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CSE PE

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I'm interested to get the CSE PE since this is the job that I've done for the past seven years and this is what I will do for many years to come. My current job does not require a PE but I want to do it for two reasons:

1. Expand knowledge in the field.

2. Be able to sign and seal documents on the side or later down in my career, i.e. after-retirement jobs like consulting, etc.

I read an article online that I cannot find now. It stated that CSE PE is a title act, not a practice act.

There is nothing online now that I can find where it explains whether or not this discipline is practice act. I would like to be able to sign eng. documents for electrical, since I also have the education and experience.

Anyone?

 
There is nothing online now that I can find where it explains whether or not this discipline is practice act. I would like to be able to sign eng. documents for electrical, since I also have the education and experience.
Anyone?
I would suggest taking the Electrical exam. All of my experience was in controls before I took the PE, and my degree was in computer engineering. I thought about taking the CSE exam because the pass rates were higher and I was qualified to take it, but the main thing that kept me from going that route was the lack of study materials. I passed the EE exam on my first pass, so I don't think it would be a problem for you.

 
I read an article online that I cannot find now. It stated that CSE PE is a title act, not a practice act.
It depends on the state. For example, in California

There are three categories of Professional Engineer licensure available in California: (1) practice act, (2) title act, and (3) authority. The practice acts are Civil, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineering. Practice act means that only a person appropriately licensed with the Board may practice or offer to practice these branches of engineering. The title acts are Agricultural, Chemical, Control System, Fire Protection, Industrial, Metallurgical, Nuclear, Petroleum, and Traffic Engineering. Title act means that only a person licensed by the Board in that branch of engineering may use the title in any manner. The authorities exist for two sub-branches of civil engineering: Structural Engineering and Geotechnical Engineering. An authority indicates a proficiency in that field greater than what is required for civil engineering licensure. Persons who pass the written examination will be issued a license in the branch of engineering for which they applied.
In Oregon, there's no such restriction:

In the state of Oregon, engineers may hold a certificate of registration in one ormore of the following disciplines:

Acoustical

Agricultural

Chemical

Civil

Control Systems

Electrical

Environmental

Fire Protection

Forest

Geotechnical

Manufacturing

Industrial

Mechanical

Metallurgical

Mining

Naval Architectural/Marine

Nuclear

Petroleum

Structural*

Traffic

Oregon Administrative Rule (OAR 820-020-0020(1)) states that registrants

shall perform only in their areas of competence. The item marked with (*)

is a specialty discipline that requires unique experience and examination in

addition to those mandated in any of the other disciplines of engineering. Refer

to OAR 820, division 40 for further detail.
So... what state?

 
Interesting. Does any other state besides California make the distinction between these three categories? I'm a bit vague what the real distinction is. Does it mean, for example, that the title of Electrical Engineer could be used by an unlicensed individual so long as he does nt practice as an Electrical Engineer?

 
Interesting. Does any other state besides California make the distinction between these three categories? I'm a bit vague what the real distinction is. Does it mean, for example, that the title of Electrical Engineer could be used by an unlicensed individual so long as he does nt practice as an Electrical Engineer?
Here's my understanding... A "Title Act" restricts the use of a title, but does not restrict the practice of the given profession. A "Practice Act" restricts the use of a title *and* the practice of the given profession. I think you'll find this is an important distinction for things like Structural Engineering:

Three types of Structural Engineering licensure exist today: * Title Act: No limitations as to what a Professional Engineer can do structurally, except as limited via existing regulations of not practicing outside one’s area of expertise;

* Partial (or Limited) Practice Act: Limits practice in certain areas of structural engineering (or certain types of structures) to licensed Structural Engineers; and

* Full Practice Act: Restricts structural engineering practice to licensed Structural Engineers.
and

Structural Engineering Practice Acts in the U.S.
Update - May 2008

On May 2, 2008, the Board of Direction of the American Society of Civil Engineers adopted a new Policy Statement entitled "Licensure and Advanced Credentialing Within the Civil Engineering Profession" in which ASCE supports post PE credentialing that attests to a Professional Engineer’s expertise in a civil engineering specialty area. Credentialing is a generic term defining the granting of a credential; for example licenses, diplomas, and/or certifications. This is the first time that ASCE takes a formal position in support of specialty licensure. The structural engineering community welcomes this position and is very pleased with this outcome. View new Policy Statement 524.

Update - March 2008

The state of Utah has recently moved legislation through their Senate and passed a new Structural Engineering Licensure bill. The new Utah bill will become law in January 2009. Utah becomes the 11th state with a S.E. act, and the 7th with a S.E. Practice Act. Utah follows the state of Washington which was also successful in getting their Structural Engineering Title Act changed to a Practice Act. This happened in April 2007 and will become effective in July 2008.

Original Article - September 2007

Current state laws regarding engineering licensure differ and often restrain trade. Historically, the first Professional Engineer (PE) license was established in Wyoming in 1907 while the first Structural Engineer (SE) license was issued in Illinois in 1915. In recent years, the Structural Engineering Institute (SEI), in collaboration with the National Council of Structural Engineering Associations (NCSEA), spearheaded the effort of promoting separate licensing for structural engineers in the U.S. Three national summits were held in 2000, 2002, and 2004 where over 50 organizations reviewed multiple models for SE licensure, evaluated examination and educational requirements, addressed the advantages and disadvantages of SE licensure, produced a series of strategies that could be used by local entities interested in pursuing SE Practice Acts, developed the rationale and reasons for limiting the practice of structural engineering to qualified engineers, and made recommendations for enactment of SE Practice Acts nation wide.

In conjunction with this effort, the National Council of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors (NCEES) adopted in 2004 the new Model Law Engineer – Structural Engineering as an added credential to structural engineers. In addition, NCSEA launched in 2003 a new certification program for structural engineers aimed at being the stepping stone to SE licensure.

Today, eleven U.S. jurisdictions have some sort of structural licensing act. Structural engineers practicing in Illinois and Hawaii have to conform to the state’s SE Practice Act. In these two states, all structures must be designed by a SE. A PE, if not licensed as a SE, is not allowed to undertake any structural engineering work. There are four other states that have adopted a limited SE Practice Act. These are California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. In these states, certain types of structures can only be designed by a licensed SE, while the remaining types of structures may be designed by a PE. For example, in California, schools, hospitals and various buildings as regulated by cities are required to be designed by a licensed SE. In Nevada, buildings greater than 3 stories or 45’ in height must be designed by a licensed SE. Finally, five other states have adopted a SE Title Act where a structural engineer can be licensed as a SE, however there is no distinction on the type of structure a PE or a SE can design. Title Acts are currently in existence in Arizona, Idaho, Nebraska, New Mexico, and Utah. To earn the title of Licensed SE, the engineer has to meet the same educational and experience requirements as for the PE, however he/she is required to take and pass examinations totaling 24 hours.

The practice of structural engineering affects the public health, safety and welfare of the public and is subject to regulations in the public interest. It is the goal of state licensing laws that only qualified persons be authorized to practice structural engineering. A practice act defines the specific type of work that a licensed engineer in that discipline can legally perform, such as the structural design of a building, bridge or other structure, along with the corresponding responsibilities and liabilities.

SEI and NCSEA support separate licensing of structural engineers. They encourage activities to achieve this goal in each state and other jurisdictions because the safety and general welfare of the public are more dependent on the skills and competence of the structural engineer than those of most other professionals, including medical doctors. It is a fact that civil engineering and structural engineering have over time become two distinct and separate disciplines, and hence each requires a specific focus and course of study with different design requirements. By ensuring that only qualified persons be authorized to practice structural engineering, structural disasters such as the 1981 Cocoa Beach building collapse in which 11 people were killed, will be avoided, if not at least minimized. In the process of enacting SE Practice Acts, SEI and NCSEA advocate the inclusion of a grandfather clause to allow engineers who were licensed by a specific date to continue to provide engineering services permitted under the old practice act licensing law. To do this, there would need to be a definite period of time during which currently licensed engineers could apply for licensing based on their current licenses and experience. Therefore, only the licensing of future engineers would be affected.

Currently, the Professional Activities Committee (PAC) of SEI, chaired by Sam A. Rihani, is actively working towards the ultimate goal of having SE Practice Acts passed in all U.S. jurisdictions. SEI-PAC works closely with local structural engineering groups interested in enacting a SE Practice Act in their state. In May of 2007, SEI-PAC drafted an ASCE Policy Statement in support of additional credentialing for engineers (including SE licensure), beyond the P.E., to be endorsed by SEI and other ASCE Institutes. The SEI Board of Governors has endorsed this draft. Concurrently, the ASCE Committee on Professional Practice (CPP) drafted another Policy Statement regarding Advanced Credentialing for civil engineers in which they promote certification and oppose discipline-specific licensing.

Needless to say these two drafts have generated much discussion among the civil engineering community, and in July and August of 2007, several ASCE Institutes and other engineering organizations gave their formal position on the subject matter. It is worth noting that the GI (Geo Institute), COPRI (Coasts, Oceans, Ports, and Rivers Institute), and CAP3 (Committee on the Academic Prerequisites for Professional Practice) of ASCE have all supported the SEI-PAC draft. Additionally, Civil Engineering Certification, Inc. (CEC) stated that they are not against discipline-specific licensure, such as SE. The National Society of Professional Engineers (NSPE), the only group that has traditionally opposed discipline-specific licensure, has indicated their support of a title act for structural engineers, but still oppose a practice act.

Given this support to the SEI-PAC draft, ASCE-CPP is currently updating their draft statement to take into account the feedback received to date from the various ASCE Institutes and engineering organizations. As a result, it is hoped that ASCE will soon be adopting a new Policy Statement which would support additional credentialing beyond the PE for civil engineers, including discipline-specific licensure and/or certification.
 
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