closed book 2020

[Swimfastalex PE]

Well, if the PE test modeled real life it would be drastically different.

1st they'd give you a problem, then you would have to call three different vendors to see if they can supply the items in a timely fashion. Don't forget the 16 different meetings needed to discuss the progress of the question. Then, 42 ******** emails later, you ask for an extension because it is an unanswerable question.

Don't forget the Permits you need to apply for and waiting for a least 45 days to hear back for MDE.

 

[Kaerous]

Don't forget the Permits you need to apply for and waiting for a least 45 days to hear back for MDE.

And then Google.  Don't forget Google.

 

[Patrick1441 PE]

Well, if the PE test modeled real life it would be drastically different.

1st they'd give you a problem, then you would have to call three different vendors to see if they can supply the items in a timely fashion. Don't forget the 16 different meetings needed to discuss the progress of the question. Then, 42 ******** emails later, you ask for an extension because it is an unanswerable question.

Also, don't forget to track your billable hours as you go in 15 minute increments and submit your expense reports before 5:00!

 

[sck P.E.]

Don't forget the Permits you need to apply for and waiting for a least 45 days to hear back for MDE.

And then the damn component would fail in test, and you'd have to wait 8-12 weeks for another design iteration ("We did FEA before we sent you the proposed design, I swear!"), and then restart the 6 week test.

All while execs are asking why you didn't finish the project early.

 

[Sooner100]

They could provide excerpts from various codes, or the entire thing, on the computer based reference manuals.  They couldn't do away with the code questions all together - the associations that produce them would lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenue from worried PE examinees who would no longer need to buy.

That's right. Electronic reference manuals -all stored on the PC. No internet connection. Also the test taker does not have to be exposed to all 80 questions. If someone does 70% or so right (cut off score is fixed). The computer can congratulate the test taker and stop the test. Also if the individual incorrectly answer 30% or so of the questions, he/she is done too with a FAIL grade. That way, most of the examinees will not have to be exposed 80 questions. NCEES will be also be better off with their test questions not being compromised. 

 

[Kaerous]

That's right. Electronic reference manuals -all stored on the PC. No internet connection. Also the test taker does not have to be exposed to all 80 questions. If someone does 70% or so right (cut off score is fixed). The computer can congratulate the test taker and stop the test. Also if the individual incorrectly answer 30% or so of the questions, he/she is done too with a FAIL grade. That way, most of the examinees will not have to be exposed 80 questions. NCEES will be also be better off with their test questions not being compromised. 

Currently they determine the cut scores after the test, so I don't see how this would work.  Also, they wouldn't have any chance to review poorly written or compromised questions.  That would be bad, real bad.  Think if you got a FAIL result halfway through the test because of a question they would have thrown out anyways.

 

[Ayerforce35]

That's right. Electronic reference manuals -all stored on the PC. No internet connection. Also the test taker does not have to be exposed to all 80 questions. If someone does 70% or so right (cut off score is fixed). The computer can congratulate the test taker and stop the test. Also if the individual incorrectly answer 30% or so of the questions, he/she is done too with a FAIL grade. That way, most of the examinees will not have to be exposed 80 questions. NCEES will be also be better off with their test questions not being compromised. 

haha, talk about adding another level of anxiety to the test, there would be some very nervous clicking going on.  Hoping that the FAIL message doesn't pop-up after you click Next.

 

[Sooner100]

Currently they determine the cut scores after the test, so I don't see how this would work.  Also, they wouldn't have any chance to review poorly written or compromised questions.  That would be bad, real bad.  Think if you got a FAIL result halfway through the test because of a question they would have thrown out anyways.

That's why the scoring policy will have to tweaked. To me it does not make sense to find out a poorly written question after the test. It should be taken care before the test. It is not fair to give a poorly written test question in a test anyway. 

 

[Sooner100]

haha, talk about adding another level of anxiety to the test, there would be some very nervous clicking going on.  Hoping that the FAIL message doesn't pop-up after you click Next.

This is not a new concept. I took my driving test (written part) this way. Yes..there will be some anxiety during the test. But, there is no waiting anxiety for two months or so. You get out of the test center and you can either start your break dance or plan for next test taking strategies. 

 

[Kaerous]

That's why the scoring policy will have to tweaked. To me it does not make sense to find out a poorly written question after the test. It should be taken care before the test. It is not fair to give a poorly written test question in a test anyway. 

I 100% agree, but I don't see them doing it.  If they missed a poor question, or the computer answer key was incorrect, a lot of people would fail.  And being kicked from the test immediately upon a failure without a chance to finish the test would cause a lot of people to have to wait another six months to retake when they would have passed.

 

[Ken PE 3.1]

3 minutes ago, Kaerous said: Currently they determine the cut scores after the test, so I don't see how this would work.  Also, they wouldn't have any chance to review poorly written or compromised questions.  That would be bad, real bad.  Think if you got a FAIL result halfway through the test because of a question they would have thrown out anyways.

That's why the scoring policy will have to tweaked. To me it does not make sense to find out a poorly written question after the test. It should be taken care before the test. It is not fair to give a poorly written test question in a test anyway. 

What is this word 'fair' you used?

 

[sck P.E.]

What is this word 'fair' you used?

That's when they give you deep-fried twinkies on a stick.

 

[Sooner100]

What is this word 'fair' you used?

in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
"the group has achieved fair and equal representation for all its members"

 

[snickerd3]

the test isn't to judge fair.  it is to judge minimal acceptable competency 

 

[sck P.E.]

minimal acceptable competency

This is the standard to which we all so desperately strive!  "Please let me be minimally acceptably competent!  Please let me be minimally acceptably competent!"

 

[Ayerforce35]

This is not a new concept. I took my driving test (written part) this way. Yes..there will be some anxiety during the test. But, there is no waiting anxiety for two months or so. You get out of the test center and you can either start your break dance or plan for next test taking strategies. 

I agree that for the CBT's you should find out sooner.  I am only waiting on CA specific seismic, which is CBT, but have to wait on NCEES to release the 8 hour to the states first.  Even though my test has noting to do with NCEES. 

 

[snickerd3]

The CBT FE exams do find out sooner...they are what 7-10 days after they take the test?

 

[Patrick1441 PE]

I agree that for the CBT's you should find out sooner.  I am only waiting on CA specific seismic, which is CBT, but have to wait on NCEES to release the 8 hour to the states first.  Even though my test has noting to do with NCEES. 

Do they release the results of the super-challenging take home test beforehand?

 

[Ayerforce35]

Do they release the results of the super-challenging take home test beforehand?

nope, all results are released after NCEES results.

 

[npcannon]

My understanding from the "school of PE" guys is that the mechanical test can "technically" be done with the FE supplied reference handbook. I used it quite a bit during the test myself. It sounded like the goal was to get away from people bringing tons of books in, provide the necessary information (charts/etc) and a supplied reference handbook. I actually think studying for the test would be pretty interesting if it were just one book. I'm not a fan of the masters requirement, but it does sort of protect the PE in a way. Once I pass, I'm all for anything that makes it harder for other people to get the PE