Thanks for your all advises and informations. I will really take these advises seriously.
I really am not against to engineering nor Pharmacy. I am just a guy who is try to make a best decision for his life. You know most of us has those moments.
if you guys don't mind I would like to bring up a posts who is going to pharmacy school right now. And just et you know please, I am not trying to prove anything in this community. I am just trying to put all the facts on the table.
One again I am not trying to prove that, your statement is wrong.
Here is his post ,I would like to share with you guys,
04-20-2009, 10:51 PM
solzont;
You're in luck! My undergrad degree was computer engineering and I worked at Intel for ~7 years. I'll be starting Pharmacy School this summer. Most importantly, you need to realize that computer engineering is not a professional degree. You'll have to work hard to leverage your projects, research, and academics to land a choice job. There's often 2-3 different interview sessions including a rigorous technical interview. I was compensated at about 60k without a graduate degree. Jobs at 80k+ will require a graduate education in CompE, masters minimum, PhD preferable if you intend on working in microarchitecture design or process engineering. The academic commitment is thus, not much different than that necessary to achieve a PharmD, and a bit cheaper to boot since your research can pay the way. The earning potential can be much higher considering your compensation package often includes stock options, discount stock purchases, and cash-based retirement accounts above and beyond your base pay. Some of the options are "protected" meaning their value doesn't drop below a floor level (aka recession-proof). That's the problem with salary statistics...they're only quoting BASE salaries for engineers and computer scientists, no stock, no cash retirement, no options. It's potentially much more, as mine was, above their base pay.
My colleagues and I have identified several downsides with CpE but don't think they're aren't any with pharmacy. As a CpE, you generally live in a cubicle at your computer, you may be on-call (manufacturing and design esp.), foreigners with your education are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of your salary (they don't have to be licensed here like Pharms do), you're job is vulnerable to economic turbulence, and CE is vital to the preservation of your career. Real CE...not what we have for pharmacy. I'm talking about learning new HDL programming languages, manufacturing techniques, and design principles...on your own. Large technology corporations like Intel have excellent internal training programs but there's no agency cracking a whip, it's your job. Of course, there's always management when you get tired of adding value to the company. Unlike the local hospitals which are flush with middle managers with little or no substantial contribution, Intel lays off middle managers in droves before they even consider one technician/engineer layoff.
Compensation is an important factor, but there are also others to consider. I was very successful at Intel, so maybe I'm not the average case. In my experience pharmacy isn't much, if any, of a pay raise if you're an accomplished CpE with an MS or PhD in the right company, I worked with several. If salary is the arbiter of your future career, how about being an MD? Nurse? Dentist? I have a strong interest in chemistry, esp. biochemistry; additionally, the personal reward I get from care-giving on a daily basis, interacting with the public, and the empowerment of knowing I can make a major difference in the quality of their lives is extremely motivating.
I'm curious how your grades are and how close you are to getting a degree in CpE? Have you done an internship or at least applied for one? Have you found a mentor to shadow or work with in CpE and Pharm? It sounds to me like your research is all 3rd hand and cash compensation based, my advice is to get out of the web and into the workplace. If you impress enough people you'll attract a good mentor to help you find out what it's really like. Good luck
Please take your time and read his post. And also her is an other post from a different Computer Engineer;
museabuse;
04-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Exact same credentials here. Graduated in '99 with computer engineering, worked for Intel ~3 years then to pharmacy school now I am a pharmacist(at least you made it to your sabbatical.... nice). because I went to a private pharmacy school I am in debt ALOT. If I stayed with Intel I would be much better off right now financially. Even though I am now making more base salary pay, you are right the benefits with Intel was far superior than pharmacy. From the time I left Intel I was able to start making money as a pharmacist within 5 years.
If you leave your engineering job making 60-70K base salary and go to a private pharmacy school, I think the break even point would be probably over 20 years. You have to take in account at least 4 years no salary while in pharmacy school and doing pre reqs. You also have to take in account loss salary from a full time job and also the 150000 dollars in debt from pharmacy school.
So if you are switching to pharmacy for the money then you better rethink your decision because it would be a long time before you see an ROI. I however am glad I made the switch. I hated being salary working 60+ hours and getting paid a salary based on 40. I hated sitting in a cubical. I hated being on call to fix software issues at 2am. I hated the red tape and butt kissing, corporate computer jobs are all about who you know and who you kiss up too. I hated all the pointless meetings that you have to attend. I hated that you could be the best programmer or worker but not get the best raise because you didn't make yourself known to random people who didn't know you but had inut into your raise. Think Office Space, that is what a computer job is like, for real.
I like the job I have, and as of right now there is job security, not like in the computer field where they will cut you loose to pay an Indian 1/8 the pay in a second. However things are changing and not sure if the job security is a for sure thing, have to see how things pan out in the next few years. All I can say is I am happier now with my job than I was and that is what counts even though I am in financially worse shape.
Anyways if you have any questions feel free to ask me.
and here is the same Engineer's answer;
solzont
04-13-2009, 04:52 PM
Thanks for your insight Muse, it's nice to see a fellow former Intel person on these boards. Thanks for backing me up on the salary, it's very real. I'd swear people think I'm lying when I start my "Why do you want to be a pharmacist" conversation without any reference to salary. You did touch on a couple things that I didn't include in my post. Specifically, the work hours and politics. Yes, I also worked about 54-60 hours per week, but I really enjoyed my job under good-great management so I was OK with it. You do need to make yourself visible to decision makers outside your department, productive skip level meetings and strong projects with a large multi-group scope that save/make lots of money are very important for long term success. If you're a pharm at a large hospital, you may find the same rules of politics apply as well...it's all the people, not the job per se.
Anytime you add 10's to 100's of people to an organization the juice (see Stephen Covey's book about trust) can start to flow like oil in winter. It takes good relationships among people to get it moving, but it can still be done with real work. Those who don't want to do the work lean hard on personality and ass-kissing to try and get around the work. The problem for most is navigating the politics and having the will/endurance to market yourself and your ideas to strangers repetitively. It's like applying to 50 different graduate schools all with different applications and essay nuances while doing your job. All the while your completing your assigned work, but that won't get you raises or promotions. Doing your job is not enough, you must go above and beyond. In fact, it's your own initiative-based brain children that do it. It goes something like this...work hard, master the elements of a problem/system, get idea, gather data, process data, gather more data, interpret data, bounce interpretation/project off peers and bosses, tweak implementation, repeat 10x. Oh wait, you new boss doesn't feel the project is "value added", your data is flawed, nobody cares, the strategic direction of the company has changed, or (the best) a jealous coworker is erecting barriers to your success (woot!).
Quartel is mostly right about the 40's-50's comment. As you get older, it's imperative you constantly keep up with technology so you can compete with the newest crop of talent or you'll be indirectly forced into management or less desirable position within the company. If you're a good primary engineer, you can still be viable into your 40's and 50's but, most likely will move into some type of project management or strategic role eventually. Many secondary or lower engineers eventually opt for the clock-in clock-out, minimum work does it, I'd like to spend more time with my family route.
Computer engineering and/or software is a tall challenge to say the least. When people see lazy pharmacists (yes, yes...they're not *all* lazy, but breakneck demand has dropped the standard significantly) making $100k+ for little work or getting arrested for drug theft at one pharmacy only to find a new job two days later at Walmart, it's tough to sell a demanding and unpredictable technology career. That being said, there's a lot of folks at Intel and Microsoft on the corporate welfare program too.
One of our favorite "anger management" websites, as employees, was this one.
I'm glad to hear you're happier Muse, that's really what we're all after eh? Our little slice
I'll live out of a van if I have to lol....tomato (ketchup) soup anyone?
Here is in the same community an other engineer;
loveyoursmile
04-20-2009, 03:12 PM
Hi Guys,
I am another fellow of integrated electronics company. I got my EECS BS in top engineering school and landed a design job at the company ~3yrs ago. Yes, my total compensation now is more than just the base salary. And the same thing here with politics. I hate it. I am considering a career change to pharmacist now. solzont and museabuse, you guy make me feel much better now that i am not alone.
if you take a look at and read their statements ,maybe they all have some rights ,according to them.
if you like to read the all post about these conversation , you can go on this website
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=618470
as I said before , All of your advise are really important and I am thinking about your advise very seriously.
Thanks very much for taking your time and giving me a hand.