CFLs

[Capt Worley PE]

I used to be a huge proponent of CFLs, but now I despise the things. They don't put out enough light, they take too long to reach operating temperature, the light they produces reduces drastically over time, and they don't last as long as we were told. I'm replacing them with the old incandescents, except in a few always on locations.

I guess in the future, I'll be forced to buy foreign bulbs.

Haven't experienced the LEDs yet; I hope they don't turn out to be a huge disappointment in the long run, like CFLs did.

 

[humner]

We keep buying the incandescents. At least where and when we can find them. I don't like that CFLs from cradle to grave are not very "green", especially how I see people throw them away now.

 

[cableguy]

Hazardous materials, expensive, depend on components that don't take too kindly to heat (like big capacitors inside), cheap ones give off really crappy light.

My work bought me a desk lamp (because they're too cheap to fix the ballasts in the office lighting in our cube farm - we're moving buildings in the not too distant future, so the wheels are gonna fall off this one...). Anyhow, the lamp came with a cheap CFL. The light it emitted was uncomfortably white. It was like strobe light white. I found it hard to read under. It was (I could tell) a cheap Chinese bulb, probably the cheapest bulb available.

So I wandered the building and found some GE bulbs. They give off a much softer, much better color light... but I'm sure they're more expensive. The color is much closer to incandescent. Anyhow, the lamp tipped over one day, and the tube fell out of the base of the bulb. Inside were some electronics, along with at least one big electrolytic capacitor.

Being an electronics nerd like I am, I've seen my share of blowed up electrolytic caps. These days you're lucky to get a couple years out of cheap electronics before cap tops start popping. Putting caps like this in the base of a bulb where heat is going to build up is no bueno. CFL bulbs are just entirely wasteful compared to incandescents. Too many parts to fail, more expensive, toxic mercury inside... just not worth it IMO.

That said, I'll be trying LED's whenever I see the price point come to the tempting price point, but I just want to be sure that the color and dispersion pattern are right first. Lots of variables with LEDs.

 

[OSUguy98]

We bought a few LED bulbs the other day to put outside in our porch lights... the CFLs we had take a day and a half to get bright when it's cold... the LEDs are instant... and they put out about the same amount of light (compared to the CFLs we had)... but they still only put out 450 lumens, where an incandescent is usually at least twice that... I'm hoping the LED bulbs end up getting cheaper over time (we bought one at $10... and went to get another and it was $18)... we tried them inside and were happy with the color and the amount of light (at least for a living room side table light)

 

[wilheldp_PE]

In my line of work, I have seen more than on failed CFL bulb, and the most common mode of failure (as mentioned by cableguy, is the electrolytic capacitors). Not only does heat make them fail, but so does vibration. Many CFLs come with a warning not to install them in ceiling fan fixtures due to the vibration.

As to the longevity issue, both CFLs and LED bulbs will fall shorter than expected in this category due to the way they were tested. Sure, you can get 10,000 hours out of an LED bulb when the heat is properly dissipated and it isn't cycled on and off. But during real-world testing environments, they do not last nearly long enough to justify their initial cost difference.

Incandescents are terribly inefficient, but they more than make up for it in low initial cost.

 

[FusionWhite]

I think the CFL is a piss poor replacement for the NFL. I mean come on...football...IN CANADA?!? Whos heard of such a thing. I really hope the NFL gets its **** together.

Thats what we're talking about? Right?

 

[navyasw02]

If it wasnt for the chemicals, I'd be fine with them. I dont really care that it takes an extra 30 seconds to warm up or if the color temperature is off by a few kelvins. I just want to be able to see and have cheaper electric bills. That said, I'll replace them with LEDs when they burn out if the price warrants it.

 

[snickerd3]

HATE HATE HATE THEM!!!!!!

First, it flourenscent light. Since having minisnick I have become very sensitivie to flourescent lighting. VERY BAD

Wrong color, takes forever to turn on.

They don't last anywhere near as long as they say. I bought the kind labeled specifically for ceiling fan and 2 of the 4 blew within a month. The others lasted less than a year. The ones in the non-moving ceiling light are still ok, but not really a fan of the color.

the disposal issue, yes stores take them back, but we are over an hour away from a store that takes them back for proper disposal. Even though the amount of mercury is small it is still mercury in landfills which even just one getting into the sample taken by the landfill for complaince can cause huge problems for the landfill.

We will be being incandencent from now on for as long as we can, which should be awhile because most of our lights have the tiny sockets which require the fancy bulbs and those are exempt from the rule.

 

[Dleg]

I think CFLs are just fine. Gotta make sure you get the "warm" color temperature, though, to replicate the incandescent effect.

You guys just wait till you're paying ~$0.40 per kWh like we are. You'll do anything to save power. We were burning ~2400 kWh before, when the price was $0.12 or so. We've got it down to ~1100 kWh per month now through replacing all our lights with CFLs, timing our airconditioning use, replacing aircons as they fail with new 13 SEER units, and (the bad part) getting rid of our water heater.

I haven't seen a decent LED bulb yet, though. Our Ace Hardware stores stocked some decorative bulbs in the 20 watt range, and I picked up a couple and they were hopelessly dim. I haven't seen anything brighter for sale around here yet, but it seems to be the best solution once brighter bulbs become more commonly available.

 

[chaosiscash]

I've done a little research on the ESL bulbs that are in development (www.vu1corporation.com), but I'm not sure about the pricing, and they have been very slow to market. I'd like to pick one up if the A bulb ever comes out, just to see how they work.

 

[Road Guy]

you know it seems like the ones made 4-5 years ago are much better, brighter then the ones today, maybe there more mass developed / used and thats effecting the quality.. I had some in the garage for 8+ years that are still there, and the ones I buy these days are not lasting a year..

I put dimmer switches in the basement (about 14 can lights) and although they do sell CFL lights for dimmers / they dont work near as well as regular lights... those damn dimmable CFL lights are about $20 / EA!!!!

 

[Supe]

I hate the size of the CFL's. The ones Duke sent me seem brighter than the incandescents at a lower wattage, but, the stupid things stick out way past the light fixtures. The light color was fine (very white), but the damn thing was so harsh to look at I had to take them down. I'll find somewhere to put them, but only because they were free.

 

[Dleg]

^You may have a point. Almost all the CFLs in my house are ~5-6 years old now... I've only recently had to replace a few with the new types. I hope they aren't as bad as you say....

What the hell is an ESL bulb?

 

[cableguy]

I would bet that now (as opposed to 8 years ago) they are trying harder to bring costs down, in order to compete with the cheap Chinese bulbs - so that has caused a drop in quality.

8 years ago, CFLs weren't as mainstream, so they inherently had a higher price. Now, CFL's are darn near "the law", so the price HAS to come down. You can drop price a lot easier by dropping quality versus actual improvements in processes and efficiency.

And how many people really keep track of "when" they replaced that bulb on the porch anyway? Did I replace it last year, or 3 years ago? And what brand did I buy, or was it just a 6-pack of something on sale at Home Depot? Even then, a manufacturer can change the name/packaging of the bulb (rebranding) without changing anything else. I have a feeling it's all a shell game.

 

[roadwreck]

I'm perfectly happy with the ones I have. I don't put them everywhere, but I have them in a few lights in the house that are on the most. I just had to replace the first CFL bulb I ever installed. That one had been in use since 2002. I have some in the outdoor lights at my front door which are on a timer and come on for 4 hours every single night. They've been out there for 5 years with no issues.

If you get the "warm" colored ones the light they give off really isn't much different than an incandescent bulb IMO. They don't get as bright as some incandescent bulb, but I'm not using them as a spot light, just general purpose lighting.

I don't use them in any lamp that you can see the bulb, although I heard they are starting to make CFL's with a cover bulb, which just serves to give the appearance of an incandescent bulb.

 

[chaosiscash]

What the hell is an ESL bulb?

From Vu1's website (granted its marketing stuff, but there is more in depth info on the website):

Electron Stimulated Luminescence™ (ESL) Lighting Technology is an entirely new, energy efficient lighting technology. It uses accelerated electrons to stimulate phosphor to create light, making the surface of the bulb “glow”. ESL technology creates the same light quality as an incandescent but is up to 70% more energy efficient, lasting up to 5 times longer than incandescent and contributing to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. There is no use of the neurotoxin Mercury (Hg) in the lighting process.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

OK, I'm one of those rare anal people that DOES track when I replace the CFLs, since they cost so much.

My first one, always on in the basement, cost 20 bucks, was two peice, and lasted five years. The one I replaced it with lasted three. The current one has been down there almost a year.

The ones that get cut on and off daily, last less than a year, but start to dim appreciably after 3-6 months.

 

[roadwreck]

OK, I'm one of those rare anal people that DOES track when I replace the CFLs, since they cost so much.
My first one, always on in the basement, cost 20 bucks, was two peice, and lasted five years. The one I replaced it with lasted three. The current one has been down there almost a year.

The ones that get cut on and off daily, last less than a year, but start to dim appreciably after 3-6 months.

really? I've never noticed any problems with any of mine.

Sure it's not a wiring problem that is shortening the life of the bulbs? I've only had one CFL quit working, and it was 8 years old when it died.

 

[snickerd3]

OK, I'm one of those rare anal people that DOES track when I replace the CFLs, since they cost so much.
My first one, always on in the basement, cost 20 bucks, was two peice, and lasted five years. The one I replaced it with lasted three. The current one has been down there almost a year.

The ones that get cut on and off daily, last less than a year, but start to dim appreciably after 3-6 months.

really? I've never noticed any problems with any of mine.

Sure it's not a wiring problem that is shortening the life of the bulbs? I've only had one CFL quit working, and it was 8 years old when it died.

I've had the same issues at two different houses...one almost new and the other not so new.

 

[snickerd3]

I'm perfectly happy with the ones I have. I don't put them everywhere, but I have them in a few lights in the house that are on the most. I just had to replace the first CFL bulb I ever installed. That one had been in use since 2002. I have some in the outdoor lights at my front door which are on a timer and come on for 4 hours every single night. They've been out there for 5 years with no issues. If you get the "warm" colored ones the light they give off really isn't much different than an incandescent bulb IMO. They don't get as bright as some incandescent bulb, but I'm not using them as a spot light, just general purpose lighting.

I don't use them in any lamp that you can see the bulb, although I heard they are starting to make CFL's with a cover bulb, which just serves to give the appearance of an incandescent bulb.

Having a color choice in town is at the mercy of the walmart purchasing agent. Haven't seen a Warm CFL at the store ever. Huge difference too. We bought the previous bunch (warmish) at Menards while we visiting somewhere away from home. We needed bulbs badly as 3 of 4 had burned out. The walmart didn't have any small based regular bulbs (frosted/white) except for the CFL. I had bought a package and OMG the light was brutal and way too different from the rest of the bulbs in the room.