CA Reference Needed for Exam

[peat337]

Hey guys,

I am currently looking for work and have an interesting question. I have searched the forum and was unable to find a clear cut answer so I wanted to ask the question. After reading the FAQ from the CA PE board I am more confused then ever about the PE References needed. I am an EE and have already worked in two position under PE's, and would still need two more PE's to recommend me. I am looking for work but always believed that my experience needed to fall under a PE but after reading their answer to the question I am confused whether a supervisor would be able to recommend me. I was wondering what your take is, so let me know what you think as this will be influential to where I apply for work.

This is taken directly from their FAQ:

ELECTRICAL and MECHANICAL ENGINEERFor electrical and mechanical engineer applicants who have worked in

situations where they were not exempt from all licensing requirements,

and for experience which has occurred in California, the reference forms

must be signed by licensed engineers authorized to practice in the branch

in which the applicant is applying.

In California, electrical and mechanical engineering work performed by

employees of the Federal Government, and employees of manufacturing,

mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial

corporations is exempt, and thus, such employees may serve as

references whether or not they are licensed as long as they are qualified

to appraise the technical competency of the applicant.

Typical examples of exempt employers would be aerospace companies

such as Boeing, or McDonnell Douglas; public utilities such as San Diego

Gas & Electric or P.G.&E.; manufacturers of electrical or mechanical

equipment such as Allen Bradley, Square D, Trane or Carrier, etc.

Examples of non-exempt employers are consulting electrical or

mechanical engineering firms and state and local governments.

Also, since licensed civil engineers are authorized to practice

supplementary electrical and mechanical engineering, such engineers

may serve as references.26

If the applicant has worked in a non-exempt situation, and if the applicant

does not know or has not worked with sufficient licensed engineers in his

or her field to be able to procure the minimum number of appropriately

licensed references, the applicant can solicit any appropriately licensed

engineer to review her/his work samples (drawings, calculations, reports,

etc.). Based on that review and a discussion with the applicant, such an

engineer can then serve as a reference. The foregoing procedure is only

permissible for supplementary references, and it is based on the

assumption that the applicant's primary reference for an engagement is a

licensed supervisor. If all else fails, the applicant should contact the

Board for instructions on how to obtain licensed references. In no case,

however, will references from unlicensed persons or references not

licensed in the applicant's branch of engineering be accepted in lieu of

references from appropriately licensed engineers, when the requirement

for having licensed references applies (i.e., when the applicant has been

working in a non-exempt area). Persons working in California in industry

or otherwise covered by the exemptions need not submit references from

licensed engineers, but must submit sufficient references to cover the

required period of experience. The determination as to whether or not the

employment is exempt is based on whether or not the employer is a

corporation and usually, but not always, whether or not the primary

business activity of the corporation is the making of a product.

Unlicensed persons or persons not licensed in the applicant's branch of

engineering, who are completing reference forms, should indicate their

educational background or other information to signify their engineering

qualifications (see Question 7, for more information).

Thanks a lot for your input.

 

[Trev... P.E.]

Have the positions you've had & are looking at been in an exempt industry?

 

[peat337]

I have worked in exempt industries and will be looking for work in the same type of manufacturing fields.

 

[Trev... P.E.]

Well if you've worked solely in manufacturing, it seems pretty straight forward to me... I imagine the fact that some of your references will be licensed will certainly be in your favor though. Double check with the board, but this is how I read it:

ELECTRICAL and MECHANICAL ENGINEERFor electrical and mechanical engineer applicants who have worked in

situations where they were not exempt from all licensing requirements,

and for experience which has occurred in California, the reference forms

must be signed by licensed engineers authorized to practice in the branch

in which the applicant is applying.

In California, electrical and mechanical engineering work performed by

employees of the Federal Government, and employees of manufacturing,

mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial

corporations is exempt, and thus, such employees may serve as

references whether or not they are licensed as long as they are qualified

to appraise the technical competency of the applicant.

Typical examples of exempt employers would be aerospace companies

such as Boeing, or McDonnell Douglas; public utilities such as San Diego

Gas & Electric or P.G.&E.; manufacturers of electrical or mechanical

equipment such as Allen Bradley, Square D, Trane or Carrier, etc.

Examples of non-exempt employers are consulting electrical or

mechanical engineering firms and state and local governments.

Also, since licensed civil engineers are authorized to practice

supplementary electrical and mechanical engineering, such engineers

may serve as references.26

If the applicant has worked in a non-exempt situation, and if the applicant

does not know or has not worked with sufficient licensed engineers in his

or her field to be able to procure the minimum number of appropriately

licensed references, the applicant can solicit any appropriately licensed

engineer to review her/his work samples (drawings, calculations, reports,

etc.). Based on that review and a discussion with the applicant, such an

engineer can then serve as a reference. The foregoing procedure is only

permissible for supplementary references, and it is based on the

assumption that the applicant's primary reference for an engagement is a

licensed supervisor. If all else fails, the applicant should contact the

Board for instructions on how to obtain licensed references. In no case,

however, will references from unlicensed persons or references not

licensed in the applicant's branch of engineering be accepted in lieu of

references from appropriately licensed engineers, when the requirement

for having licensed references applies (i.e., when the applicant has been

working in a non-exempt area). Persons working in California in industry

or otherwise covered by the exemptions need not submit references from

licensed engineers, but must submit sufficient references to cover the

required period of experience. The determination as to whether or not the

employment is exempt is based on whether or not the employer is a

corporation and usually, but not always, whether or not the primary

business activity of the corporation is the making of a product.

Unlicensed persons or persons not licensed in the applicant's branch of

engineering, who are completing reference forms, should indicate their

educational background or other information to signify their engineering

qualifications (see Question 7, for more information).

 

[peat337]

Trev - Thanks for the reply. I guess my civil friends really scared me into their way of thinking and for them you need the work under a PE. It always helps when you have another person spell it out for you though.

The topic really came up when I was on an interview and I asked the owner if there were any PE at the company and he said no but was very interested in me being able to become a PE.

Do you think a small company that manufacturers control systems for various municipal services such as wastewater and recycling would benefit having a PE and if so, would this eventually lead to a pay increase once I become a PE?

 

[Trev... P.E.]

Do you think a small company that manufacturers control systems for various municipal services such as wastewater and recycling would benefit having a PE and if so, would this eventually lead to a pay increase once I become a PE?

I don't think they would see any direct benefit.. They aren't "billing out" the hours that you spend on any particular project. That said manufacturers and/or distributors of engineered equipment need sales of their products to survive and prosper. That's what they do. Marketing the fact that they have a PE on-site designing the equipment could sway some customers to buy from you over the other guys. THAT may have some benefit to them.

Once you get your PE it is certainly time to sit down with the (potential) boss and talk turkey, or promotion, or both. If you are good at your job and they don't want to lose you then you might see a raise. You will certainly be in a good position to change companies if nothing comes of the discussion, and I imagine they would recognize that and offer at least something.

 

[Trev... P.E.]

Another thought, and I'm not sure if they were considering this or not, but I would personally take on the financial cost of getting the PE yourself so that you can have that discussion without them saying "well we PAID for the PE, so there's your raise." ...

 

[peat337]

Thanks, that is a good point. I always felt that if you let employers pay for some things like examination they would hold it over your head.