Fluvial
The Ditch Witch
Nice ****ys, Dleg.
Oh, and great post too.
Oh, and great post too.
Help Support Professional Engineer & PE Exam Forum:
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Who doesn't like tower cranes?
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
Actually, I screwed that up. They don't use tower cranes in Hong Kong. They use bamboo scaffolding. It's crazy to see that stuff built up to over 100 stories.
That joke came from Chicago or NYC or something.
CivE Bricky
Well-known member
Me too!
I knew a woman engineer who went to that work environment in Texas in the early 80's. She was asian (rare) and a woman (unheard of) and found the good ol' boys appreciated originals and mavericks and just gave her her own category in their own minds....she did great and had lots of fun. If she had ever crossed paths with your former coworker, they might have compared notes....to your coworker's benefit.
I think largely you get what you expect...but on the other hand, a lack of other women (or short stays) is usually a bad sign. Being too sensitive loses you the discretionary information and friendly tips that adds up to something significant. Someone I work with now goes in for the kill and reports to the boss whenever someone slips up a little (sticking up for herself!)....and as a result, many people choose not to give her "heads up" or extra info and she feels like "people just don't like me".....If she'd just chill a little I think she'd enjoy work much more.
I caused a stink a few years ago when I attended a student professional society meeting and later followed up with their faculty advisor. I let the advisor know that I found I was behaving differently toward the women that attended and were dressed either in revealing (in-style show the belly) clothing or looked like they were going to a party, with cleavage or clubbing clothes. I discounted them and didn't make any effort to connect professionally--treated them as if they were there for the food or to be dates, not to network. I realized how I'd behaved later and asked around to see if my reaction was unique - and it wasn't. After the event, I attempted to point out through their advisor that they should know what reaction they were sending to people who were no longer college students and to consider if they were OK with that. (I didn't tell them how to dress....) What really struck me was that all the males hit the exact right note and conveyed they were serious about careers by what they choose to wear. I didn't want the females to miss out just cause they didn't know any better.
Good going!
Wolverine
Uncanny Pompadour
Fluvial
The Ditch Witch
^^ Party pooper !!
G
Guest
Hmmm ... I am wondering about the rating.
Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a stacker crane rather than a tower crane for this case?
JR
Chucktown PE
Well-known member
Sorry I missed this FLBuff. As most of you know I was in the doldrums for a while in this department. I found a few things helped.
1. Planned some alone time for us. We had a romantic weekend away together, date nights, etc. We couldn't really afford it but we needed it. This is probably wrong but I looked at it as being a LOT cheaper than a divorce. Not to say we would have gotten a divorce had I not done those things but occasionally we need to "invest" in our marriage.
2. I found out she wan't feeling to good about herself. Her body shape changed a little after our 2nd was born and even though she lost all the baby weight she didn't feel young and hot any more. I still think she looks great and the occasional well placed compliment seemed to give her a lot more confidence.
3. We got into a rut of putting the kids to bed and both flopping down in the living room to watch TV. We would talk very little, I would fall asleep in the chair and she would fall asleep on the couch and we would wake up at 11:30, get in the bed and the next interaction we had would be in the morning when I was getting ready for work and the kids were awake. This is a constant struggle because after a long day at work I need some down time but now we try to go for a walk after dinner with the kids (and we get some time to dialogue) or we go sit on the back porch and talk without the TV. I found that a couple of nights of this really make our relationship better and that leads to “fringe benefits”.
4. My wife likes back rubs. But she doesn’t like them if she knows she is going to have to put out every time she gets one. So I try to surprise her every now and again. She’s usually in the mood after one anyway but if not I’ve earned brownie points so win-win.
5. Occasionally I'll suprise her by cooking a nice romantic meal on Friday or Saturday night after the kids go to bed or start the bath tub up and suprise her with some champagne. Sort of a date night for after the kids are in bed. Those both tend to make her very happy. And the occasional bouquet of flowers that I pick up on the way home does the same.
I’m certainly no expert but the main thing I am learning is that sex shouldn’t be the goal. Having a healthy relationship is the goal and the sex will follow. I probably lost my man card in all this but I will say that our sex life has gotten much better. Some of it was due to some of the advice I got here.
Chucktown PE
Well-known member
Chucktown - could you talk to my husband??
You know that brings up another point, I think a lot of these issues get swept under the rug and I'm not sure why. The woman often keeps these feeling to herself when if she'd just say, "It would really make me feel good if you did ......" instead of hoping by chance that the man will jump through hoops x, a, c, y, r, t, and o in that particular order (which almost never happens).
I finally got frustrated enough where I made my wife tell me, and even then she gave me a couple of clues and insights in to what was going on. Even then, most of it I had to figure out on my own.
Road Guy
Well-known member
I think your man card is safe, you didnt mention scrapbooking!
probably pretty good points to be honest, summer has been great without all the... get up, throw kids on bus, run to work, pick kids up, run to baseball,scouts, etc, rush home eat, baths, etc, etc, etc, I am really dreading next week when school starts because it has been fairly relaxing and has helped our relationship by not having all the hustle and bustle
probably pretty good points to be honest, summer has been great without all the... get up, throw kids on bus, run to work, pick kids up, run to baseball,scouts, etc, rush home eat, baths, etc, etc, etc, I am really dreading next week when school starts because it has been fairly relaxing and has helped our relationship by not having all the hustle and bustle
klk
Well-known member
Chucktown, your previous points are right on target. You seem to grasp what so many men don't get.
Lets treat it like a points system, and while you might get 1 point for doing something when specifically asked, you get bonus points (lets say 3 points) for doing them without specifically being asked to do it, but she had to drop several hints to get you to see she wanted it. Then, you get super duper bonus points when you do something for her when it's least expected and a total surpise. Then, lets say it takes a certain number of points to get the woman to have sex (the number of points required depends on the woman, her mood, her self image, etc which can be positively/negatively changed depending on the man's actions). Once you have sex, the points drop down to zero and you start over. The more often you perform random acts of kindness towards your wife, the more often she will want to reciprocate.
I fully admit I think its irrational for us to expect you to read our minds and know what we want, but we can't help it if its the way we feel (for most women, sex is directly tied to feelings). On the other hand, it seems like guys knew what to do when dating a girl to get them into bed (I'll call it "courting"), but those actions stop once you say "I do" because the husband thinks that he "deserves" sex anytime since he's now married. Funny how the sex stops once the courting stops . . .
However, I disagree with the notion that a woman has to come out and say exactly what they/we want. Doing things unexpectedly and without being asked makes you seem considerate and caring to her needs (back rubs, romantic dinners, bubble baths, etc), so she's more likely to be considerate and caring to your needs (sex). If we had to tell you to do those things to make us happy, then it makes it look like all you care about is your needs (sex). When you tell a woman that your needs aren't being met, yes we feel bad, but our needs still aren't being met and it makes it look like all you care about is you.
Lets treat it like a points system, and while you might get 1 point for doing something when specifically asked, you get bonus points (lets say 3 points) for doing them without specifically being asked to do it, but she had to drop several hints to get you to see she wanted it. Then, you get super duper bonus points when you do something for her when it's least expected and a total surpise. Then, lets say it takes a certain number of points to get the woman to have sex (the number of points required depends on the woman, her mood, her self image, etc which can be positively/negatively changed depending on the man's actions). Once you have sex, the points drop down to zero and you start over. The more often you perform random acts of kindness towards your wife, the more often she will want to reciprocate.
I fully admit I think its irrational for us to expect you to read our minds and know what we want, but we can't help it if its the way we feel (for most women, sex is directly tied to feelings). On the other hand, it seems like guys knew what to do when dating a girl to get them into bed (I'll call it "courting"), but those actions stop once you say "I do" because the husband thinks that he "deserves" sex anytime since he's now married. Funny how the sex stops once the courting stops . . .
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TouchDown
Is it Friday yet?
Chuck / klk - you're right that doing nice/caring things for one another (and it goes both ways) is important in keeping the fire going, but I'm a guy - I'm going to tell you what I think... no beatin' around the bush (so to speak). I'm sure if you read my earlier post, you can tell that this is a sore subject. Every individual is complex and everyone has their own history which feeds into thoughts and feelings about how a relationship should be handled.
I understand klk where you're coming from... but, knowing that someone is "keeping score", ie. points, is pretty rediculous. If sex has anything to do with feelings like you say most women feel (and I happen to think it's a more emotional experience than my wife), then there wouldn't be an "if you do this... then you get that". I consider that just as one sided and selfish as a person who's "just in it for the sex" - a person who's "just in it only if they get x,y,and z and keeping score in their head.
If you're in a loving and caring relationship all that good stuff that makes a marriage work (doing nice and caring things for each other) should come naturally, but with effort (believe me I understand there is effort required). Agreed, ruts can occur, but give me a break - points system. I think your points description is an oversimplification of a very complex relationship that for each couple is a little different. Points. That kind of pisses me off. The purpose of a trusting and loving relationship is to have the ability to not keep score, and love each other despite your faults.
Maybe it was just a bad example of describing how important that being thoughtful to your spouse is... from that standpoint, the lack of a satisfying sexual relationship can just be an indication of real problems that couples need to discuss openly and freely and talk about how they may be feeling underappreciated, etc. If you can't talk with each other about these things, then get someone to mediate, like a therapist, who can help you work through issues.
Fact is, if you are with this person forever, that looks fade, bodies falter, life is short and when it comes down to it, sex may be "important", but if it's the foundation of a relationship - then that marriage won't get far.
Fluvial
The Ditch Witch
Although I've known some people who actually *do* seem to keep track of 'points', the way I read klk's post, she was just using it as an example. Perhaps a better way to put it would be a 'good will' bank, 'cause what each partner is doing (when they are being considerate and supporting each other) is creating a warm fuzzy feeling in the other one. Those good feelings, if kept alive by frequent positive interactions, build up into a 'good will' bank. That keeps each partner looking at the other in a positive light; keeps the woman feeling 'wanted' and keeps her wanting to be 'close' to her husband; and therefore is conducive to a good sex life.
That knife cuts both ways; in a perfect world, the woman should be supporting/encouraging her husband too. One of the things I've learned over time is to try to keep an upbeat attitude about my hubby. That is, to think of his pluses rather than his minuses. If you start thinking negative things about the other person, soon you will convince yourself that he's not lovable.
Another thing is to communicate about it; like Chuck describes, he was sucessful in getting his wife to tell him about her needs. If one partner is uncommunicative, the other may think 'he/she doesn't care'. Or if one partner isn't getting their needs met, they may tell themselves "well I don't care about that'. And one day they wake up and find out 'I don't care' has come true - they no longer care about the marriage.
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I got kind of worked up about the points thing, too, when I first read it. After my experiences with a few girlfriends in the mainland, the whole "keeping score" thing seemed to me to have somehow become institutionalized among American women as a perfectly acceptable rationalization of selfishness.
But then I re-read klk's post and I think she was just trying to explain it in a way that made engineering sense. Even with more evenly-tempered Asian and Pacific Islander women, like my wife, it still goes a long way to do the things klk suggests. Point system or not. I just happen to also get the benefits of having the same treatment in reverse, on a much more regular basis... :eyebrows:
But then I re-read klk's post and I think she was just trying to explain it in a way that made engineering sense. Even with more evenly-tempered Asian and Pacific Islander women, like my wife, it still goes a long way to do the things klk suggests. Point system or not. I just happen to also get the benefits of having the same treatment in reverse, on a much more regular basis... :eyebrows:
