April 2017 Civil PE: Sturctures - Worried :/

[mnguy88]

We have a little over a month left until the April PE exam.  I've chosen to do the structures depth, but I am starting to really worry because I do not know enough. 

Here's a bit about me, I have a general Civil background but I do utility engineer design.  There isn't a depth that really fits what I do, maybe construction?  However, I took a few structural courses in college and structures is the most interesting topic for me, so I went ahead with structures. However, I've been hearing that structures is the hardest depth and it's still is difficult even for those who do it for work every day to pass the exam. I'm starting to really worry now that I chose the wrong depth. 

Can anyone assure me I didn't make a mistake?  Or if there's anyone in my shoes where what you do for work is not at all similar to any of the depths?  It'll also be good to get someone who is a structural engineer, their perspective on someone who isn't a structures guy at all but taking the structures depth.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[ptatohed]

We have a little over a month left until the April PE exam.  I've chosen to do the structures depth, but I am starting to really worry because I do not know enough. 

Here's a bit about me, I have a general Civil background but I do utility engineer design.  There isn't a depth that really fits what I do, maybe construction?  However, I took a few structural courses in college and structures is the most interesting topic for me, so I went ahead with structures. However, I've been hearing that structures is the hardest depth and it's still is difficult even for those who do it for work every day to pass the exam. I'm starting to really worry now that I chose the wrong depth. 

Can anyone assure me I didn't make a mistake?  Or if there's anyone in my shoes where what you do for work is not at all similar to any of the depths?  It'll also be good to get someone who is a structural engineer, their perspective on someone who isn't a structures guy at all but taking the structures depth.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Sturctures scare me too. 

Actual, the depth topic is Structural, not Structures.

</end giving you a hard time>

Teasing aside, here's my answer.  There is no topic that is universally harder or easier than another, so forget about that.  And none of us work in a field that perfectly lines up with any of the five Civil PE exam depth modules, so forget about that.  I am certain that any of us could pass the PE under any of the depth modules, with the correct preparation.  My point is, once you pick one, I think you should hit it with everything you've got - and conquer.  You can do it.  Changing depth modules is very inefficient as it wastes a lot of time and money so, unless there is a very compelling reason, I'd suggest you stick with Structural.  Which leads me to a question for you.  You did not mention your study/preparation regimen.  Up to this point, what has been your (honest) study procedure/schedule? 

You can do it.  Good luck. 

 

[mnguy88]

Lol. After I posted, I realized I wrote "structures" not structural. 

My study regime has been okay, not the best, but okay.  I only started studying in January once my company okayed and allowed me to purchase all the study materials.  I would say I study about 15-20 hours a week. I bought every workbook there is from PPI. However, after reading reviews, only a few I have been working out of that I feel helps the most.  I've been working NCEES practice exams and the Structural Practice Depth Exam from PPI.  I am still uncomfortable because there are so much materials to cover.  I chose structural because out of all the depths, structural is the only topic I would take the time to learn even though I'll probably never use it in my line of work.  In college, I took Structural Analysis I & II, steel design, and wood design. I'm relearning a lot, but have to learn concrete and more.  It's just hard familiarizing myself with codes and the lingo for some of these problems.  It just scares me that even structural engineers can't pass their depth exam.  How can a non structural who's been out of college for 5 years learn everything in 3 months and pass?  

 

[ptatohed]

Maybe you can consider a review class.  It would be too late for April but you could for October if it came to that.  My advice is to keep doing what you are doing.  Follow the NCEES syllabus carefully and study all (but only) the topics found there.  And change your doubt.... think positively, not negatively.  Plenty of examinees - structural engineers and non-structural engineers such as yourself - successfully pass this exam.  And so can you.  Best of luck.   

 

[gpoli111]

As a structural engineer myself and one taking the April 2017 exam here's what I can say from studying so far.

I started by reading throughly through the Geotech and Structures sections of the CERM, highlighting important parts, writing helpful notes on how I understood topics as I read them and doing the example problems. After I finished that I sat down 3 saturdays ago and took the NCEES Structures depth practice exam and timed it just like exam day. I found the morning to be rather easy using only the CERM as a reference. The afternoon I found to be considerably more difficult in the complexity of the problems. I scored a 73% (58/80) and found at least 4 problems that I should have gotten right if it weren't for a calculation error or misreading what the question was asking for. So I feel pretty good going forward learning from those few mistakes. Since then I've been going through every problem in the practice exam ensuring I can solve each problem without glancing at the solution at all. I feel the structures depth would be very difficult for anyone who does not do ground-up building design using all of the types of common building materials. So many of the questions in the afternoon sessions were the same types of calculations I do everyday at work minus a handful of bridge/pre & post tension concrete questions. My advice is really hit the NCEES afternoon practice problems hard and really understand the fundamentals behind statics. I feel like 1/3 of the afternoon questions or more were heavily based on an understanding of statics. Beyond that I think you can use the CERM to get by of a lot of the other topics like foundation design, concrete mixes, etc. 

My background is 4 years designing buildings and various structures utilizing masonry, CIP concrete, steel, and aluminum. Foundation design (spread, mat, square), moment resisting foundations, calculation of loads (dead, live, wind, snow, seismic, earth), retaining walls, liquid containing CIP rectangular tanks, minor timber design, moment resisting steel frames. Preparation of drawings, specifications, review of shop drawings, etc.

 

[gpoli111]

Oh yeah, understand how to calculate section properties (i.e. Section Modulus and moment of inertia) of new or built-up sections. I think there were about 3-4 questions that involved that.  

 

[mnguy88]

Thanks for your input. It's great to hear how studying is going from the eyes of a structural engineer. Ive been mostly focused on doing the practice structural depth exam from ppi and then I'll set a weekend soon to do the ncees. Concrete is my weakest subject since it is brand new to me. All of my co workers took the Construction depth and advised me to as well, but I branched out and picked structural. I guess we will see this April how things turn out. 

 

[SoCalBound]

I am a Structural Engineer. When I took the PE, I found it very easy because I was over-prepared. I had studied for more than 250 hours. I finished the morning part in 1.5 hours and afternoon in 2.5 hours.

To me, 3 factors play a big role in passing or failing the PE exams and they are about at the same weight:

1. Your educational background (Assumes that you had the education of your selected depth): Were you Grade A student, or you were doing all homeworks last minute with collaboration. Were you top 10% of your class or bottom 20%.

2. Are you a good test taker? Some people shine in tests, perform better than most under time constraints and they are fast. Some people are inherently slow to read, punch numbers, etc.

3. How much studying have you done and in what period. Minimum 200 hours are recommended on average.

So, if you get 2 out of these 3, you are very likely to pass.

 

[gpoli111]

I am a Structural Engineer. When I took the PE, I found it very easy because I was over-prepared. I had studied for more than 250 hours. I finished the morning part in 1.5 hours and afternoon in 2.5 hours.

To me, 3 factors play a big role in passing or failing the PE exams and they are about at the same weight:

1. Your educational background (Assumes that you had the education of your selected depth): Were you Grade A student, or you were doing all homeworks last minute with collaboration. Were you top 10% of your class or bottom 20%.

2. Are you a good test taker? Some people shine in tests, perform better than most under time constraints and they are fast. Some people are inherently slow to read, punch numbers, etc.

3. How much studying have you done and in what period. Minimum 200 hours are recommended on average.

So, if you get 2 out of these 3, you are very likely to pass.

So work experience doesn't matter for this test? I'd argue that #1 should be supplemented for design experience. I don't think much of your schooling from 4 years ago is really helping you pass the depth. Undergrad is good in teaching fundamentals but I don't think a semester on concrete/steel/foundations a piece is getting you through the afternoon session. You take those bits you remember from school and build off them with real world design. By doing this you fully begin to grasp and instill the fundamentals that the PE is testing you on.

 

[SoCalBound]

I know it sounds that way, but it is really hard to find people who are doing Steel, Concrete, Timber, Masonry, Foundation, Wind, Seismic altogether in their work as daily activity.

In todays efficiency related world, people specialize in these above items separately and only do them for 10 years, I was only exposed to Concrete and very little Steel with Wind loading at work. Nothing else... There was a guy who designed only slabs and foundations for 12 years...

Of course if you do all these at work, you can replace with my Item #1...

 

[SoCalBound]

So work experience doesn't matter for this test? I'd argue that #1 should be supplemented for design experience. I don't think much of your schooling from 4 years ago is really helping you pass the depth. Undergrad is good in teaching fundamentals but I don't think a semester on concrete/steel/foundations a piece is getting you through the afternoon session. You take those bits you remember from school and build off them with real world design. By doing this you fully begin to grasp and instill the fundamentals that the PE is testing you on.

Had friend who was top of his class who never performed real structural engineering passed the PE Structural Depth in first try because he studied well (Combination of #1 and #3). Structural Depth questions are not that difficult to require real-world design background. It is mostly structured to be cook-book and you only have 6 minutes, so it can not be that difficult.

 

[StandardPractice]

This guy below gave good advice and also gives out flow charts related to structural problems:

 

[mnguy88]

Had friend who was top of his class who never performed real structural engineering passed the PE Structural Depth in first try because he studied well (Combination of #1 and #3). Structural Depth questions are not that difficult to require real-world design background. It is mostly structured to be cook-book and you only have 6 minutes, so it can not be that difficult.

I agree with that. The questions are not impossible. They're difficult for someone like me who doesn't do structural as a profession, but the problems I'm encountering on the practice exams are very doable. I just feel like I'm behind and need more time to master the material. I appreciate everyone's input. 

 

[gpoli111]

Had friend who was top of his class who never performed real structural engineering passed the PE Structural Depth in first try because he studied well (Combination of #1 and #3). Structural Depth questions are not that difficult to require real-world design background. It is mostly structured to be cook-book and you only have 6 minutes, so it can not be that difficult.

I'm not trying to get too defensive here but I never said you needed practical experience to pass this depth. But my opinion was that it would be hard get through the afternoon without exposure to the depth topics on a day to day basis. I agree you could certainly pass this test with zero experience. The exam has an outline of topics, you can study those topics, take a practice exam to understand the structure of the questioning and pass it.

 

[StandardPractice]

I'm not trying to get too defensive here but I never said you needed practical experience to pass this depth. But my opinion was that it would be hard get through the afternoon without exposure to the depth topics on a day to day basis. I agree you could certainly pass this test with zero experience. The exam has an outline of topics, you can study those topics, take a practice exam to understand the structure of the questioning and pass it.

I do not believe daily experience is needed. It may help on a question or two that are qualitative in nature, but the numbers questions are very academic in nature and studying/creating shortcuts like flow charts are key.

 

[gpoli111]

I do not believe daily experience is needed. It may help on a question or two that are qualitative in nature, but the numbers questions are very academic in nature and studying/creating shortcuts like flow charts are key.

Understanding the theory is key. That way when you get a question unlike any example problems you've had, you can still find the solution. Flow charts and memorization will work only if the right questions come up.

 

[StandardPractice]

Understanding the theory is key. That way when you get a question unlike any example problems you've had, you can still find the solution. Flow charts and memorization will work only if the right questions come up.

We'll agree to disagree. "Understanding theory" is very general and doesn't mean much if you think about it. What theory are you trying to understand and related to what subject? Most individuals won't have experience in all building materials thus flow charts and having important "theories" summarized are key. This is how most practicing structural engineers go about their day to day tasks as well. Very few can KNOW every theory. You must have an AID to guide your understanding and supplement your design experience. OP in short create flow charts, summarize notes, and you'll be fine. Just look at virtually any PE exam tips guide e.g. the guy in youtube video posted earlier or someone like Structural HQ (Andy Lin). Experience is not needed and don't let anyone scare you into thinking it's a requirement to passing the PE exam. Experience is only a requirement for obtaining a license and being ethical in your design capabilities.  

 

[SoCalBound]

IMHO, too much experience may actually hurt you in a few questions. It may force you to want to go deeper than the question is asking for (sometimes comes from expert feeling on a subject). In real world design office, you don't need to find a solution in 6 minutes. in structural depth PE exam, strictly studying well and following cook-book will get you there if you are also an average to good test taker speed wise.

Experience would be at the bottom of my list for things required to pass the Structural PE exam...

 

[gpoli111]

We'll agree to disagree. "Understanding theory" is very general and doesn't mean much if you think about it. What theory are you trying to understand and related to what subject? Most individuals won't have experience in all building materials thus flow charts and having important "theories" summarized are key. This is how most practicing structural engineers go about their day to day tasks as well. Very few can KNOW every theory. You must have an AID to guide your understanding and supplement your design experience. OP in short create flow charts, summarize notes, and you'll be fine. Just look at virtually any PE exam tips guide e.g. the guy in youtube video posted earlier or someone like Structural HQ (Andy Lin). Experience is not needed and don't let anyone scare you into thinking it's a requirement to passing the PE exam. Experience is only a requirement for obtaining a license and being ethical in your design capabilities.  

I'll put this to rest after this post. I said the questions are based around fundamentals, i.e. beam loading, shear/moment diagrams, calculating section properties, etc. and that's what I recommended studying. I didn't mean to scare anyone into thinking they can't pass without practical experience. I said I thought the exam would be tough for those who don't do building design everyday. 

 

[SoCalBound]

1 hour ago, StandardPractice said: We'll agree to disagree. "Understanding theory" is very general and doesn't mean much if you think about it. What theory are you trying to understand and related to what subject? Most individuals won't have experience in all building materials thus flow charts and having important "theories" summarized are key. This is how most practicing structural engineers go about their day to day tasks as well. Very few can KNOW every theory. You must have an AID to guide your understanding and supplement your design experience. OP in short create flow charts, summarize notes, and you'll be fine. Just look at virtually any PE exam tips guide e.g. the guy in youtube video posted earlier or someone like Structural HQ (Andy Lin). Experience is not needed and don't let anyone scare you into thinking it's a requirement to passing the PE exam. Experience is only a requirement for obtaining a license and being ethical in your design capabilities.  

I'll put this to rest after this post. I said the questions are based around fundamentals, i.e. beam loading, shear/moment diagrams, calculating section properties, etc. and that's what I recommended studying. I didn't mean to scare anyone into thinking they can't pass without practical experience. I said I thought the exam would be tough for those who don't do building design everyday. 

Last sentence above is soo wrong.

Exam wont be tough for those who don't do building design everyday.

End of story.

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