morning session chapters in Lindberg

hello there

I am starting to preparing for the PE Civil exam in California for october and started reviewing the Lindberg manual. My afternoon topic will be water resources. Can someone please let me know if I can skip some chapters in the rest of the topics?? i.e if there is a list of chapters specific to morning only?? Please help. this PE prep is already killing me.

i tried going chapter by chapter and it slowly drove me insane. the topics are so broad, you really just need to be able to identify what the question is asking and where you can go to get the answer. it would be pretty ridiculous to expect someone to know everything in that book, especially since they just keep adding to it. get some of the 6 minute solutions books and work some practice problems. lindberg seems to love problems that require half a dozen different steps and equations to get the answers and i didn't find that representative at all. also, look into some other books if you're finding the CERM a pain to really follow. i actually think it's pretty crappy as far as grabbing equations on the fly that i hadn't really used before due to the way they list and define the variables. i used the following book for the majority of my water questions (transportation depth): http://www.amazon.com/Civil-Engineering-Fo...0697&sr=8-1

i doubt it's a 1 size fits all situation, but personally, i wouldn't use lindberg as my focus for studying, just as a resource like i did on the exam.

I don't think I've read a recommendation on this board where CERM was described in conjunction with the words "insane", "ridiculous", and "crappy". Could you please explain what you mean with "...grabbing equations on the fly ... that i hadn't really used before ... due to the way they list and define the variables."? Seems like three different complaints related to sequence. You said that you didn't go through the chapters in order. Do you think that is the reason you felt equations you hadn't used before were grabbed out of nowhere?

Junebug2011 said:

hello there
I am starting to preparing for the PE Civil exam in California for october and started reviewing the Lindberg manual. My afternoon topic will be water resources. Can someone please let me know if I can skip some chapters in the rest of the topics?? i.e if there is a list of chapters specific to morning only?? Please help. this PE prep is already killing me.

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I used the NCEES syllabus and only studied topics out of the CERM that were on the syllabus. I started my studying by putting the CERM page number next to each syllabus topic.

I would say the CERM is an invaluable tool for the PE exam. Any resource with that much information within it is going to have the flaw of being a bit unwieldy at times. I found the index to be very good. For the exam I printed out a copy of the index so that I could look items up and flip through my CERM separately. I found this to be very helpful.

As far as topics to skip, it's really at your own discretion. Take a look at what information the NCEES says will be on your exam and make up your own mind from that info.

The exam content can be found here

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/PE_exam.php

I took the Transportation exam, so I skipped areas that I felt wouldn't be worth my time. I actually skipped the entire structural section of the CERM. I don't know if I'd recommend that for anyone else, but I just didn't have the time to put in to study that section and it made up only a small portion of the morning part of my exam. So I took a calculated risk and skipped it.

The Lindeburg practice problems are generally much more difficult then what you expect to see on the exam, but I felt like they were a good study tool because they made you work on multiple concepts and had a tendency to build on topic that had been covered previously. My study strategy involved reading the chapters in the CERM and solving the problems in the Lindeburg accompanying CERM practice problems book. Doing that I felt very prepared for the exam.

The first thing I would suggest is developing a study schedule. You need to establish how much time you are going to spend preparing for the exam and once you have that figured out, you need to lay out your schedule. It is very easy to fall behind on studying if you aren't careful or if you don't have a schedule to go by. Here is a link to a study schedule that can at least provide you with the frame work necessary to prepare a personalized schedule:http://pe-exam.com/pe-exam-study-schedule

FatherTime said:

I don't think I've read a recommendation on this board where CERM was described in conjunction with the words "insane", "ridiculous", and "crappy". Could you please explain what you mean with "...grabbing equations on the fly ... that i hadn't really used before ... due to the way they list and define the variables."? Seems like three different complaints related to sequence. You said that you didn't go through the chapters in order. Do you think that is the reason you felt equations you hadn't used before were grabbed out of nowhere?

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for example (i don't have mine with me), grab your CERM and look up manning's equation. if you don't know what the different variables mean, you have to hunt through the text to find them. whereas a book like civil engineering formulas has them all listed in a nice orderly fashion. i don't want to know everything in the CERM, because i don't need to know everything in there. it's a waste of time. i was going through the chapters in order, but there is a lot of erroneous information that won't help you on this exam. it's about speed. the CERM is great as a desk reference for when you have all the time in the world, but i didn't like it very much for the 8 hr.

PsychoNumber1 said:

FatherTime said:

I don't think I've read a recommendation on this board where CERM was described in conjunction with the words "insane", "ridiculous", and "crappy". Could you please explain what you mean with "...grabbing equations on the fly ... that i hadn't really used before ... due to the way they list and define the variables."? Seems like three different complaints related to sequence. You said that you didn't go through the chapters in order. Do you think that is the reason you felt equations you hadn't used before were grabbed out of nowhere?

Click to expand...

for example (i don't have mine with me), grab your CERM and look up manning's equation. if you don't know what the different variables mean, you have to hunt through the text to find them. whereas a book like civil engineering formulas has them all listed in a nice orderly fashion. i don't want to know everything in the CERM, because i don't need to know everything in there. it's a waste of time. i was going through the chapters in order, but there is a lot of erroneous information that won't help you on this exam. it's about speed. the CERM is great as a desk reference for when you have all the time in the world, but i didn't like it very much for the 8 hr.

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worked just fine for me on the 8 hour exam. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

FYI: In the CERM the beginning of each chapter listed all the variables given in that chapter. So for the manning equation, which in my edition was in chapter 19, all the variables would be defined on the first page of that chapter. I agree, for some people that may not be the best way to organize it and I can see the validity in your argument, but as an all-in-one resource I think it's pretty good.

I believe that CERM is the solution to the morning problems, its not perfect but It is developed for one purpose. The best method that I have found is to download the test outline and follow it very closely, that will eliminate studing chapters that will not be on the test. It gets difficult since the outline has some topics that are hard to follow. The other issue that was pesented was that CERM does not have all the constants needed near the formulas, I wrote the constants in the border near the formula or the page and table number if it reffered to a table, worked very well. I did not use the civil engineering handbook but that seems to work as well, many have sucessfully taken the test.

1. Take a look at the NCEES exam outline. It will tell you the areas that you need to know and the number of questions for each area. (it gives you a percentage)

2. Work through the 6 minute solutions breadth problems for all areas, even if you eventually have to resort to copying the answer for some. These are a little harder than the NCEES problems, but they will prepare you well and direct you to the correct references.

3. Work through the 6 minute solutions problems for your depth area.

4. Work through the NCEES breadth problems for all areas and the depth area of your choice.

5. By now you should be familiar with the problem types and references that you need. Take a practice exam to identify weak areas.

6. Take the exam and congratulate yourself on a job well done.

This process worked for me and took about 3 months. I set up my schedule to do 3-5 problems a day. Don't bother with the Lindberg problems unless you have a ton of time to prepare. They would be beneficial if you wanted to know everything in the CERM, but remember that your goal here is to pass the NCEES exam, not the Lindberg practice exam. Good luck.

Thank you very much everyone. Very glad to get such immediate and helpful responses.

Can someone please let me know if it is a must to study the CERM in the same chapter order. I prefer starting with geotech, ending with structural as geotech is easy for me.

You definately do NOT need to study all the chapters in the CERM - not even close. Get the NCEES outline - it is your map to passing the exam. The NCEES sample exams are your other vital link.

I'm a Civil Trans who passed first time through in April.

If it isn't on the exam outline don't study it.

Pay attention to the percentages - focus your time where the money is. For instance, a Civil Trans guy has a full 20 out of 80 questions coming out of the geometric design section. Do you think the 1 chapter in the CERM is enough for that - not likely. Get some more resources and know that section very well if you're a transportation writer. Conversely, I could expect 0 or 1 question about flexible and rigit pavement - a huge topic cover 2 chapters in the CERM. I didn't spend much time there.

Below is how I broke it down, I have the CERM chapter (if available) before each outline topic. NOTE: the formatting sucks when I pasted it into here - and I originally have the Goswami references as well as references from other texts I used for various topics.

Some outline topics are not in the CERM, or the Goswami. Do some internet research, get an additional text book and get the info yourself. An example would be the loading section in the structures exam. I found the Das book really good for the geo section. Construction is pretty basic, get familiar with the type of problems on the sample exam.

Good luck.

I. Construction 20%

A. Earthwork Construction and Layout

79 1. Excavation and embankment (cut and fill)

79 2. Borrow pit volumes

80 3. Site layout and control

B. Estimating Quantities and Costs

1. Quantity take-off methods

85 2. Cost estimating

C. Scheduling

1. Construction sequencing

85 2. Resource scheduling

3. Time-cost trade-off

D. Material Quality Control and Production

81 1. Material testing (e.g., concrete, soil, asphalt)

E. Temporary Structures

1. Construction loads

II. Geotechnical 20%

35 A. Subsurface Exploration and Sampling

1. Soil classification

2. Boring log interpretation (e.g., soil profile)

35 B. Engineering Properties of Soils and Materials

Engineering properties of soils and materials (e.g., index properties, identification of types of soils, suitable or unsuitable soil, boring logs)

1. Permeability

2. Pavement design criteria

35 C. Soil Mechanics Analysis

Soil mechanics analysis (e.g., soil behavior, soil classification, soil compaction)

1. Pressure distribution

2. Lateral earth pressure

40-4 to 40-10 3. Consolidation

4. Compaction

5. Effective and total stresses

D. Earth Structures

1. Slope stability

2. Slabs-on-grade

36 E. Shallow Foundations

1. Bearing capacity

2. Settlement

37 F. Earth Retaining Structures

1. Gravity walls

2. Cantilever walls

3. Stability analysis

39 4. Braced and anchored excavations

III. Structural 20%

A. Loadings

1. Dead loads

2. Live loads

3. Construction loads

B. Analysis

41 / A-44 1. Determinate analysis

C. Mechanics of Materials

44-12 1. Shear diagrams

44-12 2. Moment diagrams

3. Flexure

44-11 4. Shear

5. Tension

6. Compression

44-8 7. Combined stresses

44-17 to 44-22 8. Deflection

D. Materials

48 (49) 1. Concrete (plain, reinforced)

48 (58) 2. Structural steel (structural, light gage, reinforcing)

E. Member Design

50/59 1. Beams FE Ch 20

51 2. Slabs

36 3. Footings

IV. Transportation 20% - THIS SECTION REPEATED IN AFTERNOON for a full 25% of total mark (trans exam)

A. Geometric Design

1. Horizontal curves

2. Vertical curves

3. Sight distance

4. Superelevation

5. Vertical and/or horizontal clearances

6. Acceleration and deceleration

V. Water Resources and Environmental 20%

16/17 A. Hydraulics – Closed Conduit

16-5 1. Energy and/or continuity equation (e.g., Bernoulli)

2. Pressure conduit (e.g., single pipe, force mains)

17-7 3. Closed pipe flow equations including Hazen-Williams, Darcy-Weisbach Equation

17-10 4. Friction and/or minor losses

17-31 5. Pipe network analysis (e.g., pipeline design, branch networks, loop networks)

18 6. Pump application and analysis

19 B. Hydraulics – Open Channel

19-6 1. Open-channel flow (e.g., Manning’s equation)

19-37 2. Culvert design

19-17 3. Spillway capacity

19-33 4. Energy dissipation (e.g., hydraulic jump, velocity control)

5. Stormwater collection (e.g., stormwater inlets, gutter flow, street flow, storm sewer pipes)

6. Flood plains/floodways

19-14 7. Flow measurement – open channel

20 C. Hydrology

1. Storm characterization (e.g., rainfall measurement and distribution)

2. Storm frequency

3. Hydrographs application

4. Rainfall intensity, duration, and frequency (IDF) curves

5. Time of concentration

6. Runoff analysis including Rational and SCS methods

7. Erosion

8. Detention/retention ponds

Hydrograph development and synthetic hydrographs

28-1 to 28-11 D. Wastewater Treatment

1. Collection systems (e.g., lift stations, sewer networks, infiltration, inflow)

26-1 & 26 40-45 E. Water Treatment

1. Hydraulic loading

16-17 2. Distribution systems

PM SECTION

I. Traffic Analysis 22.5% - 9

73 A. Traffic capacity studies

73-15 B. Traffic signals

73-7 C. Speed studies

73-15 D. Intersection analysis

73-8 E. Traffic volume studies

78 F. Sight distance evaluation

G. Traffic control devices

73-20 H. Pedestrian facilities

I. Driver behavior and/or performance

II. Geometric Design 30% - 12

78 A. Horizontal curves

78 B. Vertical curves

78 C. Sight distance

78 D. Superelevation

E. Vertical and/or horizontal clearances

74-7 F. Acceleration and deceleration

73-23 G. Intersections and/or interchanges

III. Transportation Planning 7.5% - 3

A. Optimization and/or cost analysis

(e.g., transportation route A or B)

B. Traffic impact studies

73 C. Capacity analysis (future conditions)

IV. Traffic Safety 15% - 6

A. Roadside clearance analysis

B. Conflict analysis

73-33 C. Work zone safety

74-9 D. Accident analysis

V. Other Topics 25% - 10 (A thru D covered in other sections, E,F,G new)

A. Hydraulics

1. Culvert design

2. Open channel – subcritical and supercritical flow

B. Hydrology

1. Hydrograph development and synthetic hydrographs

C. Engineering properties of soils and materials (e.g., index properties, identification of types of soils, suitable or unsuitable soil, boring logs)

D. Soil mechanics analysis (e.g., soil behavior, soil classification, soil compaction)

E. Engineering economics

86 1. Value engineering and costing

39 F. Construction operations and methods (e.g., erosion control measures, excavation/embankment)

75/76 G. Pavement structures (e.g., flexible and rigid pavement design)

My curiosity is piqued, because now, (according to PsychoNumber1), CERM is "... a waste of time ... there is a lot of erroneous information...". Erroneous information? Erroneous means "wrong". I wouldn't want to use that kind of book, either, but where is the erroneous information? Did he/she mean "extreneous"? Maybe PsychoNumber1 is waxing poetic with hyperbole, or maybe he/she just doesn't like books written in textbook style, or maybe there's another reason to trash CERM. I find it hard to understand how a civil engineer would not know what the variables v and n mean in Manning's formula (even if the variables and their units in two different systems of units weren't already defined in excruciating detail at the beginning of each chapter), and blame that on the textbook. I know everyone has an opinion and is entitled to speak their mind here, but I'm just not connecting the logic dots.

FatherTime said:

My ... poetic ... hyperbole ... doesn't like ... excruciating ... dots.

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are you kidding? you're quoting out of context buddy. having not touched manning's equation since college, i sure don't need to know whant 'n' and 'v' are, but i know where to look it up and how to apply it. as a matter of fact, i just mentioned manning's equation as an example and stated that i didn't have my references with me. in a test where you have 6 minutes per problem, hunting for variables or flipping back to the beginning of the chapter is also a waste of time. the CERM is not written like most text books. most text books follow the methodology in the civil engineering formulas book:

y=ax+b

where:

a=

x=

b=

it's a much more simple and much quicker methodology when you're looking up equations.

but i'm sure you'll pick out out some other words to twist around again.

edit: try searching "culverts on subcritical slopes" as an example http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071614699...ptu#reader-link

i asked this question somewhere else but still didnt get good answer and can't find it either and very surprised that why everyone is NOT asking this question. Here is my question: in NCEES specs, the many topics listed for PM and AM are same for all depths. So, for depths other than our own, how do we know where to stop studying, for topics listed under both AM and PM?

Example:

I take Geotechnical for instance. But, for construction, which is one of the morning topics, say, scheduling is listed both under AM and PM. how do i know where to stop for scheduling study, so that i dont cover its afternoon part? At what point? The only way is to look at sample exams? I called NCEES and that is what they suggested. But it doesnt make sense to me.

If you're taking the Civil/Geotechnical exam, you should only be looking at the specs/syllabus for this exam. What's covered in the PM depth sections for other disciplines (e.g., Transportation, Water/Environmental) is completely irrelevant. The Civil AM/breath specifications are the same for all disciplines.

The NCEES sample exam is an excellent resource to give you an idea of the nature and difficulty of questions you might see on exam day.

In using CERM as my primary study reference, the first planning exercise I did was to try to map each of the exam topics to a particular chapter in the CERM. Bear in mind that this is a very imperfect process, and you'll undoubtedly make a number of subtle refinements once you start getting a handle on the material, tabbing pages, doing practice problems,etc. From there, based on the % of questions for each topic area listed in the syllabus and the amount of time I had to study,* I made a study schedule to keep my review focused and on track. Hope this helps and good luck.

* I started early and gave myself 24 weeks (at +/-10 hrs a week) to prepare, which was partially out of personal preference (I'd rather be thorough/methodical than cram) and partly out of necessity (job, newborn baby). One very big gripe I have with PPI/Lindeburg is that they note that a good review will require around 300 hours of study (which I generally agree with) yet they offer 12-week prep courses leading into the exam. Unless you've put in some serious legwork beforehand or are unemployed, this does not compute!

I wasn't a huge fan of the Lindburg practice tests. The questions were much more complicated than the actual exam for instance:

I remember one question that was based on non-symmetrical vertical curves. I've designed and reviewed highway plans for almost 8 years now. I'm not sure I have ever seen that in practice. They may exist and I've just never came across one, IDK but for sure those will never be on the PE, seemed like a waste of time and effort to study for that very rare case.

I also remember sometimes the solutions that they gave for their questions were insanely complicated when a simple way was possible, such as:

I remember a surveying question where the rodman wasn't holding the rod plumb but it gave you the angle he was off by. Simple trig will give the answer of the correct reading in a matter of seconds, the solution in the Lindburg test was nearly a page long.

ketanco said:

i asked this question somewhere else but still didnt get good answer and can't find it either and very surprised that why everyone is NOT asking this question. Here is my question: in NCEES specs, the many topics listed for PM and AM are same for all depths. So, for depths other than our own, how do we know where to stop studying, for topics listed under both AM and PM?

Example:

I take Geotechnical for instance. But, for construction, which is one of the morning topics, say, scheduling is listed both under AM and PM. how do i know where to stop for scheduling study, so that i dont cover its afternoon part? At what point? The only way is to look at sample exams? I called NCEES and that is what they suggested. But it doesnt make sense to me.

Click to expand...

I don't know for your specific example but for disciplines that have established codes you can stop studying at anything that requires the code. The morning questions should be able to be solved with general knowledge and not having the code.

For example: you may be required to analyze a beam in the morning but generally not pick the best section based on AISC. OR you may be expected to determine the length of curve for a horizontal curve based on a given radius and intersection angle, but you wouldn't be expected to spec a minimum radius for a design speed out of the Green Book.