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Guest Gomer

"Why I want to know my score...."

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I reiterate that I don't think it's that kind of exam.

Imagine if the people that write the questions wrote really hard assed questions. Only the brightest engineers would get them right and we'd end up with only 5% passing rates. Or worse yet, if the questions were all hard ones, the passing score would be really low and people could get a license by guessing and knowing very little.

So they make the questions more fair and not as hard so you have to know a minimum amount to get them right and get enough right to pass. So the exam is not structured to find the smartest engineers. The questions are written so you have to know a minimal amount. If you get all 80 questions right, all that means is that you got 80 minimally competent questions right. I guess that could make you "smarter" than someone who got 60/80 minimally competent questions right, but not IMHO.

Just my :2cents:

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I think you're right, Mike. My impression of the Environmental exam was that there was no way any one person could know or have references to answer all of the qualitiative questions that were asked. This seems to make it clear that the test is designed with a somewhat shotgun-styled approach. They probably throw out as wide a range of questions as possible to help cover the impossibly wide range of experiences that practicing engineers can have, fully expecting that most people are not going to be able to answer a certain percentage. In that respect, it does no good to report scores beyond simply pass/fail. The test is simply not designed for anything other than determining that minimum "passing" cut.

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I will admit that I am most likely a 70 PE Engineer.

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Guest grover

The problem with knowing your score is that so few other people know their score, that it's meaningless. What does it matter if you got a 71 or a 75 or a 95 without knowing the context of how it compares? We don't know the scaling formula or how it translates into a percentile- did 95% of the people that passed, pass with a 70-75? Or does the bell-curve peak around mid-70s and make a score of 80 simply average? It just adds a new dimension to the frustration. I mean, if the only dick you see is your own, how do you know how it really compares? Albeit, better than not knowing at all, that's for sure!

For what it's worth, I got an 89 on the FE (general) and 85 on the PE (EE:Power).

The 89 on the FE was actually very useful- let me know my studdy habits were inefficient- 19 points over is nothing but wasted effort! So, I cut back for the PE ;)

Edited by grover

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Guest Gomer

First off... thanks to all who complimented my writing!

My interpretation exactly.

It is just this type of attitude that they are trying to suppress. I'll assume that the OP was writing it in jest, but there are a lot of arrogant A$$holes that will assume an air of superiority and believe that they are "better" engineers because they scored higher on the test.

100% in jest =) The nice thing about arrogant A$$holes is that they tend to be top-heavy. It's easy to bring them down!

Here are my thoughts on the matter, for what it is worth.

2. I think we should be informed of our score, because of nothing more than satisfying that primal desire to know as much as possible about the result of our efforts as we can. I don't consider my score against my peers, and they don't consider their scores against mine. I also don't think any less of an engineer who took the exam 4 times and passed on the last attempt, and I don't think any higher of an engineer who passed it on the first attempt. Every single human being is different and has different distractors and also different responsibilities that may physically limit their ability to study for months of their life in order to obtain a 90% on the exam.

That's it exactly.

The problem with knowing your score is that so few other people know their score, that it's meaningless. What does it matter if you got a 71 or a 75 or a 95 without knowing the context of how it compares? We don't know the scaling formula or how it translates into a percentile- did 95% of the people that passed, pass with a 70-75? Or does the bell-curve peak around mid-70s and make a score of 80 simply average? It just adds a new dimension to the frustration. I mean, if the only dick you see is your own, how do you know how it really compares? Albeit, better than not knowing at all, that's for sure!

For what it's worth, I got an 89 on the FE (general) and 85 on the PE (EE:Power).

The 89 on the FE was actually very useful- let me know my studdy habits were inefficient- 19 points over is nothing but wasted effort! So, I cut back for the PE ;)

After thinking about it... they could give us both our score and percentile. And after thinking about it even more, if I had to choose only one. I'd be happy with a percentile.

Great forum everyone Thanks to the body of advice that is engineerboards for helping me ACE (ha!) my PE exam.

Edited by Gomer

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it could be like the erosion control class where they post everyones scores online by there birthdate.

& yes I did point out that on that particular exam I did infact get the high score :winko:

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My score???.... WGASA.....I passed and thats the bottom line.

Hey DV. Can you create a new smiley or emoticon with that letters?

WGASA....I love it

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Returned from a short vacation Tuesday to the letter in the mailbox. It was one and done for me.

While I really do feel for those who recieved two sheets of paper, that single sheet in my envelope still left a slightly sour taste in my mouth.

I liken it to working in a sausage factory for a year striving to make the best product possible in the worst of conditions only to find out at the end of the year that your sausage was "acceptable".

I put in my time at the sausage factory.

  • I spent well over $1,500 in fees, materials, and coffee house "dinners".
  • I probably studied as much for this exam as I did total of my college career.
  • I tabbed every chapter color coded by section. I photocopied and tabbed the index. Hell, I highlighted every italicized term in the CERM!
  • I sacrificed a solid month and half of my spring preparing for the exam. And yes, it was a sacrifice. Straight from work every night to study. Home at 10, do it again the next day. I took a break a month in one night to go dinner with my girlfriend. The change of pace was such a shock to my system I was babbling like a madman and devouring everything in sight.
  • I spent that time on a form of life support provided by my girlfriend. Without her help, I'd surely have failed, starved, or simply lost my mind. I am in her debt and I am sure I will have to pay the piper when she begins work on her thesis.
I had fun taking the test. It didn't worry me. I wasn't anxious. I embraced the challenge. And Praise FSM, I PASSED!!!!

But I want to know how I did.

  • If I only missed 2, I want to have it permanently attached to my refrigerator.
  • If I only passed by 2, I want to dance a jig and pat my self on the back for printing that extra 500 page PDF at Kinko's and paying for overnight shipping on that last reference I ordered from Amazon. The single answer I got from each of those made all the difference.
  • If I scored 2 better than my best friend, I want to hold it over their head every time they question my opinion.
  • If conversely, I scored 2 less. I want to laugh as I point out that they used "c" for all their guesses while I used "b". That had to be the reason.
We engineers live in a land defined by numbers. We are hardwired for analysis. PASS leaves me wanting.

Why can't we know?

First, big congrats! As long as you know you passed the exam, the score should not matter that much. After all, this is not an exam as GRE or SAT. Don't take it too serious.

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My score???.... WGASA.....I passed and thats the bottom line.

Hey DV. Can you create a new smiley or emoticon with that letters?

WGASA....I love it

Acronym Definition

WGASA World's Greatest Animal Show Anywhere :laugh:

???

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Guest stompbox
O.K. I will dive into the shit heap on this one- I DISAGREE and here is my reasoning:

My good friend is a Certified Flight Instructor and he is teaching me to fly my little Cessna 172. He told me that your grades are recorded and they stay with you. I'm not sure if they are actually on his flight credentials or how that works but I think that is great.

My friend "aced" all of his flight exams and I feel more comfortable learning from him because I know I am getting quality training.

Not all engineers are created equal. Some people take the profession a lot more seriously than others. I have seen stamped drawings that I would not go near with a 10 foot pole. I think a superior exam score would be indicative of someone that a) has a better understanding of the material and B) has a greater level of dedication.

In the same way that companies will head hunt the "A" students from college, a high exam score speaks volumes when that is the exclusive filter for differentiating the licensed engineer from the unlicensed one.

Besides, almost everywhere else in the real world, things get ranked or graded. Do you want to go see a movie that got 1 star or 4 stars? How about Consumer Reports where everything under the sun gets a relative score so people can figure out which washing machine or popcorn maker to buy? When you watch a football game, you want to know the score, not just who won. Did they win by one point or did they crush the competition? I think pass-fail is the wuss way out.

This is BS in my mind.

I know a few people that when they used to report the scores had 90% or higher on the PE exam..... They have never been successful managers, they are successful engineers but they do not like to give out their work and deal with other people. As result, the project take too long, are over budget, and it not only pisses off the clients but the company they work for as well......

Test scores are not everything when you have to deal with co-workers, clients, the public, AND manage your budget.

In summary, the PE is a level of competency in engineering. This does not mean that you *should be* promoted, *should be* a project manager, *should be* more valuable to the company than a EIT.

Edited by stompbox

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O.K. I will dive into the shit heap on this one- I DISAGREE and here is my reasoning:

My good friend is a Certified Flight Instructor and he is teaching me to fly my little Cessna 172. He told me that your grades are recorded and they stay with you. I'm not sure if they are actually on his flight credentials or how that works but I think that is great.

My friend "aced" all of his flight exams and I feel more comfortable learning from him because I know I am getting quality training.

Not all engineers are created equal. Some people take the profession a lot more seriously than others. I have seen stamped drawings that I would not go near with a 10 foot pole. I think a superior exam score would be indicative of someone that a) has a better understanding of the material and B) has a greater level of dedication.

In the same way that companies will head hunt the "A" students from college, a high exam score speaks volumes when that is the exclusive filter for differentiating the licensed engineer from the unlicensed one.

Besides, almost everywhere else in the real world, things get ranked or graded. Do you want to go see a movie that got 1 star or 4 stars? How about Consumer Reports where everything under the sun gets a relative score so people can figure out which washing machine or popcorn maker to buy? When you watch a football game, you want to know the score, not just who won. Did they win by one point or did they crush the competition? I think pass-fail is the wuss way out.

I went to school with several "A" students who were f'in retards when it came to common sense, logic, and real world problem solving (kinda what we do.)

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I went to school with several "A" students who were f'in retards when it came to common sense, logic, and real world problem solving (kinda what we do.)

Yes. We refer to those people as ftards. Or efftards. Your choice.

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Yes. We refer to those people as ftards. Or efftards. Your choice.

MIG, I like that. I may use that. "the Efftards tend to spew alot of Effluent"

Works for me.

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In summary, the PE is a level of competency in engineering. This does not mean that you *should be* promoted, *should be* a project manager, *should be* more valuable to the company than a EIT.

If the PE is a "level of competency in engineering" then by definition a PE (by nature of the required experience and by demonstrating the level of competency by passing at least one 8hr test) should in fact be more valuable to the company than an EIT. No it does not mean that he/she should be promoted or a project manager but the PE qualification should certianly be taken into consideration for promotion or project manager status over someone who is not registered.

The topic is about whether the passing score should be divulged not whether the PE means anything or not. Your statements imply that being registered as a PE doesn't have any relevance. That is BS.

I am not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United States of America.

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I am not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United Sattes of America.

USA

USA

USA

:unitedstates:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

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Guest stompbox
If the PE is a "level of competency in engineering" then by definition a PE (by nature of the required experience and by demonstrating the level of competency by passing at least one 8hr test) should in fact be more valuable to the company than an EIT. No it does not mean that he/she should be promoted or a project manager but the PE qualification should certianly be taken into consideration for promotion or project manager status over someone who is not registered.

The topic is about whether the passing score should be divulged not whether the PE means anything or not. Your statements imply that being registered as a PE doesn't have any relevance. That is BS.

I am not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United Sattes of America.

i got a little off topic DiazWV summed up what i was saying pretty nicely.

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Guest VA_Env_Engr

I agree with MA_PE. Passing the PE exam demonstrates proficiency in one's technical area and as such should be a big factor when considering promotion etc. Management on the other hand is not so technical, but a blend of art and science and the length and type of experience plays a major role in the kind of manager you are. Having a PE does not necessarily make you a good project manager, but it gives you a lot of credibility on the technical front.

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Besides, almost everywhere else in the real world, things get ranked or graded. Do you want to go see a movie that got 1 star or 4 stars? How about Consumer Reports where everything under the sun gets a relative score so people can figure out which washing machine or popcorn maker to buy? When you watch a football game, you want to know the score, not just who won. Did they win by one point or did they crush the competition? I think pass-fail is the wuss way out.

Well, the movie example I'll ignore because it's based on opinion.

Consumer Reports tests are designed to determine which washing machine is the best - a different kind of test than if the test that they used only determined if the washing machine met a certain quality guideline. That's what UL does. UL testing doesn't determine which is the best - just that it meets a minimum level so as not to kill anyone...... Kind of like the PE test.

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i got a little off topic DiazWV summed up what i was saying pretty nicely.

I can't type so I have to use short sentences.

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Part of me would still like to know, but a big part knows that I barely passed. I would take special joy knowing that my testing method of doing the AM session, then working the first 15 questions in the PM, and then leaving, paid off ;)

I worked with a guy who scored in the 90’s on the EIT, very smart, but he couldn’t put out a full complete set of plans to save his life. Sure he could draw a nice concept, develop a NASA certified spreadsheet to handle the quantities, but as far as dragging the full complete bid package across the goal line, you can forget that.

I would like to hear an explanation though of why they don’t pass out numbered scores.

Part of me thinks that since the passing percentage for second timers is so low that maybe the thought is that people will be more likely to study more in depth the second time around, rather than saying damn I made a 68! Guess I can just do a few more hydrology problems.

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Acronym Definition

WGASA World's Greatest Animal Show Anywhere :laugh:

???

Nope. It is Who GIves A Shit Anyways

I think it is funny but...WGASA

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Nope. It is Who GIves A Shit Anyways

I think it is funny but...WGASA

I see said the blind man. Actually my google inquiry provided both. :laugh:

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Guest VA_Env_Engr

Great! I can add it to my ever expanding vocabulary. Have you guys heard of BOHICA?

Stands for Bend Over Here It Comes Again. An ex-Navy colleague of mine told me that.

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Great! I can add it to my ever expanding vocabulary. Have you guys heard of BOHICA?

Stands for Bend Over Here It Comes Again. An ex-Navy colleague of mine told me that.

That brings to mind

An ex-NAVY friend of mine said..... NAVY - Never Again Volunteer Yourself.

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Guest VA_Env_Engr
:laugh: I'll pass it along to my colleague.

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