April 2019 SE Results Thread - Page 32 - Structural - Engineer Boards
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April 2019 SE Results Thread

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12 hours ago, Chuckimus said:

It is possible, I think there is a threshold of acceptable, so maybe 70% correct of the problem is acceptable. So three of those with an unacceptable may not be passing, but three 100% acceptable and one unacceptable is passing. That's how I'm thinking of it at least.

I mentioned it earlier in this thread but we've never had good indications whether it was possible until now. You would have to be very confident you got AAAU on the afternoon to "confirm" it. We did theorize that a really high morning score would get you a passing score but we had failing scores well above 80% on the morning that were failed because of a U on the afternoon if I recall.

Either way, I'd say we can safely modify our understanding that an unacceptable on the afternoon will "generally" fail you.

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I still find it hard to believe one Unacceptable can still pass, especially if left completely blank. A friend of mine took PPI and said someone failed with a score of 33 in AM and A/A/IR/IR in PM. That already sounds BS to me that you can’t pass with that score. 

In my engineer head, I’m thinking...Say each problem contributes 25 pt in the PM. Maybe range of being Acceptable is 19-25 pt (76% and above), and IR is 15-18pt (60%-76%), and anything below 14 pt (<56%) is Unacceptable.

Based on that assumption, that PM score above gives a range of 68 to 86 pt. And even if you take 68 pt in PM and average it with 33/40 in AM, I’m still getting almost like 75% overall. And remember this is the low end of each range add up. If you take the high end, we get almost 85% overall. And with one Unacceptable, you can only match that if you score 95% in the morning. (95+75)/2=85...which is 38/40.

 

of course, this is all just assumptions and we will never find out how NCEES grade our exams. Hopefully @Chuckimus can enlighten me because I’m just SHOCKED.

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10 hours ago, Chuckimus said:

I absolutely hate that about this exam. They don't tell us a damn thing about grading. And for us that aren't perfect at every test we take, being able to come up with a strategy is important. Mine turned into screw wood because it would be unethical for me to do anyway, as I have zero experience with it, and focus on what I know. I focused on concrete, steel, masonry, and analysis and did them completely. So I didn't fudge anything, I made sure it was correct and well explained. If you are struggling like me to pass (which I did, yay!), maybe try a different approach. I can't do four of those problems in four hours, and I don't think you should rush through something you haven't seen before 

To really answer why they won't tell us anything about grading, I'd posit we consider two principles. First, who does this procedure benefit? And second, Occam's razor. 

At some point, someone sat in a room and said "we need to grade essay problems subjectively, but maintain a believable--albeit superficial--patina of objectivity." We do know that in the past, all licensing exams were constructed response (essay). Additionally, we know that more information was provided on grading and errors as well. So what lead to the change? 

NCEES procedure manuals state that this was done for the purposes of exam security. This is their most important (stated) goal. However, if exam security were the only, or actual reason, you would see a marked positive difference in the pass rate between first time takers and repeat takers. Seeing one administration of the exam would theoretically give you an unfair advantage when retaking, and, NCEES might limit examinees to a maximum number of attempts to maintain this illusion.  But based on the metrics and passing rate data provided by NCEES, we know this isn't the case--seeing exam content in and of itself does not increase your chance of passing. Therefore the purposeful obfuscation on the essay grading must serve some higher purpose...otherwise it wouldn't be in place. The simplest explanation appears to be that the trick to the test isn't necessarily the exam content, but rather the grading procedures themselves. So now the real question: whom does this procedure benefit?

The public as a whole clearly is benefited by competent engineers. However, if the public were intended to be the main beneficiary, NCEES would be in the business of promoting that examinees previously deemed "incompetent" could improve and become competent. The simplest way to achieve this would be to provide grading information to licensure candidates, likely bound by NDAs similar to those signed prior to taking the test. But NCEES does not and would not risk taking this step. Why? The grading data must thusly be considered sacrosanct in a way that goes above and beyond how the exam content is classified. There must be proprietary methods which are applied generally to all essay problems; NCEES is concerned that being aware of those methods--more than the types of problems themselves--would skew pass rates to a point that continued exam administration would be unsustainable.  The procedure in place clearly is not beneficial to the examinee in any way, and likely does more harm than good.

NCEES understands that providing a vague diagnostic doesn't raise your chances of passing the next time around. That, in my estimation, says volumes. 

Edited by Nathan55
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5 hours ago, TehMightyEngineer said:

I mentioned it earlier in this thread but we've never had good indications whether it was possible until now. You would have to be very confident you got AAAU on the afternoon to "confirm" it. We did theorize that a really high morning score would get you a passing score but we had failing scores well above 80% on the morning that were failed because of a U on the afternoon if I recall.

Either way, I'd say we can safely modify our understanding that an unacceptable on the afternoon will "generally" fail you.

 

7 minutes ago, NahzSema said:

I still find it hard to believe one Unacceptable can still pass, especially if left completely blank. A friend of mine took PPI and said someone failed with a score of 33 in AM and A/A/IR/IR in PM. That already sounds BS to me that you can’t pass with that score. 

In my engineer head, I’m thinking...Say each problem contributes 25 pt in the PM. Maybe range of being Acceptable is 19-25 pt (76% and above), and IR is 15-18pt (60%-76%), and anything below 14 pt (<56%) is Unacceptable.

Based on that assumption, that PM score above gives a range of 68 to 86 pt. And even if you take 68 pt in PM and average it with 33/40 in AM, I’m still getting almost like 75% overall. And remember this is the low end of each range add up. If you take the high end, we get almost 85% overall. And with one Unacceptable, you can only match that if you score 95% in the morning. (95+75)/2=85...which is 38/40.

 

of course, this is all just assumptions and we will never find out how NCEES grade our exams. Hopefully @Chuckimus can enlighten me because I’m just SHOCKED.

I still find it hard to believe this.....

@Sheik had an impeccable afternoon with 4A and a 24/40 morning and still didn't cut it. I find this to be fundamentally wrong. How can someone who has proven competency across the entire afternoon session, covering all conventional construction materials, fail the exam with a 60% morning session (fairly shallow questions). I find this especially disturbing!!....This is also magnified when you contemplate that, with a little bit of luck, he could've bubbled a couple of correct questions and made it......

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@Hindianapolis

All I can say is that those of who that got so close to passing just had gotten the low end of the Acceptable spectrum. 60% in AM and 76% in PM is 68% overall...

I’d agree the cut score is 72-75%.

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so the PM is qualitative.....but also quantitative? Maybe....although i find it improbable in light of how subjective the responses of the PM can be. If the grading happens in a workshop, then there is likely going to be solution manual for the graders to follow. The requirement for the graders to have extensive industry experience is to allow them to identify deviations from the manual, but still follow the framework of the solution......I need not say that we are all shooting darts here. 

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11 hours ago, Chuckimus said:

I absolutely hate that about this exam. They don't tell us a damn thing about grading. And for us that aren't perfect at every test we take, being able to come up with a strategy is important. Mine turned into screw wood because it would be unethical for me to do anyway, as I have zero experience with it, and focus on what I know. I focused on concrete, steel, masonry, and analysis and did them completely. So I didn't fudge anything, I made sure it was correct and well explained. If you are struggling like me to pass (which I did, yay!), maybe try a different approach. I can't do four of those problems in four hours, and I don't think you should rush through something you haven't seen before 

I appreciate the input. I didn't really have much trouble though, I finished the morning a few minutes early and estimated 38/40 correct but the scores came back 23/40 and figured I had acceptable on all 4 in the afternoon but came back with A A A I/R. I really don't understand it. I didn't struggle with hardly anything in the morning, just a couple of bridge problems. I still can't understand exactly how this happened, but I know the cold formed steel problem was marked wrong and I was 100% sure I got that one as I pulled the information directly out of the AISI. It was something about a steel deck. Either these problems were way trickier than I thought (I saw a few tricks but missing 15 additional problems seems unlikely), my tick marks beside skipped problems and/or some checked and changed answers screwed the scantron (I've applied for manual verification so at least I can eliminate this upon receipt), or I misbubbled somewhere after skipping problems prior to going back and picking them up. I suspect I likely misbubbled as I went through code by code. I had around 10 to 15 minutes of review as well. I don't know, man. I'm really frustrated by this. The knowledge I have concerning this stuff now certainly isn't reflected in an UNACCEPTABLE score.

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1 hour ago, FutureSE said:

I appreciate the input. I didn't really have much trouble though, I finished the morning a few minutes early and estimated 38/40 correct but the scores came back 23/40 and figured I had acceptable on all 4 in the afternoon but came back with A A A I/R. I really don't understand it. I didn't struggle with hardly anything in the morning, just a couple of bridge problems. I still can't understand exactly how this happened, but I know the cold formed steel problem was marked wrong and I was 100% sure I got that one as I pulled the information directly out of the AISI. It was something about a steel deck. Either these problems were way trickier than I thought (I saw a few tricks but missing 15 additional problems seems unlikely), my tick marks beside skipped problems and/or some checked and changed answers screwed the scantron (I've applied for manual verification so at least I can eliminate this upon receipt), or I misbubbled somewhere after skipping problems prior to going back and picking them up. I suspect I likely misbubbled as I went through code by code. I had around 10 to 15 minutes of review as well. I don't know, man. I'm really frustrated by this. The knowledge I have concerning this stuff now certainly isn't reflected in an UNACCEPTABLE score.

Based on the data, that I have seen on different websites about the grading, I think they assign 10 points to each afternoon problem, so the whole exam will be 80 points and usually grades equal or above 56 ( >= 70%) are passed. Acceptable, will be assigned a grade of 8,  9  or 10 (I guess getting 10 out 10 is almost impossible). I/R has a grade of 6 or 7. Most probably, for the grades below 6 (Unacceptable) they put 0, to force the applicant to fail !!!!!! (which is totally UNFAIR in my mind) . Let's say that you got, A(9), A(9), A(8), I/R(6), with 23 in the morning, your grade is 55. What I want to say is that, you were SO, SO CLOSE. Therefore don't give up, you will easily pass it next time.

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19 hours ago, Nathan55 said:

I'd suggest going the balla route and taking the PE on friday, then the SE lateral on Saturday. If you did that well on the SE lateral and already passed the vertical, the PE structural exam should be a walk in the park.

Aside from the morning civil stuff, if you aren't a civil person... I had never seen the civil stuff before I started studying for the PE, my degree has more of a mechanical lean to it.  As in, up until me, they had all gone into Mechanical engineering.  :)

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In case someone missed it, here's the previous passing rates compared to David's post of this last exams passing rates. Looks like bridge lateral and vertical buildings were difficult this year.

On 6/14/2019 at 9:35 PM, TehMightyEngineer said:

SE Lateral Forces Bridges

38 16% 45 36% P&P Twice per year Dec 2018
SE Lateral Forces Buildings 241 36% 264 38% P&P Twice per year Dec 2018
SE Vertical Forces Bridges 44 32% 20 45% P&P Twice per year Dec 2018
SE Vertical Forces Buildings 300 36% 206 21% P&P Twice per year Dec 2018 
3 hours ago, David Connor, SE said:

 

April 2019.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, N_Mo said:

Based on the data, that I have seen on different websites about the grading, I think they assign 10 points to each afternoon problem, so the whole exam will be 80 points and usually grades equal or above 56 ( >= 70%) are passed. Acceptable, will be assigned a grade of 8,  9  or 10 (I guess getting 10 out 10 is almost impossible). I/R has a grade of 6 or 7. Most probably, for the grades below 6 (Unacceptable) they put 0, to force the applicant to fail !!!!!! (which is totally UNFAIR in my mind) . Let's say that you got, A(9), A(9), A(8), I/R(6), with 23 in the morning, your grade is 55. What I want to say is that, you were SO, SO CLOSE. Therefore don't give up, you will easily pass it next time.

Therein lies the Machiavellian genius of NCEES. Leaving an essay question blank nets you an unacceptable. Doing the problem completely can also get you an unacceptable. Explaining how to do a problem, and not really knowing what you're doing can get you an acceptable.

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@N_Mo

hmmm, interesting.

if that’s the case, it sounds like you can pass with 3A and 1UA (say 9 points each and I doubt they give 10/10) and only 29 in the morning...

Based on @TehMightyEngineer‘s collection, it just doesn’t add up to me. 

28+ in AM and 3A/1IR in PM ...is where I think the line is.

@Nathan55 and yes I feel ya. Sounds like they like to read more than looking at numbers

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28 minutes ago, Nathan55 said:

Therein lies the Machiavellian genius of NCEES. Leaving an essay question blank nets you an unacceptable. Doing the problem completely can also get you an unacceptable. Explaining how to do a problem, and not really knowing what you're doing can get you an acceptable.

That's why I called it totally UNFAIR. 

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8 minutes ago, NahzSema said:

@N_Mo

hmmm, interesting.

if that’s the case, it sounds like you can pass with 3A and 1UA (say 9 points each and I doubt they give 10/10) and only 29 in the morning...

Based on @TehMightyEngineer‘s collection, it just doesn’t add up to me. 

28+ in AM and 3A/1IR in PM ...is where I think the line is.

@Nathan55 and yes I feel ya. Sounds like they like to read more than looking at numbers

I meant that, if you have one 0 (UA), you will fail, regardless of the total grade. If you don't have that 0, then the total grade will determine if you passed or not. Basically, there are 2 criterias to determine passing of the exam. 1- No ZERO score in the afternoon 2- Total grade >=56

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2 hours ago, N_Mo said:

Based on the data, that I have seen on different websites about the grading, I think they assign 10 points to each afternoon problem, so the whole exam will be 80 points and usually grades equal or above 56 ( >= 70%) are passed. Acceptable, will be assigned a grade of 8,  9  or 10 (I guess getting 10 out 10 is almost impossible). I/R has a grade of 6 or 7. Most probably, for the grades below 6 (Unacceptable) they put 0, to force the applicant to fail !!!!!! (which is totally UNFAIR in my mind) . Let's say that you got, A(9), A(9), A(8), I/R(6), with 23 in the morning, your grade is 55. What I want to say is that, you were SO, SO CLOSE. Therefore don't give up, you will easily pass it next time.

I hear ya. It's just that I've got this stuff now. I had it when I took the test. My time was pretty decent too so there really isn't room for much improvement there. There really isn't anything much I could do for preparation other than go through the AASHTO a little better. I legitimately have (2) years of studying for this thing for (8) months out of the year approximately 16 hours a week. That's almost 1100 to 1200 hours of my life wasted on this. I realize seeing that number is almost unbelievable but just the coursework I've been through amounted to 195 hours and the test alone now is 32 hours. That's an awful lot of family time/sleep/movie watching/video game playing time to have lost. Almost (3) months of my life where every waking second would've been spent with my nose in a book or my head in a classroom for 16 hours a day! Like I said previously, I don't know what options I have because I DO NOT know why I failed. I did not feel tripped up 17 times in the morning. I felt tripped up twice and there was a third problem that was a little iffy (I thought I had it) but I thought that still gave me a huge buffer for passing (estimated as 9 to 10 problems I could've failed and still passed). I passed all of EET's coursework, problems, handouts, etc. no problem. Generally made 80% or higher on them and I felt a lot of their content was equal to or harder than the actual exam. I spent a little time trying to get the last three problems right after completion but I did notice the fact that the listed answers of the morning problems that I knew tripped me up were legitimate multiples of the actual answer. What this means (to me anyway) is, their problems are specifically set up to avoid elimination of easily identifiable incorrect answers. I couldn't find a way to backsolve the two that I knew got me because there were no outlying answers so to speak. At least 37 of the answers I calculated worked out almost exactly. Maybe it's like that Kung Fu parody movie where the master intentionally taught that one guy incorrect Kung Fu so he would constantly get beat down except I was the one learning Kung Fu except instead of Kung Fu it was Structural Engineering and instead of getting beat down it was failing the SE lateral. Oh fartsicles, Now I'm upset again.

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35 minutes ago, FutureSE said:

I hear ya. It's just that I've got this stuff now. I had it when I took the test. My time was pretty decent too so there really isn't room for much improvement there. There really isn't anything much I could do for preparation other than go through the AASHTO a little better. I legitimately have (2) years of studying for this thing for (8) months out of the year approximately 16 hours a week. That's almost 1100 to 1200 hours of my life wasted on this. I realize seeing that number is almost unbelievable but just the coursework I've been through amounted to 195 hours and the test alone now is 32 hours. That's an awful lot of family time/sleep/movie watching/video game playing time to have lost. Almost (3) months of my life where every waking second would've been spent with my nose in a book or my head in a classroom for 16 hours a day! Like I said previously, I don't know what options I have because I DO NOT know why I failed. I did not feel tripped up 17 times in the morning. I felt tripped up twice and there was a third problem that was a little iffy (I thought I had it) but I thought that still gave me a huge buffer for passing (estimated as 9 to 10 problems I could've failed and still passed). I passed all of EET's coursework, problems, handouts, etc. no problem. Generally made 80% or higher on them and I felt a lot of their content was equal to or harder than the actual exam. I spent a little time trying to get the last three problems right after completion but I did notice the fact that the listed answers of the morning problems that I knew tripped me up were legitimate multiples of the actual answer. What this means (to me anyway) is, their problems are specifically set up to avoid elimination of easily identifiable incorrect answers. I couldn't find a way to backsolve the two that I knew got me because there were no outlying answers so to speak. At least 37 of the answers I calculated worked out almost exactly. Maybe it's like that Kung Fu parody movie where the master intentionally taught that one guy incorrect Kung Fu so he would constantly get beat down except I was the one learning Kung Fu except instead of Kung Fu it was Structural Engineering and instead of getting beat down it was failing the SE lateral. Oh fartsicles, Now I'm upset again.

Let me share with you something @TehMightyEngineer shared with me a couple years back when I took the PPI course, just before he stopped teaching the course to build a aeroplane.  Just because you fail doesn't mean all the studying goes down the drain.  You are probably 95% of the way there, now you just need the extra 5%.

I bet your studying is actually done and you just need to work on speed and avoiding traps.  You took the EET course.  Every weekend, see how fast you can complete a homework set or the practice test, or even the PPI 6 min solutions or PPI building test.  That's just a four hour commitment each week, then you go back into that exam and CRUSH it.

I failed the vertical last fall after I thought I passed it.  Expected mid thirties on the morning, but got low twenties.  Did practice problems of vertical week before the exam, went in there, and CRUSHED it.

Also, i hear you on the bridge problems.  I thought they were very weird.

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1 hour ago, FutureSE said:

Maybe it's like that Kung Fu parody movie where the master intentionally taught that one guy incorrect Kung Fu so he would constantly get beat down except I was the one learning Kung Fu except instead of Kung Fu it was Structural Engineering and instead of getting beat down it was failing the SE lateral. Oh fartsicles, Now I'm upset again.

 

WimpLoSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d696t3yALAY

Please do let us know how the morning recheck goes.

Edited by Duke

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2 hours ago, TheBigGuy said:

Let me share with you something @TehMightyEngineer shared with me a couple years back when I took the PPI course, just before he stopped teaching the course to build a aeroplane.  Just because you fail doesn't mean all the studying goes down the drain.  You are probably 95% of the way there, now you just need the extra 5%.

I bet your studying is actually done and you just need to work on speed and avoiding traps.  You took the EET course.  Every weekend, see how fast you can complete a homework set or the practice test, or even the PPI 6 min solutions or PPI building test.  That's just a four hour commitment each week, then you go back into that exam and CRUSH it.

I failed the vertical last fall after I thought I passed it.  Expected mid thirties on the morning, but got low twenties.  Did practice problems of vertical week before the exam, went in there, and CRUSHED it.

Also, i hear you on the bridge problems.  I thought they were very weird.

I really do appreciate the cheerleading. The point is though, I have the speed, I finished the exam, and I explicitly know when to throw specific design principles. You're right about the studying. I'm done with that. I've read every single code section/book/whatever on anything they throw at you on the test for lateral and gravity. My only weak points in design are spiral reinforcement and the strut and tie method for concrete. Nothing weak in steel, I design connections all day long and I've been through those codes enough to wear the color off the tabs. Nothing in wood design. Nothing in masonry design. Fairly weak on AASHTO but I have absolutely not been able to motivate myself to learn it. I went through and tabbed all the major stuff, but dear sweet baby Jesus, I hate that book. It is yet another thing that I will NEVER use again. Regardless, what I was stating is that my competency in Lateral design is more than adequate. I didn't really "think" I got 37 right. I knew I did. Anyway, the point is, there really isn't much else I can do to increase my competency. I understand the stuff. It's like addition to me now. I don't really know how I could possibly get better at addition. I don't know how I could get better at this exam. I honest to apples do not know how I could not have passed... I swear, as shitty as my luck is, it's perfectly possible that I had the wrong scantron sheet and someone from Alabama is walking around with a damn unearned SE right now. I am THAT confident I understand what the fuck I'm doing.

Edited by FutureSE

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:56 AM, Chuckimus said:

It is possible, I think there is a threshold of acceptable, so maybe 70% correct of the problem is acceptable. So three of those with an unacceptable may not be passing, but three 100% acceptable and one unacceptable is passing. That's how I'm thinking of it at least.

This may be true but this strategy is probably not something I'd do myself or recommend to others. I would imagine the probability of getting 100% on 3 problems is a lot lower than getting say 70% on all 4 problems.  This exam is so difficult that you're better off attempting all the problems and trying to capture as many points as you can. Kudos to you if it worked out though.

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2 hours ago, Duke said:

 

WimpLoSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d696t3yALAY

Please do let us know how the morning recheck goes.

Will do. I don't even really have faith that they even look at it though. They could just take the money and go drinking. Another thing, I am so hung up on the incompetency of other engineers (I deal with a hell of a lot of delegated design) that I wouldn't doubt, if they even look at it, they check it upside down and actually lower my grade.

A couple examples of the shit I deal with on at least a weekly basis->>> I had a licensed engineer argue with me the other day about a damn handrail. The baseplate with (2) anchors placed 2" from the edge of a 5" by 5" post baseplate due to clearance issues. Think of it as rolling over the toe of a retaining wall footing. The engineer denied my calculations because I didn't check it in the other direction! Like rolling over the heel of a retaining wall if your heel is longer and larger than the toe. Last I checked the larger your "resisting" moment arm is, the lower your forces are.

I also had a city structural engineer argue with me about which direction you have to check deflection.This one is hard to explain, but basically I had a deflection of L/430 for a beam and this engineer was telling me it didn't meet L/360. I told him it was less that L/360 and tried to explain how larger denominators make smaller numbers all things being equal. He still argued with me. If I didn't live this stuff, I'd swear anyone telling me this was a liar but I can't make this shit up. Somehow these assholes are licensed and I'm over here with thumb firmly implanted in my rectum being teased about not being able to be licensed in GA. Good stuff.

Oh well, back to the luck thing. Nothing has ever been easy for me luck wise. I could walk outside and find $100 bill on the ground and somehow catch a flesh eating virus that costs my life savings to treat if I picked it up.

Oh well, this isn't the worst I've felt. I actually had a Secret Service investigation during Obama's presidency that made me feel much worse. Having federal agents declare you a domestic terrorist and telling you they can put you away without a trial for years thanks to the patriot act is much much worse. I survived that, I'll survive this.

Edited by FutureSE
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Turns out that Florida would not give me PE license even if I passed both SE exams. They stated that they don't acknowledge the SE exam, so I would still have to take the PE exam in order to become licensed. Wish someone had told me this 2 years ago before I started this mess. 

I am glad I have worked for the SE, because I feel I hardly knew anything before spending my time studying.

Taking the PE in October and will start trying for SE Lateral again next April and beyond!

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21 hours ago, FutureSE said:

I hear ya. It's just that I've got this stuff now. I had it when I took the test. My time was pretty decent too so there really isn't room for much improvement there. There really isn't anything much I could do for preparation other than go through the AASHTO a little better. I legitimately have (2) years of studying for this thing for (8) months out of the year approximately 16 hours a week. That's almost 1100 to 1200 hours of my life wasted on this. I realize seeing that number is almost unbelievable but just the coursework I've been through amounted to 195 hours and the test alone now is 32 hours. That's an awful lot of family time/sleep/movie watching/video game playing time to have lost. Almost (3) months of my life where every waking second would've been spent with my nose in a book or my head in a classroom for 16 hours a day! Like I said previously, I don't know what options I have because I DO NOT know why I failed. I did not feel tripped up 17 times in the morning. I felt tripped up twice and there was a third problem that was a little iffy (I thought I had it) but I thought that still gave me a huge buffer for passing (estimated as 9 to 10 problems I could've failed and still passed). I passed all of EET's coursework, problems, handouts, etc. no problem. Generally made 80% or higher on them and I felt a lot of their content was equal to or harder than the actual exam. I spent a little time trying to get the last three problems right after completion but I did notice the fact that the listed answers of the morning problems that I knew tripped me up were legitimate multiples of the actual answer. What this means (to me anyway) is, their problems are specifically set up to avoid elimination of easily identifiable incorrect answers. I couldn't find a way to backsolve the two that I knew got me because there were no outlying answers so to speak. At least 37 of the answers I calculated worked out almost exactly. Maybe it's like that Kung Fu parody movie where the master intentionally taught that one guy incorrect Kung Fu so he would constantly get beat down except I was the one learning Kung Fu except instead of Kung Fu it was Structural Engineering and instead of getting beat down it was failing the SE lateral. Oh fartsicles, Now I'm upset again.

I do think it is worth mentioning that you really rocked the afternoon. It's harder to well in the afternoon simply due to NCEES' shenanigans and the purposefully enigmatic grading procedures. The multiple choice is far easier, in my estimation, to improve on and excel it. SE multiple choice problems are really about identifying the common mistake or trick. You can purposefully solve a problem incorrectly and eliminate answers that way. The wrong answers are well thought out and designed to catch you in a mistake while we rush through the problems. 

If you got A, A, A, IR on the afternoon, it's very unlikely that retaking it in october would make you forget your modus operandi which was already so successful. That's why I say that the grading criteria is the true secret to passing the test. That's why they won't tell us what it is or how it functions. The way you work problems in the afternoon is absolutely in line with how the graders think you should solve problems. Perhaps modify that procedure for the morning and see how you do. It's far more difficult to do the reverse and figure out how to do afternoon problems in the way they approve. 

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1 hour ago, iDSE said:

Turns out that Florida would not give me PE license even if I passed both SE exams. They stated that they don't acknowledge the SE exam, so I would still have to take the PE exam in order to become licensed. Wish someone had told me this 2 years ago before I started this mess. 

I am glad I have worked for the SE, because I feel I hardly knew anything before spending my time studying.

Taking the PE in October and will start trying for SE Lateral again next April and beyond!

What? I have a Florida PE license and I've never taken the PE. Granted, Florida wasn't my first state so maybe that's the hold up?

See if you can get licensed in another state first and then licensed by comity in Florida.

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2 minutes ago, TehMightyEngineer said:

What? I have a Florida PE license and I've never taken the PE. Granted, Florida wasn't my first state so maybe that's the hold up?

See if you can get licensed in another state first and then licensed by comity in Florida.

That's what I would be doing if I had passed, but since I didn't pass lateral this go, I can't retake the SE lateral until I become licensed according to them now. (third fail) 

So I might as well take PE just to get the license and then go back to SE after they let me take it again.  

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