Wind Farms for Energy ...

[Desert Engineer]

I don't have a cam of them moving, but here's a picture -http://www.freefoto.com/images/39/01/39_01...ifornia_web.jpg

I drive by those everyday on my way to work.

 

[MGX]

Looks like Southwest Oklahoma.

 

[Wolverine]

Speaking from the Southeast, my big problem with wind is that from a planning criteria, you need a generation source that is ALWAYS available. The Southeast has a very specific load pattern - that is one hour of one day some time in the summer, you will have a peak demand point. The power system from generation to transmission to distribution must be designed to meet the load on that moment.

Reliable, always-on generation means nuclear, coal, gas (excluding for the sake of the argument the small contribution of bio-mass and hydro). As previously posed, you have to build something else to back up the wind in case it's not available. That makes wind useless for planning purposes.

Is there anyone here with planning experience in western states? I'd be interested in hearing how wind is modeled in the mix out there. Seems like I've heard a 20% of capacity number for reliability?

 

[benbo]

Is there anyone here with planning experience in western states? I'd be interested in hearing how wind is modeled in the mix out there. Seems like I've heard a 20% of capacity number for reliability?

I'm not in the planning side but I know a little about it.

You are right. That's the problem with wind - it is so unpredictable. I've seen people giving estimates everywhere from 10% to 30%. I've been involved with a group at NERC trying to get this GADS availability data collection for wind.

Out here in California we require utilities to both certify they have adequate resources to meet load, and that they have a certain portfolio of renewables. It is always sort of a guessing game in my opinion.

Practically speaking, the system operator first accepts all the renewables including hydro and other QF generation (cogen, etc.) and then cycles the fossil plants up and down to make up the difference, based on ramp rates, startup times, and heat rate. The nukes basically have to run at full load most of the time. So they still rely on fossil and nuke plants for reliability.

I've seen all sorts of proposals for storing the wind energy - everything from using it directly to pump water for pumped storage, to compressing air which is later used at turbine inlets. And some even wackier proposals. Someday they'll figure it out I guess.