Wind Farms for Energy ...

[Dleg]

^That's always been my big beef with wind generation - if you need to provide a reliable source of energy, you have to be able to back it up 100% with other sources. In which case, you're basically paying for twice as much generating equipment than you need, and a lot more (?) transmission equipment. Does the savings in fuel cost really make up for all that additional capital and maintenance?

 

[benbo]

^That's always been my big beef with wind generation - if you need to provide a reliable source of energy, you have to be able to back it up 100% with other sources. In which case, you're basically paying for twice as much generating equipment than you need, and a lot more (?) transmission equipment. Does the savings in fuel cost really make up for all that additional capital and maintenance?

You're right about wind power being unreliable and causing lots of problems that way.

However, because the generation system in any state has to be designed to have enough capability for the peak time, you always have more generating capacity than you need for most of the time. In California, a lot of fossil plants typically run at a 20% or lower capacity factor, meaning that over the year they only generate 20% of everything they could have generated.

The key is to have an adequate mix of generation. In a good snow year, a big portion of the load can be served with just nukes, hydro, cogenerators, and all the other renewables running and then adding the most efficient fossil plants. But you still have to have a bunch of inefficient old kluges and peaking plants around for the peak times.

 

[Ritchie503]

What I'm getting at is even though a lot of wind turbines are being built, it doesn't decrease the need for traditional fossil and nuke plants. And building both increases overall capital costs, and the cost of the end product.
I'm not saying that having wind power available isn't a good thing, and I'm not denying that the wind turbines will cause some offset of fossil-fuel burning, but I don't yet see it as an end-all to our energy problems.

I agree wind power is great as an additional source of energy. I have heard from a somewhat creditable source that on days where the wind isn't blowing, that the wind farms buy energy from the grid to keep their blades rotating as being stopped for a prolonged period of time would cause damage/warping of the bearings - thus on when it is a very hot/high demand day the wind farms are actually making the situation worse. Has anyone else ever heard of this? I have seen the blades not turning on some towers, not sure how long they were stopped. (Source is an experienced electrical inspector in Southern Minnesota where the number of wind turbines may soon outnumber the residents).

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1804102My work is done here.

I had heard of that video and now finally saw it. I am working on designing/building a plant in Iowa for a company who manufactures the blades for the wind turbines... Keep breaking blades to keep them busy (and all the new towers going up). I heard a rumor that the life of the blades is only about 15 years, not sure if this is true but will to confirm.

 

[Ritchie503]

I heard a rumor that the life of the blades is only about 15 years, not sure if this is true but will to confirm.

Talked with the company today who builds the blades, 15-20 years depending on who makes them is their life expectancy.

 

[benbo]

I agree wind power is great as an additional source of energy. I have heard from a somewhat creditable source that on days where the wind isn't blowing, that the wind farms buy energy from the grid to keep their blades rotating as being stopped for a prolonged period of time would cause damage/warping of the bearings - thus on when it is a very hot/high demand day the wind farms are actually making the situation worse. Has anyone else ever heard of this? I have seen the blades not turning on some towers, not sure how long they were stopped. (Source is an experienced electrical inspector in Southern Minnesota where the number of wind turbines may soon outnumber the residents).

Wind generation has parasitic load just like any other form of generation, but I assume it is a net generator or nobody would use it. For example, to adjust the pitch and yaw of the blades and point it into the wind obviously requires some small electric motors which move the blades. Also, since starting takes some extra torque they may have to use a little electricity to get the blades started on low wind days.

I don't know about the warping thing, that sounds a little weird but who knows. Steam turbines have to turn after use until they cool down.

 

[Dark Knight]

Benbo,

Not with highjacking purposes but I have a question: Is there any acres/MW ratio to follow if you want to install a solar generation facility?

 

[benbo]

Benbo,
Not with highjacking purposes but I have a question: Is there any acres/MW ratio to follow if you want to install a solar generation facility?

Sorry, I don't know but I'm sure somebody will.

I assume you are talking about photovoltaic type generation, because they also have those solar generators with parabolic mirriors and turbines.

You may be able to look up the specs at a commercial solar cell manufacturer. But you know there is generally somebody who knows something about almost everything at EB.com. THe trick is if they catch the post.

 

[Dark Knight]

Sorry, I don't know but I'm sure somebody will.
I assume you are talking about photovoltaic type generation, because they also have those solar generators with parabolic mirriors and turbines.

You may be able to look up the specs at a commercial solar cell manufacturer. But you know there is generally somebody who knows something about almost everything at EB.com. THe trick is if they catch the post.

Yes. It is about PV. Have you see KiloWatts Our?

I am hooked with PV!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[benbo]

Have you see KiloWatts Our?

No. What is it?

 

[Dark Knight]

No. What is it?

Check this link

Kilowatts Ours

If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

BIO, from what I remember, the theoretical best you can get from the sun is 900W/m^2and the best PV's are producing less than 300 W/m^2. I can't do the conversion for you now, but I hope maybe this helps.

 

[Dark Knight]

BIO, from what I remember, the theoretical best you can get from the sun is 900W/m^2and the best PV's are producing less than 300 W/m^2. I can't do the conversion for you now, but I hope maybe this helps.

Muchas Gracias mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

No hay problemo.

 

[C-Dog]

I was in Atlantic City this past weekend (lost $100 ) and got to see the 5 wind turbines they have there. Man what a site! They were churning in the wind. What a perfect application. All costal cities should have wind turbines.

Web Cam of Turbines

 

[C-Dog]

Check Architectural Wind from AVI, the famed maker of unmaned aircraft.

 

[Guest]

I was in Atlantic City this past weekend (lost $100 ) and got to see the 5 wind turbines they have there. Man what a site! They were churning in the wind. What a perfect application. All costal cities should have wind turbines.
Web Cam of Turbines

That's pretty cool! Are those wind turbines situated next to the wastewater treatment plant? (Edit: Duh, it says ACUA WWTP!) You can definitely tell it is a WWTP - I can see the clarifiers and primary settling tanks. Do you know if there is an energy recovery operation at the WWTP also?

JR

 

[benbo]

That's pretty cool! Are those wind turbines situated next to the wastewater treatment plant? (Edit: Duh, it says ACUA WWTP!) You can definitely tell it is a WWTP - I can see the clarifiers and primary settling tanks. Do you know if there is an energy recovery operation at the WWTP also?
JR

Man, you guys are deprived. Come out to California (Palm Springs) if you want to see a real windfarm.

 

[C-Dog]

:GotPics:

 

[benbo]

:GotPics:

I don't have a cam of them moving, but here's a picture -

http://www.freefoto.com/images/39/01/39_01...ifornia_web.jpg

 

[Dleg]

And those have been there for decades....