SE Exam Oct 2019 Result

[Nathan55]

I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?

Most definitely sir. That is what is confusing/annoying/frustrating about the test. I have seriously done afternoon problems and had NO IDEA what in the name of Abraham Lincoln I was doing...and gotten an acceptable. I have thrown things together in 30 minutes, figuring out and reading the code as I go along and gotten acceptable. As in, I'd never done that type of problem before, never studied it...nothing...and apparently aced it.

On the other hand, I have looked at a problem and been 100% confident, done it mostly without consulting practice problems or having that panicky "what do I do" moment and gotten unacceptable. That tells me a few things:

1. Process and procedure are paramount
2. You get points for showing what you know....but ALSO get points deducted for applying/knowing/using the wrong approach/method/procedure code reference. This means that this isn't partial credit like in college. NCEES doesn't show compassion cuz you "tried".
3. You can hide deficiencies in knowledge on the AM. But for the afternoon, if you don't know what you're doing, less is more. Putting too much information down can betray weaknesses and get points deducted, even if you "finish" every part of the problem.
4. For the morning, numbers and accuracy are key. For the afternoon, code checks and completeness are key. For example, say a problem is about seismic on "other" structures. If you use the wrong procedure, or incorrectly apply vertical seismic, you're better off not doing the problem since certain key procedural errors give you unacceptable and fail the entire test. 

 

[Sheik]

I'm not saying I buy the story either, but time is such a factor that it is plausible the examinee simply did not get to the last problem. I agree people can claim anything on here and I wouldn't believe most of it without seeing diagnostic reports. Even then, I would consider an image analysis before assuming the report wasn't altered. Failing an exam is embarrassing, but there is also no guarantee people on here claiming they took the exam actually did so. They could just be trolls.

Using the two "closest" candidates from the previous post and assuming they are both accurate and true, I'll do a little analysis of my own. There was a candidate claimed a 23/40 with AAAA. That would be a rough score of approximately 74% assuming the afternoon problems are graded at 10 points apiece and an "acceptable" result ranges from 8 to 10 points (this candidate would be assumed to have a 90% average in the afternoon). Combined with the 33/40 + AAAU, this would indicate a cut score of approximately 75% to pass the exam (if you assume this candidate received (2) 9s and an 8 they would receive a 74% as well). With that being the case, a passing score assuming an unattempted afternoon problem would be between 36/40 with a low acceptable on (3) in the afternoon or a 33/40 with (3) perfects in the afternoon. Again, all I can say is the plausibility is there.

23/40 - AAAA - I'm the poor guy.

 

[Hindianapolis]

23/40 - AAAA - I'm the poor guy.

Sheik...that was close man.

This time you shall pass...

 

[Titleistguy]

I met someone the day I took the test that scored like that he said in the past.   Said he crushed the PM and it was the am that got him.

 

[Sheik]

Sheik...that was close man.

This time you shall pass...

Thank you Friend! I am hoping for it. 

 

[tj_PE]

I guess what I'm asking is how big is that threshold from unacceptable to improvement required vs acceptable... is it an even 33,33,33 split or is it more like 0-50 is U, 51-80 is I, and 81 to 100 is A?

Bc I feel like the I grade actually starts below the passing threshold.  Which is why multiple I can still lead to a fail even if accompanied by two solid A and decent morning score.  

I got an IR on the wood problem last cycle and it would have been acceptable if i didn't completely bomb the geometry. i caught it and mentioned it, but it was SO BAD that it didn't get acceptable. 

I thought for sure I would have gotten unacceptable because it was such a mess. 

I'm not sure if that answers your question. I also quoted the wrong thing. 

It's too early.

 

[Titleistguy]

@Sheik

Ditto that man.  I hope you pass as well. 

 

[Sheik]

@Sheik

Ditto that man.  I hope you pass as well. 

Thanks and lets hope all of us pass this time. Even though the test is very difficult and challenging in many ways we are still trying our best to pass. I really appreciate everyone for their dedication.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

In all likelihood (at least from my experience), not only do you need a certain grade overall, but you are also required to have at least a 70% minimum on each part. If this is the case, you would need a minimum of 28/40 in the morning and roughly a IR IR IR IR to a A A A U in the afternoon to get a 70% average in morning and afternoon. I don't know but from the previous data, this analysis seems close to me but not quite there assuming an A is 8 to 10 points an IR gives 7/10 points and a U yields 0 points. It would seem you also have to have at least (2) Acceptable in the afternoon. Assuming this is correct, the absolute maximum FAILING score you could have by this system would be 28/40 with A IR IR IR (8+7+7+7 = 29). This would yield approximately 71% maximum failing score assuming both sections are passed and you need at least (2) Acceptable results in the afternoon as stated previously.

For example:

27-AAIU - [failed because both parts = approximately 27/40 ~ 68%]
....



 
 
TehMightyEngineer’s previous research 
 
33-AAAU - The examinee failed the afternoon. Anything less than (2) 10's and an 8 would fail. Minimum score is 71%, average is 75%, and high is 79%.
...

Interesting thought on the afternoon scoring (scored 1 to 10). This might be correct given how we supposedly have one person confident they got an unacceptable on an afternoon and passed. I always assumed that there was no "range" of scores that "acceptable" got you but looking at how each afternoon problem has multiple parts I could see how they could have such a 1-10 scoring system.

 

[dauwerda]

Most definitely sir. That is what is confusing/annoying/frustrating about the test. I have seriously done afternoon problems and had NO IDEA what in the name of Abraham Lincoln I was doing...and gotten an acceptable. I have thrown things together in 30 minutes, figuring out and reading the code as I go along and gotten acceptable. As in, I'd never done that type of problem before, never studied it...nothing...and apparently aced it.

I agree with this and have the same experience.

The issue with not knowing what we are doing and wading through the code to get the solution is that it tends to use up your time. So while the problem solution ends up structured just how the graders would like to see it, it doesn't allow enough time to do all 4 problems in this fashion.

 

[Nathan55]

Interesting thought on the afternoon scoring (scored 1 to 10). This might be correct given how we supposedly have one person confident they got an unacceptable on an afternoon and passed. I always assumed that there was no "range" of scores that "acceptable" got you but looking at how each afternoon problem has multiple parts I could see how they could have such a 1-10 scoring system.

I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.

And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.

And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.

I'm still thinking you get Zero points for an "Unacceptable". Otherwise, assuming you did two problems half ass and then did two perfectly, you could have AAUU and pass with a 30/40 (10+10+5+5=30/40). I believe I am a testament that this is "Unacceptable".

I'm not saying the scenario that I came up with is perfect, but with the data set I have, it fits the mold.

My formulation is as follows:

    Must pass morning with a minimum of 28/40 = 70% <-- No exceptions. Anything lower in the morning is an autofail, otherwise, several of us would already be SE bound.

Afternoon Grading: Must pass with a minimum of 28/40 points. <-- No exceptions. Anything lower in the afternoon is an autofail, otherwise, several of us would already be SE bound.

   Acceptable = 8 to 10 points

   Improvement required = 7 points

   Unacceptable = 0 points

In addition to the above requirements:

   Must have a minimum of (2) Acceptable grades in the afternoon. (4 IR would give you 28, but I doubt you pass with that score.)

   Must log on the www.engineerboards.com and praise NCEES for the excellent job they do.

Of course the other option is the 33/40 score with AAAU is a lie.

NCEES is the awesomest of all of the licensure organizations and everything they do is perfect because they are composed of perfect, supremely intelligent, and beautiful people.

By the way, I would like to spell out to everyone that South Carolina has one of the MOST professional Engineering Boards in the nation. I would definitely recommend taking the exam there to anyone.

 

[Sheik]

I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.

And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.

@Nathan,

That makes sense. in April, I felt I didn't do well in one of the PM problem and I got acceptable. Definitely there is a range for Acceptable , IR & UA. 

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Hey, err body! Only about 5 weeks to go until your dream comes true. Whether it’s a nightmare or not I can’t say...

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

@tj_PE, why you poop on everything I do?

 

[tj_PE]

@tj_PE, why you poop on everything I do?

:dunno:  

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

:dunno:  

It’s ok. I still love you.

 

[tj_PE]

It’s ok. I still love you.

if it helps i use the poop emoji for "oh shit" responses

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Just one more month...

 

[Titleistguy]

Just one more month...

One more month to convince myself that its not big deal if I fail, despite knowing it'll kill me inside.

I'd almost rather just not know.