Regulators Found liable

Professional Engineer & PE Exam Forum

Help Support Professional Engineer & PE Exam Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Wow!

Guess you state employees best not hold any grudges!

 
wow! good for the court system on this one, looks like they got it right

 
Hey Wilkes-Barre, that's where I am!!

Corruption in this area is common place anymore.

 
That will probably be overturned, IMO. If not, it would open up a whole world of frivolous or speculative lawsuits alleging the same thing against regulators anywhere. Well, at least in states where there are not existing laws providing protection and immunity.

If they clearly did wrong, then they should be held responsible. But the article did not sound that clear-cut to me. So a regulator admits to "being angry" - does that then prevent a regulator from taking action, if there is a violation?

The standard of proof would have to be exceptionally high in such a case.

Speaking as a regulator, you have to have some form of immunity. We don't carry guns, but we are in the business of "law enforcement", and law enforcers are given immunity from claims like this. Imagine if every cop could be sued by the people he arrests for being "angry" at them.

I'm pretty sure federal regulators are immune from such lawsuits....

 
That will probably be overturned, IMO. If not, it would open up a whole world of frivolous or speculative lawsuits alleging the same thing against regulators anywhere. Well, at least in states where there are not existing laws providing protection and immunity.
If they clearly did wrong, then they should be held responsible. But the article did not sound that clear-cut to me. So a regulator admits to "being angry" - does that then prevent a regulator from taking action, if there is a violation?

The standard of proof would have to be exceptionally high in such a case.

Speaking as a regulator, you have to have some form of immunity. We don't carry guns, but we are in the business of "law enforcement", and law enforcers are given immunity from claims like this. Imagine if every cop could be sued by the people he arrests for being "angry" at them.

I'm pretty sure federal regulators are immune from such lawsuits....

From what it sounds, all of their citations beyond the initial one that they made the complaint about were basically a "go over my head? Take that! And that!" There was probably a much more solid argument/more proof than what was being presented in that article.

 
I can't say that I disagree with the ruling, in that their actions did in fact violate procedure/protocol, and it did seem that the one fella had it out for this company. I really don't see how they went after personal liability though, particularly for the other three involved.

 
How on earth is a state employee supposed to pay those kinds of amounts? I now understand why our lawyer in the Attorney General's Office is so gun-shy.

 
That will probably be overturned, IMO. If not, it would open up a whole world of frivolous or speculative lawsuits alleging the same thing against regulators anywhere. Well, at least in states where there are not existing laws providing protection and immunity.
If they clearly did wrong, then they should be held responsible. But the article did not sound that clear-cut to me. So a regulator admits to "being angry" - does that then prevent a regulator from taking action, if there is a violation?

The standard of proof would have to be exceptionally high in such a case.

Speaking as a regulator, you have to have some form of immunity. We don't carry guns, but we are in the business of "law enforcement", and law enforcers are given immunity from claims like this. Imagine if every cop could be sued by the people he arrests for being "angry" at them.

I'm pretty sure federal regulators are immune from such lawsuits....
immunity being used as a shield for grudges or incompetence? - yikes! I'd prefer my regulators to be able to be held accountable. The wastewater plant I worked at got sued by some of the bigger industrial users when we tried to enforce our industrial pretreatment program (IPP). They actually won. Something to do with in-place service agreements when the plant got built (initially was private before it went POTW). Nontheless, we continued following the letter of the law even though we had no legal authority over them until those agreements expired. That saved us from getting sued by EPA for failure to implement an IPP. Anyways, immunity from prosecution I don't think extends to all govt agencies...or only applies to specific forms of prosecution (civil or criminal). And cops get sued all the time.

 
^I don't think the immunity ever applies if it can be proven you acted in a malicious manner toward someone. That's not what I'm talking about.

Look, here's the deal: I've been on the receiving end of several, similar accusations. In most cases, a disgruntled regulated entity will go straight to a politician, make up a sob story that usually involved accusations of personal grudges, incompetence, etc., and then myself and the other regulators get called in for a one-sided questioning or simple brow beating from the politician. There is no recourse for the regulator - it's always just our word against his, and there is no standard of proof when you're in a politician's office. If the politicians decide that they believe the person complaining about you (or if the person complaining about you has donated money to their campaign), they lean on your boss to fire you. You have absolutely no protection in this situation - a "firing" will be done in some way that leaves no ability for you to sue - in our case, they simply won't renew your yearly contract. You can't even sue for wrongful termination, because you weren't terminated, and you can't sue the original complainant because he is always careful enough to not put his accusations or request for your termination in writing, and the politician will NEVER take a regulator's side.

The "courts" are only a little different. Most regulatory court actions go before an administrative judge, which is often not exactly your most expereinced "judge", and not even in a court building. You get the same type of accusations in these "courts", but backed up by someone's lawyer who submits a long-winded pleading or whatever, full of cited case law (which WILL include this new ruling) justifying their position and justifying the legal reasons why the judge should find the regulators personally liable for having caused their poor, innocent client all this trouble. You get MAYBE a brief chance to answer "no, I did not ever say that" to the judge, but the opposing lawyers are usually good enough to know to keep you off the stand, or to at least keep those questions away from you. And these administrative judges are often in a hurry and not well versed in the technicailites of your profession, and usually write a final opinion that is loaded with factual errors and leaves you, the regulator, wrongly looking like an idiot. And your own agency lawyer is so busy that they rarely appeal, and NEVER request the judge to make technical/factual corrections on an opinion, for fear of opening it all back up again. Been there, done that.

So while I am sure that there are cases where regulators have stepped beyond their authority to wrongly punish someone, I also shudder at the thought of having another FALSE accusation brought against me by someone whose aim is to evade the law, and use me as the scapegoat to do so, and with this case prominently cited in their scheister lawyer's brief to the judge.

/end rant.

 
Back
Top