Masters with no Bachelors

[benbo]

Perhaps it was just at my school...but calc III was a two hundred level class taken in the first semester of your sophmore year....

It may depend on whether you were in a quarter or semester system. At UCSD there was a quarter system.

Freshman usually took Calc 1 - Differential calc, Calc 2 - Integral Calc, and Calc 3 - MVC, all in one year. Then there were two more quaters sophmore year - Calc 4 - ODE, and Calc 5 -Linear Algebra. Or something like that.

How long it took you depended on where you started, which depended on a math placement test, college credit, or AP credit.

I think after that you took another couple quarters of applied math for engineers, including some probability and stats. (at least for EEs).

 

[EM_PS]

At my Univ (semester based), calculus classes started in the 200 level, although you were still expected to take them freshmen year. linear alg was 300 level, but was taken sophmore year. I think it just varies from school to school (i.e., nominal course level means nothing).

 

[cdcengineer]

As an example... 21 years in the water and wastewater field, with 10 of those in direct supervision of large design projects?

Like I think I wrote earlier, in my state I believe this alone would qualify you for the EIT and the PE. I know other states are different.

My major concern is what the degree is now worth in the eyes of the industry. I know there are plenty of engineers out there that don't have the PE, but does my degree qualify me as an "engineer" now? I hope you understand my concern. Again, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Setting aside the PE, which may be a legal requirement for some jobs. And setting aside some jobs, such as government, which have specific requirements for degrees. If your experience is as it seems, I don't think you should have any trouble getting employment, and at a fairly high level. As someone who hired on frequent occasions in my past life , experience generally trumps degree at this pioint in a person's career. Although, like all things, it depends on the competition.

If you are going up against somebody with equal experience and a BS with no MS, I think you're in the running. If you are up against somebody with the same experience, a BS, and an MS, you may be at a slight disadvantage, which you'll have to overcome in the interview or by some other means (I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new here).

/inside joke

And if you can work a simple first order DE using an integrating factor, you are by definition performing advanced engineering mathematics, according to rppearso.

The last time I worked a simple 1st order DE was when studying for the FE/EIT. Not used in everyday engineering (at least in the industry I've been in). It would be great to make fatty cash to solve math problems.

Anyone know what a math professor gets paid $$$? Maybe a career change is in order. What would it take to make the jump from engineer to math prof.?

 

[Badger]

Hi,

In Washington from dol.wa.gov

To become a:

"Professional engineer

Before getting a license, you must meet all of the following requirements:

Pass the EIT (Engineer In Training exam).

Pass the PE (Principles and Practices of Engineering exam).

Have 8 years of professional-level experience under the direct supervision of a licensed engineer. (Education in an ABET-accredited program may count for up to 4 years of this experience.)

Note: For more information about exam requirements and schedules, see examinations.

Engineer-in-training certificate

Before you may apply for certification as an engineer-in-training, you must have either:

received a bachelor’s degree in an approved engineering curriculum.

obtained senior standing in an approved engineering curriculum.

OR

four years of experience (education, work experience, or both)."

I believe having a Master's degree only counts as one year towards the eight years of engineering experience required to sit for the PE. The ABET approved 4-yr engineering degree counts for 4 years of engineering experience towards the required eight years of engineering experience.

If you have four years of engineering experience under the direct supervision of a licensed engineer, you can take the EIT. Then after 4 more years of engineering experience under the direct supervision of a licensed engineer, you take the PE.

It all boils down to how much qualifing engineering experience you have, or what each state board allows. Contact a nearby state and see if you can apply to take the EIT.

I looked at the New Jersey website, and it appears they are pretty adamant about having the 4-yr degree. So even if you take the EIT else where they might not accept it. So I would contact them directly and find out.

You might have to contact your school and find out what you need to get an BS in engineering.

One thing for sure the rules are only going to get more strict.

 

[flocyoulater]

Thank you everyone for the help. I fully understand the qualifications, and I agree on them being strict. Unfortunately when I started the prerequisites and the Masters program I also looked into just getting the undergrad degree, but opted for the former route because at the time it seemed like the logical progression. Well, hindsight is 20/20, and if I knew then what I know now... Either way I would never want to buck the system. I put a lot of effort into the Masters and I'm graduating with high honors... next weekend actually. It was very challenging and it's a proud accomplishment for me. I really enjoy school, so if I can go back and fulfill the undergrad requirements I will. It would just be nice to get some credit for the coursework I've already taken. Thank you all again.

 

[Santiagj]

I know that Maryland has an option of taking the PE with 12 years engineering work experience without having to be an EIT. I'm sure you would qualify for that. Don't know how that affects reciprocity.

 

[MechGuy]

I didn't see this question specficially answered in the thread (i read through pretty fast though so my apologies if you already talked about this) -- but is your Master's degree ABET accredited? Not just the undergrad at the same school, but the graduate degree itself?

If it is, then many states will allow you to sit for the FE exam. That's how I was able to sit for it. My undergrad was not, but my graduate degree was ABET accredited, and that was good enough for Texas.

If neither are ABET accredited, I would guess you would have a hard time being able to sit for the exam in any state.

 

[HornTootinEE]

At my Univ (semester based), calculus classes started in the 200 level, although you were still expected to take them freshmen year. linear alg was 300 level, but was taken sophmore year. I think it just varies from school to school (i.e., nominal course level means nothing).

At my school, Calc I and II were 100 level, Calc III and Diff Eq were 200 level, with the intent you took a semester of Calc I your first semester freshmen year, then Calc II, etc. etc. We also had a Linear Algebra requirement. The Math Dept. Had two 3 versions of that class, one for most engineers, the next level for EEs, and the third level was a 400 level full blown linear class for math majors. I also ended up taking an "Intro to Advanced Math" class (300 level) and then a 400 level Numerical Analysis class to get my math minor... Not that it was worth it, the Math Minor hasn't meant a hill of beans..Although Numberical Analysis is a GREAT class. I would recommend it to any engineer or science major. Even if you don't exactly remember the math and how to prove something like Euler's Method, you'll remember how to pull a function out of data points, or integrate/differentiate with nothing but sampled data points (i.e. lab work or experiements)

I am not sure about Mech E, Civil E, etc, but as an EE once you get beyond basic circuits (into signals, emag, controls, etc.) your basic calculus skills are just that, basics.

I have seen programs where a "500" level class was exactly for people who were doing preqrequisites for a master's degree. It may be freshmen calculus level, but it's not geared towards freshmen. It's geared toward filling preqrequisites for working professionals, or those needing the refresher prior to a Master's degree. Give me 20 years in industry, I couldn't do a rigorous EE Masters. My math chops would be crap. Whether its as rigorous as Calc I or not, it's intent is not the same as good old Calculus I was.

 

[ptatohed]

I have a question I hope one of you may be able to answer, because I'm in a bit of a fix. I graduated with a BA in Political Science in 1993. After getting involved in the water and wastewater business, a degree in engineering became one of my future goals. When I found out that a program was offered online, it really peaked my interest. It was the Masters program, but I was told that I would qualify for it if I took some prerequisite coursework. I assumed (please don't say it) that the prerequisite coursework was the equivalent of the undergrade requirements for an engineering degree. I was required to take 12 credits... fundamentals, calc, diff eq and hydraulics.
Today I checked into applying for the EIT exam in NJ, and I was told the minimum qualification is a undergrad degree and that there are no exceptions given. My first thought is what the heck do I do? I never heard of anyone taking an undergrad program AFTER they completed the masters curriculum. Any help or advice that any of you could give me would be greatly appreciated. If I knew that the undergrad degree was specifically required, I would have opted for that locally instead... but hindsight is 20/20 of course. The second question is have any of you ever heard of someone getting a masters WITHOUT a bachelors in engineering? My major concern is what the degree is now worth in the eyes of the industry. I know there are plenty of engineers out there that don't have the PE, but does my degree qualify me as an "engineer" now? I hope you understand my concern. Again, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Bummer. CA requires 3 years of school or 3 years of experience to qualify for the FE.

P.S. It's piqued.

 

[yellowdoyle]

Bumping an old thread.

I have a BS in environmental science and am pursuing an MS in CE (really its EnviEng, but the degree is CE for some reason). I took the California FE exam in April 2012 and passed it. I also found that in CA, if you have a MS from a school with an accredited program (which my school is - for the BS degree, which is fine) your degree will count towards the PE. And, for some reason...it only requires 1 year of experience. The graduate degree counts for 5 of the 6 years required experience. (kinda weird).

I was a bit apprehensive about signing up the for MS program with a BS, but a senior engineer at my workplace actually has a BS in biology and an MS from the same program I am attending....and he is now a CA PE. That gave me the confidence to go ahead and sign up.

Now, passing the PE....that may be tough.

 

[new_injuneer]

The program the OP is discussing sounds like NJIT.

I was accepted to their Environmental Engineering Masters Program as well and considered doing it. But since I already have an Environmental Masters Degree, I opted for the bachelors.

NJ is one of the toughest states in which to earn your PE without a BS. I have met people and seen many linkedin resumes witout a BS in Engineering with PE Certification from NY, PA, and CA.

It also seems that Environmental is the only loophole where this occurs ... as in, if you worked in another civil discipline, it would be difficult to earn the experience to qualify to take the PE or even any experience at all without a BSE. Of course, I don't know this to be true. Just guessing.

 

[BrewingAz_PE]

I have a BS degree in Geology and a Master in Civil. I had no problems in Texas getting accepted to take the EIT.

I think I was accepted because 1) I have 10 years of working experience in the engineering inudstry, 2) My Geology degree was a BS, not BA like some schools offer, and 3) I had a Master degree in Civil. Otherwise, I think I would have been denied.

 

[John QPE]

I have a BS degree in Geology and a Master in Civil. I had no problems in Texas getting accepted to take the EIT.

I think I was accepted because 1) I have 10 years of working experience in the engineering inudstry, 2) My Geology degree was a BS, not BA like some schools offer, and 3) I had a Master degree in Civil. Otherwise, I think I would have been denied.

Up until a few years ago all you had to do was "ask" for a license in TX, right?

Not to drudge up this years old topic, but this original topic was in reference to The People's Republic of New Jersey. I know guys that are licensed in 25 states, with 40 years experience that are not licensed in NJ because of the undergrad thing. I also know kids with a BSCE and 4 years experience that are licensed in NJ, but couldn't tell you the difference between RCP and HDPE.

 

[NJmike PE]

I have a BS degree in Geology and a Master in Civil. I had no problems in Texas getting accepted to take the EIT.

I think I was accepted because 1) I have 10 years of working experience in the engineering inudstry, 2) My Geology degree was a BS, not BA like some schools offer, and 3) I had a Master degree in Civil. Otherwise, I think I would have been denied.

Up until a few years ago all you had to do was "ask" for a license in TX, right?

Not to drudge up this years old topic, but this original topic was in reference to The People's Republic of New Jersey. I know guys that are licensed in 25 states, with 40 years experience that are not licensed in NJ because of the undergrad thing. I also know kids with a BSCE and 4 years experience that are licensed in NJ, but couldn't tell you the difference between RCP and HDPE.

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[John QPE]

I have always been a strong advocate for cutting the bridges and letting NJ float away into the Atlantic. Beach-front condo in Philly, oh yeah!

 

[BrewingAz_PE]

I have a BS degree in Geology and a Master in Civil. I had no problems in Texas getting accepted to take the EIT.

I think I was accepted because 1) I have 10 years of working experience in the engineering inudstry, 2) My Geology degree was a BS, not BA like some schools offer, and 3) I had a Master degree in Civil. Otherwise, I think I would have been denied.

Up until a few years ago all you had to do was "ask" for a license in TX, right?

Not to drudge up this years old topic, but this original topic was in reference to The People's Republic of New Jersey. I know guys that are licensed in 25 states, with 40 years experience that are not licensed in NJ because of the undergrad thing. I also know kids with a BSCE and 4 years experience that are licensed in NJ, but couldn't tell you the difference between RCP and HDPE.

I doubt it was ever that easy to get one in TX. I've lived here for less than 2 years though, so I could be mistaken.