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ductit said:
Didn't they say this happened with an hour left? At that point, I think they should just let you finish, and let NCEES decide what they want to do.  The problem is, they should have done this during the morning exam, people wear these things on the wrist right? Sounds like the proctors were either A) Not told to check, or B) Didn't bother checking.

If you dont have your phone with you (you are not allow to have it with you), the thing isn't going to be able to "communicate" with anything anyways. I don't think they were out of line in removing the people, I just think that the more appropriate response, 7 hours into the exam, would be to have them finish, and let NCEES decide. 
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And continue to potentially let an individual communicate for another hour after being caught?  Please tell me how that makes sense.

 
Audi driver said:
And continue to potentially let an individual communicate for another hour after being caught?  Please tell me how that makes sense.
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Key word, "potentially", and we are talking about 7 hours into an 8 hour exam.  Any damage would have already been done, but that is assuming someone actually modified their fitbit with additional hardware so that it could beam test questions out of the building since bluetooth range is only 20 feet with no obstructions.  It would be easier to just modify a stop watch to do the same thing, and stop watched are perfectly acceptable.  It is a question of practicality, the proctors screwed up in not telling people.  How many people wore them during the AM, and then took them off when someone told them before the PM?  How many people saw what was happening and quickly took theirs off and put it in their pocket. 

I was wearing a hoodie, you could not even see my wrists, no one asked to see my wrists, so what, they just scan the room and toss a bunch of people with an hour left? Sorry, I just do not agree, but like i said, it is buried in the agreement, so it is their own fault for wearing it. I get it though, I would never even have thought that one of those wouldn't be allowed, and I definitely do not remember seeing that in there even though I read it before and twice during...

 
ductit said:
Key word, "potentially", and we are talking about 7 hours into an 8 hour exam.  Any damage would have already been done, but that is assuming someone actually modified their fitbit with additional hardware so that it could beam test questions out of the building since bluetooth range is only 20 feet with no obstructions.  It would be easier to just modify a stop watch to do the same thing, and stop watched are perfectly acceptable.  It is a question of practicality, the proctors screwed up in not telling people.  How many people wore them during the AM, and then took them off when someone told them before the PM?  How many people saw what was happening and quickly took theirs off and put it in their pocket. 

I was wearing a hoodie, you could not even see my wrists, no one asked to see my wrists, so what, they just scan the room and toss a bunch of people with an hour left? Sorry, I just do not agree, but like i said, it is buried in the agreement, so it is their own fault for wearing it. I get it though, I would never even have thought that one of those wouldn't be allowed, and I definitely do not remember seeing that in there even though I read it before and twice during...
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Of course "potentially" is the key word.  It is this potential NCEES is concerned with.  You might note that "hoodies" are not allowed either.

 
I thought hoodies were ok as long as you didn't put the hood on your head?

 
Agreement Here: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ExamineeGuide_1-13-16.pdf

On page 27 you find the section "Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of Exam Results"

Note that it is "Ground for" and the critical part, "and/or Invalidation".  The rules do not "require" them to dismiss you for having one of those items; however, they will confiscate it and send it to NCEES if you are found to have it after the exam begins.  So like I said, 7 hours in, I really feel they should have confiscated and sent them to NCEES to determine if those peoples exams should be invalidated.  And I wasn't wearing an actual "hoodie", the hood park was more of a collar, just easier to picture what I was talking about by saying hoodie. 

 
This is all semantics, whether or not the device has recording/transmitting capabilities is immaterial.  Because not all testing locations have proctors with a sense of technical aptitude, NCEES made the command decision to ban them across the board.  Case closed.  I agree that the specific situation described by the OP is pretty ridiculous.  But as already has been echoed, rules are rules.

 
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Oh wow!  

I took the exam on Friday in pa, pcs proctor.    I had on my garmin watch that I use for running (only watch I own).    Just prior to the exam, the proctors were reading the rules of he mentioned that watches with heart rate monitors are not to be worn.  I immediately raised my hand and informed them that my watch had this capability.  They simply had me take it off and give it to a proctor until after the am session ( I took it to my vehicle then).    

At lunch I noticed three other people at lunch wearing similar watches.   Go figure, but I wasn't going to take a chance especially when I was sitting front row.    I'm very glad I did after reading this today!

 
ductit said:
Agreement Here: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ExamineeGuide_1-13-16.pdf

On page 27 you find the section "Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of Exam Results"

Note that it is "Ground for" and the critical part, "and/or Invalidation".  The rules do not "require" them to dismiss you for having one of those items; however, they will confiscate it and send it to NCEES if you are found to have it after the exam begins.  So like I said, 7 hours in, I really feel they should have confiscated and sent them to NCEES to determine if those peoples exams should be invalidated.  And I wasn't wearing an actual "hoodie", the hood park was more of a collar, just easier to picture what I was talking about by saying hoodie. 
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Seems like a hood is much different from a collar, but whatever.  In any case, the way I read it if he wasn't dismissed, the exam would be invalidated.

 
Audi driver said:
Seems like a hood is much different from a collar, but whatever.  In any case, the way I read it if he wasn't dismissed, the exam would be invalidated.
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Yeah and I was talking about the sleeves, as in heavy cotton like a hoodie, not sure how having a hood would have anything to do with being able to see something on my wrist...  And as to the original subject, reread the agreement, they do not have to dismiss or invalidate, they just have "Grounds for" doing one or both.  They wrote it like that for a reason, they wanted the discretion.  Do you think it matters whether or not a contract says "should" or "shall"? Same concept. 

 
ntp8r.jpg


I'm waiting for when NCEES makes you wear clear plastic clothing, like taking a bag into a professional sports game. 

 
ductit said:
Yeah and I was talking about the sleeves, as in heavy cotton like a hoodie, not sure how having a hood would have anything to do with being able to see something on my wrist...  And as to the original subject, reread the agreement, they do not have to dismiss or invalidate, they just have "Grounds for" doing one or both.  They wrote it like that for a reason, they wanted the discretion.  Do you think it matters whether or not a contract says "should" or "shall"? Same concept. 
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Well it doesn't have anything to do with wrists.  You said "hoodie" and I merely reacted to that.  "Grounds for" is pretty concrete.  Conditions were met.  Sure the proctors have discretion.  They apparently used it.  You can argue all day as to whether it was an appropriate choice, but I seriously doubt the NCEES is going to disagree with the decision made on the spot.  Your argument is with them, not me as it is their rule.  As I noted above, since the device is a "communicating device" (however inept it may be at it) leaving the examinee in the room to finish would potentially allow for a whole hour to continue to "communicate" with it or even begin to.  No one knows whether the individual had planned to use the last hour, if available, to share test information or get answers or whatever.  It could happen at any time during the exam.  You sound as if there is some magic to the last hour that it would never be used for nefarious activity.  To me dismissal sounds like the right choice, given the circumstances.

 
Audi driver said:
Well it doesn't have anything to do with wrists.  You said "hoodie" and I merely reacted to that.  "Grounds for" is pretty concrete.  Conditions were met.  Sure the proctors have discretion.  They apparently used it.  You can argue all day as to whether it was an appropriate choice, but I seriously doubt the NCEES is going to disagree with the decision made on the spot.  Your argument is with them, not me as it is their rule.  As I noted above, since the device is a "communicating device" (however inept it may be at it) leaving the examinee in the room to finish would potentially allow for a whole hour to continue to "communicate" with it or even begin to.  No one knows whether the individual had planned to use the last hour, if available, to share test information or get answers or whatever.  It could happen at any time during the exam.  You sound as if there is some magic to the last hour that it would never be used for nefarious activity.  To me dismissal sounds like the right choice, given the circumstances.
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You understand what the word "confiscate" means right? How are they going to continue to "communicate", if they do not have it anymore? The agreement requires it be confiscated, and allows for the proctor to dismiss.  You can argue all day long about your opinion, and so can I, but there really is no other way to interpret the agreement other than that having it gave them the "Grounds for" choosing to exercise the option to "dismiss". 

 
snickerd3 said:
yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned
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If electronic and it communicates, seems like it is.  It's just not explicitly listed (they do list watches so I would imagine it would fall into that category):

Having a device with copying, recording, or communication capabilities
in your possession. These include but are not limited to cameras, pagers,
PDAs, radios, headsets, tape players, calculator watches, smartwatches,
electronic dictionaries, electronic translators, transmitting devices, fitness
 
at the very least, I think the situation would be good reminder for  an NCEES newletter article as a reminder to all future examinees.  

 

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