Cut Score...

[chaocl]

Except Georgia... they use 65 as a passing grade for veterans.

I am a veteran in other country. Does it count?

 

[IlPadrino]

I am a veteran in other country. Does it count?

Uh... I'm guessing no. But do some due diligence and you'll know for sure.

 

[JoeysVee]

Except Georgia... they use 65 as a passing grade for veterans.

I am a veteran in other country. Does it count?

What country?

 

[chaocl]

Except Georgia... they use 65 as a passing grade for veterans.

I am a veteran in other country. Does it count?

What country?

I am just kidding. I am not a veterans.

 

[juan]

The theory could be this:

If you had 40 questions in the morning session and 40 questions in the afternoon session, for each correct answer in the morning you will receive one point. For each correct answer in the afternoon you will receive one point. Thus the maximum possible total of points is 80. This is referred to as the “raw score”.

Your exam results are determined by the number of items you answered correctly for the exam in its entirety. There are no minimum requirements for particular sections of topics within an exam. You are not penalized for incorrect answers.

The raw score is then converted into “raw passing score” to determine the level of performance that corresponds with minimal competence in that discipline. This raw passing score is from 0 to 100. And the conversion from raw score to raw passing score is not linear. Thus 80 points in the raw score is as 100 raw passing points, but 40 points in the raw score is not 50 raw passing points.

Testing experts determines that conversion and it is adjusted every exam in order to maintain the same difficulty of the passing for every exam. Essentially, this means that while the numerical passing score may change with each administration, you are not disadvantaged when one administration of a particular exam is more difficult than another.

If testing experts expect the highly skilled individuals to answer 70% - 80% of the raw score (The exact weights vary, based on the difficulty of the particular exam), then the raw passing score would set between 70% of 70% = 49% and 70% of 80% = 56%. For example, if they expect the best engineers to know 80% of the exam and if the passing rate is 70%, it would correspond to about 45 correct answers.

All exams are scored the same way. First-time takers and repeat takers are graded to the same standard.

So again, using this assumption, if you don’t pass is because you didn’t get about 55% of the questions in the entire exam right, and the next try will be more difficult to pass, that is the reason for the low pass rates in repeat takers and they need to take the exam several times in order to pass. We found large differences in pass rates between first-time takers and repeat takers.

Good luck to everyone….

 

[benbo]

The theory could be this:

If testing experts expect the highly skilled individuals to answer 70% - 80% of the raw score (The exact weights vary, based on the difficulty of the particular exam), then the raw passing score would set between 70% of 70% = 49% and 70% of 80% = 56%. For example, if they expect the best engineers to know 80% of the exam and if the passing rate is 70%, it would correspond to about 45 correct answers.

All exams are scored the same way. First-time takers and repeat takers are graded to the same standard.

So again, using this assumption, if you don’t pass is because you didn’t get about 55% of the questions in the entire exam right, and the next try will be more difficult to pass, that is the reason for the low pass rates in repeat takers and they need to take the exam several times in order to pass. We found large differences in pass rates between first-time takers and repeat takers.

Good luck to everyone….

I guess the theory could be this, but I honestly don't know where you get any of this. I think it is fairly well established from failing diagnostics that you have to get well above 55% to pass the PE. The FE is another matter - it probably has a lower test score.

 

[hansel]

The theory could be this:
If you had 40 questions in the morning session and 40 questions in the afternoon session, for each correct answer in the morning you will receive one point. For each correct answer in the afternoon you will receive one point. Thus the maximum possible total of points is 80. This is referred to as the “raw score”.

Your exam results are determined by the number of items you answered correctly for the exam in its entirety. There are no minimum requirements for particular sections of topics within an exam. You are not penalized for incorrect answers.

The raw score is then converted into “raw passing score” to determine the level of performance that corresponds with minimal competence in that discipline. This raw passing score is from 0 to 100. And the conversion from raw score to raw passing score is not linear. Thus 80 points in the raw score is as 100 raw passing points, but 40 points in the raw score is not 50 raw passing points.

Testing experts determines that conversion and it is adjusted every exam in order to maintain the same difficulty of the passing for every exam. Essentially, this means that while the numerical passing score may change with each administration, you are not disadvantaged when one administration of a particular exam is more difficult than another.

If testing experts expect the highly skilled individuals to answer 70% - 80% of the raw score (The exact weights vary, based on the difficulty of the particular exam), then the raw passing score would set between 70% of 70% = 49% and 70% of 80% = 56%. For example, if they expect the best engineers to know 80% of the exam and if the passing rate is 70%, it would correspond to about 45 correct answers.

All exams are scored the same way. First-time takers and repeat takers are graded to the same standard.

So again, using this assumption, if you don’t pass is because you didn’t get about 55% of the questions in the entire exam right, and the next try will be more difficult to pass, that is the reason for the low pass rates in repeat takers and they need to take the exam several times in order to pass. We found large differences in pass rates between first-time takers and repeat takers.

Good luck to everyone….

Man! Just your third post and you are already talking like an NCEES insider. I want to believe you and at the same time I don't want to. Yes, it always seems weird to me why repeat takers pass rates are lower than first time takers pass rate.

 

[benbo]

There are people who work with me that have taken the test 5 times or more and failed to pass because they just go in and wing it and hope for a miracle. These are all repeat takers, obviously. THat's why their pass rates are lower.

For whatever reason they didn't pass the first time, they don't pass the second, third or fourth time.

I don't see why this is hard to understand.

 

[hansel]

There are people who work with me that have taken the test 5 times or more and failed to pass because they just go in and wing it and hope for a miracle. These are all repeat takers, obviously. THat's why their pass rates are lower.
For whatever reason they didn't pass the first time, they don't pass the second, third or fourth time.

I don't see why this is hard to understand.

Benbo,

It is hard to understand for some of us who "though" that they put a lot of time in studying for their second try but it still did not work. Still I don't blame anybody or some "standard" but myself. Just to ask you, you think that the percentage of repeat takers who go in this test with determination to pass is lower compared to the percentage of first time takers who go in with the same determination?

 

[benbo]

There are people who work with me that have taken the test 5 times or more and failed to pass because they just go in and wing it and hope for a miracle. These are all repeat takers, obviously. THat's why their pass rates are lower.
For whatever reason they didn't pass the first time, they don't pass the second, third or fourth time.

I don't see why this is hard to understand.

Benbo,

It is hard to understand for some of us who "though" that they put a lot of time in studying for their second try but it still did not work. Still I don't blame anybody or some "standard" but myself. Just to ask you, you think that the percentage of repeat takers who go in this test with determination to pass is lower compared to the percentage of first time takers who go in with the same determination?

THere are many reasons why people don't pass the exam.

There are also lots of repeat takers who study hard and just miss by a point or two. That is just luck.

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it. That makes them repeat takers. I think that if you would go in without studying the first time, you are more likely than the average person to do it again without studying. And I do know a number of people who are multiple repeat takers, and I mean up to 10 times, that just never study. And yes, I do believe that is more prevalent among repeat takers than among first time takers.

I also believe that for whatever reason people don't pass the first time, they are more likely not to pass on a repeat administration. It may be something totally out of their control, and may not even indicate how good they are as an engineer. For example, some people just have extreme test anxiety. If they have it the first time, they will likely have it even worse the second time, making it even harder for them to pass.

What really bugs me is some sort of belief that there is a different cut score for repeat takers, or some grand conspiracy against them when it just isn't true.

 

[IlPadrino]

you think that the percentage of repeat takers who go in this test with determination to pass is lower compared to the percentage of first time takers who go in with the same determination?

I'd look at it this way... the first time takers pool includes some people that will pass regardless of determination. Once these floaters are skimmed off when they pass, the percentage of sinkers increases. I think determination will certain help the sinkers float, but it's not going to raise the percentage enough to offset the lack of first time floaters.

 

[EM_PS]

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it.

the other two guys who were writing the PS with me this Oct. both admitted neither had really studied and one just flat out stated he wanted to take it just to see what its like. They didnt bring much in the way of references / texts either, so i know their chances were probably worse than 50-50. I just don't get this mentality! These tests costs $250-300+- to take, i don't understand why people like pissing that $$ down the drain, all the moreso if they end up taking multiple times.

 

[hansel]

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it.

I just don't get this mentality! These tests costs $250-300+- to take, i don't understand why people like pissing that $$ down the drain, all the moreso if they end up taking multiple times.

Money is one of the reason I think most repeat takers don't just go into this test unless somebody is paying for their test every single try. Engineers are not paid well enough to afford to through money down the drain like that. I mean, 300 x 10 times = 3000 dows!!!

One thing I would like to point out, some people would also tell you "I did not really study" just to lower the expectation.

 

[IlPadrino]

What really bugs me is some sort of belief that there is a different cut score for repeat takers, or some grand conspiracy against them when it just isn't true.

It's certain the exam is designed to find the "minimally competent engineer" and that's only true if the standard is the same for all test takers.

 

[benbo]

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it.

I just don't get this mentality! These tests costs $250-300+- to take, i don't understand why people like pissing that $$ down the drain, all the moreso if they end up taking multiple times.

Money is one of the reason I think most repeat takers don't just go into this test unless somebody is paying for their test every single try. Engineers are not paid well enough to afford to through money down the drain like that. I mean, 300 x 10 times = 3000 dows!!!

One thing I would like to point out, some people would also tell you "I did not really study" just to lower the expectation.

Nope. THese are people I work very closely with - they wouldn't bs me. THey are actually given time at work to study for the test and they don't. I'd be shocked if they weren't using the time at work but were studying their asses off on their own time.

 

[IlPadrino]

Nope. THese are people I work very closely with - they wouldn't bs me. THey are actually given time at work to study for the test and they don't.

I know an ME who's taken the exam four times and refuses to study. It's so bad that last year, she didn't have the MERM with her so she just borrowed the CERM and hoped for the best. I think she's been within a few questions of passing a couple of times. And you know what they say... every know and again even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

 

[Kephart P.E.]

I also think that for certain disciplines the pass rates are higher or lower based on need.

Civils really need a PE more than a Mech. so they are more willing to re-take. I can imagine a lot of Mech if they don't pass they just give up cause it really isn't going to help them a ton anyway depending on your field. Where this isn't the case for almost all Civils.

 

[Kephart P.E.]

Nope. THese are people I work very closely with - they wouldn't bs me. THey are actually given time at work to study for the test and they don't.

I know an ME who's taken the exam four times and refuses to study. It's so bad that last year, she didn't have the MERM with her so she just borrowed the CERM and hoped for the best. I think she's been within a few questions of passing a couple of times. And you know what they say... every know and again even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I know I was almost in this case. I really considered not studing at all and seeing if I could pass. This is how I passed the FE.

So I tried some example questions and was pretty sure I would fail and I didn't want to take it twice.

Luckily for me my boss let me do some studying during my downtime on the clock.

 

[DVINNY]

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it.

the other two guys who were writing the PS with me this Oct. both admitted neither had really studied and one just flat out stated he wanted to take it just to see what its like. They didnt bring much in the way of references / texts either, so i know their chances were probably worse than 50-50. I just don't get this mentality! These tests costs $250-300+- to take, i don't understand why people like pissing that $$ down the drain, all the moreso if they end up taking multiple times.

Since I have passed the exam and have no reason to lie about it now. I am one of those people. I took the test without really studying at all the first time. I went in with just an old CERM that was 2 editions old, and decided to 'see what it was like'. I failed miserably. Then I decided to try again. The second time I was convinced I would study, etc. etc. so I paid the fee and sent in the re-app. But with a new baby in the house, and many other things happening, I ended up studying for just a few weeks. This didn't work either.

If I would have put my latter efforts into the first time I took the test, I'm not sure if I would have passed or not, but I think I'd have been close.

My point is; many peoples circumstances change from application time to test time, and there are many reasons why someone may not study properly to pass. I pissed all that $$ down the drain, but it wasn't because that's how I had planned it.

 

[Slugger926]

A lot of people just go in without studying the first time to try it out and then have to repeat it.

the other two guys who were writing the PS with me this Oct. both admitted neither had really studied and one just flat out stated he wanted to take it just to see what its like. They didnt bring much in the way of references / texts either, so i know their chances were probably worse than 50-50. I just don't get this mentality! These tests costs $250-300+- to take, i don't understand why people like pissing that $$ down the drain, all the moreso if they end up taking multiple times.

Since I have passed the exam and have no reason to lie about it now. I am one of those people. I took the test without really studying at all the first time. I went in with just an old CERM that was 2 editions old, and decided to 'see what it was like'. I failed miserably. Then I decided to try again. The second time I was convinced I would study, etc. etc. so I paid the fee and sent in the re-app. But with a new baby in the house, and many other things happening, I ended up studying for just a few weeks. This didn't work either.

If I would have put my latter efforts into the first time I took the test, I'm not sure if I would have passed or not, but I think I'd have been close.

My point is; many peoples circumstances change from application time to test time, and there are many reasons why someone may not study properly to pass. I pissed all that $$ down the drain, but it wasn't because that's how I had planned it.

I am in the same boat with ya DV. First time we went through a miscarriage, so my wife pretty much kept me from studying (missed by one question). 2nd time, my inlaws came the week before the exam instead of the week after the exam when they were supposed to but they just wanted to see their new grandaughter (missed by one question).

The third time, I took a few days off to stay at a hotel in the city of the test. I got away and got my references organized. For me, the toughest part was the endurance of solving problems for 8 hours straight and finding references quickly. My exam covered a lot of various areas from mechanical, to environmental, to civil, to electrical, and even structural.

Being rested, relaxed, organized, and having endurance built up for me was actually more important than studying. What is there to study when you already know how to solve the problems you covered in school?