What state to get SE license?

[TehMightyEngineer]

that is highly illogical. if my card is from new york and ends up in new jersey, they could say the same thing about the PE. i'm not licensed in NJ regardless. Why would any of this matter if i am only offering services in the state in which i am licensed?

Super illogical but since when has that stopped people from causing legal trouble. Only took me a little bit to dig up one of these:

HOUSTON, STANLEY M., III
Unlicensed
Citation 5096-U
Final: December 30, 2001
Action: Order of Abatement, $500 Fine

Investigation revealed that Stanley M. Houston III violated section 6787(h) of the Business and Professions Code. The records of the Board show that Stanley M. Houston III is not licensed by the Board as a Professional Engineer. Investigation revealed that Houston used the initials "P.E.," An abbreviation of a restricted titled, on his business cards. Houston was ordered to cease and desist violating the law and to pay an administrative fine to the Board in the amount of $500.00.

Also, this article from ASCE: http://www.asce.org/question-of-ethics-articles/nov-2007/

What would the NJ board do? put a strike against my non existent license?

They give you a cease and desist order, a fine, and then refer your case to the attorneys general office which can bring further charges against you if it was egregious.

 

[OHBridgeGuy]

i think people who took the SE test is making too much of a deal regrading the designation beside their name.

I think something that should clarify my statement, if you have not taken the SE exam but work in structural engineering I think this would be perfectly appropriate:

John Doe, PE

Structural Engineer

XXXXX Firm

In fact before my PE I often put my name, EI then "Project Structural Engineer" below.  My state allows the use of the term "engineer" for anyone who has an ABET BS degree in engineering, but even that can be a state by state difference - in some you must be a licensed PE to use the term.

What I don't think would be allowable is this:

John Doe, PE, SE

XXXXXX Firm

The "SE" designation after the name is commonly understood to mean the test and associated license, and I think invites inquiry.  

Super illogical but since when has that stopped people from causing legal trouble.

I agree, sometimes it can seem illogical or overly anal regulating these designations but until all the states get on board with passing legislation to normalize all the language, it is what we have to deal with.  

 

[sayed]

Super illogical but since when has that stopped people from causing legal trouble. Only took me a little bit to dig up one of these:

HOUSTON, STANLEY M., III
Unlicensed
Citation 5096-U
Final: December 30, 2001
Action: Order of Abatement, $500 Fine

Investigation revealed that Stanley M. Houston III violated section 6787(h) of the Business and Professions Code. The records of the Board show that Stanley M. Houston III is not licensed by the Board as a Professional Engineer. Investigation revealed that Houston used the initials "P.E.," An abbreviation of a restricted titled, on his business cards. Houston was ordered to cease and desist violating the law and to pay an administrative fine to the Board in the amount of $500.00.

Also, this article from ASCE: http://www.asce.org/question-of-ethics-articles/nov-2007/

Funny scenario, if my name were, Peter Edward Adams, i would be fined for having a  business card that says, P.E. Adams?  Something tells me, PROBABLY! lol

They give you a cease and desist order, a fine, and then refer your case to the attorneys general office which can bring further charges against you if it was egregious.

They'd have no jurisdiction over me.   Especially since there'd be no business under my name that operates in NJ offering any sort of service.
 

I think something that should clarify my statement, if you have not taken the SE exam but work in structural engineering I think this would be perfectly appropriate:

John Doe, PE

Structural Engineer

XXXXX Firm

In fact before my PE I often put my name, EI then "Project Structural Engineer" below.  My state allows the use of the term "engineer" for anyone who has an ABET BS degree in engineering, but even that can be a state by state difference - in some you must be a licensed PE to use the term.

What I don't think would be allowable is this:

John Doe, PE, SE

XXXXXX Firm

The "SE" designation after the name is commonly understood to mean the test and associated license, and I think invites inquiry.   

This only addresses my state specifically, but since there is no statute against it and the board of engineers have no problem with it, there'd be no reason to NOT use that SE designation beside your name if that IS your background and the service you provide.

As the prosecuting attorney at my board said, since there is no SE license here having the letters by your name is inherently meaningless besides announcing to others of your background.

 

[sayed]

Investigation revealed that Stanley M. Houston III violated section 6787(h) of the Business and Professions Code. The records of the Board show that Stanley M. Houston III is not licensed by the Board as a Professional Engineer. Investigation revealed that Houston used the initials "P.E.," An abbreviation of a restricted titled, on his business cards. Houston was ordered to cease and desist violating the law and to pay an administrative fine to the Board in the amount of $500.00.

i would really love to see if i find a case of a licensed PE who used the SE designation in a state that does not separately license them and got sued for it. I tried googling but couldn't find anything.

 

[kevo_55]

Not to really add to this conversation, all I can say is that it is not recommended to call yourself an SE unless you hold that title in a state that allows such a thing.

If you can, great. If you can't, that's ok too (You are an adult after all.)

Now remember the board rules and everyone play nice. 

 

[DoctorWho-PE]

I guess my interpretation is that when they say title, it is the words under your name, not the letters after it.   So it would be okay to say

John Doe, P.E.

Structural Engineer

but not

John Doe S.E.

unless you have passed the 16 hour structural engineering exam and are licensed to do so. 

I work in Illinios, and I am not even supposed to refer to myself as a Structural Engineer Intern (EVEN THOUGH THAT IS MY JOB TITLE!), as my FE was not the structural specific one offered in Illinois.

But hey, if you are comfortable with it and feel the risk is worth it, by all means go ahead and do it.  It is not my career and potential license that are on the line.  It is an offence that can result in the revocation of your license.

 

[sayed]

I guess my interpretation is that when they say title, it is the words under your name, not the letters after it.   So it would be okay to say

John Doe, P.E.

Structural Engineer

but not

John Doe S.E.

unless you have passed the 16 hour structural engineering exam and are licensed to do so. 

I work in Illinios, and I am not even supposed to refer to myself as a Structural Engineer Intern (EVEN THOUGH THAT IS MY JOB TITLE!), as my FE was not the structural specific one offered in Illinois.

But hey, if you are comfortable with it and feel the risk is worth it, by all means go ahead and do it.  It is not my career and potential license that are on the line.  It is an offence that can result in the revocation of your license.

No risk in my state.

No court cases (that the board is aware of) that has negatively impacted an engineer who does structural engineering but uses the initials SE without having taken the 16 hr test.

In the words of my state board, "it is just a test, it doesn't mean you are qualified just because you passed a test" (exact words from one person, two others made similar statements)

it was a little insulting when they told me this, but i suppose i kinda agree. 

 

[DoctorWho-PE]

In the words of my state board, "it is just a test, it doesn't mean you are qualified just because you passed a test" (exact words from one person, two others made similar statements)

it was a little insulting when they told me this, but i suppose i kinda agree. 

So they are okay with anyone just calling themselves a PE?  I mean, it is just a test!  Something seems fishy to me.  But again like I said, not my issue to worry about it!

 

[sayed]

So they are okay with anyone just calling themselves a PE?  I mean, it is just a test!  Something seems fishy to me.  But again like I said, not my issue to worry about it!

re-read my posts

 

[gogo]

re-read my posts

what state is this? 

Personally, I have not come across a situation of this sort. On the contrary, there are few states like Pennsylvania that have non-engineers looking at engineers application and raising "good" questions. 

It is strange to say the least. 

 

[sayed]

what state is this? 

Personally, I have not come across a situation of this sort. On the contrary, there are few states like Pennsylvania that have non-engineers looking at engineers application and raising "good" questions. 

It is strange to say the least. 

It's illegal in my state to call yourself an engineer or use PE, like virtually every state. The issue here is using a qualifier, like SE, in a state that does not separately license structural.

 

[OHBridgeGuy]

John Doe, P.E.

Structural Engineer

but not

John Doe S.E.

This is exactly my thought.  I have passed the SE exam but live in a state that does not license or regulate it, however I am still not going to put it on my card or email signature until my Nebraska acceptance or MLSE review come back in - just wouldn't feel right about using the post-nominal until I am official with a board or NCEES.  My thought process is that all SE's are structural engineers but not all structural engineers are SE's.  

No risk in my state.

No court cases (that the board is aware of) that has negatively impacted an engineer who does structural engineering but uses the initials SE without having taken the 16 hr test.

I guess you are ok then sayed, if I may ask, you seem to really want to use the post-nominal S.E.;  Why not just put your title of "Structural Engineer" under your name?  It seems like you have thoroughly vetted with your board, but if I were you it would concern me that the use of the post-nominal SE implies that you have passed the 16-hour exam and/or are licensed in one of the states that has a title or practice act, and that can stray into other ethics issues in terms of marketing qualifications.

At the end of the day, if your board allows then I guess you are ok; I just wouldn't feel comfortable myself.

 

[sayed]

I guess you are ok then sayed, if I may ask, you seem to really want to use the post-nominal S.E.;  Why not just put your title of "Structural Engineer" under your name?  It seems like you have thoroughly vetted with your board, but if I were you it would concern me that the use of the post-nominal SE implies that you have passed the 16-hour exam and/or are licensed in one of the states that has a title or practice act, and that can stray into other ethics issues in terms of marketing qualifications.

At the end of the day, if your board allows then I guess you are ok; I just wouldn't feel comfortable myself.

i don't care about it and i'm not going to. i'd have to put a whole bunch of qualifiers by my name if i'm gonna do that. i don't even put PE by my name anymore. I'm just curious about the people who make such a big deal about putting SE next to their name if there's no statute against using it in their state.

There is nothing unethical about using a qualifier next to your name if you are qualified to perform services in that field (such as using EE, ME, CE, MEP, etc., whether or not you've been tested on it and whether or not you've gone to school for it), unless of course there is a law against doing so.  

i gotta close off this tab cuz i feel like i've been trolling around for a response, lol. I'm at my comp studying and this pops up every time there's a response. (yes, i had to justify my quick response) I think this topic has been beat to death long ago.

 

[dvtn]

To those who dealt with the state of Nebraska, how long does it take for Nebraska to issue SE license by comity? I've got my NCEES record set up and am ready to transmit it to them. Just wondering how many weeks it will take for them to review and issue a license.

 

[gogo]

It's illegal in my state to call yourself an engineer or use PE, like virtually every state. The issue here is using a qualifier, like SE, in a state that does not separately license structural.

I don't know about that. 

For me it does not make any sense that there are 50 state boards doing exactly the same thing with a minor variation. There should be one national or international registry of engineers or professionals - with states that have supplementary requirements- just insisting on those - like CA, etc. 

At this point - all states have almost identical requirements of education (ABET), experience (4 + years) and examination (FE and PE). 

What is different? 

If we discuss what happens in the name of license - it is even more grey area - water resources guy is practicing electrical, electrical guy is doing structural, mechanical guy is doing electrical - I am not randomly saying this - but I have specific examples - I have seen reputed companies having director of engineering as people who do not even have a professional license - 

 

[OHBridgeGuy]

To those who dealt with the state of Nebraska, how long does it take for Nebraska to issue SE license by comity? I've got my NCEES record set up and am ready to transmit it to them. Just wondering how many weeks it will take for them to review and issue a license.

I sent my NCEES to them last week with the rules and regs test, will let you know when I hear back.  I sent in for NCEES MLSE review at the same time so will let you know on that too.  They said it usually takes about 2 weeks.

 

[smahurin]

I don't know about that. 

For me it does not make any sense that there are 50 state boards doing exactly the same thing with a minor variation. There should be one national or international registry of engineers or professionals - with states that have supplementary requirements- just insisting on those - like CA, etc. 

At this point - all states have almost identical requirements of education (ABET), experience (4 + years) and examination (FE and PE). 

What is different? 

If we discuss what happens in the name of license - it is even more grey area - water resources guy is practicing electrical, electrical guy is doing structural, mechanical guy is doing electrical - I am not randomly saying this - but I have specific examples - I have seen reputed companies having director of engineering as people who do not even have a professional license - 

Actually many states do NOT have identical requirements.  At least when it comes to the SE exam and designation.  Quick example:

Nevada requires: ABET, FE, 4yrs experience

Utah requires: ABET, FE, PE, 7yrs experience

That's just an easy example of two adjacent states with completely different requirements as Utah requires an additional 3yrs of experience + requires a PE as a prerequisite . Then you have other issues where a state like Alaska which requires an additional 3 credit Arctic Engineering course to receive any engineering license.  There are certainly some states that have similar requirements for some of the licenses.  But I think it's a mistake to think all the states are basically the same when it comes to licensing requirements.

Each state has their own idea.

 

[dvtn]

Actually many states do NOT have identical requirements.  At least when it comes to the SE exam and designation.  Quick example:

Nevada requires: ABET, FE, 4yrs experience

Utah requires: ABET, FE, PE, 7yrs experience

That's just an easy example of two adjacent states with completely different requirements as Utah requires an additional 3yrs of experience + requires a PE as a prerequisite . Then you have other issues where a state like Alaska which requires an additional 3 credit Arctic Engineering course to receive any engineering license.  There are certainly some states that have similar requirements for some of the licenses.  But I think it's a mistake to think all the states are basically the same when it comes to licensing requirements.

Each state has their own idea.

Looks like I might've wasted $110. I wasn't aware of 7 years of structural experience requirement in Utah (I actually have 7 years of experience but some of it is civil so I wonder if they will have a problem with that). I did see something about 7 years of experience on the application but I thought it was for those people who have their own companies and work unsupervised. Did you apply in Utah and did they ask you for 7 years of structural experience? I can't find exact statute talking about 7 years of strict structural experience. I applied in Utah based on this link below and it did not mention additional 3 years of experience on top of being PE like it does for Idaho for example.

http://www.engineering.com/Library/ArticlesPage/tabid/85/ArticleID/1808/Structural-Engineer-SE-Licensure-Explained.aspx.

 

[smahurin]

Utah requires 3yrs of experience after receiving your PE in order to get your SE. Utah's application is very unclear in this matter, but look at 58-22-302 (2)-e

Each applicant for licensure as a professional structural engineer shall:... have successfully completed three years of licensed professional engineering experience...

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title58/Chapter22/58-22-S302.html?v=C58-22-S302_1800010118000101

I was looking into getting a Utah SE last winter and hadn't thoroughly read their bylaws and was just looking at the application (which is very unspecific).  I ended up calling them for clarification and they informed me its 3yrs post PE and sent me to that reference.

 

[gogo]

Actually many states do NOT have identical requirements.  At least when it comes to the SE exam and designation.  Quick example:

Nevada requires: ABET, FE, 4yrs experience

Utah requires: ABET, FE, PE, 7yrs experience

That's just an easy example of two adjacent states with completely different requirements as Utah requires an additional 3yrs of experience + requires a PE as a prerequisite . Then you have other issues where a state like Alaska which requires an additional 3 credit Arctic Engineering course to receive any engineering license.  There are certainly some states that have similar requirements for some of the licenses.  But I think it's a mistake to think all the states are basically the same when it comes to licensing requirements.

Each state has their own idea.

Well - I guess you did not read my message correctly. I said 

"At this point - all states have almost identical requirements..."

Yes - some states "in their wisdom" need 3 more years after PE or some need 2. I guess per my perspective - these are very minor differences.

All these states need to come on the same level and requirement - whatever that may be.

If a state has gained this wisdom that 3 more years after PE is required - then they need to share that. Are Utah citizen's health and safety more important than rest of us, that they can't share this wisdom?