Welding....

[Road Guy]

Anyone know how to weld?

I was thinking of signing up for a class at a local tech school for a semester..

What I want to be able to do is be able to cut off and remount "stuff" to the frame of my jeep, and later other "stuff"

The used jeep I bought is overall in good shape but the rear mounts on both the frame (body mounts, rear control arms) on the axle are eventually going to have to be replaced.. It would probably be about a grand based on the previous work I just had done on the front arms.. I was thinking I could go ahead and clean and prep them and weld them as is to make them last longer..

Don't know if that is considered structural welding or not?

I don't know anyone who welds so I don't have an immediate option to learn from someone?

Anyone who knows how to weld know if one of those welding and meterullugy classes will teach me what I need to know?

 

[Ble_PE]

I believe Supe is the resident welding expert.

 

[Rockettt]

Research the classes. You probably will want a hands on type class. Those local tech classes are good because they are affordable and they are hands on. Have you ever welded before? I learned by diving in and just doing it. I did however in college learn more about the metallurgy with materials and joining with a class. But when it came down to it..... I learned mostly by just doing it. More I did it the better you get. Learn the machines and how to properly adjust em. Even with classes they give you the key points....but every welder has his/her own "style". Ive tried here (i ran the fab shop here at work for some time) to get many of these guys to abide by the WPDS's I have posted but It is near impossible to get everyone to weld within them parameters. (All mig welding shop btw).

I just welded in a rear torque box on one of our mustangs (1966). Trick is with some of these rides is the rust. If your in Georgia God bless ya! But what causes the body mounts to fault? Or just moving for travel and off roading? I do quarter panels often on just about any restoration I do if the car came from here (NY). Latest is a PA car and even though been sitting 19 years....still has the black undercoating on the bottom of it!

Welding is an awesome hobby, and personally I encourage everyone to learn. Will save you oodles of money and at the end of the day when someone says "who did that for you"...Its nice to say. "I did".

 

[Road Guy]

cool thanks!

Only welding I have done is when I worked for Home Depot I worked in Hardware and back in the day (when home depot was top notch) they would send all the hardware employees to these all day workshops so you could use the different tools we were selling.. I didnt spend that much time with the welders but I did do some aluminum welding, it was pretty cool, but that was the only time I have touched it...

I think at some point in time the jeep was up north, the car fax lists all the owners as being in Georgia, but it was manufactured in PA... I think all the little pieces of salt and water from offroading gets in the joints and its hard to get out..

I had a 94 Jeep before and it was from Florida and only had minimal rust, the kind you can spend a day with a grinder and make go away..

But I defin want something where you do mostly hands on, I dont need it to look pretty just to hold...

 

[Master slacker]

But I defin want something where you do mostly hands on, I dont need it to look pretty just to hold...

Go to any sleezy hotel bar on a Friday night and I'm sure you can find something.

 

[mudpuppy]

Welding runs in my family, my grandpa was a welder after WWII and my brother welds gas lines and steam pipes in power plants.

I didn't get that gene, I can barely keep an arc going.

 

[Supe]

I believe Supe is the resident welding expert.

I've dabbled a time or two.

The local shop classes are usually ok, though it can vary widely depending on the instructor. Often times, they're worth it just for the cost of the lab materials. They will likely start you out with SMAW, move you into GMAW, maybe dabble in some GTAW and oxy-fuel welding. At a minimum, it should cover the fundamentals of what you're needing to get started.

As for the mounts, if it's already rusting away, beefing up/rewelding them isn't going to help the cause (and will make welding particularly difficult, as welding over rust leads to porosity and hydrogen embrittlement of the weld). Body mounts are typically doable by the average DIY'er who has good access to the mount and the materials needed to fab it. Control arm mounts shouldn't be attempted without some experience, especially on the axle, as improper planning, support, oversized welds, or excessive heat input will distort the axle tubes, ultimately leading to premature bearing failure (in racing, we weld all the brackets/etc. on the housing first, then use an alignment jig to appropriately locate the housing ends for that reason).

While getting it replaced may be expensive, just remember, welding isn't that cheap. A bottom of the barrel 220v GMAW unit like a Hobart Handler will run you a minimum of $700 new. Add a 10lbs spool of wire, cylinder lease for some 75/25 Ar/CO2 mix, contact tips/consumables, and you get price creep in a hurry.

 

[Rockettt]

Supe is right..... You want to have a little background when doin suspension components and some experience with obtaining complete penetration with minimal heat. Most housings I would say are stout enough to take whatever you can throw at them. Maybe not newer stuff though...I dont have much experience.

I am tubbing a 72 valiant and moving the spring perches in and installing torque boxes into the subframe rails. Now i will have to move the perches on the new rear end in. Basically I cut them off and re-install few inches inward (whatever is needed). Ive never noticed any problems on the older stuff.

Rust you need to make sure is gone before laying a bead. Sometimes this is next to impossible and have to decide how important of a joint it will be. Most times it wont be "textbook" welding. We're engineers....so we "engineer" something.

I think the welder is a great investment and if you ask me, its a cheap hobby compared to many others and also can make some dough on the side! Problem is all my side jobs usually are friends needing something and of course...i dont charge. Same with powdercoating. Started that and so far havent made a nickel for the same reason! But you can find used welders if your concerned by the initial investment. 300-400 will buy you a used 220 lincoln/miller/bart. Remanufactured new about 500-550, and new off the shelf 700 is a good gauge.

 

[Wolverine]

Phffft! Why waste your time learning to weld just to do a little frame welding. Set your sights higher.

...or...

...or...

...or...

 

[pbrme]

I took metals class in highschool and learned enough to stick things together. Had a metallurgy class and a metals processing class in college, learned to braze, arc, MIG & TIG. The information you take away from a class should provide you with enough of a base to become familiar, but the hands on is where you learn technique. It's an art to know how to create any type of weld joint on any thickness of material, while minimizing distortion. For me, wire feed is definitely the easiest to learn on. You can tell a lot from how the weld sounds as you run a bead. Also try to rub shoulders with someone with experience who doesn't mind having a beer after work and show you some ropes. I work with one of the areas top welding engineers at work, and he's taught me a lot on paper.

 

[Road Guy]

In hate when yall take my bright ideas and ruin them with facts and experience

I do think the lower control arm mounts on the axle I would pay someone to do, but the upper mounts that are on the frame and body I would "think" I could learn how to do. One is about to crack but the others I can get some life out of by spending some time underneath the vehicle and grinding the rust off and applying some of that 3 step rust coat stuff they sell from 4 Wheel Drive Stores

 

[envirotex]

Mr. Tex specializes in iron works...he practiced a lot, but he also has very steady hands. I couldn't ever weld or be surgeon, too shaky.

 

[pbrme]

Mr. Tex specializes in iron works...he practiced a lot, but he also has very steady hands. I couldn't ever weld or be surgeon, too shaky.

Same here, I think it's because i have a slight case of downs... of sorts... downs a case, get's shaky.

 

[blybrook PE]

I took a "shop" class in high school that covered GMAW and oxy / acetylene processes. Never took a class on metallurgy. I highly recommend a hands on class from a technical college or local steel shop.

I do have a Stick welder, wire feed with MIG capability and a set of Oxy / Acetylene bottles in my workshop / connex. I tend to do all my own repairs around the house and depending on what I'm putting together, I'll use different methods. I switched from Oxy / Acetylene to Oxy / Propane for all my cutting purposes as it's cheaper to run. Currently, I'm not 100% set for MIG, so I'll have that done in the local shop.

I taught myself wire feed, but I'd been using stick for a number of years (the newer speed shields are nice). I remember one particular session where the shop instructor gave a few of us TIG rod and turned down the Arc welder to 60A DC. We were using the Stick to get an arc, pulling it back until the arc was about to "break", then laying in the TIG rod for thin sheet metal repair (shop stools mainly).

Practice a bit before hitting a major repair / joint. Preheating is key and another good reason to keep a blue wrench handy (torch). My wirefeed is a Lincoln from HD that has MIG capacity with an additional kit. It can handle upto 3/16" steel for wire feed only. I tend to use it to tack the joints until I get the arc setup and then I'll finish it with a 60xx or a 70xx rod.

 

[Supe]

I took a "shop" class in high school that covered GMAW and oxy / acetylene processes. Never took a class on metallurgy. I highly recommend a hands on class from a technical college or local steel shop.

I do have a Stick welder, wire feed with MIG capability and a set of Oxy / Acetylene bottles in my workshop / connex. I tend to do all my own repairs around the house and depending on what I'm putting together, I'll use different methods. I switched from Oxy / Acetylene to Oxy / Propane for all my cutting purposes as it's cheaper to run. Currently, I'm not 100% set for MIG, so I'll have that done in the local shop.

I taught myself wire feed, but I'd been using stick for a number of years (the newer speed shields are nice). I remember one particular session where the shop instructor gave a few of us TIG rod and turned down the Arc welder to 60A DC. We were using the Stick to get an arc, pulling it back until the arc was about to "break", then laying in the TIG rod for thin sheet metal repair (shop stools mainly).

Practice a bit before hitting a major repair / joint. Preheating is key and another good reason to keep a blue wrench handy (torch). My wirefeed is a Lincoln from HD that has MIG capacity with an additional kit. It can handle upto 3/16" steel for wire feed only. I tend to use it to tack the joints until I get the arc setup and then I'll finish it with a 60xx or a 70xx rod.

Seems odd to try that with TIG rod. Common(ish) practice for the shadetree mechanic though is to take a carbon arc rod ground to a point, and using that with Everdur (silicon bronze wire) for sheet metal repairs (aka brazing without a flame).

 

[blybrook PE]

Seems odd to try that with TIG rod. Common(ish) practice for the shadetree mechanic though is to take a carbon arc rod ground to a point, and using that with Everdur (silicon bronze wire) for sheet metal repairs (aka brazing without a flame).

The tig welder was down and it was a trick the teacher had learned from his instructor years back. It worked fine and I've done it a couple times since. Trick is to get the amperage low and keep things moving to prevent burning through the thin metal. I will have to try the Everdur method next time I've got something to braze.