U.S. Set For Wave of Power Plant Shuts Downs

[Capt Worley PE]

Over the next 18 months, the Environmental Protection Agency will finalize a flurry of new rules to curb pollution from coal-fired power plants. Mercury, smog, ozone, greenhouse gases, water intake, coal ash—it’s all getting regulated. And, not surprisingly, some lawmakers are grumbling.
Industry groups such the Edison Electric Institute, which represents investor-owned utilities, and the American Legislative Exchange Council have dubbed the coming rules “EPA’s Regulatory Train Wreck.” The regulations, they say, will cost utilities up to $129 billion and force them to retire one-fifth of coal capacity. Given that coal provides 45 percent of the country’s power, that means higher electric bills, more blackouts and fewer jobs. The doomsday scenario has alarmed Republicans in the House, who have been scrambling to block the measures. Environmental groups retort that the rules will bring sizeable public health benefits, and that industry groups have been exaggerating the costs of environmental regulations since they were first created.

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-k...kZ0PJ_blog.html

OK, power guys...is this alarmist propoganda, or something we need to prepare for?

 

[Master slacker]

I'll let the greenies reep what they sow while I enjoy lights staying on due to nuclear and natural gas power in my area.

 

[Flyer_PE]

In my little part of the world, the fossil stations we work with stopped spending money on improvements two years ago. They're planning to shut the stations down in the not-too-distant future. They're old stations and getting them into compliance with the new regulations just isn't worth it. There are five power plants in the Chicago area that we're pretty sure are going away within the next couple of years and they aren't building any new ones around here.

 

[Master slacker]

There are five power plants in the Chicago area that we're pretty sure are going away within the next couple of years and they aren't building any new ones around here.

To anyone on this board relying on those plants, I am truly sorry. Otherwise...

:rotflmao: :lmao:

:lmao: :rotflmao:

:rotflmao: :lmao:

 

[mizzoueng]

Based on what I have heard, its all mostly fluff. There are regulations coming, but they are already planning lawsuits

 

[Flyer_PE]

There are five power plants in the Chicago area that we're pretty sure are going away within the next couple of years and they aren't building any new ones around here.

To anyone on this board relying on those plants, I am truly sorry. Otherwise...

:rotflmao: :lmao:

:lmao: :rotflmao:

:rotflmao: :lmao:

^How well do you understand rate structures and how power is transmitted in this country? Odds are that that nice big nuke near you is a merchant plant. Even if you live right next door to nice shiny nuke, your rates are going to go up right along with everybody else.

 

[snickerd3]

we have plenty to spare in springfield...they just built a new coal power plant with natural gas capabilities here...not bringing in the revenue it was supposed to because they didn't sell as much. but we are south of 80 so Chicagoans don't know we exist.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^I know that one is down there. My primary concern up here is voltage control. They had to convert the Zion generator to synchronous capacitor duty here already and Waukegan station is one of the plants that is likely going away.

 

[Exception Collection]

^I know that one is down there. My primary concern up here is voltage control. They had to convert the Zion generator to synchronous capacitor duty here already and Waukegan station is one of the plants that is likely going away.

I'm not too worried; I think my city's primarily hydro/wind/solar powered (Pacific NW). Not really sure where the nearest coal plant is, actually.

 

[knight1fox3]

^I know that one is down there. My primary concern up here is voltage control. They had to convert the Zion generator to synchronous capacitor duty here already and Waukegan station is one of the plants that is likely going away.

My company is assisting Zion with their decon. processes. :true:

 

[Wolverine]

OK, power guys...is this alarmist propoganda, or something we need to prepare for?

It is absolutely true. The only pre-emptive action you can take is to go burn $100 bills each month to help prepare for where your power bill is going.

Based on what I have heard, its all mostly fluff. There are regulations coming, but they are already planning lawsuits

I disagree in the strongest terms.
With HAPS/MACTS rules and FERC1000 on the table, the power system is experiencing the first stages of being regulated out of business.

What I think is sadly funny is that we don't believe people when they tell us exactly who they are and what they're going to do; then we are surprised when they do exactly what they said they were going to do. President Obama said he was going to make coal so expensive through regulation that it would become unviable as a power source. Maybe that works out fine for Chicago, New York, and California, but damn foolery for the Southeast, and expensive foolery too.

Prepare for fubarization of the nations power system, followed by nationalization, when the gubm't steps in to fix what it intentionally broke.

 

[Wolverine]

I'm not too worried; I think my city's primarily hydro/wind/solar powered (Pacific NW). Not really sure where the nearest coal plant is, actually.

A little research reveals your nearest (and only) coal plant is Boardman, which is scheduled to be shut down to avoid the cost of installing $470 million of pollution regulation controls.
I looked up Oregon's generation profile:

Hydro - 60%

Natural gas - 22%

Wind - 14%

Coal - 4%

It's really cute that you have no worries about shutting down coal in Oregon since you are blessed with mild summers and abundant riverhead, wind, & natural gas resources, but here in the southeast with triple the population and more than double the MW load, we're a little concerned at having 67% of our generation capacity under threat of a $470 million tax times 10.

What's that quote about "...and I was not concerned, until they finally came for me"?

The knuckleheads in Washington have no idea what they're about to do... or maybe they do? :17:

 

[Exception Collection]

I'm not too worried; I think my city's primarily hydro/wind/solar powered (Pacific NW). Not really sure where the nearest coal plant is, actually.

A little research reveals your nearest (and only) coal plant is Boardman, which is scheduled to be shut down to avoid the cost of installing $470 million of pollution regulation controls.
I looked up Oregon's generation profile:

Hydro - 60%

Natural gas - 22%

Wind - 14%

Coal - 4%

It's really cute that you have no worries about shutting down coal in Oregon since you are blessed with mild summers and abundant riverhead, wind, & natural gas resources, but here in the southeast with triple the population and more than double the MW load, we're a little concerned at having 67% of our generation capacity under threat of a $470 million tax times 10.

What's that quote about "...and I was not concerned, until they finally came for me"?

The knuckleheads in Washington have no idea what they're about to do... or maybe they do? :17:

OK, fair enough. I was talking about my consumption in particular, not the general situation. In general, I think we need to build more nuke plants.

 

[CbusPaul]

In Ohio we are in big trouble with an aging coal fleet and strict rules that will shut down many of them prematurely. Cross State rule being finalized in July with an effective date of Jan '12 requiring significant cuts in SOx and NOx will help speed the demise over what HAPs MACT was going to do anyway. Think of what these plant closures will mean to the folks that live in the towns that they operate. Huge loss of good paying jobs and huge loss of a big taxpayer.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Huge loss of good paying jobs and huge loss of a big taxpayer.

Yeah, but Obama is going to replace those jobs with high-paying green energy jobs.

 

[Supe]

We've been building combined cycles out the wazoo, and we're also finishing up a 2x600, 2 combined cycles, a supercritical, and an ultrasupercritical as I type this. A lot of the utilities that knew this was coming a) invested money in scrubbers, b ) built new coal plants, and c) planned on the fleet of new coal and/or new nukes to offset the loss of the older plants. First utility I saw do all three rhymes with Puke Schmenergy. In that regard, I'm not particularly concerned about blackouts, etc.

That aside, the regulations are bullshit, the "science" behind it without merit, and the only way we'll get around it is with a regime change. Perhaps those coddling their welfare checks may see the light of day when their allotment of energy assistance dollars still leaves them with one whopper of an electric bill for the month.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

What I think is sadly funny is that we don't believe people when they tell us exactly who they are and what they're going to do; then we are surprised when they do exactly what they said they were going to do. President Obama said he was going to make coal so expensive through regulation that it would become unviable as a power source.

Control the power and you control the sheeple.

Prepare for fubarization of the nations power system, followed by nationalization, when the gubm't steps in to fix what it intentionally broke.

I suspect this is the ultimate goal.

As I said in another thread, the gov wants control of the grid and personally owned vehicles. Control of power and movement.

But, hey, American Idol is on!

 

[chaosiscash]

If any of you power guys that are having to shut down coal plants are interested, TVA has a reactor for sale.

For Sale

 

[Flyer_PE]

Selling Unit 2 is an interesting idea considering they aren't selling Unit 1 along with it. The logistics of having two separate owners on a two-unit site could be problematic. I've seen what happens when the owner and operator of the facilities are two separate entities and it isn't pretty.

 

[Wolverine]

That aside, the regulations are bullshit, the "science" behind it without merit, and the only way we'll get around it is with a regime change. Perhaps those coddling their welfare checks may see the light of day when their allotment of energy assistance dollars still leaves them with one whopper of an electric bill for the month.

:appl: :appl: :appl: