Teachers Strikes & Walkouts

[Road Guy]

So before I jump into the flames, but I believe this is just an American topic and not necessarily a political (R/D) topic & I want to point out that both my parents are retired teachers – I defin grew up sub/very low middle class

I get that teachers don’t feel they make enough money, they do important work, but just due to the sheer numbers, at best if they all got a 10%-20% increase nationwide they are still going to be in the same financial boat for the most part.  I don’t know what the total end game is?

Teachers, Fire, Cops, Military, etc, are all underpaid for what they do.  I am sure some states have really F’d up systems of how their benefits and retirements are handled. I don’t know if the 80% retirements still exist like my parents have. Even during the recession our county found a way to give some type of increase to teachers – while other county employees didn’t get them -

Our counties teachers are doing the walkout this Friday.  Are all government problems only solved by money? It would seem the money is there for most districts, just not allocated correctly? I pay nearly double in property taxes than what I paid in the atlanta burbs and the teachers here make less than the ones back home? Where is all the extra money going? We have maybe 4 cops? But a shit load of landscaping in roadway medians, sidewalks to nowhere, etc.. Our City just spent $4 million paving what used to be a great two track bike / running trail. Total waste of money in most people’s minds that I have talked to.

One thing that I believe causes it is the separation of school boards from local governments – I have never understood this, as a taxpayer I write one check to cover these costs, yet they are split into two separate political groups (a County Commission and a School Board) – I think a good start would be to have them all reside under one political subdivision and do away with the separate “checks”.

I don’t know what a teacher makes to the dollar, I know my old lady gets around $30/HR to work 12-14 hour days at the hospital and I have literally found her passed out in the shower from exhaustion at the end of the day & I never saw that happen to either of my parents during their teaching career.

Not knocking teachers, I think the money is there just not managed very well nationwide – Id be okay building a few less F-35’s if that would help.

 

[matt267 PE]

the money is there just not managed very well

I would say this is the case. 

Here is an example of how it happens: http://turnto10.com/i-team/nbc-10-i-team-rhode-island-911-fees-dont-fund-911-services 

 

[Szar]

This question is very state dependent.  In New Jersey where I can speak very well about this matter (however currently do not live there specifically for tax reasons), the money is mostly diverted into feel good programs that teachers or students do not directly see.  Teachers can also be paid very well in New Jersey though which doesn't help the tax issue.  Too much to type so I'm just going to bullet it.

• All residents of the state pay for inner city schools as part of a state funding decision years ago.  So its not uncommon for the ($ spent per Student) ratio of a inner city to be multiple times higher then even the best rated school districts.  New Jersey is a classic "throw money at it until it goes away" type of state.  Except there are social, family, and structural issues no one is ever willing to tackle so nothing changes. 
  
• Especially in inner city districts, money is thrown at ANYTHING that some salesman says will help.  Money is eaten alive by educational advisers and consultants like its no bodies business.  IPADs help students with education... lets buy 200 even though we have no idea what to do with them!?  So we hire another consultant to figure that out.  Almost none of the money makes it to the students in any useful manner.  And those districts outside of the city or of the normal middle class people?  Forget-abou'-it!
  
• What Teachers make is on the lower end but they still have decent health care and retirement plans.  If they they make it to ten years they are funded in the pension.  25 years gives healthcare for life.  This is a very costly program given the rising medical life costs.
  
• Teachers pay starts somewhat low, but for some reason public servants usually marry each other so two public servants after 5-10 years are guaranteed to be making 100K+ with medical and retirement coming there way.  This doesnt get as far as it sounds because our taxes are so damn high... but keep in mind we still have people making 8.25 hour here too.  100K is a nice mid range "middle income"  in New Jersey, but the rising costs destroy single parents, low income, elderly, etc.
  
• New Jersey has lots of districts with lots of superintendents and principals making well over six figures.  That eats a lot of budget with the redundancy and high costs.
  
• New Jersey's teacher union is a corrupt POS.  It is mainly involved in protecting itself and the worst of the union members.  I think unions are necessary, but NJ's needs to disbanded and reformed with teachers leading it.
  
• Our politicians do stupid, stupid things for votes.      
  

There's my rant on it.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

The teachers in Kentucky have been protesting in Frankfort on several Fridays this year, causing school districts to cancel across the state.  They are trying to fight changes to the pension system, which is somewhere between $40 and $70 Billion underfunded.  Our republican governor proposed an idea where teachers are given a privatized 401k-type retirement account funded to their level of service, and the pension system abolished.  This is what made the teachers union lose their collective shit.

HOWEVER, what actually passed the Kentucky legislature actually only affects teachers that have not yet been hired.  All current teachers and retirees will see no change in their pension benefits (yet), but they are protesting because the law would "make it harder to attract future teachers."  Really, I think half of they are still arguing against the original 401k plan without realizing that isn't what actually passed.  Also, there is the inconvenient fact that the plan that passed only reduces future pension benefits by about $500 million, so it only addresses a small fraction of the problem.

Pensions are a dying breed that should no longer be relied on for retirement...just like Social Security.  The private sector figured this out a long time ago, but the public sector is going to end up figuring it out the hard way by relying on it up until the point where there is literally no money left.

 

[willsee]

Well here in Kentucky our governor declared war on Public Education and we had multiple days of teachers having a "sick-out"

You have the state government giving tax credits to large corporations and ark encounters while crying there is no money for public education as they continue to slash the budget.  Then you also have charter schools trying to move in and take more money from the public school system.  

The state was able to change the pension structure for future retirees into a cash-hybrid system in lieu of defined benefits which teachers are upset about.  The pension has been an issue for the last 15 or so years when the state decided it needed money but didn't want to raise taxes so they didn't put in their share of the pension.

Kentucky is also an issue of Louisville vs the State.  Louisville is the largest city and provides the most money to the state in tax revenue, but the state views it as the illegitimate stepchild in that currently it is being discussed to have a state take over of the school system due to the county underperforming.  Louisville is different than the rest of the state in that the higher achievers will most likely go to private school - in many other counties that isn't an option - so the better students aren't there to raise the overall test scores of the schools.

 

[Road Guy]

Most City & County Governments have gone to the 403B system(like a 401K)  I don’t know why teachers should be any different – I was hired at the County one year after they did away with pensions for new employees – kind of glad because I might still be stuck there had I not had my own plan.

I think most all teachers with a pension also don’t have to pay into social security, so that’s some extra money right there?

My folks definitely didn’t get rich as teachers in a rural school system, but getting the pension for life has been a good thing for them, they both worked part time jobs after they retired and from my perspective are living fairly well in post teacher retirement.

 

[Supe]

Agree with all points above, but fall into the "you know what you hired into" category.  If you don't like the wages or how the teachers are treated, don't be a teacher.  Laws of supply and demand will catch up eventually.  My father was a Chinese History major who ended up a high school history teacher.  By the time the 70's rolled around, he decided it wasn't worth dealing with while trying to raise a family, and quit to work as a UPS driver, where he did so for 35 years.  He's now comfortably retired courtesy of a pension and union benefits.

I also understand that teachers do a lot after hours, and I respect the ones that do so quietly (like my sister, father, and grandmother who all are/were teachers), but I can't stomach the martyrs or the notion that a pay hike is warranted because of it.  Yes, some people outside the education field work a true 40 hours.  However, the higher you go in the pay scale, typically the more time you spend working later hours, being on call for e-mails and conference calls, etc.  I probably "donate" 10-15 hours a week average on that sort of shit, but I don't sit and make FB posts about it, nor do I get vacation time, religious holidays, or government holidays off.  Same for nurses, police, fire, etc., and I'm not sure why most of the bitching I see on social media seems to come across from the teaching crowd. 

I'd love to quit my job, move to PA, and become an adjunct professor like a lot of my fellow classmates do, but the pay sucks, so I continue the daily grind.  Every one of them has commented that they willingly accepted a drastic cut in pay for what has amounted to a significantly less stressful lifestyle, and not one of them whines about it.

 

[Master slacker]

Louisiana... EBR parish, specifically... is a joke.  Our solution - home school.  

 

[Supe]

Home school options when I was growing up was unheard of.  Around here, there's about one in every 10 people I talk to.

 

[csb]

I also understand that teachers do a lot after hours, and I respect the ones that do so quietly (like my sister, father, and grandmother who all are/were teachers), but I can't stomach the martyrs or the notion that a pay hike is warranted because of it.  Yes, some people outside the education field work a true 40 hours.  However, the higher you go in the pay scale, typically the more time you spend working later hours, being on call for e-mails and conference calls, etc.  I probably "donate" 10-15 hours a week average on that sort of shit, but I don't sit and make FB posts about it, nor do I get vacation time, religious holidays, or government holidays off.  Same for nurses, police, fire, etc., and I'm not sure why most of the bitching I see on social media seems to come across from the teaching crowd. 

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

 

[willsee]

Most of the teachers I saw protesting actually weren't asking for pay raises. 

Most were protesting their pensions (when the government was going to change them, not what they signed up for) and the slashing of school budgets WHILE giving money to charter schools.

Then our governor goes on TV and says:

"I guarantee you somewhere in Kentucky today, a child was sexually assaulted that was left at home because there was nobody there to watch them," Bevin said. "I guarantee you somewhere today, a child was physically harmed or ingested poison because they were left alone because a single parent didn’t have any money to take care of them."

 

[Road Guy]

I think since most of the US doesn't have a pension they wont get much sympathy on that route - probably more for salary

echo supes thoughts - we were having a discussion at a neighborhood event and some teachers were whinnying about the typical things - OMG I have to sit on the couch and watch the voice & grade stuff.. - my wife was a little buzzed and replied 'well I have worked 6 out of the last 10 Christmas days don't yall get like 2.5 weeks off at Christmas?' - I tried to start the slow clap...

 

[Dean Agnostic]

For me personally, nurses deserve 20% or more increase in salary across the Board in the US.  

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

Agree with all points above, but fall into the "you know what you hired into" category.  If you don't like the wages or how the teachers are treated, don't be a teacher.  Laws of supply and demand will catch up eventually.  My father was a Chinese History major who ended up a high school history teacher.  By the time the 70's rolled around, he decided it wasn't worth dealing with while trying to raise a family, and quit to work as a UPS driver, where he did so for 35 years.  He's now comfortably retired courtesy of a pension and union benefits.

I also understand that teachers do a lot after hours, and I respect the ones that do so quietly (like my sister, father, and grandmother who all are/were teachers), but I can't stomach the martyrs or the notion that a pay hike is warranted because of it.  Yes, some people outside the education field work a true 40 hours.  However, the higher you go in the pay scale, typically the more time you spend working later hours, being on call for e-mails and conference calls, etc.  I probably "donate" 10-15 hours a week average on that sort of shit, but I don't sit and make FB posts about it, nor do I get vacation time, religious holidays, or government holidays off.  Same for nurses, police, fire, etc., and I'm not sure why most of the bitching I see on social media seems to come across from the teaching crowd. 

I'd love to quit my job, move to PA, and become an adjunct professor like a lot of my fellow classmates do, but the pay sucks, so I continue the daily grind.  Every one of them has commented that they willingly accepted a drastic cut in pay for what has amounted to a significantly less stressful lifestyle, and not one of them whines about it.

Exactly this, couldn't agree more.  It's hard for me to sympathize with teachers because as someone else posted above, at least here in NYC, once you become vested the pension and health benefits more than compensate for the lower salary - but that is true for any State employee in NY.  One of my wife's friends is a teacher and used to post complaints daily on FB about working from home, having to log hours for certifications etc.  I would wager that most of us here in EB have worked from home and certainly have to log certification hours to maintain our license so why should teaching be any different.

 

[Dleg]

We are the perfect heirs of the Baby boomer generation. Anything for me, me, me. Give me tax cuts because there's no way I want to pay for some ungrateful teacher, cop, firefighter, whatever to get a pension. They knew what they were getting into, I don't get a pension, why should they?  It's survival of the fittest, baby.  My kids will be OK because I can afford private school.  If yours can't that's not my problem, it's yours because obviously you don't work hard enough, and you definitely shouldn't have chosen to be a teacher, because that job just doesn't pay well enough and there's no pension....

 

[Road Guy]

The teachers were all over downtown Denver today- honestly acting like a bunch of arrogant assholes - didn't really help there cause IMO. Plus the normal parking spots were all taken by them - so much red I thought it was a trump rally /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20">

 

[Szar]

We are the perfect heirs of the Baby boomer generation. Anything for me, me, me. Give me tax cuts because there's no way I want to pay for some ungrateful teacher, cop, firefighter, whatever to get a pension. They knew what they were getting into, I don't get a pension, why should they?  It's survival of the fittest, baby.  My kids will be OK because I can afford private school.  If yours can't that's not my problem, it's yours because obviously you don't work hard enough, and you definitely shouldn't have chosen to be a teacher, because that job just doesn't pay well enough and there's no pension....

And your position on a state like New Jersey where their something to the effect of 184 billion in unfunded pension and benefits liability and they struggle to balance a 37 billion dollar budget each year and still not manage to meet their legal obligations for funding the pension?

We just need to damn our personal finances and be done with it? 

 

[Road Guy]

In our school district it ranges from suburbs to 1000+ acre farms - news said the average teacher salary was $55K a year - while not great for 9 months of work that's not that bad.

By comparison my wife makes around $60k as a nurse. Where the docs make $300 to 600K. - hanging out with her coworkers I never hear them complain about money- they do complain about working 14 hours with no lunch though...

And they don't have a pension...

But glad my kids had the day off from
School - I left them a long to do list and they got it all done!

 

[Road Guy]

I also remember suggesting to my mom as a kid she could get a job in the summer and my face still stings from the slap I received!