Seperate Structural Eng. License isn't fair to PE

[monsterbbb]

One of the major argument that the SE has is that a PE with background other than civil is incompetent to design a structural, they push hard to make one more exam in order to stop other engineer compete with them.

Well, to be fair. IF that is the argument, It is only fair that SE can’t practice Electrical, Mechanical, Fire Protection as well and their experience and education shouldn’t qualify to take PE exam, just like a electrical, mechanical, fire protection PE’s education isn’t qualify to take the SE.

 

[snickerd3]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

 

[monsterbbb]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

 

[Exception Collection]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

I'm not sure how all states handle this, but Washington does not explicitly require a Civil license to take the Structural exam. What it does require is that an applicant must have at least two years of Structural experience. It just so happens that small-scale structural work (ie that which a non-SE licensed individual can do) tends to fall under the "Civil" engineering category as a general rule. But, there is generally nothing in any state preventing you from acquiring a Civil license - if you can pass the exam. And if you can't pass the Civil PE exam, you probably have no business even thinking about taking the SE at that time - most of the engineers I know consider the Civil PE is a cakewalk by comparison, to the point that one of my coworkers has had a Civil license since 1998, done almost exclusively small-scale structural work (including medium-size concrete structures literally a foot under the SE-required height and less than 100 s.f. under the area requirement), and still doesn't consider himself ready.

Generally, any state allows you to "jump" from one license to the others, once you have proven yourself competent and ethical in one area. I'm planning on getting my SE, EE, ME and Geotechnical licenses that way - I have my civil, so (except for Structural) all I need to do is pass the other exams.

Keep in mind SE is (well, in OR/WA at least) only required for a certain height (45'?) and area of structure, or for important structures (schools/emergency services), or when the building dept wants to request one due to a specific situation. And even then, some jurisdictions allow exceptions via building official approval.

 

[kevo_55]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

So, if you're an EE why do you care about SE's?

:huh:

 

[snickerd3]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

So, if you're an EE why do you care about SE's?

:huh:

I was wondering that too.

 

[monsterbbb]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

So, if you're an EE why do you care about SE's?

:huh:

I was wondering that too.

For example, if I decide to open my own company to do consultant work, with my PE, I can only stamp, E, M, P and Fire. While Civil can stamp E, M, P, F. Plus if Civil pass the SE, Civil can stamp A as well, which make it a complete consultant package. While I can't offer that.

It is only fair to make Civil PE and SE only stamp A

EE PE only stamp E,

ME PE only stamp M.

Fire PE only stamp F.

However, with SE licnese, it effiectivly disallow EE, ME , Fire to offer complete consultant package. That is where the unfairness come in.

 

[kevo_55]

You just lost me dude.

You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

 

[monsterbbb]

You just lost me dude.
You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

No dude, you are wrong. only couple states require stamp in their own discipline. For example, in illinois. PE can stamp E,M, P, F.

Let's say, I am EE PE, if I want to start doing fire protection eng. with current policy, I can buy some books to study and go to visit couple work site for case study. Then I can start working on some small scale fire protection system.

However, with SE license in the way, I have to back to SCHOOL and spend thousand of dollar to just meet their education requirement, and I have to go find a work that is relate to strutural. (this basically disallow me to engage any structural business because to finish that, it will take me another 3-6 years)

Why Civil don't need to go back for eduation requirment for thieir work do in EE, ME, and Fire protection????? but I have to??

 

[snickerd3]

In IL you are allowed to practice within your area of knowledge (except the SE), but even then I'd think it would be a rare occurance or far stretch to find a single person with enough education and experience be EE, ME, fire protection, and civil under the single PE.

 

[monsterbbb]

In IL you are allowed to practice within your area of knowledge (except the SE), but even then I'd think it would be a rare occurance or far stretch to find a single person with enough education and experience be EE, ME, fire protection, and civil under the single PE.

That depend on the project size, what if my project target is small scale commerical, such as restaurant, nail shop? It isn't diffcult at all for those work. Any personal with good education background and some self study can be good at it.

 

[snickerd3]

You just lost me dude.
You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

No dude, you are wrong. only couple states require stamp in their own discipline. For example, in illinois. PE can stamp E,M, P, F.

Let's say, I am EE PE, if I want to start doing fire protection eng. with current policy, I can buy some books to study and go to visit couple work site for case study. Then I can start working on some small scale fire protection system.

However, with SE license in the way, I have to back to SCHOOL and spend thousand of dollar to just meet their education requirement, and I have to go find a work that is relate to strutural. (this basically disallow me to engage any structural business because to finish that, it will take me another 3-6 years)

Why Civil don't need to go back for eduation requirment for thieir work do in EE, ME, and Fire protection????? but I have to??

I think you would have a hard time selling that to the board if an investigation was ever done. It would be more intensive than just that.

 

[monsterbbb]

You just lost me dude.
You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

No dude, you are wrong. only couple states require stamp in their own discipline. For example, in illinois. PE can stamp E,M, P, F.

Let's say, I am EE PE, if I want to start doing fire protection eng. with current policy, I can buy some books to study and go to visit couple work site for case study. Then I can start working on some small scale fire protection system.

However, with SE license in the way, I have to back to SCHOOL and spend thousand of dollar to just meet their education requirement, and I have to go find a work that is relate to strutural. (this basically disallow me to engage any structural business because to finish that, it will take me another 3-6 years)

Why Civil don't need to go back for eduation requirment for thieir work do in EE, ME, and Fire protection????? but I have to??

I think you would have a hard time selling that to the board if an investigation was ever done. It would be more intensive than just that.

The fact is many small consultant company only have 1 PE, I have many plans that are stamp by only one PE.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

You just lost me dude.
You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

No dude, you are wrong. only couple states require stamp in their own discipline. For example, in illinois. PE can stamp E,M, P, F.

Let's say, I am EE PE, if I want to start doing fire protection eng. with current policy, I can buy some books to study and go to visit couple work site for case study. Then I can start working on some small scale fire protection system.

However, with SE license in the way, I have to back to SCHOOL and spend thousand of dollar to just meet their education requirement, and I have to go find a work that is relate to strutural. (this basically disallow me to engage any structural business because to finish that, it will take me another 3-6 years)

Why Civil don't need to go back for eduation requirment for thieir work do in EE, ME, and Fire protection????? but I have to??

I think you would have a hard time selling that to the board if an investigation was ever done. It would be more intensive than just that.

The fact is many small consultant company only have 1 PE, I have many plans that are stamp by only one PE.

Go back and read what she said.

 

[monsterbbb]

You just lost me dude.
You can only seal items defined within your discipline to start with.

No dude, you are wrong. only couple states require stamp in their own discipline. For example, in illinois. PE can stamp E,M, P, F.

Let's say, I am EE PE, if I want to start doing fire protection eng. with current policy, I can buy some books to study and go to visit couple work site for case study. Then I can start working on some small scale fire protection system.

However, with SE license in the way, I have to back to SCHOOL and spend thousand of dollar to just meet their education requirement, and I have to go find a work that is relate to strutural. (this basically disallow me to engage any structural business because to finish that, it will take me another 3-6 years)

Why Civil don't need to go back for eduation requirment for thieir work do in EE, ME, and Fire protection????? but I have to??

I think you would have a hard time selling that to the board if an investigation was ever done. It would be more intensive than just that.

The fact is many small consultant company only have 1 PE, I have many plans that are stamp by only one PE.

Go back and read what she said.

They need to address why EE, ME, FE have to go back to school, why Civil doesn't need to? Let's forget about what drawings we can stamp. The fact that Civil have possiablity to get both licenses while EE, ME, FE can't, is extremely unfair to other engineer

 

[kevo_55]

 

[snickerd3]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't want the bridges, buildings, or any other structure in my state designed by someone with a EE, ME, FE that has not been through an education focused to designing said things. Civils have had that coursework which is why they can take the test without further study.

Good luck.

 

[monsterbbb]

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from. In IL for example, has the separate test to practice structural engineering in IL which is totally separate process from the PE. So unless you have to experience to back them both up, they aren't interchangeble. for other states that might be different

i am from Illinois, that is where the unfairness come in. People who pratice SE almost 100% can apply to take PE. However, on the other hand, for example, I have a degree in electrical. My education background totally stop me to take SE exam.

So, it is only fair if people have background in Civil go to take SE, while other take PE.

With only Civil can take both SE and PE is extremely dislute the value of my PE licnese.

I'm not sure how all states handle this, but Washington does not explicitly require a Civil license to take the Structural exam. What it does require is that an applicant must have at least two years of Structural experience. It just so happens that small-scale structural work (ie that which a non-SE licensed individual can do) tends to fall under the "Civil" engineering category as a general rule. But, there is generally nothing in any state preventing you from acquiring a Civil license - if you can pass the exam. And if you can't pass the Civil PE exam, you probably have no business even thinking about taking the SE at that time - most of the engineers I know consider the Civil PE is a cakewalk by comparison, to the point that one of my coworkers has had a Civil license since 1998, done almost exclusively small-scale structural work (including medium-size concrete structures literally a foot under the SE-required height and less than 100 s.f. under the area requirement), and still doesn't consider himself ready.

Generally, any state allows you to "jump" from one license to the others, once you have proven yourself competent and ethical in one area. I'm planning on getting my SE, EE, ME and Geotechnical licenses that way - I have my civil, so (except for Structural) all I need to do is pass the other exams.

Keep in mind SE is (well, in OR/WA at least) only required for a certain height (45'?) and area of structure, or for important structures (schools/emergency services), or when the building dept wants to request one due to a specific situation. And even then, some jurisdictions allow exceptions via building official approval.

Washington's policy is making more sense than Illinois then.

 

[monsterbbb]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't want the bridges, buildings, or any other structure in my state designed by someone with a EE, ME, FE that has not been through an education focused to designing said things. Civils have had that coursework which is why they can take the test without further study.
Good luck.

Same thing can be say that I don't want my the building I live in have Civil PE to design my Fire protection system and electrical system.

 

[Exception Collection]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't want the bridges, buildings, or any other structure in my state designed by someone with a EE, ME, FE that has not been through an education focused to designing said things. Civils have had that coursework which is why they can take the test without further study.
Good luck.

Same thing can be say that I don't want my the building I live in have Civil PE to design my Fire protection system and electrical system.

I don't know of any state that allows one to practice without knowledge of the subject you are practicing in. In OR, for example, a Civil *could* stamp those drawings... but they'd better have a very good explanation of how they got their expertise. Generally, the safe way is to take the exam.

It doesn't make any sense to me that you'd have to go back to school. Can you not just get a Civil license, then do small-scale structural work for a while? There's a reason most states limit the SE so much, it's because it's the #1 most dangerous license to fail at.