I've just been offered a position for a very big construction company. As a recent grad with a civil engineering degree, I'm beyond excited and I am definitely interested in this entry-level position. The salary they offered is within the range of what I was expecting, but according to websites like glassdoor.com, the average salary for this position is around $1,000-2,000 more than what I have been offered, and there are usually sign on bonuses that was not mentioned to me. Should I try to negotiate for more money? How do I go about asking for a sign on b\onus? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch!
Recent grad, first job, negotiate salary?
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$1000-2000 isnt enough to really worry about. After taxes, my Comcast bill is higher than that. I say take it.
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picusld
Well-known member
Take it
I don't know anyone right out of college who has ever received a sign on bonus. An experienced position, maybe, but not a fresh grad.
I took $5000 less to go with one company over another straight out of school. End result, was that after 2 years with that company, my gross pay more than doubled. $1k or $2k isn't a big deal at all in the grand scheme of things.
I took $5000 less to go with one company over another straight out of school. End result, was that after 2 years with that company, my gross pay more than doubled. $1k or $2k isn't a big deal at all in the grand scheme of things.
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
I know a lot of people that got signing bonuses right out of college. They were in the class that graduated the year before I did, and they were taking advantage of the growing Tech Bubble. A lot of them were laid off before I graduated, but they made a huge salary for a few months. In today's economy, if you can get close to the median salary..and you actually have a job offer right out of school...take it!
FusionWhite
Epee ~)----- Fencer
In this economy and this being your first out of school job, just take it. In 5-10 years when your jumping ship to another firm you will have a lot more leverage to negotiate a signing bonus and/or salary.
This is true for civil.
I've been in the civil / surveying binness for 15-16 years, working for government and many private firms.
I worked with one engineer who got a signing bonus. It was about 1998, the economy was humming along and the engineer was both licensed and a woman. The firm was doing their best to hire women / minorities and wanted her badly.
jmbeck
Well-known member
I know that all the salary sites tell you "always try to negotiate, everything is always negotiable". Well, that's not always true.
Ask yourself this, are you prepared to lose the opportunity if they say no and pull the offer? Do you have other offers/prospects? Do you have co-op/intern/anything that distinguishes you from the candidate pool? If the answers to these questions are no, you may want to reconsider the negotation.
In my first job out of college, I had the "everything is negotiable" idea (thanks Salary.com!). Granted, I was going to take it no matter what, but I thought I would try. The HR person that called me said "Well, that's the offer, and I've got a pad full of other people to call if you're not interested." He was right, it was a tough time economically, and I truly was lucky to have an offer period. It was my only offer, and I wasn't prepared to say no. Luckily, that's as far as it went in this large company. Had he decided to take it back to the hiring manager, would that have changed his opinion of this fresh out of school kid that is wanting more than what everyone else was being offered, and accepting?
I first hand watched a former manager pull an offer after a "negotiation" attempt. Granted, he wasn't exactly a reasonable person, but he was bothered that a new grad asked for more cash. Hopefully, this is an extreme and rare case, but it happens.
However, if you decide to go along with it, don't lie (well, I've got an offer X from ABC Company when you don't), cite the reports you have about the average salary being higher than your offer, and be prepared to walk away. Signing bonuses are a little easier if you take the right approach. Most likely, you won't get your first paycheck for at least two weeks, possibly a month after you start. You can justify a sign-on bonus as needing the cash for deposits/rent/etc. This is assuming you're not getting a lump sum payment for moving expenses.
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Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Take it.
D
Dexman PE
Despite the fact the economy is improving, we're still quite a ways away from where we were 10th years ago. When I graduated in 03, it was not uncommon to have 2-3 offers ready to go. Not so much now, take the offer. When/if you get to a position for a raise, negotiate then.
Pick your battles, and this is not one to fight.
Pick your battles, and this is not one to fight.
WoodSlinger
Well-known member
I have to agree with everyone else here. You have no leverage, and you should just be satisfied with being able to find employment with the way things are.
Also, I don't think you really want to start your service with a company on this kind of note. Even if they bumped your salary, or gave you the signing bonus, they are always going to look at you as over paid, or greedy, or a combination of the two. Your future raises, bonuses, etc. would more than likely be effected due to this, and be lower than what you would have gotten otherwise. After a few years, the $2,000 extra you got at the beginning will be nothing compared to the 10 K you lost out on through the smaller pay increases.
I worked with a guy that had come to our office from his first employer. When he was offered the job, he had the mindset of, "I already have a job, if you want me to come and work for you, you need to make it worth it for me". They negotiated a higher salary, and he came to work with us. After our yearly reviews, they all took place at the same time, we would have discussions about how the increases were in terms of percentage. He got increases in the 2-3% range where the rest of us were getting 5-10% increases. I don't know what he was making, but I'm sure it wasn't much more than about 5K more than the rest of us with similar experience. At the end of the day, he got what he wanted in the beginning, but has paid for it ever sense. I'm sure by now he has been surpassed by those that he was making more than when he started. Be careful what you wish for.
Also, I don't think you really want to start your service with a company on this kind of note. Even if they bumped your salary, or gave you the signing bonus, they are always going to look at you as over paid, or greedy, or a combination of the two. Your future raises, bonuses, etc. would more than likely be effected due to this, and be lower than what you would have gotten otherwise. After a few years, the $2,000 extra you got at the beginning will be nothing compared to the 10 K you lost out on through the smaller pay increases.
I worked with a guy that had come to our office from his first employer. When he was offered the job, he had the mindset of, "I already have a job, if you want me to come and work for you, you need to make it worth it for me". They negotiated a higher salary, and he came to work with us. After our yearly reviews, they all took place at the same time, we would have discussions about how the increases were in terms of percentage. He got increases in the 2-3% range where the rest of us were getting 5-10% increases. I don't know what he was making, but I'm sure it wasn't much more than about 5K more than the rest of us with similar experience. At the end of the day, he got what he wanted in the beginning, but has paid for it ever sense. I'm sure by now he has been surpassed by those that he was making more than when he started. Be careful what you wish for.
udpolo15
Well-known member
I don't necessarily agree with most of the comments; there are a lot of details to consider. I do agree that you are taking a risk; however:
1) What other opportunities do you have? Have you been searching for months and months without anything?
2) What other options does the company have? Have they been looking for a while? Are they bring in a group of new hire and have someone next on the list they can call? Are they under a time constraint?
3) How good of "catch" are you? Relevant internship, strong high school/college work experience? 4.0 student (not that I think it matters too much, but with entry level it is one metric that is out there)
Remember - the company liked you and picked you. Whether they interviewed just you or 100 people - they thought you were the best fit and decided to make you an offer. If you approach it in the right way - I don't think the risk is huge that you will offend them and have the offer rescinded.
Also - talk with your college career counselors - they may have guidance or advice pertinent to the actual company as well as advice on how to approach the negotiations.
1) What other opportunities do you have? Have you been searching for months and months without anything?
2) What other options does the company have? Have they been looking for a while? Are they bring in a group of new hire and have someone next on the list they can call? Are they under a time constraint?
3) How good of "catch" are you? Relevant internship, strong high school/college work experience? 4.0 student (not that I think it matters too much, but with entry level it is one metric that is out there)
Remember - the company liked you and picked you. Whether they interviewed just you or 100 people - they thought you were the best fit and decided to make you an offer. If you approach it in the right way - I don't think the risk is huge that you will offend them and have the offer rescinded.
Also - talk with your college career counselors - they may have guidance or advice pertinent to the actual company as well as advice on how to approach the negotiations.
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Hi,
Looks like you received a lot of good advice to take the job, so you should take it. In your own words the offer was within the range of what you expected.
If the job offers the oportunity to work under professional engineers doing the kind of engineering you set out ot do, it is a no brainer. It is in your best interest to get your engineering experiece and knowledge, then pass the PE and then you can have a better chance to name your price.
In my case getting my PE over 10 years after I graduated, cost me a lot of opportunities.
That said, you can always ask about advancement opportunities as you accept the job. Usually signing bonus have strings attached. More than likely you will have more than one engineering job, there is something different to learn even in a bad job.
Good luck with your career.
Rob in TN
Active member
I received a signing bonus when I graduated. That was is 2006, and times are different now.
Take it now, with no hesitation, or be prepared for no job at all.
Regardless of the economy - good or bad - being employed is MUCH better than not.
You may negotiate if:
you have a better offer
you are willing to walk away
That's about it. Otherwise, take it. My employer pays 5-15% below what the market pays, but we have good benefits, including 10% to my retirement account.
Jobs are not easy to come by. Good benefits can make up a $2,000 difference in a couple of months.
So, take it, take it now, or someone else will.
Regardless of the economy - good or bad - being employed is MUCH better than not.
You may negotiate if:
you have a better offer
you are willing to walk away
That's about it. Otherwise, take it. My employer pays 5-15% below what the market pays, but we have good benefits, including 10% to my retirement account.
Jobs are not easy to come by. Good benefits can make up a $2,000 difference in a couple of months.
So, take it, take it now, or someone else will.
Isent that kind of the whole point of having experience?
I dont know about others but I work to live not live to work so I want to work as little as possible and do the things I want to do which requires a high hourly rate, if I wanted to work at entry level wages my whole life I would not study for PE exams or other such things. Other posters are right getting your foot in the door with your first job is a nightmare so you should take this job and build experience, get your PE and maybe pick up a masters, then after 5-10 years let the negotiations begin, after all thats really the whole idea isent it, you dont go to the most brutal college programs there are study for some of the hardest tests and build experience to not make the most money you can possibly get. If you are going for your PE make sure that there will be a PE for you to work under at your job, that was my main critera when I was looking for my first job rather than pay, a PE, 5-10 years experience and a masters if you feel up to it will get you in the 6 figures if you play your cards right.
Once you are in a position to start negotiating it becomes very political, you want to interview and not let your current employer know as well as try to avoid letting the company you are interviewing with know what you make, you never want to make anyone feel like you are holding them hostage, if the new company offers you a fatty smokin offer then jump ship if not then you respectfully decline and no one is the wiser. I would not jump ship for anything less than a 30% raise otherwise its not worth the risk, a 10% raise is not worth some bored HR person monitoring you checking your yahoo email or checking your ameritrade account or supervisors who grind you about your time card, there are alot of non money related quality of life issues when going to a new company so you have to be carefull and ask the right questions, like how flexable are they with your schedule, can you come and go as you need to as long as you get your 40 in, how much do you have to travel away from family etc.
Thank you for all the helpful advice and wisdom from everyone, I really appreciate it. I have to admit, the idea of negotiating really just came from every career book I've read and a bit of it came from my college career officer. They tell you that you ALWAYS negotiate when presented with an offer because they say companies usually expects you to negotiate, and the offer is usually lower than the average salary for the position to make room for negotiation. However, given everything everyone's said here, as well as the economy, and the fact that I know I want to work for this company and stay awhile, I decided not to negotiate and just accepted the offer. I'm really happy about my decision and will be starting in January. Once again, thank you, it was very interesting to hear everyone's point of view.
