Oct 2013 PE - Passing Percentages

[knight1fox3]

If you don't pass Electrical the first time, you're screwed. The repeat this time was only 28%, the lowest of any exam. And the first time was 63%, which is almost the lowest.

I would imagine so with an attitude like that.

 

[envirotex]

[SIZE=12pt]The repeat takers who had a bad day the first time[/SIZE]

I've shared this story before but, this was me the first time...about 30 minutes into the afternoon exam the guy sitting directly in front of me fell out of his chair and started having a seizure. I yelled "call 911", moved his chair so he wouldn't hurt himself, and waited for the paramedics. They didn't stop the exam. Most people around me didn't even look up. I didn't do so well on the afternoon portion of the exam...

 

[NJmike PE]

Wow. Well at least you had a Damn good excuse. They should have at least refunded you.

 

[johnnyusma08]

Maybe the guy having the seizure was faking it because he was on the verge of failing.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

PSU09Vet, yes, 12B.

 

[bhook20]

I'd be interested in knowing if the passing percentages have seen a downward trend over the years. Like maybe back 20 years ago, it was typical to see 80% pass on first try, now we're looking at 64%... and if that is the case (not saying it is, I don't know), but if it is the case, would it be any indication of a decline in college curriculum adequately preparing engineers or perhaps a decline in how much actual experience one obtains on the job.

I don't know, but I would be interested in seeing some analysis on that... if NCEES does any of that.

Looking over the past 20 years would add too a lot of variables, most notably the format of the test (used to be several hand written problems).

I know that, for example, IQ tests have gotten progressively more difficult over the years leading to the conclusion that people are in fact getting smarter... despite what older generations say about us, and what we say about those pesky kinds with their tweeters and their myspace and their aol chat rooms!

In my opinion, it's because we rely so heavily on computers and programs. At least in highway, we rarely do hand calcs for much of anything. Over the past three years, I've done drainage design for a couple jobs; by hand in spreadsheets at first, then the last 9 months in a drainage program. It's so much more valuable IMO to do at least say part of the design by hand to get a grasp of the calculations used. Take drainage, if you go by hand you're forced to measure the area and figure out the infiltration by hand, then use equations to calculate inlet capacity, bypass and gutter spread. Using the computer program, all you do is drop in the inlets and connect with pipes, pick surface types for infiltration rates, click the analysis and poof you get output without the equations. Or even for geometry, I always check things done in InRoads by hand to make sure they measure up. I don't know but IMHO, technology is a tool we need to be successful, but it's replacing our exposure to the basic calculations and mathematical concepts. And I'm not some old fuddy-dudd (no offense to any and all old fuddy-dudds), I'm 31 and am very active in social media. But I think there's a down side to making everything as easy as plugging two or three data points in and your whole analysis is done for you.

If any of that rambling rant was even written coherently enough to be understood.

BTW, Sapper, were you a 12B? (or w/e the new MOS is)

Glad to see people using Inroads. most folks say they never heard of Inroads......they all use Geopak. I'm not in consulting anymore so I don't use anything now but a red pen when I write my comments lol.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

I use Inroads at my current job but geopak at my last one and when I was with VDOT. I much prefer Geopak. And I also run at least a couple calculations by hand, just to make sure I didn't screw up something.

 

[kchinger]

If you don't pass Electrical the first time, you're screwed. The repeat this time was only 28%, the lowest of any exam. And the first time was 63%, which is almost the lowest.

I would imagine so with an attitude like that.

Well, considering I passed first time, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Just a comment that it has the lowest repeat of any exam.

 

[PSU09Vet]

I'd be interested in knowing if the passing percentages have seen a downward trend over the years. Like maybe back 20 years ago, it was typical to see 80% pass on first try, now we're looking at 64%... and if that is the case (not saying it is, I don't know), but if it is the case, would it be any indication of a decline in college curriculum adequately preparing engineers or perhaps a decline in how much actual experience one obtains on the job.

I don't know, but I would be interested in seeing some analysis on that... if NCEES does any of that.

Looking over the past 20 years would add too a lot of variables, most notably the format of the test (used to be several hand written problems).

I know that, for example, IQ tests have gotten progressively more difficult over the years leading to the conclusion that people are in fact getting smarter... despite what older generations say about us, and what we say about those pesky kinds with their tweeters and their myspace and their aol chat rooms!

In my opinion, it's because we rely so heavily on computers and programs. At least in highway, we rarely do hand calcs for much of anything. Over the past three years, I've done drainage design for a couple jobs; by hand in spreadsheets at first, then the last 9 months in a drainage program. It's so much more valuable IMO to do at least say part of the design by hand to get a grasp of the calculations used. Take drainage, if you go by hand you're forced to measure the area and figure out the infiltration by hand, then use equations to calculate inlet capacity, bypass and gutter spread. Using the computer program, all you do is drop in the inlets and connect with pipes, pick surface types for infiltration rates, click the analysis and poof you get output without the equations. Or even for geometry, I always check things done in InRoads by hand to make sure they measure up. I don't know but IMHO, technology is a tool we need to be successful, but it's replacing our exposure to the basic calculations and mathematical concepts. And I'm not some old fuddy-dudd (no offense to any and all old fuddy-dudds), I'm 31 and am very active in social media. But I think there's a down side to making everything as easy as plugging two or three data points in and your whole analysis is done for you.

If any of that rambling rant was even written coherently enough to be understood.

BTW, Sapper, were you a 12B? (or w/e the new MOS is)

Glad to see people using Inroads. most folks say they never heard of Inroads......they all use Geopak. I'm not in consulting anymore so I don't use anything now but a red pen when I write my comments lol.

Most people in the highway industry in my area seem to use it, based on what I'm told from co-workers who have been at numerous other firms over the years. It's a powerful tool, without a doubt, but my first 2 years my PE supervisor was invaluable. He only allowed me to do calculations for just about anything by hand so that I understood the concepts and equations, showed my work and provided copies of my referenced values rather than using programs to plug-and-chug. I'm sure many of us had experiences similar or the same, but over the years you lose some of that basic background when you only use programs. I work with someone who has extensive knowledge and understanding of IR-Drainage but can't always remember the tables in FHWA or state publications for what values to use and when, because they're tied to settings you select from a drop down menu in the program.

 

[knight1fox3]

If you don't pass Electrical the first time, you're screwed. The repeat this time was only 28%, the lowest of any exam. And the first time was 63%, which is almost the lowest.

I would imagine so with an attitude like that.

Well, considering I passed first time, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Just a comment that it has the lowest repeat of any exam.

My comment was in response to your mention of being "screwed" if you don't pass the 1st time. If everyone thought like that, there would be no repeat exam takers. The key to passing the exam on the 2nd attempt (IMO) is to change up your study habits and analyze your diagnostic report to see what areas you may need more work in than others. That combination generally leads to a successful 2nd attempt (regardless of statistics). But to just flat out say, "I didn't pass the first time, I'm screwed" doesn't bode well for getting yourself in the right mindset to start studying. Again, this is my opinion. And congrats on your passing results.

 

[NJmike PE]

^ what he said (+1)

 

[Rohitv]

The percentage for repeat takers for most disciplines is quite low. Any thoughts???

One way to check, would be to find out highest failing score for repeat test takers. If the repeat test takers scoring ~55/80, and still not passing, maybe there is something there. But I highly doubt it. Any word on the highest losing score on the Civil Construction Oct 2013 exam(repeat or first timer)??

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

The percentage for repeat takers for most disciplines is quite low. Any thoughts???

One way to check, would be to find out highest failing score for repeat test takers. If the repeat test takers scoring ~55/80, and still not passing, maybe there is something there. But I highly doubt it. Any word on the highest losing score on the Civil Construction Oct 2013 exam(repeat or first timer)??

Sorry to rain on your conspiracy theory, but here's what is posted on the ncees website:

All exams are scored the same way. First-time takers and repeat takers are graded to the same standard.

The explanation up in post 13 makes the most mathematical sense.

 

[NJmike PE]

^ it should. it was straight from a NCEES Rep.

 

[Epickbeardman]

The percentage for repeat takers for most disciplines is quite low. Any thoughts???

I'd say it means you don't learn any tricks from taking it the first time. It's tough... and if you can grasp the concepts, you can pass on the first shot. If you couldn't get it... taking it more times doesn't necessarily mean you'll get "the hang of it".

Definitely how I felt afterward. I thought to myself "If I had to take this again, I'm not sure I gained any insight after the first time." Thank GOD I don't have to!