OCT 08 PE - Environmental group

[junior316]

hi - I'm still waiting on results for the April '08 Enviro...
if I'm unlucky (a distinct possibility given the unexpected emphasis of some of the exam - note: I discovered this site AFTER the exam and immediately realized how useful it would have been, so for those of you here, you're already one-up), I just wanted to give a shout-out that I'll be joining in this discussion for Oct '08...

On a side note: can anyone offer any comments as to why they chose the Env over the Civil (w/Env,Water Res PM)? I struggled with this decision, especially as someone who has moved to different states quite a bit, and not all states offer the exam (but most will at least recognize through comity, if I recall correctly). Sorry if this is a misplaced comment for this post, just trying to validate my decision to re-sit for the Env (if necessary) instead of giving the Civil a shot.

The environmental PE exam is something many civil engineers wouldn't dare take because it involves more process related subjects and most civil engineers simply aren't environmental engineers. They are more broad based. In larger firms civil engineers may focus on water or wastewater. Passing the environmental PE exam is extremely useful for those jobs. Also, how many water resources and enviro civil engineers do structural and/or geotechnical projects? Probably very few. That was old school. Not today.

My decision to take the enviro exam was primarily because I did not want to study structural, transportation, geotechnical, construction, etc and would enjoy learning about the other enviro topics I don't practice (air, remediation, health & safety, etc.). Also, the enviro exam allows for superior performance in a subject to offset poor performance in other subjects. Finally, in my state there is no differentiation between a discipline -- it's a Professional Engineer license period. And I'm certain a civil PE passing grade does not mean you can do everything an environmental engineer does nor even all the subjects the civil exam covers (most general civil engineers don't go beyond land development and package treatment plant designs).

It also depends on your line of work -- the enviro exam passing grade will surely give someone the upper hand in water and wastewater projects as opposed to the civil exam. That's my take.

 

[klk]

Structural scares me (there, I said it)

Don't worry, you're not the only one - I feel the same way!

 

[Dleg]

My degree was in ME (1990) and I had been working enviro and enviro-related jobs (well logging, for example) for al my career. I felt the best chance for me to pass the PE exam was to take it in the field that I work in, and just learn the stuff that I was still unfamiliar with (remediation, air). There was no way I was about to go and try to learn the hard-core Civil stuff like structures, geotech, and transportation. Those would do me no good at work, unless I change jobs... But learning air and remediation topics has already served me very well, as I have since been assigned air pollution control work and have also helped out on some remediation/ site investigation projects.

I love my envirmental PE and I get really upset that some states (CA and HI, for example) don't recognize it. The PE field is still too dominated by a good-old-boy mentality that tries to exclude competition. The poster above was very correct to suggest that no civil would be able to just step in ad actually design a treatment plant, yet around here they do that (and worse) all the time, and their stuff usually ends up being 50% designed by me, in the process of reviewing their work and returning it with major deficiencies. "Well Mr. Dleg, what would you do here? What kind of design value would you use here?" etc.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Gulp...I just registered for the October exam. I am now committed. Time to really buckle down and make the third time the charm!

 

[klk]

Good Luck FLBuff! If you have any questions on water or wastewater, let me know.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Good Luck FLBuff! If you have any questions on water or wastewater, let me know.

Thanks. I'm thinking about posting my Oct. '07 diagnostics to get an analysis from the gurus (for example, Dleg, JR) to help focus my studying. I've got the NC State review DVDs, and plan on starting to go through those once the TDF is over.

 

[Dleg]

Good luck! This is a good time to get started - this is about when I started for the Oct '06 exam. Go ahead and post your diagnostics, or PM them, and I can sure try to see where you might want to focus. But other than that, I would just recommend what I did - tell yourself you never want to do this again, and eat, drink, and breathe enviro engineering practice problems for the next 3 months.

Just real briefly, my 3 month schedule and method was as follows:

First 2 months: (Late July through End of September)

- Air emissions (2 weeks) (its the easiest, I think, so it's a good confidence builder - maybe only takes 1 week)

- Water and wastewater (2 weeks) (perhaps the hardest - took me almost 4 weeks)

- Solid Waste and haz waste (2 weeks)

- Sound/radiation/safety/ etc. (2 weeks)

Study method: (1) Read the associated chapters in the ENVRM and follow along sample problems in text. (2) When you've finished a chapter, sit down and do all the problems in the "Practice Problems" book that goes with the ENVRM. (3) Repeat, until you've gone through all chapters associated with the subject in the ENVRM. (4) Perform ALL practice problems associated with the subject in both NCEES practice exam, and (if you have it) "101 Solved problems". This may send you off on more reading, because this is where you will run into the limitations of the ENVRM. For air, you can do it all with the ENVRM. Same with water/wastewater. The last two topics will send you hunting for more resources, which maybe you already have. (5) You're done with this subject. Move on to next one, and repeat the cycle.

* Keep schedule flexible, but stick to the 2 month plan. Spend more time on subjects you are having difficulty with, and less on what you did well with. As I said, I spent nearly a month on water and wastewater, and only a week on air and the safety topics. A little extra on the haz waste stuff, too.

Final month: - practice exam problems

- One full, timed practice exam 2 weeks before real test

- final two weeks: reading time on subjects you are least familiar with, occasional (but fewer) practice problems

- Day before exam: do NCEES practice exam again (will only take 3-4 hours, because you will remember how to do all the problems by now, since you did them in the months before. This is basically just a warm-up for the next day)

Anyhow, that's my suggestion for a schedule, and start on it right away! You have the advantage because you've already been through this once. You may already know what you need to emphasize this time.

Dleg

 

[FLBuff PE]

Good luck! This is a good time to get started - this is about when I started for the Oct '06 exam. Go ahead and post your diagnostics, or PM them, and I can sure try to see where you might want to focus. But other than that, I would just recommend what I did - tell yourself you never want to do this again, and eat, drink, and breathe enviro engineering practice problems for the next 3 months.
Just real briefly, my 3 month schedule and method was as follows:

First 2 months: (Late July through End of September)

- Air emissions (2 weeks) (its the easiest, I think, so it's a good confidence builder - maybe only takes 1 week)

- Water and wastewater (2 weeks) (perhaps the hardest - took me almost 4 weeks)

- Solid Waste and haz waste (2 weeks)

- Sound/radiation/safety/ etc. (2 weeks)

Study method: (1) Read the associated chapters in the ENVRM and follow along sample problems in text. (2) When you've finished a chapter, sit down and do all the problems in the "Practice Problems" book that goes with the ENVRM. (3) Repeat, until you've gone through all chapters associated with the subject in the ENVRM. (4) Perform ALL practice problems associated with the subject in both NCEES practice exam, and (if you have it) "101 Solved problems". This may send you off on more reading, because this is where you will run into the limitations of the ENVRM. For air, you can do it all with the ENVRM. Same with water/wastewater. The last two topics will send you hunting for more resources, which maybe you already have. (5) You're done with this subject. Move on to next one, and repeat the cycle.

* Keep schedule flexible, but stick to the 2 month plan. Spend more time on subjects you are having difficulty with, and less on what you did well with. As I said, I spent nearly a month on water and wastewater, and only a week on air and the safety topics. A little extra on the haz waste stuff, too.

Final month: - practice exam problems

- One full, timed practice exam 2 weeks before real test

- final two weeks: reading time on subjects you are least familiar with, occasional (but fewer) practice problems

- Day before exam: do NCEES practice exam again (will only take 3-4 hours, because you will remember how to do all the problems by now, since you did them in the months before. This is basically just a warm-up for the next day)

Anyhow, that's my suggestion for a schedule, and start on it right away! You have the advantage because you've already been through this once. You may already know what you need to emphasize this time.

Dleg

Correction...I've been through it twice! I took this approach my first time, and got the jitters in the exam. I couldn't remember anything! Last October, I got super-busy at home, and wanted to cancel taking it, but was outside the cancellation period. So, I took the month before the exam and studied the best I could. I went in with a 'Let's see what happens, the worst is that I fail and take it again' attitude, and felt like I did much better. I keep forgetting to pull my diagnostic letters out of the file. I'll try to remember tonight, and post both of them.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Dleg...you mention that the air should be able to be done out of the ENVRM, but that is my weak point (air). Can you recommend a reference that I could get that would help beef me up on that?

 

[Dleg]

The only other reference I got for the exam was "Air Pollution Control" by Cooper, Alley. It covers the clean air act and basics of air pollution pretty well in the first few chapters, and probably also covers the Gaussian distribution model more thoroughly than ENVRM. So, I think it's good reading material, at least, to help understand the basics, if you felt that ENVRM was weak on them. However, I got it maybe with only 3 weeks left to go, and so I didn't use it much except for extra reading. I am pretty sure I did not reference it during the exam.

But seriously, as short as it is, the air sections (nevermind thermo and psychrometery and such) of the ENVRM, coupled with the practice problems in the "the other board" problems book and the Schneiter's 101 Solved Problems, were all that I needed to get it down good enough for the exam.

Oh - I just remembered - probably the hardest thing (for me) in the practice problems was conversion problems from actual stack conditions, to get back to standard conditions for comparison with emissions limits, etc. (dry standard cubic feet, etc.) I think this was also covered pretty well in Air Pollution Control, but I also seem to recall LaGrega's Hazardous Waste Management helping out with that, too (excellent tables of chemical properties and conversions in that one) I ended up just practicing some extra problems later on (last two weeks), and not dwelling on it at first.

AND (remembering again) I was able to get some good reading out of the Air section in Salvato's Environmental Engineering, which is expensive, but has been a wealth of information for me in my day-to-day work. It also has a lot of info on air sampling, which the other texts don't cover (equipment and methods).

 

[FLBuff PE]

The only other reference I got for the exam was "Air Pollution Control" by Cooper, Alley. It covers the clean air act and basics of air pollution pretty well in the first few chapters, and probably also covers the Gaussian distribution model more thoroughly than ENVRM. So, I think it's good reading material, at least, to help understand the basics, if you felt that ENVRM was weak on them. However, I got it maybe with only 3 weeks left to go, and so I didn't use it much except for extra reading. I am pretty sure I did not reference it during the exam.
But seriously, as short as it is, the air sections (nevermind thermo and psychrometery and such) of the ENVRM, coupled with the practice problems in the "the other board" problems book and the Schneiter's 101 Solved Problems, were all that I needed to get it down good enough for the exam.

Oh - I just remembered - probably the hardest thing (for me) in the practice problems was conversion problems from actual stack conditions, to get back to standard conditions for comparison with emissions limits, etc. (dry standard cubic feet, etc.) I think this was also covered pretty well in Air Pollution Control, but I also seem to recall LaGrega's Hazardous Waste Management helping out with that, too (excellent tables of chemical properties and conversions in that one) I ended up just practicing some extra problems later on (last two weeks), and not dwelling on it at first.

AND (remembering again) I was able to get some good reading out of the Air section in Salvato's Environmental Engineering, which is expensive, but has been a wealth of information for me in my day-to-day work. It also has a lot of info on air sampling, which the other texts don't cover (equipment and methods).

Thanks...I may just try the ENVRM and practice problems, combined with the class and notes from the NC State DVD series I got.

 

[klk]

If you can find an air pollution book to take with you into the exam, I would recommend it. Mainly in the sense that the exam might ask an obscure question that has to be looked up. I had one of those on my exam, I wouldn't have had a chance to answer it had I not had my air pollution book with me. I didn't really use it during my review for studying (ENVRM was pretty good), but more for a resource if you encounter weird questions. One question on the exam I took referenced an equation by name (ie - using the ____ equation . . . , the _____ would be _____) Of course, the equation wasn't in ENVRM. Unless I had known the equation, I would have had to give it a WAG. But for general air pollution stuff, ENVRM wasn't too bad.

I thought the major deficiency of ENVRM was Haz and solidwaste . . .

 

[Dleg]

^agreed. ENVRM is next to useless on those topics.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Well, here are the diagnostic results with % correct per section for my first 2 attempts at the exam. Just looking at it, I see that I need to tighten up my knowledge on all subjects, but air seems to be my weak point. Any comments/help would be greatly appreciated. I am going to see if I can find a decent air polution book. Thanks for the encouragement/suggestions so far.

Topic April '07 October '07

Wastewater 36 45

Storm Water 50 57

Potable Water 36 60

Water Resources 50 83

Ambient Air 13 38

Emissions Sources 50 25

Control Strategies 25 38

Municipal Solid Waste (MSW), Commercial and Ind. Wastes 40 56

Haz. Waste, Special and Radioactive Waste 70 45

Environmental Assessments 56 50

Remediation 63 75

Public Health and Safety 78 70

 

[Dleg]

Yeah, working hard on Air would help. But looking at that (not sure I understand the numbers though), I'd also recommend spending some quality time drilling the water subjects into your head.

practice problems, practice problems, practice problems.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Anyone have to do a Hardy-Cross pipe network problem on the exam? I don't recall one, but I may have just not had one in my two previous attempts. It seems to me that it would be difficult to test on the PE exam, as your first try is a stab in the dark, then you get closer to closing the network via trial and error, and the fact that it can take a looooonnnnnggggg time to perform just one iteration. I'm wondering if I should take the time to actually practice the method, or just go over the theory. Thanks!

 

[junior316]

Anyone have to do a Hardy-Cross pipe network problem on the exam? I don't recall one, but I may have just not had one in my two previous attempts. It seems to me that it would be difficult to test on the PE exam, as your first try is a stab in the dark, then you get closer to closing the network via trial and error, and the fact that it can take a looooonnnnnggggg time to perform just one iteration. I'm wondering if I should take the time to actually practice the method, or just go over the theory. Thanks!

I studied the hardy-cross method for the April 2008 enviro exam and it was not helpful. However, if you look at the NCEES practice enviro problems they do have one; but you are given enough info to not make the problem take an absurd amount of time.

I hear some people recommend Air Pollution Control -- I never used it once (well, at least successfully). It is not very practical. There is way too much verbage and theory. However, I would recommend a book that covers air quality measurement and control practices (apparently Dleg found that stuff in Salvato's Environmental Engineering). There were several questions on those items which I couldn't find the answer to in Air Pollution Control. However, in the NCEES practice enviro problems they do use tables in there for at least one problem. I think that if you are not practicing air pollution and treatment the ENVRM is more than adequate to get a decent chunk of problems right. I found they pretty much stick to ENVRM for the meat and potatoes but go into more specific and practical subjects that one either knows from a very practical textbook or through specific engineering experience.

My experience of the Apr. 2008 exam was that there were not a whole lot of wastewater problems as I had anticipated (if you take the ENVRM practice exams the professor guy asks a lot of wastewater questions involving many types of treatment processes). There were a lot more water questions on the Apr. 2008 exam than I had anticipated and they really required engineering experience to answer (check out EPA's maximum contaminant listing for water supplies; understand chlorination disinfection for those who don't practice water). Also, many pump questions are fairly straightforward and easy. Study that section of ENVRM and do the practice problems. Understand the difference between hydraulic power and power required from the motor.

Also, if you get a solid waste question a big thing to know is to divide the amount of garbage (in weight; or perhaps I should say mass) by the packed density in the landfill. This gives you the volume (but watch the units!). Simple; yet if you've never done waste management problems it might appear very difficult.

Another thing to study up on is the ENVRM risk assessment sections -- go through the example problems. Also, get the hydrogeology equations down (radius of influence, drawdown, etc.). They are not too challenging but you must understand them to get "easy pickings."

 

[GTjoy]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the boards and am taking the Oct 08 Environmental PE exam. I'm getting a bit nervous since I am just starting to study this week (EEK!). I'm finally getting my Lindeburg ENVRM book in the mail this weekend along with the Schneiter books. I would have started earlier but I had to focus on passing the LEED exam too (just passed that this week, one less thing to worry about!).

I suppose that was a good warm-up, to get me used to reading thick textbooks again. But certainly, the level of difficulty pales in comparison.

I've been scouring this message board (and others) for tips and such, but if anyone has any tips for someone like me who only has 11-12 weeks to study and who doesn't have much in the way of textbooks, please let me know! I realize the Lindeburg books don't cover all the areas so any tips for the best additional references would be much appreciated too.

I'm also getting the NCEES practice questions and am thinking of a few others. And do you guys think getting the NC dvds would be worth it?

Lastly, does anyone have tips on what I should particularly focus on, given my compressed study schedule? This week (while I'm waiting for the manuals to arrive), I'm focusing on stormwater. I figure that is fairly easy to tackle at first, not too much chemistry involved!

Anyway, good luck to everyone and thanks for helping me realize I'm not alone!

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

I'm focusing on stormwater. I figure that is fairly easy to tackle at first, not too much chemistry involved!

There wasn't much on stormwater on my exam. Just a few questions. Stormwater falls under the wastewater section of the exam. Most of the WW questions were hardcore treatment problems.

 

[GTjoy]

There wasn't much on stormwater on my exam. Just a few questions. Stormwater falls under the wastewater section of the exam. Most of the WW questions were hardcore treatment problems.

Thanks so much for the tip! I am tackling fluids and hydraulics problems now... Wastewater treatment, incidentally, is probably my weakest area so I'm trying to work my way up to doing those problems. My co-worker loaned me his Metcalf and Eddy book, already tabbed, so that's one good thing!

Any other tips for the kinds of questions the exam will focus on?