I've been asked to stamp drawings I have no business stamping.

[Troubled]

I was asked to stamp a set of drawings today for a state that I'm the only one registered in.

The person that performed the work is senior to me. I have never performed the type work that is involved. I can't replicate or even competently check, review, or make design decisions regarding this work.

Nevertheless, because the state hasn't issued the originators comity license yet (probably three weeks out), I've been asked to stamp the drawings to meet the project deadline.

Obviously, I can't ethically do this.

There contention is that I can review the drawings and work performed. Even at that, this will still be the first time I've been involved with this type of work.

I know I can't be terminated due for this reason due to the legal ramifications, but this certainly won't make a desirable work environment.

Has anyone else ever been faced with this issue? How did you respond? What was the outcome?

Thanks,

Troubled

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Don't do it. Period.

I know it may generate an undesirable work environment for you, but you are honestly stuck between that and losing your license. Every time you sign and seal something, you are putting your engineering career on the line. If your company is putting this decision on you now, you will probably face other ethical dilemmas with them in the future.

 

[engineergurl]

agreed, you don't want to join the occupy this generation...

 

[pbrme]

I was asked to stamp a set of drawings today for ... work... I can't replicate or even competently check, review, or make design decisions regarding this work.

You're license requires you to be competent (confident) in the work being submitted. nuf said. You should be able to give him some legals or paragraphs for reference and don't forget to add "as much as I'd like to...It's out of my hands" or along this line. I'm sure you can learn the ways of this senior, but don't stamp anything you can't understand and comply with.

 

[MA_PE]

What is the magnitude of the specific drawings you've been asked to stamp? If it's a considerable size project and you are assuming design responsibility for it but do not have the background/experience to assume that reponsibility, then I can't see the company asking you to do that as their E&O insurance will likely be invalidated should there be an issue. On the other hand if it's a simple project (like a single home septic system for example), then I would think your senior guy would be able to sufficiently explain / demonstrate the calculations so that you could help out and keep the project moving. Don't underestimate yourself but certianly don't stick your neck out too far.

 

[Road Guy]

Well said ma PE

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I would tell 'em to wait the three weeks for the other guy to get comity.

 

[knight1fox3]

I would tell 'em to wait the three weeks for the other guy to get comity.

I'm sure we can all appreciate that deadlines are deadlines to the end customer. Telling them to "just wait" might not be practical nor does it demonstrate good performance of the respective company to it's customer. And some times there are also penalty clauses (or liquidated damages) associated with missing certain deadlines/milestones. Which I assume is the case since they are pushing this individual to just stamp the drawings/calculations to get them out on time. Otherwise they would probably be able to "just wait".

Also agree with MA_PE in terms of what the nature of this entails.

 

[Wolverine]

Also, make sure to document very clearly what you were asked to do, when, where, why, how, and what your objection to it is if there is ANY possibility this could come back and bite you in the arse later internally or externally. Also be sure NOT to take responsibility for refusing to stamp - see previous posts about how this would "be against company policy, put the company in legal jeopardy, invalidate insurance", yada, yada - it's out of your hands. Take the strong ethical stand, but you are doing your employer a favor by refusing. Good luck.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I would tell 'em to wait the three weeks for the other guy to get comity.

I'm sure we can all appreciate that deadlines are deadlines to the end customer. Telling them to "just wait" might not be practical nor does it demonstrate good performance of the respective company to it's customer.

I would submit they've already showed poor planning by taking a job without having an engineer registered in the state (which is also illegal in many states, demonstrating disregard for the law), and now they are adding questionable ethics to the mix.

 

[snickerd3]

^this! I would have clicked the like button but it still isn't working.

 

[Exception Collection]

Take the strong ethical stand, but you are doing your employer a favor by refusing. Good luck.

Absolutely do this. DO NOT stamp anything you are not comfortable stamping. If it's something that is extraordinarily complex and completely outside of your experience and knowledge, do not stamp it at all. If it's EE and you're a Civil, or ME and EE, or any other variation - don't. If it's just a more complex application or application you aren't used to, within your field - make an effort to understand it, making sure that you clarify that you may disagree with the original engineer and may not stamp it.

 

[Exception Collection]

I would submit they've already showed poor planning by taking a job without having an engineer registered in the state (which is also illegal in many states, demonstrating disregard for the law), and now they are adding questionable ethics to the mix.

Absolutely agreed with this, though it's possible they expected to have the license-by-comity go through faster, or (not knowing how large the company is) had the original engineer that was to work on the project leave right as it started. We had that happen to us just a few months ago; fortunately, he wasn't the only person licensed in that State.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I would tell 'em to wait the three weeks for the other guy to get comity.

I'm sure we can all appreciate that deadlines are deadlines to the end customer. Telling them to "just wait" might not be practical nor does it demonstrate good performance of the respective company to it's customer.

I would submit they've already showed poor planning by taking a job without having an engineer registered in the state (which is also illegal in many states, demonstrating disregard for the law), and now they are adding questionable ethics to the mix.

Actually, they do have a registered engineer in that state (the OP).

 

[Exception Collection]

Actually, they do have a registered engineer in that state (the OP).

Substitute "Qualified Registered Engineer" for "Registered Engineer". Though - if it's like the blind spots I have, it may have caught them off guard. I'm licensed as Civil, but there's no way I'd stamp some of the more complex non-structural work - I work on *structures*, and that's it. I can count the number of times I've done roads or stormwater on one hand - simultaneously.

 

[snickerd3]

thats just being nit picking, the OP clearly said it wasn't in his area of knowledge so it is the same situation, they don't have a valid stamp for that state for that project.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Yeah, the OP didn't do the work and doesn't have the experience to do it.

This doesn't sound like a company I'd want to do business with, no offense to the OP.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I was just countering the illegal comment, but I do agree that I would not stamp drawings I am not familiar/comfortable/knowledgeable with.

 

[Exception Collection]

I was just countering the illegal comment, but I do agree that I would not stamp drawings I am not familiar/comfortable/knowledgeable with.

Indeed. The question is, can Troubled asked to stamp them become familiar/comfortable/knowledgeable about the project, the design, and the area of knowledge? If absolutely not, then Troubled needs to turn it down flat. If it's possible, though, than Troubled should state "I'm making an effort to try to understand this; it will lead to additional hours you may not have accounted for originally, and if I'm still not comfortable than you'll have to wait." - I've done that before with materials and codes I'm not used to working with. Had to have time to perform research.

 

[knight1fox3]

I would tell 'em to wait the three weeks for the other guy to get comity.

I'm sure we can all appreciate that deadlines are deadlines to the end customer. Telling them to "just wait" might not be practical nor does it demonstrate good performance of the respective company to it's customer. And some times there are also penalty clauses (or liquidated damages) associated with missing certain deadlines/milestones. Which I assume is the case since they are pushing this individual to just stamp the drawings/calculations to get them out on time. Otherwise they would probably be able to "just wait".

Also agree with MA_PE in terms of what the nature of this entails.

So? What's practical has no bearing on whether or not an action is ethical or legal.

I wasn't insinuating the individual should just stamp the documentation instead of just waiting and move on. What I was saying is some times you can't miss a deadline or it will end up costing the bottom line of the project. They need to come up with an alternative solution or modify applicable project schedules.