Do you tithe 10%

[goodal]

Knightfox:

God doesn't need my money. I tithe because of what it does for me. God blesses a giving spirit. I have found that giving does something for me deep down. I am not saying that I am better than the next person that doesn't give anything, but there is a strange thing that happens when you realize everything you have is Gods and he is just letting you use it. My tithe is a way of showing my appreciation for the blessings in my life. If you saw my post about our work situation, you know right now we are in a bit of a money crunch. We are still giving the same percentage to church. Some may think this dumb, but as with so much about personal finance, its not about the math. Its about the attitude and spirit. I gave when money was good, and God blessed. I will give when it is not so good and I expect God will bless that spirit. We will see.

Capt:

What do you mean "one or the other"?

 

[Exception Collection]

I tithe - or, when money is tight for whatever reason I record for later tithing* - 10%, though like csb my Church's policy is "give us a portion, give other charities a portion**".

Tithing is not a tip, to be given if the service is good. Tithing is not optional, to be given when the mood strikes me (unless I'm in critical need of the money; I'm not a saint). Tithing should not be given to obtain a monetary blessing; if you want to invest money, invest it at a financial organization. Tithing is critical to fulfilling God's Mission on Earth, and (imo) should be treated as such. Of course, that doesn't mean I'll tithe towards organizations that spend their money in ways I disapprove of; I refuse to tithe to a Catholic or Baptist church, though I might support an individual charity they run. Likewise, I refuse to tithe to a UCC (United Church of Christ, the denomination I belong to) church that uses church funds in ways I don't approve of (specifically, pro-choice work).

Also, I've always been taught that tithing should come off the gross, not the net.

As for the "tax exempt" issue, I feel that religious organizations should be required to prove that they should be tax-exempt. Yes, I realize that would generate headaches for a lot of perfectly legitimate churches. But there are far too many groups that take advantage of their status as religious organizations to line the pockets of the people running them; Operation Blessing being one that comes to mind. I also think that any church that involves itself in politics directly should have their status revoked (though able to get it back in a year or so), with the second such revocation being permanent.

*I try to catch up every few months even in a crisis, otherwise the amounts become to large to just donate and I'll never catch up.

**Donated goods don't count.

Knightfox:

God doesn't need my money. I tithe because of what it does for me. God blesses a giving spirit. I have found that giving does something for me deep down. I am not saying that I am better than the next person that doesn't give anything, but there is a strange thing that happens when you realize everything you have is Gods and he is just letting you use it. My tithe is a way of showing my appreciation for the blessings in my life. If you saw my post about our work situation, you know right now we are in a bit of a money crunch. We are still giving the same percentage to church. Some may think this dumb, but as with so much about personal finance, its not about the math. Its about the attitude and spirit. I gave when money was good, and God blessed. I will give when it is not so good and I expect God will bless that spirit. We will see.

Capt:

What do you mean "one or the other"?

I suspect he means that if you are doing what the Bible says, there's no room for interpretation.

That might be something for a different thread, though.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Capt:

What do you mean "one or the other"?

You can either do what the Bible says, or you can do what you interpret it to say. You cannot do both.

 

[MA_PE]

EC based on your post I don't think you "tithe" at all

tithe (t

)

n.
1.
a. A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
b. The institution or obligation of paying tithes.



you simply donate to charities of your choice and target an amount of 10% of your gross income. This is very gernous of you but it's not a "tithe". Tithing in my interpretation is a regular payment to the church that one is a member of and not just a collection of charitable donations that may or may not be equal to 10%.

 

[goodal]

Ah, I see. Yes, there is room for interpretation. That's why I said I don't argue about the net or gross. I am doing what I believe is the intent of the scripture. A lot of times the Bible is perfectly clear (thou shalt not kill, commit adultery, covet your neighbors Camaro, etc) . So I try to do what it says (I'm no saint either), but there are definitely places that are open to interpretation. Tithing is one of those. Not about whether to do it or not, but the way you calculate it.

 

[Exception Collection]

EC based on your post I don't think you "tithe" at all

tithe (t

)

n.
1.
a. A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
b. The institution or obligation of paying tithes.




you simply donate to charities of your choice and target an amount of 10% of your gross income. This is very gernous of you but it's not a "tithe". Tithing in my interpretation is a regular payment to the church that one is a member of and not just a collection of charitable donations that may or may not be equal to 10%.

The entirety of my tithe (10%) goes to either my church or charities that (in my opinion) do the Lord's work (aiding homeless, sick, ministering, etc). My other charitable giving (when I can) is in addition to the 10%, and tends to go to random irreligious charities or political causes that may or may not aid in the Lord's work directly.

This is in accordance with my Church's stance on tithing; the pastor at my old church stood up and said "please donate 5% to the church, and 5% to others." Of course, they also had their hand out a reasonably large amount of time, but it was generally fundraising for the cause of the month.

It should be noted that my churches have *never* treated the tithe as anything other than the way things *should* be done. No negative onus is attached to those that don't tithe, it's just a matter of what you should be doing. I wouldn't be thrown out of church if I never tithed a day in my life.

 

[Road Guy]

The Old Testimate says 10% but the New Testimate says you should give "what you can" (IMO)

 

[Sapper PE LS]

I'll also say that I don't pay anything to churches that obviously get plenty. I don't mind if the church makes millions and spends it on things that are genuinely good, like caring for the poor or whatever, but if the pastor makes millions, well, come on, there's probably about $800k per year that could be doing better work than sitting in your personal bank account buddy.

As I've stated before, I won't give to a church that engages in philosophies I detest, and one such philosophy is the "give until it hurts" mentality. I've sat in churches where the minister or deacon or whoever went on and on about how God blesses a cheerful giver and laid on the guilt so thick that you could cut it with a knife, and then you'd see the poor old folks or the single mother of three pull out their checkbook and write this months rent away to the church. And no, that isn't an exageration, I've seen people in foreclosure and bankruptcy still writing checks to the church. They were penniless when I knew them, they died penniless. Televangelists fall into this category as well as the point in my first paragraph.

 

[envirotex]

EC based on your post I don't think you "tithe" at all

tithe (t

)

n.
1.
a. A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
b. The institution or obligation of paying tithes.




you simply donate to charities of your choice and target an amount of 10% of your gross income. This is very gernous of you but it's not a "tithe". Tithing in my interpretation is a regular payment to the church that one is a member of and not just a collection of charitable donations that may or may not be equal to 10%.

From Corinthians 8:12

12 For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.

From Corinthians 9:7...

7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Also, Jesus himself taught about how to give...He said sell everything, and follow me. And He also said not to be righteous about tithing (or following any other laws of man, for that matter [i.e. the sabbath]) while forgetting about mercy and compassion...

And I promise, no more scripture today...

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Lights, camera, silence on the set

Tape rolling, 3-2-1 action

Welcome to the Church of Suicidal

We'll have a sermon and a wonderful recital

But before we go on there's something I must mention

An important message I must bring to your attention

I was in meditation and prayer last night

I was awakened by a shining bright light

Overhead a glorious spirit, he gave me a message and you all

need to hear it

"Send me your money," that's what he said

He said to "Send me your money"

Now if you can only send a dollar or two

There ain't a hell of a lot I can do for you

But if you want to see heaven's door

Make out a check for five hundred or more

"Send me your money," do you hear what I said?

"Send me your money"

Now give me some bass, um yea that's how he likes it

Now give me some silence, for all you sinners

Now give me some bass, yea that was funky

Now take them on home Brother Clark, send me your money

Here comes another con hiding behind a collar

His only god is the almighty dollar

He ain't no prophet, he ain't healer

He's just a two bit goddam money stealer

Send me your money

Send it, you got to send it

Send me your money

You hear what I'm saying?

Send it, send it

Send me your money

How much you give is your own choice

But to me it is the difference between a Porsche and a Rolls Royce

I want you to make it hurt when you dig into your pocket

Cause it makes me feel so good to watch my profits rocket

Send me your money

Now dig in deep, dig real deep into your pocket

I want you to make it hurt!

We'll take cash, we'll take checks

We'll take credit cards, we'll take jewelry

We'll take your momma's dentures if they got gold in them

So whose gonna be the next king of the fakers

Whose gonna take the place of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?

See my momma, she didn't raise no fool

Couse you can't put a price on a miracle

Amen

Suicidal Tendencies--Send me your money

 

[envirotex]

Reach out and touch faith...Your own, personal Jesus...

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^That was an awesome song.

Still love the Dream on song/video.

 

[goodal]

Envirotex, IMO (and my pastors) when he said that to the rich young ruler, it was because that mans world was wrapped up in what he owned and how much he had. He was trying to see if he could forsake the worlds treasures and follow Christ. Again IMO, it was not an example, as some have said, that Christians should not be prosperous or have wealth. We simply are not to love this present world more than we do God.

 

[goodal]

Sapper, you are correct. There are scum out there that abuse simple minded folk and televangelist are part of it, for the most part.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Ah, I see. Yes, there is room for interpretation.

I agree...which drove my SS nuts when I was a kid.

Especially when I noted that when the OT was written, a base 12 number system was being used, so 10% (1 in 10) was obviously a later modification to what the OT wroters actually wrote.

 

[Exception Collection]

Envirotex, IMO (and my pastors) when he said that to the rich young ruler, it was because that mans world was wrapped up in what he owned and how much he had. He was trying to see if he could forsake the worlds treasures and follow Christ. Again IMO, it was not an example, as some have said, that Christians should not be prosperous or have wealth. We simply are not to love this present world more than we do God.

That's certainly a large part of it, but we're also supposed to use what we've been given to aid others. We don't need to bankrupt ourselves to do so, though, as long as money (or comfort) isn't our main motivator. That's what I've always been taught, at least.

Ah, I see. Yes, there is room for interpretation.

I agree...which drove my SS nuts when I was a kid.

Especially when I noted that when the OT was written, a base 12 number system was being used, so 10% (1 in 10) was obviously a later modification to what the OT wroters actually wrote.

Citation? I've never heard that the Hebrews used a duodecimal system.

 

[engineergurl]

I thought the dewy decimal system was for books...

EG's blatant attempt to derail the thread before a train wreck occurs.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I know the vast majority of churches are on the up-an-up, but I can't help but think of this when talking about churches and money:

And the song "Hellaluja" by ICP (an obvious rip on the scam of late-night Televangelism)

[preacher] "Give God the first portion of your income, say that with me."
[crowd repeats] "Give God the first portion of your income."
[preacher] "Give it first! Not after the deducts. Not after the social security, and the hospitalization, and the malnutrition. Not after all these things on ya check, ya say 'I'ma give God a little what's left.' You do, and that's what
you gonna get from God."
Who am I? I'm not the Devil,
I can take you to my level,
Above the rocks, above the earth,
Tell me what your soul is worth.
How much money do you make?
How much will you let me take?
I will give you tranquility,
Just send you welfare checks to me.
Life is going to expire,
And your soul will burn in fire.
You will perish in the thunder,
Unless you call my hotline number.
God has asked you to make me rich,
Me and my fat-rat gaudy bitch.
On your T.V.'s late at night,
Send those checks, and I'll guide you to the light.
[preacher] "Don't put away your wallets just yet, brothers and sisters. There's somebody here I'd like all of you to meet. This is little Jonathan.
Jonathan, say hello to the lovely people."
[Jonathan] "Hello."
[preacher] "Jonathan has problems. Twisted neck, tangled legs, crooked spine! But we can heal this boy! For just, uh, six thousand dollars, we can heal this boy!"
God called me and then stopped by,
And he told me you're gonna die,
Unless you buy my holy water,
(Check, cash, or a money order.)
This is true, don't question me,
I'll even send you shit for free.
It's only ten buck for the call,
And I'll send a prayer, no charge at all.
Put your lips up to the screen,
Close your eyelids, and intervene,
Your lips to mine, now send the cash,
And while you're there, you can kiss my ass.
Take your paycheck, and send me half,
And I'll send you God's autograph.
I'll get you Allah's, and Buddha's too,
Even Zeus, I don't give a fuck who,
Just send me that money.
[preacher] "Would you like to be healed, little Jonathan?"
[Jonathan] "Yeah, Reverend."
[preacher] "You see, brothers and sisters, this-"
Beep-beep! Beep-beep!
[preacher] "Excuse me. [under breath] I told him never to page me on a sermon day.
Yes? Uh-huh.
Hallelujah.
Outtie.
People, that was the lord, today only, he will heal this boy, for just
five thousand dollars!"
Pass the collection plate
Pass the collection plate
Pass the collection plate
Pass the collection plate
(Show me how you give, I'll tell you how to live.)
Your total's twenty-two eleven,
For your set of keys to heaven.
Make the checks out in my name,
Me or God it's all the same.
Bring your crippled ass to me,
Pay my usher the holy fee.
I'll bless your legs, and bless your chair,
Then wheel your bitch-ass outta here.
Now a special ceremony,
This part don't cost any money.
Drip a drop of blessed water,
Now I fertilize your daughter.
Even though I fucked a hooker,
Took your baby girl and shook her,
You still buy everything I sell,
And I'm living well
See you in hell.
[preacher] "Four-thousand eight-hundred, nine-hundred, five thousand-Hallelujah!
You did it, brothers and sisters! Are you ready, Jonathan? [Johnathan] Yes Reverend. [preacher] Lord almighty,
we've met your price, give me the healing power, I can feel it! Lord!
Rumilumilamanamanumi! This boy is healed!"
[Jonathan] "Huh?"
[preacher] "Now, to the naked eye, it would appear that this boy has not been healed, but I can assure you, this boy's spirit has been healed! Inside this tangled, mangled frame is a healed little boy.
His spirit is healed! Hallelujah!"

 

[goodal]

Hey, don't knock my gravy train there buddy. Mega churches, and their multiple phases of construction, help us make payroll.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Locally, pastor of a megachurch is a state legislator.

Hmmm...