Career Advice please

[Risk]

I recently passed the Florida PE exam for civil engineering. I work for a very small Civil Engineering company in south Florida. Aside from the owner, I am the only PE. I do everything for our company from proposals and marketing to ICPR modeling (storm water), lift station calculations, all permitting, certifications, inspections, closeout, billing, etc. The only thing i do not do for us is collections and the books. Of course the owner is the only one who can do the books.

We are very sucessful in these bad times. We have every single large civil job that is currently under construction and we seem to keep piling them on. Again, I am the only engineer in the office besides our owner (not even any staff engineers) and he mostly does marketing, and I do the rest. We have one cadd technician and one secretary. We compete against local firms with 25 to 100 employees and usually win the jobs over them. We have an outstanding reputation and there does not seem to be an end to our work, like many other firms are experiencing right now.

I started as a cadd technician in 1997 fresh out of the military. I put myself through school while working full time, with a family (and children). I have ran the complete gambit from technician - to designer - to engineer - to PE, so I feel I am valuable. I also have strong ties to our community and assist our company in project leads and marketing. Many of my childhood friends are now the managers and owners of the local businesses and public sector governments. This benefits us greatly throughout each year.

Now that I have told my story, my issue is this..... I feel like I am undervalued and underpaid. While I am very greatful to have a job in these economical times, I feel that my employer uses this to keep our salaries low. He compares us to all of the failing companies and people that we know who are losing their jobs or getting their pay reduced. I cannot even discuss the public sector engineers that I know for comparison, becuse he dismisses them as overpaid and protected. Our company is not in this situation and we are doing fine. The proof is in owners recent upgrade in his home. He now lives in a million dollar house on the river.. purchased in 2010...and a new car every year. While I am making the very same that I was in 2005 when i started working for him. I have received raises and reduction based on the economy... but still, i am right back where I started.

Can anyone please shed light on what I should expect to receive for compensation? Things like this are VOODOO to discuss. It seems the only way to find anything out is anonymously. Currently I receive a salary, 3% retiement match contribution, 2 weeks vacation, and 6 holidays. We do not have health benefits, car allowances, phone allowances, or any of the sort.

What should I expect to make? And, are full benefits "standard" for a professional?... Or is there nothing "standard" anymore? I dont feel like I am a "green" PE, since i have been doing this for more than a decade, in a project manager role.

HELP!! And thank you in advance for any real advice.

 

[NCcarguy]

Well....If you're "Feeling" this, then most of the time you probably are being under paid. As an owner in a company, I'll tell you that I would HATE to lose a valuable employee over a few dollars, so if you're as valuable as you say you are to him, then a discussion is certainly in order. I think I've read in your post that you've tried to talk with him, and not had any success at that, so maybe he's just not approachable.

If THAT's the case, then I say start looking for other options. I would HATE to be working with someone that could openly be talked to....hate it! And I can honestly say that no one that works here would feel that way, we talk openly about everything all the time anyway, so I can't see that being a problem.

How much you should be making is really not a matter of comparing to someone else, and no doubt you're a victim of the paradigm that you're a designer, and not a PE, I've left company after company to get to this point in my career, just to get away from the notion that all I can ever be will be what I walked in the door as, so I know. I started as a rodman with NCDOT then became a drafter with a national company a year later...and stayed there for 15 years. I left that company with TONS more knowledge, but was treated as the drafter I started as, and now I own my own company, had a great year last year and am a PE and LEED AP.....so maybe they didn't know what I was capable of.

OK, SO I rambled on there a bit, but maybe you'll find something to help you out.

 

[DynaMechEng]

I recently passed the Florida PE exam for civil engineering. I work for a very small Civil Engineering company in south Florida. Aside from the owner, I am the only PE. I do everything for our company from proposals and marketing to ICPR modeling (storm water), lift station calculations, all permitting, certifications, inspections, closeout, billing, etc. The only thing i do not do for us is collections and the books. Of course the owner is the only one who can do the books.
We are very sucessful in these bad times. We have every single large civil job that is currently under construction and we seem to keep piling them on. Again, I am the only engineer in the office besides our owner (not even any staff engineers) and he mostly does marketing, and I do the rest. We have one cadd technician and one secretary. We compete against local firms with 25 to 100 employees and usually win the jobs over them. We have an outstanding reputation and there does not seem to be an end to our work, like many other firms are experiencing right now.

I started as a cadd technician in 1997 fresh out of the military. I put myself through school while working full time, with a family (and children). I have ran the complete gambit from technician - to designer - to engineer - to PE, so I feel I am valuable. I also have strong ties to our community and assist our company in project leads and marketing. Many of my childhood friends are now the managers and owners of the local businesses and public sector governments. This benefits us greatly throughout each year.

Now that I have told my story, my issue is this..... I feel like I am undervalued and underpaid. While I am very greatful to have a job in these economical times, I feel that my employer uses this to keep our salaries low. He compares us to all of the failing companies and people that we know who are losing their jobs or getting their pay reduced. I cannot even discuss the public sector engineers that I know for comparison, becuse he dismisses them as overpaid and protected. Our company is not in this situation and we are doing fine. The proof is in owners recent upgrade in his home. He now lives in a million dollar house on the river.. purchased in 2010...and a new car every year. While I am making the very same that I was in 2005 when i started working for him. I have received raises and reduction based on the economy... but still, i am right back where I started.

Can anyone please shed light on what I should expect to receive for compensation? Things like this are VOODOO to discuss. It seems the only way to find anything out is anonymously. Currently I receive a salary, 3% retiement match contribution, 2 weeks vacation, and 6 holidays. We do not have health benefits, car allowances, phone allowances, or any of the sort.

What should I expect to make? And, are full benefits "standard" for a professional?... Or is there nothing "standard" anymore? I dont feel like I am a "green" PE, since i have been doing this for more than a decade, in a project manager role.

HELP!! And thank you in advance for any real advice.

Others may scoff at this, but I think you should expect to make between 65-80k with full benefits. I'm a mechanical engineer who just got his PE and I live/work in FL. 65-80k is in line with what many FL government employees (with PE's) make.

Your boss should do/live well if he has worked hard to build a company from the ground up. It's quite risky to run a company and you never know when the situation could turn.

However, with that being said, you should enjoy the fruit of the tree. If he can't/isn't willing to compensate you in comparison to others in your area/field, you should start looking around. If you get a much better offer, take it to him and see what he will do. If he won't give you additional compensation/benefits, take the other job. Some employers won't make these decisions until they have no other choice. If he feels that the risk of losing you is greater than the cost of keeping you (or hiring/training someone else), he'll pay you more (if he's reasonable). If not, then you know where you stand and it's time to move on anyway.

Obviously, be professional about it, but do what you have to do.

Hope that helps you!

 

[Risk]

We just got paychecks..

My Current payrate is 2600 every two weeks...=$67,600 annually. I also get a reimbursement check for $500.00 every month. This was originally to offset any salary deficiency, but since has went on the books as (phone, car allowance, medical)... whatever it is that he does with it.. for his own purposes.

Bottom line is this is all of my compensation. Please tell me if i am being unreasonable. I really want to enjoy coming to work.

I spoke with two managers of local firms and asked the same question in confidence. They both told me I should be b/w 75 - 85 with full benefits (including car allowance if travel is part of my job & phone).

 

[DVINNY]

Those other two managers you spoke to are on target. If you have the attributes that you described above, then you should be at least in the $75k and above range with benefits. Without benefits, you should be at $90k or so to make up the difference of having to provide your own benefits. $67k isn't too bad. I'm glad you didn't write $45 or $50k, but from what I have gathered in your posts, you appear to be underpaid.

But I have a feeling you know this already, and are looking for reinforcement. NCcarguy hit the nail on the head in his post above.

 

[maryannette]

Currently I receive a salary, 3% retiement match contribution, 2 weeks vacation, and 6 holidays. We do not have health benefits, car allowances, phone allowances, or any of the sort.

You've been there 13+ years. It is common to receive more than 2 weeks of vacation after a few years. If you were a government employee, you would be an engineer 0800 series at a GS-12 pay ($60K - $78K) without blinking. You are probably qualified at the GS-13 level, which would take you to $93K. You would get 9 paid holidays and 19.5 days each of paid annual leave (vacation) and paid sick leave.

 

[ALBin517]

We just got paychecks..
My Current payrate is 2600 every two weeks...=$67,600 annually. I also get a reimbursement check for $500.00 every month. This was originally to offset any salary deficiency, but since has went on the books as (phone, car allowance, medical)... whatever it is that he does with it.. for his own purposes.

Bottom line is this is all of my compensation. Please tell me if i am being unreasonable. I really want to enjoy coming to work.

I spoke with two managers of local firms and asked the same question in confidence. They both told me I should be b/w 75 - 85 with full benefits (including car allowance if travel is part of my job & phone).

The only way you will get significantly more cash is if you change jobs.

Your boss sounds like one of those who thinks he should enjoy all the fruits from the company because it's his. Those are common.

But even if he comes across with another 10k per year, it seems like you are still underpaid. And even if you are not underpaid, you will be before long.

So I'd say shop around. See if you are worth more to somebody else. What's the worse that can happen? Normally I'd say maybe the boss will find out and he'll can you. But it sounds like you are his cash cow - he will keep you as long as you are willing to keep coming in.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

My Current payrate is 2600 every two weeks...=$67,600 annually. I also get a reimbursement check for $500.00 every month. This was originally to offset any salary deficiency, but since has went on the books as (phone, car allowance, medical)... whatever it is that he does with it.. for his own purposes.

Sounds like you're in pretty good shape to me.

 

[Dleg]

I think you ought to be getting more, especially since you aren't getting benefits. You need to bring this up to him, but be prepared to leave. It sounds to me like your boss has a grabbing as much as he can, while he can, kind of mentality. He might be amenable to a raise if he thinks he will lose you - it sounds like he owes much of his prosperity to you. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't offer very much. If he was the generous sort, you probably would be paid better by now.

I would never advise leaving a job under the current economic circumstances, but you should start looking around. Having a few leads or even offers in hand would be a good thing for when you have this discussion.

 

[ALBin517]

It sounds to me like your boss has a grabbing as much as he can, while he can, kind of mentality. He might be amenable to a raise if he thinks he will lose you - it sounds like he owes much of his prosperity to you. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't offer very much. If he was the generous sort, you probably would be paid better by now.

Bosses like this... I think you should ask for two raises.

"I don't want to have to go job shopping every time I deserve a raise. So you can keep me now by matching what the other company offered. But I want another $X raise on January 1st so I don't have to go through all this again next year."

 

[Peele1]

My Current payrate is 2600 every two weeks...=$67,600 annually. I also get a reimbursement check for $500.00 every month. This was originally to offset any salary deficiency, but since has went on the books as (phone, car allowance, medical)... whatever it is that he does with it.. for his own purposes.

Sounds like you're in pretty good shape to me.

Depending on where in the country you are, doesn't sound too bad, other than the low retirement and vacation. That $500 is most likely not taxed, meaning about $9,000 per year equivalent, putting you at about $75-80,000. Not bad.

If you want to leave, then leave. The #1 reason that people leave a job is the manager/management not the pay. Do they treat you well?

 

[Risk]

My Current payrate is 2600 every two weeks...=$67,600 annually. I also get a reimbursement check for $500.00 every month. This was originally to offset any salary deficiency, but since has went on the books as (phone, car allowance, medical)... whatever it is that he does with it.. for his own purposes.

Sounds like you're in pretty good shape to me.

Depending on where in the country you are, doesn't sound too bad, other than the low retirement and vacation. That $500 is most likely not taxed, meaning about $9,000 per year equivalent, putting you at about $75-80,000. Not bad.

If you want to leave, then leave. The #1 reason that people leave a job is the manager/management not the pay. Do they treat you well?

See... This feels like you are thinking just like him. He simply states the same thing. You make 75K a year (once you add everything up) and then provides a straight line comparison to others in the field who make the same. But the deal is.. they make 75K a year with benefits, and a phone, and car allowance.. and their next raise is based on the real number while mine is based on the reduced number..... It is not apples to apples and if you graph that over ten years... It gets really bad. I absolutely do not keep up with the same guy whose salary really is 75K today, with ther benefits, and cola raises over the same period.

This is where I get chapped. And yes, I do enjoy my job... and the people I work with... including the boss/owner.

 

[mvanpatten]

I think you're missing the boat when you're just talking salary. You have a small successful firm, for which the owner will ultimately want to get out. You should consider talking to him about ownership, and transitioning into a partnership with him. If you just go in talking salary, it will come across as money is your only concern. But if you talk to him about succession planning and wanting to play a larger role in ownership, you'll be better received.

 

[Risk]

I think you're missing the boat when you're just talking salary. You have a small successful firm, for which the owner will ultimately want to get out. You should consider talking to him about ownership, and transitioning into a partnership with him. If you just go in talking salary, it will come across as money is your only concern. But if you talk to him about succession planning and wanting to play a larger role in ownership, you'll be better received.

I asked the question...Is there any room for partnership or anything of the sort....The answer I got was absolutely not. There will only be one owner. "What do you think? I am just going to build a company and hand it over to someone either in whole or in part?"

 

[wilheldp_PE]

I asked the question...Is there any room for partnership or anything of the sort....The answer I got was absolutely not. There will only be one owner. "What do you think? I am just going to build a company and hand it over to someone either in whole or in part?"

Having a succession plan just keeps the company from getting buried with him when he dies...unless he has offspring that would be interested in taking over.

 

[udpolo15]

I asked the question...Is there any room for partnership or anything of the sort....The answer I got was absolutely not. There will only be one owner. "What do you think? I am just going to build a company and hand it over to someone either in whole or in part?"

Having a succession plan just keeps the company from getting buried with him when he dies...unless he has offspring that would be interested in taking over.

agree. I think this is lost on many owners of small companies. They work hard to build equity in company and then realize too late that they don't have a mechanism to cash out.

Plus he isn't just handing it over - he is essentially paying you partly in stock. Also - he could set it up so there are opportunities for you to purchase stock from him on a periodic basis. At the end of the day, it is a lot easier to convince someone with a 10/15% stake in a company to buy you out that someone with a 0% stake who knows you want out.

the owner sounds kind of like an ass (or at least a very shortsighted business owner) - I would look else where.

 

[Dleg]

The more you describe your situation, the more I agree that you should look elsewhere. Do it before you get too bitter or pissed off and burn any bridges.

 

[ALBin517]

I asked the question...Is there any room for partnership or anything of the sort....The answer I got was absolutely not. There will only be one owner. "What do you think? I am just going to build a company and hand it over to someone either in whole or in part?"

Having a succession plan just keeps the company from getting buried with him when he dies...unless he has offspring that would be interested in taking over.

agree. I think this is lost on many owners of small companies. They work hard to build equity in company and then realize too late that they don't have a mechanism to cash out.

Plus he isn't just handing it over - he is essentially paying you partly in stock. Also - he could set it up so there are opportunities for you to purchase stock from him on a periodic basis. At the end of the day, it is a lot easier to convince someone with a 10/15% stake in a company to buy you out that someone with a 0% stake who knows you want out.

the owner sounds kind of like an ass (or at least a very shortsighted business owner) - I would look else where.

+1