California State Schools

[benbo]

This is pretty bad - they are going to close all admissions to Cal State Schools -

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/71673.html

A lot of kids count on these schools and more will if they also cut admissions to UC schools.

I work for the state, and they currently have three furlough days and are talking about a fourth (20% pay cut). So far my agency has been exempt, but I doubt that can continue.

Oh well, I guess they have to do something with the huge deficit.

 

[csb]

Holy crap! You know, that little "Balance the Budget" thing at the LA Times included this, but it's odd to see it really happening. I hope you remain exempt!

 

[Guest]

This is pretty bad - they are going to close all admissions to Cal State Schools -http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/71673.html

A lot of kids count on these schools and more will if they also cut admissions to UC schools.

That's a real shame but also a reality looking at how steep cuts must be made to balance the budget. Florida has been in the same boat - they have drastically reduced enrollment in the state schools and combined that with a massive tuition hike (between tuition and 'fees'). So far, they have been able to avoid an outright denial of any new admissions but desperate times do call for desperate measures. Hopefully the enrollment freeze only lasts for a semester or two AT MOST!

I work for the state, and they currently have three furlough days and are talking about a fourth (20% pay cut). So far my agency has been exempt, but I doubt that can continue.
Oh well, I guess they have to do something with the huge deficit.

One has to wonder who/what agencies would be exempt ... but then doesn't that get into an issue with state employee unions? I would assume the law suits that would ensue would surely make this option NOT appealing unless the CA legislature has the same level of disdain for public servants as the Florida legislature has for it's employees.

Wishing for better times for you, all californians, and all americans!!

JR

 

[benbo]

One has to wonder who/what agencies would be exempt ...

Up until now, all of these furloughs have been imposed by executive order from the governor. We are exempt because our agency was established specifically to not be under the control of the governor. Other groups that are safety related (ie some hospitals, prisons, highway patrol) are not under the furlough. So about 1/10 of the 240,000 employees are not being furloughed.

Now, if the legislature puts the furloughs in the budget, then we'll get it too.

And I never mention our exemption to other state workers, although most of them know about it and are rightly pissed off.

 

[Dleg]

That stinks, benbo. And, on top of all that, that's just an amazing case of incompetence. I mean, I understand it when a shitty little third-world US territory starts furloughing staff every other week because of a poorly run government (ahem....), but I thought CA had a GDP larger than most European nations? And those clowns can't figure out how to keep their government in the black.... amazing.

 

[Fluvial]

Apparently in 2007 the GDP of California was the world's 8th largest. I don't know if that is still true today, considering the economic slowdown.

It's my understanding that the budget problems of California are not as much related to incompetent governance (although you will find some of that in every state) but related to the many, many propositions which have passed into law, Proposition 13 specifically (due to Prop 13, CA's revenue is mostly from sales and income taxes, which are suffering due to economic turndown). The basic problem is that a lot of things were authorized without any way to pay for them.

Here is a website showing the breakdown of CA spending. Spending for higher education has shrunk (surprise) but other things have not.

 

[Dleg]

^That's what I am talking about. The legislature is part of "the government". A stupid legislature, not doing their job responsibly = bad government.

 

[Fluvial]

I think also the citizens aren't thinking so clearly when they vote for things like Proposition 13. It all sounds real good on paper but ... how are things going to get funded?

And they elected those yahoos too!

 

[Dleg]

^Of course citizens do not think clearly enough, not to be entrusted with voting on complicated funding issues. That's why we went with a republican form of government, not a true democracy. It's the job of the legislature to decide how to fund new initiatives, and if it is something that their particular state's constitution requires a referendum for, then it is the legislature's job to clearly frame the question to the voters: i.e., should CA approve the spending of xxxxx, through the levying of additional taxes in the amount of yyyy to every Californian.....

It's the legislature's fault for not taking into consideration the vast majority of less-than-intelligent voters, or (assuming bad intentions), doing so intentionally.....

 

[Guest]

^That's what I am talking about. The legislature is part of "the government". A stupid legislature, not doing their job responsibly = bad government.

That was kinda my thought on the issue.

I think also the citizens aren't thinking so clearly when they vote for things like Proposition 13. It all sounds real good on paper but ... how are things going to get funded?

In Florida, citizens only point of entry into the legislative process is to get a number of signatures on a petition to have the proposal added to the ballet. It has resulted in some really screwy things getting added to the state constitution.

^Of course citizens do not think clearly enough, not to be entrusted with voting on complicated funding issues. That's why we went with a republican form of government, not a true democracy. It's the job of the legislature to decide how to fund new initiatives, and if it is something that their particular state's constitution requires a referendum for, then it is the legislature's job to clearly frame the question to the voters: i.e., should CA approve the spending of xxxxx, through the levying of additional taxes in the amount of yyyy to every Californian.....

You know I have often wondered about this ... as a person formerly responsible for assisting in the evaluation of funding needs at a state agency, I always wondered why funding options were NOT included with the analysis that goes along with the funding.

Point in case:

Florida citizens voted to add an amendment to fund the design/construction of a high-speed bullet train to service the south Florida corridor (e.g. between Orlando and Miami). The amendment was never popular with then-governor Jeb Bush and he ended up putting the issue back to the voters during the 2nd term election to vote between reduced class sizes or continued funding for the high-speed train. Jeb Bush actively used his office to lobby for repeal of the amendment by foisting the promise that reduced class sizes and increased teacher pay would ensue. Fast-forward, voters repealed the high-speed train amendment and the reduced class size got a modest boost but teacher pay only enjoyed a marginal (at best) increase.

I believe that this funding option has been largely ignored because it doesn't allow for the below-board legislative activities by either party. Besides, it makes way too much sense for them to actually introduce that level of responsibilty into the appropriations process.

JR

 

[Fluvial]

Dleg: Agreed, in the case of referendums which originate in the Legislature.

In CA, they can also be brought by the citizens (as was the case for Proposition 13). Those don't go through the legislature, do they?

 

[Guest]

In CA, they can also be brought by the citizens (as was the case for Proposition 13). Those don't go through the legislature, do they?

They don't, per se, but they do go through a vetting process and must meet some level of judicial review.

In Florida, they have added additional constraints for adding such measures to a ballot. Part of it includes a financial analysis of some sort.

JR

 

[Dleg]

- Exactly - it shouldn't go on the ballet unless the cost is also shown, IMO. Otherwise, everyone would want to vote for more government services.

Of course, there are probably still millions of people who would vote for more government services regardless of the price tag - aka the people who won't be paying any taxes anwyay.

 

[Fluvial]

I read about all that on Wikipedia but it's still confusing to me. It says the AG's office accepts the petitions; I suppose they fix up the actual language of the Propositions then? Or do they just more or less go with what the citizens had written up?

 

[benbo]

In Cali, probably 95% of the engineering jobs are funded by special funds. For example, CALTRANS is funded by gas taxes, and energy agencies, like mine, are funded by surcharges on utility bills. THese are still taxes and fees, but at least the entire special fund budget here hasn't increased that much over time.

The way the budget works is nuts though. I sometimes work on "Budget Change Proposals",which basically means when an agency asks for more money each year. THe way the budgeting works is they always start with the status quo and then ask for more. Technically an agency could ask for less, but they never do. So the budget never shrinks, it just keeps growing.

 

[Guest]

I read about all that on Wikipedia but it's still confusing to me. It says the AG's office accepts the petitions; I suppose they fix up the actual language of the Propositions then? Or do they just more or less go with what the citizens had written up?

I think the AG's Office works on the constitutional issues and does an analysis to see if it passes 'the sniff test'. I am really not sure how it works ... one of those things that I have had interest but never quite had time to get more into it.

In Cali, probably 95% of the engineering jobs are funded by special funds. For example, CALTRANS is funded by gas taxes, and energy agencies, like mine, are funded by surcharges on utility bills. THese are still taxes and fees, but at least the entire special fund budget here hasn't increased that much over time.

Right - typically if you have a specialized service, the funding source is often linked to a tax source but you cannot track the money from collection to payor source. I know several of the remediation programs were administered from trust funds whereby those tax sources were payed into the trust. The problem is that those trusts were often raided and replaced with IOUs - long story, short: many of those programs are spending out MUCH less now and in fact, are on life support.

The way the budget works is nuts though. I sometimes work on "Budget Change Proposals",which basically means when an agency asks for more money each year. THe way the budgeting works is they always start with the status quo and then ask for more. Technically an agency could ask for less, but they never do. So the budget never shrinks, it just keeps growing.

I worked on similar budgets when i worked in Florida since I was familiar with the prevailing contract rates for various work activities. And you are right - reducing budget = tacit acknowledgment that your program can be readily reduced in budget or eliminated and subsumed into another group. I got in between some of the turf wars for budgeting and it was downright ugly ....

I always hope for more repsonsible approach .. but that is just asking too much!

JR

 

[cement]

does Cali still have free tuition at the state schools for residents?

 

[benbo]

does Cali still have free tuition at the state schools for residents?

No. Not that I know of.

 

[cement]

I think it was at one time. It is still the cheapest in the country.

lowest cost

california state schools

lavish spending will dig you a hole in time

 

[dastuff]

Benbo, I was wondering from your point of view what would be a solution?

I think the gov. furloughs was to convince the public that they are in the same boat.. With estimates up to 20% underemployment in the state, the gov. couldn't continue spending the same on their employees without a public outcry i suppose.