Structural II Exam/ Licensure

cedent · Nov 24, 2008

I live and work in a state that requires the Structural I exam for a PE license in Structural Engineering. I completed it in April 2007. Recently, I have been contemplating taking the Structural II exam in order to pursue licensure in other states.

After reading the short article in Structure Magazine (NOV 2008), I am beginning to question my course of action. According to the article there is an ongoing study with the goal of creating an exam to replace the current Structural I and II PE exams by April 2011.

Does anyone know what form the new proposed exam will likely take... or what the states currently requiring SE I and SE II exams will likely require for comity? I realize you can't give me firm answers, but I thought I'd ask for educated guesses.

I posted this question on another forum, where it was deleted. A previous responder indicated he had heard the test would be replaced by a single, 16 hour test taken over two days.

kevo_55 · Nov 24, 2008

cedent,

Welcome to the structural forum! I think it is pretty safe to say that your legit question won't be deleted.

You are right, news has been brewing for quite some time to toss out the SE I and SEII exams and replace them with the SE exam. No one really knows just yet what format it will take but I have a gut feeling that the first day exam will be SE I "like" and the second day exam will be SE II "like." It will be a 16 hour exam, as was posted on the other crappy board.

If I were you and were thinking about just getting the SE exams over with, I would take the SE II before they get rid of it. Taking a 1 day exam is MUCH better than taking a 2 day exam. Plus, you can retake the SE II exam if you need to. If you fail one day of the new SE exam you will need to retake the whole thing.

It also can be said that the SE I + SE II = SE (post 2011).

Many states do not require the SE II for structural licensure. Heck, many states don't even require the SE I for structural licensure. Many in the structural community has been pushing for a national structural exam for quite some time. I am just glad that it is finally happening.

I hope this helps!

Jennifer · Nov 24, 2008

What states require the SEII right now? I have been thinking about this myself. Is this something that I should go ahead and take if I passed the SEI this time. Just thought I'd ask about this to see what you guys think. If I pass SEI and work in states other than Illinois and CA, will I be fine or at some point in time if I haven't passed SEII, will I not be able to apply in those states? Just curious what anyone thinks on this subject.

cedent · Nov 24, 2008

Thanks, It does help. I'm not looking forward to the SE II... but another 8 hour test does sound better than another 16 hour test. Did you study for the SE II more or less than you studied for the SE I?

I studied about 100 hours the first time I took the SE I and about 150 the second time. This time around I have a baby that will be 9-10 months old, so I don't know how much time I can invest.

kevo_55 · Nov 24, 2008

Jennifer,

As of right now, here are the states that require the SE II for SE licensure: CA, WA, OR, ID, HI, NV, AZ, NE, IL, and LA. Some of these states may requite the SE I, SE II, or other state written SE exams. Also, some of these states do not have structural authority in their licensure laws. I believe that IL and HI are the only ones right now.

Also, it doesn't matter where you take the NCEES exams. You may need an NCEES record or another way to prove that you've passed it though.

cedent,

I studied more for the SE I as I did for the SE II. I had a tougher time with the SEI. I do much better on essay type questions.

I must have studied 300+ hours for the SE I and maybe 120-150 hours for the SE II.

ARLORD · Nov 24, 2008

kevo_55 said:
Jennifer,
As of right now, here are the states that require the SE II for SE licensure: CA, WA, OR, ID, HI, NV, AZ, NE, IL, and LA. Some of these states may requite the SE I, SE II, or other state written SE exams. Also, some of these states do not have structural authority in their licensure laws. I believe that IL and HI are the only ones right now.

Also, it doesn't matter where you take the NCEES exams. You may need an NCEES record or another way to prove that you've passed it though.

cedent,

I studied more for the SE I as I did for the SE II. I had a tougher time with the SEI. I do much better on essay type questions.

I must have studied 300+ hours for the SE I and maybe 120-150 hours for the SE II.

kevo-55,

I am the opposite, I prefer multiple choice questions over essay. I know the material, but I am slow getting the info from my brain down on paper in a clear, legible, orderly fashion. In addition to that, trying to work faster leads me to make stupid mistakes, with no time to check my answers. Different strokes, different folks.

ARLORD · Nov 24, 2008

Jennifer said:
What states require the SEII right now? I have been thinking about this myself. Is this something that I should go ahead and take if I passed the SEI this time. Just thought I'd ask about this to see what you guys think. If I pass SEI and work in states other than Illinois and CA, will I be fine or at some point in time if I haven't passed SEII, will I not be able to apply in those states? Just curious what anyone thinks on this subject.

Eleven states currently recognize some form of SE licensure in the form of a Title Act, Full Practice Act or Limited Practice Act.

Full Practice Act is the most strict(IL, HI), where only SE's can do structural engineering. Title Act only limits who can use the title "Structural Engineer", but in states with a Title Act PE's and SE's can do structural engineering.

Limited Practice Act(CA, WA, OR) limits the type of structures that requires a SE for the design, like buildings over 4 stories, hospitals, schools, etc. In these states, PE's can't design certain type structures limites by the state.

See the following link for definitions and list of states:

http://www.pevault.com/content/view/5/1/

Bigwolf · Nov 24, 2008

ARLORD said:
kevo-55,
I am the opposite, I prefer multiple choice questions over essay. I know the material, but I am slow getting the info from my brain down on paper in a clear, legible, orderly fashion. In addition to that, trying to work faster leads me to make stupid mistakes, with no time to check my answers. Different strokes, different folks.

I'll let you know which I prefer after I get my SE II results

kevo_55 · Nov 24, 2008

LOL!

Different strokes for different folks indeed!!

For me, I can do hard crap all day long with little problem but ask me something simple and I'll start fading. :huh:

itsmemario · Nov 24, 2008

I heard it from the man himself, Gene Corley, NCEES board member and president; the new SE exam starting in 2010 will be one 16 hour test. Both days will have morning will be multiple choice and afternoon will be essay fomat. It is not set yet but he thinks that people will be able to pass one part and fail the other and not have to take the part they passed the next time, but that is not for sure. But the bad news is if you have already passed the SE I and have not passed the SE II (or viseversa), in 2010 the slate will be cleaned and you will have to take the full 16 hour test over again and again pass both days. So if you have passed one of the tests, better get started on studying for the other, otherwise you will have to take the full exam agian. Hope this information helps.

ARLORD · Nov 24, 2008

itsmemario said:
I heard it from the man himself, Gene Corley, NCEES board member and president; the new SE exam starting in 2010 will be one 16 hour test. Both days will have morning will be multiple choice and afternoon will be essay fomat. It is not set yet but he thinks that people will be able to pass one part and fail the other and not have to take the part they passed the next time, but that is not for sure. But the bad news is if you have already passed the SE I and have not passed the SE II (or viseversa), in 2010 the slate will be cleaned and you will have to take the full 16 hour test over again and again pass both days. So if you have passed one of the tests, better get started on studying for the other, otherwise you will have to take the full exam agian. Hope this information helps.

2010 and wipe the slate clean? I don't know about that. If that is the case there has to be some sort of announcement soon for the people scheduled to take the SEI in April 2009 and those who have recently taken the SEI.

kevo_55 · Nov 24, 2008

^^ I'm not 100% sure they would do that myself either. But.... I still wouldn't want to be in that position as well.

:smileyballs:

cedent · Nov 25, 2008

I received this response from NCEES this morning. The only conflicting info from that already posted is the date.

I received your fax asking about the future changes to the Structural I and II Exams. Hopefully I will be to address all of your concerns.

Approximately every 8 years we at NCEES conduct a Professional Activities and Knowledge Study (PAKS). Subject matter experts in all areas of Structural Engineering from all areas around the nation gather and develop a survey instrument, which is then sent to thousands of registered engineers in that field of study. This survey is divided into five section: Tasks, Knowledge Areas, Skills, Recommendation for Test Content, and Background Information. The results of this survey define the contents of the Structural Engineering license examinations. From this survey, a specification is developed, and the exams must follow the specification. We are currently conducting this survey, and the results will be used to establish new specifications starting with the 2011 exam.

The format of the exam will also be changing. While the format has not been firmly established, it is proposed to be one 16-hour exam, taken in two 8-hr increments on consecutive days. The morning portions of each exam are proposed to be 40 multiple choice questions, with the afternoon portions being 2 essay questions. One of the days will be lateral loads, with the other day being vertical loads. Also, it is being discussed as to whether an examinee must pass all portions of the exam at the same time, or if portions passed can be carried over to subsequent exams.

Again, all of this is being discussed, and a final determination will not be made until early next year.

Please let me know if you have any more questions or concerns.

G-

cedent · Nov 25, 2008

Senerio 1: An engineer is licensed as a professional engineer in State A by taking an 8 hour test (specifically the SE I exam). Subsequently NCEES no longer offers an 8 hour test. The test is replaced by a 16 hour test... thereby making the states' requirement for an 8 hour test out-dated. The Engineer then applies for Comity in State B. We will assume that State B was previously an 'SE I only' State.

My question is this: Will that engineer then be required to take and pass the 16 hour test before receiving licensure by comity in State B? (My guess is yes.)

Senerio 2: An engineer is licensed as a professional engineer in State A by taking two 8 hour tests (specifically the SE I & II exams). Subsequently NCEES no longer offers two 8 hour tests. The test is replaced by a single 16 hour test... thereby making the states' requirements out-dated. The Engineer then applies for Comity in State B.

My question is this: Will that engineer then be required to take and pass the new 16 hour test before receiving licensure by comity in State B? (Judging by what has happened in the past 10 years with structural licensure, my guess is also yes.)

So why take the SE II now?

kevo_55 · Nov 25, 2008

Thanks for the info cedent!

My opinion is to simpy take the SE II exam before you must take the 16 hour SE exam. It is pretty evident that one needs 16 hours of SE exams in order to be an SE these days. I have no problem with this. If anything, I would think that the SE licensure is an "add on" to the civil license as what is done in the western zone states. In your senerio 2, the engineer would still be ok. Typical licensure laws only look at the total number of hours for the exams taken. One engineer at my company took the 8 hour "SE" exam maybe 20 years ago. It was basically like the SE II exam of today. In order for him to get his IL SE license, he had to go back and take the structural I exam.

In order to be be in demand in the future, I would keep ahead of the curve and complete your 16 hours of SE exams.

My :2cents:

ARLORD · Nov 25, 2008

In my humble opinion, I think it is simple for those who have passed 16 hours of structural exams. They should be grandfathered in the future. I think the SEI & SE II will equal the new 16 hour SE Exam.

I think it gets tricky in the transition from the two test format to the one test-two day format. How do you transition those who have passed STR I and have yet to pass STR II. There has to be a grace period. Maybe they will have a two year or so grace period where they offer both the STR I, STR II and the new SE exam.

Otherwise, they would have to stop offering the STR I exam 6 months or a year prior to the format change. Unless they begin to offer both exams in a two day session up to the format change.

I know architects, and I hate to refer to them as an example, but they are in the process of a major testing change. The used to require a 9 mini-test system. Where they take an individual mini-test on a computer at a testing site lasting about 2 hours. At the testing site at any given time any of the 9 mini-exams can be given. Anyway they have change to a 7 mini-test format. They currently offer both exam formats for a limited grace period. I think it is a 5 year grace period.

Bigwolf · Nov 25, 2008

ARLORD said:
In my humble opinion, I think it is simple for those who have passed 16 hours of structural exams. They should be grandfathered in the future. I think the SEI & SE II will equal the new 16 hour SE Exam.
I think it gets tricky in the transition from the two test format to the one test-two day format. How do you transition those who have passed STR I and have yet to pass STR II. There has to be a grace period. Maybe they will have a two year or so grace period where they offer both the STR I, STR II and the new SE exam.

Otherwise, they would have to stop offering the STR I exam 6 months or a year prior to the format change. Unless they begin to offer both exams in a two day session up to the format change.

I know architects, and I hate to refer to them as an example, but they are in the process of a major testing change. The used to require a 9 mini-test system. Where they take an individual mini-test on a computer at a testing site lasting about 2 hours. At the testing site at any given time any of the 9 mini-exams can be given. Anyway they have change to a 7 mini-test format. They currently offer both exam formats for a limited grace period. I think it is a 5 year grace period.

Just an FYI--being married to an architect.....the grace period for the architects was as follows:

If they had passed at least 1 exam by this past May, then they would have a 1 year grace period to finish the remaining exams on the old format. Meanwhile, if they hadn't passed any exam by this past May, then they had no grace period and started on the new format right away.

The 5 year window that you are referring to is the amount of time they had to complete all exams. If they had any pass score that was older than 5 years, those results would be invalidated and they would have to retake that exam.

I would assume that NCEES would have some sort of overlapping system, much as the architecture licensing process has.....but at the same time, the engineering exams are only offered twice a year, so I'm not sure how they would incorporate the grace period.

buening · Dec 19, 2008

I wonder if the new "format" will be broken into a 16hr bridge exam or a 16hr building exam? In my opinion, someone who does nothing but 100% bridges from day one is at a disadvantage with the SE I. The majority of my studies for the SE I was geared toward the building sections, which I probably won't ever need in my job. I took the SE I and II this past October, and I stressed more about the SE I building stuff than anything. If it were a bridge only exam, I would have been able to focus more on the bridges......which would benefit both the SE I exam as well as the SE II exam.

ARLORD · Jan 9, 2009

See below for the latest on the new Structural Exam(s) format:

The committee in charge of the new specification will be meeting in January to review the results of the recently completed Professional Activities and Knowledge survey and based on those results will develop the examination specification. We will release further information in the spring regarding the specification and how the exam will be administered. The impact, if any, on states that have a STRIII exam has not yet been evaluated. The Council approved the change in the structural exam to be effective starting with the spring 2011 exam administration.

Regards,

Tim Miller, P.E.

NCEES - Director of Exam Services

Mcgill · Jan 9, 2009

PE vs SE after name :

If a person passed SE II, can he writes S.E. after his name irrespective of state ? My assumption is the state should have structural engieering title act rules enfrorced.

that means a person in AZ can write SE and one in KC can't write?

I would appreciate if some one can confirm.

Structural II Exam/ Licensure

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