NCEES Credential Evaluation Issues: Foreign Grad

Hi All,

NEED YOUR ADVISE.

My graduate degree is in Architecture from Indian Institute of Technology and intend to apply for EIT exam (other disciplines). Few weeks back I send all the credential evaluation information to NCEES (transcripts, course description etc) of my Architecture program. The evaluation report came up with certain deficiencies such as NO BASIC MATH OR SCIENCE COURSES such as Calculus I and II, Physics etc.

Basic maths and science are not taught at Grad level in India. We are taught those course in 11th and 12th grade (senior secondary education). Only applied physics/maths (like HVAC, electricty, soil mechanics, surveying, numerical methods, operations research etc.) are taught at Grad level.

To my dismay, my credential evaluator is not ready to consider my high school credentials. I need to explain to him that basic sciences are not taught in grad school.

Has anyone experienced a similar situation?? If so, how did you explain your evaluator? PLEASE ADVISE.

I am eager to give my EIT exam and love the subjects. If anyone can help me in anyway possible, please do!!!!

aka251 said:

Hi All,

NEED YOUR ADVISE.

My graduate degree is in Architecture from Indian Institute of Technology and intend to apply for EIT exam (other disciplines). Few weeks back I send all the credential evaluation information to NCEES (transcripts, course description etc) of my Architecture program. The evaluation report came up with certain deficiencies such as NO BASIC MATH OR SCIENCE COURSES such as Calculus I and II, Physics etc.

Basic maths and science are not taught at Grad level in India. We are taught those course in 11th and 12th grade (senior secondary education). Only applied physics/maths (like HVAC, electricty, soil mechanics, surveying, numerical methods, operations research etc.) are taught at Grad level.

To my dismay, my credential evaluator is not ready to consider my high school credentials. I need to explain to him that basic sciences are not taught in grad school.

Has anyone experienced a similar situation?? If so, how did you explain your evaluator? PLEASE ADVISE.

I am eager to give my EIT exam and love the subjects. If anyone can help me in anyway possible, please do!!!!

Click to expand...

aka,

What are you talking here, when you say "Graduate", that is Masters Degree level, when you say grade 11 and 12 those are in Senior High, clarify these things, General Engineering in FE Exam is supposed to be taken in Bachelors level and not in High School

Thanks for asking. I guess its a matter of semantics. "Graduate" in India means bachelors level.

I completed basic sciences (maths, physics, chemistry) in grade 11 and 12 of high school. After that, I completed bachelors in architecture (which is a five year course) and masters in finance (two year course).

I'd like to give FE exam here.

many people take calculus and physics in high school then they have to take them again at an undergraduate level in order to get their BS. They will not look at the high school level courses unless they were college classes.

and there is more than basics needed for BS here. for example Calc I, II, differential equations, linear algebra...all required

What do you mean by college classes?

In India, I don't have an option to take Physics, Chemistry or Maths courses again at bachelors level. All the courses taught at bachelors have basics sciences (physics, calculus etc.) as pre-requisite.

Begining with the new NCEES Engineering Curriculum Standard (Somehwere Early 2011 I believe), students from the British-based and European High School systems like A-levels, IB and German Arbitur etc get credit for some of the High school Basic Science standardized examinations taken right after High school as part of the respective countries' HS graduation/College entrance requirements. There is a video at the NCEES evaluation webpage by Marie Nebesky that confirms this.

However, don't expect your evaluator to just give you credit for those badly needed courses (PHY & CHEM I/II, CALCULUS I/II etc). You need to provide them with all the exams results (and certificates) directly from the issuing country/international Exams board (Cambridge, IB, WAEC, etc). NCEES will verify them directly with the issuing Exams board, compare the readily available syllabuses for these courses and give you credit accordignly just like the US Advanced Placement Exams. Nonetheless, some countries do not have this rigorous standardized extra exam taken after High School although the educational curriculum maybe lifted directly from the British educational model.

A typical example is the A-levels exams where there is a rigorous theory part and as well as a rigorous hands-on practical part for the CHEM, PHY, BIO classes etc. These exams also mirror the content of the first year US college level counterparts and in most cases even go further than your typical AP exams. Thus most colleges fashioned after the British and European systems do not offer these courses again as part of the college undergrad education. Everybody takes it at the HS school level and it's standardized. It does not show up on your college transcripts because it's a pre-requisite for HS graduation and college entrance. Moreover, you pretty much select your college major right in your HS days (Science, Arts, Business, Fine Arts etc).

Therefore, just to be fair to international graduates from educational systems where most of the first year US college basic science and math classes are rather part of the HS level (where student take standardized rigorous international/national at the end of the 12 year and sometimes 13 year HS education) NCEES will give you credit so far as you furnish them the legitimate and easily verifiable information.

I can vouch for this because I have had an evaluation done recently by NCEES and I got credit for my Advanced Level exams taken after my last term/semester in HS eduaction and I did not go to HS in the US.

That's my 2 cents.

Instead of offering a more difficult high school level course they will let high school students (11th and 12th) take classes at a local college. But is it clearly set up as a college level class.

snickerd3

Yes they are taught in grade 11 and 12 of High School. Courses include: Calculus 1, 2, 3, Linear algebra, Probability, Quantum physics, Statics, Inorganic, Organic, Physical chemistry, Complex numbers, differential equations, trigonometry, electricity, magnetism etc.

Snickerd3

After HS education, we give a national level exam. After passing that, we get 'Senior Secondary Certificate' which is certified by the central board of secondary education of India.

take a look into what who knows posted. IF they don't accept that, I don't see any other recourse for you other than to take the classes at a college here.

If you're an architect shouldn't you be looking at the ARE exam instead? Seems like you should be going for an RA title instead of a PE, just thinking your credentials might be more accepted under their program, but I don't know. Just speculating.

I have worked in the building energy and performance monitoring field for quite some time. My work involves integrating various building systems, generating and analyzing performance metrics, suggesting conservation measures or retrofits etc. Given my professional background and career interests, I believe EIT is more apt.

Your Degree is Architecture, theoretically, you dont qualify for FE, because Engineering has so many courses in Mathematics, while Architexture doesnt go through in depth Math like Diffrential Equations, Advance Math, Prob Stats etc, I think you dont have Chemistry, Elect and Mag, Eng Economics etc. If Im going to evaluate your case, go back to Engineering school and youll see the difference, even in the Civil Engineering PM, you cant handle in depth Theory of structures, Geotechnical Engineering, Transportation Engineering etc. Im sorry to say this.

I agree with gte

aka,

you know, why, because I have both Architecture and Civil Engineering degrees background plus Masters in Engineering degree. I know its tough to accept it but, you cant just jump around to Engineering from Architecture.

I understand your reasoning. However, Its not like the architectural programs in US.

To clarify, we study subjects like structural theory, structural design, refrigeration, hydraulics, geomatics, soil mechanics, electrical design, advanced maths (like operations research, mathematical modelling) etc.

Also, I have checked with state-EIT and they are okay with Architectural background. In fact, I would encourage Architectural students to apply.

Its important to note that in India: Irrespective of whether we study Architecture or Civil Engineering, we are NOT taught basic maths/sciences. We are taught those subjects in High School. Please understand this.

We understand what you are saying and we are saying we get those classes essentially twice...once in high school and again in college. You need to consider thinking about it from a different perspective...instead of repeating i took those in high school... start demonstrating to the reviewer that the courses you took were in fact equivalent to what the requirements are. which will require a lot of work to accomplish i;d wager.

Thanks for your suggestion "snickerd3" and "who knows"

I am sure there would be other members in the forum who have/had faced situation similar to mine. How did you get through? I would like to hear that.

The reason being; my evaluator seems completely averse to accepting HS level certifications. I can take this issue to high ups but before that I would like to know; how did you handle this?

I am pretty sure US system would have regulatory provisions to handle this.

I have a similar experience but it is regarding transferring my education credits from a university in the Philippines to a university here in the United States. I was one year away from graduating and getting my BS in Civil Engineering in the Philippines when we moved here to the United States. When I decided to enroll in Civil Engineering, I had my subjects evaluated and I was only able to save maybe one semester; I had to enroll in at least 18 credit hours every semester to be able to finish in three years.



The university did not consider my classes because even though the classes have the same name and description, the topics covered are different. I was only required to take two calculus classes in the Philippines but each class have 4 credit hours; here, I had to take four calculus classes; same with Chemistry, Physics, and other subjects in which I have to repeat them.



From experience and what people have told me, Architects and Civil Engineering are two different things thats why they don't get along that much. Architectural Engineering would be in between.



You may have taken Calculus, Physics, and other subjects in high school but those are general subjects and not geared towards engineering. You mentioned that you went to Indian Institute of Technology and I checked the website for Delhi and following is part of the curriculum, which includes Math subjects:



Courses@Civil Engineering

UNDERGRADUATE CORE(UC)


































Physical Chemistry: Concepts and Applications














Chemistry Laboratory














Mathematics - I














Mathematics - II














Fields and Waves














Physics Laboratory














TOTAL BS Core