Computer Depth

wilheldp_PE · Apr 15, 2008

Did anybody else take the Computer Depth of the EE exam on Friday? I would venture a guess that I was the only person out of about 120 people at my site that took it. I know of one other person in Indianapolis (college buddy) that took it. I wonder what a low number of testees does to the cut score of an exam. If they only have a sample size of 50-100 nationwide, do they exclude problems based on those results?

Anyway, if there are any aspiring CompEs that plan on getting their PE, I will answer general questions about it here. I'll start with my list of references:

Computer Organization and Design, Patterson and Hennessy

Upgrading and Repairing PCs, 13th Edition, Scott Mueller

Teach Yourself Networking in 24 Hours, 3rd Edition, Habraken and Hayden

Dictionary of Computer and Internet Terms, 9th Edition, Barron's

Those are the only refs that I had specifically for the Computer portion. I also used the EERM and Electronic Circuit Analysis and Design, Neamen on both sections. I really wish I had gotten a basic Software Engineering book because there were a whole lot of debugging/software planning questions that I wasn't expecting. I got the networking book because the sample exams had a lot of IEEE networking standards questions...and I did use it a fair amount on the real test. The Dictionary was invaluable due to several definition-type questions. Also, some of the history of computing and random standards required for the test showed up the Mueller book.

Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP · Apr 15, 2008

wilheldp,

KUDOS! :appl:

Thanks for posting this info. I'm sure you will be helping some poor distressed soul since, as you know, there weren't many posts refering to the Computer Depth.

Are there any references you wish you had brought or areas you wish you spent more time on?

I'm rooting for ya. Good luck and hang in there for the wait.....

(now if we can get more feedback on the ECC Depth...)

wilheldp_PE · Apr 15, 2008

Techie_Junkie PE said:
wilheldp,
KUDOS! :appl:

Thanks for posting this info. I'm sure you will be helping some poor distressed soul since, as you know, there weren't many posts refering to the Computer Depth.

Are there any references you wish you had brought or areas you wish you spent more time on?

I'm rooting for ya. Good luck and hang in there for the wait.....

(now if we can get more feedback on the ECC Depth...)

Yeah, I figured it would help since there didn't seem to be a big knowledge base for Computer Engineers here...not that we take the PE very often anyway. You guys helped me a ton on my Electrical Breadth issues, so I thought I would give back to the forum a little.

Like I said, I wish I had some basic reference on Software Engineering. I don't have a book to recommend since I have never taken a class on that subject. However, if I failed this time and end up taking it again, I will definitely dig one up and post a review of it.

adr · Apr 15, 2008

Good luck wilheldp!

I'm sure there are lots of good Software Engineering books out there. I used Software Engineering by Stephen Schach (was the Software Engineering course textbook at LSU). It had more than enough information for both the sample NCEES questions (#531, #535) and the real exam.

MiPatLwr · Apr 16, 2008

adr said:
Good luck wilheldp!
I'm sure there are lots of good Software Engineering books out there. I used Software Engineering by Stephen Schach (was the Software Engineering course textbook at LSU). It had more than enough information for both the sample NCEES questions (#531, #535) and the real exam.

I took the Computer Depth of the EE Exam. I think that I am okay. However, I am a little concerned because I relied primarily upon common sense, logic, intuition and experience from many years ago (instead of a hardcopy reference) for many of the questions in the software area. Just in case, I need a line on a good software engineering reference. According to NCEES, 35% of the Computer Depth exam pertains to software. I felt a little uneasy going into the exam without a specific software reference. Amazon lists many software engineering books by Schach.

What was the specific title and edition of the Schach book?

Does that book cover all of the topics listed by NCEES and its detailed listing of topics covered by the Computer Depth exam? If not, which topics are not covered?

I took a review course. At a common meeting for all disciplines it was recommended that we find out who has a hand in the test preparation and look to that source for study material. In my Amazon search I noticed that IEEE also publishes a software engineering book. If IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth question preparation, I would lean to that book rather than the Schach book if I were to buy only one.

Does anyone know if IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth test preparation?

Does anyone have any opinions as to how well the IEEE software engineering book covers the NCEES detailed listing of topics for the Computer Depth exam?

wilheldp_PE · Apr 16, 2008

I knew that there were going to be software problems, but I was expecting more code snippets and machine/assembly language type questions. What I got was a bunch of questions related to OOP and software structure/planning. That threw me for a loop. I think I got a lot of them just by remembering programming classes from school, and some of them were common sense among CompEs, but others would have been made much easier with just a simple Software Engineering reference. As to which reference would cover the most topics, I can't be sure. In fact, if I went and looked at a reference today and got one that covered all of the topics that I remember from the exam, there is no guarantee that it would cover topics on the October exam. As I said earlier, I will post if/when I need to retake the test and buy some more reference material.

adr · Apr 16, 2008

MiPatLwr said:
What was the specific title and edition of the Schach book?
Does that book cover all of the topics listed by NCEES and its detailed listing of topics covered by the Computer Depth exam? If not, which topics are not covered?

Does anyone know if IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth test preparation?

Looks like IEEE is involved:

http://www.ieeeusa.org/volunteers/committees/lrc/default.asp

I have “Classical and object oriented software engineering with UML & Java” by Schach, 4th edition. This book covers topics B1, B2, B3, and B12.

These are the references I used for software:

A. System software

1. Operating systems (OS book)

2. Real time operating systems (OS book)

3. Computer security (OS book, networks book)

4. Drivers (OS book)

B. Development/applications

1. Software lifecycle (Software Engineering book)

2. Software design methods (Software Engineering book)

3. Software documentation (Software Engineering book)

4. Software fault tolerance

http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/des_s99/sw_fault_tolerance/

5. Performance enhancement (Hmmm...what were they thinking?)

6. Data structures (Data structures book)

7. Algorithms (Data structures book)

8. Complexity (Data structures book)

9. Database schemas (Database book)

10. Program control structures

11. Programming language characteristics

12. Development tools (Software Engineering book)

OS book: Schaum’s or equivalent should be fine. I had Operating system concepts by Silberschatz et al.

Networks book: I had Computer networks by Peterson & Davie, 3rd edition. This book was helpful. There was a really tough question on networks when I took it and Schaum’s didn’t have the information that was required.

Data structures book: Schaum’s or equivalent should be fine. I had Data Structures by Ellis Horowitz

Database book: I took Database systems by CJ Date. Schaum’s prolly enough.

mbparksPE · Apr 23, 2008

MiPatLwr said:
I took the Computer Depth of the EE Exam. I think that I am okay. However, I am a little concerned because I relied primarily upon common sense, logic, intuition and experience from many years ago (instead of a hardcopy reference) for many of the questions in the software area. Just in case, I need a line on a good software engineering reference. According to NCEES, 35% of the Computer Depth exam pertains to software. I felt a little uneasy going into the exam without a specific software reference. Amazon lists many software engineering books by Schach.
What was the specific title and edition of the Schach book?

Does that book cover all of the topics listed by NCEES and its detailed listing of topics covered by the Computer Depth exam? If not, which topics are not covered?

I took a review course. At a common meeting for all disciplines it was recommended that we find out who has a hand in the test preparation and look to that source for study material. In my Amazon search I noticed that IEEE also publishes a software engineering book. If IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth question preparation, I would lean to that book rather than the Schach book if I were to buy only one.

Does anyone know if IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth test preparation?

Does anyone have any opinions as to how well the IEEE software engineering book covers the NCEES detailed listing of topics for the Computer Depth exam?

Another Computer Engineering PE Wannabe here. I agree MiPatLwr, I feel okay. About as good as I did when I came out of the EIT. I do feel the morning was VERY light on computer related topics. Oh well. The afternoon I felt was fair, wish I had a few more reference books, and more recent books too! Well, the wait is upon us. Best wishes to all my brother (and sister?) CompE PE Wannabes!

mbparksPE · Apr 23, 2008

MiPatLwr said:
I took the Computer Depth of the EE Exam. I think that I am okay. However, I am a little concerned because I relied primarily upon common sense, logic, intuition and experience from many years ago (instead of a hardcopy reference) for many of the questions in the software area. Just in case, I need a line on a good software engineering reference. According to NCEES, 35% of the Computer Depth exam pertains to software. I felt a little uneasy going into the exam without a specific software reference. Amazon lists many software engineering books by Schach.
What was the specific title and edition of the Schach book?

Does that book cover all of the topics listed by NCEES and its detailed listing of topics covered by the Computer Depth exam? If not, which topics are not covered?

I took a review course. At a common meeting for all disciplines it was recommended that we find out who has a hand in the test preparation and look to that source for study material. In my Amazon search I noticed that IEEE also publishes a software engineering book. If IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth question preparation, I would lean to that book rather than the Schach book if I were to buy only one.

Does anyone know if IEEE is involved in the Computer Depth test preparation?

Does anyone have any opinions as to how well the IEEE software engineering book covers the NCEES detailed listing of topics for the Computer Depth exam?

Another Computer Engineering PE Wannabe here. I agree MiPatLwr, I feel okay. About as good as I did when I came out of the EIT. I do feel the morning was VERY light on computer related topics. Oh well. The afternoon I felt was fair, wish I had a few more reference books, and more recent books too! Well, the wait is upon us. Best wishes to all my brother (and sister?) CompE PE Wannabes!

mbparksPE · Apr 24, 2008

Anybody want to venture a guess at the cut score for the Computer Engineering EE exam? I am guessing 47 to 52. Hoping it is closer to 47. Rumors abound in my office and circle of friends. Power was rumored to be at 47. I figure the CompEs have less of a chance on the morning session so we should be around 47 too. Thoughts?

wilheldp_PE · Apr 24, 2008

mbparks2 said:
Anybody want to venture a guess at the cut score for the Computer Engineering EE exam? I am guessing 47 to 52. Hoping it is closer to 47. Rumors abound in my office and circle of friends. Power was rumored to be at 47. I figure the CompEs have less of a chance on the morning session so we should be around 47 too. Thoughts?

I don't even want to speculate. It's got to be tough to set a cut score for this exam because it probably has the lowest sample size out of all the "mainstream" exams (EE, ME, CE, ChE). I never thought going into the test that I would feel better about the AM exam than I did about the PM. In all my practice, I always felt better about the Computer section than the general...not so on the actual exam.

benbo · Apr 24, 2008

mbparks2 said:
Anybody want to venture a guess at the cut score for the Computer Engineering EE exam? I am guessing 47 to 52. Hoping it is closer to 47. Rumors abound in my office and circle of friends. Power was rumored to be at 47. I figure the CompEs have less of a chance on the morning session so we should be around 47 too. Thoughts?

I have no idea what the cut score will be on any exam, but 47 is less than 60%. Judging by a lot of the failing diagnostics people have posted on this site, I think it is unlikely to have a cut score under 60%. I said unlikely, not impossible.

But remember, you probably got more correct than you think.

rcurras · Apr 24, 2008

mbparks2 said:
Anybody want to venture a guess at the cut score for the Computer Engineering EE exam? I am guessing 47 to 52. Hoping it is closer to 47. Rumors abound in my office and circle of friends. Power was rumored to be at 47. I figure the CompEs have less of a chance on the morning session so we should be around 47 too. Thoughts?

Regarding Power, there is a guy in this forum, who posted his/her failure results, based on the document sent to him/her by the board: he/she got a 50/80 (50 questions good out of 80).

I think the only way to be “safe”, is to think: I made 56/80 as a minimum.

Have anyone heard about who has failed with 56 good answers over 80 questions? I wish for a lower “cut score”, but you never know (or will know).

Thanks.

RC.

wilheldp_PE · Apr 24, 2008

I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that a cut score could be over 70% raw if the test was exceptionally easy. It's only fair since they reduce the raw score required to pass when the test is exceptionally hard. I certainly don't foresee this happening based on the comments so far from all of the test disciplines.

mbparksPE · Apr 24, 2008

wilheldp said:
I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that a cut score could be over 70% raw if the test was exceptionally easy. It's only fair since they reduce the raw score required to pass when the test is exceptionally hard. I certainly don't foresee this happening based on the comments so far from all of the test disciplines.

Man, the cut score for the CompE exam better not be >56! We get the shaft on the morning exam, imho. Oh well, at least we can all agonize together as we wait. The good news is there is ONLY about 56 to 67 days to go by my best guess for Maryland.

Then we'll all be doing :multiplespotting:

rcurras · Apr 25, 2008

mbparks2 said:
Man, the cut score for the CompE exam better not be >56! We get the shaft on the morning exam, imho. Oh well, at least we can all agonize together as we wait. The good news is there is ONLY about 56 to 67 days to go by my best guess for Maryland.
Then we'll all be doing :multiplespotting:

What I do not understand is how come a “cut score” would be higher than 56 questions right out of 80? Is not the minimum passing score (without “normalization/rectification/ or whatever”) 70% (again 56/80 = 70%)?

Thanks.

RC.

benbo · Apr 25, 2008

rcurras said:
What I do not understand is how come a “cut score” would be higher than 56 questions right out of 80? Is not the minimum passing score (without “normalization/rectification/ or whatever”) 70% (again 56/80 = 70%)?
Thanks.

RC.

The 70 score has nothing to do with percent. It is just a number they place on the passing score. For different exams it means different percentages. Nobody is gong to be able to tell you the cut score.

But let me ask you a question -

Do you know exactly what percentage you got correct on the exam you just took? I didn't when I took it. And if you don't know this what good would it do you to know the exact cut score?

Probably you know a range that you might have gotten correct. Maybe 50% to 80% or something like that. Maybe you know it a little better. But I doubt you can say "I got a 69% correct."

I'd look at it this way -

If you're sure you got 70% or better, I wouldn't pop a cork, but you can be pretty confident.

If you got under 55% you need a miracle. They probably won't pass someone who only get's half the problems. On the EIT maybe, probably not on the PE.

Between 55% and 70% - who knows? You just need a little luck.

rcurras · Apr 25, 2008

benbo said:
The 70 score has nothing to do with percent. It is just a number they place on the passing score. For different exams it means different percentages. Nobody is gong to be able to tell you the cut score.
But let me ask you a question -

Do you know exactly what percentage you got correct on the exam you just took? I didn't when I took it. And if you don't know this what good would it do you to know the exact cut score?

Probably you know a range that you might have gotten correct. Maybe 50% to 80% or something like that. Maybe you know it a little better. But I doubt you can say "I got a 69% correct."

I'd look at it this way -

If you're sure you got 70% or better, I wouldn't pop a cork, but you can be pretty confident.

If you got under 55% you need a miracle. They probably won't pass someone who only get's half the problems. On the EIT maybe, probably not on the PE.

Between 55% and 70% - who knows? You just need a little luck.

I completely agree with your statements. As a fact, based on my last time failure report, I got 55.5% and did not pass.

What I am trying to represent is that, if the passing grade is 70%, then the real and absolute minimum performance would be answering 56 questions out of 80 in order to pass and not to worry about a possible failure. Again, unless you felt pretty confident about your performance (which is not the sample majority), you have no idea how many questions you got right (like you well stated).

Thanks.

RC.

benbo · Apr 25, 2008

rcurras said:
I completely agree with your statements. As a fact, based on my last time failure report, I got 55.5% and did not pass.
What I am trying to represent is that, if the passing grade is 70%, then the real and absolute minimum performance would be answering 56 questions out of 80 in order to pass and not to worry about a possible failure. Again, unless you felt pretty confident about your performance (which is not the sample majority), you have no idea how many questions you got right (like you well stated).

Thanks.

RC.

Of course IF the passing grade is 70% then you must answer 56 questions correctly. But that is not always true. It varies, and nobody knows the actual passing percent for any given exam. All you know is that for your last exam it was higher than 55.5% (or around 45 questions correct).

Capt Worley PE · Apr 25, 2008

I have a feeling the 70% is a convention in education, of sorts. All throughout my schooling, first grade through college, 70% was a pass (barely), and 69% was a fail.

That being said, I don't know if we're assuming a 70% based on our past experience, or NCEES adopted 70% because it is a 'tradition' in education.

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