I recently saw an advertisement for a "STEAM" program. Come to find out that the "A" stood for "Arts". Now being that we are all of the "STEM" side of this, I'm curious about everyone's opinion on this. I have been engaged in a day-long debate on the topic where I have repeatedly stated that Arts has no business being involved in a STEM program. Arts are abstract and STEM is based on factual proofs. So, what say you?
STEM vs STEAM
- Thread starter NJmike PE
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Yeah, that Da Vinci guy was a crock of shit.
Edited to include my real opinion: the Technology and Engineering components of STEM could do without the arts. But Science and Mathematics require creative thinking and you simply won't be a creative thinker unless you have an appreciation for the arts. Does it bother you less to consider that the "A" only comprises 20% of the letters in STEAM?
Edited to include my real opinion: the Technology and Engineering components of STEM could do without the arts. But Science and Mathematics require creative thinking and you simply won't be a creative thinker unless you have an appreciation for the arts. Does it bother you less to consider that the "A" only comprises 20% of the letters in STEAM?
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I wasn't going to comment on your facebook in public, but I was kind of peeved the first time I heard about STEAM too. The whole idea of an emphasis on STEM came from the thought that there aren't enough students pursuing STEM careers. From that perspective, I don't think there's any shortage of arts students around.
But the more I think about it, introducing the arts to STEM may not be a bad thing. If the reason more students aren't pursuing STEM is because it's seen as too rigid and uncreative, perhaps adding a dose of the arts will help.
But the more I think about it, introducing the arts to STEM may not be a bad thing. If the reason more students aren't pursuing STEM is because it's seen as too rigid and uncreative, perhaps adding a dose of the arts will help.
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I appreciate that perspective and if that is the reason for it then I will stand corrected. However, from the perspective of most of the responses, it has nothing to do with that. On the contrary it it appears that it's due to the overwhelming amount of funding that has gone into the STEM program while others have suffered. So it would appear that it is an attempt to equate the Arts to STEM for funding purposes.
Road Guy
Well-known member
my older two kids are in the STEM program for our school district but what I have seen its really just a way to prep kids for college, they grind out a shit load of papers over stupid topics (they let the kids decide what they write the papers on- but they grade them on the college level), they do group projects to get you ready for that fun part of college and make you do a 40 hour job shadow each year.
Get this my older son last year, as his job shadow they let him shadow the Music Director at Colorado State University. Which was cool, but I had to ask the teacher when I saw him about why he approved a music related job shadow? He only answered that they don't turn down many student request & as it turned out the job shadow made my kid realize he had no interest in music as a career (but as something to do for fun in life). So that was a defin "win win"
Most any major school district will also have a program for "the arts" and you can bet your ass they wont be doing much science in that class.. But recently I was at a Rock Tribute band at the Hard Rock (VEGAS) and as they described each band (started from 70's and went to the early 90's) you would be surprised how many of these major bands had their origins at MIT and other science related college degrees. I have seen enough of my older kids band friends who have a major interest in music are also performing at a very high level in the math programs, and also making 700's on the SAT math section (800 is the max) so there is some connection with science math and music IMO.
Now If you want to go paint a necked lady holding fruit then get the F out of our stem program with that shizzle..
Get this my older son last year, as his job shadow they let him shadow the Music Director at Colorado State University. Which was cool, but I had to ask the teacher when I saw him about why he approved a music related job shadow? He only answered that they don't turn down many student request & as it turned out the job shadow made my kid realize he had no interest in music as a career (but as something to do for fun in life). So that was a defin "win win"
Most any major school district will also have a program for "the arts" and you can bet your ass they wont be doing much science in that class.. But recently I was at a Rock Tribute band at the Hard Rock (VEGAS) and as they described each band (started from 70's and went to the early 90's) you would be surprised how many of these major bands had their origins at MIT and other science related college degrees. I have seen enough of my older kids band friends who have a major interest in music are also performing at a very high level in the math programs, and also making 700's on the SAT math section (800 is the max) so there is some connection with science math and music IMO.
Now If you want to go paint a necked lady holding fruit then get the F out of our stem program with that shizzle..
csb
Well-known member
I was very involved in the arts in high school and now that group of kids I hung out with are engineers, lawyers, scientists..."real" professions. I'd hazard that nurturing our creative side helped develop our problem solving skills. Couple that with music kids tend to also be pretty decent at math and I don't think it's that far off to include the A.
Ken PE 3.1
It's wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man
Wasn't the whole push for 'stem' thing to try and convince kids to think of jobs outside of art history and learning Sanskrit?
I personally think it is all a crock of Dookie. Plenty of kids want the arts path, leave the stem to us nerds.
I personally think it is all a crock of Dookie. Plenty of kids want the arts path, leave the stem to us nerds.
Dexman PE PMP
Internationally PMP'n his PE-ness
If the focus is on STEM, then I don't mind adding arts to supplement it. Band is part of the "arts" and most of us enginerds were in band (I played the trumpet for 6 years and both of my kids are learning musical instruments). Being involved with music (and being able to read sheet music) is actually proven to aid the ability to learn advanced math.
"Art" is more than fingerpainting and drawing, it really does bolster creative thinking.
"Art" is more than fingerpainting and drawing, it really does bolster creative thinking.
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matt267 PE
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I think it's all stupid. A good education will include STEM, arts, literature, and the social sciences. In other words, a traditional high school education (as well as a Bachelor's degree). Adding the A to STEM just dilutes the whole emphasis on STEM, which I also don't understand (what, high school is no longer adequate preparation for engineering school???). I agree that the arts is a beneficial influence and I was also big into music and the graphical arts, and these were key to my successes. But a good program will include all of that, anyway!
I agree with both sides of this. The arts did help me learn to think of creative solutions to things. But I think it's really valuable to have outlets for stem students to really explore the fields with more opportunities for lab type projects and learning. Having worked on a steam building design, I think the reason for adding the a was likely initially because of the requirements of labs and supplies and machines (kiln, 3d printer, etc) that kind of made the uses of the spaces and their requirements kind of make sense to go together. And I think it could be valuable to team up say a robotics lab and an art lab to help design and produce parts that might be needed or whatever. So, not having kids I guess it doesn't really matter directly to me, but I can see a benefit to either side. Lol
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Dexman PE PMP
Internationally PMP'n his PE-ness
Sounds like @NJmike PE needs a way to blow off some steam. If only he had some sort of stress-relieving artistic outlet from the stress of being an engineer...
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engineergurl
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I thought STEM was started to prevent isolation between the 4 groups mentioned in education then spun into a buzz word for immigration and closing racial gaps. I'm all for the Arts but either integrate the whole education system but don't group bunches together at all.
With that said... all these "projects" that the kids have to do, entail some art. We just did a "multipli-city" poster on which the kid had to use windows, clouds and birds and stuff as "arrays" to show math problems. While we followed the example, a lot of kids got much more creative with it though.
With that said... all these "projects" that the kids have to do, entail some art. We just did a "multipli-city" poster on which the kid had to use windows, clouds and birds and stuff as "arrays" to show math problems. While we followed the example, a lot of kids got much more creative with it though.
SNAPE/SMOTT PE
Wait, what?
Just my 2cents: I grew up with a very creative/artistic mother. We did many “artsy” things together, including a gingerbread house contest every year. Together we had come up with our own recipe for what we called construction gingerbread. We made templates out of cardboard for our designs, to fit everything before it was made from the real stuff. We tweaked icing recipes to hold (glue) everything together, and hard candy recipes to make windows out of. Everything was made of edible (even if not tasty) materials. We were very good (not that I’m trying to brag), and every year we placed, often winning first.
Now, this is seen as art....artsy. But there is a lot of science and engineering that went into our designs. So I’d say there is an application to art in STEM. Do I think it’s about throwing paint at a canvas and callling it art....no. But if that painting is planned and techniques for getting the right affect are worked on (drying times, type of paint, tools, etc.) there is undoubtedly some science behind it.
Now, this is seen as art....artsy. But there is a lot of science and engineering that went into our designs. So I’d say there is an application to art in STEM. Do I think it’s about throwing paint at a canvas and callling it art....no. But if that painting is planned and techniques for getting the right affect are worked on (drying times, type of paint, tools, etc.) there is undoubtedly some science behind it.
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