Pedestrian walking speed

[dana]

Hi guys:

I have a big doubt, what is now the default pedestrian walking speed. I read pages 18-66 HCM 2010 and page 18-20, I am not sure wich one do I have to use, please Help!

Thanks

Danay

 

[bradlelf]

I don't have the HCM at home with me right now but off the top of my head thought it was 4.4 FPS in normal conditions.

Been a while since I had to do this but "Average pedestrian speed is a measure of pedestrian walking speed along the segment length, taking into account intersection delay. Pedestrian walking speed is estimated at 4.4 feet/second for most conditions, but should be reduced for locations with changes in grade or a high percentage of elderly or school-age pedestrians."

What it actually says on 18-66 or 18-20 I would have to look it up.

_len

 

[dana]

Thanks for your answer, I read that section in HCM and I think the new value is 4 Ft/sec, if you read the manual PLEASE let me know what you think.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[ptatohed]

dana,

Look at the 6th Ed GDHS pages 2-79 - 2-80; the 2009 MUTCD pages 497 - 498 and 529; and the HCM2010 page 4-24.

While there is a lot of information on these pages, with depending variables, and even some apparently conflicting values, what I gather from reading these pages is the average pedestrian walking speed for an open sidewalk/walkway is 5.0 ft/s and the average walking speed for street crossing is 3.5 ft/s.

Is that what you see too?

 

[bradlelf]

dana,

Look at the 6th Ed GDHS pages 2-79 - 2-80; the 2009 MUTCD pages 497 - 498 and 529; and the HCM2010 page 4-24.

While there is a lot of information on these pages, with depending variables, and even some apparently conflicting values, what I gather from reading these pages is the average pedestrian walking speed for an open sidewalk/walkway is 5.0 ft/s and the average walking speed for street crossing is 3.5 ft/s.

Is that what you see too?

+1 that is what I looked up this morning

 

[Boomer01 PE]

It used to be 4 ft/s, but has recently been reduced to 3.5 ft/s for older, slower pedestrians.

 

[dana]

Oh this is so confusing, If you read HCM page 18-66 to compute Pedestrian Service Time SP = 4ft/sec if o% to 20% of pedestrian are elderly, if more tan 20% are elferly you need to use 3.3 ft/sec. But if you read page 18-20 Speed of pedestrian crossing is equal to 3.5 ft/ sec.

My question is wich speed I will use in the test for the following cases:

Average Pededstrian Space Ap=Sp/vp HCM page 23-12

Pedestrian Service Time=3.2 + Lcc/Sp +2.7 Nped/W HCM page 18-67

Sp= 3.5 ft/sec or 4 ft/sec or 3.3 ft/sec?

Thanks!!!

 

[dana]

dana,

Look at the 6th Ed GDHS pages 2-79 - 2-80; the 2009 MUTCD pages 497 - 498 and 529; and the HCM2010 page 4-24.

While there is a lot of information on these pages, with depending variables, and even some apparently conflicting values, what I gather from reading these pages is the average pedestrian walking speed for an open sidewalk/walkway is 5.0 ft/s and the average walking speed for street crossing is 3.5 ft/s.

Is that what you see too?

Thanks for your answer, I read those pages and I agree with you, 3.5 ft/sec but I just did school of pe classes and the professor told us to use 4 ft/ sec, I am not sure, there is a lot of different speeds and I dont want lo loose that point, I am pretty sure that we will have a pedestrian question in the test, Is there another source to find out this info?

 

[ptatohed]

dana,

Look at the 6th Ed GDHS pages 2-79 - 2-80; the 2009 MUTCD pages 497 - 498 and 529; and the HCM2010 page 4-24.

While there is a lot of information on these pages, with depending variables, and even some apparently conflicting values, what I gather from reading these pages is the average pedestrian walking speed for an open sidewalk/walkway is 5.0 ft/s and the average walking speed for street crossing is 3.5 ft/s.

Is that what you see too?

Thanks for your answer, I read those pages and I agree with you, 3.5 ft/sec but I just did school of pe classes and the professor told us to use 4 ft/ sec, I am not sure, there is a lot of different speeds and I dont want lo loose that point, I am pretty sure that we will have a pedestrian question in the test, Is there another source to find out this info?

I suspect that the 4fps was based on the 2000HCM and/or the 2003MUTCD and/or the 5th ed GDHS. Practice problems often trail behind when NCEES updates its standards. Do you have access to the previous editions of the three aforementioned references? Check in them to see if you find that the avg ped spd = 4fps. If you do, then you know the 4fps came from the old standards. Let me know if you need me to look it up for you, I have these older references.

 

[dana]

I sent the same question to my professor and he told me to look at Exh. 18-28 on page 18-76, default speed 3.5 ft / sec, so if I need to use the pedestrian speed I will use 3.5 ft/sec.

4.0 ft/sec was the default value in older edition, Is a little bit confusing!

Thanks for your help!

 

[ptatohed]

Checked the previous editions (2003 MUTCD, the 5th Ed GDHS and the 2000HCM) and all state 4.0fps. So, that's where the 4.0fps came from.

Per our conversation above, we now know the new value for average pedestrian walking speed is 3.5fps (2009 MUTCD, 6th Ed GDHS, 2010HCM).

 

[dana]

Checked the previous editions (2003 MUTCD, the 5th Ed GDHS and the 2000HCM) and all state 4.0fps. So, that's where the 4.0fps came from.

Per our conversation above, we now know the new value for average pedestrian walking speed is 3.5fps (2009 MUTCD, 6th Ed GDHS, 2010HCM).

Yes! Thanks again!

 

[Phantom PE]

Now I am more confused than I was during the class. It appears to me that when you are trying to find the Pedestrian Service Time you want to use the 4 ft/s, as that is what is listed in the HCM for this type of problem. I do see in the MUTCD and HCM though in other places that it appears the standard is 3.5ft/s. So I guess I will use that in other places, but if I am figuring Pedestrian Service Time, I am still using 4 ft/s I think.

On a side note in the HCM. What is the number in parentheses showing, a reference? For example, pg 18-67, at the end of the paragraph that starts under D. Compute Pedestrian Service Time is the number 29 in parentheses (29). Is this referencing something?

 

[ptatohed]

Now I am more confused than I was during the class. It appears to me that when you are trying to find the Pedestrian Service Time you want to use the 4 ft/s, as that is what is listed in the HCM for this type of problem. I do see in the MUTCD and HCM though in other places that it appears the standard is 3.5ft/s. So I guess I will use that in other places, but if I am figuring Pedestrian Service Time, I am still using 4 ft/s I think.

On a side note in the HCM. What is the number in parentheses showing, a reference? For example, pg 18-67, at the end of the paragraph that starts under D. Compute Pedestrian Service Time is the number 29 in parentheses (29). Is this referencing something?

Phantom,

What is "the class"?. I totally understand what you are saying. The HCM2010 on page 4-24 says to use 3.5fps (less than 20% elderly) and 3.0fps (more than 20% elderly) for intersection crossing evaluation. Then, on page 18-66 of the HCM2010 it says to use 4.0 (not elderly) and 3.3 (elderly). Even the example on page 18-97 of the HCM2010 uses 4.0fps. In the AASHTO GDHS 6th ed. page 2-79 it says to use 3.5 and/or 3.0 (not elderly) and 2.8 (elderly). The 2009 MUTCD basically says to use 3.5. So, yes, there is some conflicting data out there.

However, with all that said, I do believe the most current acceptable pedestrian crossing walking speeds are 3.5fps (general population) and 3.0fps (older pedestrians). Please see HCM2010 pages 4-24 and 4-25 which states that the 15 percentile crossing speed should be used. The 15 percentile speed was studied extensively by TCRP and NCHRP in a cooperative research program. See the findings in the report here. The report's conclusion was to use 3.5 and 3.0fps.

As in the HCM example problems, perhaps an exam question would include the walking speed in the problem "facts"?

To answer your last question, yes the numbers in parentheses found at the end of certain sentences in the HCM are referring you to the list of References, found at the back of the HCM chapter.

I hope that helps a little.

 

[dana]

My only hope with all this confusion is that in the problem they will give me the speed I need to use in my calculations.

 

[Phantom PE]

"the class" was the same one as dana's, the School of PE. I agree with dana though, I really hope if they have that question on there, that they give us the speed.

 

[dana]

Yesterday I was studying and what was my surprise when I saw a problem where they use pedestrian speed use 4 ft/sec.

Also I notice that in NCEES and All in one exams teh speed of pedestrian is given. If you want to check is the problem 1 page 23-28 HCM.

I'm confused again.... :beat:

 

[rejectedbytexas]

We can calculate two sets and see what matches the given choices, in case the walking speed is not specified in the question

HCM 2010 is the most confusing manual by TRB I have ever seen.

 

[dana]

We can calculate two sets and see what matches the given choices, in case the walking speed is not specified in the question

HCM 2010 is the most confusing manual by TRB I have ever seen.

I agree. Thanks.