How did that happen?

[Exception Collection]

Major, youve used two things to prove your point that actually derail it completely, Santa Claus and Zeus. There is no one on earth saying either is real, any credible written evidence for either and, in fact, everyone knows they are complete fabrications. There is written evidence, with verifiable authenticity, for the God of the bible, there is physical proof for some events that are recorded in the Bible and untold millions have been slain for this God because of what he has done for them. Yes, both of us were blessed to have been born in a christian family. I pity and pray for those that were'nt, but that doesnt reduce my faith in or love for the God that caused the whale to swallow Jonah. Back on point, how much O2 would have had to be in the whales belly for a man to survive for 3 days?

Actually, some Wiccans still follow the old Greco-Roman gods; others follow the Norse pantheon, or the Celtic one. As for the original remark about Posieden crushing people - sounds like a tidal wave to me. And hey look, a tree blasted by lightning - surely Zeus did it!

I should point out that the story of the Red Sea isn't proven. As far as I know, no miraculous story from the Bible is "proven". Yes, there's evidence that something could have happened... but whether it was made up and just happens to fit theoretical possibilities, or if it actually happened exactly as written, is impossible to truly prove.

If someone were to write a book about how they called the wrath of Poseiden down on Japan, and it was around for 2000 years... would scientists proclaim that the Fukushima disaster was due to Poseiden?

Edit: Oh, and napkin math indicates that it'd be about 294 cubic feet (based on NASA oxygen consumption levels). More importantly, where would he get water from?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

It is the same as Santa Claus, as a child, many people were told Santa was real, but then when they got older, the adults let them in on the little secret, so the truth comes out.

WHAT??!!

:i_cry:

Ummm.... and, uh, you remember those teeth you put under the pillow?

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Major, youve used two things to prove your point that actually derail it completely, Santa Claus and Zeus.

Santa Claus is a bad example because he was just the subject of an old fairy tale that is being perverted for financial gain in modern society.

Zeus, on the other hand, is an excellent example. I assure you that the ancient Greeks were just as convinced that Zeus was the God of Gods as you are that the Christian God is the one true God. They also had writings and teachings that "proved" that he existed. They also thought that the sun was dragged into the sky in by a chariot piloted by Helios. Sounds crazy now, doesn't it?

The bible does include verifiable events because the writers tried to incorporate real events into their stories to lend credence to them. I believe the historical facts in the bible, but I guess my lack of "faith" prevents me from believing in the "miracles."

 

[Exception Collection]

Well, both of them are fervently believed by many people until the point of disillusionment. The god of the bible is fervently believe by many people until the point of disillusionment. The fact that people have died because they believe does not make it true. People died because of so called "weapons of mass destruction", is there any evidence that such things existed? It's debatable just like God is.

One wonders: Is the "no WMD" argument ever going to get a term of it's own, like godwinning of threads?

/threadjack

 

[Master slacker]

The age of the earth is verifiable - roughly - through scientific means. The expansion of the universe is now "visible" to us; based on the rate of said expansion, the age of the universe itself is calculable. Those are not theories. They are as close to fact as it is possible to obtain.

Many people (scientists) state this. But is it really so? If this "sphere" of a universe is constantly expanding (and it's a really dark sphere), how in the hell do we determine where the edge is? So galaxies and stars are moving away from each other at XYZ lightyears / year. Where's the edge of the universe?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Yes, both of us were blessed to have been born in a christian family. I pity and pray for those that were'nt, but that doesnt reduce my faith in or love for the God that caused the whale to swallow Jonah.

But would a kind and loving God allow people to go to Hell merely for not accepting His Son as the Savior?

I wouldn't think so. Always had a problem with that being raised Baptist.

I don't know the answers, and none of us really does. But in the end, I believe that a kind and loving God would reveal The Truth to us, and allow us the final decision to accept The Truth or not. regardless of whatever religion we practiced.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

The age of the earth is verifiable - roughly - through scientific means. The expansion of the universe is now "visible" to us; based on the rate of said expansion, the age of the universe itself is calculable. Those are not theories. They are as close to fact as it is possible to obtain.

Many people (scientists) state this. But is it really so? If this "sphere" of a universe is constantly expanding (and it's a really dark sphere), how in the hell do we determine where the edge is? So galaxies and stars are moving away from each other at XYZ lightyears / year. Where's the edge of the universe?

I can't accept that the speed of light is as fast as we can go, either. I just can't mentally accept a physical top speed.

 

[Exception Collection]

The age of the earth is verifiable - roughly - through scientific means. The expansion of the universe is now "visible" to us; based on the rate of said expansion, the age of the universe itself is calculable. Those are not theories. They are as close to fact as it is possible to obtain.

Many people (scientists) state this. But is it really so? If this "sphere" of a universe is constantly expanding (and it's a really dark sphere), how in the hell do we determine where the edge is? So galaxies and stars are moving away from each other at XYZ lightyears / year. Where's the edge of the universe?

Note: I'm not an astrophysicist, or a physicist at all. This is my understanding of the situation, and my be incorrect.

Let's say you have a dozen balls floating at the "center" of an infinitely large, uniform pool. If you apply a force outward at the exact center of the pool, you create a wave that will continue out, getting weaker and smaller as the force spreads to a larger effective area. By the actions of the balls, you can calculate the distance from the "center" of the pool to the outermost edge of the circular wave.

Again, it's a theory. But it's a theory that matches our best understanding of the physics of the universe.

 

[Master slacker]

Well, I believe the fast speed at which we can travel is limited to the amount of energy absorbed by us in the process and, subsequently, will be whatever amount of energy it takes for us to vaporize.

I calculated that to be 1.34 times the speed of light in a vacuum. And, yes, I used the MERM.

 

[Master slacker]

The age of the earth is verifiable - roughly - through scientific means. The expansion of the universe is now "visible" to us; based on the rate of said expansion, the age of the universe itself is calculable. Those are not theories. They are as close to fact as it is possible to obtain.

Many people (scientists) state this. But is it really so? If this "sphere" of a universe is constantly expanding (and it's a really dark sphere), how in the hell do we determine where the edge is? So galaxies and stars are moving away from each other at XYZ lightyears / year. Where's the edge of the universe?

Note: I'm not an astrophysicist, or a physicist at all. This is my understanding of the situation, and my be incorrect.

Let's say you have a dozen balls floating at the "center" of an infinitely large, uniform pool. If you apply a force outward at the exact center of the pool, you create a wave that will continue out, getting weaker and smaller as the force spreads to a larger effective area. By the actions of the balls, you can calculate the distance from the "center" of the pool to the outermost edge of the circular wave.

Again, it's a theory. But it's a theory that matches our best understanding of the physics of the universe.

Has the center of the universe been determined?

 

[Road Guy]

There was a really interesting program on a few weeks ago on the the discovery chanel, but it basically said that due to calculating "sound rays" NASA was able to track back (an estimated calculation of course) the origins of all known suns, solar systems, etc to a common point in the universe.. it was pretty cool if you get a chance to catch it

 

[snickerd3]

so thunder/lightening storms aren't God and the angels bowling in heaven?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

The age of the earth is verifiable - roughly - through scientific means. The expansion of the universe is now "visible" to us; based on the rate of said expansion, the age of the universe itself is calculable. Those are not theories. They are as close to fact as it is possible to obtain.

Many people (scientists) state this. But is it really so? If this "sphere" of a universe is constantly expanding (and it's a really dark sphere), how in the hell do we determine where the edge is? So galaxies and stars are moving away from each other at XYZ lightyears / year. Where's the edge of the universe?

Note: I'm not an astrophysicist, or a physicist at all. This is my understanding of the situation, and my be incorrect.

Let's say you have a dozen balls floating at the "center" of an infinitely large, uniform pool. If you apply a force outward at the exact center of the pool, you create a wave that will continue out, getting weaker and smaller as the force spreads to a larger effective area. By the actions of the balls, you can calculate the distance from the "center" of the pool to the outermost edge of the circular wave.

Again, it's a theory. But it's a theory that matches our best understanding of the physics of the universe.

Has the center of the universe been determined?

It is me.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

so thunder/lightening storms aren't God and the angels bowling in heaven?

And when it rains with the sun out, the Devil isn't beating his wife?

 

[Master slacker]

That reminds me, ask anyone this question and see what their reply is.

Do you still beat your wife?

 

[snickerd3]

That reminds me, ask anyone this question and see what their reply is.
Do you still beat your wife?

yep, mr snick still still beats me every time we play Risk or chess.

 

[Exception Collection]

Yes, both of us were blessed to have been born in a christian family. I pity and pray for those that were'nt, but that doesnt reduce my faith in or love for the God that caused the whale to swallow Jonah.

But would a kind and loving God allow people to go to Hell merely for not accepting His Son as the Savior?

I wouldn't think so. Always had a problem with that being raised Baptist.

I don't know the answers, and none of us really does. But in the end, I believe that a kind and loving God would reveal The Truth to us, and allow us the final decision to accept The Truth or not. regardless of whatever religion we practiced.

Or would an intelligent, omnicient, all powerful god send people to hell for merely using the brain he created in us and honestly seeking for the truth even if all that seeking eventually resulted in intelligent people not believing in him? Why would an all loving, all knowing, intelligent being make the single most important decision people have to make so nebulous and confusing and based solely on faith when it has such enormous consequences? It doesn't make any sense when you try to apply it to a supreme being, but it makes perfect sense when you apply it to a mythological figure that 1st century men created.

My viewpoint of Heaven & Hell is slightly different than the "Fire & Brimstone" belief.

Heaven, for the believers, is simply living in God's presence - physical or otherwise.

The "lake of fire" isn't for non-believers; it's for those that believed but abused their positions; for those that knowingly cause issues for other people. I'm not talking about just people that sin; everyone does that to an extent. I'm talking about those that betray others so that they can get more power - those that repeatedly and persistently use their positions to abuse those under them - those that knowingly and willingly deceive others to commit evil acts in the name of God.

For non-believers - those that rejected God - they get something else. Specifically, exactly what they wanted: No God. As strange as it may seem to atheists, imagine for a second that the Creator does exist, that his Light makes everything around him joyous, and rids his followers of all pain and sorrow. And now that he's revealed Himself - you are completely cut off from Him.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Personally, I find any Holy book to be nothing more than a series of stories to help set your moral compass (akin to Aesops Fables) as well as "wives tales" to help teach the population about proper diet and survival for the time in which they originated. Alot of these diet and survival stories are severely outdated and provide incomplete or inaccurate information, like using a 19th century industrial manufacturing processes for work today (can you say mercury, lead, and asbestos?). Shellfish are seen as an abomination (Leviticus) and pork is seen as "dirty" because at the times these were introduced to their respective holy books, the population did not have the safe and clean harvesting, preparation, and storage capabilities we have today, and because it was easier to write them off as "dirty" because they didn't have the understanding of bacteria, fungus, disease, and why people would get sick and die from eating them. They wrote their "policies" and stories based on the limited information they had, and unlike the manufacturing manuals and policies we have generated over the last hundred or so years, the "policies" became hard centuries old, unquestioned and unchanged.

I also agree with Highway in that these stories originated 2000 years ago and were passed on by word of mouth for centuries before they were ever written. Then they were re-written by their respective religious figures who have been proven time and time again to be very politically biased. Additionally, how many Kings, Lords, Sultans, etc had sections of the Bible possibly re-written to "allow" their actions to be ok (Can you say King Henry VIII?)? These revisions were to allow these heads of state to avoid religious fall-outs, not to update them like the manual example I referred to above.

Combine all of that with the language translations. Has anyone seen an American movie translated to Mandarin, then have re-translated english subtitles across the bottom (lookup Mandarin Return of the Jedi on youtube sometime)? Even the original intent of what was said is oftentimes butchered.

I have no issues with people using them as a moral compass. There are alot of great life lessons to be learned on how to be a good person and productive member of society (kindness, love, trust, friendship, honor, humility, etc). It's when they start using the Bible as fact is when I start having issues. I like to use the current internet cliche: Pics or it didn't happen.

[/rant]

<puts on fire-resistant suit>

 

[Exception Collection]

That reminds me, ask anyone this question and see what their reply is.
Do you still beat your wife?

I know several people that would cheerfully answer that with a "Yes, but only when she begs".

/I have some weird friends.

 

[Master slacker]

Most people I have asked don't acknowledge the "still" in the question. After they answer, they realize that there was a "still" and they look silly.