Citing Flawed Analysis, Feds Send EPA Storm Water Rules Back to the Drawing Board

[Dleg]

You're mixing up a couple of things. The erosion and sediment control plan applies during construction only - same goes for the construction NPDES permit - it's focused only on construction. The rain gardens and other things are post-construction stormwater controls, designed to improve the quality of stormwater runoff from the final, stabilized development. Often through the reduction of runoff. The reason for this is tons of good science (tens of thousands of monitored sites throughout the country) that shows that even residential subdivision runoff can severely degrade natural waters. Pretty severely, sometimes. Fertilizers, pet wastes, etc. It doesn't take much.

Of course, this is all fairly recent stuff and is in the process of being adopted by states and municipalities around the country, so yes, it is possible that your regulator saw a change in the rules part way through your project. Every local or state government is different in how they apply new new rules to existing projects. Your complaint should probably therefore be directed to the State (or city) attorney general, to make sure the environmental regulators are following the appropriate administrative procedures. However, the regulation amendments will usually include a subsection that explicitly lays out how existing projects will be handled, and this probably went through the AGO's review. It's worth a shot if you feel that strongly about it (or have been hit hard financially because of it).

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Dumb question, but don't those rain gardens and detention ponds promote mosquitos? I've always wondered that. leave water around for a few hours here, and a hoard of them is born.

 

[picusld]

You're mixing up a couple of things. The erosion and sediment control plan applies during construction only - same goes for the construction NPDES permit - it's focused only on construction. The rain gardens and other things are post-construction stormwater controls, designed to improve the quality of stormwater runoff from the final, stabilized development. Often through the reduction of runoff. The reason for this is tons of good science (tens of thousands of monitored sites throughout the country) that shows that even residential subdivision runoff can severely degrade natural waters. Pretty severely, sometimes. Fertilizers, pet wastes, etc. It doesn't take much.
Of course, this is all fairly recent stuff and is in the process of being adopted by states and municipalities around the country, so yes, it is possible that your regulator saw a change in the rules part way through your project. Every local or state government is different in how they apply new new rules to existing projects. Your complaint should probably therefore be directed to the State (or city) attorney general, to make sure the environmental regulators are following the appropriate administrative procedures. However, the regulation amendments will usually include a subsection that explicitly lays out how existing projects will be handled, and this probably went through the AGO's review. It's worth a shot if you feel that strongly about it (or have been hit hard financially because of it).

In PA the post construction controls are enforced through the issuance of the NPDES permit (which is required for construction). If you don't provide them, you don't get your permit.

Then come the agreements...I don't think that I would ever buy a home that came with giving the government or any other agency a perpetual right to enter in order to inspect that a rain garden was in place and working. It seems like a back door way of taking land from a property owner and I don't think the average Joe truly understands...But it is happenning now.

I completely support clean water and recharging of the groundwater system in order to ensure that future generations will have water to drink, but mandating a taking of land in order to build a new home just doesn't seem right.

Dleg, you wouldn't happen to have a website where I could see some of these studies? They may be helpful when I am doing my water quality calcs.

 

[picusld]

Dumb question, but don't those rain gardens and detention ponds promote mosquitos? I've always wondered that. leave water around for a few hours here, and a hoard of them is born.

Depends on the soil conditions.

 

[Dleg]

^Rain gardens are designed to infiltrate the water within a relatively short period of time, and pond to 6 inches or less, so mosquitoes would not be an issue unless the rain garden was clogged due to, say excessive sedimenation during construction, or really tight soils (clays), like picusld said. Detention ponds, wetlands, ponds, etc. are potential mosquito habitat. But there are some ways around that - mosquito fish and other predators that live in natural waterbodies can keep activity to the same level as a natural pond, for example, as compared to something like a tire pile, where tons of little pools exist without predators, making an ideal mosquito breeding area.

picusld, you can probably google some more complete data, but here is a report on road runoff quality that I used in a recent surface water supply sanitary survey I prepared. It's from the NDPES monitoring database and is based on thousands of sites, so it's pretty good stuff. It breaks out residential areas so you can compare residential area runoff to commercial areas and other land uses. I cut out the table I prepared for my report, which condenses the information into a slightly easier to use format, but it doesn't cover all the land uses that are in the big report (can't upload a Word file, so if you want it in Word, PM me and I will send it to you).

http://rpitt.eng.ua.edu/Publications/Stormwater Characteristics/NSQD EPA.pdf://http://rpitt.eng.ua.edu/Publication...cs/NSQD EPA.pdf://http://rpitt.eng.ua.edu/Publication...cs/NSQD EPA.pdf://http://rpitt.eng.ua.edu/Publication...cs/NSQD EPA.pdf

Highway_runoff.pdf

 

[picusld]

^Thanks for the info. I will be sure to take a look at it. I actually have had some email correspondence with Dr. Pitt regarding another paper that he had written and he took the time to write a very nice and detailed response answering my question.

I am hoping that at some point he comes up with a better way to estimate run off volume than the SCS method. I have been attempting to use the SSHM method which he discusses in one of his papers, but it has its limitations and not everyone accepts it.

 

[Dleg]

:dunno: It's all just estimates anyway, based on trying to predict the unpredictable.