At least 20 people killed in shooting at Texas church

[knight1fox3]

That being said, I can still admire a certain type of policy in another country, can I not?

Surely you can. But you didn't necessarily state for which reasons you admire their methods. Because as I pointed out above, it surely isn't about the numbers. And if it isn't about the numbers, then I have to wonder what particulars about Australia are so attractive, other than their low and very spread out populace.

 

[Road Guy]

Delta is always ready....

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

3 shootings in the last 20 years in Australia versus how many in the United States? @knight1fox3claims there were *only* 29 in the US. Maybe in the last 6 months... I would like to see where those figures come from because the sources I'm seeing note "317 mass shootings in the US from 1999-2013". The Mass Shooting Tracker shows 378. To adjust for population, that would mean Australia would have needed at least 22 in that same time frame (1999-2013, assuming US was always 14x more populated than Australia) but: Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 and No mass shootings in Australia in 20 years say otherwise.  I should note the last link to NBC included commentary that they feel Australia's success is unlikely to be possible in the US due to cultural differences.

Current figures are showing gun-related homicides in the US at approximately 3.6 per 100k citizens.  Compare that to 0.0 in the UK, or 0.2 in Australia (Reposting link).

It is not a scaled problem in terms of population. It is a scaled problem in terms of # of guns per capita.

But back to a simpler point: the US is still in the mindset that "it's not as bad as..." implying that it isn't bad and doesn't need addressing, or at a minimum using it to trivialize the need to do something. Enforcing the laws on the already on the books...how is that working out? Why not change the laws to something that is more easily enforced?

Believe me, I will be the first to admit if I'm called out on incorrect data. I encourage it. I would actually love to be proven wrong and that mass shootings are not a problem.

 

[knight1fox3]

The only next logical solution for society:

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Let's look closer at the mass shootings KF identified:

"In 2011, there was a mass shooting in Hectorville." - Correct. 3 dead, 3 more injured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hectorville_siege - guy was later found not-guilty by reason of insanity and sentenced to life in hospital care.

"In 2014, one in Hunt"  - Partially correct. It was actually the Hunt family killed by the father who then turned the gun on himself. It was not a public mass-shooting. - http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-murders-witness-describes-final-night-at-family-home-20151006-gk2vo5.html

"2014 one in Wedderburn (which was a 4 hour siege of a neighborhood)" - Technically correct. It was an elderly man who killed his also elderly neighbor, wife and son over an argument who then holed up in his house for 4 hrs. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-23/three-dead-man-arrested-after-siege-in-victoria/5834800

While technically they all match the criteria of mass shooting "more than 4 people hurt/killed by a gun in a single act", none of these are even close to the bi-weekly **** the US is seeing.

 

[knight1fox3]

While technically they all match the criteria of mass shooting "more than 4 people hurt/killed by a gun in a single act", none of these are even close to the bi-weekly **** the US is seeing.

So based on your rationale above, "This is ok because it's not as bad as...."

The hypocrisy is strong with this one...

 

[Road Guy]

I bought two new over under shotguns yesterday. going to go murder some pheasants this weekend!

 

[akwooly]

Over under? Side by side is where it's at!

 

[Dleg]

I'll take an over-under, myself.

 

[matt267 PE]

over-under, side-by-side, I'm more worried about poor peasants. 

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

So based on your rationale above, "This is ok because it's not as bad as...."

The hypocrisy is strong with this one...

Yep. I provided a bad comparison. That means everything is equally fucked all around the world and nothing can be done. Guess we'll just keep sending thoughts and prayers...

 

[knight1fox3]

That means everything is equally fucked all around

I need to start using this line when I have a project that is not going well. LOL :thumbs:

 

[akwooly]

I need to start using this line when I have a project that is not going well. LOL :thumbs:

Don't forget to offer thoughts and prayers. 

 

[knight1fox3]

Don't forget to offer thoughts and prayers. 

For who? The project manager?? LOL

:lmao:

 

[akwooly]

For who? The project manager?? LOL

:lmao:

To whoever is going to get their ass chewed! 

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

In all serious, I apologize for the "not as bad as" hypocrisy. 

Those events in Australia were horrible events. They do show that the Australian model isn't perfect, and I never claimed it was. I was trying to illustrate that Australia had bad things happen after enacting the gun ban but they as a society did something about it. They had a couple really bad shootings in 1996 (very similar to Sandy Hook), came together as a society and did something about it. They supported wholesale gun legislation that drastically reduced the chances of more bad events from happening.

I was also trying to point out that what KF showed as "mass shootings" in Australia would have barely even made the local news in the US. The US has devolved to the point that a man killing his family and then himself doesn't even register as news anymore. So by American society standards, Australia really isn't "as bad as" the US is. 

 

[Road Guy]

I actually found a place that sells side by sides but only in 12 GA (JAX)  these are 20 GA Christmas gifts for my younger two kids (16 & 14) but I am going to try them out first, you know to make sure they work

 

[NJmike PE]

 

[akwooly]

I have a over under 12 ga and a 20 ga side by side. Upland birds is too easy with a 12 ga so I like my 20 or 28 ga semi auto for upland birds. 

 

[NJmike PE]

So let's look at it from a different perspective, 

http://nypost.com/2017/11/09/hero-dad-stops-attempted-kidnapping-of-daughter-police/

A father in Florida is being credited with thwarting an attempted kidnapping of his 17-year-old daughter, firing shots as four teen suspects tried to break into his garage, police said.

“A short time later her father heard his dogs barking and saw his front motion-activated flood lights come on,” the statement continued. “He also heard what sounded like his car door closing and went to get his gun.”

He saw some people trying to force their way into his garage and fired three shots, sending the would-be intruders scurrying into the woods, police said. The homeowner later discovered that some security lights at his home had been unscrewed.

Now, I know that a few of us here have kids, even some with daughters. That said, put yourself in this guys position. He did what was right, you all know it. If the law abiding citizen here (father, not thugs) didn't have a weapon, there is no way that he stops this. None. But if there were a change to the gun laws as suggested by some here, there IS a possibility that this guy doesn't have a weapon and therefore, cannot protect his family.  

See, my biggest argument through all of this is that the law abiding citizen are the one who will get screwed. Evil is out there and it knows no bounds. The "bad guys" will find a way to inflict harm. So great, you take away guys to some more strict level. Let's suppose that it works. That is not going to stop them. They will move on to some other form of a weapon. Knives, hammers, vehicles, they won't stop. So what's next, harsher regulations on being a licensed operator of a car because of a spike in vehicle-related mass casualty scenarios, background checks to purchase tools? In the end, even though the added laws are intended to "protect" the "good guy" citizen, it ends up stripping their civil liberties.