A simple way to improve education

[MGX]

How's this to motivate kids to learn - make education illegal.

 

[OSUguy98]

How's this to motivate kids to learn - make education illegal.

Gotta love reverse pyschology....... It... just... might... work...

 

[csb]

This last comment will come out alot harsher (and alot more cliche) than I intend but,someone has to grow up to become the janitor/maid/mechanic/gas station attendant/retail clerk. High school isn't for everyone. There is nothing wrong with doing these jobs. They may not provide all of the riches and glory, but they do provide incomes that someone can survive on. You want more than this for yourself or for your kids, work for it. Don't blame society when your child fails in school. Who taught your child how to learn? It's the parents job to teach the kids how to learn, its the teachers job to teach the info.

I agree with this. Somewhere along the line we all started to get fed the line, "You can be anything you want to be!" but how people accepted that into their lives differed. Some people looked at it and realized it would take work to be anything they wanted to be and other people thought that someone was just going to hand them what they needed to be who they want to be. I didn't become an engineer because someone handed everything to me on a silver platter...I had to do the soul sucking work to get where I'm at and my parents were the ones who prepared me for it...not my teachers.

 

[picusld]

Children having and doing a poor job of raising children...drop-outs having and doing a poor job of raising more future drop-outs. Parents who are content with the jobs...or NO jobs...they have and who endow their children with that contentment.
Add to that a pervasive negativity about education, which trickles down to the children, mix in with a view that teachers are "public servants" who don't need a competitive wage, and you have a recipe for a poor outlook for children.

Guess what kind of adults you get?

what do you mean by "don't need a competative wage"?

is that to mean that they are over paid or under paid?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Under. Waaaay under.

 

[picusld]

Under. Waaaay under.

Respectfully, I have to dissagree.

My school district is currently holding out b/c the teachers union feels the same as yourself. The average teacher salary that they are looking for is 74k.

Assuming 180 working days a year and an 8 hr work day, that essentially gives them 1440 billable hrs a year and 51 dollar per hr salary. That coupled with guarunteed retirement, little chance of getting fired, and free health care is significantly more than I am earning as a PE.

How much do you think they should make?

 

[benbo]

Under. Waaaay under.

I would agree that in general teachers are underpaid and underappreciated, and given the blame for a lot of stuff which is out of their control.

But, because education is still a local matter, there is no universal answer to whether teachers are underpaid. In some districts, gung-ho new teachers doing an excellent job are paid $30K - way less than they deserve. In some other districts, teachers with lots of time on the books are basically just riding it out at relatively high pay.

My buddy's wife is a teacher in the Long Beach California school district- at 20 years she makes $75K for a nine month year. Now she's got tough duty, but I don't think she's underpaid.

 

[chaosiscash]

Under. Waaaay under.

You think so? I don't know, I always thought that their hourly rate wasn't too bad, all things considered. I have a family full of teachers (in SC, no less) and I hear a lot of complaining about pay. But you mention the option of working over the summer at another job to one of them, and they'll look at you like you've sprouted another head.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Respectfully, I have to dissagree.
My school district is currently holding out b/c the teachers union feels the same as yourself. The average teacher salary that they are looking for is 74k.

Show's you the value of a union. Here in this area of SC, the average teacher pay is around 40K.

My buddy's wife is a teacher in the Long Beach California school district- at 20 years she makes $75K for a nine month year. Now she's got tough duty, but I don't think she's underpaid.

See above...

You think so? I don't know, I always thought that their hourly rate wasn't too bad, all things considered. I have a family full of teachers (in SC, no less) and I hear a lot of complaining about pay. But you mention the option of working over the summer at another job to one of them, and they'll look at you like you've sprouted another head.

I guess it depends on the teacher. The ones I know are the ones putting in 12-15 hour days getting paperwork done and doing extracurricular stuff. How does that 40K sound now?

 

[snickerd3]

depends on the area and school district. most of my cousins are teachers in the Chicago burbs. One teaches highschool math part time (3 to 4 classes/day) and gets paid the same as my other cousin who teaches high school physics full time.

 

[picusld]

Show's you the value of a union. Here in this area of SC, the average teacher pay is around 40K.
That is what it should be given the other perks.

See above...

I guess it depends on the teacher. The ones I know are the ones putting in 12-15 hour days getting paperwork done and doing extracurricular stuff. How does that 40K sound now?

Just because it takes someone twice as long to do a job, does not mean that they should get paid for their personal hangups. I would recomend a good organizational instructor or retrain to help them do their job.

 

[FLBuff PE]

Just because it takes someone twice as long to do a job, does not mean that they should get paid for their personal hangups. I would recomend a good organizational instructor or retrain to help them do their job.

Generalization alert!

 

[benbo]

Just because it takes someone twice as long to do a job, does not mean that they should get paid for their personal hangups. I would recomend a good organizational instructor or retrain to help them do their job.

I don't know if I would call coming in at 5 AM and staying after until 5 PM coaching a sports team a "personal hangup."

 

[chaosiscash]

I guess it depends on the teacher. The ones I know are the ones putting in 12-15 hour days getting paperwork done and doing extracurricular stuff. How does that 40K sound now?

12 hours a day, 180 days a year. Sound like around $18.50 an hour starting salary, with a degree you can get any any small college, in a low cost of living state. Sure, you can make more money doing other things, but you can make less as well. I stand by my original statement.

 

[chaosiscash]

I don't know if I would call coming in at 5 AM and staying after until 5 PM coaching a sports team a "personal hangup."

Sports coaches (at least in SC) receive additional pay for their time. Or at least my sister, the middle school girls tennis coach, does.

 

[picusld]

I don't know if I would call coming in at 5 AM and staying after until 5 PM coaching a sports team a "personal hangup."

No, but I would call it a lack of organizational skills. If their time is that important to them, maybe it would be an idea to drop coaching the sports team (which I am sure they are paid extra). Normal practice is around 3 hrs, right?

So that cuts their work day from 5-5 to 5-2. Problem solved...and you didn't even need an organizational coach.

 

[benbo]

No, but I would call it a lack of organizational skills. If their time is that important to them, maybe it would be an idea to drop coaching the sports team (which I am sure they are paid extra). Normal practice is around 3 hrs, right?
So that cuts their work day from 5-5 to 5-2. Problem solved...and you didn't even need an organizational coach.

Your idea of solving an organizational problem is to quit?

I don't know what difference it makes whether they are paid extra. They aren't making 6 figures. Somebody has to coach the sports team, or the extracurriculars. Waterpolo coaches, for example, and swimming coaches, have practice both before and after school. They have meets to go to. Plus they have papers to grade, lesson plans to prepare, etc. Often teachers volunteer to sponsor and lead clubs, for which I know they don't get paid extra, at least in our school district.

 

[picusld]

Your idea of solving an organizational problem is to quit? I don't know what difference it makes whether they are paid extra. They aren't making 6 figures. Somebody has to coach the sports team, or the extracurriculars. Waterpolo coaches, for example, and swimming coaches, have practice both before and after school. They have meets to go to. Plus they have papers to grade, lesson plans to prepare, etc. Often teachers volunteer to sponsor and lead clubs, for which I know they don't get paid extra, at least in our school district.

If their personal time is more important, then they may want to re evaluate their proirities.

If the hobby or part time job of coaching is taking away from their full time job as a teacher, then something may need to change.

Teachers in my district get paid for everything over and above they do.

 

[benbo]

If their personal time is more important, then they may want to re evaluate their proirities.
If the hobby or part time job of coaching is taking away from their full time job as a teacher, then something may need to change.

Teachers in my district get paid for everything over and above they do.

Well, obviously you have some beef with teachers. If you consider the job such a well paid sinecure, I'm not sure what you are doing on an engineering board instead of pursing a teaching credential. Of course most teachers aren't able to spend time spamming a message board while they are at work, unless of course they have exceptional organization skills.

 

[udpolo15]

Your idea of solving an organizational problem is to quit? I don't know what difference it makes whether they are paid extra. They aren't making 6 figures. Somebody has to coach the sports team, or the extracurriculars. Waterpolo coaches, for example, and swimming coaches, have practice both before and after school. They have meets to go to. Plus they have papers to grade, lesson plans to prepare, etc. Often teachers volunteer to sponsor and lead clubs, for which I know they don't get paid extra, at least in our school district.

Props for the waterpolo shout out.

I coached waterpolo at my old high school for a couple of years after I graduated college. I never expected or ask to get paid, but I got about $5k a year for giving about 12 hours a week for 2 months or so (and I wasn't even the head coach). Thanks union!