I was trying to find this statistic the other night with no luck. Does anyone know approximately how many PE's are in the U.S.? More specifically how many are in each discipline? I am trying to figure out how valuable I am to my company and I thought this would be a good starting point.
# of PE's in U.S.?
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G
Guest
Out of curiousity, how do you think a distillation of the # of professional engineers by profession is going to assist you with ascertaining your value to your employer?
JR
JR
Brody
Studying Half Fast
The important statistic is that there are more engineers graduating than new engineering jobs. Add to this all of the H1B visas that allow thousands of foreign engineers to work in this country for discounted wages, and unfortunately we end up being of less value than we wouild like. This is why we don't get paid as much as lawyers, for example. Lawyers don't allow foreign lawyers to come and work at a discounted rate. We engineers don't stick up for ourselves. Soon we'll be working for miminum wage.
Sorry to be a killjoy.
M
Monroe
ODB_PE
I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work
It gets better. I took a little exception to Brody's post because it is so contrary to what you hear, but after some research I realized there was some merit to it. However, I found this letter to the NY Times editor that is probably spot on:
In your Forum piece on military procurement (''The Real Threat to the Arms Industry,'' Jan. 7), Ronald W. Stahlschmidt repeats the tired canard that there is or will be a shortage of adequately trained engineers for defense-related projects.
There is not now, there never has really been and there never will be an engineering ''shortage'' in the true laissez faire sense of the word. Spot shortages, maybe. Real shortages, no. If engineering needs followed true free market principles, during a shortage a competent engineer would be able to name his price and get it. This certainly is not the case. High school students today are not stupid. They know that the road to financial success, independence and respect are much more likely to be down the paths of medicine, law or business than engineering.
JESSE D. SHEINWALD
Seaford, N.Y., Jan. 8
ouch.
Actually it gets worse than that. When I was coming out of college I went to the regional career center to look for work. This was in the early 90's before the internet was what it is now. I found a listing that looked good, went up to the career specialist and asked him how I could apply to the listing. He punched up the listing on his screen and told me don't bother. When I asked why, he told me that it is coded for a foreign national and the only reason it was listed was because it had to be by law.
ODB_PE
I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Wow...just, wow.
maryannette
Wise One
Why are there a lot of foreign engineers and doctors, but not lawyers??!!
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
Pardon my ignorance! Everyone is making some great points. I didn't realize what a big deal some of the issues that have been brought up are. So, maybe this is a dumb question, but if lawyers can dictate who becomes a lawyer, then why can't engineers do the same? I understand that it may be an uphill battle, and maybe impossible. It just doesn't seem right.
Since I started in this industry my bosses have always said how getting your PE is a must...this is really sad! I do know that one of the principals in the firm I work for does not have his PE, so I have often wondered what is the benefit of getting it within my company...I didn't realize that it was a "national" issue.
Please forgive my ignorance on my first question, however from replies I do think it is a needed discussion.
Since I started in this industry my bosses have always said how getting your PE is a must...this is really sad! I do know that one of the principals in the firm I work for does not have his PE, so I have often wondered what is the benefit of getting it within my company...I didn't realize that it was a "national" issue.
Please forgive my ignorance on my first question, however from replies I do think it is a needed discussion.
Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Brody
Studying Half Fast
I don't want to be all negative here, especially since this is Friday. :multiplespotting:
Of course you can be of value to your company, it's just that most of us engineers aren't of sky high value.
It all has to do with the supply of labor.
If there is a labor shortage, wages will increase. In a labor surplus, wages decline. This applies to everybody.
Engineers and IT workers are in the same boat. We've all heard there is a great IT and engineering shortage. But it is just not so. This misconception is perpetuated to keep increasing the number of H1B visas granted each year. H1B visas allow foreign nationals to work in the US in technical positions. They are willing to work for lower wages than Americans, thus pulling down wages for everyone.
Who sets the limits on these visas? It is congress, which is composed mostly of lawyers. They get huge contributions from lobbyists representing big business, who want higher and higer visa numbers. Bill Gates wants to have no limits whatsoever on H1B visas. He would like for everyone to work for Microsoft for minimum wage.
Laborers, carpenters for instance, are affected in a like manner by the huge numbers of illegal aliens in the country. A carpenter friend of mine is making the same wage now that he made 15 years ago, and he is a union member.
Can we have foreign lawyers come to the US and flood the lawyering market so the lawyer fees will be lower? Well, we'll have to convince the lawyers running congress to do so. I wouldn't hold my breath.
In the past five years, inflation has gone up 28%. Tech wages have been flat.
Like ol' deadbeat's reference above says, engineering is a tough sell to high school students.
You can make a decent living as an engineer, but you won't get rich. When you consider that we are the ones who build and run the modern world, our wages are out of balance with other professions.
jfusilloPE
Well-known member
I agree the engineering profession is very under appreciated and under paid, but I disagree on not allowing foreign engineers and scientist to work in this country. One of the main reason that US is the most technological advance country in the world is beacause we allow those smart people to work and live in this country. We are combining their great mind with ours, so we can be the first county to put human on the moon, first to invent the atomic bomb, first one to invent the microprocessor... As for me, I rather to work with a smart engineer from another country than an home grown engineer who can only complain how much he is underpaid.
As for the lawyers, they are way overpaid, and they are the reason we need to pass the PE.
As for the lawyers, they are way overpaid, and they are the reason we need to pass the PE.
I agree that allowing the influx of foreign engineers into the US does keep wages down to a certain extent. But I also agree that our industries and our economy has historically benefited from the diversity of talent. Keep in mind that starting salaries for new engineering grads are still higher than for any other four-year degree. I think that there will always be a niche in or society for technically adept people who also have the grasp of our culture that only comes from growing up in it. Long-term security for American-born engineers lies in the leveraging their advantage in culturally dependant people skills to secure the higher pay of technically oriented managerial and sales positions. That's why I think most engineers are better served long term by an MBA than a masters degree in engineering.
IlPadrino
Well-known member
Does anyone have some real statistics about foreign engineers?
G
Guest
I think you can start to get an idea of the breakdown of numbers at 17-0000 Architecture and Engineering Occupations (Major Group)
That link takes you to the US Dept of Labor employment statistics for Architecture and Engineering. It isn't specific to licensing but they can break down the numbers by state or discipline.
It's a start ..
JR
That link takes you to the US Dept of Labor employment statistics for Architecture and Engineering. It isn't specific to licensing but they can break down the numbers by state or discipline.
It's a start ..
JR
Back about 6 months ago there was a NSPE article on this original topic.
The website no longer has this issue online but it had the TOTAL number of engineers licensed in each state. Of course, there was no way to know if an engineer was licensed in more than one state or not. So, the total number of licensees was inflated.
Back to the more intresting part of this topic, I'm not too worried about foreign engineers in the US. First of all, in order to work here they must have a work permit. Second of all, in order to be licensed here they must be a Perminant Resident. If someone is a PR, what is the real diffrence if they were born outside of the US or not? For what I know they are just like me and must pass the exams that I must pass.
Of course, this logic goes down the toilet when engineer seals are no longer required.
The website no longer has this issue online but it had the TOTAL number of engineers licensed in each state. Of course, there was no way to know if an engineer was licensed in more than one state or not. So, the total number of licensees was inflated.
Back to the more intresting part of this topic, I'm not too worried about foreign engineers in the US. First of all, in order to work here they must have a work permit. Second of all, in order to be licensed here they must be a Perminant Resident. If someone is a PR, what is the real diffrence if they were born outside of the US or not? For what I know they are just like me and must pass the exams that I must pass.
Of course, this logic goes down the toilet when engineer seals are no longer required.
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