New here...need a little advice/help.

[psolis]

First off hello, I'm Phillip and I'm new to this site.

I'm currently a student at ITT here in CO (yes I know...don't add on to my shame, please). I have reasons for attending that most won't understand, and that's fine, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

Long story, short: I enlisted in the Army in 2000 at age 18, became a Combat Engineer (demolitions/landmine warfare/overall shennanigans), got out and lost my way in the world for a while. Reconnected with my wife (friend at the time), got married and had a baby. Quit being a chef, that industry sucks by the way, and enrolled in to ITT for an Electrical Engineering degree using Chapter 13. I did this so that I could get more in living expense so i could pay the mortgage since my wife was laid off when she was 8 months pregnant. That was about 2 years ago, and here I am still attending ITT and unmotivated as all hell. I know going there was mistake number 1, but it was out of necessity. Now that you've heard my pathetic story here's my question: Should I keep going with my degree and at least get my associates with them? I wanted to stop and transfer to a traditional college, and get my BSEE, but i'm 32 years old now and have a family that requires my attention. I've had a hard time finding work even as an intern, which I'm guessing is just because they see the ITT on my resume, but even when I network with people in the industry they don't say anything about it. I'm kind of lost in the world, and honestly trying not to get shot at was incredibly less stressful then the civilian world. I talk to other veterans, but they're all in bullshit jobs just because they lost all motivation after getting out because they couldn't get an opportunity anywhere. Even with degrees. (not saying they didn't get hired because they're veterans, but because they lost motivation to keep going). I don't want to end up like that. I love to tinker, I think differently than most people do, I love math and complex problems, I learn faster than most people overall, but I just am not sure what to do now. Should I just keep going? Or should I just stop and focus on a trade skill and acquire certificates? I don't want to plateau either, that would drive me up the wall being in one position for the rest of my life. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, or any suggestions. Any information that isn't too personal I would be happy to divulge as it would probably help me out. I'm asking all of YOU because you're actually in the industry. So thanks ahead of time, and I look forward to the ITT insults

 

[matt267 PE]

Thank you for your service.

You mentioned focusing on a trade. I've heard that welders are in demand.

 

[Ship Wreck PE]

Hey Phillip

You are really not to old. I started college when I turned 30. Went part time for a while, had wife and kids, transferred to engineering school and now I have my PE.

 

[solomonb]

Phillip-- You asked for advice-- here it is-- I do this for a living-- I am in the consulting business, so think that I know of which I speak. I spent 30 years in the AF, retired, was a college Dean twice and then went into consulting. All is good. OK, here is the simple gameplan-- we can work harder as we get farther down the road.

1. ITT is what it is--no reason to justify your decision-- you had a reason to go-- that is good enough for me. NOW, I would probably finish whatever quarter, semester, class you have and QUIT ITT. Why? Well, reputation of ITT is suspect-- you seem to acknowledge that as well. Get them PAID OFF-- this may be harder than it sounds, however, get it done.

2. Enroll in the local community college, take some CLEP tests to see what you can CLEP out of. Your military training may give you some credit as well-- at least ask. Have the Veterans Affairs folks at the Community College develop a plan of study for you to get your associates degree. Again, you may be a lot closer than you imagine. You may be able to take some course challenge tests to prove that you don't need to take Math 1, Math 2, etc. I don't know what you have taken, however, talk to a guidance counselor at the college-- they are more than willing to help.

3. Ask the community college folks where the associates degree will transfer to get a 4 year degree. Many community colleges have articulation agreements with 4 year schools which basically say that the 4 year school will take all of the community college credits and you don't have to repeat a lot of material for the 3rd time. This is important.

4. Motivation-- only you can develop it. We can and will help, but you have to have it. If not, there is not much we can do. The problem now, as I see it, is that you are in a box and cannot seem to find the top flap. The door, as I see it, is to develop a gameplan, set some goals and go for it, knowing that you are going to fall down along the way. You can get up and get going again-- we have all been there, trust me here.

5. Find some new friends-- hanging around with negative minded, unhappy folks will only pull you along with them. There are some jobs out there-- may not be what you want, however, your little ass will be super motivated to get through with school and get a good job if you have a plan and stick to it.

6. Take a job that brings home some money. It may be a paper route, it may be a chef-- the job may suck-- however, it is a means to an end-- the end being your BSEE, your PE license and doing what you wish to do.

7. Scrimp on spending-- I mean really scrimp. If you are a chef, you can cook-- that solves the eating out challenge. Perhaps you can be a part time caterer, fit it in with your school schedule, perhaps you can work part time for a caterer-- I know, you said the job sucks-- you have experience. Shop at the Goodwill, Salvation Army-- again, the goal is to get through the lull and be a EE.

8. Find a church and go and participate. I don't care what kind, flavor or denomination. If you have not been, go, they will show you what to do!!!!!!! Sometimes, it is peaceful just to be someplace where it is quiet and tranquil.

9. If your wife can work, see if she can help with bringing in some resources. Ideally, if you had cross schedules, you don't need day care. Day care sucks anyway and you really have to make some great money in order to justify the additional costs of day care.

10. YOU CAN DO THIS! Yes, it is overwhelming tonight-- however, you can do this-- one step at a time. Kind of envision being in a field of virgin snow and you are in the middle of the field-- you cannot put the snow back in the footsteps that got you to the middle of the field, however, you can certainly develop the plan to get you out of the field. My point is that what has happened before cannot be undone-- however, you can determine the future.

11. Think hard about what I said. More questions? Just ask.

 

[Road Guy]

Welcome Home 12Bravo.

If you went through a decade + in the army you can finish school.

Although I live in CO also I am new (ga native) to the area so I don't know what smaller schools are out here.

I would try the part time school and working part time route over the going full time and taking school loans and finishing with a bunch of debt if you can. I hope you qualify for some army money for school?

We didn't have a baby at the time but I did a similar route but with less time in the army than you. I was married young and we both worked shitty jobs and went to college and took whatever classes got us to graduation. But it was probably much easier for us without a baby..

It can be done and this group of people here will help.. Lot of good folks here to offer encouragement.

 

[Lomarandil]

The good news... along the lines of Solomon's point 2 and 3, the local community colleges (there are a bunch in metro Denver) are very well integrated with traditional 4-year universities in the area. So that plan is definitely viable.

 

[Peele1]

The advice above is good.

If I were near the 2-year degree, I would finish it. I'd also look for any certification of interest.

Find out what is looked for by looking at jobs and what they want. If the job description looks interesting, then look up the cert.

Jobs want skills. Gain skills by going to school, getting a degree, getting experience, and getting certs/licenses.

 

[psolis]

@Matt: yeah I've had people tell me that trade jobs are in demand right now, and I believe it. I know just from monitoring the market degree's are becoming less needed unless you're in the applied/theoretical field (i.e. engineering fields, physicists, scientists, etc...) I thought about a trade, but even trade schools are ridiculously expensive for the most part. I've always kept that in the back of my head though, and if I decide to venture down that path then I will network and try to pick up an entry level/apprenticeship position. I've been networking with co-workers, as I work in the construction field now, but I'm seeing that as more of a position to "settle" in. I would like to do something I enjoy, so I will try to succeed there before settling. Thank you for the response as well.

@Solomon: That actually helps a lot. Some of what you say I've already implemented to cut back on unnecessary spending (cooking at home and what not), but the motivation is the kicker. It's very hard for me to stay motivated out here. My only drive is my daughter really. I've already finished the most recent quarter/semester/11 week BS course, and I just need to call and let them know I'm going to take a break before I make my final decision. I know my credits won't carry over anywhere here in CO so that's already a kick in the nuts. I like the idea about the community college. I will definitely look in to that a lot more. I know that their credits will transfer out to Metro Denver and CU Boulder. Those would be the 2 colleges closest to me. Metro I hear has a really good EE program, and an obvious first choice. Anyone in CO knows why Boulder sucks...hippies and hipsters my friends...hippies and hipsters . haha. But I can hear the military in your typing...I'm also picturing a knife hand in there as well. Thank you for offering to help more. It's greatly appreciated. I've copied/printed your response as well to keep as a motivator. Hope that's ok?

@Road Guy: thanks for the welcoming. Life is hard for Sapper when there's nothing to blow up anymore. haha. I believe I have a little bit left. Post 9/11 is only good for 36 months, which is shit but oh well, so I was trying to hop on with a company that offers tuition assistance. I know they're out there, just getting in to one is the issue. I would have to do part time, or just my gen eds online. I wouldn't be able to take too much time from working as just living in CO is ridiculously expensive. I'm sure you're finding that out. Even with all the cutting back on spending it's still pricey. I appreciate the help as well. I honestly wasn't expecting anyone to reply, let alone some ex-military types, but I'm glad I did it. It's good to know that someone is somewhere giving me some advice. Sometimes we only know the questions. Thanks again.

@Lomarandil: this is true about the colleges. I know even the schools in Boulder and I think even CSU from Ft. Collins makes themselves available on the Auraria campus in Denver for certain classes. I know CU does for sure. Thanks for the reply.

@Peele: I believe i have just over a year left (school total, not including breaks and time in between courses) which is my main issue with finishing this school at least. That's why I was going to take some time off for a bit before I made my final decision. Nobody will accept a degree as a lateral unless it's a BSEE from ITT. That's really the only way, and this is just for my Associates. I planned on getting my BSEE, but I would want an ABET accredited university. The whole argument basis being engineering tech degree vs engineering degree. Which is why ITT is laughable. I know a lot of companies are looking for certifications, which I was so close to getting my NASA Soldering certification through NorthrupGrummam, but I would have had to quit school as it was 3rd shift. Meaning I would have been stuck in the same position for 2 years before having been able to recommend a transfer/promotion to the engineering department. i didn't like the fact I wouldn't be able to finish school for something that got me the position in the first place. That just seemed half-assed to me at the time. What kind of certs/licenses would I be looking for in the EE field? Thanks for your reply as well.

To everybody: Thanks again for taking the time out to reply to my little situation. I really appreciate all the feedback, and suggestions, and I'm taking everything everybody said here to heart. I was thinking of permanently joining this community, and I think I will. I look forward to many more conversations with all you guys. Thanks again, and if you're following this thread then I will keep you guys updated as I'm sure I'll have more questions along the lines.

 

[solomonb]

Phillip-- thanks for the comments. I am not sure what you mean when you say, "I can hear the military in your typing???"-- don't know what means. I have been in senior leadership for a LONG time and know leadership very well. I want you to succeed-- and you can-- however, the path that you envision and the path that we might suggest may be divergent and different. The bottom line is that we may have travelled further down the road and know where the potholes are located-- we probably stepped in them and do NOT want you to have the same experience.

A simple analogy that I used many time with troops is the following-- "If I tell you that the stove is hot, nobody else needs to touch it to find out"--WHY? I already have a burned hand-- we don't need 2 burned hands.

You can do this-- your daughter is your motivation-- she will be proud every day that her daddy comes home and is one step closer to getting his degree-- that I PROMISE. I did not say that this was going to be easy, but you can do it.

Go for it.

 

[vineyardmh]

Phillip - first - thanks for your service. It sounds like you are looking for options - and the one thing I would suggest is to 'think outside the box." If you were in the Puget Sound area - I would suggest you consider applying for a job at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (PSNS). We are desperately in need of good electrical workers, and someone with your background would have no problem getting hired on ...probably through the Apprentice program...and the initial pay might be a little low at the beginning ....BUT - once in the door - the sky is the limit!

PSNS (and almost any federal government job) - you can be considered an Engineer with an engineering degree from an accredited college, but there are plenty of alternatives also. IF you take and pass the FE - even without a degree, you can apply for engineering jobs. We have workers who go from being Wage Grade workers (entry through journeyman level workers...WG pay scale) - to Engineering Technicians (we brought over 2 WGs as ETs over the past 4 years in my work area). As an ET, it is hard to go past GS-12 (top pay is about $96K if at Step 10)...but with the FE - it is possible to move beyond that. Most federal work places do provide for some tuition reimbursement programs to help workers get more schooling.

The Feds usually don't require PEs for most jobs, but they do encourage those that want to pursue the PE to do so. PSNS provides a $700 bonus to those that pass the exam. (Nothing offered for the FE.) Not a lot of money ....but anything is better than nothing! So - my recommendation is to check around and see if there might be any similar opportunities out where you are. Granted, your ITT schooling might be disparaged by some, but if you try to get in at the 'ground level' - with your military experience and schooling, you would probably be a much better entry level worker than the average high school graduate or 2 year college degree worker...and once you get started, you then aggressively pursue your own 'self-improvement program' that has you gettting an engineering degree, passing the FE, and even getting your PE. Yes - you might end up leaving ITT without anything...but if you can get a job that provides a half-way decent salary, and growth potential...and will give tuition support - it might be a good career move.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Dark Knight]

Psolis,

If you want to talk about a record time to become an engineer, took me 20 years. How about that?

I am an EE and finished my degree studying part time and working full time. It was a stop and go thing due to several factors that am not going to mention. But what I want to tell you, never is too late. It is not a shame to fall, the shame is to stay down. At the end of the day, once you have your degree, it does not matter how long it took or how old are you at the moment. Keep going and do not look back, keep looking forward to the goal.