Is it true that you don't have to be an engineer in some states to obtain a PE?

[GT ME]

I thought NCEES requires an engineering degree from an accredited school.

Considering some of the PE designations are a joke in that they're not engineering at all, I wouldn't be surprised to hear some states don't require an engineering degree from an accredited school.

:smileyballs:

 

[Dark Knight]

I thought NCEES requires an engineering degree from an accredited school.
Considering some of the PE designations are a joke in that they're not engineering at all, I wouldn't be surprised to hear some states don't require an engineering degree from an accredited school.

:smileyballs:

WGASA??????????

 

[Dexman1349]

Yeah you can get a CO PE with 12 years of experience and having passed both the FE and the PE exams.

http://www.dora.state.co.us/aes/licensing/...ments-pepls.htm

 

[mech engineer]

Yeah you can get a CO PE with 12 years of experience and having passed both the FE and the PE exams.
http://www.dora.state.co.us/aes/licensing/...ments-pepls.htm

There is a similar rule in NY - if you have enough years of experience you don't even have to graduate from a kindergarden. You document your years of experience, get your references, and you are good to go... :Locolaugh:

 

[kevo_55]

I think you can do this in GA as well.

If you do happen to get a PE w/o an engineering degree there would be no way for you to get comity with another state. (Unless it's either GA or NY....)

 

[Sschell]

I believe in CA the requirement is written that you need X number of years experience to take the test, a 4 year non-accredited degree counts for Y of those years and an accredited degree counts for Z of those years... I don't remember with out looking what the actual X,Y and Z values are.

 

[Dexman1349]

I believe in CA the requirement is written that you need X number of years experience to take the test, a 4 year non-accredited degree counts for Y of those years and an accredited degree counts for Z of those years... I don't remember with out looking what the actual X,Y and Z values are.

I think that's pretty standard. That's how it's written in the CO laws.

As far as getting your license transferred to other states once you obtain it without a degree, you would need to meet that particular state's requirements for an "experience only" license. I believe most states have this available as a way to grandfather in alot of engineers back before there were alot of engineering college programs.

 

[Sschell]

here's a question:

can you be an engineer with out a degree?

4 year degree?

2 year degree?

ass load of expierence?

what defines one as an engineer?

 

[mech engineer]

here's a question:
can you be an engineer with out a degree?

4 year degree?

2 year degree?

ass load of expierence?

what defines one as an engineer?

Technically, if you have a license from any state you can legally call yourself an engineer in that state - regardless of your educational background. However, when you apply for a license in another state based on the lisence you already have there are two ways to do it:

1. Apply directly by filling out the application specific to that state and showing that you meet all the requirements. In this case, if the state allows to obtain the 'experience only' license you are fine and just document that experience

2. Creacting an NCEES record which is accepted universally by almost all the state

Now, to create an NCEES record one MUST have an ABET college degree, otherwise the record cannot be established. Therefore, for 'experience only' folks the path thru the NCEES record is blocked. And at the same time some states mandate to all the applicants to establish an NCEES record as a part of the application process (I know KY does it), so some states will not except 'experience only applications' at all.

 

[Tark62]

In California, you can qualify for the PE exam with six years of acceptable work experience, with or without an engineering degree. The number of people who actually qualify as PEs without engineering degrees is quite small, but I've met two people who have done it. One had a 2-year degree in Engineering Technology, and one was a PhD scientist. They both seemed capable of handling the engineering issues that came their way.

A California PE without an engineering degree would have trouble getting licensed by reciprocity in other states. Most states have tougher education requirements, in accordance with the NCEES "Model Law".

In California, you can't use the regulated title of "civil engineer" unless you are a Civil PE. So a licensed Civil PE (even without an engineering degree) can claim the title of "civil engineer", but an unlicensed person (even with an accredited civil degree) cannot. Under California law, the PE trumps the degree as a professional qualification.

Some states, including California, still allow people to qualify for the State Bar Exam by "apprenticeship" (i.e., work experience), without ever going to law school. So this route is not unique to engineering. One of the current State Supreme Court Justices in Vermont qualified for the Bar by work experience, and never attended law school.

 

[Road Guy]

Ga does somethig similar, I know of one person who after being out of school for 20+ years took the EIT & PE and passed them. I really dont know why Georgia allows it, there was a move to change it in the legislature a few years ago but the bill got killed. I am sure some politician had a relative who dropped out of college and wants to be able to sit for the exam or something.

Maybe we can be like nurses where you can be an RN and not have a bachelor’s degree, all the ones that do refer to themselves as RN-BSN. So maybe we can have PE-BCE on our cards to distinguish ourselves from those who don’t have one, then the people with masters degree’s will want to do the same (note the heavy intended sarcasm)

All in all you can be a PE and still be a dumbass ( I know several) so I dont know how big a deal it truly is to be honest. .02

 

[NCcarguy]

I have heard RUMORS that you can become a PE in NC with 20 years of experience! and you don't have to take the EI exam first!

I guess I understand why some would find this as a negative, but honestly, is there something that you learn in a class for 4 years that you can't learn in 20 years of experience.

I had to take the same test that everyone else took, I had to study for the same material, I have to be able to talk about the same things, so even though I would never try to cheapen the education that most of you got, I don't know if it's a magic formula for engineering intelligence.

I also would tell any kid growing up today....DO NOT try to do what I did! Honestly, It was a HELL that I lived for almost 5 years.....

 

[sehad]

All getting a PE does is say that you can study and pass a test. Even though it is a hard test. Some people can take a book and teach themselves how to do something. I mean, whate exactly do you do in college? You get a book and a professor teaches you how to read and apply the book. That simple. Is there any design that we do that is simply out of our heads? No, everything is by a code or by means of experience. I disagree with Road Guy somewhat. I don't think anyone can be a dumbass and get a PE, however....one that has the common sense of a turnip can get a PE and be about as useful as one.

It's like this to me. Getting a PE means you're smart and can pass a test. Being an effective PE means being able to apply your knowledge and skills in the real world for the better. I know a lot that cannot do the latter.

In La, you can get a PE without schooling but the experience requirement is pretty tough. Plus you have to get 3 registered PEs to write a letter saying that you are competent in engineering and then it goes before the board for their review. It's really not that easy and I can't think of anyone that has ever done it.

Oh, several years ago in La they made a deal that someone with so many years of construction experience could by a Project Engineer's license for $1. Talk about a slap in the face!

I guess I understand why some would find this as a negative, but honestly, is there something that you learn in a class for 4 years that you can't learn in 20 years of experience.

I guess getting taught by someone that knows in detail everything that you will encounter compared to someone that has learned by mistakes that they have made or of others is the main difference I see. College taught me to be proactive in decisions and to always look for problems before they come up and how to get the resources to do so. Experience(just my opinion) teaches you how to be reactive and fix problems when they occur. Both get the final results wanted, the second can be more costly to the owner.

It's one thing to know how to do something, it's another thing totally to know why. As long as someone that has the experience has been taught by an engineer, I see no problem with it. Would I feel cheated somewhat that I had to get the schooling and they didn't? Probably, but in the end it's how effective you are that makes you a good engineer, not how much useless crap you know.

 

[IlPadrino]

All getting a PE does is say that you can study and pass a test.

Bubkus! A PE requires a balance of education, experience, and exam. Some states choose to allow experience to overcome shortages in education or exam. By and far, most people registered are the traditional balance (ABET-accredited education, 4 years of experience (give or take a few years), and FE/EIT and PE exam.

 

[Road Guy]

if you think about it, how many of our proffessors actually had any real experience outside of academia?

Most of mine were phd's who had probably done everything in the lab but had no "real" experience. We should beg the question why does ncees (or our state boards) allow professors to use teaching experience as experience and allow them to sit for the exam?

 

[Dexman1349]

if you think about it, how many of our proffessors actually had any real experience outside of academia?
Most of mine were phd's who had probably done everything in the lab but had no "real" experience. We should beg the question why does ncees (or our state boards) allow professors to use teaching experience as experience and allow them to sit for the exam?

Because the way the CO board sees it, a PE is a measure of competence. You would hope that your professors knew at least a little about what they were teaching (or at least be able to pick it up while they taught).

When the board reviews your application, they look at several things (in order of importance):

1)Quantity and quality of experience (CO looks especially for an "increasing level of responsibilty and engineering duties" So if you've done nothing but quantity take-offs for 10 years they won't take your application seriously and may throw out some or all of the experience)

2)How your references reflect on your experience (you can have months / years thrown out because your reference's write-up may not agree with yours)

3a)The schooling you received (bachelors vs masters vs phd, ABET accrediation, years attended)

3b)And the exams. Obviously the EIT -> PE route is the quickest, but you can become a PE without either depending on the rest of your application.

I think the real measure of an engineer should be his (or her) ethics. Only you know what your expertise is in so you should practice accordinly. In CO a PE is identical for all engineers (Mechanicals, electricals, structurals, environmentals, etc) so technically I could stamp the plans for a Nuclear power plant and disposal site if I wanted. I have no idea what is requiered to do it, so I won't. I would certainly hope that a professor who has never set foot outside of academia with a PE would not be stamping those same powerplant plans if he teaches water resources.

 

[GT ME]

I asked the question "why does NCEES ask PE candidates before taking the PE exam what school he/she graduates from" and was told that PE designations such as EE, ChE, ME, & CE require accredited degrees to be eligible to take the exam, regardless of whether state boards allow you to do so.

 

[Mike in Gastonia]

I asked the question "why does NCEES ask PE candidates before taking the PE exam what school he/she graduates from" and was told that PE designations such as EE, ChE, ME, & CE require accredited degrees to be eligible to take the exam, regardless of whether state boards allow you to do so.

To whom (or who - I always get those confused) did you ask?

 

[GT ME]

It was either ELSES or NCEES -- don't remember.

To whom (or who - I always get those confused) did you ask?

 

[Sschell]

In Mechanical I know several people who's job title is Engineer (even Chief Engineer) or who call themselves engineers who have no degree, or a 2 year degree (and def. no PE)