Interview tests

[Audi Driver P.E.]

Ok, I guess I'd like to hear some opinions on this.  I am currently gainfully employed and pretty happy with my present position.  I had a recruiter who is a friend of mine call me up and ask me if I was interested in a new opportunity with a start up.  Looks like there is some opportunity for growth in the position beyond where I am now, so I told her I would consider it and I had a few other questions.  In her follow up e-mail she mentions a "catch" that the scientist who is running the start up has a "closed book ME technical challenge" that apparently is difficult to pass.  Personally, I don't usually back down from that sort of challenge recreationally, but jumping through these kinds of hoops for an interview seems pretty silly to me and it makes me wonder about what it would be like to work with this individual.  I've been asked all manner of technical questions during interviews, anything from "how would you count the number of windows in NYC" to "explain for me a stress-strain diagram" and I don't usually have a problem answering them.  This just seems over the top to me.

I'm inclined to reply back that I am open to answering probing questions, but that I'm really not interested in taking some closed book test.  Am I being picky/foolish/etc?  What would you do?

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Each of my last 4 job interviews has included a test.  I was able to talk my way out of one of them because it was a lateral move.  All 4 were with my current employer, but were position changes/promotions.

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

I personally frown on closed book exams as part of the interview process.  I had one interview where they had a test on gear design.  Guess what - the position had nothing to do with gear design, in fact the position wasn't responsible for design engineering.  

In your case, I would probably do exactly as you suggested - politely respond that you are not interested in taking a written exam but will be more than willing to address that in a verbal interview.

 

[Supe]

IMO, if a place is so picky with a specific technical area that they need to quiz you on it as opposed to figuring out your abilities based on previous work experience and credentials, then it's probably someplace where you're going to get pigeon-holed in a hurry.  

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

<--- Currently pigeon-holed...

 

[Audi Driver P.E.]

I guess there is one other thing I want to find out, too and that is how the test is to be conducted.  As a person who has been responsible for hiring others before, I'm always more interested in how quickly someone can adapt and learn when they don't know things than what they might be able to answer on some test, so I just don't understand why someone would want to make this a criterion for hire.

 

[Road Guy]

Is this for a private or government job?

 

[Audi Driver P.E.]

Is this for a private or government job?

Private sector.

 

[Road Guy]

If it's private sector I'd be a little less worried about it to be honest, government has no room to be subjective on these types of test

When I was in government hiring people, I always wished I could give some type of basic test to everyone we hired because it seem like even people that have degrees & licenses didn't always know what the fuck they were doing. But I was told that practice would be discriminatory

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

The thing I dislike about closed book engineering tests is that engineering is not a closed-book profession. We are not taught to memorize things, but rather where to find and how to apply them. With experience, you do tend to remember the stuff you use more regularly, but because regulations vary with client/jurisdiction/site conditions it's impossible to remember it all (especially in the civil development world). 

 

[snickerd3]

If it's private sector I'd be a little less worried about it to be honest, government has no room to be subjective on these types of test

When I was in government hiring people, I always wished I could give some type of basic test to everyone we hired because it seem like even people that have degrees & licenses didn't always know what the fuck they were doing. But I was told that practice would be discriminatory

really, I had to submit a writing test. after my interview with peoples they sat me down at a desk with paper and said here you have 30 minutes write something to answer the following question.  I don't remember what the topic was, nothing technical, but I had to submit a writting sample for my state government employment

 

[Road Guy]

In the south anything can be seen as discriminatory! Unless its non Caucasians doing the hiring

For engineers I always wanted to have a simple test, like measure this one plan sheet and tell me how many tons of asphalt there are. Things that say anyone serving as a PM for  local or state DOT should be able to do. Nothing tricky, just "is this person a dumb ass or not"

I remember one time having to show someone (with supposedly 15 years experience) how to do a drainage profile for a run of pipe by hand. Something pretty much anyone in transportation should be able to do

 

[Dleg]

We gave tests to all the drafters and engineering applicants at my last utility, and the guy who started the practice was a retired fed who said he did it all the time for the fed agency he worked for.  

I'd take the test, if for nothing else than the curiosity of it.  The guy might turn out to be a really interesting eccentric who's a blast to work for.  Or he could be a complete pain in the ass, but you might as well try.  

 

[mudpuppy]

When I was in government hiring people, I always wished I could give some type of basic test to everyone we hired because it seem like even people that have degrees & licenses didn't always know what the fuck they were doing. But I was told that practice would be discriminatory

Same thing here; we're not allowed to give tests to interviewees.

\

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

That's interesting RG.  I've applied to a couple State agencies that had a written test as part of their pre-interview process.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I work at a government agency and we do written tests to NOT be discriminatory.

It's only discrimination if you don't test EVERYONE.  The hiring manager basically "pre-screens" the applications, then tests everyone who meets the criteria set forth in the job description.  The test scores dictate who then gets an interview. 

 

[Road Guy]

I dont know many agencies in the south that do tests. When i first worked at GA DOT they gave simple math tests to inspectors. But that practice was done away with in the late 90's.

Simply put there are a lot of people in the South who look for any opportunity to claim discrimination. Maybe rightly so based on history. But i pitched the idea of testing engineering candidates to our county manager(he was black) after we had some bad hires and his response was "i don't want to be in the news"

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

Dex that's precisely how it worked at this place.  

RG that blows.  You're basically stuck with whoever makes it through the process until you can 'promote' them out of your department?

 

[Road Guy]

Luckily we had a 12 month probationary period in which we could "not retain them". But it seemed we were getting a lot of bums...(alot with PE's). Probably more regarding to work ethic versus actual "smarts".

So we were always having to meet with the County MAnager before we let people know they were getting let go.

And it was pretty even among all ethnic groups white, black and asian. Whom we had to fire- and it should be pointed out most of the hires were not mine but i moved around a good bit and got stuck with someone else's dirty work (bad hires). I think alot of people just didn't check references or want to see red flags

Dealing with personnel issues was worse than dealing with actual politicians and really wears you down..

 

[jeb6294]

This thing has been floating around my computer for years so I can't remember where it came from.  According to the description, it's a test given in Japan to IT applicants.  I solved it so it is possible...just in case I added a tab with the solution on it.

View attachment IQ Test.xls