FE/PE Exam Eligibility

[duct_tape_ftw]

Hi there,

Apologies if this has been asked already but I couldn't find any posts asking the exact same thing. I've got a few questions regarding the FE and PE exams, for anyone familiar with those subjects.

A little bit of background first: I'm a mechanical engineer with a bachelor's degree and have about 9 years of working experience between internships/coops and jobs afterwards. About 2 years ago, I quit my job and started a solo freelancing business. The overwhelming majority of the work I do is 3D CAD modeling, usually doing product design work/DFM/DFA for companies and sometimes individuals (being careful to avoid projects where bad design would cause a safety hazard). Work with the companies is generally reviewed with a team of other design and manufacturing engineers. I don't market myself as a PE and avoid any FEA work, for whatever that's worth. Being that most of my experience was in manufacturing environments, I've never worked directly under an actual PE but I have about 3 years of work experience under a metallurgist with a master's degree, who might be considered comparable to a PE. I have not taken the FE or PE exam as of yet.

Alright, so my questions are these:

1.) If I have no plans to work a "normal" job again where I would have the opportunity to work under a PE, is there any point to me even taking the FE/PE exams? I would love to pass the tests and I'm confident that I could with enough studying, but I'm unsure if PE status is even a possibility for me due to the work/experience requirements and the "clock not starting" until after I pass the FE exam. It might be possible for me to move to a different state if needed

2.) Would applying to take the FE/PE have the potential to open me up to liability when I list my job history? That history including the recent freelance job where I do some design work without having PE status. Part of me is worried that I could open myself up to potential legal trouble by even trying to take these tests. I've tried to keep everything as above board as possible but that being said, I'm not sure how favorable any design work done without a PE license would look

3.) Can I apply for E/O insurance without being a PE?

Thanks in advance! Please feel free to be brutally honest. These questions have been bugging me for awhile, so any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[youngmotivatedengineer]

To be honest, it sounds like you may already opening yourself up to legal troubles. CAD drafting wouldn't be a problem,  but any kind of design work is usually left for licensed design professionals.  You could get violation notice from the licensing board. 

 

[duct_tape_ftw]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the honesty. I've been trying to move towards working exclusively with companies as a subcontractor rather than working with individual clients, since it sounded like a license wasn't needed when working with companies that have other engineers reviewing work. I'm not 100% sure on that but I was under the impression working as a subcontractor for a company is essentially the same as working for a company as an employee, at least in terms of design work legality.

I'm usually doing extensive prototyping with every client regardless but it sounds like it may be best to hold off on applying to take the FE until I'm only doing work with companies and have finished up all the contracts with individual clients

 

[utilityeng]

Why hold off on taking the FE? I’d get that out of the way as soon as possible if you plan on taking the PE.

 

[duct_tape_ftw]

Thanks for the reply. I guess that's what I'm still unsure of - for one, if I'd eventually be eligible to take the PE exam (since I won't have the opportunity to work under a licensed PE after passing the FE exam), and two, if I can get to the point where I'm working as a subcontractor with companies exclusively and not with individual clients, if the act of applying to take the exam would still open me up to potential legal troubles. If I don't meet the work requirements to take the PE exam, there wouldn't be much point in taking either one. But if I'm OK on both those fronts, I agree, the sooner the better with the FE exam

 

[utilityeng]

Thanks for the reply. I guess that's what I'm still unsure of - for one, if I'd eventually be eligible to take the PE exam (since I won't have the opportunity to work under a licensed PE after passing the FE exam), and two, if I can get to the point where I'm working as a subcontractor with companies exclusively and not with individual clients, if the act of applying to take the exam would still open me up to potential legal troubles. If I don't meet the work requirements to take the PE exam, there wouldn't be much point in taking either one. But if I'm OK on both those fronts, I agree, the sooner the better with the FE exam

I get your reasoning. If it were me though, I'd go ahead and get the FE out of the way, regardless of the future probability of getting the PE. If anything, once you obtain your FE, that can serve as an impetus to go the extra mile (or ten) to get your PE. It will be a much easier decision to know you only have one test to tackle vs. two. Some people though may prefer to take them back to back since a lot of the info will be fresh and transferable. Whatever works.

Maybe you already have, but you need to check your state's application requirements. In Florida you only need a "practicing engineer" to vouch for your work experience on the application, and they don't have to be your supervisor/manager, just someone who worked with you and was in a position to verify the quality and performance of your work. However, your personal references (3 total) must be PEs to sit for the test in Florida.

I sat for the FE my junior year, never thinking in a million years I'd have a need for or want a PE. Man it felt great getting my pass notification knowing that was the last certification test I'd ever take in my life. Oh how wrong I was! I graduated mechanical too, and PEs just aren't prevalent in the world of manufacturing/component design. After being in my field of aircraft component design for 6 years, I wanted to better my career by obtaining my PE, but like you, I didn't work with enough PEs to satisfy the initial application requirements (we only had one PE at my employer). I also knew being licensed wouldn't help me if advance if I stayed in my particular field, since Florida statutes don't require a PE if you're a full time employee of a corporation and your practice of engineering is limited to the design or fabrication of manufactured products and the servicing of those products.

However, for someone doing mechanical design/consulting work who isn't under the protective umbrella of a company, I would think being licensed is an absolute must. It seems as if that's the road you're going down at this particular moment.

My advice would be to get in with a company whom you know employs multiple PEs that you would have ready access to. That's what I did, but I had to switch fields into Civil to do so. That gave me immediate access to three more PE's, and just 6 months after switching jobs, I was able to apply for my PE with the required sign-offs.

I'd be really careful about doing freelance design work for companies without a license. Granted, fines are much more prevalent in the field of Civil, but all one needs to do is search the disciplinary section of their state board's website to see that the fines for practicing without a license can be really stiff.

 

[duct_tape_ftw]

Hi utilityeng,

Thanks for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. You pretty much hit the nail on the head there - I'm in a similar situation where I just haven't had the chance to work for any PE's during my career (like you mentioned, seems like some manufacturing fields have that issue). I'm in PA, so I believe the requirements were that you had to pass the FE, wait a minimum of 4 years (regardless of how much experience you had prior to passing) , and then have worked directly under a PE or equivalent for 4 years. It sounded like Michigan or Indiana had much more relaxed rules regarding experience and when the exams could be taken, so I was briefly considering moving over there and working for a few years.

I appreciate the advice - sounds like I should seriously consider finding a new gig until I can get my license. I'm generally being as careful as I can with designing parts. Most of these are all harmless plastic components, so it's a far cry from designing a bridge or anything with a potential safety hazard, but it would certainly give me more peace of mind to be doing the work with a license.