What prep materials and references are important?

Katiebug · May 1, 2009

OK, I'm past the EIT and am trying to slowly collect the references and prep materials I'll need for the PE. I am eligible to sit for the PE any time now due to the fact that I have 6 years of engineering work experience. The earliest I'd attempt the exam is April 2010, possibly even further out (into 2011 or later) depending on a few things. I'm in grad school now for mechanical engineering, but I doubt much of my coursework will serve as adequate test preparation, so I'm starting way, way early in studying. My concentration in school is on solid mechanics, not HVAC or Fluids/Thermo. Machine design is primarily what I do at work (among many other things). I plan to take a prep course immediately before whenever I take the exam.

So bottom line - I have a while but I'd like to start purchasing the books that I'll need and start slowly working through the material.

I know I need the MERM. That's a no-brainer, and first on my list. What else do I need? All three 6 Minute Solutions? Are there practice problems other than Lindeburg's book?

What about the NCEES sample questions? Is the consensus that they're reasonably representative of the exam questions in difficulty? I've read many complaints about the Lindeburg sample exam being way harder than the actual test. I will probably get it, but I want to have an idea of what the questions realistically are like.

For additional reference books I have all of my college texts for Fluids and Thermo. I have nothing for HVAC since I didn't take a course in it. I also have my Machine Design text (Deutschman/Michaels/Wilson, not Shigley) as well as a copy of Machinery's Handbook. Everyone at work has Shigley but I've never looked at it to see if I prefer it over the text I have. I don't want to buy any new texts or similar references right now, until I figure out what I really need and what can be handled with the MERM.

Sschell · May 1, 2009

stick to what you're familiar with... if you find a hole while studying, address it.

I would recommend steam and gas tables so you don't have to interpolate.

bph · May 1, 2009

I have looked into this closely and here is what I think you need for machine design depth;

1. MERM

2. Shingley's

3. Mark's

4. Optional; machinery's handbook.

Why?

Simple, the NCEES PE ME sample tests #1 and #2 reference only two texts in the machine design solutions sections, Shingley's and Mark's, that it, none other, and it references both several times.

I just took the PE in machine design depth, and I didn't use anything but the MERM (actually, one question required Mark's or similar, but I had that equation on my formula sheet, so didn't need Mark's).

Also, HVAC is fairly straight forward, MERM is ok, and some recommend the Carrier manual, which is likely very good and very simple. I Definitely would get an ASHRAE Psyc chart #1 in 11" x 17", easier than using the small chart in the MERM.

I thought the sample questions from the MERM were quite poor. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options that I know about. I would certainly highly recommend both NCEES practice exams, and to a lesser extent the six minute solutions and to an even lesser extent the MERM practice problems (the example problems in the MERM test are generally good). If you have time, work everything. Pay VERY close attention to the NCEES % breakdown of problem type, this will help you focus on the correct subjects.

Good luck,

BPH

Kephart P.E. · May 1, 2009

bph said:
I have looked into this closely and here is what I think you need for machine design depth;1. MERM

2. Shingley's

3. Mark's

4. Optional; machinery's handbook.

Why?

Simple, the NCEES PE ME sample tests #1 and #2 reference only two texts in the machine design solutions sections, Shingley's and Mark's, that it, none other, and it references both several times.

I just took the PE in machine design depth, and I didn't use anything but the MERM (actually, one question required Mark's or similar, but I had that equation on my formula sheet, so didn't need Mark's).

Also, HVAC is fairly straight forward, MERM is ok, and some recommend the Carrier manual, which is likely very good and very simple. I Definitely would get an ASHRAE Psyc chart #1 in 11" x 17", easier than using the small chart in the MERM.

I thought the sample questions from the MERM were quite poor. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options that I know about. I would certainly highly recommend both NCEES practice exams, and to a lesser extent the six minute solutions and to an even lesser extent the MERM practice problems (the example problems in the MERM test are generally good). If you have time, work everything. Pay VERY close attention to the NCEES % breakdown of problem type, this will help you focus on the correct subjects.

Good luck,

BPH

I agree MERM sample Exam sucks, get the NCEES Sample Exam.

Plus, have something that has lots of material properties, I didn't take the Mach. Design Depth, but some of the questions can as you for properties outside of just steel and aluminum.

Sschell · May 1, 2009

D. Kephart said:
I agree MERM sample Exam sucks, get the NCEES Sample Exam.

do both... the PPI one is good practice, just don't get discouraged by your score, the NCEES one is more realistic.

D. Kephart said:
Plus, have something that has lots of material properties, I didn't take the Mach. Design Depth, but some of the questions can as you for properties outside of just steel and aluminum.

Shigley/mach. handbook/marks will more than cover this

Marks is really only handy for those hail mary questions... where there is no possible way you would know it... and after you have answered all the other questions on the test you come back to that one and dig thru marks to find the answer.

bph · May 1, 2009

dude said:
Marks is really only handy for those hail mary questions... where there is no possible way you would know it... and after you have answered all the other questions on the test you come back to that one and dig thru marks to find the answer.

Generally true, but I did find one answer during the NCEES practice test in Mark's (also in Shingley's) but not in MERM. It was a bearing life question. It is hard to pull a strange equation out of a book and apply it correctly, but still worth the effort.

BPH

MikeR · May 1, 2009

bph said:
I have looked into this closely and here is what I think you need for machine design depth;1. MERM

2. Shingley's

3. Mark's

4. Optional; machinery's handbook.

Why?

Simple, the NCEES PE ME sample tests #1 and #2 reference only two texts in the machine design solutions sections, Shingley's and Mark's, that it, none other, and it references both several times.

I just took the PE in machine design depth, and I didn't use anything but the MERM (actually, one question required Mark's or similar, but I had that equation on my formula sheet, so didn't need Mark's).

Also, HVAC is fairly straight forward, MERM is ok, and some recommend the Carrier manual, which is likely very good and very simple. I Definitely would get an ASHRAE Psyc chart #1 in 11" x 17", easier than using the small chart in the MERM.

I thought the sample questions from the MERM were quite poor. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options that I know about. I would certainly highly recommend both NCEES practice exams, and to a lesser extent the six minute solutions and to an even lesser extent the MERM practice problems (the example problems in the MERM test are generally good). If you have time, work everything. Pay VERY close attention to the NCEES % breakdown of problem type, this will help you focus on the correct subjects.

Good luck,

BPH

I agree with BPH. I just did the Machine Design exam too. I only used the MERM. I had Shigley with me but did not use it. The Lindeburg practice problems are based on the old essay type exam questions and was not too useful. If you have the time I suggest that you do these problems. To prepare for the exam you need 3-4 months and the following books are more than enough for the morning and MD section.

1. MERM

2. NCEES Sample exam

3. Six minute solutions (MD)

4. Shigley as a reference (but if you are have another text that you are familier with use it)

This all you need. Maybe Mark's for a single Hail Mary type question.

Good Luck,

Mike.

Katiebug · May 2, 2009

Is the MERM enough to get through the AM's HVAC and Thermo/Fluids questions, or should I get all three of the 6 min. solutions?

HVAC worries me, since I know precisely nothing about it aside from a little bit in my applied thermo class. I'll look for the ASHRAE chart. The "Carrier manual" - is that Carrier as in the company that makes air conditioners?

Thermo and fluids are OK - I can do them, but I don't like them (if that makes sense). Most of what I do at work is closest to machine design, with a very healthy dose of materials engineering thrown in there. I'm open to switching the PM module if I find that the thermo/fluids type of questions are easier for me.

My MERM arrives on Tuesday. I'm going to pick up the NCEES sample exam right away as well. I'd like to start working through the material after my summer class is done in mid-June...that gives me a few months until my fall semester at school starts up, and I think once I review what information is needed for the exam I can make a better decision on when to try to attempt it. If it's not going too badly, then maybe I'll plan to give the exam a shot next April and plan to take spring semester off from school for the review class. If I'm completely lost, I'll probably hold off on prepping for the PE until I'm done with grad school (currently slated for 2011).

I keep telling myself that I have 9 years and 9 months left on my EIT - I have more time than many to pass the PE exam, since the clock started 5+ years into my career rather than right at the beginning. I don't want to rush into this.

bph · May 2, 2009

Katiebug said:
Is the MERM enough to get through the AM's HVAC and Thermo/Fluids questions, or should I get all three of the 6 min. solutions?
HVAC worries me, since I know precisely nothing about it aside from a little bit in my applied thermo class. I'll look for the ASHRAE chart. The "Carrier manual" - is that Carrier as in the company that makes air conditioners?

You can get the ASHRAE chart from ashrae.org bookstore at http://www.ashrae.org/publications/page/1282

I think you only need the #1 chart in English units, but I purchased the complete set of 5. You must know how to use this chart!

I think the MERM is all you need for the HVAC, fluids and thermo AM sections. However, I think the MERM is complex and confusion for some of this stuff, and would be worth looking at some simplified stuff from Carrier (the ac company) or just on the web. Another poster gave 3 equations to remember;

Air Flow: 4.5*CFM*deltaH=Total Btuh (H=enthalpy)

Air Flow: 1.08*CFM*deltaT=Sensible Btuh

Water Flow: 500*GPM*deltaT=Btuh

These equations are in the MERM, but displayed in a less clear manner. You will see these equations in the NCEES sample exam solutions.

The MERM practice problems are mostly too complex for the HVAC and fluids AM sections. The NCEES exams are best (both exams) but not nearly enough problems, so you should get six minute solutions and maybe some other stuff that is similar. The PE AM exam in not interested in lots of number crunching, what they are testing for is understanding fundamentals and applications of knowledge, they set up problems to see if you can understand what is going on, sometimes they give non-standard type problems to see if you are just plugging and chugging, or if you understand the actual concepts and theory. So, to summarize, you need to understand the fundaments very, very well, but you don't need to do long drawn out problems, as are in the MERM practice problems manual.

Good luck,

BPH

MikeR · May 2, 2009

Katiebug said:
Is the MERM enough to get through the AM's HVAC and Thermo/Fluids questions, or should I get all three of the 6 min. solutions?
HVAC worries me, since I know precisely nothing about it aside from a little bit in my applied thermo class. I'll look for the ASHRAE chart. The "Carrier manual" - is that Carrier as in the company that makes air conditioners?

Thermo and fluids are OK - I can do them, but I don't like them (if that makes sense). Most of what I do at work is closest to machine design, with a very healthy dose of materials engineering thrown in there. I'm open to switching the PM module if I find that the thermo/fluids type of questions are easier for me.

My MERM arrives on Tuesday. I'm going to pick up the NCEES sample exam right away as well. I'd like to start working through the material after my summer class is done in mid-June...that gives me a few months until my fall semester at school starts up, and I think once I review what information is needed for the exam I can make a better decision on when to try to attempt it. If it's not going too badly, then maybe I'll plan to give the exam a shot next April and plan to take spring semester off from school for the review class. If I'm completely lost, I'll probably hold off on prepping for the PE until I'm done with grad school (currently slated for 2011).

I keep telling myself that I have 9 years and 9 months left on my EIT - I have more time than many to pass the PE exam, since the clock started 5+ years into my career rather than right at the beginning. I don't want to rush into this.

The MERM is all you need to pass the morning exam. The HVAC in the morning is very simple. Like you I had zero knowledge of HVAC when I started studying. Don't get distracted by looking at a lot of other materials. Know the MERM like the back of your hand and that's all you need. For MD use a textbook that you are familiar with.

I read that you are also planning to take a review class. This will fill the holes in the HVAC section. My last 2 cents is don't wait. Get it done ASAP. Studying for the PE is not a marathon... it is a sprint. 3-4 months is more than enough. I only spent 2.5 months and I was sick the last week before the exam. On exam day I felt awful but went to the exam anyway. I still left the exam feeling I did OK. I'll know in 12 weeks. Geez... California...

Good Luck.

Agg97 · May 2, 2009

bph said:
You can get the ASHRAE chart from ashrae.org bookstore at http://www.ashrae.org/publications/page/1282I think you only need the #1 chart in English units, but I purchased the complete set of 5. You must know how to use this chart!

I think the MERM is all you need for the HVAC, fluids and thermo AM sections. However, I think the MERM is complex and confusion for some of this stuff, and would be worth looking at some simplified stuff from Carrier (the ac company) or just on the web. Another poster gave 3 equations to remember;

Air Flow: 4.5*CFM*deltaH=Total Btuh (H=enthalpy)

Air Flow: 1.08*CFM*deltaT=Sensible Btuh

Water Flow: 500*GPM*deltaT=Btuh

These equations are in the MERM, but displayed in a less clear manner. You will see these equations in the NCEES sample exam solutions.

The MERM practice problems are mostly too complex for the HVAC and fluids AM sections. The NCEES exams are best (both exams) but not nearly enough problems, so you should get six minute solutions and maybe some other stuff that is similar. The PE AM exam in not interested in lots of number crunching, what they are testing for is understanding fundamentals and applications of knowledge, they set up problems to see if you can understand what is going on, sometimes they give non-standard type problems to see if you are just plugging and chugging, or if you understand the actual concepts and theory. So, to summarize, you need to understand the fundaments very, very well, but you don't need to do long drawn out problems, as are in the MERM practice problems manual.

Good luck,

BPH

Good summary. I'll add that you can download Psych. Chart #1 from this website for free: http://www.handsdownsoftware.com/ . When studying for the test (I took HVAC depth), I printed out a bunch of these on 11x17 paper. Much easier to use that way. When I took the actual test, I brought the ASHRAE one, the Trane one (which has convenient vapor pressures listed as well), and a 3rd one that had some altitude equations on it (can't remember which one). The other ASHRAE charts are used rarely, so I just counted on using the ones in the MERM Appendix 38.X to get me through.

Those formulas are good for "standard" conditions and good rules of thumb. However, I'd take the time to learn how to derive them yourself from q=m*c*deltaT and q=m*deltaH in case you get a low-temp refrigeration problem where the equations above aren't entirely accurate. It's basically unit conversions and densities. In fact, I'd recommend that approach for all of your studies. Find the "fundamental" formulas that others are derived from. Things like Bernoulli's extended equation, ideal gas law, first law of thermodynamics, etc. If you understand the fundamentals and know how each of the "sub-formulas" were derived, it makes everything a whole lot simpler and make a lot more sense. The exception to that is when there's dozens of equations such as ideal gas thermodynamics or constant-acceleration formulas. You can pretty much just plug and chug those.

One more book I'd throw on the list is Cameron Hydraulic Data. It makes those fluid problems a piece of cake. For any given pipe size and GPM, it has tabulated the velocity head and friction loss per 100 linear feet via the Darcy equation. It will save you from doing it the long way: calculate the Reynolds number, find the surface roughness, then find the friction factor on the moody diagram, then multiply that back into the velocity head (which you have to calculate manually). It easily knocks off 3 minutes on each fluid problem, plus there's less chance of a calculation error. Easily worth its cost, especially since you can basically sell it back for the same price after the test.

bph · May 4, 2009

Agg97 said:
... One more book I'd throw on the list is Cameron Hydraulic Data. It makes those fluid problems a piece of cake. ...

Agg97,

A few people have recommended that, but I haven't see an actual proper reference for that publication, could you post that info?

Thanks,

BPH

Mike in Gastonia · May 4, 2009

bph said:
Agg97,A few people have recommended that, but I haven't see an actual proper reference for that publication, could you post that info?

Thanks,

BPH

Dude. Google "Cameron Hydraulic Data" and there's like 20,000 hits.

mepe_tn · May 4, 2009

Don't forget a good Units Conversion book and Engineering Dictionary.

Mepe_tn

============

Join the MEPESTUDYGROUP at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mepestudygroup/

bph · May 4, 2009

mepe_tn said:
Don't forget a good Units Conversion book and Engineering Dictionary.
Mepe_tn

============

I know lots of people recomend these, but I had both, and didn't use either.

I searched long and hard for the engineering dictionary, ended up with a Mcgraw Hill engineering dictionary, but it's so general, that it's not of any use. I can't imagine you will find anything in there that would be useful and not in MERM (great index), Mark's (great index), Shingley or Machinery's handbbook.

I didn't use the unit conversion book either. It does not have a good index and very large, and so hard to look through. Again, I can't image you would need more that what is in the MERM. I only used the inside cover page of the MERM and a few conversion I had on my formula sheet. I realize the exam may ask for some strange unit conversion on a problem or two (see NCEES sample exam), but they are unusual and don't think you will find them in the conversion book, or it would be just as easy to do the conversion yourself.

However, you may want to bring one just in case.

I do think it is very important to understand the units, and if you don't you can get into real trouble. Using the english system with no real mass unit, which gives inconsistent set of units can drive one crazy. The issues of pound force, pound mass, when to divide or multiply by gravity, will definitely be on the exam. It can get confusing in the middle of a high pressure exam if you are unclear about this issue.

Shaggy · May 4, 2009

Here is a pretty good thread about references and studying:

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=2996&hl=

Regarding the units book... I found it helpful. The one from P.P.I is pretty good. It is in alphabetical order, so I just put a couple tabs in it that got me close to the appropriate letter. It definitely saved some time. Then again, it is just important to get accustomed to your references early. I never used MERM's unit conversions, because I got the unit book early.

Agg97 · May 4, 2009

Agg97,A few people have recommended that, but I haven't see an actual proper reference for that publication, could you post that info?

Thanks,

BPH

I bought mine at a technical bookstore in downtown Houston called Brown Bookshop. Great place. If you ever want to thumb through any of these technical books, that's where I go. As far as online, I'm sure you can pick up a used copy on Amazon or some place like that. I don't think any of the major publishers actually publish it, so you won't find it in Barnes & Noble or any bookstore like that. Doing a google search, it looks like you can buy it at www.cameronbook.com, but I can't vouch for them as I've never ordered anything directly from them. I think the 19th edition is the latest, but hydraulic data really doesn't change so an earlier version will suffice.

Katiebug · May 5, 2009

Thanks. My MERM arrived last night, and I haven't had a chance to thumb through it yet. I think I need the NCEES sample questions/practice exam to really get a feel for the types of questions asked and the difficulty.

bph · May 5, 2009

Katiebug said:
... I think I need the NCEES sample questions/practice exam to really get a feel for the types of questions asked and the difficulty.

Don't get fooled by the limited material covered in the NCEES sample exam, it's "typical", but it's just a sample of the large amount of information that could be on the test, in other words, you will see additional topics and problem types on your actual test, but the sample test is a very good example of what an actual exam looks like.

BPH

MechGuy · May 5, 2009

I would study the 6 minute solutions HVAC problems a bit since you said you don't have any HVAC experience. I tend to study the things I have less experience in more than the things I am familiar with. Since I took the HVAC depth, I studied the 6 min solutions books for thermo/fluids and machine design and thought it helped a great deal when it came to be exam time.

But the previous posters are correct -- get familiar with the ASHRAE Psych Chart (in english units) and know how to use it like the back of your hand. Then most HVAC problems should be fairly easy.

What prep materials and references are important?

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