# Army Corps of Engineers Admission of Fault



## EdinNO (Jun 2, 2006)

Since it appears that the US Army Coprs of Engineers is now admitting culpability in the levee failures in New Orleans, I wonder if this hurts or helps the image of the profession? :dunno: Any thoughts?

I'm thinking it could help. Now the public and the entire nation and perhaps the world (if this stuff is being aired throughout the nation still) can see how improper engineering can adversely affect a huge number of people, businesses and local economies and futures.

Perhaps people will see our importance. Maybe the reaction will be to pay whatever it takes to have it properly engineered.

Any other thoughts?

Ed


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## rleon82 (Jun 2, 2006)

I thought the leavies failed because George Bush blew them up? :true: :rotfl:


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## EdinNO (Jun 2, 2006)

That's true. He even threw in a few "rich" areas to offset and disguise the fact that he wanted to flood the poor areas.


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## jeb6294 (Jun 2, 2006)

You know it must be true because George Bush doesn't care about black people.


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## EdinNO (Jun 2, 2006)

Funny! Crazy! What a Klutz (the guy in the video). I guess he doesn't realize that God helps those who help themselves.

Anyone think the Corps admission will have any effect, positive or negative, on the engineering profession?

Ed


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## Kipper (Jun 2, 2006)

If the media wanted to twist it I am sure they could make the Corp look bad. I do not think they will focus on them, they are too busy bashing the administration.

What did they actually admit to?


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## EdinNO (Jun 2, 2006)

I am not 100% sure. So I hope I haven't proliferated any BS rumors here.

What I did hear on the local news was that some of the upper crust in the Corps admitted that desparate designs between neighboring communities and old, outdated technology, all of which should have been better policed by the Corps, contributed to the failures.

Here is a link: Corps Report

Ed


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## Kipper (Jun 2, 2006)

Thanks for the link.

Good report.

I work for an electric company in the Distribution Planning department. We have

to plan for an ever growing system.

The problem is the years the company wants to save extra money has caused us to be behind in adding infrastructure.

At some point we have to get over the hump and then we can "Plan".

I suspect the Corp was and is in the same situation. :brick:


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## Road Guy (Jun 5, 2006)

I saw a show on the levee's they have in holland? or somewhere overseas, those things were massive, what I saw of the ones in NO were just simple retaining wall looking things?

I didnt read the full article, but didnt they break because they "overtopped"? I guess they should have been designed to withstand a cat 5, but most COE projects serve some sort of purpose(Like a Dam generates power and provides a drinking supply of water) but why spend tax $ so a few people can live under sea level? I realize its too late now, but it just seems like a waste of money, unless we can charge a "use tax" for the people who choose to live in New Orleans..

yes, I am a hater :true:


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## EdinNO (Jun 5, 2006)

You can't let the media give you all your info.

-First, NO never started out below sea level. Its been sinking over time. :true:

-Second, the levees are a double-edged sword in some cases. The seasonal flooding from the Mississippi River has been contained by them, thus not renewing the land and marshes. Coastal erosion has become ridiculous. But the levees are needed to keep one of the largest ports in the nation running. :blink:

-Third, all the ruthless, slacking, non-working, non-wanting to work, government mooching losers who are shown on TV are not representative of the area. h43r:

-Fourth, many people have lived in the area their whole lives. We were always told the levees would hold. Are we just supposed to up and move to I-don't-know-where just because the COE says, "Oops, we were wrong"? :dunno: If we would have been told 30 years ago that this was a flip of a coin, maybe many would have found better places to live.

-Fifth, doesn't the COE serve a purpose by keeping one of the largest ports in the nation functioning?

Let's not help out CA due to YEARLY forest fires, earthquakes, etc... Let's just let them fall into the ocean! :thumbsup: 

The area I live in is not below sea level. I live on the Northshore of Lake Pntchartrain. Personally, I don't care for the mess, crime and ugliness of NO proper, but I grew up there. Also, my local economy pretty much depends on New Orleans.

If we could keep all the non-working moochers out the cityc could be rebuilt and could be a cleaner, nicer place to work, live and visit. We don't have the tax base to support the slackers anymore.

But anyway, do you think the COE's situation with the levees does anything good or bad for the profession?

Ed


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## Road Guy (Jun 5, 2006)

CA can fall off for all I care 

It still seems like a waste, I am a hater of all people who live on the coast and get to enjoy the beach &amp; surf, but then exepct to be immediately bailed out whenever a hurricane hits. If a tornado appears out of no where and wipes out my house, I doubt I will ever see a penny of federal $.

If anything I think it hurts engineers in the public eye. most people will read into it as a "design failure" and then ask why engineers have higher than average salaries.

Maybe the ships who use the port can pay most of the way for rebuilding quality levees, versus FICA.

But I thought the levee's were only used for floodwater and not boat traffic?


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## EdinNO (Jun 5, 2006)

I've been wiped out by flood before while living in Houston and my insurance took care of it- albeit after several months of intense fighting with the SOBs. I never got nor did I expect a penny from the government.

I think more people need to be a little more self-sufficient, I agree.

Also, I don't think anyone ever promised anything about the levees holding. But many people were lulled into false security over the years. I don't even know if I can blame the COE, but people are starting to talk about it. The COE tried, it failed, lets move on. Pumps failed out of stupidity and stupid planning on the officials parts. More homes were flooded than could have/ should have been.

But the levees in some way do impact trade and port activities, if not directly. They enabled the proximity of the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet to homes and businesses in St. Bernard Parish. This enables ships a major advantage in the form of a short-cut to the Gulf of Mexico. Without levees, the port facilities would likely be underwater on a regular basis and not functionable. Without levees the workforce would not be able to habitate the area, etc...

They are necessary to keep things moving.

Maybe the entire city can slowly but surely repopulate North of the lake and spread out to areas above sea level, but still within an hour of downtown. Eventually, downtown can be moved to higher land.

BTW, there is no beach and surf here. There is yuck and muck.


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## Road Guy (Jun 5, 2006)

_Maybe the entire city can slowly but surely repopulate North of the lake and spread out to areas above sea level, but still within an hour of downtown. Eventually, downtown can be moved to higher land_

Thats more of what I was thinking.

And yes the intercoastal gulf side does have a mucky ocean. I have only been to gulfport, the water near the casinos was pretty stenchy


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## EdinNO (Jun 5, 2006)

Yeah,

The Gulf really starts to get nice about 3 hours east of here in Alabama and Florida- outside of the influence of the Mississippi River.

I think the repopulation thing is happening on its own. But think about how slow and painstaking the process will be... billions of dollars of homes and businesses moving a minimum of a half hour and up to 1-1/2 hours away.

Certainly many families and major businesses are starting to come my way, but it will likely take place over many years. I would think that eventually your useage tax for being below sea level could possibly work if it could get by the liberal government we have down here.

Ed


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## Kipper (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey Ed,

How much longer before it will be good to visit NO?

My wife and I have never been and we were going to visit for our 20th anniversary, but Katrina wiped those plans out.


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## EdinNO (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't know. I guess it depends on what you are interested in seeing. Things are up and going and you could get the added benefit of still being able to see some of the destruction in person- although a lot of things are cleaned up.

The problems are that many restaurants aren't back up so it could be difficult to eat at times.

Let me know what you are thinking of doing and maybe I can look into what's what down there. I haven't paid too much attention because I essentially just commute back and forth to work and stay clear of all the downtown stuff mostly.

Ed


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## Kipper (Jun 5, 2006)

Thanks, when we get closer to going I will.

Right now it will probably be sometime next year.

I have a feeling I will be studying again.


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