# Civil PE April 2010



## outatime2002

How did it go this weekend? I thought the morning was very cut and dry. I took the Structural Depth in the afternoon and thought it was mostly straightforward. There were a few curveballs for Structural. I'm hoping that the fact I did well in the morning will carry me through to a passing score. Is it true that there are different cut scores depending on the depth module you took? If the cut score is 55/80, I'm pretty sure I passed.


----------



## Mapes

outatime2002 said:


> How did it go this weekend? I thought the morning was very cut and dry. I took the Structural Depth in the afternoon and thought it was mostly straightforward. There were a few curveballs for Structural. I'm hoping that the fact I did well in the morning will carry me through to a passing score. Is it true that there are different cut scores depending on the depth module you took? If the cut score is 55/80, I'm pretty sure I passed.


Just took it for my first time but I agree with your take on the morning. No crazy questions and very little need to go outside of the CERM. In the morning, I finished like 45 min early which was nice since it allowed me to review all of the problems that I had any second guesses on. This actually allowed me to catch a few mistakes. I took the Construction PM. This was a little tougher than I expected, mainly because the problems took a lot longer than I would have liked. Cut it close with time in PM but finished. Now the waiting begins... Good luck everybody


----------



## aggiecorgi

This was my second time taking the exam (Civil/WR). I thought the morning was about the difficulty I was expecting, but the afternoon was very easy compared to October. I felt like I knew 80-90% of this exam, and hope my feelings are on par with my results. Last time I felt I got about 50% correct, and ended up scoring a 68.


----------



## glennon05

I also thought the morning was cut and dry, no big surprises. I took transporation in the afternoon, and it was much more difficult than I had anticipated, considering that's where I spent about 75% of my time studying.


----------



## Jay

This was my first (and hopefully only) time - I took the Structural depth.

The morning was easy. I only used the CERM. Couple of questions I wasn't sure of.

I found the Structural depth to be even easier than the morning. I used a lot of my codes and references, and there were a couple of questions I wasn't sure of.

Overall, I'm glad I studied for the depth more than the morning. I could see how someone would find the structural depth hard if they didn't study. If you study the NCEES sample questions and solutions (for structural depth and structural I), the structural depth is a breeze.


----------



## outatime2002

aggiecorgi said:


> This was my second time taking the exam (Civil/WR). I thought the morning was about the difficulty I was expecting, but the afternoon was very easy compared to October. I felt like I knew 80-90% of this exam, and hope my feelings are on par with my results. Last time I felt I got about 50% correct, and ended up scoring a 68.


I feel like I knew on the lower end of that 80-90%. I knew how to solve about 80% of the problems. I'm hoping that it gets me by. Any idea on cut scores? Is it typical to assume 70% is the minimum passing score?


----------



## Mapes

I could be wrong but I think 70% is probably the highest possible cut score. After the exams have been "normalized", the cut score is 70. I doubt there are many instances when they would curve down. I would think for the most part a score like a 65 would be adjusted to a 70. This is all speculation however.


----------



## BenM

This was my first time taking it as well, transportation in the afternoon, both modules were much easier than I expected, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm glad I studied as much as I did, which was a lot, because it made a lot of the questions very fast to solve. The morning took only took me 2 hours, so I did it twice.....make sure everything was good to go. The afternoon, with the exception of 1 or 2 questions was very fast as well. I had about an hour to go back and check things over. Overall feeling very good about the exam.


----------



## jamie

i thought the whole test was pretty straight forward. the morning section went well, I took geotech in the afternoon, which i had done a ton of practice problems for and felt like I could do most of the problems. i felt pretty good about it coming out of test.


----------



## VBinNC

I took the Civil/WR for the second time this past weekend and I thought the morning part was pretty on par from October but I also thought that the Afternoon questions this time around were alot more applicable to my personal work experience in "water resouces" as compared to October's. I'm glad I put 85% of my studying into WR depth only and a basic review of the other morning stuff.. Last time I split it 50-50 and pulled a 68 (EPIC FAIL).

Hopefully it'll be a good July 4th for us!


----------



## ND75

I took the transportation Depth. I had taken the exam 3 years ago, where i studied just for less than 8 hours. I had managed to get around 66 that time. This time I felt the morning was at par with the previous exam, but the afternoon was little easier. I am keeping fingers crossed. I feel that if the cut off is getting 52-53 problems correct, than i am confident that i passed. If it is about 56, then i may be on the border. Overall the questions were easy except a bit tricky.


----------



## maximus808

I had to guess on about 12 questions total from what I remember. The remaining I believe I've gotten correct but there's still room for error. Do you think that may be enough to get me through the cut score? Also, is the test weighted or curved and do questions get judged on difficulty say some questions are worth more than others? Thanks.


----------



## TJfromWA

Jay said:


> Overall, I'm glad I studied for the depth more than the morning. I could see how someone would find the structural depth hard if they didn't study. If you study the NCEES sample questions and solutions (for structural depth and structural I), the structural depth is a breeze.



I agree with Jay. I spent way too much time preparing for the morning portion. Focusing more on the structural afternoon would have benefited me more.

I was surprised that time wasn't more of an issue, I had been told that I wouldn't have time to look up a lot of problems, but I actually had about 1 1/2 hrs in the morning and 30 min in the afternoon to go back and look up things I wasn't sure of. Because of this I would recommend the mindset of "bring all that you can muster" when it comes to references, you never know what appendix might have the term that you are looking for.

I used the NCEEES sample questions as a practice (half length) test and only got 5/20 on the pm structural section a week before the test. I was freaking out, but it turns out that the actual structural PM was a lot easier than the sample questions. However, I am glad that I looked at the sample questions because it made me decide to spend the last week of studying on material specific structural topics (specifically NDS, AISC, ACI) which was very productive.

Overall, I have to say that I think the test was pretty straightforward. Good luck to everyone.


----------



## sac_engineer

TJfromWA said:


> Jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, I'm glad I studied for the depth more than the morning. I could see how someone would find the structural depth hard if they didn't study. If you study the NCEES sample questions and solutions (for structural depth and structural I), the structural depth is a breeze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Jay. I spent way too much time preparing for the morning portion. Focusing more on the structural afternoon would have benefited me more.
> 
> I was surprised that time wasn't more of an issue, I had been told that I wouldn't have time to look up a lot of problems, but I actually had about 1 1/2 hrs in the morning and 30 min in the afternoon to go back and look up things I wasn't sure of. Because of this I would recommend the mindset of "bring all that you can muster" when it comes to references, you never know what appendix might have the term that you are looking for.
> 
> I used the NCEEES sample questions as a practice (half length) test and only got 5/20 on the pm structural section a week before the test. I was freaking out, but it turns out that the actual structural PM was a lot easier than the sample questions. However, I am glad that I looked at the sample questions because it made me decide to spend the last week of studying on material specific structural topics (specifically NDS, AISC, ACI) which was very productive.
> 
> Overall, I have to say that I think the test was pretty straightforward. Good luck to everyone.
Click to expand...

It's rare that anyone can say they studied just enough to pass. People either study too much or not study enough. It's better to be a bit afraid of the exam and over-prepare since there's a better chance of passing than it would if you just put in a minimum effort.


----------



## WSU_Coug

TJfromWA, I had almost the same exact experience as you for the Civil PE with structural depth. I finished with about the same amount of time for the morning and afternoon portions as you did, and agree that the structural portion was easier than I was thinking after taking the NCEES sample exam the previous weekend. I got about 8 questions right on the structural portion and a lot had to do with the little nuances of the codes you mentioned. I also was in freak out mode after that, especially since people were saying the NCEES sample exam was supposed to be like the actual exam! Do you recall a problem on the structural portion where the right answer was not listed? I know I can't go into specifics about it, but the answer I got was about 33% higher than the highest choice they listed, and I'm pretty sure I was doing it right as it was a fairly simple problem.

Saw that you took it in California as well, how did the seismic go for you? I think the only one I'm really sweating is the surveying, just got crunched for time.


----------



## PE_2009

jamie said:


> i thought the whole test was pretty straight forward. the morning section went well, I took geotech in the afternoon, which i had done a ton of practice problems for and felt like I could do most of the problems. i felt pretty good about it coming out of test.


Jaime,

Which areas did you find difficult in Geotech afternoon?


----------



## khp

VBinNC - When you say you failed with a 68 you mean 68% right? That would mean you scored about 54/80. Scared me a little because I know I didn't get 68 total questions correct.

I think the morning was pretty straight forward. I went through and counted and feel like I got 29-32 correct.

I took the construction afternoon and found it to be much harder than the PPI or NCEES practice exams. Having the required references helped on many questions. I think I got 27-29 correct in the afternoon. That would put my total score between 56-61, not counting the guesses. I feel pretty confident that will be enough to pass.


----------



## TJfromWA

WSU_Coug said:


> TJfromWA, I had almost the same exact experience as you for the Civil PE with structural depth. I finished with about the same amount of time for the morning and afternoon portions as you did, and agree that the structural portion was easier than I was thinking after taking the NCEES sample exam the previous weekend. I got about 8 questions right on the structural portion and a lot had to do with the little nuances of the codes you mentioned. I also was in freak out mode after that, especially since people were saying the NCEES sample exam was supposed to be like the actual exam! Do you recall a problem on the structural portion where the right answer was not listed? I know I can't go into specifics about it, but the answer I got was about 33% higher than the highest choice they listed, and I'm pretty sure I was doing it right as it was a fairly simple problem.
> Saw that you took it in California as well, how did the seismic go for you? I think the only one I'm really sweating is the surveying, just got crunched for time.


WSU_Coug: I think I know which question you are referring to. It seemed really simple but the answer wasn't there. Oh well, its only one point, hopefully they will throw that one out when scoring.

As far as the seismic goes, I left feeling like I got my ars kicked for two and half hours, but I am pretty sure that I answered about 60% of the questions confidently, so if the passing scores are similar to what they have been in the past I should be ok. I certainly felt rushed on the surveying, but overall feel good about how it went. If anything, I failed the seismic, which is sad because I work with it everday. GO COUGS!

To sac_engineer: were you referring to my post when you commented on studying just enough to pass? Just curious because I felt like I studied plenty and am confident that I passed the general 8 hr exam. I don't know what gave you the impression that I felt like I studied just enough to pass, my previous quote was regarding how I thought I could have studied more effectively, not about the quantity of studying that I did. Just curious if I just miscommunicated or if you were referring to something else.


----------



## LoneTerpInCarolina

According to Haku Israni, the founder of Testmasters who actually graded PE exams for 20 years or so, your actual  percent correct needs to be between 58%-62% of 80 questions. This 58%-62% depends on the degree of difficulty of the exam and how well the "group" performs as a whole. Then after they determine the actual percent, they convert that percent to the "cut score" of 70. So basically if you get 50 out of 80 questions correct (62.5%) then you will likely pass. The score of 70 that everyone talks about is not actually 70%. I don't know how true this is, but his class was awesome and definitely helped me, so this is likely pretty darn close. He seemed to be very well informed, in fact, the examples he used in class were very similar to the actual ones on the test (pleasantly surprised me actually).


----------



## sac_engineer

TJfromWA said:


> To sac_engineer: were you referring to my post when you commented on studying just enough to pass? Just curious because I felt like I studied plenty and am confident that I passed the general 8 hr exam. I don't know what gave you the impression that I felt like I studied just enough to pass, my previous quote was regarding how I thought I could have studied more effectively, not about the quantity of studying that I did. Just curious if I just miscommunicated or if you were referring to something else.


No it wasn't a direct comment to you. My comment was a general statement that no one can go into the PE exam and think they can pass if they barely studied. The PEs I know who thought they didn't pass confessed that they didn't spend enough time preparing for the exam; but there are those who thought they failed and ended up passing and knew some luck was on their side. The ones I know who have failed once or many times weren't surprised they didn't pass.

Like you, I left the exams with confidence that I passed all of them and would have been very surprised if I hadn't. I studied pretty hard and it paid off.


----------



## VBinNC

khp said:


> VBinNC - When you say you failed with a 68 you mean 68% right? That would mean you scored about 54/80. Scared me a little because I know I didn't get 68 total questions correct.



Ohhh.. that 5 is awful close to that 6.... I meant I got 58% correct. When you do not pass the exam they break each section out (Breadth - Construction, Hydraulics-Closed Conduit, etc.) out and give you a % correct in order to help you gage future study areas. There was a Spreadsheet somewhere on here where it breaks it down to how many you got correct in certain areas with a Likely passing score and a Definitely passing score to help with your %correct totals...

Yeah. 58% will not get you a PE.


----------



## outatime2002

LoneTerpInCarolina said:


> According to Haku Israni, the founder of Testmasters who actually graded PE exams for 20 years or so, your actual  percent correct needs to be between 58%-62% of 80 questions. This 58%-62% depends on the degree of difficulty of the exam and how well the "group" performs as a whole. Then after they determine the actual percent, they convert that percent to the "cut score" of 70. So basically if you get 50 out of 80 questions correct (62.5%) then you will likely pass. The score of 70 that everyone talks about is not actually 70%. I don't know how true this is, but his class was awesome and definitely helped me, so this is likely pretty darn close. He seemed to be very well informed, in fact, the examples he used in class were very similar to the actual ones on the test (pleasantly surprised me actually).


I would love to believe you, but I have a hard time believing that 62.5% is a "likely" pass.


----------



## ENG_Diver

outatime2002 said:


> LoneTerpInCarolina said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Haku Israni, the founder of Testmasters who actually graded PE exams for 20 years or so, your actual  percent correct needs to be between 58%-62% of 80 questions. This 58%-62% depends on the degree of difficulty of the exam and how well the "group" performs as a whole. Then after they determine the actual percent, they convert that percent to the "cut score" of 70. So basically if you get 50 out of 80 questions correct (62.5%) then you will likely pass. The score of 70 that everyone talks about is not actually 70%. I don't know how true this is, but his class was awesome and definitely helped me, so this is likely pretty darn close. He seemed to be very well informed, in fact, the examples he used in class were very similar to the actual ones on the test (pleasantly surprised me actually).
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to believe you, but I have a hard time believing that 62.5% is a "likely" pass.
Click to expand...

I took the exam last year and my cut score was 68% however with the breakdown it appears that i recieved a 56% which is a 12 point swing. So a 62.5% is possible. As for the exam, i thought the Depth Portion (Construction) was a lot easier than last year so i am optimistic this go around.


----------



## txguy

LoneTerpInCarolina said:


> According to Haku Israni, the founder of Testmasters who actually graded PE exams for 20 years or so, your actual  percent correct needs to be between 58%-62% of 80 questions. This 58%-62% depends on the degree of difficulty of the exam and how well the "group" performs as a whole. Then after they determine the actual percent, they convert that percent to the "cut score" of 70. So basically if you get 50 out of 80 questions correct (62.5%) then you will likely pass. The score of 70 that everyone talks about is not actually 70%. I don't know how true this is, but his class was awesome and definitely helped me, so this is likely pretty darn close. He seemed to be very well informed, in fact, the examples he used in class were very similar to the actual ones on the test (pleasantly surprised me actually).


Yes i was in the testmasters class and Dr israni mentioned the same thing about that percentage of correct answers needed to pass. I highly doubt on this one even though i have no doubt his classes are good. Another instructor in same prep course of testmasters mentioned 56 correct answers required. I have not heard too many complains about the level of difficulty for april 2010 PE test. So i would assume a minimum of 57 to 58 correct answers to be on the safe side.


----------



## H2Ohhh

txguy said:


> LoneTerpInCarolina said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Haku Israni, the founder of Testmasters who actually graded PE exams for 20 years or so, your actual  percent correct needs to be between 58%-62% of 80 questions. This 58%-62% depends on the degree of difficulty of the exam and how well the "group" performs as a whole. Then after they determine the actual percent, they convert that percent to the "cut score" of 70. So basically if you get 50 out of 80 questions correct (62.5%) then you will likely pass. The score of 70 that everyone talks about is not actually 70%. I don't know how true this is, but his class was awesome and definitely helped me, so this is likely pretty darn close. He seemed to be very well informed, in fact, the examples he used in class were very similar to the actual ones on the test (pleasantly surprised me actually).
> 
> 
> 
> Yes i was in the testmasters class and Dr israni mentioned the same thing about that percentage of correct answers needed to pass. I highly doubt on this one even though i have no doubt his classes are good. Another instructor in same prep course of testmasters mentioned 56 correct answers required. I have not heard too many complains about the level of difficulty for april 2010 PE test. So i would assume a minimum of 57 to 58 correct answers to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...


I don't know about the others, but I found breadth questions of CIVIL-WRE comparatively tougher than those of the depth ones. Not hearing too many complains does not necessarily mean test was easy. Maybe they (who did not do well, including me!) all are still in shock...

Lets wait for a few more months and see what this summer brings to all of us...


----------



## MWC PE

So say it was a much easier test and the center of the bell curve is above 70%. Do they curve down or are you safe with a true 70% correct?


----------



## PEinMT

I found out yesterday that I passed! Whoohoo, 1st time! Took WR/E in the afternoon. I have been a longtime lurker on the board and I appreciate all the solutions, study tips and test taking tips from everyone. For future test takers here what I did that worked for me:

On and off working through the CREM Problems last July. Didn't do all of them, averaged about 12 hours per week. I've been out of school since 2001 and have only been doing true civil work the last 4 years. I needed a lot of refresher, I was never a great brain of a student, I had to really work at it.

In early January I did the Lindburg practice test-morning. It kicked my a$$- 50% I got right for the morning. I carefully reworked each problem and following the solution, and also to examine ways to work problems quicker, i.e. nomographs, charts, ets.. 14-20 hrs a week.

In Late January I began working the 6-min solutions general section for all afternoon sections. It was difficult as well, some random stuff was thrown but I had located some posts on the board that made me feel better about the Lindburg and the 6-min solution. 14-20hrs a week

Crunch time. I spent Feb/ early Mar working on the practice sections of the AM that I was weak in from 6-min. Slow and really concentrated. Also, the review classes on the Texas A&amp;M site helped some and broke up the problems solving. No study classes offered around here and I wasn't impressed with any review of the online classes that you had to pay for. 20 hrs/week.

Late Mar/April concentrated on the WR/E afternoon section. Lindburg, 6-min, NCEES AM &amp; PM. I knew I was strong in this section based on my AM studying &amp; that's what I've been doing at work for the last year. I struggled a little with the Environmental stuff, only because I don't do muchl, but if you can work the problems in the practice tests all's good. Reworked the 6-min &amp; NCEES AM &amp; PM. 20hrs/week

No studying the week of the exam. I began tabbing all my books in January as I reworked the Lindburg Practice test in January. I was amazed at the confidence I gained when I could get to the right section quickly. I used the tabs on post it notes on top and folder tabs on the side of the CREM for the sections. I also began working problems using a small binder was always handy that contained the index, again tabbed on the side A-U I think to get started, if it was something I knew wasn't tabbed. Compiled my references and tabbed as appropriate. 1 milk crate with the critical references and 1 crate with the ones I figured I may could get by without. I did open a few of the references I wasn't expecting to need for the AM, particularly carry all the transpo you can find.

Test time. Carry a clear protractor to read charts well. It was the third most helpful thing I carried besides the CREM &amp; calculator. Metcalf &amp; Eddy Wastewater Use, Reuse &amp; Disposal was the second most helpful book for WR/E.

I worked most all the test problems 2 times except for the ones that I knew were out of my league, however I did get reasonable answers for these. I caught many mistakes the second time around by carefully re-reading the questions. Spent the last 15 min both morning and afternoon slowly bubbling in, double checking bubbles and gut checking my answers. Sorry for the blog, Hope this helps someone, Thanks again to everyone else that has offered up info.


----------



## mustangcobra93

I thought I failed the April test but just got my letter and I passed. Thank goodness.


----------



## hp32si

I also thought I failed---but I passed 4th try---but it still counts!

The morning was easy. I left 45 minutes early even after I checked the problems-

Afternoon was harder than in the test October--go figure!

Must have answered more correctly in the morning section


----------



## hebelowkey

Test went about as expected. Lindeburg sample problems and practice test were harder than actual exam so test went pretty smooth.


----------

