# NCEES Record - system upgrade



## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

For current record holders who are affected by the recent system upgrade, please visit the visitor post on NCEES facebook page.

I am trying to explore legal options for recent record holders who have been affected by this unannounced change.

References are valid for a year when the record was created. Asking to re-submit references because now they have a new format/system is a breach of contract that NCEES entered into when you paid for and created the record within one year. There are no system upgrade clauses in the agreement that invalidates an already submitted reference.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 22, 2016)

automatic said:


> Asking to re-submit references because now they have a new format/system is a breach of contract that NCEES entered into when you paid for and created the record within one year.


I am a legacy NCEES record holder and have not been asked to re-submit any references. My record is still valid for the 2016 calendar year.


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## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> I am a legacy NCEES record holder and have not been asked to re-submit any references. My record is still valid for the 2016 calendar year.


OK... I am puzzled. So you can view your record when you login to MyNCEES? I am being asked to enter email addresses of the references I have in the system or add new. The references need to be in electronic format in the new system. References will be sent an email from the system with a link to a form to be filled in. When my record was created a few months ago, it was in paper format.


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## jmooney5115 (Jul 22, 2016)

automatic said:


> References will be sent an email from the system with a link to a form to be filled in.


I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 22, 2016)

I cannot view my record with the new system as it stands today (though I suspect they are working on that).  However, here's some info from the MyNCEES website:



> Records Program accounts must be linked to your MyNCEES account before you can transmit your Record to a state licensing board. You will need the password to your prior existing account in order to link your accounts.Contact NCEES if you don’t have this information.
> 
> For best results, prior existing accounts should be linked approximately 30 days prior to making your first transmittal request in the new system. This will ensure your Record is current and eligible for transmission to a state licensing board.
> 
> The new system no longer requires members to renew their Record or pay a renewal fee. There is no need to link your account until you are ready to transmit your information.


This topic was also discussed somewhat in another thread.


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## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

jmooney5115 said:


> I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.


Yes... which is fine and good for new applicants. For recent record holders that submitted paper references, we have to use the email system and get new references (can be from the same persons of course..).


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 22, 2016)

jmooney5115 said:


> I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.


Yes, this is the case when applying for a NCEES Record.  Existing record holder need not do anything other than link their legacy account with the new MyNCEES account. I believe detailed instructions were emailed to those legacy NCEES Record holders.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 22, 2016)

automatic said:


> Yes... which is fine and good for new applicants. For recent record holders that submitted paper references, we have to use the email system and get new references (can be from the same persons of course..).


I'm unclear as to what your status is on this.  Was your NCEES Record application approved such that you were assigned an active record number?  If so, then see my previous post above. No other action on your part is required.


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## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> I'm unclear as to what your status is on this.  Was your NCEES Record application approved such that you were assigned an active record number?  If so, then see my previous post above. No other action on your part is required.


I understand what you are saying. I do want to do a transmittal of my record. This is where I am having an issue. Yes, my record was created in Jan and I have an active record under the old system, and it is now "linked". However, the references I had submitted are not valid in the new system anymore. New references have to be obtained via the electronic system.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.

@kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?


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## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.
> 
> @kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?


Exactly. There in lies my frustration. I think for Civil/Structural PEs this may not be a big issue as they work with PEs on a daily basis. I am a Control Systems Engineer. There aren't many PEs in our field. I had to dig up PEs from my previous work who I worked with to get this record created. It took a long time to track them down and request the references etc. And in a few months, they tossed it out. I don't see these PEs on a daily basis.


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## automatic (Jul 22, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.
> 
> @kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?


Two more points:

1) It is very clear to me that the impact of this system upgrade to existing record holders haven't been communicated at all. You didn't know about this reference requirement, and no one will until they are ready to use their record (or I don't know what happens when it is time to submit your one reference/year refresh). I definitely didn't know anything about it when I created the record just a few months ago and I didn't know about it until I went online to have my record transmitted. Not many existing record holders are actively on the site trying to transmit a record.

2) When a record was created and you paid for it, NCEES agreed into an agreement to provide this service to you for the fee you paid. Their agreement does not include and the record holders did not agree to re-submit any information for system upgrades. Legally, my NCEES record and all data I submitted for it, should still be valid. They are in breach of contract if they cannot provide this.


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## jfluckey (Jul 25, 2016)

I stumbled across this when I wanted to submit to Ohio. Went to do a transmittal to find out that I need to link my legacy account (which will take up to 2 weeks). I saw today that I could submit a transmittal so I called Customer Support and I was told I can go through checkout but no transmittal will occur until I get updated references. I asked what happened to the references I just submitted and was told that all previous references were destroyed (she thinks). Now I am unsure if my legacy account that I "linked" last week started linking last week or if it was waiting for me to transmit (and pay) for a transmittal. Even after my phone call, I don't know what the process truly is. Does my account need to get linked before I am able to send out reference requests? So I cannot transmit for 2 weeks plus however long it takes for my references to be returned?

@automatic, your #1 is spot on. I received no notification that this was happening. My "myNCEES" and "records" account had different email addresses. Since I have not used "myNCCES" since I took my exams, it had an outdated email address. I wonder if they emailed that one. You would think they would use the records account email to inform the customers. Why do people use this service? To speed up applications but now I am being slowed down when time is of the essence.

*I AM ANGRY!*


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## jfluckey (Jul 25, 2016)

I just called back. You cannot send out reference requests until after the account has been migrated. Migration did not start until today when I requested a transmittal. Me linking my account last week did what? I don't know, but I do know NCEES has done a terrible job corresponding with me. I also asked about a refund for my last year's service and was told I would not be getting a refund. I renewed in August for (1) year and their service was terminated a couple months ago. I would think I would get a refund. Also, transmittals increased from $60 to $75 while a records account no longer requires an annual fee.

More complaining: The OH board only sits every other month. So if I can get my transmittal to OH in time, it will take an extra (2) months to get licensed. Don't worry NCEES, engineering is a hobby and not my source of income to provide for my family. Missing out on work because I can't get licensed affects me very little.


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## automatic (Jul 25, 2016)

jfluckey said:


> I just called back. You cannot send out reference requests until after the account has been migrated. Migration did not start until today when I requested a transmittal. Me linking my account last week did what? I don't know, but I do know NCEES has done a terrible job corresponding with me. I also asked about a refund for my last year's service and was told I would not be getting a refund. I renewed in August for (1) year and their service was terminated a couple months ago. I would think I would get a refund. Also, transmittals increased from $60 to $75 while a records account no longer requires an annual fee.
> 
> More complaining: The OH board only sits every other month. So if I can get my transmittal to OH in time, it will take an extra (2) months to get licensed. Don't worry NCEES, engineering is a hobby and not my source of income to provide for my family. Missing out on work because I can't get licensed affects me very little.


Yes. You have to pay for a transmittal for the migration to begin. At least for me that was the case. It took a little over two weeks for the migration to be completed. The reference part is what bothers me the most. I can redo every other part of the application - suck it up... but the references make me really angry.

They should get some contract workers and do a manual data entry of all previous references.

This is cheating/robbery from an organization that is supposed to uphold high standards. Disappointed.


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## automatic (Jul 25, 2016)

If there is enough interest, if I can get 15-20 people interested, I can organize some legal course of action against NCEES for this debacle.


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## jfluckey (Jul 25, 2016)

They did fast track my migration after my third or fourth call today... I have now been migrated and I can complete the missing parts of migration [work gap, work experience (I don't know why they think my last employment ended 2 years before it actually did), Exam and license verification (I need to pay an extra $12 to IN to verify my already-verified-to-NCEES license), personal data, and references]. Yes, I am really angry about the reference letters too. I just updated one and now I need to ask for my referrer to do another one!


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## automatic (Jul 25, 2016)

jfluckey said:


> They did fast track my migration after my third or fourth call today... I have now been migrated and I can complete the missing parts of migration [work gap, work experience (I don't know why they think my last employment ended 2 years before it actually did), Exam and license verification (I need to pay an extra $12 to IN to verify my already-verified-to-NCEES license), personal data, and references]. Yes, I am really angry about the reference letters too. I just updated one and now I need to ask for my referrer to do another one!


Yes... same comment about them ending my employment and asking me to create a new one. Why not give an option to just click a checkbox to say, you are at the same job.

I didn't have to pay verify my current license though. That verification was fast and automatic. Just had to request it from the system (makes me wonder why they couldn't initiate it from the system as part of the upgrade though).

Yes, References.......    

I should have just applied for comity with CA without going through this hassle of a record creation!


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 25, 2016)

Wow, what a fiasco!  I am not thinking they should refund my renewal fee that I paid in Feb.  

As for notification, this is the only information I received from NCEES regarding the records system:



> The NCEES Records Program will be unavailable June 11–19 for system enhancements. You will not be able to access your account during this time. As a reminder, all upcoming transmittal requests must be submitted no later than June 10.
> 
> Thank you for your patience as we work to bring you a new and improved system


Nowhere did it state that the records system we used regularly would be migrated with MyNCEES. And furthermore, nothing on what to expect and *PLAN FOR* with regard to what would be needed for the migration. I'm really at a loss on the references aspect. As I mentioned above, I know for a fact that some of my references have already retired and are no longer reachable.  So does that mean I now have to find (5) new references for the electronic format?  If that is the case, it's going to be quite a hassle and long drawn-out process. Speaking bluntly, WTH were they thinking?!


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## peaon7 (Jul 26, 2016)

After I had to get the references to update online, I finally got to what I thought was the final step of "record migration".  Not so.  They want me to get re-verification of state licenses, and work history since my initial application.  And trying to edit the work history only got me an error 404.


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## Maji (Jul 26, 2016)

I think NCEES has done a terrible job communicating the correct procedures for updating the records. Why should we even have to "link"? Shouldn't it be automatic if we have an account already? I have been with NCEES for 16 years now and a couple of companies I worked for have closed or changed hands. I should not have to put in any extra effort to re-register. If anyone is exploring legal options, I would like to know also. 

Thank you.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 26, 2016)

peaon7 said:


> After I had to get the references to update online, I finally got to what I thought was the final step of "record migration".  Not so.  They want me to get re-verification of state licenses, and work history since my initial application.  And trying to edit the work history only got me an error 404.


So essentially what I'm hearing is that legacy record holders have to re-establish a new record altogether.  That is absurd.



Maji said:


> I think NCEES has done a terrible job communicating the correct procedures for updating the records. Why should we even have to "link"? Shouldn't it be automatic if we have an account already? I have been with NCEES for 16 years now and a couple of companies I worked for have closed or changed hands. I should not have to put in any extra effort to re-register. If anyone is exploring legal options, I would like to know also.


Quoted for the truth!  If NCEES is changing THEIR OWN system, then THEY should be responsible for how to handle the legacy information. And I don't care if that process means manual data entry. It's not my problem and I did not create this situation warranting information updates.  I'm in the same boat where I would need another new (5) PE references as my references from when my record was first established are no longer available.

Count me in on exploring legal action and such and I'm also happy to help with whatever research might be needed for this.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 26, 2016)

Count me in as well, my record was less than a year old and I once again have to get updated references and pay $30+ in various fees to get a few states to verify that I'm licensed (licenses that I got using the NCEES records). Thankfully I don't need my records right away but if this was holding up a job I'd be furious and calling NCEES daily to complain. Further annoyance is I've already had to send them $75 to begin the transmittal to a state board and transfer my account from the old system to the new system but now have to wait this exorbitantly long time to get references with nothing to show for my $75 after a few weeks.


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## redrum (Jul 26, 2016)

[email protected]

They don't have the moxy to list any other emails on their contact list, but I am sure you all are smart enough to decipher them:

http://ncees.org/contact/


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## csb (Jul 26, 2016)

Steven Matthews


Chief Technology Officer


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## jfluckey (Jul 26, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Count me in as well, my record was less than a year old and I once again have to get updated references and pay $30+ in various fees to get a few states to verify that I'm licensed (licenses that I got using the NCEES records). Thankfully I don't need my records right away but if this was holding up a job I'd be furious and calling NCEES daily to complain. Further annoyance is I've already had to send them $75 to begin the transmittal to a state board and transfer my account from the old system to the new system but now have to wait this exorbitantly long time to get references with nothing to show for my $75 after a few weeks.


You verified multiple states? Do you have to? I only requested verification from my home state and there was a fee associated with Indiana. I just sent verification for the 7 out of my other 9 states that verify for free. I won't do the other two with fees unless I need to. I don't know why NCEES needs to know what states I currently hold in order to transmit to other states.


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## josef104 (Jul 27, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Count me in as well, my record was less than a year old and I once again have to get updated references and pay $30+ in various fees to get a few states to verify that I'm licensed (licenses that I got using the NCEES records). Thankfully I don't need my records right away but if this was holding up a job I'd be furious and calling NCEES daily to complain. Further annoyance is I've already had to send them $75 to begin the transmittal to a state board and transfer my account from the old system to the new system but now have to wait this exorbitantly long time to get references with nothing to show for my $75 after a few weeks.


I am waiting on an offer for one where it is needed. They might be OK with a pending comity, but none the less - I am several weeks into having this thing transmitted over. If I don't get the job because of license issue, then I am going to withdraw my 401(K) and sue them for real damage.....


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## automatic (Jul 27, 2016)

CE_Transpo_GA said:


> [email protected]
> 
> They don't have the moxy to list any other emails on their contact list, but I am sure you all are smart enough to decipher them:
> 
> http://ncees.org/contact/


Done. Sent an email to all their executives from CEO to CFO to Steven Matthews himself. I had already been emailing Stef Goodenow and Marie Nebesky has been replying for her. I asked if we can talk on the phone since she kept telling me how awesome the new system is and I kept emailing her that is not my issue....... she could see no issue with what is being asked from the existing record holders...

Also, two of my references did not receive the email from the shiny new system. Two did. They all work at the same company. Marie blames it on the company spam filter. Yet another thing to look out for......


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 27, 2016)

automatic said:


> Also, two of my references did not receive the email from the shiny new system. Two did. They all work at the same company. Marie blames it on the company spam filter. Yet another thing to look out for......


Oh, fantastic. So the three references who are taking a while to submit their references might just not have received the messages. So now I get to be a huge pain in the ass and email them _again_ and bother them even more.



jfluckey said:


> You verified multiple states? Do you have to? I only requested verification from my home state and there was a fee associated with Indiana. I just sent verification for the 7 out of my other 9 states that verify for free. I won't do the other two with fees unless I need to. I don't know why NCEES needs to know what states I currently hold in order to transmit to other states.


I figured it would only help speed things along when I finally got to use this stupid new system, but you're entirely right that I probably don't need to bother with the states that have fees.


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## kevo_55 (Jul 27, 2016)

Meh....

I'm debating not even using the record anymore. It's just too much to ask us to do the legwork to upgrade our own records while we have been paying the yearly upkeep fee. (I've had my record for almost 10 years now.) 

So what if I need to fill out more paperwork? Isn't that what clerks are for?


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## Maji (Jul 27, 2016)

automatic said:


> Done. Sent an email to all their executives from CEO to CFO to Steven Matthews himself. I had already been emailing Stef Goodenow and Marie Nebesky has been replying for her. I asked if we can talk on the phone since she kept telling me how awesome the new system is and I kept emailing her that is not my issue....... she could see no issue with what is being asked from the existing record holders...
> 
> Also, two of my references did not receive the email from the shiny new system. Two did. They all work at the same company. Marie blames it on the company spam filter. Yet another thing to look out for......


Thank you automatic... perhaps they need some prodding to see the members' point of view and not just how it helps their bureaucracy.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 28, 2016)

Automatic, are you Jo Ge on facebook? If so, NCEES posted quite the idiotic reply to your post (link here).

Here's what they wrote:



> National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) Jo, we understand your frustration. No one likes to have to update information that they’ve already entered, especially if it was done fairly recently.
> 
> There is a reason that we can’t simply migrate all of your information for you. References in paper form can not be pushed through a now-electronic means of information gathering. We at NCEES can not act as though we are the respondents. If feedback is going into your account as dated/signed/submitted by PE references, employment supervisors, or boards verifying licenses, they and only they can send it. We have reached this position in conjunction with the 70 state licensing boards of the U.S.A.
> 
> ...


Here's what I wrote back:



> "If you don't need to transmit, then you don't need to do anything at all."
> 
> So, as long as we don't need to use this service we don't need to update!? What a stupid thing to state and clearly shows the disconnect of why NCEES apparently doesn't see the problem here. Also, don't forget that we can't start updating the account until we request transmittal to a state! Thus, we can't even start the process until we actually need the account. Many of our clients cannot wait 3 weeks for the account to be moved to the new system, updated with new references for another week or two (which is not as simple as you make it to be), and finally transmitted so that the state board can then take a few weeks of their own to review the application and finally issue a license.
> 
> ...


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 28, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Automatic, are you Jo Ge on facebook? If so, NCEES posted quite the idiotic reply to your post (link here).
> 
> Here's what they wrote:
> 
> ...


:appl:

I will be adding to the FB posts to hopefully drive home the point (which I doubt they will understand).


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## Road Guy (Jul 28, 2016)

well if you're an engineer that works for NCEES then you probably do have all day to write references for people since your obviously not doing your regular job!

lol, what a pain in the ass, sorry folks!


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 28, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> well if you're an engineer that works for NCEES then you probably do have all day to write references for people since your obviously not doing your regular job!
> 
> lol, what a pain in the ass, sorry folks!


That's honestly what baffles me; I know NCEES has engineers working for them. Perhaps they didn't have to wait while their records were transferred over. Perhaps there is 5+ of them and they can all reference each other very easily. Yet even assuming all that I would think that one of them would say "you know, why don't we just let people use the old accounts at least until they've setup the new system?"

Just completely ridiculous.


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## Maji (Jul 29, 2016)

It goes to show how out of touch with reality these people are. I also spoke with the support staff and they are completely devoid of any empathy. I just feel that it is a big bureaucracy that is out of control and needs to be reigned in.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> That's honestly what baffles me; I know NCEES has engineers working for them. Perhaps they didn't have to wait while their records were transferred over. Perhaps there is 5+ of them and they can all reference each other very easily. Yet even assuming all that I would think that one of them would say "you know, why don't we just let people use the old accounts at least until they've setup the new system?"
> 
> Just completely ridiculous.


Agreed. Why are they falling back on it's a confidentiality thing? Wouldn't they be able to get some sort of electronic consent from each record holder? They wouldn't be _changing_ any of the reference information, merely just _copying_ it to an online format. What am I missing here?


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 29, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> Agreed. Why are they falling back on it's a confidentiality thing? Wouldn't they be able to get some sort of electronic consent from each record holder? They wouldn't be _changing_ any of the reference information, merely just _copying_ it to an online format. What am I missing here?


They copied over my work experience form just fine so I don't buy any of this for a second. I would honestly say that an engineer certifying that I had the required years of experience to be _way_ more critical than the references section. Both require an engineer's signature, why can one be transferred over and not the other?

This is definitely a question that I want to hear what bogus answer they come up with.


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## matt267 PE (Jul 29, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> This is definitely a question that I want to hear what bogus answer they come up with.


"8 to 10 weeks"


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> "8 to 10 weeks"


matt....don't make me get the hammer....


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> They copied over my work experience form just fine so I don't buy any of this for a second. I would honestly say that an engineer certifying that I had the required years of experience to be _way_ more critical than the references section. Both require an engineer's signature, why can one be transferred over and not the other?
> 
> This is definitely a question that I want to hear what bogus answer they come up with.


Or what about just scanning the [email protected] files and creating high-res PDFs?  This is the 21st century, is it not?


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2016)

It sucks that some states force you to use ncees, for me I don't need a Texas PE so I won't give them(NCEEs) a f'n dime....


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 29, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> It sucks that some states force you to use ncees, for me I don't need a Texas PE so I won't give them(NCEEs) a f'n dime....


Well I (apparently stupidly) did it more for a convenience thing. Once I got licensed in my initial state I had a handful of New England states I needed to get licensed in relatively quickly and figured I may need more in the future. The NCEES account seemed like a great way to avoid headaches of getting my transcript, references, and work experience certified multiple times. It worked quite well actually for two states where I got licensed in a week or two from time of application. I would have happily recommended the old account system to anyone who wanted to apply to multiple states. I'd still recommend an account if you're starting with the new account system as the new system does appear easier to use overall.

But, yes, having to do this hassle of transferring my old account to the new system completely makes me regret that decision. NCEES stubbornness to admit they screwed up makes it 100x more infuriating. In addition, I agree that we're essentially paying $75 for a convenience and nothing more.


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2016)

I used to think it would be nice to have, but i think NCEES just wants to compile information on everyone (yes Im wearing my tin foil hat)

I look at it like this, if my company needs me to get licensed in another state, they have secretary's who can make the phone calls, fill the forms out, make self addresses stamped envelopes, etc and take care of it for me.  Just recently I had to do this and it took maybe 5 minutes of my time to sign the forms and give her my references contacts..  I just keep one filled out paper version and let them transcribe it into whatever form the state needs you to fill out..


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jul 29, 2016)

I wish I had a secretary... (downside of being the sole licensed engineer at a precast plant)


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> I look at it like this, if my company needs me to get licensed in another state, they have secretary's who can make the phone calls, fill the forms out, make self addresses stamped envelopes, etc and take care of it for me.


You must work with more capable people. Some people at my work are lucky to get from the parking lot to their desks each day. LOL

Since I do consulting work on the side, I don't have the luxury of having anyone to complete the licensing paperwork for me. So it made sense to get the NCEES Record as I knew my contract work would be taking me to IL and MO.


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## matt267 PE (Jul 29, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> You must work with more capable people. Some people at my work are lucky to get from the parking lot to their desks each day.


I didn't realize you worked for the state....


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2016)

I don't have a personal secretary but we have 3 or 4 spread around for 60 people..

Somewhere every company has someone that can fill the stuff out for you, just have to bug the right people...

You have to learn this thing called "delegation" it's very handy.....

If you work for the state then you have "nothing but time"  anyways....


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## peaon7 (Aug 1, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> I'm unclear as to what your status is on this.  Was your NCEES Record application approved such that you were assigned an active record number?  If so, then see my previous post above. No other action on your part is required.


Oh, and the have adopted a new system of record numbers.  And new login and password requirements.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 1, 2016)

Can legacy record holders view their corresponding record now? Or is that only an option once we've requested a submission and the record gets converted?


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 1, 2016)

It's only an option once you've requested a submission (so no getting this done ahead of time unless you want to apply to a random state board).

Here's what I currently see on the old record's page:


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 1, 2016)




----------



## peaon7 (Aug 1, 2016)

I think that you really need to try to log in and "link your legacy account" now rather than later.

This is shown when I login.

Existing Record holders and Credentials Evaluation customers need to link their legacy accounts to migrate their information into the new system.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 1, 2016)

I've linked my account. Because my dashboard shows that I can "Purchase Transmittal". Prior to linking my account I did not have this option available. However, with the old system, I was able to log in and see the status of my record, make changes, purchase renewals, etc. Now the only indication that I even have a record seems to be the "Purchase Transmittal" option. I can't even look up my associated record number. &lt;smh&gt;


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 1, 2016)

Once you "purchase transmittal" you will get a notification that your account it being transferred from the old record system. This process took about 2 weeks for me.

This is what you'll get after this process finally completes:


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 1, 2016)

Ok, that is kind of what I figured but had no idea what to expect on the interface itself.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 1, 2016)

The interface is actually fairly nice and an improvement over the old system. It actually would have been a nice upgrade if it wasn't for the debacle in actually switching over.


----------



## automatic (Aug 1, 2016)

Still, absolutely no communication from them. No apologies. No intend of looking into (or understanding) what the problem with the upgrade is. Yes, the new system is good, but you have done something terribly wrong to existing record holders.

I am thinking of just applying direct Comity to CA. No point in trying to waste my time and money with NCEES. Apparently CA does not need PE references for Control Systems discipline which makes the most difficult part of the process easier.


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 2, 2016)

Hmm, I have already linked my account but I have no option of "purchasing a transmittal" on my dashboard. 

No me gusta.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 2, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> Hmm, I have already linked my account but I have no option of "purchasing a transmittal" on my dashboard.
> 
> No me gusta.


When did you initiate the account linking? Because that takes a number of days to complete. Not quite sure what they actually do in the background during said "linking".


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 2, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> When did you initiate the account linking? Because that takes a number of days to complete. Not quite sure what they actually do in the background during said "linking".


Yeah, mine took about 2 weeks or so. If you honestly ask me I suspect they're manually transferring some things over which (if true) makes it even more baffling that they can't do the same on the references.


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 2, 2016)

I had the link started on June 20th. 

Do I need to actually need to fill out the Record application prerequisites first?


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 2, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> I had the link started on June 20th.
> 
> Do I need to actually need to fill out the Record application prerequisites first?


No. I just initiated the linking by clicking the corresponding website link. A number of days later, the "Purchase Transmittal" button was there. You might want to create a support ticket and start the conversation on what the hold-up is. And I'd be very interested to know what they tell you if you were actually considering a record transmittal with regard to your original references (I believe your record is even older than mine).


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 2, 2016)

It's created.

Should I shake the 8 ball to see what answer I'll get?


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 2, 2016)

I found this today.

*Notice for AZ applicants for Engineer and Land Surveyor registration:
The NCEES is no longer sharing your registration verification information from other State Board's with Arizona.  You will need to have your State Board send your verification directly to the Arizona Board of Technical Registration.*


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 2, 2016)

peaon7 said:


> *Notice for AZ applicants for Engineer and Land Surveyor registration:*
> 
> *The NCEES is no longer sharing your registration verification information from other State Board's with Arizona.  You will need to have your State Board send your verification directly to the Arizona Board of Technical Registration.*


What? Does this mean that if you apply with a NCEES record then the record wont even include the verification of licensure in a home state and it has to be sent separately?


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 2, 2016)

NCEES has been a really cluster F about communicating changes this year all around.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 2, 2016)

Just want to let people know that I can confirm from two people now that SPAM filters can and do grab the NCEES records reference request emails. Definitely let your references know about this to check their spam folders.


----------



## automatic (Aug 2, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Just want to let people know that I can confirm from two people now that SPAM filters can and do grab the NCEES records reference request emails. Definitely let your references know about this to check their spam folders.


According to NCEES - References are a 1 minute thing......... no big deal..


----------



## automatic (Aug 2, 2016)

automatic said:


> According to NCEES - References are a 1 minute thing......... no big deal..


Confirmed. Reached out to my reference today and he still hadn't gotten the email. Had to ask for his personal email and hopefully it goes through this time. What a PITA to go through this twice.......


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 3, 2016)

My state license verifications showed as pending.  When that hadn't changed over several days, I clicked on them.  It turned out that pending meant that it was waiting for me to initiate the verifications, which in a number of cases meant I had to submit payment and forms to states that I had verified less than a year before.


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 3, 2016)

Well, the answer is in. I need to fill out my prerequisites. 

ldman:


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> Well, the answer is in. I need to fill out my prerequisites.
> 
> ldman:


What prerequisites are these?


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 3, 2016)

School, work history, etc.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

Strange, mine were already filled in for me. The only things I needed were license verification, time gaps, and the questions for applicant section.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Strange frustrating indeed.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

So, the recent newsletter from my home state PE board had a little blurb about how neat the new records and continuing education tracking system was and how awesome NCEES is. Think it's worth complaining to my state board, too?


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 3, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> So, the recent newsletter from my home state PE board had a little blurb about how neat the new records and continuing education tracking system was and how awesome NCEES is. Think it's worth complaining to my state board, too?


An email to them might be worthy. Depending on how responsive they are.


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 3, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> School, work history, etc.


that's BS they already have that info


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 3, 2016)

and they have already transmitted it several times in your case


----------



## kevo_55 (Aug 3, 2016)

15 times to be exact.


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 3, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> 15 times to be exact.


you PE whore you

THat's exactly why that's BS.


----------



## User1 (Aug 3, 2016)

if it helps relieve the frustration at all, the references get an email, click the link, say how long they worked with you, if they managed you, what company, if you're licensed, and whether they're an ethical person. all are yes/no/1 wordish answers. and then a paragraph option of anything else you would like to say. so at least it's not like list x projects in x areas for blah blah. this doesn't negate the argument being made, but if "it is what it is" then it shouldn't be too horrible. It took me less than 2 minutes to submit my response for a coworker. And I think 3/5 have to be licensed PEs?


----------



## User1 (Aug 3, 2016)

but can someone inform me how to migrate from paper records to digital? is there a button somewhere


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

Good info, Julie. According to NCEES all 5 need to be licensed PEs or SEs. I agree though, I think this is overall an improvement for new people signing up for the records system.


----------



## automatic (Aug 3, 2016)

thejulie said:


> but can someone inform me how to migrate from paper records to digital? is there a button somewhere


Several buttons - it's called the keyboard. Take info from the reference form that was submitted 3 months ago and type it in into the new system.


----------



## automatic (Aug 3, 2016)

thejulie said:


> if it helps relieve the frustration at all, the references get an email, click the link, say how long they worked with you, if they managed you, what company, if you're licensed, and whether they're an ethical person. all are yes/no/1 wordish answers. and then a paragraph option of anything else you would like to say. so at least it's not like list x projects in x areas for blah blah. this doesn't negate the argument being made, but if "it is what it is" then it shouldn't be too horrible. It took me less than 2 minutes to submit my response for a coworker. And I think 3/5 have to be licensed PEs?


For Structural Engineers, not a big issue either since you are surrounded by PEs. Not so for many other disciplines. 5 PE references are accumulated over 10-15 years of career. You change jobs, they change jobs......


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

automatic said:


> For Structural Engineers, not a big issue either since you are surrounded by PEs. Not so for many other disciplines. 5 PE references are accumulated over 10-15 years of career. You change jobs, they change jobs......


You should ask NCEES for a reference. There doesn't seem to be a penalty if you go beyond 5 references so I'd say spam the heck out of anyone licensed at NCEES. (Only half joking here. &lt;_&lt; )


----------



## automatic (Aug 3, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> You should ask NCEES for a reference. There doesn't seem to be a penalty if you go beyond 5 references so I'd say spam the heck out of anyone licensed at NCEES. (Only half joking here. &lt;_&lt; )


They have the appropriate SPAM filters programmed in......


----------



## EB NCEES REP (Aug 3, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> You should ask NCEES for a reference. There doesn't seem to be a penalty if you go beyond 5 references so I'd say spam the heck out of anyone licensed at NCEES. (Only half joking here. &lt;_&lt; )


Obviously without having first hand knowledge of your background an engineer at the Council would be unable to fulfill this request.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 3, 2016)

EB NCEES REP said:


> Obviously without having first hand knowledge of your background an engineer at the Council would be unable to fulfill this request.


But since it would _only_ take them a minute to reply back that they can't be a reference then it's totally fine. Let's all add them just in case they might have some first hand knowledge of our background.   It's not like us engineers have anything better to do than fill out frivolous forms, right?


----------



## MI-Roger (Aug 5, 2016)

Glad to read that I am not the only one P-O'ed about this change!

For the as yet uninformed, the following changes took place effective with the early June software update:


Your old log-in ID is no longer valid

You must visit the site and create a new  log-in ID

Your former member number has changed (or so it appears)

With your new log-in you CANNOT view your records

To view your records you must pay the NCEES $175 to move your records from the old system to the new system.  You will then have the capability to edit and update your professional career information.  You remember, the personal career data you collected, compiled, edited, and manually typed into their archaic old database.

After paying the $175 you can request your record to be transmitted to another jurisdiction (actually, you may have to select a jurisdiction first) for additional licensure, and pay that jurisdiction their required fee.

You no longer pay the $25 annual fee

You no longer need to provide annual experience updates

You no longer need to provide annual references

You no longer need to provide information regarding changes in managers, employers, or work assignments

I am 60 years old and do not foresee a need for me to obtain licensure in another jurisdiction during the remainder of my engineering career.  However, I still feel they stole from me by removing my access to my career data that I ENTERED INTO THEIR SYSTEM, and for which I dutifully paid the annual  maintenance dues.  I am taking solace in not needing to pay the $25 annual fee, and not needing to collect &amp; submit the annual update information.

I discovered all this when I contacted the NCEES last week since my council Record renews (or did) in July of each year.  I searched through old emails for anything from NCEES and found one message dated May 30th or thereabouts, informing me the database would be unavailable during June 1 through June 10 for a software update.  No other information was received!  Note: these dates are from memory and may be off by a few days.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 5, 2016)

@MI-Roger, if you want leave a message on NCEES's facebook page. It seems about the only place they regularly read and respond to complaints.


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 5, 2016)

And it costs $75 to send your record to a board.  Just had a fun live chat.  I about choked when they told me I needed to contact NCEES for certain information about my record.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 5, 2016)

If anyone is curious or didn't get it, here's a copy of the email that NCEES claims "warned" us about all this:



> The NCEES Records Program will be unavailable June 11–19 for system enhancements. You will not be able to access your account during this time. As a reminder, all upcoming transmittal requests must be submitted no later than June 10.
> 
> Thank you for your patience as we work to bring you a new and improved system.


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 5, 2016)

They forgot the part about where it was going to take hours of work and over $100 over six weeks to re-verify what had just been done only several months ago.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 5, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> @MI-Roger, if you want leave a message on NCEES's facebook page. It seems about the only place they regularly read and respond to *laugh at *complaints.


Fixt.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 5, 2016)

Hahaha, I stand corrected.


----------



## MI-Roger (Aug 5, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> @MI-Roger, if you want leave a message on NCEES's facebook page. It seems about the only place they regularly read and respond to complaints.


I have sent two very polite emails to NCEES regarding other means to access my data.  Both emails were answered in professional but extremely terse sentences, effectively saying "Sorry Charlie, pay the $175 or go get lost."  I was hoping to access my career data to use it for my PMP Exam registration since my employer has decided that PMP certifications are more valuable to them than PE licenses.  Of course not valuable enough for them to pay for the cost of classes, review materials, and exams!

Luckily I have hard copies of my last experience updates to the NCEES.  Being "Old School" and fixated on hard copy documents can be a benefit sometimes.


----------



## MI-Roger (Aug 5, 2016)

The fallacy of NCEES' logic with their new business model. 

Over the next five years till my retirement the NCEES will receive zero dollars from me. 

Under their old business model they would have received $125 from me during the same time period.

In the unusual event that I actually have a need to access my former information for an additional license, the NCEES will receive $100 from me, The remaining $75 of the required $175 fee is the standard historical transcript fee and therefore a sunk cost.

So they changed the process, frustrated and/or angered thousands of members, and will be losing revenue too.


----------



## Lomarandil (Aug 8, 2016)

On the flip side, as a younger engineer who has set up an NCEES record for future convenience (and because all of that information was already at hand from my PE application process), but is unlikely to use it for several years, the removal of the renewal fee is nice.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 8, 2016)

Lomarandil said:


> On the flip side, as a younger engineer who has set up an NCEES record for future convenience (and because all of that information was already at hand from my PE application process), but is unlikely to use it for several years, the removal of the renewal fee is nice.


Yep, I agree that for anyone just setting up their records account this isn't going to effect them and they'll probably be happy for the changes. That said, given how much NCEES clearly values our thoughts as customers I'd definitely consider just submitting applications the "ol' fashioned way" as needed unless you know you have a lot of states to apply to.


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## MI-Roger (Aug 9, 2016)

Lomarandil said:


> On the flip side, as a younger engineer who has set up an NCEES record for future convenience (and because all of that information was already at hand from my PE application process), but is unlikely to use it for several years, the removal of the renewal fee is nice.


Maybe.  Remember, the State Licensing Boards will want to know your full work and experience history when applying for licensure in additional jurisdictions.  The old method allowed/required you to input those updates annually while they were still fresh in your mind.  With the new system you may go 7 to 10 years before you need your first added licensure.  You will save the $25 annual fee for all those years but then will need to reconstruct your intervening professional history.  And hope like mad that your original data was not lost or corrupted with the database update!.


----------



## automatic (Aug 9, 2016)

I am beyond frustrated!!!!!!!! I have tried two different email addresses for a reference and he is yet to receive the request from NCEES system!!!!! The back and forth with the reference asking him if he received it or not is non productive!!!!


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 9, 2016)

automatic said:


> I am beyond frustrated!!!!!!!! I have tried two different email addresses for a reference and he is yet to receive the request from NCEES system!!!!! The back and forth with the reference asking him if he received it or not is non productive!!!!


NCEES response...pick a different person   j/k


----------



## automatic (Aug 9, 2016)

snickerd3 said:


> NCEES response...pick a different person   j/k


No kidding.... I started a chat with Keshia Weston and this was her exact response. Just change the name and email if it's not going through.....to someone who will provide me a reference.


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 10, 2016)

She's a gem of wisdom.


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## atmuh (Aug 10, 2016)

After a month or so of back and forth I've finally finished all 9 fields of the record submittal and have transmitted it to a state license board. Hopefully this part of the process goes smoothly.


----------



## automatic (Aug 11, 2016)

atmuh said:


> After a month or so of back and forth I've finally finished all 9 fields of the record submittal and have transmitted it to a state license board. Hopefully this part of the process goes smoothly.


Congratulations! I'm two refs away from mine. One is on vacation and should be back and done tomorrow. The other was hospitalized with an illness - he has the email and said he can fill it out soon, but I haven't followed up.

All of them had provided paper references within the last year.

For NCEES: _it's just a one minute thing. And the new system allows you to edit the name and email of the references to our heart's content.... could you do that on paper??? eh? . So whatchu guys complaining about?????? We no understand......bunch of whiners..._


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 12, 2016)

From the NCEES Facebook comment section:

Stefani "Stef" Goodenow NCEES

"Please understand that the hardest part is submitting a new application. Once the application is submitted, then the new system takes over and requests electronic verifications from your sources (state boards, references, and employment respondents)."

No, it doesn't.  The state requests display as "pending", and you need to follow up.  Several of my states required me to send them a form and a fee, again, and the system just sat there without letting me know that "pending" meant it was in my court.  And it couldn't contact my references until I could track them down and get email addresses.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 12, 2016)

In summary, the resulting upgraded NCEES Record system:


----------



## automatic (Aug 12, 2016)

peaon7 said:


> And it couldn't contact my references until I could track them down and get email addresses.


Now all you have to do is a few more things:

1) Keep checking with references until they get the email

2) When they do not, ask them for their private or alternate email addresses

3) Repeat 1

4) Repeat 2

In between check with NCEES if there is any other way to send the reference request form to the reference. Maybe a link? Listen to this reply from them:

1) Your reference is not willing to provide you one

2) Change the name and email of the reference


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 19, 2016)

Well, I'm now down to one reference who has a similar issue of can't seem to get the email... If I actually get this fixed then I can FINALLY submit my application. It's only like a month and a half later than I wanted...


----------



## knight1fox3 (Aug 19, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Well, I'm now down to one reference who has a similar issue of can't seem to get the email... If I actually get this fixed then I can FINALLY submit my application. It's only like a month and a half later than I wanted...


Clearly you're doing something wrong as NCEES has indicated this procedure takes only minutes. And the appropriate recourse for a non-responsive reference is to simply find another reference. /sarcasm

:lmao:


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 19, 2016)

OH MY FUCKING WORD!

So, after months of getting this setup I have my final reference. I click "submit for review/transmittal" AND IT THEN LETS ME KNOW THAT MY WORK HISTORY IS PENDING A REVIEW BY NCEES BEFORE TRANSMITTAL!!!!!!!!

WHY THE LIVING FUCK CAN'T YOU HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE?!!? WHY?! DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS ISN'T A PROBLEM NCEES?!?!

(I'm a little upset at their new system if you can't tell...)


----------



## automatic (Aug 21, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> OH MY FUCKING WORD!
> 
> So, after months of getting this setup I have my final reference. I click "submit for review/transmittal" AND IT THEN LETS ME KNOW THAT MY WORK HISTORY IS PENDING A REVIEW BY NCEES BEFORE TRANSMITTAL!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


WHAT????? OK... I'm still waiting on my final reference (who is recovering from an open heart bypass). So even after that there are many more weeks of NCEES crap before this thing gets transmitted......


----------



## peaon7 (Aug 22, 2016)

And then you have to follow up with the states.  Don't think that the system is doing it.  Click on everything on the Dashboard and double check.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 22, 2016)

peaon7 said:


> And then you have to follow up with the states.  Don't think that the system is doing it.  Click on everything on the Dashboard and double check.


Thankfully you can do that part while you wait for references so I got that taken care of.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Aug 24, 2016)

Oh, oh, oh, is it finally done? I don't know! It says "Initial transmittal in progress, additional transmittals available after initial is completed."

I love how even when you're "done" you _still_ have to wait for some unknown reason.


----------



## pdids911 (Sep 9, 2016)

last thing for me - i've been waiting a month for NJ to confirm that I passed the FE. 

But CT already confirmed I passed the PE. 

...


----------



## automatic (Sep 13, 2016)

My record finally transmitted. It was stuck in "Initial Transmittal in Progress..." for a few days. I contacted them and within an hour it changed to Transmitted. I guess another system glitch. So if you are stuck there for a few days, contact them so that they can manually push it through...... it is labor intensive.. (no pun intended)...

Now, it appears that my saga with NCEES may be done. Whether or not California receives this transmittal and if/when I will hear anything from them is whole another story......................


----------



## matt267 PE (Sep 13, 2016)

How's the class action suit coming along?


----------



## knight1fox3 (Sep 13, 2016)




----------



## kevo_55 (Sep 13, 2016)




----------



## Ble_PE (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm just catching up with this and can't believe what the NCEES did to their Records program! Fortunately I got my last license application out prior to the migration of the data, but I don't see myself using them anymore after this. If they can't support the existing Records holders any better than they have up to this point, then they won't be getting any more of my money.


----------



## peaon7 (Sep 14, 2016)

automatic said:


> My record finally transmitted.


Don't count on it.  Keep checking the recipient until they tell you they actually got it.


----------



## automatic (Sep 14, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> How's the class action suit coming along?


A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?


----------



## automatic (Sep 14, 2016)

peaon7 said:


> Don't count on it.  Keep checking the recipient until they tell you they actually got it.


Unfortunately, I don't think that's an option with CA. I just have to send everything in and hope to hear back from them.


----------



## matt267 PE (Sep 14, 2016)

automatic said:


> A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?


No thanks, I'm just here for the comments.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Sep 14, 2016)

automatic said:


> A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?


How many do you have on board with this so far?


----------



## smahurin (Sep 15, 2016)

automatic said:


> A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?


Errr... I don't want to discount people's frustration with the new system, but you're really trying to sue a company because an optional service they offer isn't user friendly?


----------



## Ken PE 3.1 (Sep 15, 2016)

smahurin said:


> > On 9/14/2016 at 10:48 AM, automatic said: A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?
> 
> 
> Errr... I don't want to discount people's frustration with the new system, but you're really trying to sue a company because an optional service they offer isn't user friendly?


Yes.


----------



## Road Guy (Sep 15, 2016)

If you want to transfer a license to some states (like Texas) you have to go through nceeeeesssss so it's not totally optional


----------



## Ken PE 3.1 (Sep 15, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> If you want to transfer a license to some states (like Texas) you have to go through nceeeeesssss so it's not totally optional


Along with a few others. Seems more states are jumping onboard.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 11, 2016)

automatic said:


> A letter of intent to sue is being filed. Want to join?


I'd be interested; what's involved in joining in on this and what would I potentially be dragging myself into if NCEES didn't immediately back down?

Further, what's the goal? If it's just to request money from them then I don't see the point. If it's to force them to revise their system to streamline the legacy account transfer into the new system then I fully approve.


----------



## matt267 PE (Oct 11, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> what's the goal?


Maybe a voucher for one free exam?


----------



## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 11, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> Maybe a voucher for one free exam?


Make it a voucher to pass one exam for free and I might do that. 

Actually, it wouldn't be a terrible compromise if NCEES left the system the way it is but gave a voucher that paid for all the expenses of transmitting to the first state you desire (including the fees to the state board).


----------



## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 11, 2016)

I just started the experience of trying to transmit my record to my first new state.

I was informed, after inquiring, that the migration will be completed in a day but it can take 2-5 weeks to process all new information needed to complete the process.

What was the point of jumping through hoops the first go around in getting a record number?


----------



## snickerd3 (Oct 11, 2016)

they essentially lost all the old information and have to start over for everyone.


----------



## peaon7 (Oct 11, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> I just started the experience of trying to transmit my record to my first new state.
> 
> I was informed, after inquiring, that the migration will be completed in a day but it can take 2-5 weeks to process all new information needed to complete the process.
> 
> What was the point of jumping through hoops the first go around in getting a record number?


Actually the record number changes too.


----------



## kevo_55 (Oct 11, 2016)

Just got this email from NCEES:

NCEES is committed to providing quality products and services to facilitate mobility for professional engineers, surveyors, and our 70 member boards. We fell short of this commitment with the recent upgrades to our Records program. Longtime Record holders like you are among our most valued customers and I regret that we failed to anticipate and meet your expectations.

In order to meet the current needs of our member boards, the information contained within an NCEES Record must be updated to an electronic format. We recognize the frustration this has caused and are working hard to improve the process.

On October 12, we will launch a software update that will allow NCEES to transfer most of your existing information into the new system. You will no longer be required to re-submit and re-verify most of the documentation that was submitted as part of your original application. This will significantly reduce the amount of time and effort required to re-establish your Record in the new system.

Our records indicate you are currently in the process of re-establishing your information in the new system. If you would like to take advantage of the improved process, please send an email request to [email protected]. Include your name, 7-digit account ID number, and the state to which you need to transmit your Record. Any information you have already updated will be retained and become a part of your re-established Record. Please let us know if you are currently seeking comity licensure and have an immediate need to transmit your Record.

Whether you choose to take advantage of the improved process or choose to continue manually updating your information, we have waived the fee for your first transmittal in the new system. Again, I'm sorry we failed to meet your expectations. We take great pride in offering quality services and we are committed to providing the best level of customer service we can to our customers.

Sincerely,

Jerry Carter
NCEES Chief Executive Officer

I suppose that they understand that they dropped the ball.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> I suppose that they understand that they dropped the ball.


Just saw this letter from a similar post on eng-tips. Some very interesting thing; first the fact that it took _this_ long for them to even acknowledged that something was ever wrong. Second, interesting that it's the CEO writing that email; at least they're taking it seriously now.

Third, at least they appear to be doing the right things. Not an apology or small token, but actually attempting to solve the problem. That's definitely a step in the right direction but waiting months to even start attempting to fix it, with many of us already having gone through the trouble of updating, is not quality customer service. It's late average customer service. Put me solidly in the camp of "this helps but the damage is done".

Finally.



kevo_55 said:


> Whether you choose to take advantage of the improved process or choose to continue manually updating your information, we have waived the fee for your first transmittal in the new system.


Thanks for sharing; hopefully they don't mind you sharing the email but I'm VERY tempted to email them asking "since you're handing out refunds, please refund the transmittal fee I had to spend to get the new records setup".


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 11, 2016)

I just started TODAY to try and do all this stuff. What a mess they created for everyone involved.

Wish I would have seen this before I started though, may have waited a day to log in.

Oh well, when it's all said and done I will have the _privilege_ (read: *headache*) of being licensed in 11 states.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> Just got this email from NCEES:
> 
> I suppose that they understand that they dropped the ball.


Wow, thanks for sharing that @kevo_55! I can honestly say I was not expecting that kind of response from NCEES. Finally some acknowledgement to an under-performing upgrade process for existing record holders!


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## kevo_55 (Oct 11, 2016)

I must admit, I still have half of my junk filled out and I am very interested in them just completing it for me.

On the other hand, this whole process gave me a bad taste in my mouth and a part of me just wants to just say fuck them and just not use the service.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> I must admit, I still have half of my junk filled out and I am very interested in them just completing it for me.
> 
> On the other hand, this whole process gave me a bad taste in my mouth and a part of me just wants to just say fuck them and just not use the service.


Except for those states that require an NCEES record...


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> On the other hand, this whole process gave me a bad taste in my mouth and a part of me just wants to just say fuck them and just not use the service.


This was the route I was planning to go once they tried to hit me up for renewal. Or whatever they planned to do since there was no longer an annual fee.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 11, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Except for those states that require an NCEES record...


That would not be my problem, but rather my employer's.


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## kevo_55 (Oct 11, 2016)

Meh...

I'm already registered in the entire western zone.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> Meh...
> 
> I'm already registered in the entire western zone.






knight1fox3 said:


> This was the route I was planning to go once they tried to hit me up for renewal. Or whatever they planned to do since there was no longer an annual fee.


Even with this effort by NCEES, I fully support your mentality. If I didn't actually need an NCEES account (my references are VERY hard to get to respond in a timely manner) I would have done the same. It's almost insulting that NCEES still lists this on their website:



> Records FAQs
> 
> 
> *How will and NCEES Record benefit me?*
> ...


Knowing they care this little about their customers I'm totally supportive of anyone who can avoid them for the future.


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## Maji (Oct 11, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> Just got this email from NCEES:
> 
> NCEES is committed to providing quality products and services to facilitate mobility for professional engineers, surveyors, and our 70 member boards. We fell short of this commitment with the recent upgrades to our Records program. Longtime Record holders like you are among our most valued customers and I regret that we failed to anticipate and meet your expectations.
> 
> ...


Got that email and already emailed them asking them to upgrade my account using their magic software.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 13, 2016)

So, I get an email letting me know that my records are updated and complete. I go to the system to transmit it to a new state and wham-o, I need my employment verified because the system did not import "current employer" into the new program.

So I now have to wait for NCEES to review my record and send an email to my boss to verify that I still work.

I believe that they would have had to purposefully go out of their way to make this more complicated than they did. It should not have to be this complicated. I just went through all of this in December to get a record number in the first place.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 13, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> So, I get an email letting me know that my records are updated and complete. I go to the system to transmit it to a new state and wham-o, I need my employment verified because the system did not import "current employer" into the new program.
> 
> So I now have to wait for NCEES to review my record and send an email to my boss to verify that I still work.
> 
> I believe that they would have had to purposefully go out of their way to make this more complicated than they did. It should not have to be this complicated. I just went through all of this in December to get a record number in the first place.


I had the same experience Ken. After I was done and everything was supposedly ready to go and I click transmit suddenly things need to be submitted and verified. Absolutely ridiculous, the whole point of this service is it's fast and you don't have to constantly be resubmitting records. Clearly whoever setup the new system has no clue what we actually use the system for.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 13, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> > 1 minute ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: So, I get an email letting me know that my records are updated and complete. I go to the system to transmit it to a new state and wham-o, I need my employment verified because the system did not import "current employer" into the new program. So I now have to wait for NCEES to review my record and send an email to my boss to verify that I still work.
> >
> > I believe that they would have had to purposefully go out of their way to make this more complicated than they did. It should not have to be this complicated. I just went through all of this in December to get a record number in the first place.
> 
> ...


It should have been so much better. #failed


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## matt267 PE (Oct 13, 2016)

I'm just happy my NCEES record still says "PASS."


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 13, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> I'm just happy my NCEES record still says "PASS."


Obviously you have not tried to use the record system to get licensed outside of RI


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## matt267 PE (Oct 13, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Obviously you have not tried to use the record system to get licensed outside of RI


You are correct.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 17, 2016)

How long does it take to verify work that was previously verified and accepted? :brickwall:


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 17, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> How long does it take to verify work that was previously verified and accepted? :brickwall:


Took about a week for me.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 17, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> > 53 minutes ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: How long does it take to verify work that was previously verified and accepted? :brickwall:
> 
> 
> Took about a week for me.


I am on a time crunch with my boss, and I mistakingly told him that this wouldn't be to bad. Boy was I wrong.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Oct 17, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> I am on a time crunch with my boss, and I mistakingly told him that this wouldn't be to bad. Boy was I wrong.


Yeah, I have no idea why NCEES does this final work review and why it couldn't be done before submitting.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 17, 2016)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> > 43 minutes ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: I am on a time crunch with my boss, and I mistakingly told him that this wouldn't be to bad. Boy was I wrong.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have no idea why NCEES does this final work review and why it couldn't be done before submitting.


Or at least concurrently.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Oct 31, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> I believe that they would have had to purposefully go out of their way to make this more complicated than they did. It should not have to be this complicated. I just went through all of this in December to get a record number in the first place.


I had an old record that was used more than once. I had my account linked with the new myNCEES system. I just paid $75 to have a transmittal sent to Illinois. Now the status on myNCEES reads: " *Pending – Migrating your prior existing account* " What should I expect to happen next? How long has this stage taken other people? Is this the new software update referenced in the posts above?


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 31, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> > On 10/13/2016 at 10:33 AM, Ken PE 3.0 said: I believe that they would have had to purposefully go out of their way to make this more complicated than they did. It should not have to be this complicated. I just went through all of this in December to get a record number in the first place.
> 
> 
> I had an old record that was used more than once. I had my account linked with the new myNCEES system. I just paid $75 to have a transmittal sent to Illinois. Now the status on myNCEES reads: " *Pending – Migrating your prior existing account* " What should I expect to happen next? How long has this stage taken other people? Is this the new software update referenced in the posts above?


I never used the old system but itwas created.

I had to have all my contacts reply to an email the system generated. Then, the migration does not transfer your current employer properly so i had to update all that and have my boss reply to an email. Then NCEES reviews it and transfers it.

It was about a week for my stuff to clear, more hassle than headache. It just seems that it should have been smoother.

I started transferring stuff on the 17th and I have already got a couple of licenses and notification of pending approvals on the rest.

I had to do 10 states in short order due to personnel issues in the office. Fun times!


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Oct 31, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> I had to do 10 states in short order due to personnel issues in the office. Fun times!


That sounds awful.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 31, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> > 3 minutes ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: I had to do 10 states in short order due to personnel issues in the office. Fun times!
> 
> 
> That sounds awful.


More annoying than anything. A lot of hurry up and wait.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Nov 2, 2016)

So you were right, I called NCEES to ask about this status. The lady was not very helpful and was generally apathetic. But she did say it takes 2-3 weeks then they will tell me what they want me to resubmit. But from reading this board, I'm expecting that it will likely be almost everything.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Nov 2, 2016)

They said 2-3 weeks to me as well, but it only took a week.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Nov 4, 2016)

Update on my process,

I submitted to 10 states for registration on the week of Oct. 17th. So far, I have received 2 certificates in the mail, 1 notification of acceptance, 2 notifications of certificates in the mail and 1 that I had to buy a stamp to complete the process. Texas, Georgia and Pennsylvania are the hold outs. It should go without saying that Pennsylvania, at this point in time, is in last place per online 'progress' webpages.

Hopefully this will all be completed in short order so I can do actual engineering work.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Nov 28, 2016)

I paid to have my record transmitted on October 31. As of today I still cannot transmit my record. I called NCEES to ask what is going on, apparently if you e-mail [email protected] they can help you speed it up. I'm not sure why they decided to with a process that is so labor intensive on their part, but I guess that is a side-effect of being an quasi-government organization. They were able to pass my old work experience through the system (seriously how long dos it take to approve a simple date change?). Now I'm just waiting for my current employment to get approved. It's silly that those can't be submitted at the same time.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Nov 29, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> I paid to have my record transmitted on October 31. As of today I still cannot transmit my record. I called NCEES to ask what is going on, apparently if you e-mail [email protected] they can help you speed it up. I'm not sure why they decided to with a process that is so labor intensive on their part, but I guess that is a side-effect of being an quasi-government organization. They were able to pass my old work experience through the system (seriously how long dos it take to approve a simple date change?). Now I'm just waiting for my current employment to get approved. It's silly that those can't be submitted at the same time.


I thought the same thing.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Nov 29, 2016)

On the flip side, I have been issued a license number in 9 out of the 10 states I applied for.

I am still waiting on wall certificates from a couple, but the number is in the system.

C'mon Texas, you disappointed me. I had my money on another state to be the lone wolf.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 3, 2016)

The process is over. I got an email this morning from Texas. About 8 weeks to get comity in 10 states.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 3, 2016)

My record was finally completed yesterday. I really believe if I hadn't been e-mailing them, it would've taken another month or more. In any case I was able to send in my application to Illinois.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 3, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> My record was finally completed yesterday. I really believe if I hadn't been e-mailing them, it would've taken another month or more. In any case I was able to send in my application to Illinois.


It took them that long to update your record? Did someone drop the ball on employment/reference emails?


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 4, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> It took them that long to update your record? Did someone drop the ball on employment/reference emails?


No....it's the new "more efficient" process. Here is the full story.

I had a previous record that they had to "copy over." They pulled in contact info, personal info, who my references were (though the old reference doesn't matter), work experience, and education transcripts. The education transcripts were relatively easy nothing really need to be done. But the process took about 2 weeks. Then I sent out the new professional reference requests. All my references sent it back that day or the next day. My work experience was a different matter. They had the end date of my previous employer as Feb XX. I left in May XX. I had previously submitted forms for my new employer which were not pulled over (started June XX) to present. I added the new employer, the system then said I had a gap from Feb to May, so I had to go back to the first employer and change the date. That had to be submitted for NCEES' review before it could go to my old supervisor for approval even though content didn't change, just date. They told me on the phone 1-2 weeks. After 2 weeks I called again they said they are running behind and it might be another 1-2 weeks, but I could request assistance by sending an e-mail to [email protected] I sent that e-mail and they were very helpful within a day they completed the review (she said they moved it up in the queue). In the meantime there is no way to submit the new employer for review until the old employer is reviewed, so you go to the back of the line again. My old supervisor confirmed the e-mail within a day and I put my new employer in the queue. So I submitted my new employer at that point, it went in the queue. By this point, I was just e-mailing [email protected], she was very helpful. Then it went to my current supervisor, she couldn't open the e-mail in internet explorer, it kept crashing. So she had to do it from home through Chrome. That got done in a couple days. Then as if that isn't enough, your record then goes back in the queue AGAIN to be reviewed by NCEES before it can actually be transmitted to the state. Again _ _I e-mailed [email protected] and she was able to bump it up in the queue.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 4, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> > 20 hours ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: It took them that long to update your record? Did someone drop the ball on employment/reference emails?
> 
> 
> No....it's the new "more efficient" process. Here is the full story.I had a previous record that they had to "copy over." They pulled in contact info, personal info, who my references were (though the old reference doesn't matter), work experience, and education transcripts. The education transcripts were relatively easy nothing really need to be done. But the process took about 2 weeks. Then I sent out the new professional reference requests. All my references sent it back that day or the next day. My work experience was a different matter. They had the end date of my previous employer as Feb XX. I left in May XX. I had previously submitted forms for my new employer which were not pulled over (started June XX) to present. I added the new employer, the system then said I had a gap from Feb to May, so I had to go back to the first employer and change the date. That had to be submitted for NCEES' review before it could go to my old supervisor for approval even though content didn't change, just date. They told me on the phone 1-2 weeks. After 2 weeks I called again they said they are running behind and it might be another 1-2 weeks, but I could request assistance by sending an e-mail to [email protected] I sent that e-mail and they were very helpful within a day they completed the review (she said they moved it up in the queue). In the meantime there is no way to submit the new employer for review until the old employer is reviewed, so you go to the back of the line again. My old supervisor confirmed the e-mail within a day and I put my new employer in the queue. So I submitted my new employer at that point, it went in the queue. By this point, I was just e-mailing [email protected], she was very helpful. Then it went to my current supervisor, she couldn't open the e-mail in internet explorer, it kept crashing. So she had to do it from home through Chrome. That got done in a couple days. Then as if that isn't enough, your record then goes back in the queue AGAIN to be reviewed by NCEES before it can actually be transmitted to the state. Again _ _I e-mailed [email protected] and she was able to bump it up in the queue.


At least mine wasn't that bad. Geesh. The waiting for the review/next step is total bs. I had to reconfirm my current employer due to the last time they got my paperwork was 8 months ago. But, at least I hadn't changed employers in the interim.

Glad to hear its all done for you.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 5, 2016)

I had sent in my new employer about a year ago under the old system as well. I had used my record a couple times and none of the boards said anything about that missing, but when they copied it over to the new system, my new employer wasn't there.


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## allgood (Dec 22, 2016)

Anyone ever seen the questions that are on the experience verification form that is sent to the supervisors at previous/current jobs?


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## Mangano (Dec 22, 2016)

allgood said:


> Anyone ever seen the questions that are on the experience verification form that is sent to the supervisors at previous/current jobs?


I'd like to know this as well.  Is the review process very stringent?  So far, I've copied my resume info into all the fields.  I really don't feel like explaining projects.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 23, 2016)

Mangano said:


> > 4 hours ago, allgood said: Anyone ever seen the questions that are on the experience verification form that is sent to the supervisors at previous/current jobs?
> 
> 
> I'd like to know this as well.  Is the review process very stringent?  So far, I've copied my resume info into all the fields.  I really don't feel like explaining projects.


Explaining projects is all part of the process. Just imagine what you would need to do if there was no records program.


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## allgood (Dec 23, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Explaining projects is all part of the process. Just imagine what you would need to do if there was no records program.


You'd have to do this for every state you wanted to get licensed in. I just copied and pasted what I had prepared for my original application with VA. It's been pretty simple actually, just trying to find the "supervisors" to sign off now. Unlike NCEES Records, the VA application doesn't require the person who's signing off on the experience verification forms to be a PE, at least not for my application to sit for the PE.


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## Mangano (Jan 6, 2017)

Does anyone have advice on how in-depth the Representative Projects section needs to be?  I wrote a general paragraph for each Work Experience section (~100 words each).  The instructions are below, but I've worked on well over 100 projects/year since I started my career.  Choosing one wouldn't do it justice.


Representative Projects


Provide pertinent project information illustrating progressive experience. Discuss your role in project design, implementation, and/or operation. (700 words max)


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