# California PE Engagement / Record Requirements



## 32OVY32 (Jul 11, 2011)

First and foremost, I am in California

Passed the EIT last October and I have completed the required work experience to qualify to take the PE (electrical).

Problem is I work for a small consulting firm, I work directly under the PE (only one works for the company) with one other engineer who is not a PE and the owner. I didn't review the instructions very carefully and when I had my PE sign off a few days before my application was due he asked what other PEs were going to sign for me. This was a surprise to me because when I read through the instructions the first time I thought I only needed 1 PE and 3 references from supervisors.

Taking a second look at the instructions it appeared that he was correct that I needed 4 PEs to sign.

Taking a third look at it now (after the due date for filing) and reviewing other forum posts I am now confused.

According to the "Professional Engineer Engagement Record and Reference Form Instructions" on the PELS website:



A minimum of four references are required.
A reference for each engagement claimed as qualifying experience is required.

*A reference must be a licensed Professional Engineer in the same discipline for which you are applying, except as noted below. *

References must be persons who are technically qualified to appraise your skills as an engineer.
NOTE:
Individuals who are applying for licensure as an Electrical Engineer may submit references from licensed Civil
Engineers or from individuals exempt from licensure as an Electrical Engineer, as well as from licensed Electrical
Engineers.
I trying to figure out if "A reference must be a licensed Professional Engineer..." means in order to qualify to be a reference it is required that they are a PE or if it means one of the four references is required to be a PE.

Keep in mind that I have only one engagement (I have only worked for one company).

In short, would 1 PE and 3 supervisors qualify to verify my work experience?

Thank you


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## solomonb (Jul 11, 2011)

California Dude-- I am NOT in California, and have not read the California rules. However, from the fact pattern that you have submitted, my interpretation of California rules is that you would need 4 PE's to sign your forms. In many states, a PE applicant must have 5 references, 3 of which are licensed professional engineers.

My advice is to call the California board and ask the question! No reason for embarassment, if your not sure, ask! However, I believe that you will need 4 PE's to sign your form.

Now, the next question, where are you going to find them if only one works for your firm? If you have been at this firm for 4 years, you obviously have worked with clients that are probably PE's. If this is true, then ask them to provide a reference for you, provided that they know your work and know you. Unfortunately, this is more challenging than it might appear, however, you have probably worked on several different projects with multiple clients. Hopefully, there is at least one or more PE's at your client firms that can attest to your professional and ethical competency.

If the application date has passed, you may have forced yourself to take the test in April 2012 if the test you are taking is given semi annually. If not, you will have to wait until October 2012!

The object lesson learned here is this whole PE process is one that takes a fair amount of time. I suggest if you have to delay, you get on the stick and get all of the documentation together and submitted so you are not in a corner again. I don't know if you are in a corner, however, if the application date is passed, I think that you will have to delay until the next test administration date after October 2011.

Good Luck on your endeavors-- let us know what transpires.


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## palvarez83 (Jul 12, 2011)

Yes, I would ask your clients to be references assuming you have had PE or simply people you have done business with. Yes, they have to be PEs unless you work for an except industry( which you don't according to your description) or you are taking an exam in a "non-restricted" practice such as control systems, fire protection, industrial, ect....which you are not. Remember if you are qualifying for electrical the reference can be either Electrical or Civil. Note anyone who is a Structural or Geo-technical in CA is also a Civil. Even if the deadline has passed. The board will let you rectify the situation. Just call them. The problem will be if you wait for them to notice it and then they give you like a week before the exam to fix it... an if you don't they keep half of your exam fee and refund the other half a few month later.... just before it is time to pay again.


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## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2011)

32OVY32 said:


> First and foremost, I am in CaliforniaPassed the EIT last October and I have completed the required work experience to qualify to take the PE (electrical).
> 
> Problem is I work for a small consulting firm, I work directly under the PE (only one works for the company) with one other engineer who is not a PE and the owner. I didn't review the instructions very carefully and when I had my PE sign off a few days before my application was due he asked what other PEs were going to sign for me. This was a surprise to me because when I read through the instructions the first time I thought I only needed 1 PE and 3 references from supervisors.
> 
> ...



Sorry but I don't see any confusion or alternate interpretations. You need a minimum of 4 PEs to sign as your references. Also, one company doesn't mean only one engagement. My 4 engagements were from 2 employers. Good luck.


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## Trev... P.E. (Jul 15, 2011)

32OVY32 said:


> A minimum of four references are required.
> A reference for each engagement claimed as qualifying experience is required.
> 
> *A reference must be a licensed Professional Engineer in the same discipline for which you are applying, except as noted below. *
> ...


Are you in an exempt industry? ie a manufacturing firm or such? If so then you can submit references from exempt EE's such as yourself. If you're not exempt yourself, you'll need PEs. At least that's my interpretation.


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## ciengineer (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for the original post, I have this very same question (I'm also from California). I assumed that this was true, that California PE applicants need a minimum of 4 PE references. HOWEVER, I have a friend who got his mechanical license last year who only had 1 PE reference and the rest were engineers. One explanation that I've heard is that the board is more strict about civil/structural applicants than for mechanical or electrical. Also, it seems like experience in an engineering job is more important than having a PE ref. I'm also attaching a flow chart that my friend found which outlines various paths that one can take to apply for their license. In this chart, the fact that you can document 24 months of engineering work is enough to quality for the license. Let me know what you think.

-Corey



32OVY32 said:


> First and foremost, I am in CaliforniaPassed the EIT last October and I have completed the required work experience to qualify to take the PE (electrical).
> 
> Problem is I work for a small consulting firm, I work directly under the PE (only one works for the company) with one other engineer who is not a PE and the owner. I didn't review the instructions very carefully and when I had my PE sign off a few days before my application was due he asked what other PEs were going to sign for me. This was a surprise to me because when I read through the instructions the first time I thought I only needed 1 PE and 3 references from supervisors.
> 
> ...


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## ciengineer (Aug 2, 2011)

The application states you can get references from those who are "exempt from licensure", but I can't seem to figure out who is exempt?


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## palvarez83 (Aug 2, 2011)

I read this a couple years ago so the definition may have been updated... Except industries are: government employees, aerospace, or telecommunications.


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## Trev... P.E. (Aug 4, 2011)

palvarez83 said:


> I read this a couple years ago so the definition may have been updated... Except industries are: government employees, aerospace, or telecommunications.


If you and your references' firms are principally involved in performing engineering work for manufacturing or industrial corporations in connection with their products then they are also exempt from licensure.


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