# I failed October 2016 Power PE - please assist



## Owism (Dec 9, 2016)

Hello everyone,

First and foremost I'd like to thank everyone for the rollercoaster ride while waiting for the exam results. 

Please list what reference books you used during the exam.  I heard "least is best" so I limited myself to a few instead of flipping through too many books:


Power Reference Manual - Camara

NEC 2014

Spin UP practice exams - practiced 2 of these exams... passed both with 75%.

NEC Practice exam

School of PE notes and Solutions

Graffeo book - I referenced this one the most in the exam but never beforehand

I know there are multiple threads everywhere on this but I figure someone has already seen that, so I'll just ask you to list the link here.

Thanks for your assistance.

MY background : Im not a practicing power engineer, but I do have an electrical engineering education (small circuits). This was the first time I was exposed to Transmission, Generators, and majority of the items on the exam. I took the School PE course and it taught me alot. I figure I need to practice more how "per units" work and get the NESC book.  Any advice of yours is appreciated. My diagnostic is attached but I have no idea what to make of it. The topics are so generalized I dont know which problems to practice for each to get better. Any thoughts are welcome

Thanks


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## Phatso86 (Dec 9, 2016)

as a non electrical engineer who passed the first try, I could provide tips that would help immensely


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## Kalika PE (Dec 10, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> as a non electrical engineer who passed the first try, I could provide tips that would help immensely


I failed my first try and was expecting the outcome due to my performance in the exam. Any tips would be helpful to pass on the second try. Thanks in advance @Phatso86

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trainrider (Dec 11, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> as a non electrical engineer who passed the first try, I could provide tips that would help immensely


Please do share with group or PM me.


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## trainrider (Dec 11, 2016)

Here are some good study tips.

View attachment RULES OF GOOD STUDYING.docx


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## bmatthews15 (Dec 11, 2016)

Hi,

I recently passed the Oct 2016 exam on my third attempt.

I used roughly the same references you did, BUT I will emphasize that you should read the Graffeo book front to back and tab it. I didn't the first time and realized it had a lot of valuable information....if you know where to find it. The index isn't too helpful.

Also, did you have the NEC handbook? If not, get one.

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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 12, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> as a non electrical engineer who passed the first try, I could provide tips that would help immensely


This is terrifying.


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## Phatso86 (Dec 14, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> This is terrifying.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 14, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> View attachment 9022


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 14, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> > On 12/12/2016 at 0:22 AM, cupojoe PE PMP said: This is terrifying.
> 
> 
> /monthly_2016_12/hater.jpg.21ffcc5e97b106bd52d77a0a724102c3.jpg


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## Phatso86 (Dec 15, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


>


the jealousy is hilarious and pathetic all at once.  :tv:


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## Phatso86 (Dec 15, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


>


the jealousy is hilarious and pathetic all at once.  :tv:


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 15, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> the jealousy is hilarious and pathetic all at once.  :tv:


Let me see if I understand your test taking abilities.

1) Ask "simple" questions, then argue with everyone who takes the time to give you an answer.

2) Take exam.

3) Whine and complain about how awful the exam was due to the nature of the exam you took being theoretical.

4) Manage a passing score outside of your knowledge base.

5) Boast on EB.

6) Offer to assist others who want to take the exam.

Yeah, I see lots to be jealous about in that list.


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## Owism (Dec 15, 2016)

ok im not benefiting from this...


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 15, 2016)

Owism said:


> ok im not benefiting from this...


Not having the education/experience with transmission lines makes this test a lot more difficult.

It looks like the books you took to the exam did not include anything that is directly related to T&amp;D.

You might want to find a used textbook on power systems and try to work your way through it.


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## Owism (Dec 15, 2016)

Thanks, would that be Grainger book? Power Systems Analysis?


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Dec 15, 2016)

Owism said:


> ok im not benefiting from this...


That is one of them. Widi's book seemed to me to be easier to read and better for the test, but that is subject to debate. Both obviously covers more bases.

I went with the "more is better" mentality.

If you have something that covers 3 phase transmission topics, your confidence level will imporve.


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Dec 15, 2016)

I would say Grainger and Wildi are complimentary. They cover similar power topics in different ways. Grainger has a lot more theory and "engineering school" type instruction. Wildi is more applied. I would recommend getting both for this exam.


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## lisfs (Dec 15, 2016)

cupojoe PE PMP said:


> I would say Grainger and Wildi are complimentary. They cover similar power topics in different ways. Grainger has a lot more theory and "engineering school" type instruction. Wildi is more applied. I would recommend getting both for this exam.


Would you please let me know exactly which Grainger and Wildi books to get?  I tried searching on Amazon and both came up multiple.  I am not sure which one to get.  I just found out I failed again and this time the score was even lower than before.  I've been out of school for about 25 years; never worked for a power industry, but only attempting to take the PE, because I'm now working for a company that gives incentive to PE.  I wanted to take electronics, but found that there are not much study material so I opted for power instead.  It seems like the more I try, the more failure I feel :-(


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## SNAPE/SMOTT PE (Dec 15, 2016)

OldenEngineer said:


> Would you please let me know exactly which Grainger and Wildi books to get?  I tried searching on Amazon and both came up multiple.  I am not sure which one to get.  I just found out I failed again and this time the score was even lower than before.  I've been out of school for about 25 years; never worked for a power industry, but only attempting to take the PE, because I'm now working for a company that gives incentive to PE.  I wanted to take electronics, but found that there are not much study material so I opted for power instead.  It seems like the more I try, the more failure I feel :-(


I can't help with which books to get, but I can on advice. Being that you are not fresh out of school, have you looked into review courses? Maybe finding a study partner?


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## lisfs (Dec 15, 2016)

SNAPE/SMOTT PE said:


> I can't help with which books to get, but I can on advice. Being that you are not fresh out of school, have you looked into review courses? Maybe finding a study partner?


I took the GA Tech online course before my 2nd try and I was able to gain some more points.  This past Fall PE power exam had a lot of things that I had not seen before.


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## knight1fox3 (Dec 15, 2016)

OldenEngineer said:


> Would you please let me know exactly which Grainger and Wildi books to get?  I tried searching on Amazon and both came up multiple.  I am not sure which one to get.  I just found out I failed again and this time the score was even lower than before.  I've been out of school for about 25 years; never worked for a power industry, but only attempting to take the PE, because I'm now working for a company that gives incentive to PE.  I wanted to take electronics, but found that there are not much study material so I opted for power instead.  It seems like the more I try, the more failure I feel :-(


The information in this link still applies:  



As for the books, I found the 2nd edition of the PSA book to be more helpful than the 3rd. The Wildi book is also very good. The link I provided is the revision I used but I believe there is a newer one. Elec Machinery and Pwr Sys Fundamentals by Stephen Chapman is another good one.


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## lisfs (Dec 15, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> The information in this link still applies:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the books, I found the 2nd edition of the PSA book to be more helpful than the 3rd. The Wildi book is also very good. The link I provided is the revision I used but I believe there is a newer one. Elec Machinery and Pwr Sys Fundamentals by Stephen Chapman is another good one.


Thanks Knight!


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## AAGR2013 (Dec 15, 2016)

I just received pass confirmation on 1st try after many years out of school. Your reference is good enough, no need more. You may need create a cheating sheet, not only formulas, but also hint for solving different type problem, for instance, "transmission and distribution" subject you get the lowest score, after read all your reference book and problem practicing, you shall categorize how many type problem in this subject. You may need strengthen the skills on summarizing and comprising. Meanwhile, taking advantage of the forum, post your question, there are a lot of helpful people here! 

Once again, sincerely appreciate the forum and those responded my questions, you are really nice! 

View attachment NCEES exam answer link.xlsx


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## jmitch23 (Jan 5, 2017)

I barely (if ever) used the Camara book for studying, but absolutely abused it during the practice and live exams.

I also recommend the Complex Imaginary exam books. I didn't have time to use the NEC code drill book and passed all the same, but I've heard good things about it.

You'll definitely want a copy of the NESC. It'll turn a couple of questions into easy layups.

Track down a good circuits textbook, a good power systems textbook, and a good machinery (motors and generators) textbooks. I brought the 7th edition of Electric Circuits by Nilsson and Riedel, the 4th edition of Power Systems Analysis and Design by Glover, Sarma, and Overbye, and Electrical Machines, Drives and Power Systems by Wildi. I don't know if they're the best or if the newer editions are more helpful, but that's what I had.

Be familiar with your resources. Tabs are definitely your friends! Apply liberally. I tabbed any practice exam questions that I had trouble with and cited where to find the correct way to solve the problem and brought the practice exams with me. For the NEC, I used these tabs and added my own.

Speaking of the NEC, try using the applicable NEC Handbook as opposed to the NEC Codebook.

@AAGR2013 pretty much covered the rest

Keep your head up! You'll get there. This forum was a huge help to me and I'm sure you'll find the same to be true for you.


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jan 9, 2017)

The Complex Imaginary NEC Code drill book is very helpful.  So are the other Complex Imaginary books.  The introduction of the drill book has a very helpful strategy for answering NEC questions accurately. Spinup also has very good tips in their introduction the test in general.  The I highly recommend the GA Tech course particularly if you did not specialize in power. Some folks want to try to use their notebook w/o taking the class.  You must do both. The internet and YouTube are your friends. If you can't find the answer anywhere else Google the exact question.  The answer, or something close to it, is out there and some other resources may be able to explain it better than your current resources.  Once you've found it print it and add it to your reference notebook.  Finally, be very thorough in making your note sheet.  it took me two weeks.  Doing that will reinforce what you learned.


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jan 9, 2017)

By the way, I only worked through about  a third of CI's NEC drill book and felt like I answered every Code question accurately.  it's the strategy that they teach in the introduction that counts.  Not necessarily answering every practice question.  Good luck.


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## pete3589 (Jan 18, 2017)

I've started studying for the April test. I plan on going through the Graffeo book first, then doing the school of PE. 

I just took the FE in October and so far the Graffeo book seems like a poor man's version of the Lindberg FE book (which seems to be the gold standard for that test). I find that Graffeo's book really doesn't teach much. 

Are the examples that valuable?  It seems like this is everyone's go to book, but I'm finding it tough to learn from.


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## pete3589 (Jan 19, 2017)

Masterpe said:


> i thought the Graffeo book was crappy. organized poorly. Has very little information.
> 
> Even gave it a bad review on amazon.
> 
> ...


I feel the same way. Maybe I should change over to the Camara book since it seems more comprehensive?  Though I expect they will cover that extensively in the school of PE class.

i would be interested in hearing how people supplemented their prep class and how it worked out for them.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Jan 19, 2017)

There us not one book that is going to cut it for you. You will need a few books on a variety of topics, none of which is error free. I felt Graffeo laid out his book in an easy to follow format. Sure it could have covered more, but I defer to my opening sentence.


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jan 19, 2017)

To each his own but I did not consider the Camara book helpful at all.  Except for some transmission line info the book problems do not match test problems.


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## pete3589 (Jan 20, 2017)

Thank you for the responses. I'll stick with the Graffeo book for now.

Here's another question. Which version of NEC will the test use. I haven't seen a difinitive answer on 2014 or 2017.


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jan 20, 2017)

pete3589 said:


> Thank you for the responses. I'll stick with the Graffeo book for now.
> 
> Here's another question. Which version of NEC will the test use. I haven't seen a difinitive answer on 2014 or 2017.


Best to check with the NCEES on their website or you can phone them.  I'm sure  someone on this forum knows which Code book but I recommend going straight to then source.  By the way, the Graffeo book does an excellent job of filling any holes once you've gone through a class and done both Complex Imag. and Spinup.  As was mentioned earlier no one book is going to the trick.


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## Zach Stone P.E. (Jan 22, 2017)

> On 1/20/2017 at 10:38 AM, pete3589 said:
> Thank you for the responses. I'll stick with the Graffeo book for now.
> 
> Here's another question. Which version of NEC will the test use. I haven't seen a difinitive answer on 2014 or 2017.


*For April and Oct 2017 exams it is still the 2014 NEC.   *

NCEES does not use updated versions until the year after they are issued. 

I have personally spoken over the phone with NCEES about this, if you are not sure just give them a call they are friendly!  

Edit - Better yet use the live chat that is available on their website m-f:  http://ncees.org/contact/

Go ahead and ask them about the NEC version so you can feel confident about it and not have to worry.


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## Zach Stone P.E. (Jan 22, 2017)

And for anyone reading this thread, here are the references I recommended (and why) based off my personal experience as a PE, and from the feedback of the hundreds of students taking my online electrical power review course:

Electrical PE Review - Recommended References for the Electrical Power PE Exam

^Not just a list but goes into specific details for each reference.  

References are different, and you can tell just by looking at this thread and others that people are going to agree to different things.  The key is picking the references that suit your learning and studying style.  Read the in-depth reviews and pick the ones that better resonate with you is the best approach in my opinion.


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## Owism (Jan 23, 2017)

Electrical PE Review said:


> And for anyone reading this thread, here are the references I recommended (and why) based off my personal experience as a PE, and from the feedback of the hundreds of students taking my online electrical power review course:
> 
> Electrical PE Review - Recommended References for the Electrical Power PE Exam
> 
> ...


Thanks but why do you recommend TI... everyone on the face of the earth( and ofcourse this forum) recommend the Casio fx-115es plus, I love it as well.


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## Zach Stone P.E. (Jan 23, 2017)

Owism said:


> Thanks but why do you recommend TI... everyone on the face of the earth( and ofcourse this forum) recommend the Casio fx-115es plus, I love it as well.


No problem. 

The article sums up pretty well why I choose and recommend the TI over the Casio:

Electrical PE Review - TI36X Pro: The Best Calculator for the Electrical Power PE Exam 

It boils down to familiarity. 

Most of us grew up in the American school system and were exposed to the TI calculator way of doing things from an early age. 

The Casio is a close second but just feels a little foreign getting used to. 

At $20 bucks a pop both are far cheaper than any reference book or other exam resource so if there is any doubt or curiosity then get both and use the one you like the most while taking the other with you as back up.


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## TNSparky (Jan 23, 2017)

Owism said:


> Thanks but why do you recommend TI... everyone on the face of the earth( and ofcourse this forum) recommend the Casio fx-115es plus, I love it as well.


The fx-115es Plus can do polar/rectangular very quickly. Yeah, I was originally trained on a TI, but the switch to a Casio wasn't that bad. The key is using whatever calculator you plan to use while working practice problems. That way, you don't get to the actual exam and are trying to figure out how functions work or where to find things. The fx-115es Plus didn't take me that long to get used to and in my opinion, is the most powerful tool you can have on the exam. If you've used it before, I do not recommend changing equipment to the TI. That will only create more challenges for you, and the calculator shouldn't be the focus of figuring out what needs to go differently on the next exam. Good luck!


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## jgharris P.E. (Jan 23, 2017)

Owism,

I'd recommend a review course such as GT or School of PE.  I think both are good.  The Graffeo book is an excellent resource for the exam.  There is some good information inside and I would tab all of the tables, charts, etc.  Work EVERY PROBLEM in that book including the examples and the practice tests in the back.  The Graffeo book doesn't do any amount of training for the NEC/NESC but grab a book and the NCEES practice exam to get an idea along with the Complex Imaginary code book and practice exams.  I went through the entire graffeo book including the practice exams before the 6 week online course started and that was a big help.  The online course moves fast and there is homework issued.  I would have been lost if I hadn't already put in lots of time studying.

About calculators....

I brought two to the exam, an HP35s (primary) and a Casio fx-115ES (backup) along with a new set of spare batteries.  I used an HP scientific through my engineering courses  at  Uni (HP33S) so I had a lot of exposure to doing calculations with my HP.  The best thing about the HP35S is that it has a robust algebraic solver and the ability to store formulas.  This is great for doing relatively straightforward calculations that can be error prone (like calculating the +, - and zero sequence currents).  One of the best features of the Casio fx-115ES is the excellent complex number menu it has that allows for rapid conversions between rectangular and polar formats.  You can even enter polar and rectangular numbers as part of a calculation (and the display looks exactly like what you have on your paper) which is sweet.

The best advice I can give on exam day is bring your own lunch (don't leave the test location property) and don't get flustered.  Keep calm, cool and collected.  The minute you start thinking you've lost the battle close your eyes, look at the pretty woman across the room, think of how that beer will taste later tonight when you're out of the exam.  Find something to escape to for 10 seconds then open your eyes, re-read that problem slowly and attack it.  No amount of studying for this test will help more than the ability to not give up and to keep going when you first read that problem and panic because you have no clue how to solve it.


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## Troll (Jan 31, 2017)

Owism said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> First and foremost I'd like to thank everyone for the rollercoaster ride while waiting for the exam results.
> 
> ...


The best bang for your buck is the villa nova course and the Mike holt DVDs for the NEC. 

Still a little surprised (and thankful) after studying the incorrect material and having zero background in electrical

PM me if you want more info


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jan 31, 2017)

One final piece of advice which I don't think has been mentioned already.  If you live close enough to the test site visit it a day or two before.  Find out where you need to park and exactly where the room is.  Peek inside the room to see if the tables are set up and find out where the bathrooms are.  if you live over an hour away consider getting a hotel room and stay the night before.  Finally be at the site at least an hour early.  You don't want to rush in at the last minute.  Eat a decent breakfast that morning and, as stated earlier, bring your lunch.  If you have allergies like me bring Kleenex.  Small things like these suggestions can make a big difference the day of the test.


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## ItsStudyTime! (Feb 17, 2019)

I wrote up my resources and opinion on each here.

I also wrote up my whole method on other pages on that same website - my approach to studying and building your binder.


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