# Air guns



## Dleg (Dec 31, 2009)

I want to kill some rats and I'm tired of trapping them on sticky traps and then having to beat them to death, drown them, or throw them in the trash to die a long death of starvation(actually, could a rat potentially survive in the landfill, stuck to a sticky trap, if there was an ever-increasing supply of garbage to eat being piled on top of him?) - the so-called "humane" methods advocated by some acquaintenances.

I suggested getting an air gun like the type I had as a kid (Crossman pump-up type) and playing sniper outside my house during the evenings, and a federal agent friend (who has real weapons) pointed me to Cabela's for mail-order air rifles like those made by RWS, which apparently are practically "real" weapons and can be sent here without legal issues. He suggested RWS above the other brands.

I figured some of you mainland gun-nut, NRA types might have some advice on a good air gun for picking off rats from the range of 10-30 yards, under low light conditions (cause that's when they come out into the open).

Fire away!


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## MonteBiker (Dec 31, 2009)

As it is still the season... I would suggest "Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time"

But there is the consequence that you may shoot your eye out...


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## EM_PS (Dec 31, 2009)

:appl:


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## Dleg (Jan 1, 2010)

With the kind of rats we have around here, I think a Red Rider would just piss them off.


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## Slugger926 (Jan 1, 2010)

I grew up with Crossman (760?) and the Daisy 880 Powerline model. I have taken crows at 100 yards with the Daisy pumped up beyond the 10 pump limit. I always wanted a Benjamin growing up, but outside my price range.

I hear the Gammo's are the way to go these days. They have been used on Wild Boars. I am not sure of the actual hunting conditions though.

Another suggestion would be to get a .22 and rat shot.

The pellet guns used on rats/mice can be fun. That used to be entertainment for kids and local law at the grain elevator in the middle of the night.

Good luck and be safe. Those pump up pellet/BB guns can do some damage.

If you want to up your firepower, modern muzzleloaders are also not concidered guns and can be shipped easily.


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## Road Guy (Jan 1, 2010)

Have you tried the regular old school traps? They have always worked well for me &amp; at least they are dead when you check them in the morning. But for more sporting you will need one of the really high powered ones to kill the big boys, cabelas or bass pro shop should be able to hook you up.


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## Dleg (Jan 1, 2010)

I want to shoot them. I don't want to use traps.

Slugger - it's not just the shipping, it;s the local gun laws. You are forbidden from having anything larger than 22 cliber rifle or 410 shotgun, though they allow.223. I don't want a real gun, though, with the hassle of the licensing and also safety issues. I feel relatively safe with a pellet gun, although I know they can do damage and those new ones look just as powerful as a .22. I used to have the same Crossman and Daisy you had, and could also take stuff out at pretty long distances. That was pretty fun and why I'd like to do it again, now that I have genuine pests to get rid of.


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## Supe (Jan 1, 2010)

Stick with a .177 pellet. Easier to come across.

They make a lot of nice compressed air rifles nowadays. However, finding a spring action air rifle with some oomph behind it is often the much cheaper route. RWS/Diana make nice airguns. In fact, one of them got me to the Junior Olympics my first time out. Gamo dominates the plinker market in terms of bang for the buck, though there are also some decent Crosmans.

The Gamo SOCOM extreme is a SWEET plinker, spring loaded, considerable 60 pound cocking effort for around $400. Gamo also makes a varmint hunter and Whisper series in the $200 range. Check out Airgun Depot for some recommendations.

One thing to watch for if you buy a spring loaded air rifle - DON'T buy a regular scope! The reverse recoil of the spring guns will damage the scopes internally.


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## Slugger926 (Jan 2, 2010)

Dleg said:


> I want to shoot them. I don't want to use traps.
> Slugger - it's not just the shipping, it;s the local gun laws. You are forbidden from having anything larger than 22 cliber rifle or 410 shotgun, though they allow.223. I don't want a real gun, though, with the hassle of the licensing and also safety issues. I feel relatively safe with a pellet gun, although I know they can do damage and those new ones look just as powerful as a .22. I used to have the same Crossman and Daisy you had, and could also take stuff out at pretty long distances. That was pretty fun and why I'd like to do it again, now that I have genuine pests to get rid of.


But in most jurisdictions, a blackpowder gun is concidered a pipe. They don't have any restrictions, and you can carry a blackpowder pistol conceale without any concealed carry permits. With that said, and with my experience of everything going wrong while hunting including miss fires and missing one deer 13 times, I wouldn't trust them to save my life or stop a fight.

Stick with the .177 caliber for ease of finding pellets or steel BB's.

Good luck.


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## IlPadrino (Jan 2, 2010)

Dleg said:


> Slugger - it's not just the shipping, it;s the local gun laws. You are forbidden from having anything larger than 22 cliber rifle or 410 shotgun, though they allow.223. I don't want a real gun, though, with the hassle of the licensing and also safety issues. I feel relatively safe with a pellet gun, although I know they can do damage and those new ones look just as powerful as a .22. I used to have the same Crossman and Daisy you had, and could also take stuff out at pretty long distances. That was pretty fun and why I'd like to do it again, now that I have genuine pests to get rid of.


Dleg... I suggest you reconsider. A nice .22 is the way to go - you'll get a lifetime's use out of one like the Ruger 10/22 and you have more choice in ammunition because shot cartridges are just your ticket:







Are .22s really licensed where you're at?

I think from a safety perspective, a .22 with shot cartridges is as safe as an airgun... it does exactly what you tell it to do (extremely reliable) and the ammo is pretty short range. I tried to google some range/velocity data but came up dry... Federal's 22 Long Rifle No. 12 Lead Shot website didn't have the info.

Just remember the three fundamental rules of gun safety: 1) Treat every gun as if it's loaded; 2) Only point your gun at things you intend to kill; 3) Never put your finger on the trigger (or in the trigger guard!) until you're ready to shoot.


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## Slugger926 (Jan 2, 2010)

Don't forget to get a blind so you can reload between shots without scaring your quarry away.

http://www.cabelas.com/archery/treestands-...ry-blinds.shtml

I got one of the Ameristep blinds similiar to the brickhouse at Attwoods for $85, and had deer come within 5 yards of my 4 year old son and myself without smelling or hearing us. These are lined with a carbon cloth that helps keep odors down. They are perfect for sitting in with lawn chairs, and help when it is raining.

Also you may want to make sure you aren't breaking the watton waste laws.

http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/cookingrats.htm

(just kidding)


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## benbo (Jan 2, 2010)

Slugger926 said:


> Don't forget to get a blind so you can reload between shots without scaring your quarry away.
> http://www.cabelas.com/archery/treestands-...ry-blinds.shtml


Oh man, this is a hilarious visual - somebody in camoflauge, up in a tree blind trying to pick off a rat with a bow and arrow. What about a rat call?


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## Slugger926 (Jan 2, 2010)

benbo said:


> Slugger926 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget to get a blind so you can reload between shots without scaring your quarry away.
> ...


Those are ground blinds.  It would still make a good visual for a Larry the Cable Guy skit.

I have taken a timber rat with a bow and arrow back when I was in High School. A tree rat and a copper head are my only arrow kills, and the snake was between my feet sunning on some sandrock in December.


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## Dleg (Jan 3, 2010)

IlPadrino - I've got a 10/22 already, stored at my parent's house in Denver. I fondle it longingly whenever I visit... But I don't want the hassle of bringing it out here, although I may cave if I am able to stay.

Ha! A blind.... I was thinking, though, of trying to bait them or otherwise lure them into the open. The problem is that any food I put out will get eaten by dogs first. Rat hunting will pose an interesting challenge.

After looking around on the airgun depot and pyramyd air websites, I think I have decided that what I need is the RWS/Hammerli 850 CO2 repeater... it's accurate, fast to reload, and I can get the 88 gram CO2 cartridges here. But then again, there are so many cool airguns on that site... I think I'll also throw in a Baretta PX4 blowback-action CO2 pistol... way cool, and cheap. I don't think I'll hit any rats with it, but probably a lot of cans...


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## Road Guy (Jan 4, 2010)

please let us know of your results, include pictures, stories, etc


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## Freon (Jan 4, 2010)

I have a Crossman 2200, .22 cal pellet gun. My son takes it out to a frends farm to plink at rats.

But I live in Texas, so bothersome rodents and reptiles are normally dispatched by 12-gauge or .357. In your case, have you looks at getting a .410? That would give you even more flexability than a 22 rimfire.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 4, 2010)

Dleg,

As a former slayer of all things that landed or crawled through my parents back yard, I would go with the Benjamin.

Cabela's Link

It's slower to repump, but accurate, and durable. You can also put a cheapy $50 - $100 scope on it and improve your accuracy quite a bit. There's no telling how many squirrels have died at the hands of my Benjamin Air Rifle, and these were in the tops of pine trees, I would think a few rats scurrying along the ground would be a piece of cake.

And since no one else has said it, be careful, "you'll shoot your eye out."


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## z06dustin (Jan 4, 2010)

I've got a few air rifles, but this is just about as quiet, and I think would do a better job on your rats:


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## Dleg (Jan 4, 2010)

^Is that an air rifle????

Roadguy: I will report back once I have taken action.

Freon: I'm avoiding firearms, just because the registration process here is so onerous. Especially for an "outsider". I truly believe I would have a 10-25 percent chance of having my firearm confiscated by an official who simply wants to have it for himself.

Chucktown: I have considered the Benjamins and Sheridans. They are nice guns, and I may end up getting one - I always wanted one when I was a kid, to replace my plasticky Daisy 880 (which was actually a very accurate and fun gun). I can even buy one at our local department store (the .20 cal version - Sheridan??) But I am guessing it will be severely overpriced.

Right now I am hesitating because I don't know if we will be moving away within the next few months. If we move to a city somewhere, it might not be worth it to have a gun I can't shoot. Right now I live in essentially a farm setting, so I could get away with virtually any airgun (but not a firearm). I need to find a way to justify the purchase, unless I can find something so cheap it doesn't require justification.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 4, 2010)

Dude, they're only $200 for the cadillac version. You could probably sell it on ebay for close to that after you're done with it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 5, 2010)

Supe said:


> Stick with a .177 pellet. Easier to come across.
> They make a lot of nice compressed air rifles nowadays. However, finding a spring action air rifle with some oomph behind it is often the much cheaper route.


I concur with this. I can tell you from experience that todays pump guns will not do anything but pi$$ a rat off. My spring gun (sniper gun, according to my BIL) will shoot the wadcutter .177s through both sides of a water filled can. I imagine the varmint rounds would be even more destructive.

Plus, all the neighbors here is a muted 'thut' when it fires.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 5, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Supe said:
> 
> 
> > Stick with a .177 pellet. Easier to come across.
> ...


A Benjamin air rifle with 10 pumps and a flat tipped pellet with F a rat up in a big way.


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## jeb6294 (Jan 5, 2010)

When I was a kid we went to Colorado for vacation one year. Every morning the we'd saddle up some horses and take the pellet guns out to hunt prairie dogs. I don't remember what kind they were, but they were pump and they shot pointy .177 cal pellets. They would literally blow a prairie dog in half. We'd collect all the bodies and then the dads would use them for bait when they went coyote hunting at night.


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## z06dustin (Jan 5, 2010)

Dleg said:


> ^Is that an air rifle????


No, 9mm carbine.


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## Dleg (Jan 5, 2010)

^Totally illegal here, then.

Hey C-Town, after browsing some forums I found this company in CA (Mac 1) that's been servicing Crosman/Benjamin guns for decades and sells modified "Steroid" Benjamins that can be pumped 14 times (gets over 900 fps) and have several other modifications designed to improve performance, such as lengthened pump handles, trigger improvements, Williams peep sights, etc. Looks kind of cool.

I found out my brother in law (next door) has a Benjamin (.22 cal) already, so we are going to do some rat hunting tonight so I can try it out. He's already got quite a claim on the rat population on our "farm", and has staked out the pig pens as his prime hunting grounds (FIL currently has 2 large hogs and 4 or 5 young ones).

I visited two local shops that carry airguns and was surprised at the decent selection. Prices are a little high, but not terrible considering how much it would cost me to mail something anyway. The only drawback is that the palce with the best selection apparently doesn't move them very quickly - a couple of the guns had rust on the barrels. Hmm....


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 5, 2010)

Dleg said:


> ^Totally illegal here, then.
> Hey C-Town, after browsing some forums I found this company in CA (Mac 1) that's been servicing Crosman/Benjamin guns for decades and sells modified "Steroid" Benjamins that can be pumped 14 times (gets over 900 fps) and have several other modifications designed to improve performance, such as lengthened pump handles, trigger improvements, Williams peep sights, etc. Looks kind of cool.
> 
> I found out my brother in law (next door) has a Benjamin (.22 cal) already, so we are going to do some rat hunting tonight so I can try it out. He's already got quite a claim on the rat population on our "farm", and has staked out the pig pens as his prime hunting grounds (FIL currently has 2 large hogs and 4 or 5 young ones).
> ...



Dleg, you definitely don't need to modify a Benjamin for rats. I can't tell you how many squirrels I killed out of 30 ft tall pine trees with mine but it's a lot. Plus, with a rat, as long as you wound them pretty good they're not going to live for long. You might look at a scope but it'll be hard to see them at night.

Good luck with your rat hunting extravaganza. I wish you well. Save the neck for me.


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## Dleg (Jan 5, 2010)

I know I don't need a modification. But I'm an engineer and I can't resist that kind of thing. I am having to physically restrain myself from spending more on something exciting like the Benjamin Marauder - pre-charged pneumatic, bolt-action repeater, with a barrel shroud that essentially silences it. Mmmmmmm......

My BIL told me that his Benjamin knocks the rats dead immediately. He was kind of excited, actually, that I was considering a cheapo Crosman CO2-powered .177 rifle they are selling locally, because, in his words, then the rat might be able to run off and die somewhere else, instead of right there, so we wouldn't have to handle the carcass.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 5, 2010)

That site is awesome. I love this paragraph:



> *LUBRICATION:* EVERY TIME YOU TAKE IT OUT TO USE IT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LEVER PIVOTS ARE MOIST WITH SECRET SAUCE.


:blink:

That site is riddled with sexual inuendo.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Dleg, those spring guns are 1200 fps stock. Remember energy=.5 mv^2.


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## Dleg (Jan 6, 2010)

^I know. I'd rather have something in the 600-800 fps range. Just a tad safer (and quieter) in my neighborhood, yet still lethal enough for the rats.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 7, 2010)

I was using BBs instead of pellets, so maybe that was the reason, but my 600fps rifle didn't do anything to the rats but make 'em mad. But these rats were cat sized.

Pump gun wasn't much quieter than the spring gun, either.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 7, 2010)

So how'd it go Dleg?


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## Dleg (Jan 7, 2010)

Nothing to report yet.


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## Dexman1349 (Jan 7, 2010)

This brings back memories of using prarie dogs to help sight in my 30-06 rifle. Setup on the roof of a friends house, we'd spend an entire afternoon picking those bastards off at ~100 yards. Virtually no clean-up because they'd splatter when hit. For some reason beyond my understanding, the splatter of one prarie dog would become the bait for the second. Just need a rake to push some dirt over the mess when done.

My first thought was a .22 rifle, but as I read above it appears that one of those would be not worth the hassle.

Can't really contribute to the air-rifle discussion as my family only trusted us (my brother and I) with real guns after we turned 14.


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