# Evaluating MS programs



## HornTootinEE (Jul 28, 2010)

Any suggestions on how to evaluate these master's degree programs (Besides accredidation) that are offered online? I have found a few that offer both the Master of Engineering and Master of Science degrees in an "Online' or "distance" format.

Does anybody have any expierience with any of these programs through like Iowa State, Kansas State, Arizona State (MBA and ME), that sort of thing?

how do you evaluate which school to work with?


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## soobs (Jul 28, 2010)

djohnson.ee said:


> Any suggestions on how to evaluate these master's degree programs (Besides accredidation) that are offered online? I have found a few that offer both the Master of Engineering and Master of Science degrees in an "Online' or "distance" format.
> Does anybody have any expierience with any of these programs through like Iowa State, Kansas State, Arizona State (MBA and ME), that sort of thing?
> 
> how do you evaluate which school to work with?


Honestly, im not aware of any of those you listed associated with engineering programs.

From an employer's perspective, your local state university would be best I would think if you're not going to some nationally recognized school.

The underlying reasoning would be why would this person from NJ have gone to grad school in Iowa?

I could be totally off just my stupid opinion.


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## momech (Jul 28, 2010)

djohnson.ee said:


> Any suggestions on how to evaluate these master's degree programs (Besides accredidation) that are offered online? I have found a few that offer both the Master of Engineering and Master of Science degrees in an "Online' or "distance" format.
> Does anybody have any expierience with any of these programs through like Iowa State, Kansas State, Arizona State (MBA and ME), that sort of thing?
> 
> how do you evaluate which school to work with?


Although I didn't attend any of these schools, as someone from the midwest, I can tell you that Iowa State and Kansas State are reasonably highly regarded engineering schools in the area, as are Kansas, Missouri and Missouri S&amp;T. I believe ASU is also highly regarded in the Southwest. I have a bachelor's from Missouri S&amp;T and master's from Kansas.


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## HornTootinEE (Jul 28, 2010)

momech said:


> djohnson.ee said:
> 
> 
> > Any suggestions on how to evaluate these master's degree programs (Besides accredidation) that are offered online? I have found a few that offer both the Master of Engineering and Master of Science degrees in an "Online' or "distance" format.
> ...



Iowa State and Kansas State are my top two choices. The ND schools don't offer the ability to take their programs on a distance learning basis, otherwise I'd jump all over that. I'd prefer a full fledged thesis program (MS) I think, which in ND the only option is to do that in residence. I haven't looked into Kansas State again lately... but I know Iowa State offers an MS program through distance learning...

My goal is to get a master's but stay away from these "McMasters" programs if possible. We have an accelerated MBA program in state that gets alot of press around my company but really seems to be kindof a sham... oh well.

Thanks for the input so far


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## Dleg (Jul 28, 2010)

I honestly think that just having an M.S. or M.E. is 90% of the value - sort of checking off a box on a promotion or application form. Going to a "top school" might give you an edge when looking for a new job, but not much IMHO... Many of these on-line programs now offer degrees and diplomas that they advertise as being identical to the diplomas (and transcripts) given to on-campus MS students ... with no mention of "on line" or "distance" anywhere on the documents. So.... there's no way an employer would even be able to know you got it on-line, as opposed to in-person. Further, I've spoken with several people who have completed on-line Master's programs in several fields, and all have reported that they are just as much, if not more involving as traditional campus coursework.

I say go for it - there are many of us who simply do not have the option to attend classes in person, as working professionals living in areas away from accredited universities. Just make sure it's ABET accredited and that the diplomas and transcripts are identical to the on-campus documents.


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## HerrKaLeun (Jul 28, 2010)

- Make sure the school has a bachelor's program that is ABET accredited (Master's programs mostly are not accredited, but that gives you an indication of the school itself)

- Make sure they also offer PhD and do research. Even if you don't do PhD, this is an indication that they actually have good professors.

- Ideally go to a state school or a very good private one. If it is anything else, it is not worth the money.

- if you really must do it online (and i wonder why you would waste money for knowledge you get from books if you can just buy the books...), use one that also has a real off-line program.

- make sure they have entrance requirements (besides being able to pay tuition). A normal school would require: a formal application with an essay why you think they should take you, references, GRE test (1000+ scores, my grad school required 1100 scores out of 1600) and your undergraduate degree from a real school. If they don't require that - you know it is a degree mill.

You should google for Phoenix online, ITT, Kaplan etc. those are moneymaking degree mills that don't provide any type of education. While it is true that some employers might not care, the problem is you don't get any real graduate level knowledge and 99% of employers know what is going on. the sad thing is the federal government gives them some reputation by allowing student loans for studies at those fake universities. Read some good engineering books and you get more knowledge than form attending those online schools.

Most good schools won't offer much reasonable evening or weekend classes. So as a working person I see why you would want an online program. I went to a real school while working full time and my employer was nice enough to let me take off in the morning when there was class.(I had to make up for that). I paid $ 24,000 in tuition (in state) and never regretted the time and money I spent. All the things I learned from nationally recognized professors I could not get anywhere online.

One option would be to work for the school as research assistant. that way you get a small salary and don't pay tuition. Obviously that only works in real school, not in paper mills. Even if you don't want to go that route. Ask if they offer that at all. That shows you if they actually do any research someone pays for.

If you really must do an online MS, ask the graduate admission department of the best state school in your state if they would allow you to do a PhD program based on that MS degree.

Just the fact that an online program doesn't have means to check if you or just your smart friend or someone you pay writes your test, tells you that no one will accept an online degree as equal to a real school.

You can save all the hassle, send me a check and I issue you a diploma that says "MS" with your name.


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## cableguy (Jul 28, 2010)

University of Colorado offers a distance learning Masters' degree program. I used to work for an Investor Owned Utility, and they paid 100% tuition on U of Co master's classes. I took the Transmission and Distribution Design course. Great class. They videotaped the professor in class, and mailed the tapes to me, and I faxed in my homework (this was back in '95, kind of pre-Internet days). A number of engineers I worked with had their U of Colorado Masters diplomas hanging on the wall. The semester I took the class, there were about 20 of us from my company taking it (our 'final design' project was with 4 other engineers within the company).

I recently looked in to it again there at U of C, but I don't see a good power systems curriculum any more (for example, no T&amp;D design class). Plus my current company doesn't have a very good education program (but it's gotten better recently... 2 years ago, it was $500/yr for higher education lol).

At $700 a semester hour plus materials, it's not cheap. But that's cheaper than my local school (Baylor). U of CO is a very respectable program, might look 'em up.

http://cuengineeringonline.colorado.edu/de...distance-degree


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## Dleg (Jul 28, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> - Make sure the school has a bachelor's program that is ABET accredited (Master's programs mostly are not accredited, but that gives you an indication of the school itself)- Make sure they also offer PhD and do research. Even if you don't do PhD, this is an indication that they actually have good professors.
> 
> - Ideally go to a state school or a very good private one. If it is anything else, it is not worth the money.
> 
> ...


Some good points and a few completely off-the wall points.

" - make sure they have entrance requirements (besides being able to pay tuition). A normal school would require: a formal application with an essay why you think they should take you, references, GRE test (1000+ scores, my grad school required 1100 scores out of 1600) and your undergraduate degree from a real school. If they don't require that - you know it is a degree mill. "

Why? I've run across several reputable state and private universities that do not require GRE scores. Colorado State University is one of them - they have a 100% on-line Masters of Engineering program in civil engineering, water resources, and do not require a GRE in recognition of the fact that their program is aimed at working professionals, not aspiring researchers.

"Just the fact that an online program doesn't have means to check if you or just your smart friend or someone you pay writes your test, tells you that no one will accept an online degree as equal to a real school. "

What??? Stanford offers on-line Masters programs now, fully ABET accredited, and they also advertise that their diplomas are identical to those received on-campus. Johns Hopkins does as well, in numerous fields. Personally, I would rate a person with an on-line Masters from Hopkins or Stanford higher than someone who picked up an MS at a state school. On-line or not.

However, I agree with the University of Phoenix online and Kaplan degrees - these do not impress me.

Get an on-line degree from a reputable school, and you're good to go, IMO. Times have changed.


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## HerrKaLeun (Jul 29, 2010)

Dleg said:


> Some good points and a few completely off-the wall points.
> " - make sure they have entrance requirements (besides being able to pay tuition). A normal school would require: a formal application with an essay why you think they should take you, references, GRE test (1000+ scores, my grad school required 1100 scores out of 1600) and your undergraduate degree from a real school. If they don't require that - you know it is a degree mill. "
> 
> Why? I've run across several reputable state and private universities that do not require GRE scores. Colorado State University is one of them - they have a 100% on-line Masters of Engineering program in civil engineering, water resources, and do not require a GRE in recognition of the fact that their program is aimed at working professionals, not aspiring researchers.
> ...


Not having to physically sit in for a test concerns me since that encourages cheating. I didn't know good schools offer a full online program. I once did an on-line (or snail mail back then) in Germany (Fernstudium) for an OSHA like certification. I could send in my homework. but they had some days of class I had to travel there for and the exams also were literally in the class room, which made sense to me.

If the online degree is worth anything... it depends. If you already have a job (and that I think would be the only reason to do it online), your employer will judge your actual work more than the degree. then you only might to have to show the degree to HR to get a promotion. but if you start out fresh and apply for your first job after school with an online degree.... this may be harder depending on how much your future boss knows about schools. Of course, if it says Stanford, this is different than Kaplan ;-)

I'm not sure how they handle research and writing a thesis... (I did a non-thesis program too and took more credits since I had a job and didn't want to do the research assistant program which I was offered)

If they don't require GRE results, then they better require something else. Everyone wants to go to a good school and GRE is one way of filtering out the good students.


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## Bman (Jul 29, 2010)

I've got an MS Degree in Project Management (specialized business degree) from Boston University. Nether my degree nor my transcripts show anyting about it being a distance learning program, the only way you would know is by matching up my work history to my education and realizing that I worked out of a Florida office while attending a university in Boston... I didn't have to take the GRE exam, but I did have to apply and show my transcripts from my undergrad with over a 3.0 gpa, write essays, get references, letters of recommendation, etc. In my case, I travel a lot for work, so there's no way I could actually attend a university in person. In my opinion, I thought there was more work involved with the distance learning degree than physically attending a class.

Class participation was a good percentage of our grade, which amounted to discussions on a message board, all of which had to be supported by research. You could not simply state an opinion, you had to have a certain number of references to support your statements to get a good grade. For some classes, this basically amounted to writing upwards of 15 essays a week, each with 3-5 references, on top of our other course work. This was a lot more work than simply attending class where you could just raise your hand and say whatever you wanted... Our exams were proctored and had to be scheduled in advance. Even so, I don't think that not having an exam proctored encourages cheating. It is just as easy to cheat in a classroom as it is at home. All of the exams were timed, so even if they were open book, you didn't have enough time to just look things up, you had to study and know your stuff. We also did a lot of group research projects and presentations, so you get to really know some of your peers.

I think distance education is a great way for working professionals to further their education. It's no walk in the park, but it'll be worth it once it's over.


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## momech (Jul 29, 2010)

Bman said:


> I've got an MS Degree in Project Management (specialized business degree) from Boston University. Nether my degree nor my transcripts show anyting about it being a distance learning program, the only way you would know is by matching up my work history to my education and realizing that I worked out of a Florida office while attending a university in Boston... I didn't have to take the GRE exam, but I did have to apply and show my transcripts from my undergrad with over a 3.0 gpa, write essays, get references, letters of recommendation, etc. In my case, I travel a lot for work, so there's no way I could actually attend a university in person. In my opinion, I thought there was more work involved with the distance learning degree than physically attending a class.
> Class participation was a good percentage of our grade, which amounted to discussions on a message board, all of which had to be supported by research. You could not simply state an opinion, you had to have a certain number of references to support your statements to get a good grade. For some classes, this basically amounted to writing upwards of 15 essays a week, each with 3-5 references, on top of our other course work. This was a lot more work than simply attending class where you could just raise your hand and say whatever you wanted... Our exams were proctored and had to be scheduled in advance. Even so, I don't think that not having an exam proctored encourages cheating. It is just as easy to cheat in a classroom as it is at home. All of the exams were timed, so even if they were open book, you didn't have enough time to just look things up, you had to study and know your stuff. We also did a lot of group research projects and presentations, so you get to really know some of your peers.
> 
> I think distance education is a great way for working professionals to further their education. It's no walk in the park, but it'll be worth it once it's over.


I agree. My MS degree in Engineering Management didn't require any entrance exams, but they required a good BS gpa from a good school along with the references. I took a couple classes in the Distance Education format the semester that we had our first child. The classwork was no different than if I had been in class. The lectures were streamed online and homework was turned in via e-mail, instead of in person.


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## HornTootinEE (Jul 29, 2010)

Thank you to all the good info so far. I know the programs I am looking at aren't really "online" because mostly they have you taking class the same time it's offered on campus, you just watch the streaming video from the lectures. So you still have to watch three lectures a week, turn in homework, take tests (usually proctored and timed), that sort of thing. I'd classify them as "distance" because really you're still taking the class from the professor, just not on campus. And I know Iowa State requires the whole faculty review board (if you do research) that sort of thing. I don't know much about U of Phoenix or Kaplan but i agree it seems there are alot of degree mills out there and if my degree says U of Colorado or Iowa State or Standford or North Dakota State or whatever it's going to be alot more accepted than Kaplan or University of Phoenix.

The reason I'm looking at an MS in EE is because I work for an Investor owned utility, and many of the engineers my age are getting their mill-type MBA, as well as their PE. So what sets me apart as a better engineer? The MSEE.... I'm pretty sure I'd be the first MSEE at our company, ever. And we're damn near 100 years old. Plus I think it's an advanced degree, shows you have more stomach than the Bachelor's only competitors of the same age. (Not that a Bachelors is anything to sniff at, don't get me wrong)


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## HerrKaLeun (Jul 29, 2010)

If it is a real school (i.e. state school) and work disables you from classrooms, online might be your only option. I was lucky enough to have graduate school in town and my employer is flexible (had to miss class here and there, one time I had to write an exam prior its original date due to work conflicts) - so it was manageable for me. Over the summer I took two classes that are real in-class classes during fall and spring semester (Project Management, constructtability analysis) and they were online in summer only. I (and my employer) enjoyed not having to go to class. They were done by a well known professor and the classes were taped and down loadable. Since this is kind of not real engineering, it was manageable to understand and to learn a lot. ACtually those were easy classes online or offline. However, I imagined one of my real engineering classes (thermodynamics, heat transfer etc.) to be like that - I never could think I would want to miss the actual class for those topics.

I know someone who is an ME and he was doing (while working) his MS in ME at the UW Platteville (or some other UW school) where they also had a real class program. Along with his work experience I'm sure he learned as much as some kid who never worked in a company on ME stuff. He got promoted too.

But if you have a choice, class room it is.

Strange that you guys didn't need the GRE. I had to do it and researched an it seemed all graduate schools required that (with varying score requirements). Studying for that annoyed me since it didn't give me any useful knowledge (while studying for PE might be harder, but at least I learn some useful things) and the English part can be really hard for non-native speaker to find an antonym for an completely unknown word out of 5 completely unknown words. I had 780/800 in the "math" part and 420/800 on the "English" part.

Oh well, good luck with school, it will be hard either way when you work full time. Hope you enjoy it and learn a lot. In any case you'll learn more than the MBA folks


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## navyasw02 (Aug 5, 2010)

There's a lot of good online schools now. First, dont just google online, a lot of good schools will call it distance learning and you might miss a few. It sounds classier and more legit. I know Johns Hopkins has a distance learning grad program, a few others do too.

I did a Masters in Engineering Management via distance learning and personally I liked it way better than classroom learning. It came on CDs, I could put it on my ipod and watch lectures on my 45 minute subway ride, then do homework at home. I did it all completely at my own pace and actually learned a lot. Now I'm in a residence MSME program and it's good, but I feel like my class time is spent zoning out while a prof drones on about something, regurgitate it back for the exam, brain dump, and repeat. I dont know about you, but I'd much rather get bored to death in my pj's drinking coffee on my couch instead of in a hard chair in a cold classroom.


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