# Problem Difficulty - Depth vs Breadth



## Clydeman (Jan 28, 2011)

In my PE review course, the professor said that for any of the given subjects the depth problems are of the same difficulty as breadth (there are simply more of them).

Is this true from the experience of those who have taken the test?


----------



## navyasw02 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nathan Satter said:


> In my PE review course, the professor said that for any of the given subjects the depth problems are of the same difficulty as breadth (there are simply more of them).
> Is this true from the experience of those who have taken the test?


Negative. Some of the depth problems are as easy as the breadth, but most are harder. Work through the NCEES practice exams and you will know the layout of the test.


----------



## Relvinim (Jan 28, 2011)

No way. Read some of the older posts from the April 10 exam and you will see that most people agreed the afternoon session was way harder than the morning session.


----------



## RobertR (Jan 28, 2011)

The commonly accepted strategy has been to get all or nearly all the problems on the morning portion right, and get "over the top" in the afternoon. That should tell you which is hardest.


----------



## Clydeman (Jan 28, 2011)

This being the case, in the 11 weeks left what percentage of my time should be on breadth subjects versus Thermo/Fluids (what I am taking)? Should I try to shoot for 2/3 my time on TF problmes and then the remaining 1/3 on MD and HVAC?


----------



## Shaggy (Jan 28, 2011)

66/33 isn't so bad... I would think more like 50/50. Some where in there though.


----------



## navyasw02 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nathan Satter said:


> This being the case, in the 11 weeks left what percentage of my time should be on breadth subjects versus Thermo/Fluids (what I am taking)? Should I try to shoot for 2/3 my time on TF problmes and then the remaining 1/3 on MD and HVAC?


Depends, how comfortable are you with TF stuff versus MD? I really think you're overanalyzing it. The morning session really couldn't be any easier. I posted before that if you use more than 1 equation to solve stuff on the morning session, you're doing something wrong.

If I was taking it again, this is what I'd do:

1. Read the MERM chapters that are applicable. Dont get bogged down on the stuff in the second half of the non depth sections. Read through it and try to understand it all, but if not dont worry about it. You'll figure it out when you do problems.

2. Take the 2001 Exam and all depth modules except HVAC NOW so you know what to expect.

3. Work Problems until you cant anymore with an emphasis on:

A. Morning session - basic HVAC problems (do the 6 min solutions breadth), TF - basic cycles, thermal expansion coefficient, basic heat transfer (conduction, convection, radiation) basic head loss problems, basic pump power problems, basic heat exchangers. Again see the term basic. When I say basic, I mean basic and I can't stress this enough. Just about everything in thermo and heat transfer you can solve using equations that relate Qin = Qout. Know how to convert quickly between cfm and gpm or gph. Know what throttling, adiabatic, compression, expansion, and various other terms mean in terms of what happens to h, s, T, P, and V, not just what the definitions are.

B. Afternoon session - Statics (truss, catenary cables, etc), Dynamics (find coefficient of friction, stopping/skidding distance, angular velocity problems, conservation of momentum, Vibrations (natural frequency, displacement), Solid Mechanics (column buckling, beam bending, moment of I), Materials (stress strain and associated curves, young's modulus and elasticity problems, elongation, material properties), and Machine Design (gears, springs, bearings, fasteners, pressure vessels, and fatigue)

4. Do the 2008 exam and all depth modules except HVAC

5. Spend a day doing engineering econ problems. Do about 10 of them and you'll know how to do figure them out. These are free points.

6. Spend a day reviewing and thinking through basic engineering concepts. Ie. How does moment of inertia change if you double the height of a beam, which beam stretches more given E1 = 2*E2, things like that.

If you know that stuff I put in there cold, you will most likely pass. It sounds like a lot, but it's really not. The NCEES exams are your best friends. The concepts in them will show up over and over, but they'll change the numbers.


----------



## Clydeman (Jan 28, 2011)

You are right I do need to do one of the NCEES exams. Although I have almost made it to Chapter 59 in MERMs.

I think what is stressing me out is the difficulty level of some of the Lindeburg Practice Problems. I am almost leaning toward thinking this text does more harm than good. It is so inconsistent. Often times problems listed as "one hour" problems are easy and then you run accross normal problems which can take 30 minutes to an hour.

I will probably be more confident when I start in on the SMS books and sample exams.


----------



## navyasw02 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nathan Satter said:


> You are right I do need to do one of the NCEES exams. Although I have almost made it to Chapter 59 in MERMs.
> I think what is stressing me out is the difficulty level of some of the Lindeburg Practice Problems. I am almost leaning toward thinking this text does more harm than good. It is so inconsistent. Often times problems listed as "one hour" problems are easy and then you run accross normal problems which can take 30 minutes to an hour.
> 
> I will probably be more confident when I start in on the SMS books and sample exams.


The Lindeburg problems found in the MERM, Lindeburg Practice Exam, and the Practice Problems for the MERM (long title book), are generally depth level or harder questions. Also the Six Minute Solutions Machine Design I felt the whole book was depth level. Dont stress about the time limit on any problems that aren't in the sample exams. Except for maybe 10 problems on the afternoon, I did every question in 6 minutes or less and "banked" the time or those 10 that took me what felt like an eternity.


----------



## HerrKaLeun (Jan 29, 2011)

navyasw02 said:


> Nathan Satter said:
> 
> 
> > You are right I do need to do one of the NCEES exams. Although I have almost made it to Chapter 59 in MERMs.
> ...


True, all the Lindburg stuff is harder. In each chapter of the "500" questions you'll see a progression in difficulty. Many of the questions are above the depth section level. However, for your discipline I'd recommend doing all (even the 1-hur maximum ones, those took me 20 minutes).

Regarding am/pm: In am I was done after 2 hours, pm took me the full 4 hours. Since I passed, I don't know in which part I did better. I don't really think the pm was more difficult. they were just more complex. For almost every question (in am and pm) I had the feeling I knew how to do them. I did HVAC and the am MD and T/F weren't so difficult - you should have some basic understanding.

My opinion: be really proficient in your discipline and know general basic of the others. Practice, practice, practice.... if Lindeburg questions are too hard (especially not in your discipline), jsut skip them and read the solution. Remember, you don't need to memorize, it is open book.


----------

