# Digging Deeper



## SHatfield (May 18, 2011)

Found out that I failed the FE exam for the third time on Monday. Spent a night licking my wounds and got over it. First time I put forth zero effect and failed. Second time put forth little effort and failed. Third time I studied for three solid months for the exam (Civil PM). Honestly tried really hard and thought the exam went well. I knew there were some questions I didn't know, but overall I felt so much better than I did on the first two tries.

My diagnostic was darn near heartbreaking. I only got 8 out of 19 on math, 3 out of 6 on Statics and Dynamics both, 0 out of 7 for Environmental. I guessed completely on Thermo and Electricity and did bad. I see where the room to imporove is, but with my study materials I feel angry.

I have been studying the Yellow big book, The Yellow Civil PM, and the NCEES Ref. Manual, and the Civil NCEES Sample Exam. My frustration is that I feel like none of the materials could prepare someone enough to pass. Even going to the morning session, the chemistry is so different from any review material I've seen.

I want this bad, I'm committed to studying non-stop until October. Do I need to dive back into my old material or move on to new stuff? I feel like I could know all the materials front and back, but the exam could still be a non-stop surprise of new material information.

Any advice?

*Edit: I have taken a review class and felt it a waste of three hours a week. I was basically sitting in front of an instructor who RAN through material and expected us to comprehend. I don't feel that route would be beneficial.


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## jv21 (May 18, 2011)

I know you took a review class but maybe it wasn't a good one or one that was right for you. Testmasters has a good program. In the end, it comes down to practicing hundreds / thousands of problems, timing yourself, and becoming intimately familiar with the equation book (where equations are found &amp; difference between similar equations that are in 2 different sections)


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## STEEL MAN (May 18, 2011)

SHatfield said:


> Found out that I failed the FE exam for the third time on Monday. Spent a night licking my wounds and got over it. First time I put forth zero effect and failed. Second time put forth little effort and failed. Third time I studied for three solid months for the exam (Civil PM). Honestly tried really hard and thought the exam went well. I knew there were some questions I didn't know, but overall I felt so much better than I did on the first two tries.
> My diagnostic was darn near heartbreaking. I only got 8 out of 19 on math, 3 out of 6 on Statics and Dynamics both, 0 out of 7 for Environmental. I guessed completely on Thermo and Electricity and did bad. I see where the room to imporove is, but with my study materials I feel angry.
> 
> I have been studying the Yellow big book, The Yellow Civil PM, and the NCEES Ref. Manual, and the Civil NCEES Sample Exam. My frustration is that I feel like none of the materials could prepare someone enough to pass. Even going to the morning session, the chemistry is so different from any review material I've seen.
> ...



SHatfield,

Im very sorry to hear this from you, anyways there is always hope. I wanted to share what I have expereinced since I have passed FE a year ago.

Based on your diagnostics it seems youre weak in Math, Mechanics and the other core subjects in AM.

I suggest you should study hard and focus on doing problems and very important understand the basics of each formula on the NCEES Reference Handbook and how to apply them, the yellow FERM wont do any good if you dont have a good understanding on the basic, it is outlined for reviewers that have a good background with basics of those subjects. Use textbooks you have from your college course to study the basics instead of FERM.

In the afternoon Civil PM, the same thing use related books you used during college in those courses, FE Civil PM discipline by PPI wont do any good this is outdated, but most importantly, understand the NCEES FE Handbook formulas in Civil PM and apply them properly, you might also use CERM by PPI to review your Civil PM thoroughly.

Good Luck.


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## stlaggies (May 18, 2011)

When I took the test all I used was the reference manual and these videos made by Texas A&amp;M profs:

http://engineeringregistration.tamu.edu/tapedreviews/


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## SHatfield (May 18, 2011)

stlaggies said:


> When I took the test all I used was the reference manual and these videos made by Texas A&amp;M profs:
> http://engineeringregistration.tamu.edu/tapedreviews/


Let me guess. You passed on your first try.


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## lady_j (May 19, 2011)

Shatfield, first off, don't worry you WILL pass this test. I can only provide you with advice that worked for me, so take this with a grain of salt. I studied long and hard for that FE test, and I am a person that can't just "wing it" when it comes to tests. Also, I am an anxious test-taker.

First, I think its important to identify your weaknesses. My weakness is speed. I am not at all speedy and the FE test is a speed drill (IMO, the PE test is also about being speedy, but nowhere NEAR the FE test). You MUST be able to be quick.

When you study, have you tried to time yourself? I made sure that I was very quick and I always looked at a watch when I studied to see how fast I was moving thru the problems. This helped me immensley.

I learned how to use the FE reference manual from back to front. I ordered one from ncees, just like the one they give you. It was worth the 16 bucks because it was bound. I tabbed it up, highlighted it, whatever I needed to do. I wrote notes in the margins and I read it in my spare time. This helped me be more confident during the actual test because I knew that book like the back of my hand.

For references, I used Lindberg FE Reference manual (it was an older edition, I think it was yellow), and another book by Lindberg full of problems. I ordered the NCEES test (Civil). I also used some of the NCEES PE tests (morning section only) to help me study for the afternoon civil portion of the FE. This helped and gave me confidence.

So you need to practice your math and circuits. My guess is you probably are good at solving these problems, you just aren't fast enough and so you lose confidence during the test. When you begin your studying, start with the calculus and algebra. Then do circuits.

Before the test, do whatever you can to get your confidence up. Don't think about failing, it is not an option.

Remember, this is a test of speed and of confidence. You have an Engineering education and you have taken exams in College. You know this material.

I hope this helps!


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## stlaggies (May 19, 2011)

SHatfield said:


> stlaggies said:
> 
> 
> > When I took the test all I used was the reference manual and these videos made by Texas A&amp;M profs:
> ...



Yes, most students at A&amp;M use those videos. A&amp;M has like a 95% pass rate.

They come with PDF notes that you can use to follow along. Some of them are a few hours long. So maybe only watch the ones that correspond with were you scored poorly.


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## guitarjamman (May 20, 2011)

Hey bud....I just passed and feel I am a little more qualified now to give my study advice. I took the civil PM section and solely used the Texas A&amp;M videos and the NCEES reference manual. I watched each lecture upwards of three times, taking my own notes as I go (helped me reinforce the concepts by writing, seeing, and hearing).

I focused as hard as I could on the area I took in school (basically all of the civil lectures at the bottom of the list page). Luckily the exam is not designed to make sure you know how to do all the problems in all the areas being tested so make sure you know how to do your strengths. Since you are a civil, really put a lot of time into those video lectures dealing with the Civil areas. The videos are designed for the PE morning session but are extremely helpful for the FE afternoon civil portion. While you are writing your notes (don't just print the PDF notes....that is cheating yourself on the studying) make sure to pause often and use the reference manual to find the appropriate pages relating to the materials being reviewed. It will help make sure you can easily flip to the needed sections under the stress of the exam and will also only further engrain the material in your head. Try to do as many practice problems as you can as well....but I'm sure you got that down. Honestly, I did not even study for the electrical questions and watch the thermodynamics review lecture once. If I didn't remember how to do them before the exam, I was not going to stress myself out by trying to cram a years worth of material in my head in a month.

As for taking the exam, I did a few things that really helped me in my opinion. One was to slow my heart rate down before even cracking the exam booklet open. A few deep breaths and a clear mind will work wonders for anything you have to do and this exam is no exception. When you are racing as fast as you can it is all too easy to read over key parts of a problem or even bubble in the wrong answer. I am guessing you are aware to skip the problems that look like they will give you trouble and come back to them if you have time so I won't go over that one in detail.

Here is the most important tip I can give you that I have yet to hear from anyone or have read online: Once you fill in your bubble for the question you are on, stop and take 5 seconds and mentally see if it makes sense. I had a couple times where I entered an equation wrong in my calculator and it gave me an answer that was a choice, but not the correct one. If you stop and pull back for a second and try to generalize the problem you will hopefully catch a logical mistake in the choice you picked. If you can do it quickly, run the equation once through in the margins of the booklet only doing a unit analysis. Engineering in general is all about unit analysis; if the units work out then the numbers will most likely work out too.

Another test taking tip is to forget about everything except the problem you are working on. I caught myself a couple of times still thinking about the previous problem while working on the next one. It clouded my ability to focus 100% on the problem I was actually working on and created too much mental 'noise' to work efficiently. Remember, if you answered a problem already, forget about it and only let the current problem be in your head. On that same note, if your gut feeling is that the answer you just calculated feels like it is wrong, it probably is. You spent 4 years in school so if your mind is telling you something might be wrong, do the calculation one more time.

Now this is a heavily time influenced exam but if you can get more than half of them correct using the time you need, it won't matter about the rest. Just race down and put all one letter in the blank spots in the last minute and be certain that statistically you should get an additional 25% on top of the 50% you are sure of, resulting in a 'pass'. Make sure you get the points on the ones you know how to do....and leave the rest up to the big guy upstairs.

Good luck on your next time man...you deserve this and you will get it, don't lose sight of that fact.


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## wvgirl14 (May 20, 2011)

Don't give up! You can do this! I did what the previous poster said I watch the Texas AM videos civil and the FE ones and wrote the notes out. I also study and did the practice test again and again until I knew how to work them. Alot of prayers on test day! You can pass it. I have taken it more than once and I passed this time with civil.


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## STEEL MAN (May 20, 2011)

wvgirl14 said:


> Don't give up! You can do this! I did what the previous poster said I watch the Texas AM videos civil and the FE ones and wrote the notes out. I also study and did the practice test again and again until I knew how to work them. Alot of prayers on test day! You can pass it. I have taken it more than once and I passed this time with civil.


wvgirl,

CONGRATS on your FE!!!!!


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## Exception Collection (May 20, 2011)

STEEL MAN said:


> wvgirl14 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't give up! You can do this! I did what the previous poster said I watch the Texas AM videos civil and the FE ones and wrote the notes out. I also study and did the practice test again and again until I knew how to work them. Alot of prayers on test day! You can pass it. I have taken it more than once and I passed this time with civil.
> ...


Seconded. For that matter, grats to everyone that passed, condolences to those that didn't.

SHatfield,

I pretty much agree with everything said above. Study hard. Sounds like you know what your weak points are. I suggest getting multiple practice exams, and try to take them all over the last month or so. Time yourself for each of them, and try to speed yourself up each time. Try to do it when you're going to be busy - one thing I did when I prepped for the exam was take a practice exam with only the allotted time (for each question, if it's a shorter test) available before something happened (dinner with the family/friends, etc) - so I was in a hurry to finish it up by the end, just like I expected to be at the site.

If you have time, do two reviews of your test answers when you sit for it. The first is basically a recalc/sanity check, the second is a verification of things you weren't 100% sure on after the second check.

Most of all... breathe. Don't stress too much; it hinders memory and encourages mistakes.


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## checkmates98 (May 20, 2011)

Make your weakness your strength. No matter how long it takes. If you are weakest in X, and you have to do section X questions, then focus on mastering section X questions because that's where you get the most bang for your study time. That is where you have the most room to improve. Once you master section X and make it one of your strengths, then attack your next weakest section, say section Q. That's where you get the next best return on investment.

Focus 100% of your study time on problems and solutions. Only read what you absolutely must read in order to understand stuff that just doesn't make any sense.


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## ARE E (May 25, 2011)

I just discovered that I once again failed. This would be my 3rd time taking it. I graduated in Architectural engineering with a structural emphasis but have been taking the civil afternoon portions. I’m not sure what my options are at this point I’ve heard that after a 3rd time you are required to take 12 credits of classes that the board decides that you take. Any thoughts on the matter and is it worth it?


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## Exception Collection (May 25, 2011)

ARE E said:


> I just discovered that I once again failed. This would be my 3rd time taking it. I graduated in Architectural engineering with a structural emphasis but have been taking the civil afternoon portions. I’m not sure what my options are at this point I’ve heard that after a 3rd time you are required to take 12 credits of classes that the board decides that you take. Any thoughts on the matter and is it worth it?


Umm. The worth of the FE can be up for debate, especially if you don't plan on becoming licensed. That said, I would strongly consider *why* you are failing to pass it. Are you just stressing out during the exam? Having issues answering all of the questions in the time allotted? Just plain missing the questions?

Can you get and post a diagnostic?


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## TXEngr (May 26, 2011)

Download, print, and STUDY the FE handbook. 80% or more of the questions come straight out of it. Know it front and back.

I passed first try with an 86 using this method, 7 years out of school.


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## EE_Mike (May 28, 2011)

I fully agree with what Karen said above about whether it is worth it. If you're not pursuing a professional engineering (PE) license, then there's not real point in passing the FE to get your EIT certification. This is especially true if your current employer doesn't place any importance on the EIT cert and wouldn't give you a raise for it.

On a side note, where in TX are you TXEngr? Houston here.


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## HerrKaLeun (May 29, 2011)

guys: some advice.... study by doing the "500" sample questions and do the practice exams under real world conditions. the big yellow book isn't really good for FE (and it is closed book anyway).

I recommend doing (or attempting to) do all the sample questions with the allowed calculator and the NCEES supplied equation books only (like in the real test)

I took the FE 4 years ago and passed at the first time (I'm a PE now...)... and don't recall 100% how the test was. but I almost only studied with the sample questions and exams... not the reference manual. As the name indicates, it is a reference manual... that you won't have available at the test.

the 500 Lindeburg sample questions are partially harder than the test (by now you likely know how hard the real test is).

Probably good to browse through the reference manual... but it is not really that useful for FE (the PE reference manual actually will be useful for PE test, since that is open book). If you have too much time, you can do the sample question from the reference manual after you did the 500 questions.

good luck next time


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## Exception Collection (May 29, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> Probably good to browse through the reference manual... but it is not really that useful for FE (the PE reference manual actually will be useful for PE test, since that is open book). If you have too much time, you can do the sample question from the reference manual after you did the 500 questions.


Slightly offtopic, but the PE reference manual was useful in the PE exam. I actually had extra space in the wheeled suitcase I was using to transport books (Civil-Structural depth, so a reasonable number - not necessarily like EE, where hardly any books are needed) ... so I took my FE reference ones as well, since all it did was increase the weight slightly worst case and they had a small chance of having useful information.

I did leave the kitchen sink behind, though. And in retrospect, I wish I hadn't taken as many; I think I actually pulled out and referenced maybe 4 books during the PE, and I ended up breaking the suitcase on a curb. Not that it'll stop me from taking most of them to the Structural exam in 2012, mind.

The FE reference manual? I got it, but I mostly used it as a study guide so I would know which portions of the non-engineering subjects would be critical. Unless you didn't attend college or it's been a long time since you did, I doubt it'll be very useful.


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## RyRobe (Jun 1, 2011)

SHatfield said:


> Found out that I failed the FE exam for the third time on Monday. Spent a night licking my wounds and got over it. First time I put forth zero effect and failed. Second time put forth little effort and failed. Third time I studied for three solid months for the exam (Civil PM). Honestly tried really hard and thought the exam went well. I knew there were some questions I didn't know, but overall I felt so much better than I did on the first two tries.
> My diagnostic was darn near heartbreaking. I only got 8 out of 19 on math, 3 out of 6 on Statics and Dynamics both, 0 out of 7 for Environmental. I guessed completely on Thermo and Electricity and did bad. I see where the room to imporove is, but with my study materials I feel angry.
> 
> I have been studying the Yellow big book, The Yellow Civil PM, and the NCEES Ref. Manual, and the Civil NCEES Sample Exam. My frustration is that I feel like none of the materials could prepare someone enough to pass. Even going to the morning session, the chemistry is so different from any review material I've seen.
> ...







I was out of school 2 years before I attempted the FE. Big mistakes aside, I took the FE 5 times with scores always in the 60's, in fact I got three 66's in a row of taking the F.E. exam. This time I took TESTMASTERS and passed. They are very professional and teach you how to pass the test....they do not try to re-teach every class you have ever had, although they do go through all the basics. They know what the F.E. test is all about and how to be successful. I was studying with three other guys and we all passed this time....not a coincidence! Keep trying and don't give up and take TESTMASTERS if at all possible!


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