# fluids / thermo / HVAC charts for AM test?



## bph (Mar 29, 2009)

I will be taking the Machine Design Depth this April, and wonder if I need any charts for the thermo / fluids / HVAC morning session, other than what is in the MERM?

Any ideas?

Thanks,

BPH


----------



## mechie_aggie (Mar 30, 2009)

bph said:


> I will be taking the Machine Design Depth this April, and wonder if I need any charts for the thermo / fluids / HVAC morning session, other than what is in the MERM?Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BPH



I too have a similar question. I intend to take Thermal-Fluids Depth. Is the appendix section in MERM 12th Edition good enough or do I need to collect some additional charts?

Please advice.


----------



## Sschell (Mar 30, 2009)

Short answer: no...

It cant hurt to have them, I also took MD afternoon, but had the ASHRAE charts in a binder... I found it was quicker and easier to use the larger charts in the binder, but not a necessity.

I ended up having way more references than necessary at the test. This was only a bad thing because I had to park about half a mile from the test area, and did not have anything with wheels to carry my books with. also, it is just more stuff to dig through and deal with during the exam.

I would recommend keeping it to MERM + 3 to 4 other references that you are familar with.


----------



## bph (Mar 30, 2009)

dude said:


> ... I also took MD afternoon, but had the ASHRAE charts in a binder... I found it was quicker and easier to use the larger charts in the binder, but not a necessity.


Hey dude,

What ASHRAE charts did you use? I would like to buy a set but don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out which ones to purchase.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

BPH


----------



## MechGuy (Mar 30, 2009)

I would take a book on steam/gas/air tables. The tables in Lindberg are not good enough, you will have to interpolate alot. A book with steam tables and a book with gas/air tables will help you save time.


----------



## bph (Mar 30, 2009)

MechGuy said:


> I would take a book on steam/gas/air tables. The tables in Lindberg are not good enough, you will have to interpolate alot. A book with steam tables and a book with gas/air tables will help you save time.


I have the PPI - ASME mollier chart for steam, which is Huge, and will not bring it for that reason.

I also have "consolidated gas dynamics tables" from PPI, don't know if that is good for the gas/air tables you note (I have only used the MERM so far, not sure what to bring fro the actual exam).

Since I am doing MD for depth, I want a simple quick and complete reference for the morning, don't mind paying whatever it costs.

BPH


----------



## Sschell (Mar 30, 2009)

bph said:


> Hey dude,What ASHRAE charts did you use? I would like to buy a set but don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out which ones to purchase.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


I used the complete set of 5 in I-P (Link: B92200 - Complete Set of Psychrometric Charts (I-P))



MechGuy said:


> I would take a book on steam/gas/air tables. The tables in Lindberg are not good enough, you will have to interpolate alot. A book with steam tables and a book with gas/air tables will help you save time.


I reccomend Keenan &amp; Keyes for this. Definately saves time interpolating.


----------



## bph (Mar 30, 2009)

dude said:


> I used the complete set of 5 in I-P (Link: B92200 - Complete Set of Psychrometric Charts (I-P))
> I reccomend Keenan &amp; Keyes for this. Definately saves time interpolating.


I just ordered the complete set of ASHRAE charts, thanks for the link!

Does anyone recommend a specific version of the Keenan and Keyes or were to purchase?

Thanks,

BPH


----------



## Sschell (Mar 30, 2009)

I got mine off of Amazon (both Keenan keyes for steam and keenan Kaye for Gas). They were printed in 1948 and 1945 respectively. What ever you get be sure to get US units (conversions waste time).


----------



## bph (Mar 30, 2009)

dude said:


> I got mine off of Amazon (both Keenan keyes for steam and keenan Kaye for Gas). They were printed in 1948 and 1945 respectively. What ever you get be sure to get US units (conversions waste time).


Kind of strange I have to buy a 60 year old reference book, I don't know why PPI or someone else doesn't just make some exam specific reference?

Thanks for the info.

BPH


----------



## bph (Mar 30, 2009)

dude said:


> I got mine off of Amazon (both Keenan keyes for steam and keenan Kaye for Gas). They were printed in 1948 and 1945 respectively. What ever you get be sure to get US units (conversions waste time).


dude,

One more question, do you think I will need both English and metric (si) references or only English?

Thanks,

BPH


----------



## MechGuy (Mar 30, 2009)

Keenan and Keyes, I think my books were from the 50s. got em on Amazon for like $5.

The reason I bought such an old reference is because steam tables haven't changed since then.

US units should be all you would need for these references.

Really, this book is only for the 1 or 2 times you might have a steam or gas table problem and need to interpolate because the MERM tables aren't very good.

I would take the ASHRAE fundamentals book just to have other tables not in MERM, such as ammonia or R-134a.


----------



## bph (Mar 31, 2009)

MechGuy said:


> Keenan and Keyes, I think my books were from the 50s. got em on Amazon for like $5. The reason I bought such an old reference is because steam tables haven't changed since then.
> 
> US units should be all you would need for these references.
> 
> ...


Since I will be taking machine design depth, I wonder if the thermo/fluids/HVAC morning problems will require much calculations or charts? I also wonder for the morning problems, if I can just make quick low accuracy interpolations from MERM, since I will only be doing the thermo/fluids/HVAC breadth questions?

I guess when I do the NCEES practice exam I may get an idea, but that is not a large sample of what we will see in the AM.

I found some of the K&amp;K gas and steam tables on amazon, they were between $30 - $70 for the 1980 version in good condition. I have heard that some people were concerned that the older books would fall apart during the exam.

Thanks,

BPH


----------



## MechGuy (Apr 1, 2009)

bph said:


> Since I will be taking machine design depth, I wonder if the thermo/fluids/HVAC morning problems will require much calculations or charts? I also wonder for the morning problems, if I can just make quick low accuracy interpolations from MERM, since I will only be doing the thermo/fluids/HVAC breadth questions?
> I guess when I do the NCEES practice exam I may get an idea, but that is not a large sample of what we will see in the AM.
> 
> I found some of the K&amp;K gas and steam tables on amazon, they were between $30 - $70 for the 1980 version in good condition. I have heard that some people were concerned that the older books would fall apart during the exam.
> ...


i wouldn't worry about an older book "falling apart." My 1950s books worked just fine.

It's worth the cost and taking them to the exam, only if you use it once.


----------



## Sschell (Apr 1, 2009)

bph said:


> dude,One more question, do you think I will need both English and metric (si) references or only English?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BPH


English only.

I had ASHRAE, never opened it during the test.


----------



## rocketman407 (May 7, 2009)

mechie_aggie said:


> I too have a similar question. I intend to take Thermal-Fluids Depth. Is the appendix section in MERM 12th Edition good enough or do I need to collect some additional charts?
> Please advice.





I would advise to take Air tables, Steam tables, and Psychrometric charts ( seal level and with altitude - ref ASHRAE.) Practice your psych charts. During practice, I verified i was getting the right numbers from the psychrometric charts by using a nice little iPhone app called PsychroAir.


----------

