# Exam Passing Percentage



## gtech (Jun 21, 2006)

Go to NCEES website to check out..

www.ncees.org


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## ILvTigers (Jun 21, 2006)

67%! Wow, now I'll feel really bad if I failed.

Gtech, are you in Atlanta?


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## gtech (Jun 21, 2006)

No. I took exam in CT.. Still waiting..


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## 3doorsdwn (Jun 21, 2006)

Man they have got to be kidding. 38% for Str I?! WTF?! 21% for repeat takers. For first timers, that's a new low as long as I've been keeping track (since 2000). Ridiculous.


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## frustrated (Jun 21, 2006)

Now I wish I would have paid attention to the previous years' passing rates for civil


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## 3doorsdwn (Jun 21, 2006)

if you go to "the other board"'s web site; they have a historical pass rate

http://ppi2pass.com/http://ppi2pass.com/"the other board"/PPIInfo_pg_myppi-f...epassrates.html


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## frustrated (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks! My guess is that the test might get harder for the next go-around. I hope I passed!


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## frustrated (Jun 21, 2006)

When did they make the test multiple guess?


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## 3doorsdwn (Jun 21, 2006)

Don't know. At least since 2002.


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## rleon82 (Jun 21, 2006)

Glad I passed the test when I did.


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## EdinNO (Jun 21, 2006)

Good find!

Mechanical was even 2 percentage points lower than before! I feel even smarter! :thumbsup:

Ed


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## Brimstone (Jun 21, 2006)

Interesting....looking at the "the other board" historical pass rates for the CE exam, it seems as though April is always easier than October. :dunno:


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## csanped411 (Jun 21, 2006)

Now if only my state (SC) will post all the new PE's!


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## csanped411 (Jun 21, 2006)

> Now if only my state (SC) will post all the new PE's!


Sorry, I did not know gtech beat me to announcing this....


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## EdinNO (Jun 21, 2006)

Topics merged! Done deal!

Ed


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## SCPE (Jun 21, 2006)

I think the civil pass rate is around 60%. This test was definately easier. NCEES is going to drop the hammer on October examinees....

:tone:


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## rleon82 (Jun 21, 2006)

Or give them the peoples elbow.


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## DVINNY (Jun 22, 2006)

> I think the civil pass rate is around 60%. This test was definately easier. NCEES is going to drop the hammer on October examinees....
> 
> :tone:


I know it. And traditionally, it looks as if this has been the case for a while.

That's just freakin great. :bad:


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## JPMORGN11 (Jun 22, 2006)

Funny you bring that up.

I took the test last October and then again in April (unfortunately).

Now granted, I was better prepared this go round - but this exam was MUCH easier in my opinion.

Afterward I was telling that to a couple of guys I work with and they told me that had always been the story - from what they'd heard.

From what they say...that is even more the case for the FE.

Who knows?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

They weren't kidding about posting the results on the website in "about" 2 months.

I took the environmental exam, which had a pass rate of 73%. I root for people to pass, but I don't feel as special as if I passed one that had a miserable pass rate.

:woot: Awesome new smilie!


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## scottiesei (Jun 22, 2006)

Structural is at an all time low, damn with October's curve I would have made it for sure. :wtf:


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## Road Guy (Jun 22, 2006)

that structural test must be a bitch..


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## JPMORGN11 (Jun 22, 2006)

Don't you think it would be helpful if NCEES also took the time to break down the percentages for each state as well?

Perhaps that would be too much to ask. That might push the review time to maybe 15 weeks or so.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> Don't you think it would be helpful if NCEES also took the time to break down the percentages for each state as well?


Why?

Everyone (by discipline) is taking the same exam regardless of which state they are in. What would you learn by knowing that the pass rate for CEs in Ohio is higher than the pass rate for CEs in Arizona? The cut score is the same.

Am I missing something?


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

I guess you might know that you are more valuable if you passed and there are only very few people in your state passing.

Ed


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

I agree with Mike. I think it would be interesting, but not terribly relevant.

The other thing is that if you do it state by state, you can encounter a situation where you have a tiny state like mine where there aren't enough examinees to make the percentages meaningful.


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## JPMORGN11 (Jun 22, 2006)

My rational is that if I'm a PE in a state that doesn't have a high number of PEs for whatever reason, my value should be higher than if I was in a State where a PE was around every corner.

Immediately I think of areas such as Alaska and Hawaii.

I agree, we all take the same exam. Although you can't tell me that it would be that difficult to break down the percentages on a state-by-state basis.

While we're on that subject, why is there so much discrepancy amongst states as to their exam eligibility requirements? Shouldn't that be across the board also? I mean, if we're all taking the same tests anyway, should we all have to have completed the same pre-requisites in order to sit for it?

Some states will let you take the PE before you even have an FE? What sense does that make?


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## dewd (Jun 22, 2006)

What about cut scores. I know people have previous years cut scores, so who releases them and when?


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

I think since they used to give scores (now they don't any more as of October '05, I believe), people could determine the cut scores via boards like this- that is unless the actually gave the cut scores as well.

For instance, if one person got 54 right and failed and another got 55 right and passed- voila! There's your cut score!

Ed


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> My rational is that if I'm a PE in a state that doesn't have a high number of PEs for whatever reason, my value should be higher than if I was in a State where a PE was around every corner.
> Immediately I think of areas such as Alaska and Hawaii.
> 
> I agree, we all take the same exam. Although you can't tell me that it would be that difficult to break down the percentages on a state-by-state basis.
> ...


Meh.... I guess if I want to know how many Civil PEs there are in Alaska, I'd go search their database.

I think each state actually sets their own guidelines as to eligibility - not up to NCEES. I think technically, they work for the states. Although sometimes it looks like it's the other way around!


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## JPMORGN11 (Jun 22, 2006)

> > My rational is that if I'm a PE in a state that doesn't have a high number of PEs for whatever reason, my value should be higher than if I was in a State where a PE was around every corner.
> > Immediately I think of areas such as Alaska and Hawaii.
> >
> > I agree, we all take the same exam.  Although you can't tell me that it would be that difficult to break down the percentages on a state-by-state basis.
> ...


I just made that point about state's setting their own guidelines.


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## dewd (Jun 22, 2006)

So in other words, we will never know how good we did OR how good we even needed to do to pass. h43r:

They sure make predicting my pass/fail status difficult.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> I just made that point about state's setting their own guidelines.


Actually, you were asking why there was a discrepancy between states. I thought that perhaps you didn't know that each state sets their own. My bad.......


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## Road Guy (Jun 22, 2006)

I would like to see the pass rates for the states, dont know if it would really "show anything substantial" but it would be interesting to see.

Thats something that would be up to each state I imagine..


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## meers (Jun 22, 2006)

TX has the passing rates for every exam on their website. They still don't have the April 2006 passing rates up though.


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

Does anyone know why the percentage of people who pass the PE exam is so LOW for people who take the test more than once? I don't get it. This is my second time and when I saw the Stats it really discourages me. Shouldn't that percentage be higher? Please explain.


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

I've heard various theories. I don't know if I buy them or if I can remember them.

I'll see if I can recall or find the ones I've heard before.

Ed


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

There is a thread devoted to passing rates going on right now. Feel free to post your comments there.

Edit: On second thought, I've merged this with the on-going discussion about passing rates.


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

The soup nazzi has spoken. No soup for you! 

Here's the best explanation I have seen (from someone else, not me):

Short answer:

Repeat takers, by definition, tend to be people who aren't good at taking PE exams. The people who are good at it tend to pass on the first try.

Long answer:

Consider a "pool" of first-time exam takers. These people are not all alike: they have different "passing probabilities". Some are relatively smart and well prepared, so they have high "passing probabilities". Some are less smart and poorly prepared, so they have low "passing probabilities". Most people are somewhere in the middle.

After the exam has been administered, some people pass and leave the pool. Others fail and enter the "repeater pool". But the selection process is not random. People with high "passing probabilities" tend to pass and to exit the pool. People with low "passing probabilities" tend to fail, and to become repeaters.

So the "repeater pool" has a very different distribution than the "first-timer pool". The repeater pool has more people with low passing probabilities, and fewer people with high passing probabilities. So the pass rate for the repeater pool is lower than that of the original first-timer pool.

I think this one makes sense.

Ed


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

(Thank you VTEnviro, I'm so nervous, I didn't see this thread. )


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

EdinNO,

That is a great explanation, it makes perfect sense.

Thank you.

(It feels great knowing I am in the "Loser Pool")


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> Does anyone know why the percentage of people who pass the PE exam is so LOW for people who take the test more than once? I don't get it. This is my second time and when I saw the Stats it really discourages me. Shouldn't that percentage be higher? Please explain.


I've always thought it was a pure statistics reason.

Let's say you have 100 people take an exam for the first time. 60 pass and 40 don't. 60% passing rate. Let's say that of the 40 that didn't pass, some just had a bad day. Is it all 40? Probably not.

The next time the exam is given, the 40 that didn't pass are considered a group to themselves. If the 10 or 15 out of the 40 who had a bad day pass this time. That's 25-37.5% passing.

For people taking the exam multiple times, once you pass the exam you leave the pool of retakers. So the group of the retakers continue to have people who had bad days or don't do well on tests and people that don't meet the minimal competance level.

Re-reading this, I'm not sure if I'm making sense or not?


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## wutiger (Jun 22, 2006)

Mike in Gastonia...sounds very familiar. Do you listen to PacMan's sports show?

Mike from Gastonia calls in every day.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> The soup nazzi has spoken. No soup for you!
> Here's the best explanation I have seen (from someone else, not me):
> 
> Short answer:
> ...









Beat me to it! Oh well. Between us, I think we have it covered!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

Relax gknevada. I'm not taking shots at you, just trying to keep the forum in order.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> Mike in Gastonia...sounds very familiar. Do you listen to PacMan's sports show?Mike from Gastonia calls in every day.


Yes. That's where I got the name! However, I'm trying to be a tad less annoying than he is. I don't know why I picked it. Just my off-the-wall sense of humor........


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

VT,

I was just messing around with the soup nazzi thing! 

I know it probably didn't bother you!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

> VT,I was just messing around with the soup nazzi thing!
> 
> I know it probably didn't bother you!


No worries Ed.


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

I was sincere, I really meant Thanks!

I am not that thin skinned.

I have one dream right now, and that is to see my name on that Banner!


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## wutiger (Jun 22, 2006)

Mike,

Yeah, thank God I'm still at work when he's on...but they kill him on the whiner line....which I check out on my way home from CLT to Gaffney....

Sorry about the non-exam post everyone.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 22, 2006)

What discipline did you take GK?

I am fortunate to live in a state where ELSES mails the results directly. I had banner envy for a bit myself.

I spent some time in Nevada about a month ago. That's some serious desert you got there. Coming from somewhere where it's so lush they call it the "Green Mountain State" it was quite different.


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

> My rational is that if I'm a PE in a state that doesn't have a high number of PEs for whatever reason, my value should be higher than if I was in a State where a PE was around every corner.
> Immediately I think of areas such as Alaska and Hawaii.
> 
> I agree, we all take the same exam. Although you can't tell me that it would be that difficult to break down the percentages on a state-by-state basis.
> ...


What states get to take the PE exam without having the FE?

That's not fair. You're right, it should be consistent.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> Mike,
> Yeah, thank God I'm still at work when he's on...but they kill him on the whiner line....which I check out on my way home from CLT to Gaffney....
> 
> Sorry about the non-exam post everyone.


Woo-hoo! Shout out to Gaffney!


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 22, 2006)

> What states get to take the PE exam without having the FE? That's not fair. You're right, it should be consistent.


Some states allow you to take PE and FE in any order, but you are still not licensed until you pass both.

Some states allow PHDs to substitute for FE.

I think some (Nevada?) is now only requiring 2 years experience between exams instead of 4.


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

> What discipline did you take GK?
> I am fortunate to live in a state where ELSES mails the results directly. I had banner envy for a bit myself.
> 
> I spent some time in Nevada about a month ago. That's some serious desert you got there. Coming from somewhere where it's so lush they call it the "Green Mountain State" it was quite different.


I used to go to Burlington, VT every summer to visit my Aunt and Uncle. It is so beautiful there. They have a home on Lake Champlain.

I've learned to love it here. Yes, it is hot, but the nights are wonderful. You can eat outside without mosquitos, no mold, swim at nights without freezing, have a year round tan, no wool sweaters, no heavy snow boots, your car stays clean, ....

I have family in Ohio, Vermont, San Francisco, (all beautiful) must I always miss home.


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## gknevada (Jun 22, 2006)

Oh, I forgot to tell you, This time I took Civil Transportation. Last time I took Water, and I got a 64%. ouch.


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## wutiger (Jun 22, 2006)

'preciate it Mike....our claim to fame. That, and Andie McDowell, of course.

At least you've got James Worthy.


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## EdinNO (Jun 22, 2006)

I may be missing this if others have asked it, but is there any where that references pass rates per PM session?

Ie, for mechanical, did people who took HVAC do better than machine design, etc... ?

Ed


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