# Did you run out of time?



## ############01 (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm taking the Enviro exam in APril and am just curious. Did those of you who have taken the test find yourself out of time before you had a chance to check your answers? Or did you finish in, say, 3 hours and have time to spare to check answers?

I know I should gage this by working practice exams before the test but I am just curious as to what is typical.

I am worried that I have waited too long to get started studying (I started about 2 weeks ago, and am studying about an hour a night plus a 2 hour Friday afternoon class and several hours Sat/Sun.


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## ptatohed (Feb 16, 2014)

Many people here say they had time to finish all problems and then review. I'm jealous. Not me. For every exam (FE, CA Seismic, CA Survey, PE), I used my last few minutes to fill in my B's and C's. I had to guess on 10-20% of the questions each time.


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## Hackett (Feb 16, 2014)

I took the Civil AM/Structural PM. I was very surprised with the afternoon test content. I felt like each problem required more than the standard 6 minutes/problem.

For me I had about 15 minutes during the morning exam to go back and check my answers then focus on a few problems that I wasn't sure of.

For the afternoon exam, I did not answer all the questions. It was my first time taking the exam and I thought I would take the last minute to answer every question. When time was called I did not answer all the questions, poor time management and high pressure plagued me during the last minute.

Based upon the time your spending right now, I would kick it up two 2 hours a day and try getting 4+ hours each day during the weekend. Or an hour a day and 6+ hours on the weekend.


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## ############01 (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I think I probably put in about 8 hours this weekend and it feels like most of my study time will be weekends. Work is just too demanding and my mind is already fried during the week so I think an hour/day is my max. But I am considering taking a week off in March just to study. The hardest thing about the weekend studying is all the people who dont understand what I am trying to do ("you HAVE to take a break/you CANT study all the time/you're SO SMART you don't need to study you'll do fine....")

I am fortunate to not have kids or much else going on to demand my time besides study/work but it is still really hard for non-engineers to understand. I did not expect this reaction from people.


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## Hackett (Feb 17, 2014)

As a suggestion, you might break up your times of study to avoid "overload". What I mean by that is using some days to organize your notes and study material. When I look back in preparing for the exam, I spent some days studying on specific topics. Other days I was trying to tab books, organize my binders with notes I had generated.


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## center*ice (Feb 18, 2014)

The quantity of study time is not as important as the quality of the study time. Don't get me wrong, it requires a substantial amout of time to prepare for the PE exam, but focus on the material you need to cover rather than on the number of hours you spend doing it. You need to have the right study materials in order to accomplish this. As an example, I used the Mechanical Engineering Reference Manual and Practice Problems for the Mechanical PE Exam by Lindeburg, broke down each topic into weeks, and then hit each topic hard by working all the problems I could during the period I assigned to it. I stuck to my schedule and also made certain to leave myself a couple of weeks before the actual exam to work practice exams. It takes discipline, planning, and commitment to pass the PE exam. Don't allow yourself to get sidetracked by anything or by anyone. Good luck!


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## Jonhnny123 (Feb 18, 2014)

I'd recommend trying to studying 1.5 hours per night and then 6 on the weekends. In my case, I know that 8 hours each weekend would burn me out. Until the last couple of weeks, I took Saturdays completely off just to clear my head a bit. But however you want to do, just be sure you work a lot of problems!

I took the Mechanical T/F exam. I was done with the morning session in about 2 hours or maybe just a little more (including time to review my answers). In the afternoon session, I had just finished checking my answers when they called 15 minutes, so I couldn't leave early. I think I went in really well prepared and knew the MERM inside and out, so I didn't spend much time flipping pages.


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## ex nihilo (Feb 20, 2014)

To the OP remember the environmental test has 100 questions so you only have an average of 4.8 minutes each.

My approach was to practice enough quantitative problems (often plug and chug types of questions) in order to become proficient at distilling the superfluous information from the real data needed to solve the problem. My basic philosophy was that I could save a lot of time if I learned to solve these problems quickly so that I could have extra time for the qualitative questions (which you cannot really prepare for given the breadth of the material).

Maybe I got lucky but I feel my approach was sound and practical (I passed!). Good luck with the test--you'll gain an incredible sense of accomplishment and confidence after you pass.


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## CU07 (Feb 21, 2014)

I say this with some frequency on these boards, but you really can't compare the environmental exam to others with 80 questions. It's roughly half qualitative questions, which can either help or hurt you. I know people who have worked in only one disciple covered on the exam frequently struggle with qualitative questions.

In my case, I was stronger on the qualitative questions because I work broadly in the field of environmental compliance, and I either knew the answers, was familiar with the topic and just needed to verify the answer, or I was familiar enough with my references to know which 2-3 might cover that topic. I don't think I spent more than 1-2 minutes on each qualitative question, generally, but there were a few I had to spend several extra minutes on.

That said, I finished each half with at least 45 minutes to go. I spent about a half hour attempting quantitative problems that I got stuck on during the first pass through (roughly 5 on each half?), and I had 15 minutes at the end of each to make sure my bubbles were filled in properly. I didn't feel rushed.

If you haven't yet, read through the Consolidated Advice thread on the Enviro board. There's some great info there.

Also, I think you sound like you're studying pretty decently already, so I'd be careful not to burn out. I know personally I wouldn't have used my time wisely during that week in March you're talking about taking off. I didn't feel under pressure until 2-3 weeks before the exam and I really cranked up my studying then. If you're more disciplined than I am and won't end up watching March Madness or Law &amp; Order, then it could be useful. I took Thursday and Friday off before my exam and I crammed on Thursday, taking half a practice exam on my weaker topics and doing a little last-minute refresher on some of the topics I had reviewed early on. Then on Friday I packed my references into my suitcase, got my Ziploc bag of supplies in order (NY has silly requirements), and tried to relax.


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## ############01 (Feb 22, 2014)

THANK YOU all for your feedback. I am really trying not to get discouraged with how underprepared I feel. It is somewhat comforting to know that there is a good deal of qual questions, because honestly I am most intimidated by the problems. I was very good at being a student and aced the FE but since I graduated I have done very little in the way of calculations/design. I also work in compliance so 90% of what I do is wrapped up in interpreting regs.

I know I have the capacity to work through the problems because I used to be so strong in calculus, thermo, chemistry, etc. So I guess I just need to hit that hard and jog the memory.

My work schedule and environment is such that my days are pretty intense and long, so taking a week off isn't just for working problems and studying-it is also to release some of the work pressure on top of studying. I don't have cable TV and I'm a girl so network tv sports wont distract me too much either  Since I work from home I'm pretty disciplined at 'working' in the midst of laundry, dirty dishes, the presence of a television, and other potential distractors.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

I took the PE Exam three times. Each of the first two times I ran out time. Then between a combination of changing my study/prep and the use of adult diapers I able to cut down on my wasted time. Possibly as a result of this, I passed on the third attempt. Given the fact that the seats in the testing room were very rigid, the soiled diapers actually provided a gentle cushion for the afternoon. Just be careful. Stay away from Taco Bell during the lunch break. Hope this was helpful.


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## matt267 PE (Mar 12, 2014)

:mf_pain:


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## Krakosky (Mar 12, 2014)

I ran out of time on both the FE and PE but was fortunate enough to pass them on my first try. The important thing is if you get stuck on a question, move on and come back to it if you have time. I wasted a lot of time by spending too much time on questions I was stuck on. At the end I went back and answered any questions I could quickly complete and for the rest I just filled in an answer. One thing I was told is for the ones you have no clue on/can't eliminate any of the answers/don't have time to solve pick the same letter choice. You have a higher probability of getting more right that way. Good luck!


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## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

Krakosky said:


> I ran out of time on both the FE and PE but was fortunate enough to pass them on my first try. The important thing is if you get stuck on a question, move on and come back to it if you have time. I wasted a lot of time by spending too much time on questions I was stuck on. At the end I went back and answered any questions I could quickly complete and for the rest I just filled in an answer. One thing I was told is for the ones you have no clue on/can't eliminate any of the answers/don't have time to solve pick the same letter choice. You have a higher probability of getting more right that way. Good luck!


Don't forget about the adult diapers. You don't want to waste time dealing with your own waste. :mf_Flush:


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## Krakosky (Mar 12, 2014)

Lol. I didn't have that issue.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

Krakosky said:


> Lol. I didn't have that issue.


Count your blessings.


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## ############01 (Mar 15, 2014)

Well the NCEES practice test I ordered actually came with a set of practice diapers so I have been simulating test conditions pretty accurately.

I am seriously starting to get veeerrrrry nervous. My social life is nonexistent, and outside of work I pretty much do nothing but study, and yet I still keep getting stuck and making stupid mistakes. I am really questioning my decision to go after this at this point in my career....maybe I should have waited, or maybe I should have started studying sooner. And yet everyone I know is aware of what's going on (and the reason I've been MIA for the first part of 2014) and will be asking if I passed and I will be humiliated if I have to say I failed.

My other 'hobby' (and pretty much the only other thing I've been doing for myself to get me out of my head) is running but I can't even do that now because it appears I have a stress fracture.

This sucks.

Downward spiral of panic.

Is this a common phase?


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## matt267 PE (Mar 15, 2014)

I had similar feelings of anxiety prior to the eit, so I would say it's normal. The key is to not let the stress hurt you on exam day. It's a hard test, if you don't pass, who cares what others think. Your engineering friends will understand. Your non engineering friends simply won't. And if you do fail, it's not the end of the world. It sucks to fail, but you can learn from your failure. You will adjust your preparation techniques and try again.

What helped me over come the anxiety was to realize that I studied my ass off, pass or fail, I gave it everything I had.

Don't let negative thoughts distract you from your goal.

Good luck.


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## YMZ PE (Mar 15, 2014)

Many people are surprisingly understanding if you don't pass the first time, non-engineers included. Most professionals know how difficult it is to pass a board exam, and that they're by no means a measure of your intelligence or professional worth. Try not to add to the stress you're already feeling, by worrying about being judged. 

You've probably read this advice on this board many times before, but I can't reiterate enough how important it is to do practice problems. I worked through a few of the CERM problems, but mostly went through all of the Six-Minute Solutions and whatever practice problems I could find. I went through every answer and wrote notes on what concepts I needed to review. Then I took the NCEES practice test the weekend before the exam to simulate exam conditions. It made my study sessions much more focused toward what was needed to pass the exam..

One last thing - not to scare you, but that anxiety you're feeling now? Doesn't compare to the agony of the wait.


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## Krakosky (Mar 15, 2014)

You'll need the adult diapers then too as you keep hitting refresh on the NCEES site. No time for bathroom breaks.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 15, 2014)

Maximum absorbency


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## NJmike PE (Mar 15, 2014)

Now, all kidding aside. I failed. Twice. I studied endlessly and like you I lost my social life. I have a wife and three kids. Just had my third. While sitting for the exam I had two kids under the age of 3. They require time, lots. I would study at night every night. I would never see my wife after the kids went to bed. Yet I failed. Twice. I didn't know why or what else to do. But I didn't give up. Because giving up is the true failure. I have a friend who took it 7 times in total. Passed on the 7th attempt. Keep at it. You are pushing through mental fatigue. You're second guessing yourself.

The final time I took it I decided to change up my preparation. I read the cerm cover to cover, starting in June. Started doing practice problems in July. I organized my practice problems in accordance with the ncees outline. That was key. Also, I only did ncees practice problems and Practice problems from the green goswami book. Every problem I did, I kept in a 3 ring binder, in the order of the outline. I brought it to the exam.

Next, I knew the number of each type of problem being asked, based on the percentages offered in the outline. So as I went through the exam and I hit a snap, I knew exactly where I was relative to the outline. I flipped open my binder of problems, and looked for that section. Then I tried to work the problem, comparing it the one that was most similar in the binder. This worked extremely well in the morning. I was done with an hour to spare. So I went back and reviewed everything. Handed it in with 30 minutes left. I was the first one done in the room. I walked out knowing that I aced the morning section. Thinking that I only missed about 3 total problems.

Good luck. Trust yourself. Oh, and don't forget the Depends. :  :


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## Hackett (Mar 15, 2014)

> I know I have the capacity to work through the problems because I used to be so strong in calculus, thermo, chemistry, etc. So I guess I just need to hit that hard and jog the memory.




You said this earlier, I encourage you to believe in yourself as you approach the days ahead. I felt this test is about confidence and believing in yourself. Sit down and do practice problems. Stayed focused on the exam areas that the NCEES provides to test takers and do not allow your mind to second guess yourself and second guess taking this exam.

"Every accomplishment starts with the decision to try."

Anxiety is common before the test, during the test, after the test, until you get the results. Even when I passed, I still wasn't convinced that I pass and had to check and recheck the NCEES website with the results to make sure it didn't change. :mellow:


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## center*ice (Mar 15, 2014)

Hackett - funny you said you had to check and recheck to make sure you had actually passed. I felt the exact same way. After taking the exam for the second time, I wasn't sure I was reading the 'pass' result correctly. I even had to get my wife to look at it and confirm to me that I had definitely passed!


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## ############01 (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it. Not too many folks in my non-work world (and few in my work world, really) can appreciate what this is like. I got a little stuck in my first world problem hole for today I think. And I realized I had entered a dark place and my best hope for re-emergence was to take a break. So I went out for a drink with a friend who was celebrating her birthday. I was going to skip it, had already excused myself, but then I realized I was also feeling guilty. Yes, studying is piority, but an hour or two for a good friend's birthday was not that much to ask. And it turned out to be just what I needed. I came back feeling at least a little refreshed.

Now if I could just stay off the engineerboards.com forum!

ps to those of you who did this with young kids, I wouldn't think any less of you had you just said screw it. I can barely keep my houseplant alive right now.


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## YMZ PE (Mar 16, 2014)

I realize I forgot to answer the original question. I took it 2 years out of grad school and had 1-1½ hr remaining on both sections of the 8hr exam (afternoon geotech). I used the additional time to triple check my work but tried not to overthink any of the uncertain questions, going with my gut in the end. It helped that I took the CA seismic and surveying exams the day before so I was already in the rhythm, which doing the practice exam will help with too. I passed the first time but I had unusually favorable circumstances (took it 6 weeks after having my second kid so I studied intensively while on maternity leave and was given special accommodations for pump breaks).

Speaking of going with one's gut, unloading a solid in your Depends will help resolve any issues you may have with territorial table mates during the exam. Right NJ?


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## NJmike PE (Mar 16, 2014)

Exactly! They catch wind of that shit and all of a sudden you have more room at the table for movements.


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## ############01 (Mar 17, 2014)

glad to see we are keeping it classy round here. cuz we're professionals. well, at least, YOU are....


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## NJmike PE (Mar 17, 2014)

don't go and get all pissy on us. Save that for the diaper.


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## Jonhnny123 (Mar 18, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> .I have a friend who took it 7 times in total. Passed on the 7th attempt.




Not trying to be harsh, but he failed 6 times? At some point it just becomes luck that you passed.

Failure can be a great learning tool.. if you actually change your behavior because of it. After one failure, you should change your study habits and approach to the exam. I can't imagine going through the test 7 times. Even if you don't put any time in studying, it's still a huge amount of money that's just going to waste.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 18, 2014)

Jonhnny123 said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > .I have a friend who took it 7 times in total. Passed on the 7th attempt.
> ...


Well not to judge others, but he has always been a bit of an over thinker. Right through our undergrad courses. It happens. as far as his costs, yes. He spent big bucks.


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## ATL Derek (Mar 24, 2014)

I ran out of time on the TFS back in October. I had to guess on about 8 in the morning and 8 in the afternoon. I was completely unprepaired. I spent way too much time spinning wheels on problems I "thought" I knew how to solve.

Studying the second time around has been much easier but still a time crunch with a 1 and 2 year old running around. However, I did figure out I could put 5 of my kid's diapers (size 4) together to make a pretty sweet adult diaper. Hopefully none of you are sitting beside me in April.

"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way" - Babe Ruth


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## NJmike PE (Mar 24, 2014)

EngelhardDC said:


> However, I did figure out I could put 5 of my kid's diapers (size 4) together to make a pretty sweet adult diaper. Hopefully none of you are sitting beside me in April.


well done my friend. That's how you get SHIT done.


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## YMZ PE (Mar 27, 2014)

EngelhardDC said:


> However, I did figure out I could put 5 of my kid's diapers (size 4) together to make a pretty sweet adult diaper. Hopefully none of you are sitting beside me in April.




Very resourceful. That's like the scatological version of photocopying your exam references from a friend instead of buying your own.

Good luck! Getting ANYTHING done with 2 little ones is no easy feat.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 28, 2014)

YMZ PE said:


> EngelhardDC said:
> 
> 
> > However, I did figure out I could put 5 of my kid's diapers (size 4) together to make a pretty sweet adult diaper.  Hopefully none of you are sitting beside me in April.
> ...


Since 2006 (graduated in 2011) I never bought graphing paper. I always made it through AutoCAD and printed with company resources.


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## ATL Derek (Mar 28, 2014)

YMZ PE said:


> .
> Very resourceful. That's like the scatological version of photocopying your exam references from a friend instead of buying your own.
> 
> Good luck! Getting ANYTHING done with 2 little ones is no easy feat.


Most of my PE friends took the exam years ago (I graduated in 2000) and I procrastinated because my career really didn't require it. It still does not require it, but it is a personal goal of mine. In retrospect and for anyone on the pursuit of the PE, do it before kids! I think 75% of the pages in my MERM have some sort of kid scribble on it. And my practice problem pages have some sort of sticky food finger prints all over them. I'm sure NJmike can relate to this.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 28, 2014)

Yeah, I was always careful to put my stuff away and out of their reach for that reason.


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## YMZ PE (Mar 28, 2014)

^ Me too. I might have some splatter in the CERM from breastfeeding my younger one while studying, but fortunately that's about it.


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## YMZ PE (Mar 28, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> YMZ PE said:
> 
> 
> > EngelhardDC said:
> ...


Did you bring home discarded oversize plots for your kids to scribble on too?


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## NJmike PE (Mar 28, 2014)

Yup. All the time. Still do.


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## Hackett (Mar 29, 2014)

I had two kids under five during my studying time and one in the oven. My handwritten notes binder had a custom art cover drawn by my oldest that was a sanity reminder to me through the exam.

"ssshh Papa is studying" is what the kids walked around the house saying for three months.


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## NJmike PE (Mar 29, 2014)

Hackett said:


> I had two kids under five during my studying time and one in the oven. My handwritten notes binder had a custom art cover drawn by my oldest that was a sanity reminder to me through the exam.
> 
> "ssshh Papa is studying" is what the kids walked around the house saying for three months.


This is almost a mirror image of my experience in prepping for this past October exam. A 2 YO, a 3.5 YO, and a 6 month pregnant wife.


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