# Do PEs have higher hourly billing rate in EPC companies?



## mechie_aggie (May 29, 2009)

Hi all,

There have always been different thoughts on pay raise (if one gets any or not) on getting PE license. Therefore, I am looking it from a different perceptive.

If an engineer is working for a large EPC company which does mostly overseas projects, is having more licensed engineers of any advantage to the company? Lets say if they bill the overseas client for $ 100 / hr for a non-licensed engineer. Do they start billing more if the same engineer becomes licensed?

Please share your thoughts and experiences.


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## geofs_PE (May 30, 2009)

I have worked for two relatively small consulting companies (30-50 employees), no overseas work, mostly fairly local projects within a 200 mile radius. Both companies took advantage of PE status by billing 10-15% more for an employee with a license. Salaries, however, are all over the map and usually reflect the company's needs when an individual is hired. If the company is really short on ME's, for example, with a large mechanical project looming, they will offer more than if they have a lighter project load, supply and demand, I guess. If a current employee becomes licensed, they usually look at promoting that individual into a higher billing rate position with a raise. That's usually done during the annual evaluation cycle.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 17, 2009)

geofs said:


> I have worked for two relatively small consulting companies (30-50 employees), no overseas work, mostly fairly local projects within a 200 mile radius. Both companies took advantage of PE status by billing 10-15% more for an employee with a license. Salaries, however, are all over the map and usually reflect the company's needs when an individual is hired. If the company is really short on ME's, for example, with a large mechanical project looming, they will offer more than if they have a lighter project load, supply and demand, I guess. If a current employee becomes licensed, they usually look at promoting that individual into a higher billing rate position with a raise. That's usually done during the annual evaluation cycle.


This is why I have always held to the principle that I value loyalty, you are a fool if you stick around forever at one company. I am not saying I would jump every 2-5 years, but at some point in order to see that you maximizing your income you are forced to look around.

Of course if your current company keeps taking care of you and you are consistently getting raises/promotions/profit sharing I wouldn't leave.


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## IlPadrino (Jun 17, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> This is why I have always held to the principle that I value loyalty, you are a fool if you stick around forever at one company. I am not saying I would jump every 2-5 years, but at some point in order to see that you maximizing your income you are forced to look around.
> Of course if your current company keeps taking care of you and you are consistently getting raises/promotions/profit sharing I wouldn't leave.


It ain't always about the money... stop measuring your success by the size of your W-2! I could make lots more out of the military... you could even argue I might be able to make up my retirement in just five years. But nothing (from my perspective) beats the Navy corporation, at least for the time being...


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 17, 2009)

IlPadrino said:


> It ain't always about the money... stop measuring your success by the size of your W-2! I could make lots more out of the military... you could even argue I might be able to make up my retirement in just five years. But nothing (from my perspective) beats the Navy corporation, at least for the time being...


I find your post somewhat offensive and at the very least nearsighted.

I don't measure success by my W-2, its rather about taking care of what I like to call D.Kephart INC.

If my Employer stopped paying me -I will quit showing up. I suspect 99% of you would too.

For those of us not in the Military, if times are hard your employer will lay you off -with barely a glance over their shoulders, sometimes we need to "fire" our employers for better opportunities. It has been a very long times since most companies showed employees the sort of loyalty think we need to show them.

How many times have you hear of people let go after 20 years of employment then have few prospects for a new job, because all they have really done in their careers is that one niche thing? This is why you need to maximize your pay and career opportunities.

If you like the Navy, great for you, I served in the Army myself, but I am sick of engineers settling for in my opinion far too little pay, then complaining about it.


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## IlPadrino (Jun 17, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> I find your post somewhat offensive and at the very least nearsighted.


That's funny... you call someone a "fool" if they stick around forever at one company and I say it "ain't always about the money" - and you're offended!

You very clearly wrote "at some point in order to see that you maximizing your income you are forced to look around" - I take that to mean you measure your success by your W-2. I choose not to look at it that way.

If you think most companies don't show employees sufficient loyalty, consider these "companies" are run by "employees" for the most part. For me, loyalty is as important as the W-2. And there ARE companies that value loyalty and repay in kind.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 18, 2009)

IlPadrino said:


> That's funny... you call someone a "fool" if they stick around forever at one company and I say it "ain't always about the money" - and you're offended!


Actually reread your post, nowhere did you say "ain't all about the money". I agree. However, you chose to utilize other terms. You brought up your W-2 not me, is there something about your size which bothers you? Obviously it does or else you wouldn't be able to pay for your retirement in 5 short years.

How long you been with the Navy? Just so we are clear last I checked they weren't a Corporation.

And do I measure my worth to the company by how much they pay me? Yes to some degree I do, if they didn't pay me as much, I would assume they did not value me as much as another Engineer doing the same job making more money. Exactly how else would you judge their value? By kind words and pats on the head?

Show me the company that will put loyalty on paper and I would gladly take less money. THEY DON'T EXIST.


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## IlPadrino (Jun 18, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> Actually reread your post, nowhere did you say "ain't all about the money". I agree. However, you chose to utilize other terms. You brought up your W-2 not me, is there something about your size which bothers you? Obviously it does or else you wouldn't be able to pay for your retirement in 5 short years.


The first six words of my post were "It ain't always about the money", which you QUOTED, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. There is nothing about my W-2 that bothers me, so you're "obviously" is misplaced. I mentioned my retirement because many are quick to point out the military retirement (which isn't vested until you start collecting) should be figured into compensation - I and believe I could make up that compensation in just five years (despite it taking 20 to accrue)



D. Kephart said:


> How long you been with the Navy? Just so we are clear last I checked they weren't a Corporation.


I consider it a Corporation/Enterprise/Business similar to many others - it's about as big by way of employees as the 10th largest Fortune 500 company.



D. Kephart said:


> And do I measure my worth to the company by how much they pay me? Yes to some degree I do, if they didn't pay me as much, I would assume they did not value me as much as another Engineer doing the same job making more money. Exactly how else would you judge their value? By kind words and pats on the head?


I've already said "it ain't always about the money" (remember?) And I was talking about what I value in an employer, not what an employer values in me. You make me think you suffer from a sort of "small penis complex" if you're tying your total value to the company by comparing to salaries of your coworkers. In fact, your recent post about what you'd do if you pass the exam seems to support this.



D. Kephart said:


> Show me the company that will put loyalty on paper and I would gladly take less money. THEY DON'T EXIST.


Loyalty isn't something you put on paper... that's what contracts are for. Of course there are companies who are fiercely loyal to their employees - maybe it's just that you haven't found one yet or you aren't deserving (and I don't mean that to be insulting... just pointing out an obvious option for explanation).


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## CbusPaul (Jun 18, 2009)

Fast on its way to the hall of fame.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 18, 2009)

Sorry about the first line, what I was thinking isn't exactly what I ended up typing. What I meant was that I would agree that it ain't all about the money, but I don't that I somehow derive all worth from how much I am paid, if that was the case I would be a salesman, not an engineer.

And sure the Navy is as big as lots of Corporations, except you can't be fired or quit. This is a big difference than the private sector, aka the real world.

FYI I was in the Army and at no point did I feel I was treated as an employee, I was a soldier, its way different.

And I am sorry, but maybe we are talking about two different things, aren't Contracts WRITTEN ON PAPER? Out here in the Private sector, hardly anybody but Executives are offered Employee Agreements (ie contracts) the rest of use guys that work for a living are At-Will Employees, which means we can walk out the door or be shown it at anytime. Please feel free to enlighten me with a broad list of companies that routinely offer lowly Employee Engineers Contracts.

The "Fiercely Loyal" stuff in my opinion is BS. How do you prove this? Because the Navy has never fired you? People are laid off all the time from lots of companies, the companies make these decisions not base on anything other the the bottom line.

And I am not talking about myself, actually I have never been laid off from a job or fired, -knock on wood. So it isn't like I am a bitter about my personal situation.


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## IlPadrino (Jun 18, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> Sorry about the first line, what I was thinking isn't exactly what I ended up typing. What I meant was that I would agree that it ain't all about the money, but I don't that I somehow derive all worth from how much I am paid, if that was the case I would be a salesman, not an engineer.


OK... I'm still confused, though. You wrote "This is why I have always held to the principle that I value loyalty, you are a fool if you stick around forever at one company. I am not saying I would jump every 2-5 years, but at some point in order to see that you maximizing your income you are forced to look around." I took this to mean that if you didn't maximize your income you were being a fool. If that's not what you meant, I misunderstood.



D. Kephart said:


> And sure the Navy is as big as lots of Corporations, except you can't be fired or quit. This is a big difference than the private sector, aka the real world.
> FYI I was in the Army and at no point did I feel I was treated as an employee, I was a soldier, its way different.


You were in the U. S. Army? The United States has an all-volunteer military (which you'd know if you served in the U. S. Army) and after your contracted obligation is up, you can quit at any time, notwithstanding stop loss policies. You can be fired at ANY time. Is the public sector in another dimension? I didn't realize it was outside the "real world".



D. Kephart said:


> And I am sorry, but maybe we are talking about two different things, aren't Contracts WRITTEN ON PAPER? Out here in the Private sector, hardly anybody but Executives are offered Employee Agreements (ie contracts) the rest of use guys that work for a living are At-Will Employees, which means we can walk out the door or be shown it at anytime. Please feel free to enlighten me with a broad list of companies that routinely offer lowly Employee Engineers Contracts.
> The "Fiercely Loyal" stuff in my opinion is BS. How do you prove this? Because the Navy has never fired you? People are laid off all the time from lots of companies, the companies make these decisions not base on anything other the the bottom line.


I don't understand why you're talking about Employee Agreements... I'm trying to explain why LOYALTY isn't something you put on paper (which, as you point out, is why there are Employee Agreement contracts). If you find is BS that there are fiercely loyal companies, so be it... But my response has nothing to do with not being fired by the Navy and it doesn't have anything to do with people getting laid off all the time from lots of companies. Not all companies are about the bottom line!

Sheesh! and I thought *I* was cynical.


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## mechie_aggie (Jun 18, 2009)

Wow!!

Never thought that this thread will take such a drastic turn.

Is the discussion relevant to the topic title?


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 18, 2009)

mechie_aggie said:


> Wow!!
> Never thought that this thread will take such a drastic turn.
> 
> Is the discussion relevant to the topic title?


No

The original post I responded to was noting that people doing the same job are often paid quite different sums of money often based on when people are hired, not how good they are.

That is why I believe it is foolish to stay at the same company forever.

The Navy Man disagrees.


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