# Balanced answers



## SES (Jul 3, 2012)

Seome people say that the exams have a perfectly balanced answers, I mean the same amount of a,b,c,d as correct answers? From your experience, what can you say about that?????


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## snickerd3 (Jul 3, 2012)

false


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 3, 2012)

Some people are full of it.


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## SES (Jul 3, 2012)

thanks for quick reply :wave2:


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## ptatohed (Jul 3, 2012)

Maybe I am missing something.

1.) Why is this relevant in the first place?

2.) But 2, if the answers (A, B, C, D) are random and each have equal opportunity of being the answer, why wouldn't the amount of A,B,C,D's be pretty close to balanced?


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## IlPadrino (Jul 4, 2012)

I say "true" or very nearly so. Why not?


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## mrt406 (Jul 5, 2012)

If there were in infinite number of questions then this would be true. But I'm sure they don't go out of their way to make sure there's the exact same number of each answer.

Balanced? Probably. Perfectly balanced? Probably not.


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## civilized_naah (Jul 5, 2012)

ptatohed said:


> Maybe I am missing something.
> 
> 1.) Why is this relevant in the first place?
> 
> 2.) But 2, if the answers (A, B, C, D) are random and each have equal opportunity of being the answer, why wouldn't the amount of A,B,C,D's be pretty close to balanced?




It is relevant because in your guessing period, if you do a count of those already answered (with a high degree of confidence, of course - otherwise this has no significance) and IF you observe that one of those choices (A,B,C,D) has a markedly lower frequency than the other three, then you are better off putting down that choice for the unanswered questions.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 8, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> But I'm sure they don't go out of their way to make sure there's the exact same number of each answer.


You're sure? How could you be sure?


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## mrt406 (Jul 8, 2012)

IlPadrino said:


> mrt406 said:
> 
> 
> > But I'm sure they don't go out of their way to make sure there's the exact same number of each answer.
> ...


Because that would be retarded, and they're smarter than that.


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## civilized_naah (Jul 8, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> Because that would be retarded, and they're smarter than that.


How are you sure of THAT?


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## IlPadrino (Jul 9, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> Because that would be retarded, and they're smarter than that.


Now you're just talking out of your ass... 'cause I sure smell the shit! Ever heard of psychometrics?


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## mrt406 (Jul 9, 2012)

civilized_naah said:


> mrt406 said:
> 
> 
> > Because that would be retarded, and they're smarter than that.
> ...


Ok, ok.... granted I'm not SURE of it. But I'm most nearly completely sure of it. I'm also not sure that a team of sealions wrote the test, or that the whole PE license/test/industry isn't a fabrication of my imagination.... but I'm pretty darn certain of it.



IlPadrino said:


> Ever heard of psychometrics?


Yes, which is why I'm "sure" that they don't specifically make the _exact same_ number of each answer choice. If that were the case, you could determine the answer to a question based upon the number of answer choices selected on the other questions, and not on the question itself. That would degrade the quality of the exam, which is the exact opposite of what psychometrics hopes to achieve.

That being said, my assumption is that the answers are randomized within the choices, with each having the same probability. As I said before, if you had an infinite number of questions then, yes, each choice would appear the same number of times. But there isn't. So you _might _get the same number of answer choices, you might not. I certainly wouldn't go into the exam expecting there to be.


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## MA_PE (Jul 9, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> civilized_naah said:
> 
> 
> > mrt406 said:
> ...


Wouldn't this be true only if you were sure all of the other answers were correct? When you got to the end of the test and the answers were not balanced, how would you know which answers to change to balance it?


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## Ble_PE (Jul 9, 2012)

Just pick C every time.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 9, 2012)

It was A when I took it. scared the crap out of me too. a run of 6-8 questions all with the same letter for the correct answer and I was certain of my selection too.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 9, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> Wouldn't this be true only if you were sure all of the other answers were correct? When you got to the end of the test and the answers were not balanced, how would you know which answers to change to balance it?


I was also wondering this.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 9, 2012)

Choose E.

Don't be a slave to the machine.


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## ptatohed (Jul 9, 2012)

So, let's say that among a cluster of questions that you felt really, really good about, the answer was B for each. Now, later in the exam when you are guessing..... do you choose B because B is the "common answer for this exam" or do you choose one of the other answers, because "all the B's have surely been used up"?


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## IlPadrino (Jul 9, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> That being said, my assumption is that the answers are randomized within the choices, with each having the same probability. As I said before, if you had an infinite number of questions then, yes, each choice would appear the same number of times. But there isn't. So you _might _get the same number of answer choices, you might not. I certainly wouldn't go into the exam expecting there to be.


But you don't know how they do it? There are certainly tests that use a balanced answer key - you could google this if you'd like to learn more.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jul 9, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> It was A when I took it. scared the crap out of me too. a run of 6-8 questions all with the same letter for the correct answer and I was certain of my selection too.


Any time I get 3 of the same letter I was certain one was wrong. No proof, just my gut feeling, and when I checked my math on those 3 there would always be one that I changed.


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## mrt406 (Jul 9, 2012)

IlPadrino said:


> But you don't know how they do it? There are certainly tests that use a balanced answer key - you could google this if you'd like to learn more.


No, I already said I don't for sure know how they do it. I was simply giving my opinion of how they do. Perhaps rather than being repeatedly antagonistic, you could offer something constructive to the discussion. As for googling tests that use a _perfectly _balanced answer key... there's a lot of dumb things I can find on google, like chat roulette.

My suggestion is, rather than waste time counting up how many of each answer you have, figuring out which ones you're sure of, which ones you're not, and then somehow distributing the answers which aren't "used up".... I would look at each question independantly, eliminate any answers that you can, and then give your best guess of the one's remaining. If you have absolutely no idea then I would...



Capt Worley PE said:


> Choose E.
> 
> Don't be a slave to the machine.


Because it doesn't really matter.


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## MA_PE (Jul 9, 2012)

at the risk of belaboring this point. It might be logical to have equal numbers of the same answers because if the scantron had a glitch and was incorrectly tallying one of the answers (A,B,C, or D), then all testers would have the same advantage (if the scantron marked an incorrect as correct) or disadvantage (scantron recorded a correct answer as wrong).


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## IlPadrino (Jul 10, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> No, I already said I don't for sure know how they do it. I was simply giving my opinion of how they do. Perhaps rather than being repeatedly antagonistic, you could offer something constructive to the discussion. As for googling tests that use a _perfectly _balanced answer key... there's a lot of dumb things I can find on google, like chat roulette.


I'm antagonistic, but you implied that anyone who thought they used a perfectly balanced answer key was stupid and retarded?



mrt406 said:


> Yes, which is why I'm "sure" that they don't specifically make the _exact same_ number of each answer choice. If that were the case, you could determine the answer to a question based upon the number of answer choices selected on the other questions, and not on the question itself. That would degrade the quality of the exam, which is the exact opposite of what psychometrics hopes to achieve.


As someone else pointed out, that's only helpful if you know you've gotten every answered question correct. If you're that smart, who cares that you're given the last answer for free or the last two answers at a fifty percent discount?


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 10, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > Choose E.
> ...


My general guide in life about such things is the answer to the question, "Will it matter in 100 years?"


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 10, 2012)

Thought this might be relevant to the discussion to lighten things up a bit:


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## mrt406 (Jul 10, 2012)

IlPadrino said:


> I'm antagonistic, but you implied that anyone who thought they used a perfectly balanced answer key was stupid and retarded?


Whoa now... I never implied that anyone who thought that was stupid or retarded. I simply expressed that I thought balancing the answers was retarded. There is a subtle difference. Perhaps "retarded" wasn't the best word choice and, for that, I apologize.



knight1fox3 said:


> Thought this might be relevant to the discussion to lighten things up a bit:


Hey, don't get me wrong, I do the exact same thing whenever I don't know the answer to a question. My only point was that I wouldn't recommend people second guess their answers simply because they don't add up evenly.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 10, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> My general guide in life about such things is the answer to the question, "Will it matter in 100 years?"


Well what are the ABCD answers?


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 10, 2012)




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## IlPadrino (Jul 11, 2012)

mrt406 said:


> My only point was that I wouldn't recommend people second guess their answers simply because they don't add up evenly.


I agree completely... you wouldn't know which answers to second guess.


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## NYMechEng (Nov 19, 2012)

This sounds like a "cut score" discussion, but only different. Oye ve! Mios dio?


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## Vinsanity (Dec 3, 2012)

not really but a series or pattern might occur, it could be or not on purpose by NCEES, who knows.


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## Gaussy (Dec 3, 2012)

The PE-Electrical Power answer sheet, when filled in, should always looks like a resistor...


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## ptatohed (Dec 3, 2012)

civilized_naah said:


> ptatohed said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I am missing something.
> ...



I still contend that it is not relevant.


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## AZCIVILTRANS (Dec 3, 2012)

I agree it is not relevant although I had an almost perfectly balanced sheet both morning and afternoon and did not look at the balance until I was done. We should know in a week or so if there is anything to it.


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## Lumber Jim (Dec 3, 2012)

I didn't win the powerball on Wednesday last week. 

But since I didn't win, my chances for this week are better now... right?


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## dcarnley (Dec 11, 2012)

Sounds like a Black Magic approach to pass the exam which may work if we were taking the Professional Alchemist Exam. I would just focus on doing a good job of reading the questions and logically deducing the answers down to two or three based on your judgment.


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