# Preparing for April 2007 PE



## PhillyEngr (Jan 6, 2007)

Has anyone tried the ppi2pass Passing Zone? Is it worth spending the $200?


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## ktulu (Jan 6, 2007)

I have not, but would be interested as well....

ktulu


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 6, 2007)

The required books are $497 in a package deal. Add this to that amount.

:true:


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 6, 2007)

Which depth are you doing?


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## PhillyEngr (Jan 6, 2007)

> Which depth are you doing?


I will do Geotech Depth. I have the study material, just need the 15 weekly guided program or some sort of regimented study process. The few things I like about it: On-line good for me as I travel a lot; $700 for a 15 wk-3hr review course vs $200.


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 6, 2007)

Where are you getting only $200? What about the books? By my calcs, the min for taking that thing that "the other board" has is at least $700. Except for the fact that you would have some books (most of which are very useful and would be recommended), the cost is the same.

UCF has a course for alumni that didn't cost that much and I took it in 1997 (I think it was 1997 but could be 1998) and I could have retaken it for free if I had wanted too. Look into your university options and buy the books you will need.

I can compile a small list of books that you should use and, perhaps, some others could recommend some other books they might feel would be useful.

Start a thread called "Preparing for the Geotech depth PE" on this board and I will post the list along with cost (with some savings for the books at the other site...found a way to do that too...cool).


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## caneriver (Jan 6, 2007)

I went thru "the other board"'s passing zone before the Oct 06 PE exam WR depth. I did pass the exam, but not sure if it was due to the passing zone . . . or just a really good nights sleep the night before. The passing zone helped me stay organized and on a strict study schedule. Each week they give you about 5 problems to solve and if you need help, one of their experts (typically a college prof) is available to help you with any problem/concept pertaining to the specific subject for that week. But after that week is up, they move on to something else. The problems are good. It would be great for someone not good at staying on a schedule or needing some tutoring. On a couple of their problems I didn't have the suggested reference mat'ls (like Metcaff/Edy or geotech stuff) and the "teacher" of the week personally emailed me a pdf copy of charts and formulas. Like I said before, I can't say I passed because I went thru the passing zone, but it did give me a little boost. Seriously I don't see why this board can't do the same thing.


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 6, 2007)

You can get that here for free (or on my new board which, when I can find some time might get started) at http://www.f'tard.com. Why spend the money?

I am sure I can get a thread going that is pinned about preparing for the exams and have some that have passed post problems and such. We can even set timetables if that helps.


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## ferryg (Jan 7, 2007)

I did not do the Passing Zone, but I did shell out the $40 or so for 30 days of the Exam Cafe. To be honest, I thought it was kind of useful. The questions on there are of a very hard format (IMO)...but it might help you get prepared a little better. Especially if you don't want to spend as much as the Passing Zone costs.

I thought the cafe might have only helped me get a couple of additional questions correct on the exam...but as we all know...one or two questions can be the difference. With all the money I spent on books...another $40 seemed rather trivial at that point.

Just my '.02'


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## PhillyEngr (Jan 7, 2007)

> Where are you getting only $200? What about the books? By my calcs, the min for taking that thing that "the other board" has is at least $700. Except for the fact that you would have some books (most of which are very useful and would be recommended), the cost is the same.
> UCF has a course for alumni that didn't cost that much and I took it in 1997 (I think it was 1997 but could be 1998) and I could have retaken it for free if I had wanted too. Look into your university options and buy the books you will need.
> 
> I can compile a small list of books that you should use and, perhaps, some others could recommend some other books they might feel would be useful.
> ...


Tmckeon and all..

Thanks for the suggestions. I agree that the Passing Zone will only enforce a routine and the way this board is set up, it can be done here as well (dont know how but have the faith!).

I will start the new thread "Preparing for the Geotech depth PE".


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 7, 2007)

PhillyEngr,

See that you were successful in getting that thread started. Ask DVINNY or RoadGuy to pin the thread or make a prep forum and pin it there.

I will start WR, but due to time constraints, will need some help with the running of it.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2007)

> Seriously I don't see why this board can't do the same thing.


You are absolutely right cane - only thing would be critical timing issues.

I am finishing my Thesis and preparing to defend for early February, so my time is limited at the moment. I suspect some of the other members' time is limited as well with other projects. For myself, I expect to become more involved in assisting with bringing this type of 'feel' to the board. :+1:

Regards,

JR


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## DVINNY (Jan 7, 2007)

> I expect to become more involved in assisting with bringing this type of 'feel' to the board. :+1:


I hope so. :resp This board is not even a year old yet, and it is just a baby, I hope we can get it to that point where there is alot of real good help on here.

I think it's come a long way already, imagine in the next few years.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2007)

> > I expect to become more involved in assisting with bringing this type of 'feel' to the board.  :+1:
> 
> 
> I hope so. :resp This board is not even a year old yet, and it is just a baby, I hope we can get it to that point where there is alot of real good help on here.
> ...


I am definitely here to stay and have been recommending the board to everyone who has e-mailed me about preparation. Word-of-mouth goes a long way :true:

I hope a little




will inspire others to :study more efficiently and effectively and lead to more :congrats: :congrats:

This is a cool group - I for one a glad to be a part of it :???:

JR


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## Government Engineer (Jan 22, 2007)

tmckeon_PE said:


> You can get that here for free (or on my new board which, when I can find some time might get started) at http://www.f'tard.com. Why spend the money?
> I am sure I can get a thread going that is pinned about preparing for the exams and have some that have passed post problems and such. We can even set timetables if that helps.


That url didn't work for me... I ended up at some strange search engine.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2007)

It's a strange search engine ... for a strange person










Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The website you are looking for is posted as Engineer Trades.

You will note it is not up and running yet, Tom has been busy with some other projects.

The Exam Preparation threads here at EB.com are the *BEST* source of information going!!



Please feel free to post questions about materials, study schedules, pointers, or whatever comes to mind.

Regards,

JR


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## Tina (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, I'm enrolled in "the other board"'s Passing Zone. So far I think it's useful. It helps me stay focused and they answer all questions. I had also enrolled in the Passing Zone for the FE exam last year and I think it helped a lot. Regarding the price, I would have bought the books anyway, so the additional $190 for the Passing Zone didn't really make a big difference.

Tina


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## Government Engineer (Jan 22, 2007)

OK, let me fire off some more questions to seek some more opinions. It seems like people on these boards enjoy sharing their opinions, so I won't hold back on my questions...

For various reasons, I didn't get a packet submitted in time to take the April exam here in NC. My plan is to submit one in the next month or two in hopes to sit for the October exam. However, I've probably got more time to study now than I will in the months leading up to the October exam. Has anyone tried a long-term study strategy, perhaps putting in fewer hours per week but still trying to hit a cumulative in the zone?

Based on my reading of the board, the zone seems to be 200 to 300 hours of study. I know one size doesn't fit all, but I've got to start somewhere with my strategy. Right now, I'm thinking of trying to come up with some kind of schedule with hours of study matched up to the topics on the exam. That way I can work along based on the time I have available. Any comments on this? Has someone already done this?

Would it be more effective to commit to working a certain number of problems rather than working for a certain number of hours?

It sounds like "the other board"'s review program is not self-paced. Is anyone aware of a self-pace review program for the PE?

Has anyone used review materials or programs from MGI or NSPE or NCEES?

Right now, it sounds like the best thing to do is work through the problems in the CERM Practice Problems book for the areas I'm going to be focusing on in depth (WR).


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## Government Engineer (Jan 22, 2007)

Also, according to the NCEES website, the breakdown for the WR questions was written in 2000. If the breakdown hasn't changed, is there any good reason to run out and buy a new Lindeburg book? I've got the 7th edition / 1999 CERM and Practice Problems. Does anyone know exactly what changes between these editions?


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## redrum (Jan 22, 2007)

I am using the 8th, but the only thing that really has changed is Transportation and Structural. so for the most part you need to skip those sections and use another reference.

I'm on my 3rd try, and I do transportaion design, and even I thought the AM transpo questons were "whack"

I am starting to wish I had brought more books to the exam myself (for the morning)


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2007)

Government Engineer said:


> OK, let me fire off some more questions to seek some more opinions. It seems like people on these boards enjoy sharing their opinions, so I won't hold back on my questions...


You are right - if you are looking for an opinion, you have come to the right place !! :lmao:

In response to your questions:

_Has anyone tried a long-term study strategy, perhaps putting in fewer hours per week but still trying to hit a cumulative in the zone?_

I spent a solid month accumulating and organizing my references/materials. That sounds crazy to you doesn't it ?? Well, I found that organization was a solid key to getting this exam done right. If you don't know where to find 'it' you are going to be in big trouble come exam time. Also, a lot of my material overlapped, so I ended up making subject binders for each of my areas. I included often used equations/conversions, some problems, and supporting tables, charts, figures, etc. I found myself constantly updating these binders, up until the night before the exam.

_Right now, I'm thinking of trying to come up with some kind of schedule with hours of study matched up to the topics on the exam. That way I can work along based on the time I have available. Any comments on this? Has someone already done this?_

I think you need to spend more time on the subjects that you are going to most likely encounter (e.g. your Depth areas); however, give yourself enough time to prepare for ALL of the AM material. I always made the mistake of 'skipping' those problems I didn't think I need. Big mistake - cost me three more admissions to the big dance.

Look at what the exam specification provides for in the morning for each subject. Follow those subjects in the CERM since that will most likely be your primary go-to source during the exam. Be prepared to supplement your subject binder based on deficiencies in the CERM - for instance I thougth CERM was woefully inadequate in Chapter 20 (Meteorology). I supplemented that material with notes and bookmarks for where to find things like unit hydrograph, probabilistic forecasting, etc. in my other references and workbooks. The bookmarks would include key equations, unit conversions (as deemed important), and locations of sample questions/solution types.

Okay - the point will be that once you commit to putting in between 250 - 300 hrs of review time in, you will be in your zone. By virtue of investing that much time, you will be there.

_Would it be more effective to commit to working a certain number of problems rather than working for a certain number of hours?_

I recommend setting up study 'sessions' in 3-hr blocks. This allows enough time for you to engage your problems but not dwell on them. Moreover, the human mind after three hours begins to suffer from serious retention drop-off. If you are going to make the effort to learn, might as well do it under optimal conditions.

_Has anyone used review materials or programs from MGI or NSPE or NCEES? _

I knew some people who did the MGI thing - those problems seemed to be more difficult or in depth than what you might encounter on the exam. I think a key thing to keep in mind as your are preparing - spend some of your time just setting up problems but not solving and some time going through the mechanics of solving - especially unit conversions. If you spend you time solely solving problems, you are going to be somewhat at a loss for time for getting to everything you want to cover.

And for some perspective - approximately 70% of the material that I hit REALLY hard didn't show up on the exam. So keep that tucked in the back of your mind as you are preparing too.

_Right now, it sounds like the best thing to do is work through the problems in the CERM Practice Problems book for the areas I'm going to be focusing on in depth (WR)._

Good plan. I would also see about picking up a copy of the Six-Minute Solutions - at least for WR. I would also make sure you have a few good background books - I liked Gupta's Hydraulics and Hydrologic systems. Nice mix of theory and application - lots of well explained examples.

_Also, according to the NCEES website, the breakdown for the WR questions was written in 2000. If the breakdown hasn't changed, is there any good reason to run out and buy a new Lindeburg book? I've got the 7th edition / 1999 CERM and Practice Problems. Does anyone know exactly what changes between these editions?_

The primary difference is based on the changes in codes for structural and transportation. These differences are located in a few chapters, but I don't have my CERM here with me, so I can't enumerate them. I will edit the post to include those chapters once I get a hold of my CERM.

Older version of CERM works fine. I used CERM 8th Edition and passed in Oct 2006.

Regards,

JR


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## Tina (Jan 22, 2007)

@jregieng,

that's excellent advice. Thanks !

I'll be taking the structural depth exam and plan on taking so many specs and references with me. I was wondering how I could actually be able to use all those books. So setting up a binder that kinda ties everything together seems like a great idea.

Tina


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## tmckeon_PE (Jan 23, 2007)

I think that "trimming down" when going to the actual exam is a good idea. You need to know where to find things quickly and you don't need to be having to juggle a lot of books.

Making a "cheat sheet", so to speak, helps you learn and, also, helps you to see where things are.


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## Road Guy (Jan 23, 2007)

one thing that helped me study was I had a spiral notebook and made my owl little "study reference guide" with a table of contents, and everything....

basically when I came across a "good" formula I would put it in eithe the ENV, TRA, etc section.

Often when you work through the CERM examples and 6 minute solutions, they pull some random formula to solve the problem thats not in the CERM, so I would write those down.

I also had some basic retaining wall formulas and other things I figured there was a good chance that would be on the test that I could flip to easily.


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## bigray76 (Feb 1, 2007)

My strategy so far has been:

1) Study each topic that I will encounter in the morning and afternoon

2) Take notes on each topic and put in a discipline specific binder with various tabs and sections (putting my company issued laptop and supply closet to good use)

3) As I work problems that relate to each, I add notes to the applicable section as to how to solve that type of problem

Right now I have 6 notebooks - Env., Trans, Water, Struct, Geotech, and Other.

For example, my Env book has 5 tabs - Wastewater, Biology, Solid/Haz Waste, Ground Water &amp; Well fields, Misc.

If I run across a question regarding Aquifers, I add the type of problem and step/rational to solve that problem below my notes on that section. (Under my Ground Water &amp; Well fields section, there are groundwater flow and aquifers)

My 'Other' book includes Eng. Econ., conversions, the CERM index, etc.

As I get closer to the test, I may consolidate the morning only topics (ENV and Struct) to one notebook since I am taking the Transportation PM. I may also get a big binder for the three afternoon topics and the other book to limit how many books I am shuffling during the exam.

Ray


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2007)

bigray76 --

Excellent strategy !! :appl:

I would suggest keeping your subject notebook separate. I tried to consolidate transp/structural into one notebook and it just became too bulky.

Think of it this way - when you are flipping through your notebook like a .. well .. test-taker, you want the pages to easily, seemless fold over. You don't want an overstuffed, bloated book that loses its' functionality.

Overstuffed only works for burritos -- and even then Taco Bell isn't good for you. Except I ate there last night (I was working late and rushed) and now I am paying for it this morning. 



:appl:

JR


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 1, 2007)

> Overstuffed only works for burritos -- and even then Taco Bell isn't good for you. Except I ate there last night (I was working late and rushed) and now I am paying for it this morning.


Don't you know eating at Taco Bell only worsens the great Mexican taco crisis? :appl:


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## traffic (Feb 1, 2007)

Government Engineer said:


> OK, let me fire off some more questions to seek some more opinions. It seems like people on these boards enjoy sharing their opinions, so I won't hold back on my questions...
> For various reasons, I didn't get a packet submitted in time to take the April exam here in NC. My plan is to submit one in the next month or two in hopes to sit for the October exam. However, I've probably got more time to study now than I will in the months leading up to the October exam. Has anyone tried a long-term study strategy, perhaps putting in fewer hours per week but still trying to hit a cumulative in the zone?
> 
> Based on my reading of the board, the zone seems to be 200 to 300 hours of study. I know one size doesn't fit all, but I've got to start somewhere with my strategy. Right now, I'm thinking of trying to come up with some kind of schedule with hours of study matched up to the topics on the exam. That way I can work along based on the time I have available. Any comments on this? Has someone already done this?
> ...


I'm in NC and would recommend you signing up for the ITRE PE Review course at NC State. It is 22 weeks long on either all day fridays and saturdays every other weekend or every week one night each week. This course was very helpful in helping me prepare and study. The material is up to date and for the most part the instructors are 1st class. :multiplespotting:


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## DVINNY (Feb 3, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> Don't you know eating at Taco Bell only worsens the great Mexican taco crisis? :Locolaugh:


There is a crisis? Please explain.

I don't want anyone messing with my tacos. (I don't go to Taco Bell, we've got too many authentic restaurants here)


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## bigray76 (Feb 3, 2007)

jregieng said:


> bigray76 --
> Excellent strategy !! :whipping:
> 
> I would suggest keeping your subject notebook separate. I tried to consolidate transp/structural into one notebook and it just became too bulky.
> ...



D-Ring binders are good for multiple things (great supply closet here at work). The other thing I have done is get some post-it tabs and use one color per discipline - anytime I see red I know it is environmental, blue is structural, etc.

There is a problem with being overstuffed? heck, I am working on a Saturday and brought a sandwich and a 12-pack to work to get this project cranked out... and I will do the same on Sunday!

-Ray


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## fingerscrossed (Feb 6, 2007)

caneriver said:


> I went thru "the other board"'s passing zone before the Oct 06 PE exam WR depth. I did pass the exam, but not sure if it was due to the passing zone . . . or just a really good nights sleep the night before. The passing zone helped me stay organized and on a strict study schedule. Each week they give you about 5 problems to solve and if you need help, one of their experts (typically a college prof) is available to help you with any problem/concept pertaining to the specific subject for that week. But after that week is up, they move on to something else. The problems are good. It would be great for someone not good at staying on a schedule or needing some tutoring. On a couple of their problems I didn't have the suggested reference mat'ls (like Metcaff/Edy or geotech stuff) and the "teacher" of the week personally emailed me a pdf copy of charts and formulas. Like I said before, I can't say I passed because I went thru the passing zone, but it did give me a little boost. Seriously I don't see why this board can't do the same thing.


I would love to see some ideas on how to prepare for the April exam. I am on my third time taking the exam and obviously need some new ideas on how to study!! Any pointers on a timeline/study schedule would be great. I am doing WR in the afternoon and have the CERM and Six minutes problems to study. Any thoughts on how to get this thing done&gt;


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2007)

fingerscrossed said:


> I would love to see some ideas on how to prepare for the April exam. I am on my third time taking the exam and obviously need some new ideas on how to study!! Any pointers on a timeline/study schedule would be great. I am doing WR in the afternoon and have the CERM and Six minutes problems to study. Any thoughts on how to get this thing done&gt;


I have to take care of some 'serious' business today, but I promise to get back to you. Stay tuned in.

I would also scroll through some of the other exam tips threads in the PE Exam Prep main forum. It will take some digging, but there is some good stuff there.

JR


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## civilsid (Mar 30, 2007)

As my test prep. has morphed its way along, this is what I have done. I bought several extra books beyond CERM v9 and will probably take whatever I can carry but I know that I will likely only use 2 or 3. But I figure better to have them and not need them than the other way around. I have tabbed out my CERM but not always by chapter- more by important topic. For example, it is more meaningful to me to have a tab directly to "Moody Diagram" than it is to have one to the first page of chapter 17. Many chapters don't have tabs because they are less likely to be needed quickly and easily. I've also color coordinated them, sort of like BlueStake- WR is blue tabs, wastewater is green...

Every time I get something wrong or screw up units, etc. I make a note to myself at the location of the appropriate equation in CERM. Any additional information from other sources I put at either the beginning or end of the most appropriate chapter. Sometimes I write references to other resources. I know that there are some transpo top[ics where I just wrote "See HCM Pg. XX" so over the months my books cross reference easily. Also, I have notes that refer me to other parts of CERM. For example on Table 19-2, I have three notes. by Hydraulic Radius, I wrote "defined pg. 16-6", by the circle section, I wrote "See Appendix 16A". I also wrote in slopes and angles "1:1 = 45 deg, 1:2 = 26.6 deg, 1:3 = 18.4 deg". I am hoping that stuff like this will make me faster. I definitely don't want to get hung up trying to figure out the depth of a partially filled sewer line when I could look it up in the appendix very quickly.

My 3-ring binder is growing still. I have most of the CERM appendices copied plus some extra stuff that should be in the CERM Appendix like Table 35.7 Soil INdexing Formulas. I have also included the Civil and Environmental sections of the FE study manual. Of course, I have the CERM index so I won't be flipping back and forth all the time to and from the index. I also copied the HCM index since it is also a huge book. After that I have a fairly lengthy water resource dictionary that I think is a bit overboard but quite good if we run into goofy definition problems like "isobath", "oligosaline", or "profundal zone".

Go here for your own copy: http://www.battle-creek.net/glossarys.html

After that I have, 10 state standards

After that I have some excerpts from UBC Vol. 2

I have pounded away pretty good at WR, geo, and env. since I am taking WR in the PM. Structural I have studied honestly very little and hope I can get by with some free body diagram questions. I did not get any structural books because they are so expensive. Transpo. I reviewed and thought was pretty easy if you know a thing or two about surveying and you remember your physics- kinetics &amp; kinematics. Other than that, I did get the HCM in case there was an easy lookup problem or two. I would hate to run into a "Which intersection would you pick based on the flow data" and not be able to look in the right table.

My biggest surprise was doing 6 minute solutions. First, I never did work in metric units before so that confused me because the equations are not the same. Is that v squared over 2 or v squared over 2*g? I guess I needed to do some metric questions so I won't feel terribly confused if I see some in the test.

Also, I have on occasion "reverse engineered" a problem from the four solutions. For example, if the question asks for something in inches and I have no clue, I am going to look for two choices that are off by a factor of 12 because you know there is always the "best wrong answer" for the poor bastard that did everything right but didn't convert from feet to inches. This should at least make it a 50/50 guess instead of one in four. All is fair in love and war.

I also spent some dedicated time actually looking at all of the CERM Appendices because I think they will be the biggest time savers. I don't know how much studying you have done but after two or three questions where you spend a lot of time figuring out some formula, and then the solution says to look it up in the Appendix, I made it a priority to know them all.

I know this is tremendously long winded but I am burned out on studying right now and I am just rambling away and wondering how much freaking time I have into all of this. It is amazing.

:Locolaugh: Hail to the Banana Lama!


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## civilsid (Mar 30, 2007)

PhillyEngr said:


> Has anyone tried the ppi2pass Passing Zone? Is it worth spending the $200?



By the way, I asked around (through various posts) to see if anybody wanted to study together- even through email or phone and I got no response. I think that is all the "the other board" Passing Zone is- an online study resource with instructors. We could do that with each other for free but I never got any interest. And now I am burned out. It sucks not having anybody to talk to. I work from home so I don't have co-workers to commiserate with, study with, or whatever.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

I'll commiserate with ya Civilsid ... :Locolaugh:

One of the ideas of this board is to provide exactly that which you are looking for (bad grammar, I know). All of us yearn for that sort of support network when going through this process. It is very nerve wracking !!!

However, as all things go, it takes time to build. I have spoke with moderators about putting something together, but alas we too have found ourselves in flux. The best that can be offered at this time is a place to hang your hat and offers to help with problems as they are posted, which IMHO is far better than the offer at :"the other board":

You might think about taking one weekend off before driving it home if you truly find yourself that stressed. It isn't worth entering the exam with so much anxiety that you aren't able to bring your A-game.

Wish you the best .. keep posting questions as they come up.

JR


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## civilsid (Mar 30, 2007)

Yeah-

I'm going up to Vegas this weekend to do just that. I'm not going to improve much from where I am today. I will keep hitting Exam Cafe NQ questions and sporadic 6 minute solutions between now and then and that will be it. Maybe I'll go fly a couple hours between now and then too.


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## Tina (Apr 17, 2007)

PPI2Pass Passing Zone is winding down and I'm very disappointed. I feel it was a waste of money.

At first we were not allowed to ask questions about any topic which is not on the schedule for the current week. So if you lag behind a little bit you're out of luck. And now that it's the last week and we can ask any question one of the instructors is travelling and doesn't have all his references with him. :brickwall: How frustrating !!!!

I can't wait for the survey email they send out after each Passing Zone.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2007)

Tina --

Major bummer !! :brickwall:

A good exam + passing score in June should go a long way to helping you feel better lusone: Good luck !!

JR


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