# OCT 2018 - Vertical



## Hindianapolis (Oct 27, 2018)

Anyone took this this year and felt they messed up?

i honestly felt it was brutal...


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## TheBigGuy (Oct 28, 2018)

I felt like I nailed every part of that exam except the wood problem.  Made a lot of mistakes, then lost my composure and made a lot more.  Hopefully I showed enough knowledge to get a needs improvement.


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## leggo PE (Oct 29, 2018)

Everyone, please refrain from posting specific information about test questions. Remember the non-disclosure agreement you signed with NCEES before you took the exam, and please really take it to heart.

NCEES watches these boards and will take action against anyone breaking this agreement.


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## User1 (Oct 29, 2018)

Hindianapolis said:


> Anyone took this this year and felt they messed up?
> 
> i honestly felt it was brutal...


are you glad you split them up to take one day at a time?


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## Hindianapolis (Oct 29, 2018)

tj_PE said:


> are you glad you split them up to take one day at a time?


I wish I did, i took both modules and deeply regret it. Next April, I will do just one .


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## User1 (Oct 29, 2018)

Hindianapolis said:


> I wish I did, i took both modules and deeply regret it. Next April, I will do just one .


unless you pass both! I'm taking one at a time starting in april.


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## cal91 (Oct 30, 2018)

I'm going to be taking both in April. Hoping it i'll be a one and done situation.

Hindianapolis, did you just feel burnt out on Saturday or why do you regret taking both modules?


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## Hindianapolis (Oct 31, 2018)

cal91 said:


> I'm going to be taking both in April. Hoping it i'll be a one and done situation.
> 
> Hindianapolis, did you just feel burnt out on Saturday or why do you regret taking both modules?


no, actually my Saturday morning run was not a bad one. 

I said this because I think this exam requires you to think in two different ways per say: "Vertical thinking"; and "Lateral thinking". I felt that under the pressure of the exam these two thinking strategies gets mixed up in your head. By "Lateral thinking", I mean applicable seismic load combinations; applicable loads; anticipated behaviors; etc. 

By taking one module at a time, at least in the preparations, you are focusing on one strategy. I think this multiplies your chances of passing the module.

I don't know about your experience and what your daily job requirements entail, but if you are not doing lateral design as part of your day-to-day job (my case), it is just hard. Next time, this is definitely what I am doing: one module at a time (especially judging from how tough I found the exam to be).

I was also driven by the rush of "hoping to clear both in one sitting". Now that I am once bitten, I feel there is no shame in taking a year to clear this exam.

These were my two cents.


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## Duke (Oct 31, 2018)

@ *Hindianapolis*

I felt "ok" on the vertical afternoon but the morning is what burned me. I hit a wall on too many of the AASHTO questions and a couple others.

@* cal91*

Unless you are a very gifted test taker and got high scores on very difficult tests in the past I would recommend taking them separately. I tried taking both and it didn't work for two reasons.

1) I ended up being spread too thin in my studies trying to make up knowledge gaps in both areas.

2) The last three hours on the second day are very challenging due to burn out.

That being said people do make it in one go, but most of us don't.


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## Hindianapolis (Oct 31, 2018)

Duke said:


> @ *Hindianapolis*
> 
> I felt "ok" on the vertical afternoon but the morning is what burned me. I hit a wall on too many of the AASHTO questions and a couple others.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what happened to me. I wanna say i did pretty good on the vertical afternoon (3 problems 90-95%; and 1 problem about 75-80%).


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## ZEZO4 (Oct 31, 2018)

As roughly, what is the range of A (100% to 90%?), what is the range of IR (90% to 80%?), what is the passing grade for the afternoon? A, A, A &amp;A? A, A, A &amp;IR ...etc.? Is it combined morning and afternoon or separate? Is anyone has idea? 

Thanks.


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## Duke (Oct 31, 2018)

From what I've seen it takes 30/40 morning and A/A/IR/IR in the afternoon to pass. They are combined, failing morning or afternoon fails both.


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## ZEZO4 (Oct 31, 2018)

Duke said:


> From what I've seen it takes 30/40 morning and A/A/IR/IR in the afternoon to pass. They are combined, failing morning or afternoon fails both.


Thank you Duke.


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## Mithrandir918 (Nov 1, 2018)

28/30 AM both tests.

Bridges PM IR/A/A, if you miss 50% question or get IR on this =  no pass.

Buildings PM: A/A/A/IR.

Typically any unacceptable in PM will fail you.


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## cal91 (Nov 1, 2018)

If you pass, they don't tell you what your scores are, correct?


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## Mithrandir918 (Nov 1, 2018)

cal91 said:


> If you pass, they don't tell you what your scores are, correct?


This is correct.


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## ZEZO4 (Nov 1, 2018)

Mithrandir918 said:


> 28/30 AM both tests.
> 
> Bridges PM IR/A/A, if you miss 50% question or get IR on this =  no pass.
> 
> ...


(For the Buildings), Do thing there is possible for the afternoon to be A/A/IR/IR if the morning is +30/40?


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## ZEZO4 (Nov 1, 2018)

cal91 said:


> If you pass, they don't tell you what your scores are, correct?


yes.


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## Mithrandir918 (Nov 1, 2018)

ZEZO4 said:


> (For the Buildings), Do thing there is possible for the afternoon to be A/A/IR/IR if the morning is +30/40?


Of course we can never truly know for sure though I have never seen a failing score reported with these results.

A while back a member posted a very involved break down of scoring results @ TehMightyEngineer  I believe.  Check it out.

I would be surprised if they passed you with acceptable on only 50% of the afternoon though.


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## ZEZO4 (Nov 1, 2018)

Mithrandir918 said:


> Of course we can never truly know for sure though I have never seen a failing score reported with these results.
> 
> A while back a member posted a very involved break down of scoring results @ TehMightyEngineer  I believe.  Check it out.
> 
> I would be surprised if they passed you with acceptable on only 50% of the afternoon though.


Roughly, what is the switch grade between A to IR? is any mistake in the the question kills the question to be A?

Thank you.


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## Mithrandir918 (Nov 1, 2018)

Mithrandir918 said:


> ZEZO4 said:
> 
> 
> > Roughly, what is the switch grade between A to IR? is any mistake in the the question kills the question to be A?
> ...


Its hard to say.  I know I personally have gotten acceptables on on problems I completely botched.  Its subjective, has to do with luck and how well you can write down your methods and thoughts and not necessarily based on just numbers.


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## ZEZO4 (Nov 2, 2018)

Mithrandir918 said:


> Its hard to say.  I know I personally have gotten acceptables on on problems I completely botched.  Its subjective, has to do with luck and how well you can write down your methods and thoughts and not necessarily based on just numbers.


Thank you *Mithrandir918.*


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## TehMightyEngineer (Nov 2, 2018)

Mithrandir918 said:


> Of course we can never truly know for sure though I have never seen a failing score reported with these results.
> 
> A while back a member posted a very involved break down of scoring results @ TehMightyEngineer  I believe.  Check it out.
> 
> I would be surprised if they passed you with acceptable on only 50% of the afternoon though.


Still have what I wrote saved:

[SIZE=12pt]What is the cut score for NCEES on the SE exam? I wish I could tell you but unfortunately NCEES keeps their grading method, criteria, and cut score between pass and fail a secret.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]On the NCEES website, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]under "scoring"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], they state the following:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"When an exam is introduced or when its specifications change, a committee of subject-matter experts works with experienced psychometricians (testing experts with a background in statistics) to determine the level of performance that corresponds with minimal competence in that discipline. This becomes the passing score. NCEES does not publish passing scores because they change with each administration. NCEES scores each exam with no predetermined percentage of examinees that should pass or fail. All exams are scored the same way. First-time takers and repeat takers are graded to the same standard.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]For subsequent administrations of the exam, statistical equating is used to ensure that this level of performance is consistent across multiple administrations of that exam. Essentially, this means that while the numerical passing score may change with each administration, you are not disadvantaged when one administration of a particular exam is more difficult than another. This process accounts for the 8- to 10-week interval between an exam administration and the release of scores to member licensing boards.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Your exam results are determined by the number of items you answered correctly for the exam in its entirety. There are no minimum requirements for particular sections or topics within an exam. You are not penalized for incorrect answers."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Also note this:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"If the reviews confirm an error in a question, credit may be given for more than one answer."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]So, some things are clear:[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]The cut score changes from exam to exam.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There is no grading curve.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The exams are graded so that the cut score reflects a consistent difficulty; easier exams will require a higher score to pass than harder exams.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]You are scored based on your combined performance on both the morning and afternoon of each day.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]However, if you get the very harsh words of "unacceptable" on your exam results you will be given a diagnostic report which will grade your morning problems as number answered correctly, and your afternoon problems as either acceptable, improvement required, or unacceptable. No indication of what "improvement required" or "unacceptable" is given.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The following are my conclusions which are entirely based on interpretation of limited data and my own assumptions. I could be completely incorrect (but would like to think I'm close).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Based on scores people have reported after failing the SE exam I've developed the following conclusions:[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]You need approximately 28-30 correct on the morning from what I can tell.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]If you have a good morning score then you likely need two "acceptable" and two "improvement required" scores for buildings, or two "acceptable" (one of these being the 2 hour problem) and an "improvement required" for bridges.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]If you have a less than 30 morning score then you likely need three "acceptable" and one "improvement required" for buildings, or two "acceptable" (one of these being the 2 hour problem) and an "improvement required" for bridges.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As best I can tell, if you get an unacceptable on any of the afternoon problems then you will not pass. Perhaps if you have a near perfect morning score then you may pass but this would be hard to determine based on limited information.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It has been confirmed that not completing a problem but listing out steps or rough calculations can get you an “acceptable” score for an afternoon problem.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]This is based on 43 vertical and lateral scores that were reported, about 50% buildings and 50% bridges. Most of the reported scores for bridges were on the lateral day while most building scores were from the vertical day. I’m not sure if this would skew the results or not.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The highest scores on the morning that still failed were the following:[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]35/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]33/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]32/40 - Acceptable, Improvement Required, Improvement Required, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]31/40 - Acceptable, Improvement Required, Improvement Required, Improvement Required[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]31/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Improvement Required, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]30/40 - Acceptable, Improvement Required, Improvement Required, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]30/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]30/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The highest scores on the afternoon that still failed were as follows (some of these are duplicates from above in highest morning scores):[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]25/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]20/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable, Improvement Required[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]33/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]27/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]35/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Unacceptable[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]31/40 - Acceptable, Improvement Required, Improvement Required, Improvement Required[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]


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