# Women's Room - come talk



## CivE Bricky (Jul 10, 2009)

Let's start with:

What led to you choosing a field that isn't particularly popular among women?

For me:

Dad was an electrical engineer and both my parents encouraged pretty much any interest. I liked just about every high school class (but foreign language) and all of Dad's countless hobbies and did well in math and science so figured I'd go techy. Choosing a major was a really tough choice that took me years -- I found doing civil const mgmt (for a municipality) lets me dabble in accounting, marketing, business management, journalism, history, psychology, programming, politics, english, etc. along with yes, some engineering....and I like that mix. You?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm glad to see we have enough ladies around here to have their own XX chromosome thread. The women of EB.com rock, and they put up with our antics so that's even better.


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 10, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I'm glad to see we have enough ladies around here to have their own XX chromosome thread. The women of EB.com rock, and they put up with our antics so that's even better.


Now I will be stuck at work for hours...


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## kevo_55 (Jul 10, 2009)

Oh man, not another place I'm not allowed......

:sniff:


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## Dleg (Jul 10, 2009)

Where's the urinals???? Oh carp! I must be in the Women's Room again!!!!


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## Fluvial (Jul 10, 2009)

Watch out VT. I'm gonna send Fabio after you:


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## maryannette (Jul 10, 2009)

HMMMMMM.


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## maryannette (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm going to ignore VT's attempt to interrupt our conversation.

I graduated high school in 1975. I loved math and had taken computer programming classes in high school. My guidance counselor told me that if I was a boy, I would be encouraged to go into engineering, but since I was a girl, they didn't recommend that. I started college in Computer Science. After a year, I changed majors. Over 30 years later, it still feels like a good decision.


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## SparksFlyingPE (Jul 10, 2009)

Why thank you, lovely gentlemen, for all of your input here 

Let's see....how did I end up in the electrical engineering world...

As a young kid, I loved taking stuff apart to see how it worked. Ruined many appliances because I wasn't so good at re-assembling. Luckily my dad is very patient! He was a band director and had the keys to everything at school, and i'd beg him to open up the mechanical rooms so I could marvel at all the boilers and chillers and stuff. I was so curious about all the big noisy machinery. Weird, I know. But, I loved my Barbies and sewing and girly stuff, so had some balance.

Fast forward - loved drafting in high school, wanted to be an architect. Did 2 years at UW as an architecture major, then realized I'm no good at designing pretty buildings and got a tech school CAD degree instead. Worked as an AutoCAD chick for an MEP consuting firm, mostly doing electrical drafting. I started to ask questions about how it all worked, so one of the old EE's took me under his wing and gradually taught me to design electrical power distribution stuff.

It spurred me to finish my university degree (changed major to BSEE!) and kept working and learning electrical power stuff. Now, I'm 1 yr from finishing my BSEE (part-time school, it's taking forever), have been working in the electrical power industry for 12 years and I love it. I'm sitting for the electrical PE exam in October (in CA, you can sit for PE if you have your EIT + 8 yrs experience).

So that's it. Who's next, ladies? I love this topic! (Guys, I'd totally post a picture of my boobs for you but my digital cam has dead batteries. And I'd get kicked off of engboards.com Terribly sorry  )


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## Katiebug (Jul 10, 2009)

Well, I always enjoyed science and math in school. When I was about 14 I decided that I really, really wanted to make the military my career. Specifically, I wanted to go to the Naval Academy and then I would enjoy a long and fruitful career as a naval officer. I was a Sea Cadet throughout my teen years and on one of my summer training weeks I went to Annapolis for a week. There, I got to shadow some midshipmen in the Naval Architecture/Marine Engineering department and it was tons of fun to see what they were learning about (really, to build models and test them in the big water tank). I decided that majoring in that subject would be apropos for someone who planned to make a career out of the Navy. Most of high school was geared towards getting into a federal service academy. I was accepted to the Naval Academy and Coast Guard Academy early in my senior year. I got the required nomination for Annapolis from my congressman. I passed the physical fitness tests and the medical exam. Unfortunately USCGA was a no-go due to one eye being slightly outside the limits when they did the vision test, and they didn't give waivers at all. USNA was fine and gave me a waiver, no problem. So for most of my senior year, I was 100% expecting to go to Annapolis shortly after graduation. Then in early May all hell broke loose when that year's graduating class of midshipmen had an unusually large number of graduates who could not be commissioned in the Navy (read: had gotten a free education with no resulting service commitment) because they had come in on vision waivers and their eyesight had worsened significantly in that time. The decision was made by the academy to revoke all of the vision waivers in that category for the incoming class - including mine. So less than 2 months before I was to report for I-Day, I was told that I wasn't going to be part of that class. As one might expect, I was heartbroken. Not only did I not achieve my goal, but I had no idea how I could study naval architecture and marine engineering since it's such a specialized field. The academy strongly encouraged me to go to a college with NROTC or to go to school and then go to OCS (the vision waiver wouldn't have been an issue in either case). The admissions department even told me to go to another university and re-apply for USNA for the next year, once the vision flap blew over. My vision was never bad enough that I couldn't have gone into the military, it just wasn't OK for Annapolis that one year.

Thankfully my parents had insisted I apply to UConn just in case. I had never even gone on a college visit, because we had all expected me to go to the Naval Academy. I found myself in May of my senior year suddenly having my plans and dreams turned on end. I went up to UConn and visited with the undergraduate dean (the only non-PhD professor in the school of engineering) who was a retired Navy nuclear officer. He suggested mechanical engineering (his department) because it would allow me to study fluid mechanics and propulsion. He even helped me line up some scholarships from the ME department, and I figured it'd be an OK way to spend some time. So I became a mechanical engineering major very much by chance.

I graduated from UConn 4 years later with a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. By the time I was a few months into a my freshman year, thoughts of applying for the next year at USNA were completely off the table. I ended up absolutely loving UConn and I truly believe I wound up in the right place for me. When I actually had to take classes in fluids, I did OK in them but didn't enjoy it as much as I'd expected - no career in naval architecture for me! And when I graduated I went to work in the elevator industry rather than take the Navy up on their very kind offer to commission me and send me to nuclear power school. By then Mr. Bug and I were talking about marriage and I just wasn't up for that sort of life anymore.

Ironically I wound up in classes at UConn with two guys from Connecticut who also would have been in my class at Annapolis and also got fouled up by the vision waiver mess. Both were engineering majors (one civil, one mechanical) and both lived in the very small 80-person engineering dorm with me. Both are still my friends today! All three of us were pretty devastated but all three of us ended up believing that life ended up the way it was supposed to end up. Both of the guys met their eventual wives at UConn and if I had gone to Annapolis I _never_ would have reconnected with the high school friend who later became my husband. Things really do happen for a reason, I think.

So I fell into mechanical engineering almost by accident, and ended up loving it.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 10, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> Watch out VT. I'm gonna send Fabio after you:


That picture must have been taken before he tried to beat a bird to death with his face.



SparksFlying said:


> (Guys, I'd totally post a picture of my boobs for you but my digital cam has dead batteries. And I'd get kicked off of engboards.com Terribly sorry  )


:GotPics:


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## maryannette (Jul 10, 2009)

Katiebug's story reminds me that things really do happen for a reason. I left college after 3 years, intending to go back, but never did. I have been asked a LOT of times if I regret not finishing. I always say that my life turned out good and I don't regret any decisions. I ended up working in engineering and after the required experience period got my PE. Life works out.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 11, 2009)

I see this thread is now hazed into the board....

Kevo - you're allowed (you'd be lurking anyway....)

Dleg - I haven't been around long, but early indications are that you're a good engineer--improvise!

Fluvial gets the "I understand women" award of the hour....

Now...on with the target audience

Hi Mary, Sparks, Katie --

This is already interesting--seeing some themes develop. I wrote about high school -- I should continue.

I considered West Point - tested very well and got the congressional recommendation, but ultimately didn't apply - couldn't quite imagine committing the next 10 years of my life in one fell swoop. (And good thing I didn't)

I applied to 6 colleges out of high school and to my astonishment got into all of them - because 3-4 of them often appear on top ten lists for US engineering colleges. I went to the one that "Well if they let me in there, I'd be crazy not to go..." (as class of '83) I was probably smart enough to be middle of the pack there - but I didn't have the personal and study skills to thrive. I also stumbled around not sure what I wanted to do and had a new major every semester (often while exploring another on the side).

It became obvious that that college and were a mismatch and I had some things to sort out....I tried an semi-arty semester as a visiting student at another college, and enjoyed it but learned I still wanted the technical bent. Eventually I decided the thing to do was transfer, and finish my sorting out at a less expensive place and decided to get a Community College degree just to clean up my disorganized group of credits to date. While I did that, I lived at home and worked full-time for an engineer/surveyor--and liked it. I graduated and transferred to a different one of my original choice colleges...now as class of '88 as a mech e. It still wasn't right (but I got to meet Mr. Bricky) and I got a summer job where I work now....that turned into a permanent job.....skipping ahead....

I had my employer pay for most of the remainder of my degree at a rate of a class or two a year - now firmly civil - while working full time. I got married, had my first child, graduated in 98, then had my second child all spaced about 2 years apart. I literally didn't have the weekend or two to study for the FE when I was a student and working....I knew I'd regret it, but didn't see another option. (If I hadn't had so many stale classes at that point, I might have winged it.)

Mr. Bricky did the startup thing and took a turn with the lead for a while...which was fine with me. I got back to it with a year long FE review class and the FE exam in April 07 - (passed 1st time!) and then took until Oct 07 to write up my PE application and took the PE in April 08 and Oct 08 with minimal studying (prioritized family over studying) and came close to passing, but didn't pull it off. I regrouped a bit and now I've got my fingers crossed that this credential will be mine after the weekend and serve as the ticket to a new chapter...


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## Fluvial (Jul 11, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> Fluvial gets the "I understand women" award of the hour....


There's good reason for that. 

My dad was a Civil Engineering professor at University of MS. He taught there for 25 years. I was the third of five kids, and the only one to end up in engineering. When I was in HS we took a version of the ASVAB, and my results showed that I had a good aptitude for physics. I decided then to major in Civil.

When I first started university, I was still young (17) so I didn't do very well. I ended up dropping out for a couple of years and then returning. I eventually got a BSCE in May of 1987. During that time I had gotten married and my first child was born in 1985. Since my husband and I wanted a second child, I enrolled in graduate school and recieved my Masters in December of 1988. I started that last semester of graduate school with a six-week-old baby and a 2-year old toddler. I don't remember much of anything that fall. Heh.

Anyway I started my career with a large firm here in Jackson MS in the spring of '89. I have been in the hydrology and hydraulics field from day one, and I love it. I worked there for almost 9 years, came up here (suburbs) to work for our City for four years, then struck out on my own in 2000 and I'm still swimming nine years later.

It's more and more common to see ladies in the field of engineering, and I'm thrilled to see that. I have had a couple of "firsts" under my belt (first president of the MS section of ASCE for example) and I'm proud to have had the opportunity to pave the way for other ladies.

I'm enjoying reading everyone else's stories too.


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## Fluvial (Jul 11, 2009)

kevo_55 said:


> Oh man, not another place I'm not allowed......


dude, the title says "men allowed".


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## csb (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that girls of my generation really were encouraged to be anything they wanted to be. In the mix of my Barbies, I also had Legos and science kits and all kinds of things.

I was often in honors classes and I thought it was super cool to be smart. When I went to college, I wanted to be a scientist and was a geology major. However, I had a ton of friends in engineering and dated an EE. I think I felt like it was the biggest challenge of my life to conquer engineering...so I switched.

It was the hardest thing and I think my GPA reflects it, but I'm glad I made it through and I'm proud to be an engineer.


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## Ble_PE (Jul 11, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I'm glad to see we have enough ladies around here to have their own XX chromosome thread. The women of EB.com rock, and they put up with our antics so that's even better.


Dang VT, I'm glad the wife was in the shower when I opened this topic!



wilheldp_PE said:


> :GotPics:


Via PM is ok too  .


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 11, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> There's good reason for that.
> It's more and more common to see ladies in the field of engineering, and I'm thrilled to see that. I have had a couple of "firsts" under my belt (first president of the MS section of ASCE for example) and I'm proud to have had the opportunity to pave the way for other ladies.


Oopsssss sorry Fluvial - that's exactly why I started this thread.

ANNOUNCEMENT:*[SIZE=10pt] the first "I understand women" award of the hour is still available.[/SIZE]*

I was president of my local chapter of ASCE a few years back - about to take office as president again....I'd love to do it as PE


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 11, 2009)

> So that's it. Who's next, ladies? I love this topic! (Guys, I'd totally post a picture of my boobs for you but my digital cam has dead batteries. And I'd get kicked off of engboards.com Terribly sorry tongue.gif )


What?!? This isn't PPI. We'd make you a mod on the spot.


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## benbo (Jul 11, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> There's good reason for that.  Since my husband and I wanted a second child, I enrolled in graduate school


Hmm. I would have thought you had the requisite education to produce a second child after the first one was conceived.

Sorry, don't kick me out of the ladies room. That just sounded funny to me.

Plus it does show that I am reading carefully.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 11, 2009)

benbo said:


> Hmm. I would have thought you had the requisite education to produce a second child after the first one was conceived.
> Sorry, don't kick me out of the ladies room. That just sounded funny to me.
> 
> Plus it does show that I am reading carefully.


:Locolaugh:

benbo wins the "I understand women award" of the hour --especially for the reading carefully part...(assuming benbo is male - I already made that mistake once).


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 11, 2009)

And benbo's profile indicates male, so I think we have our first winner! :w00t:


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## snickerd3 (Jul 11, 2009)

I always loved math and chemistry, but I didn't want to teach. My Aunt whose son was in school for nuclear engineering said I should think about engineering. I picked to try chemical engineering, although if I had decided to go to the other school I was accepted at (a 100% coop, could have been working my very first semester of college) i would have had to pick a different engineering major bc they didn't offer chemical and I would have never met my husband.


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## Fluvial (Jul 11, 2009)

benbo said:


> Hmm. I would have thought you had the requisite education to produce a second child after the first one was conceived.


Ha! You're right that does sound funny.

What I meant was, he didn't want to move and then have another baby; there were no CE engineering openings in the area at the time; so I went to grad school so as to stay put another 18 months. Ironically we split up in 1990, after moving to Jackson in 1989. He went back home and I've been here ever since.


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## tymr (Jul 11, 2009)

When I was 4 years old, I walked inside the house and asked my mom, "Why do the boys get to play with the good toys and us girls have to play with dolls?" Fast forward +/- 30 years and not much has changed.


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## maryannette (Jul 11, 2009)

tymr said:


> When I was 4 years old, I walked inside the house and asked my mom, "Why do the boys get to play with the good toys and us girls have to play with dolls?" Fast forward +/- 30 years and not much has changed.


Wow! It was like that for me, too. I have 4 brothers and 3 sisters. I was not allowed to run the electric model train - only the boys could. I didn't understand why. I now have my own electric train set - G scale. It takes a long time for attitudes to change. Be patient. It IS getting better.


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## maryannette (Jul 11, 2009)

My daughter is enrolled at N. C. State Univ. in Engineering. She starts in August. She hasn't decided discipline; talking about electrical or mechanical. It will be so interesting to see her 34 years after I was there and how different it is now.


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## Fluvial (Jul 11, 2009)

I have a question - are any of us members of Society of Women Engineers (SWE)? Some friends of mine started having a monthly lunch and, little by little, most all of my female engineer colleagues have been invited. We are kicking around the idea of joining SWE and having a little Jackson group.


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## maryannette (Jul 11, 2009)

I would have to travel a long distance to go to any professional organization meetings. I did it a long time ago - NSPE.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 12, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> I have a question - are any of us members of Society of Women Engineers (SWE)? Some friends of mine started having a monthly lunch and, little by little, most all of my female engineer colleagues have been invited. We are kicking around the idea of joining SWE and having a little Jackson group.


I was in school, but not now.


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## maryannette (Jul 12, 2009)

It would be really cool if we could start an EB.com chapter of SWE. Where would we meet?


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## Fluvial (Jul 12, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> It would be really cool if we could start an EB.com chapter of SWE. Where would we meet?


At VTE's house?


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> I have a question - are any of us members of Society of Women Engineers (SWE)? Some friends of mine started having a monthly lunch and, little by little, most all of my female engineer colleagues have been invited. We are kicking around the idea of joining SWE and having a little Jackson group.


My company has a similar iniative afoot for women engineers - everyone is welcome, but the focus is getting more women interested or engaged in engineering. I haven't been to many of the meetings but my understanding is the most difficult part is getting the word out and then organizing activities that make the organization different than, say NSPE or ASCE.

I think it is a GOOD idea to get professionals together regardless of why you are organizing - sharing is a huge part of developing professionally, IMHO. 



Fluvial said:


> At VTE's house?


You are asking to get the female engineer most likely to get boo'd award, aren't you??!! 

One of my previous supervisors said my nickname was troublemaker, because if there was trouble to be had, I would be there stirring the pot. I can see you are the same way ....

JR


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## Fluvial (Jul 12, 2009)

jregieng said:


> I can see you are the same way ....


Haha, yeah.

I guarantee you it would be one meeting that he would never forget. B)


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 12, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> At VTE's house?


We've got bundt cake!


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## Road Guy (Jul 12, 2009)

Great thread idea!


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## Supe (Jul 13, 2009)

I am very much a male, but actually received a small college scholarship for my freshman year from the SWE :true:


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> When I was in HS we took a version of the ASVAB, and my results showed that I had a good aptitude for physics.


I took that test and did so well that Navy Nuclear Power called me every freaking week for six months and then once a month for the next year trying to get me to go NROTC and then Nuke school. I went to college with a bunch of ex-nuke bubbleheads who told me they were really desperate during the timne (this was 84-85) to get nuke power officers. Some guy said if I'd take the nuke test, he'd get a thousand dollar 'finder's fee' even though he was now out.



Mary :) said:


> I was not allowed to run the electric model train - only the boys could. I didn't understand why. I now have my own electric train set - G scale.


Now THAT story rocks.


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## maryannette (Jul 13, 2009)

It DOES rock. I also now own the antique table that was in my grandparents house that the "men" sat at. When my brothers and male cousins got old enough, they got to move from the big kitchen table that was for women and children into the dining room at the nice table. I once asked when I would be able to sit at that table and my mom and aunts told me I wouldn't. HA! I do now.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

Way to go, mary!!!

:thumbs:


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2009)

Awesomeness Mary!!! :w00t:

I have expressed it before but think it is worth re-emphasizing .. I think women typically DO have to work harder to estabish the same level of credibility for one reason or another when it comes to the working world; success is its' own reward. 

JR


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## TouchDown (Jul 13, 2009)

We had the same stupid stereotypes when I was growing up. All the men would go into the livingroom and BS, while the women stayed in the kitchen and chatted around the kitchen table.

Funny thing, I always hung out in the kitchen, much better food.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 13, 2009)

I don't really have any extended relatives anymore other than my in-laws. When the universe aligns and my folks are there with my in-laws and sis-in-law, it's kind of a free for all. No real clicks form.

A lot of it depends on who is hosting the gathering. Which, now that I think about it, has always been me as neither parents have ever been to the other's house. I tend to hang out with whoever is lurking around the kitchen, as I am generally the one making dinner, doing dishes, fixing drinks, etc.

If it's just me at the in-laws, I tend to hang out with my FIL and watch sports and the wife goes and helps her mom out.

I don't even really remember get togethers as a kid at this point. They were few and far between and rarely memorable.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

growing up, when it was the whole extended family (aunts/uncles, great aunts/uncles, cousins, grandparents etc..) the old men were usually outside or in the basement smoking and drinking while they played pinnacle or cannasta. everyone else was where ever there was room. My sister and I were usually the bartenders for the card games, we would usually make 25/50 cents a run.


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## csb (Jul 13, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> We've got bundt cake!


I can only guess what this is homage to...


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

anytime i hear bundt cake I think of the scene in my big fat greek wedding where his parents bring a bundt cake to the party at her parents house and her mom and aunt are trying to figure out what a bundt cake was...they later brought it back out with a mini potted flower in the center since it was missing the center of the cake.


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## Ble_PE (Jul 13, 2009)

snickerd3 said:


> anytime i hear bundt cake I think of the scene in my big fat greek wedding where his parents bring a bundt cake to the party at her parents house and her mom and aunt are trying to figure out what a bundt cake was...they later brought it back out with a mini potted flower in the center since it was missing the center of the cake.


That is exactly what I thought of when I read this.

Off topic: This is probably my wife's favorite movie and she has already told me to be sure to take it to the hospital when she is in labor so she can watch it.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 13, 2009)

I've never seen that movie. I was just trying to suggest a reason for hosting the meeting.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

ble31980 said:


> That is exactly what I thought of when I read this.
> Off topic: This is probably my wife's favorite movie and she has already told me to be sure to take it to the hospital when she is in labor so she can watch it.


The wedding scene at the church where the grooms side is near empty and the brides side was full is basically what happened at my wedding.


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## Fluvial (Jul 13, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> We had the same stupid stereotypes when I was growing up.


My parents' parties were not like that at all. My mom was a big women's 'libber' (as they used to call them); the ladies and the men all congregated together and talked about everything under the sun. When I was small I used to sneak in there and listen to the conversations. They had many friends who were also professors, so a lot of the subject material went right over my head ... also more than a few from other countries, so lots of exotic-sounding accents.

One exception was when my Daddy was working at NASA in Huntsville during the summers. He and the other engineers would hang around outside and drink beer sometimes. I wonder now what cool things they were talking about (this was the era of the first Apollo missions).


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> My parents' parties were not like that at all. My mom was a big women's 'libber' (as they used to call them); the ladies and the men all congregated together and talked about everything under the sun. When I was small I used to sneak in there and listen to the conversations. They had many friends who were also professors, so a lot of the subject material went right over my head ... also more than a few from other countries, so lots of exotic-sounding accents.


My dad's side of the family was more like that. My grandma (post-widow period) and her sisters were very big women libers. My grandma's sister who is a nun still gets arrested at protest rallys. They all think nothing of just jumping on the train/plane with just their toothbrush and change of clothes in their purse and going to whereever the mood strikes them


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## Katiebug (Jul 13, 2009)

csb said:


> I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that girls of my generation really were encouraged to be anything they wanted to be. In the mix of my Barbies, I also had Legos and science kits and all kinds of things.


Me, too. I was a Lego junkie as a kid...I had several Rubbermaid totes packed full of Legos. I had an erector set, too. My parents raised me with the belief that I could - and would - be whatever I wanted to be when I grew up.

When I was a little girl, I wanted more than anything to be an astronaut. I hope that commercial space travel is an option before I'm too old to try it...I would love to go into space, even just once in my life. I considered going to NASA after college, but even if I could get selected as an astronaut, I'd exhaust much of my 30s in getting trained and trying to get into a flight rotation. I'd much rather become a mom, to be honest. I'll never be an astronaut, but I do find my career very fulfilling anyways.



Fluvial said:


> I have a question - are any of us members of Society of Women Engineers (SWE)? Some friends of mine started having a monthly lunch and, little by little, most all of my female engineer colleagues have been invited. We are kicking around the idea of joining SWE and having a little Jackson group.


I am not a member of SWE anymore. I belong to ASME but never attend meetings; it seems very much like an old boys' club (literal on both the "old" and the "boys" aspects). I joined SWE for a while but the meeting schedule always conflicted with my grad school schedule and it just wasn't working out. My employer doesn't pay for professional memberships, and I can only afford one (ASME).


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> One exception was when my Daddy was working at NASA in Huntsville during the summers. He and the other engineers would hang around outside and drink beer sometimes. I wonder now what cool things they were talking about (this was the era of the first Apollo missions).


Ask your dad if he knew Ron Barlow. He worked for NASA at the time under von Braun. He was my supervisor for a while and a great guy, but he passed a few years back.


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## maryannette (Jul 13, 2009)

Katiebug said:


> When I was a little girl, I wanted more than anything to be an astronaut .... I'd much rather become a mom, to be honest. I'll never be an astronaut, but I do find my career very fulfilling anyways.


Katiebug, that is the key. You have to find YOUR fulfillment. What works for some does not work for all. There is no such thing as "having it all". You just have to choose the balance that you want to have.


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## Fluvial (Jul 13, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Ask your dad if he knew Ron Barlow. He worked for NASA at the time under von Braun. He was my supervisor for a while and a great guy, but he passed a few years back.


I will ask him.  These three summers he spent at NASA were 1966, 1967, and 1968. That would have been during von Braun's time there.


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## Supe (Jul 13, 2009)

Kind of funny that you're mentioning this. I was watching October Sky yesterday in my hotel room.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

Supe said:


> Kind of funny that you're mentioning this. I was watching October Sky yesterday in my hotel room.


as long as your weren't watching vanilla sky...


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## csb (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm in the same boat...I don't belong to anything because dues are ridiculous and I can't justify the perceived benefit against the cost. I think eb.com is a much better engineering community and it's free.

And Mary is so right on picking what's best for you. I used to think that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but there is no way I would have been happy doing that I now see.


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## tymr (Jul 13, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> Wow! It was like that for me, too. I have 4 brothers and 3 sisters. I was not allowed to run the electric model train - only the boys could. I didn't understand why. I now have my own electric train set - G scale. It takes a long time for attitudes to change. Be patient. It IS getting better.


Yes, I agree, times have changed. I was actually referring to myself when I said not much has changed. I love running equipment even though I've been promoted out of it, and I chose not to have kids. If I had it to do all over again I'd still do what I do.


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## Dleg (Jul 13, 2009)

Mary, on that G-scale train set, are you saying that size matters?


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## MA_PE (Jul 13, 2009)

Dleg said:


> Mary, on that G-scale train set, are you saying that size matters?


and can you ride those trains to the mythical G-spot?


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## benbo (Jul 13, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> One exception was when my Daddy was working at NASA in Huntsville during the summers. He and the other engineers would hang around outside and drink beer sometimes. I wonder now what cool things they were talking about (this was the era of the first Apollo missions).


I'm also of this age and this brings back vivid memories. My dad was a physicist at Hughes Aircraft (he worked on the space program and then on spy satellites), my mom was a lawyer. I remember them having parties and for some reason I always remember them listening to the Tijuana Brass, and drinking Gibsons, like something out of "The Graduate." I also remember a lot of men with thick, black, horn-rimmed glasses and also some fellows that seemed like they were from Germany and India. I don't know, these memories are really clear to me.

I also have to crack up because I found an old newspaper clipping from the Caltech student newspaper, circa 1940-something. My dad went to grad school there, and my mom was a secretary there before she went to law school. It was a story about my mom from a series of stories about secretaries at Caltech called "Secs at Tech." What a bunch of nerds.


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## benbo (Jul 13, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> and can you ride those trains to the mythical G-spot?


bump to get this back on track after my trip down memory lane.


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## maryannette (Jul 14, 2009)

tymr said:


> ... and I chose not to have kids. If I had it to do all over again I'd still do what I do.


That's what freedom is all about. That is why I love this country. That is your choice and your balance.



> Mary, on that G-scale train set, are you saying that size matters?


The G refers to "Garden". The scale is 1:22 (but varies between manufacturers). I just prefer G to HO. Seems that EVERYBODY has HO scale (1:87)



> and can you ride those trains to the mythical G-spot?


The spot for my train has been around the Christmas tree, but I hope to have it set up on the porch some day.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 14, 2009)

csb said:


> I'm in the same boat...I don't belong to anything because dues are ridiculous and I can't justify the perceived benefit against the cost. I think eb.com is a much better engineering community and it's free.


I agree. Plus, I'm not much of a 'joiner.' I'm not a big fan of groups.



Mary :) said:


> The spot for my train has been around the Christmas tree, but I hope to have it set up on the porch some day.


That'd be neat. When I was a kid, my parents took us somwhere that had trains like that you could ride on. Might have been in Ohio..I'll have to ask. I thought it was bitchin', though!


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## jmbeck (Jul 14, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> The spot for my train has been around the Christmas tree, but I hope to have it set up on the porch some day.


We didn't do this at my house, but my wife's family has a train around their tree. I was pretty sold on the idea, and have been looking for one to put around our tree.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 14, 2009)

> I just prefer G to HO.


I always prefer my G's to a couple HO's.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 14, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> We didn't do this at my house, but my wife's family has a train around their tree. I was pretty sold on the idea, and have been looking for one to put around our tree.


I have a train I put around the tree every so often. Its kinda cool seeing it run between all the presents.


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## TouchDown (Jul 14, 2009)

I cannot participate in train discussions, I never had one or really wanted one. It was fun to see model trains when I visited places when I was younger.

I always had racetracks instead of trains. The smell of those little cars warming up and the sound they made going around the tracks. My brother and I would tear them apart and try to reassemble in different configurations to see which setup would be the fastest / tires / body style / etc.

That was fun. We took that track apart and back together so many times we wore out the electrical connections and eventually only ended up with just enough to make a small oval at the end before I think they all got pitched...

Any of you girls have racetracks or enjoy gocarts / etc?


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## Fluvial (Jul 14, 2009)

TD I don't think those racetrack thingys were out when I was of the age to play with them. My brother inherited a train set from our cousins, but the thing never worked right. All of us kids played with it.

One of the things I do remember playing with for hours on end was those colored blocks (kind of like this) that come in shapes including arches &amp; columns. My brother and sisters and I would build elaborate cities and places for toy cars to drive around in. I found the building much more satisfying than playing with the cars.

I also loooved playing in the mud. We'd build tunnels and mud castles and all kinds of stuff. We'd play in the creeks too - catch crawfish and put 'em in coke bottles, build 'dams' with sticks - man, those were the days. If you were a kid with a bike, the world was your oyster.



benbo said:


> I remember them having parties and for some reason I always remember them listening to the Tijuana Brass, and drinking Gibsons, like something out of "The Graduate." I also remember a lot of men with thick, black, horn-rimmed glasses and also some fellows that seemed like they were from Germany and India. I don't know, these memories are really clear to me.


Yes! Exactly!



> I also have to crack up because I found an old newspaper clipping from the Caltech student newspaper, circa 1940-something. My dad went to grad school there, and my mom was a secretary there before she went to law school. It was a story about my mom from a series of stories about secretaries at Caltech called "Secs at Tech." What a bunch of nerds.


Heh.


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## maryannette (Jul 14, 2009)

It's funny that when we were growing up, my 2 younger sisters made fun of me for being prissy. I lost that somewhere along the way. Feminine, yes. Prissy, no.


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## tymr (Jul 14, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> Any of you girls have racetracks or enjoy gocarts / etc?


I didn't actually own the racetrack but I did get to watch my brother play with his. J/K. Those racetrack sections hurt when you'd get smacked by one.

But now, my husband owns a race car. Still don't own the track, but the car's a pretty good runner up.

I totally dig gocarts. Whenever we were on family vacations, Dad would stop whenever he saw one off in the distance. He'd buy the first two rounds, then wait hours while us kids spent our hard earned money on the other rounds. He never told us it was time to go. He always let us decide when to throw in the towel.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> I have a question - are any of us members of Society of Women Engineers (SWE)? Some friends of mine started having a monthly lunch and, little by little, most all of my female engineer colleagues have been invited. We are kicking around the idea of joining SWE and having a little Jackson group.


I belonged to SWE for maybe a year in college and went to perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 of the meetings. There is a chapter "near" me that meets perhaps an hour from work and 1.5 hours from home.....every so often I think about it, but don't follow through, partly because....

I'm very involved in ASCE. I've been on the executive board for 9-10 years and am about to start my second stint (5 years later) as section president. I have lots of plans - and a good board to follow through with them. ASCE is the whole reason I haven't confused my job with my career. It's such a pleasure to have (real) friends to bounce ideas with that aren't coworkers. It does take time investment to build real friendships - it doesn't happen with a meeting once or twice a year.... I also appreciate being able to call anyone in the country "on behalf of ASCE" or "an ASCE member seeking assistance"....and I'm in a position where I can truly change our local profession for the better. I literally don't think anyone could give me a technical problem that I couldn't get a great resource once or twice removed.....that's gold! My employer pays my membership, but I'd do it anyway if not.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

on the how'd you grow up question - a mix for me:

3 or 4 years old - "I want to be a nurse. (the only moment in my life I had that answer.)" Seared into my brain is Dad's response, "you know, you could be a doctor if you want." "Nyah"

I had 3 younger brothers so I played with loads of boy toys. I got skiis first, had a great bike, tried loads of Dad's hobbies: (very short list) ham radio, electronics, bikes, xc skiing, motorcycles, sailing, power boats, waverunners, guns, archery, kayaking, skating, sledding, hiking, classic cars, driving sports cars, gardening, RC, kites, computers, etc. along with lots of mom's hobbies too - knitting sewing cooking baking, crafts, etc. Between the two of them I remember professionals hired once when I was a kid -- to help Dad rebuild a transmission. The built, fixed or made everything. They got interested in something and learned how. My dad had 5 brothers and a dad with hobbies similar to his - so I saw alot of that -- I've shot cannons for fun in the woods....Grandpa then one of my uncles owned the family biz - boat and motorcycle dealer -- we'd always borrow something to try every visit.

Negatives - I wasn't encouraged in team sports and the little I did I'd be dropped off for and picked up later. Dad didn't coach me or develop my skills. My 3 brothers got a mini-bike one Christmas and I wasn't included (and felt left out). I *did *ride it as much as they did. I was prepared academically for engineering, but not with some other associated skills (that I've since acquired).

As far as grade/high school, I was in environments where girls did great in math and science. I had no idea that some people thought they couldn't....I was flabbergasted when I first heard.

I liked girl stuff and boy stuff both.....still do.

ASCE did some research on women choosing a profession. We're real good at telling how hard engineering is -- but we're really bad at saying how creative, essential, rewarding it is - how much it helps people....that aspect is what grabs women (on average).

Like some others I took the ASVAB in high school - I had huge scores on 3D visualization, and spatial problems. Those skills are not typical of my gender, but I have them big-time. The question is -- are those skills innate, or did I develop them through experience? I have no idea.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

PS. My mom wouldn't let me have Barbies.... :true: connection or not?

I once read an article arguing that it wasn't about Barbies vs. no Barbies but about what those Barbies did. The author's Barbie used her thigh high silver lame boots to fight fires......


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> I cannot participate in train discussions, I never had one or really wanted one. It was fun to see model trains when I visited places when I was younger.
> I always had racetracks instead of trains. The smell of those little cars warming up and the sound they made going around the tracks. My brother and I would tear them apart and try to reassemble in different configurations to see which setup would be the fastest / tires / body style / etc.
> 
> That was fun. We took that track apart and back together so many times we wore out the electrical connections and eventually only ended up with just enough to make a small oval at the end before I think they all got pitched...
> ...


We'd go see trains too - and one brother had some, but they got taken away when he was really rough with them -- then forgotten for way way too long. (He sets 'em up under the Xmas tree now.)

I love racetracks....toy and real.

Go carts -- YES!!!! (went for my wedding anniversary once)....motorcycles, boats, cars, anything.....I've been commuting an hour each way for too long, but still just get this thrill whenever I hit an accelerator. It's just FUN.... I got a motorcycle as an anniversary gift one year but got pregnant right after and although my husband rode it a bit, it didn't suit the daycare run lifestyle and we sold it. On sunny days I think about getting one again -- maybe when my oldest can drive.....and I become less responsible for kid transport.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> Dad's hobbies: (very short list) ham radio, electronics, bikes, xc skiing, motorcycles, sailing, power boats, waverunners, guns, archery, kayaking, skating, sledding, hiking, classic cars, driving sports cars, gardening, RC, kites, computers, etc.


I forgot snowmobiles, flying, woodworking, camping, hi-fi, movies, video, photography, art, car repair, home remodeling, gardening. There was usually a new one or two every year....we didn't get bored.

It was quite the childhood - especially because my Dad would talk to just about anybody about anything -- the punk kid all about his guitar to the surfer about boards and waves, the hang glider about crashes, the scary biker about his Harley, to the museum owner about the antique fire equipment. I benefited a lot by just listening to those interactions.


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## maryannette (Jul 15, 2009)

Is it just me, or are women more open to discussion about their lives?


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## Supe (Jul 15, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> Is it just me, or are women more open to discussion about their lives?



There's only so much about sex, beer, and flatulence that we men can discuss.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 15, 2009)

I like football and porno and books about war...


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## Supe (Jul 15, 2009)

Do we need a Men's Lounge for discussion of all things bearded and rugged?


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## MA_PE (Jul 15, 2009)

Supe said:


> Do we need a Men's Lounge for discussion of all things bearded and rugged?


what would classify a clam as "rugged"?


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## Supe (Jul 15, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> what would classify a clam as "rugged"?



Abrasion resistance and the ability to spit.


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## Katiebug (Jul 15, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> I cannot participate in train discussions, I never had one or really wanted one. It was fun to see model trains when I visited places when I was younger.
> I always had racetracks instead of trains. The smell of those little cars warming up and the sound they made going around the tracks. My brother and I would tear them apart and try to reassemble in different configurations to see which setup would be the fastest / tires / body style / etc.
> 
> That was fun. We took that track apart and back together so many times we wore out the electrical connections and eventually only ended up with just enough to make a small oval at the end before I think they all got pitched...
> ...


Nope, not into dirt bikes or anything of the sort. Some of my hobbies are stereotypically female - knitting, reading, organic vegetable gardening. We do a lot of DIY projects, too. I belong to a book club. My husband and I run together for exercise, and we like to go hiking with our dog. I'm big into knitting, though. A surprising number of engineers knit...on Ravelry there's a whole group of us!

I deal with enough machinery at work every day. When I'm away from the office I need other outlets where I don't have to tinker with things!



VTEnviro said:


> I like football and porno and books about war...


Do you have an average house with a nice hardwood floor?


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

Supe said:


> Do we need a Men's Lounge for discussion of all things bearded and rugged?


Why not?

I'd visit -- you just know what you're walking into if you go there....


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 15, 2009)

Katiebug said:


> Do you have an average house with a nice hardwood floor?


I'm glad someone caught onto that. :bananapowerslide:


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## SparksFlyingPE (Jul 15, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> Any of you girls have racetracks or enjoy gocarts / etc?


Motorcycles! This is my current baby....Triumph Speed Triple. Super fun!


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## SparksFlyingPE (Jul 15, 2009)

Supe said:


> Abrasion resistance and the ability to spit.


:Locolaugh:


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## SparksFlyingPE (Jul 15, 2009)

Also - about SWE, I don't like the idea of excluding men (yeah, I know men are invited and welcome, but the name suggests otherwise). There's no SME, that would be wrong, so why is it OK to have SWE?

Personally I get a lot more useful knowledge out of IEEE.

However, although not a member, I do volunteer for some of the SWE events that I feel are important. They hold a few each year that introduce middle- and high-school girls to engineering thru workshops and activities. When I was young, nobody told me I could be an engineer so I never thought about it. I want that not to happen to other girls


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## TouchDown (Jul 15, 2009)

SparksFlying said:


> Motorcycles! This is my current baby....Triumph Speed Triple. Super fun!


I'm not a huge motorcycle guy. I had a few dirt bikes when I was a teenager... and my wife won't "let" me have one now - especially since I've had 2 moron cousins killed on bikes, doesn't help the argument for one.

I had to go look up on Wiki the Speed Triple. I found this interesting:



> A jet black Speed Triple can be seen in the 1999 movie The Matrix; it is the bike used by Trinity as she witnesses Neo's arrest by agents outside of his office building.


That bike looks fun. Where I'm at the weather is supposed to be fantastic this weekend, almost perfect for a bike ride. Hope it's the same where you're at.


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## TouchDown (Jul 15, 2009)

SparksFlying said:


> Also - about SWE, I don't like the idea of excluding men (yeah, I know men are invited and welcome, but the name suggests otherwise). There's no SME, that would be wrong, so why is it OK to have SWE? Personally I get a lot more useful knowledge out of IEEE.
> 
> However, although not a member, I do volunteer for some of the SWE events that I feel are important. They hold a few each year that introduce middle- and high-school girls to engineering thru workshops and activities. When I was young, nobody told me I could be an engineer so I never thought about it. I want that not to happen to other girls


I think gathering groups for minorities are more widely accepted, because the smaller groups have more to benefit from the meetings and discussion. There just aren't a high percentage of women engineers, so it's trying to improve communication / understanding / etc, just like the activities you've participated in. Those are great to help people "get the picture".

I'm glad that these groups exist - for one, I have daughters at home that I want to grow up knowing they can be ANYTHING they want to be, and groups like this are trying to overcome decades of prejudice and stupid generalizations.

There's a Society of Black Engineers, but I don't see a need for a Society of White Engineers...


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## MGX (Jul 15, 2009)

Why are women encouraged to participate in masculine hobbies and wear masculine clothes but not the converse?

Why the societal check?

PS. My campus has a society of Hispanic engineers and a society of Indian Engineers.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 15, 2009)

SparksFlying said:


> Also - about SWE, I don't like the idea of excluding men (yeah, I know men are invited and welcome, but the name suggests otherwise). There's no SME, that would be wrong, so why is it OK to have SWE? Personally I get a lot more useful knowledge out of IEEE.
> 
> However, although not a member, I do volunteer for some of the SWE events that I feel are important. They hold a few each year that introduce middle- and high-school girls to engineering thru workshops and activities. When I was young, nobody told me I could be an engineer so I never thought about it. I want that not to happen to other girls


we actually had a guy that was more active in SWE than a good portion of the female members.


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## csb (Jul 15, 2009)

We can start a movement for you MGX. THen you can break out your heels. Just let us know.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 15, 2009)

MGX said:


> Why are women encouraged to participate in masculine hobbies and wear masculine clothes but not the converse?
> Why the societal check?
> 
> PS. My campus has a society of Hispanic engineers and a society of Indian Engineers.


unless your scottish the kilts all around


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## MGX (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't really want anything to change - I like my double standards as they are.

None have been able to provide a sufficient apologetic to explain the phenomenon.


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## csb (Jul 15, 2009)

I think because a lot of men things are attributed to intelligence and work and whatnot, while women's skills don't have similar ranking. A girl rebuilding an engine can be an engineer someday, while a boy who cleans like a bat outta hell is going to be a maid. "Women's work" still isn't held in very high regard, so there's no reason to encourage it.

Plus most me are afraid they'll be called :ghey: We even have an emoticon for it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 15, 2009)

^Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## MA_PE (Jul 15, 2009)

> cleans like a bat outta hell


male or female send the person to my house.


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## Fluvial (Jul 15, 2009)

MGX said:


> I don't really want anything to change - I like my double standards as they are.
> None have been able to provide a sufficient apologetic to explain the phenomenon.


To be fair, some careers such as nursing are now actively encouraging more men to join their ranks. One of my brothers-in-law is a new RN.

Traditionally, 'womens' careers' are not seen as worthy as 'men's careers'. As csb says, men might be loathe to admit that they've taken up needlepoint since society has taught them to be afraid of 'catching teh gay'. It seems to me that it's changing (for the better).

One of the good things, I think, to come out of the womens' movement has been this broadening of minds to encourage men to show their feelings, consider nursing or other traditional female roles, etc.

It's kind of like this idea that the choice to be a 'stay at home mom' is just as valid as the choice to pursue a career. People deserve the freedom to decide what they want to do; and one path is not better than another; rather, the path which suits the woman and her family is the best. Similarly, traditional male pursuits are just as groovy for guys as non-traditional pursuits. It's all good IMO.

The worth of a person is so much more than just their gender. I love men and wouldn't trade my hubby or sons for anything on the planet. They are not one-dimensional people; they have many varied interests, some manly and some not-so-manly. I'm down with all that.


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## TouchDown (Jul 15, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> One of the good things, I think, to come out of the womens' movement has been this broadening of minds *to encourage men to show their feelings*, consider nursing or other traditional female roles, etc.


WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, let's not take it too far and get out of control here.


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## Fluvial (Jul 15, 2009)

You're a fine one to talk about things not being out of control. Just look at the driving there in your avatar. Tsk, tsk.

oking:


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## csb (Jul 15, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, let's not take it too far and get out of control here.


TouchDown...how do you feel about that post?


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## SparksFlyingPE (Jul 15, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> It's kind of like this idea that the choice to be a 'stay at home mom' is just as valid as the choice to pursue a career.


Yep. Although we're great at our engineering jobs, they can always be filled by someone else. But when it comes to raising kiddoes, there's only one mom and one dad. Nobody can take their place, and I think mom or dad staying at home and raising kids is the most honorable, most important and most difficult job in existence.

Someday I hope to have that job. Or my husband to have it....as long as one of us gets the honor, I'd be thrilled


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 15, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> ...One of the good things, I think, to come out of the womens' movement has been this broadening of minds to encourage men to show their feelings, consider nursing or other traditional female roles, etc.
> 
> ...



Are you saying that you would marry or want your son(s) to be emo?


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

Neither my husband or I is cut out to be a (stereotypical) full-time parent. If either of us were in that role, we'd start a business, volunteer out the wahzoo, start up major home renovations or who knows....

I know I'm a far better parent because of all I learned from the people who helped care for my kids...plus they got exposed to things I couldn't give them like Spanish language, same age peers, and latin dance. They're both social and comfortable with a wide range of situations and people because it's normal to them. We're all drawn to spend time together and enjoy each other's company, but I think one reason why is because we bring so much experience from outside our family back into it.

On the other hand, one of my brothers and sis-in-law have gone to great lengths to choose careers and stagger work hours to allow one of them to always be home with the kids because that was very important to them. And they have great kids too....

It's a combination of parent personalities, kid personalities, economics and realistic options....and we all make different choices.


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## Fluvial (Jul 15, 2009)

FLBuff PE said:


> Are you saying that you would marry or want your son(s) to be emo?


I don't think I'd be attracted to a dude who was hugely "emo" - but that's just personal preference. A male friend could certainly be "emo", and that'd be fine.

I don't think I'd care if my son were "emo". Why would I?


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 15, 2009)

FLBuff PE said:


> Are you saying that you would marry or want your son(s) to be emo?


I'd want the entire package - available as needed....for the situation.

My mother used to say, "....you better marry a man who likes to cook and clean or have enough money to hire someone to do it for you..."

Although it wasn't make or break, my husband is very willing to share in those responsibilities.

I'd call it a toss-up who is the better cook -- he cooks more than I do right now because I commute and he doesn't.

He does our laundry because he's way more picky than I am. (My way - dark or light in warm or cold. His way - 6 categories each with special requirements)

I do most of the social plans, buying gifts, keeping in touch with friends etc - because he hates that....but likes socializing if I arrange it all.

He's read to kids most nights for 12-13 years now. It's not my thing, so I bond with kids other ways.

We trade off financial stuff and bills.

We both drive when we're together in one car.

Is he emo? I can guarantee he'd never ever describe himself that way -- that should be answer enough! I think the latest book he's reading is on war.


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 15, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> I don't think I'd be attracted to a dude who was hugely "emo" - but that's just personal preference. A male friend could certainly be "emo", and that'd be fine.
> I don't think I'd care if my son were "emo". Why would I?


I would like to think that I wouldn't either, but I don't know. We'll see if I have a son, and if he is emo. I'm pretty accepting of anyone, and how they chose to lead their life.



CivE Bricky said:


> I'd want the entire package - available as needed....for the situation.
> My mother used to say, "....you better marry a man who likes to cook and clean or have enough money to hire someone to do it for you..."
> 
> Although it wasn't make or break, my husband is very willing to share in those responsibilities.
> ...


I would say that your husband is NOT emo.


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## Fluvial (Jul 15, 2009)

FLBuff PE said:


> I would like to think that I wouldn't either, but I don't know. We'll see if I have a son, and if he is emo. I'm pretty accepting of anyone, and how they chose to lead their life.


Between hubby and I, we have four kids. They each have some qualities which I don't like, and have done a great many things which I don't like. What I've found is, as a mom, I love them all no matter what. I think you will find that to be true as well.


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## Road Guy (Jul 15, 2009)

Okay WTF is emo?


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## maryannette (Jul 15, 2009)

Wow! Good thread.


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## frazil (Jul 15, 2009)




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## tymr (Jul 15, 2009)

SparksFlying said:


> But when it comes to raising kiddoes, there's only one mom and one dad. Nobody can take their place, and I think mom or dad staying at home and raising kids is the most honorable, most important and most difficult job in existence.


I agree. I've got a friend who stays at home with her five kids. She has received more crap than encouragement from other women for staying home with them. I support her every chance I get because I know she's got the world's hardest job. I'm not mom material, but I'm a stepmom, have a grandson and a grandbun.....and I wouldn't trade that for the world.


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## TouchDown (Jul 15, 2009)

My wife is a stay at home mom, and there are days when I wish I could change places with her... but they are VERY infrequent. It's not as easy as it looks from the outside.


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## Fluvial (Jul 15, 2009)

It's a very tough job, and also one of the most meaningful things a parent can do. I wish I could have stayed home with my kids, but I ended up a single mom when they were very small. It happened to coincide with my graduating so I just went on and started my career. I would have liked to have stayed home at least until they started kindergarten.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 16, 2009)

I worked with a guy who was really into sewing. He made his own clothes, and even took his sewing machine on TDY with him and would work in the hotel room. He was a really big guy, so no one teased him about it.


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## Ble_PE (Jul 16, 2009)

My wife's last day of work is today. She is planning on staying home with the kids until they are school age if possible. We are thankful that we are in the position financially to be able to do this and we feel like it is the best thing for us to do.


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## Fluvial (Jul 16, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I worked with a guy who was really into sewing. He made his own clothes, and even took his sewing machine on TDY with him and would work in the hotel room. He was a really big guy, so no one teased him about it.


I know quite a few guys in the Army Nat'l Guard who have learned to sew. I guess they sew their tents and stuff.

Also knew a retired Army Colonel who took up needlepoint in his old age. He made a bunch of covers for the kneeling cushions at the altar rail for our church back home.

ble that is great.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 16, 2009)

ble31980 said:


> My wife's last day of work is today. She is planning on staying home with the kids until they are school age if possible. We are thankful that we are in the position financially to be able to do this and we feel like it is the best thing for us to do.


Some days i would love to do that, other days not so mcuh. We could do it financially, but I have the better health insurance. Our current plan is me home for 3-6 months, depending on baby, daycare options, and my sanity. Then work part time for the remainder of the 12 month FMLA period the state offers. The state stops paying their portion of the health insurance at 6 months, hence the need to work part time.



Fluvial said:


> I know quite a few guys in the Army Nat'l Guard who have learned to sew. I guess they sew their tents and stuff.
> Also knew a retired Army Colonel who took up needlepoint in his old age. He made a bunch of covers for the kneeling cushions at the altar rail for our church back home.
> 
> ble that is great.


I have heard from several former military men, sewing/crossstitching type stuff is often prescribed as a stress/anger management tool.

I know it works, cuz I pull that stuf out when I'm stressed and it works wonders.


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## csb (Jul 16, 2009)

Holy crap...we only are guaranteed the 12 WEEK FMLA leave, which is of course unpaid. Most supervisors work with us, but that is really awesome for you!


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## Ble_PE (Jul 16, 2009)

snickerd3 said:


> Some days i would love to do that, other days not so mcuh. We could do it financially, but I have the better health insurance. Our current plan is me home for 3-6 months, depending on baby, daycare options, and my sanity. Then work part time for the remainder of the 12 month FMLA period the state offers. The state stops paying their portion of the health insurance at 6 months, hence the need to work part time.


My wife is looking forward to it now, but I'm sure it is going to stress her out at times. One of the big reasons she wants to do it is because she grew up in a culture where the kids were always taken care of by family. There was no such thing as day care, so it doesn't seem right to her to drop our kid off for someone else to take care of.


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## TouchDown (Jul 16, 2009)

csb said:


> Holy crap...we only are guaranteed the 12 WEEK FMLA leave, which is of course unpaid. Most supervisors work with us, but that is really awesome for you!


I think our company will allow for a percentage of pay for maternity leave for a few weeks... but I think they have the women who take that sign an agreement that they'll return to work for a year after the 12 weeks is over. If they choose not to, and stay home, they are under a legal agreement to pay back the money they were paid during the leave...

I think the "paid leave" had burnt them enough when the mom's decide during the time off to not return to work, and ended up getting paid when they left work.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 16, 2009)

csb said:


> Holy crap...we only are guaranteed the 12 WEEK FMLA leave, which is of course unpaid. Most supervisors work with us, but that is really awesome for you!


we have several options

Maternity leave is 3 months, of which 1 month is paid, and our job is guaranteed

then we have family/medical leave where you can work parttime or go unpaid for a total of 12 months, inclusive of the 3month maternity, where we will have job, but not necessarily the same one. But our management is really proactive and no one has gotten reassigned to a different position after coming back from a medical leave or family care.


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## csb (Jul 16, 2009)

We can use vacation and sick leave to maintain our benefits and pay during that time. I can see where a lot of people might take advantage of a paid leave.

I ended home a lot longer than 12 weeks and came back on a shortened in office schedule. I don't think I'd be a good stay-at-home mom. One parenting book said, "A happy mom makes a happy child" in regards to staying home vs. working and I have to remind myself of that when I get grief about my decision.


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## maryannette (Jul 16, 2009)

ble31980 said:


> My wife is looking forward to it now, but I'm sure it is going to stress her out at times. One of the big reasons she wants to do it is because she grew up in a culture where the kids were always taken care of by family. There was no such thing as day care, so it doesn't seem right to her to drop our kid off for someone else to take care of.


I was raised by a stay-at-home mom, but I had no problem dropping mine off at daycare to go back to work.


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## MGX (Jul 16, 2009)

Emo kids just need a haircut and an ass-kicking.

Making clothing can only get so macho. I did help some ladies at church set up a CNC embroidery machine but had to leave when I felt a twinge of :f_115m_e45d7af: .


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 16, 2009)

I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 16, 2009)

Ditto.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 16, 2009)

Inspired by FLBuff


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 16, 2009)

I fully admit stealing that saying from a demotivational poster I saw.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 16, 2009)

where can i get one of those? self cutting lawn would be great


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## MGX (Jul 16, 2009)

How does one get striations in the lawn like that?


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 16, 2009)

MGX said:


> How does one get striations in the lawn like that?


I've wondered that myslef. Especially the ones they do at ballparks.


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## maryannette (Jul 16, 2009)

It has to do with the cut pattern. My brother did golf course mowing at one time. There might be more to it, but the direction the mower is moving makes a difference.


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## maryannette (Jul 16, 2009)

Hey, this is the women's room. Are we allowed to talk about grass mowing?


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 16, 2009)

Yes, just not lawn mowing.


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## TouchDown (Jul 16, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> Hey, this is the women's room. Are we allowed to talk about grass mowing?


Is that anything like "getting your hedges trimmed"?????

:rotflmao:


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 16, 2009)

MGX said:


> How does one get striations in the lawn like that?


Mary's answer is partially correct. The direction the mower went plays a part. It's more promenant immediately after you're done cutting, but to help with the "brighter" lines, you can do what they do at the ball parks: roll it. it's a roller similar to the one used for laying sod except not quite as heavy. It just mashes the grass down in a similar fashion as crop circles.

The only reason it always looks so good in the pro fields is that the grass is mowed daily vs the weekly/bi-weekly like the rest of us.


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## Dleg (Jul 16, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> The G refers to "Garden". The scale is 1:22 (but varies between manufacturers). I just prefer G to HO. Seems that EVERYBODY has HO scale (1:87)


I was just trying to be crude. But I think it's awesome you have a G-scale train. Have you set up an actual garden railroad yet? I would love to do that. I saw some live steam G-scale trains at the railroad museum in Golden, CO. That's what I want, as an engineer - a live steam model train. I found some websites on those and had to physically restrain myself from breaking out the credit card.

What kind of train do you have? My son would be so impressed.



snickerd3 said:


> where can i get one of those? self cutting lawn would be great


Buy a goat.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 16, 2009)

Dleg said:


> Buy a goat.


i'd still want a lawn and not a dead patch of roots


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 17, 2009)

MGX said:


> How does one get striations in the lawn like that?


I love message boards. They are a fantastic source of information. During a quest to find out how to kill bahaia while encouraging centipede growth, I stumbled across a message board for people who ran lawn care business.

The striations are known as 'stripes' in the lawncare biz, and those who are good at making them are quite proud of it. They post pictures and techniques. I'd post the message board, but I changed computers since the last time I used it, and lost the addy.



Mary :) said:


> Hey, this is the women's room. Are we allowed to talk about grass mowing?


You probably didn't want to go there...


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## MA_PE (Jul 17, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> You probably didn't want to go there...


you're right. we should probably change the topic to carpet cleaning.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 17, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> you're right. we should probably change the topic to carpet cleaning.


Or carpet/drapery coordination.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 17, 2009)

What about the best product for polishing a wood floor?


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## Supe (Jul 17, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> What about the best product for polishing a wood floor?



It really depends on the state of your floor. Old vs. new, polyurethane, general cleaning vs actual polish, etc.


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## Fluvial (Jul 17, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Or carpet/drapery coordination.


My mom (who was born in 1928) told me that when she went off to college, she was shocked to find out (via the communal bathrooms) how many girls dyed their hair. I got the impression that it was considered a bit scandalous back in the day.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 17, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> My mom (who was born in 1928) told me that when she went off to college, she was shocked to find out (via the communal bathrooms) how many girls dyed their hair. I got the impression that it was considered a bit scandalous back in the day.


My grandma was one of the those scandalous girls, dyed her hair, smoked cigarettes, and drank beer with the boys.


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## Fluvial (Jul 17, 2009)

^^ I don't think it took Mom too long to join their ranks.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 17, 2009)

easily corrupted, huh?


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## Fluvial (Jul 17, 2009)

She was just a fun-lovin' gal, what can I say.


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## maryannette (Jul 17, 2009)

My mom was born in 1929 and I've seen pictures. Oh, MY!!!


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> I know I'm a far better parent because of all I learned from the people who helped care for my kids...plus they got exposed to things I couldn't give them like Spanish language, same age peers, and latin dance. They're both social and comfortable with a wide range of situations and people because it's normal to them. We're all drawn to spend time together and enjoy each other's company, but I think one reason why is because we bring so much experience from outside our family back into it.


Personally, I think that's awesome. FMJR and I have talked A LOT about this, and if we have children, that is certainly something we both want to encourage: exposure to lots of different things; especially different cultures. We both strongly feel that helps in developing a better sense of who you are and a healthy respect of those around you.



CivE Bricky said:


> It's a combination of parent personalities, kid personalities, economics and realistic options....and we all make different choices.


Truer words were never said ...

Interestingly, I read an article recently about the CA budget crisis - it started off with single mother, 19 yrs old, will lose education support and child daycare funds and proceeded to paint a picture of bleakness on an apocalyptic scale. I often get frustrated because we come from all different walks of life and the struggle to define who we are and what we want in life. That struggle, IMHO, is critical to defintion and whether you stay at home to be a mother or go to trade school, college, or whatever you chose to do - it's your life to do it. Our country is awesome that it affords you the ability to have choices - not gurantee your successes.

I digressed momentarily, but my point here is that you are right - many different things factor into how one would chose to raise their children and there is no one right way of doing it. 



CivE Bricky said:


> IMy mother used to say, "....you better marry a man who likes to cook and clean or have enough money to hire someone to do it for you..."Although it wasn't make or break, my husband is very willing to share in those responsibilities.


I agree that a partner who is willing to pick up the slack and is committed to giving their best effort at all times is not only critical to a happy marriage, but also for raising children.



CivE Bricky said:


> I'd call it a toss-up who is the better cook -- he cooks more than I do right now because I commute and he doesn't.


Interesting, when I was with ex-Mrs. JR, I did most of the cooking because she was working all kinds of crazy hours as the Supreme Allied Commander of Nurses for her faciity. The responsibility for cooking came down on my squarely as well, because she her son was still a minor and her elderly mother was living with us as well. At first I didn't mind it because it was one of the first times in our marriage that I had some discretion with grocery shopping and meal choices. That quickly eroded when everyone realized I could cook as well as ex-Mrs. JR and didn't seem to mind it then I had all sorts of 'requests' foisted upon me and it became a chore. Especially after being the primary responsible party after a year or two.

However, don't take that as a gripe on my part - I learned MANY things from that period of my life. I am very grateful for what I have now, especially in FMJR.



CivE Bricky said:


> He does our laundry because he's way more picky than I am. (My way - dark or light in warm or cold. His way - 6 categories each with special requirements) I do most of the social plans, buying gifts, keeping in touch with friends etc - because he hates that....but likes socializing if I arrange it all.
> 
> He's read to kids most nights for 12-13 years now. It's not my thing, so I bond with kids other ways.
> 
> ...


What I see is someone who is willing to be a partner in the responsibilities you both share. I don't consider that emo ... I consider that to be equitable and balanced ... and if anything healthy as both of you are happy with how things are working.

Right now FMJR has been at home, not working. She's been volunteering at a hospital, considering additional/alternate education, but she is very considerate about doing everything ... cooking, cleaning, laundry, ... she's very doting. More so than ex-Mrs. JR. Sometimes I feel guilty because I am not reciprocating in the same way but I realize that FMJR is happy to do the things she does for me. Part of it is my mind set of expectation vs. doing because you want to and I know that is something I still need to break-out from my old mindset.

How's that for emo? 



snickerd3 said:


> My grandma was one of the those scandalous girls, dyed her hair, smoked cigarettes, and drank beer with the boys.


My great grandmother was apparently very scandalous! She left her playboy husband with four children in tote - settled in south florida. When she went to re-marry, she told the guy her daughters were her little sisters, so she could still go out freely without the social stigma attached.

My grandmother was quite crazy too - her official political voter registration was communist, she was a self-professed wiccan, and actively smoked pot until her dying day.

Apparenlty, I am the boring one in the family. 

JR


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## kevo_55 (Jul 18, 2009)

jregieng said:


> What I see is someone who is willing to be a partner in the responsibilities you both share. I don't consider that emo ... I consider that to be equitable and balanced ... and if anything healthy as both of you are happy with how things are working.


Now that has the sounds of a healthy relationship! I'm searious!

And you deserve it JR!

Speaking of Grandma's..... I am the only buy grandchild on my Mom's side. My Grandma used to spoil me rotten. :cheeburga:

Oh and my Grandma DID NOT dye her hair, get tattoos, or go out drinking with the guys. She was a good girl!!


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## maryannette (Jul 18, 2009)

kevo_55 said:


> ... DID NOT dye her hair, get tattoos, or go out drinking with the guys. She was a good girl!!


Is that the definition of a good girl? I have a very cool story to tell and I will maybe later today when I can take time.


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## Fluvial (Jul 18, 2009)

^^ Looking forward to it Mary.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

Fluvial said:


> ^^ Looking forward to it Mary.


+1 !!!

JR


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## maryannette (Jul 18, 2009)

Years ago, I worked for a German company doing product design. I enjoyed my work and did well in that job. It had its ups and downs. I was not well-accepted as an engineer by most of the Germans. The German language did not even have a proper word for a female engineer. German language uses gender and the word for engineer was only used to refer to men. I learned this when I was taking German language classes provided by the company.

During that time, I had the worst boss in my career followed by the best boss in my career. Both were German men. I won't dwell on the worst one now. That is another story. I'll just say that I survived until he went back to Germany.

The good boss liked me, respected me, and realized that it wasn't always easy for me. He never cut me any slack, but was a very good people manager and I appreciated that.

The industry I worked in used trade shows to introduce products. There were 2 very prestigious, "gotta-go-to" shows - one in Chicago and one in Germany. Only the fair-haired-boys got to go to the one in Germany. My favorite boss decided that I should be allowed to go to the trade show. Other engineers who had done work like me had been to that trade show and he wanted to be fair. He had asked permission to allow me to go, but the power-bosses in Germany said no. Well, that didn't stop him. He set up a needed technical trip to consult with a specialist in Germany and bought my tickets. He got in trouble for it, but I went.

It was a unique trip. I was travelling alone and knew very little German. I got to the motel on my own. I got to the offices on my own. The tradeshow day was most interesting. Two young engineers who spoke English picked me up at the motel and took me with them. We had to ride a train to the tradeshow - it was about a 2-hour trip. We got to the show and split up and walked the show for a few hours. We met back late in the afternoon. It was a tradition to walk to a local tavern and drink beers, then travel back home. I went into this old-time German bar with a group of about 15 German men. They ranged in age from 20's to 50's. I know I was the first female ever to be included in that trade show tradition. We drank beer. There were a couple plates of appetizers. They mostly spoke German, so I didn't know all of what they said. But, I knew they were acknowledging me as unique. I'll never forget that time when I shared a couple of beers with a bunch of German engineers. If they were not nice to me, I couldn't tell because of the language barrier. And I didn't care. Some of them actually acknowledged that I had done something special and congratulated me.


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## Fluvial (Jul 18, 2009)

Now *that* is one to tell the grandkids. Very cool, Mary. Very cool.


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## engineergurl (Jul 18, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> Is that the definition of a good girl? I have a very cool story to tell and I will maybe later today when I can take time.



hmmm.... I guess there are lots of definitions of good girls... I think everyone is just happy that my tattoo is somplace that is covered by clothing, that my hair dye is no longer green coolaid like it used to be, that I am constantly trying to quit smoking and when I drink with the boys these days, I am usually accompanied by my husband.

To catch up on the conversations- I got into engineering because I hated forestry (that would be the short version)

Our house chores and stuff usually isn't divided evenly... but I think we have reasons for that. I have major ocd and have to do most of everything myself to be happy, additionally, when the hubby deploys, it's easier if your already doing all the work and keeping track of everything yourself because then I don't need to figure out any additional responsibilites. He helps me when I ask and has recently been pitching in a lot more with stuff like the laundry and animals becuase of everything that I had going on. I usually do most of the cooking on Sunday and the meals are planned out on the side of the fridge so that he can heat up the right item if he gets home first. We don't have any kids so that makes our house different from a lot of other people our age... I do get frustrated with how things work when he asks me if I've taken care of something, and often hearing myself saying to my husband "it's not like I'm sitting on my @ss eating bonbons all day" (I'm still working on the bitterness of this last move and having to leave someplace where I was feeling successful in my life in so many ways to start over at doing stuff that I hate, can you tell?)

Awesome story Mary- no matter what rewards you get, the feeling of acceptance is always the best, and paves the way for future women to follow.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

Awesome story Mary!!



Mary :) said:


> It was a unique trip. I was travelling alone and knew very little German. I got to the motel on my own. I got to the offices on my own. The tradeshow day was most interesting. Two young engineers who spoke English picked me up at the motel and took me with them. We had to ride a train to the tradeshow - it was about a 2-hour trip. We got to the show and split up and walked the show for a few hours. We met back late in the afternoon. It was a tradition to walk to a local tavern and drink beers, then travel back home. I went into this old-time German bar with a group of about 15 German men. They ranged in age from 20's to 50's. I know I was the first female ever to be included in that trade show tradition. We drank beer. There were a couple plates of appetizers. They mostly spoke German, so I didn't know all of what they said. But, I knew they were acknowledging me as unique. I'll never forget that time when I shared a couple of beers with a bunch of German engineers. If they were not nice to me, I couldn't tell because of the language barrier. And I didn't care. Some of them actually acknowledged that I had done something special and congratulated me.


That's awesome!!! I have found that some foreign cultures are less resistant towards change or more inclined to 'accept' something different. I have been quite surprised by the culture difference between Michigan and Florida ... not a foreign culture entirely, but in some ways it is quite different. FMJR have commented on a number of different things that are different - overall, I would say people in MI are much more accepting and open to 'diversity' than people that we knew in Florida.

That's a good thing ... since I am so very different!! 

JR


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## maryannette (Jul 18, 2009)

engineergurl said:


> Awesome story Mary- no matter what rewards you get, the feeling of acceptance is always the best, and paves the way for future women to follow.





> Now *that* is one to tell the grandkids. Very cool, Mary. Very cool.


I think my most cherished accomplishments have been changing attitudes, not solving engineering problems. I share that story occasionally. My daughter is starting college next month in engineering, so I hope that we who have paved the way make the road a little smoother.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 20, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> I think my most cherished accomplishments have been changing attitudes, not solving engineering problems. I share that story occasionally. My daughter is starting college next month in engineering, so I hope that we who have paved the way make the road a little smoother.


Go Mary! I have daughters and nieces too - and my career is just about the same length as yours.

I've enjoyed seeing how admin assts in my office (over the years) took delight in saying things like, "Let me see if the engineer handling that is available - yes, she said you can go right in."


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 20, 2009)

So...what is your equivalent to the male biz casual uniform - khakis and a golf shirt? I find it doesn't translate directly (I think we look more casual than they do in that).

I'll go with (washable) dress pants and a tailored shirt usually -- nice, but not so nice that I look ridiculous making site visits. In the winter, I'll throw a blazer or cardigan over. And although the men wear jeans at times, I'll only go with jet black ones.


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## maryannette (Jul 20, 2009)

When I passed the PE, I was working in a manufacturing location. Very few people there cared if I passed the PE. It was my ticket out of that hell hole. The morning after I got my results, the front desk receptionist and an admin brought balloons and flowers for me.  I thought that was incredible.


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## Fluvial (Jul 20, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> I've enjoyed seeing how admin assts in my office (over the years) took delight in saying things like, "Let me see if the engineer handling that is available - yes, she said you can go right in."


I've noticed this too. The non-technical ladies in the office tended to be very proud of the technical women. I've met several over the years who would have made excellent engineers or CAD designers, just weren't ever encouraged to do so.


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## maryannette (Jul 20, 2009)

I wear casual "Dockers" style pants - mostly black, but some tan. I wear the typical golf-style shirt, occasionally something a little dressier. I go in the field with a safety vest, boots, and a hard hat, so I seldom wear anything very nice. A blazer sometimes, but I wear a windbreaker jacket to the field instead of the blazer.


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## Fluvial (Jul 20, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> So...what is your equivalent to the male biz casual uniform - khakis and a golf shirt? I find it doesn't translate directly (I think we look more casual than they do in that).
> I'll go with (washable) dress pants and a tailored shirt usually -- nice, but not so nice that I look ridiculous making site visits. In the winter, I'll throw a blazer or cardigan over. And although the men wear jeans at times, I'll only go with jet black ones.


I do this too, but I've also had sucess with longer dresses - kind of like teachers wear - and flats.


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## maryannette (Jul 20, 2009)

When I worked in a factory building, I wore dressier clothes. At one time, I wore a skirt suit with high heels every day. Whew. Not any more.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 20, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> When I worked in a factory building, I wore dressier clothes. At one time, I wore a skirt suit with high heels every day. Whew. Not any more.


My husband is at a defense contractor with lots of women execs and managers. There the power female uniform is expensive skirted suits and 4" heels...even though that clothing is rare in our community.

I can wear whatever I want, but I work with the public alot and prefer the reaction that slightly more professional clothing gets. It's worth getting good clothes muddy or splashed with concrete now and then....it washes out! Every now and then I'm sad that I live in pants because I have really nice legs, but....I hate pantyhose too.


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## maryannette (Jul 21, 2009)

Doesn't everybody HATE pantyhose? The younger girls go bare-legs with dresses and skirts. My legs are not what they used to be, so I don't care that I live in pants.


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## Fluvial (Jul 21, 2009)

I think you're right, Mary. I've had younger ladies tell me that pantyhose are "old hat" and they're not needed anymore. Suits me!


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## TouchDown (Jul 21, 2009)

Mary :) said:


> Doesn't everybody HATE pantyhose? The younger girls go bare-legs with dresses and skirts. My legs are not what they used to be, so I don't care that I live in pants.


I know I do, it really bunches up and makes my leg hair itch.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 21, 2009)

^True, but what else am I supposed to wear when I prance around my house singing show tunes?


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## Supe (Jul 21, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^True, but what else am I supposed to wear when I prance around my house singing show tunes?


I don't think it matters, as long as you're using jazz hands. :f_115m_e45d7af:


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## Fluvial (Jul 21, 2009)

My hubby actually wore a pair of tights a few years ago as part of an Elf costume. He was the biggest Elf I've ever seen. I don't know where they got tights in his size.


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## engineergurl (Jul 21, 2009)

to prevent a hijacking....

when i first started my current job, i was in hose, heels and skirts every day since i was in the office setting up databases and reading the legal documents pertaining to what I was enforcing... then one day my boss said, if you want to get in the field you can dress for it tomorrow. I replyed, I got my boots and pants in my truck. I have worn my jeans, steel toes, vest, glasses and hard hat every day since.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 22, 2009)

OK - I'll start a new one.

How important is it for teen girls to be taught techy topics by female role models?

My daughter (13) is in a tech camp this week and ALL the guest speakers/presenters are women. I'm glad there's some, but I'm not comfortable eliminating males from consideration. I did tell the teacher who pulled the whole thing together that I was a civil engineer and knew all sorts of techy women....she almost hyperventilated- she was so excited! I started a list of contacts for her and just felt compelled to include quite a few men -along with all the women.

I have some interest in trying to plan a similar more engineering-focused camp for next summer (via ASCE) but I'm not inclined to restrict students or presenters to female only. Thoughts?

PS. Interestingly - my daughter's favorite topic from camp (so far) was a stop at the college fashion design studio where they did laser body scans and got to see that design is mostly done by computer now. The take away she got was, "If you create beautiful clothes, you're an artist. If you create beautiful clothes that sell well, then you're a fashion designer." I told her to note that many careers which used to be non-technical now require proficiency with math and computers.

It was too late to add in a visit to one of my employer's construction projects for this year's camp - but I did send in an invite for anyone interested in a tour to contact my office directly to arrange a tour after camp -- we have a nice road reconstruction project well underway.


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## TouchDown (Jul 22, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> I told her to note that many careers which used to be non-technical now require proficiency with math and computers.


As for all female speakers, I don't know if it HAS to be that way, but I see why they might want it to be that way... No real strong opinion. People can get inspiration from all kinds of places.

Proficiency with math and computers. Undeniably, computers are a permanent fixture in our society.


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## maryannette (Jul 22, 2009)

I think it is okay for a girls' tech camp to have only female speakers. It creates an atmosphere where girls may be able to learn better. I might recommend an all female forum for a young girl who might be intimidated. But, any girl who is considering engineering as a career needs to be exposed to the real world, which is mostly men. If you can only function in an artificial environment, you will never make it in the real world.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 22, 2009)

> But, any girl who is considering engineering as a career needs to be exposed to the real world, which is mostly men.


That was the situation my wife found herself in when starting grad school, and now in her post doc. She is an excellent up and coming researcher (her boss' words, not mine) but still can't shake the feeling of being the token white girl.

It helps that she is a tom boy, and 'one of the guys'. But its still weird for her sometimes.


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## maryannette (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm trying to remember if I ever felt like I didn't belong and I think the only time was in college classes. I have 4 brothers and I think that helped a lot. A lot of times I fit in better with guys. I think it is a very complex thing to develop a level of comfort where you work. It's not just a male-female thing. Age and personality play a big part, too. I think the way you treat people is important. And you have to be genuine. You can't be somebody you're not.


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## TXengrChickPE (Jul 23, 2009)

Wow, I just read this whole thread... I've only been gone about a month, but I missed a lot!

Mary, you have some awesome stories!

As for how I got into engineering, I was good at Math and Science in high school so the guidance counselor said I should go into Engineering. I had no clue what engineers did... but at 17, that's what I decided I was going to be "when I grew up". I was another female who didn't know until I got to college that girls weren't supposed to be good at Math and Science... as a female in engineering, it was recommended that I take a course about Women in science and engineering as one of my required humanities classes. I almost failed the class because the instructor wanted us to write/talk about how hard being a woman in a male-dominated field was...


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