# April 2019



## Mercy (Nov 22, 2018)

I plan on taking the exam on April 2019. I bought most of the references suggested in this forum (thanks everyone for your input). I studied for a few hours today and I am already having second thoughts.

Lord have mercy


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## Invisible (Nov 23, 2018)

Thats pretty early. I wish I started this early for my Oct 2018 exam too. Lol.


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## DLD PE (Nov 26, 2018)

You're getting a good early start, but you'll find out how time flies so use it wisely.  

If I had to do it over again, I would go through ALL of the NCEES practice problems first, and quickly.  Don't get stuck.  Work them out as quickly as you can and use the solution manual for problems you can't solve (at this point it should be most of them so don't feel bad).  The point of this is to give you feel for the wording of actual exam problems and what you are getting yourself into.  It's very common to get discouraged from time to time.  Don't let that stop you.  Going through the practice problems and solving each one step by step (even when looking at the solutions) will give you momentum and a sense of accomplishment.  If the solutions don't make sense (also common), look them up on these boards.  Almost every question is covered by at least one person on these boards (that's how bad the solution manual is explaining these sometimes).  

I would also recommend working a full, timed practice exam as soon as you can.  For you, middle of January at the latest.  Expect to do awful the first time but don't panic.  Keep track of the problems/topics you struggle with and focus on those second (I would recommend making the NEC and protection problems your first priority).  

You're much better off doing what I mentioned in the first paragraph your first month of studying than, let's say, focusing and studying on 1 or two topics, re-reading and not understanding and a month later you realize you had not worked many problems and now you're 4 months away and in panic mode.  It's important to read up on concepts and understand the material.  That's where an online review course can really help.  There's also plenty of discussion on these boards and YouTube and other websites if you don't want to enroll in a review course.


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## Mercy (Nov 26, 2018)

Thank you for the suggestions.

I wanted to start studying a lil bit early because my time is limited due to work and family obligations. I created an aggressive study schedule for Dec. I figured to take advantage of school breaks and downtime at work (hopefully). 

I just signed up for the test today, no turning back now.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Dec 4, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> If I had to do it over again, I would go through ALL of the NCEES practice problems first, and quickly.  Don't get stuck.  Work them out as quickly as you can and use the solution manual for problems you can't solve (at this point it should be most of them so don't feel bad).  The point of this is to give you feel for the wording of actual exam problems and what you are getting yourself into.


The NCEES practice problems aren't really representative of the exam any more. Which is incredibly obnoxious. 

Find protection problems elsewhere. The ones in the practice from NCEES are levels below what's actually on the exam these days.


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## RadioBox (Dec 4, 2018)

LyceeFruit said:


> The NCEES practice problems aren't really representative of the exam any more. Which is incredibly obnoxious.
> 
> Find protection problems elsewhere. The ones in the practice from NCEES are levels below what's actually on the exam these days.


Listen to these words of wisdom. lyceefruit speaks the truth.


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## a4u2fear (Dec 4, 2018)

RadioBox said:


> Listen to these words of wisdom. lyceefruit speaks the truth.


I would, disagree to an extent.


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## DLD PE (Dec 4, 2018)

Lycee where would you recommend getting practice protection problems from?


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## LyceeFruit PE (Dec 4, 2018)

a4u2fear said:


> I would, disagree to an extent.


I'm curious as to why? I've taken the exam a few times (more than I really want to). And the first time, the practice problems were fairly representative of the exam. But over time, the exam problems have gone next level (or 12) and the practice book provided by NCEES only had 5(ish) updated problems but still isn't on the same level as the exam. 



MEtoEE said:


> Lycee where would you recommend getting practice protection problems from?


I wish I had a recommendation for you (&amp;myself). I've been working off of older guides from coworkers so they aren't representative of the new exam (it was shifted to 9 sections from 10 for 2018. And then the NEC/NESC updates as well)


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## knight1fox3 (Dec 4, 2018)

LyceeFruit said:


> The NCEES practice problems aren't really representative of the exam any more. Which is incredibly obnoxious.


How is this obnoxious? I think you're missing the actual point of what an exam is intended for. If the administering exam body provided practice exams that were completely representative of the actual exam, then what would be the point of taking it? The point of the content of the PE exam it test the minimal competency of an engineer in their respective field. The NCEES practice exams are representative of the format of the exam, not the content.


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## Szar (Dec 4, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> How is this obnoxious? I think you're missing the actual point of what an exam is intended for. If the administering exam body provided exams that were completely representative of the actual exam, then what would be the point of taking it? The point of the content of the exam it test the minimal competency of an engineer in their respective field. The NCEES practice exams are representative of the format of the exam, not the content.


Shut up and mail me my participation trophy!


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## LyceeFruit PE (Dec 4, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> How is this obnoxious? I think you're missing the actual point of what an exam is intended for. If the administering exam body provided practice exams that were completely representative of the actual exam, then what would be the point of taking it? The point of the content of the PE exam it test the minimal competency of an engineer in their respective field. The NCEES practice exams are representative of the format of the exam, not the content.


I don't think it needs to be completely representative of the actual exam. But close to the same level would be nice. Because in 2015, the two were close. But in 2018, not so much. And trying to find reference material that assists me in getting to that level is proving to be difficult. I do not have anyone in my office who has recently taken the newer exam to get idea from, yes I have looked through this forum but found it after I've taken the exam.


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## a4u2fear (Dec 5, 2018)

I thought the NCEES practice exam is the best "representation" of the exam.  I don't know about everyone else, and I'm unsure if I'll pass, but a large portion of how well I will do on the exam is because I have a lot of experience in the field in this industry.  Without it, I would have to believe most people would do poorly.  The exam is difficult and rightfully so that it hopefully removes incompetent people from passing; or giving you a practice exam that would be so close to the exam everyone would pass.

When i failed in April, I walked out feeling like a no/maybe on passing.  And it wasn't by much.  So i studied my butt off for 3 months and now in the (i'm hoping) yes/maybe.  That's what they are looking for.

My only complaint with the exam is I feel like there are a large number of questions that don't properly evaluate your understanding on the principles.  Some books, especially Wildi, in my opinion have great practice examples that are fairly simple and really show your understanding of the principles and how things work.  Some on the exam are so blatantly way out there that it is irritating.  But, I guess they need some hard ones and some curve balls


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## Phenomenon083 (Dec 5, 2018)

a4u2fear said:


> But, I guess they need some hard ones and some curve balls


If the exam is intended to determine the minimum competency of an examinee then why would you throw hard ones or curve balls? I suggest don't grade on those hard ones, NCEES can use those as a research purpose.


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## DLD PE (Dec 5, 2018)

If they are determining minimum compentency then they are seriously missing the mark, IMO.  I know "electrical power" is a very wide field, but I know many PEs I don't trust to go by their drawings.  Often they need to go through many changes just to get the electrical gear to work.  Sometimes it doesn't even meet code.  On the flip side, I've known designers with no degree and no chance of getting their PE who are very competent and knowledgable in their field.  

In this business you can't afford to rush through and churn out drawings that are incomplete and inaccurate, or worse, don't meet code or pose hazards if built to spec.  You have to take your time and be very careful and if at all possible have other people review your work before signing off on drawings.  So why does NCEES put together exams where you have to rush through problems?  And some of the questions are so far in left field I don't see how it's supposed to identify competency.


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## RadioBox (Dec 5, 2018)

At the end of the day it's just a cash grab.


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## Phenomenon083 (Dec 5, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> And some of the questions are so far in left field I don't see how it's supposed to identify competency


On top of that they ask you to solve those problems in 6 mins!


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## a4u2fear (Dec 5, 2018)

Phenomenon083 said:


> On top of that they ask you to solve those problems in 6 mins!


The NEC/NESC questions are the longest.  Some of them are quick look up and got the answer, others are calculating which is tough becuase you spend minutes just getting to the right section sometimes.


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## kshitijs13 (Dec 5, 2018)

Also, its too vast a subject. Its like 10 or 12 courses all into that one exam. I hope NCEES can specialize it further at least like Machines &amp; Controls, Protection &amp; Power Systems. Create 2 or 3 different exams out of it. Thats how it is real world (profession) too I feel.


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## chart94 PE (Dec 6, 2018)

a4u2fear said:


> I thought the NCEES practice exam is the best "representation" of the exam.  I don't know about everyone else, and I'm unsure if I'll pass, but a large portion of how well I will do on the exam is because I have a lot of experience in the field in this industry.  Without it, I would have to believe most people would do poorly.  The exam is difficult and rightfully so that it hopefully removes incompetent people from passing; or giving you a practice exam that would be so close to the exam everyone would pass.
> 
> When i failed in April, I walked out feeling like a no/maybe on passing.  And it wasn't by much.  So i studied my butt off for 3 months and now in the (i'm hoping) yes/maybe.  That's what they are looking for.
> 
> My only complaint with the exam is I feel like there are a large number of questions that don't properly evaluate your understanding on the principles.  Some books, especially Wildi, in my opinion have great practice examples that are fairly simple and really show your understanding of the principles and how things work.  Some on the exam are so blatantly way out there that it is irritating.  But, I guess they need some hard ones and some curve balls


Idk I disagree that without field experience you do poorly. I have been out of school for one year and took the PE in october and passed. Really I think the classes I took (in college) helped with the concepts and taking 8 different practice exams helped me. Don’t get me wrong, field experience probably makes some of the codes and stuff easier, but I think for the most part studying the NCEES practice exam and maybe taking a class on protection systems, would help. Idk it’s just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt because different study styles work for different people. Either way that test was a beast and totally felt horrible after it lol  All the best!


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## tmntjmc (Dec 7, 2018)

chart94 said:


> Idk I disagree that without field experience you do poorly. I have been out of school for one year and took the PE in october and passed. Really I think the classes I took (in college) helped with the concepts and taking 8 different practice exams helped me. Don’t get me wrong, field experience probably makes some of the codes and stuff easier, but I think for the most part studying the NCEES practice exam and maybe taking a class on protection systems, would help. Idk it’s just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt because different study styles work for different people. Either way that test was a beast and totally felt horrible after it lol  All the best!


I took it Oct 2017 and Oct 2018 and failed both times, now looking to take it in April again, and again, until I pass. 

What practice exams would you suggest? I know there are thousands of different perspectives on advice. I've taken the Electrical PE review course online and I thought it did help but I can't muster the justification to spend another $$ on a review course since my job wouldn't pay for anything even if I pass. 

This go around I'm just going to focus on doing sample problems over and over, not really learning the theory.


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## DLD PE (Dec 7, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> I took it Oct 2017 and Oct 2018 and failed both times, now looking to take it in April again, and again, until I pass.
> 
> What practice exams would you suggest? I know there are thousands of different perspectives on advice. I've taken the Electrical PE review course online and I thought it did help but I can't muster the justification to spend another $$ on a review course since my job wouldn't pay for anything even if I pass.
> 
> This go around I'm just going to focus on doing sample problems over and over, not really learning the theory.


You need to learn the theory and concepts.  If you get sample problems wrong, find out why.  Go to your review class notes or Youtube and try to learn as much as you can from the topic.  That's my suggestion anyway.  

I'm taking it for the second time in April.  I took Zach Stone's Electrical PE Review course.  If you paid for 2 months or more for the course, it states in his website that he offers a refund for people who fail and decide to re-take the exam (but it has to be the next exam).  I e-mailed Zach the day the results came back but I haven't heard from him.  Usually he's very quick in responding.

*Edit:*  I just got an e-mail from him (looks like an automated response).  He wants to know if you passed or not so be on the lookout for this if you are a student of his.


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## chart94 PE (Dec 7, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> I took it Oct 2017 and Oct 2018 and failed both times, now looking to take it in April again, and again, until I pass.
> 
> What practice exams would you suggest? I know there are thousands of different perspectives on advice. I've taken the Electrical PE review course online and I thought it did help but I can't muster the justification to spend another $$ on a review course since my job wouldn't pay for anything even if I pass.
> 
> This go around I'm just going to focus on doing sample problems over and over, not really learning the theory.


I used the complex imaginary exams volumes 1-4 and then Spin-up exams and the NCEES practice exam. The spin-up are easy but help with the speed of processing simple formulas. Complex was a tad harder. For those I made formula sheets and tabulated notes to help me pick up speed for the questions and also writing it down helps with memorization. Honestly, the more practice exams the better as I believe if you do tons of problems you will start to understand better and learn to recognize what the questions are looking for and not be distracted by fake data etc.


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## chart94 PE (Dec 7, 2018)

I mean my personality, I learn best by doing and seeing examples. So it may not work for everyone.


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## DLD PE (Dec 7, 2018)

chart94 said:


> I used the complex imaginary exams volumes 1-4 and then Spin-up exams and the NCEES practice exam. The spin-up are easy but help with the speed of processing simple formulas. Complex was a tad harder. For those I made formula sheets and tabulated notes to help me pick up speed for the questions and also writing it down helps with memorization. Honestly, the more practice exams the better as I believe if you do tons of problems you will start to understand better and learn to recognize what the questions are looking for and not be distracted by fake data etc.


I think this is what I"m going to do this time....work more practice problems.  I have all the tools (CI, Graffeo, Eng Pro Guides) in addition to NCEES so it's just a matter of using my time wisely.  I'm also going to re-organize my notes/references.


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## tmntjmc (Dec 7, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> You need to learn the theory and concepts.  If you get sample problems wrong, find out why.  Go to your review class notes or Youtube and try to learn as much as you can from the topic.  That's my suggestion anyway.
> 
> I'm taking it for the second time in April.  I took Zach Stone's Electrical PE Review course.  If you paid for 2 months or more for the course, it states in his website that he offers a refund for people who fail and decide to re-take the exam (but it has to be the next exam).  I e-mailed Zach the day the results came back but I haven't heard from him.  Usually he's very quick in responding.
> 
> *Edit:*  I just got an e-mail from him (looks like an automated response).  He wants to know if you passed or not so be on the lookout for this if you are a student of his.


I literally just saw your response and shot him an email all but 5 min ago. We will see what he says I did use his site for 2 months so hopefully he lets me have access again for the April exam.


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## DLD PE (Dec 7, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> I literally just saw your response and shot him an email all but 5 min ago. We will see what he says I did use his site for 2 months so hopefully he lets me have access again for the April exam.


Keep checking your e-mails.  I'm sure you'll see something from him soon.


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## chart94 PE (Dec 7, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> I think this is what I"m going to do this time....work more practice problems.  I have all the tools (CI, Graffeo, Eng Pro Guides) in addition to NCEES so it's just a matter of using my time wisely.  I'm also going to re-organize my notes/references.


I def recommend organizing your notes. I made my own glossary and corresponding tabs for it. I only used that and my NEC, NFPA70 for the practice. For every question I got wrong I noted the type I.e was it motors, protection etc. I also did obsess with WHY I got it wrong and would make note of the process. Then at the end I would go thru all the ones I got wrong again and try to solve them again and again. Obviously let some time pass or rotate the exam so the wrong problems you are redoing you haven’t seen in a while.


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## tmntjmc (Dec 7, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> Keep checking your e-mails.  I'm sure you'll see something from him soon.


Will do. I wish the test was CBT because I already kinda wanna hit the books but I don't retain long term memory study material.. 

If it was CBT I would retake it in 1 month and brush up and add more study to what I already have and my references. 

I'm not sure what more I could add to my references without adding unnecessary bulk..  

*Reference List*

What do you guys suggest to add to my references? I have 


The Electrical Engineer's Guide to Passing the Power PE Exam
A. S. Graffeo, PE

PE Electrical and Computer Engineering: Power Practice Exam
Ncees

NEC 2017 

NESC 2017

Ugly's Electrical References, 2017 Edition

FE Reference Book 

Multiple binders with tabs sections and sample questions


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## knight1fox3 (Dec 7, 2018)

^ and if it was CBT, you wouldn't be able to use any of your personal references. As I understand, once it goes CBT, there will be a single exam reference guide per discipline, similar in kind to the FE. Be careful what you wish for. :thumbs:


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## chart94 PE (Dec 7, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> Will do. I wish the test was CBT because I already kinda wanna hit the books but I don't retain long term memory study material..
> 
> If it was CBT I would retake it in 1 month and brush up and add more study to what I already have and my references.
> 
> I'm not sure what more I could add to my references without adding unnecessary bulk..


That’s why I think making notes while you take the practice exams helps. Let’s you know where you are lacking in resources and references.


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## tmntjmc (Dec 7, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> ^ and if it was CBT, you wouldn't be able to use any of your personal references. As I understand, once it goes CBT, there will be a single exam reference guide per discipline, similar in kind to the FE. Be careful what you wish for. :thumbs:


why wouldn't we be able to use reference books? I think if they made the test CBT we would just input our answers electronically but I don't see why that means we can't use reference books.. 

*BTW *Thank you guys for chatting with me during work lol. 

I work for the city but it's a slow day today, a somber day after the FAIL notice.


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## knight1fox3 (Dec 7, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> why wouldn't we be able to use reference books? I think if they made the test CBT we would just input our answers electronically but I don't see why that means we can't use reference books..


Because, once the PE exam goes CBT, it will become closed-book with only a single reference guide per what NCEES has indicated. Count me out for that! LOL


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## BirdGrave (Dec 7, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> Because, once the PE exam goes CBT, it will become closed-book with only a single reference guide per what NCEES has indicated. Count me out for that! LOL


Maybe that single reference guide will include, like, the entire text of the NEC?  I actually might prefer a situation where I could do a Ctrl F keyword search...


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## Phenomenon083 (Dec 7, 2018)

BirdGrave said:


> Maybe that single reference guide will include, like, the entire text of the NEC?  I actually might prefer a situation where I could do a Ctrl F keyword search...


This would be especially great for protection problems.


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## roy167 (Dec 7, 2018)

Does anyone know the PE exam is going Computer based?


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## BirdGrave (Dec 7, 2018)

roy167 said:


> Does anyone know the PE exam is going Computer based?


Sometime in 2021.


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## roy167 (Dec 7, 2018)

Oh that's quite a ways. I need not worry. If I don't get my PE within a year or so then I'm not going to take test anyway.


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## bdhlphcdh (Dec 10, 2018)

I was enrolled in Zach's course but was not able to sit for the exam.  I sent a couple of e-mails out to him as well and have not heard back.


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## EE2PE (Dec 18, 2018)

tmntjmc said:


> Will do. I wish the test was CBT because I already kinda wanna hit the books but I don't retain long term memory study material..
> 
> If it was CBT I would retake it in 1 month and brush up and add more study to what I already have and my references.
> 
> ...


I will definitely recommend adding Wildi. It is a really good resource for Rotating Machines and Electronic Devices.


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## ItsStudyTime! (Feb 17, 2019)

chart94 said:


> I def recommend organizing your notes. I made my own glossary and corresponding tabs for it. I only used that and my NEC, NFPA70 for the practice. For every question I got wrong I noted the type I.e was it motors, protection etc. I also did obsess with WHY I got it wrong and would make note of the process. Then at the end I would go thru all the ones I got wrong again and try to solve them again and again. Obviously let some time pass or rotate the exam so the wrong problems you are redoing you haven’t seen in a while.


I second this sentiment, and I quote it to give it more emphasis. I made my own  table of contents and organized my hand-taken notes and hand-written-out solutions into those tabbed sections in a binder that I assembled, then used as my primary resource during the exam. More details in my full write-up here, as well as a link to download my table of contents (which you should probably edit slightly based on the updates to NCEES topics list): Website Here


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