# 2nd TIme taking the PE Civil/Structural and still feel Stupid. I need help and guidance



## GoldenKnight87 (Mar 31, 2016)

I getting ready to sit for my PE April 2016 for the second time and I am beginning to get really worried that I may fail this exam again. I am looking for some guidance or advice on what to do to prepare myself for the second time around.

To give you some background. I have been for working for a transportation firm for 4 years right out of college designing bridge components and other miscellaneous  structures for my company. I work with a group of 14 structural engineers who all have their P.E./S.E. that come from very respectable institutions and had great success through their careers. Wanting to further my career and hopefully advancing through the ranks, I registered to take  my P.E. as soon as I qualified. Talking with my coworkers and other engineers around the office about the PE and how difficult it was, I got the consensus that it was a very manageable test...easy almost. My boss didn't crack open a book till a week before the exam when he took it and he passed easily. Not only that, everyone one in my department who took the PE, passed it on the first try. So with all that feed back I felt that this exam was something I can handle. Granted I know I needed to study my but off but I figured if I put the required work in, I should pass.

For the first time around, I took the School of PE, had the CERM, 6 minute solutions, and 2 NCEES practice exams. I studied around 15hrs a week for 3+ months on top of doing the SOPE.  Since this was my first time I didn't have a real direction or set study schedule to go by so I just worked problems from each section outlined in NCEES. I worked roughly 300 problems during that time. Up until the test I wasn't sure how I felt I would do on the exam due to uncertainty and from my results for the practice exam.

I sat for my 1st PE in OCT 2015 (Civil/Structural) and I never felt more unprepared in my life. The morning was noticeably harder than the practice exams I took and the afternoon completely destroyed my confidence. Still, I worked the problems that I knew and made the best of it. I finished the morning with 15mins to spare thinking I got 30/40 right. The afternoon unfortunately, I completely ran out of time and had to guess on an entire third of it. Walking out of the exam I felt horrible, full of self doubt and uncertainty. I couldn't believe how unprepared I was for this exam given how much I studied. As I suspected....I failed miserably (49/80). I felt completely defeated and worthless. This was the first standardized/national exam that I have ever failed and it completely shook me at the core. Not only that, I didn't know how to face my coworkers tell them the news. Well sure enough they found out and life hasn't been the same since. When I had to tell my supervisors the result, I got a response that I wasn't expecting.....confusion and disappointment. They were perplexed on how I could fail...and by so much. "Did you even study?, Did you work Hard? How did this happen?" Those were the questions being bombarded at me. What made it worse was that I was the only one in my department to fail the exam. Since then, I'm treated as a outcast and have the reputation as "the guy that failed".

Wanting to prove them wrong to show it was a fluke, I signed up to take the April 2016 Exam. I went all out this time. I got the New CERM, SERM, School of PE retake course, 15 practice exams from different authors, Book of solved problems and many other practice materials. I religiously studied every day from January for at least 4+ hours a day doing practice problems and studying theory and focusing on my weak areas. Well here comes the part where I need guidance. I have taken 12 of my 15 practice tests and haven't gotten higher than a 65% on them, which in my opinion is failing. I don't understand how after so much extra work I have put into this, I am still failing. I feel like a incompetent idiot that doesn't deserve to practice engineering. I don't know what else to do. My main struggle seems to be the afternoon section. It is like a brick wall of knowledge that I cannot penetrate no matter what subject I study or what theory I review. It is so frustrating and I am lost.

Does anyone have any advice for 2nd timers or what I can do in the coming weeks before the exam. I feel that I have plateaued knowledge wise and my best just isn't good enough and it will never be good enough. I didn't mean to go off on such a emotional rant but I have no where else to go or what to do. Any direction or help is appreciated


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## thekzieg (Mar 31, 2016)

@GoldenKnight87 First of all, your coworkers sound like huge dicks. Fuck those guys for making you feel like shit. This exam is H.A.R.D. and they're all well past it now and in no place to talk about it.

Second of all, you are not an incompetent idiot, you just have the yips. Maybe take a couple hours and go through the exam specification and make a list of all of the things you DO know. It might be more than you think right now. Remember, you don't have to know _everything_ for this exam, but you do need to know what's on the exam spec.

Make sure you tab your books - all of the tables and equations that you've used for the practice exams. 

If there's a type of problem that kicks your butt repeatedly (for me it was sizing foundations) take the time to write out the steps for a generic problem. It'll help cement it in your head. And you can take all your note pages with you in a binder to help give you peace of mind. "Oh yeah! step one is ___"

Guaranteed there will be a few problems on the exam that just seem unsolvable. They might be. Make an educated guess and move on. If you have time, come back to them. But don't spin your wheels wasting time on one really hard problem when there are three or four quick and easy problems waiting for you!

Don't let this test define you or your worth. Standardized exams are a bitch, and nothing in life prepares your brain for 8 straight hours of hard mental exertion. BUT you now have leg up knowing what to expect in the exam room. You have undoubtedly already learned from your past mistakes, and all your studying isn't wasted.

Keep your chin up, and go ahead and tell your coworkers (mentally) to fuck themselves any time they make you feel like shit.


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## knight1fox3 (Mar 31, 2016)

thekzieg PE said:


> First of all, your coworkers sound like huge dicks. Fuck those guys for making you feel like shit. This exam is H.A.R.D. and they're all well past it now and in no place to talk about it.
> 
> Keep your chin up, and go ahead and tell your coworkers (mentally) to fuck themselves any time they make you feel like shit.


Aaaaaand that's why we keep her around here.  But she's not wrong either.  :thumbs:


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Mar 31, 2016)

thekzieg PE said:


> @GoldenKnight87 First of all, your coworkers sound like huge dicks. Fuck those guys for making you feel like shit. This exam is H.A.R.D. and they're all well past it now and in no place to talk about it.
> 
> Second of all, you are not an incompetent idiot, you just have the yips. Maybe take a couple hours and go through the exam specification and make a list of all of the things you DO know. It might be more than you think right now. Remember, you don't have to know _everything_ for this exam, but you do need to know what's on the exam spec.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree with this.  I do believe that some years the tests are easier than others.  I was discussing the exam with a buddy of mine last night. His exam experience was 180 degrees opposite from mine.  He thought it was super easy, I thought it was incredibly difficult.  We both passed, but if you got down to the nitty gritty of the experience his was WAAAY different because the exam was being run differently back when he took it. There is no question that the test is different than it was even just a few years ago, and so is the bar for passing.  Sorry that you work with such jerks.  F 'em.


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## matt267 PE (Mar 31, 2016)

thekzieg PE said:


> First of all, your coworkers sound like huge dicks. Fuck those guys for making you feel like shit.


:appl:


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## GoldenKnight87 (Mar 31, 2016)

Appreciate the feedback. I have made notes of types of problems but some how the exams ask it in such a way that I either make simple mistake or I completely don't know how to do it. I feel its a knowledge barrier that I cant break....been spinning my wheels for a few weeks on trying to understand these afternoon problems but its discouraging. Anyone know ways of at least boosting self confidence during exam time. My emotions tend to get the better of me


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## khusaibi_PE (Apr 1, 2016)

Sorry to say but your co-workers sound like big league assholes


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## thekzieg (Apr 1, 2016)

@GoldenKnight87 two more cents: My second exam, while mostly different than than the first, DID have at least two questions that were IDENTICAL to my first exam, so those were easy points. 

I would recommend reviewing the code lookup questions that you remember from your first exam and tabbing them for quick access. 

Honestly, having taken the exam once already gives you a leg up this time around. 

Finally, keep in mind that there are plenty of great engineers who have struggled with passing this exam. You aren't alone!


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## Phatso86 (Apr 6, 2016)

Bro, i'm not buying that you truly prepared for the PE.

first of all, over 50% of test takers pass, that automatically means you're at the bottom half.

Secondly, the exam tests were RIDICULOUS at how easy it was. I did stress about it when i took it (1st exam in 2011) but it was like studying for a calculus exam and taking a pre-algebra exam instead. That is how easy the test is in comparison to the study material.

I'm not putting you down or trying to, i am simply mentioning that I do not believe you truly studied like you should have. I remember the guy next to me when I took my civil test clearly said "it's rough, this is my second time taking it....... no, i didn't study everything"


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## Phatso86 (Apr 6, 2016)

GoldenKnight87 said:


> .... I studied around 15hrs a week for 3+ months on top of doing the SOPE.....  I worked roughly 300 problems during that time.


Bro, that equates to 180+ hours for "roughly" 300 questions.

That is less than 2 questions per hour. Your co-workers are NOT assholes, they are as dumbfounded as i am to know that you studied close to 200 hours and failed an easy exam. I am sure you would agree that any of your college course exams were more difficult than the PE.


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## knight1fox3 (Apr 6, 2016)




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## MetsFan (Apr 6, 2016)




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## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 7, 2016)

Well, at least we were able to dig up a bigger asshole than your co-workers.


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## GoldfishJack (Apr 7, 2016)

Phatso86 said:


> Bro, that equates to 180+ hours for "roughly" 300 questions.
> 
> That is less than 2 questions per hour. Your co-workers are NOT assholes, they are as dumbfounded as i am to know that you studied close to 200 hours and failed an easy exam. I am sure you would agree that any of your college course exams were more difficult than the PE.


Hard for me to keep shut about this, but I studied for about 250+ hours and I probably only worked on 500 problems. First of all, studying does not equate to working through problems ONLY. GoldenKnight probably had to learn or re-learn topics because not all of us are as gifted in our expertise in all of the different facets of civil engineering as you are. Did I spend 250+ hours working on 500 problems? No, I spent most of that time studying the concepts which is the point of this exam. To test your knowledge on the concepts, not just plug and chug. Secondly, some people either do not test well or let the stress get the better of them. GoldenKnight probably has been stressing about this thinking of the assholes in the office that would be condescending towards him if he failed. Third, who are you the study police? The one who determines whether someone is worthy of passing this exam? Why don't we all bow down to your almighty, you belittling prick. 

/rant


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## liz28 (Apr 11, 2016)

You are not alone!  I am getting ready to take the exam for the THIRD time this April.  The only bonus is that my coworkers are quite supportive, and assured me that they already know I have the knowledge base and see me on the same level as other PE's in the office, and this is just a stupid test.  Remember when most of your coworkers took it, it was part of a more simple SE, meaning they didn't need to know ANY of the morning topics we have to know.

And I 100% agree that it comes down to understanding the wording/layout of the questions.  Reminding yourself to read through every single exception/loophole, max and min allowables, etc. in the code, because if there is one it WILL apply.  There is definitely a mindset you need to be in for their questions, and that is absolutely where I think I have struggled.  This go around I have been during almost purely practice test after practice test after practice test to get into the mindset.

This last week, I plan to take a couple nights to do a few problems that will be confidence boosters.  I've found for me, it's been a little better to review each problem as I do it, rather than do a large chunk and then review.  It is fresher in my mind the work that I did so I can figure out what I did wrong, and when you get it right it gives you a confidence boost as you go into the next problem.

Right now it's all about making sure your confidence is up for Friday!


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## MA_PE (Apr 11, 2016)

Golden:  Having taken the test once, you know what you're in for and the level of detail that the exam goes to.  you should''ve also received an analysis of your first test identifying areas that you needed to work on.  Obviously, your second study regime should have focused on these areas.  Depending on when your co-workers took the test, the exam was likely quite differnet from the current exam.

It's an open book test, so the knowledge is really in identifying the problem and recognizing which reference you need ot solve it.  Quite frankly, given your inital post I'm up oin the as to which person is the troll here you @GoldenKnight87 or @Phatso86.  If your concern is legitimate, then you need to focus on the direction given to you from the results of the first test and what you have gained by first exam taking experience.  Remember the intent of the test is demonstrate minimum competancy not superiority, so the exam is not created to be extremely hard but instead to test fundamental knowledge of the subject matter.  Good luck.


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## GoldenKnight87 (Apr 13, 2016)

Appreciate the responses. Im at the point that I have done all I can to prepare. I know that i have done a lot more this time around.  I just hope its enough. Standardized test have been a thorn in my side for years. It takes me longer than the average joe for a concept or theory to stick. I took my last practice tests this week and did all all i can.  I just pray that I can do enough just to pass.


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## Road Guy (Apr 14, 2016)

One thing that helped me on my 2nd (&amp; Final) try was if I looked at a problem and didn't immediately know how to solve it I skipped it and came back to it. I ended up with more than enough time at the end to finish up on the ones I skipped..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ranger88 (Apr 14, 2016)

Clear your mind.  We are always learning.  Anyone who forgets that they were the pupil is... irrelevant.  This is your journey and you are that much better for it. Regardless of the outcome you will be a better engineer because of this test experience. Good luck.  We all will need it


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## SE_FL (May 22, 2016)

GoldenKnight87 said:


> Appreciate the responses. Im at the point that I have done all I can to prepare. I know that i have done a lot more this time around.  I just hope its enough. Standardized test have been a thorn in my side for years. It takes me longer than the average joe for a concept or theory to stick. I took my last practice tests this week and did all all i can.  I just pray that I can do enough just to pass.


Apparently you prepared enough. Looks like I too scraped by for my civil structural. Are you going for the SE next?


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## pdids911 (Jun 9, 2016)

SE_FL said:


> Apparently you prepared enough. Looks like I too scraped by for my civil structural. Are you going for the SE next?


how do you know he passed?


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## SE_FL (Jun 10, 2016)

pdids911 said:


> how do you know he passed?


I hacked into his NCEES account and checked.

Or maybe he posted in another thread that he passed.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Jun 10, 2016)

pdids911 said:


> how do you know he passed?


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