# Get licensed in 2 disciplines?



## caley89 (May 30, 2015)

Does anyone here have 2 licenses? for example civil and mechanical. if so, can you share your story?

anyone else have thoughts on this?


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## knight1fox3 (May 30, 2015)

I believe there was a user on here by the name of "palvarez". I think he had like 3 or 4 of them because he worked at/owned an MEP firm. Which then tends to make sense of having multiple licenses.

On the other hand, taking that test so many times? :blink:


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## cupojoe PE PMP (May 30, 2015)

knight1fox3 said:


> On the other hand, taking that test so many times? :blink:


:suicide1:


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## caley89 (May 31, 2015)

knight1fox3 said:


> I believe there was a user on here by the name of "palvarez". I think he had like 3 or 4 of them because he worked at/owned an MEP firm. Which then tends to make sense of having multiple licenses.
> 
> On the other hand, taking that test so many times? :blink:




to impress potential employers, get a leg up in your career, learn more, etc


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## lundy (Jun 1, 2015)

I graduated civil and just passed the HVAC and Refrigeration test but currently I have no desire to put myself through another 5 months of no social life. One stamp is good enough for me right now :0


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## P-E (Jun 1, 2015)

mkallerud said:


> Does anyone here have 2 licenses? for example civil and mechanical. if so, can you share your story?
> 
> anyone else have thoughts on this?


I might go for fresh water and salt water this year.


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## caley89 (Jun 1, 2015)

power-engineer said:


> mkallerud said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone here have 2 licenses? for example civil and mechanical. if so, can you share your story?
> ...


-_-


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## Porter_ (Jun 3, 2015)

i'm a Mechanical Engineer and i passed both the Mechanical and Civil PE exams. i'm really happy i decided to take both exams, i feel like it really broadens my potential for job positions. on the Civil side of things my ultimate goal is to obtain an SE license. do you have any specific questions or are you just looking for general input on who has multi-discipline licenses?

edit: as mentioned above palvarez83 has multiple licenses; mechanical, civil, and electrical i believe. he's a cool dude and answered a lot of my questions when i started looking into it.


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## lundy (Jun 3, 2015)

Porter_ said:


> i'm a Mechanical Engineer and i passed both the Mechanical and Civil PE exams. i'm really happy i decided to take both exams, i feel like it really broadens my potential for job positions. on the Civil side of things my ultimate goal is to obtain an SE license. do you have any specific questions or are you just looking for general input on who has multi-discipline licenses?
> 
> edit: as mentioned above palvarez83 has multiple licenses; mechanical, civil, and electrical i believe. he's a cool dude and answered a lot of my questions when i started looking into it.


Do you use both of your stamps at your current employer?


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## Porter_ (Jun 3, 2015)

lundy said:


> Porter_ said:
> 
> 
> > i'm a Mechanical Engineer and i passed both the Mechanical and Civil PE exams. i'm really happy i decided to take both exams, i feel like it really broadens my potential for job positions. on the Civil side of things my ultimate goal is to obtain an SE license. do you have any specific questions or are you just looking for general input on who has multi-discipline licenses?
> ...








as you can see in WA it's a single license number with multiple Endorsements, so i only have a single 'stamp'. i haven't stamped any drawings yet with my current employer but the opportunity will come. i believe legally any licensed PE can stamp any engineering drawing (e.g. a mechanical PE can stamp electrical drawings,etc). it's up to the engineer to discern which drawings they're qualified to stamp.


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## caley89 (Jun 13, 2015)

Porter_ said:


> i'm a Mechanical Engineer and i passed both the Mechanical and Civil PE exams. i'm really happy i decided to take both exams, i feel like it really broadens my potential for job positions. on the Civil side of things my ultimate goal is to obtain an SE license. do you have any specific questions or are you just looking for general input on who has multi-discipline licenses?
> 
> edit: as mentioned above palvarez83 has multiple licenses; mechanical, civil, and electrical i believe. he's a cool dude and answered a lot of my questions when i started looking into it.




Not sure how it works in Washington, did you use the same degree as experience credit for both licenses?


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## Porter_ (Jun 15, 2015)

if i correctly understand what you're asking, i did not use my college degree as experience credit. I've had several years of structural design experience in the workplace so that's what i used for the CE exam application.


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## joeenv (Jun 15, 2015)

I work as environmental engineer in Washington, and passed both the Environmental and Chemical PE exams. For the environmental field, having both licenses is a definite plus as there is some crossover between the two disciplines. I agree with Porter that having the multiple license endorsement broadens your job potential, and am quite happy I did both (even though I had to promise my wife a Hawaii trip to get her buy-off on spending time studying for the Chemical PE!).


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## Joker (Apr 29, 2019)

What are the experience requirements? I am an Electrical Intern and want to get licensed in Mechanical:HVAC and Refridge after I get the Electrical. Do you need another 4 years?


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## ME_VT_PE (Apr 30, 2019)

Joker said:


> What are the experience requirements? I am an Electrical Intern and want to get licensed in Mechanical:HVAC and Refridge after I get the Electrical. Do you need another 4 years?


I think its another 6 years


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## RBHeadge PE (Apr 30, 2019)

Depends on the state, but I think you can have overlapping experience so long as the professional experience is in the correct discipline.


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## civilengapr2019 (May 14, 2019)

Does anyone on here have a Civil and Environmental license?  I am going for civil first but I am also thinking of getting the environmental one too and just wanted to hear anyone's thoughts to see if they recommend it.


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## civilenvi (May 16, 2019)

I have both, a Civil-WRE &amp; Environmental license and an Environmental license. Just for me, the Civil exam was easier than environmental exam. I registered the license as discipline of civil engineer in Washington DC, the civil discipline is not shown up on the certificate.


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## ME-PE (May 17, 2019)

Somewhat related - I have both a PE and PLS license.  I can tell you from personal experience, as well as knowing a couple other PE/PLS holders:  You will almost never get paid for both licenses.  The benefit to holding multiple PE licenses, or a dual license like the PE/PLS is that is simply broadens your skill set when seeking employment.

I'm sure there are dual license holders that are making more for having two licenses - it's just not going to be the norm.


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## gonecrawfishin (Jun 6, 2019)

In many states, there are no disciplines, only general PE licenses; NY is an example. Even in some states that issue discipline specific PE licenses, education law permits you to review and stamp anything you feel confident enough to understand and approve; MA is an example. It's mostly self regulated. 

In my case, I went to school for Mechanical Engineering, but worked under Electrical Engineers for many years. I took the Mechanical FE exam, and then the Power PE exam. I would now consider myself competent enough to stamp certain types of designs in either field, and even some civil design based on what I've learned in my work experience and continuing education. We're all always growing in our competency, especially 10+ years after you sat for some state exam. 

So, I recommend before sitting for many exams or submitting more applications, you read your state's education law to see if they support self enforcement of what disciplines you should or should not stamp.


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## Kyle C (Oct 29, 2021)

caley89 said:


> Does anyone here have 2 licenses? for example civil and mechanical. if so, can you share your story?
> 
> anyone else have thoughts on this?


I have Civil-Geotech PE and Electrical-Electronic, control and communication PE. And will take Fire Protection Engineer in 2022.
Like being said "I believe there was a user on here by the name of "palvarez". I think he had like 3 or 4 of them because he worked at/owned an MEP firm. Which then tends to make sense of having multiple licenses."
I do these in order to impress potential employer and potential clients and stamp if needed also it's fun to learn all disciplinary knowledges especially IC related part(that's why after preparing electrical power I chose to take ECC instead). I could learn to make your own circuit board and make toys for my son.


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## steel (Oct 29, 2021)

Kyle C said:


> I have Civil-Geotech PE and Electrical-Electronic, control and communication PE. And will take Fire Protection Engineer in 2022.
> Like being said "I believe there was a user on here by the name of "palvarez". I think he had like 3 or 4 of them because he worked at/owned an MEP firm. Which then tends to make sense of having multiple licenses."
> I do these in order to impress potential employer and potential clients and stamp if needed also it's fun to learn all disciplinary knowledges especially IC related part(that's why after preparing electrical power I chose to take ECC instead). I could learn to make your own circuit board and make toys for my son.


Isn't this only possible in states that license by discipline? For example, here in Pennsylvania, I don't believe it matters what discipline PE exam you take (civil or electrical, for example) because you're granted the same PE license from the state regardless. 

Now, there are ethical concerns with not practicing in an area you do not have expertise in, so that would be the biggest reason I see to take multiple PE exams.


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## RBHeadge PE (Nov 1, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Isn't this only possible in states that license by discipline? For example, here in Pennsylvania, I don't believe it matters what discipline PE exam you take (civil or electrical, for example) because you're granted the same PE license from the state regardless.


Yes, most States license this way. 
Once licensed it's up the individual engineer to make determination if they have the relevant training or experience to ethically serve as the EoR for a given project in that jurisdiction. They do not have to take another exam.
That's not to say that they can make unethical decisions and catch hell for it later.


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## Kyle C (Nov 16, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Isn't this only possible in states that license by discipline? For example, here in Pennsylvania, I don't believe it matters what discipline PE exam you take (civil or electrical, for example) because you're granted the same PE license from the state regardless.
> 
> Now, there are ethical concerns with not practicing in an area you do not have expertise in, so that would be the biggest reason I see to take multiple PE exams.


Very true. I’m working in a engineering consulting company, and holding also international code council Master Code Professional Cert, the company is originally a geotechnical engineering consulting company and still doing it, I was helping with geotech before and then couple of years ago start performing code reviews peer review and code inspection. And recent years also helping MEP design team and working on new fab construction site. And I studied power and feels like it applies mostly for power plant and transmission section instead of control system, so I studied control system engineer PE and electronic control communication PE and feels them very related to this new site work. I simply just want to understand what I’m doing and try to do a better job. Every discipline is related if you dig into it. And knowing the principle of design and code would help you make better judgement.


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## steel (Nov 16, 2021)

Kyle C said:


> Very true. I’m working in a engineering consulting company, and holding also international code council Master Code Professional Cert, the company is originally a geotechnical engineering consulting company and still doing it, I was helping with geotech before and then couple of years ago start performing code reviews peer review and code inspection. And recent years also helping MEP design team and working on new fab construction site. And I studied power and feels like it applies mostly for power plant and transmission section instead of control system, so I studied control system engineer PE and electronic control communication PE and feels them very related to this new site work. I simply just want to understand what I’m doing and try to do a better job. Every discipline is related if you dig into it. And knowing the principle of design and code would help you make better judgement.


There is of course the ethical requirement that a licensed professional only practice within their area of competence. Thus, if you took the PE exam in control systems, you can't ethically perform geotechnical engineering services.

Legal, yes. Ethical, maybe.


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## DLD PE (Nov 16, 2021)

What most PE certifications anyone has ever gotten? Curious.


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## leggo PE (Nov 16, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> What most PE certifications anyone has ever gotten? Curious.



Dunno, but I feel like @squaretaper LIT AF PE is going for the record!


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 17, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> There is of course the ethical requirement that a licensed professional only practice within their area of competence. Thus, if you took the PE exam in control systems, you can't ethically perform geotechnical engineering services.
> 
> Legal, yes. Ethical, maybe.


There are other ways you can prove your competence besides passing the PE exam in that disciple.

If you were questioned by your state board, and you could point to coursework, or training, or significant work experience in another field, I wouldn't expect that they would have a problem with it.


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## Joe2 (Nov 20, 2021)

I’ve passed 3 tests (mech, elec, and civ-str). Most states see it as one license and you do whatever you “feel” competent in.. really it means if you screw up and didn’t pass the right test you can be found competent and negligent, if you pass that test, you can only be found negligent.

have 3 states that recognize me as competent in all 4, and 1 (think New Mexico) that only recognizes me for the one I have a degree in


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## Joe2 (Nov 20, 2021)

*incompetent and negligent


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## Reverse Polish (Nov 23, 2021)

Kyle C said:


> I do these in order to impress potential employer and potential clients and stamp if needed also it's fun to learn all disciplinary knowledges especially IC related part(that's why after preparing electrical power I chose to take ECC instead). I could learn to make your own circuit board and make toys for my son.



Now, this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

I am a structural engineer. If I were to interview a candidate that held PE licenses in multiple disciplines, the following thoughts cross my mind:

1. Which one, if any, are you actually good at?
2. How do I know you're going to stick with this job (which can be very difficult, with a decades-long learning curve)?

In other words--the last thing I am is impressed. I see a candidate who can't commit, and isn't particularly passionate about this field. The time for self-exploration is as an undergraduate, or in your free time, not on my dime. Now, if someone wants to switch careers to become a structural engineer, and commits to it, then I would do everything in my power to help that person along. But I have no interest in promoting professional exploration at the expense of the role for which I hired this person. 

I've devoted my career--and much of my free time--to one specific field of engineering. I'd want to have candidates focused on excelling in that one discipline--or even a subset of that discipline--rather than dabbling in numerous disciplines in some misguided bid to impress me with things that are outside the scope of my professional interests. 

Again, just one guy's opinion.


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## Lariliss (Nov 24, 2021)

I would like to agree with @Reverse Polish.

For myself, it was hard to decide, being an engineer or psychologist, biologist and so forth.

1. Thinking of opportunities, inclinations (and having pressure of relatives  ) I went to be a polytechnic engineer.
2. After 10 years of career, when I had enough of experience and more time for anything else I went to humanities.

Still long time ahead, the more knowledge you have, the better.
300 years ago it was clear what a farther should teach his son: carry out agriculture and ride a horse.

Today, who knows what will be in 20 years. The spur of the moment tells us that everybody should have environmental education, but engineering and IT are taking most part of the scope (out of scientific research).

But at the first thing, you should be able to commit after 5 years of education.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 24, 2021)

I disagree with @Lariliss and @Reverse Polish .

If your work history showed jumping between disciplines, that might show a lack of commitment. It would definitely need to be addressed in an interview.

But getting additional licenses and certifications, to me that shows a commitment to continuing education and self improvement.

Regarding the question, "how do I know that you're going to stick with this job?" It's the company's responsibility to create an environment where employees want to work. Yes, some people job hop excessively. But if this is something that keeps you up at night, then it's probably you, not me.


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## Lariliss (Nov 25, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> I disagree with @Lariliss and @Reverse Polish .
> 
> If your work history showed jumping between disciplines, that might show a lack of commitment. It would definitely need to be addressed in an interview.
> 
> ...


Dear jean15paul,
Thank you for the good point.

For me, there was not any 'jumping' in my history.
It wasn't jumping, it was time to broaden the competence (staying on the path).
And it is not related to ability of commitment.
Company-employee relationship is not about making comfort and putting yourself to a box.
If I commit - I stay there with the hardships, which even big companies cannot avoid.


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## Joe2 (Nov 28, 2021)

Feel we should do engineering differently, but don’t know how to fix it (disagree with the engineering stamps not being competency based).

Feel the tests were 25% applicable to my career. University was about 10% applicable. YouTubing engineering videos seem to better prepare me for the world.


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## Lariliss (Nov 29, 2021)

Joe2 said:


> Feel we should do engineering differently, but don’t know how to fix it (disagree with the engineering stamps not being competency based).
> 
> Feel the tests were 25% applicable to my career. University was about 10% applicable. YouTubing engineering videos seem to better prepare me for the world.


Engineering is practice and experience.
The pie chart of knowledge gained may vary greatly.


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## steel (Nov 29, 2021)

Joe2 said:


> Feel we should do engineering differently, but don’t know how to fix it (disagree with the engineering stamps not being competency based).
> 
> Feel the tests were 25% applicable to my career. University was about 10% applicable. YouTubing engineering videos seem to better prepare me for the world.


Out of curiosity, what do you mean by the stamps not being competency based? It seems to me that to be licensed, the Principles and Practice of Engineering exam tests one's competency. PDH hours for license renewal test continued effort to remain competent. 

The only thing I could see is something like retesting every 10 years or so, possibly with a shorter, online exam. Say, retest the depth portion of the PE exam every 10 years.


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## Reverse Polish (Nov 29, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> I disagree with @Lariliss and @Reverse Polish .
> 
> If your work history showed jumping between disciplines, that might show a lack of commitment. It would definitely need to be addressed in an interview.
> 
> ...



Perhaps its different in other fields of engineering, but I don't see how it is beneficial for a structural engineer to pass the electrical PE exam (as an example). There's enough to learn in our own field that diluting one's time to demonstrate minimum competency in another engineering discipline is of questionable value at best, and detrimental at worst. At the same time, licensure laws of most states only limit practice to the area of competency, which is left to the engineer. In such a case, there's no net benefit to obtaining a redundant license.

In our realm, it's far more beneficial for a licensed PE to pass the SE exam, or increase education and aptitude in other ways, than to spend time diverging from the area of practice.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 29, 2021)

Reverse Polish said:


> Perhaps its different in other fields of engineering, but I don't see how it is beneficial for a structural engineer to pass the electrical PE exam (as an example). There's enough to learn in our own field that diluting one's time to demonstrate minimum competency in another engineering discipline is of questionable value at best, and detrimental at worst. At the same time, licensure laws of most states only limit practice to the area of competency, which is left to the engineer. In such a case, there's no net benefit to obtaining a redundant license.
> 
> In our realm, it's far more beneficial for a licensed PE to pass the SE exam, or increase education and aptitude in other ways, than to spend time diverging from the area of practice.


I've never worked in the construction industry, but in other industries, that I'm aware of (both where I've worked and where other engineers I know have worked) it really depends on the size of the company. The smaller a company is, the more valuable it is for each person to be able to where multiple hats. Small companies are very excited to find people who are competent in multiple disciplines. The bigger a company gets the more they want their employees to be specialized. In medium-sized companies you'll only work in one discipline. In really large companies, you'll probably be specialized to only work on a single type of problem within a single discipline.

Again, I don't intend to over generalize. I'm sure this isn't the case everywhere. But it seems to be a relatively common situation.


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## Joe2 (Nov 29, 2021)

Agree with @jean15paul_PE.

Also everything starts blending together after a while (warning: oversimplication below).
Force/Area=Stress
Voltage/Current=Resistance
Flow/Velocity=Area
Mech lowers friction (make pipe bigger)
Elec lowers Voltage Drop (make wire bigger)
Struct lowers Stress (make material bigger)

We're all just searching for each of our own goldilocks zones to make sure it's safe without costing a fortune.

@Reverse Polish - Can't help myself 
It's good to know what we can ground to and if we can trust the low impedance fault current paths the structural engineer gives the electrical engineer (via concrete encased rebar, building steel, etc.). Common miss is a fault path from a wood building to a metal building. Grasping at straws, but it's fun to argue with strangers


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## Joe2 (Nov 29, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you mean by the stamps not being competency based? It seems to me that to be licensed, the Principles and Practice of Engineering exam tests one's competency. PDH hours for license renewal test continued effort to remain competent.
> 
> The only thing I could see is something like retesting every 10 years or so, possibly with a shorter, online exam. Say, retest the depth portion of the PE exam every 10 years.


May be different in your state. In TX and most states next to us, the stamp between structural, mech, civil, blah, blah, are all the same. Meaning you can "legally" (although highly frowned upon) stamp a structural drawing if you are granted an engineering license from the state and "feel competent" in material being stamped.

A lot of states also do not require your ABET accredited engineering degree to match the competency of the exam you take meaning you could get a mech BS and then take the elec power exam while getting your years of experience working under a structural engineer.. Think TX would list your competencies mech/elec in this case..

Haven't done a deep analysis or been curious enough to call the texas board though so further hypotheticals are encouraged. Know if you pass an additional test, you just call them, send them something from NCEES, and then they add your new competency (feel there should be another experience wall there..).


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## steel (Nov 29, 2021)

Joe2 said:


> May be different in your state. In TX and most states next to us, the stamp between structural, mech, civil, blah, blah, are all the same. Meaning you can "legally" (although highly frowned upon) stamp a structural drawing if you are granted an engineering license from the state and "feel competent" in material being stamped.
> 
> A lot of states also do not require your ABET accredited engineering degree to match the competency of the exam you take meaning you could get a mech BS and then take the elec power exam while getting your years of experience working under a structural engineer.. Think TX would list your competencies mech/elec in this case..
> 
> Haven't done a deep analysis or been curious enough to call the texas board though so further hypotheticals are encouraged. Know if you pass an additional test, you just call them, send them something from NCEES, and then they add your new competency (feel there should be another experience wall there..).


I don’t think you have the right term. Professional licenses are, indeed, “competency based” because you must pass competency tests in order to obtain them. I.e. Accredited degree, multiple exams, specific experience requirements, etc.

You’re citing an ethical issue. Every professional engineer is bound to practice only within their area of competence. But if you are really interested in something more concrete than an ethical requirement, look at the proposed structural engineering license being passed in more and more states (Oklahoma and Georgia are the most recent examples). These states saw a problem with engineers taking the 8-hour PE exam, which does _not_ adequately test one’s competency in structural engineering, and instead instituted a license that requires the passage of the 16-hour structural engineering exam.

Unfortunately, the National Society of Professional Engineers fights against every attempt to license engineers by discipline. Which is stupid. So I guess I’m saying I agree with you, yet I also disagree, if that makes any sense.


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## Joe2 (Nov 29, 2021)

@structurenole15 
Good catch, meant to emphasize your "engineers by discipline" comment. Also surprised the structural portion of civil programs wasn't broken off and made its own thing a long time ago.

Its entertaining we have a proctored exam where you're afraid to cough too loudly (and we aren't trusted with our phones), to then go to a system where we are considered ethical enough to make judgements about our own competencies.

So at how many more engineers do we need to change to a discipline recognized system?


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## steel (Nov 29, 2021)

Joe2 said:


> So at how many more engineers do we need to change to a discipline recognized system?


See, I don’t see much of a need for more specialization beyond structural. Maybe separate mech and elec, and possibly nuc, but beyond that would seem _too_ specific.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 30, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> See, I don’t see much of a need for more specialization beyond structural. Maybe separate mech and elec, and possibly nuc, but beyond that would seem _too_ specific.


At some point you have to trust a professional to be ethical.

I have a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering, but I've spent my whole career on the solid mechanical side on ME (materials, stress analysis, dynamics, machinery, manufacturing, etc). If someone came to me and said, "Hey I need an ME to design and stamp this HVAC project," I'd have to tell them to find someone else. I'm not competent in HVAC. That being said, there are ME's who are competent in both specialties. I'm sure that I could gain competence of time if I needed to take my career in a different direction.

I don't think there's any level of specialization that would be appropriate for every situation.


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## [email protected] (Nov 30, 2021)

Reverse Polish said:


> Perhaps its different in other fields of engineering, but I don't see how it is beneficial for a structural engineer to pass the electrical PE exam (as an example). There's enough to learn in our own field that diluting one's time to demonstrate minimum competency in another engineering discipline is of questionable value at best, and detrimental at worst. At the same time, licensure laws of most states only limit practice to the area of competency, which is left to the engineer. In such a case, there's no net benefit to obtaining a redundant license.
> 
> In our realm, it's far more beneficial for a licensed PE to pass the SE exam, or increase education and aptitude in other ways, than to spend time diverging from the area of practice.


In my opinion, there is overlap between different disciplines. For instance, the installation of a new electrical generator requires structural plans, mechanical and electrical. If an engineer builds competency in those three areas, it minimizes the amount of coordination required between three different engineers and makes for a better-coordinated project. I think the issue comes down to scale. Don't think it would be a good idea for one engineer to design the MEP and Structure for a high rise building, but even in that case being aware of the requirements of the other discipline would help come up with a design for your discipline of responsibility that fits better with the other disciplines. Engineering is a perishable skill and expanding your areas of expertise should not, in my opinion, be viewed as a detriment.


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## steel (Nov 30, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> In my opinion, there is overlap between different disciplines. For instance, the installation of a new electrical generator requires structural plans, mechanical and electrical. If an engineer builds competency in those three areas, it minimizes the amount of coordination required between three different engineers and makes for a better-coordinated project.


The problem is that any engineer competent in one of those areas most likely is _not_ competent enough in the other two to ethically complete that project by themselves. Maybe you could find one that is competent in two of those three areas, but definitely not all three.

Because if you have enough experience to be competent in structural engineering, mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering, it means you're most likely half-assing each discipline.


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## Reverse Polish (Nov 30, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> The problem is that any engineer competent in one of those areas most likely is _not_ competent enough in the other two to ethically complete that project by themselves. Maybe you could find one that is competent in two of those three areas, but definitely not all three.
> 
> Because if you have enough experience to be competent in structural engineering, mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering, it means you're most likely half-assing each discipline.



Exactly. For a structural engineer, anyway, any time spent developing competency in unrelated realms is time *not* spent developing structural expertise. This is a field where people spend entire careers not learning a fraction of the knowledge that is out there. There's no good reason to place artificial limits on yourself by attempting to be a jack-of-all-trades for some prideful nonsense reason. Hell, I like to cook too. That doesn't mean I'm going to take sabbatical from my engineering career to attend culinary school.

I once had a coach who said, "An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less." Using that definition, what's the antithesis?

If you find yourself sitting in a deposition or on a witness stand one day, for whatever reason, and you hold PE licenses in multiple disciplines, I *guarantee* that opposing counsel will ask you, on record, in which of those fields you consider yourself an expert. And no matter what your response, at best you're facing a long day of questioning of your credibility.


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## Reverse Polish (Nov 30, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Because if you have enough experience to be competent in structural engineering, mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering, it means you're most likely half-assing each discipline.



Or, one-third-assing.


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## Reverse Polish (Nov 30, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> In my opinion, there is overlap between different disciplines. For instance, the installation of a new electrical generator requires structural plans, mechanical and electrical. If an engineer builds competency in those three areas, it minimizes the amount of coordination required between three different engineers and makes for a better-coordinated project. I think the issue comes down to scale. Don't think it would be a good idea for one engineer to design the MEP and Structure for a high rise building, but even in that case being aware of the requirements of the other discipline would help come up with a design for your discipline of responsibility that fits better with the other disciplines. Engineering is a perishable skill and expanding your areas of expertise should not, in my opinion, be viewed as a detriment.



Here's a terrific example of two licensed Professional Engineers who decided to expand their areas of expertise. Emphases are mine.

"On March 27, 1981, Harbour Cay Condominium, a five-story flat-plate reinforced concrete building, collapsed as concrete was being placed for the roof slab. *Eleven workers were killed and 23 others were injured."*

"The engineers involved were licensed and believed they were working within their areas of expertise. They had not been trained or examined in the area of structural concrete design. Consequently, *they did not know they were deficient in knowledge* needed to protect the public."



Collapse of Harbour Cay Condominium | Structural Engineering Licensure Coalition


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 30, 2021)

Reverse Polish said:


> I once had a coach who said, "An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less." Using that definition, what's the antithesis?


A project manager


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## Joe2 (Dec 1, 2021)

Is there a set of plans (with calcs) out there for a building that has been vetted by all the appropriate committees that people could reference? Seems like everything's locked up as "proprietary information". I'm in a rural area and the best elec engineer in town retired, he reviewed some of our work as a peer review - after asking if he ever reviewed anyone else's work or if he ever had someone review his work formally, he said never (after practicing for about 30 years).

Wish they would include examples in more of the codes (the electrical code has a few good ones - was surprised to see that's not a normal thing).


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Dec 1, 2021)

Joe2 said:


> Is there a set of plans (with calcs) out there for a building that has been vetted by all the appropriate committees that people could reference? Seems like everything's locked up as "proprietary information". I'm in a rural area and the best elec engineer in town retired, he reviewed some of our work as a peer review - after asking if he ever reviewed anyone else's work or if he ever had someone review his work formally, he said never (after practicing for about 30 years).
> 
> Wish they would include examples in more of the codes (the electrical code has a few good ones - was surprised to see that's not a normal thing).


Examples can be super helpful, so I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, you can't list an example for every situation, and it's really easy for someone who doesn't have the necessary competence to think they can follow the example and be good. It could create some unnecessary risk and liability.


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## Joe2 (Dec 1, 2021)

Have any of you ever had your calcs reviewed by a 3rd party company? Or are the only people who get to see calcs internal?


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## [email protected] (Dec 2, 2021)

Reverse Polish said:


> Here's a terrific example of two licensed Professional Engineers who decided to expand their areas of expertise. Emphases are mine.
> 
> "On March 27, 1981, Harbour Cay Condominium, a five-story flat-plate reinforced concrete building, collapsed as concrete was being placed for the roof slab. *Eleven workers were killed and 23 others were injured."*
> 
> ...


I think every engineer has the responsibility to be proficient in whatever they are designing. Even if you feel you are proficient in the area of the design if what is been proposed has the potential to harm the public you should have your design peer-reviewed. I know most of us are under pressure to complete designs and succumb to pressure to rush through. If I remember correctly the Harbour Cay Condominium's main issue was the scheduling of form removals, which the engineer approved and led to the collapse since the concrete had not achieved the required compression strength before removing the forms. I usually try to read the reports from engineering disasters, I find most of them were caused by schedule pressures which led to rush decisions on the part of the engineer and contractors. Hyatt Regency walkway collapse and Florida International University come to mind.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2022)

Porter_ said:


> if i correctly understand what you're asking, i did not use my college degree as experience credit. I've had several years of structural design experience in the workplace so that's what i used for the CE exam application.


That is the way it is in Florida. Once you have a PE you just need to apply for an additional discipline and take the test. No need to provide additional information.


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