# Master Degree used as partial experience for licensure



## nomadseifer (May 29, 2017)

I just complete a masters program while working full time.  Some states allow 'double dipping' of that work/education experience when applying for PE, and some do not.  But it gets interesting for me because I actually started my masters as a full-time student before I started working.  So I started my masters in Aug. 2013, and started full-time work in March 2014.  I just completed my degree in May.  So in states that do not allow double-dipping, do those first months of my masters program where I was not working full time count for anything?  Will I be eligible for licensure in August 2017 or March 2018?  

I am curious if anyone has specific experience with this situation.  I contacted the PA board about it and they told me they couldn't tell me anything until I actually applied...  

Thanks for reading


----------



## ExhibitGuy (May 29, 2017)

When I applied to take the tests with the CA board, I was in a similar situation. The board requires a 4 year ABET-accredited B.S degree, plus 2 years of working experience under a PE. However, one of the working years can be knocked off if you have a master's degree (which I did).

My predicament was that I was still technically a student when I began working at my current job in June 2015. The reason why is that at my school, I was in a blended BS/MS program, where you're B.S is awarded simultaneously with your M.S. once you've completed your thesis. The only problem is, I didn't officially finish my thesis dissertation until December 2015. So my transcripts show that I earned my B.S (and M.S) in December 2015, when in reality I completed the requirements for my B.S a while back in March 2014. I was worried that the time span between June 2015 and December 2015, where I was working fulltime at my job, would count for nothing, and that I wouldn't be eligible for the April 2017 test.

Fortunately, I got some reassurance from reps at the CA BPESLG, and I included a long, passive-aggressive letter explaining why I believed I was eligible for the exam, and where on my transcripts it says I completed my B.S requirements but did not officially receive the degree. I ended up being eligible and I took the test!

So for your application, I recommend including documentation about your situation. I'm not sure how PA count's the masters degree education (as one year automatically or based on how long you took to get the degree?) I personally don't see why you can't count your Master's experience in those early months.


----------



## Lomarandil (May 30, 2017)

I had a similar experience to ExhibitGuy in CA. Like him, I included references to the board rules/laws that spelled out where and how I was allowed to double-dip. I also pro-rated my work experience during the MS program, as I worked 20-30hrs/week during that time.

It sounds like in your case (not allowed to double dip) you may not be able to do much. But it only costs an application fee and some time to try!


----------



## CAPLS (May 30, 2017)

You two are not as unique as you think you are.  Approval probably occurred because 1) California does *not* require a BS degree to apply for licensure, and 2) the additional information you provided most likely satisfied the unknown for BPELSG staff.


----------



## CAPLS (May 30, 2017)

nomadseifer said:


> I just complete a masters program while working full time.  Some states allow 'double dipping' of that work/education experience when applying for PE, and some do not.  But it gets interesting for me because I actually started my masters as a full-time student before I started working.  So I started my masters in Aug. 2013, and started full-time work in March 2014.  I just completed my degree in May.  So in states that do not allow double-dipping, do those first months of my masters program where I was not working full time count for anything?  Will I be eligible for licensure in August 2017 or March 2018?
> 
> I am curious if anyone has specific experience with this situation.  I contacted the PA board about it and they told me they couldn't tell me anything until I actually applied...
> 
> Thanks for reading


You're seeing one of the reasons why the California Board is moving away from final filing dates for licensure and separating the licensure process entirely from the examination process.

This is really a question for what board (or boards) you are applying for licensure with.  The experiences others had were unique to their situation and likely may not apply to yours.  I know in California, our regulations speak for what experience can be counted twice and what cannot.  Based solely on what you have stated, it appears that once you hit the simultaneous education/working full-time point in time, things become more complicated.


----------



## Road Guy (May 30, 2017)

nomadseifer said:


> I just complete a masters program while working full time.  Some states allow 'double dipping' of that work/education experience when applying for PE, and some do not.  But it gets interesting for me because I actually started my masters as a full-time student before I started working.  So I started my masters in Aug. 2013, and started full-time work in March 2014.  I just completed my degree in May.  So in states that do not allow double-dipping, do those first months of my masters program where I was not working full time count for anything?  Will I be eligible for licensure in August 2017 or March 2018?
> 
> I am curious if anyone has specific experience with this situation.  I contacted the PA board about it and they told me they couldn't tell me anything until I actually applied...
> 
> Thanks for reading


From reading a lot of these situations over the years the masters degree only gets you 1 year of "experience" total &amp; I doubt many would grant you two for one. (but I am curious to know if there is one state that will do that) 

That's sort of like, well I worked a lot of overtime so I should only have to have 3.7 years experience..

Its hard to rationalize it but in the long run (most states) you need the 4 years, if you have MS or PHD then you need 3 years "real experience" and then the one year "academic experience" they give you credit for.  But in all reality whether you take the exam in 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, in the long run its not going to have a huge bearing on your career.  It seems that way at this stage but in all reality it just wont..


----------



## RBHeadge PE (May 31, 2017)

I looked into this many years when determining when I could initially take the exam. I know that Delaware, and Maryland doesn't allow you to double dip. Pennsylvania sorta lets you double dip, but it'll be tough to get it past the board. And Pennsylvania has some strict requirements on using a graduate degree towards experience requirements (must be in same discipline as undergrad). I came to the conclusion that even if I did qualify to take the exam in one state, that my licence may not transfer to another state later on. If you plan on only ever working in one state this may not be a problem for you. But to be safe I made sure that I had four full years of professional experience ignoring any credits for graduate degrees, before applying to take the exam.

When you were in grad school from Aug - Mar, were you working "full time" as an RA under the supervision of a professor with a PE? In that circumstance, then those 7-8 months would count as professional experience. Assuming you weren't, you would have enough experience by March 2018. And you would be eligible to take the April 2018 exam but only in a state that allows you to apply for when you to take an exam where you would have four years experience by exam day.  Many states require you to have enough experience when you submit the application. So Maryland would not let you take the exam, but Illinois would, because the applications are due before March.

tl;dr best case: October 2017 exam, worst case October 2018


----------



## anarchonobody (Jun 2, 2017)

From the Illinois code, it looks like you might be good to go. You could probably work it out to claim 2013-2014 as a Master's degree year, and 2014-2017 as work experience years...but it's not clear. Probably best to read your states requirements for experience, and try some clever manipulation to game the system.


----------



## smahurin (Jun 8, 2017)

It depends on your state and their regulations.  But you are correct in that most states allow a 2-yr masters program to count as 1-yr of experience and that most states do not allow you to double dip.  In these instances its often more beneficial to discount your education and count your work experience (2=2 in that case not 2=1).  I realize your experiences are offset a little, but if they don't allow you to double count it'll still be better to use work experience.


----------

