# Is the Machine Design and Materials exam less popular?



## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 19, 2017)

I am considering taking the Mechanical PE exam for Machine Design and Materials in October. I graduated in 2011 with an MS in Mechanical Engineering, however I have not been doing very intense engineering work since I graduated. As I look at the three test options available, it seems that the Machine Design and Materials is the least specialized, and as such I thought this would be the best fit for me: I mostly want to take the test so that I can get my license and start a small side business offering engineering services to small business owners. The license will be used mostly as a ways of legitimizing my business.

The reason for my question is that as I read through this board, it seems that most of the questions and discussions ar around the Thermal and Fluids exam. What is the reason for this? I have not really seen any discussion regarding the Machine Design and Materials exam.


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## JHW 3d (Jun 19, 2017)

I took the Mechanical Systems and Materials (as it was known then) exam in October 2015. It was definitely the exam best suited to my skill set, which is machine design, automation and robotics. (Sidebar: That being said, I lament the fact that there is a lack of breadth in the new exams. I enjoyed the challenge of having to study and get comfortable with solving TFS problems even though I don't need to use that information too often. The process of obtaining my PE just felt more complete and thorough. )

Technically it doesn't matter which exam you take. They all yield the same license. Ultimately, and according to most state laws (YMMV), you will be obliged not to practice outside of your skill set area of expertise.

We definitely had a spirited round of working together during my exam cycle. Others that have just taken the exam in April will be better suited to answer questions specific to the new format.

Good Luck! We are here to help


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Jun 19, 2017)

I suspect the reason more TFS questions are asked here is because there really aren't that many good resources for the answers anywhere else.  For machine design there is, IMO, more to find elsewhere.  If you're on the fence, I just recommend you pick a discipline area that you enjoy the most and go for it.


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 19, 2017)

I was definitely on the fence, but went ahead and signed up for the Machine Design and Materials exam because, similarly to JHW, I am also interesed in "machine design, automation and robotics". I think the Thermal/Fluids may have bee more 'fun' for me to prep for, as I greatly enjoyed those topics in school (I took graduate courses in both) but ultimately the Machine Design feels like a better fit for the type of work I want to do in my side business.

Is it possible to change your choice after you've signed up?


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## namod65 (Jun 20, 2017)

Its about what is required in your industry. If you're doing MDM, chances are you're probably in the manufacturing field, where you don't need a PE license to design tools, processes, parts, etc... for large company (Honda, GE, etc...) Some companies may have it as a requirement for you to climb the ladder to a management position, but this isn't the case everywhere. But ultimately, you don't need a PE to succeed in the manufacturing field. A lot of my college friends went to these places and have no plans to take the PE because they don't need it and there isn't much incentive from their company to get it.

I'm in the HVAC consulting field and honestly I'm a bit surprised this isn't the overwhelming majority on here. To my knowledge this is one of the only industries you can get into as a mechanical engineer that absolutely requires a PE license to advance your career. The main "product" that engineers produce in this industry are HVAC system designs and concepts that are to be implemented in the construction of a building. Construction documents of a building need to be issued a permit by government to construct the building. These documents need to be signed/sealed by a licensed PE. So if you're firm doesn't have anyone to sign/seal the drawings, they're just a worthless set of papers. Having your PE dramatically increases your value in this industry, as you can turn one of these worthless sets of paper into a product your firm can sell. It will be the gateway towards increased responsibilities and your role in your firm. Your firm will be able to bill your time at a higher rate, thus increasing your value to them. If I wasn't in the consulting field, I probably wouldn't be here.

I don't know much about the TFS industry as I don't know anyone working in that specific field. Maybe if you're working at an energy company or something with power plants? Not sure if designs need to be signed/sealed? Anyone on here work in this field and want to shed any light on whether a PE license is required to approve designs or something?

The reason this place is mostly civil engineers is because the vast majority of civil engineering jobs are doing work/design that directly impacts the safety of the public (road design, sewer design, bridge design, structural design, etc...) and a licensed PE needs to sign/seal any plans/designs created for permit.


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## amats42 (Jun 20, 2017)

@namod65 's post mirrors my experience in mechanical engineering as well. I do design that requires AHJ permits and so my company needs PE signatures in order to get those drawings approved. As such, all of our engineers are expected to get licensed. When I worked at a manufacturing company zero of the engineers were licensed. It was actually a big reason for me to switch careers--I wanted to design larger scale projects and possibly work in consulting so I needed to work under PEs.

For me, TFS was the closest field to what I do at work. It involves pipe sizing, flow analysis, and meter/valve selection. The thermal/power is outside my scope at work, but very much something I enjoyed in school so it was a good fit for me. I think when someone works in design and needs to get licensed they are either directly doing HVAC as mentioned above or they work in some sort of pipe/plumbing design so TFS is the closest they can find (like me). IMO this is why the majority of takers are in these two focuses.

I knew one automation engineer who took the machine design test because he wanted to get licensed just because and not for career advancement. I think others like him take MDM and quite a few others just feel this is more applicable to what they learned in school (but maybe not as applicable to what they do for work). In terms of licensing whatever test is easiest for you to pass is the best for you to take, but for me I would rather study something that I do for a living rather than try to take an easier test.


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 20, 2017)

@namod65 and @amats42 thanks so much for your replies. This helps a lot. For me personally, I do not require a PE for career purposes - in fact, I've only had a single year of actual design engineering work experience, everything else has been project management, manufacturing engineering, and latest product management. This is one of the reasons I've held off on going after a PE - I don't have the requisite number of years working with a licensed PE. Recently, though, North Carolina changed the rules and they let you take the PE exam after a minimum number of years working, despite whether or not you qualify to apply for the actual license. The license application is separate and requires the 2 or 4 years (I can't recall) working with a licensed PE.

That being the case, one may wonder why I'm even bothering with the exam. Well, for one I want to know if I can do it. But more importantly, I am interested in starting a small business where I will work with other small business owners to help them automate various aspects of their businesses. I don't exactly require a PE license for this, but I believe it will help legitimize my business and help me to win customers. I still need to figure out a way to meet the minimum time under a licensed PE requirement, but I figure I'll take this all one step at a time.

Anywho, thank you both for your responses. My background is in manufacturing and given what I want to do with my small business, I think the MDM was the right choice.


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## sayed (Jun 21, 2017)

ezzieyguywuf said:


> @namod65 and @amats42 thanks so much for your replies. This helps a lot. For me personally, I do not require a PE for career purposes - in fact, I've only had a single year of actual design engineering work experience, everything else has been project management, manufacturing engineering, and latest product management. This is one of the reasons I've held off on going after a PE - I don't have the requisite number of years working with a licensed PE. Recently, though, North Carolina changed the rules and they let you take the PE exam after a minimum number of years working, despite whether or not you qualify to apply for the actual license. The license application is separate and requires the 2 or 4 years (I can't recall) working with a licensed PE.
> 
> That being the case, one may wonder why I'm even bothering with the exam. Well, for one I want to know if I can do it. But more importantly, I am interested in starting a small business where I will work with other small business owners to help them automate various aspects of their businesses. I don't exactly require a PE license for this, but I believe it will help legitimize my business and help me to win customers. I still need to figure out a way to meet the minimum time under a licensed PE requirement, but I figure I'll take this all one step at a time.
> 
> Anywho, thank you both for your responses. My background is in manufacturing and given what I want to do with my small business, I think the MDM was the right choice.


you don't need to be employed directly by a PE.

just get 3-5 reference letters from various PEs and you should be fine


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 21, 2017)

sayed said:


> you don't need to be employed directly by a PE.
> 
> just get 3-5 reference letters from various PEs and you should be fine


Hm, I'll have to read the application requirements more closely. I thought I needed progressive career experience in actual engineering. I also thought that the PEs that I use for a reference had to comment on engineering work that I had done.


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## J_MEC (Jun 21, 2017)

North Carolina does say that you need 3 of your 5 references must be from licensed PEs and that half of the required time (so 2 years) must be under a professional engineer.

I passed the PE machine design and materials exam this past April and I am going through the application process right now. It is worse than studying for and taking the exam.


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## amats42 (Jun 21, 2017)

The California application is also rather tedious. It took more hours than I expected to assemble everything and verify I met all the requirements.

I think a lot of states require work directly under a PE. I know in California you need a PE to put supervisor for the months you are using as experience. However, with our recent decoupling you can knock out the test immediately and just wait for years under a PE. This route definitely makes the test taking part easier.


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 21, 2017)

Regarding the references from Licenced PE's, I emailed the Executive Director of the NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors and it seems like I can request a waiver of this requirement. This waiver would necessitate that all of my references com from direct supervisors.


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## J_MEC (Jun 21, 2017)

ezzieyguywuf said:


> Regarding the references from Licenced PE's, I emailed the Executive Director of the NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors and it seems like I can request a waiver of this requirement. This waiver would necessitate that all of my references com from direct supervisors.


This is good information to know!


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## sayed (Jun 22, 2017)

ezzieyguywuf said:


> Hm, I'll have to read the application requirements more closely. I thought I needed progressive career experience in actual engineering. I also thought that the PEs that I use for a reference had to comment on engineering work that I had done.


i worked at a utilities. my boss wasn't a PE i don't think. but i worked there for two years and got letters from random people i had to track down who were PEs.

I worked for a small company during grad school for a year. so that gave me the 3 years i needed (grad school knocked off a year)

it doesn't hurt. just get the letters and apply to sit for the test. worst they could do is ask for more info


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 22, 2017)

sayed said:


> i worked at a utilities. my boss wasn't a PE i don't think. but i worked there for two years and got letters from random people i had to track down who were PEs.
> 
> I worked for a small company during grad school for a year. so that gave me the 3 years i needed (grad school knocked off a year)
> 
> it doesn't hurt. just get the letters and apply to sit for the test. worst they could do is ask for more info


@sayed in North Carolina I don't have to apply to sit for the test, I just have to take it. The actual application and references and all that comes after I pass the test when I apply for my actual license. That is interesting that you included two random PE's as references though: what did they say about you if they were just randos? Lol.


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## sayed (Jun 22, 2017)

ezzieyguywuf said:


> @sayed in North Carolina I don't have to apply to sit for the test, I just have to take it. The actual application and references and all that comes after I pass the test when I apply for my actual license. That is interesting that you included two random PE's as references though: what did they say about you if they were just randos? Lol.


well, if you take it and pass, you still have a few years that the results will be valid. so might as well take it.

they were people i either kinda knew, or may have seen around. i did have to track them down though. no one at the shitty job did much engineering. it was so ridiculous.


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## ezzieyguywuf (Jun 22, 2017)

sayed said:


> well, if you take it and pass, you still have a few years that the results will be valid. so might as well take it.


Yea, if I pass I intend to apply for my license right away. I have 1 year under a PE, I have a friend who is a PE that I could use as a reference, and then I plan to request that waiver that I mentioned earlier as well. So between 5 references from direct supervisors (one of whom is a PE) and one reference from a friend who is a PE I think I should be ok.


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## spacebanjo (Jul 21, 2017)

In Texas (Mechanical TFS) for references I used a coworker (electrical PE), an old college professor (Mechanical PE), and a coworkers sister (Structural PE). I have not done extensive work under or with any of them.


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