# Degree evaluation for PE Exam



## schok108 (Mar 3, 2011)

I am in dilemma. I applied to VA board for my PE (Civil) Test. My undergrade degree is from another country. (where there is no concept like ABET accreditation) I have finished my PhD from US university which is ABET credited. The Board needs to have Bachelors degree from ABET accredited university. Only option left is to get the BS degree evaluated by NCEES. I paid $400 for which. Now they want my BS uni to send the documents directly to them which is just impossible. I can't make visit to my home country for this! Anybody has similar experience?


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## JoeBoone82 (Mar 4, 2011)

I think it is ridiculous. I had a classmate in graduate school who is from India. He had about 15+ years of engineering and construction experience in India and the Middle East. He has the undergrad engineering degree from India (which is probably better than a lot of engr programs here), the masters degree here, has all of that experience, and I'm not even sure if he can take the FE exam. It seems a little messe up, but I guess they are just trying to protect themselves and make some money at the same time. I'm not sure what you can do though.


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## humner (Mar 4, 2011)

Try different states. Get the PE, then work on reciprocity / comity for the state you want. They may want some more years of experience for the state you are trying to get into, but at least you would have your exams behind you.


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## snickerd3 (Mar 4, 2011)

what sort of information are they asking for? A transcript is highly likely one of them to verify completion. and easy comparision of the types of classes you took. Course descriptions might be another. Alot of time the foreign degrees are lacking several classes, i think humanities courses are some of the ones i have heard.


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## schok108 (Mar 4, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> what sort of information are they asking for? A transcript is highly likely one of them to verify completion. and easy comparision of the types of classes you took. Course descriptions might be another. Alot of time the foreign degrees are lacking several classes, i think humanities courses are some of the ones i have heard.


They are asking for following documents:

1. Transcript

2. Diploma

3. Course Description

All of these should be sent by uni directly. There is no way my Indian university is going to send them directly. I am ready to pay the uni if they do but there is not such system developed there. Thanks.


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## snickerd3 (Mar 4, 2011)

what sort of system are they lacking? They likely provide that information to native companies for employement all the time. It might take a phone call to the school to work it out.

or is it a translation to english they can't provide?


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## Jonjo (Mar 4, 2011)

schok108 said:


> I am in dilemma. I applied to VA board for my PE (Civil) Test. My undergrade degree is from another country. (where there is no concept like ABET accreditation) I have finished my PhD from US university which is ABET credited. The Board needs to have Bachelors degree from ABET accredited university. Only option left is to get the BS degree evaluated by NCEES. I paid $400 for which. Now they want my BS uni to send the documents directly to them which is just impossible. I can't make visit to my home country for this! Anybody has similar experience?


I had the experience when I start my F.E , they make go back to my country and start my papers then translate into English by official entity and the school is the only one send to NCEES , after I did that my problems when out and then everything run easy and smouth trough my F.E exam and then my P.E exam , my nightmare finish last October by pass my P.E exam !!


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## Jonjo (Mar 4, 2011)

Jonjo said:


> schok108 said:
> 
> 
> > I am in dilemma. I applied to VA board for my PE (Civil) Test. My undergrade degree is from another country. (where there is no concept like ABET accreditation) I have finished my PhD from US university which is ABET credited. The Board needs to have Bachelors degree from ABET accredited university. Only option left is to get the BS degree evaluated by NCEES. I paid $400 for which. Now they want my BS uni to send the documents directly to them which is just impossible. I can't make visit to my home country for this! Anybody has similar experience?
> ...


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## Pratap (Mar 4, 2011)

schok108 said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > what sort of information are they asking for? A transcript is highly likely one of them to verify completion. and easy comparision of the types of classes you took. Course descriptions might be another. Alot of time the foreign degrees are lacking several classes, i think humanities courses are some of the ones i have heard.
> ...



I'm going through the same process of getting my Bachelor's degree from India verified through the NCEES credentials process. In my case I called up my university and asked for the transcripts department. I spoke to the person in charge and asked him how i should go about it considering I was not in India anymore. On his guidance I got my friends and family back home in India to help me out with the transcript process. I sent them (family) my original my mark sheets and a letter addressed to the university stating why i needed my transcripts and another stating the I'd authorized my sister to take decisions on my behalf.

My sister went to the university and submitted attested copies of all my mark sheets ans the original letter and the authorization letter. They told her how much it would cost. After paying the fees at the accounts section she was asked to come back after 2 weeks.

I figured the university must have a record of all their previous versions of the syllabus. My sister picked up a copy of the official syllabus booklet for my batch (1998-2001) from the University students section .

She took an extra envelope addressed to NCEES when she went to collect the transcript . The university staff had sealed the transcripts in their official envelope.

She put the copies of the syllabus (course description) and the official transcript envelope into the extra envelope which was addressed to NCEES. She had the university staff seal this extra envelope with their seal and put the required postage on it. She dropped off the envelope at the university post office.

For the diploma, I had my original diploma with me here in America. The NCEES person in charge of my case told me that I should send them notarized copy of my diploma since the only original document that they needed was the transcript. I made a copy of the diploma, got it notarized and sent it to NCEES.

Since things back home in India have a tenancy to move pretty slow, I started the process 1 1/2 month ago. My transcripts were sent out last week. Now I wait on NCEES to tell me that I'm short of 14 general studies credit 

Once I know what my official credentials evaluation reports says, then I'll figure out my next step. But for now I continue to wait.


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## HerrKaLeun (Mar 4, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> what sort of system are they lacking? They likely provide that information to native companies for employement all the time. It might take a phone call to the school to work it out.
> or is it a translation to english they can't provide?


Most countries, including Germany as mine, don't have a process to submit the exact content of your classes. What you show to an employer or higher university is the grades of each course, and the final grade and the Diploma. It is assumed when you have a German engineering degree, all math classes are sufficient, no further evidence needed. When you search for my name here, you find my story....

Anyway, in Germany the degree is legally protected and schools giving out diplomas are controlled by the state (in fact, all are state schools). with that the degree itself is worth whatever it is called. it is illegal for someone to use that degree (diplomingenieur as in my case) or to award it to someone without state school approval. In the US, the "bachelor" is not a protected title (like PhD or so) and any school (even myself) can graduate anyone as bachelor. I can open my own school and give people a bachelor degree in "daydream engineering" and no one could argue with me. Therefore NCEES requires some kind of proof it actually is worthwhile, which they do with ABET.

I'm not saying that to show a German or Indian degree is better, but to show why we don't have such a process in place. In addition, German is the official language. In India he might be lucky they have English documents. Trust me, no one in Germany asks about the specific contents of a course for the reasons mentioned above. It might come up as an interview question if it relates tot hat specific job, but no one ever requires documents.

Considering the US is an immigration nation, there should be a better process to allow talented people to take a test. Someone has a PhD from a top US school, and they act like it is not as good as a BS from the same school, really? We should be happy that talented people come from other countries with their undergraduate degree (paid for by Indian tax money).


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## DynaMechEng (Mar 7, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > what sort of system are they lacking? They likely provide that information to native companies for employement all the time. It might take a phone call to the school to work it out.
> ...


With all due respect, if U.S. engineers needed to obtain licensure in Germany or India, we would no doubt have to jump through the same hoops (and an ABET degree would probably be meaningless). I agree it's not a perfect system, and I also scoff at the notion of guys with foreign undergrand degrees AND US graduate degrees not being allowed to take the FE/PE because they lack humanities credits, but when in Rome.....


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## HerrKaLeun (Mar 7, 2011)

DynaMechEng said:


> With all due respect, if U.S. engineers needed to obtain licensure in Germany or India, we would no doubt have to jump through the same hoops (and an ABET degree would probably be meaningless). I agree it's not a perfect system, and I also scoff at the notion of guys with foreign undergrand degrees AND US graduate degrees not being allowed to take the FE/PE because they lack humanities credits, but when in Rome.....


I agree that the process of acknowledgment of foreign degrees likely is not much better elsewhere and I don't mind jumping through some hoops (I guess obtaining a US Master degree is enough jumping)... but the part where they require a foreign degree to be like a US degree in aspects unrelated to engineering (i.e. social classes required by ABET) and require all documents to be sent by the university in English (regardless of the original language) is a needless requirement just to make it harder, not to ensure quality engineering.

I don't think because it is a hassle in other countries is a good excuse to make it a hassle in the US.

As a compromise, NCEES could handle it like Minnesota: if a US Masters degree, from a university that has an ABET program in that discipline, is obtained one should be able to write the test after 5 years of experience. This is an achievable goal, and ensures quality of education (and a university with ABET programs also has a tidy selection process of students)


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## woodslegend (May 17, 2011)

Pratap said:


> schok108 said:
> 
> 
> > snickerd3 said:
> ...



Hello Pratap,

Did you get your official credentials evaluation reports yet? I would like to know your experience with the evaluation process and your next plans, because we are pretty much in the same line.

Thank you.


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## Pratap (Jun 20, 2011)

woodslegend said:


> Pratap said:
> 
> 
> > schok108 said:
> ...



Hello woodslegend,

I'm sorry I didn't realize there was a additional comment posted here. Yes, my credentials evaluation report was completed on 05/16/2011. The final outcome of the report was that I exceeded most of the technical requirements (by a lot) except for falling short by 10 credits for General Education (Humanities and Socila Sciences). The evaluation report made the following conclusion

"[SIZE=12pt]The NCEES Engineering Education Standard requirement is 16 semester credits in topics such as philosophy, religion, history, literature, fine arts, sociology, psychology, political science, anthropology, economics, professional ethics, and social responsibility. Admission to engineering or professional programs at degree granting institutions in India requires completion of college preparatory level courses in Humanities and Social Sciences at the high school level. The traditional academic structure of a bachelors program in science and engineering in India does not require completion of a humanities and social sciences component. The academic emphasis is in the field of study and supporting disciplines."[/SIZE]

Overall the whole process was prety good....and pretty fast. The hold-up was on my end...it took almost 4 months for me to get NCEES all the transcripts and corresponding syllabi for every year of the under-grad degree. But once they recieved these documents, NCEES took only 2 days to complete my evaluation.

I sent out my Louisiana PE application form in the last week of May. I'm waiting on my reference letters. I expect to have this remaining part of the application package submitted by end of this week. The deadline to recieve the complete package is 07/01/2011.


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## harriee (Jun 20, 2011)

schok108 said:


> I am in dilemma. I applied to VA board for my PE (Civil) Test. My undergrade degree is from another country. (where there is no concept like ABET accreditation) I have finished my PhD from US university which is ABET credited. The Board needs to have Bachelors degree from ABET accredited university. Only option left is to get the BS degree evaluated by NCEES. I paid $400 for which. Now they want my BS uni to send the documents directly to them which is just impossible. I can't make visit to my home country for this! Anybody has similar experience?


I had to do the same thing last year to sit for my PE exam eventhough the university in which I got my Master is ABET credited. I had to send my dad to the university to request all the information NCEES wanted. It took 2 weeks for the my university in India to send it to NCEES and a month for NCEES to get it evaluvated.


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## woodslegend (Jun 20, 2011)

[No message]


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## jan33# (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi every one I spend $400+ for evaluation and got same reply from NCEES and now MA board is not accepting the deficiencies i.e 10 credits or 16 semester.

Any one is having similar problem. I don't know what should I do how i can justify my degree

Hello woodslegend,

I'm sorry I didn't realize there was a additional comment posted here. Yes, my credentials evaluation report was completed on 05/16/2011. The final outcome of the report was that I exceeded most of the technical requirements (by a lot) except for falling short by 10 credits for General Education (Humanities and Socila Sciences). The evaluation report made the following conclusion

"[SIZE=12pt]The NCEES Engineering Education Standard requirement is 16 semester credits in topics such as philosophy, religion, history, literature, fine arts, sociology, psychology, political science, anthropology, economics, professional ethics, and social responsibility. Admission to engineering or professional programs at degree granting institutions in India requires completion of college preparatory level courses in Humanities and Social Sciences at the high school level. The traditional academic structure of a bachelors program in science and engineering in India does not require completion of a humanities and social sciences component. The academic emphasis is in the field of study and supporting disciplines."[/SIZE]

Overall the whole process was prety good....and pretty fast. The hold-up was on my end...it took almost 4 months for me to get NCEES all the transcripts and corresponding syllabi for every year of the under-grad degree. But once they recieved these documents, NCEES took only 2 days to complete my evaluation.

I sent out my Louisiana PE application form in the last week of May. I'm waiting on my reference letters. I expect to have this remaining part of the application package submitted by end of this week. The deadline to recieve the complete package is 07/01/2011.


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## dilli (Jun 30, 2011)

Many People here seem to follow what THE BOARD tells them to.

My undergrad is not from US. I have a MS in engineering from US + 4 years of experience. I was trying to submit my application to DC, but realized that they need the evaluation and all that crap. MD accepts MS from US and does not need evaluation of your foreign undergrad, ditto for :wv: . I am going to go to :wv: caz deadline for MD is TODAY, can's make it. :wv: is accepting the application until July 30, 2011. Cool!


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## DannyV (Jun 30, 2011)

There are processes in place to deal with diplomas from different countries. Check with the US department of State they offer translations and educational evaluations for degrees outside of the US.


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## soma (Jul 1, 2011)

Can we apply from other state than the one we are living in ?



dilli said:


> Many People here seem to follow what THE BOARD tells them to. My undergrad is not from US. I have a MS in engineering from US + 4 years of experience. I was trying to submit my application to DC, but realized that they need the evaluation and all that crap. MD accepts MS from US and does not need evaluation of your foreign undergrad, ditto for : :wv: :. I am going to go to : :wv: : caz deadline for MD is TODAY, can's make it. : :wv: : is accepting the application until July 30, 2011. Cool!


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## DannyV (Jul 1, 2011)

soma said:


> Can we apply from other state than the one we are living in ?
> 
> Soma,
> 
> You may apply to all states plus Puerto Rico, Guam and US Virgin Islands... LOL They all have an Board of engineers, however I suggest that you get first your state of residence or the state where most of you work is done. For instance, I have a NJ PE but I work in Philly but most of my work is from Washington DC. I'm planning to get my PE in PA and DC soon.


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