# Back To The Drawing Board Again



## kduff70 (May 28, 2015)

[SIZE=10.5pt]I didn’t pass again, but I'm not giving up. The thing that get me is all the stuff that I was weak on the last test I did very well in but the stuff I did well on the last I did poor. I think I have to study principle more this next time while continuing to work all the spin, graffeo, CI , Ncees and focus on understand each Ncees topic principle very well that they provide . I will start this journey again next week thank you all for your help.[/SIZE]


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 28, 2015)

kduff70 said:


> I didn’t pass again, but I'm not giving up. The thing that get me is all the stuff that I was weak on the last test I did very well in but the stuff I did well on the last I did poor. I think I have to study principle more this next time while continuing to work all the spin, graffeo, CI , Ncees and focus on understand each Ncees topic principle very well that they provide . I will start this journey again next week thank you all for your help.


Keep your chin up, you can get it done. My problem was I studied for what was on the test I failed. And, obviously, none of that stuff showed up again. Understanding concepts will improve your confidence and help you immensely on the next test.


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## kduff70 (May 28, 2015)

Thank you June first I will start this journey again


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## poosri (May 28, 2015)

kduff70, I like your spirit...Don't give up...You can do it...Yeah, I would say focus more on the principles than anything else...That really helped me the second time...I read through Wildi as much as I could to understand all the basics and then went back to spin up, graffeo, CI, NCEES etc. Wildi looks scary/huge at the beginning - but trust me, once you finish a chapter or two, u will start liking it and feel comfortable with lot of core concepts...at least i really fell in love with book once i finished chapter 7-10 

Gud luck! I am sure u can do it October...Stay focused and determined...Quality studying matters the most than the actual number of hours...so take a break for little bit and then just GO for it...


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## kduff70 (May 28, 2015)

Thank You Poosri that helps I will definitely take your adivce I think stronger principle verse problem solve might be the way to go


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## iwire (May 28, 2015)

ya don't give up man....

do you have a quick formula/note book binder? I suggest to make one to help you


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## Kovz (May 29, 2015)

Don't lose hope, Kduff... it's only a matter of time until you pass. The only way one truly fails, is if they give up.

Take your time while working through the problems in Spin-Up, CI, Graffeo, NCEES, etc. Don't just pick an answer to get a right answer, but try to fully understand why the answer is what is it is, how it can be asked differently, and the theory behind it. Try to compare similar questions (for example, compare different kinds of autotransformers and stuff).

I used the Graffeo book as my main reference, along with my custom made binder with all the NCEES exam specifications tabbed in their own sections. As I worked through the practice exams, I wrote many extra notes throughout the Graffeo book and my binder printouts and had a lot of stuff highlighted in both. Try to give the Graffeo book a thorough read from cover to cover. .

As iwire mentioned, having a quick formula page is great. I ended up using the Graffeo book as my basis for forumulas and writing a bunch of additonal formulas in the "Notes" section of the book for any extra formulas the book didn't already have.

Good luck in October. Third times the charm!


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## kduff70 (May 29, 2015)

thank you all


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## PEoct (May 29, 2015)

wow cant believe but i am still here running for 4th time in October. don't loose hope,,,,,, what really matters is YOU PASS no when u pass.


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## PEoct (May 29, 2015)

wow, i think by now everyone knows me, ,,,,,,, i failed 3rd time, and gosh i dnt know what in the world should i do to pass this exam,,,, i am just devastated at this point,,,,, i put so much efforts , hard work every time,,,,,,,, but i guess its not my time yet........ so many thoughts are running in my ,,,, shall i take break ,,,,,, or take classes or just again try of my own one more time....... i dnt think trying of my own will change something,,,,,,,, i so close to point to give up  never felt such a ashamed of my self before.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 29, 2015)

PEoct said:


> wow, i think by now everyone knows me, ,,,,,,, i failed 3rd time, and gosh i dnt know what in the world should i do to pass this exam,,,, i am just devastated at this point,,,,, i put so much efforts , hard work every time,,,,,,,, but i guess its not my time yet........ so many thoughts are running in my ,,,, shall i take break ,,,,,, or take classes or just again try of my own one more time....... i dnt think trying of my own will change something,,,,,,,, i so close to point to give up  never felt such a ashamed of my self before.


I posted my reply I have copied below on another thread. You need to take a week or two and identify the "why". You most likely need to reevaluate your habits, notes, references, etc. If you have prepped the same way 3 times with the same results, it may be time to shake things up a bit.

Read through what I said, see if this gives you a different perspective.

_I took the test 4 times before I passed. I have seen on various threads around here that says you need to change your technique._

Personally, I stopped doing practice problems. I felt they did not reflect what I saw in the exam. Instead, I focused on trying to fully understand the concepts and various ways they ask the same question and where to locate the formulas. I guess I don't get how someone with a 4 year degree can't handle a timed test. But that's just my opinion.

You've taken the test, so you know the format. It's up to you if you want to adjust your study habits or not. I tried the same way 3 times with the same results. I switched it up and it worked for me. No one can tell you how you need to study, only you know how you learn. Keep at it and don't beat yourself up, it's a tough test.

Best of luck to all repeat takers.


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## jagster (May 29, 2015)

Hi PEoct,

I am very sorry to hear that you did not pass for the third time. Don't loose hope. I know how much you prepared while we were communicating back and forth during the preparation for Oct 14 exam. my buddy who took the exam for the 4th time passed it this time. I am sure you will pass. good luck. I think you should find a study partner now. sometimes you would be amazed how different a second person will think a similar problem. I was able to understand lot of topics/problems from the other people in the study group.


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## PEoct (May 29, 2015)

jagster said:


> Hi PEoct,
> 
> I am very sorry to hear that you did not pass for the third time. Don't loose hope. I know how much you prepared while we were communicating back and forth during the preparation for Oct 14 exam. my buddy who took the exam for the 4th time passed it this time. I am sure you will pass. good luck. I think you should find a study partner now. sometimes you would be amazed how different a second person will think a similar problem. I was able to understand lot of topics/problems from the other people in the study group.


ya i remember u , i know its so frustrating but thing for sure is that i am working hard but i need put my work it out using different direction,, i really need to bring change in my studying style....... ya u are right i wish i had group to work out with... well lets see time to get back again.

thank you for your kind words


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## upchuckjunk PE (May 29, 2015)

Hang in there and try again. I failed once a year ago, passed this April.

Here is what I changed in my studying:

1) less practice problems (I used the NCEES study guide, Graffeo below and Spin Up, about 1/2 of the problems)

2) bought and studied this book, cover to cover.

The Electrical Engineer's Guide to Passing the Power PE Exam ,Alexander S Graffeo, PE
It has so much information regarding odd topics and obscure information regarding power systems.

3) I built up a better archive or synopsis of formulas and example problems.

4) Learned the MVA method for fault current calculations:

short circuit abc by moon Yuen

5) I started studying earlier, around Thanksgiving last year. My advice, start studying again soon,
you will need to keep everything fairly fresh in your head.

6) Remember, if you miss a sample problem, figure out why and rework the problem a few days later to validate your memory.
I made sure I understood the theory behind the problems, not just how to solve that particular problem.

7) I brushed up on basic single and three phase power circuits and thoery, some things I don't use in my job.

I also studied the NEC code more in depth than I did last time. Mike Holt's website is a great reference, I used his online tests for free to help out.

www.mikeholt.com

8) Finally, I didn't take any timed tests, I don't seem to have issues with time on these type of exams.

There are parts of each exam that I didn't know, but using the steps above, I was able to reduce the number of questions I had to guess on by at least half this last time.

I used the Graffeo book on about 1/3 of my questions.

My books:

The Electrical Engineer's Guide to Passing the Power PE Exam, Alexander S Graffeo, PE  (used alot)
Electrical Engineering Reference Manual for the PE Exam, 5th Edition, Jun 1997, by Raymond B. Yarbrough (used on 3 questions)
Power Systems Analysis, Grainger, 1994 
Schaum's Outline of Electrical Power Systems, 1989,Syed Nasar  (not much use, but it may have given me one answer)
Power Systems Analysis and Design, 2007, J. Duncan Glover and Mulukutla S. Sarma
Electric Machinery Fundamentals,  2003, Stephen Chapman ( I used this one a lot on the exam)
NEC 2014
NFPA 70e 2012
Ugly's 2014
MVA Method - Short Circuit ABC, Moon Yuen - paper
Transformer maintenance documents from ABB and GE
Protective Relaying White Paper from ABB

Personal Notebooks for NCEES Practice Problems with solutions, Formula Sheets, Worked problems and examples


Good luck!


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## jagster (May 29, 2015)

Graffeo book helped me a lot when I took the exam back in oct 2014. There are a lot of mistakes on the sample exam, but over all the book is worth each penny for passing the exam. I sold that to someone and now I am cussing myself for not keeping it and selling it for mere $40.


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## knight1fox3 (May 29, 2015)

PEoct said:


> jagster said:
> 
> 
> > Hi PEoct,
> ...


I forget, have you already tried taking a review course?


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## PEoct (May 31, 2015)

knight1fox3 said:


> PEoct said:
> 
> 
> > jagster said:
> ...


no yet, but i am going with review courses this time  i really need different approach, studying on my own not working i guess. beacuse i put more than 400 hrs but something is not going right...


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 1, 2015)

^ I think it could help you look at your studies in a different way by seeing how a review course is organized. Good luck! :thumbs:


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## Kovz (Jun 1, 2015)

jagster said:


> Graffeo book helped me a lot when I took the exam back in oct 2014. There are a lot of mistakes on the sample exam, but over all the book is worth each penny for passing the exam. I sold that to someone and now I am cussing myself for not keeping it and selling it for mere $40.




Graffeo has a list of errata on his website to correct any mistakes. But I believe any new purchases would have the errors fixed. Besides for my custom binder, that's one of the only books I kept and I'm not selling. I had a ton of notes and highlighting in it anyway though.


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## khaled (Jun 1, 2015)

PEoct said:


> knight1fox3 said:
> 
> 
> > PEoct said:
> ...


A review course will help majorly, more so the material they give you. I figured that doing all these practice exams and problems was not working for me, so I took a course, and studied the material well enough to know where every topic is and have a good understanding of it. I would also advise you to go online and print out some articles about a bunch of different topics that are exam related, that would help too! I am sorry to hear you didn't make this time, but you will make it next time! Keep your head up you got this!


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## MyBeardAndMe (Jun 1, 2015)

I only updated my copy of Graffeo with errata corrections because I intended to sell it back. Now I am wondering if I should keep it...


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## jagster (Jun 1, 2015)

I would keep it. I am sure it is good for quick electrical reference. I bought the book over the weekend for $45 on ebay. No regrets though.


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## wjrez (Jun 1, 2015)

I am a 3 time loser in the PE Power exam too. I won 't give in. My scores have all been close, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I think I can base my failures on the inability to devote the necessary study time to not only do problems, but also to understand them and then recognize them (and their variations) in the exam. I have now decided to wait for the April exam to give it another shot. Not only to give me a break, but to get through my crushing work schedule that made it very difficult to come home after 10 or 12 hours to then do some serious studying. I am hoping that I can pick it up after Thanksgiving. Got to keep pushing! Good luck to all that have got to go through this again and to those that don't have to, then I envy you!


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Jun 2, 2015)

wjrez said:


> I am a 3 time loser in the PE Power exam too. I won 't give in. My scores have all been close, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I think I can base my failures on the inability to devote the necessary study time to not only do problems, but also to understand them and then recognize them (and their variations) in the exam. I have now decided to wait for the April exam to give it another shot. Not only to give me a break, but to get through my crushing work schedule that made it very difficult to come home after 10 or 12 hours to then do some serious studying. I am hoping that I can pick it up after Thanksgiving. Got to keep pushing! Good luck to all that have got to go through this again and to those that don't have to, then I envy you!


Best of luck to to you. I've been where you are and it sucks. Enjoy the summer and bust it out this winter!


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## kduff70 (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm trying to figure a better more precise way to study again for this test I do feel I need to try study principle and not so much the exam problems .I not sure if I should take another review course I heard some people talk about the GA Tech but I'm not sure if it will help with better understanding Principal or doesn't it just help you try to do better problem solving does anybody have any input on this . ?


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## KatyLied P.E. (Jun 2, 2015)

GA Tech is a good course. I took it and passed in April'14. Helped frame my study method.


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## Kovz (Jun 3, 2015)

kduff70 said:


> I'm trying to figure a better more precise way to study again for this test I do feel I need to try study principle and not so much the exam problems .I not sure if I should take another review course I heard some people talk about the GA Tech but I'm not sure if it will help with better understanding Principal or doesn't it just help you try to do better problem solving does anybody have any input on this . ?




I took the GA Tech course for the April exam and passed. While I do think it was a good course, and the binder was beneficial (I used it for a couple problems on the exam), I'm not sure if I necessarily needed the course or not. I would have used the binder more had I not had my Graffeo book. I used the Graffeo book as my main "go-to" source, but I probably would have marked up the GA Tech binder more if I didn't use my Graffeo book so much for notes and highlighting.

With that being said, I am the type that learns theory and principle from working practice problems. I can't just read chapters in a book and understand it. That's probably why I wasn't a fan of the Wildi or Grainger books. Nor can I sit there and watch recorded lectured without wanting to fall asleep. I did watch all the GA Tech lectures but it was hard to focus. I am better at self-learning by working through a problem, understanding why the answer is what it is, and how it can be asked a different way. Not just learning the correct answer for a given question, but why. I did watch all the Complex Imaginary videos on Youtube a few times and took notes and they helped me out a lot.

You have to figure out what works for you. Some people learn better by reading a chapter or watching a lecture or being in a class. Others learn better by working practice problems.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Jun 3, 2015)

The why is what one needs to pass imo. The Graffeo book is invaluable, it really cuts through a lot of the bs that textbooks contain.


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## kduff70 (Jun 3, 2015)

Kovz and Ken Thank you,

You just gave me some good insight I'm a working problem type person, but I think I have to do more of the how you can get this answer and breakdown every possible way you can work the problem by using the principle that apply to the problem. The thing that get me is I knew the type of problem that were presented on the exam but I guess I got stuck on alternative steps to solving the problems


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## JB66money (Jun 3, 2015)

Kduff70,

It is true that you need to focus on concentrating on understanding the principles and concepts of each topic. I believe the best way to achive this is that when you are solving problems or answering question is to try to identify those key principles and concepts used to solve the problems. Try not to get caught up in mathematical algorithms or particular problem types. This is important because when you go to the actual exam you will be trained to identify principles and concepts and not particular problem types or mathematical algorithms. Also don't waste to much time getting worked up on how some textbook solved some obscure convoluted problem during your study. Identify pkey principles needed to solve it but keep moving.


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## PEoct (Jun 3, 2015)

how u all practice NEC code question ? what really help in preparing NEC ?

can u please share the material that will help me improving my NEC part.

thank you


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## zm83 (Jun 3, 2015)

The NEC code drills familiarize yourself with the NEC. I have a copy forsale in the classifieds. I use the NEC at work so I am familiar with it. Also the Tom Henry Index is invaluable when using the NEC.


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 3, 2015)

zm83 said:


> The NEC code drills familiarize yourself with the NEC. I have a copy forsale in the classifieds. I use the NEC at work so I am familiar with it. Also the Tom Henry Index is invaluable when using the NEC.


In addition the Mike Holt forums are a good resource as well if you have specific questions and/or care to discuss certain topics in greater detail.


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## PEoct (Jun 3, 2015)

kduff70 said:


> Kovz and Ken Thank you,
> 
> You just gave me some good insight I'm a working problem type person, but I think I have to do more of the how you can get this answer and breakdown every possible way you can work the problem by using the principle that apply to the problem. The thing that get me is I knew the type of problem that were presented on the exam but I guess I got stuck on alternative steps to solving the problems


so true , understanding the concepts and fundamental is the only KEY TO PASS. i really tried to get dept of electromagnetic machinery and i did above average at least that made me happy ! so now i know there is no short cut. we have to get our concepts clear !


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## Kovz (Jun 3, 2015)

zm83 said:


> The NEC code drills familiarize yourself with the NEC. I have a copy forsale in the classifieds. I use the NEC at work so I am familiar with it. Also the Tom Henry Index is invaluable when using the NEC.




lusone:

The Tom Henry index is great. I had an older one from the 2005 code that I got for free from someone on the boards. It worked fine and matched up with article numbers for the most part. But for the price of the new 2014, I would probably buy it because it's so cheap.

Like ZM83, I work with the code at work. But the CI NEC Drill book was helpful, and also working NEC practice problems in CI, Spin-Up, and NCEES exams. GA Tech Binder has a helpful section of practice problems for the code as well.


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## kduff70 (Jun 3, 2015)

Yes I think Nec Drill helps and the tom henry I did ok on that section of the exam i guess that one postive thing


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## jagster (Jun 3, 2015)

I took Georgia Tech course in October and passed. It is really good. The prof Dr. William Callen is really good. if you have any question and send him an email, he will answer within a day. after I passed I might say that you can do it without the course, but I am sure course helped me in understanding some concepts. it is not that expensive either. I think it was around $1000. For me it is money well spent. I am a kind of person who is lazy and struggles to concentrate if there is lot to read.

For me Graffeo worked great.

I used NEC code drill book, which helped me a lot on NEC problems.


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## PEoct (Jun 4, 2015)

jagster said:


> I took Georgia Tech course in October and passed. It is really good. The prof Dr. William Callen is really good. if you have any question and send him an email, he will answer within a day. after I passed I might say that you can do it without the course, but I am sure course helped me in understanding some concepts. it is not that expensive either. I think it was around $1000. For me it is money well spent. I am a kind of person who is lazy and struggles to concentrate if there is lot to read.
> 
> For me Graffeo worked great.
> 
> I used NEC code drill book, which helped me a lot on NEC problems.


thank you all. okay so i am buying CI Code Drill and Tom HAnks stuff. perfect. one check for NEC. i will start studying in july .. till then i am trying to collect all the stuff and update my listing.  thank you all.


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## MyBeardAndMe (Jun 6, 2015)

I watched CI videos on youtube, did a lot of practice problems (NCEES practice exam a bunch, CI a few times, Graffeo twice, spin up twice), and just scoured the web for articles and any resources that people recommended on here.

Studied pretty hardcore for 3 months straight.

I also ate at Panda Express a lot. I got 3 separate fortunes that told me I was going to pass before the exam. Then about 3 weeks after I took the exam, I got one that said I was going to receive some very important information soon that would change my life.

Order fried rice and double orange chicken when you go.

Try this method and you will pass!


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