# Do you think the number of PEs will increase?



## JoeysVee (May 1, 2006)

Do you think the number of PEs will increase or decrease over the next 20 years here in the US? Will it become more or less important?

What are everyones thoughts?


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## rleon82 (May 1, 2006)

Probably decrease. Fewer kids are going to college and fewer are chosing Engineering as a major. With the Baby Boomers retiring, there are even fewer P.E.'s left. Sure hope my daughter follows in Daddy's footsteps.


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## JoeysVee (May 1, 2006)

Yeah, I know the amount of kids going into engineering is decreasing. That's why things like engineers week are so important. As the trend continues to decrease I wonder if the PE will lose it's importance....thus leading to less PEs? or the absence of PEs.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 1, 2006)

Engineering enrollment in colleges is on the decline? :blink: I didn't realize that. The attrition rate in a 4-year engineering program is pretty bad even for those who intially enroll.

I have noticed there aren't too many young engineering professionals in my day to day experience.

I do know that there are a lot of engineers out there in there mid-40's and older, where retirement or at least limited involvement are out there in the next 15 years or so.

I've since lost touch with old college buddies now that it's been a few years and I moved out of state. I don't know how many are licensed or at least on that track. I know quite a few that never even took the EIT.


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## Road Guy (May 1, 2006)

most of the resumes we get from new grads are all requiring visas and the like, seems there just isnt much interest, sad really. also if ABET is going to start accrediting foreign schools, that may open the door to a different type of problem. I read somewhere for every 1 engineering degree awarded in this country there are more than 100 awarded in India alone!


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## Slugger926 (Aug 3, 2006)

> most of the resumes we get from new grads are all requiring visas and the like, seems there just isnt much interest, sad really. also if ABET is going to start accrediting foreign schools, that may open the door to a different type of problem. I read somewhere for every 1 engineering degree awarded in this country there are more than 100 awarded in India alone!


Some of the foriegn engineering degrees are equivalent to and 8th grade education which makes the problem worse. Some of the big corporation managers who have no knowledge or care what real engineers are only want large headcounts. Large headcount = promotion rather than promotions based on performance. You can't be a director with 5 producing ABET acredited degreed engineers, but you can be a director with 50 non-producing guys calling themselves engineers doing the same workload.

Then this brings up the problem corporations outsourcing engineering work to firms overseas that aren't licensed in the US, and don't have PE's. Then since it takes someone to report this activity, how can this activity be audited and caught?


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## EdinNO (Aug 3, 2006)

Let 'em declinie. SHouldn't that make us more important? Supply and demand? :dunno:

Ed


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## NSEARCH (Aug 3, 2006)

> > most of the resumes we get from new grads are all requiring visas and the like, seems there just isnt much interest, sad really. also if ABET is going to start accrediting foreign schools, that may open the door to a different type of problem. I read somewhere for every 1 engineering degree awarded in this country there are more than 100 awarded in India alone!
> 
> 
> Some of the foriegn engineering degrees are equivalent to and 8th grade education which makes the problem worse. Some of the big corporation managers who have no knowledge or care what real engineers are only want large headcounts. Large headcount = promotion rather than promotions based on performance. You can't be a director with 5 producing ABET acredited degreed engineers, but you can be a director with 50 non-producing guys calling themselves engineers doing the same workload.
> ...


How does all the design work that is outsourced get through all the regulatory and permitting agencies in the US without being signed and sealed by a licensed PE of the state where the work is being conducted?

My thoughts are that US PE's will become more valuable as time clicks by.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Aug 3, 2006)

> Some of the foriegn engineering degrees are equivalent to and 8th grade education which makes the problem worse.


I worked on a few projects with this engineer from one of our other offices. He's a civil/structural. He knows his shit, and it's obvious he more than meets the requirements to be a PE.

But, he's from Canada. He went to school in Toronto. A reputable school I've heard of. Everytime he tries to get licensed in another state, they hang him out to dry for 4-6 months trying to figure out what to do with his educational experience, before ultimately granting him a license.

So if that do that with someone from Canada, I'd imagine the states are pretty diligent checking into degrees from 3rd world schools you've never heard of.



> My thoughts are that US PE's will become more valuable as time clicks by.


I agree. The engineering community is becoming more technical and specialized all the time. The average person is becoming less and less likely to be able to get something designed and permitted. And, in many cases, a P.E. is just flat out required to certify/sign off on something.

I'm off to oversee some very basic construction next week, simply because the state told the client that they require a licensed P.E. to inspect and certify the construction.


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## EdinNO (Aug 3, 2006)

> I'm off to oversee some very basic construction next week, simply because the state told the client that they require a licensed P.E. to inspect and certify the construction.


Sweet! That's what I'm talking about! Brings home the idea that this PE license can be a good thing!

Ed


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## SCPE (Aug 3, 2006)

Will the # of PE's increase?

No. Not according to presentation giving by one of our state board members. In fact the number are decreasing quite significantly along with land surveyors.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Aug 3, 2006)

> > I'm off to oversee some very basic construction next week, simply because the state told the client that they require a licensed P.E. to inspect and certify the construction.
> 
> 
> Sweet! That's what I'm talking about! Brings home the idea that this PE license can be a good thing!
> ...


Well, it's simply a matter of watching 8 monitoring wells being installed.

The client was supposed to do it, but when the state performed an inspection, there was nothing near acceptable.

It was their requirement to have a PE on-site inspecting it, in no small part because it really has to be done according to plan if a PE is willing to put his name on it.


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## EdinNO (Aug 3, 2006)

> Will the # of PE's increase?
> No. Not according to presentation giving by one of our state board members. In fact the number are decreasing quite significantly along with land surveyors.


As long as the need remains the same or rises, it will be great news for us!

More need for PEs + less PEs available = Better pay and more job security for us!

Ed


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## rleon82 (Aug 3, 2006)

Do I smell more pay? Yes! Bring it on.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Aug 3, 2006)

> More need for PEs + less PEs available = Better pay and more job security for us!


This is why I love all the high school dropouts with two kids in my town. Less people who will be out to take my job one day. ;hea51


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## Dean Agnostic (Apr 30, 2018)

RIP - VTEnviro said:


> I agree. The engineering community is becoming more technical and specialized all the time. The average person is becoming less and less likely to be able to get something designed and permitted. And, in many cases, a P.E. is just flat out required to certify/sign off on something.


Fact!


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## geomane (Apr 30, 2018)

No one wants to be a geotech, so I should be good


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## bwin12 (May 1, 2018)

This thread is 12 years old and discussing long term ramifications on the engineering field. Does anyone have any recent info answering the initial question?


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## Szar (May 1, 2018)

Decrease and be significant. 

Every Consulting company I've worked for on the building / facilities / Utilities side on the EAST Coast (not a town, state, or region, but the entire COAST) has had significantly difficulty finding qualified Electrical PE's. 

I'm talking companies ranging from 1 office locations to one of the top 5 engineering firms in the world.  People are:


Getting stupider (no one understands anything that they use on daily basis anymore)

Not getting into the building trades in general because its not sexy (I mean, who wants to design a power distribution system for a waste water treatment plant when they can work in a Google Hive Mind complex with bean bag chairs?)

Schools are not teaching useful engineering trades (I had .5 power courses in Power.  .5 because the course was a green energy course that had 1 day on 3Ø power.  The rest was Circuits, Programming, hardware, EMAGs, etc)

Pay (The Google is willing to pay absurd amounts of money.  Industry... not so much)


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## sambisu (May 4, 2018)

bwin12 said:


> This thread is 12 years old and discussing long term ramifications on the engineering field. Does anyone have any recent info answering the initial question?


https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/sei/edTool/data/engineering-01.html

https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/sei/edTool/data/college-14.html

Most engineering disciplines have continued to grow (in terms of Bachelor's degrees awarded per year).


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## sambisu (May 4, 2018)

And the number of licencees has continued to grow...

https://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Number-of-licensees-in-2014-and-number-of-licenses-since-1937.pdf


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## bwin12 (May 4, 2018)

Very interesting, thanks for posting the links.


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## Violator (May 9, 2018)

sambisu said:


> And the number of licencees has continued to grow...
> 
> https://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Number-of-licensees-in-2014-and-number-of-licenses-since-1937.pdf


I wonder if NCEES is including multiple licenses in other states for the same individual?


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## Szar (Jun 23, 2018)

Violator said:


> I wonder if NCEES is including multiple licenses in other states for the same individual?


They do.  if you read the top part this is just a list of each jurisdictions total.

If you go to the last table, look at the resident  column.  the total number of engineers resident in the US, as compared to non resident and which basically mean multi license,  has been basically the same hoovering around 415 k.


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