# Advice badly needed!



## tete9000 (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello there! I'll begin with a little introduction of myself and then I'll hit right into the main topic. I'm a Mechatronics Engineering graduate from the "University of Jordan"---Middle East Jordan--- I moved into Texas 3 months after graduation. I found out through research that Houston has an abundance of engineering jobs and thus decided to reside there. My only experience is a 2-month internship in an industrial automation firm back in Jordan. I graduated with a GPA of 2.84. Now I'll talk about this for a little bit. This GPA might look bad compared to US GPAs, but that's not the case back in my home country (at my specific institution). No one gets a 4.0 GPA back where I come from because there are no strict regulations on grading at my institution . A professor might use an averaged grading system or a scaled grading system if he felt like it. For example, I got a "C" in my 2nd electrical circuits course, despite being very competent on the subject. 70-80% of the students (approx. 160 out of 200) ---believe it or not--- failed this course when I took it. The highest grade that I knew of was a "C+". The same scenario (to a lesser extent) occurred with many different courses. There were other factors as well, but I don't want to appear as a complainer. I just wanted to give perspective about my GPA.

Now I'll talk about my skills. I have a fairly good programming experience with databases (Oracle), JAVA, Matlab, and Wolfram Mathematica in addition to the common engineering skills such as CAD and others. I consider myself to be a very good independent quick learner (basically learnt myself through college). In my 2 months internship I learnt to work with Allen-Bradley controllers, logic design, and development of HMIs for SCADA systems. Anyways, after sending for several job postings with no answer and a bit of research, I felt that (because of my GPA and foreign degree) that the possibility of being hired is ZERO. After a bit of research, I found that the best route would be to sit for the "FE" exam to qualify for the "EIT" certificate. Now my institution is still working on certifying their engineering programs through ABET. So I need to validate my credentials to qualify for the "FE" and then for the "EIT".

The outline of my possible course of action is as follows:

1) Credentials validation

2) Applying for the "FE" exam

3) Applying for the "EIT"

My only fear is that the "EIT" wouldn't be enough for the employer to prove my competence. I always loved Information Technology and programming, so now I'm thinking that the only way I can prove my competence and enforce my resume is by certifying my skills. Currently, I'm studying to obtain an "OCA" (Oracle Certified Associate) in Database. I'm thinking of doing the same with C# and JAVA. I'm a very hard worker and willing to do anything to prove my competence. The way I see it, there's no other way to distinguish my resume right now. If you made it here in my post, then you have my most sincere and heartfelt thanks, dear reader. Now I have 4 questions:

1) How do you think employers look at Mechatronics Engineering degrees?

2) Could you please recommend a specific institution for evaluating my credentials? Is the NCEES a good choice? Is it more expensive than other institutions because of its experience in engineering degrees? Or maybe some other reason?

3) What do you think about my choice of certifying my "IT" skills? Would this raise flags or anything?

4) What can I do to further strengthen my resume? Standardized tests? GRE? Certificates? Please speak your mind!

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance guys!


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## DanHalen (Jul 7, 2014)

tete9000 said:


> Hello there! I'll begin with a little introduction of myself and then I'll hit right into the main topic. I'm a Mechatronics Engineering graduate from the "University of Jordan"---Middle East Jordan--- I moved into Texas 3 months after graduation. I found out through research that Houston has an abundance of engineering jobs and thus decided to reside there. My only experience is a 2-month internship in an industrial automation firm back in Jordan. I graduated with a GPA of 2.84. Now I'll talk about this for a little bit. This GPA might look bad compared to US GPAs, but that's not the case back in my home country (at my specific institution). No one gets a 4.0 GPA back where I come from because there are no strict regulations on grading at my institution . A professor might use an averaged grading system or a scaled grading system if he felt like it. For example, I got a "C" in my 2nd electrical circuits course, despite being very competent on the subject. 70-80% of the students (approx. 160 out of 200) ---believe it or not--- failed this course when I took it. The highest grade that I knew of was a "C+". The same scenario (to a lesser extent) occurred with many different courses. There were other factors as well, but I don't want to appear as a complainer. I just wanted to give perspective about my GPA. I wouldn't get hung up on GPA's. _I know people who have a 2.0 and don't have any trouble finding a job._
> 
> Now I'll talk about my skills. I have a fairly good programming experience with databases (Oracle), JAVA, Matlab, and Wolfram Mathematica in addition to the common engineering skills such as CAD and others. I consider myself to be a very good independent quick learner (basically learnt myself through college). In my 2 months internship I learnt to work with Allen-Bradley controllers, logic design, and development of HMIs for SCADA systems. Anyways, after sending for several job postings with no answer and a bit of research, I felt that (because of my GPA and foreign degree) that the possibility of being hired is ZERO. After a bit of research, I found that the best route would be to sit for the "FE" exam to qualify for the "EIT" certificate. Now my institution is still working on certifying their engineering programs through ABET. So I need to validate my credentials to qualify for the "FE" and then for the "EIT". _The FE and EIT is the same thing. Taking the FE exam will only help you it will not hurt you one bit. It does give you more credibility and paves the way for you become a licensed Professional Engineer (PE). Having the EIT certification should help you and increase the chances of finding a new job._
> 
> ...




See my comments above. In this economy it's tough to find a job and most employers don't bother responding if they're not interested in interviewing/hiring you so don't take it personal.


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## Lomarandil (Jul 7, 2014)

Just to clarify Dan's comments above, there is a small distinction between passing the FE exam and earning your EIT certification -- the EIT will require both a passing score on the FE exam and graduation from an ABET certified degree program (for US schools, you typically send a transcript after graduation). However, in the practical world, hiring managers will look at passing the test as the majority of this qualification (they understand that the paperwork can be problematic). So if for some reason, you can pass the FE, but there are hangups validating your degree for the EIT, still advertise that you've passed the FE.

Unfortunately, there will be some confusion about your degree (both being from Jordan, and Mechatronics as a relatively new degree program). This isn't your fault, neither are actually detrimental in any way -- but the perception will by of wariness at least. Hiring managers won't have a lot of incentive to deal with an unknown entity compared to graduates from their university or the local campus.

Passing the FE exam and earning your EIT would be a huge step towards leveling that playing field. Granted, it's just one test, but someone who can pass the FE has obviously either learned a lot from their degree program, or has the drive to learn what they needed on their own. Either of these are definite green flags for a job candidate.

I also agree with Dan, your GPA is less of a hindrance than you think (except at some large companies with automated resume screening). Chances are that you will be most successful job hunting by networking -- and when a hiring manager is dealing with a person instead of a resume page, GPA tends to take a back seat to character, ability, enthusiasm, etc.


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## ptatohed (Jul 7, 2014)

Loma, Perhaps other states are different but in CA, you simply apply for the FE exam, pass, and your EIT certificate comes in the mail. You do not need to graduate to get your EIT certificate. I got mine about 1/2 way through college.

DH, good advice.

tete, relax a little dude.  I think you are over-worrying. Do not worry about your GPA. I don't think mine was impressive. If you are worried, don't even put it on your resume. Have you applied for the FE exam? Apply and see what Texas and/or NCEES tells you. You might already be qualified to sit for the exam. In the meantime, put together a nice resume and send it to the firms you wish to work for.


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## Lomarandil (Jul 7, 2014)

Oh, really? It was a big deal in CO.

I stand corrected!


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## tete9000 (Jul 8, 2014)

DanHalen said:


> tete9000 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello there! I'll begin with a little introduction of myself and then I'll hit right into the main topic. I'm a Mechatronics Engineering graduate from the "University of Jordan"---Middle East Jordan--- I moved into Texas 3 months after graduation. I found out through research that Houston has an abundance of engineering jobs and thus decided to reside there. My only experience is a 2-month internship in an industrial automation firm back in Jordan. I graduated with a GPA of 2.84. Now I'll talk about this for a little bit. This GPA might look bad compared to US GPAs, but that's not the case back in my home country (at my specific institution). No one gets a 4.0 GPA back where I come from because there are no strict regulations on grading at my institution . A professor might use an averaged grading system or a scaled grading system if he felt like it. For example, I got a "C" in my 2nd electrical circuits course, despite being very competent on the subject. 70-80% of the students (approx. 160 out of 200) ---believe it or not--- failed this course when I took it. The highest grade that I knew of was a "C+". The same scenario (to a lesser extent) occurred with many different courses. There were other factors as well, but I don't want to appear as a complainer. I just wanted to give perspective about my GPA. I wouldn't get hung up on GPA's. _I know people who have a 2.0 and don't have any trouble finding a job._
> ...


Thank you very much for taking the time to read my post and for your suggestions. As per "http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/lic_eit_exinfo.htm" " The term "Engineer-in-Training" defines a person certified by the State of Texas as one who is a graduate of an engineering program or related science curriculum approved by the Board and who has passed the National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) eight-hour Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) Examination." and "NOTE: If you have obtained a Bachelor's or post-graduate degree in engineering or related science and have taken and passed the FE examination in Texas complete the Application for Engineer-in-Training (EIT) Certification form and submit it to our office along with the $15.00 fee" So, the "EIT" can be applied for after passing the "FE" examination. While the "EIT" requires a credentials evaluation, I'm not sure whether or not the same applies for the "FE", but I'm willing to bet that this is the case as I'm keeping reading that the engineering program should be approved by the "board" under the section that handles the subject of eligibility.

I checked the link you posted, and the engineering programs contained belongs to another university in Jordan. While my university is considered the leading oldest university in Jordan, it seems that its second (in the link you posted) has managed to accredit their engineering programs through "ABET", which makes it "a first" in my opinion.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think "ABET" and the "Washington Accord" validate "individual degrees". I think they validate institutional programs. I'm sure this is the case for ABET, and since the Accord is some sort of a unification for ABET-like institutions, I think the same applies. But NCEES validates engineering degrees. Can I trust them with this task? Or should I look somewhere else?


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## tete9000 (Jul 8, 2014)

Lomarandil said:


> Just to clarify Dan's comments above, there is a small distinction between passing the FE exam and earning your EIT certification -- the EIT will require both a passing score on the FE exam and graduation from an ABET certified degree program (for US schools, you typically send a transcript after graduation). However, in the practical world, hiring managers will look at passing the test as the majority of this qualification (they understand that the paperwork can be problematic). So if for some reason, you can pass the FE, but there are hangups validating your degree for the EIT, still advertise that you've passed the FE.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be some confusion about your degree (both being from Jordan, and Mechatronics as a relatively new degree program). This isn't your fault, neither are actually detrimental in any way -- but the perception will by of wariness at least. Hiring managers won't have a lot of incentive to deal with an unknown entity compared to graduates from their university or the local campus.
> 
> ...








ptatohed said:


> Loma, Perhaps other states are different but in CA, you simply apply for the FE exam, pass, and your EIT certificate comes in the mail. You do not need to graduate to get your EIT certificate. I got mine about 1/2 way through college.
> 
> DH, good advice.
> 
> tete, relax a little dude.  I think you are over-worrying. Do not worry about your GPA. I don't think mine was impressive. If you are worried, don't even put it on your resume. Have you applied for the FE exam? Apply and see what Texas and/or NCEES tells you. You might already be qualified to sit for the exam. In the meantime, put together a nice resume and send it to the firms you wish to work for.


Thank you for your input. I have always realized the importance of conceptual understanding of my engineering courses. I'm actually looking forward to sitting on the exam, as I actually enjoyed the rigorous mathematics in my courses of integral and differential calculus, strength of materials and fluids! It'd be nice to use this accumulation of knowledge in the exam. I was disappointed when I came into the fact that the exam is a PASS\FAIL test. Someone in my specific situation would be better served with a scored test. However, it seems that every state has different regulations regarding the eligibility to sit for the exam. I could be wrong, but from the information I have gathered, it seems that the degree should be approved (validated?) by the board.


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## DanHalen (Jul 8, 2014)

tete9000 said:


> DanHalen said:
> 
> 
> > tete9000 said:
> ...




Yes you can trust NCEES. Seems like when I filled out my application for the FE exam through my state they had a check box for a foreign degree. I believe what would happen say if I went to a foreign school is I would check that box and the state would look to see if the school I went to is ABET accredited or has an equivalent through the Washington Accord. So if I went to a university in Jordan and the name of that school shows up in the ABET list then that means your school is accredited and you meet all the requirements to sit for the exam. The state will then tell NCEES you're approved and you meet all the requirements to sit for the exam. NCEES will give you an ID number and email you an exam authorization sheet a few weeks before the exam.

Let's say you went to a university in New Zealand (we'll use Massey University as an example). There isn't anything mentioned in ABET about schools from New Zealand but there is in the Washington Accord. The state reviewing your application to sit for the FE exam would/should check the Washington Accord and see that the program at Massey University is accredited (an equivalent to ABET). They would then transmit that to NCEES and tell them that you're approved to sit for the FE exam.

I don't think the Washington Accord validates individual degrees. None of the accrediting agencies do. This is more of a macro approach and they look at a university's engineering program as a whole. I remember one semester one of my professors worrying about ABET accreditdation and said our school was up for review. It's fairly standard I think for schools to be reevaluated every so often (maybe every 2 years?). My school meet the requirements with flying colors and everything went back to normal. I asked him once why should we care about ABET accreditdation and I thought he was going to shoot me. I can't remember specifically what he said but basically it was we couldn't sit for the FE and/or the PE exams to get licensed. He said as a civil I wouldn't hardly be able to survive without a PE license so yeah it's a pretty big deal.


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## solomonb (Jul 8, 2014)

tete-- You have received great guidance here. Get started by applying to the Texas board and begin the process for the FE examination. Today, you can schedule the examination any time during a 2 month block. Go to NCEES.org to learn more about how to register for the FE exam.

In Texas, you will receive (I believe) your score on the FE-- you do for the PE in Texas. Irregardless,it really makes no difference-- you are not a "better" engineer if you have a higher score than someone else. May be that way in Jordan, however is NOT that way here in USA .

Attend some Texas Society of Professional Engineer chapter meetings. The Houston chapter is a large chapter-=- lots of folks involved-- you will meet some folks there that will be able to help you get started.

As much as I read and understand, I don't know what mechatronics engineering degree consists of??? Tell me what it is? What is the course work? Where does one use a Mechatronics engineer? Is this a new discipline? Again, I don't know, so I am asking.

I suspect that because I don't know, others may not know either. If so, then you have the added challenge of telling us, in simple and understandable language what this degree consists of and why it is important today. I will also want to know how your background could help a firm seeking engineering talent. You can do this-- don't overthink the question, but trust me, if I don't know,t here are many others that don't know either.


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## tete9000 (Jul 9, 2014)

solomonb said:


> tete-- You have received great guidance here. Get started by applying to the Texas board and begin the process for the FE examination. Today, you can schedule the examination any time during a 2 month block. Go to NCEES.org to learn more about how to register for the FE exam.
> 
> In Texas, you will receive (I believe) your score on the FE-- you do for the PE in Texas. Irregardless,it really makes no difference-- you are not a "better" engineer if you have a higher score than someone else. May be that way in Jordan, however is NOT that way here in USA .
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I'm well aware of the triviality of "numbers" in technical fields. In fact, all proficient programmers that I know of have a GPA slightly less/higher than 3.0. This is no coincidence of course, as these people have spent their time developing their abilities instead of memorizing books. As an inexperienced graduate, I'd think that "numbers" have a sizable contribution to the possibility of being interviewed, especially so when my resume is viewed by HR departments.

As for your inquiries regarding Mechatronics degrees, I will try to answer them to the best of my abilities. The term was coined by the words "Mechanics" and "Electronics". My understanding of the purpose of the discipline is that of an attempt to provide a single engineer with the insight needed to deal with today's smart machinery. Mechatronics engineers have a broad range of opportunities working in the Automotive, Bio-medical, electrical, automation (along with many other) industries. I have friends working in the Automotive and Bio-medical industries. My course work included:

Digital Logic, Processor Assembly, Embedded Systems, Fluid and Thermal Systems, Static, Dynamics, Strength of Materials, Electrical Circuits 1&amp;2, Electronics 1&amp;2, Power Electronics, Power Drives, Mechatronic Systems Design, MEMS, Mechanical Design, Integral Calculus, Differential Calculus, DSP (Discreet Signal Processing), Signals and Systems, Classical Control Systems, Modern Control Systems, Fuzzy Logic Control, System Modeling and Simulation, Engineering Measurements and Systems, Electrical Machines, Mechanics of Machines, Transducers, Auto Electronics, Engineering Drawing, and Machine Drawing. I included electives and excluded common coursework with other majors.

As you can see in the list above, the discipline integrates mechanical, computer and electrical courses, with the addition of special electives. I worked on the theoretical design of a quad rotor flying vehicle as a final year project. My work emphasized on increasing model efficiency. I needed to do basic rigid body model design, drive system modeling, and control systems design. But my approach focused on accurate modeling of the propellers' aerodynamics. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to implement my design on a real-time model. It wasn't anything special, but it'd have worked based on my simulation results. Had I had the time to build the vehicle, I'd have needed an embedded controller.

As a Mechatronics graduate, I feel that I have a better overall understanding of engineering than other engineering graduates'. You could argue that I'm biased and you could be right, or that other majors are more specialized and dedicated to their coursework, and you would be right. However, that's the way I feel.

Many Mechatronics engineers work in industrial automation. As pumps, motors, controllers, switches and panels are present on any automated system, I'd say I'd be pretty useful in a similar environment.


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