# ABET - why do they restrict accreditation of Masters programs?



## Dleg

I recently learned something about ABET accreditation that has me scratching my head: ABET will apparently only accredit a university's undergraduate or graduate programs, but not both. So, as anyone would expect, the vast majority of schools choose to have their undergrad degree programs accredited. Here is a clip from the university I am currently attending for a distance-learning MS engineering degree:



> The Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET) is the accrediting authority for engineering and technology programs in the United States. Universities and colleges may choose to have their basic (undergraduate) or advanced (graduate) programs accredited. Nearly every engineering school, including [this particular] School, chooses to have its basic programs accredited by ABET.



Using the search function on the ABET web page, I found only one (1) ABET-accredited MS civil engineerng program in the United States, and four (4) MS programs in environmental engineering.

Maybe this is old news to everybody else, but I have to ask WHY???? would ABET want to restrict accreditation in such a manner?

Not that I'm complaining - it probably frees up the universities to offer more interesting choices in programs. If they were all ABET accredited, we'd probably be forced to go through courses that may be of no interest or use to us, especially since many of us (like myself) go for a masters degree later in our careers, and look for something more relevant to our jobs than might be possible if everyone had to follow the same format.


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## Capt Worley PE

Why does ABET do it? Dunno.

I've been told by university professors that the undergrad program covers the most folks and is more important, so they acredit that program. Plus, MS degree studies are pretty specialized, especially if you go the thesis route, and would be hard to document enough to meet ABET acreditation.


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## guitarjamman

My guess is that it keeps students from taking an undergraduate major in a different field/school from their masters work and becoming certified due to the MS work? Get your bachelor's from a non-accredited program online, and then jump ship to a local accredited university to get a masters - not really a fair deal to everyone who learned the theory and paid the money for a BS from an accredited school.


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## wilheldp_PE

Dleg said:


> I recently learned something about ABET accreditation that has me scratching my head: ABET will apparently only accredit a university's undergraduate or graduate programs, but not both.




That's not true any more. ABET now has dual-level accreditation...http://www.asce.org/Publications/ASCE-News/2008/05_May/ABET-Rescinds-Ban-on-Dual-Accreditation/

My dad is the one that got the rule changed. He's mentioned in that article, but he is incorrectly listed as being from the University of Louisiana instead of Louisville.


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## Dleg

^Louisville is the ONLY university listed for having an ABET accredited civil MS program.

How recent was that? I ask because I wonder why there's only one university...


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## wilheldp_PE

Dleg said:


> ^Louisville is the ONLY university listed for having an ABET accredited civil MS program.
> 
> How recent was that? I ask because I wonder why there's only one university...


Louisville's civil MS program was already accredited because before dual-level passed, Louisville only had its masters degrees accredited. They have a 5 year program with 1 year of co-op work experience and you graduate with an unaccredited BS and an accredited MS.

The dual-level passed a couple years ago (don't remember exactly). But a lot of universities didn't care about it, and some of them actively fought against its passage (I don't know why). So I wouldn't expect a lot of them to take advantage of the opportunity now that it has passed. It's a lot of extra work on the part of the faculty and administration to get more programs accredited.


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## Dleg

Well, I guess time will tell if it has any value. I just found it very strange that MS engineering programs were not accredited, and that ABET seemed to be the main reason for that. The article was interesting in that even ABET had no record of "why" that policy existed.

Good for your Dad, though, in getting it changed.


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## willsee

Dleg said:


> ^Louisville is the ONLY university listed for having an ABET accredited civil MS program.
> 
> How recent was that? I ask because I wonder why there's only one university...




Louisville's Electrical M. Eng has been accredited since 1933 or so. The BS became accredited in 2007? I think.

Big problem for people that only got a BS degree trying to get licensed. I had an issue with the state of Illinois regarding my license (I had both BS/M. Eng from UL) who said they only recognize bachelor programs even though I had both degrees from the same school. I just had to have a couple letters sent from the school to the Illinois board.


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## MWC PE

ABET accreditation is expensive to the school, I imagine that most are not that interested in paying twice. Besides a lot of schools 400 and 500 classes are often taught in the same lecture with different home work/projects/tests being the difference between which credit the student receives. I know that was true at both my BS and MS school anyway.


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## nicolerose

Hello all, I am not a current engineer but am looking into a MS in Biomedical Engineering. I have a Bachelor's in Marine Science and only need to take a few engineering courses to start straight into a Master's. My concern is that I do not have an accredited Engineering degree (the Master's is not accredited) and I do not know how that would effect both securing a career as well as obtaining a licence. Their Bachelor's is accredited; should I just go for a second Bachelor's? Thanks for any advice in advance.


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## Freon

I received my Masters (MSEE) from Naval Postgraduate School.  It is ABET accredited, but it only gives advanced degrees.  When I was on the ABET committee at USNA, I asked the question and never got a good answer.  My theory is that if a school meets the criteria to have an accredited BS program, they will "self-police" themselves and ensure the quality of their MS &amp; PhD programs.  For those who never lived in academia, top engineering graduate programs are more than a little aloof, or would "snobbish" be a better word.  .


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## wilheldp_PE

ABET just recently (last year or maybe the year before) passed "Dual Level Accreditation" which allows schools to have both a Bachelors and Masters program accredited.  Before, you had to choose one and could not get the other.  Since Dual Level was introduced, a lot of schools have been getting both BS and MS degrees accredited, but they are tending to wait until their ABET visit is due rather than scheduling an "in between" visit.  You may ask the Dean of the school you are attending whether they plan to get the Masters accredited on their next visit.  If they are, the degree may be accredited by the time you graduate.


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## Road Guy

Since most states require the bachelors for licensure I am not sure what it really matters if the graduate level programs are "abet" accredited...?? Maybe I am missing what the problem is???


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## willsee

Road Guy said:


> Since most states require the bachelors for licensure I am not sure what it really matters if the graduate level programs are "abet" accredited...?? Maybe I am missing what the problem is???


Well I had to jump through hoops getting my license in Illinois since they require a Bachelor to be ABET accredited.  Since University of Louisville at the time only the Master degree was accredited my license was denied so that was the issue for me. 

I also believe it's an issue when people get non engineering bachelor degrees and get an ABET accredited Master degree whether it should be allowed when applying for license.


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## Road Guy

That sucks but why didn't the school a credit the BS programs? Just seems logical since you can't get a license off just a masters degree alone?


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## Ramnares P.E.

Both the graduate degrees I have are not specifically ABET accredited.  Like RG said, the Bachelor programs at both institutions are accredited but when I asked about ABET accreditation for the graduate programs the answer was similarly murky.  I also believe, as RG said, that it's assumed that a school with an accredited BS program also has accreditation for their MS/PhD programs.


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## knight1fox3

@mudpuppy Out of curiosity, I checked to see if the MSEE program at MTU is accredited but I don't think it is.  Looks like just their undergrad programs are.


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## SoftSloth

Here are their program eligibility requirements : http://www.abet.org/accreditation/new-to-accreditation/eligibility-requirements/

Here is their accreditation criteria : http://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/


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## smahurin

I hadn't ever paid attention, but since I saw this thread and have applied or have looked to apply in 2 states most (these 2 at least) specifically state that the masters program must be abet accredited OR that the schools bachelors program be abet accredited.  Granted that doesn't help for those (UL and maybe others?) who accredit only the masters program, but it appears that boards are aware of this at least, and therefore just accept a masters program as long as the schools bach are good.


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