# Question about references and taking SE exam in a non-SE state



## dvtn (Nov 1, 2015)

I took my PE exam (structural afternoon portion) this Friday and am certain that I passed. Since the material is still fresh in my mind I want to continue on and take SE in April so I had a few questions.

I live in a state that does not have separate SE act but you can still take SE exam here. Do I just register on NCEES website to take the exam and wait for the board to approve it since they do not have a forming their website to fill out like they do for PE exam?

Second question is about references. I will be starting a new job in two weeks and I will be the only PE there. Assuming I pass SE and want to get licensed as an SE in a state like IL for example how would I get around reference issue since I will not be working under any PE or SE? Would they accept a reference from a city engineer who checked my work for example?


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## TehMightyEngineer (Nov 2, 2015)

It might be different but in my state (which is similar to yours) you need to get the state to approve for you to sit for the SE exam before you can contact NCEES. I'd email the board and see what they need to approve you to take the SE exam.


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## bassplayer45 (Nov 2, 2015)

Before Indiana gave me the shaft, I simply called them and said I was previously approved to sit for the PE and wanted to sit for the SE. They just issued me a standard letter and got me in. It was rather straight forward, but they need to tell you exactly what they want you to do.

The same references that got you your PE should be sufficient, but Illinois is pretty responsive. If you explain the situation, they will get back to you pretty quick. I already asked them about mine for when I eventually pass (knock on wood) and they stated the references I needed


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## gogo (Nov 2, 2015)

what is the reference that you are talking about? Care to explain it a bit.


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## dvtn (Nov 3, 2015)

I meant PE/SE references required for you to submit to the boards in order to get approved to sit for PE/SE exam. I know that my board required some recent PE references (within one year). That's why I was concerned about lack of future references. Say that it took me a couple of tries to pass SE exam (quite likely based on how difficult it is to pass SE exam) and I applied for a license in 2018 or something like that, then I would have zero current PE/SE references between now and then because I would be the sole PE in my company. I kinda wonder how other sole PE's get around this issue if they want to apply by comity and get licensed in another state.


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## gogo (Nov 3, 2015)

hey thanks. I don't think IL would accept city engineer as reference. They are very strict. you can submit application with all references demonstrating 4-8 years of experience and then I think you would be good for next 3 years. BTW may I ask iif you are so confident of passing, how much are you expecting as score?


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## dvtn (Nov 3, 2015)

anshu said:


> hey thanks. I don't think IL would accept city engineer as reference. They are very strict. you can submit application with all references demonstrating 4-8 years of experience and then I think you would be good for next 3 years. BTW may I ask iif you are so confident of passing, how much are you expecting as score?


I only had to guess on one question and that was due to me running out of time so assuming worst case scenario and that NCEES had a lot of tricky questions that I missed I still think I should at least have gotten 60/80 correct, which should be enough to pass. I felt really good about answering close to 65-70 of them correctly. Time will tell though. Last April I thought I did well on the morning portion but was off by about 6 questions from my prediction but was spot on about my prediction about afternoon portion. I did a lot more guessing back then too where I had no clue about some of the problems, which was not the case this time.


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## gogo (Nov 4, 2015)

dvtn said:


> anshu said:
> 
> 
> > hey thanks. I don't think IL would accept city engineer as reference. They are very strict. you can submit application with all references demonstrating 4-8 years of experience and then I think you would be good for next 3 years. BTW may I ask iif you are so confident of passing, how much are you expecting as score?
> ...


Good thing for you.

I am sort of in the same boat. My impression is that both AM and PM were of equal challenge. AM was good for me or so I think. If 60 is what it takes, then should be fine.

Any recommendation for SE refresher?

SofP takes about 2450$ for both. But PPI takes about 1750$ but has whole lot of material included along?


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## dvtn (Nov 4, 2015)

anshu said:


> dvtn said:
> 
> 
> > anshu said:
> ...


I don't know much about those courses. It crossed my mind to take a class but I think I'll self study again and see how it goes. If I fail spectacularly, then I'll take a course. I had some practice exams for SE exam that I used while studying for PE and think it is possible to pass without taking a course.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Nov 5, 2015)

The PPI review course includes all the materials shown here where it says "Required Materials (Automatically Included)": http://ppi2pass.com/se-live-online-course-vertical-lateral-forces.html


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## gogo (Nov 5, 2015)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> The PPI review course includes all the materials shown here where it says "Required Materials (Automatically Included)": http://ppi2pass.com/se-live-online-course-vertical-lateral-forces.html


Thanks. I was ready to go for it but the problem is the course starts too late. If only they could include previous sessions recordings (may be for some extra), I would sign up in a jiffy.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Nov 6, 2015)

Why do you say it starts too late? Do you feel you wont get enough studying done prior to the SE exam?


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## Andy Lin (Nov 8, 2015)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Why do you say it starts too late? Do you feel you wont get enough studying done prior to the SE exam?


Curious about this also...


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## smahurin (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm not sure if this will still be helpful, but my experience (in Montana a state that doesn't offer the SE license) was that I still needed to request exam admittance from the state.  I called the state and I didn't have to fill out the whole PE paper work (references, etc) again.  They simply made me submit a 1-page "Re-exam" request where I scribbled out PE and put SE-both sections.  It was pretty easy.

As far as the too late reference/question, I realize everyone is different.  But I didn't even realize I could take the SE in MT until what most would probably consider as fairly late in the game.  I sat for and passed the PE-structural in October 2014, and knew I wanted to take the SE but didn't know where I would take it.  I didn't realize I could take the SE in Montana until February of 2015.  I Applied for the exam in February, studied, took and passed both sections of the SE in April 2015.  Everyone will operate at their own pace, but I certainly don't view December or whenever as too late to start working towards next April if you want to take the SE.


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## Lungshen (Dec 10, 2015)

Since I first passed PE (structural I at that time) in 2004, when I took the New 16 hour SE in 2012, AR board just sent me an approval letter. I don't need to go through any working experience/education verification process for the approval to sit for exam.

PE references was a big issue when I started to get licensed in MA, IL, OR and CA since they require "SE" reference - I am not sure if "PE-Structural" reference will suffice but being the sole PE/SE is an issue when it comes to asking for references.

I would suggest you to join the local charter of Structural Engineer Association - Get involved, get active and get to know other structural engineers from your area or state, build relationships. You can then send them your work  and due diligence and ask your structural peers to review and give you a reference based on that. It is ethical as long as you don't offer gifts/money...

In my case, there were only (3) engineers taking SE including me. I got into talking with one of them over lunch break and kept in touch -

You just have to build your network of people.

Hope this helps.


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## dvtn (Dec 11, 2015)

Lungshen said:


> Since I first passed PE (structural I at that time) in 2004, when I took the New 16 hour SE in 2012, AR board just sent me an approval letter. I don't need to go through any working experience/education verification process for the approval to sit for exam.
> 
> PE references was a big issue when I started to get licensed in MA, IL, OR and CA since they require "SE" reference - I am not sure if "PE-Structural" reference will suffice but being the sole PE/SE is an issue when it comes to asking for references.
> 
> ...


That's what I was afraid of. The way I read it on IL SE application form is that you need to have worked under the supervision of a registered Illinois SE. I only know and worked under 1 registered SE and that was for about a year. My remaining managers have been PE's. How did you get your SE references for IL? Did you know all of them through work or did IL accept some references that you knew through structural engineer associations even though you did not directly work under them?


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## Lungshen (Dec 11, 2015)

That is correct. Illinois did accept the reference from SE's that I was "not directly work under" them.  You can always call and check with their board to be sure....just make sure you document the correspondence.

One of my SE reference was actually a colleague who worked together long time ago and he was a PE at that time but later became a SE. We haven't worked together but he was wiling to review some of my work and provide a reference.

The second of my SE reference was from the guy at lunch during the 16 hours SE exam - both of us passed 16 hours SE on first try. Got to know each other, super smart guy, and he was also willing to provide reference based on reviewing my work.

Same thing with California - you will need "SE" reference from structural engineers to licensed as "Structural". Mind you, references from Civil - Structural PE's don't count as SE. Though California have a net work of Structural Engineers who volunteer to review your work (drawings, calculations etc) and provide you reference based on those due diligence.

That process takes too long....It is much easier to just build your professional network with SE's around your area or state.  My two cents.


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## dvtn (Dec 11, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I will look into organizations in my area. Much appreciated.


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