# Table set up at exam



## bellalshaaban (Mar 22, 2018)

What was your table setup like when you took the exam?

Exam location?

Table size?

Number of people at each table?

Where did you keep your books?

Any other info appreciated.

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## knight1fox3 (Mar 22, 2018)




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## wyman (Mar 22, 2018)

NYC. Square card tables - one per examinee in a big gymnasium. I kept the most common books on my table and the rest in their bags on the floor.


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## ruggercsc (Mar 22, 2018)

I had 1/2 of a standard folding table.  I put all my books in a non-carryon type rolling suitcase that I put under my table.  I had my SOPE notes on my desk and my suitcase with everything else under the table.  I just reached into my suitcase when I needed the CERM or other code books/reference material.  The amount of reference material carried into the exam varied from a single backpack to a furniture dolly full of books in milk crates stacked on top of each other using bungee cords to hold them to the dolly.


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 23, 2018)

Maryland

~10'x~2.5' wood folding table.

Two at a table. 250-300 total exam takers including SE.

Books had to be stored on the desk, or beneath it completely. Nothing in the aisles. Anything that couldn't fit there or any non-transparent storage materials had to be stored against one of the walls far from the examination tables.

I took two milkcrates in with me. I unloaded one crate with the 9 books I knew would be needed and placed those on the desk. Six books 2 high, spines facing me in a row in front of me. Three books (which were essentially of equal importance to my calculator) were on my left and right. The other milkcrate was left loaded and stored under my desk. These were the books I doubted I would use but brought just-in-case.  I don't recall touching that crate or the books within it during the test.

The amount of reference books needed seems pretty tightly tied to the exam subject. I know some disciplines require a ton of books. Some disciplines not so much. I probably could have answered 65-70/80 questions using only 2-3 books for the nuclear exam, and those were the three I mentioned above. Nuclear is now CBT and they supply the sole reference book.


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 23, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Maryland
> ~10'x~2.5' wood folding table.
> Two at a table. 250-300 total exam takers including SE.
> Books had to be stored on the desk, or beneath it completely. Nothing in the aisles. Anything that couldn't fit there or any non-transparent storage materials had to be stored against one of the walls far from the examination tables.
> ...


This seems ridiculous to some but I’m planning on using this book cart. I probably have to take the wheels off to get it under a table. What are your thoughts on this?











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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 23, 2018)

The use of a rolling bookshelf is ballsy.

Where is the testing location? You'll want to ask someone who's tested there to see if its even a useful idea. You may need to contact the board to see if its legal. I don't remember the state specific testing rules being sent out until a few weeks before the exam, so this whole plan may be for nought anyway.

It passes the letter of the law in Maryland, as written a few years ago, if it fits under the table. If it fits it would only be in only one orientation though.  I don't know how effective the set up would be in practice. The spines of the books would be out of sight, under a table, and pointed towards the aisle 90deg away from you. It doesn't make for easy access.  I don't remember the rules for having to get up from your seat during the test.

I've heard a couple stories of engineers that brought in large bookshelves or boxes of books, setting up a mini-office around them. In none of those stories did I hear that the engineer passed the exam...


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 23, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> The use of a rolling bookshelf is ballsy.
> Where is the testing location? You'll want to ask someone who's tested there to see if its even a useful idea. You may need to contact the board to see if its legal. I don't remember the state specific testing rules being sent out until a few weeks before the exam, so this whole plan may be for nought anyway.
> It passes the letter of the law in Maryland, as written a few years ago, if it fits under the table. If it fits it would only be in only one orientation though.  I don't know how effective the set up would be in practice. The spines of the books would be out of sight, under a table, and pointed towards the aisle 90deg away from you. It doesn't make for easy access.  I don't remember the rules for having to get up from your seat during the test.
> I've heard a couple stories of engineers that brought in large bookshelves or boxes of books, setting up a mini-office around them. In none of those stories did I hear that the engineer passed the exam...



I appreciate your response. I see what you’re saying and I’m going to adjust. However, I don’t see the correlation between book set up and pass rate?


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## knight1fox3 (Mar 23, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> I appreciate your response. I see what you’re saying and I’m going to adjust. However, I don’t see the correlation between book set up and pass rate?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The correlation is having too many references can potentially hurt overall exam performance in terms of time to answer each question. Remember, each question allots roughly 6-1/2 minutes to complete. If one is constantly shuffling through references, this can really impact question response time. Not to mention the quantity of references that would necessitate an entire bookshelf. :thumbs:


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 23, 2018)

Book set up doesn't matter, other than saving a few seconds-minutes during the exam.

But there is anecdotal evidence that the pass rate is inversely proportional to the number of references brought (above a certain threshold). The theory behind it is that people who know the material enough to pass, don't need to spend as much time scanning books during the exam looking for [whatever], that they already know generally where to look in what book and how to apply it. Those individuals would know that they wouldn't need to bring certain references because they are redundant with other books, or generally irrelevant to the exam.


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 23, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> The correlation is having too many references can potentially hurt overall exam performance in terms of time to answer each question. Remember, each question allots roughly 6-1/2 minutes to complete. If one is constantly shuffling through references, this can really impact question response time. Not to mention the quantity of references that would necessitate an entire bookshelf. :thumbs:


Much more elegant than what I wrote.

I always got a kick out of the 6 min/question allotment. I know its an average and all but some of those questions are on the tails of the bell curve. I remember a few that could have been solved by a high school senior in 10 seconds and others that would have taken Enrico Fermi 20 min to solve under the best of circumstances.


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 23, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Book set up doesn't matter, other than saving a few seconds-minutes during the exam.
> 
> But there is anecdotal evidence that the pass rate is inversely proportional to the number of references brought (above a certain threshold). The theory behind it is that people who know the material enough to pass, don't need to spend as much time scanning books during the exam looking for [whatever], that they already know generally where to look in what book and how to apply it. Those individuals would know that they wouldn't need to bring certain references because they are redundant with other books, or generally irrelevant to the exam.



I appreciate all your guys help. I just wanted a level platform to put my books on with spine facing me. That shelf is only 16” or so long so it’s about the same as a crate. I’m only bringing about one milk crates worth of books. 


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 23, 2018)

I can tell you from experience that you should be able to line up one milkcrate of books, spines toward you on your table. Maybe you can bring book-ends if you want them standing up.


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## leggo PE (Mar 23, 2018)

Unless you're in California! At least at my testing location, they wouldn't let us have any books standing up on the tabletops.

Anyway, where I tested, there were two people per standard folding table  (probably 8" long). I brought in all of my books (for the Civil: Structural PE exam, so I had a lot) in two bankers  boxes inside of a big suitcase. I divided my resources into the two boxes based on whether they were morning resources or afternoon. There was a little overlap between the morning and afternoon for me. I then kept my primary box (whether morning or night) underneath my table, and put the other box in my suitcase (unzipped) next to me, in the aisle (our proctors didn't care about stuff in the aisle, as long as it wasn't too big/impeding traffic). On my tabletop, I chose  the things I knew I was going to need the most (i.e. CERM/EET binders for the morning, and my EET binder and the ASCE, concrete, and steel codes for the afterrnoon).

Hope this helps!


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## constructer (Mar 25, 2018)

After reading the comments above, I'm guess the contraption I have built (attached) ain't going to work out. Was going to use it as a rolling bookcase, but this won't fit under a desk, if thats what needs to happen.

Also, does this thing look as ridiculous to you guys as it does to me, or have you seen similar things on test day. Im testing in the Raleigh NC area.


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## youngmotivatedengineer (Mar 25, 2018)

If you need,  you can just place the crates on the floor but use the cart for hauling.  I would also reccomend rotating the crates for hauling.  If for any reason you need to try to bring the cart up/down stairs at the testing center you could risk the top crate falling or emptying out if you leave it as shown in picture.


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## youngmotivatedengineer (Mar 25, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> This seems ridiculous to some but I’m planning on using this book cart. I probably have to take the wheels off to get it under a table. What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you plan on getting the cart and books from car to testing center? If going to bring it in loaded,  those wheels could be annoying if you have to travel a long distance or if it's a bumpy path from parking area to test room.


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 25, 2018)

youngmotivatedengineer said:


> How do you plan on getting the cart and books from car to testing center? If going to bring it in loaded,  those wheels could be annoying if you have to travel a long distance or if it's a bumpy path from parking area to test room.


I ended up getting this from staples and it’s actually working great for the couple practice exams I’ve used used it for.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Mar 26, 2018)

Agree with @leggo PE.  When I took the exam in NYS books on the table were not allowed.  This entire thread is a bit out of control really.  To sum up:

1.  You may be best suited taking a generic staples box and packing the books so that when the box is on the floor the spine is facing you.

2.  As many others have stated, if you really need that many references, you may not know the material well enough.  From personal experience, other than the MERM and unit conversion book, I don't recall using many other references (ME T&amp;FS).


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 26, 2018)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> Agree with [mention=33510]leggo PE[/mention].  When I took the exam in NYS books on the table were not allowed.  This entire thread is a bit out of control really.  To sum up:
> 1.  You may be best suited taking a generic staples box and packing the books so that when the box is on the floor the spine is facing you.
> 2.  As many others have stated, if you really need that many references, you may not know the material well enough.  From personal experience, other than the MERM and unit conversion book, I don't recall using many other references (ME T&amp;FS).



I’m sorry if the original post wasn’t clear. I’m not taking 50 books to the exam. I have 4 books plus my practice exams and index binders. I was simply looking for the best means to have the books at the table. To be honest, I’m tired of people suggesting I don’t know the material just because I’m trying to get a sense of realistic conditions for the exam. It undermines the 200 hours of studying I’ve put into this exam. 

I thought this forum’s purpose was for questions like this (“anything about the PE exam”). Your opinion on whether or not I know the material can be kept to yourself. You should have kept your post to bullet point #1 and stopped there. How does bullet point #2 help anyone?


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## Ramnares P.E. (Mar 26, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> I’m sorry if the original post wasn’t clear. I’m not taking 50 books to the exam. I have 4 books plus my practice exams and index binders. I was simply looking for the best means to have the books at the table. To be honest, I’m tired of people suggesting I don’t know the material just because I’m trying to get a sense of realistic conditions for the exam. It undermines the 200 hours of studying I’ve put into this exam.
> 
> I thought this forum’s purpose was for questions like this (“anything about the PE exam”). Your opinion on whether or not I know the material can be kept to yourself. You should have kept your post to bullet point #1 and stopped there. How does bullet point #2 help anyone?
> 
> ...


If you're only looking for information that makes you feel good about yourself then perhaps you should not post on a public forum.  Also, if the opinion of others who have taken the exam and are providing insight is not important to you then perhaps you should not be posting at all?


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 26, 2018)

constructer said:


> After reading the comments above, I'm guess the contraption I have built (attached) ain't going to work out. Was going to use it as a rolling bookcase, but this won't fit under a desk, if thats what needs to happen.
> 
> Also, does this thing look as ridiculous to you guys as it does to me, or have you seen similar things on test day. Im testing in the Raleigh NC area.


Not ridiculous, I saw a bunch of people with a similar set up in Maryland. They just put the crates on the ground under the desk during the test.


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 26, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> I ended up getting this from staples and it’s actually working great for the couple practice exams I’ve used used it for.


I saw a bunch of these used when I took the test. It should be effective.


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## bellalshaaban (Mar 26, 2018)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> If you're only looking for information that makes you feel good about yourself then perhaps you should not post on a public forum.  Also, if the opinion of others who have taken the exam and are providing insight is not important to you then perhaps you should not be posting at all?


The only thing that makes me feel good about myself is knowing that an idiot like yourself passed the exam. Can’t be as difficult as I’ve been imagining. Thanks for the confidence boost. 

Telling people that they may not know the material well enough isn’t insight, it’s counterproductive to what the original post was meant for. 

Thanks to the other posters, you’ve been a tremendous help.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Mar 26, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> The only thing that makes me feel good about myself is knowing that an idiot like yourself passed the exam. Can’t be as difficult as I’ve been imagining. Thanks for the confidence boost.
> 
> Telling people that they may not know the material well enough isn’t insight, it’s counterproductive to what the original post was meant for.
> 
> Thanks to the other posters, you’ve been a tremendous help.


If you keep that attitude up, the last three letters of your username will be highly prophetic.

@knight1fox3


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## Vel2018 (Mar 26, 2018)

I read somewhere that you  can't put your reference on the aisle, so excess books got to be under the table. That could be a pain reaching your stuff under. 

I am now using a square card table about 4'x3', all my stuff can fit. 

Anyone took the test previously in NYC area? Do they get you this size of table? 

Thanks!


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## Vel2018 (Mar 26, 2018)

wyman said:


> NYC. Square card tables - one per examinee in a big gymnasium. I kept the most common books on my table and the rest in their bags on the floor.


Oh this one, what's the table size like? I am taking test in NYC area as well. 

If I get 4'x3' table I should be fine.


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## knight1fox3 (Mar 26, 2018)

Leave it to a bunch of engineers to over-think something that is really rather simple. Adaptation is typically another trait found with the engineering types. I guarantee the specifications of the table will be the least of your worries come exam day.



bellalshaaban said:


> The only thing that makes me feel good about myself is knowing that an idiot like yourself passed the exam. Can’t be as difficult as I’ve been imagining. Thanks for the confidence boost. Telling people that they may not know the material well enough isn’t insight, it’s counterproductive to what the original post was meant for. Thanks to the other posters, you’ve been a tremendous help.





Ramnares P.E. said:


> If you keep that attitude up, the last three letters of your username will be highly prophetic.
> 
> @knight1fox3


Indeed. 1st warning @bellalshaaban. Keep it civil. If you don't like/agree with feedback that others have to offer, then don't post/respond. So far you're the only one tossing out insults.


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## User1 (Mar 26, 2018)

I have had both sides - where you were allowed to have crates/bookends on your table, and when you weren't. also when you were allowed to have everything close by, and when you weren't. make sure you're adaptable, crates/boxes is probably wise as you can have your references organized and accessible and stacked or adjacent or on the table or under the table in a modular adjustable fashion. 

Civil Structural has LOTS of references! Don't judge us by our amount of *required* books to bring!  ld-025:


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## snickerd3 (Mar 27, 2018)

i had 18inch wide particle board folding banquet table with table cloth.  two per table.  kept most of the books in crate under table as the table was not wide enough to have books and test on it at the same time.  almost needed a clipboard under writing surface so the pencil didn't go through the paper due to the table cloth


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## User1 (Mar 27, 2018)

snickerd3 said:


> i had 18inch wide particle board folding banquet table with table cloth.  two per table.  kept most of the books in crate under table as the table was not wide enough to have books and test on it at the same time.  almost needed a clipboard under writing surface so the pencil didn't go through the paper due to the table cloth


you really mean so you could cut people if they looked at you funny - reason for clipboard


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## wyman (Mar 27, 2018)

Vel2018 said:


> If I get 4'x3' table I should be fine.


3x3 or so? But it's all yours. This was at Pratt.

It was bigger than the Ikea Norden folding table that I studied on (one leaf open at a time) in my tiny apartment.


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## Vel2018 (Mar 27, 2018)

wyman said:


> 3x3 or so? But it's all yours. This was at Pratt.
> 
> It was bigger than the Ikea Norden folding table that I studied on (one leaf open at a time) in my tiny apartment.


3x3 should still be ok. Thanks!


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## RBHeadge PE (Mar 27, 2018)

snickerd3 said:


> i had 18inch wide particle board folding banquet table with table cloth.  two per table.  kept most of the books in crate under table as the table was not wide enough to have books and test on it at the same time.  almost needed a clipboard under writing surface so the pencil didn't go through the paper due to the table cloth


Wow. Where was this?


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## KatyLied P.E. (Mar 27, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> I ended up getting this from staples and it’s actually working great for the couple practice exams I’ve used used it for.


That should be good.  I used a small hand truck and bungee corded two milk crates to it.  Everyone, including me, who could bring in multiple books sat at a medium sized, rectangular folding table. Only one person per table. I placed all my primary sources on the table arranged for quick access.  I also had additional books but I had those for moral support and kept them in my crates.

I'd strongly suggest visiting the exam location 1-2 days before.  That rolling crate should be effective anywhere.  But just knowing the layout of the place gives you a better feeling about things.  Might give you better insight as to how early you need to arrive on test day.


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## utilityeng (Mar 28, 2018)

constructer said:


> After reading the comments above, I'm guess the contraption I have built (attached) ain't going to work out.


Not necessarily. At my site we used long tables (I'm guessing 6' or so - one person to each table) and there was enough room beside you to store books on the floor without them being in the aisle. All depends upon the location and whether they enforce the "under table" rule.

I started out nice an organized and by the end of each test session my area looked like a bunch of books arranged a swinger party.


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## snickerd3 (Mar 29, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Wow. Where was this?


Illinois.  We were set up in a hotel banquet area


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## bsimms89 (Mar 29, 2018)

Vel2018 said:


> Oh this one, what's the table size like? I am taking test in NYC area as well.
> 
> If I get 4'x3' table I should be fine.


Same, that's about the size of my desk at work( which is usually cluttered with a lot more stuff than just my review material). Just gotta figure out how I'm transporting all my codes (for structural). Kinda annoyed tho NCEES on the Examinee guide says to bring snacks and non-alcoholic drinks, but on the Exam Authorization I just got it says "Please note: Food and beverage are NOT allowed in the exam area for testing in New York State." I was planning on bringing a couple water bottles and maybe some gummy bears, at least the water since it's (2) 4 hours sessions. Its kinda ridiculous they're saying we can't have any drinks. It's not like you're going to be sneaking in a cheat sheet on the water bottle since you can bring whatever references you want anyway.


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## utilityeng (Mar 29, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> Same, that's about the size of my desk at work( which is usually cluttered with a lot more stuff than just my review material). Just gotta figure out how I'm transporting all my codes (for structural). Kinda annoyed tho NCEES on the Examinee guide says to bring snacks and non-alcoholic drinks, but on the Exam Authorization I just got it says "Please note: Food and beverage are NOT allowed in the exam area for testing in New York State." I was planning on bringing a couple water bottles and maybe some gummy bears, at least the water since it's (2) 4 hours sessions. Its kinda ridiculous they're saying we can't have any drinks. It's not like you're going to be sneaking in a cheat sheet on the water bottle since you can bring whatever references you want anyway.


Honestly, unless you have a problem with dry mouth or some other condition, you'll likely not miss it. And in those cases, I'd assume they'd have to make an exception for valid medical conditions.

I purposefully didn't drink during the test so I wouldn't have to use the restroom. Every second counted for a slow poke like me.


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## lionsroar (Mar 29, 2018)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Gear-Cart-Black-222573/205441921

I used one of these. It held everything I needed and it was convenient rolling everything from my house to hotel room to the exam site. Being from NYC, I put a lock on each end during lunch time, so no one could snatch any of my reference materials cause they expensive! Also it was raining the day I had to take the exam and this baby kept water out of my books.


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## User1 (Mar 29, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> Same, that's about the size of my desk at work( which is usually cluttered with a lot more stuff than just my review material). Just gotta figure out how I'm transporting all my codes (for structural). Kinda annoyed tho NCEES on the Examinee guide says to bring snacks and non-alcoholic drinks, but on the Exam Authorization I just got it says "Please note: Food and beverage are NOT allowed in the exam area for testing in New York State." I was planning on bringing a couple water bottles and maybe some gummy bears, at least the water since it's (2) 4 hours sessions. Its kinda ridiculous they're saying we can't have any drinks. It's not like you're going to be sneaking in a cheat sheet on the water bottle since you can bring whatever references you want anyway.


i think it's more so you don't spill or get chocolate on your exam booklets than cheating. i got called out SO MANY times because i would drink from my water bottle and then forget to put it ON THE FLOOR instead of the table ooooopsies! my advice - bring a couple disposable water bottles and some granola bars, if they let you in with it, you're fueled, if they don't, not much of a loss.


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## leggo PE (Mar 29, 2018)

Wow, I'm really glad I was allowed food and water (I tested in California). I keep myself very hydrated during the day (and thus am very aware when I am dehydrated), and also have trained my body to eat at very specific times of the day. I was very uncomfortable during the 2.5 hour state specific exams! I can't imagine going 4 hours from roughly 8 am to 12 pm, then again from 1 pm to 5 pm (or longer, with the reading of the rules and such) with no food, and especially no water.

Good luck to those who have to do it that way! Hopefully you're not like me.


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## Surf and Snow (Mar 30, 2018)

lionsroar said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Gear-Cart-Black-222573/205441921
> 
> I used one of these. It held everything I needed and it was convenient rolling everything from my house to hotel room to the exam site. Being from NYC, I put a lock on each end during lunch time, so no one could snatch any of my reference materials cause they expensive! Also it was raining the day I had to take the exam and this baby kept water out of my books.


Well crap, now you just shook me all up. Does that happen? Forget just the price of the books, I'd be more upset that if I come back from lunch and find someone stole a bunch of my references, my afternoon testing is tanked. What do people do? Stay at their table during lunch? Take all their books with them? I'd like to think that proctors monitor the room during lunch break, and that in addition to ethics being a part of the PE, folks wouldn't want to risk being expelled, failed and potentially permanently banned to steal a $100 book. Hoping your paranoia causing my new found paranoia is just that, and not an actual valid concern or common occurrence...  :mellow:


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## youngmotivatedengineer (Mar 30, 2018)

Not sure about all locations,  but when I took it at NJIT in NJ, they locked the room during lunch. For rooms that can't be locked, I would imagine they'd have someone watching it, especially for all the test materials in the room.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Mar 30, 2018)

lionsroar said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Gear-Cart-Black-222573/205441921
> 
> I used one of these. It held everything I needed and it was convenient rolling everything from my house to hotel room to the exam site. Being from NYC, I put a lock on each end during lunch time, so no one could snatch any of my reference materials cause they expensive! Also it was raining the day I had to take the exam and this baby kept water out of my books.


I also took it in NYC but if I recall correctly, I left all my materials in the room.  I believe they locked the room and certainly by the time I returned for the afternoon session it was swarming with proctors.


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## lionsroar (Mar 30, 2018)

Surf and Snow said:


> Well crap, now you just shook me all up. Does that happen? Forget just the price of the books, I'd be more upset that if I come back from lunch and find someone stole a bunch of my references, my afternoon testing is tanked. What do people do? Stay at their table during lunch? Take all their books with them? I'd like to think that proctors monitor the room during lunch break, and that in addition to ethics being a part of the PE, folks wouldn't want to risk being expelled, failed and potentially permanently banned to steal a $100 book. Hoping your paranoia causing my new found paranoia is just that, and not an actual valid concern or common occurrence...  :mellow:


Sorry, I didn't mean to scare anyone. But like I said, being from NYC brings out the cautious side of me. Realistically though, I don't think you need to worry about theft.


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## Vel2018 (Apr 1, 2018)

lionsroar said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to scare anyone. But like I said, being from NYC brings out the cautious side of me. Realistically though, I don't think you need to worry about theft.


I don't think you need to be sorry. In fact, thank you! Makes my brain relax more knowing my stuff will be secured during lunch break. I just bought the same at home depot.


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## Surf and Snow (Apr 1, 2018)

I’m sticking with a backpack. Easier mobility. I’ll stick my books on the table or floor if I need to. Going with the K.I.S.S. method.


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## RBHeadge PE (Apr 2, 2018)

Surf and Snow said:


> Well crap, now you just shook me all up. Does that happen?


FWIW I've never heard any stories of things going missing during the tests. You shouldn't worry about it.

I can sympathize with the paranoia. I'm originally from Philly so theft is something I thought about too. To be safe they locked the room during the lunch period in Maryland - so the time window for theft by another examinee would have been limited. I doubt the proctors would even know what to steal.

I left everything at my desk. I was taking a rare exam so I figured no one else would take my references. I'd have to have been a random victim of a chaos muppet for anything to be stolen or moved around.

But when you think about it: you are taking a test with a bunch of people in the same situation as yourself. Everyone there has to have at least decent character level to be allowed to take the exam. Chances are a bunch of them will have security clearances or could get one if needed. Everyone is stressed out, solely focused on their own test and probably too emotionally and mentally exhausted to care about anything else. Unless someone forgot a reference, gets desperate, and has a serious lack of ethics they're just going to leave you and your stuff alone. Everyone wants to pass the test and doesn't want to screw it up by doing something ethically stupid like theft.


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## Surf and Snow (Apr 3, 2018)

Thanks @RBHeadge PE


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## Surf and Snow (Apr 17, 2018)

Following up so that this post might be helpful to some engineer searching for this in the future:

*Test date: *4/13/18 

*Test location: *Salem, OR at the Oregon State Fairgrounds Expo Center - Columbia Hall (research seemed to indicate its always here)

*Table set-up:* Very large 2' x 8' folding table, one person per table. You could put as many books on the table as you wanted. Any bags/boxes/bins/crates/food/drink etc... had to be on the floor, not allowed on the table, but you could have them on the floor right next to you. I had a small rolling suitcase that I kept right next my chair within arms reach. Sections were in columns of 10 tables with rows of 3 tables, per proctor (ie 1 proctor per 30 test takers in each section). I've read lots of stuff on here about evil proctors, but mine seemed pretty cool. Younger girl in her 20's, lots of tattoos, walked around in socks the whole time and was very friendly and quite sweet actually. Not to suggest the rules weren't applied of course, but she wasn't the nightmare strict evil proctor that I hear about.

*Time keeping: *Important note: There was not a single clock in the whole building. Wearing a watch is a MUST. From the time the test starts, there is not a single time check announced until the 15-minute warning, then 5-minute, then 1-minute. So for 3:45 you are on your own to know how your pace and time management is going. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND WEARING A WATCH! If you dont have one, or only have a smart watch, you can buy a cheap basic watch for &lt;$5. Do it. You will need it. And you cannot place watches or clocks or stopwatches on the table. It must be wrist worn.

*Security: *Everyone was required to vacate the building during lunch, proctors stay there. Video surveillance is present and posted. Everyone including me left their stuff at their table. I didn't worry. No one is there without being, registered I.D.'d and on camera. They'd be pretty stupid to try to steal a book and risk losing their ability to get a PE license, face criminal charges, losing their job etc.  

Without getting into the test itself, the test location experience was great. everyone was very nice, and having a huge table and my suitcase at my side was much nicer than what I've heard others experienced. Would recommend if you are between locations.


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## bsimms89 (Apr 17, 2018)

I'll add here too, NYC area it was given in a gymnasium at Queens College, everyone got a 2.5'x2.5' table for all their materials. Books, crates, and boxes coud be placed on the floor next to your table, but there was only 2' between your table and the ones on either side, could only have a couple books actually on the table at a time, not allowed a big stack. I was barely able to fit all my codes for the Structural depth under my table and on my left side (the area to my right was used by the person on my right). All other bags and items had to be left at the proctor's table, including lunch bags, water bottles, ect. You were not permitted any drinks during the exam. If you had to use the bathroom you had to ask the proctor for a pass, only one person in the section of about 50 people could go to the bathroom at a time, and the bathroom were out the gym, down a floor, and on the other end of the building so it was like a 10 minute round trip walk. There was no clock in the gym, and everyone was required to leave the building during lunch (not just the gym), everyone left their materials in the gym during the lunch break. The proctors were nice but serious, a lot more relaxed after the exam finished.


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## Vel2018 (Apr 17, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> I'll add here too, NYC area it was given in a gymnasium at Queens College, everyone got a 2.5'x2.5' table for all their materials. Books, crates, and boxes coud be placed on the floor next to your table, but there was only 2' between your table and the ones on either side, could only have a couple books actually on the table at a time, not allowed a big stack. I was barely able to fit all my codes for the Structural depth under my table and on my left side (the area to my right was used by the person on my right). All other bags and items had to be left at the proctor's table, including lunch bags, water bottles, ect. You were not permitted any drinks during the exam. If you had to use the bathroom you had to ask the proctor for a pass, only one person in the section of about 50 people could go to the bathroom at a time, and the bathroom were out the gym, down a floor, and on the other end of the building so it was like a 10 minute round trip walk. There was no clock in the gym, and everyone was required to leave the building during lunch (not just the gym), everyone left their materials in the gym during the lunch break. The proctors were nice but serious, a lot more relaxed after the exam finished.


Yup, my table was shaking lol and seating at that bucket chair made the test 20% harder jajaja


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## BEL (Apr 24, 2018)

I'll add some more info as @Surf and Snow did.

*Test date: *4/13/18 

*Test location: *Raleigh, NC (McKimmon Center at NC State University)

*Table set-up:* Large 2.5' x 10' folding table, two people per table. You could keep books on the table so long as they were standing upright or placed in such a way that the proctors couldn't easily see your test. Bags, shelves, boxes, etc had to stay on the floor. Food and drink could not be placed on the table, not even a bottle of water. I had a folding wagon that I rolled halfway under the table, this kept it out of the aisle and my books were easily accessible (photo below). There are multiple rooms in the McKimmon center, two big rooms (room 1 has about 330 people, room 2 has about 150 people, rooms 3-5 have about 40 people each). You don't get to choose which room you are in, you are assigned. Room 1 was laid out in columns with the center columns being two tables together, so not every seat is on the aisle. The proctors were pretty nice, it's a slow process passing out and collecting all the materials so expect to be patient. 

*Time keeping: *There were clocks in the big room 1, but I couldn't see it well enough from my seat for it to have been of use (I have 20/20 vision, do not wear glasses or contacts). Plan to wear a watch or bring a clock to go under the table. You cannot set a wristwatch on the table, it must go under the table or on your wrist.

*Parking: *Arrive early, there is plenty of parking but the later you arrive the farther away you'll have to park. The parking lot is on a hill so if you have a rolling suitcase/wagon/crate/etc. be prepared to pull it up a hill toward the building. 

*Lunch: *There are lots of places outside and inside to eat lunch. There's a cafe on site but it may or may not be open. There are lots of fast food joints close by. I packed my lunch and ate with friends at a table outside in the sun, it was a nice break. I didn't want to risk leaving the site to get lunch, just in case.

*Security: *The testing rooms were closed during lunch. You had to use your authorization and ID to get back in for the afternoon session. Don't leave your keys inside if you left your lunch in your car, I saw several people unable to get back in to get their keys and couldn't get into their cars during the break.

*Restrooms*: There were only two restrooms and one of the ladies rooms was closed for some reason. The lines got a little long but luckily there's a lot more men who take this exam than women.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (May 1, 2018)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> Agree with @leggo PE.  When I took the exam in NYS books on the table were not allowed.  This entire thread is a bit out of control really.  To sum up:
> 
> 1.  You may be best suited taking a generic staples box and packing the books so that when the box is on the floor the spine is facing you.
> 
> 2.  As many others have stated, if you really need that many references, you may not know the material well enough.  From personal experience, other than the MERM and unit conversion book, I don't recall using many other references (ME T&amp;FS).


Yep. I used just a handful of books. But the MERM and the Unit conversion book were always open.


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## Subsea (Aug 1, 2018)

Taking the PE MDM Exam in October, anyone have knowledge on what the setup is (i.e. table space, what the proctors allow in terms of placement of reference materials etc) at the NRG Park Location in Houston?


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## jtcrus31 (Aug 1, 2018)

An option that worked for me was to use wood crates as portable bookshelves.  I used them for studying and during exam day.


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## RBHeadge PE (Aug 2, 2018)

jtcrus31 said:


> An option that worked for me was to use wood crates as portable bookshelves.  I used them for studying and during exam day.


Was it vertical during the test? Which testing location let you get away with that set up?


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## Szar (Aug 2, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Was it vertical during the test?


I dont think anyone gets thaaat excited for the PE exam.


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## jtcrus31 (Aug 5, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Was it vertical during the test? Which testing location let you get away with that set up?


Yes it was stacked just like that for the test.  I wouldn't understand why a testing facility would have an issue with this. 

I had it set up directly to the left of my chair with the splines facing me.  If they allow plastic tubs and suitcases, they should allow this too.


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## Szar (Aug 5, 2018)

Because the testing facility is supposed to make sure the environment is fair for all takers.

The ncees specifically permits only certain items, so you put the proctors in a situation where they are supposed to interpret what ncees may or may not have intended and also create a advantage for yourself that others do not have.

A cautious administrator may deny it.  if you can show me where it states that a book shelf is a permitted test item, ill retract the above.


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## jtcrus31 (Aug 5, 2018)

Szar said:


> The ncees specifically permits only certain items, so you put the proctors in a situation where they are supposed to interpret what ncees may or may not have intended and also create a advantage for yourself that others do not have.﻿


Thanks Szar for your thoughts.  Because I don't understand the concern and I feel like I am in the twilight zone right now, I looked up what NCEES states in their requirements "The Candidate Agreement for Pencil and Paper Exams".  

They state "Examinees may not place *crates*, boxes, or bookends on the *desktop*" 

I used wood crates.....I stacked the crates on the floor.......I would also be willing to make the argument that my set up was easier to monitor / proctor....no one can hind anything this way...no pockets and everything is in the open.


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## RBHeadge PE (Aug 6, 2018)

Szar said:


> The ncees specifically permits only certain items, so you put the proctors in a situation where they are supposed to interpret what ncees may or may not have intended and also create a advantage for yourself that others do not have.






jtcrus31 said:


> Because I don't understand the concern and I feel like I am in the twilight zone right now, I looked up what NCEES states in their requirements "The Candidate Agreement for Pencil and Paper Exams".


There isn't much to try to understand. Every state and testing location has a slightly different set of site specific rules. Some states are more restrictive than others: some because they interpret the rules more narrowly, others because of spatial limitations of the testing center.


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## PB&Jelly (Aug 8, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> I'll add here too, NYC area it was given in a gymnasium at Queens College, everyone got a 2.5'x2.5' table for all their materials. Books, crates, and boxes coud be placed on the floor next to your table, but there was only 2' between your table and the ones on either side, could only have a couple books actually on the table at a time, not allowed a big stack. I was barely able to fit all my codes for the Structural depth under my table and on my left side (the area to my right was used by the person on my right). All other bags and items had to be left at the proctor's table, including lunch bags, water bottles, ect. You were not permitted any drinks during the exam. If you had to use the bathroom you had to ask the proctor for a pass, only one person in the section of about 50 people could go to the bathroom at a time, and the bathroom were out the gym, down a floor, and on the other end of the building so it was like a 10 minute round trip walk. There was no clock in the gym, and everyone was required to leave the building during lunch (not just the gym), everyone left their materials in the gym during the lunch break. The proctors were nice but serious, a lot more relaxed after the exam finished.


When do you get the official address to the " *Location:* New York City Area"  for the PE Exam?  I am assuming it is at Queens College but can this change until you get the exam authorization sent out 2 weeks prior to the exam date?


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## RBHeadge PE (Aug 9, 2018)

Sadly, it's only on the exam authorization. And they only send it out in the month before the exam.


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## leggo PE (Aug 9, 2018)

And occasionally they change it after the exam notifications have gone out! No joke, this happened to my coworker when he took the PE Exam 4-5 years ago. There was a motorcycle convention that wanted the convention center where PE exam is usually administered locally, and so it got move to another location with less than two weeks to go.

I think that's pretty rare, though!


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## bsimms89 (Aug 10, 2018)

It's on the authorization, also it might not be at Queens College, I know from a bunch of people most previous ones were at Pratt Institute, only the most recent one was at Queens College


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## User1 (Aug 10, 2018)

in western WA (wild wild west) april is in downtown seattle and october is in puyallup (about 1hr south of seattle)


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## Ramnares P.E. (Aug 13, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> It's on the authorization, also it might not be at Queens College, I know from a bunch of people most previous ones were at Pratt Institute, only the most recent one was at Queens College


Definitely took it at Pratt back in the day  ld-025:   I wasn't even aware it had changed to Queens College.  To be fair, Queens has better parking facilities though the food options suck.


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## tru2YM (Aug 16, 2018)

constructer said:


> After reading the comments above, I'm guess the contraption I have built (attached) ain't going to work out. Was going to use it as a rolling bookcase, but this won't fit under a desk, if thats what needs to happen.
> 
> Also, does this thing look as ridiculous to you guys as it does to me, or have you seen similar things on test day. Im testing in the Raleigh NC area.
> 
> View attachment 10966


That would work in TN. Similar to my set up for civil-Structural...


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## NY-Computer-Engineer (Aug 23, 2018)

bsimms89 said:


> I'll add here too, NYC area it was given in a gymnasium at Queens College, everyone got a 2.5'x2.5' table for all their materials. Books, crates, and boxes coud be placed on the floor next to your table, but there was only 2' between your table and the ones on either side, could only have a couple books actually on the table at a time, not allowed a big stack. I was barely able to fit all my codes for the Structural depth under my table and on my left side (the area to my right was used by the person on my right). All other bags and items had to be left at the proctor's table, including lunch bags, water bottles, ect. You were not permitted any drinks during the exam. If you had to use the bathroom you had to ask the proctor for a pass, only one person in the section of about 50 people could go to the bathroom at a time, and the bathroom were out the gym, down a floor, and on the other end of the building so it was like a 10 minute round trip walk. There was no clock in the gym, and everyone was required to leave the building during lunch (not just the gym), everyone left their materials in the gym during the lunch break. The proctors were nice but serious, a lot more relaxed after the exam finished.


I remember it well.  I was in the section group of tables up in the front left of that gym.

My biggest problem with the setup was getting my two plastic milk cartons containing books, from my car parked in a City street spot (on the LIE service Road), to the campus entrance, up that steep hill, and into the athletic building.  I had used some bungee-cords to try to hold it all together onto the small handled dolly, however the sidewalks were in such poor condition I kept hitting huge bumps, cracks and dips that caused by contraption to fall apart, and I needed to continually stop and rebuild my setup again, and again, and again.  Then in the room itself, there was so little space between the tables they assigned us to that I could barely move my chair from side-to-side or front to back, due to the crates of the people near my seat.  Also, not having water to drink was absolutely horrific, along with the lack of clocks in that room which forced me to wear the cheap Timex watch I brought as a backup (since they would not let us put it on the desk), that was biting into skin of my wrist.  I was starting to wonder if I bought myself a ticket into hades.

As I drove home after the test, I began planning how I would do things differently if I had to re-take the test in October.  Arriving much earlier so I could get a closer parking spot, a full-size wagon or cart to transport my books, and a better watch with a leather band.  I thank the Lord I will not need to do any of that by his allowing me to pass.

By the way, I never did unpack my setup after getting home, so I will try and post a picture to this response later to show everyone taking the test next time in New York City what "not" to do.


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## PB&Jelly (Sep 5, 2018)

NY-Computer-Engineer said:


> I remember it well.  I was in the section group of tables up in the front left of that gym.
> 
> My biggest problem with the setup was getting my two plastic milk cartons containing books, from my car parked in a City street spot (on the LIE service Road), to the campus entrance, up that steep hill, and into the athletic building.  I had used some bungee-cords to try to hold it all together onto the small handled dolly, however the sidewalks were in such poor condition I kept hitting huge bumps, cracks and dips that caused by contraption to fall apart, and I needed to continually stop and rebuild my setup again, and again, and again.  Then in the room itself, there was so little space between the tables they assigned us to that I could barely move my chair from side-to-side or front to back, due to the crates of the people near my seat.  Also, not having water to drink was absolutely horrific, along with the lack of clocks in that room which forced me to wear the cheap Timex watch I brought as a backup (since they would not let us put it on the desk), that was biting into skin of my wrist.  I was starting to wonder if I bought myself a ticket into hades.
> 
> ...


Does anyone remember how long the tables were at Queens College or any test site?  When I took the FE there it was around 3.5 feet long and they were cheap and wobbly.  But when I asked NCEES about the regulation about the sizes of the exam table they told me 8 feet per 2 people or 6 feet for 1 person.  This supposed to be in the Proctor Manual.  Did queens college ever change this?


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## Surf and Snow (Sep 5, 2018)

Mine was 6 or 8 ft long. One person per table. This was Salem, OR at the State Fair Expo building.

ymmv


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## NY-Computer-Engineer (Sep 5, 2018)

PB&amp;Jelly said:


> Does anyone remember how long the tables were at Queens College or any test site?  When I took the FE there it was around 3.5 feet long and they were cheap and wobbly.  But when I asked NCEES about the regulation about the sizes of the exam table they told me 8 feet per 2 people or 6 feet for 1 person.  This supposed to be in the Proctor Manual.  Did queens college ever change this?


The Queens College tables were no more than 3.5 foot square - sort of like the desks in the New York City High School I attended, but without the shelf.  The chairs were hard plastic as well - no cushion.


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## PB&Jelly (Sep 6, 2018)

NY-Computer-Engineer said:


> The Queens College tables were no more than 3.5 foot square - sort of like the desks in the New York City High School I attended, but without the shelf.  The chairs were hard plastic as well - no cushion.


Why does castle worldwide not follow NCEES regulations in the Proctor Manual?  Apparently other proctors like in oregon have the 6 or 8 ft long tables required by NCEES.  I am surprised no one has complained after all these years.  I do not think it is very likely that they will change the test site or buy 100s of new tables.


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## RBHeadge PE (Sep 6, 2018)

There's a proctor manual?


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## PB&Jelly (Sep 6, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> There's a proctor manual?


Yes, that is what NCEES told me.


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## RBHeadge PE (Sep 6, 2018)

PB&amp;Jelly said:


> Yes, that is what NCEES told me.


Right, but is it publicly available?


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## PB&Jelly (Sep 6, 2018)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Right, but is it publicly available?


The NCEES representative quoted the manual to me over the live chat on their website. Not sure if it is publicly available.  *8 feet *for 2 people or *6 feet *for 1 person.


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## KOKOMO777 (Sep 6, 2018)

bellalshaaban said:


> What was your table setup like when you took the exam?
> 
> Exam location?
> 
> ...


Ft. Worth, Texas

4'x8' folding table, 2 person per table

books on table and cart


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## PB&Jelly (Sep 6, 2018)

KOKOMO777 said:


> Ft. Worth, Texas
> 
> 4'x8' folding table, 2 person per table
> 
> books on table and cart


So far Castle Worldwide in NYC-Queens College seems to be non-compliant with the NCEES table size regulations with tiny 3.5 foot school tables.  Very odd.  Far off from the required *8 feet *for 2 people or *6 feet *for 1 person.


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## NY-Computer-Engineer (Sep 7, 2018)

PB&amp;Jelly said:


> Why does castle worldwide not follow NCEES regulations in the Proctor Manual?  Apparently other proctors like in oregon have the 6 or 8 ft long tables required by NCEES.  I am surprised no one has complained after all these years.  I do not think it is very likely that they will change the test site or buy 100s of new tables.


Not sure, but my guess is that after taking the test at Queens College there were many 'other' things on a persons mind to complain about.  For example:


No parking provided for the test takers (only the testing 'staff') - and in my case, having to walk nearly a mile from where I could find a parking spot on the street to get into the test center.

Not being allowed to access any water you bring with you until the lunch break or after the test is completed

Being forced to say outside in the sun (or rain If that was the case), for nearly an hour to get into the building in the morning, than again for the 1:15 during the lunch break

Having to walk to the opposite end of the athletic building to reach a restroom

No clocks on the walls at the front of the room (I think I saw one a hundred yards away at the far back corner, but did not bring my binoculars)

For me at least, having to reach down under the table for one of the references in my plastic milk cartons was actually a minor inconvenience.  I quickly realized I needed to swap some of the references between the floor and the table as the test went on.  It was a much bigger problem however, when the guy at the table next to me had one of his 5-inch loose leaf binders accidentally break open and the sheets went all over the floor (probably because he tried to get about 10 of those on that small table), requiring him and the proctor to walks around everyone's small spaces between the table to pick everything up.


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## KOKOMO777 (Sep 7, 2018)

PB&amp;Jelly said:


> So far Castle Worldwide in NYC-Queens College seems to be non-compliant with the NCEES table size regulations with tiny 3.5 foot school tables.  Very odd.  Far off from the required *8 feet *for 2 people or *6 feet *for 1 person.


There were over 800 people taking the exams at the Will Rogers Convention Center. It was divided into 4 or 5 separate rooms. I am sure it will be the same this October.


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## bsimms89 (Oct 23, 2018)

NY-Computer-Engineer said:


> Not sure, but my guess is that after taking the test at Queens College there were many 'other' things on a persons mind to complain about.  For example:
> 
> 
> No parking provided for the test takers (only the testing 'staff') - and in my case, having to walk nearly a mile from where I could find a parking spot on the street to get into the test center.
> ...


I can agree with every part of this, it was about a 12 minute walk round trip to go to the bathroom (just to walk there and back), you had to go out the gym, down the hall, downstairs,  across to the opposite end of the building, and around a corner.

I got dropped off for the exam and we got there 2 hours early just so we could find a place to sit in the car until they were closer to letting people in. 

I also found it ridiculous when we had lunch we all left the gym, went to the first floor of the building ( they locked the gym and had proctors in it) some of us were sitting on the benches in the entryway of the building eating lunch when suddenly the proctors decided we didn't just have to be outside the gym, we couldn't even be in the building during lunch so we had to go outside and find someplace to sit and eat there instead.

And like you said, not only were the tables 3.5' square, there was only like 1.5' between tables, so there wasn't a ton of space to put your stuff on the floor either. My material for civil-structural PE took up most the floor space under my desk and between my and the desk to my left (the person at the table to my right used up the space to my right) so there wasn't even room to walk between the tables once everyone got setup.


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