# Ethics Question - Lunch Beers



## menstrom (Dec 27, 2010)

I was having a conversation at lunch today about a coworker who frequently orders a beer (or margarita) at lunch. Aside from company policies, does anyone know of any state or NSPE standard that addresses the ethics of--to steal a term from some stupid T-shirt I saw in college--drinking and deriving?


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## IlPadrino (Dec 27, 2010)

menstrom said:


> I was having a conversation at lunch today about a coworker who frequently orders a beer (or margarita) at lunch. Aside from company policies, does anyone know of any state or NSPE standard that addresses the ethics of--to steal a term from some stupid T-shirt I saw in college--drinking and deriving?


I can think of absolutely no prohibition to doing any engineering work directly after the consumption of one normally-sized alcoholic beverage. Sure, there are plenty of work restrictions against the use of some equipment (think aircraft) having consumed any amount of alcohol within a certain time of operating... but I think it's an issue of reaction time, not judgment.

If you were inebriated, it's certainly a different issue.


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## roadwreck (Dec 27, 2010)

I think we need to consult bigray on this issue...


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## Dark Knight (Dec 27, 2010)

roadwreck said:


> I think we need to consult bigray on this issue...


You did beat me to the punch.


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## Dleg (Dec 27, 2010)

I've never heard of anything in any ethics rule that would prohibit one or even more alcoholic beverages during lunch. Public drunkenness, bad behavior related to alcohol consumption; yes.

If your employer is fine with it, then it should not be a problem (my employer prohibits alcohol consumption during all working hours including lunch). The most important thing to consider is probably whether or not it would seem unprofessional to a client if they saw you drinking a beer at lunch.


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## Flyer_PE (Dec 27, 2010)

Depends on where you work. The NRC policy for nuclear facilities is that you are not considered fit for duty if you have consumed any alcohol within five hours of reporting for work. I stick to non-alcoholic beverages during working hours whether I'm working nuclear or not.


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## IlPadrino (Dec 28, 2010)

Flyer_PE said:


> Depends on where you work. The NRC policy for nuclear facilities is that you are not considered fit for duty if you have consumed any alcohol within five hours of reporting for work.


Come on... Homer Simpson does it all the time!


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## Supe (Dec 28, 2010)

On this site, a .03 BAC puts you over the limit associated with the Client's program. If I were back in an office role, you bet I'd have a beer or two with lunch. It relaxes me, takes an edge off the back pain, and I'm more focused on what it was I was doing.


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## ALBin517 (Dec 28, 2010)

Supe said:


> On this site, a .03 BAC puts you over the limit associated with the Client's program. If I were back in an office role, you bet I'd have a beer or two with lunch. It relaxes me, takes an edge off the back pain, and I'm more focused on what it was I was doing.



We used to be allowed one or two, until the maintenance guys stretched it into six or eight and one of them drove into the garage with the boom up.


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## HornTootinEE (Dec 28, 2010)

Whether there was a company policy, ethics, or not, it would seem prudent to not consume alcohol at lunch. It's probably not a big deal for an office worker other than if you made some decision or design that failed, if someone knew you had been drinking at all at lunch, that could call your judgement into question whether you were only one drink or 10 drinks. IMO it's a perception issue more than anything.

I drove school bus all the way through college, granted that is a different situation (operating a bus with kids, etc.) than a desk job, but I never drank inside of 8 hours prior to driving. Sure, it would have been out of my system, there are no vehicle laws or company policies against drinking the night before. But had I been in a crash or had a mechanical issue I missed on a pretrip inspection, if somebody had seen me drinking that would have been a judgement impairment question then and me saying "I only had one" vs. the eye witness saying "Well, I only saw him drinking, but don't know how much" No proof either way unless you can produce your bar tab and the tabs of your party.

Maybe thats over cautious, but nobody can question you then. A "No, I was not drinking at noon" is a lot easier to deal with than your word vs. another witness, coworker, or client.


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## NEED2009 (Dec 30, 2010)

alcohol are being consumed over in Europe during their lunch hours while we are discussing this.


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## roadwreck (Dec 30, 2010)

NEED2009 said:


> alcohol are being consumed over in Europe during their lunch hours while we are discussing this.


Except that in Europe it's 6pm right now...

(It's 5 o'clock somewhere)


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## benbo (Dec 30, 2010)

NEED2009 said:


> alcohol are being consumed over in Europe during their lunch hours while we are discussing this.


I worked for a few months in a semiconductor fab in Grenoble France. At that time they had beer and wine in the cafeteria.


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## FusionWhite (Dec 30, 2010)

Theres a Hooters a block from my office and I see tons of people drinking during lunch. Ive noticed that its a lot of construction guys and (frighteningly enough) people who drive the cable and phone company repair trucks.


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## benbo (Dec 30, 2010)

FusionWhite said:


> Theres a Hooters a block from my office and I see tons of people drinking during lunch. Ive noticed that its a lot of construction guys and (frighteningly enough) people who drive the cable and phone company repair trucks.


There was a big scandal out here in Los Angeles where they caught DWP linemen (high voltage) drinking at a strip joint and in the bucket truck (brown bagging it), and then driving around, and probably working. It was a news crew that caught them and put it on TV. Not only once either. To me, you've got to be completely nuts to riskl being even a little wasted working on high tension lines.


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## Dleg (Dec 30, 2010)

benbo said:


> ... and then driving around, and *probably working*. ...


That's awfully optimistic.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 3, 2011)

I just don't do it on principle, last thing I need is some client to tell my boss he saw me drinking or I was drunk on the job. I can wait until 5 o'clock.


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## DVINNY (Jan 3, 2011)

Have never had a drink during business hours EXCEPT;

on the golf course, where we had an afternoon Tee time and I knew there was no going back to the office. And only then, I would do it if the client were drinking. I would NEVER drink while golfing if the client I were golfing with wasn't.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 3, 2011)

I had a contractor offer me a sip of whisky from his flask to 'warm me up.' I knew damn well this was a ploy on his part that was going straight to my boss and the mayor. These guys were sneaky little shits who weren't above that sort of thing.


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## Slugger926 (Jan 3, 2011)

I had an undergrad class on St. Patrick's day where the teacher lectured us for an hour how vendors will get information from customers during lunch, dinner or golf outings, and then use that information to make sales to the competition. He then instructed us how to get information about competition from those vendors. We then had an assignment to go to a local watering hole and buy a stranger two drinks, and get information out of them that you normally wouldn't get. We than had to write a two page paper on the experience and the information obtained.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm glad someone teaches practical skills, sure wasn't my college.


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## bigray76 (Jan 3, 2011)

How did this thread get buried in General Engineering and not in STB???

The answer is to use common sense.

There is no reason to go get hammered at lunch... but a couple of drinks with a subcontractor, client, vendor, etc. at a lunch is acceptable. Good rule of thumb - if you know you have a lot of important work to do (or face time with management) don't drink!


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## DynaMechEng (Jan 3, 2011)

bigray76 said:


> How did this thread get buried in General Engineering and not in STB???
> The answer is to use common sense.
> 
> There is no reason to go get hammered at lunch... but a couple of drinks with a subcontractor, client, vendor, etc. at a lunch is acceptable. Good rule of thumb - if you know you have a lot of important work to do (or face time with management) don't drink!


Agreed. Unethical? In moderation, no....Unwise? probably.

If you're with a client or boss and they do it, it's ok. If you're meeting with them after (and they're not with you), don't do it.

If you're doing calculations/work where the safety of others is involved, don't do it.

If you have ANY doubts at all, wait till 5:00pm. It's really not that long.


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## cableguy (Jan 3, 2011)

I suppose hooking up with a customer during a company sponsored happy hour at a trade show would be right out then... For most people anyway.

{Not me, but a coworker... she hooked up with a customer while we were at a trade show... eventually she quit and moved to be with him. Lots of nudge-nudge raised eyebrows for a while though, ha ha.}


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Jan 3, 2011)

Grab a brew. Don't cost nothin'.


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## PE-ness (Jan 4, 2011)

DynaMechEng said:


> If you're doing calculations/work where the safety of others is involved, don't do it.


With adequate precautions, I think it is still OK to attempt to perform work after 2-3 drinks. Safety is not really compromised. Beyond that, though, performance tends to fall off, regardless of safety precautions.


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## ironman (Jan 7, 2011)

I generally work through lunch to leave early, but when I was working on my PE my pre-boomer PE I worked under we drank at lunch all the time, cant say no if he is buying, if he wasent buying the client was (client purchased booze was usually after work though). Life is to short to be concerned if someone sees you drinking at lunch. You have to learn who to trust and who not to trust at work, and who you say what to. Its all a game you have to play, get moved offices or change jobs you have to learn who the players are, who you associate with and who you dont and if you have to associate with them you limit your exposure.


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