# The famous cut score



## smilestar (Nov 3, 2014)

I know there have been many threads on this, but since I have been thinking a lot about whether I will make the cut score

or not I thought of posting the topic. I am quite confused about the cut score, most people say you have to score 70% i.e. 56/80 to pass

but 70% is the scaled score, so numbers of correct answers you should have vary from exam to exam from what I understood. Also,

I read they make professional engineers take the exam and the cut score is based on that, is that right?

Thoughts please............


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## John QPE (Nov 3, 2014)

I think if they made PEs take the test, the required "cut score" would be much lower .... know way they are prepared for the test like a true test taker.


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## smilestar (Nov 3, 2014)

hhmm that actually makes sense John, the test has way too much stuff to remember after you take the PE exam.


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## Road Guy (Nov 3, 2014)

I think they have PE's (who did well on the exam) come back and look at certain test problems and determine If any need to be thrown out and such....

I barely passed so I won't be asked but friends of mine that have helped have said they look at 20-40 problems at a time...


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 3, 2014)

Pi. But you have to convert the units.


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## smilestar (Nov 3, 2014)

So, if some of the problems are thrown out what the score 56 really means, I assume its not the number of problems you got correct.

I read on the board some people failed transpo with score 56.


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 3, 2014)




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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 3, 2014)




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## knight1fox3 (Nov 3, 2014)

^ ROFL!!!!

:appl:


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## smilestar (Nov 3, 2014)

you guys are funny


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## P-E (Nov 3, 2014)

The cut score is kept in a vault along with the formula for Coke and KFCs 11 herbs and spices


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Nov 3, 2014)

power-engineer said:


> The cut score is kept in a vault along with the formula for Coke and KFCs 11 herbs and spices




Is anyone actually after KFC's recipe? Haven't they gone out of business yet?


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 3, 2014)




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## Road Guy (Nov 3, 2014)

I think it's 53, that's what VTE told me it was.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 3, 2014)

I think that if you correctly answered 80/80 you will probably be just fine.


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## Porter_ (Nov 4, 2014)

Sapper said:


> I think that if you correctly answered 80/80 you will probably be just fine.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 4, 2014)




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## Ship Wreck PE (Nov 4, 2014)

This will get your hopes up??

98stats.pdf


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 4, 2014)

^^^ The year I graduated high school.


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## smilestar (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks Ship Wreck, I feel good about 48  .

I am just horrified that in April '14 56 score was a fail, not good at all.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 4, 2014)

Must of been a super simple examination....


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 5, 2014)

LOL, I Don't believe the attachment, not an NCEES verified document, anybody can just make this up. If its an NCEES document, then I would believe it. if you look at it, the cut score varies from 47% to 61% of the items for PE and 70% for FE. Please confirm a link from NCEES and the I'll believe this.


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## smilestar (Nov 5, 2014)

@ steel man, how you say 47% to 61%, isn't it 70% scaled score needed to pass PE?


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 5, 2014)

please look at the attachment above an example 48/80=60% etc


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 5, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


>


Just to reiterate.


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 5, 2014)

^ useless, look at the guys post above 98 results, you should tell him that.


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 5, 2014)

^youre the one full of SHIT.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 5, 2014)

What mine? The Back the F:\ up post? I thought it was funny. Hey, what you got against backing up the secondary hard drive?


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 5, 2014)

Are you fucking with us steel man? You do realize that we are like totally joking around right?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 5, 2014)




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## matt267 PE (Nov 5, 2014)

opcorn:


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 5, 2014)




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## smilestar (Nov 5, 2014)

:violin:


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 5, 2014)

Don't look at me, I'm just a mod...


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 5, 2014)

This is why nobody sticks around. They think we're mean.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 5, 2014)

We at least warn them. Kinda.


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## Judowolf PE (Nov 5, 2014)

If they haven't trolled thru the past posts and figured out what they are looking forward to by posting on this board, then they probably don't deserve PE status anyway...just sayin


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## matt267 PE (Nov 5, 2014)

^ damn, them are fightn' words


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## Porter_ (Nov 5, 2014)

Sapper said:


> What mine? The Back the F:\ up post? I thought it was funny. Hey, what you got against backing up the secondary hard drive?




F: is my removable USB drive.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 5, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Don't look at me, I'm just a mod...


I love this. Laugh my ass off everytime


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## NJmike PE (Nov 5, 2014)

Sapper said:


> This is why nobody sticks around.  They think we're mean.


Survival of the fittest


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## P-E (Nov 5, 2014)

Just don't post about the pats.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm a pats fan unless the Bucs are winning whatever game they are playing.


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## Road Guy (Nov 5, 2014)

Everyone just breathe.....


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## P-E (Nov 5, 2014)

Cut score happens.


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## KatyLied P.E. (Nov 6, 2014)

opcorn:


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## ptatohed (Nov 8, 2014)

STEEL MAN said:


> LOL, I Don't believe the attachment, not an NCEES verified document, anybody can just make this up. If its an NCEES document, then I would believe it. if you look at it, the cut score varies from 47% to 61% of the items for PE and 70% for FE. Please confirm a link from NCEES and the I'll believe this.


It doesn't really matter if you believe it or not. But the information was provided by NCEES and posted on the CA Board of Pro Eng's, LS's and Geo's. http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/exam_statistics.shtml It's not "made up". Yes, cut scores vary from PE discipline to PE discipline and, of course, vary from the FE. I don't think that is any surprise.


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 8, 2014)

ptatohed said:


> STEEL MAN said:
> 
> 
> > LOL, I Don't believe the attachment, not an NCEES verified document, anybody can just make this up. If its an NCEES document, then I would believe it. if you look at it, the cut score varies from 47% to 61% of the items for PE and 70% for FE. Please confirm a link from NCEES and the I'll believe this.
> ...


http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=24336#entry7233267


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 11, 2014)

Watch the NCEES video on scoring here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFvfJBTBGU

There is no magic # to get right, b/c you don't know how many will be thrown out before the test is scored. You don't know if problems thrown out were problems you got correct on the exam (if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing) or got wrong on the exam (if thrown out, helps your chances of passing.) More info can be found here: http://ncees.org/exams/scoring/


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 11, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> There is no magic # to get right, b/c you don't know how many will be thrown out before the test is scored. You don't know if problems thrown out were problems you got correct on the exam (*if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing*) or got wrong on the exam (if thrown out, helps your chances of passing.) More info can be found here: http://ncees.org/exams/scoring/




I'm not sure that you are correct about the part that I've bolded. I am pretty sure that if you get a problem correct your chances of passing don't change in any negative way (it could only be a positive change) if they decide to throw that question out. I'm not sure how it works, but I really think that the premise of what you are saying here is incorrect.


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## catinthehat (Nov 11, 2014)

Sapper,

I believe he is referring to the concept that a cut score is developed based on the performance of the exam takers for a given exam. If an examinee got 5 out of 10 questions right, and 3 of the questions he got right are thrown out, he now has a final score of 2 out of 7, or 29%. If another examinee got 5 out of 10 right and 0 of the questions he got right are thrown out, his final score is 5 out of 7, or 71%. Both of these examinees got a 50% initially, but after bad questions were thrown out, only one passed. Thus, it would stand to reason that how many problems you get right as well as WHICH problems you get right has a direct affect on your passing potential.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 11, 2014)

I know what you are saying and what he was implying, but I think both of you are incorrect. I think what they actually do is if an examinee got 5 out of 10 right, and they throw three out, he now has 5 out of 7, thus the removal of the bad questions doesn't hurt correct answers, only helps wrong answers. In other words, they count up total number of right answers. Then they apply that against total number of questions used to create the "cut score" of the exam. So if you correctly answered 53 out of 80, and they threw 3 out, then your score is now 53 / 77. They adjust the actual passing percentage based on this somehow, which is why the person last test season who failed with a diagnostic showing 56 correct answers still failed, because they probably make the percentage higher to offset the reduced number of qualifying questions.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 11, 2014)

This makes the assumption that the questions that were thrown out had a correct answer.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 11, 2014)

Yep... which is why these discussions are

*POINTLESS*


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## catinthehat (Nov 11, 2014)

Generally, If law makers get to make decisions on the direction of policy, does that make all public discussions pertaining to those decisions pointless? There are many things we do not directly vote on that merit public discussion regardless because they affect us. We as the engineering community are responsible for placing qualified individuals on boards who establish rules for passing our exams. It is our responsibilty as a community to keep those discussions alive, no matter how many times in the past they have been raised.

Back to the topic, while it is true I haven't a clue or direct say in how the cut score is calculated, I would be upset if I found out that Sapper's hypothesis was correct. Some of the questions that may be thrown out are questions that had no correct answer to begin with. I would not want a fellow test taker to receive a higher score than me because they were rewarded for arbitrary lucky guessing.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 11, 2014)

In theory, arbitrary guessing would yield an average score of 25% based on a 4-possible answer scenario.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 11, 2014)

catinthehat - but what if the problem has a right answer but is just really hard (and deemed too hard for minimal competency) and so it is thrown out. Now suppose somebody got it right because they are that friggin good at engineering and math. Would it be fair that they are penalized because too many other people are dumber than them? No. Which is exactly why I think it is as I propose. Because right answers can not be used against you and your method results in just such a possibility, whereas the risk is taken with the wrong answers, expecting that somebody who didn't get a potentially really difficult or oddly worded problem (with a real solution) correct would indicate that they are still minimally competent and should have a fighting chance of a pass rate, but whereas a guy who just really got that ridiculously challenging one correct potentially having a lower chance of passing because one he got right throw out is a risk that is unwise for the examiners to take.

Also, do the math and you'll see that if my proposition is incorrect, then at no time could a failing percentage of 70 = a number of correct answers equal to or greater than 56 but it certainly could if my proposition is correct... and we've seen evidence just this past May / June that a 56 at least in one case = fail.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 11, 2014)

And yes it's pointless because all it does is make you question that which you can not change. NCEES is not a government agency, not an elected office, nor is it subject to the majority will of the engineering community. They have their way, they do it their way. We can guess and speculate and talk about it all we want and at the end of the day all you've done is not be billable at your day job. Thus......

*POINTLESS*


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 11, 2014)

Sapper, that's the Democrat response. The Republicans won the Senate, and since they hate the poor, anything that can be construed as a guess would be thrown out.


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## DanHalen (Nov 11, 2014)




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## ptatohed (Nov 12, 2014)

Yes, talking about the cut score changes nothing, but I don't see the harm in discussing it and tossing around theories.

It is my belief that if a particular problem is discovered to be "defective" after the exam was administered, it is simply "thrown out".

Defective meaning a disproportionate number of examinees got the answer wrong (or right??), no correct answer was provided, more than one correct answer was provided, or there was some other error or unclear fact in the question or answers.

Thrown out meaning if, say, two problems out of 80 were determined to be defective, the exam is now out of 78 total questions.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 12, 2014)

But then how could somebody still fail with a higher number than a true 70%?


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## NJmike PE (Nov 12, 2014)




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## matt267 PE (Nov 12, 2014)




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## thebettersmith (Nov 12, 2014)

I think Harry is correct.. I would go a bit further and state that the NCEES test gods are both arbitrary and capricious.. IMHO they are more concerned with removing tares than they are with harvesting wheat.


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## ptatohed (Nov 12, 2014)

Sapper said:


> But then how could somebody still fail with a higher number than a true 70%?




How do we know they can or cannot? And, why are we talking about %? One needs a minimum # of correct answers (as determined by NCEES) to pass, not any particular %. If, say, two questions are discarded, and the test is now out of 78, and the cutscore is 54, one would pass with a 54/78 = 69.2%. But, the only thing that really matters to the candidate is whether they got 54 or higher (pass), or 53 or lower (not pass), not any %. Right?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 12, 2014)

If the exam is determined to be harder or easier than the "average", the amount needed to pass can be changed as well. Some years it can be a 54, others can be a 57. All the more reason to study and try to get them all correct.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 12, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> If the exam is determined to be harder or easier than the "average", the amount needed to pass can be changed as well. Some years it can be a 54, others can be a 57. *All the more reason to study and try to get them all correct.*


this


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## Mike in Gastonia (Nov 12, 2014)

Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 12, 2014)

So they add questions?


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## ptatohed (Nov 12, 2014)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?




Good question. I guess the only other option if an exam question(s) is found to be defective is to give everyone the point for that question(s).


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 12, 2014)

Or just give everyone a participation ribbon and tell them better luck next time. :dunno:


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## ptatohed (Nov 12, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Or just give everyone a participation ribbon and tell them better luck next time. :dunno:




Or an extra pencil?


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## DanHalen (Nov 12, 2014)

ptatohed said:


> Dexman PE PMP said:
> 
> 
> > Or just give everyone a participation ribbon and tell them better luck next time.   :dunno:
> ...


It's all about the coveted NCEES pencils...lol.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

The color of the pencil indicates the difficulty level and passing score of the exam. I heard green is the hardest.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 13, 2014)

apparently red is the easiest. FE and PE for me are both red


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## smilestar (Nov 13, 2014)

really are you serious, this time it was green


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

Mine was black, and I passed so I assume that was one of the easier ones.

NJ passed with red = Easiest

I passed with Black = Easy

A few others passed with Blue = medium

This time was green. I don't remember seeing anyone here who passed with green...


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 13, 2014)

&lt;-----passed with green = superior engineer


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## snickerd3 (Nov 13, 2014)

I have a red and blue but I don't remember which was from the FE and which was from the PE....they didn't date them back then. Passed both first try.


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## Road Guy (Nov 13, 2014)

I am so old that I took the EIT with my own goddamn pencil


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## NJmike PE (Nov 13, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Mine was black, and I passed so I assume that was one of the easier ones.
> 
> NJ passed with red = Easiest
> 
> ...


easy or hard, it still says PE after my name. I'll take it


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## snickerd3 (Nov 13, 2014)

they are my favorite pencils of all time though. I took the FE in april of 2002 and still use the pencil, just keep refilling the 0.7.


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 13, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> they are my favorite pencils of all time though. I took the FE in april of 2002 and still use the pencil, just keep refilling the 0.7.


+1


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## NJmike PE (Nov 13, 2014)

I retired my PE exam pencil. It hangs in my office right next to the exam authorization from when I passed.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

I didn't know I was supposed to keep my pencil. 

I also didn't join eb.com until about a month after I took the exam.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 13, 2014)

I didn't join until a month after taking the pe exam too. test Oct 06 joined eb nov 06


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## ptatohed (Nov 13, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> I am so old that I took the EIT with my own goddamn pencil








snickerd3 said:


> they are my favorite pencils of all time though. I took the FE in april of 2002 and still use the pencil, just keep refilling the 0.7.






Yup, I took the FE in Oct '01 which was the last time an examinee would use his/her own pencil.

I used a Papermate 0.5mm brushed aluminum body with a black rubber (Goodyear?) grip and one of those little rubber accordion things over the eraser cap.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 13, 2014)

I used my own pencil for the FE as well. Back in double ought.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

"back in my day, we had to mine our own graphite and construct our own pencils to take the exam"


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## DanHalen (Nov 13, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> "back in my day, we had to mine our own graphite and construct our own pencils to take the exam"




LOL

"Back in my day I had to take the exam with Barney Rubble and Mr. Slate. Those granite chairs were very hard to sit in for 8 hours."


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 13, 2014)

Ha, back in my day, we had to grow papyrus, harvest it, press it, and dry it to make the paper. Then we had to squeeze berries to make ink. Then we had to write out the exam questions and have them reviewed by a disinterested third party. Then we could sit for the exam.


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 13, 2014)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?




Yes, it is stated in the video.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> Mike in Gastonia said:
> 
> 
> > Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?
> ...


Watch it again. It only says the questions are reviewed by a panel who then adjust the score accordingly. Nothing about throwing out questions.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

And just to keep it on everyone's mind:



Dexman PE PMP said:


>


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 13, 2014)

I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.

Let say 5 questions (out of 80) are thrown out before scoring the exam and an arbitrary (I am making this up) score of 53 correct (after problems removed) is chosen as the passing # for this exam.

If you had 54 questions correct (before the 5 problems were removed) but 2 of the 54 originally correct were thrown out, your correct score # is 52 = fail.

If you had 54 questions correct (before the 5 problems were removed) and 0 of the 54 originally correct were thrown out, your correct score # is 54 = pass.

That's what I meant by "*if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing."*

Bottom line as previously said, get as many correct as possible!


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 13, 2014)

I had a whole response written out, but then I remembered that I don't really care, so I just typed this in response instead.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 13, 2014)

secret NCEES cut score selection method


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## engineergurl (Nov 13, 2014)

Sapper said:


> I had a whole response written out, but then I remembered that I don't really care, so I just typed this in response instead.




QFT- you guys are funny


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

Sapper said:


> I had a whole response written out, but then I remembered that I don't really care, so I just typed this in response instead.


Says the one waiting on results...


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## J-Dubbs (Nov 13, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.
> 
> Let say 5 questions (out of 80) are thrown out before scoring the exam and an arbitrary (I am making this up) score of 53 correct (after problems removed) is chosen as the passing # for this exam.
> 
> ...




I'm wary to join in here, but I just want to say that this would make no sense for them to grade this way. Not only is it unfair, but it would skew scores in a way that isn't representative of the sample of test-takers. Doing it this way would actively penalize those who got more difficult questions correct. That makes zero sense.

More likely it would be one of two options:


The number of questions you answered correctly remains the same, but they reduce the overall number of questions by how many they decided weren't appropriate. So if you originally got 55/80 correct and they threw out 3 questions, you now have a score of 55/77. So your score goes from 69% to 71%.

They simply give credit to everyone for the questions that were deemed inappropriate for the exam. So if you originally got 55/80, and the 3 questions they threw out were ones you missed, your score is raised to 58/80. So your score goes from 69% to 73%.

Either method seems much more fair to me and results in the desired effect of returning credit to examinees for questions they decide should not have been on there for whatever reason.

It's all conjecture of course. You could certainly be right, and there are probably many other ways of curving it that we haven't thought of. But if they're fair about it, I don't see them doing it the way you mentioned.


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## mudpuppy (Nov 13, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> Mike in Gastonia said:
> 
> 
> > Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?
> ...




Not sure where they get their information, but this university claims that if NCEES determines a question is flawed that they give credit to multiple or all answers to that question, which should not work against the test takers. http://ef.engr.utk.edu/ef402-2010-08/feexam/grading.php

I swear I remember reading this elsewhere years ago but I can't find it on NCEES' website any more. It seems like NCEES is trying to become even more opaque about the scoring process.


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 13, 2014)

@Sapper, pointless maybe ... but since I started this, I want to clear up any confusion.



Sapper said:


> So if you correctly answered 53 out of 80, and they threw 3 out, then your score is now 53 / 77.


Your assumption above assumes the 3 problems thrown out were incorrect: 53/77 = 68.8%.

Work it the other direction and assume the problems thrown out were correct: 50/77 = 64.9%.

I just don't see the confusion?



Sapper said:


> ... and we've seen evidence just this past May / June that a 56 at least in one case = fail.



This just proves the point that 70% is a myth. Also, don't forget that each State board has the right to ignore the NCEES recommended cut score and adopt a cut score of the own.


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 13, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> WR/ENV_Instructor said:
> 
> 
> > Mike in Gastonia said:
> ...


There are two ideas of flawed to be considered:

1) If the problem was say ambigious where say two answers could be argued and deemed correct, they may give everyone credit.

2) If considered "compromised" then nobody will get credit.


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## ptatohed (Nov 13, 2014)

J-Dubbs said:


> WR/ENV_Instructor said:
> 
> 
> > I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.
> ...






I doubt as many as 5 problems are thrown out. These are professional grade problems written by professionals. I suspect that 0, maybe 1, tops 2, might be removed for various reasons.

I don't think throwing out a problem hurts somone who got a more difficult problem correct. If it's thrown out, it is likely due to it being defective, not because it was just hard. Even if someone is a good enough test taker to get a very difficult problem correct, but it ends up being thrown out, I'm sure they did well enough elsewhere, they should be fine.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 13, 2014)

Harry. I'm not confused at all. You are simply not stopping to consider the opposing viewpoint. What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 13, 2014)

Cut the guy some slack, he's water resources. Most of their math is voodoo anyways. He doesn't know any better.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Nov 13, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> I swear I remember reading this elsewhere years ago but I can't find it on NCEES' website any more. It seems like NCEES is trying to become even more opaque about the scoring process.




They could lay it out from A-Z and show video of every step in the process but there would still be people who wouldn't believe them........ :Chris:


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## Ramnares P.E. (Nov 14, 2014)




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## thebettersmith (Nov 14, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.
> 
> Let say 5 questions (out of 80) are thrown out before scoring the exam and an arbitrary (I am making this up) score of 53 correct (after problems removed) is chosen as the passing # for this exam.
> 
> ...


If you throw problems out, the problems that are left in must have their point value 'increased' if you are going to assume that 80 was the basline for scoring each question - if 70% is the ratio that must be met than your chances of passing become slimmer due to the impact of scoring each individual question at the 'increased' point value.. so in a way, the NCEES punishes the test takers by screwing up the exam in such a way that they have to come back and gleefully fix THEIR errors but woefully punish the TEST TAKERS for their mistakes.. not fair at all in my summation.


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## treborTAMU (Nov 14, 2014)

I think a large part of the grade is based on the quality of bubble. A dark impression completely within the lines being the ideal bubble. We are penalized on breaching the bubble perimeter, not applying proper force to accommodate the larger than normal lead diameter, and eraser marks. Cut scores and throwing out problems is just a rumor. You guys will believe anything they tell you.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 14, 2014)

Isn't the thing graded on a bell curve anyway? I think they shift the curve so a certain percent fail.


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## Ship Wreck PE (Nov 14, 2014)

matt267 said:


> Isn't the thing graded on a bell curve anyway? I think they shift the curve so a certain percent fail.


This sounds like a plan. As long as your group has a large amount of not smart people, you will pass.


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## Road Guy (Nov 14, 2014)

So how does anyone in Missouri pass?


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## Judowolf PE (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks RG, according to your statement everyone in Missouri is smart and thus no one can pass....


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## Road Guy (Nov 14, 2014)

Sorry how about Kentucky? Can we pick on them?


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## Judowolf PE (Nov 14, 2014)

Lets make it a PCS state at least...


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## WR/ENV_Instructor (Nov 14, 2014)

Sapper said:


> What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?




@Sapper. My quote was "hurts your chances of passing" in regards to throwing out a problem you got correct.

If NCEES throws our a problem (that nobody is eligible for credit) that you had answered correctly, your correct # of answered problems goes down as does your % of correct answers (55/79 = 69.6% is less than 56/80 = 70.0%) relative to the situation where NCEES throws out a problem you had answered incorrectly, your correct # of answered problems remains the same but ... your % of correct answers actually increases (56/79 = 70.9% is greater than 56/80 = 70.0%.) You are actually penalized in regards to % of correct answers if a problem you marked correct is thrown out from the final tally.

To all those that claim this doesn't seem fair or right, this is exactly what happens when grades are determine via statistics and scored w/o subjectivity. Blame the math/method chosen.


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## engineergurl (Nov 14, 2014)

I wonder if there is actual physical throwing of said problems?


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 14, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> I wonder if there is actual physical throwing of said problems?










:dunno:


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 14, 2014)




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## thebettersmith (Nov 14, 2014)

WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> Sapper said:
> 
> 
> > What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?
> ...


Thanks, Harry.


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## ptatohed (Nov 14, 2014)

thebettersmith said:


> WR/ENV_Instructor said:
> 
> 
> > I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.
> ...




Relax. There is no significant detriment to an examinee if NCEES removes a bum question.



WR/ENV_Instructor said:


> Sapper said:
> 
> 
> > What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?
> ...




I see what you are saying WR, but this assumes the "problem you got correct" is, well, a problem you got correct. If the problem was, say, a problem that had no correct answer after post exam evaluation, then it's not possible that anyone got it correct.


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## EB NCEES REP (Nov 14, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> WR/ENV_Instructor said:
> 
> 
> > Mike in Gastonia said:
> ...


Why do you think this?


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## Dark Knight (Nov 14, 2014)

This would be a non issue if the engineering Gods, NCEES, were crystal clear about the methodology of test scoring. It is ridiculous that we are still guessing what do they do inside their building regarding to the test and cut score determinations.

Someone should tell them we are a decade and a half into the 21st century.


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## csb (Nov 14, 2014)

matt267 said:


> Isn't the thing graded on a bell curve anyway? I think they shift the curve so a certain percent fail.




Boussinesq Curve, I think.



EB NCEES REP said:


> mudpuppy said:
> 
> 
> > WR/ENV_Instructor said:
> ...




When the NCEES rep calls you out, it's time to run.


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## Porter_ (Nov 17, 2014)

ramnares said:


>




:laugh:


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 17, 2014)

Dr. Harry,

I'm convinced.


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## ptatohed (Nov 17, 2014)

STEEL MAN said:


> Dr. Harry,
> 
> Interesting, but to me it makes sense, for sure NCEES don't want the flawed questions be credited towards the examinees to maintain consistency and tough to pass for the examinees.




I read this 5 times slowly and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. I give up.


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 17, 2014)

^Im convinced on Dr. Harry's point.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

STEEL MAN said:


> Dr. Harry,
> 
> Interesting, but to me it makes sense, for sure NCEES don't want the flawed questions be credited towards the examinees to maintain consistency and tough to pass for the examinees.


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## Dark Knight (Nov 17, 2014)




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## EB NCEES REP (Nov 17, 2014)

I am thinking of a number between 51 and 57


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

5?


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## Dark Knight (Nov 17, 2014)

It is a trick question NJ. The answer is 15.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

Wait. I want to change my guess. 85?


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

You're just trying to throw me off DK so you can win


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## Dark Knight (Nov 17, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> You're just trying to throw me off DK so you can win


No. But you have future. I like the way you think.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 17, 2014)

This thread is still open?


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## Dark Knight (Nov 17, 2014)

What do you think?


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

matt267 said:


> This thread is still open?


no. go away


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## matt267 PE (Nov 17, 2014)

I hope you get yourself banned.


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## STEEL MAN (Nov 17, 2014)

He is a DICK Head anyway.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

excuse me?


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## matt267 PE (Nov 17, 2014)




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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 17, 2014)

Has anyone ever told you that you look like a penis with that little hat on?


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## NJmike PE (Nov 17, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Has anyone ever told you that you look like a penis with that little hat on?


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## Ship Wreck PE (Nov 17, 2014)

Someone has made a new friend??


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 17, 2014)

Mike's making friends I see. Good work...


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## matt267 PE (Nov 17, 2014)

Mike sure has a way with people.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

Or people have their way with Mike.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)

I can't help it if people get butt hurt by a comment or two, especially when it's a result of their poorly structured attempt to communicate


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

Yeah, one thing should be a rule about this place. If you take yourself too seriously, we'll take you less seriously to balance out the ego.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

No, you guys just need to cool it.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)

:facepalm:


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

Perhaps we do, but we probably won't. It should be said: "To all who see these presents, greetings, know ye that by order of the..." oh wait, that was for a different group of people... ah yes, here we go, "folks, we aren't mean spirited people, just jokers and cut ups. We don't harbor any ill will toward anybody, seriously we don't, but we do enjoy hanging out on this site and interacting with people waiting for results. Sometimes people waiting for results say some stupid stuff because they are anxious. Sometimes they say some very self righteous things because they think of themselves differently that the rest of the world thinks of them. We are not here to cater to people. We offer a website that provides support to people taking an examination. Come at your own risk. The site is run by people who passed the test almost a decade ago. We get bored. Don't get your feelings hurt."

Thanks.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

Sapper said:


> .....*we aren't mean spirited people, just jokers and cut ups. We don't harbor any ill will toward anybody,* .....* Come at your own risk*. .....




^ this and ^ that


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## treborTAMU (Nov 18, 2014)

I dont feel any better. I'd like to be catered to every once and a while.


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

treborTAMU said:


> I dont feel any better. I'd like to be catered to every once and a while.


What kind of catering do you want?


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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

I would like pies to be catered!! I like pie.


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## Dark Knight (Nov 18, 2014)

Before he orders, we are out of Mild BBQ wings.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)




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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

^ make that a double tall cup.


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## Dark Knight (Nov 18, 2014)

Just realized you both have more posts that I have. Quite an impressive spamming ability.

You should be proud. EB needs more like you.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 18, 2014)

But if you delete the 10k's, they would have a combined 30ish posts...


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

And even then the quality of those would be suspect.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

come on guys. I put a lot of work into my +23k posts in the 73.4k thread.

I already feel dirty because of it.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)

it's ok. I accept that many of my posts are empty in nature but I'm fairly certain that others here fall under the same label. I mean, how many times can you type hookers bacon blow and have it count towards something? Right Dex...


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 18, 2014)

yes, but dex has been deleted from the board once. You still have yet to experience that joy.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)

this is true too and at the rate that I'm going it sure to happen


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## Lumber Jim (Nov 18, 2014)

I think everyone is wrong, Sapper is actually right though, and what matters most is that you smiled at the person that let you in the door when you took your test... It was decided right then and there as to whether or not you passed.


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## Dark Knight (Nov 18, 2014)

Here we go...

6022 more posts and I will catch Matt. That is assuming he does not post anymore.

Never mind. It is also Mission Impossible. He will have 7k posts ahead of me when I go back home at 5:00 PM.

Or I can bribe Sap or RG to ban him for ... yikes... 5 years? That would give me time to catch him.


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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

Wait, I am a Gigantic DoucheBag

I was going to make a butthurt comment, but I won't. I'll go sit in the corner instead.


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)




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## matt267 PE (Nov 18, 2014)

Are you butthurt too?


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## NJmike PE (Nov 18, 2014)

Negative ghostrider


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## P-E (Nov 18, 2014)

How is that cut score calculated again?


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## kevo_55 (Nov 19, 2014)




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## Road Guy (Nov 19, 2014)

Lol


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## DanHalen (Nov 19, 2014)




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## smilestar (Nov 19, 2014)

Lol very interesting opcorn:


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## WesternAuto17 (Nov 20, 2014)

Lumber Jim said:


> I think everyone is wrong, Sapper is actually right though, and what matters most is that you smiled at the person that let you in the door when you took your test... It was decided right then and there as to whether or not you passed.




This is troubling news, as I shuffled through the door and kept my eyes on the floor and was muttering to myself about how the line was too long and I didn't have enough reference books compared to everyone else.

I guess there's no reason to get back to discussing a failing 56 or incredible pride in a 38.


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## Lumber Jim (Nov 20, 2014)

WesternAuto17 said:


> Lumber Jim said:
> 
> 
> > I think everyone is wrong, Sapper is actually right though, and what matters most is that you smiled at the person that let you in the door when you took your test... It was decided right then and there as to whether or not you passed.
> ...


I would say you're doomed... :dunno:

Unless the door attendant was watching some poor civil test taker rolling in 4 milk crates with a dolly. If that was the case, you may still have a chance. Unfortunate turn of events for you.

And you thought the cut score was based on math...

:Shakes Head:


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## Sapper PE LS (Nov 20, 2014)

I think we have effectively shut down this thread for the original intended purpose of being a cut score discussion thread. So, mission accomplished... and let this be a lesson to all that we don't take to kindly to cut score discussions round here. If you want to read cut score discussions, go find one of the other 30,000 of them within this site.

Thread locked.


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 22, 2014)

Lies


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