# Maryland Exam Information



## Andrew2288

Hey guys, 

Unfortunately, I was one of the unlucky few that was dismissed from the Exam during the PM Session with about one hour left in the Exam for having a Fitbit. 

Based on the number of Fitbits that was confiscated, I estimate at least 10 that were dismissed. No one to blame but myself - just wanted to warn everyone for future exams, especially given the popularity of fitness trackers...

NCEES has informed me that they do a full review and let the State know. Hopefully, the State will let me sit for the October Exam. 

Good Luck - Hope everything went well for everyone. 

Thanks


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## matt267 PE

@Andrew2288, damn that sucks. Good luck in October, I hope it works out for you.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

Can't say I would have risked that.  Hope it works out for you.


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## lizardo5

Wow. I was at the Maryland Exam and had no idea this was happening. Is this explicitly in the rules?


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## Mike in Gastonia

lizardo5 said:


> Wow. I was at the Maryland Exam and had no idea this was happening. Is this explicitly in the rules?


Here's what it says in the candidate agreement in the examinee guide (emphasis is mine):



> Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of
> Exam Results
> • Having a cell phone in your possession
> • Having loose papers, legal pads, writing tablets, or unbound notes in your
> possession
> • Having a device with copying, recording, or communication capabilities
> in your possession. These include but are not limited to cameras, pagers,
> PDAs, radios, headsets, tape players, calculator watches, smartwatches,
> electronic dictionaries, electronic translators, transmitting devices, *fitness
> trackers*, and digital media players such as iPods.


I guess since the proctors can't tell the capabilities of every type, they just don't allow any of them?


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## John QPE

Oh WTF????

Did they make an announcement before the test??


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## Ken PE 3.1

John QPE said:


> Oh WTF????
> 
> Did they make an announcement before the test??


They always told you to read the agreement and raise your hand with any questions when I took it. Can't imagine that process will change any time soon.


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## matt267 PE

For future examinees, here is a link to the NCEES Examinee Guide: http://ncees.org/exams/cbt/examinee-guide/


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## Andrew2288

Thanks for the support. At this point, I'm just hoping that they'll let me sit for October Exam. It'll just make it soooo much sweeter when I pass the exam!

Honestly, I was fairly confident that I passed the April Exam. So it just sucks that this happened. But again - no one to blame but myself. The fitness trackers were added fairly recently - I believe in October 2015. 

I have a feeling that they'll be much more vigilant on the next cycle. Having 10+ dismissed from an exam..... not good! haha

Thanks again for the kind words everyone! I hope you all passed!!


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## matt267 PE

Andrew2288 said:


> Thanks again for the kind words everyone! I hope you all passed!!


Thanks, I already did.


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## Andrew2288

The announcements that they made prior to the exam specified non-approved calcs and cell phones. 

I actually saw a few raise their hands to give the proctors their cells phones and calculators. But no announcements regarding fitness trackers.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

It's a shame the proctors didn't do some kind of check for that before the exam began.  At my testing center last fall, there were checks in the am and pm prior to beginning, for that sort of thing.  They were pretty helpful in reminding folks what the rules were.


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## Andrew2288

Audi driver said:


> It's a shame the proctors didn't do some kind of check for that before the exam began.  At my testing center last fall, there were checks in the am and pm prior to beginning, for that sort of thing.  They were pretty helpful in reminding folks what the rules were.


My thoughts exactly...


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## DuckFlats

There was no mention of them in FL. I actually don't recall seeing anyone get asked to leave. But I could have just been zoned in.


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## TWJ PE

Andrew2288 said:


> The announcements that they made prior to the exam specified non-approved calcs and cell phones.
> 
> I actually saw a few raise their hands to give the proctors their cells phones and calculators. But no announcements regarding fitness trackers.


In Houston, right before we started they stopped and announced their had been a change (I'm not sure what prompted this). They announced Fitbit's were not allowed and if anyone had one they need to surrender it. There were several people who obviously did.

That certainly sucks man. Keep your head up and hang in there.


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## Road Guy

that's really f'd up. They make a huge deal with cell phones (stating you cant have them) they owe it to the people who are paying to take the exam to point out things that will get them kicked out in my opinion. People have too many things to think about, you would think an agency who is essentially paid by (us) and the state (taxpayers) would strive to make things as simple as possible..

Were the proctors in Maryland the kind like we had back in GA, where they basically wheel them from the retirement home the morning of the exam?


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## jhassle

I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks!

The woman at the front desk checking names and DLs for the exam saw mine and mentioned that it wasn't allowed. Had she not said anything, I wouldn't have known.


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## snickerd3

That sucks!  Glad I'm not a techie sort of person, I would have forgotten to take it off too.  My old school wrist watch is staple for me...to the point I am lost all day if I forget to put it on.  

I guess I'm out of the techincal loop...I didn't realize there was an external recording feature to those things.


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## Dexman PE PMP

snickerd3 said:


> That sucks!  Glad I'm not a techie sort of person, I would have forgotten to take it off too.  My old school wrist watch is staple for me...to the point I am lost all day if I forget to put it on.
> 
> I guess I'm out of the techincal loop...I didn't realize there was an *external recording feature to those things*.


Most communicate via bluetooth or wifi with your phone.


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## Andrew2288

Road Guy said:


> that's really f'd up. They make a huge deal with cell phones (stating you cant have them) they owe it to the people who are paying to take the exam to point out things that will get them kicked out in my opinion. People have too many things to think about, you would think an agency who is essentially paid by (us) and the state (taxpayers) would strive to make things as simple as possible..
> 
> Were the proctors in Maryland the kind like we had back in GA, where they basically wheel them from the retirement home the morning of the exam?


They certainly were old. haha. There was one that I distinctly remember thinking - what if he had a heart attack during the exam!!?? - would all of our results been invalidated. 

I'd say you were lucky that other places made an announcement beforehand. I certainly would have thrown mine away if I had to. But I've come to terms with it... I'm partly to blame as well. 

Take two months off - focus on October - everything will be all right.


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## snickerd3

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Most communicate via bluetooth or wifi with your phone.


yeah but they just send things like your pulse or step counts...not an audio or visual recording


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## thekzieg

What's crazy to me is that they would just kick people out in the middle of the exam rather than making announcements beforehand. It seems like the proctors are more to blame than the test takers. And really, all a fitbit can record and transmit is motion data...it doesn't take pictures or record sound and you can't make it remember pieces of information!


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## Dexman PE PMP

Doesn't matter. They still have communication capabilities.


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## Road Guy

with ncees level of paranoia I have no clue how they are willing to allow the EIT exam to be computer based and not totally under "their control"


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## snickerd3

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Doesn't matter. They still have communication capabilities.


yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned


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## Audi Driver P.E.

I suppose one could use morse code or some such  to get the thing to record.  But since it does communicate it's a no-no.  Heck, you can't even use your own pencil!


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## csb

Seven hours in seems like an awful time for them to realize they need to kick you out. 

I get that they don't want anyone stealing exam questions, but NCEES is a couple steps away from TSA.


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## Andrew2288

csb said:


> Seven hours in seems like an awful time for them to realize they need to kick you out.
> 
> I get that they don't want anyone stealing exam questions, but NCEES is a couple steps away from TSA.


My thoughts are that they realized that they should have communicated to examinees prior to the exam regarding Fitbits. 

When they neglected to - I'm guessing that they were debating internally whether or not to start kicking people out. My guess is that they realized that this could potentially affect 20+ people. And NCEES might see this as poor administration of their test. But they eventually decided that they had to do something... and started kicking people out 6.5-7 hrs into the exam. 

Sucks.


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## matt267 PE

NCEES should do a better job of training their proctors.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

The good news is you got some good practice in.  Expensive practice but good practice nonetheless.


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## TWJ PE

matt267 PE said:


> NCEES should do a better job of training their proctors.


There's no doubt in my mind after what I witnessed on Friday - 310% agree.


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## snickerd3

matt267 PE said:


> NCEES should do a better job of training their proctors.


not all states use ncees to proctor.  IL doesn't.  The states that use pcs probably don't have ncees proctors either.


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## MA_PE

given todays technology whos to say how a determined individual might try to compromise the exam.  Bottom line is that they specifically prohibit the latest technological devices except for the exam approved calculator and trust that the examinees are capable of complying with the rules.  It sux that @Andrew2288 got bounced but it's a violation and they caught him.  Unfortunate but rules is rules.


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## John QPE

MA_PE said:


> given todays technology whos to say how a determined individual might try to compromise the exam.  Bottom line is that they specifically prohibit the latest technological devices except for the exam approved calculator and trust that the examinees are capable of complying with the rules.  It sux that @Andrew2288 got bounced but it's a violation and they caught him.  Unfortunate but rules is rules.


Well this all stems from "the pencil" incident .... where some brilliant peeps made some pencil that sent the questions to the home base in Sioux City, Iowa then home base beamed back the correct answer.

I get it ..... but they can fuck off with kicking people out 7 hours into the exam.


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## TWJ PE

John QPE said:


> Well this all stems from "the pencil" incident .... where some brilliant peeps made some pencil that sent the questions to the home base in Sioux City, Iowa then home base beamed back the correct answer.
> 
> I get it ..... but they can fuck off with kicking people out 7 hours into the exam.


When did this happen?


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## Audi Driver P.E.

The only unfortunate thing that I see thus far in what's been related about this incident is that it happened 7 hours in, to someone who apparently was on the up and up otherwise.  Knowing the rules is important.  I remember reading of through the regulations MANY times, and several times on test day, prior to taking my exam to ensure I was in compliance with all of them.  I was pretty surprised to see folks even bring in cell phones to the testing center.  Granted the proctors took them away prior to beginning the test, but that's a pretty clear rule that's talked about in several places on the NCEES site.


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## ductit

I was at the Maryland exam, and I didn't even notice people getting removed.  If it happened during the afternoon, i can't image why they wouldn't just tell those examinees that they were being "flagged" and NCEES would make a final determination on if their scores would count.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> I was at the Maryland exam, and I didn't even notice people getting removed.  If it happened during the afternoon, i can't image why they wouldn't just tell those examinees that they were being "flagged" and NCEES would make a final determination on if their scores would count.


Probably because there would be no way to determine if test material was communicated outside the examination room... by the device that is able to communicate.  That's the entire point of the rule.


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## csb

"Shoot, Martha. We forgot to check them for those doohickeys."


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## ductit

Audi driver said:


> Probably because there would be no way to determine if test material was communicated outside the examination room... by the device that is able to communicate.  That's the entire point of the rule.


Didn't they say this happened with an hour left? At that point, I think they should just let you finish, and let NCEES decide what they want to do.  The problem is, they should have done this during the morning exam, people wear these things on the wrist right? Sounds like the proctors were either A) Not told to check, or B) Didn't bother checking.

If you dont have your phone with you (you are not allow to have it with you), the thing isn't going to be able to "communicate" with anything anyways. I don't think they were out of line in removing the people, I just think that the more appropriate response, 7 hours into the exam, would be to have them finish, and let NCEES decide.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> Didn't they say this happened with an hour left? At that point, I think they should just let you finish, and let NCEES decide what they want to do.  The problem is, they should have done this during the morning exam, people wear these things on the wrist right? Sounds like the proctors were either A) Not told to check, or B) Didn't bother checking.
> 
> If you dont have your phone with you (you are not allow to have it with you), the thing isn't going to be able to "communicate" with anything anyways. I don't think they were out of line in removing the people, I just think that the more appropriate response, 7 hours into the exam, would be to have them finish, and let NCEES decide.


And continue to potentially let an individual communicate for another hour after being caught?  Please tell me how that makes sense.


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## ductit

Audi driver said:


> And continue to potentially let an individual communicate for another hour after being caught?  Please tell me how that makes sense.


Key word, "potentially", and we are talking about 7 hours into an 8 hour exam.  Any damage would have already been done, but that is assuming someone actually modified their fitbit with additional hardware so that it could beam test questions out of the building since bluetooth range is only 20 feet with no obstructions.  It would be easier to just modify a stop watch to do the same thing, and stop watched are perfectly acceptable.  It is a question of practicality, the proctors screwed up in not telling people.  How many people wore them during the AM, and then took them off when someone told them before the PM?  How many people saw what was happening and quickly took theirs off and put it in their pocket. 

I was wearing a hoodie, you could not even see my wrists, no one asked to see my wrists, so what, they just scan the room and toss a bunch of people with an hour left? Sorry, I just do not agree, but like i said, it is buried in the agreement, so it is their own fault for wearing it. I get it though, I would never even have thought that one of those wouldn't be allowed, and I definitely do not remember seeing that in there even though I read it before and twice during...


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## Dexman PE PMP

One hour left? I was already out the door at that point. BWAHAHAHA!!!!


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> Key word, "potentially", and we are talking about 7 hours into an 8 hour exam.  Any damage would have already been done, but that is assuming someone actually modified their fitbit with additional hardware so that it could beam test questions out of the building since bluetooth range is only 20 feet with no obstructions.  It would be easier to just modify a stop watch to do the same thing, and stop watched are perfectly acceptable.  It is a question of practicality, the proctors screwed up in not telling people.  How many people wore them during the AM, and then took them off when someone told them before the PM?  How many people saw what was happening and quickly took theirs off and put it in their pocket.
> 
> I was wearing a hoodie, you could not even see my wrists, no one asked to see my wrists, so what, they just scan the room and toss a bunch of people with an hour left? Sorry, I just do not agree, but like i said, it is buried in the agreement, so it is their own fault for wearing it. I get it though, I would never even have thought that one of those wouldn't be allowed, and I definitely do not remember seeing that in there even though I read it before and twice during...


Of course "potentially" is the key word.  It is this potential NCEES is concerned with.  You might note that "hoodies" are not allowed either.


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## TWJ PE

I thought hoodies were ok as long as you didn't put the hood on your head?


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## ductit

Agreement Here: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ExamineeGuide_1-13-16.pdf

On page 27 you find the section "Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of Exam Results"

Note that it is "Ground for" and the critical part, "and/or Invalidation".  The rules do not "require" them to dismiss you for having one of those items; however, they will confiscate it and send it to NCEES if you are found to have it after the exam begins.  So like I said, 7 hours in, I really feel they should have confiscated and sent them to NCEES to determine if those peoples exams should be invalidated.  And I wasn't wearing an actual "hoodie", the hood park was more of a collar, just easier to picture what I was talking about by saying hoodie.


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## knight1fox3

This is all semantics, whether or not the device has recording/transmitting capabilities is immaterial.  Because not all testing locations have proctors with a sense of technical aptitude, NCEES made the command decision to ban them across the board.  Case closed.  I agree that the specific situation described by the OP is pretty ridiculous.  But as already has been echoed, rules are rules.


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## starquest

Oh wow!  

I took the exam on Friday in pa, pcs proctor.    I had on my garmin watch that I use for running (only watch I own).    Just prior to the exam, the proctors were reading the rules of he mentioned that watches with heart rate monitors are not to be worn.  I immediately raised my hand and informed them that my watch had this capability.  They simply had me take it off and give it to a proctor until after the am session ( I took it to my vehicle then).    

At lunch I noticed three other people at lunch wearing similar watches.   Go figure, but I wasn't going to take a chance especially when I was sitting front row.    I'm very glad I did after reading this today!


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> Agreement Here: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ExamineeGuide_1-13-16.pdf
> 
> On page 27 you find the section "Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of Exam Results"
> 
> Note that it is "Ground for" and the critical part, "and/or Invalidation".  The rules do not "require" them to dismiss you for having one of those items; however, they will confiscate it and send it to NCEES if you are found to have it after the exam begins.  So like I said, 7 hours in, I really feel they should have confiscated and sent them to NCEES to determine if those peoples exams should be invalidated.  And I wasn't wearing an actual "hoodie", the hood park was more of a collar, just easier to picture what I was talking about by saying hoodie.


Seems like a hood is much different from a collar, but whatever.  In any case, the way I read it if he wasn't dismissed, the exam would be invalidated.


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## ductit

Audi driver said:


> Seems like a hood is much different from a collar, but whatever.  In any case, the way I read it if he wasn't dismissed, the exam would be invalidated.


Yeah and I was talking about the sleeves, as in heavy cotton like a hoodie, not sure how having a hood would have anything to do with being able to see something on my wrist...  And as to the original subject, reread the agreement, they do not have to dismiss or invalidate, they just have "Grounds for" doing one or both.  They wrote it like that for a reason, they wanted the discretion.  Do you think it matters whether or not a contract says "should" or "shall"? Same concept.


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## csb

I'm waiting for when NCEES makes you wear clear plastic clothing, like taking a bag into a professional sports game.


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## kevo_55

Glad to see that the NCEES has a sense of humor.

Enjoy.


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## thekzieg

? is that for real?!


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> Yeah and I was talking about the sleeves, as in heavy cotton like a hoodie, not sure how having a hood would have anything to do with being able to see something on my wrist...  And as to the original subject, reread the agreement, they do not have to dismiss or invalidate, they just have "Grounds for" doing one or both.  They wrote it like that for a reason, they wanted the discretion.  Do you think it matters whether or not a contract says "should" or "shall"? Same concept.


Well it doesn't have anything to do with wrists.  You said "hoodie" and I merely reacted to that.  "Grounds for" is pretty concrete.  Conditions were met.  Sure the proctors have discretion.  They apparently used it.  You can argue all day as to whether it was an appropriate choice, but I seriously doubt the NCEES is going to disagree with the decision made on the spot.  Your argument is with them, not me as it is their rule.  As I noted above, since the device is a "communicating device" (however inept it may be at it) leaving the examinee in the room to finish would potentially allow for a whole hour to continue to "communicate" with it or even begin to.  No one knows whether the individual had planned to use the last hour, if available, to share test information or get answers or whatever.  It could happen at any time during the exam.  You sound as if there is some magic to the last hour that it would never be used for nefarious activity.  To me dismissal sounds like the right choice, given the circumstances.


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## kevo_55

thekzieg PE said:


> ? is that for real?!


Yep!


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## snickerd3

but please don't think we are for/against you in all this @Andrew2288 ...feel free to continue to vent.  We just like to debate and play devils advocate around here.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

snickerd3 said:


> but please don't think we are for/against you in all this @Andrew2288 ...feel free to continue to vent.  We just like to debate and play devils advocate around here.


Yep.  Sounds like an honest mistake to me.  Just a costly one.  I feel for him.


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## ductit

Audi driver said:


> Well it doesn't have anything to do with wrists.  You said "hoodie" and I merely reacted to that.  "Grounds for" is pretty concrete.  Conditions were met.  Sure the proctors have discretion.  They apparently used it.  You can argue all day as to whether it was an appropriate choice, but I seriously doubt the NCEES is going to disagree with the decision made on the spot.  Your argument is with them, not me as it is their rule.  As I noted above, since the device is a "communicating device" (however inept it may be at it) leaving the examinee in the room to finish would potentially allow for a whole hour to continue to "communicate" with it or even begin to.  No one knows whether the individual had planned to use the last hour, if available, to share test information or get answers or whatever.  It could happen at any time during the exam.  You sound as if there is some magic to the last hour that it would never be used for nefarious activity.  To me dismissal sounds like the right choice, given the circumstances.


You understand what the word "confiscate" means right? How are they going to continue to "communicate", if they do not have it anymore? The agreement requires it be confiscated, and allows for the proctor to dismiss.  You can argue all day long about your opinion, and so can I, but there really is no other way to interpret the agreement other than that having it gave them the "Grounds for" choosing to exercise the option to "dismiss".


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## Audi Driver P.E.

snickerd3 said:


> yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned


If electronic and it communicates, seems like it is.  It's just not explicitly listed (they do list watches so I would imagine it would fall into that category):

Having a device with copying, recording, or communication capabilities
in your possession. These include but are not limited to cameras, pagers,
PDAs, radios, headsets, tape players, calculator watches, smartwatches,
electronic dictionaries, electronic translators, transmitting devices, fitness


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## snickerd3

at the very least, I think the situation would be good reminder for  an NCEES newletter article as a reminder to all future examinees.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> You understand what the word "confiscate" means right? How are they going to continue to "communicate", if they do not have it anymore? The agreement requires it be confiscated, and allows for the proctor to dismiss.  You can argue all day long about your opinion, and so can I, but there really is no other way to interpret the agreement other than that having it gave them the "Grounds for" choosing to exercise the option to "dismiss".


Of course.  I also understand that if the examinee was not dismissed, the exam would be invalidated anyway, so what would be the point?


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## ductit

snickerd3 said:


> at the very least, I think the situation would be good reminder for  an NCEES newletter article as a reminder to all future examinees.
> 
> I think a 30 second reading aloud of the listed items in the agreement that could get you dismissed would be a no brainer here.  Its a big test, and very stressful for some which makes it easy to not realize you have something with you that you shouldn't.


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## snickerd3

^obviously they didn't read it aloud, so it is back to personal responsibility...if there were really mulitple people that got booted that is enough to merit notice that something was amiss at the testing site and a good anecdotal bit of news.


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## RBHeadge PE

snickerd3 said:


> yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned


Atomic watches receive a signal, but can't transmit one.


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## csb

That video is hilarious! Who's ever seen that many women in engineering?

I wonder if Tim @ NCEES was in the film?


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## ductit

Audi driver said:


> Of course.  I also understand that if the examinee was not dismissed, the exam would be invalidated anyway, so what would be the point?


Are you in charge of invalidating exams for NCEES? Because whoever is, would make the decision to invalidate the exam based on their evaluation of the actions that provide the "Grounds for" doing so.  Your employment contract might state that being late for work 5 days in a row is grounds for dimissal.  Does that mean that on day 5, you are fired? Is your boss maybe involved in determining if that action should be taken?


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## snickerd3

csb said:


> That video is hilarious! Who's ever seen that many women in engineering?
> 
> I wonder if Tim @ NCEES was in the film?


i don't think they got the age demographic right either...


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## MA_PE

ductit said:


> Agreement Here: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ExamineeGuide_1-13-16.pdf
> 
> On page 27 you find the section "Grounds for Dismissal from the Exam and/or Invalidation of Exam Results"
> 
> Note that it is "Ground for" and the critical part, "and/or Invalidation".  The rules do not "require" them to dismiss you for having one of those items; however, they will confiscate it and send it to NCEES if you are found to have it after the exam begins.  So like I said, 7 hours in, I really feel they should have confiscated and sent them to NCEES to determine if those peoples exams should be invalidated.  And I wasn't wearing an actual "hoodie", the hood park was more of a collar, just easier to picture what I was talking about by saying hoodie.


I think @ductit has a great point here.  If the device was confiscated for further investigation by NCEES and found to be completely benign then no harm no foul.  The test was very nearly over at that point.  I suspct that no one even thought about that as an option.  IMHO the blame was squarely with the examinee, the proctor was just doing his job.  Just like the speeding ticket I got the other day, the officer could've cut me some slack but he didn't.


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## Audi Driver P.E.

ductit said:


> Are you in charge of invalidating exams for NCEES? Because whoever is, would make the decision to invalidate the exam based on their evaluation of the actions that provide the "Grounds for" doing so.  Your employment contract might state that being late for work 5 days in a row is grounds for dimissal.  Does that mean that on day 5, you are fired? Is your boss maybe involved in determining if that action should be taken?


It means that on day 5, if I am fired, I have no argument to make.


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## Andrew2288

Audi driver said:


> Yep.  Sounds like an honest mistake to me.  Just a costly one.  I feel for him.






snickerd3 said:


> but please don't think we are for/against you in all this @Andrew2288 ...feel free to continue to vent.  We just like to debate and play devils advocate around here.


Of course not!. By all means, please discuss. The goal of this thread was first and foremost to bring awareness to fitness trackers being on the ban list to future examinees, I wouldn't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else.

I've accepted that the examinee (in this case, me) should bear the burden of failure to comply with exam regulations. Now... I do think that it would be nice for NCEES proctors to remind everyone of the rules; but we are all adults and engineers. We should be able to understand the rules. It's a lesson for me and if I can prevent this from happening to others, at least my infraction wasn't completely futile. 

Another reason why I decided to bring them up was hopefully to find others in the Maryland Exam Center that was dismissed as well. Like I said, based on the amount of Fitbits that were just laying there on the table in clear plastic bags, I estimate 10+ to have been dismissed. Just wanted to see how they were doing.


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## Ken PE 3.1

ductit said:


> Audi driver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 minute ago, Audi driver, P.E. said: Of course.  I also understand that if the examinee was not dismissed, the exam would be invalidated anyway, so what would be the point?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you in charge of invalidating exams for NCEES? Because whoever is, would make the decision to invalidate the exam based on their evaluation of the actions that provide the "Grounds for" doing so.  Your employment contract might state that being late for work 5 days in a row is grounds for dimissal.  Does that mean that on day 5, you are fired? Is your boss maybe involved in determining if that action should be taken?
Click to expand...

If your boss is an inept asshole, are you going to give them the opportunity?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## ductit

Audi driver said:


> It means that on day 5, if I am fired, I have no argument to make.


Correct, "if" you were fired...  But hopefully you wouldn't be since termination is not  "required". 

I'm done though,  this is a rather pointless argument,  the agreement says what it says, and words mean what they mean.


----------



## csb

I would have had to make myself a special note. I rarely take my tracker off. I wear it through the scanner at the airport, I wear it to bed, I wear it in the shower...it's just there. They came through the exam when I took it to take a look at our calculators. 

Curiosity has gotten the better of me, @Andrew2288- what kind of Fitbit was it?


----------



## knight1fox3

csb said:


> I would have had to make myself a special note. I rarely take my tracker off. I wear it through the scanner at the airport,


The same could be said about a cell phone in today's world.  Though one still has to have some cognizance and stray from the norm based on respective conditions of an exam environment such as this.  Just sayin'.

I'm also curious as to the type of Fitbit.


----------



## Andrew2288

csb said:


> I would have had to make myself a special note. I rarely take my tracker off. I wear it through the scanner at the airport, I wear it to bed, I wear it in the shower...it's just there. They came through the exam when I took it to take a look at our calculators.
> 
> Curiosity has gotten the better of me, @Andrew2288- what kind of Fitbit was it?


it was a charge HR.


----------



## Structures

First time poster, although I've been lurking for a few weeks.  Just took my exam on Friday.

So let me start by saying that I felt lucky when I first opened this thread.  I had a fitbit on the entire time, looked at it numerous times and the proctors never said a word to me.  Then I got to the third page and became slightly confused.  Am I understanding it correctly that they can invalidate my exam after the fact, even if they didn't kick me out while I was in the exam?


----------



## Dexman PE PMP

^^^ Dude, you're screwed.

lol, jk


----------



## Structures

lol.  Well played.


----------



## Road Guy

I am going to ban ncees one day for every person kicked out of an exam for something stupid...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## P-E

what I can't believe is how well Andrew is taking this.  Good luck in October!


----------



## Andrew2288

P-E said:


> what I can't believe is how well Andrew is taking this.  Good luck in October!


Thanks! Gotta be positive. Like someone had said, look at it as the best practice one can get. 

@Structures lucky!! haha.


----------



## Cinnamon

Andrew2288 said:


> Thanks! Gotta be positive. Like someone had said, look at it as the best practice one can get.
> 
> @Structures lucky!! haha.


Props to you, I'd probably wet myself and then drink heavily for a week. 

I took the exam in California (Visalia ).  The proctor in our room mentioned if you have a fit bit on take it off and surrender it. I had removed mine prior to the exam as two weeks prior to the exam I missed a flight because of my fit bit. I wore it through security and I had to have the extra pat down and they stopped the conveyer belt, put my itty bitty zip fitbit on the conveyer belt all alone an ran it through. The extra time  and a cross terminal run caused me to miss my flight, so I was taking no chances with the exam from hell.   

and yes the proctors are from the retirement home.  Our head proctor had a walker and one of those life alert buttons.  :wacko:


----------



## Mac87

I'm in the same boat, but with the CA exam. Does anyone know if there's an archive of examinee guides? I see there's speculation the rule changed in October.  It's entirely possible I forgot the one mention of fitness trackers (on page 27 of 38, appendix content) since I read the document 5 months ago but I can only find a pdf of the June 2015 guide, which doesn't have them, and the January 2016 document, which does mention them. As I registered in December, I'd be curious to know if this information was actually provided to us.


----------



## Andrew2288

Mac87 said:


> I'm in the same boat, but with the CA exam. Does anyone know if there's an archive of examinee guides? I see there's speculation the rule changed in October.  It's entirely possible I forgot the one mention of fitness trackers (on page 27 of 38, appendix content) since I read the document 5 months ago but I can only find a pdf of the June 2015 guide, which doesn't have them, and the January 2016 document, which does mention them. As I registered in December, I'd be curious to know if this information was actually provided to us.


You were dismissed as well? Hang in there. I feel for you.


----------



## southernbelle

I took the exam in Louisiana and the proctors were these mean little blue-haired old ladies that made about 1000 announcements about cell phones and anything electronic about an hour before the exam started.  They even mentioned fitbits at one point so I think they had some issues in October and were trying to make sure we all knew the deal.  They made it clear to leave anything in our cars except a plain old wrist watch.  I was sure at one point they were going to start strip searching people.



P-E said:


> what I can't believe is how well Andrew is taking this.  Good luck in October!


I agree with this ^^^.  I probably would have cried those big fat girl tears and would have had to be forcibly removed from the exam.  

Good luck in October guys and I'm sorry that happened to you.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Mac87 said:


> I'm in the same boat, but with the CA exam. Does anyone know if there's an archive of examinee guides? I see there's speculation the rule changed in October.  It's entirely possible I forgot the one mention of fitness trackers (on page 27 of 38, appendix content) since I read the document 5 months ago but I can only find a pdf of the June 2015 guide, which doesn't have them, and the January 2016 document, which does mention them. As I registered in December, I'd be curious to know if this information was actually provided to us.


I don't have a copy of the examinee guides. But Maryland's instructions for October 2013 and 2014 only make reference to : " Do not bring cell phones or other prohibited electronic devices." Smart watches weren't really a thing in 2013. But I distinctly remember them examining all of the watches in October 2014. The proctors (most of whom were young or middle aged) were walking before the exam around checking everyones' wrist adornments and calculators for compliance. They had graphic printouts of forbidden smart watches. They offered people a chance to check their smart watches and phones at the front desk prior to the exam. I vaguely recall that fitbits had to be checked too but I don't recall exactly.

they also made a big deal about watches which made noises. The instructions stated "Wear a watch and turn off the beeping function. Clocks are not always visible.". To be safe, I wore a mechanical watch to the exam. I kept anything remotely electronic (except for my approved calculator) in the car before I ever entered the building. I wasn't going to risk a lost year of studying and stress over something stupid. The proctors aren't exactly technical types, and are just enforcing the rules as written.

One guy behind me had a cheap drug-store brand watch that beeped every 30 min. He couldn't figure out how to stop it. The proctors let it go during the AM session. In between sessions they asked him to shut it off. He quickly (and sounding quite stressed) said that he couldn't figure out how, and said that it was a $10 watch and offered to throw it out. They made him check it in at the front desk. He complied but it was obvious how stressed it made him.


----------



## Mac87

Andrew2288 said:


> You were dismissed as well? Hang in there. I feel for you.


Yeah, and I'm definitely not taking it as well as you    but it helps knowing others are dealing with it too and I wasnt the only person totally unaware of the rule. 

I find it frustrating that some sites made verbal mention of it and others didn't, even differing within the state of California (I was Pomona.) Also, my fitbit was in plain view as they came around and checked my ID and calculator and no one said anything. (Not to mention that I read the paper test day content several times, which includes slide rules as a prohibited item but dumps fitbits into the appendix.)

I'm probably a bit more sour because I actually traveled from WA to CA to take the exam so I've lost out on all the test fees plus airfare, hotel, and extra time off work. If I'm not able to retake in October, or if I fail either the seismic or surveying portions, it makes no sense financially to go back down so I'll probably end up taking it in WA when I'm eligible in Oct 2017. Which seems like forever from now


----------



## Andrew2288

Mac87 said:


> Yeah, and I'm definitely not taking it as well as you    but it helps knowing others are dealing with it too and I wasnt the only person totally unaware of the rule.
> 
> I find it frustrating that some sites made verbal mention of it and others didn't, even differing within the state of California (I was Pomona.) Also, my fitbit was in plain view as they came around and checked my ID and calculator and no one said anything. (Not to mention that I read the paper test day content several times, which includes slide rules as a prohibited item but dumps fitbits into the appendix.)
> 
> I'm probably a bit more sour because I actually traveled from WA to CA to take the exam so I've lost out on all the test fees plus airfare, hotel, and extra time off work. If I'm not able to retake in October, or if I fail either the seismic or surveying portions, it makes no sense financially to go back down so I'll probably end up taking it in WA when I'm eligible in Oct 2017. Which seems like forever from now


I gave myself the weekend to vent, to relive the moment when the chief proctor asked me if I was wearing a Fitbit and to follow him. Once Monday rolled around, bought myself a couple of lottery tickets, and hope that my luck's turned. While we are to blame, there's definitely some element of luck depending on where we took the exam... sucks, but we were unlucky. 

I'm curious as to why you think you wouldn't be able to retake in October? I know that NCEES will report to your state board of your infraction, but if it's an honest mistake, they'll definitely let you retake the exam. I spoke with a few folks - and they informed me that they knew a couple of people who were dismissed a while back for having pencil notes in their references - but were subsequently allowed to take the exam the next cycle. It was an honest mistake. 

Keep your head up..


----------



## Mac87

Andrew2288 said:


> I gave myself the weekend to vent, to relive the moment when the chief proctor asked me if I was wearing a Fitbit and to follow him. Once Monday rolled around, bought myself a couple of lottery tickets, and hope that my luck's turned. While we are to blame, there's definitely some element of luck depending on where we took the exam... sucks, but we were unlucky.
> 
> I'm curious as to why you think you wouldn't be able to retake in October? I know that NCEES will report to your state board of your infraction, but if it's an honest mistake, they'll definitely let you retake the exam. I spoke with a few folks - and they informed me that they knew a couple of people who were dismissed a while back for having pencil notes in their references - but were subsequently allowed to take the exam the next cycle. It was an honest mistake.
> 
> Keep your head up..


I just have no idea how long it's going to take NCEES to clear all this up. I've contacted the state board and they said NCEES has to complete their investigation and then they will notify California that I am able to re-test. The refile date is in July, so I'm hopeful that it will be resolved by then. But I have no concept of what their process it or how long it takes and NCEES isn't able to give me any kind of time frame.

I'm feeling a bit better everyday and realizing this isn't the end of the world. Filled out the NCEES test survey, which helped    Spent the weekend at theme parks in Southern CA and was actually more annoyed I wasn't getting credit for the thousands of steps I was taking those days. I want those badges!!!


----------



## snickerd3

Mac- how far along into to the test did they see your fitbit thing?


----------



## michelle123456789

I was also dismissed with about an hour left in the afternoon section. The NCEES guidelines state that the “exam proctors will assist you in locating your assigned seat and ensure that you have in your possession only the NCEES-designated items allowed into the exam room." My Fitbit was clearly visible to multiple proctors. The proctor at the front who verified my ID, asked about cell phones, calculators, etc. was from NCEES and still didn't say anything about it. My proctor at my seat saw it and did not say anything either. Then before beginning the afternoon, two proctors saw it again and still didn't say anything. I think the worst thing of it all is that they waited until an hour before we were all to be finished to say anything, and then while I was in the vestibule being escorted out, another examinee was brought in and she said that she specifically asked the proctor before beginning the exam if she could wear it and that the proctor told her YES. She then walked back into the exam room with her Fitbit Charge HR still on her wrist to finish her exam.


----------



## snickerd3

@michelle123456789 where did you take the test?


----------



## Andrew2288

michelle123456789 said:


> I was also dismissed with about an hour left in the afternoon section. The NCEES guidelines state that the “exam proctors will assist you in locating your assigned seat and ensure that you have in your possession only the NCEES-designated items allowed into the exam room." My Fitbit was clearly visible to multiple proctors. The proctor at the front who verified my ID, asked about cell phones, calculators, etc. was from NCEES and still didn't say anything about it. My proctor at my seat saw it and did not say anything either. Then before beginning the afternoon, two proctors saw it again and still didn't say anything. I think the worst thing of it all is that they waited until an hour before we were all to be finished to say anything, and then while I was in the vestibule being escorted out, another examinee was brought in and she said that she specifically asked the proctor before beginning the exam if she could wear it and that the proctor told her YES. She then walked back into the exam room with her Fitbit Charge HR still on her wrist to finish her exam.


What!??? Were you in Maryland? Someone actually said one of the proctor told her yes and was allowed to return? I mean, good for her!... but talk about just a complete clusterf*** in terms of administering an exam!


----------



## snickerd3

http://ncees.org/exams/security-tip-line/  may not be the correct form, but I'd fill it out if the person was really allowed back in.  

and don't forget to fill out any surveys


----------



## TWJ PE

This could get interesting...

If there was an examinee allowed back in is it possible that whole test site could be invalidated?


----------



## snickerd3

not likely...just a lot of bad PR


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

snickerd3 said:


> not likely...just a lot of bad PR


And butthurt.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## TWJ PE

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> And butthurt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Indeed, massive butthurt.


----------



## snickerd3

The worst as far as the test itself would probably be the questions on some of the suspect disciplines might get tossed from future administrations of the test.


----------



## Mac87

snickerd3 said:


> Mac- how far along into to the test did they see your fitbit thing?


Only an hour.


----------



## Mac87

It may get deleted but one comment on an NCEES facebook post claims he was one of 38 at a test site to get booted for a fitbit. Obviously can't verify but it seems like this was a huge issue this test cycle.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Mac87 said:


> 24 minutes ago, snickerd3 said: Mac- how far along into to the test did they see your fitbit thing?
> 
> 
> 
> Only an hour.
Click to expand...

Does that make it better than the folks who made it 7?

Talk about an epic disaster on all fronts.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## snickerd3

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Does that make it better than the folks who made it 7?
> 
> Talk about an epic disaster on all fronts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


no it doesn't make it better, I was just curious how long it took proctors to make the decision.   I'd personally be more pissed about them waiting until the test was almost over because there could have been people finished early and got out before they went around looking


----------



## Mac87

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Does that make it better than the folks who made it 7?
> 
> Talk about an epic disaster on all fronts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


In a way. On the other hand, the folks who made it seven have now essentially seen the entire exam and I have not. I think it's pretty equally crappy for all of us.


----------



## TWJ PE

Just read the Facebook posts on their account.... dang... getting deep quick. It's definitely a major cluster!


----------



## snickerd3

damn i can't see facebook at work


----------



## matt267 PE

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> And butthurt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


We love butthurt around here.


----------



## snickerd3

is maryland a ncees proctor or 3rd party proctor state?


----------



## trees

I think Maryland is NCEES proctor state.


----------



## Andrew2288

snickerd3 said:


> is maryland a ncees proctor or 3rd party proctor state?


3rd party - PCS. 

I also just found that that Maryland Department of Licensing - back in Nov. 2013 - requested that NCEES grade the exams of people who were dismissed due to pencil notes in reference materials because of lack of proper notification. 

This really, really could get interesting....


----------



## matt267 PE

What a damn mess.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## envirotex

Andrew2288 said:


> They certainly were old. haha. There was one that I distinctly remember thinking - what if he had a heart attack during the exam!!?? - would all of our results been invalidated.


No.  They just bring in EMS while you continue to take the exam...

If the candidate agreement that you signed immediately prior to the exam specifically stated that fitness trackers are not allowed, then I think that there isn't much recourse.  Bummer.


----------



## TWJ PE

Andrew2288 said:


> 3rd party - PCS.
> 
> I also just found that that Maryland Department of Licensing - back in Nov. 2013 - requested that NCEES grade the exams of people who were dismissed due to pencil notes in reference materials because of lack of proper notification.
> 
> This really, really could get interesting....


Fight the good fight, sir. I'd get on the horn ASAP to the Maryland Board. Good luck.


----------



## knight1fox3

It doesn't sound like much can be done about this past exam administration (albeit some slaps on the proverbial wrist).  But I don't think any bans for future testing cycles should be imposed on those that were dismissed specifically for Fitbit (or equiv.) infringements.  Primarily based on the fact that there were extreme enforcement inconsistency issues across the April testing cycle.  As unfortunate as it was for those that were in fact dismissed, hopefully this will be a learning exercise for both sides.  And more importantly, just leave all electronic devices (whether or not they are covered by the agreement) behind before entering the examination room except for these (or similar):


----------



## RBHeadge PE

knight1fox3 said:


> And more importantly, just leave all electronic devices (whether or not they are covered by the agreement) behind before entering the examination room except for these (or similar):


Did you mean to show a radio controlled watch?


----------



## knight1fox3

Not sure what you mean.


----------



## Andrew2288

Mac87 said:


> It may get deleted but one comment on an NCEES facebook post claims he was one of 38 at a test site to get booted for a fitbit. Obviously can't verify but it seems like this was a huge issue this test cycle.


Looks like he was from Maryland as well...


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

knight1fox3 said:


> It doesn't sound like much can be done about this past exam administration (albeit some slaps on the proverbial wrist).  But I don't think any bans for future testing cycles should be imposed on those that were dismissed specifically for Fitbit (or equiv.) infringements.  Primarily based on the fact that there were extreme enforcement inconsistency issues across the April testing cycle.  As unfortunate as it was for those that were in fact dismissed, hopefully this will be a learning exercise for both sides.  And more importantly, just leave all electronic devices (whether or not they are covered by the agreement) behind before entering the examination room except for these (or similar):


Perhaps along with sweatshirts with no hood, this site should proffer some watches with no electronics.  Maybe even the approved calculators. :B


----------



## jnuengr

Andrew2288 said:


> I've come to terms with it... I'm partly to blame as well.
> 
> Take two months off - focus on October - everything will be all right.


Way to stay positive, Andrew. I was in your EET class, and so so sorry to hear this. Nazrul will help you get back up to speed before the October exam. You've got this!


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Audi driver said:


> 2 hours ago, knight1fox3 said:
> 
> It doesn't sound like much can be done about this past exam administration (albeit some slaps on the proverbial wrist).  But I don't think any bans for future testing cycles should be imposed on those that were dismissed specifically for Fitbit (or equiv.) infringements.  Primarily based on the fact that there were extreme enforcement inconsistency issues across the April testing cycle.  As unfortunate as it was for those that were in fact dismissed, hopefully this will be a learning exercise for both sides.  And more importantly, just leave all electronic devices (whether or not they are covered by the agreement) behind before entering the examination room except for these (or similar):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps along with sweatshirts with no hood, this site should proffer some watches with no electronics.  Maybe even the approved calculators. :B
Click to expand...

Will the hoodies say "eb.com, no fitbits allowed"?

Too soon?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## jnuengr

michelle123456789 said:


> another examinee was brought in and she said that she specifically asked the proctor before beginning the exam if she could wear it and that the proctor told her YES. She then walked back into the exam room with her Fitbit Charge HR still on her wrist to finish her exam.


Holy crap, that is out of control! I would've had a melt down! Impressed you were able to stay cool... were you?


----------



## ductit

I took Maryland on Friday, and they said nothing to me about my smart glasses, but I did have them on airplane mode...


----------



## Structures

Andrew2288 said:


> Thanks! Gotta be positive. Like someone had said, look at it as the best practice one can get.
> 
> @Structures lucky!! haha.


No joke man.  I really had no clue.

With that said, sorry to hear what happened to you and everyone else.  That's really unfortunate, because I'm sure you didn't have bad intentions.  I think I'm most impressed by how well you're handling it.


----------



## Andrew2288

jnuengr said:


> Way to stay positive, Andrew. I was in your EET class, and so so sorry to hear this. Nazrul will help you get back up to speed before the October exam. You've got this!


Hey! No doubt in my mind that Nazrul will help with October. 

I sent him an email immediately when I got home last Friday. He actually gave me his number to call him to discuss.. haha. We had a 30 min convo. He was shocked as well. As a side note, Nazrul is such an amazing teacher that I actually don't mind retaking his course again. It's the breadth portions that I'm not looking forward to reviewing again...


----------



## jnuengr

Andrew2288 said:


> It's the breadth portions that I'm not looking forward to reviewing again...


Yeah, I feel for you on this one. A bit less organized than Nazrul's topics. The idea of sitting through the structural class again makes me want to cry.  :wacko:


----------



## RBHeadge PE

knight1fox3 said:


> Not sure what you mean.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Will the hoodies say "eb.com, no fitbits allowed"?
> 
> Too soon?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Uh, they can't be hoodies.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Audi driver said:


> 17 hours ago, Ken PE 3.0 said:
> 
> Will the hoodies say "eb.com, no fitbits allowed"?
> 
> Too soon?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, they can't be hoodies. [emoji3]
Click to expand...

We make our own rules around here.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Cinnamon

jnuengr said:


> Yeah, I feel for you on this one. A bit less organized than Nazrul's topics. The idea of sitting through the structural class again makes me want to cry.  :wacko:




Word...  Just thinking of the structures class makes me want to cry.


----------



## John QPE

Someone found a fitbit file from a testaker in October ....seems like this was just implemented for this test cycle.

NCEES is getting killed on their facebook page.


----------



## thekzieg

John QPE said:


> NCEES is getting killed on their facebook page.


It's stressing me out reading the comments. So many people who were legit just trying to take their exams.


----------



## snickerd3

damn i really need to remember to look this up on fb tonight...


----------



## TWJ PE

Ummmm yeah... it was deep yesterday. They are flat out just getting smoked now.


----------



## knight1fox3

Feel free to post screen shots!


----------



## TWJ PE

Updated


----------



## TWJ PE

Updated.


----------



## TWJ PE




----------



## TWJ PE




----------



## TWJ PE

Expanded one of the comments.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

John QPE said:


> Someone found a fitbit file from a testaker in October ....seems like this was just implemented for this test cycle.
> 
> NCEES is getting killed on their facebook page.


fitbit file?  What information did it have in it?  I know nothing about fit bits other than they are fitness trackers.


----------



## Andrew2288

John QPE said:


> Someone found a fitbit file from a testaker in October ....seems like this was just implemented for this test cycle.
> 
> NCEES is getting killed on their facebook page.


Hindsight is always 20/20... but if it was indeed a rule change for this test cycle, I'm not sure why they couldn't have made it clear that an additional (quite popular) device has been added to the prohibited list or at least put out some kind of memo/notice that fitness trackers have been added to the list.


----------



## thekzieg

^this. Hiding it in an appendix as a CYA measure is bullshit for everyone who was trying to follow the rules. It's as if they don't realize that the test takers are a little preoccupied with remembering technical knowledge to also have memorized every detail of the guidelines.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

I could have sworn that fitness monitors were a prohibited item back in October 2015.  Perhaps it merely wasn't enforced at all?


----------



## jnuengr

Don't they normally  have an "updates to the exam rules" bulletin or something? I seem to recall "updates to the exam" but maybe they don't notify test takers of updates to the rules? It's pretty lame IMO... however... I did read it before the exam...  and wore my dumb watch two weeks out so I wouldn't forget to not wear my fitness tracking watch... but it is completely understandable that a 2nd time test taker (like myself) would not re-read the rules. i was merely procrastinating studying.


----------



## shelbygt5252

Audi driver said:


> I could have sworn that fitness monitors were a prohibited item back in October 2015.  Perhaps it merely wasn't enforced at all?


Someone posted on the NCEES facebook that they checked the 2015 rulebook and it did not mention fitness trackers. I am pretty sure it is a new rule. This would probably explain why many proctors did not know about the rule change either. One candidate even posted that at least four proctors checked her out and did not say anything about her fitbit before being ejected during the afternoon session.

Finally, the rulebook is set up quite poorly. Illegal items are first listed on Page 17 of the rulebook, while the fitness tracker ban is inserted in the appendix on Page 27. It would make sense to have all the illegal items in one section, not split up into two separate sections.


----------



## glockjacket P.E.

My proctors in NM last October seemed like substitute teachers...


----------



## TWJ PE

NCEES has given their basic reply on Facebook. It will be interesting to see what they do (highly likely nothing). I do know one thing, they probably want this to go away and away fast!


----------



## matt267 PE

I have a bad feeling this is going to cause the results to be released much later than normal. I think we're looking at 12 - 14 weeks at this point. NCEES is going to need time for get this shit figured out.


----------



## starquest

For what it is worth; I pulled up the exam guide that I downloaded from NCEES on the week of my test registration (December 18); *June 2015* revision.  







Compared to the *January 13, 2016* policy:


----------



## michelle123456789

The following screenshot is from the NCEES Examinee Guide dated June 2015. It does not include fitness trackers.


----------



## starquest

Michelle,

We must have been posting at the exact same time!

Kevin


----------



## TWJ PE

matt267 PE said:


> I have a bad feeling this is going to cause the results to be released much later than normal. I think we're looking at 12 - 14 weeks at this point. NCEES is going to need time for get this shit figured out.


I think so too. I have a feeling the Boards are going to step in - and they should.

I hope the folks who were 7 hours in get their exams scored; however, how many questions did they have left could be an issue. I have a feeling the outcome of this is going to be they are allowed to sit in October at no charge. Although, being 7 hours in, I think they should get a free roll to see if they scored high enough to pass.

I find some of this irony. A big part of engineering is communication...and it certainly appears this didn't occur.

Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in the integrity of the exams; however, it appears in this situation, they are more interested in an "I gotcha."


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Do all fitbits have bluetooth capabilities? If so, they would have always have been banned. They might have just pulled it seperately for clarification. Still no excuse for this debacle.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## michelle123456789

This was a lack of proper notification and proper training of the proctors. I've come to terms with it though, hoping NCEES will do something to attempt to remedy the situation. If nothing else, I hope future test takers learn from this unfortunate event and can benefit. I also hope NCEES learns from this and attempts to clarify this for future examinees. For now, I'm just going to attempt to enjoy the summer, and if I have to, take it in October again. Guess it's the best practice you can get, right?


----------



## snickerd3

Audi driver said:


> fitbit file?  What information did it have in it?  I know nothing about fit bits other than they are fitness trackers.


it was someone;s blog about how the fitbit monitored his heart rate before/during after the exam on test day  oct 2015.  I didn't read the whole thing


----------



## snickerd3

although other than the canned statement it was listed on page 27, they are ignoring the fb feed regarding the topic.  although the way FB pages for groups are set up, it isn't obvious there is a problem unless you go and purposely look at the comments.  The comments here probably get more exposure to more people.


----------



## ChewChew

Hey everyone, so I was also dismissed from the exam 7 hours in.  My biggest thing is that I registered with NCEES early december and the candidate agreement/exam guide was updated on jan. 13th - and we all know for a fact it wasn't a rule during the Oct. 2015 exam.  NCEES said I attested to the agreement when I registered which had to have been the old version because I have zero memory of the fitness trackers rule whereas the rest of the list looks familiar to me - and probably why so many people were not familiar with it as well.  Not providing or communicating that there was a change to something I attested to in the past and then holding be liable to that change is completely unethical in my books... was anyone else in this same boat?


----------



## csb

Were you also in Maryland?


----------



## snickerd3

so if you registered before mid January, you had a different agreement to swear to follow.  

Don't forget to talk to your state and well as ncees.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

The beauty of a self-regulating government-type bureaucracy.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## PBC

Audi driver said:


> fitbit file?  What information did it have in it?  I know nothing about fit bits other than they are fitness trackers.


Similar Reference (but doesn't seem to include actual test):

https://www.reddit.com/r/engineering/comments/48n7w2/my_fitbit_recorded_resting_heart_rate_leading_up/

I was at the MD site - I did see people getting pulled up to chat with proctors at around 7 hour mark, but couldn't tell what it was all about. With how many they were pulling I thought it might be something to do with the SEs. Good to know.  Shame, as much as I understand all the statistics and algorithms that go into it, 8 - 10 weeks is plenty of time to be anxious.  Overall MD had some issues - started late, lunch ran long, started late again (1:50PM).  I managed to duck out at 5:20 to make it onto my 7:10 flight out of BWI.  Good luck to everyone who took it this go round, and thank you for the continued insight into the issue.


----------



## Mac87

ChewChew said:


> Hey everyone, so I was also dismissed from the exam 7 hours in.  My biggest thing is that I registered with NCEES early december and the candidate agreement/exam guide was updated on jan. 13th - and we all know for a fact it wasn't a rule during the Oct. 2015 exam.  NCEES said I attested to the agreement when I registered which had to have been the old version because I have zero memory of the fitness trackers rule whereas the rest of the list looks familiar to me - and probably why so many people were not familiar with it as well.  Not providing or communicating that there was a change to something I attested to in the past and then holding be liable to that change is completely unethical in my books... was anyone else in this same boat?


Hey, I looked into this already too, but apparently there was a December 2015 copy and the January 2016 copy added only something minor about inclement weather. I don't think NCEES is so nefarious that they'd lie about this and then provide me a pdf copy of the December 2015 version, which does in fact include fitness trackers. (Unless someone happened to download the guide at the time of registration and it says otherwise...) I know, I was hoping I'd have a case against them too. But I think this has clearly been a major issue for multiple reasons that it should be addressed by NCEES.


----------



## ChewChew

What is the date of the December version?  Why can you not find this version online?


----------



## Mac87

ChewChew said:


> What is the date of the December version?  Why can you not find this version online?


December 3, 2015. Yeah, I'm not sure why you can't find it online. I think my original comment on this thread asked if there was an archive of these things but there doesn't appear to be. So unless someone downloaded the guide when they registered and it proves otherwise, we were technically given these rules, albeit in a very poor manner. Again, I think NCEES should address the myriad of questions arising from this (especially the inconsistency in the verbal instructions given at the different sites as well as the different ways that this policy was enforced.)


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

starquest said:


> For what it is worth; I pulled up the exam guide that I downloaded from NCEES on the week of my test registration (December 18); *June 2015* revision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to the *January 13, 2016* policy:


The only difference I see is that the latter specifically mentions fitness trackers.  It seems they would still have been implicated in the prior version as they are undoubtedly a transmitting device.  I doubt there will be relief on this save for the apparently non-uniform way in which the rules were enforced.  That part is pretty maddening to me.


----------



## MA_PE

As an older member of this board the trend of people becoming obsessed with these technological gadgets is pretty annoying.  The NCEES askes you leave all electronic devices except the approved calculator out of the exam room.  Folks can't seem to live without phones or fitbits for a day or two.  It's pretty sad.


----------



## Andrew2288

ChewChew said:


> Hey everyone, so I was also dismissed from the exam 7 hours in.  My biggest thing is that I registered with NCEES early december and the candidate agreement/exam guide was updated on jan. 13th - and we all know for a fact it wasn't a rule during the Oct. 2015 exam.  NCEES said I attested to the agreement when I registered which had to have been the old version because I have zero memory of the fitness trackers rule whereas the rest of the list looks familiar to me - and probably why so many people were not familiar with it as well.  Not providing or communicating that there was a change to something I attested to in the past and then holding be liable to that change is completely unethical in my books... was anyone else in this same boat?


Hi ChewChew - Hate the fact that you were dismissed as well, but at least you have plenty of company.

Sounds like many us will at least file a complaint with Maryland DLLR (assuming you were at Maryland), just to let them know what happened. If you go on the Maryland DLLR website/Professional Engineer page/News/Meeting Minutes, the November 2013 board minutes show that DLLR does indeed have the authority to request NCEES to score the exams of examinees who were dismissed for lack of proper notifications of specific policies for the exam. I wouldn't bank on DLLR doing anything... but I think they should be aware of what happened.


----------



## Andrew2288

ChewChew said:


> Hey everyone, so I was also dismissed from the exam 7 hours in.  My biggest thing is that I registered with NCEES early december and the candidate agreement/exam guide was updated on jan. 13th - and we all know for a fact it wasn't a rule during the Oct. 2015 exam.  NCEES said I attested to the agreement when I registered which had to have been the old version because I have zero memory of the fitness trackers rule whereas the rest of the list looks familiar to me - and probably why so many people were not familiar with it as well.  Not providing or communicating that there was a change to something I attested to in the past and then holding be liable to that change is completely unethical in my books... was anyone else in this same boat?


Hi ChewChew - Hate the fact that you were dismissed as well, but at least you have plenty of company. I think you have an excellent point.

Sounds like many us will at least file a complaint with Maryland DLLR (assuming you were at Maryland), just to let them know what happened. If you go on the Maryland DLLR website/Professional Engineer page/News/Meeting Minutes, the November 2013 board minutes show that DLLR does indeed have the authority to request NCEES to score the exams of examinees who were dismissed for lack of proper notifications of specific policies for the exam.


----------



## Mac87

MA_PE said:


> As an older member of this board the trend of people becoming obsessed with these technological gadgets is pretty annoying.  The NCEES askes you leave all electronic devices except the approved calculator out of the exam room.  Folks can't seem to live without phones or fitbits for a day or two.  It's pretty sad.


Except, you know, electronic watches. Which is simply what many of us thought we were wearing. The only other feature of fitbits is they track your steps and activity, which I would hardly equate to some annoying gadget as I'm using it for the good of my health. I would have happily left my fitbit at home (as I did my cellphone) if it had been more clearly and visibly stated in the guidelines.


----------



## EB NCEES REP

In the future, examinees will be tested (prior to the exam) to ensure they do not possess a “photographic memory” and those discovered to possess a photographic memory will not be permitted to sit for the exam.


----------



## ChewChew

Andrew2288 said:


> Hi ChewChew - Hate the fact that you were dismissed as well, but at least you have plenty of company.
> 
> Sounds like many us will at least file a complaint with Maryland DLLR (assuming you were at Maryland), just to let them know what happened. If you go on the Maryland DLLR website/Professional Engineer page/News/Meeting Minutes, the November 2013 board minutes show that DLLR does indeed have the authority to request NCEES to score the exams of examinees who were dismissed for lack of proper notifications of specific policies for the exam. I wouldn't bank on DLLR doing anything... but I think they should be aware of what happened.


Hey Andrew2288,  When I go to the DLLR I can only see meeting minutes up to 2015, how are you getting to the 2013?

Also, how are you filing your complaint?  I know people that know the board and they suggested going to their meeting which is the second thursday of every month which would be the 12th of May.  They do know what happened, I believe the executive director was at the exam himself.

There should really be an electronic archive of all those exam guides.. however the exam guide pdf wasn't created until 12/19/14 so it seems to be a fairly recent document they are using.  When I google I only find June 2015 and Jan 2016 existing.


----------



## John QPE

EB NCEES REP said:


> In the future, examinees will be tested (prior to the exam) to ensure they do not possess a “photographic memory” and those discovered to possess a photographic memory will not be permitted to sit for the exam.


This .....

I remembered, probably word for word, 75% of that exam for at least a week after taking it.


----------



## Andrew2288

ChewChew said:


> Hey Andrew2288,  When I go to the DLLR I can only see meeting minutes up to 2015, how are you getting to the 2013?
> 
> Also, how are you filing your complaint?  I know people that know the board and they suggested going to their meeting which is the second thursday of every month which would be the 12th of May.  They do know what happened, I believe the executive director was at the exam himself.
> 
> There should really be an electronic archive of all those exam guides.. however the exam guide pdf wasn't created until 12/19/14 so it seems to be a fairly recent document they are using.  When I google I only find June 2015 and Jan 2016 existing.


Hey - Sorry about that.. didn't realize they only had 2015. Google maryland dllr "dismissed" pe exam should be the first doc file that pops up. I actually work close to 500 Calvert St. I was planning on filing a complaint at their office.


----------



## matt267 PE

John QPE said:


> This .....
> 
> I remembered, probably word for word, 75% of that exam for at least a week after taking it.


Well, looks like you're results will be invalidated now.


----------



## ChewChew

Nvm I found other exam guides


----------



## ChewChew

Actually I found a December 2015 exam guide off their website and it is not listed there... this is getting weird.


----------



## Mac87

ChewChew said:


> Actually I found a December 2015 exam guide off their website and it is not listed there... this is getting weird.


Can you post a link to the site where you found those?


----------



## ChewChew

http://ncees.org/supplemental-pages/search-results/?q=december+2015&amp;x=0&amp;y=0


----------



## Mac87

This is truly bizarre. If you search December 3, 2015, a different copy shows up that includes them. I really hate that I didn't download the pdf to my files so I could say definitively what I received upon registration.


----------



## Road Guy

*Appeals*

If your exam results are invalidated and you

believe NCEES should review that decision, you

may appeal to NCEES within 30 days from the

date of the decision. You must send your appeal

in writing by email, mail, or fax to the NCEES

Manager of Compliance and Security.

In most cases, results are invalidated for one of

two reasons. First, there is a good-faith reason

to question the validity of the results. Second,

you have engaged in activities prohibited by

the _NCEES Examinee Guide_, the _NCEES CBT_

_Exam Rules_, or the _NCEES Nondisclosure_

_Agreement_. If you decide to appeal, your appeal

must provide information that resolves, to the

reasonable satisfaction of NCEES, the concerns

that led to the invalidation of your exam

results. Your appeal should also indicate the

specific relief requested. You will be notified of....

they don't list a contact person for this, but your clock is ticking..


----------



## Andrew2288

ChewChew said:


> Hey Andrew2288,  When I go to the DLLR I can only see meeting minutes up to 2015, how are you getting to the 2013?
> 
> Also, how are you filing your complaint?  I know people that know the board and they suggested going to their meeting which is the second thursday of every month which would be the 12th of May.  They do know what happened, I believe the executive director was at the exam himself.
> 
> There should really be an electronic archive of all those exam guides.. however the exam guide pdf wasn't created until 12/19/14 so it seems to be a fairly recent document they are using.  When I google I only find June 2015 and Jan 2016 existing.


When you mentioned that the executive director was at the exam, then that would mean the State probably OK'd the decision to start dismissing people. The current executive director was appointed this past January. Google "Steve Long DLLR", see if you can find an image of him.... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## ChewChew

Yea I believe he was asked by the proctor who found the Fitbit what to do and he directed them to call NCEES and NCEES told the proctor what to do.  I think how the test is administered is completely up to NCEES and I don't know how much he could get involved.  I think I do remember seeing him there!


----------



## knight1fox3

MA_PE said:


> As an older member of this board the trend of people becoming obsessed with these technological gadgets is pretty annoying.  The NCEES askes you leave all electronic devices except the approved calculator out of the exam room.  Folks can't seem to live without phones or fitbits for a day or two.


I also agree with this to some extent.  One day without being "connected" shouldn't be too taxing for anyone.  But then the counter-argument below also makes sense so it is most certainly a fine line.



Mac87 said:


> Except, you know, electronic watches. Which is simply what many of us thought we were wearing. The only other feature of fitbits is they track your steps and activity, which I would hardly equate to some annoying gadget as I'm using it for the good of my health. I would have happily left my fitbit at home (as I did my cellphone) if it had been more clearly and visibly stated in the guidelines.


----------



## Andrew2288

ChewChew said:


> Yea I believe he was asked by the proctor who found the Fitbit what to do and he directed them to call NCEES and NCEES told the proctor what to do.  I think how the test is administered is completely up to NCEES and I don't know how much he could get involved.  I think I do remember seeing him there!


I'm just surprised that he was the one doing the dismissing, and not the chief proctor. 

At least he dismissed me.


----------



## lisfs

This is a bummer - sorry man.  I can't fathom the thought of being dismissed from the exam after months of no-life livin' :mellow: .  Truly, I've spent the last few months neglecting all normal activities, my wife, and my kids too just so I could be ready for this exam.  It sucks something like this happen.  My rule of thumb when it comes to something as important as the PE exam is if you're in doubt, do something that will remove your doubt if it doesn't hurt you too much.  The night before the exam, I rechecked my backpack, my reference container, and laid out all the things that I would put on my person for the PE exam and made absolutely sure that I had no digital electronics EXCEPT for the approved calculators.  The only other thing I had on me was my analog wrist watch worn on my wrist to keep time.  I left my phone and my whatever at home.  I figured a day without electronics was perfectly alright; heck, I'd give up a month without electronics if I have my PE today.  Hopefully, I'll have my PE in a few weeks and the electronics too 

Good luck to you with your appeal or the next exam.


----------



## Mac87

OldenEngineer said:


> The night before the exam, I rechecked my backpack, my reference container, and laid out all the things that I would put on my person for the PE exam and made absolutely sure that I had no digital electronics EXCEPT for the approved calculators.  The only other thing I had on me was my analog wrist watch worn on my wrist to keep time.  I left my phone and my whatever at home.


I essentially did the same thing, though I actually went on the NCEES website and searched for the banned items list, reread the calculator policy, and figured out what personal items I could bring in and to put them in a plastic bag. And this is where mine (and probably many others') frustration comes into play. Fitness trackers aren't mentioned on the website directly; you have to open the pdf and know to not just read the paper and pencil exam part but to get to the appendix, which is the only place I can find the reference. I thought I was being responsible and doing everything I needed to do before the exam. And to be honest, it just never occurred to me that my fitbit would be a problem. It's almost ironic. If you never think about cheating, you also don't think about why certain items could be interpreted as problem items. I would never have thought that my fitbit could be used to cheat (and I'm still pretty sure that it can't even be modified to do so), so I didn't think to do further investigation or ask a proctor. And those that would think about cheating would probably not wear an incriminating item on their wrist.


----------



## Ship Wreck PE

Don't forget to leave your pacemaker at home.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

I will reiterate the thought I conveyed earlier: regardless of whether the words "fitness tracker" is specifically included in what you believe to be the examinee guide that is governing your exam, the fact of the matter is guides for a long time have said that devices that transmit are a no-no.  A fitness tracker falls into that category.  As did my HP28s way back in 1996 when I sat for the EIT.  And all that calculator can do is send to a printer sitting no more than 10 feet away.

So, the real issue at stake is: that apparently fit bit fitness trackers were allowed (and even specifically allowed) in some cases for this test administration, and in other cases they were not.  Arguments about what the guide said or did not say is moot.  What is truly at issue are the proctor actions during the exam.  These kinds of inconsistencies are very problematic.  NCEES has a charlie foxtrot on their hands.


----------



## Mac87

Audi driver said:


> As did my HP28s way back in 1996 when I sat for the EIT.  And all that calculator can do is send to a printer sitting no more than 10 feet away.


Was it not actually because of the full keyboard?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Mac87 said:


> Was it not actually because of the full keyboard?


Nope, it was because it could transmit.  I remember the 48 models that were out were also capable of having a card put in them, and they were a no-no for that additional reason.


----------



## Cinnamon

Audi driver said:


> So, the real issue at stake is: that apparently fit bit fitness trackers were allowed (and even specifically allowed) in some cases for this test administration, and in other cases they were not.  Arguments about what the guide said or did not say is moot.  What is truly at issue are the proctor actions during the exam.  These kinds of inconsistencies are very problematic.  NCEES has a charlie foxtrot on their hands.


As someone who works in Construction Claims and deals with disputes all day long this is the crux of the matter. Whether you read it or not in the agreement, it's there. However the inconstant application of the rule is where the bacon fat is.


----------



## Road Guy

Your honor, I will show the court that the rules of this examination are not being applied uniformly in all 50 states and in addition are in fact being administered by individuals who are too old to even drive an automobile anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shelbygt5252

Cinnamon said:


> As someone who works in Construction Claims and deals with disputes all day long this is the crux of the matter. Whether you read it or not in the agreement, it's there. However the inconstant application of the rule is where the bacon fat is.


This is also in the agreement: on Page 17 of the examinee guide "Exam proctors will assist you in locating your assigned seat and ensure that you have in your possession only the NCEES-designated items allowed into the exam room." So either the proctors did not read the rules either or the NCEES did a poor job finding competent people to fill the positions. Many candidates have reported that while being checked in their proctor did not say anything about their fitbit, which is located on the wrist, and is usually easy to spot.


----------



## Evaz

A friend of mine was kicked out from the MD exam at 7.5 hours due to a fitbit. 

If you think that's crazy enough..the proctor made me remove my casio g-shock watch because it was digital. I had to constantly ask him how much time was left.

The MD proctors were vicious


----------



## Cinnamon

I'm wondering if the proctors even knew what a fitbit looked like.   One of my coworkers (age75)  used to proctor the FE test before it went computerized. I asked her if she would have known what one looked like and she said no.   Add that to the list of confusion and you have a charlie foxtrot..   

(and yes my coworker can be down right vicious and rather unbending)


----------



## Andrew2288

Evaz said:


> A friend of mine was kicked out from the MD exam at 7.5 hours due to a fitbit.
> 
> If you think that's crazy enough..the proctor made me remove my casio g-shock watch because it was digital. I had to constantly ask him how much time was left.
> 
> The MD proctors were vicious


Evaz - I feel for your friend. Let him know that we're all here for him!

Total blitzkrieg at the end of the MD Exam - no one was safe haha


----------



## Dark Knight

Is it true they are going to invalidate the Maryland exam?


----------



## knight1fox3

Dark Knight said:


> Is it true they are going to invalidate the Maryland exam?


There have been rumblings and discussions from NSPE that this could in fact be the case.  It is certainly turning out to be a fiasco that's for sure.


----------



## Dark Knight

NCEES has always behaved as this. It is hard to keep up with their rules, which they modify at will with nobody overseeing their methods. Nothing they do will surprise me...until the next stupid thing they will do. I understand the tracker was forbidden but to wait 7 hours to enforce it is just wrong. They dropped this one.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## iwire

oh man..that sucks! 

When I took mine in 2013, they made a big deal on the pencil writing or marking on your notes/or books. The proctor actually go around and check people note during exam.

I saw a few guys got kicked out and their book taken away


----------



## ChewChew

knight1fox3 said:


> There have been rumblings and discussions from NSPE that this could in fact be the case.  It is certainly turning out to be a fiasco that's for sure.


Invalidate how? Just the Fitbit people?


----------



## John QPE

ChewChew said:


> Invalidate how? Just the Fitbit people?


Where are you seeing this??


----------



## csb

It's possible, if the proctors can't ascertain that the exam environment was protected.


----------



## knight1fox3

ChewChew said:


> Invalidate how? Just the Fitbit people?


See below.  She beat me to the explanation.



csb said:


> It's possible, if the proctors can't ascertain that the exam environment was protected.


----------



## ChewChew

knight1fox3 said:


> See below.  She beat me to the explanation.


So invalidate everyone?  Where did you hear about this?


----------



## TWJ PE

ChewChew said:


> So invalidate everyone?  Where did you hear about this?


Ditto. Where are you hearing/reading this from?


----------



## knight1fox3

csb said:


> It's possible, if the proctors can't ascertain that the exam environment was protected.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

Anything is possible when it comes to an unregulated group that likes to sit on top of the ivory tower dictating peoples future.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## EB NCEES REP

that's low mister, if I had a rubber hose I would beat you with it


----------



## envirotex

When does the Fourth Estate become involved?


----------



## ChewChew

Did NSPE actually say that though?


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

EB NCEES REP said:


> that's low mister, if I had a rubber hose I would beat you with it


Bring it. Lol

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## RBHeadge PE

csb said:


> It's possible, if the proctors can't ascertain that the exam environment was protected.


That's too extreme. The rumor is that they'll just invalidate the scores of the fitbit possessor and whoever was sitting next to that person.


----------



## TWJ PE

rbheadge said:


> That's too extreme. The rumor is that they'll just invalidate the scores of the fitbit possessor and whoever was sitting next to that person.


That's unacceptable to invalidate the person sitting next to someone. They wouldn't have any ground to stand on if they didn't do anything  wrong. They'd lose all their credibility and basically would show they are making up the rules as they go.

I know if I followed the rules and the person sitting next to me didn't and I had to pay a price for fate chance that I would raise all sorts of hell.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

W9TWJ said:


> 7 minutes ago, rbheadge said: That's too extreme. The rumor is that they'll just invalidate the scores of the fitbit possessor and whoever was sitting next to that person.
> 
> 
> 
> That's unacceptable to invalidate the person sitting next to someone. They wouldn't have any ground to stand on if they didn't do anything  wrong. They'd lose all their credibility and basically would show they are making up the rules as they go.I know if I followed the rules and the person sitting next to me didn't and I had to pay a price for fate chance that I would raise all sorts of hell.
Click to expand...

Making the rules as they go along? Seems about right at this point in time.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## P-E

Was there more than one Maryland testing site?  If not, an entire state would be invalidated.  That will save PCS a bunch of work.


----------



## PBC

P-E said:


> Was there more than one Maryland testing site?  If not, an entire state would be invalidated.  That will save PCS a bunch of work.


MD isn't a big state. To my knowledge we were all at a single site (state fairgrounds).  All 350 of us PE folks, and 7ish SE folks. I'd really rather not sit through that again.


----------



## iwire

W9TWJ said:


> I think so too. I have a feeling the Boards are going to step in - and they should.
> 
> I hope the folks who were 7 hours in get their exams scored; however, how many questions did they have left could be an issue. I have a feeling the outcome of this is going to be they are allowed to sit in October at no charge. Although, being 7 hours in, I think they should get a free roll to see if they scored high enough to pass.
> 
> I find some of this irony. A big part of engineering is communication...and it certainly appears this didn't occur.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in the integrity of the exams; however, it appears in this situation, they are more interested in an "I gotcha."


My 2 cents

Part of the engineering and the responsibility of an engineer is to follow the guidelines and standards and personal responsibility. Yes suck to be kicked out at the last minutes, You can't assumed they saw it at the beginning of the exam or assuming the proctors knows what is a fitbit. Educated assumption isa  ok but wild assumption will get you in trouble just like you assuming the the ground is clear to dig without any locate


----------



## Dark Knight

When it comes to NCEES, expect the unexpected. As Ken said, they are unregulated and seating in their power throne at their ivory tower. They can do whatever they want and that is the bottom line 'cause NCEES says so.


----------



## TWJ PE

iwire said:


> My 2 cents
> 
> Part of the engineering and the responsibility of an engineer is to follow the guidelines and standards and personal responsibility. Yes suck to be kicked out at the last minutes, You can't assumed they saw it at the beginning of the exam or assuming the proctors knows what is a fitbit. Educated assumption isa  ok but wild assumption will get you in trouble just like you assuming the the ground is clear to dig without any locate


I don't disagree. But, out of the 10 or so who were kicked out; how many do you think would have took a Fitbit if this change had been properly communicated?

Why wasn't it consistently enforced across all the testing sites? When my Chief Proctor made an announcement 5 minutes before the exam started that there "had been a change...", what change had occurred or prompted him to make a sudden announcement?

There's certainly some shared blame on both the examinee and NCESS; however, I'm putting a lot of this on NCEES. They could done a lot of preventive exam administration if it was communicated better and they had better trained proctors.


----------



## iwire

W9TWJ said:


> I don't disagree. But, out of the 10 or so who were kicked out; how many do you think would have took a Fitbit if this change had been properly communicated?
> 
> Why wasn't it consistently enforced across all the testing sites? When my Chief Proctor made an announcement 5 minutes before the exam started that there "had been a change...", what change had occurred or prompted him to make a sudden announcement?
> 
> There's certainly some shared blame on both the examinee and NCESS; however, I'm putting a lot of this on NCEES. They could done a lot of preventive exam administration if it was communicated better and they had better trained proctors.


Again assumption how many ...we don't know. 

When the rules are changed then? The same day of the exam or prior? Also, you are signing that piece of paper prior taking the exam in the room. Read what you signed right?


----------



## TWJ PE

Dark Knight said:


> When it comes to NCEES, expect the unexpected. As Ken said, they are unregulated and seating in their power throne at their ivory tower. They can do whatever they want and that is the bottom line 'cause NCEES says so.


My question is... at what point do States say enough is enough and start holding them more accountable?


----------



## Dark Knight

Do not hold your breath on that. You most likely will pass out.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## TWJ PE

iwire said:


> Again assumption how many ...we don't know.
> 
> When the rules are changed then? The same day of the exam or prior? Also, you are signing that piece of paper prior taking the exam in the room. Read what you signed right?


You're right, it's an assumption. But, come on... you know there might be 1 joker who would still wear it. The vast majority of examinees are ethical folks.

Well, some folks are claiming they did read the Guide and it was tucked away in another section.

At the end of the day, it's a huge mess and there were opportunities on both side of the aisle to prevent it.


----------



## Dark Knight

I understand the rules but there is something that seems to be ignored here. The candidates have so much to worry about: Do I have the right calculator? Are my references enough? And you name it. Now they have to read the fine print too. Hey, all could have been avoided with a fair warning at the beginning. It is beyond me why they waited 7 hours to nail them. If you ask me, it was intentional. 10 more that will have to come back for another try. Cha ching!!!!!! $$$$$.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## paigelida

I took the PE in Maryland. I cannot see how they could possibly justify invalidating the entire states exams. Not only from a monetary issue but from a time issue. Anyone that has really prepared for this exam knows the amount of hours you spend studying. You cannot get that time back. And because the exam is only offered 2x a year it's not like you would be able to retake it without studying again. This was a retake for me and I studied more this time around than last time (by A LOT).


----------



## csb

I imagine the people who followed all the rules would have a pretty big case against NCEES if they are forced to retake.


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

W9TWJ said:


> 24 minutes ago, iwire said: My 2 cents Part of the engineering and the responsibility of an engineer is to follow the guidelines and standards and personal responsibility. Yes suck to be kicked out at the last minutes, You can't assumed they saw it at the beginning of the exam or assuming the proctors knows what is a fitbit. Educated assumption isa  ok but wild assumption will get you in trouble just like you assuming the the ground is clear to dig without any locate
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree. But, out of the 10 or so who were kicked out; how many do you think would have took a Fitbit if this change had been properly communicated?Why wasn't it consistently enforced across all the testing sites? When my Chief Proctor made an announcement 5 minutes before the exam started that there "had been a change...", what change had occurred or prompted him to make a sudden announcement?
> 
> There's certainly some shared blame on both the examinee and NCESS; however, I'm putting a lot of this on NCEES. They could done a lot of preventive exam administration if it was communicated better and they had better trained proctors.
Click to expand...

One problem with your theory. It is clearly stated and well known that cell phones are prohibited yet many people still bring them in the room with them. Not that difficult to lock it on your car or leave it at home.

Not everyone pays attention to the details.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## csb

Did anyone else see this over the weekend?


----------



## TWJ PE

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> One problem with your theory. It is clearly stated and well known that cell phones are prohibited yet many people still bring them in the room with them. Not that difficult to lock it on your car or leave it at home.
> 
> Not everyone pays attention to the details.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Yes, but a reminder was announced that if you had a cell phone to surrender it. The same was done for Fitbits at the last minute at my site.


----------



## Cinnamon

I still fall back on the idea that they didn't know what a fitbit looked like.  90% of proctors are retired and not the most fitness minded.  Maybe it took them a while to realize that the fitbits were not wrist watches. Either way if I'd be red hot mad if I'd been ousted in hour 7.


----------



## southernbelle

Cinnamon said:


> Word...  Just thinking of the structures class makes me want to cry.


I completely agree with this comment!! :huh:


----------



## John QPE

csb said:


> Did anyone else see this over the weekend?
> 
> View attachment 7893


What am I looking at here?


----------



## TWJ PE

csb said:


> Did anyone else see this over the weekend?
> 
> View attachment 7893


That information isn't posted anymore... when did you take that screen shot?


----------



## Mac87

W9TWJ said:


> You're right, it's an assumption. But, come on... you know there might be 1 joker who would still wear it. The vast majority of examinees are ethical folks.
> 
> Well, some folks are claiming they did read the Guide and it was tucked away in another section.
> 
> At the end of the day, it's a huge mess and there were opportunities on both side of the aisle to prevent it.




I'd like to reiterate a few things:

1. The only time I would have been instructed to read the full candidate agreement was when I signed up for the test on December 7, 2015, more than 4 months before the exam date. I believe I did this as I made a good faith effort to read everything provided to me from the state board, Prometric (where I took the CA specific exams on the computer) and NCEES. There were a lot of rules and regulations between these 3 bodies but I did my best.

2. I was only instructed to read the front and back of the exam booklet on the day of the test and then to sign. Nowhere on the front or back did it talk about fitbits.The cell phone and calculator policy were clearly mentioned.

3. At my site, the cell phone and calculator policy were also verbally announced by the proctors.

4. The only location where fitness trackers are mentioned are on page 27 of the examinee guide, in the candidate agreement (which is in the appendix of the examinee guide.) There is a separate section for test day policies, which does not include fitness trackers in the banned item list and which does not refer you to read further into the document for more banned items. Therefore, I would have had to know to read the entirety of a 38 page document, not just paper-exam day policies, in order to get this information.

5. I would have definitely taken off my fitbit if I was instructed to do so before the exam. As it is, I've lost out on thousands of dollars of test fees, travel expenses, and time off work, not to mentioned the months of studying I did prior to the test and the prep I will need to do in the future when retaking.

I agree, I was given this information at some point in time and some of the blame falls on me. However, I made a good faith effort to know and understand all of the rules; with the points above (and the shear number of people this happened to) I hope people can understand how this was so easily missed. This was such an easily avoidable situation for NCEES, which is why I agree that a lot of the blame also falls on them.


----------



## jnuengr

W9TWJ said:


> Yes, but a reminder was announced that if you had a cell phone to surrender it. The same was done for Fitbits at the last minute at my site.






W9TWJ said:


> One problem with your theory. It is clearly stated and well known that cell phones are prohibited yet many people still bring them in the room with them. Not that difficult to lock it on your car or leave it at home.
> 
> Not everyone pays attention to the details.


Yeah, I don't have a car, was dropped off and needed a phone to contact my ride. So I surrendered my phone at the door.

It seems pretty common practice. I left mine in the rental car the first time I took the exam, but others had taken theirs into the exam room.

Side comment: Did anyone else feel like a sitting duck at the Sac convention center last October? One ancient rent-a-cop, easily a couple thousand people, all with suitcases. Not to seem paranoid, but I was kinda happy someone in our room had a cell phone.


----------



## Road Guy

I know there are details written by NCEES, on their website, probably mailed to you, emailed, notarized, etc..

I just think its good practice for the testers to have some kind of standard written statement that they require someone in the exam room read (preferably younger than 70) with a list of everything that can get you expelled from the exam room. Cant take more than 30 seconds..

The mindset that well it was on our website and we cant expect our proctors to make a decision so they just expel you from the test site is a total copout in my opinion.  .02


----------



## Dark Knight

There was a hint...page 27 of the examinee guide. Can someone remember what the deal is with the other 26 pages?...Exactly!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## csb

Huh. It's not there today. 

I hope everyone that wasn't removed is safe. Seems like NCEES would release a statement, even if it is to the effect of "this is what happened, under investigation, blah, blah, blah."


----------



## knight1fox3

csb said:


> Huh. It's not there today.
> 
> I hope everyone that wasn't removed is safe. Seems like NCEES would release a statement, even if it is to the effect of "this is what happened, under investigation, blah, blah, blah."


LOL, Or did they release it and realize "OH $HIT, remove that now!  That's not the wording we want to use."


----------



## Evaz

looks photoshopped


----------



## Andrew2288

Evaz said:


> looks photoshopped


LOL, agree. Where did we get the screenshot from?


----------



## matt267 PE

Evaz said:


> looks photoshopped


Something like that would never happen around here.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

iwire said:


> oh man..that sucks!
> 
> When I took mine in 2013, they made a big deal on the pencil writing or marking on your notes/or books. The proctor actually go around and check people note during exam.
> 
> I saw a few guys got kicked out and their book taken away


Yeah, I remember they sprung that requirement on us with less than a months notice before the exam. I actually left a few (essential) books home because of it.

In the year in between I bought a large eraser and went through hundreds of pages in several books to make sure that there weren't any pencil written notes in my books. What's worse is that the "no pencil markings in reference materials" rule was gone for the October 2014 exam. Several hours wasted, oh well.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

iwire said:


> My 2 cents
> 
> Part of the engineering and the responsibility of an engineer is to follow the guidelines and standards and personal responsibility. Yes suck to be kicked out at the last minutes, You can't assumed they saw it at the beginning of the exam or assuming the proctors knows what is a fitbit. Educated assumption isa  ok but wild assumption will get you in trouble just like you assuming the the ground is clear to dig without any locate


I agree. A big part of my job is reading, re-reading, and walking through requirements and procedures to ensure the desired outcome. I re-read the exam requirements (NCEES and Maryland), and the examinees manual twice in the week before the exam to make sure I didn't miss anything. Any assumptions on my part were conservative, and I figured that ambiguities would work against me. Blame it on OCD or just a experience in the nuclear industry, but it worked.


----------



## ChewChew

Interesting they have since added the candidate agreement to their website as its own PDF so that you can get to it without having to go through the exam guide AND so that when you click the link in the exam guide for the candidate agreement it will actually take you to the candidate agreement.  Before it just took you to the page with exam day policies that had that video and didn't mention fitness trackers and no link to the candidate agreement.  SUPER helpful now......


----------



## mudpuppy

I wouldn't expect NCEES to lift a finger to make this right. They are a bureaucracy that's accountable to no one. I would suggest those who got kicked out to file a suit  in small claims court. Seems that's the only way you'll get them to take notice.


----------



## Mac87

Well, got notification a couple of days ago that my fitbit is being sent back, so they've finished the investigation on at least some of them. Hopefully I hear from the state board that I have clearance to re-register soon. Nothing from NCEES about what they might do, though. 

I was informed that sending a message through the website qualifies as an appeal. What I've been doing is documenting every enforcement discrepancy I've heard about (and there's a lot of them.) I had maybe a dozen coworkers testing in WA and CA the same day so I keep hearing about how things were handled at different test sites (and sounds like at some sites examinees were simply asked to remove items and put them in their bags.) The person responding to me has been extremely patient and responsive, but who knows if this is indicative of a stance NCEES will decide to take.


----------



## jijir83

Man! This sucks!

In my test in CA, nothing was said about Fitbit. They announced over and over at the start to not have cellphones or any watch that beeps. Sure enough, 2 hours into the test, something beeped. The person didn't get kicked out though. All of our proctors seemed to be sweet substitute grandmas though (except for the two that insisted on gossiping right next to my table). Maybe being grandmas, they were more understanding.


----------



## kmc

I was also one of the many dismissed in the MD exam. As Mac87 is documenting every discrepancy I'm trying to do the same through a Facebook page because the only out of state information I've found is through this board and I didn't know anything about this until someone messaged me through Facebook after seeing my post on the NCEES Facebook page.

I would like to collect first hand experiences so that solid information can be used to try to fight the inconsistencies and at least have our tests graded. 

It's an open group that anyone can join. I'd like to help spread information through that page. If you can, please search fb for it and join it may help someone that is not aware of this forum. The group name is - NCEES Fitbit Dismissal 

Thanks.


----------



## jnuengr

Mac87 said:


> Well, got notification a couple of days ago that my fitbit is being sent back, so they've finished the investigation on at least some of them.


Can you imagine what the "investigation" consisted of? 

I envision senior citizens with a pile of fitbits on a table yelling at each other "I don't know, Harriet! It looks like a damn watch to me!"


----------



## snickerd3

jnuengr said:


> Can you imagine what the "investigation" consisted of?
> 
> I envision senior citizens with a pile of fitbits on a table yelling at each other "I don't know, Harriet! *It **None of them look* like a damn watch to me!"


fixt


----------



## Andrew2288

kmc said:


> I was also one of the many dismissed in the MD exam. As Mac87 is documenting every discrepancy I'm trying to do the same through a Facebook page because the only out of state information I've found is through this board and I didn't know anything about this until someone messaged me through Facebook after seeing my post on the NCEES Facebook page.
> 
> I would like to collect first hand experiences so that solid information can be used to try to fight the inconsistencies and at least have our tests graded.
> 
> It's an open group that anyone can join. I'd like to help spread information through that page. If you can, please search fb for it and join it may help someone that is not aware of this forum. The group name is - NCEES Fitbit Dismissal
> 
> Thanks.


Thanks for the info kmc! If you're nearby, attend the State Board Meeting on May 12th. Many of us have already received the standard reply from NCEES invalidating our exams. My thoughts are that the State Board is our last hope of reversing NCEES' decision...


----------



## Cinnamon

Audi driver said:


> jijir83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man! This sucks!
> 
> In my test in CA, nothing was said about Fitbit. They announced over and over at the start to not have cellphones or any watch that beeps. Sure enough, 2 hours into the test, something beeped. The person didn't get kicked out though. All of our proctors seemed to be sweet substitute grandmas though (except for the two that insisted on gossiping right next to my table). Maybe being grandmas, they were more understanding.
Click to expand...

Which testing site were you at.


----------



## jijir83

Cinnamon said:


> Which testing site were you at.


At Cal Expo in Sacramento.

I didn't really know what a Fitbit was until all these threads though. I don't even remember them saying anything about digital watches. I've always had an analogue one so I may not have given second thought to the digital watch announcement but I think that analogue/digital was in the rule book. I just had a friend show me her Fitbit so I guess it could count as a digital watch with grounds for disqualification.


----------



## kmc

Has anyone had any luck of getting an answer different than "its on page 27 of the agreement you signed" ?

Anyone thinking of trying arbitration?


----------



## humner

Scary how many people bring the wrong calculators or have cell phones or pens in their pockets.


----------



## Cinnamon

jijir83 said:


> At Cal Expo in Sacramento.
> 
> I didn't really know what a Fitbit was until all these threads though. I don't even remember them saying anything about digital watches. I've always had an analogue one so I may not have given second thought to the digital watch announcement but I think that analogue/digital was in the rule book. I just had a friend show me her Fitbit so I guess it could count as a digital watch with grounds for disqualification.


i was in Visalia and Fitbits were called out as contraband. Very non- uniform application of the rules.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Andrew2288 said:


> My thoughts are that the State Board is our last hope of reversing NCEES' decision...


Has anyone ever heard of a State Board overturning an NCEES decision? It is my understanding that it has never happened when it came towards giving a liscence when someone failed an exam. But I don't know if its happened for other reasons?


----------



## Andrew2288

rbheadge said:


> Has anyone ever heard of a State Board overturning an NCEES decision? It is my understanding that it has never happened when it came towards giving a liscence when someone failed an exam. But I don't know if its happened for other reasons?


For the Oct 2013 Exam, Maryland State Board asked NCEES to grade the exams of examinees who were dismissed due to have pencil markings in references if the pencil markings were found to be benign. I believe it was to see if the affected examinees was able to still meet the cut score.. even though they did not finish the exam. I doubt State Board will do that this time...


----------



## Andrew2288

kmc said:


> Has anyone had any luck of getting an answer different than "its on page 27 of the agreement you signed" ?
> 
> Anyone thinking of trying arbitration?


No - that's the reply that I received from NCEES. I doubt that I'm going to pursue arbitration... just hope that State Board allows me to retake in October and study again.


----------



## PBC

jijir83 said:


> At Cal Expo in Sacramento.
> 
> I didn't really know what a Fitbit was until all these threads though. I don't even remember them saying anything about digital watches. I've always had an analogue one so I may not have given second thought to the digital watch announcement but I think that analogue/digital was in the rule book. I just had a friend show me her Fitbit so I guess it could count as a digital watch with grounds for disqualification.


Only place digital watches are banned are the Computer Based Test (which prohibits all watches).  Pencil and Paper tests only bans smartwatches, calculator watches, and fitness trackers.


----------



## PE-ness

Fitbits really confuse me.  I've had one for a while, but sometimes it registers exercise when I haven't even been away from my computer.  The other night, in fact, I was working on my master degree and after I was finished, my fitbit registered over 10,000 steps, yet I hadn't left the computer screen for 3 hours!  

I guess maybe the same thing has happened to the guys at NCEES before, and they just don't trust the things.  I can see how that might happen.


----------



## iwire

PE-ness said:


> Fitbits really confuse me.  I've had one for a while, but sometimes it registers exercise when I haven't even been away from my computer.  The other night, in fact, I was working on my master degree and after I was finished, my fitbit registered over 10,000 steps, yet I hadn't left the computer screen for 3 hours!
> 
> I guess maybe the same thing has happened to the guys at NCEES before, and they just don't trust the things.  I can see how that might happen.


 fittbit does has some form of communication, granted it's bluetooth and the range sucks but still able to communicate to external devices..hence that's all the paranoid about it!


----------



## Dleg

Sounds like @PE-ness needs to take off his fitbit before engaging in "internet research".


----------



## GoldfishJack

Dleg said:


> Sounds like @PE-ness needs to take off his fitbit before engaging in "internet research".


And make sure it's actually on his hand.


----------



## PE-ness

Guys, one day you're going to look back on this incident with fondness, as you're handing down your Fitbit to your grandchildren.  I can see it now:



> Son, this Fitbit was on your Daddy's wrist when he was kicked out of the PE exam in Maryland. He was captured and put in a NCEES prison camp. He knew if the NCEES goons ever saw the Fitbit that it'd be confiscated; taken away. The way your Dad looked at it, this Fitbit was your birthright. He'd be damned if any nerds were gonna put their greasy testmaking hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something. His ass. Five long years, he wore this Fitbit up his ass. And then he died of dysentery, he gave me the Fitbit. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of plastic up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the Fitbit to you.


----------



## Road Guy

If you guys would also like a private area of the forum to discuss here I can hook u up...


----------



## snickerd3

so other than people getting their fitbits back in the mail, has there been any updates on this whole situation?


----------



## Doyee5

Took the Chem PE April 2016. They said specifically no fitbits before the test started. Sorry you were kicked out for it...


----------



## TWJ PE

Maryland Board meeting tomorrow (5/12)?


----------



## P-E

Yes

Agenda:

Step 1 - invalidate all exams

Step 2 - take 999 more steps

adjourn


----------



## RBHeadge PE

humner said:


> Scary how many people bring the wrong calculators or have cell phones or pens in their pockets.


When you think about it. it's a very easy way for NCEES to weed out the engineers who won't pass. Someone who can't follow simple configuration management has no business being a PE.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

P-E said:


> Yes
> 
> Agenda:
> 
> Step 1 - invalidate all exams
> 
> Step 2 - take 999 more steps
> 
> adjourn


You forgot the part where they cancel the October exam too. They have to be certain that this won't ever happen again, better to be safe.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP

I haven't read everything in this thread, but I wasn't sure if anyone else noticed the elephant in the room:  What about all of those steps that haven't been tracked since the exam? How are these test-takers supposed to function in normal society without knowing how many steps they took? Their friends will leave them because they cannot compare step counts. Did NCEES not take this into consideration when they took the fitbits?


----------



## humner

In Vermont, they have been very diligent with making sure that before the exam begins, everyone has turned in anything that may cause an issue.  I am glad for it.  With the volume and change of new electronic devices coming into our lives, how is a test proctor supposed to keep up with it?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Road Guy said:


> If you guys would also like a private area of the forum to discuss here I can hook u up...


Wait!  This isn't private?  Damnit all to hell.


----------



## matt267 PE

Audi driver said:


> Wait!  This isn't private?  Damnit all to hell.


They can see you.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

matt267 PE said:


> They can see you.


That means they can see us all!


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## TWJ PE

Update from tonight's meeting?


----------



## Ken PE 3.1

W9TWJ said:


> Update from tonight's meeting?


Yes, I have it on good authority that they voted to invalidate the whole state due to the fact that they waited 7 hours to remove people. One of the fitbits that was confiscated had been modified.

They said they were sorry, for what it's worth.


----------



## matt267 PE

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Yes, I have it on good authority that they voted to invalidate the whole state due to the fact that they waited 7 hours to remove people. One of the fitbits that was confiscated had been modified.
> 
> They said they were sorry, for what it's worth.


Holy crap that sucks!!!


----------



## Def

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Yes, I have it on good authority that they voted to invalidate the whole state due to the fact that they waited 7 hours to remove people. One of the fitbits that was confiscated had been modified.
> 
> They said they were sorry, for what it's worth.


Modified? Like overclocked it to count steps faster?

That really sucks if anybody that followed the rules is impacted. I would expect at a minimum a free admission to the next round... but I'd still be seething.

As far as keeping up with technology, I don't know why they try to differentiate devices at all. It should be a more inclusionary (rather than exclusionary) statement on what is allowed. Calculator, digital watch, car keys - that's it, nothing else electronic is allowed period. That seems to be the intent of the rules, but obviously it's not worded or communicated well if so many people are wearing their fitbits into the exam (there were a lot in the Houston exam, I was a little surprised...).


----------



## snickerd3

so any real updates on what went down at the Maryland board mtg last night?


----------



## Dexman PE PMP




----------



## snickerd3

^they look european...americans dont dress as spiffy as that


----------



## TWJ PE

My guess:

Whoever: "I am so and so. Blah blah blah, I got screwed. Please grade my exam. At a minimum, please allow me to sit in October."

Maryland Board: "Thank you for your comments."


----------



## TWJ PE

I'm trying to see if there are any meeting minutes but I don't think there are any.


----------



## TWJ PE

Check that... found them. Nothing posted yet from last night.

http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/min/pemin.shtml


----------



## snickerd3

^that was optimistic...IL takes upwards of 6 months or more to add board meeting minutes.


----------



## snickerd3

so @Andrew2288   did you end up going to the meeting?


----------



## Andrew2288

snickerd3 said:


> so @Andrew2288   did you end up going to the meeting?


I did. But I could only stay for an hour... then I had to be at another meeting. 

Unfortunately, they did not address the fitbit issue when I was there. There were a couple others that were there, and I was hoping they would update us.


----------



## TWJ PE

Doesn't surprise me.

What's done is done... sounds like no impact to me.


----------



## TWJ PE

snickerd3 said:


> ^that was optimistic...IL takes upwards of 6 months or more to add board meeting minutes.


Yeah well that state blows, which is why I left! 

True, it will take a couple weeks before they even post them. But it doesn't sound like it was even addressed.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Yes, I have it on good authority that they voted to invalidate the whole state due to the fact that they waited 7 hours to remove people. One of the fitbits that was confiscated had been modified.
> 
> They said they were sorry, for what it's worth.






matt267 PE said:


> Holy crap that sucks!!!


 Seems legit.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

W9TWJ said:


> My guess:
> 
> Whoever: "I am so and so. Blah blah blah, I got screwed. Please grade my exam. At a minimum, please allow me to sit in October."
> 
> Maryland Board: "Thank you for your comments."


It sounds like you've heard this before


----------



## RBHeadge PE

W9TWJ said:


> Check that... found them. Nothing posted yet from last night.
> 
> http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/min/pemin.shtml


Maryland doesn't post the meetings minutes until they are adopted at the next month's meeting.


----------



## snickerd3

so no one stayed to find out??  inquiring minds want to know


----------



## snickerd3

wait, wasn't there a FB started to rally people about this? They probably stayed right?  definitely need to check this thread for the group name and check out this evening


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## TWJ PE

snickerd3 said:


> wait, wasn't there a FB started to rally people about this? They probably stayed right?  definitely need to check this thread for the group name and check out this evening


https://www.facebook.com/groups/1031897510237548/


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## snickerd3

Thanks!  FB is blocked at work.  does it say anything there?


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## TWJ PE

snickerd3 said:


> Thanks!  FB is blocked at work.  does it say anything there?


Not really. I think the hope was that folks would show up and get to comment. Doesn't appear they opened the floor up for comments.


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## MSE? how about me!

DuckFlats said:


> There was no mention of them in FL. I actually don't recall seeing anyone get asked to leave. But I could have just been zoned in.


In Tallahassee one of the proctors called out the guy next to me while they were reading the general exam policies, and he obviously gave up his fitbit. Another person nearby had a smart watch &amp; fitness tracker with a customizable face that they just turned to analog and didn't get noticed.


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## DuckFlats

I was in Kissimmee. It was tough to hear the main proctor, but the one for our zone didn't mention them.


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## MSE? how about me!

snickerd3 said:


> yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned


I think technically they only receive? I guess it depends on if your definition of communication includes one-way...


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## Bcbillings

At the Iowa exam the proctor specifically asked at the start of instructions and again before they distributed the test I would say a good 12 people turned them in... even with that one person was asked to leave for having one in the afternoon.


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## lfigler12

snickerd3 said:


> yeah...so do atomic watches which aren't baned


If you don't have your cell phone what sort of communication capabilities would they have?


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## PBC

I was at the MD site, but unaffected by the Great FitBit Controversy of 2016. Just got my notice from the NCEES (Passed!), so thats one datapoint for they didn't invalidate the entire site.


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## matt267 PE

PBC said:


> thats one datapoint for they didn't invalidate the entire site


Who said that would happen?

Congrats on passing!!


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## Andrew2288

Hey guys, 

FYI.. Maryland released their results today. Congrats to all that passed.

View attachment Presentation1.pdf


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## Audi Driver P.E.

Andrew2288 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> FYI.. Maryland released their results today. Congrats to all that passed.
> 
> View attachment 8252


What does the "more information" tell you?


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