# April vs. October



## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 5, 2016)

Maybe my observational skills are lacking (very possible) but it seems like the board here is less busy surrounding the April exam than it was just before the October exam.  Are there generally more October test takers?  Anyone else noticing this?


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## starquest (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd find that preparing for this text in the summer months; with longer daylight hours, nice weather, vacations, and just the increase in 'summer related' activities like yardwork, etc. wouldn't be as productive. 

I already made the decision that if I were not to be successful next week, I will be waiting until next April's exam to retake.

Kevin


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## GoldfishJack (Apr 5, 2016)

I always assumed there were more test takers in October because of how graduation + experience falls. People trying to get their applications in by the June deadline when they graduated in May.


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## ptatohed (Apr 5, 2016)

starquest said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but I'd find that preparing for this text in the summer months; with longer daylight hours, nice weather, vacations, and just the increase in 'summer related' activities like yardwork, etc. wouldn't be as productive.
> 
> I already made the decision that if I were not to be successful next week, I will be waiting until next April's exam to retake.
> 
> Kevin


My friend has a theory that the cut score is higher in April for this very reason.  For the Apr exam, you have the people that were homebound for the winter and had little else to do but study.  For the Oct exam, everyone was out enjoying the summer weather and not studying as hard. 

He took the exam in April (2014?) and he failed with a score of 56 (Civil Transpo)!  He passed in October.  lol


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## matt267 PE (Apr 5, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> My friend has a theory that the cut score is higher in April for this very reason.


Bullshit



ptatohed said:


> For the Oct exam, everyone was out enjoying the summer weather and not studying as hard.


That's their fault and deserve to fail.

oking:


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## P-E (Apr 5, 2016)

starquest said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but I'd find that preparing for this text in the summer months; with longer daylight hours, nice weather, vacations, and just the increase in 'summer related' activities like yardwork, etc. wouldn't be as productive.
> 
> I already made the decision that if I were not to be successful next week, I will be waiting until next April's exam to retake.
> 
> Kevin


That's the reason I took it in April.


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## matt267 PE (Apr 5, 2016)

Also, some people take the exam in October because they miss the April application deadline.


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## ptatohed (Apr 5, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> Bullshit
> 
> That's their fault and deserve to fail.
> 
> oking:


I don't know man.  I am not saying that for sure the theory is correct but I'd say it has some legitimacy.


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## GoldfishJack (Apr 5, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> Bullshit
> 
> That's their fault and deserve to fail.
> 
> oking:


Yes! It was hard trying to stay on schedule when the sun was beckoning.


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## matt267 PE (Apr 5, 2016)

GoldfishJack said:


> Yes! It was hard trying to stay on schedule when the sun was beckoning.


That's why I studied in the basement.


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## arminator_06 (Apr 5, 2016)

My testing location in ten days is at a senior citizens center in a suburb of Cincinnati, which I would imagine has a small occupancy rate if we each have our own table (first time PE examinee myself). For those who have already sat for the exam, approximately how many other PE examinees where taking it the same day (April and/or October) and location as you were? Five years ago when I sat for the FE there were at least 75 people in a large convention center.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Apr 5, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> My friend has a theory that the cut score is higher in April for this very reason.


According to the article in PE magazine about the exams, that's a myth.



> MYTH Exams administered in the fall are more difficult than those in the spring (or vice-versa).
> 
> TRUTH The scoring process negates any differences in difficulty. Examinees are graded against a standard of minimum competence. If the exam is more difficult, the required passing score is lowered. Conversely, if the exam is less difficult, the required passing score is raised. An examinee is neither penalized nor rewarded for the difficulty of the exam.



- See more at: http://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/march-2016/the-ultimate-test#sthash.yqS2N3I1.dpuf


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 5, 2016)

arminator_06 said:


> My testing location in ten days is at a senior citizens center in a suburb of Cincinnati, which I would imagine has a small occupancy rate if we each have our own table (first time PE examinee myself). For those who have already sat for the exam, approximately how many other PE examinees where taking it the same day (April and/or October) and location as you were? Five years ago when I sat for the FE there were at least 75 people in a large convention center.


There were about a hundred at my center (I don't remember actually.  I counted at the time but have forgotten.  I was surprised at how many), but keep in mind they are from all disciplines.  At my testing center I shared a table with a civil engineering test taker.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 5, 2016)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> According to the article in PE magazine about the exams, that's a myth.
> 
> - See more at: http://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/march-2016/the-ultimate-test#sthash.yqS2N3I1.dpuf


I note that their "myth" about the test being harder at one time or another isn't exactly debunked by their answer.  Even if the cut score makes the passing "easier" the test may indeed be a harder exam.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Apr 5, 2016)

Audi driver said:


> I note that their "myth" about the test being harder at one time or another isn't exactly debunked by their answer.  Even if the cut score makes the passing "easier" the test may indeed be a harder exam.


Yeah, good point. So, I guess if the exam is harder, you just need less points to pass? Or if it's easier, then you need more points to pass. That seems fair.

I took it back in the "old days" when you had to get 60% to pass regardless, and if you had a harder exam, you were SOL.....


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 5, 2016)

P-E said:


> That's the reason I took it in April.


The reason I took it in October was because I hadn't made up my mind until it was really too late to start studying for an April exam.  I really didn't think it through, because it seriously cut into a lot of activities I wanted to do, especially hunting.  But I didn't want to wait until the following April either.


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## thekzieg (Apr 5, 2016)

I took it in October because I failed the April exam and I wanted to re-test during the same calendar year before they redistributed the number and types of problems, banking that there would be at least a little overlap between my April exam and the one I saw in October (which turned out to be a valid assumption).


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## ptatohed (Apr 5, 2016)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> According to the article in PE magazine about the exams, that's a myth.
> 
> - See more at: http://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/march-2016/the-ultimate-test#sthash.yqS2N3I1.dpuf


Understood but I still feel the theory holds true.  Your linked article also says that the cut score is determined based in exam difficulty.  I suspect that when fewer people (those who didn't study as much as they should have during the late spring/summer/early fall) get certain problems correct, those problems are more likely to be deemed 'difficult', and thus a possible lower cut score.  Hey, when else have we ever seen such a high fail score of 56/80 than April 2014?    



arminator_06 said:


> My testing location in ten days is at a senior citizens center in a suburb of Cincinnati, which I would imagine has a small occupancy rate if we each have our own table (first time PE examinee myself). For those who have already sat for the exam, approximately how many other PE examinees where taking it the same day (April and/or October) and location as you were? Five years ago when I sat for the FE there were at least 75 people in a large convention center.


lol at 75.  There were hundreds and hundreds of examinees at my FE and my PE in southern CA. 



thekzieg PE said:


> I took it in October because I failed the April exam and I wanted to re-test during the same calendar year before they redistributed the number and types of problems, banking that there would be at least a little overlap between my April exam and the one I saw in October (which turned out to be a valid assumption).


Mmm... tkPE, I have a hard time believing that there would be repeat questions on the exams of adjacent administrations.  You sure?  Whenever I hear of two adjacent exams being compared, I always hear how very different they are.


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## thekzieg (Apr 5, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> Mmm... tkPE, I have a hard time believing that there would be repeat questions on the exams of adjacent administrations.  You sure?  Whenever I hear of two adjacent exams being compared, I always hear how very different they are.


100% sure. There were definitely two morning questions that were identical to my April exam.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Apr 5, 2016)

arminator_06 said:


> My testing location in ten days is at a senior citizens center in a suburb of Cincinnati, which I would imagine has a small occupancy rate if we each have our own table (first time PE examinee myself). For those who have already sat for the exam, approximately how many other PE examinees where taking it the same day (April and/or October) and location as you were? Five years ago when I sat for the FE there were at least 75 people in a large convention center.


I had probably around 200 total examinees in Cleveland oct 14


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## JHW 3d (Apr 6, 2016)

arminator_06 said:


> My testing location in ten days is at a senior citizens center in a suburb of Cincinnati, which I would imagine has a small occupancy rate if we each have our own table (first time PE examinee myself). For those who have already sat for the exam, approximately how many other PE examinees where taking it the same day (April and/or October) and location as you were? Five years ago when I sat for the FE there were at least 75 people in a large convention center.


In Pomona, CA last October, our exam site was in an exhibition hall that's designed for the fairground. Up near 1000 people in our building I would guess. That doesn't include other buildings in the complex that had testing going on.

When I took the EIT exam in 2009, we were in the big building. It felt like an airplane hangar.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 6, 2016)

I had two different location experiences for FE and PE.  FE i was in a musty old church basement on metal folding chairs with about 30 others while the others where in a newly remodeled lecture hall with padded office swivel chairs in the Computer science/engineering building at university.

PE was in a hotel bar/lounge on banquet chairs and plywood folding tables with about 50 people.


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## RBHeadge PE (Apr 7, 2016)

Some tests are only offered in October. But that's probably not enough to make up for the dependency overall. IIRC there isn't too large a difference in the number of spring and fall exam takers. But for whatever reason, the boards here are busier for the October exams.


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## glockjacket P.E. (Apr 9, 2016)

For what its worth using the internet time machine to get april 2015 results, heres october 2015 compared to april (they did not post test taker volumes in April):


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## ptatohed (Apr 9, 2016)

gj, I can't see April's.


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## bulls2030 (Apr 9, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> My friend has a theory that the cut score is higher in April for this very reason.  For the Apr exam, you have the people that were homebound for the winter and had little else to do but study.  For the Oct exam, everyone was out enjoying the summer weather and not studying as hard.
> 
> He took the exam in April (2014?) and he failed with a score of 56 (Civil Transpo)!  He passed in October.  lol


Isn't like a 56/57 a passing score? i thought around a 70% would be passing, I am also taking the civil transportation exam and I just took the ncees practice exam and I scored a 57/80


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## ptatohed (Apr 9, 2016)

bulls2030 said:


> Isn't like a 56/57 a passing score? i thought around a 70% would be passing, I am also taking the civil transportation exam and I just took the ncees practice exam and I scored a 57/80


The cut score varies administration to administration and discipline by discipline.  We've seen it as low as about 53-54 and as high as 56 for Civil.  But typically a 56 is a safe goal to shoot for.


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## glockjacket P.E. (Apr 9, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> gj, I can't see April's.


updated


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## bulls2030 (Apr 9, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> My friend has a theory that the cut score is higher in April for this very reason.  For the Apr exam, you have the people that were homebound for the winter and had little else to do but study.  For the Oct exam, everyone was out enjoying the summer weather and not studying as hard.
> 
> He took the exam in April (2014?) and he failed with a score of 56 (Civil Transpo)!  He passed in October.  lol


Isn't like a 56/57 a passing score? i thought around a 70% would be passing, I am also taking the civil transportation exam a



Cool. You had me worried for a second. Still should keep studying and aim for a higher score to keep a buffer.


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## matt267 PE (Apr 10, 2016)

For October 2015, I think the pass score was 45/80. I think this because I actually passed.


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