# California CA Civil PE Application Engagement Record and Reference Form



## ddcivilengr (Feb 23, 2017)

If anyone can help me, it is much appreciated. I contacted the board and their answer was very vague and I don't want to have my application kicked back.

Here is my situation:

I graduated in Dec. 2014 with my master's in civil engineering. After graduation I worked at a construction project management firm where I was not doing design work (no qualifying experience). After that, I was hired as a civil engineer. I have been at this company for currently 18 months (enough qualifying experience to apply in California). I have been on the same project for 18 months, with the same supervisor. All of my other references will be co-workers that I work side by side with.

1) Do I have to write about the non-qualifying experience in Section 2 of the application, or should I just mention it in the blank space below? It says there should be no gaps except for unemployment. Again, it was not under a licensed PE and does not make sense to me if I have to get a reference from my previous supervisor. And as it says on Section 2 of Engagement Summary and References, "All the names of your reference must be listed on this page". If I have to write my old job as engagement 2 and list my old supervisor, do I have to use them as a reference?

2) Does the qualifying experience (18 months) only get listed under my current supervisor's engagement form/section of the application? i.e. Do I put 0 months under my other references? 

FYI, this was the board's reply, " The engagement record portion of the forms must be completed in sufficient detail to allow the Board to determine that the nature and the extent of the engineering work claimed to have been performed by the applicant has indeed been qualifying . " Thanks for the clarification California... :wacko:

Thank you.


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## youngmotivatedengineer (Feb 23, 2017)

Im not familiar with CA, but in New Jersey only 2 years out of the 4 has to be in design phase. I also had a similar situation where I worked for Construction management company for 5 years after college. Like you it did not qualify towards my experience (there was no PE supervising me) so I left it off my experience records.  However, since it was such a long time I used my boss/company owner as a reference.  I'm not sure if it helped or not, but I wanted to find someway to advise the board about those 5 years in construction management where I was dealing with clients, architects/engineers, town inspectors etc. on a daily basis.  If you decide to include it, make sure you meet all of the requirements for the qualifying experience first. In NJ we had to have at least 3 PE's with direct knowledge of my qualifying work and a total of 5. Since the 1 guy was not a PE and wasn't qualifying experience, I made sure all of the others were in fact PE's in case the last reference did not get counted.  

Have you tried calling the board and speaking to someone directly?  Keep in mind that board members can not show any favortism, therefore any information they give you. especially if it is through email or written down, is going to be a basic repeat of the standard instructions/guidelines. You may also want to have a friend, who is not an engineer, and/or not familiar with exactly what you do, and see what they get from your application and if they feel like you would be qualified as engineer based on your application. .


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## CAPLS (Feb 23, 2017)

ddcivilengr said:


> If anyone can help me, it is much appreciated. I contacted the board and their answer was very vague and I don't want to have my application kicked back.
> 
> Here is my situation:
> 
> ...


1. Based on the information stated at the top of Section 2 of the civil engineer application, I would suggest only listing the references and experience that is applicable to the license that you are applying for and which correspond with the included engagement/reference forms.  In another manner of speaking, make sure that each engagement/reference form submitted is listed in the Section 2 summary.  And then in the Remarks space at the bottom of the same page say something like "After graduation with MS until MM/DD/YYYY, I was employed by a construction project management firm and I'm not claiming engineering experience."  It at least shows you were involved in a peripheral industry.

2. Based on what you stated, I would advise you to include all 18 months in one engagement under that supervisor in responsible charge and then the remaining 3 engagements can be for the same time period claiming 0 months with a different reference listed.  And that reference would need to clarify relationship on their portion of the form such as 'Co-worker/Associate'


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## ddcivilengr (Feb 24, 2017)

@CAPLS Just the information I was looking for, Thank you very much!


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## Maji (Feb 24, 2017)

@CAPLS I really appreciate you taking the time to reply... I am sure this is going to help a lot of future applicants who maybe doing a web search looking for answers to similar questions.


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## samopuddles (Mar 15, 2017)

CAPLS said:


> 1. Based on the information stated at the top of Section 2 of the civil engineer application, I would suggest only listing the references and experience that is applicable to the license that you are applying for and which correspond with the included engagement/reference forms.  In another manner of speaking, make sure that each engagement/reference form submitted is listed in the Section 2 summary.  And then in the Remarks space at the bottom of the same page say something like "After graduation with MS until MM/DD/YYYY, I was employed by a construction project management firm and I'm not claiming engineering experience."  It at least shows you were involved in a peripheral industry.
> 
> 2. Based on what you stated, I would advise you to include all 18 months in one engagement under that supervisor in responsible charge and then the remaining 3 engagements can be for the same time period claiming 0 months with a different reference listed.  And that reference would need to clarify relationship on their portion of the form such as 'Co-worker/Associate'


Quick and dirty...been at same firm since I graduated around 5 years ago, just moved to Cali, have my PE in a different State. Small firm so only two references will be PE's I work with but I have many friends who are licensed.

So you're saying I put my two co-workers (one who was the engineer in charge of me) as "experience" for the 5 years and then put the other three (one as co-worker, two as associate) for 0 months?


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## ptatohed (Mar 15, 2017)

samopuddles said:


> Quick and dirty...been at same firm since I graduated around 5 years ago, just moved to Cali, have my PE in a different State. Small firm so only two references will be PE's I work with but I have many friends who are licensed.
> 
> So you're saying I put my two co-workers (one who was the engineer in charge of me) as "experience" for the 5 years and then put the other three (one as co-worker, two as associate) for 0 months?


The way I understand it is you need 24 months of experience under the supervision of a licensed PE(s), and you need 4 PE references.  But the 4 references don't necessarily need to be your supervisor.  So, you could have 1 supervisor for 24 months (giving you 1 of 4 references and covering your time requirement) and then 3 more co-workers PEs which would give you your remaining 3 needed references.  Or 2 supervisors over the 24 months and 2 co-workers.  Etc.  Does that make sense?


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## samopuddles (Mar 15, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> The way I understand it is you need 24 months of experience under the supervision of a licensed PE(s), and you need 4 PE references.  But the 4 references don't necessarily need to be your supervisor.  So, you could have 1 supervisor for 24 months (giving you 1 of 4 references and covering your time requirement) and then 3 more co-workers PEs which would give you your remaining 3 needed references.  Or 2 supervisors over the 24 months and 2 co-workers.  Etc.  Does that make sense?


That part I guess I understand, to better phrase my question: If I have 24 months of licensed PE supervision, can I have 3/4 references be people that I don't work with? I work at a very small company that doesn't work with other engineers much due to the nature of our business.


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## CAPLS (Mar 16, 2017)

samopuddles said:


> That part I guess I understand, to better phrase my question: If I have 24 months of licensed PE supervision, can I have 3/4 references be people that I don't work with? I work at a very small company that doesn't work with other engineers much due to the nature of our business.


The required work experience must be gained under the supervision of an individual licensed in the branch of engineering for which the applicant is applying for or legally authorized in the jurisdiction where the work was performed.  That means at least 1 of your professional references must have been in a supervisory role over your work.  If all the experience can be covered under 1 reference, that's fine.  If the experience is gained under more than 1 reference, that is fine.  If you can cover the required experience with only 1, 2, or 3 references, the remaining 3, 2, or 1 references must be licensed or legally authorized and familiar with your work experience.  If that is co-workers, that is fine.  If that is other associates that are familiar with your work experience and can certify to your ability to be licensed, that is fine.


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## ptatohed (Mar 16, 2017)

CAPLS said:


> The required work experience must be gained under the supervision of an individual licensed in the branch of engineering for which the applicant is applying for or legally authorized in the jurisdiction where the work was performed.  That means at least 1 of your professional references must have been in a supervisory role over your work.  If all the experience can be covered under 1 reference, that's fine.  If the experience is gained under more than 1 reference, that is fine.  If you can cover the required experience with only 1, 2, or 3 references, the remaining 3, 2, or 1 references must be licensed or legally authorized and familiar with your work experience.  If that is co-workers, that is fine.  If that is other associates that are familiar with your work experience and can certify to your ability to be licensed, that is fine.


So Ric, I was never too sure on this.... an applicant's reference can be someone who works for a different firm than the applicant (so long as they are familiar with the applicant's work)?


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## CAPLS (Mar 16, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> So Ric, I was never too sure on this.... an applicant's reference can be someone who works for a different firm than the applicant (so long as they are familiar with the applicant's work)?


Sure, as long as that reference is not certifying to supervising work experience.


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## samopuddles (Apr 12, 2017)

CAPLS said:


> The required work experience must be gained under the supervision of an individual licensed in the branch of engineering for which the applicant is applying for or legally authorized in the jurisdiction where the work was performed.  That means at least 1 of your professional references must have been in a supervisory role over your work.  If all the experience can be covered under 1 reference, that's fine.  If the experience is gained under more than 1 reference, that is fine.  If you can cover the required experience with only 1, 2, or 3 references, the remaining 3, 2, or 1 references must be licensed or legally authorized and familiar with your work experience.  If that is co-workers, that is fine.  If that is other associates that are familiar with your work experience and can certify to your ability to be licensed, that is fine.


When you say branch...my supervisor was an SE and I am Civil. Does that count as same discipline according to the CA board?


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## CAPLS (Apr 12, 2017)

Generally speaking, yes.  To be an SE in California, you are required to be licensed as a Civil Engineer first.  And structural engineering is considered a component of civil engineering in California.


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