# AutoCad/Microstation Class



## JoeysVee (Dec 8, 2009)

I had an AutoCAD class in college but I have pretty much forgotten everything. I would like to pick either AutoCAD or Microstation back up but I'm not sure how to do that. AutoCAD is used more nationally, I think, but around here (my industry) Microstation is used more. The local technical college has a certificate program but I don't want to go near that in depth.

I just want to be familiar enough to make small changes to 2D drawings like the other Engineers I work with. I would like to take a class that is like 3 or 4 weekends long (or equivilant). I think I can pick up what I need in that amount of time....again most of it will come back to me since I've done it before.

-Is there a cheap way to get either AutoCAD or Microstation just to learn with?

-What do yall suggest as far as a class?

-Is it easy to go from Microstation to AutoCAD and vise-versa...meaning does it matter which one I learn if it's easy to use the other once you learn one of them?

Thanks in advance for all the info!

:bananapowerslide:


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

JoeysVee said:


> -Is there a cheap way to get either AutoCAD or Microstation just to learn with?
> -What do yall suggest as far as a class?
> 
> -Is it easy to go from Microstation to AutoCAD and vise-versa...meaning does it matter which one I learn if it's easy to use the other once you learn one of them?
> ...


- BitTorrent

- Use the built in tutorials...they will get you to a minimum level of competence, then you can pick up the rest of what you need once you get a job that requires it.

- No. MS and ACad are very different. I can't do shit in MS, but I'm a few steps away from being an ACad power user. You are correct though, that you only need to learn one in most cases. Civils use MS more than ACad in most areas.


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## Vishal (Dec 8, 2009)

For MS, look up on Bentley's website they have some training programs (may not be online though). There are other vendors who provide MS training, just search online and you will find the info.


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## Santiagj (Dec 9, 2009)

AutoCAD for the Win!

ProEngineer is the suck.

Microstation is soso.


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## Mutha PE PS (Dec 9, 2009)

I have used both Microstation and AutoCAD. They both have pros and cons. But they are both pretty similar. Microstation commands work exactly opposite from AutoCAD. That was the hardest thing to overcome fro me.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 9, 2009)

I had an ACAD module in a freshman engineering class in college that covered it for all of 3 weeks. They don't teach drafting skills in colleges anymore, to the future engineer's detriment, but that's another rant.

I knew I was underqualified, so I took a non-credit introductory ACAD class at the local community college. Two nights a week for 6 weeks. Just enough to learn how to turn it on and do basic linework. It gave me enough knowledge to be able to figure out the more complicated stuff on my own from there.


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## Fluvial (Dec 9, 2009)

^^ That's what I did too. I went to Uni at a time before there was such a thing as AutoCAD. I took the class at our local community college which was one night a week for a semester. The rest I picked up as I went along.


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## JoeysVee (Dec 9, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I took a non-credit introductory ACAD class at the local community college. Two nights a week for 6 weeks. Just enough to learn how to turn it on and do basic linework. It gave me enough knowledge to be able to figure out the more complicated stuff on my own from there.


That sounds like the type of class I need to take.


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## JoeysVee (Dec 9, 2009)

I guess I'll go the Microstation route. Anyone know if they have a version people can use to learn on? If I used it as part of a business to make money I would think they would want you to buy the full blown version but to learn on would hopefully be different.

Thanks!


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 9, 2009)

I would also suggest buying lunch for your CAD guys and have them teach you.

I have used both ACAD and MS. Both work if you understand their relative platforms. AutoCAD is more about the command line whereas microstation is more into icons. ACAD 08 and newer is working really hard to implement MS-based commands and features so being able to go from one to the other is becoming easier. The really funny thing that differentiates between the two is the program size. Microstation fits on a single CD, whereas the current network-based autoCAD can get upto 19 gigs. Amazing they do essentially the same thing.

I was an AutoCAD guy from day one. Never really trained in it, but after doing several design projects (our office has the engineers do the cad work), you pick up on the commands and shortcuts. Production started slow, but it picked up quickly. Granted, you don't really learn the "why" portion of the commands you use that you would learn in a class. THis was all fine and dandy, until we picked up a TexDOT project that was exclusively microstation. We basically brought in a guy to teach a couple of us on the fly how to do it.

IMO, the best way to learn is to just do it. Ask questions of the guys who do this for a living, most are more than willing to teach.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 9, 2009)

JoeysVee said:


> I guess I'll go the Microstation route. Anyone know if they have a version people can use to learn on? If I used it as part of a business to make money I would think they would want you to buy the full blown version but to learn on would hopefully be different.
> Thanks!


Both microstation (Version 8 and the new one,V8i) and any version of AutoCAD (including LDD and Civil 3d) have tutorials to walk you through most of the basics. I know AutoDesk (owner of AutoCAD) has online tutorials and help support as well. Not sure if Bently (microstation) does or not.


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## Santiagj (Dec 9, 2009)

During my undergrad at University of Maryland design software classes were not even offered. A bunch of the civil students met with the deen to voice our opinion on the matter. He told us flat out that engineers do not use AutoCAD. Total BS.

I wound up taking an autocad short course during my last winter semester. We were able to convince someone to come in and give us a brief class. I don't think i would have been hired if I had zero cad experience. I don't like the way academia is heading with this.


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## MGX (Dec 9, 2009)

The best method to learn is by doing. Download a 30 day trial and run through the tutorials.

AutoCAD is a bit of a dinosaur with hundreds of commands, but to do basic drafting you should only need 25 or less.

Regarding Microstation I can't help you much, other than I can't stand it and the government seems to like it. Their layer system is terrible and obsolete; layers should be capable of having names instead of needing to reference a number then deciphering what it is.

I echo what other say that drafting isn't really taught to undergrad engineering students. Part of one 3 hour course was dedicated to 3 different programs; at best learning how to use the software and nothing at all about proper drafting techniques. One can learn to use a program, but it takes a bit of patience and skill to make usable drawings.

Another thing I would recommend is to find an old drafting book published before 1985; that will teach you how it is supposed to be done at least for 2D depictions.


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## TXCoogPE (Dec 9, 2009)

MGX said:


> Regarding Microstation I can't help you much, other than I can't stand it and the government seems to like it. Their layer system is terrible and obsolete; layers should be capable of having names instead of needing to reference a number then deciphering what it is.



MS has updated their program so that in the newer versions, you can create new levels/layers with any name you would like to assign to it . Plus, you can now reference another drawing's library into a new file and copy all the levels that exist in the reference file into the active file. It doesn't help, though, when we get files from other companies that stick with the old level numbering system (1-63). Then we are stuck with having to decipher what each level number stands for. There are times we make a copy of the original file, just to rename the levels and make them more manageable.

As far as learning MS, the help menu as well as the Bentley website are wonderful sources of information on how to run the program. Training classes are good for picking up the basics, but a lot of times you will have to be doing something that is a little more involved than what they do cover, or the way your company wants it done is not the way Bentley goes about showing it.


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## JoeysVee (Dec 9, 2009)

Is there a cheap version of microstation I can use at home after work just to learn with? I just want to pick up the basics then start appying it at work when needed and continue to learn on the job. But first I need a copy to learn with at home and maybe take a class to pick up the basics. Then as I learn on the job I'll ask the designers than work with it daily.

Thanks!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 9, 2009)

^ Maybe there's a student version you can get. They sold 'light' or 'student' editions of various programs for a heavily discounted rate at my college. The only catch is that functionality is very basic.


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## MA_PE (Dec 9, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ Maybe there's a student version you can get. They sold 'light' or 'student' editions of various programs for a heavily discounted rate at my college. The only catch is that functionality is very basic.


My (limited) experience is that the Student Versions of the software are limit the size of the drawing/project not necessarily the function.

I got a student version of MatLab that did everything the full-blown version did but the matrix size was limited to like 256 numbers.

We had AutoCad LT but I don't believe that AutoDesk sells it anymore.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 9, 2009)

In college they had us on ACAD R14 LT. The one I used in the comm college was was 2000.

I haven't seen LT in years either. I think the big difference was that it was limited to 2D apps.


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## Fluvial (Dec 9, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I haven't seen LT in years either. I think the big difference was that it was limited to 2D apps.


I use LT because it's not as expensive as the full-blown AutoCAD and I don't need all the fancy stuff, just basic drawing capabilities and compatibility with other folks' drawings.

My son is slowly working his way through an Engineering Tech program at the local CC. They still teach them board drafting, as well as AutoCAD.


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## MGX (Dec 9, 2009)

LT is still sold and works great for many applications. I know of no way to do 3D in LT, at least not effectively.


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## JoeysVee (Dec 9, 2009)

Lt is AutoCAD, right? I think I'm going to do Microstation.


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## MGX (Dec 9, 2009)

AutoCAD LT is the name of the product.

If you are mechanical perhaps you might look into Solidworks or Pro E, they're much more user friendly today than even a few years ago.


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## jeb6294 (Dec 9, 2009)

It's been a while since I've been in our Microstation at work, but I think v8 has an AutoCad 'translator' built in. I seem to remember you could pull it up and punch in the command you use to do something in AutoCad and it would tell you what the corresponding command in MS.


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## JoeysVee (Dec 10, 2009)

I found out today that since we have Microstation at work, Bentley will provide a license for us to use at home as long as we agree not to use it for money making purposes. So I will be getting it here at home to practice with. Now I just need to find a course or something.

I was thinking about taking http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Training/Prod...on+Training.htm

But I can not find out how much this training costs. Anyone know???


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 10, 2009)

JoeysVee said:


> I found out today that since we have Microstation at work, Bentley will provide a license for us to use at home as long as we agree not to use it for money making purposes. So I will be getting it here at home to practice with. Now I just need to find a course or something.
> I was thinking about taking http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Training/Prod...on+Training.htm
> 
> But I can not find out how much this training costs. Anyone know???


If you need it at work, then why isn't your company paying for your training?


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## JoeysVee (Dec 10, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> JoeysVee said:
> 
> 
> > I found out today that since we have Microstation at work, Bentley will provide a license for us to use at home as long as we agree not to use it for money making purposes. So I will be getting it here at home to practice with. Now I just need to find a course or something.
> ...


they will


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 10, 2009)

JoeysVee said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> > JoeysVee said:
> ...


In that case, just contact your local Bentley distributor and ask about their training opportunities. All of the formal CAD training I have received have been from local distributors. They can bring in trainers from Bentley or AutoDesk, or they can teach the courses themselves.


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