# SE 2-day



## McEngr (Apr 10, 2011)

I would love for someone to comment on their experience of taking the 2-day SE exam. Please tell us the main issues that you dealt with such as: 1) time management, 2) level of difficulty compared to SE II and SE III, 3) anything helpful that would not be seen as breaking the honor code of collusion.

Thanks!


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## TheJuiceisLoose (Apr 11, 2011)

McEngr said:


> I would love for someone to comment on their experience of taking the 2-day SE exam. Please tell us the main issues that you dealt with such as: 1) time management, 2) level of difficulty compared to SE II and SE III, 3) anything helpful that would not be seen as breaking the honor code of collusion.
> Thanks!


After taking 16 hours of examinations....my brain is still fried on Monday.

In my mind, Time Management was a key ingredient. With the vast amount of material that could have been put on these exams, it was near impossible to be prepared for every single question that one would face. Therefore, for those problems that you got "stuck" on, you had to decide to move on and come back to it later. A typical approach to the SE exam, just is as employed in the PE exams. It is VERY easy to make simple mistakes and miss obvious things when you are rushing to finish. I found this even more harsh when you are rushing to finish essay questions....its not as simple as taking a 25% guess at a multiple choice question. I stayed the entire 4 hours and worked down to the last minute for both morning sessions and both afternoon sessions. The afternoon essay questions were quite time consuming since you had to show all of your work. I mismanaged my time badly for the Vertical loads essay problems and found myself scrambling to get work done on many of the problems at the end. I was much better time managed on the lateral loads afternoon session, but that was due to the fact that I was more comfortable with the questions.....not that I knew how to do all of them, but had an idea on most of them and gave it my best shot.

Overall, I felt decent after both morning sessions and the Saturday afternoon session. I am hoping to at least pass one if not both.....but as we all know....its hard to judge how we really did. I am just gonna give it to God and hope for the best. It was quite an experience that I can honestly say I hope not to repeat. I definitely don't want to take back to back exams again. So, I hope I pass at least one!


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## McEngr (Apr 11, 2011)

Hey Juice, what's your background? Are you facilities, tower, bridge? I am a little worried about bridge design and was wondering your assessment of difficulty (of course it's relative).


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## TheJuiceisLoose (Apr 11, 2011)

McEngr said:


> Hey Juice, what's your background? Are you facilities, tower, bridge? I am a little worried about bridge design and was wondering your assessment of difficulty (of course it's relative).


My background is more in industrial structures and marine facilities design. I took the Building Essay Afternoon sessions. I neglected to mention that in the original post. I haven't used AASHTO heavily in practice but I am familiar with it (albeit versions prior to the 2007 edition). However I was not familiar enough (or comfortable enough) to have ventured into taking the Bridges Essay Afternoon sessions.


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## jyeiser (Apr 11, 2011)

I felt about the same. The mornings were not so bad, but the afternoons were long. I just really hope they do not penalize me for poor penmanship.


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## colostructural (Apr 12, 2011)

Honestly, I thought both the morning and afternoon questions were fairly balanced. Morning questions on the vertical portion seemed almost too easy - but in reality, they left just enough time to not feel rushed towards the end, I walked out during the lunch break wondering how many "easy and wrong" solution bubbles I filled in. Afternoon vertical had a good mix of some straight-forward and interesting problems. One thing I definitely realized, is that it pays to turn the page to make sure you are getting the full picture. Not doing that, forced me to backtrack a little bit and have to pick up the speed later on. Morning lateral was, in my opinion, somewhat more difficult than the morning vertical, though it was fair and definitely not impossible. Afternoon lateral required some tricks to speed up the process, but I thought it was a well thought out problem set. I was finishing up the last section of the last problem when the instructor announced "You now have 1 minute". By pencils down on Saturday afternoon, I felt pretty good about the exam as a whole. Not knowing what to expect, I was really expecting the absolute worst and it turned out to be much more reasonable then I ever would have hoped for. I definitely used every minute of each 4 hour section. There were not too many "squirrely" questions or "poorly worded time sucks" as some of my peers thought would be peppered throughout - being a new exam. You could tell NCEES is taking this exam seriously and I say kudos to them! I took the Building module and the girl sitting in front of me was taking the Bridge module. She also seemed to be pretty satisfied with the quality of questions and the amount of time they required. Then again Bridge had 3 problems, Building had 4 so I am not sure how that works out. I was told by one of the proctors that 30 people took the SE Friday exam (we were mixed in with the PEs) and only 12 of us masochists took the Saturday exam (we were mixed in with the FEs) here in Denver.


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## Eddierizzle (Apr 12, 2011)

What I would like to know if those that took the 16 hour exam felt it to be a better format than the previous Structural I and II format, talking to people that took the previous format but didnt pass. Also did the NCEES new study material really prepare you?


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 12, 2011)

Great feedback guys I will be taking new SE 2011 Oct. Good luck i hope you pass.


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## Ble_PE (Apr 12, 2011)

I pretty much agree with what has already been said. Time management is the key for the exam. I would say it was a challenging test. It wasn't over the top hard, but it was fair. The sample test the NCEES put out is a pretty accurate representation of what you can expect. I never took the SE 1 or 2, so I can't compare it to them. I just hope I passed because I don't want to do that again.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 12, 2011)

Wait a sec - I didn't realize you were taking the new SE Ble?

I thought you were already PE'ed up?

Did you go civil/structural to straight structural?

I'm probably going to do the civil/env-wr once I finish my MBA since the way my career has gone has been more towards site civil than hardcore envl.


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## Ble_PE (Apr 12, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> Wait a sec - I didn't realize you were taking the new SE Ble?
> I thought you were already PE'ed up?
> 
> Did you go civil/structural to straight structural?
> ...


Yea, I took the civil-structural in October 09 to get my PE. I decided to give the SE a go this time around since it was still based on the same codes I used for the PE. Does it matter for you if you get the civil PE vs. the Envl one? I guess it depends on the state, but I wasn't sure what the distinction was.


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## hansel (Apr 12, 2011)

I took the gravity load exam only. I was sure that my brain could not sustain the double dose 8x2 hours exam. In fact by the afternoon around 3:00 I started asking what I was doing there.

Anyway, I agree with what has been said so far. Friday morning was pretty straight forward, though I don't know how much I got right or wrong. Afternoon was a little more challenging but doable. Time was of essence.


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## Tam (Apr 13, 2011)

I took Oct 2010 Structural-I, if i remember correct, there were lot of questions based on AASHTO (i guess approx. 50% in both am and pm). I just want to know whether it was the same on both morning sessions in Apr 2011....i'm just curious .


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## McEngr (Apr 14, 2011)

To all those who can recall the morning session, do they feel that the 6-minute solutions structural problems published by PPI are adequate preparation for the gravity portion? How about the lateral morning portion?

Yes... I have the NCEES sample problems and solutions, but I also want further study.

Thanks!


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## mjbikes (Apr 14, 2011)

McEngr said:


> To all those who can recall the morning session, do they feel that the 6-minute solutions structural problems published by PPI are adequate preparation for the gravity portion? How about the lateral morning portion?
> Yes... I have the NCEES sample problems and solutions, but I also want further study.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes. I used them and the morning sessions didn't seem too bad. Finished early on both. Treating all multiple choice problems you work on as 6 minutes per problem is good practice for getting used to the pressure of keeping on track in the exam. Also, chapter 8 of the SERM was adequate for the lateral AM, but not the vertical AM, IMO. I hope not having spent $240 on one more bridge reference did not lead to my downfall on the vertical.


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## *Ananda* (Apr 14, 2011)

I felt good about the AM sessions on both the vertical and lateral. I feel like I failed to demonstate adequate knowledge on all four essay questions of the afternoon session of the vertical. I felt good about the essay portion of the lateral.

I have never taken the SE I, SE II or SE III so I cannot compare.

By far the most difficult thing for me was "time management" on the essays. I found that flailing through the first day essays helped a lot on the second day to be more prepared to respond to all essay content. I was not well prepared to demonstrate knowledge for the essays given the broad content and the very limited time given.

Anyone have advice for how to best demonstrate knowledge on the essays given the limited time?

For example, is an essay solution outline w/out calculations due to time constraints considered an acceptable format to demonstrate knowledge?

Is it expected that correctly calculated solutions to all essay questions be provided in order to pass?

Anyone who passed SE II or SE III have strategy tips for answering SE essays?

My essay tips would be:

1. Do not linger on any one item whether you know it well or not. Keep moving along at a very fast pace.

2. Read very carefully so no time is wasted pursuing something not asked.

3. Work problems in order? They all need to be answered, and a fast pace is needed to move through all. Going back forth the first day scewed up any sort of pace. Spending too much time "aceing" what I knew well came at the expense of failing to have time to demonstrate I know how to solve some of the other essay questions asked.


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## Tam (Apr 15, 2011)

Did you guys get lot of questions based on AASHTO in both morning sessions?



*Ananda* said:


> I felt good about the AM sessions on both the vertical and lateral. I feel like I failed to demonstate adequate knowledge on all four essay questions of the afternoon session of the vertical. I felt good about the essay portion of the lateral.
> I have never taken the SE I, SE II or SE III so I cannot compare.
> 
> By far the most difficult thing for me was "time management" on the essays. I found that flailing through the first day essays helped a lot on the second day to be more prepared to respond to all essay content. I was not well prepared to demonstrate knowledge for the essays given the broad content and the very limited time given.
> ...


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## kevo_55 (Apr 15, 2011)

*Ananda* said:


> Anyone who passed SE II or SE III have strategy tips for answering SE essays?


Practice makes perfect. Do all of the practice problems you can. When you run out of them, make your own up.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 15, 2011)

kevo_55 said:


> *Ananda* said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who passed SE II or SE III have strategy tips for answering SE essays?
> ...


anybody here give me great tips for SE 2 days, I would appreciate. Form books to use, codes no of hours to study and even wht topics to focus on.

thanks


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 15, 2011)

STEEL MAN said:


> kevo_55 said:
> 
> 
> > *Ananda* said:
> ...


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## *Ananda* (Apr 16, 2011)

Tam said:


> Did you guys get lot of questions based on AASHTO in both morning sessions?


I can't say what I saw, but NCEES is very clear about you should expect to see. Click on the SE Exam Specification links. You'll see that AASHTO content and particular AASHTO are codes specified. You can further deduce from the NCEES Exam Specification info that AASHTO only makes up a fraction of the total content you need to prepare for.

NCEES also sells a book they advertise as "the equivalent of an entire 16-hour STRUCTURAL exam". I didn't count up the number of AASHTO questions in the book as a total of all questions but you could do that to see if it amounts to "a lot".

I took the buildings portion of the exam, since I focus more on buildings than bridges, and I wrote above in my earlier post what I found to be far the most difficult aspect of the exam.


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## civilengineer75 (Apr 16, 2011)

*Ananda* said:


> Tam said:
> 
> 
> > Did you guys get lot of questions based on AASHTO in both morning sessions?
> ...


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## civilengineer75 (Apr 16, 2011)

I took both days of the SE exam. It was tiring but one can take both parts and be ok. I thought the vertical afternoon portion and the lateral morning were difficult. The vertical morning was easy and the lateral afternoon was easy. I would say do "study" but work problems. My friend and I spent too much time reviewing and not enough time doing. I will be surprised if I pass but you never know.

I wonder do the bridge questions carry equal weight if one takes the building portion or will building problems carry more weight? Anyone know? Also, I thought the amount of work we were asked to complete in four hours was nearly impossible. I am a PE and if a client said do these four designs and I will let you bill me for four hours then I would say "pound sand." I mean, we are too busy and have a nice day!


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## McEngr (Apr 17, 2011)

civilengineer75 said:


> I took both days of the SE exam. It was tiring but one can take both parts and be ok. I thought the vertical afternoon portion and the lateral morning were difficult. The vertical morning was easy and the lateral afternoon was easy. I would say do "study" but work problems. My friend and I spent too much time reviewing and not enough time doing. I will be surprised if I pass but you never know.
> I wonder do the bridge questions carry equal weight if one takes the building portion or will building problems carry more weight? Anyone know? Also, I thought the amount of work we were asked to complete in four hours was nearly impossible. I am a PE and if a client said do these four designs and I will let you bill me for four hours then I would say "pound sand." I mean, we are too busy and have a nice day!


I believe that the multiple choice questions are equal weight. It would be a illogical to do otherwise - graders don't have hearts, they have minds... ).

And I completely agree with you on the afternoon questions, but there are plenty of construction issues, cost issues, and judgement issues that will never be calculated or quantified by those questions. I've taken the SE ii and iii and I think they do a decent job of testing competency. I don't believe competency is the total equation of a good engineer, but how else can we measure an engineer's ability without putting objectivity into it?


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## jillhill (Apr 17, 2011)

1. Did people think the SERM was a good preparation, were there other really helpful books (my thought is SERM would not be good for Vertical)

2. Are there any good Review courses online? Webinars? Videos?

3. Anyone know when they are going to change the codes to the new Versions?

4.Anyone wish they would have just take one of the days instead of both?

Thinking about an attempt in Oct 2011

THanks,


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## civilengineer75 (Apr 19, 2011)

jillhill said:


> 1. Did people think the SERM was a good preparation, were there other really helpful books (my thought is SERM would not be good for Vertical)
> 2. Are there any good Review courses online? Webinars? Videos?
> 
> 3. Anyone know when they are going to change the codes to the new Versions?
> ...


Here is what you need to pass:

1. Pencil and paper

2. Calculator

3. Lots of time spent with as many sample test problems your able to work

4. SERM

5. All of the design codes listed by NCEES

6. Rework every problem from ALL of your old college textbooks.

7. Patience of a saint


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## civilengineer75 (Apr 19, 2011)

McEngr said:


> To all those who can recall the morning session, do they feel that the 6-minute solutions structural problems published by PPI are adequate preparation for the gravity portion? How about the lateral morning portion?
> Yes... I have the NCEES sample problems and solutions, but I also want further study.
> 
> Thanks!



If you can work all of the problems in 6 minutes and get the correct answers without looking in the back of the book then you are well-prepared for the Gravity Portion. No secrets except lots of hard work. Brush up on advanced topics like shear walls and diaphrams. The NCEES list is the exact exam topics. It is a staight forward exam but you do not have time to "figure out" topics. You know it or you don't. That simple. I just hope I knew "enough."


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## civilengineer75 (Apr 21, 2011)

McEngr said:


> civilengineer75 said:
> 
> 
> > I took both days of the SE exam. It was tiring but one can take both parts and be ok. I thought the vertical afternoon portion and the lateral morning were difficult. The vertical morning was easy and the lateral afternoon was easy. I would say do "study" but work problems. My friend and I spent too much time reviewing and not enough time doing. I will be surprised if I pass but you never know.
> ...


I could envision a grading plan that gave more weight to the building multiple choice questions for people that took the building afternoon portion. It seems unfair that Oregon will not accept the bridge exam for issuing a SE. I would have preferred bridges because the are much easier due to the fact there is one code that covers all materials. With buildings it seems that one needs a dozen codes to cover everything.

The regulations state the building portion must be taken. This is going to be a real surprise to people that take the exam and pass only to be rejected in the application phase. Perhaps this will be changed?


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## RGCSQUARE (May 27, 2011)

Hello all, I took the saturday test, LATERAL forces. I took the test in Virginia. I was the only one taking the exam at the test center.

Any body else took the LATERAL forces test in VA? how busy was it at your site?

I think the fewer candidates taking the test the better chances to get a passing score, what is your opinion on that?

Was I the only one taking the saturday exam in the whole USA ?...lol


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## ipswitch (Jun 3, 2011)

jillhill said:


> 1. Did people think the SERM was a good preparation, were there other really helpful books (my thought is SERM would not be good for Vertical)
> 2. Are there any good Review courses online? Webinars? Videos?
> 
> 3. Anyone know when they are going to change the codes to the new Versions?
> ...


School of PE now offers a webinar SE review class for about $900.


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## kevo_55 (Jun 3, 2011)

^^ I see that Kaplan offers something like this as well.

I would be curious to see how well these classes actually are.


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## mercury3030 (Jun 3, 2011)

kevo_55 said:


> ^^ I see that Kaplan offers something like this as well.
> I would be curious to see how well these classes actually are.


I took the Kaplan online course and it helped. The lateral portion of the class was really helpful....the gravity portion not so much. It also depends on who is teaching the course, some teachers are a lot better than others.


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## jillhill (Jun 5, 2011)

ipswitch said:


> jillhill said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Did people think the SERM was a good preparation, were there other really helpful books (my thought is SERM would not be good for Vertical)
> ...



I took School of PE for SE1 and I thought it was HORRIBLE!! I took the School of PE for the civil exam also (I know, risky to take it again when I had a horrible experience the first time). THe Civi class was much better, but the Structures class was from a professor i had the first time and still Horrible! So I will see if it's the same teachers but probably won't go with School of PE. I think I'll do Kaplin or passpe.com

Would love to hear more who took Kaplin


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