# Let's talk about health, baby!



## ODB_PE (Dec 4, 2007)

One of my biggest concerns is the cost of my healthcare plan, since my wife stays at home with 2 children. Most places seem to pay for the employees health care, but I hear mixed things when it comes to family benefits. Currently I pay $600/month for a limited HMO for my family.

My pre-engineer life consisted of working for a large, national company with decent benefits. (Employee+Family ~$300/month)

It is well known that large companies get a huge break from the underwriters. Also, there are extreme differences from state-to-state.

So I am asking the following:

What does your firm charge for spouse+children?

What State?

What size of company?

Thanks in advance. I plan on using this information come head-butting time.


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## frazil (Dec 4, 2007)

wow, $600/month is a lot! I pay about $200/month for family insurance. The company puts in about $580/month. I have a federal blue cross &amp; blue shield.


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## jfusilloPE (Dec 4, 2007)

_What does your firm charge for spouse+children?_

Too damn much! I opted, for the first time ever to get involved in a HDHP plan with an HSA. My current family plan only costs $80/month and I add $250/month into the Health Savings Account that is interest bearing. I was never really a fan of the HDHPs until I researched them pretty well. Our other plans (HMO and PPO) are roughly $500-$600/month.

_What State?_

I am in Florida, but our company headquarters is in Phoenix, AZ.

_What size of company?_

We have about 700 employees nationwide. The funny thing is that I worked for a huge global firm, and the rates were not much better.

I spoke with an agent before about getting my own privatized insurance, and the cost was astronomical! He began to tell me that the biggest problem with health insurance is that the rates are based upon the previous years usage, and since most plans don't have a pre-existing clause, some companies get beat up.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2007)

ODB --

FWIW - I have heard that is about the going rate for health insurace on the private side.

Much like frazil, I work for govt so my health insurance is $180/mo - don't recall my employers match. It is Florida BC/BS - State PPO (20% co-pay in-network provider, 40% co-pay for out-of-nework provider). I also have options for a few HMOs and medical spending accts.

At the beginning of the year, we are switching to my wife's insurance based on my anticipated departure from my current employment. With her, it is a bit more - $140/twice per month for health (HMO).

Good luck with negotiating a better rate or pay raise to cover health insurance!

JR


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## benbo (Dec 4, 2007)

I work for the State, California. I pay about $230 a month for me, my wife and kid. THey pay about $1000. That's for Blue Shield HMO. There are cheaper and more expensive plans, such as a more choice limited HMO or a PPO.

As an old geezer I can remember when I worked for Hughes Aircraft in the 80s early 90s. For a while, they paid all the health insurance, plus a defined benefit retirement plan AND a 401K with a $2 match for every $1 I put in up to around 8% of my pay. It was insane. No wonder they ended up laying off a bunch of folks.


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## jroyce (Dec 4, 2007)

I have Highmark Blue Shield and they have two plans set up. One plan has a high deductible ($1000/person) and a low monthly premium and the other one is a low deductible ($500/person) and a high monthly premium.

Family coverage:

HDLP - $108 monthly

LDHP - $188 monthly

I am in PA and I don;t know the company match.


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## ClemsonEngr (Dec 4, 2007)

Health for employee and spouse is covered by my employer. BCBS. We are a small company in florida.


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## Jennifer Price (Dec 4, 2007)

_What does your firm charge for spouse+children?_

[SIZE=10pt]*DENTAL INSURANCE – **[/SIZE]*[SIZE=10pt]Preventative – No Deductible, 100% Covered[/SIZE] 

[SIZE=10pt]*VISION CARE – **[/SIZE]*[SIZE=10pt]Max Benefit of $200/Employee Per Calendar Year, No Deductible, 50% Covered[/SIZE] 

*[SIZE=10pt]Medical Insurance – [/SIZE]*[SIZE=10pt]$100 Deductible/Person/Calendar Year (Max $300/Family Unit/Calendar Year), No Premium[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]_What State?_[/SIZE]

North Carolina

_[SIZE=10pt]What size of company?_[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]125 Employees[/SIZE]


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## kevo_55 (Dec 4, 2007)

We just got the talk for our insurance this morning.

I work in a small/mid sized company, (~250 people) in Minnesota. Our plan provider is Medica.

Our new plan this year is a HRA. (High deductible with a seperate reinbursement account) For this, it costs $520 per month for a family.

If you get single coverage, my company pays the monthly fee.

Does anyone have any experiance with a HRA? I'm thinking about doing it this year.


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## FusionWhite (Dec 4, 2007)

I have insurance which only covers me. Cost is $100 a month which is pricey IMO for a non-smoker, young, healthy male. My wife has insurance through her fathers company and through her job she takes a flex package which we use to cover our deductables.


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## MA_PE (Dec 4, 2007)

What does your firm charge for spouse+children?

My contribution is ~$250/mo. Company contributes ~$950/mo.

What State?

MA

What size of company?

We 're a consulting firm with ~350 people nationwide (~200 here in MA)


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## Flyer_PE (Dec 4, 2007)

Company size - 10 Full time, 20 part time.

Location - Illinois

Health Insurance premium: $1635/mo - Family Coverage

The only saving grace is that it's pre-tax.


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## SSmith (Dec 5, 2007)

frazil said:


> I pay about $200/month for family insurance. The company puts in about $580/month. I have a federal blue cross &amp; blue shield.


These stats look just about the same to what I get through the government. FYI, they recently added a section to our paystubs to show "what the government pays for us" each pay period. I was pretty shocked that health insurance was so high.


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## jfusilloPE (Dec 5, 2007)

Health insurance will never change until the politicos remove themselves from the pockets of the insurance industry. Since PAC contributions are so high to all political parties, things will never change. I believe that even if we get some type of "universal health care system" premiums will still be outrageous, but only for those who contribute (who are you and I)...


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

jfusilloPE said:


> I believe that even if we get some type of "universal health care system" premiums will still be outrageous, but only for those who contribute (who are you and I)...


I believe that is the sad conclusion at the end of the day. Anyone who thinks that all of the major insurance providers, excuse me - managed health care professionals, will step to the side and take a bite in thier business is insane.

Ideally, I think universal health care is the right thing to do. I don't think the right political or moral climate exists in order to achieve a goal that retains the quality of healthcare and doesn't sink your pocketbook.

:2cents:

JR


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## Flyer_PE (Dec 5, 2007)

The trick with nationalized health care for me is that it's just more government control being inserted into a system that is as screwed up as it is due to the magnitude of government involvement. Part of the reason the premiums are so high is because we've become so lawsuit happy in this country that the financial risks of doing anything are outrageous. Once they allowed lawyers to take cases on contingency, all downside financial risk for the plaintiff was removed. No matter how your own behavior is to blame for a perceived wrong, you can find a lawyer that will file suit in the hopes of striking big money out of the deepest pockets available. Whether you win or lose, the defendant has legal bills to be paid. The only thing your lawyer is out is his own time. He can just keep filing these things until he manages to convince a jury somewhere that you deserve some outrageous amount of money (he gets his share of course) since the guy that built the saw failed to warn you strenuously enough of the dangers of disabling the safety mechanisms.

If the government fixes the price that can be charged for health insurance and the costs of the claims exceeds the income from the premiums, who makes up the shortfall?

Another little detail that seems to be overlooked is that the quality of the service will decline. This will happen automatically if a monopoly is established for health insurance. As soon as your option of taking your business to provider B is taken away, provider A can treat you as badly as they wish. Considering recent negative headlines regarding treatment of soldiers by the VA, the VA is government supplied health care.

Rant off.

Jim


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## SSmith (Dec 5, 2007)

I think the natural progression for Health Care industry will follow what has happened with retirements. First there were pensions that have been replaced by 401k's entirely. Now where there is predominantly premium based insurance, my guess is in 10-15 years it will be completely flip-floped with HDHP and other similar plans taking their place as 401k analogues.


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## ODB_PE (Dec 5, 2007)

IFR_Pilot said:


> Company size - 10 Full time, 20 part time.
> Location - Illinois
> 
> Health Insurance premium: $1635/mo - Family Coverage
> ...


That is absolutely horrible. $20K/year! What's up with that?

The curious thing is that I have heard that Illinois is one of the best states to get healthcare because of something to do with the state laws. Until now, that was supported by the fact that one of my buddies works for a firm based in Chicago (though he lives in TX) his healthcare is great and his cost is ~$200/month for family. His explanation was that the firms HQ is in IL.

The health care thing is spiraling out of control - my politics skew to the right, and I'm not a proponent of Universal Health Care - but the lawsuit factor and greed of the drug/insurance companies has got to be put in check. It seems like you get penalized for being responsible in this country.

(carrying health insurance when you're healthy and taking out a mortgage with a fixed interest rate that you can afford - but that's another soap-box for another day)


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## Dark Knight (Dec 5, 2007)

$1684 a month for a family plan. I pay $118 and the company the rest.

You are not going to believe this but on my first job out of college I paid nothing for the health insurance and it was great. In 1993 I had to bring my son to Florida to an open heart surgery and the plan covered 80% of the costs. When I contacted the Doctor to make a payment schedule for the difference he told us to forget about that. God bless his heart wherever he is now.


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## frazil (Dec 5, 2007)

This is a good thread!

What is an HDHP plan?


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## ktulu (Dec 5, 2007)

I currently carry COBRA from my previous job (BCBS). It's $776/mo, but I still only pay what I did previously ($376/mo) for family coverage. Good thing about it that it pays 100% pregnancy coverage.


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## jfusilloPE (Dec 5, 2007)

An HDHP is a High Deductible Health Plan. In essence, I pay a low monthly premium and add money into an interest bearing Health Savings Account.

I do not pay a co-pay when I go to the doctor's office, I pay an "established" fee to the provider from the money that I set aside in the savings account. Unfortunately, there is the "high deductible" part which I think is $5000, but all payouts (office visits, x-rays, prescriptions) go towards that deductible amount.

I was very much against these when they first came out, but, fortunately for me, my family is not "sickly" so it worked out well. Also, there are many things that are completely covered annually and I don't have to pay for them, such as annual ob visits for my wife and my daughters over the age of 16, well baby checks and immunizations for my 3 year old.

So, this plan actually worked out well for us this year, and I even declined vision and dental insurance because I can pay for those items out of my health savings account.

Once you meet your deductible, I believe the co-pays and 80/20 splits may take over, and if I decide to cancel my insurance, I get a refund (taxed) of the savings that is left there.


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## MA_PE (Dec 5, 2007)

jregieng said:


> I believe that is the sad conclusion at the end of the day. Anyone who thinks that all of the major insurance providers, excuse me - managed health care professionals, will step to the side and take a bite in thier business is insane.
> Ideally, I think universal health care is the right thing to do. I don't think the right political or moral climate exists in order to achieve a goal that retains the quality of healthcare and doesn't sink your pocketbook.
> 
> :2cents:
> ...


"Universal" health care implies an equal level of treatment/care for all people regardless of status. It is my belief that the progress in the medical field is advancing at a rate comparable to all "technology" fields. To truly have "universal" health care implies that all individuals are entitlted to "state of the art" treatments for a given illness. The cost of state of the art treatments is by nature often much greater than the "typical" treatments. I don't think that society can bear the expense of offering this level of treatment to all. As a result, IMHO "universal" health care will result in a lesser quality for those of us contributing to the system as it improves the quality of the "welfare"-type sector of the population in order to force equilibrium.

It's like saying, "universal" TV. So everyone should have a "state of the art" 50 in. plasma screen, right? I doubt it. They'll take away your 50 in. plasma if your lucky enough to have one and handout 20 in. CRT's to everybody (especially those who don't have a set at all). The wealthy will simply go out and buy another 50 in. plasma (and feel a little pinch but not much), the middle class will not be able to afford a new plasma so they end up with the 20 in. CRT, and the lesser priviliged are better off because they started with nothing and now have a TV to watch.

This would not be good thing for middle-class America (of which I consider myself part) because they are the only losers.

I also agree wholeheartedly with IFR's rant on the legal system. How come a surgery can have a "80% chance of success" but according to the lawyers, thier client should not have been one of the 20% failures. If no failures are accepted then you need a 100% success rate???

/rant off.


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## MA_PE (Dec 5, 2007)

> my family is not "sickly" so it worked out well.


and I hope it continues that way forever.

My only reason for quoting this statement is; Isn't that what ALL insurance is about? You're only really ever underinsured, when you need to use it.


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## udpolo15 (Dec 5, 2007)

MA_PE said:


> My only reason for quoting this statement is; Isn't that what ALL insurance is about? You're only really ever underinsured, when you need to use it.


Agreed, but I think people abuse health insurance. You don't buy auto insurance to pay for regular maintenance, you buy if for catastrophic stuff. People expect health insurance to cover everything, but they don't want to pay for it. People have become accustomed to holding out their insurance card and don't alway have a handled on the actual cost of service. That the reason for the emergence of the high deductible plans. They want people to start thinking about health care cost, but still provide coverage for the catastrophic event. I think these plans are going to replace the traditional health care plans in the near future. Every year my company lowers the employee contribution on the high deductible plans and raise the contribution on the traditional plans.


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## MA_PE (Dec 5, 2007)

udpolo15 said:


> Agreed, but I think people abuse health insurance. You don't buy auto insurance to pay for regular maintenance, you buy if for catastrophic stuff. People expect health insurance to cover everything, but they don't want to pay for it. People have become accustomed to holding out their insurance card and don't alway have a handled on the actual cost of service. That the reason for the emergence of the high deductible plans. They want people to start thinking about health care cost, but still provide coverage for the catastrophic event. I think these plans are going to replace the traditional health care plans in the near future. Every year my company lowers the employee contribution on the high deductible plans and raise the contribution on the traditional plans.


"You don't buy auto insurance to pay for regular maintenance, you buy if for catastrophic stuff."

FWIW, this is a poor analogy. Here in MA the bulk of your auato insurance goers to cover damage you might cause to others. An extended warranty plan (also insurance) would cover vehicle maintenance and if you pay enough, it actually may include routine maintenance.

That being said, these HDHP's sound similar to our dental plan. The plan "covers" routine visits (twice a year cleanings and typical x-rays, etc.) but the premiums are established so that the total premiums paid total the cost of these items plus. Therefore, the insurance company expects to pay these and then "insures" or "bets" against any major work (root cnals, etc.) and the co-pay is proportional (ours is 50:50). The insurance company is getting interest on your premiums that it knows it will pay out and risks the remainder that you won't require major work.

Hypochondriacs end up paying more in the end.

Face it all insurance is a bet. for example look at a $500,000 life insurance policy with a $500/ annual premium. This is the same as betting the insurance company 1000:1 that the insured will not die this year. If he/she dies, you win.


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## IlPadrino (Dec 5, 2007)

Uncle Sam Insurance:

Medical care for me, my wife, and son: $0.

Dental care for me: $0

Dental care for my wife and son: $18/month for prophylactic care and I think a 20% copay on restorations, etc.

Of course, they say you get what you pay for...


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## C-Dog (Dec 7, 2007)

My company just came out with a high deductable plan and their regular plan. I went with the high deduct plan, because if we have a healthy year (no ER visits or hospitalizations) we will save over $2000! If we have a bad health year the 2 plans are about the same total cost (with in $100 or so).

The only thing that sucks with the high deduct. plan is that your payments come in lump sum, if you get seriously sick.


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