# So, how did it go?



## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 14, 2014)

So, now that another 16 hour structural exam is out of the way, how do you feel? *(Please remember not to post exam questions, NCEES watches and all that!)*

Personally, I think it went okay. I only took lateral (passed vertical last year) but overall it was pretty much what I expected. I did however find a dimensional error on the afternoon questions. Anyone have a guess what NCEES does in this case? It definitely caused me to loose some time as I started to work the problem using the neoconservative dimensions and then had to go back around and revise my answer.


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## steve1997 (Apr 15, 2014)

I took Lateral as well and also passed the Vertical last spring. This is my second time taking Lateral and I feel that it was tough. The morning was not to bad and I worked through that pretty well, but the afternoon hurt. I prepared more for this test than I have for any test in the past and felt discouraged when I left. This test is tough and I suppose there is a reason that the pass rate is always in the 30 percentile!


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## Agostage (Apr 15, 2014)

Took lateral (2nd try). AM was by far my best from any previous. I could have walked out almost an hour early. There were just a lot of nuance seismic that I knew without looking it up. I guess that's the point of the process. The PM was difficult but not impossible. They definitely make you interpret and use your judgment versus giving you obvious paths. I feel like I performed much better than last time, let's hope I'm not delusional.


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## NJ1 (Apr 15, 2014)

I took lateral first time (passed vertical earlier). Did better than expected in AM. Did less than expected in PM (knew everything but ran out of time).

Question for the 2nd time takers - usually what is the percentage required for passing? I found information on passing rate (% of people passed), but not on % required to pass?


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## dussbucs (Apr 15, 2014)

NJ1 said:


> I took lateral first time (passed vertical earlier). Did better than expected in AM. Did less than expected in PM (knew everything but ran out of time).
> 
> Question for the 2nd time takers - usually what is the percentage required for passing? I found information on passing rate (% of people passed), but not on % required to pass?




I took Lateral (Bridges) for the 4th time this past weekend. The AM multiple choice has been burning me. But I think I may have done the best on the AM out of all my attempts this time around. I'm a bit worried about the PM Footings problem they threw our way this time. Really was not expecting it.

As for the % to pass, that has always been a big mystery. Purely speculating here, but I believe you need to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 28 to 30 correct to pass the AM portion. No clue about the PM and whether or not you need Acceptable on all problems or some combination of Acceptable and Improvement Required/Unacceptable.

My previous 3 results have been:

April 2012: 22/40 AM; Acceptable on both 1-hour problems; Improvement Required on 2-hour problem

April 2013: 18/40 AM; Acceptable on all 3 problems

October 2013: 20/40 AM; Acceptable on all 3 problems


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## WSU_Coug (Apr 15, 2014)

Took gravity and lateral (buildings) for the first time (Seattle, WA)... wow. I can see why this exam has the reputation it does!

I studied probably a total of around 140 hours, and the one area I can say I should have studied more was masonry design. There were a few masonry problems on the exam that were unfamiliar to me and threw me for a loop.

I'm worried about the vertical exam. I had one problem in the afternoon that saved for last, came back to it with 45 mins left, and burned about 20 mins trying to derive something that it turns out was on the next page! I kind of froze after that and tried to write out my thought process but I'm sure I won't get an "acceptable" on that one. The other 3 I felt fairly confident about. Morning I'm guessing I probably have around 30/40 due to some guesses on problems that I saved for the end and ran out of time.

I felt better about the lateral exam, but I just fear the stupid mistakes I make when I try to rush through problems. Right after the test I was sitting in my car thinking over the problems and realized at least a few things I should have done differently...

Oh well. I guess now we get to wait for a few months!

I can honestly say the preparation for this test has made me much more well versed as an engineer, and also showed me the areas I need to work on.

Now I get my weekends / evening back to spend with the fam again instead of studying - and hopefully don't have to go through that painstaking process again!


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 15, 2014)

Yes to all of these!

burned about 20 mins trying to derive something that it turns out was on the next page!

I can honestly say the preparation for this test has made me much more well versed as an engineer, and also showed me the areas I need to work on.
Now I get my weekends / evening back to spend with the fam again instead of studying - and hopefully don't have to go through that painstaking process again!


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## NJ1 (Apr 16, 2014)

Dussbucs,

Thanks for sharing the information. This is really useful.

Do you need to achieve an acceptable on all three (Bridge) questions? Or the afternoon is graded as one exam?

Now I am even more worried.........

I agree, I was not expecting the foundation question as well.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 16, 2014)

Everything I've read shows that it's a combination of the two scores from morning and afternoon. How they're combined is anyone's guess.


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## dussbucs (Apr 17, 2014)

Exactly. I've tried doing all sorts of crazy voodoo, like printing out the AM diagonostic reports and dropping a ruler on the bar charts to gauge how many you need in each "knowledge area" to get past that magical "average of passing examinees" vertical line. That's how I come up with the 28 +/- 2??? questions correct to pass the AM. Puts you right around the 70% to 75% mark.

As for the PM, I'll make another speculation here: Since the problems are likely weighted equally (i.e., 25% for each on Buildings PM, 25% / 25% / 50% for the Bridges PM), I'll guess you need to get "Acceptable" on at least 75% of the PM problems. So for Bridges PM, that may mean you need to nail down that 2-hour problem for sure. But who knows, seriously. And if you somehow ace the AM (40/40), maybe that will compensate for a lower performance in the PM essays...

Has anyone recently passed the SE in Texas?

I believe they give actual scores on the *PE exam* for those who pass. I know in Pennsylvania where I used to live, they do not give any information if you pass.


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## cajone5 (Apr 17, 2014)

dussbucs said:


> Exactly. I've tried doing all sorts of crazy voodoo, like printing out the AM diagonostic reports and dropping a ruler on the bar charts to gauge how many you need in each "knowledge area" to get past that magical "average of passing examinees" vertical line. That's how I come up with the 28 +/- 2??? questions correct to pass the AM. Puts you right around the 70% to 75% mark.
> 
> As for the PM, I'll make another speculation here: Since the problems are likely weighted equally (i.e., 25% for each on Buildings PM, 25% / 25% / 50% for the Bridges PM), I'll guess you need to get "Acceptable" on at least 75% of the PM problems. So for Bridges PM, that may mean you need to nail down that 2-hour problem for sure. But who knows, seriously. And if you somehow ace the AM (40/40), maybe that will compensate for a lower performance in the PM essays...
> 
> ...




I passed the PE and SE in TX. They gave a grade on the PE (92% or something) when I passed. The SE just said "Acceptable" or something like that.

Also originally from PA (Shillington)


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## dussbucs (Apr 17, 2014)

Nice. Congrats on passing both the PE and SE!

I'm Eastern PA myself. A-town.


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## cajone5 (Apr 18, 2014)

dussbucs said:


> Nice. Congrats on passing both the PE and SE!
> 
> I'm Eastern PA myself. A-town.


Thanks!

Also very cool -- I went to Lehigh for my BS and MS


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 18, 2014)

cajone5 said:


> dussbucs said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. I've tried doing all sorts of crazy voodoo, like printing out the AM diagonostic reports and dropping a ruler on the bar charts to gauge how many you need in each "knowledge area" to get past that magical "average of passing examinees" vertical line. That's how I come up with the 28 +/- 2??? questions correct to pass the AM. Puts you right around the 70% to 75% mark.
> ...




Great info, thanks.


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## dussbucs (Apr 18, 2014)

cajone5 said:


> dussbucs said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Congrats on passing both the PE and SE!
> ...




No kidding! Lehigh BS '03 &amp; MS '05


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 18, 2014)

It's a small world, huh?


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## cajone5 (Apr 21, 2014)

dussbucs said:


> No kidding! Lehigh BS '03 &amp; MS '05




Nice. BSCE 07 and MSSE 09

So I expect with your background you'll pass this time with no issues 

But about the TX SE... I wonder what is going on because we are always well below the NCEES averages for passing rates...

http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/exam_passfail.htm

http://ncees.org/exams/se-exam/

This tells me that either we are graded harder or we're just dumber/less prepared. Either way it's disappointing to think about. Looking back at pass rates in TX, less than 60 people have passed the exams since they were offered 3 years ago (58 have passed lateral to date). It's crazy.


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## CRNewsom (Apr 21, 2014)

> But about the TX SE... I wonder what is going on because we are always well below the NCEES averages for passing rates...


I suspect that it has something to do with the nature of Texas. The state is very large, so it is likely that most of the work done is within the state (see Connecticut for comparison). The majority of the state has no major earthquake, rain, snow, or wind loading. This leaves a fairly large hole in both the vertical and lateral experience for someone to try to fill.

With time and preparation, I am sure that you will do well. Even if it you didn't make the cut this time.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 21, 2014)

CRNewsom said:


> > But about the TX SE... I wonder what is going on because we are always well below the NCEES averages for passing rates...
> 
> 
> I suspect that it has something to do with the nature of Texas. The state is very large, so it is likely that most of the work done is within the state (see Connecticut for comparison). The majority of the state has no major earthquake, rain, snow, or wind loading. This leaves a fairly large hole in both the vertical and lateral experience for someone to try to fill.
> ...


That makes sense. In Maine we see plenty of wind and snow loads but never rain or seismic controlling (excepting weird low structures with high occupancy categories). I've definitely had a lot of catching up to do in regards to seismic design.


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## usayoung (Apr 21, 2014)

it seems i am the only one concerning about the vertical exam result. I took the bridge vertical only. i was able to complete #1. then i realized i spent more than 1.5 hours to finish #1, so I skipped #2, and moved onto #3 but i could only finish about 70% but not all the #3. I think i solved about 26 quetions in the morning, and i had to guess the remaining questions. Do i have some hope? Please..


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## Chuckolat (Apr 22, 2014)

dussbucs said:


> cajone5 said:
> 
> 
> > dussbucs said:
> ...


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 22, 2014)

usayoung said:


> it seems i am the only one concerning about the vertical exam result. I took the bridge vertical only. i was able to complete #1. then i realized i spent more than 1.5 hours to finish #1, so I skipped #2, and moved onto #3 but i could only finish about 70% but not all the #3. I think i solved about 26 quetions in the morning, and i had to guess the remaining questions. Do i have some hope? Please..




You might but that's going to be hard. If you get 75% of your solved questions right and about 50% of your guesses right then you MAY be just inside the passing range, but that's going to require a lot of lucky guesses. Then, for the afternoon you'll probably get one acceptable and two needs improvement. I believe neither of the morning or afternoon will be sufficient so I'd definitely plan on having to take it again.


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## CRNewsom (Apr 22, 2014)

usayoung said:


> it seems i am the only one concerning about the vertical exam result. I took the bridge vertical only. i was able to complete #1. then i realized i spent more than 1.5 hours to finish #1, so I skipped #2, and moved onto #3 but i could only finish about 70% but not all the #3. I think i solved about 26 quetions in the morning, and i had to guess the remaining questions. Do i have some hope? Please..


If I read you correctly, the second question was left unanswered. If that is the case, it will likely be scored "unacceptable". From what I have seen, one "unacceptable" is enough to knock you out completely. Not trying to be a downer, but the odds are certainly tilted against you.


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## usayoung (Apr 22, 2014)

For the second quesion of the afternoon exam, i just wrote some notes at each sub-quesitons about what i was trying to do.

On the remaining sub-questions of Q#3 i did the same. I think i left 3 out of 10 something on Q#2. If i have answered correctly for all of the morning segment of i solved (26 questions) May i have some hope?


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't believe so, hate to say it.


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## cajone5 (Apr 23, 2014)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> I don't believe so, hate to say it.


This.

Sorry man.


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## Chuckolat (Apr 23, 2014)

cajone5 said:


> dussbucs said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Congrats on passing both the PE and SE!
> ...


Congratulations! I went to Lehigh too.

I took and passed Vertical/Bridge (4/2012), Lateral/Bridge (10/2012) and Civil/Structural (4/2013)


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## NJ1 (Apr 23, 2014)

If you do not solve the problem, do you get credits (acceptable) for

- writing the steps of solution

- writing applicable code sections

- drawing a rough sketch (very rough due to lack of time) but with meaningful information.

that's my only hope to get some points on one question......


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 23, 2014)

My understanding was you could not get "acceptable" for items that were not completed. You could only get partial credit for those. If the majority of the problem was solved then I suspect you could get an "acceptable" but only if sufficient work was done on the problem (and the remainder was outlined like you said NJ1). If you did not complete the majority of the problem then I doubt you can get an "acceptable" or even a needs "improvement".


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## HurryCA! (Apr 23, 2014)

*Background:*


BS, MS in Civil w/ structural focus (took every structural class offered at my school)
Bridge engineering focus w/ some buildings for 2.5 years
Seismic/wind for buildings and non-structural components focus in CA for past 2 years
Passed PE and CA seismic/surveying with no problem
Studied two full weekends leading up to exam plus probably 25-30 more hours after work or on planes during the 3 weeks leading up to the exam
Only practiced multiple choice problems from NCEES and PPI practice exams (no afternoon problems) and tabbed the heck out of the most important references
I spiral bound several of the references (ASCE 7, IBC structural portions, AASHTO broken into 5 pieces, practice exams) to make referencing during the exam easier
*Took Vertical and Lateral Buildings*
There were only two of us taking the SE. I think I intimidated some of the PEs on Friday with my three milk crates full of books. Saturday was just the two SE takers and two proctors, so I feel like I at least got my money's worth.

*AM Gravity*
Felt great after this. Only had to guess on one problem. Finished with about 5 minutes left and just made sure my circled answers matched my bubbled answers.

*PM Gravity*
Harder than expected, but still felt pretty good about it. I finished with about 5 minutes left and fully answered every part of every question. The first problem took 1.5 hrs which made me panic a bit, but I was able to make that up with the other 3 problems.

*AM Lateral*
Felt great after this. No guesses. Finished with 10 minutes or so left.

*PM Lateral*
Felt pretty good about this. Fully answered every part of every question. Finished with about 15 minutes left and then called it good and closed my eyes for the remaining time. Felt great to be done.

Overall, I feel pretty confident about the exam, but you never know. If the test was only based on the multiple choice portion, I would say I passed for sure. However, it's hard to tell exactly what the afternoon graders will be looking for. I feel like my bridge experience really helped during the morning exams. I think lateral was easier than vertical, but that's mainly because I do seismic and wind calcs all day long.

Best of luck to all!


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## HurryCA! (Apr 24, 2014)

I also want to add that this was a very very difficult test. Although I felt I had enough time, it was just barely enough. It was an all out sprint (what kind of sprint lasts 16 hours?). The exam was much more intense than I even imagined. It was an exhausting 16 hours, and I am very glad to be done.

I should have practiced PM problems to develop my strategy for where I was going to put code references, what size margins to use, etc. I wasted a lot of time on the first PM problem just developing my standard way of answering the questions. I think if you went in with a plan for all of the stupid little things that have nothing to do with the actual engineering, you could save at least 20 minutes.


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## Agostage (Apr 24, 2014)

You studied for 3 weeks for both portions and felt good about it, I can't talk to you.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 24, 2014)

Agostage said:


> You studied for 3 weeks for both portions and felt good about it, I can't talk to you.




THIS! If you pass you must tell us your secret.


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## Andy Lin (Apr 24, 2014)

NJ1 said:


> If you do not solve the problem, do you get credits (acceptable) for
> 
> - writing the steps of solution
> 
> ...




I would say "Yes" to these!

I passed my SE last October - a couple of the questions I was sure I wouldn't have enough time to calc out everything so I ended up doing exactly what you described: writing out all of the equations/references/my next steps/sketches...etc. Worked out fine.

Good luck!


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 24, 2014)

SEHQ said:


> NJ1 said:
> 
> 
> > If you do not solve the problem, do you get credits (acceptable) for
> ...




Very, very interesting. About how much of the problem do you estimate that you completed?


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## cajone5 (Apr 24, 2014)

HurryCA! said:


> I also want to add that this was a very very difficult test. Although I felt I had enough time, it was just barely enough. It was an all out sprint (what kind of sprint lasts 16 hours?). The exam was much more intense than I even imagined. It was an exhausting 16 hours, and I am very glad to be done.
> 
> I should have practiced PM problems to develop my strategy for where I was going to put code references, what size margins to use, etc. I wasted a lot of time on the first PM problem just developing my standard way of answering the questions. I think if you went in with a plan for all of the stupid little things that have nothing to do with the actual engineering, you could save at least 20 minutes.




Sounds like you did well -- hopefully you passed.

My work experience is entirely outside of "standard" structural engineering (blast, impact, fire, etc.) so I had to study by butt off to pass the SE. But I can see how, if you do this every day, you could get by with the amount of studying you did. Good for you for being good at your job and confident enough to do both in one sitting. I did that too but failed half  Here's hoping you are completely done!


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## Andy Lin (Apr 24, 2014)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> SEHQ said:
> 
> 
> > NJ1 said:
> ...




I would say that I had enough in there that someone could just plug-in the numbers and calc out the solution in 15 minutes or so without much thinking.

Is that making sense...


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## TehMightyEngineer (Apr 24, 2014)

Yep makes sense. I hope that's good enough for one of the problem on buildings lateral for me.


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## HurryCA! (Apr 25, 2014)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Agostage said:
> 
> 
> > You studied for 3 weeks for both portions and felt good about it, I can't talk to you.
> ...


We'll see if this worked, but the following was my strategy:

TEST

-For the test, my main strategy/mindset was that it's more important to be able to find the answer than know the answer (knowing is just a quick bonus). Even if I knew the answer 100%, I would still look it up just in case.

-Bring more books than necessary. Bring EVERY required reference. This seems like a given, but I bet there are one or two from the NCEES list that are typically left behind. There was a very easy morning problem if you had one of the obscure required books, but you had to have the book to get the answer. I had three milk crates stacked like a bookshelf with ~30 books. I used 100% of the top shelf, 75% of the middle shelf, and 20% of the bottom.

STUDYING

-Spend time going through each required reference and tab everything that seemed important. The tabs needed to be organized neatly so every tab was visible (write small, cut the tabs small).

-Do practice exams in 2-hr (20 problem) blocks. Write quick notes during the block about things that need to be tabbed or researched. At the end of each block, go through EVERY answer and make notes for anything that should be tabbed or referenced. Repeat. Then do research and tab whatever was in the notes.

-Read through afternoon problems and solutions to see methodology, amount of writing, etc. If I have to do it over again, I will practice these more.

The overall strategy was to familiarize myself with important parts of each reference, then rely on my background and skills to apply the code sections in the exam. I spent more time preparing than studying: tabbing, printing/copying and spiral binding large references into manageable books, getting my milk crate setup so books would stay upright, seeing what kinds of questions NCEES might actually ask. It was also very beneficial to practice in a timed, test-like setting with my book setup, old NCEES pencil (for fun) and quiet room.


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## hylton (May 9, 2014)

I did my best but still not sure if would crack out this time.


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## usayoung (Jun 24, 2014)

FYI, I passed the exam. I suffered so much due to someone's previous comments here. Do not listen to someone here do not know about it.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jun 24, 2014)

Hey now, that's either me, CRNewsom, or cajone5 you're talking about and that's entirely not fair. I'm certainly glad you passed but with what you described above I'm honestly shocked you passed. You stated you figured you got at least 26/40 on the AM and only completed 1 of the 3 afternoon bridge problems, one of the incomplete problems being the longer problem. Even if you were given some credit for the incomplete answer it seems hard to believe that you got sufficient scores to pass. So, either you overstated how incomplete your problems were or you nailed the quick work you did in the time that you had.

Either way; congratulations, but don't complain that we gave you an honest answer and definitely don't think that coming back here and saying "do not listen to someone here" is going to win you any friends. I got 31/40 for multiple choice and 2 acceptable / 1 improvement required / 1 unacceptable for afternoon in buildings and didn't pass. That's why we said you probably wont pass because based on many people failing scores you weren't even close.


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## dussbucs (Jun 24, 2014)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Hey now, that's either me, CRNewsom, or cajone5 you're talking about and that's entirely not fair. I'm certainly glad you passed but with what you described above I'm honestly shocked you passed. You stated you figured you got at least 26/40 on the AM and only completed 1 of the 3 afternoon bridge problems, one of the incomplete problems being the longer problem. Even if you were given some credit for the incomplete answer it seems hard to believe that you got sufficient scores to pass. So, either you overstated how incomplete your problems were or you nailed the quick work you did in the time that you had.
> 
> Either way; congratulations, but don't complain that we gave you an honest answer and definitely don't think that coming back here and saying "do not listen to someone here" is going to win you any friends. I got 31/40 for multiple choice and 2 acceptable / 1 improvement required / 1 unacceptable for afternoon in buildings and didn't pass. That's why we said you probably wont pass because based on many people failing scores you weren't even close.


Seriously. Don't come on this board and complain when you passed. There are some of us who have taken this exam multiple times.


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## cajone5 (Jun 26, 2014)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Either way; congratulations, but don't complain that we gave you an honest answer and definitely don't think that coming back here and saying "do not listen to someone here" is going to win you any friends. I got 31/40 for multiple choice and 2 acceptable / 1 improvement required / 1 unacceptable for afternoon in buildings and didn't pass. That's why we said you probably wont pass because based on many people failing scores you weren't even close.


Ditto. Quoted for truth.

Just had a co-worker fail (3rd time) with 32/40 in the morning and 2 acceptable, 1 needs improvement and 1 unacceptable. As TME said, you're lucky as heck or drastically underestimated your efforts. That or the bridge exam is graded on a _very_ different scale than the buildings one. Which from my experience on this board is not the case.


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