# NCEES upcoming new Bachelor plus 30 rule for PE licensure



## zorlev (Aug 21, 2008)

Has any on had a read of this link from NCEES check it out at

http://www.ncees.org/news/index.php?release_id=37

It seems there will more difficulties for prospective PE takers.


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## IlPadrino (Aug 22, 2008)

zorlev said:


> Has any on had a read of this link from NCEES check it out at
> http://www.ncees.org/news/index.php?release_id=37
> 
> It seems there will more difficulties for prospective PE takers.


2020 is a *LONG* way away.


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## mech engineer (Aug 22, 2008)

zorlev said:


> Has any on had a read of this link from NCEES check it out at
> http://www.ncees.org/news/index.php?release_id=37
> 
> It seems there will more difficulties for prospective PE takers.


Well, these 'news' have been around for a couple of years now... The best way not to worry about them is to have an M.S. degree - it makes you feel quite comfortable, since nothing threatens your PE status now or in the future... I've got my Masters and have no worries for life to come. Do the same - M.S. is quite interesting (most of the time) and quick (1-2 years). The flip side of it is the cost, though.


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## Dexman1349 (Aug 22, 2008)

That only applies to people getting their PE's after it's in place (2020, but I've heard some states -Nebraska- are talking about doing it earlier). If you have your PE prior to this implementation, you won't have anything to worry about.

I'm not sure what this means for people who apply for comity if they have a PE from before the restrictions into states after this is in place.


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## mech engineer (Aug 22, 2008)

Dexman1349 said:


> That only applies to people getting their PE's after it's in place (2020, but I've heard some states -Nebraska- are talking about doing it earlier). If you have your PE prior to this implementation, you won't have anything to worry about.
> I'm not sure what this means for people who apply for comity if they have a PE from before the restrictions into states after this is in place.


That is exactly the point! If one of the states introduces MS as a mandatory rule, than the only way to apply for a comity is to comply with it. Otherwise being perfectly licensed in one state one may end up banned in other states where the 'MS rule' is in place. To get licensed in all 50 states ahead of year 2020 of course is an option, but quite costly... That's why I believe a graduate school is reasonable for the sake of keeping yourself up-to-date with all regulations. And plus - well, they teach useful stuff up there that looks good on the resume.


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## squishles10 (Aug 23, 2008)

This discussion has been flying around California too. I think a Masters is necessary anymore. I do wish there was more of a land development focused MS but oh well. Since by the tie you get your PE everyone is in management anyway, maybe it doesn't matter.


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## csb (Aug 26, 2008)

http://wwweng.uwyo.edu/news/080825/index2.html

Here's the latest President Elect...who also happened to be my Mechanics of Materials Professor. He's been on the Wyoming Board for years and I imagine he's the reason behind the need to take 12 credit hours if you fail to pass the exam in three tries (Wyoming only).


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## bigtrees (Aug 26, 2008)

csb said:


> http://wwweng.uwyo.edu/news/080825/index2.html
> Here's the latest President Elect...who also happened to be my Mechanics of Materials Professor. He's been on the Wyoming Board for years and I imagine he's the reason behind the need to take 12 credit hours if you fail to pass the exam in three tries (Wyoming only).


I think the Bachelor + 30 sounds great.


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## Dexman1349 (Aug 26, 2008)

http://www.ncees.org/news/index.php?release_id=37

This was posted on the NCEES website on the 21st. Looks like the bachelor's + 30 or the "masters or equivalent" program is still being refined.


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## GT ME (Aug 28, 2008)

Any state that would allow people without an accredited BS degree take a PE exam is plain ignorant -- adding 30 credits isn't fair either.

I quess morons that can't graduate from an accredited school should go to a moron state to get a PE.


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## rktatum24 (Aug 29, 2008)

Like most other rule changes in the world, I do not think that this will be a retroactive requirement (Meaning if you are already licensed before the rule is in effect, you are good). I think this will be for new applicants only. It would be pretty hard from an administrative standpoint to require engineers who have been licensed for 10+ years to comply with this 30 hours rule. First you have to make it law (i.e. if they have not complied by x date they can not legally practice). Then you have to verify that everyone has complied with the rule. This will be for new applicants only and what you will see is many engineering schools creating 5-year programs where you complete you BS and MS in 5 years in the same program. Some schools already have these programs, but this rule will make that system more common place since a BS only will become pretty much worthless.


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## GT ME (Sep 4, 2008)

It's ironic in that you currently have people (some that even post here) that don't even have a degree obtaining PEs -- lol


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## UTKSPARKHEAD (Sep 5, 2008)

They need to make up their d&amp;&amp;n mind. They just recently change the rules to let individuals with a four year associates degree set for the exam. I have a novel idea why don't they have engineers submit examples of their work and see if they are really doing engineering work. We have PE's in our company that can't pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom but they must be good test takers.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 7, 2009)

bump for badal


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 7, 2009)

What I want to know is this.

In my experience every PE we have can solve all the complicated book problems you could want. Where the most PE's seem to be lacking is in communication skills and hands on experience.

So why are we adding more "book learnin'"? Is is just a move to raise the profile of engineers? Make them more similar to lawyers etc?


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## chaocl (Jul 7, 2009)

Question........

If someone has no degree in engineering but they went to engineer field for long years. They already approve to taking the FE and PE exam for now. If they fail the PE fron now until year 2020. (Can they still taking PE exam? Or they have to give up until they got degree?)


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## snickerd3 (Jul 7, 2009)

probably will depend on the state. In IL your app is good for 3 yrs, basically 6 test sittings. So once it gets to be 2018, 2019, then the question would really come into play.


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## Supe (Jul 7, 2009)

GT ME said:


> It's ironic in that you currently have people (some that even post here) that don't even have a degree obtaining PEs -- lol



What do you honestly think can be learned in 4 years of college that can't be learned from 20-30 years of field experience solving the same problems, using the same applicable equations, etc?

What's ironic is that you're referring to states as being "ignorant" in what just may be one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on here in a while.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 7, 2009)

Supe said:


> What's ironic is that you're referring to states as being "ignorant" in what just may be one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on here in a while.


Why "ignorant"? If someone believes education is a prerequisite for licensure, I don't see why that makes them ignorant. The problem with experience is that it's easy to fabricate.

The three Es (education, experience, and examination) seem like the best formula for ANY professional licensure.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 7, 2009)

snickerd3 said:


> probably will depend on the state. In IL your app is good for 3 yrs, basically 6 test sittings. So once it gets to be 2018, 2019, then the question would really come into play.


Yup... who knows how each state will implement the model rules (if they even decide to do so). No state has to follow the model.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 7, 2009)

More education is a general trend....

ASCE is promoting a "Body of Knowledge" proposal...

This is a decent quick overview - or follow links in the article for more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Enginee...dy_of_Knowledge


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 7, 2009)

A companion push by ASCE is "encouraging" professors to become licensed PE's -- an idea I like. I'm always amazed how few are.


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## rktatum24 (Jul 7, 2009)

Have they specified what type of Masters degree you have to obtain?

Will they count an MBA or a MS in Physics or Geology? Many engineers obtain Masters degrees in other fields that may be more specific to their work. How will they handle these situations? Surely they wouldn't require someone with a MS in Geology and a BS in Civil Engineering obtain another degree.


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## Supe (Jul 7, 2009)

IlPadrino said:


> Why "ignorant"? If someone believes education is a prerequisite for licensure, I don't see why that makes them ignorant. The problem with experience is that it's easy to fabricate.
> The three Es (education, experience, and examination) seem like the best formula for ANY professional licensure.


The belief in education is one thing, the assumption that those who took alternative approaches to get their PE are "morons" is laughable, especially since those "morons" passed the same exam.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 8, 2009)

Supe said:


> The belief in education is one thing, the assumption that those who took alternative approaches to get their PE are "morons" is laughable, especially since those "morons" passed the same exam.


Sorry... I must have missed the titling of "morons". I thought the irony was the model law was going to require BS+30 while there are still licensed engineers today that don't even have the BS.


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## chaocl (Jul 8, 2009)

Bachelor + 30 "hours" , 30 "days" , 30 "months" or 30 "years"?????


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## IlPadrino (Jul 9, 2009)

chaocl said:


> Bachelor + 30 "hours" , 30 "days" , 30 "months" or 30 "years"?????


credits


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 9, 2009)

> If someone has no degree in engineering but they went to engineer field for long years. They already approve to taking the FE and PE exam for now. If they fail the PE fron now until year 2020. (Can they still taking PE exam? Or they have to give up until they got degree?)


If someone fails the PE each time between now and the year 2020, perhaps it's time for a career change...


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## chaocl (Jul 9, 2009)

IlPadrino said:


> credits


I know it is 30 credits (shown in the NCEEs article).....but my question is that 30 credits equal to how many time they need from engineering work?


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