# Sample Test vs Real Test



## sam314159

I've been studying for the April 2011 Power PE exam for the last three weeks now, about 80 hours total, and now I am starting to go through the NCEES sample exam.

I'm finding a lot of the NCEES problems pretty straight-forward and even a little basic at times, which is making me worry a little that they might not be a good representation of what's on the actual test.

I don't expect the problems to be identical by any means, but would you say that the verbiage, concepts and depth of the sample exam is close to the real thing? This is my first time around so I have no idea what to expect except for what I see on the sample test.

Study Plan

1. Review my notes from grad level power classes (Power Systems 1, Power Systems 2, Protective Relaying, Electric Machinery) (Done)

2. Work NCEES Sample Test for the first time.

3. Review Camara's power reference book.

4. Read/Tab Ugly's book. Tab 2008 NEC code book.

5. Work PPI practice problems. (About 500 problems)

6. Work PPI sample exam. (80 Problems)

7. Work NCEES sample test again. (Timed)


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## benbo

sam314159 said:


> I'm finding a lot of the NCEES problems pretty straight-forward and even a little basic at times, which is making me worry a little that they might not be a good representation of what's on the actual test.
> I don't expect the problems to be identical by any means, but would you say that the verbiage, concepts and depth of the sample exam is close to the real thing? This is my first time around so I have no idea what to expect except for what I see on the sample test.


The NCEES test is very representative of the actual test IMO. I though the actual test was a little more difficult but not exceedingly so.


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## CincinnatiControlsGuy

I actually thought that the NCEES sample exam was more difficult, but I took the EC&amp;C module and not power. If you feel confident with the sample exam then you'll be fine on the real exam. Your study plan is sound as well. The only other thing that I can suggest is booking a hotel within walking distance the night before. The peace of mind that you won't oversleep (wake-up call), get pulled over, or have your car break down is SO worth it.


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## cableguy

I worked the NCEES exam at least 6 times, maybe 8. Something like that. Night before the exam, I zipped through all 80 questions in about 2 hours.

Yes, they are very representative of what's on the exam. Yes, a lot of the exam questions I found to be basic.

Skip any non-NCEES sample problems that deal with op-amps, resistors, transistors, amplifier type circuits, etc. Don't waste your time. A number of the Camara problems I found to be not worth my time. If it's not within the Electrical Power scope, don't bother with it.

Don't forget to brush up on economics. There were more than 6 econ questions on the Electrical Power exam in October. Basic stuff, but if you ignore it, it could come back to bite you.

Know your NEC, especially motor tables, chapter 9 table 9, voltage drop, etc.

There was NO "advanced math" on the exam. I didn't use any calculus at all. Keep in mind, this exam is about rapid fire, how quickly can you recognize what they're asking for and get the answer... If it takes you more than 5 lines to work out a problem on the NCEES sample exam (or the PE exam), you're working it wrong.

Start your formula sheet NOW. I can't emphasize how important my formula workbook was to me (a compilation of sheets). I hardly used my other references. I also spent a lot of time digging in deep in to motors, all the crazy little losses... that was too deep for this exam. This exam to me was rather superficial. But you have to work fast. I finished the PE morning in 2 hrs, PE afternoon in 2 1/2. Scored a 93.


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## sam314159

@ Groesbeck: I really like the hotel idea. There is actually one within walking distance from the test center in and I was thinking of getting a room there to avoid having to deal with parking in the morning since the test is on a Friday.

@ Cableguy: Thanks so much for the detailed post! That information will definitely come in handy while I am preparing. I am planning on reviewing all my FE economics notes to freshen up for econ problems. I really like the formula sheet idea and I already started mine. I am still worried about the proctor having an issue with hand-written notes instead of "printed" notes which is what's specified on the NCEES specifications. I sent them an email but I got no reply.

Thanks again guys.


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## cableguy

The only state that has a real problem with things is Illinois. As long as you don't live there, you should be OK for handwritten notes. Just make sure to write them in pen. No pencil notes. I had a multi-page formula book that I made (my work has a binding machine), all handwritten notes in pen. Big diagrams with phase rotations (for abc and cba), delta-wye conversions, per unit conversions, etc.


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## papa j

cableguy said:


> The only state that has a real problem with things is Illinois. As long as you don't live there, you should be OK for handwritten notes. Just make sure to write them in pen. No pencil notes. I had a multi-page formula book that I made (my work has a binding machine), all handwritten notes in pen. Big diagrams with phase rotations (for abc and cba), delta-wye conversions, per unit conversions, etc.


I hadn't realized that the formula sheet should be in ink. Is that a requirement or just a precaution?

Binding machine makes sense, though. It'll be nice as a future reference. Right now I'm using a 4" binder with dividers. First 1-3 pages in each section are formulas/rules of thumb and following that are interesting articles, notes I've found/written, or procedures (for short circuit calcs, arc flash, etc.).


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## cableguy

NCEES doesn't want you copying any bit of the exam, so the fewer notes you have in pencil within your possession, the less likely an ambitious proctor will take a second glance at you.

Not all proctors handle things the same way; there was one proctor in Ft Worth in October making everyone in his area shake out their books, looking for loose paper. None of the other proctors were doing that. We ended up waiting for several minutes for him to finish with his area. Who knows, maybe a proctor may look at several pages of penciled formulas a little funny...

Odds are you'd be OK, as I've heard some people say "no big deal" to pencil notes in books. I decided not to take any chances, and did all of my studying (including working problems, notes, etc) in blue pen.


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## snickerd3

papa j said:


> cableguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only state that has a real problem with things is Illinois. As long as you don't live there, you should be OK for handwritten notes. Just make sure to write them in pen. No pencil notes. I had a multi-page formula book that I made (my work has a binding machine), all handwritten notes in pen. Big diagrams with phase rotations (for abc and cba), delta-wye conversions, per unit conversions, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't realized that the formula sheet should be in ink. Is that a requirement or just a precaution?
> 
> Binding machine makes sense, though. It'll be nice as a future reference. Right now I'm using a 4" binder with dividers. First 1-3 pages in each section are formulas/rules of thumb and following that are interesting articles, notes I've found/written, or procedures (for short circuit calcs, arc flash, etc.).
Click to expand...

if you are making handmade notes in pencil, instead of inking over, you can make photocopies of them then they will be inked.


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## Empirepool

cableguy said:


> I worked the NCEES exam at least 6 times, maybe 8. Something like that. Night before the exam, I zipped through all 80 questions in about 2 hours.
> Yes, they are very representative of what's on the exam. Yes, a lot of the exam questions I found to be basic.
> 
> Skip any non-NCEES sample problems that deal with op-amps, resistors, transistors, amplifier type circuits, etc. Don't waste your time. A number of the Camara problems I found to be not worth my time. If it's not within the Electrical Power scope, don't bother with it.
> 
> Don't forget to brush up on economics. There were more than 6 econ questions on the Electrical Power exam in October. Basic stuff, but if you ignore it, it could come back to bite you.
> 
> Know your NEC, especially motor tables, chapter 9 table 9, voltage drop, etc.
> 
> There was NO "advanced math" on the exam. I didn't use any calculus at all. Keep in mind, this exam is about rapid fire, how quickly can you recognize what they're asking for and get the answer... If it takes you more than 5 lines to work out a problem on the NCEES sample exam (or the PE exam), you're working it wrong.
> 
> Start your formula sheet NOW. I can't emphasize how important my formula workbook was to me (a compilation of sheets). I hardly used my other references. I also spent a lot of time digging in deep in to motors, all the crazy little losses... that was too deep for this exam. This exam to me was rather superficial. But you have to work fast. I finished the PE morning in 2 hrs, PE afternoon in 2 1/2. Scored a 93.


Does anyone know if economic questions are on all 3 Electrical Engineering test (Power, Electrical &amp; Electronics, and Computer)? I am signed up to take the E&amp;E test in April. I have been told by others who have taken the E&amp;E that there are no econ questions. Just trying to make sure i am getting accurate info.

Thanks,


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## wilheldp_PE

Engineering Econ and ethics questions are on every version of every exam.


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## mot14

cableguy said:


> I worked the NCEES exam at least 6 times, maybe 8. Something like that. Night before the exam, I zipped through all 80 questions in about 2 hours.
> Yes, they are very representative of what's on the exam. Yes, a lot of the exam questions I found to be basic.
> 
> Skip any non-NCEES sample problems that deal with op-amps, resistors, transistors, amplifier type circuits, etc. Don't waste your time. A number of the Camara problems I found to be not worth my time. If it's not within the Electrical Power scope, don't bother with it.
> 
> Don't forget to brush up on economics. There were more than 6 econ questions on the Electrical Power exam in October. Basic stuff, but if you ignore it, it could come back to bite you.
> 
> Know your NEC, especially motor tables, chapter 9 table 9, voltage drop, etc.
> 
> There was NO "advanced math" on the exam. I didn't use any calculus at all. Keep in mind, this exam is about rapid fire, how quickly can you recognize what they're asking for and get the answer... If it takes you more than 5 lines to work out a problem on the NCEES sample exam (or the PE exam), you're working it wrong.
> 
> Start your formula sheet NOW. I can't emphasize how important my formula workbook was to me (a compilation of sheets). I hardly used my other references. I also spent a lot of time digging in deep in to motors, all the crazy little losses... that was too deep for this exam. This exam to me was rather superficial. But you have to work fast. I finished the PE morning in 2 hrs, PE afternoon in 2 1/2. Scored a 93.


Wow - great info - wish someone would do the same for mechanical.....


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## cdcengineer

In Colorado 3-ring binders were acceptable in April 2010. we could also have pencil notes, which surprised me. You just can't write in your references.

Good Luck


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## Mike in Gastonia

wilheldp_PE said:


> Engineering Econ and ethics questions are on every version of every exam.


Not sure if you are saying this tongue in cheek or not......

Looking at the electrical specifications on the ncees site, engineering economics only shows up on the power exam and none of the three exams have ethics listed on their specification.


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## RIP - VTEnviro

So you're saying if you have no ethics and want to be an engineer, it's time to brush up on capacitor design and Ohm's law?


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## Mike in Gastonia

VTEnviro said:


> So you're saying if you have no ethics and want to be an engineer, it's time to brush up on capacitor design and Ohm's law?


I guess if you think about it what's the point of having ethics questions on there? Everyone would be able to get them right so it doesn't help separate the chaff from the wheat. Even if they don't have ethics, they know what the right answer _should_ be.


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## wilheldp_PE

Mike in Gastonia said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Engineering Econ and ethics questions are on every version of every exam.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are saying this tongue in cheek or not......
> 
> Looking at the electrical specifications on the ncees site, engineering economics only shows up on the power exam and none of the three exams have ethics listed on their specification.
Click to expand...

I guess I should qualify my statement by saying that I took the exam in 2008 and have not looked at the requirements since then, but at the time I was studying, economics and ethics were listed on EVERY exam. If they have removed those questions from some of the exams, then you guys are missing out. They are free points with minimal study effort. I also think that the econ questions are the most universally useful problems for engineers. No matter what your field, once you progress in your career, you will eventually be concerned about money (budget, amortization, depreciation, etc.). It would surprise me if NCEES had selectively removed those problems from certain exams.


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