# Why the hate for Walmart?



## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

Over the past several years, I've noticed increasing ratcheting up in anti-Walmart rhetoric. For the life of me, I can't understand why.

And it has moved on to haterd of all big box retailers, but Walmart gets the brunt of it.

Granted, I hit Kmart a lot more because it is closer and more convenient since the Walmart moved, but I've gotten good service from goods purchased from the big box stores. Heck, my TV (a Kmart purchase) will be 20 years old next year. TVs never lasted that long when I was a kid.

So what's the deal? I'll pay extra for something if it provides more utility for me, but, in my experience, it has been awfully hard to beat the prices/utility I've gotten from big box goods.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

I think the wage issue is asinine. Working at Wal-Mart is a minimum wage, completely un-skilled job. It's not a career that should be the sole source of income for a family of 4. People have the same complaints about McDonald's. Wal-Mart employs 1.4 million Americans that probably wouldn't have jobs otherwise...and they almost certainly wouldn't have jobs that paid more or had better benefits.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 26, 2011)

I rant about walmart because of food quality and general selection of anything. At least by us, the produce and meat is second rate and more often than not, when something is on Sale it is because it is slightly off spec but still sellable so the manufacturer give walmart a great deal on the lot.

THey also don't have a wide selection on things. Its usually walmart brand and one other. There are things I will not buy generic off, I have in the past and know I don't like it.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 26, 2011)

As far as walmart and employee relations, one of the ladies here at work her daughter works at walmart and when she had her baby last year she had to go back to work as soon as she got cleared from the dr and she couldn't pump at work so ended up having to use formula after a few months.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> I rant about walmart because of food quality and general selection of anything. At least by us, the produce and meat is second rate and more often than not, when something is on Sale it is because it is slightly off spec but still sellable so the manufacturer give walmart a great deal on the lot.THey also don't have a wide selection on things. Its usually walmart brand and one other. There are things I will not buy generic off, I have in the past and know I don't like it.


The closest grocery store to my house is a Walmart Neighborhood Market. They usually have a pretty good selection...at least one that rivals the Krogers in the area. I don't really like their meat department because everything is pre-packaged and there is no meat counter to get something cut to order. Their produce is also usually a bit older (not-as-fresh) as other grocery stores.


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## cableguy (Apr 26, 2011)

I specifically try to avoid crowds and morons. Seems that WalMart is usually a source of both. I do go to Wal Mart occasionally (once every 6 months or so), but try to make it during a weird hour so I'm not exposed to as many idiots.

Around my house, we have the following saying: A man will pay $2 for a $1 thing that he needs, while a woman will pay $1 for a $2 thing she doesn't need. It doesn't get any truer than that at my house. My wife buys stuff just because it's on sale... and I don't buy anything unless I decide I need it.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

cableguy said:


> but try to make it during a weird hour so I'm not exposed to as many idiots.


The "weird hours" are usually when the super-crazy people are there. I was behind one lady at the checkout at about 2 am one night. She was buying about 40 cans of cat food and a box of crackers.


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## Master slacker (Apr 26, 2011)

My issue with Wal-Mart is the way the business started vs. how it is operated now. Even I can remember going into WM and seeing so many things (not everything) "Made in USA ". This was way before Super WM or Neighborhood WM. Just freakin' WM. Then, when they started to boom and boom and boom, everything turned into "Made in China". It's not about supporting American businesses anymore. It's about being THE one stop shop in any town by pandering to the lowest common denominator with cheaply made foreign crap.

/rant


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> THey also don't have a wide selection on things. Its usually walmart brand and one other. There are things I will not buy generic off, I have in the past and know I don't like it.


I usually don't hit their grocery store unless I'm already there for something else, just because there are more convenient grocery stores with virtually the same prices. But for selection, I'd say Wally World is on par or better in the selection.

But I hate their meat department and won't buy anything from them.


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## Master slacker (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> But I hate their meat department and won't buy anything from them.


The one thing I can attest to liking in Wally's world is the meat at Sam's. Fantastic selection and price. The one in town has their own butchering room. Moo in, yum out.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

Master slacker said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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> > But I hate their meat department and won't buy anything from them.
> ...


I went through two rounds of bad meat from Wally World, so, never again.


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## Flyer_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

There's a world of difference between the meat department at Walmart and the one in the Sam's Club right next door. We'll buy meat from Sam's every once in a while but almost never from Walmart.


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## udpolo15 (Apr 26, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> As far as walmart and employee relations, one of the ladies here at work her daughter works at walmart and when she had her baby last year she had to go back to work as soon as she got cleared from the dr and she couldn't pump at work so ended up having to use formula after a few months.


isn't that illegal? Don't they have to make reasonable accommodations?


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## willsee (Apr 26, 2011)

Saw this article on my Google Reader yesterday about Wal-Mart wages

Should Wal-Mart pay employees $12 an hour


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## snickerd3 (Apr 26, 2011)

it supposed to be. but it was apparently made very clear they weren't onboard with the concept and when she did use her lunch period she had to use a stall in the bathroom used by the public...gross


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

I do have to admit that on two occasions I have abandoned a fully loaded shopping cart and left because they had long lines at the checkouts, and plenty of unused registers. THAT really chaps my hide.


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## jmbeck (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Over the past several years, I've noticed increasing ratcheting up in anti-Walmart rhetoric. For the life of me, I can't understand why.
> And it has moved on to haterd of all big box retailers, but Walmart gets the brunt of it.
> 
> Granted, I hit Kmart a lot more because it is closer and more convenient since the Walmart moved, but I've gotten good service from goods purchased from the big box stores. Heck, my TV (a Kmart purchase) will be 20 years old next year. TVs never lasted that long when I was a kid.
> ...


I thought I was the last Wal-Mart fan left. In my small town, we have a SuperCenter. It's rarely crowded, and the staff is very helpful and friendly.

I'm anti-Target, and it's simply because of the return policy. Wal-Mart will take anything back, and worst case give you a gift card. We registered at Target, and the things that were on our registry would only get a gift card in the department it was purchased in. Things with gift receipts would not get cash back, only a gift card.

My preference is locally owned businesses. But, if I'm shopping big-box store, it's Wal-Mart. Well, Wal-Mart minus fruit, vegetables, and meat.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

I have been shopping there more often lately (i also try and skip there meat dept)

But Publix and Kroger have serioulsy crazy prices, its like from 4 years ago when gas was $5 the last time they never lowered their prices back, greedy fuckers!

we had a backpacing trip with my sons scout troop, and they actually have a decent backpacking section in the camping area. the same bag (same brand) of freeze dried food thats $9 bucks at REI was $4.50 at Wal-Mart.. its a no brainer... A lot of there smaller accessories were similar, small backapcking stove (same model) $65 @ REI $28 at Wal Mart.. unreal...


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll buy name brand stuff there sometimes. If it's the same make and model that other places are selling then why not save money if Wal-mart has it for less. But then I find if I'm looking for a particular make or model of something I can find it cheaper online.

I will not buy any of there non-name brand stuff. I've found it to be mostly junk.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> we had a backpacing trip with my sons scout troop, and they actually have a decent backpacking section in the camping area. the same bag (same brand) of freeze dried food thats $9 bucks at REI was $4.50 at Wal-Mart.. its a no brainer... A lot of there smaller accessories were similar, small backapcking stove (same model) $65 @ REI $28 at Wal Mart.. unreal...


I noticed the camping section was pretty good, too! I'm still thinking of that Coleman dual fuel stove for 79 bucks. propane version was 28 or something.

As for produce, I hit the local farmer's market. Tomatoes were 3.99/lb at Walmart and 1.49/lb at the FM.


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## MGX (Apr 26, 2011)

Wal Mart is mostly a human zoo from my experience. That's reason enough to avoid it. Also, I don't mind spending a few extra bucks for Made in the USA stuff which is next to impossible to find at Wally World.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

ngnrd said:


> I don't like bullies. Walmart is a bully.


Really? They beat you up and took your lunch money, did they? Say hurtful things on Facebook about you?

This is the attitude I don't get.


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

I hate all the Made in China crap.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> I hate all the Made in China crap.


Why?

I've heard that before, but why? And do you feel the same about, say, German goods? Why specifically Chinese products?

I'm not picking, I'm seriously curious.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

they sell the same made in china stuff that Target, Dicks, Costco, REI, Overton's, Ace Hardware, Sears, etc all sell...???

I dont really care for wal-mart in general, but these days groceries are getting ridiculous...


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> I dont really care for wal-mart in general, but these days groceries are getting ridiculous...


You have to be careful with the groceries. I've found numerous instances where the BiLo or Reid's was the same or lower price.

I do get paperbacks from Kmart or Walmart because you get 25% off.


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> they sell the same made in china stuff that Target, Dicks, *Costco, REI*, Overton's, Ace Hardware, Sears, etc all sell...???


I have to defend Costco and REI, both those companies stand behind what they sell. REI will let you return anything for any reason. Do you pay more for that? Yes, but sometimes it's worth it.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 26, 2011)

I just don't like it. Not really sure why. For the majority of my shopping, I will drive the extra 1/2 mile to the Super Target.


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> I just don't like it. Not really sure why. For the majority of my shopping, I will drive the extra 1/2 mile to the Super Target.


The main reason I don't shop at Wal-mart is because I feel their stores are always understaffed. It seems no matter what time of day I go, or which store I go to, I always spend 30 minutes in line waiting to check out. I hate that. As such, I typically shop elsewhere.

Does that mean I hate Wal-mart? No, I just prefer not to shop there.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 26, 2011)

About the only thing I buy at wal-mart is boat supplies. They have a pretty good section (in general, their outdoor sporting goods section is much better than Target, IMHO) and they have the same products I need (oil, etc) as West Marine, at half the price.

In general, we do our grocery shopping at Ingles. It's close, and we know where everything is. I'm sure we could save a few bucks buying certain things at walmart, but for us its a "what is your time worth to you" question. We have pretty much come to the conclusion that driving all over town to save a few bucks on groceries isn't worth it to us.


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## frazil (Apr 26, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> I'll buy name brand stuff there sometimes. If it's the same make and model that other places are selling then why not save money if Wal-mart has it for less. But then I find if I'm looking for a particular make or model of something I can find it cheaper online.
> I will not buy any of there non-name brand stuff. I've found it to be mostly junk.


I've heard that Walmart has contracts with some name brands to make a cheaper model for their store than what you can buy elsewhere. It looks exactly the same, and no where does it say its made especially for Walmart, but the materials and construction are cheaper. Anyone else heard this?

I'm not anti-Walmart, but my house is littered with cheap crap from there that breaks after a year. Things that used to last a long time (appliances, furniture, etc), are now disposable. It's hard to find well made stuff anywhere these days because good manufacturers have to compete to stay in business.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > they sell the same made in china stuff that Target, Dicks, *Costco, REI*, Overton's, Ace Hardware, Sears, etc all sell...???
> ...


So will Walmart. Never had a hassle with returns. In fact, its probablythe only place where I just put something on the counter, they scan it, and hand me cash, no questions asked.

Granted, I haven't done it all that much.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm a Stop &amp; Shop guy for my groceries, it's close and convenient, and the quality is generally good. I agree with RW, REI is a great store. You pay a little more for things, but the quality is a whole lot better than the KMart/WalMart/etc. outdoor clothing and gear department.

About the only thing I'll go to WalMart for is dog towels and blankets, things where I don't care about any sort of quality since they will get shredded anyway. Family Dollar works for that stuff too.

I don't give two hot turds about made in America. I just want the best price, wherever its made. Plus it's a global economy these days anyway.


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> I don't give two hot turds about made in America. I just want the best price, wherever its made. Plus it's a global economy these days anyway.


uke:


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> roadwreck said:
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> > Road Guy said:
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Wal-mart has a 90 day return policy. REI doesn't. REI will also let you return opened food items for reasons as simple as "I didn't like it".

Is wal-mart going to let you return that apple you took a bite out of just b/c you didn't like the taste?


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> momech said:
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> > I hate all the Made in China crap.
> ...


No, I don't feel the same about German goods. American stores are not flooded with inferior quality, heavy metal containing, garbage that's made in Germany.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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I wouldn't take back opened food, but that's just me.


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## Master slacker (Apr 26, 2011)

frazil said:


> I've heard that Walmart has contracts with some name brands to make a cheaper model for their store than what you can buy elsewhere. It looks exactly the same, and no where does it say its made especially for Walmart, but the materials and construction are cheaper. Anyone else heard this?


Yeah. It's true. Let's say Samsung wants WM to sell their line of TVs. For TV model PN50B123, Samsung's MSRP is $1000. WM says, "No thanks, unless we can sell it for $700." Samsung will begrudgingly agree because they want to sell more units. In order to keep profit margin, the components that make the TV will change - solder, wiring, hardware, etc... This PN50B123 "clone" will have a new model number - something like PN50BZ123.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 26, 2011)

I've always rather liked Wal*Mart. They're cheap, replaceable goods - which is frequently exactly what I need. I don't mind buying things 3 times as often when they cost a quarter the price. Yes, I know it's made in China garbage, but for my purposes that's fine.

Around here, my only other options are Fred Meyer's, Shopko, Target, or (maybe) Rite Aid. And none of those have the same variety, and they all tend to cost more in general - and have the same garbage, at that. And as a former Target employee married to another former Target employee, let me tell you that they treat their employees just as badly as Wal*Mart does. Plus, Target supports politicians [Tom Emmer] that support people that want me killed, and I don't agree with the "well he's good for business" excuse.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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> > momech said:
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Really?

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08380.html

I know its choking, not lead or anything, but bad quality is not endemic to a single country.


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## picusld (Apr 26, 2011)

Seems as if walmart is the place to go to beat your kids. Everytime I go, there always seems to be a kid getting beaten.

When my kid starts acting up, I tell him that is where we are going.

He is terrified of the place

--Rodney Carrington


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Really?
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08380.html
> 
> I know its choking, not lead or anything, but bad quality is not endemic to a single country.


Yes, really. Because you can find one German item that has been recalled in America, you think it's as bad as China? Really? You can also find recalled items that are made in USA .


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> roadwreck said:
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> > Capt Worley PE said:
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I ordinarily wouldn't. But the REI employees encourage you to. I was in there a couple of weeks ago picking up some nutritional supplements in preparation for my marathon. An employee came over to assist me, not only was he able to give me some guidance on what stuff he prefers to use when he runs marathons (how many Wal-mart employees could give you advice on that?) but he told me that if I didn't like whatever I picked out I could return it for a full refund. They want you to be happy with your purchase and the service at a place like that is head and shoulders about Wal-mart or Target. As a result you pay more. I don't think it's fair to compare a Wal-mart to an REI, they don't follow the same business model.


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

And I realize that Wal-Mart doesn't have the market cornered on this crap, it just is really prevalent there. I remember when Made In USA was part of Wal-Mart's marketing...no more.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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> 
> > Really?
> ...


And that's my point. People single out China, then when pressed as to why, say, 'recalled toys.' If you think of the sheer volume, Germany may very well have a higher _percentage_ of recalled toys. So may the USA . I don't know.

But for some reason, only China is called out. You have to wonder why. And I don't think it is racism.

Again, not picking on you, momech.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> I remember when Made In USA was part of Wal-Mart's marketing...no more.


Oh, I do, too, and I'm sure Sam Walton is spinnin' in his grave about that.

But the truth is, most people will not pay more money just because of a product's country of origin. I'm quite open that I won't.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

I wouldnt buy hiking boots or a backpack from wal mart (for backpacking) but for small accessories, there shouldnt be as big a mark up as the stores have. They cater to a small group and thats okay, Dicks is almost as bad, I am sure they have a very hefty markup on everything.

I like to go to the smaller sporting goods stuff for some of my coaching needs for softball but man you pay a premium to talk to someone who knows something about bats, that advice is generally worth it, but if your buying a bucket of 11" softballs, I dont really need someone to tell me anything about them...

Bass Pro Shops I guess is a big box store, but I wish they had one closer to us, they have excellent deals on anything boating related...


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> And that's my point. People single out China, then when pressed as to why, say, 'recalled toys.' If you think of the sheer volume, Germany may very well have a higher _percentage_ of recalled toys. So may the USA . I don't know.
> But for some reason, only China is called out. You have to wonder why. And I don't think it is racism.
> 
> Again, not picking on you, momech.


It's singled out because of the shear volume of it. And I'm not just talking about recalled toys. I'm talking about going to a store looking for something and all of the choices are garbage, and they're all made in China. Have you ever looked at the country of origin tags? The volume is really astonishing to me.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > And that's my point. People single out China, then when pressed as to why, say, 'recalled toys.' If you think of the sheer volume, Germany may very well have a higher _percentage_ of recalled toys. So may the USA . I don't know.
> ...


The only product that actually failed to meet my expectations, though, was made in Russia. I can't say as I would necessarily label all Chinese products as garbage.

I do shy away from Chinese hand tools. They tend to be pretty loose in their tolerances and round off easily.


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## momech (Apr 26, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> The only product that actually failed to meet my expectations, though, was made in Russia. I can't say as I would necessarily label all Chinese products as garbage.
> I do shy away from Chinese hand tools. They tend to be pretty loose in their tolerances and round off easily.


You've only purchased one product that failed to meet your expectations? Do you expect everything you buy to be disposable?


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > The only product that actually failed to meet my expectations, though, was made in Russia. I can't say as I would necessarily label all Chinese products as garbage.
> ...


Yep, only that one product (it was actually two failures guess...two pairs of shorts and the button popped off both of them the second time I wore them).

I've bought all kinds of stuff from Walmart and Kmart, and really not had problems. I don't hesitate to buy stuff there.

that's why I'm wondering about all the haterade directed to the big-box stores.

Then again, the same hate was directed at the department stores, then the five and dimes in their respective eras. To the malls, as well.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 26, 2011)

again other than the fact I would have to travel an hr to get to one, I never shopped at Kmarts because for some reason they all have the same smell that aggravates my allergies. Not sure if it is the food court/restaurant combo or their company wide cleaning supplies but every single kmart I have ever been in smells the same way.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Here's one reason I don't like to go:

www.peopleofwalmart.com


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## udpolo15 (Apr 26, 2011)

momech said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > And that's my point. People single out China, then when pressed as to why, say, 'recalled toys.' If you think of the sheer volume, Germany may very well have a higher _percentage_ of recalled toys. So may the USA . I don't know.
> ...



I don't think that is only because it is made in China. Brand name companies manufacture there because of low cost. They set the specifications, material, qa/qc. Certainly there are rogue manufacturers, but the brand name companies who strive the keep cost low (per the demand of the American consumer) should be the to take it out on, not China - they are only meeting a demand.


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## frazil (Apr 26, 2011)

It's not just children's toys. Don't you remember the milk problem, poisonous dog food, kids candy? here's an article that talks about some of it: Problem with chinese goods

no oversight on their manufacturing + an incessant demand for more = crap products

That's not really Walmart's problem, except that Walmart is a huge driving force in the market.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 26, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> Here's one reason I don't like to go:
> www.peopleofwalmart.com


I beg to differ, Dex. That is why I go.


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## picusld (Apr 27, 2011)

ngnrd said:



> Capt Worley PE said:
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> > ngnrd said:
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So using this logic and a free market, doesn't that mean the consumer wants a lower quality product?

Should Kia be forced to raise there prices and build a better car or is it up to them to charge what they want for their customer base.

(I have nothing against Kia)


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

frazil said:


> Don't you remember the milk problem, poisonous dog food, kids candy?


Didn't they execute the guy that was responsible for the milk episode?


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## Master slacker (Apr 27, 2011)

Yeah, China. Not WM. Well... it may have been China under the direction of WM, but we'll never know.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

ngnrd said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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Questions:

1) If the consumer buys these items of lesser quality, could it be the item was overbuilt in the first place?

2) Is it possible that the your evaluation of percieved quality is not the same as the purchaser?

3) How is the price unreasonably low if a profit can be generated by the willing seller?

4) By your logic, should minimime price/quantity standrds be set? Who should do so if the answer is yes?

5) Compettiton with smaller ventures is almost always going to be one sided. It isn't unfair. Is it unfair that in his heyday Muhammed Ali could have pounded Boom-Boom Mancini, or the Bismark could have easily taken out a four stack destroyer? Nope, just the nature of competition.


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## frazil (Apr 27, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> frazil said:
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> 
> > Don't you remember the milk problem, poisonous dog food, kids candy?
> ...


You're right! problem solved.


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## roadwreck (Apr 27, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Questions:
> 1) If the consumer buys these items of lesser quality, could it be the item was overbuilt in the first place?


It's funny to me that this thread spawned the "They don't build them like they used to" thread, but you then postulate that Wal-mart is selling lower quality items b/c what is currently available is overbuilt.

I will say that I don't hate Wal-mart, their business model obviously fills a need. I don't like shopping at Wal-mart b/c I feel in a lot of cases their products are inferior, their customer service is awful, I can get better value shopping elsewhere by spending a little more on higher quality products and I preserve my sanity by not subjecting myself to the shopping experience that is Wal-mart.

If people don't like Wal-mart then don't shop there. It's a business, if people didn't shop there they couldn't "bully" anyone.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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> 
> > Questions:
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Well, it IS kind of an interesting question, isn't it? How much more would you pay for a product based on longevity? I had a long discussion with an HVAC tech about this very question, because my parents have an AC unit and oil furnace that are 1963 or 64 models. He said you could build units like that today, but no one would pay extra for them because they've been conditioned (HAHA) to think that you need a new HVAC every fifteen years. The added longevity isn't percieved to be a good thing because the replacement unit would be more efficient.

I'm sure that it is a different mental exercise for every product.


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## roadwreck (Apr 27, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I'm sure that it is a different mental exercise for every product.


I'm sure it's a different mental exercise for every person too. I know I would prefer a quality product at a reasonable price then buy something just b/c it's cheap.

I'm weird though. :tardbang:


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
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> > I'm sure that it is a different mental exercise for every product.
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Yep, it would be.

That's what makes in interesting, because you have to make a decision on what mass behavior will be. If people like you make up 5% of the buyers, it may not be worth the cost of going after your business.

And a lot of times folks will say one thing, but do another. For all the bad feelings aimed at Walmart, they seem to be doing pretty well.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 27, 2011)

momech said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > I don't give two hot turds about made in America. I just want the best price, wherever its made. Plus it's a global economy these days anyway.
> ...









I guess it's back to the pile for you...


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## csb (Apr 27, 2011)

I have three reasons I don't frequent Wal-Mart:

1. Their $4 drug policy managed to close the small pharmacy that I enjoyed going to that had great customer service and hard to find items. It was also a friend's family business, so it was a little hard to watch it close after over 100 years in operation.

2. Our local Wal-Mart is typically jam packed and the overall crowd is rude. I've been hit with carts. It's not worth the hassle of going in.

3. The prices aren't always the cheapest in town. Some things are really cheap, but it's again not worth the hassle.

And a totally illogical reason- Target is pretty and fun to visit.

I used to have a pretty strong "I'm never buying from Wal-Mart EVER!" policy, but I've relaxed that. I won't visit the one here in town, but if I'm on the road and it's the only store in town, I'll go.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 27, 2011)

csb said:


> I used to have a pretty strong "I'm never buying from Wal-Mart EVER!" policy, but I've relaxed that. I won't visit the one here in town, but if I'm on the road and it's the only store in town, I'll go.


+1


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 27, 2011)

csb said:


> I won't visit the one here in town, but if I'm on the road and it's the only store in town, I'll go.


Do you get a T-shirt from every Wal-Mart that you visit just to prove that you've been there, a la Hard Rock Cafes or Harley Davidson dealerships?


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## csb (Apr 27, 2011)

I meant if I need something...I'm not like these people:

http://www.onfpg.com/


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## roadwreck (Apr 27, 2011)

^^

I still don't understand how any of this is Wal-mart's fault. It's the consumers fault for purchasing inferior quality products.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 27, 2011)

ngnrd said:


> Listen, I'm a capitalist. I'm a business owner. I truly believe in the FREE market. Profit is what makes the economy keep running, and I applaud Walmart for gaming the system in a way that allows them to make a profit. The problem is that, in the case of Walmart, the market is no longer free.


Actually, WalMart is a perfect case study in free markets. The people have spoken with their dollars, and what they said was "We want the best price, no matter what the quality." Sure, there may be a lot of WalMart haters in the world, but they wouldn't be the largest retailer in the world if they didn't give the people what they wanted.

If enough people get fed up with WalMart products, such as your Igloo cooler story, then maybe they will change their minds, and start paying more elsewhere for higher quality. At that time, WalMart will have to decide whether to continue their cost cutting, or raise prices and quality to meet the demands of the people.

What would be your "free market" solution to the WalMart situation? Government intervention to make them stop bullying manufacturers? That is what most "free" markets look like in America today.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> ^^I still don't understand how any of this is Wal-mart's fault. It's the consumers fault for purchasing inferior quality products.


I'm with you.

And in this example, it is Igloo's fault for pimping out their reputation for the honor of selling their product at Walmart. No bullying, just shrewd bidness.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

wilheldp_PE said:


> csb said:
> 
> 
> > I won't visit the one here in town, but if I'm on the road and it's the only store in town, I'll go.
> ...


Funny you mention that. About 10-11 years ago, my wife and I had to stay overnight out of town unexpectly. Went to walmart and bought t-shirts ($5) and sleeping bags ($17). I expected them to really be short lived stuff, but all are still in use, and look brand new, to this day.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 27, 2011)

but you can't forgot the demographic walmart caters to. most CAN'T afford to pay more, hence the cheapest price walmart can offer, the more food some people can buy for their families.

It is the middle/upper middle class demographic that is looking for something in between, not crap and not necessarily luxury.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 27, 2011)

> It is the middle/upper middle class demographic that is looking for something in between, not crap and not necessarily luxury.


This. Basically I want the best quality for my buck, but it is a tradeoff. How much do I need to pay for something that will function well for the long term. If I buy crap to save money, I'll just end up spending even more money to replace it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

ngnrd said:


> Do you suppose that there would be more higher wage manufacturing jobs if there wasn't such a demand for products that were "cheap, no matter how low the quality"?


No, I don't. I think high paying manufacturing jobs are a thing of the past, or soon will be. Some niche jobs will remain, but I'm talking in general.

But that has a lot more to do with mass production than it does with Walmart.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 27, 2011)

they can't pay more because they are poor farmers who live in a poor rural communities where manufacturing jobs don't exist and likely never will exist.


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## csb (Apr 27, 2011)

To be fair, those towns don't get a Wal-Mart. They get Pamida.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 27, 2011)

csb said:


> To be fair, those towns don't get a Wal-Mart. They get Pamida.


No pamidas around these parts. name sounds fun though


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## csb (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, I forgot Alco...there's also Alco if there isn't a Pamida or Wal-Mart.

And I'd say in the small communities here that are agriculturally based, Alco/Pamida serves as the general store, rather than the grocery store. It's where you can buy school supplies or clothes or housewares. For the most part, though, most of the people load up and drive to a bigger town for those shopping trips.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 27, 2011)

Never heard of Alco or Parmida. is that a western chain?


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## snickerd3 (Apr 27, 2011)

no i'm not saying they have to buy food at walmart. It was purely a statement that spending less on the other items, crappy coolers for example, would give them more $ to spend on food, wherever they bought it.


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## MA_PE (Apr 27, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Funny you mention that. About 10-11 years ago, my wife and I had to stay overnight out of town unexpectly. Went to walmart and bought t-shirts ($5) and sleeping bags ($17). I expected them to really be short lived stuff, but all are still in use, and look brand new, to this day.


well they should be. You only used them for one night.



Capt Worley PE said:


> ngnrd said:
> 
> 
> > Do you suppose that there would be more higher wage manufacturing jobs if there wasn't such a demand for products that were "cheap, no matter how low the quality"?
> ...


"higher wage manufacturing jobs" This is somewhat an oxy-moron. I believe it goes to skilled labor versus unskilled labor. IMHO assemblers are unskilled. higher paying jobs in manufacturing would be a small number because there's not a lot of need for "skilled" labor to keep the process going. Mechanics and managers.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 27, 2011)

^A friend of mine is a line manager at a chemical plant, one of those higher end mfr jobs you mentioned. Most of the guys on the line push the button/pull the lever/turn the crank on the same machine they've used for 20 years.


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## MA_PE (Apr 27, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> ^A friend of mine is a line manager at a chemical plant, one of those higher end mfr jobs you mentioned. Most of the guys on the line push the button/pull the lever/turn the crank on the same machine they've used for 20 years.


right. and he's the skilled guy that has to correct the situation when the guys pull the button, push the lever and play with their crank.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 27, 2011)

The pay and benefits for Walmart employees is another thing Ive seen as issues for some to boycott the stores. However, the majority of Walmart employees fall into this "unskilled" labor category. Walmart follows a similar business plan to McDonalds: simple systems and processes are instituted so that minimal training is required. They are setup so that any random highschooler can step into almost any position (excluding things like management and pharmacy) and they can mindlessly complete the tasks. The difference between Walmart and McD's is that McD's actually hires random highschoolers.


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## csb (Apr 27, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Never heard of Alco or Parmida. is that a western chain?


Alco is more like a wide ranging middle of America chain, with the wiener of America included:

http://www.duckwall.com/abt_alco_stores.aspx

Pamida covers about the same territory.

Fun story about a baby being born in the parking lot http://www.pamida.com/about/press/201003_Pamida_Baby.pdf


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 27, 2011)

> Alco is more like a wide ranging middle of America chain, with the wiener of America included:


Does that make the west coast of FL, just below the panhandle, the taint of America?


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## Kephart P.E. (Apr 27, 2011)

I was on the road once for work (in the South) needed some white T-shirts and I went to Walmart and got a 3-pack of Hanes.

When I got back to the hotel room and opened my purchases I noticed these t-shirts where different. The material felt really scratchy and the collars where not sewn on straight.

Then I looked at the packaging and apparently Hanes made this specifically to sell at Walmart and they were a really lower quality product but unless you looked closely they appeared the same. I felt cheated but for the couple of bucks I was out I wasn't going to return them then go to another store and get my clean t-shirts so I sucked it up. BTW I ended up turning these into rags because I washed and dryed them and they shrunk into belly shirts.

After that episode, once in a while when out of town I might go to Walmart, but I really scrutinize every purchase and if it is a name brand but "made for Walmart" I won't buy it and I never shop at Walmart when I have a choice.

I won't even get into my feelings about the Walmart brand groceries.


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## willsee (Apr 27, 2011)

i'm learning much about wal-mart that i never knew before


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## Road Guy (Apr 27, 2011)

again I am not "in love with wal-mart" but dont hate them either, they are a product of society, wal mart was made by americans, its like one of those 1970's bumper stickers that read "_Hungry? out of work? eat your import_!"

one time while driving home from Missourri (through the night with 2 babies in the car) we stopped to get gas at 2:00 AM somewhere in Kentucky.. filled up with gas, utilized the latrine, car wouldnt start.. oh shit.... had a guy in big truck try and jump us off, nothing..

no hotel at this interchange, but I could see the bright lights of a wal mart down the road.. so I hiked down there, figured I would give the battery thing just one more chance, bought a battery, hiked back, okay so maybe I pushed a cart down the side of the road, put it in, vroom it started up..

that night I tipped my hat to old wal-mart for sure!


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## MA_PE (Apr 27, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> The pay and benefits for Walmart employees is another thing Ive seen as issues for some to boycott the stores. However, the majority of Walmart employees fall into this "unskilled" labor category. Walmart follows a similar business plan to McDonalds: simple systems and processes are instituted so that minimal training is required. They are setup so that any random highschooler can step into almost any position (excluding things like management and pharmacy) and they can mindlessly complete the tasks. The difference between Walmart and McD's is that McD's actually hires random highschoolers.


If I had a major problem with Wal-mart this would be it. Just like all the big box stores, they displace local businesses that families have operated and MADE LIVING OFF OF and the "jobs" they tout about bringing into the community are minimum wage jobs suitable for high schoolers or retirees---not living wage jobs. However the majority of the working people in the community will patronize these stores because their paycheck will go farther and they still have a job. It's called free enterprise, but I'm not really sure it's healthy for the local economy.



Kephart P.E. said:


> I was on the road once for work (in the South) needed some white T-shirts and I went to Walmart and got a 3-pack of Hanes.
> When I got back to the hotel room and opened my purchases I noticed these t-shirts where different. The material felt really scratchy and the collars where not sewn on straight.
> 
> Then I looked at the packaging and apparently Hanes made this specifically to sell at Walmart and they were a really lower quality product but unless you looked closely they appeared the same. I felt cheated but for the couple of bucks I was out I wasn't going to return them then go to another store and get my clean t-shirts so I sucked it up. BTW I ended up turning these into rags because I washed and dryed them and they shrunk into belly shirts.
> ...


There are a lot of stores that market "factory-seconds" cheap. Wal-mart brands are the factory-seconds with out the "factory-seconds" label.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 27, 2011)

"Factory Seconds" can also be found at places like The Mills shopping malls and Factory Outlet stores.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 28, 2011)

MA_PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > Funny you mention that. About 10-11 years ago, my wife and I had to stay overnight out of town unexpectly. Went to walmart and bought t-shirts ($5) and sleeping bags ($17). I expected them to really be short lived stuff, but all are still in use, and look brand new, to this day.
> ...


Well, the sleeping bags have been used a couple, three times, so, yeah. the t-shirts are in regular use.



> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > ngnrd said:
> ...


You're right, and that's kinda what I meant, but was pressed for time typing the response.



MA_PE said:


> Dexman PE said:
> 
> 
> > The pay and benefits for Walmart employees is another thing Ive seen as issues for some to boycott the stores. However, the majority of Walmart employees fall into this "unskilled" labor category. Walmart follows a similar business plan to McDonalds: simple systems and processes are instituted so that minimal training is required. They are setup so that any random highschooler can step into almost any position (excluding things like management and pharmacy) and they can mindlessly complete the tasks. The difference between Walmart and McD's is that McD's actually hires random highschoolers.
> ...


Yeah, but service stations supported whole families at one time, too. I really think business models go through evolution and extinction. Big box stores and the malls are just far more convenient than mom and pop shops scattered around.


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## csb (Apr 28, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> > Alco is more like a wide ranging middle of America chain, with the wiener of America included:
> 
> 
> Does that make the west coast of FL, just below the panhandle, the taint of America?


Yes, yes it does.

(Apologies to Pensacola.)


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## MA_PE (Apr 28, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Yeah, but service stations supported whole families at one time, too. I really think business models go through evolution and extinction. Big box stores and the malls are just far more convenient than mom and pop shops scattered around.


Correct me if I'm wrong but service stations still do. Most are franchises for the conglomorate and the small ones still survive. It's not one big entity wiping out all the small ones. Similarly malls could be considered "business condos" as there are plenty of small retail businesses in the same location.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 28, 2011)

MA_PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, but service stations supported whole families at one time, too. I really think business models go through evolution and extinction. Big box stores and the malls are just far more convenient than mom and pop shops scattered around.
> ...


No (or very few, but I can't think of any locally) service stations left down here...most of them are abandonded property now because of LUST. Some have become title loan places.

There are local repair places, but no service stations, per se.

Malls down here have few mom and pop type stores in them. Rent is pretty ridiculous in local malls.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 28, 2011)

csb said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > > Alco is more like a wide ranging middle of America chain, with the wiener of America included:
> ...


Pansacola is in the western part of the Florida panhandle, near the FL/AL line. The real taint of America would therefore be Steinhatchee, FL (never been there. I had to Google Earth it). That would make Miami the A-hole. And therefore, the keys would be...


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 28, 2011)

Here's a good reason not to go to Walmart for eye exams or glasses:

Denver Post story


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## TouchDown (Apr 28, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > Road Guy said:
> ...



I went to Walmart trying to find a USB bluetooth wireless keyboard that worked with our Wii... they had one on a sale rack back in electronics that looked nice, better than what they had on the regular shelves, but it didn't have a price on it. I went to the electronics register and they said it wouldn't scan in. I went to customer service and they said that is not a WalMart keyboard... someone had returned it and the customer service dept paid the person for a keyboard that wasn't bought there.

I said, well, can I buy it and what's it worth? The manager came over and said, 'we can't sell anything that's not our product'.

I said, "Look, what are you going to do with it if it's not your product? I'll take it off your hands for $5".

He said $10.

I paid them $10 for a keyboard that when I got home looked up and it was a $50 keyboard.

My opinion if Walmart is that I shop there for consumables... except produce or meat. I've gotten a box of grapes that molds within a couple days from them before, their stuff is not as fresh.

For long lasting items (furniture, etc.), I've gone other places.

I do use them for electronics.

I also shop at Target, Kmart, Best Buy, etc.


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