# SE Buildings Vertical & Lateral - Fall 2022



## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

Hey Folks,

Just wanted to make a thread for everyone planning to write the buildings vertical &/or lateral exams this October. This can be a place for questions, comments, discussion, study groups, tips, etc.!

I'm in Phoenix, AZ and am planning to write both the vertical and lateral exams this fall. I'm also signed up for both the vertical and lateral AEI courses starting in July. It's going to be a busy and stressful 4 months


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## Engineerbabu (Jun 21, 2022)

I am not intending to demoralize you but I recommend taking one exam at a time unless you have already prepared for 4/5 months already.


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## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

Engineerbabu said:


> I am not intending to demoralize you but I recommend taking one exam at a time unless you have already prepared for 4/5 months already.


Although I appreciate your input, I think this decision will vary based on each individual. There are a multitude of people who take both exams together and pass both without issue. Some fail both. Some pass one and fail the other. Some individuals choose to take only one and fail repeatedly.

For me personally, taking both exams together is the path that makes the most sense. Life is busy. Blocking out 4-6 months of time for continuous, dedicated studying of all material is my preference. I'm blocking out the time to study, I would much rather cover all the material in one go. From experience, I know this is how I (personally) will better retain information versus trying to spread it out into blocks. If it doesn't work out I have the ability to retake the exam, in full or in parts, as required. 

I spoke with a number of colleagues on the topic and, honestly, most of them took the same approach. Again, personal preference. There is no right or wrong way, it's just what works best for you personally.


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## Reverse Polish (Jun 21, 2022)

Engineerbabu said:


> I am not intending to demoralize you but I recommend taking one exam at a time unless you have already prepared for 4/5 months already.



I second this. I did take both exams in the same weekend, studying for 9 months beforehand, and the exam was still a demoralizing process.
If you think you can fit 300-400 hours of study into 4 months, God bless you. Something's going to give, whether it be job, personal life, sleep, sanity, or exam preparation. That has nothing to do with a "personal preference"--that's just math.


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## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

Reverse Polish said:


> I second this. I did take both exams in the same weekend, studying for 9 months beforehand, and the exam was still a demoralizing process.
> If you think you can fit 300-400 hours of study into 4 months, God bless you. Something's going to give, whether it be job, personal life, sleep, sanity, or exam preparation. That has nothing to do with a "personal preference"--that's just math.


Studying 300-400 hours in 4 months is 75-100 hours per month, which if we take 4 weeks per month, breaks down to 18-25 hours per week. This is equivalent to a part time job, and I'm treating it as such. I have time blocks scheduled in my outlook calendar for 20-25 hours per week. 

As someone who's worked multiple jobs concurrently, and worked fulltime throughout college, this isn't an unreasonable schedule. Again, appreciate the input, but everyone is different. Also, don't get me wrong - I am in no way saying this is going to be easy.


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## Bard (Jun 21, 2022)

Let's talk about AASHTO! How do you become familiar with this insane reference for the breadth exam?


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## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

Bard said:


> Let's talk about AASHTO! How do you become familiar with this insane reference for the breadth exam?


Great question! Maybe a bridge guy/gal can chime in and provide us with some insight? 

Right now I'm taking the approach of tabbing things I reference when working through example problems. I'm hoping to get a better idea of key topics/sections to reference through the AEI course and aim to make a good cheat sheet so I can minimize having to reference the massive manual (I have mine split into two binders currently).


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## leggo PE (Jun 21, 2022)

Good luck!! People certainly do take both exams and pass. That wasn’t my experience, unfortunately.

The AEI classes are great! But going forward, I will try one exam at a time myself as well! If only for the fact that I simply couldn’t keep up with both classes at the same time by the end — something had to give. And that was with starting and making it through almost all of the gravity class on my own time before the lateral (and subsequently the gravity) class got started.

Anyway, I sincerely hope you are one of the ones who conquers both, or at least one, of the exams!!

I’m next looking at spring 2023 — cutting it close to the CBT test, I know!


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## Bard (Jun 21, 2022)

Justover said:


> Great question! Maybe a bridge guy/gal can chime in and provide us with some insight?
> 
> Right now I'm taking the approach of tabbing things I reference when working through example problems. I'm hoping to get a better idea of key topics/sections to reference through the AEI course and aim to make a good cheat sheet so I can minimize having to reference the massive manual (I have mine split into two binders currently).



That's my same approach. I plan on purchasing David Connor's SE book (David Connor, SE | Structural Engineer) to go through examples and tab everything I come across. Not sure if there are other good resources for bridge problems that are made for "Building Depth" folks.

It's just frustrating that this is the only reference I have trouble with. While I am unfamiliar with bridge analysis and design, I'm also unfamiliar with wood and masonry design and have had no issues becoming familiar with those references. AASHTO is daunting to look at, let alone to open and read.

It makes me have a greater appreciation for AISC and ACI for their well-written references (even if it took ACI up to 2019 to make that happen).


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## DoctorWho-PE (Jun 21, 2022)

Justover said:


> Studying 300-400 hours in 4 months is 75-100 hours per month, which if we take 4 weeks per month, breaks down to 18-25 hours per week. This is equivalent to a part time job, and I'm treating it as such. I have time blocks scheduled in my outlook calendar for 20-25 hours per week.
> 
> As someone who's worked multiple jobs concurrently, and worked fulltime throughout college, this isn't an unreasonable schedule. Again, appreciate the input, but everyone is different. Also, don't get me wrong - I am in no way saying this is going to be easy.


Good luck! I also attempted both and failed, twice. AEI does prepare you well, but be ready to spend well more than 18-25 hours a week if taking both classes. Just instruction time alone is 20+ hours a week, if doing the live version. At least with on demand you can speed up the videos, which is nice.


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## DoctorWho-PE (Jun 21, 2022)

Bard said:


> That's my same approach. I plan on purchasing David Connor's SE book (David Connor, SE | Structural Engineer) to go through examples and tab everything I come across. Not sure if there are other good resources for bridge problems that are made for "Building Depth" folks.
> 
> It's just frustrating that this is the only reference I have trouble with. While I am unfamiliar with bridge analysis and design, I'm also unfamiliar with wood and masonry design and have had no issues becoming familiar with those references. AASHTO is daunting to look at, let alone to open and read.
> 
> It makes me have a greater appreciation for AISC and ACI for their well-written references (even if it took ACI up to 2019 to make that happen).


I actually find the AASHTO to be pretty well organized, and the index is amazing. Don't know how to design bearings? Index will tell you where to go. So once you kind of grasp the basics of AASHTO, the code can usually get you the rest of the way.


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## DaBird1 (Jun 21, 2022)

DoctorWho-PE said:


> I actually find the AASHTO to be pretty well organized, and the index is amazing. Don't know how to design bearings? Index will tell you where to go. So once you kind of grasp the basics of AASHTO, the code can usually get you the rest of the way.


The index I know for certain has saved my ass more than once during the exam. Had a topic that I had no idea about went to the index and BAM! Also if you know the chapter you can also use the definitions in the front of each chapter to help you locate the correct equations as well. That has helped me too. AASHTO is so daunting just because of its VOLUME. In essence it combines all of our normal building codes into a one stop shop. So for bridge people that is nice. I personally don't like bridges though. ha!


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## Salt-Acid-Fat-Heat-Acid (Jun 21, 2022)

DoctorWho-PE said:


> Good luck! I also attempted both and failed, twice. AEI does prepare you well, but be ready to spend well more than 18-25 hours a week if taking both classes. Just instruction time alone is 20+ hours a week, if doing the live version. At least with on demand you can speed up the videos, which is nice.


Almost no way I could have done both with the live lectures. Some I watched at 1.5X, some at 2X, some at 1.25X. Also, I recommend skipping the videos for materials you know pretty well and just do problems. Also, I recommend giving the depth problems a shot before watching the videos. No one seems to get enough practice on the depth problems, and while watching the videos helps, you need more practice with long form problems.


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## DoctorWho-PE (Jun 21, 2022)

Dr I videos I could speed up, but some of Dr Z's were too fast to start with.


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## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

DoctorWho-PE said:


> Good luck! I also attempted both and failed, twice. AEI does prepare you well, but be ready to spend well more than 18-25 hours a week if taking both classes. Just instruction time alone is 20+ hours a week, if doing the live version. At least with on demand you can speed up the videos, which is nice.


I've been going through the videos and watching them at 1.5x speed and skipping over things I'm comfortable with. I generally prefer to read through the notes and work practice problems and just watch the video if a concept is unclear or if I feel I need more information. 

I've been debating if I should listen to the 'live' classes when they start, but wasn't sure if this would be a valuable use of my time. Did you ever listen to the live classes or have any thoughts on this?


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## Justover (Jun 21, 2022)

leggo PE said:


> Good luck!! People certainly do take both exams and pass. That wasn’t my experience, unfortunately.
> 
> The AEI classes are great! But going forward, I will try one exam at a time myself as well! If only for the fact that I simply couldn’t keep up with both classes at the same time by the end — something had to give. And that was with starting and making it through almost all of the gravity class on my own time before the lateral (and subsequently the gravity) class got started.
> 
> ...


Did you pre-listen on your own time and try and attend the 'live' classes? Or what was your approach? 

Bummer that you didn't pass - was your first attempt in Spring 2022? Are you choosing to wait until 2023 to just give yourself more time to study, rather than trying for the Fall 2022 exam? The whole CBT is stressful, I don't want to get stuck taking that exam..


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## DoctorWho-PE (Jun 21, 2022)

Justover said:


> I've been going through the videos and watching them at 1.5x speed and skipping over things I'm comfortable with. I generally prefer to read through the notes and work practice problems and just watch the video if a concept is unclear or if I feel I need more information.
> 
> I've been debating if I should listen to the 'live' classes when they start, but wasn't sure if this would be a valuable use of my time. Did you ever listen to the live classes or have any thoughts on this?


I have done the live for the most part. This last time i logged in and listened with it as background noise, but worked problems and such during them. That way when i had questions i could ask live.


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## _tslewis (Jun 21, 2022)

Justover said:


> Studying 300-400 hours in 4 months is 75-100 hours per month, which if we take 4 weeks per month, breaks down to 18-25 hours per week. This is equivalent to a part time job, and I'm treating it as such. I have time blocks scheduled in my outlook calendar for 20-25 hours per week.
> 
> As someone who's worked multiple jobs concurrently, and worked fulltime throughout college, this isn't an unreasonable schedule. Again, appreciate the input, but everyone is different. Also, don't get me wrong - I am in no way saying this is going to be easy.


ok, looks like you know best. I'm on hird time trying to pass vertical after passing lateral first time in April, 

I only took lateral and vertical at same time in April after having studied only for vertical beforehand on 2 exam attempts.

if you are going to study for one exam I would do vertical as you can't pass lateral without some knowledge of vertical codes and design methods.

I also took aei and would recommend.

although vertical maybe easier numerically, is is vast in terms of material to know and 400 hours is needed just for vertical in my opinion.

of course it helps if yiu are in a pure engineering role at work and are being exposed to relevant SE material 24/7....


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## _tslewis (Jun 21, 2022)

Justover said:


> Studying 300-400 hours in 4 months is 75-100 hours per month, which if we take 4 weeks per month, breaks down to 18-25 hours per week. This is equivalent to a part time job, and I'm treating it as such. I have time blocks scheduled in my outlook calendar for 20-25 hours per week.
> 
> As someone who's worked multiple jobs concurrently, and worked fulltime throughout college, this isn't an unreasonable schedule. Again, appreciate the input, but everyone is different. Also, don't get me wrong - I am in no way saying this is going to be easy.


having taken AEI, you will easily eat up 18 hours a week just attending class. the lateral is twice as intensive as vertical and often runs twice as long as expected with multiple additional classes. it is worth it as Dr I id fantastic at going through a lot of lateral fundamentals


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## _tslewis (Jun 21, 2022)

Bard said:


> Let's talk about AASHTO! How do you become familiar with this insane reference for the breadth exam?


aastho is not that hard for building engineers, they have to give easier aashto questions for the non bridge engineer. 

use the AASHTO index, it is fantastically well organized and has everything.

you will never be able to prepare for every AASHTO question and I guarantee you will have 2 or 3 questions you have yo use index for,, don't panic and use the index


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## _tslewis (Jun 21, 2022)

DoctorWho-PE said:


> Dr I videos I could speed up, but some of Dr Z's were too fast to start with.


lol so true


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## Engineerbabu (Jun 22, 2022)

Justover said:


> Although I appreciate your input, I think this decision will vary based on each individual. There are a multitude of people who take both exams together and pass both without issue. Some fail both. Some pass one and fail the other. Some individuals choose to take only one and fail repeatedly.
> 
> For me personally, taking both exams together is the path that makes the most sense. Life is busy. Blocking out 4-6 months of time for continuous, dedicated studying of all material is my preference. I'm blocking out the time to study, I would much rather cover all the material in one go. From experience, I know this is how I (personally) will better retain information versus trying to spread it out into blocks. If it doesn't work out I have the ability to retake the exam, in full or in parts, as required.
> 
> I spoke with a number of colleagues on the topic and, honestly, most of them took the same approach. Again, personal preference. There is no right or wrong way, it's just what works best for you personally.


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## Engineerbabu (Jun 22, 2022)

I agree it’s depends on personal choice/work experience/ exposure to seismic and wind projects in the past/exposure to various construction materials at work etc. I couldn’t agree more with you on that.
However, for someone who is young and has less than 3 years of work experience, working in East coast and doing a single type of lateral force resisting system, it’s impossible (unless some crazy talented dude) to pass both exams with 4 months of preparation while working full time. I passed both exams on my first attempt but I didn’t feel confident at all after I got out of the exam. I thought I failed the lateral because I was only able to do half of one of the question in the PM and I never even aimed to solve more than 36 questions in the AM. But I was confident that I solved 36 of them properly and used the time I saved from 4 questions I was gonna miss anyways. To gain that confidence I had to overwork. I spent a lot of time for Lateral. I lost track of my progress at some point. I spent a month just on Concrete shear walls when I should have finished all concrete in that period. So for anyone who is relatively new to the industry, feel free to spend about 1.5 years to 2 years in preparation including PE. Just my couple cents in here. Hope it helps!


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## leggo PE (Jun 22, 2022)

Justover said:


> Did you pre-listen on your own time and try and attend the 'live' classes? Or what was your approach?
> 
> Bummer that you didn't pass - was your first attempt in Spring 2022? Are you choosing to wait until 2023 to just give yourself more time to study, rather than trying for the Fall 2022 exam? The whole CBT is stressful, I don't want to get stuck taking that exam..


I pre-listened to the vertical class from the prior session on my own time, before the classes started. Once both classes started, I listened in live to all classes. It was a lot.

No, my first attempt was in spring 2021. I got so burned out I couldn’t reattempt in the fall and didn’t get my life in line to try again (on just the vertical test) this spring. I’m punting to next year because I generally prefer to study in the fall and winter, vs the spring and summer.


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## Engineerbabu (Jun 22, 2022)

Bard said:


> That's my same approach. I plan on purchasing David Connor's SE book (David Connor, SE | Structural Engineer) to go through examples and tab everything I come across. Not sure if there are other good resources for bridge problems that are made for "Building Depth" folks.
> 
> It's just frustrating that this is the only reference I have trouble with. While I am unfamiliar with bridge analysis and design, I'm also unfamiliar with wood and masonry design and have had no issues becoming familiar with those references. AASHTO is daunting to look at, let alone to open and read.
> 
> It makes me have a greater appreciation for AISC and ACI for their well-written references (even if it took ACI up to 2019 to make that happen).


Brad, 

David Conners book for Bridge is a good book and I recommend you to solve all the problems at least once but that being said don’t expect more than 20% similar questions at the exam. I would focus on Steel, Concrete and Foundation related portion of AASTHO independently using FHWA design examples available for free. In case you don’t have any time left for bridge after completing David’s book, just print FHWA design examples and spend about a couple days just to be able to browse the example problem in the book. (This is something I didn’t do during the exam, if only I knew about this book before exam.)


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## David Connor SE (Jun 22, 2022)

Bard said:


> That's my same approach. I plan on purchasing David Connor's SE book (David Connor, SE | Structural Engineer) to go through examples and tab everything I come across. Not sure if there are other good resources for bridge problems that are made for "Building Depth" folks.
> 
> It's just frustrating that this is the only reference I have trouble with. While I am unfamiliar with bridge analysis and design, I'm also unfamiliar with wood and masonry design and have had no issues becoming familiar with those references. AASHTO is daunting to look at, let alone to open and read.
> 
> It makes me have a greater appreciation for AISC and ACI for their well-written references (even if it took ACI up to 2019 to make that happen).


I am a "Building Depth" engineer and took the building SE exam. I wrote my book (Bridge Problems for the Structural Engineering (SE) Exam for the building engineer who needs some review for the 10-12 bridge multiple choice questions you will see on both components of the SE exam. I think if you work through all of the problems in my book you will have a great basis for how bridge structural analysis and design is done and how AASHTO is laid out. It's actually not as daunting when you realize the AASHTO code is a one stop shop for everything, no shuffling between codes like us building engineers have to do. Some of the problems in my book are a little more in-depth than a typical "6 minute question", but I wanted to cover as much as I could. 

I also give some testing tips and other study guide recommendations in my book as well. For instance, someone mentioned tabbing the codes. But don't get too carried away with it. I "overtabbed" some of my codes before the exam and rendered the tabs almost useless. Also, leave a gap in the middle of the page edges between your tabs so you can still thumb through the pages and not get caught on the tabs.


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## SE_AEgir (Jun 22, 2022)

To everyone taking the exam in the fall, buckle down and good luck.


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## andyliu (Jun 23, 2022)

_tslewis said:


> having taken AEI, you will easily eat up 18 hours a week just attending class. the lateral is twice as intensive as vertical and often runs twice as long as expected with multiple additional classes. it is worth it as Dr I id fantastic at going through a lot of lateral fundamentals





David Connor SE said:


> I am a "Building Depth" engineer and took the building SE exam. I wrote my book (Bridge Problems for the Structural Engineering (SE) Exam for the building engineer who needs some review for the 10-12 bridge multiple choice questions you will see on both components of the SE exam. I think if you work through all of the problems in my book you will have a great basis for how bridge structural analysis and design is done and how AASHTO is laid out. It's actually not as daunting when you realize the AASHTO code is a one stop shop for everything, no shuffling between codes like us building engineers have to do. Some of the problems in my book are a little more in-depth than a typical "6 minute question", but I wanted to cover as much as I could.
> 
> I also give some testing tips and other study guide recommendations in my book as well. For instance, someone mentioned tabbing the codes. But don't get too carried away with it. I "overtabbed" some of my codes before the exam and rendered the tabs almost useless. Also, leave a gap in the middle of the page edges between your tabs so you can still thumb through the pages and not get caught on the tabs.


Agree. David's book is very good and I reviewed the questions twice before the exam. I would say I did 5/6 correct in lateral and the only one left was due to time limit, but I actually knew how to do it.


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## bonniferous (Jun 24, 2022)

Is anyone in this thread in the AEI course? I'm retaking the lateral exam this october and somehow I have misplaced a portion of my seismic notes. The HW set with problems 1-18. I believe they are pages 2H-1 - 2H-6. If anyone would be willing to share those pages with me that would be great!


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## DoctorWho-PE (Jun 24, 2022)

bonniferous said:


> Is anyone in this thread in the AEI course? I'm retaking the lateral exam this october and somehow I have misplaced a portion of my seismic notes. The HW set with problems 1-18. I believe they are pages 2H-1 - 2H-6. If anyone would be willing to share those pages with me that would be great!


Please don't post the same thing in multiple places. You could reach out to Dr I, he will likely send you those sheets. (I lost a whole section once somehow.)


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## bonniferous (Jun 24, 2022)

DoctorWho-PE said:


> Please don't post the same thing in multiple places. You could reach out to Dr I, he will likely send you those sheets. (I lost a whole section once somehow.)


Thanks so much! I just posted in two different threads . I'll try reaching out to Dr I!


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## Justover (Jun 24, 2022)

leggo PE said:


> I pre-listened to the vertical class from the prior session on my own time, before the classes started. Once both classes started, I listened in live to all classes. It was a lot.
> 
> No, my first attempt was in spring 2021. I got so burned out I couldn’t reattempt in the fall and didn’t get my life in line to try again (on just the vertical test) this spring. I’m punting to next year because I generally prefer to study in the fall and winter, vs the spring and summer.


Definitely sounds like a lot to run through them twice like that. I've been going through the old videos and listening on my own time since I got access to them, just torn on if I should also listen live given how time consuming it'll be. Did you find it to be beneficial? Or do you think it would have been more beneficial to approach it differently?

That's fair. Summer for me is a much better time to study, given the weather in Phoenix..


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## JNS (Jun 26, 2022)

Justover said:


> Although I appreciate your input, I think this decision will vary based on each individual. There are a multitude of people who take both exams together and pass both without issue. Some fail both. Some pass one and fail the other. Some individuals choose to take only one and fail repeatedly.
> 
> For me personally, taking both exams together is the path that makes the most sense. Life is busy. Blocking out 4-6 months of time for continuous, dedicated studying of all material is my preference. I'm blocking out the time to study, I would much rather cover all the material in one go. From experience, I know this is how I (personally) will better retain information versus trying to spread it out into blocks. If it doesn't work out I have the ability to retake the exam, in full or in parts, as required.
> 
> I spoke with a number of colleagues on the topic and, honestly, most of them took the same approach. Again, personal preference. There is no right or wrong way, it's just what works best for you personally.


Agree with this. I did this for both April 2022 and passed Vert and came close for Lateral. I only really studied for 3 1/2 months (Self Study). I was doing maybe 25-30 hours a week Now I get to just do lateral for my next attempts.

IMO I think people overwhelm themselves taking the refresher courses. If you do a lot of engineering at work just going through SERM is enough for Vertical. Maybe complement with some review books for bridges. Obviously this depends on your comfort level with a lot of topics and how you learn but taking a review course probably doubles the time you need to study, since the review course by itself takes like 20 hours a week and it won't be enough by itself for you to learn the material.

Lateral a course might be warranted, specially since the SERM barely has any lateral content. I had to get other sources just to get problems. I also read through the entire chapter for Seismic design for ACI and through part of the AISC SDM. I'm definitely considering a course for my next attempt.


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## _tslewis (Aug 18, 2022)

Engineerbabu said:


> Brad,
> 
> David Conners book for Bridge is a good book and I recommend you to solve all the problems at least once but that being said don’t expect more than 20% similar questions at the exam. I would focus on Steel, Concrete and Foundation related portion of AASTHO independently using FHWA design examples available for free. In case you don’t have any time left for bridge after completing David’s book, just print FHWA design examples and spend about a couple days just to be able to browse the example problem in the book. (This is something I didn’t do during the exam, if only I knew about this book before exam.)


what are the FHWA design examples? I hace Conners book and am taking AEI class


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## Serg305 (Aug 18, 2022)

My plan's to take the Vertical test in April and Lateral in October. I passed the PE (Civil / Structural Depth) back in 2008 and getting back into studying has been an adventure of itself. 

That said, I have the whole set from PPI, and of course , have to get AASHTO.


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## Br_Engr (Aug 18, 2022)

JNS said:


> Agree with this. I did this for both April 2022 and passed Vert and came close for Lateral. I only really studied for 3 1/2 months (Self Study). I was doing maybe 25-30 hours a week Now I get to just do lateral for my next attempts.
> 
> IMO I think people overwhelm themselves taking the refresher courses. If you do a lot of engineering at work just going through SERM is enough for Vertical. Maybe complement with some review books for bridges. Obviously this depends on your comfort level with a lot of topics and how you learn but taking a review course probably doubles the time you need to study, since the review course by itself takes like 20 hours a week and it won't be enough by itself for you to learn the material.
> 
> Lateral a course might be warranted, specially since the SERM barely has any lateral content. I had to get other sources just to get problems. I also read through the entire chapter for Seismic design for ACI and through part of the AISC SDM. I'm definitely considering a course for my next attempt.


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## Br_Engr (Aug 18, 2022)

_tslewis said:


> what are the FHWA design examples? I hace Conners book and am taking AEI class


www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/pubs/nhi15047.pdf


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## SE_AEgir (Oct 19, 2022)

Good luck tomorrow and Friday everyone.
May all your long hours pay off!


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## psustruct (Oct 22, 2022)

Took lateral. I felt the morning went well until about halfway. I was keeping good time, but then she called the 15 minute warning, and I just got to problem 139--somewhere between halfway and the end I lost track..... I still needed to go back for the bridge questions. I went back and got a few of them solved, guessed on the rest.
I felt the afternoon went very well. I suspect I may get a IR for one of the concrete problems. NOW WE WAIT!!!!


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