# Licensure In Other States



## jfluckey (Jun 19, 2012)

As a new engineer for the state of IN, I now have questions about state licensure by comity. I'm starting close to home and looking into IL by endorsement (i.e. comity). If anyone has increased their state license inventory, please explain the process for the states you have done. Indiana does not issue licenses based on discipline, therefore I am a P.E. in Indiana and I will get to be an S.E. in IL.

I also looked into CA for giggles and have much to do there. I have taken and passed the NCEES Structural 16 hour exam. I have not taken any other exams, meaning I have not held a civil PE license. CA requires you to hold a Civil PE license for a number of years before applying for the Structural license.

Again, share your experiences if you have used your home state's license to obtain other states's licenses.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 19, 2012)

so you have only taken the 16 hr test. not the 8 hr PE exam?


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## jfluckey (Jun 20, 2012)

This is correct. Indiana is not based on discipline. I am therefore a PE in Indiana. I was thinking of pursuing a civil PE so I can get licensed in CA. I don't know if any other states have restrictions like CA.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 20, 2012)

well if you only took the SE 16 hr, you technically wouldn't be a PE in IL...you'd have the SE designation With an SE all you can do is structural work.


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## dakota_79 (Jun 21, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> you technically wouldn't be a PE in IL...you'd have the SE designation


I think that's understood, and is the desire here. The problem people like jfluckey and I face with this new 16-hr SE exam is that we practice in states that don't have separate SE designation, so we're still "just" a PE in our home state. Since many of us feel like getting the SE title since we went through all the tribulations of passing the SE exam, we seek an SE state for comity to get that SE badge.

jf: FWIW, I have my eye on Nebraska and Utah - looks like they're both pretty basic, in terms of their SE requirements being based on the MLSE, which is what we've effectively already accomplished (education, experience, exam, no civil PE requirement). Based on horror stories of how "different" and difficult IL is to deal with, I look at the letter of their law which says to get an SE by comity, you must hold an SE from another state, and am thinking I don't even feel like starting down the road with them. Could be unfounded though. I do some work in NE anyway, from time to time, so it makes sense for me to go there. I'm also in the same boat as you: eyeing up laying the groundwork for a CA SE, looks like we'd have to go back and take the civil PE exam to get a "civil" PE license there. Doesn't make sense that way, but may be the reality. At least those additional exams will be more or less pressure-free (in terms of not having the pressure of "if I don't pass this I'll still be completely unlicensed")!

Edit: just double checked, and Utah does require a "civil" PE. As do CA, ID, NV, OR and Guam. The SE states that don't require a "civil" PE are HI, IL, NE, and WA. There's also AK, AZ, LA, NM, TX, and VT which are all "roster designation" only, so not sure if you get to call yourself an SE in those states.


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## kevo_55 (Jun 21, 2012)

^^ WA requires you to first be licensed as a civil before you can be licensed as a structural.

Also, I wouldn't worry about comity in IL. When the MLSE first came out I actually had passed my Structural II exam ( ld-025: ) so I had applied for it. Once I was finally granted my MLSE, I applied to IL via comity and had no issues.


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## jfluckey (Jun 21, 2012)

kevo_55 said:


> ^^ WA requires you to first be licensed as a civil before you can be licensed as a structural.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't worry about comity in IL. When the MLSE first came out I actually had passed my Structural II exam ( ld-025: ) so I had applied for it. Once I was finally granted my MLSE, I applied to IL via comity and had no issues.


This is good news. I've been going over the IL SE application the last couple days and it didn't seem like I should have any problems. I was worried that the P.E. I sat under was only a P.E. and not an S.E., but it seems the application has eased my concerns: _The experience must have been acquired in the employment of or direct supervision of a_* licensed structural engineer or an engineer*_ legally practicing structural engineering. Prior to July 24, 202, the experience must have been acquired in the employ of or direct supervision of a U.S. licensed engineer legally practicing structural engineering._

The bold text makes me believe that my supervisor's IN PE is sufficient since all we do is structural work. I don't think my supervisor has any intentions of taking any structural tests though. I believed he received his PE in '84 for taking the Mechanical PE test. That is why it is important for me to get my SE; for states he can't seal.


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## ADB (Jun 21, 2012)

OH MY GOD....TURNS OUT THAT I DID NOT PASS IL SE EXAM. I HAD A LICENSE # AND EVERYTHING. I AM SOOOO DISGUSTED WITH THIS WHOLE PROCESS. CTS AND ILDFPR BOTH EFFED UP THE REPORTING PROCESS. I AM SO EMBARRASSED AS WELL NOW I HAVE TO TELL MY EMPLOYER THAT I DIDN'T PASS.


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## jfluckey (Jun 21, 2012)

ADB said:


> OH MY GOD....TURNS OUT THAT I DID NOT PASS IL SE EXAM. I HAD A LICENSE # AND EVERYTHING. I AM SOOOO DISGUSTED WITH THIS WHOLE PROCESS. CTS AND ILDFPR BOTH EFFED UP THE REPORTING PROCESS. I AM SO EMBARRASSED AS WELL NOW I HAVE TO TELL MY EMPLOYER THAT I DIDN'T PASS.


Did you log on to the NCEES website? Did it also report that you had passed?


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## ADB (Jun 21, 2012)

In IL they don't report through NCEES. They report to CTS. It is a whole screwed up process. Only in Illinois...


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## McEngr (Jun 21, 2012)

Wow. So sorry ADB


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## kevo_55 (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry to hear this ADB.


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## dakota_79 (Jun 21, 2012)

kevo_55 said:


> ^^ WA requires you to first be licensed as a civil before you can be licensed as a structural.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't worry about comity in IL. When the MLSE first came out I actually had passed my Structural II exam ( ld-025: ) so I had applied for it. Once I was finally granted my MLSE, I applied to IL via comity and had no issues.


Thanks for the info Kevo. Yeah hey, well, I'm so old I remember when they said the point of this new exam was to simplify the comity process


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## jfluckey (Jun 21, 2012)

You have my condolences as well. This is terrible news. I'm apathetic about most things, but this I can relate to and it makes my stomach churn.


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## kevo_55 (Jun 21, 2012)

dakota_79 said:


> Thanks for the info Kevo. Yeah hey, well, I'm so old I remember when they said the p*oint of this new exam was to simplify the comity process *


Ha! I'd say that the jury is still out on the comity proccess.


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## hank89 (Jun 22, 2012)

dakota_79 said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > you technically wouldn't be a PE in IL...you'd have the SE designation
> ...


Jeff,

Congrats on passing.

This is a great doc if you have a bit of time to read:

http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/20110817_NCSEA_Proposed_Licensing_Policy.pdf

Jeff, this page from ncees:

http://www.ncees.org/Records/Structural_engineers.php

says if you are already an SE you can apply for MLSE designation. So I am not sure if you can get the MLSE designation until after you have your SE license.

This is what I plan to do...I have my Civil PE and I passed the SE in April. Last year I went thru the NCEES Records process. It is a pain in the rear to go thru but I think it is well worth it if you plan to license in a few states. I am currently having my board to update my NCEES Record to include the SE Exam. I will then forward the Record on to Utah and Illinois or wherever I can get it...and then I will apply for the MLSE designation after I have an SE.

I think after you have the NCEES MLSE Designation you are set. Whenever you need a license in a state, you just have them forward your Record- which has your educational, employment, references, etc.


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## dakota_79 (Jun 23, 2012)

Hank:

-thanks, likewise

-thanks

-thanks

-sounds like a solid plan


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## Rhoadies (Jun 23, 2012)

hank89 said:


> dakota_79 said:
> 
> 
> > snickerd3 said:
> ...


I am thoroughly confused by this. I took the SE as my licensing exam so I wouldn't have to take the civil/structural since I practice only structural. I am in Texas where we do not recognize the SE so now I am a licensed PE here. Doesn't that mean I am a PE when I go to apply for other states that require a PE first?


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## dakota_79 (Jun 23, 2012)

Rhoadies said:


> I am thoroughly confused by this. I took the SE as my licensing exam so I wouldn't have to take the civil/structural since I practice only structural. I am in Texas where we do not recognize the SE so now I am a licensed PE here. Doesn't that mean I am a PE when I go to apply for other states that require a PE first?


Sure, we're a PE, but the question is: are we explicitly a "civil" PE. Some of the SE states require explicitly a Civil PE first before gaining the SE (whereas some just require a PE without any explicit mention of branch). And when you look at their requirements for in-state residents, that means taking the NCEES 8-hr civil exam. The question is how the letter of that law reads regarding comity. You may be correct, and I hope you are. I've submitted this question to the California Board person responsible for handling questions on PE comity, so we'll see what they say.

Not sure about TX, but WI doesn't even recognize different branches for the PE on their roster, so it boils down to whether the states seeking comity from accept my 16-hr SE exam as acceptable for gaining a Civil PE license in their respective state.


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## BokuwaPat (Jun 23, 2012)

FYI, to get a Civil PE in California, you must also pass the two California-specific exams: the Seismic and Engineering Surveying exams. If you deal with seismic issues regularly the Seismic exam should be no problem since it's focused solely on the code and not actual earthquake-resistant design (California Building Code and ASCE 7). I know a number of people that have had trouble with the Surveying exam though.


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## dakota_79 (Jun 25, 2012)

dakota_79 said:


> Rhoadies said:
> 
> 
> > I am thoroughly confused by this. I took the SE as my licensing exam so I wouldn't have to take the civil/structural since I practice only structural. I am in Texas where we do not recognize the SE so now I am a licensed PE here. Doesn't that mean I am a PE when I go to apply for other states that require a PE first?
> ...


Just got the bad news, from CA at least. We would have to go backward and take the 8-hr civil PE regardless. My assumption is the same would be true for the other SE states mentioned above that require explicitly a Civil PE as part of their SE requirements, since I think that's the only reason for having that requirement.

Quoting email reply to me from CA a board licensing evaluator:



> In California *it is a requirement to take and pass the NCEES 8 hr. Civil exam* as well as the 2 California State Specific exams, Seismic Principles and Engineering Surveying to become licensed as civil in California.
> 
> Please read more about the requirements to become licensed as a civil and structural engineer in California here:
> 
> ...


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## jfluckey (Jul 3, 2012)

dakota_79 said:


> since I think that's the only reason for having that requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dakota - I got the same email ldman:

I am still waiting on my supervisor to fill out my experience form so I can get my IL SE taken care of. :beat:


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