# "This Economy"



## C-Dog (Jan 19, 2009)

Just curious... Our corporate folks have defered our raises this year (not supprising) and the class at the local Uni I was scheduled to teach got combined with another one to save $


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## Supe (Jan 19, 2009)

Stayed the same for me, although I was actually given a typical 6% raise as well. I did get screwed out of a bonus because of the way accounting dictates our "fiscal year," but looking at the bonus percentages for those who did qualify, there was no immediate impact there either.

Where we did see some issues was project postponement by the clients themselves. This is making it very difficult to place site-specific personnel who are demobilizing in the near future at approximately the same time.


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## bigray76 (Jan 19, 2009)

I didn't get a raise this year, but we trimmed about 10% of the staff in the last two months - mostly field personnel with no new project to go to.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 19, 2009)

We don't typically find out what raises or going to be until the end of February so I don't know what's going to happen. My guess is that since I had a huge raise last year, this year is going to suck. Our company is doing quite well as public utilties in the water/wastewater sector are somewhat insulated from the rest of the economy. People still need to shit in toilets and drink water regardless of whether or not the economy sucks. I am thinking 5% if I'm lucky. I think between the PE, promotion, and merit raise last year I had about a 15 or 16% increase so I guess I won't be greedy. I may get a bonus this year but that will probably only be 3 or 4%.


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## McEngr (Jan 19, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> We don't typically find out what raises or going to be until the end of February so I don't know what's going to happen. My guess is that since I had a huge raise last year, this year is going to suck. Our company is doing quite well as public utilties in the water/wastewater sector are somewhat insulated from the rest of the economy. People still need to shit in toilets and drink water regardless of whether or not the economy sucks. I am thinking 5% if I'm lucky. I think between the PE, promotion, and merit raise last year I had about a 15 or 16% increase so I guess I won't be greedy. I may get a bonus this year but that will probably only be 3 or 4%.


I got laid off from my job. I survived for nearly a year before they laid off everyone except for the owners and department managers. I was working my way into management, but I guess the perception was that I was still a design engineer. It was my first consulting job (private sector). I was previously in the metal building industry, which is still strong. Because I didn't want to move from the Northwest, my new job is in telecommunications structures. Not glamorous, but it has its challenges too. 30 foot deep drilled piers are "interesting" to say the least.


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## Supe (Jan 19, 2009)

McEngr said:


> I got laid off from my job. I survived for nearly a year before they laid off everyone except for the owners and department managers. I was working my way into management, but I guess the perception was that I was still a design engineer. It was my first consulting job (private sector). I was previously in the metal building industry, which is still strong. Because I didn't want to move from the Northwest, my new job is in telecommunications structures. Not glamorous, but it has its challenges too. 30 foot deep drilled piers are "interesting" to say the least.


So, they have owners and managers, but they lay off everyone who performs the actual consulting work? There's a brilliant business plan. That's like laying off all the mechanics at a garage, but keeping the receptionist.


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## McEngr (Jan 19, 2009)

Supebeard said:


> So, they have owners and managers, but they lay off everyone who performs the actual consulting work? There's a brilliant business plan. That's like laying off all the mechanics at a garage, but keeping the receptionist.


The managers are licensed engineers too. They just are trimming up to keep every department. They would rather keep a drafting manager and a surveying manager than to keep a civil PE working on the SE exams. :angry:


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## McEngr (Jan 19, 2009)

McEngr said:


> The managers are licensed engineers too. They just are trimming up to keep every department. They would rather keep a drafting manager and a surveying manager than to keep a civil PE working on the SE exams. :angry:


By the way: I was working on a two-span 140 foot long prestressed voided slab bridge that was going to cost something like $3Mil. Our fees were crazy and I was barely in budget when the 95% completion drawings were submitted. I was laid off the same day as the 95% submittal date. Sucks. That's alright though, I was able to take on all of the good projects and score almost all of them within budget. There were a few along the two years that I was there that made it tough, but it was mostly an underinflated drafting budget on our AJERA software. That's another long story about bad drafters....


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## SkyWarp (Jan 19, 2009)

The average raise was probably just slightly lower than last year, which isn't much more than a cost of living raise. No layoffs yet, but the new vacancies were not filled.


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## klk (Jan 19, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> Our company is doing quite well as public utilties in the water/wastewater sector are somewhat insulated from the rest of the economy. People still need to shit in toilets and drink water regardless of whether or not the economy sucks.


Same here. I haven't noticed too much of a difference, except that my company is being more strict about overhead expenses.

My husband is an electrical engineer and his company announced that no one would receive raises/promotions this year. Thank goodness he got his grade increase last year.


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## mudpuppy (Jan 19, 2009)

I won't know about raises for another couple months. Will update then.


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## snickerd3 (Jan 19, 2009)

A 1.5% raise should start with this weeks paycheck.


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## Dleg (Jan 19, 2009)

Our state budget is seriously short, and we are looking at 20% pay cuts (every Friday off) starting in a couple of weeks.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 19, 2009)

snickerd3 said:


> A 1.5% raise should start with this weeks paycheck.


Huge.

When I started at my first job, everybody was getting 1.5% "cost of living" raises, but since I had been there a short time, they pro-rated it. I got a 0.75% raise.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 20, 2009)

So far, steady as she goes...


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 20, 2009)

I voted no, everything is the same.

We have a good backlog and are hiring new people. I can get paid OT if I want it. My wife is eyeing a grant that is no sure thing, but would bump her salary up quite a bit if awarded. We are in a comfortable economic standing at this point.

I don't know if its just that we are lucky, or the crunch hasn't hit this area to bad yet.

My retirement funds are taking a big dump, but I can't really touch them for 30 years anyway. I'm putting as much as feasible into our 401k plan here to buy in while prices are low.


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## MGX (Jan 20, 2009)

Been in statis the past year, no raises but no layoffs either. I've been so busy studying for school or knuckling down to get work out the door to hit up my boss, who's rarely in the office, up for a raise.

We've got a small backlog but I'm running out of jobs for the long term future. I'm sure we'll keep busy with smaller jobs for the interim.


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## McEngr (Jan 20, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I voted no, everything is the same.
> We have a good backlog and are hiring new people. I can get paid OT if I want it. My wife is eyeing a grant that is no sure thing, but would bump her salary up quite a bit if awarded. We are in a comfortable economic standing at this point.
> 
> I don't know if its just that we are lucky, or the crunch hasn't hit this area to bad yet.
> ...


VT,

Love your avatar. Do you work in Vermont? It seems the Northwest has been hit pretty hard unless you work in Seattle.


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## tymr (Jan 20, 2009)

We live in an area that was predominantly dependent on the the housing market and developments. Once that tanked, developers put their projects on hold. Then five contractors went under because of the AIG fiasco. I don't think things are as bad as people think they are but it's hard to stop a wild imagination. It reminds me a lot of the fear that was going on in the construction industry after 911. If things don't break loose in the spring, then we may need to move to an area that offers more than building related jobs.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 20, 2009)

McEngr said:


> VT,
> Love your avatar. Do you work in Vermont? It seems the Northwest has been hit pretty hard unless you work in Seattle.


I own a chocolate lab, bht pic isn't of mine though. He's too energetic and I'm too shitty of a photographer to take a good pic like that.

I moved from VT to suburban Boston last summer. Things are pretty busy here from what I gather. As for the Northwest, I don't think things are bad in the Spokane area either. My FIL got an obscene end of year bonus. And the cost of living there is pretty low too.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 20, 2009)

I can already feel the Change and Hope washing over me...can't you?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes I Can.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 20, 2009)

^Well played, sir!!!


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 20, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> Yes I Can.


There's no "I" in "we".


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 20, 2009)

Wii disagree with you.


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## Supe (Jan 20, 2009)

But there is an I in "what a disaster this is going to be."

But here's what I don't get. He's OFFICIALLY President right now. I thought all of our economic problems were supposed to go away now? I mean, the DJIA is down 239 points so far today, shouldn't his inauguration have been enough to thrust the US economy out of the red and back into overwhelming prosperity?


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 20, 2009)

Supebeard said:


> But there is an I in "what a disaster this is going to be."
> 
> But here's what I don't get. He's OFFICIALLY President right now. I thought all of our economic problems were supposed to go away now? I mean, the DJIA is down 239 points so far today, shouldn't his inauguration have been enough to thrust the US economy out of the red and back into overwhelming prosperity?



It's going to take at least a week for him to turn this country around.


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## McEngr (Jan 20, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I own a chocolate lab, bht pic isn't of mine though. He's too energetic and I'm too shitty of a photographer to take a good pic like that.
> I moved from VT to suburban Boston last summer. Things are pretty busy here from what I gather. As for the Northwest, I don't think things are bad in the Spokane area either. My FIL got an obscene end of year bonus. And the cost of living there is pretty low too.


My last job had lots of people coming in only to be let go before me. Some were from the Seattle 'burbs, others from the Northern Idaho tip/Eastern WA area. If Spokane is doing ok, then it would take my wife to convince... not easy. We live in a little Mayberry of a town and the weather is pretty decent in Western Oregon (minus the two-week stretches of rain).


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## IlliniASU (Jan 20, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> Wii disagree with you.


:Locolaugh:


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## engineergurl (Jan 20, 2009)

I didn't vote... we were told that there's no more money and all our contracts won't be renewed, but right now my contract is set for a bit so I am good for a while... keeping our fingers crossed that the govt doesn't decide to get rid of contractors....


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## DVINNY (Jan 20, 2009)

Supebeard said:


> But here's what I don't get. He's OFFICIALLY President right now. I thought all of our economic problems were supposed to go away now? I mean, the DJIA is down 239 points so far today, shouldn't his inauguration have been enough to thrust the US economy out of the red and back into overwhelming prosperity?


Let's look at it like a marriage;

going into it, we are all excited as hell, and can't wait, have high hopes, everything is going to be great.......

Well, when men get married, they all think its going to be happily ever after too.

Go find me 100 married men, and ask them what they think now? LOL


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 20, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> Yes I Can.






VTEnviro said:


> Wii disagree with you.


Yep, I can piss both sides of the aisles off, while humoring the other half, then reverse course in a couple hours. And I once held a public orifice office. I got a future in all of this.

MAYBE WE SHOULD!


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## Road Guy (Jan 20, 2009)

the dow wont budge upward until until Obama shows his hands (with whatever he plans to do) since he hasnt said anything specific about his economic plan, other than change, yes we can, yadayadayada.. Odd that were this far into his election and no one really knows what he plans to do, other than bailouts and the public works stimulous.

An investment in public works wont do much for the market because its only going to benefit state and local governments, half of which will piss away a lot of the money on stupid shit, if there is any spillover effect into the private sectors (outside of construction companies and consultants) its going to take a while (IMO)

If they would drop a lot of the bullshit from the feds in relation to the federal gas tax they could easily speed things up in regard to our infrastructure, but no we need to take money from say fuel tax in Ga, send it to washington where they take a cut and then send it back and then tell you how to spend it?

Free government healthcare isnt going to do much to help the markets either.

Closing gitmo or ending the war in iraq wont help the Nasdaq or the dow.

^ -- (not saying there bad ideas, just saying it aint going to get you a raise  )

He could make this easier by dropping capitol gains taxes, or substantially lowering it. If we can bailout the banks and the auto industry, why not say, okay for one year no capitol gains taxes (its not like the government hasnt been taxing it all along anyways...)

Anyone remember when the democrats chastised Clinton for proposing a $19 Billion stimulous package? And now were looking at $800 Billion?

WTF


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## McEngr (Jan 21, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> He could make this easier by dropping capitol gains taxes, or substantially lowering it. If we can bailout the banks and the auto industry, why not say, okay for one year no capitol gains taxes (its not like the government hasnt been taxing it all along anyways...)
> Anyone remember when the democrats chastised Clinton for proposing a $19 Billion stimulous package? And now were looking at $800 Billion?
> 
> WTF



+1


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm still cheesed off that they willingly gave away 300+Billion (so far) to the banks and it did nothing, as most expected. yet the automakers, WHO MANUFACTURE A PRODUCT, had to wheedle and drive in electric cars for a lousy 14B line of credit.

I'm glad Ford basically said, "F y'all. We don't need it that bad."


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## DVINNY (Jan 21, 2009)

RG, check this proposal out:



> Proposal to Turn the Federal Highway Program Back to the States Would Relieve Traffic Congestionby Ronald D. Utt, Ph.D.
> 
> Backgrounder #1709
> 
> Representative Jeff Flake (R-AZ) has introduced legislation that would devolve, or "turn back," the federal highway and transit programs to the states by allowing them to take over collection of the federal fuel tax and spend those revenues on transportation priorities of their own choosing, not Washington's. The policies embodied in this bill--the Transportation Empowerment Act (H.R. 3113)--would significantly improve the efficiency and effectiveness of surface transportation programs without imposing a tax increase.


http://www.heritage.org/research/smartgrowth/bg1709.cfm


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## udpolo15 (Jan 21, 2009)

where to begin?

as for the bailouts, they suck. First, the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers, the market should. A lot of people point to Lehman as why these big banks can't go bankrupt, but it wasn't the size, but that the bankruptcy was put together over a weekend and most of the Lehman management was focused on trying to get a bailout. If a company had sometime to plan a bankruptcy, you wouldn't see a repeat in the credit markets. Second, they can't even get bailouts right. First and foremost, how can the current management be allowed to stay on when you are asking for billions of dollars because you screwed up your company. Also with banking we are following the Japanese model that produces a long drawn out, but not acutely painful, rather than the Swedish model that is painful but quick.

I think the problem with the economy/state of the country comes down to one fundamental human desire, instant gratification. Consumers have it, investors have it, the corporations have it, and the government has it. Consumers want the flat screen now, they want the big house now, etc. Investors/Business only care about the quarterly earnings, they don't think about the long term sustainability of the business. how many of the Bank CEOs would be around if they had decided to sit out the tremendous profits of the housing boom. How many stupid mergers have been done just to please investors. The government is only concerned with how decision impact the next vote; how can officials "serve" you today, what does the public want to hear today. No regard for what all of this means down the line.

Rant off.


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## Road Guy (Jan 21, 2009)

I heard someone say that the worst thing you can do is give a stimulous to the middle class, they (we) will come to expect it and stop creating ways to develop our own stimulous......


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## Flyer_PE (Jan 21, 2009)

A lot of what is proposed to fix our economy has been tried before. Rather than paraphrase:Thomas Sowell Column 12/23/2008


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 21, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> I heard someone say that the worst thing you can do is give a stimulous to the middle class, they (we) will come to expect it and stop creating ways to develop our own stimulous......


True, it'll be just like welfare. Welfare for the well educated.



Flyer_PE said:


> A lot of what is proposed to fix our economy has been tried before. Rather than paraphrase:Thomas Sowell Column 12/23/2008


And he has a point. However, and I'm just throwing this out there, as a result of government spending, a lot of things got accomplished that probably never would have without federal help, notably roads, dams, and electrification.


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## Flyer_PE (Jan 21, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> However, and I'm just throwing this out there, as a result of government spending, a lot of things got accomplished that probably never would have without federal help, notably roads, dams, and electrification.



I think they likely would have because the demand would still have been there. My opinion as far as electrification goes is to look no further than TVA. Last I checked, they aren't exactly the model of how to run a utility. However, it's impossible to prove a negative so we'll never be able to know what would have happened had Hoover and FDR not done what they did.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 21, 2009)

I was watching this bullshit documentary last night on FDR and one of the ass clown presidential historians claimed that FDR was the best president in history. I guess if your qualifications for the best president in history are someone that was willing to take a giant shit on the Constitution, beginning a ruinous system of entitlements, and ignoring Hitler's rise in Nazi Germany, sure he was great.

And whatever the New Deal accomplished, if that stuff had been needed (which it obviously wasn't) the free market economy could have provided it far cheaper, better, and more efficient.

The failure of Keynesian economics is a fact, and it concerns me greatly that Obama thinks that Keynesian economics are going to work "this time" when that system has never worked before. Read Milton Friedman's Monetary History of the United States. FDR didn't bring about the recovery from the Great Depression, he made it much worse, and much more drawn out.

And by the way, our current health care problems and f-ed up third party system is all attributable to FDR.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 21, 2009)

FDR definitely didn't do the economy a lot of good...


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## tymr (Jan 21, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> the dow wont budge upward until until Obama shows his hands (with whatever he plans to do) since he hasnt said anything specific about his economic plan, other than change, yes we can, yadayadayada.. Odd that were this far into his election and no one really knows what he plans to do, other than bailouts and the public works stimulous.
> 
> It's above his pay grade and there can only be one President at a time. I think Obama Kool-aid must taste a lot like Russian Vodka. Both dull the senses and make you feel all warm inside.


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## dcny (Jan 21, 2009)

It's great to see many free market folks on this board.

The economists of the Austrian School have been predicting our current economic situation for quite some time.

Check it out.

The Bailout Reader


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 21, 2009)

dcny said:


> It's great to see many free market folks on this board.
> The economists of the Austrian School have been predicting our current economic situation for quite some time.
> 
> Check it out.
> ...


Are you the same guy that quoted from Lew Rockwell's blog earlier? I'm probably more free market than most around here. I'm somewhere between Libertarian and Anarcho-capitalist...but I would have voted for Ron Paul had he made it past the primaries.


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## dcny (Jan 22, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Are you the same guy that quoted from Lew Rockwell's blog earlier? I'm probably more free market than most around here. I'm somewhere between Libertarian and Anarcho-capitalist...but I would have voted for Ron Paul had he made it past the primaries.


I did start a thread on here, about Obama's new economic plan, that was from Lew Rockwell's Blog.

Ron Paul got my vote in the primaries.

Dr. Paul sure is getting a lot of face time on the news now that the things he was talking about in the debates are happening.


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## udpolo15 (Jan 22, 2009)

dcny said:


> It's great to see many free market folks on this board.
> The economists of the Austrian School have been predicting our current economic situation for quite some time.
> 
> Check it out.
> ...



There are enough people that are making predictions that you're always going to find someone who made the right prediction. Go back to the dot.com bubble and there were people who made that prediction, but didn't not call the housing bubble. That being said, I do agree with a lot of stuff on that blog.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 22, 2009)

Count me in as a classical liberal and a big fan of Austrian economics. Hayek, Mises, and Friedman are some of my favorites. I'm a member of Fee.org as well. It's a great organization and their publication, The Freeman, is first rate. You won't find anything as well written or thought provoking in the mainstream media or from the talking Republican heads. This may belong in my Atlas Shrugged thread. And to udpolo's comment, any time the government meddles with the economy and manipulates markets we can expect these results.


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## Road Guy (Jan 22, 2009)

just another dumb question, but when we do an $800 Billion "package" where exactly does the money come from? Do we just print it or does the US Governemnt call lendingtree.com and let lenders compete for the loan  ??????


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 22, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> just another dumb question, but when we do an $800 Billion "package" where exactly does the money come from? Do we just print it or does the US Governemnt call lendingtree.com and let lenders compete for the loan  ??????


They fire up the virtual printing presses. All of these transactions occur as balance sheet smoke and mirrors...I'm pretty sure that no paper currency changes hands.

Whether it's real Federal Reserve Notes or imaginary money, the result is the same...the dollars that are in your wallet and bank account are now worth less than they were before.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 22, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> just another dumb question, but when we do an $800 Billion "package" where exactly does the money come from? Do we just print it or does the US Governemnt call lendingtree.com and let lenders compete for the loan  ??????



I'm pretty sure they are just using the ole Amex. Or the federal government's version of Amex. Just force banks to buy the T-bills and then make minimum payments for the next 30 years.


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## ARLORD (Jan 22, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> just another dumb question, but when we do an $800 Billion "package" where exactly does the money come from? Do we just print it or does the US Governemnt call lendingtree.com and let lenders compete for the loan  ??????



They borrow from China, Saudi Arabia, etc or as a last resort they just print it, worthless paper.


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## dcny (Jan 22, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> They fire up the virtual printing presses. All of these transactions occur as balance sheet smoke and mirrors...I'm pretty sure that no paper currency changes hands.
> Whether it's real Federal Reserve Notes or imaginary money, the result is the same...the dollars that are in your wallet and bank account are now worth less than they were before.


I'd say Federal Reserve notes are imaginary money.

Throughout history the free market has chosen gold and silver as money. They are relatively scarce, durable as well as portable. They had value due to their use in making jewelry.

Printed pieces of paper are not scarce, not durable, they have no real value.


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## dcny (Jan 22, 2009)

Is anyone here familiar with Shadowstats.com?







The guy that owns the site claims to be calculating the unemployment rate (among other stats) the way it used to be calculated.

The image above is showing unemployment approaching 18%.

I think it topped out at 25% during the Great Depression.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 22, 2009)

dcny said:


> I'd say Federal Reserve notes are imaginary money.
> Throughout history the free market has chosen gold and silver as money. They are relatively scarce, durable as well as portable. They had value due to their use in making jewelry.
> 
> Printed pieces of paper are not scarce, not durable, they have no real value.


It's value is imaginary, but you can physically hold it.

I have 130+ ounces of silver in my safe, including 2 Liberty Dollars from before they got raided for "counterfeiting".


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 23, 2009)

dcny said:


> The guy that owns the site claims to be calculating the unemployment rate (among other stats) the way it used to be calculated.


I can claim that, too. Doesn't mean it is so.


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## dcny (Jan 23, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I can claim that, too. Doesn't mean it is so.


Uh....yeah...that's why I qualified it as such.


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## McEngr (Jan 23, 2009)

ARLORD said:


> They borrow from China, Saudi Arabia, etc or as a last resort they just print it, worthless paper.


In other words: Let's stimulate the economy so that *we *can say what sectors survive/thrive. Pumping money into parts of our economy in order to stimulate it will only draw inflation except for the markets that they pump the money into. It's basically economic socialism...


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## NCcarguy (Jan 24, 2009)

dcny said:


> I did start a thread on here, about Obama's new economic plan, that was from Lew Rockwell's Blog.
> Ron Paul got my vote in the primaries.
> 
> Dr. Paul sure is getting a lot of face time on the news now that the things he was talking about in the debates are happening.



Come on....Ron Paul???? THE SAME Ron Paul that all the 9/11 was an inside job people were standing with, and he wouldn't deny it????


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## dcny (Jan 24, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> Come on....Ron Paul???? THE SAME Ron Paul that all the 9/11 was an inside job people were standing with, and he wouldn't deny it????


Where do you get your information? Must be the MSM. They never missed an opportunity to ignore or ridicule Dr. Paul during the campaign.

What I heard Congressman Paul say was there were many mistakes made by our government. Information was not shared between agencies. He did not feel that the government should be investigating itself to determine where mistakes were made.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul200.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihCP3cfS88E


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## benbo (Jan 24, 2009)

dcny said:


> Where do you get your information? Must be the MSM. They never missed an opportunity to ignore or ridicule Dr. Paul during the campaign.
> What I heard Congressman Paul say was there were many mistakes made by our government. Information was not shared between agencies. He did not feel that the government should be investigating itself to determine where mistakes were made.
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul200.html
> ...


I like a lot of things about Dr. Paul, but some things I don't.

Ron Paul is not a "Truther" but he made frequent appearances on the Alex Jones show. That, along with the perception that he blamed 9-11 on US foreign policy (from that debate where Rudy called him out), led to people thinking that. Although I completely disagree with his notion that US foreign policy is to blame for the 9-11 attack except very tangentially (especially after reading the Looming Tower), at least that is an arguable position. Al Qaeda certainly used US presence in Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian situation as an excuse, but I don't believe that was their real underlying rationale.

But, like a lot of conspiracy theories, The Truther position is sort of nutty to me. I accept the various studies, including the Popular Mechanics analysis.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 24, 2009)

benbo said:


> I like a lot of things about Dr. Paul, but some things I don't.
> Ron Paul is not a "Truther" but he made frequent appearances on the Alex Jones show. That, along with the perception that he blamed 9-11 on US foreign policy (from that debate where Rudy called him out), led to people thinking that. Although I completely disagree with his notion that US foreign policy is to blame for the 9-11 attack except very tangentially (especially after reading the Looming Tower), at least that is an arguable position. Al Qaeda certainly used US presence in Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian situation as an excuse, but I don't believe that was their real underlying rationale.
> 
> But, like a lot of conspiracy theories, The Truther position is sort of nutty to me. I accept the various studies, including the Popular Mechanics analysis.


So you don't think that US foreign policy, namely our support of Israel vs. the Palestinians, had anything to do with our low reputation with radical Muslims? What, then, do you propose as an alternative, Mr. Giuliani? That debate when Rudy blew a gasket removed any respect I had for that idiot. So, do you think that Muslims are just jealous of our freedoms, as Mr. Bush proposed?


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## benbo (Jan 24, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> So you don't think that US foreign policy, namely our support of Israel vs. the Palestinians, had anything to do with our low reputation with radical Muslims? What, then, do you propose as an alternative, Mr. Giuliani? That debate when Rudy blew a gasket removed any respect I had for that idiot. So, do you think that Muslims are just jealous of our freedoms, as Mr. Bush proposed?


/Arguing with you is tiresome so this is it. I at least have a nuanced opinion on things. I'll explain what I base my thoughts on. I doubt you're interested but I'll do it once.

First of all, do you even read what people write? I said it was arguable and tangentially relevant, but I still believe that radical Islam has the ultimate goal of spreading Sharia law throughout the world. Why? Because that's what they say. And that's what they are doing - in Africa, Arabia, Southeast Asia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Not to mention the growth of this ideology in Europe, where they riot if you draw a cartoon about Mohammed.

Radical Islam and the roots of Al Qaeda date back to the writings of Sayyid Qutb in the late 1940s. He explicitly stated that he hated our decandence and way of life. Ayman Al Zawahiri was an early follower of his, and agreed with this. This predates the end of the British mandate or the UN separation and certainly predates any Isreali expansion or concern about Palestinians. Osama Bin Laden came late to even worrying one whit about the Palestinians. His main beef was always our presence on the Arabian Peninsula. But the Radical Islamic thought predates that, because we didn't have any interest in the Arabian Peninsula until we wanted oil from it.

Do you believe the main venom of radical Islam is directed at us? The people they really hate are the secular leaders of Muslim countries, whom they consider real traitors. When was the last significant peace agreement vis a vis Isreal? Probably Camp David, and you see how that worked out for Sadat. Not to mention that it was right around that time they took our hostages in Iran.

Do we do everything perfectly in foreign affairs? Obviously not. If we pull completely out of the world, and isolate, and let them overrun and destroy Isreal will that end the goals of these groups? I don't think so.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 25, 2009)

benbo said:


> Radical Islam and the roots of Al Qaeda date back to the writings of Sayyid Qutb in the late 1940s. He explicitly stated that he hated our decandence and way of life. Ayman Al Zawahiri was an early follower of his, and agreed with this. This predates the end of the British mandate or the UN separation and certainly predates any Isreali expansion or concern about Palestinians. Osama Bin Laden came late to even worrying one whit about the Palestinians. His main beef was always our presence on the Arabian Peninsula. But the Radical Islamic thought predates that, because we didn't have any interest in the Arabian Peninsula until we wanted oil from it.


I'm pretty sure that your mention of Qutb did more to prove my point than your own. Qutb published his first work of religious social criticism in 1949 while he was in the US attending the University of Northern Colorado (from 1948 to 1950). That happens to be after the end of the British Mandate, after the declaration of independence by Israel, and after Truman supported the Zionist state (which led to over 800,000 Muslim refugees having to flee the area). I don't dispute that the Western lifestyle is in direct violation of the Muslim way of life, and that fact gives the radicals lots of propaganda ammunition to recruit more Jihadis. But even given your definition of the roots of the radical Islam movement, I think that US foreign policy is the direct cause. Over the years, we haven't helped the situation by supplying Israel with weapons, intelligent, and money while attacking primarily Muslim countries for various purposes.



benbo said:


> On second thought, I'm 100% wrong. It's all our fault. Well, us and those Jews.


And arguing with _me_ is tiresome.


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## benbo (Jan 25, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> And arguing with _me_ is tiresome.


I decided to delete a couple of my posts because they probably weren't fair representations of your position. I still believe Qutb's initial fundamentalist thought had almost nothing to do with Palestine, mainly to do with the decadence, particularly sexual, that he experienced in the US, and happened before or very early in the history of the Jewish state. I don't see how to prove it one way or the other.

I was going to post another long opinion, but who cares.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 25, 2009)

benbo said:


> I decided to delete a couple of my posts because they probably weren't fair representations of your position. I still believe Qutb's initial fundamentalist thought had almost nothing to do with Palestine, mainly to do with the decadence, particularly sexual, that he experienced in the US, and happened before or very early in the history of the Jewish state. I don't see how to prove it one way or the other.
> I was going to post another long opinion, but who cares.


I enjoy debating with you, but you are a little quick to resort to personal attacks instead of just sticking to facts.

I had never heard of Qutb until you made your point, so it forced me to do some research to dispute you. I just focused on dates when he wrote his papers, and it seemed to support my position that it had more to do with Palestine/Israel than it did with western decadence.


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## NCcarguy (Jan 25, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> So you don't think that US foreign policy, namely our support of Israel vs. the Palestinians, had anything to do with our low reputation with radical Muslims? What, then, do you propose as an alternative, Mr. Giuliani? That debate when Rudy blew a gasket removed any respect I had for that idiot. So, do you think that Muslims are just jealous of our freedoms, as Mr. Bush proposed?



ACTUALLY....I believe the RADICAL muslims believe they are to wage Jihad against anyone that does not believe like they do. And what better stage than to continually come after us, and Isreal??? They will never stop, and thinking that being nice to them will only lead to more American deaths! President Bush knows EXACTLY why they do what they do, but what else is he supposed to say to a media that bashes him on everything he does say? I for one am actually glad Obama was elected, it'll once again prove the point I just made.....aren't we now a loving nation that looks after everyone, and wouldn't hurt a fly? wonder how long that will take for us to get attacked again?


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## benbo (Jan 25, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I enjoy debating with you, but you are a little quick to resort to personal attacks instead of just sticking to facts.


Fair point. It's not an effective style.


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## DVINNY (Jan 26, 2009)

> So you don't think that US foreign policy, namely our support of Israel vs. the Palestinians, had anything to do with our low reputation with radical Muslims?


To blame us for the way those radicals wage Jihad is F'IN STUPID. Plain and simple.

Now, if we had Americans strapping bomber jackets on, walking into muslim coffee shops and blowing themselves and everyone around them up in the name of democracy, I'd agree. We don't.

So YES, they're f'ckin nuts. It's not our fault. PERIOD.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 26, 2009)

DVINNY said:


> To blame us for the way those radicals wage Jihad is F'IN STUPID. Plain and simple.
> Now, if we had Americans strapping bomber jackets on, walking into muslim coffee shops and blowing themselves and everyone around them up in the name of democracy, I'd agree. We don't.
> 
> So YES, they're f'ckin nuts. It's not our fault. PERIOD.


Saying it over and over again doesn't make it so. My government doesn't represent me, but it sure as hell does a lot of stuff I don't like in my name. You may not like it, but the US government makes a lot of stupid decisions that have consequences that you may not like...and our foreign policy did and does have a significant impact on radical Muslims.


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## DVINNY (Jan 26, 2009)

Then move over there with Borat already.


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## udpolo15 (Jan 26, 2009)

I agree that there are a lot of radical that are crazy and will try to destroy anyone that doesn't agree with them. However,

I also believe that our government's actions have created an environment that the radicals are able to gain popular support.

We have our share of anti government radical's who want to destroy the gov't. The majority of us just ignore them and they never really gain any traction. However, if the government started acting in certain ways towards them (raids, locking them in jail without trail), their support would grow.

BTW, did any see 60 minutes last night? The Israelis have their fair share of radicals.


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## dcny (Jan 26, 2009)

benbo said:


> I like a lot of things about Dr. Paul, but some things I don't.
> Ron Paul is not a "Truther" but he made frequent appearances on the Alex Jones show. That, along with the perception that he blamed 9-11 on US foreign policy (from that debate where Rudy called him out), led to people thinking that. Although I completely disagree with his notion that US foreign policy is to blame for the 9-11 attack except very tangentially (especially after reading the Looming Tower), at least that is an arguable position. Al Qaeda certainly used US presence in Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian situation as an excuse, but I don't believe that was their real underlying rationale.
> 
> But, like a lot of conspiracy theories, The Truther position is sort of nutty to me. I accept the various studies, including the Popular Mechanics analysis.


I don't listen to the Alex Jones show so I'm not familiar with the guests that frequent his show. I have heard Alex Jones interview Ron Paul a couple of time on YouTube though.

As for Rudy calling out Ron Paul in that debate, it was more like Rudy showing his ignorance.

Have you seen the video put out by the firefighters union regarding Rudy and the radios his administration supplied for the firefighters?


Rudy is despicable. His radios didn't work. Then he had the gall to testify that the firefighters didn't leave the tower because they wanted to stand their ground. Bullshit Rudy. They couldn't hear the order. What firefighter would want to go down with a building rather than go home to his family? What firefighter would rather go down with a building than see his kids grow up?

Ron Paul has stated unequivocally that he does not support the positions of the "9/11 Truthers". He doesn't choose his supporters they choose him.

Ron Paul submitted legislation to take care of Osama bin Laden and al queda in a Constitutional manner that would not have played into the bin Laden plan of destroying our economy. Congressman Paul submitted legislation for Congress to issue letters of Marque and Reprisal.

http://www.progress.org/fold232.htm

Billions, perhaps trillions, of dollars and thousands of American lives would not have been lost if this legislation had been enacted.

Congressman Paul was spot on with his plan to shut down the overseas empire, bring the troops home and have them secure our borders and ports.


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## McEngr (Jan 26, 2009)

udpolo15 said:


> BTW, did any see 60 minutes last night? The Israelis have their fair share of radicals.


Not really when compared to the other side. Exaggeration.


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## Dleg (Feb 2, 2009)

dcny said:


> Ron Paul submitted legislation to take care of Osama bin Laden and al queda in a Constitutional manner that would not have played into the bin Laden plan of destroying our economy. Congressman Paul submitted legislation for Congress to issue letters of Marque and Reprisal.
> http://www.progress.org/fold232.htm
> 
> Billions, perhaps trillions, of dollars and thousands of American lives would not have been lost if this legislation had been enacted.
> ...


Yeah, that sounds like a GREAT plan:



> ... Private U.S. citizens would then be able to hunt down, attack and collect assets from terrorists who have or are planning to commit hostile acts against the U.S. and its citizens.


:screwloose:


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## csb (Feb 4, 2009)

Just to talk about the original topic...a branch of a larger engineering firm was shut down here in town last week. Kind of a shock.


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## Supe (Feb 4, 2009)

We've got permit issues on one of our jobs still looming in court, and two more of our power jobs are up in the air as to whether the buyer will back out, even though construction is already under way at both sites.


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## Chucktown PE (Feb 12, 2009)

Is there any way to change my vote?


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## TXengrChickPE (Feb 12, 2009)

^ as far as I know, no. did something happen with your job/company?


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## Chucktown PE (Feb 12, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> ^ as far as I know, no. did something happen with your job/company?



Job is still okay but as of Friday we're all on salary freezes (10,000 of us). Which really sucks because I had a good review this year so I was thinking I'd be in line for a 5-7% raise. Hopefully they are still planning on paying out bonuses but I doubt it.


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## TXengrChickPE (Feb 12, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> Job is still okay but as of Friday we're all on salary freezes (10,000 of us). Which really sucks because I had a good review this year so I was thinking I'd be in line for a 5-7% raise. Hopefully they are still planning on paying out bonuses but I doubt it.


I had a good review this year too... any other year it would have gotten me a pretty nice raise. No raises or bonuses this year. But, seeing as how this time last year my department had 8 engineers and now we've got two... I'm just happy to still have a job.


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## Chucktown PE (Feb 12, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> I had a good review this year too... any other year it would have gotten me a pretty nice raise. No raises or bonuses this year. But, seeing as how this time last year my department had 8 engineers and now we've got two... I'm just happy to still have a job.



That speaks very highly of you TX. I'm glad to hear your spamming hasn't gotten in they way of your job performance.

Our division hasn't had major layoffs yet but I suspect they're coming.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 12, 2009)

Our newly sworn in Gov asked all state agencies this week to cut their budgets by 1% to help out with the void blago created


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## mudpuppy (Feb 16, 2009)

Finally got word today that there will be raises at my company this year. The merit budget is 3.3%. I am hoping this will put me in the 4-4.5% range, but I won't know until the end of March.


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## rudy (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm surprised at the 54% "Everything the same" results. In the semiconductor industry, we've had a downturn since 2000 that we really never came out of. We've been going thru lay-offs on-and-off since then. In fact, if you're in Texas here's a good website from the Texas Workforce Commission of upcoming layoffs for Texas companies:

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/svcs/jtpa/warn.html

Your employer won't tell you about upcoming layoffs... due to morale. But the website above will give you some warning.

This year we got pay cuts. We're going to be off (no pay) for one week in the first quarter and another week in the second quarter. At least we'll be off during that time, unlike working the same hours, with a paycut. The company will no longer be matching 401k contributions. They've reduced the amount of vacation time we can carry over to the next year. No bonuses and no raises. People are leaving or being layed off, but not replaced. So those of us left behind are taking on additional responsibilities.

All in all, I'd rather be in this situation, with a job, unlike other companies whose employees are on furlough, with no pay, for who knows how long.


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## maryannette (Feb 17, 2009)

Good luck, rudy. I didn't know things were that bad in your industry. Hope you keep your head above water.


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## rudy (Feb 17, 2009)

Thank you mary. It's all good. Even as bad as it looks ($ lost last year in bad business venture and job insecurity), God has and continues to bless us. I have a great family, health, and you guys.

Another example of His blessings... Three years ago when the company thought we were in the up swing and thought we were coming out of the bad cycle, my boss put me up for a huge award that is spread out over four years. I got my first installment last year (hmmm.... as i type this.... just realized...... the coincidence.... last year we lost $ in that failed business... that bonus came at a good time). I will get my second installment this year (just in time to cover the mandatory time off without pay). Fortunately, this bonus was awarded years before the announcement of no bonuses, so this year's and future installments are not affected. I am truly blessed.


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## SPSUEngineer (May 6, 2009)

I work in commercial site development in Georgia. Its been hell since november last year. We've lost approximately 45% of our staff since january. No raises last year and 10% pay cut this year. On a good note we are getting some new projects in the door this month. I hope it keeps up and we've seen the bottom. In any event, it will be a rough 2009 in Atlanta, GA. I just thank my lucky stars I'm still employed at this point and I don't mind the pay cuts as long as I can continue to put food on the table.

I have many friends out of work in the same field. Many have very good degrees from major universities and years of experience.


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 11, 2009)

I'm not sure how to answer this question. I haven't received a raise, but I've only been here for 13 months. I'm not sure how raises work here. My last company did a yearly review in June and raises were applied in July. I don't think we have a set system. Coworkers have told me that you have to go ask for a raise or will never get one. Even a 3% cost of living one. I was debating on when I should go ask, before or after results.


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## dastuff (May 11, 2009)

I'm not sure about the raise yet... But things seem to be preceding normally enough in the office. I do believe most of the bonus will be cut.

We did lay off one principal and basically closed that division of the company but I'm not 100% sure that was tied to the recession.

I will be expecting a raise come july since i did get my PE last october.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 11, 2009)

We just found out today that they are going to pay out 1st quarter bonuses. We are below our sales goals for the year, but we are still remaining profitable.


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## TouchDown (May 12, 2009)

I'm in manufacturing - 7 or 8 years ago, the company pulled back 7-10% of your paycheck and called it "at risk". You only get it if your division makes it's set goals. We're not even close to making the goals, so that's -10% for me right there...

In addition, they announced in January, that there would be no raises this year.

Just glad to have a job at this point. Hope it stays that way. August / September is usually when my company does cuts and we already know that my plant is losing a business at the end of August - so the clock is ticking. Not a comfortable feeling, being "overhead"...


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> I'm not sure how to answer this question. I haven't received a raise, but I've only been here for 13 months. I'm not sure how raises work here. My last company did a yearly review in June and raises were applied in July. I don't think we have a set system. Coworkers have told me that you have to go ask for a raise or will never get one. Even a 3% cost of living one. I was debating on when I should go ask, before or after results.


How large is your company - human resources *SHOULD* have some formula to apply if your company is of any notable size. I would start with HR and then move onto your supervisor since your raise/merit should be tied with performance evaluation.

Don't be afraid to ask questions - it is in a company's nature to run someone over if they don't put up a fight. Psychology says if you roll over once .. you will continue to roll over. It is an unfortunate truth in today's working world.



dastuff said:


> I will be expecting a raise come july since i did get my PE last october.


Pay raises are generally linked to increased job responsibility/duties - try to link the raise with increased performance/expectations not just because you obtained your P.E. license.



wilheldp_PE said:


> We just found out today that they are going to pay out 1st quarter bonuses. We are below our sales goals for the year, but we are still remaining profitable.


Congrats. 



TouchDown said:


> I'm in manufacturing - 7 or 8 years ago, the company pulled back 7-10% of your paycheck and called it "at risk". You only get it if your division makes it's set goals. We're not even close to making the goals, so that's -10% for me right there...


Ugh ... unfortunately I think MANY more companies will be moving towards this type of system since it makes sense from an operating perspective. There are pros and cons .. but as you indicate .. more cons for YOU since you are in a business sector that just isn't doing well regardless of how YOU perform.



TouchDown said:


> In addition, they announced in January, that there would be no raises this year.
> Just glad to have a job at this point. Hope it stays that way. August / September is usually when my company does cuts and we already know that my plant is losing a business at the end of August - so the clock is ticking. Not a comfortable feeling, being "overhead"...


I hope it gets better for you .. and so many others of us that are getting pinched in these trying times. 

JR


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## wvgirl14 (May 12, 2009)

No raises for us either. I was the last one to get my evaluation and by then the coal market had went with the economy. I was the only one to not get a raise since my eval was pushed back from October to February. My bosses seemed to unload in my eval. They said I was doing a great job and they appreciated me, but things were going to get bad, that we were just seeing the start, and it would last awhile, and that people were oing to end up in bread lines. Talk about depressing. Then last week they sent out a memo stating no annual raises and hopefully no laid offs but they didn't know what would happen. They also tried to justify some new equipment they bought. They laid off two at our sister office, which is the first ever for our 20 yr old company. I just hope the coal market picks up, so our permitting will and I can keep my jpb.


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## TXengrChickPE (May 13, 2009)

rudy said:


> I'm surprised at the 54% "Everything the same" results. In the semiconductor industry, we've had a downturn since 2000 that we really never came out of. We've been going thru lay-offs on-and-off since then. In fact, if you're in Texas here's a good website from the Texas Workforce Commission of upcoming layoffs for Texas companies:http://www.twc.state.tx.us/svcs/jtpa/warn.html
> 
> Your employer won't tell you about upcoming layoffs... due to morale. But the website above will give you some warning.


That's no where near a complete list... I know lots of people (including myself) who were laid off in TX and our companies are not on the list. I think maybe that list is only the companies who file info w/ unemployment before they lay people off... which makes things easier for their HR people (they only have to fill out one form for everyone rather than individual forms for each employee). Most companies don't bother.

As for the results of this poll... it started in January. At that point, I probably voted "everything the same". Now, I can't change it.


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## SuperAlpha (May 15, 2009)

only change was no raises and no 401k matching anymore


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 26, 2009)

jregieng said:


> How large is your company - human resources *SHOULD* have some formula to apply if your company is of any notable size. I would start with HR and then move onto your supervisor since your raise/merit should be tied with performance evaluation.
> Don't be afraid to ask questions - it is in a company's nature to run someone over if they don't put up a fight. Psychology says if you roll over once .. you will continue to roll over. It is an unfortunate truth in today's working world.


We are a small company. About 30 employees. We don't even have a company manual. Many people have requested they do one, but they say it's in the works. I hear it's been in the works for over 2 years. Many employees (me included) have asked for yearly reviews. They are working on that too.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2009)

You Load 16 Tons and What Do You Get?

Of course, you get more than just three households of electricity from 16 tons of coal. Here are some other approximate results from 16 tons of coal that might interest you:



> * Three hours of labor: The U.S. coal mining industry directly employs over 80,000 people. The production rate for each employee is a little over six tons per labor hour, so 16 tons represents less than three hours of labor.
> * 37 tons of carbon dioxide: Carbon dioxide emissions average about 2.3 pounds per kWh delivered. For 16 tons of coal representing 32,000 kWh of electricity delivered, that's 74,000 pounds (or 37 tons) of carbon dioxide produced. Note that there will be variation in this number depending on the carbon content of coal and electric losses assumed from the generator to delivery. The reason a ton of coal produces multiple tons of carbon dioxide is because during combustion the carbon atom (with an atomic weight of 12) unites with two oxygen atoms (with an atomic weight of 16) to form carbon dioxide, having an atomic weight of 44. To give you perspective on volume, 5 tons of carbon dioxide would occupy an Olympic size swimming pool. Despite such voluminous emissions, the carbon dioxide content in air near the earth's surface is less than 0.04 percent.
> 
> * Two tons of fly ash. U.S. coal fired power plants produce about 120 million tons of ash, while burning just over one billion tons of coal annually, or roughly 1.2 tons of fly ash is produced per 10 tons of coal. Over 40 percent of resulting fly ash is put to a beneficial use such as concrete applications, and the fly ash consists largely of aluminum, silicon, iron, and carbonate oxides.
> ...


JR


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## chaosiscash (Jun 2, 2009)

^^ And sometimes that fly ash is spilled everywhere and acres and acres of land are ruined.

&lt;-------- Lives in East TN


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## squishles10 (Jun 3, 2009)

ive been laid off 3 times in 2 states. can i vote more than once? frankly im tired of this cuz its screwing up my resume big time.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 4, 2009)

Ouch. In what period of time?

That can be sticky when updating the resume.


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## squishles10 (Jun 4, 2009)

feb 2007, june 2008, feb 2009. i can explain it away somewhat but yeah, it looks bad. the first one was in california right as the housing market tanked. second was a small firm in tx that overhired as the economy was iffy and i was the newest person, and the last one was when everyone got laid off. but yeah, it blows. this is the longest ive been unemployed though- im getting bored.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 5, 2009)

I was unemployed for two years. Looking back, I don't know how I did it. yeah, it was boring.


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## squishles10 (Jun 7, 2009)

luckily the hubby has sporadic schedule and is home a lot, and his coworkers are off on different days than him so i hang with them too. and unfortunately there are a lot of unemployed folks around here to hang out with which also helps. plus, hopefully bschool in a few months. prob with that is they require you to be employed full time. sheesh. i talked them down from that requirement, and hopefully that MS and extra years of experience make up for it. just cant win...


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## Slugger926 (Jun 30, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> luckily the hubby has sporadic schedule and is home a lot, and his coworkers are off on different days than him so i hang with them too. and unfortunately there are a lot of unemployed folks around here to hang out with which also helps. plus, hopefully bschool in a few months. prob with that is they require you to be employed full time. sheesh. i talked them down from that requirement, and hopefully that MS and extra years of experience make up for it. just cant win...


Is there some niche areas that you can go out and solicit work for, or do on your own? Flood Plain evaluations for houses, environmental impact studies for developments?

I have a friend's dad that is handing over his environmental impact business to me and his son at no cost as he is retiring. His son doesn't have a PE, so that is why I am getting half of it. They get all of their business by knowing where to look on government websites, and regular engineering firms don't want to touch the work.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

I think things are beginning to look up. I just got the stement for my IRA and it is up 16% for this quarter.

Yea!


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 13, 2009)

We were profitable for the month and quarter. We get quarterly bonuses on Aug. 21.


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## benbo (Jul 13, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I think things are beginning to look up. I just got the stement for my IRA and it is up 16% for this quarter.
> Yea!


What is this invested in? Is it a mutual fund?


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## benbo (Jul 13, 2009)

Almost everyone else in the state has 3 furlough days, and some of that will probably eventually hit me. But my salary has tripled in the past 6 years (due to PE and promotions) so I can't complain much. Of course, I am just about at the same level I was when I left my last job in the semiconductor business.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

benbo said:


> What is this invested in? Is it a mutual fund?


S&amp;P 500 indexed fund.


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## benbo (Jul 13, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> S&amp;P 500 indexed fund.


I forgot the S&amp;P was up that much, because in the past couple weeks it's been tanking. Except today.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 13, 2009)

McEngr said:


> VT,
> Love your avatar. Do you work in Vermont? It seems the Northwest has been hit pretty hard unless you work in Seattle.


I voted no as well, and am in Portland, Oregon lucky for me the consulting firm I have been with for about 1 1/2 years is heavy into the fuel terminals and pipelines. We have been either pretty steady or overloaded and have added a few people here and there. My last employer was mostly into Paper Mills and we have hired a handful of their old employees.

We did have a couple layoffs, but they were really firings for lack of production.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 13, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> ive been laid off 3 times in 2 states. can i vote more than once? frankly im tired of this cuz its screwing up my resume big time.


What field are you in?

I doubt it will really hurt your resume long term. Once we are out of this thing, HR will look at your unemployment and go "Oh yeah the 08-09 Recession"


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 13, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> I doubt it will really hurt your resume long term. Once we are out of this thing, HR will look at your unemployment and go "Oh yeah the 08-09 Recession"


Well, I'm not sure I agree. I didn't get, "Oh, yeah..recession and 9/11" responses. Just, "Can you explain this lapse?"


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## Katiebug (Jul 13, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> I doubt it will really hurt your resume long term. Once we are out of this thing, HR will look at your unemployment and go "Oh yeah the 08-09 Recession"


This is what friends who are in HR tell me. This recession is so wonky that very educated, qualified, experienced people are taking jobs they never expected to have to take - simply to keep their family afloat. Having Starbucks or a retail job on one's resume isn't an automatic kiss of death at the moment. It's pretty straightforward to explain the situation.

I am pleased to say that after 9 loooong months of unemployment and job hunting, Mr. Bug is again gainfully employed. It's a bit less money than we were hoping for but at this point we're just thrilled that he's working. There is hope!


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## snickerd3 (Jul 13, 2009)

Katiebug said:


> I am pleased to say that after 9 loooong months of unemployment and job hunting, Mr. Bug is again gainfully employed. It's a bit less money than we were hoping for but at this point we're just thrilled that he's working. There is hope!


Awesome news!


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## Supe (Jul 13, 2009)

Congrats to Mr. Bug!


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 13, 2009)

Katiebug said:


> ...I am pleased to say that after 9 loooong months of unemployment and job hunting, Mr. Bug is again gainfully employed. It's a bit less money than we were hoping for but at this point we're just thrilled that he's working. There is hope!


That's great news, Katie! Tell him congrats!


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 13, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Well, I'm not sure I agree. I didn't get, "Oh, yeah..recession and 9/11" responses. Just, "Can you explain this lapse?"


That seems to be your typical response to my posts.

The 9/11 recession, wasn't nearly as deep, long lasting, and widespread as our current one. I graduated in 02' and I still had a couple of offers to pick from. I doubt I would have had a good of luck if I had graduated in 2009.


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## Paul S (Jul 13, 2009)

Congrats Katie and Mr. Bug!!


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## Ble_PE (Jul 14, 2009)

Congrats to Mr. Bug!!

My company has laid off a few people in my office this year, but they actively try to find you a position somewhere since I work for a large, multi-national corporation. Several people have taken field assignments to keep from getting laid off. I told my wife that if it came down to it, that's what I would do. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.


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## TouchDown (Jul 14, 2009)

Good news Bugs!!! Congrats and I hope the good news will continue for the rest still looking!


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 14, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> That seems to be your typical response to my posts.


Huh?



D. Kephart said:


> The 9/11 recession, wasn't nearly as deep, long lasting, and widespread as our current one. I graduated in 02' and I still had a couple of offers to pick from. I doubt I would have had a good of luck if I had graduated in 2009.


I didn't say it was worse, what I'm saying is HR isn't that forgiving of gaps, in my experience.

Now, if you get the chance to explain it in the interview, its an entirely different thing.

Katie, pass my congrats on to Mr. Bug!!


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

Katiebug said:


> I am pleased to say that after 9 loooong months of unemployment and job hunting, Mr. Bug is again gainfully employed. It's a bit less money than we were hoping for but at this point we're just thrilled that he's working. There is hope!


Congrats to Mr. Bug!!! :multiplespotting: :multiplespotting:



ble31980 said:


> My company has laid off a few people in my office this year, but they actively try to find you a position somewhere since I work for a large, multi-national corporation. Several people have taken field assignments to keep from getting laid off. I told my wife that if it came down to it, that's what I would do. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.


Wow, that would hurt especially with the baby coming along but it's good that you are talking about it now. I think one of the most stressful things that arises from a layoff is when Plan B isn't really too clear between couples. As long as you are both in agreement with what is best ... it all works out in the end. 

JR


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 16, 2009)

Just got my 401(k) and 457 statements. They're looking pretty healthy, too. Lucky for me, I started the program as the market bottomed out.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Just got my 401(k) and 457 statements. They're looking pretty healthy, too. Lucky for me, I started the program as the market bottomed out.


I need to take a look at my govt pension (investement plan) to see if it has improved and then roll it over. My work 401(k) should be doing okay since I started it in March.

One thing I am concerned about are things like this article presented today in Yahoo Finance: Nine Reasons the Economy is Not Getting Better

The article is lengthy but well-considered and balanced in writing. Sadly, it makes sense and is backed up with numbers ... and if you recall Akin's First Law of Aircraft Design: "Engineering is done with numbers. Analysis without numbers is an opinion, at best."

I wonder what will happen when the gains made by Stimulus propping fall ... and there isn't a second wind to pick things back up?

JR


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## TouchDown (Jul 16, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Just got my 401(k) and 457 statements. They're looking pretty healthy, too. Lucky for me, I started the program as the market bottomed out.


Good time to get in the program for sure.

My statements... well, let's just say at this rate, with 3 kids, weddings, and college. I'm working until I'm dead.



jregieng said:


> The article is lengthy but well-considered and balanced in writing. Sadly, it makes sense and is backed up with numbers ... and if you recall Akin's First Law of Aircraft Design: "Engineering is done with numbers. Analysis without numbers is an opinion, at best."
> I wonder what will happen when the gains made by Stimulus propping fall ... and there isn't a second wind to pick things back up?
> 
> JR


A guy from work has been saying that stimulus spending didn't work for Japan when they had a crash a few years ago, it just lengthened and made the economy suffer for a longer period, even if it didn't get as bad as it could have without the stimulus for a small period.

So, instead of just letting things completely implode and start over (thought is that it would be quicker), but putting the stimulus in place, it will for a short period assist in softening the blow, but might make the economic problem last 2X as long? Dunno - One of my "C"s in college was in economics. I think a lot of the economists today can look at history and attempt to draw conclusions from numbers... but the market today with it being a TRUE world economy, makes this situation completely more complex than any other situation we've encountered (my opinion).


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 16, 2009)

Econ wasn't my thing in school. Since I don't believe the news, I just go on what I see around me. Investment plans are kicking into high gear, and I do see more buildings beginning to go up. Housing never was that nuts here, but they did stay steady, maybe drop a bit in pricier suburbs. They are now going up again.

Banks seem to have stabilized and GM and Chrysler are out of bankruptcy and are, hopefully, better able to deal with the current atmosphere.

Seems to me to be getting better.


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## Ble_PE (Jul 16, 2009)

jregieng said:


> Wow, that would hurt especially with the baby coming along but it's good that you are talking about it now. I think one of the most stressful things that arises from a layoff is when Plan B isn't really too clear between couples. As long as you are both in agreement with what is best ... it all works out in the end.
> JR


Yea, I'm hoping that some of our potenial jobs goes through and I don't have to resort to that, but the good thing is she is with me no matter what. She's a great wife, that's for sure!


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## udpolo15 (Jul 23, 2009)

We just had a second round of layoffs. It was about 2% the first time back in March and about 6% this time around.

Not a fun day to be the boss. Someone of the folks had been around for awhile.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2009)

^^^^ Ouch.

Hopefully it starts to recover .... soon ... for everyone!!!

JR


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## TouchDown (Jul 23, 2009)

udpolo15 said:


> We just had a second round of layoffs. It was about 2% the first time back in March and about 6% this time around.
> 
> Not a fun day to be the boss. Someone of the folks had been around for awhile.


That really sucks. Don't remember what sector you're in, but it really doesn't matter right now.

You can hear crickets in our plant. Avg. Seniority is 25 YOS in our plant. I can't imaging using seniority to layoff people and our next round (probably in September) will include 25 year people. That's insane.

Agree with JR - hope things ease up a bit, but we might just be getting started. Sorry udpolo.


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## udpolo15 (Jul 23, 2009)

Just to clarify - I was not let go (thankfully).

I just found out that they were mandated from the top, not a business unit decision. Things have started to stabilized, but our margins are still down. Guess we had to do something, but I always thought that one of the benefits to being private was that the company is more willing to weather the storm together.


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## squishles10 (Jul 23, 2009)

ive pretty much resigned myself to the fact that m not working until sometime next year. ive decided to volunteer for now to give myself something to do. since my unemployment goes for another 12 months we're seriously considering having kids but we werent planning on it for another couple of years so we're not sure if thats what we really want to do. pretty much anything to entertain myself at this point (harry potter is my current entertainment


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 24, 2009)

How long does unemployment last now? It was 6 months when I got laid off, but they extended it to nine months after 9/11.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 24, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> How long does unemployment last now? It was 6 months when I got laid off, but they extended it to nine months after 9/11.


Depends on the state you live in.

In NY

Since the average unemployment rate in New York State is now above 8%, an additional 7 weeks of Extended Benefits have been added, for a total of 20 weeks. This is in addition to the 26 weeks of regular benefits and the 33 weeks of Emergency Benefits. Extended Benefits may be claimed on this website in the usual manner. http://www.labor.state.ny.us/ui/claimantin...edBenefits.shtm


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 24, 2009)

My job has been OK, and I'm unionized so pay increases were negotiated some time back - we have 3 or 4 year contracts. It's still possible positions will be cut for the next budget year, but salaries won't be, unless people are demoted.

My husband has had his job at risk for a few months...his employer just ditched 25% of their staff. It looks like they're done with cuts for awhile now...and we can look at some discretionary spending.

So, although I answered that things have stayed the same, there's been quite a bit of anxiety over potential layoffs in my household.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 24, 2009)

Our CEO recently mentioned the possibility of a 10% across the board pay cut for all staff on his blog. They said that they didn't see the need for it now but would keep it as an option. I take that to mean that we will not get raises again next year or we will be getting pay cuts. I would love to take the dipshit in the corporate communications that thought this was a good thing to mention on a blog. MORONS. They also notified us that we weren't getting raises by email at 4:00 on a Friday which was also the day we were supposed to find out what kind of raises we were gettting.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 24, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> They also notified us that we weren't getting raises by email at 4:00 on a Friday which was also the day we were supposed to find out what kind of raises we were gettting.


I believe the thinking behind that is you have the weekend to digest the news and cool off.


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## benbo (Jul 24, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> How long does unemployment last now? It was 6 months when I got laid off, but they extended it to nine months after 9/11.


In California you can get about 19 months.


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## snickerd3 (Sep 23, 2009)

benbo said:


> In California you can get about 19 months.


now theres motivation to try to find new work, no wonder the state budget is in such dire straights


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## benbo (Sep 23, 2009)

snickerd3 said:


> now theres motivation to try to find new work, no wonder the state budget is in such dire straights


I sure wouldn't want to try living on UE for 19 months.


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## Chucktown PE (Oct 1, 2009)

Actually, I was talking to an architect this weekend who got laid off about a year ago. He gets almost $600 a week for unemployment and doesn't have to do shit. That isn't bad money considering he can cut grass and do other things to bring in some extra $$$.


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## benbo (Oct 1, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> Actually, I was talking to an architect this weekend who got laid off about a year ago. He gets almost $600 a week for unemployment and doesn't have to do shit. That isn't bad money considering he can cut grass and do other things to bring in some extra $$$.


Which state is this? I'm pretty sure that in California the maximum benefit is $450 a week, out of which you pay taxes. If you make money either you have to do it under that table, which is illegal, or they deduct it from your benefit.

But, assuming this $600 is correct, would you want to live on that after taxes? $31,200 a year? If so, you should be living it up on your current salary. Certainly no need to strike out to med school.


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## Capt Worley PE (Oct 1, 2009)

He's shining you on, chuck. I can tell you from experience that SC unemployment is limited to $239/week maximum. And, any money you bring in cutting grass, etc., is supposed to be reported so it can be offset in your check.


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## Chucktown PE (Oct 1, 2009)

He's in Charlotte, NC.


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## Capt Worley PE (Oct 2, 2009)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../a140117S46.DTL

North Carolina — $476

Looks like SC has gone up since I was on their program:

South Carolina — $326

Never trust an architect!


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## Santiagj (Jan 11, 2010)

Remember that architects are not good with math or numbers. He probably believes that the four hundred and some dollars he recieves is a million bucks.


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## Road Guy (Jan 15, 2010)

crap even the pawn shops are going out of business


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## Santiagj (Jan 15, 2010)

Do you think Ebay is taking some of the pawn shops business?


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 25, 2010)

It appears that our company has reinstituted merit raises this year. I've never had one below 6% so I'm hoping it'll come in somewhere around there. We usually find out by the end of February. Waiting with restrained optimism.


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## Supe (Jan 25, 2010)

Santiagj said:


> Do you think Ebay is taking some of the pawn shops business?



I'm sure it is. Ebay fetches asinine prices, whereas pawn shops won't take anything they can't make a buck on.

As an aside, I miss the old ebay, before it's popularity blew up. I got some KILLER deals on car parts back in the day.


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