# Ordering from the factory versus buying off the lot



## csb (May 9, 2011)

A few disclaimers up front:

1. I don't need to hear the "I'll never buy new" argument. I've lost that one here at the house.

2. Yes, I know the topic title sounds like we're ordering a woman; we're not.

Onto the actual question:

Okay, so my husband is looking at buying a new truck and he's got his heart set on the specs he's been pining over for months. Does anyone have any experience ordering a specific vehicle from the factory or from another dealer versus just buying off the lot?

Thanks in advance.


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## Flyer_PE (May 9, 2011)

I usually buy new and the last three trucks I've owned have been either searched out from dealer inventory elsewhere or custom ordered. I tend to get exactly the vehicle I want and then run it until the wheels fall off or my needs change. They gave me all the dealer incentives that were current when I made the order and didn't give me any worse deal than they were giving for trucks on the lot. My truck is just over 12 years old at this point so my experience might not be all that relevant to how they do business today though. I was kicking around the idea of getting a new truck and was planning to custom order again. That idea got cancelled by a failing cam shaft in the expensive engine.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 9, 2011)

I ordered my first car from the factory. It was nice to get exactly what I wanted, but it was excruciating waiting for it to be delivered.

The second car, I bought directly off the lot because it had most of what I wanted, and not too much that I didn't want.

The third car, I had the local dealer do a regional search to find what I wanted. I actually walked out on one dealer because we couldn't make a deal on the price. I ended up buying the exact same car from a different local dealer. The car was shipped down from a dealership in Columbus.

The only problem with buying one off the lot or doing a regional search is that they almost all have shitty little options that raise the price unnecessarily (like air deflectors on a moon roof). They then use these little options during the dealing process to get more money. This is why my deal ended with the first dealer on the third car.

Buying from the factory has a similar problem. They are far less likely to drop the price much from MSRP if they are ordering it for you.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 9, 2011)

Dealerships are more flexible with prices for cars in stock. This is mostly due to the fact you will probably make some compromises in options and it may have test drive milage. If you have the dealership find it regionally, you may have to pay shipping costs plus you may end up paying a little more because the dealership knows its the car you want and will use that as a negotiation point. The price for a "found" car may be lower than an ordered one because it may have additional test drive miles. Then if you have it ordered, you know its exactly what you want and know that its not a test driver. Issues with ordering is that you may have to put a deposit down, will have to wait for it to be made, and you may be forced to sign a purchase agreement without even getting to see or test drive it.

Btw, I highly recommend test driving the exact car you will purchase before buying and not just basing your experience on a similar demo car. The best people to work with are typically the internet sales team. Start the process with a quick email explaining what you are looking for (without discussing price). Once you get to the negotiation table, be sure to negotiate all 4 aspects of the purchase independently in this order: trade in value, down payment, sale price of new car, then monthly payment. Following this, I have NEVER paid more than $500 over invoice (and Ive seen the invoice for each of them, including the Camaro).


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## udpolo15 (May 10, 2011)

I've bought 2 new cars off the lot and got exactly what I wanted. Never have really looked into ordering from the factory.

As a side note, I think the buying expereince of Hondas is underrated. Each trim level is an option set, so no mixing and matching. Makes it really easy to comparison shop. I think they've done a pretty good job at grouping options and have gotten about 99% of what I want in a car. It does limit choice a little; I wish I had a power lift gate on my Pilot, but I like it much better than trying to play the option game like you need to do with Fords or Chevys.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 10, 2011)

The worst option game I have ever seen is a Mini Cooper. There are so many freakin' options on those things, it almost impossible to compare two cars to each other. I think Scions are the same way, but I've never looked into them. There is such a thing as too many options.


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## DVINNY (May 10, 2011)

csb said:


> Okay, so my husband is looking at buying a new truck and he's got his heart set on the specs he's been pining over for months. Does anyone have any experience ordering a specific vehicle from the factory or from another dealer versus just buying off the lot?


Let him buy it however he wants.

Even if its $500 more to order from the factory, if he is driving that thing for years, and always thinking "I could have had the damn thing the way I wanted it if she had not been such a b!o$h about it" or he could be driving with a smile thinking "This is my vehicle, and gosh darn it, people like me".

It's worth the money.


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## Freon (May 10, 2011)

Where you live makes a big difference. If you are in a remote area, you may have to factory order to get anything not in the standard packages. I live in the Houston area, so there are hundreds of dealers with an hours drive, and I have always found a 98% or better match for what I wanted on someone's lot.


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## snickerd3 (May 10, 2011)

a dealer that sells NEW cars...who would have thought that.

The ford dealer in town has like a half dozen new cars, 3 trucks and a couple sedans. The rest of the lot is used cars and non-ford actually.


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## Road Guy (May 10, 2011)

I havent ever ordered one from the factory, I would imagine the only downside would be your not going to be able to "haggle"


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## roadwreck (May 10, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> I havent ever ordered one from the factory, I would imagine the only downside would be your not going to be able to "haggle"


Yea, I imagine that the dealer would be pretty inflexible on price if they thought you _had_ to have a specific car.


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## Road Guy (May 10, 2011)

Ive thought it would be nice to be able to sort of have a real estate agent for your car, Id be willing to tell someone what I want, let them scour all the prices and haggling, pay them a fee and then just show up and write a check (assuming the total cost of the car included enough savings to offset the fee)

I hate haggling, especially with some two bit car salesman.. only time I really feel I got a good deal was I bought an old jeep off a dealers lot, I wrote him a check for about $2500 less than what was on the window and said take it or leave it...(inlcuding all the tax,tag,and title bullshit)


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## Flyer_PE (May 10, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > I havent ever ordered one from the factory, I would imagine the only downside would be your not going to be able to "haggle"
> ...


That's only true if you limit yourself to one dealer. A buddy of mine was working on a factory order truck and had two dealers competing for his business. This was in 1992 and he's still driving the truck. At least back then, you could improve the deal with a little leg work.


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## roadwreck (May 10, 2011)

Flyer_PE said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > Road Guy said:
> ...


but you have even more bargaining power if you don't limit yourself to one dealer *and* you don't limit yourself to a specific car.

I find that you get the best deal when you don't convince yourself you _need_ something specific.


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## mudpuppy (May 10, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> Ive thought it would be nice to be able to sort of have a real estate agent for your car, Id be willing to tell someone what I want, let them scour all the prices and haggling, pay them a fee and then just show up and write a check (assuming the total cost of the car included enough savings to offset the fee)


This is, in fact, possible. My barber hired an auto broker to buy his latest pickup. Basically, he told the broker exactly what he wanted and how much he wanted to pay. The broker keeps track of all the auto auctions in the area and notified him when his truck came up for sale. It took a few months, and he paid the broker a few hundred dollars for his efforts ($600 if I recall correctly) but he ended up with exactly what he wanted and didn't have to spend lots of time and effort on the process.

A quick Google search turns up all kinds of info on auto brokers if you're interested.


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## udpolo15 (May 10, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Flyer_PE said:
> 
> 
> > roadwreck said:
> ...


The internet has really changed car buying. I just bought a new car and got internet pricing for a number of dealers. Prices were below invoices and all within a couple hundred of each other. Picked the color, walked into the dealership, test drove, said we take it for the internet price, walked out an hour later with the car.

Felt I got a good deal and didn't have to haggle though dealt with email/phone calls from all the other dealers for a couple of weeks.


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## csb (May 10, 2011)

DVINNY said:


> Let him buy it however he wants.
> Even if its $500 more to order from the factory, if he is driving that thing for years, and always thinking "I could have had the damn thing the way I wanted it if she had not been such a b!o$h about it" or he could be driving with a smile thinking "This is my vehicle, and gosh darn it, people like me".
> 
> It's worth the money.


He's asked for help from me, because he's horrible at haggling. I'm the better person when it comes to buying things that don't have a set price. That's why I'm trying to figure out how it will go for me to negotiate a price on a specific vehicle versus one off the lot. Otherwise, he panics and gives them too much money and doesn't get what he wants. It really works out better this way.

So, I'm not a bitch...I'm just helpful 

And thanks for all the help from everybody! I'm getting a better feel for it and I think I might go the internet route. We have a few options for dealers, so I know we don't have to go with the local one. I usually prefer local if I can go that route, but we're not willing to pay way more money for that.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 10, 2011)

The biggest negotiation tool the consumer has is choice. If you are willing/able to walk away from ANY car (including the perfect car) because the deal isn't where you want it, you will have a leg up.

When I bought the Camaro, it had all the options I wanted but the price wasn't right. We talked for about an hour as to ways to get the price down (increased down payment, lowered interest rate, longer finance term, additional discounts, etc). When I drew my line in the sand in that I wasn't going to increase my down payment and I wasnt going to finanance it forever and they said they wouldn't drop the price any more, I kindly asked for my keys back on the car I was trading in and walked out. My wife and I made it as far as the front door before they came back and said they could do it.

I've had dealers I've walked out on call me later that afternoon or even the next day saying they had new "options."


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## csb (May 10, 2011)

That's where my husband struggles...he just wants the new truck so badly he forgets that he doesn't have to buy it. He came with me when I bought my car and I was shocked when he agreed at the first price they brought out. I said no deal and worked them down another $4K after that plus 0% financing.


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## envirotex (May 10, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> The biggest negotiation tool the consumer has is choice. If you are willing/able to walk away from ANY car (including the perfect car) because the deal isn't where you want it, you will have a leg up.
> When I bought the Camaro, it had all the options I wanted but the price wasn't right. We talked for about an hour as to ways to get the price down (increased down payment, lowered interest rate, longer finance term, additional discounts, etc). When I drew my line in the sand in that I wasn't going to increase my down payment and I wasnt going to finanance it forever and they said they wouldn't drop the price any more, I kindly asked for my keys back on the car I was trading in and walked out. My wife and I made it as far as the front door before they came back and said they could do it.
> 
> I've had dealers I've walked out on call me later that afternoon or even the next day saying they had new "options."


Me too. We were buying the new family truckster, and trading in the old family truckster, and while we were signing the contracts they told us they needed more down payment for the terms that they had previously agreed upon...We told them, thanks, but no thanks, got ready to leave, and the money man basically said, wait never mind we can get everything done for the original terms...

I think the other thing that REALLY helps is to wait until the end of the month when they are looking at their quotas and inventory...much more likely to make a deal then.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 10, 2011)

One other thing to keep in mind is the timing of the purchase. Manufacturers have certain deadlines for each production year when it comes to orders (like 2011's can only be ordered until June 2011) because transition into production on the 2012's needs to start for their August/September unveiling.

Also, spring time is typically the worst time to buy off the lot because it's when the dealerships have the most customers (higher demand). If you have to have the most current vehicle, winter time is the ideal purchase time because the run is still new and the dealerships have no foot-traffic. If you want the best overall deal on a new car, wait until the end of the summer just before the release time of the next model year. Selection is typically a little lower, but the dealership wants to make space for the shipment on the newer new cars.

Edit: The monthly timing can also be a big help, as can daily and even hourly timing. The best overall timing is typically the last Friday/Saturday of the month, and be sure to start negotiations late in the day (within an hour of closing time). When you have a sales team looking to hit their quota, combined with the fact they want to go home, you can get some pretty good deals.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 10, 2011)

Personally I find car shopping entertaining. I used to work at a dealership (3years full time while in college), so I know alot of the "tricks" the sales team like to try and it's fun trying to guess which one they will try next. Because I know a car purchase can take a couple hours, I make sure to bring snacks with me, leave the kiddos with the grandparents, and get dressed in comfortable clothes.


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## mudpuppy (May 10, 2011)

I'm not a big fan of haggling either. Thankfully, my employer is a supplier to each of the "Big 3," so I am eligible for the supplier discount at each of them. I don't know the specifics on each program, but for Ford it works out to around $200 over dealer invoice. I doubt I could do any better than that by haggling.

They still have ways to try to make money, though. Trade-ins are negotiable and they try to sell add-ons like extended warranties and insurance that pays the car payment if you lose your job. When I bought my current car the business manager actually said I was stupid for not buying any of that crap. Of course, this was affirmation that this is where they make their real money. Besides, if I'm stupid for not buying an extended warranty, then why is he selling me a junky car in the first place?


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## MA_PE (May 10, 2011)

x2 on the internet approach. You can do all your haggling online without the "in your face" pressure, then go pick it up.


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## Kephart P.E. (May 10, 2011)

My last 2 vehicles have been purchase from carsdirect.com and have been very happy.

Basically it is like using the dealer inventory option, Cars Direct matches you up with a dealer and the price is already agreed upon.

It really takes a lot of the negotiation out of the final deal.

Then you just plan on a trip to the dealer to sign paper work. They still try and up sell you on extended warranty and gap insurance but that is pretty easy to turn down and plus and I find it very easy to be an ass about stuff I didn't ask for and don't want.


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## cableguy (May 10, 2011)

Friend of mine factory ordered a new Ford Explorer for his wife... several months ago. She got it last week. Apparently there was/is a rail slowdown, or something to that effect. The truck sat up north for over a month. He sold his wife's minivan when the dealer promised the truck was about to arrive. She ended up driving the dealership's demo vehicle for about 6 weeks. They were unhappy about the whole process.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article393195.ece

Be ready to wait if you factory order one!


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## Flyer_PE (May 10, 2011)

^I was on the waiting list for my motorcycle for 3.5 years back in the day. If getting EXACTLY what you want is important, patience is required.


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## humner (May 13, 2011)

I just buy what I can fit into and make sure a passenger can fit comfortably behind me. A to B and B to A vehicle. I don't live in my cars, I just want to be comfortable. Speed limit at most that I ever hit is 65 and that is out on the highway. As far as trucks go, I have an old van I tow a trailer around behind, keep it simple. Then again I hope to finish my damn Road Runner clone this year, so I guess I even have my wants.


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## csb (May 13, 2011)

We're supposed to go buy the truck today! Went into negotiate with the local dealer and got all the same old, "We're only making $75 on this truck" kind of lines. Hit the internet to do some sleuthing and found the truck at another dealer and after some e-mailing got the price we wanted. Yay!

Thanks for the help!


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## MA_PE (May 13, 2011)

the internet = the equalizer

hope the deal goes smoothly.


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## momech (May 17, 2011)

I negotiated my best new vehicle purchase by making phone calls to dealerships before I ever went anywhere. Each time I asked for the sales manager and said, "I'm buying a new S-10. I want to pay X% off of MSRP for the base and Y% off of MSRP for any options." After phone calls to virtually every Chevrolet dealer in town, I finally found a guy who would do it. Then all I had to do was go meet with the guy and pick one out. They ended up doing a dealer trade with a dealer about 300 miles away for the truck I wanted.


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