# SE taking Civil PE - Requesting Recommendations and Advice



## jfluckey (Mar 12, 2017)

I have posted this before, but I think I am getting more serious about taking the Civil PE so I can become licensed in CA. By degree I am a Mechanical Engineer (BSME) but my experience from graduation (2006) has been structural. I took and passed the 16-hour structural exam in 2012. Now I want to take the civil exam so I can get those states that will not license me by reciprocity (i.e. CA). So now I have some questions that hopefully the community will be kind of enough to send me in the right direction. I plan to take the civil with structures depth. I work with wood, HRS, CFS, and concrete regularly in my business in the modular world which is why I collect multiple state licenses.


Since I am a mechanical engineer by degree, I don't have any experience in civil but on the other hand, "all" I have to do is pass the AM breadth portion. Is the CERM the only reference material needed for the AM section? I do plan on getting some practice AM exams and "try my luck" by taking the exam once before I decide if I need a review course (physical or online). Again, reading through some of the threads on here, it sound like the AM section isn't "too difficult" if you are able to find the equations you need in the CERM.

I assume the pm depth structures won't be a problem unless they still throw in some other subjects. I don't want to sound conceited, but I'm really expecting the pm section to be easy compared to the SE exam. Maybe someone with experience with both exams can let me know?

Is there a list of reference materials to bring for the pm section?

I'm in northern Indiana and IN won't let me sit for another exam. They say they don't have the resources to keep records of multiple exams for people. So, I need to take this exam out-of-state. Does anyone have any experience taking an exam out-of-state in a state that surrounds IN?

Am I being too nonchalant by relying on my unfounded comparison with the SE exam? Again, anyone who has taken both can let me know.

Thanks -jfluckey


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## Maji (Mar 13, 2017)

In California, in addition to the Civil NCEES PE exam, you will have to take the Surveying and the Seismic exams. The Seismic portion should be relatively easy for a SE, but the surveying portion will need a good bit of work if you don't have a background in surveying. My suggestion is that you look at taking a course for the NCEES and at least for the surveying exams. 

Good luck.


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## ptatohed (Mar 13, 2017)

jfluckey said:


> I have posted this before, but I think I am getting more serious about taking the Civil PE so I can become licensed in CA. By degree I am a Mechanical Engineer (BSME) but my experience from graduation (2006) has been structural. I took and passed the 16-hour structural exam in 2012. Now I want to take the civil exam so I can get those states that will not license me by reciprocity (i.e. CA). So now I have some questions that hopefully the community will be kind of enough to send me in the right direction. I plan to take the civil with structures depth. I work with wood, HRS, CFS, and concrete regularly in my business in the modular world which is why I collect multiple state licenses.
> 
> 
> Since I am a mechanical engineer by degree, I don't have any experience in civil but on the other hand, "all" I have to do is pass the AM breadth portion. Is the CERM the only reference material needed for the AM section? I do plan on getting some practice AM exams and "try my luck" by taking the exam once before I decide if I need a review course (physical or online). Again, reading through some of the threads on here, it sound like the AM section isn't "too difficult" if you are able to find the equations you need in the CERM.
> ...


I assume you have a ME PE license?  I thought a Civil License was needed to take the SE exam, no? 

1.  The CERM as your only reference on exam day is enough to pass the AM, yes.  You may also consider Goswami's All-In-One book.  The A-I-1 book is pretty good and it is a nice price.  It isn't quite a substitute for the CERM so you'll want both.  Also, if you take a good review course like EET's, their class notes alone should be enough to pass the AM so you could skip the CERM if you wanted to.  And like you said, during your study/review, obtain and work as many (quality) practice problems as you can. 

2.  Check the EB SE forum. 

3.  Check the Civil Structural EB subforum and, of course, NCEES's list of references/standards. 

4.  ????  Your own state won't let you take the Civil PE exam??

5.  I think you are justified in feeling confident that you'll do well in the PM given you passed the SE exam.  But I don't think that means your preparation should be zero, it will just be less than if you did not have your SE experience.  Maybe start by trying some NCEES practice exams and gauge where you are.

As Maji stated, you'll need to take and pass two separate 2.5-hour exams for Civil licensure in CA. 

Good luck.


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## jfluckey (Mar 13, 2017)

Maji said:


> In California, in addition to the Civil NCEES PE exam, you will have to take the Surveying and the Seismic exams. The Seismic portion should be relatively easy for a SE, but the surveying portion will need a good bit of work if you don't have a background in surveying. My suggestion is that you look at taking a course for the NCEES and at least for the surveying exams.
> 
> Good luck.


Maji, yes the surveying exam is what has demotivated me to obtain this license. But, I suppose it is only money for a review course to get this passed. What will save me is not actually having to do surveying, but just knowing the concepts (since it is computer based).



ptatohed said:


> I assume you have a ME PE license?  I thought a Civil License was needed to take the SE exam, no?
> 
> 1.  The CERM as your only reference on exam day is enough to pass the AM, yes.  You may also consider Goswami's All-In-One book.  The A-I-1 book is pretty good and it is a nice price.  It isn't quite a substitute for the CERM so you'll want both.  Also, if you take a good review course like EET's, their class notes alone should be enough to pass the AM so you could skip the CERM if you wanted to.  And like you said, during your study/review, obtain and work as many (quality) practice problems as you can.
> 
> ...


No, I don't have an ME license; I don't have any mechanical work experience. I sat for the SE in Indiana because they don't care what exam you pass in order to make you a PE. Indiana has no prerequisites for the SE exam other than those for the other PE exams (education, 4 years experience, etc.). Since IN doesn't license by discipline, they don't think there is any reason why you have to pass multiple exams and that is why they won't let me sit for another one. Thank you for your answers. I would be footing the bill for the review courses, so I am trying to get by without doing them unless my first test score proves otherwise. I'm fairly sure I will be getting the CERM and some PPI and NCEES practice tests, all of which should be allowed to be taken into the exam.


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## ptatohed (Mar 14, 2017)

jfluckey said:


> Maji, yes the surveying exam is what has demotivated me to obtain this license. But, I suppose it is only money for a review course to get this passed. What will save me is not actually having to do surveying, but just knowing the concepts (since it is computer based).
> 
> No, I don't have an ME license; I don't have any mechanical work experience. I sat for the SE in Indiana because they don't care what exam you pass in order to make you a PE. Indiana has no prerequisites for the SE exam other than those for the other PE exams (education, 4 years experience, etc.). Since IN doesn't license by discipline, they don't think there is any reason why you have to pass multiple exams and that is why they won't let me sit for another one. Thank you for your answers. I would be footing the bill for the review courses, so I am trying to get by without doing them unless my first test score proves otherwise. I'm fairly sure I will be getting the CERM and some PPI and NCEES practice tests, all of which should be allowed to be taken into the exam.


I see.  So, in IN, an SE is a PE?


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## CAPLS (Mar 14, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I see.  So, in IN, an SE is a PE?


In many states that offer SE license, it is not considered a "mastery" license or additional title authority like it is in California and it is considered just another branch of engineering.  There are a half dozen or so states that require the foundation (no pun intended) PE or CE license first, but that's predominately on the west coast.


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## CAPLS (Mar 14, 2017)

jfluckey said:


> I have posted this before, but I think I am getting more serious about taking the Civil PE so I can become licensed in CA. By degree I am a Mechanical Engineer (BSME) but my experience from graduation (2006) has been structural. I took and passed the 16-hour structural exam in 2012. Now I want to take the civil exam so I can get those states that will not license me by reciprocity (i.e. CA). So now I have some questions that hopefully the community will be kind of enough to send me in the right direction. I plan to take the civil with structures depth. I work with wood, HRS, CFS, and concrete regularly in my business in the modular world which is why I collect multiple state licenses.
> 
> 
> *Since I am a mechanical engineer by degree, I don't have any experience in civil but on the other hand, "all" I have to do is pass the AM breadth portion.* Is the CERM the only reference material needed for the AM section? I do plan on getting some practice AM exams and "try my luck" by taking the exam once before I decide if I need a review course (physical or online). Again, reading through some of the threads on here, it sound like the AM section isn't "too difficult" if you are able to find the equations you need in the CERM.


Uh, not necessarily!  If you don't have any civil engineering experience, you won't qualify for licensure in California.  While your ME degree will probably not qualify towards a civil license, I suspect that much of your SE experience (whatever you have) would suffice as civil experience because structural engineering is considered civil engineering in California and not a separate branch of engineering.  Hopefully, you have at least 6 years of experience that can be considered as civil engineering under the responsible charge of licensee(s) that are also appropriately licensed.


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## jfluckey (Mar 18, 2017)

CAPLS said:


> Uh, not necessarily!  If you don't have any civil engineering experience, you won't qualify for licensure in California.  While your ME degree will probably not qualify towards a civil license, I suspect that much of your SE experience (whatever you have) would suffice as civil experience because structural engineering is considered civil engineering in California and not a separate branch of engineering.  Hopefully, you have at least 6 years of experience that can be considered as civil engineering under the responsible charge of licensee(s) that are also appropriately licensed.


You are right on! I ran into this problem with Illinois. Since I didn't have a Civil degree, they didn't accept my education and required that I have (8) years experience (an additional 29 months from where I was). After my (8) years passed, I resubmitted my work experience form and they issued my license. I shouldn't have said I don't have any civil experience. I mean I don't have any experience in civil outside of structures. I passed the structural in 2012 and I had (5) years experience at that point. I haven't been under the responsible charge of another licensee since 2015 though.


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## jfluckey (Mar 18, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I see.  So, in IN, an SE is a PE?


Yup, as CAPLS said, many states just need any NCEES engineering exam passed in order to get the PE designation. Indiana (and some other states) allows the engineer to decide what he is comfortable sealing by experience instead of limiting you to your education/exam. Many states allow you to do structures with a PE license up to a certain size but require you to get an SE when doing certain types (schools/hospitals) or larger structures. IL and HI are the only two states that REQUIRE you to  be an SE (or architect... don't get me started) in order to do ANY buildings (regardless of size).


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## smahurin (Mar 29, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I see.  So, in IN, an SE is a PE?


Yup, at least half the states don't recognize or care... they treat a professional engineer as a professional engineer regardless of discipline.  For instance there are quite a few states that you could take the SE in, pass, get your PE license, and then if you ethically felt you were qualified work as an electrical PE (or any other PE).  Many states just don't do/care about discipline distinction.  So an SE is a PE and that PE means you are a professional engineer... not professional civil engineer, not professional mechanical engineer... a professional engineer.  Again as long as you ethically feel you are qualified.


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