# Texas Mansion dangling over cliff



## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/texas/article/Mansion-dangles-over-cliff-on-Texas-Lake-Whitney-5544446.php


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## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

I'm curious as to what type of rock this is.


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## dussbucs (Jun 12, 2014)

That's about an hour south of where I'm at. I think parts of the house finally started falling down below yesterday. $800k or so for that house from what I heard on the radio. Sucks for that guy...


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## roadwreck (Jun 12, 2014)

To add insult to injury:



> authorities have said the home owners will be responsible for cleaning up the debris


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 12, 2014)

I love when people build at the top of a hill assuming the topography will always stay the same. It's his own dumbass fault for building/buying there.

On the bright side after this is done, he'll have a great ocean view from his front porch too...


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## mudpuppy (Jun 12, 2014)

Wonder who's going to pay for all that.... probably all of us through our insurance rates. Just like all the people who build houses on barrier islands.


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

you would think most people would know that all rocks have moved at some point in our planets history (most mulitiple times)

ahh residential developers.....


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

what a shame, looks like a nice house. i intentionally aimed for a middle-class career so i wouldn't be bothered by such things. "oh my mansion is falling off a cliff" "gah my Range Rover needs a $90 oil change" pffffft.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 12, 2014)

I wish my oil changes only cost $90...


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

Dexman PE said:


> I wish my oil changes only cost $90...




8qts of Amsoil will probably get you up there. i put dino oil in my hemi. by "i put" i mean i patiently wait on the leather couch at my dealership, eating their free cookies and drinking their free coffee.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 12, 2014)

Porter_ said:


> Dexman PE said:
> 
> 
> > I wish my oil changes only cost $90...
> ...




Free cookies? Free coffee? You funny man!


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

yeah the dealership i go to is awesome. $33 for oil change and tire rotation, and free snacks.


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

what on earth would cost more than $100 for an oil change?


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## envirotex (Jun 12, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> I'm curious as to what type of rock this is.


Limestone


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## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

envirotex said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to what type of rock this is.
> ...


Thanks Tex, I knew you would chime on this. That being said, I expected the answer to be limestone at which point what a dope to build there, and why didn't anyone on a municipal level say something about this.


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## SNAPE/SMOTT PE (Jun 12, 2014)

Notice no one else built a house near this one...some are off in the distance. Just had to have the best view, didn't ya!


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> what on earth would cost more than $100 for an oil change?




a filter and two of these will get you up there: http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-15305-Motor-Oil/dp/B004BONVB6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1402593925&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=amsoil+5w30


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

they probably did, but they the developer went to say something to either the City or County Manager (Or Politician) and got it approved...


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## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> they probably did, but they the developer went to say something to either the City or County Manager (Or Politician) and got it approved...


and this is the part of this profession that I'm disliking the most. The crooked political aspect where the engineer gets paid to look the other way. There's probably a lesson about ethics in there somewhere... :dunno:


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

not really paid to look the other way but told to look the other way, then the staff person over development review makes a note to the file that says "on such and such date I was directed by so and so to accept this ______________"

Well if they are smart they are documenting those decisions..because when something like this happens the county managers and politicians usually have bad memories..

probably for residential construction an engineer wasnt involved in where this acutal house was placed, you know some states even let surveyors submit plats and do drainage. without an engineer involved....


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

https://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&amp;ll=32.028132,-97.4244158&amp;spn=0.0015288,0.0024044&amp;q=Steele+Creek+Park&amp;cid=0x90db13fbfffa2e95&amp;output=classic&amp;dg=ntvb

man check out the before picture, lots of open real estate to the houses right...


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## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

that's true, If memory serves me correct PA is one of those states. Here, depending upon the municipality the muni engineer may or may not be involved. My reason for assuming so was due to the geological conditions. It's just odd to me that building setback relief wsn't sought for this case at which point a closer second look should have been given to it.


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## NJmike PE (Jun 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> https://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&amp;ll=32.028132,-97.4244158&amp;spn=0.0015288,0.0024044&amp;q=Steele+Creek+Park&amp;cid=0x90db13fbfffa2e95&amp;output=classic&amp;dg=ntvb
> 
> man check out the before picture, lots of open real estate to the houses right...


yeah, that's crazy


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> https://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&amp;ll=32.028132,-97.4244158&amp;spn=0.0015288,0.0024044&amp;q=Steele+Creek+Park&amp;cid=0x90db13fbfffa2e95&amp;output=classic&amp;dg=ntvb
> 
> man check out the before picture, lots of open real estate to the houses right...




they positioned that house extremely close to the cliff edge.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> what on earth would cost more than $100 for an oil change?


9 quarts of Mobile 1 (dealer rate of $8/quart), plus filter, plus labor. And that doesn't cover the rest of the service. With coupon, I can usually get everything done for ~$110.


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## Master slacker (Jun 12, 2014)

9 qts of oil? holy f*ck, man!


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## Road Guy (Jun 12, 2014)

serioulsy I think my HMVEE in the Army took less than that...


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 12, 2014)

technically 8.5, but no one sells half quarts.


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## envirotex (Jun 12, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> envirotex said:
> 
> 
> > NJmike PE said:
> ...


It probably wasn't the limestone that was the issue...probably has interbedded clays that shrink and swell leading to that big block dropping off into the lake (those block slumps are pretty common here). It also looks like there might be a fault there, and significant amount of fill on the property. The science behind what happened should be pretty interesting...Wonder if they used a PE?


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## Porter_ (Jun 12, 2014)

envirotex said:


> ...Wonder if they used a PE?




i'd hate to be that guy. if a PE was involved i bet he's poring over his liability insurance policy right now.


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## envirotex (Jun 13, 2014)

Ah

Watch out, you might get what you're after
Cool baby, strange but not a stranger
I'm an ordinary guy
Burning down the house

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2657073/Homeowner-burn-house-teetering-Texas-cliff.html


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## engineergurl (Jun 13, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> not really paid to look the other way but told to look the other way, then the staff person over development review makes a note to the file that says "on such and such date I was directed by so and so to accept this ______________"






I have written similar statements time and time again... cyoa


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## Dark Knight (Jun 13, 2014)

Did they burn the house?


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## Porter_ (Jun 13, 2014)

yeah. the link envirotex posted shows the process. it's always fun to burn stuff.


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## SNAPE/SMOTT PE (Jun 13, 2014)

Ain't nobody got time for that!


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## cement (Jun 14, 2014)

if you build a house on an unstable cliff face, does your homeowner's insurance cover your dumbass move?


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## DanHalen (Jun 14, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> not really paid to look the other way but told to look the other way, then the staff person over development review makes a note to the file that says "on such and such date I was directed by so and so to accept this ______________"
> 
> Well if they are smart they are documenting those decisions..because when something like this happens the county managers and politicians usually have bad memories..
> 
> probably for residential construction an engineer wasnt involved in where this acutal house was placed, you know some states even let surveyors submit plats and do drainage. without an engineer involved....




There is a great deal of truth here. I've had the misfortune of dealing with scumbag politicians and their appointed goons. Just last week we had a developer that was wanting us to give him the farm and I found another way to make our project work to bypass him all together. My boss loved the idea and was totally onboard because the developer had been talking shit to my boss for about a month. My boss is sick of this guy and has asked me to find another way and I did. After my boss reported the news to the developer he wasn't all that pleased. Before lunch the next day we got an email from our director that said, "you will build......" basically what the developer wanted. I've dealt with the developer before and he usually starts out by degrading the person he's on the phone with and is very condescending. I usually hang up on him and don't listen to that garbage - hey I wonder if that's the reason why I can't get promoted??? The costs to build this project was nearly $500k more than the alternative I found. My boss shrugs and says, "it's not our money." I'm certain whatever governing body approved this house was heavily influenced by the developer. Bribes, gifts, and threats go a long way. It would be nice to see these political hacks held accountable for making these decisions and exposed for what they are.


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## Boomer01 PE (Jun 16, 2014)

Since when is a 4,000 sf house considered a mansion? I'm by no means saying that it is small, but a mansion? Obviously it makes for a better headline.


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## Supe (Jun 16, 2014)

Boomer01 PE said:


> Since when is a 4,000 sf house considered a mansion? I'm by no means saying that it is small, but a mansion? Obviously it makes for a better headline.




That was the footage after half of it fell off a cliff.


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## ALBin517 (Jun 16, 2014)

I work for the government and I very rarely call anybody.

I used to call like a normal person until I told a contractor via phone, "Do not do X." The next day, my boss ripped my tail, "The contractor is out there doing X and they said you specifically told them they could do it."

Since then, every key communication is email... says exactly what was communicated and when.



Road Guy said:


> not really paid to look the other way but told to look the other way, then the staff person over development review makes a note to the file that says "on such and such date I was directed by so and so to accept this ______________"
> 
> Well if they are smart they are documenting those decisions..because when something like this happens the county managers and politicians usually have bad memories..
> 
> probably for residential construction an engineer wasnt involved in where this acutal house was placed, you know some states even let surveyors submit plats and do drainage. without an engineer involved....


Michigan allows site plans to be completed by architects also. One of my PE mentors told me, "Getting a site plan signed by an architect is like getting a gift wrapped in newspaper; you don't know what's inside but you know it won't be anything you want."


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## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2014)

[SIZE=medium]For different reasons (after I was personally sued on a project and had several emails recanted back to me during a 7 hour deposition, I started making lots more phone calls than emails) but I see your point![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]After our big 150 year storm in 2011 we had an entire subdivision entrance flooded out and while the road was mostly ok emergency crews (fire trucks, ambulances, etc) couldn’t not drive into the neighborhood due to the depth of the water (3’ or so). This was one of those neighborhoods (when it was built) where previously it was denied by staff but politics got the neighborhood approved since the houses were out of the floodplain but the entrance road wasn’t. That approval was maybe in the 1990’s? This neighborhood was less than 1200 feet from a little river called the Chattahoochee (Alan Jackson song), which is a river that is a couple hundred feet across in some places..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So after the flood we had a project planned to replace an old flat slab bridge with a triple box culvert. We figured out a way to raise the profile just enough so that the entrance wouldn’t be underwater if it rained like that again. We had the COE all happy, the FEMA flood people all happy, (designed it so we could raise the road and still had a no-rise-since the new hydraulic opening was larger than the existing bridge).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Only drawback was the subdivision entrance was going to get wiped out and rebuilt. This is one of those semi million dollar houses with a guard shack, gate, flowers, and shit (all on the right of way i.e. not on their property)..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So after 2 years of me personally dealing with the COE &amp; FEMA folks to okay the raising of the road we get called out by the elected official to the site and says we can replace the flat slab bridge (small bridge for those of you not in the know) but that he wouldn’t approve raising the road. I reminded him of the last flood, the proximity to the river, and that I wasn’t going to be responsible if there was another event and someone had an emergency and couldn’t get access to an ambulance, He then murmured something about that wont happen again (this road overtopped even in 20 year storm events some times). I then pull the ‘I have to hear that from the County Manager” card. Which doesn’t go over well with the commissioner of course…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]His rationale was that the road flooded because the bridge was too small and that it didn’t have anything to do with being close to the river. Partially true the bridge was too small but even replacing the bridge we modeled it 600 ways till Sunday and we still had to raise the road about a foot to get the subdivision entrance out of even the 50 year storm. (We figured it would still be a few inches underwater during that storm- but we hoped the drainage models were conservative)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I go back to the office, meet with the boss and the County Manager who direct me to replace the bridge but not raise the road, I asked for that direction to be put in writing, they refused. So I wrote one of those emails to all parties involved “This is to clarify the discussions held earlier today with directed me to do…………” I still have a copy of that one. Hope it doesn’t ever flood again, but I hate to spend $1 Million of taxpayer money and not fully fix the problem….cause if it does it is sure going to look nice in the news that some old lady died because her mega HOA didn’t want to have the front entrance of their subdivision damaged (&amp; we were even going to rebuild most of it) fuck….[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]These days I don’t have these problems anymore- I truly enjoyed my time in the public service but lots and lots of these type situations just get very old……[/SIZE]


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