# PAY Cuts!



## NCcarguy (Apr 20, 2009)

So.....any of you guys been the recipient of the wonderful new cost saving measure the "Pay CUT"?

I just found out that my NEW salary starting with the NEXT pay period will be 10% less than the last pay period!!!! yippeee!!

let me tell you...that's a big cut!


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## snickerd3 (Apr 20, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> So.....any of you guys been the recipient of the wonderful new cost saving measure the "Pay CUT"?
> I just found out that my NEW salary starting with the NEXT pay period will be 10% less than the last pay period!!!! yippeee!!
> 
> let me tell you...that's a big cut!


bummer. Sorry to here that.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Apr 20, 2009)

That sucks! I couldn't survive a pay cut. I've already trimmed my bills down as much as possible and am still barely making it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 20, 2009)

Sorry to hear that....


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 20, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> So.....any of you guys been the recipient of the wonderful new cost saving measure the "Pay CUT"?
> I just found out that my NEW salary starting with the NEXT pay period will be 10% less than the last pay period!!!! yippeee!!
> 
> let me tell you...that's a big cut!


Yeah, this happened to me about a month ago. Then about 3 weeks ago, our sick leave also got cut. I feel your pain, brotha...


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## MA_PE (Apr 20, 2009)

that completely sux. good luck and I hope it's only a temporary measure for a short duration.


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## Road Guy (Apr 20, 2009)

sorry to hear that, If something doesnt change I think were all going to see more of it, but If they are going to cut pay I would personally prefer them to do a one day a month furlough or something to even out the less money where your not doing the same job for less... but its a crazy time..


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## MGX (Apr 20, 2009)

When the economy recovers, you'll have to find work elsewhere to get paid what you were making since I doubt your bosses will up your pay when money starts rolling in again.

Sorry to hear it.


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## Sschell (Apr 20, 2009)

Dude... I would need to find a second job!

Did they allow you to reduce the hours worked by 10%?


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## Vishal (Apr 20, 2009)

MGX said:


> *since I doubt your bosses will up your pay when money starts rolling in again.*


This is my concern. I am not sure if all the firms need to cut pay or some are just riding the bandwagon and taking advantage. Certainly, it is better to make a little less than losing out on pay and benefits altogether. Eventually, at the end of the 2 year period the change in salary will be in the negative (I am in a similar boat) which under normal conditions would have been X% positive. So it is a double loss. Let's be optimistic and say that the pay is broguth back to the pre-cut time, still there is a loss as there was no raise in the salary and then from that point on your current salary for the purposes of any future incremenets will become what you were making before the reduction.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 20, 2009)

Supposedly our pay will be brought back to pre-cut levels next month. If not, I will be searching. I have been very loyal to the company, and understanding about this, but if things don't change as they have promised, all is out the window. A timeline:

October: Took PE Exam (3rd try).

December: Recieved passing PE Exam letter.

March: 10% Pay cut. Recieved promotion to Project Engineer.

April: Sick leave capped at 16 hours, no accrual. In other words, you get sick, FU!


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## NCcarguy (Apr 20, 2009)

dude said:


> Dude... I would need to find a second job!
> Did they allow you to reduce the hours worked by 10%?



no....in fact, they're really hammering on us to increase our UT!!! We also were told they were going to hold back another week's pay, which you would get if you leave, so technically it's not another cut, but they did this by stretching out 2 pay periods, which pushes one pay period out until next year, so basically I'll get paid 25 times this year instead of 26.

that makes it really about a 14% pay cut! I'm guessing 4 day work weeks are on the horizon if work doesnt' pick up.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 20, 2009)

NCcarguy,

Sorry to hear about your situation. If it gets too bad, hop on I-40 and head west for about 350 miles. We're trying to hire 15-20 people over the next couple of months (and we're having trouble finding good people).


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## Dleg (Apr 20, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> So.....any of you guys been the recipient of the wonderful new cost saving measure the "Pay CUT"?
> I just found out that my NEW salary starting with the NEXT pay period will be 10% less than the last pay period!!!! yippeee!!
> 
> let me tell you...that's a big cut!


No kidding! I went through a year of 10% pay cut (but with one extra day off every two weeks), and let me tell you, it really does make a difference!

Sorry to hear about that, NC. Better than losing a job, but I'd be pissed that they're asking you to work even more hours now.

Chaos, you talking nuclear work? What kind of jobs, qualifications, etc.? Just curious.


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## dastuff (Apr 20, 2009)

We're still good. But my roommate (also an SE) is on a 4 day work week and had their bonus cut to a 50$ Honeybaked Hams card..

Bad Times...

A pay cut right now would screw my saving for a home. It's hard enough to pay off student loans + living as it is.


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## Flyer_PE (Apr 20, 2009)

Dleg said:


> No kidding! I went through a year of 10% pay cut (but with one extra day off every two weeks), and let me tell you, it really does make a difference!
> Sorry to hear about that, NC. Better than losing a job, but I'd be pissed that they're asking you to work even more hours now.
> 
> Chaos, you talking nuclear work? What kind of jobs, qualifications, etc.? Just curious.


I'm not sure what the civil/structural outlook is right now in nuclear. Mechanical and electrical engineers are still in short supply. Our fossil work is falling off some right now but the nuke work is still going pretty strong.


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## benbo (Apr 20, 2009)

Flyer_PE said:


> I'm not sure what the civil/structural outlook is right now in nuclear. Mechanical and electrical engineers are still in short supply. Our fossil work is falling off some right now but the nuke work is still going pretty strong.


I just got an email from a power plant (fossil) shift supervisor that we regulate telling me he was being laid off and actively seeking work. Last month I got an email saying the same thing from the regulatory rep from the same company. I thought these guys were immune. Things have to be tough when you're trying to network with your regulators.


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## PE-ness (Apr 20, 2009)

No kidding! I've been so hard up lately that I've been talking with my regulator. He's a real "pro" from the State government, if you know what I'm saying.

I'm not looking for any work from him though; I am just looking for him to ease up a little bit.


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## mudpuppy (Apr 20, 2009)

benbo said:


> I just got an email from a power plant (fossil) shift supervisor that we regulate telling me he was being laid off and actively seeking work. Last month I got an email saying the same thing from the regulatory rep from the same company. I thought these guys were immune. Things have to be tough when you're trying to network with your regulators.


We're still going fairly strong here, but we've always been understaffed and now it seems everyone wants to leave this state. . .


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## TXengrChickPE (Apr 21, 2009)

I took a "voluntary" 10% pay cut (but still had to work the full 40hrs) in February... less than 3 weeks later I got laid off... still looking for work


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## Chucktown PE (Apr 21, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> I took a "voluntary" 10% pay cut (but still had to work the full 40hrs) in February... less than 3 weeks later I got laid off... still looking for work



What the hell is a voluntary pay cut?

We're on a salary freeze right now. They're saying we may get raises in October. So far we've had one or two rounds of layoffs but that was all for finance and administrative folks.

I don't think I could manage a 10% pay cut. We're down to bare bones.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 21, 2009)

Flyer_PE said:


> I'm not sure what the civil/structural outlook is right now in nuclear. Mechanical and electrical engineers are still in short supply. Our fossil work is falling off some right now but the nuke work is still going pretty strong.


My type of nuke work is a bit different.

Dleg, I'm currently at an A/E, and while our primary customer is the DOE, we do some commercial and DOD as well. We have a fair sized enviromental division, and we've got a large design-build project getting ready to start, so that will keep some of our civils busy for a while. We also have good sized infrastructure reduction projects, there are a lot of cold-war era buildings here in Oak Ridge, which are an enviromental nightmare, but that keeps that division fairly busy.

Oak Ridge is an old government town, and we're getting a lot of Obamabucks. Its a good thing, but its making it hard to find good employees, as all the local companies are getting pretty busy.


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## Supe (Apr 21, 2009)

Our fossil design work right now is minimal, while the nuclear continues to ramp up. Very few outsiders being brought in though, they're just shifting everyone they can internally to preserve jobs, even with field personnel.


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## TXengrChickPE (Apr 21, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> What the hell is a voluntary pay cut?


That's when they tell you that you need to take a 10% cut... or look for a new job. MOST of the time, taking a voluntary pay cut gives you a bit of security. As it turns out, the crooked bastards that I used to work for only care about the bottom line. By making us all take pay cuts 3 weeks before we got laid off, their unemployment insurance went up by 10% LESS than it would have otherwise.


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## Parks and Rec (Apr 21, 2009)

At my last company we took a 10% pay cut starting in December 2008. I was laid off Dec 12, so my last paycheck and severnace was at the reduced rate. This is after the company converted 6 weeks of sick time into something I couldn't touch, punks.

Another local engineering company took a 15% pay cut followed by another 15% pay cut. This was on top of losing the company 401k match. So all total around 35%...That would be a big loss. I would 't want to work there for long. Assuming no raise for the next year, how long would it take to get back to pre-cut salary?


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 21, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> That's when they tell you that you need to take a 10% cut... or look for a new job. MOST of the time, taking a voluntary pay cut gives you a bit of security. As it turns out, the crooked bastards that I used to work for only care about the bottom line. By making us all take pay cuts 3 weeks before we got laid off, their unemployment insurance went up by 10% LESS than it would have otherwise.


So it was voluntary in the same way that taxes are voluntary.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 21, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> I took a "voluntary" 10% pay cut (but still had to work the full 40hrs) in February... less than 3 weeks later I got laid off... still looking for work


 First I've heard of this. Sorry to hear that, Tx. Good luck in the job search!


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 21, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> By making us all take pay cuts 3 weeks before we got laid off, their unemployment insurance went up by 10% LESS than it would have otherwise.


That's some unethical BS right there.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 21, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> That's some unethical BS right there.


Only slightly...


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## TXengrChickPE (Apr 21, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> So it was voluntary in the same way that taxes are voluntary.


precisely



FLBuff PE said:


> First I've heard of this. Sorry to hear that, Tx. Good luck in the job search!


Thanks.



Capt Worley PE said:


> That's some unethical BS right there.


Yeah... they also told the unemployment people that it was a temporary layoff, which has delayed my getting my unemployment benefits.


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## Chucktown PE (Apr 21, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> Yeah... they also told the unemployment people that it was a temporary layoff, which has delayed my getting my unemployment benefits.



You should seriously look at getting a lawyer. These guys sound like they're hurting for a lawsuit.


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## FLBuff PE (Apr 21, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> You should seriously look at getting a lawyer. These guys sound like they're hurting for a lawsuit.


Concur. If enough people had this same situation happen to them, class-action may be an option.


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## SSmith (Apr 21, 2009)

Your good uncle welcomes everyone with open arms.........


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## Dleg (Apr 21, 2009)

chaosiscash said:


> My type of nuke work is a bit different.
> Dleg, I'm currently at an A/E, and while our primary customer is the DOE, we do some commercial and DOD as well. We have a fair sized enviromental division, and we've got a large design-build project getting ready to start, so that will keep some of our civils busy for a while. We also have good sized infrastructure reduction projects, there are a lot of cold-war era buildings here in Oak Ridge, which are an enviromental nightmare, but that keeps that division fairly busy.
> 
> Oak Ridge is an old government town, and we're getting a lot of Obamabucks. Its a good thing, but its making it hard to find good employees, as all the local companies are getting pretty busy.


Ah... Oak Ridge... that should keep the clean up folks busy for a long time, I would imagine! I was curious because I thought you were involved in nuclear power (maybe you are?) and I was just wondering what kinds of jobs are available in that field, since I know so very little about it.

I know all about the demand for engineers that the Obamabucks are creating, especially in small and remote places like here, where the politicians ran off all the engineers and project managers several years ago. All of a sudden, my value has skyrocketed (but not my pay - working on that one now). I hear it's the same in certain parts of the mainland as well, you just have to be willing to move around to follow the money I guess.


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## rudy (Apr 22, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> So.....any of you guys been the recipient of the wonderful new cost saving measure the "Pay CUT"?
> I just found out that my NEW salary starting with the NEXT pay period will be 10% less than the last pay period!!!! yippeee!!
> 
> let me tell you...that's a big cut!


Sorry about that NCcarguy. I'm going thru the 10% pay cut. Well, more like the 8.3% pay cut. We're being asked (correction...told) to take 1 week off without pay every quarter (~ every 12 weeks). It is a big chunk, but I'm reducing my 401k contribution to help make up my take home pay, especially since they stopped matching contributions.



TXengrChickPE said:


> Yeah... they also told the unemployment people that it was a temporary layoff, which has delayed my getting my unemployment benefits.


Sorry about that TX. I agree with Chucktown and FLBuff, sounds like a law suit. A "temporary layoff", does that mean they didn't offer you a severance package? Did they make you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement in exchange for pay? Here, they give you 2 more weeks pay if you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 22, 2009)

Dleg said:


> Ah... Oak Ridge... that should keep the clean up folks busy for a long time, I would imagine! I was curious because I thought you were involved in nuclear power (maybe you are?) and I was just wondering what kinds of jobs are available in that field, since I know so very little about it.


I don't do any nuke power work right now, although one of my companies clients is TVA. Oak Ridge is mainly National Lab and Weapons Complex oriented, although there is some fuel enrichment work around here. But mainly we're into "modernization" (building new facilities to replace WWII and Cold War era ones, and then tearing down the old ones). Flyer is a nuke power guy.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 22, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> You should seriously look at getting a lawyer. These guys sound like they're hurting for a lawsuit.


I don't usually agree with taking this route, but it seems warranted in this case...


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## TXengrChickPE (Apr 22, 2009)

rudy said:


> Sorry about that TX. I agree with Chucktown and FLBuff, sounds like a law suit. A "temporary layoff", does that mean they didn't offer you a severance package? Did they make you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement in exchange for pay? Here, they give you 2 more weeks pay if you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement.


We got two weeks pay "in lieu of advance notice of the layoff". I'll need to dig out my copy of what I signed. I don't think it said anything about not suing.

But, the worst part of the whole thing is that if they offer me a job before I find something else, I HAVE to take it, or lose the unemployment. AND, I have to be willing to accept another 25% cut, according to TX unemployment rules.


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## EM_PS (Apr 22, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> You should seriously look at getting a lawyer. These guys sound like they're hurting for a lawsuit.





rudy said:


> Sorry about that TX. I agree with Chucktown and FLBuff, sounds like a law suit. A "temporary layoff", does that mean they didn't offer you a severance package? Did they make you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement in exchange for pay? Here, they give you 2 more weeks pay if you sign a "no lawsuit" agreement.


Hmm, most layoffs are typically 'temporary' in intent, unless you're actually being downsized or they're just flat cutting jobs out. That said, doesn't matter, you're entitled to unemployment compensation even if you're off for just a week. So even if all you're doing is waiting for getting "called back" to work (truly a temporary layoff), you are entitled to collect unemployment for whatever the prescribed term is. Surveyors up this way go thru this almost every winter.

Just sayin' my :2cents: before you go getting a sheister lawyer all up in your business.


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## TouchDown (Apr 22, 2009)

Sorry NC and TX.

I'm in manufacturing - our plant is pretty much down to 2 or 3 day weeks right now. In this particular mfg corporation - they place a % of your pay "at risk"... In other words, you will get 15% of your pay if your division meets all it's goals. If it misses, you get less. Right now, my at risk pay is pretty much 0%. So there goes 15% from my "normal" paycheck.

On top of that, they announced that there would be NO increases this year across the board. With insurance going up, etc. there's another knock in the pocketbook.

Times are getting tougher, but at least I still have a job. Good luck TX, hope a door or window opens up soon for you.


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## rudy (Apr 22, 2009)

Companies pay unemployment insurance for each employee while they are employed. At the end of the year, if the money is not used (i.e. the employee is still employed), the company gets it's money back. It's in the company's best interest to do what they can to avoid the former employee from getting a payout.

A co-worker of mine was told her position was going to be eliminated, but she had the option of still working for the company. They offered her a new job, which was basically a big demotion and much less pay. On top of that, she would be working a 12-hour shift, instead of an 8-hour one.

She refused. She got no severance package since they said it was like she had quit because they had given her an option to work. She was told that she would not get unemployment since she had quit. She applied for it anyway, and ended up getting it. She told me that the company didn't contest it, so it all went through. I don't know if it was a company oversight or if someone from the company was just trying to do the right thing.

Check out this link:

Texas Workforce Commission Mass Claims Process

It seems that even if you're a "temporary layoff", you still can file a claim.


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## maryannette (Apr 22, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I don't usually agree with taking this route, but it seems warranted in this case...


I don't normally agree with legal action, either, but I have contacted lawyers twice in the past when I felt that I had really been screwed by employers. Neither resulted in anything more than talk, but if employers are allowed to manipulate the system to get around the intent of laws that protect employees, they deserve whatever a lawyer can give them.

Sorry to hear about your bad luck, NC, and anyone else who is in similar situation. I haven't looked at the specific opportunities recently, but check out www.usajobs.gov

Good luck.


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## TXengrChickPE (Apr 23, 2009)

The way I understand it, I will get the money regardless of whether it's temporary or permanent. The problem is that our stories don't match, which means that the claim can't be processed until everyone has the same boxes checked. It's stupid, but I guess that's just the way bureaucracy works.


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## EM_PS (Apr 23, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> The way I understand it, *I will get the money regardless of whether it's temporary or permanent*. The problem is that our stories don't match, which means that the claim can't be processed until everyone has the same boxes checked. It's stupid, but I guess that's just the way bureaucracy works.


Yes, you will - Hang in there TX

My exp w/ lawyers is that they're pretty worthless (unless you've killed somebody or something) in these matters. They'll rack up a big bill while telling you info you already know, then tell you that their hands are tied on going forward. . .or that they could pursue it, but the outcome could likely take years, blah blah blah, how much do you want to spend to get xx$$ back, etc. In this case, you're legally entitled to compensation, so it pretty much is incumbent on whatever agency (probably a state agency) you deal w/ for unemploy bennies to get the crap worked out. There is no gray area here, like w/ a workman's comp case or something.

Good luck!


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 23, 2009)

My company has been relatively unaffected by the downturn, but there are some little annoying things going on here. The put a freeze on salary increases just as a precautionary measure in case the recession drags on for years. I also got called down to the President's office yesterday because he said that I wasn't working enough overtime. He based this solely on the timecard reports that showed other engineers working up to 37% overtime and me working none. I don't understand why my ability to do my job in 40 hours/week and others inability to do so, should reflect poorly on me. I am on two of the most time-demanding projects we currently have in house, yet I seem to be able to handle the workload without eating into my personal time. I know for a fact that there are a few hourly employees here that get paid overtime that do nothing during regular hours, then work nights and weekends at time and a half. It pisses me off that my productivity is being compared to theirs.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 23, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> My company has been relatively unaffected by the downturn, but there are some little annoying things going on here. The put a freeze on salary increases just as a precautionary measure in case the recession drags on for years. I also got called down to the President's office yesterday because he said that I wasn't working enough overtime. He based this solely on the timecard reports that showed other engineers working up to 37% overtime and me working none. I don't understand why my ability to do my job in 40 hours/week and others inability to do so, should reflect poorly on me. I am on two of the most time-demanding projects we currently have in house, yet I seem to be able to handle the workload without eating into my personal time. I know for a fact that there are a few hourly employees here that get paid overtime that do nothing during regular hours, then work nights and weekends at time and a half. It pisses me off that my productivity is being compared to theirs.


You're at an A/E, right? Do you get paid overtime? (straight-time or time and a half) Because if you don't (you should leave and) the reason your Pres wants you to work more overtime is because if you do, he can bill the client your full rate for your time and then use that money to offset overhead costs, since he doesn't have to pay you. If you do get paid overtime and the jobs you're on are time and materials, he probably wants to increase revenue. If the job is fixed price, then he's nuts if he wants you to work more even though you're getting things done.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 23, 2009)

chaosiscash said:


> You're at an A/E, right? Do you get paid overtime? (straight-time or time and a half) Because if you don't (you should leave and) the reason your Pres wants you to work more overtime is because if you do, he can bill the client your full rate for your time and then use that money to offset overhead costs, since he doesn't have to pay you. If you do get paid overtime and the jobs you're on are time and materials, he probably wants to increase revenue. If the job is fixed price, then he's nuts if he wants you to work more even though you're getting things done.


Yes, I'm at an A/E, and no, I don't get paid overtime. There are a few designers that get paid time and a half, but none of the salaried people get paid overtime. My boss said at our staff meeting on Monday that the President wanted everybody working at least 10% overtime. The first thing that popped into my head was "Well, I want to get paid at least 10% more for that work, but we don't always get what we want." I'm going along with it for now, mainly since I haven't really been here long enough to feel comfortable rocking the boat. But I will put up with this forced overtime and frozen raises for so long before I either quit or start to raise hell.


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## Chucktown PE (Apr 23, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Yes, I'm at an A/E, and no, I don't get paid overtime. There are a few designers that get paid time and a half, but none of the salaried people get paid overtime. My boss said at our staff meeting on Monday that the President wanted everybody working at least 10% overtime. The first thing that popped into my head was "Well, I want to get paid at least 10% more for that work, but we don't always get what we want." I'm going along with it for now, mainly since I haven't really been here long enough to feel comfortable rocking the boat. But I will put up with this forced overtime and frozen raises for so long before I either quit or start to raise hell.



That sucks. We have time sheets and we bill our clients based on the hours we work. If we don't bill it then we don't get paid for it. So if I work 50 hours a week I get paid for 50 hours a week. Unless I don't have a billable project and have to charge time to an overhead number. Then I don't feel right about billing overtime.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 23, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Yes, I'm at an A/E, and no, I don't get paid overtime. There are a few designers that get paid time and a half, but none of the salaried people get paid overtime. My boss said at our staff meeting on Monday that the President wanted everybody working at least 10% overtime. The first thing that popped into my head was "Well, I want to get paid at least 10% more for that work, but we don't always get what we want." I'm going along with it for now, mainly since I haven't really been here long enough to feel comfortable rocking the boat. But I will put up with this forced overtime and frozen raises for so long before I either quit or start to raise hell.


That's what I figured. They are still billing the clients for your 10% overtime, and then using it to help the books. Unpaid overtime is the single reason I left my last job. It gets old, real quick.


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## Chucktown PE (Apr 23, 2009)

chaosiscash said:


> That's what I figured. They are still billing the clients for your 10% overtime, and then using it to help the books. Unpaid overtime is the single reason I left my last job. It gets old, real quick.



I guess your firm doesn't put the hours billed on the invoices, or they lie about it? We include a personel list with number of hours charged to each phase of the project with each invoice.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 23, 2009)

Do you/did you guys still get quarterly bonuses on top of the overtime pay? We have an ESOP program and quarterly bonuses that come out of the pool over overtime money that isn't paid to salaried employees. I'm not sure if that is common to places that pay overtime as well though.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 23, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I guess your firm doesn't put the hours billed on the invoices, or they lie about it? We include a personel list with number of hours charged to each phase of the project with each invoice.


I was guessing at to what wilheldp_PE's firm is doing. My firm pays us (and bills clients) based on hours we work.

However, I have seen companies (my old one for example) that bill the client based on the hours you work (say 50), but only pay the employee for 40 (because they are "salaried"). They then use the extra income to offset overhead costs. Its not really lying about the number of hours charged to the client, because the folks are still working the hours, instead its screwing the employee to benefit the company bottom line. Its shady, but happens all the time. Once again, that's why I left.


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## chaosiscash (Apr 23, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Do you/did you guys still get quarterly bonuses on top of the overtime pay? We have an ESOP program and quarterly bonuses that come out of the pool over overtime money that isn't paid to salaried employees. I'm not sure if that is common to places that pay overtime as well though.


Depending on what level a person is where I work, they get bonuses. Project managers and group leaders, for example, get bonuses depending on how they meet their business development goals. But us worker bees don't get bonuses, other than the occasional atta-boy whenever a client specifically mentions someone's work to somebody in management.

Personally, I'll take hourly pay over a bonus anyday, but thats just me. At my old job, I once got a $1000 "bonus" for completing a specific high-priority task that took about 100 uncompensated overtime hours to finish (a lot of electrical work has to be done in the evenings or on weekends). After taxes that worked out to about $6.00 an hour. What a deal.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 23, 2009)

chaosiscash said:


> Depending on what level a person is where I work, they get bonuses. Project managers and group leaders, for example, get bonuses depending on how they meet their business development goals. But us worker bees don't get bonuses, other than the occasional atta-boy whenever a client specifically mentions someone's work to somebody in management.
> Personally, I'll take hourly pay over a bonus anyday, but thats just me. At my old job, I once got a $1000 "bonus" for completing a specific high-priority task that took about 100 uncompensated overtime hours to finish (a lot of electrical work has to be done in the evenings or on weekends). After taxes that worked out to about $6.00 an hour. What a deal.


Every employee gets a quarterly bonus here, but the hourly people get a much smaller bonus than salary people because their OT pay is considered part of their bonus. But it sucks when you don't have a profitable quarter even though you put in a bunch of hours. We had a "slightly" profitable quarter in 1Q09, and since the bonus pool wasn't full, they decided not to pay them out....then told us we need to work more overtime. To me, that is like saying "We fucked you on bonuses, we froze your salary, and now we want you to work more hours for less pay. Happy Wednesday!"


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## Chucktown PE (Apr 23, 2009)

Over a certain level (usually about 5 years of service for an engineer) we get annual bonuses based on the company's prior year financial performance. We didn't get raises this year but they said they were deferred, not eliminated. I'll believe it when I see it.

On a much sadder note, one of my good friends that I worked with in ATL was laid off last week. He wasn't an engineer but did financial consulting work for utilities. A lot of people in his division were laid off. The worst part is that his wife that is 6 months pregnant was laid off the same day. He also had a home building business on the side and has had two houses sitting on the market for a year now. And a he's had to help his in-laws out with money to the tune of $10,000 recently. I feel really bad for the guy. But I don't quite know how to help him out. I'm not really in a position to offer financial assistance.


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## Supe (Apr 23, 2009)

We get (or are supposed to get) bonuses at the end of the year that's directly related to the projects we charge our hours to. They assign a percentage for each pay grade to that project based on how close it gets to its goals, and charge off accordingly, i.e Bonus=((%A x hoursA x hourly rate)+(%B x hoursB x hourly rate) ...).


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 23, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> My boss said at our staff meeting on Monday that the President wanted everybody working at least 10% overtime.


I would have said, "I'm OK with that if you pay me 10% more."


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## snickerd3 (Apr 23, 2009)

Bonuses...what are those...we state empolyees don't get those. We have to get overtime preapproved before we work it and have a choice of cash or comp time. They have been pushing for us to take the cash though...their thinking is since comptime means you will be out of the office more you are creating a backlog which will require more OT eventually to finish. That logic doesn't apply to us, as when we ask for the OT it is usually because we are traveling back from a site visit, not in office work.


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## squishles10 (Jun 3, 2009)

TXengrChickPE said:


> We got two weeks pay "in lieu of advance notice of the layoff". I'll need to dig out my copy of what I signed. I don't think it said anything about not suing.
> But, the worst part of the whole thing is that if they offer me a job before I find something else, I HAVE to take it, or lose the unemployment. AND, I have to be willing to accept another 25% cut, according to TX unemployment rules.



hey tx- im also on unemployment in tx so let me give you the real lowdown on how it works. no one quote me on this.

first of all, they have no idea if youre offered another job or not, so when you fill out your weekly request for payment, just click the box that says you havent received an offer. same with the second part. how the hell are they going to know, read your mail??? they MIGHT know if its through that state website but i still doubt it. also that 5 a week thing is a joke. i ran out long ago. i think posts on here count as looking. and your in lieu of counts as pay so you cant collect until after that period is over but it should be now.


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## C-Dog (Jun 11, 2009)

We haven't officially had a pay cut, but our hours have been reduced for the year. We are getting 5 unpaid furlough days spread out around various holidays. It comes to about a 2% pay cut. Rumors are flying that their may be more days added to the 5, we will see.


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## squishles10 (Jun 11, 2009)

2% isnt bad, and at least you get the time off. not that you should be happy about it...

i just heard my first company (which has gone from ~200 people and 4 offices to ~40 people and 2 offices in 2 years) had a 10% cut around january and last week had a 20%. my guess is they havent had raises too recently either. this is in san diego where at least housing has dropped like a rock but pparently rental costs havent so ouch. id be broke right about now. making less than when i got out of college 6 years ago.


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## Sschell (Jun 11, 2009)

dude said:


> Dude... I would need to find a second job!
> Did they allow you to reduce the hours worked by 10%?


Well it finally got me... 10% cut. crap... I think I will start looking for that part time job to pick up the slack...


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## csb (Jun 11, 2009)

dude...that's no good


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 11, 2009)

Sorry dude. 10%, that totally sucks. I'm just waiting for the ass clowns in HR to send us the same news.


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## FLBuff PE (Jun 11, 2009)

Supposedly we get 5% BACK next paycheck, tghen the other 5% paycheck after that. We shall see.


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## SPSUEngineer (Jun 11, 2009)

Well I recently got a 10% cut also. I work in commercial site development. I'm not complaining one bit though. I enjoy what I do, where I work, and the people I work with. It does suck but I'm thankful to have a job making a decent income. It hurts but I'm not going hungry. Hope things turn around for all of us soon!


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## TouchDown (Jun 12, 2009)

We are able to "bank" vacation. It's a nice bonus thing to have. We can "bank" 2X what you earn per year. Average YOS of the plant is now at around 25 years and almost everyone is earning 5 weeks vacation. And most have 10 Weeks in their bank.

New policy mandated as of last year. The bank is closed. 1/2 of your bank must be exhausted this year as well as 1/2 next year. Meaning most of the people in the plant will have to exhaust 10 weeks of vacation this year (2.5 months) - or effectively we are staffed at approximately 80%.

No one liked the policy change, but it is helping keep us a float right now when volumes are at 40-50% of what they were compared to a year ago.

Announced last week on top of the "no pay increases this year and probably next year"... was that all hourly worker jobs will be re-evaluated for complexity and job grades may be dropped for certain jobs - that means that on top of no increases for the last 3 years for our hourly workforce, they are probably staring at a pay cut in the next few months.

That's hard to swallow for a lot of 25 year employees who are still 10 to 15 years away from retirement and would probably have a hard time finding a job now due to their skill level and experience.

Oh and gas jumped 15cents in the last couple weeks here.

*SMILE* this sucks, at least it's Friday and the liquor store is on the way home.


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## rudy (Jul 24, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> New policy mandated as of last year. The bank is closed. 1/2 of your bank must be exhausted this year as well as 1/2 next year. Meaning most of the people in the plant will have to exhaust 10 weeks of vacation this year (2.5 months) - or effectively we are staffed at approximately 80%.


That's how it started for us a few years ago. First we were able to carryover into the next year 2X our yearly earned vacation time. A few years down the road, we could only carryover 1X. A about a year later, we could only carryover 40 hours. Another year later, we can only carryover 20 hours. So the place is pretty much empty the last few weeks of the year.


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## TouchDown (Jul 24, 2009)

rudy said:


> That's how it started for us a few years ago. First we were able to carryover into the next year 2X our yearly earned vacation time. A few years down the road, we could only carryover 1X. A about a year later, we could only carryover 40 hours. Another year later, we can only carryover 20 hours. So the place is pretty much empty the last few weeks of the year.


Yeah, or banking ability on vacation is officially over. At the end of next year (2010), we can no longer carry over. To compensate, they allow you all your annual vacation on Jan 1... but, they say you don't "earn" it until the month of (ie. every month, you earn 1/12 of your annual allotment), and they will request a repayment of vacation if you use more than your monthly earnings and they lay you off...


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## snickerd3 (Jul 24, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> Yeah, or banking ability on vacation is officially over. At the end of next year (2010), we can no longer carry over. To compensate, they allow you all your annual vacation on Jan 1... but, they say you don't "earn" it until the month of (ie. every month, you earn 1/12 of your annual allotment), and they will request a repayment of vacation if you use more than your monthly earnings and they lay you off...


that's a slight bummer.


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## rudy (Dec 19, 2009)

We're getting our full pay re-instated, and the company will be matching 401k contributions again (up to 5%). Yipppeee!!!! Any one else getting their pay re-instated?


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## TouchDown (Dec 19, 2009)

rudy said:


> We're getting our full pay re-instated, and the company will be matching 401k contributions again (up to 5%). Yipppeee!!!! Any one else getting their pay re-instated?


Sort of. We didn't get any compensation increases the last 2 years. The talk is that the "annual increase" is on the table and could happen again in 2010. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'm going for a new tech grade to get a pay increase. Have to do some justification work for submittal for it, and no guarantee that it'll get approved at the division level, but i can hope right?

If all cards fall into place, I could get the annual increase and a new tech grade increase in the same year.


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## Capt Worley PE (Dec 21, 2009)

TouchDown said:


> We didn't get any compensation increases the last 2 years.


We haven't had a COLA since 2006, and we aren't getting one in 2010.


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## FLBuff PE (Dec 21, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> TouchDown said:
> 
> 
> > We didn't get any compensation increases the last 2 years.
> ...


Maybe if you ask them to re-stock the fridge in a nicer tone of voice.


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Excuse me...

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK

Just got cut down to 32 hours per week. Amounts to a 20% pay cut.


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## Flyer_PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Ouch! That sucks.


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## TranspoVA (Jan 6, 2010)

Woo hoo..for all my hardwork getting my PE...got a "sorry we dont give bonuses anymore, by the way the office did stellar this year but the company as a whole didnt, so no raise either, and you can try submitting an expense report for your test fees and what not but no promises...grrrrrr...

but guess I should be thankful for having a job when so many don't...but figured Id rant anyways....


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 6, 2010)

TranspoVA said:


> Woo hoo..for all my hardwork getting my PE...got a "sorry we dont give bonuses anymore, by the way the office did stellar this year but the company as a whole didnt, so no raise either, and you can try submitting an expense report for your test fees and what not but no promises...grrrrrr...
> but guess I should be thankful for having a job when so many don't...but figured Id rant anyways....


I'm pretty sure that everybody has that attitude right now, but companies are going to have to step up to the plate the second that the economy turns around or they risk losing all of their talent. They are alienating their employees by not offering raises or bonuses during tough times. So if they don't make things right when times are no longer tough, then there will be mass exodus of people looking to make up for lost income.


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 6, 2010)

TranspoVA said:


> Woo hoo..for all my hardwork getting my PE...got a "sorry we dont give bonuses anymore, by the way the office did stellar this year but the company as a whole didnt, so no raise either, and you can try submitting an expense report for your test fees and what not but no promises...grrrrrr...
> but guess I should be thankful for having a job when so many don't...but figured Id rant anyways....


That's why we're here. I got what amounts to a 25% pay CUT for getting my PE.


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## TranspoVA (Jan 6, 2010)

Which is why I feel bad complaining too much...I hate that for you FLBuff...hang in there only way it can go from here is up


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Could be worse. I'm still employed, with full bennies. I'm done bitching now. It doesn't do me any good. Don't feel bad complaining. That's why we're here, as I said. Someone always has it worse than you, but it still helps to let it out.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Sorry to hear that FLBuff. At least your wife has a job. If I get cut like that I don't have another source of income.


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## Supe (Jan 6, 2010)

On the upside, you now have time for a new hobby. Scrapbooking perhaps?


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Supe said:


> On the upside, you now have time for a new hobby. Scrapbooking perhaps?


No, my new hobby is trying to find a part-time job to help make up the difference.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jan 6, 2010)

Its official, I don't know if this means the economy is improving or what but today I found out we had just had our first defection.

We lost one of our Engineers. I knew he wasn't real happy and we haven't had raises in a while. Someone made him a offer and he tells me it amounted to about a 15% pay increase so he took it.

I didn't hear if Management tried to match offers, I know my boss isn't too pleased, but hey if he was that important, maybe you should evaluate his pay before he gets disgruntled and leaves, but most business people don't look at it that way.


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## Dexman1349 (Jan 6, 2010)

D. Kephart said:


> I didn't hear if Management tried to match offers, I know my boss isn't too pleased, but hey if he was that important, maybe you should evaluate his pay before he gets disgruntled and leaves, but most business people don't look at it that way.


Most businesses pay people the minimum amount for the employee to return, but conversely many employees work just hard enough to not get fired...


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## Kephart P.E. (Jan 6, 2010)

Dexman1349 said:


> D. Kephart said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't hear if Management tried to match offers, I know my boss isn't too pleased, but hey if he was that important, maybe you should evaluate his pay before he gets disgruntled and leaves, but most business people don't look at it that way.
> ...


I know there is a serious lack of trust on both sides....

I know I don't want to kill myself everyday at work and get little or zero compensation (or laid off at the first sign of a downturn) and on the other hand the boss doesn't want to give raises to people that are doing the minimum. This is usually why owners/partners work so hard (and well) they have a contract that specifically states what their compensation including bonus will be and what the criteria is.

I think the Company needs to do a better job clearly defining what the performance level that is expected and then compensating people for meeting those goals. That is where this particular Engineer fits in. He did everything asked of him and competently. We will likely be training whomever we hire in his place for quite a while.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Dexman1349 said:


> many employees work just hard enough to not get fired...


I thought that was just me and Peter Gibbons.


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## bigray76 (Jan 6, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> Excuse me...
> FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
> 
> Just got cut down to 32 hours per week. Amounts to a 20% pay cut.


FLBuff, sorry to hear that.

On my front here we had another 'Happy New Year' mass execution. I am still here, but there aren't a whole lot of people left in my department. Management already gave me the "it's going to be a long year" talk since I no longer have any staffers left to pinch hit for me when I am out.... basically, I am not allowed to be out! Looks like another year of sucking it up and going balls to the wall.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Ray, you might want to dust off the ol' resume and shop it around.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 6, 2010)

That's what I'm doing in 3 months.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Might want to do it now and beat the rush, chuck.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 6, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Might want to do it now and beat the rush, chuck.



Can't. I can't leave until 2 years after my relocation or I have to pay back the benefits.


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## humner (Jan 6, 2010)

D. Kephart said:


> Its official, I don't know if this means the economy is improving or what but today I found out we had just had our first defection.
> We lost one of our Engineers. I knew he wasn't real happy and we haven't had raises in a while. Someone made him a offer and he tells me it amounted to about a 15% pay increase so he took it.
> 
> I didn't hear if Management tried to match offers, I know my boss isn't too pleased, but hey if he was that important, maybe you should evaluate his pay before he gets disgruntled and leaves, but most business people don't look at it that way.


My future brother in law did just what you said, I wonder if it was him, LOL


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## jeb6294 (Jan 7, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> Supe said:
> 
> 
> > On the upside, you now have time for a new hobby. Scrapbooking perhaps?
> ...


Just heard that the IT weanie at the firm I used to work at jumped ship. Sounds like they cut everyone down to 32 hours and then I think he said they dropped him to 24 so he had to get a PT job waiting tables at Cracker Barrell. He just went to work for some lawyers' office downtown.

It's hard for me to feel too sorry for him though, he was a huge waste of overhead...used to brag about all the OT he was getting working at least 45 hours a week, but he spent most of his time surfing the web and playing on Twitter.


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