# looking for a new car



## squishles10 (Jul 24, 2009)

we've tried to buy a murano for a few months but we cant get one. options now are the fx35 or the xc60 but both obviously cost more than the murano. we'd rather not pay more. we dont want to go much smaller than the murano, but another option is the rdx, but that is the very smallest we could go. we cant go much bigger or it wont fit in the garage. im not so much concerned about msrp but what we can actually get the car for, and we want a new car, as we'll be keeping it for a really long time. with those criteria, any thoughts for or against anything?


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## maryannette (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't know what any of those are. I feel really dumb. All I know is I have a RAV4 and I really like it. Sorry.


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## rudy (Jul 24, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> we've tried to buy a murano for a few months but we cant get one.


Why can't you get one? There should be lots available if not in Dallas, then Houston, Austin, or San Antonio.

Have you considered the Honda Pilot? It's not huge, but it has plenty of room. It's similar in size as the XC60.

or the Toyota Highlander? The split seat option for the middle seats will give extra space for when the kids get older... avoiding "Don't touch my side" fights. As far as size, it's in between the FX35 and XC60.

Depending on the options you get, the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander are similar in price, but less expensive than the FX35 and XC60. I'd recommend a 6-cylinder option. Although it decreases your MPG in the city (will use more gas), you'll have more power. In the highway, the 4-cyclinder and 6-cylinder will have similar MPG.


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## SkyWarp (Jul 25, 2009)

You can get a dealer to order a car for you, and even negotiate on the price. I haven't driven one, but I'd like to try out the CVT transmission on the Murano.

I prefer the looks of the Murano, but the Toyota Venza is pretty comparable, but with better gas mileage, and hopefully Toyota reliability.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-...s/Toyota_Venza/

Between the FX, MDX, and XC60, and with the plan to keep it a long time, I'd go for the Acura or Infiniti for reliability.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 25, 2009)

Gotta be an engineer here:

budget?

amount of driving?

number &amp; size of passengers?

type of driving? (long trips? commuting? off road? short hops? heavy ice/snow?)

cargo you need to carry?

expected changes during the life of the car? (say adding two kids?)

and...anything else that matters to you?

style

performance

handling

gas mileage

repair frequency etc.


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## squishles10 (Jul 25, 2009)

we've looked all over texas. and oklahoma. theres one in missouri. the problem is its the end of the model year and they arent making any more so we have to choose from whats out there and there just arent many to choose from. we could have ordered one in a 3 day window in june for an august delivery, and had we known that we still wouldnt have one we would have done it. but theyre not making any more 2009s now anyway so no more ordering anyway.

i do not like the new pilot- the front is so ugly. the highlander is an options but we also have the problem where we cant find any. there are lots of hybrid ones but im not getting a hybrid suv for an extra $7k. actually if the rav4 was a tiny bit bigger itd be fine.

the 4 cylinder is the main reason i dont want the rdx. but the new ones jsut came out so maybe if we can get it soon we'll end up with that. that and i think if im buying a "luxury brand" i should get some cooler stuff on it, but dont get me started...

we want to pay around $35k for it, less is obviously better. more accurately, no more than $600 a month on the payment so a better interest rate plays into the price. right now i have no job so i wont drive it much but i assume ill drive it to work eventually, and itll be the main vacation driver. it should last through the addition of two or three kids, so kid friendly is important. an occasional ice storm but my sports car could handle it so thats irrelevant (dallas). cargo includes height (plants, grill etc from home depot) and length (furniture to take home), so folding down split seats is a must. i really really want a sunroof as my last two cars havent had one but i wont DIE without it. i might though.


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## roadwreck (Jul 25, 2009)

a $600 per month payment? Are you shitting me? My advice is find something used and pay for it outright. I don't care what interest payment you get car payments are a bad idea in my book.

Yes, my car is not flashy but it's best feature is it's paid for and all mine.


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## squishles10 (Jul 25, 2009)

i always have used cars and i always have a car payment because they dont last very long. that is without a down payment as we're still paying on my car until we get it sold. it wont be that high forever.


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## roadwreck (Jul 25, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> i always have used cars and i always have a car payment because they dont last very long. that is without a down payment as we're still paying on my car until we get it sold. it wont be that high forever.


So you are selling a car that you still have a payment on? And you are looking at buying a $35k car? In my book that is a very very bad idea.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 26, 2009)

^ I'm with RW. It's not a great idea to replace something you still owe money on. Simply wanting a new car is not a good enough reason to buy one in my opinion.


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## EM_PS (Jul 26, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> So you are selling a car that you still have a payment on? And you are looking at buying a $35k car? In my book that is a very very bad idea.





VTEnviro said:


> ^ I'm with RW. It's not a great idea to replace something you still owe money on. Simply wanting a new car is not a good enough reason to buy one in my opinion.


Selling a car while still owing on it is not a bad thing. . .as long as what you get for it is better than what you owe on it obviously. Cars inherently carry so much negative equity with them that essentially anything break even or above is a good thing.

Buying a $35k car while being unemployed pretty foolish though (in this economy?!). Unload the car if you have to, but probably better to gut it out (since you're admittedly not driving much) till you got a paycheck coming in again.

Finally, the Big 3 are all but giving vehicles away, consider domestic (i.e. Detroit) maybe?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 26, 2009)

^ Where ya been EM? Haven't seen much from you lately.


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## roadwreck (Jul 26, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> Selling a car while still owing on it is not a bad thing. . .as long as what you get for it is better than what you owe on it obviously. Cars inherently carry so much negative equity with them that essentially anything break even or above is a good thing.


Buying a brand new car while still owing money on your current vehicle is a terrible idea. New car values drop an enormous amount straight away, you have almost no hope of not being upside down even if you get a great deal. If you still owe money on your current car you have no business looking at a new car IMO.

I can see how changing vehicles in used cars may make sense if you can get a good deal and come out better off in the long run then what you are currently driving, but I'd still be inclined to stick it out with what I have if I owed money on it.


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## EM_PS (Jul 26, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ Where ya been EM? Haven't seen much from you lately.


Went thru a 'local' move (still in MI) in May and its been alot of work. keeping the pc at bay has kept me productive on all these friggin' projects. . .but i can't quit you EB!



roadwreck said:


> Buying a brand new car while still owing money on your current vehicle is a terrible idea. New car values drop an enormous amount straight away, you have almost no hope of not being upside down even if you get a great deal. If you still owe money on your current car you have no business looking at a new car IMO.
> I can see how changing vehicles in used cars may make sense if you can get a good deal and come out better off in the long run then what you are currently driving, but I'd still be inclined to stick it out with what I have if I owed money on it.


Agreed insomuch as buyer is unemployed considering a $35k vehicle.

A car isnt a commodity, its a tool, one you will never recoup your $$ (principle or maintenance) on. If you can trade a payment for a new payment (which you can adequately afford) while avoiding transferring any negative equity to the new loan (i.e. your trade-in is a wash or even gives you money in hand) i don't see why that is a terrible idea. It can be a proactive maneuver depending on your vehicular needs, and right now is a pretty good time to buy new. and this is assuming you're planning to eventually own your new vehicle outright and enjoy some years of having no monthly car payment.


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## MA_PE (Jul 26, 2009)

> A car isnt a commodity, its a tool,


I've seen a lot of "tools" driving cars, too.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 27, 2009)

squishles, other than agreeing with everyone else on this being a bad financial move I would double check that RDX for cargo purposes. We have an MDX and you can't haul much in it. My brother in law needed me to pick up some furniture for him in it and even with the seats folded down it won't hold much. I put a trailer hitch on ours so I can haul larger stuff if needed. The RDX is very small. I know it doesn't look it but the Highlander and the Murano have much more room. My wife and I looked at similar cars for similar purposes except that I wanted something that could tow a boat as well. For the record we bought a used MDX at an auction with 55k miles on it for $17k. The car is in near perfect condition and based on what I have read it should last quite a while, at least 150k miles.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 27, 2009)

I don't know why you think they stopped making Muranos, because they didn't. i suspect salesman chicanery there.

Anyway, I'm pretty much with the rest oif the group. Don't buy anything. Pay off what you have. You're probably upside down on it, which will hurt you.

I've never had a car that cost anywhere near 35K new. Just can't see spending that much money on a car. And I LOVE cars.


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## EM_PS (Jul 27, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> I've seen a lot of "tools" driving cars, too.






Capt Worley PE said:


> I've never had a car that cost anywhere near 35K new. Just can't see spending that much money on a car. And I LOVE cars.


If i had croaked as a teenager, i would roll over in my grave to hear i would someday think of a car as a tool - gearhead to minivan 'taxi'driver - it happens. . .


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 27, 2009)

> A car isnt a commodity, its a tool, one you will never recoup your $$ (principle or maintenance) on.


That's why, in general, I don't consider a car to be an investment, rather a purchase. An investment is something you think will grow in value over time. A car takes a dive as soon as you drive it off the lot.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 27, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> If i had croaked as a teenager, i would roll over in my grave to hear i would someday think of a car as a tool - gearhead to minivan 'taxi'driver - it happens. . .


I know, sad, isn't it?


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## MGX (Jul 27, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> If i had croaked as a teenager, i would roll over in my grave to hear i would someday think of a car as a tool - gearhead to minivan 'taxi'driver - it happens. . .


I'm in the same boat. In my teen years I was so passionate about cars I completed a vo tech course and got ASE certified. I worked 70 hours a week just because I loved cars and the money was good. The money spent fixing up my old hoopty with hot rod parts could have bought one very nice car that didn't need any hot rod parts!

Today however cars are mostly a money pit IMO.

Personally I'd buy whatever I could pay cash for, financing a depreciating item makes one a loser twice. You lose in the money lost in the value for the car and the second loss comes in the interest you pay to make the bank some money.

Isn't all this talk anti-American?


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## EM_PS (Jul 27, 2009)

I got a buddy from college who owned a '67 Mustang back then (late 80's) and still does. It had the venerable 200ci straight six. Now, it has some kind of prepped 351 and he has it set up primarily just for drag / bracket racing. Last runs i heard he was pulling was low 14's at just over 100mph (he blames it on wheelspin). He wants to put 4.11's in place of the 3.50's he's running now, and he says he's a "torque converter away" from running in the mid 12's. As good as it was to hear 'Ol Rusty the Stang' was still pounding the asphalt, i had to burst his bubble a little and tell him a V6 Mustang today will pull in 14's @ 100mph. I'm seriously torn between the nostalgia of that old Mustang prowling phat w/ a prepped V8, and the fact that today's V6 bone-stock Mustang could give him some serious competition.


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## MA_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> I got a buddy from college who owned a '67 Mustang back then (late 80's) and still does. It had the venerable 200ci straight six. Now, it has some kind of prepped 351 and he has it set up primarily just for drag / bracket racing. Last runs i heard he was pulling was low 14's at just over 100mph (he blames it on wheelspin). He wants to put 4.11's in place of the 3.50's he's running now, and he says he's a "torque converter away" from running in the mid 12's. As good as it was to hear 'Ol Rusty the Stang' was still pounding the asphalt, i had to burst his bubble a little and tell him a V6 Mustang today will pull in 14's @ 100mph. I'm seriously torn between the nostalgia of that old Mustang prowling phat w/ a prepped V8, and the fact that today's V6 bone-stock Mustang could give him some serious competition.



All true, but with us members of the geriatric set, that '67 has a mega-cool factor over the new stuff.


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## Flyer_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

^What he said. ld-025:

I still regret selling my old '71 Z28.


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## EM_PS (Jul 27, 2009)

Yeah, nothing like a non-smog equipped V8 loud&amp;proud out the tailpipes! - Assigned homework (esp for the young'uns) watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohq5xIOrNFQ


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 27, 2009)

I had a few ground pounders in my day, but, yeah, the new stuff can outperform them in every area except for maybe the 'cool factor.' I go with the more modern stuff now. You don't have to keep futzing with it and there is something to be said for not drawing attention to yourself.


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## Flyer_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

^ I guess the difference for me is that I wouldn't be happy with the old Z as a daily driver. Futzing with an old car is a blast so long as you don't have to have it running Monday morning in order to get to work.


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## Flyer_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> Yeah, nothing like a non-smog equipped V8 loud&amp;proud out the tailpipes! - Assigned homework (esp for the young'uns) watch this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohq5xIOrNFQ



There's a reason why that movie has always been ranked pretty high on the "Best Car Chase Ever" lists.


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## squishles10 (Jul 27, 2009)

okay, before everyone thinks im a complete financial idiot, heres the deal. we could pay off the loan on mine. we could pay cash on a new one. we could do both. so its not like we're going to run out of money if we take out these loans. we jsut dont want to run down the savings account by $40k when im unemployed. me being unemployed isnt that big of a deal- remember we live in texas and its not that expensive to live here. we live off of my husbands paycheck each month fine without me making anything, and that assumes i dont get unemployment, which i do. we have to get a bigger car, or we have to rent one to get stuff home. we have two TINY cars. we can wait until one comes along, but mine is 7 years old and is incredibly expensive to repair. ive spent over $2500 in the last month to fix it. its only worth $10,000. i do not owe that much on it. the next car we buy will not be an expensive to repair german car and we will be keeping it longer, and as soon as i am employed probably just lump sum pay it off.


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## MA_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

squish:

you're in TX and you need a bigger car. There can be only one solution-----&gt; GMC/Chevy Suburban. You want fancy? Get one in the Denali trim.

done.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 27, 2009)

> we jsut dont want to run down the savings account by $40k when im unemployed.


I'd just be happy to have $40k in the bank!


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 27, 2009)

My husband and I tend to drive cars ‘til they’re not fixable any more.

My brother buys new or late model used and sells them after owning them just a few years – perhaps before they’re paid off.

I was surprised to do the math and learn that we both spend about the same amount on transportation. My family puts on way more miles than his does – but his average car over the whole period we looked at is nicer and newer than my choices.

It all depends.

*******************************

If you're not tied to the SUV idea, consider a higher end mini-van. It really is the ideal car for a family and the nicer ones like Honda Odyessy get better mileage than a similar SUV and can carry cargo you wouldn't believe. And it's a comfy ride. And ours has carried around 8 people quite a few times in the short year and half we've owned it.


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## squishles10 (Jul 27, 2009)

oh good lord i dont want a suburban!


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 27, 2009)

not to beat a dead horse but Dave Ramsey says that the value of your vehicles should never be more than 50% of your annual income. So if you make $100k, the blue book value of your vehicles (include boats, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, airplanes, etc) should not be more than $50k. Also, I don't know if anyone has read The Millionaire Next Door  but one thing I learned in reading that book is that most rich people (defined by a net worth of &gt; $1 million) drive used cars. Dave Ramsey also says you shouldn't buy a new car unless you have a net worth of &gt; $1 million.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 27, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> oh good lord i dont want a suburban!


Get a Tahoe. Nice used Tahoes can be had all day for about 20K.

Ford Edge is a pretty nice vehicle and can be had cheaply.

But seriously, I'd go with a Suburbayukahoe.


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## squishles10 (Jul 27, 2009)

thats probably because rich people can afford to fix them when they break... i prefer the warranty. this is the first new car ill ever have owned but every other used car hasnt lasted long enough to have been worth it. if my first car had been new it would have been a better deal. i get rid of the used ones when the cost me around a third of their value in a shirt period of time and their older than 6 years. at that point i figure im just going to be dumping money in them and i dont like having cars in the shop all the time- too much of a hassle. i like to drive what i pay for.


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## MA_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> oh good lord i dont want a suburban!


heck! there's a LOT of 'em down in Texas.

you never know.

My SIL has driven 'burbans / Yukon XLs since 'their first son was born in '88. They have 3 kids and when we all went out, thier family of 5 and our family of 4 we generally could get by with one vehicle (when the kids were small we could squeeze 4 across in either the second or third seat). Of course all the kids drive now so she's "down-sized" to a Range Rover HSE, but they keep a 'burban in the stable for those nights when 6+ adults want to go somewhere.

If you get the room it's easy to fill it up.

When our kids were younger my wife had a full-size Caprice wagon. (sigh) they just don't make 'em like that anymore.


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## Supe (Jul 27, 2009)

Have you considered the Hyundai SUV's? Kind of hard to beat the warranty on those things.


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## benbo (Jul 27, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> not to beat a dead horse but Dave Ramsey says that the value of your vehicles should never be more than 50% of your annual income. So if you make $100k, the blue book value of your vehicles (include boats, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, airplanes, etc) should not be more than $50k. Also, I don't know if anyone has read The Millionaire Next Door  but one thing I learned in reading that book is that most rich people (defined by a net worth of &gt; $1 million) drive used cars. Dave Ramsey also says you shouldn't buy a new car unless you have a net worth of &gt; $1 million.


I have two cars with 150K miles plus on each. I'd be surprised if the value of my vehicles is 5% of my salary.

But people look at me sort of funny. Probably not because of the cars though.

I bought them new, and both are over 12 years old. So I think I got my money's worth.


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## Flyer_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

^ I tend to buy new and Run To Failure also.

I still have my 1991 Toyota MR2 that I purchased new in May of 1990

1999 GMC Sierra also purchased new

2004 Jeep Liberty

They are all paid for. I was thinking about a new truck and even test drove a couple. However, when it came time to figure out the financing, I found the idea of having no car payment was far more appealing than having a shiny new truck.


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## benbo (Jul 27, 2009)

Flyer_PE said:


> They are all paid for. I was thinking about a new truck and even test drove a couple. However, when it came time to figure out the financing, I found the idea of having no car payment was far more appealing than having a shiny new truck.


I don't know what I'll do when I have to replace one of mine. They really require remarkably little maintenance at this point.

New cars were so expensive, but with the auto company problems I guess they're coming down a bit.

A late model, low mileage used car is probably the best deal. But at some point you get diminishing returns for a cheaper car, in my opinion.


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 27, 2009)

The one vehicle I was pleasantly surprised with is the Jeep Commander. Its built on the same platform as the Grand Cherokee, but has more interior space. Ours has the available 3rd row seating &amp; all-wheel drive (a must in Colorado if you don't have front wheel or available 4-wheel drive), but we only have the base 3.7L V6. The V6 engine has a ton of aftermarket parts available to boost HP and MPG (factory still puts out about 20 with how we drive). We bought ours used about 3 months ago (2008 with 20k miles) for $17,500. Even with an aftermarket warranty our payments are still under $400.

Plenty of power, space, &amp; comfort as an all-around driver with the kiddos. It has enough space to haul a roll-top desk inside and still being able to close the hatch (we did it 2 weeks ago).


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## MonteBiker (Jul 27, 2009)

My two cents...

Save the money on car maintenance by buying a bike. We have a small car (98 with 100k on it - and it runs like a champ) and a small truck ('03 with 35k on it and it rides like a chump... what can i say. Its a ford.) The truck is the only vehicle I have ever bought new and I don't think I would do it again.

The car is our primary vehicle and I drive the truck once or twice a week. All other trips are done by bike. I would imagine that we will have the car for another 75-100k.

I was actually reading one of the Ramsey books last night and came across one of the little things that bothers me about him. He tries to argue against buying new cars as they can lose $18,000 of value in the first few years. My new vehicle didn't cost $18k. Stay out of debt by buying what you need... not necessarily what you want. A car is a tool, not a lifestyle.


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## MA_PE (Jul 27, 2009)

MonteBiker said:


> A car is a tool, not a lifestyle.


Is there an echo in here?

tool?


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 27, 2009)

MonteBiker said:


> My two cents...
> Save the money on car maintenance by buying a bike. We have a small car (98 with 100k on it - and it runs like a champ) and a small truck ('03 with 35k on it and it rides like a chump... what can i say. Its a ford.) The truck is the only vehicle I have ever bought new and I don't think I would do it again.
> 
> The car is our primary vehicle and I drive the truck once or twice a week. All other trips are done by bike. I would imagine that we will have the car for another 75-100k.
> ...


Only issue with this is that she indicated she needs something capable of hauling cargo/kid(s). I really want a motorcycle to do my daily commuting with, but because I have to drop 2 kids (both under 4) off at daycare, it's a little difficult. I would suspect a bicycle would face similar problems (plus the additional strain of peddling for the extra weight).


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## EM_PS (Jul 27, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> okay, before everyone thinks im a complete financial idiot


^

:withstupid:

:joke:


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## SkyWarp (Jul 27, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> not to beat a dead horse but Dave Ramsey says that the value of your vehicles should never be more than 50% of your annual income. So if you make $100k, the blue book value of your vehicles (include boats, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, airplanes, etc) should not be more than $50k. Also, I don't know if anyone has read The Millionaire Next Door  but one thing I learned in reading that book is that most rich people (defined by a net worth of &gt; $1 million) drive used cars. Dave Ramsey also says you shouldn't buy a new car unless you have a net worth of &gt; $1 million.


 What's the reasoning for the 50% level?
I've been thinking about getting a new car, but it's been new car vs used car at the same price.


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## rudy (Jul 27, 2009)

CivE Bricky said:


> If you're not tied to the SUV idea, consider a higher end mini-van. It really is the ideal car for a family and the nicer ones like Honda Odyessy get better mileage than a similar SUV and can carry cargo you wouldn't believe. And it's a comfy ride. And ours has carried around 8 people quite a few times in the short year and half we've owned it.


If you're planning on the vehicle being the travel vehicle and lasting thru 3 children, a van is the way to go. When the kids are babies, you'll need to haul around all of their stuff... stroller, portable crib, walker, bouncy chair, toys, etc... And that's just for one baby.

When we had our first-born, my husband got a van. I thought this was a bad idea for just the three of us. But it was the best idea ever. We got a Chrysler Town and Country, with the removable middle and back seats. This allowed us extra room for the kids' stuff, especially when travelling. We could pull the seats out or pull the backs all the way down, leaving the seats open and flat, for more room. As our kids got older, fitting 7 in the van was very helpful, especially when their friends joined us on family outtings. Our kids are bigger now, so we moved away from a van and got an SUV.

Our Chrysler's transmission broke down on it's 5-year anniversary. I later found out that this is common in Chryslers. I"d recommend an Honda Odyssey for reliability. They are roomy too.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 28, 2009)

SkyWarp said:


> I've been thinking about getting a new car, but it's been new car vs used car at the same price.


I was in the same boat about a year ago. New Yaris hatchback vs. a year old Malibu Maxx. Same price.

Bought the Maxx. It was a hell of a lot more car for the money.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 28, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Bought the Maxx. It was a hell of a lot more car for the money.


You could say it was Maxximum car for the money.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 28, 2009)

SkyWarp said:


> What's the reasoning for the 50% level?
> I've been thinking about getting a new car, but it's been new car vs used car at the same price.


The reasoning for the 50% is that he says you shouldn't have so much of your income tied up in a depreciating asset (and 99% of cars are depreciating assets). Also, with most new cars, they lose about 20% of their value in the first year. So on a $30,000 car, it loses $6,000 in value. If you assume you are going to own the car for 10 years, the question you have to ask yourself is "If I buy this car am I going to make an additional $6,000 in repairs over the life of the car because I bought it one year old?". That's why I don't buy new cars.

FWIW, I'm not a Ramsey Kool-Aid drinker but I do follow most of his advice.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 28, 2009)

American sedans are a bargain on the used lots. You can buy a lot of car for &lt;20K.


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## CivE Bricky (Jul 28, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Bought the Maxx.


I got a 2004 Maxx (new) too. 150K on it now. It goes thru brakes like nobody's bizness, but my original crush hasn't gone sour.


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## MechGuy (Jul 28, 2009)

rudy said:


> If you're planning on the vehicle being the travel vehicle and lasting thru 3 children, a van is the way to go. When the kids are babies, you'll need to haul around all of their stuff... stroller, portable crib, walker, bouncy chair, toys, etc... And that's just for one baby.
> When we had our first-born, my husband got a van. I thought this was a bad idea for just the three of us. But it was the best idea ever. We got a Chrysler Town and Country, with the removable middle and back seats. This allowed us extra room for the kids' stuff, especially when travelling. We could pull the seats out or pull the backs all the way down, leaving the seats open and flat, for more room. As our kids got older, fitting 7 in the van was very helpful, especially when their friends joined us on family outtings. Our kids are bigger now, so we moved away from a van and got an SUV.
> 
> Our Chrysler's transmission broke down on it's 5-year anniversary. I later found out that this is common in Chryslers. I"d recommend an Honda Odyssey for reliability. They are roomy too.



I agree with thinking about a minivan. I was totally against them until we had our 2nd (and now 3rd) child and my wife convinced me to buy one. We own a Nissan Quest and we love it. Its comfortable to drive, and is way easier to travel with the kids than the SUV (Ford Explorer). It has the same engine as the Maxima, so it has some get up and go too.

Oh, and I'm in San Antonio and see lots of Muranos on the lots here. I don't know why you can't find one?


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## Katiebug (Jul 28, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> So you are selling a car that you still have a payment on? And you are looking at buying a $35k car? In my book that is a very very bad idea.


Word. Especially when unemployed. We waited until my husband was working again to seriously consider trading in MY car. Even though my job seems relatively stable, we didn't want to risk becoming overextended (and we were able to live very comfortably on my income alone and bank his unemployment checks). And a $35K car is just insane if you haven't paid off your trade in.

We're considering a small to midsize crossover, preferably MSRP under $25K (our trade in will be about $5K and we don't want to finance much more than $20K). I figure just about any vehicle in the class can get three car seats across the back seat if they're the right car seats, and heaven help me if I have more than three kids! We found that by distilling down to our requirements (crossover, seats 5, AWD, gets good gas mileage) and price range, it helped to focus our search. On our short list: Chevy Equinox (the 2010 model year), Ford Escape, Honda CR-V, Toyota Rav4, and Subaru Forester (I was originally ruling out an American car but we're very impressed by the new Equinox).


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## squishles10 (Jul 28, 2009)

i refuse to drive a minivan since we dont have kids yet.

i think the 50% is reasonable. even if you count his car's new value, we're still under 50%.

there has been a lot of discussion right now about whether to buy new or used. new cars are coming with huge discounts that pretty much remove the first year of depreciation compared to a one year old identical car, with better financing, and an extra year of warranty. this obviously depends on the specific car youre looking at, but dont blanket statement used cars are better before you crunch the numbers.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 28, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> i refuse to drive a minivan since we dont have kids yet.
> i think the 50% is reasonable. even if you count his car's new value, we're still under 50%.
> 
> there has been a lot of discussion right now about whether to buy new or used. new cars are coming with huge discounts that pretty much remove the first year of depreciation compared to a one year old identical car, with better financing, and an extra year of warranty. this obviously depends on the specific car youre looking at, but dont blanket statement used cars are better before you crunch the numbers.


The used car market is very hot right now, the dealer that sold my girlfriend her Mazda 3 in 2006 called her up to see if she was interested in selling it. So it may make more sense with the $4500 government money to buy new.


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 29, 2009)

D. Kephart said:


> The used car market is very hot right now, the dealer that sold my girlfriend her Mazda 3 in 2006 called her up to see if she was interested in selling it. So it may make more sense with the $4500 government money to buy new.


We had the same thing happen when we bought our 2005 Jetta new back in 2006 as well.

Don't get too excited about that offer. Alot of dealerships simply do that to get people in the door and "upgrade" into a new car. It's only a sales ploy.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 29, 2009)

You mean they really don't need my old jalopy as much as they say?

I'm still getting letters for a car I got rid of close to a year ago.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 29, 2009)

Dexman1349 said:


> We had the same thing happen when we bought our 2005 Jetta new back in 2006 as well.
> Don't get too excited about that offer. Alot of dealerships simply do that to get people in the door and "upgrade" into a new car. It's only a sales ploy.


She was not interested because she loves that damn car even if she has way too many speeding tickets in it.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 29, 2009)

^ I get letters from Honda all the time that it's time to turn in my 2001 CRV (all paid off thank you) because its such a hot used car and I can get big time trade in value for it.

I could probably get about $5k for it right now, but then I'd have to take on payments on a new one again, which I'm not up for.

I never understood people that were obsessed with getting max trade in value on a car and swap it every 3-5 years. It means you always have payments.


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## TouchDown (Jul 29, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ I get letters from Honda all the time that it's time to turn in my 2001 CRV (all paid off thank you) because its such a hot used car and I can get big time trade in value for it.
> I could probably get about $5k for it right now, but then I'd have to take on payments on a new one again, which I'm not up for.
> 
> I never understood people that were obsessed with getting max trade in value on a car and swap it every 3-5 years. It means you always have payments.


I really enjoyed the last year and a half where we didn't have car payments... but my desire to have a truck led us into more payments and here we are.

It was uncomfortable for me to dish out $200 a month for a pickup.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 29, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ I get letters from Honda all the time that it's time to turn in my 2001 CRV (all paid off thank you) because its such a hot used car and I can get big time trade in value for it.
> I could probably get about $5k for it right now, but then I'd have to take on payments on a new one again, which I'm not up for.
> 
> I never understood people that were obsessed with getting max trade in value on a car and swap it every 3-5 years. It means you always have payments.


I like my 2006 CRV so if I ever needed a new car i'd probably get another one, but I don't like the body style of the current design. They made it a shorter vehicle that looks more like a station wagon. I prefer to sit a little higher off the ground.

no car payments is a great feeling.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 29, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ I get letters from Honda all the time that it's time to turn in my 2001 CRV (all paid off thank you) because its such a hot used car and I can get big time trade in value for it.


Funny thing is that it was a Honda dealership writing me, too. But the car in question was a Nissan Sentra. I doubt that it really was "a car in great demand," as stated in the letter, by much of anyone.


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## EM_PS (Jul 29, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> i refuse to drive a minivan


In Texas? gotta roll in one of these. . .



snickerd3 said:


> I like my 2006 CRV so if I ever needed a new car i'd probably get another one, but I don't like the body style of the current design. They made it a shorter vehicle that looks more like a station wagon. I prefer to sit a little higher off the ground.
> no car payments is a great feeling.


I like the look of the Ford Flex - but having no car payment on our Honda Ody is a wonderful thing. Only Chrysler carries a minivan anymore, among the Big 3


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## Katiebug (Jul 30, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> I like the look of the Ford Flex - but having no car payment on our Honda Ody is a wonderful thing. Only Chrysler carries a minivan anymore, among the Big 3


We saw a Flex in person the other day and found the exterior styling absolutely beastly. It sort of looks like a hearse, IMO. I think the Flex is a love-it-or-hate-it sort of vehicle, and for that sort of money I'd get a Honda Pilot or Chevy Traverse. I preferred the Ford Edge in terms of styling but alas, the Edge is well outside our price range. We also decided that the Escape is really lacking in back seat legroom, so it's now off our list. We didn't even bother test-driving it.

We're now down to three serious contenders: Honda CR-V, Subaru Forester, and Chevy Equinox. The Forester looks nice and is priced well, but everything I read indicates that Subarus are nightmares for installing child car seats, and it's next to impossible to install _any_ car seat in the middle of the current Forester. Since the middle of the back seat is the safest location for a car seat, this concerns us. This is going to be our family hauler for the next 5-odd years and we need to be able to put a car seat in any of the rear three seating positions. We might borrow a car seat from my SIL and see if we can install it properly or not when we go on our test drive.

I really like both the CR-V and Equinox. The 'Nox is a little on the high side for MSRP to equip comparably to the CR-V, but Chevy is giving some nice incentives at the moment that may make it about the same price out-the-door.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 30, 2009)

What year 'nox? The 'nox is all new, and much better for '10. No discounts on that one. But the outgoing version is nice with the Sport model. That's also the only one that doesn't come with a Chinese made engine.

No Chinamotor in the '10!


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 30, 2009)

You could get a Nissan Cube.







I saw one on the street yesterday. UGLIEST. CAR. EVAR! I never thought anything could be uglier than the Pontiac Asstek, but I was wrong.


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## MGX (Jul 30, 2009)

I too witnessed a Nissan Cube earlier in the week and its visage is indeed grotesque. Whatever aesthetic it aims for it certainly fails.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 30, 2009)

Cube is a foul thing.


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## jmbeck (Jul 30, 2009)

I have to say I'm more than a bit bothered by the "that's an incredibly poor financial decision" talk.

Squishles asked for your opinion on a car, not on her financial situation. Even more relevant, she's not asking one of you to pay for it.

I enjoy driving a new car. I like the new car smell, I like the way a new car drives, and I like to have a new model year car. I pay a premium for these preferences, one that some people don't think it is worth. I trade cars every one to two years, and I've never been upside down in a vehicle. Yes, I pay more to be able to do that. Technically, a case of beer is a poor financial decision too, but I buy that because I enjoy it also.

That's my opinion. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it wrong either. Same goes for Squishles.

Squishles - Have you considered an Acadia/Outlook/Enclave/Traverse? My wife has an Outlook, and my mom just bought an Acadia. We've been pleased with them. My wife can get 24-26 MPG, and it has a lot of room. My mom went from a Tahoe to her Acadia, and is surprised at how much more room the Acadia has, especially in the third row. Now, I have two uncles that retired from GM, so I'm partial to their products. However, I think it's at least worth looking at considering your restraints.


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## Katiebug (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> What year 'nox? The 'nox is all new, and much better for '10. No discounts on that one. But the outgoing version is nice with the Sport model. That's also the only one that doesn't come with a Chinese made engine.
> No Chinamotor in the '10!


The '10. The '09 is decent, but the '10 is really looking like a good competitor to the Rav4 and CR-V. Actually, most of the Chevy dealerships around here don't have many of the '09s on their lots. The one down the road has three of the '10s and only one of the '09s (and it's the fully-loaded one at that, which isn't going to happen even with the deals they're offering now).

I have a GM supplier discount that I may resort to if we go with the Nox and can't negotiate a better deal, and the $1000 Conquest cash is still available on the '10s. GM clearly expects it to be a big hit, so I wouldn't expect stellar deals on it for a while.



MGX said:


> I too witnessed a Nissan Cube earlier in the week and its visage is indeed grotesque. Whatever aesthetic it aims for it certainly fails.


The Cube is truly beastly-looking. That said, I don't like any of the "box on wheels" vehicles that have been out in recent years. Mr. Bug's cousin has an Element and I don't like it at all (for more reasons than being a box on wheels). I prefer vehicles with some curves to them (as one might expect from a New Beetle owner).



jmbeck said:


> Squishles - Have you considered an Acadia/Outlook/Enclave/Traverse? My wife has an Outlook, and my mom just bought an Acadia. We've been pleased with them. My wife can get 24-26 MPG, and it has a lot of room. My mom went from a Tahoe to her Acadia, and is surprised at how much more room the Acadia has, especially in the third row. Now, I have two uncles that retired from GM, so I'm partial to their products. However, I think it's at least worth looking at considering your restraints.


The Acadia is very, very nice. A guy at work (whose dad is a big muckety-muck with GM) just got an Acadia and we were drooling over it in the parking lot. I also like the Traverse. Those Lambda platform CUVs are very nice overall. We would probably go with a Traverse or Acadia if it was in our budget, but we can't get one with the options we'd want for a price that we're comfortable paying. Just a personal choice there.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

> The Acadia is very, very nice.


Oughta be. Holy crap that's an expensive vehicle. I really didn't expect them to be that expensive. First one I saw was 41K! Since then, i haven't seen one under 35K at the dealer. That is insane to me.

But, to each his own.


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 31, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> I have to say I'm more than a bit bothered by the "that's an incredibly poor financial decision" talk.
> Squishles asked for your opinion on a car, not on her financial situation. Even more relevant, she's not asking one of you to pay for it.
> 
> I enjoy driving a new car. I like the new car smell, I like the way a new car drives, and I like to have a new model year car. I pay a premium for these preferences, one that some people don't think it is worth. I trade cars every one to two years, and I've never been upside down in a vehicle. Yes, I pay more to be able to do that. Technically, a case of beer is a poor financial decision too, but I buy that because I enjoy it also.
> ...


+1

I too enjoy driving new vehicles. While I don't turn them over as quickly as jmbeck, I still turn over a vehicle in about 3-4 years. I am willing &amp; comfortable with paying this premium. I understand both sides of the argument.

I always have this argument with my parents each time I get a new car. They feel a car is used to get from point A to point B, that's it. I however, LOVE TO DRIVE. Because I spend ~3 hours per day behind the wheel of my car, I want that car to have every creature comfort I can (leather, heated seats, satilite radio, etc.) and also have a performance aspect that makes the ~3 hours per day enjoyable (spory suspension, powerful engine, etc).

If you want to drive a 4-5 year old car, good for you. I have no issues with what you choose to do with your money, but I do ask that the financial lectures be saved for your kids.


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## jmbeck (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Oughta be. Holy crap that's an expensive vehicle. I really didn't expect them to be that expensive. First one I saw was 41K! Since then, i haven't seen one under 35K at the dealer. That is insane to me.
> But, to each his own.


The base price on a GMC Acadia SLT is only $2000 more than a Toyota Highlander limited and equal in price to a Toyota 4Runner Limited. With what I thought is a much roomier vehicle. Also, I know you can't get Navigation on the Highlander, not sure about the 4Runner, but that in itself is a $2000 option. The sunroof option on the Acadia is actually two pieces, and thus more expensive as well.

My wife really wanted a Highlander before she saw the Outlook. When we were comparing the two (comparably equipped), they were equally priced, in our experience.

I know it's the cool thing for everyone to slam on vehicles from the "Big Three", so if that's the case don't let a little thing like the facts get in the way.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> I have to say I'm more than a bit bothered by the "that's an incredibly poor financial decision" talk.
> Squishles asked for your opinion on a car, not on her financial situation. Even more relevant, she's not asking one of you to pay for it.
> 
> I enjoy driving a new car. I like the new car smell, I like the way a new car drives, and I like to have a new model year car. I pay a premium for these preferences, one that some people don't think it is worth. I trade cars every one to two years, and I've never been upside down in a vehicle. Yes, I pay more to be able to do that. Technically, a case of beer is a poor financial decision too, but I buy that because I enjoy it also.
> ...


She brought the financial stuff into the discussion. Had she left at "what do you think of these particular models" then the conversation never would have gone down that road, but when she started mentioning payments and prices the financial side of the equation becomes fair game



squishles10 said:


> we want to pay around $35k for it, less is obviously better. more accurately, no more than $600 a month on the payment so a better interest rate plays into the price. right now i have no job so i wont drive it much but i assume ill drive it to work eventually, and itll be the main vacation driver.


Telling people that you are looking for a $35k car when you don't have a job should raise a red flag


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> I know it's the cool thing for everyone to slam on vehicles from the "Big Three", so if that's the case don't let a little thing like the facts get in the way.


We own three Chevies, and our direct families have nothing but American cars, so, no, that isn't the case. I just was surpised by the cost. I thought they were gonna be a good bit cheaper.


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## jmbeck (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> We own three Chevies, and our direct families have nothing but American cars, so, no, that isn't the case. I just was surpised by the cost. I thought they were gonna be a good bit cheaper.


Sorry, I admit I was being a goober with that last comment. I allowed an earlier conversation with a co-worker about his new Tundra. Being a generally nice guy (above instance excluded), I asked him if he liked his new truck and other general questions. He then proceeds to tell me how Toyota makes a superior vehicle to every other car on the road, and that the Tundra is the best full-sized truck ever and that GM, Ford, and Dodge were incredible pieces of crap and he doesn't understand why people still buy those because they can't compete.

I drive a GMC Sierra.

So, while I was trying to allow this guy a chance to share in his happiness about his new vehicle, he runs every vehicle I've ever owned down in the process.

And that happens very frequently.

Notice I didn't say "American cars", because there's no such thing anymore. There are a lot of so called "American cars" built in Mexico, Canada, and elsewhere. Additionally, there are more Southerners (my people) employed by Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and the like than the big three has ever considered.

However, we still consider the big three the "American cars". I don't know, but I'm assuming that, dollar for dollar, more of what you spend on a vehicle from the big three stays in America. But I don't know that for sure. However, that assumption is what keeps me buying from GM and Ford. But, I don't fault anyone that doesn't, nor do I consider them un-American, especially considering the multitude of "foreign" assembly plants in the South.

I also don't talk about someone else's choice in vehicles because it's a major cost that most people take pride in. We don't wash our cars for nothing. We want them to look good. So, I'm not going to run someone else's vehicle down because of that.


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## jmbeck (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> She brought the financial stuff into the discussion. Had she left at "what do you think of these particular models" then the conversation never would have gone down that road, but when she started mentioning payments and prices the financial side of the equation becomes fair game
> Telling people that you are looking for a $35k car when you don't have a job should raise a red flag


And I just took it that it was another constraint for vehicle recommendations. Such as "You know, Nissan has 0% financing".

Additionally, she was adding it will become a high mileage vehicle once she gets a job.

I'm just pointing out that this thread quickly became an "OMG, you're ignorant for considering a new car, especially with no job, buy a 5 year old Corolla!".

And maybe I'm wrong. I just know that I wouldn't like the condescending attitude in a lot of these posts directed toward me.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

No problem. Just wanted you to know it really wasn't a slam.

Oddly enough, two of our Chevies are made in America. One was made in Canada.


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## Dexman1349 (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> No problem. Just wanted you to know it really wasn't a slam.
> Oddly enough, two of our Chevies are made in America. One was made in Canada.


Lol. My "German Engineered" Jetta was made in Mexico... At one point last year I was talking with some VW enthusiasts and they said something to the effect that there are only about 2-3 VW models available that are actually made in Germany. The rest are in Canada / Mexico.


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## jmbeck (Jul 31, 2009)

Dexman1349 said:


> Lol. My "German Engineered" Jetta was made in Mexico... At one point last year I was talking with some VW enthusiasts and they said something to the effect that there are only about 2-3 VW models available that are actually made in Germany. The rest are in Canada / Mexico.


I do know that the old Bug was available in Mexico, I believe right up until the new one premiered. I was 15 in Cozumel, and saw a brand new bug, plastic on the seats and everything. My initial (dumb) thought was "wow, they really have that car in pristine condition for it's age.

Probably unrelated, but I thought I'd share.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

My 89 Civic was made in Canada. My 02 Sentra was made in Mayheeco.

FWIW, I think the American companies caught up with the Japanes brands in the mid nineties. My 98 Ranger was a well put together peice.


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## Hill William (Jul 31, 2009)

Dexman1349 said:


> +1
> I too enjoy driving new vehicles. While I don't turn them over as quickly as jmbeck, I still turn over a vehicle in about 3-4 years. I am willing &amp; comfortable with paying this premium. I understand both sides of the argument.
> 
> I always have this argument with my parents each time I get a new car. They feel a car is used to get from point A to point B, that's it. I however, LOVE TO DRIVE. Because I spend ~3 hours per day behind the wheel of my car, I want that car to have every creature comfort I can (leather, heated seats, satilite radio, etc.) and also have a performance aspect that makes the ~3 hours per day enjoyable (spory suspension, powerful engine, etc).
> ...


+1 I lease a car. Let the scolding begin.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> And I just took it that it was another constraint for vehicle recommendations. Such as "You know, Nissan has 0% financing".


I don't have a problem with saying "I'm looking at something in X price range", but when you follow that sentence with "I have no job" and your price range is in the realm of luxury vehicle price it's going to illicit a response from most people that this may not be the most prudent decision.



jmbeck said:


> Additionally, she was adding it will become a high mileage vehicle once she gets a job.


You don't need a brand new $35k vehicle for it to be a serviceable high mileage vehicle. I believe quite the opposite. Since the miles kill the value of a vehicle, and new vehicles depreciate quickly anyway why would to want put a lot of miles on a brand new car?



jmbeck said:


> I'm just pointing out that this thread quickly became an "OMG, you're ignorant for considering a new car, especially with no job, buy a 5 year old Corolla!".


It did quickly become a discussion about how purchasing a new vehicle of that caliber while not being employed didn't seem to be the best idea. I don't think anyone told her to go buy a 5 year old Corolla, but if you have one to sell I might be in the market. 

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to react that way. What was your reaction to hearing about Octomom? An unemployed mother of six opts for fertility treatments resulting in 8 more children? I think the general consensus was WTF? Clearly, buying a car is no where near the same level as having 8 kids, but when you tell someone that you are undertaking a sizable financial obligation and you are not employed it will illicit a response.



jmbeck said:


> And maybe I'm wrong.


Finally, something we can agree on. 



jmbeck said:


> I just know that I wouldn't like the condescending attitude in a lot of these posts directed toward me.


Maybe the posts came across as condescending ( I know I have a tendency to come across that way). I don't think that was the intent though. Based on the information given I think people were a little bit taken aback but the situation. The conversation did eventually steer its way back to the topic of cars and not personal finances.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 31, 2009)

I have a personal preference for the Japanese cars. I own a 2003 Honda Accord EX and a 2006 Acura MDX Touring. They have been great cars. Before that I had a 1996 Isuzu Trooper that took almost no maintenance and had 183k miles on it that would still be humming along today if I hadn't been a dumbass and run a red light last year. Before that I had a 1988 Isuzu Trooper that my youngest brother is still driving with over 200k miles on it. Still the original engine and transmission. I think GM bought a large stake in Isuzu around 1998 and look what happened to them. I would have bought another Isuzu had GM not turned them into total pieces of shit. I'm a tad bitter about this if you can't tell.

On the other hand, my dad still drives a 1996 Chevy Tahoe. The engine blew out on that car at 90k miles, busted seals, thrown rods and he never drove it over 4000 RPM. My mom's last car was a 1996 Chrysler Town &amp; Country. I think my parents put three transmissions in that car and finally got rid of it at 160k miles. Needless to say my parents are no longer interested in American cars. My mom bought an Acura MDX for her next car and my dad is looking at Toyota Sequoias.


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## jmbeck (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> Maybe the posts came across as condescending ( I know I have a tendency to come across that way).


You're a Georgia Tech alum, we expected nothing less.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> You're a Georgia Tech alum, we expected nothing less.


Becoming a pretentious prick is part of the curriculum


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## MGX (Jul 31, 2009)

I did not intend to sound condescending in my post.

Isuzu has indeed co opted with GM for many of their vehicles. The trooper for example uses the 4.3 GM V6. Many of their vehicles are "badge engineered" GM vehicles.

On the topic of the Tahoe dropping the engine at 90K I would say that's not abnormal. It is not unusual for GM smallblocks to crap out at 100K. The costs of replacement are minimal so many people simply drop a new crate motor in when the time comes.

On the Chrylser, neither Chrylser nor Ford have perfected front wheel drive transmissions. I am unsure why, given that some Japanese (not all Japanese cars are good) makes have very good front wheel drive transmissions. I would guess one reason would be that American engines generally produce more torque versus Japanese engines.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> Becoming a pretentious prick is part of the curriculum


I bet they teach that class on the liberal arts side of campus.

Chrysler UltraDrive is world renowned as a pile o'poo. It's a shame the guys that designed the 727 and the A-833 could foist UltraDrive on the world.


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> Becoming a pretentious prick is part of the curriculum


Freshman seminar, right?


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

liberal arts? I'm unfamiliar with this term, could you please elaborate?


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## chaosiscash (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> Becoming a pretentious prick is part of the curriculum


:Locolaugh:


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## benbo (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> I but when you tell someone that you are undertaking a sizable financial obligation and you are not employed it will illicit a response.


Personal employment status is not the only indicator of financial capability. My high school friend started working at Microsoft pre-Windows, and is now retired. He can afford any car he wants.

You have to take into account what a person's spouse makes as well. I'm not saying this is the case for the person we're discussing here, but i don't think there are any hard and fast rules here. You can buy a used lemon, or make out great over time with a new car.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 31, 2009)

benbo said:


> You have to take into account what a person's spouse makes as well. I'm not saying this is the case for the person we're discussing here, but i don't think there are any hard and fast rules here. You can buy a used lemon, or make out great over time with a new car.



Yep, I think her husband is a doctor.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

benbo said:


> Personal employment status is not the only indicator of financial capability.My high school friend started working at Microsoft pre-Windows, and is now retired. He can afford any car he wants.
> You have to take into account what a person's spouse makes as well. I'm not saying this is the case for the person we're discussing here, but i don't think there are any hard and fast rules here. You can buy a used lemon, or make out great over time with a new car.


Agreed. It was assumed in this case however that as squishless was actively looking for employment that she was not independently wealthy.

You can also buy a new lemon (been there, done that) or a used car that makes out great over time.


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## MonteBiker (Jul 31, 2009)

benbo said:


> You have to take into account what a person's spouse makes as well. I'm not saying this is the case for the person we're discussing here, but i don't think there are any hard and fast rules here. You can buy a used lemon, or make out great over time with a new car.


"me being unemployed isnt that big of a deal- remember we live in texas and its not that expensive to live here. we live off of my husbands paycheck each month fine without me making anything, and that assumes i dont get unemployment, which i do."

Let's not forget that she is getting unemployment (which implies that in the end, that it really is our problem)...


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 31, 2009)

benbo said:


> ... You can buy a used lemon...


Sounds like a great Party!


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

^^

:lmao:


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## benbo (Jul 31, 2009)

MonteBiker said:


> Let's not forget that she is getting unemployment (which implies that in the end, that it really is our problem)...


To what extent is that your problem?

Since maybe 1/1,000,000,000 of your taxes goes to her unemployment (which she paid into when she worked, by the way) you have some sort of stake in telling her how to live?


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## Supe (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I bet they teach that class on the liberal arts side of campus.
> Chrysler UltraDrive is world renowned as a pile o'poo. It's a shame the guys that designed the 727 and the A-833 could foist UltraDrive on the world.



I think you're the first person in the world I've ever heard tout the capabilities of the TorqueFlite trans. Then again, I come from a racing background where they're almost as worthless as I am.


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## MonteBiker (Jul 31, 2009)

benbo said:


> To what extent is that your problem?Since maybe 1/1,000,000,000 of your taxes goes to her unemployment (which she paid into when she worked, by the way) you have some sort of stake in teling her how to live?


I'm not telling her how to do anything. They were wondering what her sources of funding are. That being said, while I am not telling her what decision to make, I am of the opinion that unemployment is really there to help keep you on your feet while you are looking for something. Keeping the bills paid and roof over your head. You do not have to take it. Should it be for just putting into a savings account or buying nice things that you always wanted? I was always taught that was the reason to always have a job or be working darned hard to find one... so you can have those things.

I agree that she worked and paid into unemployment and I am sure she hoped she would never have to take advantage of such an opportunity as to use it. I don't have any problem paying into it in hopes that if I ever NEED it, it is there. But you can rest assured that while I am taking it, I will not be buying 35k vehicles (although that is something I wouldn't do while employed). I have seen a few folks lately which make me think that the system is being taken advantage of. If you do not need it, then let it be there for someone who does. Maybe that is just the guilt that my parents raised me with. And I lean pretty liberally.


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## benbo (Jul 31, 2009)

MonteBiker said:


> But you can rest assured that while I am taking it, I will not be buying 35k vehicles (although that is something I wouldn't do while employed).


Good for you. And she can do what she wants. I still say it's none of your business. It's fine to give an opinion, your statement implies that it is somehow up to others to tell her how to spend money from a program she contributed to. To me that's pretty arrogant, if not fascistic.


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## MGX (Jul 31, 2009)

Supe said:


> I think you're the first person in the world I've ever heard tout the capabilities of the TorqueFlite trans. Then again, I come from a racing background where they're almost as worthless as I am.


Lots of people use the 727...usually if you can't find a decent powerglide.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 31, 2009)

too funny, the cash for clunkers has most likely already reached its alotted $...through the weekend at the very most is all it wil be alround, unless lawmakers approve more $.


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## squishles10 (Jul 31, 2009)

oh good lord!

1. i believe i mentioned this before but ill say it again. me and my husband live comfortably off of HIS income. with our current car payments, mortgage, etc.

2. we also have enough in the bank to pay off both our cars, and a new $35k car if we choose, PLUS half our mortgage if we choose. we choose not to.

3. its actually none of anyones business and as mentioned before, i didnt ask your opinion on how much of a car i could afford. someone asked what price range and i replied. i did not offer that information up in the front, but brought into the conversation the rough class that we were looking at.

4. considering how much money we have in the bank and how much we save each month considering i have no job, i really dont see how anyone else presumes to tell me to spend or save my money, as i think we're doing a pretty good job on our own. if youre doing better congratulations. if youre doing worse, then youre probably spending too much. we're obviously not, thanks for your opinion anyway.

im not coming back to this thread, and im very sorry i started it.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

squishles10 said:


> im not coming back to this thread, and im very sorry i started it.


you should know by now we can't stay on topic.


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 31, 2009)

boobs :Banane20:


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## Chucktown PE (Jul 31, 2009)

squish, for the record I wasn't giving you advice. But when the topic of finances came up I just wanted to offer to everyone (not to you specifically) the rules I use on the car thing.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

Supe said:


> I think you're the first person in the world I've ever heard tout the capabilities of the TorqueFlite trans.


I have a couple of decades on ya. The 727 was quite a tranny back in the day.



snickerd3 said:


> too funny, the cash for clunkers has most likely already reached its alotted $...through the weekend at the very most is all it wil be alround, unless lawmakers approve more $.


You know, I have to eat crow on the clunkers program. I thought it was bs and not many people would participate. Looks like there are a lot of people who drive their cars to the wheels fall off who are trading their old jalopies in for new cars that get better mileage. So, I’d have to say it was a success.



roadwreck said:


> you should know by now we can't stay on topic.


Yeah, I know....


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## TouchDown (Jul 31, 2009)

She'd better watch her damn heels, don't scratch the paint.


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## MA_PE (Jul 31, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> boobs :Banane20:






Capt Worley PE said:


>


nice try men. too little too late.


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

squish, for the record I was being a pretentious ass hat, as is my nature.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> squish, for the record I was being a pretentious ass hat, as is my nature.


Can't really blame him, though. He did take a class...


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## roadwreck (Jul 31, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Can't really blame him, though. He did take a class...


a course that I did very very well in by the way.


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## FLBuff PE (Jul 31, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> squish, for the record I was being a pretentious ass hat, as is my nature.


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## csb (Aug 1, 2009)

whoa! I wandered in here wondering what on earth you guys were talking about...and then I saw that awesome asshat picture.


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## wilheldp_PE (Aug 3, 2009)

In an effort to get this thread back on track...I really like the new Mini Cooper S, and will probably start looking for one when I get my current car paid off. Does anybody here own one, or have you driven/ridden in one? Are they as much fun as people seem to think, or are they over-hyped? Can I fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk? Are they worth the $18k that they cost (new or used...the demand is so high, they are hardly depreciating at this point).


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## Chucktown PE (Aug 3, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> In an effort to get this thread back on track...I really like the new Mini Cooper S, and will probably start looking for one when I get my current car paid off. Does anybody here own one, or have you driven/ridden in one? Are they as much fun as people seem to think, or are they over-hyped? Can I fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk? Are they worth the $18k that they cost (new or used...the demand is so high, they are hardly depreciating at this point).



What, you have debt and you're already looking at another car. How dare you.

I actually really like the Mini Cooper and would seriously consider one if I didn't have two kids that need to ride in my car every now and again.


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## Capt Worley PE (Aug 3, 2009)

My aunt has a Mini Cooper and loves it. Its the normally aspirated version.


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## EM_PS (Aug 3, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> In an effort to get this thread back on track...I really like the new Mini Cooper S, and will probably start looking for one when I get my current car paid off. Does anybody here own one, or have you driven/ridden in one? Are they as much fun as people seem to think, or are they over-hyped? *Can I fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk?* Are they worth the $18k that they cost (new or used...the demand is so high, they are hardly depreciating at this point).


Might wanna make sure you can fit _you_ all up in dat Cooper before worrying about clubs -


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## NCcarguy (Aug 3, 2009)

Squish....Come back!!!! I think you seriously need to go to your local FORD dealership!!!! I am a BIG Ford man (Even though I do own the Chevelle!) but to me, supporting a company that I believe makes some of the best vehicles on the planet, AND isn't taking your tax dollars to keep afloat is a great thing to do.

The Wife has an Escape, it's a great vehicle for many things, but MAY be smaller than what you're looking for, I kinda wish we had an explorer with the same options. They also have the EDGE, and the FLEX that I think you would like....and of course you can still get the Expedition! It's a big vehicle, but if you need something that big, it'll certainly serve you well.

I have the 2003 Escape, 80k miles....no problems

a 2005 F-150, 30k miles.....no problems

a 2006 Mustang GT, 20k miles.....no problems

and a 2007 Mustang GT, 80k miles.......only had to replace ONE of the four tire pressure sensors!

I'll take that if that's the only problem I have with ANY of them!


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## wilheldp_PE (Aug 3, 2009)

error_matrix said:


> Might wanna make sure you can fit _you_ all up in dat Cooper before worrying about clubs -


Yeah, a test drive will be key. I'm not so sure my 6'2" frame will fit in it, but all reports I have seen say that the Cooper is surprisingly roomy.


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## Chucktown PE (Aug 3, 2009)

NCcarguy, in case you didn't know

Ford = American &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; Cooper = European


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## Katiebug (Aug 3, 2009)

jmbeck said:


> Sorry, I admit I was being a goober with that last comment. I allowed an earlier conversation with a co-worker about his new Tundra. Being a generally nice guy (above instance excluded), I asked him if he liked his new truck and other general questions. He then proceeds to tell me how Toyota makes a superior vehicle to every other car on the road, and that the Tundra is the best full-sized truck ever and that GM, Ford, and Dodge were incredible pieces of crap and he doesn't understand why people still buy those because they can't compete.


My brother went from a Ford Focus to a Toyota Tacoma, and he loves that truck. But prior to buying the Taco (currently sitting in storage for 15 months while he's deployed; my dad drives it a few days a month to keep it in good running order) he was seriously considering an F-150.

The way my dad puts it is that a Toyota or Honda is a "10 year car". You know you can buy a Toyota Camry and drive it for a decade, putting 150-200K miles on the sucker, and it'll still keep going. A Chevy or Ford _may_ only be a "5 year car", although in many cases it will be a fine "10 year car" as well. My SIL has a '98 Tahoe that's very high mileage and it still runs great.

I am very clearly the sort of person who starts to _want_ a new vehicle at around the 5 year mark. I held off on unloading the Beetle sooner due to Mr. Bug's prolonged stretch of unemployment, but I have wanted a new car for at least a year now. In 5 years, we'll hopefully have a few kids and perhaps a compact crossover will no longer be an appropriate family car - or maybe it will. Mr. Bug also needs a new vehicle here at some point, and having 2 car payments for a while IS a consideration for us and our finances. That's just reality for us, especially with me being the bigger breadwinner. So I can't get the Honda Pilot or Chevy Traverse that I'd really like to get, because financing $35K now when we'll be financing a $20-25K vehicle for him in 2-3 years is just not wise for us.

Anyways, I've come to the conclusion that I'm looking for a "5 year car" this time. And we were dead-set against a Big Three vehicle until my dad pointed out to us that since I only want a 5 year car, the fact that a Honda would still be running 12 years from now is not really as big a deal as getting a good deal on a vehicle that meets my needs the best now.

Also, I'm smitten with the 2010 Equinox. It knocks the socks off the CR-V or the Forester. More spacious, comparable mileage for the AWD, and it has nice features in even the base model.



Dexman1349 said:


> Lol. My "German Engineered" Jetta was made in Mexico... At one point last year I was talking with some VW enthusiasts and they said something to the effect that there are only about 2-3 VW models available that are actually made in Germany. The rest are in Canada / Mexico.


My New Beetle is a product of Mexico (as are all NBs). I believe for the North American market only the Passat, some Rabbits, and some Tiguans are made in Germany. The Routan is a rebadged Chrysler Town &amp; Country, made in Canada. There are VW factories in Mexico, Russia, China, etc. At least most Audis are still made in Germany.



wilheldp_PE said:


> In an effort to get this thread back on track...I really like the new Mini Cooper S, and will probably start looking for one when I get my current car paid off. Does anybody here own one, or have you driven/ridden in one? Are they as much fun as people seem to think, or are they over-hyped? Can I fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk? Are they worth the $18k that they cost (new or used...the demand is so high, they are hardly depreciating at this point).


They're pleasant enough for a subcompact. Good luck with the golf clubs, though! Make sure you test drive if you're taller than about 5'10".


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## csb (Aug 3, 2009)

NCcarguy said:


> Squish....Come back!!!! I think you seriously need to go to your local FORD dealership!!!! I am a BIG Ford man (Even though I do own the Chevelle!) but to me, supporting a company that I believe makes some of the best vehicles on the planet, AND isn't taking your tax dollars to keep afloat is a great thing to do.
> The Wife has an Escape, it's a great vehicle for many things, but MAY be smaller than what you're looking for, I kinda wish we had an explorer with the same options. They also have the EDGE, and the FLEX that I think you would like....and of course you can still get the Expedition! It's a big vehicle, but if you need something that big, it'll certainly serve you well.
> 
> I have the 2003 Escape, 80k miles....no problems
> ...


I was too afraid to mention this, but I'm a Ford driver too. Had an F-150 I loved until I had to trade it in for a more family friendly car. Ended up with the 2006 AWD Escape and it is a wonderful car. It's the hybrid and I've only brought it in for warranty work. It's amazing in the snow and ice and it easily can fit four adults and a kid in a Britax child seat (monster seat) and it's comfortable. We had been looking at buying a used Subaru Outback and we ended up with a better deal on the new Escape and there's way more room. There's very little I can't fit in if I lay down the seats and for furniture/larger things we have a Tacoma.

My name is csb and I drive an American car. There, I said it.


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## FLBuff PE (Aug 3, 2009)

csb said:


> I was too afraid to mention this, but I'm a Ford driver too. Had an F-150 I loved until I had to trade it in for a more family friendly car. Ended up with the 2006 AWD Escape and it is a wonderful car. It's the hybrid and I've only brought it in for warranty work. It's amazing in the snow and ice and it easily can fit four adults and a kid in a Britax child seat (monster seat) and it's comfortable. We had been looking at buying a used Subaru Outback and we ended up with a better deal on the new Escape and there's way more room. There's very little I can't fit in if I lay down the seats and for furniture/larger things we have a Tacoma.
> My name is csb and I drive an American car. There, I said it.


My name is FLBuff, and I drive an American car, also. :unitedstates: The work truck is a Fored Ranger. My car is a 2001 Chevy Blazer that I bought new. Part of it was paid for as a graduation present from my folks. I will drive it till it drives no more.


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## Dexman1349 (Aug 3, 2009)

My name is Dex, I have owned both imported and American cars: Nissans ('98 Pathfinder, '01 Xterra, &amp; '89 Sentra), '06 VW Jetta, '08 Jeep Commander, '04 Chrylser 300M, '97 Pontiac Grand Am, Saturns ('93 &amp; '94 Sedans, '01 Coupe) and a '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse. My current 3 are the 98 Pathfinder, 06 Jetta * 08 Commander.

The only car in my life that was a piece of shit was my 2004 Chrysler 300M (last year of the 300 before they switched to the new "box" bodystyle) It had the worst electrical gremlins you would ever find. Headlights randomly shut off at night, interior lights would turn on and off at random, some days it wouldn't "recognize" the key and it would refuse to start, it would kill a battery in under 6 weeks (and the alternator was checked each time and was ok). From a mechanical standpoint the engine was great, that is once the transmission would choose to engage. It had an "auto-stick" tranny that would operate like a normal automatic, but would allow you to "manually" shift with a tap left/right of the shift lever. You could easily count to 5 between when the lever was moved and the new gear would engage. Of course everytime we would take it into have it looked at, the problems wouldn't happen so needless to say we could never convince the dealership that it was a warranty issue and we shouldn't have to pay for.

We bought it used when it was only a year old and had about 20k miles on it. At the time they had the 8yr/80k warranty available for their "certified" used cars (which this was). We were so frustrated with that thing that we literally put the keys in the glovebox and called the lender and told them we weren't going to make another payment and they could come take it back. They thought we were kidding until after the 2nd payment wasn't received (despite the fact they would call us on a weekly basis checking on the status of our payment and we would repeat that we wouldn't make another payment). We had just enough equity in the car so that it once it was auctioned off it covered the adminstrative fees.

With the exception of the 300M, all the other cars have either been traded (Xterra, 01 Saturn) in or simply run into the ground. We have always had a mix of new and used cars in our stable. I don't think I have ever had more than 2 payments (usually only 1) but have maintained at least 3 cars.


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## Capt Worley PE (Aug 4, 2009)

LHs were nice looking and nice driving cars, but they were very trouble prone.


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## frazil (Aug 4, 2009)

csb said:


> I was too afraid to mention this, but I'm a Ford driver too. Had an F-150 I loved until I had to trade it in for a more family friendly car. Ended up with the 2006 AWD Escape and it is a wonderful car. It's the hybrid and I've only brought it in for warranty work. It's amazing in the snow and ice and it easily can fit four adults and a kid in a Britax child seat (monster seat) and it's comfortable. We had been looking at buying a used Subaru Outback and we ended up with a better deal on the new Escape and there's way more room. There's very little I can't fit in if I lay down the seats and for furniture/larger things we have a Tacoma.
> My name is csb and I drive an American car. There, I said it.


My name is frazil and much to my surprise I drive an American car too. The japanese-imported Mazda 6 that I thought I was buying was actually made in Detroit. Apparently Ford bought Mazda a while back.


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## MGX (Aug 4, 2009)

I think most American small cars are, for lack of a better word, junk. We do full-sized cars and trucks right however.

My full-sized Fords, Lincolns and Chevrolets have been excellent cars.

EDIT: full sized is NOT the same size as a Taurus or Malibu. Full size usually means the car has a chassis and not a unibody.


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## roadwreck (Aug 4, 2009)

frazil said:


> My name is frazil and much to my surprise I drive an American car too. The japanese-imported Mazda 6 that I thought I was buying was actually made in Detroit. Apparently Ford bought Mazda a while back.


Ford only owned some of Mazda. They owned up to 33% of Mazda, but in an effort to raise cash have since sold some of that off.

http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Ford+sel....html?id=969287

It still doesn't change the fact that the Mazda 6 is assembled in Michigan. That's not uncommon for forigen automobile manufactures though. Toyota have an assembly plant in Tennessee I think. Hyundai has one in Alabama. Kia is building one in Georgia. The list goes on and on.


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## Chucktown PE (Aug 4, 2009)

Honda builds the Odyssey in Alabama, BMW builds the Z3 and X5 in Spartanburg, Daimler builds the Sprinter in Charleston, etc.


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## OSUguy98 (Aug 4, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> Ford only owned some of Mazda. They owned up to 33% of Mazda, but in an effort to raise cash have since sold some of that off. http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Ford+sel....html?id=969287
> 
> It still doesn't change the fact that the Mazda 6 is assembled in Michigan. That's not uncommon for forigen automobile manufactures though. Toyota have an assembly plant in Tennessee I think. Hyundai has one in Alabama. Kia is building one in Georgia. The list goes on and on.


Yup, my Nissan Altima was assembled in Tennessee, I'm pretty sure..... and Toyota has a large motor assembly plant in southern :wv: , I can't remember which motors they make...


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## Dexman1349 (Aug 4, 2009)

^^^ Because Toyota has so many assembly plants in the US, they were allowed to participate in NASCAR. (I believe all of the Toyota trucks are assembled in the US) One unconfirmed report during thier application into NASCAR stated that more Toyotas were built in the US than any one single US manufacturer, and thus were more influential on the american economy, and could then be somewhat considered a US brand...


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## Capt Worley PE (Aug 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> Honda builds the Odyssey in Alabama, BMW builds the Z3 and X5 in Spartanburg, Daimler builds the Sprinter in Charleston, etc.


They stopped making the Z3 years ago. I believe you're thinking X3. They make the X6 there as well. Nothing but SUVs coming out of the plant now.

I took a tour when they were making Z3s there. Incredibly cool. I highly recommend a plant tour, if you have a chance.


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## rudy (Mar 19, 2010)

Squishles, did you find a car?

If it's not too late, I'd recommend a Toyota Sequoia. I know, I know... Toyota is having some issues with the accelerator. But once the the fix is implemented, it's a good vehicle. Yes, it's a gas guzzler, but you can't beat the comfort on long trips, and the safety (it's big and tall, and has side impact air bags).


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## Dexman PE (Mar 19, 2010)

One car I've been really interested in is the Honda Accord Crosstour. That car is absolutely huge without being combersome like the big SUV's. It's actually a "cool" station-wagon (if there is such a thing).


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## Slugger926 (Mar 20, 2010)

Dexman PE said:


> One car I've been really interested in is the Honda Accord Crosstour. That car is absolutely huge without being combersome like the big SUV's. It's actually a "cool" station-wagon (if there is such a thing).


My wife is now interested in the Honda minivan. She wants the sliding doors on the side for ease of use in crowded parking lots, or dropping kids off at school.


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## Road Guy (Mar 21, 2010)

This august my Durango will be 5 years old, it's been paid off for a while i hate the car basically cause it's not a jeep yj but....

However I think my next car is going to have to be something in the excursion size the three kids are really outgrowing the Durango....

But due to a short commute this is the first car I have had 5 years that will have less than 100k miles.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm still enjoying my Maxx, but my next car (probably in at least four years if not longer) will be a Fiesta with the ecoboost motor.


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## Chucktown PE (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm thinking about selling my 2003 Honda Accord and buying an insurance salvage Ford F-150, or some other full size pickup. I'm going to be building a house and I need something to haul materials.


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## MGX (Mar 22, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I'm still enjoying my Maxx, but my next car (probably in at least four years if not longer) will be a Fiesta with the ecoboost motor.


Is the Fiesta slated to be reintroduced to the US? I had forgotten all about it until I was in Brownsville a few years ago and there were scores all over town.


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## Supe (Mar 22, 2010)

Yep. Unfortunately, they had a great looking front end on the concept car with a huge wide-mouth billet grill. Now, it looks like another jelly bean econo-ride.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 22, 2010)

Looks badazz to me supe...


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## MGX (Mar 22, 2010)

Very cool.

Much improved over the tiny three cylinder box we had in the early '90s!


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## Supe (Mar 22, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Looks badazz to me supe...



Can't see the photos here at work, but if you compare the "Euro spec" version to the US version, you can see the difference.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 22, 2010)

MGX said:


> Very cool.
> Much improved over the tiny three cylinder box we had in the early '90s!


That was the Festiva, a Mazda 121 made in Korea.

The turbo 4 from the Capri XR2 bolts right in. They call them Fastivas.

Supe, I know what you're talking of, but it doesn't make that much of a difference, IMO.


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## jeb6294 (Mar 22, 2010)

rudy said:


> If it's not too late, I'd recommend a Toyota Sequoia. I know, I know... Toyota is having some issues with the accelerator. But once the the fix is implemented, it's a good vehicle. Yes, it's a gas guzzler, but you can't beat the comfort on long trips, and the safety (it's big and tall, and has side impact air bags).


We went to the car show in Cincinnati a few weeks ago so the wife could look at minivans. While we were in the Toyota section looking at the Sienna, I hear my wife say "ohh, what's that one?" I look up to see her checking out a Toyota Sequoia Platinum. A bit of sticker shock, but it was super nice and the inside was every bit as big as the minivan. I know Toyota was doing some big deals on their trucks...maybe that'll carry over to the new Sequoia's.

For my own personal transport when my car bites the dust, I think the Mazda 3's are pretty nice and you can get a Mazdaspeed3 for a decent price...a turbo charged 265hp hatchback sounds like a fun little ride.


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## Chucktown PE (Mar 22, 2010)

your avatar is pretty creepy.


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## Dexman PE (Mar 22, 2010)

jeb6294 said:


> For my own personal transport when my car bites the dust, I think the Mazda 3's are pretty nice and you can get a Mazdaspeed3 for a decent price...a turbo charged 265hp hatchback sounds like a fun little ride.


The Mazdaspeed 3, the Subaru WRX, the Mitsu Lancer EVO, and the VW GTI are all pretty much interchangable in that regard. They are all a ton of fun out in the open road, but still manage very good milage for use as a commuter. I drive a 2.5l Jetta and it's a blast, plus it has just enough room in the back seat for the 2 kiddos.

Once the kiddos get a little bigger and don't need full-blown carseats, I'm seriously considering something like a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger. Nothing smaller than a V8 of course...


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## jeb6294 (Mar 25, 2010)

Dexman PE said:


> jeb6294 said:
> 
> 
> > For my own personal transport when my car bites the dust, I think the Mazda 3's are pretty nice and you can get a Mazdaspeed3 for a decent price...a turbo charged 265hp hatchback sounds like a fun little ride.
> ...


I sat in the WRX at the car show but it didn't have nearly as much room as the Mazda, the tilt steering didn't tilt up far enough.

I'm extremely disappointed that Pontiac is history...more specifically the G8. A big V8 in a four door that was decent to look at and pretty affordable. Hopefully GM will bring it back under the Chevy name. My in-laws have an Impala SS (one of the new ones) that is fun, but it's the smaller V8 and it's front wheel drive :f_115m_e45d7af:


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## Dexman PE (Mar 25, 2010)

jeb6294 said:


> I'm extremely disappointed that Pontiac is history...more specifically the G8. A big V8 in a four door that was decent to look at and pretty affordable. Hopefully GM will bring it back under the Chevy name. My in-laws have an Impala SS (one of the new ones) that is fun, but it's the smaller V8 and it's front wheel drive :f_115m_e45d7af:


I too am a huge fan of the G8. That was such a nice all-around car for people who needed space and wanted power. The only 2 complaints I ever had about it was that it was rear wheel drive (which sucks in the snow) and that a manual transmission was only available in the tricked out GTP version (over $40k).

I also hope GM brings this car back under the Chevy name like as another "retro" namesake. It could be the new Belaire...


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## jeb6294 (Mar 26, 2010)

Or perhaps I'll wait until I've saved up some of my "fatty" deployment money and get one of the new Cadillac CTS-V's....553hp and a sub 4 second 0-60 in a Caddy. Saw one of those at the car show too and they are pretty sharp.


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