# Where to "park" your rainy fund?



## iwire (Mar 17, 2013)

Let's say you have about $10k, $30k, or even $100k fund you saved up for rainy fund just in case...instead of putting it at high yield interest saving account which is about 0.85%, where is the best save place to invest your rainy fund instead of sitting around doing nothing? Should I?

1) Invest 50% into mutual funds and rest to saving?

2) Invest in CDs and saving?

3) high dividend stocks and saving?

Any idea would help me..

thanks


----------



## ptatohed (Mar 17, 2013)

You can learn a lot here:

http://www.bankrate.com/

Good luck.


----------



## mudpuppy (Mar 17, 2013)

Depends on what you consider a "rainy day." I don't know anyone that needs $100k for a rainy day.

The way I look at a rainy day fund is, what do I do if I suddenly lose my job? Others may need to look at their income stream in general, wherever it comes from (spouse, child support, etc.)

Most advice I hear is to keep about 6 months of living expenses in your emergency fund. This is just expenses, since in a true emergency you wouldn't be putting money into your 401k, etc. This is a rule of thumb--if you think you might have a harder time finding a job then save more.

This emergency fund money should be easily accessible. You don't want it tied up in long-term CDs if you need to access it in an emergency. It really isn't a good idea to put emergency money into the stock market (either directly or through a mutual fund).... look at 2009. You could lose half your money in a week, and what if the fallout from that crash causes you to lose your job too? So it's best to keep this money in short term, low-risk assets like cash, money markets or short term CDs. I know this blows because the fed has driven interest rates so low, it's punishing savers. But the alternative is to risk the possibility of needing government assistance if you lose your job.

Once you've put aside enough for your emergency fund, then you can take on some more risk. I still wouldn't put money I need within 4-5 years into the stock market (it's taken 4 years for the Dow to recover from March 2009). But if it's money not earmarked for something specific (buying a car or a house or kids tuition) then I like high-yield dividend paying stocks (except banks). Since we're talking taxable accounts here, dividends still (for now) get favorable tax treatment over capital gains. Just make sure you're selecting stable companies, or look for a high-yield divided mutual fund.

I'll also note that I'll never have $100k laying around (unless I get a huge promotion) because I max out my retirement savings accounts first, both a 401k and Roth IRA.


----------



## iwire (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks guys. I guess I didn't plan into my retirement from the get-go. Somehow, i still have doubt in the 401k system. I have seen people lost their retirement funds from 401k before.

I'm not saying I have 100k laying around but at this current rate, I will reach there within 5 years...or less, My monthly expenses is pretty low. I was taught to save when i was a kid, never depending on any retirement thing since it's not a common thing where I was from.

Maxing out 401k or Roth will probably get me $10k a year total contribution, so that would take a long time to put the money away. As of now, I have it in so-called high yield saving and some high dividend stocks. Kid college fund is set aide in 529 plan already.


----------



## Power12 (Mar 17, 2013)

The max for pre-tax 401K per year is $17,500. If you have un-needed income, this should be the first place that you should max out, otherwise you lose out on the tax benefits to pre-tax 401K's. If you are 50 and older your max is $17,500 + $5,500 = $23,000 per year. Also if you have a company match for 401K make sure to maximize, otherwise you are throwing money away.

It is good to have an emergency fund, if you do not have one and have equity in your house it is good to get approved for a home equity line of credit that you can draw from incase of an emergency. The thing to remember is to get the line of credit in place prior to needing it. Only use it in "true" emergencies.

Now what to do with $100,000 that is laying around. If you have taken care of your emergency fund, and you are a long ways from retirement put it into the stock market such as mutual funds that track the S&amp;P500. Keeping the money in the bank will make it lose value due to inflation and the lost opportunity from growth in investing it. If you invest $100,000 and get a return of 10% per year, your investment will grow at approx $833 per month (Two car payments). If you get a return of 5% per year your investment will grow at approx $417 per month. (One car payment). There is also compounding that happens to your money which will make the money grow in value and can lead to early retirement.(A good thing)


----------



## solomonb (Mar 17, 2013)

Power12-- Where are you getting 10% today and still have liquidity? Your arithmetic is correct if you can get 10%-- I sure in the hell don't know where it is at-- and I have been looking.

I would keep it in cash-- maybe the .82% at the bank-- I know, not the wisest way, however, I want to be able to touch the $100K if I need to. Yes, the car is paid for, the house is currently a rental, however, we will probably build/buy a smaller house in the future. I have all of the toys that I need/want-- sure, could by some things, however, bought a new mandolin the other day and have had fun with it. I know, a boring engineer's life.


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Mar 17, 2013)

I had my money in a "high-yield" savings account. It started at 6% about 6 years ago, and as the Fed continued to cut the prime rate, my yield continued to drop. It is currently at 0.2%.

I took about half of it 6 months ago, and put it in a managed account that is set up to be pretty conservative (some stocks, but mostly bonds and mutual funds). I recently stumbled across a local federal credit union that has a high-yield checking account that pays 2% as long as you have a direct deposit and 12 debit card purchases per month. I'm going to close the savings account and put the rest in that account.

It's hard to make any return on a FDIC insured account any more because the Federal Reserve can't keep their grubby hands off the prime interest rate, which is what dictates returns on almost all insured accounts.


----------



## cdcengineer (Mar 18, 2013)

I would consider buying physical gold.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 18, 2013)

Bottled water

Canned food

Shotgun shells


----------



## Lumber Jim (Mar 18, 2013)

Invest in land... They aren't making more of it!!


----------



## Wolverine (Mar 18, 2013)

You should invest in Cyprus:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323415304578366082331307780.html

_Cyprus is finally getting a bailout, and what an instant classic of euro-crisis dysfunction it is. Nine months after Nicosia first requested a rescue, the deal that emerged Saturday is slapdash, short-sighted and manhandled by politics._

_The novelty of Saturday's deal is that, for the first time in the euro crisis, depositors will contribute to the cost of recapitalizing banks. As we went to press, the plan was for Nicosia to extract €5.8 billion via a one-off 9.9% "stability levy" on deposits larger than €100,000 and a 6.75% levy on deposits smaller than that._

Oh, wait, maybe not.


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 18, 2013)

Lumber Jim said:


> Invest in land... They aren't making more of it!!


Jim, while I completely agree with this as a long term goal, I wouldn't put my emergency fund money here. Even in a good economy, it takes time to sell and close on property, so unless you severely short sell, don't expect to get rid of property quickly.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 18, 2013)

It all depends on how "liquid" you want your rainy day funds. If you need it RIGHT NOW, even the high-yield savings accounts require 2-5 days to get you the money.

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would probably keep $5-$10k in a standard savings account tied to my checking (or even just leave it in checking as a true "Oh shit" fund), then about $20k into a high yield (or equavalent account that would be liquid within a couple weeks), and put the rest into real estate. Go out and buy 4-6 houses out in the mid-west that I could rent out. Then as those houses are getting paid off, I would sell the lowest value one and buy a new one worth more than my highest property. After 8-10 years I would ideally be sitting on 4-6 houses worth $250k each and be sitting on well over $1M of property while also receiving ~$5-$8k per month in rent payments...


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Mar 18, 2013)

Dexman PE said:


> put the rest into real estate. Go out and buy 4-6 houses out in the mid-west that I could rent out. Then as those houses are getting paid off, I would sell the lowest value one and buy a new one worth more than my highest property. After 8-10 years I would ideally be sitting on 4-6 houses worth $250k each and be sitting on well over $1M of property while also receiving ~$5-$8k per month in rent payments...




That sounds plain awful. Have you ever dealt with tenants on a rental property before? Your $5-8k per month in rent payments will produce about $10k per month in time spent fixing their problems, buying/replacing appliances, and aggravation.


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 18, 2013)

Dex, I'm almost to the point your talking about, we've been working on starting some small rental houses. We were looking at houses in the $40-50k range that would rent for around $5-600ish. I don't think I'd go into the higher end properties to rent. The higher end properties have people looking to move up to their own house, so they turn over more, the cost to rental income ratio goes down and if you lose a tenant, you lose a huge amount of rental income that you will need to take out of your own pocket. I'm not saying be a slum lord, but three or four smaller properties will make you more money than one big property. There are some nice foreclosure properties (not auction) that are worth twice what you pay and make good income.


----------



## cdcengineer (Mar 18, 2013)

^ The rentals might be used as meth houses or grow houses. Than you might have a real problem.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 18, 2013)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Dexman PE said:
> 
> 
> > put the rest into real estate. Go out and buy 4-6 houses out in the mid-west that I could rent out. Then as those houses are getting paid off, I would sell the lowest value one and buy a new one worth more than my highest property. After 8-10 years I would ideally be sitting on 4-6 houses worth $250k each and be sitting on well over $1M of property while also receiving ~$5-$8k per month in rent payments...
> ...




And if the tenants are section 8....


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 18, 2013)

^ They don't hold the landlord responsible for that and you would definitely have to have insurance on your properties


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 18, 2013)

All the more reason to be a good landlord and/or hire a good property manager. Purchase properties that will attract good tennants, spend the extra time screening tennants, and write good contracts to protect your investment. Will that eliminate the risk of someone going apeshit and destroying your property, no. But it will minimize that risk.

Would you rather I put it in the stock market where I could lose 50% because some speculator forgot his coffee and is having a bad day?


----------



## snickerd3 (Mar 18, 2013)

The horror stories I hear from my ILs about their renters...even the property screened variety....is enough for me never to enter that sort of situation.

I think they have had only 2 renters that actually completed their leases before decided to move elsewhere. The rest either left in the middle of the night or had to be evicted for not paying rent (like 4-5 months worth). The rental that is right next door to their current house bailed while they were on vacation last summer.

One set of renters caught the house on fire by putting the laundry basket right up against the hot water heater...when it ignited to heat the water the clothes ignited as well.

New carpet has been needed pretty much btwn every leasee. Once the people used one of the rooms for all the garbage instead of subscribing to garbage service.

the stories go on and on


----------



## Ble_PE (Mar 18, 2013)

Yea, I could never see myself being a landlord at all. Way too much effort goes into it and I would get tired of it. Plus, there's the horror stories like Snick's in-law's experiences.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 18, 2013)

snickerd3 said:


> The horror stories I hear from my ILs about their renters...even the property screened variety....is enough for me never to enter that sort of situation.




Yeah, that and watching the renters in general.

Absolutely no way would I do this.


----------



## mudpuppy (Mar 18, 2013)

My dad and brother have both been landlords. Based on their experiences, no way would I go down that road. My dad has had to evict people for nonpayment, and my brother has had to completely gut and re-do his rental twice. A responsible tenant is almost impossible to find.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 18, 2013)

^^Responsible adults purchase a house.

That leaves...


----------



## mudpuppy (Mar 18, 2013)

Capt Worley PE said:


> ^^Responsible adults purchase a house.
> 
> That leaves...






While I agree with you, I think it also somewhat depends on the area. Areas with high home prices might be a different story. But around here houses are cheap, so . . .


----------



## pbrme (Mar 18, 2013)

Based on similiar horror stories previously stated, I will always oppose owning rental property unless it's in storage units.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 18, 2013)

I really have no desire to be a landlord either.



Capt Worley PE said:


> Responsible adults purchase a house.


Which is why you include this as part of your rental agreement. Rent to own or lease to own contracts provide higher incomes to the landlord/owner, while transferring all of the maintenance to the tennant/buyer. The renter/buyer gives you a much larger deposit and a higher rent payment as a token of their seriousness to buy (and to provide additional incentive to take care of the place), and then it's up to the buyer to maintain the property.

Then, if the tennant/buyer doesn't want to buy or bails on the property, the owner/landlord is sitting on a lot more equity and typically has received enough $ that any damages are covered.


----------



## snickerd3 (Mar 18, 2013)

I always secretly hope mr snick parents get rid of the rentals ASAP...if something were to happen to mr snicks dad then it will become a huge mess to deal with....but the one that caught fire a couple years ago it straight profit every month to supplement their retirement. the other house is their old house which right next door to their current house and they haven't separated the land yet...that is the task for this year. Trying to find the best way to split it given the placement of the wells and septic fields.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 18, 2013)

The other thing to keep in mind is to hedge the risk of rental ownership through S-corps and LLC's. Last thing you need is to have a problem with a tennant and then have his lawyer learn you have several hundred thousand dollars worth of property for the taking...


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 18, 2013)

I guess I'm a little spoiled, the wifes bro is general manager for the local car lot and a real estate agent, who knows just about everyone in a small town of like 3-4k folks and we live about 15 mins from there. He has info on most of the houses that are for sale and knows some of the history behind them, so I have a good source if there is mold, ect on the properties. This is also good since he is 30ish, knows most of the 20-40 range folks personally and most of their parents too, so knowing who you are possibily renting to is a little better than just winging it. i don't think I'd own a rental outside of this area, mostly good families outside of the meth heads...


----------



## EAZY (Mar 18, 2013)

I tried slumlording and it sucks.


----------



## ptatohed (Mar 19, 2013)

I have a rental SFR and one MFR (condo). I've never had a problem with tenants, luckily. I've pretty much always had the properties rented, always had good tenants and the properties are always left in good shape. It's the depreciation during the recession that makes me want to jump off a bridge. The house dropped in value about 50% from its peak (worth about 33% less than what I paid) and the condo dropped about 70% from its peak (worth about 55% less than I paid).


----------



## roadwreck (Mar 19, 2013)

Lumber Jim said:


> Invest in land... They aren't making more of it!!




Sure they are


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 19, 2013)

The Dutch have been making new land for centuries.

I think they made new land for an airport in Japan.


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Mar 19, 2013)

Hong Kong built an island for their new airport. Dubai built the palm tree shaped islands and started on a group of islands shaped like the continents (last I checked, they ran out of money before completing those). There are lots of coastal cities that have expanded their land into the nearby water.


----------



## roadwreck (Mar 19, 2013)

Typical engineers, we turn a financial discussion into a talk about moving dirt.


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 19, 2013)

roadwreck said:


> Typical engineers, we turn a financial discussion into a talk about moving dirt.


As an EE, I find this revelation to be shocking!


----------



## envirotex (Mar 19, 2013)

I have never been sorry about any of the real estate investments that we have made, but like others have said not the best for emergencies. Cash is king, and immediate cash usually gives you the power to negotiate...


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 19, 2013)

^ Not that I look to take advantage of the misfortunes of others, but having a little cash to take advantage of certain situations is always a nice option...


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 19, 2013)

Judowolf PE said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > Typical engineers, we turn a financial discussion into a talk about moving dirt.
> ...


As an ME, it gives me stress.


----------



## Power12 (Mar 19, 2013)

solomonb said:


> Power12-- Where are you getting 10% today and still have liquidity? Your arithmetic is correct if you can get 10%-- I sure in the hell don't know where it is at-- and I have been looking.
> 
> I would keep it in cash-- maybe the .82% at the bank-- I know, not the wisest way, however, I want to be able to touch the $100K if I need to. Yes, the car is paid for, the house is currently a rental, however, we will probably build/buy a smaller house in the future. I have all of the toys that I need/want-- sure, could by some things, however, bought a new mandolin the other day and have had fun with it. I know, a boring engineer's life.




The only place to get a good return today is the stock market, but you need to have the tolerance for risk. If you need the liquidity in an emergency, it may take a few days to get the cash. Open up an online brokerage account, link the brokerage account to a bank account to allow timely electronic transfer of funds. That is how you get the "potential" for high returns and be as close to liquidity. The drawback is you must accept the fluctuations in the market and not panic. Time is on your side, unless you are in retirement or close to it. Don't invest in the fad stocks like google, facebook, etc, they do not pay dividends (High risk, high return). They are risky and your return is solely dependent on stock price. Don't invest in the stocks that do not increase in price, but return a dividend (Low risk, low return). You should focus on the stocks that do both, a nice dividend and constant price increase (Moderate risk, Moderate return). This is usually your balanced approach, nice dividend and some price increase.


----------



## BamaBino (Mar 19, 2013)

Power12 said:


> You should focus on the stocks that do both, a nice dividend and constant price increase (Moderate risk, Moderate return). This is usually your balanced approach, nice dividend and some price increase.


What you like to name some of those stocks?


----------



## snickerd3 (Mar 19, 2013)

we bought ADM stock last yr that was giving nice dividends and was relatively affordable to the avg joe. I don't have the exact details as mr snick deals with it but it was way better than interest rate on any savings account. I think the dividend were ranging btwn 20 and 40 bucks a quarter on $5k.


----------



## iwire (Mar 20, 2013)

Wow...i was out for a few days, we are talking about building man made island and volcano!

So, what's are the good moderate risk stocks that pay out dividends? I am thinking about Corning Stock since they are big in gorilla glass and their new bendable glass willow should be out soon.

My rainy fund is very flexible. I have some extra cash laying in checking acc anyway for 2-3 months worth. So, I can afford to move the funds out and can afford to wait for a few days if I need it. At present, majority of my funds are in high yield saving 0.85%!!! lol, and some in stocks. (like 15% in stock)

ADM stock is pretty high now...almost their peak 52 weeks..have to wait for the market correction before invest


----------



## snickerd3 (Mar 20, 2013)

^That it is. Mr snick sold it and made a nice little profit. He will buy it again when the price comes down. Their stocks are very cyclic in nature.


----------



## roadwreck (Mar 20, 2013)

iwire said:


> Wow...i was out for a few days, we are talking about building man made island and volcano!


If the worst sidetrack this topic takes is island building and volcanoes we are doing well.


----------



## iwire (Mar 20, 2013)

I like the idea buying property in midwest...but I have a bad taste in the mouth on real estate investment...it's a like damn dead weight! Maybe in east coast...

oh the other hand, maybe I should move the fund to Cyprus bank


----------



## snickerd3 (Mar 20, 2013)

Farm land in the midwest then? BUt then you have to deal with local farmers to farm it for you and not all of them are that generous with the crop earnings.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 20, 2013)

roadwreck said:


> iwire said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...i was out for a few days, we are talking about building man made island and volcano!
> ...


Fixt.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 20, 2013)

roadwreck said:


> iwire said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...i was out for a few days, we are talking about building man made island and volcano!
> ...




seeing that we're talking about money, this is entirely on topic.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 20, 2013)

You could always invest in boobs...

Unfortunately, once you buy one set, you can't really buy any more without losing 1/2 of what you have to the 1st set through the divorce...


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 20, 2013)

I'd make sure when you buy property it is near someone you know and trust to kind of keep an eye on it for you. I'd also check on some sort of Liability insurance, damn tresspassers get hurt on your property and somehow it is your fault...If you buy crop ground, make a contract in writing with your farmer, otherwise you may get stuck with no way of proving what your share distribution is. You can cash rent it by the acre or do it in shares with the farmer, but make sure you decide upfront what you are doing...


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 20, 2013)

Capt, that is definitely money!


----------



## iwire (Mar 20, 2013)

true that about farm land. There is no way i can buy something if I'm not nearby to check it out or to bring girl to impressed them! LOL

got no money, give you headache got way, don't know where to put it...!


----------



## roadwreck (Mar 20, 2013)

Dexman PE said:


> You could always invest in boobs...
> 
> Unfortunately, once you buy one set, you can't really buy any more without losing 1/2 of what you have to the 1st set through the divorce...


What if the first set were for your mistress?


----------



## Judowolf PE (Mar 20, 2013)

^ What if ya have an open minded spouse/GF...


----------



## iwire (Mar 20, 2013)

Judowolf PE said:


> ^ What if ya have an open minded spouse/GF...


or open relationship


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 20, 2013)

I'd be hard pressed to invest in boobies without some sort of commitment. Those things are expensive, and even more expensive if you get divorced...


----------



## Master slacker (Mar 20, 2013)

Our 8-months of living expenses are in our savings and checking accounts. Any net income beyond this goes to IRA, student loans, or mortgage. Simple.


----------



## Lumber Jim (Apr 3, 2013)

I'd park it in the garage if I had rainy day money. I'd make sure it was a hard top so that I could drive it on those rainy days...


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 3, 2013)

I signed the paperwork yesterday to start my first real estate partnership deal. By this time next week I will be a partial owner of a rental property...


----------



## pbrme (Apr 3, 2013)

good luck with that Dex. What sort? Duplex, single residence, time share?


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Apr 3, 2013)

Dex is a slumlord!


----------



## cdcengineer (Apr 3, 2013)

Rental property is only good when the tenant pays the rent and never calls with problems. Otherwise it'll keep you up at night.


----------



## Lumber Jim (Apr 3, 2013)

Congrats Dex!

You are doing this with completely with Rainy day money or is the rainy day money down payment?


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 3, 2013)

It's some extra cash I had from selling off some of my junk. The hope is that the equity in the property will become another part of the retirement fund.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Apr 3, 2013)

Congrats Dex, and good luck! :thumbs:


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Apr 3, 2013)

Karen?



Dexman PE said:


> It's some extra cash I had from selling off some of my junk.


----------



## Judowolf PE (Apr 3, 2013)

Dexman PE said:


> It's some extra cash I had from selling off some of my junk. The hope is that the equity in the property will become another part of the retirement fund.


Prostitution? The man has serious talent, who knew??


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 3, 2013)

As part of being a slumlord, I figured I should at least learn the lifestyle of my tennants...


----------



## pbrme (Apr 4, 2013)

^Reminded me of Kingpin


----------



## envirotex (Apr 4, 2013)

Dexman PE said:


> You could always invest in boobs...
> 
> Unfortunately, once you buy one set, you can't really buy any more without losing 1/2 of what you have to the 1st set through the divorce...




I would say that any money invested in those types of assets would probably have a good return...just as long as you have a good marketing strategy.


----------



## mevans154 (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm thinking about investing some money in Lendingclub.com.

Does anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## mudpuppy (Apr 5, 2013)

mevans154 said:


> I'm thinking about investing some money in Lendingclub.com. Does anyone have any experience with them?




I've been intrigued by this idea for several years, but I haven't taken the plunge. Would be interested to hear how it goes.


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Apr 5, 2013)

I have a couple of friends that have invested in LendingClub. They tried a mix of the C to D rated loans that have higher returns (with higher risk of default). One early complaint is that there are not very many loan requests and they take a while to fill, so your money isn't actually "invested" for a significant amount of time after you fund the account. Neither of them have started getting returns yet, so other than the early complaint, I have nothing to report.


----------



## mevans154 (Apr 8, 2013)

I just invested $500 in Lendingclub over the weekend. I live in NJ so I can't fund new loans directly, but there is a pretty active secondary market of people buying and selling loan notes. I was able to spread out my $500 over 29 different loans. I mainly picked C &amp; D rated loans, which yield between 12% to 16% returns.

Nothing to do now, but sit back and watch the results...


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Aug 16, 2013)

So, to bump an old thread...

I purchased a pair of tax lien certificates back in Nov 2010 for unpaid property taxes from 2009. Well, I got a letter from the County yesterday saying that the redemption period is almost done (the required "wait" time to give the property owners a chance to repay their back taxes before I file takeover paperwork), and I can go ahead and file for a treasurer's deed. I'm both nervous and excited over the fact that I stand a chance to get a $30k+ condo for only a ~$1400 investment...

I will post more details on how things go once I submit the paperwork...


----------



## snickerd3 (Aug 16, 2013)

mr snick has been watching the jim cramer mad moeny show of late to try his hand in the stock market. so far the recommendations have been paying off. There was an energy exploration company ( i don't recall the name) that is doing amazingly well. and he just bought some BP stock since they are in the low end of their cyclic nature. Apparently if they hold true to course come spring time there will be a nice prize at the end...and if not the diviends would have earned us about $100 or so.


----------

