# What is the typical passing percentage?



## 3gorgesdam

I didnt mean to start a new topic here. But all the stories make me have serious doubt about passing. So I am wondering what is the historical passing percentage for civil PE. 70% or 68% or 59%??? :wel


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## Timber

PE exam pass rates for April 2005 and October 2005

Examination

PE Agricultural

PE Chemical

PE Civil

PE Control Systems

PE Electrical and Computer

PE Environmental

PE Fire Protection

PE Industrial

PE Mechanical

PE Metallurgical

PE Mining and Mineral

PE Nuclear

PE Petroleum

PE Structural I

PE Structural II

First-time takers	Repeat takers

28% 20%

77% 27%

59%  26% 

78% 37%

58% 27%

73% 28%

43% 39%

62% 26%

65% 32%

45% 19%

62% 23%

58% 43%

89% 43%

46% 21%

58% 36%


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## 3gorgesdam

Thanks for the information. But what I really care about is the percentage of the correct answer :wel s in order to pass Civil PE.


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## Guest

3gorgesdam --

I might add to your hightened sense of paranoia, but I figured I would post it. 

The last time I took Civil PE Exam/Env Depth, my interpretation of the breakdown was as follows:

Breadth Env: 88 (7/8 correct)

Breadth Geotech: 75 (6/8 correct)

Breadth Structural: 38 (3/8 correct)

Breadth Transport: 50 (4/8 correct)

Breadth Water Res: 75 (6/8 correct)

Subtotal: 26/40 correct for Morning Session

Afternoon (Environmental)

Wastewater Treatment: 63 (5/8 correct)

Biology: 88 (7/8 correct)

Solid/Haz: 40 (2/5 correct)

Groundwater &amp; Fields: 80 (4/5 correct)

Geotech: 25 (1/4 correct)

Water Resource: 80 (8/10 correct)

Subtotal: 27/40 correct for the Afternoon Session

TOTAL: 53/80 = 66.3% = 69(NCEES SCALE)

Believe me ... I was screaming :wtf:

This past October 2006 exam, I took Civil PE/WR Depth. Guess how I feel now ..... :ruh:

We'll see what December brings. You can only hope for the best.

Regards,

JR


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## 3gorgesdam

JR, this is what I want to see. Thanks for sharing.

Am I close to be right to say that one had to answer 70% correctly in order to pass? That means total correct answer should be 56/80. In your case, you got 26+27 = 53/80.


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## Guest

> JR, this is what I want to see. Thanks for sharing.
> Am I close to be right to say that one had to answer 70% correctly in order to pass? That means total correct answer should be 56/80. In your case, you got 26+27 = 53/80.


3gorgesdown --

I think it depends.

I know someone who told me the following after I took one of my exams years back: :true:

"In April, I took the Water Resources module for the depth and got 14/40 correct and 28/40 correct for the morning for a total 42/80 = 52.5% which equated a NCEES 67 score." :dunno:

I think the best thing to do is NOT freak out - just keep cool. Wait to see what December bring ... 

Regards,

JR


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## tmckeon_PE

Without an adjusted cut score, 70% is 56 out of 80. However, it is possible to pass with a lower number of correct answers if the NCEES uses an adjusted cut score.


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## tmckeon_PE

jregieng or someone, please tell me what the "which equates to NCEES score" means, how it is figured out, what equations you or NCEES or the tooth fairy is using to adjust the scores magically higher.

Thanks.


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## Max Power

Has NCEES even said that 70% is passing? I have seen a lot of people say that, but I have never seen anything official.


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## Guest

> Without an adjusted cut score, 70% is 56 out of 80.  However, it is possible to pass with a lower number of correct answers if the NCEES uses an adjusted cut score.


I used the term "equates" in a very loose way. I took the exam back when NCEES provided your "scaled" score.

So, in the example I provided, 53/80 = 66.3 would be the RAW score.

My letter from NCEES told me I made a 69, which is the SCALED score.

Each exam is graded and scaled on it's own merits by a group of subject matter experts. :"the other board" mole: These subject matter experts develop the scaling for the exam based on the difficulty of the problems in their expert opinions. :MIG: After the exam is taken, NCEES then takes the exam, comments from examinees, and performs all sorts of statistics - they call it "problem norming" or "problem equating". :true:

In the end, it is all really magical. Nobody really knows ... unless you are .... :"the other board" mole:

That's really all I know. You are better off not torturing yourself by trying to pre-suppose how the scores will be distributed. :tone: I would try to find a diversion, until we hear the news in December. '.02'

Regards,

JR


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## TK22867

Talk about beating a dead horse...........

I hate to be blunt, but no matter how many people on this site think they have the NCEES math figured out, they should think again. The fact is that no matter how hard you try, you will never, ever, figure out how many you need to get correct to pass, blah, blah, blah. Nor will you figure out how the NCEES scored the exam or what the diagnostic breakdown actually shows besides areas that you need to improve on. There is so much "black magic" going on behind the scenes at NCEES that none of us will ever know about, that it is pretty much a waste of time to even discuss it.

We just all need to be patient, wait for the results, and if we didn't pass, give er' hell again!


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## frazil

THe first question reminded me of another question I had. Why is the passing rate for repeat takers so much lower than first time takers? I would think after seeing the exam it would be easier to know what to study.

I was also wondering why the California pass rates are so much lower than the average (40% pass, 60% fail).

I guess that's 2 questions...


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## Guest

> THe first question reminded me of another question I had.  Why is the passing rate for repeat takers so much lower than first time takers?  I would think after seeing the exam it would be easier to know what to study.
> I was also wondering why the California pass rates are so much lower than the average (40% pass, 60% fail).
> 
> I guess that's 2 questions...


frazil --

I am assuming that the % retakers is simply the number of test-takers that circled in an oval for &gt; first-time takers. If this is so, then my take on it is as follows the following assumptions and logic:

Assumption: Most exam takers pass the exam on the first pass. The sub-population of non-passing examinees is less than 50% (varies, but less than 50%).

Logic: The remaining sub-population of non-passing examinees form a population of "retake" examinees but exhibit a tendency "not pass" based on one of the following characteristics:

a. The NCEES exam has correctly determined they do not posses minimal competency for engineering;

b. The re-examinee has not adapted an optimal "passing" exam strategy (whatever that may be) to pass the exam; or

c. The re-examinee cannot pass the exam because of the examination conditions (i.e. attention deficit, testing anxiety, nicotine addiction, ... well you get the point).

I do not believe it is hard to believe that the % passing for those retaking the exam would be much lower than those taking the exam. Just my thoughts '.02'

Regards,

JR


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## DVINNY

I'll take number C.


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## frazil

dvinny

that makes sense. I can also imagine failing and feeling

a. too discouraged to study

b. that maybe I'd get lucky the 2nd time (if I came close)

c. that I put so many hours in the first time studying, which was hard on my family, and I can't really put them (me) through that again.

well let's just hope I don't have too...


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## ALBin517

> dvinny
> that makes sense. I can also imagine failing and feeling
> 
> a. too discouraged to study
> 
> b. that maybe I'd get lucky the 2nd time (if I came close)
> 
> c. that I put so many hours in the first time studying, which was hard on my family, and I can't really put them (me) through that again.
> 
> well let's just hope I don't have too...


I worked with a guy who fit this profile exactly.

Two guys from my office prepared together and took the test at the same time (PM transportation). One passed. The other never studied again until the week of hit re-tests. It took him four attempts to pass.


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## ARJ

> I was also wondering why the California pass rates are so much lower than the average (40% pass, 60% fail).


Someone correct me if I am wrong. The PE exam for most states is one day, one exam, correct? California is a two day exam. The first day is PE exam (8hrs). The second day is the Seismic exam and in the afternoon a Surveying Exam. So a person could pass one or two of the three exams and still "fail" the PE exam. I haven't seen a separate statistic stating the percentage of how many passed or failed each exam. They're always lumped together. Either you passed all three or not. So based on that the reported passing rate would lower. That's why many people I know, including me, choose to prepare for one exam at a time instead of cramming for all three: :study :study :study Once you pass an exam, you don't have to take it again. :???:


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## benbo

"I haven't seen a separate statistic stating the percentage of how many passed or failed each exam."

This link lists pass rates for each exam-

http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/e_ap06stats.htm


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## ARJ

> "I haven't seen a separate statistic stating the percentage of how many passed or failed each exam."
> This link lists pass rates for each exam-
> 
> http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/e_ap06stats.htm


Thank's for that link benbo.

Based on the stats and my own experience I think the passing rate in California is lower because most people attempt to pass all three exams at once. Studying and Passing the PE alone is difficult enough in itself. Having to take the time that you would use to study for the PE and divide it by 3 presents a quite challenge not to show up on exam day half a$$ prepared for 3 exams. I had to accept this reality. Like probably most of us, I'm married with children working full time. Time is hard to come by. The study for all three exams approach didn't work for me. I had to be patient and realistic and study for one at a time.


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## TK22867

> dvinny
> that makes sense. I can also imagine failing and feeling
> 
> a. too discouraged to study
> 
> b. that maybe I'd get lucky the 2nd time (if I came close)
> 
> c. that I put so many hours in the first time studying, which was hard on my family, and I can't really put them (me) through that again.
> 
> well let's just hope I don't have too...


I'd take A.

I studied my butt off and If I didn't pass, that means it takes a heck of a lot more than I am willing to sacrifice just for two different letters behind my name.

That being said, we should all realize that taking and passing the P.E. exam is just a pebble of sand in the beach of life.


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## tmckeon_PE

Might be a pebble, but what a pricey pebble it can be. If you start your own engineering company (or service other engineering companies) you might be able to charge more than $65 per hour for your services. Based on a 2,080 hour year (40 hours a week) that would be $135,200. Tell me which engineer working for another firm can get that salary (BTW, figures are taken from about 9 years ago...I figure that the hourly chargeable rate is even higher in FL now).


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## TK22867

Now deduct your costs for overhead, annual software licenses, professional liability insurance (which you really should have), etc., and you'll find working for yourself isn't as profitable as you think it is.

Plus, unless you somehow have multiple projects, there is no way you'd actually be able to bill 40 hours a week to your clients.

That's the funny thing about being a PE. Just because you may have those two letters behind your name because you were able to take and pass an exam does not necessarily mean you are a better engineer than someone without one. I know plenty of folks that are mighty intelligent, but do not have there PE.

Won't I be the same engineer after I pass the exam (if I do)? I don't think passing the exam will increase my engineering ability. Maybe those two letters behind my name will finally unleash the JEDI powers in me that I know I have! Are you scared? You will be, You will be!


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## CiceroKid

Why do repeat takers have a lower pass rate than first-time takers?

Analogy: take 100 people and see how many can high-jump 4 ft. Let's say 75 clear the bar and 25 fail.

Now give the 25, the ones who failed, a second chance. Probably the success rate would be less than the original 75%.


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## DVINNY

Yes, of that 25, they've already proved their ability to fail.

But I'm gonna keep taking it, cause you know the saying "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then"


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