# Will the PE exam move to CBT in near future?



## sunny777 (Apr 30, 2015)

Just like FE exam moved to CBT - will the PE exam move to CBT in near future? It will be great as the results might come out sooner if that happens.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 30, 2015)

the plan is to move the PE to cbt but i don't see it in the near future because it will have to go closed book and there are lots of reference manuals that need to get written.


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## PE4IE (Apr 30, 2015)

NCEES Committee had already voted to move PE in to CBT. But I think it will take more time before it actually comes out. But I agree.. It would be nice to see the results soon. Cant really wait for 40-50 days.

http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-approves-expanding-computer-based-testing-to-pe-ps-exams-at-2012-annual-meeting/


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## sunny777 (Apr 30, 2015)

@snickerd3 - why will CBT test be closed book?


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## matt267 PE (Apr 30, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> @snickerd3 - why will CBT test be closed book?


The cbt would be given at a testing center and may not have room for boxes of books.


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## Road Guy (Apr 30, 2015)

I wonder what color the mouse will be?


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## matt267 PE (Apr 30, 2015)

Probably be touch screen.


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## notsocivil PE (Apr 30, 2015)

I hope I pass before they switch it over! Drawing all over the diagrams is really helpful in solving some of the more difficult problems.

Seismic and surveying (CA civil) were annoying enough on the computer with a small desk. They still let you bring in as many references as you can carry in one trip though, so maybe CBT doesn't necessarily mean closed-book.


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## sunny777 (May 1, 2015)

There is no way it can be closed book. There is no way a person can memorize all formulae correctly of so many subjects. In real structural engineering world - it does not work like that. So even if its CBT I believe it will be open book.

If it becomes closed book then the level of difficulty would become way lower I guess.


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> There is no way it can be closed book. There is no way a person can memorize all formulae correctly of so many subjects. In real structural engineering world - it does not work like that. So even if its CBT I believe it will be open book.
> 
> If it becomes closed book then the level of difficulty would become way lower I guess.


Either that, or they would give you an electronic reference manual like they do with the FE exam.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 1, 2015)

matt267 said:


> sunny777 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way it can be closed book. There is no way a person can memorize all formulae correctly of so many subjects. In real structural engineering world - it does not work like that. So even if its CBT I believe it will be open book.
> ...


That would be a huge pdf file. Might crash the test centers server.


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

This topic has been discussed before: http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=21393

Here is a press release from NCEES going back a few years: http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-approves-expanding-computer-based-testing-to-pe-ps-exams-at-2012-annual-meeting/


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## PE4IE (May 1, 2015)

My idea would to be have only answer sheets in the computer. After they finish the exam in a big hall (or whatever) lets the examinees go in to a testing center and enter their answer in a computer that has answer sheets. I know this idea would create lot of debate...


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 1, 2015)

How is that a better alternative to the currently used scantrons? What benefit is there to NCEES to have the examinee manually enter answers into the computer? It would be more time consuming, harder to monitor for cheating, and the risk of incorrect data entry would be a problem for examinees.

Matt has it right on this one. A CBT PE exam would require discipline specific references and is probably modeled on the current CBT FE exam.


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## The Wizard (May 1, 2015)

The closed book thing will never happen, and the guy who suggested it clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. When I took the survey and seismic exam via CBT, I was allowed one banker box full of books. What sucked was the lack of desk space. You really can only have basically one book out at a time. The rest of the space is wasted with the stupid computer and your scratch paper and calculator.

When I took my survey exam, it was supposed to be the last pencil and scantron exam like the 8hr before CBT started, but there turned out to be errors in the testing materials and the survey exam was cancelled that year for everyone! The exam was rescheduled for 3 weeks later but it went CBT! I was part of the group that experienced CBT for the very first time

I hate CBT testing. No desk space, other people in the testing center are typing away making noise, people are coming and going constantly, and somethings on the screen need to be written down so that you can draw on them and figure stuff out, thus wasting time.

When I took CBT seismic (for the second time), I got there early and was the first person to arrive at the testing center. I requested the biggest desk and the one with the most light. By doing so, I gained an additional 12" on each side of the cubicle; it was the only desk like it. I then put on their supplied headphones to block out the distracting noise, and hammered out the dreadful Seismic Exam.

I then passed the 8hr will the good ol' pencil and scantron with tons of desk space and couldn't be happier.


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## iwire (May 1, 2015)

I'm so glad I'm done already.

Maybe. They give tablet to input answers. Gather up all pencils those will be collector items!


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## The Wizard (May 1, 2015)

Nice ninja edit Matt. Wrong exam buddy.


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

I think the survey is closed book now.

http://ncees.org/exams/ps-exam/


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

The Wizard said:


> Nice ninja edit Matt. Wrong exam buddy.


Is it?
Edit:

How many different survey exams does ncees administrator?


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## The Wizard (May 1, 2015)

matt267 said:


> The Wizard said:
> 
> 
> > Nice ninja edit Matt. Wrong exam buddy.
> ...


Basic Survey exam is required for PE (CA only)...and Seismic too . Then there's the two survey exams for the actual PLS surveyor license (PS is like our EIT/FE, the the PLS is like our PE)


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

Ah, that's where I'm confused. I thought there was an ncees FS exam and an ncees PS exam.

So your cbt experience is based on California tests? I wonder if ncees will follow their lead.


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## The Wizard (May 1, 2015)

matt267 said:


> Ah, that's where I'm confused. I thought there was an ncees FS exam and an ncees PS exam.
> 
> So your cbt experience is based on California tests? I wonder if ncees will follow their lead.


Yes, my experience is based on the CA (only) survey and seismic CBT exams... so glad this stuff is over for me.


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

I bet.

So it looks like the ncees survey exam is closed but the CA survey is open. The ncees pe exam can go either way I guess.


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## JB66money (May 1, 2015)

That would suck if they made the PE exam a CBT exam. Be careful of what you wish for., you just may get.


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## JB66money (May 1, 2015)

I thank God that He blessed me to pass both the FE and PE exams before they were converted to CBTs. I don't care if I had to wait before I got my results. There is nothing like the printed word in front of you.


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## matt267 PE (May 1, 2015)

I took the last paper FE on October 2013. I hope I get my PE before it goes CBT.


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## Mike in Gastonia (May 1, 2015)

matt267 said:


> Ah, that's where I'm confused. I thought there was an ncees FS exam and an ncees PS exam.
> 
> So your cbt experience is based on California tests? I wonder if ncees will follow their lead.


You're correct. Surveying national exams are FS and PS - developed by NCEES. Each state has their own state-specific surveying exam on local rules and regulations specific to their state.


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## iwire (May 1, 2015)

JB66money said:


> I thank God that He blessed me to pass both the FE and PE exams before they were converted to CBTs. I don't care if I had to wait before I got my results. There is nothing like the printed word in front of you.


i know right. I am old school and I like the paper and especially the pencil!


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 2, 2015)

I got myself a nice collection of pencils!


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## iwire (May 2, 2015)

Ken 3.0 said:


> I got myself a nice collection of pencils!


We need to start a thread for showcase of pencils LOL


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## seandapaul24 (May 2, 2015)

JB66money said:


> I thank *God* that He blessed me to pass both the FE and PE exams before they were converted to CBTs. I don't care if I had to wait before I got my results. There is nothing like the printed word in front of you.






God? That's an assumption on your part that there is one. Like all good engineers, let's not forget to state our assumptions.


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 2, 2015)

Oh boy here we go again. Where's goodall when you don't need him.


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## matt267 PE (May 2, 2015)




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## iwire (May 3, 2015)

seandapaul24 said:


> JB66money said:
> 
> 
> > I thank *God* that He blessed me to pass both the FE and PE exams before they were converted to CBTs. I don't care if I had to wait before I got my results. There is nothing like the printed word in front of you.
> ...


Why do you care what he believed in? Do it matter to you or somehow the word God hurts your feeling? That his assumption, and his only


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## Lumber Jim (May 4, 2015)

The best assumption... ever.


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## PE4IE (May 4, 2015)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> How is that a better alternative to the currently used scantrons? What benefit is there to NCEES to have the examinee manually enter answers into the computer? It would be more time consuming, harder to monitor for cheating, and the risk of incorrect data entry would be a problem for examinees.
> 
> Matt has it right on this one. A CBT PE exam would require discipline specific references and is probably modeled on the current CBT FE exam.


I heard that it takes about 4 weeks for the answer sheets to reach NCEES and manually scanned. Probably this time could be saved! I agree it is harder to monitor for cheating. There shd be a way to enter those answer in the computer to make things faster!


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## Sapper PE LS (May 4, 2015)

PE4IE said:


> Ramnares P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > How is that a better alternative to the currently used scantrons? What benefit is there to NCEES to have the examinee manually enter answers into the computer? It would be more time consuming, harder to monitor for cheating, and the risk of incorrect data entry would be a problem for examinees.
> ...




When you start a sentence with "I heard" and then follow that with something that it is unlikely to be true, consider evaluating what you are writing, revise it or delete it, and save everybody from wasting their time reading it or yet further being compelled to respond to it at absolutely no avail.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 4, 2015)

Well now, this thread has gotten totally off track. And for the record, it wasn't my fault this time!


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## sunny777 (May 4, 2015)

Since how many years now it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get the PE results? It feels we are in the 1970's :Locolaugh: . In this day and age of smart phones, and streaming movies on HDTV's - the time to get PE results has not moved faster.


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## sunny777 (May 4, 2015)

I am really astonished at the time it takes to get the PE results. Maybe they should hire more people to get the results out faster and raise the exam fees for that.


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## knight1fox3 (May 4, 2015)




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## NightWatch (May 4, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> I am really astonished at the time it takes to get the PE results. Maybe they should hire more people to get the results out faster and raise the exam fees for that.


I'm really astonished at how much it costs for health care. And since I have no idea whatsoever what's involved in the process, I think I'll offer my opinion - maybe they should just charge less......


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 4, 2015)

There was a really good rationalization as to the whole grading process last cycle. 8-10 weeks is about right. We all did it, so try and enjoy life while waiting. Nothing is going to change in the interim.


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## PE4IE (May 4, 2015)

Sap said:


> PE4IE said:
> 
> 
> > Ramnares P.E. said:
> ...


Okay.. My apologies.


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## seandapaul24 (May 4, 2015)

iwire said:


> seandapaul24 said:
> 
> 
> > JB66money said:
> ...






I don't care what anyone believes in. However, if we are going to perpetuate it in public, be prepared to hear an alternate view!


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## seandapaul24 (May 4, 2015)

Lumber Jim said:


> The best assumption... ever.






You used two absolute terms 'best' and 'ever'. It is highly unlikely that either is right notwithstanding both of them being right at the same time.

Nice art work but we should be open minded.


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## matt267 PE (May 4, 2015)

What are we talking about again?


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## iwire (May 4, 2015)

seandapaul24 said:


> iwire said:
> 
> 
> > seandapaul24 said:
> ...


sure thing boss...Thanks God for everything.


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## iwire (May 4, 2015)

seandapaul24 said:


> Lumber Jim said:
> 
> 
> > The best assumption... ever.
> ...


Not sure if you are open minded though since you are the one literally going on on him when he said Thanks God the the supposed imaginary mystic blessed "HIM" not you or anyone else ..why you even bothered by that?


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## snickerd3 (May 5, 2015)

matt267 said:


> sunny777 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way it can be closed book. There is no way a person can memorize all formulae correctly of so many subjects. In real structural engineering world - it does not work like that. So even if its CBT I believe it will be open book.
> ...


this


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## CU07 (May 5, 2015)

snickerd3 said:


> matt267 said:
> 
> 
> > sunny777 said:
> ...


The testing centers have said they don't want to be responsible for checking references and making sure examinees aren't writing in their books. I guess it sounds like it's manageable based on the CA exams, but that's what I heard from NCEES a couple years ago.


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## seandapaul24 (May 5, 2015)

iwire said:


> seandapaul24 said:
> 
> 
> > Lumber Jim said:
> ...




Obviously I was referring to his use of absolute terms but you conflated it with his alleged god. It looks like you have an issue with a second opinion. If we are to perpetuate belief over reason or critical thinking be prepare for a second opinion.


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## matt267 PE (May 5, 2015)

seandapaul24 said:


> ... If *we* are to perpetuate belief over reason or critical thinking be prepare for a second opinion.


Sorry, but I don't think anyone here asked *you* to believe in anything.

Edit:

Expect maybe the cut score, or the color of the pencil, etc.


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## Road Guy (May 5, 2015)

53. Write it down


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## balavay (May 5, 2015)

matt267 said:


> seandapaul24 said:
> 
> 
> > ... If *we* are to perpetuate belief over reason or critical thinking be prepare for a second opinion.
> ...


He simply stated that, being on an engineering based forum, one would expect reason and critical thinking to be dominant rather than beliefs. And if that is not the case, sure, it is acceptable, just be prepared for a different opinion.


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## seandapaul24 (May 5, 2015)

matt267 said:


> seandapaul24 said:
> 
> 
> > ... If *we* are to perpetuate belief over reason or critical thinking be prepare for a second opinion.
> ...



Except if we are going to make references to god, know that some people don't think it's a foregone conclusion and be prepared for a second opinion.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

Go on, tell me more about your second opinion. Wait, nevermind, I never asked in the first place.

What do you kind gentleman think about a cbt pe? I think this thread was lookoing for those opinions.


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Stop trying to keep this thread on topic Matt and let's get back to uselessly insulting religious belief's instead.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> Stop trying to keep this thread on topic Matt and let's get back to *uselessly *insulting religious belief's instead.


Useless?

Well, that just be your opinion. Be prepared to hear a second, third, forth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth counter opinion. Because you opinion sucks and mines is betterer.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 6, 2015)

Anyone need to borrow boxing gloves? I hear pac-man won't be using his any time soon.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

I guess the fight of the century wasn't?


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Ken 3.0 said:


> Anyone need to borrow boxing gloves? I hear pac-man won't be using his any time soon.




You can have Mayweather's too, I hear he'll be too busy hugging anyone he can fight find.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

Laugh all you want, because he's laughing to the bank to cash his $100 millions check.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

https://news.yahoo.com/suit-filed-against-pacquiao-not-disclosing-injury-230900526--spt.html

This is getting more interesting than the fight itself.



> Manny Pacquiao and his handlers have been hit with a lawsuit asking for damages for anyone who paid to watch his fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr. because he failed to disclose his shoulder was injured.


I hope he gets a second opinion from his lawyers. Ram, maybe your son can help?


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Low blow bro ^


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

matt267 said:


> Laugh all you want, because he's laughing to the bank to cash his $100 millions check.




He's supposedly going to end up with close to $200M counting the pay per view sales etc.


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## Sapper PE LS (May 6, 2015)

Word of advice. Don't argue about religion in the results threads.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 6, 2015)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> matt267 said:
> 
> 
> > Laugh all you want, because he's laughing to the bank to cash his $100 millions check.
> ...


Until the lawsuit settles! [emoji109]


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Sap said:


> Word of advice. Don't argue about religion in the results threads.




Listen to the man or risk:


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

^ Ram, I can't see the pic you posted, but I'm going to assume it has something to do with a large hammer shaped object.

If so:


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Ban ban ban!


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@snickerd3 - what will the examiners check then? - How will they make sure that people are not copying questions from the computer into their books? Maybe they have CCTVs in each cubicle.

But there is nothing like paper and pencil exam - only thing I want and everybody wants is quck results for PE exams. Its hard waiting for 40-50 days for such an important exam of your life. Maybe they should have PE exam of 4 hours each day for 2 days to reduce the stress on students taking exam. This 8 hour exam and EIT exam was the longest I took in my whole life. Maybe they should offer PE exam 4 hours duration AM portion in January and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in April and again 4 hours PE exam - AM portion in July and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in October to reduce stress and cramming. NCEES should take our advice to reduce stress on students - I think. My back was paining for few days after lifting those bags for the exam.


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## snickerd3 (May 6, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> @snickerd3 - what will the examiners check then? - How will they make sure that people are not copying questions from the computer into their books? Maybe they have CCTVs in each cubicle.
> 
> But there is nothing like paper and pencil exam - only thing I want and everybody wants is quck results for PE exams. Its hard waiting for 40-50 days for such an important exam of your life. Maybe they should have PE exam of 4 hours each day for 2 days to reduce the stress on students taking exam. This 8 hour exam and EIT exam was the longest I took in my whole life. Maybe they should offer PE exam 4 hours duration AM portion in January and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in April and again 4 hours PE exam - AM portion in July and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in October to reduce stress and cramming. NCEES should take our advice to reduce stress on students - I think. My back was paining for few days after lifting those bags for the exam.


that's the point there will be no books, the provided reference manual will be like the one for the FE, on the computer. and you do all your work on essentially white boards pages.


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> @snickerd3 - what will the examiners check then? - How will they make sure that people are not copying questions from the computer into their books? Maybe they have CCTVs in each cubicle.
> 
> But there is nothing like paper and pencil exam - only thing I want and everybody wants is quck results for PE exams. Its hard waiting for 40-50 days for such an important exam of your life. Maybe they should have PE exam of 4 hours each day for 2 days to reduce the stress on students taking exam. This 8 hour exam and EIT exam was the longest I took in my whole life. Maybe they should offer PE exam 4 hours duration AM portion in January and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in April and again 4 hours PE exam - AM portion in July and 4 hour PE exam depth portion in October to reduce stress and cramming. *NCEES should take our advice to reduce stress on students* - I think. My back was paining for few days after lifting those bags for the exam.




If you can't deal with an 8-hour exam I'm not sure how long you'll survive in a fast paced work environment.


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## snickerd3 (May 6, 2015)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> sunny777 said:
> 
> 
> > @snickerd3 - what will the examiners check then? - How will they make sure that people are not copying questions from the computer into their books? Maybe they have CCTVs in each cubicle.
> ...


Thanks Ram, i wasn't going to go there, but you did for me.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

Comment deleted

edit:

Nevermind.


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## snickerd3 (May 6, 2015)

matt267 said:


> Comment deleted
> 
> edit:
> 
> Nevermind.


Ha! Chicken? I resembled that deleted remark


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

Chicken? Yes, that's what I'm having for lunch.


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

snickerd3 said:


> Ramnares P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > sunny777 said:
> ...




I'm here for you. I'm sure Mike would have said it eventually anyway.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@Ramnares - are you moderator?


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> @Ramnares - are you moderator?




No, but that shouldn't affect what you have to say.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@Ramnares - what was that timestamp - little while ago - which is not seen now?


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Not sure what you're talking about regarding timestamp.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@snickerd3 - what was that timestamp?

@Ramnares - sorry - I saw timestamp by snickerd3 earlier.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@Ramnares - I am already surviving fast paced work environment. I love 8 hour exam by the way.


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## matt267 PE (May 6, 2015)

sunny777 said:


> @snickerd3 - what was that timestamp?
> 
> @Ramnares - sorry - I saw timestamp by snickerd3 earlier.


Every once in awhile, a post with a quote will get messed up when the page loads. If you refresh the page, it'll display properly. I wonder if that's what you saw.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

@matt267 - thank you very much - thats what happened I think.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

Cant wait for the PE results. What will come first - the letter or the result online?


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## Ramnares P.E. (May 6, 2015)

Usually the online results are faster than the physical letter. NCEES account is pretty good about having the results up.


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## sunny777 (May 6, 2015)

Anyone here - structural engineer PE in the making in Oil and Gas?


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## Lumber Jim (May 11, 2015)

Sap said:


> Word of advice. Don't argue about religion in the results threads.
















Just trying to keep things light-hearted around here while everyone waits for results...


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## sunny777 (May 11, 2015)

I am guessing that the results may be out anyday between 5/26 (39 days) to 5/29 (6 weeks). I had a dream about my result.


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## ptatohed (May 11, 2015)

Moved (based on the thread title/question, not the topic(s) that were subsequently discussed).


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## mustang462002 (May 12, 2015)

"I heard"

That the graphite issue will once again rear its ugly head and delay test results.


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## Judowolf PE (May 14, 2015)

So Sunny did you pass in the dream?


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