# Vertical and horizontal at the same month



## MIPE (Jan 2, 2017)

My employer is rushing me to take the SE exam as soon as possible. I do design concrete and steel structures every day so I am ready to take an exam any time on those subjects. To take the exam this April, I need to get more familiar with other subjects including Timber and bridges. For those who took that exam:

1- Is it doable to write both exam at the same month? It it a good idea? It is better to postpone both exams to October for  better overall preparation? Or take one exam at a time April them Oct?

2- If I started reviewing Timber and Bridges now  without too much experience in them ( but I have a strong overall engineer base), Will I be able to cover them enough to take both exam this April?  I am taking the structures exam.

Any advise !!!!


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## StandardPractice (Jan 2, 2017)

I plan to take both vertical and lateral in Spring as well. From the numerous threads and tip pages I have read, it really comes down to the individual. There are positives and negatives to both approaches. My questions to you would be the following:

1.


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## StandardPractice (Jan 2, 2017)

StandardPractice said:


> I plan to take both vertical and lateral in Spring as well. From the numerous threads and tip pages I have read, it really comes down to the individual. There are positives and negatives to both approaches. My questions to you would be the following:
> 
> 1.


To finish my thoughts...

1. Have you set-up a preliminary study scheduling the topics you plan to cover in the approximate 3.5 months? Is it realistic given your other responsibilities?

2. Do you have the motivation to study for both exams?


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## MIPE (Jan 2, 2017)

Thanks StandardPractice,

-  I can study for 3 hours a day until the exam date. My study schedule is to start first with the stuff I am not very familiar during and finish them during January then have a general review for the rest of subjects during Feb to mid March. Finally, only solving problems fromm mid march to the exam day (not too many problem books available though).

- I have the motivation for sure but I hate to fail in any of the exams. I still have about a month to decided before the deadline.


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## David Connor SE (Jan 2, 2017)

MIPE,

My suggestion is to do 1 component at a time, but if your boss is breathing down your neck you should maybe go ahead and do both. Even if  you don't pass 1 or both components you will at least have had the experience of taking the exam and can gauge its difficulty.

These are the study guide books I would recommend picking up. These will help your studying go faster and more "pinpoint."

1. The book I wrote for bridges. It's 40 vertical and 40 lateral bridge example questions. You can buy it from this link. https://www.createspace.com/6393402

2. The SEAOC IBC 2012 Seismic Design Manual Volume 1. Must have for seismic study for the lateral exam. See Amazon.  Author is iccsafe.

3. PPI's 16-hour SE Exam for Buildings. This is a complete vertical and lateral exam for buildings and closely matches the difficulty of the actual exam. https://ppi2pass.com/16-hour-structural-engineering-se-practice-exam-for-buildings-stbdpx3.html

4. Since you don't have much timber design experience maybe get PPI's Timber Design Book. https://ppi2pass.com/timber-design-for-the-civil-and-structural-pe-exams-cstb7.html

5. You will also need to know masonry, but there isn't a good masonry book on the market for the SE exam so maybe a masonry textbook or just study the code.

There are other books out there as well, but given the short amount of time you have these books will probably be all that you can cover.

Of course, you will need all of the latest codes that the exam tests on as well. 

Good luck!


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## MIPE (Jan 3, 2017)

Dave,

Thanks alot. I have already 1,2, and 5. I will order 3 this month and use it to examine myself before i register for the exam. I do not have 4 but it looks like it does not cover lateral load elements, i.e., shear walls, diaphragms, etc, which i am not very good at.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jan 3, 2017)

A few thoughts of my own:


Sounds feasible for you to take both and I'd recommend it for your situation.

For wood I recommend Breyer's Wood Design textbook; reading the majority of this text will be almost everything you need for wood design.

For masonry David is right that there's no good "go to" reference for masonry on the exam. I'd personally recommend the MDG-7 Masonry Designers' Guide as it has a number of good examples. I'd also recommend the boring, but useful, practice of reading the code. While tedious the code sections applicable to the exam are actually fairly short. I'd also pick up a copy of the masonry ASD pamphlet from S.K. Gosh.

I also highly recommend SEAOC Vol 1. You'll also want to do the tedious but highly recommended job of skimming the ASCE 7 code's wind and seismic provisions. Also, take a glance at LL reduction, ice and snow loads, and the commentary to the seismic provisions (you can download them if you have an earlier printing of ASCE 7-10).

At 3 hours per day you should be just about right to get the minimum recommended study hours in to take both components before April. I'd definitely plan on setting up a study schedule. I'd also suggest that given this is work driven that you see about work paying for a review course. This will help a lot with your study schedule and getting you familiar with areas you don't deal with day to day. I'd recommend PPI's course but I teach it so I'm biased. I hear good things about EET as well.

Use the AISC Seismic Design Manual's examples for studying steel seismic. Very, very good reference for studying and during the exam.

PCI note on ACI-318 is very useful for concrete, and it's free.

I'd get like 75% of your studying done in all exam topics (use the NCEES SE exam specification to find the exam topics) and then take a practice exam (either PPI's or NCEES's). Use this to find any areas you missed or feel you were light on and then take the other sample exam a week or two before the exam.

AASHTO has a discount for SE exam takers; google it.


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## smahurin (Jan 3, 2017)

As stated, it's really up to you whether you want to take both at once.  There are pro's and con's.  I took both at once as I wanted to get them out of the way ASAP and not drag out my studying.  Luckily... it worked.  

I think you could take both this April.  For what little it's worth I took both SE tests in April of 2015 and didn't register or start studying for the test until february of 2015.  

In addition to the 16hr PPI practice exam that DavidConnor suggested, I'd also pick up the NCEES SE practice exam.  I thought it was hugely helpful working through both of those exams.


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## Mithrandir918 (Jan 3, 2017)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> At 3 hours per day you should be just about right to get the minimum recommended study hours in to take both components before April.


What does PPI say is the recommended hours of study?


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## David Connor SE (Jan 3, 2017)

Yeah, the PPI Timber book does not go over diaphragms and shear walls. You pretty much have to study the IBC code and SDPWS (watch those footnotes!) for wood lateral. NDS also has a solved examples problems book, for NDS 2005 though, but the concepts should still be the same.


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## MIPE (Jan 3, 2017)

Thanks everyone,

 After looking at the questions at the NCEES SE practice exam book and your feedback, I think taking both exam is still doable. At least being under time pressure will make me more serious to have real progress in my study. I will go with that opinion unless things change before the end of January. I will not register until few days before the deadline.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jan 3, 2017)

Mithrandir918 said:


> What does PPI say is the recommended hours of study?


Nathan (the other course instructor) and I both recommend a minimum of 150 hours of solid study time per exam day. So, 300 total / 100 or so days until the exam = 3 hours per day. Obviously some days the OP wont be able to study but if they can make it up I believe they have a decent shot.

Definitely depends on the person, though. Ideally I'd start studying much earlier than now and ramp up my studies as one gets closer to the exam day. This way you don't get burned out, get more than the minimum hours in, and keep more studying closer to the exam day to keep things fresh in your mind.


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## Mithrandir918 (Jan 3, 2017)

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Nathan (the other course instructor) and I both recommend a minimum of 150 hours of solid study time per exam day. So, 300 total / 100 or so days until the exam = 3 hours per day. Obviously some days the OP wont be able to study but if they can make it up I believe they have a decent shot.
> 
> Definitely depends on the person, though. Ideally I'd start studying much earlier than now and ramp up my studies as one gets closer to the exam day. This way you don't get burned out, get more than the minimum hours in, and keep more studying closer to the exam day to keep things fresh in your mind.


Yes, this seems reasonable, this is my 3rd go around with Day 2 and last time I probably studied 220 hrs for the one exam and it seem by the end i forgot most of what I started studying.  I pass the afternoon no problem but I cant get by the morning.  Iam probably starting to early if I start in January


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jan 3, 2017)

Mithrandir918 said:


> Iam probably starting to early if I start in January


I don't think so; use the early time for general studies and for a wide review of the various materials and topics. Then, dive into the details as you get closer to the exam. Set aside the final week or two for a overall review of the material you've studied to try to get it fresh in your mind.


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## David Connor SE (Jan 3, 2017)

Don't forget also, if you don't have all the codes, that will take time to buy them, or print them out.  Also, once you get the codes expect it to take a week or 2 just to tab the codes. You will need to tab your codes because the time it takes for you to solve a problem is just as important as knowing the concepts.


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## smahurin (Jan 3, 2017)

I agree with David Connor on making sure to tab out your codes.  This is maybe the worst advice someone will give you, but I felt that the exams were an exercise in random and obscure code provision lookups.  I felt knowing your way around the codes quickly was almost more important than actually knowing what and how to work the problems... maybe ignore the second part of that sentence, but in all seriousness knowing your way around the codes (with help from tabs or whatever) is hugely helpful.


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## TehMightyEngineer (Jan 3, 2017)

I'd agree with the above two posts with the caveat that don't go nuts tabbing things. Tab things you know you will need frequently. Tab and highlight things you discover you need or suspect you'll need to find during the exam. Anything else that can be found using the index or other quick lookup table/example/etc. I would _not_ tab.

For example, I'd tab the welding section of the AISC specification as you can almost guarantee a weld of some type will show up. I would not tab HSS connection section as you aren't sure that will show up and it's easy enough to find it using the index. However, I would highlight key areas in the HSS connection section as if you do need that section I would want to be able to quickly reference the critical concepts.


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## David Connor SE (Jan 3, 2017)

TehMightyEngineer is correct.  I found out the hard way on over-tabbing my codes and had to go back and re-do.

Also, here is another free tip that I also have in my book. Leave some space in the middle of the outer page edges where you do NOT put tabs. This is so when you use your thumb on the edge of the pages it doesn't get "caught" on the tabs. See attached pdf.

View attachment Book Tabbing.pdf


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## VTBridge (Jan 3, 2017)

To offer a different perspective, I'm an unapologetic over-tabber and it's worked out. I tab the sections on the page edge opposite the spine, then tab the key points on the top and bottom. It's easy to find a section from the index, but even quicker when there is a handle. Especially when variables are in the front of a section it was nice to easily go back and forth (CERM). Often, I can remember that I tabbed something during a practice problem and just scan my tabs for the right one. I pay attention to the tab colors while studying and let my sub-conscious remember them. I don't "reorganize" my tabs shortly before test day.

I also itemize all practice problems by book and by material and cross reference section numbers with page numbers. Probably, the end result is too much information, but the exercise of creating the information was helpful. Either way, I took it all to the exams and don't feel I got confused by my tabs and lists.

Not saying my method is right, (it's clearly nuerotic at best) just that if you find yourself doing something different than most, do a few practice tests to see if it works for you rather than discarding based on popular opinion.


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## David Connor SE (Jan 4, 2017)

Good point VTBridge. Do whatever works best for you.  I think I found the overtabbing to be a problem more on the AISC Code books because they are a couple inches shorter than ACI, 8.5x11 paper.  Plus the Steel Manual just has so much info and tables in it. Might have better luck with tabs on the "taller" books.  

And we may be overthinking this, but hey, that's what engineers do.


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## PowerStroke79_PE (Jan 7, 2017)

David Connor said:


> MIPE,
> 
> My suggestion is to do 1 component at a time, but if your boss is breathing down your neck you should maybe go ahead and do both. Even if  you don't pass 1 or both components you will at least have had the experience of taking the exam and can gauge its difficulty.
> 
> ...


I have 3 Masonry books on Design, 1 on Skills &amp; Performance and of course the code. 

1. Reinforced Masonry Design by Robert R. Schneider &amp; Walter L. Dickey

2. Design of Reinforced Masonry Structures by Narendra Taly

3. Masonry Design &amp; Detailing by Christine Beall, NCARB,CCS

My favorite is Schneider, but its a bit old. Taly is also good, not so old. Are you familiar with these texts? Could you share your opinion on these books being used for the PE/SE exam?


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## David Connor SE (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't have any of those books or have ever used, so I can't say.  But this is the book that I used for masonry study, and in everyday practice.

https://www.amazon.com/Masonry-Structural-Design-Richard-Klingner/dp/007163830X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1483980348&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=masonry+design


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## PowerStroke79_PE (Jan 9, 2017)

David Connor said:


> I don't have any of those books or have ever used, so I can't say.  But this is the book that I used for masonry study, and in everyday practice.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Masonry-Structural-Design-Richard-Klingner/dp/007163830X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1483980348&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=masonry+design


Thank you for the reply. Forty bucks on amazon. Good to go.


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