# SE Exam Design Standards - AASHTO Specification



## mcg7996

I am preparing to take the SE Vertical - Buildings exam this October (2021). I reviewed the required design standards and it has been updated to require the AASHTO LRFD Bridge Design Specification, 8th edition. When I go to AASHTO website they sell it with a disclaimer that the code is OBSOLETE and only for the SE exam. Attached is a close to $600 price tag, for a code that is obsolete in practice. Seems like a scam to me. To make matters more insulting, they charge 5% shipping on all orders. I was wondering if anyone knew an alternate way to obtain this code? Or is there a way to get around using the newest edition? Could I use the 7th edition as long as I am aware of the changes? Any information on this topic would be GREATLY appreAttach filesciated.


----------



## E720

I just PM'd you some information.


----------



## Vin

E720 said:


> I just PM'd you some information.


Hello, I m looking for the AASHTO 8th edition as well. Is there a way i can borrow/ rent or get a second hand book? The book is expensive and I am not going to use it after the SE exam.


----------



## hilli78

E720 said:


> I just PM'd you some information.


I am also looking for the AASHTO 8th edition for the SE exam. My company doesn't do Bridges and I won't have any use of it after the exam.


----------



## Manufacturingman

When it comes to editions, you should be able to find a list of what has changed from edition to edition. Using a previous edition is usually ok. 
For example, in ASCE 7-16, the equation for calculating Design Ice Thickness changed from 7-10. In 7-10, the equations was 2.0*t*Ii*fz*(Kzt)^.35 whereas in 7-16 it became t*Ii*fz*(Kzt)^.35.
That seems like a pretty big deal. The ice map also changed. so, for Kansas City, the nominal ice thickness went from .75" (2010) to 1.5" (2016). Well, that accounts for the factor 2, so the design ice thickness stays the same except the Ice importance factor for Class 3 buildings also changed from 1.25 to 1.15.
In most areas of the US, the change didn't actually result in a different end result. Class 1, 2 and 4 buildings in probably 75% of the major metro areas didn't change. Philadelphia's nominal thickness stayed the same, so the design thickness would be cut in half. NYC's nominal went from .75 to 1.0, so the design thickness changed slightly, etc.
The point being, if you use a different edition, KNOW the changes. I will be using the 7th edition LRFD. I can't justify buying the 8th, and it's a disservice to testers to force them to buy the newer edition. I'm surprised it's consider obsolete since the 7th edition was the edition for the spring exam.



mcg7996 said:


> I am preparing to take the SE Vertical - Buildings exam this October (2021). I reviewed the required design standards and it has been updated to require the AASHTO LRFD Bridge Design Specification, 8th edition. When I go to AASHTO website they sell it with a disclaimer that the code is OBSOLETE and only for the SE exam. Attached is a close to $600 price tag, for a code that is obsolete in practice. Seems like a scam to me. To make matters more insulting, they charge 5% shipping on all orders. I was wondering if anyone knew an alternate way to obtain this code? Or is there a way to get around using the newest edition? Could I use the 7th edition as long as I am aware of the changes? Any information on this topic would be GREATLY appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 22971


----------



## thedaywa1ker

Manufacturingman said:


> When it comes to editions, you should be able to find a list of what has changed from edition to edition. Using a previous edition is usually ok.
> For example, in ASCE 7-16, the equation for calculating Design Ice Thickness changed from 7-10. In 7-10, the equations was 2.0*t*Ii*fz*(Kzt)^.35 whereas in 7-16 it became t*Ii*fz*(Kzt)^.35.
> That seems like a pretty big deal. The ice map also changed. so, for Kansas City, the nominal ice thickness went from .75" (2010) to 1.5" (2016). Well, that accounts for the factor 2, so the design ice thickness stays the same except the Ice importance factor for Class 3 buildings also changed from 1.25 to 1.15.
> In most areas of the US, the change didn't actually result in a different end result. Class 1, 2 and 4 buildings in probably 75% of the major metro areas didn't change. Philadelphia's nominal thickness stayed the same, so the design thickness would be cut in half. NYC's nominal went from .75 to 1.0, so the design thickness changed slightly, etc.
> The point being, if you use a different edition, KNOW the changes. I will be using the 7th edition LRFD. I can't justify buying the 8th, and it's a disservice to testers to force them to buy the newer edition. I'm surprised it's consider obsolete since the 7th edition was the edition for the spring exam.


My opinion is that making building engineers buy and study AASHTO in the first place is a huge disservice and waste of everyones time and money. (I'm sure bridge guys feel the same about having to learn a bunch of buildings stuff)

I have no idea what changed between AASHTO versions, but I have heard they are substantial. The wind chapters of ASCE-7 changed pretty substantially as well.

I would not recommend going into the test with old versions of codes. A few hundred bucks now, or risk another $500 exam fee and 6 months of studying plus the same few hundred bucks to get the codes you realized you actually need....plus, we are technically supposed to be using the new codes in practice, are we not?

I'd maybe risk it for the PE, personally (I didn't even bother taking AASHTO for the PE). Not for the SE.

Edit: The exam already has a 30% pass rate, why would you make it harder on yourself


----------



## reptar

E720 said:


> I just PM'd you some information.


Hi I'm also in the same boat & looking for any leads on the 8th edition if you could help.


----------



## mg93

reptar said:


> Hi I'm also in the same boat & looking for any leads on the 8th edition if you could help.


Could I get it too please ?


----------



## MOULVV

I have the PDF version of AASHTO 8th edition and it's printable.


----------



## David Connor SE

I can attest that the changes from AASHTO 7th to 8th edition were substantial. Especially wind loads on bridges. However, the wind loads are very similar to determining building wind loads now.


----------



## mg93

David, I can see that you have an entire book on the subject. Could you please tell me more about your book ? 
Thanks !


----------



## David Connor SE

mg93 said:


> David, I can see that you have an entire book on the subject. Could you please tell me more about your book ?
> Thanks !


Yep, it's a book that I wrote after I took the SE exam back in 2014. It was the book I wish I had for studying bridge problems. Being that I'm a "building" structural engineer I really needed help with bridge problems. However, at the time there was very little out there. Only a handful of problems in some PPI books and the NCEES practice exam. So I wrote this book. The entire book is 40 vertical bridge problems and 40 lateral problems, but I also split the book up for those that maybe only needed vertical or lateral problems. Each problem has detailed solutions with reference to the appropriate section to use in the AASHTO code. Many people who were studying for the SE exam have bought the book and have told me that it helped them a lot on the bridge problems. You can pick it up on Amazon by using the links on my website www.davidconnorse.com. 

Thanks!


----------



## nikkipall2

mcg7996 said:


> I am preparing to take the SE Vertical - Buildings exam this October (2021). I reviewed the required design standards and it has been updated to require the AASHTO LRFD Bridge Design Specification, 8th edition. When I go to AASHTO website they sell it with a disclaimer that the code is OBSOLETE and only for the SE exam. Attached is a close to $600 price tag, for a code that is obsolete in practice. Seems like a scam to me. To make matters more insulting, they charge 5% shipping on all orders. I was wondering if anyone knew an alternate way to obtain this code? Or is there a way to get around using the newest edition? Could I use the 7th edition as long as I am aware of the changes? Any information on this topic would be GREATLY appreAttach filesciated.
> 
> View attachment 22971


Hello!! I am in the same boat as others on this thread - taking the exam in October, but I only the 7th edition of the code. Would anyone be able to share the 8th edition? It would be very much appreciated!!


----------



## mg93

There's a similar thread and there's a link there to a drive that has it all


----------



## nikkipall2

mg93 said:


> There's a similar thread and there's a link there to a drive that has it all


Awesome! Any chance you could direct me to that specific thread? There are so many different threads on this site, it’s overwhelming!!


----------



## mg93

Sure. Tomorrow morning when I get to my computer. If I forget then please comment here and remind me again.


----------



## nikkipall2

mg93 said:


> Sure. Tomorrow morning when I get to my computer. If I forget then please comment here and remind me again.


Thank you so much!


----------



## mg93

Here



https://engineerboards.com/conversations/my-google-drive-with-all-the-new-codes.24083/#convMessage-63761


----------



## SE in the works

I'm taking the Lateral SE exam - Buildings this October and need some help finding the 8th edition of AASHTO spec. I've been told that if I have the 7th edition I just need to bring a copy of chapter 3 and it should be sufficient because most of the changes related to the morning breath of the lateral exam can be found there. Appreciate any help.


----------



## psustruct

You should work thru the NCEES sample exam and make the decision for yourself.


----------



## CalStructural

MOULVV said:


> I have the PDF version of AASHTO 8th edition and it's printable.


Any chance you could possibly email me a copy? I'm taking the exam in October as well and didnt realize until recently just how much the code has changed.


----------



## psustruct

I will send you a PM


----------



## YSA

MOULVV said:


> I have the PDF version of AASHTO 8th edition and it's printable.


how much?


----------



## Tunnelstiff

CalStructural said:


> Any chance you could possibly email me a copy? I'm taking the exam in October as well and didnt realize until recently just how much the code has changed.


Is it possible I could get a copy?


----------



## psustruct

SE in the works said:


> I'm taking the Lateral SE exam - Buildings this October and need some help finding the 8th edition of AASHTO spec. I've been told that if I have the 7th edition I just need to bring a copy of chapter 3 and it should be sufficient because most of the changes related to the morning breath of the lateral exam can be found there. Appreciate any help.


I sent you a PM.


----------



## mg93

@psustruct the MVP here !!


----------



## zavid58

psustruct said:


> I will send you a PM


Good Samaritan, would you mind if I got in on this?


----------



## d.krausz

psustruct said:


> I sent you a PM.


Can I also get in on this ?  Thank you so much!


----------



## Tfriede

MOULVV said:


> I have the PDF version of AASHTO 8th edition and it's printable.


Any chance I could get a copy of the AASHTO 8th edition?


----------



## bonniferous

If you are still sending out copies I would be so grateful! My email is [email protected]


----------



## noelrom

So do I, it would be very appreciated! My email is "[email protected]" 
Thanks!!


----------



## Keith01

I'm also looking for AASHTO 8th. Please let me know if you can help.


----------



## psustruct

Keith01 said:


> I'm also looking for AASHTO 8th. Please let me know if you can help.


Kieth01, what is your email address? send a PM if you do not want to post here.


----------



## Mr.Engineer

psustruct said:


> I will send you a PM


----------



## AC_Bridge

I got "Acceptable" for SE Vertical Bridge. Plan to take SE Lateral Bridge next October.
I am also looking for buying some standards, such as TMS 402-602 2016 and AISC Seismic Design Manual 3th Edition.
If any of you are going to sell some of your study materials or codes, please let me know.
Thank you


----------



## ATPAN

Can I get a copy please?


----------



## CFarnes

I'm talking the SE Exam this April 2022 and I am in the same boat. Can someone provide me with the links to the other thread that includes the 8th edition?


----------



## psustruct

Check your messages.


----------



## cpuri1968

E720 said:


> Hi, I am looking for pdf of AASHTO 8th ed for my SE exam. PleSe me know.


----------



## Happel09

psustruct said:


> Check your messages.


Could I get a copy as well?


----------



## dsclayson

psustruct said:


> Check your messages.


psustruct, could I get a copy of the 8th edition pdf as well? [email protected]


----------



## dacrax07

I would like a copy of the 8th edition pdf too please - [email protected]


----------



## dmtbpl6360

E720 said:


> I just PM'd you some information.


I am in the same boat regarding AASHTO LRFD Bridge Design Specifications (8th Edition). I actually cannot find it to purchase anywhere regardless of price. Can anyone help?


----------



## dmtbpl6360

Hello I cannot find a copy of AASHTO LRFD Bridge Design Specifications (8th Edition) anywhere - despite the huge cost I’m seeing here. Can anyone point me in the right direction? My firm does buildings so I’m not able to find anyone at my office who has this.


----------



## dmtbpl6360

dacrax07 said:


> I would like a copy of the 8th edition pdf too please - [email protected]


Did you ever get any help? I’m frantically trying to track this material down.


----------



## structbarz

psustruct said:


> I will send you a PM


Could I also get a copy? thanks much


----------



## Reverse Polish

Not to be *too* curmudgeonly, but I sure hope no one from AASHTO sees this thread. I don't think they'd be thrilled to see their copyright being repeatedly violated. 

In a profession that is supposed to have high ethical standards, this is discomfiting.


----------



## Ricchan

How are people printing this PDF? Isn't it 1700 pages? Or is there just a specific section that we need to print?


----------



## E720

I think in reality you probably just need part 1 which is the first 6 chapters.


----------



## Ricchan

E720 said:


> I think in reality you probably just need part 1 which is the first 6 chapters.


That is still a 1050 pages lol. Are people just standing at the printer at work and printing 1000 pages?


----------



## E720

Ricchan said:


> That is still a 1050 pages lol. Are people just standing at the printer at work and printing 1000 pages?


Well if you don't want to print a PDF then I guess your options are to either buy a copy from AASHTO or to go without it.


----------



## Ricchan

E720 said:


> Well if you don't want to print a PDF then I guess your options are to either buy a copy from AASHTO or to go without it.


I'm not saying that I don't want to print it, I'm asking about logistics. How are people efficiently printing and binding this document.


----------



## psustruct

There is probably only a handful that are not taking the entire code.


----------



## Ricchan

psustruct said:


> There is probably only a handful that are not taking the entire code.


Yeah, if I'm going to go through the trouble to print and bind it, I might as well print the whole thing. I'm just wondering now how unwieldly 1700 pages is. That's like 4 text books.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

I have mine in (2) 4-5 inch binders.


----------



## psustruct

I have 3 small binders that each have the following sections, 1-4, 5, and 6. Then on binder for the rest. And I have a Summary binder with the index and cheat sheets.


----------



## Ricchan

psustruct said:


> I have 3 small binders that each have the following sections, 1-4, 5, and 6. Then on binder for the rest. And I have a Summary binder with the index and cheat sheets.


I think I like this, since it'll be easier to use/navigate smaller binders. Thanks for the input on what you guys are using, appreciate it.


----------



## bonniferous

So I was able to print it at Office Max for educational purposes. I think it cost around $100. You could also print two pages to a sheet front and back and that would cut down on the amount of paper.


----------



## Be-n

Ricchan said:


> I'm not saying that I don't want to print it, I'm asking about logistics. How are people efficiently printing and binding this document.


I broke it down into 3 smaller binders in a way that made sense to me. First was something like analysis, loads, and maybe wood. Second was steel and concrete. Third binder had everything else.
Get prepunched paper.
Printing depends on your equipment. I used my office printer that could print on both sides by itself. Printing on a small home printer that doesn’t flip pages is a lot more time consuming.


----------



## enginmuratreis

c


----------



## amazzone817

psustruct said:


> I have 3 small binders that each have the following sections, 1-4, 5, and 6. Then on binder for the rest. And I have a Summary binder with the index and cheat sheets.


What size binders did you use?


----------



## psustruct

Use the smallest possible, because space can be limited dependent on what your transport device is.

I believe mine are 1" and 2.5", see pics.


----------



## Br_Engr

If you choose to include the entire AASHTO into a single binder, be sure to place the index in the FRONT of the binder. You do not want to have to be lifting 1700 pages to find stuff.


----------

