# Pencil marks in reference material



## nukem2k5 (Oct 16, 2016)

I read on some website that any hand-written notes in our reference material needs to be in ink, not pencil, but I can't find that anywhere in the NCEES Examinee Guidelines.  Do I have to go back through all several hundred pages of my notes and trace any hand-written comments in ink?


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## ptatohed (Oct 16, 2016)

If you scroll back, you'll find threads on this topic, discussed in length.  It has actually become a heated debate w/ many saying to Xerox, ink-over, or highlight all pencil marks.  My continued opinion and advice is to leave them alone, you'll be fine.


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## nukem2k5 (Oct 16, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> If you scroll back, you'll find threads on this topic, discussed in length.  It has actually become a heated debate w/ many saying to Xerox, ink-over, or highlight all pencil marks.  My continued opinion and advice is to leave them alone, you'll be fine.


Thanks.  Perhaps if I feel bored I'll go back and highlight, but fortunately most of my notes are printed Adobe comments.  However, certainly seems like I should photocopy the several pages of practice problem solutions that I hand-wrote.  Sorry to resurrect a dead subject.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 16, 2016)

As you review your notes during the week prior to test day, you can highlight as you go.


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## ptatohed (Oct 17, 2016)

nukem2k5 said:


> Thanks.  Perhaps if I feel bored I'll go back and highlight, but fortunately most of my notes are printed Adobe comments.  However, certainly seems like I should photocopy the several pages of practice problem solutions that I hand-wrote.  Sorry to resurrect a dead subject.


Why do you say it "certainly seems" like you should photocopy?  As previously mentioned, I recommend you don't spend any time worrying about your pencil marks.  Just leave them alone.  You'll be fine.  Spend your time studying for the exam.  Good luck.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2016)

^hopefully


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## RBHeadge PE (Oct 17, 2016)

nukem2k5 said:


> I read on some website that any hand-written notes in our reference material needs to be in ink, not pencil, but I can't find that anywhere in the NCEES Examinee Guidelines.  Do I have to go back through all several hundred pages of my notes and trace any hand-written comments in ink?


This was a problem in years past, but I don't know if it has come up recently. You should also see if there is any mention of pencil markings in the State specific rules. These would have been sent with your exam authorization as applicable. If there is still no mention in the NCEES guide or Sate specific rules, then you *should* be okay to have pencil markings in your reference materials.


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## nukem2k5 (Oct 17, 2016)

I appreciate all the feedback.  Seems like one of those "better safe than sorry" kind of things.

Anyone here know whether folders with brads are acceptable in lieu of big plastic binders?  Per the guidelines, I would think so, but just like the pencil mark issue, I wanted to check people's experience here.


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## smahurin (Oct 17, 2016)

To my knowledge (someone can correct me) it was NEVER an NCEES mandate, but there were a few isolated states that had that specific requirement (or at least thought they did).

I took all of my undergrad and grad binders full of hand written notes and I had also re-written a compilation binder of the "important" stuff from my classes.  No issue.  I wouldn't worry about it unless you can find somewhere that it explicitly says you can't.  If I couldn't have pencil marks on stuff I would have had to go in without references... I write on everything.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 17, 2016)

From the NCEES candidate agreement:

CANDIDATE AGREEMENT (CONTINUED)

• Having a device with copying, recording, or communication capabilities in your possession. These include but are not limited to cameras, pagers, PDAs, radios, headsets, tape players, calculator watches, smartwatches, electronic dictionaries, electronic translators, transmitting devices, fitness trackers, and digital media players such as iPods.

• Having a calculator that is not on the NCEES-approved list

• Using a non-NCEES writing instrument or eraser to complete any portion of the exam

• Copying from another examinee’s answer sheet or colluding with other examinees

• Beginning the exam before the proctor instructs you to do so

• Failing to stop writing immediately when time is called

*• Writing on anything other than your exam booklet or answer sheet *

Back to my original statement in all of these discussions; good luck PROVING that you did not write something in your book if it is in pencil. 

Is it worth waiting 6 months to re-take the exam???

No pencil, no problem.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> good luck PROVING that you did not write something in your book if it is in pencil.


That was my theory. I wasn't going to risk it.


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## ptatohed (Oct 17, 2016)

We've seen this argument before.  lol  We all write in our references with pencil.  Who doesn't?  I had pencil marks everywhere.  I took the CA Survey once, the 8hr twice, the CA Seismic thrwice, and the CA Survey several more times at Prometric as a "Beta" tester for the state, all with countless pencil marks, all with no problem.  There are other things to concern yourself with.


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## RBHeadge PE (Oct 17, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> Back to my original statement in all of these discussions; good luck PROVING that you did not write something in your book if it is in pencil.
> 
> Is it worth waiting 6 months to re-take the exam???
> 
> No pencil, no problem.


+1

It could be even worse. Some exams are offered only once a year.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> We've seen this argument before.  lol  We all write in our references with pencil.  Who doesn't?  I had pencil marks everywhere.  I took the CA Survey once, the 8hr twice, the CA Seismic thrwice, and the CA Survey several more times at Prometric as a "Beta" tester for the state, all with countless pencil marks, all with no problem.  There are other things to concern yourself with.


I didn't have any non highlighted pencil marks.


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## ptatohed (Oct 17, 2016)

matt267 PE said:


> I didn't have any non highlighted pencil marks.


I bet I had more non-highlighted pencil marks than you had highlighted pencil marks.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 17, 2016)

How many people wore a fit-bit without issue?

The question is what is your acceptable level of risk. The agreement does leave you any wiggle room should a proctor pull a judge dread on someone.


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## P-E (Oct 17, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> I bet I had more non-highlighted pencil marks than you had highlighted pencil marks.


Ditto


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## John QPE (Oct 18, 2016)

All I can say is this .....

If you have 300 some pages of something you want to bring, and you staple them into a neat little book and bring them to MD, they will not consider these "bound."

Put little plastic covers on said 300 pages with a binder edge, and boom ... you are bound.

Don't ask me.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 18, 2016)

Yup, no staples.


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## smahurin (Oct 18, 2016)

Ken PE 3.0 said:


> *• Writing on anything other than your exam booklet or answer sheet *
> 
> Back to my original statement in all of these discussions; good luck PROVING that you did not write something in your book if it is in pencil.
> 
> ...


I agree with people that say everyone has to evaluate the "risk" for themselves.  And there will always be a handful of overzealous proctors... but I literally brought in 10 from my college grad classes 100% filled with handwritten notes (plus an additional binder I created for studying).  If a proctor honestly thought I wrote all of that during a 4hr exam... I guess they win and I'm retaking the test.  It just seems incredibly improbable.


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## RBHeadge PE (Oct 18, 2016)

smahurin said:


> I agree with people that say everyone has to evaluate the "risk" for themselves.  And there will always be a handful of overzealous proctors... but I literally brought in 10 from my college grad classes 100% filled with handwritten notes (plus an additional binder I created for studying).  If a proctor honestly thought I wrote all of that during a 4hr exam... I guess they win and I'm retaking the test.  It just seems incredibly improbable.


It happened in Maryland in 2013.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 18, 2016)

hahaha, Maryland was the center of the FitBit issue too.


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## JGipe1 (Oct 18, 2016)

I'm taking the Exam in Maryland next week.

So if I wrote notes in pencil in my EET binders, this could be a problem?

Do 3-ring binders also need covers?


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## matt267 PE (Oct 18, 2016)

JGipe1 said:


> I'm taking the Exam in Maryland next week.
> 
> So if I wrote notes in pencil in my EET binders, this could be a problem?
> 
> Do 3-ring binders also need covers?


I would call the board. Make no assumptions.


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## JGipe1 (Oct 18, 2016)

This is from my chat with NCEES


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## ngmakhlo_PE (Oct 18, 2016)

Thank you @JGipe1 for putting that to rest once and for all! I was beginning to highlight my pencil marks as I was going through my EET binder studying so I will not be doing that moving forward.


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## ptatohed (Oct 19, 2016)

RBHeadge PE said:


> It happened in Maryland in 2013.


What happened?



JGipe1 said:


> I'm taking the Exam in Maryland next week.
> 
> So if I wrote notes in pencil in my EET binders, this could be a problem?
> 
> Do 3-ring binders also need covers?


Read this whole thread, it is not a problem. 

What do you mean by "covers"?


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## ptatohed (Oct 19, 2016)

ngmakhlo said:


> Thank you @JGipe1 for putting that to rest once and for all! I was beginning to highlight my pencil marks as I was going through my EET binder studying so I will not be doing that moving forward.


Or you could have listened to ptatohed from post #2 and not wasted any time at all highlighting.


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## RBHeadge PE (Oct 19, 2016)

JGipe1 said:


> This is from my chat with NCEES
> 
> View attachment 8721


It sounds like you're safe.

Maryland got rid of the pre-written pencil marking rule before the Oct 2014 exam.


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## ngmakhlo_PE (Oct 19, 2016)

ptatohed said:


> Or you could have listened to ptatohed from post #2 and not wasted any time at all highlighting.


I know I know :B , I have way more important things to spend my time focusing on anyway!!


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## jijir83 (Oct 23, 2016)

My first equation sheet was written entirely in pencil and that's the page I had open the most. I took the test in April in CA. The proctors didn't seem to be checking nor care. They also didn't care about a number of things that were clear rules. My understanding is that you can't be writing on anything other than your workbook during the test. But I hear people's point about overzealous proctors. Maybe highlighting or laminating is prudent.

Sent from my SURTAB-722-3G-HD-1S using Tapatalk


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