# To the consultant owners / small business people here....



## z06dustin (Dec 29, 2009)

What skills (outside of your engineering skills) would you say have been instrumental in your success? What do you wish you knew more about?

i.e. better finance/accounting, more advertising, etc.

The reason I ask is I'm getting ready for an MBA, and I'd like your input.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 29, 2009)

Relationships. If people know who you are and what you can do for them, it makes things 1000x easier to solicit work. Involvement in organizations such as ACEC (American Council of Engineering Companies) and ASCE is a great way to help establish general engineering relationships. Then I would suggest getting involved in industry specific organizations (i.e. ICSC for Retail / shopping centers, ITE and WTS for transportation, APWA for Public works, SAME for Military, etc). I would even suggest getting more involved with your current companies' clients and make sure they know who you are. I've seen it multiple times where a firm is selected more on who the project manager is instead of what company he represents. (note this is leaned more towards Civil Engineering, but should apply to electrical)

Even established mid-sized engineering firms rely heavily on those relationships.

Now the next question is, Do you want to RUN your own business, or would you rather be the head engineer in a company you own?

If you want to be the head engineer, I would suggest partnering with someone who is already business saavy. The time and cost needed to get a MBA on your own, IMO is counter-productive. You won't get your money back with an investment into an MBA. However, if the running of the business is more in line of what you're looking for, then an MBA could be helpful.


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## z06dustin (Dec 30, 2009)

Dexman1349 said:


> Now the next question is, Do you want to RUN your own business, or would you rather be the head engineer in a company you own?
> If you want to be the head engineer, I would suggest partnering with someone who is already business saavy. The time and cost needed to get a MBA on your own, IMO is counter-productive. You won't get your money back with an investment into an MBA. However, if the running of the business is more in line of what you're looking for, then an MBA could be helpful.


thx for the feeback dexman! actually, the cost of the MBA is one of the reason that i'm pursuing it. the company i currently work at pays for 75% of all tuition and books, so it's not actually that expensive for me.... i figure i might as well take advantage and get as much education as i can.


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## Road Guy (Dec 30, 2009)

I'll speak as someone who used to be a consultant and now manages all the consultants that do work for where I now work...

Good communication with your clients

Follow up like mad with clients you do have

Never have them waiting on you

Dont ask for trivial dollars in relation to small out of scope stuff.

Go out of the way to find out answers to questions that need to be answered

understand that the projects they pay you to design are to be built with their money and that even though you might be stamping them, you dont own the work, wont be paying for construction cost and the ultimate decision is that of the clients

I dont know how many consultants I have been dissapointed with since I "switched sides" who quite frankly just bitch way to much about really trivial things....

But for the MBA, I got an MBA for different reasons at the time (at that time I was looking to get out of engineering) I always looked at it as something that would come in handy down the road, but you do a lot of things that arent covered in engineering courses or through normal business development in engineering. The finance, marketing, business to business marketing, and the management accounting classes were all very well worth the money in my opinion.There is also a strong focus on public speaking, making presentations, which I was shocked out how many people are scared to death to get up in front of a small group and give a routine presentation...


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## chaosiscash (Dec 30, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> I'll speak as someone who used to be a consultant and now manages all the consultants that do work for where I now work...
> Dont ask for trivial dollars in relation to small out of scope stuff.


I've been on both sides of this, but in the other order. I used to work for an M&amp;O contractor (feds) and now I work for a sub.

I agree in principle with what you're saying, the problem is that its a slippery slope. If you give them (the client) one thing for free, then they start to expect it. And all those "small out of scope" things can start to add up over a big project. It all works out fine as long as there is a good working relationship between the client and sub, but quite frankly that's not always the case.


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## z06dustin (Dec 30, 2009)

Sorry, but are you two both talking about scope-creep from the client making more work which wasn't initially defined, or are you talking about something that legitimately wasn't seen at the beginnig of the job which the contractor just needs to deal with and not bother with readjusting the dollars and scope?


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## Road Guy (Dec 30, 2009)

most consultants miss so many things in developing the plans that they get paid and dont correct I dont have a problem expecting them to do minor things for no cost. we had the EPD go through all of our projects with a fine tooth comb recently and some consultants balked at making minor changes that the EPD requested that were deficiencies on the consultants part, and some tend to always say.. _well your guys reviewed them_ the good ones recognize they should have caught that before sending it out and fix it pronto and with minimal complaints..


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## Flyer_PE (Dec 30, 2009)

I posted this in a similar discussion a while back. The best defense I've found for both sides of the fence is the project journal.

Journal Requirements


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## benbo (Dec 30, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> There is also a strong focus on public speaking, making presentations, which I was shocked out how many people are scared to death to get up in front of a small group and give a routine presentation...


I've always worked for somebody else, but to me this was the most valuable part of business school. I was never nervous giving presentations in front of small groups, but anything over 40 people made me a little nervous. We had to give presentations constantly. I really improved my communications skills.

Probably the most interesting things I learned about were how accounting works, and what makes up good marketing. Both completely useless to me, but I imagine strategies for getting, keeping, and growing business, which is basically what marketing is, would be valuable to a small business owner..


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## z06dustin (Dec 30, 2009)

Flyer_PE said:


> I posted this in a similar discussion a while back. The best defense I've found for both sides of the fence is the project journal.
> Journal Requirements


I like this, thx flyer.


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## Kephart P.E. (Dec 30, 2009)

+1 on the personnal relationships.

Most of the new clients we get that Marketing finds are not usually great clients. They usually come into the projects assuming you are against them and are trying to weasel money out of them.

On the other hand we have clients that have great relationships with my boss (one of the owners) and while I don't see eye to eye with all their employees, I would bend over backwards to help them because these clients understand the bottom line.

As for being able to fix small mistakes, without change orders yes you have to, this stuff isn't easy especially when each project is unique, and you will not catch everything, but on the other hand certain clients want it all and don't want to give up much. My suggestion is never to send in a change order for 1 or 2 or even a dozen small things, but DO record them and with an apporximate amount of hours to do each. Then if something comes along that is worth a change order you have some ammunition when the client pushes back.

Also always be aware of change orders the other way. Sometimes when a project changes some engineering work is eliminated you need to show your clients you see things from their side as well.

Basically I have found that if I try and think of the client/project first and not how many hours can I bill we end up in a much better place.


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## Road Guy (Dec 30, 2009)

I try and juggle things as a _two way street_


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## chaosiscash (Dec 30, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> most consultants miss so many things in developing the plans that they get paid and dont correct I dont have a problem expecting them to do minor things for no cost.


and most clients can't write a tight scope to save their lives.

See, I can generalize too. 

All I'm saying is that you have to have really good communication between the two for everybody to be semi-happy. Otherwise you'll end up in court.


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## Road Guy (Dec 30, 2009)

were not most clients


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