# SE Exam Oct 2019 Result



## Sheik

Hi,

Do you have any idea when we will get to know the results?

The registration for April 2020 begins on dec 9th so may be we will get it on Dec 6th (Friday).


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## Duke

Results will likely drop sometime in the second half of December, very unlikely before the 9th, but well before the registration deadline.

(Also FYI this thread may get nuked, the last one did with no reason given)


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Duke said:


> (Also FYI this thread may get nuked, the last one did with no reason given)


I wonder what happened and who’s in trouble. The mods are hypersensitive around test time due to previous incidents though.


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## Titleistguy

Someone probably leaked problem info whether intentionally or not.  I can see that being an issue.


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## kevo_55

It wasn't me.


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## Hindianapolis

Honestly we need a union to negotiate on our behalf....we also need representation during official workshops and meetings...

What should we call it?


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Hindianapolis said:


> Honestly we need a union to negotiate on our behalf....we also need representation during official workshops and meetings...
> 
> What should we call it?


Associated

Structural

Services

For

Assisting

Civil

Examinees

or ASSFACE for short.


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## Hindianapolis

LOL


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## mikesltj23

Ugh, I'm going to feel like a real ASSFACE if I don't pass Lateral this time around.  Been 3 years since my last try....win or lose, I'm done!  Which is a nice feeling lol.


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## Hindianapolis

we need ASSFACE for sure....Our demands should be something like this:

1- We need a voice to represent us: doesnt have to be an examinee but someone we trust....say for example @David Connor, SE

2- We need to know what is happening  during the exam writing workshops

3- We need to see psychiatric assessment of the subject matter experts writing the questions

4- We demand reforms to the way the exam is corrected: if someone scores AAAA in the afternoon that should be an immediate pass


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## Titleistguy

I'd like to see the afternoon be four two hour problems given, yet the the engineer selects 2 only.  If the afternoon is meant to check engineering judgement / process and so forth then they're much likely to see that if a person was working with a material they liked.  And bc of it being two hours there's no reason why NCEES still can't work other material related items into a question,  but in general a question should clearly skew one direction.  So everyone gets to pick their best two materials but write them in such a way that any two questions hits all four major materials.


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## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> I'd like to see the afternoon be four two hour problems given, yet the the engineer selects 2 only.  If the afternoon is meant to check engineering judgement / process and so forth then they're much likely to see that if a person was working with a material they liked.  And bc of it being two hours there's no reason why NCEES still can't work other material related items into a question,  but in general a question should clearly skew one direction.  So everyone gets to pick their best two materials but write them in such a way that any two questions hits all four major materials.


That would certainly make things interesting. As someone told me, the exam used to be a "pick the problems you want to solve" format for the afternoon.

What's even more fascinating is that the exam itself requires a level of alacrity in problem solving that is unrealistic.


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## Nathan55

Hindianapolis said:


> 1- We need a voice to represent us: doesnt have to be an examinee but someone we trust....say for example @David Connor, SE
> 
> 2- We need to know what is happening  during the exam writing workshops
> 
> 3- We need to see psychiatric assessment of the subject matter experts writing the questions
> 
> 4- We demand reforms to the way the exam is corrected: if someone scores AAAA in the afternoon that should be an immediate pass


I think what you really need is a disinformation campaign here on the forums coupled with a well placed mole in NCEES to advocate for change. Either that or become a lawyer since the pay is better and the bar is easier to pass.


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## Titleistguy

The pay isn't necessarily better.  I know plenty of lawyers that make less than us.


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## Edub24

Sheik said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you have any idea when we will get to know the results?
> 
> The registration for April 2020 begins on dec 9th so may be we will get it on Dec 6th (Friday).


Last year the scoring session was a week after Thanksgiving 11/29-12/1. Assuming it's the same this year then the grading will be 12/5-12/7. Results are typically released 7-10 days after the grading session so my money is on mid-December around 12/16.


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## Stardust

mikesltj23 said:


> Ugh, I'm going to feel like a real ASSFACE if I don't pass Lateral this time around.  Been 3 years since my last try....win or lose, I'm done!  Which is a nice feeling lol.


Did you pass Vertical? If so, you still have a good year and a half left to try assuming you didn't nail it this time!


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## Stewie

Titleistguy said:


> Someone probably leaked problem info whether intentionally or not.  I can see that being an issue.


Who did?


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Stewie said:


> Who did?


Nobody did. They make those comments every administration due to some idiot listing a problem in its entirety on here a few years ago. NCEES doesn’t like you talking period, though. They want you in a vacuum of ignorance on problem types and methodology despite your entire education being geared toward exams. My best recommendation to all of you is to apply for appointment for your respective boards and fix this shit. The exam should be hard and you shouldn’t know exactly what is on it, but sharing content and even seeing your exam after grading shouldn’t be an issue. Think about this,  as structural engineers, how often do you do something groundbreaking? Practically never. When you do, it ends up going through tons of red tape and a patent process. I honestly think that exposing the types of problems and the potential pitfalls and solutions would make better engineers all the way around. I’ve never agreed with the level of secrecy presented, but like I said, change it from the inside.


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## Titleistguy

ChaosMuppetPe - I like your points.  From folks I've spoken with, 'that are on the inside', there is a mentality with some that the SE should be harder, its almost like the whole "I had to pay my dues thing" and people wanting to protect their status.  Because I'm fairly certain the NCEES solicits information from new and existing SE's on question ideas.  So the irony here is that no matter how much we all grumble about the process and ambiguity and so on, its quite possibly us doing this to ourselves.  Think about this, if you go thorough this process, as is, pass the tests, and get your SE, how would you feel about making it easier for people behind you? Be honest with yourself, you don't have to report on here, but would you really want it to be easier for other people?  That's a tough question if people are actually being honest with themselves.  Do you want it to be easier for people that would be competing for the same jobs, and essentially diluting the pool of existing SE's by increasing the supply, while not changing the demand ... we all know what that would mean, value goes down. 

I believe a compelling argument can be made to the converse, that demand is in fact going up, and supply is remaining static / decreasing, because more states are requiring an SE, and based on the number of folks sitting for the test, divided by the number of states requiring it, you could argue that the average # of new SE's per state is going down.  So there is a really good argument not for necessarily making the test 'easier' per se, but enough with the games.  I met someone this weekend that described to me a very good point, and that was a scenario where there would eventually be a short fall of SE's if enough states require it, and not enough people can pass the test.  That's a scary scenario, and it doesn't have an easy solution. Because I don't think the test should be easier --  I like that the test is challenging, I like that it takes hard work, and that's why the accomplishment will (eventually) mean so much -- but if high quality engineers and judgment is the goal, then NCEES would be more transparent with their results and outputs.  I'm sure we can take 10 people that fail this test, and find 10 different reasons why, and individually each of those people may be very expert at several things and possibly just coming up a bit short in one or two areas -- and it would certainly be nice to get detailed output to that effect so people would know what they need to work on.


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## Duke

IMO how we feel about it should be irrelevant. This is a competency exam and really the only metric that should be considered is how accurately does it test for competency. In its current state I don't think a single incompetent engineer passes, but I do think may competent engineers walk out of there down $1000-$500 (not including the thousands many spend on courses, study books and codes), and with their career delayed by another 6 months.

Would be SE's and their families invest hugely in trying to become licencsed, but all you get after the exam is either a "Pass" or sheet that may basically tell you "You sucked at X subject this time around", see ya in 6 months. This does not seem like an organization who's motto is "advancing licensure for engineers and surveyors" But this is the reality we are stuck with.. so lets suck it up and get through it.

My one rant this time around.....


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## Sheik

Edub24 said:


> Last year the scoring session was a week after Thanksgiving 11/29-12/1. Assuming it's the same this year then the grading will be 12/5-12/7. Results are typically released 7-10 days after the grading session so my money is on mid-December around 12/16.


I was thinking that they should release the result before the registration for April begins.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Well, I at least feel like the last exam was more representative of the types of projects I generally work on. I was happy with that. 

@Titleistguy, you are absolutely right about the elitist mentality of those passing the exam but the exam wasn’t needed to begin with for most of the country. I could make an argument for a few situations, but for the most part, boards accepting this exam as the ONLY means of licensure are either ignorant, assholes, or both. 

If I manage to get an appointment, I’m going to push HARD for rejecting new harder exams without first passing it themselves. Basically, removing grandfathering. If the industry needs an exam change due to safety or changing technology, then everyone should have to pass the fucker. More than my two cents, that’s worth 20 bucks there.


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## BuzzKillington

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Basically, removing grandfathering. If the industry needs an exam change due to safety or changing technology, then everyone should have to pass the fucker.


This!! 100% behind this idea of removing grandfathering. First step would be to recognize the damn thing. My state (Georgia) requires all structural candidates to take the 16-hr exam, while they don't even recognize them with the SE title. The current system is annoyingly stupid.


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## User1

i think if they organized it like they would a project:

like materials together in the morning especially

information presented in one place like normal people 

then it wouldn't be as much as a crunch for time shitshow and would solve 98% of the issues i have with this exam.


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## User1

it's fucking ridiculous that they INTENTIONALLY force you to be disorganized in your approach to things. like make me spend time organizing the questions but still ending up having to switch back to references/binders. jerks.


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## David Connor SE

tj_PE said:


> i think if they organized it like they would a project:
> 
> like materials together in the morning especially
> 
> information presented in one place like normal people
> 
> then it wouldn't be as much as a crunch for time shitshow and would solve 98% of the issues i have with this exam.


I agree with this for the morning. The time it takes just to physically move from 1 code to the next would probably add up to someone having enough time to work an extra question or 2.  Shouldn't have to be that way. 

As far as making the exam "easier", I'm not sure that's the best approach, speaking as someone who has already passed it.  But make the exam more about engineering as opposed to a race against the clock should be there focus.  Maybe when they make the switch to a computer based exam this will be the case. 

I'm hopeful that the pass rates this time around will be better.  Comments I have seen so far seem to show that the exam wasn't so far "out there" this time around. 

I'm going to recuse myself from being the ASSFACE spokesperson though.


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## mikesltj23

Stardust said:


> Did you pass Vertical? If so, you still have a good year and a half left to try assuming you didn't nail it this time!


I passed Vertical in Oct 2014 and failed lateral at the same time.  Of course I walked out of there thinking, I really hope I passed both or failed both so I never have to take it again.  Took Lateral again Oct 2015 with twin 10 month olds at home, so that was a disaster.  3 years later, decided I'd kick myself if I didn't give it one final try lol.  So this was literally the last try I have before it expires!  (And I emailed NCEES to confirm that it's the exam date that matters, so passing Oct 2014 means that Oct 2019 is the last try for the lateral...I'm sure not many people are in my situation with that).


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## Stewie

mikesltj23 said:


> I passed Vertical in Oct 2014 and failed lateral at the same time.  Of course I walked out of there thinking, I really hope I passed both or failed both so I never have to take it again.  Took Lateral again Oct 2015 with twin 10 month olds at home, so that was a disaster.  3 years later, decided I'd kick myself if I didn't give it one final try lol.  So this was literally the last try I have before it expires!  (And I emailed NCEES to confirm that it's the exam date that matters, so passing Oct 2014 means that Oct 2019 is the last try for the lateral...I'm sure not many people are in my situation with that).


Good luck, Mike! You shall pass~


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## Titleistguy

mikesltj23 said:


> I passed Vertical in Oct 2014 and failed lateral at the same time.  Of course I walked out of there thinking, I really hope I passed both or failed both so I never have to take it again.  Took Lateral again Oct 2015 with twin 10 month olds at home, so that was a disaster.  3 years later, decided I'd kick myself if I didn't give it one final try lol.  So this was literally the last try I have before it expires!  (And I emailed NCEES to confirm that it's the exam date that matters, so passing Oct 2014 means that Oct 2019 is the last try for the lateral...I'm sure not many people are in my situation with that).


Likewise I hope you passed !


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## mikesltj23

Thanks, guys!!  Luckily, I work mostly in NJ and NY, so not a huge loss for me if I don't.  Not talking specifics, but other than falling short on time and having to write down what I would do instead of doing it on one question, I feel good about it.  It's that last Unacceptable / Improvement Required that has me nervous!


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## Titleistguy

mikesltj23 said:


> Thanks, guys!!  Luckily, I work mostly in NJ and NY, so not a huge loss for me if I don't.  Not talking specifics, but other than falling short on time and having to write down what I would do instead of doing it on one question, I feel good about it.  It's that last Unacceptable / Improvement Required that has me nervous!


That's where I'm at too man.  Feel like on both PM portions 3/4 I'll get high needs or acceptable.  But for 1/4 on each I'm worried about a dreaded unnaccptable.  #fingercrossed


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## mikesltj23

Titleistguy said:


> That's where I'm at too man.  Feel like on both PM portions 3/4 I'll get high needs or acceptable.  But for 1/4 on each I'm worried about a dreaded unnaccptable.  #fingercrossed


Best of luck, Titleistguy!


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## Stardust

mikesltj23 said:


> Thanks, guys!!  Luckily, I work mostly in NJ and NY, so not a huge loss for me if I don't.  Not talking specifics, but other than falling short on time and having to write down what I would do instead of doing it on one question, I feel good about it.  It's that last Unacceptable / Improvement Required that has me nervous!


I think you are in a good position. Either way it turns out you are at peace to move on  

I'm rooting for you of course!


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## leggo PE

I hope you all become SE's this round! Or pass whichever of the two tests you took. It will give me hope for when I take it in 1-1.5 years.


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## leggo PE

Just confirmed, 1.5 years. The darned (presumed) filing date is approximately 3 weeks before I will gather three years of work as a licensed P.E. next year. Spring 2021, that'll be my time.

Anyway, that's a personal problem, haha.


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## Titleistguy

Leggo you may be in the last round of paper exams .... Maybe at that point consider just waiting for the transition to computer.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

BuzzKillington said:


> This!! 100% behind this idea of removing grandfathering. First step would be to recognize the damn thing. My state (Georgia) requires all structural candidates to take the 16-hr exam, while they don't even recognize them with the SE title. The current system is annoyingly stupid.


Right there with you in GA. I will be seeking an appointment to the GA board upon passing the SE lateral. As I said, I will push hard to remove grandfathering of previous exams and to recognize the SE as well as the Civil/Structural PE with standard restrictions. I agree that it doesn't make sense to only accept the 16 hour SE without recognizing it separately.  I think I have a small chance at attaining the appointment with a few big names providing references for me. The intent to remove grandfathering isn't to punish already licensed engineers, but it is to keep the field from artificially determining who is capable of being licensed. I'm tired of previous generations screwing the following ones. First, it was retirement pensions. Then, it was lower pay to pay for those pensions and they ruined social security. I'll be damned if I'm going to just let this happen to engineering licensure. (I am convinced Georgia did this to limit competition as no current member has passed this exam and I don't know of any major engineering failure within my lifetime.)

If I achieve my goal, you will never see random test acceptance to remove competition again. I will put all of the practicing engineers and young examinees on a equal playing field. By doing this, if there is a legitimate reason for a new exam such as a change in technology or an issue with public safety, everyone will be required to prove their competency and not just punish new entrants.


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## User1

all this talk of not grandfathering - are you saying you want this to not be the last exam you have to take? just logically speaking what are the goals with that? Sorry, I may still be in a brain fog and not following.


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## Nathan55

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Right there with you in GA. I will be seeking an appointment to the GA board upon passing the SE lateral. As I said, I will push hard to remove grandfathering of previous exams and to recognize the SE as well as the Civil/Structural PE with standard restrictions. I agree that it doesn't make sense to only accept the 16 hour SE without recognizing it separately.  I think I have a small chance at attaining the appointment with a few big names providing references for me. The intent to remove grandfathering isn't to punish already licensed engineers, but it is to keep the field from artificially determining who is capable of being licensed. I'm tired of previous generations screwing the following ones. First, it was retirement pensions. Then, it was lower pay to pay for those pensions and they ruined social security. I'll be damned if I'm going to just let this happen to engineering licensure. (I am convinced Georgia did this to limit competition as no current member has passed this exam and I don't know of any major engineering failure within my lifetime.)
> 
> If I achieve my goal, you will never see random test acceptance to remove competition again. I will put all of the practicing engineers and young examinees on a equal playing field. By doing this, if there is a legitimate reason for a new exam such as a change in technology or an issue with public safety, everyone will be required to prove their competency and not just punish new entrants.


I thoroughly agree that an SE should be able to pass each administration of the test. As in....they pay licensed SEs to take the test in the time provided, and that is how the passing score is set. It's interesting that the exam is graded, not by other SEs necessarily, but by subject matter experts in that field. So you need to perform at subject matter expert level in each afternoon problem in order to get an acceptable.


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## Nathan55

David Connor said:


> As far as making the exam "easier", I'm not sure that's the best approach, speaking as someone who has already passed it.  But make the exam more about engineering as opposed to a race against the clock should be there focus.  Maybe when they make the switch to a computer based exam this will be the case.


Wow David. That hurt my soul more than the last time I saw "did not demonstrate the knowledge required to achieve minimum competency".

Actually, I'm ok with the exam being hard. Maybe even harder. What is intriguing is how opaque the afternoon grading process is. Not only does NCESS not reveal what your grade is in any meaningful way, they don't allow you to see how the test is graded. That, in my mind, is the secret to the exam. It's why NCEES so closely guards that process and the passing score. You could assume that 70% for the morning is good enough, but for the afternoon, NCEES is terrified of test takers knowing anything helpful.


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## mikesltj23

Stardust said:


> I think you are in a good position. Either way it turns out you are at peace to move on
> 
> I'm rooting for you of course!


Thanks, Stardust!


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## leggo PE

Titleistguy said:


> Leggo you may be in the last round of paper exams .... Maybe at that point consider just waiting for the transition to computer.


Nah, I looked up the schedule for conversion yesterday, and the SE isn't getting converted until some time in 2024... I wouldn't want to wait three more years.


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## Titleistguy

Not sure I'm a fan of ending godfathering for the same reasons we don't make doctors retake boards, lawyers retake the bar and so on.  We have continuing education requirements and other ways to make sure the playing field stays somewhat level.  And frankly I'm ok with the subject matter experts determining the competency requirement as opposed to the practicing professionals....who with all due respect likely go back to their one or two silos of comfort zone and never look back at all the other stuff on the test.

Should we all retake college classes if ABET ever decided to tweak the engineering programs at all of our respective colleges?  You see where this is going.  Should we have to retake our driver's test if the state driving laws change?  

Things like minimum competency are a function of the industry standard and requirements therof at the time said competency was proven.  You can't retroactively declare someone not competent in a field if they've already met that fields requirements.  Now I'll qualify this by saying you can't do this without good reason.  Now say you get sued for negligence and lose your licence or something that's different.

Yes it absolutely sucks that it's seems like the bar is getting higher and people are getting boned by test requirements but there is no reasonable way to retroactively requalify an entire class of people bc were angry the test is hard.  But I don't see it as previous generations screwing younger ones ... I see it more like... hey we know more now and therefore codes have become more complex then they once were...

Maybe 100 years ago an SE only needed to know that moments seem to redistribute but wasn't required to know how, then Hardy Cross said hold my beer ....and now we all have to know moment distribution.  (Obviously a made up example).  But you get the point.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

David Connor said:


> I agree with this for the morning. The time it takes just to physically move from 1 code to the next would probably add up to someone having enough time to work an extra question or 2.  Shouldn't have to be that way.
> 
> As far as making the exam "easier", I'm not sure that's the best approach, speaking as someone who has already passed it.  But make the exam more about engineering as opposed to a race against the clock should be there focus.  Maybe when they make the switch to a computer based exam this will be the case.
> 
> I'm hopeful that the pass rates this time around will be better.  Comments I have seen so far seem to show that the exam wasn't so far "out there" this time around.
> 
> I'm going to recuse myself from being the ASSFACE spokesperson though.


As a multiple lateral taker, I do not want the exam to be easier. I don't think anyone necessarily wants it to be "easier." I do believe that almost everyone believes bridge design is a separate field than building design and neither should be included in either fields exam. I know I had never opened an AASHTO prior to these exams. What I want, from the bottom of my heart, is for the our licensure examination (be that PE or SE) to be representative of the work done so that engineers aren't held back their career due to superfluous information that has no practical use in their specific practice.  Maybe the exam should be broken into additional components to include: Gravity and Incidental lateral, vibrational analysis and rhythmic excitation, wind design, low seismic analysis, and high seismic analysis and computer methods.

I am also quite disappointed you have rejected the honorable and esteemed position of ASSFACE representative. SHAME!


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## Titleistguy

The AASHTO stuff is certainly annoying for building folks but in a way it's a necessary evil.  We have to take transportation, and environmental and geotechnical to get a civil engineering degree despite only practicing Structural correct?  Couldn't someone argue the same goes for an SE?  I'll certainly never open AASHTO again after the last morning bridge question of the last test that finally gets me over this hump but so be it.  I haven't opened my environmental book in 18 years either.  But I'm probably in some small way a better Engineer for having taken that class just like we'll all be better SEs for having to learn our ways around a new code.  I don't like the bridge stuff but it's part of the structural umbrella like it or not ... In fact most non engineers when I say I'm a structural engineer the first thing they say is ...oh wow cool like bridges and stuff?  To which I politely laugh and say well more of the and stuff but yea.   

I think bridge stuff is annoying but how hard is it really?  In AASHTOs own way there is a certain elegance to having one self contained document that pretty much covers everything... Unlike the NDS ... Lol.  

I could go on.  A classically trained chef who makes American style food for a living still had to learn French cooking at some point... And they're better for it.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> Not sure I'm a fan of ending godfathering for the same reasons we don't make doctors retake boards, lawyers retake the bar and so on.  We have continuing education requirements and other ways to make sure the playing field stays somewhat level.  And frankly I'm ok with the subject matter experts determining the competency requirement as opposed to the practicing professionals....who with all due respect likely go back to their one or two silos of comfort zone and never look back at all the other stuff on the test.
> 
> Should we all retake college classes if ABET ever decided to tweak the engineering programs at all of our respective colleges?  You see where this is going.  Should we have to retake our driver's test if the state driving laws change?
> 
> Things like minimum competency are a function of the industry standard and requirements therof at the time said competency was proven.  You can't retroactively declare someone not competent in a field if they've already met that fields requirements.  Now I'll qualify this by saying you can't do this without good reason.  Now say you get sued for negligence and lose your licence or something that's different.
> 
> Yes it absolutely sucks that it's seems like the bar is getting higher and people are getting boned by test requirements but there is no reasonable way to retroactively requalify an entire class of people bc were angry the test is hard.  But I don't see it as previous generations screwing younger ones ... I see it more like... hey we know more now and therefore codes have become more complex then they once were...
> 
> Maybe 100 years ago an SE only needed to know that moments seem to redistribute but wasn't required to know how, then Hardy Cross said hold my beer ....and now we all have to know moment distribution.  (Obviously a made up example).  But you get the point.


That's not the point. The point is engineering boards are applying more difficult requirements to new licensees. If the requirements are higher for some than others, please explain to me how in the Holy Fuck that is fair? It's like I'm in the military again and some girl does 44 pushups and scores 100, yet I do 80 and get a 97 then she gets promoted over me because her "qualifying scores" are higher regardless of the fact that I am clearly more capable... GRRRR!

I'll say it again, if there are legitimate changes that need to be made for technology or safety's sake, then everyone should have to prove competency in those areas or they should no longer be practicing. I wouldn't want a surgeon cutting in my brain with experimental techniques he had never proven competency in and neither would you. Regulations along these guidelines are the only way to keep assholes from artificially limiting the industry licensees by requiring higher/more difficult qualifications. It would be a better system all the way around because changes would only be made when they are actually NEEDED, not when Captain Asshole wants to make more money at others expense.


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## bigirishman

Titleistguy said:


> Not sure I'm a fan of ending godfathering for the same reasons we don't make doctors retake boards, lawyers retake the bar and so on.


Doctors are required retake boards every 7-10 years depending on the state.  Specialist have to get re certified every 2-3 years.  Not suggesting that's the best path for engineers, but makes sense in a field like medicine that changes drastically (and has huge consequences for being out of step).

Personally I've always viewed these tests as NCEES testing your ability to learn (or relearn) things in a short time period and be able to regurgitate it on an exam.  Engineering in my experience places a massive emphases on learning throughout your career.  So in prepping for the SE I needed to learn a lot about lateral building design, despite spending my entire career (and likely the rest of my career) in the bridge world.  Was it important?  Not for my day-to-day.  Heck the joke about the bridge lateral is most of the states that require the SE require displacement based seismic design anyway, so the entire afternoon isn't even all that applicable.  But the ability to learn that stuff and prove you've learned it?  That's the important part.  I've been thrown a bunch of wacky stuff in my career, and being able to dig out the books and look for research was what really made the difference.  Sticking in your wheelhouse?  That's easy, show me you can adapt.


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## Titleistguy

bigirishman said:


> Doctors are required retake boards every 7-10 years depending on the state.  Specialist have to get re certified every 2-3 years.  Not suggesting that's the best path for engineers, but makes sense in a field like medicine that changes drastically (and has huge consequences for being out of step).
> 
> Personally I've always viewed these tests as NCEES testing your ability to learn (or relearn) things in a short time period and be able to regurgitate it on an exam.  Engineering in my experience places a massive emphases on learning throughout your career.  So in prepping for the SE I needed to learn a lot about lateral building design, despite spending my entire career (and likely the rest of my career) in the bridge world.  Was it important?  Not for my day-to-day.  Heck the joke about the bridge lateral is most of the states that require the SE require displacement based seismic design anyway, so the entire afternoon isn't even all that applicable.  But the ability to learn that stuff and prove you've learned it?  That's the important part.  I've been thrown a bunch of wacky stuff in my career, and being able to dig out the books and look for research was what really made the difference.  Sticking in your wheelhouse?  That's easy, show me you can adapt.


Which is my whole point in this thread ... Basically the test is in part forces us to become familiar with certain aspects that aren't in our regular work and I'm cool with that.  Some folks here don't seem to be.  

As far as doctors and retaking boards ... That's good to know but my point still stands.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> The AASHTO stuff is certainly annoying for building folks but in a way it's a necessary evil.  We have to take transportation, and environmental and geotechnical to get a civil engineering degree despite only practicing Structural correct?  Couldn't someone argue the same goes for an SE?  I'll certainly never open AASHTO again after the last morning bridge question of the last test that finally gets me over this hump but so be it.  I haven't opened my environmental book in 18 years either.  But I'm probably in some small way a better Engineer for having taken that class just like we'll all be better SEs for having to learn our ways around a new code.  I don't like the bridge stuff but it's part of the structural umbrella like it or not ... In fact most non engineers when I say I'm a structural engineer the first thing they say is ...oh wow cool like bridges and stuff?  To which I politely laugh and say well more of the and stuff but yea.
> 
> I think bridge stuff is annoying but how hard is it really?  In AASHTOs own way there is a certain elegance to having one self contained document that pretty much covers everything... Unlike the NDS ... Lol.
> 
> I could go on.  A classically trained chef who makes American style food for a living still had to learn French cooking at some point... And they're better for it.


You are speaking from an entirely different side of things than I am. Ask me how many vertical curves I've designed and I'll tell you zero every time from now until infinity. Absolutely useless material for me. Yeah, we had to take all of that in college, great. Same for AASHTO. Now let me make my point about GA again, because I really don't care about other states. GA is the focus of 120% of my current hatred. All the courses we were educated on in college are on the PE exam, yet the GA board in their infinitesimal wisdom completely disregards that exam now. I'll give you a good analogy (they are fun and I like them). As a driver of a standard vehicle weighing less than say 15000 lbs, you only need a regular Class C drivers license. Now lets say El Senor Assholio gets elected as governor and passes a bill stating "Everyone under the age of 40 must now have a Commercial Driver's License (CDL) to drive any vehicle (even bicycles are considered vehicles)." As an aside, the sole reason Mr. Assholio did this was because he didn't like traffic. Now people who were perfectly fine above average drivers can no longer drive to work. Worse yet, many poor individuals don't know anything about the commercial driver's license exam and they have literally nobody to ask as all of their coworkers and friends only had Class C licenses. Sure there are some truck and bus drivers out there that know the material and can teach you for a few thousand bucks, but finding the time and money while raising a family and working your ass off is a stretch on the budget and the sanity. Anyway, you decide to just man up and study for the exam so you get on the DOT website and order a practice test and bust your ass studying it. You walk into the exam thinking "It's on like Donkey Kong." You open the exam up and NONE of the problems are even vaguely familiar to the practice exam that you purchased from the organization offering the exam. Further, several of the questions are obtusely worded so that you would swear some of them have multiple correct answers. You walk out knowing you failed. You are now uberpissed. You want to go punch Mr. Assholio right smack in the daddy button. You finally calm down and decide to wait for the exam results as you tell yourself, "I'll see where I need to improve and try this again!" Some semblance of your pride, self reliance, and happiness returns after this realization. You wait three months for the results to come back while eagerly anticipating the diagnostic report. When the diagnostic report returns, it says you made a 23/40 and gives you some shitty bar chart saying you need to study commercial driving more. You look at it the diagnostic report and think "WTH." What part of "commercial driving" do I need to study. Is it turning? Is it lane changes? Is it street signs or hazardous materials? You start to think about how you've driven for 20+ years just fine and don't use any of this shit. Why would you, you've never driven a damn 18 wheeler or bus in your life and never intend to. Hatred and bitterness for Mr. Assholio begins to eat away at you from the inside like a worm in an apple. You check back on the DOT's website to register for the next administration of the exam. They state that all of their regulatory requirement booklets and papers are going to update for the next test. They cost another $2000.00 for them and another $500.00 just to sit for the test. About this time, you get hired to be a "ride along" in Mr. Assholio's car as sometimes he needs a mechanic and you happen to know a little about that. You start watching Mr. Assholio and realize he's a really shit driver but exempted himself from the CDL requirement. The injustice drains down your throat like a sinus infection, gagging you into disgust and sickness.

This is pretty much my experience. Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't. Either way, I think the SE exam is bullshit for at least 43 of the 50 states and it certainly shouldn't be required in states that do NOT have high seismic design. FTW. Anarchy and Chaos shall reign supreme.


----------



## Duke

Wow, that was a "ride", well done.


----------



## Titleistguy

Well. Ok.  That's one way to feel about the whole thing.  Can't say I completely understand everyone's plight as I'm only familiar with my states laws and practices.  

I know this, I thought the test was somewhere between fair and hard.  And the parts that were hard I don't blame the test ...  or the NCEES ... Or the writers or the industry or the laws in my state ... no, instead, I just look in the mirror and say what do I need to be better at. 

So what if a question is worded vaguely,  here's the solution, be stronger on everything else so that if you guess and are wrong on a vague question then it won't hurt you.   And let the process work .... If a question is in fact poorly written or whatever then the NCEES will drop it or allow multiple correct answers.  If they don't do that then maybe the problem isn't the question.

I'm not sure why people are shocked when an actual test is harder than the practice sent.  I think back to the kids in class I'd see in undergrad that badger the professor for the actual questions on a test.... Whats with the spoon-feeding?  It's a test, by definition you'll be tested.  It's not a "did you remember the exact versions of these questions but with different numbers exercise".

I hope for the best for everyone here bc I know how hard we all worked and we've all sacrificed and suffered... Some probably more than others , which may not be fair but, I'm sorry to say, life isn't fair, processes aren't perfect, and sometimes good work and good faith goes unrewarded.  But you can either feel sorry for yourself and get mad and all that ... Or you can simply take a breath and give it another shot.  And if you miss your window, or never manage to pass ... I say to you there is absolutely ZERO shame in not passing this test. If you gave it your best shot and came up short that's ok, you're still a better Engineer for it.


----------



## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> Well. Ok.  That's one way to feel about the whole thing.  Can't say I completely understand everyone's plight as I'm only familiar with my states laws and practices.
> 
> I know this, I thought the test was somewhere between fair and hard.  And the parts that were hard I don't blame the test ...  or the NCEES ... Or the writers or the industry or the laws in my state ... no, instead, I just look in the mirror and say what do I need to be better at.
> 
> So what if a question is worded vaguely,  here's the solution, be stronger on everything else so that if you guess and are wrong on a vague question then it won't hurt you.   And let the process work .... If a question is in fact poorly written or whatever then the NCEES will drop it or allow multiple correct answers.  If they don't do that then maybe the problem isn't the question.
> 
> I'm not sure why people are shocked when an actual test is harder than the practice sent.  I think back to the kids in class I'd see in undergrad that badger the professor for the actual questions on a test.... Whats with the spoon-feeding?  It's a test, by definition you'll be tested.  It's not a "did you remember the exact versions of these questions but with different numbers exercise".
> 
> I hope for the best for everyone here bc I know how hard we all worked and we've all sacrificed and suffered... Some probably more than others , which may not be fair but, I'm sorry to say, life isn't fair, processes aren't perfect, and sometimes good work and good faith goes unrewarded.  But you can either feel sorry for yourself and get mad and all that ... Or you can simply take a breath and give it another shot.  And if you miss your window, or never manage to pass ... I say to you there is absolutely ZERO shame in not passing this test. If you gave it your best shot and came up short that's ok, you're still a better Engineer for it.


Do you work for NCEES? haha....

Generally I'd just say that the complaint about not knowing where to improve is valid in my view. I definitely don't think the test is obscenely difficult, or unfair per se. It's the time crunch, and the fact that you can repeat your mistakes (since you'll never know what your mistakes actually are). I learned relatively quickly to ignore the practice tests. I consider the SE exam like warfare--no plan survives contact with enemy. People erroneously expect NCEES to play fair, or be nice or worse yet, WANT you to pass. They don't. It'd be like Apple making a perfect iphone that you never need to replace. NCEES is not interesting in you passing the exam, full stop. You have to walk in, expect the unexpected, plan for that "oh crap I don't know what to moment" and just not make silly mistakes. Speed, accuracy, and completeness.

One thing I'll say is that the grind has taught me a LOT after passing the PE with little to no studying. I almost distrust pure PEs based off how little I knew when I passed it.


----------



## Titleistguy

I couldn't agree more with the PE statement... I one shot that test and was shocked at how easy it was.  The FE was harder.

Lol and no I don't work at ncees, I just think people are too quick to blame the test or organization or whatever.  Look in the mirror.

Not knowing what to work on ...I have a hard time believing that people don't know what they are good at and what they're only maybe ok at vs what they're not good at... If we're being honest that is.

For example ... here is where I rate myself on stuff, 1 being no good, 2.5 being average and hopefully get lucky on the test im not asked certain things and 5/5 don't need to review.  

Steel 5/5

Concrete 2.5 / 5 -- understand and can design elements, terrible with code and detailing requirements

Wood 4/5 -- could maybe use a bit more time in SDPWS but generally very solid

Masonry, 3.5/5 -- could use some more practice with non ASD design 

Bridge, 1.5/5 -- Need some work here obviously, would only wanna get to 2/5 for test requirements

Analysis 3.5/5 -- solid, but could use more practice with the indeterminate problems bc frankly I don't do much hand analysis, but influence lines, and basic application of FBD and equilibrium equations ... Solid.

Load generation 4/5 -- would like to be faster with wind, and some of the chapter 15 asce 7 , seismic stuff for non buildings.

And not shockingly where I struggled on the test was any area that I'd rate myself below a 4 in.  I know my weak spots as I'm sure everyone on here does.  And we get general areas to study as part of our feedback anyways.

Over two days we did 80MC and 8 essays, the only ones I remember are the ones that targeted a weak spot, and as such I've already started to review and refresh that stuff.  

What else can we do?  Knowing the exact reason you got a certain question wrong really doesn't matter anyways bc you're likely not going to see the same question again.


----------



## STR_BR

Titleistguy said:


> I couldn't agree more with the PE statement... I one shot that test and was shocked at how easy it was.  The FE was harder.
> 
> Lol and no I don't work at ncees, I just think people are too quick to blame the test or organization or whatever.  Look in the mirror.
> 
> Not knowing what to work on ...I have a hard time believing that people don't know what they are good at and what they're only maybe ok at vs what they're not good at... If we're being honest that is.
> 
> For example ... here is where I rate myself on stuff, 1 being no good, 2.5 being average and hopefully get lucky on the test im not asked certain things and 5/5 don't need to review.
> 
> Steel 5/5
> 
> Concrete 2.5 / 5 -- understand and can design elements, terrible with code and detailing requirements
> 
> Wood 4/5 -- could maybe use a bit more time in SDPWS but generally very solid
> 
> Masonry, 3.5/5 -- could use some more practice with non ASD design
> 
> Bridge, 1.5/5 -- Need some work here obviously, would only wanna get to 2/5 for test requirements
> 
> Analysis 3.5/5 -- solid, but could use more practice with the indeterminate problems bc frankly I don't do much hand analysis, but influence lines, and basic application of FBD and equilibrium equations ... Solid.
> 
> Load generation 4/5 -- would like to be faster with wind, and some of the chapter 15 asce 7 , seismic stuff for non buildings.
> 
> And not shockingly where I struggled on the test was any area that I'd rate myself below a 4 in.  I know my weak spots as I'm sure everyone on here does.  And we get general areas to study as part of our feedback anyways.
> 
> Over two days we did 80MC and 8 essays, the only ones I remember are the ones that targeted a weak spot, and as such I've already started to review and refresh that stuff.
> 
> What else can we do?  Knowing the exact reason you got a certain question wrong really doesn't matter anyways bc you're likely not going to see the same question again.


I agree with Titleistguy. The questions I remember from the test today are the ones I was not certain about, which prompts me to work harder on, as it shows my weak spots. I don't know about you guys, but even at work, when I do make mistakes and someone points out is when I work the hardest to fix it and understand it better. Doing so, it is somewhat hurtful to your pride at sometimes, but that is good, because you will always remember that thing you missed. The only thing about this test that I do not like is that 1/4 of the morning we are tested on bridge things, but I could say for our bridge fellows is even worse because then they are left with 3/4 of stuff they generally do not have to deal with. I feel like this test both people that are passing and not passing do so very close to the "cut score". I haven't found a single person taking that SE that does not take this test seriously or that is not technically capable at work.


----------



## BuzzKillington

Titleistguy said:


> I just think people are too quick to blame the test or organization or whatever.  Look in the mirror.


I personally don't have any problems with the difficulty of the test. I don't think most of us here do. The problem, in my opinion, is how this test is being adsorbed in some of the state boards. 


My state board doesn't recognize "SE" title but forces applicants to take the 16-hr test. They won't approve applications for 8-hr PE Civil-Structural, and won't hand out license by comity if you haven't passed the 16-hr test. However, if you do a Georgia license look-up, there's no way to tell if I have passed the 16-hr test or 8-hr test. 

I didn't take 8-hr PE test. This 16-hr test is the only one I've passed. Last I heard, if I want to get registered in New Jersey, I can't because the state doesn't even recognize the damn test. 

State boards aren't the only ones at fault. NCEES isn't sure what to call this test. PE Structural? SE? Again, IMO, it shouldn't be called "PE" as none of the other disciplines have to take a 2-day, 16-hr test to get their PEs.




Titleistguy said:


> I'm not sure why people are shocked when an actual test is harder than the practice sent.


It's not "shock"... it's frustration. See screenshot taken from their webpage below: 




You don't think that's misleading? 



Titleistguy said:


> Some probably more than others , which may not be fair but, I'm sorry to say, life isn't fair, processes aren't perfect, and sometimes good work and good faith goes unrewarded.  But you can either feel sorry for yourself and get mad and all that ... Or you can simply take a breath and give it another shot.


I think people who fail the test have every right to raise their voices if they feel that process was unjust. If their concerns are reasonable and could make the process better for future test-takers, they should be heard. We all learn from our mistakes. NCEES and state boards need to learn from theirs too.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

STR_BR said:


> I agree with Titleistguy. The questions I remember from the test today are the ones I was not certain about, which prompts me to work harder on, as it shows my weak spots. I don't know about you guys, but even at work, when I do make mistakes and someone points out is when I work the hardest to fix it and understand it better. Doing so, it is somewhat hurtful to your pride at sometimes, but that is good, because you will always remember that thing you missed. The only thing about this test that I do not like is that 1/4 of the morning we are tested on bridge things, but I could say for our bridge fellows is even worse because then they are left with 3/4 of stuff they generally do not have to deal with. I feel like this test both people that are passing and not passing do so very close to the "cut score". I haven't found a single person taking that SE that does not take this test seriously or that is not technically capable at work.


@Titleistguy

This last exam seemed easier than ANY of the previous ones, but I know I know Likely made some mistakes due to time. I've never had time to go back and review problems, I'm just happy to complete all of them. I've legitimately put over 1200 hours of study into this one component of this one exam and walked away failing 4 times already. The first time, I had no idea what I was getting into and roughly scored 50% across the board. The second time, I still saw curveballs and roughly scored a little higher than a 50% across the board. By the third time, I took School of PE as it was apparent I'd get through it on my own. I certainly thought I passed that one, but actually did worse than the second try. For the fourth time, I took EET Lateral. I legitimately thought I had a 38 of 40 morning with AAAIR (basically crushing the exam into oblivion and exile). However, I recieved a 23/40 with AAAIR. Oddly I was that far off in the morning but got exactly what I thought I would for the afternoon? I wasn't able to finish one part of one problem so I knew the IR was there, but thought I crushed the rest of it and somehow did. If you were to ask me about how I feel on this last one, I'd tell you that I curb stomped the teeth right out of that bastard. There was (1) morning problem that gave me trouble and a piece of an afternoon problem I finished with words (listing equations, code sections, and thought process) because I ran out of time. It has nothing to do with competency, but I'm fully expecting another fail now. This is the only test I've taken in my life that I could swear I walked out of acing and end up failing. I even decided to switch venues, because I am still so positive I passed the last exam that the venue had to make a mistake somehow. Possibly twice. As goofy as it sounds, my brother lost a scholarship to a university because his guidance counselor sent transcripts for another kid with his exact same first and last name (I knew people that reviewed his application). I'm not sure something similar hasn't happened to me with this exam. I'll never know due to the secrecy though. It's just, "Take our word for it, we have your best interests at heart."

Concerning the time frame, I don't think cutting it that close benefits anyone. All it does for me is make me angry the test exists because I don't have time to check my work and I have to rush so hard that I probably make stupid math mistakes. If your state recognizes the SE license, then kudos to you. I'd probably feel differently if this was a step I had wanted to take as opposed to being forced into it by the state board after already being a fully licensed PE for years. Concerning the PE, yes, I crushed that one too. I believe my actual testing time was a little less than 4 hrs total. Concerning the SE vertical, yeah, crushed that one too. Concerning college, I left with an MS degree and can count the number of not A's on one hand and probably wouldn't be able to count any had I not lost one of my best friends to leukemia that semester and spent so much time traveling to the hospital. I say all this because it's not that I or many others lack intellectual capacity to pass this exam. I'm well in MENSA territory with IQ. It's not because I lack drive and study willpower. I've read every one of our material codes several times and countless additional books in the years leading up to here. It's not for a lack of practice problems. I've likely worked thousands at this point in preparation for this exam. I legitimately understand this shit and have for the last (3) exams. I know all about hysteretic diagrams and energy dissipation, modal analysis, special seismic detailing in all materials and code specific provisions, and basically anything else you could possibly see in the exam specified codes. With all of that being said, I have to admit that I probably do have the shittiest luck on the planet. Luck shouldn't be a factor on an exam though. An exam should be about skill. I never felt this exam represented that specifically because of the broad areas of content it covers. I've felt I've had to reinvent the wheel at every turn. It's almost impossible to find anyone in the southeast that even knows what the term special seismic detailing means. It's just not done here. My architects and contractors would shit bricks if I put dog-bones in steel or drew the tie requirements for concrete SMF or CSSW. I'd be laughed out of town.

The codes have legitimately turned ridiculous. For example, I designed a little canopy for a building a while back. I designed it for 20psf Lr with tube steel. It was designed fairly tight too with .9+ UC in the worst load case for the columns. A freaking car drove off an adjacent parking deck at high speed and landed directly on that bastard. A FULL SIZED CAR AS IN 3000 LBS MOVING 35+ MPH DROPPED MORE THAN 20 FEET AND LANDED ON MY SHITTY LITTLE CANOPY! The canopy had a small lean to it after that. That's it. It was just skewed. All of these intellectual accomplishments everyone is taking so much pride in is nothing but gold plated horseshit. The codes are so ridiculous that I'd estimate almost everything has somewhere around a safety factor of 7 or higher when accounting for legitimate material strengths rather than multiple standard deviations away. If there is a legitimate place to tighten up construction and weed dumbasses out, it's definitely on the contractor side. For the most part, those guys flavor their morning cornflakes with paint chips.

I still don't want to make the exam easier. I would like to see it broken into components that states (and engineers) actually use (they are doing this with surveying now). I want state boards to not limit licensure to lower competition. The NCEES is made of state board members BTW. I would also like for the problems to be better reviewed and made transparent BEFORE the test. I'm not the smartest individual in the world, but I am far enough along that if I read something on this exam and the wording confuses me, I'm confident there is an issue with that problem. I expect more from our licensing organizations. I would like to be able to apply to take an exam 5 months ahead of time and actually receive approval before the fucking deadline so I don't have to cancel my test, lose 50 bucks for "cancellation fees," then drive out of state spending additional money in gas and hotel stay to take it somewhere else that doesn't suck as badly as Georgia. I would like to understand legitimately why grading goes on behind a veil of secrecy. There are so many issues with this exam and the way it has been administered by GA that I've barely scratched the surface. For you to say look in the mirror and better yourself is an insult to me, but you are entitled to your opinion.


----------



## Titleistguy

I'm not saying there aren't compelling reasons to feel frustrated but did anyone not hear before the test that the NCEES practice tests weren't representative of actual level of difficulty?? Any Google search will yield that the actual exam is likely harder, so I don't see how that's news to anyone.  

As far as the state specific requirements, I do sympathize and feel bad for some of the people that need to deal with internally inconsistent rules and policy.

As far as where to apply, if you passed in Georgia but Georgia doesn't recognize SE, have you tried other states besides NJ?  I'm planning to register in IL, they've already affirmed they'll accept passing the test in MI.  Maybe you can take your passing score to a different state?  Then if you have to sit for a diff test in NJ well that's what you have to do.  At least you can get your first 16 hour test recognized by somewhere first.  Maybe then parlay that into reciprocity somewhere else.  And while I'm sure you've thought of all this my whole point isn't that the state to state stuff isn't screwed up bc it certainly is.  But what choice do you have?   

I take issue with the people that think the test should be a mirror of the NCEES practice and if not then it's somehow not fair.  I don't think you can reasonably expect the actual test to be equal in difficulty, regardless of what they say....for the same reason we factor loads up despite what we think will or were told will be the actual load.  You just have to extrapolate from the pass rates that it's harder.  The practice test is easy.... We all know that.  So why are only 30-40 percent of people passing then?   Cmon... We know why. Bc it's harder then they say.  So why is everyone shocked when it's actually harder?


----------



## Titleistguy

Chaosmuppet ... I don't think anyone can have worked harder , (not sarcasm)... but what do you think is holding you back?  Honestly?   Luck?  Doubt that.  Luck is a factor but not if you've worked as hard as you say you have.  Do you have test anxiety?  Or anything else non subject related that might be hurting your scores?   

I got the As in school, graduated with honors, Chi Ep, Tau Beta Pi, Masters ...all the boxes checked too... We probably all did.  Which is why I love SE candidates ... we're all fairly bright and love this stuff.  

I feel bad you are in a stupid state the forces the requirement, and that sucks. 

I certainly hope you don't give up and I hope you get your pass this time around.  I agree that the timing of the test is dumb, no one engineers or works in the real world on 6 min clocks and in a 60 min vaccum.  My whole point is we have to play the cards we're dealt.  

If you're as solid as you say, and have everything down pat and have done 1000s of problems then you should have passed by now.  So there has got to be something else at play here.  Saying look in the mirror isnt a dig or a shot or anything like that ... It's simply saying , at the end of the day, you can't control the test, the questions asked, the format, the graders, the industry standards, the state laws, and so forth all you can control is how you prepare and your attitude.  That's the advice I give to everyone, but especially myself who needs it the most.  Don't take my words as combative bc they're not. 

Either way , I wish you all the best and hope you passed this time.


----------



## STR_BR

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> @Titleistguy
> 
> This last exam seemed easier than ANY of the previous ones, but I know I know Likely made some mistakes due to time. I've never had time to go back and review problems, I'm just happy to complete all of them. I've legitimately put over 1200 hours of study into this one component of this one exam and walked away failing 4 times already. The first time, I had no idea what I was getting into and roughly scored 50% across the board. The second time, I still saw curveballs and roughly scored a little higher than a 50% across the board. By the third time, I took School of PE as it was apparent I'd get through it on my own. I certainly thought I passed that one, but actually did worse than the second try. For the fourth time, I took EET Lateral. I legitimately thought I had a 38 of 40 morning with AAAIR (basically crushing the exam into oblivion and exile). However, I recieved a 23/40 with AAAIR. Oddly I was that far off in the morning but got exactly what I thought I would for the afternoon? I wasn't able to finish one part of one problem so I knew the IR was there, but thought I crushed the rest of it and somehow did. If you were to ask me about how I feel on this last one, I'd tell you that I curb stomped the teeth right out of that bastard. There was (1) morning problem that gave me trouble and a piece of an afternoon problem I finished with words (listing equations, code sections, and thought process) because I ran out of time. It has nothing to do with competency, but I'm fully expecting another fail now. This is the only test I've taken in my life that I could swear I walked out of acing and end up failing. I even decided to switch venues, because I am still so positive I passed the last exam that the venue had to make a mistake somehow. Possibly twice. As goofy as it sounds, my brother lost a scholarship to a university because his guidance counselor sent transcripts for another kid with his exact same first and last name (I knew people that reviewed his application). I'm not sure something similar hasn't happened to me with this exam. I'll never know due to the secrecy though. It's just, "Take our word for it, we have your best interests at heart."
> 
> Concerning the time frame, I don't think cutting it that close benefits anyone. All it does for me is make me angry the test exists because I don't have time to check my work and I have to rush so hard that I probably make stupid math mistakes. If your state recognizes the SE license, then kudos to you. I'd probably feel differently if this was a step I had wanted to take as opposed to being forced into it by the state board after already being a fully licensed PE for years. Concerning the PE, yes, I crushed that one too. I believe my actual testing time was a little less than 4 hrs total. Concerning the SE vertical, yeah, crushed that one too. Concerning college, I left with an MS degree and can count the number of not A's on one hand and probably wouldn't be able to count any had I not lost one of my best friends to leukemia that semester and spent so much time traveling to the hospital. I say all this because it's not that I or many others lack intellectual capacity to pass this exam. I'm well in MENSA territory with IQ. It's not because I lack drive and study willpower. I've read every one of our material codes several times and countless additional books in the years leading up to here. It's not for a lack of practice problems. I've likely worked thousands at this point in preparation for this exam. I legitimately understand this shit and have for the last (3) exams. I know all about hysteretic diagrams and energy dissipation, modal analysis, special seismic detailing in all materials and code specific provisions, and basically anything else you could possibly see in the exam specified codes. With all of that being said, I have to admit that I probably do have the shittiest luck on the planet. Luck shouldn't be a factor on an exam though. An exam should be about skill. I never felt this exam represented that specifically because of the broad areas of content it covers. I've felt I've had to reinvent the wheel at every turn. It's almost impossible to find anyone in the southeast that even knows what the term special seismic detailing means. It's just not done here. My architects and contractors would shit bricks if I put dog-bones in steel or drew the tie requirements for concrete SMF or CSSW. I'd be laughed out of town.
> 
> The codes have legitimately turned ridiculous. For example, I designed a little canopy for a building a while back. I designed it for 20psf Lr with tube steel. It was designed fairly tight too with .9+ UC in the worst load case for the columns. A freaking car drove off an adjacent parking deck at high speed and landed directly on that bastard. A FULL SIZED CAR AS IN 3000 LBS MOVING 35+ MPH DROPPED MORE THAN 20 FEET AND LANDED ON MY SHITTY LITTLE CANOPY! The canopy had a small lean to it after that. That's it. It was just skewed. All of these intellectual accomplishments everyone is taking so much pride in is nothing but gold plated horseshit. The codes are so ridiculous that I'd estimate almost everything has somewhere around a safety factor of 7 or higher when accounting for legitimate material strengths rather than multiple standard deviations away. If there is a legitimate place to tighten up construction and weed dumbasses out, it's definitely on the contractor side. For the most part, those guys flavor their morning cornflakes with paint chips.
> 
> I still don't want to make the exam easier. I would like to see it broken into components that states (and engineers) actually use (they are doing this with surveying now). I want state boards to not limit licensure to lower competition. The NCEES is made of state board members BTW. I would also like for the problems to be better reviewed and made transparent BEFORE the test. I'm not the smartest individual in the world, but I am far enough along that if I read something on this exam and the wording confuses me, I'm confident there is an issue with that problem. I expect more from our licensing organizations. I would like to be able to apply to take an exam 5 months ahead of time and actually receive approval before the fucking deadline so I don't have to cancel my test, lose 50 bucks for "cancellation fees," then drive out of state spending additional money in gas and hotel stay to take it somewhere else that doesn't suck as badly as Georgia. I would like to understand legitimately why grading goes on behind a veil of secrecy. There are so many issues with this exam and the way it has been administered by GA that I've barely scratched the surface. For you to say look in the mirror and better yourself is an insult to me, but you are entitled to your opinion.


ChaosMuppetPE,

I've only taken the Vertical portion this time around, so I have not experienced the Lateral portion yet, will be taking it in April (hopefully, if I do not fail Vertical). On all your tries, was a certain topic that you constantly under-performed? I agree with you that time crunch is something else. I felt like it would take about the exact 6 minutes on average to solve the problems, and if I saw the number on my calculator matched one of the items, I knew that either I fell for their tricks or I got it right. 

I still feel like you've been cutting real close, with a little lack of luck, but don't let them win, you will pass this exam! And after all this time, rather you like or not, I am sure all the studies have made you a better engineer. I wish you the best man, cheering for ya!


----------



## BuzzKillington

Titleistguy said:


> I'm not saying there aren't compelling reasons to feel frustrated but did anyone not hear before the test that the NCEES practice tests weren't representative of actual level of difficulty?? Any Google search will yield that the actual exam is likely harder, so I don't see how that's news to anyone.
> 
> As far as the state specific requirements, I do sympathize and feel bad for some of the people that need to deal with internally inconsistent rules and policy.
> 
> As far as where to apply, if you passed in Georgia but Georgia doesn't recognize SE, have you tried other states besides NJ?  I'm planning to register in IL, they've already affirmed they'll accept passing the test in MI.  Maybe you can take your passing score to a different state?  Then if you have to sit for a diff test in NJ well that's what you have to do.  At least you can get your first 16 hour test recognized by somewhere first.  Maybe then parlay that into reciprocity somewhere else.  And while I'm sure you've thought of all this my whole point isn't that the state to state stuff isn't screwed up bc it certainly is.  But what choice do you have?
> 
> I take issue with the people that think the test should be a mirror of the NCEES practice and if not then it's somehow not fair.  I don't think you can reasonably expect the actual test to be equal in difficulty, regardless of what they say....for the same reason we factor loads up despite what we think will or were told will be the actual load.  You just have to extrapolate from the pass rates that it's harder.  The practice test is easy.... We all know that.  So why are only 30-40 percent of people passing then?   Cmon... We know why. Bc it's harder then they say.  So why is everyone shocked when it's actually harder?


Okay..I *don't* want the test to be easier. I was *not* shocked to see my test. I wouldn't have been disappointed or complained about the "difficulty of the test," even if the actual test was harder than what I got. I did enough research to know the practice test was useless to gauge the difficulty and I prepared myself accordingly. I am just pointing out the fact that NCEES has been lying to us by saying the practice test resembles actual test. We have 3 different releases of practice test lying around in our office. They haven't even updated the questions, it's the same set of questions since the last mammoth failed the SE test. Is it that hard to update the practice test with new questions every other year or so? Do they only have a pool of 100 questions that they ask from in the actual test and therefore can't add to the practice test question bank? That shows how much effort they are putting into it. 

Regarding the state licensure, I was just pointing out the fact, that the states and NCEES are communicating in two different languages. Also, I am done with PE tests. If a state refuses to accept my 16-hr result, I am not getting registered in that state. Like you said, what choice do I have?

Also, good luck with your results. I hope you pass the damn thing!


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

BuzzKillington said:


> Do they only have a pool of 100 questions that they ask from in the actual test and therefore can't add to the practice test question bank?


I can verify they have at least 200 morning and 20 afternoon exam questions.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

STR_BR said:


> I still feel like you've been cutting real close, with a little lack of luck, but don't let them win, you will pass this exam! And after all this time, rather you like or not, I am sure all the studies have made you a better engineer. I wish you the best man, cheering for ya


As far as consistently failing the same material. That is unfortunately a resounding No. If only it were that easy. What really set me off the time before last was that I was told I failed the cold formed  problem on the diagnostic report (it’s really the only one you can 100% sure track). Without saying too much, it was a VERY easy problem and I am certain I got it right. I don’t know what happened or how, but I am convinced there was a fuckup from the time I turned my exam in to the time I received my results on my morning portion. How many times have you left an exam counting 38/40 correct answers and then received a fail? Even the ones I new I failed I was within a couple of where I thought give or take a guess or math error. I was absolutely certain it was physically impossible for me to fail. Call me crazy, I don’t care. Thanks for the well wishes though. You too. Regarding everyone else though, I’m sorry you disagree with me, I can’t force you to be right. Maybe your life circumstances but you in a better position for this shit. It’s a moot point, but some of the best engineers I’ve ever known couldn’t get past this fucker. The older you get the harder it is. I’m gunning for an appointment for the board. If you don’t like what I do then I have 2 words “Fuck you.” Maybe you’ll see why I’m pissed after I fuck your party over.


----------



## Titleistguy

Wow.  All opinions aside.  I hope someone with your temperament is never in an actual position to influence the outcome of something like these tests.  You're not exactly coming off as professional or reasonable or anything else that would give people faith in your judgement. 

You've been dealt a crap hand and we all get it... and everyone here, well I'd assume, feels some level of same way as you.  But cmon read what you're saying it's coming off as borderline threatening.


----------



## Titleistguy

BuzzKillington said:


> Okay..I *don't* want the test to be easier. I was *not* shocked to see my test. I wouldn't have been disappointed or complained about the "difficulty of the test," even if the actual test was harder than what I got. I did enough research to know the practice test was useless to gauge the difficulty and I prepared myself accordingly. I am just pointing out the fact that NCEES has been lying to us by saying the practice test resembles actual test. We have 3 different releases of practice test lying around in our office. They haven't even updated the questions, it's the same set of questions since the last mammoth failed the SE test. Is it that hard to update the practice test with new questions every other year or so? Do they only have a pool of 100 questions that they ask from in the actual test and therefore can't add to the practice test question bank? That shows how much effort they are putting into it.
> 
> Regarding the state licensure, I was just pointing out the fact, that the states and NCEES are communicating in two different languages. Also, I am done with PE tests. If a state refuses to accept my 16-hr result, I am not getting registered in that state. Like you said, what choice do I have?
> 
> Also, good luck with your results. I hope you pass the damn thing!


I feel really bad that you've passed the SE (please correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read your posts) ... And you're screwed out of getting licensed.  That is a shame and I wonder if there is any remedy anywhere you haven't thought of or considered.


----------



## leggo PE

@ChaosMuppetPE, no need to be threatening toward others on this board. We can all agree to disagree, that's fine. And frustration about your state's Board is fair too. But please, keep it civil in here (even though we all know, we're not civil engineers, we're structural engineers  ).

Thank you!


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

leggo PE said:


> @ChaosMuppetPE, no need to be threatening toward others on this board. We can all agree to disagree, that's fine. And frustration about your state's Board is fair too. But please, keep it civil in here (even though we all know, we're not civil engineers, we're structural engineers  ).
> 
> Thank you!


I’m just being a butthole, my evil scorpion friend. Sometimes I enjoy doing just that.


----------



## leggo PE

Gotcha. We allow buttholes on this site, don't worry. Just how you wrote things seemed very harsh to the reader, perhaps not so much to you as you were writing them. It's good to lighten up a little bit too!


----------



## STR_BR

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> As far as consistently failing the same material. That is unfortunately a resounding No. If only it were that easy. What really set me off the time before last was that I was told I failed the cold formed  problem on the diagnostic report (it’s really the only one you can 100% sure track). Without saying too much, it was a VERY easy problem and I am certain I got it right. I don’t know what happened or how, but I am convinced there was a fuckup from the time I turned my exam in to the time I received my results on my morning portion. How many times have you left an exam counting 38/40 correct answers and then received a fail? Even the ones I new I failed I was within a couple of where I thought give or take a guess or math error. I was absolutely certain it was physically impossible for me to fail. Call me crazy, I don’t care. Thanks for the well wishes though. You too. Regarding everyone else though, I’m sorry you disagree with me, I can’t force you to be right. Maybe your life circumstances but you in a better position for this shit. It’s a moot point, but some of the best engineers I’ve ever known couldn’t get past this fucker. The older you get the harder it is. I’m gunning for an appointment for the board. If you don’t like what I do then I have 2 words “Fuck you.” Maybe you’ll see why I’m pissed after I fuck your party over.


Man, I wonder if you accidentally filled out the bubbles incorrectly. It happened to me before when I was taking the PE, but PE gives you tons of time to go back and review. That could had been a possibility. Would they let you see the answer sheet? I doubt they would change the outcome, but you would at least know what happened there. It does sound a little fishy, but again man, best of luck. I really hope you pass this time around, seems like this test is taking the best out of you!


----------



## BuzzKillington

Titleistguy said:


> feel really bad that you've passed the SE (please correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read your posts) ... And you're screwed out of getting licensed.  That is a shame and I wonder if there is any remedy anywhere you haven't thought of or considered.


Yes, I did pass my SE a few cycles back and am licensed, not in NJ though (and I dont intend to do so  )


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> Wow.  All opinions aside.  I hope someone with your temperament is never in an actual position to influence the outcome of something like these tests.  You're not exactly coming off as professional or reasonable or anything else that would give people faith in your judgement.
> 
> You've been dealt a crap hand and we all get it... and everyone here, well I'd assume, feels some level of same way as you.  But cmon read what you're saying it's coming off as borderline threatening.


Sadly, it's people with my temperament that make things happen.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

STR_BR said:


> Man, I wonder if you accidentally filled out the bubbles incorrectly. It happened to me before when I was taking the PE, but PE gives you tons of time to go back and review. That could had been a possibility. Would they let you see the answer sheet? I doubt they would change the outcome, but you would at least know what happened there. It does sound a little fishy, but again man, best of luck. I really hope you pass this time around, seems like this test is taking the best out of you!


No. You can't see anything after the exam is graded except for the terrible feedback they give. If you could, apparently knowing EXACTLY what you got wrong is bad for the profession. As far as missing a bubble, I certainly considered that. The issue is I distinctly remember having 40 answered and I wasn't haphazardly bubbling anything in.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

tj_PE said:


> all this talk of not grandfathering - are you saying you want this to not be the last exam you have to take? just logically speaking what are the goals with that? Sorry, I may still be in a brain fog and not following.


I wouldn't mind taking a test as long as it is justified, but no there is a lot more to what I am saying. I'll try to make my thought process more transparent (maybe NCEES could learn from this).

The GA board passed a requirement for the 16 hr SE exam to be the only exam which will grant PE licensure in GA if you open any of the material specific structural design codes in practice. They did this despite any of them having passed this specific exam. There is no need for special seismic detailing in most of the southeast (there is a small portion of Tennessee and South Carolina that is the exception to this rule). The 16 hr SE would never have been implemented in GA had the only structural representative on the board (or his employees/coworkers) been required to pass this exam to maintain licensure. (I was happy staying my little lane).

The ideology behind removing grandfathering is that ONLY new elements that were TRULY needed would pass because the assholes passing shenanigans would have skin in the game at that point. If a change in methodology due to advancing technology or a safety concern is warranted, then it is my solemn belief that EVERYONE should have to prove competency in that new area. Hence why I would like to see these exams broken into further components that you could mix and match to suit your career so to speak. It wouldn't be that hard to do, you could even put the classifications someone has right on the stamp or even their license number for that matter.

In the meantime, without something like this in place, You have asshats out there using the AISC 9th edition and designing concrete with a 1.4DL + 1.7LL load case while passing requirements they don't understand. If your representatives were required to understand these things, I'd be far more receptive to their decisions. In addition, if the understanding for the new material or process was legitimately needed, a form of direction should be given on how to learn the new material or process rather than just kicking you right in the ding ding and then you get to watch them going back to incorrectly using  a 1/3 stress increase with current building codes while you've had to basically study an entirely new field on your own because there are either no resources available to you or you have no idea what or where those resources are.

Maybe my ramble makes sense. If it doesn't, I'm blaming the GA board.


----------



## Edub24

I think the level of difficulty is fine. They need to make the exam hard enough so that not just everyone who walks in passes. In theory it would be way more beneficial if NCEES gave more detailed feedback on what you did wrong. In practice though I don’t see how they would do that without giving the problem solution away. They almost have to keep it vague.


----------



## kevo_55

CM, what about moving out of GA?

(And don't tell me that the Coke tastes better down there.)


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

kevo_55 said:


> CM, what about moving out of GA?
> 
> (And don't tell me that the Coke tastes better down there.)


I'd love to, Mr. Kevo. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen.


----------



## NikR_PE

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I wouldn't mind taking a test as long as it is justified, but no there is a lot more to what I am saying. I'll try to make my thought process more transparent (maybe NCEES could learn from this).
> 
> The GA board passed a requirement for the 16 hr SE exam to be the only exam which will grant PE licensure in GA if you open any of the material specific structural design codes in practice. They did this despite any of them having passed this specific exam. There is no need for special seismic detailing in most of the southeast (there is a small portion of Tennessee and South Carolina that is the exception to this rule). The 16 hr SE would never have been implemented in GA had the only structural representative on the board (or his employees/coworkers) been required to pass this exam to maintain licensure. (I was happy staying my little lane).
> 
> The ideology behind removing grandfathering is that ONLY new elements that were TRULY needed would pass because the assholes passing shenanigans would have skin in the game at that point. If a change in methodology due to advancing technology or a safety concern is warranted, then it is my solemn belief that EVERYONE should have to prove competency in that new area. Hence why I would like to see these exams broken into further components that you could mix and match to suit your career so to speak. It wouldn't be that hard to do, you could even put the classifications someone has right on the stamp or even their license number for that matter.
> 
> In the meantime, without something like this in place, You have asshats out there using the AISC 9th edition and designing concrete with a 1.4DL + 1.7LL load case while passing requirements they don't understand. If your representatives were required to understand these things, I'd be far more receptive to their decisions. In addition, if the understanding for the new material or process was legitimately needed, a form of direction should be given on how to learn the new material or process rather than just kicking you right in the ding ding and then you get to watch them going back to incorrectly using  a 1/3 stress increase with current building codes while you've had to basically study an entirely new field on your own because there are either no resources available to you or you have no idea what or where those resources are.
> 
> Maybe my ramble makes sense. If it doesn't, I'm blaming the GA board.


I totally agree with this. I would hate taking an exam when I am at the end of my career (like it would be for some who are grandfathered in), but this will keep it fair for everybody.


----------



## Titleistguy

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Sadly, it's people with my temperament that make things happen.


Angry profanity laced rants about how unfair the system is, then threatening to make things harder on others who don't see it your way isn't how you effect change.  It's how you ensure you're never really taken seriously and only hurts whatever merits your cause has.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> Angry profanity laced rants about how unfair the system is, then threatening to make things harder on others who don't see it your way isn't how you effect change.  It's how you ensure you're never really taken seriously and only hurts whatever merits your cause has.


Not making things harder on anyone, but making things right and the way they should have been all along. You do you though.


----------



## Hindianapolis

And the waiting game continues.....


----------



## wchardin25

April-2019 failing scores reported on this site
 
27-AAIU
27-AIUU
24-AAIU
23-AAAA
23-AAAI

23-AAIU

22-AAAI
20-AAAU
20-AAIU
18-AAII
 
 
TehMightyEngineer’s previous research 
 
33-AAAU
32-AIIU
31-AIII
31-AAIU
30-AIIU
30-AAUU
28-AIII
22-AAAI
 
Any new thoughts on the cut score?


----------



## StandardPractice

Passing Cut Score: 27-AAII minimum. Overheard this from my cousin's wife's aunt who works out at the YMCA with a NCEES rep. 

On a serious note. I believe the cut score is all over the place. i'm sure there are some folks who have passed with a U in the afternoon, its just that us common folk will never know.


----------



## STR_BR

StandardPractice said:


> Passing Cut Score: 27-AAII minimum. Overheard this from my cousin's wife's aunt who works out at the YMCA with a NCEES rep.
> 
> On a serious note. I believe the cut score is all over the place. i'm sure there are some folks who have passed with a U in the afternoon, its just that us common folk will never know.


I believe passing is either 28/AAAI or a high morning like a 31 or 32 if you get 2 IR in the afternoon.


----------



## Titleistguy

Passing cut scores likely change test to test bc the overall difficulty changes.


----------



## StruEng

Maybe this was already answered in this thread but for those of you discussing GA, is there already grandfathering that takes place, or is anyone who works as a structural engineer required to be an SE? I believe my boss has been a licensed PE in GA for many years, but he hasn't taken any of the SE exams, so if our office gets a project in GA will he be grandfathered or should we be having one of our SE's get licensed there to take over for his registration?


----------



## Duke

To add to the cut score talk, someone on the last round claimed that they left one afternoon problem completely blank but still passed.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Duke said:


> To add to the cut score talk, someone on the last round claimed that they left one afternoon problem completely blank but still passed.


I remember this vividly.....I could not believe it because it destroys all what we know about the cut score.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

StruEng said:


> Maybe this was already answered in this thread but for those of you discussing GA, is there already grandfathering that takes place, or is anyone who works as a structural engineer required to be an SE? I believe my boss has been a licensed PE in GA for many years, but he hasn't taken any of the SE exams, so if our office gets a project in GA will he be grandfathered or should we be having one of our SE's get licensed there to take over for his registration?


It's a mess, but they accept the old SE I 8 hour exam or a minimum of 5 years of practice in Structural Engineering after passing the PE prior to January 1st, 2011 (total 9 years of experience, but you MUST have been licensed before January 1st, 2011). ANY licensure after January 1st 2011 arbitrarily requires the new 16 hour exam along with the other standard experience requirements.


----------



## Titleistguy

Hindianapolis said:


> I remember this vividly.....I could not believe it because it destroys all what we know about the cut score.


That's pretty wild.  I'm curious if its even true or not - unless they somehow got close to perfection elsewhere on the test - which begs the question, if you're strong enough of an engineer to do so well elsewhere, what could have stumped you so hard that you left it completely blank?   I don't know if I buy this story or not.


----------



## Duke

http://engineerboards.com/topic/33495-april-2019-se-results-thread/page/31/?tab=comments#comment-7561524


----------



## Titleistguy

> http://engineerboards.com/topic/33495-april-2019-se-results-thread/page/31/?tab=comments#comment-7561524


So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...

But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank?


----------



## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...
> 
> But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank?


I believe you can pass leaving one essay problem COMPLETELY blank (no explanations, code references, "steps to complete") and still pass as much as I believe this:


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...
> 
> But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank?


I'm not saying I buy the story either, but time is such a factor that it is plausible the examinee simply did not get to the last problem. I agree people can claim anything on here and I wouldn't believe most of it without seeing diagnostic reports. Even then, I would consider an image analysis before assuming the report wasn't altered. Failing an exam is embarrassing, but there is also no guarantee people on here claiming they took the exam actually did so. They could just be trolls.

Using the two "closest" candidates from the previous post and assuming they are both accurate and true, I'll do a little analysis of my own. There was a candidate claimed a 23/40 with AAAA. That would be a rough score of approximately 74% assuming the afternoon problems are graded at 10 points apiece and an "acceptable" result ranges from 8 to 10 points (this candidate would be assumed to have a 90% average in the afternoon). Combined with the 33/40 + AAAU, this would indicate a cut score of approximately 75% to pass the exam (if you assume this candidate received (2) 9s and an 8 they would receive a 74% as well). With that being the case, a passing score assuming an unattempted afternoon problem would be between 36/40 with a low acceptable on (3) in the afternoon or a 33/40 with (3) perfects in the afternoon. Again, all I can say is the plausibility is there.


----------



## dauwerda

I recall the previous poster stated that time was the issue and they used the 4 hours to make sure they nailed every part of their 3 strongest questions/topics. I believe it, if 70% is needed to pass (per EET)  3 perfect question/responses on the afternoon would give you a 75%.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Going the other way though, if you



dauwerda said:


> I recall the previous poster stated that time was the issue and they used the 4 hours to make sure they nailed every part of their 3 strongest questions/topics. I believe it, if 70% is needed to pass (per EET)  3 perfect question/responses on the afternoon would give you a 75%.


I don't believe that 70% is the minimum needed to pass. I think I personally scored better with the 23/40 AAAI, and I have already posted my diagnostic.


----------



## Titleistguy

Chaosmuppet... In the spirit of myth busters I'll definitely concede plausable.  That said there are some big unknowns here ... And you've made some reasonable assumptions, but be that as they may ...  I recall from my EET lectures this past summer that Dr. Ibrahim specifically said leaving a question blank is an automatic unnaccptable...which isn't a stretch of the imagination, he also went on to say you can't pass the test with an unnaccptable. How those two fit together no one knows .... We don't know if it's a fail bc of the grading formulation they use, or it may be more meta than that and some other pass / fail check they do.  Like checking minimum steel requirements or Cs value ... there could be something they do just to see if you attempt all the problems.

The one where the poster said he got started maybe that was enough to get him some partial credit or something but how can leaving a problem blank be ok?  Even if you score 100% on the rest?  And I don't mean from a score standpoint I mean from a fairness standpoint.   If we all knew you could choose 3 and crush them vs partial credit on 4 I'm sure some people would choose the 3 route. 

Its interesting,  but on its face I'm still skeptical.


----------



## Hindianapolis

I wish to add that his story slightly changed from the time we were waiting on the results, until it was revealed that he passed.

he wont from completely untouching the problem, to i started but couldn’t get far.


----------



## Titleistguy

I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?


----------



## Titleistguy

I guess what I'm asking is how big is that threshold from unacceptable to improvement required vs acceptable... is it an even 33,33,33 split or is it more like 0-50 is U, 51-80 is I, and 81 to 100 is A?

Bc I feel like the I grade actually starts below the passing threshold.  Which is why multiple I can still lead to a fail even if accompanied by two solid A and decent morning score.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

In all likelihood (at least from my experience), not only do you need a certain grade overall, but you are also required to have at least a 70% minimum on each part. If this is the case, you would need a minimum of 28/40 in the morning and roughly a IR IR IR IR to a A A A U in the afternoon to get a 70% average in morning and afternoon. I don't know but from the previous data, this analysis seems close to me but not quite there assuming an A is 8 to 10 points an IR gives 7/10 points and a U yields 0 points. It would seem you also have to have at least (2) Acceptable in the afternoon. Assuming this is correct, the absolute maximum FAILING score you could have by this system would be 28/40 with A IR IR IR (8+7+7+7 = 29). This would yield approximately 71% maximum failing score assuming both sections are passed and you need at least (2) Acceptable results in the afternoon as stated previously.

For example:

27-AAIU - [failed because both parts = approximately 27/40 ~ 68%]
27-AIUU - [failed both parts. morning 68% and afternoon ~ 43%]
24-AAIU - [failed both. 60% and afternoon ~ 68% max]
23-AAAA  - [failed morning approximately 58%] - The absolute minimum this examinee could have made is 69% total per my analysis. Average would've been 74% from my  previous analysis.
23-AAAI - [failed morning approximately 58%] - Absolute minimum score is 68%. Average would've been a 72%. High over 75%


23-AAIU - failed both parts

22-AAAI - failed morning
20-AAAU - failed morning
20-AAIU - failed both parts
18-AAII - failed morning
 
 
TehMightyEngineer’s previous research 
 
33-AAAU - The examinee failed the afternoon. Anything less than (2) 10's and an 8 would fail. Minimum score is 71%, average is 75%, and high is 79%.
32-AIIU - failed afternoon (highest possible is 60% in afternoon)
31-AIII - Right at the approximate cut score of 75% but needs (2) afternoon acceptables to pass.
31-AAIU - Failed the afternoon
30-AIIU - failed the afternoon
30-AAUU - failed the afternoon
28-AIII - Score of 71% indicating at least (2) afternoon acceptables required to pass.
22-AAAI - failed the morning.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?


If it helps, I am fairly positive my assumption is correct with 80%+ being A, 70 to 80 being IR, and anything less being U. The cuttoff between IR and U seems fairly small but missing any whole "section" of the problem is an instantaneous IR.

Also, some problem sections may be heavier weighted. I.E. afternoon problems may have (4) parts with a 3, 3, 2, 2 distribution.


----------



## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?


Most definitely sir. That is what is confusing/annoying/frustrating about the test. I have seriously done afternoon problems and had NO IDEA what in the name of Abraham Lincoln I was doing...and gotten an acceptable. I have thrown things together in 30 minutes, figuring out and reading the code as I go along and gotten acceptable. As in, I'd never done that type of problem before, never studied it...nothing...and apparently aced it.

On the other hand, I have looked at a problem and been 100% confident, done it mostly without consulting practice problems or having that panicky "what do I do" moment and gotten unacceptable. That tells me a few things:

1. Process and procedure are paramount
2. You get points for showing what you know....but ALSO get points deducted for applying/knowing/using the wrong approach/method/procedure code reference. This means that this isn't partial credit like in college. NCEES doesn't show compassion cuz you "tried".
3. You can hide deficiencies in knowledge on the AM. But for the afternoon, if you don't know what you're doing, *less is more*. Putting too much information down can betray weaknesses and get points deducted, even if you "finish" every part of the problem.
4. For the morning, numbers and accuracy are key. For the afternoon, code checks and completeness are key. For example, say a problem is about seismic on "other" structures. If you use the wrong procedure, or incorrectly apply vertical seismic, you're better off not doing the problem since certain key procedural errors give you unacceptable and fail the entire test.


----------



## Sheik

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I'm not saying I buy the story either, but time is such a factor that it is plausible the examinee simply did not get to the last problem. I agree people can claim anything on here and I wouldn't believe most of it without seeing diagnostic reports. Even then, I would consider an image analysis before assuming the report wasn't altered. Failing an exam is embarrassing, but there is also no guarantee people on here claiming they took the exam actually did so. They could just be trolls.
> 
> Using the two "closest" candidates from the previous post and assuming they are both accurate and true, I'll do a little analysis of my own. There was a candidate claimed a 23/40 with AAAA. That would be a rough score of approximately 74% assuming the afternoon problems are graded at 10 points apiece and an "acceptable" result ranges from 8 to 10 points (this candidate would be assumed to have a 90% average in the afternoon). Combined with the 33/40 + AAAU, this would indicate a cut score of approximately 75% to pass the exam (if you assume this candidate received (2) 9s and an 8 they would receive a 74% as well). With that being the case, a passing score assuming an unattempted afternoon problem would be between 36/40 with a low acceptable on (3) in the afternoon or a 33/40 with (3) perfects in the afternoon. Again, all I can say is the plausibility is there.


23/40 - AAAA - I'm the poor guy.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Sheik said:


> 23/40 - AAAA - I'm the poor guy.


Sheik...that was close man.

This time you shall pass...


----------



## Titleistguy

I met someone the day I took the test that scored like that he said in the past.   Said he crushed the PM and it was the am that got him.


----------



## Sheik

Hindianapolis said:


> Sheik...that was close man.
> 
> This time you shall pass...


Thank you Friend! I am hoping for it.


----------



## User1

Titleistguy said:


> I guess what I'm asking is how big is that threshold from unacceptable to improvement required vs acceptable... is it an even 33,33,33 split or is it more like 0-50 is U, 51-80 is I, and 81 to 100 is A?
> 
> Bc I feel like the I grade actually starts below the passing threshold.  Which is why multiple I can still lead to a fail even if accompanied by two solid A and decent morning score.


I got an IR on the wood problem last cycle and it would have been acceptable if i didn't completely bomb the geometry. i caught it and mentioned it, but it was SO BAD that it didn't get acceptable. 

I thought for sure I would have gotten unacceptable because it was such a mess. 

I'm not sure if that answers your question. I also quoted the wrong thing. 

It's too early.


----------



## Titleistguy

@Sheik

Ditto that man.  I hope you pass as well.


----------



## Sheik

Titleistguy said:


> @Sheik
> 
> Ditto that man.  I hope you pass as well.


Thanks and lets hope all of us pass this time. Even though the test is very difficult and challenging in many ways we are still trying our best to pass. I really appreciate everyone for their dedication.


----------



## TehMightyEngineer

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> In all likelihood (at least from my experience), not only do you need a certain grade overall, but you are also required to have at least a 70% minimum on each part. If this is the case, you would need a minimum of 28/40 in the morning and roughly a IR IR IR IR to a A A A U in the afternoon to get a 70% average in morning and afternoon. I don't know but from the previous data, this analysis seems close to me but not quite there assuming an A is 8 to 10 points an IR gives 7/10 points and a U yields 0 points. It would seem you also have to have at least (2) Acceptable in the afternoon. Assuming this is correct, the absolute maximum FAILING score you could have by this system would be 28/40 with A IR IR IR (8+7+7+7 = 29). This would yield approximately 71% maximum failing score assuming both sections are passed and you need at least (2) Acceptable results in the afternoon as stated previously.
> 
> For example:
> 
> 27-AAIU - [failed because both parts = approximately 27/40 ~ 68%]
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TehMightyEngineer’s previous research
> 
> 33-AAAU - The examinee failed the afternoon. Anything less than (2) 10's and an 8 would fail. Minimum score is 71%, average is 75%, and high is 79%.
> ...


Interesting thought on the afternoon scoring (scored 1 to 10). This might be correct given how we supposedly have one person confident they got an unacceptable on an afternoon and passed. I always assumed that there was no "range" of scores that "acceptable" got you but looking at how each afternoon problem has multiple parts I could see how they could have such a 1-10 scoring system.


----------



## dauwerda

Nathan55 said:


> Most definitely sir. That is what is confusing/annoying/frustrating about the test. I have seriously done afternoon problems and had NO IDEA what in the name of Abraham Lincoln I was doing...and gotten an acceptable. I have thrown things together in 30 minutes, figuring out and reading the code as I go along and gotten acceptable. As in, I'd never done that type of problem before, never studied it...nothing...and apparently aced it.


I agree with this and have the same experience.

The issue with not knowing what we are doing and wading through the code to get the solution is that it tends to use up your time. So while the problem solution ends up structured just how the graders would like to see it, it doesn't allow enough time to do all 4 problems in this fashion.


----------



## Nathan55

TehMightyEngineer said:


> Interesting thought on the afternoon scoring (scored 1 to 10). This might be correct given how we supposedly have one person confident they got an unacceptable on an afternoon and passed. I always assumed that there was no "range" of scores that "acceptable" got you but looking at how each afternoon problem has multiple parts I could see how they could have such a 1-10 scoring system.


I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.

And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Nathan55 said:


> I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.
> 
> And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.


I'm still thinking you get Zero points for an "Unacceptable". Otherwise, assuming you did two problems half ass and then did two perfectly, you could have AAUU and pass with a 30/40 (10+10+5+5=30/40). I believe I am a testament that this is "Unacceptable".

I'm not saying the scenario that I came up with is perfect, but with the data set I have, it fits the mold.

My formulation is as follows:

    Must pass morning with a minimum of 28/40 = 70% &lt;-- No exceptions. Anything lower in the morning is an autofail, otherwise, several of us would already be SE bound.

Afternoon Grading: Must pass with a minimum of 28/40 points. &lt;-- No exceptions. Anything lower in the afternoon is an autofail, otherwise, several of us would already be SE bound.

   Acceptable = 8 to 10 points

   Improvement required = 7 points

   Unacceptable = 0 points

In addition to the above requirements:

   Must have a minimum of (2) Acceptable grades in the afternoon. (4 IR would give you 28, but I doubt you pass with that score.)

   Must log on the www.engineerboards.com and praise NCEES for the excellent job they do.

Of course the other option is the 33/40 score with AAAU is a lie.

NCEES is the awesomest of all of the licensure organizations and everything they do is perfect because they are composed of perfect, supremely intelligent, and beautiful people.

By the way, I would like to spell out to everyone that South Carolina has one of the MOST professional Engineering Boards in the nation. I would definitely recommend taking the exam there to anyone.


----------



## Sheik

Nathan55 said:


> I do have it on good authority from the EET gentlemen that an acceptable on an essay problem is in fact a range. So maybe the grading scale is UA=0-50%, IR=50-80%, A=80-100%.
> 
> And this would make sense. I've left a problem blank, and gotten unacceptable...so that's a zero. I've also done an essay problem all the way through, and retrospectively made some clear errors in procedure or just missed things completely. I highly doubt I got a 0%, but likely was below 50%. But that got me an unacceptable nonetheless. And if you look at problems where you can get an acceptable and not have a full calculations...that provides further evidence that "Acceptable" is a range. Since otherwise, it wouldn't be fair to give an examinee who completed everything (even from a calculation perspective) the same grade as one who went the explanation/steps route.


@Nathan,

That makes sense. in April, I felt I didn't do well in one of the PM problem and I got acceptable. Definitely there is a range for Acceptable , IR &amp; UA.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Hey, err body! Only about 5 weeks to go until your dream comes true. Whether it’s a nightmare or not I can’t say...


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

@tj_PE, why you poop on everything I do?


----------



## User1

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> @tj_PE, why you poop on everything I do?


:dunno:


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

tj_PE said:


> :dunno:


It’s ok. I still love you.


----------



## User1

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> It’s ok. I still love you.


if it helps i use the poop emoji for "oh shit" responses


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Just one more month...


----------



## Titleistguy

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Just one more month...


One more month to convince myself that its not big deal if I fail, despite knowing it'll kill me inside.

I'd almost rather just not know.


----------



## deviationz

@ChaosMuppetPE - did you end up taking the exam this cycle?


----------



## Dean Agnostic

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I will be seeking an appointment to the GA board


----------



## Dean Agnostic

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> If you don’t like what I do then I have 2 words “Fuck you.” Maybe you’ll see why I’m pissed after I fuck your party over.


----------



## User1

grading workshop is first weekend of december / 2 weekends from now. we could have results in 2.5 weeks.


----------



## BCEngineer

The registration for next April's SE exams will start on Dec. 9, 2019. Less than two weeks to wait....


----------



## User1

BCEngineer said:


> The registration for next April's SE exams will start on Dec. 9, 2019. Less than two weeks to wait....


that doesn't mean we will have results by then. someone will likely know the results on the 9th, but not necessarily the exam takers.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> .......I will put all of the practicing engineers and young examinees on a equal playing field. By doing this, if there is a legitimate reason for a new exam such as a change in technology or an issue with public safety, everyone will be required to prove their competency and not just punish new entrants.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Lets see if the PE results get released this week. If it does then SE resilts should shortly follow....


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Hindianapolis said:


> Lets see if the PE results get released this week. If it does then SE resilts should shortly follow....


The December issue of Licensure Exchange just posted on the NCEES Website. It states the grading workshop is this weekend. Looks like our results will probably be out around December the 13th to the 16th if the release pattern for the prior years holds.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

deviationz said:


> @ChaosMuppetPE - did you end up taking the exam this cycle?


I did. I'm a glutton for punishment, I suppose. I feel like I'm in an ncee S &amp; M novel. I'm definitely strapped to the table of shame and taking my lashings.


----------



## User1

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> The December issue of Licensure Exchange just posted on the NCEES Website. It states the grading workshop is this weekend. Looks like our results will probably be out around December the 13th to the 16th if the release pattern for the prior years holds.


i knew this before it posted, because ashlei at ncees hadn't been getting harassed yet for results and she answered my inquiry (about the grading workshop)


----------



## Nathan55

tj_PE said:


> i knew this before it posted, because ashlei at ncees hadn't been getting harassed yet for results and she answered my inquiry (about the grading workshop)


I was actually curious how you knew, and briefly considered the possibility that you were Ashlei.


----------



## User1

Nathan55 said:


> I was actually curious how you knew, and briefly considered the possibility that you were Ashlei.


i should have elaborated - i was just so anxious to share the info loll


----------



## User1

I also wished ashlei luck in the upcoming berating of questions about results and told her I appreciated her time. 

Maybe now i'll pass?? :dunno:


----------



## Nathan55

tj_PE said:


> I also wished ashlei luck in the upcoming berating of questions about results and told her I appreciated her time.
> 
> Maybe now i'll pass?? :dunno:


Hopefully. Also, offer her half of what the registration fee would be for spring, as a non-coercive gift, were things to work out in your favor. As a wise man once said, "if you say 'no quid pro quo' at the end, then...there's no quid pro quo."


----------



## Nathan55

I'm slowly coming to the realization that the SE exam is a veritable Kobayashi Maru scenario for structural engineers.


----------



## STR_BR

Seems like we are looking at early to mid next week for the release of the results.


----------



## Titleistguy

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I did. I'm a glutton for punishment, I suppose. I feel like I'm in an ncee S &amp; M novel. I'm definitely strapped to the table of shame and taking my lashings.


His test location just said... "Red Room"


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Nathan55 said:


> I'm slowly coming to the realization that the SE exam is a veritable Kobayashi Maru scenario for structural engineers.


While I had to look up what Kobayashi Maru is (not so much a trekkie, but I do love me some scifi), it kind of is a no-win situation on a lot of fronts. One big win though, is that this exam will absolutely limit competition so at least, if you make it, future compensation should go through the roof. As I've complained about 1000 times before, the biggest issue is that everyone should have to pass it. If boards are going to make it a requirement for new licensees, it's not fair to the profession. How many people do you know still using the 9th ed AISC and ignoring seismic altogether? (&lt;- I know quite a few)


----------



## Titleistguy

In fairness, when i started my career in 06, green book was ubiquitous and even through 2016 I'd see it quite a bit.  Now in 2019 I'm starting to see the old timers who refused to budge either retire or in some cases get let go and all the young up and coming engineers are very current and as a bonus tech savvy.


----------



## kevo_55

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> How many people do you know still using the 9th ed AISC and ignoring seismic altogether? (&lt;- I know quite a few)


I know a few like that but those people also ignore wind loading, know nothing about aspect ratio limits for wood diaphragms, &amp; still sign things w/o reviewing them. Granted, now it is my job to start undoing decades of this thought processes embedded into my workplace but I really can see your point on having no grandfathering without passing the SE exam for everyone.

I don't see that happening but it would solve many problems our profession is facing.

:2cents:


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

kevo_55 said:


> I know a few like that but those people also ignore wind loading, know nothing about aspect ratio limits for wood diaphragms, &amp; still sign things w/o reviewing them. Granted, now it is my job to start undoing decades of this thought processes embedded into my workplace but I really can see your point on having no grandfathering without passing the SE exam for everyone.
> 
> I don't see that happening but it would solve many problems our profession is facing.
> 
> :2cents:


If we all put 2 cents in, we might have a dollar.


----------



## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> In fairness, when i started my career in 06, green book was ubiquitous and even through 2016 I'd see it quite a bit.  Now in 2019 I'm starting to see the old timers who refused to budge either retire or in some cases get let go and all the young up and coming engineers are very current and as a bonus tech savvy.


Something I noticed about SEs in general, even if they passed a long time ago, is how they approach design. So even though the angry side of me wants to say they should need to retake it and suffer like the rest of us....the objective side of me realizes that passing the test in general changes your engineering methodology. I notice that SEs who passed 10-20 years ago, even when they get to the madness that is the newer codes (I'm looking at you, ACI) they look for things that are important for design of the overall system. They don't "forget" that you need to have collectors, or things like that. The Obi-wans of the profession have a few tricks up their sleeve from back in the day.


----------



## Titleistguy

So SE exam results pool ... 

I'm putting 20 on Friday the 13th.... who else wants in?


----------



## leggo PE

Has it been getting released sooner than two weeks after the PE exam is first released? I feel like that's what it used to be...


----------



## NikR_PE

Titleistguy said:


> So SE exam results pool ...
> 
> I'm putting 20 on Friday the 13th.... who else wants in?


delivered by Jason Voorhees


----------



## User1

leggo PE said:


> Has it been getting released sooner than two weeks after the PE exam is first released? I feel like that's what it used to be...


Usually week after grading workshop, which is this weekend 

I agree with F13


----------



## JP87

Last December it was released on Monday, December 10th. Is it too much wishful thinking that it will be released this Monday the 9th?


----------



## User1

JP87 said:


> Last December it was released on Monday, December 10th. Is it too much wishful thinking that it will be released this Monday the 9th?


I won't be prepared to know that early


----------



## Titleistguy

NikR_PE said:


> delivered by Jason Voorhees


Lol


----------



## NikR_PE

Titleistguy said:


> Lol
> 
> View attachment 14683


I can tell by this artwork, your pent up energy from waiting for the results is being used wisely.


----------



## wchardin25

Exams are being scored right now in Clemson. Who’s close to SC that can go sit in on that and let us know how It’s going?


----------



## Nathan55

wchardin25 said:


> Exams are being scored right now in Clemson. Who’s close to SC that can go sit in on that and let us know how It’s going?


I'm envisioning a heist. Something like stealing the death star plans in Rogue One. Hopefully we don't all *spoiler redacted* at the end though.


----------



## Titleistguy

Rick and Morty S4:E3.  (Goofs on heist movies lol)


----------



## Titleistguy

So.....when results come in, do we get a pass or fail letter? Or is everything on the ncees site?


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

You get a certificate of participation if you fail. Just a "pass" online if you pass.


----------



## Titleistguy

So it's quite possible that next weekend I'll be studying for the SE exam, sigh.  

Talked to my Madre today for a minute ... she says, hey, Titleistguy what do you want for Christmas?  I say, "i want a 28/40, and an AAII in my stocking"  She quips, "ok same golf balls again?" I reply, "yea." 

Then as I contemplated Christmas shopping in that moment I realized that I may not have time to do that this year.  So I followed my 'yea' up with.... "do you and dad like Amazon gift cards?"

Good luck everyone on the upcoming news this week.


----------



## JP87




----------



## FLOrida

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I wonder what happened and who’s in trouble. The mods are hypersensitive around test time due to previous incidents though.


some are overly butt hurt when you call them out on something


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

FLOrida said:


> some are overly butt hurt when you call them out on something


I've had run-ins with most of them. I'd say of all the sites I traffic, the ones here are the most reasonable and quick to help.


----------



## Titleistguy

So has anyone heard anything on results or any possible time line updates?


----------



## kevo_55

I don't think that the other exams have been released yet.

I'd say that this one would be the last to be released, but who knows these days.


----------



## HiroAndJen

I'm guessing Wednesday or Thursday at the earliest.  All this anticipation is definitely not helping my deadline this week lol.


----------



## JP87

I think the results will come out today... I can feel it! lol. Either way, Good Luck Everyone!


----------



## STR_BR

I doubt that would be the case, usually they are released after the PE results are out, and the PE results are yet to be released.


----------



## GTTrekkie

STR_BR said:


> I doubt that would be the case, usually they are released after the PE results are out, and the PE results are yet to be released.


I'm kinda hoping our results come out before the PE just to see their boards light up...


----------



## Nathan55

GTTrekkie said:


> I'm kinda hoping our results come out before the PE just to see their boards light up...


Wait so...PE results aren't even out yet? Seriously?


----------



## GTTrekkie

Nathan55 said:


> Wait so...PE results aren't even out yet? Seriously?


Not yet, the consensus over there is that the Control Systems grading workshop may not have been completed yet.


----------



## dauwerda

the last time results for the PE and SE were released on the same day was for the October 2014 exam

https://ncees.org/update-october-2014-exam-results/


----------



## Nathan55

dauwerda said:


> the last time results for the PE and SE were released on the same day was for the October 2014 exam
> 
> https://ncees.org/update-october-2014-exam-results/


Wow. Well I won't lie...part of me is happy they are suffering too haha


----------



## Titleistguy

To the best of someone's knowledge are all results for the SE released at same time? Or are different states on different timelines?

Also, not related, if it's going to be the PE Structural moving forward does that change the suffix we all hope to place after our names? 

Julie Engineer P.E., P.E.S.

Johnny Engineer P.E.S ? 

I dont like it.


----------



## dauwerda

Titleistguy said:


> To the best of someone's knowledge are all results for the SE released at same time? Or are different states on different timelines?


The NCEES releases all results to the state boards at the same time. Each state board releases results to individuals differently. Some states stay out of it and as soon as NCEES releases, you can view your results on their (NCEES) website. Other states may take a few hours or days to process and post results.


----------



## GTTrekkie

Titleistguy said:


> To the best of someone's knowledge are all results for the SE released at same time? Or are different states on different timelines?
> 
> Also, not related, if it's going to be the PE Structural moving forward does that change the suffix we all hope to place after our names?
> 
> Julie Engineer P.E., P.E.S.
> 
> Johnny Engineer P.E.S ?
> 
> I dont like it.


While still a while away for me (I have to take vert if I pass lat this time) I have given this some thought...I think since most (all?) states recognize the S.E. license I think its appropriate to use Titleistguy, P.E., S.E.


----------



## User1

ncees releases results to states at same time. states have different flowcharts of what they do with that information, so it affects when we get our personal results. I might fail before you pass. 

I have to be particular of order on letters. 

Julie Engineer PE., RA. instead of the other way around....


----------



## Titleistguy

tj_PE said:


> ncees releases results to states at same time. states have different flowcharts of what they do with that information, so it affects when we get our personal results. I might fail before you pass.
> 
> I have to be particular of order on letters.
> 
> Julie Engineer PE., RA. instead of the other way around....


Oh Julie,  here's hoping itll be pass for you either way.  I took two tests, and will be happy happy with one pass or two almost passed.  I just dont wanna see that I bombed out on either and certainly not both.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Titleistguy said:


> Oh Julie,  here's hoping itll be pass for you either way.  I took two tests, and will be happy happy with one pass or two almost passed.  I just dont wanna see that I bombed out on either and certainly not both.


May you never know how bad you did......Amen


----------



## Titleistguy

Hindianapolis said:


> May you never know how bad you did......Amen


Likewise friend.


----------



## Titleistguy

tj_PE said:


> ncees releases results to states at same time. states have different flowcharts of what they do with that information, so it affects when we get our personal results. I might fail before you pass.
> 
> I have to be particular of order on letters.
> 
> Julie Engineer PE., RA. instead of the other way around....


Why does the letter order matter for you?  Is it a work thing?


----------



## dauwerda

Titleistguy said:


> Why does the letter order matter for you?  Is it a work thing?


No, she just doesn't want anyone thinking she is a fan of RA.,PE.


----------



## Titleistguy

Well shit.  I didnt even connect those dots.  That would definitely be an unfortunate alphabet soup to have to deal with.


----------



## User1

Titleistguy said:


> Well shit.  I didnt even connect those dots.  That would definitely be an unfortunate alphabet soup to have to deal with.


literally the ONLY reason i would ever consider paying the ridiculous fees to join AIA


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

I am thinking we will get to live another weekend waiting for the results since the PE is not even out yet. They might release SE on Monday.... :brickwall:


----------



## Duke

As the release approaches, I can relate to Homer here. Every morning I wake up there are a blissful few seconds before my memory kicks back in that I'm waiting for the best news ever, or another depressing run at it.


----------



## mikesltj23

I keep checking despite the fact that I know we'll get an email telling us to check it.


----------



## Nathan55

mikesltj23 said:


> I keep checking despite the fact that I know we'll get an email telling us to check it.


I know that feeling. The PE folks must be in a state of consternation since they were expecting results thanksgiving week. They aren't used to the psychological trauma of waiting so long. They are uninitiated. 

My only thought is that since NCEES changed the name of the SE exam to the "PE structural exam", which is totally _not_ confusing, that they want to say PE results are now available and release everything together.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Nathan55 said:


> I know that feeling. The PE folks must be in a state of consternation since they were expecting results thanksgiving week. They aren't used to the psychological trauma of waiting so long. They are uninitiated.
> 
> My only thought is that since NCEES changed the name of the SE exam to the "PE structural exam", which is totally _not_ confusing, that they want to say PE results are now available and release everything together.


This would be unprecedented, correct?


----------



## Nathan55

Hindianapolis said:


> This would be unprecedented, correct?


My sources tell me it has happened in October 2015.


----------



## dauwerda

Nathan55 said:


> Hindianapolis said:
> 
> 
> 
> This would be unprecedented, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> My sources tell me it has happened in October 2015.
Click to expand...

Nathan55 is correct, both the PE and SE results were released on December 11th in 2015.

https://ncees.org/update-october-2015-exam-results/

just update the year (and/or month) in the url above and it should get you to when exam results were released, with the caveat that some of the years have "on" included as well as shown below:

https://ncees.org/update-on-october-2010-exam-results/

From what I can tell October 2010 is as far back as it goes - will have to find other sources if you are interested in dates before that.


----------



## kevo_55

When I took the CA SE3 exam, I got my result in January.

I know this dates me, but you guys/gals really have it good now.


----------



## Titleistguy

So Jason Voorhies still looking like the odds on favorite?


----------



## GTTrekkie

I'm going to bet on tomorrow...12/12/(2+0+1+9=12) 12/12/12!


----------



## Titleistguy

GTTrekkie said:


> I'm going to bet on tomorrow...12/12/(2+0+1+9=12) 12/12/12!


----------



## leggo PE

Hang in there, everyone! You've made it this far... What's another coupla days, or maybe a week?


----------



## User1

GTTrekkie said:


> I'm going to bet on tomorrow...12/12/(2+0+1+9=12) 12/12/12!


You forgot to omegify your loads for discontinuous lateral system


----------



## User1

leggo PE said:


> Hang in there, everyone! You've made it this far... What's another coupla days, or maybe a week?


No!


----------



## User1

Unless I failed, then ok


----------



## Titleistguy

On the 5th day of Christmas NCEES gave to me...

FIVE RANDOM BRIDGE QUESTIONS 

FOUR hour tests

THREE broken pencils

TWO days of stress 

And a 1000 dollar reoccurring bill.

I hope we all pass.


----------



## Duke

tj_PE said:


> Unless I failed, then ok


Woah there watch the language. We can't use the "F" word in here. Unacceptable is the technically correct term. And as we all know...


----------



## GTTrekkie

tj_PE said:


> You forgot to omegify your loads for discontinuous lateral system


Don't you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby!


----------



## Hindianapolis

PE results are trickling in...


----------



## StandardPractice

we next! the upper rooooom!


----------



## noPE

StandardPractice said:


> we next! the upper rooooom!


LOL!  I'd rather go to Ray's Boom Boom Room first.


----------



## StandardPractice

noPE said:


> LOL!  I'd rather go to Ray's Boom Boom Room first.


I was hoping someone would get the reference


----------



## Hindianapolis

I think we should realistically expect the results next week Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## Sheik

Hindianapolis said:


> I think we should realistically expect the results next week Monday or Tuesday.


I am hoping for tomorrow or Monday!


----------



## MR_E30

Had to create an account just to share in the anticipation with everyone else.

Took SE-Vert-Buildings in Phoenix in October.

Here's to 'Passed' for all of us!


----------



## User1

PE results have started rolling out


----------



## patkt

The results have been released to the state boards. Some boards have already released to individuals. As soon as the state board where you took the exam gives permission to NCEES to post the results into your account, we will do so.

This is ans. from NCEES Chat Operator.


----------



## MR_E30

patkt said:


> The results have been released to the state boards. Some boards have already released to individuals. As soon as the state board where you took the exam gives permission to NCEES to post the results into your account, we will do so.
> 
> This is ans. from NCEES Chat Operator.


My man!


----------



## wchardin25

patkt said:


> The results have been released to the state boards. Some boards have already released to individuals. As soon as the state board where you took the exam gives permission to NCEES to post the results into your account, we will do so.
> 
> This is ans. from NCEES Chat Operator.


Is this for PE or SE?


----------



## SoVA Eng

wchardin25 said:


> Is this for PE or SE?


Exactly what i was wondering. Their field says electrical so I'm thinking PE


----------



## patkt

All right...lets wait for tomorrow...

*October 2019 PE Exam Results*PE Exam Results from the October 2019 exam have been received and will be posted by the morning of Friday, December 13th.


----------



## SoVA Eng

patkt said:


> All right...lets wait for tomorrow...
> 
> *October 2019 PE Exam Results*PE Exam Results from the October 2019 exam have been received and will be posted by the morning of Friday, December 13th.
> 
> View attachment 15245


This topic is for the SE, not the PE


----------



## Duke

SoVA Eng said:


> This topic is for the SE, not the PE


There is no more SE exam. It is now referred to as the PE Structural.

https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/


----------



## SoVA Eng

Duke said:


> There is no more SE exam. It is now referred to as the PE Structural.
> 
> https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/


Correct me if I'm wrong but they still aren't being released until later. 

Edit: My NCEES still says SE and if VA has been released wouldn't I have gotten results by now?


----------



## Dzsan

Duke said:


> There is no more SE exam. It is now referred to as the PE Structural.
> 
> https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/


L O L


----------



## Hindianapolis

SoVA Eng said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but they still aren't being released until later.
> 
> Edit: My NCEES still says SE and if VA has been released wouldn't I have gotten results by now?


Its starts...

its called Post PE Results Anxiety Disorder...


----------



## Nathan55

Waiting for results like


----------



## HiroAndJen

I would love to know whenever the first SE Exam result is released in ANY state. (Sad note, I think I got my fall results last year 1-week after the PE release. )


----------



## SE Bridge Lateral

How much should we ask for salary raise if we pass the SE exam?


----------



## SoVA Eng

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> How much should we ask for salary raise if we pass the SE exam?


lol. a million dollars


----------



## Dzsan

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> How much should we ask for salary raise if we pass the SE exam?


Couple of questions: What's your salary now? How many years have you been there? What state? Does your company typically promote you when you get licensed?


----------



## Titleistguy

SoVA Eng said:


> lol. a million dollars


It's a relative thing....take yours years of experience and look at salaries for your role with and without SE ... find delta.

Also depends on what you do with it, are you now going to be stamping things or does it just go on your company's resume for when they bid work they can now say we have x+1 SE on staff kinda thing.

Or round your salary up to the next reasonable amount ... I think 5% min IN ADDITION  to whatever your yearly merit / COL raise is.


----------



## mikesltj23

Titleistguy said:


> It's a relative thing....take yours years of experience and look at salaries for your role with and without SE ... find delta.
> 
> Also depends on what you do with it, are you now going to be stamping things or does it just go on your company's resume for when they bid work they can now say we have x+1 SE on staff kinda thing.
> 
> Or round your salary up to the next reasonable amount ... I think 5% min IN ADDITION  to whatever your yearly merit / COL raise is.


Once you request X amount for getting the license, then that's kind of it.  But if the license opens up new opportunities for you and your company, that's where the value is.  If you think you can leverage it into bringing in more work, then that's where the money lies.  I guess you could always go for the additional up front and then prove it brings even more value later and fight for more then, but it's tough to look at the license itself as more than a one-time increase.  But if it's just now to put an SE next to your name and it doesn't change anything from your work stance, efficiency, or most of all, your own personal revenue stream, then the value is minimized.  (Or if your company plans to increase your billing rate based on the licensure, that's similar to bringing in more revenue.)


----------



## Titleistguy

Agree with precisely what Mike says and I'd add one more thing , some companies will reevaluate your salary based on comparable companies for the same role so no matter what it's worth having the conversation with your management.  

I remember back in 2010 when I got my PE I got an immediate bump, 3k I believe but at the time the opportunities it opened far out weighed the bone they tossed me salary wise.  I'm suspecting SE is similar. 

I've always found the best way to get a real increase unfortunately is to apply for a new gig with your new credentials.  But companies are all so different.


----------



## Hindianapolis




----------



## N_Mo

Duke said:


> There is no more SE exam. It is now referred to as the PE Structural.
> 
> https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/


If this was the case, we should have received the SE results, because Texas PE results are out already. Also, other states released the PE results today, but nobody reported receiving SE result from those states.


----------



## Stewie

Hindianapolis said:


> View attachment 15314


really?


----------



## HiroAndJen

When I asked, I got the auto-reply of 10-12 Weeks for PE Structural...


----------



## Dzsan

Hindianapolis said:


> View attachment 15314


No response on when they would release it?


----------



## BuzzKillington

Dzsan said:


> No response on when they would release it?


I don't think they'll ever give you a specific date/time. You'll most likely get the standard response of "10-12 weeks."


----------



## Duke

N_Mo said:


> If this was the case, we should have received the SE results, because Texas PE results are out already. Also, other states released the PE results today, but nobody reported receiving SE result from those states.


That logic doesn't follow. Just changing the name of the test doesn't imply they will release it any earlier than they have in the past.


----------



## GTTrekkie

Hopefully tomorrow, but looking like next week...


----------



## Hindianapolis

Dzsan said:


> No response on when they would release it?


Nope.

i wanna say Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## SE Bridge Lateral

Dzsan said:


> Couple of questions: What's your salary now? How many years have you been there? What state? Does your company typically promote you when you get licensed?


106 K

8 years

PhD, PE, PEng

WA

Not sure,

So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


----------



## Stewie

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> 106 K
> 
> 8 years
> 
> PhD, PE, PEng
> 
> WA
> 
> Not sure,
> 
> So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


8yr = 106K. Well, I am definitely underpaid.


----------



## User1

Stewie said:


> 8yr = 106K. Well, I am definitely underpaid.


This. WA, 13 years PE and ra and much less than that


----------



## User1

What's a peng


----------



## Titleistguy

Canadian license.


----------



## Titleistguy

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> 106 K
> 
> 8 years
> 
> PhD, PE, PEng
> 
> WA
> 
> Not sure,
> 
> So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


Any bonuses along with all that?


----------



## SE Bridge Lateral

Titleistguy said:


> Any bonuses along with all that?


That was the base, I expect 5% raise after getting the SE, I was asking others if that’s a reasonable expectation?


----------



## Titleistguy

I mean as part of the compensation package is it 106k + X% yearly bonus.  Set aside the SE for a second.


----------



## Dzsan

It should be noted he also has a PhD


----------



## SE Bridge Lateral

Titleistguy said:


> I mean as part of the compensation package is it 106k + X% yearly bonus.  Set aside the SE for a second.


No, that X is typically 0


----------



## Hindianapolis

Honestly, I think your compensation is fair man.

Shop around if you get a better offer (after the SE that is), take it.


----------



## StandardPractice

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> 106 K
> 
> 8 years
> 
> PhD, PE, PEng
> 
> WA
> 
> Not sure,
> 
> So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


 May be underpaid depending on where you live in WA. Living in Seattle, which cost of living is almost double the southeast in which average structural engineer with more than 6yrs experience (~licensed PE) in my firm makes around 85k-90k. I'd either push for 10% raise or find a company that will value the SE more to get a better wage if $$$ is your motivating factor.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

tj_PE said:


> What's a peng


The first part of how Benedict Cumberbatch pronounces Penguins.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> 106 K
> 
> 8 years
> 
> PhD, PE, PEng
> 
> WA
> 
> Not sure,
> 
> So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


Maybe you should come on over to the better side of the state...


----------



## Nathan55

If you subtract how much I pay NCEES annually, I make 10k a year.


----------



## ce-ei

Nathan55 said:


> If you subtract how much I pay NCEES annually, I make 10k a year.


LOL...so true


----------



## Stewie

Dzsan said:


> It should be noted he also has a PhD


PhD means nothing if you are in wrong position/company I guess, which I have and I get way underpaid comparing with he got... My heart and wallet is broken now.


----------



## JP87

This may be the wrong thread for this, but since we're all just waiting for S.E. results I figure it couldn't hurt to ask...

Is it just me, or does it seem like the only way to move up in pay, responsibility, and title in the structural private design sector is to bounce around from company to company every 3-4 years? I would love to hear other's opinions especially if you work in other regions outside of Southern California if this is common everywhere?

In my own Experiences: Having a Ph.D. (especially if you're coming into industry at entry-level straight from academia), it may help you during the interview process when being compared to the other pool of applicants, but it certainly doesn't equate to higher pay (at least not here in California). Of course there are exceptions if you land some niche at a specific firm that does R&amp;D or some sort of specialized services which requires a Ph.D., but I'm speaking specifically to your typical structural design firm. I work along side Ph.D.'s with the same amount of work experience as me (I stopped at Masters) and we make the same salary (plus or minus a $1/hr). I've talked to Professors, Principals, and Partners and have been told by all that while having your Ph.D. helps you technically, it certainly does not equate to higher pay, promotion, etc....in fact one principal even told me they have shy'd away in the past from hiring a Ph.D. because they tend to make some tasks way over complicated which isn't good when you need to stay under budget...(not sure if fully agreed with their logic, but I'm a small fish here..) 

I interviewed recently with a professor here at a local university because I'm interested in heading back to academia, and he told me point blank "do not pursue this Ph.D. if you're wanting to be paid more if you return to industry, it wont happen".


----------



## mikesltj23

For those thinking they are underpaid, please take my unsolicited advice with a grain of salt, but I would highly recommend finding a way to make yourself indispensable and looking at different avenues for growing your personal business.  What I mean by that as it relates to the SE is what helps set you apart in your company and does it get the company more revenue or a new marketing tool or anything like that?  Without getting into too much detail, I have 12 years of experience now and do pretty well.  There is no doubt in my mind that many of you are better true engineers than me, but I lucked into an opportunity where I got to head a structural and geotechnical group based on my varied experience and ability to deal with clients, not really based on my licensure or extreme structural knowledge, and I've moved up from there.  This is lucky for me because I don't think things like business development are my strong suit. The reason I bring this up is because I may have lucked into my situation, but I think it could help get your wheels spinning as to how to parlay what you do into different avenues.  To make more money, you want to theoretically make it so your company wants to pay you more money and rid yourself of the mindset of "I need X years of experience and Y licenses," and more of a, "What do I or can I bring to the table that sets me apart from other structural engineers in my company or elsewhere?"  Your role matters more than your years/licenses/education, so you have to find ways to grow your role.  Just my two cents.


----------



## Titleistguy

JP87 -- I was going to post this yesterday too.  All the biggest bumps I've ever got have been leaving my job to hire in at a higher level elsewhere.  I've seen some folks leave an A/E, and actually return 6mos to a year later to get hired in at a higher level.  I know a lot of that has to do with head counts and other bean county kind of things. 

I have much respect for those with Ph.D, however, I've seen no discernible difference in roles / responsibilities when working along side some.  To me Phd is only useful if you plan to remain in the academic sphere.  I'd rather get PMP or MBA,  (in addition to engineering masters) as opposed to PhD if were speaking strictly career development.


----------



## Dzsan

No updates on the result release? Looks like it might not even be until mid next week?


----------



## mikesltj23

Titleistguy said:


> JP87 -- I was going to post this yesterday too.  All the biggest bumps I've ever got have been leaving my job to hire in at a higher level elsewhere.  I've seen some folks leave an A/E, and actually return 6mos to a year later to get hired in at a higher level.  I know a lot of that has to do with head counts and other bean county kind of things.
> 
> I have much respect for those with Ph.D, however, I've seen no discernible difference in roles / responsibilities when working along side some.  To me Phd is only useful if you plan to remain in the academic sphere.  I'd rather get PMP or MBA,  (in addition to engineering masters) as opposed to PhD if were speaking strictly career development.


It really depends on the work.  If your PhD helps you to do things that others can't in a company, then you should get paid more.  In my experience, I have found PhD graduates to get too into the weeds for the type of work we often do.  But if it happens more than once or twice, then that's my fault for not properly addressing that.  In the consulting engineering industry, of course you want to design the best structures, but you also need to be mindful of deadlines and budgets.  Getting a PhD doesn't mean you can't operate in the consulting world, but it also doesn't mean you can.

And without a doubt, I've worked at 3 companies and the biggest bumps have come from the switch.  Frankly, I would have stayed underpaid and underappreciated forever because I loved working at my first company.  Lucky for me (not for others), they got shut down for political contributions and so it's helped my career substantially by opening my eyes to other opportunities.


----------



## mikesltj23

Does anyone else check NCEES religiously now?  I think I check every hour.  It's been too long since I last took it, so I forget whether the email comes out instantly when it's up.  Even if it's instant, I feel like I'll continue to check anyway.


----------



## IvanfromNYC

I have a feeling it comes out in an hour. 1:15 PM ET.


----------



## StandardPractice

IvanfromNYC said:


> I have a feeling it comes out in an hour. 1:15 PM ET.


I feel whatever they're feeling


----------



## HiroAndJen

Based on my friend who received her PE Results yesterday (and had multiple tabs open) the email is pretty instantaneous.


----------



## Hindianapolis

HiroAndJen said:


> Based on my friend who received her PE Results yesterday (and had multiple tabs open) the email is pretty instantaneous.


lol

faster than your refresh


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Not today it seems...


----------



## HiroAndJen

I blame Thanksgiving for pushing everything back a week.


----------



## Hindianapolis

I put my money on Monday


----------



## Nathan55

JP87 said:


> This may be the wrong thread for this, but since we're all just waiting for S.E. results I figure it couldn't hurt to ask...
> 
> Is it just me, or does it seem like the only way to move up in pay, responsibility, and title in the structural private design sector is to bounce around from company to company every 3-4 years? I would love to hear other's opinions especially if you work in other regions outside of Southern California if this is common everywhere?
> 
> In my own Experiences: Having a Ph.D. (especially if you're coming into industry at entry-level straight from academia), it may help you during the interview process when being compared to the other pool of applicants, but it certainly doesn't equate to higher pay (at least not here in California). Of course there are exceptions if you land some niche at a specific firm that does R&amp;D or some sort of specialized services which requires a Ph.D., but I'm speaking specifically to your typical structural design firm. I work along side Ph.D.'s with the same amount of work experience as me (I stopped at Masters) and we make the same salary (plus or minus a $1/hr). I've talked to Professors, Principals, and Partners and have been told by all that while having your Ph.D. helps you technically, it certainly does not equate to higher pay, promotion, etc....in fact one principal even told me they have shy'd away in the past from hiring a Ph.D. because they tend to make some tasks way over complicated which isn't good when you need to stay under budget...(not sure if fully agreed with their logic, but I'm a small fish here..)
> 
> I interviewed recently with a professor here at a local university because I'm interested in heading back to academia, and he told me point blank "do not pursue this Ph.D. if you're wanting to be paid more if you return to industry, it wont happen".


This is quite accurate. A business has a purpose, and the purpose is to make a profit. Paying a worker a lot is not part of that equation. Either you bounce around and get a raise that way...or you find your own niche/role in your company like *mikesltj23 *said. I actually don't think that getting your SE would give a raise per se. What it does is  make you more valuable on the open market _if_ that market requires an SE to stamp structural designs.


----------



## Nathan55

HiroAndJen said:


> I blame Thanksgiving for pushing everything back a week.


I think you're correct. The grading workshop tends to happen the week after thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was late this year...which pushes back the workshop, which pushes back results. I'm shocked that the PE results were so late though.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Nathan55 said:


> I think you're correct. The grading workshop tends to happen the week after thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was late this year...which pushes back the workshop, which pushes back results. I'm shocked that the PE results were so late though.


PE results went through a cut score revision. That's why they were late.


----------



## ce-ei

Stewie said:


> PhD means nothing if you are in wrong position/company I guess, which I have and I get way underpaid comparing with he got... My heart and wallet is broken now.


PhD means permanent head damage


----------



## NikR_PE

SE Bridge Lateral said:


> 106 K
> 
> 8 years
> 
> PhD, PE, PEng
> 
> WA
> 
> Not sure,
> 
> So, how much should be my salary after passing the exam?


Underpaid or not depends less on your qualifications and more on the role/industry you are in. You will have to compare your salary with people with similar roles and experiences. In the industry PhD's on average earn only ~5% more than masters. This, IMO, is mainly because they are working in similar roles. Your salary does not depend on your qualifications, but depends on how much revenue you bring to your company. If you bring in the same revenue as Masters you get the same salary + a small bit more as a PhD looks good on paper for marketing services to clients. 

That being said, there are industries/companies which have a proper research or R&amp;D team. You might be more valued there. Mainly because they only hire PhD's and they help create IP for the company. In such cases you can expect to get paid much more. However, in most such roles a SE (or even a PE) is not required. Only place I have seen PE SE required along with a PhD is for consulting companies which undertake novel studies to support defend client claims (mainly for liability) 

My suggestion would be to find a role which you like doing and really enjoy. Then as long you earn similar to someone with same experience and role/responsibility, you are doing well. If money is the main motivating factor then look into the industries I mentioned and find a way in.


----------



## ce-ei

Pay also dependent on industry and location.  In my current location with engineering in downstream oil industrial area students just out of school are offer jobs in the mid 70k and they average 95k once they receive their PE.  However, the individuals in the commercial, residential, transpiration, and  municipal section are paid about 30 to 40 percent less.


----------



## JayP_SE

Road Guy said:


> New Link, shouldn't show names..
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fivnpeUtnHdXuVQ1IrDQRgUAFUk9ctFYMugef4MW2jo/edit?usp=sharing


Some salary information is being collected and shared in another EB forum.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

NikR_PE said:


> In the industry PhD's on average earn only ~5% more than masters. This, IMO, is mainly because they are working in similar roles. Your salary does not depend on your qualifications, but* depends on how much revenue you bring to your company.*


Agree.


----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Hindianapolis

Today at 2?

Can someone try to harass the chat bot and confirm?


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Maybe not today...


----------



## STR_BR

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Maybe not today...
> 
> View attachment 15485


Just out of curiosity, when they say they will not be released today, does it really mean it will not be released today? I wonder what other answer they will give you if it was to be released today.


----------



## GTTrekkie

STR_BR said:


> Just out of curiosity, when they say they will not be released today, does it really mean it will not be released today? I wonder what other answer they will give you if it was to be released today.


I think that is their standard copy and paste reply. I believe PE's got that response but results still came out.


----------



## User1

GTTrekkie said:


> I think that is their standard copy and paste reply. I believe PE's got that response but results still came out.


I thought PE got "results have been released to the state boards blah blah blah"


----------



## GTTrekkie

tj_PE said:


> I thought PE got "results have been released to the state boards blah blah blah"


I'm probably recalling incorrectly since there were so many posts about asking the "chat". Hopefully someone gets that response soon.


----------



## STR_BR

tj_PE said:


> I thought PE got "results have been released to the state boards blah blah blah"






GTTrekkie said:


> I'm probably recalling incorrectly since there were so many posts about asking the "chat". Hopefully someone gets that response soon.


I wonder if that was the case because they asked at the time they had already released to the states. 

I guess the question is if they say no until the time of the day it actually gets released. I do not recall anytime they said "Yes, it will be released today" kind of response.


----------



## ce-ei

Hindianapolis said:


> Today at 2?
> 
> Can someone try to harass the chat bot and confirm?


The people in the chat don't have a clue.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

ce-ei said:


> The people in the chat don't have a clue.
> 
> View attachment 15490


Ohhhh, Kim's a tough one. She will never tell you anything. But I agree they try not to disclose until the first Emails are sent out.


----------



## Hindianapolis

so this means that there is still a chance it will be released today?


----------



## User1




----------



## Hindianapolis

tj_PE said:


>


lol


----------



## Duke

Just have to keep an eye on everything and see where the dam breaks. We can keep and eye on the chat, see if the NCEES pass rates get updated, check myNCEES(only effective depending on the state), and here in Illinois we can check with the testing service and the IDFPR both of which get updated before we are officially told which seems to be last among the states.......

Can't wait!


----------



## STR_BR

Oh well, it better happen this week, since they will be closed Monday through Wednesday next week.

If it is consistent with last years, it will come out today around 10 am Eastern. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Nathan55

Duke said:


> Just have to keep an eye on everything and see where the dam breaks. We can keep and eye on the chat, see if the NCEES pass rates get updated, check myNCEES(only effective depending on the state), and here in Illinois we can check with the testing service and the IDFPR both of which get updated before we are officially told which seems to be last among the states.......
> 
> Can't wait!


I can't decide what I'm more excited for. Rise of Skywalker or this.


----------



## Hindianapolis

STR_BR said:


> Oh well, it better happen this week, since they will be closed Monday through Wednesday next week.
> 
> If it is consistent with last years, it will come out today around 10 am Eastern. Fingers crossed.
> 
> View attachment 15495


One theory pertaining to this might be picking the release date based on their monitoring of this forum.....once they see an excitement about a certain date ( Today @ 2:00 pm for example), they change their arrangements to postpone.... this way their anonymity and secrecy is not compromised.


----------



## User1

Duke said:


> Just have to keep an eye on everything and see where the dam breaks. We can keep and eye on the chat, see if the NCEES pass rates get updated, check myNCEES(only effective depending on the state), and here in Illinois we can check with the testing service and the IDFPR both of which get updated before we are officially told which seems to be last among the states.......
> 
> Can't wait!


i didnt know IDFPR updates before results! good way for me to see if I should ask IL friend if they passed or just pretend it never happened.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Hindianapolis said:


> One theory pertaining to this might be picking the release date based on their monitoring of this forum.....once they see an excitement about a certain date ( Today @ 2:00 pm for example), they change their arrangements to postpone.... this way their anonymity and secrecy is not compromised.


Maybe we should just take a break and relax. Expect the results to be released after the holidays at the 12 week mark.


----------



## Hindianapolis

That would be a first (i guess)

Also, I doubt that the NCEES would miss out on the opportunity to destroy the holidays for some of us (or the majority) who fails....not befitting of them


----------



## Titleistguy

Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies:

*Mike*: So how long do I wait to call?*Trent*: A day.*Mike*: Tomorrow.*Sue*: Tomorrow, then a day.*Trent*: Yeah.*Mike*: So two days?*Trent*: Yeah, I guess you could call it that, two days.*Sue*: Definitely, two days is like industry standard.*Trent*: You know I used to wait two days to call anybody, but now it's like everyone in town waits two days. So I think three days is kind of money. What do you think?*Sue*: Yeah, but two's enough not to look anxious.*Trent*: But I think three days is kind of money. You know because you...*Mike*: Yeah, but you know what, mabye I'll wait 3 weeks. How's that? And tell her I was cleaning out my wallet and I just happened to run into her number.*Charles*: Then ask her where you met her.*Mike*: Yeah, I'll ask her where I met her. I don't remember. What does she look like? And then I'll asked if we  fucked. Is that... would that be... T, would that be the money?*Trent*: You know what. Ha ha ha Mike, laugh all you want but if you call too soon you might scare off a nice baby who's ready to party.*Mike*: Well how long are you guys gonna wait to call your babies?*Trent, Sue*: Six days.


----------



## Nathan55

Hindianapolis said:


> That would be a first (i guess)
> 
> Also, I doubt that the NCEES would miss out on the opportunity to destroy the holidays for some of us (or the majority) who fails....not befitting of them


I feel like NCEES employees would make great CIA black site interrogators. They understand how to make you hate your life.


----------



## STR_BR

Actually I was wrong. Looking at last year's October cycle thread the results actually came out on Monday (a full week after the SE Exam meeting) in late afternoon.



So today is still a possibility!


----------



## David Connor SE

Every year that I can recall the results came out well before Christmas. Even with Thanksgiving being late this year, I think it will be this week for sure. 

You will probably figure out the results are in by checking your email and MyNCEES before the NCEES chat person will be able to say anything definitive. If you start noticing things changing on your MyNCEES account, that most likely means "results coming soon."


----------



## dauwerda

Registering for SE exam just went from "already registered" to "available" in the last 30 minutes or so (for me).


----------



## dauwerda

Which is a bit worrisome - I would prefer to see, "exam of this type has already been passed"


----------



## User1

dauwerda said:


> Which is a bit worrisome - I would prefer to see, "exam of this type has already been passed"


both show available for me, too - and my coworker as well


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

It shows available to me too...... Anybody here that says "already registered"???


----------



## dauwerda

tj_PE said:


> both show available for me, too - and my coworker as well


That does make me feel a bit better.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Well Shit......


----------



## MR_E30

Oh my.....


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Anyone here who's account says "Already registered or Passed".. I am stressed now....


----------



## SoVA Eng

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Well Shit......
> 
> View attachment 15523


Does this mean we will get results today, or not likely?


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

The'll start rolling today. Depends on state.


----------



## GTTrekkie

I HOPE because it's few hours before quittin' time on the East they will be out today... Also, cause my stomach can't take the stress...


----------



## Donatello

is it actually happening?? 

Mine also says the tests are available... hopefully that doesn't mean we all bombed it!


----------



## User1

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Anyone here who's account says "Already registered or Passed".. I am stressed now....


mine says available so i mustve failed


----------



## SE-wishes

As a point of reference when results come out, I received my email last year at 5:56 pm on Monday 12/10 (Oct 2018 exam) from MA. Hang tight all, almost there .....


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Anyone here who's account says "Already registered or Passed".. I am stressed now....


Anyone????


----------



## Hindianapolis

It’s available here


----------



## GTTrekkie

tj_PE said:


> mine says available so i mustve failed


Don't think like that! I want to believe the "available" isn't indication of results until after the results are settled and sent out.

But mine does say "available" for both...


----------



## dauwerda

I believe I have seen in the PE forum that it is not indicative of results.


----------



## MR_E30

Mine both say available as well.


----------



## SoVA Eng

dauwerda said:


> I believe I have seen in the PE forum that it is not indicative of results.


I saw this too.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Mine is weird though 

i can only register for Buildings no bridge options.


----------



## GTTrekkie

Hindianapolis said:


> Mine is weird though
> 
> i can only register for Buildings no bridge options.


I noticed that on mine as well...hmmm


----------



## Hindianapolis




----------



## MR_E30

Hindianapolis said:


> Mine is weird though
> 
> i can only register for Buildings no bridge options.


Same.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Its happening


----------



## BuzzKillington

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Anyone here who's account says "Already registered or Passed".. I am stressed now....


I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think the website is robust enough to reflect the results in that fashion. Some of the states have to approve the results before they can be released back to the candidates. So, don't worry just yet.


----------



## MR_E30

^^ For a name like buzzkillington that is actually a profoundly reassuring post. Haha


----------



## Stewie

Smashing F5 now!


----------



## User1

GTTrekkie said:


> Don't think like that! I want to believe the "available" isn't indication of results until after the results are settled and sent out.
> 
> But mine does say "available" for both...


i don't want to believe it either. maybe it's a texas thing


----------



## MR_E30

Searched through the PE results section and it seem like AZ comes out in the beginning-middle of the pack. 

Phew, getting antsy now.


----------



## Donatello

My productivity was pretty low the fast few days but it's completely shot now.


----------



## MR_E30

Donatello said:


> My productivity was pretty low the fast few days but it's completely shot now.


Same. I can't even focus on things that normally distract me (chess games, YouTube, etc.)


----------



## Hindianapolis

MR_E30 said:


> Same.






Hindianapolis said:


> Mine is weird though
> 
> i can only register for Buildings no bridge options.


Can someone else please confirm this?


----------



## MR_E30

Hindianapolis said:


> Can someone else please confirm this?


I have two trains of thought, which you probably have as well. First, if you register for buildings then all you can ever do again is buildings (not overly confident in this statement), or second, we passed one of the sections and they know we will want to take the other section in the same category (More confident, and hoping for this obviously, as I only took vertical in Oct).


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Hindianapolis said:


> Can someone else please confirm this?


Mine is the same. No bridges.


----------



## Hindianapolis

MR_E30 said:


> I have two trains of thought, which you probably have as well. First, if you register for buildings then all you can ever do again is buildings (not overly confident in this statement), or second, we passed one of the sections and they know we will want to take the other section in the same category (More confident, and hoping for this obviously, as I only took vertical in Oct).


eggs-actly. I only took vertical buildings


----------



## kevo_55

Get ready for the ride of your life folks!


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

So, which states are the ones that come in first? Any idea? I called Texas board, the rep said she had no idea yet about the results being released to the board. But then again she said the PE results were released on Friday which in fact were released on Thursday. Fingers crossed, hopefully Texas comes out today.


----------



## MR_E30

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> So, which states are the ones that come in first? Any idea? I called Texas board, the rep said she had no idea yet about the results being released to the board. But then again she said the PE results were released on Friday which in fact were released on Thursday. Fingers crossed, hopefully Texas comes out today.


Check through the PE Oct 2019 results thread on this website to see where you fall relative to others. Cant recall TX, but AZ came out in the beginning-middle of the pack.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

I just wanna see some Green.................I like red only when marking drawings.


----------



## Hindianapolis

@Titleistguy

where you at man?!


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Looks like Michigan was one of the first's. Anybody from Michigan got their results yet??? @Titleistguy?


----------



## StandardPractice

NC is usually one of the 1st out as well...no email yet to report from NC


----------



## Hindianapolis

Michigan here. Negative


----------



## dauwerda

I hope he is busy celebrating!


----------



## BuzzKillington

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Fingers crossed, hopefully Texas comes out today.


Last year, most of the states released the SE results on 12/10, while I got mine (Texas) on 12/12. Although, in the next cycle, Texas released it on the same day as most of the other states (06/14).


----------



## HiroAndJen

@BuzzKillington

Damn. You're right. That's no good for me.


----------



## Titleistguy

MR_E30 said:


> Same. I can't even focus on things that normally distract me (chess games, YouTube, etc.)


If you play at all on chess.com, look me up (titleistguy), I'm not exactly killing it in ELO ratings, usually around 900.  But I'd love to play sometime.  5min blitz games is all I can squeeze in between meetings.


----------



## Titleistguy

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Looks like Michigan was one of the first's. Anybody from Michigan got their results yet??? @Titleistguy?


Oh man, I'm scared to look.

Standby...

As of 3:32p, still says results pending _ more information.


----------



## MR_E30

Titleistguy said:


> If you play at all on chess.com, look me up (titleistguy), I'm not exactly killing it in ELO ratings, usually around 900.  But I'd love to play sometime.  5min blitz games is all I can squeeze in between meetings.


Ah, big Gameknot player myself (1840 ELO currently, username mre30), but perhaps I can make my way over to chess.com and play a friendly game!


----------



## Titleistguy

MR_E30 said:


> Ah, big Gameknot player myself (1840 ELO currently, username mre30), but perhaps I can make my way over to chess.com and play a friendly game!


1800 ... damn man.  You'd slap me around. 

I'm working on London system for white, queen's gambit (I'm a big d4 fan), and French / Sicilian for black.

My highest was around 995 ish, but could never crack 1000, and I've been on a bit of a losing streak and am back down to 800's.  With about 2000 games played, I play a lot.  Just don't really improve b/c its so hard.


----------



## MR_E30

Titleistguy said:


> 1800 ... damn man.  You'd slap me around.
> 
> I'm working on London system for white, queen's gambit (I'm a big d4 fan), and French / Sicilian for black.
> 
> My highest was around 995 ish, but could never crack 1000, and I've been on a bit of a losing streak and am back down to 800's.  With about 2000 games played, I play a lot.  Just don't really improve b/c its so hard.


I stayed around 1200 for the longest time. Took me months to realize that there were opening books of moves that set you up well in the beginning game. Hovered around 1350 for a long time after that. Only when I started studying chess theory and watching games of grandmasters (annotated by agadmator &lt;- incredibly wholesome YouTuber) and using engines (stockfish 10 currently) to analyze played games did I really start moving up in rankings, as I had a completely different understanding of how to play. A profoundly different understanding. 

I'm currently at 1,424 games on gameknot, where I do the vast majority of my playing, so I play a lot as well. I will say that it is definitely hard when you don't add new tools to your toolbox. Once I started increasing my knowledge of the game it became much easier to spot the right move!


----------



## Titleistguy

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> I just wanna see some Green.................I like red only when marking drawings.


red = change

green = delete

blue = comments

You don't want your scores deleted.


----------



## Titleistguy

MR_E30 said:


> I stayed around 1200 for the longest time. Took me months to realize that there were opening books of moves that set you up well in the beginning game. Hovered around 1350 for a long time after that. Only when I started studying chess theory and watching games of grandmasters (annotated by agadmator &lt;- incredibly wholesome YouTuber) and using engines (stockfish 10 currently) to analyze played games did I really start moving up in rankings, as I had a completely different understanding of how to play. A profoundly different understanding.
> 
> I'm currently at 1,424 games on gameknot, where I do the vast majority of my playing, so I play a lot as well. I will say that it is definitely hard when you don't add new tools to your toolbox. Once I started increasing my knowledge of the game it became much easier to spot the right move!


Makes sense, I'm not one of those people that thinks you just improve by playing.  I actually think that I'm not really good enough to even be worrying too much about theory, rather I should just be grinding tactics, and making sure I develop pieces, castle, not hang pieces and so on.  Between work and my real love (golf), chess is just a passing hobby but getting over 1000 would be a great achievement.  I've always heard that playing non bullet and blitz is the best way to improve b/c it forces you to calculate more and think deeper about positions which I admit I don't do lol.


----------



## MR_E30

Titleistguy said:


> Makes sense, I'm not one of those people that thinks you just improve by playing.  I actually think that I'm not really good enough to even be worrying too much about theory, rather I should just be grinding tactics, and making sure I develop pieces, castle, not hang pieces and so on.  Between work and my real love (golf), chess is just a passing hobby but getting over 1000 would be a great achievement.  I've always heard that playing non bullet and blitz is the best way to improve b/c it forces you to calculate more and think deeper about positions which I admit I don't do lol.


Gotcha. The tactics and keeping an eye on the whole board are great places to get a lot of practice, as it gives you a solid foundation, which is crucial. I blunder away games sometimes by leaving a bishop hanging, which is no fun. 

I agree. I play 95% of my games at a 2-3 days per move time control. Plenty of time to analyze a position well. Blitz games over the board are much more difficult for me.

Going from analyzing a position from 2 moves ahead to 5+ moves ahead was another piece of my ranking climbing puzzle.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Titleistguy said:


> red = change
> 
> green = delete
> 
> blue = comments
> 
> You don't want your scores deleted.


I'll still stick with Green as far as NCEES is concerned...

:wtlw:


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Woooohooooo.... Texas Releases. Lateral only 2nd time and PASSED...


----------



## sachin1983

TX Result came in at 3:51 PM EST - Passed the Vertical SE - Building.


----------



## kevo_55

Congrats!!


----------



## MR_E30

Congrats to you both!


----------



## SoVA Eng

sachin1983 said:


> TX Result came in at 3:51 PM EST - Passed the Vertical SE - Building.


Congrats!


----------



## Stewie

Congrats!


----------



## N_Mo

Texas is out. Officially S.E. holder. Passed Lateral - Building


----------



## Sheik

StandardPractice said:


> NC is usually one of the 1st out as well...no email yet to report from NC


No result from NC yet.


----------



## Sheik

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Woooohooooo.... Texas Releases. Lateral only 2nd time and PASSED...
> 
> View attachment 15533


Congrats!


----------



## Sheik

sachin1983 said:


> TX Result came in at 3:51 PM EST - Passed the Vertical SE - Building.


congrats!


----------



## Sheik

N_Mo said:


> Texas is out. Officially S.E. holder. Passed Lateral - Building


congrats!


----------



## STR_BR

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Woooohooooo.... Texas Releases. Lateral only 2nd time and PASSED...
> 
> View attachment 15533


COngratulations!


----------



## leggo PE

Congrats, everyone who passed!

I hope the rest of you get your positive results asap!


----------



## Stewie

Man, I get panic attack. Pending is better than red!


----------



## dauwerda

congrats!


----------



## STR_BR

sachin1983 said:


> TX Result came in at 3:51 PM EST - Passed the Vertical SE - Building.


Congrats! Did you get the email from NCEES first, or did you go straight to the account?


----------



## dauwerda

My state board (NE) is telling me they have released the results but I haven't seen anything yet


----------



## HiroAndJen

After failing both last October, passing Vertical in April, and taking Lateral this past October I didn't think I could take another Fail. (Especially since I'm getting married in May 2020)

I worked all weekend for a deadline (that I am staying late for tonight) and was prepared to be devastated.

I COULD CRY TEARS OF JOY RIGHT NOW. I AM DONE! OVER AND OUT!

CONGRATS TO EVERYONE THAT PASSED, and if you didn't, be tenacious and you will!


----------



## Stewie

HiroAndJen said:


> After failing both last October, passing Vertical in April, and taking Lateral this passed October I didn't think I could take another Fail. (Especially since I'm getting married in April 2020)
> 
> I worked all weekend for a deadline (that I am staying late for tonight) and was prepared to be devastated.
> 
> I COULD CRY TEARS OF JOY RIGHT NOW. I AM DONE! OVER AND OUT!
> 
> CONGRATS TO EVERYONE THAT PASSED, and if you didn't, be tenacious and you will!


Congrats!


----------



## MR_E30

Congrats!


----------



## Sheik

HiroAndJen said:


> After failing both last October, passing Vertical in April, and taking Lateral this past October I didn't think I could take another Fail. (Especially since I'm getting married in May 2020)
> 
> I worked all weekend for a deadline (that I am staying late for tonight) and was prepared to be devastated.
> 
> I COULD CRY TEARS OF JOY RIGHT NOW. I AM DONE! OVER AND OUT!
> 
> CONGRATS TO EVERYONE THAT PASSED, and if you didn't, be tenacious and you will!


congrats!


----------



## Titleistguy

This wait is killing me.  I'm suspecting that MI may not be today given time zones and such its damn near EOD.


----------



## mikesltj23

Titleistguy said:


> This wait is killing me.  I'm suspecting that MI may not be today given time zones and such its damn near EOD.


Same here, TG. Congrats to all who have passed so far though!


----------



## StandardPractice

TX da real mvp this year


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Titleistguy said:


> This wait is killing me.  I'm suspecting that MI may not be today given time zones and such its damn near EOD.


Congrats to everyone who passed.

I think calling the Texas board kind of made them check their Emails from NCEES for results. Anyways, the new TBPELS is doing a great job releasing the results on the same day. No complaints from this Texan.  arty-smiley-048:


----------



## StandardPractice

welp 5pm eastern, I'm sure folks at eastern state boards have gone home 15 mins ago


----------



## Titleistguy

Mmmhmmmmmm....


----------



## Sheik

StandardPractice said:


> welp 5pm eastern, I'm sure folks at eastern state boards have gone home 15 mins ago


What do we say to the god of death? " Not today"


----------



## Titleistguy

Vahoola magnolias 

....or whatever the GoT people say.


----------



## dauwerda

So, once the state board gets the notification and approves release, is it automated or does someone at NCEES have to be at work to release results for that state?


----------



## Dzsan

Damn Texas be coming out of nowhere swinging. Phew.


----------



## Sheik

Dzsan said:


> Damn Texas be coming out of nowhere swinging. Phew.
> 
> View attachment 15537


congrats !


----------



## GTTrekkie

Congratulations to all who passed!! To those who need to fight this beast again, you can do it, and you will do it!! And thank you to everyone on here for helping me get through the wait period!

I passed lateral building on the second attempt!! It is surreal and so many emotions going though me!! Still have to take the Vertical Building but I'm ready to face it.


----------



## Titleistguy

Congrats to all who passed !!! Well done!

Just as important, congrats to those who didnt pass to have the courage to take this test in the first place and on having the resolve to retake it.  I'm preparing for bad news myself and rather than being upset I'm looking forward to the opportunity to become an even stronger engineer.


----------



## User1

Why you gotta do me like that bro

Making me feel bad for feeling bad


----------



## Titleistguy

tj_PE said:


> Why you gotta do me like that bro
> 
> Making me feel bad for feeling bad


Lol.  Don't feel bad for feeling bad.  Feel your feels shorty.

I need to pep talk myself and it works for me.  Bc if I really think about the time,  money, and effort investment plus the opportunity cost of not doing other things I get discouraged... so I may as well see the positives.  At my age I have at least 25-30 more years of working so a 1 to 2 year struggle is worth it.


----------



## User1

AND THE LOGIC! GET IT OUT OF HERE!


----------



## Titleistguy

It's about 3 hours past my bedtime...night all.


----------



## PowerStroke79_PE

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> Woooohooooo.... Texas Releases. Lateral only 2nd time and PASSED...
> 
> View attachment 15533


why does it stay "Expires October 2024" ? Is it cause you have until then to take the Vertical?


----------



## Titleistguy

That's probably exactly why.


----------



## Titleistguy

Was anyone that passed blown over by the good news?  If so maybe we need to take another look at your sliding and overturning checks.  

*rimshot*


----------



## User1

Titleistguy said:


> Was anyone that passed blown over by the good news?  If so maybe we need to take another look at your sliding and overturning checks.
> 
> *rimshot*


Ngl I had to read that twice because it's 445


----------



## Titleistguy

Why are you up so early?


----------



## Titleistguy

Granted my alarms go off at 515a, out of bed at 530a.... but 445 is aggressive.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

PowerStroke79_PE said:


> why does it stay "Expires October 2024" ? Is it cause you have until then to take the Vertical?


You have to pass both components within a Five year period.


----------



## Titleistguy

Query to those who passed....did you receive an email proceeding your results?


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Titleistguy said:


> Was anyone that passed blown over by the good news?  If so maybe we need to take another look at your sliding and overturning checks.
> 
> *rimshot*


Well...I was a little bit worried because of 1 afternoon question on which I solved the first two parts, but had to write down the process and precisely referenced code check equations for the last two parts due to time. I must have gotten an IR for that question.... But other than that, I felt good coming out of the exam.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Titleistguy said:


> Query to those who passed....did you receive an email proceeding your results?


Do you mean "preceeding"? I received the notification Email at 2:51PM CST


----------



## Titleistguy

Yes, typo.

#facepalm


----------



## Hindianapolis

I say 11 am.


----------



## User1

Titleistguy said:


> Why are you up so early?


gotta get shit done, son (commute is 45 min if i leave the house before 5, goes up to 1h-1.5h anytime after that.


----------



## User1

Hindianapolis said:


> I say 11 am.


i feel like, in WA, they're gonna wake up, roll into the office around 830, check their emails, tell ncees "go" around 9 and we'll get results between 9 and 10 PST.

gonna put my headphones on and jam sesh / work sesh til then.


----------



## Titleistguy

tj_PE said:


> i feel like, in WA, they're gonna wake up, roll into the office around 830, check their emails, tell ncees "go" around 9 and we'll get results between 9 and 10 PST.
> 
> gonna put my headphones on and jam sesh / work sesh til then.


Yea luckily I'm in meetings all day so I can't compulsively check the site.


----------



## sachin1983

STR_BR said:


> Congrats! Did you get the email from NCEES first, or did you go straight to the account?


Got an email from NCEES first.


----------



## User1

i lied. have not jammed yet.


----------



## Titleistguy

Percocet?  Molly percocet?


----------



## Sheik

Anyone other than Texas got result?


----------



## dlegofan

Sheik said:


> Anyone other than Texas got result?


Negative in Virginia.


----------



## Hindianapolis

got the email now.

cant check in a meeting.


----------



## Sheik

Hindianapolis said:


> got the email now.
> 
> cant check in a meeting.


that is cruel!  But Wish you the best.


----------



## Nathan55

Hindianapolis said:


> got the email now.
> 
> cant check in a meeting.


Time to have an emergency restroom visit. Or maybe fake a sneeze. Or just tell everyone this is important enough to stop the meeting and your professional trajectory may change forever.


----------



## deviationz

Hindianapolis said:


> got the email now.
> 
> cant check in a meeting.


But you have time to come to this board and report it? Great!


----------



## Nathan55

PowerStroke79_PE said:


> why does it stay "Expires October 2024" ? Is it cause you have until then to take the Vertical?


Fun fact...if the fail rate is 70%, the probability of failing the vertical test 9 times in a row is 4%.


----------



## Hindianapolis

Failed.

23 AM, A,IR,IR,IR


----------



## Donatello

NY is out!

Passed lateral, failed vertical.

26/40, IR, IR, IR, A

I’m happy with it.  See you again in April!


----------



## Sheik

Hindianapolis said:


> Failed.
> 
> 23 AM, A,IR,IR,IR


I am sorry! I am really sad to hear that. I am sure you will crack this next time. I decided not to stop till I pass the exam.


----------



## Sheik

Donatello said:


> NY is out!
> 
> Passed lateral, failed vertical.
> 
> 26/40, IR, IR, IR, A
> 
> I’m happy with it.  See you again in April!


Congrats and you were very close in vertical.


----------



## Civil Dawg

Hindianapolis said:


> Failed.
> 
> 23 AM, A,IR,IR,IR


It sucks to fail (I know all too well) but that's a good score.  Get pissed off and study your butt off and you'll crush it in April!


----------



## StandardPractice

NC out, passed vertical 2nd try. Christmas will be good this year, will happily be studying for lateral


----------



## Sheik

StandardPractice said:


> NC out, passed vertical 2nd try. Christmas will be good this year, will happily be studying for lateral


Same here! Passed Vertical.


----------



## STR_BR

Passed Vertical. Will be taking Lateral in April.


----------



## Sheik

STR_BR said:


> Passed Vertical. Will be taking Lateral in April.


congrats!


----------



## User1

StandardPractice said:


> NC out, passed vertical 2nd try. Christmas will be good this year, will happily be studying for lateral


i hope to be like you !


----------



## SoVA Eng

STR_BR said:


> Passed Vertical. Will be taking Lateral in April.


congrats, what state?


----------



## STR_BR

SoVA Eng said:


> congrats, what state?


Thank you. KS!


----------



## JustAGuy

Failed both. 

Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable

Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


----------



## dauwerda

Nebraska is out. After failing both 1 year ago, I took just vertical in April and passed and took lateral this October and passed. It feels good to be done.  For any that are taking or retaking, I highly recommend the EET/AEI course, I took it for the lateral portion I just took in October and it helped a bunch.


----------



## dauwerda

JustAGuy said:


> Failed both.
> 
> Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable
> 
> Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


That's rough, so close - to me this is a prime example of why the mornings should be separate tests as well.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

So I called and talked to the Engineering Board in SC. They said they are releasing the results today. They told me I passed and gave me my proper information, but GOD knows I have the worst luck in mankind so I'm not going to celebrate until I have stamp in hand.


----------



## SoVA Eng

JustAGuy said:


> Failed both.
> 
> Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable
> 
> Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


Sorry to hear this. Looks like your afternoon sessions were on point though.


----------



## Sheik

JustAGuy said:


> Failed both.
> 
> Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable
> 
> Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


oh god! You rocked in PM. I'm sure you will crack in next attempt. Good luck


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> So I called and talked to the Engineering Board in SC. They said they are releasing the results today. They told me I passed and gave me my proper information, but GOD knows I have the worst luck in mankind so I'm not going to celebrate until I have stamp in hand.


And that's the END of your Ordeal.. Happy for you man. Congrats.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

JustAGuy said:


> Failed both.
> 
> Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable
> 
> Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


You really nailed that afternoon portion on both tests... All the very best for next time.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

TheLoneStarEngineer said:


> And that's the END of your Ordeal.. Happy for you man. Congrats.


Maybe, it isn't showing up on my NCEES yet. All I have is an e-mail from the board saying congrats. Still plenty of room for this to go sideways. Thank you for the vote of confidence though.


----------



## SoVA Eng

VA Out. Failed first attempt


----------



## STR_BR

JustAGuy said:


> Failed both.
> 
> Bridge Vertical 22/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable
> 
> Bridge Lateral 23/40 - Acceptable, Acceptable, Acceptable


Man that is tough. I always thought 1/4 of the morning being bridge related was a hassle, but I can only imagine it is much harder for you Bridge guys.


----------



## Titleistguy

Failed x 2 here.  

Didnt process the analylitics yet, just saw the red and x'd out of the screen.

Gonna regroup, analyze the diagnostics then gear up for next test cycle.

Onward and upward.  If it was easy everyone would do it.  I also have a theory on the SE -- I've always believed physics and calculus should be taken at least twice,  once in high school once and once in college to really understand it.  I put the SE in that sorta group, I dont design daily so I expect to have a longer road than others.  

Either way, congrats everyone who passed!!! Those who didn't,  (myself included) keep your head up.  

Happy Holidays everyone!


----------



## TheBigGuy

Titleistguy said:


> Gonna regroup, analyze the diagnostics then gear up for next test cycle.
> 
> Onward and upward.  If it was easy everyone would do it.


Great attitude.


----------



## Nebraskangineer

dauwerda said:


> Nebraska is out. After failing both 1 year ago, I took just vertical in April and passed and took lateral this October and passed. It feels good to be done.  For any that are taking or retaking, I highly recommend the EET/AEI course, I took it for the lateral portion I just took in October and it helped a bunch.


Nice! Very similar story from Nebraska here.  Passed Vertical first try in '18, failed Lateral in April of '19, took the EET (Now AEI) course , passed this time.  I am positive we chatted at the test site, being that there were only 5 of us.

To all who didn't pass, that sucks. Chin up. You'll get it next time.


----------



## Duke

TheBigGuy said:


> Great attitude.


Agreed, well done. GL on the next shot.


----------



## User1

i failed second try vertical. forever


----------



## Nebraskangineer

From 20/40 A A A in April to Acceptable in October. You can do it. I recommend taking one exam at a time. Take a prep course (AEI). Do ALL of the practice problems and mini exams on schedule. Then the week of the exam, take some days off work, do them all over again. Finally, play the game to win.  You can know everything and still fail because you go in and try to do the problems sequentially.  NO! Skim 10 at a time. Do the really easy ones, mark the ones you know you can do, but know will take more time. Get those AFTER you've gone through the whole test once.  THEN get the 2-4 that you know you'll need to guess on.  Play to win and you will.


----------



## dlegofan

Passed my first try!!!


----------



## BCEngineer

I failed the lateral. AM 31/40, PM Steel U; Concrete IR; General analysis A; Wood A.

This exam is totally unbelievable. I did the best in the steel but got U, while I did not do well in the general analysis and the wood, but got A. Also, to be honest, I do not think I can get 31/40 in the morning.

I am not sure If I shall continue. I passed the vertical in April, second try. I am very disappointed and upset.


----------



## Stewie

LA, Lateral Bridge, 2nd try, Pass. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you all.


----------



## Civil Dawg

Failed vert 25/40, A, IR, IR, U and failed lat 23/40, A, IR, U, U.  2nd time for lat and freaking 4th time for vert.  I signed up and got very busy with work and didn't have time to study so I was just going off of previous knowledge and didn't expect to pass...but it still sucks.


----------



## Civil Dawg

Stewie said:


> LA, Lateral Bridge, 2nd try, Pass. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you all.


Congrats Stewie!  I'll miss seeing you there!


----------



## Stewie

Civil Dawg said:


> Failed vert 25/40, A, IR, IR, U and failed lat 23/40, A, IR, U, U.  2nd time for lat and freaking 4th time for vert.  I signed up and got very busy with work and didn't have time to study so I was just going off of previous knowledge and didn't expect to pass...but it still sucks.


Man, sorry to hear that. I wish you the best luck. And I wish you get more time for study. I will be waiting for your good news next year. Keep in touch~


----------



## Dzsan

BCEngineer said:


> I failed the lateral. AM 31/40, PM Steel U; Concrete IR; General analysis A; Wood A.
> 
> This exam is totally unbelievable. I did the best in the steel but got U, while I did not do well in the general analysis and the wood, but got A. Also, to be honest, I do not think I can get 31/40 in the morning.
> 
> I am not sure If I shall continue. I passed the vertical in April, second try. I am very disappointed and upset.


Don't give up man! That's a good score... You'll almost definitely pass next time! Sometimes the questions that we're the most comfortable with are the ones we miss, because we don't scrutinize our answers enough.. Dont quit. So close!


----------



## SE-wishes

That’s it! I’m done with this &amp;@$/! Passed vertical first shot 2 years ago with limited effort. 3rd GD attempt at Lateral: 36/40!!! But U, U, IR, A. PM result has steadily declined with every attempt. Time for something new


----------



## Stewie

SE-wishes said:


> That’s it! I’m done with this &amp;@$/! Passed vertical first shot 2 years ago with limited effort. 3rd GD attempt at Lateral: 36/40!!! But U, U, IR, A. PM result has steadily declined with every attempt. Time for something new


Congrats and Well Said. That "time for something new" is in my mind for a whole year. That's really the reason of excitement if we pass.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Well, I certainly feel everyone's frustration. I am going to try my hardest to fix some of the problems I see with the exam. Again, I do not want to make this thing easier, but I would like to see it be a little more fair and in line with standard practice. Good luck to all who decide to undergo this again and may God have mercy on my soul.


----------



## Duke

To anyone else from IL. My email exchange from the board.



> CTS should release the scores on Thursday (at least that is their target date from what I’ve been told).


----------



## wgodfrey

Duke said:


> To anyone else from IL. My email exchange from the board.


Of course, classic IL.


----------



## JustAGuy

Congrats man! Any pointers, advice?


----------



## mikesltj23

This wait is killin me.  C'mon, CT board!  Just let me know I failed already so I can be done with this.


----------



## Nathan55

mikesltj23 said:


> This wait is killin me.  C'mon, CT board!  Just let me know I failed already so I can be done with this.



This reminds me of the following. Italics are my edits.


 


*Bruce*: Why didn't you just... kill me?


*Bane*: You don't fear death. You welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.


*Bruce*: Torture?


*Bane*: Yes. But not of your body... Of your soul.


*Bruce*: Where am I?


*Bane*: _NCEES_, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why _the __SE Exam _is the worst _experience _on earth... Hope. Every _examinee takes the test and_ has looked up to the light and imagined _passing and_ climbing to freedom. So easy... So simple... And like shipwrecked men turning to sea water from uncontrollable thirst, many have _given up_ trying. I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope. So, as I terrorize _you_, I will feed its _you _hope to poison _your _souls. I will let them believe they can _pass _so that you can watch them clambering over each other to stay in the sun. You can watch me torture an entire _room of examinees_ when you have truly understood the depth of your failure, and then, when it is done and _your resolve _is...ashes... then you have my permission to die.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

NCEES released SC results. Confirmed pass as SC board said. (1) more big hurdle for GA licensure and I can stick a fork in it.

Everyone, as the unluckiest man alive, I have studied just about everything this exam has to offer and know most of it well now. If you have any pointed questions, I'd be happy to help you in your future study efforts if you get stuck (like I was). I don't intend to run a study course, but I can help. If you felt the exam absolutely spanked you, you might try AEI[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]www.aei-california.com[/SIZE]

The guys there helped me.


----------



## JustAGuy

congrats man! any advice?


----------



## Stewie

Bridges said:


> View attachment 15548
> 
> 
> Passed both exams first attempt.
> 
> I also recommend AEI-California for exam prep.


Congrats. Bridges.


----------



## deviationz

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> NCEES released SC results. Confirmed pass as SC board said. (1) more big hurdle for GA licensure and I can stick a fork in it.
> 
> Everyone, as the unluckiest man alive, I have studied just about everything this exam has to offer and know most of it well now. If you have any pointed questions, I'd be happy to help you in your future study efforts if you get stuck (like I was). I don't intend to run a study course, but I can help. If you felt the exam absolutely spanked you, you might try AEI[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=11pt]www.aei-california.com[/SIZE]
> 
> The guys there helped me.


Congratulations. I am extremely happy for you and glad this is off your back.


----------



## YAZRABADI

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> NCEES released SC results. Confirmed pass as SC board said. (1) more big hurdle for GA licensure and I can stick a fork in it.
> 
> Everyone, as the unluckiest man alive, I have studied just about everything this exam has to offer and know most of it well now. If you have any pointed questions, I'd be happy to help you in your future study efforts if you get stuck (like I was). I don't intend to run a study course, but I can help. If you felt the exam absolutely spanked you, you might try AEI[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=11pt]www.aei-california.com[/SIZE]
> 
> The guys there helped me.


Congrats brother


----------



## Nathan55

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Well, I certainly feel everyone's frustration. I am going to try my hardest to fix some of the problems I see with the exam. Again, I do not want to make this thing easier, but I would like to see it be a little more fair and in line with standard practice. Good luck to all who decide to undergo this again and may God have mercy on my soul.


For no particular reason, I went back to the April 2019 results thread and it turns out that you were apoplectic about your April results. I have to say, definitely happy for you that you got it this time. If they have you help write/grade tests, try to make them a bit more fair. I've always been ok with the difficulty level, but it would make a world of difference if NCEES could provide useful feedback on what was done wrong for the afternoon problems. Financially, it would even make sense. They could charge a ridiculous price and people would pay it, even for generalities: "you forgot to check vertical seismic per ASCE 7-10 section so-and-so."


----------



## SE-wishes

I have no issue with the difficulty level either, it just makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER how I go from A on both concrete AND steel TWICE, then the following time where I get 36 out of 40 in the AM and then somehow U on both this time and fail.


----------



## David Connor SE

SE-wishes said:


> I have no issue with the difficulty level either, it just makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER how I go from A on both concrete AND steel TWICE, then the following time where I get 36 out of 40 in the AM and then somehow U on both this time and fail.


Agreed, if you have already received an "A" on a past exam essay question, then that "A" should "trickle-down" to your following exams somehow. Maybe even make the threshold (2) "A"s like what you have done. Might be a bookkeeping nightmare for NCEES, but that seems like a fair deal to me.  .001% chance that it happens, but you never know with the CBT on the horizon.


----------



## yeye9ye

KY results released. Failed SE lateral the 3rd try. (Passed SE Vertical 2018 Oct on the 2nd try). EET course did help a lot.
Lateral Results:
2018 April (V+L)  AM: 21/40   PM: IR/IR/U/U   (self reviewed V+L for 3 months)
2018 Oct   (V, passed, joined the EET course)  
2019 April   AM: 26/40    PM:Geneal Analysis/Conc./steel/wood&amp; mas.= A/A/IR/U
2019 Oct     AM: 31/40    PM:Geneal Analysis/steel/Conc./wood&amp; mas.= A/A/IR/U 

I have 1 year experience until now. Did some design in wood and masonry, small component design.

Can anyone give some suggestions on the material to cover the wood and masonry for SEL? Thanks a mil.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Nathan55 said:


> For no particular reason, I went back to the April 2019 results thread and it turns out that you were apoplectic about your April results....


I prefer apocalyptic.

I changed venues due to the fact I was so sure I passed it then that Alabama must have effed up somewhere. I still think I received someone else's answer sheet or had to "cross-up" bubbling somewhere.


----------



## kevo_55

^^ You may want to change the image. Your name and NCEES ID is on there.


----------



## SE-wishes

Thanks kevo_55. I almost left it up because that’s how angry I am but thought better of it...... but seriously, that’s got to be a record AM score and still an overall fail! Come on!


----------



## kevo_55

No problem.

Just trying to help out another (future) SE. It's what we try to do here.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

SE-wishes said:


> Thanks kevo_55. I almost left it up because that’s how angry I am but thought better of it...... but seriously, that’s got to be a record AM score and still an overall fail! Come on!
> 
> View attachment 15551


It's uber frustrating. So sorry. Sad thing is that I've been so frustrated by this thing, I really don't even feel that much better having passed it. It's been more like a kidney stone than a stepping stone. If I can help, let me know.


----------



## Nathan55

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> It's uber frustrating. So sorry. Sad thing is that I've been so frustrated by this thing, I really don't even feel that much better having passed it. It's been more like a kidney stone than a stepping stone. If I can help, let me know.


Did you do buildings or bridges?


----------



## SE-wishes

Buildings, not even sure how I could improve. I feel like I basically know everything backwards and forwards


----------



## Duke

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I really don't even feel that much better having passed it.


I'm still waiting on my results but I figure I'll feel the same whenever it happens. I can't help but be slightly embittered by this process and I can already feel the cost of the journey diminishing any future celebration...


----------



## Nathan55

SE-wishes said:


> That’s it! I’m done with this &amp;@$/! Passed vertical first shot 2 years ago with limited effort. 3rd GD attempt at Lateral: 36/40!!! But U, U, IR, A. PM result has steadily declined with every attempt. Time for something new


36/40 is definitely top percentile. All I've learned is the key to conquering this test is the afternoon. Hope you obliterate it next time like ChaosMuppetPE.


----------



## Kage

So Colorado hasn't gotten the results back to NCEES and it isn't on the NCEES Portal, but they have updated their licenses!

You can check here to see if you are a registered PE!

https://apps.colorado.gov/dora/licensing/Lookup/LicenseLookup.aspx


----------



## TheBigGuy

SE-wishes said:


> Buildings, not even sure how I could improve. I feel like I basically know everything backwards and forwards


Could be as simple as just retaking the test well rested.  I went into vertical last fall with high confidence but failed hard.  I then passed it quite easily with only a week of studying (the rest of the time was devoted to lateral) in the spring.


----------



## mikesltj23

Well, that was interesting.  Got my results, and I got wrecked (to the point I was thinking NCEES even screwed up my results).  Lol each time I've though I've done so much better and I kept getting worse.  Oh well, no SE in my future I guess since my Vertical expired with this test.  I can live with that.  Best of luck to the rest of you!


----------



## mikesltj23

I'm legitimately very confused.  I must be incredibly delusional, because I thought I did well except for running out of time on the 4th question.  This (in my head) was a matter of U vs IR on the last problem.  And I'm looking at these results dumbfounded.  Like these couldn't be my results.  The only thing I can think of for the morning is that I missed a bubble and proceeded to bubble in the wrong order for too long.  But that doesn't explain the afternoon disaster.  Hoping that they accidentally reported someone else's score on my NCEES page, but I guess that's incredibly unlikely.  I think I'm more upset with how delusional I must be than the actual result.


----------



## User1

mikesltj23 said:


> I'm legitimately very confused.  I must be incredibly delusional, because I thought I did well except for running out of time on the 4th question.  This (in my head) was a matter of U vs IR on the last problem.  And I'm looking at these results dumbfounded.  Like these couldn't be my results.  The only thing I can think of for the morning is that I missed a bubble and proceeded to bubble in the wrong order for too long.  But that doesn't explain the afternoon disaster.  Hoping that they accidentally reported someone else's score on my NCEES page, but I guess that's incredibly unlikely.  I think I'm more upset with how delusional I must be than the actual result.


mine are insanely terrible esp compared to my last try as well. but i'm not going to dwell on it. moving on starting this weekend. guess i'm packing practice problems for vacation..


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> I'm legitimately very confused.  I must be incredibly delusional, because I thought I did well except for running out of time on the 4th question.  This (in my head) was a matter of U vs IR on the last problem.  And I'm looking at these results dumbfounded.  Like these couldn't be my results.  The only thing I can think of for the morning is that I missed a bubble and proceeded to bubble in the wrong order for too long.  But that doesn't explain the afternoon disaster.  Hoping that they accidentally reported someone else's score on my NCEES page, but I guess that's incredibly unlikely.  I think I'm more upset with how delusional I must be than the actual result.


I’m afraid it may not be as incredibly unlikely as they want you to think. The world may never know though.


----------



## mikesltj23

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I’m afraid it may not be as incredibly unlikely as they want you to think. The world may never know though.


I emailed them, but don't feel like spending $75 just to confirm I'm foolish.  This test has just given me severe impostor syndrome.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> I emailed them, but don't feel like spending $75 just to confirm I'm foolish.  This test has just given me severe impostor syndrome.


You can’t confirm anything. That’s the point. You’re always having to take someone’s word. I hope it’s legit, but there is ALWAYS doubt when you operate behind a veil of secrecy.


----------



## Titleistguy

Chaos, 

I haven't always agreed with you but I sincerely hope you're able to make changes and add transparency to this.  

As I reflect on my scores despite failing I'm at peace with not passing, what is killing me is that my worst afternoon score was on my hands Down strongest topic and I'm just annoyed that I can't see a solution and learn from my mistakes. 

I can understand why maybe they cant just publish MC questions bc they would effectively no longer be able to use them...but for the essays since there is basically an infinite amount of scenarios they can make it would be nice to get solutions for those... especially after spending a G to take the thing.  

So as you gather ideas for your crusade into that bureaucracy that is my one wish list item that maybe you can fight for.


----------



## mikesltj23

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> You can’t confirm anything. That’s the point. You’re always having to take someone’s word. I hope it’s legit, but there is ALWAYS doubt when you operate behind a veil of secrecy.


I'm hoping that the score reported was inadvertently someone else's. To be clear, this is my worst showing by far per the results. 20/40 and IIUU. I walked out of that test confident on probably 26 questions of the AM. CONFIDENT. And the afternoon I thought I had 2 to 3 As and worst case 1 U that would fail me if graded as a U. But I was encouraged by the rest. So the fact that not only did I not get even close to 26 but 50% has me baffled because that 50% would include a few correct guesses I would assume. 

Honestly I'm either the most delusional test taker ever or it just wasn't my test that I'm looking at the scores for. If I saw like 25 or 26, fine, but 20? I'm just not convinced it was my test the more I think about I. And I realize how ridiculous I sound.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> I'm hoping that the score reported was inadvertently someone else's. To be clear, this is my worst showing by far per the results. 20/40 and IIUU. I walked out of that test confident on probably 26 questions of the AM. CONFIDENT. And the afternoon I thought I had 2 to 3 As and worst case 1 U that would fail me if graded as a U. But I was encouraged by the rest. So the fact that not only did I not get even close to 26 but 50% has me baffled because that 50% would include a few correct guesses I would assume.
> 
> Honestly I'm either the most delusional test taker ever or it just wasn't my test that I'm looking at the scores for. If I saw like 25 or 26, fine, but 20? I'm just not convinced it was my test the more I think about I. And I realize how ridiculous I sound.


Hah. I get it. I thought I had a 38/40 with AAAIR in April. I got a 23/40 with AAAIR. It still seems fishy to me too. I was certain it was almost statistically impossible for me to fail, but again, I have the worst luck in the universe. I could win the lottery and lose money.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> I'm hoping...


The best advice that I have is to take a course with AEI. After the course, you will KNOW the stuff. I wish I had taken the course before I ever attempted the exam, but I was told by older SEs that nonlinear analysis was not included. Color me stupid, I guess. I walked into it and received a swift kick to the ding ding.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

Titleistguy said:


> Chaos,
> 
> I haven't always agreed with you but I sincerely hope you're able to make changes and add transparency to this.
> 
> As I reflect on my scores despite failing I'm at peace with not passing, what is killing me is that my worst afternoon score was on my hands Down strongest topic and I'm just annoyed that I can't see a solution and learn from my mistakes.
> 
> I can understand why maybe they cant just publish MC questions bc they would effectively no longer be able to use them...but for the essays since there is basically an infinite amount of scenarios they can make it would be nice to get solutions for those... especially after spending a G to take the thing.
> 
> So as you gather ideas for your crusade into that bureaucracy that is my one wish list item that maybe you can fight for.


I troll, but I'd like to think I'm pretty fair when I'm being serious. If I wrote a manifesto about what I would like to see happen, you'd no doubt at least agree with the logic. I'll do my best and at least get some face time with a few officials, but I need someone to lend me some luck to get an appointment for the board. Worst case scenario, I'll speed up the application process for Georgia if I get an appointment. It's currently abysmal.

As far as publishing the questions, I get that. I still don't understand why you couldn't pay a fee to see the exam after grading though. After all, you've already seen the exam. It seems like this would be another revenue stream for NCEES and this process would actually allow engineers to learn from their mistakes. I know I would've gladly paid it in the past.

Currently, my best guess is that you must undergo some illuminati blood ritual to be involved with the exams after grading. If you guys never hear from me again, I guess you'll know what happened.


----------



## JP87

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> The best advice that I have is to take a course with AEI. After the course, you will KNOW the stuff. I wish I had taken the course before I ever attempted the exam, but I was told by older SEs that nonlinear analysis was not included. Color me stupid, I guess. I walked into it and received a swift kick to the ding ding.


Chaos, is the AEI course realistic of the type of problems we get on the real exam? I took the PPI class for Vertical and Lateral before this Oct. 2019 exam and the homework problems (albeit very detailed) were completely unrealistic to the kind of questions I would get on the exam. I'd like to give AEI a shot, but not if it's the same as the PPI course.


----------



## STR_BR

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> I still don't understand why you couldn't pay a fee to see the exam after grading though. After all, you've already seen the exam.


I completely agree with you, ChaosMuppetPE.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

JP87 said:


> Chaos, is the AEI course realistic of the type of problems we get on the real exam? I took the PPI class for Vertical and Lateral before this Oct. 2019 exam and the homework problems (albeit very detailed) were completely unrealistic to the kind of questions I would get on the exam. I'd like to give AEI a shot, but not if it's the same as the PPI course.


AEI is very close to exam content. Further, they actually break the material down and teach it to you rather than teach specifically to the test. I can't say enough good things about the course. In my opinion, $1150 for a near guaranteed pass is much better than struggling for a few attempts to figure out the material on your own. If you have further questions, I'll give you one of the instructor's contacts via PM.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

STR_BR said:


> I completely agree with you, ChaosMuppetPE.


Just with the seeing the exam part, or with the Illuminati blood  ritual?


----------



## JP87

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> AEI is very close to exam content. Further, they actually break the material down and teach it to you rather than teach specifically to the test. I can't say enough good things about the course. In my opinion, $1150 for a near guaranteed pass is much better than struggling for a few attempts to figure out the material on your own. If you have further questions, I'll give you one of the instructor's contacts via PM.


Yes please, I'd appreciate it.

This Oct. 2019 cycle was my first time taking the SE and seeing those "unacceptables" was purely soul crushing.


----------



## JP87

mikesltj23 said:


> I'm legitimately very confused.  I must be incredibly delusional, because I thought I did well except for running out of time on the 4th question.  This (in my head) was a matter of U vs IR on the last problem.  And I'm looking at these results dumbfounded.  Like these couldn't be my results.  The only thing I can think of for the morning is that I missed a bubble and proceeded to bubble in the wrong order for too long.  But that doesn't explain the afternoon disaster.  Hoping that they accidentally reported someone else's score on my NCEES page, but I guess that's incredibly unlikely.  I think I'm more upset with how delusional I must be than the actual result.


I feel the exact same! It doesn't feel like my results are correct. I don't doubt that I possibly failed - I'm not debating that, but my results were definitely not a reflection of the exam that I remember taking. I somehow received a "IR" for Steel but "Acceptable" for Wood...Steel is my strongest, and wood I've only done a very little amount of even in industry. 

I decided to actually try the $75 manual verification - I don't think it's gonna change anything, but I can't shake that feeling of "somethings wrong here"...and Damnit, I need closure! LOL.

I'll let you know what happens if it helps.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

JP87 said:


> Yes please, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> This Oct. 2019 cycle was my first time taking the SE and seeing those "unacceptables" was purely soul crushing.


Sent. I understand the soul crushing nature of the "unacceptables." If you run into a snag, PM me and I'll see if I can help you out of it.


----------



## STR_BR

ChaosMuppetPE said:


> Just with the seeing the exam part, or with the Illuminati blood  ritual?


LOL. With the exam part for sure, but you will have to confirm on the latter once you are in! Definitely possible.


----------



## mikesltj23

JP87 said:


> I feel the exact same! It doesn't feel like my results are correct. I don't doubt that I possibly failed - I'm not debating that, but my results were definitely not a reflection of the exam that I remember taking. I somehow received a "IR" for Steel but "Acceptable" for Wood...Steel is my strongest, and wood I've only done a very little amount of even in industry.
> 
> I decided to actually try the $75 manual verification - I don't think it's gonna change anything, but I can't shake that feeling of "somethings wrong here"...and Damnit, I need closure! LOL.
> 
> I'll let you know what happens if it helps.


Thanks, JP! I emailed them because I couldn't shake it. I may do it as well but I feel it's more geared towards manually checking your own results and I was hoping the wires were just crossed since I did bad on both sessions and definitely didn't have that vibe during the test.


----------



## JP87

mikesltj23 said:


> Thanks, JP! I emailed them because I couldn't shake it. I may do it as well but I feel it's more geared towards manually checking your own results and I was hoping the wires were just crossed since I did bad on both sessions and definitely didn't have that vibe during the test.


Yea, It did say in the information section that it won't change your afternoon score so if you know you did poorly there, then there's no point in doing.


----------



## mikesltj23

JP87 said:


> Yea, It did say in the information section that it won't change your afternoon score so if you know you did poorly there, then there's no point in doing.


Exactly, which is why my only hope is that I was incorrectly given someone else's test results, as unlikely as that may be.  I don't know if that ever happens, but for some reason I've convinced myself it did.  Delusional!


----------



## Nathan55

mikesltj23 said:


> Well, that was interesting.  Got my results, and I got wrecked (to the point I was thinking NCEES even screwed up my results).  Lol each time I've though I've done so much better and I kept getting worse.  Oh well, no SE in my future I guess since my Vertical expired with this test.  I can live with that.  Best of luck to the rest of you!


My condolences on the expiration of the vertical test. That is soul crushing. Maybe take some time off and focus on passing lateral, knowing that vertical is at least possible? Also, the CBT conversion may lessen people's pain. If the results are available withing a couple of weeks, and the test is offered more often...that would be a game changer. I also like David Connor's idea of having NCEES track your "acceptables" on certain types of problems. You should be able to pass Steel and concrete in one administration, and then the other materials in another.


----------



## mikesltj23

They got back to me and assured me my results are my own.  I still don't know what to think about that.  I guess I really am that delusional.  Honestly, I started this process 5 years ago with the thought I would hopefully either pass both or fail both and be done.  Passing one forced me to take a 2nd try.  Then with expiration close, I decided one last ditch effort was worth it for lateral.  I think the soul crushing part is really just the fact that I did much worse this time, yet I came out feeling much more confident.  The test has very little bearing on my future, but I'm debating between retrying both now and taking the courses, or just abandoning ship.  Probably going to do the latter due to the lack of impact, but I guess I'm just pissed with my latest result lol.


----------



## bigirishman

mikesltj23 said:


> They got back to me and assured me my results are my own.  I still don't know what to think about that.  I guess I really am that delusional.  Honestly, I started this process 5 years ago with the thought I would hopefully either pass both or fail both and be done.  Passing one forced me to take a 2nd try.  Then with expiration close, I decided one last ditch effort was worth it for lateral.  I think the soul crushing part is really just the fact that I did much worse this time, yet I came out feeling much more confident.  The test has very little bearing on my future, but I'm debating between retrying both now and taking the courses, or just abandoning ship.  Probably going to do the latter due to the lack of impact, but I guess I'm just pissed with my latest result lol.


Sorry it worked out like this.  It took me 3 tries to pass lateral, and I studied a lot for my second try.  After finishing try 2 I walked out super confident, just to find out I did worse than the first try (when I barely studied).  I took EET and almost every class had a DOH! moment where I realized how I messed up a question from try 2.  After try 3 I finished the morning part of the exam about 30min early (including going back and checking a few I wasn't super confident on).  It kind of dawned on me how misplaced my confidence was on try 2.  One thing to note was I typically run through an exam answering all the "easy" questions on my first pass.  On my 3rd try I answered 38 questions in my first pass.  However I got to the end and realized that when I skipped a question I forgot to skip the bubble, so about half my answers were bubbled one question off.  If I were more pressed for time and skipped more on my first go that may have completely screwed me.  Luckily I caught the mistake and fixed it relatively "cleanly" on the scantron.

Unfortunately I can't comment much on the afternoon.  I took Bridge and in the Vertical and 3 Laterals I thought all the afternoon questions were pretty straightforward.  I will note that for EET's bridge class they went through the types of afternoon problems in such depth that on my 3rd go all I really had to do was find the closest example problem in the EET binder and follow nearly verbatim.  Not sure on whether or not the buildings is similar, but it helped me finish the afternoon super fast.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> They got back to me and assured me my results are my own.  I still don't know what to think about that.  I guess I really am that delusional.  Honestly, I started this process 5 years ago with the thought I would hopefully either pass both or fail both and be done.  Passing one forced me to take a 2nd try.  Then with expiration close, I decided one last ditch effort was worth it for lateral.  I think the soul crushing part is really just the fact that I did much worse this time, yet I came out feeling much more confident.  The test has very little bearing on my future, but I'm debating between retrying both now and taking the courses, or just abandoning ship.  Probably going to do the latter due to the lack of impact, but I guess I'm just pissed with my latest result lol.


The only thing I can say is that you could end up in my position not being grandfathered. I had the same mentality. I thought I was done. Next thing you know, I was not done. But now I finally am done for the time being, but I bet the future is not done letting me be done.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

@kevo_55 what are the silver stars beneath the names symbolizing?


----------



## kevo_55

^^ That you're special. (And also gave some $$$ to EB.)


----------



## mikesltj23

bigirishman said:


> Sorry it worked out like this.  It took me 3 tries to pass lateral, and I studied a lot for my second try.  After finishing try 2 I walked out super confident, just to find out I did worse than the first try (when I barely studied).  I took EET and almost every class had a DOH! moment where I realized how I messed up a question from try 2.  After try 3 I finished the morning part of the exam about 30min early (including going back and checking a few I wasn't super confident on).  It kind of dawned on me how misplaced my confidence was on try 2.  One thing to note was I typically run through an exam answering all the "easy" questions on my first pass.  On my 3rd try I answered 38 questions in my first pass.  However I got to the end and realized that when I skipped a question I forgot to skip the bubble, so about half my answers were bubbled one question off.  If I were more pressed for time and skipped more on my first go that may have completely screwed me.  Luckily I caught the mistake and fixed it relatively "cleanly" on the scantron.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't comment much on the afternoon.  I took Bridge and in the Vertical and 3 Laterals I thought all the afternoon questions were pretty straightforward.  I will note that for EET's bridge class they went through the types of afternoon problems in such depth that on my 3rd go all I really had to do was find the closest example problem in the EET binder and follow nearly verbatim.  Not sure on whether or not the buildings is similar, but it helped me finish the afternoon super fast.


I just keep going back and forth with NCEES.  "How can you not have a verification of the afternoon?  It does me no good to have the AM verified if I can't have the PM verified."

It could very well be exactly what you said where I am confident in my results but am missing little things.  So I've almost made it better for myself with my preparation to find the trick answers rather than the right answers.  But I guess I just can't shake the feeling that I was confident on minimum of high 20's in # of questions during the test and somehow came out with a 20/40, and confident on a couple afternoon, and didn't get a single A.  Something just seems amiss given my significantly greater comfort with the material and the actual test on the 3rd try (I was around 26/40 last time I took it).  It just doesn't feel right, so to have no recourse on at least confirming the results provided are my own bothers me.  Delusional or not, that seems crazy.  It should almost be like a coach's challenge in the NFL.  I pay X amount to get everything rechecked.  If I'm right, I get my money back lol.

I'm back and forth between just giving up, continuing to try to find some way for them to check my test, and just for some reason now going and retaking both after taking courses since I've put in so much effort.  Just sucks to retake vertical now, and having 5 year old kids and more going on in my career now since that first try 5 years ago doesn't help the cause.  I briefly went through some impostor syndrome last night and started researching other careers and real estate investing lol.  I'm all over the map after these shoddy results.


----------



## ChaosMuppetPE

mikesltj23 said:


> I just keep going back and forth with NCEES.  "How can you not have a verification of the afternoon?  It does me no good to have the AM verified if I can't have the PM verified."
> 
> It could very well be exactly what you said where I am confident in my results but am missing little things.  So I've almost made it better for myself with my preparation to find the trick answers rather than the right answers.  But I guess I just can't shake the feeling that I was confident on minimum of high 20's in # of questions during the test and somehow came out with a 20/40, and confident on a couple afternoon, and didn't get a single A.  Something just seems amiss given my significantly greater comfort with the material and the actual test on the 3rd try (I was around 26/40 last time I took it).  It just doesn't feel right, so to have no recourse on at least confirming the results provided are my own bothers me.  Delusional or not, that seems crazy.  It should almost be like a coach's challenge in the NFL.  I pay X amount to get everything rechecked.  If I'm right, I get my money back lol.
> 
> I'm back and forth between just giving up, continuing to try to find some way for them to check my test, and just for some reason now going and retaking both after taking courses since I've put in so much effort.  Just sucks to retake vertical now, and having 5 year old kids and more going on in my career now since that first try 5 years ago doesn't help the cause.  I briefly went through some impostor syndrome last night and started researching other careers and real estate investing lol.  I'm all over the map after these shoddy results.


I absolutely sympathize with you. I've been through the gamut with it. If you don't have someone close to you that is familiar with the content, the only solution is to take a course. I wouldn't have passed it without one simply because I didn't even really know what to look for. Seismic Design Category C makes you lazy I guess, but I've never seen anything above that and I generally do delegated design work anyway. To this day, I think it is stupid that I had to have an SE to do what I do, but I digress. &lt;-This is exactly why I'm shooting for a board appointment.

I KNOW how bad it sucks, but if you run through the course and do as the instructors ask, it'll all be over. AEI will teach you everything you need to know and you can put this to bed. Just look at yourself in the mirror, give yourself a swift kick in the arse, and hop right back on the horse. Don't get down on yourself about intellect, it's not about that. I'm well in MENSA category IQ, have near perfect academic credentials, and award winning mega-projects for huge companies and universities (Virgin, John Deere, and the University of Alabama to name a few). All that said, IT TOOK ME 5 tries for lateral. It is NOT about you. Taking this thing is like donning a blindfold, being spun around, and trying to pin the tail on the donkey. If you've never been exposed to the material, it's near impossible. It's just how it is.


----------



## SE-wishes

@mikesltj23 for any portion of the PM problems, did you by any chance provide a written description of steps for how to solve? Via review classes etc I was always under the impression you can obtain partial credit this way. However, this may not actually be true as I have become aware very recently!


----------



## Titleistguy

Here is the thing with writing steps/ outlining.... it works.

Both tests I thought I bombed 1 afternoon question,  concrete on vert and wood on lat...and ended up outlining most of them.  

Both tests I thought I crushed a question steel for both.  Gave lots of detail and fully answered (imo) all steps.

I got I on the two I thought I bombed....and U on the ones I thought I crushed....

Goes to show you the mind F of these and the value in outlining.


----------



## Nathan55

Titleistguy said:


> Here is the thing with writing steps/ outlining.... it works.
> 
> Both tests I thought I bombed 1 afternoon question,  concrete on vert and wood on lat...and ended up outlining most of them.
> 
> Both tests I thought I crushed a question steel for both.  Gave lots of detail and fully answered (imo) all steps.
> 
> I got I on the two I thought I bombed....and U on the ones I thought I crushed....
> 
> Goes to show you the mind F of these and the value in outlining.


I can also attest to nearly eschewing all actual calculations and getting an acceptable on an essay question. I have conversely done detailed and (what I felt were) accurate mathematical solutions for problems and felt really good about them, and gotten unacceptable. Additionally, my sources tell me that wrong citations/procedures get points deducted. This tells me the following:

1. The key to the afternoon is *procedure*. Follow the right one, and you're nearly guaranteed an "IR" or an "A".
2. Math is only semi-important. 
3. Present a *complete* solution. Don't miss checks...but this seems less important then item #1. A missed check/verification isn't as bad as using the wrong procedure.
4. Focus on the trick that is inherent in each question. Based on the data, 70% of people can't identify the tricks in the 4 afternoon problems if you're buildings.
5. Graders check if you are competent, that is, if you know what you're doing. It is objectively easier to say "someone doesn't know this" if you do the wrong thing, cite the wrong portion of the code, etc. It is far more difficult to do this if you use broad generalities in procedural list of steps. It will be easier to hide what you don't know in this fashion rather than a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. This isn't college.


----------



## mikesltj23

SE-wishes said:


> @mikesltj23 for any portion of the PM problems, did you by any chance provide a written description of steps for how to solve? Via review classes etc I was always under the impression you can obtain partial credit this way. However, this may not actually be true as I have become aware very recently!


Yes.  I actually thought I did WELL on 2 questions (acceptable), mediocre on 1 (A/IR), and outlined my steps on the 4th because I was running out of time (U/IR).  I THOUGHT I got a minimum of 26 or 27 questions (or had much confidence in them) before educated guesses on most and blind guesses on a couple.  So the thought for me really was that that 4th question was going to be the dealbreaker or that I did enough on that one to get through.  This was my 3rd time on lateral, and I never questioned the results the previous 2 times (around 26/40), just thought I had to study harder and do better...and I could have sworn I did.  Just the fact that I came out with more confidence that I got over the hump, and then came out with 0 acceptables on the PM and only 20/40 on the AM has me completely lost.  I was much better prepared this time around and did significantly worse despite my confidence during the test.  My first thought was how ridiculous I was to have thought I could have passed it.  My second thought was that I remember how I felt coming out of that, and something just seemed really off with those results.  And with no recourse to challenge it or have them recheck it, what's the point?  It's a black box that I'm just supposed to trust them they did their job and there's no glitches or errors on their end that may have misappropriated someone else's scores to me.

I acknowledge this whole time I just may be wholly delusional.  But I hate that there's literally nothing I can even do about it because it'd be special treatment to even check.  Even if I could do the AM verification, and it showed a gross error on their end, I can't challenge the PM.  And it's going to bother me to no end that I feel like I passed it, or at least came close to passing it, and this shows I've taken 10 steps back and would have to retake Vertical now if I wanted to try again.


----------



## mikesltj23

Screw it.  Maybe I'll take the courses, re-pass Vertical, finally pass Lateral, and be a better structural engineer as a result.  If only there's enough time in the day.


----------



## Duke

@mikesltj23

Worked through the 5 stages pretty quick there...


----------



## mikesltj23

Duke said:


> @mikesltj23
> 
> Worked through the 5 stages pretty quick there...


Lol I'm still in denial.  But it's an accepting denial.  And I think I've gone through more than 5 stages!


----------



## mikesltj23

You probably already think I'm crazy.  But just showing part of my frustration and confusion...is what it is I guess.  Gonna look into these classes and think about trying again.

Last time I took this (2015) with less confidence:




This test with more confidence:


----------



## User1

mikesltj23 said:


> You probably already think I'm crazy.  But just showing part of my frustration and confusion...is what it is I guess.  Gonna look into these classes and think about trying again.
> 
> Last time I took this (2015) with less confidence:
> 
> View attachment 15570
> 
> 
> This test with more confidence:
> 
> View attachment 15571


This is very similar to my comparison of the time before to this time. 

I HIGHLY recommend the AEI courses. Had I not had personal and professional obstacles in the way and I had committed the right amount of effort to doing the practice problems, I'm confident i would have passed. A coworker of mine passed both vertical and lateral on the first try by taking their courses and basically only bringing the references provided through AEI and the applicable codes to the exam. AEI is formerly EET.


----------



## Titleistguy

mikesltj23 said:


> Screw it.  Maybe I'll take the courses, re-pass Vertical, finally pass Lateral, and be a better structural engineer as a result.  If only there's enough time in the day.


Mike,

I don't know you or your life or your situation, so let me qualify what I'm about to say with that.  Your situation is a tough one, especially with the expiration of your vertical results.  That said, I feel like you would likely regret it for a very long time if you didn't see this thing through.  You've come this far, why quit now?  You're pot committed, and to be perfectly honest, at this point you owe it to yourself to see it through.  I'll go one further and say you owe it to the profession.  You owe it to the profession because based on all of your hard work and effort thus far, you'll be a goddamn good SE when you do pass.  Whereas if you didn't press on, frankly, it would be a disservice to anyone that would otherwise benefit from your knowledge (and stamp) had you seen it through. 

I failed both of my tests, it sucks, and so I take that feeling compound it by around 100 and that is maybe where you're at.  But , not to be overly reductive, whatya gonna do?  You get up, you dust yourself off, and you get to work.  You'll never lose the knowledge you've gained thus far, and your day will come.  

I like to read this when needing inspiration: 

_"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."  -__Theodore Roosevelt_


----------



## SE-wishes

mikesltj23 said:


> You probably already think I'm crazy.  But just showing part of my frustration and confusion...is what it is I guess.  Gonna look into these classes and think about trying again.
> 
> Last time I took this (2015) with less confidence:
> 
> View attachment 15570
> 
> 
> This test with more confidence:
> 
> View attachment 15571


Since we’re sharing results, here are mine:

spring 2018: 20/40, A, A,IR,IR

fall 2018: 28/40, A, A, IR, U

fall 2019: 36/40, A, IR, U, U

How in the ____ does one improve dramatically and perfectly linearly in the AM while simultaneously get worse linearly in PM. There is simply no logic. The subjects are the same, I’m not gaining less experience and I have taken review classes.


----------



## TheLoneStarEngineer

Nathan55 said:


> I can also attest to nearly eschewing all actual calculations and getting an acceptable on an essay question. I have conversely done detailed and (what I felt were) accurate mathematical solutions for problems and felt really good about them, and gotten unacceptable. Additionally, my sources tell me that wrong citations/procedures get points deducted. This tells me the following:
> 
> 1. The key to the afternoon is *procedure*. Follow the right one, and you're nearly guaranteed an "IR" or an "A".
> 2. Math is only semi-important.
> 3. Present a *complete* solution. Don't miss checks...but this seems less important then item #1. A missed check/verification isn't as bad as using the wrong procedure.
> 4. Focus on the trick that is inherent in each question. Based on the data, 70% of people can't identify the tricks in the 4 afternoon problems if you're buildings.
> 5. Graders check if you are competent, that is, if you know what you're doing. It is objectively easier to say "someone doesn't know this" if you do the wrong thing, cite the wrong portion of the code, etc. It is far more difficult to do this if you use broad generalities in procedural list of steps. It will be easier to hide what you don't know in this fashion rather than a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. This isn't college.


I agree with this as well. Last time I took the test in April 2019, I received an A, A, IR, U on the lateral afternoon. I wrote the procedure and applicable code references for 50% of a problem and received an IR. Had to do the same on one half of another problem but couldn't note down the code references due to time and received an unacceptable. I think there is a good amount of credit for _*Correct procedure, Code references and Completeness*_ (3 C's). I also listed what information the questions did not provide for other applicable code checks that were necessary and made a reasonable assumption to at least make sure I am covered in case those were the tricks the graders expected examine's to identify. I also provided alternate solutions in case the assumptions I made based on the missing information was something the graders might not be looking for/did not care (This took a lot of time I didn't have in my first try). I did not miss any opportunity to throw in sketches to supplement my solutions even though they were not required by the problem statement.

I work in a consulting firm where I have to deal with a variety of project types and design on a daily basis. Had quite a few projects in California with SDC D (SCBF, SMF, Wood, Special Concrete and masonry shear walls) within the last year which have helped a lot in preparing for this exam.


----------



## GTTrekkie

I wanted to chime in a say that I completely echo taking the EET/AEI course. I did, however, fail both portions even after taking the courses but I admit that I did not put in the practice time... One book that really helped me for the lateral concrete was *Design and Detailing of Low Rise Concrete Buildings* through CRSI (I'm convinced I wouldn't have passed if I didn't have this to help me study)...: http://resources.crsi.org/resources/design-and-detailing-of-low-rise-reinforced-concrete-buildings1/


----------



## Titleistguy

That book is written by David Fanella and is outstanding. His concrete textbook is even better.  Frankly the best concrete seismic resource in my opinion you can get.  Its the best organization of the detailing and design requirements that I've seen.


----------



## SE-wishes

I will have to look into that book. I am a big fan of the ACI Concrete Design Handbooks, the examples are fantastic. They are the main reason I got A for the first two attempts ..... still undecided on moving forward. 

Am very seriously thinking about trying to start a career writing children’s books. Reading to my two feels far more rewarding than this has up to the present.


----------



## Stewie

Titleistguy said:


> That book is written by David Fanella and is outstanding. His concrete textbook is even better.  Frankly the best concrete seismic resource in my opinion you can get.  Its the best organization of the detailing and design requirements that I've seen.


which book? Reinforced Concrete Structures: Analysis and Design, Second Edition?


----------



## User1

That book is so expensive but I might buy it.


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## JP87

Signed up today for the AEI courses. Gonna try and actually put in 100% effort on the example problems...The feeling in my stomach I got when I saw those bright red and white "Unacceptable" on my NCEES dashboard will keep me motivated...


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## Titleistguy

That book is worth the money.

Fanella authors a few documents that are really good.  One on structural loads and some older PCA stuff.  

His concrete book is the 2nd edition...and buddy of mine from class got it at my recommendation (SK) and he would likely agree that it was great.  One of the only things that I used outside of AEI notes.


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## MR_E30

I'll add my experience to this thread as well, given that the 'Unacceptable' I received for Vert- Buildings has worn off. Results: 31/40 IR IR IR IR

I will mimic others in this thread with the following statement:

I do 98% wood design in my day to day engineering, and the afternoon wood problem was like performing basic arithmetic to me. I could literally envision every single table, equation, and page of the codes that was required to answer the problem. I was in test taking heaven. I referenced every single piece of info that was used, with ~19 minutes to spare (41 mins to answer the question).

When it came to the concrete problem, I was in the absolute dark. I never do sophisticated concrete design. I had a 15% idea of what to do, but went through my procedures and notes and plugged away, attempting to tell a story. I referenced a few things, but not many.

And I end up with the same results for those two questions. That is upsetting/surprising to me.

This was my first attempt at any professional licensure (FE/EIT excluded, though I suppose that isn't a 'professional' title). I work in a very niche industry that uses a niche material, but I figured with diligent studying (~400 hours) I could overcome my weaknesses, but that wasn't the case. I honestly expected to have an incredibly difficult time, as I went to college and received a BSME, so I have never even taken a civil class. The main point that upset me was the fact that never before in my life have I ever failed at something that I legitimately focused on and worked diligently towards. I'm not the worlds best person, but I am certainly no slouch. That just goes to show you how difficult this test is, and how 'next level' of a structural engineer that you need to be. A level that I have, for the time being, not been able to reach.

I am going to tackle the PE Civil: Structural Depth in April instead of retaking the SE, as I need a license to start my firm. I currently work for a manufacturer (after working for an SE firm for a couple of years) as their lone engineer, so having a license is the paramount objective, and a PE will do what I need it to do to get things started. I will be back to obtain the SE designation, but it is not this cycle. Perhaps OCT 2020 as I am confident with how 'well' I did on this exam that the PE will be a cakewalk, though I will still study my butt off for it.

Thankfully I prepared and began the testing process early, as I cannot receive a license until June 2020 anyways. So no time is lost, just a slight bruise to the psyche. But there has been a tremendous amount of knowledge accrued and stored in my brain, already making me better at my job.

To everyone who passed, congratulations! To those who did not, we will chat with each other again and share in victory in time to come.


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## Nebraskangineer

MR_E30 said:


> I do 98% wood design in my day to day engineering,


I was not aware such engineers existed, but then again I'm a bridge guy.


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## MR_E30

Nebraskangineer said:


> I was not aware such engineers existed, but then again I'm a bridge guy.


Neither was I!


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## Baggu

IL is killing me with the wait.


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## mikesltj23

MR_E30 said:


> I'll add my experience to this thread as well, given that the 'Unacceptable' I received for Vert- Buildings has worn off. Results: 31/40 IR IR IR IR
> 
> I will mimic others in this thread with the following statement:
> 
> I do 98% wood design in my day to day engineering, and the afternoon wood problem was like performing basic arithmetic to me. I could literally envision every single table, equation, and page of the codes that was required to answer the problem. I was in test taking heaven. I referenced every single piece of info that was used, with ~19 minutes to spare (41 mins to answer the question).
> 
> When it came to the concrete problem, I was in the absolute dark. I never do sophisticated concrete design. I had a 15% idea of what to do, but went through my procedures and notes and plugged away, attempting to tell a story. I referenced a few things, but not many.
> 
> And I end up with the same results for those two questions. That is upsetting/surprising to me.
> 
> This was my first attempt at any professional licensure (FE/EIT excluded, though I suppose that isn't a 'professional' title). I work in a very niche industry that uses a niche material, but I figured with diligent studying (~400 hours) I could overcome my weaknesses, but that wasn't the case. I honestly expected to have an incredibly difficult time, as I went to college and received a BSME, so I have never even taken a civil class. The main point that upset me was the fact that never before in my life have I ever failed at something that I legitimately focused on and worked diligently towards. I'm not the worlds best person, but I am certainly no slouch. That just goes to show you how difficult this test is, and how 'next level' of a structural engineer that you need to be. A level that I have, for the time being, not been able to reach.
> 
> I am going to tackle the PE Civil: Structural Depth in April instead of retaking the SE, as I need a license to start my firm. I currently work for a manufacturer (after working for an SE firm for a couple of years) as their lone engineer, so having a license is the paramount objective, and a PE will do what I need it to do to get things started. I will be back to obtain the SE designation, but it is not this cycle. Perhaps OCT 2020 as I am confident with how 'well' I did on this exam that the PE will be a cakewalk, though I will still study my butt off for it.
> 
> Thankfully I prepared and began the testing process early, as I cannot receive a license until June 2020 anyways. So no time is lost, just a slight bruise to the psyche. But there has been a tremendous amount of knowledge accrued and stored in my brain, already making me better at my job.
> 
> To everyone who passed, congratulations! To those who did not, we will chat with each other again and share in victory in time to come.


This is amazing to me.  You do wood design all day, you felt you nailed the section (no pun intended), and you got an IR.  And absolutely no recourse to even challenge the results if you felt it worthwhile to.  It's mind-boggling.  I swore I would be done now that my 5 year vertical expired.  And then decided yesterday that I'm just going to take the classes and take both again, but comments like yours make me question whether I really want to lol.


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## MR_E30

mikesltj23 said:


> This is amazing to me.  You do wood design all day, you felt you nailed the section (no pun intended), and you got an IR.  And absolutely no recourse to even challenge the results if you felt it worthwhile to.  It's mind-boggling.  I swore I would be done now that my 5 year vertical expired.  And then decided yesterday that I'm just going to take the classes and take both again, but comments like yours make me question whether I really want to lol.


I wouldn't let my lone review sway you one way or the other, but that is the truth of the matter in its entirety. Maybe I missed some wood check because I 'hurried' along so that I would have extra time for the more complex concrete problem, but I was literally on cloud nine with the afternoon wood problem. It may not have been 'perfect' but 100% an Acceptable.


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## STR_BR

MR_E30 said:


> I am going to tackle the PE Civil: Structural Depth in April instead of retaking the SE, as I need a license to start my firm. I currently work for a manufacturer (after working for an SE firm for a couple of years) as their lone engineer, so having a license is the paramount objective, and a PE will do what I need it to do to get things started. I will be back to obtain the SE designation, but it is not this cycle. Perhaps OCT 2020 as I am confident with how 'well' I did on this exam that the PE will be a cakewalk, though I will still study my butt off for it.


First of all, MR_E30, that is amazing with your background to be wanting to go this far. Now, for the PE, it may still be a struggle as you do not have the Civil background from your undergrad time. I just say that, because although the PE Civil: Structural Depth is indeed very simple in my opinion, fellow coworkers that have failed only failed due to the morning, as you will need to study some water resources and transportation stuff. Honestly, I do not know how that would look like for you since you were not exposed to any of those classes back in undergrad. However, I think the CERM is concise enough to cover those topics. When I took it it was just a matter of  tabbing those sections. I mean the morning is basically 70% Structural, Geotech and Construction and for a Structural Engineer that is something we deal with it in a daily basis especially if you do a lot of foundation design, so I think the morning favors Civil Structurals.

Anyways, just wanted to give you the heads up, I am sure you know all this. I wish you the best, and please, keep going and would love to see you posting here on EB the day you pass the SE Exams! Best of luck!


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## MR_E30

STR_BR said:


> First of all, MR_E30, that is amazing with your background to be wanting to go this far. Now, for the PE, it may still be a struggle as you do not have the Civil background from your undergrad time. I just say that, because although the PE Civil: Structural Depth is indeed very simple in my opinion, fellow coworkers that have failed only failed due to the morning, as you will need to study some water resources and transportation stuff. Honestly, I do not know how that would look like for you since you were not exposed to any of those classes back in undergrad. However, I think the CERM is concise enough to cover those topics. When I took it it was just a matter of  tabbing those sections. I mean the morning is basically 70% Structural, Geotech and Construction and for a Structural Engineer that is something we deal with it in a daily basis especially if you do a lot of foundation design, so I think the morning favors Civil Structurals.
> 
> Anyways, just wanted to give you the heads up, I am sure you know all this. I wish you the best, and please, keep going and would love to see you posting here on EB the day you pass the SE Exams! Best of luck!


Thanks mate!

I am beginning the process of gathering info surrounding the PE Civil: Structural Depth exam from various parts of EB and am coming up with a game plan. Glad to hear about the Geotech (work directly with them frequently) and Construction (actually spend my weekends building house related stuff with my hands and one of my mentors is a GC).

I appreciate the heads up and will make sure I spend quality time on the breadth section of the exam!


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## Rebel Engineer

Baggu said:


> IL is killing me with the wait.


I agree, still waiting on Florida myself...


----------



## Dzsan

I can't believe some states haven't received their results yet... I would riot! (JOKE)


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## Reverse Polish

Hi all,  

Been lurking for about the past year.  Also waiting on Illinois/CTS.  Thought I would  join this merry anxiety/depression support group.

Felt reasonably confident for seven weeks.  Stomach dropped into a pit on Monday, and been living on the edge of my dupa since.  Still having nightmares about two PM problems in particular. 

In the meantime, I'm trying to convince myself there's no way I passed, so as to avoid letdown (in the case of any false sense of security I may have enjoyed).  Good thing I've had plenty of humbling experiences in my career to prepare me for this psychological beatdown.  

Crossing my fingers.


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## Gator314

Rebel Engineer said:


> I agree, still waiting on Florida myself...


Rebel, did you get your results? Florida's just came through on my end.


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## Dzsan

https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/


They just updated the overall percentages for OCT pass rates.

Outliers:

Repeat takers on Vertical buildings... 

Repeat takes on Lateral bridges!


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## thedaywa1ker

Sweet baby jesus more than 80% of repeat vertical buildings failed?? Makes me glad that I skipped a cycle before retaking.  Hopefully they make some adjustments for April, if they even care.


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## Reverse Polish

Dzsan said:


> https://ncees.org/engineering/pe-structural/View attachment 15587




This is nausea-inducing.  The pass rates support my suspicion that the Practice Exam was absolutely useless in preparing for the PM.

Abandon hope, (most of) ye who enter....


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## Rebel Engineer

Gator314 said:


> Rebel, did you get your results? Florida's just came through on my end.


Yep, they came through alright. I am with the majority, and failed both parts. I'll take it again next year. Though this time, one at a time.


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## jmm7200

Wow....I think NCEES finally realized that the lateral bridges has been horrible for so long that they drastically increased the passing cut score!   Bridge people get screwed with this exam, as 75% of the AM is building focused.


----------



## Duke

Illinois/CTS is really beginning to frusturate me. How long does it take to update their own files with Pass/Unacceptable? Do any other IL ppl out there understand the relationship between the SE board and CTS and/or the reasons for the delayed release?


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## jmm7200

@Duke  I used to understand that whole thing, which is part of the reason why I stopped taking the test in that dump hotel in Hillside and drove up to Milwaukee.  Wisconsin released their results on Tuesday morning.


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## TowersNBridges

IL people.  I logged into my CTS account and it shows your pass/fail status!


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## Baggu

Thank you @TowersNBridges Just checked my CTS account.

Failed them both. Time to screw structural engineering and move to project management


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## Reverse Polish

TowersNBridges said:


> IL people.  I logged into my CTS account and it shows your pass/fail status!


Somewhat surprisingly passed both exams.  What a relief.  

Huge thanks to everyone who has been posting on this forum.  Your insights and experiences helped me establish a course of successful study.  Congratulations to those of you who still persist--you are making yourselves better engineers, which we desperately need.  I recall a quote from a sub-2:30 marathoner who stated that his heroes are not the people who finish first, but the people who are still on the course after 4 hours and persevering.  Chin up, and keep working diligently both in the office and in your studies.  You owe it to yourself and your profession!  Remember--if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.


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## Putz63304

I did not pass the one exam I re-took, which sucked, but then I noticed yesterday that the pass rate for that exam was 18% among repeat takers!!!

Can someone explain to me what happened - 18% strikes me as a stupidly low pass rate, and for the amount of time, effort, and money that this exam calls for it seems more than a little unfair - it feels like I basically broke myself mentally and emotionally so I could take an un-beatable test...


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## David Connor SE

Putz63304 said:


> I did not pass the one exam I re-took, which sucked, but then I noticed yesterday that the pass rate for that exam was 18% among repeat takers!!!
> 
> Can someone explain to me what happened - 18% strikes me as a stupidly low pass rate, and for the amount of time, effort, and money that this exam calls for it seems more than a little unfair - it feels like I basically broke myself mentally and emotionally so I could take an un-beatable test...


Yeah, the pass rate for repeat takers tends to hover around 25%.  Some have been higher, some lower.  The low pass rates is basically the crux of why this forum exists.  To try to help everyone to pass this exam.  But yes, the overall pass rate seems to be in the 30-40% range.  It's not an un-beatable exam, but it is the _most difficult_ of all the engineering licensure exams.


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## Saluki21

SE-wishes......Could you help me out with studying for the morning of the Lateral exam? I'm a bridge guy and the morning is just killing me and it appears that you have it locked down! I would really appreciate it if you would be willing to share your knowledge!


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## SoCalPE

Hello Everyone,

My first post here, so I chatted with NCEES and they said that there is no change in exam specs (codes). She said April 2020 will be per the same specs (codes) as October 2019?

Has anyone else asked this question? Do they typically wait a cycle before enforcing the latest codes in the exams?

On a side note, since most people shared their results, Here is mine (First attempt at both lateral/gravity)

Gravity - Acceptable

Lateral: AM - 28/40, PM - U, A, A, IR. 

I am intending to take lateral in April again.


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## ChaosMuppetPE

SoCalPE said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> My first post here, so I chatted with NCEES and they said that there is no change in exam specs (codes). She said April 2020 will be per the same specs (codes) as October 2019?
> 
> Has anyone else asked this question? Do they typically wait a cycle before enforcing the latest codes in the exams?
> 
> On a side note, since most people shared their results, Here is mine (First attempt at both lateral/gravity)
> 
> Gravity - Acceptable
> 
> Lateral: AM - 28/40, PM - U, A, A, IR.
> 
> I am intending to take lateral in April again.


In my experience, they typically run one full code cycle behind.


----------



## STR_BR

SoCalPE said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> My first post here, so I chatted with NCEES and they said that there is no change in exam specs (codes). She said April 2020 will be per the same specs (codes) as October 2019?
> 
> Has anyone else asked this question? Do they typically wait a cycle before enforcing the latest codes in the exams?
> 
> On a side note, since most people shared their results, Here is mine (First attempt at both lateral/gravity)
> 
> Gravity - Acceptable
> 
> Lateral: AM - 28/40, PM - U, A, A, IR.
> 
> I am intending to take lateral in April again.


Yes, the codes are not changing, (confirmed by NCEES) and usually they change it during the April cycle, so my guess is that it will remain the same util October 2020, and I think inevitably they will switch to IBC 2018 and everything that relates to it.


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## SoCalPE

STR_BR said:


> Yes, the codes are not changing, (confirmed by NCEES) and usually they change it during the April cycle, so my guess is that it will remain the same util October 2020, and I think inevitably they will switch to IBC 2018 and everything that relates to it.


Thanks! That helps, as I wasn't looking forward to learning/ looking for changes in ASCE 7-16 and IBC for this cycle.


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## Gator314

Rebel Engineer said:


> Yep, they came through alright. I am with the majority, and failed both parts. I'll take it again next year. Though this time, one at a time.


Really sorry to hear that Rebel, were you at the Orlando test site? I met a few guys there … not sure if we met...
Best wishes to you next year. If you're looking for a good test review, I Highly recommend the SEAOI refresher course. Most of their teachers are exceptional, I really learned a lot from the seismic teacher and the concrete/masonry teachers...


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## SE-wishes

Saluki21 said:


> SE-wishes......Could you help me out with studying for the morning of the Lateral exam? I'm a bridge guy and the morning is just killing me and it appears that you have it locked down! I would really appreciate it if you would be willing to share your knowledge!


Sorry been off a few days. I took the EET class for starters. It’s an amazing resource but not necessarily set up for max efficiency for AM questions. I created an individual binder for every topic including a separate one for details that are common across more than one subject. In the binders I have them organized such that I can solve questions as fast as possible. Then I test their effectiveness by solving problems (usually putting subjects away for a while then coming back to them). I also HEAVILY note all my resources. I know everyone says that but I try to go way beyond normal to the point where I try to set it up such that non-engineers could solve the problems (basically I try to ‘stupid’ proof everything as much as possible) with the belief that I will panic at some point in the exam. Since I’ve now taken this b_t_h 3 times, I’ve come to understand numerous question types that are tricky and tend repeat. I’m not saying they ask these question types (we are not suppose to discuss this stuff) but for example, I can solve anything related to IBC eqs for embedded posts and poles, seismic tanks ASCE 7 chpt 15, brace forces in EBF, Z for RBS, etc etc in less than 60 seconds. There were many problems I solved in even less than 30 seconds because I had every possible variation set up in general solution format. As I took practice exams, I went so far as to determine exactly where to put the calculator, my reference I’m working with and the exam booklet to save seconds. I built a bookcase of milk crates and screwed them together such that it provided a second worktable providing an L-shaped space. This may sound excessive, but it worked. I finished with a lot of time to spare and went back through problems to double check. Hope this helps ....


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## TrussMe.Civil

Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


----------



## User1

TrussMe.Civil said:


> Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


definitely read through. there's SO much info in here. any specific questions feel free to ask. there's lots of "how i passed" threads and more. 

highly recommend the AEI review course.


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## Stewie

TrussMe.Civil said:


> Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


AEI course is helpful. Then, get all the codes. Then, study and practice everyday for four months. That worked for me. For smarter ppl, maybe just need one month study.


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## Reverse Polish

TrussMe.Civil said:


> Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


Well, that's a means-and-methods question that I can't answer.  

There are a lot of good study suggestions on these threads.  Keep in mind, however, that everyone is different.  We all have different study habits, aptitudes, and work experience, so what has worked for one may not work for you.  I personally had success with some tactics that others here have recommended against.  That's not to say those people are wrong--I just wasn't comfortable using their approaches in my own study.  You know yourself better than any of us do.  

The goal is to develop mastery over the content and application of the codes.  Whatever approach gets you to that point will be successful.  At a minimum, know the codes in the exam specifications inside-and-out.  Best of luck!


----------



## ZEZO4

TrussMe.Civil said:


> Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


I recommend AEI


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## JP87

TrussMe.Civil said:


> Hello! Anybody still here? I just passed my PE in October and was thinking about taking the SE sometime in the future. Does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for that? I will read through the thread more of course, but just wanted to see what people had for advice. Thanks!


Hope for the best and expect the worst!... I'm Jk. lol 

I also recommend AEI. I'm only a few lectures in right now and I can tell you IMHO it's already better than PPI's...about the same price though.


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## DoctorWho-PE

JP87 said:


> Hope for the best and expect the worst!... I'm Jk. lol
> 
> I also recommend AEI. I'm only a few lectures in right now and I can tell you IMHO it's already better than PPI's...about the same price though.


My brain hurts at the end of Saturdays.  So much info there.


----------



## organix

vhab49_PE said:


> My brain hurts at the end of Saturdays.  So much info there.


Those 9 hr lectures will do that to you, haha.


----------



## Titleistguy

Ohhhh they're not that bad.  I mean it's long days but it doesn't feel like 9 hours.  

I have conference call that may only be 2 or 3 hours that feel much longer. Lol.


----------

