# Studying issues



## schmidty99 (Feb 26, 2010)

I am currently studying for the Electrical-Electronics PE in April. I'm "working" through the problems on the NCEES sample test. What I am finding is that a great many of the questions are solved using some method that I either can't find or doesn't exist in the Camara EERM. It's very frustrating to say the least. I have other books to study from, but they aren't any more helpful. Don't get me wrong, I'm doing better with the EERM than without it, but it just doesn't seem like I'm learning the concepts that well. Am I missing something with the whole study process, or is this just what I need to fight through?

Any thoughts or advice would be helpful. Thanks in advance.


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## benbo (Feb 27, 2010)

schmidty99 said:


> I am currently studying for the Electrical-Electronics PE in April. I'm "working" through the problems on the NCEES sample test. What I am finding is that a great many of the questions are solved using some method that I either can't find or doesn't exist in the Camara EERM. It's very frustrating to say the least. I have other books to study from, but they aren't any more helpful. Don't get me wrong, I'm doing better with the EERM than without it, but it just doesn't seem like I'm learning the concepts that well. Am I missing something with the whole study process, or is this just what I need to fight through?
> Any thoughts or advice would be helpful. Thanks in advance.


I took that test, although it was the old style. I'm sure some of the problems are the same. Maybe you can give me an example.

You're probably going to have to fight through it. One thing about EE problems they are often not the type of thing you can just look up a formula and plug in. You will need to do some circuit analysis (including RLC), or some algebra to solve a control problem. If you know the basics of control theory - open and closed loop, phase and gain margin, Nyquist, root locus, etc., are good using some form of circuit analysis, and know the basics of op-amps, diodes,and transistor you will be able to answer a lot of problems. One thing in the EERM I did find useful was that section on various type of RLC circuits and transients. I always confuse that stuff.

Some of the communications/antenna problems you will just have to be lucky.

I haven't worked these problems for a few years, so I am a little rusty, but maybe I can at least tell you how to approach it. but I think you are experiencing the same thing I did. Also, if you can go through the practice probs and REALLY understand how they did it, even if you have to look at the answer, that will help you out a lot in the long run.


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## z06dustin (Mar 1, 2010)

schmidty99 said:


> I am currently studying for the Electrical-Electronics PE in April. I'm "working" through the problems on the NCEES sample test. What I am finding is that a great many of the questions are solved using some method that I either can't find or doesn't exist in the Camara EERM. It's very frustrating to say the least. I have other books to study from, but they aren't any more helpful.


If you get stuck on one, feel free to post it here. FlyerPE, Dark Knight, and a many others on this board are VERY helpful when it comes to the Power practice exam, so hopefully someone will step-up for the Electronics and give you a step-by-step or will help you get over a hurdle if you're stalled for some reason. You might have to scan the question and post it or give details on the question.

Also, check out this thread. I can't remember if the questions numbers for the new format are accurate or not though. I don't think they were for power, but it may still be helpful?

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=4398

One more thing, make sure you take the practice exam and all the problems worked out just in case there's a similar question on the exam.


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## rshankle PE (Mar 1, 2010)

z06dustin said:


> schmidty99 said:
> 
> 
> > I am currently studying for the Electrical-Electronics PE in April. I'm "working" through the problems on the NCEES sample test. What I am finding is that a great many of the questions are solved using some method that I either can't find or doesn't exist in the Camara EERM. It's very frustrating to say the least. I have other books to study from, but they aren't any more helpful.
> ...


Hi,

I am studying for the Electronics depth also. If you post the problem I might be able to help. (Note I ordered the huge study package (EEEP) and am working through the problems so you might hit one I haven't tried yet. Also since I order the set, there is one booklet of 80 practice problems I haven't opened and want to do that set within a controlled 8 hours at the end of march to see if I can handle the time pressure, so hopefully your question isn't from that.)

Note, I did notice problem 528, where you are given 3 figures and had to choose which has dual diversity, that one is still unclear, the answer basically read "it is because it is".

GL


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## schmidty99 (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input. Ok, I'm going to try and respond to each of you a little bit.

benbo, That's kind of what I thought about fighting through them. I figure I'll just try to work as many problems as I can get my hands on. One of the problems I might be having is, like you say, how to approach it or set it up. I get the math no problem, its just finding the right equation(s) to get the ball rolling. I am not very good at control systems, period. I don't even recall studying them in college. Any pointers would be awesome.

z06dustin, your last sentence about taking the practice exam and the worked out problems, that's what I am doing. Good to hear that someone else recommends that strategy, I didn't know if it might be taboo or not.

sparrow, maybe you and I will be good buddies then. There seem to be only a few electronics people. I posted this a while back and didn't get a response.

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showto...p;hl=attenuator

As always, any help, comments, or tips are appreciated. BJS


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## rshankle PE (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi Schmidty99,

I responded in the other topic thread. Note you posted that before I came on board so I missed it. (Probably would still miss it today cause I don't read all the posts.)

I put my e-mail address in the other thread, please contact me directly if you have more questions (or send me a link and I'll respond in the thread if I can help.)

thanks,

Sparrow

(Summary EERMv8 page 29.15, equation 29.61 and figure 29.18 for a description of Y parameters and how to calculate them.)

I'm studying hard for the April exam, and want to pass it the first time!


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## schmidty99 (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks Sparrow! I'll take a look at it. I am trying to study hard also (trying to get in 15+ hours a week, but its difficult), but I just don't know if I'm cut out for this. It took me 4 times to pass the FE! Ugh. It doesn't matter, I'm going to study my @$$ off and hope for some luck. Its people like you, benbo, and z06dustin that give me the confidence I need to keep going. Thanks again!


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## rshankle PE (Mar 2, 2010)

schmidty99 said:


> Thanks Sparrow! I'll take a look at it. I am trying to study hard also (trying to get in 15+ hours a week, but its difficult), but I just don't know if I'm cut out for this. It took me 4 times to pass the FE! Ugh. It doesn't matter, I'm going to study my @$$ off and hope for some luck. Its people like you, benbo, and z06dustin that give me the confidence I need to keep going. Thanks again!


You're welcome. I hope you ordered the "Electrical Engineering Practice Problems for the Power, Electrical and Electronics, and Computer PE Exams (EEPP8), 8th Edition" with the EERM. There are lots of problems in there for each chapter.

My study plan follows what is outlined in the EERM (skimming power section) and working the practice problems. I took the one practice "test" in December and will take the other at the end of march under 8hours. My final push will be the week of the exam to grab a couple Schaum's outline books and work those problems (focusing on areas that I missed on the second practice "test").

My work has enough vacation time to allow me to take off the week of the exam (I told my boss I would be useless at work anyhow that week.) So I'll be studying as hard as I can, I don't want to take this thing twice and given this economy and work schedule I'm not sure I would have time to wait another 6months to take it again.

TTYL


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## schmidty99 (Mar 2, 2010)

I have the EERM v8, but I didn't get the practice problems. Do you think that's a good idea? With books/resources I have, I should have plenty of problems to work, but if the EERM practice problems are more representative of the exam (i.e. NCEES Sample Exam) then I'll order it.

Unfortunately, my wife planned a Disney vacation without regard to my studying from March 31-April 6. So basically I'll have a week to forget everything, and then 10 days to cram before the test. Since I've taken that vacation, I don't have enough time to take any more time off during exam week. Oh well, I'll make the most of it.

Getting back to problem 102 in NCEES sample exam. As usual, I went to work it last night and it turns out the way they solved it isn't even close to being specified in the EERM. They solved for the z parameters first, then changed them to y-parameters. I don't have my books in front of me, but I couldn't find the solution they gave expressed in the EERM. That's what I'm finding a lot of and its very frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I understand the solution from NCEES and I can build from that, so that's good. Its just frustrating when you look through all your books and can't find the way to do it. I'm still a little gray on it though.

Are you any good with control systems? 534 and 535 are kicking my butt.


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## rshankle PE (Mar 2, 2010)

schmidty99 said:


> I have the EERM v8, but I didn't get the practice problems. Do you think that's a good idea? With books/resources I have, I should have plenty of problems to work, but if the EERM practice problems are more representative of the exam (i.e. NCEES Sample Exam) then I'll order it.
> Unfortunately, my wife planned a Disney vacation without regard to my studying from March 31-April 6. So basically I'll have a week to forget everything, and then 10 days to cram before the test. Since I've taken that vacation, I don't have enough time to take any more time off during exam week. Oh well, I'll make the most of it.
> 
> Getting back to problem 102 in NCEES sample exam. As usual, I went to work it last night and it turns out the way they solved it isn't even close to being specified in the EERM. They solved for the z parameters first, then changed them to y-parameters. I don't have my books in front of me, but I couldn't find the solution they gave expressed in the EERM. That's what I'm finding a lot of and its very frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I understand the solution from NCEES and I can build from that, so that's good. Its just frustrating when you look through all your books and can't find the way to do it. I'm still a little gray on it though.
> ...


For 534, just multiply the boxes and you get: 50 / (20s^2 + 40s) as a replacement for the 3 boxes. Now you have one box with feedback, so you want to use the equation C(s)/R(s) = G(s) / (1 + G(s)) solve this until you have a polynomial in the denominator that has a 1 as the coefficient for s^2. (According to the answer you have: 2.5 /(s^2 + 2s + 2.5). If you look at equation 31.68, page 31-14, gives the definition for damping ratio. So looking at the equation in the denominator, you see that 2 = 2 * damping_ratio * Wn. You know Wn^2 = 2.5. So plug it in and solve for damping ratio.

For 535, looking at the answer, you only need to focus on the polynomial in the denominator, so you have s^2 + 3s + (2+k). In order for this to be stable you do not want (2+K) to be negative, so K &gt; =-2. This is using the Hurwitz Test (page 64-12) or the more complicated Routh Criterion (same page.)

Hope this helps.

(I would highly recommend the practice book. My theory is your mind doesn't learn the material unless your fingers do the work. If you don't "do it" you will not "remember it".


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## schmidty99 (Mar 2, 2010)

Sparrow said:


> schmidty99 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the EERM v8, but I didn't get the practice problems. Do you think that's a good idea? With books/resources I have, I should have plenty of problems to work, but if the EERM practice problems are more representative of the exam (i.e. NCEES Sample Exam) then I'll order it.
> ...


Wow (I'm in awe), that does help. For 534, I get how to combine the boxes. It was a little foggy after that, but your explanation is crystal clear. In the NCEES answer, they said the first eqn was the open-loop transfer function, and the second eqn was the closed loop transfer function. Is that how you explain how to solve for any open loop or closed loop transfer function? If that's the case, its seems pretty easy once you know what to do.

For 535, again I understand what they are doing after I look at the answer. I didn't know what it takes for the system to be stable. I read through that last night in the EERM, but your explanation is better. I read through the Hurwitz and Routh stuff and didn't pick up on it. Ugh.

Thanks again. Is this stuff easy for you? From what I see right now, I can't imagine you'll have any trouble passing the test.


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## rshankle PE (Mar 2, 2010)

Hi, You are correct G(s) = 50 / (20s^2 + 40s) which is the open-loop gain as I understand it. For making the system stable I figured you didn't want the coefficients (of the closed loop denominator) to ever change sign, so since all of them were positive, we wanted (K+2) to remain positive also.

Thanks for the kind words, I am studying like my job depends on it. (Even though it doesn't, but my next one might  )

GL


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## schmidty99 (Mar 2, 2010)

Ok. I'll take a look tonight and try to work through them. I ordered the Camara practice problems, it should be helpful. My job doesn't depend on it either, but if I want to move up at my company, it pretty much does. I'm sure I'll be in touch.  Thanks for all your help Sparrow. BJS


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## nuclear bus (Mar 2, 2010)

schmidty99 said:


> Ok. I'll take a look tonight and try to work through them. I ordered the Camara practice problems, it should be helpful. My job doesn't depend on it either, but if I want to move up at my company, it pretty much does. I'm sure I'll be in touch.  Thanks for all your help Sparrow. BJS


I know this is a little late to the discussion, but I'd like to second the recommendation for the camara book, EE sample examinations for the power, electrical and electronics, and computer PE exams, 3rd ed. At least from the power discipline, the problems were close to the NCEES sample problems, where as the problems in the other camara practice book were not very helpful.


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## rshankle PE (Mar 3, 2010)

nuclear bus said:


> schmidty99 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. I'll take a look tonight and try to work through them. I ordered the Camara practice problems, it should be helpful. My job doesn't depend on it either, but if I want to move up at my company, it pretty much does. I'm sure I'll be in touch.  Thanks for all your help Sparrow. BJS
> ...


I like the practice book because it forces me to work through the material I just read. (You are correct they are basically the example problems, but one exception comes to mind and that is the section on Op Amps. The last couple problems took some effort to complete. )


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