# PE Seal & Stamp



## Lostboi (Nov 1, 2021)

Hello,

I recently received my California PE number and I have a few questions moving forward, specifically in regards to PE seal & stamp:


I have a long legal name (thanks to my parents!), and I'd like to only show my first name and last name on the PE seal. Is this legal?
My name is too long that some med prescription labels and government entities cut letters off my second name. What's the maximum number of characters/letters to be shown on the PE seal?

This question is more of a general question: My signature on all my government IDs (ie. passport, driver's license, mortgage, etc...) is basically my entire legal name in cursive (because I had to sign my passport at such a young age). How do I go about changing my signature that can fit on the construction plans? Or should I have my signature in 2 lines ? If I need to change completely change my signature that affects my legal IDs, I'm all ears.
Thank you!


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## Orchid PE (Nov 1, 2021)

I've always heard the name on your seal needs to match the name registered with the state. You should research this. Someone else on here might know more about Cali requirements.
IDK if California has some weird rules, but most places dgaf about your signature. My signature over the years has changed multiple times. Your signature does not have to match your passport or ID/DL. The signature on my passport is different from the one on my DL which is different from the one I use currently. I literally just closed on a house two weeks ago and I asked the closing agent if they cared about my signature and they said no. I essentially sign the first letter of my first name followed by some scribbles, then first letter of my last name.
Get the bear seal


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## DLD PE (Nov 1, 2021)

Lostboi said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently received my California PE number and I have a few questions moving forward, specifically in regards to PE seal & stamp:
> 
> ...


1. The licensing board in your state should have a guide which states how your name may appear on the seal. For example, in TN, I applied using my first, middle, and last name, but my seal only shows my middle initial. Some people choose to show their full name, others first and last name only, yet others show their first name, middle initial, and last name (as I do). 

2. Your state should also have a guide regarding your signature. Below is an image and example of a properly signed and dated seal from the "Architects and Engineers Reference Manual" from the state of TN. I've seen some people modify their signature (using first initial plus last name, for example) to make it shorter and therefore, not take too much space.


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## Dothracki PE (Nov 1, 2021)

Lostboi said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently received my California PE number and I have a few questions moving forward, specifically in regards to PE seal & stamp:
> 
> ...


Every state has their own requirements, unually in some form of local CFR. See below from what I found on a quick google search. https://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/laws/boardrules.pdf




So you might be able to sign like an author (J.R.R. Tolkien, etc.) and get your stamp as such. It seems the surname is the most important part in CA. Usually the company that provides the seals will be able to tell you what the maximum is. They can probably adjust the font, width, spacing, etc. to make anything fit.

Also like @Orchid PE said, GET THE BEAR SEAL!!!


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## civilrobot PE etc etc (Nov 2, 2021)

I wish we had a crab seal in MD.


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## DLD PE (Nov 2, 2021)

I wish our seal was cooler looking. I think it's boring.



Here is the official TN state seal. It has changed over the years, but currently it looks like this. The top features a plow, sheath of wheat, and cotton plant, which were important features of agriculture in the state's history. At the bottom is a small ship, which used to be a boat with a boat man, but they got rid of the boat man and replaced the boat with a ship. Still looks like a boat to me though. Also, I've never figured out what the small doghouse looking building is next to the plow. It's never in any descriptions or narratives I can find about the seal. 

I think our seal should be replaced with the state dog, the blue tick hound,




Or Davy Crockett. Either one would be make the seal cooler looking.


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## Dothracki PE (Nov 2, 2021)

Partly why I went for NY state license over NJ. Also the fact that it's easier for comity license from NY instead of to NY. And work in NY anway. So like 10% of my decison was based on the seal.


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## DLD PE (Nov 2, 2021)

I will say NY has one of the best, if not THE best looking seals of all the state seals I've seen.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 2, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I will say NY has one of the best, if not THE best looking seals of all the state seals I've seen.


But LA has a flippin' PELICAN!! @jean15paul_PE be stylin'


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 2, 2021)

civilrobot PE etc etc said:


> I wish we had a crab seal in MD.


YASSS, but the crab has to be holding a smol Old Bay shaker.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 2, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> But LA has a flippin' PELICAN!! @jean15paul_PE be stylin'


Louisiana surprisingly has a pretty cool stamp.
It looks good digitally, but it has a lot of detail that doesn't show up well when you use it.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 2, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> Louisiana surprisingly has a pretty cool stamp.
> It looks good digitally, but it has a lot of detail that doesn't show up well when you use it.
> 
> View attachment 23885


zoom in on the Pelican. It's feeding and protecting its 3 babies


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 2, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> zoom in on the Pelican. It's feeding and protecting its 3 babies


Umbrellican.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 2, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> It's feeding and protecting its 3 babies millennial adults still living at home


FIFY


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 2, 2021)

A very close second is Wyoming. Cowboy lyfe!


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## Orchid PE (Nov 2, 2021)

Out of all of mine, TN is the best looking and I like the design. Alaska and pretty sweet; might need to get licensed there just for the seal.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 2, 2021)

Any of them that has any image at all is better than just circles and letters/numbers. But even just the circles is better than the rectangle ones.

Full list below






Get Professional Engineer Stamps, Engineer Seal Embosser


If you are an engineer and looking for best engineer stamp then you are on right page. Get professional engineer seal & stamp now at affordable rates.




www.pestamps.com


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## DLD PE (Nov 2, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Out of all of mine, TN is the best looking and I like the design. Alaska and pretty sweet; might need to get licensed there just for the seal.


For some reason I assumed most state engineering seals had some kind of design, similar or matching the official state seal logo. For example, I worked in NC for over 10 years and it completely escaped me that they leave the female figures of "Liberty" and "Plenty" off the engineer version of the seal.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 2, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> For some reason I assumed most state engineering seals had some kind of design, similar or matching the official state seal logo. For example, I worked in NC for over 10 years and it completely escaped me that they leave the female figures of "Liberty" and "Plenty" off the engineer version of the seal.
> 
> View attachment 23889


Hey Liberty. Hi Plenty...


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## DoctorWho-PE (Nov 2, 2021)

Iowa is plain jane boring.


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## ruggercsc (Nov 2, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I wish our seal was cooler looking. I think it's boring.
> 
> View attachment 23881
> 
> ...


I think Tennessee's seal would should be random scenes from Hee Haw.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 2, 2021)

ruggercsc said:


> I think Tennessee's seal would should be random scenes from Hee Haw.


Um. That was... a lot @ruggercsc


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## steel (Nov 2, 2021)

Pennsylvania’s is pretty sweet, too!


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## bwin12 (Nov 3, 2021)

vhab49_PE said:


> Iowa is plain jane boring.
> View attachment 23890


The stamp is too.


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Random question because I like jumping the gun:
Where did you order your stamp from and what type of stamp do you favor? Pre-inked? Self-inking? Old rubber stamp and ink pad?


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Embossing. Nobody likes "rubber stamper" type engineer.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

I know of no engineer who uses an embosser, even from the few I know who actually have an embosser.

Everyone at my employer uses a wooden rubber stamp and ink pad, including myself. I stamp a small sheet of paper from a 5"x3" pad, and sign and date the seal for that particular project. Then I scan and create a .png file which I insert into the titleblock of the CAD drawing. I then keep the small paper/stamp I signed in a separate folder in a locked cabinet and I keep a log of drawings I've sealed.

We get our stamps from "PE Stamps" in Gorham, Maine PE Stamp | Professional Engineer Stamp

I take this very seriously and prefer it to the electronic seal, which is the more popular option in our industry. The reason I prefer this is I experienced abuse of a seal at a previous firm. Specifically, a non-PE copied an electronic seal from a former employee's (who is a PE) project folder and used it to "sign" and send incomplete construction drawings without that person's knowledge. 

I realize nothing is fool-proof and there are ways to help prevent "theft" of an electronic seal, as I'm sure there are ways someone could steal and use mine without my knowledge. However, I prefer the rubber stamp method.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

I didn't realize the RI stamp was square.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I know of no engineer who uses an embosser, even from the few I know who actually have an embosser.


Having grown up my entire life in the consulting engineering industry, and having a PE as a father, I can tell you I've never seen an engineer use a rubber stamp. Mainly because there is a negative connotation with them. Embossing is the respectable choice.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Having grown up my entire life in the consulting engineering industry, and having a PE as a father, I can tell you I've never seen an engineer use a rubber stamp. Mainly because there is a negative connotation with them. Embossing is the respectable choice.


*looks at Colorado and Oregon stamps - made of rubber. Checks TX stamp order - yep, that's rubber too. Peeks into boss's office drawer - yep, those are all rubber* 




Preeeeeetty sure most of my colleague's stamps are rubber too, yo. We don't EVER emboss.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> View attachment 23927
> 
> I didn't realize the RI stamp was square.


I am a stamp.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> *looks at Colorado and Oregon stamps - made of rubber. Checks TX stamp order - yep, that's rubber too. Peeks into boss's office drawer - yep, those are all rubber*
> 
> View attachment 23934
> 
> ...


Read that as "boss's drawer is full of rubbers."


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

I know of no negative connotation of rubber stamps vs electronic stamps vs embossed. "Negative connotation" and "respectable" might differ from one person's perspective to the next, but it's really the person who's seal is on the drawings clients care about, NOT what material (electronic or otherwise) the stamp is made out of.

Also, embossing made sense back in the day when actual paper drawings were the submission of choice. With electronic drawings mostly being sent (also to save paper and space), embossing has become obsolete in most cases as a method of sealing drawings.


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

So nobody has this number?



Everyone I know uses one of these!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


Heck no, I chisel all my drawings with cuneiform.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I know of no negative connotation of rubber stamps vs electronic stamps vs embossed.


Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



DuranDuran PE said:


> embossing has become obsolete in most cases as a method of sealing drawings.


This statement is narrowminded.

*Checks my 4 seals* Embossing.
*Checks my fathers 4 seals* Embossing.
*Checks his partner's 2 seals* Embossing.
*Checks colleague's 2 seals* Embossing.
*Checks all the other seals of every other PE I know* Embossing.

Hmmmm.... Interesting.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


I'm sure those work great too. I had the option of getting that one, but since everyone at my employer seems to like the wooden stamps and use them, I just went with the flow.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> This statement is narrowminded.
> ...


Just because your experience is with embossing, doesn't invalidate the experiences of others. 

And being a dick about it just makes you look like more of a dick.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


That bad boy is RUBBER!


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> This statement is narrowminded.
> ...


To each his own, I say!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


Only kidding. I really enjoy the ka-chunk of this duder.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> To each his own, I say!


And maybe this younger generation of PE's are okay with inking, but it doesn't change the fact rubber stamping is a term used to describe anyone (not just engineers) that just stamp anything that comes across their desk or hand off their stamp for others to use.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> And being a dick about it just makes you look like more of a dick.


 Deal with it.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Heck no, I chisel all my drawings with cuneiform.


You should switch to hieroglyphics. It's the more respectable choice. Cuneiform has a negative connotation.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> I am a stamp.


No, no, sweetie, you're a snacc, not a stamp.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Deal with it.


Or you could pull your head out of your butt and stop being convinced you're always right. What an awesome concept!


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Or you could pull your head out of your butt and stop being convinced you're always right. What an awesome concept!


Oh yeah, that'll convince me to change my opinion!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> No, no, sweetie, you're a snacc, not a stamp.


*blushes* 

Wait, snacc is a good thing, yes? I'm legit not sure.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> You should switch to hieroglyphics. It's the more respectable choice. Cuneiform has a negative connotation.


False. Egyptians can suck it. Hittite kingdom fo' lyfe!


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Oh yeah, that'll convince me to change my opinion!


Well, when your head is that far up your butt, bullhokey is all you can see.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> *blushes*
> 
> Wait, snacc is a good thing, yes? I'm legit not sure.


Yes, snacc is a good thing.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> And maybe this younger generation of PE's are okay with inking, but it doesn't change the fact rubber stamping is a term used to describe anyone (not just engineers) that just stamp anything that comes across their desk or hand off their stamp for others to use.


Big difference between the concept of "rubber stamping" and the physical act of using a wooden stamp with rubber seal to sign drawings.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Just a Sumerian boy, livin' in a Hittite world...


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Yes, snacc is a good thing.


*swoon*

I'm ensorceled.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> This statement is narrowminded.
> ...


So you're telling me you and everyone you know emboss your construction drawings? Meaning, you have to hand-press the embosser, sign it, and either mail or hand deliver paper drawings to your client? That's a lot of money spent on paper and postage/gas.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Big difference between the concept of "rubber stamping" and the physical act of using a wooden stamp with rubber seal to sign drawings.


Totally agree using a actual rubber stamp doesn't immediately make someone a rubber stamper. However, the stigma is still there because those that have perpetuated it.



DuranDuran PE said:


> So you're telling me you and everyone you know emboss your construction drawings. Meaning, you have to hand-press the embosser, sign it, and either mail or hand deliver paper drawings to your client? That's a lot of money spent on paper and postage/gas.


Yes. Up until COVID, everywhere we worked the permitting departments required signed and sealed paper drawings. During/after COVID, most permitting departments _finally_ switched to accepting electronically signed plans (even though the state requirements had already allowed electronic/digital for years). However, a single document containing the digital signature(s) of the electronically signed documents must still be physically signed/sealed/dated and submitted (For certain permitting departments, obviously. Some switched over to accepting digital signatures on the documents).


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

So for the record, my seals are rubber and I did make myself digital versions, that I have password protected on my computer. I also digitally sign and seal my projects, which is also password protected. There is literally no way for my stamp to be used to "rubber stamp" anything, as I (and my company) take the use of seals very seriously. So much so, that when I was on vacation, I brought my work computer with me so I could sign/seal some drawings that had to go out. 

In the digital age, inked stamps are the way to go.


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> That bad boy is RUBBER!


Well, yeah, it's still rubber, but I meant like, does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp with a separate ink pad rather than this?


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Well, when your head is that far up your butt, bullhokey is all you can see.


Keep going with all the the insults! I think I'm finally starting to come around!


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Also, what the hell can of worms did I open for @Orchid PE ??????


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Well, yeah, it's still rubber, but I meant like, does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp with a separate ink pad rather than this?


Nah, these are the bad boys we all have in the office. But they are rubber. Which SOME PEOPLE think is a terrible thing. Practical people use these on the regular.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Keep going with all the the insults! I think I'm finally starting to come around!


You just don't like being told you're wrong.


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Well, yeah, it's still rubber, but I meant like, does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp with a separate ink pad rather than this?


Not everyone. Only the narrow-minded, rubber-stamping, disrespected low-lifes use a rubber stamp if you ask Greenie. If you want to be well respected like the grand embosser and the grand embosser's father and his father's father before him, use an embosser.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Big difference between the concept of "rubber stamping" and the physical act of using a wooden stamp with rubber seal to sign drawings.


But in addition, there is a well known "PE" in town (I use quotes because I want to insinuate I don't consider him a PE) that uses a rubber type stamp. This is the guy contractors go to when they want something signed without any changes. This PE has had his licensed suspended a few times, but somehow manages to practice. I don't even think he's actually reviewed plans for a few decades. He manages to steal a lot of work because contractors go to him. But maybe those aren't the type of contractors we want to work with anyways.



structurenole15 said:


> Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.


All you have to do is rub some lead on it and it will show up. But that's one of the bigger points for using embossing is because it is more difficult to reproduce. We have actually come across contractors taking plans and reproducing my father's seal on documents and submitting for permitting, because the original plans they copied from had to be scanned and we had to rub lead on them. Luckily we caught it after we got a call from the county about needing more info on the designs.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Not everyone. Only the narrow-minded, rubber-stamping, disrespected low-lifes use a rubber stamp if you ask Greenie. If you want to be well respected like the grand embosser and the grand embosser's father and his father's father before him, use an embosser.


Exactly.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.


I don't know, but you make a good point. I don't see how it could be scanned and sent to someone who wanted to see a record drawing. They would only see the signature, so it would be difficult to know who actually sealed the drawings.

Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I don't know, but you make a good point. I don't see how it could be scanned and sent to someone who wanted to see a record drawing. They would only see the signature, so it would be difficult to know who actually sealed the drawings.
> 
> Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.


Additionally, the way I do my signing/sealing, if anyone tries to edit the PDF after I've signed/sealed, it "breaks" the signature and is no longer a valid construction drawing.


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## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Additionally, the way I do my signing/sealing, if anyone tries to edit the PDF after I've signed/sealed, it "breaks" the signature and is no longer a valid construction drawing.


Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.


But that's kind of the point right? An engineer's seal is supposed to be in their control all the time. They are only supposed to sign/seal stuff they have done or are in control of. Physically sealing each document means the engineer physically touched the paper and has no excuse for not reviewing the contents. In this regard, seal & stamp can physically be in control of the engineer.

Now being able to copy and paste a seal, though more "practical," opens the door for engineers to have their seal placed on documents by draftsmen without actually having to review the documents.

But back to rubber vs embossing, the stigma is still there regardless if we want it to be or not.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.


It's super easy to just copy the seal off a PDF.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> You just don't like being told you're wrong.


Yeeaaah, I don't think that's what's going on here.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

But anyone can buy an engineer's seal block online. Same goes with ink stamp or seals. What's to stop someone from getting your name and license number and ordering from one of these online companies? Absolutely nothing. When I passed the exam the first time my dad bought my first seal for me without me even needing to give him any information.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.


I put the approval signature item over my seal - so it shows the date/time I sealed it. I also include data such as the client and the project in my digital authorization. 

Bluebeam won't let you edit a PDF with a password protected seal authorization on it, and when you print to PDF, it will remove my digital signature. Without the digital signature, the drawings aren't supposed to be used for construction. Could you have unscrupulous contractors, yes, but that's what contracts and client vetting are for.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp


I got one of these anyway to fill space on my office shelf. Used it once or twice as backup. Mostly it's just a nice-to-have on the shelf.

WOOD: THE ORIGINAL CARBON FIBER baahahahah


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> But anyone can buy an engineer's seal block online. Same goes with ink stamp or seals. What's to stop someone from getting your name and license number and ordering from one of these online companies? Absolutely nothing. When I passed the exam the first time my dad bought my first seal for me without me even needing to give him any information.


And anyone can buy an embosser with the same details.


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## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> And anyone can buy an embosser with the same details.


Absolutely. So if we're talking about security of our seal/stamp/signature/whatever, 100% digital is the way to go.


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## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Okay, so my thoughts:

1) I don't believe there is a stigma against using an ink seal versus an embossing seal. I've worked for multiple companies that used an ink seal (the self-inking one that goes "kerplunk" when you press it...so satisfying!), but only one engineer I have ever worked for used an embosser. Each and every one of them was just as ethical and great to work for. The type of seal they used made absolutely no difference to their credibility, work ethic, or how I felt about them.

2) Anyone can copy any seal. Do some make it harder? Yes. But there's no way you're going to protect yourself against everyone. We lock our doors at night, but that won't stop anyone from breaking my giant bay window to get inside. It just keeps an honest person honest, but we always need to watch out for the dishonest people, which means (see item 3).

3) There are ways to protect yourself using an ink seal in the digital world. Such as:


MadamPirate PE said:


> I put the approval signature item over my seal - so it shows the date/time I sealed it. I also include data such as the client and the project in my digital authorization.
> 
> Bluebeam won't let you edit a PDF with a password protected seal authorization on it, and when you print to PDF, it will remove my digital signature. Without the digital signature, the drawings aren't supposed to be used for construction. Could you have unscrupulous contractors, yes, but that's what contracts and client vetting are for.



All said, if (when) I see that coveted green "pass" box on NCEES in December, I'm getting the self-inking cause, see the nice kerplunk comment above! But I also may get an embossing seal cause they just look freaking incredible!


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Also, what the hell can of worms did I open for @Orchid PE ??????


Beats me. People just starting ganging up on me because I informed them there is a stigma around using a rubber stamp, and they got upset because they use a rubber stamp.


----------



## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Beats me. People just starting ganging up on me because I informed them there is a stigma around using a rubber stamp, and they got upset because they use a rubber stamp.


And I told you there isn't, outside of your personal experience. That it was your experience that there was, but that others have had the opposite experience and not to discount other's own lived experiences.


----------



## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Okay, so my thoughts:
> 
> 1) I don't believe there is a stigma against using an ink seal versus an embossing seal. I've worked for multiple companies that used an ink seal (the self-inking one that goes "kerplunk" when you press it...so satisfying!), but only one engineer I have ever worked for used an embosser. Each and every one of them was just as ethical and great to work for. The type of seal they used made absolutely no difference to their credibility, work ethic, or how I felt about them.
> 
> ...


That "ker-plunk" is SUPER satisfying the first time.

Now getting the damn thing to eject and be ready for stamping is a whole other story. *curses her weak hand strength*


----------



## NikR_PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Just to show off my PEness I have trained a seal to seal my drawings.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> And I told you there isn't, outside of your personal experience.


However it's not just _my _personal experience. Other engineers I know are aware of the stigma. And like it said earlier, rubber stamping isn't just associated with engineers. Rubber stamping is a well know term used to refer to people that don't check work. The term is common knowledge.






And there's a good reason up to around 2008-2010 many states were _requiring_ embossing type seals. Approval to use rubber stamps for most of those states have only been around a _relatively _short time period. This is why the stigma is around. Embossing has been the main method of sealing for engineers for a majority of the time, and when rubber stamps come into the picture "rubber stamping" carried a stigma with it. This means any engineer that was actually using a physical rubber stamp prior to when states began allowing them was breaking the law.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Beats me. People just starting ganging up on me because I informed them there is a stigma around using a rubber stamp, and they got upset because they use a rubber stamp.


But here's the thing: just because you personally have certain feelings toward ink seals (based on family history as well, I see) doesn't mean everyone who uses an ink seal is any less credible than you or any other embosser.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

And having an embossed seal on a piece of paper is just plain boss.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> But here's the thing: just because you personally have certain feelings toward ink seals (based on family history as well, I see) doesn't mean everyone who uses an ink seal is any less credible than you or any other embosser.


See post above.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> See post above.


You're not disproving me. 

I'll say it again: just because an engineer uses an ink seal doesn't make them less of an engineer than you.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 3, 2021)

I have an embosser. But I'm also in a job where I will never have to stamp anything. I got an embosser because that what I wanted. And my state board requires every licensed PE to get a stamp/seal of some kind, even if they don't use it.

If I did have to stamp things regularly, I'd get an ink stamp because it's much more convenient and more common today than embossed seals, in my experience. But the industry is largely moving to electronic. So this whole ink vs embossed debate will be moot in a few year.

Also, I got mine from Custom Rubber Stamps & Embossing Seals | Acorn Sales They (among other companies) have a EB discount. But what really sold me on them was that they give free electronic seals with every purchase. Most companies charge extra for that.
For whatever it's worth I bough this "Hybrid Embosser" which can be used as a pocket embosser or a desk embosser.
Engineer Hybrid Seal Embosser - Acorn Sales


----------



## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> But here's the thing: just because you personally have certain feelings toward ink seals (based on family history as well, I see) doesn't mean everyone who uses an ink seal is any less credible than you or any other embosser.


THIS IS MY WHOLE POINT.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Embossing. Nobody likes "rubber stamper" type engineer.





Orchid PE said:


> Having grown up my entire life in the consulting engineering industry, and having a PE as a father, I can tell you I've never seen an engineer use a rubber stamp. Mainly because there is a negative connotation with them. Embossing is the respectable choice.





structurenole15 said:


> I'll say it again: just because an engineer uses an ink seal doesn't make them less of an engineer than you.


At what point did you think I said using an ink stamp made someone less of an engineer?

The facts I posted still stand correct. Nobody likes a "rubber stamper" type of engineer. This is the type of engineer that signs anything that comes across their desk. "Rubber stamping" is a negative connotation that is well known, and it comes along with using a physical rubber stamp.

Just because you and others were not familiar with the term and the stigma, that does not mean it does not exist in the engineering world.


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


I have something like this. Self-inking, BLUE INK. It’s nice, though I’ve never used it for anything but to stamp my code books for identification purposes.

I got my stamp from @PE Stamps and have zero regrets. Great customer service, quality product, and fast shipping if memory holds!


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Which reminds me, @squaretaper LIT AF PE are you in to get the super cool California Bear stamp that’s offered? My stamp still has my maiden name on it, and it technically out of date, and that bear is pretty cool…


----------



## NikR_PE (Nov 3, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> I’ve never used it for anything but to stamp my code books for identification purposes.


Haha. That's amazing.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> At what point did you think I said using an ink stamp made someone less of an engineer?
> 
> The facts I posted still stand correct. Nobody likes a "rubber stamper" type of engineer. This is the type of engineer that signs anything that comes across their desk. "Rubber stamping" is a negative connotation that is well known, and it comes along with using a physical rubber stamp.
> 
> Just because you and others were not familiar with the term and the stigma, that does not mean it does not exist in the engineering world.


You said, and I quote: "Embossing is the respectable choice." Implying that using any other type of seal is not respectable (incorrect).

Just because you use an embossing seal doesn't mean anyone who uses an ink seal uses it irresponsibly. You're assuming that every engineer who uses an ink seal misuses it. (also incorrect)


----------



## MambaMentality24 (Nov 3, 2021)

I have been in the Architecture/Engineering industry for almost 20 years. Worked with/for dozens of Registered Architects, Professional Engineers, and Professors in over 10 companies. I have NEVER heard of this "Embossing is the respectable choice" until I saw this thread.


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

NikR_PE said:


> Haha. That's amazing.


Ha! It was something I’ve seen others do in the past, and it made sense to me!


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Just because you and others were not familiar with the term and the stigma, that does not mean it does not exist in the engineering world.


Also, we know what the term "rubber stamping" is. Assuming we don't makes you look like a jerk.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> You said, and I quote: "Embossing is the respectable choice." Implying that using any other type of seal is not respectable (incorrect).


Correct. There are no stigmas with embossing type seals. It is the respectable choice as there won't be a single person out there that will ever initially think you are a rubber stamper. Going the ink route opens up the doors.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> Correct. There are no stigmas with embossing type seals. It is the respectable choice as there won't be a single person out there that will ever initially think you are a rubber stamper. Going the ink route opens up the doors.


See, if you automatically think of me as an irresponsible engineer solely cause I bought an ink stamp, that's YOUR problem, not mine.

Again: just because one choice seems respectable to you doesn't mean another choice isn't respectable.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> ...
> Just because you and others were not familiar with the term and the stigma, that does not mean it does not exist in the engineering world.


If I can chime in.

_"Stigma"_ is a very subjective thing that varies among different groups of people. @Orchid PE , I think you (and others) are speaking in far-too-broad generalizations. You say that in your experience, there's a stigma around using a rubber stamp. Sure; I accept that as your experience. But you have to be able to accept that other people have different experiences. 

The "engineering world" is very large and diverse. Many different industries, regions, demographics, companies with their individual culture, etc. There could legit be some stigma in *your* engineering world and absolutely none in someone else's engineering world.

Let's all back away from the ledge.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> Let's all back away from the ledge.


Greennie has already jumped.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> Which reminds me, @squaretaper LIT AF PE are you in to get the super cool California Bear stamp that’s offered? My stamp still has my maiden name on it, and it technically out of date, and that bear is pretty cool…


Yes! But I was going to wait until I get my Civil license to get the bear. Also, I stamp everything in PURPLE ink.


----------



## MambaMentality24 (Nov 3, 2021)

This is not complicated. If a state/AHJ allows you to sign/seal docs using methods 1, 2, or 3 and I just pick one of those methods then who cares about "stigmas in the industry" or how you look? Those other non legal stuff are just people stuck on their feelings.


----------



## MambaMentality24 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dothracki PE said:


> Every state has their own requirements, unually in some form of local CFR. See below from what I found on a quick google search. https://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/laws/boardrules.pdf
> 
> View attachment 23866
> 
> ...


That bear seal is awesome. When did they start that design? I wish I bought that one when I got my CA seal.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> BLUE INK


TEAM PURPLE INK!

Also, my mechanical stamp is modified so no one else has anything like it (at least, not in my office). Muahahaha.


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MambaMentality24 said:


> That bear seal is awesome. When did they start that design? I wish I bought that one when I got my CA seal.


I dunno, but it was NOT an option when I got my stamp originally in 2017.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

MambaMentality24 said:


> That bear seal is awesome. When did they start that design? I wish I bought that one when I got my CA seal.


Dunno, I think it was...mebbe a year or two ago? I think they should have gone with the California Quail instead, that would have been hilarious!


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> TEAM PURPLE INK!
> 
> Also, my mechanical stamp is modified so no one else has anything like it (at least, not in my office). Muahahaha.


Can you have purple ink?? I thought in CA, it had to be blue or black! But I might be making that up… and am too lazy to go check the bylaws.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> See, if you automatically think of me as an irresponsible engineer solely cause I bought an ink stamp, that's YOUR problem, not mine.
> 
> Again: just because one choice seems respectable to you doesn't mean another choice isn't respectable.


If you're going come on here asking advice about stamps, don't get defensive when someone provides their experience and opinion. Is it _really _necessary to call someone a jerk or a dick when they are providing knowledge gained through their experience? Just because you and others didn't like what I have seen through my experiences doesn't not mean you have to get upset about, which some of you clearly did.

If you didn't like what I have seen during my time in engineering, move along.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> Can you have purple ink?? I thought in CA, it had to be blue or black! But I might be making that up… and am too lazy to go check the bylaws.


You can have rainbow (which I also have) for all they care!


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

This is all they say: "The seal shall be capable of leaving a permanent ink representation, a permanent 
impression, or an electronically-generated representation on the documents. The signature may 
be applied to the documents electronically."


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> Can you have purple ink?? I thought in CA, it had to be blue or black! But I might be making that up… and am too lazy to go check the bylaws.


Go fuchsia!


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

TN clearly has a bunch of options:


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> TN clearly has a bunch of options:
> 
> View attachment 23947


@DuranDuran PE TN should have a PE stamp with, literally, ALL these things at once.


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

I didn't know this site had an ignore feature. Never thought I'd have to use it.


----------



## MambaMentality24 (Nov 3, 2021)

Lostboi said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently received my California PE number and I have a few questions moving forward, specifically in regards to PE seal & stamp:
> 
> ...


@CAPLS


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> If you're going come on here asking advice about stamps, don't get defensive when someone provides their experience and opinion. Is it _really _necessary to call someone a jerk or a dick when they are providing knowledge gained through their experience? Just because you and others didn't like what I have seen through my experiences doesn't not mean you have to get upset about, which some of you clearly did.
> 
> If you didn't like what I have seen during my time in engineering, move along.


@Orchid PE I don't think it was what you shared ... more how you said it .... that rubbed people the wrong way. I've noticed in this thread, and in other threads, that you speak in definitive absolutes and don't leave any space for other opinions.


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> I've noticed in this thread, and in other threads, that you speak in definitely absolutes and don't leave any space for other opinions.


That's just how the words come out of my mouth.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

I'm going to petition for a CA stamp with a quail. My new life mission.


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Let’s all take a breather!


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> TN clearly has a bunch of options:
> 
> View attachment 23947


Is "folk dance" the drunken stupor coming home from the bar?


----------



## Orchid PE (Nov 3, 2021)

You what, it's probably best for the board if I just leave. I can't even have a goddamn conversation without making everyone hate me. Fuck this shit. And don't think I don't fucking know it'd be best for the rest of the world if I could leave them, too.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Is "folk dance" the drunken stupor coming home from the bar?


You ought to know....

It's a SQUARE dance!


----------



## MadamPirate PE (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> You what, it's probably best for the board if I just leave. I can't even have a goddamn conversation without making everyone hate me. Fuck this shit. And don't think I don't fucking know it'd be best for the rest of the world if I could leave them, too.


Help is available
Speak with someone today
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Hours: Available 24 hours. Languages: English, Spanish. 
Learn more
800-273-8255


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

Orchid PE said:


> You what, it's probably best for the board if I just leave. I can't even have a goddamn conversation without making everyone hate me. Fuck this shit. And don't think I don't fucking know it'd be best for the rest of the world if I could leave them, too.


I highly, highly doubt that anyone here hates you. Nobody hates you, or me, or anyone else here because we don't really know each other. 

I can't speak for others, but I was attempting a conversation with you about why engineers are not inherently bad just because of the type of seal they may or may not use. 

Take a breather and come play mafia with us. It'll ease your mind, give you something fun to distract you with from this crazy thing we all call life, and I promise I won't vote to eliminate you from the game for at least the first two days!









EB Mafia


In in in in iiiiiiinnnnnnn




engineerboards.com


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

SPAM?


----------



## steel (Nov 3, 2021)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> SPAM?


That definitely helps too! Though I haven't visited the spam thread in a while.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> That definitely helps too! Though I haven't visited the spam thread in a while.


DUDE. Come SPAM. I mean, I don't have a dog in this fight this season, but I'm just tryna bank SPAM karma for next March.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 3, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> I highly, highly doubt that anyone here hates you. Nobody hates you, or me, or anyone else here because we don't really know each other.
> 
> I can't speak for others, but I was attempting a conversation with you about why engineers are not inherently bad just because of the type of seal they may or may not use.
> 
> ...


Agree. @Orchid PE of course no one here hates you. I echo @jean15paul_PE 's comments earlier. It's not what you share, it's how you say things sometimes that rub people the wrong way. 

Like @leggo PE said, take a breather and come SPAM with us!


----------



## Dothracki PE (Nov 3, 2021)

As with fire alarm devices, there is sometimes a due process for certain things and then for other things it's just that the manufacturers only make it a certain way. Each state is different and the companies that make the stamps understand that.


----------



## steel (Nov 4, 2021)

So, we got very off-topic yesterday...I just wanted to know what stamp people had and where they got it from and if they like it lol. 

I've heard a lot of good things about @PE Stamps but also about engineerseals and acornsales as well. Which site is the best? I know *someone* mentioned that acorn gives free digital seals with a purchase, so that's a plus!


----------



## steel (Nov 4, 2021)

NikR_PE said:


> Just to show off my PEness I have trained a seal to seal my drawings.


Also, I didn't read this as PE-ness, I read it as something else. I was about to call PETA cause how dare you show that to a seal!


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 4, 2021)

I did not know about acornsales with their free digital seals with purchase, and will keep them in mind for future stamps. I've been told the state of FL requires a digital encrypted seal on all drawings.


----------



## NikR_PE (Nov 4, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> Also, I didn't read this as PE-ness, I read it as something else. I was about to call PETA cause how dare you show that to a seal!


Just like dad jokes you only get these once you see the green mark in NCEES. Just a few more days for you my friend.


----------



## steel (Nov 4, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> Also, I got mine from Custom Rubber Stamps & Embossing Seals | Acorn Sales They (among other companies) have a EB discount. But what really sold me on them was that they give free electronic seals with every purchase. Most companies charge extra for that.


This is a great deal!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 4, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So, we got very off-topic yesterday...I just wanted to know what stamp people had and where they got it from and if they like it lol.
> 
> I've heard a lot of good things about @PE Stamps but also about engineerseals and acornsales as well. Which site is the best? I know *someone* mentioned that acorn gives free digital seals with a purchase, so that's a plus!


Yeah that was me. I was very happy with my experience with Acorn. But I'm sure the other companies do a good job too.

With my physical seal, I also got it electronically in various formats for free (jpg, pdf, tif, and dxf).

I also liked that they sent me a proof for approval before then manufacturing the physical stamp. I didn't expect that.


----------



## Dothracki PE (Nov 4, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So, we got very off-topic yesterday...I just wanted to know what stamp people had and where they got it from and if they like it lol.
> 
> I've heard a lot of good things about @PE Stamps but also about engineerseals and acornsales as well. Which site is the best? I know *someone* mentioned that acorn gives free digital seals with a purchase, so that's a plus!


I just got a digital seal from www.engineerseals.com. We don't really hard stamp anything anymore. Nor do I intend to stamp anything anytime soon. Only a few principals seal drawings in my company for insurance purposes.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 4, 2021)

Dothracki PE said:


> I just got a digital seal from www.engineerseals.com. We don't really hard stamp anything anymore. Nor do I intend to stamp anything anytime soon. Only a few principals seal drawings in my company for insurance purposes.


I want Wyoming so I can be a cowboy



.


----------



## MadamPirate PE (Nov 4, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I want Wyoming so I can be a cowboy
> 
> View attachment 24151
> 
> .


I'm pretty sure Wyoming requires PDHs.


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 4, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> I'm pretty sure Wyoming requires PDHs.


 @csb can you confirm?


----------



## NikR_PE (Nov 4, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> I'm pretty sure Wyoming requires PDHs.


Eww


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 4, 2021)

All states should require PDHs
*ducks in jealously*


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 4, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> All states should require PDHs
> *ducks in jealously*



Yeah, they probably all should, but gosh I’m glad mine doesn’t!


----------



## steel (Nov 4, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I want Wyoming so I can be a cowboy
> 
> View attachment 24151
> 
> .


I mean, they were the first state to issue a professional engineering license so I want them just for that reason alone, but yeah the stamp is badass!

And Pennsylvania already requires PDH's, so not a big deal if Wyoming does too.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 4, 2021)

Fun fact: There is a "Professional Engineer's Day". I didn't know this. It's August 3rd, same as my parents' anniversary, who are still happily married after 53 years.

See below. Charles Bellamy became the first PE in Wyoming in 1907.









Professional Engineers Day (U.S.) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## RBHeadge PE (Nov 4, 2021)

Obligatory:

I want Maryland to allow this:


----------



## leggo PE (Nov 4, 2021)

RBHeadge PE said:


> Obligatory:
> 
> I want Maryland to allow this:


What's the crossed out small image on the left?


----------



## RBHeadge PE (Nov 4, 2021)

A fit it.
I made the graphic shortly after the fitbit fiasco.

I needed something on the other side to balance with the can of old bay. I tried a traffic jam photo but it wasn't legible.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 4, 2021)

RBHeadge PE said:


> A fit it.
> I made the graphic shortly after the fitbit fiasco.
> 
> I needed something on the other side to balance with the can of old bay. I tried a traffic jam photo but it wasn't legible.


What is the Fitbit fiasco?


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Nov 4, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> What is the Fitbit fiasco?


Some dude got kicked out of a testing facility on account of they were wearing a fitbit inside and NCEES got worried they were going to cheat with it by recording stuff, etc.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 5, 2021)

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Some dude got kicked out of a testing facility on account of they were wearing a fitbit inside and NCEES got worried they were going to cheat with it by recording stuff, etc.


I have a GPS watch, so technically not a smart watch so it's "legal" by NCEES definition, but I didn't want to take a chance. Not knowing whether a clock would be inside the testing room and it being my first P/P attempt, I brought the only other watch I have, a mechanical Invicta (It was a gift; I'm not really into watches, or jewelry for that matter). I failed the exam and considered the watch bad luck after that. I took the watch out and wore it the day after I found out I passed the CBT since the curse had been lifted.


----------



## steel (Nov 5, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> I have a GPS watch, so technically not a smart watch so it's "legal" by NCEES definition, but I didn't want to take a chance. Not knowing whether a clock would be inside the testing room and it being my first P/P attempt, I brought the only other watch I have, a mechanical Invicta (It was a gift; I'm not really into watches, or jewelry for that matter). I failed the exam and considered the watch bad luck after that. I took the watch out and wore it the day after I found out I passed the CBT since the curse had been lifted.


I think technically anything with a gps would be considered a smart watch. I figure it like this: if there is any remote possibility of a connection with anyone or anything outside the exam room, that piece of equipment is illegal and should not be brought in. 

I know that the guy behind me this time around had a smart watch, a phone, and multiple pens, pencils, and erasers with him and he had to put everything up on the front table with the proctor. But he made like 4 trips cause he kept saying "Oh, I have this too."

Like how hard is it to read the rules and just leave everything but your books and a calculator at home?


----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc (Nov 5, 2021)

structurenole15 said:


> So nobody has this number?
> View attachment 23935
> 
> 
> Everyone I know uses one of these!


I have this one. I don't plan to use it unless I'm signing off for another perspective PE candidate. I don't do any design work. I manage the people who manage the people who manage the people who stamp drawings.


----------



## DLD PE (Nov 5, 2021)




----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E. (Nov 5, 2021)

I got mine from Acorn as I saw the 30% off promo code banner here. I forget exactly which one i bought but the free digital seals was a nice bonus. And they send them in a few formats (.dxf, pdf, jpg and i think one more) so you can just plop it however needed.


----------



## csb (Nov 9, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> @csb can you confirm?


Wait- you all DON'T have PDH requirements?


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Nov 9, 2021)

csb said:


> Wait- you all DON'T have PDH requirements?


WA doesn't have any.


----------



## steel (Nov 9, 2021)

ChebyshevII PE said:


> WA doesn't have any.


Neither does California. Though they're special and make it more difficult to get a license there so I guess it evens itself out that way.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Nov 9, 2021)

csb said:


> Wait- you all DON'T have PDH requirements?


There's a number of states that don't require any continuing education. According to this:

Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Washington

But the site may not be completely accurate. I know they still show the old LA continuing education requirement. LA's requirement changed in 2018 I think.






Professional Engineering CE Requirements by State | PDH Academy


Review our state-by-state guide to professional development requirements for professional engineers. Click here and select your state.




pdhacademy.com


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## leggo PE (Nov 9, 2021)

csb said:


> Wait- you all DON'T have PDH requirements?



Nope, at this point I think the BPELSG couldn’t handle it! I think we’re close to (if not surpassing) 100k civil engineers. Granted, that’s since they started registering them, but still, it would be a massive requirement. Of course, I will never say never!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 9, 2021)

jean15paul_PE said:


> There's a number of states that don't require any continuing education. According to this:
> 
> Arizona
> California
> ...


Shhh....don't tell the secret! *kicks up feet*


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## csb (Nov 9, 2021)

Well, let's hear it for the OG state keeping those PDH mills in business!


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## csb (Nov 9, 2021)

DuranDuran PE said:


> Fun fact: There is a "Professional Engineer's Day". I didn't know this. It's August 3rd, same as my parents' anniversary, who are still happily married after 53 years.
> 
> See below. Charles Bellamy became the first PE in Wyoming in 1907.
> 
> ...


Fun fact- this license used to be on display on the civil engineering floor of the University of Wyoming.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 10, 2021)

csb said:


> Wait- you all DON'T have PDH requirements?


Colorado represent!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Nov 10, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Colorado represent!


Representin'....slackers? *high five in lazy*


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## csb (Nov 15, 2021)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Colorado represent!


And this is why we'll remain the superior square state over those slackers without PDHs.


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## MadamPirate PE (Nov 16, 2021)

csb said:


> And this is why we'll remain the superior square state over those slackers without PDHs.


Eh, I gotta do PDH's for OR anyway...


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## leggo PE (Nov 16, 2021)

csb said:


> And this is why we'll remain the superior square state over those slackers without PDHs.


Are you actually a square, vs a rectangle? Sorry, had to.


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## csb (Nov 16, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> Are you actually a square, vs a rectangle? Sorry, had to.


We're more of a trapezoid, I suppose.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Dec 2, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> square


I'm listening.


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## Dothracki PE (Dec 2, 2021)

leggo PE said:


> Are you actually a square, vs a rectangle? Sorry, had to.


Are we talking about Rhode Island here?


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## steel (Mar 15, 2022)

steelnole15_PE said:


> All said, if (when) I see that coveted green "pass" box on NCEES in December, I'm getting the self-inking cause, see the nice kerplunk comment above! But I also may get an embossing seal cause they just look freaking incredible!


Update: green "pass" box seen, self-inking seal delivered, very satisfying kerplunk sound to test it out!  10/10, would recommend.


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## steel (Mar 15, 2022)

Also, I was discussing with my manager (who is licensed in over 15 states), what the best state seals are.

Here's my top 5:
1) Pennsylvania - I mean, that keystone look is just sweet!


2) Washington - A President's head on it? Has to be top-5 for sure!


3) Louisiana - I mean there's a PELICAN! Can't go wrong with that!


4) California - A bear on a seal? Awesome!


5) Wyoming - The first professional engineer hailed from this great state, plus there's a cowboy on it!


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Mar 15, 2022)

steelnole15_PE said:


> Also, I was discussing with my manager (who is licensed in over 15 states), what the best state seals are.
> 
> Here's my top 5:
> 1) Pennsylvania - I mean, that keystone look is just sweet!
> ...


Louisiana represent!


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Mar 15, 2022)

I will say, the pelican looks much better online than in person. There's a lot of fine detail in the pelican design that you can't really make out when you actually stamp something. It looks about like it does in the "zoomed out" version of the image above... as opposed to the full resolution. That being said, I still love it way more than a lot of states' boring stamps with just text in a circle.


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## Stewie (Mar 16, 2022)

Both pelican and bear were obtained. Love'em. XD


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## MI-Roger (Mar 17, 2022)

I have always found it unusual that Wyoming was the first State to issue the PE.
That being said, I learned 40 years ago from a very senior PE that when he obtained his Michigan license he only needed to drive to the State Capital with his College Diploma, sign his name in a Ledger Book, and pay $5. This might have been in the 1940's, maybe earlier. Boy have things changed!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Mar 17, 2022)

jean15paul_PE said:


> There's a lot of fine detail in the pelican design that you can't really make out


More like a peliCAN'T!

...I'll show myself out.


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## Creazyce (Mar 18, 2022)

steelnole15_PE said:


> Also, I was discussing with my manager (who is licensed in over 15 states), what the best state seals are.
> 
> Here's my top 5:
> 1) Pennsylvania - I mean, that keystone look is just sweet!
> ...


Gotta love Washington.... not only do we have a pretty awesome stamp, but we are one of the states that don't require continuing education.


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## MI-Roger (Mar 21, 2022)

Heads up to all Michigan License holders. Michigan Dept of Licensing changed the requirements for PE Seals / Stamps effective today. All licensees must obtain a compliant Stamp / Seal within 24 months.
That deadline is before my current license expires!
The new design is even less impressive than the old design, but requires inclusion of our expanded ten digit license number rather than the former five digit number, eventhough the last 5 digits of the new number matches the old 5 digit number.


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## steel (Mar 22, 2022)

Thanks for posting this! My manager is a Michigan PE and I reminded her to look at her stamp, but she says it already has a 10-digit number on it so she's good lol


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## Eng_Girl95 (Apr 20, 2022)

Question!

I just found out today I passed the PE Civil: Structural exam! I ordered my stamp, a self-inking one, and I was wondering: how do you all store your stamp when not in use? Do you lock it in a desk drawer? Do you leave it in an unlocked drawer? 

I have no reason to believe anyone will take my stamp and use it fraudulently, but I want to do what i can to make sure I will _never_ have a reason to believe that.


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## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Apr 20, 2022)

GirlEngineer said:


> Question!
> 
> I just found out today I passed the PE Civil: Structural exam! I ordered my stamp, a self-inking one, and I was wondering: how do you all store your stamp when not in use? Do you lock it in a desk drawer? Do you leave it in an unlocked drawer?
> 
> I have no reason to believe anyone will take my stamp and use it fraudulently, but I want to do what i can to make sure I will _never_ have a reason to believe that.


I keep mine locked in a desk drawer, in a locked case. Might be slightly overkill though.

Since stamp companies have no responsibility to check your information before supplying you with a stamp, theoretically that means anyone can order a stamp with your name and license information if they have access to it.


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## DLD PE (Apr 20, 2022)

I also keep mine in a locked box.


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## leggo PE (Apr 20, 2022)

Mine is simply in a drawer at my office desk.


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## NikR_PE (Apr 20, 2022)

Did someone just say SIMPLY


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## leggo PE (Apr 21, 2022)

HAVING


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## DLD PE (Apr 21, 2022)

A WONDERFUL


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## Dothracki PE (Apr 21, 2022)

NO


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Apr 21, 2022)

NikR_PE said:


> Did someone just say SIMPLY


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE (Apr 21, 2022)

On topic(-ish): mine is just loose in a box in a drawer somewhere. On the extremely rare occasions that I stamp things, the stamp is placed in CAD anyway. I don't know a single person who places a physical ink stamp. Who has time for that??? /s


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## txjennah PE (Apr 21, 2022)

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> On topic(-ish): mine is just loose in a box in a drawer somewhere. On the extremely rare occasions that I stamp things, the stamp is placed in CAD anyway. I don't know a single person who places a physical ink stamp. Who has time for that??? /s


My team leader is a geoscientist and he refuses to place his stamp in CAD. It's definitely caused some issues when we're trying to get something out at the last minute, but I also get it - he can stay in control of his stamp.

I had mine converted to CAD as well. On the rare occasions I stamp something, it's the signature page of a report, so a physical stamp definitely works the best for that.


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## Stewie (Apr 21, 2022)

txjennah PE said:


> My team leader is a geoscientist and he refuses to place his stamp in CAD. It's definitely caused some issues when we're trying to get something out at the last minute, but I also get it - he can stay in control of his stamp.
> 
> I had mine converted to CAD as well. On the rare occasions I stamp something, it's the signature page of a report, so a physical stamp definitely works the best for that.


Why did he refuse? Is he afraid someone may steal the electronic copy of his seal?


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## txjennah PE (Apr 21, 2022)

Stewie said:


> Why did he refuse? Is he afraid someone may steal the electronic copy of his seal?


I think he's concerned about his seal being plopped on figures without his consent.


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## DLD PE (Apr 21, 2022)

Stewie said:


> Why did he refuse? Is he afraid someone may steal the electronic copy of his seal?


This happened at my last firm and is the reason I left the company. The head of our electrical department was a non-PE (which was a problem to begin with) and he used another electrical engineer's PE seal (electronic) and applied the date to a drawing without his permission. I later found out this happened multiple times. 

I do not have an electronic seal. I have a wooden stamp with the rubber seal. When the time comes to seal a drawing, I stamp a small piece of paper with the seal, physically sign and date the seal, and scan the image as a .jpg. Then I go into photoshop and convert the image into a .png file. Then I insert it into the CAD file and create PDFs of the drawings. Every project has a unique signature/date, and I keep the piece of paper with each date and my stamp in a locked box. I keep a log in Excel of every project I sign, so if there's ever a question about something I signed, I can always compare it to the image I created for that project. I know it sounds paranoid, but I have my reasons.

A while back someone claimed it would be easy to "lift" the signature and date off the .pdf and copy my seal or signature without the date. I've yet to see how someone could do that, but I suppose it's possible.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Apr 21, 2022)

DLD PE said:


> A while back someone claimed it would be easy to "lift" the signature and date off the .pdf and copy my seal or signature without the date. I've yet to see how someone could do that, but I suppose it's possible.


It wouldn't be too difficult to take a screenshot of the stamp, bring it into an editor like Photoshop or Gimp, and edit out the signature and date.

But that being said it would probably be easier to just create a fake stamp from scratch. Get the generic "John Q Engineer" image from the board website and edit the text.

There is no 100% foolproof security, even with a physical stamp. It's just an issue of balancing the appropriate amount of security with the necessary convenience. If someone is committed to doing bad things, you can't really stop them. The goal is to make doing bad things difficult and inconvenient so they don't bother.


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## kevo_55 (Apr 21, 2022)

I seem to remember that we had a digital seal topic a few years ago.

I will say that it isn't an issue at my company. The digital signature company that we use locks down a PDF pretty good. Other people can stamp the document without invalidating the original signature.

It sure beats signing a 1000 page drawing set by hand.


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## Stewie (Apr 28, 2022)

DLD PE said:


> This happened at my last firm and is the reason I left the company. The head of our electrical department was a non-PE (which was a problem to begin with) and he used another electrical engineer's PE seal (electronic) and applied the date to a drawing without his permission. I later found out this happened multiple times.
> 
> I do not have an electronic seal. I have a wooden stamp with the rubber seal. When the time comes to seal a drawing, I stamp a small piece of paper with the seal, physically sign and date the seal, and scan the image as a .jpg. Then I go into photoshop and convert the image into a .png file. Then I insert it into the CAD file and create PDFs of the drawings. Every project has a unique signature/date, and I keep the piece of paper with each date and my stamp in a locked box. I keep a log in Excel of every project I sign, so if there's ever a question about something I signed, I can always compare it to the image I created for that project. I know it sounds paranoid, but I have my reasons.
> 
> A while back someone claimed it would be easy to "lift" the signature and date off the .pdf and copy my seal or signature without the date. I've yet to see how someone could do that, but I suppose it's possible.


Wow, I see now why ppl has concerns over the electronic seal!


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## EngineerDisaster (Apr 29, 2022)

I have the cad version of my stamp and my signature. They are stored on a network drive that no one else has access to (we each have private network space). That way I can load it when I need it, and use it. It is part of the record in CAD, but can only be accessed when I am logged in as me. It shows as a broken reference to anyone else.


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