# Who's taking the Electrical and Electronics next month?



## mjco04 (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm getting nervous about this upcoming exam. I don't think I've studied enough. I didn't take any antenna or communications course in college and after finishing the sample NCEES exam, I have no idea how I'm going to get some points in solving communications/antenna problems.

Does anyone have any last minute prep tips? Should I just focus on the bulk of the sections (General Engineering, Digital, and Electronics?)

Are the NCEES sample problems close to the actual problems in terms of the problem structure?

In your opinion, does the NCEES sample exam prepare you to what's in the actual PE exam?

Thanks,

-Mike


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## joepwr13 (Apr 3, 2013)

Review the NCEES exam spec to ensure you have covered everything.


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## mjco04 (Apr 7, 2013)

Hi joepwr13. I did review the NCEES exam and I'm comfortable with most of the questions after seeing the solutions. The PM section is definitely a lot trickier than the AM.


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## bseepeguy (Apr 9, 2013)

I'll be taking the E&amp;E Friday too. It is my understanding that the NCEES sample test is as close as you can get to the real thing. Good luck!


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## snobumPE (Apr 10, 2013)

The NCEES exam is definitely the closest thing to the real test, and really the only thing I found that was representative of the test. I really had no idea about most of the antenna problems. I know it's a little late for you now, but as I studied I went though and took notes on everything. As it got closer to the test, I assembled a binder by topic with all the info and formulas I thought I would need, and some practice problems in the back.

Since I had so many sources, I can't tell you exactly where I got most of the antenna stuff from.

Some basic things:

Make sure you can convert Watts to dBm

Realize that a +3dBm increase is roughly double power, -3dBm is roughly half power

Be able to convert wavelength to frequency

If you have the Camera book, look over the equations in Chapter 46, Section 3, 10, 13, and Chapter 47.

I believe I had to look up noise factor, noise figure, and noise temperature separately, but think it came in handy.

I had ZERO experience with antennas, so I really just tried to get the basics for the test.


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## mjco04 (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks snobumPE. I don't have antenna and communication background so I struggle with the concept of predicting the radiation pattern and noise topics. Thanks for the pointers. I did created a binder with PDF of specific topics online with sample problems. (transistor biasing, amplifier, noise, A/D-D/A stuff, and formula sheets) I will start putting tabs to each section.

I need to get easy points in the AM section on those sections as well. My preparation has not been great so it's going to be interesting on Friday.

Hey bseepeguy, where are you taking the exam? Is there any specific topic that you have a tough time grasping? Good luck to you and hopefully the odds will be in our favor. 

-Mike


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## bseepeguy (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey Mike,

I am taking the test in Cleveland. Antennas are a challenge... seems like you either know it or you don't. I never found a reference for how the radiation pattern changes based on frequency like NCEES problem 127.


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## mjco04 (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm taking the exam in NY. Just chilling out now and hoping for the best. I did what I could to study.


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## pakiterp (Apr 16, 2013)

So if you guys took the PE Electrical Electronics Exam then how do you think you did? I think exam was average difficulty and I think I did well enough to pass. Only time will tell.


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## mjco04 (Apr 16, 2013)

I think I did OK. Communication was my weakness and I had to guess quite a number of problems. 

And I missed on some supposedly easy points questions. I'm not holding my breath but I'm still hoping for the best. I have that kind of optimism. lol

What areas did you have some trouble with?


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## pakiterp (Apr 16, 2013)

Yeah, I think Communication was also tough on me. Some electronic was tricky but not that bad. Optimism is a really good thing and I think you will pass if you did well on other subjects.


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## desi_girl (Apr 17, 2013)

I took the electronics exam too. I felt the AM section was harder than the PM one. I had studied the comms section pretty well, but never got a chance to revise it before the exam, so it was as bad as not studying at all.

This was my 2nd attempt. Last April's exam was SO hard. I barely managed to attempt 55-60% of the questions of which I got almost all right, but failed the test. This time the exam seemed straightforword. However, I do think that many questions were tricky and I read all such questions twice, but only time will tell if my answers were correct.

Do you know how they decide the cutoff score? I read that it is not a simple cutoff but is based on a number of factors.

Also does each state have its own scoring policy or do they adopt the general policy?


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## pakiterp (Apr 17, 2013)

I think they have already have decided a cut off score before the exam and adjust it later based on throwing some questions out and equating the test to make it similar difficulty with past exams. I don't think cut score will change too much from previous time you took it.


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## mjco04 (Apr 17, 2013)

Did they say what the passing score the previous exams? Been hearing about the 70% guarantee passing score.

I hope they throw out all the communications questions.


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## pakiterp (Apr 17, 2013)

They never give out the passing score. 70% is a scaled score so it doesn't mean anything from exam to exam. I have never heard anyone getting higher than 51 and failing on Electrical Power exam which doesn't mean anything for Electronics exam. But I think Electronic passing score has to be near that too b/c passing score to them is minimum competency for an engineer which shouldn't change too much for different fields of Electrical Engineering. I think they throw out questions with unusual statistics.


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## desi_girl (Apr 18, 2013)

pakiterp said:


> They never give out the passing score. 70% is a scaled score so it doesn't mean anything from exam to exam. I have never heard anyone getting higher than 51 and failing on Electrical Power exam which doesn't mean anything for Electronics exam. But I think Electronic passing score has to be near that too b/c passing score to them is minimum competency for an engineer which shouldn't change too much for different fields of Electrical Engineering. I think they throw out questions with unusual statistics.




I have also been reading that around 60-65% is passing..There were posts about scores of 52-53 and failing..So I am confused.

I read that the cut score fluctuates with the minimum/ average score, for example, if the exam was easy, more candidates will score better so cutoff will increase. I dont know if this is true, but I read it somewhere. Doesnt make sense to me 

Is the number of PE chosen by the state decided by a general rule or does each state have their own criteria? Does the number of candiates taking the exam, the test level (easy, hard etc.) affect the cutoff score at all?


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## pakiterp (Apr 18, 2013)

You read post about 52-53 for Electronics Exam and fail? Yes cutoff score can change but it is highly unlikely that it goes above 56. They have pre determined the cut score for an exam before it is given. It can change based on exam difficuly and ambiguous problems but that will most like will bring it down. States or NCEES does not decide how many candidates they will pass. They are just testing if you meet the minimum competency for an engineer. NCEES usually set the cut score and most states agree with them. So you can transfer your PE from one state to other. If all states have different criteria then you might be qualified in one state but not in another. I think only test difficulty and ambiguous problems affect the cut score and it has not dependency on number of candidates. You might be thinking about a curve which is popular in schools but this is not a curve.


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## Dark Knight (Apr 18, 2013)

Friendly advice...

Forget about the cut score. Is the best kept secret in the engineering world. It would be whatever the gods at the Olympus (NCEES at South Carolina) decide it is and that is the bottom line. Unless you had 100% of the questions right there is no guarantee you will pass. There are too many factors without taking into consideration the business side of it.

So, wrapping up this, do not torture yourself thinking if you needed 60,65, 70, 75, or 100 questions right to pass because it is not up to you to decide. Just wait and have some fun here while you do it.


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## Judowolf PE (Apr 18, 2013)

DK is absolutely right, the pursuit of the cut score is futile...it is what it is. If you're depending on the cut score to save you then you should start studying for the next test now. I'd guess that the passing score is very close to 56(out of 80), it may drop a little lower if there are questions thrown out. There are threads devoted to cut score and they are fun to read, but in the end no one outside of the NCEES board knows. if you haven't taken the test yet, shoot for 90-100%, then if you fall a little short you'll hopefully still pass...


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## desi_girl (Apr 18, 2013)

pakiterp said:


> You read post about 52-53 for Electronics Exam and fail? Yes cutoff score can change but it is highly unlikely that it goes above 56. They have pre determined the cut score for an exam before it is given. It can change based on exam difficuly and ambiguous problems but that will most like will bring it down. States or NCEES does not decide how many candidates they will pass. They are just testing if you meet the minimum competency for an engineer. NCEES usually set the cut score and most states agree with them. So you can transfer your PE from one state to other. If all states have different criteria then you might be qualified in one state but not in another. I think only test difficulty and ambiguous problems affect the cut score and it has not dependency on number of candidates. You might be thinking about a curve which is popular in schools but this is not a curve.




@Pakiterp, I read about "some" score of 52 and fail, but I do not recollect which exam. Posts on Electronics test are so rare and of very less help.

I agree with what you say above, it sounds logical.


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## Judowolf PE (Apr 18, 2013)

desi, I'm sure you know already, but there isn't much out there for help and/or information on the electrical/electronics exam, I debated taking it, but opted for the power exam just for the simple fact that for electricals, there is so much more out there for prep and study material, not to mention practice test material. I'm not saying that the practice material is that great for power, but at least it exists! Best of luck on your results!


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## mjco04 (Apr 19, 2013)

Judowolf, the NCEES practice exam for Electronics was actually quite helpful even though we only get one. 

But yes I agree with you, reviewing for EE Electronics is like going to college but trying to finish it in 6 months! Insane!!!


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## Judowolf PE (Apr 19, 2013)

mjc, there is only one NCEES practice test as well for power, but there are a few companies that make practice tests..the NCEES is the closest to the real thing, but the others are a good revue but not of the same difficulty as the real test.


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## pakiterp (May 22, 2013)

Passed Electrical and Electronics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mjco04 (May 22, 2013)

Hey pakiterp, this is not some kind of a joke to get everybody nervous, is it? Which state did you take the exam?


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## brian84 (May 22, 2013)

It is legit, I am in Arizona and got my results today. Electrical &amp; Electronics, passed!!!!


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## pakiterp (May 23, 2013)

mjco04 results are out in AZ.


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