# Failed again - 3rd try, now what?



## schmidty99 (May 26, 2011)

Guys: I just got the word today that I failed the Electronics test again, with no diagnostic improvement (44/80). That was my third try, and I feel a bit like giving up. Self-studying obviously isn't working and I can't find a electronics refresher. I'm thinking about switching to Power if for nothing else the ability to be able to find a viable refresher course to help me prepare. I would guess 90% of the people out here are Power.

Thoughts and suggestions?? I'm desperate....


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## SpacedOut31416 (May 26, 2011)

I took Electrical Power and passed. Here are my suggestions.

1. Used Villa Nova online course in PE Review Electrical Power

2. Tried to thoroughly understand NCEES sample test in E. Power

3. Worked through some of the Camara and Schaum's outlines problems

4. Studied and worked problems from a couple of EE power course textbooks I had

5. Found a lot of helpful info on the Internet (e.g., protective relaying)

6. Got familiar with the first 4 chapters of the 2008 NEC (plus important tables ch. 9, Annex, etc.)

7. Worked NEC example problems from 2008 handbook, Mike Holt, etc.

8. Bought Tom Henry's index to the NEC

9. Made my own (large) notebook of formulas and example problems from the NEC

10. Made sure I understood how much time I had and not get stuck on one problem

Also, look at the thread on success strategies.

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry6887925

And this thread on review courses.

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=16035

It has been 17 years since I graduated with my EE degree, and I passed this April. I prepared for 10 months.

I hope this helps you.


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## MSEE (May 26, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> Guys: I just got the word today that I failed the Electronics test again, with no diagnostic improvement (44/80). That was my third try, and I feel a bit like giving up. Self-studying obviously isn't working and I can't find a electronics refresher. I'm thinking about switching to Power if for nothing else the ability to be able to find a viable refresher course to help me prepare. I would guess 90% of the people out here are Power.
> Thoughts and suggestions?? I'm desperate....


Unless you work in the power design field (ex:MEP company), i think you should stick with EE if it is what you have studied in school.

By know, you are an expert in the exam (lets be positive about it). you know what to expect, you know your strength and weakness. put more time into the area that needs improvement. i failed in October and thank God i passed this time. i took a course last time but it was not effective. my main suggestion: UNDERSTAND THE THEORY AND THE CONCEPTS, than do the Camara and other sample exams.

Take communication, electronics (BJT,MOSFET...), basic electrical circuit , Control, Digital (two's complement. and gate....) to the exam.

set up a good study schedule (2 months) before the exam and stick to it. You shall pass last time. Last but not leaST, DON'T EVER GIVE UP.

NB: I know how you feel, it easy t give advise when you one passes, but you got no other options but to charge ahead


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## willsee (May 27, 2011)

IMO Taking the power exam won't help you if you don't work in power.


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## cableguy (May 27, 2011)

I think his point is, obviously his current method of studying isn't working, and he can't find a decent Electronics review course. Power review courses are everywhere.

I think if you give yourself enough time, and take a GOOD review course, you can do power. There will be some questions that you won't know the answers to unless you've been in industry, but I think you can *pass* based on study and a review. Plus, you'll get to learn about a field that you're not currently as familiar with (learning more is always a good thing!). Who knows, maybe it'll lead to a career path change as well (did for me  ).

People were surprised when they heard that I was taking Power - I'm a computer guy (programming, databases, OS, networking, firewalls, security) and an electronics geek (I heat up the soldering iron almost daily). But I chose Power because it was the one that offered the most review courses and training. I could have gone either way. I did have a transmission &amp; distribution design class back in 1995 that helped, but I took the exam in 2010. I enjoyed the Power studying so much that in August I applied for and got a job as a Protective Relaying &amp; Substation Design engineer. So it's what I do now, and I use what I learned all the time.

I think you can do it. If you can grasp the basics, with a review course, everything else will fall in to place.


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## CincinnatiControlsGuy (May 27, 2011)

Bummer. I'm sorry to hear that you've failed. However, Cableguy is absolutely right in that you should give yourself time. In fact, I would avoid the October exam and focus on April of next year. I can tell you that I started studying for the Oct. '10 exam in Feb. '10; given the late exam date that was nearly 9 months of studying. As for studying, I would, as the other posters have noted, hammer the fundamentals. In particular, start by boning up on Calculus and then hit your Circuit Analysis book from college, cover to cover and doing as many problems as you can (in fact, try and do them all). This will guarantee you, from what I saw of the exam and with regards to the exam format, at least 50% correct responses. Think about a lot of the problems and you'll notice that they boil down to basic circuit analysis concepts and mathematics. After you feel like you can TEACH circuit analysis, have at the EERM again. However, this time it will be easier because of your solid foundation (think trying to dunk a basketball from a trampoline vs. a concrete floor).

In any case, don't do anything for a month. Enjoy June. Shoot for the day after the 4th of July to start up again knowing that you have tons of time to study. If you don't feel like you're going to make it by April, kick it down the road to Oct. '12.


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## schmidty99 (May 27, 2011)

GB: So you're saying stick with the Electronics and give myself more time to study? The worst part I felt this was the best prepared I'd ever been for the exam (thanks mainly to you and EB.com) and still I did WORSE by 2 points!! It would be different if I showed some considerable improvement, but worse!? Ugh. Granted I know I got my butt kicked in the morning session, but I was very comfortable that I did well in the P.M. Anyway, I'm wondering if I'm in a study rut with the electronics.

I guess I'm wondering if moving into Power would give me a fresh start. But if several folks think you can't pass the power exam without working in the industry, its not good either. I don't know what to do. If I could get some new exam-style electronics problems, that would help a lot.

Cableguy: It goes to show that it can be done. Maybe I'll get the power exam problems and see if I can make heads or tails of them.

Please keep the opinions coming....


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## willsee (May 27, 2011)

I was the only one to say that but cableguy said he didn't come from a power background and he passed so I would go with his opinion over mine.

At the very least you can look through some power material and see how you feel about it.


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## snickerd3 (May 27, 2011)

don't compare percents from two exam sittings...the test content is different so it is not a fair comparison jsut looking at that. Comparing the diagnostic sheets would be a better comparison to see where you are still stronger and where you are weaker.


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## harriee (May 27, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> GB: So you're saying stick with the Electronics and give myself more time to study? The worst part I felt this was the best prepared I'd ever been for the exam (thanks mainly to you and EB.com) and still I did WORSE by 2 points!! Granted I know I got my butt kicked in the morning session, but I was very comfortable that I did well in the P.M. Anyway, I'm wondering if I'm in a study rut with the electronics.
> I guess I'm wondering if moving into Power would give me a fresh start. But if several folks think you can't pass the power exam without working in the industry, its not good either. I don't know what to do. If I could get some new exam-style problems, that would help.
> 
> Please keep the opinions coming....


Its a bummer. i failed the first time with Electronics in October 2010 and my score was 50/80. I found out my weakness was electronics and communication. There are some free online study materials which are available if you find the books are not helping you. It was very helpful for me. I also put extra effort in Controls, Digital, ELectromagnetics, General Engineering as those were my strengths and wanted to get atleast 95% correct on those and it could give me some breathing space in Electronics and communications. I passed this time and I think that strategy worked.


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## knight1fox3 (May 27, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> don't compare percents from two exam sittings...the test content is different so it is not a fair comparison jsut looking at that. Comparing the diagnostic sheets would be a better comparison to see where you are still stronger and where you are weaker.


Agreed. If you took the _same_ exam twice you could compare your scores. But that is not the case so that comparison shouldn't be made. If you would be willing, it might be helpful to post your diagnostics from the previous two exams. FWIW, as a 2nd time exam taker, I can tell you that changing study habits is a MUST. I'm not sure if you've tried this but I looked at how I studied the first time and completely changed my approach the second time. As a fellow Wisconsinite, have you considered making a trip to any of the major UW engineering schools? In particular, at UW-Platteville, I know they do PE exam reviews 2 months or so prior to each exam session on various topics (as profs are available). I believe they are after hours so you could probably just sit in on them if you wanted. And again, I'm also not sure what reviews would specifically be done for the electronics portion of the exam. Perhaps UW-Madison or UW-Milwaukee do something similar. Just a suggestion. I know with work that could be quite a hassle but maybe there is something put on during weekends. Again, like I said, it's pertinent that you look at what you did to study previously and try changing it up as best you can. Another thing that helped me was that instead of just ripping through problems trying to get the correct solutions, I would actually write down the concept and equation(s) being referenced for the problem on my "cheat sheet". This became an invaluable reference during the exam.

Here is another thought (sorry for all my ramblings and random ideas), I worked with a very helpful professor (Dr. Russ Callen) during my online GA Tech course I took (power review). I wonder if you email him and ask if he has any recommendations for some type of electronics review course (possibly offered by GA Tech) what he would say. Again, he was pretty responsive and always willing to help. I will PM you his email address. Hope that helps! Good luck schmidty99.


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## cableguy (May 27, 2011)

I do feel like I need to say, I do come from a bit of a power background... I've worked in the utility industry since graduating from college in 1993. So I was "around it" all along. But, I was a controls system (SCADA) person, which was more communications, computers, networks, etc. And I've always been an electronics tinkerer with my own printed circuit boards and applications. While I did technically deal with power, my focus was getting the data from the substation and put it in front of an operator at HQ. I grabbed the data and put it on the screen. So I have been around bus designs, CTs, breakers, relays, one lines, etc - but never dealt with them in depth.


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## wes21 (May 27, 2011)

I have been a lurker on the board since I decided to take the test - everything approved in Fall '10.

I come from a Telecom background with some time at an MEP firm doing basicly "Special Systems" with a little power mixed in there. BS EET in 1995 - 15 yrs out of school. I decided to take the power for the exact reason OP cited - more review materials. Started studying in Jan 2011 - mostly sample exams, fundamentals of transformers, PU, heavy on the NEC and some lighting and ECON. I took vacation the week of the exam and went to the library for 8 hrs /day doing problems and reading the NEC. Coming out of the test I felt fairly confident - but the more I thought about probelms on the test the less confident I became. Just got results of a PASS. So, I agree with cableguy, with the wide variety of study materials and prep courses the POWER test is "do-able".

GOOD LUCK in whatever area you try - just keep trying!!


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## schmidty99 (May 27, 2011)

My last two diagnostics are virtually the same. With some stupid mistakes I'm sure. There is room for improvement everywhere.

I live in West Central Wisconsin, and the local universities don't offer much in the way of engineering. Getting to Platteville or Madison would not be feasible (3 to 4 hour drive) and I have not found a distance learning review from them.

Hariee: do you have a website for those study materials?

Thanks for all the suggestions. Keep them coming!


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## monsterbbb (May 29, 2011)

Just change to power, I didn't focus on power in college, but the material in power is very easy to understand. No complicated math, just sin and cos, and phasor, super easy, if the goal is just for licnese, take the easiest one, not the one you studied in college.


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## maryannette (May 29, 2011)

NEVER give up. I passed on my 4th attempt. My situation was different, but similar to yours. I studied Civil. I ended up building a career in Mechanical. Failed ME PE exam 3 times. Switched to Civil and took a good review class. Passed Civil. Now working in Civil/Construction.

DO NOT GIVE UP. If the review course will get you a pass, do it.


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## solomonb (May 29, 2011)

Let's see if I can give you some insight that may be beneficial. I do not know your study protocol or what you studied. Now that you have the diagnostic reports from your prior test experiences, review and see where you are deficient. The diagnostic reports identify areas where you did not do as well as expected. I would then go to the NCEES site and download the test specifications for your discipline. Develop a mapping between your diagnostic report and the specific test specifications. This should tell you what areas require more effort and concentration. This is the areas where you will need to put in additional study effort in order to pass the examinaton.

Here is what I suspect is happening-- you may not have as good a grasp of the subject matter as is required. Remember, the test is designed to identify the MIMIMALLY COMPETENT engineer. An academic colleague the other day told me that what this meant in simple terms is separating the F student from the D student. I never thought of it that way, however, think that he is correct.

Now, you are a smart guy! You got through your undergraduate degree and found a job. You are NOT A BONEHEAD-- your boss still loves you. (I suspect the same can be said about your spouse as well!)

The test is designed to do a problem in 6 minutes or less. By definition, the problem has to be of a nature that you should be able to see, by inspection, what is required and how to complete the problem. If you are taking more time than 6 minutes per problem, then you need to review the fundamentals to a greater degree to more fully understand the subject matter being tested.

Perhaps finding a study buddy will be of benefit to you. Remember, the test is designed to identify the minimally competent engineer--don't overthink the problem. I believe that becomes a challenge the longer you have been in the field or have advanced education. Recall that the test is designed to identify the knowledge that an engineer 4-6 years out of school should be able to perform. This is a bachelor's level examination-- you can do this.

I would also plan on expecting to do 92% of everything on the exam specification. Overkill you say? No, great planning for a successful examination. If, in fact, you do 92% of everything on the exam, you will pass with no problems. If you do less than 92% on one part, but do well on the other parts, the "good" parts should push you over the hump.

Good Luck on your next endeavor. I have great faith in your skills and abilities.


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## schmidty99 (May 31, 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone! I don't intend to give up on this, and I definitely need to weigh my options. I've been in contact with the instructor for the Georgia Tech online course, and he thinks he can help me. Whether it be in Electronics or Power. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again for all the suggestions and words of encouragement!


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## wjrez (May 31, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone! I don't intend to give up on this, and I definitely need to weigh my options. I've been in contact with the instructor for the Georgia Tech online course, and he thinks he can help me. Whether it be in Electronics or Power. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again for all the suggestions and words of encouragement!


I am somewhat in a similar boat, I took the PE Power test for the first time in April and failed with a 44/80. I bought the PPI Camera books and the NCEES test manual and took a PE prep course at a local college (although they suggested the entire Camera/PPI suite of books, they never used them as a reference - made me nuts!! :Locolaugh: ). Now I am struggling as to what to do next with respect for prepping for October. I would like to attempt to take an on line course that is aligned to the books I already bought and I have not heard many good things about the "Passing Zone"and I do not think I can just "read" material and focus like I need to. Based on that, I would like the opinions of the esteemed members of this board to provide some sage wisdom my way. The more I think about the time, money and investment I have made to date, I feel like I should just pack it in and coast to retirement (I have been out of school over 30 years), but I feel I was close, just not close enough. Please advise.

Thanks


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## Saral Dwivedi (Sep 7, 2017)

harriee said:


> Its a bummer. i failed the first time with Electronics in October 2010 and my score was 50/80. I found out my weakness was electronics and communication. There are some free online study materials which are available if you find the books are not helping you. It was very helpful for me. I also put extra effort in Controls, Digital, ELectromagnetics, General Engineering as those were my strengths and wanted to get atleast 95% correct on those and it could give me some breathing space in Electronics and communications. I passed this time and I think that strategy worked.


Harriee: how many QUESTIONS u did correctly when u pass the exam?


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 7, 2017)

@ptatohed

Resurrecting a 6+ year old thread! BOOM!


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## TWJ PE (Sep 7, 2017)

That takes skill.


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## Saral Dwivedi (Sep 8, 2017)

schmidty99 said:


> Guys: I just got the word today that I failed the Electronics test again, with no diagnostic improvement (44/80). That was my third try, and I feel a bit like giving up. Self-studying obviously isn't working and I can't find a electronics refresher. I'm thinking about switching to Power if for nothing else the ability to be able to find a viable refresher course to help me prepare. I would guess 90% of the people out here are Power.
> 
> Thoughts and suggestions?? I'm desperate....


Let's do it together. I am also preparing for Electrical and electronics. I have purchased Schaum's series couple of days back yet to receive. whats your plan? Please  email me at [email protected] Hope for best.


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