# Taking the SE Lateral and Vertical the same time



## qasimcivil (Feb 1, 2022)

How many of you are planning to take the SE Vertical & Lateral (Depth is Bridges for me) the same week end (April 2022)? I have registered for the same time but now getting nervous as reading on different places that it seems to be highly recommended to take the 2 exams separately. Have any of you tried taking it the same weekend and your thoughts or if you are in the same boat as me on intending to take at the same time. Appreciate the input and sharing your experience.


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## psustruct (Feb 1, 2022)

I have heard testimonies from many people that it is possible to pass both in one shot. It depends on the following: 


your knowledge depth with the NCEES criteria outlined on their website.
How well you know building codes since about 75% of morning questions are on buildings.
Practice many problems in a timed environment. 
Purchase the NCEES sample exam so you are familiar with the exam format. The sample exam is easier then the past few exams.
Luck of the draw that the exams are in sync with your knowledge depth.
I past the vertical 4 years ago after taking it 4 times. Now I have taken the lateral 4 times. I thought i had passed it in The October session, but I was scoop far off base. And a few others thought the same.... Total letdown.

Good luck with your studies. Probably want to strive for atleast 300 study hours per exam. Increase that as you come across weak areas.


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## Reverse Polish (Feb 2, 2022)

qasimcivil said:


> How many of you are planning to take the SE Vertical & Lateral (Depth is Bridges for me) the same week end (April 2022)? I have registered for the same time but now getting nervous as reading on different places that it seems to be highly recommended to take the 2 exams separately. Have any of you tried taking it the same weekend and your thoughts or if you are in the same boat as me on intending to take at the same time. Appreciate the input and sharing your experience.



It's definitely possible to pass both portions of the exam on the same weekend. The prevailing argument for this approach is that, if you happen to pass both in the same weekend, you've truncated what can be a long, drawn-out process. In other words--if you have an opportunity to accomplish the goal in one weekend instead of adding another (minimum) 6 months to the timeline, why not? One can argue that it's easier to study for two exams simultaneously (mentally staying in "the zone") rather than taking a forced break and throwing yourself back into a second round of drudgery (that is, assuming you pass the first portion). It all depends on how well you know yourself and your strengths--we all have different professional experience and aptitudes. 

With that said, sitting for both exams the same weekend takes commitment. Like, 300-400 hours of studying commitment, and knowing the referenced codes inside-out, forward-and-backward. For an April exam date, I would expect that you would have begun studying sometime in the middle of last summer if you're going to sit for both portions of the exam. 

I'm not necessarily advocating this approach, but just saying that it's achievable.


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## qasimcivil (Feb 2, 2022)

Thanks guys for your feedback. My hard luck is that I started off by preparing for the lateral exams as it is a weak strength for me (living and working on the east coast) and was planning to catch up on the vertical while nearing the exam; however I guess we have till Feb 24 to apply for any refund; so will have to call the shot before that. I just hate the drudge to go back in study hibernation for another 6 months and pass the remaining exam.


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## Reverse Polish (Feb 2, 2022)

qasimcivil said:


> Thanks guys for your feedback. My hard luck is that I started off by preparing for the lateral exams as it is a weak strength for me (living and working on the east coast) and was planning to catch up on the vertical while nearing the exam; however I guess we have till Feb 24 to apply for any refund; so will have to call the shot before that. I just hate the drudge to go back in study hibernation for another 6 months and pass the remaining exam.



The other approach you can take is to sit for both portions (the marginal time cost is virtually nil), and see how you do on the lateral. If you don't receive an "Acceptable", you'll at least receive some kind of feedback that you would not have had if you outright skip it, and you'll get a sense of what the exam looks like. On the other hand, you could surprise yourself!

As a non-West Coast engineer myself, I applaud you for making the effort to learn more about seismic design. Many engineers in our part of the country ignore it (or do the rudimentary base shear calcs and say, "Meh, wind governs"), but seismic provisions can arise when you least expect them. Props for making yourself a better engineer!


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## Shannonsider_2016 (Feb 2, 2022)

qasimcivil said:


> Thanks guys for your feedback. My hard luck is that I started off by preparing for the lateral exams as it is a weak strength for me (living and working on the east coast) and was planning to catch up on the vertical while nearing the exam; however I guess we have till Feb 24 to apply for any refund; so will have to call the shot before that. I just hate the drudge to go back in study hibernation for another 6 months and pass the remaining exam.


"Nothing ventured, nothing gained" - I think that either way is going to be OK, the main thing is it's better to try than not at all - so fair play to you! There's pro's and con's of either approach, but for me the biggest thing is time management. If you are taking both components together, you need to make sure you invest the time.

I took both components for the first time in April 2021 (Depth Bridges), started studying 2nd week of January with AEI-California courses, and passed Vertical and failed Lateral (23/40 and A/A/A) and passed Lateral in October. For me it was worth it to take both at the same time, as I only needed to pass 1 and I could focus entirely on the other component the next cycle. Personally I would recommend you focusing your time on primarily preparing for the Vertical (largest scope but easier based on your experience) and have Lateral be your secondary focus. 

Here's my suggestions, hopefully you might find them useful:
* Plan out your available study time and stick to it. Don't push off reviewing your strongest topics until the end (like in my case - I didn't study AASHTO depth until the very end for both Vertical and Lateral because I was too focused on studying what I didn't know - i.e. buildings). 

* Organize your notes into subject-specific binders and add tabs for quick reference. Develop a key for examples that you can find quickly during the exam.

* Put together a quick reference binder (i.e. "cheat sheets"). In there I put only a few sheets from each subject that I used to solve most AM questions without opening my more detailed subject-specific binders. For instance, for Bridges-Lateral I had the AASHTO Load Combinations, all AASHTO sheets related to seismic analysis/design (there aren't that many - and you can mark them up), equations for pier stiffness, examples on SM/UM analysis, etc...

* Do as many example problems as possible

* Learn exam strategies. For instance in the AM, read through the first 10 questions slowly without answering any of them. Mark the difficulty of each as 1(easy), 2(moderate), 3(difficult). Then go back and answer all of the 1's and 2's, skip the 3's. Repeat for the next 10 questions, etc... You don't want to get to the end of the exam with 5 easy questions left but only 5 minutes left to solve - best to solve the low-hanging fruit first. 

Hope this help...


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## JDrew (Feb 2, 2022)

I took both this October on my first attempt and fortunately I passed both exams. I thought about it like Reverse Polish and others said above: Hopefully I pass at least one, but if I pass both the first time it'll shorten the process. Feels great to have it behind me now, really glad I suffered and went for both. 

Here are my thoughts on exam preparation and some exam day suggestions: (in addition to what others have stated)

 I devoted a ton of time before work and on weekends in the year leading up to October. Wake up early before work and study; I typically got up at 5am to study for 2 hours or so. This will prep you for waking up early to sit for the exam. 
Develop your own "cheat sheets" with quick references as you study. You'll use it more than you think.
Take a prep course. PPI and AEI are the ones I am familiar with, and both are useful investments. AEI is better for Lateral, PPI is sufficient for Gravity. 
Be fully prepared and organized on exam day. Pack your lunch for exam day, have cooler in your car. Bring extra calculators and straight edges. Use milk crates, plastic bags, and a dolly or folding wagon. 
Make sure you buy or print every code, and make sure you have the correct version for the test. Don't use old versions of code references. 
My strategy for multiple choice: Go thru the exam questions from 1 to 40 questions and immediately solve any questions you're 100% comfortable with. I skipped all AASHTO questions and any question I didn't have full confidence in. Was able to answer about 20 questions that way, then I went back and did the AASHTO ones, then I answered others randomly as I saw fit from easy to hardest. Guessed on any remaining questions with about 5 minutes left. 
My strategy for written questions: Skim each question quickly so you can identify the ones you are most comfortable with. Start with the easiest question and move on to each question in order of your confidence level. Wear a watch and time yourself. I made sure I didn't spend more than an hour on any question. I left time to come back at the end and finish any section I didn't answer. I used a watch with a rotating bezel, made it really easy to time in 1 hour increments. 
Good luck, and don't give up. It is all worth it in the end.


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## qasimcivil (Feb 2, 2022)

Shannonsider_2016 said:


> "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" - I think that either way is going to be OK, the main thing is it's better to try than not at all - so fair play to you! There's pro's and con's of either approach, but for me the biggest thing is time management. If you are taking both components together, you need to make sure you invest the time.
> 
> I took both components for the first time in April 2021 (Depth Bridges), started studying 2nd week of January with AEI-California courses, and passed Vertical and failed Lateral (23/40 and A/A/A) and passed Lateral in October. For me it was worth it to take both at the same time, as I only needed to pass 1 and I could focus entirely on the other component the next cycle. Personally I would recommend you focusing your time on primarily preparing for the Vertical (largest scope but easier based on your experience) and have Lateral be your secondary focus.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your feedback and positive vibes. I have a strongly feeling to go for both the components and try my level best. Can you possibly give me a sample/example of Cheat Sheets you have referred to...Is it like writing formulas and units for various components of the design. You can PM me if possible. APpreciate your input.


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## qasimcivil (Feb 2, 2022)

JDrew said:


> I took both this October on my first attempt and fortunately I passed both exams. I thought about it like Reverse Polish and others said above: Hopefully I pass at least one, but if I pass both the first time it'll shorten the process. Feels great to have it behind me now, really glad I suffered and went for both.
> 
> Here are my thoughts on exam preparation and some exam day suggestions: (in addition to what others have stated)
> 
> ...


Thank you for your feedback and sharing your experience. Putting in more effort and time can be helpful to prepare for this tough exams as we are also working professionals. You would invest 2 hours before work; how much were you investing after work and also on weekends and how much ealrier did you srart for the exams. Appreciate your input.


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## Shannonsider_2016 (Feb 3, 2022)

qasimcivil said:


> Thank you for your feedback and positive vibes. I have a strongly feeling to go for both the components and try my level best. Can you possibly give me a sample/example of Cheat Sheets you have referred to...Is it like writing formulas and units for various components of the design. You can PM me if possible. APpreciate your input.



Unfortunately I can't share an example, as the primary "cheat sheets" I have are either from the AEI course/ codes (copyright). However, if you are doing a online course, do they have a summary/quick reference of the most important information for each topic?

For Seismic Building AM-Lateral my "cheat sheets" were about 20 sheets of paper.
* Summary notes from AEI (if you don't have these, then create your own - a condensed version of your most important notes - i.e. determining structure period, site class, Response Spectrum, Base Shear, etc...)
* Quick reference tables of Determining S_DS/S_D1 using given S_S/S_1
* Copy of ASCE T12.2-1 (R factors etc for SFRS's) - very useful as I didn't have to open up the ASCE manual very often for that info
* Copy of ASCE T13.5-1/T13.6-1/T15.5-1/2
* Definition of Risk Categories
* Determination of Redundancy Factors
* ASCE + IBC Load Combinations

I had a single binder with a comb binder that I had "cheat sheets" for every subject, and a different color tab for each subject for quick reference. I then used that binder to answer most of the AM questions, was familiar with the location of the information from having it with me when solving practice problems, and found I had plenty of time in the exam. 

I hope that helps.


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## JDrew (Feb 17, 2022)

qasimcivil said:


> Thank you for your feedback and sharing your experience. Putting in more effort and time can be helpful to prepare for this tough exams as we are also working professionals. You would invest 2 hours before work; how much were you investing after work and also on weekends and how much ealrier did you srart for the exams. Appreciate your input.



My goal every weekend was to spend 8 hours studying in addition to the 2 hours before work every day. I never studied after work, I spent that time with family and for resting. Max time studying per week was about 20 hours, minimum time 10 hours. All in all I probably spent about 500 hours studying in the year leading up to the exam (taking some weeks off for break time to avoid burn out).

Another good tip for you, save up your PTO time and take off the entire week of the exam. Exam was on Thursday Friday for me. I spent Saturday thru Tuesday before the exam studying about 12 hours a day. Wednesday was a de-stress and travel day. Cramming does not work for everyone, but I think it worked well for me. 

I got a hotel for both nights before the exam, as close as I could get to our exam location. Exam day I woke up around 5 to 6 am (my normal wake up time to study) and I took my time getting breakfast at the hotel and packing up the car. The more organized you are, the less stressed out you will be on exam day.


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## qasimcivil (Feb 17, 2022)

JDrew said:


> My goal every weekend was to spend 8 hours studying in addition to the 2 hours before work every day. I never studied after work, I spent that time with family and for resting. Max time studying per week was about 20 hours, minimum time 10 hours. All in all I probably spent about 500 hours studying in the year leading up to the exam (taking some weeks off for break time to avoid burn out).
> 
> Another good tip for you, save up your PTO time and take off the entire week of the exam. Exam was on Thursday Friday for me. I spent Saturday thru Tuesday before the exam studying about 12 hours a day. Wednesday was a de-stress and travel day. Cramming does not work for everyone, but I think it worked well for me.
> 
> I got a hotel for both nights before the exam, as close as I could get to our exam location. Exam day I woke up around 5 to 6 am (my normal wake up time to study) and I took my time getting breakfast at the hotel and packing up the car. The more organized you are, the less stressed out you will be on exam day.


JDrew,

Greatly appreciate all your feedback. Reading your message it still seems possible to go for bot the exams at the same time (even though the exam dates is almost 9 weeks away). Could you possilby suggest on how you managed to take the COdes, Referneces and Notes for the Exams; did you split between the VF and LF Exams on your reference materials. Were you also tagging the Codes for quick referneces or used just the Cut Sheets. My initial take on botht he exam compoenents to do the Buildings and Bridges review thoroughly but since i am going in for the Bridges Section, i have realized i do not need to overkill the Buildings Portion and just focus on the 6 mins MCQs for the AM Section on both the days. What was your strategy? Definitley your input is a huge source of inspiration at this point as i am definitely getting nervous!!!


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## Reverse Polish (Feb 18, 2022)

JDrew said:


> I got a hotel for both nights before the exam, as close as I could get to our exam location. Exam day I woke up around 5 to 6 am (my normal wake up time to study) and I took my time getting breakfast at the hotel and packing up the car. The more organized you are, the less stressed out you will be on exam day.



There are a lot of threads on the scope of the exams, study methodologies, preparation tactics, etc, but this piece of sage advice is possibly the single most important part of preparation.


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