# April/October 2020 Power PE Exam Prep



## Orchid PE

Everyone,

I've seen a lot of posts all over the place from people studying for the upcoming exam.

I thought it would be a good idea to get an April 2020 thread started for everyone to ask questions, share resources and provide knowledge all in one place.

@BebeshKing @MEtoEE @SparkyBill @pigking8190 @SCU2019 @wiliki @daydreambeliever @Crimsonwar @akyip

If you know of anyone else that is studying, feel free to tag them.


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## Sparky Bill PE

heck yeah I'm studying. Hard work going into this exam! Let's tackle this thing together!


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## wiliki

Chattaneer PE said:


> Everyone,
> 
> I've seen a lot of posts all over the place from people studying for the upcoming exam.
> 
> I thought it would be a good idea to get an April 2020 thread started for everyone to ask questions, share resources and provide knowledge all in one place.
> 
> @BebeshKing @MEtoEE @SparkyBill @pigking8190 @SCU2019 @wiliki @daydreambeliever @Crimsonwar
> 
> If you know of anyone else that is studying, feel free to tag them.


Thanks for the mention Chattaneer! 

Anyone on this forum have any good recommendations of references (books, practice problems, websites, etc.) for study on [SIZE=14.6667px]circuits/electric power devices? I feel like this is my weakest section on the PE exam. [/SIZE]


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## Sparky Bill PE

Honestly if you're "struggling" with circuits, It's hard to beat Zach Stone's course. Especially his "Circuits bootcamp". He will have breakdown videos of each topic, and an beautiful "key equations" you can print that makes things easier. As far as a circuit book, I don't know if any of my reference are actually just circuits books. 

@Chattaneer PE did you bring a circuits book to the actual exam? or @MSEE


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## Orchid PE

I didn't bring anything specifically for circuits. IIRC, Graffeo's book may have had circuit analysis in it. I do remember it had some power electronics in it, though. I think I used that and the cram for the exam reference for anything power electronics related.


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## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I didn't bring anything specifically for circuits. IRRC, Graffeo's book may have had circuit analysis in it. I do remember it had some power electronics in it, though. I think I used that and the cram for the exam reference for anything power electronics related.


Is this cram book you mention one I got from you? I have all the cram test, but I didn't know if any had more than just test in them.


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## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> Is this cram book you mention one I got from you? I have all the cram test, but I didn't know if any had more than just test in them.


Yes it is. There should be 1 reference and 2 exams.


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## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Yes it its. There should be 1 reference and 2 exams.


Glad you said something! I am flipping through it right now, I love the way its laid out. I thought it was 3 separate exams. Heck yeah this is a lot of information in a small space. 

My goal is to have a ton of reference stuff with me and hopefully I can answer most questions with my Zach Stone's website notes/problems/my notes.

Then have all these references tabbed with the questions I have left.


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## SaltySteve PE

@_TheDude_

Tagging myself so I can find this thread when I start studying in a couple days.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

_TheDude_ said:


> @_TheDude_
> 
> Tagging myself so I can find this thread when I start studying in a couple days.


@squaretaper LIT AF PE same.


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## Orchid PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> @squaretaper LIT AF PE same.


Lol


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## LyceeFruit PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> @squaretaper LIT AF PE same.


Because why not get a 3rd


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Because why not get a 3rd


I'm trying to be the Thanos of engineering.


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## SaltySteve PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> I'm trying to be the Thanos of engineering.


if half the engineering population disappeared would the power pass rate go up?


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## Orchid PE

For everyone that is studying, what does your study plan look like?


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## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> For everyone that is studying, what does your study plan look like?


2-3 hours starting 8pm Mon, Wed, Friday plus 8 hours Saturday.  Saturday for practice exams or working through more problems.


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## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> 2-3 hours starting 8pm Mon, Wed, Friday plus 8 hours Saturday.  Saturday for practice exams or working through more problems.


What type of studying are you doing during the week? Is it practice problems or a course?


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## DLD PE

Either practice problems or course notes.  For example, last week I went through School of PE General Power and Saturday I worked through 59 workshop problems.  It didn't take 8 hours since those were mostly "drill" type problems.  I used the rest of the time to start another School of PE workshop - circuits.


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## dsp002

Chattaneer PE said:


> For everyone that is studying, what does your study plan look like?


pppffff I am so lost rn....I have already started to do problems and I am finalizing my plan for WRE April 2020.

_*Breadth: *_I will tackle this one alone with the CERM 15th edition I bought in 2018. Plan to create 1 binder with practice problems tabbed by NCEES Specs (I think). I plan to do as many breadth test as possible hopefully 6/7, slow at first and start picking up the pace as I get closer to March/April. I just finished a 20 question test I found the pdf link on this platform and I have some serious work to do on structures, geotech and wastewater plants. I have 4 other 40 q breadth tests I have found online that I will do starting now. After I am done with those I will buy some online. Either six-minute, ppi, PE prepared, or other. As I go thru the problems I am writing down the CERM page where I referenced equations that helped with the problem and also the NCEES spec for the problem binder I plan to make.

As far as references: CERM, I have the steel manual from college, I want to get a copy of the NDS and......*HELP:* What other resources/reference books are necessary/recommended?

_*Depth:*_ I think I am going to pay the $550 on this one a do the EET depth. I think this will help me greatly, I am afraid of doing a good job in the morning and not so good in the PM. I seem to have read that case a lot, good am and bad pm sessions because of not taking a class for the depth. for this afternoon session I will rely on the folder, lessons and problems provided from the class. I have seen some depth test sold online, any suggestions or recommendations on this one??

3-5 hours from Monday to Friday in the office. 5-8 hours during the weekends for now. I plan to pick up the pace in February with whatever class I take (or not). My plan is to achieve 300 hours of solid study time before test day. Mentally that is the number that will put me at ease.

That is all.


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## BebeshKing PE

Currently studying for April 2020 Power PE exam. I started reviewing my college notes  mid October with the Graffeo as a guide. Now, I am digging the Engineering pro study guides. I study 3hrs on weekdays and 8-9hrs on weekends. I’m planning to finish all the topics first and then do the practice problems after. I have a lot of practice problems to play with after.

complex imaginary, spin ups, engineering pro, testmasters, wasim, chelapati, shoebrooks, grafeo primer

Hope i can finish them all.


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## LyceeFruit PE

BebeshKing said:


> Currently studying for April 2020 Power PE exam. I started reviewing my college notes  mid October with the Graffeo as a guide. Now, I am digging the Engineering pro study guides. I study 3hrs on weekdays and 8-9hrs on weekends. I’m planning to finish all the topics first and then do the practice problems after. I have a lot of practice problems to play with after.
> 
> complex imaginary, spin ups, engineering pro, testmasters, wasim, chelapati, shoebrooks, grafeo primer
> 
> Hope i can finish them all.


Wasim is garbage for the PE so dont waste your time


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Starting to put my binders together (same strategy as previous exams) of worked problems and handwritten notes (if I don't write it, I don't learn it). My twist is that I scan and reprint every (and I mean *EVERY*) sample problem (from various sources, ugh...takes forever) onto its own sheet. Once that problem is worked with neatly printed notes and equations cross-referenced to the MERM/CERM/whatever (I think this is called "threading"), I categorize it into the appropriate tabbed section in a YUUGE (3.5"? 4"? I forget...) D-ring binder so I can find it via the index later. Really, this is the "Dr. Tom's" method but mine is all handmade. It ends up being about 2-400 pages depending on exam type, but I know it like the back of my hand.


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## Orchid PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Starting to put my binders together (same strategy as previous exams) of worked problems and handwritten notes (if I don't write it, I don't learn it). My twist is that I scan and reprint every (and I mean *EVERY*) sample problem (from various sources, ugh...takes forever) onto its own sheet. Once that problem is worked with neatly printed notes and equations cross-referenced to the MERM/CERM/whatever (I think this is called "threading"), I categorize it into the appropriate tabbed section in a YUUGE (3.5"? 4"? I forget...) D-ring binder so I can find it via the index later. Really, this is the "Dr. Tom's" method but mine is all handmade. It ends up being about 2-400 pages depending on exam type, but I know it like the back of my hand.


What sort of prep/course/notes would you do for the Power PE? Would you just work practice problems? Take online courses? Take courses at a university? Other?


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What sort of prep/course/notes would you do for the Power PE? Would you just work practice problems? Take online courses? Take courses at a university? Other?


No course planned (at least for this attempt). Mostly just working [a cluster ton of] practice problems (that's how I got past the others). This is all optional, so worst case I'll just reschedule the exam.

I did some 3-phase, motors, and controls stuff in industry before so I think I'm OK there (already took some practice exams last year, so I'm feeling comfortable). Mostly it's just code stuff, lighting (I don't do much of this), and power transmission (somewhat new to me) that I'm feeling weak on so there's some of that I will review.

I'm absolutely *not *a naturally gifted test taker so I put in the time and work a bazillion problems, pick up and review areas I'm weak on, ask my colleagues/books/internetz for clarification, move on, and review some more. So, again, *not *generally a good test taker but I'm generally VERY (if I may say so myself) good at teaching something to myself with the resources I have available around me.


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> No course planned (at least for this attempt). Mostly just working [a cluster ton of] practice problems (that's how I got past the others). This is all optional, so worst case I'll just reschedule the exam.
> 
> I did some 3-phase, motors, and controls stuff in industry before so I think I'm OK there (already took some practice exams last year, so I'm feeling comfortable). Mostly it's just code stuff, lighting (I don't do much of this), and power transmission (somewhat new to me) that I'm feeling weak on so there's some of that I will review.
> 
> I'm absolutely *not *a naturally gifted test taker so I put in the time and work a bazillion problems, pick up and review areas I'm weak on, ask my colleagues/books/internetz for clarification, move on, and review some more. So, again, *not *generally a good test taker but I'm generally VERY (if I may say so myself) good at teaching something to myself with the resources I have available around me.


I love your philosophy. I have 2 BIG binders (5 inch D ring) that has all Zach Stone's course notes, all his quizzes, and then "extra" stuff like Justin's ENGR Pro guides and all the questions I've worked separated by section. (My sections are based off the PE Specification list by NCEES). 

I can't decide if this is the better method, or just having formulas/theory/etc all in binders, and then 1 binder that is "solutions only" separated by section. Because if i "know" how to work a problem (say its find low side CT current) then I wouldn't need my solutions binder, just the "formulas/conceptual" (Zach stone) binder so I can verify I'm doing the process correctly. 

I don't know I usually have a ton of confidence....but the more I learn...the more I realize I don't know enough.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> but the more I learn...the more I realize I don't know enough


This is the mark of true wisdom. Seriously.

I don't have a lot of patience for people (or engineers, sorry) who roll like they know _everything_. Sorry, not buying it.

Back on topic: On exam day I split my references into two binders like you: one for equations/tables/indexes (at the time, I had the MERM and CERM indexes printed separately from the book, a lifesaver!) and one for worked problems only. The "threading" that I mentioned was also a lifesaver, it's all an effort to reduce the mental load and wasted time on exam day.



SparkyBill said:


> My sections are based off the PE Specification list by NCEES


Same. This is the most practical. But I'm open to modification, too. For example, for the mechanical TFS exam, I split thermo first law and second law-type problems into their own sections. And if the problem touched on multiple topics (e.g. some had a fluids section you had to solve first, THEN the thermo, or vice versa) I just photocopied the whole problem and put it in both sections. I printed everything at work so paper costs were not a concern.


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## DLD PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Starting to put my binders together (same strategy as previous exams) of worked problems and handwritten notes (if I don't write it, I don't learn it). My twist is that I scan and reprint every (and I mean *EVERY*) sample problem (from various sources, ugh...takes forever) onto its own sheet. Once that problem is worked with neatly printed notes and equations cross-referenced to the MERM/CERM/whatever (I think this is called "threading"), I categorize it into the appropriate tabbed section in a YUUGE (3.5"? 4"? I forget...) D-ring binder so I can find it via the index later. Really, this is the "Dr. Tom's" method but mine is all handmade. It ends up being about 2-400 pages depending on exam type, but I know it like the back of my hand.


This is what i did before my 2nd attempt.  I had a 5" binder with every practice exam divided into categories.  It was very useful to have one "go-to" binder.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

MEtoEE said:


> This is what i did before my 2nd attempt.  I had a 5" binder with every practice exam divided into categories.  It was very useful to have one "go-to" binder.


What topic areas are you going to focus on this time @MEtoEE? And, do you have any advice for a fellow mechanical?


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## DLD PE

SparkyBill said:


> I love your philosophy. I have 2 BIG binders (5 inch D ring) that has all Zach Stone's course notes, all his quizzes, and then "extra" stuff like Justin's ENGR Pro guides and all the questions I've worked separated by section. (My sections are based off the PE Specification list by NCEES).
> 
> I can't decide if this is the better method, or just having formulas/theory/etc all in binders, and then 1 binder that is "solutions only" separated by section. Because if i "know" how to work a problem (say its find low side CT current) then I wouldn't need my solutions binder, just the "formulas/conceptual" (Zach stone) binder so I can verify I'm doing the process correctly.
> 
> I don't know I usually have a ton of confidence....but the more I learn...the more I realize I don't know enough.


The last sentence tells me you have the right attitude and you'll probably do well!


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## DLD PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> What topic areas are you going to focus on this time @MEtoEE? And, do you have any advice for a fellow mechanical?


Starting with general power/T&amp;D, circuits and protection.  Those are my weakest areas.


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## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> Starting with general power/T&amp;D, circuits and protection.  Those are my weakest areas.


What sort of material are you studying to brush up on these concepts?


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## LyceeFruit PE

wait @squaretaper LIT AF PE are you seriously gonna take the power pe?!


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> wait @squaretaper LIT AF PE are you seriously gonna take the power pe?!


Uh...it's a hobby?

In seriousness, I was *already* going to take it last year (when I was in motor controls) so a.) I already have the resources/books and b.) I'm trying to fire-proof myself and c.) I enjoy learning so why not and d.) I generally prepare my own electrical drawings anyway and have my boss (an electrical PE) review/stamp it so I'd like to stamp my own drawings. AND, I already meet my state's experience requirements for the license (due to the aforementioned pump controls biz), just need to pass the exam.

Also, for all these extracurriculars, I don't allow it to intrude too much (or at all) on my personal life. For example, for the Civil, I did almost all my studying on the bus to/from work. I'll do the same for Power. I'm sitting on my tuches anyway, might as well learn something and get a license out of it...

Oh yeah, aaaand per my union contract, I get a 5% salary differential if I have 2 licenses, but I'm still a least a year (or *more*, depending on whether I pass the 2 CA-specific exams, could be a while!) from the civil license. So, since I have the experience for the Electrical license now, might as well try.

@LyceeFruit PE Plus I have to earn that LIT AF credential. LIT AF is as LIT AF does, amirite fam? (&lt;--did I do that right?)


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Also, it's not my fault I live in a state that licenses by discipline.


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## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What sort of material are you studying to brush up on these concepts?


Right now I'm going through School of PE workshop material.  Will probably re-take Zach Stones course at some point


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> This is the mark of true wisdom. Seriously.
> 
> I don't have a lot of patience for people (or engineers, sorry) who roll like they know _everything_. Sorry, not buying it.
> 
> Back on topic: On exam day I split my references into two binders like you: one for equations/tables/indexes (at the time, I had the MERM and CERM indexes printed separately from the book, a lifesaver!) and one for worked problems only. The "threading" that I mentioned was also a lifesaver, it's all an effort to reduce the mental load and wasted time on exam day.
> 
> Same. This is the most practical. But I'm open to modification, too. For example, for the mechanical TFS exam, I split thermo first law and second law-type problems into their own sections. And if the problem touched on multiple topics (e.g. some had a fluids section you had to solve first, THEN the thermo, or vice versa) I just photocopied the whole problem and put it in both sections. I printed everything at work so paper costs were not a concern.


You said MERM and CERM, Do you already have a mechanical/civil PE and you are pursuing and electrical power PE?


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> You said MERM and CERM, Do you already have a mechanical/civil PE and you are pursuing and electrical power PE?


It's a long story, but yes, I have the Mechanical PE license in CA and recently passed the Civil exam but I don't yet meet the experience/CA-specific exam requirements for the actual license (so I can't even apply at this time, I miscalculated my strategy, oops). I changed industries early last year, so I do meet the project/industry experience requirements for the Electrical license so I'll give it a shot.

So, this is sort of an effort to make more money right now just by statute (my union will pay me 5% more if I hold two licenses). So it's either wait a couple years for the civil, OR attempt the Electrical and get more money now. I pick now. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.

Edit: I dropped studying for the Electrical last year because Electrical (to me) is harder/scarier/spookier/mysterious-blue-smokier so I'm honestly more intimidated by the subject matter.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

To all those studying: Do not underestimate the power of SPAM.


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> It's a long story, but yes, I have the Mechanical PE license in CA and recently passed the Civil exam but I don't yet meet the experience/CA-specific exam requirements for the actual license (so I can't even apply at this time, I miscalculated my strategy, oops). I changed industries early last year, so I do meet the project/industry experience requirements for the Electrical license so I'll give it a shot.
> 
> So, this is sort of an effort to make more money right now just by statute (my union will pay me 5% more if I hold two licenses). So it's either wait a couple years for the civil, OR attempt the Electrical and get more money now. I pick now. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.


You are an awesome dude my friend. Or dudette. Either way, good for you.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> You are an awesome dude my friend. Or dudette. Either way, good for you.


Does TN license by discipline? I could look it up...but I ain't gonna. :rotflmao:

On topic: I wasn't really planning on taking a class this round, are you retaking your class or just reusing the printed material? I'm on the fence about a class.


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## Sparky Bill PE

This is my first attempt that I can take it. I am having to take it in South Carolina because I graduated with bachelors may 18, and master's may 19. TN you have to have 3 years working experience, south Carolina you don't. I have 15 years of substation design experience, but I understand, it has to be post graduate experience. 

and I don't know your answer about TN, b/c no way in hell I'm doing it for another discipline LOL


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Does TN license by discipline? I could look it up...but I ain't gonna. :rotflmao:
> 
> On topic: I wasn't really planning on taking a class this round, are you retaking your class or just reusing the printed material? I'm on the fence about a class.


Did you have to pass the FE's of all those discipline to take the PE? You should be ashamed of yourself...now you got me thinking maybe I should do this for another discipline after I get my Electrical Power...


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> Did you have to pass the FE's of all those discipline to take the PE


Negative, once an EIT, always an EIT...until you level up.



SparkyBill said:


> maybe I should do this for another discipline


One thing at a time my friend! Knock this out first, then reassess. And *if* you do go down this path, I would advise definitely don't do it at the expense of your personal/family life. I'm naturally bookish, but I maintain a pretty active social/family life so I don't let any of this extracurricular studying take away from that. It's just that, since I'm sitting around on the bus commuting to/from work anyway, I like to keep my brain active. Some people play Sudoku, I do this.

And, if I may be honest with a group of anonymous internet frens, I did get into engineering later in life so there is a component of imposter syndrome at play here. Just keepin' it real...


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> I have 15 years of substation design experience


Were you a designer/drafter? How'd you get into the game?


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Were you a designer/drafter? How'd you get into the game?


Yes

I took 4 years of drafting in high school then a year in college after high school. From 18-20 I was an electrician. At 20 I got hired at a big engineering firm as a drafter. Once they realized I knew was conduit/grounding/cable trays/raceways/conductors/etc were they put me on the super fast track to "Physical Substation Design" at a super young age (and honestly I cared more than younger engineers/designers normally do). Like yourself, I really enjoy learning. I LOVE when someone takes time out of there day to teach me something. So fast forward of doing that 7 years, I started engineering school, fast forward 8 years from then I am now a Master Electrical Engineer and a Senior Engineer at my company.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> I am now a Master Electrical Engineer and a Senior Engineer at my company.


BALLER.



SparkyBill said:


> From 18-20 I was an electrician.


This is cool, super awesome to have hands on skills. I was a field instrumentation technician for the oil &amp; gas biz for about 5 years before I got my degree. It really helped. Good luck on the exam! I'm just assembling stuff now but I'm not going really to get started until after the new year. Need to recover from the holidays...

Also, SPAM. Don't forget.


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## Sparky Bill PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> BALLER.
> 
> This is cool, super awesome to have hands on skills. I was a field instrumentation technician for the oil &amp; gas biz for about 5 years before I got my degree. It really helped. Good luck on the exam! I'm just assembling stuff now but I'm not going really to get started until after the new year. Need to recover from the holidays...
> 
> Also, SPAM. Don't forget.


SPAM? 

Yeah I been hitting the books HARD since start of November. I will be hitting it hard all the way to April. I am pretty strong-willed. I'm sure after the test I'll be exhausted, but once this train gets rolling it rolls pretty good.


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## MadamPirate PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Does TN license by discipline? I could look it up...but I ain't gonna. :rotflmao:
> 
> On topic: I wasn't really planning on taking a class this round, are you retaking your class or just reusing the printed material? I'm on the fence about a class.


If you take a class, seriously consider Zach Stone’s class. I very much credit my passing to his class.


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## Sparky Bill PE

Yeah I'm in  Zach Stone's class right now and its amazing.


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## MadamPirate PE

SparkyBill said:


> Yeah I'm in  Zach Stone's class right now and its amazing.


His Circuits Bootcamp is amazing. Got me and my sqrt 3 all fixed up.


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## neaton2

Chattaneer PE said:


> Everyone,
> 
> I've seen a lot of posts all over the place from people studying for the upcoming exam.
> 
> I thought it would be a good idea to get an April 2020 thread started for everyone to ask questions, share resources and provide knowledge all in one place.
> 
> @BebeshKing @MEtoEE @SparkyBill @pigking8190 @SCU2019 @wiliki @daydreambeliever @Crimsonwar
> 
> If you know of anyone else that is studying, feel free to tag them.


I'll be studying, this will be my 2nd go around.


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## Orchid PE

neaton2 said:


> I'll be studying, this will be my 2nd go around.


What's your study plan?


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## neaton2

Chattaneer PE said:


> What's your study plan?


Plan to start one after the New Years. Going to go back through my PPI class I took last time around.


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## daydreambeliever

Chattaneer PE said:


> I thought it would be a good idea to get an April 2020 thread started for everyone to ask questions, share resources and provide knowledge all in one place.


Thanks for the add. Looks like I'm late for the party! I really did unplug over the holidays. Today is my first day back and work and I have been on the struggle bus all morning. My bed did not want me to leave it!


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## daydreambeliever

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> The "threading" that I mentioned was also a lifesaver, it's all an effort to reduce the mental load and wasted time on exam day.


I've been reading through all these posts. I'm a multiple test taker here and not because I want to pass ALL the PE exams like others in this thread  JK, but seriously I just want to pass the Power PE and continue on with my life. The threading method you mentioned. Can you go into some detail about it? I didn't really find any info on it when I did a google search. I found Dr Tom's website but not much detail outside of exam prep courses.

I am going to give this exam another go and I'm trying to get into the right mindset. If there is better way of organizing my references I would love to spend some time doing that before I start into the deep abyss of working problems. I currently have about 4 3" binders and I have my topics organized by NCEES topics. I tried to put everything into 1 or 2 5" D ring binders but it was just too much paper in one place. It seemed bulky and took too long to flip to the section I needed.


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## DLD PE

I currently have (2) 4" binders.  They may be 5", I'll have to look.  I found the largest one I could find which is still a complete circle.  The 5" with the straight (slant) rings make it too difficult to turn/flip pages quickly.  That's why I ended up with (2) "go-to" binders for the exam, and it proved to be quite useful.  I used @ItsStudyTime! method for organizing the binder.

Avery makes binders with differently shaped rings to make it easier to flip between sections.  I may look into these:

https://www.zumaoffice.com/Products/Durable-Non-View-Binder-with-DuraHinge-and-EZD-Rings--3-Rings--5-Capacity--11-x-85--Black__AVE07901.aspx?ix=18&amp;fc=L3C&amp;pq=+binders +5 +inch


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## Orchid PE

Y'all are putting my little 1/2" binder to shame.

I've been told it's not the size of the binder that matters, but how you use it. Idk if that's right, though.


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## MagicSmoke

For prep for the Oct 2019, I took the PPI OnDemand course.  I took the holidays to just relax and get back into a positive mental space.  Now that the new year is here, it's study time.  I have the printouts of all the slides and problems that were worked in class, bound and tabbed by topic.  Based on recommendations from people here, I picked up Graffeo and Complex Imaginary complete set.  I had ordered the Electrical Machines by Wildi and Power System by Glover, et al. but they didn't arrive until after the October test so I have those at my disposal as well.  I"ve also seen recommendations for the 'Cram' books by Flanagan as well as a couple of study guides/practice problems by Justin Kauwale; I may pick up some of those if I need additional practice problems.  Since I already paid for a study course, I don't really want to slam down another ~$1,000 for another one.  I'm going to spend 2-3 times a week ~2 hour sessions, an additional one on the weekend if I can squeeze it in just cranking through practice problems.  I'm planning on taking leave the last two weeks before the test to dedicated full time to studying during that time as well.  I tried that last time, but ended up with three project submittals during those two-three weeks before the test; it utterly destroyed my last two weeks of studying (which was the time I was going to dedicate to practice tests).  This will be my second attempt at the power exam.


----------



## Orchid PE

MagicSmoke said:


> For prep for the Oct 2019, I took the PPI OnDemand course.  I took the holidays to just relax and get back into a positive mental space.  Now that the new year is here, it's study time.  I have the printouts of all the slides and problems that were worked in class, bound and tabbed by topic.  Based on recommendations from people here, I picked up Graffeo and Complex Imaginary complete set.  I had ordered the Electrical Machines by Wildi and Power System by Glover, et al. but they didn't arrive until after the October test so I have those at my disposal as well.  I"ve also seen recommendations for the 'Cram' books by Flanagan as well as a couple of study guides/practice problems by Justin Kauwale; I may pick up some of those if I need additional practice problems.  Since I already paid for a study course, I don't really want to slam down another ~$1,000 for another one.  I'm going to spend 2-3 times a week ~2 hour sessions, an additional one on the weekend if I can squeeze it in.  I'm planning on taking leave the last two weeks before the test to dedicated full time to studying during that time as well.  I tried that last time, but ended up with three project submittals during those two-three weeks before the test; it utterly destroyed my last two weeks of studying (which was the time I was going to dedicate to practice tests).  This will be my second attempt at the power exam.


If you can keep up a good schedule, it sounds like you'll be able to get it this time.


----------



## MagicSmoke

Chattaneer PE said:


> If you can keep up a good schedule, it sounds like you'll be able to get it this time.


Thanks.  Just gotta stay on top of it.  Keeping my eyes on the prize...


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

daydreambeliever said:


> The threading method you mentioned. Can you go into some detail about it? I didn't really find any info on it when I did a google search.


Haha, you wouldn't have found anything on the internet about it directly. It's an idea I lifted from the Bullet Journal dude. So basically, I tried to "idiot-proof" my reference material on test day (because I R a nervous test taker) so I'm not burning time flipping pages unnecessarily.

So, in a nutshell: say I'm working on a problem that uses an equation from page XXX of my mechanical engineering reference manual (the "MERM"), in the margin of my sample problem (where I've reprinted all my practice problems on their own page) I write in red ink "MERM page XXX" (or any other instance of this equation in any other reference). That way I can easily find any other forms of the same equation or maybe some related equations/concepts that are more appropriate for the new problem at hand. Or, say I kind of prefer a form of an equation in my ASHRAE handbook, I'll put a little flag in the MERM (as well as a note in the practice problem margin) that points to the exact page in the ASHRAE handbook to remind me to use that one instead. The "threading" comes from the fact that, let's say you're already in the MERM looking up an equation, I've also noted in the margins of the MERM the exact worked problems that use those equations/ideas that are all sorted by topic area. That way, if you're very lucky, if the exam has a problem that verrrry closely resembles a problem you have already seen, your solution will be neatly annotated and worked out. Plug and play.

Honestly, on test day I didn't "use" this model explicitly, like at all. The point is that all the front-end work and prep in studying was the real benefit. Sort of like making your own flashcards or cheat sheet. In making the cheat sheet, you're already studying so...win-win. Plus if you have a total brain fart, all your study material is referenced appropriately.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

MagicSmoke said:


> tried that last time, but ended up with three project submittals during those two-three weeks before the test; it utterly destroyed my last two weeks of studying (which was the time I was going to dedicate to practice tests).  This will be my second attempt at the power exam.


I might be the wrong guy to be giving advice, because April 2020 is my first time taking it. But it shocked me you were waiting 2 weeks before the exam to start hammering out practice test. I took my first practice test last weekend (December 29th). I am going to try to take a practice test each weekend (maybe 3 every 4 weekends) leading up to the test.


----------



## Orchid PE

Practice exams are a very good gauge of progress.


----------



## daydreambeliever

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> So, in a nutshell: say I'm working on a problem that uses an equation from page XXX of my mechanical engineering reference manual (the "MERM"), in the margin of my sample problem (where I've reprinted all my practice problems on their own page) I write in red ink "MERM page XXX" (or any other instance of this equation in any other reference). That way I can easily find any other forms of the same equation or maybe some related equations/concepts that are more appropriate for the new problem at hand. Or, say I kind of prefer a form of an equation in my ASHRAE handbook, I'll put a little flag in the MERM (as well as a note in the practice problem margin) that points to the exact page in the ASHRAE handbook to remind me to use that one instead. The "threading" comes from the fact that, let's say you're already in the MERM looking up an equation, I've also noted in the margins of the MERM the exact worked problems that use those equations/ideas that are all sorted by topic area. That way, if you're very lucky, if the exam has a problem that verrrry closely resembles a problem you have already seen, your solution will be neatly annotated and worked out. Plug and play.
> 
> Honestly, on test day I didn't "use" this model explicitly, like at all. The point is that all the front-end work and prep in studying was the real benefit. Sort of like making your own flashcards or cheat sheet. In making the cheat sheet, you're already studying so...win-win. Plus if you have a total brain fart, all your study material is referenced appropriately.


Thanks for the info. I'm getting all my references out tonight and I was planning on spending a few days going through everything and coming up with a game plan. Maybe I should spend a little more time with my reference materials before I jump into problems.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Maybe I should spend a little more time with my reference materials before I jump into problems.


Dealer's choice! I tended to annotate concurrently as I worked problems. Very slow going, but it made for a very neatly organized system.


----------



## MagicSmoke

SparkyBill said:


> I might be the wrong guy to be giving advice, because April 2020 is my first time taking it. But it shocked me you were waiting 2 weeks before the exam to start hammering out practice test. I took my first practice test last weekend (December 29th). I am going to try to take a practice test each weekend (maybe 3 every 4 weekends) leading up to the test.


It's not that I hadn't taken any practice tests, just that I hadn't the dedicated time I desired to exclusively take practice tests.  In the weeks/months prior, I was going through the material of the coursework and working practice problems associated with each section.  I was able to work on a little bit of practice tests, but not nearly as much as I wanted to.  I'm naturally a good test taker, and while this is the most difficult test of this type I've taken, my typical method goes just like before (just with a little more time).  Take the time to go through all the material to familiarize myself with it, then after that crank exclusively on practice tests.  If I had been able to dedicate full time those last two weeks like I wanted to (as in at least two 40 hour weeks), I may have been able to pass.  That's still questionable, but I was doing the best I could with the time at my disposal.  I was tempted in the couple of weeks before the test to see if I could cancel and move my test to the April test, as I was fairly certain that I hadn't studied enough and saw the deadlines coming and knew I wasn't going to have a chance in hell of having the time I needed.  However, I figured at the very least I would have been exposed to the test and it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't pass my first time.  There were a couple of reasons I didn't pass: first being that I didn't start studying early enough, second being that my work schedule was just too hectic in the months/weeks up to the test.  I've been working as the main electrical designer directly under the PE of record for a new airport terminal (Orlando International Airport), and it just kept me too busy.  Put that on top of family life (two little ones at home) and it was just a recipe for what came to pass (or lack thereof; *chuckle*).

That being said, work life has slowed to a manageable level and the future outlook of said schedule is looking promising.  That, and I am forecasting my leave now.  If there are any project deadlines coming in that time before the test, they will just have to be tailored to my study schedule or handled by somebody else.  Not that I really owe you, random internet stranger, an explanation or anything, but there you are regardless.    I have been exposed to the test and all the material, and I will dedicate most of my time to working practice tests in the months to come.  I wish I had come across these forums earlier than I had.  It has been an excellent resource for study material I had never even heard of.  It's good to get feedback from all those who have taken the test in the past and can recommend what material to use, and what to avoid.


----------



## DLD PE

Understand completely the difficulty in balancing work/study/family life.  I'm married with a 2-1/2 year old at home.

The best thing I did to relieve stress was to print out a weekly plan with study time hours blocked for each day.  For example, my wife has a calendar on the fridge with my study schedule (Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8pm-11pm, and Saturdays 8am to 5pm).  I also have a list of topics/practice exams I plan for each week on a spreadsheet so I'm keeping track of hours studied and practice exam scores.


----------



## MagicSmoke

MEtoEE said:


> Understand completely the difficulty in balancing work/study/family life.  I'm married with a 2-1/2 year old at home.
> 
> The best thing I did to relieve stress was to print out a weekly plan with study time hours blocked for each day.  For example, my wife has a calendar on the fridge with my study schedule (Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8pm-11pm, and Saturdays 8am to 5pm).  I also have a list of topics/practice exams I plan for each week on a spreadsheet so I'm keeping track of hours studied and practice exam scores.


Yup, I've been telling my wife similar.  We need to set dedicated, blocked out study time.  That's another mistake I made last time around, though it would've been difficult to set time aside ahead of time with how hectic my work schedule was.  It is a great idea to put it on her calendar; I'm not sure why that didn't occur to me.  That will probably happen when I go home tonight...right after a couple hours of studying.   

Hell, I was able to get my undergrad degree and pass my FE with my eldest daughter when she was younger; I know I can get this test knocked out.  Granted, I wasn't working at the time as well, so my time outside of family time was dedicated to school and studying (thank you, G.I. Bill).  I call her a little one up above, but she's 11 now; not so little.  Kid has a bad habit of that growing up stuff and needs to knock that off.


----------



## DLD PE

MagicSmoke said:


> Yup, I've been telling my wife similar.  We need to set dedicated, blocked out study time.  That's another mistake I made last time around, though it would've been difficult to set time aside ahead of time with how hectic my work schedule was.  It is a great idea to put it on her calendar; I'm not sure why that didn't occur to me.  That will probably happen when I go home tonight...right after a couple hours of studying.
> 
> Hell, I was able to get my undergrad degree and pass my FE with my eldest daughter when she was younger; I know I can get this test knocked out.  Granted, I wasn't working at the time as well, so my time outside of family time was dedicated to school and studying (thank you, G.I. Bill).  I call her a little one up above, but she's 11 now; not so little.  Kid has a bad habit of that growing up stuff and needs to knock that off.


My son was year old when I started studying.  It's easier now that I have a study routine. 

Yes, put it on your calendar and your wife's calendar.  My first go-around, I was in Zach Stone's class and my wife had the course schedule and calendar.  I would go upstairs to participate in the class, but after that it was random dates and weekends and I would tell her a day or two in advance what my plan was.  That caused a ton of stress.  By putting it on the calendar well in advance, it is MUCH better stress-wise this time.


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> Yes, put it on your calendar and your wife's calendar.


So what should I do? My husband doesn't keep a calendar.  :laugh:  JK, maybe I should buy a family calendar and put it in the kitchen or in the dining room.

He asked me last night what my game plan was for studying and I told him I didn't have one. The rest of the week is dedicated to coming up with one.


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## Sparky Bill PE

daydreambeliever said:


> So what should I do? My husband doesn't keep a calendar.  :laugh:  JK, maybe I should buy a family calendar and put it in the kitchen or in the dining room.
> 
> He asked me last night what my game plan was for studying and I told him I didn't have one. The rest of the week is dedicated to coming up with one.


Is he an engineer too? Only reason I ask is I"m asking does he understand how amazing it is to have a PE? We make calendars on shutterfly with pictures of our kids on it. I would print one of those, hand write your study times on it, then have that as a schedule that u both can see at the house.


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## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> So what should I do? My husband doesn't keep a calendar.  :laugh:  JK, maybe I should buy a family calendar and put it in the kitchen or in the dining room.
> 
> He asked me last night what my game plan was for studying and I told him I didn't have one. The rest of the week is dedicated to coming up with one.


Google "calendars" and print out any calendar.  I printed out December 2019 through April 2020.  I started with Friday, April 17th and wrote "Pass the PE Exam."  Then I wrote "1" on the previous Friday and all the way back until "17" for 12/20/19 when I started studying again.  For each Saturday I blocked off 8am-5pm for studying and again from 8pm-11pm Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.  I wrote this in for every week up until the exam.  I put all 5 calendars and took 1 or 2 big magnets and put them on the refrigerator so both have the schedule to see.  I also printed a study log such as the one I attached below.


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## Sparky Bill PE

I actually just got through updating my physical calendar at work righting T-weeks all the way to the test. I AM READY BABY W000000 I'm fired up!!


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## daydreambeliever

SparkyBill said:


> Is he an engineer too? Only reason I ask is I"m asking does he understand how amazing it is to have a PE? We make calendars on shutterfly with pictures of our kids on it. I would print one of those, hand write your study times on it, then have that as a schedule that u both can see at the house.


Yeah he's structural. He definitely understands. After I take this test he is going to work towards the same goal. We have an almost 5 year old at home so we agreed that only one person should be studying at a time. It was pretty ruff on her the last time I took this test. For several weeks after the exam was over she would follow me all around the house. She kept thinking that I was going to leave and not come home for hours. When I study I almost always have to leave. We have a small house and the best place to study is in the dining room. That doesn't really work out with an open floor plan.

I will definitely get a calendar this weekend! He's pretty good about entertaining the kid when I'm gone but having my study sessions written down will be helpful.


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> Google "calendars" and print out any calendar.


But if I BUY a calendar that gives me an excuse to go to Target.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

daydreambeliever said:


> But if I BUY a calendar that gives me an excuse to go to Target.


OMG spoken like a true engineer + a Wifey LOL

I feel ya, I got 5 year old twin girls princesses at home. I miss my little babies so much when I have to work/study.


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## DLD PE

SparkyBill said:


> Is he an engineer too? Only reason I ask is I"m asking does he understand how amazing it is to have a PE? We make calendars on shutterfly with pictures of our kids on it. I would print one of those, hand write your study times on it, then have that as a schedule that u both can see at the house.


With my bonus my wife said, "Hey with this money we have more than enough to re-build the deck and replace the gazebo!"  I said, "With the PE we would be able to build the screened-in porch you really wanted." lol


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Yeah he's structural. He definitely understands. After I take this test he is going to work towards the same goal. We have an almost 5 year old at home so we agreed that only one person should be studying at a time. It was pretty ruff on her the last time I took this test. For several weeks after the exam was over she would follow me all around the house. She kept thinking that I was going to leave and not come home for hours. When I study I almost always have to leave. We have a small house and the best place to study is in the dining room. That doesn't really work out with an open floor plan.
> 
> I will definitely get a calendar this weekend! He's pretty good about entertaining the kid when I'm gone but having my study sessions written down will be helpful.


I have an upstairs bonus room that's my study cave but my 2-1/2 year old knows I'm there so I ended up going to the library anyway lol.

Our library is only open 7 hours on weekends (9-5) so this time I arranged to be upstairs during practice exams.  Last weekend it worked out ok so that's good.  Plus he's older now and my wife can take him places on weekends easier than she used to.


----------



## daydreambeliever

SparkyBill said:


> I feel ya, I got 5 year old twin girls princesses at home. I miss my little babies so much when I have to work/study.


It really is hard! They are so fun at this age. I could do without the attitude but almost everything else is so much fun.


----------



## DLD PE

I do believe it helps to take breaks once in a while (except during timed practice exams).  Take a 5 min break after every hour or half hour.  I have a weighted practice golf club that I hit a stuffed bag with every so often.  My son got a used Wii for Christmas (I had wished we never sold ours) along with my parent's balance board.  That Wii fit with the balance board is super-challenging, especially with the balance games.  It's nice to do during those 5 minute breaks.


----------



## DLD PE

The day I found out I didn't pass I told myself I was not going to take it again.  I texted a few people I know and told them to help me find jobs that don't require a PE.  Then I went home that night and talked to my upset wife and we talked until after midnight arguing whether to take it again.  The same thing happened the next night.  Sunday I went to church for the first time in over 10 years (aside from the usual in-law pleasing stuff).  It was mostly coincidental, since we had agreed earlier to try to introduce our son to some kind of religion/church.  But anyway, it was very helpful for both of us, for perspective and to remind us how good we had it.

On Monday, December 16th I had a lot of encouragement from family, friends and co-workers so that's when I decided to re-take the PE in April and I started studying the following night.


----------



## Will.I.Am PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> I'm still a least a year (or *more*, depending on whether I pass the 2 CA-specific exams, could be a while!) from the civil license. So, since I have the experience for the Electrical license now, might as well try.
> 
> @LyceeFruit PE Plus I have to earn that LIT AF credential. LIT AF is as LIT AF does, amirite fam? (&lt;--did I do that right?)


Off Topic: Are you short on experience for Civil? I figured you'd go straight into studying for the Seismic and Surveying Exams... But if you don't have the requisite experience for Civil, then that would create a problem. I'm already impressed that you passed 2 separate PE Exams. Passing 3 separate exams is other-worldly... Especially when one of them is Power. You'll definitely have earned the LIT AF PE postnomial, at that point.

Back On Topic: Good luck, PE Power examinees! I can't really help you, but hopefully someone can. 

:w00t:   :respect:


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Are you short on experience for Civil? I figured you'd go straight into studying for the Seismic and Surveying Exams


Yeah, I need the experience COMPLETED to even file the paperwork at allows me to take the 2 CA-specific exams (again, oops). So, I'm still at least a year out from taking those exams. In the meantime, I picked up a couple curb/ramp, parking lot, and ADA path of travel projects last week to get my civil chops! Pretty neat. Not the sexiest projects, but I'm a n00b so everything is neato cool to me.



Will.I.Am PE said:


> Passing 3 separate exams is other-worldly


Actually, at one of our consulting firms we contract with, ALL of their principles are triple licensed in mechanical, electrical, and fire protection (kinda sorta where I got the idea from).


----------



## DLD PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Yeah, I need the experience COMPLETED to even file the paperwork at allows me to take the 2 CA-specific exams (again, oops). So, I'm still at least a year out from taking those exams. In the meantime, I picked up a couple curb/ramp, parking lot, and ADA path of travel projects last week to get my civil chops! Pretty neat. Not the sexiest projects, but I'm a n00b so everything is neato cool to me.
> 
> Actually, at one of our consulting firms we contract with, ALL of their principles are triple licensed in mechanical, electrical, and fire protection (kinda sorta where I got the idea from).


That's insane.  I graduated in mechanical, and after my second failed attempt my sister (who is a Civil PE) suggested I take the mechanical PE exam.  She thought it would be easier for me.  I started to wonder...but I feel like I"m too deep in electrical to attempt a different exam.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

MEtoEE said:


> I"m too deep in electrical to attempt a different exam.


Plus you'd need the work experience in mechanical to qualify for the license anyway so I'm not sure how much that would help, haha! I agree with the spirit of her advice though, to take whatever discipline you think you can pass...


----------



## DLD PE

I tried to explain the "work experience" thing to her, but it kind of went over her head.  Oh well.  I can't pick on her too much since she DID pass her PE and I haven't yet lol.


----------



## Will.I.Am PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Yeah, I need the experience COMPLETED to even file the paperwork at allows me to take the 2 CA-specific exams (again, oops). So, I'm still at least a year out from taking those exams. In the meantime, I picked up a couple curb/ramp, parking lot, and ADA path of travel projects last week to get my civil chops! Pretty neat. Not the sexiest projects, but I'm a n00b so everything is neato cool to me.


That's what I figured. I've looked into licensure in CA, and might still do it at some point. (Getting the Cali GE would be sweet!) Sounds like you're on your way. Soon, you'll be squaretaper, LIT AF AF PE.



squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Actually, at one of our consulting firms we contract with, ALL of their principles are triple licensed in mechanical, electrical, and fire protection (kinda sorta where I got the idea from).


Nope. Nope! Nope!!! Hard Pass.   :mf_Flush:   :whipping:   :respect:


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

So, I have maybe a dumb question...but I have the Graffeo book and I'm not really sure how to use it. What makes this book so useful? It got some good reviews here and elsewhere, but maybe I don't "get" how this book is laid out. Maybe I'm just super dumb from the holiday break, I can't tell yet.

Edit: didn't mean to sound critical of the book. It just kind of looks like someone's home brewed notes compiled in Word or something.


----------



## daydreambeliever

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> So, I have maybe a dumb question...but I have the Graffeo book and I'm not really sure how to use it. What makes this book so useful? It got some good reviews here and elsewhere, but maybe I don't "get" how this book is laid out. Maybe I'm just super dumb from the holiday break, I can't tell yet.
> 
> Edit: didn't mean to sound critical of the book. It just kind of looks like someone's home brewed notes compiled in Word or something.


I have mixed feelings on that book as well. It does contain a lot of information in a fairly condensed format but I feel that EngPro Guide gives me more bang for my buck. It's been a while since I've looked at it but if I recall correctly I found the motor section in the Graffeo very helpful. I don't think i ever made it through the whole book though. I do remember working one of the theory examples and getting super frustrated. It was something I couldn't wrap my brain around at the time. I will definitely be going back through those examples.

I think on @ItsStudyTime! website below a ToC was posted for that book that may be more useful than what it currently contains. Depends on the version you have though. A good job was done of sectioning that book off by NCEES topic.

Thanks for that by the way @ItsStudyTime!

https://spreadsheetdirtbags.com/howtopassthepeexam/pe-exam-resources-electrical/


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

daydreambeliever said:


> A good job was done of sectioning that book off by NCEES topic.


I ran out of reactions today. So, thank you!

Edit: Homagah this website is great! Thanks @ItsStudyTime!


----------



## Orchid PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Edit: didn't mean to sound critical of the book. It just kind of looks like someone's home brewed notes compiled in Word or something.


This is exactly what it is. It has a lot of random, but sometimes useful formulas in it. I gave @SparkyBill my book so I forget what I had tabbed, but I think I mainly used it for the symmetrical components. Sparky, do you remember what I had tabbed?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> This is exactly what it is. It has a lot of random, but sometimes useful formulas in it. I gave @SparkyBill my book so I forget what I had tabbed, but I think I mainly used it for the symmetrical components. Sparky, do you remember what I had tabbed?


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Thanks @SparkyBill!


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> View attachment 15718


Yesssss the illumination engineering. Them some good formulas right there.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

So glad this website exist. Such an amazing place for us all to vent, learn from each other, and help each other all achieve our common goal. Makes this test so much more enjoyable and bearable knowing others are working as hard as we are!


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Yesssss the illumination engineering. Them some good formulas right there.


+1 for legible handwriting.


----------



## Orchid PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> +1 for legible handwriting.


IDk why I used lowercase. I never use lowercase. Must've been late in the evening.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> IDk why I used lowercase. I never use lowercase. Must've been late in the evening.


Same here. I always use upper case when writing LOL


----------



## Orchid PE

I noticed I started off capital with ILLumination, but that didn't last long lol


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> IDk why I used lowercase. I never use lowercase. Must've been late in the evening.


Forgive my poor pitiful Phasor upside down one. I left it so I get a giggle each time I seen it (and too cheap to use another sticky). But my Glover book is coming around nicely!


----------



## daydreambeliever

SparkyBill said:


> Forgive my poor pitiful Phasor upside down one. I left it so I get a giggle each time I seen it (and too cheap to use another sticky). But my Glover book is coming around nicely!


As long as you know what's going on and can read it that's all that matters.

So how do you like that book? I don't have it and just looked it up. I don't think I want to shell out another $200. Do you have the Wildi book? If so does it compare?


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I don't think I want to shell out another $200. Do you have the Wildi book? If so does it compare?


Yes, inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> As long as you know what's going on and can read it that's all that matters.
> 
> So how do you like that book? I don't have it and just looked it up. I don't think I want to shell out another $200. Do you have the Wildi book? If so does it compare?






squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Yes, inquiring minds want to know!


So Wildi and Glover are completely different topics. I made thru 2 chapters of Wildi and gave up reading it. I brought it with me to the test but I don't know that I used it and rotating machines was my weakest section. I did use the Glover book a few times, both in studying and at the exam. IIRC I also carried in an older version of Grainger and Blackburn (too lazy to go look at my pile) so for me, the advantage to Glover was that it was a lot more recent than my Grainger &amp; Blackburn so it talked more about microprocessor relays.


----------



## daydreambeliever

LyceeFruit PE said:


> So Wildi and Glover are completely different topics.


Oh yeah! That's right! Thanks for setting me straight   

It's time to get in gear!


----------



## Orchid PE

I didn't think the Blackburn book was worth it. It's not a textbook, so it doesn't really have good examples, and it's really wordy. I think there are better materials out there for the types of protection problems that are asked.


----------



## Orchid PE

GE provides this for free. If you have access to a work printer, it would probably be worth printing off.

https://www.gegridsolutions.com/multilin/notes/artsci/artsci.pdf


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> GE provides this for free. If you have access to a work printer, it would probably be worth printing off.
> 
> https://www.gegridsolutions.com/multilin/notes/artsci/artsci.pdf


Did you actually use this on exam day?


----------



## Orchid PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Did you actually use this on exam day?


I didn't on the exam, but I did use it to find a few answers while studying. A buddy of my printed it off and used it on the exam.

I honestly didn't have to use any of the references for the protection problems during the exam. They were pretty easy compared to the sample problems I worked.

Edit: Well, I didn't for problems that I would consider "protection" problems. Idk exactly which ones NCEES considered protection problems.


----------



## Orchid PE

I don't have the ability to waste that much paper at work, so I couldn't print it.


----------



## NotBornTesla

I'm studying for the exam in April 2020 too


----------



## Orchid PE

NotBornTesla said:


> I'm studying for the exam in April 2020 too


Awesome. Feel free to share your knowledge here!


----------



## NotBornTesla

I picked up a rocketbook fusion for working problems, I figure I'll be doing some problems at work and I really don't want to waste a ton of paper. It allows me to work problems and then scan and organize them as PDF.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Hi guys! First time test taker here.

I got signed up for the april 2020 power exam on Thursday!

Already been working my way through Zach Stone's course. It looked like the best class option, and i loved the free trial. Friends said school of pe was good and ppi was okay, so i decided to go with option 3.

I've read through Graffeo and worked through the practice test in 10 question sections just to get a feel for problem solving. I like it for formulas, but feel it could be better organized.

Im reading through the Cram book right now, and plan to take one of those exams next weekend.

Ive printed and looked through Eng Pro Guides formula sheet and used it a little. Some sections are better than others.

Working my way slowly through the Wildi book. I really like it for concepts so far, and the motor sections are phenomenal! 

I've been studying between 1 and 3 hours per weeknight - mostly coursework and including 30 minutes or 1 chapter of a reference. And im planning on doing practice exams on weekends. Probably need to write down a formal schedule though.

Im debating on getting the complex imaginary exams, but have seen a lot of mixed reviews, also ive got 6 practice exams already.

Good luck everyone!


----------



## Orchid PE

speakeelsy said:


> Im debating on getting the complex imaginary exams, but have seen a lot of mixed reviews, also ive got 6 practice exams already.


They're definitely a good set of practice problems.

Every author of a sample exam tends to lean heavily towards 1-2 topics. IMO, the complex imaginary exams seemed to have more power system analysis and motors. It had all the other topics, but the quantity of those problems were not as near as the main two topics.

But, I think every extra practice problem helps. I don't think there's such a thing as working too many practice problems.

They are definitely better than Graffeo's problems. Graffeo's set of problems is a little odd, and tends to model itself off of material in his book rather than actual exam type questions. Probably just because it's a little out of date compared to the exam nowadays.

I think the other exams you have listed are good. The Cram and Eng Pro Guide exams, to me, felt almost identical to the difficultly level of the real exam.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> They're definitely a good set of practice problems.
> 
> Every author of a sample exam tends to lean heavily towards 1-2 topics. IMO, the complex imaginary exams seemed to have more power system analysis and motors. It had all the other topics, but the quantity of those problems were not as near as the main two topics.
> 
> But, I think every extra practice problem helps. I don't think there's such a thing as working too many practice problems.
> 
> They are definitely better than Graffeo's problems. Graffeo's set of problems is a little odd, and tends to model itself off of material in his book rather than actual exam type questions. Probably just because it's a little out of date compared to the exam nowadays.
> 
> I think the other exams you have listed are good. The Cram and Eng Pro Guide exams, to me, felt almost identical to the difficultly level of the real exam.


I started studying on Dec. 20th, and I went through the School of PE workshop notes and practice problems for general power and circuits.  Most of those I would consider more "drill" type problems; once you start going through them they go pretty fast and I don't consider those "practice exam" kind of material.  However, they proved useful because some of them are worded in such a way that's unfamiliar to me, and they pointed out flaws in my thinking.  Thank you @LyceeFruit PE for suggesting these!

Saturday I did a timed practice exam using Complex Imaginary, Volume 1.  I would rank these as an easier set of problems than NCEES, Eng Pro Guides or Zach Stones.  Probably on par with Graffeo in terms of difficulty, but CI is more similarly worded like the actual exam.  I scored 63/80 and my "go-to" study binder (thanks to @ItsStudyTime! I created before the second exam really came in handy, but the CI had some "easy" questions that I got wrong because there are some concepts I thought I knew but didn't.  If you have time I highly recommend going through the CI questions.


----------



## Orchid PE

I've started reading through Backburn's protective relaying book and it's actually very nice.

I'm still not exactly sure if it's _exam reference _material, but if you need to learn about per unit, mva method, and symmetrical components the first few chapters are definitely worth reading.


----------



## Orchid PE

I found out he has a book dedicated entirely to symmetrical components. O.O

I didn't know someone could write 448 pages and only talk about symmetrical components...

https://www.amazon.com/Symmetrical-Components-Engineering-Electrical-Computer/dp/0824787676/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=blackburn+symmetrical+components&amp;qid=1578324183&amp;sr=8-1


----------



## MadamPirate PE

As a note to all of you studying: Either build yourself in some breaks, or don't be too hard on yourself when you need a break. If you're feeling burned out and sluggish, take a half day or a day off studying and do some self-care: Watch a TV program, go for a long walk, read a non-engineering book. It will help you continue to do well if you give your brain a break.


----------



## KlynPE

Hi everyone,

I failed the Oct 2019 exam and planning to take the April 2020 PE for the second attempt. To be honest, I lost all of my confident and did not think that I would have more time to study for this April exam, but I know I have to keep going and need to pass this PE test. Last Oct, I completed the PPI Power Review Live Course but it was not help.  Yet, I can access the PPI - on demand review course with no purchase necessary but I am not sure if I want to spend all of the time on this course or rather to go with other review course. Would you able to give me some advices on the good courses and study materials for 90 days review period? Thank you!


----------



## Orchid PE

KlynPE said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I failed the Oct 2019 exam and planning to take the April 2020 PE for the second attempt. To be honest, I lost all of my confident and did not think that I would have more time to study for this April exam, but I know I have to keep going and need to pass this PE test. Last Oct, I completed the PPI Power Review Live Course but it was not help.  Yet, I can access the PPI - on demand review course with no purchase necessary but I am not sure if I want to spend all of the time on this course or rather to go with other review course. Would you able to give me some advices on the good courses and study materials for 90 days review period? Thank you!


Cheers to you for taking it on again!

Idk much about any review courses. I'm sure someone will let you know soon. However, I keep seeing referrals for Zach Stone's course around here, so that might be worth checking out.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Cheers to you for taking it on again!
> 
> Idk much about any review courses. I'm sure someone will let you know soon. However, I keep seeing referrals for Zach Stone's course around here, so that might be worth checking out.


I have to give a shout out to Zach Stone's course. Great and precise information and well instructed.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

SparkyBill said:


> Forgive my poor pitiful Phasor upside down one. I left it so I get a giggle each time I seen it (and too cheap to use another sticky). But my Glover book is coming around nicely!
> 
> View attachment 15719


Game plan for now is just to sit and read this whole book.


----------



## MadamPirate PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Game plan for now is just to sit and read this whole book.


Believe it or not, that book is seriously readable for a textbook.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

MadamPirate PE said:


> Believe it or not, that book is seriously readable for a textbook.


Cool, because I have plenty of time on the bus.


----------



## MadamPirate PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Cool, because I have plenty of time on the bus.


If you wanna read textbooks for fun, I’ve got a semiconductor device fundamentals book that’s pretty great I can recommend.


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

daydreambeliever said:


> I have mixed feelings on that book as well. It does contain a lot of information in a fairly condensed format but I feel that EngPro Guide gives me more bang for my buck. It's been a while since I've looked at it but if I recall correctly I found the motor section in the Graffeo very helpful. I don't think i ever made it through the whole book though. I do remember working one of the theory examples and getting super frustrated. It was something I couldn't wrap my brain around at the time. I will definitely be going back through those examples.
> 
> I think on @ItsStudyTime! website below a ToC was posted for that book that may be more useful than what it currently contains. Depends on the version you have though. A good job was done of sectioning that book off by NCEES topic.
> 
> Thanks for that by the way @ItsStudyTime!
> 
> https://spreadsheetdirtbags.com/howtopassthepeexam/pe-exam-resources-electrical/


hey! no problem! I made the ToC for myself to use, so no reason not to share it! I have had a few people reach out about an 'updated version' of that ToC for the newer book version...but I haven't been able to help with that since I don't own the newer version (I have no need to own it). Hopefully someone else decides it's worth their time to update the ToC to the newer book version and can share it? I also (think?) I added a note on my website to message me through that 'contact me' thing and I can reply to that message and send the excel version of the ToC (instead of the PDF which is the downloadable file on the site) for easier editing.


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> I ran out of reactions today. So, thank you!
> 
> Edit: Homagah this website is great! Thanks @ItsStudyTime!


I'm glad you like it! It was somewhat cathartic to write it all out after sitting for the exam. It felt like taking a giant pile of chaos out of my brain into a (hopefully) useful/understandable format. I get a little spark of joy every time someone finds it useful  Best of luck on your studies!


----------



## Orchid PE

How's the studying going?


----------



## DLD PE

Awful.  I took two full-timed practice exams (School of PE and Complex Imaginary) and got 80% and 79%.  Not great and those are easier problems compared to others I have.  Then last weekend I took the Eng Pro Guides full exam and scored 58%.  

I went back to look at some drill problems I worked on a week ago and I honestly couldn't remember doing some of them.  

I think I just need to keep working through more problems and just keep going but honestly I don't feel good about the whole thing at the moment.


----------



## daydreambeliever

Chattaneer PE said:


> How's the studying going?


I'm going through Glover right now and working some of those problems. I was happy with how much I was remembering after taking a year long break. The plan is to complete one of the Complex Imaginary exams on Sunday so I have a better gauge of where I'm at.

FINGERS CROSSED!!!


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> I took two full-timed practice exams (School of PE and Complex Imaginary) and got 80% and 79%.


Those aren't bad scores.



MEtoEE said:


> Then last weekend I took the Eng Pro Guides full exam and scored 58%.


58% Really isn't that bad. What sort of stuff got you caught up? Was it missing little errors?


----------



## Orchid PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I'm going through Glover right now and working some of those problems. I was happy with how much I was remembering after taking a year long break. The plan is to complete one of the Complex Imaginary exams on Sunday so I have a better gauge of where I'm at.
> 
> FINGERS CROSSED!!!


Good luck. Are you going to do it timed?


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> Awful.  I took two full-timed practice exams (School of PE and Complex Imaginary) and got 80% and 79%.  Not great and those are easier problems compared to others I have.  Then last weekend I took the Eng Pro Guides full exam and scored 58%.
> 
> I went back to look at some drill problems I worked on a week ago and I honestly couldn't remember doing some of them.
> 
> I think I just need to keep working through more problems and just keep going but honestly I don't feel good about the whole thing at the moment.


Were you consistently having trouble in certain topics or was it all over the board? If it is certain topics maybe you need to spend some time studying those. 

I'm typically all over the board and get overwhelmed with the amount of topics that i feel I'm struggling with. This time around I'm going to try to reel it in. My plan is to make lists of the topics I need to work on once I do a practice test then work on them one at a time. This is something you may already be doing. I tried last time but I like I said I would get overwhelmed and jump from one topic to the next too quickly I think.


----------



## daydreambeliever

Chattaneer PE said:


> Are you going to do it timed?


That's the plan. I don't remember the Complex Imaginary Practice Exams ever taking a full 8 eight hours. Last time around when I finished all the problems I would just stop and check solutions. This time if I finish early I'm going to spend time looking for errors and checking work like I would do on test day.


----------



## Orchid PE

I have the solutions manuals to Chapman and Saadat (and main book) if anyone needs them.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Those aren't bad scores.
> 
> 58% Really isn't that bad. What sort of stuff got you caught up? Was it missing little errors?





daydreambeliever said:


> Were you consistently having trouble in certain topics or was it all over the board? If it is certain topics maybe you need to spend some time studying those.
> 
> I'm typically all over the board and get overwhelmed with the amount of topics that i feel I'm struggling with. This time around I'm going to try to reel it in. My plan is to make lists of the topics I need to work on once I do a practice test then work on them one at a time. This is something you may already be doing. I tried last time but I like I said I would get overwhelmed and jump from one topic to the next too quickly I think.


I would say it was a little bit of everything.  It was similar to what I went through last year.  I did well on codes and a few items actually came back to me.  There are a few problems where I thought I understood the concept but I wasn't using the right formulas (using line voltage instead of phase voltage, for example).  One problem I actually did correctly but was making a calculator error, and I mean a simple one.  I didn't finish the test in time to back and make the correction.  

I'm scheduled to take another timed exam on Saturday (CI #2), but I'm wondering if I should go back through the Eng Pro Guides exam, index all the problems I missed and see which sections I did poorest on and do some more review work instead of a timed exam on Saturday.


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> That's the plan. I don't remember the Complex Imaginary Practice Exams ever taking a full 8 eight hours. Last time around when I finished all the problems I would just stop and check solutions. This time if I finish early I'm going to spend time looking for errors and checking work like I would do on test day.


Yes.  CI doesn't usually take 8 hours, but Eng Pro Guides took 8 hours and I didn't finish it with enough time to check a simple mistake I made.


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> using line voltage instead of phase voltage


I would work drill after drill after drill on this.


----------



## DLD PE

I have the School of PE workshop so I will probably go through these again for this topic.


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> but Eng Pro Guides took 8 hours


Yeah Eng Pro Guide goes way deeper than CI. I have written in my schedule (that I left on my desk at home) when I'm going to do the Eng Pro Guide Exam, I think it's a few weeks out.



MEtoEE said:


> I'm wondering if I should go back through the Eng Pro Guides exam, index all the problems I missed and see which sections I did poorest on and do some more review work instead of a timed exam on Saturday.


I know everyone has different studying techniques but that's what I'm going to try to do when I know I need to work on something. Getting all the references I have and YouTubing anything I can on the topic.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> How's the studying going?


Okay.

Saturday was a wash since I got called into work, but Im making some good progress though Zach's course. It's taking longer than I expected, but I've been taking pretty detailed notes, and hit a few havent-seen-in-a-decade topics this week. 

I feel a bajillion times better about phasor diagrams than I did last week, so that's a win!


----------



## GeorgiaEng

EDITED


----------



## MadamPirate PE

How are you guys doing? Are you taking breaks to let your brain digest new information? If you're feeling burned out, take a day or two off - it's better for your brain.


----------



## DLD PE

I'm doing ok.  I took a break from doing a timed practice exam and just went back through the Eng Pro Guides Full Exam.  I went over stuff I missed, but also took an index sheet (Zach Stone calls it an index sheet.  Really it's a list of problems/sections you've missed so you can go back and review) and wrote down WHY I missed the problem.  That way I can keep track of not only what I'm missing, but why.  For example, the following may be a few reasons why I missed a problem.

1.  Calculator error.  The WORST mistake.  Not only is it careless and preventable, but I actually knew 100% how to do the problem, but not having my answer match any the choices so I started doubting my knowledge of the topic.  Went around in circles before finally giving up on the problem.  I wasted time as well as got the problem wrong. I guess slowing down a bit helps but hard to do sometimes under pressure.

2.  Completely not knowing where to begin or understand what the question is asking.  This is where I need to review a topic from multiple sources (class notes/videos or even YouTube videos).  The diode/rectifier problems and some of the economics problems were this way at first.

3.  Understanding the problem and knowing how to go about the solution, but getting one thing wrong, like mutliplying or dividing by sq rt 3, adding or subtracting 30 degrees for leading or lagging, etc.  These kind of issues I"m finding it's helpful to do drill problem after drill problem to ingrain the right habits and learn how to make the right phasor or single circuit equivalent diagrams to keep everything straight.

4.  A qualitative question in which 3 answers all seem to make sense, or none of them do.  One trick is finding two answers that are opposites so you can at least narrow it down to 50-50.  In the past (during review) I would write down not only the right answer, but why the others were wrong.  This helped me on the last actual exam, just not as much as I would have liked.  

I have 4 days where I study (one of them being a timed 8-hour practice exam) and 3 days where I don't.  I never take two days off in a row and I never study more than 2 days in a row.  I think this is good for balance. 

Going on these boards and looking at other problems people post helps too.  I have others who PM me problems and that helps.  I greatly appreciate everyone's help on here.


----------



## daydreambeliever

I completed CI practice exam 1 yesterday. I scored a 70. I was happy with how much I was remembering but nervous about some of the simple errors I made. Those are really the first problems I've worked outside of circuits so I'm hoping that once I really start digging in I make some big strides. I know that if I would have taken EngPro Guide, Zach's or the NCEES practice exam it would have been disastrous!

I made the well known sq. rt. 3 error on one problem 

Had my calculator in rads instead of degrees at one point

There was a TCC problem. I found the correct multiple of pickup but as I was following the line up my eyes skipped to the neighboring line which gave me the incorrect time dial setting. 

I didn't replicate testing conditions exactly. I got a late start and wanted to get home for dinner so I finished up a couple hours early. I'm hoping that if I would have spent time checking my work I would have found some of the simple errors. 

I'm also notoriously bad about reading a problem, then immediately start punching numbers in my calculator, finding an answer and writing it down without showing my work. In order to go back and check myself I need to get out of that habit.

Plan is to study around 2 hours Mon-Wed., have a long study session on either Friday, Saturday or Sunday. It's all on the calendar so now it's time to just dig my heels in for the next few months.


----------



## DLD PE

*Had my calculator in rads instead of degrees at one point*

Last summer I was doing a timed practice exam, and my calculator literally "froze".  I have the Ti-36X Pro and it has a factory default "reset" button on the back.  A simple press with the pencil and I was back in business.  However, it defaulted to radians and took me a while to get it back to all the settings I wanted.  Would have cost me a few mins and possible error on the actual exam.  I ended up buying a backup calculator and making sure both were set to identical preferred settings.  

*I'm also notoriously bad about reading a problem, then immediately start punching numbers in my calculator, finding an answer and writing it down without showing my work. In order to go back and check myself I need to get out of that habit.*

This can happen with simple ratio problems such as finding turns ratio on a CT, or being asked what the current reading is on a CT.  Easy to do.  Best to flag the problem, come back to it later and re-read the problem.


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> I ended up buying a backup calculator and making sure both were set to identical preferred settings.


I use the Casio fx-115es plus and I have a backup as well. When I took the FE I needed to use the integrate function for a problem. It was taking the calculator a VERY long time to compute. I started freaking out then remembered I had a back up. I was able to get through 2 different problems with my backup before my other calculator finished the integration. My heart was racing for a quick second. I will never take this exam without a backup!!!!


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I use the Casio fx-115es plus and I have a backup as well. When I took the FE I needed to use the integrate function for a problem. It was taking the calculator a VERY long time to compute. I started freaking out then remembered I had a back up. I was able to get through 2 different problems with my backup before my other calculator finished the integration. My heart was racing for a quick second. I will never take this exam without a backup!!!!


I've literally had dreams where one of the following happens:

1.  I start the exam and my calculator is nowhere to be found.

2.  My alarm doesn't go off and I wake up at exactly 8am, too late to get to the exam site.

3.  I go somewhere for lunch after the morning session and some altercation happens (the restaurant gets robbed, I run out of gas, my car breaks down, I fall asleep and wake up two hours later) to where I can't take the second part.

4.  Someone from this board actually knocks on my car door during the halftime break and gets in the passenger side and starts to draw circuit diagrams to help me with a potential problem.

Because of #1, one of my calculators is ALWAYS in the side pocket of the backpack I use to carry around stuff.  That way whatever happens I will always have one calculator with me. The other is in my study room or at work.


----------



## lost4ever_again

Any good reference for variable frequency drives and ladder logic? thanks


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> 1.  I start the exam and my calculator is nowhere to be found.


I think I posted this in a thread the last time I took the exam. I was in a fairly small room (maybe 50-75 people) and a guy realized he left his calculator at his apartment. He talked quietly to a proctor about it and left. He didn't make it back in time. All of his references sat there the whole day. Nobody knew that's why he left. Someone would have let him borrow a calculator.



lost4ever_again said:


> Any good reference for variable frequency drives and ladder logic?


I know EngPro Guide has a section on ladder logic and VFDs. It's been a while since I've gone through those sections so I'm not sure how deep into the topic he goes. It's a really good reference so if you don't have it already you should definitely get it.


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> I've literally had dreams where one of the following happens:


And except for #4 all of those dreams suck! That's not stress you need!


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I think I posted this in a thread the last time I took the exam. I was in a fairly small room (maybe 50-75 people) and a guy realized he left his calculator at his apartment. He talked quietly to a proctor about it and left. He didn't make it back in time. All of his references sat there the whole day. Nobody knew that's why he left. Someone would have let him borrow a calculator.


That's awful and I can't imagine having to go through that.  

This happened to someone during the last actual exam I took.  Another test taker had a spare similar calculator and he/she was able to borrow it.

Another person locked their keys in their car and their cell phone was inside.  Fortunately he had already taken all his exam stuff inside before the test started.  I let him borrow my phone so he could call for help.  I'm glad it didn't affect him taking the test.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I think I posted this in a thread the last time I took the exam. I was in a fairly small room (maybe 50-75 people) and a guy realized he left his calculator at his apartment. He talked quietly to a proctor about it and left. He didn't make it back in time. All of his references sat there the whole day. Nobody knew that's why he left. Someone would have let him borrow a calculator.


I like that small is 50-75 people for you lol

VT had 15 in October 2019 LOL



daydreambeliever said:


> I know EngPro Guide has a section on ladder logic and VFDs. It's been a while since I've gone through those sections so I'm not sure how deep into the topic he goes. It's a really good reference so if you don't have it already you should definitely get it.


I found the ladder logic section from Zach to be easier to understand than Justin's. It's probably because of the video. And also Boyfriend is a SCADA/Controls technician so hewalked me thru it.

@lost4ever_again I might have something stored in my Google drive, i'll look later and get back to you. Send me a PM if you want.


----------



## daydreambeliever

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I like that small is 50-75 people for you lol
> 
> VT had 15 in October 2019 LOL


Haha! The main room has around 300-400 people and then there are probably 7 -10 rooms with 50-75 people. There's also an alternate location for overflow that's at a hotel. I took the exam there once and it was amazing!!! Requested a late checkout so I just woke up, went downstairs for breakfast then went back to my room for my references and headed to the conference room I was assigned to.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Haha! The main room has around 300-400 people and then there are probably 7 -10 rooms with 50-75 people. There's also an alternate location for overflow that's at a hotel. I took the exam there once and it was amazing!!! Requested a late checkout so I just woke up, went downstairs for breakfast then went back to my room for my references and headed to the conference room I was assigned to.


Yeah no thanks to that! 

Where are you testing!? 

I dorve the 4 hours to VT to have the small testing group and home court advantage (I took the FE in VT)


----------



## daydreambeliever

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Where are you testing!?


NC State University


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> NC State University


I redesigned and took part in the fire alarm system renovations at Winston, Tompkins and Caldwell Halls, the DH Hill Library and worked on many other electrical power/lighting/fire alarm renovations there (Price Music Center, Stewart Theater, Carmichael Gym, etc.)  They were a good client for us.  We moved to TN in 2016 so I'm sure the campus looks a bit different now.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> NC State University


Oh nice - I attempted an online masters from them.

Online learning isn't my strong suit lol 

Oh  I found some TCC stuff in my Drive account. Do you need/want it? Or are you good &amp; just need a ruler to follow all the tiny tiny lines?


----------



## daydreambeliever

MEtoEE said:


> We moved to TN in 2016 so I'm sure the campus looks a bit different now.


The exams are always in McKimmon Center. I haven't spent any time walking around on campus. I always drive up on Thursday and at that point I'm just relieved to be there so I go out for dinner and go back to my room. I don't need any extra excitement the day before the exam   When the test is over I can't get away fast enough! 



LyceeFruit PE said:


> Online learning isn't my strong suit lol
> 
> Oh  I found some TCC stuff in my Drive account. Do you need/want it? Or are you good &amp; just need a ruler to follow all the tiny tiny lines?


Yeah the amount of self discipline needed for online classes is sorely lacking in me. I just can't do it!

I would love some TCC stuff. In the example that I messed up it was just my eyes skipping over to the next line when I was half way up to the curve but I'm sure there are much tougher TCC problems that I could come across.


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

MEtoEE said:


> Awful.  I took two full-timed practice exams (School of PE and Complex Imaginary) and got 80% and 79%.  Not great and those are easier problems compared to others I have.  Then last weekend I took the Eng Pro Guides full exam and scored 58%.
> 
> I went back to look at some drill problems I worked on a week ago and I honestly couldn't remember doing some of them.
> 
> I think I just need to keep working through more problems and just keep going but honestly I don't feel good about the whole thing at the moment.


I took the Eng Pro Guides exam as my very last practice exam VERY close to the real exam and I got a failing score....then I still passed the PE. Don't let that one discourage you! It's tough! And worded slightly differently that all the others. It was definitely a curve ball. BUT, then I did my 'parsing' method' and put all those problems in the binder, and then filled a bunch of holes in my binder and was really helpful in the end as a a resource.


----------



## DLD PE

ItsStudyTime! said:


> I took the Eng Pro Guides exam as my very last practice exam VERY close to the real exam and I got a failing score....then I still passed the PE. Don't let that one discourage you! It's tough! And worded slightly differently that all the others. It was definitely a curve ball. BUT, then I did my 'parsing' method' and put all those problems in the binder, and then filled a bunch of holes in my binder and was really helpful in the end as a a resource.


I know I failed, but your binder/organizing method really helped me find stuff quickly, even during studying.  

For the Eng Pro Guides, did you take his "Full" exam or "Final", or both?  I have both and I bombed the "Full" one, but you may not have taken his "Final" one since it just came out last summer.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> The exams are always in McKimmon Center. I haven't spent any time walking around on campus. I always drive up on Thursday and at that point I'm just relieved to be there so I go out for dinner and go back to my room. I don't need any extra excitement the day before the exam   When the test is over I can't get away fast enough!
> 
> Yeah the amount of self discipline needed for online classes is sorely lacking in me. I just can't do it!
> 
> I would love some TCC stuff. In the example that I messed up it was just my eyes skipping over to the next line when I was half way up to the curve but I'm sure there are much tougher TCC problems that I could come across.


I don't have more TCC problems, just info about TCC graphs and such


----------



## daydreambeliever

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I don't have more TCC problems, just info about TCC graphs and such


Yeah I'll take it please. I just meant that on the actual exam I bet the problems will be a lot more difficult than simply calculating the multiple of pickup and finding the time dial setting. This was another one of those that I just punched some numbers in the calculator and wrote my answer down. Didn't show any work.


----------



## Orchid PE

Here's a good book for power electronics.

Covers everything with thyristors, AC-AC, DC-DC, motor drives, rectification, etc.


----------



## CountryPE

Anyone in this forum live in Nashville area that are interested in studying together?


----------



## Swift Fox

I am looking at creating a binder of all the practice problems that I do. I was thinking about copying the problem and solution together on a page and then organizing them by problem type. Has anyone done this? It seems like it would take a lot of time to do but would be very helpful.


----------



## Orchid PE

Swift Fox said:


> I am looking at creating a binder of all the practice problems that I do. I was thinking about copying the problem and solution together on a page and then organizing them by problem type. Has anyone done this? It seems like it would take a lot of time to do but would be very helpful.






squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Starting to put my binders together (same strategy as previous exams) of worked problems and handwritten notes (if I don't write it, I don't learn it). My twist is that I scan and reprint every (and I mean *EVERY*) sample problem (from various sources, ugh...takes forever) onto its own sheet. Once that problem is worked with neatly printed notes and equations cross-referenced to the MERM/CERM/whatever (I think this is called "threading"), I categorize it into the appropriate tabbed section in a YUUGE (3.5"? 4"? I forget...) D-ring binder so I can find it via the index later. Really, this is the "Dr. Tom's" method but mine is all handmade. It ends up being about 2-400 pages depending on exam type, but I know it like the back of my hand.






squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Haha, you wouldn't have found anything on the internet about it directly. It's an idea I lifted from the Bullet Journal dude. So basically, I tried to "idiot-proof" my reference material on test day (because I R a nervous test taker) so I'm not burning time flipping pages unnecessarily.
> 
> So, in a nutshell: say I'm working on a problem that uses an equation from page XXX of my mechanical engineering reference manual (the "MERM"), in the margin of my sample problem (where I've reprinted all my practice problems on their own page) I write in red ink "MERM page XXX" (or any other instance of this equation in any other reference). That way I can easily find any other forms of the same equation or maybe some related equations/concepts that are more appropriate for the new problem at hand. Or, say I kind of prefer a form of an equation in my ASHRAE handbook, I'll put a little flag in the MERM (as well as a note in the practice problem margin) that points to the exact page in the ASHRAE handbook to remind me to use that one instead. The "threading" comes from the fact that, let's say you're already in the MERM looking up an equation, I've also noted in the margins of the MERM the exact worked problems that use those equations/ideas that are all sorted by topic area. That way, if you're very lucky, if the exam has a problem that verrrry closely resembles a problem you have already seen, your solution will be neatly annotated and worked out. Plug and play.
> 
> Honestly, on test day I didn't "use" this model explicitly, like at all. The point is that all the front-end work and prep in studying was the real benefit. Sort of like making your own flashcards or cheat sheet. In making the cheat sheet, you're already studying so...win-win. Plus if you have a total brain fart, all your study material is referenced appropriately.


----------



## DLD PE

Swift Fox said:


> I am looking at creating a binder of all the practice problems that I do. I was thinking about copying the problem and solution together on a page and then organizing them by problem type. Has anyone done this? It seems like it would take a lot of time to do but would be very helpful.


This is exactly what I do.  I have two binders (started as one, but got too big) and they're organized by sections (circuit analysis, rotating machines, measurement and instrumentation, protection, codes, etc.)  I put my pertinent formulas in the front of every section along with any cheat sheets or key notes I want to add.  The rest of the section is example or sample test problems.  For example, I have 4 different type of autotransformer problems in a particular section.  If I come across the same problem twice, I might replace that problem/sheet with the newer one if I found a better way to solve it, or if it was clearer, or maybe I made better notes or drew in a single line diagram, etc.  I'm always updating/adding to it.  

Yes this all takes time, but it's a nice way to keep everything organized and know where to go back and find stuff.

Another tip:  When solving problems, especially qualitative ones, I like to write (in red ink) why some of the incorrect answer choices are wrong.  Even with math problems, I try to write explanations and come up with ways the problem could be asked in a qualitative manner.  I will also put the reference book and page number if that's where I got the answer from, so if I come across a similar problem and forgot where to look I can easily find it.  

I got some of these ideas from @ItsStudyTime!, and I highly recommend at least looking at her study method.


----------



## N-ABC

Can anyone share their study schedule and material with me.


----------



## Orchid PE

N-ABC said:


> Can anyone share their study schedule and material with me.



There's probably more if you look through the Power PE sub forum.


----------



## Swift Fox

Which exam is better from engproguides, the power full exam or power final exam?


----------



## DLD PE

They're both good.  The full exam is designed for Justin's students to take after studying each section.  The final exam is supposed to simulate a real timed practice exam so it's meant as an evaluation to see how you might do on the real test.  

So both are good exams, just designed for different purposes.


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

MEtoEE said:


> I know I failed, but your binder/organizing method really helped me find stuff quickly, even during studying.
> 
> For the Eng Pro Guides, did you take his "Full" exam or "Final", or both?  I have both and I bombed the "Full" one, but you may not have taken his "Final" one since it just came out last summer.


I'm glad to hear it's working for you! I believe at the time I took the exam, there was only one Electrical 'exam' available from Justin, and it was a 'PE practice' exam in that it covered all topics, 80 questions, 8 hours, etc. I'm glad that he's making/offering more products - I liked his stuff! He did not have an electrical review course when I was doing the PE, so he would not have had any of the related products available then. The only other 'problems' available at that time from him were the practice ones that are in his technical study guide, which I also did. 

But yeah - I definitely bombed it at the time. It was GREAT though because it just helped me close those gaps in my binder. It did take a few deep breaths to get over the shock that close to the real exam though.....I think I just quit for the night and went to bed to wallow in misery, then got up the next day to 'get at it' with the required follow up and final prep.


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

Swift Fox said:


> I am looking at creating a binder of all the practice problems that I do. I was thinking about copying the problem and solution together on a page and then organizing them by problem type. Has anyone done this? It seems like it would take a lot of time to do but would be very helpful.


Haha! Yes. The great debate. 'is it worth the time'? I obviously think 'yes'...since this is basically ALL I did, and I passed using that binder I made. It does come down to 'learning style' - I tune out of lectures unless I'm writing something down, so the 'binder' method worked well for me because all of my studying also involved writing things down (mostly working out solutions).

My 'method' is laid out here. I wrote it as a 'step by step' (week by week), but in the end your summary in your question essentially covers the gist of it. I was rigorous about the 'weeks' at the time because I only had 9 of them left to study when I signed up.

Unsolicited advice;

If you are taking the time to write out solutions, make sure to actually _take the time_. i.e. write out the solution in full (all steps, all formulas used in their native form before inserting numbers). If the problem you are trying to solve is only similar, but not identical, to your reference solution, having all the steps/formulas written out helps you 'adapt' the process as needed for the slightly different problem type. As a counter-example - the 'solutions' in the NCEES practice exam book are about as useless as a chocolate teapot - so many steps are skipped and you really have to already know most of the solution in order to follow their 'worked' solutions.

Also, if you got the problem wrong originally, note in the 'correct solution' page somewhere what you did wrong (especially if it was an easy mix-up or mistake to make again). 'Present you' understands what you did wrong, 'future you' may just repeat the mistake unless there's a kick-in-the butt to remind you not to mess it up again. Like, I literally highlighted the 'square root' symbol in one formula and pointed at it with an arrow and wrote 'hey dummy, don't forget to take the square root at the end'.

Also, if the problem is qualitative, write out WHY each of the WRONG answers was wrong. They are usually 'close' or 'half true' or some other tricksie thing, so writing 'option A is wrong because ___, option B is wrong because ___, etc' can really make that 'solution' more broadly useful in the future if a similar topic comes up. Also, some jot notes about why the RIGHT answer is right, and titles/page numbers to your favorite resource-book sections on the topic. TLDR: if you are going to take the time to write out page-by-page problem/solution sets, make each one as useful as possible to 'future you'.


----------



## DLD PE

Also, on the real exam, pay close attention if two of the answer choices for a qualitative question are opposites.  There's a good chance one of the 2 is the correct answer, thereby eliminating the other 2 and giving yourself a 50% chance of getting it right, in case you're not sure of the answer.

Also if 2 answers appear to be correct, they might be.  Just one is more correct than the other.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

MEtoEE said:


> Also, on the real exam, pay close attention if two of the answer choices for a qualitative question are opposites.  There's a good chance one of the 2 is the correct answer, thereby eliminating the other 2 and giving yourself a 50% chance of getting it right, in case you're not sure of the answer.
> 
> Also if 2 answers appear to be correct, they might be.  Just one is more correct than the other.


I had quite a few problems working the NCEES practice exam that I thought was way too ez to be on the actual exam (maybe I'm wrong). Like calculating the voltage of CT burden, and calculating and finding "which dial setting" would you used given a curve. Maybe there are some "low hanging fruit" on the actual exam. 

The practice exam felt a whole lot more "tricky" than "difficult". I got SO FRUSTRATED at electricalPeReview sometimes because I thought each quiz was gimmicky and only there to "trick you". Nope, that's EXACTLY how I felt the practice test was and could not be more spot on !


----------



## DLD PE

It's preparing you for the real exam. Yes, you will see some low-hanging fruit, some difficult problems, and some easy but tricky problems. What is easy to one person will be tricky to another.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

MEtoEE said:


> It's preparing you for the real exam. Yes, you will see some low-hanging fruit, some difficult problems, and some easy but tricky problems. What is easy to one person will be tricky to another.


That's a good point. I was SO EXCITED when I passed me FE to finally get to take my POWER PE. What all my education and work experience has been leading me to. Give me Transmission lines and give me transformers.....

And then I'm taking my practice test and I see some stupid tiny wave form using diodes and full wave rectifiers etc.  Why oh why is this crap on a power PE exam


----------



## DLD PE

Welcome to the power PE exam


----------



## speakeelsy PE

ItsStudyTime! said:


> Also, if the problem is qualitative, write out WHY each of the WRONG answers was wrong. They are usually 'close' or 'half true' or some other tricksie thing, so writing 'option A is wrong because ___, option B is wrong because ___, etc' can really make that 'solution' more broadly useful in the future if a similar topic comes up. Also, some jot notes about why the RIGHT answer is right, and titles/page numbers to your favorite resource-book sections on the topic. TLDR: if you are going to take the time to write out page-by-page problem/solution sets, make each one as useful as possible to 'future you'.


Why haven't I thought of this before for the qualitative problems!?!? It makes so much sense! The "its all the above" answers trick me into picking them every time!

I feel so behind everyone on the forums right now, since I'm still going through the review course instead of working through practice exams, but there are enough questions in the quizzes to keep me occupied and TONS of stuff that didn't make sense in school are clicking now because I've actually seen a motor in person, and transformers aren't just robots, etc...


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

SparkyBill said:


> And then I'm taking my practice test and I see some stupid tiny wave form using diodes and full wave rectifiers etc.  Why oh why is this crap on a power PE exam


There will be numerous questions like that on the real exam. Particularly since they can pick any part of the NEC like fire pumps, hospital rooms, etc that an electrician would know and use but is outside the range of a typical power engineer


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Here's a good book for power electronics.
> 
> Covers everything with thyristors, AC-AC, DC-DC, motor drives, rectification, etc.


Just had to buy it off Amazon. Never dreamed I"d be spending $150 on a damn power electronics book to take a Power PE exam.  I am way too clueless when it comes to rectifiers/diodes/capacitors and all kinds of tricks they use.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

SparkyBill said:


> Just had to buy it off Amazon. Never dreamed I"d be spending $150 on a damn power electronics book to take a Power PE exam.  I am way too clueless when it comes to rectifiers/diodes/capacitors and all kinds of tricks they use.


Please share with us how you like it!

I do a bunch of rectifiers, vfds, and controls stuff at work, and am not that worried about these sections, but maybe i should be? 

Delta-wye and wye-delta conversions kicked my butt today, so i gotta work on that.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

speakeelsy said:


> Please share with us how you like it!
> 
> I do a bunch of rectifiers, vfds, and controls stuff at work, and am not that worried about these sections, but maybe i should be?
> 
> Delta-wye and wye-delta conversions kicked my butt today, so i gotta work on that.


@Chattaneer PE

Chattaneer is seriously one of the most brilliant engineers I've ever met, and he CONSTANTLY references this book when helping people. He's the only reason I bought it. But I"ll let you know what I think too.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

SparkyBill said:


> Just had to buy it off Amazon. Never dreamed I"d be spending $150 on a damn power electronics book to take a Power PE exam.  I am way too clueless when it comes to rectifiers/diodes/capacitors and all kinds of tricks they use.


tbh I just hoped for the best in that section - Zach's modules &amp; class helped. And when I was studying, when I got stuck I emailed my electronics professor from college for help - I still have my electronics book from college too


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> tbh I just hoped for the best in that section - Zach's modules &amp; class helped. And when I was studying, when I got stuck I emailed my electronics professor from college for help - I still have my electronics book from college too


Yeah I have my electronics book but I hope this book will be more focused and in-line with what PE questions are asking.  That made me feel good you saying you "hoped for the best" and you have passed. That honestly is what I needed to read today. I am blessed that I think my biggest strengths are NEC/Protection/Circuits and that's probably the 3 biggest things on the exam.


----------



## Swift Fox

For people who have taken the exam multiple times, how similar is the exam each time you have taken it?


----------



## DLD PE

It's not.  Worded similarly (close in wording like the NCEES practice exam), different problems (on the 2 exams I took).  

You MAY recognize a problem similar to one on a previous exam, but that's rare.

I'm also quite sure that's pretty much the extent of what I'm allowed to say


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Swift Fox said:


> For people who have taken the exam multiple times, how similar is the exam each time you have taken it?


Not very. I've taken it 7 times so I KNOW lol.


----------



## daydreambeliever

Swift Fox said:


> For people who have taken the exam multiple times, how similar is the exam each time you have taken it?


Every time has been very different! Every time I have taken it I have been blindsided by some topic or another that I wasn't fully prepared for.


----------



## SaltySteve PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Not very. I've taken it 7 times so I KNOW lol.


That really frightens me.


----------



## DLD PE

Well it should motivate us and it sets the standard for not quitting.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

SaltySteve said:


> That really frightens me.


It isn't that the test is **that** hard.

Here's the timeline to put your mind at ease:

Oct 2015: 1st attempt, studied as much as I could while designing  a greenfield site, I was the only P&amp;C engineer on it and there were supposed to be 3 engineers.

Apr 2016: 2nd attempt, did not study. Burnt out from the fall and help hadn't arrived yet for that project and the remote ends were forthcoming - a greenfield tap site and 2 brownfields (but the brownfields were just relay upgrades &amp; nomenclature).

Apr 2017: 3rd attempt, didn't study. Got selected to represent my track club at the Boston Marathon and had missed the deadline to withdraw taking it. So ran the marathon Monday and took the test that Friday. 

Apr 2018: 4th attempt, this one was HARD. this is when they changed the standards and I had studied some but WOOF. This one hurt leaving. 

Oct 2018: 5th attempt, studied more. But moved in the middle of studying anf never quite got the groove back

Apr 2019: 6th attempt, 147 hours of studying. Improved in protection. Had Justin's technical guide, reference problem set, and FULL exam.

Oct 2019: 7th attempt, 234 hours of studying. Finally took a class (Zach's) and did timed practice tests. Added Justin's FINAL exam. 

I tried hard for April 2019 but not hard enough. And with October 2019, it was my final chance on my application. I would have had to reapply with another state as VT changed the regulations and it would have been 2 years before I could reapply with them. I was also brushing up against the ceiling for promotion - I can't reach senior engineer in my company as an EE without my PE. And frankly, I wanted it SO BAD to be the last time I had to update @RBHeadge PE for his map. The stars finally aligned for me for October 2019. I passed out of RAGE and sisu.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

MEtoEE said:


> Well it should motivate us and it sets the standard for not quitting.


I actually do not hold the record for the most attempts on this board. 

There was someone in Apr 2019 cycle who posted somewhere that they were at try like 17 

ETA: I don't recall which PE test it was for tho.


----------



## DLD PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I actually do not hold the record for the most attempts on this board.
> 
> There was someone in Apr 2019 cycle who posted somewhere that they were at try like 17
> 
> ETA: I don't recall which PE test it was for tho.


I just had a mini split-second migraine after reading "17".  And I've never had a migraine.

I think the NCEES should allow instructors to take the exam at least once a year, but that will never happen.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

MEtoEE said:


> I just had a mini split-second migraine after reading "17".  And I've never had a migraine.
> 
> I think the NCEES should allow instructors to take the exam at least once a year, but that will never happen.


Instructors? like whom? Zach &amp; Justin? I mean Justin took &amp; passed the Power PE for HI in like Oct 2018 IIRC


----------



## DLD PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> It isn't that the test is **that** hard.
> 
> Here's the timeline to put your mind at ease:
> 
> Oct 2015: 1st attempt, studied as much as I could while designing  a greenfield site, I was the only P&amp;C engineer on it and there were supposed to be 3 engineers.
> 
> Apr 2016: 2nd attempt, did not study. Burnt out from the fall and help hadn't arrived yet for that project and the remote ends were forthcoming - a greenfield tap site and 2 brownfields (but the brownfields were just relay upgrades &amp; nomenclature).
> 
> Apr 2017: 3rd attempt, didn't study. Got selected to represent my track club at the Boston Marathon and had missed the deadline to withdraw taking it. So ran the marathon Monday and took the test that Friday.
> 
> Apr 2018: 4th attempt, this one was HARD. this is when they changed the standards and I had studied some but WOOF. This one hurt leaving.
> 
> Oct 2018: 5th attempt, studied more. But moved in the middle of studying anf never quite got the groove back
> 
> Apr 2019: 6th attempt, 147 hours of studying. Improved in protection. Had Justin's technical guide, reference problem set, and FULL exam.
> 
> Oct 2019: 7th attempt, 234 hours of studying. Finally took a class (Zach's) and did timed practice tests. Added Justin's FINAL exam.
> 
> I tried hard for April 2019 but not hard enough. And with October 2019, it was my final chance on my application. I would have had to reapply with another state as VT changed the regulations and it would have been 2 years before I could reapply with them. I was also brushing up against the ceiling for promotion - I can't reach senior engineer in my company as an EE without my PE. And frankly, I wanted it SO BAD to be the last time I had to update @RBHeadge PE for his map. The stars finally aligned for me for October 2019. I passed out of RAGE and sisu.


Wow.  Oct 2015:  I was living in a beautiful, newly built house with my wife in NC.  No kids, playing golf every weekend, enjoying my weeknights.  In October 2015 I qualified and was enjoying playing in my first golf state mid-am.  Oh the memories.

Then we moved to TN, new job, had a child, and the PE stress started


----------



## DLD PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Instructors? like whom? Zach &amp; Justin? I mean Justin took &amp; passed the Power PE for HI in like Oct 2018 IIRC


I knew Zach passed it a few years ago, but I didn't know Justin passed it that recently.  I knew he passed the mechanical PE but not this one.


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> I think the NCEES should allow instructors to take the exam at least once a year, but that will never happen.


I somewhat disagree. I think I know what you're getting at with allowing the instructors to take it each year. That way they know what material to prepare the students for.

I think it defeats the purpose of the exam to spend a lot of time preparing for it. It's supposed to test engineering competency and real-world experience. If loads of preparation is required, it means the experience isn't there.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

MEtoEE said:


> I knew Zach passed it a few years ago, but I didn't know Justin passed it that recently.  I knew he passed the mechanical PE but not this one.


I might have the order of exams swapped for Justin *shrugs*


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I somewhat disagree. I think it defeats the purpose of the exam to spend a lot of time preparing for it. It's supposed to test engineering competency and real-world experience. If loads of preparation is required, it means the experience isn't there.


But most people spend a ton of time preparing for the exam as it is.


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> But most people spend a ton of time preparing for the exam as it is.


Which I don't think I'll ever really understand. I spent at most 75 hours studying, just refreshing on equations and solving stuff by hand. Most of the conceptual questions should be able to be answered without much preparation.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Which I don't think I'll ever really understand. I spent at most 75 hours studying, just refreshing on equations and solving stuff by hand. Most of the conceptual questions should be able to be answered without much preparation.


Well you're one of the rare ones then.  There's a lot of students (going by statistics Zach Stone and Justin post) who indicate the amount of hours studied is more in the 150-200 range).


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> Well you're one of the rare ones then.  There's a lot of students (going by statistics Zach Stone and Justin post) who indicate the amount of hours studied is more in the 150-200 range).


I think those figures are somewhat skewed, since most of the people taking their classes are the ones that feel the need to study at lot.

I know of 3 people, including myself, who took the exam this past cycle and only studied around the 75hr mark. No prep classes. There are a lot of people like that, but they don't really get included in any statistics.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I somewhat disagree. I think I know what you're getting at with allowing the instructors to take it each year. That way they know what material to prepare the students for.
> 
> I think it defeats the purpose of the exam to spend a lot of time preparing for it. It's supposed to test engineering competency and real-world experience. If loads of preparation is required, it means the experience isn't there.


You can't expect every test taker to have real-world experience in all aspects of the test. 

I don't do anything at all with motors, generators, rectifiers, diodes, NFPA 70E, NFPA 780, engineering economics (I never even took a class on it in college), demand management, VSDs, ladder logic. I do P&amp;C at a consulting firm and use the NEC &amp; NESC on occasion. That's my life. So I had to put hours of dedication into this to have chance at passing


----------



## Orchid PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> You can't expect every test taker to have real-world experience in all aspects of the test.
> 
> I don't do anything at all with motors, generators, rectifiers, diodes, NFPA 70E, NFPA 780, engineering economics (I never even took a class on it in college), demand management, VSDs, ladder logic. I do P&amp;C at a consulting firm and use the NEC &amp; NESC on occasion. That's my life. So I had to put hours of dedication into this to have chance at passing


But that's the point of the exam. It covers multiple topics, and allows people to pass even though they're not an expert in all areas.

There will be technical questions that can be answered by standard electrical people. Those are like the calculation questions. Then there are conceptual questions from a variety of power fields. A competent engineer will be able to answer most of the questions related directly to their field. On the remaining ones, they just need to show some competency.

So an engineer designing electrical systems for buildings might not be able to answer transmission and generation questions, and vice versa.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I think those figures are somewhat skewed, since most of the people taking their classes are the ones that feel the need to study at lot.
> 
> I know of 3 people, including myself, who took the exam this past cycle and only studied around the 75hr mark. No prep classes. There are a lot of people like that, but they don't really get included in any statistics.


Well I applaud them.  I'm already at 83 hours, not including this week, not to mention my previous two attempt cycles.  If I took it tomorrow I wouldn't feel confident about it lol.

I think we're all different, wired differently and some of us retain stuff better than others.  Just my opinion.


----------



## Orchid PE

I really don't want to put anyone down, so I hope I'm not coming off that way.



MEtoEE said:


> I think we're all different, wired differently and some of us retain stuff better than others.  Just my opinion.


Honestly, I think there are just some people that aren't cut out to be engineers. Just like some people aren't meant to be lawyers, doctors, artists, etc., some aren't meant to be engineers. A buddy of mine started off in engineering, but quickly learned he wasn't engineering material, and now he's doing great as a realtor. Probably doing financially better than he could have as an engineer, and much happier just knowing his personality.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I really don't want to put anyone down, so I hope I'm not coming off that way.
> 
> Honestly, I think there are just some people that aren't cut out to be engineers. Just like some people aren't meant to be lawyers, doctors, artists, etc., some aren't meant to be engineers. A buddy of mine started off in engineering, but quickly learned he wasn't engineering material, and now he's doing great as a realtor. Probably doing financially better than he could have as an engineer, and much happier just knowing his personality.


The problem is it's a standardized test that is graded multiple choice and will never be a decent "guide for passing" or "proving someone's engineering knowledge". I wish the test cost $1,500 but EVERY TEST was to be hand graded. That way they know and see EXACTLY what you know and who is ready to be a licensed engineer. 

I have a few friends that passed the FE that will 100% admit they had no idea on 60% of the material. I also had 1 friend that didn't study the PE, admitted he was LOST on half of it, and the only reference he brought was "guide to passing the PE" (didn't even bring an NEC book or any code books) and passed. 

If the stars align, and it's someones day to pass. It only takes bubbling the right answers on the given day.


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> The problem is it's a standardized test that is graded multiple choice and will never be a decent "guide for passing" or "proving someone's engineering knowledge". I wish the test cost $1,500 but EVERY TEST was to be hand graded. That way they know and see EXACTLY what you know and who is ready to be a licensed engineer.


If I'm not mistaken, I think the older exams were not multiple choice. I think they were just worked out by hand and when they were graded partial credit was applied. I do agree it could be difficult to really gauge an engineer with a standardized test, but then again there are people whose job is to create tests that accurately reflect the knowledge of the test-taker.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I think the older exams were not multiple choice. I think they were just worked out by hand and when they were graded partial credit was applied. I do agree it could be difficult to really gauge an engineer with a standardized test, but then again there are people whose job is to create tests that accurately reflect the knowledge of the test-taker.


That's exactly how it used to be. The SE (Structural engineering) exam is still that way. One of the test graders work with me. All questions are graded on a scale and then compared to another grader for accuracy.  It is weird to imagine, you for sure would have some PE's that aren't PE's today, and some non-PE's that would be PE's for sure. 

I just wish they gave that OPTION even if it costed 5x as much.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I think the older exams were not multiple choice. I think they were just worked out by hand and when they were graded partial credit was applied. I do agree it could be difficult to really gauge an engineer with a standardized test, but then again there are people whose job is to create tests that accurately reflect the knowledge of the test-taker.


This was true for electrical too. One of my old supervisors was telling me there used to be a whole bunch of problems from all the engineering fields and you had to pick and solve like 7 or 10 of them and they graded your work. He took the test in the 70s.


----------



## Orchid PE

I've got to say I'm really liking this book.

I *did not*_ _have it with me when I took the exam. I purchased it afterwards as a gift to myself for passing.

So far, I've identified many times when it would have come in handy. There is stuff in this book that I did not have in any other reference. And for $160, it's not bad. Especially since you'll probably use it for the rest of your career.


----------



## Swift Fox

For people who have taken the exam before: How much room do you have at your desk and around you for books?


----------



## Orchid PE

Swift Fox said:


> For people who have taken the exam before: How much room do you have at your desk and around you for books?


My desk was about and arm's length forward. Tables were about 8ft wide, and 2 people per table. So about 4ft wide to myself.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> My desk was about and arm's length forward. Tables were about 8ft wide, and 2 people per table. So about 4ft wide to myself.


THIS.  I took it in Nashville and this was the case...plenty of room.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Swift Fox said:


> For people who have taken the exam before: How much room do you have at your desk and around you for books?


It varies from state to state on the final amount of room you have. There are requirements set forth from NCEES IIRC.

In VT, I've had a 6ft table to myself, shared an 8ft table, had an 8ft table to myself, and have been in a lecture hall with connected table tops/chairs and had probably 6-8ft of space for myself [in VT, typically the testing takes places in the National Guard building classroom but has taken place inside various classrooms at Norwich, at the ice arena, and in the mess hall of the National Guard building]


----------



## DLD PE

I'm pretty sure I sat at the exact same table for both exams.  I had plenty of room to my immediate left and in front of me.  I had enough room under the table to grab whatever I could not to my immediate left and in front.  

As a strategy, I put my big "go-to" binder right in front of me and my most popular references to my front and left.  I put the NEC and code references under the table until it came time for the second pass of the exam and put those all on the table for that round, and then put them back before the third pass.  Worked out just fine.

My first attempt, the person to my left sharing the table with me did not show up, so I had a big table all to myself.


----------



## Orchid PE

Just a warning, hopefully not to scare anyone, but _some_ proctors will require you to put all your references on the table. If it's not on the table before the exam starts, you can't use it.

This was not the case for my exam, but a buddy of mine who took the exam in April 2019 was required to do this. It sucked for the people that brought in suitcases full of books.

I remember at my exam there was a guy that attached wheels to a bookshelf and wheeled it in.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I remember at my exam there was a guy that attached wheels to a bookshelf and wheeled it in.


When I proctored the exam, there was a gentleman with 4 milk crates of books strapped to a flatbed dolly. As soon as he was in his seat, he stacked them up like a bookcase and re-strapped them to the dolly. 



Chattaneer PE said:


> Just a warning, hopefully not to scare anyone, but _some_ proctors will require you to put all your references on the table. If it's not on the table before the exam starts, you can't use it.


This is not something I've ever heard of on this board. Or from when I proctored the exam. 

(FYI, I was allowed to proctor the exam and sign an NDA that I would not take the exam for 2 years from the time of my last round of proctoring. When I sat for the PE, that NDA had expired. Some of questioned this in the past so I'm putting this out there now)


----------



## DLD PE

Oct 2018 - Proctors checked your "Exam notification paper" thingy the board sends you in the mail two weeks before the exam and checked it against your ID.  They also checked your calculator to make sure you brought an approved one.  They did not check any references (for loose papers, etc.) or anything else you brought.  They basically warned against cell phones and read over a few rules.  Stuff on the floor/under desk?  No big deal as long as the walking path between desks was clear.  Once in a while proctors would get up and walk around among the desks, I guess to look over, observe a bit and make sure everything was kosher.

Oct 2019 - Same as above, except this time they didn't check the calculators.  Same proctors.

Note:  After the October 2019 exam, the security guard told me the April 2019 examinees seemed much more flustered and exhausted compared to the two I took.  I was talking to him because a few of the EEs had hung around to report/discuss the duplicate question.


----------



## Orchid PE

They didn't check my calculator, but doesn't really matter since my main school/work calculator was approved.

They did check my ID multiple times, and some questioned it because it was paper. Tennessee gives temporary drivers licenses that are printed on paper until the card copy is mailed to you.

Every exam is different. My proctors also said nobody was allowed to keep a pencil. They made sure every examinee returned a pencil. They only gave out 1 pencil to each person, and you had to raise your hand for a second pencil, but still had to return both.


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> They didn't check my calculator, but doesn't really matter since my main school/work calculator was approved.
> 
> They did check my ID multiple times, and some questioned it because it was paper. Tennessee gives temporary drivers licenses that are printed on paper until the card copy is mailed to you.
> 
> Every exam is different. My proctors also said nobody was allowed to keep a pencil. They made sure every examinee returned a pencil. They only gave out 1 pencil to each person, and you had to raise your hand for a second pencil, but still had to return both.


I have both pencils they gave us.  Here's praying my third is my last 

For some odd reason (because I'm not a stickler for such things), I managed to use the same exact mechanical pencil (with replaceable retractable twist-eraser) my entire college career.  For some reason it's been impossible to lose.  Every time I've moved or cleaned out a room it managed to turn up, so I kept using it.

If I pass, maybe I'll get a little trophy case for all these


----------



## Swift Fox

Can someone please help explain this solution.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Swift Fox said:


> Can someone please help explain this solution.
> 
> View attachment 16264


----------



## Swift Fox

Swift Fox said:


> Can someone please help explain this solution.
> 
> View attachment 16264


The answer to the questions is D. What I don't understand is why the transformer impedance and transformer rating doesn't cause a change in fault power on the low side?


----------



## DLD PE

Swift Fox said:


> The answer to the questions is D. What I don't understand is why the transformer impedance and transformer rating doesn't cause a change in fault power on the low side?


(deleted)


----------



## DilutedAr18_PE

MEtoEE said:


> I think the key is the wording.  C says fault _power _(which doesn't make sense)_,_ not fault current.


Yeah, I agree that it is the wording. It is a really weird question. The power available is still the same (minus any losses in the transformer) as the available power from the infinite bus which is unchanged. The fault current will be less on the secondary side of the transformer, which is what is typically the value we want to know.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

Swift Fox said:


> The answer to the questions is D. What I don't understand is why the transformer impedance and transformer rating doesn't cause a change in fault power on the low side?


Hi @Swift Fox, do you not have the solution? This question is from the Electrical PE Review Practice Exam.


----------



## DLD PE

Even though the _fault current_ is different on the primary and secondary sides of the transformer, the_ fault power _is the same on both sides.  Whether or not it's connected to an infinite bus doesn't matter.

(My apologies, my previous comment was not correct.)


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

MEtoEE said:


> Even though the _fault current_ is different on the primary and secondary sides of the transformer, the_ fault power _is the same on both sides.  Whether or not it's connected to an infinite bus doesn't matter.
> 
> (My apologies, my previous comment was not correct.)


Bingo!

It's a bit counter intuitive at first thought. It's also why transformers are commonly referred to as current limiting devices under fault conditions.

Another way to think of it is that inductors by nature slow, or "limit", the rate of change of current and are commonly used in filters and power conditioners for this very reason. Transformers are really just inductors with the primary and secondary coils manufactured inside of each other to allow for electromagnetic induction.


----------



## DLD PE

Thanks for that explanation, Zach.  I actually took your practice exam last fall and had this problem in my binder.  I still watch your free videos and even though the OP posted this problem, I did not recognize it, nor understand the solution at first.  There's just so much to absorb and understand and this tells me I some of the material on fault current analysis still has not sunk in.  

This is one reason I get on here and look at problems people post.  It's a good way to check myself and see what I remember/understand.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

MEtoEE said:


> Thanks for that explanation, Zach.  I actually took your practice exam last fall and had this problem in my binder.  I still watch your free videos and even though the OP posted this problem, I did not recognize it, nor understand the solution at first.  There's just so much to absorb and understand and this tells me I some of the material on fault current analysis still has not sunk in.
> 
> This is one reason I get on here and look at problems people post.  It's a good way to check myself and see what I remember/understand.


To be fair it's also a really tough problem. We put a lot of effort into making the qualitative questions in the practice exam challenging and thought provoking since qualitative questions are the hardest to prepare for.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

Swift Fox said:


> Can someone please help explain this solution.




Here is the full length solution to the problem for anyone else that wanted to work through it.

The solution explains the why *D is the correct answer,* and why answers A, B, and C are incorrect:




(you can click the image of the solution to make it bigger)


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Took the NCEES practice exam today! 59/80. First one i've taken timed, ended up running out of time on the afternoon session with 7 blank (oops! - some poor time management, some getting stuck on certain problems, some just didn't want to be doing this anymore)

Need to work on transformer testing, NEC stuff, and symmetrical components (sym. comp. problems were not worded anywhere close to the practice problems I've done).

Also realized I don't like my formula binder and need to tab my notebooks. I used my notes from Zach's course a LOT, the Cram book was helpful, Wildi was helpful, Glover was helpful, used Graffeo a little, and I used the cover of the Ugly's book a lot  

I see why you wanted that Power Electronics book now, @SparkyBill, there was WAY more power electronics than I expected on that practice exam. I just found a pdf of an older version online, so I'll probably just print it at work.

Great advice from @Zach Stone, P.E. to take full length, timed tests. I wanted to quit with 1:30 left to go. Got to train for the marathon.

How did everyone else do this weekend?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

speakeelsy said:


> Took the NCEES practice exam today! 59/80. First one i've taken timed, ended up running out of time on the afternoon session with 7 blank (oops! - some poor time management, some getting stuck on certain problems, some just didn't want to be doing this anymore)
> 
> Need to work on transformer testing, NEC stuff, and symmetrical components (sym. comp. problems were not worded anywhere close to the practice problems I've done).
> 
> Also realized I don't like my formula binder and need to tab my notebooks. I used my notes from Zach's course a LOT, the Cram book was helpful, Wildi was helpful, Glover was helpful, used Graffeo a little, and I used the cover of the Ugly's book a lot
> 
> I see why you wanted that Power Electronics book now, @SparkyBill, there was WAY more power electronics than I expected on that practice exam. I just found a pdf of an older version online, so I'll probably just print it at work.
> 
> Great advice from @Zach Stone, P.E. to take full length, timed tests. I wanted to quit with 1:30 left to go. Got to train for the marathon.
> 
> How did everyone else do this weekend?


I'm going to be putting in an all-dayer tomorrow doing practice test working problems. I'll be doing at least one full practice exam. I tried to use Zach's notes all I could but man I keep wasting WAY too much time trying to remember "what section" certain topics are in. Like it's hard to tell sometimes if its a motor starting/electrical theory/ other types problems when I read it. I hate that if I can't find it fast, i give up and start using other references (engineering pro guides/electrical guide to passing electrical exam/ etc). 

I am praying that I keep using it as my #1 reference, that by the time gets here, I will have all the "sub topics" in each of his topics memorized. It would be nice to have an index of each subtopic in alphabetical order but I don't want to take the entire day to make one.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

SparkyBill said:


> I'm going to be putting in an all-dayer tomorrow doing practice test working problems. I'll be doing at least one full practice exam. I tried to use Zach's notes all I could but man I keep wasting WAY too much time trying to remember "what section" certain topics are in. Like it's hard to tell sometimes if its a motor starting/electrical theory/ other types problems when I read it. I hate that if I can't find it fast, i give up and start using other references (engineering pro guides/electrical guide to passing electrical exam/ etc).
> 
> I am praying that I keep using it as my #1 reference, that by the time gets here, I will have all the "sub topics" in each of his topics memorized. It would be nice to have an index of each subtopic in alphabetical order but I don't want to take the entire day to make one.


Good Luck!!!

I've got all the main coursework in 2x 2in binders (ch 1-5 and ch 6-9) tabbed by chapter and section with a title (ex. 8.4 Power Quality), so I can look at the table of contents for each chapter really fast if needed. This worked very well today the few times I needed to look at the full course notes.

All the formula sheets are also in my 'main' formula binder -- though i prefer to work off problems rather than formulas, I used my notebooks that i've kept as I went through the course a lot more.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

speakeelsy said:


> Took the NCEES practice exam today! 59/80. First one i've taken timed, ended up running out of time on the afternoon session with 7 blank (oops! - some poor time management, some getting stuck on certain problems, some just didn't want to be doing this anymore)
> 
> Need to work on transformer testing, NEC stuff, and symmetrical components (sym. comp. problems were not worded anywhere close to the practice problems I've done).
> 
> Also realized I don't like my formula binder and need to tab my notebooks. I used my notes from Zach's course a LOT, the Cram book was helpful, Wildi was helpful, Glover was helpful, used Graffeo a little, and I used the cover of the Ugly's book a lot
> 
> I see why you wanted that Power Electronics book now, @SparkyBill, there was WAY more power electronics than I expected on that practice exam. I just found a pdf of an older version online, so I'll probably just print it at work.
> 
> Great advice from @Zach Stone, P.E. to take full length, timed tests. I wanted to quit with 1:30 left to go. Got to train for the marathon.
> 
> How did everyone else do this weekend?


Took the graffeo practice exam at the end of his book earlier today and got 74/80 with timed test. I finished 2 hrs in the morning session and 2.5 hrs in the afternoon session.
I was thinking that the problems in the actual exam is much harder( but I can’t really tell because this is my first time taking the PE exam) than the graffeo problems. I just based the problems from the NCEES practice exam since I only got 62/80 and used all the full 8hours. 
 

I didn’t really used up all of my other reference books since most of its problem can just be referenced to its own book. 
 

nevertheless, it was a good practice!


----------



## BebeshKing PE

SparkyBill said:


> I'm going to be putting in an all-dayer tomorrow doing practice test working problems. I'll be doing at least one full practice exam. I tried to use Zach's notes all I could but man I keep wasting WAY too much time trying to remember "what section" certain topics are in. Like it's hard to tell sometimes if its a motor starting/electrical theory/ other types problems when I read it. I hate that if I can't find it fast, i give up and start using other references (engineering pro guides/electrical guide to passing electrical exam/ etc).
> 
> I am praying that I keep using it as my #1 reference, that by the time gets here, I will have all the "sub topics" in each of his topics memorized. It would be nice to have an index of each subtopic in alphabetical order but I don't want to take the entire day to make one.


@SparkyBill, I used the index that’s similar to @ItsStudyTime!.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

BebeshKing said:


> @SparkyBill, I used the index that’s similar to @ItsStudyTime!.


Yeah I went the Zach way of each section being by the NCEES Specifications page. I made 2 binders A-Z There are 48 total sections so 26 letters x 2 binders means 52 tabs. SO each section has its own tab. I have an index at the start of each binder that labels those sections. 

So if its a illumination or an engineering economy I'm there in 5 seconds. What hurts is when its a small subsection, and its hidden in those 2 binders. I'm trying to add important subsections to my index


----------



## Orchid PE

I think I'm allowed to say this.

The NCEES sample exam is much easier.


----------



## DLD PE

SparkyBill said:


> Yeah I went the Zach way of each section being by the NCEES Specifications page. I made 2 binders A-Z There are 48 total sections so 26 letters x 2 binders means 52 tabs. SO each section has its own tab. I have an index at the start of each binder that labels those sections.
> 
> So if its a illumination or an engineering economy I'm there in 5 seconds. What hurts is when its a small subsection, and its hidden in those 2 binders. I'm trying to add important subsections to my index


Some practice exam problems (NCEES, Graffeo, etc) seem to "blend" 1 or 2 topics, in which case I would make copies and put them in both sections.


----------



## DLD PE

BebeshKing said:


> Took the graffeo practice exam at the end of his book earlier today and got 74/80 with timed test. I finished 2 hrs in the morning session and 2.5 hrs in the afternoon session.
> I was thinking that the problems in the actual exam is much harder( but I can’t really tell because this is my first time taking the PE exam) than the graffeo problems. I just based the problems from the NCEES practice exam since I only got 62/80 and used all the full 8hours.
> 
> 
> I didn’t really used up all of my other reference books since most of its problem can just be referenced to its own book.
> 
> 
> nevertheless, it was a good practice!


Those are pretty good scores for those exams, especially with the exam 2-1/2 months away.  That should be encouraging for you. Keep it up!


----------



## BebeshKing PE

SparkyBill said:


> Yeah I went the Zach way of each section being by the NCEES Specifications page. I made 2 binders A-Z There are 48 total sections so 26 letters x 2 binders means 52 tabs. SO each section has its own tab. I have an index at the start of each binder that labels those sections.
> 
> So if its a illumination or an engineering economy I'm there in 5 seconds. What hurts is when its a small subsection, and its hidden in those 2 binders. I'm trying to add important subsections to my index


What I typically do is to put  sticky flags inside the body of the pages(not on the edges of the reference binder) and then write the subsection or topic so that I can easily see it. 
i do also have two separate binders but the other one is all sample exams so that if I see a problem that is bizarre to me,  I will go to the binder with the sample exams and check if maybe there is a similar one.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

speakeelsy said:


> Took the NCEES practice exam today! 59/80. First one i've taken timed, ended up running out of time on the afternoon session with 7 blank (oops! - some poor time management, some getting stuck on certain problems, some just didn't want to be doing this anymore)
> 
> Need to work on transformer testing, NEC stuff, and symmetrical components (sym. comp. problems were not worded anywhere close to the practice problems I've done).
> 
> Also realized I don't like my formula binder and need to tab my notebooks. I used my notes from Zach's course a LOT, the Cram book was helpful, Wildi was helpful, Glover was helpful, used Graffeo a little, and I used the cover of the Ugly's book a lot
> 
> I see why you wanted that Power Electronics book now, @SparkyBill, there was WAY more power electronics than I expected on that practice exam. I just found a pdf of an older version online, so I'll probably just print it at work.
> 
> Great advice from @Zach Stone, P.E. to take full length, timed tests. I wanted to quit with 1:30 left to go. Got to train for the marathon.
> 
> How did everyone else do this weekend?


@speakeelsy Great job! You'll find yourself scoring higher and higher on practice exams the closer you get to the actual PE exam date. It's good to get used to the "shock factor" of attempting to solve questions that you are unfamiliar with now, and learning to use your references as tools.


----------



## Orchid PE

What exams are you guys taking this weekend, if any?

What topics are giving you the most trouble at this point?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What exams are you guys taking this weekend, if any?
> 
> What topics are giving you the most trouble at this point?


I took 2 spin ups 3 weeks ago, the white book the week before, and CI AM/PM (test 1) this past weekend. I don't think I can narrow down too much of a weak point, it looks like I am doing good at getting low hanging fruit, but the harder problems in a lot of sections I'm not able to connect the dots. 

I am noticing that Spinsups/CI that I took will not get u prepared for protection (which is the biggest section) which scares me. So I'm trying to do extra work in protection/NEC as much as possible.


----------



## Swift Fox

Chattaneer PE said:


> What exams are you guys taking this weekend, if any?
> 
> What topics are giving you the most trouble at this point?


I have taken 4 practice exams already. Started out doing pretty bad on the NCEES one and been working my way through 3 others after. My scores have improved a ton each test although some are easier than others. 

My biggest issue has been reading the problem and understanding exactly what they are asking for. For a majority of my missed points I have either just forgot a last step because I was going to fast or misread the question. There have been a couple tough problems that I probably wouldn't get correct no matter what. For the most part these problems are all attainable.

For me, it is all about problem recognition, find the formula, plug and chug.


----------



## DLD PE

I was supposed to take Graffeo this past weekend, but took a break and instead studied the "Electronic Power Devices" for Justin's Week 2 course (batteries, rectifiers, diodes, etc), a section I'm weak on.  I took his end of Week 1 practice exam and scored 70%.  

This weekend I'm scheduled to take "Cram for the Exam 1".


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What exams are you guys taking this weekend, if any?
> 
> What topics are giving you the most trouble at this point?


I'm planning on taking a Cram exam this weekend.

This week I retook the circuits quiz to prep for class tonight - I'm still having some issues remembering the phase shift. I need to complete the Code section of class - I have done fairly poorly on these questions.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

MEtoEE said:


> I was supposed to take Graffeo this past weekend, but took a break and instead studied the "Electronic Power Devices" for Justin's Week 2 course (batteries, rectifiers, diodes, etc), a section I'm weak on.  I took his end of Week 1 practice exam and scored 70%.
> 
> This weekend I'm scheduled to take "Cram for the Exam 1".


I feel like you did yourself a solid by not doing Graffeo as a timed test.


----------



## DLD PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I feel like you did yourself a solid by not doing Graffeo as a timed test.


How so?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

MEtoEE said:


> How so?


Based on the questions I've seen posted from Graffeo, they're leagues below the actual difficulty of the exam. Plus the book was written to an old exam spec anyway.


----------



## DLD PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Based on the questions I've seen posted from Graffeo, they're leagues below the actual difficulty of the exam. Plus the book was written to an old exam spec anyway.


Yes that's true. I worked through those exam problems a year ago and they're currently dispersed throughout my binder in their pertinent sections.  I took those exam questions with a grain of salt.  Some were super easy because you can just find them within the same book (not realistic) and a few of the questions were just outright weird.  It was also weak on a few sections, but still there were some good challenging problems.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I feel like you did yourself a solid by not doing Graffeo as a timed test.


Thanks for this! I felt kinda bad that I didn't take it timed. Everyone says it's a great place to start, and I needed something to get started since I've been out of school for a while, and don't do a lot of this stuff at work. It was a great review, and I took the exam over a week doing a 10 problems or so a night to get used to doing math and solving problems again.


----------



## Orchid PE

Graffeo is definitely a waste of time. The book as a reference is good, the sample exam is crap. It may have been relevant back in 2011 when he got licensed, but things have changed.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Does anyone else have the Fundamentals of Power System Protection by Paithankar and Bhide and think the quizzes in the back of the book are worth looking at?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Graffeo is definitely a waste of time. The book as a reference is good, the sample exam is crap. It may have been relevant back in 2011 when he got licensed, but things have changed.


Good to know. Thank you so much for helping us with resources so we don't spin our wheels on wasteful material!


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

speakeelsy said:


> Does anyone else have the Fundamentals of Power System Protection by Paithankar and Bhide and think the quizzes in the back of the book are worth looking at?


I have it but havent looked at the quizzes yet.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

At a quick glance, without spending time in the chapters, if you're weaker in protection, it may be worthwhile to go thru the problems. Some of the questions are below the level of the exam but I think they may help you in the long run


----------



## speakeelsy PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> At a quick glance, without spending time in the chapters, if you're weaker in protection, it may be worthwhile to go thru the problems. Some of the questions are below the level of the exam but I think they may help you in the long run


Thank you!!! I may try to do some of them then. It's not my best subject, but I'm more weak on the theory than the math.


----------



## Swift Fox

Does anyone have any protection practice problems they recommend?


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

SparkyBill said:


> Yeah I went the Zach way of each section being by the NCEES Specifications page. I made 2 binders A-Z There are 48 total sections so 26 letters x 2 binders means 52 tabs. SO each section has its own tab. I have an index at the start of each binder that labels those sections.
> 
> So if its a illumination or an engineering economy I'm there in 5 seconds. What hurts is when its a small subsection, and its hidden in those 2 binders. I'm trying to add important subsections to my index


Not sure if this will help you, but the other thing I did once I had my dividers &amp; sections &amp; TOC sorted was that I wrote on the top right corner of pages - just a little 'keyword note' about what was on that page/in that problem. 'motor, DC, theory' or similar. That helped with the 'sub-section' thing a bit, because i could 'fan' through the corners quickly trying to see if the keyword was in this section or that section if I narrowed it down. The format of the keyed notes is like, _'main thing on this page, sub-thing relevant to this page or problem, other keyword related to this that may not be in top-level-section name'_ or something like that. Helped with quickly finding problems once I was in the right section, but also helped locate related-but-not-exactly aligned sub-topic type info within a section. Nothing bigger than what would fit in the 1''x1'' square in the top right corner, only a few words, stacked maybe 2 or 3 deep within that square.


----------



## Orchid PE

How was studying over the weekend???

Anyone take timed practice exams? Score?

Has anyone tried practicing going somewhere other than home to take a timed practice exam?

The exam is just under 10 weeks out, right (April 17)?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> How was studying over the weekend???
> 
> Anyone take timed practice exams? Score?
> 
> Has anyone tried practicing going somewhere other than home to take a timed practice exam?
> 
> The exam is just under 10 weeks out, right (April 17)?


Had strep throat last 5 days but got to study a pretty good bit on Sunday, I have taken a couple practice test but need to take more timed. Technically I've taken 5 practice test but only 2 were timed. I can not take a practice test at home, I don't see how anyone could with as much reference books as it takes. It's much easier to leave all my reference material at work and just come here to take practice test. 

Yes we have less than 10 weeks! 9.5!


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> Had strep throat last 5 days but got to study a pretty good bit on Sunday, I have taken a couple practice test but need to take more timed. Technically I've taken 5 practice test but only 2 were timed. I can not take a practice test at home, I don't see how anyone could with as much reference books as it takes. It's much easier to leave all my reference material at work and just come here to take practice test.
> 
> Yes we have less than 10 weeks! 9.5!


It's good practice to go somewhere and lug your references with you. Like starbucks or something. Just to get in the habit of gathering everything you need. I think it's a good idea to make sure you keep every book/reference in the same physical place in your crate (or whatever) so it's easier to recognize if you're missing something.

When I began studying I had all of my references in the crate. When I started a session I pulled them all out, and when I was finished I put them all back. I never left anything out sitting on a table or anything. That was also because I would study at different places (in addition to home), so I had really good practice and making sure I had everything I needed for a study session (pencils, calculator, books, etc.).


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> It's good practice to go somewhere and lug your references with you. Like starbucks or something. Just to get in the habit of gathering everything you need. I think it's a good idea to make sure you keep every book/reference in the same physical place in your crate (or whatever) so it's easier to recognize if you're missing something.
> 
> When I began studying I had all of my references in the crate. When I started a session I pulled them all out, and when I was finished I put them all back. I never left anything out sitting on a table or anything. That was also because I would study at different places (in addition to home), so I had really good practice and making sure I had everything I needed for a study session (pencils, calculator, books, etc.).


Random question to anyone with experience with libraries. Like I can't study at home, i got 2 5 year old twin princesses and I can't do it so I have to leave. 

Would it be awkward or raise safety concerns if i wheeled a suit case into a library? I think I have more reference than most EE's, but that's the kind of person I am. I want to feel over prepared and have everything I MIGHT need with me. So I'm assuming. 

I just counted, right now I have somewhere b/w 27-30 Binders/books combined. So I will be rolling in a large suit case to the exam.


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> Would it be awkward or raise safety concerns if i wheeled a suit case into a library?


They might think a) You're there to try to steal books, or b) you're homeless and looking for a place to crash lol

Does UTC have study rooms that can be rented out? At my college library there were study rooms that could be rented for the day. It was free to anyone with a college ID.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> They might think a) You're there to try to steal books, or b) you're homeless and looking for a place to crash lol
> 
> Does UTC have study rooms that can be rented out? At my college library there were study rooms that could be rented for the day. It was free to anyone with a college ID.


Problem is parking, UTC is VERY quick at slinging tickets. They have tons of meter maids constantly patrolling. I have a freaking double alumni tag they need to just honor it and not ticket me on weekends. Like no one is there on weekends anyways


----------



## DLD PE

SparkyBill said:


> Random question to anyone with experience with libraries. Like I can't study at home, i got 2 5 year old twin princesses and I can't do it so I have to leave.
> 
> Would it be awkward or raise safety concerns if i wheeled a suit case into a library? I think I have more reference than most EE's, but that's the kind of person I am. I want to feel over prepared and have everything I MIGHT need with me. So I'm assuming.
> 
> I just counted, right now I have somewhere b/w 27-30 Binders/books combined. So I will be rolling in a large suit case to the exam.


I never lugged a suitcase into the library, but last year I had the habit of going in/out multiple times to get in all my references, including a large book-bag with shoulder strap, to a table and I would spread out all my stuff before starting the timer.  The library was a great place because they have tables similar to the real exam, plus once in a while you'll hear people and little kids running around so it helps to bring ear plugs anyway.  

I do my timed practice exams at the library or at home.  At home it's not bad because I have the upstairs bonus room to myself and my wife will usually take our son somewhere for a few hours.

We went out of town this past weekend so I wasn't able to to a full timed exam.  I scored 4/10 on the Eng Pro Guides end-of-week exam (batteries, rectifiers, ladder logic), which pissed me off because I did much better on circuits, but it was good for me to know what I need to work on.  I did a 4-hour timed morning session for Cram the Exam Part 1 and scored 23/40.  Those were good problems.


----------



## DLD PE

I go to the local public library.  There's two I can choose from.  Problem is, they're only open 9-5 on weekends, so I can barely get in an 8 hour session.  That's not bad, because at this point most practice exams shouldn't take the full 4 hours so maybe the extra pressure would help me lol.

The library in the older part of our town has homeless people that hang/wander around sometimes so a suitcase would definitely arouse suspicion in my case.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

SparkyBill said:


> I can not take a practice test at home, I don't see how anyone could with as much reference books as it takes. It's much easier to leave all my reference material at work and just come here to take practice test.


My final attempt at studying, I studied at my boyfriend's house at a desk that was 24"x36" and awful legroom [I was basically living there and was slowly moving in, he was in fact aware lol]

I didn't want to study at work and have my stuff here since I kept it from most of my coworkers that I was even taking it


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> My final attempt at studying, I studied at my boyfriend's house at a desk that was 24"x36" and awful legroom [I was basically living there and was slowly moving in, he was in fact aware lol]
> 
> I didn't want to study at work and have my stuff here since I kept it from most of my coworkers that I was even taking it


Oh for sure, if my coworkers didn't know i would never study here. But all my directors/VP's made the biggest deal after getting my master's and passing FE that THEY KNEW I WOULD PASS PE FIRST TIME AND WANTED ME TO SIGN UP FOR IN THIS APRIL. So yeah, you're right, if they didn't know about it I would NEVER have anything at work lol.


----------



## DLD PE

I'm the exact opposite.  I told everybody, and no one, not even my boss or owner of the company (it's a small company) seemed to care or remember:

1.  When the exam was.

2.  Whether or not I even took a review course (even though they paid for it).  This third time around, I told the owner I wanted to take a review course (Justin's).  He said, "Oh yeah that's a great idea!" He didn't even remember me taking Zach's course the first time.

3.  How many times I even took it (when I took it the second time my boss thought it would be the third time).

4.  If I even passed.  I told everyone on Dec. 13th (yes I still remember)  that I didn't pass.  The owner came into my office a month later and asked if I had gotten the results yet.


----------



## daydreambeliever

I would maybe just talk to someone at the front desk of the library and let them know what you are doing. Once they see the spread you have they should understand why you needed a suitcase  :laugh:

I like to take practice exams at my office. We have conference/training rooms with setups similar to the exam site. I am using a carry on suitcase to carry my references around. I may upgrade to a full size suitcase though. I like having all of my references completely protected. I had an experience last year or the year before when it was pouring rain on test day and my stuff was stored in a rolling crate. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

So far I have taken 2 timed tests. Both Complex Imaginary. I scored around a 70 on both. The last one I took I left a few of my references at home (thus the need for the full size suitcase) and I know I could have answered 4 or 5 more questions with those references. Still not feeling great even if I had gotten those 4 or 5 additional questions correct. The CI exams are too simple so to feel comfortable I think I should be scoring 85+

We passed the flu around in our house last week so I'm a little behind. Trying to catch up this week and plan on taking a timed test this weekend. I'm thinking I'll give one of the Cram for the PE exams a go or Eng Pro Guide.

How have you guys scored on the Complex Imaginary exams. With the scores I've gotten I really need to buckle down.


----------



## DLD PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I would maybe just talk to someone at the front desk of the library and let them know what you are doing. Once they see the spread you have they should understand why you needed a suitcase  :laugh:
> 
> I like to take practice exams at my office. We have conference/training rooms with setups similar to the exam site. I am using a carry on suitcase to carry my references around. I may upgrade to a full size suitcase though. I like having all of my references completely protected. I had an experience last year or the year before when it was pouring rain on test day and my stuff was stored in a rolling crate. NEVER AGAIN!!!!
> 
> So far I have taken 2 timed tests. Both Complex Imaginary. I scored around a 70 on both. The last one I took I left a few of my references at home (thus the need for the full size suitcase) and I know I could have answered 4 or 5 more questions with those references. Still not feeling great even if I had gotten those 4 or 5 additional questions correct. The CI exams are too simple so to feel comfortable I think I should be scoring 85+
> 
> We passed the flu around in our house last week so I'm a little behind. Trying to catch up this week and plan on taking a timed test this weekend. I'm thinking I'll give one of the Cram for the PE exams a go or Eng Pro Guide.
> 
> How have you guys scored on the Complex Imaginary exams. With the scores I've gotten I really need to buckle down.


I took CI #1 at the end of the 1st week in January and scored 63/80 (79%).  

Hang in there.  We have 2 months left, so just start back taking timed tests and make indexes/lists on topics you're struggling with.  You're in my class right?  Feel free to ask me about the any of the homework/end of week problems you're struggling with.  His are pretty good in my opinion.  Cram for PE is a good practice exam to take.  I know there are 4 out there but I only have the first one.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

daydreambeliever said:


> (thus the need for the full size suitcase) and I know I could have answered 4 or 5 more questions with those references. Still not feeling great even if I had gotten those 4 or 5 additional questions correct.


Welp, I was already going to take everything. I am FOR SURE taking everything now. Seems silly not too.


----------



## DLD PE

SparkyBill said:


> Welp, I was already going to take everything. I am FOR SURE taking everything now. Seems silly not too.


There's no reason not to take something if you've read through it, have a good index or at least put some tabs in so you know where to find something when needed.  

There will definitely be a few books you'll bring that you never use.  That happens to all of us.  I'd rather have 3 books I never use than have one I didn't bring and wish I had it.


----------



## a4u2fear

I brought a 100lb suitcase with me.  I work in a utility office and have many old books that I found to be useful on the exam.  There are enough "oddball" questions that I thought it's better to bring everything than leave something behind.  You never know if you pass by 1 question or 10, I found one question on the exam in one of my old books that I should've likely never brought to the exam, but I did.  

I had books everywhere, on my table, under my seat, next to my seat, no one complained and proctors didn't say anything.


----------



## Orchid PE

Someone should print this out and put it in the cover sleeve of a binder lol


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Someone should print this out and put it in the cover sleeve of a binder lol
> 
> View attachment 16429


lol beat me to it!  I have the drawing on the right printed out already.  The plastic covers on the binders I used had plain sheets of paper inserted and labeled such as "NEC Code Info" or "Eng Pro Guides Practice Exams".  My consolidated binder with all my combined sections and notes is called "THE BINDER" lol.

I was going to take that drawing on the right and use it for one of my binders to see how many looks/laughs I get.

Someone should use it as their avatar lol.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Just be careful guys. I think inserting sheets to the plastic cover binder is not a good idea. The papers should be bounded/attached to the binder. That's my perception, atleast.


----------



## DLD PE

BebeshKing said:


> Just be careful guys. I think inserting sheets to the plastic cover binder is not a good idea. The papers should be bounded/attached to the binder. That's my perception, atleast.


I saw others doing it and none of my proctors ever mentioned it.  A lot of these binders come with a cover sheet already inside the plastic cover.  I just replaced it with something I could identify easily.  You can also buy them without the cover and just write on them with a sharpie.


----------



## Dude99

The wording is important
FAULT power...NOT total input power

obviously the xfmr has losses but input P = fault + losses

output = fault

therefore the FAULT P component is the same on both sides but total in vs out is not

another take: inf bus Z source = 0, ie, no Vdrop

input P=1/pu Z, no drop means output P =1/pu Z AVAILABLE

the losses are still fault P supplied by the source, even if the bolted fault Z=0 meaning all fault P is dissipated in the xfmr itself



Swift Fox said:


> The answer to the questions is D. What I don't understand is why the transformer impedance and transformer rating doesn't cause a change in fault power on the low side?


----------



## Cram For The PE

MEtoEE said:


> I took CI #1 at the end of the 1st week in January and scored 63/80 (79%).
> 
> Hang in there.  We have 2 months left, so just start back taking timed tests and make indexes/lists on topics you're struggling with.  You're in my class right?  Feel free to ask me about the any of the homework/end of week problems you're struggling with.  His are pretty good in my opinion.  Cram for PE is a good practice exam to take.  I know there are 4 out there but I only have the first one.


Thank you MetoEE for your kind words about the Cram book. My other two sample test have completely original questions from the first. No repeats! If you could be so kind to leave a review on Amazon so other engineers get the proper feedback. I offer money back for those that leave reviews. See www.cramforthepe.com for details.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Took the Cram practice test #1 today with timed. Got 60/80. 

would like ask some questions in some of my mistakes.


----------



## Cram For The PE

BebeshKing said:


> Took the Cram practice test #1 today with timed. Got 60/80.
> 
> would like ask some questions in some of my mistakes.


60/80 is very good. You can send me an email via

http://cramforthepe.com/index.php/contact/://cramforthepe.com/index.php/contact/

I would be happy to answer all your questions. I have two other sample exams that have very different questions from exam 1.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

T - 8 Weeks to go until April 17th


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Took the first half of @Zach Stone, P.E. practice exam today and ran out of time. The code problems are tricky! I need to work on code, capacitors, and getting more familiar with transmission line problems.

Id love to read some more about problem #11 if you have a suggested reference, the whole concept is fascinating!


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

speakeelsy said:


> Took the first half of @Zach Stone, P.E. practice exam today and ran out of time. The code problems are tricky! I need to work on code, capacitors, and getting more familiar with transmission line problems.
> 
> Id love to read some more about problem #11 if you have a suggested reference, the whole concept is fascinating!


Hi @speakeelsy, Glad you enjoyed the problem.

Just about any good protection book should touch on transformer inrush and the effects it can have on protection considerations. _Blackburn's Protective Relaying Principles and Applications _does a good job discussing it in Chapter 9 if you have the book. You can find a link to the book among others that we recommend for the PE exam on our list of Recommended References for the Electrical Power PE Exam.

If anyone else is curious, here is the problem from the Electrical Engineering PE Practice Exam and Technical Study Guide by Electrical PE Review:

​
 ​
​
 ​
Don't forget you can click each image to make it larger.


----------



## Orchid PE

Coming up on 6 weeks until the exam?

What do y'alls "milk crates" look like?


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Coming up on 6 weeks until the exam?
> 
> What do y'alls "milk crates" look like?


My references are not in the milk crate yet. I might going to get a storage bin rather than a milk crate because of these big loads I have right now.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

I will have between 20-25 books (at least) counting my 5-6 "code binders". I will be bringing our "extra large rolling suite case". No way a milk crate is carrying all I'm bringing.


----------



## Orchid PE

BebeshKing said:


> My references are not in the milk crate yet. I might going to get a storage bin rather than a milk crate because of these big loads I have right now.


Those are some big binders. What do you have in them?

Do you have the NFPA 497, 499, and 30B in that stack?


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> I will have between 20-25 books (at least) counting my 5-6 "code binders". I will be bringing our "extra large rolling suite case". No way a milk crate is carrying all I'm bringing.


Got a picture?


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Those are some big binders. What do you have in them?
> 
> Do you have the NFPA 497, 499, and 30B in that stack?


Those big binders are my practice worked problems and references from different resources.    

Yes. all those codes you mentioned are in a separate binder(located on the top left) together with my NESC 2017 .


----------



## ItsStudyTime!

BebeshKing said:


> Those big binders are my practice worked problems and references from different resources.
> 
> Yes. all those codes you mentioned are in a separate binder(located on the top left) together with my NESC 2017 .


Heck yeah! Look at those elegantly organized D-rings. You are gonna kill it!

Seriously though, that is SO MANY problems! So much repetition and studying just tucked in every corner of your brain. So good!

Good luck


----------



## BebeshKing PE

ItsStudyTime! said:


> Heck yeah! Look at those elegantly organized D-rings. You are gonna kill it!
> 
> Seriously though, that is SO MANY problems! So much repetition and studying just tucked in every corner of your brain. So good!
> 
> Good luck


@ItsStudyTime! ,those setup were inspired by you, though. . Followed your study setup and the index style. The problems are not really repetitive. There  just too many articles and subtopics I added in there just to make sure to kill each of the problems on the PE exam.


----------



## GHermann

Hello,

I think I asked this before but I didn't get any replies. Are there any study groups out there who maybe meet up over skype/discord? I study way better in a group with other people.

Thanks



BebeshKing said:


> My references are not in the milk crate yet. I might going to get a storage bin rather than a milk crate because of these big loads I have right now.
> 
> View attachment 16621


That looks really good. I kind of feel like I should be doing that considering that all of my worked problems are in sets of spiral bound notebooks. Do you use tabs on any of them?


----------



## BebeshKing PE

@GHermann, i used A-Z tabs. Link is below:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017ETNVT6/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Coming up on 6 weeks until the exam?
> 
> What do y'alls "milk crates" look like?


The goods all crated up!

Bottom left has main references including my main custom binder, custom spirals, and code books! Tabs out so they dont get crushed!

Top left is extra books i haven't really used, stuff i need to read/look through and practice exams. (Some are still blank - we still have more saturdays to study!)

Right crate is binders of extra references, Zach's coursework, a home print edition of blackburn, and an older NCEES FE guide that im thinking of replacing with an updated copy.

Also included are tabs galore, a coaster, a hairband, and trusty TI-36X Pro

Not included are another power electronics book, a circuits book that i may or may not take, and a Panicked Engineer!


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

BebeshKing said:


> @GHermann, i used A-Z tabs. Link is below:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017ETNVT6/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


Those are the tabs I used for my 2 binders. Man they are wonderful!


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

I counted around 24 here, can someone PLEASE feel free to zoom in and let me know if you see any references I"m missing that you would strongly suggest me take. The two big binders are my Zach Stone course work/quiz problems worked/live class work/ etc. Those are my main 2 binders. 

Not in this picture,  I have my Beaty "electrical engineering fundamentals" book and maybe a couple more I'll be bringing.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

SparkyBill said:


> I counted around 24 here, can someone PLEASE feel free to zoom in and let me know if you see any references I"m missing that you would strongly suggest me take. The two big binders are my Zach Stone course work/quiz problems worked/live class work/ etc. Those are my main 2 binders.
> 
> Not in this picture,  I have my Beaty "electrical engineering fundamentals" book and maybe a couple more I'll be bringing.
> 
> View attachment 16626


WOW! Looking good Bill! I think you've got a solid stack!


----------



## DLD PE

I'm actually thinking about putting all my "protection" stuff in one single binder.  It's just a huge section with all the references I have.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

How did the practice exams this weekend go?

I did EngProGuides Full and got a 56/80... are we considering that passing?

Not my best, and Im missing things all over the board still, xbut there were several items Id never seen and a few PU issues i need to figure out. I liked the bonus problems too. Did much better on timing this weekend!

Im starting to work through Cram #1 again today, and working on symmetrical components.


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

speakeelsy said:


> How did the practice exams this weekend go?
> 
> I did EngProGuides Full and got a 56/80... are we considering that passing?
> 
> Not my best, and Im missing things all over the board still, xbut there were several items Id never seen and a few PU issues i need to figure out. I liked the bonus problems too. Did much better on timing this weekend!
> 
> Im starting to work through Cram #1 again today, and working on symmetrical components.


Wow I think that's a great score! I worked through Cram exam 1 this weekend myself. I thought I was strong in qualitative problems (being a little older with all my experience being power) but I couldn't guess them or find them in my Wildi/Chapman/Glover books


----------



## DLD PE

I scored 60% on the Eng Pro Guides end of week 6 problems on protection.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

speakeelsy said:


> How did the practice exams this weekend go?
> 
> I did EngProGuides Full and got a 56/80... are we considering that passing?
> 
> Not my best, and Im missing things all over the board still, xbut there were several items Id never seen and a few PU issues i need to figure out. I liked the bonus problems too. Did much better on timing this weekend!
> 
> Im starting to work through Cram #1 again today, and working on symmetrical components.


Took Cram #3 practice exam yesterday. Got 53/80. His exams were so intense! 

Gonna post some questions here after I review all my mistakes.

Thanks in advance!

@Cram For The PE


----------



## speakeelsy PE

SparkyBill said:


> Wow I think that's a great score! I worked through Cram exam 1 this weekend myself. I thought I was strong in qualitative problems (being a little older with all my experience being power) but I couldn't guess them or find them in my Wildi/Chapman/Glover books


Thanks Bill!

Most of the Cram #1 stuff is in the Cram Book - totally recommend reading it with a highlighter. It has a lot of random info hidden in it.

Also I write down references to most of my solved problems if you'd like to know where to find something.



MEtoEE said:


> I scored 60% on the Eng Pro Guides end of week 6 problems on protection.


Good Job!!!


----------



## Orchid PE

speakeelsy said:


> a coaster


If I remember correctly, my proctors wouldn't allow food or drinks on the table. They had to be kept on the floor.


----------



## daydreambeliever

I scored 75% on the EngPro Guide Full Exam last weekend. There were several problems that I had to guess on and got right so I definitely still have work to do. I don't remember what topics I struggled with the most. I was a complete slacker over weekend. This coming up weekend I'm going to take #1 in the crammed series. 

Love seeing all the pics of everyone's stash. I'll try to remember to take a pic of all my references tonight.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

daydreambeliever said:


> I scored 75% on the EngPro Guide Full Exam last weekend. There were several problems that I had to guess on and got right so I definitely still have work to do. I don't remember what topics I struggled with the most. I was a complete slacker over weekend. This coming up weekend I'm going to take #1 in the crammed series.
> 
> Love seeing all the pics of everyone's stash. I'll try to remember to take a pic of all my references tonight.


WOW! Good Job! 

Definitely take a pic, it's so much fun to see what everyone has!



Chattaneer PE said:


> If I remember correctly, my proctors wouldn't allow food or drinks on the table. They had to be kept on the floor.


 Coaster won't be included in the final haul... it just ended up in my photo.  I would be that person that spilled soda all over my scantron!


----------



## daydreambeliever

speakeelsy said:


> WOW! Good Job!
> 
> Definitely take a pic, it's so much fun to see what everyone has!


Thanks!

It makes me feel better seeing these photos. I have always taken this exam with a milk crate full of books or rolling in a suitcase. I have sat near other electricals who have only carried the Camara reference a code book and maybe one other book. All I could think is, what is wrong with me that I need all of this to pass this exam!?!?!!


----------



## Novanian

Yeah the cram exams are no joke. I have learned a considerable amount just from them. Especially relations between equations I hadn't  considered and when I saw it I almost face palmed at how obvious it was...


----------



## Orchid PE

I'd like to know what future and past exam takers think about purchasing books close to the exam.

My thought: Any new reference books purchased now, you won't have much time to get familiar with them before the exam. So if you do open them during the exam, it will take time to go through them when searching for answers. I purchased and received a book a few _days_* *before the exam. It did help me answer 1 problem, but it was a power system analysis book, so the layout was pretty similar to others. And it was the only reference book I had that I wasn't familiar with.

And then what about having too many references? I can see that having too many references could prevent you spending adequate time on every question.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I'd like to know what future and past exam takers think about purchasing books close to the exam.
> 
> My thought: Any new reference books purchased now, you won't have much time to get familiar with them before the exam. So if you do open them during the exam, it will take time to go through them when searching for answers. I purchased and received a book a few _days_* *before the exam. It did help me answer 1 problem, but it was a power system analysis book, so the layout was pretty similar to others. And it was the only reference book I had that I wasn't familiar with.
> 
> And then what about having too many references? I can see that having too many references could prevent you spending adequate time on every question.


I'm a first time exam taker, and I just recently bought a reference books in power electronics, and protective relaying. This is for the reason of covering myself with a qualitative questions that I am not familiar with. These books will be my last thing to open during the exam since I will not be familiar with it.


----------



## daydreambeliever

Here is my stash. I'm missing a protection book. I've already read through it so I just need to find it and browse through it again. The only book here I'm not familiar with is the electronics book. I did pretty poorly in that topic last time so I need to sit down and spend some time going through it.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Here is my stash. I'm missing a protection book. I've already read through it so I just need to find it and browse through it again. The only book here I'm not familiar with is the electronics book. I did pretty poorly in that topic last time so I need to sit down and spend some time going through it.
> 
> View attachment 16700


So many binders!!!

What's that protective relaying theory and applications book? Do you like it?


----------



## daydreambeliever

speakeelsy said:


> So many binders!!!
> 
> What's that protective relaying theory and applications book? Do you like it?


Yeah I have a lot of binders. I took Zach's class so all of that course work is in the purple, pink, blue and white binder that is not labeled. The grey one is quick reference formulas and the black one is worked out problems.

So far so good with the Protective Relaying book. I've only gotten through the first few chapters. Not sure if I'm going to have time to get through the whole book. The second link below is for the book I couldn't find last night. The last time I took the exam I read through the whole book and really liked it. It was an easy read. I think the book I have pictured may be more helpful for the conceptual questions but I'm not 100% positive yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0824709721/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8120341236/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


----------



## Orchid PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Yeah I have a lot of binders. I took Zach's class so all of that course work is in the purple, pink, blue and white binder that is not labeled. The grey one is quick reference formulas and the black one is worked out problems.
> 
> So far so good with the Protective Relaying book. I've only gotten through the first few chapters. Not sure if I'm going to have time to get through the whole book. The second link below is for the book I couldn't find last night. The last time I took the exam I read through the whole book and really liked it. It was an easy read. I think the book I have pictured may be more helpful for the conceptual questions but I'm not 100% positive yet.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0824709721/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8120341236/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


I just recently ordered the book in the second link. It should be coming in today. I mean, for $30, that's not a bad price for more knowledge.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Yeah I have a lot of binders. I took Zach's class so all of that course work is in the purple, pink, blue and white binder that is not labeled. The grey one is quick reference formulas and the black one is worked out problems.
> 
> So far so good with the Protective Relaying book. I've only gotten through the first few chapters. Not sure if I'm going to have time to get through the whole book. The second link below is for the book I couldn't find last night. The last time I took the exam I read through the whole book and really liked it. It was an easy read. I think the book I have pictured may be more helpful for the conceptual questions but I'm not 100% positive yet.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0824709721/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8120341236/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


I have the 2nd book and i really like it! It much easier to read than Blackburn, I probably need to read through it in more detail. I've mostly read chapters as needed when I came across something felt I needed to know in more detail. I found a pdf of the Sleva book too, but haven't looked at it yet.

Thanks!


----------



## daydreambeliever

Chattaneer PE said:


> I just recently ordered the book in the second link. It should be coming in today. I mean, for $30, that's not a bad price for more knowledge.


Exactly! It really was an easy read. I think I made my way through it including tabbing in 2 weeks or less just by reading it before bed. Not exactly my preferred bedtime book genre but it was ok.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

daydreambeliever said:


> Yeah I have a lot of binders. I took Zach's class so all of that course work is in the purple, pink, blue and white binder that is not labeled. The grey one is quick reference formulas and the black one is worked out problems.
> 
> So far so good with the Protective Relaying book. I've only gotten through the first few chapters. Not sure if I'm going to have time to get through the whole book. The second link below is for the book I couldn't find last night. The last time I took the exam I read through the whole book and really liked it. It was an easy read. I think the book I have pictured may be more helpful for the conceptual questions but I'm not 100% positive yet.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0824709721/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8120341236/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1


pro tip on binder: if you notice some of the rings starting to shift/separate, tape them. Just 2 wraps of electrical tape will work. 

I actually had the rings on my NESC fail (I printed it from pdf I got thru work). And you don't want them to fail during the exam. 

Maybe unlike me, you bought your binders new and didn't pull them from the bin that came back from a jobsite where binders go to die


----------



## daydreambeliever

LyceeFruit PE said:


> pro tip on binder: if you notice some of the rings starting to shift/separate, tape them. Just 2 wraps of electrical tape will work.


THANKS!!!! That's an awesome tip! I've used the same binders for every exam so the rings are starting to lose some of their strength. Once I think I'm done adding/moving things around I will definitely do that!


----------



## Orchid PE

Has anyone practiced sitting through and taking a practice exam in 8 hours? Or mainly just splitting it in half and doing two 4 hour sessions?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Has anyone practiced sitting through and taking a practice exam in 8 hours? Or mainly just splitting it in half and doing two 4 hour sessions?


I've done the 8 hour timed exam twice so far. AM/PM with a 1 hour break trying to mimic the test day. 

I plan doing it again this weekend with either ENGR FULL exam or Cram for PE test 2. Not sure which one yet. I've heard great things about both so I don't think I could go wrong.


----------



## Orchid PE

SparkyBill said:


> I've done the 8 hour timed exam twice so far. AM/PM with a 1 hour break trying to mimic the test day.
> 
> I plan doing it again this weekend with either ENGR FULL exam or Cram for PE test 2. Not sure which one yet. I've heard great things about both so I don't think I could go wrong.


What wort of times are you looking at with your passes? Like 1st pass 2hr, 2nd pass 1hr, 3rd pass 30min, etc.?

Or are you even doing passes?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What wort of times are you looking at with your passes? Like 1st pass 2hr, 2nd pass 1hr, 3rd pass 30min, etc.?
> 
> Or are you even doing passes?


First one I didn't do passes, second one I did. I think for main exam I will FOR SURE do passes so I am training that way from here on out. 

I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse but I'm pretty quick at knowing if I know how to do something or if I don't. So I have been moving through them fairly quickly. I just need to keep hammering through practice exams to get exposed to as much material as possible.


----------



## daydreambeliever

I completed the EngPro Full Exam a couple weeks ago and replicated testing conditions in a conference room at work. I took more/longer bathroom and drink breaks than I will on test day but everything else was similar. I did passes as well. 1st pass - all the questions I could answer easily, 2nd pass - all code questions and 3rd pass - everything that I needed to dig a little deeper for. I'm not sure how long each pass took. The AM session I finished about 45 min early so I went back and checked some of my work. The PM session I had a harder time with. I could tell that I was getting tired and just wanted to be done. I've been down this road multiple times so I know that on test day my adrenaline will kick in so that won't be as big of a concern. On test day I'll also have a couple energy drinks to help out.

Game plan is to replicate test day and do the first CRAM exam on Sunday.


----------



## GHermann

Hi, I've been working through School of PE, CramforthePE, and Complex Imaginary; and it's become pretty clear to me that I am not ready for this exam. I'm at the crossroads of either cancelling my test and attempting it again in October, or just going full steam ahead and trying it while making plans to take it again in October anyway. What would you do in my situation?


----------



## Orchid PE

Man, idk. Sounds like you're in a little bit of a pickle. With the exam only 5 weeks away, and you not feeling ready, that's not too good.

How are you doing on the practice exams? What scores are you getting?

I don't know what the rules say about cancelling. Can you cancel and get money back? Does your engineering board need anything submitted for you to take it in October?


----------



## Sparky Bill PE

GHermann said:


> Hi, I've been working through School of PE, CramforthePE, and Complex Imaginary; and it's become pretty clear to me that I am not ready for this exam. I'm at the crossroads of either cancelling my test and attempting it again in October, or just going full steam ahead and trying it while making plans to take it again in October anyway. What would you do in my situation?


Never reschedule. It's just money you can always make more. I would have paid the $ for the October exam even if I didn't have a chance of passing just for the opportunity. That's an experience you LITERALLY can not buy besides being there.


----------



## GHermann

Chattaneer PE said:


> Man, idk. Sounds like you're in a little bit of a pickle. With the exam only 5 weeks away, and you not feeling ready, that's not too good.
> 
> How are you doing on the practice exams? What scores are you getting?
> 
> I don't know what the rules say about cancelling. Can you cancel and get money back? Does your engineering board need anything submitted for you to take it in October?


Yeah, it's definitely on my mind. I'm in Florida so I don't believe that I will need anything other than registering with NCEES again in order to take it again in October. As for getting money back; I'm really not worried about the money. I'm more worried about how awful I'll feel if I go to take it and have no idea what I am doing.

Practice exams, it's not looking good. I'm not sitting down to take them as if I'm taking the PE because I get hung up on problems and get curious about the answer. I'm aware that this only makes it more difficult on me as I should be practicing in an environment that I'm familiar with; but I'm not feeling very confident every time I turn the page to a new set of problems.



SparkyBill said:


> Never reschedule. It's just money you can always make more. I would have paid the $ for the October exam even if I didn't have a chance of passing just for the opportunity. That's an experience you LITERALLY can not buy besides being there.


This is a great point in that  the experience alone would be worth it; but I worry that the experience would also discourage me from it as well. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

@GHermann I believe its too late for you to reschedule. Your options are skip &amp; get a no show or go &amp; get exposure to the test.

I 100% understand how you feel right now. And I stand firmly in the "go take the test" camp. Why do you ask? Ive been in your shoes. More than once. I took the test 7 times. I did not study for 3 of those attempts. Like at all. Because of burn out and marathon training. But I went anyway and it sucked. But I came out with the diagnostic that showed me my weak points and gave me a path forward.

I highly recommend giving it your best this April. And then digging in real good this summer to smash it this fall before it goes CBT.


----------



## GHermann

LyceeFruit PE said:


> @GHermann I believe its too late for you to reschedule. Your options are skip &amp; get a no show or go &amp; get exposure to the test.
> 
> I 100% understand how you feel right now. And I stand firmly in the "go take the test" camp. Why do you ask? Ive been in your shoes. More than once. I took the test 7 times. I did not study for 3 of those attempts. Like at all. Because of burn out and marathon training. But I went anyway and it sucked. But I came out with the diagnostic that showed me my weak points and gave me a path forward.
> 
> I highly recommend giving it your best this April. And then digging in real good this summer to smash it this fall before it goes CBT.


Well, I'm behind on something then. It's going CBT? That's a lot of pressure to succeed this time or the next if that's the case.

Good advice all around, though.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

GHermann said:


> Well, I'm behind on something then. It's going CBT? That's a lot of pressure to succeed this time or the next if that's the case.
> 
> Good advice all around, though.


2020 is the last time for pen &amp; paper.

If you dont succeed in 2020, its honestly NBD. But id personally not take it Q1/Q2 of 2021 until theres more info known about how the reference pdf is set up


----------



## Orchid PE

GHermann said:


> Well, I'm behind on something then. It's going CBT? That's a lot of pressure to succeed this time or the next if that's the case.
> 
> Good advice all around, though.


It's tentatively scheduled for 2021 to go to CBT. Haven't heard much from NCEES on anything yet.

I'd suggest sitting down and practice taking a full exam. You might do better than you think. 

How long have you been studying now?

Looking back through, this will be your 3rd time?


----------



## GHermann

Chattaneer PE said:


> It's tentatively scheduled for 2021 to go to CBT. Haven't heard much from NCEES on anything yet.
> 
> I'd suggest sitting down and practice taking a full exam. You might do better than you think.
> 
> How long have you been studying now?
> 
> Looking back through, this will be your 3rd time?




That's right. First time was my best attempt, second time was not as good because of real life issues, and this time around has been almost entirely bogged down with Work. I had anticipated time off after January that I never got.

I've been studying *seriously* for about two months prior because of that. The first time I had almost four to five months to study, and the second time three months.


----------



## daydreambeliever

If there's no way to get your money back or if you don't care either way I would definitely go take it. You've got 5 more weeks to study. Have you taken any prep classes? You could sign up for Zach's class for a month.


----------



## Orchid PE

GHermann said:


> That's right. First time was my best attempt, second time was not as good because of real life issues, and this time around has been almost entirely bogged down with Work. I had anticipated time off after January that I never got.
> 
> I've been studying *seriously* for about two months prior because of that. The first time I had almost four to five months to study, and the second time three months.


Well you have at least 7 months + whatever this time of studying. You know how the test is, so only you know how well you think you'll do. You don't have much to lose by not taking it, and since you already feel like you might not do well, it shouldn't be that much of a bummer if you don't pass this time. Give it a shot.


----------



## GHermann

daydreambeliever said:


> If there's no way to get your money back or if you don't care either way I would definitely go take it. You've got 5 more weeks to study. Have you taken any prep classes? You could sign up for Zach's class for a month.


I have, I'm taking School of PE right now. We start our first wave of cram classes (6-10PM every night excluding weekends until the test) on Monday.

I don't really learn that way very well. I have a free account with Zach's class, and may upgrade for the next attempt if this doesn't go well.



Chattaneer PE said:


> Well you have at least 7 months + whatever this time of studying. You know how the test is, so only you know how well you think you'll do. You don't have much to lose by not taking it, and since you already feel like you might not do well, it shouldn't be that much of a bummer if you don't pass this time. Give it a shot.


Okay, that makes sense. I'll just anticipate that happening.


----------



## Orchid PE

GHermann said:


> Okay, that makes sense. I'll just anticipate that happening.


Even if you just do better than last time, it will be a win.


----------



## GHermann

Chattaneer PE said:


> Even if you just do better than last time, it will be a win.


That's a good way of looking at it. I guess I don't have anything to lose but money.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

GHermann said:


> Hi, I've been working through School of PE, CramforthePE, and Complex Imaginary; and it's become pretty clear to me that I am not ready for this exam. I'm at the crossroads of either cancelling my test and attempting it again in October, or just going full steam ahead and trying it while making plans to take it again in October anyway. What would you do in my situation?


Go full steam ahead. At the very least, it will expose you to the actual difficulty of the exam and give you more practice taking the real thing.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Well @GHermann, you've got some more time get prepared.

April 2020 PE Exams have been canceled.


----------



## Orchid PE

So how was this past week? Did anyone work on anything or just take a week off from studying?

There are now 31 weeks until the exam, so what does your study schedule look like now?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

I think it's unreasonable &amp; unrealistic to pester people about studying when the exam is almost 8 months away at this point. Continuing full bore ahead with studying now is a fantastic way to get burnt out when burn out was likely close for so many people already. I think it's realistic  that this thread becomes quiet for the next 4-6 weeks (frankly I think it should be longer but I know some people are high-speed &amp; will study with 6mo to go)

That said, I am not suggesting a complete full stop on studying. Though I 100% support you if you decide a full stop is best for you. Keep tabs on all aspects of your well-being during this time.


----------



## Orchid PE

There's no "pestering" going on here. Just a guy caring about other EEs.

With that being said, now is a fantastic time to focus on areas you were feeling weak in when the exam was coming up. Setting aside an hour or two just one day a week will help you get more familiar with the topics you're not comfortable with and will prevent you from getting burnt out. And don't forget to stay refreshed on the topics you're good at. The longer you wait to get back into things, the more you'll have to refresh.

I know you all fell like there was at least 1 topic you wish you had more time to study, so now's your chance. I know I wasn't really aware of my knowledge gaps until time got closer to the exam, but by that point it was too late to really dig deep. You guys had the opportunity to push hard and find your gaps, and now the time to fill the gaps. Some people mentioned they wanted to practice more protection, so now is a good time to read through a protection book or two. You don't have to take an online course at the moment or even work any problems. Even skimming through books is still considered "studying." Reading books is a great way to not over do it and it can be done while in bed (a much better alternative to Netflix). Working tons of problems back-to-back can be exhausting, but reading can actually feel relaxing. 

I'm interested in hearing what you guys have planned out and how you plan on tackling this thing in October. October will be here before you know it (hell, a pregnancy is 40 weeks and ours is flying by!), and as the saying goes those who fail to plan, should plan to fail.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

With 31 weeks until the exam, I plan studying at least an hour on weekdays and at least 3-4 hours on weekends. Might be the right time to visit those thick books that I never opened.


----------



## akyip

With the clock having been reset, I went over the Engineer Pro Guides book in full the past 3 days. It is very detailed, and has some good practice questions. I'm glad I took the time to go over this book. I wish I started with this instead of the Graffeo book haha. I'm incorporating some notes from a few topics I did not go over as much, into my reference binder.

I also bought a download of both the Pro Guides Full Exam and the References Exam, though I haven't touched those yet. I plan to do so later this week.

There are also certain topics I want to go over in more detail, especially protection and rotating machines.


----------



## Orchid PE

akyip said:


> I went over the Engineer Pro Guides book in full the past 3 days. It is very detailed, and has some good practice questions. I'm glad I took the time to go over this book. I wish I started with this instead of the Graffeo book haha.


Dang you're on it! Yeah, Graffeo is good for a reference but the sample exam is meh.



akyip said:


> There are also certain topics I want to go over in more detail, especially protection and rotating machines.


The more I read it, the more I like Fundamentals of Power System Protection by Paithankar.


----------



## Orchid PE

BebeshKing said:


> With 31 weeks until the exam, I plan studying at least an hour on weekdays and at least 3-4 hours on weekends. Might be the right time to visit those thick books that I never opened.


That's a pretty committed schedule. Kudos to you! Definitely a great time to hit the big books lol


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> So how was this past week? Did anyone work on anything or just take a week off from studying?
> 
> There are now 31 weeks until the exam, so what does your study schedule look like now?


Continuing to participate in class on Tuesday nights with Zach, and working the homework problems on Thursdays. I've been reading/skimming articles on lunch breaks throughout the week as I can. I'm planning on reading/ skimming some books, but just took the weekend off of anything PE related. Thinking that I might try to do 1 practice exam a month until July/August. Overall, just trying to stay positive!


----------



## Orchid PE

What have you guys been up to? Finish any of the "big books" yet? lol


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What have you guys been up to? Finish any of the "big books" yet? lol


Been using the Standard handbook by Beaty and it is so useful in terms of qualitative questions that I'm encountering.


----------



## a4u2fear

i had a dream last night i was late to this exam; and then the exam turned into a poker tournament.  it was a weird one, including the fact i passed in 2018


----------



## Orchid PE

a4u2fear said:


> i had a dream last night i was late to this exam; and then the exam turned into a poker tournament.  it was a weird one, including the fact i passed in 2018


Hahah did you win any money???


----------



## DLD PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> What have you guys been up to? Finish any of the "big books" yet? lol


I've been reading Paithankar.  Not finished with it though. Good book so far!


----------



## Orchid PE

MEtoEE said:


> I've been reading Paithankar.  Not finished with it though. Good book so far!


I really liked it. I'm surprised it's not suggested more often.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

just realized I bought the _Study Guide_ to the Engineering Economic Analysis book instead of the actual book. I kept thinking people were crazy to suggest it, cause all it had was example problems that weren't terribly helpful... so I just ebayed a copy of the actual book.  maybe that's why i've been doing poorly on all the econ problems!


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

Chattaneer PE said:


> I really liked it. I'm surprised it's not suggested more often.


I like it too, just wish there were actual examples.


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

speakeelsy said:


> just realized I bought the _Study Guide_ to the Engineering Economic Analysis book instead of the actual book. I kept thinking people were crazy to suggest it, cause all it had was example problems that weren't terribly helpful... so I just ebayed a copy of the actual book.  maybe that's why i've been doing poorly on all the econ problems!


Get the Newman book for engineering economics. It's cheap and it is really easy to understand with simple examples.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Zach Stone said:


> Get the Newman book for engineering economics. It's cheap and it is really easy to understand with simple examples.


Got it! Apparently there is a study guide companion that is just solved problems, and apparently that's what amazon is calling the paperback version... No actual textbook included.


----------



## StefanRyan

Hello Everyone, new to the forum. Looking for a place for us Power PE test takers to share information and this looks to be the best spot. I have just begun my studying with Graffeo and the NCEES Practice test. Most of what is on the exam I will be learning from scratch as I mostly do embedded SW on the job. Good luck to everyone!


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

StefanRyan said:


> Hello Everyone, new to the forum. Looking for a place for us Power PE test takers to share information and this looks to be the best spot. I have just begun my studying with Graffeo and the NCEES Practice test. Most of what is on the exam I will be learning from scratch as I mostly do embedded SW on the job. Good luck to everyone!


Please read through the forums and find more/better practice problems and study guides.

Graffeo is outdated and not up to par with the current version of the test.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Registration for the October 2020 exam is open on NCEES website. Just registered! (again...) Hopefully we'll actually get to take this one.


----------



## JayD

Any good material for power electronics practice


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

JayD said:


> Any good material for power electronics practice


Our entire chapter on power electronics (Power Supplies and Converters) is included in the free trial of our online study program for the electrical power PE exam.

It includes all reference text, practice problems and all example videos. Feel free to sign up and use the material for as long as you like. Don't forget to print it out to take it with you to the exam (while you still can before it transitions to CBT).

*Electrical PE Review - Chapter 5.2 (NCEES® II.B.2.) Power Supplies and Converters:*


Introduction and What to Expect

Video Example - RMS Voltage, Average Value, Peak Voltage, and Peak to Peak Voltage

Video Example - Period, Cycles, and Frequency

Video Example - Leading vs Lagging and Phase Shifts

Video Example - Phase Shifts

Converting between degrees and radians

Calculating the phase shift in seconds

Video Example - Instantaneous Power, the Product of Instantaneous Voltage and Instantaneous Current

Video Example - Instantaneous Power

Calculating Real Power (P) and Reactive Power (Q)

Video Example - Graphing Sine functions

Video Example - The Ideal Diode

Thyristor and Silicon Controlled Rectifiers (SCR's)

Video Example - Positive Half Wave Diode Rectifier

Video Example - Negative Half Wave Diode Rectifier

Video Example - Full Wave Diode Bridge Rectifier

Video Example - Full Wave Diode Bridge Rectifier with A Smoothing Capacitor

Ripple Factor, r

Ripple Voltage and Sawtooth Wave Forms

DC Voltage (VDC), or Vavg

Video Example - Ripple for Sawtooth Wave Forms

Video Example - Three Phase Half Wave Diode Rectifier

Key Formulas

Electrical PE Review - Free Trial Sign Up


----------



## speakeelsy PE

How's everyone doing this round? What's your study plan look like?

I've been working through EngproGuide's review book the last 2 weeks, hopefully ill finish this weekend. I've seen a few things that are new, and different ways of working problems too! 

This time Im approaching studying a little different since Im not mostly learning things brand new this time around - planning on working more problems and possibly doing some deep dives into texts. 

My speed on solving problems has definitely suffered the last few months away, but that should improve soon!

Im excited for classes with Zach to start up again, and Im planning on taking a practice exam next weekend for the first time since March! 

Let's do this thing!


----------



## lturner

speakeelsy said:


> How's everyone doing this round? What's your study plan look like?
> 
> I've been working through EngproGuide's review book the last 2 weeks, hopefully ill finish this weekend. I've seen a few things that are new, and different ways of working problems too!
> 
> This time Im approaching studying a little different since Im not mostly learning things brand new this time around - planning on working more problems and possibly doing some deep dives into texts.
> 
> My speed on solving problems has definitely suffered the last few months away, but that should improve soon!
> 
> Im excited for classes with Zach to start up again, and Im planning on taking a practice exam next weekend for the first time since March!
> 
> Let's do this thing!


Are you me? I am doing  the same style you described and suffering from the same speed problems but I know that is mostly rust like you said.  Much much busier this time around at work with trips and site visits pushed from March-June to the fall but cautiously optimistic as long as they don't pull the plug again.

I did get more practice questions this time around so I don't see the same problems from the April exam study days out of fear of memorizing instead of understanding.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

lturner said:


> Are you me? I am doing  the same style you described and suffering from the same speed problems but I know that is mostly rust like you said.  Much much busier this time around at work with trips and site visits pushed from March-June to the fall but cautiously optimistic as long as they don't pull the plug again.
> 
> I did get more practice questions this time around so I don't see the same problems from the April exam study days out of fear of memorizing instead of understanding.


Twinsies! 

I am also much busier with work this time around, and the weather is also much nicer, so it stinks to be stick inside studying on evenings and weekends. 

What other practice problems did you get?


----------



## lturner

speakeelsy said:


> Twinsies!
> 
> I am also much busier with work this time around, and the weather is also much nicer, so it stinks to be stick inside studying on evenings and weekends.
> 
> What other practice problems did you get?


First time around studying I worked through:

-School of PE materials

-NCEES practice test

-Graffeo

-Power PE practice test

Luckily, at work I use Horowitz' power system relaying, code manuals(NEC, NESC, etc), Blackburn's protective relaying, and Wilids' machine textbook.  My equation binder/sheets came from the free version of Eng Pro Guide's cheat sheets that I marked all over.

Since I have supplemented with practice problems from:

-PPI(I find them to be more difficult but maybe too much detail for this exam)

-Zach Stone's practice test and technical guide (wish I had this from the get go, he does a great job).

And I bought the Eng Pro Guide full technical study guide and cheat sheets.  Much much better than the free version(flow charts for NEC are clutch) and have transferred my scribbles over LOL.  I think I also straight memorized what to do for certain topics(rectifier circuits and VSD especially) instead of learning so I am fixing that.

I feel like I have too many textbooks when I mainly reference Eng Pro guide maybe too much? I'll widdle it down over the next 12 weeks to have a milk crate's worth of stuff. PPI seems like overkill and SoPE does a good job but some of the practice problems seem like examples and not exam difficultly, great notes and text though. I find myself watching Zach Stone's videos more and more often. Love a good breakdown.

Sorry for the wall of text but what about yourself?


----------



## speakeelsy PE

lturner said:


> First time around studying I worked through:
> 
> -School of PE materials
> 
> -NCEES practice test
> 
> -Graffeo
> 
> -Power PE practice test
> 
> Luckily, at work I use Horowitz' power system relaying, code manuals(NEC, NESC, etc), Blackburn's protective relaying, and Wilids' machine textbook.  My equation binder/sheets came from the free version of Eng Pro Guide's cheat sheets that I marked all over.
> 
> Since I have supplemented with practice problems from:
> 
> -PPI(I find them to be more difficult but maybe too much detail for this exam)
> 
> -Zach Stone's practice test and technical guide (wish I had this from the get go, he does a great job).
> 
> And I bought the Eng Pro Guide full technical study guide and cheat sheets.  Much much better than the free version(flow charts for NEC are clutch) and have transferred my scribbles over LOL.  I think I also straight memorized what to do for certain topics(rectifier circuits and VSD especially) instead of learning so I am fixing that.
> 
> I feel like I have too many textbooks when I mainly reference Eng Pro guide maybe too much? I'll widdle it down over the next 12 weeks to have a milk crate's worth of stuff. PPI seems like overkill and SoPE does a good job but some of the practice problems seem like examples and not exam difficultly, great notes and text though. I find myself watching Zach Stone's videos more and more often. Love a good breakdown.
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but what about yourself?


Walls of text are great... Here's mine.

Last time I worked through Graffeo first. It was a good review since i've been out of school 8+ yrs.

Found Zach's course and signed up for it. Went through the entire course and filled up 3 notebooks with notes on all the videos and examples. I tabbed all those and reference them a lot. Ill probably skim through the course again over the next month and retake the quizzes. And it looks like Zach has added new stuff too!

I created a binder with all of the live class and formula sheets for Zach's class. I mostly use this binder for reference.

When i bought EngProGuides technical guide, i put it into its own binder, divided by subject. I need to go through the formula sheets though.

I also have Zach's exam, and all 3 of EPG's exams in their own 1/2 inch binders. I did all of these the last round, and plan to take them again. 

I bought the Cram book and all exams which are excellent and totally recommend since i dont see it in your list.  I only completed the first exam before the test was cancelled so i have the other 3 to take. Ill probably do one over a week instead of timed, and the other 2 as timed practice tests.

I went through 1 exam in Complex Imaginary... The exam was easier, but the code drill book was great practice. I plan to use these as practice problems.

Ive got a binder full of extra references, and plan to add more to it!

I read/skimmed a lot of Wildi last round, and i finally got a hardcopy of Blackburn in April, so im planning to skim through and tab it.

I went through several of the protection chapters and examples in the Glover book last round and plan to repeat that.

Also have the ncees practice test which i plan to take again too.

I do not have the PPI stuff like you do - i keep hearing mixed reviews about it. 

Overall, ive got 3 milk crates, but 2 are mostly extra stuff. Gonna roll a dolly into the exam!


----------



## Dothracki PE

I've been getting my money's worth of Zach Stone's courses. I have gone through both boot camps, finished 98% of the online course material, and will sit in on as many live classes as I can. Hopefully I am not putting all of my eggs in one basket, but he has a lot of positive feedback so his courses must do well in preparation for the exam.

I have a few other reference books including Rotating Machines (etc.) Wildi, NEC, NESC, NFPA 70, I have looked through and bookmarked as well as the Graffeo book.

I haven't done any practice exams just yet, but that will be my next step soon. I have two versions of the ncees practice exam as well as Zach Stone's.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Also I'm hesitant to buy a whole lot of references in the event that the October exam does get cancelled. I guess they will help with preparation but I just don't know.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Triple post? So not spam


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Dothracki said:


> Also I'm hesitant to buy a whole lot of references in the event that the October exam does get cancelled. I guess they will help with preparation but I just don't know.


Ohhhh if they cancel it again imma be SO mad. I dont care if we have to take it in scuba gear or whatever. Plus I still havent receive a refund on my hotel room.


----------



## Orchid PE

Is anyone taking the new power reference with them to the October exam?! Lol I skimmed through it the other day and it seems like a decent reference, albeit a tiny one.

I can only imagine the look on everyones' faces if someone walked into one of the previous exams with _only_ that book and a calculator


----------



## Dothracki PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Is anyone taking the new power reference with them to the October exam?! Lol I skimmed through it the other day and it seems like a decent reference, albeit a tiny one.
> 
> I can only imagine the look on everyones' faces if someone walked into one of the previous exams with _only_ that book and a calculator


I probably will print it out and put it in one of my binders, I don't know how much use I will get from it though.


----------



## lturner

speakeelsy said:


> Walls of text are great... Here's mine.
> 
> Last time I worked through Graffeo first. It was a good review since i've been out of school 8+ yrs.
> 
> Found Zach's course and signed up for it. Went through the entire course and filled up 3 notebooks with notes on all the videos and examples. I tabbed all those and reference them a lot. Ill probably skim through the course again over the next month and retake the quizzes. And it looks like Zach has added new stuff too!
> 
> I created a binder with all of the live class and formula sheets for Zach's class. I mostly use this binder for reference.
> 
> When i bought EngProGuides technical guide, i put it into its own binder, divided by subject. I need to go through the formula sheets though.
> 
> I also have Zach's exam, and all 3 of EPG's exams in their own 1/2 inch binders. I did all of these the last round, and plan to take them again.
> 
> I bought the Cram book and all exams which are excellent and totally recommend since i dont see it in your list.  I only completed the first exam before the test was cancelled so i have the other 3 to take. Ill probably do one over a week instead of timed, and the other 2 as timed practice tests.
> 
> I went through 1 exam in Complex Imaginary... The exam was easier, but the code drill book was great practice. I plan to use these as practice problems.
> 
> Ive got a binder full of extra references, and plan to add more to it!
> 
> I read/skimmed a lot of Wildi last round, and i finally got a hardcopy of Blackburn in April, so im planning to skim through and tab it.
> 
> I went through several of the protection chapters and examples in the Glover book last round and plan to repeat that.
> 
> Also have the ncees practice test which i plan to take again too.
> 
> I do not have the PPI stuff like you do - i keep hearing mixed reviews about it.
> 
> Overall, ive got 3 milk crates, but 2 are mostly extra stuff. Gonna roll a dolly into the exam!


That makes me feel like I need more! But it's apples and oranges I guess when it comes to whatever works lol.

To me PPI feels more like theory instead of application. Great reference but you can get lost in a hurry in the thick of deriving equations etc. 

I am going to look into Cram books in a few weeks. Great suggestion and just like the other poster said I am cautious to spend the money until I know it's happening this time.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

lturner said:


> That makes me feel like I need more! But it's apples and oranges I guess when it comes to whatever works lol.
> 
> To me PPI feels more like theory instead of application. Great reference but you can get lost in a hurry in the thick of deriving equations etc.
> 
> I am going to look into Cram books in a few weeks. Great suggestion and just like the other poster said I am cautious to spend the money until I know it's happening this time.


Everyone retains things differently so do what works for you!

I had most everything purchased for the april exam. I think the only things i've added are the 4th Cram exam, the actual engineering economics analysis, and the book of batteries which i had contemplated buying before (and i may have a _slight _book addiction) also thinking of adding nfpa 780.

@Chattaneer PE I did print the new handbook, and it's going in my book haul for sure. It's got some good info in a condensed format, and it might be the fastest way to find a formula.


----------



## Orchid PE

It's probably been reiterated enough times, but Graffeo is no good and the Cram exams are probably the closest thing you'll get to the real test. I swear, Mr. Flanagan must have access to the test bank or something.


----------



## Orchid PE

Does anyone know what they're doing about the NEC, NESC, and hazard code books when the test goes CBT? Will all of those be digital as well? Man, if I could've had a digital copy of the NEC to do a "ctrl+F" on that would have been awesome.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Does anyone know what they're doing about the NEC, NESC, and hazard code books when the test goes CBT? Will all of those be digital as well? Man, if I could've had a digital copy of the NEC to do a "ctrl+F" on that would have been awesome.


I believe they will have those in digital format. I have the PDF of NEC 2008, 2014, and 2017 for work and the find feature is great.


----------



## DLD PE

Dothracki said:


> I believe they will have those in digital format. I have the PDF of NEC 2008, 2014, and 2017 for work and the find feature is great.


That's going to put "Tom Henry's Key Word Index" out if business lol.


----------



## DLD PE

Also just received this from NCEES.  I'm going to wear a mask during all practice exams and study periods to get used to it.













To help ensure the health, safety, and welfare of examinees and proctoring teams, NCEES is implementing the following measures for the October 2020 exam administration.


No one may enter the exam facility if they have met any of the COVID-19 qualifications listed here.

Examinees and proctors will be required to wear face masks that cover the mouth and nose for the entire exam session. Face shields may not be used as a substitute for face masks but may be worn in addition to face masks. Face coverings must be removed for proper identification when instructed by a proctor. Proctors may visually inspect face coverings.

Examinees will be seated alone at a table properly spaced from other tables.

Examinees must practice social distancing outside the exam room before the exam starts, during breaks, and when the exam ends. Proctors will be asked to monitor examinees and ensure adequate space is being maintained.

Examinees will be allowed to have the following items in the exam room, but these items may not be placed on the desktop:
    •  Hand sanitizer and wipes
    •  Extra face coverings
    •  Disposable gloves

If you are unable or unwilling to follow these measures, please cancel your exam as soon as possible to help us seat as many examinees as possible during this administration. *You must cancel your exam before registration closes on August 20 at 3:00 p.m. EDT in order to receive a full refund of your exam registration fee.* Cancellations made after registration closes are not eligible for a refund.

Please note that all exam sites must comply with local capacity and social distancing requirements, which are subject to change at any time. Although every effort will be made to seat all registered examinees, any changes that require a further reduction in capacity may result in the cancellation of your exam and a full refund of your registration fee. NCEES is monitoring the situation and evaluating options to increase testing capacities. You will be notified if other testing options become available.

NCEES


----------



## Zach Stone P.E.

Chattaneer PE said:


> Does anyone know what they're doing about the NEC, NESC, and hazard code books when the test goes CBT? Will all of those be digital as well? Man, if I could've had a digital copy of the NEC to do a "ctrl+F" on that would have been awesome.


Yup, code books will be provided via PDF!


----------



## JayD

Zach Stone said:


> Yup, code books will be provided via PDF!


What's your opinion Zach , about CBT power exam, reference book by NCEES and level of difficulty f exam.

Do you believe its possible to pass the exam with that reference book?


----------



## JayD

Chattaneer PE said:


> Is anyone taking the new power reference with them to the October exam?! Lol I skimmed through it the other day and it seems like a decent reference, albeit a tiny one.
> 
> I can only imagine the look on everyones' faces if someone walked into one of the previous exams with _only_ that book and a calculator


What now? we are all walking into exam with that tiny book and calculator only,,,,


----------



## JayD

Zach Stone said:


> Our entire chapter on power electronics (Power Supplies and Converters) is included in the free trial of our online study program for the electrical power PE exam.
> 
> It includes all reference text, practice problems and all example videos. Feel free to sign up and use the material for as long as you like. Don't forget to print it out to take it with you to the exam (while you still can before it transitions to CBT).
> 
> *Electrical PE Review - Chapter 5.2 (NCEES® II.B.2.) Power Supplies and Converters:*
> 
> 
> Introduction and What to Expect
> 
> Video Example - RMS Voltage, Average Value, Peak Voltage, and Peak to Peak Voltage
> 
> Video Example - Period, Cycles, and Frequency
> 
> Video Example - Leading vs Lagging and Phase Shifts
> 
> Video Example - Phase Shifts
> 
> Converting between degrees and radians
> 
> Calculating the phase shift in seconds
> 
> Video Example - Instantaneous Power, the Product of Instantaneous Voltage and Instantaneous Current
> 
> Video Example - Instantaneous Power
> 
> Calculating Real Power (P) and Reactive Power (Q)
> 
> Video Example - Graphing Sine functions
> 
> Video Example - The Ideal Diode
> 
> Thyristor and Silicon Controlled Rectifiers (SCR's)
> 
> Video Example - Positive Half Wave Diode Rectifier
> 
> Video Example - Negative Half Wave Diode Rectifier
> 
> Video Example - Full Wave Diode Bridge Rectifier
> 
> Video Example - Full Wave Diode Bridge Rectifier with A Smoothing Capacitor
> 
> Ripple Factor, r
> 
> Ripple Voltage and Sawtooth Wave Forms
> 
> DC Voltage (VDC), or Vavg
> 
> Video Example - Ripple for Sawtooth Wave Forms
> 
> Video Example - Three Phase Half Wave Diode Rectifier
> 
> Key Formulas
> 
> Electrical PE Review - Free Trial Sign Up


Thanks Zach


----------



## JayD

Zach Stone said:


> Yup, code books will be provided via PDF!


Which edition it will be ?NFPA 70E??


----------



## Dothracki PE

JayD said:


> Which edition it will be ?NFPA 70E??


The code editions are the same as previous exam cycle. 2017 NEC (NFPA 70), 2017 NESC, and 2018 NFPA 70E.


----------



## Orchid PE

JayD said:


> What now? we are all walking into exam with that tiny book and calculator only,,,,


Sure, but the exam is different. I'm sure NCEES developed a lot of new questions for the question bank, and probably removed many that were normally answered using personal references. NCEES also said that they would provide additional information within the problems as necessary. I think they're going to do their best not to leave people high and dry on questions, even though some will have to be answered based solely on experience (as it should be).

I still don't envy the people taking the Power PE CBT Exam the first time around.


----------



## JayD

Chattaneer PE said:


> Sure, but the exam is different. I'm sure NCEES developed a lot of new questions for the question bank, and probably removed many that were normally answered using personal references. NCEES also said that they would provide additional information within the problems as necessary. I think they're going to do their best not to leave people high and dry on questions, even though some will have to be answered based solely on experience (as it should be).
> 
> I still don't envy the people taking the Power PE CBT Exam the first time around.


True.

Ain't you going for CBT? Do NCEES issue new sample exam book?


----------



## Dothracki PE

JayD said:


> True.
> 
> Ain't you going for CBT? Do NCEES issue new sample exam book?


I think the PE in @Chattaneer PE means he already passed. Unless he is looking to take it again on CBT for fun?  

They did issue a new sample exam, but it didn't change much from the previous iteration. Only a handful of questions just changed in format to show the changes in answer types possible since the exam is going to be more than just multiple choice (i.e. fill in the blank, select all that apply, etc.) also the specifications changed. See the following link for more information on this: https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388


----------



## Orchid PE

Has anyone tried taking sample exams using only the NCEES reference book? How did it go?


----------



## akyip

Chattaneer PE said:


> Has anyone tried taking sample exams using only the NCEES reference book? How did it go?


I'm starting to try to get used to taking practice exams with the NCEES reference exam. It feels inadequate...

IMO, it feels just barely adequate for the NCEES sample exam, and at this point I have so many concepts drilled into my head from previous (repetitive) practices of sample exams that it's more of experience (for lack of a better word) than the reference handbook that helps me get by.

For more difficult practice exams such as Cram for Exam volumes, Electrical PE Review, and Engineering Pro Guides, the NCEES reference handbook definitely feels insufficient. For example, I don't think I see anything on wattmeter measuring methods in the NCEES reference handbook...

That is my two cents. At this point, I'm starting to try to remember through second-nature certain concepts, understanding them better, and drilling them into my head, now that this exam is no longer open book except for the provided handbook...


----------



## Orchid PE

akyip said:


> I'm starting to try to get used to taking practice exams with the NCEES reference exam. It feels inadequate...
> 
> IMO, it feels just barely adequate for the NCEES sample exam, and at this point I have so many concepts drilled into my head from previous (repetitive) practices of sample exams that it's more of experience (for lack of a better word) than the reference handbook that helps me get by.
> 
> For more difficult practice exams such as Cram for Exam volumes, Electrical PE Review, and Engineering Pro Guides, the NCEES reference handbook definitely feels insufficient. For example, I don't think I see anything on wattmeter measuring methods in the NCEES reference handbook...
> 
> That is my two cents. At this point, I'm starting to try to remember through second-nature certain concepts, understanding them better, and drilling them into my head, now that this exam is no longer open book except for the provided handbook...


You'll probably do well on the exam. Just remember you and everyone else are in the same boat, so just try to do better than everyone else!


----------



## akyip

Chattaneer PE said:


> You'll probably do well on the exam. Just remember you and everyone else are in the same boat, so just try to do better than everyone else!


I hope so... I'm just worried that on the actual exam I'll run into something very conceptual which isn't covered by the reference handbook haha.

The earliest time slot I was able to register for actually taking exam is January as of right now...


----------



## Orchid PE

akyip said:


> I hope so... I'm just worried that on the actual exam I'll run into something very conceptual which isn't covered by the reference handbook haha.
> 
> The earliest time slot I was able to register for actually taking exam is January as of right now...


You're a brave person. Good luck!


----------



## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Has anyone tried taking sample exams using only the NCEES reference book? How did it go?


Took the NCEES practice exam this last weekend and tried using only the handbook.

Some of the formula forms are super weird, and I did end up having to look up a few things elsewhere because they just aren't in the handbook.

Things that stood out to be missing to me:

Wattmeters, ampmeters, and voltmeters -- which are involved in several problems

mho circles

symmetrical component / fault analysis - are they expecting us to derive the formulas for like a 1 phase to ground fault via the tiny diagrams on p66? cause that's a LOT - i mean i could do it with practice, but I like using different diagrams, and that's SO much to memorize for all the different fault types

it's slim on fault analysis 

I had a hard time with a parallel transformer problem using just the formulas provided in the handbook because they weren't totally twins and the handbook doesn't have additional information on that type of problem. I ended up referencing my personal notes on the subject.


----------



## akyip

speakeelsy said:


> Took the NCEES practice exam this last weekend and tried using only the handbook.
> 
> Some of the formula forms are super weird, and I did end up having to look up a few things elsewhere because they just aren't in the handbook.
> 
> Things that stood out to be missing to me:
> 
> Wattmeters, ampmeters, and voltmeters -- which are involved in several problems
> 
> mho circles
> 
> symmetrical component / fault analysis - are they expecting us to derive the formulas for like a 1 phase to ground fault via the tiny diagrams on p66? cause that's a LOT - i mean i could do it with practice, but I like using different diagrams, and that's SO much to memorize for all the different fault types
> 
> it's slim on fault analysis
> 
> I had a hard time with a parallel transformer problem using just the formulas provided in the handbook because they weren't totally twins and the handbook doesn't have additional information on that type of problem. I ended up referencing my personal notes on the subject.


For the parallel transformer problem, is it the one where you are given two transformers' rated KVA and percent/p.u. impedances and you have to solve for the max possible load without overloading either transformer?

If so, I highly recommend using Zach Stone's/Electrical PE Review's limiting transformer method for parallel transformers. IMO that's the easiest, most understandable, and simplest to remember method for solving such parallel transformer questions.


----------



## Orchid PE

Hopefully there will be an update to the reference book with more protection and symmetrical components. 

On the bright side, it should be much easier to answer the codes questions with the code books being provided digitally. Code questions take up a huge portion of the exam, and I know that can give people trouble. There also seems to be a nice section on economics which will come in handy.

I'm not sure about the list of integrals and derivatives. The reference book could probably do without those sections.


----------



## speakeelsy PE

akyip said:


> For the parallel transformer problem, is it the one where you are given two transformers' rated KVA and percent/p.u. impedances and you have to solve for the max possible load without overloading either transformer?
> 
> If so, I highly recommend using Zach Stone's/Electrical PE Review's limiting transformer method for parallel transformers. IMO that's the easiest, most understandable, and simplest to remember method for solving such parallel transformer questions.


That's it! 125 in the morning session in my 2017 version, and this is exactly what I did to solve it! Zach's class is the best! However, as we are only allowed the handbook for the CBT i was attempting the practice exam with no additional references. I need to rewatch the videos and work on it because i could not complete this problem with just the handbook formulas. 

Overall it was interesting to see that i made almost the same score as i did last February when I took it. Missed about half of the same questions, and half new questions. But i also completed it on time instead of having 7 left over, and i haven't put as much time into studying this time around. So im counting it as a major improvement. 



Chattaneer PE said:


> Hopefully there will be an update to the reference book with more protection and symmetrical components.
> 
> On the bright side, it should be much easier to answer the codes questions with the code books being provided digitally. Code questions take up a huge portion of the exam, and I know that can give people trouble. There also seems to be a nice section on economics which will come in handy.
> 
> I'm not sure about the list of integrals and derivatives. The reference book could probably do without those sections.


I got really good at using the code book for the April section, and i have mine tabbed very well, plus notes in the margins. Im worried about having to use the digital code books.


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## Orchid PE

speakeelsy said:


> I got really good at using the code book for the April section, and i have mine tabbed very well, plus notes in the margins. Im worried about having to use the digital code books.


Have you been able to do any practice with PDF versions of the codes?


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## speakeelsy PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Have you been able to do any practice with PDF versions of the codes?


Not yet. The online version isnt searchable, and i'd hate to buy it again. I wish it was like dvds used to be: buy the dvd, get a digital copy free. 

Might have to see about buying the pdf through work.


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## akyip

So I just ordered the PPI 2 Pass practice exams (3rd edition... that was the latest edition I could find).

With all the practicing I've done on other practice exams... there are still some questions in the PPI exams that I have no idea how to answer (at least from a quick glance).

Man, I feel like the wide range of topics in the PE Power exam will probably get to me the most. And I feel that the provided reference handbook is definitely not sufficient.

I haven't actually done the PPI 2 Pass practice exams yet... currently working on other practice exams (just finished Complex Imaginary again). I will get to them though...


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## LyceeFruit PE

akyip said:


> So I just ordered the PPI 2 Pass practice exams (3rd edition... that was the latest edition I could find).
> 
> With all the practicing I've done on other practice exams... there are still some questions in the PPI exams that I have no idea how to answer (at least from a quick glance).
> 
> Man, I feel like the wide range of topics in the PE Power exam will probably get to me the most. And I feel that the provided reference handbook is definitely not sufficient.
> 
> I haven't actually done the PPI 2 Pass practice exams yet... currently working on other practice exams (just finished Complex Imaginary again). I will get to them though...


do you mind posting one of the questions you don't know how to answer? i'm curious to see if the PPI2Pass exam has finally become useful


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## speakeelsy PE

So how is everyone's studying going?

Work has been a madhouse this week for me, and I took it easy this weekend, only working Zach's end of class test. Though I might do a course quiz or two this afternoon if I get the chance.

I think i'm going into burnout mode after a full year of this, so I'm hoping to get back in the zone soon. Been consistently making 60/80s on practice exams so hoping that's good enough to get that pass!


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## Sparky Bill PE

speakeelsy said:


> So how is everyone's studying going?
> 
> Work has been a madhouse this week for me, and I took it easy this weekend, only working Zach's end of class test. Though I might do a course quiz or two this afternoon if I get the chance.
> 
> I think i'm going into burnout mode after a full year of this, so I'm hoping to get back in the zone soon. Been consistently making 60/80s on practice exams so hoping that's good enough to get that pass!


Burned out is exactly how I feel. Hard to believe we are the first group of PE's ever to literally have to study over a year to get to take the test 1 time. I started studying after the October 2019 test b/c my first time i COULD take it was April 2020. Luckily I was able to get in a December exam, but still, that's damn 14 months almost solid and not get to take the damn exam once. 

I can't stand hearing PE stories at work "Man I worked SO HARD for that test man. I mean I studied 4 WEEKS STRAIGHT, AND I MEAN HARD" lolololol


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## Dothracki PE

SparkyBill said:


> Burned out is exactly how I feel. Hard to believe we are the first group of PE's ever to literally have to study over a year to get to take the test 1 time. I started studying after the October 2019 test b/c my first time i COULD take it was April 2020. Luckily I was able to get in a December exam, but still, that's damn 14 months almost solid and not get to take the damn exam once.
> 
> I can't stand hearing PE stories at work "Man I worked SO HARD for that test man. I mean I studied 4 WEEKS STRAIGHT, AND I MEAN HARD" lolololol


I always felt like I was dumb for intentionally studying for over a year for a few hours each week when I heard most people only took a few months to prep. I went through Zach Stone's free trial on demand class sections and read several of the typical reference books during October 2019-April 2020 and then signed up for the full class at the end of April 2020 finishing up the on demand classes I couldn't access during the trial. Then I just reviewed my notes and a few videos a head of time in preparation for the live classes each week.


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## Sparky Bill PE

Dothracki said:


> I always felt like I was dumb for intentionally studying for over a year for a few hours each week when I heard most people only took a few months to prep. I went through Zach Stone's free trial on demand class sections and read several of the typical reference books during October 2019-April 2020 and then signed up for the full class at the end of April 2020 finishing up the on demand classes I couldn't access during the trial. Then I just reviewed my notes and a few videos a head of time in preparation for the live classes each week.


So you haven't taken it yet either, the CBT will be your first time?


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## Dothracki PE

SparkyBill said:


> So you haven't taken it yet either, the CBT will be your first time?


Yes, I will be a guinea pig as a new test taker. I was planning on taking the October 2020 exam though not the April 2020 exam.


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## Sparky Bill PE

Dothracki said:


> Yes, I will be a guinea pig as a new test taker. I was planning on taking the October 2020 exam though not the April 2020 exam.


Oh i see what you mean, yeah i studied 5.5 months for April 2020, then again for October 2020 LOL


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## Zach Stone P.E.

Keep your head up everyone! Don't forget to take a break when you need to.

I highly recommend taking advantage of the extra month or two you have before your CBT exam date compared to the October exam date to deep dive on areas you are most uncomfortable with.


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## akyip

I just did the PPI practice exams... And sadly even with much practice from other practice sets (e.g. Cram for Exam, Electrical PE Review, Eng Pro Guides, Complex Imaginary, Spin-Up), there were still some questions &amp; topics in the PPI exam that I just was not familiar or rusty with.

The earliest I can take the CBT exam is January 2021...


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