# LED Bulbs



## Capt Worley PE (May 25, 2012)

Anyone tried these yet?

It doesn't look like there is a good 100W equivalent bulb yet, and after the CFL debacle, I'd be leery of such claims from the manufacturer anyway.


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## Chucktown PE (May 25, 2012)

Well timed topic Cap'n. I was wondering about this just this past week. At Costco this week I noticed they had 75 watt equivalents that would fit in our recessed canned lights in our house. They use about 13 watts of power. They sold for $28.99 and the utility (SCE&amp;G where I live) was offering an instant $10 rebate. I pay $.123 per kw-hr. So assuming I would use the light 4 hours a day, the payback period is a little under two years.


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## snickerd3 (May 25, 2012)

I have bought LED night light sized light bulbs...yeah not so happy with them. It is very directional...as in the light only shines down/up depending on orientation of bulb...it doesn't radiate out like incandecent.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 25, 2012)

Also, the LED would last for 10,000 hour with continuous power. Under normal circumstances (i.e., turning the light on and off several times a day), the longevity plummets. I'm not sure if anyone has completed real world MTBF data for LED bulbs yet.

Snick nailed it though...the real problem with LEDs is directional light. They haven't really figured out a good lens to get good coverage out of an LED bulb yet. Most of them get around this by adding more LEDs pointing in different directions. That reduces the efficiency of the bulb (sucking more power for not much more usable light) and reduces the life of the LEDs due to added heat.


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## Supe (May 26, 2012)

Are any of the LED's that are direct replacements able to work with a dimmer switch? My understanding is that they don't, and that rules them out for me.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 29, 2012)

So they are basically a fail like the CFL lights, but more expensive.

Grand.

I love my government.


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## snickerd3 (May 29, 2012)

^yep...unless you have a light that will stay on for extended epriods of time and don't care how wide the band of light emitted is.


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## OSUguy98 (May 29, 2012)

an LED bulb like this solves most of your directional issues... we have a couple nightlight bulbs that are decent enough for what they do... we have 3 or 4 LED bulbs similar to the one I linked, we've had one fail, can't remember which fixture it was in.... I don't have many complaints, except cost


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## Capt Worley PE (May 29, 2012)

OSUguy98 said:


> an LED bulb like this solves most of your directional issues...


But not the intensity issues. I need a 100W equivalent.


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## goodal (May 29, 2012)

$25 for one freakin bulb? insane.


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## Master slacker (May 29, 2012)

^^^ win.


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## Dleg (May 30, 2012)

You guys are spoiled by cheap power. Out here, we're paying in the $0.40 per kWh range (diesel-fired power plant). At those prices, CFLs save you real money. I could care less about the drawbacks - I used to carelessly use 2500 kWh per month when power was cheap. I switched over to CFLs and got my usage down to around 2000. Reduced the airconditioning use to get it down to ~1600. Got rid of the hot water heater and got it down to ~1300. Most recently, switched our main TV to an LED flat screen (from a CRT rear projection) and got down to ~1000 kWh (yes, I am currently paying around $400 a month just for power, nevermind water...). And I will buy the LED lights as my CFLs fail - it just makes good economic sense. (and by the way, some of the CFLs have been in use since I first bought them in 2005).

Some day, your power rates are going to go up, too...


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## snickerd3 (May 30, 2012)

until they do they will likely break before hitting the break in point on some things...I still have the same plain vanilla light bulb one of my lamps that I used in college and come monday it will be 10 yrs on the job so the bulb is about 12 yr old...not bad for &lt;$1


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## mudpuppy (May 30, 2012)

2500 kWh/mo? That's crazy! I start to get agitated when I get over 1000.


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## Dleg (May 30, 2012)

What can I say, it's hot and humid here, and I can't live like that. But still, 2500 down to 1000 , and still using the aircon - not too shabby.


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## Chucktown PE (May 31, 2012)

During June, July, August, and September we go from using about 1200 kw-hrs per month to 2800 kw-hrs per month. That's with the thermostats set on 75. It takes a lot to cool a house in a tropical or a subtropical environment.


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## Master slacker (May 31, 2012)

Now I'm curious on our useage per month. We're basically in a spa (hot / humid) environment, living in a house with no insulation in the walls.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 31, 2012)

All I know is that last year was the hottest summer on record for the area, and the AC literally did not turn off at all May-August and half of September. Four months of $400 power bills are not a happy thing.


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## goodal (May 31, 2012)

I've got a 2000ft earth berm, garage, shop and small pool in Kentucky. Our bill on the low side is $150 and usually maxes out in August at $280. Last year went to $350. This year looks to be even worse. I've got a portable AC upstairs for the boys and don't usually have to start using it until June. It has already been running the entire month of May.


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## snickerd3 (May 31, 2012)

I think the highest bill we have paid here is about $275-$290 during the first summer we had the house when we thought using the whole house fan in the attic would save money vs running the ac....big mistake. Get took the attic fan out (more for the sake of my allergies) and the power bills droped dramatically. During the summer We can keep the main level of the house around 78 with the AC, run ceiling rans and have the pool filter on for 8-10 hrs a day and the power bills have been floating around $180-$195.


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## Supe (May 31, 2012)

Even with my upstairs and downstairs central air units blasting perpetually, I had mostly $2XX electric bills last summer.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 31, 2012)

With keeping the AC off as long as I can stand it (had to turn it on when we had 5 straight 90+ degree days), I've managed to keep my power bill under $75 for the last 2 months.


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## knight1fox3 (May 31, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> I have bought LED night light sized light bulbs...yeah not so happy with them. It is very directional...as in the light only shines down/up depending on orientation of bulb...it doesn't radiate out like incandecent.


LOL! I literally just did the same thing since as I had an incandescent go out and had been waiting to try the new LED version. Seems much more dim and like you mentioned, very directional. Oh well. I do like using the CFL equivalents in most of the other fixtures and the outside lights. However in my finished basement, the drop ceiling uses recessed lighting and 60W floodlights. Nothing seems to light that up quite as well as an incandescent.

We also have landscape lighting that runs on a 12V circuit. The bulbs for that are a bayonet style similar to a typical vehicle brake light. Last year in addition to the Xmas lights we put out, I thought it would be cool to change out all the incandescent bulbs with alternating red and green bulbs. Didn't have any luck finding incandescents to do this but did find this website which sold an LED version of the same bayonet style bulb. They actually worked really nice and gave off the same amount of light only in red and green. Looked pretty slick against the snow for the holidays.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 31, 2012)

We really haven't had to deal with summers yet with the new house (we moved in early August), but here's our electricity usage. We're only charged $0.11 per KWH so there's no real "savings" by going LED or CFL.

View attachment 5135


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## cdcengineer (May 31, 2012)

Not sure they make sense in a residential application yet. They are great in commercial settings where maintenance is difficult and/or costly (think parking lot lighting). They also work best when left on continuously as other's have mentioned.

Led's are typically native dimming so compared with dimmable CFL's they are the way to go IMO.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 31, 2012)

Supe said:


> Even with my upstairs and downstairs central air units blasting perpetually, I had mostly $2XX electric bills last summer.


You have to remember that my house was built in the 50s, so I'm guessing attic insulation is R3 and wall insulation is R0.


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## Supe (May 31, 2012)

Based on the degree of sound transmission and temperature of my attic, I don't think my 11 year old POS is much better...


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## cdcengineer (Jun 1, 2012)

When we remodeled the kitchen, I noticed our house (with it's 2x4 exterior walls) had blown in insulation. Some product they used in the 70's when the house was built. The stuff was cracked and dried out and compressing on itself and leaving huge voids. No wonder the house is cold in winter.

Halogen lights at least help heat the house. LED's not so much


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 1, 2012)

Don't LEDs run on DC? If so, isn't the bulk of the cost in the LED bulb the rectifier and the cooling for said rectifier. If so, I wonder if it would be possible to modify a couple of lighting circuits with a central rectifier attached to our breaker box?


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 1, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> All I know is that last year was the hottest summer on record for the area, and the AC literally did not turn off at all May-August and half of September. Four months of $400 power bills are not a happy thing.


I know we get our power from the same utility so I assume our rates are the same. Our house is about 8 years old and I think it's fairly well insulated. The AC units are original so I'll probably end up having to replace those soon. Our bill crept up to $400 once in either July or August but usually it's about $370 during the summer and $200 in the winter. That includes the natural gas though.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 1, 2012)

Seriously replacing 8 yrold ac unit?? or are they window units? Our outdoor part of the ac unit is probably pushing 20 yrs Had to replace the coils on the inside part of it a couple years ago.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 1, 2012)

The only reason I say replacement is on the upstairs unit, it seems like it's way undersized.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah, Chuck, mine includes gas and the winter bills are about the same.



snickerd3 said:


> Seriously replacing 8 yrold ac unit?? or are they window units? Our outdoor part of the ac unit is probably pushing 20 yrs Had to replace the coils on the inside part of it a couple years ago.


Our outdoor unit is 21, and the inside coils and fan motor were replaced a couple years back. I hate the thought of replacing when a repair will do, but I'm sure a new unit would be more efficient. Probably not nough to produce an ROI for a decade or so though, so I ain't wild bout the idea.

Mom and dad have an AC that was installed back in 1964 and it STILL runs like a champ. All original parts, too.


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## mudpuppy (Jun 1, 2012)

You may be able to get rebates and/or tax deductions to make it more worthwhile. However, my mottos are: they don't make things like they used to, and if it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## goodal (Jun 1, 2012)

I posted a while back about replacing our dryer because the old one took two 70 min cycles to dry anything. Well we did last October and I'm proud to say electric bill dropped 20-30$ a month from the previous year.

:th_rockon: :th_rockon: :th_rockon:


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## wilheldp_PE (Jun 1, 2012)

I hope you didn't buy an Electrolux (Frigidaire, Kenmore, GE).


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2012)

I thought it wasn't the kilowatts but the lumens that made for a good bulb ....

Just sayin' ....


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## Dleg (Mar 29, 2015)

Wanted to bump this thread because the prices have come down so much now. I just put in a major order for LED bulbs to replace all the CFLs in my house (using the EB amazon link, or so I think!). Prices on the Philips 60 watt bulbs are down in the $10 to $15 range, and reading the reviews on Amazon, the latest versions seem to be very well received, and superior to CFLs. They can take dimmers, too.

I ordered a bunch of the Philips 60 watt flat type bulbs (shaped like a lolypop - weird, but excelletn reviews), and also a bunch of the ordinary-shaped Cree bulbs to try on different fixtures, in addition to some of the clear, sparkle-type Philips 40 watt replacements for fancy fixtures and ceiling fans. I will update once I get a chance to try them out, and see if there's a noticable decrease on my electric bill (probably minor since I'm fully CFL anyway).

Just curious if anyone else has moved to LEDs yet, now that they're considerably cheaper than they were 3 years ago.


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## wilheldp_PE (Mar 29, 2015)

I found a deal on some LED bulbs on Woot a few months ago. I ended up buying 18 of them (mix of 40 and 60 watt equivalent, non-dimmable) for an average of ~$5/bulb. They provide excellent light, color, and distribution especially for the cost and power consumption. There are only 2 issues I have with them....

1. There is a very slight delay between when you flip the switch and the lights turn on. It's only about a half a second while the filter capacitors in the AC/DC converter charge up, but it is noticeable.

2. I put four of the bulbs in 2 fully enclosed fixtures. One of them is in my front entryway, which is hardly used, but the other is in my office which I use quite a bit. When I was in my office for a couple hours one day, I noticed that the bulbs were flickering quite a bit and I suspect that it was caused by overheating of the bulb due to the enclosed fixture. Either the Amazon listing or the box (can't remember which) stated that these bulbs were approved for enclosed fixtures, but the other said they weren't. It's no big deal, but still kind of annoying to get conflicting information.

Philips and Cree make the best bulbs, from what I have read, but both companies are starting to make cheaper bulbs to meet the price point that the industry is driving towards (&lt;=$5/bulb). To get to that point, they are making cheaper/less reliable DC converters, which in turn, reduces the warranty of the bulb. The LED emitters will all last 20k-50k hours...the limiting factor is the capacitors and other components in the DC converter. The cheaper the heat sinking and capacitors they put in the bulb, the less usable hours you will get out of the bulb. I have also heard that the flat Philips bulb are good in light quality and durability, but they have a noticeable line in the light dispersion pattern (understandable given the design, but limiting on the number of uses for the bulb).


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## knight1fox3 (Mar 29, 2015)

Also started replacing my 60W floods in the basement with LEDs one by one. Light output is excellent and on-time is barely noticeable. Tried one of the CREE bulb type 60W in some of our hanging fixtures and they seem equivalent, though a bit more expensive. Likely worth it in the long run though.


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## roadwreck (Mar 30, 2015)

As bulbs go out in our house I've been replacing them with LED bulbs. As we renovate rooms I'm also updating outdated fixtures and replacing them with LED fixtures. This weekend I replaced all the lights in our living room with these.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-Gold-Series-6-in-White-and-Chrome-LED-Recessed-Light-Kit-65-Watt-Equivalent-Dimmable-Adjustable-Directional-WD6L27D1B/205797499?N=5yc1vZ1z115g2Z1z0ykru

The existing bulbs were all CFL's, so I won't be saving much on power consumption, but the shroud in the existing can's were terrible to look at so I had to updated them anyway. I also hated that the CFL's took a while to get up to full brightness so I was more than happy to swap them out. These worked perfectly and I also installed a dimmer switch which is nice.


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