# taking a chance on 1 grad school?



## BG7 (Sep 17, 2010)

So a few months ago I got 2 job offers, so I accepted one and turned down the other. However, my employment then ended unexpectedly in a couple months. A few days ago I called the company whose offer I had rejected to see if they had any current openings. To my surprise, they didn't seem angry at me, and yesterday, they told me that they should have an opening for me but will let me know in 2 weeks, after the hiring manager returns from a business trip. Since getting an MS is a job requirement, I have to eventually get it while working as well.

Last year when I applied for grad schools in ME/AE, I only applied to UCLA since I missed the deadlines for other schools. This company plans on having me work part-time so that I have more time for school. The main problem is that I want to do the MS with thesis, but the only school nearby that offers that is UCLA. My main area of interest is CFD, but UCLA only has 3 profs in that area, and one of them doesn't take MS students, leaving 2 available. Those other 2 sometimes take MS students, but won't anytime soon (at least for an RA-ship. Maybe I should ask if they will take me on for a thesis, but un-funded?). I really don't want to just take the coursework-only MS since I may decide to go for the phD

I heard one option would be to take a leave of absence from work to do my thesis. But since only 2 profs do research I'm interested in, is taking the job and going to UCLA worth gambling on? Or should I turn down this job again, so I can find another MS program (I was considering applying to grad schools for spring and fall '11 programs before I heard this company had openings) where I can more easily find research in my area of interest? The hiring manager told me they might also have internships, so that might be a better option..


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## benbo (Sep 17, 2010)

I'd take the job, since from what I hear they aren't that easy to come by these days. You can always go to grad school, and you can worry about where and how later. Plus, if you can get your boss to pay for it, that's a lot less debt (unless you have another way to pay for it).


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## navyasw02 (Sep 17, 2010)

BG7 said:


> So a few months ago I got 2 job offers, so I accepted one and turned down the other. However, my employment then ended unexpectedly in a couple months. A few days ago I called the company whose offer I had rejected to see if they had any current openings. To my surprise, they didn't seem angry at me, and yesterday, they told me that they should have an opening for me but will let me know in 2 weeks, after the hiring manager returns from a business trip. Since getting an MS is a job requirement, I have to eventually get it while working as well.
> Last year when I applied for grad schools in ME/AE, I only applied to UCLA since I missed the deadlines for other schools. This company plans on having me work part-time so that I have more time for school. The main problem is that I want to do the MS with thesis, but the only school nearby that offers that is UCLA. My main area of interest is CFD, but UCLA only has 3 profs in that area, and one of them doesn't take MS students, leaving 2 available. Those other 2 sometimes take MS students, but won't anytime soon (at least for an RA-ship. Maybe I should ask if they will take me on for a thesis, but un-funded?). I really don't want to just take the coursework-only MS since I may decide to go for the phD
> 
> I heard one option would be to take a leave of absence from work to do my thesis. But since only 2 profs do research I'm interested in, is taking the job and going to UCLA worth gambling on? Or should I turn down this job again, so I can find another MS program (I was considering applying to grad schools for spring and fall '11 programs before I heard this company had openings) where I can more easily find research in my area of interest? The hiring manager told me they might also have internships, so that might be a better option..



What's your reasoning for doing a MS with a thesis? I have a thesis requirement for my MS and it's just a pain in the ass. There wasnt enough funding to do any of the topics I wanted to do so I settled on a topic and now I just do what my thesis advisor wants. It rubs the lotion on its skin...


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## BG7 (Sep 17, 2010)

benbo said:


> I'd take the job, since from what I hear they aren't that easy to come by these days. You can always go to grad school, and you can worry about where and how later. Plus, if you can get your boss to pay for it, that's a lot less debt (unless you have another way to pay for it).


well after having done a few internships in the past, I can easily say that I'd like to do at least some research in my career. Thats why getting my MS with thesis or phD is more important than this job. If I take this job, theres a chance that the company will pay for the coursework, but not the thesis part



navyasw02 said:


> BG7 said:
> 
> 
> > So a few months ago I got 2 job offers, so I accepted one and turned down the other. However, my employment then ended unexpectedly in a couple months. A few days ago I called the company whose offer I had rejected to see if they had any current openings. To my surprise, they didn't seem angry at me, and yesterday, they told me that they should have an opening for me but will let me know in 2 weeks, after the hiring manager returns from a business trip. Since getting an MS is a job requirement, I have to eventually get it while working as well.
> ...


I should've mentioned this earlier, but my undergrad was in math and physics, not AE. But after taking some AE classes, I've decided that I would like to do grad school in AE, but I don't know yet if I want the phD, so thats why I think doing the MS with thesis is the best choice.


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## benbo (Sep 17, 2010)

> Thats why getting my MS with thesis or phD is more important than this job.


It sort of sounds like your mind is made up. If you want a career in industry I think it's important to work, as soon and as much as you can after graduating. If you are looking to be an academic, then forget about the work. A good job is generally a lot different than an internship. Of course, you don't even know yet if you've got the job or not, so that may play some part.

Regardless, I don't see the point of doing nothing while you apply to more schools. Especially since your degree is in another field. I'm assuming you have to take some coursework. Take the job, take a couple courses in AE, apply elsewhere to see what you find, quit if a better offer comes up - schoolwise or elsewhere.

Doesn't UCLA start next week? They give you this long to decide if you want to attend or not, and to select the classes you want to take?

Edit: A lot depends on whether you actually get the job. If you don't get the job, and you are sure you want to go somewhere other than UCLA, then it probably might be a good idea to wait, and maybe just take a class or two if you are interested.


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## BG7 (Sep 17, 2010)

benbo said:


> > Thats why getting my MS with thesis or phD is more important than this job.
> 
> 
> It sort of sounds like your mind is made up. If you want a career in industry I think it's important to work, as soon and as much as you can after graduating. If you are looking to be an academic, then forget about the work. A good job is generally a lot different than an internship. Of course, you don't even know yet if you've got the job or not, so that may play some part.
> ...


well also I should've mentioned that the hiring manager works in the flight software dept, whereas my main research area of interest right now is CFD. The policy is such that the tuition reimbursement is denied if I leave within 1 year. So I can't just take a couple classes in AE at UCLA but not finish the MS and still expect to get my tuition reimbursed.

yes, ucla starts next week. Well, since the guy doesn't come back until 2 weeks, and if he gives me an offer by, say October, then I could always start at UCLA starting with the winter quarter. He told me its unlikely that I'll get my fall classes reimbursed if I start in the fall

also, since alot of grad schools have deadlines for Oct 1st for spring '11 admissions, and since I'm in a mode of uncertainty right now, its unlikely that I start grad school somewhere else than ucla before fall '11


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## benbo (Sep 17, 2010)

BG7 said:


> benbo said:
> 
> 
> > > Thats why getting my MS with thesis or phD is more important than this job.
> ...


Ok. I see the situation now. I might just wait until Winter quarter too and apply a few other places in the meantime. School is not cheap.


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## BG7 (Sep 17, 2010)

benbo said:


> BG7 said:
> 
> 
> > benbo said:
> ...


so you're saying that I probably shouldn't take this job then? Just ask if he has an internship, probably in the summer, for me instead?

What do you think the odds are of those 2 CFD profs at UCLA that can advise me for a thesis project, but not provide funding for it? If they can let me do a research project for them, even if unfunded, its still not a bad deal to go to UCLA as my company can cover the coursework costs, right ? I just have to stay with them 1 more year after I complete the MS


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## benbo (Sep 17, 2010)

BG7 said:


> so you're saying that I probably shouldn't take this job then? Just ask if he has an internship, probably in the summer, for me instead?
> What do you think the odds are of those 2 CFD profs at UCLA that can advise me for a thesis project, but not provide funding for it? If they can let me do a research project for them, even if unfunded, its still not a bad deal to go to UCLA as my company can cover the coursework costs, right ? I just have to stay with them 1 more year after I complete the MS


I'm afraid a lot of these questions are beyond my ability to answer. If it were me, I'd probably wait to see what kind of job they offered you, what they'll pay for at the school, etc. Then I'd talk to the profs at the school about exactly what they can do for you. I'm not really up on what the ramifications of funding/non funding would be. Hopefully somebody here or elsewhere can answer those questions.

I'm just saying that I probably wouldn't worry about missing this quarter of school. I forgot the UCs are on a quarter system, that's not a long time.

I think UCLA is a fairly well regarded school. You might also check out some of the other local schools to see what they might have to offer. But from my perspective the real problem is you still need more information to make a decision.


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## BG7 (Sep 17, 2010)

benbo said:


> BG7 said:
> 
> 
> > so you're saying that I probably shouldn't take this job then? Just ask if he has an internship, probably in the summer, for me instead?
> ...


Well when they gave me the original offer a few months back, the pay was $28/hr, so I'd imagine it'd be similar this time. The company only reimburses $5000 per calendar year, whereas tuition is $4000/quarter at ucla.

USC doesn't fund the thesis for MS students, and they also only have a couple profs in CFD.

I suppose I could work there for a year, complete or almost complete the coursework-only MS at ucla, but still apply for other grad programs for a phD or MS thesis?


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## HerrKaLeun (Sep 18, 2010)

If you are serious about getting a job, you should offer them to work full time or nearly full time and do the graduate school part-time. What really helps you in the company to make a career is to get important work done. the MS or PhD title is then just another bonus.

if you are only part time worker you won't be able to take on important projects, travel, etc. this seriously limits your career, especially in becoming a project manager or something like that. for a higher career they don't need someone who can derive the craziest equations, but someone who can put it all together.

I did my ME while working full (+ over) time. Someone else at work did his MS (theses) while working full time and now does his PhD while working full time. With some luck your company will have some projects you could use for your thesis.

When your big shots meet to discuss who to promote, they will remember who could get major projects done. No one will think, "that one guy who never was here really did great in his thermo class, we should promote him"

in addition, working in the field gives you much better understanding of what you learn at school. both school and work are important. but work pays the bills. At work you meet all the knowledgeable people working on that, you go to conferences, you apply things, interact with clients what they need and how it later turns out. You won't learn that int he ivory tower. Again, school and a good base in knowledge are important in addition to work.


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## BG7 (Sep 18, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> If you are serious about getting a job, you should offer them to work full time or nearly full time and do the graduate school part-time. What really helps you in the company to make a career is to get important work done. the MS or PhD title is then just another bonus.
> if you are only part time worker you won't be able to take on important projects, travel, etc. this seriously limits your career, especially in becoming a project manager or something like that. for a higher career they don't need someone who can derive the craziest equations, but someone who can put it all together.
> 
> I did my ME while working full (+ over) time. Someone else at work did his MS (theses) while working full time and now does his PhD while working full time. With some luck your company will have some projects you could use for your thesis.
> ...


Its a job requirement to get my MS. Also, I'm sure its a requirement that while getting it, I have to work part-time, not full-time.

Was your co-worker funded by the school or company to do the thesis? And what if my company doesn't have some projects I could use as my thesis?

Lets just say I don't see myself having a long-term future with this dept in the company as its for flight software, whereas my interests are in CFD


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## HerrKaLeun (Sep 18, 2010)

I guess it would be up to your company if they prefer you working part time. I would guess if they had a choice they'd like you to work more. But you can find that out... just be open to offering to work more. in the end they need someone to do work.

If MS is a requirement and they are OK with you working less and maybe pay tuition.. go for it. You probably will sign something that you have to work there for a while depending on how much they pay your tuition etc. But it sounds good to me to have your company actually demanding that you get more education - then they also support it. After you are done you still can work somewhere else but have an MS and tons of experience.

my co-worker works on storm water modeling etc. and he can use that as topic for both his MS and PhD. but he has to pay tuition and we don't get much tuition reimbursement (I got $ 900 out of my entire $ 24,000 in tuition). We work for a municipality. There only is $ 5,000 per year in tuition money for 2,700 employees . I did a non-thesis program since I didn't want to quit my job to become an RA and write a thesis. Despite paying tuition I still came out ahead (and have a job and didn't need to apply after graduation.


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## BG7 (Sep 18, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I guess it would be up to your company if they prefer you working part time. I would guess if they had a choice they'd like you to work more. But you can find that out... just be open to offering to work more. in the end they need someone to do work.
> If MS is a requirement and they are OK with you working less and maybe pay tuition.. go for it. You probably will sign something that you have to work there for a while depending on how much they pay your tuition etc. But it sounds good to me to have your company actually demanding that you get more education - then they also support it. After you are done you still can work somewhere else but have an MS and tons of experience.
> 
> my co-worker works on storm water modeling etc. and he can use that as topic for both his MS and PhD. but he has to pay tuition and we don't get much tuition reimbursement (I got $ 900 out of my entire $ 24,000 in tuition). We work for a municipality. There only is $ 5,000 per year in tuition money for 2,700 employees . I did a non-thesis program since I didn't want to quit my job to become an RA and write a thesis. Despite paying tuition I still came out ahead (and have a job and didn't need to apply after graduation.


Well, I want to do the thesis for my MS. Thats the most important thing. If I have to quit the job to do it, then I likely will, because I'm also strongly considering doing a phD, since I eventually want to do R&amp;D work. So thats why I'm not so sure taking a permanent job with this company is a good idea since the nearest school is ucla, and it looks like it'll be very hard to do a thesis there in CFD


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