# Is P.E. an overrated status?



## Dark Knight (Sep 19, 2006)

Hello there,

Had a phone interview with a company in the North. Everything was good until they asked me about the PE.

Interviewer:"Are you a P.E. Luis?"

"Yes I am" - I proudly replied.  B)

What the guy said in the other end of the line gave me a cold shower, and I am quoting word by word since I remember them.

" Ah, it is not a big deal anyway.These days anyone can be a P.E. Looks like they are selling it cheaper than ever" :angry:

He changed the subject right away and did not give me a chance to say anything. To be honest with you, I did not know what to say.

What would you say in that situation?

;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns;


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## Road Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

I hear that from a lot of people in Electrical (there are a few other EE Firms in my building) I think its because it seems a lot of the management of an EE firm might be more inclined to have learned client relationships and "winning work" and have not gotten their PE's &amp; thats where the attitude comes from.

so you coming to the states?


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## EdinNO (Sep 19, 2006)

Unless it was an awesome prospect for a job- and maybe even if it were- I would have tried to contain myself and professionally stated to the interviewer that his unprofessional, discourteous and insulting statement illustrated to me that he was not someone for whom I would like to work.

It seems that there are many forces chopping away at the engineering profession. For whatever reason, outsiders are doing what they can to make it a commodity.

Heck with him. Was he an engineer? IF so, was he a P.E.? Perhaps he was jealous.

An older work associate of mine from a job years ago (I still keep in touch with him) told me years ago that those who get P.E. licenses do so to boost their ego. He is an engineer graduate, but has been in sales all his life. Now that I got mine, he states that he never got his because it would mean too much of a personal liability should a project go wrong.

I think he just can't get his license and has to use justification for not having it. Could be the same for your guy. I'd try to forget about it, but it would infuriate me that someone could be so crass and arrogant as to blatantly slap you in the face like that. What a jerk he was!

Ed


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Sep 19, 2006)

I was excited when I got my PE, and figured I would get a congrats and a handshake from coworkers.

They made a much bigger deal of it then I expected. When I email management at the home office, our Principal Engineer sent out a global email. I got congratulatory emails from a lot of folks, and they made a point to mention something the next time I stopped by that office. (We have 5 offices all within 2 hours of each other.)

People at state/local agencies and clients suddenly began taking me a lot more seriously as well.

It was instant credibility. I agree with sapper:



> The PE exam is the same thing, people will call on you first, and will only stop calling upon you if you prove that you aren't capable. People without the PE license, have to prove they are capable, before they are immediately called upon to do work.


That is exactly how I've felt in my experience so far.

And for the guy who says it's no big deal they hand out PE's to anyone: If that's the case, why isn't everyone in our office from the secretary to the draftsman to the field tech an PE also?


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## Road Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

some people see it this way.....

I had lunch with an "old timer" last week, he has a BSCE, but never took the PE. dont know why, but he has about 25 years experience, clients love him, he is one of the most respected project managers around, He knows he is lacking the PE, and wont ever really be able to move out of that role, but his train of thought is that _you can have a PE and still be a dumbass_.

I am sure in his view , and I am not saying I agree with it, I am just telling you his view, that he has watched many a young engineer, who probably didnt really have a lot of experience, get his PE after 4 years, and then whine and belly ache about moving up now that they have their PE, I am sure that sort of menataily stings you after a while. So I think that reason is why some people say that, in regard to the PE.

So I am just trying to relay what I think makes some people think this way. I most certainly will take the PE as many times as required to get it, because these days you wont get the chance to become a PM(in civil) without a PE.

Why he wont take the exam? probably because he would have to go back and take the EIT first (in our state).

Another tale :true:

At my old job there was another Senior PM who also didnt have his PE,. he was a horrible manager, horrible engineer, and generally an asshole. He also had about 20 years experience. Since he realized his ticket was up, he spent the time that he should have been working, and studied for the EIT, and passed it, then passed the PE. Today he has his PE, but in the period of 3 years, he is going on his 4th job, about a year ago,I interviewed for his old position after he got canned the last time, they told me they were happy that he was gone.

So the first old timer is correct, you can be a PE and still be a dumbass


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## cement (Sep 19, 2006)

> Hello there,
> Had a phone interview with a company in the North. Everything was good until they asked me about the PE.
> 
> Interviewer:"Are you a P.E. Luis?"
> ...


a bargain shopper, he is setting you up for a low ball offer.

if you did not have the PE, that would be the reason, you have the PE, it means little.

you don't want to work for a company that can not or will not pay for quality people. :resp


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## DVINNY (Sep 19, 2006)

Sounds to me like he's too damn dumb to pass it himself and he has a chip on his shoulder.

My advise: You don't want to work with him.

p.s. (Not that I've been smart enough to pass the PE yet myself)


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## Dark Knight (Sep 19, 2006)

Hello there,

This is response to RG who asked me a question....

I am not coming to the states. I am already here. I am just trying to move away from Florida, the high cost of living where I live and the salary I have where I work.

I thought that now it was going to be easier since I get my license but so far my count is 0 balls, 1 strike.

;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns;


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## Road Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

10-4.

I am sure you will get a "hit" soon.

Just give it a little patience.

I looked into moving to FLorida a few years back,(jacksonville) reallyt hated to turn the offer down, but my same house would have cost an extra $100K in jacksonville, unless I wanted to commute an hour to work, so I figured that would be the same rat racec here in Atlanta.

Louis, get your resume on Monster.com &amp; Careerbuilder.com with your new PE title and list that you are willing to relocate, you should get plenty of calls


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Sep 19, 2006)

Move to northern New England. If I got 4 offers, imagine how many a good engineer would actually get! :true:


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## EdinNO (Sep 19, 2006)

Good advice about resume on Monster. I did that based on RG's advice a few weeks back and have gotten several hits. One made me an offer (although I did hit the "apply now" button on their add) and another I am going to meet this afternoon (this one found me all on his own). I have had at least close to a dozen others in the last few weeks but none of the others were interesting. But within a few weeks I hope to have two offers on the table.

Thanks RG! :thumbsup:

Ed


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## TouchDown (Sep 19, 2006)

Agreed on the Monster / Careerbuilder. I have a resume out there and get 2-3 openings requesting me to apply, but almost all are east coast / west coast. I want to stay in my little po-dunk town, but it's good to know what else is out there.

Wonder how much headhunters make?


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## TouchDown (Sep 19, 2006)

2-3 request / week...


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## Road Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

when we use a headhunter generally their fee is 20% of the new hires starting salary. which is why we try like hell not to use them....


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## EdinNO (Sep 19, 2006)

I think they (headhunters) make TOO much.

Ed


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Sep 20, 2006)

This is the guy my firm uses.


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## EdinNO (Sep 20, 2006)

Man, I bet that's a Ralph Lauren hoola skirt. I know that's a Gucci nose bone and a Versachi feather hat. He probably even rides a zebra named Hummer. See- he makes way too many bones.

ed


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## benbo (Sep 20, 2006)

Here are my thoughts on this-

1. If it didn't matter he wouldn't have asked.

2. It certainly does matter if you are going to stamp documents.

3. Other than that, it is a good sorting tool for HR/ hiring folks.

4. If it was so easy to pass, the pass rates would be higher.

That said, I've looked at some old PE exams when they did the essay format and those things were really, really hard. At least for electrical. There was no easy breadth and hard depth - just a morning essay session and afternoon multiple choice. They asked you to actually design things in the exam - like "given this Mosfet, desing a Colpitts oscillator with blah blah characteristics", or "design a Butterworth bandpass filter with xxx ripple and blah blah." It looked tough to me. Of course, they gave partial credit.


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## redrum (Sep 20, 2006)

where did you get a peak at the old exams?

wouldnt mind having a little look see myslef...


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## benbo (Sep 20, 2006)

CEHopeful -

Should have been more clear. These were old practice exams released by NCEES. Also an old practice exam Camara (the guy that currently does the practice exam for "the other board"). I found them in my university bookstore and a used technical bookstore. You can probably find them on the internet somewhere.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 22, 2006)

Hello there,

Just to let you know. Here is my answer to an invitation to a face to face interview from the infamous company. I did not include all the details and, of course, did not finish with BRING IT ON!!!!!...

"Thanks for your interview invitation but after our conversation last Monday, September 18th, I have decided not to pursue the position anymore. I had another vision about your company, different that the one showed to me during the phone interview, which made me change my mind.

Every year hundreds or probably thousands of engineers sacrifice family and friends to prepare themselves for the PE test. Some do that looking for better professional opportunities, others to reach a personal goals and others because it is required to them by their superiors. No matter the reason why they are looking their license the truth is that it is a big deal for them. It was a big deal for me too.

As far as I know you cannot buy a P.E. license. It is not for sell. You have to work hard to get it and believe me, it is not easy. Your comments in our conversation showed me your company do not value the PE license and I would not be interested in working in a company like that.

Thanks for the chance of the phone interview and again, for the invitation for a face to face interview. I appreciated it."

I signed the e-mail with luis_pr,P.E. ( I used my real name with the P.E. in bold letters). Now I feel better.

;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns;


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## EdinNO (Sep 22, 2006)

Good for you! Hopefully they will learn from the process. I admire you for standing up and professionally telling them how you really feel.

Ed


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## jeb6294 (Sep 22, 2006)

Ouch....

I'm going to make a couple assumptions here:

1) Your phone interview was just an informal interview with some non-Engineer from HR

2) The Engineering types were impressed enough by your resume that they wanted to do a face to face interview

I'd love to see what happens when your letter shows up on the desk of some principal engineer there and he figures out what their HR guy is telling people.


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## DVINNY (Sep 22, 2006)

LUIS,

YOU FREAKIN ROCK BRO!!!!!!!!!!

That email is awesome and you should be congratulated on taking a stance for all engineers. Good job!!!!!


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## EdinNO (Sep 22, 2006)

Sound like Luis did a little bringing it on of his own!

Ed


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## DrFranz (Sep 22, 2006)

admirable. they deserved that. What kind of an engineer are you? Send me your resume... maybe I can find something for you within my company... we have lots of engineers of all kinds... (over 16'000 engineers) and offices all over the world.

Bring it on!!!


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## Slugger926 (Sep 22, 2006)

It doesn't help when some companies hand out engineering titles like candy. HR departments should learn that they aren't getting their money's worth by handing an engineering title and $$ to the secretary, when they could get by with some sort of tech title.

Several large companies have also made it standard practice to lay off PE's usually because the managers have no clue what a real engineer is. This really discourages good engineers from obtaining the PE license when they see peers get punished for it.

I am the exception in my company so far, but I kept my head low when I was going for the PE. I didn't announce what I did until after I got my license. (a lot of management here worked their way up through the field or were called engineers in the military so they think they are entitled to be an engineer (legal or not))

I would love to get the respect of being an PE and do the challenging work of a PE, but any other job would be a step back in $$ and benifits.


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## Frontier05 (Sep 22, 2006)

> Hello there,
> Just to let you know. Here is my answer to an invitation to a face to face interview from the infamous company. I did not include all the details and, of course, did not finish with BRING IT ON!!!!!...
> 
> "Thanks for your interview invitation but after our conversation last Monday, September 18th, I have decided not to pursue the position anymore. I had another vision about your company, different that the one showed to me during the phone interview, which made me change my mind.
> ...


I don't blame you for having no desire to work for an employer like that. Your letter sums it up pretty good.

oh, if you didn't send it out yet --- As far as I know, you can not buy a P.E. license. It is not for sale.

I've been in Florida for over 23 years. It's changed quite a bit and your right, saleries do not match the inflation cost. Home prices are nuts along with outragous property taxes and home owner insurance (if you can even find some after getting droped). I don't even know how the seniors even make it on a fixed income. Hopefully someone with authority will wake up and do something to stop the madness.

I know a few people who left Florida already. It's very possible I'm on my way out of this state as well.

Anyways, good luck with your search.


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