# Electronics exam - need help!



## schmidty99 (Jan 10, 2011)

To all:

After receiving my second failure letter in 2010, its fairly obvious that I'm missing a piece of the puzzle for the Electronics exam. Has anyone out there passed the electronics exam in its current format? If so, any pointers would be very appreciated. I'm thinking about the PE Readiness course (pelicense.org), anyone tried this review course? I'll be trying for a 3rd time in April 2011, but its getting frustrating (not to mention expensive.) Anything anybody has to offer would be greatly appreciated!


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## schmidty99 (Jan 10, 2011)

Just did some more checking and the PE Readiness course is specific to Power. Go figure.


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## CincinnatiControlsGuy (Jan 10, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> To all:
> After receiving my second failure letter in 2010, its fairly obvious that I'm missing a piece of the puzzle for the Electronics exam. Has anyone out there passed the electronics exam in its current format? If so, any pointers would be very appreciated. I'm thinking about the PE Readiness course (pelicense.org), anyone tried this review course? I'll be trying for a 3rd time in April 2011, but its getting frustrating (not to mention expensive.) Anything anybody has to offer would be greatly appreciated!


I just passed it this past October, but I didn't take any courses, though this was mainly because I'm pathologically incapable of listening to a teacher. Quite frankly I found that being extremely strong in both mathematics (Calculus) and circuit analysis is the key. I started studying in late Feb./early Mar. with my Calculus book from college (Stewart). I made it through differentiation and basic integration. It would seem like doing this is pointless, and maybe it was, but the problem solving and mathematics refresher calmed my mind and proved very useful when dealing with transforms. By late June I started on the EERM package from PPI (big $400 package that included the NCEES problems for the EC&amp;C electrical module). Around August I started studying, concurrently, the Hayt/Kemmerly circuit analysis book from my college days. I was actually able to finish this book, but it took a major toll on my social life even though I had the time (single with no kids). However, after going through it I felt extremely confident with basic circuit analysis and components, op-amps, filters, transformers, and Fourier/Laplace transforms. Between the EERM and the circuit analysis book I felt pretty good about basic circuit analysis, electronics, and controls. By mid-October I had convinced myself that I was done studying and that I could pack no more information in my brain. Satellite stuff is pretty simple if you MIND YOUR UNITS!!! By units I mean dB vs. W, etc.

What I would suggest is getting that package from PPI: http://ppi2pass.com/ppi/PPIShop?ct=ELECTRI...=0&amp;pr=EEEP2. It's comprehensive and can be done in 3 months, but you absolutely cannot skim the chapters. Hang on every word and read as if you're looking for mistakes. Work through every problem and follow the syllabus that PPI provides; it skips the sections that aren't relevant for your module. Once you are confident with your studies from that package simply continue doing problems elsewhere, though the bulk of your studies are done. On exam day bring some of the reference books suggested by the EERM and the ARRL handbook (seemingly impossible RF questions are made easy with this book). Good luck in April!


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## schmidty99 (Jan 10, 2011)

I feel there were several problems on the exam that were not even touched in any of my studies, and I have all the PPI books you mentioned above. Specifically signal processing and control problems. I mostly followed the syllabus that Camara laid out in the EERM. I mean there wasn't any similar problems even in the NCEES sample exam. I'm just wondering how you would have figured those out? Maybe I'll have to find/make up a similar problem and post it out here.

You said that PPI has a specific syllabus, or are you referring to the Camara one?


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## Brett M Huhman (Jan 10, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> To all:
> After receiving my second failure letter in 2010, its fairly obvious that I'm missing a piece of the puzzle for the Electronics exam. Has anyone out there passed the electronics exam in its current format? If so, any pointers would be very appreciated. I'm thinking about the PE Readiness course (pelicense.org), anyone tried this review course? I'll be trying for a 3rd time in April 2011, but its getting frustrating (not to mention expensive.) Anything anybody has to offer would be greatly appreciated!


I took the electronics for the first time and passed. What I did was:

1) Buy the NCEES sample exam booklet

2) Bought a bunch of Schaum's Outlines (Electronic Devices and Circuit, Basic Circuit Analysis, Analog and Digital Communications, Digital Signal Processing, Signals and Systems, and Electric Circuits)

3) Bought Electrical Engineering Handbook (Schmidt-Walter-Kories)

4) Textbooks from college

5) Sample test from Kaiser

I started studying in late May, with the NCEES exam. I went through each problem, remembering almost nothing from my basic EE classes. I used the test questions as a guide to research the texts to relearn the basics. From there I worked to the Kaiser test, then I found my local library had the Camera and Kaplan Sample Exams. I worked through all of these, using my texts as references. About early October all I did was rework the tests so I knew the basic concepts they were presenting fairly well. I also marked my references as I went, which made it much easier during the test.

I think the biggest part is knowing your references and having the basic concepts down.


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## CincinnatiControlsGuy (Jan 10, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> I feel there were several problems on the exam that were not even touched in any of my studies, and I have all the PPI books you mentioned above. Specifically signal processing and control problems. I mostly followed the syllabus that Camara laid out in the EERM. I mean there wasn't any similar problems even in the NCEES sample exam. I'm just wondering how you would have figured those out? Maybe I'll have to find/make up a similar problem and post it out here.
> You said that PPI has a specific syllabus, or are you referring to the Camara one?


I should have been more specific, sorry. Yes, I was referring to Camara's syllabus. If by signal processing you mean solving Fourier Series problems I always brute-forced problems like that by integrating after I found what was periodic about the waveform. You can simplify those problems using symmetry, but I felt that if I integrated them that I'd always have the right answer and I'd never have to think about it. Unfortunately, I did something similar for controls, especially when finding transfer functions.


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## Brett M Huhman (Jan 10, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> I feel there were several problems on the exam that were not even touched in any of my studies, and I have all the PPI books you mentioned above. Specifically signal processing and control problems. I mostly followed the syllabus that Camara laid out in the EERM. I mean there wasn't any similar problems even in the NCEES sample exam. I'm just wondering how you would have figured those out? Maybe I'll have to find/make up a similar problem and post it out here.
> You said that PPI has a specific syllabus, or are you referring to the Camara one?


I found Camera to be overly simplistic with no depth. Try reading the reference manual with the sample test in hand, and look up some topics. It mentions some things (like Shannon Bandwidth (516)) but no actual way to apply it to something useful.

Try to answer sample questions 539, 540, 538, and 528 with the reference manual. My textbooks were much more useful.


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## schmidty99 (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm finding I have most of the books you guys have (other than some of the specific college texts). I thought I had Fourier figured out too then when the exam came, I just got confused. Are the Kaplan books/exams representative of NCEES sample exam? I found that many of the problems with Camara didn't have the feel of real thing. Brett, I'll try some of those problems you mention again. I can post my failure diagnostic so you guys can see the areas I need help with. Flyer_PE, Dark Knight: That wouldn't be considered any kind of NCEES violation would it?


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## Brett M Huhman (Jan 10, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> Thanks for the tips guys. I'm finding I have most of the books you guys have (other than some of the specific college texts). I thought I had Fourier figured out too then when the exam came, I just got confused. Are the Kaplan books/exams representative of NCEES sample exam? I found that many of the problems with Camara didn't have the feel of real thing. Brett, I'll try some of those problems you mention again. I can post my failure diagnostic so you guys can see the areas I need help with. Flyer_PE, Dark Knight: That wouldn't be considered any kind of NCEES violation would it?


The Kaplan stuff was more difficult than the exam, and the NCEES sample exam was pretty close. If you can do the Kaplan questions without troubles, then you are well prepared. That said, the Kaplan answer key is very helpful on the exam, as it is indexed by topic! I found a few of the questions in it handy.

The EE Handbook that I purchased has a nice section on Fourier, with a table for all of the different types. It actually covers all topics except antennas.


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## Lord2005 (Jan 11, 2011)

I passed in my first time and I suggest to you that try to buy Microelectronics Book from Jacob Millman it will be very helpfull in Opamps, filters, electric cicuits and digital that in my opinion is the core of this exam. Good lock next time. :screwloose:



Brett M Huhman said:


> schmidty99 said:
> 
> 
> > To all:
> ...


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## schmidty99 (Jan 11, 2011)

Brett: Do you mean the Kaplan problems are more difficult than the NCEES sample exam problems? And that the sample exam is pretty close to the real thing? I know the NCEES sample is close to the real thing, I just wish there would more sample-exam-like problems out there.

Lord2005: thx for the heads up, I'll look into the book. Same to the rest of you guys. Keep the comments coming!!


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## Brett M Huhman (Jan 11, 2011)

schmidty99 said:


> Brett: Do you mean the Kaplan problems are more difficult than the NCEES sample exam problems? And that the sample exam is pretty close to the real thing? I know the NCEES sample is close to the real thing, I just wish there would more sample-exam-like problems out there.
> Lord2005: thx for the heads up, I'll look into the book. Same to the rest of you guys. Keep the comments coming!!


Kaplan is more difficult, but are still worth doing. The Kaiser sample exam and the questions in the Schaum's Outlines are good, too.


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## schmidty99 (Jan 12, 2011)

Well guys, thanks for the help. I'll be posting problems (almost annoyingly I'm sure). This will be my 3rd time in April 2011, and I want it to be my last. Keep the comments coming!


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## Lord2005 (Jan 12, 2011)

Well the NCEES sample examination is the more close possible problems, but use also schaum series will be very help full on circuits, system and for telecomunication, also the Camara book.



schmidty99 said:


> Well guys, thanks for the help. I'll be posting problems (almost annoyingly I'm sure). This will be my 3rd time in April 2011, and I want it to be my last. Keep the comments coming!


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## schmidty99 (Jan 12, 2011)

Ok. I've used the Camara 9th edition for my studies that last two times I took the test. Its starting to lose its luster. Although it has been somewhat helpful. Obviously I can't blame it all my study materials, I'm ultimately responsible for my own success...(or failure)


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## CincinnatiControlsGuy (Jan 12, 2011)

For circuits I think your best bet is to be as solid as you were in college. This is where Brett is absolutely correct: use your college textbooks. When you think about it, a huge chunk of the exam depends on your knowledge of circuits. You can't solve transistor problems without it nor can you deal with the transfer functions in controls. I would contend that the book that helped me the most was my Hayt/Kemmerly circuit analysis book from college: http://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Circuit-...t/dp/0073263184. Don't let the reviews scare you as they're mostly whining about it being too mathematically rigorous. Moreover, it covers almost everything. DC/AC circuit theory, op-amps, filters, Laplace and Fourier transforms, magnetically coupled circuits, all types of power problems (for the EC&amp;C module you still need to know Real/Apparent/Complex power), Thevenin/Norton theorems, and two port networks. From there electronics and controls studying should be pretty straightforward.


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## schmidty99 (Jan 12, 2011)

GroesbeckEE said:


> For circuits I think your best bet is to be as solid as you were in college. This is where Brett is absolutely correct: use your college textbooks. When you think about it, a huge chunk of the exam depends on your knowledge of circuits. You can't solve transistor problems without it nor can you deal with the transfer functions in controls. I would contend that the book that helped me the most was my Hayt/Kemmerly circuit analysis book from college: http://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Circuit-...t/dp/0073263184. Don't let the reviews scare you as they're mostly whining about it being too mathematically rigorous. Moreover, it covers almost everything. DC/AC circuit theory, op-amps, filters, Laplace and Fourier transforms, magnetically coupled circuits, all types of power problems (for the EC&amp;C module you still need to know Real/Apparent/Complex power), Thevenin/Norton theorems, and two port networks. From there electronics and controls studying should be pretty straightforward.


From my diagnostic, I do ok in General Engineering, but there is plenty of room for improvement. I missed 8 of the 11 questions in Signal Processing and missed 4 of 7 under Measurement and Instrumentation. I need to be rock solid there to make up for what I am lacking in other areas...I got 50% in Controls and 50% in Communications. I also recall during the exam that my mind pretty much went blank when it came to electronics/transistors, so I obviously didn't have that burned into my brain like I had thought.

I can get more specific if anyone would like to comment on it. I haven't heard from Flyer_Pe or Dark Knight as to whether they think uploading my diagnostic to the forum would be a NCEES violation. I don't think so but....


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## om_rap (Jun 1, 2012)

Hello,

I saw someone mention about "Kaiser Sample PE test"..I tried looking for this online but wasnt helpful.

Can you tell me where I can obtain this sample test(s)?


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## gte636i (Jun 1, 2012)

http://www.klkaiser.com/

You'll have to register for an account, it's free I think. At least it was a few months ago.


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## om_rap (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks. Its a good site. The tests/ questions also resemble those in the electronics PE exam


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## snobumPE (Jun 1, 2012)

Here are my thoughts from having just passed. Everyone is different. Find what works for you. Just wanted to get this out now before I do a brain dump and forget it (also known as go to the bar). Below is my story:

I took electronics twice. First time I got 45/80. I had studied a lot the first time but didn't study the right things. I was surprised how much certain topics showed up (like antennas). The biggest problem for me was lack of information about the test and review materials. Everyone takes the power exam so there is a TON of information out there for that. Also, what I do doesn't fit neatly into one of the three tests.

After I failed, I did end up taking a review class online (Illinois Institute of Technology). The price was steep, and I probably wouldn't have taken it if I didn't know my company was going to pay for it. I wouldn't say it was the best, but it helped me stay on track. It did help me understand some topics better than my own studying though (like modulation).

References:

1) As I went through, I wrote down anything I thought that was important, including examples that showed key topics well. I realized I had a lot of good references, but couldn't spend too much time shifting between them all. I pretty much just scribbled them down and put them in a pile. A few weeks before the exam, I went through and organized the notes by topic and realized how much I had actually done. I re-wrote all the notes and put them into a 3-ring binder, separated into sections with a topic index as the first page that lined up to the tabs. Re-writing everything kept things fresh, and helped me remember where things were.

This was easily the thing that saved me the most time. It allowed me to get through the things I knew quickly and save valuable time to look up stuff I didn't. There were maybe 3-4 questions in the morning and afternoon each that all the time in the world wouldn't have helped, but I could spend the time to make an educated guess. When I didn't do this the first time around, I felt very rushed. This time, I almost felt like I was in control of the time.

2) NCEES sample questions - a must have. Questions in here are closest to the real thing and actually helped me during the exam. I went through every question and when I didn't understand a solution would look up any material I could find on the topic (such as noise figure - I had NEVER used that before).

3) Everyone's Favorite: the Electrical and Electronics Reference Manual (EERM) - Definitely the most complete guide for this exam. It's not perfect and leaves some things out, but also a must have. Become familiar with it's structure and learn to use the index. The sample problems and test that go along with this are just ok.

4) Kaplan Review Books - I didn't like their sample questions at all. There was one thing in there that happened to be on the test that wasn't anywhere else. Dumb luck that it happened to be in the index and scored me one point. Seems to have a lot of errors though, so be careful.

5) College Textbooks - I'll admit the first time I re-opened these books, you could see the blank stare on my face. But when I needed specific information, it would start to come back to me. I think subconsciously, having used the books before, it was something more familiar so it helped quite a bit. Especially for semiconductors, FETs, and BJTs.

6) Along with #5, get a good circuits book - preferably one that you've used before. It's 25% of the exam. Also make sure you have a good reference for pi-pads (a, b, g, h, y, and z parameters). I didn't realize how necessary it was. It's the first sample question in the NCEES book and I happened to ask someone about it and they gave me a good reference for it (Electric Circuits by Nilsson and Riedel).

OTHER THINGS THAT I USED:

1) FE Reference Tables: Someone else I know took the tables, cut them down to what he thought was important, and added key formulas. It helped me out a little, and I think it was his way of doing what I did for #1 above.

2) NEC: Though not necessary, it did help me answer 1 or 2 questions.

3) Irvine Institute of Technology Books - They were written for the old, written exams. They personally did not help me. Some people swear by them but I think they are mostly power people. Again, I wouldn't have bought them if work wasn't paying.

MY PERSONAL TEXTBOOKS (though I recommend you use ones you are familiar with):

Circuits Book: Introduction to Electronic Circuits, 5th Edition, Dorf and Svoboda.

Microelectronics/Digital Components Book: Microelectronic Circuits, 5th Edition, Sedra/Smith

Logic Book: Contemporary Logic Design, Katz (Not the greatest in my mind, but something I was familiar with)

I also had control system books that I had left from college, but didn't really use them. I felt the topics I needed to know for control systems were well covered in other books (like the EERM)

If anyone has any questions for me, feel free to PM me. I'm gonna try and stick around these boards, even though I'm done!


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## om_rap (Jun 4, 2012)

hello SnobumPE..

Congratulations on your success!

I think I didnt do well beacuse I was slow at writing the test. I got all 41 right as I had anticipated I "truely attempted"..which is a good sign to know that I got almost all attempted questions correct.

but I literally blindly marked around 30 questions. I definitely need to work on my speed here..to atleast truely attempt majority of the questions.

How did you prepare on the wireless portion . Do you know of a good references for the wireless communications. Does Schaum has an outline on this?

Do you know of a good reference on the measurement and instrumentation?


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