# Sign and Seal!



## bezzy (Jul 14, 2010)

I was hired in a company as a field engineer and worked on a short term project that took two months. The company let me go after their contract finished on this job. I was in probation for 90 days so I had no benefits and no unemployment paid for me.

Now, the employer calling me to come in and sign and seal the final certification report for the job that done.

I am a P.E. engineer but they never told me that I am the one that must sign and seal (in the offer letter I was hired as a field engineer nothing mentioned about signing and sealing) and also I am not currently employed by this company. I have been laid off for three weeks now.

Am I *obligated* to sign and seal the final certification? Please let me know what your thoughts are.

Thanks.


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## Sschell (Jul 14, 2010)

You are not obligated to stamp anything. Since you are not an employee of that company, they cannot make you do that (I would question the ethics of them even asking).

If they would like to hire you back as a contractor, at 3X the pay you recieved as an employee (at least), maybe you should consider carefully reviewing and stamping the plans... otherwise, well... they should have had you stamp BEFORE whacking you.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 14, 2010)

sschell_PE said:


> You are not obligated to stamp anything. Since you are not an employee of that company, they cannot make you do that (I would question the ethics of them even asking).
> 
> If they would like to hire you back as a contractor, at 3X the pay you recieved as an employee (at least), maybe you should consider carefully reviewing and stamping the plans... otherwise, well... they should have had you stamp BEFORE whacking you.


i agree with sschell, they have a lot of nerve even asking. they should have thought about that before they canned you. if they made changes after you left, you would have to review it as it is your stamp you are defending, and as you said u are not their employee.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 14, 2010)

Keep that PE-ness in your pants!


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## FINK_RB_PE (Jul 14, 2010)

I notice that you are in DC but if the company is based in Virginia it would seem like this is a violation of the code to stamp the drawing for a company that you are not employed by even if you did the project, especially if they never listed you on their COA.


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## Paul S (Jul 14, 2010)

I agree with the above and vote "no way"


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## MA_PE (Jul 14, 2010)

^ I wouldn't stamp anything


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## ALBin517 (Jul 14, 2010)

"Come on in. You get all of the liability with none of the compensation. It really is the worst of both worlds."

I'm licensed and I wouldn't do it. But I've been licensed for three years without ever signing more than a PE Experience Verification Form.


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## EM_PS (Jul 14, 2010)

bezzy said:


> Am I *obligated* to sign and seal the final certification? Please let me know what your thoughts are.Thanks.


An emphatic No! I'd tell them to pound sand, the jingoistic bastards!


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## soobs (Jul 14, 2010)

Ask them for $ 

Who the hell works for free?


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 14, 2010)

soobs said:


> Who the hell works for free?


Depends on who you ask.


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## Dleg (Jul 14, 2010)

I wouldn't even stamp it for good money. What a bunch of D-bags.


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## bezzy (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

If I am not obligated to sign and seal now that I am laid off, I'm not going to do so and tell him that I am no longer their employee.

His side of the story is that he keeps telling me that I was the one who had been present at the job site at all time so I must do the signing &amp; sealing.


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## Dleg (Jul 14, 2010)

Tell him he should have thought of that before he got rid of you.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 15, 2010)

The only way you should even consider it is if he agrees in writing (full-blown contract) to cover all of your fees and expenses if litigation were to ever occur over the project, and he pays you a schload of money. Even with a lot of money, that wouldn't protect you from lawsuits, and it is the responsibility of the employer to carry professional liability insurance on its licensed professionals.


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## Sschell (Jul 15, 2010)

^I agree with this dude.


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## MA_PE (Jul 15, 2010)

If you want to, you could sign the form and confirm that you were on site and took the data.

I wouldn't stamp, because then you are responsible for any repercussions if the data is wrong.


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## Sschell (Jul 15, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> The only way you should even consider it is if he agrees in writing (full-blown contract) to cover all of your fees and expenses if litigation were to ever occur over the project, and he pays you a *schload* of money. Even with a lot of money, that wouldn't protect you from lawsuits, and it is the responsibility of the employer to carry professional liability insurance on its licensed professionals.


can we make this a "sschelload of money" I like the sound of that better... although... probably has the opposite meaning.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jul 15, 2010)

Dleg said:


> Tell him he should have thought of that before he got rid of you.


FTW!


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## IlPadrino (Jul 16, 2010)

I'll offer a different perspective...

Not knowing the details of what you're being asked to sign/seal, I'd like to know the risks before saying "hell no".

Bottom line: If they asked you to sign while you were still under contract, would you have done so? If yes, then think about it now assuming: 1) it is legal, 2) there is little risk, and 3) you wouldn't need to spend significant time reviewing the final product. Of course, if they were willing to fairly compensate you if it did require significant time, then all the better! But then I'd wonder if it's worth the hassle of addressing the method of payment, second-order affects (like liability!) and any tax implications.

Something about burning bridges, cutting of your nose to spite your face, or something similar.

To be clear, in no way are you OBLIGATED (which you particularly highlighted as the question) to do anything for anyone... *EVER*. Had they asked you to do so while you were still employed, you weren't then and you aren't now. But they could have tried to terminate your contract if you failed to perform.


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## MA_PE (Jul 16, 2010)

IlPadrino said:


> I'll offer a different perspective...
> Not knowing the details of what you're being asked to sign/seal, I'd like to know the risks before saying "hell no".
> 
> Bottom line: If they asked you to sign while you were still under contract, would you have done so? If yes, then think about it now assuming: 1) it is legal, 2) there is little risk, and 3) you wouldn't need to spend significant time reviewing the final product. Of course, if they were willing to fairly compensate you if it did require significant time, then all the better! But then I'd wonder if it's worth the hassle of addressing the method of payment, second-order affects (like liability!) and any tax implications.
> ...


agreed. And as I said before he may want to sign the inspection forms as evidenced that he performed the fiedl inspections, however stamping the final certification belongs to the engineer emplyed by or insured by the inspection company so that in the event of any liability, it goes to the company and not the individual.


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## Road Guy (Jul 16, 2010)

what kinds of report do they want you to sign?

Before I said "hell no" I would think about what they want you to sign and if they are willing to compensate you for your time and make sure that the you are covered under their insurance for the document..


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## outatime2002 (Aug 17, 2010)

Treat your stamp as a woman would treat her private parts. Do not give it up for free.


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## Dleg (Aug 18, 2010)




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