# Environmental or Civil(wr-env) PE exam?



## hrun (Dec 9, 2007)

I have a B.S. in Environmental Engineering and graduated about 16 yrs ago.

I Work in water resources for about the same time.

I registered for the 2008 april Environmental PE exam.

As I looked at some sample problems and this forum

it seems like there are many qualitative questions (regulations, etc)

on the exam. This scares me a little, was not very good

at those types of questions in college.

Is it better to take the Civil (wr-env) instead?

thanks for any insight


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2007)

^^^ You may want to see what you can do about your exam registration first. Some of the states and exam administrators are rather picky.

As far as which exam to take - that is always difficult choice. Like yourself, I have a BS Env Eng and I am completing MS Civil Eng with emphasis on Geotechnical Engineering. I choose the Civil Exam with WR depth because I have had exposure to geotechnical engineering topics recently. While I had only had limited structural classes and no transportation classes, I was able to rehabilitate my understanding with concentrated study.

Just so you know, there are qualitative questions on the Civil PE exam as well, so it isn't just a matter of taking an exam that doesn't have problems of that type. Your best bet to look at the Civil PE Exam Specifications and the Environmental PE Exam Specifications at NCEES to see which one you think makes a better 'fit' for you.

Best of luck!

JR


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## Dleg (Dec 9, 2007)

I took the Env. exam, and my degree was ME, and I was 16 years out of college at the time. I work as a state regulator, so it made sense for me to take it, and my work background prepared me reasonably for the regulation stuff (though there is no way any single person could ahve experience in everything covered by the exam!)

If I had the option of taking the enviro exam or the civil exam, I would strongly consider taking the civil exam. The civil PE is just a lot more versatile / portable, unless you're looking for something more unique by being licenced as an enviro. I am not aware of any state that won't let a civil PE stamp anything an enviro can, but I am aware of a few places where an enviro PE would not be allowed to stamp everything a civil PE could. :dunno:


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## FLBuff PE (Dec 10, 2007)

Dleg said:


> I took the Env. exam, and my degree was ME, and I was 16 years out of college at the time. I work as a state regulator, so it made sense for me to take it, and my work background prepared me reasonably for the regulation stuff (though there is no way any single person could ahve experience in everything covered by the exam!)
> If I had the option of taking the enviro exam or the civil exam, I would strongly consider taking the civil exam. The civil PE is just a lot more versatile / portable, unless you're looking for something more unique by being licenced as an enviro. I am not aware of any state that won't let a civil PE stamp anything an enviro can, but I am aware of a few places where an enviro PE would not be allowed to stamp everything a civil PE could. :dunno:


I have been wondering about that. I am in CO, and just took the Enviro Exam in October '07. I work for a geotech./enviro firm, and now that I have taken (and hopefully passed) the enviro exam, I am second guessing that perhaps I should have taken the Civil/enviro exam. It seems strange to me that a PE in enviro would not be "allowed" to stamp anything that a civil would...isn't it up to the PE what they are/are not willing to stamp? After all, we are putting our a**es on the line when we stamp something, so a PE with any sense would not stamp something that puts their livlihood/reputation at risk. Do you know which places do not allow stampage by enviros?


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2007)

^^^ I think Dleg conflated two ideas - something I am routinely guilty of myself.

First thought,

In terms of state-licensed recognition of work, many states grant registration as a matter of a GENERAL LICENSE. For instance, my professional stamp says Professional Engineer - it doesn't indicate my discipline of registration or hint at the body of knowledge that I may possess. However, if you look at a state like California, they provide registration by discipline. So, your stamp will say Civil Engineer or Geotechnical Engineer (as an example). I am not familiar enough to tell you the ins-and-outs of states that register by discipline but know that is how it works in a nutshell.

Again, most states license by engineering profession rather than engineering discipline, so it is just the few states that you have to look into how thier regulation of the profession affects what you can stamp.

Second thought,

While it is true that most states grant registration by "general acceptance", you are still required to follow certain guidelines regarding your proficiency and competency in the areas you provide engineering services (e.g. certify or stamp documents). These standards are typically codified in the state's rules, so obviously the standard for competency or proficiency will vary from state to state.

Again, you will need to see how your education and experience match up with the competency and proficiency standards for the state you wish to practice.

Last thought,

My background mirrors yours in many ways - I am an environmental engineer by education/experience that dabbles a bit in geotechnical work. I took the Civil PE Exam, in part, to ensure portability of my license. So, I guess part of my rationale for claiming competency in some areas of civil engineering is based on passing the Civil PE Exam. I would also need to draw upon experience and education to further those arguments depending on assignments that I accepted.

I realize this post is a bit of a ramble, but I hope it helps give you a start with thinking about how to resolve your questions pertaining to certifying/stamping various engineering works.

JR


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## FLBuff PE (Dec 10, 2007)

jregieng said:


> ^^^ I think Dleg conflated two ideas - something I am routinely guilty of myself.
> First thought,
> 
> In terms of state-licensed recognition of work, many states grant registration as a matter of a GENERAL LICENSE. For instance, my professional stamp says Professional Engineer - it doesn't indicate my discipline of registration or hint at the body of knowledge that I may possess. However, if you look at a state like California, they provide registration by discipline. So, your stamp will say Civil Engineer or Geotechnical Engineer (as an example). I am not familiar enough to tell you the ins-and-outs of states that register by discipline but know that is how it works in a nutshell.
> ...


Looks like I may need to call the State (ugh) after I find out if I passed. Thanks!


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## hrun (Dec 10, 2007)

FLBuff said:


> I have been wondering about that. I am in CO, and just took the Enviro Exam in October '07. I work for a geotech./enviro firm, and now that I have taken (and hopefully passed) the enviro exam, I am second guessing that perhaps I should have taken the Civil/enviro exam. It seems strange to me that a PE in enviro would not be "allowed" to stamp anything that a civil would...isn't it up to the PE what they are/are not willing to stamp? After all, we are putting our a**es on the line when we stamp something, so a PE with any sense would not stamp something that puts their livlihood/reputation at risk. Do you know which places do not allow stampage by enviros?



FLBuff,

I don't have that issue in my state. I just need to get the P.E.

The new Civil (wr-env) covers upto 60% (water related)

then I would have to teach myself about 40%.

Then Env PE has about 34% (Water related)

Then I have to go back and look and probably learn again Air, HAz and Solid Waste,etc.,

which I have not looked at in at least 16 years. (but I probably had some

course on it)

What worries me is all the regulation type questions or definition type questions.

I'm not good at remembering all these rules, or

answering questions like "whats the definition of xxxxxx"

I really hated that kind of test.

I work in the hydrology/hydraulics area.

I would really appreciate you insights!

Would you still take the Env over the Civil PE?


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## FLBuff PE (Dec 10, 2007)

hrun said:


> FLBuff,
> I don't have that issue in my state. I just need to get the P.E.
> 
> The new Civil (wr-env) covers upto 60% (water related)
> ...


Working in the hydrology/hydraulics area, I would think it would be more prudent (not easier, for I do not believe there is a such thing in regards to the PE Exam) for you to go the Civil/WR option. A lot of the PE Enviro involves air quality/management, hazardous waste management, and other related fields. There were a few questions realted to environmental site assesments on the last exam, which I feel you REALLY need the experience to understand and get the questions. One reason why I wanted to saty away from the Civl/WR or Civil/Enviro option is that I am not a structural person...although, having built a deck this summer, I am becoming better at it. For me, ye, I would still have taken the enviro exam (even though hopefully the 2nd time was enough)! Anyway, I would talk to others in your office (or if you are self-employed, your field) and find out what they suggest. The best thing I can recommend no matter what you choose, do lots of problems! JR has had some insights in this vein before, I believe. He may have some additional contributions/advice.

:2cents:


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2007)

hrun said:


> I work in the hydrology/hydraulics area.I would really appreciate you insights!
> 
> Would you still take the Env over the Civil PE?


It is really a very careful balancing act. For me, I took the Civil/Env depth exam a few times until I finally took the Civil/WR depth exam to pass. One of the difficulties for me was my length away from undergraduate coursework that focused on wastewater treatment. It seemed that the Civil/Env depth was weighed heavily towards those problems based on careful review of my 'fail' diagnostic. These days I am primarily doing hazardous waste work or environmental remediation. I was able to prepare and pass for those elements that I needed to learn for stuctural and transportation - I typically performed well with the geotechnical analysis since that was the focus of my graduate degree.

Now here is something to consider with the revised specification - Env/WR are being combined into one depth module and the other four modules will consist of structural, transportation, geotechnical, and construction. The construction module is new and while the specification seems to mainly point to mostly pull from transportation materials, it is still an unknown for most these days. So you are looking at a reduction in the number of problems that might seem to be 'natural' for you on the Civil PE exam.

I think either way you are going to be looking at very significant study periods for either exam you take. It is just a matter as to whether you want to spend time preparing for Civil PE - or Env PE exam. I would also add that since your experience lends itself to hydrology/hydraulics that leaning towards the Civil PE exam probably makes sense but only in a vacuum. You will need to weigh the other considerations I presented above to see which choice seems to match best for you.

Best of luck.

JR


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 11, 2007)

You are right hrun, there is a lot of qualitative stuff on the envl test. It's a mixed blessing. You can't make a math error in a complex formula and screw up your answer that way. But if you don't remember the definition you can't force plug and chug your way to a solution.

If you use the ENVRM for the occupational safety stuff and the Environmental Law Handbook for the major federal acts it's manageable. They just ask the big ones, there won't be any obscure county ordinance stuff in there.


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## Dleg (Dec 11, 2007)

^^I'm pretty sure there are a few other enviros who occasionally post. We're just the spam kings.


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## hrun (Dec 12, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> You are right hrun, there is a lot of qualitative stuff on the envl test. It's a mixed blessing. You can't make a math error in a complex formula and screw up your answer that way. But if you don't remember the definition you can't force plug and chug your way to a solution.
> If you use the ENVRM for the occupational safety stuff and the Environmental Law Handbook for the major federal acts it's manageable. They just ask the big ones, there won't be any obscure county ordinance stuff in there.


Thanks! I'll take a look at the Environmental Law Handbook. I still have a little time

to make the my decision.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 12, 2007)

^ I'd say I answered maybe 8 questions straight out of that book.


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## hrun (Dec 13, 2007)

hrun said:


> I have a B.S. in Environmental Engineering and graduated about 16 yrs ago.I Work in water resources for about the same time.
> 
> I registered for the 2008 april Environmental PE exam.
> 
> ...


I have decided to take the Civil(Water resources-Environmental) PE exam in april 2008,

Thank you very much for your advice!


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## FLBuff PE (Dec 13, 2007)

hrun said:


> I have decided to take the Civil(Water resources-Environmental) PE exam in april 2008,Thank you very much for your advice!


Good Luck! One problem that I felt like while studying the first time around (April '07) was that I had forgotten things that I had reviewed early on. Try to do several practice exams along the way to gauge where you stand, and try to review things that you looked at early on. Again, good luck on this journey in your career/life!

:waitwall:


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## al***vj (Jun 10, 2008)

Practice, practice, practice. That's the key.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

al***vj said:


> Practice, practice, practice. That's the key.


Very nice point! lusone:

JR


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