# April it is



## jdd18vm (Jan 10, 2008)

Hey all

Been lurking in the wings licking wounds and hadn't been all that eager to post, also didn't want to raining on anyones parade.

With that, let me first offer my sincerest congratulations to all my October EBmates on passing WTG! Not fairing as well, I have a much greater appreciation for your accomplishment.

Additional I would ALSO like to thank you all for the advice and help.

The fee is in, and it's time to get back into it for April. That being said I would love to hear from those of you that passed, what you thought made the difference, what you did that you were glad you did, what you were glad you didn't waste time on. Additionally, perhaps more important, would appreciate input from those who didn't succeed the first time. What did YOU do different for the successive exam(s) that made the difference?

If not some sort of violation, I wouldn't mind sharing my diagnostic report with anyone that feels they can offer some valuable feedback or insightful analysis. Just send me a private message. For those first timers who have never had the "pleasure" it's basically a breakdown of subject (knowledge) areas is identical to the NCEES listings for Breadth and Depth and associated % correct.

While some things are painfully obvious, I'd hope for responses like "this was a good resource for that". "Focus on this..."

I knew going into the test I was weak on Electronics and Controls that held true. Knew I was weak on the am, felt better on Power pm

So Benbo....be ready lol.

Would it be an NCEES violation to ask the October examinees a question like "did you think there were x# of Controls question on the am?"

Thanks in advance.

John


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## benbo (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Jim. If I can help along the way, I will. You can send me the diagnostic if you like, or even post it here. I'm not sure I can give you any super insight on it but I can look it over to see. Just IM me through the site if you like. I am sure there are many here who will have more pointers, including the old reliables and maybe some new faces.

As far as I'm concerned passing or not is generally a quesiton of a few questions - I'm certainly sure I didn't nail it and not many do. It is just getting that marginal amount up, and hopefully the exam will look more familiar every time.

One thing I will say that I personally (IMHO) think is important for controls and for circuits, and for electroincs (especially op amp). It may even be helpful in my nemesis -power. Learn to recognize voltage and current dividers, and * Learn a good method for doing node analysis (KCL). * You can learn a systematic method for this, and practice, and it will surely get you a question or two in this area. I think a lot of people waste a lot of time learnign node and loop analysis equally. Pick one to concentrate on, and learn the rudiments of the other. I like node analysis. I just barely know loop (KVL) - I don't think it is anywhere near as valuable or easy. After that, a lot of controls is just algebra.

I'm sure others may disagree, but this is my opinion.


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## mudpuppy (Jan 10, 2008)

Glad to see you're back in the game, John. Feel free to post your diagnostic here if you want; or PM it to me too.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry to read that John.

Do not quit and be smart on your study now. You don't have to work harder, just smarter. We will be here for you my friend.


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## maryannette (Jan 11, 2008)

I took the Civil exam, so I can't offer a lot of specific help, but the one thing that I saw on my exam and expect everyone to see was related to project management. There were 2 or 3 questions on critical path in project scheduling. Not difficult, but if you've never been exposed to that, you'd never get the questions. It was 2 or 3 slam-dunks for me.


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## KEG (Jan 11, 2008)

I also did not pass (EE - power) in October and will be giving it another shot in April. Just wanted you to know you're not the only one. Electronics and controls also doomed me along with silly mistakes. Good luck in April!


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## jdd18vm (Jan 11, 2008)

Well here its is in all its ugliness :rtft: ....takes a lot of pride swallowing to do this...comments (helpful ones) welcome

Basic ELE - Professionalism and Eng. Econ 50%

Basic ELE - Safety and Reliability 67%

Basic ELE - Electric Circuits 40%

Basic ELE - Electric and Magnetic Field Theory and Apps 0%

Basic ELE - Computer Systems and Engr 50%

Electronic, Circuits and Components - Components 50%

Electronic, Circuits and Components - Materials 50%

Controls and Communications Systems 0%

Power - Transmission and Distribution 40%

Power - Rotation Machines and Electromagnetic Devices 67%

General Power - Measure, Instrument and Statistics 50%

General Power - Special Applications 0%

General Power - Codes, Standards, and Special Appls 67%

Circuit Analysis - Analysis 33%

Circuit Analysis - Devices and Power Electronic Circuits 67%

Circuit Analysis - Electric and Magnetic Fields and Applications 100%

Rotating Machines 100%

Electromagnetic Devices 75%

Transmission and Distrib - System Analysis 67%

Transmission and Distrib - Power System Performance 100%

Transmission and Distrib - Protection 25%


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## mudpuppy (Jan 11, 2008)

My analysis in red.



jdd18vm said:


> Well here its is in all its ugliness :rtft: ....takes a lot of pride swallowing to do this...comments (helpful ones) welcome
> Basic ELE - Professionalism and Eng. Econ 50% 1/2
> 
> Basic ELE - Safety and Reliability 67% 2/3
> ...


Kudos on the rotating machines! Obviously you already know controls and communications is a weak area. The other thing that stands out to me is circuit analysis. It is the single biggest area on the AM so you could pick up as many as 6 more questions there, and studying circuits could pay some dividends on the PM as well (in three phase circuits). I personally hate electronics with a passion, so I'd put it a little farther down the priorty list, especially given that it is a smaller overall portion of the exam.

Also, I think there are quite a few of us here that work in Protection so don't be afraid to tap that resource either.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 11, 2008)

John,

That score look pretty similar to my first one. Your numbers are better though. As mentioned on a previous post you just have to be smarter on your study schedule this time. You need to improve the morning and to do that you have to go back to the basis.

Your afternoon is not bad at all and it will only get better. I will look for some problems I have for Control and Communications. Do not have scanned copies but I can do that or mail copies to you. As you wish.

I would also review basic circuits. Do not feel bad. It happened to me like that. I got 0/10!!!!!!! my second try and did great on my on my first. What happened? I made the mistake on working too hard on my weaks areas and did not review my basic ckts skills. I blew it. Do not let that happen to you.

I will see what I have to help with P&amp;C. Again, do not get caught studying complicated things. Re-tune your concepts and basis. The rest will fall by itself.

Let us know what can we do for you.

BIO


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## jdd18vm (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks Mud thats what I came up with as well. Definitely ckt analysis besides the obvious working on that now.

BIO by all mean any problems you have will help. Great advice here and elsewhere about NOT just focusing on the weak.

I never got Six Min Solutions last time its due here any day. Thinking about Testmasters. Jury still out on that.

I'll spare you all my history, but 25 years (sheesh) in design I should have done better protection myself. Hardly recall 4 questions. I have an Architectural degree, re-tune? LOL I had to, still have to, LEARN the fundamentals.

Thanks so much.

John


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## benbo (Jan 12, 2008)

Jim-

Like everyone else says, it looks to me lke you are a power expert, probably because this is the work you actually do. I really believe that it would help a person in your circumstances to try to find some sort of review course somewhere, because they seem to go over the breadth areas a lot - at least mine did. I had forgotten a lot, and if you have an AE degree it's pretty remarkable to do this well. One problem on this test is that I think they draw things in a funny way, and someties it is hard to figre out exactly what the problem is.

Some areas you just can't learn very much. There are some basic things on communications, but there is just no way to predict exactly what they will ask.

But for circuits, controls, and electroncs you can learn methods You just need somebody to teach them to you, because it is tough to learn out of a book.

Like I said in a former post, I struggled all through the first couple of years of school until I learned -

1. A lot of it is voltage and current division. Learn how to recognize this.

2. Learn a good, systematic method for node analysis so you don't get confused on current directions. and polarity You can solve a lot of problems like this, even transfer function and filter probems.

3. Learn and apply the rules for ideal op amps. Don't try to fit it into predefined structures. Just do a nodal analysis at va and vb and set them equal. A lot of time vb will be grounded (you probably already know this).

4. Just like power, a lot of electronics is just going along a path and accounting for voltage and current changes. To me those three phase things are scary looking Don't get scared just because they make you do the same thing on a transistor.

5. Work those 6 min solutions and camara problems until you know them backwards and forwards, as well as the NCEES. If I were you I would skip or drastically reduce the use of the Kaplan on this go round. Since you are already really good enough on the afternoon stuff, probably better to use the clearer references with fewer errors in them.

6. A good reason for taking a good class is that they should give you a lot of representative sample problems to try.

Really, starting with the firm grasp you have on power, and the fact that you are obviously a technically savvy guy, a good teacher could teach you these methods in a day or two at most. I wish it were easier to eplain over the internet, but I think you can get that morning score up you are there.

Your afternoo score is alredy passing, but since you are one of the few that do better with he harder stuff you will likely add a poit or two to that as well.


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## jdd18vm (Jan 12, 2008)

benbo said:


> Jim-Like everyone else says, it looks to me lke you are a power expert, probably because this is the work you actually do. I really believe that it would help a person in your circumstances to try to find some sort of review course somewhere, because they seem to go over the breadth areas a lot - at least mine did. I had forgotten a lot, and if you have an AE degree it's pretty remarkable to do this well. One problem on this test is that I think they draw things in a funny way, and someties it is hard to figre out exactly what the problem is.
> 
> Some areas you just can't learn very much. There are some basic things on communications, but there is just no way to predict exactly what they will ask.
> 
> ...


Thanks Benbo, as always great advice. Im printing this. Its John however, if i were Jim (IFR Pilot) we wouldnt be having thins discussion HEH, is he still around?

But yeah I did a spreadsheet with other EE's scores and I seemed to fair better on the Afternoon as is obvious. But even there the circuit analysis can use improvement. I am looking for some sort of class again, I fear I need live and thats hard to come by..

To Mud, I actually did the USF course as suggested by BIO. That might be why I did as well as I did on Power, HE was awesome. The Controls wow different story..I had to pause the video every 30 secs, no notes no handouts, less impressed with that portion, just seemed way over my head. Electronics was ok, got more out of that but not sure enough. Having seen the exam, its more about the fundamentals as Benbo said.

Back to it...thanks again you guys (and gal). Incidentally Maryannette, I don't think we had a single PM type question on ours. Then again the Econ is supposed to be easy point i missed one of the two there. I know i had AN answer that was given....

John


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## Flyer_PE (Jan 12, 2008)

jdd18vm said:


> Thanks Benbo, as always great advice. Im printing this. Its John however, if i were Jim (IFR Pilot) we wouldnt be having thins discussion HEH, is he still around?


John,

I'm still around. Sorry to hear about your results. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with on the new round of studying.

Jim


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## Art (Jan 20, 2008)

Jim,

from reading your posts, imho you are one of the brighter guys around here...I'm surprised...

on the other hand, if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth anything...

I think you know where to focus, and I have 0 doubt you'll be doing the dance next July...


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## jdd18vm (Jan 26, 2008)

Art said:


> Jim,
> from reading your posts, imho you are one of the brighter guys around here...I'm surprised...
> 
> on the other hand, if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth anything...
> ...


Thanks Art, I appreciate the words of encouragement. Im not sure how I keep getting called Jim, but I am taking that as being confused WITH Jim, therefore I am flattered.

I compared a few other peoples Diagnostic report (did a spreadsheet of course) and generally everyone else did better in the am, i did better in the afternoon.

Being out of school for SO long, and having never really learned this, the morning stuff seems so damn esoteric. Been plugging away, will continue and I hope you are right about July (although here in NC should be June).

I wish I could get a half point for every good thought offered by everyone.

Thanks all, means a lot.

John


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## nst0589 (Jan 28, 2008)

KEG said:


> I also did not pass (EE - power) in October and will be giving it another shot in April. Just wanted you to know you're not the only one. Electronics and controls also doomed me along with silly mistakes. Good luck in April!


My advice to you is to study more of the am. you did very well on the pm power which is very difficult. The am section is much much much easier to study for. Just study it and you will pass. You already got the hard pm part down pat. I passed October 07 PE electrical power test. I figure i got about 30-35 am questions and 15-20 pm questions.


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## indy-engineer (Jan 30, 2008)

Thank you to mudpuppy for helping to analyze the scores. Using your analysis, I was able to determine my score out of 80. That helped a lot!


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## maryannette (Jan 30, 2008)

jdd18vm said:


> Being out of school for SO long, and having never really learned this, ...


Remember, no excuses. I told you I passed last year at the tender age of 49 after not finishing *any *degree and having been out of school for 29 years. I know how hard it is, but you can win this battle. Keep it up.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 31, 2008)

arty-smiley-048:


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