# Is the AISC Seismic Design Manual essential to have for the SE lateral exam?



## Reed D (Jun 6, 2021)

This might sound like a silly question but I am planning to take the SE lateral this October and was wondering if the Seismic Design Manual 3rd edition is a "must have" for the exam? The reason I am asking is when I was studying for the vertical exam I bought the TMS 402/602 and AISI S100 codes which I never used. The steel manual is expensive and was wondering if I can avoid buying it.


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## Duke (Jun 6, 2021)

There will be AM questions that require it and the PM may heavily need it or it may not. You might be able to get by if you have good study reference material AND get lucky on the AM/PM topics but you would be taking a real gamble not having it.


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## E720 (Jun 6, 2021)

In my opinion there are many time saving tables in the SDM. You may be able to get by without it but I think it is way more useful than the masonry codes that you said you didn't use.


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

Is this is a serious question?


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

Let’s go down the line here a bit...

Some of the things you’ll need the SDM for (but not limited to):

1. Anything RBS, and more broadly related to IMF, SMF prequalified connections (unless you roll with a loose copy of AISC 358 randomly)

2. I don’t know, ummm, the specification itself has some relevance, could be useful to say the least

3. The examples problems are nice and great learning tools

4. The specification commentary and the discussions in general in many of the separate sections and chapters is highly useful

5. To me half of this test isn’t just a pump and dump of info but it’s learning the codes, their layouts, how they shine, where they’re terrible...and so on, and frankly, AISC 341 is one of the better overall codes IMO when compared to the others required for the test


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## EBAT75 (Jun 6, 2021)

Without limiting my comments as responses to other comments posted here is how I looked at it.

I do not have the 3rd Edition to be able to pass judgement on its utility for the exam purposes, but from how the codes go from edition to new and improved, I am generally skeptical.

Yes, there are many useful time saving tables between the first and second editions. But the examples were a bit of an overkill. They are not simpler versions as in the first edition which reinforce the application of code rather than voluminous solutions.

I agree the Seismic Specifications and Commentary are much more direct and easier to apply than other codes/specifications. 

Whether spending money on the Third Edition is worth, only the individual can examine the benefit-cost tradeoff, risk, and decide.


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## organix (Jun 6, 2021)

Do you own the 2nd edition and are talking about only the changes between that and the new one? I can’t comment on the differences, but that’s possible to survive with... if you take no SDM at all, very risky imo. I would think it would be difficult to learn the ins and outs of designing the various steel LFRSs without it.


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## Reed D (Jun 6, 2021)

organix said:


> Do you own the 2nd edition and are talking about only the changes between that and the new one? I can’t comment on the differences, but that’s possible to survive with... if you take no SDM at all, very risky imo. I would think it would be difficult to learn the ins and outs of designing the various steel LFRSs without it.


No, I don't own the 2nd edition. thank you for asking. I should have provided a little more explanation. 

I haven't done any steel seismic design before so I really have no clue how much the SDM is needed for the lateral exam. I know there is no way to pass the vertical without the AISC 14th but I wasn't sure if this is the case for the SDM for the lateral exam. I just wanted to make sure that it's a must have code before I buy it. It looks like it is. Thank you all for the responses.


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

If you’re gonna skip a code, a very compelling argument for the TMS can be made as well as the AISI. That said, the remaining ones are non negotiable and there will be (well almost certainly will be) straight look up questions out of the SDM. 

Also, and not to beat a dead horse, given your light steel seimic background, I’d recommend the SDM just to read the discussions on R=3 systems, learning about Ry, and expected strengths and so on. It’s worth it.

It does suck that the 3rd edition is printed on basically Kleenex and has a soft cover now but whatya gonna do.


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

EBAT75 said:


> Without limiting my comments as responses to other comments posted here is how I looked at it.
> 
> I do not have the 3rd Edition to be able to pass judgement on its utility for the exam purposes, but from how the codes go from edition to new and improved, I am generally skeptical.
> 
> ...


One last point — you’re correct, the examples are long. So what I did was I outlined them, each example has its number, bold sub headings and italicized non bold sub sub headings…. Which begs for an outline format so when you need to check a very specific application of a thing … it’ll be very findable.


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## Engineerbabu (Jun 6, 2021)

The short and sweet answer is YES!


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## kevo_55 (Jun 6, 2021)

Just as an FYI, there is now a new variable in the new seismic specifications. 

I've been using the new manual for almost a year now. It is similar to the 2nd edition but when it comes to taking the SE exam, don't cheap out or else you'll be kicking yourself.

Plus, if you are an AISC member, I think you can get a 15th edition manual plus the new 3rd edition seismic design manual for $300. Well worth it IMO.

Oh and I'm not a fan of the softcover. Damn you AISC!


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

kevo_55 said:


> Just as an FYI, there is now a new variable in the new seismic specifications.
> 
> I've been using the new manual for almost a year now. It is similar to the 2nd edition but when it comes to taking the SE exam, don't cheap out or else you'll be kicking yourself.
> 
> ...


I can deal with the soft cover but the unhighlightable pages makes me hate hate hate it, oh yea, Ec is it? Something like that? Finally a variable for the mysterious catch all of “….or whatever the system can deliver”


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## kevo_55 (Jun 6, 2021)

No, it's an "alpha" term. It's used in different systems for certain force terms.

Still, in practice I don't see the point in the "system can deliver" part of the code. You may get slightly heavier steel and more robust connections. You are still on the hook if anything goes south. Too bad you can't hide behind codes. Thanks lawyers!


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## Titleistguy (Jun 6, 2021)

kevo_55 said:


> No, it's an "alpha" term. It's used in different systems for certain force terms.
> 
> Still, in practice I don't see the point in the "system can deliver" part of the code. You may get slightly heavier steel and more robust connections. You are still on the hook if anything goes south. Too bad you can't hide behind codes. Thanks lawyers!


Yeaaaaaaa that’s what it is. Ec may be asce7-16 diaphragm thing or something, haven’t really done any prep yet, I guess I’m naively hoping I pass this time but completely agree on the system bit…. One of those vague off ramps (or on ramp depending lol) that the code gives for itself to hide behind I think lol!


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## EBAT75 (Jun 7, 2021)

_"I haven't done any steel seismic design before so I really have no clue how much the SDM is needed for the lateral exam."_

Sorry, this may sound a bit harsh, but why are we then even having a discussion?


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## Reverse Polish (Jun 7, 2021)

Reed D said:


> This might sound like a silly question but I am planning to take the SE lateral this October and was wondering if the Seismic Design Manual 3rd edition is a "must have" for the exam? The reason I am asking is when I was studying for the vertical exam I bought the TMS 402/602 and AISI S100 codes which I never used. The steel manual is expensive and was wondering if I can avoid buying it.



My take is this: Even at regular (non-AISC member) price, the Seismic Design Manual is still cheaper than the $500 it will cost to take the exam again. Given that the bulk of the lateral exam is seismic material--and a good chunk of that is expected to be structural steel--there's no excuse for not having the reference. I see that as part of the responsibility of being a licensed Structural Engineer.


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## GataGunna (Jun 7, 2021)

yes.jpeg


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## E720 (Jun 7, 2021)

EBAT75 said:


> _"I haven't done any steel seismic design before so I really have no clue how much the SDM is needed for the lateral exam."_
> 
> Sorry, this may sound a bit harsh, but why are we then even having a discussion?


@Reed D asked a legitimate question for someone who hasn't done seismic design in steel before - no need to rake them through the coals for asking a question.


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## Br_Engr (Jun 7, 2021)

I have never dealt with these folks, but here is a cheap option:





AISC 327-18A


Seismic Design Manual, 3rd Ed.




www.techstreet.com


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## Reverse Polish (Jun 7, 2021)

Note that AISC 341--the real meat and potatoes of the Seismic Design Manual--is available as a free download:



https://www.aisc.org/globalassets/aisc/publications/standards/aisc-341-16_january-2020.pdf



Personally, I found the examples in the print version of the SDM to be invaluable for obtaining a grasp on seismic detailing requirements. You can also purchase SEAOC SSDM Vol. 4, which is very helpful for high-seismic design in structural steel. Discount through NCSEA if you're a member of your local Structural Engineers Association.


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## E720 (Jun 7, 2021)

+ AISC 358



https://www.aisc.org/globalassets/aisc/publications/standards/A358-16W.pdf


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## Reed D (Jun 8, 2021)

E720 said:


> @Reed D asked a legitimate question for someone who hasn't done seismic design in steel before - no need to rake them through the coals for asking a question.


Thank you


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## EBAT75 (Jun 10, 2021)

E720 said:


> @Reed D asked a legitimate question for someone who hasn't done seismic design in steel before - no need to rake them through the coals for asking a question.


One way to convince the questioner of the high importance involved. Nothing more than that.


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## melonzai (Dec 28, 2021)

I came out the same question when I started to review the SE steel part recently. One of my friend (building discipline) who passed the later exam strongly suggested me to go over all examples in the Seismic Design Manual. But when I looked into several examples, I felt it is too deep for me. Also, spending too much time in one topic seems not practical. I am taking the bridge exam. So I only need to worry about those questions in the AM portion. Any suggestions how to effectively study the steel part or how to tab the seismic design manual?


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## dlegofan (Dec 28, 2021)

melonzai said:


> how to effectively study the steel part


the answer is:


melonzai said:


> go over all examples in the Seismic Design Manual


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## Be-n (Dec 29, 2021)

I agree, most of the examples in SDM are way too deep. The examples is not what makes this manual very important. If you have a different sources of examples such as AEI class, you should be ok. I still covered some of the examples in SDM but only as a brief review, not working through an entire problem. 
The seismic tables for steel design and prequalified connections in the end of the SDM are essential for successfully passing the lateral exam.


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