# just graduated, any advice? civil



## pavell

hey guys i just graduated with a Bachelors in Civil engineering. I am now officially on the job market and having trouble in both sectors because I dont have any experience

But due to no experience I'm having some trouble finding a job. I had a job interview today but they did not like the fact that I haven't done a civil engineering internship. I have have talked to 5-7 companies asking to volunteer my time to learn and have been rejected at every one they said they could not support a volunteer.

I have been accepted to an MS program in civil engineering for spring 2011; it would take 2 years. im thinking about doing it to try to wait out the job market; although i am scared about having a bachelor and masters in civil and graduating in 2012 with no experience. My family says there is no value on education and this is the best time to be in school; it very very hard for an entry level civil engineer right now.

Any advice for a young engineer?


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## Santiagj

Employers are being picky right now. I suggest trying to find an inspector type job to get your foot in the door. When I was a junior I worked as a soil technician.

I also suggest stearing away from land development since that area is completely saturated with experienced engineers looking for work.


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## wilheldp_PE

What did you do during the summers of your undergrad? That is when you are supposed to gain the valuable engineering intern experience that helps you get a job when you graduate. I know it's too late to go back and do that now, I'm just curious why you didn't do it.

The masters might not be a bad idea if you make sure to get an internship for 1 or 2 semesters of the program. That will not only help you get in the door of a firm, but it also gets you experience to move on to other firms.


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## picusld

Work on your interviewing skills.

If you talked to 5-7 companies, I am guessing that they saw your resume before you walked in the door and knew that you had no experience. For them to bring that up as an excuse not to hire you would signal to me that you blew the interview and they are looking for an easy way out.

Would also recomend a head hunter looking for you. I know that there are people that have not had good luck with them, but I don't see how it can hurt.

Edit

Also, If you have the time to wait and I willing to relocate, I would also apply for for every federal job that I could find if you have the stomach for it. Their total compensation package is far greater than anything you will find in the private industry.


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## FusionWhite

I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.

The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.

You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.


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## snickerd3

FusionWhite said:


> I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.
> The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.
> 
> You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.


I was in the same situation as fusionwhite (also chemical), but I'm still with my the state environmental protection agency...just getting paid way more than when I started. States start you off very low, but the benefits are usually really nice.

I'd say work on the masters and keep looking for jobs. You can always scale back the grad school to part time if you find a job.


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## Capt Worley PE

pavell said:


> Any advice for a young engineer?


1) Buy low, sell high

2) Never play cards with a man named Pops, never eat at a place called Ma's

3) Never say no to a man named Guido

4) Bluebell to place in the fifth.


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## navyasw02

Join the military, best thing I ever did. You could probably get into civil engineering in the Navy. If you love it, you stay until you get a pension which is something that I'm pretty sure is on the endangered species list these days. If you hate it, you get out when your time is up and employers will come looking for you, even in this economy.


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## who knows

snickerd3 said:


> FusionWhite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.
> The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.
> 
> You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.
> 
> 
> 
> I was in the same situation as fusionwhite (also chemical), but I'm still with my the state environmental protection agency...just getting paid way more than when I started. States start you off very low, but the benefits are usually really nice.
> 
> I'd say work on the masters and keep looking for jobs. You can always scale back the grad school to part time if you find a job.
Click to expand...


All I can say is never give up on your job search. However, have realistic alternatives (combination of full-time job search, grad school prospects, setting up your own business, changing career etc) with realistic timelines/deadlines and you will be surprised at the level of control you have over your destiny instead of letting this *merciless economy *and *greedy private sector tightwads *dictate your life/career. Trust me I have been unemployed for the past 16 months (after finishing my MS Civil/Struct Eng degree) and just when I was getting ready to make a major career switch, a better Civil Eng offer came up. Because of the realistic deadlines I set for myself, I had enough time to think this through before accepting the job offer. Remember, you control your destiny although the system will make you think otherwise. It is not about where you start from but rather, where you are going!


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## IL-SE

Have you considered construction management? It's a good way to get some related experience even if it's not design.


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## ironman

You can pull up the state list of Civil PE's and send them letters (since phone numbers are generally not listed), thats how I got my job under a PE and tested for my own PE. Join the national civil engineering society (for chemical engineerings its AIChE, not sure what civil is). I hear you with the internships though, internships were harder to get than full time jobs out of school, you were competing with kids that had affluent parents with industry connections or the 4.0 students and all that mess, once out of school thoes factors become less and less so dont let people rag on you about the internships, internships were like finding a gold vein in your back yard accidently with your roto tiller.

I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.

A masters is a good idea only if you dont have undergrad debt and you dont have to go into debt for the masters and can still maintain some semblance of a quality of life (car, spending money, etc).


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## benbo

ironman said:


> I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.


I'd be careful referring to this post for ethics advice. It's one thing framing periods of absence from the work force in the best possible light, it's another making up things out of whole cloth.


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## navyasw02

benbo said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be careful referring to this post for ethics advice. It's one thing framing periods of absence from the work force in the best possible light, it's another making up things out of whole cloth.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it's perfectly understandable in this economy to just be straightforward with your unemployment and just say you couldnt get a job.

I also wouldn't recommend cold calling PE's by sending letters to them like ironman suggested. #1 it's a lot of stamps, and #2 a lot of people dont appreciate getting "Please hire me" letters sent to my home from a complete and total stranger. Personally, I don't think that people's home addresses should be listed on their licenses, but maybe there's a good reason for it.


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## wilheldp_PE

Taking any advice from ironman (rppearso) is not a good idea...especially on ethics or job hunting.


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## benbo

wilheldp_PE said:


> Taking any advice from ironman (rppearso) is not a good idea...especially on ethics or job hunting.


True. His specialties are grammar and spelling.


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## ironman

All im saying is it worked for me. You can also network through your professional society or a local PE society. As far as the unemployment issue, some companies will not hire you unless you currantly have a job, I have read articles on it, there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now, and you have to do what you have to do to survive and thrive. If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews. Jobs I have seen before that required 4-5 years experience now require 8 for the same pay AND you must already have a job.

Also if you are old you better lie about your high school graduation date, unless you want to be unemployed for another 12 months, in this economy when you become unemployed your toast, it will likely take you 18 months to find a new job in some far off state or over seas. It is dog eat dog right now. Also making up things for gaps in experience is easier if you already have experience because you know what to make up and what wont get to much attention, after about 4-5 years in any given industry you pretty much know all the lingo have worked every aspect of the business and are just as capable as a 10 year guy, after 4-5 years you are just logging time and grade. You can make up some mundane thing that you did over seas for a brief period that will not attract attention and tell them you dont want them knowing your looking for a job (and have back up references). Making up an internship is probably bad juju because employers will be like wow what was it like what did you learn and it will be nearly impossible to come up with a believable reason as to why they can not contact your internship employer.

Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now you are in no mans land while people are eating each other alive for a good job. If you have to offend a few people sending letters to a personal residence so be it, its not like their mail box is over flowing with letters your letter will probably be their first one, yea its a little steep on the stamps so you have to maybe pick a batch, for me it was easy because there were only 90 PE's of my disipline in the state, still a decent amount of stamps but not insurmountable. You might even be able to apply for welfare or state aid to help pay for things like the stamps or other job hunting tools.

If you can hide out in grad school for a few years without incuring any debt or living on ramen that might be your best bet and then reassess in 2 years, Everything is going to hinge on the Nov elections and what the new gov does regarding NAFTA and in/out/H1visa/illegal immigration sourcing thats what is killing our economy right now.

Make sure you get out and vote for someone other than an incumbant. Another bad round of politicians is going to litterally take food out of our mouths.


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## wilheldp_PE

ironman said:


> If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.


That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.



ironman said:


> you better lie


Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?


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## ironman

wilheldp_PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> you better lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?
Click to expand...

If you have suggestions that carry weight and produce job results then you should post them and help this guy out, I have done alot of homework and I know what employers are doing in this economy (checking face book pages, etc, which is why I changed my email on my resume and have a professional logo and dont have facebook). This has nothing to do with state boards as we are not talking about stamping anything. Giving general advice is good for long range planning but does not help you keep from being homeless or starving, being unemployed for 12-18 months is not a joke and thats the reality of alot of unemployed people right now, engineers are not immune. Also as a new grad he does not have any real unemployment bennies. I am sorry if some of you are trying to ignore the seriousness of the reality of the economy and this situation but for thoes caught in it its not a joke about run on sentences.


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## navyasw02

ironman said:


> All im saying is it worked for me. You can also network through your professional society or a local PE society. As far as the unemployment issue, some companies will not hire you unless you currantly have a job, I have read articles on it, there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now, and you have to do what you have to do to survive and thrive. If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews. Jobs I have seen before that required 4-5 years experience now require 8 for the same pay AND you must already have a job.
> Also if you are old you better lie about your high school graduation date, unless you want to be unemployed for another 12 months, in this economy when you become unemployed your toast, it will likely take you 18 months to find a new job in some far off state or over seas. It is dog eat dog right now. Also making up things for gaps in experience is easier if you already have experience because you know what to make up and what wont get to much attention, after about 4-5 years in any given industry you pretty much know all the lingo have worked every aspect of the business and are just as capable as a 10 year guy, after 4-5 years you are just logging time and grade. You can make up some mundane thing that you did over seas for a brief period that will not attract attention and tell them you dont want them knowing your looking for a job (and have back up references). Making up an internship is probably bad juju because employers will be like wow what was it like what did you learn and it will be nearly impossible to come up with a believable reason as to why they can not contact your internship employer.
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now you are in no mans land while people are eating each other alive for a good job. If you have to offend a few people sending letters to a personal residence so be it, its not like their mail box is over flowing with letters your letter will probably be their first one, yea its a little steep on the stamps so you have to maybe pick a batch, for me it was easy because there were only 90 PE's of my disipline in the state, still a decent amount of stamps but not insurmountable. You might even be able to apply for welfare or state aid to help pay for things like the stamps or other job hunting tools.
> 
> If you can hide out in grad school for a few years without incuring any debt or living on ramen that might be your best bet and then reassess in 2 years, Everything is going to hinge on the Nov elections and what the new gov does regarding NAFTA and in/out/H1visa/illegal immigration sourcing thats what is killing our economy right now.
> 
> Make sure you get out and vote for someone other than an incumbant. Another bad round of politicians is going to litterally take food out of our mouths.


I agree with you, it's tough out there, but it's not worth lying on your resume about. If/when your employer finds out, that'll definitely get you canned. Once your integrity is questioned about your career, they'll start questioning everything you do or have ever done.

If I got a letter in the mail asking for a job, I'd probably be a little weirded out. What next, a rabbit in a pot? Kinda creepy.

PS - the . key is located right between , and /. It works great and makes your posts legible.


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## who knows

ironman said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> you better lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you have suggestions that carry weight and produce job results then you should post them and help this guy out, I have done alot of homework and I know what employers are doing in this economy (checking face book pages, etc, which is why I changed my email on my resume and have a professional logo and dont have facebook). This has nothing to do with state boards as we are not talking about stamping anything. Giving general advice is good for long range planning but does not help you keep from being homeless or starving, being unemployed for 12-18 months is not a joke and thats the reality of alot of unemployed people right now, engineers are not immune. Also as a new grad he does not have any real unemployment bennies. I am sorry if some of you are trying to ignore the seriousness of the reality of the economy and this situation but for thoes caught in it its not a joke about run on sentences.
Click to expand...

Guys, what this new grad is going through is real. These are true stories that you can easily hear being told in everybody's backyard nowadays irrespective of how far you are in your Engineering career. It is good that we are debating this topic by offering advice as well critiquing what others have to say to this new grad. There is a lot of sense in what ironman is saying to a large degree although some portions are questionable.

There is a saying where I come from that goes like this: If you find your neighbor's beard on fire, you better go fetch some cold water and have it ready by your side"; this is because you will never know when a flick from his fire might set your beard on fire.

There are alot of homeless people out there with college degrees, trust me!


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## navyasw02

who knows said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> you better lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you have suggestions that carry weight and produce job results then you should post them and help this guy out, I have done alot of homework and I know what employers are doing in this economy (checking face book pages, etc, which is why I changed my email on my resume and have a professional logo and dont have facebook). This has nothing to do with state boards as we are not talking about stamping anything. Giving general advice is good for long range planning but does not help you keep from being homeless or starving, being unemployed for 12-18 months is not a joke and thats the reality of alot of unemployed people right now, engineers are not immune. Also as a new grad he does not have any real unemployment bennies. I am sorry if some of you are trying to ignore the seriousness of the reality of the economy and this situation but for thoes caught in it its not a joke about run on sentences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guys, what this new grad is going through is real. These are true stories that you can easily hear being told in everybody's backyard nowadays irrespective of how far you are in your Engineering career. It is good that we are debating this topic by offering advice as well critiquing what others have to say to this new grad. There is a lot of sense in what ironman is saying to a large degree although some portions are questionable.
> 
> There is a saying where I come from that goes like this: If you find your neighbor's beard on fire, you better go fetch some cold water and have it ready by your side"; this is because you will never know when a flick from his fire might set your beard on fire.
> 
> There are alot of homeless people out there with college degrees, trust me!
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying and I agree with both you and ironman that it's tough out there and the job market sucks, but that's still no excuse to lie on your resume or violate people's privacy to get a job. I would argue that the plight of the new grad is far easier than that of someone with experience and got laid off. A new grad doesn't have a mortgage, kids, etc that tie someone to a geographical area, doesn't have a real reason not to work wacky shifts if necessary from a job, and doesn't have the problem of being overqualified for positions. It sucks, but sometimes people just need to lower their expectations for their first job.


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## IlPadrino

ironman said:


> there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now


I should be adding fuel to the fire... but sometimes I can't resist!

What is "unscrupulous" (yeah, you spelled it wrong) about a hiring practice that considered experience or past history? And surely you see the irony of the pot calling the kettle black.


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## benbo

> There is a lot of sense in what ironman is saying to a large degree although some portions are questionable.


Let's just say that if you knew anything about ironman you probably wouldn't post this.


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## mrt406

wilheldp_PE said:


> Taking any advice from ironman (rppearso) is not a good idea...especially on ethics or job hunting.




While I agree that his posts are good for entertainment, it would be nice if there could be a disclaimer automatically generated underneath every single one of them.


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## jmbeck

pavell said:


> Any advice for a young engineer?


Don't limit your possibilities. Look at relocations, even in places you don't want to be. It may only be for a short time at worst, and at best you find a place you never imagined you'd be this happy. I think there are a few places in Atlanta, GA that are hiring new grads.

In interviews, don't sell yourself short or apologize for a lack of experience. This is a fine line, because you don't want to sound cocky either. Certainly you have a reason for not accepting/pursuing/receiving an internship in college. If asked, explain succinctly what that reason is. Try to talk to one of your strengths that may offset not typing minutes/learning basic CAD/surfing the internet, because it my experience that is all most companies do with an intern anyway. (Don't bring that up. My point is that most people with an internship didn't gain invaluable experience.)

Never, *EVER *compromise your character. While they may not be immediate, there are always repercussions. A clear conscious is worth more than a career ever will be. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. I'm looking at you, ironman.


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## Chucktown PE

ironman said:


> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....


This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.

As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.


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## picusld

Chucktown PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...

As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.

Something to consider...


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## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> All im saying is it worked for me. You can also network through your professional society or a local PE society. As far as the unemployment issue, some companies will not hire you unless you currantly have a job, I have read articles on it, there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now, and you have to do what you have to do to survive and thrive. If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews. Jobs I have seen before that required 4-5 years experience now require 8 for the same pay AND you must already have a job.
> Also if you are old you better lie about your high school graduation date, unless you want to be unemployed for another 12 months, in this economy when you become unemployed your toast, it will likely take you 18 months to find a new job in some far off state or over seas. It is dog eat dog right now. Also making up things for gaps in experience is easier if you already have experience because you know what to make up and what wont get to much attention, after about 4-5 years in any given industry you pretty much know all the lingo have worked every aspect of the business and are just as capable as a 10 year guy, after 4-5 years you are just logging time and grade. You can make up some mundane thing that you did over seas for a brief period that will not attract attention and tell them you dont want them knowing your looking for a job (and have back up references). Making up an internship is probably bad juju because employers will be like wow what was it like what did you learn and it will be nearly impossible to come up with a believable reason as to why they can not contact your internship employer.
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now you are in no mans land while people are eating each other alive for a good job. If you have to offend a few people sending letters to a personal residence so be it, its not like their mail box is over flowing with letters your letter will probably be their first one, yea its a little steep on the stamps so you have to maybe pick a batch, for me it was easy because there were only 90 PE's of my disipline in the state, still a decent amount of stamps but not insurmountable. You might even be able to apply for welfare or state aid to help pay for things like the stamps or other job hunting tools.
> 
> If you can hide out in grad school for a few years without incuring any debt or living on ramen that might be your best bet and then reassess in 2 years, Everything is going to hinge on the Nov elections and what the new gov does regarding NAFTA and in/out/H1visa/illegal immigration sourcing thats what is killing our economy right now.
> 
> Make sure you get out and vote for someone other than an incumbant. Another bad round of politicians is going to litterally take food out of our mouths.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you, it's tough out there, but it's not worth lying on your resume about. If/when your employer finds out, that'll definitely get you canned. Once your integrity is questioned about your career, they'll start questioning everything you do or have ever done.
> 
> If I got a letter in the mail asking for a job, I'd probably be a little weirded out. What next, a rabbit in a pot? Kinda creepy.
> 
> PS - the . key is located right between , and /. It works great and makes your posts legible.
Click to expand...

Yea thats true fabricating experience is a tough call, but what do you do when your unemployment is going on 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months when we all know full well that employers practice unemployment discrimination. Of course fabricating 4 months experience is alot different than fabricating 18 months of experience, so maybe being enrolled for at least 3-6 credits in grad school is the best bet to avoid that conundrum that way you can just say I was in school and 3 credits would be relativly inexpensive so your not going in the hole over it and hope to God you can stay with family.


----------



## ironman

Chucktown PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
Click to expand...

The mommy and daddy connection was in relation to the internship not your first job, internships are ULTRA competitive (I would say worse than trying to get a meaningful scholarship) so NOT having one under your belt is pretty standard. Most kids dont get internships without some sort of connection or an ultra high GPA (slightly under a 4.0 would probably get you there).

I was wrong about fabricating experience and I apologize for that recommendation, but I would still do everything possible to avoid gaps in employment (go to school, join a mission, peace corps, etc). As far as the national guard it might not be a bad deal if they were not deploying people overseas still (the federal gov has been treating national guard like the reserves for the last 10 years or longer), you could find yourself in a situation you did not bargin for just for some student loan pay offs, you may be paying alot higher balance in terms of quality of life than your student loan ballance (I guess if your student loans were in the 6 figures I could see it). The military is not a job, its a way of life, even if you dont re up your still under contract for 8 years and while they have eased up on the stop loss you need to expect to be in for 8 years.

Unfortunatly for over seas engineering positions that pay the legendary overseas bucks (180-200k) you need at least 10 years experience, but you could look into it.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> Yea thats true fabricating experience is a tough call, but what do you do when your unemployment is going on 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months when we all know full well that employers practice unemployment discrimination. Of course fabricating 4 months experience is alot different than fabricating 18 months of experience, so maybe being enrolled for at least 3-6 credits in grad school is the best bet to avoid that conundrum that way you can just say I was in school and 3 credits would be relativly inexpensive so your not going in the hole over it and hope to God you can stay with family.


I agree, employers will hold that against you, but if you have a situation where a company practices like that, then it's probably not a job you want anyway. If they're a company that does that for new hires, just think of how they screw over employees.

The first job you have out of school is usually the crummy little bitch job, not the ideal dream job that you want. They may flower it up a bit in the job description, but bottom line is you're the junior man and you're going to get all the crap that experienced guys dont want to do. They're also going to look to overload you work wise and under pay you because that's the reality right now. Keep your head down, grind it out, and pay your dues.


----------



## ironman

picusld said:


> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
Click to expand...

No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.


----------



## roadwreck

ironman said:


> The mommy and daddy connection was in relation to the internship not your first job, internships are ULTRA competitive (I would say worse than trying to get a meaningful scholarship) so NOT having one under your belt is pretty standard. Most kids dont get internships without some sort of connection or an ultra high GPA (slightly under a 4.0 would probably get you there).


I would say more often than not internships/work experience while in school has nothing to do with mommy/daddy or GPA. I know of plenty of people who got relevant work experience while they were in school and it had nothing to do with their GPA or parents. However, maybe my situation was slightly different as my college stressed heavily the importance of gaining work experience before graduating. Internships are out there for students, if they are willing to look and work for them. To get one you have to treat the process as though you were looking for full-time work. A lot of students don't have the drive to do that.

That said, it still doesn't help the OP. Jobs are going to be more difficult to come by right now, I don't believe that is b/c companies are plotting against perspective employees, I think it's purely a function of supply and demand rather then a corporate conspiracy. In many cases companies are not looking to hire new employees, which leaves a surplus of perspective employees out their for them to choose from when a company does want to hire. This means that company can be more choosy about the candidate they select and they can offer them less compensation then they would in a more competitive market.

In a sea of other perspective employees the only way a person is going to get hired over everyone else is to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack. You have to stand out. How you go about that will vary from situation to situation, but you have to figure out what is going to get you noticed (in a positive way) and do that.

P.S. - ironman, perhaps you could help pavell out. If he gets his pilots license you could hire him as your pilot.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
Click to expand...

Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea thats true fabricating experience is a tough call, but what do you do when your unemployment is going on 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months when we all know full well that employers practice unemployment discrimination. Of course fabricating 4 months experience is alot different than fabricating 18 months of experience, so maybe being enrolled for at least 3-6 credits in grad school is the best bet to avoid that conundrum that way you can just say I was in school and 3 credits would be relativly inexpensive so your not going in the hole over it and hope to God you can stay with family.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, employers will hold that against you, but if you have a situation where a company practices like that, then it's probably not a job you want anyway. If they're a company that does that for new hires, just think of how they screw over employees.
> 
> The first job you have out of school is usually the crummy little bitch job, not the ideal dream job that you want. They may flower it up a bit in the job description, but bottom line is you're the junior man and you're going to get all the crap that experienced guys dont want to do. They're also going to look to overload you work wise and under pay you because that's the reality right now. Keep your head down, grind it out, and pay your dues.
Click to expand...

Yep I agree, BUT dont expect your dues to ever be paid. The new reality we are approaching is hard work and low pay in order to compete with the 2nd and 3rd world, this has nothing to do with "paying your dues" in the traditional sense of working in the mail room and working your way up, now days you can rot in the mail room, this is the new reality we all need to get used to. Unless you have some extra ordinary skill or patent as well as a ton of money to hold out this is the new USA .


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
Click to expand...

They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.


----------



## ironman

roadwreck said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mommy and daddy connection was in relation to the internship not your first job, internships are ULTRA competitive (I would say worse than trying to get a meaningful scholarship) so NOT having one under your belt is pretty standard. Most kids dont get internships without some sort of connection or an ultra high GPA (slightly under a 4.0 would probably get you there).
> 
> 
> 
> I would say more often than not internships/work experience while in school has nothing to do with mommy/daddy or GPA. I know of plenty of people who got relevant work experience while they were in school and it had nothing to do with their GPA or parents. However, maybe my situation was slightly different as my college stressed heavily the importance of gaining work experience before graduating. Internships are out there for students, if they are willing to look and work for them. To get one you have to treat the process as though you were looking for full-time work. A lot of students don't have the drive to do that.
> 
> That said, it still doesn't help the OP. Jobs are going to be more difficult to come by right now, I don't believe that is b/c companies are plotting against perspective employees, I think it's purely a function of supply and demand rather then a corporate conspiracy. In many cases companies are not looking to hire new employees, which leaves a surplus of perspective employees out their for them to choose from when a company does want to hire. This means that company can be more choosy about the candidate they select and they can offer them less compensation then they would in a more competitive market.
> 
> In a sea of other perspective employees the only way a person is going to get hired over everyone else is to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack. You have to stand out. How you go about that will vary from situation to situation, but you have to figure out what is going to get you noticed (in a positive way) and do that.
> 
> P.S. - ironman, perhaps you could help pavell out. If he gets his pilots license you could hire him as your pilot.
Click to expand...

I believe companies lobbyed for things like NAFTA and other overseas free trade agreements because they knew it would create a glut of people trying to complete with overseas workers and "engineers" thus driving wages down and taking competetion for jobs to an unhealthy level. I dont think anyone realizes how close this nation is to revolution, everyone is hoping for the Nov elections to clean this mess up otherwise we are in way more trouble than some of you seem to realize and seem to be glossing over how serious these competition issues are, after all if things degrade so far competition really reduces to how well you can dodge bullets and return fire. You just hope that you have enough resources that you dont have to be part of the group that is forced to fire the first shots but that you dont have so much that you are a target. I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.

I guess it makes more sense to joke about it and play it off as normal job competition that way you can sleep at night, I just think about my E&amp;M class for my MS and hang out with my fiance as God has blessed me but this nation is a ticking time bomb.


----------



## roadwreck

ironman said:


> I believe companies lobbyed for things like NAFTA and other overseas free trade agreements because they knew it would create a glut of people trying to complete with overseas workers and "engineers" thus driving wages down and taking competetion for jobs to an unhealthy level. I dont think anyone realizes how close this nation is to revolution, everyone is hoping for the Nov elections to clean this mess up otherwise we are in way more trouble than some of you seem to realize and seem to be glossing over how serious these competition issues are, after all if things degrade so far competition really reduces to how well you can dodge bullets and return fire. You just hope that you have enough resources that you dont have to be part of the group that is forced to fire the first shots but that you dont have so much that you are a target. I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.
> I guess it makes more sense to joke about it and play it off as normal job competition that way you can sleep at night, I just think about my E&amp;M class for my MS and hang out with my fiance as God has blessed me but this nation is a ticking time bomb.


you sure you aren't holed away in some little cabin writing a manifesto?

edit: and this from the same person who thinks that if you aren't making six figures as an engineer you may as well be digging ditches for a living.


----------



## Road Guy

all praise 5.9 figure jobs!


----------



## wilheldp_PE

ironman said:


> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever.


I know that several members of this forum have changed jobs in the last couple of years, some were forced to, some were not. Others have been interviewing and getting job offers just as bargaining chips to secure raises with their current employers. I, for one, have changed jobs twice since the Great Recession started, the most recent of which was June of this year. I think you just might be getting passed over for positions due to lack of intelligence, sense of entitlement, and/or lying on your resume/interviews. You like to point the finger at the economy, illegal immigrants and elsewhere, but you never seem to point the finger at yourself.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.
Click to expand...

Work visas are part of the global economy. There's nothing illegal or wrong about it. There's plenty of Americans working abroad as well.


----------



## benbo

ironman said:


> I guess it makes more sense to joke about it


Your very first idea that I agree with!

Q: What happened when ironhead went to Mount Olive?

A: Popeye beat him up.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.


50% on public assistance? Really? What defines public assistance, the Bush Tax cuts of 2001?


----------



## MGX

I'd just like to chime in a say lying is bad. Very, very bad. Earning yourself a bad name will follow you around for a very long time and people will never forget it so it's best to never lie, especially on a resume about qualifications and experience.

Personally I know names of such people and they've never recovered. Once people catch wind of your character they'll avoid you like plague.

So lying is bad...mmmkay?


----------



## Dleg

A few suggestions for the original poster:

1. Agree on the military suggestion, if that's something you are able and willing to do. Try to get into the Navy! (my outsider opinion only)

2. Grad school right now might not be a bad option, if it's all lined up for you anyway. You'll probably look back at this opportunity and wish that you had gotten it out of the way if you don't do it now (trust me on that one  ).

3. Peace Corps - they'll take you, you'll get experience (of all kinds), and it intrigues some employers. Plus, you get one year (?) of bonus consideration for federal jobs - I think either additional preference points, or even non-competitive selection elegibility. I know several former Peace Corps engineers, and they're either good engineers, or good something-elses (seems at least 25% of them end up as teachers or other professions after finishing their time).


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Work visas are part of the global economy. There's nothing illegal or wrong about it. There's plenty of Americans working abroad as well.
Click to expand...

There becomes something wrong with it if the economy sucks and americans cant find jobs. We will see what happens in Nov and what ever happens happens and we just have to do the best we can to survive, but the boom times are over thats for sure


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> 50% on public assistance? Really? What defines public assistance, the Bush Tax cuts of 2001?
Click to expand...

Not trying to be rude but have you been out on a boat for the last 2 years, things are REALLY bad right now.


----------



## ironman

wilheldp_PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> I know that several members of this forum have changed jobs in the last couple of years, some were forced to, some were not. Others have been interviewing and getting job offers just as bargaining chips to secure raises with their current employers. I, for one, have changed jobs twice since the Great Recession started, the most recent of which was June of this year. *I think you just might be getting passed over for positions due to lack of intelligence, sense of entitlement, and/or lying on your resume/interviews.* You like to point the finger at the economy, illegal immigrants and elsewhere, but you never seem to point the finger at yourself.
Click to expand...

Yea I tried to get counter offers to secure raises but nothing came of it. I have put ALOT of effort into my professional carrer (eng degree, PE, outsanding letters of reference, and a solid resume (with changed email). I am thinking its because my market is small and my degree is more specialized. Do you get off on making unproductive nasty comments in bold, I never understood that mentality.


----------



## ironman

MGX said:


> I'd just like to chime in a say lying is bad. Very, very bad. Earning yourself a bad name will follow you around for a very long time and people will never forget it so it's best to never lie, especially on a resume about qualifications and experience.
> Personally I know names of such people and they've never recovered. Once people catch wind of your character they'll avoid you like plague.
> 
> So lying is bad...mmmkay?


Yes I agree, I was wrong.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

ironman said:


> Do you get off on making unproductive nasty comments in bold, I never understood that mentality.


Only to the extent that you get off on making barely comprehensible, rambling posts with scores of grammatical errors and bad advice.


----------



## ironman

wilheldp_PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you get off on making unproductive nasty comments in bold, I never understood that mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to the extent that you get off on making barely comprehensible, rambling posts with scores of grammatical errors and bad advice.
Click to expand...

I agree making up experience to fill gaps is not a good idea. As far as the grammer, its a message board not a PhD thesis so sue me.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> 50% on public assistance? Really? What defines public assistance, the Bush Tax cuts of 2001?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not trying to be rude but have you been out on a boat for the last 2 years, things are REALLY bad right now.
Click to expand...

So I guess this isn't valid since you cant provide a source.

I'm still in the Navy, and have been for 12 years. My wife has to change jobs EVERY 2-3 years when I get new orders. I know how tough it is to see my wife make half of what she made at her last job after 6 months of looking. I know full well that it sucks out there right now, but your quote that half of the country is on public assistance of some sort is pure nonsense. That would mean statistically speaking half of my family would be on public support, which they're not. Half the people I know would also be on public assistance, which is also not the case. In fact, I dont know ANYBODY on public assistance. Maybe my sampling of the population isn't the same as the two people in the trailer park that this so called study used for their sample, but I have a hard time believing this.


----------



## navyasw02

ironman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Work visas are part of the global economy. There's nothing illegal or wrong about it. There's plenty of Americans working abroad as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There becomes something wrong with it if the economy sucks and americans cant find jobs. We will see what happens in Nov and what ever happens happens and we just have to do the best we can to survive, but the boom times are over thats for sure
Click to expand...

From under what kind of rock of ignorance did you crawl? Americans cant find jobs because somebody is here on an approved, legal work visa? Yea cause there's so many folks in India with a PhD just waiting to pounce on the first job opening that comes up in America. You're drastically overestimating the number of foreign workers here. The reason people cant find jobs is because jobs are being cut, not because the floodgates are opening.


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> 50% on public assistance? Really? What defines public assistance, the Bush Tax cuts of 2001?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not trying to be rude but have you been out on a boat for the last 2 years, things are REALLY bad right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I guess this isn't valid since you cant provide a source.
> 
> I'm still in the Navy, and have been for 12 years. My wife has to change jobs EVERY 2-3 years when I get new orders. I know how tough it is to see my wife make half of what she made at her last job after 6 months of looking. I know full well that it sucks out there right now, but your quote that half of the country is on public assistance of some sort is pure nonsense. That would mean statistically speaking half of my family would be on public support, which they're not. Half the people I know would also be on public assistance, which is also not the case. In fact, I dont know ANYBODY on public assistance. Maybe my sampling of the population isn't the same as the two people in the trailer park that this so called study used for their sample, but I have a hard time believing this.
Click to expand...

I read the article on yahoo, but I did a quick google search and right out of the gate I saw 18-25% of course these numbers are always down played just like unemployment is (unemployment is WAY higher than 10-15%, thats just the number of people that are still eligible to collect, the people off unemployment and who are just destitute or living with family are no longer counted, also underemployment is not counted so we dont really know but im guessing its close to 33-40%). If you are in the military I can gaurentee your sampling is totally anicdotal because likely every one you know is either in the military or a military dependant so there is no reason for public assistance. I also dont know anyone on public assistance but my Dad traveled to Minnisota this summer and said it was BAD. You can squable with me over the percentage but the bottom line is things are going down the toilet in a hurry. Stay in the military as long as you can because pretty soon there is not going to be any funding for it, where do you think your pay check comes from, tax money from civilian jobs, if everyones wages are being deflated and rich people are moving money over seas where do you think that money will come from.

Its happening way faster than I thought it would happen, things are being artificially proped up because its a major election cycle. If the new politicians dont do something we are all screwed.


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picusld said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Work visas are part of the global economy. There's nothing illegal or wrong about it. There's plenty of Americans working abroad as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There becomes something wrong with it if the economy sucks and americans cant find jobs. We will see what happens in Nov and what ever happens happens and we just have to do the best we can to survive, but the boom times are over thats for sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *From under what kind of rock of ignorance did you crawl?* Americans cant find jobs because somebody is here on an approved, legal work visa? Yea cause there's so many folks in India with a PhD just waiting to pounce on the first job opening that comes up in America. You're drastically overestimating the number of foreign workers here. The reason people cant find jobs is because jobs are being cut, not because the floodgates are opening.
Click to expand...

Its a combination of NAFTA, in sourcing H1 visa worker, out sourcing manufacturing to near slave labor nations like china and not having enough tarrifs to protect american workers from having to compete with 10 cents an hour over seas. Also what effects engineers is our national prioritization of major infrastructure projects which can be attributed to EPA and other onerous regulations. So its not just H1 visa workers its a combination of things, however, I have seen with my own eyes offices full of "engineers" on H1 visas and I have seen work in my office "work shared" or out sourced to these offices, they have shabby credentials but they work for cheap but are not real engineers. China is not even an academicly credible nation, India does a little better and they have a few nobel prize winners but per capita they are just as useless as China.

Seriously dude whats up with the bolded comment, is this like your internet talk because I know you dont talk like that to superiours in the military no matter what you think. I always thought military had more couth than that.


----------



## navyasw02

Quoting two posts here:



ironman said:


> I read the article on yahoo, but I did a quick google search and right out of the gate I saw 18-25% of course these numbers are always down played just like unemployment is (unemployment is WAY higher than 10-15%, thats just the number of people that are still eligible to collect, the people off unemployment and who are just destitute or living with family are no longer counted, also underemployment is not counted so we dont really know but im guessing its close to 33-40%). If you are in the military I can gaurentee your sampling is totally anicdotal because likely every one you know is either in the military or a military dependant so there is no reason for public assistance. I also dont know anyone on public assistance but my Dad traveled to Minnisota this summer and said it was BAD. You can squable with me over the percentage but the bottom line is things are going down the toilet in a hurry. Stay in the military as long as you can because pretty soon there is not going to be any funding for it, where do you think your pay check comes from, tax money from civilian jobs, if everyones wages are being deflated and rich people are moving money over seas where do you think that money will come from.
> 
> Its a combination of NAFTA, in sourcing H1 visa worker, out sourcing manufacturing to near slave labor nations like china and not having enough tarrifs to protect american workers from having to compete with 10 cents an hour over seas. Also what effects engineers is our national prioritization of major infrastructure projects which can be attributed to EPA and other onerous regulations. So its not just H1 visa workers its a combination of things, however, I have seen with my own eyes offices full of "engineers" on H1 visas and I have seen work in my office "work shared" or out sourced to these offices, they have shabby credentials but they work for cheap but are not real engineers. China is not even an academicly credible nation, India does a little better and they have a few nobel prize winners but per capita they are just as useless as China.
> 
> Seriously dude whats up with the bolded comment, is this like your internet talk because I know you dont talk like that to superiours in the military no matter what you think. I always thought military had more couth than that.



First off, you're not my superior. Second, you have no clue about what I do and the people and industries I've worked with. Third, the only thing you've proven from this whole discussion is that you have zero ethical credibility and an axe to grind when it comes to foreigners for some completely irrational reason. Fourth, again you dont have a source for your argument other than your own anecdote about your dad going to Minnesota and some nonsense you supposedly read on yahoo.


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> Quoting two posts here:
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article on yahoo, but I did a quick google search and right out of the gate I saw 18-25% of course these numbers are always down played just like unemployment is (unemployment is WAY higher than 10-15%, thats just the number of people that are still eligible to collect, the people off unemployment and who are just destitute or living with family are no longer counted, also underemployment is not counted so we dont really know but im guessing its close to 33-40%). If you are in the military I can gaurentee your sampling is totally anicdotal because likely every one you know is either in the military or a military dependant so there is no reason for public assistance. I also dont know anyone on public assistance but my Dad traveled to Minnisota this summer and said it was BAD. You can squable with me over the percentage but the bottom line is things are going down the toilet in a hurry. Stay in the military as long as you can because pretty soon there is not going to be any funding for it, where do you think your pay check comes from, tax money from civilian jobs, if everyones wages are being deflated and rich people are moving money over seas where do you think that money will come from.
> 
> Its a combination of NAFTA, in sourcing H1 visa worker, out sourcing manufacturing to near slave labor nations like china and not having enough tarrifs to protect american workers from having to compete with 10 cents an hour over seas. Also what effects engineers is our national prioritization of major infrastructure projects which can be attributed to EPA and other onerous regulations. So its not just H1 visa workers its a combination of things, however, I have seen with my own eyes offices full of "engineers" on H1 visas and I have seen work in my office "work shared" or out sourced to these offices, they have shabby credentials but they work for cheap but are not real engineers. China is not even an academicly credible nation, India does a little better and they have a few nobel prize winners but per capita they are just as useless as China.
> 
> Seriously dude whats up with the bolded comment, is this like your internet talk because I know you dont talk like that to superiours in the military no matter what you think. I always thought military had more couth than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, you're not my superior. Second, you have no clue about what I do and the people and industries I've worked with. Third, the only thing you've proven from this whole discussion is that you have zero ethical credibility and an axe to grind when it comes to foreigners for some completely irrational reason. Fourth, again you dont have a source for your argument other than your own anecdote about your dad going to Minnesota and some nonsense you supposedly read on yahoo.
Click to expand...

Thats cool, so I guess the economic melt down is all just a myth and all is well. Carry on with your head in the sand.

Anyways I think the OP's question has been answered, things are at a new level of "tought out there", if you can hide out in grad school for a little while it will give you some time to feel out the market without being in a position/status of unemployed, every day that clicks by in that status hurts your ability to find a job.


----------



## benbo

ironman said:


> things are at a new level of "tought out there"


I'm thinking of going out to a steak place tonight, but the last time I went the steak was a little tought.


----------



## maryannette

benbo said:


> I'm thinking of going out to a steak place tonight, but the last time I went the steak was a little tought.



The steak was a little tough or a little thought?

I prefer to have steak at home.


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro

Tought crowd here.


----------



## cement

don't go getting your toughty whiteys in a bunch


----------



## pavell

thanks for the advice guys.

i think the thread was going off the deep end haha.


----------



## Supe

pavell said:


> thanks for the advice guys.
> i think the thread was going off the deep end haha.



Don't talk about "ends" around ironman. You probably won't like the "end" result.


----------



## ironman

pavell said:


> thanks for the advice guys.
> i think the thread was going off the deep end haha.


Some people dont like talking about the hard realities of the situation this nation is facing. The whole point of being a first world nation is to have plentiful high wage jobs and cushy lifestyles. If you want to be "hard" and live in a tent then go to a 2nd or 3rd world nation and live. I agree that entitlement is killing us but willingness to work BUT with an expectation of a high wage and cushy life is simply an expectation of living in a first world nation. Fellow americans view this outlook with scorn and think that every generation should have to redue the work that was done before, thats like every generation having to reinvent the wheel.

You cant find a job because our wealth is being given away at an exponential rate that our forfathers worked for. I keep hearing employers and politicians say that engineering is a "high demand" field and there are not enough, well im not seeing it. I am happy that some of you on here are able to get counter offers to force the issue on a raise but thats not the norm, but at least gives hope to the rest of us. If I am asked to stamp drawings designed by someeone else as a condition of emplooyment again for not that great of an offer I may just let my PE lapse and renew when times are better, so far the PE has done more harm that good.


----------



## Capt Worley PE

ironman said:


> I keep hearing employers and politicians say that engineering is a "high demand" field and there are not enough, well im not seeing it.


Maybe the problem is you.

Just sayin'.


----------



## CbusPaul

> Seriously dude whats up with the bolded comment, is this like your internet talk because I know you dont talk like that to superiours in the military no matter what you think. I always thought military had more couth than that.



Does this comment come from the same guy who has posted on other forums that he went AWOL from the military? Rppearso is a real piece of work.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

CbusPaul said:


> Does this comment come from the same guy who has posted on other forums that he went AWOL from the military? Rppearso is a real piece of work.


Not to mention the nefarious things he did to his first wife that caused her to leave him.


----------



## navyasw02

wilheldp_PE said:


> CbusPaul said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this comment come from the same guy who has posted on other forums that he went AWOL from the military? Rppearso is a real piece of work.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the nefarious things he did to his first wife that caused her to leave him.
Click to expand...

Wow a quick google search for rppearso reveals so much about this guy. It's actually a bit addicting reading all the various things he's posted on numerous boards about himself. It's almost like a choose your own adventure and every path ends in a train wreck.


----------



## Paul S

navyasw02 said:


> Wow a quick google search for rppearso reveals so much about this guy. It's actually a bit addicting reading all the various things he's posted on numerous boards about himself. It's almost like a choose your own adventure and every path ends in a train wreck.


Very addictive and can be made into a sitcom.

My favorite is the story about trying to legally changing names to avoid child support, and wondering if the PE is transferable to the new name.


----------



## navyasw02

Paul S said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow a quick google search for rppearso reveals so much about this guy. It's actually a bit addicting reading all the various things he's posted on numerous boards about himself. It's almost like a choose your own adventure and every path ends in a train wreck.
> 
> 
> 
> Very addictive and can be made into a sitcom.
> 
> My favorite is the story about trying to legally changing names to avoid child support, and wondering if the PE is transferable to the new name.
Click to expand...

And he was trying to renounce his US citizenship and seek asylum to avoid it too. I really thought I was reading the script to It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia or something.


----------



## ironman

navyasw02 said:


> Paul S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow a quick google search for rppearso reveals so much about this guy. It's actually a bit addicting reading all the various things he's posted on numerous boards about himself. It's almost like a choose your own adventure and every path ends in a train wreck.
> 
> 
> 
> Very addictive and can be made into a sitcom.
> 
> My favorite is the story about trying to legally changing names to avoid child support, and wondering if the PE is transferable to the new name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he was trying to renounce his US citizenship and seek asylum to avoid it too. I really thought I was reading the script to It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia or something.
Click to expand...

I wonder if I can copyright stuff I come up with, I should probably stop posting for free and start copy writing this stuff and selling it.


----------



## benbo

ironman said:


> I should probably stop posting


Good idea! Why not start now and you'll have that airplane in no time?

And you'll help the economy by providing employment to a fleet of editors.


----------



## Master slacker

Sorry, I just had to re-visit this thread. Classic Pearson doucheness.


----------



## pavell

ok guys back on a serious note. i got accepted to grad school for MS in civil in the spring. what do you guys think about getting a "General" MS in civil engineering. you take 2 classes in structures, 2 classes in geotech, 2 classes in transportation, 2 classes in env, 2 classes in water...etc.... and 2 electives.

what do you guys think about this? it would take me 2-2.5 years. i have no debt right now.


----------



## Dleg

Sure why not? That way, you're covered. In the long run, all anyone will see are the initials "MS" anyway. Might as well try not to pigeon-hole yourself.

Congratulations!


----------



## NCcarguy

pavell said:


> ok guys back on a serious note. i got accepted to grad school for MS in civil in the spring. what do you guys think about getting a "General" MS in civil engineering. you take 2 classes in structures, 2 classes in geotech, 2 classes in transportation, 2 classes in env, 2 classes in water...etc.... and 2 electives.
> what do you guys think about this? it would take me 2-2.5 years. i have no debt right now.



It appears in NC anyway that Hydraulic engineers are a rarity, although maybe that's changing???? My suggestion would be to pick a specialty if you're going to spend two more years in school...and be the best you can be at it. I think in the long run that may pay off better for you than two more years of general knowledge.

Congrats anyway, regardless of the situation.

and...on a second note, this bumps this priceless thread back to the top. Where's Ironman anyway?


----------



## Roy T.

picusld said:


> Chucktown PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&amp;daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now .....
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
> 
> As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
> 
> As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
> 
> Something to consider...
Click to expand...

He's not going to find work as a civil engineer in the united states of america. pure and simple. period, and end of discussion. it just isn't happening.

my advice to a new college graduate who is contemplating returning to grad school is to focus on areas of the economy that services the rich. america is now an official third world state. If you've ever been to a long established third world country - you know what i am talking about.

Go back to grad school in a completely different field. I would focus on health care (look into phycisions assitant particularly for plastic cosmetic surgery), tax accounting, private security (the rich, and thier children, will eventually need protection from kidnapping), culinary arts, cosmetology, grounds keeping for golf courses... use your imagination.

Anything that the idle rich would spend money on - focus on that. Tour some of the poorer countries in south america and seek advice from the locals. THAT is how you will survive in today's america

Cheerio!


----------



## roadwreck

Roy T. said:


> He's not going to find work as a civil engineer in the united states of america. pure and simple. period, and end of discussion. it just isn't happening.
> my advice to a new college graduate who is contemplating returning to grad school is to focus on areas of the economy that services the rich. america is now an official third world state. If you've ever been to a long established third world country - you know what i am talking about.
> 
> Go back to grad school in a completely different field. I would focus on health care (look into phycisions assitant particularly for plastic cosmetic surgery), tax accounting, private security (the rich, and thier children, will eventually need protection from kidnapping), culinary arts, cosmetology, grounds keeping for golf courses... use your imagination.
> 
> Anything that the idle rich would spend money on - focus on that. Tour some of the poorer countries in south america and seek advice from the locals. THAT is how you will survive in today's america
> 
> Cheerio!


----------



## Dleg

Well, the idle rich will still need smooth roads for their limousines, runways for their private jets, parking lots at the stores they shop at, etc. Civil engineering is still a good choice.

LOL.


----------



## benbo

> Anything that the idle rich would spend money on - focus on that. Tour some of the poorer countries in south america and seek advice from the locals. THAT is how you will survive in today's america
> Cheerio!


What happened Roy? If I recall correctly, you used to BE part of the rich and were instructing everyone else how to do it.



> It takes a little bit of initiative but their are plenty of engineers who make well into 6 figures. working for county government wont get you there, nor will working for most structural AE (building structural is a low-paying gig contrary to popular belief)
> 6 figures is not at all uncommon for a PE in industry.
> 
> maybe you fit this profile?
> 
> http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?Job...amp;from=indeed
> 
> 200-250k / yr
> 
> and yes - I make 6 figures.





> QUOTE (Roy T. @ Aug 18 2009, 04:46 PM) Also, I will admit I am very much a shameless opportunist. I made no friends along the way to where I am now. I specifically targeted (last year) when oil was $145/barrel the O&amp;G industry and landed a spot. I used my past government job for all it was worth including plenty of study time for the PE and lots of (unauthorized) field experience. I'd just go to the job site and start barking orders. I learned tons and looked out for myself.
> 
> It's tough out there - I make no apologies.


What happened to the good ol' days a few months ago when you posted these gems, and many similar pronouncements?

This thread is full of similar gems-

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=9630&amp;hl=


----------



## Roy T.

benbo said:


> Anything that the idle rich would spend money on - focus on that. Tour some of the poorer countries in south america and seek advice from the locals. THAT is how you will survive in today's america
> Cheerio!
> 
> 
> 
> What happened Roy? If I recall correctly, you used to BE part of the rich and were instructing everyone else how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a little bit of initiative but their are plenty of engineers who make well into 6 figures. working for county government wont get you there, nor will working for most structural AE (building structural is a low-paying gig contrary to popular belief)
> 6 figures is not at all uncommon for a PE in industry.
> 
> maybe you fit this profile?
> 
> http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?Job...amp;from=indeed
> 
> 200-250k / yr
> 
> and yes - I make 6 figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE (Roy T. @ Aug 18 2009, 04:46 PM) Also, I will admit I am very much a shameless opportunist. I made no friends along the way to where I am now. I specifically targeted (last year) when oil was $145/barrel the O&amp;G industry and landed a spot. I used my past government job for all it was worth including plenty of study time for the PE and lots of (unauthorized) field experience. I'd just go to the job site and start barking orders. I learned tons and looked out for myself.
> 
> It's tough out there - I make no apologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened to the good ol' days a few months ago when you posted these gems, and many similar pronouncements?
> 
> This thread is full of similar gems-
> 
> http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=9630&amp;hl=
Click to expand...

If you look at my most recent posts - I still am *very* much a shameless opportunist... which is why I am moving overseas.

My post is entirely consistent which my world view... as is the current economy.. indeed they are an affirmation of them..

I am sorry if so many people here are stuck and are in bad situations here in the USA . I've stongly believe loyalty to anything other than family and friends is dumb.

go where the money is... always... where the money was 1 year ago... it no longer is today. Hence, pack your bags and move overseas.

or don't and be broke.

nature of the beast. civil engineers aren't the most adaptive lot, but they need to be to survive.

http://www.careerjet.com.au/search/jobs?s=...er&amp;l=sydney

http://www.command.com.au/job-36007.htm

Senior Civil Engineer - Civils/ Water - up to $200k

The Aussie dollar is trading at parity with the USD BTW.

good luck all. I got my VISA


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## benbo

> I am sorry if so many people here are stuck and are in bad situations here in the USA . I've stongly believe loyalty to anything other than family and friends is dumb.


Yeah, just about everything you said about six months ago you are now saying is incorrect. So at the very least your advice has a very short shelf life.. THe truth is you were pretty much wrong both times. But I'm sorry you can't hack it here.

Uh, who are these so many people you are posting about? Are you talking about ironhead? In that case I believe you may have found a suitable audience for your pearls of wisdom. Assuming you aren't the same person.

Yes, some people are going through tough times, but many are thriving right here. I still make over six figures, BTW, right here in the good ol' USA . Many people do. And many engineers are being offered and accepting new positions.

But I also thought one of your words of widsom was about the value of a PE license, and how engineering was THE field in the US. Is this license of great use in Australia? I was unaware they recognized it.

What is truly hilarious is this thing you have for posting links to career websites for random jobs. You did the same thing a few months ago when you were extolling the virtues of the civil engineering profession in the US. Now you've switched to international websites. Neither is evidence of anything.


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## Roy T.

benbo said:


> I am sorry if so many people here are stuck and are in bad situations here in the USA . I've stongly believe loyalty to anything other than family and friends is dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, just about everything you said about six months ago you are now saying is incorrect. So at the very least your advice has a very short shelf life.. THe truth is you were pretty much wrong both times. But I'm sorry you can't hack it here.
> 
> Uh, who are these so many people you are posting about? Are you talking about ironhead? In that case I believe you may have found a suitable audience for your pearls of wisdom. Assuming you aren't the same person.
Click to expand...




> Yes, some people are going through tough times, but many are thriving right here. I still make over six figures, BTW, right here in the good ol' USA . Many people do. And many engineers are being offered and accepting new positions.


Of course you do benbo. And you are right, tons of new jobs out there for the many bright young engineers looking for work.

My Bad.



> But I also thought one of your words of widsom was about the value of a PE license, and how engineering was THE field in the US. Is this license of great use in Australia? I was unaware they recognized it.


It got me a permanent resident visa. But, you're right - other than that, it's not the same as here in the states. Try getting a visa without one though...



> What is truly hilarious is this thing you have for posting links to career websites for random jobs. You did the same thing a few months ago when you were extolling the virtues of the civil engineering profession in the US. Now you've switched to international websites. Neither is evidence of anything.


Find me similar job postings for the states...

but... you know benbo... all this misses the point.

You have a lot of anger friend. it is understandable, times are truly tough. I have nothing but love for you brother and hope you are able to feed your family. All that rage makes me question just how good thngs are going for you. BUT, don't be ashamed man. seriously. It's bad for everyone. Try some relaxation execises.

As for "hacking it" on an internet message board. I live in the real world. And the real world is that this country is f***ed. I know the market is like, internet bravado aside. Many a PhD Engineer bagging groceries right now here in the states. Don't be ashames of your own circumstance... whatever it truly is. I judge no one.

I made a mistake in bragging about having a VISA to leave this country. It was an unnecessary provocation to people who are suffering and don't have that choice. apologies.

peace and love brother, seriously. Get outside and enjoy the sunshine. life is short.

I'll pray for America while I'm in OZ.... and you.

To quote "Get Him to The Greek"

Sh-t is serious out there! the bubble done popped!

Cheerio


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## benbo

^^^^

You are a serious kook my friend. But I encourage anybody who is similarly nutty to pack up and leave for Down Under. Of course, nobody knows where you'll be heading in six months. I actually suspect you'll be graduating from Junior High, based on the content of your posts, but that's a different story.

I'm doing just great with my hefty salary. Sorry you can't make it here. Well, not really.

BTW - my brother and sister in law both live in Australia and do nothing but complain about the high taxes and backwards living conditions. Enjoy. I hope nobody mistakes a troll such as yourself for an aborigine. They aren't treated very well.


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## roadwreck

I just came across an interesting quote that seemed somewhat relevant to this thread.



> Anybody who thinks money can make you happy hasn't got money


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## Flyer_PE

Quoting one of my high school teachers:



> Your mother always told you that you can't buy happiness. What she neglected to tell you was that you can rent it.


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## benbo

roadwreck said:


> I just came across an interesting quote that seemed somewhat relevant to this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody who thinks money can make you happy hasn't got money
Click to expand...

Money can't make you happy.

But not having any money, or owing a lot of money can sure make you unhappy. Or at least make it harder to be happy.


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## navyasw02

When I read posts like this I wonder if people said the country was falling apart when we were battling those damn commies, or during the 20's, or even during the antebellum period. We seem to have made it through those times fairly well, maybe every generation just need something to complain about. If things weren't doom and gloom, what would people talk about?


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## Dleg

opcorn:


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## RIP - VTEnviro

Dleg said:


> opcorn:


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## Capt Worley PE

"There's two things I won't do for money; I won't kill for it and I won't marry for it. other than that, I'm pretty open." - Jim Rockford


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## Roy T.

benbo,

nothing but love brother. I will truly pray for america - but I'm not going to be sticking around to see the final act. it won't be pretty. There are simply greener pastures elsewhere.

I feel the way a migrant leaving some central america dirt-hole and coming to the states must have felt like 30 years ago. Leaving behind a poverty-stricken and corrupt homeland for a better life.

I would like nothing more than, 5 years from now, to be proven wrong - and that america will be back on track. but deep in your fearful heart.... you know I am right. it gets worse from here.

cheerio


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## benbo

Roy T. said:


> benbo,
> nothing but love brother. I will truly pray for america - but I'm not going to be sticking around to see the final act. it won't be pretty. There are simply greener pastures elsewhere.
> 
> I feel the way a migrant leaving some central america dirt-hole and coming to the states must have felt like 30 years ago. Leaving behind a poverty-stricken and corrupt homeland for a better life.
> 
> I would like nothing more than, 5 years from now, to be proven wrong - and that america will be back on track. but deep in your fearful heart.... you know I am right. it gets worse from here.
> 
> cheerio


You're back again, Crocodile RoyT?

I thought you'd be off somewhere blowing on a didgeridoo.


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## Roy T.

benbo said:


> Roy T. said:
> 
> 
> 
> benbo,
> nothing but love brother. I will truly pray for america - but I'm not going to be sticking around to see the final act. it won't be pretty. There are simply greener pastures elsewhere.
> 
> I feel the way a migrant leaving some central america dirt-hole and coming to the states must have felt like 30 years ago. Leaving behind a poverty-stricken and corrupt homeland for a better life.
> 
> I would like nothing more than, 5 years from now, to be proven wrong - and that america will be back on track. but deep in your fearful heart.... you know I am right. it gets worse from here.
> 
> cheerio
> 
> 
> 
> You're back again, Crocodile RoyT?
> 
> I thought you'd be off somewhere blowing on a didgeridoo.
Click to expand...


HAHA! you know i missed your comment about being mistaken for an "aborigine". LOL If I were a black guy I'd be really offended right now!

Sorry to disappoint, but my ancestors were russian and german, I'm as white as snow dude... the only way I get mistaken for an aborigine is if I perform "black-face" on the streets of Sydney.

my only fear is sunburns and skin cancer... and that my wife will catch me leering at all those hot aussie girls... ;-)~

later benbo!


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## benbo

> If I were a black guy I'd be really offended right now!


Wow. This comment is so bizarre I can only think you made it to render me speechless. It almost worked.

I assure you, when I made the comment about trolls such as yourself and aborigines the skin color of aborigines did not even enter my mind. Frankly, skin pigmentation is pretty much insignificant to me. It wouldn't occur to me to think of an aboriginal as a "black guy." And I was completely unaware that trolls came in a particular hue. I didn't think I had to spell it out, but maybe you were unaware that both trolls and aborigines are noted for their diminutive stature. That was the issue. And my comment was more directed at the backward attitude of a significant portion of the Australian population towards their indigenous people. I hope I've cleared that up, because I don't think I can explain it at a more remedial level.

There is a bright spot however. If you actually believe that being compared to an enduring native population is something to be offended about, you will probably fit in just fine over there.


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## Roy T.

benbo said:


> If I were a black guy I'd be really offended right now!
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. This comment is so bizarre I can only think you made it to render me speechless. It almost worked.
> 
> I assure you, when I made the comment about trolls such as yourself and aborigines the skin color of aborigines did not even enter my mind. Frankly, skin pigmentation is pretty much insignificant to me. It wouldn't occur to me to think of an aboriginal as a "black guy." And I was completely unaware that trolls came in a particular hue. I didn't think I had to spell it out, but maybe you were unaware that both trolls and aborigines are noted for their diminutive stature. That was the issue. And my comment was more directed at the backward attitude of a significant portion of the Australian population towards their indigenous people. I hope I've cleared that up, because I don't think I can explain it at a more remedial level.
> 
> There is a bright spot however. If you actually believe that being compared to an enduring native population is something to be offended about, you will probably fit in just fine over there.
Click to expand...

my god you are boring. i might as well be talking to rainman. no mas.


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## benbo

Roy T. said:


> no mas.


You promise? Finally.


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