# Control System Engineering (CSE) October 2015



## UserFriendly (Sep 30, 2015)

Looking for folks taking the exam to chat about practice questions, strategy, or any other related topic. Please feel free to join the conversation. :group:

-UF

Looking for folks taking the exam coming up in October. If you're taking it or have taken it and would like to chat about questions, strategy, or any other related topic please feel free to join the conversation. -UF

Read More at: CSE October 2015 - Taking the exam? | InstrEng Forums


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## UserFriendly (Sep 30, 2015)

ah noob fail oops


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## Cali_eng (Oct 3, 2015)

Hi, I'm in California and I took and passed the chemical PE exam in April. I'm also taking the Control Systems PE exam this October in Pomona. I purchased both of the pdf/printable references from the ISA. One is basically a bunch of problems and the other is like a reference manual though it's missing a lot of detail and uses some symbols for things like specific gravity that are different. I also bought the PE Control Systems: Sample Questions &amp; Solutions book which seems okay, I'm working through those problems and getting familar with my reference material. Having taken a PE exam, I think the best preparation is knowing your reference material. I also bought the PPI reference manual which is also incomplete. Both references contain steam tables, probably to bring up their total page count but it does not add much.

For the chemical PE exam in retrospect the Chemical Engineering Reference Manual along with my Kinetics text and the NCEES practice test were the only things I really needed. I have not purchased the Liptak references but if I don't pass this time, I will probably do so for next year as they seem like the only comprehensive treatment of Control Systems. Studying for this test is frustrating since the references aren't very good and I'm unsure if the problems I'm looking at are even similar to the test questions since they aren't from NCEES. In my experience, books of PE practice problems that don't come from NCEES are not all that similar to the actual exam. There are also a lot of questions that refer to NFPA, IEC, ISA standards but the only thing the references offer is a list of the standards, not any details of what's actually in the standards. A list does me no good but again it seems like the purpose is to fill more pages rather than provide useful content. Also I noticed that every reference book has an exhaustive (and nearly identical) summary of the PE exam which is also not really helpful since that can be found on the NCEES website.

Although I've purchased a bunch of references, I haven't put that much time into study, I have some hope that my work experience will come in handy since I'm a process control engineer and I work for a major system integrator reverse engineering RS Logix code and writing as built control narratives among other things. I do worry about all of the unfamiliar codes, regulations and sizing control valves (complicated process) the most.

How about yourself?


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## UserFriendly (Oct 7, 2015)

Ah, thanks so much for responding, glad to hear my frustrations are not unique. I'm envious of my civil colleagues that have books and classes that walk them thru everything. There is no "Lindeburg" CSE book, like for the FE and nearly every other discipline. Also, no NCEES practice exams (more on this below).

I have the same references:

Control Systems Engineering Exam Reference Manual by Byron Lewis, PE
Control Systems Engineering (CSE) Study Guide, Fifth Edition

PE Control Systems: Sample Questions and Solutions by Jagadeesh Pandiyan, PE

I recommend:

Control Systems Engineer Technical Reference Handbook by Chuck Cornell, PE

Fisher Control Valve Handbook

NCEES Reference Handbook

FE Review Manual

The CSE Study guide actually is probably the best example of what sample problems will look like outside of an ISA class ($$$-But the videos are available on the ISA site free for ISA members.) Because as the CSE Study Guide states at the top of page 6, "Exams are developed by a standing ISA committee". I used it as a practice 8 hour exam and failed it. A lot of the questions on it are very reference specific, meaning if you don't have a reference for x, you don't have an answer. My theory is that a lot of these problems were thrown out of previous tests for precisely that reason. But the sample test will give you a feel for the "bait" that trickier questions may throw out to fool you.

The Pandiyan book I think is best for making you use your references and get to know them. It's not perfect, there are mistakes, but it makes you work and that is important.

I've heard mixed reviews of the Liptak books. One benefit I've read in an old forum, all the pick the best instrument questions use it as a reference. Another area where there is no consistency, the tables that list instruments, accuracies, turndown, etc. they're all different enough to give you a wrong answer. Omega (the mnfr) has downloadable technical references with tables that seem to very similar to the tables in Liptak.

I've gone through all my resources at this point and hopefully have honed in what each contains for quick lookup. I'm concerned about questions on industries and instruments that I don't have resources for. I feel pretty good about the quantitative, Pandiyan helped with that, qualitative seems like it could be very tricky. ISA 84 for example has multiple sections and all are fair game. Many of these can be reasoned through, but every now and then there seems to be a tricky one. Add to that a host of other standards, an extensive safety section....at least we can get about 20 wrong and still pass, right?


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## Cali_eng (Oct 8, 2015)

I didn't realize that the review course videos are available on the ISA website for free, I actually called them to ask why no review classes are offered when the exam is this month but they didn't mention that, thanks.

I found the Liptak books online. They are thousands of pages and I'm not sure how useful they would actually be on the test now.

Ncees says the passing rate for first timers is 78% which is either the highest or second highest among all the disciplines. The second time pass rate is also higher than 50%. I'm actually going to bring the Lindberg with me to the test since its like the fe review manual but has quite a bit more stuff and a lot of material that relates to some problems we might encounter.

Good to hear that they threw out some of those questions which require some random standard as reference. I'm familiar with some like NFPA but others not as much.

I think we can get 20 wrong or so. I thought the chemical PE was actually pretty easy especially compared to some of the practice material.

What is your experience in the industry? I think that will certainly help us a lot on this test. One thing if you're actually practicing process control, doing design, etc. you should know a lot of this stuff. A lot of the other disciplines are not out there doing the design work or solving problems which makes studying for the test harder.


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## UserFriendly (Oct 8, 2015)

I could not find the Liptak books online. They are huge volumes, at this point without knowing how to use them, it would be difficult to get up to speed on.

You're bringing your Chem Lindeburg with you? That may prove helpful as I've seen handfuls of practice questions that reference chemicals with which I'm unfamiliar.

The pass rates do make me feel optimistic, they do seem to suggest that the test is pretty fair. The many backgrounds, disciplines, experience, industries, etc one can have is really unorthodox when compared to e.g. a structural engineer.

I'm not certain they did throw those questions out, but I think it's safe to say that since they're in the ISA book that they're not on the test. I found some resources on the questions anyways as what I had before is a bit light.

Yes, 20-23 wrong, I think will result in a pass, &gt;70%. Glad to hear you found the Chem PE easier than your study materials. I've heard the CSE is pretty straightforward but it was from someone that took it before the 2011 spec. There was one year where the pass rate was 96%! (2001).

I work in Water/Wastewater and not one of us has the same background: one civil/process, one chem, one electronics, one electrical with an electrical PE, and then me an electrical w/o a PE. My background is in system integration: SCADA, PLCs, radio, networking, and control system design. All of which helps but there's still a lot in the exam spec with which I'm not familiar.

Are you working the day before the exam? I'm taking the day off to check out the test site, prepare, and relax.


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## Cali_eng (Oct 9, 2015)

I too am working in wastewater at the moment. It seems like a lot of the municipal water treatment facilities around the country are upgrading their control systems. We're putting in an Experion PKS DCS in Los Angeles, most of us are actually controls or electrical people but a few like me are also chemical.

I haven't been able to find this training on the ISA website, what keywords are you using to search? My membership has elapsed, is it only visible to members?

I took the PE before in the same place, there were a lot of people there before I learned a few things that will help me this time around. I'm not sure if this is universal but you can take a cell phone so long as you leave it at the front with the procters. You don't really need to bring food, there's a bunch of food places there. It's good to finish the morning session about 30 minutes early if you can manage it so you can be the first in line. If you wait the whole time, the line is fairly long. I spent the night before the exam last time in a hotel near the site but this time I will probably just drive. I felt myself starting to lose steam last time in the afternoon, I'll have to figure out a way this time to try and keep it together but it's pretty tough after 6 or 7 hours. I though putting those bookmark stickers with labels on my references was pretty useful.

I'm not working the day before the exam either, I think it's going to be another week until we get the exam authorization from NCEES. Are you feeling pressure? Do you need to stamp drawings?


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## UserFriendly (Oct 9, 2015)

Yes wastewater upgrades do seem to be on the rise driven by EPA requirements for nutrient removal. I'm in the northeast, we don't see Honeywell at all, mostly Rockwell, some Modicon.

lms.isa.org is the online training site for the ISA, you can search for CSE. The videos are listed at cost of $0.00, 6 modules. Compare to the $1855 online course of 20 modules. I'm not sure if it's available if your membership lapsed, your login may give you access.

I've heard that as well about cell phones. That's a good tip for lunch, I was also going to bring some decent snack bars and unsweetened ice tea and water for the lag time. I heard another good tip, be prepared for the full checkout again after lunch (calculator etc.), the second section may not start until close to 2pm, making for a long day 7-6p.

I think you're right about the exam authorization. Maybe next Thurs/Friday, that's about two weeks out.

I do need to start stamping drawings soon, so it would be great if I pass first time around. There's a bit of a lull right now, it'd be nice to have a little more work to distract me from the exam for the next few weeks. Not too much work though, I want to feel confident on exam day not fried from work.

How about you (pressure-wise)? The LA project sounds pretty huge. Are you looking to stamp I&amp;C drawings? I thought a PE could ethically stamp any drawing so long as it's something with which you have expertise.?


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## Cali_eng (Oct 10, 2015)

I've stamped P&amp;IDs and I've seen control systems pe's stamp those as well but we've got a bunch of new network drawings, cabinet drawings, loop drawings, etc. and my company only wants a control systems stamp. That combines with the fact that they only offer this once a year puts the pressure on. I just missed the application deadline for the Oct '14 test so it's been about 18 months! since I submitted this application.


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## Cali_eng (Oct 10, 2015)

I wish they would just do rolling computer based exams like they do for the FE. I know it complicates the cut score calculation but having to wait this long is silly.


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## UserFriendly (Oct 10, 2015)

Yeah, it definitely adds stress. The last thing I want to do is have to study and retake the test in 2016. Closed book computer based is supposedly on it's way (in the next 2-3 years according to the speaker in the videos). I would rather take a closed book exam, open book requires the candidate to be responsible for too much depth and breadth to be reasonable. I imagine there'll be a decent CSE Review Manual out by then, and they'll have some kind of handbook available for the exam, like the FE.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 11, 2015)

Hello Fellow Exam Takers,

Firstly, all the best this year. Secondly, I wanted to ask if anyone has received the exam auth yet?

Just to add to the conversation...here is how I have prepped...

I have gone through Chuck Cornell's entire textbook once.

I have gone through Batthika Control system handbook once.

Planning to go through the Bryon Lewis book once and complete it by next week..

Then take some practice exams...

And fine tune my preparation based on the exam results...

Then I also plan to flip through the Liptak book and heavily tab it.....I gave the exam last year and failed by a couple of points...and I strongly feel that the Liptak book had many instrumentation questions' answers in it...as feedback from someone who failed last year..please do not ignore the Liptak book!!

I have some ISA standards in my possession not all...

How are you guys going about collecting codes/references..such as ASME, IEEE etc? Is there a book or something out there that could list all these


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## Cali_eng (Oct 11, 2015)

Best of luck to both of you. I have not gotten my exam authorization yet, I'm in California. When I took the Chemical PE last spring I did not get the authorization until two weeks before the exam so there's still some time.

I am also using my process control textbook from college to cover some of the math topics. I have two volumes of Liptak, I think it will help with specific measurement device questions.

The only thing I have for the standards is the list of what they are in the reference texts. I don't think an exhaustive and substantive list of the standards really exists and if it did it would probably cost thousands since a single standard can cost $100. Since you already took the test I presume there must be a lot of these questions. I suppose I will have to make my best guess, think hard and try to eliminate at least one answer for each.

I will have to try and stay calm when I come across the types of questions that I feel are unreasonable. It would be easy to let this upset me which would then affect the way I answer other questions.


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## UserFriendly (Oct 12, 2015)

Best of luck to you both as well. I expect we'll receive the exam authorization later this week.

With Laptak volumes at $200 each, I had to pass. I was able to supplement with the OMEGA Transactions which has some specific information on Level, Flow, Temperature, Pressure, etc. Along with the references listed above, I have a pretty sizable stack of books.

How much prep time have you allowed yourself? I've averaged about 10 hours/week of study time since the beginning of August.

For Codes and Standards there are a few easy ones: the CSE Study Guide has a list at the end of the suggested reference section. Cornell covers a few at the end of his book. The Fisher Control Valve Handbook has a codes and standards section. Wikipedia has a list for IEC which is about 4 pages long. From there it starts getting tricky. I grabbed some common IEEE standards (Ethernet, wifi, etc) and tried googling for lists but didn't have too much success.

I think that's a good point, Cali_eng. We should anticipate unfair questions (topic, word choice) so that we're not disappointed when we encounter them. There is a bank of ~20 questions to get wrong, we'll have to spend wisely.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 12, 2015)

I had emailed NCEES last week asking when we will receive auth. I am told later this week so watch your emails.

I wanted to start at the beginning of August but couldn't..so I finally started beginning of September and just did the math..that I have studied about 30 hours per week since then..about 3-4 hours on weekdays after work...and 10 hours over the weekend...I have mostly been reading ..but this weekend onwards I will start focusing on calculations and math type stuff...Cv calculation..rupture disc calcs..resolution..zero calibration etc. ..Hope I haddn't cut it this close..but am planning to take a couple of days off of work to catch up a bit...then hit as many questions I can and refamiliarize myself with all the text...

Yes, there will be questions that may make you wanna swear...but we have about 20 or so to get wrong..  Let's hope we choose wisely...


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## UserFriendly (Oct 14, 2015)

Received my authorization today about noon.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 14, 2015)

Me too..


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## Cali_eng (Oct 15, 2015)

Me three. I can't say that I've put in as much time as you guys, I work a lot of OT and I have a five month old baby at home with a wife that needs attention as well. The two PE's in a year has def been tough on the family.

I got some studying in tonight, I think I'll def have to work on the more complex cv calcs, the tricky zero calibrations, and transfer functions. It may sound like a truism but when I'm taking the test, I really need to focus on reading the questions thoroughly.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 15, 2015)

Cali_eng: It is commendable that you are attempting a second PE with this life situation. I have always been curious, why do some people like yourself choose to get a second PE after you already have one? Doesn't the first PE allow you to sign Cntly Sys drawings if you felt you were comfortable with it? CSE is a tier two discipline which allows people of other discipline PE to sign control system drawings....just want to make sure you are aware of that ...


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## Cali_eng (Oct 17, 2015)

Thanks for that. There are really endless reasons to get the PE. Recognition, even better resume, personal sense of satisfaction and accomplishment, it forces you to stay sharp mentally and study certain things that one might not otherwise study, I could go on and on. Signing drawings is near the bottom to be honest. While my job wants a cse stamp for system design drawings, it's not a real reason for me. I had this whole application process in the works long before I had my present job.

This might sound a little crazy but I would like to keep getting different PE's in the future. A part of me just likes the process and the study and all of the new things I learn as a result. I wouldn't mind too much if I fail this round either since I would then be forced to take a review course and get to learn some new things .


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 17, 2015)

Well in that case, there's always grad school. :thumbs:


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## UserFriendly (Oct 20, 2015)

> I really need to focus on reading the questions thoroughly.




All my hours of study have arrived at your comment. Going thru some practice questions, without having ever taken the exam this is my theory:

The quant questions will be the easier questions and there will be less of them. Trip ups will be in units, unnecessary info vs necessary info, etc.

The qualt questions will be harder and require more time. Trip ups will be in literal expression. Remember that the questions' validity have to hold up under examinee appeal. The literal answer will be the most correct answer or it can be challenged. If it's a fili n the blank and there are multiple blanks, each answer has to be true controls knowledge wise, but also literally in the sentence.

My strategy will be to take each question slowly, identify it, find the trip, find the solution. 6 minutes per question is a fair amount of time. Most calculations seem to be taking me under 3 minutes to complete. Blowing through a qualt question is not possible as a single word can change the meaning of a whole paragraph.


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## Cali_eng (Oct 22, 2015)

Six minutes will be more than sufficient. I just hope they don't hit me with questions I can't answer from my references. I would prefer more quant questions but the subject itself doesn't lend itself as much to that. With number problems I usually know if I'm right or have no idea, and there's a formula with a method.

I just continue to look at the passing percentage number and think my chances are pretty good. Is everybody studying this weekend?


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## UserFriendly (Oct 23, 2015)

I'll study for a few hours tomorrow and then an hour or so Monday and Tuesday, then I'm going to destress mode! One week!!!


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 23, 2015)

There will definitely be questions set side just to fluster us...rem to not stop on those too long. I ha eat done much calculations I feel because the last year's exam was more or less theory, stuff u knew or just didn't know...last year I was heavily focused on calcs due to my engineering tendencies..I learned to switch to more of a reading prep this time...hope it pays off..

I will study all of tomorrow, Sunday, Monday and Tues a couple of hours, then taking Wednesday and Thursday off to go through everything once more...

Best of luck to you all!!


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## CntrlEngrPE (Oct 31, 2015)

So how did you all feel about the exam? I think it was a pretty fair and balanced exam...agree? Obviously had some tricky questions..thoughts?


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## Cali_eng (Nov 1, 2015)

Overall the exam was fine, not a lot of problem solving on it in my opinion. It seemed pretty easy and was mostly what I expected. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if I didn't pass because of those know it or you don't type of questions. I took issue with a couple of problems for being too subjective. I sent a message to NCEES regarding this, I hope they don't count these questions in the scoring. I think they've done a pretty good job overall with the exam considering the fact that it's a smaller discipline. As it turns out, the reference materials available for the test are better preparation than I was led to believe so that was good. I sat near a guy who I worked with and he was taking the CSE exam too. He only had two references and was not very well prepared. I had quite a few books and references most of which came in handy.


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## UserFriendly (Nov 2, 2015)

I found it to be quite difficult, but on par with the CSE study guide practice exam. I had several ISA published books that were useful references, but they don't have all the answers. 8-10 weeks for results, good look to all!


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 2, 2015)

I too had a lot of references, and not all of them helped. I was happy to see at least 3-4 questions straight out of the study guides...I took like 10 seconds to answer those ones as I had the study guide questions down...schematics questions were simple yet, tricky..seemed like one needed multiple years of field experience in various fields to be able to answer all the theoretical/'word' problems..I was surprised to see that no Cv sizing questions were asked...weird...overall I felt ok with my performance..but yeah..now the wait begins..and I believe the results will be out in the 5-7 week time frame..theyve gotten better about releasing results quicker..


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 2, 2015)

Cali_eng said:


> I sat near a guy who I worked with and he was taking the CSE exam too. He only had two references and was not very well prepared. I had quite a few books and references most of which came in handy.




Same thing here...I actually had two guys sitting behind me for the CSU exam..they too had only a few references...made me wonder if I was doing something wrong or excessive...but after the exam I got my answer...you do need a lot of reference material and need to be able to find the stuff quickly..


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## UserFriendly (Nov 2, 2015)

I'm still perplexed by the topics presented and the quantity of each. Things I spent a lot of time learning that are not part of my regular work were nowhere to be found.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 3, 2015)

Yeah...so is the nature of the exam. After having failed it last year, I realized the exam has nothing to do with what we use on a regular basis at work...so I started looking at the exam as a mere regurgitation of info. type exercise..I will never size a valve or a rupture disc nor will I ever calculate SIL levels...so I switched to a more 'bookish' view of the exam...which is really sad...but oh well...what are we gonna do..


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## matt267 PE (Nov 3, 2015)

While we wait for results, let's head over to the "games" section of the site. The spamfest (aka 10K) thread is a tradition around here. Follow me: http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=25794


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## Cali_eng (Nov 3, 2015)

Some ppl actually do SIL calcs for a living which I've always thought were a total crock fwiw. I'm not sure what is considered crossing the line but NCEES ministers this board and does not approve of discussing exam content. I'm not sure what is not allowed. I'm trying to be vague


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## UserFriendly (Nov 4, 2015)

They do monitor these boards be careful. I think it's good that there are standards, but with the internet of things, SCADA, PLCs, I think more and more controls work is focused on connectivity and interoperability. The 2011 exam spec is short on these types of topics.


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## JHW 3d (Nov 4, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT said:


> Cali_eng: It is commendable that you are attempting a second PE with this life situation. I have always been curious, why do some people like yourself choose to get a second PE after you already have one? Doesn't the first PE allow you to sign Cntly Sys drawings if you felt you were comfortable with it? CSE is a tier two discipline which allows people of other discipline PE to sign control system drawings....just want to make sure you are aware of that ...




In many states it is true that a PE allows you to practice in your "areas of competency" but this is not true with California, evidently. California PE's are restricted to practice only in the field for which they were licensed. Something of a bummer for me, since I just realized this, as well.

Alternate post with more information: http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=25802


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## glockjacket P.E. (Nov 11, 2015)

Anyone take a review course for the CSE exam? was it any good?


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## UserFriendly (Nov 13, 2015)

I would have liked to have taken a review course but at $1855, unless my company was going to pay for it, it just wasn't going to happen.  $600 is probably the most I would have paid out of pocket.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 15, 2015)

UserFriendly said:


> I would have liked to have taken a review course but at $1855, unless my company was going to pay for it, it just wasn't going to happen.  $600 is probably the most I would have paid out of pocket.


I took the course in mid-2014..and found it to be too general and broad of a review...almost no calculations ..mostly theoretical questions were practiced...I didn't feel like it was worth the $1400 they charged for it...IMHO..i feel one is better off spending that money buying references that the exam recommends...and spending the time towards reading all the references...teh guy who taught the course is really nice...but the material we were taught was just not on the exam...I know, not strictly the course's fault..but when you pay approx. $1400 you expect to learn enough to have a good to decent shot at the exam...not so with this course unfortunately....


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## glockjacket P.E. (Nov 15, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT said:


> I took the course in mid-2014..and found it to be too general and broad of a review...almost no calculations ..mostly theoretical questions were practiced...I didn't feel like it was worth the $1400 they charged for it...IMHO..i feel one is better off spending that money buying references that the exam recommends...and spending the time towards reading all the references...teh guy who taught the course is really nice...but the material we were taught was just not on the exam...I know, not strictly the course's fault..but when you pay approx. $1400 you expect to learn enough to have a good to decent shot at the exam...not so with this course unfortunately....


Which course was this? the ISA course?


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 16, 2015)

glockjacket said:


> Which course was this? the ISA course?


Yes, the one offfered by ISA itself. There is no other course available per my knowledge.


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## glockjacket P.E. (Nov 16, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT said:


> Yes, the one offfered by ISA itself. There is no other course available per my knowledge.


Thanks, just checking.Thanks for the review...Very conflicted now


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## CntrlEngrPE (Nov 17, 2015)

glockjacket said:


> Thanks, just checking.Thanks for the review...Very conflicted now


I hear you...it is not easy...again, my recommendation would be to look at the exam syllabus and the study guide..and collect as many references from the study guide as you can...then spend a good 6 months going through all the references...focus on control valves ...and focus on everything about them..installation, design, cost...and instrumentation...and after you do all that...you will find that in the exam there are still questions you have no clue about...  All the best..


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## glockjacket P.E. (Nov 17, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT said:


> I hear you...it is not easy...again, my recommendation would be to look at the exam syllabus and the study guide..and collect as many references from the study guide as you can...then spend a good 6 months going through all the references...focus on control valves ...and focus on everything about them..installation, design, cost...and instrumentation...and after you do all that...you will find that in the exam there are still questions you have no clue about...  All the best..


Thanks!!


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 14, 2015)

So I found out I failed the second time...totally bummed as I studied more and scored less...not sure what went wrong...how about you guys?


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## landolakes (Dec 14, 2015)

I took the ISA classroom course in 2013.... Studied most of the exam prep materials they provided as wells as the green/red books from PPI (had these plus about 10 other reference materials). I took the Oct 2015 and failed. 

The exam was more reference based IMO (I only used my calculator a handful of times compared to FE) and my reference material was not too helpful. I practiced quite a bit for calculations/PID tuning/etc as emphasized in my ISA course and PPI books. I studied according to the syllabus as well, but the exam was not what I expected. The stinker is that the next CSE PE is a year away, in order to take the exam in April I will try out a Mechanical Discipline (Texas gives only 4 testing opportunities to pass before having to re-apply for PE).


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 14, 2015)

Sorry to hear that...I agree, I didnt use the calculator much either..I am so unsure of what went wrong and how to prepare next time around...completely stumped..


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## PinoyPE (Dec 14, 2015)

landolakes;cntrlengreit,

i'm sorry to hear that.
back in may 2015 i was preparing to acquire review materials for PE Controls.There were only  few materials out there.I bought CSE Technical Ref.Manual and the CSE Review manual by Byron Lewis.I checked with ISA and they have 3 day PE review.I was thinking,what possibly can I get from a 3 day PE review class.Since I can not find enough review materials for CSE,I switched to PE-Power.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 14, 2015)

Yeah, probably a good idea taga_ilog...I am not sure you can study hard and pass the controls PE...its completely random..I know how hard I studied because a major promotion was at stake here...and now I will not get it setting me and my family back financially and time-wise...I will switch to another discipline..control systems with its lack of references and sample problems is just not worth it.


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## landolakes (Dec 15, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT - I am in same boat, any advancement for me depends on getting the PE. I originally attempted the Power Electrical class with PPI, but I have been out of EE so long that it was too hard to keep up. My industry is natural gas storage/compression and my job is very multi-disciplinary engineering.  

Mechanical should be pretty straight forward as it covers most engineering concepts plus a general AM session which I feel if the CSE had a general engineering AM session I may have passed.

Best way I can describe the exam was... the preparation materials/class had me study in the X-Y plane, but the exam questions were in the Y-Z plane. For those who passed, I applaud you! For me, I shall be asking for exam prep materials this xmas!


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## Cali_eng (Dec 15, 2015)

I passed it this time, it was my first time taking it. I would not have been surprised if I failed either. If I did fail, I would bring a good pressure relief valve reference the next time. I maybe used my calculator once I don't remember it wasn't very useful. The calculator was essential for the chemical pe exam


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## VanmanCSE (Dec 15, 2015)

Tough exam IMHO.  There were definitely some questions that could have gone either way and some problems that I had no idea how to approach.  It's a real bummer that there aren't more preparation guides out there for the CSE.  That fact alone probably makes this one of the hardest exams out there.  The ISA class is super expensive too and from what I hear only going to get you part way there.  Heck, buying the Liptak texts is a super expensive proposition too.  So I ended up passing and used the ISA tech ref, ISA study guide, ISA sample tests, Jagdish's problems, Fisher valve handbook, most of the germane ISA standards (5.1, 5.2, etc), Anderson's instrumentation handbook and Battikha's instrumentation handbook.  I did NOT fork over the dough for the Liptak books, though I think that would have been a good investment.  I did spend a LOT of time on YouTube going over control system theory lectures.  I found this to be a great exercise because (a) it put me back in a student mindset and (b) allowed me to learn concepts I never applied to control systems.  I did spend some time on the YouTube lectures for Safety Systems.  This was invaluable.  I struggled with this topic most of all.  Highly recommend these.  Remember you can watch YouTube lectures at 1.25x speed or faster to make the most efficient use of your time.

I do have over 18 years experience in the control systems industry and that certainly helped immensely.

I would say by and large this is a very difficult exam.  Just glad to have passed it here in California and hats off to all of you that sat for this beast.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 16, 2015)

VanmanCSE said:


> Tough exam IMHO.  There were definitely some questions that could have gone either way and some problems that I had no idea how to approach.  It's a real bummer that there aren't more preparation guides out there for the CSE.  That fact alone probably makes this one of the hardest exams out there.  The ISA class is super expensive too and from what I hear only going to get you part way there.  Heck, buying the Liptak texts is a super expensive proposition too.  So I ended up passing and used the ISA tech ref, ISA study guide, ISA sample tests, Jagdish's problems, Fisher valve handbook, most of the germane ISA standards (5.1, 5.2, etc), Anderson's instrumentation handbook and Battikha's instrumentation handbook.  I did NOT fork over the dough for the Liptak books, though I think that would have been a good investment.  I did spend a LOT of time on YouTube going over control system theory lectures.  I found this to be a great exercise because (a) it put me back in a student mindset and (b) allowed me to learn concepts I never applied to control systems.  I did spend some time on the YouTube lectures for Safety Systems.  This was invaluable.  I struggled with this topic most of all.  Highly recommend these.  Remember you can watch YouTube lectures at 1.25x speed or faster to make the most efficient use of your time.
> 
> I do have over 18 years experience in the control systems industry and that certainly helped immensely.
> 
> I would say by and large this is a very difficult exam.  Just glad to have passed it here in California and hats off to all of you that sat for this beast.


Congratulations on passing. I agree that when I failed again, I was pretty shocked as I felt I was doing well throughout the exam, but I guess I got tricked. I am completely confused about how to study for it the third time around as there are no other new reference materials available that I may use and have an iota of confidence for passing. I have studied most of the books out there and dont know what to do now. Any advice would be highly appreciated. Do you feel that you needed to have a very deep understanding of the concepts? I hardly used the calculator myself. The prep material just doesnt cover what they ask on the exam.


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 16, 2015)

landolakes said:


> Best way I can describe the exam was... the preparation materials/class had me study in the X-Y plane, but the exam questions were in the Y-Z plane. For those who passed, I applaud you! For me, I shall be asking for exam prep materials this xmas!


Yup! Exactly, the prep fools you into believing that you know something...and the exam is completely different...not sure how to tame this idiotic excuse of a test next year..


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 16, 2015)

Cali_eng said:


> I passed it this time, it was my first time taking it. I would not have been surprised if I failed either. If I did fail, I would bring a good pressure relief valve reference the next time. I maybe used my calculator once I don't remember it wasn't very useful. The calculator was essential for the chemical pe exam


congrats Cali_eng. Any advice on how to pass this exam? Ive been trying since the last two years and failing! I studied four months for this exam and scored 15 points less (40/88) than the first time (55/88). I think I missed the first time by like one or two questions. Anyway, ANY advice would be much appreciated. I want this out of my life. Thanks!


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## Cali_eng (Dec 16, 2015)

CntrlEngrEIT said:


> congrats Cali_eng. Any advice on how to pass this exam? Ive been trying since the last two years and failing! I studied four months for this exam and scored 15 points less (40/88) than the first time (55/88). I think I missed the first time by like one or two questions. Anyway, ANY advice would be much appreciated. I want this out of my life. Thanks!


Thanks, I'm sorry for your struggles. I think the pressure relief specific reference would be helpful, I doubt very many ppl brought this. The more references that you can find would be helpful, if you can find the specific codes and standards. Some of the isa study guide and practice test questions are exactly the same. 

I brought an entire auitcase with me, I don't see how you pass without loads of references. In addition to all of this, I did some googling and came across a Colombian university that had Liptak volumes I&amp;II in pdf. I printed all of those from my work printer. It was one of those things where you have to play around with the URL to get to the root and then the links are all there. 

Finally if I had to take it again, I would learn the proper symbol for a temperature, pressure, flow switch on a loop diagram, I didn't even know these existed and I would study level instrument zeroing and calibration


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## CntrlEngrPE (Dec 16, 2015)

Which pressure relief reference did you bring? I will plan on getting it too. I too had an entire suitcase but obviously that didnt work out. I have Liptaks books so that is not an issue but I went to the Colombian site you mention and downloaded a couple of other resources - thanks. I know the symbols you are talking about..I know of them and also the ISA standard that contains them...and I also studied zeroing and calibration from two separate texts. Oh well, thanks for your inputs anyway. Much appreciated.


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## UserFriendly (Dec 16, 2015)

I passed it and this was my first time taking it as well.  I'm still surprised that I passed, I could have just as easily failed and was prepared for notice of not passing.  I do have over 12 years experience in the industry; I think it helped.  Congrats to those who passed and Good Luck to those who will retake it or take it for the first time.  I think this thread has some good information regarding test taking strategy and useful resources.  Use any sample problems available to get you familiar with your resources.


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## Cali_eng (Dec 25, 2015)

One more piece of somewhat unconventional advice that I would add for test strategy and one which I employ is to try and answer all questions on your first go around and from your first instinct.  Not a lot of problem solving on the CS  so this should be possible. I think a lot of ppl do the paralysis by analysis and change right answers to wrong ones because they feel like they have to take the entire four hours per session. Four hours isn't necessary for CS AM or PM. It's mostly about knowing answers or looking them up in your reference material. Most people should be able to finish with at least an hour to spare. I left both sessions about 90 minutes early. When I left I noticed a lot of folks had almost all the answers bubbled in. Just do a once over check after you're done for any egregious errors and get outta there. I think a lot of folks end up doing themselves more harm by sitting there doing a problem ten times and changing a right answer to a wrong one


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