# PE by comity if you don't have an Engineering degree



## tim1981 (Jul 6, 2011)

If I get my P.E. in a state where it is possible to do so based on experience alone (I have a degree in a science related to engineering but the same question could apply to someone without a degree), then later try to register in a state where an ABET accredited degree is always required, are they really going to turn me down? I'm looking at the requirements for the different states and in some there is no option for 'based on experience alone' or for a related degree. Even with a master's in engineering by the letter of the law I couldn't become registered in these states ever because I don't have an engineering undergraduate degree, even if I have experience stamping drawings in another state and over 15 years experience? That doesn't seem right, and I'm wondering if in practice they aren't that strict once you're in the 'registered in multiple states with over 15 years experience' category. Has anyone known anyone with substantial experience that has been turned down for registration through comity because they don't have an engineering degree?

It isn't of direct interest to me because my state does has both a 'based on experience only' option and an 'ABET equivalent' option that I will qualify for within a few years, but 1) I'm just curious and 2) I'm a little worried that not having the B.S. degree will always haunt me if there are some states that I can never get my PE in.


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## solomonb (Jul 6, 2011)

The real question here is "Did you earn your license in the other state with basically the same requirements of the state that you wish to become licensed in?" If you carefully read the requirements of most state boards, the requirements state that they will award you comity if you earned your original license with the same requirements of the state that you seek comity requires.

Based upon the fact pattern presented, I DO NOT think that the board in the state that you wish to become registered in will allow you to become registered if you did not "take the National Examination" if indeed the state that you wish to become registered in requires you to pass the national examination or some other set of hoops to jump through!

I speak from first hand experience. I had already earned my PE in Texas by virtue of an earned PhD in Engineering. I did NOT have to take the "National Examination" in order to become PE in Texas. (This has since changed-- everyone now has to take the National Examination in order to become a PE in Texas. Only exception are full time faculty members at a Texas University who teach engineering-- even then, they have to take the ethics portion of the examination). I appeared before the Montana board and plead my case. At the time that I did this, several years ago, the Board Chair looked at the staffer. The staffer said, "Mr. XXX did not take the national examination." I said that was true, I did not take the national examination. The board chair stated that if I wanted to become a PE in Montana, I would be required to "take the National Examination." I did take the "National Examination", passed the first time and went happily along my way.

This experience taught me that the easiest way to become licensed is to take the National Examination and be done with it. All of the other ways, in the end, have some challenge that is not worth pursuing. My opinion.


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## Exception Collection (Jul 6, 2011)

tim1981 said:


> If I get my P.E. in a state where it is possible to do so based on experience alone (I have a degree in a science related to engineering but the same question could apply to someone without a degree), then later try to register in a state where an ABET accredited degree is always required, are they really going to turn me down? I'm looking at the requirements for the different states and in some there is no option for 'based on experience alone' or for a related degree. Even with a master's in engineering by the letter of the law I couldn't become registered in these states ever because I don't have an engineering undergraduate degree, even if I have experience stamping drawings in another state and over 15 years experience? That doesn't seem right, and I'm wondering if in practice they aren't that strict once you're in the 'registered in multiple states with over 15 years experience' category. Has anyone known anyone with substantial experience that has been turned down for registration through comity because they don't have an engineering degree?
> It isn't of direct interest to me because my state does has both a 'based on experience only' option and an 'ABET equivalent' option that I will qualify for within a few years, but 1) I'm just curious and 2) I'm a little worried that not having the B.S. degree will always haunt me if there are some states that I can never get my PE in.



Yes, they will turn you down. For example, I don't have a degree, but I passed the exam after meeting the experience only requirements for Washington. I do not meet the licensing requirements in Oregon (where I live and do most of my work), so until I do have enough experience (18 more months; I got my license in 2009) I must work for another engineer (My understanding is that even engineering experience as a licensed engineer doesn't count, unless it's under another engineer - which I think is silly).


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## tim1981 (Jul 7, 2011)

You guys have described two situations similar to, but different than the situation I am talking about. Requiring someone take a test to register in a different state makes sense, and requiring them to wait a number of years before the qualify by experience isn't unexpected. However there are some states that list NO option to register if you do not have an ABET accredited undergraduate degree. This means that by the letter of the law...

An applicant living and working in state A has a B.S. in Physics and a M.S. in Engineering. He works for a number of years and becomes a registered PE in his state, and continues to work there for a total of 20+ years. He now looks into becoming registered in neighboring state B where he wants to do some work, but state B does not have an exception to the ABET undergraduate requirement based on experience. Are they really going to tell a guy in his mid 40s with a graduate degree and 20+ years experience that he needs to go back to undergraduate engineering school to stamp drawings in that state? That sounds crazy.


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## willsee (Jul 7, 2011)

tim1981 said:


> You guys have described two situations similar to, but different than the situation I am talking about. Requiring someone take a test to register in a different state makes sense, and requiring them to wait a number of years before the qualify by experience isn't unexpected. However there are some states that list NO option to register if you do not have an ABET accredited undergraduate degree. This means that by the letter of the law...
> An applicant living and working in state A has a B.S. in Physics and a M.S. in Engineering. He works for a number of years and becomes a registered PE in his state, and continues to work there for a total of 20+ years. He now looks into becoming registered in neighboring state B where he wants to do some work, but state B does not have an exception to the ABET undergraduate requirement based on experience. Are they really going to tell a guy in his mid 40s with a graduate degree and 20+ years experience that he needs to go back to undergraduate engineering school to stamp drawings in that state? That sounds crazy.


Yes they will if they do not have exceptions.


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## tim1981 (Jul 7, 2011)

willsee said:


> Yes they will if they do not have exceptions.


Have you known anyone who tried and was turned down? How many years of experience did they have?


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## willsee (Jul 7, 2011)

Call the board and ask them


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## Road Guy (Jul 7, 2011)

yes they will tell you that depending on what state you are applying to if they dont have the excact or similar requirements.


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## tim1981 (Jul 7, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> yes they will tell you that depending on what state you are applying to if they dont have the excact or similar requirements.


Have you known anyone who got turned down for that reason? What state, and how much experience did they have?


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## tmac0329 (Jul 7, 2011)

I am in the exact situation (related science BS and engineering MS) and have done some research on the issue in various states. Based on reading the minutes from board meetings, it does appear that some states will deny your comity application if you do not meet their education requirements, regardless of your license or experience in other states. NCEES did a survey of the state boards a few years ago, which is a pretty good starting point for determining which states you may be able to get a license by comity. For the states that allow a related science BS, best bet is to then go read their rules and regs to figure out the details. Here is a link to the survey results: https://apps.ncees.org/boardprofile/results...;question_id=87


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## tim1981 (Jul 7, 2011)

tmac0329 said:


> https://apps.ncees.org/boardprofile/results...;question_id=87


This link is very helpful, thanks a lot.


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## palvarez83 (Jul 13, 2011)

Yes, they will turn you down if you do not meet all of the current requirements for licensure in the state to which you are applying at the time of application, regardless of what states have granted it to you.

In my experience, California only requires 2 years of work experience with an accredited BS degree, or 1 year with an "approved" Master's degree. I passed my first P.E. exam when I barely met the 2 year experience mark. Then I learned that I couldn't simply apply for comity in neighboring states. I would have to wait until I had the experience they require, e.g. 4 years beyond degree, ect.


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