# Power Module Afternoon



## odentonpe (Feb 6, 2007)

Any tips on what to study for the afternoon power module. I am looking to focus on the key points but I dont know what they might be? Any help on this topic. Any sample problems that might be good? Your help is greatly appreciated.


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## Dark Knight (Feb 6, 2007)

odentonpe said:


> Any tips on what to study for the afternoon power module. I am looking to focus on the key points but I dont know what they might be? Any help on this topic. Any sample problems that might be good? Your help is greatly appreciated.


Odentope,

First thing, practice with the NEC. There are some practice problems here that might help you. Be sure to review machines(squirrel cage, capacitor start, series,shunt,etc.) Positive,Negative and Zero sequence models are a must. Remember that in a power system the *generator's side of the system does not generate zero sequence component*. No more comments about this. Ahhh....sorry to drop this like that but *have to master phasors*. About the NEC learn to use the tables 310-16, and the tables for Full Load current for 3 phase and single phase motors. Can't remember now but I think these are the tables at Chapter 458. Sorry of I am misleading you in this one. Must be close. Man, I wish I can tell you more but I reset my brain 5 minutes after the test and can't remember too much. That was almost a year ago.

EB has links for practice problems for NEC and machines. Also for Symmetrical Components. If need some help :appl:


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## chaosiscash (Feb 7, 2007)

Make sure you look at transmission lines as well. Motors is NEC 430. Make sure you look at residential wiring stuff in the NEC as well, like section 220. And Luis is right, you have to know phasors and your machine. Make sure you have a calc that will convert rectangular and phasor back a forth quickly. As I think of more I'll stick it up here.

Chaos


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## singlespeed (Feb 7, 2007)

I'll add short circuit calculations (MVA Method) and a transmission problem where you'll have to know how to use Sbase, to the excellent suggestions made by Luis and Chaosiscash.

I don't remember much of the exam (Oct '06), but then I never did - I was totally wiped out when I left that room. I felt that work experience was just as important as theory in the PM - since I was a little short on first hand experience, I felt at a disadvantage.

The odd thing though is, that is seems like that exam gets easier and easier every day - before you know it, I'll be telling stories about how I finished the AM section 2 hours early, went to the pub and pounded a six-pack of Coor's Light with a seared tuna sandwhich for lunch, then returning to tackle the PM section, and taking my time to finish that in 90 minutes while sipping 12-year old scotch from a flask.  :appl:


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## grover (Feb 7, 2007)

There were a lot more power transmission questions than I expected! The NCEES practice exam was a huge help, and all the questions were of that style and difficulty. I had NEC down cold because I use it all the time, but they only asked 2 NEC questions in the last test, but very few problems dealing with commercial power. I just wish they had given 120 questions in that practice exam so as to cover ALL the bases... as it was, I was left hanging on a good many problems. Make sure you know per-unit calculations well, too. EERM had a lot of the material, but it's by no means comprehensive enough to get you through the power afternoon exam.



> The odd thing though is, that is seems like that exam gets easier and easier every day - before you know it, I'll be telling stories about how I finished the AM section 2 hours early, went to the pub and pounded a six-pack of Coor's Light with a seared tuna sandwhich for lunch, then returning to tackle the PM section, and taking my time to finish that in 90 minutes while sipping 12-year old scotch from a flask.


Funny you should mention that- I fished both sections with over 2 hours to spare. But I was so nervious about failing, I used every second I had to check and recheck the questions I'd answered, and research the questions I had no clue on.


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## Wolverine (Feb 7, 2007)

singlespeed said:


> I felt that work experience was just as important as theory in the PM - since I was a little short on first hand experience, I felt at a disadvantage.


I was just talking to somebody today something along those same lines - there were several problems that I knew only from experience and would have had little clue on except for having been there/done that. But on the flip side, I expect that any experienced engineer will find the same - things you just know either by subject or problem, where another person would have no clue. Maybe you had a good Communications Theory prof in college, where I just stared and made deet-de-dee noises on those.

I will second that by simply studying the NCEES practice exam, you can get a pretty good feel for what you'll find, especially when you see the same general type of problem again and again. There are only so many ways of connecting a transmission line to a load. Motors also. Some practical understanding of relaying, 3-phase, per unit, and power correction is important too I would say. And as often said, NEC, Econ, and Logic can be gimmes so gotta know those.

As for my story, I finished both sections in an hour and actually ended up acing the PM session. As I left, the hottie proctor was so impressed she asked if I wanted to get together later to discuss synchronous torque. I was late for surgery though and had to decline.


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## singlespeed (Feb 7, 2007)

Wolverine said:


> As for my story, I finished both sections in an hour and actually ended up acing the PM session. As I left, the hottie proctor was so impressed she asked if I wanted to get together later to discuss synchronous torque. I was late for surgery though and had to decline.


-_-


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## Timmy! (Feb 23, 2007)

I'd offer the following advice..."The main thing is, 'Don't get excited'".

#1) I took the Electrical PE exam in April 2006 with the PM "Power" module, and was stunned. I studied 43 hours (and 45 minutes) and passed. No, I ain't no rocket scientist, but all I did was look at typical Six-Minute Solutions problems and tried to learn conceptual knowledge--"how would I attack this problem?". Lots of the problems were so easy, I couldn't believe what I was seeing; there were questions you could look at and solve in 30 seconds. Yes, I flunked the exam in Oct. 1999 and Oct. 2000 [albeit under the dreaded "old format"]. I was borderline ashamed when I passed, as I still to this day attribute my licensure to the continued "dumbing down of America".

#2) Don't attempt to solve a single problem until you've read everyone of them. Categorize them by difficulty as "E" for easy, "M" for medium, and "H" for hard. Solve them in that respective order.

#3) Strive to kick ass on the AM section. I solved 28 of the 40 AM problems by 10:20, which makes a feller feel good in knowing that he only has 12 problems to solve in the next 100 minutes. The confidence will carry over into the PM session.

#4) Take some aspirin with you. My head was exploding halfway through the AM session.

#5) Keep everything in perspective. Yes, it is an important exam that upon passing, opens many career doors. No, it is not Auschwitz 1944, when you don't even know if you'll be alive at the end of the day. If you do not pass, you at least get a second chance.

And for what it's worth, I'm taking the Civil WR exam this April.


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## benbo (Feb 25, 2007)

Timmy! said:


> I'd offer the following advice..."The main thing is, 'Don't get excited'".
> #1) I took the Electrical PE exam in April 2006 with the PM "Power" module, and was stunned. I studied 43 hours (and 45 minutes) and passed. No, I ain't no rocket scientist, but all I did was look at typical Six-Minute Solutions problems and tried to learn conceptual knowledge--"how would I attack this problem?". Lots of the problems were so easy, I couldn't believe what I was seeing; there were questions you could look at and solve in 30 seconds. Yes, I flunked the exam in Oct. 1999 and Oct. 2000 [albeit under the dreaded "old format"]. I was borderline ashamed when I passed, as I still to this day attribute my licensure to the continued "dumbing down of America".
> 
> #2) Don't attempt to solve a single problem until you've read everyone of them. Categorize them by difficulty as "E" for easy, "M" for medium, and "H" for hard. Solve them in that respective order.
> ...


I'm curious why you would want to waste your time taking another PE exam? Is this required by your job or womething? You seem to have a low regard for the test, I'm wondering what benefit you derive from spending another 8 hours in the exam?


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## grover (Feb 26, 2007)

benbo said:


> I'm curious why you would want to waste your time taking another PE exam? Is this required by your job or womething? You seem to have a low regard for the test, I'm wondering what benefit you derive from spending another 8 hours in the exam?


Some states restrict PEs to practicing only in the discipline they've passed. Here in VA, I can pass EEower and still stamp structural calculations for bridges. Not so in other states.


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## Freon (Feb 26, 2007)

Odentonpe,

I'll echo what Luis and Grover stated above. Know where things are in the NEC and how to use the key tables, but there are no "trick questions" on the exam. I would add that spending a few minutes reviewing simple items like power factor correction, transformer open- and short-circuit test, motor properties, and grounding. Call it confidence-building if nothing else.

Freon, P.E. (Out of exile, but my golf game still stinks)


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## Timmy! (Mar 4, 2007)

Odentonpe:

I apologize if I came across as a bit smarmy, as that was not my intent. One of two things happened when I took the Electrical PE exam last Spring: 1) they asked me everything I knew, or 2) they made it a lot easier than what I minimally prepared for. I hope I set a record for the least amount of hours studied for licensure.

I encourage younger engineers to seek and obtain licensure, as it is a good career move. I did Civil work for 20 years before I decided to quit and get a degree in EE at age 37 [because I liked math--I graduated from college at age 40].

I got approved to take the Civil exam in my state, and I thought I'd go for it.

My fundamental problem with this entire exercise is the carrot-and-stick gig that Lindeburg, Testmasters, and God knows who else are taking advantage of. Yeah, licensure is great because it's a good career move. As a PE, I earn now in one month than what I used to gross in an entire year [which is a damning indictment as to how old I am]. What I have trouble with is that an entire cottage industry has sprung up, which has the singular aim of sucking dollars from our collective wallets as we pursue the Holy Grail of licensure. I'm 52 years old, and have sprung through enough hoops to recognize a dog-and-pony show when I see one.

FWIW, when I took the EE exam last Spring, there wasn't a single electromagnetics problem [my favorite college course]. How the hell can you test an Electrical Engineer candidate for licensure without asking a single emag problem? My gist is that, when you start reviewing the test, don't be stunned as to the focus of the questions. You might expect to see three NEC code questions on the test; there might be 7. You might not see a single symmetrical components question; there could be three.

Study conceptual information and don't waste your time memorizing equations.


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## singlespeed (Mar 12, 2007)

Timmy! said:


> FWIW, when I took the EE exam last Spring, there wasn't a single electromagnetics problem [my favorite college course]. How the hell can you test an Electrical Engineer candidate for licensure without asking a single emag problem?


You must be seriously twisted :blink: ODE, Laplace, z, and Fourier transforms are well within my limits of understanding, substitution and integration by parts - no problem, but the emag stuff really bends my mind!

And, I don't remember any emag problems showing up on the test I took either.


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## pete25 (Jul 3, 2007)

Freon said:


> Odentonpe,
> I'll echo what Luis and Grover stated above. Know where things are in the NEC and how to use the key tables, but there are no "trick questions" on the exam. I would add that spending a few minutes reviewing simple items like power factor correction, transformer open- and short-circuit test, motor properties, and grounding. Call it confidence-building if nothing else.
> 
> Freon, P.E. (Out of exile, but my golf game still stinks)



Timmy,

Being that you are very skeptical about all the outfits who sell Electrical PE exam prep material; what material would you recommend based on your experienc? I plan on taking the exam in OCT. 2007 w/Power Module afternoon and I am concerned because I have been overwhelmed by the amount of study material out there. Your input will certainly be appreciated.

Pete


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## mudpuppy (Jul 3, 2007)

Luis said:


> *generator's side of the system does not generate zero sequence component*.


Since this has already been bumped, sorry I have to comment, just to clarify.

A grounded-wye generator is a zero-sequence source for ground faults on the generator's system. It would also be a zero-sequence source for system faults if the generator step-up transformer (GSU) allows zero-sequence to pass (e.g. a grounded-wye/grounded-wye GSU).

HOWEVER, in practice, most large generators are grounded through an impedance to minimize zero-sequence and most GSU's have at least one delta winding to isolate the zero-sequence sources of the generator and the system. In this case, for a ground fault on the transmission system, there would be no zero-sequence contribution from the generator. I assume this is the case Luis is talking about. Sorry to be nitpicky, but who knows what kind of oddball stuff they might throw at you.

This brings up an interesting question, too. Has anyone ever come across a delta-connected generator? I haven't really thought about the implications of this before; every generator I've seen is wye.


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## Carrameow (Jun 11, 2008)

*I passed. I passed. *

Which means the passing score wasn't that high. I still dont think I did that well, but a factor for toughness of the exam was factored in. I bet the passing score was like 48, or lower. Anyway, who cares, now.

*I passed. I passed. *

Nevertheless, gas is $4.54 a gallon. I am getting older. i still have bills to pay. I still have a car to fix. There is still no sun in Seattle as of June 11. What does this mean?

I mean shouldn't i get a royal title? Like the Prince of Moldavo? and maybe 90K deposited in my bank account-- arty-smiley-048:


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## Carrameow (Jun 11, 2008)

Now that I've passed shouldn't my life change big time? A Ferrari, a castle for a house, a private island...?

Of course here are my major life changes!!!

I get to put away the big box of book i was saving to reuse in case I had to retake the October 2008 exam

I get to take about 2 meg of files off of my computer

I slept in late 10 extra minutes today

Maybe I will have an extra large coffee at Starbucks instead of McDonald's

:multiplespotting:


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## Carrameow (Jun 11, 2008)

A Caribbean cruise? A trip to the Maldave islands? A couple of $300 suits? A new Rolex?

:multiplespotting:

kind of. Maybe i will take the long way home tonight and buy a pair of sneakers tonight.


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