# non-eng job after college



## lavn4

Hi, I'm a chemical engineering undergrad. So the university I currently go to (will not be named) is not exactly highly-ranked and so I've heard, on average, it takes the average chem engineering grad about a year after graduation to find a salaried engineering-related job.

I'm actually not interested in working right after I graduate, at least not in anything related to chemical engineering. I know that sounds really odd and silly and non-practical, but I want to relax, work part time, and do something non-technical, before I start being a salaried full time engineer, and work 50-70 hour work weeks.

I plan on working at a restaurant or retail or tutoring for about a year, before I start officially job hunting in the fields I'm interested in. Which, based on the information I just told you, means it may be another two years before I land a job, which I'm fine with.

I'm just wondering how will I look to potential hiring managers? What should I say when they ask "how come you haven't gotten a job yet, out of college, after two years?" Also, will my resume be looking weak, since all my school-related chem engineering experience will be two years old at the youngest?

Any advice or information would be much appreciated.

Note: I'm not interested in a masters or PhD until I can afford it.


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## Dleg

I wouldn't recommend it. Competition is pretty tough these days for new engineers, from what I gather. Being a slacker for a year will pretty much knock you out of the running, IMO.

If you don't want to be an engineer, change your degree. If you don't want to work in some "typical engineering job" that you have pictured in your mind, then consider some other types of jobs. Some types of difficult-living-and-working conditions field jobs will hire just about anyone, on the premise that 95% will not be able to handle the work. When I graduated, I was not interested in sitting at a desk and being a part of a giant engineering office, working on one small piece of some huge project (aerospace was the big hirer at the time), so I took a field engineer job with an oilfield services company, and got something entirely different than a 50 hour week behind a desk - a 100 hour week in the field.

I don't want to be rude, but if there is a fact of life, it is that everyone eventually discovers they have to "work". My advise to you would be to suck it up and take whatever job you can get when you graduate. The easier times tend to come later in one's career, not earlier. Work hard now, and better jobs will open up to you. Slack off now, and you very well may never get that first job - believe me, I have met plenty of people with engineering degrees, who are now teachers or even lifeguards, after having taken some "time off" after graduation.


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## udpolo15

I agree with Dleg. you will start competing with fresh grads with and I would much rather higher someone fresh out of school than someone who took a year off to work an entry level job, let alone a part-time job.

It sounds like you would have been better off going to school part-time just taking longer to graduate.


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## MadDawg

No offense, but the time to work non-technical, part-time jobs is while you're in school (and I'd even go further and say high school--interning or co-oping in college is a huge resume boost), unless of course your circumstances require it (i.e., illness, layoff, etc.). The job market nowadays is tough, and taking a year off after college to "relax" will probably raise some questions in the hiring managers' minds about your commitment.


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## frazil

I understand needing some time off before starting a career. But I would encourage you to do something that will look better on a resume than retail. I took a year off ( or several...) between years at college, and someone suggested Americorps VISTA, so I applied.

I spent a year working in a rural community and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Later on it actually opened job opportunities by giving my resume an edge. If you eventually want to be an engineer but feel you need a break, then spend a year doing something worthwhile or future employers will think you just don't want to work.


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## lavn4

frazil said:


> I understand needing some time off before starting a career. But I would encourage you to do something that will look better on a resume than retail. I took a year off ( or several...) between years at college, and someone suggested Americorps VISTA, so I applied.
> I spent a year working in a rural community and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Later on it actually opened job opportunities by giving my resume an edge. If you eventually want to be an engineer but feel you need a break, then spend a year doing something worthwhile or future employers will think you just don't want to work.



Thank you! Do you think teaching be good as well? Like a "Teach English abroad" program?

To others: Thank you for your advice. To address one of your concerns: I definitely want to become a chemical engineer, I just don't want to go straight into it. I've met so many engineers who have been working for years and years, and have been stressed since the day they started. Don't get me wrong, I know I can do it, I just want to have some freedom before I give it all up.


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## ALBin517

A friend from softball got his civil degree but decided to relax and work his part-time bar job for another couple months after graduation.

Fast forward about four years - he applied to take the PE exam and was two weeks short on work experience. All his classmates got to take the exam six months before he did.


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## MA_PE

I'm having difficulty with the concept that you want to study Chem Eng, graduate with a degree, and then put it on hold.

Seems to me the better route is to put the whole engineering thing on hold and take your non-technical relaxed job break now.

Then get back on track, got to and complete your degree and continue on and pursue a job in that field. You also say that your school doesn't have a strong reputation in your selected field. Maybe it's a good opportunity to rethink the whole thing and apply to a school with a stronger ChemEng program when you get ready to make the Chem Eng committment.

Just my 0.02.


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## menstrom

Get a real job! And a haircut! And get off my lawn!!

If you want to delay your big-person job, at least do something you can put on your resume. I had several friends do the fraternity/sorority cosultant or study abroad routes with success. Or try to get a sales gig in the same realm you eventually want to become a designer. Just don't leave it so your only story is "I wasn't ready to work full-time yet."


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## jv21

Stay in College! travel for a semester instead of class, or take up a minor, or something if you want to prolong going to work.... But dont' graduate and do nothing. It will really work against you.


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## snickerd3

Take the time now if you want extended freedom. Don't wait until after the degree is obtained. Companies will look at it badly, I have friends with ChE degree dealing with that. Not sure what sort of freedom you are trying to obtain...just a period to get over the college burnout? It really doesn't take that long to get over it. Find that job and just make your start a month after grad.

Working retail is a PITA, been there done that, not sure why you would want to do that after obtaining the degree to prevent that scenario in the first place.

Travel is still possible when working fulltime...it might take another yr or 2 to built up the time, but is possible.


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## FusionWhite

Retail? Part-time? Seriously? Thats some bullshit. Get to work.

Sorry my answer is snippy but after re-reading the OP it seems to me like you want some validation for being a slacker. The best way to get over college burnout is to realize that any engineering job is going to pay you a shit ton more then some BS retail job. And you can use that money to do fun stuff during a week minus the 40 hours your at work.


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## NEED2009

Get a job put all your learn into society. Why waste your talent on a retail job?


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## frazil

This reminds me of the day I finished my final exam in my final semester at college. I was so totally burnt out and tired. As I walked out to an absolutely beautiful Spring day, there was a guy mowing the lawn on the campus. I thought to myself, I have no desire to start working a stressful desk job. Wouldn't life be better if I could just ride a lawnmower around on a warm, sunny day?

Then as I passed closer to the guy, I saw his face...the answer was definitely no.


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## Dleg

Peace Corps. I know a few engineers who went into the Peace Corps right after school. Two of them have had successful engineering careers, one became a teacher. Plus, it gets your foot in the door for federal employment after you're done.


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## lavn4

Thank you everybody for your advice. I understand it doesn't look too good that I don't go straight into full time engineering work after college, but it's something I know I need. I understand that this is difficult to relate to since many of you did not consider such a route after graduation. Regardless, I'm grateful for everybody's advice, but I'm especially grateful to those who suggested taking a break now, americorps, delaying graduation, and peacecorps. These are all good options, much better than what I had in mind, and I am sure I will end up doing one of them.

Thanks again, everybody. Happy holidays!


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## ironman

I would not delay graduation because some schools recycle credits also most upper division classes require you to know the previous material so if it gets rusty thoes 400 level classes could get alot harder. You want that piece of paper, you dont want additional classes looming over your head while you are trying to relax. I did not work for a year (not even part time) after graduation (but that was not from choice) and I eventually got a 40 hr week design job and went on to get my PE and am working on a masters part time while I work in EE (I am a chemE for my BS). If a hiring manager asks why you were unemployed just say the economy was bad and nothing turned up.


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## Roy T.

you are asking the wrong crowd here man. this is an "engineer board" so the responses you are going to get -- sorry bout this but it's true -- aren't exactly going to be too worldly and wise.

I have many friends who graduated with business degrees many years ago and "took it easy" for a year... or more.. started out working retail... travelled, worked in bars... then went on to make mega bucks with whatever company they finally wound up in moving quickly up the corporate ladder.

Several of these guys traveled the world... backpacked in asia... learned a little chinese... I don't think they ever had little voices in their head telling them they are slackers... at least i never got that impression.

but I am sure now they have plenty of engineer employees well down below them on the corporate ladder.

sad but true.

washing machines work very hard but are not highly compensated.


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## Dleg

So are you recommending he change his degree to finances, or business management????

What works in one profession doesn't work in another. Yes, he was asking engineers BECAUSE HE IS TRYING TO BE ONE. He didn't ask what it takes to be a suck-up, all-for-one ladder climber.


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## Sleepy

OP, I don't mean to ruin the fun for you...but I've been looking for entry level jobs and most of them ask for someone who has been out of school less than a year. Your job application may not look as good compared to a young pup, with the same education and work experience, that has just finished school and been actively searching.

Even if you work for fancy companies/organizations, if it is out of your field, it still raises some questions about your commitment to the profession that you pick. Just apply for a job in your field here and there. By the time, you score a real one, you are probably bored with your non-engineering job already.

my :2cents:


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## Nucky

This is my 2 cents but is there anything you can do in the "trades" for a short period of time that relates to Chemical Engineering. I am an EE (power) and am not familiar with all the opportunities available in the chemical industry however, maybe you could work "on the line" for Dow Chemical or something to that effect. Do manual labor. It will give you exposure to the industry and give you a good idea of where you want to go as a Chemical Engineer. For example, as a Power EE, I always thought it would have been good experience to work for a Utility Company or for a Contractor in the field as an electrician/lineman's apprentice. It will make you a better engineer.


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## Capt Worley PE

Just MHO, but I'd have a hard time hiring anyone who couldn't come up with a better excuse for the time after graduation than, "I just needed to have some time off."

YMMV.


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## Bean PE

All else being equal, I'd rather hire someone who took a year off to be a ski bum than someone fresh out of school. But then again, most people making hiring decisions are baby boomers who think that you're wasting your life if you aren't spending it working yourself to death.


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## tomp

Also note - if you have student loans, those are going to come due. You get 6 months after graduation and then you gotta start paying that money back.


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## picusld

Capt Worley PE said:


> Just MHO, but I'd have a hard time hiring anyone who couldn't come up with a better excuse for the time after graduation than, "I just needed to have some time off."
> YMMV.


I WOULD NOT hire anyone who couldn't come up with a better excuse for the time after graduation than, "I just needed to have some time off."

I would recommend applying for federal gov jobs. It takes them about a year to make decisions anyway...


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## ironman

tomp said:


> Also note - if you have student loans, those are going to come due. You get 6 months after graduation and then you gotta start paying that money back.


Student loans are going to become the next american debt crisis, some loans are federally gaurenteed but alot of preexisting loans are not and most people are defaulting on them because they paid more for the degree than it was worth and what they can earn.

I was looking into doing an online masters in EE because my local university has a BS but not an MS program in EE yet, places like purdue, etc wanted 1000$ a credit, not 1000$ a class but 1000$ a credit, I was way excited about the program until I saw the sticker, I emailed them and told them that their tuition was cost prohibitive by many orders of magnitude, they just said thats what it costs. We will see how long these educational institutions can maintain these outragious rates since majority of people cant get jobs right out of school and people are not make the wages to justify thoes tuition rates.

We will see what happens, but I do know one thing, I am not paying 3 grand a class for a masters, about 1k a class is my limit. If I cant do it for that I dont need it that bad, besides EE's are not making more than ChE's anyways, they offer a few 600 level EE classes at my uni now so I will take thoes and see what happens in the years to come.

As another poster stated it will be nice to see the baby boomer mentality slowly get weeded out, unfortunatly they have not retired or died yet and their leadership is taking its toll on gen xers.


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## benbo

ironman said:


> As another poster stated it will be nice to see the baby boomer mentality slowly get weeded out, unfortunatly they have not retired or died yet and their leadership is taking its toll on gen xers.


I'm sure the poster who made that comment takes great pride in the fact that you are in agreement with him.


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## Capt Worley PE

Bean PE said:


> All else being equal, I'd rather hire someone who took a year off to be a ski bum than someone fresh out of school. But then again, most people making hiring decisions are baby boomers who think that you're wasting your life if you aren't spending it working yourself to death.


That attitude is from the greatest generation; the ones that lived through the depression and WWII.


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## Bean PE

Capt Worley PE said:


> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> All else being equal, I'd rather hire someone who took a year off to be a ski bum than someone fresh out of school. But then again, most people making hiring decisions are baby boomers who think that you're wasting your life if you aren't spending it working yourself to death.
> 
> 
> 
> That attitude is from the greatest generation; the ones that lived through the depression and WWII.
Click to expand...

It isn't. Boomers are the ones to think nothing of a 60 hour work week and would rather have a two-hour 5pm meeting than see their families.

Note that I wouldn't want to hire someone who took a year off to sit on the couch eating cheetos and playing Call of Duty, but someone doing something worthwhile with their time because they realize they'll never get that chance again is, IMO, a better person to hire.

edit:



> Baby boomers (born between 1946-1964) are drawn to:• long hours at the office, including evenings and weekends
> 
> • building their career over the long term and loyalty to their employer
> 
> • viewing themselves and their career as one and the same
> 
> • commitment to quality and doing a good job
> 
> • “hanging tough” through difficult work situations and policies
> 
> • finding solutions to problems
> 
> • being in charge and respecting authority


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## Capt Worley PE

Bean PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> All else being equal, I'd rather hire someone who took a year off to be a ski bum than someone fresh out of school. But then again, most people making hiring decisions are baby boomers who think that you're wasting your life if you aren't spending it working yourself to death.
> 
> 
> 
> That attitude is from the greatest generation; the ones that lived through the depression and WWII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't. Boomers are the ones to think nothing of a 60 hour work week and would rather have a two-hour 5pm meeting than see their families.
Click to expand...

Most of the greatest generation had retired by the late eighties. I had the pleasure of working with a few of them. Those guys would do wahtever it takes.

Now I have known boomers that did what you desrcibe, but it was more of an image/power trip thing for them.



> Note that I wouldn't want to hire someone who took a year off to sit on the couch eating cheetos and playing Call of Duty, but someone doing something worthwhile with their time because they realize they'll never get that chance again is, IMO, a better person to hire.


If someone gave me the answer, "because I'd never get a chance to do it again' it shows me they can't think beyond the immediate. I assure you my parents take trips far more lavish after they retired than they could have had they taken them the year after school. A lot more of them, too.


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## Bean PE

Capt Worley PE said:


> If someone gave me the answer, "because I'd never get a chance to do it again' it shows me they can't think beyond the immediate. I assure you my parents take trips far more lavish after they retired than they could have had they taken them the year after school. A lot more of them, too.


A 65 year-old is not physically capable of a 120 ski-day winter full of storm chasing and mountaineering. Old people can blow big wads of cash on luxurious vacations, young people can actually do something in their time off.


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## Capt Worley PE

Bean PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone gave me the answer, "because I'd never get a chance to do it again' it shows me they can't think beyond the immediate. I assure you my parents take trips far more lavish after they retired than they could have had they taken them the year after school. A lot more of them, too.
> 
> 
> 
> A 65 year-old is not physically capable of a 120 ski-day winter full of storm chasing and mountaineering. Old people can blow big wads of cash on luxurious vacations, young people can actually do something in their time off.
Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

FWIW, 'took a year off to ski' would definitely NOT get a good response from me.


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## Bean PE

Capt Worley PE said:


> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone gave me the answer, "because I'd never get a chance to do it again' it shows me they can't think beyond the immediate. I assure you my parents take trips far more lavish after they retired than they could have had they taken them the year after school. A lot more of them, too.
> 
> 
> 
> A 65 year-old is not physically capable of a 120 ski-day winter full of storm chasing and mountaineering. Old people can blow big wads of cash on luxurious vacations, young people can actually do something in their time off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
> 
> FWIW, 'took a year off to ski' would definitely NOT get a good response from me.
Click to expand...

Of course it wouldn't, you're a typical boomer. "I worked myself to death so I could blow wads of cash on a luxurious vacation once I was too old to do anything else" would get a huge  along with a bit of pity from me.

Boomers do not understand the younger generation, plain and simple. Why they are responsible for hiring them is beyond me.


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## FLBuff PE

Man the trebuchets!


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## RIP - VTEnviro

Bean PE said:


> Baby boomers (born between 1946-1964) are drawn to:• long hours at the office, including evenings and weekends
> 
> • building their career over the long term and loyalty to their employer
> 
> • viewing themselves and their career as one and the same
> 
> • commitment to quality and doing a good job
> 
> • “hanging tough” through difficult work situations and policies
> 
> • finding solutions to problems
> 
> • being in charge and respecting authority
Click to expand...

You say it like it's a bad thing...


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## CbusPaul

I'm not sure it's the younger generation that feels that taking a 120-day ski vacation is a worthwhile use of their time. I'd say the majority of people in the younger generation who go to college, who aren't of the entitled ilk, would rather make use of their degree and go to work, especially the engineers.

You speak of the entitled mindframe. Not the gen x/ gen y mindframe.


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## Bean PE

CbusPaul said:


> I'm not sure it's the younger generation that feels that taking a 120-day ski vacation is a worthwhile use of their time. I'd say the majority of people in the younger generation who go to college, who aren't of the entitled ilk, would rather make use of their degree and go to work, especially the engineers.
> You speak of the entitled mindframe. Not the gen x/ gen y mindframe.


Taking a winter off to play in the mountains was just one possible example. How is someone taking a low-paying, low-responsibility job and living cheap to do whatever it is they want to do before they're locked into a career one of an "entitled mindframe" (mindset?)? One friend of mine took a year off and traveled Europe after graduating, and now has a pretty great job. I went straight to work; I wish I hadn't, as there's something I'd love to do that is essentially impossible without a huge stockpile of vacation time.

You sound like yet another boomer who doesn't understand younger generations.


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## Bean PE

VTEnviro said:


> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baby boomers (born between 1946-1964) are drawn to:• long hours at the office, including evenings and weekends
> 
> • building their career over the long term and loyalty to their employer
> 
> • viewing themselves and their career as one and the same
> 
> • commitment to quality and doing a good job
> 
> • “hanging tough” through difficult work situations and policies
> 
> • finding solutions to problems
> 
> • being in charge and respecting authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say it like it's a bad thing...
Click to expand...

The last four of those aren't bad things, generally. Long hours, loyalty to an organization that has none to you, and inability to distinguish work from life are anything but good.


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## ironman

Capt Worley PE said:


> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> All else being equal, I'd rather hire someone who took a year off to be a ski bum than someone fresh out of school. But then again, most people making hiring decisions are baby boomers who think that you're wasting your life if you aren't spending it working yourself to death.
> 
> 
> 
> That attitude is from the greatest generation; the ones that lived through the depression and WWII.
Click to expand...

Baby boomers were the kids of thoes who lived through WW2 and the great depression, the generation that lived through the great depression and WW2 is probably the greatest generation to ever live in the USA , I personally worked with the PE that stamped all my time off and he was born in 21 (the parent of the boomer), that was a very rare opprotunity indeed. They are rare though because most of them are dead now. He was in the WW2 army air corps as WW2 was comming to a close.

Unfortunatly for me my goals involve both large amounts of time off and large sums of money so it would have done me no good to take time off after school, I am hoping I can build up the time off (or leave without pay) and the money to do what I want before im to old, if not hopefully God will let me do it in heaven without all the strings that come attached here on earth.


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## Fudgey

Bean PE said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baby boomers (born between 1946-1964) are drawn to:• long hours at the office, including evenings and weekends
> 
> • building their career over the long term and loyalty to their employer
> 
> • viewing themselves and their career as one and the same
> 
> • commitment to quality and doing a good job
> 
> • “hanging tough” through difficult work situations and policies
> 
> • finding solutions to problems
> 
> • being in charge and respecting authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say it like it's a bad thing...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The last four of those aren't bad things, generally. Long hours, loyalty to an organization that has none to you, and inability to distinguish work from life are anything but good.
Click to expand...

You want a great job that pays well and has benefits, prestige, etc....yet you don't want to work for it.

Might I suggest a job on the night crew at a McDonald's in France?



ironman said:


> Baby boomers were the kids of thoes who lived through WW2 and the great depression, the generation that lived through the great depression and WW2 is probably the greatest generation to ever live in the USA , I personally worked with the PE that stamped all my time off and he was born in 21 (the parent of the boomer), that was a very rare opprotunity indeed. They are rare though because most of them are dead now. *He was in the WW2 army air corps *as WW2 was comming to a close.


Which branch did you go AWOL from? It's been a while so I forget.


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## Bean PE

Fudgey said:


> You want a great job that pays well and has benefits, prestige, etc....yet you don't want to work for it.


How did you come to that conclusion? If "working for it" means 60+ hour work weeks, then no, I don't want to work for it. But no one else will either soon, as the only generation left who sees the active pursuit of burnout as a good thing will be retiring in a few years. I'm more than happy to get my work done on my time. Being expected to sit at my desk for several extra hours a day just to put in "face time" is ridiculous and antequated.

Why do you advocate driving down the average hourly wage of engineers everywhere?


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## Otter

Isn't this an indictment of our entire American society?

Well you can do what you want to us but we won't sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!

Gentlemen!


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## Dleg

I guess I just fall outside the "definition" of the Boomer generation, although I would have never considered myself a part of it. What scares me though is this attitude that work and responsibility and such are for old people. Who's going to do the work when the "old people" are gone? I think what you are ascribing to "boomers" is really just an age phenomenon. If not, then what you are describing is societal decadence, which, historically, immediately precedes the destruction of a society....

So yeah, have fun skiing now, because ski vacations might not even be an option in 20 years or so, once the old folks who did all the work are gone, and the economy is in tatters and all the hard workers have moved the China and other countries to follow the wealth. It's all about balance. On the one hand we all want to have our fun (I always though I was gen x?). On the other, there won't be any fun to be had if we're all out there having fun, instead of working.


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## benbo

Bean PE said:


> CbusPaul said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it's the younger generation that feels that taking a 120-day ski vacation is a worthwhile use of their time. I'd say the majority of people in the younger generation who go to college, who aren't of the entitled ilk, would rather make use of their degree and go to work, especially the engineers.
> You speak of the entitled mindframe. Not the gen x/ gen y mindframe.
> 
> 
> 
> Taking a winter off to play in the mountains was just one possible example. How is someone taking a low-paying, low-responsibility job and living cheap to do whatever it is they want to do before they're locked into a career one of an "entitled mindframe" (mindset?)? One friend of mine took a year off and traveled Europe after graduating, and now has a pretty great job. I went straight to work; I wish I hadn't, as there's something I'd love to do that is essentially impossible without a huge stockpile of vacation time.
> 
> You sound like yet another boomer who doesn't understand younger generations.
Click to expand...

I'm a boomer with a job I love. I haven't worked over 40 hours in 7 years.

My last job I put in a little overtime, but I travelled extensively in Europe and Asia on the company dime. That part of it was a blast.

But to each their own. I guess my main question would be, why don't you quit your job and do this thing you really want to do? It doesn't seem any more risky than what you're recommending for this new grad. I don't see what's stopping you.


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## MGX

Maybe its just me but someone who takes a year off after graduation to work menial jobs seems like a red flag. Don't you have loans etc to pay back? Shouldn't you be getting after it and getting experience so you can get promoted and take sweet vacations with the family and enjoy what you've worked for?

I might think about what you've described since we all get worn down at times but would not do it. The working world isn't as tough as school in my experience.


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## Capt Worley PE

Bean PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bean PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone gave me the answer, "because I'd never get a chance to do it again' it shows me they can't think beyond the immediate. I assure you my parents take trips far more lavish after they retired than they could have had they taken them the year after school. A lot more of them, too.
> 
> 
> 
> A 65 year-old is not physically capable of a 120 ski-day winter full of storm chasing and mountaineering. Old people can blow big wads of cash on luxurious vacations, young people can actually do something in their time off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
> 
> FWIW, 'took a year off to ski' would definitely NOT get a good response from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course it wouldn't, you're a typical boomer.
Click to expand...

Nope, GenX.



> Boomers do not understand the younger generation, plain and simple. Why they are responsible for hiring them is beyond me.


"Nobody understands me!"

The wail of the lazy.



Dleg said:


> So yeah, have fun skiing now, because ski vacations might not even be an option in 20 years or so, once the old folks who did all the work are gone, and the economy is in tatters and all the hard workers have moved the China and other countries to follow the wealth. It's all about balance. On the one hand we all want to have our fun (I always though I was gen x?). On the other, there won't be any fun to be had if we're all out there having fun, instead of working.


This.


----------



## CbusPaul

Let me clarify that I am from the younger generation and was raised to believe that you work hard then you play hard. You don't play hard without any of the work. I am turning 30 this year and have worked since I was 15. I found college to be a stepping stone from hard work landscaping, mcdonald's, etc. to a job that I enjoyed and allows me to play.

Who is paying for this ski vacation, dare I ask?


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## Capt Worley PE

CbusPaul said:


> Let me clarify that I am from the younger generation and was raised to believe that you work hard then you play hard. You don't play hard without any of the work. I am turning 30 this year and have worked since I was 15. I found college to be a stepping stone from hard work landscaping, mcdonald's, etc. to a job that I enjoyed and allows me to play.


Yeah, stereotyping across generations is probably as pointless as stereotyping across races, but there are generalities that are evident.

Work ethic is a learned attribute.

30 is gen Y, right? Millenials started in 1982, IIRC.

I'll have to look that up.


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## Capt Worley PE

http://www.suite101.com/content/veterans-b...d-gen-z-a185353

Boomer I - 1946-54

Boomer II - 1955-64

Gen X - 1965-79

Gen Y (Millenials or Net Gen) - 1980-95

Gen Z - Post 95


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## Bean PE

Dleg said:


> So yeah, have fun skiing now, because ski vacations might not even be an option in 20 years or so, once the old folks who did all the work are gone, and the economy is in tatters and all the hard workers have moved the China and other countries to follow the wealth. It's all about balance. On the one hand we all want to have our fun (I always though I was gen x?). On the other, there won't be any fun to be had if we're all out there having fun, instead of working.


Kids taking a little time off after college is going to lead to the downfall of our civilization? That's a stretch if I've ever heard one.


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## Bean PE

MGX said:


> I might think about what you've described since we all get worn down at times but would not do it. The working world isn't as tough as school in my experience.


They're tough in different ways. In school you have tons of free time but no money to do anything, in the working world you have money but no time.


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## RIP - VTEnviro

I'm a Gen Y



> Gen Y was born between 1980 and 1995 and are also known as the Millennium or Net Generation. Millennials are very technology wise and are comfortable with ethnically diverse groups. Their values are similar to Veterans in that they are optimistic, confident, sociable, and have strong morals and a sense of civic duty.
> Gen Y are not brand loyal and the speed of the Internet has led the Net Generation to be flexible and changing in its fashion, style consciousness and where and how it is communicated with. They expect great workplace flexibility and are likely to change employers even more frequently than Gen X’s.


Not sure how well this fits me. I'm rarely optimistic or confident, and as far as sociable goes I'm just as happy to stare at my feet.

In other words, I'm an engineer!


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## roadwreck

Bean PE said:


> Dleg said:
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah, have fun skiing now, because ski vacations might not even be an option in 20 years or so, once the old folks who did all the work are gone, and the economy is in tatters and all the hard workers have moved the China and other countries to follow the wealth. It's all about balance. On the one hand we all want to have our fun (I always though I was gen x?). On the other, there won't be any fun to be had if we're all out there having fun, instead of working.
> 
> 
> 
> Kids taking a little time off after college is going to lead to the downfall of our civilization? That's a stretch if I've ever heard one.
Click to expand...

Isn't it the norm in Europe to take sometime off before or after college? And we all know that everything Europe does is better, right?


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## wilheldp_PE

Capt Worley PE said:


> http://www.suite101.com/content/veterans-b...d-gen-z-a185353
> Boomer I - 1946-54
> 
> Boomer II - 1955-64
> 
> Gen X - 1965-79
> 
> Gen Y (Millenials or Net Gen) - 1980-95
> 
> Gen Z - Post 95


Woo-hoo...I snuck into Gen X by 35 days.


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## ironman

Sweet I am well within Gen Y. Maximum results with minimal effort. I was always told that engineers are inherently lazy, they put in the work when its nessicary but never work just for the sake of looking busy. I think their is some hard talk on this form either that or the engineering members on this forum are not typical engineers.

I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go backpacking in the jungle lol.


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## benbo

ironman said:


> Sweet I am well within Gen Y. Maximum results with minimal effort. I was always told that engineers are inherently lazy, they put in the work when its nessicary but never work just for the sake of looking busy. I think their is some hard talk on this form either that or the engineering members on this forum are not typical engineers.
> I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go backpacking in the jungle lol.


A shining representative. All you Gen-Yers should be so proud.


----------



## FLBuff PE

CbusPaul said:


> Let me clarify that I am from the younger generation and was raised to believe that you work hard then you play hard. You don't play hard without any of the work. I am turning 30 this year and have worked since I was 15. I found college to be a stepping stone from hard work landscaping, mcdonald's, etc. to a job that I enjoyed and allows me to play.
> Who is paying for this ski vacation, dare I ask?


I resemble this remark.



benbo said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet I am well within Gen Y. Maximum results with minimal effort. I was always told that engineers are inherently lazy, they put in the work when its nessicary but never work just for the sake of looking busy. I think their is some hard talk on this form either that or the engineering members on this forum are not typical engineers.
> I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go backpacking in the jungle lol.
> 
> 
> 
> A shining representative. All you Gen-Yers should be so proud.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, I'm a Gen Xer.


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## Capt Worley PE

ironman said:


> I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go *backpacking in the jungle lol*.


Backpacking in the jungle lol must be some phrase on urbandictionary. I bet it is worse than a Texas Chili Bowl.


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## CbusPaul

I'm not sure I want to be a Gen. Y'er. Will any X representatives be willing to adopt?


----------



## Bean PE

Capt Worley PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go *backpacking in the jungle lol*.
> 
> 
> 
> Backpacking in the jungle lol must be some phrase on urbandictionary. I bet it is worse than a Texas Chili Bowl.
Click to expand...

The closest thing I know of is "hiking the appalachian trail."


----------



## Capt Worley PE

Bean PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not take a ski vacation but thats because I had loans and did not have the money to do it. Once your making good money that you dont have to work TOO hard for it would be tough to quit that job to go *backpacking in the jungle lol*.
> 
> 
> 
> Backpacking in the jungle lol must be some phrase on urbandictionary. I bet it is worse than a Texas Chili Bowl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The closest thing I know of is "hiking the appalachian trail."
Click to expand...

That's my gov!!!


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## Dleg

I just don't see HOW someone can "take some time off" after college and do all the exciting, exotic, adventurous, recreational things that you describe, Bean. Unless you are a trust fund child or you parents are loaded &amp; indulgent. I enjoy all of that stuff, too, and getting a "real job" after college was my ticket to being able to afford to do that stuff. I loved skiing, for example, but Jeebus, what college student can afford to ski enough to get any good at it? The only kids I knew who were good skiers had rich parents who paid for them to do anything they wanted. Myself, and most people, I imagine, are not that fortunate and have to pay our own way through life. I got maybe one or two ski weekend a year, and had to work and save for that. And I never progressed beyond barely-black-diamond capable.

That said, I totally understand the feeling that a person might not want to buckle down into the workman's drudgery right away after college. I didn't (and still don't) want to, either, like I said early in this thread. But there are "productive" things that can be done with a life, that are productive to society, helpful to your future employment, and still adventurous. Working offshore oil, like I did - I certainly had my share of adventure and ton of good stories. The Peace Corps, like I suggested earlier. Or join the military; there are two wars still on-going. Frankly, that fact alone would make me feel a little guilty about taking time off just to have fun, at this point in history, at least.


----------



## navyasw02

wilheldp_PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.suite101.com/content/veterans-b...d-gen-z-a185353
> Boomer I - 1946-54
> 
> Boomer II - 1955-64
> 
> Gen X - 1965-79
> 
> Gen Y (Millenials or Net Gen) - 1980-95
> 
> Gen Z - Post 95
> 
> 
> 
> Woo-hoo...I snuck into Gen X by 35 days.
Click to expand...

I didnt know that people who were a year older than me are also a whole generation older than me.


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## cdcengineer

It's a battle... Youth have time and no money and as we get older we have more money, but less time. Find the balance and do what makes you happy. Keep in mind that you're going to school for as a path towards a career, not a prison sentence.

I took time off before getting to work and it definitely made it difficult when the time came to "buckle down". But anything's possible. You might have to work harder later. If travel is what you want to do, I would recommend considering working for a few years, paying off debt (if there is any) and saving some cash while getting some valuable experience (and plumping the resume). Than, if you want to f'off - go for it. You'll be making room for a needy new graduate.


----------



## ironman

Back in the day engineers starting pay, respect, vacation time, work flexibility, etc were much greater when adjusted for inflation (for the salary part). Naive HS students going into engineering think that the engineering profession is still that way, but in reality wages have been driven way down and it is no longer as respected as it used to be and student loans are more out of control than they ever have been since the creation of the USA , debt to income ratios are getting worse just to get an education, a modest home and basic reliable auto.

I worked with a pre-boomer and when he graduated he could support a family and pay off a single family home in about 3 years with his income, they had 1-2 cars and no student loan debt. That is unheard of these days. I can see why new graduates are reluctant to put their shackles on since they will have to wear them alot longer than their fore fathers long before them if they dont already have them on with outrageous student loan debt. My grandfather a pre-boomer was able to buy a house, support a family, buy rifles and an air plane on a coal miners pay, and not some junker welfare C-172 but a brand new PA-18 super cub. I am glad my grandfather and father are both pilots because otherwise it would take me another 5-7 years before I could finish my license, plane, hangar, etc.

I feel like I am just starting my career/life at 29 because I just got my student loans paid off last year but still have a mortgage for a small condo that I will probably die with that represents 3/8 of my income for the cheapest place I could find outside of the ghetto and thats as an engineer not a HS grad working in a warehouse or running a forkliftt.

Wage deflation and out of control tuition is a big problem in this nation and more and more young people are thinking why bother, MAYBE they can have something nice when they are 30-40 years old if they dont have a heart attack first or they can enjoy their time without the money.

And if you do make it there is more fraud, graft, theft and bogus court orders these days that seek to take it away. Have sex and a condom breaks have fun living on less than 50% of your income after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your cookie jar. I have never seen under the table engineering work.

Then you add the self righous berating of young people by boomers with no consideration for how bad things are in the USA right now and you reach critical mass and the younger generations are demotivated and your society crumbles. People were living on credit for the last decade before the 09 collapse and now you are going to see the economy for what it really is.

I am hoping that germany can get its act together can cut off all the leaches around them so that they will be a viable alternative to the USA when the USA crumbles and talented individuals have a safe haven rather than the world plunging into the dark ages like after rome fell. My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.

Just sayin.


----------



## Capt Worley PE

^Drunk post?


----------



## roadwreck

ironman said:


> Back in the day engineers starting pay, respect, vacation time, work flexibility, etc were much greater when adjusted for inflation (for the salary part). Naive HS students going into engineering think that the engineering profession is still that way, but in reality wages have been driven way down and it is no longer as respected as it used to be and student loans are more out of control than they ever have been since the creation of the USA , debt to income ratios are getting worse just to get an education, a modest home and basic reliable auto.
> I worked with a pre-boomer and when he graduated he could support a family and pay off a single family home in about 3 years with his income, they had 1-2 cars and no student loan debt. That is unheard of these days. I can see why new graduates are reluctant to put their shackles on since they will have to wear them alot longer than their fore fathers long before them if they dont already have them on with outrageous student loan debt. My grandfather a pre-boomer was able to buy a house, support a family, buy rifles and an air plane on a coal miners pay, and not some junker welfare C-172 but a brand new PA-18 super cub. I am glad my grandfather and father are both pilots because otherwise it would take me another 5-7 years before I could finish my license, plane, hangar, etc.
> 
> I feel like I am just starting my career/life at 29 because I just got my student loans paid off last year but still have a mortgage for a small condo that I will probably die with that represents 3/8 of my income for the cheapest place I could find outside of the ghetto and thats as an engineer not a HS grad working in a warehouse or running a forkliftt.
> 
> Wage deflation and out of control tuition is a big problem in this nation and more and more young people are thinking why bother, MAYBE they can have something nice when they are 30-40 years old if they dont have a heart attack first or they can enjoy their time without the money.
> 
> And if you do make it there is more fraud, graft, theft and bogus court orders these days that seek to take it away. Have sex and a condom breaks have fun living on less than 50% of your income after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your cookie jar. I have never seen under the table engineering work.
> 
> Then you add the self righous berating of young people by boomers with no consideration for how bad things are in the USA right now and you reach critical mass and the younger generations are demotivated and your society crumbles. People were living on credit for the last decade before the 09 collapse and now you are going to see the economy for what it really is.
> 
> I am hoping that germany can get its act together can cut off all the leaches around them so that they will be a viable alternative to the USA when the USA crumbles and talented individuals have a safe haven rather than the world plunging into the dark ages like after rome fell. My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> Just sayin.


I know, it's a rough life isn't it? It really is a shame things are simply handed to you on a silver platter.

:violin:


----------



## CbusPaul

I'm not sure how you cry about how bad things are when you're 29 and have a condo, car, and a PLANE. That's fatty money. Either way, your posts are entertaining so keep it up.


----------



## MA_PE

> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.


So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.

You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.


----------



## benbo

> I would not mind learning german.


Why not start by learning English?


----------



## Ble_PE

benbo said:


> I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not start by learning English?
Click to expand...

:appl:


----------



## Capt Worley PE

MA_PE said:


> Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.


Can you imagine the fatty money you'd need to build a hangar for that in AK?


----------



## wilheldp_PE

benbo said:


> I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not start by learning English?
Click to expand...

If he learned German, he could suck at being bi-lingual too.


----------



## Master slacker

&lt;Random plug for my quip in a different post about "stupid" and brown sugar.&gt;


----------



## ironman

MA_PE said:


> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
> 
> You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
Click to expand...

Only because they lost the war. Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.

Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not. Just dont expect medicare and social security to stick around because we really dont want to pay for it with student loan debt that is equivalent to half a house and mortgages that extend out to half your life time with wages stagnating at best and in most cases going down. There are going to be some major corrections to come, this economic resession is far from over, the next collapse is going to be the student loan crisis and most of the loans in default are not federally guarnteed.

I dont own a plane yet and my condo is not paid for so its just another shackle (unfortunatly rent has remained high in my area so selling and renting would not really get me out of the weeds, i dont know how the rental market is being proped up honestly). Its really not advantagious to buy or sell in my area right now unless you can find a forclosure that is not being run up in cost by a bidding war.


----------



## MA_PE

ironman said:


> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
> 
> You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Only because they lost the war.* Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.
> 
> Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not.
Click to expand...

I assume your reply in bold above was to the underlined statement in my post. WOW! I think maybe Homeland Security should take a look at you.


----------



## Capt Worley PE

MA_PE said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
> 
> You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Only because they lost the war.* Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.
> 
> Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume your reply in bold above was to the underlined statement in my post. WOW! I think maybe Homeland Security should take a look at you.
Click to expand...

I think he's tight with the Mengeles.


----------



## willsee

ironman said:


> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
> 
> You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only because they lost the war. Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.
> 
> Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not. *Just dont expect medicare and social security to stick around because we really dont want to pay for it with student loan debt that is equivalent to half a house and mortgages that extend out to half your life time with wages stagnating at best and in most cases going down.* There are going to be some major corrections to come, this economic resession is far from over, the next collapse is going to be the student loan crisis and most of the loans in default are not federally guarnteed.
> 
> I dont own a plane yet and my condo is not paid for so its just another shackle (unfortunatly rent has remained high in my area so selling and renting would not really get me out of the weeds, i dont know how the rental market is being proped up honestly). Its really not advantagious to buy or sell in my area right now unless you can find a forclosure that is not being run up in cost by a bidding war.
Click to expand...

Whose fault is it that students are taking out so much in loans to go through school? Maybe the students fault? I graduated with a Masters and $6k of student loan debt because I went to a city school that I got a scholarship from instead of going to Purdue. The only reason I had 6k in student loans was my fault and I'm not pointing my finger blaming anyone.

No one is forcing you to take out student loans or to go to expensive institutions.


----------



## ironman

w0cyru01 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad thinks that germany will never gain its pre WW2 dominance back again. I would not mind learning german.
> 
> 
> 
> So pre-WW2 Germany was a great place to live? I think a large number of people who lived there then, may disagree. Of course the people on the "good" side of the fence will back you up 100%, but you may have trouble finding them as a lot of them have either passed away in hiding or have had to answer to their war crimes.
> 
> You think there's fatty money in engineering genocide machines and buildings? Hitler not only had planes but big zeppelins, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only because they lost the war. Also a very small percentage of the germans that made germany great were actual nazi's. We will also probably never return to the immediate post WW2 USA again either.
> 
> Not really complaining just trying to explain the new generations mentality and why they feel that way, the boomers dont have to care but there will be consequences none the less. One can ether seek to understand the challenges this younger generation faces and seek common ground or not. *Just dont expect medicare and social security to stick around because we really dont want to pay for it with student loan debt that is equivalent to half a house and mortgages that extend out to half your life time with wages stagnating at best and in most cases going down.* There are going to be some major corrections to come, this economic resession is far from over, the next collapse is going to be the student loan crisis and most of the loans in default are not federally guarnteed.
> 
> I dont own a plane yet and my condo is not paid for so its just another shackle (unfortunatly rent has remained high in my area so selling and renting would not really get me out of the weeds, i dont know how the rental market is being proped up honestly). Its really not advantagious to buy or sell in my area right now unless you can find a forclosure that is not being run up in cost by a bidding war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose fault is it that students are taking out so much in loans to go through school? Maybe the students fault? I graduated with a Masters and $6k of student loan debt because I went to a city school that I got a scholarship from instead of going to Purdue. The only reason I had 6k in student loans was my fault and I'm not pointing my finger blaming anyone.
> 
> No one is forcing you to take out student loans or to go to expensive institutions.
Click to expand...

That is true to an extent, but you were extremely fortunate to have a scholarship (and it sounds like it was for the most part a full ride), scholarships that cover even just most of the expenses of college and that are recuring every semester (so you are not scrambling ot find random scholarships every semster and if you cant find them have to stop in the middle of school or take loans) are incredibly rare these days. Students go into debt because education is the only hope at a better life and the american dream but degrees are paying off less and less these days but what other choice do you really have, be a HS graduate working at wal mart? Maybe your family is connected and can get you plugged into a 30$/hr job without college but most dont have that luxury. So calling it the students fault is a slippery slope when most have no other viable options to get themselves out of the situation they are in, its exploitation by educational institutions with no gov controls, you could make the same arguments about factories back in the day which spawned the start of unions.

America is starting to reach a point where young people are doing exactly what you suggest, not taking the loans and thus not going to school (since meaningful scholarships are incredibly rare), hard work is not paying off these days it simply shackles you. The student loan crisis is going to come from the last round of college graduates that entered college when things were still realtivly good but graduated into a crashed market, they no longer have the choice to not take the loans. So you seem to talk hard about it being the students fault but I wonder how you will adjust to a society where prosective students choose not to take the loans and instead engage in street crime, drugs or other activities because there is no longer a viable out to poverty in america without shackling yourself until your an old man or getting extremely lucky.

I have friends who are already considering such things becuase even if you can find an ok job after CSED and uncle sam get their hands out of your pockets your living on ~50% or less of your income. I usually suggest people just leave the nation because working for 20$/hr keeping 50% of your income you might as well be in a 2nd world nation because thats about all the ammenities that you can afford here anyways and at least everyone else will be in the same boat and you would not have to be exosed to the better life as seen through thoes driving nice cars on the road or million dollar homes on the hill, everyone will be broke so it wont be that bad. Another thing one can do is take the loans get the education and then take thoes skills somewhere where they are more appriciated and default on the loans. I am taking one class at a time towards a masters and its about 600$ a class but once I start taking 600 level it will be about 1000$ a class at a state school, thats not to bad for me now because I already have my undergrad (which I paid dearly for) and am making 40$/hr (I got extremely lucky on my journy to 40$/hr) but for someone out of HS with an earning potential of 10$/hr or less that would require loans or scholarships especially since to finish school in any timely fassion you have to be taking at least 12-14 hrs a semster which forces you to work part time (at 10$/hr at the most .....). I have not even brought up the inflated cost of housing near universities which probably equally contributes to the need to take loans, for engineers that should be good at math this concept should be pretty easy, unfortunatly when you put a $ sign next to the number people get self rightious but the bottom line is the numbers dont add up and thats the problem.

America is now pretty much an aristocracy, for every one person that got all the right lucky breaks there are 1000's that did not.

Just sayin


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## willsee

I have a friend that moved to America at 13 from a war torn country and couldn't speak english. He joined the US National Guard and got his school paid for (BS/MEng) and has worked at multiple national companies.

Others *gasp* paid for school by working full time or took out MINIMAL loans, went on co-op and saved their money (1 year minimal co-op to graduate at my school).

I don't know why I bother...I've read your other posts here and you seem to take a woe is me approach to it all. You assume because you have an engineering degree people should grovel at your feet. I'm well respected and people perk up when I say I have an engineering degree. Maybe you're an arrogant engineer (I've met many) therefore no one respects you.


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## ironman

w0cyru01 said:


> I have a friend that moved to America at 13 from a war torn country and couldn't speak english. He joined the US National Guard and got his school paid for (BS/MEng) and has worked at multiple national companies. Others *gasp* *paid for school by working full time *or took out MINIMAL loans, went on co-op and saved their money (1 year minimal co-op to graduate at my school).
> 
> I don't know why I bother...I've read your other posts here and you seem to take a woe is me approach to it all. You assume because you have an engineering degree people should grovel at your feet. I'm well respected and people perk up when I say I have an engineering degree. Maybe you're an arrogant engineer (I've met many) therefore no one respects you.


I simply have sympathy for the little guy, why should one have to conscript themselves into the military just to get a decent education, the military is certianly not for everyone and your ability to succed in the military has no correlation to how good of an engineer or scientist someone can be, you dont see rich people doing that or congressmans kids. If this friend of yours somehow got a green card from a war torn country then you and people around you are extremely lucky, most green cards are litterally on a lottery system, you litterally have to win the lottery to come here. For every friend of yours that had all the planets align there are 1000's that did not. Not saying thats a bad thing when that happens, thats way cool but the problem is what about these 1000's of other people, do you think they are just going to fade off into the night so you can enjoy your latte and drive your 20k car on your 40$/hr while they are barrely making ends meet, or these days not making ends meet anymore.

Granted there are thoes in thoes 1000's that are simply lazy and wont pick up a book to save their lives, I know them. If it were only the intellectually lazy that were allowed to fall on hard times then law enforcement can deal with them, when a majority of the population who otherwise might be smart and motivated (but did not have the stars align for them) start to fall on hard times because they were mathimaticly denied entry to the new aristocracy there will be hell to pay.

Your latte wont taste as good when you are constantly worried about being robbed no matter what neighborhood you are in or when forclosures pick up speed becuase food and gas prices increase as wages decrease, access to higher education is strangled, etc.

I understand that this is just the way it is but eventually the piper is going to have to be paid and im not talking about student loan defaults but the denigration of our society.

Maybe the bolded is the right answer but you would really have to like your full time job to be willing to work it for 10 years while you go to school part time (unless your a genious and can work 40 hrs and take 18 credits of brutal engineering ciriculum) or live at home and work part time and go to school almost full time (if you have the option of living at home), lots of things have to happen in order to make these things work.


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## ironman

Not sure who rppearso is?


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## MGX

That's some ownage right there.


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## Master slacker

ironman said:


> Not sure who rppearso is?


Identity change complete.


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