# April 2011 exam stories



## snickerd3 (Apr 11, 2011)

Anything fun and exciting happen at you test site? from a post I read it sounds like the answer is yes. please share!!


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## knight1fox3 (Apr 11, 2011)

opcorn:


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## Happy (Apr 11, 2011)

Salem Oregon,

After lunch, the few hundred or so of us are all lined up waiting for the doors to open and let us back into the building. The mood is fairly somber, tense - you probably know the picture. Lot of people still carrying the books they did some last minute studying with at lunch.

This old guy walks up to me in the line and asks if we're going in to see a concert. I'm thinking, yeah - Party on! He seemed a little incredulous that we were just writing an exam.


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## MechMark (Apr 11, 2011)

There was an ejection during my exam at a table next to me. Nobody, including the guy sharing the table, had a clue what had happened, so I don't think it was anything blatant like a cell phone going off or having some other kind of recording device. Speculation only gets one so far, but nothing seemed to be up until it happened.

I should've guessed something was wrong when the police officer started moseying down our aisle and stopped a table away while the proctor spoke to the test-taker. The person first acted shocked and then you could see the anger start. The pencil was thrown down and there was definitely a loud packing-up of test materials. If the proctor hadn't been a little, old lady, librarian type, there may have been even more aggression. But it was definitely surprising and I definitely felt bad for the person.

Does anybody know, if you're dismissed from the PE, are you able to take it in the future?


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## Jonjo (Apr 11, 2011)

:thumbs: Guys just wait ...still long way to go for see the results come up


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## bingcrosbyb (Apr 11, 2011)

One of my proctors was pretty freaking hot. After everything was collected and we were dismissed, at the door she said "I never want to see any of you guys again, ok?" I said, "I might come back just to see you again."


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## kstatenupe (Apr 14, 2011)

Topeka KS - Someone came knocking at the door around 8:15 or so. Thats about it.


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## willsee (Apr 14, 2011)

Only thing we had was a little argument between the test takers and the proctors in the beginning.

In Illinois you aren't allowed to have any practice tests or solution guides and the proctor was going to allow them. Other than that nothing exciting.


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## Relvinim (Apr 15, 2011)

bingcrosbyb said:


> One of my proctors was pretty freaking hot. After everything was collected and we were dismissed, at the door she said "I never want to see any of you guys again, ok?" I said, "I might come back just to see you again."


You're lucky. Just about every proctor at my test had one foot in the grave. I don't think any of them were under 80 yrs old.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 15, 2011)

We had Edna and Gert at my exam too back in the day.

What did you folks do for lunch? It's a major topic around here.


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## willsee (Apr 15, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> We had Edna and Gert at my exam too back in the day.
> What did you folks do for lunch? It's a major topic around here.


wendy's

2 double stacks and a baked potato


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## ALBin517 (Apr 15, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> We had Edna and Gert at my exam too back in the day.
> What did you folks do for lunch? It's a major topic around here.



Back in my day, I flew through the morning - first person done by a wide margin.

I drove into town, got my oil changed and got food. Then I started worrying about car trouble on the way back so I was back to the college before the lunch hour STARTED.

In hindsight, I should have paced myself better... passed first try though.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 15, 2011)

mroning was easy to medium, finished early but checked out all myanswers. I did solve all the problems slowly to make sure my solns make sense, but found couple of problems which cant be solve no matter how hard I check them.

afternoon medium to difficult still finished early and checked some answers, what confuses me was NCEES made questions which were code dependent and when I go through the code they dont agree.

lunchtime I tried to relax there is no point of studying I need to add more energy and reserve mental alertness.

good luck everyone.


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## owiewave (Apr 15, 2011)

A guy in my exam had a near meltdown because he was told that he was using a non-conforming calculator. Luckily for him, someone had an extra that he was able to borrow in the morning, but he proceeded to yell at the proctor that his calculator was just a typical solar one and there was no camera on it. I don't know about anybody else, but for me the first thing that I did was to ensure I had the correct calculator so I was able to study with it and be comfortable with it by exam day. Over lunch, he went to Wal-Mart and bought a new calculator and was pretty vocal about it.


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## Glen_PE (Apr 15, 2011)

owiewave said:


> A guy in my exam had a near meltdown because he was told that he was using a non-conforming calculator. Luckily for him, someone had an extra that he was able to borrow in the morning, but he proceeded to yell at the proctor that his calculator was just a typical solar one and there was no camera on it. I don't know about anybody else, but for me the first thing that I did was to ensure I had the correct calculator so I was able to study with it and be comfortable with it by exam day. Over lunch, he went to Wal-Mart and bought a new calculator and was pretty vocal about it.


Funny, but I had my Ti-89 in the CA Seismic Exam and the proctor questioned me about it. I brought the state specific test allowable calculator list with me and showed her that it was ok.


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## navyasw02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Relvinim said:


> bingcrosbyb said:
> 
> 
> > One of my proctors was pretty freaking hot. After everything was collected and we were dismissed, at the door she said "I never want to see any of you guys again, ok?" I said, "I might come back just to see you again."
> ...


Same thing in CA. I'm pretty sure one of my proctors knew Isaac Newton back when he only had a first law and went by "Ike".


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## jackal627 (Apr 15, 2011)

Baton Rouge- Louisiana

The fire alarm went off in the morning but no one moved. A proctor left the room and about two minutes later it turned off.


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## cartztopher (Apr 15, 2011)

owiewave said:


> A guy in my exam had a near meltdown because he was told that he was using a non-conforming calculator. Luckily for him, someone had an extra that he was able to borrow in the morning, but he proceeded to yell at the proctor that his calculator was just a typical solar one and there was no camera on it. I don't know about anybody else, but for me the first thing that I did was to ensure I had the correct calculator so I was able to study with it and be comfortable with it by exam day. Over lunch, he went to Wal-Mart and bought a new calculator and was pretty vocal about it.


This guy was really lucky that he got a proctor to ask around for him, and he was still PO'ed. I can't expect the people who don't read the instructions, have a clue what they are doing when it comes to the actual exam.


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## Jamie Anderson (Apr 18, 2011)

bingcrosbyb said:


> One of my proctors was pretty freaking hot. After everything was collected and we were dismissed, at the door she said "I never want to see any of you guys again, ok?" I said, "I might come back just to see you again."


I just took it for the 2nd time in NH. First time a 70 year old chubbly lady blatantly farted as she passed me (in the tennis courts in milford).

This time my Procter was hot, and didn't pass gas.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 18, 2011)

One of the proctors, told us (he is a Professional Engr in Canada) that after the PE exam, the week after, hes gonna be part of the meeting with NCEES to make some problems for FE/PE exams, I answered, no wonder the exams administered was so hard because of you.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 18, 2011)

but I doubt what he says, hes only Canadian PEng, and not even EIT in the US nor pass FE, Canadian PEng is a joke.


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## kevo_55 (Apr 18, 2011)

^^ The Canadian P.Eng is one of the prizes in a Cracker Jack box, right??

:joke:


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 18, 2011)

kevio,

I agree, thats why I wrote PE and hopefully SE, I need a challenge, eventhough I graduated in Asia.


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## kstatenupe (Apr 19, 2011)

One of the local organizations provided lunch and a raffle. Good stuff.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 20, 2011)

kstatenupe said:


> One of the local organizations provided lunch and a raffle. Good stuff.


Not 2011 (I just found the site), but when I took the test I had a conversation with a guy in the hallway outside. He was incredulous that I was taking the exam (Civil P.E.) based on experience only (no college). He had a bit of an attitude in the morning.

I came back a little early for the afternoon part, and bumped into him again. He still had attitude, commenting that I really shouldn't have given up early, that I should have double-checked my work. Apparently, he'd seen me leaving the morning exam at 10:30 AM.

He was ... displeased ... to find out that I'd finished the finished the exam, double-checked every answer, and triple-checked the ones in sections I was bad on. In my double/triple-checking, I found one error. Eventually, I'd decided that it wasn't worth stressing out over, that I'd just end up tearing my hair out for no reason.

I saw his face as I was leaving the afternoon section (at 3:00). I found it hilarious.

And yes, I passed the exam on my first attempt. This would have been April 2009.

I really, really hope I run into him again, but he was taking the Electrical exam. In 11 years of Structural Engineering/Design, I've only run into a handful of EEs.


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## Vinsanity (Apr 20, 2011)

i dont believe this, a non degree person cant pass PE exam, consider the topics covered and foundation courses required, youre dreaming.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 21, 2011)

Lol. If im a client and know this PE i wouldnt choose this company , sorry.


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## civilized_naah (Apr 21, 2011)

Vinsanity said:


> i dont believe this, a non degree person cant pass PE exam, consider the topics covered and foundation courses required, youre dreaming.


Believe me, a piece of paper that says you have a degree (even from an accredited program) does not mean a damn thing. I personally know several engineers who are much better at problem solving (real world, not in theory only) than many of their 'better-educated' compatriots. Many undergraduate engineering programs are now a joke, cutting and trimming programs to make it more attractive to potential students.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 21, 2011)

Vinsanity said:


> i dont believe this, a non degree person cant pass PE exam, consider the topics covered and foundation courses required, youre dreaming.


Actually, the Civil PE wasn't that hard. I found the Fundamentals exam to be harder; the PE was largely about what I practiced (though I rarely do storm/wastewater, maybe 1-2 projects a year) whereas the FE covered a large range of subjects. Fortunately, my memory for numbers &amp; formulas generally approaches photographic; once I've done something a few times, I can remember it for months. That made the studying somewhat easier.



civilized_naah said:


> Believe me, a piece of paper that says you have a degree (even from an accredited program) does not mean a damn thing. I personally know several engineers who are much better at problem solving (real world, not in theory only) than many of their 'better-educated' compatriots. Many undergraduate engineering programs are now a joke, cutting and trimming programs to make it more attractive to potential students.


Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I've run into a several E.I.s and a few P.E.s that I think aren't terribly good engineers. Nothing malpractice, everything's safe, but it's so overbuilt because they don't do simple things like putting reinforcing on the tension face of a retaining wall (it was centered, in a cantilevered wall with no corners or counterforts).



STEEL MAN said:


> Lol. If im a client and know this PE i wouldnt choose this company , sorry.


Completely your prerogative, of course. I would argue that as an Engineer with now 10 years of almost exclusively (small to medium) structural experience, I'm better with (small) structures than most. After all, someone with a degree and 6 years experience has only been doing practical structural work for 6 years total, right? Add to that my generally "outside the box" approach to significant issues, and you might find that someone like me (though I really hope I'm unique) is better able to develop solutions to uncommon structural issues. I also tend to have a better rapport with contractors and owners, because I've been "in the trenches" with them instead of "off studying with my head in the clouds" (as a contractor once said while we were discussing a project).

Of course, I never mention my lack of college degree unless I am asked questions regarding my education. But when I do bring it up, the end responses vary between disdain, curiosity, and being impressed. Generally Architects are disdainful, Home/Business owners are curious, and Contractors are impressed. Engineers tend to run the gamut; most civil and structural engineers I know have been impressed, while a few have been openly disdainful.


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## STEEL MAN (Apr 21, 2011)

Lol. A "real" PE knows he/ she should be ethical not like mentioned above.

I will cite an example if youre terminally sick then there are two doctors one a quack the other a grad of univ which one would you choose think it over.

Professionals are suppose to protect the public i doubt such case for non grads.


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## humner (Apr 21, 2011)

wow, this has gotten my attention. I work with a group of engineers, all went to university, guess who they come to for building plans and structural questions? Me, and I only have an associates from a community college. It is not where or how you learned something, but what you do with it and appreciate how you apply it. It is when you think you know everything you stop going over your numbers and mistakes happen.

As far as the terminally ill, I lost my wife to cancer and took her to some of the best cancer doctors around. Some analogies would be best left out.


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## humner (Apr 21, 2011)

Now, getting back to the original topic: The table that was supplied to me and another test taker was delaminating and had splinters lifting up from the plywood surface. They originally positioned some poor surveying test taker with the sun coming through a high window right into his face. Both matters were taken care of right away. That was the worst of it, not bad for a test day.


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## mrt406 (Apr 21, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> Not 2011 (I just found the site), but when I took the test I had a conversation with a guy in the hallway outside. He was incredulous that I was taking the exam (Civil P.E.) based on experience only (no college). He had a bit of an attitude in the morning.


I'm confused...

While I'm in no way saying that it can't be done, I thought it was a requirement to have a 4-year degree at an ABET acrredited school in order to sit for the P.E.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 21, 2011)

mrt406 said:


> Karen S. P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > Not 2011 (I just found the site), but when I took the test I had a conversation with a guy in the hallway outside. He was incredulous that I was taking the exam (Civil P.E.) based on experience only (no college). He had a bit of an attitude in the morning.
> ...


nope. a lot of states will allow it with usually much more experience required.


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## humner (Apr 21, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> mrt406 said:
> 
> 
> > Karen S. P.E. said:
> ...


NY and VT require 12 years of experience.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 21, 2011)

mrt406 said:


> Karen S. P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > Not 2011 (I just found the site), but when I took the test I had a conversation with a guy in the hallway outside. He was incredulous that I was taking the exam (Civil P.E.) based on experience only (no college). He had a bit of an attitude in the morning.
> ...


Oregon (where I live, and work under the direction of a licensed S.E.) requires 12 years (8 for EI, 4 for PE), Washington (where I am licensed as a Civil P.E.) requires 8 years (4 for EI, 4 for PE), and California of all places requires *6* (3 EI, 3 PE). In Washington and CA, the law is written so that up to 5 years of education (4+1 postgrad) can be substituted for experience; for Oregon, it's 4 year degree + 4 years experience, 2 year degree + 10 years experience, or no degree + 12 years experience. At this point, going to college would be counterproductive from a purely logistical standpoint; I have more than 10 years of experience, so I'd take longer going to school than I would just getting the experience. Not to say that the school would be useless by any means. I fully admit that I have limitations on what I know; because I am extremely specialized in structures, I'd like to know more about the other subjects.

I intend to sit for my CA-specific exams in either Oct '11 or April '12, and my Washington Structural in Oct. 2012. I have a personal plan that after I get my structural I will be getting my Oregon Geotechnical, Electrical, and Mechanical licenses, just because. Unfortunately, this takes back seat to other, larger financial and personal concerns (the Geo/Mech/Elec licenses wouldn't help me in my career), so it will likely not happen for another 5-6 years.

Edit: Holy run-on sentence Batman!


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## jmbeck (Apr 21, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> I intend to sit for my CA-specific exams in either Oct '11 or April '12, and my Washington Structural in Oct. 2012. I have a personal plan that after I get my structural I will be getting my Oregon Geotechnical, Electrical, and Mechanical licenses, just because. Unfortunately, this takes back seat to other, larger financial and personal concerns (the Geo/Mech/Elec licenses wouldn't help me in my career), so it will likely not happen for another 5-6 years.



So, you plan on getting 12 years of Geotechnical, 12 years of Mechanical, and 12 years of Electrical experience in 6 years? I think you'll find trouble with that with your state board as you've stated you're limited in experience to structures. I certainly hope anyway.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 21, 2011)

jmbeck said:


> Karen S. P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > I intend to sit for my CA-specific exams in either Oct '11 or April '12, and my Washington Structural in Oct. 2012. I have a personal plan that after I get my structural I will be getting my Oregon Geotechnical, Electrical, and Mechanical licenses, just because. Unfortunately, this takes back seat to other, larger financial and personal concerns (the Geo/Mech/Elec licenses wouldn't help me in my career), so it will likely not happen for another 5-6 years.
> ...


No, as with any license, once you get the first you can sit to take the exams for the others (except Structural, which has further limitations that I have already met for WA). The assumption is in place that you have the self-knowledge to only sit for exams you think you can pass, and once passed that you won't do anything that is outside your expertise. For example, I'm legally able to design flood controls, waterways, roads, etc. - but I don't, because while I know enough about them to have passed the exam, I wouldn't want to put my stamp on them until I am confident that I can do them correctly.

Like I said, I'd be getting the other licenses for my own reasons - I don't plan (at this time) to actually practice any of those disciplines. Mostly, I want to do it because I think it'd be impressive and somewhat interesting for someone in my position to have passed every major exam administered in my local area. Plus, study purely for the sake of knowledge is a good thing.


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## Dark Knight (Apr 21, 2011)

After reading most of the explanatinons in this thread I understand better why engineers are so low in the professional-totem pole.

How many licensed cardiologists out there do not have a valid medical school degree?. Same with lawyers? What has been said here is that you do not have to go to engineering school to be an engineer. Just work 3,6,9,12 or whatever years you can with one and you are even fit to go for a license as one. Is not that nice? So many of us wasted from 5 to 6 years.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 21, 2011)

Dark Knight said:


> After reading most of the explanatinons in this thread I understand better why engineers are so low in the professional-totem pole.
> How many licensed cardiologists out there do not have a valid medical school degree?. Same with lawyers? What has been said here is that you do not have to go to engineering school to be an engineer. Just work 3,6,9,12 or whatever years you can with one and you are even fit to go for a license as one. Is not that nice? So many of us wasted from 5 to 6 years.


Actually, lawyers in some states can pass the bar without the benefit of law school. It's called "reading the law". It's uncommon - almost if note more uncommon than it is for Engineers - but it happens.

And you didn't waste those years. Completely neglecting the practical effect education has - that you do in fact have a much broader knowledge of multiple subjects - there's the added benefit that you don't have people questioning your ability to become an engineer, or calling you unethical without having direct knowledge of your experience. Speaking personally, I would much rather have gone to school and studied engineering. If I had the cash on hand *right now* to attend college, I would do so in a heartbeat. I don't; I have personal issues (medical, for both my wife &amp; I) and other debts that must be paid first.


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## mrt406 (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm surprised some states would allow this. Seems like it would be opening themselves up to a whole world of liability.

Not that I'm saying (or not saying) there'd be any corrolation for this, or that this couldn't happen to an engineer with a degree...

But what happens if, heaven forbid, a bridge fails or something similar and the public finds out that the engineer that designed it didn't even go to school for engineering?

Seems to me as though the State would just as soon require the degree to give some sort of standardization. ABET accredidation is a standardized requirement. What standardizes the 12-years of experience that replaces that?


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## Exception Collection (Apr 21, 2011)

mrt406 said:


> I'm surprised some states would allow this. Seems like it would be opening themselves up to a whole world of liability.
> Not that I'm saying (or not saying) there'd be any corrolation for this, or that this couldn't happen to an engineer with a degree...
> 
> But what happens if, heaven forbid, a bridge fails or something similar and the public finds out that the engineer that designed it didn't even go to school for engineering?
> ...


Well, I'll admit that it's not a fully standardized system. But:

-I've taken the same FE and PE exams as any other licensed Civil Engineer.

-I've taken the same ethics exam as any other WA engineer.

-I've met the qualifications as laid out by the state

-I've worked under the direct supervision of the engineers that have trained me, who did attend ABET-accredited programs.

-I've made it clear to those engineers that I am worthy of being an Engineer.

If it helps, I guess you could consider it an extended unaccredited tutoring system. After all, what are Engineering professors, aside from Engineers passing on their knowledge to their students?


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## HerrKaLeun (Apr 22, 2011)

Vinsanity said:


> i dont believe this, a non degree person cant pass PE exam, consider the topics covered and foundation courses required, youre dreaming.


If you have a brain, you can teach yourself with the books. I myself took HVAC and passed the first time. My undergraduate degree is environmental engineering (Germany) and my Masters is Mechanical engineering (US). None of the PE test equations I learned at school, all my schooling was in metric. MAsters degree wa a lot about programming the thermodynamic relations, so that didn't help for the test either. Trust me, it can be done to pass a test that requires reading psychometric charts and calculate pump head without an instructor teaching you how to do it.

while studying for the test, i learned a lot useful things, though.

That is one thing an engineer does, figuring something out without someone else explaining it.


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## HerrKaLeun (Apr 22, 2011)

ngnrd said:


> I'd rather hire someone with no degree that had enough experience and competency to pass the exam on the first attempt than someone that holds a degree but took 8 shots at the exam before they finally got lucky and passed.
> Nobody interviews a potential engineering firm by asking them how many of their PE's are degreed, or even how many times those PE's took the exam. The question everybody asks is, how much EXPERIENCE does your firm (and by inference, your PE's) have in designing X-Y-Z type projects.
> 
> When was the last time you heard of ANY professional firm (doctors, engineers, lawyers, whatever) being hired solely because of the status of its employee's undergraduate degrees? If you can find one example, I'd be impressed.


when i hire consultants i require them to state their education and also ask them int he interview. I'm the only one in my firm who does that, though.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 22, 2011)

navyasw02 said:


> Relvinim said:
> 
> 
> > bingcrosbyb said:
> ...


Just saw this now. That's too funny man!


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## Happy (Apr 22, 2011)

Upthread some guys were laughing about how Canadian engineering PE's were given out in a cracker jack box. Guess what? I got a Canadian engineering degree and I wrote the American FE and PE exams. Neither exam was much harder than some of the SEMESTER finals for individual classes I took in school. In Canada, the point is getting the degree. Then, as long as you have 4 years qualified experience they don't retest anyone for the PE (other than an ethical exam which isn't nearly as difficult).

Here, the degree is unimportant - you don't even need a degree if you have enough experience. All you have to do is pass ONE TEST. That process is a joke. The test is not a cake walk, but it is just one multiple choice and open book exam. Any fairly intelligent person with good test taking skills should be able to pick up the review books, study like a crazy person for a few months and then have a decent chance to pass this test - even if they never previously cracked an engineering text in their life. Obviously if you take a guy with 12 years 'experience' in the construction field - he has had no or little exposure to many of the topics in the PE exam and has to learn them from scratch anyways.

Ever wonder what other profession forces its members to take a comprehensive technical exam 4 years out of school? I can't think of any. Law student write their exam right out of college, medical people like pharmacists might write an exam right out of college. In my opinion it doesn't make a lot of sense to set the bar for being an engineer so low as to pass just 1 exam. To get CPR certification - okay, one exam makes sense. To get a PE, nah not so much. Better to go the Canadian route and have only certified schools which properly weed out the non-engineers over many years and many exams, assignments, projects, labs etc.

The 4 years of experience thing is fine. But why should you have to prove you can relearn structures after 4 years when you a transportation engineer? I can't buy into a justification saying someone is more 'well rounded' since any engineer is likely to quickly forget [again] that material you don't use a work anyways. Should cardiologists be taken aside and tested on dermitology after 4 years experience? After all, if they can't prove they know it all they shouldn't be doing heart surgery.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 22, 2011)

Happy said:


> Upthread some guys were laughing about how Canadian engineering PE's were given out in a cracker jack box. Guess what? I got a Canadian engineering degree and I wrote the American FE and PE exams. Neither exam was much harder than some of the SEMESTER finals for individual classes I took in school. In Canada, the point is getting the degree. Then, as long as you have 4 years qualified experience they don't retest anyone for the PE (other than an ethical exam which isn't nearly as difficult).
> Here, the degree is unimportant - you don't even need a degree if you have enough experience. All you have to do is pass ONE TEST. That process is a joke. The test is not a cake walk, but it is just one multiple choice and open book exam. Any fairly intelligent person with good test taking skills should be able to pick up the review books, study like a crazy person for a few months and then have a decent chance to pass this test - even if they never previously cracked an engineering text in their life. Obviously if you take a guy with 12 years 'experience' in the construction field - he has had no or little exposure to many of the topics in the PE exam and has to learn them from scratch anyways.
> 
> Ever wonder what other profession forces its members to take a comprehensive technical exam 4 years out of school? I can't think of any. Law student write their exam right out of college, medical people like pharmacists might write an exam right out of college. In my opinion it doesn't make a lot of sense to set the bar for being an engineer so low as to pass just 1 exam. To get CPR certification - okay, one exam makes sense. To get a PE, nah not so much. Better to go the Canadian route and have only certified schools which properly weed out the non-engineers over many years and many exams, assignments, projects, labs etc.
> ...


It's not so much a test to see if you know the right answers, as it is a test to see if you know how and when to apply the correct answers. The first is pretty basic math, the second involves practical knowledge of building and material-specific codes. While they could test for that at graduation, it makes more sense (to me) to wait until after the experience is earned; your point about the transportation engineer is somewhat valid - though I'd argue that they need more specific testing (that is, more limited licensing, rather than a single discipline that includes water/insignificant structures/roads) rather than earlier testing. That is, the issue is that Civil is a discipline that encompasses multiple disciplines, that could be broken up into sub-licenses.

While I certainly have a lot of respect for those that graduate from college, I must say that the number one issue I've seen with them is a lack of knowledge of real-world situations. Knowing the theories is great. Putting them into practice is something completely different. The post-graduation experience gives them the ability to learn the code, and how to apply the code (and the exceptions, special rules, etc. that are within the code) to a specific question. The PE exam is to make sure you know what you are doing in regards to that specific discipline; how many ME-degreed people go into Civil/Structural work? I seem to recall seeing that very discussion on here a while back.


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## chaocl (Apr 22, 2011)

I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 22, 2011)

chaocl said:


> I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.


Honestly not sure that will help when it comes to training good, practical engineers. One of the worst (from a practical standpoint) engineers I ever worked with was a PhD. He learned all the theory, none of the practice. His experience was all lab-based, as well.

What's that saying? The difference between theory and practice is larger in practice than it is in theory?

I suppose he could have been atypical - aside from him, the only PE's/EI's I've worked with regularly have been BS/Architectural Engineering, MS/Physics or BS/Civil Engineering. Oh, and a BA/Architecture that could have been a PE (12 years experience under an engineer) but failed the FE exam twice and gave up.


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## kjeads (Apr 22, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> chaocl said:
> 
> 
> > I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.
> ...


I have to agree with you, particularly as it relates to practical experience. I work in manufacturing, and I have the least amount of respect for Process Engineers with PhD's compared to any other Process Engineer coming from a 4 year college. PhD's, in my experience, have a really difficult time with practicality - they love to theorize about the way things could turn out based on this principle or that principle, but in practice, it rarely ever happens the way they think it will. That results in lost time, lost money, and a general loss of respect for their capabilities as engineers. I'd also take a trained operator with years of process experience and practical knowledge and ask him/her to help with a process design over a PhD almost any day.


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## L_Smith (Apr 22, 2011)

How often do you hear the statement "How did he/she pass the PE?". The PE exam, is a MINIMUM competency test. It does not evaluate how well you know the subject matter, versus knowing just enough to be able to read Code and take a test. Requiring a structural engineer to take a test on water and environmental subjects proves this point.

Codes were created and adopted by various gov/agencies to protect the public from those minimum competency test takers that pass the test. Any average joe can READ code.

Education should not be replaceable. As experience is extremely important in order to get a handle what works in the "real world" in terms of cost and constructability, it is the theory learned in school that allows you to understand the code but most importantly its LIMITATIONS (i.e. why are there rules and exceptions?).

Worrying about over conservative designs being done by under experienced but educated engineer?; It is not anywhere near as bad as an overly confident uneducated PE, under designing structures so close to their approximated demands that it requires a program to accurately analyze their true capacity. (FEA/Structural programs alone should not be used by those that don't understand how they run in the first place, let alone accept their results and not understand the sensitivity or uncertainty of the inputs). This is a recipe for a disaster. It is not worth the risk. The following motto comes to mind:

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING: The Art of Using Materials (that have properties that can only be estimated); To build real structures (that can only be approximately analyzed); and To Withstand Forces (that cannot be accurately known).

I hope for everyone's safety that those who practice engineering without a degree, have taken the time to truly understand all the theory behind the code they are following, or the programs they are using, and not just use the excuse that they had no time, opportunity, and/or money to know better. Or that school programs are being "dumbed down" to attract people. Being a recent graduate (current decade) from 6 years of college (BS and MS), all of my professors emphasized the importance of understanding the theory and the assumptions that structural programs or building codes make, and demonstrated everyday examples of how easy it is to get yourself into trouble.

Now with some years of practical experience, I can definitely add that it is also “what you learn after you know it all that counts" too. No engineers should be excluded from a continued education.

btw…..a masters is in no way a Phd. Although I agree that Phd intelligence on minor engineering design in the consulting world is counterproductive, it is definitely a necessity in field of research and development.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 22, 2011)

L_Smith said:


> How often do you hear the statement "How did he/she pass the PE?". The PE exam, is a MINIMUM competency test. It does not evaluate how well you know the subject matter, versus knowing just enough to be able to read Code and take a test. Requiring a structural engineer to take a test on water and environmental subjects proves this point. Codes were created and adopted by various gov/agencies to protect the public from those minimum competency test takers that pass the test. Any average joe can READ code.
> 
> Education should not be replaceable. As experience is extremely important in order to get a handle what works in the "real world" in terms of cost and constructability, it is the theory learned in school that allows you to understand the code but most importantly its LIMITATIONS (i.e. why are there rules and exceptions?).
> 
> ...


That phrase (well, one very much like it) is/was posted on the wall at my company's office. And yeah, I got myself into trouble in those programs a few times, in the first few years of my experience - the most important thing I learned is that I should always do the first calculation of a specific type by hand at least once before I use software, then use the software to ensure that my hand calculation was accurate.


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## HerrKaLeun (Apr 23, 2011)

L_Smith said:


> How often do you hear the statement "How did he/she pass the PE?". The PE exam, is a MINIMUM competency test. It does not evaluate how well you know the subject matter, versus knowing just enough to be able to read Code and take a test. Requiring a structural engineer to take a test on water and environmental subjects proves this point. Codes were created and adopted by various gov/agencies to protect the public from those minimum competency test takers that pass the test. Any average joe can READ code.
> 
> Education should not be replaceable. As experience is extremely important in order to get a handle what works in the "real world" in terms of cost and constructability, it is the theory learned in school that allows you to understand the code but most importantly its LIMITATIONS (i.e. why are there rules and exceptions?).
> 
> ...


I totally agree. not without reason most jurisdiction require education AND experience. Is there a guy who is smart enough to teach himself from books and experience... sure, someone will be able to be a good engineer without going to school. but majority of engineers really need things to be taught, at least the basics.

I'm spending all day fixing mistakes done by people who either never attended engineering school, or never graduated. the worst people are the ones that say they are right and their only argument is "I've been doing this for 20 years". Guess what, it is not experience if you are always wrong. the problem i see in consulting is, that they always have one PE who attends the meetings (or at least the interview), but the actual work is done by non-college graduated people.


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## humner (Apr 25, 2011)

I would like to point out some people who you may recognize as not going to college, Bed Franklin, Henry Ford, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison (who was also an inovator of pre-fab concrete structures). The list goes on, I am just adding that if someone has the drive and determination to make their way to a PE license on their own, should not be treated as second rate.


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## HerrKaLeun (Apr 25, 2011)

humner said:


> I would like to point out some people who you may recognize as not going to college, Bed Franklin, Henry Ford, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison (who was also an inovator of pre-fab concrete structures). The list goes on, I am just adding that if someone has the drive and determination to make their way to a PE license on their own, should not be treated as second rate.


You make a good point and as I pointed out, there always will be someone smart enough not needing to go to school. After all, someone who didn't go to school must have founded the first school. but the majority of people...

The individuals you mentioned didn't really design structures or buildings that could have endangered the public. Henry Ford for example was a businessmen (with 2 dailed businesses before his succesful business) and maybe we can call him industrial engineer (and he likely had staff that did implement all his assembly line ideas). Industrial engineers working in a car company also today don't need to be licensed.

Today maybe 40% of people go to some college (although I doubt that, since they count the Phoenix etc. as a real school), back in the day of Lincoln, 99% of the population were farmers, so it was normal back then to teach yourself if you wanted to know something. Mostly a prospective engineer became an apprentice with a senior engineer unless he attended one of the few engineering schools.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 25, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I totally agree. not without reason most jurisdiction require education AND experience. Is there a guy who is smart enough to teach himself from books and experience... sure, someone will be able to be a good engineer without going to school. but majority of engineers really need things to be taught, at least the basics.


Just a note, I'm not a guy that was smart enough to teach myself through books and experience. I'm a girl that was... I'm extraordinarily sensitive about this, for a few different reasons.

Also, I agree that the vast majority of people need to be taught in schools. I just happen to think that licensing shouldn't absolutely require a degree; with the way education is handled in the US at the current time, very intelligent and capable (like myself) people can slip through the cracks. But I absolutely agree that this should be an extreme rarity.

I do wish that there was a more standardized experience:education comity. As it stands, I believe I can only get licenses in 2 states at the moment, with a half-dozen more opening up in 2 years or so - and only if I continue to work for another engineer; if I were to split off and make my own practice (in the state for which I am licensed), I don't think I would be able to get those further licenses even with another dozen years of experience, because the experience requirements generally require the experience to be under the direction of another engineer.


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## HerrKaLeun (Apr 25, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> Just a note, I'm not a guy that was smart enough to teach myself through books and experience. I'm a girl that was... I'm extraordinarily sensitive about this, for a few different reasons.
> Also, I agree that the vast majority of people need to be taught in schools. I just happen to think that licensing shouldn't absolutely require a degree; with the way education is handled in the US at the current time, very intelligent and capable (like myself) people can slip through the cracks. But I absolutely agree that this should be an extreme rarity.
> 
> I do wish that there was a more standardized experience:education comity. As it stands, I believe I can only get licenses in 2 states at the moment, with a half-dozen more opening up in 2 years or so - and only if I continue to work for another engineer; if I were to split off and make my own practice (in the state for which I am licensed), I don't think I would be able to get those further licenses even with another dozen years of experience, because the experience requirements generally require the experience to be under the direction of another engineer.


I'm all with you...at my work any time something new comes up they scream " what about training?". where I'd like to respond "what about figuring it out yourselves, you call yourself engineers?". Even when we switched from Office 2000 to Office 2007, half of the people spent all day complaining about how the training was insufficient and they didn't know how to use it. Grrrr...

There should be a solution for people who don't have an ABET degree. Maybe there shouldn't be an easy solution, but a solution. I have a German degree and a US graduate degree, and had the issue that the state board almost let not write me the test because of none was ABET accredited (ABET mainly accredits US bachelor programs, and most foreign engineers with even US PhD degrees struggle with that...)

And the education system is only going downwards....

Did you just have a high school degree or a technical college degree and taught the rest yourself and by working? As you know, alll you learn in school are the basics to be able to figure it out yourself later. The world is changing and engineers constantly need to adapt. Obviously the basics stay the same, but I can see how someone who is bright and driven to figure it out can be a good engineer without school. just the way how you grew up (did you always wanted to know how things work and raided the library to find out) makes a huge difference.


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## knight1fox3 (Apr 26, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I'm all with you...at my work any time something new comes up they scream " what about training?". where I'd like to respond "what about figuring it out yourselves, you call yourself engineers?". Even when we switched from Office 2000 to Office 2007, half of the people spent all day complaining about how the training was insufficient and they didn't know how to use it. Grrrr...


 lusone: One of my pet peeves in working with some engineers.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 26, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I'm all with you...at my work any time something new comes up they scream " what about training?". where I'd like to respond "what about figuring it out yourselves, you call yourself engineers?". Even when we switched from Office 2000 to Office 2007, half of the people spent all day complaining about how the training was insufficient and they didn't know how to use it. Grrrr...
> There should be a solution for people who don't have an ABET degree. Maybe there shouldn't be an easy solution, but a solution. I have a German degree and a US graduate degree, and had the issue that the state board almost let not write me the test because of none was ABET accredited (ABET mainly accredits US bachelor programs, and most foreign engineers with even US PhD degrees struggle with that...)
> 
> And the education system is only going downwards....
> ...


Oh yes... I'm strongly of the "figure it out, if you can't then ask for help" method myself. We went from Office '98 to Office '10 here. It was messy.

I didn't really raid the library; I usually raided the toolbox and disassembled things. Honestly, if I'd gotten a job at a Mechanical shop I think I would have been a perfect fit. Connections - or rather, my ability to visualize connections in my head without having drawings or even physical objects in front of me - tend to be one of my strengths.


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## Carnac (Apr 26, 2011)

Getting back on the topic of the exam, I didn't realize until the lunch break that my roommate during my first semester in college was sitting right behind me.


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## Jakeq (Apr 26, 2011)

So if I read a medical book and pass a medical board does that make me a doctor?


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## Vinsanity (Apr 26, 2011)

^^^^LOL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. I DONT TRUST PE'S WITHOUT A DEGREE, ITS LIKE SELF ACCLAIMED ENGINEERS.


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## Happy (Apr 26, 2011)

Jakeq said:


> So if I read a medical book and pass a medical board does that make me a doctor?


Actually, I think you can become a medical engineer that way. You'd be qualified to build bypasses through the arteries and stuff.


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## Exception Collection (Apr 26, 2011)

Jakeq said:


> So if I read a medical book and pass a medical board does that make me a doctor?






Vinsanity said:


> ^^^^LOL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. I DONT TRUST PE'S WITHOUT A DEGREE, ITS LIKE SELF ACCLAIMED ENGINEERS.



I must say, I'm kind of bothered by the attitudes of some of the people on this board. I mean, I'm all for the free sharing of useful information and I certainly don't mind having reasonable discussions with people that question what I do, how I do it, or even if I'm qualified to do it... but I'd hoped that a board centered on a profession like ours would have fewer trolls - or at least higher quality ones.

We're Engineers, or Engineers in Training. We should be above the kind of intellectual dishonesty or taunting involved in these sorts of comments.

/Hey Kettle, have you noticed that you have a certain sable hue?

And now, please, someone keep the conversation going with the actual topic (April 2011 stories)? This derailment was all because I chose to share my own amusing story about an exam that was a bit older (since I saw other people were sharing theirs).


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## lady_j (Apr 26, 2011)

In my exam, there was a woman who was pregnant and due a few days after the exam! And she looked great- calm, and cool as a cucumber!

Just had to share for all the ladies on the board


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## STEEL MAN (May 1, 2011)

chaocl said:


> I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.



I totally agree with this move by NCEES , the purpose for this is to eliminate non professionals getting a license. It seems board in different states only care about money, they accept FE/PE examinees with experience and have the money to pay for the exams but without proper education.


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## chaocl (May 2, 2011)

STEEL MAN said:


> chaocl said:
> 
> 
> > I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.
> ...


That will apply in 2020 application. People who hold a PE license that will be ok with their degree but people who apply later than 2020 will be required. People who already apply with the board but didn't passed the exam until 2020 might not required to have the master degree at that time.


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## HerrKaLeun (May 2, 2011)

chaocl said:


> That will apply in 2020 application. People who hold a PE license that will be ok with their degree but people who apply later than 2020 will be required. People who already apply with the board but didn't passed the exam until 2020 might not required to have the master degree at that time.


If you applied today (and started taking the exam this year) and still didn't pass the exam in 2020, you really should not get a license, ever. Degree or no degree...


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## chaocl (May 2, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> chaocl said:
> 
> 
> > That will apply in 2020 application. People who hold a PE license that will be ok with their degree but people who apply later than 2020 will be required. People who already apply with the board but didn't passed the exam until 2020 might not required to have the master degree at that time.
> ...


I might not having the time for taking the master degree after a while because the money issue and the time issue (I can't be that selfish for using the family budget to do what I want. I already spent 4 years for study the FE and PE (time and money). I have my own life and it is time for me to spend more time with my family now.

By the way if I have the chance to take the master degree that I will take MBA instead of engineering.


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## STEEL MAN (May 2, 2011)

chaocl said:


> HerrKaLeun said:
> 
> 
> > chaocl said:
> ...


NCEES Master in Engineering requirement will take effect 2020. Most people in this board sgould have their PE by then, this is applicable only for new generation.


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## Exception Collection (May 2, 2011)

STEEL MAN said:


> chaocl said:
> 
> 
> > HerrKaLeun said:
> ...


Yup. And if you're concerned about comity applications, most (all?) states base comity on whether you meet the qualifications that were in place at the time of obtaining your first license, not if you meet current requirements - though I suppose if the current requirements are lesser than they were previously, they'd accept those as well. Not that any profession ever lowers their standards; even phone-based customer service jobs generally "require" 4-year degrees, at least where I live.

I'm right there with you in regards to money. If I had the money to attend college while paying for the things I need, I would do it in a heartbeat. But I don't, and attending college part-time would probably cause more issues than it would be worth.


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## STEEL MAN (May 2, 2011)

money is not the issue here we are talking about NCEES requirement i term of education for PE licensure in the future.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 2, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> I must say, I'm kind of bothered by the attitudes of some of the people on this board.


I hear you. The incessant Animal House jokes, the pursuit of phatty money, and the worship of all things European is just horrible, isn't it?


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## envirotex (May 2, 2011)

Karen S. P.E. said:


> chaocl said:
> 
> 
> > I think that is why we need a Master Degree to take the PE in 2020.
> ...


I would have to agree. I think that most of the experience that you receive during the pursuit of a masters degree is not the kind of real world training that you need to be an engineer. Usually, in graduate work you pick a very specialized topic and perform very detailed and specific analyses for what ever that topic might be. That's not the kind of practical work experience that I think most people on this board have and need to pass the exam. My opinion of the exam was that it covered a broad range of topics that I was either very familiar with from my work or had some exposure to in my work. The FE was for the basics that you learn in school...

Give me an EIT with 3 years of experience over a newly graduated MS any day...


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 2, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Karen S. P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > I must say, I'm kind of bothered by the attitudes of some of the people on this board.
> ...


Don't forget the taboo, risque topic of lunch.


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 2, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > Karen S. P.E. said:
> ...


Im just glad we're not tasked with Stormwater modeling...


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## STEEL MAN (May 2, 2011)

Give me an EIT with 3 years of experience over a newly graduated MS any day...


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## Capt Worley PE (May 3, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > Capt Worley PE said:
> ...


I understand that's the most difficult task in engineering. That being said, a rich European could easily accomplish it over lunch at the cafeteria.


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## envirotex (May 3, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Dexman PE said:
> 
> 
> > VTEnviro said:
> ...


During a break from taking the PE exam...


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## STEEL MAN (May 3, 2011)

During a break from taking the PE exam...


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## Dexman PE PMP (May 3, 2011)

STEEL MAN said:


> > During a break from taking the PE exam...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, no way.


Way


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## Capt Worley PE (May 3, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> STEEL MAN said:
> 
> 
> > > During a break from taking the PE exam...
> ...


You forgot the 'fixed it.'


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 4, 2011)

Dexman PE said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > Capt Worley PE said:
> ...


He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I'll model stormwater for him!


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## humner (May 5, 2011)

Back on the topic of the exam. It was to all the mens horror when we discovered that the bathroom we had access to only had one urinal and one crapper. Nothing like sitting for 4 hours and then have to wait in line to pee.


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## Guest (May 5, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> Don't forget the taboo, risque topic of lunch.


Did you say .... lunch?! 

JR


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## Otter (May 5, 2011)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Karen S. P.E. said:
> 
> 
> > I must say, I'm kind of bothered by the attitudes of some of the people on this board.
> ...


Eric Stratton, rush chairman. Damn glad to meet you.


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## Boon (May 5, 2011)

Hi, that was Eric Stratton, rush chairman. He was damn glad to meet you.


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## Flounder (May 5, 2011)

You guys playing cards?


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## Dean Wormer (May 5, 2011)

I hate those guys.


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## D-Day (May 5, 2011)

[SIZE=24pt]RAMMING SPEED![/SIZE]


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## Boon (May 5, 2011)

Let's take the cheese.


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## snickerd3 (May 5, 2011)

humner said:


> Back on the topic of the exam. It was to all the mens horror when we discovered that the bathroom we had access to only had one urinal and one crapper. Nothing like sitting for 4 hours and then have to wait in line to pee.


welcome to the problem women face all the time!!!!!


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## Steve Wilkos (May 5, 2011)

humner said:


> Nothing like sitting for 4 hours and then have to wait in line to pee.


Humner, we asked, "Did you pee in the sink rather than wait in line." You said no. And the lie deterctor results say...you did not tell the truth!


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## The Audience (May 5, 2011)

OOOooooo!!! BOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve, Steve, Steve!!!


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## D-Day (May 5, 2011)

Let it go. War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.


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## Flounder (May 5, 2011)

I can't believe I puked in front of Dean Wormer.


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## Boon (May 5, 2011)

Face it, Kent. You threw up "on" Dean Wormer.


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## Charlie (May 5, 2011)

I did a little more than that. Got crazy!


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## humner (May 5, 2011)

no on the sink this time, not saying that there was never a bar in Ft Worth Texas with a very low sink basin set and I used that. But to my credit on that one, I did not go home with any of those women.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (May 5, 2011)

D-Day said:


> Let it go. War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.


What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


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## David Wooderson (May 5, 2011)

Man, it's the same bullshit they tried to pull in my day. If it ain't that piece of paper, there's some other choice they're gonna try and make for you. You gotta do what Randall Pink Floyd wants to do man. Let me tell you this, the older you do get the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N.


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## Coastal Engineer (May 29, 2011)

VTEnviro said:


> We had Edna and Gert at my exam too back in the day.
> What did you folks do for lunch? It's a major topic around here.



South Carolina Society of Professional Engineers provided pizza and sodas. Very nice actually.


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## Coastal Engineer (May 29, 2011)

HerrKaLeun said:


> ngnrd said:
> 
> 
> > I'd rather hire someone with no degree that had enough experience and competency to pass the exam on the first attempt than someone that holds a degree but took 8 shots at the exam before they finally got lucky and passed.
> ...


I thought it was common practice to ask for the experience and education levels for any engineer that you contract out. I always have. I'll also admit that I have known two professional engineers who did not have college education but through lots of experience and studying passed the test anyways. The state where those two were registered (they are retired) has since required a minimum of 4 years for a BS and 6 years for a two year engineering tech degree.

I guess I would encourage anyone who hires the services of an engineering firm to feel free to check out the education and experience of those engineers that are providing them services. I have never felt bad asking and some firms volunteer the information upfront without asking.


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## Exception Collection (May 29, 2011)

mill75 said:


> HerrKaLeun said:
> 
> 
> > ngnrd said:
> ...


You should never feel bad for asking. I know when our firm seeks contracts we have no issues supplying resumes of relevant employees, with all relevant information (education, experience, specialties, etc) on them. And if someone asks where I went to school, I will explain the situation to them - usually in greater detail than they care about.


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## pbrme (Jun 3, 2011)

Anyone else take the test in WA? In the afternoon sesh at the convention center, there were two aholes on either side of the room have a coughing contest. When ever I got tired, or couldn't quickly understand the solution I would turn to one of them, glare and shoot imaginary lasers from my eyes with silent "Pew-Pew" sounds. Seriously? Drink some water... It was rough. DON'T forget earplugs newbs, and take 5 sec. breaks like this.


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## PsychoNumber1 (Jun 3, 2011)

JNewell said:


> Anyone else take the test in WA? In the afternoon sesh at the convention center, there were two aholes on either side of the room have a coughing contest. When ever I got tired, or couldn't quickly understand the solution I would turn to one of them, glare and shoot imaginary lasers from my eyes with silent "Pew-Pew" sounds. Seriously? Drink some water... It was rough. DON'T forget earplugs newbs, and take 5 sec. breaks like this.


in sacramento, we had protors with coughs who roamed the rows of people hacking away.


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## dmparri3 (Jun 3, 2011)

I took the exam in Florida (Kissimmee) and the setup was 2 people to a table. The moning session wasn't bad, but in the afternoon the guy next to me kept erasing really hard, shaking the table violently every time. Luckily he finished with about 2 hours left, but after handing in his exam materials he packed up his belongings very loudly (slamming his backpack on the table, shufflling various other things loudly, etc.). In other words he made a lot of noise, disturbing not just me, but everyone around me. Hopefully his short time in the afternoon meant that he gave up and will be taking the exam again in October.


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## Sam77 (Jun 3, 2011)

In Idaho, since the NCEES exam authorization says that the report time is 7:15am, a few people were out of the building 10 minutes earlier than that. It appeared that 7:15am is the time doors are open which leads us to wait out in the cold weather for a while (parking lot is about a 5-minute walk to the building ). I suggested for them in the examinee survey to change the report time to (7:15am-7:45am) or something like that.


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## palvarez83 (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm a mechanical PE and sat for the Electrical PE in Pomona, CA this time (still awaiting results). During there was a guy who ate nothing but bananas. I mean this guy, no joke was walking around with two bundles of bananas and was scarfing them down in seconds! My friends and I were laughing hysterically. Since eating was not allowed while sitting , one had to go to the pathway to eat... In the afternoon, I went to the bathroom 2 times and ran into the guy eating yet more bananas! Wow! That guy must hold a record!


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## Exception Collection (Jun 5, 2011)

palvarez83 said:


> I'm a mechanical PE and sat for the Electrical PE in Pomona, CA this time (still awaiting results). During there was a guy who ate nothing but bananas. I mean this guy, no joke was walking around with two bundles of bananas and was scarfing them down in seconds! My friends and I were laughing hysterically. Since eating was not allowed while sitting , one had to go to the pathway to eat... In the afternoon, I went to the bathroom 2 times and ran into the guy eating yet more bananas! Wow! That guy must hold a record!


I used to eat bananas that much sometimes. Now I can't; I'm on a med that prevents/slows my body from removing potassium, so I have to avoid Potassium-heavy foods or become hyperkalemic. 1 or 2 bananas per week is all I eat, when I eat them at all, I shouldn't eat the skins of potatoes if I have them at all, and I can't chow down on peanuts.

During my exams (not this year) I took water and a bag of trail mix. For the lunch, I placed an order ahead of time for a restaurant I liked, and ate quickly. One of the benefits of taking exams in cities you know well: You can find stuff quickly. Also, my hometown is a large enough city that several restaurants are within driving distance but small enough that traffic doesn't snarl.


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## James3AE (Jun 5, 2011)

dmparri3 said:


> I took the exam in Florida (Kissimmee) and the setup was 2 people to a table. The moning session wasn't bad, but in the afternoon the guy next to me kept erasing really hard, shaking the table violently every time. Luckily he finished with about 2 hours left, but after handing in his exam materials he packed up his belongings very loudly (slamming his backpack on the table, shufflling various other things loudly, etc.). In other words he made a lot of noise, disturbing not just me, but everyone around me. Hopefully his short time in the afternoon meant that he gave up and will be taking the exam again in October.


same two people to a table in Jersey. When i took the FE two years ago I had a guy that was erasing a ton. This time I think I was the guy that was annoying, since I bumped my foot in to the table leg a few times while getting my reference books out.

Anyone else take it in central Jersey? The tables were horrible, only about 18 inches or so deep. It was very tough to keep everything organized.


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## GS_Beacon (Jun 9, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> Anything fun and exciting happen at you test site? from a post I read it sounds like the answer is yes. please share!!


Not really... I took my PE exam in Brooklyn, NY inside a big gym at Pratt Institute. Just a few things of note:

1. Many examinees brought cell phones and had to leave them up at the proctor's table in each section. The NCEES volunteers were thoughtful enough to have resealable plastic bags for all those phones. I wondered what would happen if they ran out of bags... thankfully I don't think anyone was kicked out. What sucked for me was that we had to leave food and drink up at the proctor's table as well! ("What, no snacking during the exam!?")
2. As this took place in a gym, a TV on a balcony wound up blaring the local weather forecast just as the proctors were announcing the instructions in the AM session. It took them a good 5 minutes to figure out how to shut the TV off.
3. We were allowed a little more than an hour for lunch, which was plenty of time to recover from the AM session. However, from the sheer number of examinees (I believe the number was close to 600 that day), we didn't wind up leaving till close to 6 pm!


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