# COVID-19



## csuhokie

It appears that NCEES is starting to cancel (not postpone) April 2020 exams in some countries (not the U.S. yet): https://ncees.org/covid-19/


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## sol_ring

If I get all the way through the AEI lateral course only to have the exam cancelled...I'm not sure what I'll do but I won't be happy lol.


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## Titleistguy

It's better than getting sick.  I'm sure NCEES will refund or at least allow xfer of money and I'd suspect AEI may be willing to make accommodations.  

Don't worry.  Saying healthy is more import.


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## DoctorWho-PE

sol_ring said:


> If I get all the way through the AEI lateral course only to have the exam cancelled...I'm not sure what I'll do but I won't be happy lol.


I will be.  J/K.

I'm so lost and behid right now!


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## Titleistguy

Oh stop Vharb...you know what you're doing.


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## User1

csuhokie said:


> It appears that NCEES is starting to cancel (not postpone) April 2020 exams in some countries (not the U.S. yet): https://ncees.org/covid-19/


I've asked our state dept of licensing if they are planning on canceling since i'm in seattle and seattle is canceling all events with 250+ attendees... but they said not yet.

ncees i believe is offering refunds if you do want to personally cancel, according to the response I got, but not sure if that's officially announced?


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## davab

tj_PE said:


> I've asked our state dept of licensing if they are planning on canceling since i'm in seattle and seattle is canceling all events with 250+ attendees... but they said not yet.
> 
> ncees i believe is offering refunds if you do want to personally cancel, according to the response I got, but not sure if that's officially announced?


Oh lord..

I am in Orange County, California. Another densely populated region.. I don't see this slowing down anytime soon..


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## davab

Has cancelling the exam ever happen in NCEES history?


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## RBHeadge PE

davab said:


> Has cancelling the exam ever happen in NCEES history?


Sorta. I believe there was an international site where local conditions temporarily shut down the exam site on the planned day of the test. IIRC they just rescheduled the exam for a day or two earlier/later.

But generally speaking, this is uncharted territory for something on a massive scale.


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## organix

Risk aside... part of me wouldn't love having studied so hard for so long just to wait another 6 months, but another part of me says I could use the extra 6 months.  It would be rough if the codes change in the meantime too and I never got a shot at this set of codes.


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## davab

organix said:


> Risk aside... part of me wouldn't love having studied so hard for so long just to wait another 6 months, but another part of me says I could use the extra 6 months.  It would be rough if the codes change in the meantime too and I never got a shot at this set of codes.


Wholeheartedly agree. Same feeling here.


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## davab

My plan was to aim to pass both this April and if not, at least pass one and be done by this October. The entire plan may need to change now. Also, with NBA suspending all games indefinitely, I don't see why NCEES wouldn't suspend exams as we get closer to the test day.


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## Titleistguy

Yea it seems like this thing is going to be probably peaking right around the exam.  I may just cancel regardless of if they do or not.  I can wait a test cycle, and even if the codes do change they dont change that much and I'm almost certain October will be on IBC2015 now next year I'd bet money they go to 2018...but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.... all I know is the SE room where I took it was tiny .... but AFTER you made your way thru the couple hundred PE folks. 

Scary times.


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## StandardPractice

Hopefully NCEES and/or state boards make a decision sooner than later. With only a ~month until exams, they need to take the lead with a call one way or the other.


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## User1

Titleistguy said:


> Yea it seems like this thing is going to be probably peaking right around the exam.  I may just cancel regardless of if they do or not.  I can wait a test cycle, and even if the codes do change they dont change that much and I'm almost certain October will be on IBC2015 now next year I'd bet money they go to 2018...but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.... all I know is the SE room where I took it was tiny .... but AFTER you made your way thru the couple hundred PE folks.
> 
> Scary times.


we sit in the same huge ass room with all the PEers


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## Titleistguy

Oh man TJ ... we didn't.  We had to fight thru a giant reception area tho with them all and got sequestered in a special room.  But in theory would have been exposed just the same.


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## organix

The test location near Chicago is also one big mixed room.


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## Stardust

Titleistguy said:


> Oh man TJ ... we didn't.  We had to fight thru a giant reception area tho with them all and got sequestered in a special room.  But in theory would have been exposed just the same.


Is this the Detroit test site? If so, what would you estimate the number of people that got together there?


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## Titleistguy

Yes it was.

And I'd say easily between 200-300.  

4 SE ...


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## Titleistguy

That's a pic from about two weeks before the tests in October...they had those desks packed to the back of the room.


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## User1

i was just gonna be like ooooooo i hope you didnt take a picture during the exam...and then share it!

i shoulda known better lol


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## Stardust

We will see but gathering of hundreds of people is not a small risk..


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## Reverse Polish

organix said:


> The test location near Chicago is also one big mixed room.


When I took the exam in Illinois this past October, the room was only the 60-70 SE examinees.  Illinois has separate testing locations for the PE exams.  Given that the exam is administered by a third-party testing service, and Illinois has a separate Structural Engineering Board, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## organix

Reverse Polish said:


> When I took the exam in Illinois this past October, the room was only the 60-70 SE examinees.  Illinois has separate testing locations for the PE exams.  Given that the exam is administered by a third-party testing service, and Illinois has a separate Structural Engineering Board, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.


Oh really?  The place I signed up for is the same I took my PE years ago and I remember seeing the SE people there... but I guess I can't say I can guarantee we were in the same room at the time, though I thought it was.  Either way, maybe it's different now.


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## Titleistguy

I wonder when NCEES is gonna make a decision either way.  Or if they're even considering it.


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## Titleistguy

....from NCEES site ....

Medical/surgical face masks (must be worn or placed on the floor; proctors must visually inspect the mask; mask must be removed for ID verification

Then what's the point of the mask? And if I was a proctors I'd tell NCEES to kick rocks ... I'm fairly certain those folks aren't paid well enough to "touch" and "inspect" peoples masks ... honestly it's the proctors at the biggest risk and, let's be honest,  most of which tend to be older.


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## DoctorWho-PE

tj_PE said:


> we sit in the same huge ass room with all the PEers


We do too, except it is not a huge room, there are maybe 100 people at our site?  The SE group is going to be huge this time - I know of 3 people taking it. When I took the PE, there was one solo SE person.


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## Titleistguy

I have to admit. Our SE room was sorta nice bc it was such a small crowd.  The proctors were nice too.  But the irony of a small room is its soooooo quiet.  Making aggressive page flippers that much more annoying.


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## Hindianapolis

What if you dont have a mask? I tried buying without luck.


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## DoctorWho-PE

Titleistguy said:


> Oh stop Vharb...you know what you're doing.


I wish.  I was doing ok until concrete.  I don't do a lot of concrete!


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## Titleistguy

vhab49_PE said:


> I wish.  I was doing ok until concrete.  I don't do a lot of


The concrete isnt bad once you see that bc it's all most 100% prescriptive that for the most part its just knowing the checks for the memeber type and system type.  I have some good references I'd suggest that summarize this greatly.  Both are written by David Fanella.

One is his CRSI Seismic design of low rise conc buildings which is outstanding bc its organized by SDC and his concrete design text book,  which I believe the latest is a 2nd edition.


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## DoctorWho-PE

Titleistguy said:


> The concrete isnt bad once you see that bc it's all most 100% prescriptive that for the most part its just knowing the checks for the memeber type and system type.  I have some good references I'd suggest that summarize this greatly.  Both are written by David Fanella.
> 
> One is his CRSI Seismic design of low rise conc buildings which is outstanding bc its organized by SDC and his concrete design text book,  which I believe the latest is a 2nd edition.


Thanks. I'll check them out.


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## RBHeadge PE

FWIW, the number of PE examinees this administration will probably be about 15-20% less than previous years because the ME's are going CBT this spring.

On the other hand, I don't think the State and Local authorities are going to care much about the distinction between 249 people and 251 people. If the jurisdiction is taking the social distancing controls seriously, their going to err on the side of caution.



Titleistguy said:


> I wonder when NCEES is gonna make a decision either way.  Or if they're even considering it.


I don't speak for NCEES nor do I have any inside information, but I can see what is going on everywhere else in the country. I'm certain they are exploring all the options and I'd imagine they're like everyone else and will be making a decision sooner than later.



Titleistguy said:


> ....from NCEES site ....
> 
> Medical/surgical face masks (must be worn or placed on the floor; proctors must visually inspect the mask; mask must be removed for ID verification
> 
> Then what's the point of the mask? And if I was a proctors I'd tell NCEES to kick rocks ... I'm fairly certain those folks aren't paid well enough to "touch" and "inspect" peoples masks ... honestly it's the proctors at the biggest risk and, let's be honest,  most of which tend to be older.


Again, I don't speak for NCEES, but I can't imagine that the "inspection" is anything more than a quick visual inspection to make sure that there aren't any recording devices, electronics, or written material (read: exam questions) hand written on the mask.


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## STR_BR

FYI


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## WickedYetCivil

Official email just went out April exams are canceled.


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## Sheik




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## sol_ring

Welp, better now that April I suppose. Besides, how hard can it be to retain all this information for 7 months?


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## davab

I didn't get any email yet but I assume that I will be getting an official email from NCEES about the cancellation of my SE exam.


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## thedaywa1ker

@davab

No need to wait for an email, it is on their website: https://ncees.org/covid-19/

I understand why, but that doesn't help the frustration much.  I guess I'll be taking both in October to try and beat the code change.  RIP football season. Edit: Assuming the world hasn't ended by then...


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## Duke

I was scheduled to take lateral in IL, just got the official cancelation email.


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## organix

I still haven’t gotten anything... I’m sure I will, but I would’ve figured it was one auto-mass email.


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## Titleistguy

Well saw this coming ...

My office went from suggesting we stay home to basically ordering us to stay home for are least 4 to 6 weeks.


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## JP87

Anyone who already received the cancelation email have their dashboard updated? Mine hasn't switched over... Already canceled my hotel rsvp....


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## Stardust

Mine looks the same, I wouldn’t worry about it.


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## thedaywa1ker

My dashboard is updated, back to the big red unacceptable.

I asked about refunds...we'll be getting our exam fees back within 30 days. I still haven't gotten an email about the cancellation, so I don't know if the emails you guys are getting mentioned refunds.


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## organix

My Dashboard only shows my PE exam now... I actually still never got an official email saying the exam was cancelled.  Any chance you had to deal with continental testing too?  I wonder if they're issuing refunds too?


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## thedaywa1ker

organix said:


> My Dashboard only shows my PE exam now... I actually still never got an official email saying the exam was cancelled.  Any chance you had to deal with continental testing too?  I wonder if they're issuing refunds too?


Nope, never heard of continental...I've only dealt with NCEES and South Carolina's licensing board.  Still no email telling me its cancelled.  If it wasn't for this board, I'd still be planning on showing up to the test site in a few weeks.


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## maa_sf

organix said:


> My Dashboard only shows my PE exam now... I actually still never got an official email saying the exam was cancelled.  Any chance you had to deal with continental testing too?  I wonder if they're issuing refunds too?


I had to submit an application with Continental Testing for Illinois. I did not contact either the IL board or continental yet. Will do after a week.


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## SoCalPE

Just confirmed with NCEES. The codes won't change.


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## thedaywa1ker

SoCalPE said:


> Just confirmed with NCEES. The codes won't change.


Were you asking them about this October exam?  Or the following April?


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## SoCalPE

thedaywa1ker said:


> Were you asking them about this October exam?  Or the following April?


For the October 2020 exam.


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## Duke

For fellow IL takers, I contacted CTS.



> In light of the April 2020 NCEES examinations being cancelled, it is our understanding that all approved applicants will be refunded by NCEES. The fee that applicants have paid here to Continental Testing Services will be honored for the October examination instead. Applicants will only need to reapply to NCEES for the October examination in order to be approved.


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## organix

Thank for the info Duke!


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## Stardust

Damn, it's hard to sink 200-300 hours into studying while it's not certain the exam will happen -_-;;;;


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## Titleistguy

Going on record now thinking October 2020 exam will be canceled as well.  If things keep going how they are.


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## Dothracki PE

Stardust said:


> Damn, it's hard to sink 200-300 hours into studying while it's not certain the exam will happen -_-;;;;


Yes it is. We can only hope certain people come to their senses and do something about it. I don't think we can afford another lock down.


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## organix

Titleistguy said:


> Going on record now thinking October 2020 exam will be canceled as well.  If things keep going how they are.


Hurt my soul just reading these words...


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## thedaywa1ker

I'll buy and wear a friggin hazmat suit and take the exam in the parking lot in 100 degree SC October heat if they'll let me take this test


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## User1

thedaywa1ker said:


> I'll buy and wear a friggin hazmat suit and take the exam in the parking lot in 100 degree SC October heat if they'll let me take this test


I do not agree. lmao


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## thedaywa1ker

tj_PE said:


> I do not agree. lmao


Lol.  Slight exaggeration...but if I have to take it next year I'll be studying with our first baby in the house.  Given the choice of peaceful studying and hazmat suit or studying with a baby and zero sleep...its close.  Either way, best case is they give everyone at the exam center their own table and jug of hand sanitizer and require masks and let us take it this october.


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## User1

thedaywa1ker said:


> Lol.  Slight exaggeration...but if I have to take it next year I'll be studying with our first baby in the house.  Given the choice of peaceful studying and hazmat suit or studying with a baby and zero sleep...its close.  Either way, best case is they give everyone at the exam center their own table and jug of hand sanitizer and require masks and let us take it this october.


I agree. full tables, space the rows further apart, maybe the tables have a couple feet on each side too, gives us more space to put all our references too! 

also probably smaller rooms of people.


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## leggo PE

Maybe I shouldn't even bother applying for next spring then? Haha... I actually just don't want to think about putting the silly SE exam application together (for California's BPELSG).


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## StandardPractice

thedaywa1ker said:


> Lol.  Slight exaggeration...but if I have to take it next year I'll be studying with our first baby in the house.  Given the choice of peaceful studying and hazmat suit or studying with a baby and zero sleep...its close.  Either way, best case is they give everyone at the exam center their own table and jug of hand sanitizer and require masks and let us take it this october.






tj_PE said:


> I agree. full tables, space the rows further apart, maybe the tables have a couple feet on each side too, gives us more space to put all our references too!
> 
> also probably smaller rooms of people.


I agree, I could see this working fairly easily for the SE exam takers, specifically on Saturday. Not so much the PE exam takers which makes me think the exam will get cancelled as well. I keep studying though, but with the mindset it's for the betterment of myself as an engineer so I don't get disappointed with a cancellation lol. Thankfully my studying is review of material I was studying hard in the spring. So I'm not trying to muster motivation to slog through new concepts.


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## thedaywa1ker

StandardPractice said:


> I agree, I could see this working fairly easily for the SE exam takers, specifically on Saturday. Not so much the PE exam takers which makes me think the exam will get cancelled as well. I keep studying though, but with the mindset it's for the betterment of myself as an engineer so I don't get disappointed with a cancellation lol. Thankfully my studying is review of material I was studying hard in the spring. So I'm not trying to muster motivation to slog through new concepts.


Yeah, I dont know if its this way in all states, but in SC the SE takers already got their own table and they were already a few feet apart.  Cap the # of test takers (this possibility is why I signed up the first day)...find a 2nd testing center for the overflow...kick the CBT transition effort into high gear (least likely)...if they really want to I think they can figure something out.  They've had 4 months to think about it and have 3 more until go time.  I choose to remain optimistic.  An entire year of not allowing any newly licensed engineers just sounds crazy


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## Titleistguy

So in Michigan we had our own 8 footer, see picture... and we only had 4 or 5 people sitting for it on both days.  So I can't see how much more distanced we can be lol ... the issue was the THRONG of PE people we had to slither thru to get to our room so at least at my test site, I can see these logistics being complicated with any social dist requirements. 

Not trying to be negative, but I see all the folks not wearing masks and congregating (Google Torch Lake Michigan 4th of July, for example) ... and then look at the numbers and it's not hard to see where this is going.


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## Dothracki PE

Titleistguy said:


> Not trying to be negative, but I see all the folks not wearing masks and congregating (Google Torch Lake Michigan 4th of July, for example) ... and then look at the numbers and it's not hard to see where this is going.


Walking in NYC, I see just about every other person walking down the street not wearing a mask. I can't imagine how it is in other states and cities with lesser restrictions.


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## DoctorWho-PE

In Iowa we are with the PE people.  My last PE session there was one SE taker.


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## Titleistguy

ryankon518 said:


> Walking in NYC, I see just about every other person walking down the street not wearing a mask. I can't imagine how it is in other states and cities with lesser restrictions.


So I travel quite a bit for work, and at least what I've seen from the mid west (Detroit, Ohio, Tennessee,  and Kentucky) ... I'm seeing 50 percent (at best) in terms of masking wearing.  That's why I'm a bit bearish on the whole notion of this test actually happening.  I'll certainly prepare as if it were happening but unless something big changes to keep the numbers from going up.  So we'll see.


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## Stardust

Titleistguy said:


> So I travel quite a bit for work, and at least what I've seen from the mid west (Detroit, Ohio, Tennessee,  and Kentucky) ... I'm seeing 50 percent (at best) in terms of masking wearing.  That's why I'm a bit bearish on the whole notion of this test actually happening.  I'll certainly prepare as if it were happening but unless something big changes to keep the numbers from going up.  So we'll see.


50% sounds high when you're talking about those states.

btw, do you know what is the current MI's restrictions on in-door gatherings?


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## organix

StandardPractice said:


> *I agree, I could see this working fairly easily for the SE exam takers, specifically on Saturday.* Not so much the PE exam takers which makes me think the exam will get cancelled as well. I keep studying though, but with the mindset it's for the betterment of myself as an engineer so I don't get disappointed with a cancellation lol. Thankfully my studying is review of material I was studying hard in the spring. So I'm not trying to muster motivation to slog through new concepts.


I think this has been adjusted now due to COVID, right?  If I remember correctly, the exam schedule is now on Thursday and Friday and they've split the PE takers between these days too.  So the good thing is the total amount of people on any given day is less, but the second day won't be as empty as it would have been also.


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## StandardPractice

organix said:


> I think this has been adjusted now due to COVID, right?  If I remember correctly, the exam schedule is now on Thursday and Friday and they've split the PE takers between these days too.  So the good thing is the total amount of people on any given day is less, but the second day won't be as empty as it would have been also.


Dang I didn't know this! Good to know


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## Titleistguy

So splitting the days is a good first step, but the test in my mind will be if masks are allowed.  Otherwise I'm not sold on how effective it'll be.  You'll still have people sharing a room for 8 hours breathing the same air, coughing, sharing the door knobs and bathrooms ... and good luck finding proctors.  We'll see.


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## TheLoneStarEngineer

Pretty much sums up how most of 2020 is going.


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## User1

but why is the finish flag shown? cause like it's not really visible yet?


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## thedaywa1ker

Email from NCEES today...this is good news, it seems they're determined to have the exams in October.  There's a chance they can cancel some peoples exams if the center is too crowded and they need to reduce their numbers...that would suck. Hopefully they let people who were signed up for an exam that got cancelled in April get priority and not get 2 exams cancelled in a row.


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## Stardust

hm how do I sign up to get these emails -_-?


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## DoctorWho-PE

Stardust said:


> hm how do I sign up to get these emails -_-?


I paid a lot of money to get it.


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## Pur_SE_

Anyone have any recommendations on types of masks/face coverings?...I have the issue that they are always fogging my glasses. Plus comfortable wear for 8hrs+?...


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## Dothracki PE

Pur_SE_ said:


> Anyone have any recommendations on types of masks/face coverings?...I have the issue that they are always fogging my glasses. Plus comfortable wear for 8hrs+?...


There a lot of suggestions on google search for comfortable face masks. Here is one article with a few good suggestions: https://footwearnews.com/feature/comfortable-face-masks-to-purchase-1203015872/


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## User1

Pur_SE_ said:


> Anyone have any recommendations on types of masks/face coverings?...I have the issue that they are always fogging my glasses. Plus comfortable wear for 8hrs+?...


i've actually found that the kid size ones from target fit my face the best, i just have to extend the elastic so it doesn't pullmy ears forward.


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## GBP212

Going to be interesting for people in states where gatherings capped at say 50 people...


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## User1

GBP212 said:


> Going to be interesting for people in states where gatherings capped at say 50 people...


yeah...washington is not more than 10 people until phase 4...


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## thedaywa1ker

If reducing the # of test takers is based on state specific regulations, then I feel pretty good about my test chances in South Carolina


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## DoctorWho-PE

tj_PE said:


> i've actually found that the kid size ones from target fit my face the best, i just have to extend the elastic so it doesn't pullmy ears forward.


I have been making mine, and the last couple I make the elastic loop long enough to reach my ponytail, keeps it off my ears.


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## DoctorWho-PE

GBP212 said:


> Going to be interesting for people in states where gatherings capped at say 50 people...


Well I guess that is the good thing about being in a state where it is a free-for-all. Plus, if my kids have to go to school, they should be able to hold this exam.


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## User1

vhab49_PE said:


> I have been making mine, and the last couple I make the elastic loop long enough to reach my ponytail, keeps it off my ears.


clever! i have a thing of elastic on its way to me in addition to the extra masks i ordered. so i'll be assembling this weekend and maybe will make some of both options!


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## leggo PE

Interesting! By those guidelines, is no drinking of water allowed? That might make for one very uncomfortable and extremely dehydrated leggo...

Of course, I'm not planning on take the SE exam until next April. But then, who knows where this country and all states will be by that time.


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## diegoshevchuk

thedaywa1ker said:


> If reducing the # of test takers is based on state specific regulations, then I feel pretty good about my test chances in South Carolina


good idea


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## mdw

Has anyone in California taking the test in October received a cancellation email or a revised location? I heard a couple people might have had this happen, but that may just be for the PE.


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## thedaywa1ker

In the AEI SE review class this weekend people in the chat were discussing an email they got from the California board saying they can take it in Nevada since their was cancelled.  Not sure if it was all California testing locations or just a few...I'm not in CA so I can't say for sure


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## SoCalPE

mdw said:


> Has anyone in California taking the test in October received a cancellation email or a revised location? I heard a couple people might have had this happen, but that may just be for the PE.


I received an email last week of August saying all exams in CA are cancelled. Not sure about PE, but for SEs they moved the exam to Las Vegas, which was still up in the air. NCEES were going to let all candidates know by September 10 if any cancellations were necessary due to capacity restrictions at the site. 

Since September 10 has passed, and based on my chat with NCEES they said I was still scheduled. As of today, I have booked my hotel room and hoping for no further surprises. I must say that it has been hard to focus on studying with all the uncertainty going around.


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## GBP212

Has NCEES cancelled anyone's exam at this point? Curious as I have yet to hear of any cancellations due to capacity restrictions etc.


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## User1

GBP212 said:


> Has NCEES cancelled anyone's exam at this point? Curious as I have yet to hear of any cancellations due to capacity restrictions etc.


washington has been approved for 200 people. they relocated the SE examinees to a different location to help with capacity restrictions which gave us another opportunity for refund. but I haven't heard of anyone getting cancelled with no choice yet


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## DoctorWho-PE

Iowa is still on as far as I know.


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## JP87

Nevada is still on and it looks like they created a second testing site. I know California canceled and Nevada picked up a lot of the overflow from that.


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## EB91

Illinois restrictions in DuPage County just decreased gatherings to 25 people on starting Friday, October 23. Crossing my fingers that my registration isn't canceled!


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## Br_Engr

Guest EB91 said:


> Illinois restrictions in DuPage County just decreased gatherings to 25 people on starting Friday, October 23. Crossing my fingers that my registration isn't canceled!


Maybe if that becomes an issue, they can get a second room.


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## organix

Guest EB91 said:


> Illinois restrictions in DuPage County just decreased gatherings to 25 people on starting Friday, October 23. Crossing my fingers that my registration isn't canceled!


Just got the email... they're looking for volunteers to take a refund.


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## sol_ring

Could they have made this any more ambiguous? Do they need to get to 25 people or under? Can they open another room? If they do have to cancel exams, how will they decide? Will they give priority to lateral-only takers? Really didn't need this 2 days before the exam lol.


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## ChiefIlliniwek

Br_Engr said:


> Maybe if that becomes an issue, they can get a second room.


I emailed NCEES about this and just got a response. They were already planning on two rooms, and have opened up a third room. They're trying to get some people to cancel because they're a few people over the allowance. They're hoping to get a few people to cancel and said it's unlikely that they'll have to cancel registrations involuntarily.


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## Br_Engr

ChiefIlliniwek said:


> I emailed NCEES about this and just got a response. They were already planning on two rooms, and have opened up a third room. They're trying to get some people to cancel because they're a few people over the allowance. They're hoping to get a few people to cancel and said it's unlikely that they'll have to cancel registrations involuntarily.


GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE TAKING THE EXAM TODAY!!

(and tomorrow)


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## organix

A lot of people probably know already if you took vertical exam this morning, but the Illinois lateral exam will still go on as scheduled.


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