# Cost to practice Engineering survey



## Ky_Su (May 17, 2019)

Looking to see the costs to practice Engineering in various States.  I piggy back on an existing list of 50 States so you get a free geographical and civic lesson as well.  Fill out the information that you have in doc below.  Thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iWh7acsVzMQ3VevSo7XzdZQ3VQ5M190Zl_9OkiXj9Nk/edit?usp=sharing


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## RBHeadge PE (May 18, 2019)

Maryland added


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## Purple PE (May 18, 2019)

Arkansas Updated


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## Ky_Su (May 21, 2019)

@ ND engineers... Wow... what does your Board do with all the money it collects?  

@ Grady Hillhouse...   Really!? TX makes you renew the license every year?   I hope at least they accept electronic payments.


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## ruggercsc (May 21, 2019)

Tennessee and Kentucky added.  I included a note for the $400 annual privilege tax which is being eliminated in 2020.  I just paid mine for 2019.

Note:  When did the Capital of Tennessee move to Memphis?  I was not aware of this.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (May 22, 2019)

Louisiana added


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## engineer_cat (May 22, 2019)

Added Oregon and California.


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## Ky_Su (May 22, 2019)

Whoever made the map, thanks!  That's pretty neat.  I learned something new today.


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## EngrPaper (May 24, 2019)

Alabama added.


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## LyceeFruit PE (May 24, 2019)

I corrected the spelling on Montpelier, VT.

I know the cost is 100$ for renewal but I'm not 100% if it's a 2 year cycle or not since I haven't passed and few in my company are licensed in VT (yay consulting). I'm 95% sure it's a 2 year cycle.


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## ME_VT_PE (May 24, 2019)

LyceeFruit said:


> I corrected the spelling on Montpelier, VT.
> 
> I know the cost is 100$ for renewal but I'm not 100% if it's a 2 year cycle or not since I haven't passed and few in my company are licensed in VT (yay consulting). I'm 95% sure it's a 2 year cycle.


Its a 2 year cycle.

sincerely,

your favorite EB'er


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## Ky_Su (May 29, 2019)

Booo!  someone vandalized the doc on Saturday 5/25 @ 10AM  (either that or someone just really sucked in excel!).  Good thing I was able to restore it to a previously working version.


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## DKS (May 31, 2019)

Just for fun, I added Alberta Canada to the list for anyone interested in what happens up North...


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## Ky_Su (Jun 13, 2019)

Why is the cost so expensive in Canada?  Does it also include an "association" fee similar to NSPE? (i.e.  you get more benefits than just to financially support the regulators)


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## fyrfytr310 (Jun 13, 2019)

Added California app fee in the notes.



ruggercsc said:


> Tennessee and Kentucky added.  I included a note for the $400 annual privilege tax which is being eliminated in 2020.  I just paid mine for 2019.


Alright.  You got me.  What is the 'privilege tax?'


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## ruggercsc (Jun 13, 2019)

See below post.  Good news is that is being eliminated in 2020.


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## ruggercsc (Jun 13, 2019)

fyrfytr310 said:


> Added California app fee in the notes.
> 
> Alright.  You got me.  What is the 'privilege tax?'


The Privilege Tax is a fee of $400 that was required to practice in any of the below occupations that required a license. You paid this annual in addition to the biannual $140 renewal fee.  The State required this awhile back to balance the budget.  The good news is 2019 is the last year PE' s are required to pay the fee.

*Professional Privilege Tax*

Overview

Professional privilege tax is due June 1 each year for individuals licensed or registered to practice in Tennessee any one of the professions listed in Tenn. Code Ann. §67-4-1702.  Fifteen professions have been removed from the tax beginning June 1, 2020. 

The following professions are required to pay the tax due on June 1, 2019.  If you are registered or licensed to practice in more than one of the following professions, you are only required to pay the $400 tax once per year. 

Accountant

Lobbyis

Agent (Securities)

Optometrist

Architect

Osteopathic

Physician

Attorney

Pharmacist

Audiologist

Physician

Broker-Dealer

Podiatrist

Chiropractor

Psychologist

Dentist

Real Estate Principal Broker

Engineer

Speech Pathologist

Investment

Adviser

Sports Agent

Landscape Architect

Veterinarian

The following professions are required to pay the tax due on June 1, 2020 and thereafter.

Attorney

Agent (Securities)

Broker-Dealer

Investment Adviser

Lobbyist

Osteopathic Physician

Physician


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## fyrfytr310 (Jun 13, 2019)

So it cost $540/yr to practice in TN.....  Wow....


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## ruggercsc (Jun 13, 2019)

This is for TN and yes, this year it cost me $540.  Alternate years were $400.


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## DKS (Jun 14, 2019)

Ky_Su said:


> Why is the cost so expensive in Canada?  Does it also include an "association" fee similar to NSPE? (i.e.  you get more benefits than just to financially support the regulators)


Note that the membership dues in Alberta are not unusual for Canada.  See figure below (costs are in Canadian dollars and do not include taxes) for November 2017 (taken from https://www.apega.ca/assets/graphics/member-dues-canada-eng-geo.png)






The fees go directly to the regulators, with no other association fees included.  (Note that the provincial/territorial member associations are members of Engineers Canada, which is similar in some senses to NSPE but only the regulators are members of Engineers Canada, not individuals.)

We do get some member benefits (https://www.apega.ca/members/benefits/), but I don't think these explain the cost, given how APEGA describes their mandate.  To wit, [t]he Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Alberta (APEGA) regulates the practices of engineering and geoscience in Alberta on behalf of the Government of Alberta through the Engineering and Geoscience Professions Act.  Our main regulatory function is licensing individuals and companies that want to practise engineering and geoscience in Alberta.

I am speculating that part of the reason that member dues are so high in Canada is because the professional associations can charge these prices.  In Canada there is no industrial exemption (with the exception of Ontario), so anyone practicing engineering is required to become licensed.

Hope that was informative.


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## CoquiPR (Jun 17, 2019)

Puerto Rico added.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Jun 18, 2019)

DKS said:


> ... * In Canada there is no industrial exemption* (with the exception of Ontario), so anyone practicing engineering is required to become licensed. ...


So that means every engineer working in every industry has to become licensed?
Does that mean every engineering drawing released has to be stamped?
What are the implications for liability? My understanding of the industrial exemption is, the engineer doesn't need to be licensed because they aren't accepting the responsibility/liability for the design. Their company is absorbing all liability. For example Boeing could be sued for a hypothetical faulty design, but not the individual engineers responsible for that hypothetical faulty design. (I'm not trying to pick on Boeing. I know the root causes of and the responsibility for the crashes are still TBD. It's just the first example that came to mind.)


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## DKS (Jun 18, 2019)

jean15paul said:


> So that means every engineer w﻿orking in every industry has to﻿ become licens﻿ed﻿?


Essentially yes.  For example in Alberta (From Part 1 of the ENGINEERING AND GEOSCIENCE PROFESSIONS ACT):

2(1) Except as otherwise provided in this Act, no individual, corporation, partnership or other entity, except a professional engineer, a licensee so authorized in the licensee’s licence, a permit holder so authorized in its permit or a certificate holder so authorized in the certificate holder’s certificate, shall engage in the practice of engineering,

where:

(q) “practice of engineering” means
 (i) reporting on, advising on, evaluating, designing, preparing plans and specifications for or directing the construction, technical inspection, maintenance or operation of any structure, work or process
 (A) that is aimed at the discovery, development or utilization of matter, materials or energy or in any other way designed for the use and convenience of humans, and
 (B) that requires in that reporting, advising, evaluating, designing, preparation or direction the professional application of the principles of mathematics, chemistry, physics or any related applied subject, or
 (ii) teaching engineering at a university;

The exceptions are:

(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following:

(a) a person engaged in the execution or supervision of the construction, maintenance, operation or inspection of any process, system, work, structure or building in the capacity of contractor, superintendent, foreman or inspector or in any similar capacity, when the process, system, work, structure or building has been designed by and the execution or supervision is being carried out under the supervision and control of a professional engineer or licensee;

(b) a person engaged in the practice of engineering as an engineer-in-training or engineering technologist in the course of being employed or engaged and supervised and controlled by a professional engineer, licensee, permit holder or certificate holder;

(c) repealed 2007 c13 s4;

(d) a person who in accordance with an Act or regulation in respect of mines, minerals, pipelines, boilers and pressure vessels, building codes or safety codes for buildings is engaged in any undertaking or activity required under or pursuant to that Act or the regulations under that Act;

(e) a person who, on the person’s own property and for the person’s sole use or the use of the person’s domestic establishment, carries out any work that does not involve the safety of the public;

(f) a member of the Canadian Forces while actually employed on duty with the Forces;

(g) a person engaged or employed by a university whose practice of the profession consists exclusively of teaching engineering at the university.



jean15paul said:


> Does that mean every engineering drawing released has to be stamped?


Yes.

From https://www.apega.ca/members/document-authentication/,

To know whether a document needs to be authenticated, can you answer yes to both of these questions?

1.  Does the document contain technical information as defined in the Engineering and Geoscience Professions Act?
2.  Is the document complete for its intended purpose?



jean15paul said:


> What are the implications for liability?


The Professional member who seals the document "is assuming full professional responsibility of that engineering or geoscience work."  (https://www.apega.ca/members/document-authentication/)


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Jun 21, 2019)

Wow. Very interesting. Thanks @DKS


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