# PE - HVAC October 2010



## peprepoct2010

Anybody taking the PE in October 2010? I am about to start my preparation and looking for people who are on the same page to discuss schedule, material etc.


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## Relvinim

peprepoct2010 said:


> Anybody taking the PE in October 2010? I am about to start my preparation and looking for people who are on the same page to discuss schedule, material etc.


I will be taking the PE in October and started studying the MERM back in January. I am almost thru reading the entire book and will go back and reread some of the areas I had trouble with. Starting in August I hope to do nothing but practice problems. Some days I feel like I can do it and then other days not so much. There is a tremendous amount of data to cover. If I don't pass the first time around I am hoping that I will at least have a better feel of what to expect.


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## peprepoct2010

Relvinim said:


> peprepoct2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody taking the PE in October 2010? I am about to start my preparation and looking for people who are on the same page to discuss schedule, material etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I will be taking the PE in October and started studying the MERM back in January. I am almost thru reading the entire book and will go back and reread some of the areas I had trouble with. Starting in August I hope to do nothing but practice problems. Some days I feel like I can do it and then other days not so much. There is a tremendous amount of data to cover. If I don't pass the first time around I am hoping that I will at least have a better feel of what to expect.
Click to expand...

How may days/hours did you spend reading the MERM? Does that include solving the problems too?

I did not start yet, but I want to get an idea of how much time I should spend on it. I definitely don't have 6 months to the exam.


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## Relvinim

peprepoct2010 said:


> Relvinim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peprepoct2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody taking the PE in October 2010? I am about to start my preparation and looking for people who are on the same page to discuss schedule, material etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I will be taking the PE in October and started studying the MERM back in January. I am almost thru reading the entire book and will go back and reread some of the areas I had trouble with. Starting in August I hope to do nothing but practice problems. Some days I feel like I can do it and then other days not so much. There is a tremendous amount of data to cover. If I don't pass the first time around I am hoping that I will at least have a better feel of what to expect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How may days/hours did you spend reading the MERM? Does that include solving the problems too?
> 
> I did not start yet, but I want to get an idea of how much time I should spend on it. I definitely don't have 6 months to the exam.
Click to expand...

I didn't read the Math, Control Systems or Plant Systems. A coworker who took the test 2X said that wasn't on it but no guarantees of course. I didn't start doing the Example problems on my own until I got to Heat Transfer. I will go back and try all the problems on my own.

I've been studying about 5-7 hrs per week.


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## goodal

peprepoct2010 said:


> Relvinim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peprepoct2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody taking the PE in October 2010? I am about to start my preparation and looking for people who are on the same page to discuss schedule, material etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I will be taking the PE in October and started studying the MERM back in January. I am almost thru reading the entire book and will go back and reread some of the areas I had trouble with. Starting in August I hope to do nothing but practice problems. Some days I feel like I can do it and then other days not so much. There is a tremendous amount of data to cover. If I don't pass the first time around I am hoping that I will at least have a better feel of what to expect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How may days/hours did you spend reading the MERM? Does that include solving the problems too?
> 
> I did not start yet, but I want to get an idea of how much time I should spend on it. I definitely don't have 6 months to the exam.
Click to expand...

Unless you have a photographc memory or an IQ of 200 you need to start NOW!!! I studied for 6 months, 12-16 hrs a week and still felt unprepared (passed first try thank god). Dont put it off any longer or you may be kicking yourself in december.


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## Bman

You should definitely start studying now for the October exam, which gives you about 3 1/2 to 4 months to study. I studied for about 12 hours a week for the first 6 weeks and then about doubled that for the last 6-8 weeks that I studied; about 250 hours total. I second Badal's opinion that I still did not feel prepared going into the exam but thankfully passed the first try. There is a lot of material to be covered, references to review and tab, etc. Do it right the first time, and hopefully you won't have to do it again! Read through the past posts too, I found a lot of helpful information in them, and of course ask questions if you have any, we're here to help.


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## HerrKaLeun

I kind of started studying today by buying 2 calculators (Casio 115ES) and printing out the ASHRAE books from the PDF (have the book at work, but that paper is too thin to put tabs on etc.). I'll have them in 3-ring binders and assume that is NCEES conform (I'm in WI).

Next week I'll order the PPI material. the MERM and plenty of the sample tests including the one from the NCEES. I also hope to convince my workplace to buy the ASHRAE HVAC design manual since some recommended the Trane one for the test (but that is from 1996). I also still have the EIT Reference manual. not sure if that will be any help or will just be a paperweight.

I now start reading through the ASHRAE books and somehow mark up where the important things are. I'm not quite sure if all 4 books are necessary. the applications one doesn't seem to be needed. the Fundamentals, Refrigeration, and Systems one sure look like they are needed for the test.

I think I'll take a thermodynamics book to the test to have steam tables. Do you guys think more material is needed? I mean in tables, charts etc. I assume odd values will be provided in the question.

I think knowing the reference material where to find things and being proficient with the calculator is half the test.

I have a graduate degree in ME (energy systems) but that didn't include the elementary ME things as they appear in the test, I did everything in SI and with PC (EES etc.). My undergraduate degree is environmental engineering. At work i do a lot of stuff with the PC (BIM&lt; TRACE etc.). so work experience is good, but won't help much for the test. So I'm a bit challenged doing it in IP and doing it the old-school BC (before computer) way. I know I should have started sooner, but I was in graduate school till May and didn't have the nerve to think of PE too much.

Any comment on study material, or reference material for the test is welcome. I don't think I'll take sample tests with me, that never helps and jsut clutters up my desk.

Actually I won't know before the 8/25 board meeting of the department of licensing if I can take the test. I'm just studying hoping I can. (I have a German undergraduate degree, long story, and WI doesn't acknowledge a WI graduate degree as equal..). but starting in September is too late.


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## Bman

HerrKaleun,

I think I used all 4 ASHRAE books during the exam. I didn't really study them, but had them handy during my studying and just tabbed things that looked useful along the way. I also printed out just the index so I wouldn't have to flip through the books during the exam (I also printed the MERM index which was extremely helpful). Read through some of the past message threads (or do a search) and I think you'll find a lot of helpful information about what books people found most useful (for studying and during the exam), what study materials are most helpful, etc. This is what I did and it helped me to form a good strategy for passing the exam. Good Luck!


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## Paul S

HerrKaLeun said:


> Actually I won't know before the 8/25 board meeting of the department of licensing if I can take the test. I'm just studying hoping I can. (I have a German undergraduate degree, long story, and WI doesn't acknowledge a WI graduate degree as equal..). but starting in September is too late.


I was wondering if you got approved. I hope you do get approved and good luck!


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## HerrKaLeun

Paul S said:


> I was wondering if you got approved. I hope you do get approved and good luck!


You are referring to my other thread

the department website shows I have all documents in and board will decide 8/25. but from a co-worker who didn't meet the experience requirements at that time, it looks the same (except for his said he was denied, but all documents are labeled in green as in complete).

I recently paid another $ 400 for an NCEES evaluation and waiting for all the documents to come to them. I hope they get it done before 8/25. when I sent in my application to the department, I included that old evaluation from 3 years ago and the email where they told me to get that. I also included my UW-Madison transcripts from grad school. Maybe that will help, or not. So I'm doing an (expensive) double strategy of both submitting my existing documents, and getting (another) evaluation hoping at least one will suffice on 8/25.

So, no not approved yet and won't know before September (it says they will let me know a week after the meeting). I still can appeal then, and will if they deny me. the bad thing then is, I still have to study full steam till September or even October without knowing f I can write the test.

If nothing else, I learn a lot about HVAC while doing this


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## HerrKaLeun

I didn't mean to go off-topic... just answered a question...

I'm ordering the following books:

- Mechanical Engineering Reference Manual for the PE Exam

- NCEES PE Mechanical Engineering Sample Questions and Solutions

- Six-Minute Solutions for Mechanical PE Exam HVAC and Refrigeration Problems

- Engineering Unit Conversions

Is there any benefit in ordering these?:

- 101 Solved Mechanical Engineering Problems (it says it has complex problems... this is fine, but is it beneficial for the test???)

- Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam (this according to amazon reviewers is the solution manual for the MERM, but it looks like the actual questions are in MERM already, so I'm not sure if I need it)

Both have free shipping on amazon, so I'm not really losing when i order them separately later. the "101 problem book" also seems to be available used.

(i checked all other books, used they often are more expensive than new...)

In addition I use:

- all 4 ASHRAE books (have at work already)

- ASHRAE AC design manual (as opposed to the Trane one recommended, but the Trane one seemed to be from 1996)

Is anything needed or recommended? I don't want to get overwhelmed. I'm not taking sample exams to the test, only the actual reference books (MERM, ASHRAE).

Should I look into the EIT training manual at all? Will there be anything from the FE exam (i.e. derivations, etc.)

Edit:

what about this "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" I'm kind of getting the feeling many of the sample tests are not realistic based on the amazon reviews. Some are too SI-heavy, some way too difficult. any advice on which are the good sample exams besides the ones I already buy?


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## Emonster

Hey Everyone,

I am starting to study by reading the chapters of MERM and working the practice problems after. I am pretty much following the exam review course format in the MERM intro.

Am I on the right track?

How are you guys going about it? Or how have you that passed studied for the exam?


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## HerrKaLeun

Emonster said:


> Hey Everyone,I am starting to study by reading the chapters of MERM and working the practice problems after. I am pretty much following the exam review course format in the MERM intro.
> 
> Am I on the right track?
> 
> How are you guys going about it? Or how have you that passed studied for the exam?



my order of books (s. above) shipped to day. While waiting I'm reading through the ASHRAE books to be more familiar where is what. I also try to re-calculate the examples in ASHRAE fundamentals (just for fun, and to be more fluent with IP units). I think once I glanced at the MERM and the sample exams I'll have a better idea what to focus on.


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## mechgirl

HerrKaLeun said:


> I didn't mean to go off-topic... just answered a question...
> I'm ordering the following books:
> 
> - Mechanical Engineering Reference Manual for the PE Exam
> 
> - NCEES PE Mechanical Engineering Sample Questions and Solutions
> 
> - Six-Minute Solutions for Mechanical PE Exam HVAC and Refrigeration Problems
> 
> - Engineering Unit Conversions
> 
> Is there any benefit in ordering these?:
> 
> - 101 Solved Mechanical Engineering Problems (it says it has complex problems... this is fine, but is it beneficial for the test???)
> 
> - Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam (this according to amazon reviewers is the solution manual for the MERM, but it looks like the actual questions are in MERM already, so I'm not sure if I need it)
> 
> Both have free shipping on amazon, so I'm not really losing when i order them separately later. the "101 problem book" also seems to be available used.
> 
> (i checked all other books, used they often are more expensive than new...)
> 
> In addition I use:
> 
> - all 4 ASHRAE books (have at work already)
> 
> - ASHRAE AC design manual (as opposed to the Trane one recommended, but the Trane one seemed to be from 1996)
> 
> Is anything needed or recommended? I don't want to get overwhelmed. I'm not taking sample exams to the test, only the actual reference books (MERM, ASHRAE).
> 
> Should I look into the EIT training manual at all? Will there be anything from the FE exam (i.e. derivations, etc.)
> 
> Edit:
> 
> what about this "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" I'm kind of getting the feeling many of the sample tests are not realistic based on the amazon reviews. Some are too SI-heavy, some way too difficult. any advice on which are the good sample exams besides the ones I already buy?



I don't think you need the conversions book, as the common ones are on the inside cover of the MERM, and the rest are in the first appendix, and if you get the Casio 115fx (I think that was the #), it has built in conversions, which yes, I did use on the test.

My office had the 101 problems and solutions book in the office library, so I borrowed it and thought it was HORRIBLE. I started working the HVAC section, and thought the problems were extremely difficult and figured there was no way these could be answered in 6 min or be on the test, so I did not use this book. I think it's geared more towards the old essay style exam.

The MERM practice problems would be good. The questions were mostly longer than they could have on the test, but they are helpful and give more exposure. The MERM book has some (few) example problems and solutions in the book, but the questions and solutions are all in the practice book. Not question in MERM and answer in the practice problem book.

I don't think you want to use and EIT/FE books.

MY METHOD:

I started studying in February for the April exam, and I passed, the first time taking it, HVAC depth.

I first went through the entire MERM, about from chapter 15-58, then went through the practice problems (same chapters). This took about a month. I think I was trying for two chapters a day, but sometimes did more, and sometimes only like half a chapter.

I used the Lindeberg practice test as practice problems and worked through the morning and all the depths.

I used the NCEES practice test and worked through all the depths except my depth (HVAC).

About a 3 weeks out, I took a timed test (just like the real deal) using the NCEES sample test and my depth, the next day worked through the solutions of those I'd done wrong.

After I took the test, I got worried by my low score, and order the Six Min Solutions HVAC book, which I worked through probably 5 times before the test.

Reworked Lindeberg sample exam all depths about 2 more times, reworked the NCEES other depths a couple more times. Reworked many of the Practice Problems book questions, just picked those I thought I needed, but skipped many of the "one hour" problems.

Did the timed practice NCEES test again one week before the test.

Kept studying the last week, even the day before the test.

On the day of the test, I took the above mentioned books plus all the ASHRAE handbooks, the IMC, a binder with about 2 equations sheets, mostly fluids. I didn't take and didn't need a dictionary. I did use all 4 ASHRAE handbooks, and I'd recommend taking them. I don't think I used the IMC.

Also, I'm going to advertise that I have some books for sale posted on the yard sale board.


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## Bman

Mechgirl is pretty much spot on. I did use the Unit Conversions book and found it very helpful. I didn't know there were unit conversions in the Casio which I used, but I liked the convenience of the book and its set up so all you have to do is multiply by some factor to change units vs. trying to figure out if you have to multiply or divide... I spent the last few weeks before the exam really focusing on the NCEES exam and the 6 Minute Solutions; went through each about 3 or 4 times. I thought the test was harder than either of those personally, but they helped to build a good foundation so I wasn't that lost when I saw more difficult problems on the actual exam.


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## MechGuy

Listen to Mechgirl. She knows what she is talking about.


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## dneva

mechgirl said:


> HerrKaLeun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't mean to go off-topic... just answered a question...
> I'm ordering the following books:
> 
> - Mechanical Engineering Reference Manual for the PE Exam
> 
> - NCEES PE Mechanical Engineering Sample Questions and Solutions
> 
> - Six-Minute Solutions for Mechanical PE Exam HVAC and Refrigeration Problems
> 
> - Engineering Unit Conversions
> 
> Is there any benefit in ordering these?:
> 
> - 101 Solved Mechanical Engineering Problems (it says it has complex problems... this is fine, but is it beneficial for the test???)
> 
> - Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam (this according to amazon reviewers is the solution manual for the MERM, but it looks like the actual questions are in MERM already, so I'm not sure if I need it)
> 
> Both have free shipping on amazon, so I'm not really losing when i order them separately later. the "101 problem book" also seems to be available used.
> 
> (i checked all other books, used they often are more expensive than new...)
> 
> In addition I use:
> 
> - all 4 ASHRAE books (have at work already)
> 
> - ASHRAE AC design manual (as opposed to the Trane one recommended, but the Trane one seemed to be from 1996)
> 
> Is anything needed or recommended? I don't want to get overwhelmed. I'm not taking sample exams to the test, only the actual reference books (MERM, ASHRAE).
> 
> Should I look into the EIT training manual at all? Will there be anything from the FE exam (i.e. derivations, etc.)
> 
> Edit:
> 
> what about this "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" I'm kind of getting the feeling many of the sample tests are not realistic based on the amazon reviews. Some are too SI-heavy, some way too difficult. any advice on which are the good sample exams besides the ones I already buy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you need the conversions book, as the common ones are on the inside cover of the MERM, and the rest are in the first appendix, and if you get the Casio 115fx (I think that was the #), it has built in conversions, which yes, I did use on the test.
> 
> My office had the 101 problems and solutions book in the office library, so I borrowed it and thought it was HORRIBLE. I started working the HVAC section, and thought the problems were extremely difficult and figured there was no way these could be answered in 6 min or be on the test, so I did not use this book. I think it's geared more towards the old essay style exam.
> 
> The MERM practice problems would be good. The questions were mostly longer than they could have on the test, but they are helpful and give more exposure. The MERM book has some (few) example problems and solutions in the book, but the questions and solutions are all in the practice book. Not question in MERM and answer in the practice problem book.
> 
> I don't think you want to use and EIT/FE books.
> 
> MY METHOD:
> 
> I started studying in February for the April exam, and I passed, the first time taking it, HVAC depth.
> 
> I first went through the entire MERM, about from chapter 15-58, then went through the practice problems (same chapters). This took about a month. I think I was trying for two chapters a day, but sometimes did more, and sometimes only like half a chapter.
> 
> I used the Lindeberg practice test as practice problems and worked through the morning and all the depths.
> 
> I used the NCEES practice test and worked through all the depths except my depth (HVAC).
> 
> About a 3 weeks out, I took a timed test (just like the real deal) using the NCEES sample test and my depth, the next day worked through the solutions of those I'd done wrong.
> 
> After I took the test, I got worried by my low score, and order the Six Min Solutions HVAC book, which I worked through probably 5 times before the test.
> 
> Reworked Lindeberg sample exam all depths about 2 more times, reworked the NCEES other depths a couple more times. Reworked many of the Practice Problems book questions, just picked those I thought I needed, but skipped many of the "one hour" problems.
> 
> Did the timed practice NCEES test again one week before the test.
> 
> Kept studying the last week, even the day before the test.
> 
> On the day of the test, I took the above mentioned books plus all the ASHRAE handbooks, the IMC, a binder with about 2 equations sheets, mostly fluids. I didn't take and didn't need a dictionary. I did use all 4 ASHRAE handbooks, and I'd recommend taking them. I don't think I used the IMC.
> 
> Also, I'm going to advertise that I have some books for sale posted on the yard sale board.
Click to expand...

Mechgirl,

Can you please provide the editions and names of the 4 ASHRAE handbooks

Your help is appreciated.


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## MechGuy

dneva said:


> Mechgirl,
> Can you please provide the editions and names of the 4 ASHRAE handbooks
> 
> Your help is appreciated.


I'm not Mechgirl but only a few letters off.

The 4 ASHRAE books are Fundamentals, Applications, Refrigeration and Systems &amp; Equipment. I used the 1997-2000 editions (one of the four books is updated every year). You can buy the newer editions but they cost a lot more than older used editions, and the information is 90-95% the same from 10-15 years ago. It's enough to get you through the PE exam, but if you want the new ones for reference they're a good investment if you're an HVAC designer.


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## HerrKaLeun

Bman said:


> Mechgirl is pretty much spot on. I did use the Unit Conversions book and found it very helpful. I didn't know there were unit conversions in the Casio which I used, but I liked the convenience of the book and its set up so all you have to do is multiply by some factor to change units vs. trying to figure out if you have to multiply or divide... I spent the last few weeks before the exam really focusing on the NCEES exam and the 6 Minute Solutions; went through each about 3 or 4 times. I thought the test was harder than either of those personally, but they helped to build a good foundation so I wasn't that lost when I saw more difficult problems on the actual exam.


thanks Mechgirl too. I won't get the "101" book then.

about unit conversions: it might be weird to use the Casio conversion and I rather see what I'm doing. that unit conversion book has man many odd units that likely are not in normal books. Not that anyone needs them, but in a test you never know. It probably is a waste of money, but I have piece of mind.

I once had to take an entrance test for an engineering assistant position. That test likely was geared towards surveyors. anyway, I just had moved to the US and the test was pretty easy to do the calculations - except it had all oddball units. "links" etc. I never had heard of. So I never had a chance. Old Trauma... at that time I wasn't even fluent with how many ounces are in a pound etc. At work I do everything with some software, so the units don't really matter, grad school was in SI. The IP system uses every single conversion factor, except the number "10"


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## mechgirl

I used the most recent ASHRAE handbooks (mechguy listed the titles). If you're an ASHRAE member, they send you a new handbook every year. My company pays for two pro organization memberships per year, so I've always maintained my ASHRAE membership (but I think I've only attended 2 meetings). http://www.ashrae.org/publications/page/158 . If you're buying them new, make sure you get the IP edition for English units. Maybe you could borrow some from your office library? If you work as a consultant in the USA , you should have a copy of these.

I did use all four handbooks. Before the test, I tabbed topics and tables that I thought I would need.


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## MechEngineer

Mechgirl,

Which afternoon depth did you take? I am taking thermal / fluids and wondering do I need all the 4 ASHRAE books you have mentioned?

Thanks.



mechgirl said:


> I used the most recent ASHRAE handbooks (mechguy listed the titles). If you're an ASHRAE member, they send you a new handbook every year. My company pays for two pro organization memberships per year, so I've always maintained my ASHRAE membership (but I think I've only attended 2 meetings). http://www.ashrae.org/publications/page/158 . If you're buying them new, make sure you get the IP edition for English units. Maybe you could borrow some from your office library? If you work as a consultant in the USA , you should have a copy of these.
> I did use all four handbooks. Before the test, I tabbed topics and tables that I thought I would need.


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## HerrKaLeun

MechEngineer said:


> Mechgirl,
> Which afternoon depth did you take? I am taking thermal / fluids and wondering do I need all the 4 ASHRAE books you have mentioned?
> 
> Thanks.


I'd think the fundamentals, Equipment and Refrigeration one can be of use to anyone in the morning. The "Application" one might only be useful for HVAC in the afternoon. But if you have them, just take all four.

I think as a student member the books are $ 49 each (as student member you don't get the annual free one). If you work in the industry at all, you should have them anyway.. if you company is too stinchy to buy those books for your work, I'm concerned  those ASHRAE books are HVAC bibles...

if you work mainly in fluids, there might be more fluid specific books in addition.

At work everyone else is Civil &amp; transportation engineer. so they weren't much help... but they said many of the questions they could just look up from a table in their standard "bibles". So knowing those books is really helpful.


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## dneva

MechGuy said:


> dneva said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mechgirl,
> Can you please provide the editions and names of the 4 ASHRAE handbooks
> 
> Your help is appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not Mechgirl but only a few letters off.
> 
> The 4 ASHRAE books are Fundamentals, Applications, Refrigeration and Systems &amp; Equipment. I used the 1997-2000 editions (one of the four books is updated every year). You can buy the newer editions but they cost a lot more than older used editions, and the information is 90-95% the same from 10-15 years ago. It's enough to get you through the PE exam, but if you want the new ones for reference they're a good investment if you're an HVAC designer.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mechguy and Mechgirl.


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## HerrKaLeun

Yesterday I received the MERM, "Engineering unit conversion" and "six minute solution HVAC". UPS is supposed to deliver the "NCEES sample exam" tomorrow.

So far I'm doing this:

- reading all MERM chapters (and later all ASHRAE books) and make a table with where is all stuff (i.e. pumps in MERM chapter 18, ASHRAE.. etc.). I assume if I print it and put it in a 3-ring binder it will be allowed. That way I get an overview over what there is and a refresher. I'm already at chapter 27 in MERM. Almost everything I already knew at some point. I haven't done any of the MERM examples (but will eventually in the second run).

- Six minute solutions: it only seems to have HVAC breadth and depths questions. I glanced at them and almost all looked like I have an idea how to solve them once I quickly know my references. It recommends the following references: all 4 ASHRAE books, ASHRAE standard 15, 34, 55, 62, 84, 90.1, and 2006 uniform Mechanical Code. I have or can justify buying this through work.

- It also recommends: CTI standard 201-2004 for Certification of Water Cooling tower thermal performance, Crane Technical Paper "flow of fluids through valves, fittings and pipes" the "Hydraulic Institute: engineering Data book" and ANSI standard "Gas Water Heaters"and ANSI "Gas Central furnaces". *Are these really needed or useful in addition to the material above? *

- MERM recommends many references on page "XXVI": Mollier charts, different psychometric charts for different altitudes and temperatures, machinery's handbook etc.... *are any of those needed or are the MERM charts and charts int eh ASHRAE books and tables enough? Especially related to the Machine Design and TF parts of the am section. * it seems like overkill to me to get all that. Especially considering buying all this will be expensive and i don't think I'll be proficient with all these books.

- All my references so far are HVAC heavy. *Do I need machine design and fluid specific references for the am section? and if yes, which? *

- Sample Exams: I think I'm convinced the "101 solutions" is not worth the money and time to prepare for the test. How good are "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" and "Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam"? The latter one got good reviews on Amazon and i think I'll buy it. The "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" reviews say it is much harder than the test.* so I'm not sure if it will be really helpful???*

- *which of the MERM chapters will NOT be part of the exam?*


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## mechgirl

HerrKaLeun said:


> Yesterday I received the MERM, "Engineering unit conversion" and "six minute solution HVAC". UPS is supposed to deliver the "NCEES sample exam" tomorrow. So far I'm doing this:
> 
> - reading all MERM chapters (and later all ASHRAE books) and make a table with where is all stuff (i.e. pumps in MERM chapter 18, ASHRAE.. etc.). I assume if I print it and put it in a 3-ring binder it will be allowed. That way I get an overview over what there is and a refresher. I'm already at chapter 27 in MERM. Almost everything I already knew at some point. I haven't done any of the MERM examples (but will eventually in the second run).
> 
> - Six minute solutions: it only seems to have HVAC breadth and depths questions. I glanced at them and almost all looked like I have an idea how to solve them once I quickly know my references. It recommends the following references: all 4 ASHRAE books, ASHRAE standard 15, 34, 55, 62, 84, 90.1, and 2006 uniform Mechanical Code. I have or can justify buying this through work.
> 
> - It also recommends: CTI standard 201-2004 for Certification of Water Cooling tower thermal performance, Crane Technical Paper "flow of fluids through valves, fittings and pipes" the "Hydraulic Institute: engineering Data book" and ANSI standard "Gas Water Heaters"and ANSI "Gas Central furnaces". *Are these really needed or useful in addition to the material above? *
> 
> - MERM recommends many references on page "XXVI": Mollier charts, different psychometric charts for different altitudes and temperatures, machinery's handbook etc.... *are any of those needed or are the MERM charts and charts int eh ASHRAE books and tables enough? Especially related to the Machine Design and TF parts of the am section. * it seems like overkill to me to get all that. Especially considering buying all this will be expensive and i don't think I'll be proficient with all these books.
> 
> - All my references so far are HVAC heavy. *Do I need machine design and fluid specific references for the am section? and if yes, which? *
> 
> - Sample Exams: I think I'm convinced the "101 solutions" is not worth the money and time to prepare for the test. How good are "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" and "Practice Problems for the Mechanical Engineering PE Exam"? The latter one got good reviews on Amazon and i think I'll buy it. The "Mechanical PE Sample Examination" reviews say it is much harder than the test.* so I'm not sure if it will be really helpful???*
> 
> - *which of the MERM chapters will NOT be part of the exam?*



There are Six Min Solution (SMS) books for HVAC, Thermal &amp; Fluids, and Machine Design. My depth was HVAC, so I only purchased the HVAC SMS. Yes, I thought the price was ridiculous, but had heard folks say that they were most representative of the exam, and I knew that the more practice problems, the better. I'm glad I did. I remember that these solutions were more helpful than most. I felt very comfortable with Thermal &amp; Fluids, so I didn't think I needed to purchase that SMS. I had seen some posts that folks had found errors in the Machine Design SMS, so I didn't get that one. Machine Design was my weakest subject, so I did extra review, but I still felt I underestimated that subject while I was in the exam. You're the best judge of what you need to focus on. The more practice problems you can get, the better off you'll be.

The MERM has tables for friction loss equiv length through fittings, friction factors, Mollier diagrams, psych charts, pretty much everything you'll need. Get familiar with the appendices. I don't think you need Cranes, or any of those other references. I forgot that I did make a couple copies from ASHRAE standard 62, and put them in my binder for the exam. I also took my IMC (International Mech Code). I don't remember using either of these on the exam. If you have these reference available at your office, perhaps you can just be familiar with where things are located, then borrow them for the exam? I wouldn't purchase them for the exam.

I didn't take any other text books to the exam, and I didn't use any thermal/fluids or machine design references except the MERM, Lindeberg practice problems, Lindeberg sample exam, and NCEES sample exam.

I would get the Lindeberg practice problems and sample exam. I think the Lindberg sample exam is too difficult to finish in 8 hours (at least for me). The problems are a bit too long. But I think it's a very helpful study tool to use for practice problems. I worked all the depths to practice for the morning section. With all my books, and working them multiple times, I still felt like I didn't have enough practice problems. So I would definitely recommend the Lindeberg sample exam and practice problems.

The ASHRAE handbooks have some example problems in them that you can work. I would be familiar with the books, and use them for reference when working your practice problems, but reading these books is a huge undertaking. There's a lot in them.


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## HerrKaLeun

thanks, Mechgirl. I ordered both of the books today.

My strategy is to get an overall overview of all references (browsing through, not literally reading every word since most is already kind of familiar).

then I'll make a table with what is where and what is redundant (some MERM things are in ASHRAE in almost same form or depth) then do the MERM (and maybe ASHRAE) examples. Then I do the more difficult "PE Practice Problems". Once that is done I'll time myself on the more realistic tests (NCEES etc.). No point in timing myself on tests that are more difficult.

On the machine design I'll just use the MERM. It is 20% in the am session, so it is 10% overall. With some luck I can solve some, and maybe be lucky in guessing the rest. I'd rather put all my eggs into the HVAC basket (along with fluids), which I'm better at to begin with. If I get half of the machine stuff wrong, I only lose 5% overall.

Besides ASHRAE books I'll take the ASHRAE standards with me, MERM, IMC and then almost nothing else. I know some people bring baskets full of books. But this seems putting too much focus on the wrong things - unless you really are fluent with those books.

Thanks, really good advice. now it seems very logical. At first before seeing any sample tests and the MERM I was much more worried.


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## mechgirl

HerrKaLeun said:


> thanks, Mechgirl. I ordered both of the books today. My strategy is to get an overall overview of all references (browsing through, not literally reading every word since most is already kind of familiar).
> 
> then I'll make a table with what is where and what is redundant (some MERM things are in ASHRAE in almost same form or depth) then do the MERM (and maybe ASHRAE) examples. Then I do the more difficult "PE Practice Problems". Once that is done I'll time myself on the more realistic tests (NCEES etc.). No point in timing myself on tests that are more difficult.
> 
> On the machine design I'll just use the MERM. It is 20% in the am session, so it is 10% overall. With some luck I can solve some, and maybe be lucky in guessing the rest. I'd rather put all my eggs into the HVAC basket (along with fluids), which I'm better at to begin with. If I get half of the machine stuff wrong, I only lose 5% overall.
> 
> Besides ASHRAE books I'll take the ASHRAE standards with me, MERM, IMC and then almost nothing else. I know some people bring baskets full of books. But this seems putting too much focus on the wrong things - unless you really are fluent with those books.
> 
> Thanks, really good advice. now it seems very logical. At first before seeing any sample tests and the MERM I was much more worried.


But you were supposed to buy my books that I'm selling!  Either way, I think you'll be glad you have them.

Another helpful resource: search this message board for the yahoo ME PE study group. I remember someone posted info on joining the group. If you join the group, they have a file library posted online with a lot of resources. They had some codes/standards, and also had Mark's Machinary Handbook (non-printable version), and more that I don't recall.


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## HerrKaLeun

My current strategy is to solve the 500 "Practice Problems". for that I do each question on my own and then compare to the solution. I also look at the solution when I don't know how to do it. that way I learn well. I try to do that every night and almost all weekends.

I just wonder, which chapters won't be necessary for the HVAC exam? I think chapter 19 (Fluid Power) would not be in HVAC. I also think the Algebra chapters won't be necessary. *Any ideas on which MERM chapters one could skip for HVAC am and pm? *

Once I'm done (hopefully by end of September) I'll do the 6-minute solutions, the PPI sample exam, and the NCEES sample exam and time myself.

I'm also making cheat sheets that have the most common equations, conversions and rule-of-thumb calculations. that also contains where for each topic I find more information (Like on which MERM page, which ASHRAE etc.).

Edit: I also read a lot here the recommendation to buy the 6-minute solution of the other 2 sections (Machine design / T/F) in order to be better prepared for the am section. Is that any useful after doing all the sample problems? I already have the feeling some of the sample problems go beyond what I need for am and HVAC pm. I guess if i have time left, I could consider it. but it seems a waste of time and money. *Any recommendations based on experience?* (Obviously I know it always is better to study more than less and it wouldn't hurt - but I won't have that much time left and rather do something more useful to pass)


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## Bman

I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.

Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.


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## HerrKaLeun

Bman said:


> I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
> Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.


when i compare the '500" problems to the NCEES sample exam it seems to me the NCEES exam doesn't go into depth at all in certain areas as the "500"sample questions go. Was that your impression of the actual exam that it is closer to the NCEES sample exam in difficulty? At least I'd think many of the "500" problems are way too long to be on the exam.

I'm thinking if I can skip some of the long questions?

for example the one combustion question on the NCEES exam I could solve without any studying. the sample questions are kind of exhaustive (not really hard, but to be solved in multiple steps)

Edit: for the FE exam I also was under the impression many of the Lindeburg sample questions were way too exhaustive for the test.


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## navyasw02

Bman said:


> I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
> Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.


I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.


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## Bman

HerrKaLeun said:


> Bman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
> Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> when i compare the '500" problems to the NCEES sample exam it seems to me the NCEES exam doesn't go into depth at all in certain areas as the "500"sample questions go. Was that your impression of the actual exam that it is closer to the NCEES sample exam in difficulty? At least I'd think many of the "500" problems are way too long to be on the exam.
> 
> I'm thinking if I can skip some of the long questions?
> 
> for example the one combustion question on the NCEES exam I could solve without any studying. the sample questions are kind of exhaustive (not really hard, but to be solved in multiple steps)
> 
> Edit: for the FE exam I also was under the impression many of the Lindeburg sample questions were way too exhaustive for the test.
Click to expand...

I've posted in many different threads that I thought the actual exam was harder than the NCEES or the SMS problems. The questions asked were similar in nature, but the actual systems being analyzed were much more complicated on the actual exam. For example: When asked to find the C.O.P. for a refrigerations system, the NCEES Practice Exam would show you a simple system with the 4 main components (compressor, condenser, evaporator, expansion valve); easy enough. This same type of question might be asked on the actual exam, but expect there to be additional components beyond the 4 just discussed (this is as much detail as I am willing or allowed to go here...), so there is additional analysis that needs to be considered and I just didn't anticipate....

As far as some of the practice questions, the only ones I skipped were some of the 1 hour questions in the MERM practice problems book. If you have the time and energy, I would solve them (I didn't). The ones I did solve did not take an hour; they are basically several questions grouped together into a single problem...

I focused the final weeks of my studying on the NCEES and SMS books and worked through each them about 3 times til I could understand and solve all of the questions without a problem. This strategy seemed to work for me as I passed the exam my first time....


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## Bman

navyasw02 said:


> Bman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
> Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.
Click to expand...

I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.


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## navyasw02

Bman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you should skip any chapters in the MERM aside from the first 13 math chapters. However, I felt my exam (remember each exam is different) was heavy in the Fluids, Heat Transfer, Power Cycles, and HVAC sections of the MERM. I felt there were questions from all sections of the MERM, but a good majority seemed to be centered on these sections, particularly Power Cycles.
> Also, I would highly recommend getting the other SMS to help prepare for the morning. They are a small investment to help provide you the best chance of passing the exam the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> I havent taken the PE yet, but I definitely feel like there's a good third of the book I can skim or skip and not miss anything. There's no way you can know every single topic perfectly, you just have to know where to find it if asked. Also, there's some sections in there that I really doubt you'd see unless you're taking the depth section for that topic. I could be wrong, but I dont think they'll ask too many questions about advanced topics like Fanno or Rayleigh Flow or shocks on an AM section. That really narrows down the subject matter to basic fluid mechanics (pumps and head loss type problems), basic thermo (processes, saturation/steam table problems), heat xfer, power cycles, psychometrics, basic solid mechanics, and maybe some oddball questions from MD, economics, and some other sections that you can find by going through the index.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think the MD sections of the MERM are pretty weak once you get past basic solid mechanics and get into the meat of machine design. I spent a day reading through my Shigley book to refresh on that stuff so hopefully that section will be a bit easier now as I try more practice problems.


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## HerrKaLeun

Bman said:


> I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.


I find myself working through each chapter (at 29 now) and try to do as many problems as i can. but at some point the problems seem to be way too complex to be in the test. Especially when it is Thermo/Fluid/Machine I kind of don't do the problems if they get too complicated (and if the solution is a page long).

i try to do one chapter every day after work. some days I just don't really get to do much and hope to make up for it on weekends. Obviously some chapters have none or only very few easy problems (which i find weird, since I paid for the MERM and MERM covers the chapters assuming they'd be important, but then there are no questions)

The NCEES sample exam seems much much easier than the sample problems.

The questions that actually relate to HVAC (i.e. duct design) really seem easy to me. But all the machine design stuff is like a foreign language to me, my head hurts. So I hope the am section aren't too hard on those parts (I do HVAC pm).

It appears the MERM often is not sufficient to solve the problems. for example chapter 30 (Nuclear) has no single equation needed to solve the questions.

I hope to be all done with the "500"Lindeburg questions (or 300 if i skip many  by end of September. then i do the PPI sample exam, HVAC SMS and NCEES. Maybe i buy the other to SMS if I have enough time since everyone seems to think they are helpful. If i still have time I can revisit the "500" questions that I skipped.

Will there be much regarding fire protection or other code questions? I read NFPA and uniform mechanical code are good to take. The issue is, in our city (I work for a city) the *International* fire code is adapted and our state code is based on *international*l mechanical code. so I have the INTERNATIONAL codes available and don't want to buy the national ones. I can't imagine they are so different that it is worth buying different a versions.

I have all the ASHRAE books and standards (15,34, 55, 62, 90) at work.


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## navyasw02

HerrKaLeun said:


> Bman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I skimmed through certain chapters that I didn't feel were that relevant to my depth (mostly to do with MD), but I did work through all of the accompanying practice problems. Most of the practice problems I would have to go back through the MERM looking for clues on how to solve them, so you basically end up reading it twice if you already read through the chapter previously... But I agree, there are just certain chapters that felt like reading a code book to me, my eyes would start to cross after the first couple paragraphs.
> 
> 
> 
> I find myself working through each chapter (at 29 now) and try to do as many problems as i can. but at some point the problems seem to be way too complex to be in the test. Especially when it is Thermo/Fluid/Machine I kind of don't do the problems if they get too complicated (and if the solution is a page long).
> 
> i try to do one chapter every day after work. some days I just don't really get to do much and hope to make up for it on weekends. Obvioulsy some chapters have none or only very few easy problems (which i find weird, since I paid for the MERM and MERM covers the chapters assuming they'd be important, but then there are no questions)
> 
> The NCEES sample exam seems much much easier than the sample problems.
> 
> The questions that actually relate to HVAC (i.e. duct design) really seem easy to me. But all the machine design stuff is like a foreign language to me, my head hurts. So I hope the am section aren't too hard on those parts (I do HVAC pm).
> 
> It appears the MERM often is not sufficient to solve the problems.
> 
> I hope to be all done with the "500"Lindeburg questions (or 300 if i skip many  by end of September. then i do the PPI sample exam, HVAC SMS and NCEES. Maybe i buy the other to SMS if I have enough time since everyone seems to think they are helpful. If i still have time I can revisit the "500" questions that I skipped.
> 
> Will there be much regarding fire protection or other code questions? I read NFPA and uniform mechanical code are good to take. The issue is, in our city (I work for a city) the *International* fire code is adapted and our state code is based on *international*l mechanical code. so I have the INTERNATIONAL codes available and don't want to buy the national ones. I can't imagine they are so different that it is worth buying different a versions.
> 
> I have all the ASHRAE books and standards (15,34, 55, 62, 90) at work.
Click to expand...

What's the best way to study for the AM session? I was thinking about doing the afternoon sessions of the NCEES exams, but I think those might be a little more complex than the AM session questions.


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## Bman

I think you guys are both on track and seem to be doing fine. Once you get to the point where you start taking the sample exams, you will get a better understanding of where you need to begin focusing and getting more in depth. I took the PPI exam about 6 weeks before the exam date. Many people say just work through the problems, but I did it timed to help condition myself for the stress of taking an 8 hour exam... At this point, just keep trudging along and do the best you can to at least familiarize yourselves with as much material as possible.


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