# NEC questions



## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (Feb 22, 2008)

The NEC can be confusing, especially if you don't use it regularly. There are usually around +/- 5 NEC questions and you'll have a few more for Power than if you took ECC or Computer Depths.

The NEC is like an art within itself and you can't really "study" it, you just have to know how to find information in it, and it's tricky. There are fine print notes (FPN), exceptions and cross-references. You just need to know how its laid out and how to find info fast, just like using your other PE reference books.

You should have the NEC Codebook for the Electrical exam. The NEC Handbook (hardcover) is better if you can borrow one, it's expensive but it has color pictures, the Codebook has no pictures, all text.

Mike Holt's company has a guidebook to understanding the NEC which would benefit anybody, but especially if you don't use the NEC regularly. You can look at sample pages on his website.

Here's a link to mike Holts website: http://www.mikeholt.com/bookcategory.php?t...p;from=Products

I think all you would need is the Volume I Book which covers NEC Articles 90-450, it's $59. I don't think you'd need the Volume I Workbook though.

There may be other good ones, but this is the best I've seen.

Every little bot helps, it just boils down to how bad you think you need to get those +/- 5 questions right to pass and how much they're worth.

Good Luck!


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## chaosiscash (Feb 22, 2008)

I also took a copy of Ugly's electrical references along with my NEC handbook. That turned out to be a good move from a "speed of test" standpoint.


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## Dark Knight (Feb 22, 2008)

I have NEC problems for practice. I posted the problems here once and I think there is still a thread with them on it.

If you want the problems but cannot find them shoot me a PM.

edited: The last sentence was horrible. Looked like a second grader wrote it. :Locolaugh:


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (Feb 24, 2008)

Bring It's NEC post was great. Check that out first.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 24, 2008)

Techie_Junkie PE said:


> Bring It's NEC post was great. Check that out first.


Can you put a link to it in this thread?


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## Dark Knight (Feb 24, 2008)

I looked for the thread but did not find but here you go mate.

Let me know if that helps.

Update: After my post I suddenly used my brain and found the thread. It was on a thread about NEC level of difficulty. I deleted that attachement to avoid duplicity.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 25, 2008)

BringItOn said:


> I looked for the thread but did not find but here you go mate.
> 
> 
> Let me know if that helps.
> ...


Thanks for re-posting the link. Actually, now that I see it, I have already downloaded and printed that handout. I found it on these boards when I first joined. Still and excellent resource that needed a bump though.


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## MiPatLwr (Feb 28, 2008)

The morning exam specs don't refer to the NEC.

It is only specifically referred to in the afternoon power exam specs.

I am trying to determine how to budget my study time.

I plan to take the afternoon computer test.

The NEC material is much less intense than something like Bode plots. Therefore, I would like to spend some study time on the NEC, but only if I am likely to see three or more NEC questions on morning breadth/afternoon computers.

How many NEC questions, if any, am I likely to see on morning breadth/afternoon computers?


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## benbo (Feb 28, 2008)

MiPatLwr said:


> The morning exam specs don't refer to the NEC.It is only specifically referred to in the afternoon power exam specs.
> 
> I am trying to determine how to budget my study time.
> 
> ...


THe specs say that the list is not exhaustive, so there could be some on there.

I took the ECC afternoon module. I brought the NEC along, and I think I stuck a couple tabs in it. Also, I spent a little time looking through it, but not a lot. At least from my point of view, that book is hard to find things in. If you don't use it a lot, or practice a lot with it, you are sort of relying on luck. THat's why I didn't take power. But I think it is worth a little time, just to get the idea of the structure of the book and the topics.

I can tell you that the very best representation of the NCEES exam is the NCEES "Electrical and Computer Engineering Sample Questions and Answers." Look at tha to get an idea.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm working through the Kaplan Sample Exam, and there were 5 or 6 questions about the NEC on it. I was wondering the same thing you were (about NEC questions being on the morning exam) until I saw that. I'm interested to see if there are any NECs on the NCEES practice exam...but I'm trying to save that for a "real world" practice for the exam (dress rehearsal, dry run, etc.).


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## benbo (Feb 28, 2008)

wilheldp said:


> I'm working through the Kaplan Sample Exam, and there were 5 or 6 questions about the NEC on it. I was wondering the same thing you were (about NEC questions being on the morning exam) until I saw that. I'm interested to see if there are any NECs on the NCEES practice exam...but I'm trying to save that for a "real world" practice for the exam (dress rehearsal, dry run, etc.).


The Kaplan exam is significantly more difficult than the NCEES exam, although it covers the same general topic areas.

I don't think there is any problem telling you there are two code type questions on the NCEES sample exam, but I'm not sure you specifically need the NEC. I didn't see it referenced in the answers.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 28, 2008)

benbo said:


> The Kaplan exam is significantly more difficult than the NCEES exam, although it covers the same general topic areas.I don't think there is any problem telling you there are two code type questions on the NCEES sample exam, but I'm not sure you specifically need the NEC. I didn't see it referenced in the answers.


That's odd. How can you have questions about a code without referencing said code?

Is the Kaplan _Exam_ harder than the real exam? The freaking practice problems are harder than Chinese arithmetic, but the Exam problems are significantly easier. If these are easier than the actual exam, then I would feel a little better about how much I don't know. One glaring difference is that the Kaplan problems build on each other sometimes, so if you miss one, you have an incorrect input for the next. I know the real exam isn't like that which makes me happy.


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## benbo (Feb 28, 2008)

wilheldp said:


> That's odd. How can you have questions about a code without referencing said code?
> Is the Kaplan _Exam_ harder than the real exam? The freaking practice problems are harder than Chinese arithmetic, but the Exam problems are significantly easier. If these are easier than the actual exam, then I would feel a little better about how much I don't know. One glaring difference is that the Kaplan problems build on each other sometimes, so if you miss one, you have an incorrect input for the next. I know the real exam isn't like that which makes me happy.


If you think the Kaplan sample exam problems are fairly easy, you will find the NCEES sample problems ridiculously easy. And you're right, they don't build on each other.

It's possible that I am just calling them "code" questions. It is hard to explain since you probably don't want to know the exact question, but they are along the lines of "To properly protect against electrical shock in such and such a circuit, the such and such line should be connected where?"

And then they give four choices. This may just be common knowlege, but it is the closest thing to a code question there is on that exam.

Also, since I believe the specs call out which version of the NEC the test is based on, they may just expect you to assume any code questions come out of there. Although the power afternoon questions do reference the code a lot in the answers.

I can't tell you whether to just forget about it, thats your call.


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## Dark Knight (Feb 28, 2008)

Just a reminder: The NEC questions can, and will, touch motors too. For the tests I took NEC was one the references I used the most.


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## benbo (Feb 28, 2008)

BringItOn said:


> Just a reminder: The NEC questions can, and will, touch motors too. For the tests I took NEC was one the references I used the most.


Hi BIO. The fellow I was answering is taking the computer depth. He wants to know how much NEC in the AM. We should tell him you took Power PM.


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## Dark Knight (Feb 28, 2008)

benbo said:


> Hi BIO. The fellow I was answering is taking the computer depth. He wants to know how much NEC in the AM. We should tell him you took Power PM.


Ah...Sorry about that mate. I did not read the thread carefully but you are right. I fumbled that one. Thought I was helping the fellow EE.

Benbo is right. NEC touches motors on the afternoon part of the Power module. For the morning the questions are rather simple. Just a matter to know what tables or articles apply. With the practice problems of the NCEES Sample Test you should be more than ready.

Thanks Benbo.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 28, 2008)

benbo said:


> If you think the Kaplan sample exam problems are fairly easy, you will find the NCEES sample problems ridiculously easy. And you're right, they don't build on each other.
> It's possible that I am just calling them "code" questions. It is hard to explain since you probably don't want to know the exact question, but they are along the lines of "To properly protect against electrical shock in such and such a circuit, the such and such line should be connected where?"
> 
> And then they give four choices. This may just be common knowlege, but it is the closest thing to a code question there is on that exam.
> ...


Good to know. I was feeling pretty dumb.

I don't really care if you tell me the problems. I've looked at the NCEES book just to get a feel for the format, so it's not like I'm trying to keep it sealed until I want to take the test. But then again, I'm not all that concerned about the NEC questions. Aside from the format of the Code being really non-user friendly, I can typically find the info I need within the 6 minute window. I only missed one of the Kaplan NEC questions and that is because I applied the code for grounding conductors to the neutral of the 4-wire WYE supply (oops).


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## mudpuppy (Feb 28, 2008)

Maybe I have a different idea of what a code question on the exam is, but as I recall from the NCEES practice test, certain questions explicitly state something like "according to the 2005 National Electric Code . . . " and these questions only appear in the Power depth module.

According to the exam specs on the NCEES website, the NEC is only specifically covered on the power depth, so I wouldn't worry about it much for the morning and Computer afternoon. However, general knowledge of the NEC can't hurt, especially for the morning questions along the lines that benbo mentioned.


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## Frontier05 (Mar 5, 2008)

mudpuppy said:


> Maybe I have a different idea of what a code question on the exam is, but as I recall from the NCEES practice test, certain questions explicitly state something like "according to the 2005 National Electric Code . . . " and these questions only appear in the Power depth module.
> According to the exam specs on the NCEES website, the NEC is only specifically covered on the power depth, so I wouldn't worry about it much for the morning and Computer afternoon. However, general knowledge of the NEC can't hurt, especially for the morning questions along the lines that benbo mentioned.



Where in the world did this rumor start about NEC only in the afternoon?

NEC type questions have an equal oppertunity in both the morning and afternoon.


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (Mar 6, 2008)

I thought there were NEC questions on the morning section as well. When I saw those comments, I thought the Fog of War clouded my memory!

Yes, I would say there are NEC questions on the AM portion, simpler look-up type questions. The PM questions would proably be the tricker Table look-up, cross-reference type with the fine print exceptions below the Table that everyone usually misses.


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## mudpuppy (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm not trying to start any rumors, just stating what I understand to be true.

In my opinion, in order to be a code quesiton, a problem must explicitly state the words "NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE" in the problem statement. I do not remember any of these problems on the breadth module. My memory is not very good, though, so if someone can find a problem on the NCEES sample exam in the breadth section that explictly refers to the NEC in the problem statement, please let us know and I will recant what I've stated. Otherwise I still _think_ all the NEC problems were only on the power depth (and the NEC is only mentioned on the power depth exam specs so it would be awfully unfair of them to throw in a problem in the breadth module that _requires_ a copy of the NEC).

However, as I attempted to point out in my original post, there may be problems on the breadth section or the ECC (or maybe computers) depth for which the NEC would come in handy, even though the problem statement does not explictly state "NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE". I think this is also the point benbo was making.

Again, _please_ correct me with a reference to the sample exam if I am wrong! I'll try to remember to check the sample exam out of the library and check because I'm really worried now that I've provided misinformation.


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## benbo (Mar 6, 2008)

mudpuppy said:


> I'm not trying to start any rumors, just stating what I understand to be true.
> In my opinion, in order to be a code quesiton, a problem must explicitly state the words "NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE" in the problem statement. I do not remember any of these problems on the breadth module. My memory is not very good, though, so if someone can find a problem on the NCEES sample exam in the breadth section that explictly refers to the NEC in the problem statement, please let us know and I will recant what I've stated. Otherwise I still _think_ all the NEC problems were only on the power depth (and the NEC is only mentioned on the power depth exam specs so it would be awfully unfair of them to throw in a problem in the breadth module that _requires_ a copy of the NEC).
> 
> However, as I attempted to point out in my original post, there may be problems on the breadth section or the ECC (or maybe computers) depth for which the NEC would come in handy, even though the problem statement does not explictly state "NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE". I think this is also the point benbo was making.
> ...


In the Sample test from NCEES, the only breadth questions that could be considered anywhere near code questions are 104. 105, and 137 which are generally about grounding, safety and circuit protection. None of them specificially mention the NEC code in the question or answer. I assume you might be able to find something about these things in the code, and you might just know this stuff without the book. But it can't hurt to glance through the book and bring it along. We obviously can't discuss the particulars of any actual exam.


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## Dark Knight (Mar 7, 2008)

As a threepeater I feel obligated to include my thoughts about this.

I always found NEC problems in the morning, not difficult, just a matter of knowing what 252 and 3-10.16 are and how to use it.

In the afternoon it was more complicated but do-able, mostly related with motors and the FLC for three phase and single phase machines, but I took Power Module. I am darn sure the ECCs did not have to deal with this.

Take my opinion for what it may worth. That is what I can remember and have in mind that, also, I am suffering from TPPED(Traumatic Post PE Dissorder).


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## mudpuppy (Mar 7, 2008)

benbo said:


> In the Sample test from NCEES, the only breadth questions that could be considered anywhere near code questions are 104. 105, and 137 which are generally about grounding, safety and circuit protection. None of them specificially mention the NEC code in the question or answer. I assume you might be able to find something about these things in the code, and you might just know this stuff without the book.


Thanks for looking benbo. This is basically what I remember. Maybe some of us just disagree about what a code quesiton is. In my opinion the questions that specifically refer to the NEC _require_ a copy of the code to answer the question (often to look something up in a table), while the others don't absolutely require a copy of the code book (a different reference or a practial experience might work).



> But it can't hurt to glance through the book and bring it along. We obviously can't discuss the particulars of any actual exam.


I completely agree. And I would never recommend someone _not_ study something they think would help them on the exam.


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## benbo (Mar 7, 2008)

BringItOn said:


> As a threepeater I feel obligated to include my thoughts about this.
> I always found NEC problems in the morning, not difficult, just a matter of knowing what 252 and 3-10.16 are and how to use it.
> 
> In the afternoon it was more complicated but do-able, mostly related with motors and the FLC for three phase and single phase machines, but I took Power Module. I am darn sure the ECCs did not have to deal with this.
> ...


I don't have any idea what 252 and 3-10.16 are.


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## Dark Knight (Mar 7, 2008)

benbo said:


> I don't have any idea what 252 and 3-10.16 are.


Yes you do. You just did not remember :laugh:


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## benbo (Mar 7, 2008)

BringItOn said:


> Yes you do. You just did not remember :laugh:


No, I guarantee you I never knew that.

I was so horrible with the NEC that I could work a practice problem, look at the answer, and come back an hour later and not be able to find it. At least for me, to be any good at the NEC would require a lot of practice.

I took the October 2005 with ECC afternoon. And, like I said, I was horrible with NEC. I spent a total of about 4 hours studying it, and just broght it along. I wouldn't swear one way or the other if there were code questions in the AM, but if there were -

1. I got incredibly lucky and found the answers, or guessed right.

2. I did well enough on the rest of the test, and there were so few of them that I still passed.

At least that is my recollection. As far as the upcoming exam, people just have to take their chances one way or the other.


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## Wolverine (Mar 7, 2008)

Another resource that might be helpful was a book loaned to me called something like "Interpreting the NEC." It had For-Dummies style sketches that show real world applications of the NEC. I specifically remember at least one grounding question on the PM Power session that could have just as well been lifted verbatim from the "Interpreting..." manual.

I approached the test with a "Percentage of Points" philosophy where I focused not on mastering every subject, but on being able to get at least n-percentage on a given topic. Enough points and you pass (3/3 on NEC + 1/3 on OpAmps = pass). Don't forget - NEC, like Engineering Econ, is easy points, IF you know how to get them.


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## Dark Knight (Mar 7, 2008)

The thing about NEC is the intimidation factor. Many people feel intimidated by the darn book and I don't blame them. But, as Wolverine said, NEC points are easy points once you are familiarized(spell check please) with it. Takes a lot of work, thats for sure.


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## jdd18vm (Mar 9, 2008)

I'll just throw in my 2 cents for what its worth, and that may be very little.

As someone who took the Oct 07 power depth w/o success and being very familiar with the NEC I can only tell you there werent ENOUGH questions on the NEC in the morning imho.

Benbo is exactly right 104 and 137 are right out of the NEC, yet NEC isn't stated.. I think 105 is more about knowing the how the device works, but I will say you can find that sort of explanatory info in the NEC Handbook.

I apologize for not looking back in this post and risk repeating whats been said but its worth reinforcing, if you can get the Handbook its a little more useful. Again for you ECC guys I don't know that I would recommend buying it but borrow it. For Power, well worth the investment.

Like Mud (I think) said its all about points, and these are easy ones (AM ones in particular) then again you guys think controls are easy...ugh.

Im still hoping for 6 NEC questions and only 3 on controls in April am.

I noticed the Camara practice test had a LOT of NEC in the am, I didn't see that in OCT.

There is a whole other thread on the Kaplan NEC question(s), but that question is flawed from the start (NEC doesnt allow #1s to be paralleled), but the principals and procedures are fine.

JD


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## adr (Mar 10, 2008)

The NEC handbook definitely helped. The Oct 07 exam had a few safety/grounding type questions on the AM. I answered one by looking it up in the NEC handbook. Another I was able to answer because I had seen the exact same situation while troubleshooting. I don't think I would've been able to answer that one had I not seen the problem before.

I'd recommend taking the NEC handbook.


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