# Consensus on calling ourselves PE prior to issuance of license #?



## shellbell500 (Jan 8, 2008)

So, what was the outcome of that thread re: calling ourselves PE's prior to receiving our license #s?

Basically, I want to update my email autosignature to include "PE" after my name. Obviously I won't be stamping any drawings or calling myself a "PE" in any other way prior to receiving an actual stamp. Do you think this is OK? Does NCEES/any other authority address this issue anywhere?

I have been waiting so long for this I really want to do it!


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

^^^ I had suggested PE-elect during the last exam cycle. It has a regal ring AND conveys the point - you are WAITING for your license at the hands of .....






Nothing like waiting for the results .... 

 ... and then your license ....





JR


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## MA_PE (Jan 8, 2008)

My short answer:

No. Don't call yourself a PE until you have a license number.


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## squishles10 (Jan 8, 2008)

Everyone I know does the second they get the letter. Just because you don't have a number yet doesn't mean you're not a PE- as long as you passed everything, what's the problem? Like you said, you're not stamping anything, so who cares?


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## C-Dog (Jan 8, 2008)

I once had a boss who told me I could put what ever I wanted on my business card for my title. He said people, when they looked at me, would know I was just some punk kid right out of school.


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## MA_PE (Jan 8, 2008)

squishles10 said:


> Everyone I know does the second they get the letter. Just because you don't have a number yet doesn't mean you're not a PE- as long as you passed everything, what's the problem? Like you said, you're not stamping anything, so who cares?


nobody as long as nobody makes a stink about it. If you look at the literal interpretation of the laws governing the practioce of engineering and the use of the PE tilte in some of the states these days, the restrictions are getting ridiculous and you may run the risk of "practicing without a license" and be subject to board disciplinary actions.

I know I sound like an alarmist, but the laws are what the laws are and if someone wants to push it (like is common in our litigious society) then it could lead to some trouble. Consensus is once your registered you're only a "PE" in that state - nowhere else and any representation in any other state of being a "PE" is verbotten. Lastly, with this issue it is my opinion that you're NOT a PE until your state board tells you that you are. An exam passing notification tells you only that you passed the exam. Until they issue you a license number the state hasn't recognized that you have met all the requirements to have the designation of PE in that state.

Prior to that issuance your "application" is still "pending" and has not been fully accepted/acknowledged.

It's actually pretty simple.

I agree that for all practical purposes no one would really care, but it's my interpretation that it's not in conformance with the letter of the law.


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## IlPadrino (Jan 8, 2008)

MA_PE said:


> nobody as long as nobody makes a stink about it. If you look at the literal interpretation of the laws governing the practioce of engineering and the use of the PE tilte in some of the states these days, the restrictions are getting ridiculous and you may run the risk of "practicing without a license" and be subject to board disciplinary actions.
> I know I sound like an alarmist, but the laws are what the laws are and if someone wants to push it (like is common in our litigious society) then it could lead to some trouble. Consensus is once your registered you're only a "PE" in that state - nowhere else and any representation in any other state of being a "PE" is verbotten. Lastly, with this issue it is my opinion that you're NOT a PE until your state board tells you that you are. An exam passing notification tells you only that you passed the exam. Until they issue you a license number the state hasn't recognized that you have met all the requirements to have the designation of PE in that state.
> 
> Prior to that issuance your "application" is still "pending" and has not been fully accepted/acknowledged.
> ...


I agree on all points. The processes vary greatly by State. In some States (so I'm told) the Board doesn't validate the experience requirement until AFTER the exam results. In some States, the "you passed letter" includes "congratulations, you're now a PE and here's your license number" (that's the case in Oregon). And I'd guess most States are somewhere in between.

Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but with guys like Tom in the world, who knows what can happen? After waiting years why not wait a few months longer?


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## DVINNY (Jan 8, 2008)

This place is in the same town as I am, and calls itself Merrick Engineering. They are not trying to hide this name, they run commercials on TV, their website has engineering in the title for cryin' out loud. (they make coat hangers)

I would like to know how they get away with this, and why the WV State Board hasn't clamped down on their nuts yet.

You must see this link:

http://www.merrickengineering.com/about.html

Basically, if they are an engineering firm, then I was a PE after passing but before getting my number.


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## NCcarguy (Jan 8, 2008)

My take on this.....The ONLY thing that would get you in trouble is for someone to complain to your board, and them to find reason to punish you....I REALLY can't see that it would be possible for the board to get on to someone that has PASSED the exam, but not recieved the letter yet, as long as you're just calling yourself a PE.....technically, you ARE....you just can't seal plans until you have a number....

I SAY GO AHEAD!


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## kevo_55 (Jan 8, 2008)

In Minnesota, a Professional Geologist got busted for stating that he was a PG (in progress).

http://www.aelslagid.state.mn.us/enf.html#0507.html

I'd wait until you get your wall cert before I add my title.


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## MA_PE (Jan 8, 2008)

kevo_55 said:


> In Minnesota, a Professional Geologist got busted for stating that he was a PG (in progress).
> http://www.aelslagid.state.mn.us/enf.html#0507.html
> 
> I'd wait until you get your wall cert before I add my title.


good example. if I were to read bewteen the lines, I say this guy was likely registered in other states and then applied for comity to MN after he was called on it.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 8, 2008)

Florida makes you read the rules and regulations as a requisite to take the test or grant you a license if you are already licensed in another state. They even test you about it and you have to score 80% or higher. From that reading you can determine that in the fudging (Hello Fudgemaster....wherever you are) state of Hellida you cannot introduce yourself as a PE until you have the license. I waited until I saw my number on the web to include P.E. in my e-mails signature.

Heck...I waited almost 3 months to learn I passed so that was irrelevant for me. If you allow me to give you an advice wait until you have your license number. It is safer that way. You never know who is watching and envy is a very potent poison.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

squishles10 said:


> Everyone I know does the second they get the letter. Just because you don't have a number yet doesn't mean you're not a PE- as long as you passed everything, what's the problem? Like you said, you're not stamping anything, so who cares?


Notwithstanding the previous statements of other posters, consider this:

1. Passing an examination is not tantamount to holding a license. The State Board (to whom you applied) ultimately has the discretion and authority to license you as a Professional Engineer.

2. Once you have obtained licensure as a Professional Engineer within a jurisdiction (state), those rights and privileges to practice engineering are LIMITED to that jurisdiction (e.g. many states out-right prohibit the use of 'engineer' in the title if you are not licensed in that state).

3. In order to practice engineering in a different jurisdiction, you must apply to the new jurisdiction's licensing board and meet the requirements of THAT jurisdiction. In some cases, the requirement may differ (_e.g._ degree requirements, years of experience, specialty exams, _etc._) to the point where you may have to offer more in order to obtain that license.

4. Licensure as a Professional Engineer in other jurisdictions is NOT PRESUMPTIVE once you have passed the NCEES examination - you must meet any other criteria that the jurisdiction licensing board requires.

5. Most states PROHIBIT the usage of Professional Engineer or similar terms that convey a sense that you are licensed under the jurisdictions statutes and rules when using a title in correspondence. As an example, in Florida, Florida Statute 471, F.S. states ..



> 471.003(1) No person other than a duly licensed engineer shall practice engineering or use the name or title of "licensed engineer," "professional engineer," or any other title, designation, words, letters, abbreviations, or device tending to indicate that such person holds an active license as an engineer in this state.


The bottom line here is that I am really not try to bust anyone's balls - I am only pointing out that which your state board would tell you if you were to send them an e-mail with P.E. in the title as you were waiting for results or your license or seeking comity with that state (jurisdiction).

Everyone here (and especially ME) wants to share in your accomplishments and celebrations for what is THE culmination of A LOT of hard work. Everyone at this board understands and appreciates what it means to call yourself a P.E. My point is just to use a little discretion so you don't find yourself running afoul and in an akward position with your state board. If you find the licensing process to be too inane for your liking - try the disciplinary process for breaking a rule (or statute)! They take those things seriously.

Last thought (promise):

I am proud of everyone who obtains thier license and knowing that I have been able to help so many down the road to licensure. It is one of the primary reasons I participate at THIS board. While I am very knowledgable about engineering subjects and help many through exam types of issues, I feel it is equally important to address potential professional and licensure issues. While the members of this board are happy to recognize the 'P.E.' achievement after you receive your exam results - caution should be used in correspondence before you have actually received your license.

Best regards,

JR


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 8, 2008)

I waited until I saw I'd been assigned a license number. I think the others have given good reasons to follow that practice.


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## gymrat1279 PE (Jan 8, 2008)

IlPadrino said:


> I agree on all points. The processes vary greatly by State. In some States (so I'm told) the Board doesn't validate the experience requirement until AFTER the exam results. In some States, the "you passed letter" includes "congratulations, you're now a PE and here's your license number" (that's the case in Oregon). And I'd guess most States are somewhere in between.
> Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but with guys like Tom in the world, who knows what can happen? After waiting years why not wait a few months longer?


Michigan is one of those states that doesn't validate experience until after you passed the exam. Luckily we get our results early. I sent in my application this week and hopefully all of my experience verification references will have the forms sent in by the end of the week. I have 2 of the 5 sent in. I can't wait to put P.E. on my e-mail signature but I'm going to wait until I get my license number... which will probably be another couple months.


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## Sschell (Jan 8, 2008)

DVINNY said:


> This place is in the same town as I am, and calls itself Merrick Engineering. They are not trying to hide this name, they run commercials on TV, their website has engineering in the title for cryin' out loud. (they make coat hangers)
> I would like to know how they get away with this, and why the WV State Board hasn't clamped down on their nuts yet.
> 
> You must see this link:
> ...



My understanding (in California) is that this is ligit because they are a manufacturer, and engineers working in a manufacturing house do not need to be licensed. If they were offering engineering services (as opposed to manufactured goods) as their "product" then Merrick would have to be the last name of the principal engineer at that firm AND Merrick would need to be licensed.

that's my understanding.


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (Jan 8, 2008)

I say go for it! You earned it. :respect:

As long as you don't stamp or give anything your :holyness: as a PE. I would check with your State to double check, but as far as telling people you are a PE or even updating your business card, I can't see where thats a problem. maybe throw out the disclaimer the your license # is pending?


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## IlPadrino (Jan 8, 2008)

Techie_Junkie PE said:


> I would check with your State to double check


I'd bet large amounts of beer that there's not a State Board in these 50 states (plus the commonwealths!) that would tell you they're OK with you using the PE title while they're still "processing" your license. Well... maybe if you called them and got a little old lady who was tired at the end of the day and just wanted to get your off the phone... maybe!


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## jartgo (Jan 8, 2008)

I think that the overeagerness to put "P.E." behind our names is one source of disrespect in the industry. It's a license and certainly an accomplishment to be proud of, but I wouldn't advocate immediately "wearing it on your sleeve." I was always turned off by people that got their license and immediately put it all over themselves like they immediately deserved respect from all those they encountered. I just feel like respect is something that's earned on an individual basis, not issued by a board.

I got my number before Christmas, still haven't put PE on anything, because I haven't done anything that required the license.


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## rudy (Jan 9, 2008)

The company I work for does not require a license. However, an email was sent out by the admin's a few years ago concerning using "Engineer" in business cards. They said that the only way they would complete the business card orders with "Engineer" on them, would be that we provide documented proof. I'm in Texas, so I already have my PE # on-line. But I'm waiting for my letter as the documented proof before ordering business cards.

On the other extreme, do we HAVE to use PE after our name? Alot of people from my work do not know the significance of being a PE. So using PE in my email signature would not really have much bearing.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

rudy said:


> On the other extreme, do we HAVE to use PE after our name? Alot of people from my work do not know the significance of being a PE. So using PE in my email signature would not really have much bearing.


As long as you are not representing yourself in some manner as practicing professional engineering as defined by your state board's rules then you are not required to include that title in your correspondence. In fact, some state boards (and companies) expressly prohibit the use of the title if you are conducting business in a state you are not licensed in but hold a license in your home state.

JR


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## IlPadrino (Jan 9, 2008)

jregieng said:


> As long as you are not representing yourself in some manner as practicing professional engineering as defined by your state board's rules then you are not required to include that title in your correspondence. In fact, some state boards (and companies) expressly prohibit the use of the title if you are conducting business in a state you are not licensed in but hold a license in your home state.
> JR


Being a federal employee I've often wondered about that... my work doesn't fall under any State's jurisdiction. I consider myself exempt from this prohibition. Maybe I've got it backwards.


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## engr_tam (Jan 12, 2008)

IlPadrino said:


> Being a federal employee I've often wondered about that... my work doesn't fall under any State's jurisdiction. I consider myself exempt from this prohibition. Maybe I've got it backwards.


So based upon the couple previous posts, because I work in Pennsylvania and earned my PE license in Delaware, I cannot use P.E. on my business cards until I get reciprocity/comity in Pennsylvania? Does that also mean I cannot use the PE designation in my email signatures since I do work for clients in Pennsylvania and South Carolina?

I agree with the idea that the PE isn't meant to be thrown around lightly like a beach ball at a concert. I do have my license number, but Delaware only awards the certificate after you submit your license fee and get your embosser seal. However, Delaware addressed my last letter with the P.E. designation at the end of my name. (yes, it was exiting to see it in print for the first time!) But I'm reluctant to use it now given the situation I'm in.


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## kevo_55 (Jan 12, 2008)

Many states allow you to call yourself a PE on business cards and on email signatures if you are licensed in the state on that card or signature.

Not all of them do though.....


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## TXengrChickPE (Jan 12, 2008)

Not sure how it works for fed employees... as far as the state thing goes, if you have a business card that has an address in PA, and has PE after your name, I would assume that you are a PE licensed in PA... as I think most people would. I would have no qualms distributing that card to anyone, no matter what state they are in. If you are licensed in a state other than the address on your card, I'd say you would have to disclose that somehow... for instance:

John P. Smith, P.E. (licensed in Delaware)

ABC Engineering

15 P Street

Philadelphia, PA

That way, you are showing that you have passed the exam and gotten a state to recognize your proficiency as an Engineer... but you're not claiming to be an Engineer in PA.

The same kind of disclaimer may work for fed employees. You could simply list what state (or states) you are licensed in...


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## engr_tam (Jan 12, 2008)

TXengrChickPE said:


> Not sure how it works for fed employees... as far as the state thing goes, if you have a business card that has an address in PA, and has PE after your name, I would assume that you are a PE licensed in PA... as I think most people would. I would have no qualms distributing that card to anyone, no matter what state they are in. If you are licensed in a state other than the address on your card, I'd say you would have to disclose that somehow... for instance:
> John P. Smith, P.E. (licensed in Delaware)
> 
> ABC Engineering
> ...


Thanks, that makes sense.


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## DVINNY (Jan 13, 2008)

engr_tam said:


> because I work in Pennsylvania and earned my PE license in Delaware, I cannot use P.E. on my business cards until I get reciprocity/comity in Pennsylvania?


See TXengrChickPE's response.



TXengrChickPE said:


> if you have a business card that has an address in PA, and has PE after your name, I would assume that you are a PE licensed in PA... as I think most people would.


This is correct ^^ from what I have always been told.

Our state board even distributes a piece of literature explaining when and what situations are proper to stamp or not to stamp.

http://www.wvpebd.org/pdf_word_files/Publi...ls_brochure.pdf


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## DVINNY (Jan 13, 2008)

engr_tam said:


> because I work in Pennsylvania and earned my PE license in Delaware, I cannot use P.E. on my business cards until I get reciprocity/comity in Pennsylvania?


See TXengrChickPE's response.



TXengrChickPE said:


> if you have a business card that has an address in PA, and has PE after your name, I would assume that you are a PE licensed in PA... as I think most people would.


This is correct ^^ from what I have always been told.

Our state board even distributes a piece of literature explaining when and what situations are proper to stamp or not to stamp.

http://www.wvpebd.org/pdf_word_files/Publi...ls_brochure.pdf


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## IlPadrino (Jan 13, 2008)

TXengrChickPE said:


> John P. Smith, P.E. (licensed in Delaware)ABC Engineering
> 
> 15 P Street
> 
> ...


Makes sense. I wonder, though, who you'd need to be more worried about: the State you're licensed in or the State listed on your business card? If it's the State listed on the business card, I'd think federal employees are OK (I just can't see a State going after an "unlicensed" Engineer doing federal work in their State). If it's the State you're licensed in, I'd think it only takes someone disgruntled (Tom, anyone?) to make a complaint.


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## roadmonkey (Jan 14, 2008)

Wait for the registration number, its a couple of weeks.


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## engr_tam (Jan 16, 2008)

It's official. I am a PE, but because PA still asks when you got your EIT certificate on the reciprocity application, I have to wait until Sept. 2009 to become a PE in my HOME STATE!!! Arrgh!

At least I got the test out of the way, and my shiny new embosser for DE will be arriving this week! :multiplespotting:

However, because of this, I can't call myself a PE in PA. So probably no pay raise or title changes for me! Whoo hoo!!

Doesn't life SUCK?


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## cbchua78 (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm not sure where I should post this but I just got my PE license number in FL (on the website) and I'm officially a Professional Engineer!!


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## brick_27 (Jan 18, 2008)

In Indiana we are supposed to wait until the board assigns numbers... from what I have been told. Basically, the board receives your test results and then sends a letter requesting $50 for them to issue a license number to you.


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## ALBin517 (Jan 18, 2008)

shellbell500 said:


> So, what was the outcome of that thread re: calling ourselves PE's prior to receiving our license #s?
> Basically, I want to update my email autosignature to include "PE" after my name. Obviously I won't be stamping any drawings or calling myself a "PE" in any other way prior to receiving an actual stamp. Do you think this is OK? Does NCEES/any other authority address this issue anywhere?
> 
> I have been waiting so long for this I really want to do it!



My friend (longtime Professional Surveyor) owns a firm. He passed the PE exam and put PE next to his name on the company website. But after checking with his lawyer, he was advised to remove it until his # was issued. According to his counsel, competitors could cause problems for him and the company if they raised a fuss about (by complaining to the Board or whatever).


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## Brianne (Jan 28, 2008)

I have no problem adding PE to my e-mail signature, etc.

Directly from my letter from the State of California:

"This letter will serve as temporary evidence that you now hold a valid license as a Professional Civil Engineer."

I think that sounds good enough to me.


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