# I can't sell my house!



## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

I'm not really expecting any great revelations here. Just blowing off some steam I guess. We've had our house on the market since the end of January and can't seem to get rid of it. The bad thing is, I know what the problems are, but can't do anything about them: the floor plan is weird and it's in the middle of nowhere. We have had numerous phone calls and showed it around 20 times, but I haven't once discussed price with anyone and haven't had one call back. The 9 acres is beautiful and the house is in good shape, just a little weird and 25 minutes from civilization. I have it in 3 places on the internet, 2 newspapers and signs at road(s). The only thing we haven't done is list with a realtor, but there are several (nice) houses around me that are listed with a realtor and have been on the market longer than me.

Like I said just blowing off steam...


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 27, 2012)

Links?


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## snickerd3 (Jun 27, 2012)

FSBO can scare people away if they themselves are working with a buying agent...its the fear you wont give the buying agent their share. Many realestate folks don't show FSBO to their clients.

My neighbors house has been on the market for over a 1.5 yrs. Nice big house with LOTS of the land 5 acres grass and another 8 or so of forest. they took the forest part out of the listing several months ago to lower the price and to get people back looking at it. The forest acres scared several potential buyers away.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 27, 2012)

We were coming from several hrs away during this last move so we went with a buying agent to set up day long appoinments to view houses. The house we bought was a FSBO and our agent didn't mention it to us. We were actually going to be taking a second look on a smaller house in the next town over that we were going to make an offer on to live in while we looked for land to build on. We got to town a little early and made another sweep of the nicer houses and there was the house we ended up buying as FSBO which wasn't listed when we first started looking several months prior. They were willing to give our agent her fees fromt he sale.


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## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Links?


Sure. Why not? Heres the photobucket link.

http://s1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg611/badal38257/Home%20in%20Cunningham%20KY/


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## roadwreck (Jun 27, 2012)

Very nice piece of property. The layout does seem a little quirky. One thing I noticed right away was that your kitchen work triangle is a little unorthodox. How well do you feel the kitchen layout works with the table right in the middle of that work triangle?


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## engineergurl (Jun 27, 2012)

I did notice the fridge placement... but short of remodeling the kitchen, that seems to be the only thing... very nice place...

how handy are you? you could solve the layout problem with a couple of weekends of minor work.... then it wouldn't be intimidating to a buyer thinking they would have to tackle it after they purchase it...


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 27, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> FSBO can scare people away if they themselves are working with a buying agent...its the fear you wont give the buying agent their share.


Depends on the market.

We bought our house FSBO, and most homes around here go that route and sell quickly. The homes listed by agents easily stay on the market 50-100% longer because of the higher prices due to agent costs.

Badal, I really liked the property, but I have a feeling the berm coming up the sides of the house is probably not desirable to the vast number of potential buyers. Have you tried putting links on some of the survivalists/preppers sites? That seems to be what a large majority of them are looking for.


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## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

The frig was originally right beside the sink, which meant you had to walk around it when coming down the stairs (that really sucked). You're right the kitchen is crowded, but there really is nowhere else for the table or frig to go. I am fairly handy and curious as to how you think the kitchen could be made better. The real problem is that the main entrance is to the upstairs which really has nothing to enter into except a hallway and stairwell. Not to mention, to get to the main living area you have to walk down the stairs and through the kitchen. I always get a really weird reaction from people when they first walk in, "Oh sooooo the living room is downstairs, huh?". The earth berm part is great for energy usage, not so great for resale, which the original owners didn't consider at all.


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## roadwreck (Jun 27, 2012)

Well I was going to say that the fridge would probably be better situated at the end of the counter near the sink (where the plant is) but it sounds like there are other issues with that layout which don't come across in the pictures.

Perhaps you need to market the home as extremely energy efficient. Can you get it LEED certified?


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## snickerd3 (Jun 27, 2012)

Badal

What made the house attractive you and the family when you bought it? Maybe emphasis those points.


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 27, 2012)

^ my thoughts exactly...


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## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

LEED certification lusone:

The fact that it was not a trailor, in our price range and where we wanted to live is why we bought it. I never have liked the layout or style. I guess I could bring attention to the fact that it is not a trailor.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 27, 2012)

badal said:


> LEED certification lusone:
> 
> The fact that it was not a trailor, in our price range and where we wanted to live is why we bought it. I never have liked the layout or style. I guess I could bring attention to the fact that it is not a trailor.


I know how you feel. With our basement remodel this summer/fall, that will be the last room getting a near total facelift to make the house likeable. We love the land and neighborhood.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 27, 2012)

badal said:


> LEED certification lusone:


If it costs any money, i wouldn't waste time attaining it. It hasn't proven to be a selling point at all in the residential market here.

Developers have started cutsey named programs for houses with energy star appliances and stuff. Too new to evaluate how that goes over, but LEED went over like a lead balloon.


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## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

My remark was intended as sarcasm. Noone in the entirety of West Kentucky would know what LEED is if I did get it certified. I'm pretty sure I'm the only LEED AP within 100 miles.


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## engineergurl (Jun 27, 2012)

roadwreck said:


> Well I was going to say that the fridge would probably be better situated at the end of the counter near the sink (where the plant is) but it sounds like there are other issues with that layout which don't come across in the pictures.
> 
> Perhaps you need to market the home as extremely energy efficient. Can you get it LEED certified?


This is what I was thinking, but I guess that's out...


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## willsee (Jun 27, 2012)

badal said:


> My remark was intended as sarcasm. Noone in the entirety of West Kentucky would know what LEED is if I did get it certified. I'm pretty sure I'm the only LEED AP within 100 miles.


Hey now

We have LEED professionals in our building and only 23 miles from Cunningham. I just bought a house in town (well waiting for closing) and that is too far out for me. I need a Wal-mart within 10 mins of my house.


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## goodal (Jun 27, 2012)

That remark was also sarcasm. It's not too late to abandon your town house and come live in the country. Just sayin...


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## Supe (Jun 27, 2012)

Have you considered bringing in someone to stage the home? After getting peeks of paint colors, etc. during some remodeling work, I can say that the person who staged the house I bought did a great job making it look much bigger than it was, and looking modern without being overly trendy. Same went for the photographer who did the realty photos - a fish eye lens can make a room look HUGE, which at least entices potential buyers in.


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## pbrme (Jun 27, 2012)

badal said:


> That remark was also sarcasm. It's not too late to abandon your town house and come live in the country. Just sayin...


If the price was right, and I lived in your area, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Shop, Garage, pond, acres... the wife would probably have a working farm.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 27, 2012)

If you were closer to Louisville KY, my cousin would jump on it for the same reasons PBRme listed. They are organic chicken farmers that just got kicked off the land they rented.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 28, 2012)

pbrme said:


> badal said:
> 
> 
> > That remark was also sarcasm. It's not too late to abandon your town house and come live in the country. Just sayin...
> ...


Ditto. That's a sweet property.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 28, 2012)

I would also highlight your average monthly heating/cooling costs.

This type of home in Oregon wouldn't be a problem to sell -if you accentuated the Energy Saving features. There is a large market for green/funky/different homes..., but maybe Kentucky isn't ready for that.

You just need to find the right buyer I suppose.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 28, 2012)

I would also try to de-clutter the house. The outside and landscaping is PERFECT. Now make the interior follow that trend.

Not that you have too much furniture, but get a storage unit and leave out only the chairs/tables/couches that are absolutely needed.

It really makes a difference in how big the home shows. The big sectional is nice for watching football on Sunday, but takes up a lot of space. Go to a professional open house and see how much furniture is in a model home and try and copy that style.

Nothing wrong with the red in the kitchen, but a more neutral color would show better. Get rid of the stand in the kitchen with the microwave too if you can.

Make it the home look clean, well kept up and look sort of generic, so people can imagine themselves living there. Take down the family photos and just have a few simple wall hangings. Your family (I am sure) is nice, but you are only reminding someone that this isn't their home.

Women are huge deciders on homes, women like closet storage, nice bathrooms, and well equip'd kitchens. It is all relative to the price point, but if you do any upgrades/remodels try to hit these points.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 29, 2012)

Kephart's right about the red in the kitchen. A couple houses we looked at red rooms were deal killers.


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## goodal (Jun 29, 2012)

We thought about repainting the kitchen/living room, but my wife said she had too much sweat in the red to change it (5 coats plus primer). She did repaint the boys bedroom and bathroom. I think the pics show a mural in the bedroom and yellow walls in the bathroom. They are both much more neutral now.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 29, 2012)

Repainting over a dark color like red is a PITA and why it is a deal killer for a lot of folks.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jul 2, 2012)

Some of the newer interior paints have paint+primer and they cover unbelievably well. They are quite expensive, but I won't use anything else now, because I really hate painting.

Just wipe the walls down with TSP, mask off, and go to work.

I think it was some Behr paint plus primer and -stick with the same sheen and it should cover fine.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 2, 2012)

^ they don't make the good TSP stuff anymore...it is a modified formula that they sell now


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## Master slacker (Jul 2, 2012)

I'd have no problem painting over red paint. Hell, throwing down one (maybe two) quick-n-dirty primer coats is nothing in my book.


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## goodal (Aug 28, 2012)

After nearly 30 showings, we finally had a call back. They seemed very sincere and even said "We are super interested." They looked at it two times and said he would call with an offer on Monday. He actually called and after asking if I would come off my asking price (I said I would but not much, I've told everyone else no), he said we were too far apart and essentially said goodbye. So being the analytical engineer I am, I've disected this many times trying to make sense of it and second guessing myself.

Questions are:

1) Why would they seriously look at a house they couldn't afford?

2) Why wouldn't he go ahead and give me a number?

3) Why act so interested if he couldnt "get close" with a number?

4) Can I actually reduce my asking price? (I can't and still have enough for the 20% on the house we want)

So this leaves the following options:

1) He is messing with me to try to drop the price.

2) He found something he didnt like or something that would cost alot to fix.

3) He expected me to come off my price alot.

Probably nothing new, but I've only sold one other place and it was super easy to sell.


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## snickerd3 (Aug 28, 2012)

The house has been for sale for awhile...he was seeing how desparate you were desparate to sell.


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## snickerd3 (Aug 28, 2012)

If you were closer to Louisville, my cousin would jump at your house in a heart beat...it has everything they need for their business and they are the type of people to adjust to odd layouts with no trouble. They got kicked off their farm earlier this year and are still looking for a place to restart the farm...family drama.


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## Capt Worley PE (Aug 28, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> The house has been for sale for awhile...he was seeing how desparate you were desparate to sell.


Bingo.

The worst thing you're gonna do is say no.


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## pbrme (Aug 28, 2012)

Only have one house purchase under my belt, but negotiated to a price 3% lower than what they were asking (my starting offer was 6.5% lower than the asking price). Sometimes just making an offer (albeit a low one) still sends the message that your a serious buyer. Receiving an offer opens the doors to negotiation, and negotiation should make both parties emerge feeling happy. If he didn't even make an offer, than I don't think he was "serious" in this sense. Asking someone if they'd be willing to move on a price is for used cars or yard sales. Making an offer in writing, sends a statement.


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## MA_PE (Aug 28, 2012)

^ agreed. Badal are you using a realtor or selling on your own? I think all realtors would encourage a perspective buyer to present a formal offer for the owner to either accept, flat out reject, or counter on. I'm not a fan of this preliminary verbal negotiation and it takes the spontenaeity out of the decision. Who knows? If you had a written commitment on an offical offer, you and Mrs. Badal could talk about whether or not you want to take it and move on. Similarly, if the buyer had a committed response number to his firm price, he could also take some time to think about it.

Like pbrme said verbal haggling is reserved for lesser purchases.


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## goodal (Sep 18, 2012)

Ok, 3 weeks later, he wanted to pay for an appraisal, knowing up front that I did not commit to abiding by it. We got the appraisal back in and it shows the house being worth $10k under what i told him was my bottom dollar. He offered $2k less than the appraised value. If I accept, I won't have the 20% down for the house we want to buy right away. I will have enough after the year is up to put with the proceeds from the house for 20% down, but I'm not sure how to get to the end of the year. Could I do something like a construction loan and after 3-4 months close it out? Or some sort of 1 year note and refi for a 30 year in january? Of course I am going to talk to a banker or two about this, just wanted ya'lls input.


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## Supe (Sep 18, 2012)

Why do you need 20% down? Put down a bit less, pay PMI if need be, and then when you hit your 20% you're good to go. If you've been stagnant for this long, $2k is a drop in the bucket, especially if you're chipping in on closing costs. He's offering you more than the appraised value in a down market, take the money and run!


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## pbrme (Sep 18, 2012)

^ +1 on the PMI. So you bring 15% now and by the time the paperwork is over and the end of the year comes dump the rest on and eliminate PMI. Sure, the mortgage payments would be higher by only putting 15% and not the 20% but what's the rule..?... payments go down $10 for every $1000 off the principle..?...


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## cdcengineer (Sep 18, 2012)

Looks like the guy offered $12k less than Badal's bottom dollar number. The appraisal was $10k lower than his bottom and the guy offered $2k less than that. That's a bit more than he may want to drop. But, if the appraised value is what this guy needs to finance, than you may not be able to get any more than the appraised value. He hasn't even tried to beat you down following items he finds during inspection. That might even make it tougher.

Good Luck


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## Supe (Sep 19, 2012)

cdcengineer said:


> Looks like the guy offered $12k less than Badal's bottom dollar number. The appraisal was $10k lower than his bottom and the guy offered $2k less than that. That's a bit more than he may want to drop. But, if the appraised value is what this guy needs to finance, than you may not be able to get any more than the appraised value. He hasn't even tried to beat you down following items he finds during inspection. That might even make it tougher.
> 
> Good Luck


I stand corrected, I initially read that as he went $2k under Badal's asking price. But I agree on that statement - many lenders will not finance a loan that exceeds the appraised value. Not to mention, most buyers don't want to go into a situation upside down, and I'm not sure how rules for LTV loans, etc, would apply in the case of a new purchase as opposed to refinancing.


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## willsee (Sep 19, 2012)

The buyer is probably not financing the whole thing.

If it were me I would take the offer. You have a different house that appeals to a small market of people and hopefully this is a legit offer from a legit buyer. I would sell and move on with my life.

When we were buying a house here we made an offer on a home that was selling for 20k MORE than the appraised value and 30k MORE than what the house sold for right across the street. We offered fair market value (and then some) but the seller didn't budge. We moved on and bought another house and that guy is still trying to sell his.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 19, 2012)

The appraisal really ties your hands on this one.

If the buyer is using FHA, they absolutely will not finance anything above the appraised value. Then, depending on how much $ the buyer has available for a down payment, he will also be limited on how much he can offer.

The absolutely highest LTV any bank will finance is 96.5% through an FHA loan. So, if it appraises for $400k, the most he could finance is $386k. Then, if he only has $12k for a down payment, he may be forced to offer $398 so he could still hit the LTV numbers (hence the $2k under appraised value offer).

I think your best case scenario is to counter with the amount of the appraised value. The only other option would be to hire another appraisal company and hope it comes in higher.

It does put you in a tight spot with your money down situation, but there are options where the bank will finance a higher rate if you pay mortgage insurance. I'm not going to lie, mortgage insurance is an expensive rip-off. You end up spending thousands of dollars up front, then hundreds of dollars each month, just so the bank is protected. I know current FHA insurance rates are to the tune of 1.2% up front and 1.2% per year (depending on the LTV it can be a little higher or lower), which equates to $1200 up front and $100/month for every $100k financed.

I'm not a familiar with non-FHA loans as that's all I've dealt with recently (including my current refinance).


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## snickerd3 (Sep 19, 2012)

even mortgage insurance varies by banking institution though...it isn't always you reach 20% you are done. Some are 20% PLUS a min of 2 yrs...have several friends with this scenario. There are on the hook for MI payments for 2 yrs even if they paid the $ to reach 20% a month after they signed the bottom line.


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## snickerd3 (Sep 19, 2012)

I do agree with the dex that the appraisal puts a kink in things.


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## Capt Worley PE (Sep 19, 2012)

What Dex and Snick said.

Bottom line: Buyer doesn't really care what you want, only what the house is worth.

Methinks you might better rethink the finacing on the new home side and let this one go for less than you want.

my $0.02.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 19, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> even mortgage insurance varies by banking institution though...it isn't always you reach 20% you are done. Some are 20% PLUS a min of 2 yrs...have several friends with this scenario. There are on the hook for MI payments for 2 yrs even if they paid the $ to reach 20% a month after they signed the bottom line.


Yep. FHA says you have to pay a minimum of 5 years. However, after the 4th year you can have the house re-appraised (on your own dime) and if it comes in higher, then they can waive the 5th year. Also, FHA says you owe until the LTV is below 78%, not 80.

These are set by the FHA, not the bank. But if you don't have an FHA loan, then you default to whatever rules the bank sets.


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## willsee (Sep 19, 2012)

I got a conventional with 3% down and I have to pay PMI until the house reaches 80% of the original purchase price, not the appraised value.


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## Supe (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow, that sucks! I was (briefly) looking into PMI, and my lender said I would have been off the hook when I hit 20%, no other stipulations.


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## goodal (Sep 19, 2012)

I was just told it had to be on there for a year with the lender Im talking to.


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## pbrme (Sep 19, 2012)

My PMI is based on a LTV of 80%. I'm getting ready to refinance, as the IR is a whole point lower than when I bought. So if the new appraised value is higher, than that's instant equity for me.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 19, 2012)

pbrme said:


> My PMI is based on a LTV of 80%. I'm getting ready to refinance, as the IR is a whole point lower than when I bought. So if the new appraised value is higher, than that's instant equity for me.


Yep. I am in the process of refinancing as well. I'm looking to drop 3/4 of a point. We are having it appraised today, and we're hoping it appraises for higher so that it puts us closer to the 78% mark. Plus, if it appraises for $5k more than what it originally appraised for last year, our PMI rate drops by a tenth of a percent.


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## goodal (Nov 6, 2012)

Well I guess I was wrong. I CAN sell my house. We closed on ours a couple weeks ago and our future house last week. I got a 3.25% APR on a 30yr loan. As long as I keep getting a paycheck,I dont think I could have timed that any better. :bananapowerslide: :bananapowerslide:


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 6, 2012)

Congrats, badal!


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## MA_PE (Nov 6, 2012)

congrats badal. good luck in the new home.


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## Ble_PE (Nov 6, 2012)

Good to hear, badal. Congrats!


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 6, 2012)

Awesome news!!


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## FLBuff PE (Nov 6, 2012)

Glad to hear it, man! The house next door to us is closing today, and many of the houses in my neighborhood are starting to sell, for about asking price or just under. Granted, asking price is a LOT less than it was in '08, but I think the asking price is more in line with what it should have been all along.


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## pbrme (Nov 6, 2012)

WooHoo, that's great news! Congrats man!

Time to celebrate :beerchug:


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 6, 2012)

Great news badal! :thumbs:


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## snickerd3 (Nov 6, 2012)

yeah!!!


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