# Ebola is here, Dallas, Texas



## Road Guy (Sep 30, 2014)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/30/health/ebola-us/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

You would think some type of test or isolation needs to be implemented for people traveling from these areas to the US..

I can hear the sound of the wife quitting here ICU job in the background somewhere.. maybe that boring school nurse gig isn't so bad afterall...


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## Supe (Sep 30, 2014)

[No message]


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 30, 2014)

Probably the closest thing to a "zombie" outbreak.

Good lord this could turn into a real epidemic. Remember the movie Outbreak?


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## Dleg (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm thinking that everyone and anyone travelling from affected countries in Africa need to be quarantined for 21 days, to give time for symptoms to appear.

What a nightmare - let's hope that the experimental vaccines and treatments being used now turn out to be effective and can be made available soon.

My doomsday prediction: this will be stopped but only after radical countermeasures including travel bans and quarantine laws, which will trigger another worldwide recession.


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## NJmike PE (Sep 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> Probably the closest thing to a "zombie" outbreak.
> 
> Good lord this could turn into a real epidemic.  Remember the movie Outbreak?


Damn jimbo and that st00pid monkey


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## Road Guy (Sep 30, 2014)

Only good that can come of this is we all retreat to the mtns red dawn style and no longer have to work for the man every day....


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## NJmike PE (Sep 30, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> Only good that can come of this is we all retreat to the mtns red dawn style and no longer have to work for the man every day....


When do we leave?


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## Road Guy (Sep 30, 2014)

We've got to go by Roberts dads gas station / sporting goods store first to get supplies....


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 30, 2014)

We're going to need a rugged 4x4 pick-up truck too. Maybe Bly could oblige?


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 30, 2014)

http://gizmodo.com/why-you-shouldnt-freak-out-about-ebola-patients-coming-1614788513/1640968555/+sarahzhang?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&amp;utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&amp;utm_medium=socialflow


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## Dleg (Oct 1, 2014)

Here's a pretty positive story on the progress being made on vaccines and treatment drugs:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/09/30/352505596/tests-of-new-ebola-drugs-could-take-place-as-early-as-november


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## Ble_PE (Oct 1, 2014)

^My hope is that this leads to drugs that will cure and hopefully vaccinate against this terrible disease. Until then, I believe that everyone traveling to that area should be quarantined just like you suggested dleg. I'm hopeful that the US can prevent the spread of this disease here.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm surprised that there weren't already travel restrictions for people coming from these areas. It's like someone is sleeping in the wheel house.


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## goodal (Oct 1, 2014)

Not asleep. Golfing.


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## engineergurl (Oct 1, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > Only good that can come of this is we all retreat to the mtns red dawn style and no longer have to work for the man every day....
> ...




why do you need to leave to do this?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 1, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > Road Guy said:
> ...


better to stay in groups. join powers.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 1, 2014)

I know they said the chances for contagious while on the plane were small, but hopefully the figured out what plane it was gave it a big ass sanitizing enema.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 1, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> I know they said the chances for contagious while on the plane were small, but hopefully the figured out what plane it was gave it a big ass sanitizing enema.









they are in the process of rectifying the problem now.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 1, 2014)

That works too!


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 1, 2014)

21 day incubation period and a 95% mortality rate. That is a nasty virus....wow.


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## goodal (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm gonna go cancel my flight to Liberia now.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 1, 2014)




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## snickerd3 (Oct 1, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> 21 day incubation period and a 95% mortality rate. That is a nasty virus....wow.


i guess it depends on where you read. some artciles are saying this episode is leaning more towards a 50-60% survival rate.


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## Road Guy (Oct 1, 2014)

If you work at a hospital , needle pricks, vomiting, diarrhea full of blood etc. those things happen on a daily if not hourly basis...

There are lots of opportunities to spread this disease


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 1, 2014)

You are married with kids, touching no longer exists...


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## NJmike PE (Oct 1, 2014)

Dexman PE said:


> You are married with kids, touching no longer exists...


this

EDIT: unless it involves a stripper


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## Road Guy (Oct 1, 2014)

Did you not include the phrase "honor and obey your husband in your marriage vows?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 1, 2014)

I didn't. I was quite shy 10 years ago. :facepalm:


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## Supe (Oct 1, 2014)

Honor? I wasn't even near her!


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 1, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> Did you not include the phrase "honor and obey your husband in your marriage vows?


But Mrs Dex also included the same in her vows...


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## Road Guy (Oct 1, 2014)

no, see its not supposed to work that way..


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 1, 2014)

I will let you tell Mrs Dex then.


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## envirotex (Oct 1, 2014)

As I am currently sitting in an airport...I would say that there is plenty of vomit, diarrhea, and blood here. Who can say that they never have been on a flight where someone has vomited. Do you know who sat in the seat before you?

That being said, I think it's pretty hard to catch. The people who are getting sick are aid workers who are in direct contact with those who are very ill.


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## Road Guy (Oct 1, 2014)

If it gets out of hand It will kill the people who work in our hospitals first.. Most hospitals are just not prepared for that kind of stuff....I hope they require people to admit where they have travelled, of course there are hipaa rules that protect the patients but not their nurses and doctors...


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## Dleg (Oct 2, 2014)

ON the brighter side, it might make getting into medical school a little easier, what with all those dead doctors to replace.


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## envirotex (Oct 2, 2014)

Way to see the advantages, Dleg. I knew there was a reason I voted for you in the last election.


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## roadwreck (Oct 2, 2014)

All Hail President Dleg!


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## Road Guy (Oct 2, 2014)

sounds like this hospital made a ton of mistakes...

http://www.dallasnews.com/


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## roadwreck (Oct 2, 2014)

yup, we're doomed.


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## engineergurl (Oct 2, 2014)

y'all got your filtration masks and tyveck suits yet?


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## Road Guy (Oct 2, 2014)

I don't think you need a filtration mask as much as you do some type of full face shield to keep the vomit splatter from getting into your nose, eyes, mouth..

you all jest but you don't know how many times my wife has come home wearing different scrubs because the ones she wore to work have been thrown up on (or worse, believe me there is worse)

I told her this would be a good time for her to look for one of those easy nurse gigs like NICU or something


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## Ble_PE (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm hoping that with this current case that we have here and the mistakes that were made leading up to his diagnosis, we won't be having nurses or doctors caring for people in just scrubs when they are to the point of vomiting and bleeding due to ebola. They should be in full hazmat suits by that point. Of course, you never know what may happen though and my prayers go out to anyone that is in the medical field (especially hospitals) right now.


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## roadwreck (Oct 2, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> you all jest but you don't know how many times my wife has come home wearing different scrubs because the ones she wore to work have been thrown up on (or worse, believe me there is worse)


Oh I've heard the horror stories, my Sister-in-law is a nurse in an ER. It makes me very very happy that I spend most of my day in a cube farm avoiding any form of human contact.


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## iwire (Oct 2, 2014)

Sounds a like scene from Contagion ...we are all screwed, he has a layover in Dulles, VA and i am only 15 miles away!!!...

Time to buy water, guns, a lot ammos, MRE and a reinforced SUV..


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## snickerd3 (Oct 3, 2014)

not sure where i found the article but the companies working on ebola vaccines are using tobacco plants as the growing medium.


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## Dleg (Oct 3, 2014)

Some good perspective here:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola

Ebola is certainly very scary, but "seriously", we as a society will choose to listen to idiot celebrities instead of medical professionals wen it comes to preventing much more contagious diseases like measles.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 4, 2014)

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/CDC-Officials-to-Meet-Newark-Plane-Carrying-Sick-Passenger--278121131.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand


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## NJmike PE (Oct 4, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/CDC-Officials-to-Meet-Newark-Plane-Carrying-Sick-Passenger--278121131.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand


Vomiting probably not due to Ebola. We are the armpit of the East Coast so it's probably the stank


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 4, 2014)




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## Road Guy (Oct 6, 2014)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920

Nurse treating patient infected with the ebola virus....

the CDC lists this disease as a "containment" level threat, which calls for only your typical mask and gloves, yet why is everyone else wearing the full Bio Hazard suits? something is a miss..


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## matt267 PE (Oct 6, 2014)

Is the government really this f'ed up?


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## snickerd3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920
> 
> Nurse treating patient infected with the ebola virus....
> 
> the CDC lists this disease as a "containment" level threat, which calls for only your typical mask and gloves, yet why is everyone else wearing the full Bio Hazard suits? something is a miss..


wouldn't you feel safer in full bio hazard suit? I wouldn't help in just paper mask and gloves


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## Dleg (Oct 6, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29514920
> 
> Nurse treating patient infected with the ebola virus....
> 
> the CDC lists this disease as a "containment" level threat, which calls for only your typical mask and gloves, yet why is everyone else wearing the full Bio Hazard suits? something is a miss..


An interesting thing in that article - ANOTHER experimental Ebola drug is being tested. There are quite a few of them now, maybe one or more will turn out to be effective.

One thing that has me a little nervous is CDC Director Thomas Frieden's statement on Fox news today, when asked what the CDC is doing, "Just wait, you will see over the next few days". Hmmmm.....


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## Road Guy (Oct 6, 2014)

snick- that's what the wife was saying, she looked up what level protecting the CDC says is required its not what they are actually wearing... I think it just goes to show they are saying one thing and doing another...


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## envirotex (Oct 6, 2014)

matt267 said:


> Is the government really this f'ed up?


Did you really say that out loud?

Maybe you were being facetious?


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## Dark Knight (Oct 6, 2014)

matt267 said:


> Is the government really this f'ed up?


It is what govs do...lie.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 8, 2014)

well the dude in texas died this morning. so if the GF and family don't start showing sympotoms, technically 21 days from body disposal would be the end of the issue in texas


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## engineergurl (Oct 8, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> well the dude in texas died this morning. so if the GF and family don't start showing sympotoms, technically 21 days from body disposal would be the end of the issue in texas




except if he sneezed on someone at the airport


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## snickerd3 (Oct 8, 2014)

they would still fall in line approx with the GF timeline though.


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## engineergurl (Oct 8, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> they would still fall in line approx with the GF timeline though.




The same timeline, but they very well might not know they have been exposed which makes it slightly more of a larger issue than just observing one family


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## Dleg (Oct 9, 2014)

Really interesting op-ed on CNN about wildlife being the main reservoir for many deadly, emerging diseases (not just Ebola), and policies to avoid future outbreaks:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/09/opinion/osofsky-ebola-wildlife/index.html?hpt=hp_c1



> If alternative, safe sources of nutrition can be made practically and reliably available, people should simply stop eating bats and primates. This is not the voice of conservation speaking here; it's the voice of public health and common sense.
> 
> Knowing that bats are uniquely positioned in the animal kingdom as veritable virus factories, we need to know where people rely on access to bats as a food source. There are such places in the world, but there are likely as many if not more locales where bats are a preferred food, but not an essential one.
> 
> ...


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## Road Guy (Oct 10, 2014)

Who the hell eats a bat?


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## Dleg (Oct 10, 2014)

Welcome to the third world. I sent this article to a friend with the US Fish and Wildlife Service - even here in a (distant) US territory, some bats are considered a delicacy. I figured maybe she could have some better luck trying to protect the Marianas Fruit Bat if the locals are afraid of catching Ebola. Otherwise, they could care less about the USFWS. They love them so much they cook them and eat them with all the fur on them, because they like the smell and taste (the bats piss themselves all the time because they are hanging upside down).


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## NJmike PE (Oct 10, 2014)




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## matt267 PE (Oct 10, 2014)

I wonder if you can board a plane with a HAZMAT suit?

This photo is from a news story about some jack ass saying he has ebola while in an airplane.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/26753753/man-disrupts-flight-with-ebola-comment


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## NJmike PE (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah I saw that. What a dipshit. The least he could have done was waited for April 1st to do it.


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 10, 2014)

The ebola getting started because somebody ate a bat. I think I read that in this thread, or at least I read it in an article somewhere, but I thought Dleg posted about it too, anyway...

WTF!!! Who the fuck eats bats!


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## Road Guy (Oct 10, 2014)

4033 dead from Ebola in 7 months. 233 of them were Health care workers.....


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 10, 2014)

I guess Ozzie Osbourne ate a bat, or at least bit it's head off once. Maybe that's what happened to his eyes, he got ebola in them.


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## Road Guy (Oct 13, 2014)

Did you see where the Dallas Hospital mgmt threw the nurse under the bus that also now has Ebola? Failed to follow protocol or some BS.. Id like to see some of these stuffed suits follow the protocol..

Wife pointed out that right now in the US they are at a 1:1 ratio of (Infected Ebola:Infected Aid worker) ```````` (which aint good)

I am sure John Stewart told everyone there is no problem, but we are not prepared for anything like this. .or much of anything on US soil for the last 20 years or so..


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## DanHalen (Oct 13, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> Did you see where the Dallas Hospital mgmt threw the nurse under the bus that also now has Ebola? Failed to follow protocol or some BS.. Id like to see some of these stuffed suits follow the protocol..




That's the kind of shit that drove my wife out of nursing. We need to restrict flights from West Africa and quarantine people who are coming in to this country that "may" have Ebola as dleg suggested.


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## Road Guy (Oct 13, 2014)

actually my bad it was the CDC Director, another one of Obama's "The Buck Doesn't Stop Here" guys..


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## engineergurl (Oct 14, 2014)

Looks like they isolated a person here. CDC "alternative criteria" was met, whatever that means.


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## Road Guy (Oct 14, 2014)

County that treated the Emory Ebola Patients threatened to disconnect them from the sewer...

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2014/10/14/dekalb-county-threatened-to-cut-emory-sewer-lines-over-ebola-virus/


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## Dleg (Oct 14, 2014)

^These fears are understandable. I have wondered about this myself, and had several conversations with colleagues about it. Do you chlorinate the hospital waste stream? And if so, how do you avoid killing off the treatment process? These are legitimate questions and the CDC needs to remember that there is a hell of a lot more to public health than just clinical care... I fear this aspect of public health (sanitary engineering and environmental health) has been all but forgotten over the past few years in government. If we are indeed putting up a "whole government response" to the Ebola epidemic, then we should be seeing guidance from CDC (as well as EPA and related agencies) on ALL aspects of the treatment train, including the disposal and treatment of ALL wastes. Every utility and landfill in the country needs to be contacted and trained, in addition to contractors and other workers who come into contact with wastes. The risks are NOT limited to nurses (although they obviously are at the highest risk). Yellow fever, malaria, cholera, and so on, were defeated by good sanitation and careful engineering as much as they were by medicine. I doubt Ebola is any different, in that respect.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 14, 2014)

^ from what I've read, ebola doesn't live long in wastewater.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 14, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> Did you see where the Dallas Hospital mgmt threw the nurse under the bus that also now has Ebola? Failed to follow protocol or some BS.. Id like to see some of these stuffed suits follow the protocol..
> 
> Wife pointed out that right now in the US they are at a 1:1 ratio of (Infected Ebola:Infected Aid worker) ```````` (which aint good)
> 
> I am sure John Stewart told everyone there is no problem, but we are not prepared for anything like this. .or much of anything on US soil for the last 20 years or so..


Mrs Dex and I discussed this a bit last night. There are strict protocol in place anytime there is a "containment" requirement (yes, there are other diseases out there besides ebola that need contained), but you have to remember that the staff responsible for care are human. All it takes is an itchy nose that you rub with the back of your hand without thinking about it. You don't even know you did it. Another common issue Mrs Dex told me about is that it's common for nurses to strip off their containment gowns, gloves, masks, etc and when they try to put it in the trash find the can is full so they will use their foot to compress the trash a bit to allow room. No one thinks about what's on the bottom of their shoes.


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## Road Guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Also, All hospitals have protocols, but most all hospitals suffer from poor management and do little training (for something like this)coupled with very high turnover.. Doesn't really provide a good formula...

For example:

If you were in the military prior to the first gulf war, you learned to put on your chemical suit MOPP gear blindfolded, you practiced 20 times a day. Your life depended on learning out to put it on &amp; take it off... My wife polled her friends working in various hospitals(large ones) and no one is doing any training / implementation of whatever their hospital is...


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## engineergurl (Oct 14, 2014)

Your dating yourself... no more 'MOPP' levels... JLIST now


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## Road Guy (Oct 14, 2014)

We don't even need protective gear since Obama lied about chemical weapons!!!!!!


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## NJmike PE (Oct 14, 2014)

Did someone say my name?


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## Dleg (Oct 14, 2014)

matt267 said:


> ^ from what I've read, ebola doesn't live long in wastewater.




It lives long enough that it will be concern for sewer workers. Even on surfaces, it can last "a few hours", and there are documented studies that it can last much longer in bulk wastes (feces, vomit). This likely means that the virus stays viable all the way to the treatment plant.

(technically we should not say that the virus "lives" since it is not a living thing. More accurate to say that it stays viable or active)


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## Dleg (Oct 15, 2014)

Alright, I did a little more looking into this, since this is partially my job after all, and here is some more info (and my commentary):

FIRST COMMENT: I should not have had to go digging for this information! It should be available somewhere - CDC, EPA, one of the professional organizations.... but no, I had to Google it and dig through a lot of unrelated information to find it.

From the CDC interim guidance on environmental infection control for ebola in hospitals:



> 5. Is it safe for Ebola patients to use the bathroom?
> Yes. Sanitary sewers may be used for the safe disposal of patient waste. Additionally, sewage handling processes (e.g., anaerobic digestion, composting, and disinfection) in the United States are designed to inactivate infectious agents.


And from CDC interim guidance on ebola lab wastes:



> For equipment that drains directly into the sewer system, the United States sanitary sewer system handling processes (e.g., anaerobic digestion, composting, disinfection) are designed to safely inactivate infectious agents.


Yeah but ... those treatment processes occur after miles of gravity sewer collection system and various processes that could expose workers or even the public, such as construction operations or the aerosolization from pumps and the aerators at wastewater treatment plants... The specific processes they list show that the person writing this is not an engineer... disinfection occurs at the end of the treatment process, and not even at every plant. Digestion occurs with only a portion of the activated sludge, at the tail end of treatment, after the sewage is several days to weeks old (but again not even with every plant). Composting even later, and only at selected facilities. Please, at least get an engineer to review this, or better yet, write it! Reach out to the WEF or ASCE, and ask them to put their committees to work on it - you will get a much better answer than from some environmental health specialist at the CDC.

In fact, let's see if either ASCE or WEF has anything to say about it:

ASCE: nothing. WEF: nothing. AWWA: nothing.

EPA? Also nothing that I could find.

The only things I can find on the subject are news articles (not a good source of engineering information) and forum posts (maybe even less so). Here's something recent from the Wall Street Journal, again hanging its hat on the CDC guidance above (and retracting the Atlanta / Emory denial story):



> Dr. Ribner said someone from the county sewage-management department told him the department would disconnect Emory from the sewage system if the hospital planned to discharge waste that contained Ebola virus into the sewers, despite guidance from the CDC that sanitary sewers can safely accommodate patient waste.
> 
> Dr. Ribner said Emory disinfected all liquid waste from the patients with bleach before discharging it into the sewage system.
> 
> A spokesman for the DeKalb County Department of Watershed Management said: “At no point did we say we would disconnect the hospital from public sewage lines. Early on, there was a preliminary call between our watershed director and the CDC regarding protocols for planning and community-awareness purposes.”


And also note that the hospital took the additional step of disinfecting with bleach before discharge - how? Did they give the patient a bottle of bleach to pour in the toilet prior to flushing? There's no other way, as far as I know, to ensure that would happen in an otherwise large and interconnected hospital sewer system. Plus, this indicates that they were not comfortable following the CDC guidelines.

From the internet forum world, self-identified "experts" on Reddit responded to questions, which were then also picked up by the news media, such as this one:



> *Could this spread through a sewer system?*
> 
> The answer is no. This is not going to happen. Enveloped viruses like Ebola are not hardy enough to survive in the sewer system. In addition to their fragility, there is a tremendous dilution factor. The available evidence supports the idea that infection is only by direct contact with body fluids of an infected person.


OK - that actually sounds like a reasonable and reassuring answer, but Reddit is not the CDC and this could just be some crackpot making stuff up.

The bottom line is that the only official guidance on this is a one-liner from the CDC that appears to have been written by someone who is not very familiar with wastewater systems - which means maybe not even an engineer. We also have (probably) scientists who know something about viruses saying that the virus will not survive for long in a sewer environment. Fine. But it will survive for some time - otherwise you could not get sick from being in contact with an infected person's bodily fluids. So clearly there must be some point at which the sewage is not safe. Anyone can catch any number of viral diseases from sewage, like hepatitis - I am not even allowed to work around sewage until I get all my hepatitis A and B vaccinations. So why is ebola in sewage not considered a problem?

I can come up with only two conclusions from all of this: either this has not been thought through very thoroughly, or it has not been adequately explained. Either way, by now there ought to be some sort of easy to find, public guidance for sewer utilities on the risks and procedures related to accepting wastes from ebola treatment facilities. But there is not.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

Dleg, you are correct that EPA has not been very helpful with providing guidelines for ebola and Wastewater. I found this article yesterday that seems to answer the question directly: http://www.tpomag.com/online_exclusives/2014/10/ebola_information_released_for_water_and_wastewater_utilities


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## Road Guy (Oct 15, 2014)

A second nurse in Texas has now been infected.

Lots of people at the CDC have been making hundreds of thousands of dollars for the last several decades hopefully they will begin earning their money soon


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

you know another thought on this whole pretreatment of the hospital WW is IF it is still active one it gets into the municipal system, it is now possible for animals, to become infected with it. To my knowledge there will be little way for anyone to monitor there movements.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

While Ebola doesn't appear to be waterborne, I quite surprised that hospitals don't already have a pretreatment process to deactivate all/most of the viruses that are waterborne in their waste stream. I suspect cost is the reason it's not "standard" practice.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

I found this article from 2006.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=2&amp;ved=0CD0QFjAB&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwaponline.com%2Fjwh%2F004%2F0405%2F0040405.pdf&amp;ei=7Gk-VNCSCLOQsQT_uIK4CQ&amp;usg=AFQjCNG1koHc7qavftpayiuP6La3SATQVA&amp;sig2=bKRIzJpnbCzoIcS_sOOnSg&amp;bvm=bv.77412846,d.cWc


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 15, 2014)




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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

and now it will begin to spread like wild fire....

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/texas-dept-2nd-person-tests-positive-for-ebola-1.9505247


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

^ well isn't that exciting.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

Time to move again


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## snickerd3 (Oct 15, 2014)

that's actually shocking that all people that came in contact with him weren't automatically put on 21 day monitoring/ quarantine from their last contact with him. For her to have taken a flight is just pure negligence and stupidity.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> that's actually shocking that all people that came in contact with him weren't automatically put on 21 day monitoring/ quarantine from their last contact with him. For her to have taken a flight is just pure negligence and stupidity.


agreed, but a blunder like this was bound to happen.

EDIT: as a matter of fact, this is probably when the idiot conspiracy theorists (OZ and such) will comment that the government created this situation to be able to implement martial law, take away our civil liberties (guns, etc) and force us all into a Socialistic community. I stress idiots.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > that's actually shocking that all people that came in contact with him weren't automatically put on 21 day monitoring/ quarantine from their last contact with him. For her to have taken a flight is just pure negligence and stupidity.
> ...




It would appear this country's response has been one blunder after another.


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## Road Guy (Oct 15, 2014)

There's a big difference between choosing to be fat,smoke, drink and our pussy government refusing to take action on this(restrict flights)...

I hope all US aid workers refuse to treat these people... Push them in the basement and let them die (the ones that come here with the disease)


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## snickerd3 (Oct 15, 2014)

^those aide workers can be die hard helpers, putting others ahead of themselves. It's what they live for life be damned.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)




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## DanHalen (Oct 15, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > that's actually shocking that all people that came in contact with him weren't automatically put on 21 day monitoring/ quarantine from their last contact with him. For her to have taken a flight is just pure negligence and stupidity.
> ...


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

but wait, there's more...

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1018543-nina-pham-boyfriend-ebola-nurse-boyfriend-admitted-to-hospital-with-ebola-like-symptoms/


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## ventilator (Oct 15, 2014)

Just read where they are saying the nurse on the flight had a 'slight' fever the day she flew. When are they actually going to treat this like a problem and start making people stay put where they are. Now they have to track down everyone on that flight...


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## engineergurl (Oct 15, 2014)

ventilator said:


> Just read where they are saying the nurse on the flight had a 'slight' fever the day she flew. When are they actually going to treat this like a problem and start making people stay put where they are. Now they have to track down everyone on that flight...






Just to play devils advocate, but what level is it really the government's responsibility? I blame the nurse, who really probably knew she had a "slight fever" and I'm SURE knew she had dealt with an Ebola patient. Not a single person has said a word about her poor decision. So we are blaming the government for failing to anticipate that a person in the medical field was uneducated enough to "inadvertently" expose the people on the plane... and POTENTIALLY EVERYONE ELSE she came in contact with?

Yes I understand that mistakes happen, and that everyone becomes lax with some procedures here and there, but it's not like the first case wasn't all over the media and being made into a big deal that these people didn't have a constant reminder in their faces of what they were dealing with.

The government should only have to focus on restrictions of incoming passengers (which they HAD restrictions in place but the first dude full out lied so it wouldn't have been caught- now we need to consider escalating them). Ensuring that the public utilities are protected, ensuring that the food chain is not contaminated in any way, ensuring that the professionals who are dealing with it are fully trained and aware and focusing on healing those that have contracted it.

It was actually nice to hear how the story played out locally. Woman returns from Liberia, goes to Christian clinic to seek treatment for cold. Doctor believes nothing out of her mouth about not being exposed to Ebola, closes the entire clinic down and arranges transport to the large hospital where she is isolated and tested. While the tests have come back negative, she's still in isolation until the CDC can confirm.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

When I blame the government, it's both local and national. Hospitals and medical professionals are regulated to protect the public. But, the local regulators should also be concerned about the medical professionals making sure they have the training and tools to deal with and properly protect the public. If the nurse didn't have the training or tools to safely treat the victim, that's on the hospital and the entity that regulates them.


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## roadwreck (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm hoping on a plane to NY tomorrow, so I'm pretty much screwed right?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 15, 2014)

roadwreck said:


> I'm hoping on a plane to NY tomorrow, so I'm pretty much screwed right?


just hold you breath for the entire flight or ask if they can arrange for your seat to be moved to the cargo area. :thumbs:


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## roadwreck (Oct 15, 2014)

At least Emory was able to treat two Ebola patients without getting anyone else infected. This Dallas hospital seems to be F-ing things up at every opportunity.

We are doooooooooooomed!


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## Road Guy (Oct 15, 2014)

I think the emory situation is different. They we're awaiting the arrival, CDC was next door..

When your patients just show up and don't tell you hey I was in Africa last week , now I got a little sniffle...sorry I just killed you....

Most hospitals are not ready to deal with an infectious disease in all reality...

Wife's old hospital back home (kennestone- level 4 trauma ) which is actually fairly ahead of the game as compared to both place she has worked here...they don't even have the "hazmat" type suits in the building... CDC is telling them that the paper gowns and mask / gloves is all you need.... Yeah fuck that....


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## Dleg (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't think the WRF response to sewer exposure to ebola fully answers the concerns:



> Ebola is not a foodborne, waterborne or airborne illness. The virus is transmitted to humans from wild animals and spreads in the human population through human-to-human transmission. Ebola is transmitted through direct contact with infected bodily fluids (e.g., blood, vomit, feces). The Ebola virus can only replicate within host cells. Therefore, it cannot survive long in water because it does not have its host — either a human or an animal.
> Because of Ebola’s fragility when separated from its host, bodily fluids flushed by an infected person would not contaminate the water supply. Researchers believe Ebola survives in water for only a matter of minutes. This is because water does not provide the same environment as our bodily fluids, which have higher salt concentrations. Once in water, the host cell will take in water in an attempt to equalize the osmotic pressure, causing the cells to swell and burst, thus killing the virus.


Maybe there is nothing to worry about, but again I ask: if ebola is transmitted from contact with bodily fluids, and sewage by definition is a collection of (dilute) bodily fluids, why is Ebola-contaminated sewage not considered infectious?? By the WRF reasoning, Ebola in bodily fluids, outside the body, is not infectious. And we know that is not true. So, once again, at what point does Ebola sewage become non-infectious? And if that point is anywhere outside the patient's body, then Ebola-contaminated sewage is not safe.


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## Dleg (Oct 15, 2014)

Here's one the sources cited by the WRF for their response above:



> *Can Ebola be spread through a drop of water or carried through the water system?*
> 
> "[The virus] will not remain for a long time in the water," Gonzalez says. "It's not a very rich medium to protect the virus."
> 
> ...


OK - fine. But this does not mean that the sewage is safe. For some period of "minutes", it is potentially infectious. As others have noted here, aside from sewer workers, there are animals that live within sewer systems (rats, cockroaches) that could serve as hosts and therefore vectors for the virus.

I am sure that I am overblowing this.... no doubt. But I also think that every possible avenue of prevention should be examined. Just assuming, in this case, might do a hell of a lot more damage than just making an ass of u and me.


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## Road Guy (Oct 15, 2014)

It would be nice if you could run your concerns up your chain of command....,


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## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2014)

I think we can all agree that raw wastewater is not safe. But at this point, one is more likely to get hepatitis A than ebola from contact with wastewater.


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## Dleg (Oct 15, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> It would be nice if you could run your concerns up your chain of command....,


Done. Waiting for response.


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## frazil (Oct 15, 2014)

They probably don't let patients go directly in the toilet anyway, right? They probably make them use those hospital toilets (buckets), and then pour some bleach in before disposing.


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## Dleg (Oct 15, 2014)

^That's not what the CDC interim guidance says. CDC says they can use the regular toilet, with no other precautions specified.


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## Road Guy (Oct 15, 2014)

Yep- wife said if they can walk they use toilet....


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

2nd nurse flew on a frontier flight.....,


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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

Amazing. I'm sorry but I'm not buying any sob stories about being thrown under the bus anymore. This second nurse's behavior shows she is completely oblivious to any sense of responsibility.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> 2nd nurse flew on a frontier flight.....,


This. According to a story that I read last night, she called the CDC ahead of her flight and said that she was experiencing a slight fever. They told her not the fly, yet she did anyway.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Oct 16, 2014)




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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/15/second-dallas-hospital-worker-diagnosed-ebola/17290677/

It's the other way around CDC gave her the okay to fly.... Dumb on both parts.... Dleg your missing the point is that nurses are saying they are not being adequately prepared for this....trainee or equipped...


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## Ramnares P.E. (Oct 16, 2014)

Was just about to post the conflict of information RG : http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-health-department-statement-health-care-worker-tests-positive-ebola-article-1.1974828


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## ventilator (Oct 16, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> ventilator said:
> 
> 
> > Just read where they are saying the nurse on the flight had a 'slight' fever the day she flew. When are they actually going to treat this like a problem and start making people stay put where they are. Now they have to track down everyone on that flight...
> ...


I think the nurse was completely irresponsible and blame her 98%. But knowing how inconsiderate/stupid it seems most people are, it seems like a gov mandated isolation for anyone known to come into contact with an ebola patient is the only way to keep people from doing something stupid like getting on a flight when you are a supposed health care professional.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

http://www.today.com/health/dallas-nurse-we-never-talked-about-ebola-thomas-eric-duncan-2D80220579

I saw this interview this morning. Yeah, she just lost her job.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

She's probably going to die anyway and then they will put her pets to sleep so what does it really matter?( about losing her job)

I wish every nurse in America would give a blue flu type call in for a week...


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

by pets, do you mean her two kids?


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

The first nurse, they euthanized her dog


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## matt267 PE (Oct 16, 2014)

RG, the nurse in the interview is not the second news to be diagnosed.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

So how can you read that USA today article and still blame the fucking nurse?


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## snickerd3 (Oct 16, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> http://www.today.com/health/dallas-nurse-we-never-talked-about-ebola-thomas-eric-duncan-2D80220579
> 
> I saw this interview this morning. Yeah, she just lost her job.


somebody wanted $ and attention


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## matt267 PE (Oct 16, 2014)

Hopefully RI will be better prepared: http://www.turnto10.com/story/26689948/ri-doctors-prepared-for-ebola


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

Snick- that's a very uninformed statement....that's what is actually happening in most all hospitals....


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## snickerd3 (Oct 16, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> Snick- that's a very uninformed statement....that's what is actually happening in most all hospitals..


I have no doubt that this is happening all over, I just don't agree with the her method. Going straight to media should not be the first thing on your mind.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

Who else do you go to when no one else will listen?

These nurses have seen all the jokes about Ebola from the likes of even educated people on this board from people not taking this seriously. they have always had to deal with the threat of disease,death to do their job, now it's even more so... I would be frustrated as hell also....

When doctors contracted Ebola in Africa did people blame the doctors? But the dumb nurses yeah let's blame them...

When 18 rangers died and 80 were wounded in Somalia did you blame the army rangers or their leaders? Yep dumb ranger failed to follow protocol and allowed himself to get shot in the neck and bleed to death...

Don't be fooled by any hospital that tells you they are "prepared"....


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

I was in total support of her and the interview that she gave this morning. When asked about what she encountered, she answered honestly and thoroughly. I'm sure the lawyer coached as to exactly how to respond. The only part that bothered me was her response at the end of the interview where she was asked if she would go to her hospital if she was found to have symptoms of the virus. To which she replied no. It wasn't that she replied no, but it was how she did it that rubbed me the wrong way. Up to that point I saw no grounds for the hospital to be able to or look to dismiss her, until then. And again, she didn't say anything wrong at all. It was just the way she said it.

As for my earlier statement about the CDC permitting the second nurse to travel, I swear I saw a statement published where the CDC told her not to fly. And then after, a second statement completely contradicting it stating that they told her it was ok.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

I wish every nurse in America would walk out right now.. there is no way they can fire them all.. I don't normally believe in pussy liberal union tactics but I wish they would all up and quit until they provide some real equipment and training for them all... If no one cares about their safety why should they give a rats ass about your family member sitting in the hospital (&amp; have to deal with their asshole family members during their 14 hour shifts?)


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## csb (Oct 16, 2014)

I'd like to say first I'm glad I'm not a healthcare worker.

Secondly, the government regulates things when people won't self-regulate. It's that simple. So, if people aren't self-policing, that's when the government steps in. It's why we have speed limits. It's probably why we're going to see some ebola travel restrictions coming on soon.


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## engineergurl (Oct 16, 2014)

I'll be honest, I'm actually a little confused about the guidance. In reality, you can't catch this crap through your skin, so if you can disinfect any skin areas that were exposed, you would be fine. It makes sense to cover as much of that skin as possible because even the smallest of droplets landing on the tiniest nick could infect you, but doesn't it sort of depend on what your interaction with the patient is and what stage of the sickness they are in? I mean if the patient is still in the early stages of the symptoms, there is MUCH less risk involved for the health care professionals (as long as they are aware it's ebola) than when they are in the bleed out phase of it because there is less bodily fluids involved. The danger that comes with the initial stage of symptoms is that it's probably not KNOWN that it's ebola and the person is walking around thinking they have the flu and spreading droplet sized contaminated spittle over everything they come in contact with... and that virus will sit there and wait until someone else picks it up.

I will say that I don't think people are actually realizing how nasty of a virus this is or they would not be making fun of the "paranoid people". I think if I ever contracted it and got to the point where my body was painfully disintegrating that I would rather someone shoot me and end it quick.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

This is what they are telling joe blo healthcare worker...


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## Ship Wreck PE (Oct 16, 2014)

Anybody else read "The Hot Zone"? We had to read it in our chemistry class. It is supposedly a true story about the origins of the Ebola virus. It is pretty cheap on Amazon.


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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

Dleg said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > It would be nice if you could run your concerns up your chain of command....,
> ...


Guidance may be changing... I am hearing now that *perhaps* a strong chlorine solution will be required in toilet prior to flushing, as well as a required contact time before flushing.

It seems that others share my concerns.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

Well since the first Ebola patient was in Atlanta a month + ago, If it had lived through the wastewater stream it would have already hit the Chattahoochee river which is the drinking supply for south GA and parts of Alabama and Florida so wouldn't there be some other dead / infected people by now? They (Emory) was connected to the DeKalb County Treatment Plant (which is probably more inept than the group you work for in the islands)....


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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

That is not the concern - the virus truly is not expected to survive the treatment process. The concern is the sewer collection system, between the toilet and the treatment plant. Generally that is not a concern because it is reasonably secured from contact with humans and the environment. But "reasonably" may not be enough with something this virulent. "Sh!t happens" in a sewer system... workers have to clean bar screens. Vacuum truck operators clean sewers and aerosolize sewage. Pumps fail, or pipes clog and cause overflows. Animals (vectors) live inside many sewers, despite diameter restrictions.


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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

And just to add to that, before anyone starts panicking, this means that there still is no concern that ebola wastes from hospitals will contaminate rivers, groundwater, or other sources of drinking water and recreation. Not only in theory, but there is no epidemiological evidence that the disease spreads in that fashion, despite it occurring in places with notoriously bad sanitation.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

If you go "into" a sewer treatment plant what do you wear?


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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

This is a question that has also been asked....

But also to be clear, sewage treatment plants are loaded with pathogens, many of which are far more hardy and infectious. Treatment plant workers are (supposedly) trained and equipped to prevent infection.

In practice, I see many workers with essentially no PPE... maybe rubber gloves and rubber boots.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

I've recently inquired quite a bit. I have a colleague who is involved at the municipal level. I'm being told that here in NJ it is up to the governing sewer authority to mandate additional restrictions on hospitals regarding pretreatment. Nothing on the state level has it as a requirement. This is disturbing to me. Like Dleg said my concerns are the in between periods of of the hospital and the STP. Not to mention the animal situation. They live in and move around in the sewers. And the animals can contract and transmit this shit. Once that starts happening it will be near impossible to tract this thing.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

Then I would say they are either dumb or suffering from a lack of leadership....

My wifes work they stuffed a trifold on their lockers and said "training will be coming" That was 2 weeks ago, that is similar for her friends that work in "big time" hospitals ..... They (workers) are asking for better equipment and the hospitals are failing to do anything because the CDC has said they don't need the hazmat type suits (which is what the Emory / CDC type places use)...

If my wife still worked in the ER or in a respiratory floor I would already have instructed her to quit. They are truly going to be the frontline...


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

That's a shame. Like I said earlier about the nurse who was interviewed. Someone needed to speak up on their behalf. I just home the hospital doesn't shit can her as a result


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

its a high turn over industry - nurses with experience have about a hard a time finding a job as a college girl does in getting laid.. she knows nurses that have been fired for stealing meds who get a new job in about a week..


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

True but the whistle blower label tends to change things.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

Either way, I coming her, your wife and any other nurse person in the medical treatment profession.


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

At least maybe Ebola in the hospitals will keep patients annoying ass families from coming into the hospital..

if your family member is ever in the hospital, don't annoy the nurses, steady stream of family coming in is annoying as shit.. don't ask them to get you coffee, juice etc. my wife is to nice to say no, but most of her coworkers spit in the coffee of people who ask them to go get them a cup..


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

I would never have even asked such a thing. People have balls


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## Road Guy (Oct 16, 2014)

people are just rude......


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## NJmike PE (Oct 16, 2014)

Seriously. Over the last 5 years, between births and trips to the er because of the kids having high fevers or what not, I've never ever considered such a thing. If I needed something I got it myself. They've offered me things, food etc, but I've never asked for it.


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## Dark Knight (Oct 16, 2014)




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## Dleg (Oct 16, 2014)

I attended a state (territory!)-level meeting today about the Ebola response plans. Very interesting - the state public health folks (doctors) saying repeatedly that we need to be ahead of CDC, because they have backtracked so many times now. The overall emphasis was that we need to be more conservative than the CDC is telling us to be. That, and the best strategy for not scaring away commerce (tourism) is to show that we have very strict procedures in place to prevent an Ebola case here. Still sort of scary stuff, when you are listening seasoned docs, who all proclaimed that they had been through SARS and MERS, saying that this Ebola outbreak is a "game changer" and "nothing will be the same after this".


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## Road Guy (Oct 17, 2014)

What have we been paying billions of dollars into the CDC for?

Did you know they didn't even come to Dallas for several days after they were contacted?


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## Dleg (Oct 17, 2014)

Yep.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> If you go "into" a sewer treatment plant what do you wear?


RG, industry standard is "gloves when you may contact wastewater or sludge in any form." It is also recommended to keep work clothes separate from home clothes when laundering and to frequently wash your hands.
This is in the training manuals put out by CSU Sacramento and the EPA (ISBN 1 884701 46 9)


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## Krakosky (Oct 17, 2014)

Mr.Krak's dad is going to Africa. Not sure when or which part. Do you think travel to all of Africa should be restricted or only to the affected area? I'm thinking it should all be restricted until this situation is under control.


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## Dark Knight (Oct 17, 2014)

Krakosky said:


> Mr.Krak's dad is going to Africa. Not sure when or which part. Do you think travel to all of Africa should be restricted or only to the affected area? I'm thinking it should all be restricted until this situation is under control.


Yes. They should restrict traveling right NOW. It makes sense, which means they are not going to do it.


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## engineergurl (Oct 17, 2014)

Dark Knight said:


> Krakosky said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Krak's dad is going to Africa. Not sure when or which part. Do you think travel to all of Africa should be restricted or only to the affected area? I'm thinking it should all be restricted until this situation is under control.
> ...




didn't they just ask for voluntary agreements to be signed by the health care workers in Texas that they would avoid public places and travel or some such non-sense like that... uhhh.... way to pussyfoot around things

I say let the man go to Africa- just don't let him back in our country afterwards


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## csb (Oct 17, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> Either way, I coming her, your wife and any other nurse person in the medical treatment profession.




"I coming her"?



Krakosky said:


> Mr.Krak's dad is going to Africa. Not sure when or which part. Do you think travel to all of Africa should be restricted or only to the affected area? I'm thinking it should all be restricted until this situation is under control.




"Africa" is a big ass continent, with a wide range of societies. Is he headed to Liberia? Bad idea. South Africa? Travel on.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

They mentioned on the news this morning that travel restrictions might not be as helpful as we all would hope.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/26800081/ebola-rising-call-for-ban-on-travel-from-w-africa



> The president met into the evening with top aides and health officials at the White House, declaring afterward that he had no "philosophical objection" to imposing a travel ban on West Africa but had been told by health and security experts that it would be less effective than measures already in place - and perhaps would be counterproductive.
> 
> He said a ban could result in people trying to hide where they were coming from and thus becoming less likely to be screened.


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## Road Guy (Oct 17, 2014)

But isn't that what passports are for? Just tell us where you dirty bitches have been?


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

That's when the pres' said, so it must be true.


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## DanHalen (Oct 17, 2014)

I know a few people that work in TSA and was talking with them Wednesday. They said they've been dealing with passengers flying in to our airport infected that may have Ebola. All they will say is that the passenger's have been detained. It pisses me off our imposter in chief isn't taking this shit seriously and not restricting flights from Liberia.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

It would seem like a no brainer.


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## engineergurl (Oct 17, 2014)

DanHalen said:


> I know a few people that work in TSA and was talking with them Wednesday. They said they've been dealing with passengers flying in to our airport infected with Ebola. All they will say is that the passenger's have been detained. It pisses me off our imposter in chief isn't taking this shit seriously and not restricting flights from Liberia.




you know doctors that work for the TSA? cause I'm not so sure that a TSA agent/employee is actually qualified to diagnose ebola...

perhaps they meant they were detained because they had been exposed or were showing symptoms but this is kind of one of those panic inducing rumors that probably isn't very helpful and only accomplishes pissing people off or scaring them...

Edit- I would also love to know what airport... Atlanta- sure cause that's where they are flying patients to get treated (duh)


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## DanHalen (Oct 17, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> DanHalen said:
> 
> 
> > I know a few people that work in TSA and was talking with them Wednesday. They said they've been dealing with passengers flying in to our airport infected with Ebola. All they will say is that the passenger's have been detained. It pisses me off our imposter in chief isn't taking this shit seriously and not restricting flights from Liberia.
> ...


Once a month or so I have lunch with a few of my friends and they work for TSA. They are not doctors so certainly not qualified to make that determination. However, if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.....


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## engineergurl (Oct 17, 2014)

DanHalen said:


> engineergurl said:
> 
> 
> > DanHalen said:
> ...


... it might be a chicken dressed up as a duck for Halloween.

Unless these people saw the "infected people" bleeding from their eyes and orifices, the flu looks like ebola so you can't go off of that... they JUST had a lady here recently come from Libera and go to the doctors with flu symptoms and test negative for it... I'm not saying they shouldn't be isolated and tested but it's not really smart to refer to them as "infected people"


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> ... the flu looks like ebola so you can't go off of that...




This just happened locally. They put the whole nursing home on lock down.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/26807338/nursing-home-worker-who-visited-nigeria-shows-flu-like-symptoms


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## Dark Knight (Oct 17, 2014)

What the frak is wrong with this country?

My wife called me 10 minutes ago almost hysterical because, and I quote her, " A whole town in Texas was locked down because a family of 5 tested positive to ebola". She even mentioned the name of the Dad, Jack Phillips. I did a search and it turned to be an f'ing internet hoax, thank God for that.

Since it was my daughter who told my wife I gave my princess a nasty speech about spreading stuff like that without knowing the source. She is a college student for crying out loud. She should know better. She was very apologetic. My wife will believe anything just because is on the internet. But who the heck would start a rumor like this given the present situation? It is a shame people in this country are willing to do that. People truly suck!!!!!!!!


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## NJmike PE (Oct 17, 2014)

csb said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > Either way, I coming her, your wife and any other nurse person in the medical treatment profession.
> ...


Commend. Damn autocorrect


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## Dleg (Oct 17, 2014)

You've got to be kidding me... the President is appointing a political hack with no medical or public health expertise to be his "Ebola Czar". Meanwhile there is no confirmed Surgeon General, who ought to be filling this role, and Obama's nominee for that post is almost universally viewed as not qualified. The SG is not only a position that is supposed to coordinate all federal agencies in their response to health crises, but is also the commanding officer of one of the seven uniformed US services - the Public Health Service - which could be utilized to do many things in this situation, and even be militarized, to ensure all of its 6700 officers are available to respond. There's an acting SG, a very respected and capable officer who rose through the ranks to earn his stars, but he is deferring to CDC in light of not being confirmed and having the blessing of the president.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/10/17/were-getting-an-ebola-czar-we-need-a-surgeon-general/


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## matt267 PE (Oct 17, 2014)

Fills you with confidence doesn't it.


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## engineergurl (Oct 17, 2014)

I saw that dleg, and thought the very same thing....


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## envirotex (Oct 18, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> I saw that dleg, and thought the very same thing....


+1


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## MA_PE (Oct 20, 2014)

Never underestimate the stupidity of people. Faking Ebola to get a faster 911 response. WTF

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/woman-fakes-ebola_n_6003744.html


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## Road Guy (Oct 20, 2014)

Hopefully they will send her the bill for the additional services


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## goodal (Oct 20, 2014)

My 8yr old, who is oblivious to the news, told me he had a stomach ache before I put them to bed the other night. Jokingly and in passing, I said "Is it ebola?". "Whats that?" he asked. I replied "I don't know, but if you have it you die.". "Goodnight." I turned and went downstairs. He has a great sense of humor so it didn't occur to me that he would take it me seriously. 90 seconds later I heard a knock and sobbing at the door. He told mom goodal that dad told him he was going to die. We both tried to stiffle the laughter, but were unsuccessful. We told him he did not have ebola and he took it well. Kids.


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## matt267 PE (Oct 20, 2014)

Hopefully he doesn't tell his teacher that he has Ebola. They'll have the whole school on lock down and DCYF at your door.


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## Road Guy (Oct 20, 2014)

Wife worked all weekend, on her way home last night she stop by the grocery store for something quick she said it was very obvious people were staying 5 to 10 steps away from her as she walked around the store and her nurses outfit as well as in the checkout line.

I wonder how funny it would be to induce some type of fake massive throw up right there in the middle of the checkout line.


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## csb (Oct 20, 2014)

I say she stocks up on the fake blood capsules that are available this time of year.


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## wilheldp_PE (Oct 20, 2014)

Dleg said:


> You've got to be kidding me... the President is appointing a political hack with no medical or public health expertise to be his "Ebola Czar". Meanwhile there is no confirmed Surgeon General, who ought to be filling this role, and Obama's nominee for that post is almost universally viewed as not qualified. The SG is not only a position that is supposed to coordinate all federal agencies in their response to health crises, but is also the commanding officer of one of the seven uniformed US services - the Public Health Service - which could be utilized to do many things in this situation, and even be militarized, to ensure all of its 6700 officers are available to respond. There's an acting SG, a very respected and capable officer who rose through the ranks to earn his stars, but he is deferring to CDC in light of not being confirmed and having the blessing of the president.
> 
> http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/10/17/were-getting-an-ebola-czar-we-need-a-surgeon-general/




I heard this on NPR when I was driving to Indy last weekend. My favorite part of the story is one of the reasons that Obama's candidate is being blocked by Republicans in Congress. They said that the candidate holds the controversial opinion that gun control is a public health problem. If that is the kind of batshit stupid people that Obama is nominating to lead this country, then I commend the Republicans for stone-walling him.


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## Road Guy (Oct 20, 2014)

He also looks like he is 12....


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## engineergurl (Oct 20, 2014)

that all went back and forth a while back ... didn't the whole debate about doctors being required to ask if there were guns in the house or something and then noting it in the medical records?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 20, 2014)

and then there's this

http://www.theonion.com/articles/tracking-ebola-in-the-united-states,37218/?utm_source=Facebook&amp;utm_medium=SocialMarketing&amp;utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1efault


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## NJmike PE (Oct 23, 2014)

And so it starts all over. Some doctor was just rushed to Bellevue hospital with a 103 degree fever and some kind of intestinal issues. He apparently returned from West Africa on October 9th where he was treating Ebola patients.


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## Supe (Oct 23, 2014)

*sigh*

Thats OK, lets not put any flight restrictions in place.


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## Road Guy (Oct 23, 2014)

I haven't seen a report on those 2 nurses in while (other than the ones dog didn't have ebola)


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## engineergurl (Oct 23, 2014)

Supe said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Thats OK, lets not put any flight restrictions in place.


I thought they had put some in place


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## NJmike PE (Oct 23, 2014)

I heard the one who flew despite the CDC advising against it was declared Ebola free now.


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## engineergurl (Oct 23, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> I heard the one who flew despite the CDC advising against it was declared Ebola free now.


That's what the news just said


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## NJmike PE (Oct 23, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> Supe said:
> 
> 
> > *sigh*
> ...


They did. There are only a handful of airports which are permitted to accept incoming flights from West Africa


----------



## Supe (Oct 23, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> engineergurl said:
> 
> 
> > Supe said:
> ...


That's like wearing a condom with a hole in it.


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## Road Guy (Oct 23, 2014)

what I thought I read was that they were going to do "send home" thermometers and log books for passengers for the airports that predominately receive inbound West African Passengers- the news story said those 6 or 7 airports "usually" receive 70% of West African Passengers... very comforting. with the "take home logs" I am sure those will get filled out..


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## Dleg (Oct 23, 2014)

I got on an Ebola kick last night, and watched the 2 Nova documentaries on it (one from the 90s and one just this month). I recommend them - especially the most recent. I watched it on Youtube, so it's very easy to find. I also watched a PBS documentary from earlier this year on Yellow Fever in America - also pretty interesting, but not as good as the Ebola shows. Yellow Fever is a hemorrhagic virus that kills in almost the same way as Ebola, and wiped out huge percentages of the U.S. population for a couple of hundred years until they figured out it was coming from mosquitoes, right around the time of the Spanish-America war.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 23, 2014)

They just reported that the doctor has tested positive for Ebola. Here we go again...


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## Dleg (Oct 23, 2014)

I think it's fair to say that this is going to happen occasionally.... so I am not feeling particularly surprised, nor terrified.

What will be interesting in this case, will be to know what precautions he was taking and/or being ordered to take, and whether anyone else contracts the virus from him. If procedures have indeed improved, then we shouldn't see another case of infection from him...... right??


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## NJmike PE (Oct 23, 2014)

In theory that's correct, but there's always that human element to contend with...


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 23, 2014)

&lt;---- this is my concerned face


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## Dleg (Oct 23, 2014)

Since I've been on my Ebola kick, I've learned some interesting things, many of which have reduced the fear factor for me, personally. One thing that I have read is that there have been previous studies that have shown that there are many people that have the Ebola antibodies in their blood, but have never been sick. This has even been shown in areas that have not had an historic outbreak. So the thinking is that the virus may be a lot less lethal than we think, because there may be many, many people who become infected but show only minor, or no symptoms. This might explain the apparent difference in mortality rates in the US and Africa - we test everyone here who has even a slight fever, and so we see the sub-clinical cases, but in Africa you only get tested if you drag yourself into a clinic in the final stages of the more serious infection, and the sub-clinical cases are not even seen.


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## Road Guy (Oct 23, 2014)

Right now it's basically only a concern if you are a health care worker....


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## MA_PE (Oct 24, 2014)

the NY doctor participated in the "Doctors without Borders" program and was treating Ebola patients in Africa. The he returns to one of the most densely populated cities in the US without a quarantine period. Am I the only one thinking that there's something wrong with this scenario. May they should've quarantined him for the 21 days just a precaution in the first place. I realize 3 weeks is a lot of time for a busy doctor but tough sh&amp;t. such is the price of charity. no good deed goes unpunished.


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## roadwreck (Oct 24, 2014)

So should I go ahead and go into a 21 day quarantine? I was in NYC earlier this week, rode the 1 and A trains and flew through JFK...

...I'm doomed right?


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 24, 2014)

roadwreck said:


> So should I go ahead and go into a 21 day quarantine? I was in NYC earlier this week, rode the 1 and A trains and flew through JFK...
> 
> ...I'm doomed right?


I think you can download an Android app to see whether or not you have Ebola. Let us know how it works out.


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## MA_PE (Oct 24, 2014)

roadwreck said:


> So should I go ahead and go into a 21 day quarantine? I was in NYC earlier this week, rode the 1 and A trains and flew through JFK...
> 
> ...I'm doomed right?


could be. Enjoy the paid break.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 25, 2014)

So governors come and Krispy Kreme put in place mandatory 21 day quarantines for any health care workers or others returning from West Africa. See. Proactive. I like that.


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## Road Guy (Oct 25, 2014)

Applaud the effort but won't they just fly to another city that's is too afraid to fulfill their leadership responsibilities?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 25, 2014)

Possibly. But at least it's a good step in the right direction


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## MA_PE (Oct 25, 2014)

Not sure I completely buy this, here's an excuse.

http://news.yahoo.com/why-dont-ebola-doctors-self-quarantine-140038847.html


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## snickerd3 (Oct 26, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> So governors come and Krispy Kreme put in place mandatory 21 day quarantines for any health care workers or others returning from West Africa. See. Proactive. I like that.


yeah and now the city will be facing civil rights violations from the nurse this rule put in mandatory isolation for 21 days. IL gov just said il was going to do the same thing with mandatory quarantines.


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## Road Guy (Oct 26, 2014)

http://youtu.be/D_AsXqn9fxY


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## NJmike PE (Oct 27, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > So governors come and Krispy Kreme put in place mandatory 21 day quarantines for any health care workers or others returning from West Africa. See. Proactive. I like that.
> ...


Yeah this bothers me. What a snob she is. She should know this is ultimately a good thing and to trust or hope for good judgement of those returning to "self-quarantine" themselves is foolish. Case in point, the NYC dr who is currently infected. He was out and about in public riding the subway, went bowling, having sex with his girlfriend. I know that since the mention of the lawsuit, Gov Cuomo has laxed on his "mandatory" state quarantine but not Commandant Christie. He's likely to show up bed side and call her stupid in person.



Road Guy said:


> &gt;http://youtu.be/D_AsXqn9fxY


This was hilarious


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/maine-nurse-defies-ebola-quarantine-with-bike-ride-1.9562969

**cough, cough** See you Next Tuesday **cough, cough**


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

you kind of sound like the idiots making the comments on the page NJ.. she freaking tested negative for the disease and has very specific rights in this country... and the people who are calling her selfish are forgetting that she is forcing the government to set a precedence that could likely impact their lives in the future

we have had several patience treated around our country and has any of the medical staff been locked in their houses?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

sorry, but it's her blatant defiance from the very beginning that has really irritated. She, as a health care professional and more importantly, a person who has seen what this disease can do should understand that there has been a panic here in this country over it. I personally do not feel that any of these mandatory quarantines have been politically driven. I think it is a blind attempt to cut off the spread of anything and overall for the greater good. I do feel that she is being selfish because she may not be showing signs NOW, but the incubation period is not over and she could still. She could do have debated this quietly, but she chose to be quite public about it and paint herself as a whiny, crying, oppressed individual.


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

I think that the politicians don't know what their talking about and they were only trying to quarantine her because of a political agenda. There are easier ways to implement preventative measures that were completely bypassed and the whole thing wouldn't have turned into the circus that it is if the government had followed a more logical pattern of steps. All it's doing is giving the community some sort of false sense of security and creating an image for the politicians that shows they are willing to "do something" when in fact they aren't. Lets not forget to mention it violates amendment 14 to the bill of rights so by trying to implement it, they are actually breaking the law.

Her choice of a bike ride rather than an intimate setting like a movie theater, restaurant etc shows that she really is just leaving the house to make a point and not to truly endanger anyone. But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 30, 2014)

> because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS


And even then, you need to be coughed on, puked on, bled on, pissed on, or shit on to get it, so, yeah, it's a non-issue. I say, "good for her".


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 30, 2014)

> should understand that there has been a panic here in this country over it


Really? Have you seen a panic? I mean, turn the TV off and look around the grocery store, the office, the park, the city streets, the library, the schools, the arenas full of football fans, and concert venues. Look around those places. Now tell me, where is this panic? Now go turn on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, I see the panic now.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

> But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.


True and despite what you think, before you started yelling here I already knew that so you can stop yelling like you teaching me a lesson. It's the blatant defiance. The "F-you! I'm gonna do what I want" attitude because she somehow deserves it.

So tell me, how does this differ from a scenario were bail is not set for someone who is awaiting a trial? On one hand you have the judge determining that the defendant is possibly a flight risk or a threat to society. Even though that person is a citizen with rights, and due a fair trial, the judge has to make a determination with everyone's best interests at hand until the trail have been concluded where that person will be found innocent or guilty. Well, in this instance, the judge is played by government, local or state, the defendant is the nurse and the trial is the incubation period.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

Sapper said:


> > should understand that there has been a panic here in this country over it
> 
> 
> Really? Have you seen a panic? I mean,* turn the TV off *and look around the grocery store, the office, the park, the city streets, the library, the schools, the arenas full of football fans, and concert venues. Look around those places. Now tell me, where is this panic? Now go turn on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, I see the panic now.


You should do this anyways.


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## Sapper PE LS (Oct 30, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> > But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.
> 
> 
> True and despite what you think, before you started yelling here I already knew that so you can stop yelling like you teaching me a lesson. It's the blatant defiance. The "F-you! I'm gonna do what I want" attitude because she somehow deserves it.
> ...


Bail on somebody who is a flight risk and dangerous = somebody who is truly a risk to society.

Quarantine of somebody who is not symptomatic, and even if becomes symptomatic is wholly unlikely to actually endanger anybody does not = somebody who is truly a risk to society.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> > But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.
> 
> 
> True and despite what you think, before you started yelling here I already knew that so you can stop yelling like you teaching me a lesson. It's the blatant defiance. The "F-you! I'm gonna do what I want" attitude because she somehow deserves it.
> ...


So a healthcare worker should be treated as someone arrested for a crime?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> NJmike PE said:
> 
> 
> > > But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.
> ...


not saying that nor did. I am saying that I agree with the additional measures to quarantine anyone returning from regions where Ebola is running rampant. I would expect that health care workers, especially those on the front line would understand this. So are you saying that placing more strict requirements is completely unnecessary?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> > But regardless, do you know what the chances of you getting Ebola because someone rode their bike in front of your house is? I can tell you what they are... NONE, because with Ebola, you aren't really infectious until you are SHOW SYMPTOMS.
> 
> 
> True and despite what you think, before you started yelling here I already knew that so you can stop yelling like you teaching me a lesson. It's the blatant defiance. The "F-you! I'm gonna do what I want" attitude because she somehow deserves it.
> ...


I agree. The media sucks. Horribly sucks and is mostly to blame for the spread of fear in this situation or any but that is part of the world we live in now. I also understand that fluid to fluid contact is the only way to spread this. But I ask, have you ever gone out with a cold, maybe felt feverish? Ever had a cut on your body that you didn't put a band aid on? I get the odds are reduced, but it is still a possibility.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

I can see both sides of the argument, but you have to realize too that there are other diseases these people deal with that are just as bad but much more dangerous. You just don't know about it because the talking heads aren't talking about it. Something as seemingly insignificant as the flu is transmitted much more easily and can kill just as well as ebola can, but are we calling for all healthcare workers to be quarantined who treated flu patients?

The only reason ebola is getting the attention is because it's not as common. I can guarantee that 6 months from now this thread will be long forgotten, as will the uproar about it. Can anyone say swine flu?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

What about the office worker who doesn't quite feel so good, but still goes to work?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

Then there are people like me who are simply carriers. I can develop a case of the sniffles and a slight headache, but two days later my wife and a few coworkers are home with severe colds. Should I be perma-quarantined?


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> What about the office worker who doesn't quite feel so good, but still goes to work?


I hate that person. I Hate the person that refuses to cover themselves. Any place that I go where I have the ability to put my kids in their nursery where other parents, I will refer to them as highly inconsiderate, also put their sneezy, nunning nose coughing kids their. next thing mine are sick. I hate, hate, hate this.


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Then there are people like me who are simply carriers. I can develop a case of the sniffles and a slight headache, but two days later my wife and a few coworkers are home with severe colds. Should I be perma-quarantined?


Yes, but for other reasons and it might not as much be considered "quarantined" as incarcerated. And again, for other reasons


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 30, 2014)

The flu has a 95% mortality rate? :huh:

Seems like apples to oranges with comparing that to Ebola.


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> The "F-you! I'm gonna do what I want" attitude because she somehow deserves it.






She does deserve it, hence it's a _right_, not a privilege or entitlement. In our country quarantines fall under the federal government and while I'm usually Mrs. State Rights and Power Woman, this is a situation where the federal government has stepped in in the past and established it's procedures, we need to follow them.

And along Dex's line of thinking, should everyone who has HIV, Hepatitis, or any of the other infectious diseases spread by human body fluids should be locked in their houses too? I realize that Ebola can be spread through saliva while many other can't but where do you draw the line.

EDIT- I used italics this time to emphasis my words rather than caps so you wouldn't think I was yelling.


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## frazil (Oct 30, 2014)

I think some of the quarantine regulations may be a knee-jerk response, but I agree with NJ that her attitude is really irritating.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> The flu has a 95% mortality rate? :huh:
> 
> Seems like apples to oranges with comparing that to Ebola.


Change it to HIV then.

As a society we have prosecuted people who knowingly infect others, but we do not regulate the infected.


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> The flu has a 95% mortality rate? :huh:
> 
> Seems like apples to oranges with comparing that to Ebola.




Ebola doesn't have that kind of mortality rate in our country either... just saying.


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## Road Guy (Oct 30, 2014)

which article said the flu has a 95% mortality rate?

Ebola so far is 50%- which is pretty steep.. My main concern is for people in healthcare and their families, they will be the first ones to catch this and die, the rest of you clowns are probably pretty safe..


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> My main concern is for people in healthcare and their families, they will be the first ones to catch this and die, the rest of you clowns are probably pretty safe..




I actually don't disagree with you here... people usually only go to the doctors when they are showing symptoms so there is an increased risk


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## NJmike PE (Oct 30, 2014)

all the more reason for this 21 day quarantine to occur overseas and not here.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2014)

NIMBY is not a valid reason to impose government regulations.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 30, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> *NIMBY* is not a valid reason to impose government regulations.


sounds like a gumby character name


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

snickerd3 said:


> Dexman PE PMP said:
> 
> 
> > *NIMBY* is not a valid reason to impose government regulations.
> ...




I always thought that too Snick...


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 30, 2014)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> NIMBY is not a valid reason to impose government regulations.


LOL. That's an Enviro thing!


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> Dexman PE PMP said:
> 
> 
> > NIMBY is not a valid reason to impose government regulations.
> ...




a pretty important one too, although applied here it sort of takes a different meaning because I doubt anyone wants Ebola to exist...


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## Road Guy (Oct 30, 2014)

As Dleg pointed out, back in the day, everyone who came to _America_ was quarantined at Ellis Island somewhere..

And I want to reiterate, top notch hospitals are not prepared for an outbreak, don't be fooled by anyone that tells you otherwise, what happened in Texas would most likely happen at any place in the Country.


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## mudpuppy (Oct 30, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> As Dleg pointed out, back in the day, everyone who came to _America_ was quarantined at Ellis Island somewhere..




That's referring to immigrants; the Constitution does not apply to them. We are talking about American citizens. USA

If a person is showing no symptoms and tests negative for the disease I don't see how one can say due process is served to justify a quarantine.


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## Road Guy (Oct 30, 2014)

A leaders role is to make difficult decisions that are not going to be popular with everyone.

And if the Constitution does not apply to immigrants then why in the hell are we spending our money to pay for schooling of the children of illegal immigrants?


----------



## knight1fox3 (Oct 30, 2014)




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## mudpuppy (Oct 30, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> And if the Constitution does not apply to immigrants then why in the hell are we spending our money to pay for schooling of the children of illegal immigrants?






No clue. We should send them back to where they came from if you ask me.


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## Dleg (Oct 30, 2014)

I agree the quarantined Ebola nurse is irritating and whiney. I am sure she has valid constitutional questions in need of answers. But I have two comments on that: 1. diseases aren't subject to the constitution - quarantines should not be put on hold pending adjudication through the U.S. legal system, and 2. she is probably doing far more harm than good to the cause of public health professionals everywhere, which leads me to agree that yes, she is being incredibly selfish. Don't forget that when she passed through the airport screening, she met all the criteria for flagging as potential Ebola - she had just been in Western Africa, had been in close contact with people having Ebola, and had a temperature of over 101 F. Yes, the quarantine itself was very poorly operated, and yes I agree that she ultimately should have been released to self-enforced isolation, like everyone else coming back to the U.S. (BTW I am told that government personnel coming back from the new Ebola treatment units will be held for an additional month in isolation, prior to returning to duty). In my opinion, she needs to be far more understanding of the situation before she ends up achieving her aim of getting some sort of restraining order on government quarantines, all argued and pushed by lawyers and not public health professionals, and then having that backfire and result in deaths.


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## Road Guy (Oct 30, 2014)

It's probably time to get the umbrella Corporation involved


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 30, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> It's probably time to get the umbrella Corporation involved


YES!!!!

Any that are potentially infected, will be put in the nemesis program...


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## Road Guy (Mar 2, 2015)

so the Texas nurse that was infected with Ebola is suing her hospital. saying they didn't provide proper training or equipment. I am usually not a huge fan of lawsuits, but I think this is a good thing to get some case law out there to force hospitals to provide the proper training and equipment in the future.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/us/nina-pham-hospital-lawsuit/index.html


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## MA_PE (Mar 2, 2015)

I think you're biased. All jobs have risks and the health profession has potential infection. It was an ordeal and thankfully she survived but I'm not a fan of making people rich because life handed them a lousy card.

"According to The Dallas Morning News, Pham wants unspecified damages for physical pain, mental anguish, medical expenses and loss of future earnings. But she told the newspaper that she wants to "make hospitals and big corporations realize that nurses and health care workers, especially frontline people, are important. And we don't want nurses to start turning into patients.""

"physical and mental pain" always gets me in these lawsuits, think of how many people are experiencing pain on a daily basis but aren't "fortunate" enough to have a deep-pockets entity to sue.

"medical expenses" - I think her employer should definitely cover this. It was a workplace incident that caused it.

"and loss of future earnings" - why? I don't know if she has any working limitations

"make hospitals and big corporations realize that nurses and health care workers, especially frontline people, are important. And we don't want nurses to start turning into patients" - ding, ding, ding she's a martyr for all the healthcare workers and should get a huge personal settlement to teach those hospital owners/operators a lesson. this part of these types of lawsuits I do not agree with.


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## Road Guy (Mar 2, 2015)

yes I am probably biased, but providing staff with paper gowns is way below what most would deem "reasonable" care.

I would venture that most people don't have any real safety &amp; health risks at their job, aside from getting into a car wreck on the way to work.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Mar 2, 2015)

&lt;--- Traffic control supervisor.


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## goodal (Mar 2, 2015)

&lt;----- Performs electrical work on the side.


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## engineergurl (Mar 2, 2015)

Road Guy said:


> yes I am probably biased, but providing staff with paper gowns is way below what most would deem "reasonable" care.
> 
> I would venture that most people don't have any real safety &amp; health risks at their job, aside from getting into a car wreck on the way to work.




not according to OSHA and Forbe's. Though in reality, the worst risk out there to anyone currently is supposedly workplace violence.


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## MA_PE (Mar 2, 2015)

as a structural engineer I've investigated live sewer pipes (100 year old brick sewers, walking through with boots and a hard hat), looked at building facades (working on a swing stage 10+ stories high), worked in bucket trucks and basket lifts). Been to nuclear facilities, etc. permit-only confined spaces (in a 7ft diameter penstock with only the downstream gate between me and the river). Inside pipe where they're doing fiberglass overlays (the resins and volatile off-gasses aren't the most conducive to good health). There are a LOT of occupations that have some pretty serious safety and health risks. Try working with fiberglass on a daily basis or at anything dealing with aggregate like a mine/rock crusher (silicosis).


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## Road Guy (Mar 2, 2015)

I have only had to listen the stories but I would wager that most people on this board wouldn't make it past lunch time having to do the things that most nurse do every day.. I know I wouldn't....

Thursday the wife had to use a lift they put in the rooms so they don't have to pick people up and while the guy was in the lift he sprayed they entire room with "a lot" of diarrhea....


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## MA_PE (Mar 2, 2015)

there's a difference between "health and safety hazard" and "majorly disgusting health and safety hazard".

I certainly hope the diarrhea explosion isn't a daily (or even a remotely regular) occurrence. Time to wrap that guy in a shower curtain, hoist him over a tub or out a window and hit him with a fire hose.

I readily admit that I wouldn't last in a hospital environment or nursing home dealing with folks "bodily issues".


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## Road Guy (Mar 2, 2015)

Sadly it’s about a weekly occurrence..

But the example is that bodily fluids is the main way to transmit those types diseases.. when you are exposed to it about every other shift there needs to be a little more “protection” provided.. For a little lab test, next time you get “the runs”, try wiping it with a paper mask and see how much goes through 

There is also a large movement to do away with catheters, due to “patient comfort” so someone, a nurse usually, gets stuck dealing with bedpans on a more frequent basis, exposure to more bodily fluids.. when what is truly better for the patient (&amp; generally the ones keeping their sorry ass alive) is a catheter.

.

I think for every hospital that had an Ebola patient there was one infected nurse so I believe their concerns should be listed to. The wife’s friends back home that work at Grady in Atlanta (Level 1 Trauma) have had zilch in terms of training other than “if you see them isolate them and we will ship them to Emory / CDC” – where they actually had extensive planning / training..

I’ll be glad to move into fatty money one day so she doesn’t have to deal with this anymore and also wont have to deal with her patients shitty families…


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## MA_PE (Mar 2, 2015)

I'm surprised that people studying nursing and medicine don't get more training in dealing with the bodily fluids of their patients. Thank god there are people that do that type of work. We'd be lost without them.


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## Dleg (Mar 2, 2015)

There was a whole NPR series about 2 weeks ago or so about the occupation with the highest prevalence of back injuries: nursing. All from having to manhandle patients around. I know a nurse who deployed to Liberia for the Ebola crisis, and was medevaced home short of her scheduled return not because she contracted Ebola, but because she injured her back moving Ebola patients around (she's back on the job now, though, and no lawsuit).


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## Road Guy (Mar 2, 2015)

Yes, that's why I mentioned the lift. After hurting her back a few years ago my wife refuses to pick these people up anymore. And I am glad. It's another thing where the patient's family will complain when she uses the lift that it is inhumane To their family member, however what they don't realize is that they either use the lift or they deal with chronic back pain for the rest of their life.

I think also if you surveyed nurses the best thing you could do for them is to go back to preventing family members from being able to be in the room almost 24 - 7. Or if they are going to be in the room there should be a big sign that tells them to keep their fucking mouth shut.


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## engineergurl (Mar 2, 2015)

Okay so I just saw the news and she is saying she didn't authorize the release of that video... that is grounds for suit right there imo.


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