# Quitting Smoking



## GulfCoastCivil (May 26, 2009)

I have a secret that I'm dying to share. I plan on quitting smoking starting June 1st. It all started when our company adopted a tobacco free policy which goes into effect June 1. It means no tobacco products are to be used on company property or neighboring property. I was going to keep smoking and take my breaks down the street in the dollar store parking lot. But then Mississippi passed a tobacco tax on top of the federal one that just went through. This was the final straw for me. From what I've gathered they will be using the extra tax money to make car tags cheaper. So great, you are taxing my smoking so that people who drive fancy expensive cars will get a car tag break. That's just great considering the Medicare debt this state is in. So, I'm going to quit. I put it off till that date because for one, it will be easier to get through at work because I won't be missing out when the other smokers go out for one. I got through that part last time, I just went outside with them and sucked on candy. The main reason for that date is this upcoming weekend is my Super Celebration Weekend I planned for my husband's birthday (also we will be celebrating our anniversary). We will be at the casino and such, so it will make a good last hurrah.

I quit last year and made it three weeks in. My downfall was that the patches worked so great that I forgot to keep up with them. Then my willpower went down. Then we had a drunken party weekend planned with my sister. She quit smoking a few years ago, but when we have our twice yearly drunken party weekend she smokes. So I smoked. Once I started I couldn't stop again. So this year is my year. I WILL go through the entire patch program, even if I feel they are no longer necessary. And the next drunken party weekend is not until December. We had to cancel the July one because we're going on vacation with my FIL.

Anyway, from experience, I've learned that the best way for me to quit is to not tell anyone. I had quit for over a week last time before telling anyone. When at home I went outside with an empty pack and a lighter at all my usual times so my husband wouldn't know. I had errands to run every lunch hour so people at work wouldn't figure it out. I have a problem with people saying things like "I knew you had it in you" or "so glad you finally took my advice". No, it's not about you, it's about me and my choice.

So, has anyone else here quit smoking, thought about quitting, etc.? Any good advice or stories to tell? What worked for you? What didn't? What's the best advice you got? the worst??


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## MGX (May 26, 2009)

Congrats, quitting smoking is easy; not starting again is another story.

I quit in '04 if my memory is correct and that was cold turkey. Patches, gum and other things were discarded since statistics show the best way to quit is cold turkey.

Get some toothpicks, sugar free gum or anything else you might think of to chew on that isn't food since your habit requires it. Withdrawl only takes 72 hours or so. After such the body only has to deal with the mental part of the addiction, which is what will most likely trigger a relapse.

So in short:

Get something to chew (in bulk)

Avoid alcohol (studies show a link between alcohol and smoking)

Exercise regularly (you'll probably eat more like I did and exercise releases dopamine which is a good replacement)

I also drank lots of hot tea; mainly ginseng, green and some mystery stuff that would make your head spin (probably ginko biloba in high density)


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for the tips. I already exercise pretty regularly, but am about to beef up when the gym I joined opens at the end of June. I chewed a lot of gum last time, but my body has .... umm... issues with sugarfree stuff. Splenda makes me break out like a horny teenager and the other stuff, well, ummm, let's just say I spend a lot more time in the bathroom. lol.


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## MA_PE (May 26, 2009)

1) good choice to stop smoking. Honestly, in today's society knowing what we know about tobacco products, and the fact that more and more places are banning it to the point where smokers are treated like outcasts, I truly don't understand why anyone would smoke anymore. Personally I don't really care if someone chooses to smoke or not, but I get really bothered by second-hand smoke so I'll support banning it in public places all the time. You want to smoke up a storm in your own house, I say have at it.

2) I'm a firm believer in just keeping it to yourself. Any "commitment" i.e. stop drinking, lose weight, exercise more, New Year's resolutions, etc. If you tell other people you only set yourself up for criticism if it doesn't work out. Keeping it to yourself allows you to minimize the ill-effects if things fall short. You can always take the praise after it's a done deal. Be your own critic/cheerleader.

3) Lastly, as intelligent people it's a matter of willpower. You either choose not to smoke or you choose to smoke. The longer you suppress it and fight it the more successful it will be. You may never get over the urge, just keep choosing no to.

4) Good luck and I hope you can kick it. Put that ciggybutt money in a jar and watch it add up.


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## PEara (May 26, 2009)

In my opinion the best product to quite smoking is Chantix. This medication needs prescription but if you go to your family doctor, he/she would write a prescription for you. You cannot believe how easy you can quite smoking with this medication.

Good luck


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## mudpuppy (May 26, 2009)

Chantix all the way. I quit 1.5 years ago as of last Wednesday using Chantix. I'd tried quitting cold turkey, with Zyban, with patches and with gum, and nothing worked like Chantix.

It does have side effects. Be sure to talk to the doctor about these. It tends to cause mood swings.

The only other tip I have is to think in 'minutes' when you have a craving. Put off having that smoke for a minute. If you still have the craving the next minute, put it off another minute. Eventually you'll forget about the craving--but if you think in terms of "I can't have a smoke again EVER!?" that sounds a lot more daunting.

And by the way, I completely disagree with MA_PE's #3: addiction and willpower have nothing to do with each other.


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## Fluvial (May 26, 2009)

I quit smoking Halloween of 2007. I also quit drinking. To me they went hand-in-hand, so quitting one meant quitting the other.

I have missed having a cold beer every now and then, but I don't miss the smoking at all.

To second what *PEara* said, our doctor is all the time trying to get Hubby to quit, and Dr. says that folks who've tried using Chantix have had good success.

Good luck. 

Oh yeah, I also recommend readin Allen Carr's book, The Easy Way to Quit Smoking. I read it after I quit, but it looks to be helpful.


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## snickerd3 (May 26, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> Thanks for the tips. I already exercise pretty regularly, but am about to beef up when the gym I joined opens at the end of June. I chewed a lot of gum last time, but my body has .... umm... issues with sugarfree stuff. Splenda makes me break out like a horny teenager and the other stuff, well, ummm, let's just say I spend a lot more time in the bathroom. lol.


ah, sorbital, not everyone's best friend.


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## MGX (May 26, 2009)

mudpuppy said:


> The only other tip I have is to think in 'minutes' when you have a craving. Put off having that smoke for a minute. If you still have the craving the next minute, put it off another minute. Eventually you'll forget about the craving--but if you think in terms of "I can't have a smoke again EVER!?" that sounds a lot more daunting.


Jeez, how could I forget this? Most, probably all, nicotine cravings were done and forgotten about within the span of 5, maybe 10 minutes and life went on as nothing had happened except I was probably a bit angry for a moment. Set your watch, those five minutes seem to be eternity, but soon they'll be over and you'll be in control again.


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## Chucktown PE (May 26, 2009)

What did you do when you were pregnant GCC? I would just recommend doing that again.


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## Wolverine (May 27, 2009)

I quit after college, but in truth, I was a relative lightweight so it doesn't really count. But I have a friend who was hardcore and he had the same epiphany, same time, and went through the same process I did, just on a bigger scale - *it was just time to quit, so he did*. "Spizzerinctum" is one of my favorite words - "the will to succeed" (sadly, it's lost favor in the English language for it's unfortunate syllabic homonyms).

One thing that works for me in changing a habit is to replace "something" with "somethingelse"- substituting a good behavior every time the bad behavior rears it's ugly head. That way, I'm not quitting, I'm improving. The brain can't succeed at a negative, but it can latch onto and succeed at a positive (my :2cents: worth of armchair psychology for the day!)


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 27, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> What did you do when you were pregnant GCC? I would just recommend doing that again.


The Nicosperm patch?


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## Supe (May 27, 2009)

Another vote for Chantix. My father had quit cold turkey a few years back, but put on a lot of weight as a result, and started up again when my sister and I's illnesses came about and the stress got to him. He went from two packs of Marlboro Reds a day to nothing at all with Chantix, has lost nearly 100 pounds since going on a weight loss plan/seeing a dietitian, and has no craving whatsoever after 40+ years of smoking.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 27, 2009)

Supe said:


> He went from *two packs of Marlboro Reds *a day to nothing at all with Chantix...


Damn, I had a coughing fit from just reading that.


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## Supe (May 27, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Damn, I had a coughing fit from just reading that.


Yeah, it was bad. He had quit the first time after smoking about a pack of 100 Lights a day. After we got sick, it was upped to two packs of Reds. It's amazing how we were so accustomed to hearing him constantly coughing and having to clear phlegm out of his throat, only to turn virtually silent after quitting. Even the snoring went away.


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## Guest (May 27, 2009)

Congratulations!! I hope you are able to succeed. 



MGX said:


> So in short:
> Get something to chew (in bulk)
> 
> *Avoid alcohol (studies show a link between alcohol and smoking)*
> ...


How about expanding the thought to avoiding anything that will make you fall back into a habit of wanting to smoke? Ex Mrs. JR had stopped smoking for nearly 10 yrs and picked up back up before our last split when she started hanging out at the bar and falling into old habits. Otherwise, it would not have been an issue.



MA_PE said:


> 1) good choice to stop smoking. Honestly, in today's society knowing what we know about tobacco products, and the fact that more and more places are banning it to the point where smokers are treated like outcasts, I truly don't understand why anyone would smoke anymore. Personally I don't really care if someone chooses to smoke or not, but I get really bothered by second-hand smoke so I'll support banning it in public places all the time. You want to smoke up a storm in your own house, I say have at it.


I have mixed feelings myself about the 'approach' for smokers and the sale/taxing of tobacco products but I tend to get on a high horse about smoking in poorly ventilated areas (i.e. indoors). That's all I will say about that. 



mudpuppy said:


> It does have side effects. Be sure to talk to the doctor about these. It tends to cause mood swings.


rlyflag:

JR


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 27, 2009)

No thank you on the Chantix. I had bad depression when I was young (like in middle school) with thoughts of suicide, and from what I've read that would put me at high risk for the negative Chantix affects. A coworker took it and it made him psychotic, like he had thoughts of killing or hurting other people. His doctor never discussed those possible side affects with him and he literally thought he was losing his mind. He confessed the bad thoughts and that he thought he was going crazy to me, that's when I said, well, you are on Chantix. He googled and stopped taking it immediately.

As for when pregnant.... I smoked. I cut down a lot, but did smoke.

It's just sad because I love smoking. Nothing like sitting on the back porch with a cool breeze and a warm cigarette in my hand. I thoroughly, really, and truly love smoking.


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## MA_PE (May 27, 2009)

> And by the way, I completely disagree with MA_PE's #3: addiction and willpower have nothing to do with each other.


I believe (as MGX said) the physical "addiction" part a/k/a withdrawal is over after a few days, then it's a mental/habitual problem. If what you say is true then an "addict" could never quit something permanently without some sort of lifetime physical interaction (surgery, fulltime medication, etc.), My point is that one needs to resolve to make a lifestyle change and stay with it. That takes willpower and commitment. Same is true for overeaters/sexaholics/drug users/gamblers/serial killers and any other compulsive behavior you can think of.

Of course there are situations where doctors have found links between checmical imbalances in the brain and compulsive behaviors, but I refuse to believe that every smoker falls into that category.

just my :2cents: YMMV


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 27, 2009)

MA PE ~ Are you an ex smoker? Have you ever fought an addiction? Not trying to be nasty, just curious.

On a side note: As for the cost of smoking, it doesn't affect my family or our budget. We have 3 accounts. Mine, His, and Ours. Both paychecks go into the Ours. 10% of mine gets moved into the Mine account, 10% of his paycheck goes into the His. I buy my cigarettes from my personal money. He buys his wine, music, gaming stuff, etc from His money. We also purchase lunches from our personal money too. You can add stuff for lunch to the grocery list, like sandwiches, frozen meals, etc., but anything from an "out" place, like fast food, comes from personal money. We also pay for our haircuts out of personal money, but that was my decision because I felt guilty spending $100 every 6 weeks from the Our money. It's a deal for him because his hair cuts are so cheap. Having this three account was the only way we could see to make our marriage work, especially when you hear about couples getting divorced over money issues. After Katrina when our life was in shambles we stopped this method for awhile and a lot of resentment grew between us over how our money was getting spent. Luckily we got back on track quickly. The best part about this system is we don't have to call each other and ask "Can I buy this?", doing that made both of us feel like small children.


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## MA_PE (May 27, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> MA PE ~ Are you an ex smoker? Have you ever fought an addiction? Not trying to be nasty, just curious.


I smoked off/on for a few years. I didn't like it so I stopped and don't smoke any more. that's probably why I'm more sensitive to second-hand smoke.

To answer your second question - I don't know. I have some habits that I'd like to change.

read this wiki entry addiction presenting physical versus psychological dependencies and the word "addiction".

If the addiction is psychological with no physiological component then willpower or the "willingness to change" is needed to kick the habit. Without it one is doomed to fail. Hence my statement that addiciton and willpower are very closely related.


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## GulfCoastCivil (May 29, 2009)

UGH! I'm so frustrated. I have filled out every form the day I got it and sent it in. I filled out the form to join the be smoke free program the day my employer gave it to me. The day after I received the packet from the program which outlines how to obtain medicine, I went to the pharmacy to get my patches like the form told me. The pharmacist said there is a state law which says that they cannot run something through insurance without a prescription. Which tells me how poorly thought out this program is when it is with a Mississippi only insurance company and in their packet they tell you to do something that's illegal. I showed the pharmacist the packet showing where it said to just bring the form to her, so she called the insurance company. When she got off the phone with them she told me that what the insurance company instructed her to do was devious and illegal and she would not do it, something about putting in a false script number or something like that. I don't blame her, I wouldn't do it either, and for an insurance company to tell her to do that as their policy is just wrong. So, instead she called my two doctors offices to get them to write me a script for the patches. So today the pharmacy calls me and says my doctor sent in a script for wellbutrin. I called the doctor's office and they told me that the pharmacist just faxed over the form and did not include a note on what I wanted. They are going to straighten it out today.

I didn't receive the smoke free packet until Wednesday. No tobacco policy starts Monday. It's barely enough time to get the stuff I need for my June 1 quit date. If I had procrastinated at all I wouldn't make it. I think my company should push back the start date since they did not give out the forms soon enough for people to get stuff done. Some people may need to make an appointment and see their doctor before getting their prescriptions or plans together, and you have to wait for the packet to do that.


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## MA_PE (May 29, 2009)

GCC: At least you're making some good positive steps. don't let the frustration diminish your drive!


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## MGX (May 29, 2009)

No plan to quit smoking goes unfettered. You'll have setbacks or maybe you'll give up and start smoking again and forget the whole thing.

Most who set out to quit take about six attempts to actually pull through and I understand why.

I do agree that a strong desire to cease is required and I wish the best to you.


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## frazil (May 29, 2009)

good luck GulfCoastCivil!! hang in there.


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## TXengrChickPE (May 30, 2009)

IIRC, I have quit smoking 10 or 12 times... and that's only counting the times where I made it more than a week.

The most recent (and so far, still successful) try was when I found out I was pregnant 2 years ago. I'm still not sure how I managed it... I was in the middle of studying for the PE, was having some marital "issues", and work was crazy-busy... and, oh yeah, I had just found out that I was pregnant *while on birth control*!! And, hubby refused to quit with me because he was "stressed". (He did quit later... but only because I refused to kiss him when he smelled like smoke)

Previous attempts were usually w/ hubby or a friend. I never tried the patches or gum or meds.

My usual reason for not making it was my partner giving up... I am another person who truly enjoyed smoking.

Good luck.


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## maryannette (May 30, 2009)

Good luck on quitting. I never enjoyed smoking and was never "a smoker". I know it can be hard to quit, but I hope you'll find it easy this time.


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## MGX (May 30, 2009)

I enjoyed smoking for years. After a point I didn't enjoy it nearly as much and then soon after it felt like a chore. Perhaps the tobacco makers changed the formulas or increased the ammonia because ammonia was all I could taste from any cigarette. If smoking is that sort of experience I'll pass.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 1, 2009)

Thanks for the encouragement. Still don't have the patch situation straightened out. I'm wearing the last one from the last time I quit. I'll just pay out of pocket if it's not straight today, and submit the receipt to my company. I'm sure they'll fight me on it, but at least they will be aware that we were not given enough time to get what we needed.

Went to the pharmacy yesterday and the lady behind the counter said this is a big issue, the quit smoking stuff. That a few months ago a bunch of companies put these posters up all over the work place about the wonders of Chantix and stating that it would be covered by insurance. A lot of people made doc appts, paid the copay, got the script and dropped it off. When they went to pick it up insurance would not cover the cost. Chantix is $120 a month. She also said that it's strange how the price of cigarettes went up and magically so did the cost of Chantix, now it's $140 a month.


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## MA_PE (Jun 1, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. Still don't have the patch situation straightened out. I'm wearing the last one from the last time I quit. I'll just pay out of pocket if it's not straight today, and submit the receipt to my company. I'm sure they'll fight me on it, but at least they will be aware that we were not given enough time to get what we needed.
> Went to the pharmacy yesterday and the lady behind the counter said this is a big issue, the quit smoking stuff. That a few months ago a bunch of companies put these posters up all over the work place about the wonders of Chantix and stating that it would be covered by insurance. A lot of people made doc appts, paid the copay, got the script and dropped it off. When they went to pick it up insurance would not cover the cost. Chantix is $120 a month. She also said that it's strange how the price of cigarettes went up and magically so did the cost of Chantix, now it's $140 a month.



AAAH. the "vice" or "sin" tax. :smileyballs:


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 1, 2009)

Just got back from the pharmacy. The lady who has been helping me all along was there. She said that my doctor didn't send over the corrected form (for the patches) until Friday at 4pm. They ran it through insurance and it was denied. She said this was surprising because she had spoke with them the first day and they said I had my PA (don't know what that means) number and was all set for the smoking cessation stuff. The hotline for the pharmacy to call closed at 4pm on Friday. She said she was going to call today as soon as she got a chance and see if she can straighten it out.


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## maryannette (Jun 1, 2009)

Hopefully, you'll need only a short time on patches. Good luck.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm glad that none of the folks I currently hang out with are smokers. Given that the wife works in a cancer related research lab, I suppose its not that surprising no one there does. No one I deal with here does either. Which is good, because it sucks to work next to someone who smells smokey.

For a while in college, every one of my friends smoked it seemed and it was hard to get away from. Being asthmatic, I'm real sensitive to it.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2009)

Awesome signature line GCC - good luck!! 

VTE -

I have found that smoking vs. non-smoking enclaves seems to switch around a bit. Currently, I am not really around many people who smoke, except for my excursions out for field work and then they all seem to smoke. One thing I found odd is that there seems to be more smokers in Michigan than in Florida (generally speaking). I still don't have a theory as to why ....

JR


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## snickerd3 (Jun 1, 2009)

My mom's eye dr told her this week that smoking or being around a lot of second hand smoke plays a major role in whether or not you would get cataracts later in life. Holds true in my family at least. Those who smoked or lived in a smoking household ended up with cataracts, those that didn't, did not get cataracts.


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## chaosiscash (Jun 2, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> Given that the wife works in a cancer related research lab, I suppose its not that surprising no one there does.


I've always been surprised at stuff like that. My wife is a nurse, and you would be amazed at the number of her coworkers (RNs and MDs) that smoke, even though you would assume that those folks are very knowledgable of the health effects.


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## MA_PE (Jun 2, 2009)

chaosiscash said:


> I've always been surprised at stuff like that. My wife is a nurse, and you would be amazed at the number of her coworkers (RNs and MDs) that smoke, even though you would assume that those folks are very knowledgable of the health effects.


I think it has something to do with a "service" type job where you're responding to the uncontrolled needs of other people, nurses are always on duty and the call button could ring at any time, waitresses, retail people, etc. same thing they are always on the ready. Taking a quick "smoke break" adds a level of justification to taking a breather and not responding immediately. You can say to other co-workers "cover for me, I'm going for a smoke" which sounds better than "cover for me, I just want to sit for 5-10 minutes".


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## cement (Jun 2, 2009)

jregieng said:


> Awesome signature line GCC - good luck!!
> JR


does that update automaticly like the fabulous EB results clock? now that would be awesome!


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 2, 2009)

oh yeah, it automatically updates. Found it on a weird site too. I think now it's available through like smokefreequitmeter.com or something, but I originally found it on www.haqur.com. Now it has an advertisement for e cigs on the screen you fill it out on, so I'm guessing the haqur guy sold it.


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## csb (Jun 2, 2009)

Okay, how many cigarettes are in a pack? 35 seems like a lot for 1 day and 17 hours...but I've never smoked. Had a grandmother who was a 3-4 packs a day smoker.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jun 2, 2009)

csb said:


> Okay, how many cigarettes are in a pack? 35 seems like a lot for 1 day and 17 hours...but I've never smoked. Had a grandmother who was a 3-4 packs a day smoker.


20 per pack.


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## maryannette (Jun 2, 2009)

I think there are 20 cigs in a pack. My parents smoked.

edit: you beat me to it.


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## csb (Jun 2, 2009)

I forgot to add...congratulations on making it this far!

And thanks, folks.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 3, 2009)

Finally got my patches today at lunch! Woo Hoo!! No copay or anything. Pharmacist just handed me 4 boxes of one week supply.

After leaving the pharmacy my brain was like "you dummy, you could have smoked a 3 extra days if you had just decided to wait for the patches.", but my brain does that after quitting.

Thank goodness for my coworker who had extra patches from his last quit and lent me two to get me through.

eta: I have this quit keeper program on my computer to track stuff too. I've been using it to post because it stays the same and I can come back and see where I've been. Anyway... (I just have to hit Ctrl + F12 and it automatically pastes it)

I have been tobacco free for 2 Days, 12 hours, 53 minutes and 45 seconds (2 days). I have saved $12.68 by not smoking 50 cigarettes. My Last Cigarette: 6/1/2009 12:00 AM


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 3, 2009)

Testing, I fixed my last cigarette time to be more exact...

I have been tobacco free for 2 Days, 13 hours, 40 minutes and 2 seconds (2 days). I have saved $12.84 by not smoking 51 cigarettes. My Last Cigarette: 5/31/2009 11:15 PM


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## TXengrChickPE (Jun 3, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> Testing, I fixed my last cigarette time to be more exact...


That is so engineerish of you.


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## Paul S (Jun 3, 2009)

Good Job!


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## jeb6294 (Jun 4, 2009)

VTEnviro said:


> I'm glad that none of the folks I currently hang out with are smokers. Given that the wife works in a cancer related research lab, I suppose its not that surprising no one there does. No one I deal with here does either. Which is good, because it sucks to work next to someone who smells smokey.
> For a while in college, every one of my friends smoked it seemed and it was hard to get away from. Being asthmatic, I'm real sensitive to it.


Move to Ohio, or one of the other states that has passed a smoking ban in public places. It is great going out now because there is no smoking anywhere indoors and there's not (supposed to be) any smoking within so-many feet of entrances. A lot of bar owners complained when it was passed (by a large majority of voters) but I know the bar/seafood place we go to a lot has actually expanded and had to buy several high chairs because the number of people, especially families, coming in to eat went up dramatically....it has great food, but it was small enough that one person lighting up could stink up the whole room.

Now when we're out of town it actually takes a second or two to comprehend when a host/hostess asks you whether you want to sit in smoking or non-.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 4, 2009)

jeb6294 said:


> Move to Ohio, or one of the other states that has passed a smoking ban in public places. It is great going out now because there is no smoking anywhere indoors and there's not (supposed to be) any smoking within so-many feet of entrances. A lot of bar owners complained when it was passed (by a large majority of voters) but I know the bar/seafood place we go to a lot has actually expanded and had to buy several high chairs because the number of people, especially families, coming in to eat went up dramatically....it has great food, but it was small enough that one person lighting up could stink up the whole room.
> Now when we're out of town it actually takes a second or two to comprehend when a host/hostess asks you whether you want to sit in smoking or non-.


The city I work in and do most stuff (eating and shopping) is like that as well. Even New Orleans is like that now, but you can smoke in bars as long as less then 20% of their revenue comes from food. I think it's a whole state law in Louisiana though. In Mississippi it's just a few cities. In this city you it is also prohibited to smoke outside in public areas, like fishing piers and parks, although they let people slide and smoke in the parking lots.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 4, 2009)

I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.


I agree with this whole heartedly!

And rule at my work is even worse. We aren't allowed to use tobacco products on neighboring property, even if the owner says it's okay. But at least it's not a gubment rule, just one my work was conned into adopting to save money on insurance. Two of the non smokers are so happy about this rule, but little do they know that the door has been opened. What rules is the insurance company going to coerce my company into applying next year? No sugar, no fried foods, weekly cholesterol checks??


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.


100% agree with this.


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## MGX (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm always startled when I visit Texas and find so many restaurants allowing smoking. Oklahoma banned smoking in bars and most other places years ago.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 4, 2009)

I think NY state was the first state to do so after NYC did it a year or so prior. I was a college student (maybe grad student?) in the Bronx at that point when the city did it and it made bars so much more pleasant to go to. I didn't show up for class stinking like a tail pipe anymore.

Vermont had banned it by the time I moved there and its also banned in Mass. So it's been 7 or 8 years for me going to smoke free places.

I went into a bar in Wyoming a couple years back and was surprised to see people lighting up. It was an Ohhhh yeahhh this is still allowed in some places sort of moment.


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## jeb6294 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.


True...except that this was put on the ballot and voted on by the citizens of the State of Ohio. If I remember right it passed with almost 70% voting for it.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 4, 2009)

jeb6294 said:


> True...except that this was put on the ballot and voted on by the citizens of the State of Ohio. If I remember right it passed with almost 70% voting for it.



I bet you could put a measure on the ballot guranteeing everyone a $100,000 salary and it would pass by 70%. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 1. constitutional or 2. feasible. There is this pervasive thought in the world right now that if the majority of people believe something then it must be true and just. This country was not set up as a democracy. The founders knew that a democracy wouldn't work. This horse shit with smoking bans is just another bunch of populist bullshit and powergrab by the ruling class, aka politicians.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I bet you could put a measure on the ballot guranteeing everyone a $100,000 salary and it would pass by 70%. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 1. constitutional or 2. feasible. There is this pervasive thought in the world right now that if the majority of people believe something then it must be true and just. This country was not set up as a democracy. The founders knew that a democracy wouldn't work. This horse shit with smoking bans is just another bunch of populist bullshit and powergrab by the ruling class, aka politicians.



I agree

Not to change the subject, but my quit keeper program lets me program a hotkey to auto insert my stats in stuff. I keep switching it, but everything I come up with has another function already associated with it, so half the time I get my stats and the other half it does the original function. It can be any combination of two keys, but Alt, Ctrl, or Shift has to be one of the keys. Suggestions??


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 4, 2009)

I have been tobacco free for 3 Days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 7 seconds (3 days). I have saved $18.07 by not smoking 72 cigarettes. My Last Cigarette: 5/31/2009 11:15 PM

Okay, so I tried Alt + S.... Does that have any pre programmed functions anyone is aware of??


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## roadwreck (Jun 4, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.


That's beside the point, smoking is vulgar and the government needs to save us from ourselves.


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## Supe (Jun 4, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> I have been tobacco free for 3 Days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 7 seconds (3 days). I have saved $18.07 by not smoking 72 cigarettes. My Last Cigarette: 5/31/2009 11:15 PM
> Okay, so I tried Alt + S.... Does that have any pre programmed functions anyone is aware of??


Does this help?:

http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic1841.html


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 4, 2009)

roadwreck said:


> That's beside the point, smoking is vulgar and the government needs to save us from ourselves.


Here's the dichotomy, though:

A)They smoke in Europe.

B)Everything is beter in Europe.

This is the kind of logic bomb that Captain Kirk would use to get the evil robots to self destruct.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 4, 2009)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Here's the dichotomy, though:
> A)They smoke in Europe.
> 
> B)Everything is beter in Europe.
> ...



Holy shit man. You just blew my mind.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 4, 2009)




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## Guest (Jun 7, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> I look at this as a private property rights issue. If an owner wants to allow smoking in his/her facility he/she should be allowed to have smokers. This is just more obtrusive gubment regulation stomping on private property rights. Don't get me wrong, I absoultely won't go into a smoking facility, but that's my choice to make. I don't need big brother to make it for me.





GulfCoastCivil said:


> I agree with this whole heartedly!
> And rule at my work is even worse. We aren't allowed to use tobacco products on neighboring property, even if the owner says it's okay. But at least it's not a gubment rule, just one my work was conned into adopting to save money on insurance. Two of the non smokers are so happy about this rule, but little do they know that the door has been opened. What rules is the insurance company going to coerce my company into applying next year? No sugar, no fried foods, weekly cholesterol checks??


Well .. I respectfully disagree from the perspective that it is a public health issue and not a property rights issue. Cigarette smoke is a known carcinogen supported through numerous studies. Bans on indoor smoking I think are justifiable since most places are not ventilated well enough to mitigate the exposure. Smoking outdoors - I might tend to agree it may be excessive based on the body of knowledge that I have familiarity.



> I went into a bar in Wyoming a couple years back and was surprised to see people lighting up. It was an Ohhhh yeahhh this is still allowed in some places sort of moment.


I had the same experience when I moved to MI - I had forgotten places do not have any bans. There have been a few initiatives brought up in the legislature but they seem to get sidelined with how much/how extensive. Many restaraunts have voluntarily gone smoke-free in anticipation of the smoking ban.



Chucktown PE said:


> I bet you could put a measure on the ballot guranteeing everyone a $100,000 salary and it would pass by 70%. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 1. constitutional or 2. feasible. There is this pervasive thought in the world right now that if the majority of people believe something then it must be true and just. This country was not set up as a democracy. The founders knew that a democracy wouldn't work. This horse shit with smoking bans is just another bunch of populist bullshit and powergrab by the ruling class, aka politicians.


Based on my previous statement - I don't believe the property rights of the individual outweigh the public health concern of the public at large. Respectfully submitted.



Capt Worley PE said:


> This is the kind of logic bomb that Captain Kirk would use to get the evil robots to self destruct.


Ut oh .. I feel my argument losing traction ....

JR


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## Desert Engineer (Jun 7, 2009)

A twist on the smoking/non-smoking isssue is that I know at least a dozen people (mainly construction workers) that have switched from smoking to chew. I wonder if the dentist charges extra for looking/working on their gnarly mouths. Seriously, sometimes (with my sun glasses on) I find myself staring at the black spots on their teeth and gums as they talk; then when we're in meetings, they grab an impromptu spittoon and drool in it every couple of minutes. The upside is that the constuction trailer smells as good as a construction trailer can.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jun 8, 2009)

jregieng said:


> Well .. I respectfully disagree from the perspective that it is a public health issue and not a property rights issue. Cigarette smoke is a known carcinogen supported through numerous studies. Bans on indoor smoking I think are justifiable since most places are not ventilated well enough to mitigate the exposure. Smoking outdoors - I might tend to agree it may be excessive based on the body of knowledge that I have familiarity.


Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.

What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 8, 2009)

The women's temperance unions ran a pretty good smear campaign against akkie-hol back in the day. There just aren't many alive to remember it. It was probably much worse than the one being run against tobacco.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 8, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.
> What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.


Thanks for responding. I agree with every word of this. Also, I will note that I absolutely hate cigarette smoke. It makes me cough for days and gives me an instantaneous headache. If I smell smoke in a restaurant I immediately turn around and walk out the door unless it's a business dinner. However, I have no right to use the police power of government to keep people from smoking on someone else's private property.

Here's another little conundrum. Some of my parents' good friends smoke in their house. My parents won't go over there any more because cigarette smoke does the same thing to them as it does to me. But they smoked with their kids in the house all their lives. So infants, who have absolutely no choice in the matter, are being subjected to cigarette smoke. Should the government police their houses to prevent them from exposing their children to 2nd hand smoke? What about women who smoke or drink when they are pregnant? Again, this is all a very slippery slope. While it sucks to have to put up with things like cigarette smoke, the loss of liberty is much worse.


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 8, 2009)

Desert Engineer said:


> A twist on the smoking/non-smoking isssue is that I know at least a dozen people (mainly construction workers) that have switched from smoking to chew. I wonder if the dentist charges extra for looking/working on their gnarly mouths. Seriously, sometimes (with my sun glasses on) I find myself staring at the black spots on their teeth and gums as they talk; then when we're in meetings, they grab an impromptu spittoon and drool in it every couple of minutes. The upside is that the constuction trailer smells as good as a construction trailer can.


Chew and snuff are also banned at work and on neighboring properties. But I think the chew guys cheat. Now they spit into dark colored cups rather than clear water bottles.


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## csb (Jun 8, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> *Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not.* If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.
> What you propose is a very slippery slope. For instance, it is known that drinking causes health issues (most notably liver problems), and the effects of drinking and driving are also well known. By extrapolation, it could be said that having bars and restaurants that serve alcohol is a public health issue. The government tried banning alcohol one time, and we all know what happened then. This time, with smoking, they have run a carefully executed smear campaign against tobacco to avoid the backlash of smoking bans. I'm not trying to mitigate the health issues surrounding tobacco use, just pointing out that the government is manipulating the populace...again.


I'm pretty sure that if an establishment has business practices that cause it to lose money that the government is going to get involved (see ex. GM, Chrysler).


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## MA_PE (Jun 8, 2009)

GulfCoastCivil said:


> Chew and snuff are also banned at work and on neighboring properties. But I think the chew guys cheat. Now they spit into dark colored cups rather than clear water bottles.


well even that sounds like an improvement to me.


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## vollEngineer (Jun 8, 2009)

Since you asked for advice, I can tell you what helped me quit smoking, stop eating meat, lose 40 pounds, and pay off my debts. I never told myself that I would never have another cigarette or eat meat or cake or shop or whatever. I give myself real permission to do any or all of those things. I literally tell myself - and mean it - that I can eat a steak or have a cigarette or whatever if i want to any time i choose. Then, when I am about to order some food or am offered a cigarette, I think "do i want it or not" (not whether "can I have it or not"). I consider the options and every time I choose against it.

The choices regarding cigarettes, for me, were easy - money, smell, health, stigma, and (for the last 2 years) my boyfriend wishes I wouldn't versus 15 minutes of a luxurious smoke break every time for 3-4 years now. You can do it. Try not to be anxious. Take your time and enjoy the progress you are making!!

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2009)

I hope you are still going strong GCC!! 



wilheldp_PE said:


> Everybody has the right to either spend their money at an establishment or not. If they think that smoking poses a risk to their health, then they are free to not spend their money in places that allow smoking. If the owner of that place determines that the lost revenue from allowing smoking is outweighing his perceived benefits, then he is within his rights to ban smoking on his property. But the government does not have the right to come in and tell the property owner that he is not allowed to have people smoking on his property.


It is a lot more complicated than that - and in fact, I will defer answering here and take it to the political thread. 

JR

P.S. - Linky for re-direct


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## GulfCoastCivil (Jun 19, 2009)

Just wanted to post that I'm still smoke free. Came real close last Saturday when I got stranded after tubing (sorta, it's a long story) by a friend and had to walk over 4 miles in a bathing suit and aqua socks after being in the water for 7 hours, but I made it through. By the time we got to the car I pretty much had no skin left on the bottom of my feet, it was really gross and painful. Wanted a cig real bad, but I pulled through.

Haven't been on much cause I'm RPRing.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2009)

GCC,

It's all good as long as you have been able to keep at it!! Awesomeness!! 

JR


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