# Are the SE Pass Rates what you expect?



## McEngr (Nov 8, 2012)

After noticing the last stated results for the NCEES 16 hour SE were around 45% and 46% for each exam component, I am curious what people feel about these results. Are the pass rates a statement of who's who or should it be easier?

Thoughts?


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## kevo_55 (Nov 8, 2012)

Good poll McEngr!

Well, word is that CA is starting to take notice of the passing rate for the new SE exam is somewhat high for them.

I personally would like something a bit lower but if the people are comming out "smarter" every year I wouldn't mind. I'm just not sure that a national exam or more education can prove this.


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## McEngr (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks kevo! I wonder if SEAOC or other chapters will do something about this? I think NCEES will have a tough time making the Vertical equal to the same difficulty as the Lateral - especially if California or Washington start influencing things. I personally felt that they were equally difficult - but only because the level of detailed calculations on such a broad range of topics was not anticipated.

When I took the WA SE III (which many have said is more difficult than the CA SE III), I felt like I was in an 8-hour graduate school exam that required a B-level grade to "pass".

The National SE was more do-able: there was enough time, lots of multiple choice to build confidence, and the afternoon was what one could expect.


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## dakota_79 (Nov 8, 2012)

Great poll!

On passing percentage, I'd be really really curious to know what they actually are, but it's impossible to really know in the same way we know what the pass rate is for a single component exam. Lower bound on what it actually currently is would be in the ballpark of 45% x 46% = 21%, but it's likely a bit higher, as those 45% and 46% numbers aren't mutually exclusive (there's surely a high correlation between passing either component and passing both).

The MS is becoming more important by the hour, or by the code or standard reissue cycle, whichever is less. Or as a well renowned colleague likes to say: soon you're going to need a PhD in Load Application just to determine your building's design loads.


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## Layman (Nov 9, 2012)

dakota_79 said:


> Great poll!
> 
> On passing percentage, I'd be really really curious to know what they actually are, but it's impossible to really know in the same way we know what the pass rate is for a single component exam. Lower bound on what it actually currently is would be in the ballpark of 45% x 46% = 21%, but it's likely a bit higher, as those 45% and 46% numbers aren't mutually exclusive (there's surely a high correlation between passing either component and passing both).


Let's say the 45% Vertical lucky ones have a 70% chance to pass the Lateral, this leads to a first time passing rate of 32% for both components. Anybody remember the Washington Structural III's passing rates?


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## kevo_55 (Nov 9, 2012)

McEngr said:


> Thanks kevo! I wonder if SEAOC or other chapters will do something about this? I think NCEES will have a tough time making the Vertical equal to the same difficulty as the Lateral - especially if California or Washington start influencing things. I personally felt that they were equally difficult - but only because the level of detailed calculations on such a broad range of topics was not anticipated.


I'm not sure what SEAOC would do about this, but I do know that they are having "problem writing" sessions around the LAX airport maybe twice a year.

I can see that if CA or WA really start pushing their agenda, the SE exam will have passing rates around ~30% on the lateral portion.


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## McEngr (Nov 11, 2012)

Another poll question I didn't consider is this:

Do you feel that an advanced structural license in addition to the Civil PE should be compensated additionally? If so, by what percent? (For example, if one bills at $90/hour, is it prudent to bill at $95-$100 given that a structural could warrant a higher rate?)


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## McEngr (Nov 12, 2012)

The WA SE III had a pass rate ranging from 22%-28%, but I never saw it in the 30's. It was truly an elitist exam - the year I took it, no one in Oregon passed. There were at least 13-14 examinees at the Eugene location.


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## kevo_55 (Nov 13, 2012)

McEngr said:


> Another poll question I didn't consider is this:
> 
> Do you feel that an advanced structural license in addition to the Civil PE should be compensated additionally? If so, by what percent? (For example, if one bills at $90/hour, is it prudent to bill at $95-$100 given that a structural could warrant a higher rate?)


I personally would say no, just simply just because not all states use the SE license as an "add on" license. Billing should really depend on your job title &amp; the licenses that you hold.

Then again, I am 100% in favor of having the SE license being an "add on" license in all states.... but that won't happen anytime soon.


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## McEngr (Nov 19, 2012)

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/ap12stats.shtml

The link shown in the CA board for pass rates seems to reflect the national average (although CA is slightly less than National average), and it also seems to indicate that the national average for passing both exams in the same semi-annual date is approximately 30-35%. It's approx 40% for the vertical and 35% for the lateral in CA. Therefore, since the national average is around 45%, I think it's reasonable to assume that 1 out of 3 examinees will end up passing both days on the first attempt (aka 33% give or take a few points).


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