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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

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## ptatohed (Oct 24, 2017)

I received this too.  Wow, I passed the Civil exams in this order CA-Survey --&gt;  NCEES 8hr P&amp;P --&gt;  CA-Seismic.  And many people I know passed them in various order.  Now it looks like you have to pass the P&amp;P first.  I have a friend who has passed the Survey and is now working on the Seismic.  Can he continue until he passes the Seismic or will he need to pass the P&amp;P first?  Per the last bullet, are they not allowing the submission of post cards along with the application?


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## ptatohed (Oct 24, 2017)

Oh, just noticed the addition of year-round testing for the state Civil exams. 


New Process for Applying for Licensure as a Civil Engineer:


Do not submit your application for licensure until after you have passed the NCEES Principles &amp; Practice (P&amp;P) exam.

Once you have passed the NCEES P&amp;P exam and have the required qualifying experience, then submit your application for licensure to the Board.

There is no final filing date. Applications can be submitted and will be accepted on a continuous basis.

You must allow the Board a minimum of 60 days from when you submit your application to process your application. Do not contact the Board within the initial 60-day period to ask about the status of your application. If you have not received any communication from the Board after the initial 60-day period, you may contact the Board's Licensing Unit at (916) 263-2222 or [email protected].

Do not contact the Board to verify receipt of your application. If you wish to have proof that your application was received, you need to use a delivery method that provides tracking and delivery confirmation.

The state-specific Civil Engineer exams (seismic principles and engineering surveying) are offered on a continuous quarterly basis starting with the quarter that begins on April 1, 2018. You will be authorized to sit for the exams in the quarter following the quarter in which your application is approved by the Board. You may sit for each exam once per quarter.

If you need to retake the state-specific exam(s), you will need to submit the Re-Examination Form and appropriate exam fee(s). You will be authorized to sit for the exam(s) in the quarter following the quarter in which the exam fee(s) is received and processed by the Board.


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## leggo PE (Oct 24, 2017)

Wait, the seismic and surveying exams will now be offered on a "continuous quarterly" basis? What does that mean, that they will be offered basically year round, but that you cannot register to take them until the following quarter, once your application has been approved?

Edit: To clarify, you cannot register to take the seismic or surveying exam until the quarter following the quarter in which your application was approved?


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

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## leggo PE (Oct 24, 2017)

I wonder how all of this will have an effect on the releasing of exam results.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

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## leggo PE (Oct 24, 2017)

fireguy_PE said:


> I don't think it will. The seismic and surveying California-specific exams are a component of the application for licensure as a Civil Engineer. Insofar as the 8-hour exam is still only offered twice each year, the issuance of licenses will probably stay on the same schedule.


But traditionally, it seemed like the Board would coordinate the results of the state exams with that of the PE exams at least in part. At least, over the last few cycles, the state exams would come within a day or two after CA released the national exam. I suppose you can now extract the state exams from that, because after this cycle, people will not be taking them until they've passed the national exam.

I guess it's just maybe hopeful thinking on my part that future PE exam takers in CA will get their results the first day states start to release them.


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## CAPLS (Oct 24, 2017)

ptatohed - approved applicants, already in the pipeline, can proceed as they currently are.

leggo - yes, the two California state civil exams will be administered essentially everyday the CBT centers are open beginning April 2018.  Basically speaking the applications can be submitted on a flow basis and once approved, expect to first sit for exam(s) in the quarter after approval.

leggo and fireguy - For the two California Civil exams, exam results are expected to be released on a monthly schedule following the previous month's administration.  At this time, it is anticipated that results may release about mid-month for the prior month's results, but this is still being finalized.  For the other "non-continuous" exams, it will remain as 30-45 days after administration as it is now.

Essentially, the big change is that people who are ready to become licensed can submit their application anytime throughout the year, as soon as they are ready, without having to worry about a final filing date.  And instead of a 3 week exam administration window to schedule for the California Civil exams, approved candidates can schedule anytime within the next 90 day window.  Same goes for candidates needing to re-take one or both exams - after receiving fail results, submit the Retake form to BPELSG and candidates will be scheduled accordingly.  Approved candidates will still receive an email with an Authorization To Test notice each time which tells them to schedule with Prometric.  Approved candidates will have the opportunity to take exam(s) up to 4 times a year - which translates to more opportunities to become licensed sooner after demonstrating the experience (and education) requirements.

This process is now entirely independent of the NCEES exam process.


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## leggo PE (Oct 24, 2017)

That sounds awesome, @CAPLS! Thanks for the run-down.


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## JMT (Oct 25, 2017)

@CAPLS, I apologize as I believe my question below has been answered by the "Application Process for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors" flow chart on the BPELSG website, but I wanted to confirm it prior  to dispersing the information to associates/recent graduates:

Since an applicant does not submit their application for licensure until after they have passed the NCEES Principles &amp; Practice (P&amp;P) exam, does that mean an applicant can take the NCEES P&amp;P exam anytime after passing their FE exam?  e.g. a recent graduate with a BSCE could take and pass the NCEES P&amp;P exam at the first testing cycle after graduation, and if the tester passed the exam the tester would wait until he/she has the required qualifying experience before submitting an application for licensure to the Board.  At that point the Board would review the application and allow/deny the applicant to take the two (2) California Civil exams, based on their application... etc.

I ask this is because the FAQ appear to reference the old way of obtaining a PE license on the BPELSG website, among other items noticed on the website.

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/faq_eng.pdfhttp://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/faq_eng.pdf  FAQ 4

The FAQ link above is linked twice from the following link, among multiple other links: http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/appinstpe.shtml


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## ptatohed (Oct 25, 2017)

As seen with the change to year-round FE testing, there is a phenomenon where when hard annual (or bi-annual) application due-dates are removed, attendance to the exams drops.  The psychological reasoning is that the examinee thinks "I'm not quite ready, I want to study just a bit more, so I'll simply submit my application next month".  Next month, same logic repeats.  I wonder if we'll see this with the year-round testing of the CA Civil exams.


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## CAPLS (Oct 25, 2017)

JMT said:


> @CAPLS, I apologize as I believe my question below has been answered by the "Application Process for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors" flow chart on the BPELSG website, but I wanted to confirm it prior  to dispersing the information to associates/recent graduates:
> 
> Since an applicant does not submit their application for licensure until after they have passed the NCEES Principles &amp; Practice (P&amp;P) exam, does that mean an applicant can take the NCEES P&amp;P exam anytime after passing their FE exam?  e.g. a recent graduate with a BSCE could take and pass the NCEES P&amp;P exam at the first testing cycle after graduation, and if the tester passed the exam the tester would wait until he/she has the required qualifying experience before submitting an application for licensure to the Board.  At that point the Board would review the application and allow/deny the applicant to take the two (2) California Civil exams, based on their application... etc.
> 
> ...


JMT - the FAQ document is in the process of being updated to reflect changes.


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## ptatohed (Oct 25, 2017)

@CAPLS, what's the reason for requiring an applicant to first pass the NCEES 8hr before applying for/taking the two state civil exams?  Just curious.


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## AyanHein (Oct 25, 2017)

Are we short on licensed engineers in CA? Is that why state is making it easier for future engineers? First, you don't need to have 2 years experience to take NCEES P&amp;P exam as before. Ok i can understand on this one since some other states don't make it as a requirement.  Now you can take 2 state exams 4 times a year? Just my 2 cents.


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## ptatohed (Oct 25, 2017)

AyanHein said:


> Are we short on licensed engineers in CA? Is that why state is making it easier for future engineers? First, you don't need to have 2 years experience to take NCEES P&amp;P exam as before. Ok i can understand on this one since some other states don't make it as a requirement.  Now you can take 2 state exams 4 times a year? Just my 2 cents.


Why do you assume the changes will result in more licensed engineers?  I think the year round (quarterly) testing is a very nice convenience but I don't think it will make people pass who were not already going to pass.  You might have a some examinees that pass 3 months sooner than they otherwise might have but I don't think that will increase the overall number of licensed engineers.  

In fact, I could be wrong but I am predicting we might have less engineers obtaining their licenses with the changes.  1.)  The flexibility to take the 3 civil exams in any order won't be available any longer and 2.)  As I said before, when hard application due dates are removed from exams, examinees have a tendency to not commit to a test date and, as a result, exam attendance declines.


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## AyanHein (Oct 26, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Why do you assume the changes will result in more licensed engineers?  I think the year round (quarterly) testing is a very nice convenience but I don't think it will make people pass who were not already going to pass.  You might have a some examinees that pass 3 months sooner than they otherwise might have but I don't think that will increase the overall number of licensed engineers.
> 
> In fact, I could be wrong but I am predicting we might have less engineers obtaining their licenses with the changes.  1.)  The flexibility to take the 3 civil exams in any order won't be available any longer and 2.)  As I said before, when hard application due dates are removed from exams, examinees have a tendency to not commit to a test date and, as a result, exam attendance declines.


The change may or may not increase licensed engineers, but it definitely makes easier for future exam takers. You are right on people who were not already going to pass. It won't make any difference on them. However, for serious exam takers, it does. 

I just talked to a few of my colleagues who will seriously tackle the state exams in next year. They are all happy and agree that it will be more convenient and faster to get PE since now they can take 4 times a year.


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## quique07 (Oct 30, 2017)

Question regarding this:

So I was getting ready to submit my application before Nov 6, 2017,  I was going to do it this Wednesday. 

But I guess now, I'll have to wait until at least December, to find out if I pass the PE Civil National Exam i just took this past Friday. 

Assuming I do, all the references i got are dated from around these dates September 2017/October 2017. Is the board going to be OK accepting these references sometime January 2018? Or even worst, lets say I failed this national one, and now have to retake it in April, are this references going to be good for next year??  :huh:

I would hate to have to ask my references do redo the engagement record forms again..  :bawling:


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## leggo PE (Oct 30, 2017)

Ecabral07 said:


> Question regarding this:
> 
> So I was getting ready to submit my application before Nov 6, 2017,  I was going to do it this Wednesday.
> 
> ...


I would think your references would still be fine, if you don't need to count any of the time from this point onward towards the experience needed (1 year with masters, 2 years without) to apply to the Board. So, don't fear yet!

@CAPLS, do you have anything to add?


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## Barney (Oct 31, 2017)

Ecabral07 said:


> Question regarding this:
> 
> So I was getting ready to submit my application before Nov 6, 2017,  I was going to do it this Wednesday.
> 
> ...


I contacted BPELSG yesterday to make sure my application that I sent in is still good since I just took the 8hr this past Friday and they said they will process it regardless. I suggest you give them a call too to be sure.


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## quique07 (Oct 31, 2017)

Barney said:


> I contacted BPELSG yesterday to make sure my application that I sent in is still good since I just took the 8hr this past Friday and they said they will process it regardless. I suggest you give them a call too to be sure.


Hi Barney, 

Just out of curiosity which number did you call them? Because every time I've called them they just ask me for my last name and transfer me to someone... and then that someone never answers.. I've left Voicemails but no call backs...


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## Barney (Oct 31, 2017)

Ecabral07 said:


> Hi Barney,
> Just out of curiosity which number did you call them? Because every time I've called them they just ask me for my last name and transfer me to someone... and then that someone never answers.. I've left Voicemails but no call backs...


9162632222 is the number I called. Maybe I got lucky but I was able to reach them without a problem.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## quique07 (Oct 31, 2017)

Barney said:


> 9162632222 is the number I called. Maybe I got lucky but I was able to reach them without a problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


Yes, that's the number I've called before. I'm going to try again..


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## Barney (Oct 31, 2017)

Cool. Let usknow if you hear anything different.


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## CAPLS (Nov 2, 2017)

leggo PE said:


> I would think your references would still be fine, if you don't need to count any of the time from this point onward towards the experience needed (1 year with masters, 2 years without) to apply to the Board. So, don't fear yet!
> 
> @CAPLS, do you have anything to add?


No one should need to have the engagement/reference forms re-issued.  They essentially do not expire.


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## ochakoala (Nov 3, 2017)

I'm on the same boat, @Ecabral07 And so is one of my friends.

I was so diligently aiming for Nov 6 deadline. My heart dropped when I heard from a fellow 8-hr taker that they just changed the policy. If only I just have gotten into the pipeline a week ahead.. but I needed to put 10/30 to get a full month of experience.

I wish they would make it effective after Nov 6. Now our applications look out of whack. And in the case that I fail Oct AND Apr, one of my reference's license would be expired. I'm sure it's explainable at that point, but it's not ideal.

Best case scenario, we might still make it to the April tests. Know our result in Dec, 60 days to process will put us around Feb/Mar.


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## quique07 (Nov 13, 2017)

I was finally able to talk to someone from the board. 

The response I got was that we could still submit our application now, and they should just hold it until notification of passing the national exam. But they lady whom I spoke to told me she saw no problem will references dated this year being used next year since like someone here said, references don't expire. 

In sum, I didn't send my application yet, I'll wait until my result of the national exam and go from there.


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