# Passing score?



## segio

What is the passing score? 70%? So that is 70% x 80 = 56 correct answers. Is this right? Or, is it 75%?


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## Dark Knight

segio said:


> What is the passing score? 70%? So that is 70% x 80 = 56 correct answers. Is this right? Or, is it 75%?


How about none of the above. The determination of the passing score is the best kept secret in the modern world, second only to the the identity of the real JFK's killer.


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## NCcarguy

BringItOn said:


> How about none of the above. The determination of the passing score is the best kept secret in the modern world, second only to the the identity of the real JFK's killer.



It actually maybe third...behind the one you mentioned, and what the aliens did with the Sweet, HOT Britney Spears we use to see on TV all the time....I want that girl back!


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## Guest

Segio,

The development of the so-called 'passing' score is something of a misnomer. NCEES employs some sort of statistical method called 'equating' to normalize the exam from adminstration to administration to that the difficulty level is taken into consideration when developing the bright line between pass and fail.

The mechanics behind the scoring process is a tightly held secret. The best you can do is join the wait and develop your own conspiracy theory 

Best of luck!

JR


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## segio

Thanks JR.

So what about the past exams? Did NCEES ever publish the "cut-off score" once exam results were mailed?



jregieng said:


> Segio,
> The development of the so-called 'passing' score is something of a misnomer. NCEES employs some sort of statistical method called 'equating' to normalize the exam from adminstration to administration to that the difficulty level is taken into consideration when developing the bright line between pass and fail.
> 
> The mechanics behind the scoring process is a tightly held secret. The best you can do is join the wait and develop your own conspiracy theory
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> JR


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## Guest

A long, long, long time ago many state boards had it written into thier rules that a passing score would be considered 48/80 and this score would be SCALED to a 70. The problem with trying to apply that logic is that the problems were very different a long time ago (_e.g._ hand-written and partial-credit) so it doesn't work out correctly. NCEES is new on the scene, so you can't use benchmarks of old in the same way.

Many PE candidates struggle with the notion that you cannot get an edge on whether your exam is a pass or fail by trying to back-calculate your correct %. At this point it is a futile exercise - you are better off blowing off some steam in Shoot The Breeze 

My :2cents: FWIW

JR


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## MA_PE

jregieng said:


> A long, long, long time ago many state boards had it written into thier rules that a passing score would be considered 48/80 and this score would be SCALED to a 70. The problem with trying to apply that logic is that the problems were very different a long time ago (_e.g._ hand-written and partial-credit) so it doesn't work out correctly. NCEES is new on the scene, so you can't use benchmarks of old in the same way.
> Many PE candidates struggle with the notion that you cannot get an edge on whether your exam is a pass or fail by trying to back-calculate your correct %. At this point it is a futile exercise - you are better off blowing off some steam in Shoot The Breeze
> 
> My :2cents: FWIW
> 
> JR


JR: Just curious where your 48/80 reference came from. I've never heard of it.

Segio: To the best of my knowledge the actual "cut-off" score has never been revealed and my interpretation is that it varies between disciplines (i.e. the civil, SE1, Mechanical, etc. will each have its own cut-off score). Some states used to report what your scaled score was regardless of the pass/fail, but recent trends are to simply say "pass" if it's above 70 and provide a diagnotic breakdown for the "fail" with no actual score numbers.

HTH


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## ClemsonEngr

Segio,

I am not sure how it works in your state, but Florida Administrative code says:

61G15, FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE:

61G15-22.006 Demonstrating Compliance:

"(7) Provide a written examination to each participating licensee in correspondence study courses. In order to complete the course, the licensee must sign and date the examination and receive a minimum grade of seventy percent (70%). If a licensee fails the examination, they will be permitted to take the examination again in order to achieve a passing grade."

Here is the link: http://www.fbpe.org/pdfs/Chapter61G15.pdf

Although..... I have heard here and elsewhere that NCEES does the grading, and they decide questions that get dropped out, so it may change


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## roadmonkey

Maybe this would be a good stat problem for future exams. "What is the best way to calculate a passing score?" :screwloose:


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## benbo

ClemsonEngr said:


> Segio,
> I am not sure how it works in your state, but Florida Administrative code says:
> 
> 61G15, FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE:
> 
> 61G15-22.006 Demonstrating Compliance:
> 
> "(7) Provide a written examination to each participating licensee in correspondence study courses. In order to complete the course, the licensee must sign and date the examination and receive a minimum grade of seventy percent (70%). If a licensee fails the examination, they will be permitted to take the examination again in order to achieve a passing grade."
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.fbpe.org/pdfs/Chapter61G15.pdf
> 
> Although..... I have heard here and elsewhere that NCEES does the grading, and they decide questions that get dropped out, so it may change


THe 70% you refer to here is a passing grade for courses for PDH, not the PE exam. To see the score for PE exam, go to this same fbpe document and search for 70. They will show a passing score of 70, which is a scaled score.

For a second I thought you had brokwn the holy grail.


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## ClemsonEngr

You are right! sorry for the mistake.

That is what happens when you don't read the whole thing....


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## Guest

MA_PE said:


> JR: Just curious where your 48/80 reference came from. I've never heard of it.


In the days of old, many states had prescriptively written that methodology into thier rule. I am drawing upon Florida's rule prior to FBPE's last rulemaking efforts to set the score by NCEES' certification of 70 = pass.

I happen to know quite a bit about this because I was a co-petitioner in complaint against the FBPE about thier application of NCEES' determination when they had not FINALIZED thier rulemaking efforts. My back-calculated score the 2nd time I took the exam was 54. Even if I was off by a point here or there, I still felt with 6 pt difference that I had PASSED the exam by FBPE's existing rule. The way the rule FORMERLY read (as advertised on October 10, 2003) publication of intention for rulemaking:



> 61G15-21.004(2) Passing Grade. The passing grade for the Principles and Practice Examination is 70 or better. A passing grade on Part Two of the examination is defined as a grade of 70 or better. The grades are determined by a group of knowledgeable professional engineers, who are familiar with engineering practice and with what is required for an applicable engineering practice and with what is required for an applicable engineering task. These professional engineers will establish a minimum passing score on each individual test item (i.e., examination problem). An Item Specific Scoring Plan (ISSP) will be prepared for each examination item based upon the NCEES standard scoring plan outline form. An ISSP will be developed by persons who are familiar with each discipline including the item author, the item scorer, and other NCEES experts.On a scale of 0-10, six (6) will be a minimum passing standard and scores between six (6) and ten (10) will be considered to be passing scores for each examination item. A score of five (5) or lower will be considered an unsatisfactoryscore for that item and the examinee will be considered to have failed that item. To pass, an examinee must average six (6) or greater on his/her choice of eight (8) exam items, that is, the raw score must be forty-eight (48) or greater based on a scale of eighty (80). This raw score is then converted to a base 100 on which, as is noted above, a passing grade will be seventy(70).


In the end I decided to drop the petition and just retake the exam. I didn't want to be known as the P.E. who really didn't pass the exam.  I don't hold any lingering resent for the delay of my licensure  



ClemsonEngr said:


> Segio,
> I am not sure how it works in your state, but Florida Administrative code says:
> 
> 61G15, FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE:
> 
> 61G15-22.006 Demonstrating Compliance:
> 
> "(7) Provide a written examination to each participating licensee in correspondence study courses. In order to complete the course, the licensee must sign and date the examination and receive a minimum grade of seventy percent (70%). If a licensee fails the examination, they will be permitted to take the examination again in order to achieve a passing grade."
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.fbpe.org/pdfs/Chapter61G15.pdf
> 
> Although..... I have heard here and elsewhere that NCEES does the grading, and they decide questions that get dropped out, so it may change


benbo beat me to the punch but FBPE's rule clearly states 70 or better to pass (61G15-21.004 Passing Grade). Notice they remain silent as to HOW that 70 or better is determined. &lt;_&lt;

JR


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