# Does GPA matter



## electromaniac (May 7, 2008)

So, I am finishing off my second degree in Electrical engineering. Man, it is tougher than computer engineering. Anyhow, I am expecting a GPA of 2.7 due to all the signals courses that I am struggling with. Do employers require a GPA when I get a job or do they ask if I have a diploma?

Thanks


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## udpolo15 (May 7, 2008)

It depends on the company. I would say if you are looking at a top tier company, your gpa may come into play. I would say a majority won't put too much weight on it. make sure you are ready to answer the question why your gpa is what it is. anything else you can do to overshadow your gpa is a good idea (internship, extra curriculars, etc,)

As you progress in your career, experience will matter more. I would say after 2-3 years, most companies won't care.

My GPA was 2.5 in under grad. I have been at the same company, consider my self successful and got into a top 5 MBA school, so I wouldn't worry too much.


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

I was never asked about my GPA when applying for any job after my undergraduate degree. I had approximately thirty or so interviews before getting into my first job - after that they looked for experience + advanced education.

I would make sure to emphasize the quality of your education and any work experience, co-op or internship, or independent-type projects that you can use to showcase your talents and ability.

Good luck!

JR


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## IlPadrino (May 7, 2008)

jregieng said:


> I was never asked about my GPA when applying for any job after my undergraduate degree. I had approximately thirty or so interviews before getting into my first job - after that they looked for experience + advanced education.


Other than first employment, I didn't think ANYONE cared about GPA. Will I need to even include it on my resume after 20 years of work experience?


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## wilheldp_PE (May 7, 2008)

There will certainly be places that require you to report your GPA or provide a transcript, but DO NOT let that keep you from applying for jobs that have a minimum GPA listed in the requirements. If you can get into an interview without telling them your GPA, then impress the hell out of them, 9 times out of 10 they won't even bother talking about grades before making an offer.

Once you are out of school and have some experience under your belt, the value of the GPA diminishes greatly. Experience trumps grades 999 times out of 1000 in the real world. My dad still doesn't get this ...he basically never left academia...went straight from his Doctorate into teaching and administration.


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## engineergurl (May 7, 2008)

Never had anyone ask about my GPA, just about the courses I've taken. If you are trying to get a job, figure out which courses you are going to have to use while doing that job and mention them. Try to recall some of the things that you remember most and fit them in during your answer (POSITIVE THINGS ONLY!). For example, if you are trying to get a project managment job, tell about how during your "insert class here", you were given a mock project that you were required to carry through from phase to phase (or what ever is aplicable)

I think most people remember that college was not only about learning in your classes but developing your balance between managing on your own and learning about life in general...


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## SSmith (May 7, 2008)

** Just as a point of reference, the federal government's resume format requires GPA to be listed regardless of where in a career a person is. It probably doesnt play a big role in selection, but its there for the screening board to see.


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## rdbse (May 7, 2008)

It all depends. About half the companies I have interviewed with asked for my GPA, and a couple wanted my transcript as well.

When interviewing candidates for a job, my company would not hire anyone below a 2.5 GPA. Also, I would not recommend listing it on your resume. Just list honors or latin designation if you were an outstaning student.


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## roadwreck (May 8, 2008)

GPA is of the utmost importance. It will be with you forever and it the first thing employers look at no matter what stage of your career you are in. If you have anything less then a perfect 4.0 you should stop wasting your time, drop out and become a garbage collector or janitor or perhaps a low level functionary at a fast food establishment/truck stop. 

Kidding!

GPA seems to be an important criteria for an entry level position, but only as far as getting an interview. Some companies won't interview applicants unless they have a minimum GPA but once you get your foot in the door and get an interview it seems that GPA is rather irrelevant.


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## Chucktown PE (May 8, 2008)

My employer wouldn't hire anyone with less than a 3.0 for an entry level position. After that entry level position they still ask for transcripts but I think that is more to verify that a candidate actually did get a degree. I don't think they are concerned with GPA after about 5 years of experience. For a while it was rare for my company to hire anyone without a M.S.. I was lucky that I had that covered.


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## MA_PE (May 8, 2008)

> Also, I would not recommend listing it on your resume. Just list honors or latin designation if you were an outstaning student.


not for anything but if if you could list "honors or latin designation" then the idea of reporting or not reporting your GPA should not be an issue.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 8, 2008)

I agree with most of the posts here. It's a factor in getting an entry level job because that's the 'experience' you have for them to evaluate.

If you did well in college though, I'd put it on your resume for future jobs. A little eye candy never hurts. I graduated with honors both times and list that on there. I worked hard to earn it, why not put it on there.


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## Road Guy (May 8, 2008)

if i ever interviewed with someone that asked me what my GPA was I would get up and leave, it has no impact on "real work"


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## wilheldp_PE (May 8, 2008)

Road Guy said:


> if i ever interviewed with someone that asked me what my GPA was I would get up and leave, it has no impact on "real work"


One of the most surreal experiences of my life happened in an interview. I had my BS in engineering and had about 3 years of experience at this point. The interviewer kept asking me questions about clubs and organizations that I had been a part of in HIGH SCHOOL! I was so dumbfounded by the stupidity of the questions that I probably came off looking like a sputtering moron. I didn't get the job...and I think that's a blessing.


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## Casey (May 8, 2008)

^^Was it some retard from HR asking these questions? Those guys ask the most inane, useless questions...


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## wilheldp_PE (May 8, 2008)

Casey said:


> ^^Was it some retard from HR asking these questions? Those guys ask the most inane, useless questions...


Actually, it was Bill Bastian IV of Bastian Material Handling. I.e. he was the owner. That's what made it all the more weird.


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## Casey (May 8, 2008)

Oh geez...

That would throw me for a loop too...

Back on topic. As everyone has said already, your GPA only really matters on your first one or two jobs... My first two employers both asked for copies of my transcripts... I haven't been asked that since then...

But my latest job surprised me by asking for copies of my degrees... Before everyone just assumed I had them, I guess I could have lied, no one ever checked... I had a hard time finding them as they were buried somewhere in the basement.


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## Matt-NM (May 8, 2008)

For an entry level position at the national laboratories (Sandia, Los Alamos, Livermore), there is a stated minimun GPA requirement of 3.5. It may become less important for non entry level jobs. The labs like to pick-and-choose contractors for direct employment that have been working for them for a while and have proven themselves. Since the labs generally have great benefits that cost them lots of money, they like to be sure about people they hire. I guess the only way they feel they can do that with fresh out of school people is with GPA. (Of course this is probably hit and miss).

I do not fully agree with people who say that GPA doesn't matter at all. I agree that a 4.0 GPA doesn't guarantee that an employee will be a success in the real world. However, obtaining and maintaining a good GPA throughout an engineering curriculm is difficult and takes a lot of hard work. Thus it cannot simply be discounted. Otherwise, all classes would be based on a "pass" or "fail" scheme.

I was the type that finished with a good GPA but had to but my ass to do it. Other types include those who busted their ass and didn't get that great of a GPA, those who screwed off and didn't get that great of a GPA, and those who screwed off and got a good GPA (probably few and far between).

After being in the laboratory R &amp; D world for about 6.5 years now, my hiring criteria is roughly based on the following requirements, in order. (I am not a manager, and thus do not get the final say. Several engineers usually interview candidates, however, and give their recommendations to the hiring manager).

1. Personality- Does this person come of as being a "self centered", "all about me" type that nobody will want to

work with regardless of how smart they are? Or will they be an easy to get along with, team player. Are they

willing to take advice from people who are technically "below" them education wise?

2. Work ethic- Has this person payed their dues and earned their way into this position or has "daddy" managed to

pull strings for them every step of the way (We all know of these!)? This can be hard to determine from an

interview. Questions about non-work related past activities can assist here.

3. Team work- Is this individual willing to help out regardless of the task that needs to be done? Are they going to

piss and moan about tasks that they think are below them?

4. GPA, past jobs, etc.

Of course life isn't always fair. Thus, if you do have a lower GPA, it may be a little harder to get in somewhere. But in the end, your work will speak for itself. And if you are asked for your GPA by somebody interviewing you, by all means tell them what it was with an explanation if necessary. Don't get defensive and try to throw it back at them as not being important. If it wasn't important to them they wouldn't have asked in the first place. And by all means, DO NOT walk out of the interview if you are asked for your GPA, it happens to be low, and you get mad at them for asking. Unless of course you have 10 other interviews lined up and are sure none of them are going to ask for your GPA either.

My .02


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## Matt-NM (May 8, 2008)

One more thing I forgot to mention. I believe some employers, including mine, are requiring transcripts because quite a few people as of late are trying to pass off 4 year Engineering Technology degrees as 4 year Engineering degrees. Their resumes are specifically stating "Engineering". I think my employer has finally decided that the title of "Engineer" can be "honorarily" bestowed upon somebody with significant experience, like 20 years plus. (This is few and far between, however). I don't know if I even agree with this. It is probably a way of "grandfathering" in some of the individuals that they have already done this for in past years. I can't believe how loosely the term "engineer" is thrown around sometimes.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 8, 2008)

Every job I've ever had, including the present one, required college transcripts. Trust but verify, I suppose.


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## IlPadrino (May 8, 2008)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Every job I've ever had, including the present one, required college transcripts. Trust but verify, I suppose.


OK... but if you'd lie about having a degree, isn't it reasonable you might forge some transcripts? Or do you think the employers are calling the colleges to verify?


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## csanped411 (May 8, 2008)

After graduating college in 2001 with a 2.5 GPA in EE, I interviewed with 11 companies and had 1 offer. I believe GPA was the main factor as I had great interviews with a couple of Big Companies that took around 2 months for them to formally decline me. I stayed with my first employer for 6 years, got my PE License, and decided to look for a change in 2007 in which I had 5 interviews and ALL immediatley made an offer of employment arty-smiley-048: ; GPA does matter for the type of job as well as it is more heavily weighed for entry-level.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 9, 2008)

IlPadrino said:


> OK... but if you'd lie about having a degree, isn't it reasonable you might forge some transcripts? Or do you think the employers are calling the colleges to verify?


I think most colleges use special paper for printing transcripts. I now USC does. Makes it virtually impossible to forge one.


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## chaosiscash (May 9, 2008)

Matt-NM said:


> For an entry level position at the national laboratories (Sandia, Los Alamos, Livermore), there is a stated minimun GPA requirement of 3.5. It may become less important for non entry level jobs. The labs like to pick-and-choose contractors for direct employment that have been working for them for a while and have proven themselves. Since the labs generally have great benefits that cost them lots of money, they like to be sure about people they hire. I guess the only way they feel they can do that with fresh out of school people is with GPA. (Of course this is probably hit and miss).


Same at Oak Ridge National Lab (my local lab). But the local DOE sites that are more "manufacturing" oriented have lower GPA requirements, and they are scattered based on the demographic they are targeting to hire (geographic origin, race, sex, etc). (Note: I don't want to start a debate on hiring practices. I'm just stating how several of the Fed prime contractors in the area hire based on GPA). After all, I had a lower GPA that a lot of the guys I hired in with years ago (entry-level), but because I wasn't from one of the two local universities, my minimum requirements were a little lower.

The strange thing is, now that I'm on the scum sucking subcontract side, when we submit resumes in bid packages, these same sites that require GPAs on the resumes of people they hire don't require it for us. It is never listed on our "bid" resumes and is never requested. That includes the labs (ORNL, Sandia, LANL, LLNL, etc). It doesn't make a lot of since, because we are doing the exact same work in many cases as the direct employees.


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## chaosiscash (May 9, 2008)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I now USC does.


In the spirit of Engineering Boards, and because it is not football season, and b/c I am one of the few native South Carolinians on the board, I shall refrain from what I was about to say about USC transcripts.


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## MA_PE (May 9, 2008)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I think most colleges use special paper for printing transcripts. I now USC does. Makes it virtually impossible to forge one.


For my PE application here in MA I needed to provide "official" college transcripts. Official transcripts are sealed and/or mailed directly from the University to the requesting party.

On a different notye. Recently my wife was made a full-time employee at the company that she had temped for. A requirement for the job was a college degree (which she had and produced a copy of. She graduated in '83). The HR department called the University to verify the degree. The university said they did not have a record of her graduating. I won't bore you with the details of numerous phone calls and me raising the BS flag at the registrar (I graduated fromthe same university), but when they converted the files to the current database some transferrred credits got lost. They eventually verfied the degree but what a PITA.


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (May 9, 2008)

Its not the size of your GPA, its how you use it. hmy:


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## ODB_PE (May 9, 2008)

chaosiscash said:


> In the spirit of Engineering Boards, and because it is not football season, and b/c I am one of the few native South Carolinians on the board, I shall refrain from what I was about to say about USC transcripts.


The tired old gag at U Texas was for someone to write "OU" or "Texas A&amp;M diplomas - take one" above the roll of toilet paper in the john. Suppose that would work for transcripts as well.


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## Capt Worley PE (May 9, 2008)

MA_PE said:


> For my PE application here in MA I needed to provide "official" college transcripts. Official transcripts are sealed and/or mailed directly from the University to the requesting party.


Jeez, I'd forgotten about those. Luckily, all my employers wanted was the embossed transcripts because, as is SOP for USC, they charged a ridiculous fee to stuff it in an envelope and mail it. Seems like it was five bucks more.


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## Casey (May 9, 2008)

My bachelor's university sends out transcripts free of charge (properly sealed and everything). My graduate university charges me 10$ for delivery. Probably more these days.

The same is with email accounts, the former gives me an account for free for life. The latter charges an annual fee.... Cheap bastards...


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## mech engineer (May 11, 2008)

electromaniac said:


> So, I am finishing off my second degree in Electrical engineering. Man, it is tougher than computer engineering. Anyhow, I am expecting a GPA of 2.7 due to all the signals courses that I am struggling with. Do employers require a GPA when I get a job or do they ask if I have a diploma?
> Thanks


Guys, my GPA is 4.0, however I never felt it gives me ANY advantage. :banhim: On the contrary people often try avoid hiring someone who they think maybe out of realy world, unlike 2.7 grads... Real life experience and real skills - that's what they look for...


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## Carlito (May 16, 2008)

When I first graduated with my BS, I was often asked at interviews what was my GPA - even had to explain why it was low (B-).... I remember stressing about that a lot :-(

However, I did much better when getting my ME, but by that time I didn't get many interviews, so I don't know if they still ask you after X years of experience - my current employer has not.

I agree with most fellow engineers that while it is obviously nicer to have a higher GPA than a lower one, I would not overemphasize this one indicator of a candidate's potential... other skills such as interpersonal and attitude, ability to reason, are as important, if not more...


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## mbparksPE (May 16, 2008)

I will add to the chorus that says the GPA is mostly important when getting that first job out of college. In fact, the Johns Hopkins program I am in for my MS does not even give out an official GPA. You must get A's or B's to graduate however, no Cs.

If you have a decent GPA like 3.25 or above with an engineering degree, I say put it on the resume. Otherwise leave it off and let the employer ask.

Lastly, once you've got about 5 years under your belt, that experience is going to matter most. Don't forget however, licensure, graduate education, and other continuing education is going to count if you decide to switch jobs.


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## Katiebug (May 16, 2008)

It's sort of darkly amusing to me that I wouldn't be considered as an entry-level hire at my current company with my undergrad GPA. I had a hard-won 3.17 GPA at graduation, and now HR immediately "circular files" anything below a 3.0 and will only bring in for interviews someone with a 3.5 or higher. Same requirement for summer interns!

I got my job because I was a summer intern for two summers, and the summer prior to that I interned at another business unit in the corporation. Not once did my current employer ever ask what my GPA was. Heck, I didn't even have a real interview - just a phone interview before my first summer internship! At the time I got the internship with the other business unit, after my freshman year, I had a 2.8 GPA (I was an intercollegiate athlete as a freshman and it hit my academic performance hard). I brought that GPA up during sophomore year to a 3.0, but it hovered in the 3.0-3.2 range for the rest of my undergrad years.

I think after someone's been a working engineer for a few years, GPA is less of an issue. Having done recruiting and interviewing recently, we've never asked an experienced engineer what his GPA was - most probably wouldn't be able to remember!

For what it's worth, I had a GPA of 3.9 for my management grad degree - one B+ in accounting killed my otherwise perfect string of A's. :laugh:


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## Dleg (May 20, 2008)

I don't even remember if my first employer (oilfield services company) asked for my GPA. I learned very quickly that GPA was pretty much meaningless in that job. I trained side-by-side with several top-scorers and PhDs who quickly bombed out of the training program, despite their academic credentials, while myself and one other lowly, B-student state university graduate took the top honors in the 2-month training academy, which was, oddly enough, quite academic (tests, homework, etc.) There really is a difference between academic knowledge, and the ability to apply that knowledge in the world outside school.

Then, on top of all that, one of the highest compensated engineers I know is my former roommate from college, who barely graduated because of a low GPA.


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## snickerd3 (May 21, 2008)

There was guy in my classes, he was failing all of his courses and on the verge of being kicked out for the bad grades but he got the job we all had interviewed for because Daddy was friends with the higher ups in the company. He opened admitted it too. The entire interviewing process was just a formality, they knew they were going to hire him going in.


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## Katiebug (May 22, 2008)

snickerd3 said:


> There was guy in my classes, he was failing all of his courses and on the verge of being kicked out for the bad grades but he got the job we all had interviewed for because Daddy was friends with the higher ups in the company. He opened admitted it too. The entire interviewing process was just a formality, they knew they were going to hire him going in.


We hired a girl 2 years ago who was (sorry to say) useless as an engineer, solely because her father is a corporate bigwig. A sweet person but just not technically talented. She's going to law school now and is our "patent engineer" (basically she does about 10 hours of work per week and spends the rest of her time studying).

We also hired a guy with a physics degree as an electrical engineer in large part because his uncle is my soon-to-be-former boss. Interesting, given that company policy is that you need an engineering degree to be hired as an engineer. He's actually a bright kid and doing well (and going to grad school for EE) but he'd have never been considered if his uncle didn't work for the company.


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## benbo (May 22, 2008)

Katiebug said:


> We also hired a guy with a physics degree as an electrical engineer in large part because his uncle is my soon-to-be-former boss. Interesting, given that company policy is that you need an engineering degree to be hired as an engineer. He's actually a bright kid and doing well (and going to grad school for EE) but he'd have never been considered if his uncle didn't work for the company.


When I first started to school I was a Physics major. I got hired in as an Engineering Intern at Hughes Aircraft mainly because most of the old timers at the company couldn't use the new fangled CADAM programs.

The same company always hired every technical worker with the same classification - MTS (Member of the Technical Staff). It didn't matter if your degree was engineering, math or chemistry - you got that job title. Only the senior level people got classified more specifically (Sr. Engineer or Sr. Scientist).


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## squishles10 (May 22, 2008)

Matt-NM said:


> One more thing I forgot to mention. I believe some employers, including mine, are requiring transcripts because quite a few people as of late are trying to pass off 4 year Engineering Technology degrees as 4 year Engineering degrees. Their resumes are specifically stating "Engineering". I think my employer has finally decided that the title of "Engineer" can be "honorarily" bestowed upon somebody with significant experience, like 20 years plus. (This is few and far between, however). I don't know if I even agree with this. It is probably a way of "grandfathering" in some of the individuals that they have already done this for in past years. I can't believe how loosely the term "engineer" is thrown around sometimes.


My current place requires them if you don't have a PE (then obviously you're covered) because they had a guy who made up his degree and frankly didn't know how to do much of anything. More on that in a minute***. They just wanted my degrees verified, really, and didn't care about what was on the transcript. I don't think 2.7 is bad. I had 2.9 as an undergrad and I never put it on the resume. If they want it, they'll ask.

***So said guy from above didn't know how to use Excel, so he LITERALLY cut and pasted spreadsheets together. Like, with scissors and tape. Someone else found the remnants of his sheets after he was shown the door.


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## Vishal (May 22, 2008)

> ***So said guy from above didn't know how to use Excel, so he *LITERALLY cut and pasted spreadsheets together. Like, with scissors and tape*. Someone else found the remnants of his sheets after he was shown the door.


got any pictures of that?? that would be a good fit for sunny pic thread..

on the topic, i agree with all others. GPA doesnt matter a whole lot if you know your stuff. It's just one indicator and one can't stress a whole lot on it. Of course, having a higher GPA helps, but having a lower GPA is not the end of the world...


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## snickerd3 (May 22, 2008)

squishles10 said:


> ***So said guy from above didn't know how to use Excel, so he LITERALLY cut and pasted spreadsheets together. Like, with scissors and tape. Someone else found the remnants of his sheets after he was shown the door.


The literal cut and paste is unprofessional but it isn't that bad. Heck, if we noticed a typo or error in our papers (highschool and college days) the morning they were due and didn't have access to a printer, we would cut out letters/words from the earlier editions of the paper, stick it in the correct place with chapstick and make a copy on the copier.


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## chaosiscash (May 22, 2008)

In the nuke world, literal cut and paste of documents is often called "conduct of operations" or conops for short. So now you know where all of us low GPA guys ended up.


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## ODB_PE (May 22, 2008)

GPA. Size. Criminal history.

Why does any of it have to matter? Why can't people judge us for who we are?


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## Capt Worley PE (May 22, 2008)

squishles10 said:


> ***So said guy from above didn't know how to use Excel, so he LITERALLY cut and pasted spreadsheets together. Like, with scissors and tape. Someone else found the remnants of his sheets after he was shown the door.


When I worked with the DoD, we didn't have CAD to generate ECOs. I got the task because I had hand drafting in college (the last class to do so). I had to cut and paste, and hand draw the changes, then photocopy the result.

Beleive it or not, I did that until I quit in '95.


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## DVINNY (May 22, 2008)

electromaniac said:


> Does GPA matter


No, no and NO.



wilheldp said:


> Experience trumps grades 999 times out of 1000 in the real world.


Exactly.



Road Guy said:


> if i ever interviewed with someone that asked me what my GPA was I would get up and leave, it has no impact on "real work"


Good point.


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## Jtiger (Jun 23, 2008)

electromaniac said:


> So, I am finishing off my second degree in Electrical engineering. Man, it is tougher than computer engineering. Anyhow, I am expecting a GPA of 2.7 due to all the signals courses that I am struggling with. Do employers require a GPA when I get a job or do they ask if I have a diploma?
> Thanks


My company requires a 3.0 to get an interview. After a few years of experience not many companies care about your GPA, but some companies see it as crucial to getting in the door. However, if you started slow adjusting to college life, many people will take that into consideration as long as your grades improved toward the end. Also, if your grades in the classes you will be responsible for were good some might make an exception. Good luck


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