# Aside from dragging my butt out of LA....



## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

OK, this may sound stupid, but.....

I am kind of burned out on engineering as I know it.

Here are the issues:

1) Pay isn't that great. I'm in HVAC consulting.

2) Commute is aggravating and so wasteful of time (30+ miles each way with tolls, 24 miles over narrow causeway crossing Lake Pontchartrain)

3) Hours are relatively long

4) Potential is limited to whatever whim the owner decides to raise us each year

5) Work time is not flexible whatsoever. Standard 8-5 plus whatever overtime I want to work.

I would like to cut my commute, make better pay, have more potential, work more flexible time.

I don't mind engineering in general, just some of the BS as mentioned above. I mean, I'd like to take my little girl to gymnastics on Monday afternoons, but I can't see that happening working for someone else and so far away.

I just got my PE license.

Should I look to eventually branch off and work for myself and only work the hours needed to make the required income?

Should I look for a sales engineering or technical sales opportunity to make the real money I think I deserve (and probably work less and more flexible hours at the same time)?

Should I drag my butt to another state with better opportunities (really not an option for several reasons)?

Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Anyone feel the same way? What did you do?

Ed


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## DVINNY (Aug 9, 2006)

> OK, this may sound stupid, but.....
> I am kind of burned out on engineering as I know it.


Thank Goodness, I'm not the only one.

I could walk away today, and go sell slurpees at 7-11 and be happy as hell.


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## Hill William (Aug 9, 2006)

Does it burn you guys up when some of your buddies from college that were business majors go out and make six figures working in banks and insurance. So much for thermo, fluids, and calculus. Should have been taking accounting and stats. :dunno:


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## DVINNY (Aug 9, 2006)

I lived in a college house with 5 of us. 3 were marketing/bus. management etc.

Those three are:

1. Bank Commercial Accounts Manager - Big $$

2. Pharmacutical Rep - Pretty good $$

3. Construction Equipment Sales Rep - Really Big $$

then me and the other guy, he was an Architectural major. He works on the survey crew at a firm, scraping by.

I am project engineer, but still make a little over half of what my wife makes.

I was asked to speak at East Fairmont H.S. last year on career day. I had to stand on stage and LIE for 45 minutes about my career.

I SO BADLY wanted to tell them the thruth, and say that the EASIEST majors in college end up paying better, and the harder you work, the more shit gets piled on you, and your better off being a f'in lazy ass no good.

I'm ranting now.


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

I feel so much better now!  :thumbsup: Thanks for cheering me up!

Gotta run to work. I'll write more later.

Ed


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## SCPE (Aug 9, 2006)

I agree with what has been previously posted. There is a silver lining. Those other occupations are increasing in numbers while I believe engineers are declining due to a lack of glamour in the profession.

Here is what I see. I work with a couple of senior engineers who have been in the profession a while and make bookoos of cash (six figures). The money is there, you just have to put your time in. Engineers also help mankind in general, some may not care but I do believe in karma.

Some of us may be suffering from the post PE blues, expecting our lives to change drastically when in all actuality, our lives changed very little. Some can look at the aquisition of the PE license as the start to your career.

Ed,

If I was you I would be looking at self employment. Make a long term plan and stick to it. Don't uproot the kids if you dont have to.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Aug 9, 2006)

I still keep in touch with a guy from my hometown. He was the only other guy from high school that lived at home for college and was actually doing something with himself. He majored in business, but we could still bitch to each other about college and working in a professional office.

The guy works for an accounting firm. Shows up at 9, leaves around 5, takes long power lunch breaks, etc. He has to bust hit butt at tax time, but that's about it.

We're both 26, been in the work force the same amount of time. I have a masters degree to his bachelors degree, I am licensed and he is not.

He makes $15k more than me as a base, before OT and bonuses. That little fucker is loaded. :kick:


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## petergibbons (Aug 9, 2006)

> I was asked to speak at East Fairmont H.S. last year on career day. I had to stand on stage and LIE for 45 minutes about my career.
> I SO BADLY wanted to tell them the thruth, and say that the EASIEST majors in college end up paying better, and the harder you work, the more shit gets piled on you, and your better off being a f'in lazy ass no good.
> 
> I'm ranting now.


I hear you DVINNY, I was asked to do something similar with my job and couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm definetly no cheerleader for the profession, but I'm pretty conscientious at what I do. You're completely right about those that work the hardest just get more shit piled on them. It burns me up to look back on all the hard classes that I had to take and the countless hours doing homework just to graduate and live paycheck to paycheck. My brother is a pharmacist and he partied his ass off in school while I was studying all the damn time. He graduated and went to work making over 90k plus a sign on bonus :suicide: But, on the plus side, I work 7:30 - 4, 5 days/week, at least 14 holidays per year, 10 vacation hours per month and 12 sick hours per month. All the time off is great now that I'm a family man. Sorry for the rant.


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

SCPE,

I like your thoughts- especially the self-employment thing. I am very interested in that avenue. IF I could formulate a good plan to get, say, a small engineering business going within the next few years, I think that could be my ticket.

People say that you shouldn't compare yourself with others, but that is part of how we guage our success. We have a friend who makes at least twoce what I do and he didn't even go to college but works in sales doing truck lease sales. Another firend got a 2-year degree in electronics, backed his way into the IT industry and now makes about 20-25% more than me, works from the house (no comute), etc....

I'm happy for them. I am just sick over all the hard work I've had to contend and its not getting me anywhere.

Sapper, every now and then I think of going back to the no-gos (that's what we called the Nat. Guard) or the regular Army. I talked to a couple of recruiters over the years. It seems they were too lazy or too in the dark on finding something that would relate to my career. They wanted to put me back in the calvalry wher I was years ago. In any case, I wouldn't want to be deployed and wouldn't want to move.

Maybe I need to start focusing on starting that engineering business. Any ideas how to get started? :dunno: 

Ed


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## DVINNY (Aug 9, 2006)

> But, on the plus side, I work 7:30 - 4, 5 days/week, at least 14 holidays per year, 10 vacation hours per month and 12 sick hours per month.? All the time off is great now that I'm a family man.? Sorry for the rant.?


I used to have that, and like a DUMBASS, I left it to chase more money.

I'm an idiot.

Actually, I only got 10 vacation days, and no sick leave, but worked from 7:30 to 4:00 everyday. That was nice.

Now, I work 10, 12, sometimes 14 hr days, and get paid for 8, then when I leave for the day they say "where are you going?"


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## TouchDown (Aug 9, 2006)

Yeah - don't you wish you had someone back in high school that would tell you how it's going to be? I just remember my guidance counselor saying, "hey, you're good at math and science - be an engineer, that job market is HOT".

I can say that I'm proud to be an engineer, and proud that I've got the P.E. now, but I'm still looking to find happiness.

Does it really have to be SO difficult? I remember when I started working right out of school and I actually enjoyed what I was doing and made 1/2 as much as I do now. Does my boss and the other managers enjoy how they make life a living hell some days? :tone: Talk about pressure, I'm looking at jumping career fields within engineering (from mfg. to OTHER), but without the experience no one is picking up my resume. I've been out of college now for 10 years and since I chose mfg. it looks like I'm kind of stuck in mfg. unless I want to start over at an entry level pay. Plus, start over on vacation, potentially lose out on pension, and ...

I just applied to be the city's public works operations manager (oversees public works engineering office and all projects related to city utilities). I KNOW this would be just as stressful - probably even more, and the pay is less than what I make now. I probably won't even get an interview, but I'm starting to get so frustrated and desperate in my current work environment that I may have to make a move soon just to keep from going ape shit on someone in a meeting.

What's that statistic? People change jobs about an average of 6 times in their career. Ed, I'm definately right there with you, man. No easy choices, especially when you and I both want to stay within the same current town and not move around a lot. :dunno:


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

> just to keep from going ape shit on someone in a meeting.


Man that made me laugh!  :rotflmao

I haven't heard that phrase in a long time and I don't think I've ever seen it in writing! Too funny!

I remember a guidance counselor telling me the same thing about the math. Maybe they are pressured by some organizatons to try to influence people into various career paths. I was torn between being a veterinarian and an engineer at the time. They talked me out of the vet thing.

Oh well. I guess I'll keep my eyes open. I guess a lot of us are in the same boat.

Manufacturing is cool in my opinion. I did it for a while. there isn't much of that where I live.

Ed


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## petergibbons (Aug 9, 2006)

All of this discussion makes me envious of Jimmy Buffet. Wouldn't that be the perfect lifestyle?


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## SCPE (Aug 9, 2006)

Ed,

There is probably nothing more satisfying than running your own business. I hate to see all of your hard work and experience go down the drain that is why you should stay in engineering. However, if you are truly unhappy and don't see that changing, switch careers now and don't look back. No one should have to be miserable at their job. Life is too short. 70% of our days are spent at work, don't let it kill you. No one else is going to change your life, only you can do that.


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

SCPE,

Right now my wife is 7 months into a startup business she and a partner began. We are optimistic that within a year it will be goind smoothly, will be stable and she will be making good money.

Maybe what I need to do is plan aournd that. Once her deal is in the air, I might be able to use that cushion to get mine going.

Thanks for the encouragement. I really need to start researching what exactly I can offer in an engineering company. Maybe that goal will keep me going until that point.

Ed


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## DVINNY (Aug 9, 2006)

Great topic Ed,

and great words SCPE.

It's good to see that I'm not alone in my thinking and feelings.


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## SCPE (Aug 9, 2006)

Ed,

It sounds like the stars are alinging for your switch to self employment. Your family will definately learn valuable do's and don'ts of starting your own business. Even though your wife's business could be basket weaving the business concepts are the same. If she can get her's going thats the perfect oppurtunity for you.

Take that stamp that you earned - use it and abuse it!


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

Maybe we can start some company to rival "the other board"? :dunno: 

I wouldn't mind putting together the study audio tapes I mentioned in another thread! :thumbsup: 

DV, you in? :dunno:

Ed


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## SCPE (Aug 9, 2006)

Here is the thing that amazes me. There are so many things out there that people need. This website for example...totally crushes "the other board"'s. Audio study tapes... there you go. 15 years ago people would have balked at an Engineering reference manual, look at Lindeburg's reference.


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## DVINNY (Aug 9, 2006)

I have DVD authoring software, and can make an interactive DVD using menu's and options, etc.

Maybe a DVD tutorial that works in the home DVD or on the computer's DVD rom??

NCEES has the CD sample exam, but I'm think along the lines of study guides, charts, equations, etc. etc.

hmmmmmmmmmmm


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

That all sounds good DV. The audio thing for me was to make good use of the commute to and from work and to give that little extra confidence booster and brain stimulation towards the PE exam.

I don't know if one exists or how it would need to be formatted (obviously it can't get too technical, maybe just general concepts like the Exam Cafe at "the other board").

Ed


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## cement (Aug 9, 2006)

> I have DVD authoring software, and can make an interactive DVD using menu's and options, etc.
> Maybe a DVD tutorial that works in the home DVD or on the computer's DVD rom??
> 
> NCEES has the CD sample exam, but I'm think along the lines of study guides, charts, equations, etc. etc.
> ...


I think you are on to something there. How many people have posted that they would like alot more of the NCEES type problems to practice with. Those are realistic while you are still learning, instead of getting crushed by unneeded detail like the "the other board" does. they say they over-prepare, but how many do they discourage and chase away?

on another topic of this thread, I keep getting nice, hand written congrats notes from the chiefs at this agency. they must know the new PEs are self evaluating and looking at options.

I think I will stay with the agency though. They are saying that half the people here are going to retire in the next 5 years, so there should be some good upward opportunities. I just have to keep telling myself that.


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## Slugger926 (Aug 9, 2006)

Ed,

Have you thought about searching small customers needing HVAC/Ventilation systems designed.

I know a pro dog trainer that lost 20+ dogs in an HVAC failure where the HVAC system froze up, then started kicking out heat during a defrost cycle. The failure cooked the dogs in a matter of minutes since the HVAC system wasn't engineered with emergancy ventilation.

The highly trained retrievers were worth about $20K to $25K each. I bet the insurance companies for these pros would love the AC facilities to be properly engineered. In OK, any comercial HVAC unit needs to be designed by a PE.

Here is a thread I posted on the retriever board:

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/vi...&amp;highlight=hvac

I thought about going pro in the retriever training world. Those guys make $500 to $800 per dog per month. Many of the Pro's will train 50 dogs per month with hired help. I know a couple of engineers with MBA's that have gone pro. They do have headaches from clients though when the dogs don't perform.


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## EdinNO (Aug 9, 2006)

Slugger,

It is a possibility. I am just getting into HVAC system design. I have traditionally worked in control system design and product design along with some sales engineering stuff. Almost all of it has been in HVAC, but the ardcore HVAC system design experience is new to me. I hope to gain more of that experience here at this job.

I have an architect looking into designing an addition for my house. He asked me if I would be interested in designing the HVAC for some small fast-food restaurants he is designing. I would, but am not sure I could do so at this point. Also, my company looks down on side work for a couple of reasons.

Maybe I'll stick it out until I gain the exprience here to spread my wings. Hopefully they will catch air ans sustain me prior to impact with the canyon floor below! 

BTW, my sister breeds retrievers. She has been doing so for many years. She flies them all over the country and even overseas sometimes for people who are willing to pay outrageous money (in my book anyway). I wonder if your friend has heard of her dogs. She is in Mississippi. I think they are called Top Dawg Kennels. Small world if so.

Ed


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## SkyWarp (Aug 9, 2006)

What do you consider good money, at least for your area? I used to check job ads daily, and many of the HVAC positions that required 5 or more years of experience I saw were in the 65-80K range (DC area). Not as much as many of my business friends are on pace to earn after 5 years, but more than a lot of them.

I was definately one of those people who read that engineering had something like 4 of the top 5 highest paying salaries coming out of college. However, if you average the salaries of all the entry level jobs I interviewed for, it's almost 10K lower than what the supposed average is. Definately makes me wonder if it was worth it to suffer through Thermo when I breezed through all non-engineering classes.


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## mizzoueng (Aug 9, 2006)

I've heard that sales "engineers" for companies like York, Trane, etc get paid very well. Most have zero actual engineering backgrounds, but the ones that can back up the talk usually do the best.

I am currently getting out of the contracting business, but the money is there if you hold out. Some of the senior managers are in the 100-150K range. Then there are year end bonuses, etc. Plus the 7-3:30 hours are nice. The engineer of record gets the good money as well, not sure what his figure was, but it better be good for having the pressure dropped squarely on him. Think "Big Dig".

Or you could open a gas station, I hear theres profit in gas these days.......


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## Mike in Gastonia (Aug 10, 2006)

Here's my






When you go into the engineering field, there are only a few career paths. And I don't think it matters whether you are in manufacturing, private practice, municpal or government.

You can stay on the technical side. I think eventually you hit a glass ceiling unless you can then be a "staff" engineer, but that's about as high as you can go.

You can move to the sales side. Either products or services. If you are in consulting, your sales or business development guys need to be able to "walk the walk" somewhat and understand what the client is looking for. As a manufacturing sales rep, you're going to be selling to engineers, so you have to know your product.

You can move into management. More administrative and HR work but still engineering related. However, you then get to deal with all of the "Bob is not showering every day and he stinks" and "Cheryl keeps clipping her nails in her cube and it's driving me nuts" and "I'll be late today because I threw a plate at my husband and now I have to take him to the ER" kinds of problems. And yes, those are all :true: that I've dealt with in the past.

You can go into Project Management. That's what I did. I knew early on that I didn't want to say on the purely technical side of things forever, so when there was an opportunity to manage multi-discipline projects, I took it. Fit well with my skills - working with clients, being organized, working with different disciplines, but not having to deal with the day to day people problems of having people report to you.

The grass is always greener - important to remember that. Every job has its own set of problems challenges. Especially when running your own business. Don't think you'll be able to go 9-5 and then forget about it. I would strongly recommend you talk to people who have their own business. Most of them will be willing to talk with you. Learn from their mistakes.

Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## Road Guy (Aug 21, 2006)

shouldnt there be a boatload of work coming up in New Orleans the next couple of years? after Katrina? Or is the rebuilding money not there?

I know some of our other offices in the Gulf Area are racking up some nice transportation type work. (NO BID  )

Seems that would be a good chance to either grow into a new opportunity, start something yourself, or "other"

as for me, even through I am shy of the PE (for a few more months) but I do PM/ Team Leading role (The Army Stuff was good for something) I like that side better than being 99% technical. Doing 15 miles of interstate cross sections isnt something that really motiovates you to get to work in the morning.


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## EdinNO (Aug 21, 2006)

Hey RG,

I agree that the technical side is sooo boring compared to the PM side of things.

There is a boatload of work going on around here. It will probably last for a few years. I probably need to just find the right opportunity or maybe even eventually make one for myself.

I'm peckig away at it and keeping my eyes open.

Ed


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## Road Guy (Aug 21, 2006)

do you have a resume out on monster.com or carrearfinder? or one of the many services? Sometimes the headhunter calls are a pain, but usually 1 out of 20 will be interesting. that way folks are coming to you.


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## EdinNO (Aug 21, 2006)

Good idea. I did sign up on minster and put in my info, but I need to follow through with a complete resume.

What's advertised around here is rarely interesting. But maybe your idea of having the "unadvertised" stuff come my way is the way to go.

Thanks!

Ed


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## Road Guy (Aug 21, 2006)

yeah a lot of times when a company hires a headhunter the job isnt advertised and the headhunters will troll through monster and the other resume job sites.

I leave mine up 24/7


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## TouchDown (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm on both boards, as well as my University Engineering School's Alumni board where you post resumes and some of the "typical" companies that recruit our school can get on to see who's available. I've gotten hits from all 3...

However, since I am particular about staying in Central Missouri, none have worked out, some want you to move to East Coast / West Coast, etc.

Or - the job sounds great, but the pay is 1/2 what I make now. :suicide:

I keep a favorites list on my IE of every HR website for the companies I'm targeting. I check each out multiple times a week. Some will post on their own website before going to Monster or Careerbuilder. I've tried to cold-call them, but I keep getting the response (we don't accept resumes unless there is an open position)...


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