# Flat Earthers



## Dleg (Sep 9, 2017)

I've been hearing about these wackos over the past couple years, and recently discovered that a pharmacist I know believes in this shit whole heartedly. He constantly posts on Facebook about it, and uses all sorts of flawed mathematics that he clearly doesn't understand to try to justify it. Nothing will convince him otherwise.  What disturbs me most (aside from the movement starting in my home state of Colorado, and apparently headed in part by an engineer) is how this illustrates a poisoning of thought,  where people start to genuinely doubt science yet believe in the most improbable,  massive conspiracies, all fed by manipulative messages that you can't trust scientists,  educated people,  professionals,  etc. because they must be personally benefitting from it. The Flat Earthers may seem to be the most idiotic of these groups,  but the basic tenets underlying their rejection of science are the same as those behind the anti vaccination movement and - yes - climate change denial as well as anti-evolutionism.  Because these other erroneous schools of thought were viewed as slightly less absurd and even socially advantageous (in certain religious or political circles), enough people are apparently willing to apply the same level of doubt and skepticism to any number of other scientific theories and fact, especially if it begins to seem popular to do so within their social groups.

I'm worried that the Flat Earthers are just the beginning of a potentially catastrophic expansion of this type of thinking. The start of another Dark Ages, where progress stalls because science becomes distrusted or even illegal in favor of religion, superstition, and mob rule.  While I personally believe that religion can coexist with science,  as it has for the past few hundred years,  I do think that we've been too weak and tolerant in our response to anti vaxxers, creationists and the like, and if we don't start to more vigorously stand up for science and fact, we could very well be condemning our descendants to a much lower quality of life, and eventually threatening our own science-based profession.

http://secondnexus.com/technology-and-innovation/flat-earth-society/?utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&amp;tse_id=INF_230818c094c911e7aba2ffcf7683ccd7


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## cement (Sep 9, 2017)

I blame the 24 hour news cycle for giving wackos air time.


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## Dleg (Sep 9, 2017)

I agree that's a huge part of the problem.


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## Road Guy (Sep 9, 2017)

insert huge overreach meme here


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## ptatohed (Sep 10, 2017)

Dleg, I agree with nearly everything you said and I see your concern.  But I don't share the same worry that this dark age thinking will start spreading.  I think it is getting harder and harder for the anti-vaxxers to avoid getting their kids vaccinated (it is required here in CA to attend public schools).  I think the flat eathers will never be anything but a tiny minority thought of as looneys by the rest of us.  As for anti-evolution creationists, yeah, there are plenty of those but until they can make a legitimate scientific case for it supported by verifiable facts and evidence, I don't think we'll see the teaching of it in public school and we'll continue to see the teaching of evolution.  (As for climate change, I have to admit I am one of "those people" who are not convinced that climate change is manmade.)

I have an Evangelical Christian friend who is whole heartedly against vaccinations (although he eventually had to give in), and I have a Seventh Day Adventist friend who is convinced the earth is flat.  There is nothing you can say to or show them to change their minds.  

But, hey, the Bible says the world is flat so, it must be flat, right?


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## wilheldp_PE (Sep 10, 2017)

Rush Limbaugh literally said that he thought that Hurricane Irma was a hoax perpetrated by the Climate Change crew to try to brainwash the masses.  If you can look at the radar and satellite images of a category 5 hurricane bearing down on a state and go through the mental gymnastics necessary to call it a hoax, I think all hope for humanity is lost.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 10, 2017)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Rush Limbaugh literally said that he thought that Hurricane Irma was a hoax perpetrated by the Climate Change crew to try to brainwash the masses.  If you can look at the radar and satellite images of a category 5 hurricane bearing down on a state and go through the mental gymnastics necessary to call it a hoax, I think all hope for humanity is lost.


I believe he evacuated shortly after doing that show...


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> I believe he evacuated shortly after doing that show...


True.


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

I just started a graduate course in behavioral and social foundations of public health. For the first assignment, I chose to research the anti-vaccination movement and the influences that drive it.  All professional papers - no websites or news media reports.  It is very interesting. From what I read, I do not believe those people are "reachable", although I do think it's possible to slow the spread of their worldview (and it has been shown to be growing).

One interesting paper that I downloaded, but ended up not using, was an article exploring the conspiracy theorist mindset and in particular, developing a mathematical probability model to demonstrate that it is impossible to cover up a conspiracy of the size necessary to support things like NASA hiding the flat earth.  It also noted that people who were anti-vaxxers were likely to believe in other consipracy theories as well.


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## Supe (Sep 11, 2017)

Dleg said:


> developing a mathematical probability model to demonstrate that it is impossible to cover up a conspiracy of the size necessary to support things like NASA hiding the flat earth.


I'd be interested in that.  I'd like to know, mathematically, what the probability is of managing to prevent a "leak" on something like the moon landing.


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## Road Guy (Sep 11, 2017)

Did you all see the story about the joke event posted on FB to "shoot at the hurricane" and then like 80,000 people registered to attend the event. and then some sheriff and the news got all serious about why shooting at the hurricane wont make it go away - I think CNN and Huffington post actually had diagrams that showed what could happen if a bullet entered into the hurricane.. but seriously people (news folks especially) should just stop taking things so seriously.. 

I think everyone new that was a "joke" from the get go.. but we have actual news people spending their time doing this:







That's probably the same thing that happened with the flat earth thing but now they read stuff like this Original Butt Hurt Scientist Post above and then just decide to see how far they can carry the joke...


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 11, 2017)

Supe said:


> I'd be interested in that.  I'd like to know, mathematically, what the probability is of managing to prevent a "leak" on something like the moon landing.


x2. Or the conspiracy theories surrounding the 9/11 attacks. Which is ironically today 

USA


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

No, I can tell you from knowing one of the flat earthers and seeing the posts from his friends, they are true believers.  



Supe said:


> I'd be interested in that.  I'd like to know, mathematically, what the probability is of managing to prevent a "leak" on something like the moon landing.


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905


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## Flyer_PE (Sep 11, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Supe said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be interested in that.  I'd like to know, mathematically, what the probability is of managing to prevent a "leak" on something like the moon landing.
> ...


I was thinking the same thing regarding 9/11.  I was in a room with several structural engineers that day and they were not one bit surprised at how those buildings came down.

A few of my thoughts on conspiracy theories (especially if it's government cover-up in question):

1.  The government as an entity is either a diabolical genius or a total idiot.  It can't be both.  I've always been entertained when I see (insert president's name here) accused of both by the same person and in some cases in the same paragraph.

2.  If the two choices between bad government action are evil intent and stupidity, the safe bet is stupidity.  Unintended consequences are a b!tch.

3.  Given that the only way two people can keep a secret is if one of them is dead, how on earth do these people think the word won't get out on something requiring the silence of hundreds if not thousands of people?


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## Jbone27 PE (Sep 11, 2017)

So I always thought that the flat earthers didn't actually believe the earth was flat but just wanted to claim something outrageous to spark interest in their belief that people should do their own research and challenge the scientists for proof or something along those lines. I didn't realize they actually thought that.  I didn't think a movement so easily disproved could hold any water,  guess I gave people too much credit.


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

Dleg said:


> No, I can tell you from knowing one of the flat earthers and seeing the posts from his friends, they are true believers.
> 
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905


Abstract:



> Conspiratorial ideation is the tendency of individuals to believe that events and power relations are secretly manipulated by certain clandestine groups and organisations. Many of these ostensibly explanatory conjectures are non-falsifiable, lacking in evidence or demonstrably false, yet public acceptance remains high. Efforts to convince the general public of the validity of medical and scientific findings can be hampered by such narratives, which can create the impression of doubt or disagreement in areas where the science is well established. Conversely, historical examples of exposed conspiracies do exist and it may be difficult for people to differentiate between reasonable and dubious assertions. In this work, we establish a simple mathematical model for conspiracies involving multiple actors with time, which yields failure probability for any given conspiracy. Parameters for the model are estimated from literature examples of known scandals, and the factors influencing conspiracy success and failure are explored. *The model is also used to estimate the likelihood of claims from some commonly-held conspiratorial beliefs; these are namely that the moon-landings were faked, climate-change is a hoax, vaccination is dangerous and that a cure for cancer is being suppressed by vested interests. Simulations of these claims predict that intrinsic failure would be imminent even with the most generous estimates for the secret-keeping ability of active participants—the results of this model suggest that large conspiracies (≥1000 agents) quickly become untenable and prone to failure. *The theory presented here might be useful in counteracting the potentially deleterious consequences of bogus and anti-science narratives, and examining the hypothetical conditions under which sustainable conspiracy might be possible.


I think the author is way off in his final sentence, though, predicting the usefulness of his work in convincing believers that they are wrong.  His paper is just a part of the conspiracy!


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 11, 2017)

This is certainly a fascinating topic. I'm not necessarily an advocate for conspiracy theories, but I do recall one that I take particular interest in that I think @ptatohed was part of. Where he provided some pretty convincing arguments in favor of how the moon landing was staged. But to all the points made above, how could all those involved keep something like that quiet for as long as it has been? :dunno:


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## Road Guy (Sep 11, 2017)

Jbone27 said:


> So I always thought that the flat earthers didn't actually believe the earth was flat but just wanted to claim something outrageous to spark interest in their belief that people should do their own research and challenge the scientists for proof or something along those lines. I didn't realize they actually thought that.  I didn't think a movement so easily disproved could hold any water,  guess I gave people too much credit.


^- This


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

You're giving them way too much credit.  They deserve every bit of the ridicule they rightly receive, and they should receive more of it, even if they are just benevolently trying to stir an interest in DIY science research (which is B.S. - like I said I know one of these guys and he genuinely believes the earth is flat and that NASA is covering that fact up)


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 11, 2017)

Dleg said:


> (which is B.S. - like I said I know one of these guys and he genuinely believes the earth is flat and that NASA is covering that fact up)


Would it do any good to have him talk to someone that has been on the International Space Station? He does understand the concept of orbiting around a spherical mass, doesn't he? :dunno:


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## Road Guy (Sep 11, 2017)

I am not giving them any credit, I am just saying that its just not worth worrying about..

So what if 0.00000000000000000001  % of the populous believe in something stupid?

About to move this thread to the stupid list


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Would it do any good to have him talk to someone that has been on the International Space Station? He does understand the concept of orbiting around a spherical mass, doesn't he? :dunno:


Anyone who claims to have been on the ISS would be a part of the conspiracy, don't you see?

To respond to @Road Guy, my point is that this type of thinking is part of a growing and increasingly acceptable way of thinking that rejects and distrusts science and is willing to believe almost anything that plays to their particular biases.  The flat earthers probably don't present any particular threat to the rest of us, I am sure, but people who refuse vaccinations do.  As time goes on, if this mindset isn't controlled and is in fact rewarded with ridiculous excuses such as "they are just demonstrating that one should do one's own research", then what will be next?  It's not like humanity hasn't reversed progress before because of superstition , non-rational beliefs, and thinking of scientists as the enemy .  One could easily argue that the internet and the age of mass media makes it even easier for that to occur (choose whatever information appeals to you the most), hence my mention of the "dark ages" as a possible outcome.   

(and to correct your math, it would be 0.2% of the populous that believes the flat earth theory according to the article int he original post, and 20% of the populous that still believes that the MMR vaccine causes autism according to the conspiracy theory paper above)


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## frazil (Sep 11, 2017)

Well everyone used to think the earth was flat, so I definitely think their numbers are on the decline.  As far as other conspiracy theorists, I really think the reason they seem to be increasing is because of social media.  We never used to hear about them or from them - now they have a platform to get their message out. 

The solution may be in the messenger. Scientists aren't always the best ones to try to convince skeptics.  I saw a cool video about a scientist who convinced the Pope that climate change was real and worth doing something about (Scientist gets the message out).  He is someone that many trust and believe in and will listen too, and it made a difference. You have to convince a leader in their community to believe and he or she will do the rest.

But don't waste your time on the Flat Earthers...they're just stupid.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 11, 2017)

Dleg said:


> Anyone who claims to have been on the ISS would be a part of the conspiracy, don't you see?
> 
> To respond to @Road Guy, my point is that this type of thinking is part of a growing and increasingly acceptable way of thinking that rejects and distrusts science and is willing to believe almost anything that plays to their particular biases.  The flat earthers probably don't present any particular threat to the rest of us, I am sure, but people who refuse vaccinations do.  As time goes on, if this mindset isn't controlled and is in fact rewarded with ridiculous excuses such as "they are just demonstrating that one should do one's own research", then what will be next?  It's not like humanity hasn't reversed progress before because of superstition , non-rational beliefs, and thinking of scientists as the enemy .  One could easily argue that the internet and the age of mass media makes it even easier for that to occur (choose whatever information appeals to you the most), hence my mention of the "dark ages" as a possible outcome.
> 
> (and to correct your math, it would be 0.2% of the populous that believes the flat earth theory according to the article int he original post, and 20% of the populous that still believes that the MMR vaccine causes autism according to the conspiracy theory paper above)


When it comes to vaccines, they are a victim of their own success. Parents today have no idea what an iron lung is or the effects of polio. As these anti-vaxers' children start to get sick, often-times they switch course very quickly once they are faced with the harsh realities of what these diseases are capable of.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Sep 11, 2017)

I would change pharmacists and cut off all association with that individual.


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## Road Guy (Sep 11, 2017)

Yawn, (about this whole thing)

but no way is it 0.2% - there's no way that around a million people fall for this. Heck I don't think were even that many votes for gary johnson


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Sep 11, 2017)

Internet conspiracy theorists make me get all stabby.


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## Flyer_PE (Sep 11, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> Yawn, (about this whole thing)
> 
> but no way is it 0.2% - there's no way that around a million people fall for this. Heck I don't think were even that many votes for gary johnson


"They say 65 percent of all statistics
Are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em
Whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe
But I do know there's no doubt
I need another double-shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about" - Statistician's Blues by Todd Snider


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## Dleg (Sep 11, 2017)

Here's a good analysis of the problem from Psychology Today, in which they argue that many are confusing skepticism (healthy) with denialism (unhealthy):

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psych-unseen/201702/flat-earthers-belief-skepticism-and-denialism



> In terms of psychological and social health, we would all do well to be more flexible with our personal belief convictions, keeping an open mind to the possibility that we might be wrong. But at the same time, we would also do well to “believe in” the process of “believing that.” According to that advice, denialism holds us back, tethering us to false beliefs that are inconsistent with the facts and worthy of ridicule.


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## wilheldp_PE (Sep 11, 2017)

Various scientific fields can provide proof that the Earth is indeed spherical, but many such proofs require the person requesting the proof to be basically competent in basic math and/or science. 

For the flat-earther crowd, their "proof" is actually far more simplistic.  Just show me the edge of the Earth, and I'll be convinced.  In order for the Earth to be flat, there either has to be edges in each direction, or the surface area of the Earth has to be infinite.


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## ptatohed (Sep 12, 2017)

Jbone27 said:


> So I always thought that the flat earthers didn't actually believe the earth was flat but just wanted to claim something outrageous to spark interest in their belief that people should do their own research and challenge the scientists for proof or something along those lines. I didn't realize they actually thought that.  I didn't think a movement so easily disproved could hold any water,  guess I gave people too much credit.


Trust me man, I know one.  She is a 7th Day Adventist and her argument for a flat earth is because the bible says that the earth is flat (which is true, it does).  

Another thing she believes in which I don't think anyone has brought up yet is the Illuminati and the New World Order.  She believes there is a secret world elite that has plans for us all when they take over the world.    



knight1fox3 said:


> This is certainly a fascinating topic. I'm not necessarily an advocate for conspiracy theories, but I do recall one that I take particular interest in that I think @ptatohed was part of. Where he provided some pretty convincing arguments in favor of how the moon landing was staged. But to all the points made above, how could all those involved keep something like that quiet for as long as it has been? :dunno:


Ha-ha, I remember that thread.  Yeah, as I've said I am not a conspiracy theorist on any other topic (as far as I know), and I do consider myself rational and logical, but I am just not convinced that we had the technology to fly humans to the moon in 1969.  Anyway, I won't list the other arguments (unless requested) but, yeah, call me a nut, it's ok.

As for climate change, I am not convinced that any climate change is human caused.  But I wouldn't call it a conspiracy as Dleg's publication did.  I just think there is a chance scientists are wrong about the man-made causes of climate change.  I don't doubt that parts of the earth are rising in temperature and that the climate is experiencing changes.  But the earth has been around for millions and millions of years and has undergone countless natural climate changes long before man was here.  All the time, we hear failed prediction attempts by weather forecasters and meteorologists.  Last winter here in southern California, we were supposed to have a huge "El Nino" and people were warned and advised to prepare.  Sandbags were handed out, response teams were formed, evacuation routes were planned, etc., etc.  No El Nino.  Again, here in CA, we were in a "drought" and this drought was supposed to last another 7 years at least.  We had mandatory water cutbacks, could only water our lawns 3 days per week, new construction could not plant grass, etc. etc.  Well?  This winter was incredibly wet and no more drought.  My point is weather forecasters can do a reasonably good job predicting the weather a day, even a week or two in advance.  But ask them to predict a year or more out?  Nearly always wrong.  I am just not compelled that anyone can "know" current changes in global climate are directly associated with human activity.  Again, call me a nut.


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## Road Guy (Sep 12, 2017)

Actually The flat earthers follow the same logic as the global warming alarmists - they base things on what they see in their short insignificant life. 

I walked from Florida to California and the earth is flat by my observation the earth must also

be flat.  

We had hurricanes during "hurricane season" - must be global warming....


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## Jbone27 PE (Sep 12, 2017)

I think we are all forgetting the biggest conspiracy of them all. The one that is right under our noses...crab people


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## ptatohed (Sep 12, 2017)

https://www.livescience.com/14754-ingenious-flat-earth-theory-revealed-map.html


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Sep 12, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> Actually The flat earthers follow the same logic as the global warming alarmists - they base things on what they see in their short insignificant life.
> 
> I walked from Florida to California and the earth is flat by my observation the earth must also
> 
> ...


It's worse than that, because they can not do math.


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## Dleg (Sep 12, 2017)

Back to the more clearly nuts:  did you know that some Flat Earthers have also started to believe that mountains are actually the remains of giant trees that once covered the Earth?  Crazy shit but as of this article in The Atlantic last year, there were 10,000 - yes ten f'ing thousand - videos on youtube about the idea:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/flat-earth-truthers/499322/

Here's an excerpt:




> ....New discoveries in mainstream science just tell us about the physical universe; earth-shattering developments in the conspiracy-theory fringe tell us what’s happening to ourselves. ‘No Forests on Flat Earth’ might be the future of weirdness, and it’s utterly magnificent.
> 
> The response to the video has been huge—since it was first posted by a Crimean man calling himself Людин Рɣси, ‘There are no forests on Flat Earth Wake Up’ has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times, spawned hundreds of blog posts in the broader flat-earth-o-sphere and, at the time of writing, has gathered over ten thousand response videos. There’s been an ‘explainer,’ a ‘decoding,’ a biblical exegesis, a roundtable discussion (in fact, many, many roundtable discussions), and, inevitably, accusations that the precipitous popularity of the video is proof that it’s all a plot by the ‘control grid’ to distract from the real truth. Unfortunately, the ‘No Forests on Flat Earth’ video is also nearly an hour-and-a-half long. You should absolutely watch the whole thing—but if you’re not the kind of dedicated weirdo who wants to waste a decent chunk of their day watching ludic conspiracy-theory pseudogeology, I’m willing to give you a summary.
> 
> ...


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## ISpitHotFire PE (Sep 12, 2017)

Jbone27 said:


> I think we are all forgetting the biggest conspiracy of them all. The one that is right under our noses...crab people


Glad to see someone else recognizes this. Crab people are the biggest threat to our society right next to ManBearPig.


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## Road Guy (Sep 12, 2017)

I spent the better part of the afternoon researching the crab people and I will be stocking up on munitions and initiating a grass roots defense plan for my suburban hell neighborhood- first meeting to plan our defenses is tomorrow(at the elementary school).


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## Dleg (Sep 12, 2017)

I tried to research the crab people, but I started worrying that our IT people would know that I am on to them.


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## ptatohed (Sep 12, 2017)

Chemtrails anyone?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 12, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Chemtrails anyone?


I love Chemtrails. They're fat-free, gluten-free, and low carb. It's a great addition to my quinoa &amp; kale salad...


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## aog (Sep 13, 2017)

Anyone who is a flat-earther and basing that position on the Bible is mislead.  Here are two interesting (to me at least) pages regarding whether the Bible teaches the earth is flat.  They both explain that the Bible does not take a position on the flat/spherical debate.  The longer article explains the history of the misconception on the topic.

Shorter article: https://www.gotquestions.org/flat-earth-Bible.html

Longer article: https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/


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## Jbone27 PE (Sep 13, 2017)




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## ptatohed (Sep 13, 2017)

aog said:


> Anyone who is a flat-earther and basing that position on the Bible is mislead.  Here are two interesting (to me at least) pages regarding whether the Bible teaches the earth is flat.  They both explain that the Bible does not take a position on the flat/spherical debate.  The longer article explains the history of the misconception on the topic.
> 
> Shorter article: https://www.gotquestions.org/flat-earth-Bible.html
> 
> Longer article: https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/


I would tend to disagree with you but the last thing we need is for another theist/non-theist argument on this forum.  So I won't provide defense of the Bible's repeated allusion to a flat earth (which only makes sense since that was the position held by most, if not all, people at the time of the OT and NT writings).  A flat/stationary earth is just one area where the bible is horrifically scientifically wrong.


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## Dleg (Sep 26, 2017)

TIME magazine:


Rapper B.o.B. Has Started a GoFundMe Campaign to Prove That the Earth Is Flat






> Rapper B.o.B., who made waves last year for tweeting that the Earth is flat, now wants your help to prove his theory.
> 
> Late last week, he started a GoFundMe campaign, Show BoB The Curve, aiming to find evidence that the planet is actually round.
> 
> ...



Twitter Ads info and privacy




 



 








In 2016, the rapper, whose real name is Bobby Ray Simmons, dropped a diss track on astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, after Tyson tried to convince himthat the Earth is, in fact, round.

"Neil Tyson need to loosen up his vest/ They’ll probably write that man one hell of a check," read one line from B.o.B.'s track,"Flatline."

For his part, Tyson clapped back with a scientific explanation, and dropped his mic on national television to demonstrate gravity.

The view that Planet Earth is a flat disc, as opposed to a globular-shaped spheroid, has been amplified in recent years by celebrity endorsements, reports CNN.

Apart from B.o.B., high-profile flat-Earthers include Tila Tequila, NFL player Sammy Watkins and NBA star Kyrie Irving. (However, it turns out Irving could be just trolling everyone with his professed belief in a flat Earth.)


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## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 26, 2017)

One of the science pages I follow on Facebook shared a satire picture/article on the flat sun theory.


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## ptatohed (Sep 27, 2017)

Instead of all this expensive complicated satellite hogwash, how about bob finding the edge of the earth the old fashioned way like a man?  Get in a boat and keep sailing due west until you fall off the edge of the earth.  Done.


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## Sapper PE LS (Sep 27, 2017)

What in the fuck did I just read?!  Did I really just now spend 20 minutes reading a thread about flat earth conspiracy theorists?  Yes, yes I did.  Why?  I.  Don't.  Know.  Okay, time to go pour acid in my nostrils.  It will serve about the same purpose.


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## User1 (Sep 27, 2017)

Sapper PE said:


> What in the fuck did I just read?!  Did I really just now spend 20 minutes reading a thread about flat earth conspiracy theorists?  Yes, yes I did.  Why?  I.  Don't.  Know.  Okay, time to go pour acid in my nostrils.  It will serve about the same purpose.


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## ptatohed (Sep 27, 2017)

Sapper PE said:


> What in the fuck did I just read?!  Did I really just now spend 20 minutes reading a thread about flat earth conspiracy theorists?  Yes, yes I did.  Why?  I.  Don't.  Know.  Okay, time to go pour acid in my nostrils.  It will serve about the same purpose.


I think it is good to be aware that these people are amongst us.


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## Supe (Sep 27, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I think it is good to be aware that these people are amongst us.


And voting.


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## Sapper PE LS (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm only kidding.  I have no problem with the thread.  My attempt at humor was to poke fun at the subject of the conspiracy theory.


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## User1 (Sep 27, 2017)

Sapper PE said:


> I'm only kidding.  I have no problem with the thread.  My attempt at humor was to poke fun at the subject of the conspiracy theory.


I was just referring to the acid in nostrils. lol


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Sep 27, 2017)

thejulie_PE said:


>


Took longer than I expected.


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## ptatohed (Sep 27, 2017)

Most conspiracy theories attempt to have at least some sort of well thought-out defense for their belief that might make for a good discussion/argument topic and might make a skeptic, at least for a moment, say 'Hmmmmm'. 

But a flat earth?  What is the defense for a flat earth theory?!  How do they explain boats disappearing over the horizon?  Night and day?  Seasons?  Aerial space images?  Eclipses?  Sailing/flying around the world?  Changes in star patterns?  Observing that all other moons and planets are spherical? 

If the earth is flat, where is the edge?  Why hasn't anyone discovered or been to the edge?  What's on the other side of the flat earth?  How thick is the earth? 

Seriously, do they have even one semi-compelling argument?


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## frazil (Sep 27, 2017)

And how exactly are they going to fly satellites around the flat earth?


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## ptatohed (Sep 27, 2017)

frazil said:


> And how exactly are they going to fly satellites around the flat earth?


Yup, I was thinking the same thing.  To me, orbiting satellites is proof of a spherical earth.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Sep 27, 2017)

They orbit the same way the sun and moon do.  Apparently, the flat earth map says that Antarctica is the outer boundary.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Sep 28, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> They orbit the same way the sun and moon do.  Apparently, the flat earth map says that Antarctica is the outer boundary.


Like "The Wall" in GoT?


----------



## Supe (Sep 28, 2017)

That's the real reason nobody's been to the edge.  Can't make it past this guy.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Sep 28, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Most conspiracy theories attempt to have at least some sort of well thought-out defense for their belief that might make for a good discussion/argument topic and might make a skeptic, at least for a moment, say 'Hmmmmm'.
> 
> But a flat earth?  What is the defense for a flat earth theory?!  How do they explain boats disappearing over the horizon?  Night and day?  Seasons?  Aerial space images?  Eclipses?  Sailing/flying around the world?  Changes in star patterns?  Observing that all other moons and planets are spherical?
> 
> ...


No.


----------



## ptatohed (Sep 28, 2017)

Audi driver said:


> No.


Found this.  I actually read it.  Someone shoot me.    http://www.debate.org/debates/Scientific-evidence-overwellmingly-supports-a-flat-earth/1/


----------



## aog (Sep 29, 2017)

The flat earth is the real reason global warming is such a problem.  If the earth warms too much, then Antarctica won't stay cold enough to keep the masses from discovering the truth.  Once Antarctica is warm, then any regular person can travel to the edge.  Right now it's so cold that only those who are insiders can get there.


----------



## Exengineer (Oct 14, 2017)

Apparently Admiral Richard E. Byrd must have been deranged since he claimed that there is a land mass bigger than the United States beyond Antarctica.  How could this be possible if it is simply a continent?  If it really is the outer ring on a flat earth, then it makes sense.  I don't think Byrd was ever confined to an asylum for the mentally ill so he must have some credibility on this subject.   Of course everyone who denies what he said has never been to the South Pole, but Admiral Byrd has.  How can his words be explained?


----------



## matt267 PE (Oct 15, 2017)




----------



## DVINNY (Oct 15, 2017)

I don't see how this is even a topic of discussion.

My friend Donnie Baker says that the earth is flat.  He even proved it using a level, a football, and a Zima.   Cased Closed.


----------



## DVINNY (Oct 15, 2017)




----------



## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Oct 24, 2017)

> On 10/14/2017 at 8:33 PM, Exengineer said:
> 
> Apparently Admiral Richard E. Byrd must have been deranged since he claimed that there is a land mass bigger than the United States beyond Antarctica.  How could this be possible if it is simply a continent?  If it really is the outer ring on a flat earth, then it makes sense.  I don't think Byrd was ever confined to an asylum for the mentally ill so he must have some credibility on this subject.   Of course everyone who denies what he said has never been to the South Pole, but Admiral Byrd has.  How can his words be explained?



It's pretty disturbing to see this and discover the amount of stupid you have to be to believe this is the explanation for Byrd's statements.


----------



## matt267 PE (Oct 24, 2017)

It's a special kind of stupid.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Oct 24, 2017)

I blame auto-correct for the flat earth movement.


----------



## matt267 PE (Oct 24, 2017)

Audi driver said:


> I blame auto-*in*correct for the flat earth movement.


Fixt.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Oct 24, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> Fixt.


That just goes to prove how broken it is.


----------



## goodal (Oct 31, 2017)

These people cannot be serious.  Can they?


----------



## User1 (Oct 31, 2017)

goodal said:


> These people cannot be serious.  Can they?


much serious. very wow.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Nov 15, 2017)




----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Nov 22, 2017)




----------



## Dleg (Nov 22, 2017)

*This man is about to launch himself in his homemade rocket to prove the Earth is flat*

(Washington Post)



> Seeking to prove that a conspiracy of astronauts fabricated the shape of the Earth, a California man intends to launch himself 1,800 feet high on Saturday in a rocket he built from scrap metal.
> 
> Assuming the 500-mph, mile-long flight through the Mojave Desert does not kill him, Mike Hughes told the Associated Press, his journey into the atmosflat will mark the first phase of his ambitious flat-Earth space program.
> 
> ...


----------



## User1 (Nov 22, 2017)

none of the reaction options are sufficient.


----------



## Dleg (Nov 22, 2017)




----------



## einatlanta PhD PE (Nov 22, 2017)

"Flat Earth Community"  ......I am scared to know who the 'community' includes.


----------



## ptatohed (Nov 24, 2017)




----------



## Dleg (Nov 24, 2017)

What a great response.  Smart kid. It just goes to show you that the types of people who believe this stuff are not necessarily just in the "math is hard" camp, but definitely prone to flawed and incomplete analysis.


----------



## ptatohed (Nov 28, 2017)

Dleg said:


> What a great response.  Smart kid. It just goes to show you that the types of people who believe this stuff are not necessarily just in the "math is hard" camp, but definitely prone to flawed and incomplete analysis.


Yeah, I am impressed with his videos.  He reminds me of a young (and more polite) Christopher Hitchens.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Nov 28, 2017)

That reminds me, I saw this over the Thanksgiving break:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/11/27/a-flat-earthers-plan-to-launch-himself-in-a-homemade-rocket-has-been-postponed-again/?utm_term=.aaca035e1961

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/11/25/mad-mike-hughes-cancels-rocket-launch-prove-earth-flat/894762001/


----------



## FLBuff PE (Nov 28, 2017)

His launch angle seems a little off...


----------



## csb (Nov 28, 2017)

The motorhome broke down seems like a plausible hypothesis. I accept it as truth.


----------



## ptatohed (Nov 29, 2017)

I am probably getting a little too off topic but.....

I took my boys to Amboy (mentioned in kf's articles) this past spring.  The 'Amboy Crater' there is a dormant volcano that is relatively young - last eruption was about 10,000 years ago.  There is one side of the volcano that had a breach during the eruption so it is easiest to enter on that side.  It is pretty cool walking up and into a volcano.  We took home some lava rock.  There are also salt lakes nearby.  They are dried/evaporated lakes where nothing is left but about 4" of pure white salt.  Fun to walk on.  I touched the tip of my tongue against a piece of it and HOLY SALTY!  Lastly, we went to the Kelso Dunes (also in the Mojave Desert) which are big giant sand dunes that constantly change in shape/height/location due to wind.  Fun to climb and play in.  We brought snow sleds which only worked so-so in the sand but we still had a blast.

After being closed for renovations for like 8 frickin years, the Mitchell Caverns (Mohave Desert) finally reopened.  So, I plan to take the whole family in January.  )


----------



## Supe (Nov 29, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I touched the tip of my tongue against a piece of it and HOLY SALTY!


Ptatohed confirms salt is salty - more at 11:00.


----------



## csb (Nov 29, 2017)

I refuse that hypothesis. Salt is obviously sweet. Just look at pretzel salad.


----------



## ptatohed (Nov 29, 2017)

Supe said:


> Ptatohed confirms salt is salty - more at 11:00.


No, this was saltier than salt!


----------



## Supe (Nov 29, 2017)

Div/0!


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Nov 30, 2017)

Flat earth eclipse:


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 30, 2017)

Flat Earth Society Responds To Elon Musk's Tweet:

http://www.iflscience.com/space/flat-earth-society-responds-musks-tweet-flat-mars-society-just-cant-even/


----------



## Road Guy (Nov 30, 2017)

I think I have figured them out, whomever chairs this organization is just trying to get a free ride on the next trip up the space station (if that's still a thing)


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Nov 30, 2017)




----------



## ptatohed (Dec 1, 2017)

I love it!  "And the fact that you can't spell simple words correctly completely discredits anything else you've ever said in your career".  LOL!


----------



## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2017)

NASA posted this pic of an old space shuttle launch from the space station,  pretty obvious how flat it is, you would think they wouldn't let these types of photos out in the public realm to dispels NASA's conspiracy?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 6, 2017)

Do you think flat earthers understand how curvatures of large objects work?


----------



## BamaStrucPESE (Dec 7, 2017)

Audi driver said:


> Do you think flat earthers understand how curvatures of large objects work?


Since they are flat earthers, I think by definition they do not.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 7, 2017)

BamaStrucPE said:


> Since they are flat earthers, I think by definition they do not.


https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/259821-flat-earth-society-trolls-elon-musk-claims-mars-round


----------



## knight1fox3 (Dec 7, 2017)

^ ha! That's interesting. So do they also thing all the other planets of the solar system are flat as well? :dunno:


----------



## ruggercsc (Dec 7, 2017)

Flat Earthers need to check out the strip club down the street.  Not much flatness in there.


----------



## csb (Dec 11, 2017)

Audi driver said:


> Do you think flat earthers understand how curvatures of large objects work?


There's a "your mom" joke hidden in here somewhere...


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 11, 2017)

csb said:


> There's a "your mom" joke hidden in here somewhere...


Keep it that way.


----------



## csb (Dec 11, 2017)

^ Ack! I can't handle that temptation on top of it.


----------



## Road Guy (Dec 11, 2017)

on top of your mom?


----------



## csb (Dec 11, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> on top of your mom?


Nah, she gives credence to flat earth statements.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Dec 23, 2017)




----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Jan 2, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> View attachment 10669


It's like deja vu all over again.


----------



## txjennah PE (Jan 2, 2018)

I was really hoping that the "flat earthers" on the internet were just dedicated trolls.  :\


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Feb 16, 2018)

The disease is spreading.


----------



## Dleg (Feb 16, 2018)




----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Feb 16, 2018)

Dleg said:


>


That's all CGI, so it proves nothing.


----------



## akwooly (Feb 16, 2018)

so fake.


----------



## Dean Agnostic (Feb 16, 2018)

When I was kid I really thought that earth was flat, and at the time it was counter-intuitive for me to understand gravitational force because I'm so used to seeing things fall down on the flat floor/ground surface. But on my first plane ride, I remember seeing the ocean curving as the plane gets further away.


----------



## Bot-Man (Feb 21, 2018)

txjennah said:


> I was really hoping that the "flat earthers" on the internet were just dedicated trolls.  :\


That's what I initially thought. It was so absurd that it had to be people trolling. Then to my dismay I finally accepted the fact that these people are real...and they breed...and vote.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Mar 9, 2018)




----------



## Dleg (Mar 9, 2018)

Except that everyone knows cats hate water, so your hypothesis is rejected.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Mar 23, 2018)




----------



## Dleg (Mar 23, 2018)

Oh no, they have a crazy explanation for day and night, too - the sun is really small and just a few hundred miles up (or something) and shines down like a spotlight, while it rotates around the disk to illuminate just one portion of the earth at a time.


----------



## csb (Mar 24, 2018)

So really they're desk lampers?


----------



## ruggercsc (Mar 24, 2018)

Dleg said:


> Oh no, they have a crazy explanation for day and night, too - the sun is really small and just a few hundred miles up (or something) and shines down like a spotlight, while it rotates around the disk to illuminate just one portion of the earth at a time.


How do they account for an eclipse then?


----------



## ruggercsc (Mar 24, 2018)

Here is a link to youtube video with their explanation.  I am not about to waste 24 minutes watching this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/08/22/flat-earthers-declare-solar-eclipse-just-proved-earth-flat/#3d5c57756921


----------



## Road Guy (Mar 26, 2018)

at least they proved gravity is a real thing.. (I think I made an estes rocket that went higher than this?) lift off is at around the 25 min mark..

https://noizetv.vhx.tv/mad-mike-hughes-the-launch-or-non-launch/season:3/videos/to-the-world-the-end-the-begining


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Mar 26, 2018)

Road Guy said:


> at least they proved gravity is a real thing.. (I think I made an estes rocket that went higher than this?) lift off is at around the 25 min mark..
> 
> https://noizetv.vhx.tv/mad-mike-hughes-the-launch-or-non-launch/season:3/videos/to-the-world-the-end-the-begining


More like 26:30.  I read the article about this, but thanks for posting the link to the video.  Those were certainly some interesting "journalists" covering the launch.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Mar 26, 2018)

TH did I just watch?


----------



## EB NCEES REP (Mar 26, 2018)

Two of our proctors


----------



## MetsFan (Mar 27, 2018)

Some guy posted a picture of a video game to a flat earth group: 





source: https://dvsgaming.org/man-trolls-flat-earth-group-with-pubg-footage/


----------



## Bot-Man (Mar 28, 2018)

So do they believe if you go to the edge you can actually fall off?  Would one just fall into outer space?

I'm still having a hard time grasping that people actually believe this and it isn't an elaborate hoax perpetrated by trolls.


----------



## ruggercsc (Mar 29, 2018)

Bot-Man said:


> So do they believe if you go to the edge you can actually fall off?  Would one just fall into outer space?
> 
> I'm still having a hard time grasping that people actually believe this and it isn't an elaborate hoax perpetrated by trolls.


No, there is a giant ice wall at the edge that prevents you from falling over the edge.  I am not not sure where the section of the wall missing from a dragon blowing it up is though.


----------



## Bot-Man (Mar 29, 2018)

ruggercsc said:


> No, there is a giant ice wall at the edge that prevents you from falling over the edge.  I am not not sure where the section of the wall missing from a dragon blowing it up is though.


We won't have an answer to that until next year.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Mar 29, 2018)

ruggercsc said:


> No, there is a giant ice wall at the edge that prevents you from falling over the edge.  I am not not sure where the section of the wall missing from a dragon blowing it up is though.


:appl:


----------



## Road Guy (Mar 29, 2018)

so a GOT question - when the dragon smashed the wall does that make "end of watch" for all the men of the black? not sure if there is a dragon clause in there or not?


----------



## knight1fox3 (Mar 29, 2018)

Road Guy said:


> so a GOT question - when the dragon smashed the wall does that make "end of watch" for all the men of the black? not sure if there is a dragon clause in there or not?


A valid question indeed! Or do they really have their work cut out for them with now having to rebuild the wall?  :dunno:


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 23, 2018)

Well, I give them one thing, the flat earthers are devoted to their cause.  These folks... I can't even with them.  Here's a recent  post I read:






"Billy Spears: Stop with the name calling people... the people who believe the earth is flat are not dumb and neither are those that believe it's a sphere. If you think it's a sphere then prove it... and not using things you have been told, do the research. The flat earthers bring up some very valid points that must be taken seriously. For example, if there are thousands of satellites orbiting the earth why do we never see them in the supposed pictures from space?... If gravity is holding us to the ground then why do people closer to the poles not weigh more than those at the equator? Angular momentum would be significantly less the closer you get to the poles but 'gravity' would always remain the same.... Why don't any flights fly directly over Antarctica?... Why do flights disappear from the tracking system in the Southern Hemisphere?... Why are NASA's pictures of the earth photoshopped?... Why do the clouds never move when there are videos of the earth spinning?... Why does the Horizon always rise to eye level?... How can you see Chicago's skyline from across Lake Michigan?... Why is the Horizon always flat?.... and these are just a few of the many valid questions that need answers."


----------



## knight1fox3 (Apr 24, 2018)

> Why are NASA's pictures of the earth photoshopped?


:blink:


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Apr 27, 2018)

Take that Flat Earthers!

http://tribunistdaily.com/texan-breaks-marksmanship-world-record-with-3-mile-shot/

" A lot goes into shots like this. Poor has to account for many variables that can alter the bullet’s path INCLUDING the shape of the Earth! Which curves 6 feet over 3 miles. "


----------



## Dleg (May 4, 2018)




----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (May 7, 2018)

Dleg said:


>


I guess all the other viewing angles were just hoaxes.


----------



## jeb6294 (Jul 11, 2018)

Holy shitballs...I can't decide if they're completely nuts or if the whole thing is a joke.  Someone on my FB feed posted a comment about a picture from their FB page and I made the happy mistake of looking at their page.  I did not realize that, in addition to the earth being flat, Australia doesn't actually exist.

Flat Earth Believers 

And in case you were wondering why a picture was enough to get me to look at their FB page....


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 11, 2018)

Those are some handsome women

And is that a cone head or is my phone messed up?


----------



## P-E (Jul 12, 2018)

Road Guy said:


> Those are some handsome women
> 
> And is that a cone head or is my phone messed up?


She is from France.


----------



## Supe (Jul 12, 2018)

LOL.  Googled "flat earth coneheads", and got a twitter post with that photo describing flat earthers: _Turns out it's people with slip n slides for foreheads and the cast of The Hills have Eyes._


----------



## Ramnares P.E. (Jul 12, 2018)

Should not have clicked on this thread before going into a design meeting.  I may have lost double digits IQ points from the content in here.  Also, I am now scarred from cone head...


----------



## RBHeadge PE (Jul 12, 2018)

That's got to be a parody account.


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 12, 2018)

they also don’t look like big tippers


----------



## Supe (Jul 12, 2018)

Yeah, but you won't complain because the conehead can control your thoughts.


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 12, 2018)

And she probably just had a plate full of batteries anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dleg (Jul 12, 2018)

Can't even rest your beer on her head.


----------



## Supe (Jul 12, 2018)

Dleg said:


> Can't even rest your beer on her head.


No, but you could probably set up an entire picnic lunch on it.


----------



## P-E (Jul 18, 2018)

Dleg said:


> Can't even rest your beer on her head.


Head?, who said head..


----------



## Dleg (Jul 18, 2018)

P-E said:


> Head?, who said head..


I'll have some of that...


----------



## P-E (Jul 18, 2018)

Dleg said:


> I'll have some of that...


And I did and it was good...


----------



## Dleg (Jul 18, 2018)

P-E said:


> And I did and it was good...


And there was much rejoicing!


----------



## P-E (Jul 18, 2018)

Dleg said:


> And there was much rejoicing!


And then we [email protected], we [email protected] for hours.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Jul 18, 2018)

My son told me last night that he saw a video put out by the Flat Mars Society...


----------



## Dleg (Jul 18, 2018)

P-E said:


> And then we [email protected], we [email protected] for hours.


Uprooting trees, shrubs, and flowers.


----------



## P-E (Jul 18, 2018)

Dleg said:


> Uprooting trees, shrubs, and flowers.


Like Vikings, with horns on our heads.


----------



## Dleg (Jul 18, 2018)

P-E said:


> Like Vikings, with horns on our heads.


ARRRRRRRRRGGHH!!!!!!!


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 18, 2018)

I still think this is an elaborate ploy to get a free ride up on Spac X's space flights that are going to start in a few years - today on the radio they said the cost was going to be $250G's a flight..


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Jul 19, 2018)

Road Guy said:


> I still think this is an elaborate ploy to get a free ride up on Spac X's space flights that are going to start in a few years - today on the radio they said the cost was going to be $250G's a flight..


I think that every person that has ever professed flat earth ideology should get a free ride from SpaceX...in the cargo hold of a Falcon Heavy.  Just dump 'em all out there and raise the average IQ of the world.


----------



## RBHeadge PE (Jul 19, 2018)

Road Guy said:


> I still think this is an elaborate ploy to get a free ride up on Spac X's space flights that are going to start in a few years


I've had this thought too.



Road Guy said:


> today on the radio they said the cost was going to be $250G's a flight..




$250k was Virgin Galactic's price. I don't recall if SpaceX ever gave a pricetag? If that is what they are charging then its to compete with Branson.

I know more than enough about aerospace and range safety to know that I really don't want to be one of the first people to go up on either system.


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 19, 2018)

you may be right I was in the car all day so I don't recall which "provide" they were talking about ,just remember the $250K price tag


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Jul 30, 2018)




----------



## leggo PE (Aug 6, 2018)

https://www.cnet.com/news/sorry-flat-earthers-google-maps-now-zooms-out-to-a-globe/


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Aug 6, 2018)

I went to GenCon this weekend, and picked up this shirt...


----------



## MA_PE (Aug 6, 2018)

Dleg said:


> Uprooting trees, shrubs, and flowers.


LOL! @Dleg 

she did front flips and back flips...all kinds of tricks


----------



## knight1fox3 (Sep 21, 2018)




----------



## Road Guy (Nov 29, 2018)




----------



## RichardL91 (Nov 30, 2018)

What if it is flat and we are on a space nickel, or with the inclusion of Mt Everest, a space nipple...


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 4, 2018)

If the earth were flat, wouldn't it be a pretty simple matter to prove it?  You know, by going to the edge?


----------



## MA_PE (Dec 4, 2018)

Audi driver said:


> If the earth were flat, wouldn't it be a pretty simple matter to prove it?  You know, by going to the edge?


many have tried.....they don't come back.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Dec 4, 2018)

Read a good article this morning about a Flat-Earth blogger who offered $100k to a pilot who could fly between 3 points using only 90 degree turns and end up in the same place they started from. He obviously had no idea that spherical triangles exist...


----------



## RichardL91 (Dec 4, 2018)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Read a good article this morning about a Flat-Earth blogger who offered $100k to a pilot who could fly between 3 points using only 90 degree turns and end up in the same place they started from. He obviously had no idea that spherical triangles exist...


I saw the video on that too... people arent the brightest.

Google and Tesla both use this as an interview question.... err at least they did


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Dec 4, 2018)

I've watched several videos on that $100k challenge.  A pilot and YouTuber named Wolvie6020 has completed the challenge 3 different times, and the flat-earther challenger changed the rules each time the challenge was completed.  First Wolvie proved the route using digital charts on the iPad he actually uses in the cockpit of his plane.  Flat-earther says that the challenge must be completed on a specific brand of digital chart.  Wolvie completes the challenge on the requested digital chart.  Flat-earther says that the challenge must be completed with paper charts, and adds requirement that the route must incorporate destinations "that you can actually fly to."  Wolvie had been using the north pole for simplicity sake...you could just go 5000 miles down a line of longitude, go 5000 miles around a line of latitude, then go 5000 miles up another line of longitude.  Both Wolvie and another YouTuber named MC Toon have now completed the challenge using paper charts cut-and-pasted together showing a route between non-North Pole locations.  MC Toon went a step further and actually taped the charts to a hemisphere made out of PVC to show that the route lays flat when wrapped around a sphere and doesn't work on a flat plane. 

I can only suppose that the next new requirement will be for Wolvie to actually take this idiot up in a plane and fly the route.  Even then, the flat-earther will probably just claim that the airplane's instruments have been hacked by NASA to make it appear to be flying around a sphere.


----------



## Dexman PE PMP (Dec 4, 2018)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I've watched several videos on that $100k challenge.  A pilot and YouTuber named Wolvie6020 has completed the challenge 3 different times, and the flat-earther challenger changed the rules each time the challenge was completed.  First Wolvie proved the route using digital charts on the iPad he actually uses in the cockpit of his plane.  Flat-earther says that the challenge must be completed on a specific brand of digital chart.  Wolvie completes the challenge on the requested digital chart.  Flat-earther says that the challenge must be completed with paper charts, and adds requirement that the route must incorporate destinations "that you can actually fly to."  Wolvie had been using the north pole for simplicity sake...you could just go 5000 miles down a line of longitude, go 5000 miles around a line of latitude, then go 5000 miles up another line of longitude.  Both Wolvie and another YouTuber named MC Toon have now completed the challenge using paper charts cut-and-pasted together showing a route between non-North Pole locations.  MC Toon went a step further and actually taped the charts to a hemisphere made out of PVC to show that the route lays flat when wrapped around a sphere and doesn't work on a flat plane.
> 
> I can only suppose that the next new requirement will be for Wolvie to actually take this idiot up in a plane and fly the route.  Even then, the flat-earther will probably just claim that the airplane's instruments have been hacked by NASA to make it appear to be flying around a sphere.


The article I read was a shorter version of what you wrote, but did highlight the fact that the goal posts were constantly being moved and the flat earther is unlikely unwilling/unable to pay up because it would acknowledge his beliefs are wrong (heaven forbid).


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 5, 2018)

Here is what the challenger claimed is the winning entry.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 5, 2018)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Read a good article this morning about a Flat-Earth blogger who offered $100k to a pilot who could fly between 3 points using only 90 degree turns and end up in the same place they started from. He obviously had no idea that spherical triangles exist...


I think the point was that if it was a sphere, you could do exactly this, but since (in his twisted small mind) it "isn't" it isn't possible.


----------



## Bot-Man (Dec 5, 2018)

I still suspect that flat earthers are just trolls looking for attention. Nobody can be that ignorant.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 5, 2018)

Bot-Man said:


> I still suspect that flat earthers are just trolls looking for attention. Nobody can be that ignorant.


The guy making that challenge thinks that you're turning left if you follow the equator.


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## Exengineer (Dec 5, 2018)

Given that the only way two people can keep a secret is if one of them is dead, how on earth do these people think the word won't get out on something requiring the silence of hundreds if not thousands of people?  (@Flyer_PE)

Strongly disagree with this.  May be true among your peers, but not within the intelligence community.  Many people have held many secrets under penalty of death if revealed.  Some of these secrets have been revealed only after decades of silence by those who were involved.  Ex: Former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara revealed only in 1995 that the Gulf of Tonkin incident of August 1964 that supposedly provoked the U.S. into war with North Vietnam never happened.  Just another propaganda piece to fool the public.  George W. Bush later used the propaganda of "weapons of mass destruction" to lie the U.S. into war with Iraq.  A lot of lies are accepted as truth until revealed much later.   Many people are good at keeping secrets.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Dec 7, 2018)

Exengineer said:


> Given that the only way two people can keep a secret is if one of them is dead, how on earth do these people think the word won't get out on something requiring the silence of hundreds if not thousands of people?  (@Flyer_PE)
> 
> Strongly disagree with this.  May be true among your peers, but not within the intelligence community.  Many people have held many secrets under penalty of death if revealed.  Some of these secrets have been revealed only after decades of silence by those who were involved.  Ex: Former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara revealed only in 1995 that the Gulf of Tonkin incident of August 1964 that supposedly provoked the U.S. into war with North Vietnam never happened.  Just another propaganda piece to fool the public.  George W. Bush later used the propaganda of "weapons of mass destruction" to lie the U.S. into war with Iraq.  A lot of lies are accepted as truth until revealed much later.   Many people are good at keeping secrets.


Yet we now know about it, right?  Think of the timeline involved in perpetuating the "lie" that the earth is a sphere.


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## mudpuppy (Feb 24, 2020)

Dleg said:


> *This man is about to launch himself in his homemade rocket to prove the Earth is flat*
> 
> (Washington Post)






knight1fox3 said:


> That reminds me, I saw this over the Thanksgiving break:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/11/27/a-flat-earthers-plan-to-launch-himself-in-a-homemade-rocket-has-been-postponed-again/?utm_term=.aaca035e1961
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/11/25/mad-mike-hughes-cancels-rocket-launch-prove-earth-flat/894762001/




So his original launch was postponed, but he pulled off a couple launches.  And (big surprise) killed himself in the process of his third flight.  Now we'll never know if the Earth is flat.

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/23/808645524/daredevil-mad-mike-hughes-killed-in-crash-of-homemade-rocket


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## Road Guy (Feb 24, 2020)

Just cant fathom being that obsessed with something to drive me to that - he is defin not a Gen - X'er (cause we dont give a FFFFFFFFF)


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## Dleg (Feb 24, 2020)

mudpuppy said:


> So his original launch was postponed, but he pulled off a couple launches.  And (big surprise) killed himself in the process of his third flight.  Now we'll never know if the Earth is flat.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2020/02/23/808645524/daredevil-mad-mike-hughes-killed-in-crash-of-homemade-rocket


Clearly NASA killed him to suppress the truth.


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## Road Guy (Feb 24, 2020)

it looks like they (CIA)  already shut down www.madmikehughes.com


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## Orchid PE (Feb 24, 2020)

His documentary is available on Amazon prime:

https://watch.amazon.com/detail?gti=amzn1.dv.gti.24b621d7-4c38-260c-e17c-95c798f2b471&amp;ref_=atv_dp_share_mv&amp;r=web


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## P-E (Feb 24, 2020)

My beer is flat.


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## kevo_55 (Feb 24, 2020)

You will still drink it, right?


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## P-E (Feb 24, 2020)

kevo_55 said:


> You will still drink it, right?


As sure as the Earth is round.


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## Road Guy (Apr 22, 2020)




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## Road Guy (Sep 25, 2020)




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## Dleg (Sep 28, 2020)




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## csb (Oct 2, 2020)

Did anyone see the part about Flat Earthers in The Social Dilemma on Netflix?


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## Dleg (Oct 2, 2020)

No, but in revisiting this thread, I stand by my original opening comments. Humanity in 2020 has scared the shit out of me.


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## leggo PE (Oct 6, 2020)

Mr. Leggo and I watched the Social Dilemma over the weekend. I am now seriously debating getting rid of my Instagram accounts. I have already gotten rid of Facebook and Twitter (I never really used Twitter that much anyway), and possibly also divesting from WhatsApp.

Gotta keep LinkedIn for the kinky possibilities...


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## Road Guy (Oct 6, 2020)

I cancelled all the streaming services and went back to cable (crazy its cheaper and was just tired of flipping through shit) so I will have to catch up on my netflix shows in 6 months or so

So does it say the the social media apps spy and steal your data or do they only show you things you want to see?

 For example I have never searched for "nurse"shit on my instagram, but my phone likely listens to my wife bitch about work and I will always get nursing stuff when I go to the "search" function on instagram if that makes sense.

I dont really do much politics on FB or insta so my "feed" is usually a mix of dumb gym memes, jeep stuff, fit older women in XF booty shorts :respect: , and nursing stuff..


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## User1 (Oct 6, 2020)

i think it is mostly to learn what you respond to so they can target the right ads to get more clicks and more purchases so they can sell the ads for more monies? but i havent seen it yet.


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## Road Guy (Oct 6, 2020)

hmmm..  now thats a skill I need to learn here!  

hopefully you all realize how http inept I am with dealing with the last board software update to know thats not my bag...


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## leggo PE (Oct 6, 2020)

The Social Dilemma is all about the dark side of social media; very little coverage on the good things about it. Most of the people they talk to are people who used to work at the big name social media companies, and have defected. They talk about the mass amounts of data collected by all the Facebooks/Googles/Twitters/TikTok/etc., increased rates of suicides in young girls, the lack of checks on what is true or not, increased polarity/radicalizing of people on the left/right, the role social media has played in fake news, the users of the sites being the "product" sold to advertisers, the way social media's goal is to you to get addicted to it so they show you more advertisements... For instance, the advent of the Instagram stories, where they keep playing until you tell them to stop, and before you know it, you've spent half an hour watching Instagram stories when you were just trying to watch one story by you friend or someone you follow. Like, how it's the goal of these social media companies to prey on the part of your brain that gives into wanting attention. Any social media company's main goal is to get you on them as much as possible.

Of course, this may all seem like it's common sense. Of course social media companies want you on their site as much as possible! But the way this documentary does it painted it in a very effective light for me to want to get actually myself uninvolved with nearly all of them. I mean, I like knowing what my friends are doing, but I have other means of knowing what they're up to, and I don't need to share everything I'm doing all the time, either.

They also make a point of saying that social media plays a huge role in a big underlying problem in American society right now, which is the understanding of what is "true" or not. If large amounts of people start to question what is even true (I think this was where the Flat Earthers were mentioned?), it can degrade society as we know it.


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## Dleg (Oct 9, 2020)




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## P-E (Oct 9, 2020)




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## Dleg (Aug 26, 2021)




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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 29, 2022)




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## Dleg (Feb 7, 2022)

Dleg said:


> I've been hearing about these wackos over the past couple years, and recently discovered that a pharmacist I know believes in this shit whole heartedly. He constantly posts on Facebook about it, and uses all sorts of flawed mathematics that he clearly doesn't understand to try to justify it. Nothing will convince him otherwise. What disturbs me most (aside from the movement starting in my home state of Colorado, and apparently headed in part by an engineer) is how this illustrates a poisoning of thought, where people start to genuinely doubt science yet believe in the most improbable, massive conspiracies, all fed by manipulative messages that you can't trust scientists, educated people, professionals, etc. because they must be personally benefitting from it. The Flat Earthers may seem to be the most idiotic of these groups, but the basic tenets underlying their rejection of science are the same as those behind the anti vaccination movement and - yes - climate change denial as well as anti-evolutionism. Because these other erroneous schools of thought were viewed as slightly less absurd and even socially advantageous (in certain religious or political circles), enough people are apparently willing to apply the same level of doubt and skepticism to any number of other scientific theories and fact, especially if it begins to seem popular to do so within their social groups.
> 
> I'm worried that the Flat Earthers are just the beginning of a potentially catastrophic expansion of this type of thinking. The start of another Dark Ages, where progress stalls because science becomes distrusted or even illegal in favor of religion, superstition, and mob rule. While I personally believe that religion can coexist with science, as it has for the past few hundred years, I do think that we've been too weak and tolerant in our response to anti vaxxers, creationists and the like, and if we don't start to more vigorously stand up for science and fact, we could very well be condemning our descendants to a much lower quality of life, and eventually threatening our own science-based profession.
> 
> http://secondnexus.com/technology-and-innovation/flat-earth-society/?utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&amp;tse_id=INF_230818c094c911e7aba2ffcf7683ccd7


I'm doubling down on my initial assessment of where humanity is currently headed.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 7, 2022)

I just...don't...understand. What does NASA or the federal government stand to gain by lying about the earth being a sphere? From what I can tell, the flat-earthers started as an offshoot from the chem-trail conspiracy theorists. They were/are batshit, but at least I can understand their concern if they believe in chem-trails (i.e., the government is surreptitiously drugging us for some unknown goal). But I don't understand what the government stands to gain by getting us to believe that the earth is spherical instead of flat.


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## Supe (Feb 7, 2022)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I just...don't...understand. What does NASA or the federal government stand to gain by lying about the earth being a sphere? From what I can tell, the flat-earthers started as an offshoot from the chem-trail conspiracy theorists. They were/are batshit, but at least I can understand their concern if they believe in chem-trails (i.e., the government is surreptitiously drugging us for some unknown goal). But I don't understand what the government stands to gain by getting us to believe that the earth is spherical instead of flat.


They're just hiding all the aliens and secrets on the other side of the earth we can't see, and don't want anyone to find it. Kind of like how a kid cleans his room by shoving everything under the bed.


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## DLD PE (Feb 7, 2022)

Dleg said:


> I'm doubling down on my initial assessment of where humanity is currently headed.


My opinion: There have always been and there will always be uneducated people, people who can't think reasonably and objectively, and conspiracy theorists (which basically stem from the aforementioned). The age of the internet has given these people a larger platform and therefore, an opportunity to reach out and expand their influence. In my opinion the best weapon against such people is to ignore them.


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## jeb6294 (Feb 7, 2022)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I just...don't...understand. What does NASA or the federal government stand to gain by lying about the earth being a sphere? From what I can tell, the flat-earthers started as an offshoot from the chem-trail conspiracy theorists. They were/are batshit, but at least I can understand their concern if they believe in chem-trails (i.e., the government is surreptitiously drugging us for some unknown goal). But I don't understand what the government stands to gain by getting us to believe that the earth is spherical instead of flat.


Well apparently the chem-trails weren't working and that's why the Gov't conspired with China to invent COVID so we'd all line up to get drugged/microchipped voluntarily.


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## Dleg (Feb 7, 2022)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I just...don't...understand. What does NASA or the federal government stand to gain by lying about the earth being a sphere? From what I can tell, the flat-earthers started as an offshoot from the chem-trail conspiracy theorists. They were/are batshit, but at least I can understand their concern if they believe in chem-trails (i.e., the government is surreptitiously drugging us for some unknown goal). But I don't understand what the government stands to gain by getting us to believe that the earth is spherical instead of flat.


Some of them (no idea what percentage) appear to be upset because they think evidence of a round earth proves the Bible wrong and will turn people into atheists.


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