# 2001 NCEES Practice #127



## BuffaloWings (Feb 17, 2020)

Can someone explain why the answer to Problem #127 is 100F


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## Ramnares P.E. (Feb 18, 2020)

Change in temperature across a throttling valve is assumed to be 0 so T(8) = T(7) = 100F.


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## Dr. Barber (Feb 18, 2020)

Buckley said:


> Can someone explain why the answer to Problem #127 is 100F


Can you post a screenshot of the question?


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## MikeGlass1969 (Feb 18, 2020)

Question 127 ask you to find the Temperature at point 8.


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## Slay the P.E. (Feb 19, 2020)

MikeGlass1969 said:


> Question 127 ask you to find the Temperature at point 8.
> 
> View attachment 16506


Thanks Mike.

@Buckley if you perform an energy balance around the throttle device you’ll get h7 = h8

Since (for ideal gases) the enthalpy changes only with temperature, then if there is no enthalpy change, there is no temperature change, hence T8 = T7.


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## BuffaloWings (Feb 19, 2020)

Thank you everyone!


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## MecEng (Feb 19, 2020)

Slay the P.E. said:


> Thanks Mike.
> 
> @Buckley if you perform an energy balance around the throttle device you’ll get h7 = h8
> 
> Since (for ideal gases) the enthalpy changes only with temperature, then if there is no enthalpy change, there is no temperature change, hence T8 = T7.


@Slay the P.E. I would have been trapped on this and picked 94F, the next temperature in the choices that is slightly lower lower than 100F, simply because the proportionate pressure drops slightly as well.


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## Slay the P.E. (Feb 19, 2020)

MecEng said:


> @Slay the P.E. I would have been trapped on this and picked 94F, the next temperature in the choices that is slightly lower lower than 100F, simply because the proportionate pressure drops slightly as well.


Yes, be careful.

Throttle devices are isenthalpic. It just happens that for ideal gases, isenthalpic = isothermal (regardless of the magnitude of pressure drop). That is not generally the case. For example, look at the throttle device in the vapor compression refrigeration cycle. It is constant enthalpy across the throttle valve, but the inlet is saturated (or sometimes compressed) liquid and the discharge is a liquid-vapor mixture at a substantially lower temperature.


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Feb 21, 2020)

Slay the P.E. said:


> Yes, be careful.
> 
> Throttle devices are isenthalpic. It just happens that for ideal gases, isenthalpic = isothermal (regardless of the magnitude of pressure drop). That is not generally the case. For example, look at the throttle device in the vapor compression refrigeration cycle. It is constant enthalpy across the throttle valve, but the inlet is saturated (or sometimes compressed) liquid and the discharge is a liquid-vapor mixture at a substantially lower temperature.


I came to this thread yesterday to make this same comment but got sidelined at work before I could make it. Well done!  It should be noted that nearly every refrigerant system includes this element for the express purpose of cooling and thus the problem trap is to think of this sort of system, when the key element of this problem is that an ideal gas is used.


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