# How many times can one take the exam



## Keatingiv

Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?


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## maryannette

It varies from state to state. I failed 3 times in NC. I had to have a review and demonstrate additional preparation to take it the 4th time. I passed 4th time.


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## XOXOXO

Keatingiv said:


> Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?


I've taken it four times in CT to date, and will register to take it for the fifth time in April. I don't think NY has a limit to the number of times you can take the exam. I know at least three people who have taken the exam in NY 8+ times (that's right, I wrote that...EIGHT times).

Two of those people stopped studying after the third time I hear, and just decided to wing it until they passed. I tried that the third time I took the exam (after studying my face off for the first two attempts). Needless to say it didn't work. I'm back on the horse and am studying over the next four months.

Good luck!


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## Dexman1349

Unfortunately, this board isn't a good indicator as to how many attempts are needed to take the exam before passing. This is simply because most of the 1 time takers have no reason to stay. I am one of the few 1st timers that have stuck around. Just look at your member number compared to mine and look at how long I've been here. I've only been around for 1yr 8 mos, and there have been over 11k new members.

Then also consider the pass rates as shown on the NCEES website. The pass rate always seems to hover around the 70% range for first time takers.

This being said, I would not worry so much about how many times you need to take the exam, but more on passing the first time. Like the old sports cliche, "Take it one game at a time." If you focus on exam #3, how can you prepare for exam #1?

If you study hard (however you study best) and work your tail off, you stand an excellent chance of passing. I won't guarantee you will pass, as there are several excellent engineers who needed multiple attempts, but just work on this attempt first. Leave your worrying on the # of exams to when you get there.


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## Keatingiv

POed Mommy said:


> Keatingiv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?
> 
> 
> 
> I've taken it four times in CT to date, and will register to take it for the fifth time in April. I don't think NY has a limit to the number of times you can take the exam. I know at least three people who have taken the exam in NY 8+ times (that's right, I wrote that...EIGHT times).
> 
> Two of those people stopped studying after the third time I hear, and just decided to wing it until they passed. I tried that the third time I took the exam (after studying my face off for the first two attempts). Needless to say it didn't work. I'm back on the horse and am studying over the next four months.
> 
> Good luck!
Click to expand...



Did you have to reapply each time you took the test? Fill out the app, get references? or did you only apply once and retake the exam?


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## Dexman1349

In CO, your application is good for up to 2 years. Once you take an exam, the 2 yr's is reset (2 years from after you took the exam). If you fail, you have 2 years from the date of the previous exam to take it again. The only thing you have to do is re-register (and pay the fee) for the new exam. You don't have to get new references or fill out a new application.


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## guld0017

In MN I was good for 4 exams. The 5th attempt(passing) I needed to provide a signature of a tutor(P.E.) or a receipt for a class showing that I was expanding my engineering knowledge in order to receive an ok to take the test. My advice, pass it as soon as you can.


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## jd2u

I took the exam in AR: First attempt in April 2008 and second in Oct. 2008. I studied very little for either (Why? I have no legitimate answer). I took a year off and started Studying on August 10 and hit the books and worked as many problems as I could 2 to 3 hours a night, weeknights, and an extra hour or two on weekend days. I stopped on Oct. 16 and went into review mode thru the 21st. I passed!

*[SIZE=10pt]Dexman[/SIZE]* said it right... Study hard and it will be there for you. Good Luck.


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## XOXOXO

Keatingiv said:


> POed Mommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keatingiv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?
> 
> 
> 
> I've taken it four times in CT to date, and will register to take it for the fifth time in April. I don't think NY has a limit to the number of times you can take the exam. I know at least three people who have taken the exam in NY 8+ times (that's right, I wrote that...EIGHT times).
> 
> Two of those people stopped studying after the third time I hear, and just decided to wing it until they passed. I tried that the third time I took the exam (after studying my face off for the first two attempts). Needless to say it didn't work. I'm back on the horse and am studying over the next four months.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have to reapply each time you took the test? Fill out the app, get references? or did you only apply once and retake the exam?
Click to expand...

NO...thank GOD. You just submit your (ahem) fee each time. No need to reapply.


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## MRDPE

*FYI: *the new NCEES examinee management system going into affect with the October 2010 exam may make it more difficult for retaking the test a large number of times. Info from their _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _states the following:



This online system will allow boards to track a candidate’s exam attempts across jurisdictions. This will strengthen exam security and allow boards to better enforce limits on exam attempts.
More info from NCEES _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _on the new examinee management system: http://bit.ly/cxBdBs


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## Ajay

I took the exam in California last time and passed. I don't think there is a limit on how many times you can take the PE exam. I myself took the exam thrice, and passed on the third attempt....

First time when i took the exam, i just decided to give it a shot with out studying for the exam....i took WR depth.....the second time, i had this weird idea of changing my depth portion to transportation thinking it is much easier than WR....i studied for the exam, but during the exam i spent most of the time going through the manuals and handbooks for transportation and traffic....

third time, i finally decided to stick with WR depth and and studied my butt-off....to be honest with you guys, i would suggest concentrate more on the afternoon portion that AM portion....for the AM portion, i didn't study Structures at all...for the AM portion it is more than enough to study the CERM, especially for the WR, Geotech and Transportation....


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## jeb6294

MRDPE said:


> *FYI: *the new NCEES examinee management system going into affect with the October 2010 exam may make it more difficult for retaking the test a large number of times. Info from their _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _states the following:
> &lt;B&gt;
> 
> This online system will allow boards to track a candidate's exam attempts across jurisdictions. This will strengthen exam security and allow boards to better enforce limits on exam attempts.
> &lt;/B&gt;More info from NCEES _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _on the new examinee management system: http://bit.ly/cxBdBs


When I was at the Corps in Jacksonville, there was a guy there that tried to pass it in Florida but didn't pass it before hitting their limit...I think it's 3 in Fla. He just went and took it in Georgia until he finally passed it there. I'm not sure how many tries it took him to get it there.


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## KEG

When I was at the Corps in Jacksonville, there was a guy there that tried to pass it in Florida but didn't pass it before hitting their limit...I think it's 3 in Fla. He just went and took it in Georgia until he finally passed it there. I'm not sure how many tries it took him to get it there.


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## IlPadrino

Keatingiv said:


> Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality.


That's not the right attitude. *Anyone* can pass the test on the first time even if everyone doesn't. You need to go in thinking you've done enough to pass - otherwise you're not to be taken seriously. Still, don't get too disappointed if you fail and get back on the horse! Persistence does pay off (as many here will testify).


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## rppearso

MRDPE said:


> *FYI: *the new NCEES examinee management system going into affect with the October 2010 exam may make it more difficult for retaking the test a large number of times. Info from their _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _states the following:
> 
> 
> This online system will allow boards to track a candidate’s exam attempts across jurisdictions. This will strengthen exam security and allow boards to better enforce limits on exam attempts.
> More info from NCEES _LICENSURE EXCHANGE _on the new examinee management system: http://bit.ly/cxBdBs


This will probably go into effect along with the BS +30 rule, I would recommend people pass there PE asap and start taking classes thats what im doing. I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting. I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.


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## wilheldp_PE

There's not a snowball's chance in hell of BS+30 being retroactive. Most board members that vote on model law acceptance would be ineligible under those rules, so the likelihood of it being adopted would be zero.


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## roadwreck

rppearso said:


> I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.


The younger generation didn't have to walk uphill both ways to school in ten feet of snow with no shoes! ld-025:


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## Flyer_PE

rppearso said:


> I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting.



More likely, it will just provide an incentive for more employers/industries to get themselves declared exempt. Having the PE doesn't mean much to an employer that doesn't need one.


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## IlPadrino

rppearso said:


> This will probably go into effect along with the BS +30 rule, I would recommend people pass there PE asap and start taking classes thats what im doing. I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting. I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.


This will go into effect *this year*, not whenever BS+30 happens (2020 or so I've heard). As already answered, they chances of it being retroactive are pretty slim.


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## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> There's not a snowball's chance in hell of BS+30 being retroactive. Most board members that vote on model law acceptance would be ineligible under those rules, so the likelihood of it being adopted would be zero.


In that case it would just be a burden because older people could still compete in the job market WITH the PE but without the additional burden making it just as hard for young people to compete, I guess it would cut out some competition in there age group but not enough to off set the burden enough to accumulate 30 credits. It would be the equ to a masters degree or a second BS and it would only slightly increase the odds of getting a job probably not even significant enought to notice (ie multi job offers for fatty sums). At least I enjoy what I do so I can live in my hovel and work on engineering problems, at least I have my eye sight which Euler did not have by mid life lol.


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## rppearso

Flyer_PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More likely, it will just provide an incentive for more employers/industries to get themselves declared exempt. Having the PE doesn't mean much to an employer that doesn't need one.
Click to expand...

Yea companies have been dodging regulation for decades and the states largly dont really enforce anything so alot of the engineering regulations have no teeth unless there is some catastrophic failure and people get killed then there is a big news story for a few days and everyone forgets about it. But that is just for protection of people not protection of well paying professional jobs which is really the issue.


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## rppearso

IlPadrino said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will probably go into effect along with the BS +30 rule, I would recommend people pass there PE asap and start taking classes thats what im doing. I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting. I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.
> 
> 
> 
> This will go into effect *this year*, not whenever BS+30 happens (2020 or so I've heard). As already answered, they chances of it being retroactive are pretty slim.
Click to expand...

If its not retro active one could argue that its discriminitory, the rule makers are basicly making rules that they themselves may not meet. I think I can make 30 credits by 2020 lol, it depends on what the base line is, since my degree required like 136 credits which was almost 10 credits more than most other universities hopefully that will put me at only 20 required which I can make by 2020 and most likely get a second BS out of the deal.


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## cantaloup

rppearso said:


> IlPadrino said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will probably go into effect along with the BS +30 rule, I would recommend people pass there PE asap and start taking classes thats what im doing. I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting. I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.
> 
> 
> 
> This will go into effect *this year*, not whenever BS+30 happens (2020 or so I've heard). As already answered, they chances of it being retroactive are pretty slim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If its not retro active one could argue that its discriminitory, the rule makers are basicly making rules that they themselves may not meet. I think I can make 30 credits by 2020 lol, it depends on what the base line is, since my degree required like 136 credits which was almost 10 credits more than most other universities hopefully that will put me at only 20 required which I can make by 2020 and most likely get a second BS out of the deal.
Click to expand...

136 credits are not much, I had to take over 150 hrs to get a BSc in Civil Engineering!!!


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## rppearso

cantaloup said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IlPadrino said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will probably go into effect along with the BS +30 rule, I would recommend people pass there PE asap and start taking classes thats what im doing. I think its a good thing that they are tightening the reins on the PE as it will reduce the number of people that have them and make it more valuable and easier to go job hunting. I hope they make this stuff retroactive, if not it will really be a hose job for the younger generation.
> 
> 
> 
> This will go into effect *this year*, not whenever BS+30 happens (2020 or so I've heard). As already answered, they chances of it being retroactive are pretty slim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If its not retro active one could argue that its discriminitory, the rule makers are basicly making rules that they themselves may not meet. I think I can make 30 credits by 2020 lol, it depends on what the base line is, since my degree required like 136 credits which was almost 10 credits more than most other universities hopefully that will put me at only 20 required which I can make by 2020 and most likely get a second BS out of the deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 136 credits are not much, I had to take over 150 hrs to get a BSc in Civil Engineering!!!
Click to expand...

You must be in your 40's or 50's, the colorado school of mines wrote an article on that very issue (because of the old people being all cranky about us lazy slack a** younger generation lol) stating that we have more computer aided software and better calculators and can cover more material with less credits, among a plethera of other changes since the time you went to school. Credit hours does not nessicarily equate to rigor it can simply be a difference in how the classes are structured or even a difference in time and how different amounts of credit are assigned to different classes. Your calc class may have been like 5 credits back in the day and now they are 3 and 4, if you apply that change across all the courses required for a BS thats a huge discrepency. As long as the school is ABET accreditied the credit hours should not matter, ABET is suppose to go though and make sure the university is covering all the topics with adaquate rigor and the bean counting of the hours is really inconsequential. That being said I dont think the +30 credits is a bad idea but they need to give people adaquate time to get thoes credits or for thoes still in school they need to adjust the ABET requirements so students comming out of school are not behind the 8 ball right off the bat when they are trying to get there PE. 10 years is enough time to get 30 credits, thats about one 3 credit class a year and will double as your continuing education.

I bet you had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to get to class as well lol.


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## Dexman PE

^^^ that was a real dick-head way to say that the credit hours vary from school to school and program to program (2010 CSM requirements for Civil = 138.5 &amp; Mechanical = 140.5).

As long as it's ABET accredited, it's all the same anyways.


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## benbo

rppearso said:


> You must be in your 40's or 50's, the colorado school of mines wrote an article on that very issue (because of the old people being all cranky about us lazy slack a** younger generation lol) stating that we have more computer aided software and better calculators and can cover more material with less credits, among a *plethera* of other changes since the time you went to school. Credit hours does not *nessicarily *equate to rigor it can simply be a difference in how the classes are structured or even a difference in time and how different amounts of credit are assigned to different classes. Your calc class may have been like 5 credits back in the day and now they are 3 and 4, if you apply that change across all the courses required for a BS thats a huge *discrepency*. As long as the school is ABET *accreditied* the credit hours should not matter, ABET *is suppose *to go though and make sure the university is covering all the topics with *adaquate* rigor and the bean counting of the hours is really inconsequential. That being said I *dont* think the +30 credits is a bad idea but they need to give people *adaquate *time to get thoes credits or for *thoes *still in school they need to adjust the ABET requirements so students *comming* out of school are not behind the 8 ball right off the bat when they are trying to get *there PE*. 10 years is enough time to get 30 credits, thats about one 3 credit class a year and will double as your continuing education.
> I bet you had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to get to class as well lol.


In some cases I wish they had added just a few more units in spelling and grammar.


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## rppearso

benbo said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be in your 40's or 50's, the colorado school of mines wrote an article on that very issue (because of the old people being all cranky about us lazy slack a** younger generation lol) stating that we have more computer aided software and better calculators and can cover more material with less credits, among a *plethera* of other changes since the time you went to school. Credit hours does not *nessicarily *equate to rigor it can simply be a difference in how the classes are structured or even a difference in time and how different amounts of credit are assigned to different classes. Your calc class may have been like 5 credits back in the day and now they are 3 and 4, if you apply that change across all the courses required for a BS thats a huge *discrepency*. As long as the school is ABET *accreditied* the credit hours should not matter, ABET *is suppose *to go though and make sure the university is covering all the topics with *adaquate* rigor and the bean counting of the hours is really inconsequential. That being said I *dont* think the +30 credits is a bad idea but they need to give people *adaquate *time to get thoes credits or for *thoes *still in school they need to adjust the ABET requirements so students *comming* out of school are not behind the 8 ball right off the bat when they are trying to get *there PE*. 10 years is enough time to get 30 credits, thats about one 3 credit class a year and will double as your continuing education.
> I bet you had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to get to class as well lol.
> 
> 
> 
> In some cases I wish they had added just a few more units in spelling and grammar.
Click to expand...

But they dident and when I tried to take a writing class after graduation I was lucky to pull a B and he said you really have no idea what your doing do you, and I said nope thats why im here, I think he was a lazy instructor and I am to busy with just having passed my PE and advanced engineering math to keep trying to imporve my english since it has no impact on my job performacen (obvoiusly I spell check on offical work documents and have someone proof read). Sorry if I came across as dick head but it gets old hearing the older generation whine about how they had it so hard and how things were so much more rigorus back then and how we are such slack a**'s these days thats what I read between the lines, that mentality from the older generation was so prevalent that CSM wrote an article about it a few months ago.


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## benbo

rppearso said:


> But they dident and when I tried to take a writing class after graduation I was lucky to pull a B and he said you really have no idea what your doing do you, and I said nope thats why im here, I think he was a lazy instructor and I am to busy with just having passed my PE and advanced engineering math to keep trying to imporve my english since it has no impact on my job performacen (obvoiusly I spell check on offical work documents and have someone proof read). Sorry if I came across as dick head but it gets old hearing the older generation whine about how they had it so hard and how things were so much more rigorus back then and how we are such slack a**'s these days thats what I read between the lines, that mentality from the older generation was so prevalent that CSM wrote an article about it a few months ago.


I assume you don't make these mistakes at work, at least not as much. But you always write A LOT. I wouldn't say anything, since after all this is the internet, but sometimes it is actually hard to follow.

And I am one of those old farts, with a lot of job experience, and in my opinion, good communications skills are as important or probably more important in the job world than "advanced engineering math" or even a PE (unless you are a civil engineer). These skills are probably only second in importance to your actual industry specific job tasks. I've never been asked to compute a Power Spectral Density function at work, but I sure have been asked to give presentations and write reports. Better written communication will probably help, and certainly can't hurt you in your quest to earn the "fatty" money.


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## Dexman PE

Ok, I'm going to call you out rppearso. You have posted nothing of any value on this forum since you got here, but somehow justify complaining to the fact that no one takes you seriously (or even on other forums). I have yet to see anything that actually identifies you as a productive member of society, let alone as an engineer. You have the attitude, maturity, intellegence, writing style, spelling, and grammar of a 12 year old. You want people to take you seriously? GROW UP.

BTW, we're not the first to call you out:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/anchorage/8...echanics-2.html &lt;--- the last post on page 2 is particularly interesting


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## rppearso

Dexman PE said:


> Ok, I'm going to call you out rppearso. You have posted nothing of any value on this forum since you got here, but somehow justify complaining to the fact that no one takes you seriously (or even on other forums). I have yet to see anything that actually identifies you as a productive member of society, let alone as an engineer. You have the attitude, maturity, intellegence, writing style, spelling, and grammar of a 12 year old. You want people to take you seriously? GROW UP.
> BTW, we're not the first to call you out:
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/anchorage/8...echanics-2.html &lt;--- the last post on page 2 is particularly interesting


Ah yes that was entertaining, to many idiots on that form so it was not a huge loss to get banned. As far as the last post thoes were some entertaining times, I have to take breaks from studying or whatever and its fun to discuss things like that, unfortunatly some peoples forums are boring and as soon as you add some spice everyone gets all bent out of shape, how dare you blah blah blah, everything I post is factual they just generally dont want to hear it well ok fine but thats boring im not going to participate in a forum to talk about the weather or the paint drying or how fast your grass grows. I write reports all the time, the thing people fail to realize (espeically in other forums) is that this is a forum not my job. I will admit I have a bad habit of putting commas where periods should be and am working on that and make a very consious effort to not do that on work reports. If you dont want to be called out then dont put that you have so many credits and that 136 credits is nothing followed by exclamation points.

"136 credits are not much, I had to take over 150 hrs to get a BSc in Civil Engineering!!! " It was enough to get an ABET accredited degree from one of the best schools in the nation so its definitly not nothing, but this is the standard old timer talk and its really old lol (no pun intended). In fact its so old that CSM did an article on it, of course that wont stop old timers from using it to destroy relationships, some of them do it in jest but some of them are holier than thou about it.


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## benbo

rppearso said:


> I will admit I have a bad habit of putting commas where periods should be and am working on that and make a very consious effort to not do that on work reports.


Your main problem is that you can't spell even simple words. But if you're fine with that, it's up to you.


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## rppearso

benbo said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will admit I have a bad habit of putting commas where periods should be and am working on that and make a very consious effort to not do that on work reports.
> 
> 
> 
> Your main problem is that you can't spell even simple words. But if you're fine with that, it's up to you.
Click to expand...

Alot of that is just typos that I dont bother to correct because im just taking short breaks at work im not going to spend inordinate amounts of time correcting spelling. If my spelling is prohibitive to you talking with me then thats life. In general I find that the spelling is a scape goat because someone does not like my assertions but since all of my assertions are factualy they cant really rebuke them but they are pissed off none the less so they just rag on the spelling or ban me, its really a pride issue, they cant admit that there assertion was messed up and they were being an idiot. People who vehminitly promote something they cant back up are the funnest.


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## benbo

rppearso said:


> Alot of that is just typos that I dont bother to correct because im just taking short breaks at work im not going to spend inordinate amounts of time correcting spelling. If my spelling is prohibitive to you talking with me then thats life. In general I find that the spelling is a scape goat because someone does not like my assertions but since all of my assertions are factualy they cant really rebuke them but they are pissed off none the less so they just rag on the spelling or ban me, its really a pride issue, they cant admit that there assertion was messed up and they were being an idiot. People who vehminitly promote something they cant back up are the funnest.


rp-I have no idea what your assertions even are, your writing is so confusing. I took a look at some of your posts on a physics board and was amused to see you struggling with some really simple first order differential equations. I think most of us learned that sophmore year of college at least. It was last year, so I hope you've been able to move past that in the intervening months of the study of "advanced math". But I will stop communicating with you because your posts are the opposite of elevating.

By the way - those are not typos. I wouldn't even mention it if it were typos. It is simple to tell the difference.


----------



## rppearso

benbo said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alot of that is just typos that I dont bother to correct because im just taking short breaks at work im not going to spend inordinate amounts of time correcting spelling. If my spelling is prohibitive to you talking with me then thats life. In general I find that the spelling is a scape goat because someone does not like my assertions but since all of my assertions are factualy they cant really rebuke them but they are pissed off none the less so they just rag on the spelling or ban me, its really a pride issue, they cant admit that there assertion was messed up and they were being an idiot. People who vehminitly promote something they cant back up are the funnest.
> 
> 
> 
> rp-I have no idea what your assertions even are, your writing is so confusing. I took a look at some of your posts on a physics board and was amused to see you struggling with some really simple first order differential equations. I think most of us learned that sophmore year of college at least. It was last year, so I hope you've been able to move past that in the intervening months of the study of "advanced math". But I will stop communicating with you because your posts are the opposite of elevating.
> 
> By the way - those are not typos. I wouldn't even mention it if it were typos. It is simple to tell the difference.
Click to expand...

It was a simple bernouli differential equation which I had not seen before, im not affraid to seek other tools or help to expend my knowlage, and if its simple then I better figure it out quick right.


----------



## Mike in Gastonia

rppearso said:


> benbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alot of that is just typos that I dont bother to correct because im just taking short breaks at work im not going to spend inordinate amounts of time correcting spelling. If my spelling is prohibitive to you talking with me then thats life. In general I find that the spelling is a scape goat because someone does not like my assertions but since all of my assertions are factualy they cant really rebuke them but they are pissed off none the less so they just rag on the spelling or ban me, its really a pride issue, they cant admit that there assertion was messed up and they were being an idiot. People who vehminitly promote something they cant back up are the funnest.
> 
> 
> 
> rp-I have no idea what your assertions even are, your writing is so confusing. I took a look at some of your posts on a physics board and was amused to see you struggling with some really simple first order differential equations. I think most of us learned that sophmore year of college at least. It was last year, so I hope you've been able to move past that in the intervening months of the study of "advanced math". But I will stop communicating with you because your posts are the opposite of elevating.
> 
> By the way - those are not typos. I wouldn't even mention it if it were typos. It is simple to tell the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a simple bernouli differential equation which I had not seen before, im not affraid to seek other tools or help to *expend my knowlage*, and if its simple then I better figure it out quick right.
Click to expand...

Now I understand why his posts aren't clear - he has expended his knowledge.......


----------



## wilheldp_PE

rppearso said:


> Sorry if I came across as dick head but it gets old hearing the older generation whine about how they had it so hard and how things were so much more rigorus back then and how we are such slack a**'s these days thats what I read between the lines, that mentality from the older generation was so prevalent that CSM wrote an article about it a few months ago.


No, what's really annoying is you coming in here bitching because you aren't making fatty money because you've got a fancy engineering degree and a chip on your shoulder. I'm not that much older than you, and while I'm trying to maximize my earning potential at this point in my life, I'm not bitching about the fact that I'm not getting double digit raises every year. Also, your degree from CSM doesn't impress me because last time I checked my school was ranked above yours (#1 for undergrad engineering schools for 10 years running). You need to get over yourself, and gain some humility if you ever want to make it in this world. I know that if you were my employee, I'd fire your ass because of your attitude.


----------



## benbo

rppearso said:


> It was a simple bernouli differential equation which I had not seen before, im not affraid to seek other tools or help to expend my knowlage, and if its simple then I better figure it out quick right.


Okay, I know I said I wasn't going to respond, and this is my last one. You spent tens of thousand of dollars on an education and they never taught you Bernoulli's differential equation format? Are you sure? It's on something like page 5 of the Boyce and Diprima book I used for undergrad ODE. That was many years ago, and although I probably couldn't solve it myself without some review, at least I remember it. I think you graduated maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Plus, I don't claim to be the reincarnation of Leibniz.


----------



## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I came across as dick head but it gets old hearing the older generation whine about how they had it so hard and how things were so much more rigorus back then and how we are such slack a**'s these days thats what I read between the lines, that mentality from the older generation was so prevalent that CSM wrote an article about it a few months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> No, what's really annoying is you coming in here bitching because you aren't making fatty money because you've got a fancy engineering degree and a chip on your shoulder. I'm not that much older than you, and while I'm trying to maximize my earning potential at this point in my life, I'm not bitching about the fact that I'm not getting double digit raises every year. Also, your degree from CSM doesn't impress me because last time I checked my school was ranked above yours (#1 for undergrad engineering schools for 10 years running). You need to get over yourself, and gain some humility if you ever want to make it in this world. I know that if you were my employee, I'd fire your ass because of your attitude.
Click to expand...

That just means that in your neck of the woods for your particular disipline of engineering, engineers are expendible and not really worth much if you can so readily fire them over a non engineering related issue, its a simple supply and demand issue thats been my entire point all along, especially if there are a plethera of engineers getting shafted on compenstation, im not really bitching about it (maybe a little) but mostly just stating facts and that its really probably not a good idea for young people to get into because the money is not really there, the work is extremely difficult and requires alot of sacrafice and the pay out is really not all that, heck I have 5 yrs experience and a PE and have not been able to break 6 figures yet let alone the 200k mark, so its really just a regular job that only pays slightly more than any other run of the mil job (that maybe required vocational training or an associates) (heck I even make less than some used car sales men that shows how well respected engineers are). You must have went to MIT then because there are not to many schools ranked above CSM for chemical eng in particular, as a whole CSM does not ususally rank in the top 10 you have to break it down by disipline but I dont think you really care about the facts you just wanted to make an inflamitory remark.

I agree the facts do suck but its not my fault that this is the future reality for engineering.

Also its actually not that big of a deal that I was either not taught or did not remember that particular form of diff equ, I asked the question got an answer and looked it up, it was like a 30 min process after I got the answer and even if I did nto get that answer I could have dug it up in a few hours, as an engineer this should not be new news to you but like I said above you are looking for ammo to make inflamitory remarks directly against me because your an a** hole where as my concerns lie with the decline of the profession and my frustration with that fact as you should all be frustrated. I had a co worker do a time value of money calculation and based on inflation and other factors we make significantly less starting pay than engineers did 20-30 years ago and its getting harder to break away from that sub standard pay into what engineers used to make, thats just a fact.


----------



## rppearso

benbo said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a simple bernouli differential equation which I had not seen before, im not affraid to seek other tools or help to expend my knowlage, and if its simple then I better figure it out quick right.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I know I said I wasn't going to respond, and this is my last one. You spent tens of thousand of dollars on an education and they never taught you Bernoulli's differential equation format? Are you sure? It's on something like page 5 of the Boyce and Diprima book I used for undergrad ODE. That was many years ago, and although I probably couldn't solve it myself without some review, at least I remember it. I think you graduated maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Plus, I don't claim to be the reincarnation of Leibniz.
Click to expand...

I actually purchased a graduate thermodynamics book that was on MIT open course ware and started to go through it and realized my math skills were lacking that is why im in another math class right now, it would be nice to be able to understand math like Gauss or Euler, just have to keep plugging along. But in all reality I never have to do math like that in my job, its mainly for my own understanding (and the one in a million off chance I may have the opprotunity to solve a problem like that at work). So I dont claim to be Euler or Fourier but I am an engineer and am frustrated with the decline of our profession as all of you should be, its a major concern. It would be like if doctors started making sub six figure incomes no one would hardly do it anymore, I dont recommend it to anymore as the work is to hard and the pay is to low, you can make just as much being a car sales man or a auto mechanic.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

rppearso said:


> That just means that in your neck of the woods for your particular disipline of engineering, engineers are expendible and not really worth much if you can so readily fire them over a non engineering related issue, its a simple supply and demand issue thats been my entire point all along, especially if there are a plethera of engineers getting shafted on compenstation, im not really bitching about it (maybe a little)


It's not an a non-engineering related issue, it's a non-professionalism issue. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the demand is down and supply is up across the board in this country. If you want a job, let alone a fatty salary, you better be pretty damned good at what you do and be able to prove it.



rppearso said:


> but mostly just stating facts and that its really probably not a good idea for young people to get into because the money is not really there, the work is extremely difficult and requires alot of sacrafice and the pay out is really not all that,


Stating that you are stating facts does not make what you are stating factual. In fact, if you have to point out to people that your statements are factual, they are usually not.



rppearso said:


> heck I have 5 yrs experience and a PE and have not been able to break 6 figures yet let alone the 200k mark


Here's a clue, since you are obviously devoid of them. There are very few engineers that make six figure salaries with 5 years experience. All of them are in places with high costs of living (CA, NY, Chicago, etc), or they are exceptionally good at what they do. If I'm not mistaken, you are from Alaska, which has a medium cost of living and an exceptionally low tax rate (negative, I believe). You are going to need a lot more experience, or a move to higher paying region, or actually display talent instead of bitching about being underpaid in extremely long run-on sentences if you want to make that kind of money.

Then again, there's only so many times people will tell you this before they give up and report to personal attacks or attacks on your grammar or limited grasp of simple engineering concepts...which is what has happened on this forum, and apparently every other forum you have every joined.

I'm surprised you aren't a more happy person. I guess ignorance isn't bliss.


----------



## carlos2

Keatingiv said:


> Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?


----------



## carlos2

Keatingiv said:


> Hey I am thinking of taking the PE in Massachiusetts in October. im working on the application now. I was reading the Regulations for Massachusetts as well as some of the posts on this site, which have been very informative, if I might add. Anyway, I notices in the MAss regs that an engineer with 4 years experince and a ABET college engineering degree can take the test a Max of 2 times before they are subject to a review nad further education requirements to take the exam a third time. This is typical of Massacbusetts, at least it was with my other licenses, I noticed that most memebers here averaged at least taking the exam two times and some even more thn two times. Considering that I am relitivly rusty, I am guessin that it is going to take me a few times around before I pass. It just reality. I wanted to know if there is another state that offers the exam to which not penalized after failing the exam twice. In other words is there a state or states that allow the candid date to take the exam more than three times. I guess it is my OCD but that is just me. Anyone have any experinece with NY?


Information about NY is listed in their website: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/pels/pelic.ht.../pels/pelic.htm. I did not see information about how many times you can take the exam. I would give them a call and find out. This is what I did in North Carolina. I learned about how many times you can take it by calling them. In North Carolina you can take it three times without a problem. For the fourth time you need to demonstrate that you prepared for the exam. And it gets progressively worse. To take the exam for the fifth time, candidates have to go before a committee that will prescribe remedial courses before you can take it again.

I wrote a publication that provides advice for repeat test takers: Guerrilla Tactics for the PE Exam. My advice is that you do not rush to take the exam again. Take extra time and overprepare for the next exam to make sure that you pass. I did this and it worked. The first and second time that I took the exam I was barely finishing the morning session in 4 hours and I was working answers for about 60% of the afternoon session. I passed the third time. I finished the morning session in three hours and worked out answers for 90% of the afternoon session problems

Carlos Chapek

www.testprepessentials.com


----------



## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> That just means that in your neck of the woods for your particular disipline of engineering, engineers are expendible and not really worth much if you can so readily fire them over a non engineering related issue, its a simple supply and demand issue thats been my entire point all along, especially if there are a plethera of engineers getting shafted on compenstation, im not really bitching about it (maybe a little)
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an a non-engineering related issue, it's a non-professionalism issue. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the demand is down and supply is up across the board in this country. If you want a job, let alone a fatty salary, you better be pretty damned good at what you do and be able to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> but mostly just stating facts and that its really probably not a good idea for young people to get into because the money is not really there, the work is extremely difficult and requires alot of sacrafice and the pay out is really not all that,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stating that you are stating facts does not make what you are stating factual. In fact, if you have to point out to people that your statements are factual, they are usually not.
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> heck I have 5 yrs experience and a PE and have not been able to break 6 figures yet let alone the 200k mark
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's a clue, since you are obviously devoid of them. There are very few engineers that make six figure salaries with 5 years experience. All of them are in places with high costs of living (CA, NY, Chicago, etc), or they are exceptionally good at what they do. If I'm not mistaken, you are from Alaska, which has a medium cost of living and an exceptionally low tax rate (negative, I believe). You are going to need a lot more experience, or a move to higher paying region, or actually display talent instead of bitching about being underpaid in extremely long run-on sentences if you want to make that kind of money.
> 
> Then again, there's only so many times people will tell you this before they give up and report to personal attacks or attacks on your grammar or limited grasp of simple engineering concepts...which is what has happened on this forum, and apparently every other forum you have every joined.
> 
> I'm surprised you aren't a more happy person. I guess ignorance isn't bliss.
Click to expand...

Well you agreed that supply is up and demand down for engineers and they are not making the money they once used to so you upheld all my assertions hence why I tell young people not to do it, all the other hoop la is irrelavant, if the money is not there then people should not start into it as a carrer field, I kind of got burned because when I was looking at programs in the 90's engineers were respected and compensation was high. Also Alaska is a very high cost of living (no taxes) but the cost for goods and real estate far outweigh the tax benifit. What usually goes down on forums like this is someone like you (contributor, original member, buddy buddy with the site owner, etc) can make inflamitory remarks and when I defend myself I get banned, thats just life, but if you cant rationalize with me in a civil manner why my opinion/views are messed up other than by making inflamitory remarks then im not just going to roll over. You started off right out of the gate with all kinds of inflamitory remarks and hate and expect me to "get it". There is not to much I can do about my situation right now because im to far commited to engineering (and I do like it) but it sucks. I am actually a very happy person I just dont like working for free and im very surprised that others do. Its almost like I have to re-figure out what I want to do when I grow up if im going to make any money, I can play it out a few more years but if compensation does not improve I will have to find something else before im 40 and working for sub 6 figures just because there are to many engineers and the profession has basicly become worthless.


----------



## Dexman PE

I think the point you are missing is that you seem to be under the impression that just because you're an engineer and you have your PE, you should automatically command 6 figures. It appears you truly don't understand the dynamic of the engineering field. Yes, supply is up and demand is down, but it's more complex than that. You forget that most of the engineering contracts are awarded to the low bidder. As long as the supply of engineering firms is more than the demand for engineering work, those low-bid contracts will continue to hold engineering prices down. How do you expect to win any work (and ultimately keep a job) if you're submitting bids for $100/hr if low bid contracts are going to $40/hr engineers? As long as consultants continue to work on low-bid contracts, the rest of the industry will set their pay rates accordingly (why should the states pay their engineers $100/hr if consultants are only charging $40?)

Couple that with the fact that the number of contracts continue to go down because both public and private agencies dont have the funding they used to due to reduced income streams.

Additionally, income levels depend heavily on location. Do you really know how Alaska compares to the rest of the US for cost of living? Here is a website dedicated to cost of living comparison:

http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp

According to this site, a $100k income/cost of living in Denver (where I live) is comperable to $90k in Anchorage. Denver is NOT even close to being the most expensive place to live in the US. People live very comfortably with a total household income of under $50k here in Denver (own their own home, new cars every 3-5 years, AND have kids). Additionally, the average income in Denver is $38k compared to $35k in Anchorage (US average = $34k). Most engineers in the Denver area with a PE and ~5years experience earn in the neighborhood of $60k-$70k (depending on industry - mech vs civil vs chemE, etc), which according to the website is only $50k-$62k in Anchorage.

I think you really need to get a clue about what the hell you're talking about before you start spouting off "facts" concerning the engineering business, especially when you're spouting off on an engineering board. The reason so many of us have dropped to the level of name calling and put downs is that seems to be the only thing you really seem to be able to respond to.


----------



## Mike in Gastonia

OK, it's become obvious that mister rppearso isn't going to quit arguing and is getting under everyone's skin. He apparently gets his jollies going from message board to message board trying to see how many people he can tick off before he gets banned. I suggest we just don't respond to him. Everyone knows someone like this guy. You're never going to convince him or change his mind, so don't engage him.....


----------



## MechGuy

:banhim:

My only comment on the subject.


----------



## MechGuy

ok I couldn't help it, this quote from one of the other forums is just too good to resist!

"Try obtusetwitswhoareunabletocomprehendtheenglishlanguage.com"


----------



## Dexman PE

MechGuy said:


> :banhim: My only comment on the subject.


+1


----------



## rppearso

Dexman PE said:


> I think the point you are missing is that you seem to be under the impression that just because you're an engineer and you have your PE, you should automatically command 6 figures. It appears you truly don't understand the dynamic of the engineering field. Yes, supply is up and demand is down, but it's more complex than that. You forget that most of the engineering contracts are awarded to the low bidder. As long as the supply of engineering firms is more than the demand for engineering work, those low-bid contracts will continue to hold engineering prices down. How do you expect to win any work (and ultimately keep a job) if you're submitting bids for $100/hr if low bid contracts are going to $40/hr engineers? As long as consultants continue to work on low-bid contracts, the rest of the industry will set their pay rates accordingly (why should the states pay their engineers $100/hr if consultants are only charging $40?)
> Couple that with the fact that the number of contracts continue to go down because both public and private agencies dont have the funding they used to due to reduced income streams.
> 
> Additionally, income levels depend heavily on location. Do you really know how Alaska compares to the rest of the US for cost of living? Here is a website dedicated to cost of living comparison:
> 
> http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp
> 
> According to this site, a $100k income/cost of living in Denver (where I live) is comperable to $90k in Anchorage. Denver is NOT even close to being the most expensive place to live in the US. People live very comfortably with a total household income of under $50k here in Denver (own their own home, new cars every 3-5 years, AND have kids). Additionally, the average income in Denver is $38k compared to $35k in Anchorage (US average = $34k). Most engineers in the Denver area with a PE and ~5years experience earn in the neighborhood of $60k-$70k (depending on industry - mech vs civil vs chemE, etc), which according to the website is only $50k-$62k in Anchorage.
> 
> I think you really need to get a clue about what the hell you're talking about before you start spouting off "facts" concerning the engineering business, especially when you're spouting off on an engineering board. The reason so many of us have dropped to the level of name calling and put downs is that seems to be the only thing you really seem to be able to respond to.


I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

rppearso said:


> I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.


Give me an example of a time where the majority of PEs with 5 years experience made $100,000 or more. You seem to indicate that there was some "golden age" of engineering where everybody was swimming in silos full of money (a la Scrooge McDuck). I think that is a fantasy that you made up to rationalize spending way too much money for an education that apparently taught you nothing.


----------



## picusld

Dexman PE said:


> MechGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> :banhim: My only comment on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> +1
Click to expand...

+1 more.


----------



## kevo_55

+1 as well.


----------



## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutly agree with you, its just a crumby deal and the money is no longer there like it used to be thats all I was saying hence why I dont recommend the field to others. I dont know how people live comfortably on 60k a year when that is like ~3k a month net and in a nice area of denver your probably looking at 2k a month for mortgage, gas, electric, internet, etc etc and then add kids and a car payment no way is that comfortable as you will be living pay check to pay check and as soon as your laid off your done. In order to get ahead before your 120 years old you have to be making more than 60k a year.... alot more.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me an example of a time where the majority of PEs with 5 years experience made $100,000 or more. You seem to indicate that there was some "golden age" of engineering where everybody was swimming in silos full of money (a la Scrooge McDuck). I think that is a fantasy that you made up to rationalize spending way too much money for an education that apparently taught you nothing.
Click to expand...

Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.


----------



## roadwreck

rppearso said:


> There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though.


There's your problem. You are focusing on one field of engineering, during a small window of time, with a limited sample size (your one friend that said they made a lot of money then).

Wake up. Engineers on the whole, were not making 6 figure salaries (or the inflation adjusted equivalent) during this "golden age" you speak of. Every industry ebbs and flows. There will be times when the demand is high for a particular industry and thus salaries may be higher. Then there will be periods when an industry falls out of favor, jobs will be hard to come by and salaries may go down. It happens in every industry. Make broad generalized statements that all engineers are underpaid b/c we aren't all pulling in six figures just b/c we have PE's is asinine.


----------



## rppearso

roadwreck said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though.
> 
> 
> 
> There's your problem. You are focusing on one field of engineering, during a small window of time, with a limited sample size (your one friend that said they made a lot of money then).
> 
> Wake up. Engineers on the whole, were not making 6 figure salaries (or the inflation adjusted equivalent) during this "golden age" you speak of. Every industry ebbs and flows. There will be times when the demand is high for a particular industry and thus salaries may be higher. Then there will be periods when an industry falls out of favor, jobs will be hard to come by and salaries may go down. It happens in every industry. Make broad generalized statements that all engineers are underpaid b/c we aren't all pulling in six figures just b/c we have PE's is asinine.
Click to expand...

Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.


----------



## Dexman PE

I like how you equate paychecks under $100k/year as working for "free." Especially when the average US worker makes $34k/yr.


----------



## Ble_PE

Oh, but rppearso is not average. He did, after all, go to CSM, and he has the grammatical ability of a kid in middle school. He cannot be considered average!

:screwloose:


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## Dexman PE

Ble_PE said:


> Oh, but rppearso is not average. He did, after all, go to CSM, and he has the grammatical ability of a kid in middle school. He cannot be considered average!
> :screwloose:


Hey, don't rag on CSM. Just because he's an idiot doesn't mean all CSM alum are idiots..


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## wilheldp_PE

rppearso said:


> Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.


So, you have anecdotal evidence from one old-timer in your office about guys in one office making a killing off of one huge contract, and that proves that the MAJORITY OF ENGINEERS WITH 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND A PE WERE MAKING $100K +? I'll even give you the adjustment for inflation, and call bullshit on your example. That's like saying that bankers in NYC averaged a $1 million salary during the dot com boom, so current bank tellers at your local branch bank are essentially working for free because they only make $35000.



rppearso said:


> Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.


This is why people don't respect you. Making the average or median salary of people with your credentials for your industry in your region of the country DOES NOT equate to "working for free". You missed the "gravy train"...it left the station, along with the train to Hogwarts, a long time ago (i.e. it never existed).

We have all come to grips with the fact that you are incapable of grasping reality, but please, do not offer any advice to new engineers. You know not of what you speak, and since this is a forum dedicated to giving advice to engineers, it's better if you keep your mouth shut.


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## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not that they were making 100k per say but if you adjust for inflation etc they were, I can ask the co worked that did the calcs but I suspect that you dont care about facts so much as you just want to flame me, if you are genuinly interested in why I feel we are all being ripped off I can ask him. There was a golden age, it was called the trans alaska pipeline gravy train days and there was the metaphorical money bins you speak of, no more today though. All the major industries where the money tap was open full bore (also the missle defense and star wars projects, as well as numerous other projects) are all dried up, I talk to alot of older engineers and they made alot of money in the golden age. At this point I will be happy just to pay off my 1200 sq ft condo so I dont have to move back in with my parents if I am laid off so I dont feel like an indentured servant to the company because im working for scraps.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you have anecdotal evidence from one old-timer in your office about guys in one office making a killing off of one huge contract, and that proves that the MAJORITY OF ENGINEERS WITH 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND A PE WERE MAKING $100K +? I'll even give you the adjustment for inflation, and call bullshit on your example. That's like saying that bankers in NYC averaged a $1 million salary during the dot com boom, so current bank tellers at your local branch bank are essentially working for free because they only make $35000.
> 
> 
> 
> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is why people don't respect you. Making the average or median salary of people with your credentials for your industry in your region of the country DOES NOT equate to "working for free". You missed the "gravy train"...it left the station, along with the train to Hogwarts, a long time ago (i.e. it never existed).
> 
> We have all come to grips with the fact that you are incapable of grasping reality, but please, do not offer any advice to new engineers. You know not of what you speak, and since this is a forum dedicated to giving advice to engineers, it's better if you keep your mouth shut.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to print off that black water motivational poster that someone on here posted (im sorry, I cant hear you over the sound of how awesome I am), how you think will dictate what goes down in your life. If you dont settle or take crap from anyone you will get alot farther than if your like "yes master I will do what ever you say and take on liabilities for "free"", when you refer to sub par wages as "free" it motivates you to go further work harder, find the angles, create the net works to get where you want to be...and a little luck. Do you think the US fought off the british by sitting around drinking tea and saying oh the british are people too, no way.


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## Dexman PE

Mike in Gastonia said:


> OK, it's become obvious that mister rppearso isn't going to quit arguing and is getting under everyone's skin. He apparently gets his jollies going from message board to message board trying to see how many people he can tick off before he gets banned. I suggest we just don't respond to him. Everyone knows someone like this guy. You're never going to convince him or change his mind, so don't engage him.....


Repost


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## rppearso

Dexman PE said:


> Mike in Gastonia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, it's become obvious that mister rppearso isn't going to quit arguing and is getting under everyone's skin. He apparently gets his jollies going from message board to message board trying to see how many people he can tick off before he gets banned. I suggest we just don't respond to him. Everyone knows someone like this guy. You're never going to convince him or change his mind, so don't engage him.....
> 
> 
> 
> Repost
Click to expand...

And if you dont know someone like me you do now and you ahve been missing out all this time in your life. I am a valid PE and engineer though.


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## wilheldp_PE

It's now blatantly obvious that he is a troll. The ban hammer needs to be activated.


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## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> It's now blatantly obvious that he is a troll. The ban hammer needs to be activated.


Yea, bring the kill joy so you can talk about the weather, its not any skin off my back if i get banned, so "BRING THE HAMMER" LOL, I have to question if some of you are even adults on here. That avatar is pretty fitting, grossly inflamitory for anyone who might be Jewish but it fits your personality lol. Sig hiel "bring the hammer", lol you crack me up. To bad the scrolling banner is down as my name was up there so im just as entitled to be here as you are, so I like to complain so what there is even a complaining thread on here that you all participate in so that would make you a hypocrite.


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## Dexman PE

rppearso said:


> To bad the scrolling banner is down as my name was up there so im just as entitled to be here as you are, so I like to complain so what there is even a complaining thread on here that you all participate in so that would make you a hypocrite.


Entitled? Where the hell do you get the idea you are entitled to ANYTHING on here? This is an open forum, yes, but by no means does anyone here have to let you stay.


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## wilheldp_PE

Troll.

:deadhorse:


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## rppearso

Dexman PE said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> 
> To bad the scrolling banner is down as my name was up there so im just as entitled to be here as you are, so I like to complain so what there is even a complaining thread on here that you all participate in so that would make you a hypocrite.
> 
> 
> 
> Entitled? Where the hell do you get the idea you are entitled to ANYTHING on here? This is an open forum, yes, but by no means does anyone here have to let you stay.
Click to expand...

Just like no one has to let someone stay that has an inflamatory nazi look alike avatar. It goes both ways the determining factor is who is a drinking buddy with the site owner. We will see what happens.


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## rppearso

wilheldp_PE said:


> Troll.
> :deadhorse:


Are you upset booo hooo hooo lol. Seriously this could have been a really fun complaining discussion but you chose to take it/make it personal and get all bent out of shape over it. You probably need a BJ or a hour long table massage.


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## benbo

rppearso said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Troll.
> :deadhorse:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you upset booo hooo hooo lol. Seriously this could have been a really fun complaining discussion but you chose to take it/make it personal and get all bent out of shape over it. You probably need a BJ or a hour long table massage.
Click to expand...

Are you propositioning wil? I think you're on the wrong site. It sounds like money isn't the only "fatty" thing you're in the market for.


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## wilheldp_PE

Troll.

:deadhorse:


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## Ble_PE

Dexman PE said:


> Ble_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, but rppearso is not average. He did, after all, go to CSM, and he has the grammatical ability of a kid in middle school. He cannot be considered average!
> :screwloose:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don't rag on CSM. Just because he's an idiot doesn't mean all CSM alum are idiots..
Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as ragging on CSM, cause I'm not. I'm just mocking his repeated mentioning of the college he went to, nothing more.


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## Otter

rppearso said:


> Thats probably true, never the less I dont like working for free so im going to go where the money is, if your ok working for free thats fine too.


No, no, no, don't think of it as work. The whole point is just to enjoy yourself.


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## jmbeck

wilheldp_PE said:


> You seem to indicate that there was some "golden age" of engineering where everybody was swimming in silos full of money (a la Scrooge McDuck).


You mean you don't?

As soon as I found out I had passed the PE exam, I placed an order for 12 sets of Pratesi sheets cut into 4" squares to replace my toilet paper. Haven't used anything else since.

Oh, and I also say :banhim: .

People with his grammatical ability are irritating. It's magnified when they make no attempt to correct it and simplify justify their stupidity.


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