# April 2010 test advice needed



## MNEnvEPETstee (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi all,

I'll be taking the test, and just wanted to bounce a few things off everyone. I'm a ChemE that has been doing mostly EnvE work, so this test seemed most appropriate. I've worked for twelve years at a RCRA Part B TSDF. I feel pretty good about wastewater, potable water, haz waste, and HSW. Have some remediation, at least in terms of pump and treat systems. Have done nothing with air. So, here is what I had or have purchased and been studying for references (I spent a lot of time reviewing the posts here):

1. ALL of the PPI stuff, I think you call it the ENVERM or such here. When I looked through the first sample test before any studying, I could do a quarter of it off the bat. Other stuff did not look familiar.

2. The NCEES sample test

3. Practical Design Calculations for GW and Soil - Jeff Kuo

4. Air Pollution Control - Cooper &amp; Alley

5. Wastewater Engineering - Metcalf and Eddy

6. Hazardous Waste Managment - LaGrega

7. Any of the EPA stuff I can find to print out for free

8. NIOSH Pocket Guide, and other stuff like that

9. I will be buying 101 solved problems

I think this is a solid base(?). I have a few concerns:

1. Should I get a book specifically for fate and transport? I see a few on Amazon, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

2. Should I get a book on sampling methods? Again, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

3. OR, should I just suck it up and buy that three-volume Salvato book?

4. Do you think the FE supplied reference handbook (the EnvE section) will be of any use? Can't hurt to have it along?

5. Should I buy the Kaplan books?

6. Do I need to look at ANY of that HVAC crap in the ENVERM?

7. Anything I am missing?

Studying for this is so different than the FE. I only took the FE last April, about thirteen years out of college. Boy was studying for that a shocker when I first cracked the books. I almost gave up right away, but ended up passing the first time.

Thanks.


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## klk (Feb 28, 2010)

Well, Let me see if I can answer some of your questions. I'll first start out by saying that I only took the test once (and passed) so all I know is what I saw on the test I took. Its very possible that even though I didn't see something on the test, someone else may have encountered it.

For your first list, all of those are very good references. I also purchased the PPI sample exams, the 101 solved problems and the NCEES exam. You've probably already read this in other posts, but the NCEES exam is most representative of the actual exam. I had every intention of working problems in the PPI sample exam materials, but ended up running out of time. If you can get through all of those, you'll be in good shape. If you haven't worked the problems in the NCEES exam, you might want to consider "saving" it as a mock exam before the real one. Don't wait too long because you might realize there are some extra things you need to study or reference materials you need to acquire.

I'll also mention that I don't believe you can have too many references. For the ENVR exam, I thought a lot of the exam (40-50%) was made up of qualitative look up questions instead of calculation/quantitative questions. Unless you know a lot of random stuff, the more references you have to look in the better you will be. That said, anything you can borrow from your coworkers or the library, the better. So now I'll address your second list.

1) I don't remember seeing any of this on the exam, but it might have been I just guessed on those problems because I didn't have a good book on this.

2) Same as #1

3) I passed successfully without this, but a lot of people here recommend it, and it sounds like a good book for your professional library.

4) I don't remember using it, but since you took the FE exam recently, it probably wouldn't hurt to have it along just in case you remember where an equation is.

5) Not familiar with the Kaplan books, but I haven't heard of many people here saying it helped them.

6) No

7) I printed off EPA fact sheets that had the specific info on drinking water regulations (for example, a question might ask how many log removals does ____ regulation require for (insert name of pathogen here). Note that since exam questions are often reused, the regulation they ask for may not be the most current one in effect. That's all I'll say on that. Not sure if Salvato has info on water regulations, but if it doesn't, it might be good to have some references that are easy to search through (for example, you don't want to print off the entire CFR as that would be horrible to search through during the exam.

I'm sure others will provide comments also.


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## Dleg (Feb 28, 2010)

Sounds to me like you're mostly in good shape.

*1. Should I get a book specifically for fate and transport? I see a few on Amazon, any recommendations? Can't hurt?*

Not unless you already have one. I think you're in good shape. You'll need some sort of reference on subsurface transport/hydrogeology. Fetter's Applied Hydrogeology is usually the recommended volume. Maybe there are better choices, but a good hydrogeology text would be a good thing to have, considering your field.

*2. Should I get a book on sampling methods? Again, any recommendations? Can't hurt?*

I wish I knew of one - if you try one out, you can report back to all of us and be a Hero.

*3. OR, should I just suck it up and buy that three-volume Salvato book?*

Let's just say that I would like to buy the new 3-volume Salvato, and I've already passed the PE exam. The old one-volume is an excellent reference and I was able to answer several oddball questions on the actual exam from it. If you can find a 5th edition used somewhere, you can get by with it, and it's a great reference at work. If you can afford the new edition, I say what the hell...

*4. Do you think the FE supplied reference handbook (the EnvE section) will be of any use? Can't hurt to have it along?*

No :dunno:

*5. Should I buy the Kaplan books?*

I don't know - I never used them :dunno:

*6. Do I need to look at ANY of that HVAC crap in the ENVERM?*

NO.

*7. Anything I am missing?*

A Hydrogeology text, as mentioned above.

VTEnviro recommends the Environmental Law Handbook. I got it after the exam for an office reference, and it's pretty handy. I'm not sure you really need it, however, with all your other references.

I would also get a copy of the small (2008?) "Emergency Response Guidebook" - it's the Bible for in-the-field responders. Absolutely a must-have, IMO, but you can probably pass the test without it. It's small and free, so why not? (not sure where to get it - I get free ones from work and from the state emergency management office)

At the time I took the exam, the "Ten State Standards" (for wastewater facility and collection system design) was recommended, but I am pretty sure you are covered adequately with M&amp;E and ENVRM. But you can download it for free, so it might be worthwhile. Here is a html version, there are links here in this forum to a pdf version of the latest (2004) edition as well:

http://10statesstandards.com/wastewaterstandards.html

EDIT: here's pdf version:

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/wastewate..._wastewater.pdf


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Mar 1, 2010)

1. ALL of the PPI stuff, I think you call it the ENVERM or such here. When I looked through the first sample test before any studying, I could do a quarter of it off the bat. Other stuff did not look familiar.

That's better than I could do when I first started, and I was 6 months out of grad school. I passed the first time. You're well on your way.

2. The NCEES sample test

I took that one as a trial run under test conditions 2 weeks before the exam. It's the closest you'll get to the real deal.

3. Practical Design Calculations for GW and Soil - Jeff Kuo

I don't recall there being much on soils, but definitely GW.

4. Air Pollution Control - Cooper &amp; Alley

Not the book I used, but you'll want an air quality book and an air pollution control book. Since a lot of the design equations are very empirical, you see a lot of straight plug and chug questions.

5. Wastewater Engineering - Metcalf and Eddy

Not the one I used, but you need a solid WW book for sure.

6. Hazardous Waste Managment - LaGrega

There was a question straight out of this book with different numbers. This is the standard reference for haz wastes.

7. Any of the EPA stuff I can find to print out for free

Whenever I saw something that said, "According to 40 CFR 123.45..." I printed the section right off the federal government website.

8. NIOSH Pocket Guide, and other stuff like that

Didn't use it, didn't need it.

9. I will be buying 101 solved problems

I used this book to gauge my existing knowledge and the content of the test. It guided me toward references I needed and what I needed to study.

I think this is a solid base(?). I have a few concerns:

1. Should I get a book specifically for fate and transport? I see a few on Amazon, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

As noted, Fetter is good. I had an into to Envl Eng book that gave a solid background on mass balance stuff.

2. Should I get a book on sampling methods? Again, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

Didn't need one, can't hurt.

3. OR, should I just suck it up and buy that three-volume Salvato book?

Never heard of it.

4. Do you think the FE supplied reference handbook (the EnvE section) will be of any use? Can't hurt to have it along?

Useless on the PE, though I brought mine anyway.

5. Should I buy the Kaplan books?

I found PPI to be all I needed to pass.

6. Do I need to look at ANY of that HVAC crap in the ENVERM?

No.

7. Anything I am missing?

Like DLeg said, I do like the Envl Law Handbook. It gives the regulatory framework and intent of the laws, as opposed to design books that give technical guidance on complying with them. I thought it was helpful for CWA, CAA, RCRA, CERCLA, etc.

Good luck!


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## dpr2w (Mar 11, 2010)

I just took the OCT '09 PE and passed the first time. I will try to help because everything is still fresh in my head.

1. Should I get a book specifically for fate and transport? I see a few on Amazon, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

I didn't use one.

2. Should I get a book on sampling methods? Again, any recommendations? Can't hurt?

The standard methods book for water/wastewater is a good one to have, but is expensive. Try to check one out from the library.

3. OR, should I just suck it up and buy that three-volume Salvato book?

No experience with this book, but I don't think you need it.

4. Do you think the FE supplied reference handbook (the EnvE section) will be of any use? Can't hurt to have it along?

You can print this out for free by downloading the .pdf on the NCEES website. It's great for quick equation references for EnvE stuff. I also printed out the unit conversions portion as well.

5. Should I buy the Kaplan books? I paid the $120 or whatever it was and just sold it back on Amazon for $90 today. It was worthless and too broad in scope in my opinion.

6. Do I need to look at ANY of that HVAC crap in the ENVERM? YES!!! There were at least 5 questions on the afternoon portion of the October '09 PE that were related to HVAC.

7. Anything I am missing?

Get a good book on environmental law. The Environmental Law Handbook (20th Edition) is the latest and was VERY useful for law-related questions on the test.

Hubao Zhang's text on groundwater covered at least 2 questions on the PE exam verbatim.

The NCEES sample test book (blue cover) had 2 questions that were IDENTICAL to the PE exam I took.

Know how to convert from mass/volume concentrations in air to ppm for AIR. Both the FE and PE exams I took had at least 4 questions on coverting between these units.

Good luck!


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Mar 28, 2010)

Thank you to all of you for the advice. I just realized that my Metcalf &amp; Eddy is the international edition, I wonder if that matters? Everything appears to be in SI units, which is fine with me.

&lt;&lt;Know how to convert from mass/volume concentrations in air to ppm for AIR. Both the FE and PE exams I took had at least 4 questions on coverting between these units.&gt;&gt;

I just realized that I did this wrong on the FE, because I found the correct equations now. The more I study, the more I wonder how I passed the FE.

That big book from PPI is a total cluster fart. They need to trim out the extra crap, and put it in a different book. And reorganize stuff. So many things are covered in two or three different places.

After looking through the HVAC section, I do see some stuff in there that I could see being on the exam.

I seriously don't know what to think of this upcoming exam. None of the material is *difficult*, in the way that I think electrical engineering stuff is difficult. I do not think I could get through an EE degree, the stuff drives me nuts. I just hate the idea I am spending a bunch of time on a problem or concept that won't even show up on the exam.


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## Octave (Apr 1, 2010)

> _I just realized that my Metcalf &amp; Eddy is the international edition, I wonder if that matters?_


I also have M&amp;E's international edition, and when I compared it to the US edition I found them to be the same, except for the paper stock used.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm getting a little nervous. I have the whole week off, so that's good. I am going to do a timed simulated runthrough with the NCEES exam tomorrow. I think my strategy is to do (or attempt to do) every qualitative problem first. That way any I don't know or am not sure about can kind of simmer in the back of my mind as I start doing the quantitative problems. Perhaps I'll be flipping through a book doing one of the quant problems, and come across the answer to one of the qual problems. I have to make sure not to drop any of the no-brainers, like wind roses or such. Or questions that are identical to ones on the sample exam.

The solved problems from Schneiter are starting to bug me, because he does some things slightly differently than Lindberg. He used 15kg as the mass of a child for CDI calcs, and got me totally lost on the UFs he used for calculating RfD. And he has some stuff in there that I simply cannot find in any of my references.

I wish I knew the rough cutoff to pass. At least with the FE, I was pretty sure that getting half of them would be a passing score.

I am very surprised that more people do not post here. Really the only discussions boards are this one, and the worthless PPI board, right?

Can't decide if I should study more tonight, or play DAO: Awakening.


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## Dleg (Apr 11, 2010)

Don't get hung up on where Schneiter got his constants. I got worried about that too, but on the actual exam you usually won't need to make those calls. NCEES probably figured that answers would be too variable if the examinee was required to come up with their own constants from references, so in most cases, the constants are given in the problem statement.

Personally, I avoided any kind of strategy that would make me go through the exam more than once. Time is the big factor - you'll find out when you run through your simulated exam. Maybe your scheme will work for you. But for me, I just ended up running through the questions in order, making an attempt, and giving up if I wasn't getting anywhere. Once I had gone through all the questions, then I went back....

My advice would be to NOT focus only on qualitative questions first, or only quantitative for that matter - you could very well end up spending too much time on them, and then discover you dont' have enough time for the other type of problems.

I hate to sound like a hardass, but for your last week of studying I would recommend some reading (yes, in your references), instead of videogames, as a "relaxing" thing. Your best chances lie in living, eating, and breathing this stuff.


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## Dleg (Apr 11, 2010)

Don't get hung up on where Schneiter got his constants. I got worried about that too, but on the actual exam you usually won't need to make those calls. NCEES probably figured that answers would be too variable if the examinee was required to come up with their own constants from references, so in most cases, the constants are given in the problem statement.

Personally, I avoided any kind of strategy that would make me go through the exam more than once. Time is the big factor - you'll find out when you run through your simulated exam. Maybe your scheme will work for you. But for me, I just ended up running through the questions in order, making an attempt, and giving up if I wasn't getting anywhere. Once I had gone through all the questions, then I went back....

My advice would be to NOT focus only on qualitative questions first, or only quantitative for that matter - you could very well end up spending too much time on them, and then discover you dont' have enough time for the other type of problems.

I hate to sound like a hardass, but for your last week of studying I would recommend some reading (yes, in your references), instead of videogames, as a "relaxing" thing. Your best chances lie in living, eating, and breathing this stuff. Discipline!


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 11, 2010)

I just bored an ogre to death with my RCRA regs, +4 vs. darkspawn.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 12, 2010)

OK, so on my never-peeked-beforehand-honest-to-goodness runthrough, I got 63. I don't know if I need a raw 70 to pass, I'm thinking the cutoff is likely around my score (must know half, and get the other 25% like the monkey would). I got some right by pure luck, of course. I left about 10 points on the table in problems that I knew I needed a little more polish (some of them I just didn't start). I kind of disagreed with a couple. A few I could never get in a million years. They were just "WTF?" questions.

I really hate all of the extra info in some of the problems. And like everyone mentions, some I had to read a few times before I figured out for what was being asked.

So I'll focus on the ones I know I need some work (like the well draw-down questions), and I think I'll get there. I hope.


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## Paul S (Apr 12, 2010)

Good Luck!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 13, 2010)

> I left about 10 points on the table in problems that I knew I needed a little more *polish* (


I got some kielbasa for you if you want.



> I got 63


I got in the mid-50s on my simulated runthrough of the NCEES sample exam. I passed on the first try. I thought it was much worse than the real exam.



> I really hate all of the extra info in some of the problems.


True, but when was the last time you got a project at work where everything was spelled out with nothing extraneous?


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 19, 2010)

So, it was pretty interesting. I left the morning session feeling just ok (kind of like I was leading by a field goal), and knowing I needed to do well also in the afternoon. The afternoon was awesome. I ended up leaving 45 minutes early. Some problems/questions were so fall-off-a-log easy that I had to read them several times just to make sure I wasn't missing something. A couple I had to guess on. Quite a few problems/questions were nothing I could have really studied for. I'm feeling 95% that I passed.


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## Dleg (Apr 19, 2010)

That's a great sign! Now, be prepared to second guess yourself and start feeling less and less confident over the next two-three months while you wait for the results... But if that's how you felt leaving the exam, you probably passed.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 19, 2010)

Dleg said:


> That's a great sign! Now, be prepared to second guess yourself and start feeling less and less confident over the next two-three months while you wait for the results... But if that's how you felt leaving the exam, you probably passed.


I realized it was rude not to thank all of you for your advice, so thank you very much to all of you.

I would say there are three or so questions I am bouncing around in my head. And they aren't even things I can really look up. I've got some other stuff to focus on for the next few months, so I think it won't drive me too nuts. I actually feel like I got 70+ problems correct outright. Now if I did miss a few of those, I am sure that some of the others that I will get right by odds will fill in for those.

Anyone here also a CHMM? I am wondering if there is any point in doing that also. Or there is some other environmental thing that I can't remember right now. CEP?


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## Dleg (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know what a CHMM or a CEP is, but right after I finished the exam and got my license, I thought about pursuing a graduate degree. I wish i would have gone ahead and done that, because I would have it by now!!! I say if you're going to pursue anything additional while you're "in the mood", go for a graduate degree if you don't have one already.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 20, 2010)

> Some problems/questions were so fall-off-a-log easy that I had to read them several times just to make sure I wasn't missing something.


It also means you are well prepared. They do throw some low hanging fruit in there, and like a typical engineer, you tend to overthink it.



> Now, be prepared to second guess yourself and start feeling less and less confident over the next two-three months


I walked out of there feeling like I nailed it. by mid-May I was convinced I was doomed.


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## rskenviro (Apr 20, 2010)

This is my first post. I was always a reader here. I took the exam last friday. I thought I did okay. But now I am nervous after reading what others thought. I prepared really well and i dont know how to prepare if I have to do next time. There were many theory questions and too close answers. I skipped economics from my study. shouldn't have done that.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 20, 2010)

rskenviro said:


> This is my first post. I was always a reader here. I took the exam last friday. I thought I did okay. But now I am nervous after reading what others thought. I prepared really well and i dont know how to prepare if I have to do next time. There were many theory questions and too close answers. I skipped economics from my study. shouldn't have done that.


For most econ-related problems, you really don't need to worry much about the econ part (unless you are comparing two complicated options). For me, this was very true of the ones on the exam. For the most part, I just do problems ignoring the interest rate first, and then I look at the available answers. In all of these cases, the answer jumped right out at me. You just need a general "feel" for what the interest rate is going to do to it.

You are right about the theory questions. My work experience helped me through many of those. I can think of ten or a dozen in particular. For all of them, I don't know if any amount of studying would do you any good. If by some chance I failed, I can think of one or two more references I would try to find, but I don't know what else I would study.

I did less "reverse engineering" of answers than I did on the FE. I did a lot of that on the FE.

I left the test wondering if the questions really make one minimally qualified to be an engineer. In some ways, it is just a test of how good you are at taking tests. Eliminating answers, reverse engineering from the given answers, etc.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 20, 2010)

And a bit of advice for those future takers. I tried not to eat all day (I did have a couple apple slices and crackers at lunch) because I was afraid of wasting precious time during the exam running out to take a dump. Big mistake. I thought for awhile I was going to pass out in the afternoon. If the afternoon part had been harder for me, I might have been in trouble. So, don't eat two Chipotle burritos the night before, but make sure you eat something.


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## klk (Apr 20, 2010)

MNEnvEPETstee said:


> I left the test wondering if the questions really make one minimally qualified to be an engineer. In some ways, it is just a test of how good you are at taking tests. Eliminating answers, reverse engineering from the given answers, etc.


I felt the same way - you could have a qualified engineer fail the test because they are horrible at taking tests, or you could have an unqualified engineer pass the test because they are a good test taker. I think the more important aspect of licensure is the references and work experience.

On the environmental exam especially, I felt it really tested us on how well we could use an index . . .


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## Dleg (Apr 21, 2010)

I guess you guys are right to some extent. But the overall exercize of studying up on everything and getting your reference library up to snuff, is really an excellent thing to do just prior to receiving a license to do it for a living.... especially mid-career. I'm definitely better for the experience.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Apr 24, 2010)

Aw hell. Now the doubt is setting in. I just remembered one question that was really easy to google, and I *think* I got it right. But what if I read the problem or the answers incorrectly? Or didn't pick the answer I think I picked?

And on another one that seemed too easy... Were they asking for the "minimum" answer, or the "approximately" answer? Damn damn damn.

Gonna be a long two months.

I realized that I have done no networking. So I just joined our state society of professional engineers. I'm looking forward to meeting some new engineers. I'm hoping it is more exciting than a coin club meeting. At the very least, most of the people should smell better.


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## jth14450 (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey,

I just started looking into the exam requirements and was wondering if anyone out there had exam materials they would like to sell or any advice for people who are still full fulling their experience requirement. I won't be sitting until October 2011, but since my current job is more project management than engineering I wanted to stay sharp.

Any advice or help from those of you who just took the exam would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Josh



MNEnvEPETstee said:


> Aw hell. Now the doubt is setting in. I just remembered one question that was really easy to google, and I *think* I got it right. But what if I read the problem or the answers incorrectly? Or didn't pick the answer I think I picked?
> And on another one that seemed too easy... Were they asking for the "minimum" answer, or the "approximately" answer? Damn damn damn.
> 
> Gonna be a long two months.
> ...


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## MNEnvEPETstee (May 1, 2010)

If I passed the test, I'll gave you what advice I can. Check back here around July 4th.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (May 1, 2010)

Double post.


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## MNEnvEPETstee (Jun 9, 2010)

Passed!

I'd like to thank all of you for your help. I wish I knew by how much I passed. Glad I don't have to retake, because frankly I'm not sure what else I could have done to prepare.


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## SecondWind (Jun 10, 2010)

Way to go MNEnvPE!

Can you tell us what references you found most useful and what (if any) you wish you had for the exam.

Also - did you take any review courses (i.e, NC State or U of Delaware).

Any other tips would be great for us testing in Oct.


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