# Recycling



## Capt Worley PE (Nov 15, 2010)

I have long suspected recycing was a money losing proposition, but I never thought it was this big. In n article in the local paper, Free Times, http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=19...241011100974972 I found this nugget of info about Columbia's recycling program:



> “Recycling *costs us $1 million a year*,” he says. “We *sell the recyclables for $80,000 a year*. But do the residents of the city want to give up recycling?”


Note that this pertains directly to the city of Columbia, SC, I would bet that it is proportionately costly for other areas of the country.

Now, I think recycling is a noble goal and all, but I don't think that it is worth this kind of expense, especially in these tough budgetary times. I would like to see such programs dropped.

Comments?


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## snickerd3 (Nov 15, 2010)

depends on how big your local landfill is and how close to being full it is.


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## picusld (Nov 15, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I have long suspected recycing was a money losing proposition, but I never thought it was this big. In n article in the local paper, Free Times, http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=19...241011100974972 I found this nugget of info about Columbia's recycling program:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My trash and recycle are private. costs about $100 every three months i think.

The only way that it can work is if taxes go down as a result...but they never do.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 15, 2010)

we have to take our recycling to a drop off, there is one in town so it isn't too bad. But we recycle as much as we can, we have two garbage cans in the kitchen. We average a single bag of trash each week, everything else is recycled, which we drop off about once a month. Mr snick may a recycling run this weekend, took two trips. They spread the recycling across the different waste haulers in the county. One company has to deal with the paper, another the plastic, I think the city takes the aluminum cans because the drop container for them is through a hole in the wall into their locked portion of the building. It didn't used to be.


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## bigray76 (Nov 15, 2010)

We have curbside recycling... which goes to the landfill via a separate hauler. Town handles contracting the recycling pick up (every two weeks); we have private garbage haulers... they all suck.


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## Slugger926 (Nov 15, 2010)

I am in a Sustainability Enterprises class this semester. It is an eye opener. It interesting that recycled paper is not as "green" as virgin paper. 95% of all green activities is hype.

I would recommend reading the book, "Cradle to Cradle".


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## Bean PE (Nov 15, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> I have long suspected recycing was a money losing proposition, but I never thought it was this big. In n article in the local paper, Free Times, http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=19...241011100974972 I found this nugget of info about Columbia's recycling program:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What would the cost be to send all the recyclables to a landfill?


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## bigray76 (Nov 15, 2010)

Slugger926 said:


> I am in a Sustainability Enterprises class this semester. It is an eye opener. It interesting that recycled paper is not as "green" as virgin paper. 95% of all green activities is hype.
> I would recommend reading the book, "Cradle to Cradle".


Green is big business, thank's Al Gore.

I applied to be on my township's 'Green Team' - I was later asked to not participate since I was 'too practically sustainable'. (Only PE and LEED AP in the group). Simply my views are to reduce our dependency on foreign oil... however makes sense (but starting with conservation and being responsible - turn off the lights when not in use, etc.). I am a firm believer in nuclear power (look at how the French have done with it) and exploring reasonable (and comparable in production costs) means of energy production.

I should have seen the writing on the wall when I was interviewed along with another candidate who thought that curbing your dog would reduce pollution - amazingly, we both got selected... go figure.


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 15, 2010)

I say take it all to a landfill and burn it to produce energy. They already suck the methane out from under some landfills and burn that for energy.


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## MA_PE (Nov 15, 2010)

It was always my understanding that recycling was never intended to be a cost saver, and certainly not a money maker, it is intended to reduce the amount of material that goes to the landfill while relieving some of the burden on the natural resources sonsumed to make the products. Personally, I think it's a PITA.

Also, I like to see the support for that political statement in the article. I don't believe it factors in the cost to collect and dispose of the material that is collected with the recylcing effort should the recycling progtram just be cancelled. I don't beleieve that it's a 10:1 loss ratio, butr I believe the net answer is still it would be cheaper without the recycling.

The focus on that article seems to be privatizing city services. I believ that it would be a cost savings to the city, but it increases city dependencies on other contractors that they don't have a control over. It would be a good way to cut off the life-long gravy train for city workers and when the current generation concludes their life long benefits the city could rebuild without the built-in in life long commitment for health insurance, pensions, etc. that is currently over burdening the country as we speak.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 15, 2010)

no city garbage collectors here. We had to hire private company.

But landfill capacity is a huge driver for recycling.


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## Supe (Nov 15, 2010)

I recycle. I turn spam mail, old bills, and cardboard containers into brand new smoke and flames in the middle of the backyard.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 15, 2010)

So your backyard looks like your welder, huh, Supe?


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## Ble_PE (Nov 15, 2010)

I recycle beer to piss at a 1:2 ratio it seems...


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## Supe (Nov 15, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> So your backyard looks like your welder, huh, Supe?



Pretty much! Only they fixed my welder (allegedly, I pick it up tomorrow). Otherwise, that will be a recycled paperweight while I'm at it.


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## FLBuff PE (Nov 15, 2010)

Does this count as recycling?


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## Supe (Nov 15, 2010)

I don't see how it couldn't.


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## bigray76 (Nov 15, 2010)

Ble_PE said:


> I recycle beer to piss at a 1:2 ratio it seems...


Conservation... "if it's yellow, let it mellow... if it's brown flush it down!"


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 15, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> Does this count as recycling?


More like advanced tertiary treatment... :mf_followthroughfart:


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## MA_PE (Nov 15, 2010)

bigray76 said:


> Ble_PE said:
> 
> 
> > I recycle beer to piss at a 1:2 ratio it seems...
> ...


Ahh. the credo of campgrounds everywhere. Didn't we have a Destroilet discussion here before?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 15, 2010)

What if your campground only has an outhouse...is it then just 'let it ferment'?


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## bigray76 (Nov 15, 2010)

Bring the lysol.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 15, 2010)

^Makes the campfire more exciting!


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## Dleg (Nov 15, 2010)

MA_PE said it best. It's not about making money, it's about saving landfill capacity and conservation of materials. Any article or discussion that fails to factor in the costs associated with landfilling and the production of new raw materials, as well as the intangibles, is not a balanced view at all.


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## Sschell (Nov 16, 2010)

^for me it’s about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....

My wife and I have noticed that we seem to produce a disproportionate amount of trash. The two of us, with our one dog, consistently produce the most trash on the block, even though there are families of 4 or 5 with dogs in our area... I don't know how we do it. we must be especially trashy!


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## snickerd3 (Nov 16, 2010)

sschell_PE said:


> ^for me it's about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....
> 
> My wife and I have noticed that we seem to produce a disproportionate amount of trash. The two of us, with our one dog, consistently produce the most trash on the block, even though there are families of 4 or 5 with dogs in our area... I don't know how we do it. we must be especially trashy!


maybe you buy more premade convience type stuff and your neighboors make from scratch?


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## roadwreck (Nov 16, 2010)

sschell_PE said:


> ^for me it's about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....
> 
> My wife and I have noticed that we seem to produce a disproportionate amount of trash. The two of us, with our one dog, consistently produce the most trash on the block, even though there are families of 4 or 5 with dogs in our area... I don't know how we do it. we must be especially trashy!



My wife and I are the exact opposite. In one week we typically won't even fill up a standard kitchen trash bag. Our neighbors on the other hand typically have garbage overflowing their 50 gallon trash bins on trash pick up day. I think the amount of preprocessed/prepared food is a big part of that. My wife and I eat very little that we don't prepare ourselves. My wifes sister on the other hand only eats items that are prepared and can be microwaved and ready in 2 minutes (her freezer contains more bagel bites then you would find at the grocery store). Those items typically come with a lot of packaging and thusly produce a lot of trash. She has to empty her trash daily, and she is only one person.

Not saying that is why you fill up your trash can, but it is something to consider.


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## MA_PE (Nov 16, 2010)

sschell_PE said:


> ^for me it’s about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....


sounds like you need a big can. More junk in the trunk.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 16, 2010)

MA_PE said:


> sschell_PE said:
> 
> 
> > ^for me it's about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....
> ...


or a trash compactor


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## FusionWhite (Nov 16, 2010)

My wife and I fall squarely into the low trash output. We have two of the large (90 gallon maybe?) trash cans and we only have to put out one every other week.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 16, 2010)

We generally put two 33 gallon bags in the herbie curby and a recycles box full of plastic water bottles.


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## Sschell (Nov 16, 2010)

roadwreck said:


> sschell_PE said:
> 
> 
> > ^for me it's about trashcan capacity conservation. If I did not separate out my recyclables, there is no way all my trash would fit in that one can.....
> ...



beer bottles take up alot of space...?

you are correct, the from-scratch-cooking is done about once or twice weekly at our house. Lastnight was pesto from home grown basil.... mmmmmmmmmmm......


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## Ble_PE (Nov 16, 2010)

We typically fill our 50 gallon street bin about 1/4-1/3 full for a typical week. We only use plastic grocery bags for trash bags and we typically fill up a bag every 2 days. We also usually fill up a 13 gallon trash bag with recyclables although it could be more than one depending on how much beer I decide to drink over the w/e!


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## snickerd3 (Nov 16, 2010)

Ble_PE said:


> We typically fill our 50 gallon street bin about 1/4-1/3 full for a typical week. We only use plastic grocery bags for trash bags and we typically fill up a bag every 2 days. We also usually fill up a 13 gallon trash bag with recyclables although it could be more than one depending on how much beer I decide to drink over the w/e!


what about the diapers?


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## Ble_PE (Nov 16, 2010)

snickerd3 said:


> Ble_PE said:
> 
> 
> > We typically fill our 50 gallon street bin about 1/4-1/3 full for a typical week. We only use plastic grocery bags for trash bags and we typically fill up a bag every 2 days. We also usually fill up a 13 gallon trash bag with recyclables although it could be more than one depending on how much beer I decide to drink over the w/e!
> ...


Those go in the diaper genie and that gets emptied once a week. Some of the diapers that aren't stinky are sometimes thrown out in the regular trash bags if I don't want to go downstairs to put it in the genie.


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## FusionWhite (Nov 16, 2010)

Back to the recycling issue, one factor that needs to be taken into account is the energy that is saved by using recyclables (specifically aluminum, steel and glass).

Production of aluminum consumes extremely large quantities of electricity (20-40% of the cost of aluminum comes from the electricity cost to produce it). Recycled aluminum however simply has to be melted down and recast.

One ton of virgin steel requires 1.25 tons of iron ore, half a ton of coal and several rounds of slagging and alloying ingredients thrown in. Recycled steel (melted down in an EAF and recast) requires a fraction of the energy (mostly electricity for powering the furnaces) and one round of alloying to produce most common grades of steel.


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