# Undergrad School



## GDIklz (Jan 20, 2011)

Does it matter what university you obtain your B.S. in engineering from? How large of an impact does the school you attended have in the real engineering world when applying for jobs?

I am considering a small private university in Arkansas, as well as a well-known public university in California. The public university (Cal Poly SLO) has a good reputation for its engineering program, and the private university (John Brown University) isn't nationally recognized. My question is does it matter which university I attend? Will it make any difference in the long run?

Thanks!


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## Dleg (Jan 21, 2011)

It "can" make a difference. First and foremost, make sure the degree program is ABET accredited. If it is not, you are wasting your time - your degree won't be recognized as an engineering degree by just about everyone.

Other than that, the quality of education can vary dramatically across schools. A big, well-known and well-funded engineering program will likely have more and better equipment and "maybe" better teachers. But most ABET accredited programs are going to be just fine, and the real differences will come down to individuals, as always. You will only get out of it, what you put into it.

I went to a basic state school and it had adequate facilities and teachers, and I feel I received an excellent education. I know for a fact that I can hold my own against folks with degrees from much more prestigious schools. That said, the prestigious degree WILL get your foot in the door a lot easier than one from a lesser known school, both in terms of employment and graduate school. In other words, I may be a better engineer than some academic from MIT, but Mr. (or Ms.) MIT will most likely be called for an interview before I am.

If you can afford it, I say go for Cal Poly.


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## AyanHein (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm going to Cal Poly Pomona. We have an excellent engineering program. Needless to say, we call know that Cal Poly SLO is better than pomona, so you won't go wrong with SLO. Even it's undergrad, it matters which school you came from.


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## picusld (Jan 21, 2011)

agreed with what was said above. A great equalizer is also passing the FE if you happen to go to a lesser known school like I did. I had 4 offers before I graduated.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 21, 2011)

IMO, it only matters in getting that first job. After that, where you got your degree is pretty much irrelevant, generally speaking.


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## roadwreck (Jan 21, 2011)

If you are going to become a licensed engineer the ABET accreditation is a must. After that I think the most important thing is to find a school where you are comfortable and where you feel what you learn there will have some value once you get out of school (i.e. you will be marketable in the workforce). Finding a school you can afford is important really important. Going out of state to a top tier school can have it's advantages, but if you are paying off student loans for the rest of your life it may not be worth it.

I do think that graduating from a school with a well know reputation will open more doors for your first job, but after that it becomes less important.


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## benbo (Jan 21, 2011)

I think it helps for the first job.

There are a handful of schools that have nationwide recognition and will get your foot in the door most anywhere - MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Cal, RPI, UIUC, etc. Cal Poly SLO sort of falls into that category these days.

After that, it becomes sort of regional. Everyone in California knows most UCs and many Cal States have reasonable engineering programs, so if you stay local you'll get interviews at least (provided you meet the company's other requirements such as GPA or prior internships for some companies). But it is less likely anybody in Rhode Island will know anything about your school if you went to Cal State Fullerton.

In my LA office for example, the schools represented are Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Cal Poly SLO, Cal Poly Pomona, Cal State LA, and Cal State Long Beach.


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## MA_PE (Jan 21, 2011)

It's not irrelevant but it's also not a major issue. Undergrad is the fundamanetal engineering courses and as long as the program is ABET accredited and you do well then the fundamentals will be taught. Grad school is where the specialization and cutting edge research is done. The more prestegious the school the more likely their graduate program is doing quality and relevant research. Experience with that research and the industry academic leaders in grad school is much more important than undergrad. My 0.02.


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## StaciaZ (Jan 21, 2011)

Here's a link where you can check to see if a school's program is ABET accredited.

http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/Ac...tionSearch.aspx


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## ALBin517 (Jan 21, 2011)

Also, you never know when you might decide to try grad school. In which case, an easier undergrad program that inflates your GPA might be the way to go.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 21, 2011)

I went to a regional private college known as having a strong engineering school. The college as a whole ranks in the top 20 or so every year for northest regional schools.

It helped me get my first job because I stayed local for a few years after graduation. When I went looking out of state later on, my experience was more what they were after, but the fact that I went to a reputable school with an ABET engineering program definitely bolstered my resume, despite the fact they didn't have the familiarity with the school.

I'm married to an academic, and if you go that route, name brand matters big time.


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## cableguy (Jan 21, 2011)

Around the place I work, I can't name any engineer that doesn't have a degree from a "major" university. Texas A&amp;M, Texas Tech, University of Texas, University of Houston, Baylor... If I were a hiring manager, evaluating candidates from 2 different colleges - one I'd heard of, and one I'd never heard of - and their employment experience was similar, personalities were similar, etc... I'd probably opt for the "more well known" school candidate. Well, that's how they seem to roll around here anyway...


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## ALBin517 (Jan 21, 2011)

cableguy said:


> Around the place I work, I can't name any engineer that doesn't have a degree from a "major" university. Texas A&amp;M, Texas Tech, University of Texas, University of Houston, Baylor... If I were a hiring manager, evaluating candidates from 2 different colleges - one I'd heard of, and one I'd never heard of - and their employment experience was similar, personalities were similar, etc... I'd probably opt for the "more well known" school candidate. Well, that's how they seem to roll around here anyway...


I might have got my two jobs in Michigan, in part, because of the name recognition of Florida State. It's ironic because the FSU engineering degree compares poorly to many schools with less recognizable names.


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## ironman (Jan 21, 2011)

I went to a really good school and I dont feel it made much of a difference other than in your student loan ballance. I had just as hard a time as anyone else finding a job out of school PLUS I had the debt. That student loan debt is the difference between night and day, if you dont have it you can just fix up your old car and live at home and look for work without any pressure to take jobs you really dont want.

One thing I did notice is the difficulty level of your school (how "good" it is) will take the focus off of your GPA if its not so hot. for instance if you graduated from MIT with a 2.5 no one is going to care. If you went to a lesser known school you will need to have a higher GPA. Keep in mind though all the GPA and ranking of your school only matters for your first job, once you have 3-4 years under your belt no one will care about any of it, of course getting that first job can be a major hurtle so people look for any edge they can get, but its not worth getting that edge if its going to put significant financail pressure on you to do things you dont want to do.

If the economy is in the crapper, nothing is going to matter and thats when your going to want 0 debt so you can hang out at home and ride it out.

So in conclusion, if you can get the name brand without a heap of loan debt then go for it but if you have to take out more than 5 or 10k in loans go to a state school or something in state because its not worth it.


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## GDIklz (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks for your input everyone.

So what if you go to a school on the east coast but you plan to live on the west coast after graduation. Will employers frown upon schools from other states that they've never heard of?

Also, when speaking of grad school, do the big name universities take serious consideration into where you received your undergrad? If you go to a no-name school for undergrad, can you make it into top grad schools?

Thanks!


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## GDIklz (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks for the link StaciaZ.

I looked under John Brown University, and it's accredited for general engineering, but not mechanical engineering specifically, whereas Cal Poly SLO is. Does this matter?


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## navyasw02 (Jan 21, 2011)

GDIklz said:


> Thanks for the link StaciaZ.
> I looked under John Brown University, and it's accredited for general engineering, but not mechanical engineering specifically, whereas Cal Poly SLO is. Does this matter?


I think it does, but dont quote me. I'd go for a school that's accredited for the program you want to do.


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## willsee (Jan 21, 2011)

Yes you need to get an accredited degree.


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## GDIklz (Jan 21, 2011)

So because only the "General Engineering" program is accredited at John Brown and the specific "Mechanical Engineering" program isn't by name accredited, if I went there and studied Mechanical Engineering, it wouldn't be considered accredited, even though they have "general engineering" accreditation?


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## navyasw02 (Jan 21, 2011)

GDIklz said:


> So because only the "General Engineering" program is accredited at John Brown and the specific "Mechanical Engineering" program isn't by name accredited, if I went there and studied Mechanical Engineering, it wouldn't be considered accredited, even though they have "general engineering" accreditation?


Yes I believe Mechanical Engineering is not ABET accredited. Try the next school on the list, Johns Hopkins, and you'll see how they break out each engineering discipline into its own ABET accreditation.


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## Dleg (Jan 21, 2011)

You need to be absolutely certain that your specific degree is ABET accredited, I would think. I don't know if "general engineering" accreditation means that the specific degrees are all covered, but I kind of doubt it; as navyasw said, other schools have specific degrees that are accredited, so you will want to same, I am sure.

Getting a non-ABET degree is a huge handicap. You will have to fight to gain recognition of that degree for licensing, and also for many types of jobs (government jobs, especially, require ABETdegrees, otherwise you ahve t jump through hoops to prove you have an engineering degree)


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## cydcarter (Jan 25, 2011)

There is a lot of great advice in this thread. I just wanted to reinforce some of it.

Make sure it's ABET accredited. That only matters if you want to be a licensed engineer. And this early in your 'career', you should keep that door wide open no matter what you plan to do with your life if you are looking at engineering in general.

The school name only matters depending on who is hiring. We had an architecture section leader hire everyone in his dept from the school he graduated from. It was not a 'prestigious' school by any definition of the word, but that's who he was loyal too. Our mechanical dept has hired everyone from GT, USF, Duke, Penn State, etc. Even a really small, community college in Alabama (he was a PE already though).

My experience says that 9/10 times, the farther you are into your career and away from your degree, the less the alma mater matters. Work experience and recommendations will trump your degree almost everytime. The exceptions are those really presitigious schools that just have that branding on them or a hiring manager that has a soft spot for certain schools.

I wish you well, but as long as you get an ABET accredited degree, and you put in all the effort to do well in school and get your certifications early and often (FE, PE, maybe some other area-specific certifications like LEED or EDAC or whatever) you will be fine.


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## CbusPaul (Jan 25, 2011)

Let me add to this with one piece of advice, don't listen to a word that Ironman says.


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## roadwreck (Jan 25, 2011)

CbusPaul said:


> Let me add to this with one piece of advice, don't listen to a word that Ironman says.


that is sound advice.

lusone:


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 25, 2011)

Well, he isn't making fatty money, yet, either.


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## ALBin517 (Jan 26, 2011)

GDIklz said:


> Also, when speaking of grad school, do the big name universities take serious consideration into where you received your undergrad? If you go to a no-name school for undergrad, can you make it into top grad schools?
> Thanks!



It depends on the grad program. For example, law schools go almost exclusively by undergrad GPA and LSAT score. The applicant's undergrad school and course of study has almost no effect on law school admission, as long as it is accredited.

Some people also get into a "Catch 22" with grad school in that they are better-prepared for grad school if they take tougher undergrad classes. But if the tougher classes hurt their GPA, they might not get into the grad program they want anyway.

I mainly mentioned the grad school thing earlier in the thread because you never know. I went to school with a girl who had kind of coasted to a 3.5 GPA through her freshman year. That was a very good GPA... until she decided she wanted to make a run at med school. Then she had ground to make up because she had not got all As in the easy classes. So what I was trying to say was that carrying a 3.5 and having fun might be acceptable, or you might be burning bridges.


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## ironman (Jan 27, 2011)

The back door into grad school is enrolling in 600 level classes as a non degree seeking student and then applying on the basis of your grades in thoes classes. I dont know if this works for med school or law school but it will work for an engineering masters.


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## navyasw02 (Jan 27, 2011)

ironman said:


> The back door into grad school is enrolling in 600 level classes as a non degree seeking student and then applying on the basis of your grades in thoes classes. I dont know if this works for med school or law school but it will work for an engineering masters.


And you have to do well at the courses and still meet admissions requirements and they have to accept you. It's not like you can take this path and say "Ha haaaa I fooled you admissions folks." If you're still a sub par candidate they're not going to lower their standards and there's still no guarantee of anything other than you just gave some school money for courses that dont count anywhere.


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## GDIklz (Jan 28, 2011)

Okay, so should I steer clear of a school that doesn't have specific ABET accreditation for Mechanical Engineering? Even if it's accredited for "Engineering"?


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 28, 2011)

GDIklz said:


> Okay, so should I steer clear of a school that doesn't have specific ABET accreditation for Mechanical Engineering? Even if it's accredited for "Engineering"?


Yes. You want to go to a school that has the program you are interested in specifically accredited.


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## Dleg (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree. But if you have any questions, contact ABET through their web page and ask them. I don't understand what the difference is between having a general engineering accreditation for the college program, versus degree-specific accreditation. But I would err on the side of caution and make sure your specific degree is accredited.


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## ironman (Feb 3, 2011)

navyasw02 said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> > The back door into grad school is enrolling in 600 level classes as a non degree seeking student and then applying on the basis of your grades in thoes classes. I dont know if this works for med school or law school but it will work for an engineering masters.
> ...


It is a bit of a gamble but if you want to get into grad school and your undergrad GPA is not all that then you may have to try doing this. Also this is the one case (in my opinion) where the name brand of your undergrad degree can possibly be a get out of jail free card for a not so hot GPA.

In my case I am working on the pre-req's for a EE MS.

I have a degree from a VERY well known engineering school but my GPA was not hot

I am taking cross disipline undergrad classes to get me ready for MS level work in EE and am doing well

Hopefully between my name brand degree, my PE and doing well in my "gap" classes I will be able to get a MS

Of course its not gaurenteed but at the very least it will count toward my continuing education.

The money is all relative, when you are in undergrad living on loans or mom and dad 3 credits of tuition is big money (espcially if you are going to a brand name, out of state school) now that I am making decent money and only taking one class at a time its a write off. Also technically I dont need a second degree to test for a second PE either so worse case I can take enough "gap" classes to be deemed competent in EE to sit for the PE and could do cross disipline work internally in my company (I already have 1 year stamped in cross disipline work), that would be the least ideal way to however. Also having the MS shaves a year off your second PE time requirements.

So if I can do this so can others.

If you went to a no name school it may be tougher to get into grad school but if its what you want to do you have to try right.


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## benbo (Feb 3, 2011)

ironman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> > ironman said:
> ...


That extra education must be paying off. That post is actually intelligible.


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## ALBin517 (Feb 4, 2011)

ironman said:


> navyasw02 said:
> 
> 
> > ironman said:
> ...


I never knew a second PE could be necessary. My stamp does not specify "civil" so I thought I could sign whatever I felt comfortable signing.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 4, 2011)

depends on the state. Some you can only practice in the test you took. Others like IL the statute states you can practice in your area of knowledge, doesn't matter which test you took.


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## ironman (Feb 4, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> depends on the state. Some you can only practice in the test you took. Others like IL the statute states you can practice in your area of knowledge, doesn't matter which test you took.


Thats true, in my state they have disipline specific stamps. They are however in the process of going to a general stamp so i called the board and they said that even though they are going to a general stamp your disipline will still be listed in your licence and you can only stamp what you tested for. The reason they are going with a general stamp is to make it easier on the board to add more disiplines to the list (we did not have fire and gas, instrumentation, or some other PE disiplines), it was creating issues when there were big projects going on and you had out of state engineers comming up to work on fire and gas designs but they could not transfer their stamp, however, they did not want to go as liberal as IL.

I kind of like the individual disiplines for marketing purposes, having a PE in a disipline where there are few people makes it much more marketable and drives the bill rate up. If you have general stamps I have discovered that there are a sufficient number of PE's that will just stamp things that they really should not be stamping so if you start allowing people to stamp things that "they feel competent to stamp" you can start having ME PE's stamping P&amp;ID's/PFD's/etc that maybe they should not be stamping. If companies can strong arm an existing ME to stamp they dont have to hire a contractor or bring on another engineer. That is not good for engineers or bill rates.

I am ultimatly more interested in the MS because thats the bare minimum to get into research type work. If the bill rates in engineering get driven down too low at least I will have the resume to do something a little more fun, while other engineers eat each other alive driving each others bill rates down to that of a bus driver. I doubt that will happen but you want to be as liquid as possible when the crap hits the fan. I guess finding out you make only 3$/hr more than a construction flagger kinda sucks.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 4, 2011)

Did you bump your head or something, ironman? Your recent posts are surprising coherent. Congratulations on sounding like less of an idiot.


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