# Casio fx-115es on the exam?



## superme (Feb 8, 2007)

I noticed that they just removed the Casio fx-115es calculator off of the approved calculator list for the California exams. Is this true? Or did they just forget to include it? It was a great calculator, great display and it handled imaginary (complex) and rectangular numbers so conveniently. I hope it's just a mistake, that was a nice calculator. It's not as big a deal to me anymore since I passed the Electrical PE and that is probably the only discipline that uses complex numbers a lot, but I'd still like to be able to use it for other exams. If anyone knows more, please let us know, thanks!


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## Dark Knight (Feb 8, 2007)

Yep.....banned. I used it on April 2006 and was excellent with complex numbers. For the price it kicks HP-33's butt.


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## Dleg (Feb 8, 2007)

I used it in the October exam, and it's all the calculator I will ever need. I wonder why they banned it?


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## ctiedt (Feb 8, 2007)

Dleg said:


> I used it in the October exam, and it's all the calculator I will ever need. I wonder why they banned it?


The Casio FX-115MS is still allowed on the exam though. The list seems to be getting smaller all the time.


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## Tina (Feb 9, 2007)

What about the Casio fx-115MS. Is that one banned, too ? I use it all the time.

I found on their website that they don't allow calculators with QWERTY keypads. They also list calculators that are prohibited for the NCEES exam but allowed for the state-specific exam. I couldn't find any other reference. Could you please list the link ?

Thanks.


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## superme (Feb 9, 2007)

That sucks. The ES is a great calculator. The MS is good also, but the ES was way better. As usual, the Board is way too paranoid and acting ridiculously. What else is new? It's not like you can store any answers or any kind of test information on the ES. It really doesn't do anything more than the other calculators; it was just easier to use. Sometimes, the Board really gets me frustrated, they just can't think out of the box. Here are the advantages of the ES:

--For complex numbers, you can switch back and forth easily (which can also be done with the MS). What's unique about it is that you can input the values in rectangular and polar format in the same entry. That can't be done with the MS. That was very handy for the Electrical exam.

--When you type a long entry in, and then realize you screwed up, you can take the cursor backward and forward. The other Casios do this also, I believe. The HP can't do this, I don't think, at least, not very easily.

--The display on the ES was awesome; one big dot-matrix display. Not half dot matrix, and half old-school stick figures.

Also, that HP-33 calculator is terrible. It's a piece of crap, excuse my language. That was a marketing ploy devised together by all the testing boards and HP to tap into that HP cult that holds on to the RPN stuff with their dear lives. No offense to the RPN people (honestly), but the days when RPN was faster is long gone. I challenge and continue to challenge anyone who thinks RPN is going to save any time, at least not with the type of problems on standardized exams like the PE. I understand that some people are just used to it, that's all. For $50, I was expecting much more. Take my word for it, if they banned the ES now, the best calculator --hands-down-- is the Casio fx-115ms.

I feel bad for the upcoming electrical people because that ES was so nice. I know, I'm probably making too big a deal out of it, but there was no reason to ban it. None whatsoever. This industry really gets at me sometimes. For a bunch of engineers, we sure are antiquated and old-school a lot of the time. Other people think engineers are all high-tech and use advanced technology, but I look around and laugh at it sometimes. Also, about the Board, why do they take 3 freakin months to grade a completely scantron test when the cutoff score is determined before the test is even given? Makes no sense whatsoever, and puts too much strain on people who are waiting to hear if they passed/didn't pass for the next test which is only 6 months later, which leaves them with 3 months to study, unless they start studying just in case, which is very annoying if you find out you passed.

Argh, don't get me started...

PS, when I took the EIT a few years ago, before the test started, I noticed a guy using a TI-85. I told him it wasn't allowed and he pretended not to speak English. The proctor didn't notice because she was really old. Stuff like that pisses me off. Not that I'm accusing him of storing answers on it or anything, it's just way easier to use a good calculator compared to the pieces of junk they allow now.


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## mcole (Feb 9, 2007)

I used the ES in October. For the ChE exam, I could have used any very simple scientific calculator and the results would have been the same. I might have scrolled back on a calculation once or twice, but otherwise I just punched in numbers and got results. I still have my old Casio EL-506D from 1991, and if they would have let me, I would have used that calc.

I don't know what other exams are like, but try not to get too bent out of shape. 1 + 1 = 2 on all calculators.

My 2 cents.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 9, 2007)

I used the 115-MS on my exam. Great calculator, use it at the office now.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2007)

mcole said:


> I used the ES in October. For the ChE exam, I could have used any very simple scientific calculator and the results would have been the same. I might have scrolled back on a calculation once or twice, but otherwise I just punched in numbers and got results. I still have my old Casio EL-506D from 1991, and if they would have let me, I would have used that calc.
> I don't know what other exams are like, but try not to get too bent out of shape. 1 + 1 = 2 on all calculators.
> 
> My 2 cents.


I have been using RPN/HP Calculators since my first year of college (quite some time ago!).

I will agree with the simplicity of your statements above.

However, on a timed pressure-cooker type exam, if you are trying to go from RPN to Algebraic entry especially with some mathematical arguments that require lots of order-of-operation keystrokes (roots, powers, logarithms, _etc._), I must take issue that all calculators are the same - indeed they are not.

I know the last exam that I failed one of the contributing factors was using an algebraic entry calculator. I upgraded to RPN for this exam and passed. I didn't program any equations nor use any of the other features - I just needed the RPN entry for 'comfort'.

To expand this idea within the context of this thread, if the NCEES is really that concerned that there are models of calculators that will enhance the chances of exam subversion then they should fashion a calculator that they feel comports with exam security requirements. In other words, they should manufacture two models of calculator - 1 algebraic and 1 RPN. In this way there can be no complaints - everyone is on the same 'footing'.

:2cents:

JR


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## singlespeed (Feb 9, 2007)

mcole said:


> I don't know what other exams are like, but try not to get too bent out of shape. 1 + 1 = 2 on all calculators.
> My 2 cents.





superme said:


> It's not as big a deal to me anymore since I passed the Electrical PE and that is probably the only discipline that uses complex numbers a lot, but I'd still like to be able to use it for other exams.


Doesn't sound like *superme* is bent out of shape, but simply bummed that a calculator that handles complex numbers well, is no longer allowed.

I noticed that the post specifically referred to the EE field which uses complex numbers heavily. I willing to bet that Chemistry does not use complex numbers much, but would still think that reading the problem statements thoroughly would be beneficial to answering the problem correctly.

The same can be said for reading posts on a message board, if one reads them thoroughly, then one might respond appropriately and not make a jacka$$ of oneself.

That's just my "1.414 + j1.414" cents!! :2cents:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 9, 2007)

> I have been using RPN/HP Calculators since my first year of college (quite some time ago!).


How old are you jreg?

In my experience, everyone 40 and up uses one of those old rectangular, semi-scientific RPN calculators by HP. I can't add 2+2 (I mean 2, enter, 2, enter, +) on that thing.

I've got 2 or 3 TI graphing calculators I used from later in high school through grad school. But the purely "scientific" calc I used until I began PE exam prep was a Casio fx-991s I've had since high school chemistry, in 1995. Still works like a charm.

The Casio I used on the PE is very similar to that one. Almost identical layout and style of input. So I was comfortable with it immediately, which is real important on the exam.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 9, 2007)

> That's just my "1.414 + j1.414" cents!!


:2cents:


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## superme (Feb 9, 2007)

> To expand this idea within the context of this thread, if the NCEES is really that concerned that there are models of calculators that will enhance the chances of exam subversion then they should fashion a calculator that they feel comports with exam security requirements.


From what I understand, that's what the HP 33 was. It was sort of a collaboration effort with the testing boards to come up with a calculator that will be accepted. The problem is that they were so paranoid about security, that they put all sorts of stupid restrictions on it. For example, there's a cursor pad on the calculator, but it's useless, because you make the cursor go back once you make an entry. And you can't retrieve previous entries once they are entered, by pressing the back button, like most calculators. There's no security breach there, because the memory is cleared once the calculator turns off, so there was no need to put that restriction. And there is, of course, that $50 pricetag, which is silly.


> Doesn't sound like superme is bent out of shape, but simply bummed that a calculator that handles complex numbers well, is no longer allowed.


Thanks singlespeed. I'm not really bent out of shape, I'm just puzzled at why the allowed it for one test, now it is banned. And I'll admit that I'm overly suspicious of the NCEES board anyway in general. Even though I haven't had to retake a test yet, I'm still annoyed that they make you wait 3 months to recieve your scores on a purely scantron test. That's not fair to people if they have to retake it. Look at the other standardized tests that are purely scantron, like the GRE, you get your score right when you finish.

Wanna hear more griping? How come the NCEES doesn't release more official practice exams? It would be nice if people could have more than one exam to practice one, especially those who have had to retake the tests. Speaking for Electrical and Mechanical, at least, there's only one. You can buy other practice exams from other companies, but I found that they didn't resemble the actual test very well at all. I think the reason why is because the Board recycles tests and answers and they don't want to spend the time and money to come up with new questions, so they guard the old ones with their lives. Anyway, I don't know why I got so riled up about this, I guess it's because I really liked that calculator, and was so surprised to see it banned so soon, and for no real good reason.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> How old are you jreg?


I am 35 ... :2cents: I have actually started accepting the characterization of 'old' -- it's a funny thing when you realize you are 'old'.

When I first started college, the primary graphing calculators on the market were TI-81 and HP-48S/SX. They both suffer from obvious issues, but RPN entry seemed to click with me.

When I started taking my upper classes in engineering school, many of my classes REQUIRED HP calculators. The model of choice at that time was the newly improved HP48G/GX. I still have exams/exam solutions where you were required to derive solutions for problems from first principles, write the equation (usually required iterative approach), and then include solution method with initial guesses and final value calculator converged to.

I still use my HP-48G for day-to-day problems, even though most problem solving I do is worked out through a desktop program (spreadsheet or other specialty program). It is old and beaten up - but it still serves it's function.

Kinda like me 

JR


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## Rocco (Feb 11, 2007)

SapperPE said:


> The RPN is da bomb, bro.


Truer words have rarely been spoken...

I'll never leave RPN. Then again, I spent lunchtime on Friday sizing heat exchangers in practice for the upcoming Mecanical PE, and I decided to do all of the calculations with my old K&amp;E sliderule. I dunno, it's fun and it makes everyone think I'm goofy...however, it's a great exercise in engineering precision and significant figures, too.

I wonder if they'd let me use the sliderule on the PE?


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## jfusilloPE (Feb 12, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> I used the 115-MS on my exam. Great calculator, use it at the office now.


Same here. I thought there was nothing better in the world than my TI 85.


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## MetroRAFB (Feb 12, 2007)

SapperPE said:


> I am 30, and I won't use anything but an RPN (HP) calculator. And by the way, VTE, it would be 2 enter 2 + [diplay = 4] then when I wanted to square it, I simply hit the ^ 2 button and its all done. The RPN is da bomb, bro.



^^^^^^^^^^What he said. RPN rocks. I especially like handing over my 48s when someone asks to borrow my calculator for a quick easy calculation. Most so far haven't been familiar with RPN, it's funny to watch them fiddle around with it for a couple of minutes trying to figure it out. :beerchug:


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## singlespeed (Feb 12, 2007)

Rocco said:


> I wonder if they'd let me use the sliderule on the PE?



Dude, that Keuffel &amp; Esser is probably something you don't want confiscated!

I can just imagine some blue haired proctor looking for a picture of that on their approved calculator page... how bad would you feel if she hadn't taken all of her meds and had an episode of some sort? :beerchug:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 12, 2007)

jfusillo said:


> Same here. I thought there was nothing better in the world than my TI 85.


I used the TI-83 in high school and college, then went with the TI-89 for grad school. I was never a big fan of the 85. I always found it to be on the user un-friendly side.

My 89 has much more functionality than my Casio 115, but under normal circumstances a basic scientific calculator is all I need at the office.


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## Jax6S (Feb 16, 2007)

I used the FX-115ES on the October exam. I'm surprised that they banned it already.

Actually I feel that the calculator requirement is rather silly. I mean, my regular calculator is FX-115W which is much less advanced than FX-115ES. However, the W wasn't on the list back then so that's why I bought the ES.


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## kevo_55 (Feb 16, 2007)

I just can't go without my HP33s, but then again I fell into the RPN trap.

Once you learn and really work in RPN, it really is tough to go back.

I have the TI-36X but I can't really use it too well if I'm in my "RPN Mode."

Anyone else have this problem?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2007)

kevo_55 said:


> I just can't go without my HP33s, but then again I fell into the RPN trap.
> Once you learn and really work in RPN, it really is tough to go back.
> 
> I have the TI-36X but I can't really use it too well if I'm in my "RPN Mode."
> ...


kevo --

I think I can get by with simple operations (+, -, *, /) algebraicly, but as the complexity of the calculation goes up the more I revert back to my RPN tendencies. Especially if it has multiple steps, then I like having the multiple stacks to manipulate the order of operations entry.

JR


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