# Stormwater Software



## rktman (May 28, 2012)

I am trying to decide on our next software purchase. We need something that can do Stormcad type calcs, but I really don't like what Bentley has done to the interface (if it's anything like WaterCad). So out of curiosity, what do you all use on a daily basis (not including Hec-1, HMS, RAS, etc)?

Thanks.


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (May 29, 2012)

What sort of application are you looking for? That will help you pick a program.

I suggest contacting this guy in Florida who is an expert on the matter.


----------



## bradlelf (May 29, 2012)

WinTR20 is the go to program for SCS methodology, although it does not have a real user friendly interface. Hydraflow Hydrographs (now part of Civil 3d since they got bought out by autodesk) is a good all around program which can run many different models for routing, Tc comps and complex addhyd's. The problem here is that you need to buy Civil 3D to access it now. Additionally, if you have complex outlet structures this may not be the best program since you are kind of limited on how it computes the discharge curve.

Other regional models such as VTPSUHM which is based upon PennDOT IDF curves uses the universal rational methodology to generate a volume for a rational routing, can be used.

I was never a fan of HydroCAD/waterCAD or any of the Bentley programs, I found them overly complex and the results always slightly off.


----------



## rktman (May 29, 2012)

Some day, I will have to pull the trigger on C3D but hopefully not today. I do most small site development work. In my experience it's just not geared for the small civil firm. Maybe I can find an old version of the Hydraflow that is independent. Thanks.


----------



## bradlelf (May 30, 2012)

My current firm is only 25 people ... much smaller than my previous company. We are actually Beta testers for AutoDesk so we get the latest and greatest C3D every year.


----------



## DHoss83 (Jun 18, 2012)

Are you doing small site drainage studies? Someone else mentioned Hydraflow Hydrographs... but its not worth the cost if it requires a Civil 3D license. And if you are doing small sites, what is wrong with hand calcs or excel?

Anything of significance, I would say Hec-HMS or SWMM. Just because its free, doesn't mean its not a great piece of software. Most watershed studies use HMS and RAS.


----------



## rktman (Jun 21, 2012)

I do use HMS, RAS, HEC-1, spreadsheets for runoff calcs.

My original question was for Storm Inlet type calcs where a spreadsheet can get overly tedious and kill productive time. Just because its free, doesn't mean it's the best use of my time.


----------



## bradlelf (Jun 21, 2012)

Hydraflow Stormsewers ... or excel, depends on how complex the syste, is and whether HGL comps have to be done a certain way.


----------



## John QPE (Nov 4, 2012)

Bentley completely destroyed StormCAD...we just upgraded to the new Bentley version because the Haestad version will not run on Windows 7.

I've given up using the Bentley version of StormCAD. They took what used to be a fairly stright-forward program and made it so difficult to use.

What did you end up going with? I have an old version of Hydraflow Storm Sewers sitting in my desk, I'll probably start using that.

My biggest fear is that Bentley buys out HydroCAD, and destroys that awesome program.


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 4, 2012)

I think McKeonCAD is the best stormwater software out there.


----------



## jeb6294 (Nov 5, 2012)

When I was in the private sector doing a lot of stormwater work for residential/commercial developments I developed my own Excel spreadsheet that worked really well. Just go in the first sheet and put in your catchbasin ID's and what is going to them, i.e. area, coefficient, etc. On the second page you just put in the system and the length and slope of the run and it figures everything else out and sticks it in the chart for you. If there were runs coming into a catchbasin from different directions it would actually pick that up and add in the flow from everything coming into the catchbasin when making it's calculations. It was one of those things I tweaked over time to the point that it became a pretty serious deal. At various times some of the senior engineers wanted me to show them how I did it since it worked so well, but they gave up after a few minutes and just accepted the fact that it worked.

Although the nice thing about McKeonCAD is that you only need a Ti-30. The bad news is you need to have an I.Q. of 147.


----------



## rktman (Nov 6, 2012)

mikedee said:


> Bentley completely destroyed StormCAD...we just upgraded to the new Bentley version because the Haestad version will not run on Windows 7.
> 
> I've given up using the Bentley version of StormCAD. They took what used to be a fairly stright-forward program and made it so difficult to use.
> 
> ...


Thank you for confirming. That's exactly what I was talking about. Bentley turned an awesome and intuitive program into a piece of crap.


----------



## bradlelf (Nov 8, 2012)

rktman said:


> mikedee said:
> 
> 
> > Bentley completely destroyed StormCAD...we just upgraded to the new Bentley version because the Haestad version will not run on Windows 7.
> ...


+1


----------



## bradlelf (Nov 8, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> I think McKeonCAD is the best stormwater software out there.


What is McKeonCAD ... link?


----------



## jeb6294 (Nov 8, 2012)

bradlelf said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > I think McKeonCAD is the best stormwater software out there.
> ...


Oh good lord you didn't....


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 8, 2012)

bradlelf said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > I think McKeonCAD is the best stormwater software out there.
> ...


You've never used it? It's the state stormwater modeling system of Florida. Very prestigious program, but geared towards experts in that field.


----------



## The Car (Nov 8, 2012)

bradlelf said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > I think McKeonCAD is the best stormwater software out there.
> ...


And you call yourself an engineer!


----------



## bradlelf (Nov 9, 2012)

The Car said:


> bradlelf said:
> 
> 
> > VTEnviro said:
> ...


WOW ... I dont do work in Florida and have never heard of the program. Where can I download a copy?

75% of my work is on TR-20 and 25% on VTPSHUM.


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 9, 2012)

> Although the nice thing about McKeonCAD is that you only need a Ti-30. The bad news is you need to have an I.Q. of 147.


That program is downright nasty to the user. I'm sure it would be the industry standard if it didn't have so many issues.



> WOW ... I dont do work in Florida and have never heard of the program. Where can I download a copy?


It ain't cheap, and I'll try to find a link for you, but if you want be wowed, check it out.


----------



## NSEARCH (Dec 14, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> bradlelf said:
> 
> 
> > VTEnviro said:
> ...


State stormwater modeling system of Florida? I've been doing stormwater work in FL for 12 years and have never even heard of it that's how prestigious it is.

ASAD, HydraFlow, and ICPR are the top stormwater modeling programs for transportation drainage, site civil, and watershed modeling in the State of FL. Bridge hydraulics, water quality or groundwater, then you're looking at SWMM, HEC HMS/RAS.

I would look into ASAD or even an ICPR license, both will be within your budget.


----------



## John QPE (Dec 25, 2012)

Is this Mckeon CAD some inside joke?

I've never heard of it, and it's not showing up in any google searches. If it doesn't exist on Google, it doesn't exist.


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 25, 2012)

mikedee said:


> Is this Mckeon CAD some inside joke?


Winner!

We used to have a member here with a similar screen name who claimed stormwater modeling was the most difficult thing about civil engineering. For reasons not worth going into here, he was banned. Anything regarding stormwater modeling has been a running gag since.


----------



## NSEARCH (Dec 27, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> mikedee said:
> 
> 
> > Is this Mckeon CAD some inside joke?
> ...


VT - my bad, now that you mentioned the name in that light I remember him.


----------



## bradlelf (Dec 27, 2012)

Aha ... makes more sense now


----------



## John QPE (Jan 3, 2013)

Anything to make stormwater humorous, I guess :juggle:


----------



## NJmike PE (Mar 6, 2014)

VTEnviro said:


> 'bradlelf said:
> 
> 
> > 'VTEnviro said:
> ...





VTEnviro said:


> > Although the nice thing about McKeonCAD is that you only need a Ti-30. The bad news is you need to have an I.Q. of 147.
> 
> 
> That program is downright nasty to the user. I'm sure it would be the industry standard if it didn't have so many issues.
> ...


here's another gem!


----------



## NJmike PE (Mar 6, 2014)

I tried looking for the origin of this, but never found it. I would love to see it to better appreciate this thread


----------



## Mike in Gastonia (Mar 10, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> I tried looking for the origin of this, but never found it. I would love to see it to better appreciate this thread




He's a guy that used to post on here and was just...... I'm not even sure how to describe him. He got booted several times and kept coming back. Then he started his own message board. He started his own business and thinks that he's God's gift to storm water modeling........

Here's his website - http://www.mckeon-engineering.com/. 

Here's a couple quotes from his website:

"He has worked concentrating mostly on stormwater modeling (the most difficult part of the Civil Engineering field) as a freelance or independent contractor to several engineering firms. "

"In business since 2007, we are Orlando's Finest and most Prestigious Civil Engineering and Land Development firm"

His facebook page is even better. About the only person that ever comments on it is his mother. And No - I am not kidding.......


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 10, 2014)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> His facebook page is even better. About the only person that ever comments on it is his mother. And No - I am not kidding.......




That's sad.


----------



## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

Most prestigious in what way? Some people are quite delusional. Very sad indeed.


----------



## Road Guy (Mar 12, 2014)

It looks like the website is no longer functional


----------



## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> It looks like the website is no longer functional


I thought the same thing at first, but I think it's just bad link

http://www.mckeon-engineering.com


----------



## Road Guy (Mar 12, 2014)

Okay good I was worried that people in the Central Florida area are going to experience massive flooding in parking lots and subdivisions if he is no longer working in stormwater modeling


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Mar 12, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> It looks like the website is no longer functional




And that degrades it functionality how?


----------



## NJmike PE (Mar 12, 2014)

NJmike PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like the website is no longer functional
> ...








Road Guy said:


> Okay good I was worried that people in the Central Florida area are going to experience massive flooding in parking lots and subdivisions if he is no longer working in stormwater modeling


instead of a bad link, it's just a bad website for a bad engineer


----------



## K19 (Mar 12, 2014)

Is that a geocities template?


----------

