# Invalidated PE Exam (!!!)



## Timmy! (Jul 2, 2007)

A co-worker took the April 2007 PE exam with me. He never received his results. In fact, he received no notification from either the State Board or NCEES.

He called the State Board and was told that his exam was invalidated because he allegedly used an ink pen to fill in the personal information at the top of the forms. He used the NCEES pencil for the exam itself.

Does anyone think he has any recourse to appeal such a decision? What would you do, otherwise than consuming massive quantities of beer in light of the fact that you threw away an 8-hour day for nothing?


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## megoo98 (Jul 2, 2007)

well, did he in fact use the pen? if he did, i seriously doubt he has any recourse. it was pretty clear in the instructions that if you didn't use the pencil, it would be invalidated. sucks for him.


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## ktulu (Jul 2, 2007)

Well, if he used the NCEES pencil to fill in the personal information, I would raise as much HELL as I could, until they pulled my exam sheet and erased part of it, just to confirm that he did in fact use the pencil...then I would raise even more HELL until I got an apology...

If he used a pen, then he's an idiot and shit-out-of-luck....(hopefully, he used the pencil)

ktulu


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## dkent (Jul 2, 2007)

Good luck. They don't care.


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## benbo (Jul 2, 2007)

If he used the pen he is out of luck because, not only was he not supposed to use it, he was not even supposed to have it at the test site.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:VlwHrH...;cd=1&amp;gl=us

It is a prohibited item.

I know these rules are ridiculous, but I obsessed about them.

He may be lucky they are only invalidating this exam.


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## Timmy! (Jul 2, 2007)

Yeah, I get this feeling that he's hosed.

As a foreign engineer, with English not being his native tongue, maybe he can play the discrimination card...


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## megoo98 (Jul 2, 2007)

he would have better luck with the "i didn't understand because my english is bad card" although then they'd wonder why one part was pen and hte other was pencil.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

Timmy! said:


> Yeah, I get this feeling that he's hosed.
> As a foreign engineer, with English not being his native tongue, maybe he can play the discrimination card...


I don't think NCEES is going to care because it was posted in thier rules as benbo pointed out. They will just say ...






It is an unfortuante turn of events, but hopefully your friend can overcome this obstacle and re-take the exam.

JR


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## Dark Knight (Jul 2, 2007)

Unfortunate. It is a shame but the rules are the darn rules for everybody. I feel sorry for that engineer.

NCEES, the mighty gods, did not care, don't care and will not care about it. He violated a rule, a stupid rule, but that is the bottom line of the issue. All that NCEES is going to say is WGASA.


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## megoo98 (Jul 2, 2007)

to be honest, i don't feel sorry for this guy. it royally sucks, but how do you miss this one? they announced the no pen rule no less than 3 times, morning AND afternoon, in addition to all of the paperwork we got beforehand.

i sat there, waiting to take the test, astonished by the amount of people who obviously didn't take the time to read the paperwork sent. there were people with hats, people with jackets and sweatshirts, pens and pencils. it was insane!


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## DVINNY (Jul 2, 2007)

It sucks for him, but he needs to read the rules. We all had to read them and follow them, and how hard was it for us? Really?

I hope your joking about the discrimination card. I don't even want to get into that one.


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## Eckybay (Jul 2, 2007)

That definitely sucks for your friend, as every one else has said. But if he did in fact use a pen instead of the provided pencil, then I think he should just be planning on taking it again. Rules are rules on the exam, if you start making exceptions for on one, people will expect to be the exception to all of them...


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## kathik (Jul 2, 2007)

What I don't get is how he could even do it! I know that at my test location there is no way that I could have used a pen to do anything. They were "strict" to say the least! :smileyballs:


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## HiVolts (Jul 3, 2007)

benbo said:


> ...He may be lucky they are only invalidating this exam.


I agree - any writing instrument, other than the NCEES pencil (even if it is a No. 2 mechanical pencil itself), is catagorized as a form of cheating. Its crazy, but that's how it is for all of us.


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## stompbox (Jul 3, 2007)

megoo98 said:


> to be honest, i don't feel sorry for this guy. it royally sucks, but how do you miss this one? they announced the no pen rule no less than 3 times, morning AND afternoon, in addition to all of the paperwork we got beforehand.


Not only that but it was written throughout all the literature before hand as well. He has no legs to stand on.

To play the "don't understand english" card is a cop-out and it will never stand up considering they verbally told you and as i said had it written out in many different places. You could not pass the exam without being able to read english and therefore at minimum you should have read the instructions even if you could not understand their speaking.


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## kevo_55 (Jul 3, 2007)

The thing is, this guy is taking a test to be a PE.

In my book, he's a big boy. If you don't follow the rules then too bad.


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## Road Guy (Jul 3, 2007)

ouch that sucks for him.

a little harsh but I think they just have to be consistent.


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## Hill William (Jul 3, 2007)

Mental note:

When you're taking the biggest test of your life and they tell you not to use a pen and make a pretty big deal about it. DON'T USE A PEN!!!!!


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## VA_Env_Engr (Jul 3, 2007)

I could not agree more with all the points raised above. Rules are for everyone. Period. He would have a case if they had not made it clear prior to the exam or even on the day of the exam. But as it stands now, IMO, no exception.


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## Ritchie503 (Jul 3, 2007)

First off I am glad that NCEES enforces the rules. He should have know the rule, it is on the website and a copy was mailed to me before I took the exam.

Second I think it would have required a lot less effort to just grab/use the NCEES pencil staring at you from right on the table instead of grabbing your own pen.. the pencil at my table was just begging to be used.


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## dkent (Jul 3, 2007)

+1 .....they watched us like a hawk. The dang woman proctor that was in my section kept walking around and messing with the stuff on my desk (like my ID, the yellow letter, the name plate, etc.). She kept straightening stuff. About halfway through the morning session she stops next to me and proceeds to look real close at the books I brought in, like she was seeing something wrong. Then she just walks off. She did this a couple more times before the test was over. Talk about a distraction. Later on she threw out the guy behind me because she saw he had brought his cell phone in after lunch.

If you're buddy had my proctor, he probably would have been thrown out of the test. 

D



kathik said:


> What I don't get is how he could even do it! I know that at my test location there is no way that I could have used a pen to do anything. They were "strict" to say the least! :smileyballs:


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## megoo98 (Jul 3, 2007)

my proctors didn't notice much. the guy sitting next to me had no less than 10 pens and pencils on his desk. he asked me a question about it and appeared shocked when i told him that he was only allowed to use the pencils provided.


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## bpeltzer (Jul 3, 2007)

If you're not kidding about the "discrimination card" I really hope that he does this.

And that the reply he gets is along the lines of "yes we do disciminate, against fools who can't follow directions"

Serioulsy, didn't we all take the test in elementary school where we are given an exam that says to read the entire test before beginning nad the last instruction is to turn the test over and don't do anything besides fill in your name? I thought we were all through with this. Maybe we need to export reading comprehension to this guy's country.


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## LXZ (Jul 3, 2007)

Sorry to hear that sad story. Everyone got to be careful.


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## Timmy! (Jul 3, 2007)

OK guys, I was only joking about the "...play the discrimination card" part, but nowadays a good attorney can [unfortunately] work wonders [see "Simpson, OJ"].

Yeah, I figure he's dead in the water. The only saving grace is that Clemson, SC should hope and pray that his father is not some General in charge of the nuclear arsenal in some third-world country...

I can see the headlines now..."Due to excessive radiation levels within our office, the October 2007 PE exam will be indefinitely delayed".


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (Jul 3, 2007)

A) The "illiterate" card wouldn't work. How could he understand the test questions (fairly complex) if he couldn't understand the instructions?

B) I wouldn't want to hire a PE if he couldn't follow a simple instruction about a writing tool.

C) He switched from pen to pencil for the answers. Why?


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## Timmy! (Jul 3, 2007)

Guys, given the pathetic university graduation rates for engineers in the US, in 20 years from now the PE exam instructions will be issued in Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and Farsi. Anyone who speaks English will sit there, not knowing whether to scratch their watch or wind their ass.


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## Dark Knight (Jul 3, 2007)

Why did he use ink to write his name?

a. He did not know it was a violation and he was so sure he was going to pass he wrote in ink so no one could frame his test.

b. He knew it was a violation but he knew that thre was no chance in hell to pass and he decided to do that. Now he has an excuse before his friends and relatives: : "These fudging nazis invalidated my test because I used ink to write my name"

c. He did know the rule but made a mistake. Wrote with the pen because he thought it was the pencil.

d. He did not understand English, he had no clue, and did what he used to do at his country; "ink" the name

e. WGASA


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## Undertaker (Jul 4, 2007)

Timmy! said:


> OK guys, I was only joking about the "...play the discrimination card" part, but nowadays a good attorney can [unfortunately] work wonders [see "Simpson, OJ"].


I dont mean to be rude but that is a clear and present issue in our nation. We are flooded everyday with thousands of inmigrants and guess what is their favorite card everytime something doesnt go their way? Exactly. "I have been discriminated". :true: Dont make an issue of this because it is not. Thats the plain and simple truth. About the good attorney? Agree.Our justice system is going south. Justice is just an ideal.Here, what matters is how good is the attorney, how well he can sell his points to the jury. :210: If that guy goes to the courts and for some reason in NCEES policy they dont specify the word "pen" I think the guy, being the dumbass he is for violating the most idiotic rule", has a chance of winning. :smileyballs:


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## DVINNY (Jul 4, 2007)

I agree with Undertaker.

I don't agree with discriminating against anyone, but that obviously is not what happened here. If the guy can't follow a rule that everyone else has to, then he should have to take the test again in 6 months and follow the rules that time.


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