# PE Licensure in Illinois by Endorsement



## Civil02 (Aug 23, 2011)

So here is my frustrated story;

I applied for FE exam in Illinois in 2007 and also submitted degree evaluation through CPEES ( Foriegn B.S in Civil engineering and I also have M.S degree from Illinos). The illinois board reviewed my application and recommended that my B.S. degree is defecient 5.5 credit hours in math (beyond trignometry). I took 2 math classes (6 credit hours) at a local university and submitted the transcripts. The board reviewed again and approved me to take FE exam in 2009.

Things changed for me little bit during this period and I ended up taking FE and PE exam (yes, have more than 8 years of verified experience) in Winsconsin. I passed the PE exam this year.

I submitted my PE licensure application by endorsement to illinos board and they denied my application due to the following reasons;

-B.S. degree is defecient 2.4 credit hours in math

B.S.degree is defecient 15 credit hours in Physics and Chemistry

B.S.Degree is defecient 9.9. credit hours in hamanities and social sciences

The same board approved my B.S. degree before to sit for the FE exam. Now they are saying they made an error to approve my B.S. degree in 2009.

According to Board, not more than 15 credit hours may be made up in math and sciences which means I can never be qualified for PE licensure in Illinois.

I have really good job in Illinois and would like to work in Illinios but the board has denied my application now even though I spent money and time to take those math classes after they gave me approval.

I was just wondering if anybody had any experience like this before with Illinois. Any help/sugesstion will be appreciated.

They told me that I can go to the court for review against their decison.


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## snickerd3 (Aug 23, 2011)

you can't appeal and actually go before the board to plead your case?


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## Civil02 (Aug 23, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> you can't appeal and actually go before the board to plead your case?


I requested but they say I can go to the court because this is board's final decision.


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## Peele1 (Aug 24, 2011)

Civil02 said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > you can't appeal and actually go before the board to plead your case?
> ...


Then go to court. Get an attorney. They want you to. They told you to. They are hiding behind something. Do as much of the research on your own as you can. Read the state laws, read the board's regs, understand them.

I also think that the 15 hour max is B.S.


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## snickerd3 (Aug 24, 2011)

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/adminc...800002200R.html

no more than 15 hours between math and BASIC science whatever that means...i didn't see a definition for basic science, but I wouldn't put physics OR chemistry in the basic category since they have their own line. Maybe basic science is that other science category?


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## snickerd3 (Aug 24, 2011)

what is CPEES? The IL rules say they only accept foreign degree evals from NCEES.

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/adminc...800002800R.html


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## snickerd3 (Aug 24, 2011)

Also, some of the rules changed in March 2010...which could be the reason you were ok in 2007/2009 and not ok now...not because it was an error in previous years.


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## ALBin517 (Aug 24, 2011)

I have a friend who majored in Surveying Engineering, became a PS, then became a PE in about 20 states.

But when he applied to Illinois to be a PE, they turned him down.

He took them to court and got the PE license in 2007.


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## Civil02 (Aug 24, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> what is CPEES? The IL rules say they only accept foreign degree evals from NCEES. http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/adminc...800002800R.html


CPEES used to be an independant evaluator accepted by Illinos and now CPEES is under NCEES.


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## Civil02 (Aug 24, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> Also, some of the rules changed in March 2010...which could be the reason you were ok in 2007/2009 and not ok now...not because it was an error in previous years.


No, they clearly admitted to me that the board made an error in 2007.


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## Civil02 (Aug 24, 2011)

ALBin517 said:


> I have a friend who majored in Surveying Engineering, became a PS, then became a PE in about 20 states.
> But when he applied to Illinois to be a PE, they turned him down.
> 
> He took them to court and got the PE license in 2007.


Can I get info about his attorney? May be I would do the same thing then.


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## ALBin517 (Aug 25, 2011)

Civil02 said:


> ALBin517 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a friend who majored in Surveying Engineering, became a PS, then became a PE in about 20 states.
> ...


I'm afraid I don't know that.

The whole deal was chronicled well on their website, especially in meeting minutes and such.

www.idfpr.com


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## MVD Engineer (Jun 4, 2012)

Civil02 said:


> So here is my frustrated story;
> 
> I applied for FE exam in Illinois in 2007 and also submitted degree evaluation through CPEES ( Foriegn B.S in Civil engineering and I also have M.S degree from Illinos). The illinois board reviewed my application and recommended that my B.S. degree is defecient 5.5 credit hours in math (beyond trignometry). I took 2 math classes (6 credit hours) at a local university and submitted the transcripts. The board reviewed again and approved me to take FE exam in 2009.
> 
> ...




Hey Civil02,

Just curious if you had any luck getting reciprocity in Illinois? I just passed PE - Civil from WI &amp; am looking to get reciprocity in IL and am in a similar situation. Did IL deny your application or did they defer the decision on it until you complete the deficiencies?

Thanks!


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## solomonb (Jun 4, 2012)

This is a tragic story of bureaucracy versus common sense. OK, they want you to get a lawyer, get one! Now, before you go out and spend megabucks, make DAMN sure that you have done all of the staff work and due diligence that you possibly can do-- this will not only help the lawyer, but also save you dollars that the lawyer will have to spend doing this work. The lawyer is going to charge handsomely for his/her time-- ok, results are what we are seeking here. I trust that you have ALL and I do mean all of your paperwork in order? If not, do so. Show where you petitioned in 2007 to take the FE examination, the Illinois board identified some academic deficiencies, you completed those deficiencies to the satisfaction of the board and were thus allowed to test. You successfully completed the FE examination and now are being denied licensure as a Professional Engineer in Illinois due to some buffoonery on the part of the board. I hope that you have retained copies of EVERYTHING related to this matter. You will need them as evidence as this matter proceeds through the judicial process. My recommendation is to put this all in a 3 ring binder, tabbed with each document in its own section. Make sure that you have all of the board correspondence as well as your correspondence included.

The kind of a lawyer that you need is an ADMINISTRATIVE LAW lawyer-- don't take any DUI/Divorce/Estate planning individual-- you need a specialist in Administrative Law-- that is what this matter revolves around. Go to Martindale Hubbel on the web-- they are a listing of lawyers--find one who specializes in Admin Law. Perhaps there is a good one in Springfield, the state capital, however, I suspect that there are good ones in Chicago as well.

You may wish to figure out how much you want to spend on this matter-- I can see $20,000---- that may seem like a lot, however, the lawyer is going to cost you at least $350/hour--of course, this may only be a matter where a couple of letters will solve the problem. Somehow, from what I have read here about the Illinois PE board, I don't think that will be the case, however, sure could be.

Hopefully, the board admitted to you, in writing that they goofed up in 2007--that admission of guilt/error should be significant in getting this matter reversed. I am not a lawyer, however, have had lots of legal training and legal experience. I don't know if this will be simple, however, my experience with administrative law is that this will NOT be a trivial matter. Again, figure out how much you want to spend on this before you begin-- it may be that the cost of doing it is not worth it. However, it may be that the cost of proving them wrong is priceless!

Good Luck!


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## solomonb (Jun 5, 2012)

Here is an interesting piece that is on the NCEES web site for June 2012 on foreign degree credential evaluation. As I read this, it appears that there are as many answers as there are jurisdictions. However, this piece is illustrative of the challenges that are being faced here.

Here is the link:  http://www.ncees.org/About_NCEES/News/News_Pages/June_2012_Licensure_Exchange.php


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## MVD Engineer (Jun 8, 2012)

Solomonb,

Thats a pretty good article! i'm glad that the state boards are now realizing the importance of having a uniform system of how to accept/deny applicants with foreign degrees, at least OK does. I'm stuck with a state board that wants me to take a basic level science course to prove that my Bachelor's in Engineering was equivalent to a US Bachelor's, this after NCEES considers my degree equivalent to a US degree. I have a Master's from a very well recognized US university, have @ 10 years of engineering work experience in the US and now have a PE license in WI! It's very frustrating to say the least!


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## MVD Engineer (Mar 11, 2013)

Just wanted to post an update to my situation before (as in the above post)

I finally have an IL PE license!!! I took CLEP tests for humanities to fulfill the deficiencies and then took a Physics class (Calc based physics with lab) at a community college and applied to the IL Board for license by endorsement and it worked!! So, for all those who have a foreign degree in Engineering and have been trying to get licensed in IL, there is hope!! Don't give up!!!.....instead work with NCEES and the State Board to fulfill the deficiencies and you will have success!!

Good Luck!


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## turen009 (Mar 27, 2013)

MVD Engineer, congrats!

I am in the similar situation with the Florida board. I have 4 credit hou shortage in the humanities, other than that I am fine. Can you please give me some suggestions about whoich humanities courses are easier to take for my rest 4 credits? TIA.


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## MVD Engineer (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks turen009!

Took me a while to figure out the TIA 

Anyway, as far as humanities is concerned, i took CLEP test to get credits for it. Following is the link where you can get information about CLEP- http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam. Select the ones you think are doable and then look for a community college near you that would give you credits for the CLEP tests if you were to take it through them. I took Humanities CLEP at a community college near me since it gave me 6 credits in one shot (God knows how i passed it  ) History and General sciences are the other ones i had considered.

Good luck!


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