# ITT ABET accredited?



## IE Steve

I recently graduated with a degree in IE from a large state school (ABET accredited) and I am currently in the masters program for IE.

My father was talking to me the other day saying he worked with a guy who had a son who was in a similar situation as me. But he went into the army for a few years after HS then got his "degree" from ITT in Electrical Engineering and got a job at Honeywell making $26/hour full time.

How can this be when he finished his EE program within 2-3 years, is it really that easy to find a high paying job with a ITT degree? Why did it take me 5 years to graduate compared to his 2-3 years to graduate?

My dad is riding me now and really wanting me to get a job thinking I can make much more. But jobs are not as easy to come by as he thinks with my limited work experience.

Any info would be appreciated. .


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## Freon

Is it a "Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering" degree, or an "Electrical Engineering Technology" degree? There is a big difference.

http://www.abet.org/engineering-vs-engineering-technology/


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## Supe

ITT is not ABET accredited. Their programs are all Technology programs, not Engineering programs, and even the term "technology" is pushing it compared to most 4 year colleges/universities.

The fact is, they will train you for a very specific function, which makes it easy to find a job doing that function. Consequently, it's going to be very easy to plateau in your career, with little room for advancement.

Also, in the grand scheme of things, $26/hr is not a high paying job.


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## IE Steve

Yeah he said something about testing electronics.

I just don't see how its possible to land such a high paying job straight out of a non-accredited college in your early 20's


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## snickerd3

Huge difference btwn the two. engineering vs engineering technology (which is what ITT would provide). People tend to leave off the technology part.

What supe said, the guy is basically a classroom trained grunt worker instead of on the job trained grunt worker. YOu might start out a little lower but have the potential to make more and rise within a company


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## wilheldp_PE

It's either a BSEET as others have mentioned, or it may even be an associates degree instead of a bachelors degree. Either way, it is absolutely not ABET accredited.


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## Judowolf PE

ITT does not have an BSEET, they have an associates in EET or a BS in electrical comunications Tech or something like that, they create tech workers, which if you're hands on and don't want to invest 5 years and do the registration thing, then it's a good option. I don't see how these people can go around telling folks they are engineers, it's like a LPN going around saying they are a doctor


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## IE Steve

Yes but if its not ABET accredited then why are employers accepting his degree and why is he getting such a high paying job at a young age?

Makes me wonder why I worked so hard to be an engineer if he has the same title with a high paying job


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## Supe

Because he's probably not doing any actual engineering work?


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## snickerd3

they are accepting it because short term that is all they need...manual labor they don't have to spend time training in the field. While $26/hr seems high now, he will likely still be making $26/hr yrs from now. If it is also a union job $26/hr doesn't really seem out of the ball park.


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## wilheldp_PE

IE Steve said:


> Yes but if its not ABET accredited then why are employers accepting his degree and why is he getting such a high paying job at a young age?
> 
> Makes me wonder why I worked so hard to be an engineer if he has the same title with a high paying job


That's really not an incredibly high paying job. It's roughly my starting salary out of engineering school...11 years ago.

If an electrical tech has the same title as jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong job...especially since your degree is in Industrial Engineering. I presume that the problem you are having is that entry-level IE jobs are hard to come by, and they tend to pay less than entry-level jobs in other engineering disciplines. I know that UPS in Louisville hires a ton of recent grad IEs, but they pay very little until you complete a 6 to 9 month training period. Electrical Engineers are usually towards the top of the engineering payscale, so I don't find it surprising that an electrical tech is starting at a higher salary than an IE.


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## Judowolf PE

engineering tech will have a decent starting pay like you said, but there is no real increase other than COA or management to go to afterward


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## IE Steve

wilheldp_PE said:


> IE Steve said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but if its not ABET accredited then why are employers accepting his degree and why is he getting such a high paying job at a young age?
> 
> Makes me wonder why I worked so hard to be an engineer if he has the same title with a high paying job
> 
> 
> 
> That's really not an incredibly high paying job. It's roughly my starting salary out of engineering school...11 years ago.
> 
> If an electrical tech has the same title as jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong job...especially since your degree is in Industrial Engineering. I presume that the problem you are having is that entry-level IE jobs are hard to come by, and they tend to pay less than entry-level jobs in other engineering disciplines. I know that UPS in Louisville hires a ton of recent grad IEs, but they pay very little until you complete a 6 to 9 month training period. Electrical Engineers are usually towards the top of the engineering payscale, so I don't find it surprising that an electrical tech is starting at a higher salary than an IE.
Click to expand...

So according to you a tech will out-earn an Industrial Engineer? Even in the long run?


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## Judowolf PE

^I don't believe that is what he is saying at all...he is saying that an "electrical engineering" tech may make a similar or higher starting salary than an IE, but their wages will stagnate and the engineer's salary should constantly increase as you gain experience and hopefully registration. EE's start out near the top of the pay scale and thus an EE tech will start a little higher as well


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## snickerd3

^this


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## wilheldp_PE

IE Steve said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IE Steve said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but if its not ABET accredited then why are employers accepting his degree and why is he getting such a high paying job at a young age?
> 
> Makes me wonder why I worked so hard to be an engineer if he has the same title with a high paying job
> 
> 
> 
> That's really not an incredibly high paying job. It's roughly my starting salary out of engineering school...11 years ago.
> 
> If an electrical tech has the same title as jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong job...especially since your degree is in Industrial Engineering. I presume that the problem you are having is that entry-level IE jobs are hard to come by, and they tend to pay less than entry-level jobs in other engineering disciplines. I know that UPS in Louisville hires a ton of recent grad IEs, but they pay very little until you complete a 6 to 9 month training period. Electrical Engineers are usually towards the top of the engineering payscale, so I don't find it surprising that an electrical tech is starting at a higher salary than an IE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So according to you a tech will out-earn an Industrial Engineer? Even in the long run?
Click to expand...

What Judo said. I'm not saying you made the wrong choice, and I'm not trying to validate your friend's decision either. I'm just saying that your earning potential will be fairly low for the first few years of your career. In the long run, your earning potential is quite a bit higher than an electrical tech. The reason IEs get the shaft a bit is that each company has their own way of going about things. They want to bring in new IEs, train them to think the way the company wants them to, then let them loose to improve the processes. If they can't break you of the processes of ex-employers, or you insist that what you learned in school is better than they way they want it done, they can cut you loose early on without having to invest much money in your starting salary. At least that is how the low starting IE salary at UPS was explained to me.

I have a Computer Engineering undergrad, have worked my entire career as an Electrical Engineer, and got my masters in Engineering Management (which was taught by the IE faculty). Also, my dad has been a professor of IE for 35+ years. Just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass here.


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## Judowolf PE

"Just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass here."

At least not for this reason...


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## wilheldp_PE

Touche.


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## solomonb

IIT is NOT an accredited degree program. In fact, they will tell you, if you read the real fine print, that "many of their classes will not earn transfer credit." What has been said is true-- they teach specific, technology related classes that are much more akin to a 2 year associate degree. I do not believe that they even have the caliber and quality of a rich technology degree.

Don't get discouraged about the starting salary--$26/hour is $52,000/year. I would expect that you are doing much better than that as an IE, right? As I recall, you were going to graduate school and getting a dual MSIE and MSEM degree? The salary thing can become quite frustrating at this point. Stay focused on task, get your dual master's degree, take the FE if you have not done so-- if I recall correctly, you told us that you had completed that?

The truth of the matter is that you have 2 more years of school before you hit the road and look for a good job. Yeah, you will take some guff between now and then, however, stay focused on task (gettting dual masters degrees), pass FE if not done so, then we'll help on finding you a great job!!

I was at the IIE conference in San Juan last week. Sadly, I worked on the PE examination and did not get to talk to many of the students attending. Those that I did were in grad school-- however, one of the department chairs from a well known school in the East told me that his grads were doing well.

I repeat, don't get discouraged. Tell Dad that you have a good plan, don't deviate from it. This will work out.


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## IE Steve

wilheldp_PE said:


> IE Steve said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IE Steve said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but if its not ABET accredited then why are employers accepting his degree and why is he getting such a high paying job at a young age?
> 
> Makes me wonder why I worked so hard to be an engineer if he has the same title with a high paying job
> 
> 
> 
> That's really not an incredibly high paying job. It's roughly my starting salary out of engineering school...11 years ago.
> 
> If an electrical tech has the same title as jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong job...especially since your degree is in Industrial Engineering. I presume that the problem you are having is that entry-level IE jobs are hard to come by, and they tend to pay less than entry-level jobs in other engineering disciplines. I know that UPS in Louisville hires a ton of recent grad IEs, but they pay very little until you complete a 6 to 9 month training period. Electrical Engineers are usually towards the top of the engineering payscale, so I don't find it surprising that an electrical tech is starting at a higher salary than an IE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So according to you a tech will out-earn an Industrial Engineer? Even in the long run?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What Judo said. I'm not saying you made the wrong choice, and I'm not trying to validate your friend's decision either. I'm just saying that your earning potential will be fairly low for the first few years of your career. In the long run, your earning potential is quite a bit higher than an electrical tech. The reason IEs get the shaft a bit is that each company has their own way of going about things. They want to bring in new IEs, train them to think the way the company wants them to, then let them loose to improve the processes. If they can't break you of the processes of ex-employers, or you insist that what you learned in school is better than they way they want it done, they can cut you loose early on without having to invest much money in your starting salary. At least that is how the low starting IE salary at UPS was explained to me.
> 
> I have a Computer Engineering undergrad, have worked my entire career as an Electrical Engineer, and got my masters in Engineering Management (which was taught by the IE faculty). Also, my dad has been a professor of IE for 35+ years. Just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass here.
Click to expand...

Yes it make since, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate the input



solomonb said:


> IIT is NOT an accredited degree program. In fact, they will tell you, if you read the real fine print, that "many of their classes will not earn transfer credit." What has been said is true-- they teach specific, technology related classes that are much more akin to a 2 year associate degree. I do not believe that they even have the caliber and quality of a rich technology degree.
> 
> Don't get discouraged about the starting salary--$26/hour is $52,000/year. I would expect that you are doing much better than that as an IE, right? As I recall, you were going to graduate school and getting a dual MSIE and MSEM degree? The salary thing can become quite frustrating at this point. Stay focused on task, get your dual master's degree, take the FE if you have not done so-- if I recall correctly, you told us that you had completed that?
> 
> The truth of the matter is that you have 2 more years of school before you hit the road and look for a good job. Yeah, you will take some guff between now and then, however, stay focused on task (gettting dual masters degrees), pass FE if not done so, then we'll help on finding you a great job!!
> 
> I was at the IIE conference in San Juan last week. Sadly, I worked on the PE examination and did not get to talk to many of the students attending. Those that I did were in grad school-- however, one of the department chairs from a well known school in the East told me that his grads were doing well.
> 
> I repeat, don't get discouraged. Tell Dad that you have a good plan, don't deviate from it. This will work out.


Great memory! Yes dual masters which will take around 2 more years to complete. I'm preparing to sit for the FE this October and the material doesn't look too bad. I'm looking into either full time work or internships come early November

As always, thanks for the great input I appreciate it. I'm taking all the advise you give me and running with it!

Also thanks to everyone else who replied in this thread!


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## ikesdsu

I agree with the consensus here too. This was a big sticking point at the college I went to. There the degree was Manufacturing Engineering Technology. While the college is ABET accredited and the Manufacturing Engineering Technology degree was a bachelors of science degree, it is not an engineering degree, and the ITT tech degree isn't even a bachelors degree at that. Don't get me wrong there isn't anything wrong with these degrees but you aren't an Engineer.

Here is what I have seen since I have friends that saw the MET program and thought this is a way easier program and I am still and Engineer, (even though they really aren't). Their starting pay was about the same between an engineer and the tech job, and in some cases higher. But now that we have been out of school for 10+ years the engineers pay have jumped significantly, probably due to experience, or becoming managers, but the tech jobs have hardly changed.

You have to remember even though it is hard to see now, in the engineering field experience is everything and until you get that experience your pay is lower, but as soon as you do your pay jumps quickly.


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## Judowolf PE

when your in your teens and early 20's that 50K job looks amazing and obtaining it is much easier, but when you're 35 or 40 and that tech guy is making 60K and you're making 90K, who will be further ahead?


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## Dexman PE PMP




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## Road Guy

and all the guys in sales or marketing that have junk degrees with big salaries laugh at all the Engineering Degrees, ET Degrees, ITT certificates, etc all the way to the bank....


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## solomonb

IE Steve-- I would try hard for an internship. That will help buttress your resume and not interfere with grad school. Full time work MAY interfere with grad school--- if you have the good fortune of going to graduate school, you want to get the most out of it that you can.

I clearly recognize the need for money-- things are tough today-- however, really take advantage of all that graduate school has to offer--the payback is awesome. Hit the FE hard-- get that done-- I do recall that you told us that you had not yet taken it.

I am working on a series of articles for the IE magazine addressing professional registration issues. We have developed the framework and are hitting it hard with tools to help you get licensed. Actually, these articles apply to any discipline-- kind of a different approach to getting an individual motivated to get licensed.

Stay focused--this will work.


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## hjg7715

Just to concur with a lot that has already been said, I think it's important for all recent graduates and especially young adults to keep sight of long term professional growth and goals and not the instant rewards or gratification that you may get from taking other routes or shortcuts. And not to say trade schools or BS technology degrees are shortcuts because those types of degrees with additional education and/or specific professional experience are often viewed as valuable or even more valuable in some instances than engineering degrees, but you really have to focus on your educational and professional development and not so much others. I would STRONGLY advise you to consider graduate school if you're not finding much luck in the job market. I advised my brother who graduated last year with a BS in Mechanical Engineering to go to grad school and maybe within a year or two, the job market would approve. Well, he took my advise and not only did he go to graduate school, he found a fellowship that paid for his graduate school and he's already got a job lined up after he finishes in July that's paying him about 15K more than most of his peers that graduated with him from undergrad and chose to go straight into the workforce.


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## Sean 858

So... I'd like to shed some light on this topic since there is a misconception about ITT Tech grads.

- Yes, ITT Tech has been shut down as of 2016.

- Yes, they offer engineering technology degrees

- Yes, it's accreditation was not on par with the likes of MIT, UCSD, Harvard, etc...

- Yes, I graduated from ITT tech in 2004 with an electrical engineering technology degree from a 3 year program.

- Yes. I make a six figure income.

- Yes, I am an engineer. My official title is Project Engineer. I lead engineering teams on projects and act as the bridge between the programs office and engineering team. I started out as an engineering technician during my second year of school. Promoted to an electrical engineer soon after graduation. Before I graduated I applied to many other companies and was turned down due to my degree being from ITT. Hiring managers were not shy to tell me this.

- No. I have no other degrees. However I will be receiving my project management certificate and PMP certificate to supplement my current skills and credentials.

- Yes. I work with MANY other engineers who graduated from the same program I did (different class) and are Electrical Engineers, Test Engineers (LabView), Designers, Program Managers, Software engineers, Managers of different departments, Engineering Directors, projects engineers, project managers, I can go on and on and on.

- Yes, I participated in being part of a commercial for ITT Tech

- Yes i work for a privately owned company who is well known in the unmanned aircraft industry who is winning contracts while competing with the likes of Boeing, Northrup Grumman, L3, etc...

- Yes, I joined ITT Tech lobbyist in Washington DC back in the mid 2000's to stop a bill from passing that would not allow federal money to be used for private schools (Devry, ITT Tech, Coleman College, any college that was not part of the public school system like UCLA, UCSD, UND, etc...) I visited the offices of Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Bilbray, Duncan. Feinstein and Boxer turned us away without blinking an eye only after they agreed to meet with us in the lobby for discussions instead of in their office. Bilbray and Duncan met with us in their office and vowed to fight this bill.

- Yes. Shutting down ITT Tech is the first step to shutting down all other non-publicly funded colleges. I'm talking from my experience in DC.

- NO. I am not brainwashed. I am intelligent and can think for myself. 

ITT Tech gave me an environment that worked for my personality. Their instructors were working individuals in the field of engineering who taught part time. I am still dumb founded that ITT tech grads are placed in a box with the label "Not qualified due to graduating from ITT Tech" I work along side some of the brightest engineers from all sorts of colleges. I also work along side some of the most unqualified people... I wont call out the school they graduated from because the point of this post is to steer us away from labeling people based on the school they graduated from.

My point is get to know the individual. Does his resume look good but you are reluctant to interview because the words ITT Tech is on his her resume? Oh stop it with the profiling and you'll be surprised! 

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I hope it sheds some light on what you can get out of an ITT Tech grad whether it be working with you or for you.


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## kevo_55

????

Salty?


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## snickerd3

opcorn:


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## Road Guy

Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ken PE 3.1

Ok, but can you transfer you degree to another school to continue your education or sit for the FE or PE?


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## wilheldp_PE

He can sit for the PE under the experience exemption, but it takes 10+ years instead of 4.


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## Maji

Sean 858 said:


> ...
> 
> - Yes, I am an engineer. My official title is Project Engineer...


Can you call yourself an "Engineer" in front of others and on your business card? I don't know the rules, but in many states it maybe a protected title. 



I agree with your assertion about knowing a person as in individual is more important than the college/diploma mill he/she attended. However, I question the legality of posing yourself as an engineer if it a protected title in your state. Please check the legality so that you and your organization can stay out of trouble.


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## Road Guy




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## Ken PE 3.1

Road Guy said:


>


That is highly offensive.

No way Cleveland puts up 14 points.


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## jcochranlv

First, Thank you for the info that in this thread it has helped me a lot.

       When I got out of the military I wanted to be an Engineer, so I looked around and went to ITT thinking that I would graduate and get to work in the field I wanted. The whole time I went there I was told that I was in the engineering program and I would be an Engineer. After graduation reality hit me in the face when I found out that my "degree" was useless. When I contacted ITT about the problem they suggested I go back to school and get my masters.....which I tried but my credits are useless too. I thankfully managed to get a job as a electronics technician so, I am ahead of most graduates. So here I sit G.I. Bill gone, a useless degree and stuck.

      I am posting for two reasons;

     1. I understand your opinions about ITT grads, and don't disagree in most cases. But, for people like me that went there legitimately thinking they were going to be something just to find out they weren't sucks bad. I know personally I worked two jobs and went to school, I put in the effort with barely anything to show. Try at least not to put people down or belittle them, they are in a hard enough spot as it is, and are just trying to make something out of the s%!t sandwich they were given.

     2. What can I do now, I am going back to school....again....yay freshman year......again. I don't think I have any legal recourse so im not sure where to go from here. I am working in engineering....as a technician... any suggestions?


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