# Math - argh!



## Katiebug (Feb 21, 2008)

Reviewing mathematics in the EIT Reference Manual is making me want to cry. I'm a Mechanical whose day-to-day work focuses mainly on machine design, mechanics, materials, manufacturing, and systems.

I remember all of the algebra and calculus; that's not my problem. It's linear algebra and vectors and all of that. Shamefully, once I "learned" those topics, I decided it was more efficient to let my trusty graphing calculator do the work for me. I haven't had to find a determinant on my own since about 2001, and I'm _very_ rusty. It's very slow going, too - I like that the EIT book has so many problems because I need the practice, but it's taking me forever to get through a chapter.

I'm thinking I'll be a poster child for why you _should_ take this exam right out of college. I paged through the FERM and discovered that about half the sections were a piece of cake (statics &amp; dynamics, mechanics of materials, etc.). Others were like reading a foreign language. At least I remember the basics of thermo and fluids - but E&amp;M and chemistry? Not a chance.

Now I'm debating if I should do the ME depth in the PM rather than the general, as I'd planned...

I've ordered the NCEES sample exams. I'll be taking the FE in October, so I at least have a while to study. My plan is to go through the FERM once, take a sample exam, then go through the FERM again more quickly as test day approaches.


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## roadwreck (Feb 21, 2008)

I can believe it. A guy here in the office was studying for his FE while I was studying for my PE. He would ask me for help with some of his questions, all I could do most of the time was stare are the page blankly. He'd make some smart remark like "You should know this stuff, you passed this exam already". All I know is that I was so glad I was taking the PE and not relearning all that material. Good luck, you have my sympathies. 

I'll advocate to anyone in school whether they think they need to take the FE or not for their profession of choice that it's best to just go ahead and take it while your still in school, get it out of the way, and you won't have to worry about it a few years down the road if you change careers. It's sooooooo much easier when all that material is fresh in your mind.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 21, 2008)

^ I took the FE a year out of college and I still had to teach myself 1/3 of the topics on that exam.

I don't remember any of that stuff now. We got a guy here with a 2 year degree who wants to go back for a 4 year degree. He's taking a number of the pre-reqs at the local community college. He'd come ask me these calculus and statistics questions and I had no clue how to do them.


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## roadwreck (Feb 21, 2008)

VTEnviro said:


> ^ I took the FE a year out of college and I still had to teach myself 1/3 of the topics on that exam.


I was fortunate enough to take it my last semester of college. That was a very smart move on my part (although at the time I didn't enjoy having another test to worry about). I studied for a grand total of a week. I may have put in 10-15 hours of study time during that week. After seeing my co-worker study for 3+ months and still not pass last October I am so glad I took the FE while I was still in school.


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## IlPadrino (Feb 21, 2008)

I took the EIT a few months before I graduated RPI in 1994. I had no idea what a PE really was but it seemed like everyone was taking the EIT, so I figured why not. I didn't do anything but apply for the exam and show up on test day (probably with a hangover!). I figured there was no sense in raising the bar (studying!) if I could already limbo underneath... I think I got an 80-something and happy. My girlfriend took the same path, got a 70, and was ecstatic.

Bottom line: Take the damn FE test just before you graduate. Study if you want but don't use lack of preparation as an excuse not to take the test.


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## Capt Worley PE (Feb 21, 2008)

I took the EIT last semester of college. Back then (1988), there was a huge yellow EIT reference manual. I broke it out of the plastic the night before and familiarized myself with where everything was. That was a dumb move in retrospect, but I pulled it off.

I'm glad I took it back then.


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## Flyer_PE (Feb 21, 2008)

^^I did the exact same thing in the fall of '89. I put subject tabs on the sections in the book the night before the exam and then went to sleep early. I'm just glad I had an instructor that promoted taking the test while still in college.


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## Katiebug (Feb 21, 2008)

The sad thing is, it's not HARD material. I keep thinking, "I used to know this!" Some areas are just coming back to me much easier than others. I'm glad I started with math because I think that's where I have the most to review and relearn, and it makes up a pretty big chunk of the exam.

I'm just doing a lot of looking back at the examples in the book or looking at the solutions manual to see how the problem was approached. I have some old Schaum's Outlines that I may pull out for additional practice. I need to get back to the point of seeing a problem and knowing how to work it without needing to page back through the examples in the chapter.

I'm also trying to only use the NCEES reference book to solve things when I get stuck...at least it's helping me learn where to find information.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 21, 2008)

Captain Worley PE said:


> I took the EIT last semester of college. Back then (1988), there was a huge yellow EIT reference manual. I broke it out of the plastic the night before and familiarized myself with where everything was. That was a dumb move in retrospect, but I pulled it off.
> I'm glad I took it back then.






IFR_Pilot said:


> ^^I did the exact same thing in the fall of '89. I put subject tabs on the sections in the book the night before the exam and then went to sleep early. I'm just glad I had an instructor that promoted taking the test while still in college.



In '88 and '89 I was probably gearing up for a big spelling or math test.


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## Capt Worley PE (Feb 21, 2008)

^ WHIPPERSNAPPER!!!


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2008)

Katiebug said:


> Reviewing mathematics in the EIT Reference Manual is making me want to cry.


FWIW - I think the math portion of the exam tends to be a bug-a-boo (no pun intended) for most engineers, even engineers who take the FE in thier senior year of college.

I wouldn't get too worked up over the time it is taking to re-familiarize yourself with those problems.



Katiebug said:


> I haven't had to find a determinant on my own since about 2001, and I'm _very_ rusty.


I was in a similar situation when I initially started to prepare for the Civil PE/Env Depth Exam. My BS degree is in Env Engineering - a significant portion of my classes dealing with wastewater treatment. However, I have not had to deal with wastewater treatment since I have been working - I am primarily involved with hazardous waste and remedation projects. Even though I was THOROUGHLY knowledgeable about how to solve wastewater treatment problems in college - eight years later was a completely different story. I was shocked at how very little I could recall without extensive study.

As we progress and learn new things or become specialists in some areas we forget about other areas. It just happens.



Katiebug said:


> Now I'm debating if I should do the ME depth in the PM rather than the general, as I'd planned...


At this point in time I wouldn't get overly concerned with which PM subject you will select. I would focus on getting acclimated to using the FERM and working through the subject material.

When I took the FE sooo many years ago, it was the same exam for everyone AM and PM - there was no such thing as selecting a PM subject. I think the mental anguish you could potential get yourself into trying to second-guess or double-guess what your proficiency will be in three to four months isn't worth it.

Right now you are doing it RIGHT - you have started early and sought assistance!  Keep up the good work! :thumbs:

JR


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## SSmith (Feb 21, 2008)

I was working a piece of analysis today with my boss, and told him (indirectly) that 9*6=48. Since I got my PE last October, he was quick to throw back the kwip, "I guess that wasnt on the exam, was it?"

Its almost embarrassing what I use Excel to work these days.


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## Katiebug (Feb 21, 2008)

jregieng said:


> At this point in time I wouldn't get overly concerned with which PM subject you will select. I would focus on getting acclimated to using the FERM and working through the subject material.
> When I took the FE sooo many years ago, it was the same exam for everyone AM and PM - there was no such thing as selecting a PM subject. I think the mental anguish you could potential get yourself into trying to second-guess or double-guess what your proficiency will be in three to four months isn't worth it.
> 
> Right now you are doing it RIGHT - you have started early and sought assistance!  Keep up the good work! :thumbs:
> ...


That's really good advice. I think if I can power through this math nightmare, I'll worry a lot less about the rest of the test. I _am_ pretty solid on a lot of the subject areas and none of my weak areas are worrying me like math is. At least I have about 8 months to get all my preparation done - I'm glad I started early. I think a part of my problem is having to break myself of the habit of running to the graphing calculator to do anything more challenging than 2+2! I've gotten so used to letting that thing do the heavy lifting and now I need to re-engage the brain.



SSmith said:


> Its almost embarrassing what I use Excel to work these days.


Excel, Mathcad, and my TI-89 do all of my math for me these days - even simple arithmetic. It's really kind of sad.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 22, 2008)

Katiebug said:


> Excel, Mathcad, and my TI-89 do all of my math for me these days - even simple arithmetic. It's really kind of sad.


Yes, but you could do it manually if you had to. My cousin is a high school math teacher and the kids today can't do it without the aide of calculator. She has tried to teach something as simple as how to balance a checkbook and they had absolutely no clue.


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## Katiebug (Feb 22, 2008)

snickerd3 said:


> Yes, but you could do it manually if you had to. My cousin is a high school math teacher and the kids today can't do it without the aide of calculator. She has tried to teach something as simple as how to balance a checkbook and they had absolutely no clue.


True, I could do it manually. My father in law is a high school math teacher, and he still brings sliderules in for the kids to use! They think it's archaic, but it demonstrates to them that it's possible to do math without running to the calculator for everything.

They start children with graphing calculators in ELEMENTARY school now. I didn't have a graphing calculator until I was a junior in high school. Heck, they didn't even let us use calculators until Algebra I in 8th grade.


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## EM_PS (Feb 23, 2008)

Sounds like alot of the things you're really comfortable with are my 'scary monster in the closet' material in the FERM. In my soon to be wrapped up degree, we were force fed linear algebra thru almost all of our upperlevel classes (least squares adjustments, coordinate transformations, statistical analyses, ad naseum).

So i would salivate being given matrix or vector calc / operation over say, a statics or kinematics problem. I had to give my TI86 the heave-ho Fall of '06 so i could gain that much operational time with one of the approved calculators. It worked, i got the casio 115es. . . which was subsequently banned during testing year '07, only to be reallowed for testing year '08 (at least not specifically disallowed). It was a gamble i guess, but i practically know how to run that thing blindfolded, and fortunately it has vector and matrix capability (up to 3x3). I also have the 115ms as the backup, which i used thruout 2007. Funny how things come around full-circle.

Now just get me my degree and get me to freakin' October! (April will be FS)


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## Katiebug (Mar 6, 2008)

Math is going easier now. I plowed through the linear algebra stuff - I got a Schaum's outline and that helped a lot. Algebra, trig, and calculus are all fine. I had to get momentum at the beginning there.

I bought the Casio fx-115es and am so pleased with it. I wanted to make sure I could do the problems on my own, but I think the matrix and vector capabilities will come in handy on the exam, even if only to check my work or to plow through easy problems. I have a TI (from the approved list) as a backup but I honestly prefer the Casio now that I've been using it, and it seems to have quite a bit more functionality than the TI.

I think the hardest part was just getting started and into a routine of studying and doing problems. I don't learn well if I don't do a bunch of problems, so having the EIT Reference Manual available has helped, even though I question if the difficulty of some of the questions is beyond what the test will require.


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## Environmental_Guy (Mar 6, 2008)

Katiebug said:


> Math is going easier now. I plowed through the linear algebra stuff - I got a Schaum's outline and that helped a lot. Algebra, trig, and calculus are all fine. I had to get momentum at the beginning there.


I'm in the same boat as you, taking the Cali FE in October. I feel like I remember nothing, hopefully my brain will re-adjust soon.

Been out of school 5 years, and I'm chugging my way through a calc review book right now. Besides the Schaum book you mentioned for LA, are there any other books you are using to do in-depth review, or are you going to jump into the FERM and use those chapters?

Thanks and good luck to us!


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## Natee (Mar 11, 2008)

Study the FERM by Lindeburg it prepares you very well for the math in the morning and afternoon. The actual exam is actually a lot easier than the practice problems.


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## k2keylargo (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm taking the FE in April - 25 days! I graduated BSEE 30 years ago, and most every topic is relearning for me, although math, statics and the easy parts of electrical and dynamics came back relatively easy. I say relatively because I had to learn for the first time all of Thermo, most of dynamics, fluids and mechanics of materials :smileyballs: It has been hell, I say. I hope that I can remember all of this for the exam. I plan to take a week off work just before the test and just work problems for 12 hrs. each day if I can.


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## mudpuppy (Mar 16, 2008)

^^^Don't kill yourself before the exam, key. Eight hours of exam plus lunch is grueling, both mentally and physically. You need to be sure you're both mentally *and physically* prepared. I was not prepared for the grueling nature of these tests when I took the FE and I almost completely ran out of steam 7 hours into it. When I took the PE at least I knew what I was getting into, but I still put my head down for a rest during the afternoon portion.

Unless you're one of those annoying people with an inexhaustable supply of energy, several 12 hours days of cramming beforehand is probably not going to put you in the place you need to be for exam day. It doesn't matter how much you studied if you can't physically make it through the test. Many people suggest that you take the couple days before the exam off with no studying--just relax and do something you enjoy. Also eat well and get plenty of sleep.

I don't envy the position you're in being so long out of school, but it sounds like you've got it under control.


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## k2keylargo (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks mudpuppy. I do plan to not study the day before - just take the day off, go get a hotel in Miami close to the exam site, abstain from alcohol or sex the night before and just chill out.


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## maryannette (Mar 16, 2008)

k2keylargo said:


> ... abstain from alcohol or sex the night before and just chill out.


I don't recall ever thinking about abstaining from sex in preparation for the exam. Maybe that's why it took me so many times.


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## benbo (Mar 16, 2008)

k2keylargo said:


> Thanks mudpuppy. I do plan to not study the day before - just take the day off, go get a hotel in Miami close to the exam site, abstain from alcohol or sex the night before and just chill out.


Please abstain from sex during the exam as well. I know there's nothing specifically in the rules, but probably a good idea.


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## k2keylargo (Apr 3, 2008)

But sex DURING the exam - you might get on a few talk shows, maybe make enough money to forget engineering, at least get on Yahoo Odd News, ok gotta get back to beams and columns.......


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