# CALCULATORS



## DVINNY (May 1, 2006)

I have an idea. I think that TI-86's and HP's should be allowed in the exam.

If NCEES is worried about sneaking in or out information, then they can CLEAR the calculator as you come in, and clear it again as you leave. I would pay extra for the exam fee so that they could hire a proctor to do just that.

If I would have had my TI-86 for that exam, I wouldn't be feeling nervous at all about my results. I hate the fact that I've used a certain calculator for 10 years, know it in and out, and am not allowed to use it. That bites.


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## Road Guy (May 1, 2006)

totally agree, I hated not to be able to use my HP48SX, Supposidly its not what you bring in, but what you might take out.

I used the HP33S and it took me a while to get used to it, even had to look up a few things in the manual during the exam


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## JoeysVee (May 1, 2006)

I think they had too many instructions and checks as it is. I was in that room for 11 hours including instructions, lunch and testing. Clearing everyones calculator would just add to that.

I actually think this is the fairest way. Nobody has the Chetech (sp?) equations as an advantage so your all on equal footing.

But what do I know?


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## Road Guy (May 1, 2006)

i started to buy the calculator that had all the forumulas plugged into it already (it was an extra $100) but after taking the test I dont think I would have used them that much, on my HP48 the biggest thing I would have liked was the unit conversions and the larger screen to be able to keep #'s on the screen as you work the problems.

also having "finance" type applications would have been nice as well


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 1, 2006)

I used a Casio fx-115MS I think it was called.

I had a Casio scientific calculator in high school I used before I got into the TI graphing calculators. The button layout and logic behind the commands on the Casio I bought was similar to the old one I had, so it was a natural fit quick.


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## petergibbons (Jun 29, 2006)

I had to resurrect this thread.  I can't say enough good things about the TI-89. I get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I think about it.


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## redrum (Jun 29, 2006)

HP48 &gt; All others


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 29, 2006)

The TI-89 is a wonderful piece of machinery. :bow:


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## moodyj2000 (Jun 29, 2006)

I have a HP-49 (pos!) and a TI-92 (I love it) that I used to use on a daily basis. I took the plain old TI-30XA into the exam and passed and now that is my favorite calculator. I was thinking of having in gold plated and framed.

Back when I took the FE, a long while back, I used the TI-92 right up until the proctor came around and confiscated it. I was pissed, not because I was using it for anything special, but because it was what I was comfortable with. I am no egghead and had not taken the time to program the damn thing. I just liked the layout and the ability to scroll back through previous equations. The reason given was that it had a QWERTY keyboard on it. They were concerned that I was going to type the test in and walk out. The funny thing is that when I looked around the room everyone had HP-48's and TI-89's, both of which had the capability to type in strings of information and store it. This was before the great calculator ban and I new then it was only a matter of time before they figured it out and banned all of them.

As soon as they figure out someone could modify a TI-30 case to contain a camera everyone still needing to take the exam better get familiar with two words, "Slide Rule."


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## petergibbons (Jun 30, 2006)

I like the "pretty print" function of the TI-89 where all of the equations that you type in look like they are right out of a textbook so there is no question that you typed the equation in correctly. I also like it's ability to solve simultaneous equations, do diff. equations, and it's equation solver. The thing saved me on the math portion of the FE. Going from a TI-36x to a TI-89 was like going from a Chevette to a Cadillac for me.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 30, 2006)

^ That is why I always liked using MathCAD on my assignments in grad school.

You just plug things in symbolically and can look at it to make sure its right.

Its so much better than

d/dx(x^2+4*x-3),1,3


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## Road Guy (Jun 30, 2006)

my biggest bief with the calculator is with the HP 48's I could see 4 lines of "data" and keep/swap, stuff without hitting "store" "recall" all the time.

I have used an HP with RPN since 1992 so I used the HP 33 for the exam, its close, but no cigar. Using a calculator without RPN is like writing left handed to me.

But they should let "engineers" use the calculator they are familiar with. and penalize severly those cought typing stuff in during the test. Not the shotgun mentality where we penalize the 99% to make up for the lack of disciplining the 1% who are selling exam info to book publishers after the exam...


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## DrFranz (Jun 30, 2006)

I have used the HP 48 since 1993, but for the test, I went to WalMart and got the cassio calc 1 day before the exam... so I could return it that saturday  didn't feel like having a calc I was never going to use and it worked fine, since all calc's have the same principles... I personally have no problem with using the simplest calc, since sometimes in the field we even have to do the calculations by hand...

my 2 cents


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jun 30, 2006)

> But they should let "engineers" use the calculator they are familiar with. and penalize severly those cought typing stuff in during the test. Not the shotgun mentality where we penalize the 99% to make up for the lack of disciplining the 1% who are selling exam info to book publishers after the exam...


How many people took the exam with you? And how many proctors? I thought I heard a lot of complaining about proctors hovering over people during the exam. I would think it would be extremely difficult to "catch" someone entering data into their calculators. Plus, with wireless technology, you just got to have some restraints.

Wouldn't surprise me if the calculator policy gets tougher before it gets easier. I expect before long, they'll just supply the calculator with the exam and everyone will have to use the same one.

But you are right about punishing everyone for the transgressions of the few. We're going through that right now in our neighborhood. We get a lot of through-traffic and speeders so they put in a bunch of stop signs. What a joke! The only people that are actually stopping are the ones that live in the neighborhood and weren't speeding to begin with!


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## cdhanners (Jun 30, 2006)

What the hell is d/dx......? Never heard of that. :suicide:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 30, 2006)

^ Haha, I just got nailed speeding when I was on vacation last month. The Sheriff's Dept much get rich off tourists like me.

As for the supplied calculator policy, it doesn't seem like a stretch. Although they would have to let people know in advance what calculator they would supply, so examinees could get familiar with it.


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## Road Guy (Jun 30, 2006)

I wonder if NCEES asked HP &amp; TI to make a version of the HP48 or TI-89's that would function the same but would not allow "typing" of text, if they would be resposnive to that request?

I dont think it would have been my saving grace, but would be nice


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## DVINNY (Jun 30, 2006)

> Wouldn't surprise me if the calculator policy gets tougher before it gets easier.  I expect before long, they'll just supply the calculator with the exam and everyone will have to use the same one.


I think this would be a great idea to be quite honest, with the exception of using the same one.

I'd pay an extra $100 for exam fee, if they will let me use a TI-86 that they provide.

Or, my idea is that they let you "check in" early, and they have knowledgable proctors who would ERASE your calculator when you come into the room, and then again when you leave. To assure nothing is comprimised.

But thinking of it. They could keep the ZERO ELECTRONICS allowed policy, and provide various types of calculators to the test takers.

It would be easy to put a line on the application that states "CIRCLE THE CALCULATOR YOU WILL USE ON THE EXAM" then have a choice of the popular ones. That way, the board knows going into exam day, how many they need.

Like I said, I'd be willing to pay for the damn thing. Just let me use it.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 30, 2006)

> What the hell is d/dx......? Never heard of that. :suicide:


Differential calculus my friend. I loved diff calc. Inegral calc sucked pig balls.


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## cdhanners (Jun 30, 2006)

VTEnviro, it was intended as a joke. I three calculas courses, two courses in ODE and one course in PDE. This was followed up by a course in which includes Fourier and LaPlace series and transforms, Bessell Functions, and some advanced Matrices.

ODE = Ordinary Differential Equation

PDE = Partial Differential Equation

Sounds fun dosen't it. I used to feel like Good Will Hunting.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jun 30, 2006)

Got it. Sorry, another case of internet humor translating poorly.

I took 3 semesters of calc, and 1 of ODE.

Then in grad school I took a numeric methods class, which was pretty awesome. It's the long hand way behind all the math that Excel and MathCAD uses.

If you want to get into PDE and Fourier, or LaPlace stuff, ask my fiance. She's getting a PhD in medical imaging, and apparently that shit is important. :dunno:


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## cdhanners (Jun 30, 2006)

Ya my degree is pretty strange. I the subject list is pretty long. I really enjoyed the math in school, and even contemplated math as a profession. No work though. If your intrested check out a book Ttitles "Advanced Engineering Mathematics" it is about the derivation of several equations we use everyday. Pretty intresting stuff.


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## OR_CE (Jul 4, 2006)

It's interesting to read the different comments on the calculator policy. One important consideration is that the test must be adjusted to the calculator policy. Lower functioning calculators = less difficult equations on test.

I purchased an HP33s for the exam and started using it for everything about six months prior to the exam. I found that I had to take my trusty old 48gx home in order to avoid relapses while at work.

I also programed tons of curve equations into the calculator but never even used them on the exam. IMHO you could easily complete the CE Trans exam with a basic $9 calculator (assuming you have y^x capability).

My 2 cents


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## Timmy! (Jul 4, 2006)

I think it sucks that the HP48 got banned. I have been using HP calculators since the introduction of the HP-35 back in 1973 [$400 bucks, in 1973 dollars...it came with the revolutionary y^x and xth root of y keys!].

I still have two HP48s, including the one that got me through EE at Ohio U. I had to buy that stupid HP33 for the EE professional exam last April, and it sucks. A great leap backwards by HP.

If I get permission to take the Civil PE exam next Spring, I'm bring a couple of slide rules with me, just to whack out the proctors.

Which begs the question...how many of you were taught how to extract the square root of a number by hand with pencil and paper? No logarithms allowed!

"Kickin' it old school"...Timmy!


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## Hill William (Jul 5, 2006)

I didnt think the calculator I could use or not use hurt me on the exam. I dont think there were really any functions that my TI-86 had that my 33s didnt have that I was like, "damn I cant do this now". However, I have a couple of old cheap calcs. that I use in the field that I am very used to. Not really a big deal, but I did a lot of hitting what used to be enter and accidentally hitting +. I used my 33s throughout my studying so I got over that. If anything, they should tell you what calcs. you can't use instead of what you can.


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## DVINNY (Jul 5, 2006)

The familiarity that comes with my TI-86 is what I would like to have during the exam. And the unit conversion properties of the calculator.

I think I either messed up the answers on my scan tron sheet or I feel for the wrong units on the answers. I believe I failed for one of those reasons, and if I had my TI-86 it would not have been because of units.

I had 'marked' problems that I felt I got easily, and they would have been enough to pass. Since I didn't pass, I'll assume I missed those questions that I felt I knew.

I know it's partially my fault because of lack of preparation, and I bought a TI-36X about 3 weeks before the exam. I will be VERY familiar with that calc by October. Thats for sure.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 5, 2006)

> I can guaruntee you that the HP 32SII is less capable than the HP 33S for stealing exam questions, but yet, it is not allowed????


How many people were in the room with you taking the exam? 200? 300? Can you imagine if everyone of them had a different calculator that "is less capable than the HP 33S" and felt like they should be able to use it? Having the proctors check each calculator to ensure it was ok would take all day! Especially when the proctors are not techincal people.

I don't like the calculator policy either. You should be able to use a calculator that you are used to. It's a shame that some people feel the need to cheat and it results in penalizing everyone else. That being said, I don't know what else can be done. Seems to be about as fair as you can be........


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 5, 2006)

I think it really sucks too. I'd love to use my TI-89. At least NCEES posts well in advance what is allowed on the test.


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## Road Guy (Jul 5, 2006)

I would think if we publicily banned, criminally charged, made an example out of the people from the profession who were caught selling exam questions, or distributing them after the fact ,that would be enough of a deterent. but I guess not.

I have put my 48 away for another 4 months...


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 5, 2006)

What would you have them charged with?

I can see someone being caught cheating/violating rules being banned from taking the test again for some period of time. I've read about this happening.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 5, 2006)

> Mike in Gastonia, I agree it is about as fair as it can be.  I am just disgruntled because I failed, and I am looking for a scapegoat other than myself, so the natural impulse is to blame the calculator policy, my boss (for making me work when i would prefer to study), and my family (for making me spend time with them rather than study).  Bottom line is that I just need to accept the fact that I can't change what I can't change and focus on improving my study skills.
> But damn it sure is nice to vent.... my wife issued a cease and desist order against me venting to her.


No problems.... We'll just treat you like a woman. We'll listen to you but not try to fix the problem.


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## DrFranz (Jul 5, 2006)

> > Mike in Gastonia, I agree it is about as fair as it can be.? I am just disgruntled because I failed, and I am looking for a scapegoat other than myself, so the natural impulse is to blame the calculator policy, my boss (for making me work when i would prefer to study), and my family (for making me spend time with them rather than study).? Bottom line is that I just need to accept the fact that I can't change what I can't change and focus on improving my study skills.
> > But damn it sure is nice to vent.... my wife issued a cease and desist order against me venting to her.
> 
> 
> No problems.... We'll just treat you like a woman. We'll listen to you but not try to fix the problem.


hahahahaha :rotfl: that was by far the funiest thing written in the board

Thanks!!


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## DVINNY (Jul 5, 2006)

I agree. LOL.


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## DVINNY (Jul 5, 2006)

> How many people were in the room with you taking the exam? 200? 300? Can you imagine if everyone of them had a different calculator that "is less capable than the HP 33S" and felt like they should be able to use it? Having the proctors check each calculator to ensure it was ok would take all day! Especially when the proctors are not techincal people.
> I don't like the calculator policy either. You should be able to use a calculator that you are used to. It's a shame that some people feel the need to cheat and it results in penalizing everyone else. That being said, I don't know what else can be done. Seems to be about as fair as you can be........


Point well made. We all probably see that, but like Sapper said. WE NEED TO BIATCH ABOUT SOMETHING!!!!!!!


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## Road Guy (Jul 6, 2006)

I think we should all at least email NCEES /ELS and ask if they would add a "very cheap" backup type calculator to (the approved list) to be allowed to bring in with you also. Something in the $5.00 range in the even something happens to your primary one. I brought in extra batteries for my HP 33S but I imagine even the HP 33's are made in India by some 7 year old for one dollar a day, so they can break.

Did anyone by the HP 33 with all the equations stored in it? I figured the time I would waste learning how to use them wouldnt be worth the effort. I stored one drainage equation in the event you needed to solve for more than 2 unknowns, but I dont recall using it, you have 4 choices its easier to just plug and chug each answer.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 6, 2006)

I got mine for only $15. Hence, I bought two to have a backup.

I got a Casio 115-MS.

I like the TI graphing calculators, but not the regular scientific ones. Never tried a HP.


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## VTskier (Jul 7, 2006)

I used a HP-9S calculator, which cost less than $15. I took the EE - Power exam, so it did everything I needed. I did not bring a backup calculator but did buy some spare batteries. I never used batteries, so I returned them the next day for a refund.


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## Seajay (Jul 7, 2006)

I gotta say the HP-48G used to kick arse when it came to solving simultaneous equations. Using the Reduced Row Echelon Form (RREF) function came in handy innumerable times. :true:


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