# NCEES updated the calculator list for 2007



## Dark Knight (Nov 16, 2006)

Hello there,

Visited "the other board"'s forum just to see how the things are going there and found a post about the approved list of calculators for 2007. :wtf: I think is very important. I am surprised nobody said something here. :true:

NCEES' new list of calculators is:

Hewlett Packard ? HP 33S

Casio ? FX 115MS or FX 115MSPlus

Texas Instruments ? TI 30X IIS

Texas Instruments ? TI 36X SOLAR

I don't know but the list looks shorter than the list from 2006. I can tell you they ban my calculator out of the list, the Casio FX-115ES, which IMHO is the best calculator(I should say....was the best calculator) if you are taking the EE-Power.

Don in MD,P.E. said that NCEES is considering the option of giving calculators the same way the give pencils. If that is true or not I don't know. Somebody knows about this?

My friends, this is getting out of control. Ridiculous. Can they explain the reasoning behind all this? Guess they don't have to. They are NCEES. :bow:

;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns;


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## Road Guy (Nov 16, 2006)

just so long as they give me a HP 48 thats fine by me (I think that was Dvinny's idea ?)

but I think they need to let you use any calculator and make a serious example out of anyone caught coding in test questions, not punish 99.99% of us...


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2006)

Luis --

I saw that posted at "the other board" too. :"the other board": :die:

I have always thought that there was WAY TOO much fuss being made over exam security and the potential for exam subversion by modifying calculators.

*RANT ON* ld timer:

I think what really pisses me off is that we are all taking an exam to prove our competency in engineering. There is more to engineering than crunching numbers - there is also professional ethics. It should go without saying that by signing the exam agreement - we are upholding our professional ethics by not discussing the exam with anyone else. :thumbsup:

NCEES justified the calculator ban by showing that somebody had modified a calculator to scan/store exam questions. One person. And this justifies punishing the remainder of the engineering candidates for one persons misdeeds ??!! :angry: How many ;hea51 are out there collecting exam questions to provide to examinees ??!! The thought that this somehow tips the balance is beyond rational, sane thought :wacko:

This exam is just an entry point into professional engineering - engineers must continually improve themselves (continuing education) :study and demonstrate their competency through thier course of conduct . I think it is sad that NCEES believes that implementing these prohibitions will *SUBSTANTIALLY* curtail exam subversion, because if somone has a mind to subvert the process - they will continue to try. So the vast majority of honest, hardworking, ethical exam candidates are left to shoulder the burden of an already onerus process. :brick: Truly Sad. :bad:

*RANT OFF* 

Oh well. What will be will be.

JR


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## DVINNY (Nov 16, 2006)

Somewhere on here, we had a thread about that, and I said I wanted my TI-86.

What I said, was that I'd be happy to PAY for the TI-86, they could tack that charge onto my exam fee, give me the calculator with my test, and keep it when I'm done. The $100 would be worth it IMO.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Nov 17, 2006)

Things like this are probably why you can't even bring your own writing instrument. Check out the specs on this bad boy. And I'm sure they have some that resemble calulators, too.









> The Planon DocuPen R700 is a handheld scanner that operates on batteries for full portability. The DocuPen is capable of storing up to 100 pages into memory and takes approximately 4 to 8 seconds per page. The DocuPen is different from other pen scanners in that it scans a FULL PAGE width and therefore scans the entire page including text and graphics in just 4 seconds. Other handheld and pen scanners only scan single lines of text or record handwriting and cannot scan graphics making them much less practical.
> This portable scanner functions as a quick and simple tool that can be taken anywhere to swipe over a smooth flat clean surface to capture black and white images. Your R700 DocuPen comes ready to use, you can recharge your scanner by simply plugging into any USB port during download or erase operations.
> 
> Battery operated with rechargeable lithium-ion batteries
> ...


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## DVINNY (Nov 17, 2006)

Yes, but taking the test 3 times now, I can say that having the old test book in your hands for the entire prep, would still only gain you a couple to three questions.

That thing has been so different that past three times that it's not even funny.

I'm sure that the questions are rotated and sooner or later end back up on the test, but still, it's a crap shoot.

Anyone caught doing such a thing as scanning the test, should just be hung from the gallows on the spot. Also, if I have that kind of technology, and desire to do evil for profit, I'm not going to worry about the PE exam, I'm going to Washington, and getting a job as an intern...........

........ yeah, that's it. I can make Watergate look tame.


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## Road Guy (Nov 17, 2006)

that thing looks like it only sells for about $200 bucks as well..? Does that seem right?


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## EdinNO (Nov 17, 2006)

With the likes of that pen, couldn't someone use the chasis of even the approved calculators to build a scanner and figure a way to scan the pages by "innocently" placing their calculator on the page and moving it over, etc...?

In other words, with all the spy technology out there, isn't the threat of a TI-86 or HP-48 pretty much nothing in comparison nowadays?


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## Dark Knight (Nov 17, 2006)

Hello there,

I was thinking about this issue last night. I am sorry for all the future candidates but looks like in a near future they will end up using a *sliding rule *for the PE test.

On the other hand: Is there any way we can ask :bow: NCEES :bow: to justify the decissions they take? I mean, is pretty easy for them to do this and that because they decide and the whole engineering world obey without hesitation.

The calculators they banned now do not have the features the HP48s and TIs had. So, What is the problem now? :angry:

Looks to me like a pitcher and catcher combination:

"This is John Doe from CaHp Electronics. We have a new product we would like to introduce. Is a new calculator designed for engineers taking the PE and the FE. We will gladly make a contribution to your organization if you give us the chance to present our product."

Next thing we know, my friends, is that without any explanation calculators that were approved last time are not approved anymore. I don't know. Maybe this is happening because 90% of the proctors don't know if scratch their clocks or look for the time in their as&amp;* so :bow: NCEES :bow: wants to make things easier for them. I am confused.

;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns; ;guns;


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## Mike in Gastonia (Nov 17, 2006)

> I was thinking about this issue last night. I am sorry for all the future candidates but looks like in a near future they will end up using a *sliding rule *for the PE test.
> The calculators they banned now do not have the features the HP48s and TIs had. So, What is the problem now? :angry:


Luis,

My dad took the PE in the early 50s - with a slide rule. Get this. _There were only certain kinds of slide rules that were allowed!_ Apparently some of them had extra scales on them or something. So in the big picture, this issue has been around for a long time.

Ultimately, IMHO, the exams will be computer based and the calculator will be on the computer and you will be given a choice as to whether you want the calculator on the computer to be algebraic or RPN. Either way, it will have the exact same functions.



> In other words, with all the spy technology out there, isn't the threat of a TI-86 or HP-48 pretty much nothing in comparison nowadays?


Ed,

That's probably why they're looking at actually supplying the calculators on exam day. Actually, this could be a prelude to that - trying to gradually narrow it down to one calculator and then the next thing you know, they'll just supply it.


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## MetroRAFB (Nov 17, 2006)

I'd bet they're trying to whittle down the number of approved calculators to make it easier for the proctors to tell what's allowed and what's not. I don't know about you guys, but I could have probably told my proctor the 48s was approved and he wouldn't have even checked his sheet. It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually went to the system of handing out calculators like pencils, except the cost and hassle involved might prevent it. What if the batteries are dead, etc.? They could just add the cost of the calculator to the exam fee, give everone a brand new one still in the package and let you keep it when you're done with the exam.

It's pretty easy in my opinion. Let us use any calculator we want, and anyone caught cheating or stealing questions is banned from ever becoming an engineer. That's not so hard, is it? :dunno:


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## Wolverine (Nov 17, 2006)

_Thisssss calculator does not look like the one on the lissssst_


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## EdinNO (Nov 17, 2006)

I'm torn really, anyway.

The $15 (actually $30 since I bought a spare) for the Casio was no big deal. Also, I'm an RPN guy and going back to algebraic on the Casio wasn't that hard either.

I think mentally it helped me because I bought the calculator a few months ahead of time and practicing with it was just another thing that I knew I was doing right. So I FELT more prepared. I think I'd rather it that way than to be given a brand-new, packaged calculator that I had not yet bonded with at the exam.

Also, to the computr thing, I guess that's the logical step one of these days. If it were me, I would like to be able to practice on my computer to get a feel for it- especially the built-in calculator part.

Ed


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## DVINNY (Nov 17, 2006)

Yeah, but how will NCEES justify the 8-12 weeks wait, when the thing is done on computer?

I agree that it should be on computer someday.

And I think that they are leaning out the calcs, to narrow it down to one or two, then provide them. I think that is a good idea too, actually.

Metro, I don't know about where you took it, but our proctors were like freakin hawks. There would be no pulling off anything with that group.


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## MetroRAFB (Nov 17, 2006)

It was hit or miss at my site. Some were super picky, some appeared to be in a rush, or confused, or just didn't think checking every single little thing was all that important. My particular proctor was in a rush. He started checking my books, then remembered he'd forgotten to check the guy's calculator behind me, so he left in the middle to go do that. When he got back to me he said: "I've checked your stuff already right?". I could have said "yep", whipped out a 48s and he wouldn't have known the difference.

He did that kind of thing with several of the people in our group, he was just jumping all around and couldn't remember who he'd checked and hadn't. I'd never risk trying to use an unapproved calculator though. All it would take is one disgruntled test taker to report you and bye-bye exam, hello sanctions.


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## MetroRAFB (Nov 17, 2006)

There was also one guy that HAD to have been directly from ELSES or NCEES headquarters. He was dressed in a suit and tie, wore his glasses way down on the end of his nose and just friggin' stared at people over the top of those spectacles in an apparent effort to detect subtle body language cues of people trying to cheat or something. He was spooky. He wasn't assigned to a certain area, he just wandered the whole room all day long trying to find something annomylous. I'm sure HE knew what a 48s looked like.

:true:


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2006)

> There was also one guy that HAD to have been directly from ELSES or NCEES headquarters.


Hmmm .... perhaps it was a :"the other board" mole: looking for *ANY* sign of subversion. :die:

JR


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2006)

Proctoring the exam through an examination center would be choice :thumbsup:

The NCLEX (Registered Nurse) Licensing exam is done that way. It takes 2 - 4 weeks to schedule and you are put in a room. The computerized exam provided questions based on previous correct/incorrect responses. In this way, the test would provide questions that increased or decreased in difficulty, depending on previous responses. Exam results are available wthin 2 - 3 days. :+1:

I agree there are positive and negative points but then I would say the positives outweight the negatives. '.02' I would like to see NCEES move in a more balanced, practical approach instead of the knee-jerk reactionary hooey they keep putting out !! :wacko:

JR


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## rbrund (Nov 17, 2006)

They are getting really strict on these calculators. I agree with the other posters. They cost of a calculator should be in the exam fee, so that they wont have fits when you bring in a calculator thats not on list. How much does a TI36X cost like 15 dollars. That seems like the best idea but hey what do i know.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 17, 2006)

I understand the need for exam security and support it. But it does seem like a double standard in some ways regarding what you can bring into the exam.

You can bring any sort of bound reference you want into the exam. That means someone could potentially have some inside knowledge of the exam just inconspicuously mixed in with their other notes, references, etc. Nobody paid any attention to the references I brought into (or out of) the exam room with me.

Yet the calculators were heavily scrutinized. I gotta think it's just as easy to cheat or steal info on paper as it is a calculator.


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## Road Guy (Nov 17, 2006)

Just say NO to Texas Instruments!

HP all the way....


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 17, 2006)

Casio! :???:


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## goldnwhite (Nov 17, 2006)

I've used an HP since high school. My brain would fight other calculators for the most of the test if they took HPs off the list.

I don't understand why they'd leave the HP on the list with the most features. Makes no sense. :BK:


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## Road Guy (Nov 17, 2006)

because they know that I purchaed an HP30S as a backup for the last exam


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## purduegrad (Nov 17, 2006)

Why are they so concerned with calculators? With only 40 questions, anyone with a decent memory can memorize the questions, go back to his car at lunch , write down all the questions he can remember and then go right back into the test after lunch. I don't think it matters anyway, each exam is so very different and i'm sure they can always get more exam questions.


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## goldnwhite (Nov 17, 2006)

Maybe they need things like this to justify their jobs. Hence the 8-12 weeks processing, etc. It makes for a full year of "work." :whatever:


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## singlespeed (Nov 17, 2006)

> ......With only 40 questions, anyone with a decent memory can memorize the questions, go back to his car at lunch , write down all the questions he can remember and then go right back into the test after lunch.......


I can only remember a very few of the 80 questions - and only when accompanied by blinding flashes of light and extreme migrains 

I have often said that I have the brain the size of a walnut and an IQ that matches my shoe size, but there is no way I could memorize 40 questions :true:


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## Road Guy (Nov 17, 2006)

I memorized all the answers, they were:

A,B,C,D


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## Dleg (Nov 17, 2006)

I sure hope I don't have to take the exam again now! You would not believe the trouble I went to get a damn Casio FX-115 _ES _ sent to the CNMI where I live. None of the big dealers will ship a calculator to a PO box for some reason (maybe Al Qaida uses PO boxes to obtain calculators to use as guidance chips for the suicide bombers? h43r: ). I ended up paying nearly $80 just to get two of these $17 calculators shipped to me by some shady ebay dealer. Now NCEES goes and strikes it from their list. WHY?


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## rbrund (Nov 17, 2006)

The calculators taken off the list, were they bad compared to the ones left on the list.


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