# PE Requirements in New Jersey



## mech engineer

Guys,

I was reading rules on how to apply for a PE license in New Jersey and checked the actual application. It seems that in NJ only counts the experience obtained UNDER IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION of a PE. That is, regardless of what you did, even if you designed Boeing 747 from the ground up - it would not count, unless your immediate supervisor was a PE, and your worked under him for four years (or three years, if have an MS degree).

This seems to be stricter than the regulations in most of the other states. Let's say, Connecticut does require an applicant to have three references from PE's (same as NJ), but they are not necessarily his or her IMMEDIATE supervisors. Many states, including Florida and PA only call for working under a PE OR EQUALLY QUALIFIED PERSON - which is quite nice, since an equally qualified means a good engineer in general. In NJ rules I saw nothing about an equally qualified person... And how about those folks who work in exempt industry? If you work in manufacturing, you are no good in NJ? :hung-037:

Guys from NJ, please explain it. No work under PE - no license in NJ PERIOD? Is this right? :whipping:


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## Guest

The experience requirement varies from state to state, but typically the requirement will not be that the engineer had to be licensed under your state's particular engineer licensing statute.

For instance, in Florida, your experience had to be under a PRACTICING ENGINEER under the state's statute (471, F.S.). A practicing engineer was an engineer licensed under 471, F.S. or ... and then there were specific exemptions. In my particular case, the state called my supervisor by title ... Engineering Supervisor and my job title Engineer II for my first engineering job. My engineering supervisor, while not licensed, was still responsible for overseeing my engineering work and thus I was able to credit that time towards my licensure.

I think the key thing most licensing boards want to see is progressive, responsible charge of engineering works. I was able to adequately demonstrate increased proficiency and competency through my series of promotions and the subsequent increase in responsibility and difficulty for each successive project. In fact, at one point, I served as an expert witness in a large court hearing :true:

Take another look at what the state's statute provides and see if there are specific exemptions for those who can practice engineering without being licensed under the states licensing authority. If that person can PRACTICE and supervises your work - that time should be creditable to your overall experience.

:2cents:

Good luck!

JR


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## peamin

That seems to be true. A co-worker of mine had 8 years of experience and was a PE in CT. NJ denied her a PE based on falling short of experience under a PE (I think that requirement is atleast 2 years of engineering design experience presumable under a PE).


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## mech engineer

peamin said:


> That seems to be true. A co-worker of mine had 8 years of experience and was a PE in CT. NJ denied her a PE based on falling short of experience under a PE (I think that requirement is atleast 2 years of engineering design experience presumable under a PE).


That's bad. I wanted to register in all the states of the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT), but it looks like I should leave alone NJ for now and get in touch with CT. They seems to be quite nice - you got your references and experience, here's your license. I am already licensed in NY


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## bigray76

Honestly I am not sure how that all works since my direct supervisor for the first 7 years of employment is a PE in NJ (and even my stint in a satelite office had me reporting do another PE). I know from some of my friends that the increased responsibility and leadership on projects is a big item they weigh. While I did do some assignments for non-PE's, all of my work was reviewed by my boss (the PE).

-Ray


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## Old as Dirt Geo

mech engineer,

You can go the NJPE Board web site and look at the NJ State regulations and statutes. Specifically look at the regulation 13:40-2.10(a) which defines the experience requirements for licensure. In general NJ wants 4 years professional experience that the board determines is consistent with NJSA 45:8-28b - (this is the statute that gives the defination of professional engineering experience and professional engineer) which shall be gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed professional engineer.

Addtionally 2 years of the experience must be gained in the U.S. and 2 years of the experience shall be original design experience that show increased responsibilty and technical expertise over time.

So if your immediate supervisor is not a PE, then hopefully a PE somewhere in your company knew what you did and hopfully reviewed your work. Ask them if you can referenced them in your experience record for engineering work performed. When you write up your experience list your immediate supervisor, the non-PE, then start your description of work with something like "Work performed under the direct supervision and review of John Doe, NYPE license no. 123456 " or just "Work performed under the supervision of John Doe, NY PE license No. 123456". This should give you the requirement of work gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed PE.

When I submitted my experience record to the NJPE Board, I used this statement for a job where we did not have a PE on staff. I did however have a sub-consultant that was a PE who did review my work and agreed to let me reference him as someone that supervised my design work. Now granted I have over 20+ years of work experience under various PE's from several states and NJ may not have even worried about or accepted this experience. Also of the 20+ years of engineering experience only 8 years were under a NJPE and not all of that was true engineering or design experience.

However you are right that in NJ you must have experience supervised by a licensed PE. I hope this helps

Old as Dirt Geo


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## cantaloup

peamin said:


> That seems to be true. A co-worker of mine had 8 years of experience and was a PE in CT. NJ denied her a PE based on falling short of experience under a PE (I think that requirement is atleast 2 years of engineering design experience presumable under a PE).


In that case if he know a State Rep. or a State Senate, let's him/her (the elected official) have a talk with the Board.


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## AJK

mech engineer said:


> Many states, including Florida and PA only call for working under a PE OR EQUALLY QUALIFIED PERSON - which is quite nice, since an equally qualified means a good engineer in general.


Mech,

You are correct about what the law says in PA. Technically, you would be allowed to take the exam if you had worked under a "similarly qualified engineer".

However, I have personally found that the PA board will fight tooth and claw if your amplified record does not show that your supervisor is a PE. (This was for civil, I do not know how they would feel about Mech, Chem, Mining, etc)

I found that the Board is unwilling to bend on this. They put the burden of proof on the applicant to prove that their supervisor is similarly qualified - this is tough to do if they already have their mind set that they want to deny your application.

Also, if you are really lucky, they will send you a letter stating that you need to understand that it is the Board's duty to protect the safety of the Commonwealth, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, if you were interested in PA licensure, they may look at it differently for Mechanical Engineering applicants.


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## mech engineer

Old as Dirt Geo said:


> mech engineer,
> You can go the NJPE Board web site and look at the NJ State regulations and statutes. Specifically look at the regulation 13:40-2.10(a) which defines the experience requirements for licensure. In general NJ wants 4 years professional experience that the board determines is consistent with NJSA 45:8-28b - (this is the statute that gives the defination of professional engineering experience and professional engineer) which shall be gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed professional engineer.
> 
> Addtionally 2 years of the experience must be gained in the U.S. and 2 years of the experience shall be original design experience that show increased responsibilty and technical expertise over time.
> 
> So if your immediate supervisor is not a PE, then hopefully a PE somewhere in your company knew what you did and hopfully reviewed your work. Ask them if you can referenced them in your experience record for engineering work performed. When you write up your experience list your immediate supervisor, the non-PE, then start your description of work with something like "Work performed under the direct supervision and review of John Doe, NYPE license no. 123456 " or just "Work performed under the supervision of John Doe, NY PE license No. 123456". This should give you the requirement of work gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed PE.
> 
> When I submitted my experience record to the NJPE Board, I used this statement for a job where we did not have a PE on staff. I did however have a sub-consultant that was a PE who did review my work and agreed to let me reference him as someone that supervised my design work. Now granted I have over 20+ years of work experience under various PE's from several states and NJ may not have even worried about or accepted this experience. Also of the 20+ years of engineering experience only 8 years were under a NJPE and not all of that was true engineering or design experience.
> 
> However you are right that in NJ you must have experience supervised by a licensed PE. I hope this helps
> 
> Old as Dirt Geo


Geo, your plan is the only one workable at the moment. :thankyou:

My dream was to obtain licenses from the whole Tri-State Area (NY, NJ, CT). Since NJ is complicated, I am thinking of getting a CT's license first. It is much easier to obtain than NJ's AT THE MOMENT. I checked their application, if you have three PE references, you are basically all set; no continuous education required - paradise for a PE.  . Two states are probably enough for me for now

Later on maybe I will storm NJ's board again. But I feel with two PE certificates my internal ago and the wallet will feel well enough for a couple of years to come. Now, where is the phone number of that 3rd references? lease: Praying he did not pass away yet. :bowdown:


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## JPGOLF

I applied in NJ because most of our work is there, even though I live in PA. I first tried to go thru PA, but their requirements in my opinion are "harder" than NJ's. PA ONLY takes experience AFTER ISSUANCE of the EIT certificate, which I think is stupid because yuo do not start learning only after you take the EIT. NJ does not care about the order of requirements, even to the point that technically you can take credit for experience during school (I do not agree with that). The PE requirement is true, however I know under special circumstances they will evaluate your experience even if yuo are not directly and constantly under another PE.

My 2 cents,

Jpgolf


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## mech engineer

JPGOLF said:


> The PE requirement is true, however I know under special circumstances they will evaluate your experience even if yuo are not directly and constantly under another PE.
> My 2 cents,
> 
> Jpgolf


Friend, do you know under what circumstances? I saw NO EXCEPTIONS, *please share your experience.* My impression is this is rock solid :brickwall:


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## JPGOLF

For example, if your office is really small and there are only 2 PEs under which you have done work. I think that if you have the experience and can prove that to the board, they may approve it. Is this your scenario? If so, talk to them, everything is negotiable.

Jpgolf


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## mech engineer

Old as Dirt Geo said:


> mech engineer,
> You can go the NJPE Board web site and look at the NJ State regulations and statutes. Specifically look at the regulation 13:40-2.10(a) which defines the experience requirements for licensure. In general NJ wants 4 years professional experience that the board determines is consistent with NJSA 45:8-28b - (this is the statute that gives the defination of professional engineering experience and professional engineer) which shall be gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed professional engineer.
> 
> Addtionally 2 years of the experience must be gained in the U.S. and 2 years of the experience shall be original design experience that show increased responsibilty and technical expertise over time.
> 
> So if your immediate supervisor is not a PE, then hopefully a PE somewhere in your company knew what you did and hopfully reviewed your work. Ask them if you can referenced them in your experience record for engineering work performed. When you write up your experience list your immediate supervisor, the non-PE, then start your description of work with something like "Work performed under the direct supervision and review of John Doe, NYPE license no. 123456 " or just "Work performed under the supervision of John Doe, NY PE license No. 123456". This should give you the requirement of work gained under the regular and effective supervision of a licensed PE.
> 
> When I submitted my experience record to the NJPE Board, I used this statement for a job where we did not have a PE on staff. I did however have a sub-consultant that was a PE who did review my work and agreed to let me reference him as someone that supervised my design work. Now granted I have over 20+ years of work experience under various PE's from several states and NJ may not have even worried about or accepted this experience. Also of the 20+ years of engineering experience only 8 years were under a NJPE and not all of that was true engineering or design experience.
> 
> However you are right that in NJ you must have experience supervised by a licensed PE. I hope this helps
> 
> Old as Dirt Geo



Geo, I spoke with my former boss and he gave me the contact info of the PE who reviewed my work for full four years. That PE agreed to be listed on my application

But I still have a problem. I am supposed to list five references on the PE application, out of which three persons must be PE's familiar with my EXPERIENCE.

However, in another set of instructions at http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/pels/comitrev.pdf it reads 'Five references are required. At least three shall be licensed professional engineers in the United States and have personal knowledge of the applicant’s experience or TRAINING'.

So, would it be suffiecient to list three PE's out of which

1 PE under which I worked for four years

2 PE's who are familiar with my training? Two college professors with PE licenses?

May I write something like 'I had bla-bla-bla engineering work engagements while at the same time being in school doing Master's Degree in ME where I was trained by two professional engineers/professors bla-bla-bla?' The two guys did train me and they know that I was doing engineering work while in school. Is it gonna work?

The problem is I really have difficulty chasing down three PE's who are closely familiar with my EXPERIENCE. I can likely find three required persons, but people are moving, changing phone numbers, names, do not reply calls, and so on and so forth. :dunno:

Doable, but tough.

Geo, also, what information the references need to provide on the reference forms? What they need to certify? The NJ Board says it will only mail the reference forms after the application is filed, but I would like to have a clue what exactly my references need to confirm before I list them as references to avoid needing to re-submit the application. Anyone else has a clue?

Geo, this is really pain in the neck... I had no problems in NY and CT, but NJ is eating my blood and time


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## Old as Dirt Geo

mech engineer said:


> Geo, I spoke with my former boss and he gave me the contact info of the PE who reviewed my work for full four years. That PE agreed to be listed on my application
> But I still have a problem. I am supposed to list five references on the PE application, out of which three persons must be PE's familiar with my EXPERIENCE.
> 
> However, in another set of instructions at http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/pels/comitrev.pdf it reads 'Five references are required. At least three shall be licensed professional engineers in the United States and have personal knowledge of the applicant’s experience or TRAINING'.
> 
> So, would it be suffiecient to list three PE's out of which
> 
> 1 PE under which I worked for four years
> 
> 2 PE's who are familiar with my training? Two college professors with PE licenses?
> 
> May I write something like 'I had bla-bla-bla engineering work engagements while at the same time being in school doing Master's Degree in ME where I was trained by two professional engineers/professors bla-bla-bla?' The two guys did train me and they know that I was doing engineering work while in school. Is it gonna work?
> 
> The problem is I really have difficulty chasing down three PE's who are closely familiar with my EXPERIENCE. I can likely find three required persons, but people are moving, changing phone numbers, names, do not reply calls, and so on and so forth. :dunno:
> 
> Doable, but tough.
> 
> Geo, also, what information the references need to provide on the reference forms? What they need to certify? The NJ Board says it will only mail the reference forms after the application is filed, but I would like to have a clue what exactly my references need to confirm before I list them as references to avoid needing to re-submit the application. Anyone else has a clue?
> 
> Geo, this is really pain in the neck... I had no problems in NY and CT, but NJ is eating my blood and time


ME

I was very lucky in the fact that I have 24 yrs experience when I applied for my PE and had a number of PEs to choose from for references. I assume that you have had only one place of employment. I would ask other PEs in the company if you can use them as references, even guys or gals that many not have reviewed your work but do know what you have done. If you list engineering experience during your MS degree work then list those PEs as references too. Remember that a masters counts as 1 year of experience on your application. As for the reference letters from the state, if I remember correctly, they mail them to you and ask you to distribute them to your references. I will check to see If I kept a copy of the blank reference form and let you know what they ask. I remember that I provided each reference with a self addressed stamped envelope to help speed the process in having them return the form to the NJPE board. Remind them that they need to sign the form and return it to the board. I had 1 reference that forgot to sign his form and was return to him for signature, and my application was not considered complete until he return the signed form.

OADG


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## mech engineer

Old as Dirt Geo said:


> ME
> I was very lucky in the fact that I have 24 yrs experience when I applied for my PE and had a number of PEs to choose from for references. I assume that you have had only one place of employment. I would ask other PEs in the company if you can use them as references, even guys or gals that many not have reviewed your work but do know what you have done. If you list engineering experience during your MS degree work then list those PEs as references too. Remember that a masters counts as 1 year of experience on your application. As for the reference letters from the state, if I remember correctly, they mail them to you and ask you to distribute them to your references. I will check to see If I kept a copy of the blank reference form and let you know what they ask. I remember that I provided each reference with a self addressed stamped envelope to help speed the process in having them return the form to the NJPE board. Remind them that they need to sign the form and return it to the board. I had 1 reference that forgot to sign his form and was return to him for signature, and my application was not considered complete until he return the signed form.
> 
> OADG


Geo,

Thank you for your information. When you have a chance, please do list what they ask on that form.

Believe it or not I have over 10 years of engineering experience. However, I did not always work under PE's. But I do have solid 4 years under a PE plus that Master's Degree that counts for one year out of four needed. My former boss located that PE guy for me, I have his license number, full name, and address.

Now, I have a good buddy-PE who knows my work history. He's happy to be a reference. Then at my current position there is a licensed guy to whom I do not report, but who's aware of my responsibilities - that's the second reference. Then I would like to get references from two licensed professors who trained me for my MSc (they love me) - that would be three and four. And the last one would be from my former boss, who's not licensed, but it does not matter.

I think it's gonna cut it. What do you think, Geo?


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