# Use water as fuel



## Samzmom08 (Jun 8, 2008)

Ozzie was on a "CarTalk" promoting a home made unit (electrolysis) to convert water to Hydrogen; this unit installed in your car was suppose to increase fuel efficiency. Here's his website.

What do you think?


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## TouchDown (Jun 9, 2008)

I think you should try it out and tell us how it worked.

Give Ozzie Freedom a free loan until he gives your money back after it doesn't work. You waste a couple months trying to figure out why it didn't work, and he get's to gain interest off of the money of thousands who invest in his crap.

But, I might be wrong. Try it out and let us know.


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## FusionWhite (Jun 9, 2008)

This was on the local news the other day. It just seems WAY too good to be true, and we all know that if its too good to be true it probably is. Heres the rub I see, the energy used to electrolysize the water is MORE then the energy recovered from the burning of the water fuel (thats just simple thermodynamics). So the question is where does the energy come from to split the water? If its "waste" energy (heat, noise, vibration) that normally goes out the tailpipe this might be feasible, however if its energy which is drawn from the combustion process (P-V work) your robbing Paul to pay Peter and this is a scam.

The site claims to recycle wasted energy but how it does it is not entirely clear. My initial hunch is to call bullshit and until proven otherwise Im sticking with it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 9, 2008)

We did this in high school chemistry. FW is correct in his assessment of electrolysis energy being far greater than the energy out.


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## Dark Knight (Jun 9, 2008)

Off topic: If we can only store all the (bleep) some people talk and use it as fuel that will solve the problem.

Back to the topic......There are countries in Europe doing this(using hydrogen as fuel)

That brings me back to a thought I had once. How in the freaking world we, the most powerful nation in the world, are behind on all those efforts to find other sources of energy? Do we owe that much to the oil-cocoons or to the Arab Nations?

Somebody explain that to me like I was 5 years old because,honestly, I do not get it.


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## chaosiscash (Jun 9, 2008)

^^ I know how you feel. It kills me to admit that the French (and a lot of the rest of Europe) is so far ahead of us on the nuke power front.

As far as this water-car crap goes, however, its just that, crap.


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## FusionWhite (Jun 9, 2008)

Dark Knight said:


> Off topic: If we can only store all the (bleep) some people talk and use it as fuel that will solve the problem.
> Back to the topic......There are countries in Europe doing this(using hydrogen as fuel)
> 
> That brings me back to a thought I had once. How in the freaking world we, the most powerful nation in the world, are behind on all those efforts to find other sources of energy? Do we owe that much to the oil-cocoons or to the Arab Nations?
> ...



DK, I highly recommend you read a "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts. It actually focuses a lot on alternative energy and how to effectively impliment it. Its a very good look at all things energy related and isnt jsut a big oil bashing book. Very very informative, I highly recommend it to anyone even remotely interest in energy policy (and who can afford to be ignorant of energy policy right now???)

Your right, Europe is ahead of use in the use of alternate energy (Germany expects to generate 12% of its power from wind in the very near future). However I think the $4 a gallon oil is a blessing in disguise because this is going to give the US a kick in the pants to catch up.

As for nuclear power three words:

Three

Mile

Island

Although in the grand scheme of things Three Mile Island released less radiation then one of my farts after mexican food it, it effectively doomed any and all large scale growth in nuclear power in this country (even with the expected "resurgence" of nuclear power that people are predicting). Whats interesting is that right now Germany is in the process of decommisioning several nuclear reactors which will instead be replaced by coal units. I dont remember the logic behind why but Germany is moving away from nuclear energy too.


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## chaosiscash (Jun 9, 2008)

No doubt, TMI changed everything. But I think that the fear of nuke power it caused is finally going away. After all, here in TN, they are starting design for the startup of a "new" reactor at Watt Bar Power Station. And thats the first time that has happened in the US in a lot of years.


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## Flyer_PE (Jun 9, 2008)

Things are moving forward for construction of South Texas Units 3 and 4 as well. Now that they are issuing combined construction and operating licenses, the utilities are more willing to attempt to build one. There are also tax incentives being offered for construction of the first few of each type (BWR / PWR) of power plant.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 9, 2008)

Looks like SC is getting two new ones in Jenkinsville. I think the upsate may be getting a rector or two as well.

Finally, it is about time for us to stop hiding from nukes like frightened children.


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## Dark Knight (Jun 9, 2008)

FusionWhite said:


> DK, I highly recommend you read a "The End of Oil" by Paul Roberts. It actually focuses a lot on alternative energy and how to effectively impliment it. Its a very good look at all things energy related and isnt jsut a big oil bashing book. Very very informative, I highly recommend it to anyone even remotely interest in energy policy (and who can afford to be ignorant of energy policy right now???)


Thanks FW. I will look for that book. I have a lot of time here in my exile.



FusionWhite said:


> Your right, Europe is ahead of use in the use of alternate energy (Germany expects to generate 12% of its power from wind in the very near future). However I think the $4 a gallon oil is a blessing in disguise because this is going to give the US a kick in the pants to catch up.


TMI gave a hard blow to the nuke industry when it happened.There were a lot of projects comiing and TMI halted all of them. I do not know if you knew this but there was a nukie in P.R. They did not put too much care on the design and security, since they were experimenting(Yessss...they used the Island as a guinea pig...bastards :smileyballs: )and eventually abandoned the plant and took what they learned back to the continental states.

But now, with all the technology and with the eye of the NRC watching all the time things are changing and the nuclear is on the rise. I like it. I lived 7 miles away from a nuke at Chattanooga and it was OK and I have no extra toes or fingers so far. I think is a good alternative.



FusionWhite said:


> Although in the grand scheme of things Three Mile Island released less radiation then one of my farts after mexican food


:Locolaugh: :Locolaugh: That is so dog gammit funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mizzoueng (Jun 19, 2008)

There are multiple reasons we are behind in the Power front

1. The "mushroom cloud" fear

2. Sierra Club

3. TMI/Chernobyl

4. Piss poor estimating

#4 killed a lot of the nukes back in the day. Major cost overruns, caused primarily by bad designs requiring in-field safety design changes, caused most projects to overrun by 200%.

There are just too many hippies left here in the US and that is killing a majority of the new power movement. Sierra wants "green" power from Solar or wind, but to do that we need to cut down forests and cover the desert in solar panels, both things they are not in favor of. I see this S$&amp;t daily and if Sierra would just shut up and everyone would just back off and quit sueing the utilities they would see that the current plant deisgns are actually clean and "NextGen" is even cleaner, but its much easier to just b****, moan, lobby, and sue and get nothing out of it other than debt and higher electric bills.


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