# Everything Happens for a Reason?



## Road Guy (Jun 14, 2017)

Anyone else subscribe to this? (&amp; I don’t mean in a religious sense like the phrase is often used)

I used to think this phrase was utter BS, but now I am starting to become a believer….

For example does rejection of a job you thought you really wanted lead to a better opportunity 6 months later? (or relationship, etc)

Or does life just always balance out in the end?


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## Supe (Jun 14, 2017)

Did you forget to login as Canadagoose?


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## matt267 PE (Jun 14, 2017)

I would like to think that everything happens for a reason. But I think there are people with just bad luck that can never catch a break.


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## Road Guy (Jun 14, 2017)

too much weed last night...


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## Dleg (Jun 14, 2017)

Supe said:


> Did you forget to login as Canadagoose?


LOL!!!!!


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## Dleg (Jun 14, 2017)

I think everything is random, but I also believe that for reasonably capable people (like most of us are), things always work out because we make sure they work out.  I'm the poster child for this - I've missed many opportunities and taken many that I had second, third, and fourth thoughts about.  But things have worked out just fine.


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## User1 (Jun 14, 2017)

I tell myself that some things just weren't meant to be, but that's mostly so that I can convince myself that I don't need to buy this purse/these shoes right now. If I keep thinking about it/them and come back and it's not there, then I will survive.

But for real life things, I think life just balances out for the most part. I've missed things I really wanted and ended up being happy with how things turned out. I don't think it's necessarily because it was "meant" to happen, but more like @Dleg said, we just make sure it works out anyway.


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## ptatohed (Jun 14, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> Anyone else subscribe to this? (&amp; I don’t mean in a religious sense like the phrase is often used)
> 
> I used to think this phrase was utter BS, but now I am starting to become a believer….
> 
> ...


I say no.  I do not believe that there is some external invisible force somehow guiding the outcome of events.  Good things happen to good people, bad things happen to good people.  Bad things happen to bad people, good things happen to bad people.  You can personally control the things you can control and the things you can't control are left to chance, odds, and happenstance.  If you get laid off, it isn't because there is some "greater plan" for you in a new career.  You got laid off.  Period.  You may find a better job and want to call it "meant to be" but I'd just say you (keyword 'you') found a better job, congrats.  There is no evidence of an external guiding force that I know of?


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## Supe (Jun 14, 2017)

Life has been a coin toss ever since I made a charge for the egg.


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 14, 2017)

thejulie_PE said:


> but that's mostly so that I can convince myself that I don't need to buy this purse/these shoes right now.


Except when @YMZ PE takes your wife shoe shopping in Vegas. ldman:


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 14, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Except when @YMZ PE takes your wife shoe shopping in Vegas. ldman:


Just have another drink. You won't remember any of it tomorrow...


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## Supe (Jun 14, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Except when @YMZ PE takes your wife shoe shopping in Vegas. ldman:


Just look on the bright side.  She could have brought her tanzanite shopping in Alaska, instead.


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## YMZ PE (Jun 14, 2017)

In this life, there's no way to definitively prove whether or not things "just happen", but I think your attitude matters much more than a theoretical higher force's design. Even if life is random, one can view it as random random (shit just happens) or random good (shit happens but eventually for the best). I think people who have hope generally have better outcomes, because they're able to take the positive out of a crappy situation and move forward with minimal discouragement. Plus they're generally more pleasant to be around.

@Road Guy are you guys pregnant again or something?


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Jun 14, 2017)

Supe said:


> Did you forget to login as Canadagoose?


OMG Supe, that is hilari-rofl.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 15, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> In this life, there's no way to definitively prove whether or not things "just happen", but I think your attitude matters much more than a theoretical higher force's design. Even if life is random, one can view it as random random (shit just happens) or random good (shit happens but eventually for the best). I think people who have hope generally have better outcomes, because they're able to take the positive out of a crappy situation and move forward with minimal discouragement. Plus they're generally more pleasant to be around.
> 
> @Road Guy *are you guys pregnant again or something?*


If true, we all pretty much know the reason.


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## csb (Jun 15, 2017)




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## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2017)

no its not quite as bad as a 43 year old having a baby! jesus Christ even the thought of that.... ((shudders))

I don't want to jinx it, but I have been doing some major strategizing to get a new job and running into a bunch of dead ends in jobs that I should have been a slam dunk for and then it turns up there may be something worth staying here after all..


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## YMZ PE (Jun 15, 2017)

csb said:


>


The link is broken but I got the gist of the joke


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## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2017)

the wife did comment that we have drank a  2L bottle of tequila in 3 weeks..


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## ptatohed (Jun 15, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> no its not quite as bad as a 43 year old having a baby! jesus Christ even the thought of that.... ((shudders))


Hey I just had a baby at 41 (she's 8 months now, I am 42 now).  :mellow:


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## snickerd3 (Jun 15, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Hey I just had a baby at 41 (she's 8 months now, I am 42 now).  :mellow:


:screwloose:


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## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2017)

yeah no thanks.. I'm done with all the  school bullshit, little league, cub scouts, boy scouts, HS sports, HS Band, etc...


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## ptatohed (Jun 15, 2017)

snickerd3 said:


> :screwloose:


My wife is 35 so it is ok.  ]


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## snickerd3 (Jun 15, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> My wife is 35 so it is ok.  ]


we were talking about you...


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 15, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Hey I just had a baby at 41 (she's 8 months now, I am 42 now).  :mellow:


My youngest will graduate highschool when I'm only 2 years older than you...

The thought of having to deal with baby food and diapers again is the source of nightmares.


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## Bot-Man (Jun 15, 2017)

I unequivocally believe sometimes circumstances occur that are more than just random chance or coincidence. To put it simply, sometimes "fate" smiles upon us and sometimes she kicks us in the balls. I believe that there are occasions when her charity or perceived wrath happen for a reason. To push us in a particular direction. A discussion of the events that have lead me to this conclusion would be pointless since most of us are strangers to one another and it would be easy for you to just discount them to the ramblings of just another internet philosopher preaching his version of truth. So as not to enter a metaphysical or philosophical debate, I will just say that during the course of my life I have experienced things that defy traditional scientific explanation or understanding and said experiences brought me to the conclusion that yes, sometimes there is a reason why that particular event occurred. That being said one of my favorite quotes is "luck favors the prepared."


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## ptatohed (Jun 15, 2017)

snickerd3 said:


> we were talking about you...


I know.  Just saying if I get too old and can't keep up with the kids, my wife is still youthful and should be able to cover it.  ;o)



Dexman PE PMP said:


> My youngest will graduate highschool when I'm only 2 years older than you...
> 
> The thought of having to deal with baby food and diapers again is the source of nightmares.


I guess I know what you guys are saying.  I just started things in life later than most.  Had my 1st at 35, 2nd at 37/38, and 3rd at 41.  But I am so stoked to have this baby girl.  She's a huge source of happiness.  I wouldn't change it for anything.


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## MA_PE (Jun 15, 2017)

Supe said:


> Did you forget to login as Canadagoose?


just saw this thread.

this made me LOL


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## leggo PE (Jun 15, 2017)

My mom had my brother at 37 and me at 40. My dad was 48 when I was born!

Yep, my parents were definitely on the older end of parents growing up, and my dad is the age of some of my friends' grandparents these days. But I'm rather thankful for my existence.


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## leggo PE (Jun 15, 2017)

As for the original topic, I don't really think everything happens for a reason. But that's probably mostly based on life experiences I've had.

Then again, I was a hard subscriber to accepting that "it was not my time to pass" the first time I found out I failed the P.E. exam, when I really, really thought I had passed.


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## matt267 PE (Jun 16, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> ..I am so stoked to have this baby girl.  She's a huge source of happiness.


That's nice. Just wait until she turns 9. @Supe knows what I mean.


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## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2017)

I guess I should always trust Red


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## Supe (Jun 19, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> That's nice. Just wait until she turns 9. @Supe knows what I mean.


Yep.  My "little girl" used the term "butt dumplings" this weekend prior to her trying to renegotiate a new bed time.  Oh, they grow up so fast...


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## Wolverine (Jun 20, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> That's nice. Just wait until she turns 9. @Supe knows what I mean.


This, but make that "13".  There's a rough patch in there until they come home at 21 and admit everything you warned them about was correct. I'm just holding my breath.

There's no such thing as fate, only probability.  If you have a good probability-generator, good things will eventually happen in spite of the random bad, because you've put yourself in position for luck to find you.  Someone with a bad probability-generator, aka bad decision making skills, will wonder why they're always so unlucky.  Well, it's because they put themselves in the position for bad luck to find them. MATH!


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## engineergurl (Jun 20, 2017)

Wolverine said:


> There's no such thing as fate, only probability.  If you have a good probability-generator, good things will eventually happen in spite of the random bad, because you've put yourself in position for luck to find you.  Someone with a bad probability-generator, aka bad decision making skills, will wonder why they're always so unlucky.  Well, it's because they put themselves in the position for bad luck to find them. MATH!


this is a good way to put it...


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## Dleg (Jun 20, 2017)

Wolverine said:


> This, but make that "13".  There's a rough patch in there until they come home at 21 and admit everything you warned them about was correct. I'm just holding my breath.


Well that's a relief.  Only 6 more months and my daughter will suddenly start listening to my advice and stop doing dumb stuff!


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## goodal (Jun 20, 2017)

RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.


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## engineergurl (Jun 21, 2017)

goodal said:


> RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.


I take it you never read "The Secret"


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## goodal (Jun 21, 2017)

Neither read or heard.  Should I?


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## Audi Driver P.E. (Jun 21, 2017)

goodal said:


> Neither read or heard.  Should I?


I wouldn't waste a moment of my time on it, personally.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2017)

goodal said:


> RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.


I think believing in some "greater power" guiding our lives serves a horrible disservice to everything around you (natural science, people, decisions, etc) and is a cop-out for people who refuse to acknowledge their own accountability.


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## YMZ PE (Jun 21, 2017)

I know you're just oking: goodal but personally I think I add value to the lives of people around me despite being a hardcore theist.


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## Dleg (Jun 21, 2017)

^Is that image supposed to be a persuasive argument?  Or just a big F U to everyone who is not an athiest?  I'm not exactly a very religious person, but that just screams "I'm an asshole so don't listen to anything I have to say".


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm not saying religious people don't add value to the lives of others. I'm saying giving credit and/or blame to a higher power for things in our lives is childish. You're smart enough to know that your actions/decisions and the actions/decisions of those around out lead to the outcome you got. Wolvie said it best with his probability post above.


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## YMZ PE (Jun 22, 2017)

Agree to disagree. It doesn't make sense to me, with the sheer number of decisions made outside of my control, why my life has turned out as optimally as it has without some sort of external guidance. There really should be more senseless tragedies scattered randomly throughout my life and yet even the sad times make sense in the larger context of where I'm heading. But I'm not nearly sufficient enough of a sample size to prove anything.


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## Supe (Jun 22, 2017)

A big part of me wants to believe in an afterlife so that the shitbags of this planet can suffer for eternity.  Does that make me a terrible person?


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## Ble_PE (Jun 22, 2017)

And here I thought Dex had moved out of the US to get away from intolerance and bigotry, but it seems to have followed him across the world.


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## Supe (Jun 22, 2017)

Ble_PE said:


> And here I thought Dex had moved out of the US to get away from intolerance and bigotry, but it seems to have followed him across the world.


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## goodal (Jun 22, 2017)

I'm not going to take the bait Dex and BTW I would not post something that flamatory even as a joke.  I will say that my faith in God is not because I am week or lazy or stupid (I am an engineer afterall  ), but rather after looking at the amazing, intricate, complex world around me, I cannot help but see evidence of our Creator.  Not to mention the affect (effect?) faith has had on my life and the lives of those around me.  If you want to call it fate, so be it.  I see it as the Almighty's hand on my life molding me into something better.  Not better in a haughty "I'm better than you" sense, but better as in being able to be used in a greater way or for a greater purpose.  Yes, we are all responsible for our actions.  God or his opponent do not make anyone do anything.  We will all be judged for our actions one day.  I chose many years ago to follow a christian guidelines for my actions.  If you choose otherwise, that's your choice to make.  We all have free will.  Something no other creation was given.  So do I believe everything we do is predestined?  No, but I agree if you look at it through God's eyes he has seen everything already, so he already knows the outcome of our decisions.  That part is like trying to wrap your head around time travel.  Don't do it.  You won't get any where.  Even with a Delorean.  There are many, many things I don't understand about God, life, death, etc. but one thing I know with doubt is that there is a God and even though he is beyond time and space, he cares about you and me and wants to have a place in our lives.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 22, 2017)

That picture was not meant as bait. I truly believe that there is no god and I believe that those who dedicate themselves to believing in him deliberately ignore a significant portion of the real world in front of them. I acknowledge the fact that the world around us is a very complex series of systems and events and that I don't/can't fully understand them all. Just because I don't understand them does not mean that I think some higher power is out there controlling it. However, I do know that there are very intelligent people who dedicate themselves to further understanding those systems, and my "faith" is in their skill. Do they understand everything? Not yet, but that still does not mean there is a higher power. Do they revise their positions based on new evidence? I hope so. If I saw overwhelming evidence of something that contradicts what I understood, I would like to think my beliefs would be revised accordingly. 

*I do believe everything happens for a reason, and that reason is science (physics, biology, chemistry, psychology and statistics). Simple causality; cause and effect. There is absolutely nothing that says otherwise.*

It is very awe-inspiring when you stop to think about the progression of events that lead to any given moment, even something as insignificant as the Deadpool figurine on my desk. How many people, places, decisions, etc had to come together for him to sit there? Despite all of the complexities that made that happen, every person, place, and decision can be tracked through logical means and at no point in any of it did an all-powerful "creator" emerge as responsible for any of it.

What effect has faith had on your life? I truly want to see evidence that your following of scripture is the direct cause of a better life. I know some will say that they gain strength from their fellow church followers. In that case it's not the faith that is responsible, but rather the people you choose to surround yourself with. Being around good people who care about one another leads to better outcomes for the group.

To some, religion is like the "binkie" you're given as a child; it's presence is comforting in a time of waning confidence and troubling times. Society has made it acceptable to be able to carry that mental "binkie" with you openly in public. In that regard, religion/spirituality is quite helpful. This is what I was teaching in lieu of the faith element of cub scouts. Find that thing that gives you mental strength when you need it, and you will go further in your en devours.

In order to get that "binkie" out of a something founded on a book like the bible, the vast majority of it must be ignored (including the fact it has been re-written, politically edited [King James version, anyone?], and translated from stories that weren't written down for hundreds of years after the events allegedly happened). If you have to ignore so much of the "foundation" of your religion, what is the point of following the religion? Too often I see acts carried out by religious "fundamentalists". If they are truly following the fundamentals, again I ask, what is the point of following the religion?  To me, it's like perpetuating racism. Sure, you're not flat-out racist (the fundamentalist), but you still smile when an inappropriate joke is told. That smile is just enough to keep that joke alive to be retold again and further enable the teller to continue thinking it's ok.  If you're going to follow a "book of lessons", you're better off reading something like Aesop's Fables. You know the stories are not true, but you see the moral guidance the stories provide.

I would argue that you believe in god, not because you have any actual evidence of his existence, but rather because of where you were born and who your parents are. There is no greater influence of your religion and belief structure than where you're raised. You were indoctrinated before you knew any better (given your "binkie") in a region where such religion is the social norm. Once you have that binkie, it's very hard to ever let it go (I'm still fighting with my 10 yr old about not needing hers for bed). It makes you feel good, you learn to function with it in everything you do, which then leads you to think you can never function without it. Fear of losing your binkie or being an "outsider" for not having a binkie is the biggest reason religion is perpetuated. "I needed it to get through my life, I should to give it to my kids so they can get through theirs."

A couple questions I see raised in atheist circles:

If god is an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent being, why does evil exist (The Evidential Problem of Evil)?

Does free will truly exist if god has predetermined our future and decides if we go to heaven or hell (the paradox of free will)?

Since both rely on the existence of god, the obvious solution to both is that god does not exist.


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## ptatohed (Jun 23, 2017)

goodal said:


> RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.


I actually agree with goodal here in that I was thinking the same thing.... that, even though RG said 'not in a religious sense', how else could you describe the invisible guiding force in 'meant to be'?  Though I don't believe in the existence of any of history's thousands of created gods or goddesses, I agree that, if you believe there is a controlling force in your life, that is a religious belief.

goodal and I have exchanged countless PMs on the topic of religion.  I enjoyed it, thanks goodal.


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## ptatohed (Jun 23, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> That picture was not meant as bait. I truly believe that there is no god and I believe that those who dedicate themselves to believing in him deliberately ignore a significant portion of the real world in front of them. I acknowledge the fact that the world around us is a very complex series of systems and events and that I don't/can't fully understand them all. Just because I don't understand them does not mean that I think some higher power is out there controlling it. However, I do know that there are very intelligent people who dedicate themselves to further understanding those
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


While I probably wouldn't have the [email protected]!!$ to post the Lemmy meme you did, this is all well said and I agree with everything you wrote Dex.

I have a lot of conversations with my Christian friends.  (They're likely Christians because we live in the West.  If we lived in the Middle East, they'd likely be Muslims; and if we lived in India, they'd likely be Hindus; etc.).

Just the other day, I talked to them about a recent "exorcism" some Christian lady did to her young daughter by stripping her naked on a public beach and beating her "to remove demons".  

http://people.com/crime/california-woman-charged-exorcism-11-year-old-daughter/

I pointed out that most (hopefully all) of us would think this is lunacy.  But exorcisms are rampant in the New Testament!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism_in_Christianity   Even Jesus himself performed many exorcisms to expel demons and evil spirits from possessed people.  As a Christian, you have to believe such things are true.  So how do you separate that in your mind?  Why were so many people possessed by demons 2000 years ago but none of us believe in demon possession today?  If we believe in the claims of the NT, how then can you say that this lady was wrong in diagnosing her daughter as being possessed?  To me, believing that all those demon possession stories described in the NT actually happened requires you to turn off logical faculties of your regular intellect in order to accept the New Testament's claims.  How do you do that?  I asked my Christian friends and I got very wishy washy answers.          

I very much respect religious people and their right to believe the things they believe, even if different than my own beliefs.  There is much good in religion.  I just personally can't believe the _extraordinary _(conflicting) truth claims about reality made by the world's multitude of holy books, without the required (by me) _extraordinary _evidence that any of the claims are true.


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## leggo PE (Jun 23, 2017)

I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think I do at least like to believe in karma of some sort. I don't know if I actually believe in it, but I do tend to think that small things I do in my life may contribute or detract from karma for leggo in the future.


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## ptatohed (Jun 23, 2017)

leggo PE said:


> I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think I do at least like to believe in karma of some sort. I don't know if I actually believe in it, but I do tend to think that small things I do in my life may contribute or detract from karma for leggo in the future.


Yeah, I too believe what comes around goes around, just not in any spiritual or supernatural sense.


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## csb (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right?


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## ptatohed (Jun 23, 2017)

csb said:


> I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right?


My 6 year old still sleeps with his infant blanket.  Excuse me.... his "boblet" (our household term for it since that is how he would call it when he was 2).  Not sure if my wife and I should encourage him to detach from it or just let nature take its course?


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## csb (Jun 23, 2017)

My eleven-year-old is still attached to his stuffed dog. That sucker made all the difference in surgery last month being smooth sailing.


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## lisfs (Jun 23, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> My 6 year old still sleeps with his infant blanket.  Excuse me.... his "boblet" (our household term for it since that is how he would call it when he was 2).  Not sure if my wife and I should encourage him to detach from it or just let nature take its course?


I'd say let nature take its course.  At 5 years old, my daughter still sucked her thumb until it bent at the tip (no joking, can you believe it?  :blink: ).  I got worried and told her that eventually, the tip of her thumb may fall off.  She tried to quit, but couldn't.  She would not be able to fall asleep without sucking her thumb so she continued...  A year had gone by and I noticed she had already quit.  I asked her when did that happen? and she replied "I don't know; don't remember"  How cool was that?  That problem just went away on its own, UNLIKE most or all of Engineering problems  -_-


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## YMZ PE (Jun 24, 2017)

I don't like the idea of karma. If all my evil thoughts and all the crap I've pulled over the years comes back to me one day, I'm f*cked. Divine grace is a much more comforting binkie.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 24, 2017)

csb said:


> I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right?


Yes, it's a white blanket. Mostly because she sucks her thumb when she has it and it's causing problems with her adult teeth coming in. Dentist said if she didn't stop she would need braces (which are insanely expensive here).

No issues with her "beebee" itself. We let our 12 yr old still sleep with his "boo bears", but he doesn't suck his thumb.

Hell, I can't sleep without some form of white noise (desk fan, air conditioner, or app on my phone).


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 24, 2017)

This article came across my FB feed yesterday and I think it addresses my thoughts on the "inflammatory" meme I shared yesterday.

Basically, if you're mad that I shared something that said "fuck" instead of listening to the message it was portraying, then you're focus is misguided.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/2017/06/christian-upset-wrong-things



> I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact I just said “shit” than you are that 30,000 kids died last night.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 24, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> I don't like the idea of karma. If all my evil thoughts and all the crap I've pulled over the years comes back to me one day, I'm f*cked. Divine grace is a much more comforting binkie.


The part that bothers me is that so many use "devine grace" as a mental get-out-of-jail-free card.

You did something bad? Tell Jesus you're sorry and it's no big deal. That's bullshit. Walking away from personal accountability like that really grinds my gears.


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## NJmike PE (Jun 25, 2017)

It's OK Dex. Just God you're sorry and all will be good.


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## ptatohed (Jun 25, 2017)

NJmike PE said:


> It's OK Dex. Just God you're sorry and all will be good.


Which one of the thousands (from A-Z)?  

Allah........ Brahma....... Jesus...... Jun Di........ Krishna...... Poseidon.......Yahweh..... Zeus?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 25, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Which one of the thousands (from A-Z)?
> 
> Allah........ Brahma....... Jesus...... Jun Di........ Krishna...... Poseidon.......Yahweh..... Zeus?


Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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## Ble_PE (Jun 26, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> This article came across my FB feed yesterday and I think it addresses my thoughts on the "inflammatory" meme I shared yesterday.
> 
> Basically, if you're mad that I shared something that said "fuck" instead of listening to the message it was portraying, then you're focus is misguided.
> 
> http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/2017/06/christian-upset-wrong-things


I couldn't care less about the fact that you shared something that said fuck or shit or whatever cuss word you want to say in it. What I can't stand is the perceived intellectual superiority that you have over us heathens who believe in a higher power. I don't care that you don't believe in God, but don't act like you're this enlightened individual who sees things those simple-minded Christians can't see. The truth of the matter is that you're nothing more than an insecure, immature asshole.


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## Wolverine (Jun 26, 2017)

SCIENCE!

Reminds me of a joke our pastor told:

SCIENCE! went to God and said, "God, we no longer need you.  Using the power of SCIENCE! we have achieved everything you have; we know the stars, we can see the beginning of the Universe, we have mastered the power of the atom, with our 3D printers we can arrange molecules into any shape or substance we desire, we can literally take a pile of dirt and recombine the elements in a way that creates life!"

[SIZE= 18px]_God said, "Wow, that sounds pretty impressive.  Can you show me?"_[/SIZE]

Science said, "Sure. We start with this little pile of dirt here and..."

[SIZE= 18px]_"Whoa, whoa, whoa!", says God._[/SIZE]

[SIZE= 18px]_"... get your own dirt..."_[/SIZE]


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## Road Guy (Jun 26, 2017)

Ble- I Agree

Many of us here have been around here for a long time and I don't see the need for such a rude response. Go get your rocks off someplace else with that shit....

&amp; my original question was not in a religious sense, just something I had been pondering. I do totally believe in Karma, it will catch up to you sooner or later (See OJ)


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## Supe (Jun 26, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> See OJ


I assume you're not talking about his possible parole?


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## kevo_55 (Jun 26, 2017)

#Freethejuice

Ok, I have nothing meaningful to add here.  :bag:


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## YMZ PE (Jun 26, 2017)

Road Guy said:


> &amp; my original question was not in a religious sense, just something I had been pondering.


I do hope your job situation turns out better than you could have ever hoped, despite the disappointment you experienced a few months ago. Like goodal mentioned, it's difficult to talk about this topic and not have it lead to some sort of religious debate. Can't really talk about effect without debating cause.

I agree with Ble. Quoting Tina Fey re: Christopher Hitchens: "It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist."


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## ptatohed (Jun 26, 2017)

Maybe this will lighten the mood a little?    

_An Atheist in the woods admiring the beauty of it thought to himself, "Evolution made that tree and evolution made those birds, and made the flowers in the field, and the grass. All of a sudden a Grizzly bear charges from the bushes after him. He runs away trying to escape but trips on a root. As the bear prepares to pounce on him he screams, "OH MY GOD!" The bear freezes in mid pounce, the trees stop waving in the wind. A bright light shines on him and a loud booming voice says, "You spend your entire life not believing in me, tell others not to believe in me, and attribute MY creation to natural selection!" "So why should I save you and if I do, am I to believe that you would now be a Christian?" The atheist states that it would be hypocritical of him to assume that, but could God make the bear a Christian. God says, "ok" and time restarts.. The bear gets down on his knees, folds his paws together and says, "Oh! Lord thank you for this meal I am about to receive."  _


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## csb (Jun 26, 2017)

I've had to think about this one for awhile and I'm going to go ahead and admit I believe it. I think things like, "Thank goodness I left a little late to miss that weather that caused that accident!" or "Maybe next time I'll get the job." 

Yeah, it's fantasy, but it makes me feel better. Don't let Dex know or he'll crush that dream, too.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 26, 2017)

csb said:


> I've had to think about this one for awhile and I'm going to go ahead and admit I believe it. I think things like, "Thank goodness I left a little late to miss that weather that caused that accident!" or "Maybe next time I'll get the job."
> 
> Yeah, it's fantasy, but it makes me feel better. Don't let Dex know or he'll crush that dream, too.


I agree with you. I have those same thoughts. I'm glad I was lucky enough to miss that unfortunate event, or was in the right place at the right time for something good. I just don't thank god for it.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 26, 2017)

Ble_PE said:


> I couldn't care less about the fact that you shared something that said fuck or shit or whatever cuss word you want to say in it. What I can't stand is the perceived intellectual superiority that you have over us heathens who believe in a higher power. I don't care that you don't believe in God, but don't act like you're this enlightened individual who sees things those simple-minded Christians can't see. The truth of the matter is that you're nothing more than an insecure, immature asshole.


How do you feel when you figure out a magician's trick? Perhaps there was a little intellectual superiority as you watched your friends continue to be baffled and amazed by it. Do you tell them that there's a trap door, or do you let them believe the magic? Perhaps I'm making it worse and further proving your point by equating it to a magician's trick.

Does that make me feel enlightened? A little. And even a little superior. Do I need to get called out for it? Probably, and I thank you for doing it. I'm glad we know each other well enough that we can do it openly. My humility comes from these discussions with others. I do need my friends to call me an asshole when I'm being an asshole. But I also hope my friends can see that when I criticize their beliefs, I'm not trying to put myself up on a pedestal, but rather trying to understand why they believe what they do.

Am I insecure? Of course I am. Show me someone who isn't and I'll show you a liar.

Immature? No shit. We've known each other long enough for me to definitely prove that multiple times.

Asshole? Again, you know me. I've done worse and been called worse.


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## SE_FL (Jun 26, 2017)

I firmly believe everything happens for a reason. Unfortunately I may not agree with the reason in the short term, long term or cosmic relativity (my personal good or someone else's good farther down the line.) RG staying with a great job may prevent someone else having that same opportunity. Or him staying may increase the company's growth and allow a few new hires that can benefit from a decent job. You can't predict the future possibilities when the randomness of life interferes. The comfort knowing that if I do the best I can for a particular moment in time will nominally increase the good in the world at some point in the future has become my safe, warm blanket. It allows me to sleep at night and wake up with hope.

I happen to be a christian due to extensive research, conversations, pondering and hundreds of iterations of testing (trial and error of different inputs just to watch the outcomes). Testing my theory was very important to me. If people don't agree with me it just means that life has given them a different perspective. If I had the same experiences (or lack of experiences) they had I would probably believe otherwise.

I hope I always believe in a higher power of some sort. Anything else seems a little depressing and not worth the effort. It may be the easy road, but one that has been fairly rewarding so far.


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## ptatohed (Jul 3, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> I do hope your job situation turns out better than you could have ever hoped, despite the disappointment you experienced a few months ago. Like goodal mentioned, it's difficult to talk about this topic and not have it lead to some sort of religious debate. Can't really talk about effect without debating cause.
> 
> I agree with Ble. Quoting Tina Fey re: Christopher Hitchens: "It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist."


I was thinking about this quote and I like it in one sense but I think it misses the mark in a greater sense.  

What I like is it relegates religious selection to that of food preference.  Which is true, one's choice in religion is, in all honesty, nothing more than personal preference, much like one's favorite food, favorite movie, favorite music genre, favorite sports team, etc.  - not based on evidence or facts -  but on personal preference.  Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Buddhism, Catholic, 7th Day Adventist, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Lutheran, Methodist, Protestant, Pentecostal,.... on and on..... pick _your_ favorite.        

But where it misses the point is this.  I can't remember the last time someone who likes Chinese food has done any of the following "in the name of Chinese food":  Told me I am going to hell if I don't like their food, placed Chinese food flyers on my windshield... wait, scratch that one  ,... knocked on my door to preach to me the virtues and "truth" of Chinese food, tried to force 'Intelligent Design' into my kid's classroom, flown a plane into a building or set off a suicide bomb in the name of Chinese food, killed an abortion doctor, performed witch hunts, inquisitions, human (and animal) sacrifice, child molestation and cover-up,  crusades, ethnic cleansing, journalist beheadings, slavery, misogyny, intolerance toward gays, genital mutilation, the death of innocent children due to parents' reliance on faith healing,... shall I continue?

I'm totally cool with an individual's right to have a personal belief in anything they want..... just please don't force it upon me and others.  Some atheists take it too far but I think the majority of us are just saying please don't let your personal beliefs intrude on my freedoms.  I hope that makes sense.  Not trying to be a d!ck or anything.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 3, 2017)

Assholes are going to be assholes. Faith is just another justification for being a jerk but that doesn't make it inherently bad.


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## Supe (Jul 5, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I can't remember the last time someone who likes Chinese food has done any of the following "in the name of Chinese food"


If you withhold fried dumplings from me for more than a month, I wouldn't rule out doing roughly half of those.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jul 5, 2017)

Supe said:


> If you withhold fried dumplings from me for more than a month, I wouldn't rule out doing roughly half of those.


Never had them prior to moving to Auckland. Now they're a weekly routine. A small restaurant just up the road sells 20 for $10 and are damn good.


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## Supe (Jul 6, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> Never had them prior to moving to Auckland. Now they're a weekly routine. A small restaurant just up the road sells 20 for $10 and are damn good.


Thankfully I found a deliver place that has good ones.  Most of these f*ckers don't know the difference between fried dumplings and potstickers, which is total bullshit.


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## Road Guy (Jul 6, 2017)

they are pretty easy to make at home as well


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## Supe (Jul 6, 2017)

It's hard to find dumpling wrappers that have the right thickness/chew to them.  Most seem to err more towards a wonton wrapper.  I also have been completely unable to replicate the proper taste for dumpling dipping sauce.  I'm about to hand the restaurant down the street a $20 to give me the damn recipe.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 6, 2017)

Supe said:


> Most of these f*ckers don't know the difference between fried dumplings and potstickers,


Hmm...so what's the difference? :dunno:

:bag:


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## Supe (Jul 6, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Hmm...so what's the difference? :dunno:
> 
> :bag:


Go back to your supper club!

J/K.  By definition, a dumpling that is prepared by frying and sticking to a wok, then finished by steaming should be a potsticker.  All potstickers are dumplings, but not all dumplings are potstickers.  

The REAL problem in the south, is that a lot of Chinese-American restaurants serve Japanese gyoza instead of Chinese dumplings, but call them dumplings or potstickers.  Gyoza are a much thinner wrapper (like a wonton wrapper) and a much finer mince on the meat.  These are the things you usually see sold in frozen bags in the grocery store.  Chinese dumplings are a thicker wrapper and coarser mince in the meat.  

Fact of the matter is, fried dumplings and potstickers should be synonymous, and gyoza should be gyoza.  When I order fried dumplings or potstickers at a Chinese restaurant, I sure as shit shouldn't get gyoza.


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## engineergurl (Jul 6, 2017)

Is the sauce kind of like what the Korean's use for Mandu?


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## Supe (Jul 6, 2017)

No idea, never had Korean dumplings.  From what I gather, the Chinese stuff is some combination of vinegar, soy, fresh ginger, sugar, and ...?  There's either some secret ingredient, certain kinds of the listed ingredients, or some magic ratio that either makes is garbage or perfect.  There is no in-between.


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## Dleg (Jul 6, 2017)

I think you need that Chinese red chili oil.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jul 6, 2017)

http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/dumpling-dipping-sauce


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## engineergurl (Jul 7, 2017)

http://www.food.com/recipe/my-korean-dipping-sauce-50692

This is the one I make, but we actually add a tiny bit of bbq sauce from the bottle in too


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 7, 2017)

Well...this thread took an unexpected turn.  From arguing about religion to asian dipping sauce recipes.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 7, 2017)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Well...this thread took an unexpected turn.  From arguing about religion to asian dipping sauce recipes.


Are you surprised by this? Surprised it hasn't yet taken a turn into the gutter yet...lol


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## ptatohed (Jul 7, 2017)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Well...this thread took an unexpected turn.  From arguing about religion to asian dipping sauce recipes.




I believe this all happened for a reason!


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## matt267 PE (Jul 7, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> I believe this all happened for a reason!


Thank God. I've been looking for a good asian dipping sauce recipe.


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## Road Guy (Jul 7, 2017)

you must because Asian food is god awful without some type of sauce to mask just how shitty it al tastes (no wonder they are all so skinny)


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## matt267 PE (Jul 7, 2017)

And on that note, I'm heading over to the mall for some food court Chinese "food."


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## mudpuppy (Jul 7, 2017)

I know a few Asians I wouldn't mind dipping. . .


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## Dleg (Jul 7, 2017)

Racist!


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## ptatohed (Jul 7, 2017)

Dleg said:


> Racist!


Sounded like a compliment to me.


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## Dleg (Jul 7, 2017)

I can say that because I am married to one!


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 7, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> Are you surprised by this? Surprised it hasn't yet taken a turn into the gutter yet...lol


Yeah, actually.  It doesn't surprise me that a thread drifted on this forum.  But the way this particular thread was heading, I figured it would be closed before it had a chance to drift.

Hooray for thread drift!  Keeping people from hating each other (too much)!


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## YMZ PE (Jul 8, 2017)

We finally tried out this dumpling place called Din Tai Fung that always has a line out the door even though it's a big sit-down restaurant. I generally don't like lines or Chinese food, but oh my god those dumplings are perfect. Just the right wrapping and filling texture, and each dumpling is also somehow filled with hot fresh broth. I never thought I'd spend $50 on dumplings in one sitting but we couldn't stop ordering them.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 8, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> We finally tried out this dumpling place called Din Tai Fung that always has a line out the door even though it's a big sit-down restaurant. I generally don't like lines or Chinese food, but oh my god those dumplings are perfect. Just the right wrapping and filling texture, and each dumpling is also somehow filled with hot fresh broth. I never thought I'd spend $50 on dumplings in one sitting but we couldn't stop ordering them.


Until i hear confirmation from @Supe, this is meaningless.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 9, 2017)

One would think cheap, skinny bitch, sober me ordering $50 worth of food would count for something. Nevertheless, I'm taking @Supe to Din Tai Fung the next time he's in town.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jul 9, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> Thank *FSM* God. I've been looking for a good asian dipping sauce recipe.


Fixed.


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## Supe (Jul 10, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> We finally tried out this dumpling place called Din Tai Fung that always has a line out the door even though it's a big sit-down restaurant. I generally don't like lines or Chinese food, but oh my god those dumplings are perfect. Just the right wrapping and filling texture, and each dumpling is also somehow filled with hot fresh broth. I never thought I'd spend $50 on dumplings in one sitting but we couldn't stop ordering them.


Xiao long bao!  Those are the Chinese soup dumplings.  Din Tai Fung is actually a global chain.  Wanted to try it ever since I first saw it on Bizarre Foods: Delicious Destinations.

I also ordered two orders of pork fried dumplings last Friday from my usual delivery place.  No regrets.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 10, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> One would think cheap, skinny bitch, sober me ordering $50 worth of food would count for something. Nevertheless, I'm taking @Supe to Din Tai Fung the next time he's in town.


Indeed it does. However, I was recently made aware that Supe is a dumpling connoisseur. :thumbs:

I would also be interested to try this place if ever in the area.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 10, 2017)

Let's do it! It's a mall chain, so we can go shoe shopping afterwards.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 10, 2017)

ldman:


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## leggo PE (Jul 10, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> We finally tried out this dumpling place called Din Tai Fung that always has a line out the door even though it's a big sit-down restaurant. I generally don't like lines or Chinese food, but oh my god those dumplings are perfect. Just the right wrapping and filling texture, and each dumpling is also somehow filled with hot fresh broth. I never thought I'd spend $50 on dumplings in one sitting but we couldn't stop ordering them.


Soup dumplings? Soup dumplings! Those are the BEST kind of dumplings, IMO. Joe's Shanghai in NYC (in Chinatown) is where I've had the best ones. I can get alright ones here in CA also.


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## csb (Jul 11, 2017)

And this goes to show that everything does indeed happen for a reason.


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## kevo_55 (Jul 11, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> We finally tried out this dumpling place called Din Tai Fung that always has a line out the door even though it's a big sit-down restaurant. I generally don't like lines or Chinese food, but oh my god those dumplings are perfect. Just the right wrapping and filling texture, and each dumpling is also somehow filled with hot fresh broth. I never thought I'd spend $50 on dumplings in one sitting but we couldn't stop ordering them.


Been to the original branch in Taipei many times. I always leave happy.

It's crazy how fast those people can make them. I don't know about the US ones but there is a window into the kitchen that you can see in the lobby of the restaurant.


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## User1 (Jul 11, 2017)

can verify DTF Is the shit.


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## csb (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm always down to...wait...are you still talking about dumplings?


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## Supe (Jul 11, 2017)

csb said:


> I'm always down to...wait...are you still talking about dumplings?


Doesn't change the answer.


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## kevo_55 (Jul 11, 2017)




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## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2017)

csb said:


> And this goes to show that everything does indeed happen for a reason.


Yes, perhaps.  But I am not convinced that dumplings exist.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 12, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Yes, perhaps.  But I am not convinced that dumplings exist.


"Not convinced"? I thought you were a dumpling denier, not a Doubting Dim Summer.


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## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> "Not convinced"? I thought you were a dumpling denier, not a Doubting Dim Summer.


Not a dumpling denier.  I just demand a high level of compelling evidence that they exist.


----------



## goodal (Jul 12, 2017)

Dexman PE PMP said:


> How do you feel when you figure out a magician's trick? Perhaps there was a little intellectual superiority as you watched your friends continue to be baffled and amazed by it. Do you tell them that there's a trap door, or do you let them believe the magic? Perhaps I'm making it worse and further proving your point by equating it to a magician's trick.
> 
> Does that make me feel enlightened? A little. And even a little superior. Do I need to get called out for it? Probably, and I thank you for doing it. I'm glad we know each other well enough that we can do it openly. My humility comes from these discussions with others. I do need my friends to call me an asshole when I'm being an asshole. But I also hope my friends can see that when I criticize their beliefs, I'm not trying to put myself up on a pedestal, but rather trying to understand why they believe what they do.
> 
> ...


I've been avoiding this thread because I knew it would take more time to respond than I want to put into it.  

We (christians) feel the same way as far as knowing something others don't, but in my experience that knowledge has a different affect on us.  I don't feel superior for knowing the secret, but I do want to tell others so they can know it too.  You mention humility, but that is not reflected in your post.  I also know there are some (read: 0.001%) militant believers that are used as a crutch to give the rest of us a bad name.  That's a pretty weak argument against Christianity when the amount of good the church does for humanity is so great.  Show me any other group that has come anywhere close to doing things for mankind that Christianity has.  Noone else even comes close. Feeding the hungry, cheering the sad, housing the homeless, healing the sick, etc. is not done to show our superiority, but simply to help and directly due to our faith.  Another major difference between us is the affect our "secrets" can have on peoples lives.  Yours opens eyes to a cynical, aimless life that tends to being bound by vices, things, happenings and ends in literal nothingness (by your own admission).  Mine can give life a purpose, hope in a number of ways, help for the weary, encouragement for the downtrodden, feed the hungry, love for your neighbor, strength for the weak, peace in death and so much more.  I don't say that to imply your not a good person (even though you're admitting in this thread to several issues) or that you may do good things, but to point out that there are so many things you miss out on by not knowing God.  Some would say I miss out on so much because of my relationship with God.  The rules and restrictions placed on me are a blessing and show me that God loves and cares for me.  We all need boundaries.  A child without boundaries will turn into a useless adult.  A dog without boundaries turns into road kill.  A human without boundaries is capable of immense, terrible evil.  Again, not saying you guys are evil, but you have to admit without God and rules, that is where your line of thought leads. Yes, people that call themselves christians have done much evil, but when they do it is done in direct contradiction to our guidebook and I do not condone it.  I'm sure I've ticked you off even more, but that was not my intention.

It is not possible to get all of my thoughts into a post short enough that anyone wants to take time to read.  That said, this is a pitifully short response that should be a couple more thousand words long, but I gots engineerin to do.


----------



## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2017)

goodal said:


> I've been avoiding this thread because I knew it would take more time to respond than I want to put into it.
> 
> We (christians) feel the same way as far as knowing something others don't, but in my experience that knowledge has a different affect on us.  I don't feel superior for knowing the secret, but I do want to tell others so they can know it too.  You mention humility, but that is not reflected in your post.  I also know there are some (read: 0.001%) militant believers that are used as a crutch to give the rest of us a bad name.  That's a pretty weak argument against Christianity when the amount of good the church does for humanity is so great.  Show me any other group that has come anywhere close to doing things for mankind that Christianity has.  Noone else even comes close. Feeding the hungry, cheering the sad, housing the homeless, healing the sick, etc. is not done to show our superiority, but simply to help and directly due to our faith.  Another major difference between us is the affect our "secrets" can have on peoples lives.  Yours opens eyes to a cynical, aimless life that tends to being bound by vices, things, happenings and ends in literal nothingness (by your own admission).  Mine can give life a purpose, hope in a number of ways, help for the weary, encouragement for the downtrodden, feed the hungry, love for your neighbor, strength for the weak, peace in death and so much more.  I don't say that to imply your not a good person (even though you're admitting in this thread to several issues) or that you may do good things, but to point out that there are so many things you miss out on by not knowing God.  Some would say I miss out on so much because of my relationship with God.  The rules and restrictions placed on me are a blessing and show me that God loves and cares for me.  We all need boundaries.  A child without boundaries will turn into a useless adult.  A dog without boundaries turns into road kill.  A human without boundaries is capable of immense, terrible evil.  Again, not saying you guys are evil, but you have to admit without God and rules, that is where your line of thought leads. Yes, people that call themselves christians have done much evil, but when they do it is done in direct contradiction to our guidebook and I do not condone it.  I'm sure I've ticked you off even more, but that was not my intention.
> 
> It is not possible to get all of my thoughts into a post short enough that anyone wants to take time to read.  That said, this is a pitifully short response that should be a couple more thousand words long, but I gots engineerin to do.


Oh boy goodal, you should have left it on the topic of dumplings.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 12, 2017)

Any thoughts on pierogis? I haven't had any good Polish food since leaving Los Angeles.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 12, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> Any thoughts on pierogis? I haven't had any good Polish food since leaving Los Angeles.


Come to the midwest! Plenty of Polish heritage to go around! I actually had them not too long ago, at Polish fest no less.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 12, 2017)

my mom stopped making them herself when she found a good Polish deli a couple towns away.  I'm not a huge fan of them in general but the deli she buys them from makes a really good pierogis and a good kielbasa as well


----------



## YMZ PE (Jul 12, 2017)




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## YMZ PE (Jul 12, 2017)

BTW, can we all agree to ignore snick's kielbasa reference? This thread is well on its way to setting a record for number of posts without an innuendo.


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## User1 (Jul 12, 2017)

where's the fun in that?


----------



## Road Guy (Jul 12, 2017)

did someone say crossfit?


----------



## goodal (Jul 12, 2017)

ptatohed said:


> Oh boy goodal, you should have left it on the topic of dumplings.


I know, I know.  I tried.


----------



## MA_PE (Jul 12, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> BTW, can we all agree to ignore snick's kielbasa reference? This thread is well on its way to setting a record for number of posts without an innuendo.


I think Snick may have been referencing Howard Stern's discovery - Denise Miller. a/k/a the Keibasa Queen.


----------



## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2017)

goodal said:


> I've been avoiding this thread because I knew it would take more time to respond than I want to put into it.
> 
> We (christians) feel the same way as far as knowing something others don't, but in my experience that knowledge has a different affect on us.  I don't feel superior for knowing the secret, but I do want to tell others so they can know it too.  You mention humility, but that is not reflected in your post.  I also know there are some (read: 0.001%) militant believers that are used as a crutch to give the rest of us a bad name.  That's a pretty weak argument against Christianity when the amount of good the church does for humanity is so great.  Show me any other group that has come anywhere close to doing things for mankind that Christianity has.  Noone else even comes close. Feeding the hungry, cheering the sad, housing the homeless, healing the sick, etc. is not done to show our superiority, but simply to help and directly due to our faith.  Another major difference between us is the affect our "secrets" can have on peoples lives.  Yours opens eyes to a cynical, aimless life that tends to being bound by vices, things, happenings and ends in literal nothingness (by your own admission).  Mine can give life a purpose, hope in a number of ways, help for the weary, encouragement for the downtrodden, feed the hungry, love for your neighbor, strength for the weak, peace in death and so much more.  I don't say that to imply your not a good person (even though you're admitting in this thread to several issues) or that you may do good things, but to point out that there are so many things you miss out on by not knowing God.  Some would say I miss out on so much because of my relationship with God.  The rules and restrictions placed on me are a blessing and show me that God loves and cares for me.  We all need boundaries.  A child without boundaries will turn into a useless adult.  A dog without boundaries turns into road kill.  A human without boundaries is capable of immense, terrible evil.  Again, not saying you guys are evil, but you have to admit without God and rules, that is where your line of thought leads. Yes, people that call themselves christians have done much evil, but when they do it is done in direct contradiction to our guidebook and I do not condone it.  I'm sure I've ticked you off even more, but that was not my intention.
> 
> It is not possible to get all of my thoughts into a post short enough that anyone wants to take time to read.  That said, this is a pitifully short response that should be a couple more thousand words long, but I gots engineerin to do.


Ok, so you guys know I can't resist.  Please accept my apology.  Crap, here goes my lunch hour......  :wacko:

goodal, you and I have probably already covered most of what you wrote and most of what I am about to reply in PM but here goes anyway.    

You talk about the amount of good the Christian church has done.  There is absolutely no doubt about that.  Christian charities should be commended for all of the aid and charity they provide. 

But two things.  1.)  Good works is not exclusive to Christianity.  There are countless secular organizations providing very commendable charitable and philanthropic efforts (Doctors Without Borders, Goodwill, The Nature Conservancy, Wheelchair Foundation, PlanUSA / Plan International, Foundation Beyond Belief, The American Red Cross, etc., etc.).  Likewise, there are also countless charities of other, non-Christian, religions (Mercy-USA  - Islam, LIFE - Islam, Hindu Charities for America - Hinduism, The Tzu Chi Foundation - Buddhism, Buddhist Global Relief - Buddhism, Lotus Outreach International - Buddhism, Da Chong Confucianism And Taoism Association Inc - Confucianism, American Joint Jewish Distribution Committee - Judaism, etc.).  My point is, all these secular and non-Christian charities manage to do just as much giving as Christian organizations, if not more, without the need of the Christian bible.  It seems to me, Christianity is not needed for good works.  And if someone was doing good works only because their holy book instructed them to do so, I would seriously question the merits of that person's good deeds. 

2.)  But, let's say, for a minute, that only Christians did good works.  That still does not prove that the extraordinary claims of the Christian bible are true.  The fact that good Christians do good things speaks nothing to the truth claims of the bible.  Just as a Muslim doing a good deed doesn't speak to the truth of the Quran, right?

I'll skip some of the other stuff, though I would love to refute some of it.   Here's the part that I would like to address please:  _" Again, not saying you guys are evil, but you have to admit without God and rules, that is where your line of thought leads. Yes, people that call themselves christians have done much evil, but when they do it is done in direct contradiction to our guidebook and I do not condone it."_  With all due respect goodal, I unequivocally, undeniably disagree with you here.  I'd love for you to show me where in your "guidebook" (assuming you mean the OT and NT, ie The Bible)  are instructions for good morals, values, and behaviors; that we wouldn't otherwise know outside of the bible.  We can all decide for ourselves what is good and what is bad, independent of the bible.  The fact that we can all look at the bible and point to the good things like love thy neighbor, don't steal, don't murder, help the helpless, etc. and say to ourselves those are good things to do...... and we can look at all the awful disgusting (and silly) directions in the bible like when you beat your slave make sure they live a day or two before dying, if you rape a woman you must marry her, stone a bride on her wedding night if it turns out she is not a virgin, women can't talk in church, women may not teach and may only learn from their husbands, women shall be submissive to their husbands as slaves to their masters, on and on and on,..... and say to ourselves those are bad terrible things that we should never do - means we have a moral compass outside and separate from the bible.  We do not need the bible to know right from wrong.  The best moral nugget of the bible is the golden rule.  But the golden rule basically exists in some form or another in almost every major religion and predates the Old Testament by hundreds of years.   

I thank Buddha we don't get our morals from the bible!  If we did, we'd be stoning our children for misbehaving, treating women like chattel, have a maddening obsession with foreskin and an extreme disgust for menstruation, kill gays, own other people, eat our children when we disobey god, etc., etc., etc.

Again, sorry.  I can't help myself.  Forgive me.  :mellow:


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## matt267 PE (Jul 12, 2017)

It's like the song that never ends.


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## ptatohed (Jul 12, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> It's like the song that never ends.


Ok, so anyway, back to those dumplings........


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## engineergurl (Jul 12, 2017)

I won't lie, I started typing a response but then got distracted by frozen perogies... I have an amazingly unhealthy recipe for what we grew up calling Polish Lasagna...  just imagine.... lasagna noodles, buttery onion mashed potatoes, kielbase and cheese all in a baked layered goodness of love...  but seriously, this train of thought has reminded me of VTE because we grew up eating the same food called by different names...  and let me tell you, cabbage rice and beef rolls whatever you call them and no matter if you cook them in tomato sauce, soup or juice...are the bomb.


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## Road Guy (Jul 12, 2017)

I call BS on goodwill being a charitable organization- they are basically a street level pimp, nothing more...


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## Supe (Jul 13, 2017)

YMZ PE said:


> Any thoughts on pierogis? I haven't had any good Polish food since leaving Los Angeles.


I can get down and dirty with pierogies.  Big staple in our house growing up.  Had one Polish grandmother, and one Slovak grandmother.  Potato and onion are my fave.  

I can also annihilate stuffed cabbage like there's no tomorrow.  

This place is just down the street from me.  I've been meaning to try it for years but haven't been there yet!  They sell both the aforementioned pierogies (which they refer to as Polish dumplings) and stuffed cabbage, but are supposed to have a killer deli, too.

http://zygmapolishdeli.com/


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 13, 2017)

Supe said:


> This place is just down the street from me.  I've been meaning to try it for years but haven't been there yet!  They sell both the aforementioned pierogies (which they refer to as Polish dumplings) and stuffed cabbage, but are supposed to have a killer deli, too.
> 
> http://zygmapolishdeli.com/


And you took me to a dive bar for wings instead?! I feel cheated!!! ldman:


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## Supe (Jul 13, 2017)

knight1fox3 said:


> And you took me to a dive bar for wings instead?! I feel cheated!!! ldman:


You drove yourself.  And those were good wings!


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 13, 2017)

Supe said:


> You drove yourself.  And those were good wings!


They were indeed good wings. But I didn't know pierogies were also on the table as a meal alternative. Next time though!


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