# Basement Finishing thread...



## Road Guy (Nov 19, 2009)

okay were finally biting the bullet and going to finish our basement..

getting prices for HVAC &amp; Plumbing right now,, not a lot of fun making calls, but thats my job as part time GC 

So I am doing some myself, some sub-contracted like the HVAC, plumbing, sheetrock (ceiling as well)

My budget is $12K for about 1,000 SF, all the walls are framed in and one room is already sheetrocked from the original builder, but its needs some touch up work

First thing up for me this weekend, I need to install a sub-panel for the HVAC, 100 Amp Sub-Panel. I have installed circuit breakers and new lines from the main panel before, what I have read adding a sub-panel is a lot like adding breakers? Nead you guys to reasure me that I can do this  Or encourage me to pay a few hundred bucks to have a proffessional do it?

Heres my schedule:

HVAC

Plumbing (rough in for bar, and full bath)

Electircal rough in

Sheetrock

painting

flooring

stripper pole installation

crazy disco party (your all invited)

will get some in progress pics done along the way!


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## ALBin517 (Nov 19, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> okay were finally biting the bullet and going to finish our basement..
> getting prices for HVAC &amp; Plumbing right now,, not a lot of fun making calls, but thats my job as part time GC
> 
> So I am doing some myself, some sub-contracted like the HVAC, plumbing, sheetrock (ceiling as well)
> ...



Alas, the previous owner of my house was a basement finisher for Owens-Corning so I've never had the need to do any basement work.

But my general rule for construction projects is to allocate $100 off the top for pizza and beer. Get a couple buddies over to work and you'd be amazed how much you can accomplish on the cheap.

I would not recommend mixing alcohol and electrical work but maybe you could get them to visit on Dec5 to do the drywall. Extra hands are useful with drywall. Then invite them to stick around for refreshments and the SEC championship game.


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## chaosiscash (Nov 19, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> Or encourage me to pay a few hundred bucks to have a proffessional do it?


I would have a professional do it if you don't have a lot of electrical experience. Depending on your jurisdiction, you may have to pull a permit/have it inspected.

Where is the existing panel in relation to the proposed subpanel location? Trying to fish #2 through a tight wall space can be a real PITA.


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## FINK_RB_PE (Nov 19, 2009)

My dad is building a house now and he has pricing in sheetrock that ranges from $22-$28 per sheet to finish, as far as the electrical better get a pro, I put in a circuit breaker and a sub pannel for a hot tub at my house and got a nice letter from the town wondering what electrician I used and when could they inspect it. I weased my way out but a couple hundred bucks would have been worth the hassle.

As far as the flooring, I just finished putting down Novalis stick tile flooring in my basement, looks like hardwood flooring, very durable, easy to install and is like $1 per sf.

Best of luck!


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## IlPadrino (Nov 19, 2009)

FINK_RB_PE said:


> I put in a circuit breaker and a sub pannel for a hot tub at my house and got a nice letter from the town wondering what electrician I used and when could they inspect it. I weased my way out but a couple hundred bucks would have been worth the hassle.


How did they know?


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## Supe (Nov 20, 2009)

If you're serious about the stripper pole, let me know. I've done a lot of research on this subject and can tell you which to avoid. Mine will be ordered shortly after the holidays.


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## Road Guy (Nov 20, 2009)

from what my neighbors have told me you can get the sheetrock hung for not much more than it cost to buy it so I am going to go that route and then pay them to also do the mudding, my sheetrock mud experiences havent always been that good....

i'm going to give the sub-panel a shot, the "kit" is only $80 bucks but if it seems like its overly diffucult I will sub it out...

my neighbors put a pole in their basement, but somehow they made it removeable so they only have it up when they have get togethers, i need to go do some investigating of how they did theirs


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## Supe (Nov 20, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> from what my neighbors have told me you can get the sheetrock hung for not much more than it cost to buy it so I am going to go that route and then pay them to also do the mudding, my sheetrock mud experiences havent always been that good....
> i'm going to give the sub-panel a shot, the "kit" is only $80 bucks but if it seems like its overly diffucult I will sub it out...
> 
> my neighbors put a pole in their basement, but somehow they made it removeable so they only have it up when they have get togethers, i need to go do some investigating of how they did theirs



The better ones use a compression fit setup with a silicon pad on the bottom to prevent slippage and an extra wide top cover so it doesn't have to fasten to a ceiling joist. They also have set screws at the base that either anchor them solid or allow it to double as a spinner pole.


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## Chucktown PE (Nov 20, 2009)

^^ whoa, whoa, whoa. Supe, that was an idea that you and I worked on together and I thought we had agreed to patent it. I suppose we could put the patent in EB.com's name and it could forever be known as the EB.com Stipper Pole.


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## FINK_RB_PE (Nov 20, 2009)

IlPadrino said:


> How did they know?


I guess they saw the hot tub during installation, or someone snitched. But i think it is a ordinance that there has to be one within reach of the tub so they assumed one was installed.


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## Supe (Nov 20, 2009)

Chucktown PE said:


> ^^ whoa, whoa, whoa. Supe, that was an idea that you and I worked on together and I thought we had agreed to patent it. I suppose we could put the patent in EB.com's name and it could forever be known as the EB.com Stipper Pole.



Sadly, someone beat us to it, at least in a 3 piece pole version.


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## Santiagj (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm currently finishing my basement as well. Its taking a lot longer than expected. Its just me and the wife. She has been helping me alot and is my second pair of hands. I start falling behind when she has to work evenings cause alot of the stuff takes two people to do.

So far my favorite thing has been installing a full bath rough in. It was sweet. I was stoked to use a concrete saw and a serious hilti jack hammer. I do have prior experience though. In college I used to finish basements. Most of it is pretty easy though and you get way more satisfaction doing it yourself. I would give it a shot first and then call a sub if you get flustered.

I also agree with subbing out the drywall finishing. Spackling is a pain in the butt. I don't get any satisfaction from spackle buggers.


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## humner (Nov 23, 2009)

For my basement floor, I installed the rubber interlocking mats. They have them at Wal-Mart in the excersise area. Made a big difference on my heating and cooling in the house. You don't have to worry about the tiles like other flooring where it warps and pulls up. If the mat becomes worn or damaged, just remove it and snap in a new one. I went with the dual color mats, and just put the black side up. Nice to walk on too.


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## Supe (Nov 23, 2009)

humner said:


> For my basement floor, I installed the rubber interlocking mats. They have them at Wal-Mart in the excersise area. Made a big difference on my heating and cooling in the house. You don't have to worry about the tiles like other flooring where it warps and pulls up. If the mat becomes worn or damaged, just remove it and snap in a new one. I went with the dual color mats, and just put the black side up. Nice to walk on too.



How did the cost work out as compared to tiles?


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## humner (Nov 23, 2009)

Supe said:


> How did the cost work out as compared to tiles?


I don't remember how much I paid for them, had gotten them at Sams club about 4 years ago. I did the whole floor of about 24' x 24' in about 2 hours. Has been down since. Here is a web site I found. http://www.greatmats.com/products/foamspecial.php


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## Road Guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I've got three rooms, one room I am going to score the actual cooncrete basement floor and stain it (not me personally) one of my neighbors did this and it gives a great look, it almost looks like really big tile until you see that its actually the concrete floor, the other room which will be part workout room, part storage I am going to look into some type of rubber mat floor or the floating "fake" hardwood floor.. then I think the room which will be the tv room will just be carpet since it will be the lounging around room....


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## MA_PE (Nov 23, 2009)

I guess it stands to reason, that the pole will be in the workout room.


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## Road Guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I havent decided which room to put the pole in, the workout room will be a little confined, probably need more room for viewing.......


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## Supe (Nov 23, 2009)

I wouldn't put it in the workout room. You don't want bare ass on the workout equipment, that's just screaming for pink eye. Also, heels don't work exceptionally well on a treadmill, and with a swinger pole, there is serious risk of crashing into exercise equipment on an extended leg/inverted maneuver.


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## Dexman1349 (Nov 24, 2009)

Once you get the pole installed, maybe you could host the US Pole Dancing Federation Championship:

Pole Dancing highlights &lt;---it's actually safe for work

These ladies look like they could actually work for Cirque de Soleil


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## Road Guy (Dec 4, 2009)

here are some early on pics, got the sub-panel put in wednesday, $500 bucks, probably well worth it. I ended up working out a decent deal to pay to have all the wiring, switching, can lights installed. HVAC is next week, then I hope to have the plumber come before christmas so I can start on the sheet rock...

(please make fun of the mess in the basement, beleive me this is after 10 trips to the dump, and 20 trips to goodwill.....)

previous owner put these windows in, I am to lazy to reframe but would prefer to have one big opening (wall not load bearing)







this is where the bar will go, as stated above the previous wall kind of restriced what I can do with the bar but I think i can make it work






looking back towards the stairs, you can tell the previous owner finished the recessed area to the left just before flat screen tv's became "economical" he built a recessed area for a 36" tv I think so now I just have to figure out how to hang the tv over this hole






this is going to be a workout room, may try and fit a foosball table, have to clean up the existing hvac and then build a closet around the inside of the room to hide all that crap which is going to reduce the room...






I have to cut a door into the left, behind this wall will be a full bath, still have to clean some junk out of that room, dont think the kids need that tricycle anymore..


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 4, 2009)

Lucky bastard. I don't consider it that much of a basement finishing process if you start with firred out walls and some drywall hung. A house that I'm looking at buying has the foundation walls and some metal columns holding up the first floor. That would be a pain in the ass to finish.


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## Road Guy (Dec 4, 2009)

^-- dont forget the plumbing in the floor was stubbed out as well 

I did frame out some of the walls, honestly I wish I could tear out the one wall (with the windows) and make the rooms much more open

I also get to frame out the ceiling which I think is going to be a pain, going to box out around the hvac to get as much height as I can


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## nashbmattPE (Dec 4, 2009)

why not take the wall out? you will always wish you did and just a little more work and it could be done


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 4, 2009)

nashbmatt said:


> why not take the wall out? you will always wish you did and just a little more work and it could be done


Easier &amp; much cheaper to do it now...


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## mdipuma (Dec 4, 2009)

Looks, good so far! I wish I could have a basement, but it would just be a swimming pool here in New Orleans!


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## EM_PS (Dec 4, 2009)

nice work so far, looks alot like the basement i finished in previous house, and at similar level of 'pre-finishing'. I would totally sledge hammer that wall out, its not load-bearing &amp; the window openings look flat-out gay. my :2cents:


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## Road Guy (Dec 4, 2009)

Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.

I have been sitting in the basement staring at it for an hour or so.

Should I case out a large opening or just take it out completely?

The wall is really cramping my ability to do a pool table. Both rooms are 19' x 14'.


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 4, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.
> I have been sitting in the basement staring at it for an hour or so.
> 
> Should I case out a large opening or just take it out completely?
> ...


If it's only 14' wide, then you won't be able to get a pool table in there comfortably anyway. Pool tables need a surprising amount of space to use correctly.


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## MA_PE (Dec 5, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.
> ...


14 ft wide is OK for a 4x8 table, tight for the typical tournament size 4.5 x 9. Rule of thumb is playing surface and 5 ft clear on either side.

IMHO you really don't want a smaller table than 4 x 8. 7 ft tables just aren't the same.


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## EM_PS (Dec 5, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.
> I have been sitting in the basement staring at it for an hour or so.
> 
> Should I case out a large opening or just take it out completely?
> ...


No cased opening. Its pretty much impossible to avoid the 'shoebox' look of finished basements, but it affords the most usable space. Unless you're popping in bedrooms or a study or the like, go wide open w/ that part of basement.



MA_PE said:


> 14 ft wide is OK for a 4x8 table, tight for the typical tournament size 4.5 x 9. Rule of thumb is playing surface and 5 ft clear on either side.
> IMHO you really don't want a smaller table than 4 x 8. 7 ft tables just aren't the same.


You'll have enough room for 4' pool table, and you got enough depth at 19' for whatever length. My basement is 14' wide, and here is pic of our 4 x 7 pool table - it has minimum of 4' clearance on any given side to closest obstruction - sometimes gets a little tight on the bar-rail side of the table, but i need some 4' cues anyways, for tight shots &amp; the kiddos to take up the sport. I'm kinda liking the idea of a shuffle board table some day, when the kids are older and not using the other half of the rec-room - i'll be at the right age by then!


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 5, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.
> I have been sitting in the basement staring at it for an hour or so.
> 
> Should I case out a large opening or just take it out completely?
> ...



Take it completely out. If you feel there is a need for a partial wall there, it would be easier to rebuild once the original wall is out. Retro-fitting is such a pain in the ass.


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## MA_PE (Dec 5, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > Damn ya'll are right, and I could reuse most all of the wood.
> ...


nice looking game room and nice looking table.

Sorry, I'm just being picky, but I'm not aware of any 4x7 table, the dimensions are the playing surface and aspect ratio should always be 2:1. Standard cues are 57 in. if the playing surface is 4ft and you've got 5ft from the inside edge of the rail and the wall (not necessarily clear between the outside edge of the table and the wall) you should be ok.

For pure perpendicular shots, you need to go to a shorter cue but that's infrequent enough to not make it overly bothersome.

A 7 ft table should have a playing width of 3.5 ft where 14 ft between walls should be just fine.


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## EM_PS (Dec 6, 2009)

yeah you're right, it is 3.5 x 7. Table's same size as my dad's, interestingly i shoot way better on his for some reason, so when you play the house here, the house is generous - though i will destroy all comers in darts (cricket)  . This basement i did not finish, and the pool table we actually negotiated from seller to leave in house. Its a pretty good man-cave, though on other end of room is all the kids's stuff / toys / games, and the mandatory 36" HD tv - and our second christmas tree. A centrally located fireplace completes the room, so i really like being down there any time of year.


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## Road Guy (Dec 7, 2009)

and the wall, came tumbling down... (well not completely, but its going to open up nicely I think)

of course wife is paranoid that I dont know what a load bearing wall is


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## MA_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

Nice. IMHO, you'll be so much happier with that wall gone.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 7, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> and the wall, came tumbling down... (well not completely, but its going to open up nicely I think)
> of course wife is paranoid that I dont know what a load bearing wall is



Load bearing wall? What is this crazy thing you speak of? The only "loads" that walls bear are the pictures and stuff you hang on them. Take the pictures off, done, not a load bearing wall anymore... 

Nicely done. I agree with MA, you will appreciate it more with that wall gone.


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## Santiagj (Dec 7, 2009)

I like how you have really high ceilings. Its going to be nice down there. The problem with my basement is the low ceiling. The headroom I have is 6'8".


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## Capt Worley PE (Dec 7, 2009)

Santiagj said:


> I like how you have really high ceilings. Its going to be nice down there. The problem with my basement is the low ceiling. The headroom I have is 6'8".


I'm not sure I even have that. Plus, during heavy rains, I take a little water on it a few spots.

But, it is great for storage, and the HVAC and plumbing guys love it when they have to wotk on those systems.


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## Road Guy (Dec 7, 2009)

i should have close to 8' I was going to make soffits around the hvac ducts and try and try and have the 9' where I can get it (like a trey ceiling) but if I can get a uniform 8' in most places I may just do that..


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## EM_PS (Dec 7, 2009)

i'd probably go uniform across it, just for ease of install. That is a crazy high basement ceiling - is your basement a walk-out?


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## Road Guy (Dec 7, 2009)

I do have a garage door on the side of the house in the basement but to "walkout" you have to go through whats going to be the unfinished part of the basement. the topo of my yard wouldnt allow you to be able to have a back door from the finished part (there are a pair of windows) though, that would be a nice touch..

hvac is coming wednesday, funny how when you get the first quote you think "thats outrageous!" then you get 3 or 4 more and you say man what a deal that first quote was! I have used the company doing it a couple of other times and been happy so I was glad they were priced competitively..

For doing the ceiling most people are saying i should just go with 2X2's and then reinforce them? what say yall?

I found a sheetrock hoist (or whatever its called) at a pawn shop for $150 bucks, that should make the sheetrock on the ceiling go pretty smooth. It was going to be $40 / day to rent and this way i can take my time (&amp; then either pawn it back, craigslist, or take it to the dump when i'm done) :0


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 7, 2009)

Since the ceiling is already framed for the main floor, 2x2's would be all you need if you can't use the main floor joists. You just need something to attach the sheetrock to. If you plan on any larger than average light fixtures or ceiling fans, I would suggest upping the size of the bracing (like a 2x4 laid flat on either side of the box).

Good call on the sheetrock hoist. Last time I had to hang sheet-rock we ended up contracting out the ceiling portion of it (26' cathedral ceilings in the living room with 45 degree pitching, and the bedrooms had 10' pitched ceilings-4' at the walls).


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## nashbmattPE (Dec 7, 2009)

make sure you put in access panels in the ceiling where you need them. it would be a real pain in the future to have to access some waste or water piping or HVAC without them.


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

Here's a n00b question, but do you have any columns in your basement, or are there load bearing walls in your basement? I toured a house this weekend that I'm thinking about buying that had cylindrical metal columns holding up steel I-beams for structural support of the 1st floor. If I were to put a load bearing wall there, how would I erect such a wall while simultaneously removing the columns and keeping my house standing?


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## nashbmattPE (Dec 7, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Here's a n00b question, but do you have any columns in your basement, or are there load bearing walls in your basement? I toured a house this weekend that I'm thinking about buying that had cylindrical metal columns holding up steel I-beams for structural support of the 1st floor. If I were to put a load bearing wall there, how would I erect such a wall while simultaneously removing the columns and keeping my house standing?


why not include the column in the wall if that is possible and not affect the structure. that way the wall would not have to be built as load bearing and the other thing you would need to consider is if the floor slab could support the increased weight on it from the load bearing wall. the column prob has a deeper footing than the floor slab tkickness is


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## EM_PS (Dec 7, 2009)

frame right around them or pop in some 4x4 posts. The wall actually wouldn't technically be bearing the load - the I-beam &amp; columns do that. (sorry kinda duplicated above post)


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## snickerd3 (Dec 7, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> I found a sheetrock hoist (or whatever its called) at a pawn shop for $150 bucks, that should make the sheetrock on the ceiling go pretty smooth. It was going to be $40 / day to rent and this way i can take my time (&amp; then either pawn it back, craigslist, or take it to the dump when i'm done) :0


we made our own out of 2x4s but a real hoist would have been a lot easier.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 7, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Here's a n00b question, but do you have any columns in your basement, or are there load bearing walls in your basement? I toured a house this weekend that I'm thinking about buying that had cylindrical metal columns holding up steel I-beams for structural support of the 1st floor. If I were to put a load bearing wall there, how would I erect such a wall while simultaneously removing the columns and keeping my house standing?


As stated above, most wall framework will enclose these steel braces (I think a 2x4 wall is thick enough for most, some require 2x6's). Then you haven't changed any of the structural integrity of the building and if you want to tear down the wall in the future, you don't have to re-engineer the bracework.


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## MA_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Here's a n00b question, but do you have any columns in your basement, or are there load bearing walls in your basement? I toured a house this weekend that I'm thinking about buying that had cylindrical metal columns holding up steel I-beams for structural support of the 1st floor. If I were to put a load bearing wall there, how would I erect such a wall while simultaneously removing the columns and keeping my house standing?


The metal columns might only be there to satisfy building code requirements of maximum dimension between supports for a residential structure (and the codes are based on main beams of wood and not steel I-beams).

A friend had a house with a steel main beam with lally columns in the basement. He wanted to put in a pool table and needed to remove a column to do it. He hired a local structural guy that reviewed his house and framing. the engineer concluded that the steel I-beam alone had sufficient capacity to handle the loads and span the full distance. i.e. the lally comun was not necessary. A contractor removed it with no repercussions.

However, in you case you want to put in a wall in the same plane as the columns. As nashbmatt said, I'd just build the columns into the wall and be done. Make the cavity space of the wall the same dimension as the column OD and sheath on either side of it. done.


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> The metal columns might only be there to satisfy building code requirements of maximum dimension between supports for a residential structure (and the codes are based on main beams of wood and not steel I-beams).
> A friend had a house with a steel main beam with lally columns in the basement. He wanted to put in a pool table and needed to remove a column to do it. He hired a local structural guy that reviewed his house and framing. the engineer concluded that the steel I-beam alone had sufficient capacity to handle the loads and span the full distance. i.e. the lally comun was not necessary. A contractor removed it with no repercussions.


That certainly isn't the case with this house. The steel I-beam is actually split into 2 sections because the load bearing walls upstairs are not 1 continuous wall. So the beams actually end in the middle of the room with a column right under where they end. It's bizarre, but I've checked with the structural people at work, and they say it's kosher and quite common.

So do you just cut the top and bottom plates of the wall around the columns? It seems like that would screw with the structural stability of the walls.


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## MA_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> > The metal columns might only be there to satisfy building code requirements of maximum dimension between supports for a residential structure (and the codes are based on main beams of wood and not steel I-beams).
> ...


wil:

Maybe, I'm not following you. I am envisioning a main beam down the center of the house supporting floor joists which span between the main beam and the foundations, perpendicular to the main beam. I believe that you want to make a wall parallel to the main beam and centered on it so that you create two rooms: one in front of the house and the other to the rear dividing the basement. Is that correct?

If so, you really just want to infill between the existing columns. The new wall will not be "load bearing" because it's really just sitting below the existing steel beams which will continue to support the upper floor just as they are now. Your new wall will just cover the columns. I don't think you'll have any problems just putting a couple of fasteners into the bottom flange of the steel beam to hold the top wood framing for the new wall and give it some lateral stability.

hope this helps.


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 7, 2009)

MA_PE said:


> wil:Maybe, I'm not following you. I am envisioning a main beam down the center of the house supporting floor joists which span between the main beam and the foundations, perpendicular to the main beam. I believe that you want to make a wall parallel to the main beam and centered on it so that you create two rooms: one in front of the house and the other to the rear dividing the basement. Is that correct?
> 
> If so, you really just want to infill between the existing columns. The new wall will not be "load bearing" because it's really just sitting below the existing steel beams which will continue to support the upper floor just as they are now. Your new wall will just cover the columns. I don't think you'll have any problems just putting a couple of fasteners into the bottom flange of the steel beam to hold the top wood framing for the new wall and give it some lateral stability.
> 
> hope this helps.


You pretty much got it. I don't know why I was thinking of splitting a wall around the columns instead of just putting a section of wall on either side of it. Brain fart, I guess.

Here's another stupid question. How do you attach the walls in the basement? I read something that said you need 3/4" of "play" between the floor and ceiling for expansion room. So, you nail the baseplate to the floor with concrete nails, but how do you attach the top with that 3/4" gap? Or was that article just BS?


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## humner (Dec 8, 2009)

Hey Wil:

If you are setting up non bearing walls, just put up metal studs. Rent or buy an inexpensive Hilti gun and you can pound out a basement in no time. That is what I did. Mind you, I use mine for a workshop, but I ran about 70' of wall, studded, sheetrock and was able to run the wiring in 3 days. Took longer for the electrician to come in hook it all up and inspect, waited 4 days. We won't go into how long it was for our, ahem, Code Enforcement officer to get there. Also make sure you put a vapor barrier between the studs and your masonry wall.


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## MA_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

as far as leaving a gap to accomodate movement, it would depend on how much movement needs to be accomodated. I think you'd be fine just attaching the top of the wall to the underside of the beam. Sheathing spanning across the columns will provide lateral stability. Similarly, if your ceiling is below the top of the sheet rock it will provide lateral stability also.


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Here's another stupid question. How do you attach the walls in the basement? I read something that said you need 3/4" of "play" between the floor and ceiling for expansion room. So, you nail the baseplate to the floor with concrete nails, but how do you attach the top with that 3/4" gap? Or was that article just BS?


I've never heard of a free-standing stud wall - the article was BS - attaching to the underside of the I-beam will be tough, but however you frame it, run the studs right to your top plate.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> > Here's another stupid question. How do you attach the walls in the basement? I read something that said you need 3/4" of "play" between the floor and ceiling for expansion room. So, you nail the baseplate to the floor with concrete nails, but how do you attach the top with that 3/4" gap? Or was that article just BS?
> ...


I've installed free-floating walls before. Granted, they were in an attic space and weren't very tall. They had to have a 1/2" to 3/4" gap to accomodate the movement of the roof under snow loads. I'll have to look-up the article on how I did it, because I'm horrible in trying to explain it myself.


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## MA_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> > Here's another stupid question. How do you attach the walls in the basement? I read something that said you need 3/4" of "play" between the floor and ceiling for expansion room. So, you nail the baseplate to the floor with concrete nails, but how do you attach the top with that 3/4" gap? Or was that article just BS?
> ...


I'd just drill a couple of holes in the bottom flange of the steel and either use self tapping screw in a pilot hole or some through bolts and nuts.

What's the width of the flange? What is the OD of the lally columns? Would the width of the new wall encompass both the beam and columns or are you going with a typical wall cavity and then some local blockouts for the columns?


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

^yeah true - its just drilling thru 1/4" steel overhead - not gonna be fun. have lots of spare drill bits on hand - how long a span is this Dan?


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> ^yeah true - its just drilling thru 1/4" steel overhead - not gonna be fun. have lots of spare drill bits on hand - how long a span is this Dan?



Center punch + unibit!


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

^truthfully never used one - are they that good? Usually seems like &gt; two trips through that thickness of steel = disposable bit


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> ^truthfully never used one - are they that good? Usually seems like &gt; two trips through that thickness of steel = disposable bit


I love them, and used them almost exclusively when doing automotive fab work. Reason being, a) they never walked much on me, B) no need for pilot holes, c) they are less apt to catch and hang up, especially when you break through, since the flute(s) don't really catch &lt;-- this is a big one, believe me, when your arms are tired, and you're on a ladder with the handle of an 18v drill inches from your nose, d) they will deburr/chamfer the hole for you.


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

Yeah, i see those guys on Orange County choppers using them alot.


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> Yeah, i see those guys on Orange County choppers using them alot.



Thanks for making me hate step drill bits.


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

hatin' on Paulie, Vinny &amp; Mikey?!


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> hatin' on Paulie, Vinny &amp; Mikey?!


That show has more hacks than a timber sports contest.


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

correction: richer than you'll (or I'll) ever be hacks :bawling:


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## Chucktown PE (Dec 8, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> of course wife is paranoid that I dont know what a load bearing wall is


RG, I can't tell if you're kidding here or not. In case you aren't, that wall does not appear to be load bearing.


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> correction: richer than you'll (or I'll) ever be hacks :bawling:



At least I have my dignity. And I don't have a butt chin.


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## MA_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

So the choice is:

dignity and nobutt chin vs. megadollars.

I'll have to think about that and get back to you.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 8, 2009)

Buttchin can be covered up with a beard. I'm such a smartass I don't think I have much dignity left, just give me the cash...


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

matrix_PS said:


> ^yeah true - its just drilling thru 1/4" steel overhead - not gonna be fun. have lots of spare drill bits on hand - how long a span is this Dan?


I dunno. This is all hypothetical since I haven't bought the house and don't have a stud wall layout even if I did buy it.


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

Supe said:


> matrix_PS said:
> 
> 
> > correction: richer than you'll (or I'll) ever be hacks :bawling:
> ...


Oh yeah, well speak to the Hasselhoff!



wilheldp_PE said:


> matrix_PS said:
> 
> 
> > ^yeah true - its just drilling thru 1/4" steel overhead - not gonna be fun. have lots of spare drill bits on hand - how long a span is this Dan?
> ...


your quandry has grown tiresome - Next basement finishing question! (please let it be about pool tables or dart boards)


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## Supe (Dec 8, 2009)

What about dart boards? I've got a Halex competition board set up in my living room!


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

Union Jack Tournament Board -


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## MA_PE (Dec 8, 2009)

Olhausen 8ft pool table


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## EM_PS (Dec 8, 2009)

Fischer 7ft pool table


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## Road Guy (Dec 10, 2009)

HVAC went in yesterday! other than them being a little late it worked out good and I didnt lose any more ceiling height.

Hope to get enough of the plumbing done this weekend so that I can start putting some sheetrock down.. but right now I am the hold up in the critical path having to frame out the ceilings / soffits / etc....


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2009)

well i spent most of the weekend working on a "test room" for the ceiling frameout, much more of a pain in the ass than I expected. I have a small backroom that I was able to tryout my mad framing skills on before getting to the larger rooms...

I found that 2X2's are just to flimsy to use so went with 2X4's. Also after digging through several bins of 2X4X14's at Home Depot and Lowes trying to find straight ones I ended up getting 2X4X8's and just nailing them together, it was incredibly impossible to find the longer lenghts straight enough to do the task. The 2X6X14's were straight enough but just not worth the hassle to carry around..

I bought one of those cheaper spinning laser levels (maybe the more expensive ones are better but it was very flimsy and I really dont think it was anymore accurate than just using a regular level and a tape measure) so I ended up just measuring down from the floor joists and using a 4' level. I must have spent several un-needed hours trying to get the bubble _exactly perfect_, then I went upstairs and laid the level on parts of my existing ceiling and realized that its not perfect either (&amp; not noticeable) still trying to get it fairly "perfect" but I am probably going to wish I had subbed this out (but I need to save the money for extra bar features  )

I hate starting a project because thats all I can think about is working on it and getting it finished, today at lunch I was pondering... hmm if I go home at lunch I can probably complete 2 or 3 more ceiling joists......

what i really dread is cutting out the holes for the electrical boxes and light fixtures, I always end up screwing those up....


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## Supe (Dec 14, 2009)

Try a local lumber yard. I gave up entirely on Lowes/Home Cheapo when building a shed in my backyard in regards to straight lumber. It'll save a LOT of headache.


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 14, 2009)

Supe said:


> Try a local lumber yard. I gave up entirely on Lowes/Home Cheapo when building a shed in my backyard in regards to straight lumber. It'll save a LOT of headache.


The only other way to get straight lumber is to buy a full bunk that is still bound and is near the bottom of the stack. It also helps if you can find a bunk that hasn't been out in the elements (even if it was covered with a tarp) in which case you can just pull what you need. This is easier to find in the larger and newer versions of HD or Lowes, but the older &amp; smaller ones is impossible.

The HD down the road from my house is only 8-10 years old and was built with a completely indoor drive-thru lumber section. Even the delivery trucks unload inside. I've never had issues finding straight lumber there.


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2009)

i think they have all been run out of town by the big box stores


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## jeb6294 (Dec 14, 2009)

Supe said:


> Try a local lumber yard. I gave up entirely on Lowes/Home Cheapo when building a shed in my backyard in regards to straight lumber. It'll save a LOT of headache.


There used to be one down the road that was a nice find. It was more expensive but the wood was better and if you ordered more than a certain dollar figure, I think it was $100, they would deliver it for free. They went out of business a few years ago...they were able to survive HD, but once the new Lowes went in their days were numbered.

Do your HD's and Lowes have different grades of lumber? I think some of them have lumber that's a little more expensive but it's supposed to be a little higher quality.


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2009)

the other two rooms I have to have 14' length, I am going to go look and see if they make metal studs in that length?

there used to be a Lummus Building Supply in acworth, I am going to look and see, but I only need 40 or 50 of them, i guess thats worth delivering (to them)?


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## Dexman1349 (Dec 14, 2009)

Most genuine lumber stores (including SOME HD's and Lowes) have different lumber grades. The higher grades do command higher prices, but once you factor in the headaches of un-warping the low-quality boards, the extra $ is usually worth it.


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2009)

I will check that out as well, both the HD &amp; Lowes around me are fairly new but I only saw one section of untreated 2X4's.


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## jeb6294 (Dec 14, 2009)

jeb6294 said:


> There used to be one down the road that was a nice find. It was more expensive but the wood was better and if you ordered more than a certain dollar figure, I think it was $100, they would deliver it for free. They went out of business a few years ago...they were able to survive HD, but once the new Lowes went in their days were numbered.
> Do your HD's and Lowes have different grades of lumber? I think some of them have lumber that's a little more expensive but it's supposed to be a little higher quality.





Dexman1349 said:


> Most genuine lumber stores (including SOME HD's and Lowes) have different lumber grades. The higher grades do command higher prices, but once you factor in the headaches of un-warping the low-quality boards, the extra $ is usually worth it.


The funny thing is that to get the same quality lumber at HD or Lowes ended up costing pretty much the same because you'd have to buy the better 2x4's to get what you were getting at the local yard, and then yo got the free delivery to boot. I suppose you can rent the HD flat bed pick-up truck for $19.95 an hour...does that count as delivery?


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2009)

in all reality nailing together two 2x4x8's was actually pretty easy, they fit in my trailer better and are easier to get into the basement. probably not the way the "real builders" do it, but it may work out easier than going store to store, cause I honestly dont think there is a mom &amp; pop lumber store anywhere near my house...


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## Supe (Dec 14, 2009)

Road Guy said:


> in all reality nailing together two 2x4x8's was actually pretty easy, they fit in my trailer better and are easier to get into the basement. probably not the way the "real builders" do it, but it may work out easier than going store to store, cause I honestly dont think there is a mom &amp; pop lumber store anywhere near my house...



Some are contractor-only, which stinks.

Back in CT, I found not only was the wood cheaper at the lumber yard, but it took a matter of minutes to pick out straight boards, and I didn't even have to sift through, their staff did that for me. I picked everything up in my truck (8ft bed.)


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## humner (Dec 14, 2009)

I bought one of those cheaper spinning laser levels

I guess you never heard of using a garden hose with a 2' to 3' piece of clear tubing on each end. Best level you can have for doing a dropped ceiling. The hose is filled with water, about halfway up each clear tube. Simple corks can be put in each end until you are ready to use the level. Don't remove them until they are near the working height.. I use a dry erase marker to mark one tube. Then have someone hold it to wall where you want the ceiling to be at mark level(Taping to a broom stick makes it easier to hold in place). Walk the other end around the room, at the water level, mark the wall. Remember, water seeks its own level. Note: make sure the air bubbles are all out of the hose too.


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## nashbmattPE (Dec 16, 2009)

any more progress on the basement RG?


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## Road Guy (Dec 19, 2009)

I am slowly working on the ceiling and boxing out around the hvac, plumber had to reschedule he was supposed to run the new lines ans install tub so I could go ahead nx frame out the bathroom but he couldn't make it Friday, which worked out cause we left early to go out of town.

I am hoping to get some time ove the holidays to finish the ceiling frameout and then start screwing with the Sheetrock in January...


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## Road Guy (Dec 19, 2009)

I am slowly working on the ceiling and boxing out around the hvac, plumber had to reschedule he was supposed to run the new lines ans install tub so I could go ahead nx frame out the bathroom but he couldn't make it Friday, which worked out cause we left early to go out of town.

I am hoping to get some time ove the holidays to finish the ceiling frameout and then start screwing with the Sheetrock in January...


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## Road Guy (Dec 28, 2009)

I dont know why i end up doing this but I have been working on this on and off, a lot of times when the wife is asleep (she works nights) so i end up doing the framing with a cordless screw driver, which works but isnt efficient.. so this past weekend she has to work and kids are at grandmas so I am wasting time with the screw gun, and then I think to myself, damn I own a framing nail gun, so it was amazing how much quicker things go with a framing nail gun!

also I those quick clamps are a life saver when your trying to hang 14' lumber over your head, only dropped one 2x4x14 on my head, yeah that still hurts.. I have framed out all the ceiling i can until I get a plumber in here.. so damn aggrevating calling people to get estimates, arranging to meet them, etc, etc, etc,

well here are some picture updates:

this is a shot showing some of the ceiling and frame out for the hvac, very much a pain in the ass







same thing just looking back the other way






this is the backroom, where the other hvac, hot water heater and stuff is






opening into where the shitter will be, and a shot of the new heat pump..


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## nashbmattPE (Jan 4, 2010)

coming along


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## Road Guy (Jan 4, 2010)

well I have been thinking about the basement bathroom.. the builder roughed it in in an odd place, the way it is the toilet opening is only 30" from the wall, so I can either have a open out door, and then a small sink, and then the toilet, or have it really bass akwards and have a door that opens into the bathroom, then you will hit the toilet first, tub on the right, and then the sink after the toilet..

after thinking about this I am thinking about changing the layout (doing some sawcutting of the basement floor) and putting the toilet where it should?

I dont think the extra plumbing will cost me much to move it if I do the cutting and digging myself?

here's my layout, its a crappy scan,,, need to get it into a cad package ..


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## jeb6294 (Jan 4, 2010)

I'll have to see if I can find this simple little program I used when I wanted to draw up plans for my basement. It's like a really basic CAD program that lets you place furniture and then you can flip the whole thing and see it in 3-D. I wouldn't use it to do any precise design work but it is a nice way to get an idea as to how your layouts going to look.


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 4, 2010)

I think Google Sketch-up might be what you are thinking of. I guy I went to college with works for Google in Boulder, and they just released a new version.


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## Santiagj (Jan 5, 2010)

Putting a rough in is not that difficult especially in a new house where you have pvc. I just put in a rough in in my basement several months ago. My house was built in 54 so i had a cast iron stack I was tapping into. It wasnt hard at all. Took me and my dad a day and a half. I was able to borrow a concrete saw and a jackhammer. The rental costs shouldn't be that much. In total I spent less than 200 bucks. I would recommend spending the time and moving the toilet to a proper space. You will be wishing you had once you have the basement done and by then its too late.

If I had to redo it again I would forgo the concrete saw. It was nice because it made clean cuts but the dust it kicked up was phenominal even when it was being wetted down. I don't think it is worth it. You can do the whole thing with a jackhammer and you won't have to wear a respirator. The concrete is going to be covered up so who cares if there is an ugly seem in the concrete.


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## MA_PE (Jan 5, 2010)

So that's your current layout? Why can't you use a pocket door opening to the right (behind the tub) and leave it the way it is? Bi-fold door is also an option. Agreed you don't want a full door opening out and hitting the toilet going in would annoy me, too.


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## Chucktown PE (Jan 5, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> I think Google Sketch-up might be what you are thinking of. I guy I went to college with works for Google in Boulder, and they just released a new version.



^^ Agreed. Super easy to use to.


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## Road Guy (Jan 5, 2010)

I used to have micorstation on my work pc but it got taken off


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## Dexman1349 (Jan 5, 2010)

I used to have a bootleg copy of AutoCAD 2002 around here somewhere...


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## Road Guy (Jan 5, 2010)

last night I had two boards I needed to finish that had been bugging me, on the first nail the nailgun blew the nail straight through the 2x4 and into a water line, causing a damn mess... luckily it was to a guest bathroom so I was able to just cap the line but the 5 minutes I thought it would take will now be an hour or so to repair.... such is life I guess


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## jeb6294 (Jan 5, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> I think Google Sketch-up might be what you are thinking of. I guy I went to college with works for Google in Boulder, and they just released a new version.


I'll have to check that one out.

The one I'm thinking of is Home 3D or something like that. It is on one floppy so there isn't much to it. I'm trying to remember if you can find it online somewhere.


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## FLBuff PE (Feb 3, 2010)

Any updates, RG?


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## Road Guy (Feb 3, 2010)

yeah I owe ya'll some pics..

plumbing is all roughed in, tub is in, electrical is mostly in. I will try and get some pics tonight, I may actually be ready to start putting sheetrock on the ceiling this weekend if I get time..

I had to put up a new wall in the bathroom and found out when I set it I am out 1.5 inches.. very annoying I measured at least 5 times,, its the wall behind the tub so I hate to move it,, think anyone (but me) will notice 1.5 inches out of whack? all the walls or level, I must have just bumped it when I nailed it to the floor or something...


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## FLBuff PE (Feb 3, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> yeah I owe ya'll some pics..
> plumbing is all roughed in, tub is in, electrical is mostly in. I will try and get some pics tonight, I may actually be ready to start putting sheetrock on the ceiling this weekend if I get time..
> 
> I had to put up a new wall in the bathroom and found out when I set it I am out 1.5 inches.. very annoying I measured at least 5 times,, its the wall behind the tub so I hate to move it,, think anyone (but me) will notice 1.5 inches out of whack? all the walls or level, I must have just bumped it when I nailed it to the floor or something...


I hate stuff like that. When I built my deck, I cut the Trex to the length I needed, but it's about 1/2" short. Bugs the hell out of me, but no one else knows. Plus, I was able to hide it by putting some planters that I built on top of it. Is it worth the aggravation to pull the wall out and re-set? I don't know. Is it going to throw you off on the rest of the project?


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## Road Guy (Feb 3, 2010)

i've got some busted pieces of sheetrock and i was going to put a test peice of sheetrock on the ceiling and see how it looks, I wouldnt have even noticed it but for the bathroom instead of building the ceiling piece meal (one 2X4 at a time) I framed it out on the floor and then nailed it up and then I was like...... shit.....................

I found a plumber who agreed to let me work with him and save me a few bucks and learn some stuff too, it was actually pretty neat.

I ended up jackhammering the floor to move the toilet drain, havent filled the concrete in yet, but it was actually a lot of fun (&amp; me doing it saved $250 bucks)


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## Dexman PE (Feb 3, 2010)

Have you seen the show on DIY network "10Grand in Your Hand"?


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## Dexman PE (Feb 3, 2010)

I know my wife would tell me that it's no big deal, but the fact I knew it was there and I had the chance to fix it would bug the shit out of me. I would fix it.


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## Road Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

alright here are some pics, been a while, doesnt seem like muchh has progressed but mainly been working on plumbing and electrical, and finishing out the ceiling framing(PIA)

picture of my trey ceiling work and the can lights I put in earlier this week







here is where the bar is going, havent decided on cabinets yet..






here is my bar "design" since the custome cabinets at lowes and home depot were about $4500 were going with some off the shelf stuff from Builders Supply or maybe even Ikea..






its hard to get a decent shot of the bathroom but this kind of shows it (&amp; yes I am a sloppy worker)






here is my pride and joy! the big hole i jack-hammered in the basement to move the toilet...






I hope I get time to finish out the ceiling frameout and put some rock on this weekend...


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## Santiagj (Feb 4, 2010)

Jack hammers are awesome! I would buy one just to have it if my wife let me.


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## Chucktown PE (Feb 4, 2010)

Nick work RG. Are you for hire? I'm hoping I'll have a house I need help finishing in the next hour.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 4, 2010)

Aren't you supposed to drywall the ceiling first so that the wall drywall helps to hold it up over time? That's what the DIY channel told me anyway.

The plumber is coming today to give me a quote on the installation of a full bathroom rough-in in the basement. Right now, it will just be the drains and maybe the vents. I will decide later if I want him to run the water pipes for me once I get the stud walls up.


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## Road Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

yeah your supposed to do the ceiling first, in the one room the sheetrock was already there, previous owner was going to do a drop ceiling.

I had to sheetrock around the tub to get it set with the green sheetrock


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## humner (Feb 4, 2010)

Okay, so I am not submitting a different thread, and the people who might know about it are reading here...... I am planning on building my house with "TF Forms" which are an integrated concrete form (ICF). Has anyone used these or seen them in construction?


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 8, 2010)

Yeah, so I've been implementing my basement refinishing plan over the last month or so. I had my plumber rough in a full bathroom, then I wired up some can lights, some buddies and I framed the whole thing in 13 hours on a Saturday, I finished the rest of the electrical by myself, my mom and I insulated the whole thing, and the plumber came back to run the water pipes and set the tub/shower surround. The drywallers started hanging drywall today.

That's where the real fun began... Turns out that they missed a floor joist by about an eighth inch, and nicked a copper pipe. If it were a water line, my plumber would have come out and patched it for a six-pack or something. Turns out it was the refrigerant return line for the air conditioner. All 8 lbs of R-22 leaked out. It's going to cost about $370 to patch the line and re-charge the system. The drywaller is going to eat the cost (splitting it between him and the guy he contracted to hang it). I may kick in some to cover his overages since he is cutting me a deal on the whole drywall project (since I fronted him some money when he was slow this winter). It sucks that such a simple mistake can cause that much damage.


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## maryannette (Apr 8, 2010)

When I was growing up, we had basements, but the first house I ever lived in had a coal cellar.


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## MA_PE (Apr 9, 2010)

mary :) said:


> When I was growing up, we had basements, but the first house I ever lived in had a coal cellar.


It must have been really cool when you first got electric lights, huh?

I'm sorry Mary, I couldn't resist. I think you know, you and I are about the same age.


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## maryannette (Apr 9, 2010)

HA HA HA HA


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 9, 2010)

MA_PE said:


> mary :) said:
> 
> 
> > When I was growing up, we had basements, but the first house I ever lived in had a coal cellar.
> ...


I need to get me one of those horseless carriages so I can go buy them newfangled electric thingies... ldtimer:


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## maryannette (Apr 9, 2010)

You shutup, VTE!


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## NCcarguy (Apr 9, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I used to have micorstation on my work pc but it got taken off



FYI...You can download Microstation and use it up to 15 minutes at a time, and since it saves as you go....you just open the drawing back up. Not all the bad really.

Good work on the renovations though!


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## Road Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

well.... here are some updates, seems like I havent really gotten that far, sheetrocking ceilings by yourself, is tough, and SLOW!


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## Road Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

okay those are a little small..


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 13, 2010)

I started way after you did, and I'm farther along. But that's probably because I hired out the drywall hanging, and have some buddies that know how to frame.


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## Road Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

yes, I have just not had much time the last month it seems, I need one good weekend and I will be done with the rock and will be ready to hire someone to mud it.

I am hoping it will go pretty fast after that, not shown but the ceiling to the bathroom is done and rocked, the back room is all rocked.

I wasted a week trying to find the flexible gas line to supply gas to the kitchen before I finished the ceiling under it (we didnt have gas in the current kitchen for some reason and I wanted to be able to have it there whenever I get around to doing that project) thats the yellow thing you see in the picture I need to trim back


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 13, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> yes, I have just not had much time the last month it seems, I need one good weekend and I will be done with the rock and will be ready to hire someone to mud it.
> I am hoping it will go pretty fast after that, not shown but the ceiling to the bathroom is done and rocked, the back room is all rocked.
> 
> I wasted a week trying to find the flexible gas line to supply gas to the kitchen before I finished the ceiling under it (we didnt have gas in the current kitchen for some reason and I wanted to be able to have it there whenever I get around to doing that project) thats the yellow thing you see in the picture I need to trim back


Yeah, I had my plumber install the gas line to my kitchen and my fireplace while he was already down there doing the rough-in. I don't mess around with natural gas lines in my house.


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## Road Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

I am just putting it in place so it will be there when I need to hook it up but am not doing the actual hookup.

my house had the flex gas lines throughout, it turned out to be a commercial product, not very cheap but made roughin in very easy and i didnt have to have a plumber do it, i have 30 extra feet if anyone needs any...

do you mind how much you paid for "mudding" I have had quotes from $900(me buying the mud) to $2500 (which I cant fathom).. I didnt get a real "warm &amp; fuzzy" from the $900 guy to be honest..

I have about 800 SF of space, with those extra corners (trey type ceiling) which I have found take more time and money to do...


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## Dexman PE (Apr 13, 2010)

If you're paying $900 to get "warm &amp; fuzzy" with the mud guy, I would seriously reconsider many aspects of your life...


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## snickerd3 (Apr 13, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I am just putting it in place so it will be there when I need to hook it up but am not doing the actual hookup.
> my house had the flex gas lines throughout, it turned out to be a commercial product, not very cheap but made roughin in very easy and i didnt have to have a plumber do it, i have 30 extra feet if anyone needs any...
> 
> do you mind how much you paid for "mudding" I have had quotes from $900(me buying the mud) to $2500 (which I cant fathom).. I didnt get a real "warm &amp; fuzzy" from the $900 guy to be honest..
> ...


somewhere in the upper middle range might be best, unless you don't care how well the seems come out. mudding ceilings sucks...thats why most people end up putting a texture on it.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 13, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I am just putting it in place so it will be there when I need to hook it up but am not doing the actual hookup.
> my house had the flex gas lines throughout, it turned out to be a commercial product, not very cheap but made roughin in very easy and i didnt have to have a plumber do it, i have 30 extra feet if anyone needs any...
> 
> do you mind how much you paid for "mudding" I have had quotes from $900(me buying the mud) to $2500 (which I cant fathom).. I didnt get a real "warm &amp; fuzzy" from the $900 guy to be honest..
> ...


I'm paying a guy $2400 to provide, hang, mud, tape, texture, and prime 2800+ sq. ft. of drywall. You could say I'm getting a deal.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 22, 2010)

Tiles are grouted. They look better than they did pre-grout, but there are still a lot of screw-ups in there.

So...I was going around installing faceplates on electric outlets, switches, and coax cable today. I hooked up the cable faceplates in the gym and pool room, then I went to the theater. No coax box. WTF, mate? I know I ran the cable to a box in there. So I go back and check my pictures in that room, and sure 'nuff, there's a gang box with a coax cable in it one stud to the left of the receptacle and other A/V cables. The drywallers put drywall right over the box. I measured 16" over from the space between the other two boxes, and poked a hole with my keyhole saw. But it was on the wrong side of the stud. I tried it again 2" to the right, and found the box. Now I have a damned 1/2" square hole in the drywall that I have to patch.


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## snickerd3 (May 23, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Tiles are grouted. They look better than they did pre-grout, but there are still a lot of screw-ups in there.
> So...I was going around installing faceplates on electric outlets, switches, and coax cable today. I hooked up the cable faceplates in the gym and pool room, then I went to the theater. No coax box. WTF, mate? I know I ran the cable to a box in there. So I go back and check my pictures in that room, and sure 'nuff, there's a gang box with a coax cable in it one stud to the left of the receptacle and other A/V cables. The drywallers put drywall right over the box. I measured 16" over from the space between the other two boxes, and poked a hole with my keyhole saw. But it was on the wrong side of the stud. I tried it again 2" to the right, and found the box. Now I have a damned 1/2" square hole in the drywall that I have to patch.


that happened to my inlaws whole house when they hired a drywall contracter. they actually cut out maybe 1 for every 4 they missed. FIL was not a happy camper, but that's what happens when you go with the dirt cheap bid.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 23, 2010)

Dexman PE said:


> If you're paying $900 to get "warm &amp; fuzzy" with the mud guy, I would seriously reconsider many aspects of your life...


I seen a new email signature at work in my future...


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## wilheldp_PE (May 23, 2010)

snickerd3 said:


> that happened to my inlaws whole house when they hired a drywall contracter. they actually cut out maybe 1 for every 4 they missed. FIL was not a happy camper, but that's what happens when you go with the dirt cheap bid.


Yeah...I guess I should just be happy that it was only 1 out of about 30.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 24, 2010)

Painted trim and doors today. The trim was a piece of cake. The doors sucked donkey balls. Cleaning up oil based paint FUCKING SUCKS! My mom got over here a little before 8:30, and we finished up at 4:30. That's not really what I would call a day off. Plus, I have to put another coat of paint on the door slabs because for some reason, they were primed with an off-white primer instead of white...so the white paint didn't cover in one coat.


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## klk (May 24, 2010)

Sorry to hear you're not having fun. Why are you using oil based paint?

We decided to paint all of the trim in our house white, but because our doors were already white, we didn't think we'd have to paint them. It was only after we painted a bunch of trim and started rehanging the doors that we realized the doors were actually off white. Ended up having to paint all of the doors as well. Husband was not happy.

And when I use the term "we" in the above paragraph, I mean my husband - he doesn't like me to help paint because I'm not very good at it.


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## wilheldp_PE (May 24, 2010)

The guy at the paint store recommended oil-based for trim and doors because it dries harder. It will definitely be a nice finish, but damn, it's a pain in the ass to clean up. All of the walls have been latex. I don't know what the ceiling is because the can is just labeled "Ceiling White".


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## Road Guy (May 30, 2010)

well i finally resolved my plumbing leak today..

for those following along i was on hold finishin the ceiling (my last 4 pieces of sheetrock) because i had a small leak coming down the drain line that drains my upstairs of the house (2nd floor) I had been thinking I was going to have to tear apart my bathroom floor to find it...

well today, clumsey me knocked a picture my wife had hung on the wall downstairs (years ago) and when it fell off I noticed behind the picture was all kinds of mold... so the good news is that found the leak.. bad news is that I dont think the builder left me room to install a coupling, the drain pipe sits in between an interior wall (post mother f87898! smiley here)

anyways, I am glad I at least found it, and I need to tell my wife the stud finders also will locate PVC pipes behind the wall as well....


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## wilheldp_PE (May 30, 2010)

Just be glad it was a plumbing pipe instead of a refrigerant line for your HVAC. One is a $100 fix from a plumber...the other is a $400+ fix from an HVAC repairman.


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## Road Guy (Jun 1, 2010)

if it makes you feel better I did have a $396 dollar visit from an HVAC person last week?

The hole is less than 1/8" I wonder if there is some type of plug, glue, etc that I could use instead of cutting the pipe? If I put in a standard connector / splice there isnt room to accomodate the extra width and the sheetrock will stick out......


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## Dexman PE (Jun 1, 2010)

use a piece of electrical tape. It'll stick for a little while...

You could also get creative with a soldering iron and some spare plastic.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 1, 2010)

Dexman PE said:


> use a piece of electrical tape. It'll stick for a little while...
> You could also get creative with a soldering iron and some spare plastic.



You can actually weld PVC fairly easily. I used to weld PVC when I worked at a hydraulics lab. It's just a high temperature air jet and some fillet rods.


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## Dexman PE (Jun 1, 2010)

and since it's a drain line and not pressurized, you just have to plug the hole.


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## roadwreck (Jun 1, 2010)

There's nothing duct tape can't fix!

Have you considered chewing gum as an alternative?


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## Paul S (Jun 1, 2010)

That is a great excuse to use next time you do not want to hang a picture!


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## MA_PE (Jun 1, 2010)

Is this a leak in a straight run of vertical drain pipe?

What would cause a non-pressure pipe to crack on a vertical run?

Why would it leak at all unless the pipe gets filled up to the point where the hole is? Does the stack get filled to there enough to make it leak? sure water runs down the inside of the pipe but gravity makes it go DOWN. What makes it go sideways through the wall?

I would think PVC adhesive (which is a PVC solvent) would be enough to close the hole. I wouldn't expect much stress in the wall so an area with less thickness shouldn't matter.

I still confused as to 1) where the hole came from and 2) why it leaks enough to cause a drip and mold.

It's not adding up to me yet.


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## Chucktown PE (Jun 1, 2010)

MA_PE said:


> Is this a leak in a straight run of vertical drain pipe?
> What would cause a non-pressure pipe to crack on a vertical run?
> 
> Why would it leak at all unless the pipe gets filled up to the point where the hole is? Does the stack get filled to there enough to make it leak? sure water runs down the inside of the pipe but gravity makes it go DOWN. What makes it go sideways through the wall?
> ...



The hole came from a nail which was used for hanging the picture.


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## Road Guy (Jun 1, 2010)

MA

years ago my wife hung several pictures and drove a nail into the pvc pipe. so thats where the leak came from. I think the nail had worked it self out at some point in time.

I guess the kids long showers and the washing machine running provide enough for leak, I am sure toilet paper and other "shit" getting stuck on the nail caused some of the leakeage.. yeah thats gross..

it is a vertical 3" PVC drain pipe, I would be very happy to try the pvc solvent and glue and see what happens. But nonetheless I am just happy the leak was found so i can finish up the sheetrock in the basement now, which had been on hold once i noticed the drip, drip, drip...


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## MA_PE (Jun 1, 2010)

gotcha.

Actually the nalil makes sense as water might wick along the nail and drip to the outside.

I think you'll be fine with an "adhesive" patch there. You might get a scrap piece of pvc and shave some filings to mix with some PVC solvent cement and make a plug.

another fix would be a piece of rubber/epdm membrane wrapped around the pipe over the hole and secure with a hose clamp band.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 17, 2010)

I declare my basement substantially complete. I got the last bits of painting done today, hung the shower curtain in the bathroom, and installed the cabinet door over the electrical panel. I'm forkin' exhausted, but it looks pretty good. I sure am glad it's over.


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## MA_PE (Jul 18, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I declare my basement substantially complete. I got the last bits of painting done today, hung the shower curtain in the bathroom, and installed the cabinet door over the electrical panel. I'm forkin' exhausted, but it looks pretty good. I sure am glad it's over.


congrats wil. it is always a relief when things are finally complete.


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## Master slacker (Jul 18, 2010)

Awesome pics, wil!


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 18, 2010)

I want to get it cleaned up a little bit before I take the final "after" pictures.


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## Master slacker (Jul 19, 2010)

Just take it now. I can imagine it clean.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm curious as to why you are so interested. My basement does not have breasts.


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## Sschell (Jul 19, 2010)

^the board lets out a collective sigh of disappointment.


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## Master slacker (Jul 19, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I'm curious as to why you are so interested. My basement does not have breasts.


DAMMIT! ldman:


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## Ble_PE (Jul 19, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> I'm curious as to why you are so interested. My basement does not have breasts.


Then what are you waiting for, go out and get you some breasts to fill it up with and then take pics!


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## Master slacker (Jul 19, 2010)

dirty pillows!


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## Dexman PE (Jul 20, 2010)

Don't worry wil, my basement doesn't have breasts either...


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## Road Guy (Jul 20, 2010)

well I am obvioulsy lagging behind, but my mudders came and taped everythign one day last week, then they are supposed to come back tomorrow to mud, I am hoping they can finish it this week, of course I aint really looking forward to painting... I'll try and get some updated pics (not scared) it did transform fairly nicely once all the sheetrock got finished!

I thought that wiring for the tv on the wall woudl have been easy, but it took me a couple hours to run all the hdmi, component cables, etc and try and make it look clean...


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## Road Guy (Aug 13, 2010)

here are some post mud pics but these were taken before sanding.. after going through about 5 different no shows for the sheetrock finishing finally found a really good guy to mud &amp; as an added benefit he spoke english!

I still have a long haul to go..I feel much further ahead with this out of the way, if you get bored and want to paint this weekend let me know


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## wilheldp_PE (Aug 13, 2010)

Painting SUCKS. I'm glad mine's done and I don't have to worry about it any more.


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## Road Guy (Aug 23, 2010)

well i am almost through with the primer ( 2 weekends) I have been using a 12" roller and it really makes a huge difference in time (standard is 9") I tried using an 18" roller but its just not very effectice.. painting ceilings does suck, i'm doing 2 coats on the primer hoping it will save me some time when I paint the actual colors (assuming mrs road guy will hurry up and pick the damn colors out....)


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## Master slacker (Aug 23, 2010)

My favorite primer for the ceiling is Sherwin-Williams Classic 90 (I believe that's what it is). I had some stains on my ceilings from previous owners and a single coat of this paint masked it and it's perfect white.


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## Road Guy (Nov 8, 2010)

well just to prove I have worked on this project a little since the last update.. (3 kids playing baseball /softball will get in the way of your home improvement list)

these are the wifes colors btw











this pre-wired hang on the wall tv / surround sound shit has been more of a PIA than I thought..






bathroom tub/shower tile job, had a guy willing to do it for $200, would have been well worth the money...






another pic of same thing






I wasnt wild about the two tone look but think it turned out okay..


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## MA_PE (Nov 8, 2010)

looking good. I would have paid the tile guy $200 without even blinking. Ceiling looks great.


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 8, 2010)

I might be starting the whole process over again. My mom had me come over and sketch/measure their basement. I'm going to give them a CAD drawing of it so they can plan what they want. I hope they pay people to do most of it.


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## Sschell (Nov 8, 2010)

WOW! lookin good.


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## Road Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

okay for the below photo, I kind of have a screw up, down at the bottom where the tile ends, I stopped the tile short so I could have room to put in the switch plate, but at the bottom I can either:

1.) Put in two really small pieces of tile next to edge of tub (near floor)

2.) Tile the grids marked on the wall over to where the door will be

3.) Tile the entire wall around the door

I think all three options will look bad, but cant figure out which will look the least bad? I am leaning towards Option No.2


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 9, 2010)

I think option #2 with some bullnose tiles on the top edge would look the least bad. However, I would suggest measuring the trim around the door that you plan on putting there and stopping the tile where that trim will end. Otherwise, you are going to have to notch the trim around the tiles to get it to sit flush at the drywall.


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## Road Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

yes I was actually thinking if I go with #2 to come back and do those tiles after I hung the door so I could butt it up right next to the trim

that little hole where the tub spout comes out, It took me 4 tries to get that hole to cut without cracking the tile.. with a $30 carbide tipped hole saw bit...

Note I havent done the wiring from my "free electrical help thread yet" 

next Tuesday I have the folks coming to score and stain the concrete floors, I hope I am on the short path cause I am so so so freaking tired of working on this!


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 9, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I am so so so freaking tired of working on this!


I can imagine. You started before I did, and I finished about 3 months ago. I was tired as hell of working on it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 9, 2010)

Does that light switch meet code that close to the shower/tub?


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## Road Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

^- Dont ask questions like that!

Its on a GFI---- But I did get an electrical permit when I had the sub panel put in and it was in my "architectural" plans I developed on green graph paper......

That was another mistake, I wanted to get the permit on just the sub panel, but of course they took a look at everything in my damn house! Only reason I did it was when I did a previous basement at my old house, not as elaborate as this one, a lot of the potential buyers at the time didnt like that I had added onto the main box without pulling a permit, so this time I wanted to get that stupid sticker


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## MA_PE (Nov 9, 2010)

My 0.02 on your tile dilemma is pretty much what Will said . Option 1. Put a row of bullnose tile and stop the tile where it is, or Option 2 tile to meet the door trim and finish any remainig exposed edges with bull nose.

good luck.


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 9, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> ^- Dont ask questions like that!
> Its on a GFI---- But I did get an electrical permit when I had the sub panel put in and it was in my "architectural" plans I developed on green graph paper......
> 
> That was another mistake, I wanted to get the permit on just the sub panel, but of course they took a look at everything in my damn house! Only reason I did it was when I did a previous basement at my old house, not as elaborate as this one, a lot of the potential buyers at the time didnt like that I had added onto the main box without pulling a permit, so this time I wanted to get that stupid sticker


I didn't get any of my basement permitted, but then again, I just added breakers to my existing panel (didn't need a sub).

Are the lights AND receptacle on a GFI? Is it the same circuit? The bath receptacles are required to be on a separate, 20 amp breaker from everything else, but multiple bathrooms can be wired to the same 20 amp breaker. But lights cannot be placed on that same circuit.


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## Road Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

the inspector went through the basement wiring like I had stole money from his family so I assume its all good to go (cause you know those people never make a mistake!)


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## snickerd3 (Nov 9, 2010)

looks good RG. I also would have paid someone to do tile work though.


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## Road Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

I WAS willing but after I kept getting rescheduled and reshceduled I just gave up and did it myself... I was also going to have him do the floor in the bathroom so it would be more economy of scale so it wasnt just a cheap job.

through this ordeal I have only used four subs, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and sheetrock mudding, finding the right person or someone who wasnt a worthless sack of shit has been the biggest pain in the ass


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 9, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> through this ordeal I have only used four subs, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and sheetrock mudding, finding the right person or someone who wasnt a worthless sack of shit has been the biggest pain in the ass


You got me by 1. I sub'd out plumbing, drywall, and carpet. I did the electrical and HVAC myself.


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## speedyox (Nov 10, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > through this ordeal I have only used four subs, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and sheetrock mudding, finding the right person or someone who wasnt a worthless sack of shit has been the biggest pain in the ass
> ...


When I finished my basement, I contracted out drywall finishing and HVAC.

I had planned to do the HVAC myself (bought books and had everything designed) but ran into a guy who would do it for less than I could buy the materials.

The drywall finishing was the only thing that I knew I wouldn't be able to do as well as a pro. Everything else just takes knowledge to do right and practice to do fast.

Interestingly, carpet was the hardest trade to find good references for. This was the only applicable book I found. The writing and editing are very rough, but the guy knows his stuff and gets the point across.

I already knew framing, wiring, and interior finishing and bought books for things like tile, counter tops, cabinets, drywall, HVAC, and plumbing.


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## Road Guy (Nov 10, 2010)

I had to put in a new hvac unit for the basement so I didnt want to tackle that solo!


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## frazil (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't understand half of this thread, but 1. I like the colors! and 2. I vote for option 1 on the tub tile.


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 10, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I had to put in a new hvac unit for the basement so I didnt want to tackle that solo!


Yeah, I probably would have used an electrician if I had to add a sub panel, and I even thought about using an HVAC contractor for the little bit of duct work i had to do...I definitely would have used one if I had to add a blower.


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## Road Guy (Nov 10, 2010)

frazil said:


> I don't understand half of this thread, but 1. I like the colors! and 2. I vote for option 1 on the tub tile.



CRAP the womans vote on "appearance" usually counts at about a 5:1 ratio!!!!


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## Road Guy (Nov 18, 2010)

got most of the floors done the last two days, this is still wet and there putting a final layer of epoxy or something today to make look a little more polished, thought it turned out pretty well, now on to trim work, god i hate trim work!!!!!

I am hoping to get the bar built over turkey holiday (if I can scrap together some cashola)


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 18, 2010)

Is that just scored and finished concrete, or are those really huge tiles?

I really hope you have an air compressor and trim nail gun...otherwise, you are in for hell. I had a nail gun, and it still took me forever to do the trim work.


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## Road Guy (Nov 18, 2010)

scored and finished concrete, need something indestructible  the back room is going to be carpet though, need at least one soft surface down there.

its probably not going to be the best for the surround sound but such as it is... probably put a big ass rug down to help a little

I do have several nail guns and compressor, my plan is to do a little each day and not rush it and have to use a shitload of caulk (like I normally have to)


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm thinking about having a finish carpenter come in and caulk my basement. I tried doing the silicone caulking around my tub, and made an unholy mess. I just don't have the touch required to do a good job. There was no way I was going to attempt to caulk all of my baseboards after my first experience.


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## DVINNY (Nov 18, 2010)

Dude,

http://www.asseenontvguys.com/pro-caulk.aspx


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## speedyox (Nov 18, 2010)

I've made a mess of some caulking jobs as well but I've finally got it down. My early work looks disastrous and my basement bathroom ended up passable with some sloppiness but by the time it came to do my kitchen counters and tile backsplash, I had figured out that the secret is to use as small of a bead as you can. I used a 1/16" - 1/8" bead and it ended up looking fantastic.

By the way, Road Guy, that floor looks sweet.


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## bigray76 (Nov 18, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> Dude,
> http://www.asseenontvguys.com/pro-caulk.aspx


A lot better than trying to use your finger...


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## Ble_PE (Nov 18, 2010)

bigray76 said:


> A lot better than trying to use your finger...


That's what she said!


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## bigray76 (Nov 18, 2010)

Ble_PE said:


> bigray76 said:
> 
> 
> > A lot better than trying to use your finger...
> ...


'As seen on TV'...


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## snickerd3 (Nov 18, 2010)

the floor looks nice. if we lived in a warmer climate I might have proposed that to mr snick for when we redo the basement...but during winter that wouldn't work out so well.


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## Road Guy (Nov 18, 2010)

I need someone to sharpshoot my bar layout.

I'm looking at getting some pre-finished cabinets from Lowes (actually only three cabinets) and then framing up around them like so:







I believe the cabinets have the proper spacing between them so doors and such will open, but should the dishwasher be on the left?

I was going to buy the three cabinets and then play with them like a jigsaw puzzle, but I'm trying to see any fatal flaws?


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## snickerd3 (Nov 18, 2010)

you are putting a dish washer in the basement?!


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## Road Guy (Nov 18, 2010)

I plan to keep just enough glasses, pocorn bowls, spoons, etc downstairs to keep my wife (  ) from having to take them up and down the stairs to wash them.... I plan on making good use of the bar... this is the type of entertaining I plan on doing:


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## Master slacker (Nov 18, 2010)

I can't see any pictures... can you describe each one in 1000 words or more? k thx bi


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## WoodSlinger (Nov 18, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> I need someone to sharpshoot my bar layout.
> I'm looking at getting some pre-finished cabinets from Lowes (actually only three cabinets) and then framing up around them like so:
> 
> 
> ...


The dishwasher is in a good spot. If you had it on the left, you could run the risk of damage and/or injury if the washer door was hanging open and someone comes tearing around the corner. I've seen it happen.

I'm not sure what you're thinking about doing in your sink, but if it were me, I'd put a 24" cabinet there, have a single basin sink, pull the washer down, and put a twelver on the end with open shelving, or a rack, or whatever. I think it might just work out better for operating the dishwasher if you're not pinned in the corner, but I still wouldn't put it on the left.


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## DVINNY (Nov 18, 2010)

That looks like MicroStation, and not AutoCAD.

Who does that? Honestly.


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## speedyox (Nov 18, 2010)

Woodslinger's suggestions sound good. Also, if you don't want to build fully custom 12" deep base units, you could pretty easily use upper cabinets and either hang them on a cleat or build a toe kick for them. This might be especially handy if you're buying pre-finished cabinets from lowes since the finish will match perfectly. When I did a trapezoidal countertop and needed 45 degree angle base units, I used pre-finished upper cabinets and ripped them in half diagonally. It came out great.


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## Road Guy (Nov 19, 2010)

thats a good idea about the 24" base for the sink, I just need to make sure they have them, I dont plan on getting a huge sink so that would work.! Thanks

I had thought about buying wall cabinets and either cutting them, but I couldnt figure out how to do the doors? But what I then thought about was raising them so they would be the same height as the raised bar and wrap them around, maybe build up a kickplate or something but those cabinets add up, just the three I planned to buy is almost $600 bucks


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## NCcarguy (Nov 19, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> That looks like MicroStation, and not AutoCAD.
> 
> Who does that? Honestly.



HEY....ME! And have since 1988. I have also turned many, many Autocad users into Microstation users over the years, and none have wanted to go back.

I agree the sink doesn't need to be as big as shown, a small sink will suffice. I have a tiny sink in my game room, and it's really only used as a hand wash station, which is used less and less as the evening goes on. lol


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## Road Guy (Nov 19, 2010)

microstation &gt; autocrap


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## DVINNY (Nov 19, 2010)

I haven't used Microstation or AutoCAD for about 6 years +, so to me, they are both crap now. 

I'm old and out of touch


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## NCcarguy (Nov 19, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> I haven't used Microstation or AutoCAD for about 6 years +, so to me, they are both crap now.
> I'm old and out of touch



LOL....and probably 10 years younger than me. dang.


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## Road Guy (Nov 19, 2010)

I had to beg to get it on my PC, I guess I am supposed to have people to do that, but I still like to be able to open the files and at least look around


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## DVINNY (Nov 19, 2010)

^^^ Same here. I got a 'shared license' version. I can get on to look at stuff at like 3am when no one else is using it. I think those with a shared copy leave it up all day and night, so they don't lose it.


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## Road Guy (Dec 3, 2010)

well room by room I am making some progress hopefully by the weekend I will have my Al Bundy bathroom finished (Toilet &amp; Sink!)


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## willsee (Dec 3, 2010)

No urinal?


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## Road Guy (Dec 3, 2010)

That's what the tub is for


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 3, 2010)

I put a "closet nook" in my bathroom just like what you have next to the tub. I was planning on building some shelves to put in there, but determined it would be a pain in the ass. I decided to buy some chrome wire shelves, and they fit perfectly.


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## DVINNY (Dec 3, 2010)

The decision on the tile of the area between tub and door?

has that been made?


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## wilheldp_PE (Dec 3, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> The decision on the tile of the area between tub and door?
> 
> has that been made?


The decision may have been made, but it definitely has not been executed. You can see the area in question in the last picture.


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## Road Guy (Dec 3, 2010)

the "nook" is for a cabinet that came withthe sink we bought (off craigslist) so I cut that out after the fact to have a place to put towels and such.. I wasnt really wild about doing it at first but it came out good and will provide some out of the way storage (since the sink cabinet) the wife got was what I call "fru-fru" and doesnt have a place to put the typical bathroom stuff, toilet paper, diesel fuel, etc..

&amp; those little tiles, for what its worth, are NOT worth the trouble and money! You have to put a little thicker mortar underneath them to keep them at the same level as the floor and for something that should have been simple, was really just not worth the extra effort (&amp; Those little squares were $10/ sheet (12" x 12") so thats $10/sf and the tile was $1.50 / SF.. wont mess with that again...

I am waiting on that last piece's of tile until I get the door in and then I am going to just tile up about 2 or 3 tiles and hope that it looks okay, but I need to have to door molding in to make sure it will match up..

God I hate doing molding!!!

I am ready to move on and finish the bar / kitchen but $$$$$ christmas is getting in the way!!!!


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## udpolo15 (Dec 3, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> thats a good idea about the 24" base for the sink, I just need to make sure they have them, I dont plan on getting a huge sink so that would work.! Thanks
> I had thought about buying wall cabinets and either cutting them, but I couldnt figure out how to do the doors? But what I then thought about was raising them so they would be the same height as the raised bar and wrap them around, maybe build up a kickplate or something but those cabinets add up, just the three I planned to buy is almost $600 bucks



IKEA has 12-inch deep base cabinets.


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## Road Guy (Jan 9, 2011)

well.. been doing a lot of caulking and molding, not much picture worthy... still havent decided on bar cabinets, but i think we have zereod in on IKEA...

I do have the bathroom finished (mostly) I have taken the toilet for a slow lap around the parking lot, but really havent gotten it out on the interstate if you know what i mean


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## Road Guy (Jan 24, 2011)

well the basement bar cabinets came from IKEA today, I must be lucky today cause they came during my lunch hour!

HFS 56 boxes and two boxes of nothing but nuts &amp; bolts,, this should be a lot of fun...


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## roadwreck (Jan 24, 2011)

some assembly required.


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## Dexman PE (Jan 24, 2011)

Its what i call a "kick in the balls good time" because they're equally as fun...


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 24, 2011)

Actually, my experience with assembling Ikea stuff has been fun. It's very satisfying because it's fast and easy. But I have heard horror stories of not enough fasteners being included. That would send me into a blind rage pretty quickly.


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## Road Guy (Jan 24, 2011)

i/m just going to tell my kids its a big lego set and to have at it?


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 24, 2011)

Just follow the easy to read instructions:


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## Road Guy (Jan 31, 2011)

here is my Ikea hell!

starting with.....







and a little bit of....






and yeah this is taking up more room than i thought.....






so far only 1 return trip to Ikea :suicide1:






and i know, should have hung the wall cabinets first.. yeah yeah....


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## Supe (Feb 1, 2011)

FLBuff PE said:


> Just follow the easy to read instructions:



That is awesome.

The only Ikea problem I've had so far was my couch, since they printed a panel backwards and messed up on the install sequence.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 15, 2011)

with the bathroom completed that leaves only our basement to remodel, then the whole interior of the house has had a facelift. However, the basement will be troublesome as we have some water issues to deal with first. There is a door to backyard that is below grade and no amount of silicone has been able to stop water from leaking in while its raining. We know of two cracks/seeps in the walls. One in the crawl space and one other in main area behind the wall. we only know about it because the carpet gets wet during heavy rain periods. I'm sure once we take the paneling off we are apt to find more surprizes though.

It is a very ugly space and I have a hard time looking at it so I don't spend a lot of time down there other than to wash clothes.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 15, 2011)

it will never be as awesome as Road guys though!!! I love that floor but I know it wouldn't be practical in IL


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 15, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> with the bathroom completed that leaves only our basement to remodel, then the whole interior of the house has had a facelift. However, the basement will be troublesome as we have some water issues to deal with first. There is a door to backyard that is below grade and no amount of silicone has been able to stop water from leaking in while its raining. We know of two cracks/seeps in the walls. One in the crawl space and one other in main area behind the wall. we only know about it because the carpet gets wet during heavy rain periods. I'm sure once we take the paneling off we are apt to find more surprizes though.
> It is a very ugly space and I have a hard time looking at it so I don't spend a lot of time down there other than to wash clothes.


I just saw them fix a below grade door in a basement on Holmes Inspection. They had to put in a floor drain outside of the door, pipe it underground through the house foundation, into a sump crock, and pump it out of the house with a sump pump. It looked expensive and time consuming.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 15, 2011)

wilheldp_PE said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > with the bathroom completed that leaves only our basement to remodel, then the whole interior of the house has had a facelift. However, the basement will be troublesome as we have some water issues to deal with first. There is a door to backyard that is below grade and no amount of silicone has been able to stop water from leaking in while its raining. We know of two cracks/seeps in the walls. One in the crawl space and one other in main area behind the wall. we only know about it because the carpet gets wet during heavy rain periods. I'm sure once we take the paneling off we are apt to find more surprizes though.
> ...


there is a floor drain outside the door and it works. We check it for leaves/debris regularly and run the hose down it each spring/fall to make sure there isn't any build up in it.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 15, 2011)

the back of the house. We have debated adding a roof/awning thing over the step area to prevent water from direct contact, but there will still be blown in water.

We are going to go to a home/energy show at the end of the month...there are going to be several basement/foundation companies there.


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## MA_PE (Feb 15, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> the back of the house. We have debated adding a roof/awning thing over the step area to prevent water from direct contact, but there will still be blown in water.
> 
> We are going to go to a home/energy show at the end of the month...there are going to be several basement/foundation companies there.


My house has the same thing and the previous owners built a small roof over the stairwell It works great as I don't get any water in there at all.


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## Road Guy (Feb 15, 2011)

snick, does the drain drain to the underdrain around the basement foundation or to a different point?

well sadly no photos but here's an update, baseball / softball season started last week and that really puts a damper on my productivity, plus lake season is a month away and I stressed over hanging sheetrock lask summer instead of hanging at the lake so I dont want to do that again.. need to finish!!!!

I have the bar framed out, plywood and hardibacker on and am ready to buy the tile, the tax issue thing is sort of side tracking me but I think I can pull some money out to buy the tile, we were going to go with a nicer granite (not black) for about $10/SF, but long thought has me thinking to just get the black granite tile at $3.00 / SF, with the bar overhang Ive got about 50 SF to put down, so I think I can steal $150 bucks somewhere..

My plan for the tile is to do the 24" section directly over the cabinets first and the backsplash, and then add the actual "bar" overhang (about 14") and then tile that in a second step? I dont know why but me thinks it will make putting it down a little easier? Mrs. RG wants me to do a 45^ angle pattern for the tile, but I F&amp;(*&amp;***n hate making all those angle cuts.. I agree it will look better but I keep telling her, its just a basement! and that the show on HGTV where they critique peoples basement bars is not coming by anytime soon to evaluate us...

I got the sink drain fixed up last weekend, I think i finally figured out the basic plumbing part, most important, just buy about 4 of every 1.5" fitting at the home depot and take back the extra's, when I did the bathroom vanity I must have made a dozen trips getting different gadgets and such...

Then I just have one room to carpet, stairs to carpet, and then buy some furniture. I am SO ready for it to be over with, I think this 1.5 years of me spending every weekend night working until 2 AM has taken a toll on me, and the kids, sadly I have left them to entertain themselves via Xbox while I try and finish this thing, it will be nice just to be able to "hang" but then this friend of mine came up with a great idea for Phase II to open up some of the unfished space left in my basement for a workout room / nice storage area.. but I dont even want to go there at this point!


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## Road Guy (Feb 15, 2011)

okay this was a huge time waster...

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/11b...nt=14eafec7.pbw


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 16, 2011)

Wow Snick, so that's what a house looks like when there isn't 3 feet of snow on the ground.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 16, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> snick, does the drain drain to the underdrain around the basement foundation or to a different point?


the previous owners said it meets up with the line from the sump pump somewhere under the back yard then heads to the creek out back in the trees. There are 2 pipes discharging to the creek, this one and the other is the gray water from our septic tank.


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## Road Guy (Feb 16, 2011)

nice, gray water into a creek!


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## snickerd3 (Feb 16, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> nice, gray water into a creek!


hey i didn't design the neighboorhood. I was only 2 when the house was built. The homes on the other side of the street have their septic system gray water discharging to the ditches near the street. which then flows towards the creek, but not before having to travel between ours and the neighbors house.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 16, 2011)

intermitant creek might be a better description. there isn't constant water in it.


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## MA_PE (Feb 16, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> nice, gray water into a creek!


that's what I was thinking. I'm not versed in the regulations but there's no way that I could see that being legal here in the commonwealth. Jeez, we can't even dump snow into the harbor.


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 16, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> intermitant creek might be a better description. there isn't constant water in it.


It only has "water" in it when septic tanks are overflowing?


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## snickerd3 (Feb 16, 2011)

MA_PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > nice, gray water into a creek!
> ...


unincorporated area outside small town in the middle of corn...enough said. I'd love to be hooked up to city water and sewer, but it isn't likely to happen.


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## snickerd3 (Feb 16, 2011)

wilheldp_PE said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > intermitant creek might be a better description. there isn't constant water in it.
> ...


no. It is part of the main drainage feature for the neighborhood. so it usually only flows during periods of rain or snow melt. half the neighboorhoods storm water passes between my and the neighbors house to the creek which then winds around the farms to the lake.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Feb 16, 2011)

MA_PE said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> > nice, gray water into a creek!
> ...


Oh no! There might be salt and sand in that snow. How can you have sand on a beach and salt in the ocean?!? The horror!

-VTE, envl guy versed in the regulations


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## Road Guy (Feb 28, 2011)

since I know most of you wake up every day wondering if I will ever finish this thing.. I think one more weekend and I can have the bar complete!

I have already sat at it and enjoyed a round, but it was hard to balance the beer on the 2X4..












those damn bull nose pieces really add up, totally killed my bar budget when I didnt account for them.. still about half the price of real granite.. so that should at least pay for a tv or something


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## snickerd3 (Mar 1, 2011)

looking good!


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## kevo_55 (Mar 1, 2011)

That looks really good RG!!


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## Road Guy (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm starting to think I am in the wrong line of work!


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## snickerd3 (Mar 11, 2011)

Nice!!! but would you really want to do that all day every day?


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## Supe (Mar 11, 2011)

That looks killer!


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## Road Guy (Mar 11, 2011)

Im starting to feel the post mortum depression (sp?) Once I put the doors on the cabinets, and put carpet in one room I pretty much wont have anything to do until 1:00 in the morning much longer, trying to figure out what to do with my free time?

Of course I dont have funding identified for the furniture so maybe I can sell my soul to the devil for a few months and offer some expert witness testimony to some scum sucking lawyers on a few cases to make some fatty cash..

i've totally ignored my yard the last two years while working on this, but that just doesnt bring me the same satisfaction.... but can involve equal amount of trips to the home depot


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## MA_PE (Mar 11, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> Im starting to feel the post mortum depression (sp?) Once I put the doors on the cabinets, and put carpet in one room I pretty much wont have anything to do until 1:00 in the morning much longer, trying to figure out what to do with my free time?


I suggest you invest in one barstool, pull up a chair and start having some CABs and enjoying the fruits of your labors.

The grass will still grow without you.


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## wilheldp_PE (Mar 11, 2011)

Road Guy said:


> Im starting to feel the post mortum depression (sp?) Once I put the doors on the cabinets, and put carpet in one room I pretty much wont have anything to do until 1:00 in the morning much longer, trying to figure out what to do with my free time?
> Of course I dont have funding identified for the furniture so maybe I can sell my soul to the devil for a few months and offer some expert witness testimony to some scum sucking lawyers on a few cases to make some fatty cash..
> 
> i've totally ignored my yard the last two years while working on this, but that just doesnt bring me the same satisfaction.... but can involve equal amount of trips to the home depot


I have the same problem now that my basement is done. I can't much get into "decorating mode." I need a new project. I will probably tackle the landscaping at my house come Spring.


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## Road Guy (Mar 13, 2011)

fu**&amp;&amp;&amp;

Note to self:

Before you install a mirror between the two wall cabinets, and install the glass shelves, make sure that the doors on the front of the cabinets dont hit the can lights moulding!!!!!

Crap that was a full day of re-work just for an inch,, and not checking twice....


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## Road Guy (Apr 21, 2011)

carpet is coming today!

the TV furniture comes next Tuesday...

Then I am broke for a month or so, but that will get me enough furniture to begin using it fairly often...

Cant believe I am at the end of the tunnell...

Still need to get 5 bar stools, but at this point everything is $500 and we already exceeded our planned furniture and TV budget.. may have to go get some wood ones from wal mart....


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## frazil (Apr 21, 2011)

Awesome!!


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## Wolverine (Apr 21, 2011)

Definitely, definitely, definitely kick back with a few CAB's and admire your work for a while. That is a hell of a project.


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## MA_PE (Apr 21, 2011)

Nice!!!


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## Road Guy (Apr 21, 2011)

Im going to see if I can dig up my original "engineers estimate" and compare to what it really costs... damn change orders!


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## snickerd3 (Apr 21, 2011)

woohoo almos there


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## ElCid03 (Apr 21, 2011)

^Love the photo of you and little man.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 22, 2011)

That is a cute photo.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 22, 2011)

thanks. you can't really see it in that small of a picture but he he is sticking his tongue out at the camera a.k.a mr snick.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

these are crappy pics from my phone, but I think the furniture is a tad too big, going to have to do some re aranging for get togethers....


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## roadwreck (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, looking really good. You might be in the wrong line of work.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 26, 2011)

roadwreck said:


> Wow, looking really good. You might be in the wrong line of work.


Did you just call him an interior decorator?

:-O


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

whats sad is the only thing in the photos that the wife picked out was the TV.. ..

Its a 51", really wanted a 60" but had to make some budget cuts...

&amp; the old rocking chair will get moved, I just cant find a homoe for it, my inlaws left it a few years ago, its the one they rocked all their kids in when they were babies, it almost went to goodwill at least 3 times...

Still need to buy 5 bar stools, but that will have to wait till next month.. and I need to put the rest of the doors on the cabinets...

I would be emberassed to show you all pics of my kitchen upstairs, it looks like shit,, I am ready to gut it as well, but am out of $$$$


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## Wolverine (Apr 26, 2011)

Nah, you should leave the rocking chair. It's a nice functional anchor and a quirky juxtaposing of styles that contrasts nicely with and softens the clean lines and boldness of the leather couch. You might consider splashing it with a touch of color by ....

...uh oh...

:f_115m_e45d7af:


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## MA_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

looks great.

The one thing I don't like about big overstuffed furniture is that it takes up a lot of space.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2011)

the room dimension of 14' width killed me on what we really wanted.. as a family of 5 its was difficult to find what I really wanted, which was 5 movie theater chairs you coudl seperate, move around easily, etc.. but aside from those being a fortune, I just couldnt find exactly something to work.. and we went to about every furniture store in North Atlanta...

but this should work for us 90% of the time, and we can re-arrange for partys to have more room.. so its kind of what we wanted

and the other sofa is for the back room, anyone want to come help me move that one day?? I have to lift it over the bar to get it to fit in...


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## snickerd3 (Apr 26, 2011)

ooops


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## MA_PE (Apr 26, 2011)

There's a restaurant/movie theater around here called Chunky's where the seats are fornt passenger seats out of a Lincoln Continental.

The seats are mounted on dollys so they roll easy. Seats are non-power so they have the manual lever operated recline feature. If you have a pick-and-pull nearby, it might be a cheap way to get your theater seats.

I have not been in a while but it's pretty neat. The "theater is a large flat room and they have tables to sit and eat before the movie starts. then everyone can turn to face the screen on the back wall. Waitress service for appetizers, sodas and pitchers of beer continues during the movie.


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