# What reference are allowed in the EXAM ROOM?



## itsmemario (Sep 15, 2008)

I am planning on taking the SE I &amp; II in Illinois in April 09 and was wondering what references are allowed in the exam room? I know a lot has been said on what references to use to study, but I am a little fuzzy on which ones I can take into the exam room. The SERM is a great study guide but not allowed in the exam room. So which books did you guys take?


----------



## vane_gator (Sep 16, 2008)

Typically, they allow any book or reference into the exam room, including the SERM. Does Illinois have a special policy regarding that?

Otherwise, refer to the NCEES website: http://www.ncees.org/exams/professional/#bring


----------



## kevo_55 (Sep 16, 2008)

^^VG,

IL for some reason doesn't want for people to have worked problems as ref material during the exam. I believe that they have a policy on this.

This means that all of the ""the other board"" manuals are no good, all of the Kaplan books are no good, textbooks are no good, and anything else with worked problems are not allowed into the exam room.

Also, IL doesn't allow photocopied codes into the exam room. Only original bought codes are allowed.

I don't know what would happen if you use a printed &amp; bound CD-ROM version of the code though. :dunno:


----------



## itsmemario (Sep 16, 2008)

This is what I found on the IDFPR website...

_REFERENCES AND AIDS FOR THE STRUCTURAL I AND II EXAMINATIONS_

During the Structural I and Structural II examinations, examinees may only use textbooks (including

statics, dynamics, mechanics of materials, etc.) AND the various building codes, design standards and

manuals.

• Solutions to examination problems, which reference a standard of practice, are scored based on the

“Structural Design Standards” list.

• Solutions based on other standards may result in different answers, which may not receive credit.

• All prior editions of the design reference codes, standards, and manuals are considered obsolete. The

most current Structural Design Standards is available on the (NCEES) at www.ncees.org or toll free at

1-800-250-3196

• All reference books must be printed in the English language

• Books must be copyrighted and formally bound by the publisher, the only exceptions being:

• Publications noted on the NCEES website as being out of print in hard copy may be printed from

downloaded files or CD versions and bound by the examinee in a three ring binder with a cover

that clearly states the full title of the document. One publication per binder is allowed.

The following references are NOT permitted in the examination room:

• Hicks Handbook, FAN Engineering, any reference and solution manuals published by Professional

Publications, Inc., which includes Michael R. Lindeburg series, any books published by Great

Lakes Press, NCEES Study Guides, and any other books purported to be helpful in preparation for

professional engineering examinations

_The following references are NOT permitted in the examination room:_

• Dictionaries.

• Material copied from several handbooks and textbooks and bound by/for the candidate.

• Loose tables, maps, charts, reference cards, etc.

• Writing tables, unbound tables, or unbound notes.

• Manuals that are publications of the Illinois Department of Transportation (commonly

referred to as the IDOT Manual).

• Books with content directed mainly toward solution of engineering problems or

preparation for professional engineering examinations.

• Blank paper - Sufficient paper for scratch work is provided in each solution pamphlet

Wow, that’s really unfair of illinois to do. This is supposed to be a national standardized test for Structural Engineers but not all states are doing things equally. Probably making it hard on purpose so more people have to take it over again...nice money making scheme they have come up with. I call bullshit!!


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Sep 16, 2008)

Wow...that really is an unfair disadvantage for Illinois test-takers. I guess they are just trying to mimic real world problems where your boss tells you to solve a problem, then specifically excludes several reference books that would help you solve the problem more quickly. &lt;_&lt;


----------



## Bigwolf (Sep 16, 2008)

I would seriously consider sitting for the exams in a different state...even thought it will be more hassle. Illionis policys are DEFINATELY :screwloose:

As a practing engineer, I have any reference and resource book available to me at my disposal......If the P.E./S.E are open exams, why shouldn't it be the exact same way? Why stipulate certain reference materials if it's an OPEN exam?????

Illionis = :screwloose: :screwloose: :screwloose: :screwloose: :screwloose:


----------



## kevo_55 (Sep 16, 2008)

^^ I agree! :appl:


----------



## vane_gator (Sep 17, 2008)

That is CRAZY! I would sit in another state....


----------



## Flyer_PE (Sep 17, 2008)

Just to pile on a little. Another quirk with the PE exam in Illinois is that they don't allow use of the reference book they SUPPLY for the FE.


----------



## Capt Worley PE (Sep 17, 2008)

^^HAHA No shizzit?


----------



## snickerd3 (Sep 17, 2008)

Flyer_PE said:


> Just to pile on a little. Another quirk with the PE exam in Illinois is that they don't allow use of the reference book they SUPPLY for the FE.


Isn't Illinois such a great place!  The red tape is so thick even a diamond has trouble cutting it.


----------



## buening (Sep 18, 2008)

I'll be taking the SE I and II in Illinois this October. I've been in direct contact with a representative for the IL Dept of Prof Regulation. Here is some of his replies regarding some of my questions:

_Illinois does not allow 3 ring binders (unless it is published ONLY in that form by the publisher) and we do not allow any printouts from electronic media: Only the AASHTO manuals is available only in a 3 ring binder, and that will be the only exception. The PCE and ACI manuals must be published manuals, not printed from electronic media manuals._

The following is a link to the Reference Guide for Illinois for Structural:

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/apply/FORMS/SE_SPEC_Exam.pdf

If you have the published AASHTO Manual and have broken it into multiple Binders, you must be prepared to defend that practice with the Proctors. I can not state that they will allow you to bring it in that way

I understand your frustration. However, as we do NOT use ELSES, our requirements are different in order to protect ourselves from breeches of the exam (which could cost this state in the millions of dollars).

I note that AASHTO has even taken the 3rd edition off their list of books that are currently available. However, until NCEES updates their exam questions, there is nothing that the States can do about the reference material.

Breeches of the exam?? We're the only state that has this stringent of rules, is it costing other states "millions of dollars"? Now, with that said I've been told by many other recent test takers that this isn't really enforced. They have seen people with IDOT manuals and many other things in 3-ring binders. My gripe to him was that our firm only purchases the electronic versions of the code. ACI, PCI, and others are all in pdf at our office. My plan was to print these out just for the exam, only to find out that binders aren't allowed. So they expect us to purchase manuals AGAIN in hard copy format just to take this exam, which is BS. I also broke the AASHTO manual out into 4 binders, to separate some of the larger chapters and decrease the massive size of the manual.

I agree with others that all of these references are available to an engineer in day-to-day life. If you have a small hiccup, pull out a design guide to get you back on track. A good engineer doesn't know everything, a good engineer knows where to find it!

As far as taking it outside the state, I believe reciprocity may be a problem with the SE licenses out of state. With IL's stringent rules, they may not allow you to transfer the license to Illinois (unless you are from Cali or Washington). I don't know this for sure though.


----------



## buening (Sep 18, 2008)

Another thing that bugs me is that they don't send out this list of materials allowed. NCEES sends you the sheet that has the allowed references, but I have yet to receive anything from IL stating what is allowed. What if someone weren't aware of this magical list and just went off the NCEES list? I'd be pretty angry if I found out when I walked into the classroom and couldn't bring half of my reference material. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't emailed NCEES about breaking up the AASHTO manual.

If it were that big of a deal, I think Continental Testing would send this list out as soon as you are approved for the test. Wait......they don't send anything until 2 weeks before exam time! :brickwall: Thanks for letting me vent


----------



## kevo_55 (Sep 18, 2008)

I 100% understand the frustration with the IL board. :violin: On the other hand, it is also possible for ELSES/NCEES to sue the state board if exam questions were leaked.

With respect to IL:SE reciprocity (they call it endorcement), I got my license by simply taking the SEI and SEII in MN (where I am a resident) and then filling out the endorcement application for IL. It is possible to get an IL license with reciprocity.


----------



## buening (Sep 19, 2008)

kevo_55 said:


> On the other hand, it is also possible for ELSES/NCEES to sue the state board if exam questions were leaked.
> With respect to IL:SE reciprocity (they call it endorcement), I got my license by simply taking the SEI and SEII in MN (where I am a resident) and then filling out the endorcement application for IL. It is possible to get an IL license with reciprocity.



My argument is how different is the exam room in Illinois to other states that use ELSES? Is it easier for exam questions to be leaked via binders in Illinois compared to other states? How would these questions be leaked in relation to binders (tearing out pages of the test booklet)? If AASHTO is allowed in a binder in IL, then that could be used for leaked questions. I guess I don't follow their thought process on this matter.

Nice to know about the reciprocity. I wasn't sure about the requirements. I had just heard that IL and CA were more stringent than other states. I may make the trip to another state if I catch much grief at this exam :burgerking:

Illinois has some weird quirks in this field. We are probably the only state that doesn't use shear studs in the negative moment regions of our bridges.


----------

