# Job/Salary Market with experience



## Xia (May 1, 2018)

Hi guys, 

Doing some research for a good estimation of salary/job market for someone with 5 years of experience in Electrical engineering in construction, right out of college  
Review is coming up and would like to have a good idea of what the market value is + what I should be expecting. 
I did some research online but would love you guys feedback.


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## Szar (May 1, 2018)

Xia said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Doing some research for a good estimation of salary/job market for someone with 5 years of experience in Electrical engineering in construction, right out of college
> Review is coming up and would like to have a good idea of what the market value is + what I should be expecting.
> I did some research online but would love you guys feedback.


Always hard to qualify... but to even try way more info is needed.  


What is the Job description? 

What is your title?

What is the general Location?  (Are we talking a Metro like NYC or backwoods Pennsyl-tucky?)


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## Surf and Snow (May 1, 2018)

Xia said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Doing some research for a good estimation of salary/job market for someone with 5 years of experience in Electrical engineering in construction, right out of college
> Review is coming up and would like to have a good idea of what the market value is + what I should be expecting.
> I did some research online but would love you guys feedback.




I'm confused. Which one are you asking?  Salary right out of college, or salary after 5 years experience? They are very different things! Like for example, where I work (Fed Gov) you'd be looking at $45-55k right out of school and $80-90k after 5 years.


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## Owism (May 1, 2018)

Join government. Its Union Protected. Guaranteed Pension. Great health care. Great work schedule.  Enough said. 

Oh You don't agree? Yes private industry will make a larger paycheck but look at the big picture. Private companies don't guarantee your pension, they contribute a little bit towards your 401k. They also don't give you the best health insurance, typically high deductible which sucks. You also don't have guaranteed time to enjoy the money your making, versus union protected where you have a set schedule for work so you can live your life when your done with your 8 hours/day.

Just wish i was in a warmer climate   Thats ok. I just need to learn some more winter sports.


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## Xia (May 1, 2018)

Owism said:


> Join government. Its Union Protected. Guaranteed Pension. Great health care. Great work schedule.  Enough said.
> 
> Oh You don't agree? Yes private industry will make a larger paycheck but look at the big picture. Private companies don't guarantee your pension, they contribute a little bit towards your 401k. They also don't give you the best health insurance, typically high deductible which sucks. You also don't have guaranteed time to enjoy the money your making, versus union protected where you have a set schedule for work so you can live your life when your done with your 8 hours/day.
> 
> Just wish i was in a warmer climate   Thats ok. I just need to learn some more winter sports.


This is definitely one option I am really interested in!! 



Surf and Snow said:


> I'm confused. Which one are you asking?  Salary right out of college, or salary after 5 years experience? They are very different things! Like for example, where I work (Fed Gov) you'd be looking at $45-55k right out of school and $80-90k after 5 years.


Hi ! I mean after 5 years of experience . This is my first job out of college and I am closing in on 5 years. 



Szar said:


> Always hard to qualify... but to even try way more info is needed.
> 
> 
> What is the Job description?
> ...


Job description : I work on designing power/ltg/FA for building construction. So everything from one line risers, equipment layouts, load calculations, CA process.

Title is electrical engineer. 

Location is Manhattan 

Just a review is coming up at work and I am starting to feel like I am underpaid here. So I want to bring it up while also staying realistic in what I ask for with the market!

Appreciate all replies


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## Szar (May 1, 2018)

Xia said:


> This is definitely one option I am really interested in!!
> 
> Hi ! I mean after 5 years of experience . This is my first job out of college and I am closing in on 5 years.
> 
> ...


I can crystal ball and say a Colleague of mine took a similar Role (private sector Electrical Engineer (without PE)), on the outskirts of the NYC metro, around the same years experience... for around 85K - 90K.  I would assume inside the NYC would increase based on other individuals I know who went to work inside the City from outside the city.  

Only caution is, unless your manager and company actually needs to keep you... it doesn't matter what you show them.  I would show statistics, internet numbers, etc from the big websites and they never opened their pocket book.  "That's not our industry", "We don't have that kind of income stream", "The internet inflates things, its all made up".  Excuses galore.   Being young I got used to thinking "OK", this must just be what engineers are actually paid in reality.   

I finally decided to leave for other reasons and was hired by a place who was willing to pay me *20% more*!  I was on cloud Nine.  I was the Master of the Deal.    

Then a few days in I find out more about the pay structure of the company and my position.  They could *not* have paid me less then what they offered me and kept me in the position they hired me.  Something to do with reporting incomes and the pay band structure of the company.  (And it was a low position, nothing exotic like manager or specialist.  Just a designer level position).  

I mean, they actually advertised me (internally in the company) as being the cheapest guy to do the work and keep the budgets down as I was literally at the bottom of the pay scale for them. 

No hard feelings to either company I worked for.  I learned so much from everyone at both places and used it to get into a great company all these years later, but you need to understand the nature of employment and your employers.


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## knight1fox3 (May 1, 2018)

Owism said:


> Join government. Its Union Protected. Guaranteed Pension. Great health care. Great work schedule.  Enough said.
> 
> Oh You don't agree? Yes private industry will make a larger paycheck but look at the big picture. Private companies don't guarantee your pension, they contribute a little bit towards your 401k. They also don't give you the best health insurance, typically high deductible which sucks. You also don't have guaranteed time to enjoy the money your making, versus union protected where you have a set schedule for work so you can live your life when your done with your 8 hours/day.
> 
> Just wish i was in a warmer climate   Thats ok. I just need to learn some more winter sports.


Wrong on just about every account. LOL


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## Owism (May 2, 2018)

Szar said:


> I can crystal ball and say a Colleague of mine took a similar Role (private sector Electrical Engineer (without PE)), on the outskirts of the NYC metro, around the same years experience... for around 85K - 90K.  I would assume inside the NYC would increase based on other individuals I know who went to work inside the City from outside the city.
> 
> Only caution is, unless your manager and company actually needs to keep you... it doesn't matter what you show them.  I would show statistics, internet numbers, etc from the big websites and they never opened their pocket book.  "That's not our industry", "We don't have that kind of income stream", "The internet inflates things, its all made up".  Excuses galore.   Being young I got used to thinking "OK", this must just be what engineers are actually paid in reality.
> 
> ...


Yes.. sounds like slavery... only Kanye West says 400 years of slavery is a choice.. whereas working for a private company is not a choice? Whoa.. ok that sounds like fake news. I've been there.. hated it. Especially since I'm not Caucasian. No accent, mind you. 

Real news: Slavery is not a choice, Working for Corporate greedy brutal organizations who only give favors to their same kind... thats your choice... if you can find a Union protected job of course.


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 2, 2018)

Private companies make money, government jobs take money. So, all those 'perks' you want to brag about are the same reason that private sector jobs don't make as much. Have to pay all those taxes to keep the federal unions appeased.


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## Owism (May 2, 2018)

Ken PE 3.1 said:


> Private companies make money, government jobs take money. So, all those 'perks' you want to brag about are the same reason that private sector jobs don't make as much. Have to pay all those taxes to keep the federal unions appeased.


True, but government workers have the responsibility to spend tax monies appropriately and let me tell you that its not easy to spend money, takes multiple reviews and justifications so theres no random or unjust spending of tax dollars. Very nicely controlled.

Private companies have obviously realized that unions are the next thing to target to increase profits.  Thats the reason why Unions are failing nationwide; private companies have successfully lobbied to weaken unions nationwide. This in return will hurt the citizens because the government cannot sustain a larger workforce for the work that is required with weak benefits and low wages. The result? Consulting everything out to the point that government workers become just project managers making sure that at least the interest of the people who pay the taxes are met, that seems to be where we are right now as the in house expertise is retiring and those retirees become our consultants. If government workers are wiped out, then the only motive to engineer is for a profit... and you know how profits go.  Put the least bit of material and time into a project to get the most return. This can have significant consequences in terms of reliable design and infrastructure quality that should be safe and secure for the people of a nation.

Government work is more than just a job. Its making sure tax dollars are spent well and correctly with purpose. We need great engineers to do that.


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## Szar (May 2, 2018)

Owism said:


> Yes.. sounds like slavery... only Kanye West says 400 years of slavery is a choice.. whereas working for a private company is not a choice? Whoa.. ok that sounds like fake news. I've been there.. hated it. Especially since I'm not Caucasian. No accent, mind you.
> 
> Real news: Slavery is not a choice, Working for Corporate greedy brutal organizations who only give favors to their same kind... thats your choice... if you can find a Union protected job of course.




Well you must be fun at parties...


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## Szar (May 2, 2018)

Owism said:


> True, but government workers have the responsibility to spend tax monies appropriately and let me tell you that its not easy to spend money, takes multiple reviews and justifications so theres no random or unjust spending of tax dollars. Very nicely controlled.
> 
> Private companies have obviously realized that unions are the next thing to target to increase profits.  Thats the reason why Unions are failing nationwide; private companies have successfully lobbied to weaken unions nationwide. This in return will hurt the citizens because the government cannot sustain a larger workforce for the work that is required with weak benefits and low wages. The result? Consulting everything out to the point that government workers become just project managers making sure that at least the interest of the people who pay the taxes are met, that seems to be where we are right now as the in house expertise is retiring and those retirees become our consultants. If government workers are wiped out, then the only motive to engineer is for a profit... and you know how profits go.  Put the least bit of material and time into a project to get the most return. This can have significant consequences in terms of reliable design and infrastructure quality that should be safe and secure for the people of a nation.
> 
> Government work is more than just a job. Its making sure tax dollars are spent well and correctly with purpose. We need great engineers to do that.


Drinking the:


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## knight1fox3 (May 2, 2018)

Owism said:


> True, but government workers have the responsibility to spend tax monies appropriately and let me tell you that its not easy to spend money, takes multiple reviews and justifications so theres no random or unjust spending of tax dollars. Very nicely controlled.
> 
> Private companies have obviously realized that unions are the next thing to target to increase profits.  Thats the reason why Unions are failing nationwide; private companies have successfully lobbied to weaken unions nationwide. This in return will hurt the citizens because the government cannot sustain a larger workforce for the work that is required with weak benefits and low wages. The result? Consulting everything out to the point that government workers become just project managers making sure that at least the interest of the people who pay the taxes are met, that seems to be where we are right now as the in house expertise is retiring and those retirees become our consultants. If government workers are wiped out, then the only motive to engineer is for a profit... and you know how profits go.  Put the least bit of material and time into a project to get the most return. This can have significant consequences in terms of reliable design and infrastructure quality that should be safe and secure for the people of a nation.
> 
> Government work is more than just a job. Its making sure tax dollars are spent well and correctly with purpose. We need great engineers to do that.


Unions are a thing of the past an no longer practical/necessary. THAT'S why they are failing nationwide. Most people are intelligent enough to negotiate their own personal terms of employment rather than relying on a larger body to do this for them and then charge exuberant fees to do so.


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## Owism (May 2, 2018)

knight1fox3 said:


> Unions are a thing of the past an no longer practical/necessary. THAT'S why they are failing nationwide. Most people are intelligent enough to negotiate their own personal terms of employment rather than relying on a larger body to do this for them and then charge exuberant fees to do so.


$40 a month is not an exuberant fee to guarantee:


I don't have to work more than a set amount of hours - guaranteeing my work-life balance unlike private companies which give Hawaii shirt days

I have the most affordable and best selection of health insurance options

I have a guaranteed pension 

I have a guaranteed raise versus companies where you can push all your stats and successes and they dont have to give you a raise if they dont want to, quoting " sorry we didnt make enough this year" due to unrealistic quotas from the higher ups in the corporation

I have a set career ladder versus the random titles given at corporations, what the heck is a sales engineer and whats the next level up for them? They dont teach sales in engineering school. There is no PE exam for sales engineer. Its the guy who knows how to talk to humans.. but yeah most engineers can't so theres the sales engineer

The Unions got us this far until they became lax in the fight . We wouldn't have weekends or holidays or sick leave or any of the other benefits we enjoy now without thinking it never used to be like that. Unions are coming back. 

Look to other thriving European countries. In Feb of this year, in Germany a Union won the right to work 28 hour work week and also got a raise. Thats an extreme of course and not everyone wants to work just 28 hours, but at least its an option for those who would like to without having to loose health insurance, etc. for work/life balance reasons.

Ive worked in private industry and its not sustainable. You need to jump companies every 3-5 years. Unless thats your lifestyle preference, that really sucks.


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## knight1fox3 (May 2, 2018)

Owism said:


> $40 a month is not an exuberant fee to guarantee:
> 
> 
> I don't have to work more than a set amount of hours - guaranteeing my work-life balance unlike private companies which give Hawaii shirt days
> ...


To each their own. $40/month adds up over time and that's close to $500 per year that could be spent on things with better ROI. That fee never ends during the course of your employment. Lets say for argument sake that you work with this employer for 35 years. That's close to $17k for simply not wanting to negotiating your own terms of employment. No thanks. And I'm sure you are perfectly capable of negotiating items 1-5 on your own but just choose to have someone do it for you. If that works for you great. But there are other alternatives that offer similar (if not better) benefits. But making blanket statements like "I have the most...." and "I have the best selection..." tends to be quite ignorant and portrays you as uninformed. Items 4-5 are pretty much a given in private industry as far as engineering goes.



> We wouldn't have weekends or holidays or sick leave or any of the other benefits we enjoy now without thinking it never used to be like that. Unions are coming back.


Again, you seem to have a jaded sense of reality. 



> Ive worked in private industry and its not sustainable. You need to jump companies every 3-5 years.


Then your strategy and likely your work performance metrics are flawed.


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## Szar (May 2, 2018)

Don' you remember the triangle paper fire where  dozens of highly educated down on their luck professional engineers working in horrendous conditions (against there will)  were locked into a drawing mill that caught fire!? 

(Unions serve a purpose...  But not for engineering or government)


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## Ken PE 3.1 (May 2, 2018)

Owism said:


> $40 a month is not an exuberant fee to guarantee:
> 
> 
> I don't have to work more than a set amount of hours - guaranteeing my work-life balance unlike private companies which give Hawaii shirt days
> ...


Ahhh, the never ending "look what Europe did" lie. Do you honestly believe, that a country as large as the US can survive working 28 hours a week with a raise???

Also, that "guaranteed pension" you keep trying to drive home just means that I have to pay a little more so federal employees get to call it quits years before I get to.

There was a time and place for unions. I'm just not sure that government jobs is the spot.

Just my $0.02


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## Road Guy (May 2, 2018)

I've spent time in both private and public and have found there is better insurance in the private world - not always, but a recent government gig I looked into the insurance cost was nearly 3X what I pay working for a terrible un human corporation  /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20">


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## Owism (May 2, 2018)

Yeah to each is their own.

My experience was shaped by graduating during the great recession in 2008, being from an immigrant family, and not being of Caucasian descent. I know I'm discriminated against when I have all the skills required, even for a entry level field engineer position and am not hired due to "being overqualified" out of college, is that even allowed? 

Sometimes we engineers do not need to get to the "right" answer, as I was trying to do above, but really need to hear each other out. Especially in societal issues, these do not flow with any math or science or solved by any one equation. So lets keep discussing and drop the debate side.  



knight1fox3 said:


> But making blanket statements like "I have the most...." and "I have the best selection..." tends to be quite ignorant and portrays you as uninformed.


Your right, but I am comparing to what is real in my area by my research and my working experience in private companies and by others who own their own businesses.


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## Xia (May 2, 2018)

Ah this discussion is taking a different turn than I was expecting.

Thank you for your feedback


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## Szar (May 2, 2018)

Xia said:


> Ah this discussion is taking a different turn than I was expecting.
> 
> Thank you for your feedback


Hey,  you got at least one real answer to your question!  :holyness:


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## Owism (May 3, 2018)

Xia said:


> Ah this discussion is taking a different turn than I was expecting.
> 
> Thank you for your feedback


lol


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## sayed (May 3, 2018)

its all about connections.

you could have 3 phds, but if you dont have the right person recommending you for a job, salary on the low end will always be the outcome


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