# Which afternoon module for the Civil PE is easiest?



## DanHalen

I am planning to take the Civil PE exam in April 2013 and want to give myself plenty of time to prepare. This fall I will be taking the School of PE's prep class to help me get prepared. From what I've read most people do fine with the CERM manual and refresher notes from the School of PE for the morning session but I'm not sure what to take for the afternoon session.

My biggest problem right now is picking an afternoon module. I have a little bit of experience with about all subjects so it's kind of like I'm the jack of all trades and master of none. The job that I've had over the past six years is doing design work on sanitary sewers, water mains, force mains, low pressure sewers, pump stations, erosion control plans, tracking projects in Primavera, and endless engineering reports. I feel that I have a pretty strong case for water resources but not so sure about the environmental because I've not had much experience with treatment plants. I've ruled out Structures and Geotech which leaves me with Transportation, Construction, and Water Resources/Environmental. My instinct is to pick the path of least resistance and I don't know which of these modules would qualify as the "path of least resistance." Most people recommend picking something that is closely related to your job. In my case, my job might be too narrowly focused to be of any benefit.

According to NCEES's website, they are revising the Construction and Transportation exams for April 2013. What I'm afraid of happening is that my prep class will be utterly worthless in preparing me for that exam since NCEES is changing it up. If Construction or Transportation is much easier than Water Resources/Environmental I'll take my chances on one of those two.

If I were to choose today (someone holding a gun to my head) I would probably choose Water Resources/Environmental. What references are needed for the afternoon session if I were to choose Water Resources/Environmental? I've read mixed reviews on almost every reference that people suggest. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to take to the exam that has taken the test recently? Can one of the admins post a poll as to which most reference book is the most helpful for the morning and afternoon session?


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## ptatohed

To answer your thread title question - *none*. There is no one universal easiest module for everyone. What's easiest to one examinee could be the hardest for another. Pick what you feel will be easiest for you. It sounds like maybe you should go with your gut feeling - go with Water Resources. A benefit to WR is that you won't have expensive codes to amass. Check the WR sub-forum for suggested references. You might not need much more than the CERM.

If you are still on the fence, pick the topic you did best in, or enjoyed the most, in college. If you are still undecided, then look at some sample exams and see if you feel more comfortable with one topic over the others.

Good luck.


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## desantmf

Where did you see on the NCEES website that the afternoon construction and transportation Exams are changing?

Also you have some time to decide, you shouldn't really buy your references until November. So just look over the depth portions of each afternoon module you are thinking about. Then figure out which one you have the most experience with or find the most interesting. Then choose...it is a pretty big decision because you are going to answer 48 out of 80 on the topic you choose. A passing raw score is usually 55 or 56 correct answers, so it is important to do well on your depth section. Good luck, whatever you decide just stick with it, study smart and don’t second guess yourself.



*"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of success." - Albert Einstein*

www.learncivilengineering.com


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## ptatohed

desantmf said:


> Where did you see on the NCEES website that the afternoon construction and transportation Exams are changing?
> 
> ...


desant, you already posted in a thread where I included a link to the changing Cons and Trans standards. :shakehead:

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=19945


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## desantmf

I know, I saw that link about the standards, however I wanted to know if anything is changing as far as the topics/format. But it doesn't look like they are changing any of that. Also for Construction Design Standards there is no change in standards, just a new effective date.


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## jeb6294

The simple answer is Water Resources.

I have a similar background and that's the afternoon module that I took. Can't really help you with the references to take because it's been a few years since I took the test and, I still have them, but they aren't exactly handy at the moment. I do remember that the NCEES Sample Exam and, I think it was a School of PE practice exam, were both invaluable when I was studying.


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## Fed

Transportation. If your environmental knowledge is limited, please stay away from water Resources. Do not even considere it.


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## K19

Fed said:


> Transportation. If your environmental knowledge is limited, please stay away from water Resources. Do not even considere it.


I have to disagree here, and will suggest that he trust his intuition in going with the WR/Env PM section. Truth is that very few candidates have an experience record that spans the entire breadth of a discipline, and my understanding is that this reflected in the exam's level of difficulty. What you describe below as having experience in actually a quite good foundation for the WR/Env syllabus - having hydraulics down is almost 1/2 the battle right there. FWIW I mainly do water resources, stormwater management, and environmental permitting (yep, a ton of reports) at my current job, and I'm taking the WR/Env next month. The water/wastewater treatment topics can be a bit heavy (especially if like me you haven't touched them since undergrad) but I haven't found the NCEES practice problems to be too hard. Again if you're solid with the principles (concentration, flow rate, etc.), the subject matter will feel pretty straightforward.



DanHalen said:


> The job that I've had over the past six years is doing design work on sanitary sewers, water mains, force mains, low pressure sewers, pump stations, erosion control plans


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## SlowNRusty

I am in the same quandry as the OP and also torn between Water Resources and Transportation.

I took Construction in April of this year and did not pass, after that exam my confidence in Construction is pretty low and is too much of a wild card that I am looking to either Water Resources or Transportation as my new depth for the approaching October exam.

I am worried about the Environmental and Wastewater treatment questions that could be asked in the afternoon. Especially Environmental as the topics could range from Cancer to Cold Water Fish! Can anyone recommend a good resource for Waste Water Treatment problems (Clarifiers, Aerators, Kinetic Eqn's \ MLSS etc), CERM and Goswami seem limited.

Thanks!


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## ptatohed

SlowNRusty said:


> I am in the same quandry as the OP and also torn between Water Resources and Transportation.
> 
> I took Construction in April of this year and did not pass, after that exam my confidence in Construction is pretty low and is too much of a wild card that I am looking to either Water Resources or Transportation as my new depth for the approaching October exam.
> 
> I am worried about the Environmental and Wastewater treatment questions that could be asked in the afternoon. Especially Environmental as the topics could range from Cancer to Cold Water Fish! Can anyone recommend a good resource for Waste Water Treatment problems (Clarifiers, Aerators, Kinetic Eqn's \ MLSS etc), CERM and Goswami seem limited.
> 
> Thanks!


You haven't selected your depth module yet? Isn't the exam next month? Don't you have to select your depth when you register? So you haven't been studying, it sounds like? You said you took Construction last time - did you purchase all of the required standards/study material? If you spent time studying for Cons and if you spent a lot of money on Cons depth standards/material, I say stick with it. Good luck.


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## DanHalen

Thanks for the replies and sharing your thoughts. If nothing else, I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who feels somewhat undecided. Earlier this week I pulled the trigger and nailed down WR/Env. I'm currently taking the School of PE's prep class and it's going well at the moment. Last year I took the FE prep class with the School of PE and studied my tail off. Most of the material is still somewhat fresh and it's making the PE refresher somewhat a snap. This weekend I will be taking the WR/Env. morning section and sometime the first week in October I will be taking the WR/Env. afternoon section. I looked over the notes for the afternoon session and feel that most of the problems were a copy and paste from the FE refresher course. Has anyone taken the School of PE prep class and took the WR/Env. afternoon session? Did you pass? Did you need any additional materials besides what the School of PE and CERM offer?

@ desantmf) To answer your question about the depth exams changing I got the information here: http://www.ncbels.org/examchanges.html


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## kmjones29

I actually don't know anyone who has failed the WR/Env depth exam (I used to work for a pretty big company and for every test usually 1-2 people at least were taking WR/Env), but I do know plenty of people who have failed construction, geotech and structural, some more than once. Sounds like you made the right choice based on your job description. My last job was very similar and we did hardly any actual treatment design and people were still able to pass. One of my co workers got married and went on her honeymoon in the month before the exam, so she clearly didn't have much time to study and she passed. I am also taking WR/Env and I'm hoping not to be the first person I know to fail it  good luck!!

For my references I just have the CERM, the depth reference manual from PPI (http://ppi2pass.com/shop/pe-exams-18/civil-pe-exam/water-resources-and-environmental-depth-reference-manual-for-the-civil-pe-exam-cewe.html) which actually isn't even that helpful because everything in it is also in the CERM, and a Metcalf &amp; Eddy textbook. The M&amp;E book is very useful and I got a 1991 edition for $10 online. It has just about everything you need for wastewater, but I don't know if you'd have time to get one and review it before Friday.


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## dana

Transportation. Is the easiest.


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## ptatohed

dana said:


> Transportation. Is the easiest.


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## egdad4

April 2012's construction was fairly straightforward for me!! Can't vouch for other modules as I didn't have to try them!! I believe it's advisable to take a module that best aligns to your work experience.


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## prk

DanHalen said:


> Thanks for the replies and sharing your thoughts. If nothing else, I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who feels somewhat undecided. Earlier this week I pulled the trigger and nailed down WR/Env. I'm currently taking the School of PE's prep class and it's going well at the moment. Last year I took the FE prep class with the School of PE and studied my tail off. Most of the material is still somewhat fresh and it's making the PE refresher somewhat a snap. This weekend I will be taking the WR/Env. morning section and sometime the first week in October I will be taking the WR/Env. afternoon section. I looked over the notes for the afternoon session and feel that most of the problems were a copy and paste from the FE refresher course. Has anyone taken the School of PE prep class and took the WR/Env. afternoon session? Did you pass? Did you need any additional materials besides what the School of PE and CERM offer?
> 
> @ desantmf) To answer your question about the depth exams changing I got the information here: http://www.ncbels.org/examchanges.html


I want to know whether you have taken the PE test? If so, which PM module?

I am also taking the school of PE classes, which I found similar to FE (afternoon) refresher courses.


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## DanHalen

prk said:


> DanHalen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies and sharing your thoughts. If nothing else, I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who feels somewhat undecided. Earlier this week I pulled the trigger and nailed down WR/Env. I'm currently taking the School of PE's prep class and it's going well at the moment. Last year I took the FE prep class with the School of PE and studied my tail off. Most of the material is still somewhat fresh and it's making the PE refresher somewhat a snap. This weekend I will be taking the WR/Env. morning section and sometime the first week in October I will be taking the WR/Env. afternoon section. I looked over the notes for the afternoon session and feel that most of the problems were a copy and paste from the FE refresher course. Has anyone taken the School of PE prep class and took the WR/Env. afternoon session? Did you pass? Did you need any additional materials besides what the School of PE and CERM offer?
> 
> @ desantmf) To answer your question about the depth exams changing I got the information here: http://www.ncbels.org/examchanges.html
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know whether you have taken the PE test? If so, which PM module?
> 
> I am also taking the school of PE classes, which I found similar to FE (afternoon) refresher courses.
Click to expand...

To answer your question prk, yes I have taken the PE Water Resources/Env exam. I skipped buying some really important books like a Water Resources book, Metcalf &amp; Eddy, NCEES study guide, Six Minute Solutions, and All-in-One. I wouldn't recommend that anyone do that because the School of PE notes and CERM is not enough for the afternoon. I got the bad news a few weeks ago and have started a new program of study and purchased all highly recommended references. I am going to spend the summer going through them with a fine tooth comb and tabbing really important topics.

When I was taking the School of PE's prep class I remember after every lecture the instructors would encourage us to study other material but I never did. When I took the FE exam they said the same thing but turned out their notes was all you needed to study. The FE review manual was pretty useless and I never opened it when I started studying. I thought the PE exam would be about the same and rarely used CERM. The morning part is what hurt me the most and I will need to spend some time on the fab five before retaking. This time I plan to follow NCEES's guidelines and work all problems in CERM, All-in-One, Six Minute Solutions, and NCEES Study Guide accordingly. It would be nice if School of PE or someone who was familiar with the exam would say .... "you need to study problems 5-8 in Transportation in CERM..." and so on. NCEES's guidelines aren't to be taken as gospel because they do test outside the topics on their outline. It's hard to figure out what to study and how much is enough. One could easily spend their entire career just studying problems because there are lots of them out there. The afternoon isn't the big bad boogie man you think it is. The environmental part is straight forward and basic environmental engineering. If you took environmental engineering and feel comfortable with that course you will do well. The qualitative questions is where you will be in for a surprise if you're lacking in references like I was. I would have come close to acing the afternoon had I taken more references.


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