# Architectural Engineering PE



## Ritchie503 (Oct 25, 2007)

Thought I would start a topic for the Architectural Engineering PE Exam.

I know there is not a lot of reference material for this exam, so if anyone is planning to take it in April (Only time its offered) feel free to use me as a resource (I took it April 2007 and passed).


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## owillis28 (Dec 17, 2007)

Ritchie503 said:


> Thought I would start a topic for the Architectural Engineering PE Exam.
> I know there is not a lot of reference material for this exam, so if anyone is planning to take it in April (Only time its offered) feel free to use me as a resource (I took it April 2007 and passed).


What does an Architectural Engineer do?


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## kswildcats (Dec 27, 2007)

I just took the Mechanical PE last October and did not pass. Now I am trying to decide which exam to take come this April. I practice MEP engineering on a daily basis, but I have not touched Structural since school approx 5 years ago. I have all the study material for the ME (obviously it did not help), but I cannot find a whole lot for the Arch E. I have heard the Arch E test is not easy and wonder if I would be better off taking the ME test again. Anyone have any thoughts or have ever talked to someone that has taken both tests? Thanks


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## Ritchie503 (Jan 2, 2008)

owillis28 said:


> What does an Architectural Engineer do?


Good question as I think many are not familiar with the term. Architectural Engineering is really a mix or renaming of other types of engineering specifically for the building construction industry. Most people with an AE degree probably refer to themselves as: 1) Structural Engineers 2) Mechanical Engineers 3) Electrical Engineers.

Personally I am an electrical guy, I went the AE degree route because it seems like EE degrees taught a lot of electronics type stuff - which was not my interest. The AE degree taught electrical more as it pertained to buildings in addition to Construction Management/Structural/Mechanical building systems.


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## Ritchie503 (Jan 2, 2008)

kswildcats said:


> I just took the Mechanical PE last October and did not pass. Now I am trying to decide which exam to take come this April. I practice MEP engineering on a daily basis, but I have not touched Structural since school approx 5 years ago. I have all the study material for the ME (obviously it did not help), but I cannot find a whole lot for the Arch E. I have heard the Arch E test is not easy and wonder if I would be better off taking the ME test again. Anyone have any thoughts or have ever talked to someone that has taken both tests? Thanks


Finding resources/study materials for the AE exam is one of the toughest things, I went through all of this myself. I also debated what exam to take (AE or EE-power). If you work on MEP on a daily basis, I think you really need to give taking it serious consideration. Finding references/books is difficult, I will try to help, but in general just remember you need to find books that cover the subjects of the AE exam even though they were not written for the AE exam (Ask coworkers/engineering friends/etc what books they have so you don't have to buy as many). Here are few things by the four major sections of the test:

Structural (27%):

This was by far the toughest portion of the test for me, I think the same will be true for you. I basically used two references/books for this, one was the Structural portion of the Civil Engineering Review Manual, and the other was a book called "Architecture Exam Review: Volume 1 - Structural Topics". Neither book was written for the exam I took but the content is so similar it worked. I went though both of them in their entirety, it took a lot of time but it was my weakest subject. I did also use the LRFD Steel Manual quite a bit which I was not familiar with at all until studying for the exam, there are tables with information in them that may become useful. I did also have the ACI 318 book I borrowed from someone which while not as helpful as the other books was ok, I didn't have any prior experience with this. My friend who took the AE exam a year earlier has a Civil Engineering/Construction Management degree found it quite useful (I am sure their score on the structural portion was way higher than mine, we both passed but you can make the points us in Mech/Elec as I did). My theory on this section was to try and get some right, but knew it was never my strong point.

Construction Management/General Knowledge (27%):

These are two separate subjects in exam breakdown but I combine them as I look at the test as only have 4 major sections. If you work in MEP, the General Knowledge part should be pretty easy – not a lot you can study for here in my opinion. (BTW: KSWildCats what is your college degree in?) As for construction management, the 2 most important things to you need to know how to do are schedules and engineering economics. If you don’t have one, get an engineering economics book – the book I have is small, I went over it briefly to understand how to use the tables in the back (you’ll need it for the tables). The IBC (International Building Code) book was also helpful to bring.

Mechanical (23%):

Since you attempted the ME exam, I assume this is your strong point and you have all the references you need (What ME Depth did you attempt KSWildCats?) Here is what I used: I had a book called “Mechanical &amp; Electrical Systems in Buildings” by Tao/Janis from college (read the entire mechanical section – There books like this from other authors that are as good or better). I bought the “Six Minute Solutions for PE Exam – HVAC &amp; Refrigeration Problems” book and solved all of those problems for practice as they are very similar to the exam. My friend had used a ‘Ductilator’ quite a bit, I didn’t use it but it would be worth bringing. I also bought the NFPA Pocket Guide to Sprinkler Installation. Mechanical was stuff I hadn’t really used a lot since college but it all came back to me as I reviewed it.

Electrical (23%):

This was a strong point for me being an electrical guy, here is what I used: I used the NEC Handbook (I prefer the handbook over the code book) a lot on the exam, its essential to have one of them. I am familiar with the book, but if I wasn’t I would maybe copy some of the common stuff out of it and have it in a binder (ex: 310.16, 430.52, 430.250, conduit fill tables, etc.) or at least tab it. I used ‘Uglys Electrical Reference’ as well, the book is short/small but has a lot of good stuff (I like their shortcut way of doing powerfactor correction – I used it to check my longhand way. Also has some items tables I listed to copy from the code book). I also brought my SquareD (GE also has one) motor calculator slide rule, it has FLC for motors, conductor ampacities, conduit fill (for EMT only), etc (quicker than looking it up in the codebook sometimes). I also had used some stuff out of the ME Systems book I mentioned above under mechanical, mainly used it for lighting – know how to do lighting calculations.

Other Info/Thoughts:

Advice that is in other areas of this board for general preparation applies to this exam as well, but I’ll repeat a few things anyway. FE formula book may be worth bringing. Tab/Highlight while going through the references. I copied/transferred formulas onto several sheets that I brought in my binder to have quick access to them – with units and some unit conversions. You don’t need to know the exact answer, just approximate answer (or just knowing what answer isn’t right). Read the questions carefully to be sure you know what they are looking for (ex: when you end up with 4.5 do you choose 4 or 5).

Overall on most subjects I think the questions are more general about the specific topic instead of extremely deep/complicated.

There is a list of references/books issued by NCEES or someone who worked on writing the exam, if you don’t have a copy of it or can’t find it let me know.

You MUST get the AE Practice Exam &amp; Solutions. I sat down and took it as an 8hr test (just like the real one) one day, its most helpful to simulate the real exam. Take the practice exam at least 1 month before the test! This is important because taking the practice exam will give you a good feel of what will be on the actual exam while having enough time work on some weak spots (My friend &amp; I failed the practice exam by the way). I got through the Mech/Elec/CM/General sections of the actual exam in 2 hrs which left me 2 hrs to try to figure out the structural portion.

Hope this helps you (and others) out – I know it’s a bit long. Please feel free to ask other questions and best of luck to you! Let me know what exam you decide to take. ~Ritchie


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## Bman (Jan 28, 2008)

Ritchie,

Thanks for the excellent info. I am looking into taking the PE exam in April '09 and was leaning toward mechanical since that is what my degree is in, but I think the architectural is much more geared toward what I actually do. I am actually getting my MS in Project Management from Boston University right now (part of the reason for the April '09 date), so the construction management section should be a cakewalk for me. Anyway, I appreciate all the info you put together, I printed it out and will definitely be referring to towards the end of the year!


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## Ritchie503 (Jan 29, 2008)

Bman said:


> Ritchie,Thanks for the excellent info. I am looking into taking the PE exam in April '09 and was leaning toward mechanical since that is what my degree is in, but I think the architectural is much more geared toward what I actually do. I am actually getting my MS in Project Management from Boston University right now (part of the reason for the April '09 date), so the construction management section should be a cakewalk for me. Anyway, I appreciate all the info you put together, I printed it out and will definitely be referring to towards the end of the year!


Glad it helped since it did take awhile to type! I think the CM part is basic anyway, I had one CM class and thought that part of the test was easy. I think a lot of people avoid the AE exam (aren't aware of it, lack of people who have taken it, lack of study materials for it). Good luck finishing your MS degree, if you come up with other question/etc feel free to post them, I know the exam is out a bit for you.


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## Brad Carne (Feb 1, 2008)

Great information. I will be taking it in April. Do you know where I can find an updated Reference Guide. The one I have is outdated.


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## Ritchie503 (Feb 18, 2008)

Brad Carne said:


> Great information. I will be taking it in April. Do you know where I can find an updated Reference Guide. The one I have is outdated.


I attached what I have for a reference list that I had found. There are a lot on the list, I don't think it is possible to bring them all.

I do want to say one thing about the 'year' of the code book. One that is the current code cycle is great, but using one that is up to a few code cycles old I think will work overall on the exam. An older code book may be easier to find (or a heck of a lot cheaper), the intent of the PE exam is not to test on all the code changes from the previous code cycle. Thats my :2cents:


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## kswildcats (Mar 21, 2008)

Ritchie503,

Thanks for the advice. I kind of forgot to check back on the website to see if anyone replied.

I graduated with a BS in Architectrual Engineering. I do all MEP design, but particulary like electrical most.

I did the HVAC and Refrigeration depth portion of the afternoon ME test.

I signed up for the AE test, but I am concerned about the structural portion. I have a lot of books from college, but that was the last time I cracked any of them open.

My biggest problem is trying to find the time to study. My problem with the ME test was I could work the majority of the problems if I would have more time. Now I have so much reference material I am trying to organize it to be as efficient as possible during the test.

Thanks again for all your advice.

kswildcats


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## Ritchie503 (Mar 28, 2008)

kswildcats said:


> Ritchie503,Thanks for the advice. I kind of forgot to check back on the website to see if anyone replied.
> 
> I graduated with a BS in Architectrual Engineering. I do all MEP design, but particulary like electrical most.
> 
> ...


The number of replies on this thread is low.. but thats ok, I knew it would be but still wanted to help those very few who are going to take the AE-PE. Since you like doing electrical, I think that portion will be pretty easy for you as should the HVAC questions. As I said I did the HVAC depth six minute solutions, if you can do that well I think you are should do well on the HVAC question on the AE-PE. The structual was tough, its hard to sit down and study something you don't enjoy, don't really understand, etc. Its just hard to sit down and study.. But you don't want to go though this PE test taking process again so you know best of what you need to do to make this one your last.

Personally I like to understand the concepts behind the problem vs just how to solve a specific problem. You never know exactly how a problem will be worded/what will be asked, I think knowing the comcepts help be able to figure out. There are other threads on this.

If I can be of assistance feel free to ask. Let me know how the exam goes and the hopefully positive results. And best of luck to you and everyone else!


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## Mike_NC (May 7, 2008)

Ritchie503,

Thank you for all of the helpful information you have posted thus far..

I am starting to research and consider which PE Exam discipline to take in April 2009 also.

My background is in Civil/Construction Engineering, however I have just started working in MEP System Design.

I bought the Civil Book produced by NCEES and feel familiar with a lot of it, mostly b/c those are the classes I took in school. I have also just got the Arch. Engineering Manual produced by ASCE.

However my company would like for me to pursue the Arch. exam since that is what I am practicing or starting to practice.

What is turning me off to the idea so far is the limited amount of resources availble. Civil has reference books, sample questions, practice exams, university level review courses, etc. Where as w/ Arch. I feel I am on my own..

I feel comfortable w/ Structural and Construction Admin, however I am working on plumbing but have yet to dive into Electrical or Mechanical Design.. other than CAD work..

Any opinions or advice?

Thanks..


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## Bman (May 8, 2008)

Ritchie503,

I was looking at AEI's website and I found this map of states that currently offer the AE exam (http://content.aeinstitute.org/images/state2.jpg). Since there are a handful that do not offer the exam, do you know if there are any issues with reciprocity in these states if we pass the AE exam in another state? It seems like it would be a bigger problem for states that make you declare your dispcipline such as mechanical, electrical, civil, etc. as opposed to states that simply license you as a professional engineer. I'm really leaning toward the AE exam at this point, but I am getting a little hung up on this issue. Not sure if I should just take the ME exam and be safe or just hope that these few states approve the exam before it ever becomes an issue for me....


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## Ritchie503 (May 14, 2008)

Mike_NC said:


> Ritchie503,Thank you for all of the helpful information you have posted thus far..
> 
> I am starting to research and consider which PE Exam discipline to take in April 2009 also.
> 
> ...


It sounds as if my weakness are your strenghts! I think the most difficult part of the AE-PE is getting stuff together to feel comfortable to sit for the exam, since few take it there just isn't much out there direclty for it.. Like I said before, all the subjects on it there are books/etc for, it just a matter of putting together a collection for the exam (well and knowing how to use whats in them). It honestly took some time to find what I needed, thats why I am sharing my experience.. I want you to feel less on your own than I did. If it makes you feel better, I know two others who took the AE-PE exam the same time I did, I don't know them well and didn't know they were taking the exam until we were in the room, all three of us passed. Am I correct in assuming that you have very limited experience in mechanical/electrical?

I think you have 1/2 of the exam covered, as for mechanical/electrial here is my take: Get a book that is about mechanical/electrical systems in buildings and read it. I had used the Tao/Janis book but there are others out there. Sit down and do the problems in Six Minute Solutions for PE Exam – HVAC &amp; Refrigeration Problems”, I think this is actually a great book of problems. If you can do the problems in this book you shouldn't have any issues on the mechanical portion of the exam.

As for electrical, for sure don't just open the code book and try to understand it. I think the mechanical/electrical systems in buildings book is the place to start. With the electrical part, I would say to keep it simple (goes for mechanical too), don't get too focused in on one area. There is a lot to any dicipline, but questions will more likely be general/entry level type questions. Not sure of a good sampling of electrial questions other than the AE Practice Exam &amp; Solutions - could start there. The reason I don't have any other electrical references is that I didn't study this area at all. You could search the books at Construction Book Express to see if you can find something, I had bought other books there. Be aware when searching that there is a lot of books for the electrical journeyman/masters exams, these books would have more advanced/deeper questions/code questions than you will see on the AE-PE.

Hope some of this helps?

~Ritchie503


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## Ritchie503 (May 14, 2008)

Bman said:


> I was looking at AEI's website and I found this map of states that currently offer the AE exam (http://content.aeinstitute.org/images/state2.jpg). Since there are a handful that do not offer the exam, do you know if there are any issues with reciprocity in these states if we pass the AE exam in another state? It seems like it would be a bigger problem for states that make you declare your dispcipline such as mechanical, electrical, civil, etc. as opposed to states that simply license you as a professional engineer. I'm really leaning toward the AE exam at this point, but I am getting a little hung up on this issue. Not sure if I should just take the ME exam and be safe or just hope that these few states approve the exam before it ever becomes an issue for me....


I have not had to deal with reciprocity issues, all the states around here have the AE. I think a state that doesn't have the AE-PE may not let you get a PE liscense in that state? The best thing to do is call which ever state you think you may submitt a comity application to and see what their rules are. In states that just liscense as a PE (not the discipline specific thing) you at least dont' have to explain why the stamp says AE when you are claiming to be an electrical or mechanical guy. I am glad that the majority of states do offer the AE-PE.


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## Mike_NC (May 15, 2008)

Ritchie503

Thanks for the help and advice..

You were correct, I have no/limited actual mechanical/electrical design. As I said, I am entry level in that type position now, however I am getting acclimated w/ plumbing and CAD and haven't even started focusing on M or E.

I guess with all of the Civil Resources, it is taking a lot to turn away from that and start gearing toward an arch. one..

Also, what are your feelings on licensure/practicing.. As far as my degree in civil/construction, pass the civil/construction, then "practice" MEP, which is basically architectural.. I know on the Civil-Construction board, there was ALOT of debate and arguing over that recently.. haha..

Do you have any specific texts you found helpful on the M &amp; E? Or just a general Building system design adequate?

Also, any hints on the "general" info that is 12%..

This exam being a single 8 hr exam.. do you get the entire exam in the morning to pace yourself as youd like, or do they give you "half" in the morning and a second "half" in the afternoon.. ?

Thanks for your help and insight.

Mike


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## Ritchie503 (May 20, 2008)

Mike_NC said:


> You were correct, I have no/limited actual mechanical/electrical design. As I said, I am entry level in that type position now, however I am getting acclimated w/ plumbing and CAD and haven't even started focusing on M or E.I guess with all of the Civil Resources, it is taking a lot to turn away from that and start gearing toward an arch. one..
> 
> Also, what are your feelings on licensure/practicing.. As far as my degree in civil/construction, pass the civil/construction, then "practice" MEP, which is basically architectural.. I know on the Civil-Construction board, there was ALOT of debate and arguing over that recently.. haha..
> 
> ...


Mike you are welcome for the advice, I am glad I can be of assistance (and that my AE-PE exam thread is actually getting some activity!! I know how little is out there on this exam).

I think it is fine to have limited work experience on portions of the AE-PE exam, for example I do electrical for my job. I do know the basics of HVAC/Plumbing, I had some of it in college and it came back to me rather quickly to where I think I did very well on that portion of the exam. What you do day to day at work and what is the the exam many not be exactly the same, I think the exam is overally more basic but at work I get indepth on certain stuff. Hopefully you see my point? I wouldn't let this scare you.

If you have all the civil resources and the knowledge to pass the Civil exam, it would be tough to go redo all of that for a different exam. Most people currently practing MEP who have a PE liscense did not do the Architectural PE as it is so new. If your state lets you practice in any dicipline, it shouldn't matter which exam you take. Like I stated in a previous post, make sure whatever states you plan to do comity applications for will accept the AE-PE for what you will need to sign. The Civil PE is more widely accepted and you may have fewer reprocity issues with that one. So honestly, if civil is your strong point and you can do the civil exam, that may be best for you. Fun decision right? I know you prefer not to retake the exam.

I think you need a book that is specifically mechanical/electrical systems unless the overall building design book goes indepth for M&amp;E. There are so many other systems in buildings that don't apply to the exam (curtain wall systems, etc.) The specific text I used for mechanical/electrical (ok I didn't read the electrical section but I know it has one, I knew the electrical well enough that I didn't study it. I will try to look through my book to see if the electrical part looks like it covers whats needed, I know it covers lighting calculations well). The newer version of the one I used is "Mechanical &amp; Electrical Systems in Buildings" Janis/Tao, ISBN-10: 0135130131 ISBN-13: 978-0135130131. Another option that may be better (my friend went to a different school and used this one) is "Mechanical &amp; Electrical Equipment for Buildings" Stein/Reynolds/..../.... ISBN-10: 0471465917 ISBN-13: 978-0471465911. You can preview pages of the second one on Amazon.com

As for the general portion, if the "constrution" part of your degree was in reference to 'building construction' I think you will be fine. If you have a general sense of how a building goes together and general knowledge of the materials its made of, then again should be fine.

As for any version of the PE exam you take, you will get a set of questions for the morning section (exactly 1/2 for the AE-PE, some civil exams I think do a different number of questions in the afternoon) and turn them in to never see them again. You will then get the rest of the questions in the afternoon. The reason is if they gave you all of the questions in the morning and let you go to lunch, you could ask people (taking the exam or offsite) over lunch and then use that info when you go back in... I think you get the picture, and its a good thing this is not allowed to happen. Manage your time in each half, I got through it and had enough time to do the ones I understood. Personally here is what I did: I went though the exam in order by question, I tried to answer it, if I did I marked it down on the answer sheet, if I was unsure I flagged it to look at it later, and if I had no clue (which would be most sturctural questions for me) I skipped it and did it last. At the end I did go back over all the problems quickly to look for major mistakes (when in a rush you can do silly things). Some questions I was stumped on earlier during my 2nd look, it was like 'ah stupid Ritchie, here is how you do this'. I think there is enough time for the exam if you are prepared. (other parts of the form may cover this, or throw it out there in a different section and I am sure you will get opinions.). I did the mechanical/electrical/general-CM portion (about 75% of the exam) in about 2 1/2 hrs, leaving the rest (1 1/2 hrs) to pull my hair out on structural questions.

Once again, my post turned out long... Hope this helps... Feel free to keep asking questions and best of luck with whichever exam you take.

~Ritchie503


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## TAGGIES (May 20, 2008)

Ritchie503 said:


> Mike you are welcome for the advice, I am glad I can be of assistance (and that my AE-PE exam thread is actually getting some activity!! I know how little is out there on this exam). I think it is fine to have limited work experience on portions of the AE-PE exam, for example I do electrical for my job. I do know the basics of HVAC/Plumbing, I had some of it in college and it came back to me rather quickly to where I think I did very well on that portion of the exam. What you do day to day at work and what is the the exam many not be exactly the same, I think the exam is overally more basic but at work I get indepth on certain stuff. Hopefully you see my point? I wouldn't let this scare you.
> 
> If you have all the civil resources and the knowledge to pass the Civil exam, it would be tough to go redo all of that for a different exam. Most people currently practing MEP who have a PE liscense did not do the Architectural PE as it is so new. If your state lets you practice in any dicipline, it shouldn't matter which exam you take. Like I stated in a previous post, make sure whatever states you plan to do comity applications for will accept the AE-PE for what you will need to sign. The Civil PE is more widely accepted and you may have fewer reprocity issues with that one. So honestly, if civil is your strong point and you can do the civil exam, that may be best for you. Fun decision right? I know you prefer not to retake the exam.
> 
> ...


I am being today by odering the "Ugly Electrical Reference", "2005 Dr. Watts Pocket Electrical Guide, "The Ductular - Duct Sizing Calculator, Trane, 1998" and "The Civil Engineering Reference Manual fo tht PE Exam" . Thanks for the advice!


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## Ritchie503 (May 20, 2008)

TAGGIES said:


> I am being today by odering the "Ugly Electrical Reference", "2005 Dr. Watts Pocket Electrical Guide, "The Ductular - Duct Sizing Calculator, Trane, 1998" and "The Civil Engineering Reference Manual fo tht PE Exam" . Thanks for the advice!



Good for you to start collecting reference material. Glad to see you found this tread, and congrats on your first post. If you have any questions feel free to ask and welcome to the fourm.


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## KSU-ARE (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm glad to see that a forum has been started on this subject as I'm starting to look for reference material for the AE PE exam in April 2009. As the rest, I ran in to a wall when looking for such material and study guides. I graduated from Kansas State with bachelors in Architectural Engineering and have been doing Electrical since. After talking to a lot of people who have taken the EE PE, I was fairly certain I did not want to go that rout as it seemed to me that 90% of people with AE degree do not pass that exam. So now after finding out that majority of the states do offer AE PE exam, that is the rout I plan to go. Although I have not done structural for a wile now, I don't think it will be THE toughest for me as we did have a number of classes in it back and school and i do still have all my class notebooks with notes. (Thank god they graded us on how our notebook was organized and how neat it was). Construction Management is something I did not take any classes on, so will definitely need some time on that.

Can you tell us how in depth they went with electrical? Did they make you do lighting calculations and is it good idea to copy the recommended lighting levels from IES Handbook. Also, how much is there on Engineering Economics? Anything on LEED or ASHRAE 90.2?

Anyone who has taken the test, please feel free to thorough out a list books and other study materials that you felt was the most helpful in studding, or you felt was the most used during the test.

Thank you for all of your help!!!


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## GT ME (Jul 23, 2008)

First of all, Architorture is not engineering.

In a top school, the SATs for achitecture students is several hundred points lower than the main engineering disciplines of Chemical, Electrical, &amp; Mechanical. In fact, the SATs for achitecture was over a 100 points lower than Civil, which was lower than the 3 main engineering disciplines discribed above.


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## StructuralPoke (Jul 24, 2008)

GT ME said:


> First of all, Architorture is not engineering.
> In a top school, the SATs for achitecture students is several hundred points lower than the main engineering disciplines of Chemical, Electrical, &amp; Mechanical. In fact, the SATs for achitecture was over a 100 points lower than Civil, which was lower than the 3 main engineering disciplines discribed above.



You know not of what you speak. Yes, architecture is not engineering, but architectural engineering is indeed engineering. If not, that diploma on my wall is not worth the paper it is printed on.

An AE can have different paths in school -- they can go structural -- like me, electical, acoustical, mechanical, etc. The reason I didn't take the AE PE was because I only know structural and it was a very small part of the test.

Anyway, I do hope you are sufficiently puffed up over how your (an engineer) SAT may have been higher than someone elses (an architect). Hurray for you.


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## StructuralPoke (Jul 24, 2008)

http://content.aeinstitute.org/static/faq.html

*What do architectural engineers do?*

Architectural engineers generally specialize in one of a number of disciplines related to building design and construction including: structural engineering; electrical engineering (with an emphasis on building systems design); heating, ventilation and air conditioning; lighting; or construction. Each specialty area requires very different talents and responsibilities; however, all architectural engineers have a common interest in buildings.


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## GT ME (Jul 25, 2008)

Figured you achitorture people would be bringing out the wup azz spray.

That's kinda scary when you say AE can go structural -- this is where I'm stupid....

I think structural should follow down the Civil Engineering Path -- and nowhere else.



StructuralPoke said:


> You know not of what you speak. Yes, architecture is not engineering, but architectural engineering is indeed engineering. If not, that diploma on my wall is not worth the paper it is printed on.
> An AE can have different paths in school -- they can go structural -- like me, electical, acoustical, mechanical, etc. The reason I didn't take the AE PE was because I only know structural and it was a very small part of the test.
> 
> Anyway, I do hope you are sufficiently puffed up over how your (an engineer) SAT may have been higher than someone elses (an architect). Hurray for you.


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## GT ME (Jul 25, 2008)

Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning, &amp; Refrigeration -- this is unconscionable -- those donkeys at NCEES are lost.

HVACR has nothing to do with AE -- it's closely related to Thermodynamics &amp; Mechanical Engineering.

I'm dissapointed to hear the paths AE can go (not personally, but from an engineering stance).

How the hell does NCEES differentiate from AE, Structural, &amp; Civil -- thoughts please.



StructuralPoke said:


> http://content.aeinstitute.org/static/faq.html
> *What do architectural engineers do?*
> 
> Architectural engineers generally specialize in one of a number of disciplines related to building design and construction including: structural engineering; electrical engineering (with an emphasis on building systems design); heating, ventilation and air conditioning; lighting; or construction. Each specialty area requires very different talents and responsibilities; however, all architectural engineers have a common interest in buildings.


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## Ritchie503 (Jul 28, 2008)

KSU-ARE said:


> I'm glad to see that a forum has been started on this subject as I'm starting to look for reference material for the AE PE exam in April 2009. As the rest, I ran in to a wall when looking for such material and study guides. I graduated from Kansas State with bachelors in Architectural Engineering and have been doing Electrical since. After talking to a lot of people who have taken the EE PE, I was fairly certain I did not want to go that rout as it seemed to me that 90% of people with AE degree do not pass that exam. So now after finding out that majority of the states do offer AE PE exam, that is the rout I plan to go. Although I have not done structural for a wile now, I don't think it will be THE toughest for me as we did have a number of classes in it back and school and i do still have all my class notebooks with notes. (Thank god they graded us on how our notebook was organized and how neat it was). Construction Management is something I did not take any classes on, so will definitely need some time on that.
> Can you tell us how in depth they went with electrical? Did they make you do lighting calculations and is it good idea to copy the recommended lighting levels from IES Handbook. Also, how much is there on Engineering Economics? Anything on LEED or ASHRAE 90.2?
> 
> Anyone who has taken the test, please feel free to thorough out a list books and other study materials that you felt was the most helpful in studding, or you felt was the most used during the test.
> ...


Glad I can be some help to you during your studying and reference material gathering adventure (looking back this may the be tougher part for this PE exam). Well for the PE, they don't look at anything other than your answer, so backup/neatness doesn't matter (which can be both an advantage and a disadvanage). How in depth they get on electrical is tough to describe, since I deal with in on an day to day basis (I did not know some structual stuff as well as others, but the real goal is beating the cut score - if it was all structual I would not have done it - same for others in other areas). I have said before you must know how to do lighting calculations (this is to answer select questions correct without guessing), I am certain lighting calculations questions will show up again. If you have access to a IES handbook, it would not hurt to bring it. Some of the engineering economics questions were very simple to me, but I deal with cost type stuff on a daily basis. LEED I feel is handeled under a separate exam, looking at the NCEES list of subjects, I do not see LEED mentioned. The list I posted of sources for the exam does include ASHRAE 90.1 (from what I recall from memory) although I really didn't use it. Hope this helps.

~Ritchie503


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 28, 2008)

Ritchie503 said:


> but the real goal is beating the cut score


False.

You do not know the cut score going into the exam, nor do you know the cut score even after you get your results. Therefore, it is an undefinable goal to reach for the cut score. Your goal should be to have a basic understanding of every topic in the study guides so that you can at least make an educated guess on every single question. If you can get to that point, the cut score will take care of itself.


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## Ritchie503 (Jul 28, 2008)

wilheldp_PE said:


> False.
> You do not know the cut score going into the exam, nor do you know the cut score even after you get your results. Therefore, it is an undefinable goal to reach for the cut score. Your goal should be to have a basic understanding of every topic in the study guides so that you can at least make an educated guess on every single question. If you can get to that point, the cut score will take care of itself.


The real goal is to pass the exam; there are different ways to accomplish this which are in various other threads. I may have had a poor choice of words, but yes I agree it is best to know the subject matter that will be on the exam type which will help to do your best at every question. Which topics to study, how much on a certain topic, etc. is all going to be dependent on the examinee. Aim high and do your best.


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## StructuralPoke (Jul 28, 2008)

GT ME said:


> Figured you achitorture people would be bringing out the wup azz spray.
> That's kinda scary when you say AE can go structural -- this is where I'm stupid....
> 
> I think structural should follow down the Civil Engineering Path -- and nowhere else.


I don't think you understand what an AE really is. We aren't an architecture student that just took an extra class or two. Yes, it's true, I had to take some architectural design courses. I even had to take a couple of architectural history classes. That was in addition to my steel design classes, concrete design classes, timber, masonry, analysis classes (matrix methods), structural dynamics (in addition to basic staics and dynamics and all the other basic engineering courses), programming, foundations, soils... Oh yeah, acoustics and mechanical systems just to get a flavor for the other AE options. The only thing I didn't take was a AASHTO class. No clue about bridges going into the SE1.

An AE's education is somewhat parallel to an architect's, that's true. I like to say we had to take a couple of their design classes (to realize it really is just a bunch of pretty lines) and they had to take our structural materials classes (to realize it isn't pushing a button). I would be scared shitless if the architects I went to school with were responsible for the structure (like they were no too long ago!). The were not good with the numbers and we weren't good with the pretty part of design. We helped them and they helped us -- it taught us about the relationship we will have/endure/suffer through once we get out of school.

My office is full of AEs and Civils. The AEs come out of school knowing the processes/steps/relationships required to put a building together as well as the numbers. They know the building codes and how to run the numbers and especially detailing. The civils here in the office really know the numbers behind the design, but they are unfamiliar with the building codes and detailing is especially foreign to them (to start with). My buddy is a CE and I'll be honest, he does know some of his materials stuff better than me and the other AEs, but it took a little while for him to get comfortable with the codes and detailing.

If I had to do it again, I would still be an AE, but I would have taken an AASHTO class as an elective.

I cannot talk about the other tracts that an AE can go. Structural was the only option at my university and I didn't even know of the other tracts until I went to a national AEI conference. My education on acoustical and mechanical was limited to a single course, while I know that if a AE went the mech'l route, they would have all of their "upper level" classes going over thermo properties and HVAC systems just as mine covered structure.

That's why I took the SE1 not the AE. Structural is what I do, and I'm _fairly_ good at it honestly -- so please don't imply that my education and/or ability is somehow second hand.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 28, 2008)

wilheldp_PE said:


> False.
> You do not know the cut score going into the exam, nor do you know the cut score even after you get your results. Therefore, it is an undefinable goal to reach for the cut score. Your goal should be to have a basic understanding of every topic in the study guides so that you can at least make an educated guess on every single question. If you can get to that point, the cut score will take care of itself.


I don't know of ANYONE who said their goal in taking the PE exam was to *gain* basic understanding of every topic in the study guides. The almost universal goal is the pass the exam in order to get licensed, and I disagree with your claim that doing so requires beating the cutscore.

To pass you have to convince NCEES that you are a minimally qualified engineer - and that doesn't require well-rounded knowledge (though it would sure help!). It just requires that you do better than the cut score (whatever it may be).

As an example that is counter to your recommendation, there are some problems that may appear on the exam which will require more than six minutes to solve (e.g. culverts, piping circuits, etc.). My advice is to pass over them and return only if there's sufficient time.


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## wilheldp_PE (Jul 28, 2008)

IlPadrino said:


> I don't know of ANYONE who said their goal in taking the PE exam was to *gain* basic understanding of every topic in the study guides. The almost universal goal is the pass the exam in order to get licensed, and I disagree with your claim that doing so requires beating the cutscore.
> To pass you have to convince NCEES that you are a minimally qualified engineer - and that doesn't require well-rounded knowledge (though it would sure help!). It just requires that you do better than the cut score (whatever it may be).
> 
> As an example that is counter to your recommendation, there are some problems that may appear on the exam which will require more than six minutes to solve (e.g. culverts, piping circuits, etc.). My advice is to pass over them and return only if there's sufficient time.


My point is this...you can't study with the goal of just getting 56 question correct because nobody knows what the exact cut score is. Even if you did know that you only needed to get 56 right, would you only study enough of the subject matter to answer 56 questions? What if one has tricky wording, or you forgot to study one aspect of a topic you thought you had nailed and it shows up on the test? Maybe not studying Biology for the extra 2% on the FE would be justified, but you better damn well know the other 98% of that test to give you the best possible chance to pass.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 29, 2008)

wilheldp_PE said:


> My point is this...you can't study with the goal of just getting 56 question correct because nobody knows what the exact cut score is. Even if you did know that you only needed to get 56 right, would you only study enough of the subject matter to answer 56 questions? What if one has tricky wording, or you forgot to study one aspect of a topic you thought you had nailed and it shows up on the test? Maybe not studying Biology for the extra 2% on the FE would be justified, but you better damn well know the other 98% of that test to give you the best possible chance to pass.


I can't tell if you're being serious or not... how could anyone construct a study program to target 56 exactly?

Regardless of claims to the counter, anecdotal evidence on prior exams points to a cut score of about 56 questions... give or take a few and it's almost certain this has been the case. I haven't seen enough information on the current exam diagnostics to have an opinion on this year's exam.

Given the cut score is about 56 correct questions, you could completely ignore (for example) structural material in your study plan and still easily pass the WR/Env depth if you mastered the rest.

No one will argue the "best possible chance" aspect, but I don't think it's reasonable to master 98% of the PE Civil material. And if you're using the CERM as a guide for the realm of knowledge, forget about it!


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## GT ME (Jul 29, 2008)

I do -- they don't call it Architorture for nothing.

Those courses you refer to are at the engineering technology level or engineering light -- not real engineering I assure you.

Architorture students would die in real engineering courses -- just like Industrial engineering students did when they competed with MEs in Thermodynamics.

I've seen it dozens of times in school and, more importantly, in the field.



StructuralPoke said:


> I don't think you understand what an AE really is. We aren't an architecture student that just took an extra class or two. Yes, it's true, I had to take some architectural design courses. I even had to take a couple of architectural history classes. That was in addition to my steel design classes, concrete design classes, timber, masonry, analysis classes (matrix methods), structural dynamics (in addition to basic staics and dynamics and all the other basic engineering courses), programming, foundations, soils... Oh yeah, acoustics and mechanical systems just to get a flavor for the other AE options. The only thing I didn't take was a AASHTO class. No clue about bridges going into the SE1.
> An AE's education is somewhat parallel to an architect's, that's true. I like to say we had to take a couple of their design classes (to realize it really is just a bunch of pretty lines) and they had to take our structural materials classes (to realize it isn't pushing a button). I would be scared shitless if the architects I went to school with were responsible for the structure (like they were no too long ago!). The were not good with the numbers and we weren't good with the pretty part of design. We helped them and they helped us -- it taught us about the relationship we will have/endure/suffer through once we get out of school.
> 
> My office is full of AEs and Civils. The AEs come out of school knowing the processes/steps/relationships required to put a building together as well as the numbers. They know the building codes and how to run the numbers and especially detailing. The civils here in the office really know the numbers behind the design, but they are unfamiliar with the building codes and detailing is especially foreign to them (to start with). My buddy is a CE and I'll be honest, he does know some of his materials stuff better than me and the other AEs, but it took a little while for him to get comfortable with the codes and detailing.
> ...


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## StructuralPoke (Jul 30, 2008)

GT ME said:


> I do -- they don't call it Architorture for nothing.
> Those courses you refer to are at the engineering technology level or engineering light -- not real engineering I assure you.
> 
> Architorture students would die in real engineering courses -- just like Industrial engineering students did when they competed with MEs in Thermodynamics.
> ...


Hunh? Yeah, I said I took the basic engineering courses that everyone took. I don't see what your point is and I really don't think you do either. You don't like architects -- you know what neither do I.

And thermo was easy. If that is what you are hanging your hat on...


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## StructuralPoke (Jul 30, 2008)

GT ME said:


> I do -- they don't call it Architorture for nothing.
> Those courses you refer to are at the engineering technology level or engineering light -- not real engineering I assure you.
> 
> Architorture students would die in real engineering courses -- just like Industrial engineering students did when they competed with MEs in Thermodynamics.
> ...


And yes, you are repeating exactly what I said -- the architecture students struggled with the engineering classes.


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## Road Guy (Jul 30, 2008)

GT_ME, either tone down your "asshole-ness" or hit the road.

Thanks


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 30, 2008)

Road Guy said:


> GT_ME, either tone down your "asshole-ness" or hit the road.
> Thanks



:appl:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 30, 2008)

I couldn't have said it better.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jul 30, 2008)

VTEnviro said:


> I couldn't have said it better.


I am a member of another message board and they only have one rule - "Don't be a jackass". that pretty much covers it.......


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 31, 2008)

^ That's pretty much a good way to go about life in general.


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## GT ME (Aug 8, 2008)

Of course I understand what AE is -- they're bascally coordinators &amp; facilitators.

As a state licensed HVACR contractor and, more importantly, the ONLY person in Florida licensed as both a state certified HVACR contractor and as a PE, AE is not engineering -- and I have 30 years of engineering experience to back it up.



StructuralPoke said:


> I don't think you understand what an AE really is. We aren't an architecture student that just took an extra class or two. Yes, it's true, I had to take some architectural design courses. I even had to take a couple of architectural history classes. That was in addition to my steel design classes, concrete design classes, timber, masonry, analysis classes (matrix methods), structural dynamics (in addition to basic staics and dynamics and all the other basic engineering courses), programming, foundations, soils... Oh yeah, acoustics and mechanical systems just to get a flavor for the other AE options. The only thing I didn't take was a AASHTO class. No clue about bridges going into the SE1.
> An AE's education is somewhat parallel to an architect's, that's true. I like to say we had to take a couple of their design classes (to realize it really is just a bunch of pretty lines) and they had to take our structural materials classes (to realize it isn't pushing a button). I would be scared shitless if the architects I went to school with were responsible for the structure (like they were no too long ago!). The were not good with the numbers and we weren't good with the pretty part of design. We helped them and they helped us -- it taught us about the relationship we will have/endure/suffer through once we get out of school.
> 
> My office is full of AEs and Civils. The AEs come out of school knowing the processes/steps/relationships required to put a building together as well as the numbers. They know the building codes and how to run the numbers and especially detailing. The civils here in the office really know the numbers behind the design, but they are unfamiliar with the building codes and detailing is especially foreign to them (to start with). My buddy is a CE and I'll be honest, he does know some of his materials stuff better than me and the other AEs, but it took a little while for him to get comfortable with the codes and detailing.
> ...


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## GT ME (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm just stating a point based on professional experience.

I don't get offended by dependant engineers using profanity.



Mike in Gastonia said:


> :appl:


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## GT ME (Aug 8, 2008)

That kind of talk could get you dispared or better yet, land you in a defamation lawsuit -- I'll have my lawyers contact the site administrator for your remark.



Road Guy said:


> GT_ME, either tone down your "asshole-ness" or hit the road.
> Thanks


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## Dark Knight (Aug 8, 2008)

GT ME said:


> That kind of talk could get you dispared or better yet, land you in a defamation lawsuit -- I'll have my lawyers contact the site administrator for your remark.


Hey Mr. Sensitive;

He did not say screw you, or fuss you, or call you names. He just asked you to tone down your arse-holeness. That is pretty much the "feel" of almost everybody reading your posts. You come here with a superiority complex and trashing engineers in an engineer's message board. What did you expect? An altar? Not going to happen.

Guess what dude. You are not the only GT engineer here. The only thing is that you are the only arrogant GT engineer here(actually...the only one from GT I know with that kind of stupid behavior and I know more than a few)

Don't be an idiot. That can be very hard to do for you since probably will have to reborn, but give it a try.

VT, I think the time is coming. You know what I mean.


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## TXengrChickPE (Aug 8, 2008)

Dark Knight said:


> VT, I think the time is coming. You know what I mean.


Do it!!!


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## Undertaker (Aug 8, 2008)

Dude cool down. You're making a fool of yourself.First of all you were the one that started to bring down the thread to the level it went. A member posted valid information and was answering questions and helping. Then there you came saying that AE wasn't engineering and even ridiculizing the field calling it Architorture. Dude, you can say whatever you want here and try to make people believe you have 30 or more years of experience. I say yeah right. You're a High School student using your Mom's computer. Go to hell dude.


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## GT ME (Aug 8, 2008)

Quick research on top engineering programs -- Architecture isn't considered engineering in any of them.

If you research the top engineering schools curriculums in Architecture ( MIT, Stanford, Illinois, &amp; Georgia Tech), you'll see that Architecture isn't considered engineering.

Moreover, if you look at their programs, Architorture students (this is what Arch students at my school called it) don't take real engineering courses at all; for example, the highest calc course they take is calc 2, &amp; Physics 2 (I'm sure it's not calc based Physics) -- this is essentially freshman based courses at real engineering curriculums -- didn't see either calc 3 &amp; 4 or differential equations, which alone are the mathematical foundations of engineering -- and you certaintly can't attempt Thermodynamics without differential equations.

Furthermore, of the schools that offer AE as a curriculum, none are in the top 50 in engineering rankings -- AE is basically a technology program.

Sorry, but based on my professional &amp; academic experience, Architects aren't real engineers -- they don't have the academic credentials to form a sold foundation in engineering that, as a result, surreptitiously undermines their creditability as true engineers.

:smileyballs:


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## wilheldp_PE (Aug 9, 2008)

GT ME said:


> If you research the top engineering schools curriculums in Architecture ( MIT, Stanford, Illinois, &amp; Georgia Tech), you'll see that Architecture isn't considered engineering.


You see, this is why you are stupid. Nobody is arguing that Architecture is engineering. There is a degree called Architectural Engineering that IS engineering. They take the core engineering classes (electrical, mechanical, math, physics, etc.), then they take specialized courses in some aspect of architectural engineering.

This is very similar to the difference between CS and Software Engineering at Rose-Hulman (which if you really want to whip it out and measure, is a MUCH better engineering school for undergrad degrees than any of the schools you listed). Computer Science students only took programming classes, and therefore, didn't get an engineering degree. However, the Software Engineering students took the core engineering classes, then specialized in computer science.



GT ME said:


> That kind of talk could get you dispared or better yet, land you in a defamation lawsuit -- I'll have my lawyers contact the site administrator for your remark.


1. What the hell does "dispared" mean.

2. Road Guy IS the site administrator, so you're barking up the wrong tree by threatening to use the admin against him.


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## Dark Knight (Aug 9, 2008)

This guy is full of it and himself. He keeps repeating the same thing again and again. Nothing different. Reminds me another idiot that used to post here.

I think it is VT's time


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## GT ME (Aug 9, 2008)

I don't appreciate words like idiot either.

My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum.

Of course my experience &amp; education are superior -- they're backed up by the top organizations in the world, as well as the top professors in academia.

If some of you think my statements are offensive -- good -- I'm basing my arguments on current engineering programs and my superior experience &amp; education.

More importantly, if you adress my facts on AE &amp; the current curriculums in the USA , you'll find that AE is not engineering.

That is what my argument is based on.



Dark Knight said:


> Hey Mr. Sensitive;
> He did not say screw you, or fuss you, or call you names. He just asked you to tone down your arse-holeness. That is pretty much the "feel" of almost everybody reading your posts. You come here with a superiority complex and trashing engineers in an engineer's message board. What did you expect? An altar? Not going to happen.
> 
> Guess what dude. You are not the only GT engineer here. The only thing is that you are the only arrogant GT engineer here(actually...the only one from GT I know with that kind of stupid behavior and I know more than a few)
> ...


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## wilheldp_PE (Aug 9, 2008)

GT ME said:


> More importantly, if you adress my facts on AE &amp; the current curriculums in the USA , you'll find that AE is not engineering.


Well, ABET, NCEES, the faculty of CalTech SLO, UC Boulder, Drexel, Illinois Tech, K-State, Kansas, Miami, Milwaukee S of E, Mizzou, Nebraska-Lincoln, NC Tech, OK State, Oklahoma, Penn State, TN State, UT Austin, and Wyoming universities, and nearly every member of this forum think your "facts" are wrong. And I will take the word of every single one of them over yours.


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## Flyer_PE (Aug 9, 2008)

GT ME said:


> That kind of talk could get you dispared or better yet, land you in a defamation lawsuit -- I'll have my lawyers contact the site administrator for your remark.






GT ME said:


> If some of you think my statements are offensive -- good -- I'm basing my arguments on current engineering programs and my superior experience &amp; education.


Maybe you should use some of your superior education and experience to:

1. Figure out how to spell disbarred.

2. Ask one of your lawyers just exactly how to go about disbarring an engineer. It's kind of hard to revoke a status that doesn't exist for us.

3. Ask one of your lawyers to give you a definition of defamation.

RG described a behavior you exhibit. He didn't directly call you anything. And even if he did call you a name, there is ample evidence in this thread alone that you are best described as the North end of a South bound horse.


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## Dark Knight (Aug 9, 2008)

GT ME said:


> I don't appreciate words like idiot either.
> My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum.
> 
> Of course my experience &amp; education are superior
> ...


And here we go. Keep repeating the same thing over and over. If that is not an idiot behavior you can take credit on redifining it.You know mate? A professional will respect the opinions of the others without trying to ridiculize a profession like AE. I remember your post about not being able to type after your accident. Was that worthy of a professional? The only certified HVAC/PE in the state of Florida?

I give a hoot if you appreciate words like idiot or not. Before me and many of the members here you are just that; an arrogant idiot. Not because we decided it but because you came behaving like one.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....there you go. It is not that hard....isn't it?

Oh yeah!!!I know what you are going to reply...."my superior blah blah blah blah" and "based on my superior blah blah blah"

Superior idiot-ness...and that is the bottom line. The day you apologize to the member who started the thread for you being an arse, that day the way you are seen here might change.


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## MEPE2B (Aug 12, 2008)

It is my measured opinion that you are an idiot, who is full of assholeness. I would guess that pretty much everyone else here thinks the same thing...probably most everyone who has come in contact with you. Do you think it's just a concidence that you cannot get along with anyone? And for someone who loves to crow about his superior credentials, you sure a dense mf. How many times must someone explain to you the differnce between architecture and architectural engineering. I'd guess you are deliberatley being obtuse just to show off your assholeness. You wanna file a law suit? Go ahead, because law is apparently another area in which you are painfully ignorant. AE - Architecture Engineering. That's ENGINEERING, you dense moron.



GT ME said:


> I don't appreciate words like idiot either.
> My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum.
> 
> Of course my experience &amp; education are superior -- they're backed up by the top organizations in the world, as well as the top professors in academia.
> ...


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## GT ME (Sep 4, 2008)

So how come almost all of those on your list don't offer AE?

As I stated earlier, the one's that offer AE are extremely low-rated engineering schools -- if rated at all.



wilheldp_PE said:


> Well, ABET, NCEES, the faculty of CalTech SLO, UC Boulder, Drexel, Illinois Tech, K-State, Kansas, Miami, Milwaukee S of E, Mizzou, Nebraska-Lincoln, NC Tech, OK State, Oklahoma, Penn State, TN State, UT Austin, and Wyoming universities, and nearly every member of this forum think your "facts" are wrong. And I will take the word of every single one of them over yours.


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## Twofrogs (Sep 5, 2008)

GT ME said:


> So how come almost all of those on your list don't offer AE?
> As I stated earlier, the one's that offer AE are extremely low-rated engineering schools -- if rated at all.


Pullease... I mean ....who really needs a lowly lame dumb engineering school right? I always thought that being a flailing virulent floor techie with an Associates in both Applied Science &amp; Physical Science is the ultimate way to go ...right!!! Your opinion has the weight of toilet paper....(seriously... is this a little high schooler writing all this stuff?). Architectural Engineers are ENGINEERS as determined by the States and accompanying accredited curriculums - enough said.


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## wilheldp_PE (Sep 5, 2008)

GT ME said:


> So how come almost all of those on your list don't offer AE?
> As I stated earlier, the one's that offer AE are extremely low-rated engineering schools -- if rated at all.


Uh...you just really displayed your stupidity. ALL of those programs listed have AE degrees that are ABET accredited. In fact, I got their names off of the ABET website. Thanks for playing!


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## StructuralPoke (Sep 5, 2008)

Let's leave the troll alone. He's not worth the time you spent replying. He just wants to ruffle some feathers.

GT calls for help






















all from http://userfriendly.org/


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## Ritchie503 (Sep 5, 2008)

StructuralPoke said:


> GT calls for help


Oh that is a good one.


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## dh003551 (Sep 8, 2008)

GT ME said:


> Quick research on top engineering programs -- Architecture isn't considered engineering in any of them.
> If you research the top engineering schools curriculums in Architecture ( MIT, Stanford, Illinois, &amp; Georgia Tech), you'll see that Architecture isn't considered engineering.
> 
> Moreover, if you look at their programs, Architorture students (this is what Arch students at my school called it) don't take real engineering courses at all; for example, the highest calc course they take is calc 2, &amp; Physics 2 (I'm sure it's not calc based Physics) -- this is essentially freshman based courses at real engineering curriculums -- didn't see either calc 3 &amp; 4 or differential equations, which alone are the mathematical foundations of engineering -- and you certaintly can't attempt Thermodynamics without differential equations.
> ...


Dude you sound really bitter. Maybe the information you have is outdated after 30 years (things have definately changed)... maybe just misinformation for present day. I finished up in 2004 with an AE degree at an accredited institution. Our econ class was in the IE dept. Our thermo and fluid dynamics was in the ME dept. Our circuits was in the EE dept. And no I did not drown...LOL. And yes, we were required to take cal 1, 2, 3, diff eq, and statistics. Our physics courses were calculus based for engineers. AE is not a technology program at all. There are some schools that that have AE tech programs, but there is a difference. There are plenty of people that go into it thinking that and end up dropping out to do something different that doesn't involve as much. Currently, there are 17 accredited schools for AE. You can't get that accredidation unless they teach enough info for you to pass the FE exam and with practice in the field also the PE. That means all classes i stated plus statics, dynamics, strength of materials, materials science, and then some. As far as the AE courses (and i can only speak for my institution), they geared the entire program for two things: to pass any professional exam, and to practice in the field. Every strucutral class (steel design, strucutural analysis, concrete and masonry, strucural analysis and lab) should fully prepare you for the AEPE. That also goes for all the in-depth electrical, mechanical and construction management courses. However, they do tell you that every state has different requirements for engineers to stamp drawings and direct you to exactly what you need to do.

Yeah, in the field someone who does hvac and plumbing is considered a mechanical engineer and i found that a little odd because we don't study gas turbines, machines, and engines. Lighting/electricals are electrical engineers... but there's plenty in electrical engineering that is not included in AE. But for MEP engineers, AE is MORE than sufficient. In fact, it better prepares you to work with everyone (that's what happens in the real world).

Everyone has to contact their local engineering board to find out what they accept as far as what you are allowed to stamp. And if anyone has a question about you stamping something, they most likely will have you prove that you are qualified to stamp it and you are practicing in YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE (thats what Maryland DLLR told me... the only place it's different is DC). In MD, every stamp says "PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER." It is up to the engineer to make sure that they are practicing in their area of expertise... completely and ethics call.

Be blessed!

:laugh:


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## Road Guy (Sep 10, 2008)

GT ME said:


> I don't appreciate words like idiot either.
> My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum.
> 
> Of course my experience &amp; education are superior -- they're backed up by the top organizations in the world, as well as the top professors in academia.
> ...



idiot.......


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## FLBuff PE (Sep 10, 2008)

GT ME said:


> I don't appreciate words like idiot either.
> My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum.
> 
> Of course my experience &amp; education are superior -- they're backed up by the top organizations in the world, as well as the top professors in academia.
> ...



ass-holeness...


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## DVINNY (Sep 12, 2008)

Should I move this thread to the Hall of Fame now?


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## Road Guy (Sep 12, 2008)

defin. HOF material


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## DVINNY (Sep 17, 2008)

He's already been hit with the BAN HAMMER Sapper.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Sep 18, 2008)

Damn I missed this one too. I'm slipping.


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## FLBuff PE (Sep 18, 2008)

SapperPE said:


> how did I miss this. GT, you are a certified idiot, and your behavior is ass-holish, and it won't be tolerated. Feel free to send me a PM to reprimand myself about my disparaging comments, I'll fuckin laugh my ass off at such foolheartiness.
> Dumbass.


To quote a qualified engineer,

"I don't appreciate words like idiot either.

My statements are based on facts not opinions -- Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the right to use disparaging words like "idiot" "ass-holeness" in a professional forum."

I think you need to rerimand yourself for you disparaging comments.

Thought you could use a good laugh, Sapper.


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## KSU-ARE (Jan 5, 2009)

I really can't believe how this thread got hijacked. It is really a shame, people look for valid advice and help studding, and instead they have to read this random blabber by people like GT.


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## Dleg (Jan 5, 2009)

That's why this thread is in the hall of fame. A famous moment by an (in) famous poster, who is no longer with us.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 6, 2009)

KSU-ARE said:


> It is really a shame, people look for valid advice and help studding, and instead they have to read this random blabber by people like GT.


If you need help studding, this isn't the thread you're looking for.


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## FLBuff PE (Jan 6, 2009)

Dleg said:


> That's why this thread is in the hall of fame. A famous moment by an (in) famous poser, who is no longer with us.


Fixed it for you.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 8, 2009)

KSU-ARE said:


> I really can't believe how this thread got hijacked. It is really a shame, people look for valid advice and help studding, and instead they have to read this random blabber by people like GT.


It's not really hijacked until there's talk of scotch ramen and planes on a conveyor belt.


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## Capt Worley PE (Jan 8, 2009)

Or cinnamon rings.


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## LEEDengineer (Dec 28, 2009)

Ritchie503 said:


> kswildcats said:
> 
> 
> > I just took the Mechanical PE last October and did not pass. Now I am trying to decide which exam to take come this April. I practice MEP engineering on a daily basis, but I have not touched Structural since school approx 5 years ago. I have all the study material for the ME (obviously it did not help), but I cannot find a whole lot for the Arch E. I have heard the Arch E test is not easy and wonder if I would be better off taking the ME test again. Anyone have any thoughts or have ever talked to someone that has taken both tests? Thanks
> ...


Its been a while since the post and the test has changed a little but I truly appreciate the info you shared. I am studying for the AE exam, but thinking I may take it in 2011, giving me a little over a year to prepare. I have a BS and an MS both in Architectural Engineering and work as a Mechanical Engineer. I am looking for more resources now and hope to find a (local or internet based) study partner/group. Would even like to work with people who are studying for the 2010, as I am already studying. I joined this forum in hopes of getting more info.


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## Atlasflasher (Feb 10, 2012)

I have worked for Architects, Engineers and Contractors. I have been fortunate to have worked with extremely intelligent people (except for one). All of whom I would consider brilliant (except for one complete idiot). One of my former employers had an engineering license and an architect's licence. He also to become a land developer of some very large construction projects. Essentially he became a millionaire because he could do it all!


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## Master slacker (Feb 10, 2012)

^^^ Most useful post EVAR!


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## FLBuff PE (Feb 10, 2012)

But was that enough fatty money to buy an airplane? And if it was, did it take off on a conveyor belt?


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## csb (Feb 13, 2012)

Damnit...I graduated from a low-ranking engineering school. My stamp should have some kind of asterisk on the end.


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## Dleg (Feb 19, 2012)

Did you graduate from DeVry, too? :wub:


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## cdcengineer (Apr 18, 2012)

ITT Tech - Wooot


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 18, 2012)

Guy #1: "My son just got into DeVry"

Guy #2: "How'd he do that, open the door?"


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## Hugh Jass (Jan 25, 2017)

the main thing i noticed here is that the guy who did not insult anyone directly was banned while the ones doing the repeated name calling were free to continue

this makes me think of the black woman who was arrested when she called the cops because her neighbor wringed her son's neck. 

the cop arrested her for being loud but not the neighbor for assaulting her son. seems right


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## Hugh Jass (Jan 25, 2017)

got directed her from an architect topic


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## Hugh Jass (Jan 25, 2017)

but GT had it backwards

an architectural engineering isn't an architect. In fact, itd be illegal to call yourself an architect or offer architectural services, per the florida statutes. (also recieved confirmiation of this from the board of engineers)


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## matt267 PE (Jan 25, 2017)

Nice bump of an old thread.


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## Hugh Jass (Jan 26, 2017)

40k posts

congrats


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## matt267 PE (Jan 26, 2017)

Hugh Jass said:


> 40k posts
> 
> congrats


Yeah, I need a new hobby.


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## Phatso (Apr 18, 2017)

matt267 PE said:


> Yeah, I need a new hobby.


Need a life off the computer, actually. 40k? Have you no shame?

I got my PE license when I was 24, btw. In case you wanted to know how superior I am to you


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## Ramnares P.E. (Apr 18, 2017)

Phatso said:


> Need a life off the computer, actually. 40k? Have you no shame?
> 
> *I got my PE license when I was 24, btw. In case you wanted to know how superior I am to you*


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## gpoli111 (Apr 18, 2017)

Phatso said:


> Need a life off the computer, actually. 40k? Have you no shame?
> 
> I got my PE license when I was 24, btw. In case you wanted to know how superior I am to you


What does the age in which you pass this test mean anything about superiority? Why are all of your posts so condescending? Are you butthurt about something you're not telling us?


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## Phatso86 (Apr 18, 2017)

All your base belong to us


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## gpoli111 (Apr 18, 2017)

Phatso86 said:


> All your base belong to us


Excuse me?


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## Ramnares P.E. (Apr 18, 2017)

Phatso86 said:


> All your base belong to us


Calm down Meghan Trainor.


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## matt267 PE (Apr 18, 2017)

Phatso said:


> Need a life off the computer, actually. 40k? Have you no shame?
> 
> I got my PE license when I was 24, btw. In case you wanted to know how superior I am to you










Phatso86 said:


> All your base belong to us


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## shannon (Nov 14, 2021)

Hello,
I want to take AE exam, and I have a bachelor degree in architectural engineering. Should I first take FE test or I can directly take AE exam to get my PE?


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## shannon (Nov 15, 2021)

Hello everyone,
I have a question about FE exam. What type of FE exam I have to take before taking my PE for Architectural Engineering exam? Like I have to take FE civil or FE mechanical or FE other disciplines? Which type of FE exam I have to take?


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