# Time to ORGANIZE!



## NCcarguy (Apr 8, 2008)

For most of you, I would say that you're probably at the point that you're not going to need to LEARN anything more to take this test. I would suggest to you all that you spend at least ONE FULL day ORGANIZING your materials.

I think that one of the things that helped me the most was not spending a lot of time LOOKING for things. I spent a lot of time really cleaning up my materials, and putting them in an order that made sense. I added CLEAR notes where I wanted to make sure I could find them.

I also created a few "CHEAT" sheets that I KNEW I was going to need, for example.....when you're working MANY hydro problems, one thing you will need to know is the area of a certain pipe.....well I calculated everything from a 1/2" pipe to a 54" pipe, then added the formula to that sheet, and placed it in front of the notebook.

ANYTHING like that will really come in handy.

Remember, this is an open book test, if you had a week to take it, all of you would pass, that means that what seperates the winners from the losers is the ability to quickly find the answer.

Good luck!


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 9, 2008)

Speed really is the key. Anything you can do to speed up finding things will work to your advantage.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 9, 2008)

I totally agree! I put key tables, equations, facts, etc. in a few condensed pages for each topic in binders. I'd rather look for something in my 5 pages on activated sludge than dig through 3 chapters of a textbook looking for a needle in a hay stack.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Completely agree - now *IS* the time for last minute housekeeping an organization!

JR


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## Shaggy (Apr 10, 2008)

Just to refresh the thread, here is a link to my suggested tabbing method:

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=3714


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## PErimeter (Apr 10, 2008)

Shaggy said:


> Just to refresh the thread, here is a link to my suggested tabbing method:http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=3714


Thanks, Shaggy! You inspired me, helped me, and hopefully pushed me over that cut score! Here are some pics of my insane tabbing techniques:


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## akandt (Oct 18, 2008)

Are we allowed to use Post-It type notes? I thought it said those were not allowed b/c they're considered 'loose paper'. All of these pictures seem to have post it note-type tabs.


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## Casey (Oct 18, 2008)

Those kind of post-it note tabs are allowed. If you look at your admission letter you will find a paragraph in there saying that post-it note tabs are allowed.

Well, at least my letter says that.


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## k2keylargo (Oct 18, 2008)

I just wrote to ELSES and asked that very question - post it *TABS* are allowed, not post it NOTES. ii have some that are Post-it brand, called Durable Filing Tabs - in a pack of 24 2in x 1.5in. - I cut them in half to make smaller tabs, works well. Got pretty colors with a big white space to write in.

The following are excerpts from my emails with ELSES - gotta read from the bottom up....

REPLY:

As long as they are specifically made for tabbing.

******************

Cindy Flower

ELSES Exam Coordinator

877-536-7729

[email protected]

I WROTE:

The Post it tabs are the ones that are removable? I have some in different colors - thin plastic ones?

REPLY:

Regular post it notes are not acceptable for marking pages, we recommend using the post it tabs that are specifically made for tabs.

******************

Cindy Flower

ELSES Exam Coordinator

877-536-7729

[email protected]

I WROTE:

Can I use post-it notes for tabs? I have some borrowed books that I want to tab, and I do not want to put permanent adhesive on these. I understand that no tabs can be removed or added during the exam.

]


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## GTEngineer (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for sharing the clarification!


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## kschwa (Oct 19, 2008)

just an fyi, it's been my understanding that post it tabs are not allowed everywhere, it's a decision each individual board makes for itself, so you need to check with your state board. ELSES simply administers the test and sometimes individual states have their own rules that may or may not be the default for ELSES. for example, in my state, the board does state that you must use permanent tabs, not post its. however, in the two times i took it, i did see several people with the post it types that were not thrown out. but with all the money and time you have put into preparing, do you really want to risk it??? i have also read either on this board or the "other" board that some states allow three ring binders and some only allow "permanently bound" material. I think elses only administers to roughly 2/3 rds of the states, so maybe that explains some of it, but anyway, ask you state board.


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## P.E. Luchion (Oct 19, 2008)

Casey said:


> Those kind of post-it note tabs are allowed. If you look at your admission letter you will find a paragraph in there saying that post-it note tabs are allowed.
> Well, at least my letter says that.


And I quote :

Examinees may tab reference books prior to the examination with the Post-it type notes and flags, but pads of Post-it notes and flags are not permitted in the examination room.

The letter I received with my ticket.


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## kschwa (Oct 19, 2008)

kschwa said:


> just an fyi, it's been my understanding that post it tabs are not allowed everywhere, it's a decision each individual board makes for itself, so you need to check with your state board. ELSES simply administers the test and sometimes individual states have their own rules that may or may not be the default for ELSES. for example, in my state, the board does state that you must use permanent tabs, not post its. however, in the two times i took it, i did see several people with the post it types that were not thrown out. but with all the money and time you have put into preparing, do you really want to risk it??? i have also read either on this board or the "other" board that some states allow three ring binders and some only allow "permanently bound" material. I think elses only administers to roughly 2/3 rds of the states, so maybe that explains some of it, but anyway, ask you state board.


as a side note, at least for me, the permanent tabs made better sturdier "handles" for getting to pages. after having used them, i do believe it's a bit faster. and, it helped me to minimize my tabbing which come exam day is important. too many tabs almost makes the tabs useless. really, the cerm index is awesome, print it seperately and bind it and use it......just my 2 cents. good luck to all who are taking the PE this go round...


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## kschwa (Oct 19, 2008)

Luchion said:


> And I quote :Examinees may tab reference books prior to the examination with the Post-it type notes and flags, but pads of Post-it notes and flags are not permitted in the examination room.
> 
> The letter I received with my ticket.


if it was in your letter than you are golden, i was simply trying to point out that they are not allowed in all states. my response was geared more towards people simply reading the posts, just wanted to alert them to that. sorry for any confusion on my part.


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## P.E. Luchion (Oct 19, 2008)

kschwa said:


> if it was in your letter than you are golden, i was simply trying to point out that they are not allowed in all states. my response was geared more towards people simply reading the posts, just wanted to alert them to that. sorry for any confusion on my part.


No no no problem, I just wanted to let people know in general what was on the letter. Because I had assumed IT was ok, because I hadn't read it yet.

At the same time it does suck for different state boards to have different rules.

By the way the NCEES Candidate agreement that came along with the ticket also, states Ring Binders, spiral binders, plastic snap binders, brads, and screw posts are acceptable fasteners.

SO MY QUESTION IS, IF THIS IS ON THE NCEES CANDIDATE AGREEMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO AFFIRM TO AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR EXAM, HOW COME SOME STATES DONT ALLOW YOU TO BRING IN BINDERS?????


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## snickerd3 (Oct 19, 2008)

Luchion said:


> SO MY QUESTION IS, IF THIS IS ON THE NCEES CANDIDATE AGREEMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO AFFIRM TO AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR EXAM, HOW COME SOME STATES DONT ALLOW YOU TO BRING IN BINDERS?????


Because the States get the final decisions in everything related to the exam. NCEES makes recommendations that most of the states follow, but they don't have the unilateral power.


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## engineergurl (Oct 19, 2008)

I know that I am not at the point in time where I am doing the last minute organizing but.... to address the binder issue.

At most craft stores that carry scrapbooking items, they have various kinds of scrapbooks and page inserts that you can put together yourself. Some pages you insert your item at the top of a plastic sheet cover, others you need to punch holes and insert into the book. I would say almost all of these books are binded by the screw type posts and you can adjust the thickness by purchasing extenders.

Of course, there is always kinkos!

With as much stress as there is associated with taking the test, it's understandable to fret over the small stuff that may have a huge impact. The best idea is to find out the answers to your questions ahead of time and prepare based on the answers you get. (and if you are ocd like I am, print out the answers and stick them in a folder just in case.)


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## kschwa (Oct 20, 2008)

Luchion said:


> No no no problem, I just wanted to let people know in general what was on the letter. Because I had assumed IT was ok, because I hadn't read it yet.
> At the same time it does suck for different state boards to have different rules.
> 
> By the way the NCEES Candidate agreement that came along with the ticket also, states Ring Binders, spiral binders, plastic snap binders, brads, and screw posts are acceptable fasteners.
> ...


yeah, snikerd3 pretty much hit the nail on the head. some state boards take it upon themselves to be extra anal retentive............i do think it's insane that you can have different rules in different states, but at the same time, if you look at the entire application process and what you have to do to sit for the exam, you'd be suprised at how much requirements can vary from state to state. guess it all goes back to the "state's rights" issue. and, some people get nice big tables to spread out on and some get those little half desks in the middle of a stinky arena used the night before for rodeo..... actually read one post either on this board or the "other" board where someone had the experience where the proctors tried to take all the three ringed binders away, but there was a mini uprising and they decided to let them be used.......don't remember what state though.

oh, and here's one for reciprocity, if you would not have qualified to sit for the exam in a different state, they will not recognize your PE, even if you have passed. for example, out here in wyoming, if you fail to pass the exam in three tries, you have to take 12 credit hours of upper division or masters level abet accredited engineering courses in your field to even sit for it again. if you go ahead and go down to colorado and take it a fourth time without satisfying the additional education requirements, your PE will not be recognized here.

I may be mistaken, but i thought i ran across one state, delaware or new hampshire............one of those states in that area, where if you didn't pass it by the second attempt you would never be granted a stamp in that state. again, not positive, just think i remember reading that somewhere. anyway, it's crazy how things vary, i really think it should be a national stamp, but doctors, lawyers, and everyone else suffer the same problems. just seems kind of stupid to me, when we all take a nationalized test with a recomended cut score......oh that's another one, a state is not obligated to honor the cut score, they could decide it needs to be higher if they wanted............although i don't think any of them go that far. but, if they did, would we really know?


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## kschwa (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh well, food for thought once you reach about 545 pm next friday. Just being done with it is a huge relief. You at least get your life back for a few months. Good luck to all of you taking it. To those who pass congratulations, to those who need to take it again, keep at it..................no matter what you go through to prepare, it's worth it when you finally come out the other end.

and, well, i guess i took this thread off topic, back on topic, yeah, spend most of this week organizing your stuff, making sure you've got everything covered, maybe study a little bit, but at this point you aren't going to learn too much more, so the time really is better spent organizing.


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