# Failing Scores



## maddukes

I got a 122/240 which is 51%, and STILL failed. I am very frustrated considering that most info says that 50% is typical pass/fail score. Can anyone let me know if they got a higher score and FAILED? Thx, Jason


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## RIP - VTEnviro

Sorry to hear you failed, didn't realize FE results were out already.


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## STEEL MAN

maddukes said:


> I got a 122/240 which is 51%, and STILL failed. I am very frustrated considering that most info says that 50% is typical pass/fail score. Can anyone let me know if they got a higher score and FAILED? Thx, Jason



Cut score always a mystery for us Engineers, NCEES sets that. My suggestion forget your score focus on coming back, revise your strategy and core subjects, do more problems.

Dont give up.

Good luck on your next attempt.


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## stlaggies

Not for this specific round of testing but I've heard of scores as high as 61 still count as failing.


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## bcolwell3

I got a 63 and still failed! This is my 2nd failing score


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## TeeOne

I was told that 69% was failing, but I really don't know...It may vary state to state...I passed so they didn't tell me the scores (just pass/fail).


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## Kephart P.E.

I only had to take it once, thank God, but a friend took it at the same time told me he failed with a 65% ---so it varies.


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## adamgram

TeeOne said:


> I was told that 69% was failing, but I really don't know...It may vary state to state...I passed so they didn't tell me the scores (just pass/fail).


70 is the minimum score so 69 would be failing but that isn't a raw percentage. NCEES keeps it a secret how the calculations work that take you from your raw score (right answers / number of questions) to the weighted score (on which 70 is the minimum passing score)


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## Simson

For the benefit of others could you'll share your fail results here of 2011 April Exams. I am still awaiting my results from the board. As NCEES will not provide it directly.

Here's what you provide. 1. M (Morning):xx ; 2. A (Afternoon): xx : 3. Discipline: Elect, Mech, Other, etc.

Percentage would be (M+2A)/240 X 100.

This could predict the failure line for each discipline (will be an estimate at least; better than nothing) for current and future students. Will give some clue on subject to choose for the next exam and how much to prepare too.

Thanks


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## maddukes

1. M: 58

2. A: 32

3. Other Discipline

Percentage: 51% - Failed.



Simson said:


> For the benefit of others could you'll share your fail results here of 2011 April Exams. I am still awaiting my results from the board. As NCEES will not provide it directly.
> Here's what you provide. 1. M (Morning):xx ; 2. A (Afternoon): xx : 3. Discipline: Elect, Mech, Other, etc.
> 
> Percentage would be (M+2A)/240 X 100.
> 
> This could predict the failure line for each discipline (will be an estimate at least; better than nothing) for current and future students. Will give some clue on subject to choose for the next exam and how much to prepare too.
> 
> Thanks


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## EE_Mike

The NCEES prepares a pretty detailed diagnostic report for those who do not pass the exam. It can be used to pinpoint weak areas so you can focus on them the next time around. Sample Diagnostic Report

Unfortunately, worrying about what the minimum passing score is will not help you pass the exam. The best thing you can do in this situation is to browse around these forums to become more familiar with the resources available. I had some friends who took the FE exam with me a few years back and did not pass. They were so concerned with where the cutoff was and how close they were. Maybe it was a pride thing, I don't know. I advised them to not obsess over that so much because exam difficulties change and cutoffs change. Some people fall into a trap where they think that since they were so close to the cutoff, they only need to study "a little bit more" to pass the next go round. This usually doesn't work out.

Best of luck on your next exam. I have found some good discussions on study materials in these forums. Make sure you take a look.


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## maddukes

FE Mike,

While I would in other situations agree with you, my situation is probably a little unique. I am married with 3 young kids, only have a MS in Civil Engineering with no BS in Civl (other non-technical degree). I need to get the FE so that I can pursue other job opportunities as well as of course eventually try to take the PE. This was the 2nd time taking the test and I know that not having a BS in Civil may have been the problem, but I feel like I am smart enough to study and pass w/o the degree. However, I have to come to a point where I decide if I really need to get that degree, which takes a lot more time (and money) to get than just studying for the FE. Going badk to get the degree is much more of a committment where I already don't have much free time (work full time as well). So really I do want to know how close I am because if I am VERY close, then I will continue to try to take the FE w/o getting the degree first. But if I am REALLY off then I may have to bite the bullet and go for the degree first. I have heard plenty of people who have passed the FE w/o out an undergrad degree in Engineering so I know its feasible. I appreciate the advice, and in other situations (if I were fresh out of school with an Eng. degree) then I would say to forget how "close" I was and just study and take it again, but I have a little bit of a different situation to deal with.

Thx,

Jason



EE_Mike said:


> The NCEES prepares a pretty detailed diagnostic report for those who do not pass the exam. It can be used to pinpoint weak areas so you can focus on them the next time around. Sample Diagnostic Report
> Unfortunately, worrying about what the minimum passing score is will not help you pass the exam. The best thing you can do in this situation is to browse around these forums to become more familiar with the resources available. I had some friends who took the FE exam with me a few years back and did not pass. They were so concerned with where the cutoff was and how close they were. Maybe it was a pride thing, I don't know. I advised them to not obsess over that so much because exam difficulties change and cutoffs change. Some people fall into a trap where they think that since they were so close to the cutoff, they only need to study "a little bit more" to pass the next go round. This usually doesn't work out.
> 
> Best of luck on your next exam. I have found some good discussions on study materials in these forums. Make sure you take a look.


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## STEEL MAN

maddukes said:


> FE Mike,While I would in other situations agree with you, my situation is probably a little unique. I am married with 3 young kids, only have a MS in Civil Engineering with no BS in Civl (other non-technical degree). I need to get the FE so that I can pursue other job opportunities as well as of course eventually try to take the PE. This was the 2nd time taking the test and I know that not having a BS in Civil may have been the problem, but I feel like I am smart enough to study and pass w/o the degree. However, I have to come to a point where I decide if I really need to get that degree, which takes a lot more time (and money) to get than just studying for the FE. Going badk to get the degree is much more of a committment where I already don't have much free time (work full time as well). So really I do want to know how close I am because if I am VERY close, then I will continue to try to take the FE w/o getting the degree first. But if I am REALLY off then I may have to bite the bullet and go for the degree first. I have heard plenty of people who have passed the FE w/o out an undergrad degree in Engineering so I know its feasible. I appreciate the advice, and in other situations (if I were fresh out of school with an Eng. degree) then I would say to forget how "close" I was and just study and take it again, but I have a little bit of a different situation to deal with.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> EE_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> The NCEES prepares a pretty detailed diagnostic report for those who do not pass the exam. It can be used to pinpoint weak areas so you can focus on them the next time around. Sample Diagnostic Report
> Unfortunately, worrying about what the minimum passing score is will not help you pass the exam. The best thing you can do in this situation is to browse around these forums to become more familiar with the resources available. I had some friends who took the FE exam with me a few years back and did not pass. They were so concerned with where the cutoff was and how close they were. Maybe it was a pride thing, I don't know. I advised them to not obsess over that so much because exam difficulties change and cutoffs change. Some people fall into a trap where they think that since they were so close to the cutoff, they only need to study "a little bit more" to pass the next go round. This usually doesn't work out.
> 
> Best of luck on your next exam. I have found some good discussions on study materials in these forums. Make sure you take a look.
Click to expand...


getting a degree in civil definitely takes time and money but worth it, if you wanted to by pass this, you might assess your capabilities and knowledge on the whole content of FE from AM to Civil PM, if you are sure you can do it by merely studying by yourself then go for it but I doubt, even if you have an MS in Civil Engineering, me too I have an MS in Civil but MS degree courses are outlined in a way it is more focus on where you specialize and totally way off from BS Civil which is broad, and MS is advanced compare to BS and totally different. I also suggest you go to a review class it might work for you. My thinking those people that might pass FE are a few, if youre are smart and lucky enough not a lot of people are in this pool.

Good luck.


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## willsee

Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you

Post your diagnostic report.


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## dneva

STEEL MAN said:


> maddukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> FE Mike,While I would in other situations agree with you, my situation is probably a little unique. I am married with 3 young kids, only have a MS in Civil Engineering with no BS in Civl (other non-technical degree). I need to get the FE so that I can pursue other job opportunities as well as of course eventually try to take the PE. This was the 2nd time taking the test and I know that not having a BS in Civil may have been the problem, but I feel like I am smart enough to study and pass w/o the degree. However, I have to come to a point where I decide if I really need to get that degree, which takes a lot more time (and money) to get than just studying for the FE. Going badk to get the degree is much more of a committment where I already don't have much free time (work full time as well). So really I do want to know how close I am because if I am VERY close, then I will continue to try to take the FE w/o getting the degree first. But if I am REALLY off then I may have to bite the bullet and go for the degree first. I have heard plenty of people who have passed the FE w/o out an undergrad degree in Engineering so I know its feasible. I appreciate the advice, and in other situations (if I were fresh out of school with an Eng. degree) then I would say to forget how "close" I was and just study and take it again, but I have a little bit of a different situation to deal with.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> EE_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> The NCEES prepares a pretty detailed diagnostic report for those who do not pass the exam. It can be used to pinpoint weak areas so you can focus on them the next time around. Sample Diagnostic Report
> Unfortunately, worrying about what the minimum passing score is will not help you pass the exam. The best thing you can do in this situation is to browse around these forums to become more familiar with the resources available. I had some friends who took the FE exam with me a few years back and did not pass. They were so concerned with where the cutoff was and how close they were. Maybe it was a pride thing, I don't know. I advised them to not obsess over that so much because exam difficulties change and cutoffs change. Some people fall into a trap where they think that since they were so close to the cutoff, they only need to study "a little bit more" to pass the next go round. This usually doesn't work out.
> 
> Best of luck on your next exam. I have found some good discussions on study materials in these forums. Make sure you take a look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> getting a degree in civil definitely takes time and money but worth it, if you wanted to by pass this, you might assess your capabilities and knowledge on the whole content of FE from AM to Civil PM, if you are sure you can do it by merely studying by yourself then go for it but I doubt, even if you have an MS in Civil Engineering, me too I have an MS in Civil but MS degree courses are outlined in a way it is more focus on where you specialize and totally way off from BS Civil which is broad, and MS is advanced compare to BS and totally different. I also suggest you go to a review class it might work for you. My thinking those people that might pass FE are a few, if youre are smart and lucky enough not a lot of people are in this pool.
> 
> Good luck.
Click to expand...


There are quite a few of us in Jason's shoes. I for one did pass the FE and PE Civil with my BS being in Mechanical Engineering. I always was aware of the cut score but no one can pin point it exactly. But one can make statistically calculations to determine the cut score. If one does not know the cut score how would you know if you are capable of passing the exam. Let's say the cutscore fell at 80%, this not being the interpreted scaled score but the actual percentage of answers correct, and one received 40% in the exam with months of studying, then off to school one goes. But if your score was 71% correct, then maybe you do not need to take a full load of classes especially with three kids at home. Just my two cents.


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## DVINNY

dneva said:


> I for one did pass the FE and PE Civil with my BS being in Mechanical Engineering.



Same here.

BS in Mechanical.

FE in general

PE in Civil / Transpo


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## maddukes

willsee said:


> Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you
> Post your diagnostic report.


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## STEEL MAN

maddukes said:


> willsee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you
> Post your diagnostic report.
Click to expand...

it seems youre weak in chem, mechanics in general, elect, thermo, fluids and mat prop. You need to understand the theory before you apply these in varied problems, without strong background on theory there is no way you can handle these problems.


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## maddukes

My issue was that for most of those topics I had to guess because I ran out of time. If I actually had time to read those problems, I would have fared much better. A lot of my problem at least in the AM portion is that I ran out of time. I definitely admit that I am not as strong in Thermo or Mat Prop as I am in say, Math, Econ, and Statistics, but I can solve most of the problems when I do practice but it just takes a little longer.



STEEL MAN said:


> maddukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> willsee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you
> Post your diagnostic report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it seems youre weak in chem, mechanics in general, elect, thermo, fluids and mat prop. You need to understand the theory before you apply these in varied problems, without strong background on theory there is no way you can handle these problems.
Click to expand...


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## binh1016

It's called a test for a reason. If everyone had a week to finish the exam then.life would just be peachy.

But reality is you have to know a subject well enough to be able to know where to look in the equations book or at least make an educated guess.



maddukes said:


> My issue was that for most of those topics I had to guess because I ran out of time. If I actually had time to read those problems, I would have fared much better. A lot of my problem at least in the AM portion is that I ran out of time. I definitely admit that I am not as strong in Thermo or Mat Prop as I am in say, Math, Econ, and Statistics, but I can solve most of the problems when I do practice but it just takes a little longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STEEL MAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maddukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> willsee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you
> Post your diagnostic report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it seems youre weak in chem, mechanics in general, elect, thermo, fluids and mat prop. You need to understand the theory before you apply these in varied problems, without strong background on theory there is no way you can handle these problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Exception Collection

maddukes said:


> My issue was that for most of those topics I had to guess because I ran out of time. If I actually had time to read those problems, I would have fared much better. A lot of my problem at least in the AM portion is that I ran out of time. I definitely admit that I am not as strong in Thermo or Mat Prop as I am in say, Math, Econ, and Statistics, but I can solve most of the problems when I do practice but it just takes a little longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STEEL MAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maddukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> willsee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worrying about the score you need to pass won't help you
> Post your diagnostic report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it seems youre weak in chem, mechanics in general, elect, thermo, fluids and mat prop. You need to understand the theory before you apply these in varied problems, without strong background on theory there is no way you can handle these problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

If you're running out of time, you need to understand the concepts and underlying theories better. You should have time to read and answer every question, and have time to do at least a quick doublecheck of them. I would suggest that you take a review course at the very least, and look seriously at the idea of completing a BS or at least the courses about the issues for the various sections.

How many hours were you putting into studying per week, when you were studying? How many practice exams did you take?


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## Exception Collection

ngnrd said:


> OK. Don't be offended. This critique may sound a little rough, but it's how I see the situation.
> If you break it down, it's pretty obvious that you didn't do your undergrad in engineering.
> 
> GENERAL subjects (math, stats, econ, chem, bio, ethics, computers): you correctly answered 61 of 84 for 73%. Not outstanding, but respectable. And definitely worth a passing grade.
> 
> ENGINEERING specific subjects (mechanics, materials, fluids, electrical, thermo): you correctly answered 29 of 96 for 30%. This shows a definite lack of understanding of fundamental engineering principles. Or, in the soft spoken heavily Asian accented words of the best professor I ever had, "Even if you do math all right... you get problem wrong... because, you don't understand _concept_."
> 
> I don't care how good you are at math. This is a timed test. And it is absolutely unforgiving to those that use extra time struggling to understand the problems because don't thoroughly understand the concepts. If you can convince yourself that a self-guided study regimen will give you the ability to look at any problem and understand what it's asking, what given information is extraneous, and what equations are necessary to solve it... all within the first read, and without flinching, then by all means skip the degree, get your nose to the grindstone, and start studying.
> 
> But, if you have _any_ doubt, you probably would be better off starting that degree program now. There's a reason it typically takes a minimum of four years of studying their asses off for most people to get a BS in engineering. And it's not because they just enjoy spending all their free time on campus. There's a _lot_ of material covered in those four years; most of it building on concepts learned in previous classes. And remember, all the questions on the FE exam come from _somewhere_ in that material. That's just simply way too much material to "cram" before the exam.
> 
> But only you know your abilities and your level of determination. Ultimately, it's a judgement call you'll have to make yourself.


I would have to agree with this in all particulars.


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## maddukes

I am not offended at all at the critique. I pretty much knew that deep down. My personal situation is so unique that I was just hoping to be able to work around having to get the degree. I am in my mid-30s with an established family. Working full time is tough with kids to go to school (it took me 4 years to get my Master's doing 1 class a semester). Anyways, you are right, it comes down to a serious decision that I have to make. The frustrating thing is that I know people who didn't have Thermo or Fluids or Electric circuits in their undergrad engineering degree and STILL passed the Other Disciplines test (the one I took). Maybe they just did slightly better in Mechanics than I did and that was what helped them over the hump. So if 73% on the General subjects isn't outstanding in your opinion, what would be? 90%? I agree that 30% in the Engineering subjects is not good, and needs improvement but I wonder if I take 1 or 2 classes in those subjects (Mechanics, Fluids, or circuits for example) would that probably be enough to get over the hump. I can always go back to school once my kids are old and out of school to get the degree, but I need to pass the FE/PE in the near term and can't really get a 4-year degree at this point.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, it was very much appreciated.



Karen S. P.E. said:


> ngnrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Don't be offended. This critique may sound a little rough, but it's how I see the situation.
> If you break it down, it's pretty obvious that you didn't do your undergrad in engineering.
> 
> GENERAL subjects (math, stats, econ, chem, bio, ethics, computers): you correctly answered 61 of 84 for 73%. Not outstanding, but respectable. And definitely worth a passing grade.
> 
> ENGINEERING specific subjects (mechanics, materials, fluids, electrical, thermo): you correctly answered 29 of 96 for 30%. This shows a definite lack of understanding of fundamental engineering principles. Or, in the soft spoken heavily Asian accented words of the best professor I ever had, "Even if you do math all right... you get problem wrong... because, you don't understand _concept_."
> 
> I don't care how good you are at math. This is a timed test. And it is absolutely unforgiving to those that use extra time struggling to understand the problems because don't thoroughly understand the concepts. If you can convince yourself that a self-guided study regimen will give you the ability to look at any problem and understand what it's asking, what given information is extraneous, and what equations are necessary to solve it... all within the first read, and without flinching, then by all means skip the degree, get your nose to the grindstone, and start studying.
> 
> But, if you have _any_ doubt, you probably would be better off starting that degree program now. There's a reason it typically takes a minimum of four years of studying their asses off for most people to get a BS in engineering. And it's not because they just enjoy spending all their free time on campus. There's a _lot_ of material covered in those four years; most of it building on concepts learned in previous classes. And remember, all the questions on the FE exam come from _somewhere_ in that material. That's just simply way too much material to "cram" before the exam.
> 
> But only you know your abilities and your level of determination. Ultimately, it's a judgement call you'll have to make yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> I would have to agree with this in all particulars.
Click to expand...


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## Exception Collection

maddukes said:


> I am not offended at all at the critique. I pretty much knew that deep down. My personal situation is so unique that I was just hoping to be able to work around having to get the degree. I am in my mid-30s with an established family. Working full time is tough with kids to go to school (it took me 4 years to get my Master's doing 1 class a semester). Anyways, you are right, it comes down to a serious decision that I have to make. The frustrating thing is that I know people who didn't have Thermo or Fluids or Electric circuits in their undergrad engineering degree and STILL passed the Other Disciplines test (the one I took). Maybe they just did slightly better in Mechanics than I did and that was what helped them over the hump. So if 73% on the General subjects isn't outstanding in your opinion, what would be? 90%? I agree that 30% in the Engineering subjects is not good, and needs improvement but I wonder if I take 1 or 2 classes in those subjects (Mechanics, Fluids, or circuits for example) would that probably be enough to get over the hump. I can always go back to school once my kids are old and out of school to get the degree, but I need to pass the FE/PE in the near term and can't really get a 4-year degree at this point.
> 
> Thanks for the constructive criticism, it was very much appreciated.


I came to a conclusion a long time ago: No situation is totally unique. There are people in situations close to yours. A few years ago, I was in a similar position - except without any education whatsoever (100% experience based), and substituting major debt and medical issues for the family stresses.

Taking a few subject-specific classes sounds like an excellent idea.

If you can't afford to spend the money, you might also consider seeing if professors are OK with you auditing courses, or even talking to them one a face to face basis and requesting permission to just sit in rather than register. If you can afford the money but not so much the time, I would strongly suggest that if you haven't already you pick up some of the books from these courses - a year or two out of date is probably fine and will be cheaper - and study them/do the questions in them until you know and understand everything.

And most of all - if you are struggling with something - ask someone you know about it!


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## willsee

The statics questions on the exam were pretty basic from what I remember I would start there. Like suggested grab a book or audit a course.


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## EE_Mike

Best of luck to you Jason. So many people have chimed in and they have given a lot of good guidance. Just focus on how good "Jason, P.E." looks/sounds and don't ever give up.


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## maddukes

As a start, do you think a standard College Physics class would get me started in re-studying for the April 2012 exam?



EE_Mike said:


> Best of luck to you Jason. So many people have chimed in and they have given a lot of good guidance. Just focus on how good "Jason, P.E." looks/sounds and don't ever give up.


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## RyRobe

maddukes said:


> As a start, do you think a standard College Physics class would get me started in re-studying for the April 2012 exam?
> 
> 
> EE_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck to you Jason. So many people have chimed in and they have given a lot of good guidance. Just focus on how good "Jason, P.E." looks/sounds and don't ever give up.
Click to expand...







I was out of school 2 years before I attempted the FE. Big mistakes aside, I took the FE 5 times with scores always in the 60's, in fact I got three 66's in a row of taking the F.E. exam. This time I took TESTMASTERS and passed. They are very professional and teach you how to pass the test....they do not try to re-teach every class you have ever had, although they do go through all the basics. They know what the F.E. test is all about and how to be successful. I was studying with three other guys and we all passed this time....not a coincidence! Keep trying and don't give up and take TESTMASTERS if at all possible!


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## Exengineer

When did they start giving actual numeric results for the FE exam? All I got when I took this exam 30 years ago was a wallet card three months afterward that said I had passed the Fundamentals of Engineering exam, no other info. I was just glad I would not have to take it a second time. Eight hours in an exam room was a brutal experience, not to be repeated.


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## jperry1221

On the October 2010 fe exam, I scored a 126/240 52.5% and still failed.



STEEL MAN said:


> QUOTE (maddukes @ May 17 2011, 08:06 AM) &lt;{POST_SNAPBACK}&gt;
> I got a 122/240 which is 51%, and STILL failed. I am very frustrated considering that most info says that 50% is typical pass/fail score. Can anyone let me know if they got a higher score and FAILED? Thx, Jason
> Cut score always a mystery for us Engineers, NCEES sets that. My suggestion forget your score focus on coming back, revise your strategy and core subjects, do more problems.
> 
> Dont give up.
> 
> Good luck on your next attempt.


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## vtecingen

Sounds like with a full time job and an established family, you hardly have the time to study. The best thing is to probably take a review course with a reputable company so you are forced to study the material and get out of the house. At least you would be allocating some time for studying. I found the review course that I took to be quite helpful, especially reviewing weak subjects. It will keep you motivated especially being among professionals like yourself who are trying to pass the EIT.

I have chronicled my path to passing the EIT in my blog so that other people may benefit from my experiences:
&gt;http://eitexamprep.tumblr.com


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