# STRUCTURAL AM - Is the CERM enough? Or do I need the AISC as well?



## maximus808 (Mar 14, 2010)

I've been trying to do some Structural depth problems of the NCEES 2008 book but a lot refers to the AISC which I do not have. If I am taking transp. depth, is the AISC really necessary? Can you survive the AM portion of the Structural with just the CERM? Thanks.


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## trees (Mar 15, 2010)

maximus808 said:


> I've been trying to do some Structural depth problems of the NCEES 2008 book but a lot refers to the AISC which I do not have. If I am taking transp. depth, is the AISC really necessary? Can you survive the AM portion of the Structural with just the CERM? Thanks.


I didn't use AISC in the morning but I did use several times in the Structural PM. I think AISC is not that necessary in the morning. Just my two cents.


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## CaltransPEHopeful (Mar 15, 2010)

I've been pondering that same question myself. Judging from the AM structural questions offered in the NCEES publication vs. the structural depth I would say no, you don't need them. But then again I would hate to get surprised at exam time. Can anyone else shed light on this matter?


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## Ble_PE (Mar 15, 2010)

I don't see any need for having the steel manual for the morning section of the exam. You are not going to see material specific design problems, those will come in the afternoon. A good structural analysis book and the CERM should be sufficient.


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## TXCoogPE (Mar 15, 2010)

I only needed the CERM for the structural AM section. Good thing too, because my TestMaster's class notes and handouts on the subject were of absolutely no help.


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## maximus808 (Mar 15, 2010)

Any particular areas to focus on? Structural is probably one of my weaker subjects.

Area of Steel in Conc. Beam?

Shear/ Moment Diagrams?

Vertical Reactions/Static Equations?

Designing of Steel?

Stress/Strain/Deflection?

Thanks Guys!


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## sac_engineer (Mar 19, 2010)

maximus808 said:


> Any particular areas to focus on? Structural is probably one of my weaker subjects.
> Area of Steel in Conc. Beam?
> 
> Shear/ Moment Diagrams?
> ...



Yes to all of the above, except steel design. Area of steel in conc. beam may come up, but don't lose sleep over it, as long as you know the variables used in the area of steel equation. Definitely know how to draw shear and moment diagrams and be able to calc deflection when given loading, E and I.

In general, don't try to improve your weaker subjects by spending too much time than necessary. You're not trying to score 100% on the exam, so it's better to be confident on 3 or 4 out of the 5 civil disciplines for the breadth portion of the exam. For me, my weakest discipline was construction and I spent maybe a couple of hours studying for it. Water was probably my 2nd weakest, so I just focused on open hydraulics.

Good luck!


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## NEED2009 (Mar 20, 2010)

If you are taking transportation in the PM then you probably do not need the AISC book


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## khp (Apr 6, 2010)

Looking at the NCEES outline I'm confused what's on the morning structural section.

Is there any concrete / steel design? Is it along the lines of whats on the civil fe afternoon exam? i.e. it may ask how many #5 bars you need in a beam, or ask you what w10 shape is best for a loading condition? Do you have to know how to size a footing past Pu/ Area?

My impression is that the structural portion is more focused on statics and strength of materials, i.e. max shear, moments, diagrams. Deflection of beams and trusses via internal energy, conjugate beam method or virtual work. Is this right?

I really don't want to spend more time studying anything that isn't absolutely essential at this point


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## sac_engineer (Apr 6, 2010)

khp said:


> Looking at the NCEES outline I'm confused what's on the morning structural section.
> Is there any concrete / steel design? Is it along the lines of whats on the civil fe afternoon exam? i.e. it may ask how many #5 bars you need in a beam, or ask you what w10 shape is best for a loading condition? Do you have to know how to size a footing past Pu/ Area?
> 
> My impression is that the structural portion is more focused on statics and strength of materials, i.e. max shear, moments, diagrams. Deflection of beams and trusses via internal energy, conjugate beam method or virtual work. Is this right?
> ...


Your impression is on track. Don't get too bogged down with designing a concrete or steel beam. That's too much to ask for in the morning.

Also, no one can be fully prepared for all of the civil engineering topics covered for the breadth exam. It's better to forgo a few topics for peace of mind.

Good luck!


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## Jtiger (Jun 23, 2010)

sac_engineer said:


> maximus808 said:
> 
> 
> > Any particular areas to focus on? Structural is probably one of my weaker subjects.
> ...


Agreed. Usually a type of truss problem is on the exam and shear and moment diagrams. They are pretty straight forward but that is my opinion since it's one of my stronger subjects.


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## IL-SE (Jun 23, 2010)

I would practice doing some statics probelms and solving for reactions (sum of forces = zero, sum of moments = zero). They are usually pretty quick and straightforward.

There may be some conceptual problems like, which shape is optimum for flexure (I) or compression (round).


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## MaryJ (Jun 23, 2010)

IL-SE said:


> I would practice doing some statics probelms and solving for reactions (sum of forces = zero, sum of moments = zero). They are usually pretty quick and straightforward.
> There may be some conceptual problems like, which shape is optimum for flexure (I) or compression (round).




didn't take Structure in school and cannot find the solution to this question..Where can I find references to answer this question.?

I am planningg to take this test april next year...


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## EnvEngineer (Jun 24, 2010)

You can find the basics in all entry level structural texts, if you have had not structural I would suggest getting a old text from amazon, I am enve and targted to get at least 50% of the structural and I think I did (passed so dont know). But you will need to be able to do sum of forces, sum of moment to get any problems worked. I think cerm 11 covers a bit but not really a learning text.

I found the beam equations in the appendix on CERM 11 to be quite helpful, need to work those beams.


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## IL-SE (Jun 24, 2010)

Structural Anaysis by Hibbler is a good text. Since it's based on theory, not code, you can get an older edition for much cheaper. I think I got one for around $15. I wouldn't go through the whole book, but the first couple chapters on solving simple (determinate) beams, frames, and trusses would be useful.


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## Paul S (Jun 24, 2010)

IL-SE said:


> Structural Anaysis by Hibbler is a good text. Since it's based on theory, not code, you can get an older edition for much cheaper. I think I got one for around $15. I wouldn't go through the whole book, but the first couple chapters on solving simple (determinate) beams, frames, and trusses would be useful.


I second that, that is a good book.


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## rockycro (Jun 29, 2010)

I would bring every reference manual you can get your hands on. Whatever list NCEES suggests, bring it.

I took the structural PM and did not have AASHTO or ASCE-7 and wanted to kick myself on a couple of gimme questions.

I wound up passing but wouldve been distraught if I didnt knowing I may have given away a couple of questions.


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## MikeHansen (Aug 13, 2010)

The CERM is definately enough for the structural am portion. Make sure you know how to utilize the appendices in the CERM for structural problems. I made an exam guide with 40 realistic exam style questions that show you how to reference your CERM for nearly any problem you will see during the morning session.

Check out www.peexamguides.com or google Mike's Civil PE Exam Guide.

Type in code 9EVBAXM6 for $5 off the guide.


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