# Engineering Consulting



## JSteven (Feb 26, 2010)

I had my first co-op/internship full time job about 12 years ago and I just took a new position this January in the Geotech Consulting field as an "entry level" engineer. I've been working on and off since then (over 6 full time years straight after graduation, 1.5 years of full time co-op during school, part-time engineering work between classes and hiring freeze approx 2 years) and I have yet to see any decent financial reward or personal satisfaction for my work and I find that most people in this field have little to no practical function.

I respect these humble positions to some extent, but I feel I am surrounded by eggheads. I cant seem to pass the Geotech PE and work continues to frustrate me. Anyone here work in the field of estimating, project management, product R&amp;D, tech support/sales, who can offer a testimonial for a career change?


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## rppearso (Feb 27, 2010)

JSteven said:


> I had my first co-op/internship full time job about 12 years ago and I just took a new position this January in the Geotech Consulting field as an "entry level" engineer. I've been working on and off since then (over 6 full time years straight after graduation, 1.5 years of full time co-op during school, part-time engineering work between classes and hiring freeze approx 2 years) and I have yet to see any decent financial reward or personal satisfaction for my work and I find that most people in this field have little to no practical function.
> I respect these humble positions to some extent, but I feel I am surrounded by eggheads. I cant seem to pass the Geotech PE and work continues to frustrate me. Anyone here work in the field of estimating, project management, product R&amp;D, tech support/sales, who can offer a testimonial for a career change?


I would definitly say being on the contractor side is much worse then being on the client side unless you can make the legendary individual contractor salerys (upwards of around 200k) or if you are trying to build experience and get your PE etc. If you have established your self as a credible PE with 5-7 years experience and you are not making 6 figures you should try finding a job with the client. Contract jobs are not ment to be stable but in theory you should be making more than enough to put in the bank to ride out a down turn but if you are already an established engineer and are not bank rolling best to go to the client side if you can or find a better contractor that will pay enough so you can survive down turns. If you are not an established engineer then thats a different story, you should always be striving for the next certificate (PE, etc) or degree as well as being willing to tackle difficult engineering problems at work and the rest will fall into place when people are getting laid off you just might get an offer from the client if you stand out as someone who is not a joker. This is exactly my position now, I am a grossly underpaid contractor working in the client offices for almost a year now and am working on either going with another contractor for a 130% raise or trying to go direct with the client. Obviously we can only do what is in our control to change but this is the path I would recommend. Your probably going to get the hooky pooky about how your lucky to have a job but if you are a super star player there is real money to be made out there. You also may have to be willing to move, I personally would never take a rotational position because I like sex to much but for some there is really good money to be made doing that as well.

As far as project managment I find alot of people working in project management have no buisness being there, project management is sufficiently complicated enough that you really should have an MBA with emphisis in project management there are alot of things that have to go right for a project to be sucessful, not my chosen carrer path but I have seen well managed and poorly managed jobs and the difference is usually a project manager that knows what he is doing and has actual class room training and not just some guy in the company that puts on a cow boy hat. R&amp;D is PhD level stuff, this is what I eventually want to get into, very low likely hood of working around egg heads in R&amp;D (not impossible though). Never dealt with sales and have no interest, heard you can make alot of money but I would hate it unless I really really believed in the product.


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## roadwreck (Feb 28, 2010)

My advice? Don't listen to a word rppearso says. :screwloose:


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## Dexman PE (Feb 28, 2010)

roadwreck said:


> My advice? Don't listen to a word rppearso says. :screwloose:


+100


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## wilheldp_PE (Feb 28, 2010)

roadwreck said:


> My advice? Don't listen to a word rppearso says. :screwloose:


Mega Dittos.


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## IlPadrino (Feb 28, 2010)

rppearso said:


> As far as project managment I find alot of people working in project management have no buisness being there, project management is sufficiently complicated enough that you really should have an MBA with emphisis in project management there are alot of things that have to go right for a project to be sucessful, not my chosen carrer path but I have seen well managed and poorly managed jobs and the difference is usually a project manager that knows what he is doing and has actual class room training and not just some guy in the company that puts on a cow boy hat.


I smell something funny... maybe that's because you're talking out your ass?

PMs in construction don't need an MBA education to be successful - I have too many direct examples to the counter.


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## Flyer_PE (Feb 28, 2010)

IlPadrino said:


> PMs in construction don't need an MBA education to be successful - I have too many direct examples to the counter.


They don't need them in design either. I have a few examples there myself.


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## benbo (Mar 1, 2010)

rp-

As wrong as you are about so many things, I find myself a little frightened at the thought that you are actually in control of chemical processes. I am hoping that either-

1. You are one of those savants who is a genius in one area but pretty much loco in everything else, or

2. You are a bored middleschooler laughing your ass off because you managed to get a bunch of professional engineers to take you seriously enough too argue with you.

It may just be difficulty putting your thoughts into words on a screen. And a lot of words I might add. But sorry, that's how you come across..


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## SSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

rppearso said:


> I personally would never take a rotational position because I like sex to much


Huh?


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 1, 2010)

SSmith said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> > I personally would never take a rotational position because I like sex to much
> ...


You probably don't want to go there...


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## SSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> SSmith said:
> 
> 
> > rppearso said:
> ...


Only because I like sex to much.


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## Supe (Mar 1, 2010)

IlPadrino said:


> PMs in construction don't need an MBA education to be successful - I have too many direct examples to the counter.



I will take this a step further.

PM's in construction that have MBA's tend to be the WORST PM's out of all of them. They all become bean counters with zero concept of what needs to take place in the field, and the time and money they end up wasting because of it FAR outweighs their attempts to nickel and dime everything else.


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## MechGuy (Mar 1, 2010)

SSmith said:


> rppearso said:
> 
> 
> > I personally would never take a rotational position because I like sex to much
> ...


That was the same reaction I just had after reading this load of hooky pooky. WTF??


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## Dexman PE (Mar 1, 2010)

benbo said:


> rp-As wrong as you are about so many things, I find myself a little frightened at the thought that you are actually in control of chemical processes. I am hoping that either-
> 
> 1. You are one of those savants who is a genius in one area but pretty much loco in everything else, or
> 
> ...


I agree with #2.


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## Road Guy (Mar 1, 2010)

Jsteven

I went through similar feelings about 5 years ago, I didnt see any major money reward for the investment in my career. I wasnt in geotech but I had similar feelings about working my way into being a Project Manager, I was frustrated, I looked at everything from going to work to be a store manager at Home Depot, to working for accenture, and even came close to being an FBI Agent.

When I looked at other choices it became apparant to me that the money I would take by changing careers would be too much of a setback and I stuck it out, passed the PE, and then after two job changes am somewhat happy and feel I am compensanted at a fair amount.

Maybe take a look at doing something outside of geotech within the civil engineering field and look for something that has a little more job satisfaction?


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## JSteven (Mar 1, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> Jsteven
> I went through similar feelings about 5 years ago, I didnt see any major money reward for the investment in my career. I wasnt in geotech but I had similar feelings about working my way into being a Project Manager, I was frustrated, I looked at everything from going to work to be a store manager at Home Depot, to working for accenture, and even came close to being an FBI Agent.
> 
> When I looked at other choices it became apparant to me that the money I would take by changing careers would be too much of a setback and I stuck it out, passed the PE, and then after two job changes am somewhat happy and feel I am compensanted at a fair amount.
> ...


All good points mentioned above and thanks. As far as getting over this PE hurdle would it be advised to stick with the Geotech or is there an easier exam... Construction/Transpo? I know enough about site construction and road construction in a general sense, but how difficult would those exams be for someone who isnt a highway engineer or a PM by nature?


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## roadwreck (Mar 1, 2010)

JSteven said:


> As far as getting over this PE hurdle would it be advised to stick with the Geotech or is there an easier exam... Construction/Transpo? I know enough about site construction and road construction in a general sense, but how difficult would those exams be for someone who isnt a highway engineer or a PM by nature?


The "easiest" exam is the one in the area you are most familiar with.


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## SSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

roadwreck said:


> The "easiest" exam is the one in the area you are most familiar with.


Only because you like sex too much.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 1, 2010)

SSmith said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > The "easiest" exam is the one in the area you are most familiar with.
> ...


I think you meant you like sex to much.


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## EM_PS (Mar 1, 2010)

become a surveyor like me. I make it rain with my fatty income - i likes sex 2 :mf_boff:


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## Sschell (Mar 1, 2010)

I can't believe I read the whole thing... I am now officially stupider than when I opened this thread.


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## JSteven (Mar 1, 2010)

EM_PS said:


> become a surveyor like me. I make it rain with my fatty income - i likes sex 2 :mf_boff:


Yeah? I gotta say surveying is pretty attractive. I spent a lot of time in the field and I gotta say

that the low level of supervision as well as generous amounts of outdoors time would do wonders for my mental health. Sex and money notwithstanding!


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## Dexman PE (Mar 1, 2010)

I likes all the sex I get from my fatty salary too. That's why I got into engineering, it's all about the bling!!







Seriously though, the easiest exam is the one you have the most work experience with. I had no chance at all for the Water resources exam, but a co-worker thought it was easy, and vice-versa for the construction exam. It's about what you're comfortable with doing.


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## EM_PS (Mar 1, 2010)

JSteven said:


> EM_PS said:
> 
> 
> > become a surveyor like me. I make it rain with my fatty income - i likes sex 2 :mf_boff:
> ...


that and you carry machetes!



Dexman PE said:


> Seriously though, the easiest exam is the one you have the most work experience with. I had no chance at all for the Water resources exam, but a co-worker thought it was easy, and vice-versa for the construction exam. It's about what you're comfortable with doing.


D = 1 / F

D is level of difficulty, F is level of familiarity


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## Sschell (Mar 1, 2010)

^there should probably be a constant in that equation.... and you neglected units... are we working in SI here?


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## benbo (Mar 1, 2010)

^^^

Um, don't question him. He makes fatty money.


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## EM_PS (Mar 1, 2010)

units are dimensionless...like radians...and my income

as for a constants, lets throw in me (electron mass) on the argument side, and h (plank's constant) on the assignment side

the units cancel out - kinda like how posi-trac works in a chrysler...it just does


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 2, 2010)

EM_PS said:


> the units cancel out - kinda like how posi-trac works in a chrysler...it just does


Ahem. Chrysler limited slips are called Sure Grip. Posi-traction is a GM term.


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## JSteven (Mar 2, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> EM_PS said:
> 
> 
> > the units cancel out - kinda like how posi-trac works in a chrysler...it just does
> ...


Once again, I respect these humble positions to some extent, but I feel I am surrounded by eggheads


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## MA_PE (Mar 2, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> EM_PS said:
> 
> 
> > the units cancel out - kinda like how posi-trac works in a chrysler...it just does
> ...


and for the record (courtesy of Wikipedia)

Other factory names for Limited Slip Differentials include:

Alfa Romeo: Q2

American Motors: Twin-Grip

Buick: Positive Traction

Chevrolet/GMC trucks (after 1973): Gov-Lock

Ferrari: E-Diff

Fiat: Viscodrive

Ford: Equa-Lock and Traction-Lok

International: Trak-Lok or Powr-Lok

Jeep: Trac-Lok (clutch-type mechanical), Tru-Lok (gear-type mechanica), and Vari-Lok (gerotor pump)

Mopar: Sure Grip

Oldsmobile: Anti-Spin

Pontiac: Safe-T-Track

Saab: Saab XWD eLSD

Studebaker-Packard Corporation: Twin Traction

TVR: Hydratrak


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## Mutha PE PS (Mar 2, 2010)

Don't let EM pull the wool over your eyes. surveyors can make good money, but we fight amongst ourselves way too often and end up cutting our throat!

There is definitely more money on the engineering side.

Consulting is feast or famine. There is is a lot of famine out here right now. I have worked in both local government and private consulting. I prefer the private consulting even in tough times, as it is more rewarding personally for me.


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## JSteven (Mar 2, 2010)

Mutha PE PS said:


> Don't let EM pull the wool over your eyes. surveyors can make good money, but we fight amongst ourselves way too often and end up cutting our throat!There is definitely more money on the engineering side.
> 
> Consulting is feast or famine. There is is a lot of famine out here right now. I have worked in both local government and private consulting. I prefer the private consulting even in tough times, as it is more rewarding personally for me.


I guess the main point I was getting that is that I realized I'm not that good at consutling and I certainly don't enjoy doing it. I've done enough field, office, construction materials and soils lab, and CAD work that tells me I can use those skills in other professions or other facets of civil engineering that dosen't involve working for a consultant.


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## EnvEngineer (Mar 2, 2010)

I think you are doing the right thing in looking where you will be happy, I have been in consulting for 30 years and its a tough life. First make sure its not the firm you are with that is the issue. Maybe go to some professional meetings outside of geotech and see what you may like. I do environmental engineering are really love it.


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## NCcarguy (Mar 2, 2010)

sschell_PE said:


> I can't believe I read the whole thing... I am now officially stupider than when I opened this thread.



lol....I was thinking it, and someone typed it!

I will say the same thing others said. Just buckle down, study your ass off, learn to pay attention to details on the exam, and take the one you're most comfortable with. You can pass it, you just haven't been focused enough in the past.


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## EM_PS (Mar 2, 2010)

Capt Worley PE said:


> EM_PS said:
> 
> 
> > the units cancel out - kinda like how posi-trac works in a chrysler...it just does
> ...


[email protected] mechie! Actually i know this: BUT I was going for the line from Joe Dirt, where Dirt asks his mulleted dad 'how exactly do you not go back and look for me' or something like that - to which his dad responds (among other examples) "How exactly does a positrac rearend on a plymouth work? It just does!" I kinda blew the quote a bit



Mutha PE PS said:


> Don't let EM pull the wool over your eyes. surveyors can make good money, but we fight amongst ourselves way too often and end up cutting our throat!There is definitely more money on the engineering side.


I was just poking fun at my 'self-unemployed' status which truly leads to a dimensionless salary. I think it is [was] far easier to earn fatty $$ as a surveyor than as an engineer, if you're self employed anyways, or a small firm. Before the housing bubble burst, one guy i knew was pulling in over 6 figs mainly just doing mortgage "surveys" with the occasional boundary survey thrown in. I imagine he ain't doing too well now... 

I do hear more negativity about surveyors when you're talking about the colonial states (such as SC) versus the public land survey system (plss) states. What I feel is really killing the profession is people giving their work away - an ALTA survey that would normally be bid out at $1200-1300+ goes to some douchebag throwing a $350 quote?! People freak out in a recession and cut their costs on everything - they make no money to justify even doing the work, and the client sure doesnt get what by law he should...some people have no business being in business

- anyways, JSteven what do you mean when you complain about being surrounded by eggheads? I burned out in the consulting arena back in my prior life as a geologist, but my take back then was being surrounded by idiots


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## JSteven (Mar 2, 2010)

[No message]


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## Mutha PE PS (Mar 3, 2010)

Mutha PE PS said:


> Don't let EM pull the wool over your eyes. surveyors can make good money, but we fight amongst ourselves way too often and end up cutting our throat!There is definitely more money on the engineering side.


I was just poking fun at my 'self-unemployed' status which truly leads to a dimensionless salary. I think it is [was] far easier to earn fatty $$ as a surveyor than as an engineer, if you're self employed anyways, or a small firm. Before the housing bubble burst, one guy i knew was pulling in over 6 figs mainly just doing mortgage "surveys" with the occasional boundary survey thrown in. I imagine he ain't doing too well now... 

I do hear more negativity about surveyors when you're talking about the colonial states (such as SC) versus the public land survey system (plss) states. What I feel is really killing the profession is people giving their work away - an ALTA survey that would normally be bid out at $1200-1300+ goes to some douchebag throwing a $350 quote?! People freak out in a recession and cut their costs on everything - they make no money to justify even doing the work, and the client sure doesnt get what by law he should...some people have no business being in business

Agreed!!!!!

But the ALTA is still too cheap, even at $1300.00!

I will have to admit that recently I have had to turn work away because I refuse to prositute my services to get a job, that I know before I even leave the building, I am in the hole.


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