# Exercise/Weight Loss



## petergibbons (Dec 6, 2006)

Anyone have any sure-fire ways for me to drop about 30 lbs. (besides a hunger strike)? I have been playing basketball for 2 hrs at a time 2 days a week for about 2 months now and have only lost about 5 lbs. It's not going as fast as I would like it to. I also hit the stationary bike and eliptical jogger. Thanks!


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## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2006)

Although its slowely coming back, about 3 years ago I hit about 250 (I am 6' 2") I did cut down to around 220 over 6 months by training for and running a marathon. I was running around 20-30 miles per week, but I didnt watch my calories (food) at all, i still ate whatever I wanted, and some bad stuff as well. I think If I would have listened to the wife (she's a dietician) and also watched what i ate I could have gotten down to around 205/210..

If you do drop a pant size throw the old size away, that way when your new pants feel snug, you can step up your excerise instead of putting the larger size back on.

Here is what my wife (Registered Dietician in 4 states) recommends..

1. Write down every thing you eat for 2 weeks. Look online and estimate the # of calories. Keep this journal on going even after the 2 weeks. I am doing this now and see that it could really help.

2. Figure out the # of calories you need to sustain your current weight, then figure out the # you need for your -30 weight.

3. Looking at #1 compare your total # of calories a day in your food journal to your ideal body weight numbers, and then treat your food journal like a budget and strike out what makes you over eat.

4. If you excersice, estimate the # of calories burned and add that to your total daily calories.

When she is in a bitchy mood, she tells people to stop eating fast food (All fast food) cut out all soda's, and get some god damn excercise (okay thats what she tells me but you get the drift  )


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## TouchDown (Dec 6, 2006)

I can't say that I've been much more successful.

I wanted to drop 30 lbs, started with cardio, same as you. I ended up losing 22 lbs during one stretch, by combining the following:

1. Started drinking diet soda (as much soda as I drank, this dropped calorie intake by about 600 cal's per day).

2. I started bringing my own lunch to work to somewhat control my diet. Basically sandwitch and salad. I bring 2 snacks with me (typically one a vegetable - carrots, the other a fruit - apple). In other words, I began to control my caloric intake and start to reduce calories and eliminate fatty high calorie/carb foods (fries and other crap they have here at work).

3. For cardio to start, I was riding my bike every day for about 45 minutes (on the trail behind my house, that's about 12 miles total trip)

3b. when weather changed in fall and it started raining, my wife and I joined a gym and I ride stationary bike, or ellipitical. I like the elliptical more because of using my upper body.

A trick I read in some magazines is that if you do cardio, monitor your heartrate close, and alternate resistance. Heavy work (target heart rate), then back off and let it drop 20bpm, and back up again. They say that alternating heart rates like this will target burning fat more??? Can't remember why. That's why I think I had so much success with riding the bike outdoors, hills, downslopes, I would work and rest, work and rest...

Another sure fire way to burn more calories is to begin weight lifting. Muscle mass burns calories. You may add weight with building muscle, but it's weight that is desireable. So, don't just trust the scale, start watching your waist line.

The 22 lbs, leveled off and over the holiday, I ate too much, and stopped going to the gym as much (I had been doing cardio 3 X per week and weights 3 x per week), lately, I've only been doing cardio about 2X per week and I put back on 10 lbs fast.

It's a battle between how much calories you take in vs. burn. Your bodies metabolism can change over time and you burn less calories, but adding muscle mass will help increase that. Only issue with muscle mass is you can lose it if you don't keep working it.

Some of the other guys on the board are much better at talking to this. I can only speak from my experience from May until now. PS - you don't want the weight to come off really fast. I've heard that max is about 10 lbs. a month.

Good luck!


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## Kipper (Dec 6, 2006)

I lost 30 lbs. over a 6 month duration. I did not eat until I actually felt hunger pains. I ate what I normally would eat, but I cut the portions in half. Even burgers.

:watch:

Even cutting the meal in half I ate until I was full. This is the most difficult part. Before if there was food in front of me I would eat. The key to this is to eat slower, talk more, and take a drink after each bite.

So the premise is simple eat what you want. But only eat when you are really hungry and quit when you are full.

You may eat more than three meals a day this way, but it is your body that is telling you when you need fuel.

I did not exercise any other than working with boys soccer two days a week.

If I would have built some muscle mass and increased my metabolism I would have done better.

:thumbsup:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 6, 2006)

One of the easiest thing to do is just cut out junk calories. Soda is tooth rotting garbage with no nutritional value. If you drink 2 cans a day, which isn't a lot for some, that's 300 calories right there. Same goes for dessert. There's just no need to have it.

Bring your lunch. I do this 4 days a week. I do like to go out once a week just for variety or to mingle with coworkers. A sandwich, piece of fruit, and bottle of water is healthier than almost anything you'll get out. And it's MUCH cheaper to boot.

Get disciplined about exercise. I try do 5 days a week. I look at it as something that has to get done, like going to work or cleaning the house, rather than a luxury if I have time. You'd be surprised how quick it becomes second nature.


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## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2006)

yeah if your single / or have no kids there's not much of an excuse not to excerise, but once you get a few rugrats running around, it becomes a serious scheduling issue. especially if the spouse is also trying to squeeze in some exercise.

last night after we got the kids to sleep, she went to run, then I went when she got back, by the time I got back, showered, it was 11:30 and thanks to the PT I was wide awake and couldnt fall asleep until around 12:30....

I dont want to put the $$ into buying a good treadmill but we have been looking at getting a decent elliptical machine for the basement, so we could at least do something when the kids are home (normally my wife works weekends so its almost impossible to get any PT in during the weekend)


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## GCracker (Dec 6, 2006)

I have a Chuck Norris Total Gym in my room that scares weight away!! 

Seriously, I use the total gym for about 30 minutes in the morning and eat reasonable meals. NO soda, lot's of water and green tea, and a cup of coffee. Seems to work.

Beer is my weakness.


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## mizzoueng (Dec 6, 2006)

We just got a treadmill from Sears. Not the most expensive one on the market but it'll hold my 260 frame easily.

Lift weight, do cardio 2 times a week. Do abs, this helps more than you think. Watch what you eat. Don't starve yourself, you can go on a 2000 cal diet and if you are still starving, eat celery or carrots or some other fruit or veggie.

Cut out coffee. But I have read that if you drink 1 cup, thats 1 measuring cup, of black coffee, no sugar, flavoring, creamer, etc, before you workout that it actually jump starts to metabolic process and give you a small energy boost to get going.

Don't buy those diet pills, 99.9% of them are crap. I've tried a bunch of them for reviews online. The only one I saw benefits from was a ECA stack. But even then that is not reccommended for beginners or even average lifters/ workaholics. Trust me, its not fun.

If you have limited time, I reccommend you do cardio for 30-45 minutes, maybe 1 hour 2-3 times a week. For lifting, lift 2-3 times a week. If you can get your hands on some free weights, a bar, and a good rubber mat, do olympic lifts. Snatch and clean &amp; press. These end up being nearly complete body workouts and will help you gain flexibility and stamina. Which helps in other parts of your life 

But if you have time to kill and want a structured workout to help you say lose 30 pounds of fat and turn it into 15 pounds of muscle, then go to a board like bodybuildingforyou.com and ask around there for workouts. You can use the search feature and probably find it without even asking. People are on there all the time uploading workout schedules and making public posts about what their workouts are doing for them.

'.02'


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 6, 2006)

> Beer is my weakness.


Mine too.


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## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2006)

also eat breakfeast


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 6, 2006)

I'm definitely a breakfast guy. We've always got lots of leftovers around, which make for a kickass start to the day.


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## Wolverine (Dec 6, 2006)

Lots of good advice here already but can't let the topic pass without getting my '.02' in, having once been a FatBastard ("_ooh, I'm gonna eat me a baby!_")

Weight loss is a complex mathematical algorithm - burn more calories than you consume. Burn more, consume less, or do both. Duh. It's just too simple for most people to understand.

My personal favorite tips to add are pretty simple too:

&gt;Get your heart rate up - exercise is good but exercise that gets your heart rate jamming is better. IMHO(nonPE), road running is the fastest, best way. Spinning is good too. Add that 2X to the B-ball and I think you are there.

&gt;Drink lots of water - water cools the body which forces you to burn more calories - Ok, I made that up, but drinking lots of water always works for me.

&gt;Eat vegetables, particularly vegetable plates at lunch (that is unless your cafeteria is a grease trap like ours where a four-veg plate consists of grease, butter, sugar, and green food coloring.)

Beer is also my weakness and I'm up about ten pounds heading into winter. Need to review and follow my own advice.


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## petergibbons (Dec 6, 2006)

> Spinning is good too. Add that 2X to the B-ball and I think you are there.


What is spinning?


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## MetroRAFB (Dec 6, 2006)

> Spinning is good too.
> 
> 
> water cools the body which forces you to burn more calories - Ok, I made that up, but drinking lots of water always works for me.


Forgive me for asking, but what the hell is spinning? It sounds like a Wilt Chamberlain reference to me but apparently it's not as much fun as all that.

In theory, your body will burn more calories if you just drink gallons and gallons of freezing cold water. Takes calories just to bring that stuff up to your body temp after you swallow it doesn't it?


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## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2006)

spinning = bike classes, I think there pretty intense, never did one though, I just personally cant stand bikes..


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## petergibbons (Dec 6, 2006)

I don't care a lot for stationary bikes either. Riding outside during the good weather months would be fun though. I've noticed that the eliptical jogger burns the most calories compared to the treadmill, stairclimber, and bike in the same amount of time for me.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

This seems to be a popular topic, I'm going to paste what I put in that other thread today.

FOR AN AVERAGE MALE:

If you make sure that you eat no more than 400 calories per sitting, and have at least 2 hrs between meals, you can lose an amazing amount of weight with minimal cardio.

If you eat 400 calories per meal at 6:00 am, 9, noon, 3, and 6:00 pm. That's 5 meals at 3 hrs apart for a total of 2,000 calories. Do 30-40 minutes of cardio (walk, elliptical, etc.) at least 3-4 times a week, and you WILL burn off fat.

It is important to not miss any of the 5 meals, and of course the healthier and cleaner the 400 calories are the faster you'll lose the weight, but I guarantee if your 400 calories was from ANY type of food, you'll still lose the weight.

I am usually 250 lbs. in the offseason, and compete in bodybuilding at 198 lbs. and in powerlifting at 220 lbs. I've taken 50 lbs. off on 7 different occasions now. It's not that hard, it's just a matter of doing it.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

To give you a break down on the 400 calorie meal.

PROTEIN is found in meats and fish, and is easiest to estimate that you will get 5 grams of protein per ounce. There are 4 calories per gram of protein, so one chicken breast averages 5 ounces. That is 5 oz. times 5 grams of protein per oz. = 25 grams of protein, times 4 calories per grams is 100 calories from the chicken breast.

an 8 oz. steak (average size) would give 40 grams of protein, and 160 calories.

Then, if you eat clean carbs with that, you can easily make up your 400 calories. BUT carbs are easy to overeat. A cup of brown rice to go with that chicken or steak would be 45 grams of carbs, at 4 calories per gram, you now have 180 calories to add in. That meal might have 5 grams of fat, at 9 calories per gram would add another 45 calories = a total of 385 calories.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

Carbs:

cup (cooked) of brown rice = 45 gm carbs, 180 calories

A Sweet potato = 40g carbs, 160 calories

2 pieces wheat toast = 25g carbs, 100 calories

1/2 cup of oats = 50g carbs, 200 calories

Protein:

8 oz. Steak = 40 grams, 200 calories

8 oz. Chicken = 40 grams, 200 calories

8 oz. Fish = 40 grams, 200 calories

1 whole egg = 6g fat, 6g protein, 80 calories

1 egg white = 4g protein, 25 calories


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## MetroRAFB (Dec 6, 2006)

> 1 whole egg = 6g fat, 6g protein, 80 calories


What if I discard the shell?

:jk:


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## petergibbons (Dec 6, 2006)

> > 1 whole egg = 6g fat, 6g protein, 80 calories
> 
> 
> What if I discard the shell?
> ...


You have to eat the shell to meet the daily requirement for "ruffage".


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## MetroRAFB (Dec 6, 2006)

Speaking of eggs, my 7yr old cracked me up so bad this morning I almost ran off the road while taking him to school. He's been hog hunting with me a couple of times so he knows how prolific they are on the property we hunt. He likes to talk about hunting all the time and this morning he brought up the subject in conversation.

"Daddy, what will happen if the hogs just keep laying eggs and keep laying eggs and keep laying eggs?"

He knows that hogs don't lay eggs, he was just yanking my chain. I almost lost it I was laughing so hard.

:true:


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## petergibbons (Dec 6, 2006)

Is it true that pop (soda for all non-West Virginians), even diet pop, slows down your metabolism? Seems like a guy at the gym told me this a couple of years ago.


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## Slugger926 (Dec 6, 2006)

Using Elington Darden's "Flat Stomach ASAP", (now AKA Bowflex Plan), using weight machines and free weights, both me and my wife have lost 30lbs plus in the past in an 8 week period.

Keep calories in the 1200-1500 range, drink lots of water, and lift weights with high intestity really slow to failure in the 4-8 rep range. Once you reach failure, hold the position for 30 seconds. Spotters are required with free weights, but since you are lifting lower amount of weight really slow, even weaker spouse can spot.

Drink 1 to 2 gallons of water per day to help rehydrate the fat into carbs, and to free the liver to fat conversion rather to than taking care of toxins. THe water will flush toxins through the kidneys.

I hope this helps.

Remember, in engineering, it is a mass/energy balance.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

> Is it true that pop (soda for all non-West Virginians), even diet pop, slows down your metabolism? Seems like a guy at the gym told me this a couple of years ago.


This is the killer to most people's diets. Regular Soda (not diet) is terrible for you.

A regular can of Coke has like 44grams of sugar in it, that's 180 calories. So if you go by the 400 calorie per meal guidelines I wrote above, and add a coke to the meal, you just ruined it by going over. But, it's actually worse than that. The Coke is simple sugar, which the body will use first for energy, so the other carbs will be stored as fat, and the fact that you give a spike in simple sugar to your system by drinking the Coke will cause your body to release insulin.

The insulin regulates your blood sugar levels by "pushing" the sugar into cells. It will push what is needed at first to the starving cells, and the rest will be pushed into fat storage.

when it comes to fat cells, they are either accepting or giving. The insulin causes them to accept. This means they are not giving, so you are not losing any fat.

That is why I have listed complex clean carbs above because the simple carbs (sugars) cause the biggest spike in insulin. Complex carbs cause a spike but it's much smaller. The Atkins diet works for the fact that there a ZERO spikes because there are no carbs.


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## Road Guy (Dec 6, 2006)

yes, but it taste so damn good!


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

Oh, and diet soda doesn't really affect your diet or metabolism because there is zero calories. Although, I have read studies that give info suggesting that phenylalinine (in diet drinks) causes a blind spike in insulin, which would shut down fat release.

I don't buy into that. I drink diet soda all the way thru my bodybuilding show prep and get into 4-5% bodyfat levels. I only drop diet soda out the last few weeks because of it's sodium and carbonation content, not because of insulin spikes.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

Also, don't believe the Low Carb beer bullshit like Michelob Ultra. I love Ultra, but not because I believe it to only have 2.5 carbs.

They say there is only 2.5 carbs because the rest is "Sugar Alcohols" and FDA doesn't make them claim sugar alcohols. You can name them whatever you want, but they still spike insulin and they still have 4 calories per gram, so an Ultra still has as many calories as a Bud Light, and there is really no difference. It's a marketing scheme.


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## cement (Dec 6, 2006)

I can speak from experience that too many grams of sugar alcohol may cause aircraft to make unscheduled landings :true:

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=1546


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## Slugger926 (Dec 6, 2006)

> Oh, and diet soda doesn't really affect your diet or metabolism because there is zero calories. Although, I have read studies that give info suggesting that phenylalinine (in diet drinks) causes a blind spike in insulin, which would shut down fat release.
> I don't buy into that. I drink diet soda all the way thru my bodybuilding show prep and get into 4-5% bodyfat levels. I only drop diet soda out the last few weeks because of it's sodium and carbonation content, not because of insulin spikes.


It DOES SO AFFECT IT.

The caffeine in the soda causes you to dehydrate more, so you need to drink more water in order for your liver to break down fats quicker.

You can safely lose 1lb of fat per day following proper diet, hydration, weight training, low stress, and rest program.

No surgery required, and after a week of getting over the sugar adictions, you won't feel hungary eating 5 or 6 mini-meals per day.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

If you think caffeine negatively affects your metabolism then you are badly mistaken.

Why do you think the ECA stack is so popular? Because it works. It works REALLY well.

Dehydration because of a can of diet soda? Do you know how extreme that is? Anyone dieting and training knows that you should have a good amount of water intake. More than a gallon a day is bad. But you will not dehydrate or come close to it because of the minimal amount of caffeine in diet soda.


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## SkyWarp (Dec 6, 2006)

DV is right. Eat smaller meals more often. Also, the Ephedra stack was very effective.

Like someone else said, lifting weights also helps burn fat. If you notice on cardio machines at the gym, there's a target heart rate for fat burn. Try that too.


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## DVINNY (Dec 6, 2006)

Good point SkyWarp. Fat burning is most efficient around 70% of your maximum heart rate. Once you get to 85% of your Max heart rate you are in cardiovascular improvement mode and will burn little to no fat.

To find your target area, take 220 minus your age and multiply by the 70%. So if you're 30 yrs old, it would be 220 minus 30 = 190*.7 = 133 beats/minute


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## EdinNO (Dec 6, 2006)

I lost about 50 lbs over 6 months about 2 years back by simply hitting the gym and using the eliptical joggers (various types) for about 20 minutes at a pop then hitting the weights for another 20 or 30 minutes as well as cutting back on the sugar and other carbs. In addition, I ate fruits instead of other snacks and ate 3 meals instead of 2. I don't want to associate myself with the Atkins diet or any other carb conscious "diets" because I think the exercise was just as important, I previously ate too much junk food and I never really read any or subscribed to any official diet plans.

I've since rebounded about 15 lbs but most people thought I was too thin back then and I have totally cut out my exrcise and seriously slacked up on my "diet" since then.

Never before had I ever attempted (or had to) lose weight. This system worked the first time.

Ed


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## goldnwhite (Dec 13, 2006)

The technique I found most effective post-college was 'body for life.' I hate gimmicky diets, but this one made sense.

Eating:

Smaller, more frequent meals (6/day)

Have a portion of protein and carbs at eat meal

Add vegetables at two meals

A portion is about the size of a fist

Exercise:

alternate cardio and weight training days

base workouts on intensity levels and increase your intensity level each set/minute

Take one day off per week to not exercise and eat what you want.

I'm starting the new year taking more of the 'healthy foods' approach:

- no more cokes (did this during college, but have slowly fallen off)

- no fast food

- bring lunch to work (eating out too much lately, but a new job next year may change the pattern)

- reduce processed foods/increase vegetables and fruits

- exercise more (goal of a 5k in march)


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## FusionWhite (Dec 13, 2006)

> The technique I found most effective post-college was 'body for life.' I hate gimmicky diets, but this one made sense.
> Eating:
> 
> Smaller, more frequent meals (6/day)
> ...


I did the no coke, no fast food thing for about a year in college (yeah IN college) and I didnt lose much weight but my "overall" health went way up. I felt better and got sick less often.

The best weight lose plan I ever had was working part time at Best Buy my senior year of school. I only had 3 classes so I worked most evenings from about 5 till 10:30. As a sales person there you are on your feet running around so much that I dropped 15 pounds in about 3 months. I even ate McDonalds like crazy because it was the only thing close by. I always tell myself if I ever get mega-fat Im going to go work at Best Buy again to shed that weight.

Right now Im in pretty bad shape. Im 6' and at ~215 which is 15 pounds heavier then I would like. Part of the problem of getting me motivated is that I carry a lot of my weight in my legs and upper body. When I put on weight it actually makes me look like Ive been working out more so it doesnt motivate me to ACTUALLY workout. If the weight went straight to my gut I would be in the gym EVERYDAY like a fiend.


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## Road Guy (Dec 13, 2006)

youre right, i worked at Home Depot in college for about 3 years, and I lost a boatload of weight, my aisle was "the nail aisle" not as bad as lumber, but nail delivery day was awful


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

Bill Phillips wrote "Body for Life" and it is a VERY good program for the average person. He is very knowledgable, it is not a gimmick, but a correct way of eating.

I'd recommend it to anyone other than a competitive bodybuilder. (only because our diets are much more strict getting ready for a show)


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## goldnwhite (Dec 13, 2006)

> Bill Phillips wrote "Body for Life" and it is a VERY good program for the average person. He is very knowledgable, it is not a gimmick, but a correct way of eating.
> I'd recommend it to anyone other than a competitive bodybuilder. (only because our diets are much more strict getting ready for a show)


I agree. I did it after a friend recommended it and I loved it.

I have a question though, since you're a bodybuilder: the only problem I had was getting gas with all the protein. I enjoyed the shakes, but wasn't married at the time and might get some objections to the diet when I get on it again. Is there some enzyme you can take to reduce this problem or is it just a matter of your body getting used to digesting the extra protein?


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

Big problem. (if you don't live alone)

Not all protein powder is good for everyone. I use Met-Rx because it goes well with my digestive system. I can't use alot of the other big brands because I'll feel like I'm going to puke it back up, or it'll give gas, etc.

You have to shop around until you find one that you can take without any problems, then go with it.


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## Fudgey (Dec 13, 2006)

> I have a question though, since you're a bodybuilder: the only problem I had was getting gas with all the protein.


Wow, I gotta get me some of this stuff!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 13, 2006)

> Not all protein powder is good for everyone. I use Met-Rx because it goes well with my digestive system. I can't use alot of the other big brands because I'll feel like I'm going to puke it back up, or it'll give gas, etc.


I knew some guys in college that had a 4 man suite together in a dorm. 3 of them were real into lifting and bulking up. They all were on various protein shakes.

I swear popping by their room was like sticking your head in a septic tank. They stunk SO bad.


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

My wife won't allow it. LOL.


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## jeb6294 (Dec 13, 2006)

> - exercise more (goal of a 5k in march)


Same here, but the 5k here isn't until May so I've got a little more time to get ready. You look at the "Couch to 5k" program yet? Every year in Cincinnati they do the Flying Pig Marathon and this past year my wife and I walked in the 5k race and our 3 month old came along for the ride. I came up with the goal of actually running it this time. I asked for some running gear...shoes, watch, cold weather clothes, etc. for Christmas so I'm probably going to start getting ready on the 26th.


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## Slugger926 (Dec 13, 2006)

> If you think caffeine negatively affects your metabolism then you are badly mistaken.
> Why do you think the ECA stack is so popular? Because it works. It works REALLY well.
> 
> Dehydration because of a can of diet soda? Do you know how extreme that is? Anyone dieting and training knows that you should have a good amount of water intake. More than a gallon a day is bad. But you will not dehydrate or come close to it because of the minimal amount of caffeine in diet soda.


I didn't say caffeine negativily affects metabolism. It negativily affects the bodies ability to rehydrate fat into carbs to burn.

The ECA stack works better than just C because the Asprin causes the effects of caffine to last for hours. A CA stack works okay. What really makes the ECA stack work, it the E knocks your appetite down so you don't crave those extra snacks between 300 calorie meals.

Dr. Ellington Darden's method of Super Hydration works great. It works as well as the ECA stack without the $$$ spent.

I would recommend Darden's book "Flat Stomach ASAP" (basically the bowflex plan for other equipment or no equipment)

If you want to get bigger, Darden also has some great books for that as well.


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## Road Guy (Dec 13, 2006)

so whats the ECA stack?

I am 4 days out from no cokes/mountain dews, etc. I am sticking with a large cub of joe in the AM, but trying to kill of soda completely (money &amp; calories)


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## mizzoueng (Dec 13, 2006)

LOL. I know what you mean on the gas problem. I was using some egg protien to bulk up a little bit in college. i took it right before i went to bed and at the time my wife (then girlfriend) woke up to some of the most horrendus gas. It was like someone threw a stinkbomb in my room. :true:

Moral of the story, if you wanna get some action. Lay off the protien for a couple days.

ECA = Ephedra (or Ephedrine) + Caffiene (No-Doz) + Aspirin

Forgot the doses, but it works! Just hope you don't mind shaking once in a while :true:


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## goldnwhite (Dec 13, 2006)

> ... my wife (then girlfriend) woke up to some of the most horrendus gas.


That reminds me of a funny story from when my wife and I started dating:

I woke up in the middle of the night realizing that I had a very good stream of

farts going when it occurred to me that I wasn't sleeping alone like normal and she was sleeping in the direction of my ruckus. I turned quickly to see if she was awakened by the disturbance and saw her eyes opening slightly. I tried to think quick and said all I could muster at such a late time at night: "Was that you?" I then put my head back down and went to sleep. There was no mention of

it in the morning. :true:


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

with the ECA, I don't use the A (Aspirin), I just combine the caffeine and ephedrine (pure ephedrine not ephedra) Aspirin thins my blood too much, and I get too many nosebleeds.

It is the ingrediants in alot of popular fat burners: Stacker 2, Hydroxycut, Xenadrine, etc.

Ephedrine = 25 mg

Caffiene = 200 mg

Aspirin = 325 mg

They are legal, Clenbuterol (the now popular Hollywood drug) is not, but it usually rotated two weeks on ECA, then two weeks on Clen, then two weeks on ECA, etc. etc.

Clen is also a bronchialdialator as well, but it's effects are on the brown adipose, and ECA usually affects white adipose


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## mizzoueng (Dec 13, 2006)

plus I heard clen makes you jumpy, jittery, and a meth wanna-be. But thats just 3rd or 4th hand stories.


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## Road Guy (Dec 13, 2006)

I must need some of that, the last 3 weeks I have ran 60+ miles total (plus some basic superset dumbell workout I do) and havent lost a god damned pound.. pants do feel a little less snug though, it just pisses me off cause I want to see #'s go down..


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

> plus I heard clen makes you jumpy, jittery, and a meth wanna-be. But thats just 3rd or 4th hand stories.


Yes, Yes, and a meth wanna be? No - and that's not 3rd or 4th hand.


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

I heard 2nd hand of course.


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## mizzoueng (Dec 13, 2006)

:lol2x:

Seriously though, I read a review that said clen will keep you up a lot longer and you break out into cold sweats, itching, mild halucinations, paranoia, etc. Symptoms of a guy on meth.


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

Ephedrine wears off after a few hours, clen does take a day or two to wear off, (longer half-life) so if someone were to take too much, then yes, all above could happen.

the dosage range has to be found with clen. It is usually in 20mcg tabs, and most people start off taking 2 tabs, then 4 the next day, then 6 the next day, etc. etc. until they find which dosage gives them the systems (shakes, sweats) then they 'back off' by 2 tabs.

This gives them the highest dosage without side effects.

Some ambitious types don't care, and take shit loads thinking they'll lose weight faster and sit there and shake and sweat like meth addicts, so in a way you are dead on.


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## mizzoueng (Dec 13, 2006)

Yeah, read about it. Some guy offered to get people some. I guess he lived near the Mexico border and jumped across a lot.


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## DVINNY (Dec 13, 2006)

It's highly effective and is also a beta-2 agonist and for the first few weeks helps build muscle mass, and helps retain it throughout the duration of taking it.

[SIZE=8pt]We Strongly endorse not taking any such item, this thread is for informational purposes only.[/SIZE]

Ephedrine, caffeine, clenbuterol, and even aspirin should all ONLY be used under the supervision of a doctor


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## Road Guy (Dec 13, 2006)

so whats a decent supplement to take that actually helps?

or am I better off just eating better (&amp; all that shit) ???


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## Dleg (Dec 13, 2006)

Pushing 40, I have a different philosophy on keeping fit. I try to aim only for things I know I can sustain long-term. Body building is not one of those. Neither is triathlons, or adventure racing, or whatever else that requires more than a minimal commitment of time.

Nope. I just run 30 minutes, three days a week, and then participate in a "Hash House Harriers" run every weekend, which is like a longer and more strenuous run., followed by beer drinking. You can substitute "play basketball, soccer" whatever for that. Just something that's fun and physical, and serves as the motivation to stay fit. Once in a while I ride my bike, too, but it's getting harder to find the time for that now that I have kids.

I know the value of weight training for losing weight, but I can't sustain going to the gym either, so I do crunches, push-ups and pull-ups almost every morning to help lose weight and maintain a modicum of upper body and back strength. I hardly ever have back problems as long as I keep up with the 20-minute morning workouts.

As far as food goes, I am actively trying to eat less, and eat more vegetables and avoid fatty stuff. My diet sucked for years and I'll probably pay dearly for that. I have a deal with our housekeeper right now (one of the perks of living in America's own banana republic) that if I can drop below 180 lbs (from 190) by Christmas, she gets a big bonus. She's from the Philippines and is always skinny, because she eats practically nothing but vegetables, rice, and tiny strips of meat. And then she cooks pizza or fried chicken for the rest of us. Well, not anymore - I'm eating like she does now, and so far I'm at 184 after only 3 weeks of it.

Supplements? I'm kind of fond of barley. And hops. :beerchug


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## DVINNY (Dec 14, 2006)

> Pushing 40, I have a different philosophy on keeping fit.? I try to aim only for things I know I can sustain long-term.? Body building is not one of those.? Neither is triathlons, or adventure racing, or whatever else that requires no more than a minimal commitment of time.


Going with that theorem, I want to build a good road that will not wear down over the next 40 yrs, so I shouldn't build a Freeway or Highway, I should just build a gravel road. It's easier to sustain and requires more than a minimal commitment of time?

:jk: Had to make the comparison, that's how I see it.


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## DVINNY (Dec 14, 2006)

> so whats a decent supplement to take that actually helps?
> or am I better off just eating better (&amp; all that shit) ???


Supplements are just meant to 'supplement' your diet, they are not meant to replace it.

The only way to do it is through proper nutrition. They've never made a pill yet that's either legal or illegal that can do it by itself. Supps only help out some.

Eating proper foods in the right amounts is the only way.


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## Road Guy (Dec 14, 2006)

:suicide:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Dec 14, 2006)

> Supplements? I'm kind of fond of barley. And hops.



WORD! :???:


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## TouchDown (Dec 14, 2006)

Friend of mine at work said that his brother was big into body building and took massive amounts of protein suppliments...

Then he didn't drop a deuce for over a week, ended up passing a turd that was HUGE. He was seriously bound up.

I haven't ever messed with the suppliments, but have found that my body is only capable of building a set amount of muscle with my existing diet (no matter how much I lift). I'm limiting my mass by diet at this point, but I'm not looking to get huge either.

DV - I was wondering why my weight loss tapered off when I worked cardio at the gym on the elliptical and I operate in the 80-90% range for HR, maybe I should slow down to the 70% and see if weight loss begins again.


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## DVINNY (Dec 14, 2006)

He didn't drop a deuce for a week because he wasn't eating the veggies that he should have been.

When I help guys get ready for a competition I keep them on solid foods and away from protein powder. Solid foods boost the metabolism while being broken down and digested, powders do not.

On the cardio, when the intensity is too high, the body cannot effectively break down fats into ketones fast enough to be used as a fuel source so it switches over to nitrogen breakdown (muscle tissue) if the activity is sustained for a long duration. More than a minute or two.

For an example look at 5k, 10k, and marathon runners. They are skinny as a rail but flabby and smooth. That's because they body breaks down alot of muscle to be more effecient for endurance purposes. Too much muscle burns too many calories during a marathon, so the body burns that muscle off.

Then, look at olympic sprinters. They are muscular and lean. Their bodies do not burn off the muscle because they are not 'endurance' athletes.

That is why interval training is so effective at fat burning.

It's more complex, but I hope you get my point.


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## scottiesei (Dec 24, 2006)

DV, sent you a pm

:bow:


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## DVINNY (Dec 24, 2006)

> DV, sent you a pm:bow:


I didn't get one? Send it again :thumbsup:


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

Just an update: I've lost 14 pounds since the beginning of December by cutting back on portions at dinner, cut out snacking, drinking lots of water, and playing basketball/cardio at the gym. :woot: :woot:


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

Sweet.

We've started the "Biggest Loser" here at the office. I have to lose 40 lbs. by April 17th.

I'm down 6 this week.

Chicken, veggies, fruits, salad, and water.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

why 4/17? :dunno:


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## frazil (Jan 11, 2007)

My goal was to be at my pre-pregnancy weight by the new year. I still have 5 lbs to go, which are always the hardest. But I'm training for a 1/2 marathon, so hopefully that will do it.

Good luck dvinny.


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

congrats Peter, and good luck to others

my PE present was I signed up for the New ING Marathon in Ga (late march) I was already running 20 miles a week for the last 2 months, I just need to get up to the long runs.

I need to be back in gutless shape by the time Sea-Doo season rolls around..

the last time I did 26.2 (2003) I was still smoking a pack a day (camel-filters) so I am hoping the training will be easier than it was when I was also destroying my lungs.

&amp; yeah, I was "that guy" who was walking around the parking lot enjoying a smoke aabout a half hour after running a 4:02 marathon time (my PR) that nicotine must be some strong shit..

Frazil which 1/2 marathon are you doing? to me a 1/2 marathon is much more fun than a 10K!


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## frazil (Jan 11, 2007)

I'm doing the Covered Bridges 1/2 marathon in VT. It's a big event (~2000 people) and it's a lot of fun. I did it a couple years ago too.

It's a goal of mine to someday run a marathon. Are you following a training schedule?


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

yes I got one from runnersworld.com they have good stuff

I have run 2 before (in 2001 &amp; 2003) so its been a while.

I did a bunch of 1/2's to build my confidence for the full marathon. The one's I ran in Atlanta only had &lt;1000 people so after 8 miles you were mostly by yourself and there was no crowd so it was you and you!

The new one is supposed to have 20,000 runners so maybe it will be more interesting.

Mainly I had to sign up so at least I would force myself to run, its to easy for me to skip running at lunch when I dont have it hanging over my head..


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

^ Ms. VTE has talked about running that.

She's done the marathons in Stowe and Keene, and the Leaf Peeper 1/2 marathon.


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

Wow, that's impressive that you all are able to run a marathon! I would love to do that. I tried to get into running a couple of years ago and got bored with it pretty fast. It would be more fun for me if I joined a club and trained with others.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't think I could run one. My asthma kicks in and kills me after a while. The most I ever did was a 10k which I was proud of doing.

I'm more into bike riding.


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Its the only way I can get any "alone time"


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## Art (Jan 11, 2007)

there's a method called the Zone...

developed by a PhD in biochemistry as an offshoot of his research on how a body absorbs things...

it balances protein/carbs/fats, so the correct sugar levels, etc. are maintained and by doing so consumes the fat...

it's been used by olympic wrestlers &amp; US mil spec op types...

I did it for 3 months, lost 20 lbs and actually ate more, yet better...

it's a lifestyle deal...it's good for your heart, etc., plus you feel better...

http://www.zonediet.com/public/about-the-zone-diet.aspx

you can regulate the loss based on consumption qty, but you must keep the ratios the same...

it's perfect for an engineer, involves knowing rations, and carb, etc. qtys of various foods...once you do it for a while, the meals become standard...

my std breakfast

1/2 cup low fat yogurt

1/2 apple

1/2 protein bar

1 glass of water


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

It baffles my mind that a human can run a marathon in just over 2 hrs. A 13mph average pace for 2hrs!! :wacko:


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

yeah 4 hours for me is what I consider a "good pace"


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## frazil (Jan 11, 2007)

> The new one is supposed to have 20,000 runners so maybe it will be more interesting.


ok. So I guess 2000 is only big for around here. But a lot of people turn out just to watch it so it feels like a big event. How long did you train for your first marathon RG? WEre you starting from stratch or have you always been a runner?


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

Plus I got really discouraged after running in a 5k. I ran for a few weeks before the race on prettly level terrain. I get to the race site and it was really hilly. Race walkers and several little kids passed me up. My time was about 32 minutes, I think. :suicide:


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

I guess it wasnt the runners but lack of a crowd that made it bad, I think i saw maybe 10 "spectators" the entire time. but it was bad timing the marathon was on thanksgiving so even the cops who were working the intersection's looked at you like you were a piece of crap for making them work on a holiday..

I had always sort of been a runner, but I worked with a girl who was a hard core marathoner, we would run at lunch and she talked me into doing the marathon with her. so I got some books, did a 1st timers schedule from runners world (pretty neat if you havent seen it) and just grunted away at the weekly miles goals

she finished in like 3:20 min , I finished in 4:35 minutes my first time


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

> why 4/17? :dunno:


Someone in the office picked tax day for some reason. It was a Sunday, so they made it the 16th on Monday. Then someone else said that I would cheat and drop my water like I do for a bodybuilding show, and that I would be low that day. They are weighing in on the morning of the 16th, 17th, and 18th, and averaging the weights from those 3 days to get an accurate final weight (engineers).

So I just say the cut off is the 17th.

Long answer to a short question eh?


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2007)

> I'm doing the Covered Bridges 1/2 marathon in VT.  It's a big event (~2000 people) and it's a lot of fun.  I did it a couple years ago too.
> It's a goal of mine to someday run a marathon.  Are you following a training schedule?


Go get 'em Frazil !!







JR


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## frazil (Jan 11, 2007)

DVINNY - what's the prize? You sound motivated!

THanks JR!


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

Here is my pathetic self during a 5K, I was laughing at someone I knew who was heckeling me.

I gave myself 3 stress fractures in my right tibia (front shin) during that race


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

Jeez dude, you're a tree trunk with legs.


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## Road Guy (Jan 11, 2007)

note to self: agree with all of DV's ideas


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

> note to self: agree with all of DV's ideas


What are you talking about? You're the one who is 6'3" 230. .....and can run.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

> note to self: agree with all of DV's ideas


_**Hereby retracts all pithy remarks made in DV's direction**_


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

I would not, under any circumstances, kick DVINNY's dog!


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

> I would not, under any circumstances, kick DVINNY's dog!


Probably not, look at him in the bottom left picture next to me. LOL.


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

> > I would not, under any circumstances, kick DVINNY's dog!
> 
> 
> Probably not, look at him in the bottom left picture next to me. LOL.


Damn, looks like the dog works out too!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

Or he's been feeding them Beefcake 4000 shakes. :dunno:


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## DVINNY (Jan 11, 2007)

> Or he's been feeding them Beefcake 4000 shakes.  :dunno:


Nah, he eats enough as it is. The darker one (my female) is the one I lost in October due to cancer. He is still around eating anything he can get

his name is ANGUS. go figure


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## petergibbons (Jan 11, 2007)

> > Or he's been feeding them Beefcake 4000 shakes.? :dunno:
> 
> 
> Nah, he eats enough as it is. The darker one (my female) is the one I lost in October due to cancer. He is still around eating anything he can get
> ...


Cool name! I've dubbed myself Colonel Angus for a while. PM me and I'll give you the story behind it if you haven't figured it out.


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## cement (Jan 11, 2007)

atkins diet?

we were all doing atkins at the job trailer last project. there were cattle forming a protest line around the barbque. :true:


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## Mike in Gastonia (Jan 11, 2007)

> there's a method called the Zone...
> http://www.zonediet.com/public/about-the-zone-diet.aspx


Oh man, they charge you $4 per week to join their website? Are you a member of their online community? Or did you just read the book?


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2007)

I didn't do myself any favors for eating a 'healthy' lunch




....

Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte (Venti)

Fried Soft-Shell Crab Plate

Baked Potatoe

Rice

In my partial defense I ate the potatoe plain.

Don't hate me 

JR


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

It's a lunch thread, where's Fudgey?


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## GCracker (Jan 11, 2007)

Subway Club w/ baked Lays and Water.


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## Dleg (Jan 11, 2007)

Damn! I lost 6-7 pounds in three weeks of dieting after Thanskgiving, but plateaued and haven't lost any more. (I've been a bad boy and had a few McDonald's lunches this week).

I've been running regularly for 11 years now. My first 3 years I had horrible shin splints (probably even some stress fractures), and would always have to take 2 months off to recover from it every 6 months or so. During which I would bike, so no big loss. I tried everything, including some free services from a friend who's a chiropractor (I'd say "quack" but it was free) - ultrasound, massage, custom orthotics - and none of it worked. What finally got rid of it was starting one of those beginner 5k programs (like "couch to 5k") and just using the cheap over-the counter orthotics (Super Feet). I guess I just ran too far and never let my body build up to it properly.

But I am a real slouch for having been running 11 years - I've never gone beyond the 5k workout run, though I've done a few 10k's (without training). Weekend Hash runs are extremely strenuous and about the equivalent of a 10k, but they don't help the running because they're off-road - totally different workout.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jan 11, 2007)

Just got home from the gym.

I take a spinning class 2 nights a week after work to get some cardio work. It's hard to do much outside here in the winter because it's so cold and dark,


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## frazil (Apr 23, 2007)

So I want to start lifting a little. I run, but I haven't done much strength training. Specifically I want that V-shape on my upper arm just below the shoulder (anyone know what I'm talking about??) Does anyone know any good excercises for upper arm strength? That's probably the least favorite part of my body -- as far as upper extremities are concerned anyway.


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## FusionWhite (Apr 23, 2007)

I think your talking about your triceps. Heres a very quick and easy way to work them:

Grab a weight (plate or hand weight) and hold it with both hands. While sitting put your hands straight up over your head. Bending at the elbows lower the weight behind your head slowly. Return to starting position. Do that until your arms fall off.

Heres a link I found that might explain it better:

http://exercise.about.com/cs/weightlifting...ampletricep.htm


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## cement (Apr 23, 2007)

um, listen FusionWhite, I think your walking all over DV's turf here...



I think you are on track with that one, the close grips are great too, but then you need to buy a bar


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## Road Guy (Apr 23, 2007)

push ups, dumbell behind the neck press thing, or "DIPS" I never met a girl that could do a DIP though (I am sure DV has met a bunch though)


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 23, 2007)

FW is right on it there. I usually use a dumbbell and do it from a standing position, but it's the same idea. It does the trick.


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## Hill William (Apr 23, 2007)

cement said:


> um, listen FusionWhite, I think your walking all over DV's turf here...
> ASSED2:
> 
> I think you are on track with that one, the close grips are great too, but then you need to buy a bar



Yeah but if DV takes over she will end up looking like a pop machine with a head and won't be able to bend her arms.


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## DVINNY (Apr 23, 2007)

^^^ LMAO @ DIAZ.

Now, my wife doesn't look like a pop machine.


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## DVINNY (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't think Frazil is talking about triceps, I think she is talking about the anterior deltoid.

Side lateral raises help that the most. But it is made more visible by being lean.

But, it's separation is brought out by the arms, so triceps and biceps help accent that as well.


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## frazil (Apr 23, 2007)

lateral raises -- you mean just raising a dumbell outward?

Sheryl crow has great arms -- this is the V-shape I mean


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## DVINNY (Apr 23, 2007)

yup, that is side delts.

side lateral raises are raising the dumbells out to the side (hits this V you want) and front lateral raises hit the front delt head.


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## Road Guy (Apr 23, 2007)

get two really large cast iron skillets, and when your in the kitchen and not using the cast iron skillets just hold them down bye your side, and then slowely raise then over your head without beding your elbows.

just make sure to not overcook the cornbread while your doing so


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 23, 2007)

Check out the arms on the one in the gold...hubba hubba!


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## cement (Apr 23, 2007)

frazil said:


> lateral raises -- you mean just raising a dumbell outward?
> Sheryl crow has great arms -- this is the V-shape I mean


We should all have a personal trainer.

I think DV nailed it, plus I wanted to bump that VTE image


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## Hill William (Apr 23, 2007)

Are you looking for something like this but a little more feminine???


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## frazil (Apr 23, 2007)

yikes!! yeah...a bit more feminine and that's it.


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## Hill William (Apr 23, 2007)

I just wonder if that dude in the pic I posted is real or photoshopped.


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## DVINNY (Apr 23, 2007)

That is Marcus Ruhl in the picture and of course its photoshopped. Can't anyone get like that. Except me.


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## frazil (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm really looking for a whole workout routine. I have dumbells and a bench and a universal machine thing that I haven't done much with. Usually while I'm folding laundry I go over and lift up a dumbell a couple times, do a couple squats. I'd like to come up with a whole set that I could do a couple times a week. I'm not looking to turn into a pop machine!

FW's tricep move is good and the lateral raise. What's a dip? If anyone has a routine they want to share I'd appreciate it.


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## FusionWhite (Apr 23, 2007)

A dip is when you hold yourself up on something like parallel bars and lower yourself down then push back up. Its very very hard (for me anyway).


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## Road Guy (Apr 23, 2007)

my wife used to always ask me to "show her how to workout" basically because I look just like a broader lance armstrong :0

but I bought her a subscription to a womans fitness magazine , cant recall the name, but it is the female equivalent to "mens health" which has monthly workout routines geared for women, and it shows the "musc;e view" of what muscles the exercise works, and each month it gives you a little motivation to use those dumbells! (I need to go hit mine right now!)

off course this did not keep her from continuing to find other things to talk about, but it did provide her with some decent workouts.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 23, 2007)

I rode my 24 miles today. I'd say I'm sufficiently worked out for the day.


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## Dark Knight (Apr 23, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> I rode my 24 miles today. I'd say I'm sufficiently worked out for the day.


Wao my friend. How do you do that? Is there a bike trail or something where you can ride safely? That has to be the coolest thing in the world.

Enjoy it and be safe.


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## DVINNY (Apr 24, 2007)

This girl on the right has a better "V" than Sheryl Crow. LOL.

And DIAZ, told ya she doesn't look like a Pop Machine. (not yet)







^^ squinting into the Vegas sun


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## kevo_55 (Apr 24, 2007)

My wife doesn't lift but we did buy a treadmill right around x-mas. Personally, I use it much more than she does but we both have noticed that she has toned up a lot by walking on it for a 1/2 hour a day.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 24, 2007)

Luis said:


> Wao my friend. How do you do that? Is there a bike trail or something where you can ride safely? That has to be the coolest thing in the world.
> Enjoy it and be safe.


Actually I went riding on the local streets. It's pretty rural here and if you wait until most folks have gotten home from work it's not bad. I usually try to do a loop so I don't see the same stuff twice. The one I do the most is head down to the next town, where there is a bridge to NH. Then I come back up the other side of the river until I get to the bridge connecting to my town in VT. It's a 14 mile loop.

I just got a road bike, which really lets you go much faster and further with much less effort. It's fun once you get in a groove and really start coasting.

This is the bridge back to VT I take.





A bike trail here would be nice. Over the past few years near my parent's house in suburban NY, they have done a lot of rails to trails programs, and the town have interconnected them. It's about 40 miles end to end now. Sadly, that doesn't do me much good.


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## benbo (Apr 24, 2007)

For people that ride bikes - this spandex riding outfit stuff. Is that something that is "required uniform" in other states, or just here in California?

I live very close to the ocean and the street in front of my house is a favorite riding spot. I've seen a lot of people dressed like Lance Armstrong but with bodies like mine. And believe me, that is not a pretty sight.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 24, 2007)

It's required wearing. It's expensive but makes a world of different. Lickily I've got the right body type to pull off the bike spandex. The lean, wiry kind of muscle mass you see on runners/cyclers. I'm not ripped by any means, I'm just saying that's my body type.

I prefer to wear the padded bike shorts, or as I call them "happy butt pants". It feels like you're walking around with a load in your shorts while walking, but does wonders for, well frankly your ass and genitals while biking.

I've got a couple bike jerseys, but they are expensive. Often I'll just wear a polyester moisture wicking t-shirt. They are great for keeping you dry.


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## frazil (Apr 24, 2007)




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## frazil (Apr 24, 2007)

kevo_55 said:


> My wife doesn't lift but we did buy a treadmill right around x-mas. Personally, I use it much more than she does but we both have noticed that she has toned up a lot by walking on it for a 1/2 hour a day.


I started lifting a little because I was having problems with my knee. I've been trying to train for a half marathon, but I couldn't run for about 5 weeks because my knee would hurt everytime. I finally went to a sports medicine doctor and she said it was because I was running against traffic on banked roads (damn engineers :smileyballs: ) and told me some stretches to do.

In the meantime though I was doing some squats and leg extensions because I thought maybe building up those muscles would help. I was amazed at how it helped tone my legs even just a couple times a week. That's why I want to start doing it regularly.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 24, 2007)

> I was amazed at how it helped tone my legs even just a couple times a week.


This thread is worthless without pics! :smileyballs: 


> I finally went to a sports medicine doctor and she said it was because I was running against traffic on banked roads (damn engineers )


Sounds like a potshot against our transpo guys here! :210:


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## DVINNY (Apr 24, 2007)

frazil said:


>


Amen to that


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## cement (Apr 24, 2007)

frazil said:


> lateral raises -- you mean just raising a dumbell outward?
> Sheryl crow has great arms -- this is the V-shape I mean


I was thinking that I want to look more like Karl Rove. Any suggestions?


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## DVINNY (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm with ya cement. LOL.

Why do celebs think they know anything? It's frustrating. It's called the Tom Cruise effect.


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## jfusilloPE (Apr 25, 2007)

Just my two cents....

My wife bought us a Total Gym for my birthday last year, and we were working out on it together (until I moved to Sunny Florida last month). It is a great workout routine, and the cost for the equipment is not that bad.

They also offer a number of different exercises that you can do for all body parts. I actually created a 4 day workout routine for us that switches exercises weekly for a three period so that boredom doesn't set in.

Anyway, since I've been away from I purchased an elliptical machine for my apartment and been doing a 30 minute workout in the morning and another 30 minutes in the evening and it is a great cardio workout. I just had a physical yesterday (for my life insurance policy), and my heart rate was about 48...


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## FusionWhite (Apr 25, 2007)

I have a membership at a gym about 5 minutes from my house where I go to work out. I usually try to go in the mornings (5am is not easy to do). I try to mix in weights and cardio but I have a hard time getting motivated for cardio lately. My biggest problem is not the working out part, its the eating properly part. Every mile I run is cancelled out by my terrible terrible terrible diet.


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## frazil (Apr 25, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> This thread is worthless without pics!


I'll post pics when I'm looking like Mrs. DV! (quite a way off I'm afraid)

VT - where is that bridge?


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## DVINNY (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm still pissed about the whole Sheryl Crow thing.

She is an idiot. She said that we all need to be more sensitive to the environment and that we are killing precious trees by using too much toilet paper. She went on to say that no one needs to use more than 1 square per bathroom visit.

She thinks that one square is enough TP to clean up any mess? Are you kidding me?


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## Hill William (Apr 25, 2007)

DVINNY said:


> I'm still pissed about the whole Sheryl Crow thing.
> She is an idiot. She said that we all need to be more sensitive to the environment and that we are killing precious trees by using too much toilet paper. She went on to say that no one needs to use more than 1 square per bathroom visit.
> 
> She thinks that one square is enough TP to clean up any mess? Are you kidding me?



This is turning into a Fudgey conversation in a hurry.


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## Hill William (Apr 25, 2007)

And not to mention she is extremely wealthy and probably wipes her ass with fine linen. Not like the John Wayne stuff I'm used to.


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## FusionWhite (Apr 25, 2007)

Does anyone else hate that lotioney toilet paper? It makes my butt crack feel like its crammed full of wet leaves after using that stuff. I want my TP one step up from sand paper. Real gritty to really grab all those little poo-particles and whisk them away. Only takes a few sheets to get it all.


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## frazil (Apr 25, 2007)

DVINNY said:


> I'm still pissed about the whole Sheryl Crow thing.
> She is an idiot. She said that we all need to be more sensitive to the environment and that we are killing precious trees by using too much toilet paper. She went on to say that no one needs to use more than 1 square per bathroom visit.
> 
> She thinks that one square is enough TP to clean up any mess? Are you kidding me?


Well I try not to listen to Hollywood types when they open their mouths. I don't know why people do -- most of them barely have a high school education. Anyway I'll stay away from People magazine next time I'm looking for an example of toned muscles!


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## Hill William (Apr 25, 2007)

^^^John Wayne TP----&gt;Rough and Tough and don't take no shit off nobody.

Anybody know what the USS Enterprise and Toilet paper have in common???

They both circle Uranus looking for Klingons.

ZING


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 25, 2007)

frazil said:


> I'll post pics when I'm looking like Mrs. DV! (quite a way off I'm afraid)
> VT - where is that bridge?


It's the Cornish-Windsor bridge. It's on 12A in Cornish.


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## frazil (Apr 25, 2007)

Let's get back on track...

Has anyone seen the site, mapmyrun.com?

You can draw your route and it gives you the mileage. The site is a little funky to figure out, but it's better than driving all over town, and it's pretty accurate.


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## Road Guy (Apr 25, 2007)

I just figure I run a 9 minute mile on training runs and then hope I actually run a little faster and estimate the mileage, I want to get one of those gps things that I can wear that gives me my actual time, i run on a lot of trails and its hard to figure the exact distance I run


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## FusionWhite (Apr 25, 2007)

The park I run at has mile markers on the trails. The main loop is exactly 1 mile with several smaller and bigger loops which are marked.


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## McEngr (Apr 25, 2007)

frazil,

If you're interested in doing the tricep workout, I would recommend the "iron skillet" style workout. Also this is highly beneficial for better tone on your upper arms:







Here's the iron-skillet motion:






Dip with a chair:

Use a chair at your dinner table. Have a chair facing your back, then put your hands on the seat. Slowly bend your knees so that you can get yourself in a position to support you body with your arms. Then dip your body with knees bent. When the arms are fully extended, your legs should bent to 90 degrees. If you can do 10 of these, try doing them with 2 minute breaks between them until you can't do anymore.

For people with excellent upper body strength, it should be possible to have the legs fully extended and dipping at home is easy for a good 15-20 reps. I was only able to do 20 reps when I was in peak condition (bench-pressing 280 and weighing 155 lbs).

McEngr


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## jeb6294 (Apr 26, 2007)

Road Guy said:


> I just figure I run a 9 minute mile on training runs and then hope I actually run a little faster and estimate the mileage, I want to get one of those gps things that I can wear that gives me my actual time, i run on a lot of trails and its hard to figure the exact distance I run


If you've got an iPod Nano, you can get one of those Nike Sport Kits pretty cheap. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THE NIKE SHOES TO USE IT!!! It's some psuedo-misleading advertising that makes people think you have to buy the Nike+ shoes to use it, but you can get a little "shoe pocket" to hold the transmitter on any shoe for $5.

It's basically a pedometer that transmits the data to your Nano so it records your info as you go and will actually tell you how you're doing while you're on the move. Not quite as fancy as the GPS units, but a heck of a lot cheaper...if you've already got the Nano.


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## frazil (Apr 26, 2007)

thanks mcEngr!

I tried doing the iron-skillet move last night with a 5 lb weight in each hand. I couldn't get my arms much more than 45 degrees away from my sides.

 ...so sad.


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## Road Guy (Apr 26, 2007)

see when I recommended the iron skillet workout it was intendid to be a gender biased assumption that you could do that easily while in the kitchen


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## MA_PE (Apr 26, 2007)

Then again there's always Mrs. RG's skillet workout where she holds the skillet overhead while running after him to whack him over the head with it (this is the aerobic apart). Once prey is caught, do 15-20 reps with the skillet.(this part is good for the arms.)


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2007)

MA_PE said:


> Then again there's always Mrs. RG's skillet workout where she holds the skillet overhead while running after him to whack him over the head with it (this is the aerobic apart). Once prey is caught, do 15-20 reps with the skillet.(this part is good for the arms.)


Now that's a move I would like to see ......





JR


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## frazil (Apr 26, 2007)

Road Guy said:


> see when I recommended the iron skillet workout it was intendid to be a gender biased assumption that you could do that easily while in the kitchen
> :BS:


"Cut slits in plastic over chicken and potato compartments. Remove plastic over dessert. Microwave on HIGH for 5 minutes, rotating once"

see...no heavy lifting required!


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## Hill William (Apr 26, 2007)

Question. Do they still make microwaves that don't have the spinny turntable thing??? I think the rotate once part is pretty obsolete.


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## cement (Apr 26, 2007)

it's a good thing we have have Frazil here because us manly types would have no knowledge of such things. Any of you other ladies, feel free to chime in!

:BS:


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 26, 2007)

I just got home from a dinner function meeting the dinner was buffet style. Got to drive 70 miles home with an anvil in my gut. :BS:

Combine that with the fact that I took the day off from exercising because everything is sore (my legs cramped while driving) and I feel like a total slob. Back on the wagon tomorrow for me.

Hey Fraz - that TV dinner looks like it belongs in a museum. Is that one of the old fashioned non-biodegradable styroforam containers?



> Question. Do they still make microwaves that don't have the spinny turntable thing??? I think the rotate once part is pretty obsolete.


We had an old microwave with a manual clock dial and no turntable thingy until we moved into our spiffy new office. It's heating output was somewhere between a fart and an EZ bake oven. Now we have this high-tech thing mounted on the wall in an actual break room.


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## frazil (May 3, 2007)

frazil said:


> I tried doing the iron-skillet move last night with a 5 lb weight in each hand. I couldn't get my arms much more than 45 degrees away from my sides. :BS: ...so sad.


I just noticed that they are 10 lb weights, not 5 lbs! I'm not a total wuss afterall!!


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## Dleg (May 3, 2007)

Hey DV, what would you recommend to complement a workout that only consists of push-ups, crunches, and pull-ups? That's all I do, and I'd rather not go to a gym, but I do have some dumbells. All I want is Cheryl Crow arms, too. I get plenty of cardio through running and biking, but I'm far from as "lean" as I'd like to be.

Frazil, you're obvioulsy not a "wuss".


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## DVINNY (May 4, 2007)

Dleg,

If you are doing all the activity that you say you are, then there is one thing keeping you from being lean, and that's diet.

Hate to break it to ya. LOL.

Honestly, push-ups, pull-ups, etc. with about 3-4 cardio sessions per week is enough to keep someone in great shape if their diet is in order.

What do you eat? and how much beer consumed?


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## bigray76 (May 4, 2007)

Boxing for fitness is a great workout. I was even inspired by this thread to finally go home and get my heavy bag out and set it up (that was a 4 beer job). When I was good about working out (boxing 2-3 days a week, light weight work 2 times a week), my arms were pretty well defined and I was in great shape.

I just need to find my bag gloves and I will be set. Shadow boxing can be a good workout too if you don't want to spend the money on a bag and some other equipment.

-Ray


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 4, 2007)

They have a boxing club in my town and I see the members working out at the rec center sometimes. They are definitely trim and fit with some nice muscle lines.


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## DVINNY (May 4, 2007)

boxing is an incredible workout, one of the best IMO


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## FusionWhite (May 4, 2007)

Ive completely stopped going to the gym in the mornings. For about 5 months now Ive been getting up at 5am to hit the gym before work. I just cant do it anymore. Ive had allergies and its clogging me up so Im not sleeping real well and getting up after tossing and turning all night isnt going to happen. Of course Im also not motivated enough to go after work. Somethings got to give.


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## Dark Knight (May 4, 2007)

DVINNY said:


> boxing is an incredible workout, one of the best IMO


I am with you 100%. That, and swimming, have to be the best workouts.


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## FusionWhite (May 4, 2007)

I would love to take up boxing. Im a terrible swimmer though so thats out. I did a kickboxing class for a while and it was great.


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## Dleg (May 6, 2007)

Yeah DV, I know. My diet is definitely not that great. But I'm trying, and my beer consumption is way down, even with the post-PE spike that lasted two months or so. Plus, I haven't been as disciplined with the situps and such for the past few months. I do them in the morning, and I've gotten in the habit of sleeping in later and getting maybe one set of each in, instead of three like before. I just need to crack down. But that said, I still don't think it is giving me the Cheryl Crow shoulders I want. Definitely the pecs, biceps, triceps, and lats, but not the shoulders.


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## Guest (May 6, 2007)

I just weighed myself this morning and found that I have lost 9 lbs over the last month :w00t: :w00t:

Primarily this has been achieved through dietary measures, but not even strict ones. Increased water consumption, increased fiber consumption, tossed chips and snacks, tried to limit my out-of-house excursions to once per week (difficult especially when travelling). Even at that I haven't followed that routine strictly except for the water and fiber consumption.

I would like to add serious cardio and weight training once I drop down some more - I am sure I will need it to help keep dropping. I can honestly say I would not have been trying to get into better shape without a little inspiration from this group - excellent thread !! :th_rockon:

For now, I can attest that a few select changes in your diet can do amazing things 

JR


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## DVINNY (May 7, 2007)

remember KFC is now offering its foods with ZERO trans fats!!!!! WOO HOOO!!!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 7, 2007)

Oh boy, they might as well market it as health food now. :w00t:


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## JohnNevets (May 7, 2007)

Way to go JR!!

I know how good it feels, I just finished 2 months of a self imposed 1500 calorie diet, and have lost 35lbs so far. But considering I was up about 305, I still have a ways to go to get back in the healthy range.

If you can keep it up with just minor changes, it will be easier to stay on it, and better for you in the long run. Keep it up.

John


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## FusionWhite (May 7, 2007)

Nice JR. Changing eating habits is way harder then starting a work out. If you've got the better eating habits down then working out should be a rather easy transition. Ive always been able to hit the gym like a mad man, but eating better is a tough task for me. I just enjoy eating out too much.


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

Thanks guys !!! :w00t:

John --

I need to lose a good 75 lbs, so I am in the same boat as you. I am not going to have so much travel this month, so I am hoping to :w00t: my weight loss up to 15 - 20 lbs for the month.

FW --

My wife cooks ALL SORTS of things - especially deserts. I keep telling her to knock it off, but she still does it. I love to eat good food too, so it has been especially difficult surrounded by temptation (or more like torment).

DV --

I saw that for KFC too. I get ill eating fried chicken, so I dropped that off my list of 'eatables' a long time ago. I will entertain a Chicken Marsala every now and then, but the chicken cannot be breaded and fried. I may cook it in a broth an then brown it but it WILL NOT have any of that deep-frying action.

JR


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 7, 2007)

Did a 22 mile loop around the Connecticut River after work today, I got my exercise in like a good boy.

I really don't enjoy eating out on a regular basis, and I love to cook, so I got that going for me. We definitely shoot for a healthy yet hearty diet. I don't want to ruin the hour and a half I spent exercising by eating something real fatty. Plus I really just don't like fast food. Makes me feel crappy. If you eat garbage, it stands to reason you will feel like it too.

As for working out regularly, I'm generally pretty motivated. Fortunately for me my fiance is a fitness/nutrition nut. She doesn't nag me about it, but after waching her train for a triatholon, it makes me feel like a real turd if I don't at least go for a walk.


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## DVINNY (May 8, 2007)

You may have, but probably one lb. of muscle and two pounds of water, but staying hydrated is very important to gain mass, and I'm sure staying hydrated is important being in the freakin desert


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## bigray76 (May 8, 2007)

This is week three of the healthy foods and week one of working out... My target is to drop about 20-25 pounds. I worked out last night for the first time in a while (plan is do some weights and some boxing) - I know I am out of shape, but not as bad as I thought I was. Needless to say, I am a bit sore today so tonight I'll try my old boxing work out at about 75% and see how well the aching body holds up.

Honestly, I never thought I could get into eating salads every day for lunch, but it has grown on me and I am starting to enjoy it. While I have held steady with my weight lately, I am feeling a little more energy and better.

I have also decided that I can't let the stress of the job build up in me and my supervisor has noticed I am more reactionary lately. I am also feeling less stressed if I just get it out of my system (I don't yell at clients, just our own people - and I don't hold back when I talk to my boss).

-Ray


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## Capt Worley PE (May 8, 2007)

Since I'm nearing 41, I started walking a mile a day, drinking much less beer, and eating better. I'm amazed how much better I feel. I also lost 7 pounds in the last two weeks. I hope I can continue the trend, even start some situps and pushups in the morning. I'd love to start swimming again, because that just really burns off the pounds.


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## FusionWhite (May 8, 2007)

My biggest problem with working out isnt the motivation or eating right. Its lack of sleep. I usually require a lot of sleep. If I dont get 8 hours a night I feel like I didnt sleep enough all day. If I get less then 7 Im usually pretty worthless. Last night I got 6 hours and Im so tired I could lay my head on my desk and sleep right now. This of course makes it tough for me get moving and when I do workout I usually half ass it.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 8, 2007)

We just got a cool new scale yesterday. It was a belated birthday gift for the mrs. It's one of those scales that measures weight, % body fat, and % water by electrical impedance. You program your gender, height and age into it and it has memory for 2 people.

I tried it out. 5'9", 27 year old male, 172.2 lbs, 10.4% body fat, 61.4% water.


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## ktulu (May 8, 2007)

Why would I want to lose the body that I have acquired over my college days? That would say that I did not enjoy all the good times I had getting this body, and I don't want to lose those memories....I only have a few anyway.


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## frazil (May 8, 2007)

I thought I was working out so that I could eat whatever I want... :huh:

After a couple weeks of doing those lateral lifts I can feel more muscle in my shoulders, but I still can't see anything. I would also like that line that runs down the outside of your thigh. I can see that Mrs. DV has that too!


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## roadwreck (May 8, 2007)

frazil said:


> After a couple weeks of doing those lateral lifts I can feel more muscle in my shoulders, but I still can't see anything.


It takes time. I get frustrated w/ my girlfriend b/c she expects to see results immediatly. That's just retarted.

I'm annoyed w/ myself now. A little over two years ago I was going to the gym almost daily. It was great, and I was in great shape. Then they closed my gym and I didn't go out and find a new one right away. I kept meaning to, but I had a bunch of other things going on, moving jobs, buying a home, etc. and so I kept putting it off. Flash forward almost 2 years and I've only just now joined another gym. Needless to say I'm not in the same shape I was when my old gym closed. I'm a few pounds heavier, a lot slower, have almost 0 stamina and can't lift anywhere near what I was doing before. I guess I never really noticed it (it sneaks up on you slowly). It wasn't until I joined a soccer league a few months ago that I really realized how out of shape I was. I thought I was going to die in that first game. It's gotten progressivly better since then. Same story when I went to the gym. I went right in and tried doing my old routine. God did I feel like a p***y. I'm glad I've joined a more family friendly gym. I would have been laughed at in the old place I worked out in.


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## FusionWhite (May 8, 2007)

Is anyone else completely incapable of doing pushups and/or pullups? Even when I was working out like a fiend I couldnt do pushups for crap (even right now Im in decent shape and can only do about 2 sets of 25). I could maybe knock out 30 before collapsing in a heap, even though I could benchpress the hell out of some weights. I probably couldnt even do 1 pullup right now. And no I dont have girly arms (no offense Fraz).


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## DVINNY (May 8, 2007)

It's like a car, power to weight ratio.

When I'm 255 lbs. (off season) I can barely get 10 pullups on the first set, it's a killer

and when I'm almost show ready and weighing 210-215 lbs. I can do pullups all day long.

Sounds to me like it's an endurance thing too for you, if you're burning out at 25 push-ups, but there is nothing wrong with that, you're still working the muscles. It really doesn't matter if you burn out at 10 reps, if you're going to failure, then your breaking down that muscle tissue


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## Capt Worley PE (May 8, 2007)

Pushups just kill my elbows. Always have. I guess I'm doing them wrong...


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## FusionWhite (May 8, 2007)

People always tell me to work my chest to get better at pushups. I dont think thats the problem though because where Im feeling the "weakness" when it comes to doing pushups is in my shoulders. Which leads me to think its an issue with my form but its a freaking pushup, how hard is it to get the form right.

Sapper by the way the reason I brought this up is that I use the Army PT standards as a measuring stick to my general physical fitness. I can belt out situps all day and can nail the 2 mile run no problem but those damn pushups kill me.


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## frazil (May 8, 2007)

FusionWhite said:


> And no I dont have girly arms (no offense Fraz).


&lt;--These girly arms used be able to do 2 finger pull-ups! :thumbs: That was when I was climbing a lot. Now I'm sure I couldn't do 1. :sniff:


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## benbo (May 8, 2007)

VtEnviro-

10% body fat!!??? Are you some kind of freaking Lance Armstrong? I think my left nostril has 10% body fat.

Notice my judicious use of "freaking" to avoid the f-bomb (per another thread). Not only is this website motivating me to start exercising, but it is improving my manners as well.


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## DVINNY (May 9, 2007)

WOW, that's what EB.com is fudgin' all about!!!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 9, 2007)

> VtEnviro-10% body fat!!??? Are you some kind of freaking Lance Armstrong? I think my left nostril has 10% body fat.


No, but I am pretty picky about what I eat and the majority of the exercise I get is cardio fat burning exercise rather than a bulking up type of workout. I've read a healthy male in my age range should have 8-20% body fat.

I also have a fairly fast metabolism. So when I am very active I need to eat a lot to keep the pounds on.


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## MA_PE (May 9, 2007)

I'm on the beer and fried food diet and it shows. I revert to a line stolen from a friend (pointing to oversized gut) "It's fun fat, I just have a lot more fun than you do."


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## JohnNevets (May 9, 2007)

My favorite was when a bunch of us where let know there would be a big Rugby alumni game and told we should try and get into shape. A friend replied "Circles are shapes, right?"


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## Dleg (May 9, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> ... I really just don't like fast food. Makes me feel crappy. If you eat garbage, it stands to reason you will feel like it too.


You obviously haven't given fast food a fair chance. You get used to it. It grows on you.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 9, 2007)

> It grows on you.


Literally and figuratively.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 17, 2007)

So it was rainy by me yesterday, so I was stuck running on the treadmill at the gym. I hate those contraptions, they are soooo boring. I can barely tolerate half an hour on those things before I go stir crazy.

Fortunately, yesterday I found something to keep me motivated a little longer. A well endowed young lady in a low cut tank top on the treadmill next to me. :bio: I think I coulda run a marathon on that thing!


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## MA_PE (May 17, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> So it was rainy by me yesterday, so I was stuck running on the treadmill at the gym. I hate those contraptions, they are soooo boring. I can barely tolerate half an hour on those things before I go stir crazy.
> Fortunately, yesterday I found something to keep me motivated a little longer. A well endowed young lady in a low cut tank top on the treadmill next to me. :bio: I think I coulda run a marathon on that thing!


Were you lucky enough to be facing a wall with floor to ceiling mirrors? This helps reduce the "stare" effect. (I'm told)


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 17, 2007)

Ohhhh yeahhh. :bio:


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

Everything you describe is very normal. You should gain some weight until your body stabilizes itself, then the gains will come a little slower. You're strength will ramp up like that at first too, enjoy it while its doing it, because it too will level out and the increases will be smaller.

As far as the shoulder, are you doing barbell inclines? if so stop them. Do only dumbells for inclines or no inclines at all for that matter. Barbell inclines are very bad for shoulders and WILL (not may) cause an injury at some point. It's a long explanation, but they are no good. It puts the shoulder in an unnatural situation.


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

SapperPE said:


> Any other exercises to avoid?


Any thing else popping and hurting? LOL.

Brief explanation: the inclines w/ barbell lock your grip to a place on the bar, and as you push up, your arms extend out causing the bicep to elongate at the same time the shoulder is contracting. The bicep attachment is located on the shoulder and this causes a pull-pull effect on that joint where the bicep and shoulder attachments are working against each other. When doing dumbell inclines, the bicep doesn't elongate because your hands now move in an arching motion at the top instead of forcing your hands apart from each other like the bar does.

Clear as mud?


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

I would suggest not doing barbell military presses for the same reason. (overhead shoulder press with bar)


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

SapperPE said:


> Chest: Bench press, butterfly machine (butterflies), dumb bell press, pushupsTris: Dips, pull down on the rope on pully thing(push downs), pushups, bench press, dumbell thing where you lay on your back and put the dumbell over your head and lift up (eyebusters/skullcrushers).
> 
> Bis: Curls with the squiggly line bar seated(EZ-curls), curls with the straight bar standing, dumbell curls, lat pull downs
> 
> ...


I hope the info in blue helps bring your GYM RAT vocabulary up to speed. :laugh:


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

Looks like a good mix, are you doing the training schedule that we talked about?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 17, 2007)

> (bent over Dumbell)


Tmck's here? Where?


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## frazil (May 17, 2007)

What if you don't want to gain weight? I'm not working out like Sapper (by the way, that's awesome that you're doing all that). I'm just doing a lot of reps with pretty low weights a couple times a week and running a lot. It seems like as soon as I start doing any serious running I gain 5 lbs and it doesn't come off until I stop running. I would like to lose those 5 lbs while still running as much.


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## DVINNY (May 17, 2007)

fraz,

don't even get on a scale. I'm sure you've heard it before, but its very true. If you're trying to lose "weight" your more than likely really wanting to lose fat. That is two different things.

If you gain 5 lbs. but your clothes are getting loose, is it really a bad thing? Plus, anytime you start a program, your body will try to adapt, and sometimes that is by putting on water, etc. It's not a big deal, if you stay with the program for 6 weeks+, it will all level out, and the results will follow.

That said:

1. running is great for cardiovascular health, terrible for fat loss

2. diet is 90% of it, exercise and sleep is the rest.

3. lots of reps, low weights doesn't "tone" while heavy weights low reps "bulk", it's a myth (refer to #2)

Sapper,

Sounds like you are doing great considering the circumstances. And it's OK to train at different times of the day, it's good really, and nothing wrong with moving those rest/training days around. That's good for variety too. The sleep is the only tough thing in your case. Keep at it bro!


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## cement (May 18, 2007)

SapperPE said:


> That is very interesting. It makes sense now that you explained it. Nothing else is hurting, but that was starting to concern me. I am glad I asked. I actually was hesitating on asking because I didn't want to sound like a pansy.
> Here are the exercises I am doing. Keep in mind my options are limited because we don't have a state of the art gym, as you can probably imagine.
> 
> Chest: Bench press, butterfly machine, dumb bell press, pushups
> ...


That is an impressive workout Sapper, you are sure to see results with that. I have to admire you making the most of your situation there :laugh:

It's funny, after my second big wreck skiing this season (I think I'm having a mid life crisis or something  ) when I was rehabbing my shoulder they told me not to do military presses like DV said. I think that lat pulldowns behind the head are bad too, but are OK if you keep the bar in front.

After the third wreck, they told me not to do leg extensions w/ weights again ever, that I risk pulling out the bone grafts that hold my nice new ACL in place. :th_rockon: which kind of sucks because the extensions are a great balance after squats/leg presses.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (May 19, 2007)

It's raining here today. Dammit!

Saturdays are my day to do my longer training rides. I think I'll either take out my old clunker mountain bike if it's just drizzly later, or hook my road bike up to the trainer and "ride" it in the living room.

I despise using that trainer but it comes in handy during the 2 consecutive months of rain it seems like we get here.


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