# Sandy



## Capt Worley PE (Oct 23, 2012)

> The worst case scenario for the East Coast involves Sandy paralleling the coast from Florida to the Carolinas this weekend before being drawn inland over the mid-Atlantic or New England early next week.
> 
> While the Southeast coast would face heavy rain, strong winds and rough surf, far more serious impacts await communities from Virginia to Maine if this solution pans out.
> 
> ...


http://www.accuweath...t-tropic/546066


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## Master slacker (Oct 23, 2012)

I thought the thread title would have led to a certain word oprah made famous...


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## Supe (Oct 23, 2012)

The important thing is that it misses me.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 23, 2012)

My parents have a Chihuaha named Sandy. It's a crazy little bitch...


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 23, 2012)

^ LOL


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## Capt Worley PE (Oct 30, 2012)

> NEW YORK (AP) -- The effects of the superstorm that flooded parts of the city are lingering into Tuesday and likely will for much longer, with a large swath of the city out of power, subway and vehicle tunnels flooded, and the financial district closed for a second day.
> 
> A fire destroyed at least 50 houses overnight in Queens' flooded Rockaway peninsula and forced the rescue of about 25 people from an upstairs apartment. Officials weren't immediately able to pin down the cause of the blaze.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPERSTORM_NYC?SITE=AP&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&amp;CTIME=2012-10-29-21-19-48


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## Ble_PE (Oct 30, 2012)

I noticed that they stopped calling it a hurricane before it made landfall due to some technicalities over it's shape or something, so the article I read this morning called it Superstorm Sandy. Can't believe they are capitalizing the S.

However, I hope that everyone that is in an area being affected by Sandy is safe.


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## Freon (Oct 30, 2012)

Maybe more appropriate in the "Funny Picture" thread...


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Oct 30, 2012)

It was pretty nasty but we got through Round 1 without too many issues last night. Luckily, I still have power. Mostly just large tree limbs down where I am.

Not looking forward to when the storm hooks back to the northeast as the models show it going pretty much right over me. It won't be as intense by then, but it will still be windy and we'll get nice and soaked.


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## Supe (Oct 30, 2012)

Much like MS, I'm not impressed.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Oct 30, 2012)

I saw patches of blue sky earlier, but it's starting to go downhill again. The wind is screaming out there.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2012)




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## roadwreck (Oct 30, 2012)

As a former resident of the Gulf Coast, is it wrong of me to want to laugh at the people of New York like they laugh at us when we would get a "Blizzard". C'mon people, it was only a Cat 1 storm, based on the news coverage you'd think the world were coming to an end.


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## FLBuff PE (Oct 30, 2012)

roadwreck said:


> As a former resident of the Gulf Coast, is it wrong of me to want to laugh at the people of New York like they laugh at us when we would get a "Blizzard". C'mon people, it was only a Cat 1 storm, based on the news coverage you'd think the world were coming to an end.


It soumds as if you, too, are not impressed.


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## roadwreck (Oct 30, 2012)

FLBuff PE said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > As a former resident of the Gulf Coast, is it wrong of me to want to laugh at the people of New York like they laugh at us when we would get a "Blizzard". C'mon people, it was only a Cat 1 storm, based on the news coverage you'd think the world were coming to an end.
> ...


I guess I'm a little tired of reading headlines like "Unthinkable Devastation" when there have been storms that have been much much worse then this one.


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## Capt Worley PE (Oct 30, 2012)

roadwreck said:


> FLBuff PE said:
> 
> 
> > roadwreck said:
> ...


I can't see why tunnels that are below sea level flooding are unthinkable devastation. That's usually the FIRST thing I think when I hear a storms gonna hit some city with stuff below sea level.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Oct 30, 2012)

I think the majority of the "devistation" stems from the fact that these regions are not prepared for the storms the same way other regions are. 2" of snow here makes the commute to work suck a little bit, but it will shut down operations in other areas because the DOT's and cities don't have the snow plows, de-icers, or properly equipped vehicles to work through it. Adding to this is the fact that the local vegetation isn't used to these events. A tree in CO is used to handling several inches of snow and heavy winds fairly regularly. That's not to say branches still dont break and fall, but they typically do so when they are smaller.

Honestly, how many people in NC have Northface jackets, studded snow tires, and snow boots? Probably the same amount as those of us in CO and UT with extra sheets of plywood lying around to board up our windows during storm season.


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## MA_PE (Oct 30, 2012)

when you have as many people living as closely together as they do in NYC, flooding of the underground mass transit system is quite a problem. If trucks are unable to bring fresh supplies into the city, it's a problem. The news might be laying on the hyperbole a bit, but as a locale where a fair number of national television shows emanate from the disruption of the storm effects and constant airing of the storm remnants on these national shows makes it a "national" problem.

Closing the NYSE has international implications. Storm categories are based on wind speeds. Although Cat 1 winds would be the lowest on the scale they are sufficient to cause a lot of problems in such a desnly populated area.


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## roadwreck (Oct 30, 2012)

^^

I understand that. But the effects that are being felt were not unexpected and certainly not "Unthinkable".


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## blybrook PE (Oct 30, 2012)

I have to laugh at the news coverage this thing is getting. I really do. It goes to show how the outside states worry so much about little storms. Maybe I'm being a little cynical, but toughen up people!

Recently, Anchorage had winds of 120mph + that knocked out power to 150,000+ residents for 4-5 days with temps right around freezing. I know that it didn't make any headlines outside of Alaska; it may have been a minor quip in someones news report. People were prepared with generators and alternative heating devices to stay warm, then were out cutting up the trees to help the utility crews cleanup the damage. That same storm caused severe flooding of several rivers, washing out sections of roads, the railroad tracks and prevented supplies from making it into the state (as well as getting distributed). Did we shut everything down and hide? nope, we went to work as it was another day. And to think, Anchorage is the most densely populated city in the state!

Things don't shut down around here for a wind storm, heavy rain, or even some ice storms. Thanksgiving last year put 1/4" of solid ice on all the roads that did effectively shut things down since no one could drive anywhere without tire chains on their rigs; but that didn't even make headlines like these storms in the lower 48 do. I drove to town to get some supplies and found most of the stores were still open since most employees could make it in by walking to work. That didn't help those living further out, but nearly everyone I know is prepared to survive for at least a week without having to drive anywhere.

People need to be prepared to live in their surroundings for more than a day. Be prepared for a week or two of no-power, no trips to town, no roads, etc... Have a backup generator for powering necessary electrical items, have a stocked pantry with canned goods, have tools to cut up any trees that may be blocking your road.

I'm not talking about the survivorist methodology or thinking; I'm just saying basic preparedness. Be able to rely on yourself.

The excess news on this "storm" is just hype, as a nation, we have survived much worse and will continue to do so; we don't need a minute by minute play of what is going on.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 30, 2012)

At least the storm has stopped the politicing for a day....which is why this storm is getting so much coverage...trying to make it political with the elections coming up.

wait alaska is part of the US? you don't all live in igloos ;-)


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## engineergurl (Oct 30, 2012)

As someone who has lived as far north as the Adirondacks (beyond Watertown NY)... and as far south as Alabama... I can stay none of the storms impact the different areas the same. It's not about the storm itself. Trust me, I've lived in areas that have gone thru blizzards, ice storms, tornados, hurricanes and tropical storms.

I don't think it's very fair to laugh at anyone about stuff like this when there are people's whose lives have been greatly impacted and some have lost everything. I'm sure returning to your home once it has been completely destroyed is devestation to anyone, and I don't think it matters to those people if it was a Cat 1 wind, or a fire, or a tornado or a tree that fell over because of the ice and snow load.

And Bly- your arguement is pretty invalid because in a city like that, you can not rely on yourself. You can't have back up generators and most people that live in the city don't own lawnmowers let alone chainsaws...


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## Capt Worley PE (Oct 30, 2012)

Dexman PE said:


> Honestly, how many people in NC have Northface jackets, studded snow tires, and snow boots?


I get where you're going, but that isn't a good comparison because that isn't uncommon in the western part of the state.


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## blybrook PE (Oct 30, 2012)

The politics never seemed to really stop, sure rally's got cancelled; but the calls and news advertisements didn't!

I do have to laugh at the news coverage it's getting and that's the point I was trying to make. I've lived in different parts of Michigan and then in different areas in Alaska. Yes, the storms are different in each location; but the news blows them considerably out of proportion. Here's another example from my time in the lower 48 growing up, Michigan's UP gets 2-3 feet of lake effect snow at a time and it's just another day where people go about their lives with no or minimal power outages (2-3 hours) and just a quip on the local news networks. Detroit gets 4-6 inches and it shuts the city down since no one can go anywhere and the power is out for a week; they get national news coverage for hours on end. Part of my life was on the outskirts of Flint and I did spend plenty of time working in Detroit and it's suburbs. There were plenty of people that had backup supplies to get them through a storm or disaster period. I remember for a few years that Detroit was sending their snow removal personnel to Marquette (in the UP) to learn how to properly move snow in an urban area.

EG- You can rely on yourself everywhere you are. Just because you are crammed into a dorm room like setting doesn't mean you get lazy and just rely on someone else to bail your ass out. You just have to be creative.


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## MA_PE (Oct 30, 2012)

c'mon Bly. I realize this is not the apocolypse but look at the number of states/people invloved. You can't seriously compare Anchorage, AK with NYC.



> that knocked out power to 150,000+ residents for 4-5 days with temps right around freeze


compare that to 2.3M in NYC alone. (see below). Not to mention the fact that NYC is home to corporations and organizations that affect business and economies worldwide. People are people and no one should suffer, but you can't compare an event in anchorage AK with something that affects the entire eastern seaboard.

from:http://news.yahoo.com/state-state-look-east-coast-superstorm-111025193.html

The massive storm that started out as Hurricane Sandy slammed into the East Coast and morphed into a huge and problematic system, putting more than 8.2 million homes and businesses in the dark and causing at least 33 deaths in the U.S. Here's a snapshot of what is happening, state by state:

CAROLINAS

North Carolina Gov. Beverly Perdue expanded a state of emergency to western North Carolina, which could see a foot of snow. A woman who was pulled from the Atlantic after abandoning a tall ship died. Power outages: 6,600.

CONNECTICUT

The Long Island Sound flooded roads as the storm toppled trees and power lines Two people died, including an Easton firefighter who was killed when a tree fell on his truck. Power outages: More than 615,000.

DELAWARE

Nearly all residents of flood-prone coastal communities in Kent County heeded calls to evacuate. The Rehoboth Beach and Dewey Beach resort communities were flooded. Power outages: More than 45,000.

ILLINOIS

High wind warnings and a lakeshore flood warning are in effect Tuesday and Wednesday in Chicago. City officials said Lake Shore Drive is expected to remain open.

KENTUCKY

A winter storm warning is in effect for three southeastern counties until Wednesday. In some areas, winds could gust up to 50 mph through Tuesday.

MAINE

Wind gusts topped 60 mph, shutting down the port of Portland and knocking out power to homes and businesses. Power outages: More than 86,000.

MARYLAND

Floodwaters swamped touristy Ocean City. In western Maryland, snow tied up traffic. Two people were killed, including a man who died when a tree fell on a house in Pasadena. Power outages: 290,000.

MASSACHUSETTS

Strong winds and heavy surf led to mandatory evacuations in sections of coastal Dartmouth and Fall River and voluntary evacuations in other coastal communities. Power outages: About 290,000.

MICHIGAN

High winds knocked out power to about 79,000 homes and businesses.

NEW HAMPSHIRE

Politicians canceled visits to the presidential swing state on Monday. Power outages: 210,000.

NEW JERSEY

The center of the storm came ashore Monday evening near Atlantic City, which was cut off from the mainland by the storm surge along with other barrier islands, stranding residents who ignored warnings to evacuate. A tidal surge sent water into the streets of two northern New Jersey towns, setting off a frantic rescue effort. At least three deaths were reported. Power outages: More than 2.3 million.

NEW YORK

A record storm surge that was higher than predicted along with high winds damaged the electrical system and plunged millions of people into darkness. Utilities say it could be up to a week before power is fully restored. A fire burned 50 houses in one flooded section of Queens. There were 17 storm-related deaths, 10 of them in New York City. Power outages: 2.3 million.

OHIO

The Cleveland area and northeast Ohio were being slammed with rain and high winds. Snow was reported in some parts south of Cleveland and south of Columbus. Power outages: More than 250,000.

PENNSYLVANIA

Wind and flooding closing more than 200 bridges and roads. Four people died, including an 8-year-old boy who was killed when a tree limb fell on him. Power outages: 1.2 million.

RHODE ISLAND

Howling winds and storm surges forced mandatory and voluntary evacuations in low-lying and coastal communities. Providence's hurricane barrier performed well in one of its biggest tests. Power outages: 115,000.

TENNESSEE

Snow expected in higher elevations, where a freeze warning has been issued. High winds expected in many areas.

VERMONT

Winds knocked down trees and power lines, and schools were closed. Power outages: More than 10,000.

VIRGINIA

Utilities brought in crews to help restore power after high winds and snow. A curfew was ordered Monday on Chincoteague Island. Two people died in storm-related traffic accidents. Power outages: More than 180,000.

WASHINGTON, D.C.

Federal and local governments will remain closed Tuesday along with the courts, public schools and the Metro system that serves 1.2 million weekday customers. Power outages: 25,000.

WEST VIRGINIA

Some areas are buried under more than a foot of snow. A woman was killed in a traffic crash. Power outages: More than 264,000.

WISCONSIN

A village along Lake Michigan suggested residents evacuate Tuesday morning because of the possibility of dangerously high waves and flooding.


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## roadwreck (Oct 30, 2012)

^^

And yet I don't think I've seen any coverage beyond what's happening in NYC in the national news.


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## blybrook PE (Oct 30, 2012)

Granted, there is a major population difference between Alaska and NYC.

I'm looking at the bottom line of what constitues a major storm. 120+mph winds is a major storm anywhere, did the one that hit Anchorage get the same national news coverage as a wind storm of 80+ mph winds anywhere along the eastern sea board? No, it did not. Does one storm affect as many people as another? Sure it can.

Look at my second example with the snow fall. The UP gets FEET of snow and minor, local news coverage. Detroit gets several inches and gets national news for it.

Why is that? It's population density and the mentality that higher density population areas are more important than the lower density areas. News is news, it shouldn't matter where you live or how dense of a population you live in. If the news van can't get to where you live since it is a low population area, then it's not important to them or the rest of the nation; this in itself is a laughable matter.


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## Lumber Jim (Oct 30, 2012)

extensive news coverage during the calamity and then the first thing that people in a highly populated area say is "Lumber Jim...where's my dolla?"


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## Wolverine (Oct 31, 2012)

With the way the storm molested most of New England, perhaps they should have called it Hurricane Sandusky?

[too soon?]


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Oct 31, 2012)

Um...State College, PA isn't in New England.


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## MA_PE (Oct 31, 2012)

Not for anything but neither is NY or NJ

Wolv: change "New England" to "the Northeast" and you're good to go.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Oct 31, 2012)

Nobody confused where I grew up with New England, despite the fact that it only took 15 minutes to get there.


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## csb (Oct 31, 2012)

Storms are wiggity wiggity whack!


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## MA_PE (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok. If I hear or read the word "devastate" or any of its derivatives again associated with a news report on this storm I'll be........well...devastated.


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## engineergurl (Oct 31, 2012)

yeah, you would think people in broadcasting would have a better grasp on changing up the description... even a 7th grader could click on the synonyms function of Microsoft word and come up with more words than them...


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## roadwreck (Oct 31, 2012)

I thought this was pretty cool


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## blybrook PE (Oct 31, 2012)




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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 1, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> Ok. If I hear or read the word "devastate" or any of its derivatives again associated with a news report on this storm I'll be........well...devastated.


Unimaginably so?


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 1, 2012)

So is the fuel situation really that bad in the NE, or is it more media hype?


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## snickerd3 (Nov 1, 2012)

gas jumped yesterday from $3.18 to $3.48. This morning is was back down to $3.29.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 1, 2012)

we're still in the $3.50 range.


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## roadwreck (Nov 1, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> So is the fuel situation really that bad in the NE, or is it more media hype?


I can see how, because of the lack of power for many areas, the fuel shortage could be a real problem, that combined with the difficulty of accessing some areas for fuel deliveries.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 1, 2012)

$3.19 this morning.


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## wilheldp_PE (Nov 1, 2012)

I read a story about the fuel situation today. It said that a lot of gas stations are closed because they don't have power. The lack of supply due to the closed stations has made the stations with power run out of fuel. The largest refinery in the area is shut down, but the article I read said that they store enough fuel on site to withstand a shutdown of up to 1 week. So no, the situation isn't that bad, but a perfect storm (pun intended) of circumstances has led to a real shortage.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 1, 2012)

This looks like shit.

/&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/10/hurricane-sandy-after-landfall/100396/


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 1, 2012)




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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 1, 2012)

Do not Youtube Wreckless Eating.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 2, 2012)

An e-mail from a friend of mine:



> You can't blame O for this. All those taxes NY pays and the state doesn't have an emergency plan? People don't have any supply reserves? One week warning too (granted weather people 'Cries Wolf' on every storm). FedEx and Home Depot were able to fly goods into Haiti day after earthquake a few years ago. People are too dependent on the government.


I gotta say, I somewhat agree with him.

I did enjoy the little pizzing match between the mayor of Atlantic City and Christie. Too bad people's lives were at stake.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 2, 2012)

friend in NJ is still without power. His wife and new baby head to PA to stay with her parents until power is back on.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 2, 2012)




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## Dark Knight (Nov 2, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


>


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 2, 2012)

There was quite the conversation this morning on ESPN's Mike &amp; Mike over the NYC Mayor's decision to run the marathon. Too many resources are necessary to pull off an event like this that would be much better applied towards the rebuilding effort.


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## Wolverine (Nov 2, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine said:
> ...


GFY, both of you. You live north of the Mason-Dixon line; far as we care down here, that's New England.

...damn Yankees... ruinin' what I thought was a good chuckler. Came up with that one myself, I did.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 2, 2012)




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## csb (Nov 2, 2012)

Dexman PE said:


> There was quite the conversation this morning on ESPN's Mike &amp; Mike over the NYC Mayor's decision to run the marathon. Too many resources are necessary to pull off an event like this that would be much better applied towards the rebuilding effort.


It brings in $350M worth of revenue to the city, much of which isn't destroyed. I say hold it.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 2, 2012)

csb said:


> Dexman PE said:
> 
> 
> > There was quite the conversation this morning on ESPN's Mike &amp; Mike over the NYC Mayor's decision to run the marathon. Too many resources are necessary to pull off an event like this that would be much better applied towards the rebuilding effort.
> ...


I disagree.

1) It sends a terrible message as to priorities

2) It diverts resources needed elsewhere

3) It increases traffic into a city with huge problems already

4) Where are the folks gonna stay whose hotels are without power?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 2, 2012)

Wolverine said:


> MA_PE said:
> 
> 
> > VTEnviro said:
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Says the guy who shows his business socks to a gal in Boston...


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## Flyer_PE (Nov 2, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> csb said:
> 
> 
> > Dexman PE said:
> ...


I've seen a couple of statements that, if true, are problematic at best and damning at worst:

1. The're bringing in generators for the marathon with enough capacity to power something like 400 homes. While I understand that portable generation like that just can't be connected to those theoretical homes, the guys that write the headlines don't have the first foggiest clue and neither do most of the people that will read said headlines.

2. Marathon workers are turning away residents from porta-potties they are setting up for the marathon. Residents are forced to do their business in the woods.

3. They're kicking locals out of hotel rooms to make room for people associated with the marathon.

This is shaping up to be a train-wreck of epic proportions.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 2, 2012)

What about all of the police officers needed for security that would otherwise be providing protection to businesses under the threat of looting?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 2, 2012)

Possible Nor'Easter next week...just what we needed.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 2, 2012)

I saw that. Temps expected to drop to the 30's, winter storm to blow in, and worst of all is the fact that non-union workers from out of state there to help are *allegedly* being turned away.


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## Flyer_PE (Nov 2, 2012)

I've seen it reported in a few places that line crews from Alabama have been turned away since they are non-union.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 2, 2012)

A friend of mine's parents live in Huntsville AL. She called him and said their work crews had been turned back because they weren't union.


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## Flyer_PE (Nov 2, 2012)

Heck of a job, Bloomie!


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## MA_PE (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey, the people that are turning them away would be the same "heroes" of 911 that have been seeking compensation for all that they went through since that mess go cleaned up.


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## engineergurl (Nov 2, 2012)

regardless, so much for the "No _bureaucracy_, no red tape"...


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## csb (Nov 2, 2012)

Flyer_PE said:


> Capt Worley PE said:
> 
> 
> > csb said:
> ...


I can see this. The generators were brought in before all this happened, because, just like other large events, the media people need so much power. I'm guessing that the marathon workers are used to kicking homeless people out of the port-a-potties too. People in parts of New York returned to work yesterday (a friend included) and even the teachers reported today. That means people are being expected to travel for normal activities. I'm still thinking the potential of having a group of people come to town who are bringing expendable income with them can't be all bad. Heck, Atlantic City opened 12 casinos today.

I'm still going to have to think about this one.


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## FLBuff PE (Nov 2, 2012)

Why don't they cancel the Knicks game tonight and put cots on the floor so people have somewhere to sleep and stay warm? Why are the Giants playing at the Meadowlands (in NJ) this weekend? Couldn't all the resources that go into those events also be put towards the recovery from Sandy?


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 2, 2012)

It's hard to wath or get to the game when power is out and mass transit is a mess. I'll probably watch the Knick game tonight, but I'd be fine with it being postponed. Have them play in February when Miami is in the area to play Brooklyn or Philly.

Regarding the Giants, it's tough to reschedule a football game, but I don't see why they couldn't play at a neutral site somewhere.


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## Freon (Nov 2, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> csb said:
> 
> 
> > Dexman PE said:
> ...


Captain W - I tend to agree. Bad symbolism. But those little toys they call "generators' are not going to fix the problems. Bring in the "Big Boys"; USACE, NavFAC, 2nd Fleet, II -MEF and KBR. Fix the problems and put a few IBEW reps in cuffs on a flight to Gitmo...(My Sister is an IBEW Rep -Take her too - please)


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## Road Guy (Nov 2, 2012)

I would think they would postpone the NYC Marathon but I dont know if maybe the event is in a part of NYC that wasnt effected as bad?

Doesnt part of the route go over two of the bridges that were closed??

I cant help but think that NYC probably has enough staff to handle this type of emergency better than most other citiies, but the outlaying areas may be messed up worse and those type jursidictions may not have enough staff..

Glad its a decision that I dont have to make!

All I know about NYC is what I saw on Home Alone 2, and wha John Rocker told me


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## engineergurl (Nov 2, 2012)

Freon said:


> Captain W - I tend to agree. Bad symbolism. But those little toys they call "generators' are not going to fix the problems. Bring in the "Big Boys"; USACE, NavFAC, 2nd Fleet, II -MEF and KBR. Fix the problems and put a few IBEW reps in cuffs on a flight to Gitmo...(My Sister is an IBEW Rep -Take her too - please)


http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118416

This is all I have heard about... doesn't seem like all that much.


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## Road Guy (Nov 2, 2012)

there is some constitution rule that prevents the US Military from assisting in full force unless the Gov / Mayors relinquish control to the Feds.. which is why the National Guard exist...

seems that it could be updated, theres lots of assets that the US Military has to make these type situations more habitable than the civiliians are going to have at their disposal..

I think this was revelaed in Katrina also.. which is why it takes days to assemble NG troops from other states when you really need help..

I got to work Hurricane Andrew [ I think that was the name] (the one that took out homestead, FL) when I was a Georgia NG. reallly one of the most rewarding times I spent in uniform.. driving down the Florida Turnpike locked and loaded because Miami's finest criminals were raiding the water and supply trucks that were sent in with the relief effort..


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## mudpuppy (Nov 2, 2012)

engineergurl said:


> regardless, so much for the "No _bureaucracy_, no red tape"...


It's not the gov't, it's the unions. They'd have Bloomberg's head on a pole if he forced the power companies to let nonunion workers touch the electric grid. Not to mention they'd stop working and grieve the heck out of ConEd.


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## csb (Nov 2, 2012)

Dear Baby Jesus,

Thank you for allowing me to live in a right-to-work state.

Regards,

csb


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## Flyer_PE (Nov 2, 2012)

Looks like the marathon is a moot point. It's been cancelled.


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## Master slacker (Nov 2, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> An e-mail from a friend of mine:
> 
> 
> 
> > You can't blame O for this. All those taxes NY pays and the state doesn't have an emergency plan? People don't have any supply reserves? One week warning too (granted weather people 'Cries Wolf' on every storm). FedEx and Home Depot were able to fly goods into Haiti day after earthquake a few years ago. People are too dependent on the government.


1) I feel sorry for those being without power, water, gas, yada yada... currently living in sub-standard conditions.

2) People are f***ing stupid sometimes. If there is a storm that you see once every 100 years and has a decent chance of coming your way, you f***ing *prepare for it*. You buy water, fill your tub, buy gas jugs and fill them, and BUY CANNED FOOD! If nothing else, it'll soften the blow of the conditions for a period of time. What's the worst that'll happen? You spend $500 in one go on stuff that'll take weeks to use if the storm doesn't hit? Nah, I'll save the $500 and risk being in a 3rd world for a month.  For Katrina, those who are smart got out or prepared. They didn't wait for Willy Wonka to bus them out. They just went. Those who aren't smart didn't get out. Everyone knows what happened after that.

3) "Hindsight is 20/20!!!" This is true, but hurricane projected paths are known long before land fall.

4) You can bet your ass that if I had several days warning that a Nor'easter were to blow through south Louisiana I'd stock pile wood, charcoal, blankets, water, gas, etc...

5) Union arrogance... cutting your nose off to spite your face. What a cancer. Enjoy the lack of power and the cold for longer than you would otherwise. I hope you voice your opinions to the powers-that-be in this fuster cluck.

6) I certainly hope those living through this mess will learn from it and prepare for all sorts of forecasted events in the future.


----------



## IlPadrino (Nov 2, 2012)

Why not always be prepared for at least a week of self-sufficiency? 3 cases of MREs (which seem to never expire), 50 liters of water, and enough books to stay entertained for the entire family. Maybe even a 5 kW generator to keep your cell phone charged. But New Yorkers are hardly living a third world life!


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## engineergurl (Nov 2, 2012)

Master slacker said:


> 1) I feel sorry for those being without power, water, gas, yada yada... currently living in sub-standard conditions.


Do you, really? Personally, I'm not too concerned with thouse living in sub-standard conditions. I'm concerned with those who lost their homes, who lost their loved ones while trying to get out, who stayed safe but are now trying to figure out where to go from here... sure some are out power, water, gas, yada yada... others are still under water, lost all their cherished things, lost loved ones...granted, it may be scaled down then other natural emergencies that have happened in our country, but SOME people have lost everything.



Master slacker said:


> 2) People are f***ing stupid sometimes. If there is a storm that you see once every 100 years and has a decent chance of coming your way, you f***ing *prepare for it*. You buy water, fill your tub, buy gas jugs and fill them, and BUY CANNED FOOD! If nothing else, it'll soften the blow of the conditions for a period of time. What's the worst that'll happen? You spend $500 in one go on stuff that'll take weeks to use if the storm doesn't hit? Nah, I'll save the $500 and risk being in a 3rd world for a month.  For Katrina, those who are smart got out or prepared. They didn't wait for Willy Wonka to bus them out. They just went. Those who aren't smart didn't get out. Everyone knows what happened after that.


Senario- Let's just say....

I'm a singal gal, I'm living in a studio apartment, I have no bathtub (so therefore, I can't fill it), I have no storage space in my apartment, so I don't normally stock up, but since a storm is on it's way, I buy some canned food... vienna sausages, crackers, stuff like that... now I have the opportunity to get out... but when I tried to all the public transportation was packed, and I can't afford anything else, so I go back home, call my folks and tell them 'I'm just gonna wait it out'. Then I head to the store and buy four gallons of water and hope for the best....

Seriously Dude? Have you EVER been to NYC? Have you ever been to Long Island? Do you have any concept of how many people live in a single city block?

And don't even bring up freaking Katrina. Yes, that was a disaster, it was devestating. But you know what, a lot of people didn't get the flip (I had to edit that word) out, and I know what happened after. People like my husband waded thru water, and went thru houses and found dead bodies. They spent months there. Great Corporations stepped in to help. Personally, I haven't seen a single advertisement from Tide showing that they would be setting up trucks where people could do their laundry like I saw with Katrina. I haven't seen lines of Walmart trucks, and I haven't seen corporate America step up to take advantage of the NYC and NJ people like they did down in the Gulf... hmmmm (no comment)...



Master slacker said:


> 3) "Hindsight is 20/20!!!" This is true, but hurricane projected paths are known long before land fall.


Considering I am VERY far south from where it finally hit and I prepared, I am not so sure you watched the news... less than two days before, they were predicting it would hit in the MD/DC area... the news also said that the Boston area would take the brunt of it... they kept going back and forth between the 'American model' prediction and the 'European model' prediction and talking about that so much, who the crap really knew which one would be right and where it WOULD hit...



Master slacker said:


> 4) You can bet your ass that if I had several days warning that a Nor'easter were to blow through south Louisiana I'd stock pile wood, charcoal, blankets, water, gas, etc...


There will never be a Nor'easter blow thru Louisiana. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that the weather there was kinda simlar to what I experienced in Alabama... and I'll tell you this much. Charcoal isn't going to do you any good, it's too cold outside to cook out there and you aren't going to use it indoors... oh and let me see you try and find it in a northern state after September. Wood will come in handy, as long as you live in a house with a fireplace... if not you are SOL there. Since I assume you do have a fire place, have fun lugging it in the 2+ feet of snow since you probably didn't stack it near the house (with Louisiana being susiptible to termites and all), I'm sure you will be wrapped up in your blanket to go out and get it.... but then, your blanket will be wet and it won't do you a lick of good after because... last time I checked, wool blankets (or pants, or socks) aren't owned by many down south.)



Master slacker said:


> 5) Union arrogance... cutting your nose off to spite your face. What a cancer. Enjoy the lack of power and the cold for longer than you would otherwise. I hope you voice your opinions to the powers-that-be in this fuster cluck.


Since you already brought up Katrina... I very much remember some states getting assistance... and not others. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. And I'm sure the people who don't have power REALLY had some say in if the people who helped them were Union or not... that's politics dude, not humanity... stop being an a$$.



Master slacker said:


> 6) I certainly hope those living through this mess will learn from it and prepare for all sorts of forecasted events in the future.


I'm sure they will, and since this is the first time NYC/NJ has been hit by this kind of thing, I'm sure next time, they will be smarter... wait... how many hurricanes hit the gulf coast?

Seriously, everyone needs to stop being so smart and start being a human being. I'm sorry, but this 'our response would have been better', or the attitude 'we would have delt with this better' is starting to get to me. Who cares. There are PEOPLE impacted here. People like me and you.

I am proud of my high school friends who still live up there who are communicating thru facebook posts to arrange hot showers and rides and getting each other to work via facebook and twitter. I'm proud of my friends that have set up charging stations outside of their homes. I have a very distinct feeling that the country isn't going to pull together like we've done for other weather events that have struck our nation, but I personally am seeing people helping people, and that might not be on the news, but it is happening.

Right now, I'm just thankful that I have heard from my family and friends from the area, and that they are alive.


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## engineergurl (Nov 2, 2012)

I want to say I am sorry for the rant, and the bad spelling. I was emotional. I really just don't understand why we (as in EVERYONE) aren't looking at this from the view that 'people need help' ...'lets help'.... I am slowly becoming very negative...


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## roadwreck (Nov 2, 2012)

Flyer_PE said:


> Looks like the marathon is a moot point. It's been cancelled.


I don't have a problem with the marathon being canceled, but I do wish they had made that call a little earlier. Most of the participants (including a few people I know) have already made their way up there for it.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 2, 2012)

roadwreck said:


> Most of the participants (including a few people I know) have already made their way up there for it.


What better way to maximize profits? Get everyone to pay for everything without actually going through with the expense of doing it. Brilliant!!!


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## Master slacker (Nov 2, 2012)

engineergurl said:


> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 1)
> ...


Yes, I am. I'm just sorry you don't see it that way because I didn't explicitly state every last loss scenario.



> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 2)
> ...


Yes, seriously. And, yes, I have been to NYC, and NJ, and LI. Several times each. Yeah, I know. Big whoop, "several times". Anyway, I stated "it'll soften the blow of the conditions for a period of time". So you don't have a tub. You have cups, glasses, a sink, anything else that can hold water. And no, I'm not being an ass about that. If you can avoid the lines and gun-waving for two days, wouldn't that be worth the effort of filling up your sink? Do what you have to do to have *some* of the necessities.

I brought up Katrina because there are parallels between these two disasters. About your corporate helpers, don't think for a minute that no one is going to step up to help out.



> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 3)
> ...


Um, Katrina only gave New Orleans about two days warning before it got a direct hit. Regardless of which model would be correct, option 1 should still be "GTFO".


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## Master slacker (Nov 2, 2012)

engineergurl said:


> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 4)
> ...


It'd be too cold to cook outdoors? Hmm. Also, I have a wood deck. My 80 year old house is pier and wood beams. I have wool blankets, parkas, rubber boots, full rain gear (to get my firewood through the two feet of snow), etc...



> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 5)
> ...


Don't blame me for the lack of assistance to other states. That's the decision of the "powers-that-be" I mentioned. And the union thing IS ALSO for the "powers-that-be". If the local governing bodies and unions could drop the whole union-only crap for one week, everyone would be better off. That's why I urged the voicing of opinions. Has anyone in this thread ever called their representatives? Or emailed them? Or written them a letter? Yes, it is politics. That was my flippin' point. 



> Master slacker said:
> 
> 
> > 6)
> ...


So... people should be prepared for forecast dangers? Hmm. If I got that wrong, what were you trying to say in that last part?


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## engineergurl (Nov 3, 2012)

why are all your quotes of my quotes of your quotes blank?

dude... my point off all that was have some compassion. You might not be impressed, but people are still hurting...


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## Master slacker (Nov 3, 2012)

I eliminated my quotes b/c there was just too much text otherwise.

I do have compassion. See my first statement. And if you don't believe me, see my response to your response of my first statement. For the third time in as many posts, I feel sorry for those hurting from the storm.

There are reasons I donate to Red Cross and Salvation Army. Since I can't always "physically help" in situations such as these, my charities use my donations to help when / where needed. Now take that chip off your shoulder.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 3, 2012)

roadwreck said:


> Flyer_PE said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the marathon is a moot point. It's been cancelled.
> ...


I live in the greater NY metro area. There were two schools of thought here. One was cancel it, the other was run it and use it as a diversion and source of revenue. My preference was the latter, but I can understand the former. It is going to be abnormally cold this weekend, so it wouldn't have been ideal anyway.

I feel badly for all the runners that get deprived of being able to run the race. But the world class ones will just go onto race somewhere else in a couple of weeks. The ones I really feel for are the shit out of luck weekend warriors who trained for 6 months and were lucky enough to get into the race lottery and bought a plane ticket to NY and are now screwed.


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## MA_PE (Nov 3, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> I feel badly for all the runners that get deprived of being able to run the race. But the world class ones will just go onto race somewhere else in a couple of weeks. The ones I really feel for are the shit out of luck weekend warriors who trained for 6 months and were lucky enough to get into the race lottery and bought a plane ticket to NY and are now screwed.


Agreed but cancelling was probably the best option. Maybe Boston will open up their policies and let them race here in April. Airlines seem to be cutting folks some slack on fees and non-refundable tickets (they should, freakin' bahstuds).


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## roadwreck (Nov 3, 2012)

Dexman PE said:


> roadwreck said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the participants (including a few people I know) have already made their way up there for it.
> ...


Yea, that really bothers me. Most people seem to be touting the move as being pretty brilliant because you don't utilize all the resources to put on the race but you still manage to squeeze some of the money out of the participants. I do wonder how they are going to handle the cancellation Most events like that have a zero refund policy. In this case do they refund people's entry fee (for an event like that it's probably $200). Or do they allow you to register for future races for "free"? In the grand scheme of things it's a pretty small concern, I am sure a lot of people decided not to run the race even if they were already registered. I know that running a marathon is a huge commitment both financially, mentally and physically. This is one of the premier marathons and as such attracts runners from around the country and around the globe. I feel like it was a huge disservice to tell everyone the entire week that the race will be run and then cancel it at the last minute.

Given the circumstances losing the money for registering and getting to New York really doesn't matter that much. Having spent weeks training for an event only to be told at the last minute it won't happen isn't that big a deal either. I just feel like the situation was handled really poorly and I'm upset they didn't cancel the race earlier in the week so that people didn't arrive there to find the event won't happen.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 3, 2012)

> dude... my point off all that was have some compassion. You might not be impressed, but people are still hurting...]


I'll agree with this one.

Seeing as they are still searching for bodies in Staten Island, the Jersey Shore is a mess, lower Manhattan and the south shore of Long Island are a mess, and I can't find gasoline, I don't care if you are impressed or not, just shut up.


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## YMZ PE (Nov 3, 2012)

> I do have compassion. See my first statement. And if you don't believe me, see my response to your response of my first statement.


Part of having genuine compassion is not saying intentionally hurtful things while people are still in the middle of piecing their lives back together after a disaster. Emotions and stress are high right now. If you're aware of this and continue to say things to piss people off because you think it makes you sound smart, your "compassion" is hollow.


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## Master slacker (Nov 3, 2012)

People have opinions and I voiced some of mine. Good or bad, I will keep the rest to myself.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 5, 2012)

Well, it looks like as a country, Sandy has taught as that maybe we need to start looking at preparing to be self suffiecient for a week or two. Shoot, even the DHS is promoting it with their zombie attack thing.

My wife went through Hugo in 89, and she prepared for it for a few days before hand, and it made a huge difference in how they made it through.

Look around, see what you need to do to live out of the house for a week or two with no power, no water, and no assistance. Then, every week, buy a little something to ease you towards a two week supply.

Then, maybe look at stocking up longer. Look at making a bug out bag for your car, in case you have to hoof it all of a sudden.

Nothing wrong with being prepared. And there are a lot of prepper/survivalist sites out there to help you.


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## Road Guy (Nov 5, 2012)

a guy in my neighborhood is up in NY helping his parents right now, from getting his wifes FB updates, there still without power and running water.. marines just now showed up a week afterward.. ..


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## mudpuppy (Nov 5, 2012)

I have to admit I'm not very prepared for something like this at home. However, there is a very small risk of hurricanes, earthquakes and floods here in MI. Our biggest risks are tornadoes (in which case my house is SOL anyway) and ice storms. Though thinking about it I probably could make do with my camping gear and the store of food I usually have. I do need to pick up a water filter though. Maybe I should put that on my Christmas wish-list.

Thing is working for an electric utility I assume if there are major power outages I'm going to have to work anyway and they'll probably send me somewhere out-state. So my contingency plan is my company will take care of me. And even if the snow gets so deep my Jeep won't make it (unlikely), I can always ski my way into work.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm not nearly as prepared as I should be. And you never know when some hacker might get lucky and shut a large part of the grid down.


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## snickerd3 (Nov 5, 2012)

between the case of MREs, what we keep in the cabinets and the water jugs for the bubbler...as long it wasn't in the middle of winter we would be good for about a week.


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## MA_PE (Nov 5, 2012)

It's a double-edged sword situation. One hand if it's avaliable, people should find an alternate place to go (relatives?) until the infrastructure is restored, on the other hand you want to stay with your home/stuff tp proptect it and do something to try to fix things. It's really quite a dilemma and my sympathies to all those people that are going through it.


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## roadwreck (Nov 5, 2012)

Anheuser-Busch is sending Bud Light... ...errrrr... ...I mean water, to areas impacted by Hurricane Sandy.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 5, 2012)

Bud Light is like having sex in a canoe - f'ing near water.

That Nor'easter this week is not going to be fun. Sounds like more of a nuisance than a catastrophe, but the last thing the tri-state area needs is more flooding and it will hinder relief/recovery efforts.

I'm lucky to be as far inland as I am. Though I am right on the rain/snow line which sucks.

As for me, I'm bare essentials prepared. Keep canned goods, potable water, batteries, battery powered radio so I can get updates if the power goes, spare food for the dog, and a propane camping stove to cook food before it goes bad and to heat up water. I could get by for maybe a week if need be.

The thing I learned this time, was set aside some water even if you are on city water. I've got a disinfection kit for when I camp/hike so I'd be fine if it was a boil order, but in some areas it was don't drink even if you boil it which leads me to believe it was chemical contamination rather than bacteriological. I never should have given away that pilot plant before I moved...


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## snickerd3 (Nov 5, 2012)

Friend in NJ was able to find gas to make the trip to visit the wife and baby who are in PA staying with her parents until the power is restored. No timetable has even been projected.


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## envirotex (Nov 5, 2012)

ngnrd - PE said:


> Two words for the people that are affected by SuperStorm Sandy.
> 
> 1. Personal
> 
> 2. Responsibility


I have seen lots of personal responsibility following the storm. Judging by the comments on this thread, and personal stories I have heard elsewhere from people in Rockaway. Most people are taking personal responsibility...neighbors helping neighbors, family taking relatives in...The damage is done; people ARE picking up their lives WITH the help of others; people serving others in need. Shoveling mud out of basements, checking on elderly people who were unable to leave, laying out warm clothes to dry (not washing and drying because they have no power and no water), and food trucks serving free hot meals to workers and residents who have otherwise been living on those canned goods that they took personal responsibility for and stocked up on before the storm hit...

It is your personal responsibility to help others in need...


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## IlPadrino (Nov 5, 2012)

envirotex said:


> It is your personal responsibility to help others in need...


According to what or whom?


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## MA_PE (Nov 5, 2012)

IlPadrino said:


> envirotex said:
> 
> 
> > It is your personal responsibility to help others in need...
> ...


yup. No "responsibility" to help others in need. You might want to classify it as a "moral obligation", but again you're not "obliged" to do anything. Just ask all the a$$hats that don't.


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## engineergurl (Nov 5, 2012)

ngnrd - PE said:


> envirotex said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen lots of personal responsibility following the storm.
> ...


I think MA kinda summed it up.... some people feel like it's their personal responsibility to help the unfortunate, others will look down on them and blame them for their own misfortunes and then there are the people who just ignore things and feel like it's 'not their problem'. It's going to depend on the individuals morals and how they feel.

Obviously, I get really, really annoyed and apparently come across like I have a chip on my shoulder when I feel like someone is judging another based on their misfortunes.

Depending on your take, there are 5 basic human needs. Water, Food, Energy, Shelter and Security. In today's society, we expect our government to provide the security, and our infrastructure to provide the water and energy. Our homes provide shelter and we buy food. But when someone has to leave their home and then returns to nothing, the really have lost the provisions of all 5. Even if they return and their home is still standing, their basic needs aren't all being met. I just don't feel like we should be judging those people and saying that they should have been prepared and now they need to deal with it... and if it had been us, then we would have been better off.

How every you feel or whatever your morals, I still say, it's not nice to rub salt into the open wounds of others... it's actually, kinda just mean.


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## YMZ PE (Nov 5, 2012)

engineergurl said:


> How every you feel or whatever your morals, I still say, it's not nice to rub salt into the open wounds of others... it's actually, kinda just mean.


Not to mention pointless and a sign of either poor judgment or poor character.


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## FF8256 (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm in nj and haven't had one of these storms at least in my adult life. Where I'm at there's just trees and wires down and the residents are all up in arms over loss of power. I went with my fire company to help out a shore fire department over the weekend and found their town basically a complete loss. What I've found really interesting is that events like these either bring out the worst or the best in people. There's been so much looting of electronics from boats and personal crap from houses in areas that were evacuated. Generators are being stolen from the houses upland, while people are sleeping. Then there's the side of the fence that I live on- the people with the sense of social responsibility. These people are giving away stuff, offering to help others. It's certainly not a personal responsibility to take care of others, especially when they don't help themselves. I think it's a bad idea to live below sea level of within a flood zone, but people do. I think it's a waste to rebuild those areas. But. Rubbing the salt in the wound of someone that has lost everything because they did chose to live there is wrong. But that's coming from someone that's more proud of firefighting certifications than the bs, ms, and PE combined, so I might just be screwed up.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 6, 2012)

engineergurl said:


> Depending on your take, there are 5 basic human needs. Water, Food, Energy, Shelter and Security. In today's society, we expect our government to provide the security,* and our infrastructure to provide the water and energy.* Our homes provide shelter and we buy food.


You know, it wasn't all that long ago that we provided those ourselves too. I still know plenty of folks on wells and septic tanks.

And, a lot of folks still provide their own personal security. You kinda have to out in the sticks.

Sometimes I think it made us as a country stronger to be self sufficient. I.m bad with my hands, but I remember my dad and grandad tackling stuff themselves that I know I couldn't do. The reality is I could, but I'm lazy and it isn't expedient. Point is, though, I gave up on that willingly. Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe we all shouldn't have.

But that's for a different thread I reckon.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 6, 2012)

YMZ PE said:


> engineergurl said:
> 
> 
> > How every you feel or whatever your morals, I still say, it's not nice to rub salt into the open wounds of others... it's actually, kinda just mean.
> ...


Poor raisins how my grandparents would have described it. Society has changed, and not for the better. You see it a lot more frequently, and , frankly, the media promotes it.

Again, another topic for another time. Sorry.


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## MA_PE (Nov 6, 2012)

http://news.yahoo.com/york-attorney-general-launches-sandy-price-gouging-probe-212940623--finance.html

New Yorker's answer to the sluggish economy.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 6, 2012)

The gas lines are gonna be nasty later as people fill up in advance of the Nor'easter coming in tomorrow.

We're supposed to get a nice winter mix by me tomorrow night.

Why can't a winter mix be something like a meal that includes cranberries, squash, and a hearty stew with some root veggies. It's be much more pleasant.


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## envirotex (Nov 6, 2012)

Sorry...I still think it's a responsibility to serve others in need. Even if you are morally outraged that those others have managed to get themselves into trouble in the first place.

Clearly, I am in the minority on this.


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## YMZ PE (Nov 6, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Poor raisins how my grandparents would have described it.


Southerner speak is too cute!


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 6, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> IlPadrino said:
> 
> 
> > envirotex said:
> ...


+1


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 6, 2012)

But what if you only prepared well enough to provide for yourself and your family? Would I be considered an asshat if I didn't provide help to others because the only help I have is dedicated to my family?


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## snickerd3 (Nov 6, 2012)

my NJ friends just got power back within the last 30 minutes!!!


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 7, 2012)

Here's hoping it doesn't go out again when the Nor'Easter hits. It's abnormally cold here, losing power would not be fun.


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 7, 2012)

Watching the news, I'm struck by the fact that so few people seem to have fireplaces. I'd think they'd be common up there.


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## mudpuppy (Nov 7, 2012)

It's been abnormally cold here for the past several days too. Dipping down into the upper teens at night. More like mid December weather than early November weather.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 7, 2012)

Apparently, the Nor'Easter coming here today is named Athena. When did snowstorms get names?


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## snickerd3 (Nov 7, 2012)

Just recently...like within the last year they decided they were going to start naming snow storms


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 7, 2012)

Officially snowing here.

More than I can say about last winter. Have I ever mentioned how much I enjoy snowshoeing? (I know, like 50 times, and there won't be enough for that, but I am excited anyway.)


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## Capt Worley PE (Nov 7, 2012)

Here's something that may be useful for those folks with no power, but some candles...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Candle-Powered-Pottery-Heater/


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## MA_PE (Nov 7, 2012)

Capt Worley PE said:


> Here's something that may be useful for those folks with no power, but some candles...
> 
> http://www.instructa...Pottery-Heater/


Are the three clay pots bolted together? What about the jars holding it over the candle? They are not in the suplies list. I'm confused.


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## Ble_PE (Nov 7, 2012)

^Did you click through all of the steps?


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## pbrme (Nov 7, 2012)

I like step-1 picture: _"have cat monitor the work steps.."_


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## MA_PE (Nov 7, 2012)

Ble_PE said:


> ^Did you click through all of the steps?


No I didn't see the steps. I see 'em now.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Nov 7, 2012)

You should email that link to everyone without power....oh wait.


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## mudpuppy (Nov 7, 2012)

I don't understand the purpose of this contraption. . . is it for warming your hands or something? I didn't do the greatest back in Thermo for EEs, but I'd be willing to bet the candle is going to put the same amount of heat into the room regardless of whether you put some clay pots above it.


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## knight1fox3 (Nov 7, 2012)

^ I don't think so. It's also been quite awhile since I had thermo last, but the actual flame of a candle is small and probably not able to generate much heat to the surrounding area. Mainly because what you are heating is basically air, which has a low specific heat capacity. Now take that same flame and apply it to something that does hold heat well (i.e. clay pots with a high specific heat capacity) and you have yourself a small radiator. It may take awhile to heat up, but once it is heated up, it should have the capability of heating more of the surrounding area than a small candle flame does. That's my take on it.


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## FLBuff PE (Nov 7, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> Officially snowing here.
> 
> More than I can say about last winter. Have I ever mentioned how much I enjoy snowshoeing? (I know, like 50 times, and there won't be enough for that, but I am excited anyway.)


I went for a bike ride this afternoon at lunch. Ha ha!


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## EM_PS (Nov 7, 2012)

mudpuppy said:


> It's been abnormally cold here for the past several days too. Dipping down into the upper teens at night. More like mid December weather than early November weather.


abnormal? it's supposed to be in mid 60's on Sunday - thats abnormal for November; course hard to tell anymore w/ 100 deg summers


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 8, 2012)

FLBuff PE said:


> VTEnviro said:
> 
> 
> > Officially snowing here.
> ...


I've rarely seen my dog as happy as during our walk this evening. She was one excited pup, and it's still coming down. (She has bad knees and a sad personality, so to see her all fired up was great.)


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## snickerd3 (Nov 8, 2012)

VTEnviro said:


> FLBuff PE said:
> 
> 
> > VTEnviro said:
> ...


Does your local APL do fostering? It sounds like the empress needs a buddy during the day.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Nov 8, 2012)

That's a really good idea. She loves playing with my mom's dog when I visit and could use the company.


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