# PITT leaving the Big East for the Big 10?



## DVINNY (Feb 1, 2010)

Rumor mill is flyin' big time around this area,

anyone heard anything?


----------



## OSUguy98 (Feb 1, 2010)

I haven't heard anything besides the rumors a month or two ago about the Big Ten wanting to expand and eying a few of the Big East schools, Pitt being one of them... other than that, I haven't seen anything on ESPN, nor have I heard anyone talking about it... I asked the sports-related "I hear everything first" guy here at work and he hadn't heard anything....

of course, in the "Lunch time links" blog from the Big East reporter on ESPN, the comment section mentions this... but nothing "official"...


----------



## TouchDown (Feb 1, 2010)

Missouri talking heads / message boards have said that from insiders it looks like between these three if the B10+1 decides to add one additional member:

Missouri / Pitt / Rutgers

If they decide to add 3 and go to 14 members, then who the hell knows.

It'll be probably next year before you hear anything official.


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Feb 1, 2010)

I hope they take Pitt. I'm tired of L'ville getting whooped by their basketball team.


----------



## NCcarguy (Feb 2, 2010)

I think the ACC expansion a few years ago was the worst thing this conference has ever done, and I don't see ANYTHING that's going to turn that around. I'm not sure what the attraction is? Money I'm sure....but do the numbers really work out in the long run?


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 2, 2010)

TouchDown said:


> Missouri talking heads / message boards have said that from insiders it looks like between these three if the B10+1 decides to add one additional member:
> Missouri / Pitt / Rutgers


I'd probably rank Pitt third in that final three. Rutgers would be great for East Coast exposure. Missouri would get the B10 into the St. Louis and Kansas City markets, plus their sports fit very well into the B10 (including wrestling).

With all due respect to Pitt, I don't see what they bring to the party. They are a distant second IN THEIR OWN TOWN - maybe third behind Ohio State.


----------



## chaosiscash (Feb 2, 2010)

ALBin517 said:


> With all due respect to Pitt, I don't see what they bring to the party.


Basketball credibility?


----------



## Freon (Feb 2, 2010)

In the end, it is always about the money. "Super Conferences" like the SEC &amp; Big 12 get to play the cash-cow conference championship game; they also (right or wrong) get the advantage of the additional media exposure right before the bowl selection is done. I think the Big 10 + 1 wants to get in on the action; but they need to attract a big school to make it legimate. They would love to pull in The Evil Empire (Notre Dame); but Pitt is probally thier best hope. If Mizzou does leave the Big 12; there are a couple programs that would quickly fill the void, TCU, SMU or even Boise State. As a side note, the PAC 10 has toyed with the idea of expanding for a while, but USC fights the expansion every time.

Freon

Also, Tom Osborne said that the Big 12 would be the death of Nebraska football dominance back in the mid 90s. Kind of hard to argue with the man...


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 2, 2010)

When asked about this, the PITT athletic director said something like "you shouldn't rely on internet message boards as a credible source of information, its not responsible journalism" or something along those lines.

BASICALLY, no where in that statement is a denial. he might as well have said "YUP, its true"

If PITT were not leaving, he'd of simply stated so.


----------



## Master slacker (Feb 2, 2010)

Freon said:


> As a side note, the PAC 10 has toyed with the idea of expanding for a while, but USC fights the expansion every time.


No surprise there. Like the SEC, there's always a chance to get knocked out of the national championship game during the conference champ game.


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 2, 2010)

chaosiscash said:


> ALBin517 said:
> 
> 
> > With all due respect to Pitt, I don't see what they bring to the party.
> ...


Have the Panthers won conference titles? Seriously, I don't know. But when I think of Big East basketball, they are not the first school to jump to mind - probably not the fourth or fifth.



Freon said:


> If Mizzou does leave the Big 12; there are a couple programs that would quickly fill the void, TCU, SMU or even Boise State.


One of my former Florida State classmates thinks (hopes?) that Arkansas would go to the B12 and FSU to the Southeast.


----------



## MechGuy (Feb 2, 2010)

If the Big 10 expands to 12 teams, would it still be called the Big 10?

I for one am for expansion so the conference can divide into 2 regions and have a championship game like the SEC and Big 12.

Even though I hate ND with a passion, I would vote for them as the most logical choice since they already play many of the Big 10 teams in their schedule.

As for Pitt, Missouri or Rutgers, I don't know much about any of those teams. In my mind they don't really bring anything to the conference except being a filler team.

I would vote for Missouri first, then Pitt then Rutgers....


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 2, 2010)

MechGuy said:


> Even though I hate ND with a passion, I would vote for them as the most logical choice since they already play many of the Big 10 teams in their schedule.


I think ND will join the Big East because the Irish can get whatever they want from the Big East. ND would not get any special treatment from the B10.

For example, ND might say they want a couple of their conference road games to be played in NFL stadiums, each year. Or they might want a guarantee that they never be passed over in bowl selection. I could see the Big East making these concessions but not the B10.

Plus, the Irish are already in the Big East for basketball.


----------



## OSUguy98 (Feb 2, 2010)

ALBin517 said:


> MechGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Even though I hate ND with a passion, I would vote for them as the most logical choice since they already play many of the Big 10 teams in their schedule.
> ...


I can't see the Irish giving up their damn-near guaranteed bowl spot(s).... In the Gator Bowl contract, I think they had a deal that the bowl was required to pick them once every x number of years... which usually happened over a more deserving Big East team


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 4, 2010)

I hate to inform you all that Notre Dame is ALREADY in the Big East in every sport except Football.

The Big East should force them in football or kick them out of everything else, IMO


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Feb 4, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> I hate to inform you all that Notre Dame is ALREADY in the Big East in every sport except Football.
> The Big East should force them in football or kick them out of everything else, IMO


I agree...Louisville needs a cupcake football team that we can beat every year.


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 4, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> The Big East should force them in football or kick them out of everything else, IMO



That’s like a group of fat guys telling Beyonce: “If you don’t join us for the Star Trek convention, you aren't welcome at our comic book store.”


----------



## MechGuy (Feb 4, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> I hate to inform you all that Notre Dame is ALREADY in the Big East in every sport except Football.
> The Big East should force them in football or kick them out of everything else, IMO


They're in the CCHA for Hockey, which is essentially the Big 10 with a few smaller schools.

Football and hockey are the only REAL sports in my opinion


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 4, 2010)

ALBin517 said:


> DVINNY said:
> 
> 
> > The Big East should force them in football or kick them out of everything else, IMO
> ...


maybe 20-30 years ago, Notre Dame wouldn't have finished in the top 5 of the Big East for the last however many years.. and the Big East hasn't been all that great


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 5, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> ALBin517 said:
> 
> 
> > DVINNY said:
> ...


I don't think much of ND (both now and going forward) but I think even less of the Big Least.


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 15, 2010)

The latest rumor is that TEXAS is the choice to move to the Big 10.

That would be huge all over. I don't know the extent of the truth to it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colle...,4739233.column


----------



## Supe (Feb 15, 2010)

Go ahead and send Pitt/ND to the Big 10. Just another couple of teams for Ohio State to beat up in football and basketball, Penn State to beat up in football, Illinois in basketball (or maybe even both).

Texas would make no sense to me whatsoever. Are they even on the quarters system schedule wise? Is Pitt?


----------



## MechGuy (Feb 15, 2010)

I agree Texas makes no sense. Not anywhere near the region, the travel schedule would be crazy. If the Big 10 adds another team to make 12, that school needs to be located somewhere in the midwest/great lakes area.


----------



## Freon (Feb 15, 2010)

As a Texas alum, I would hate to see them change conferences, and it makes little to no sense that they would. When the talking heads dive into the subject, they always talk about the "Big 10 money", but UT is not hurtin' for cash.

UPDATE:

Reading this thread got me interested. I went to ESPN.com; and now Nebraska has come up. It makes a better fit than Texas, and given a couple year Nebraska could dominate the "Big 10+2". (Maybe they could rename the conference "The Hypothermia 12".)

But my thought is "What about Iowa State?"


----------



## Kephart P.E. (Feb 15, 2010)

It would make little or no sense for UT to leave the Big 12. The Big 12 gives everything to UT they have ever asked for. If someone was to leave the Big 12 it would be from the North Division, you know the one the Conf screwed over in order to appease Texas.

I can see the Big 10 wanting some exposure on the coast for the conference, Rutgers has a very attractive location, putting OSU, UofM et in the NY City area would be attractive, but I don't know how well the school fits with what the Big 10 is. Mizzu would be a good fit from a school/athletic dept standpoint but has a bad location. Not on the Atlantic Coast or next to a very large city. Mizzu is in a smaller "college" town right? The Big 10+1 already has plenty of those.

At first I didn't think Pitt fit well, but now that I mull it over, they are probably the best fit. Men's basketball and Football are both pretty competitive and on the Basketball side it makes the Big 10 a powerhouse IMHO.

Out in my neck of the woods the Pac-10 is looking at expanding, I think Utah and Colorado are the main targets. People have spoken about Boise State, but their academic programs are equivalent to a very good Junior College and the Athletic Dept as a whole isn't up to snuff so to speak. BYU has been tossed around, but being owned by the LDS Church, is a huge hurdle that I don't see the University Presidents overlooking that little fun factoid. Especially after the LDS funded some very divisive legislation in California.


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 15, 2010)

Freon said:


> As a Texas alum, I would hate to see them change conferences, and it makes little to no sense that they would. When the talking heads dive into the subject, they always talk about the "Big 10 money", but UT is not hurtin' for cash.
> UPDATE:
> 
> Reading this thread got me interested. I went to ESPN.com; and now Nebraska has come up. It makes a better fit than Texas, and given a couple year Nebraska could dominate the "Big 10+2". (Maybe they could rename the conference "The Hypothermia 12".)
> ...


One thing to keep in mind with the B10 expansion is the Big Ten Network's deal with Comcast. Their contract says that Comcast will put BTN in their basic cable package for every subscriber located in a state with a B10 school. That means that if the B10 adds a school from a "new" state, Big Ten Network gets subscription money every month for every Comcast subscriber in that state.

(I've heard it's $1.10 per month, per subscriber).

That's why I don't see Iowa State, Pitt or Cinci as real possibilities - because there is more money to be made by adding a school outside of the existing Big Ten footprint, like Texas, Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers or Maryland. (I purposefully excluded Nebraska because they don't bring any big TV markets with them).


----------



## Chucktown PE (Feb 15, 2010)

On another note, I've also heard some rumors floating around about Clemson leaving the ACC for the SEC and Arkansas getting the boot from the SEC. I kind of hope that's true. With all that ESPN money floating around the SEC that would seem to be a good thing.


----------



## Chucktown PE (Feb 15, 2010)

Here's the article:

Expanding conferences could look to Clemson


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 15, 2010)

I think we are going to see some re-alignment of the conferences, but who knows what


----------



## DVINNY (Feb 15, 2010)

:wv: hasn't even been asked or looked at by the Big10, once again, we are the red-headed step child. LOL

it's a 'new' state, but Comcast only serves a small portion of our state, TimeWarner is the big cable provider here.


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 16, 2010)

DVINNY said:


> : :wv: : hasn't even been asked or looked at by the Big10, once again, we are the red-headed step child. LOL
> 
> it's a 'new' state, but Comcast only serves a small portion of our state, TimeWarner is the big cable provider here.


I'm sure BTN gets cash from each TimeWarner subscriber as well. It's just that the BTN / Comcast battle was the biggest, so I know more about the Comcast deal than any other.

But the knock I keep hearing about WVU is their academic rank. All the present B10 schools are considered Tier 1 schools. I believe West Virginia is a Tier 3. (I'm just the messenger. I neither researched these claims nor disparaged the academics of your beloved university).


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Feb 16, 2010)

ALBin517 said:


> All the present B10 schools are considered Tier 1 schools. I believe West Virginia is a Tier 3. (I'm just the messenger. I neither researched these claims nor disparaged the academics of your beloved university).


What/who determines the tiers?


----------



## Supe (Feb 16, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> ALBin517 said:
> 
> 
> > All the present B10 schools are considered Tier 1 schools. I believe West Virginia is a Tier 3. (I'm just the messenger. I neither researched these claims nor disparaged the academics of your beloved university).
> ...


Peer assessment, retention rate, selectivity, faculty, financial resources, alumni contributions are some of them. U.S News does the tiers, with 1 being highest and 4 being the lowest.

It's heralded as being pretty much a crock of sh*t.


----------



## Freon (Feb 16, 2010)

> One thing to keep in mind with the B10 expansion is the Big Ten Network's deal with Comcast. Their contract says that Comcast will put BTN in their basic cable package for every subscriber located in a state with a B10 school. That means that if the B10 adds a school from a "new" state, Big Ten Network gets subscription money every month for every Comcast subscriber in that state.
> (I've heard it's $1.10 per month, per subscriber).
> 
> That's why I don't see Iowa State, Pitt or Cinci as real possibilities - because there is more money to be made by adding a school outside of the existing Big Ten footprint, like Texas, Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers or Maryland. (I purposefully excluded Nebraska because they don't bring any big TV markets with them).



Can't argue with your logic. But I just can't see the Big 10 crafting a psckage that would pull Texas or Missouri away from the Big 12. Nebraska could be "bought" for a better price, and they have a rabid fan base.


----------



## wilheldp_PE (Feb 16, 2010)

Supe said:


> Peer assessment, retention rate, selectivity, faculty, financial resources, alumni contributions are some of them. U.S News does the tiers, with 1 being highest and 4 being the lowest.
> It's heralded as being pretty much a crock of sh*t.


The only thing that I have seen the tier system applied to a the college level is law schools. It would be kind of dumb to base athletic conference affiliations on what tier their law school falls under.


----------



## Supe (Feb 16, 2010)

wilheldp_PE said:


> Supe said:
> 
> 
> > Peer assessment, retention rate, selectivity, faculty, financial resources, alumni contributions are some of them. U.S News does the tiers, with 1 being highest and 4 being the lowest.
> ...


It goes by all their schools. If you look at the US News rankings, you can even filter by tiers 1-4. Several engineering-heavy schools fall into the top tier.


----------



## ALBin517 (Feb 16, 2010)

Supe said:


> wilheldp_PE said:
> 
> 
> > ALBin517 said:
> ...


The B10 seems to put a lot of stock in the rankings - probably because their schools are all highly ranked.

It's similar to the way PEs think it's a big deal to be a PE and PhDs think it's a big deal to be a PhD.


----------



## Supe (Feb 16, 2010)

The rankings will get you in the ballpark. When it comes to one school leapfrogging another, that's the crock, as they will manipulate the weights on an annual basis to create shifts.


----------



## TouchDown (May 10, 2010)

This report has no confirmation from any source so it could be completely incorrect and false - but essentially...

Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers = 14 in Big 10

ND is asking if they'd accept, if so:

ND and (Pitt/Syracuse) to finish 16

No one will comment officially on any of this, so it's all just speculation at this point:

http://www.810whb.com/article/3527#


----------



## mizzoueng (May 11, 2010)

Sooooo........... What is the point bringing these schools into the Big 10+1? The Big 12 has done a lot to be a more "popular" conference and has built a history. Missouri and Texas leaving the Big 12 and going to a conference that is best known for its football history, which has not produced a lot in recent years. The Ohio State is always in the top 10, but thats because they are The Ohio State, so draw your own conclusions.

I would think that other schools would want to join the Big 12 or the SEC. All of this rumor of the Big 10+1 (which is a joke in itself) talking to 5 other schools to join makes them look desperate for ratings and programs that garner national spotlight.


----------



## TouchDown (May 11, 2010)

mizzoueng said:


> Sooooo........... What is the point bringing these schools into the Big 10+1? The Big 12 has done a lot to be a more "popular" conference and has built a history. Missouri and Texas leaving the Big 12 and going to a conference that is best known for its football history, which has not produced a lot in recent years. The Ohio State is always in the top 10, but thats because they are The Ohio State, so draw your own conclusions.
> I would think that other schools would want to join the Big 12 or the SEC. All of this rumor of the Big 10+1 (which is a joke in itself) talking to 5 other schools to join makes them look desperate for ratings and programs that garner national spotlight.


College sports is a business that is built on the back of athletes it doesnt' pay.

It's all about money - TV money. That's it.

The discussion I heard wasn't Texas at all, it's been pretty well rumored lately:

Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers...

Notre Dame (if they so choose), then Pitt or Syracuse

Essentially, the Big 10 could go and pillage the Big East and force Notre Dame's hand, which essentially I think they are posturing to do. It's the teams on the West (MU and NU) that might be relavent for TV (gain other markets that aren't encompassed by the Big East schools) that would sweeten the deal.

If it happens, I think the Big East and ACC would potentially combine into a pseudo east coast grouping and the Big XII would potentially collapse and try to move west to gain more TV markets to try to negotiate a better TV deal with Utah / BYU or an Arizona school...

Again, the landscape of college football / basketball is about to change. If I were Mizzou or Nebraska, and the deal came forth, I'd jump at the chance simply because the Big XII North isn't a huge TV market alone when you look at all the schools involved - and once dominos start to fall, a few schools might get left out and have to drop to mid-major conferences once the realignments occur over the next couple years.


----------



## EM_PS (May 11, 2010)

TouchDown said:


> mizzoueng said:
> 
> 
> > Sooooo........... What is the point bringing these schools into the Big 10+1? The Big 12 has done a lot to be a more "popular" conference and has built a history. Missouri and Texas leaving the Big 12 and going to a conference that is best known for its football history, which has not produced a lot in recent years. The Ohio State is always in the top 10, but thats because they are The Ohio State, so draw your own conclusions.
> ...


True - Big 10 commish wants to push the Big Ten Network into Atlantic seaboard / New York areas - or anywhere else it'll bring back wider revenue streams to its schools.

SI has 3 scenarios:

1. Missouri comes to Big 10. They've been getting shafted in bowl selection in Big 12 for couple years now. Also, Big 10 (and SEC) distributes equal shares of its football tv revenue to its schools, whereas Big 12 weights the distribution based on the strongest teams. Win-win for Missou, except for recruiting pipelines would obviously change. In this scenario, Colorado &amp; Utah would jump to Pac 10, and Big 12 atones by grabbing BYU &amp; TCU.

2. Pac 10 gets Colorado &amp; Utah still, Big 10 gets 3: Missou, Nebraska, Rutgers. Big 12 &amp; Mountain West ... :dunno:

3. Conference amargeddon! Big 10 gets 5 teams: Missou, Neb, Notre Dame, Pitt &amp; Rutgers. ACC grabs remnants of the Big East. SEC takes Oklahoma, OK St, Texas, Texas A&amp;M. Thus have three 16-team super conferences. These conferences vote to jettison the NCAA &amp; form their own association. From this point on, the national championship will be decided by a plus-one national championship game.

Most likely scenario within next 5 yrs is guessed to be #2. It'll be interesting...


----------



## mizzoueng (May 11, 2010)

You really think that will happen? The Big 12 collapsing and dissolving into the Big East, ACC, and Big 10+1? I see the playoff system replacing the BCS before this happens. Or maybe reorganizing into uber-conferences is the first step in going to a playoff system, who knows. If the Big 12 was worried about the tv ratings of North games only, they would have better chances of first eliminating the North/South division. The championship game is still a big part of the Big 12, but could still be implemented as there is no way for all the teams to play each other. Don't ask me how, I don't know.

Notre Dame is the only school that I don't really see being all too intimidated by all this. THey have locked up TV rights for a while and seem to ALWAYS be on tv no matter how bad they suck.

I know College Football is nothing more than a business these days with the athletes being slaves to the system and never seeing a dime for their part. The revenue the schools make off selling jerseys, helmets, pictures, etc is beyond market-whoring.

EA is a good example, there is a company that essentially gets to use these kids in their video games for "free" by paying off the schools. The athlete that is on the cover usually gets little as well. I've seen lawsuits go back and forth from these athletes wanting a cut of the multi-million dollar business when it is their fame that is the foundation. Now granted I know student athletes get certain "perks" that normal students don't. In Div 1 (1A, whatever they call BCS teams these days) almost all athletes get their books covered by the Athletic Department. They are also given the chance at special tutoring that there only for them. Lastly, they get a few perks in classes as they may be traveling for sports and are given a little more leniency. Granted it is not a 5% cut of EA NCAA 2011 or a 1% cut of all revenue the sales of merchandise that sports their name, likeness, or number, but it is something that they get for being an athlete. Sometimes those little perks are worth more than the money (books are money, those stupid things are $$$)


----------



## EM_PS (May 11, 2010)

mizzoueng said:


> You really think that will happen?


No freakin' clue :wacko: .... I just had recently read this article in SI. I think Missou jumping out of Big 12 could happen...but seems like most coaches anyways (not AD's) really don't want any change.

ND won't do jack unless Big East gets pillaged cuz that is their nonfootball conference so to say


----------



## RIP - VTEnviro (May 11, 2010)

I hope Big East basketball doesn't get pillaged.


----------



## Chucktown PE (May 11, 2010)

I've heard the Big 10 will raid the Big 12 scenario. The permutation is that Texas will leave the Big 12 and go to the SEC-West. There's a win-win. They get to compete in a real conference and Texas is a good fit for the SEC, and the SEC has a monopoly on what are arguably the top 3 power house football schools in the country, maybe the top 5 depending on the year. The only hitch is that the Texas legislature won't let Texas go to the SEC without the SEC taking Texas A&amp;M. It is widely speculated that Arkansas is going to leave the SEC. The SEC will move Tennessee to the SEC-West, then they need 3 teams to fill up the SEC-East. The SEC-east would take Clemson, Miami, and Florida State. Then the SEC/ESPN have a lock on all the football markets in the southeast.


----------



## mizzoueng (May 11, 2010)

EM_PS said:


> mizzoueng said:
> 
> 
> > You really think that will happen?
> ...


Sorry, I was trying to respond to TD. My response got a little long winded and I didn't quote him. I sometimes forget my forum etiquette.


----------



## EM_PS (May 11, 2010)

heh - no worries...this stuff's more complex than the BCS!


----------



## Supe (May 11, 2010)

Pfft. The BCS is as easy as 1,2 Div/0.


----------



## EM_PS (May 11, 2010)

[No message]


----------



## TouchDown (Jun 4, 2010)

Comon... you have got to be kidding me.

Big XII meetings blowing up with new rumors floating around.


----------



## FLBuff PE (Jun 10, 2010)

CU to PAC X. Bye bye, Big XII.


----------

