# Recent Civil grad, looking for advice



## ragincajuns (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey there, new to the boards. I stumbled across these forums while doing some research on a topic, and after reading through some of the posts, I figured I might be able to get some advice from some of the more experienced and wiser people in the industry than I.

Basically, I don't know what to do with my life! I'm a CE grad from Michigan State. MSU's program doesn't have you specialize in any one discipline of Civil; rather, you're required to take a few classes in four of seven available disciplines they offer. I guess it could be called a "traditional" Civil degree. I took design classes in structures, hydrology, transportation, and pavements. What interested me the most (mostly thanks to some awesome professors I had) were my transportation classes. Since then, I've had a strong desire to go into the transportation industry - roadway design, site planning, traffic signalization, and other topics in those realms are the most exciting to me. The other areas I took design courses in were interesting of course, but transportation and roadway design was definitely ahead of the rest.

I graduated with a GPA just shy of a 3.0 (2.9, to be exact... well... okay... 2.89, whatever!  ) last December. I paid for a large, large amount of school on my own, and so I've accumulated a fair amount of student debt. This, coupled with the fact that I just wanted to do something other than school, motivated me to go out and get a job, and return to school for a Master's later in life.

While in school, I worked for a local consulting firm as a student intern for the fall season of 2008. It was a transportation firm, and I got a good taste of dealing with DOT design standards and regulations and seeing "the process" from the consulting side of a project, and also got the chance to pick up Bentley Microstation skills. Normally, the firm would have kept me, and they hired me as an intern with the intent of hiring me after graduation. However, the fall of 2008 was that lovely time when the economy tanked miserably (especially here in Michigan!), and the firm simply didn't have enough work to keep an intern busy, much less their full-time staff.

Additionally, while in school, I worked for the University facilities management division. I worked on the outdoor utility staking crew for several months before my boss brought me inside to work on the GIS system we have in place. As part of working on the GIS system, I've been involved in a flood plain study of the river that runs through campus; I've helped one of the master electricians and his boss create a long-term streetlight circuit planning map; I've done some basic survey work with GPS equipment; I've been involved in construction documentation of projects around campus; I've picked up AutoCAD, Civil 3D, and some Revit, and a ton of other things.

Armed with all of this, I went out to search for a job. Since graduation, I've applied to more jobs than I can count and have been rejected more times than I care to mention. I've done all the things you're supposed to do to get a job these days -- reaching out to people on LinkedIn, sending personal emails, using references, staying on top of contacts, etc etc. None of it works.

So, that's my story. I come here asking anyone who has advice: What do I do?

I'd be happy to provide more information if anyone ends up being interested. Thanks in advance.


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## roadwreck (Aug 2, 2010)

open a dive shop in the Florida Keys


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## Road Guy (Aug 2, 2010)

hey thats my fallback!


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## bezzy (Aug 2, 2010)

Road Guy said:


> hey thats my fallback!


These are challenging time!

Have you tried open positions overseas? Not a bad start for junior engineers.

If you don't wanna go overseas and can't get a job in engineering, I would apply to pursue my Master's till find a job. When you get a job, you may do the Masters part time.


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## Road Guy (Aug 3, 2010)

if you already have a decent amount of student loans I wouldnt recommend getting the Masters just yet (unless you want more debt)

Basically the Obama administration is holding up any future transportation bill so he can hand out the "stimulus money" to states he likes and hold it over other states heads (or at least thats what a US Senator told a group of us down here in Georiga) But I think Michigan is fairly Obama country.. So unless states have their own funding sources until Congress / White House sign a new transportation bill there isnt going to be a lot of money coming out for transportation..

For example say a state pays X into the federal gas tax they should get most of that money back since its collected as a tax by people who drive through that state, instead its all going into the "stimulus" and not being spent the way it should.. i.e it gets laundered legally up in washington for other 'stuff"

Anyways, I would get the ENR top 50 and look up every one of their website employment seections, there is some work out there but you may have to move, theres a huge design build going on north of miami in florida, I have seen a decent amount of advertisements for work on that project (just an example)

good luck!


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## ragincajuns (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, both humorous and serious!

While I've looked nationally, I've mostly applied to positions around the Midwest -- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin. I've found a fair amount of jobs that I qualify for, but I've yet to make it past a first-round interview.

Let me ask a blunt question: With my GPA and experience, -can- I get a job in this economy? My experience so far is that I can't. I've had to go up against folks applying for entry level positions who already have 10 years of experience and their PE. That's happened to me on two separate occasions, and in many others, the "the other guy had more experience" explanation has been given when asked why I didn't make the cut.

I've been debating on-and-off the idea of a few graduate programs. Most recently I've been debating law school. I imagine there's a fair bit of law-related work a Civil could go into, but I don't know too much about civils who go into law. Any advice on that front?

Again, thanks in advance for any and all advice.


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## Road Guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I dont think GPA really matters, the average Civil grad's gpa is a 2.7. But its going to hurt going up against someone with experience, especially 10 years)

have you looked at anything in local government or state government? 5 years ago they couldnt get inmates to take some of those jobs, (which provide really useful experience)


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## ALBin517 (Aug 3, 2010)

ragincajuns said:


> Thanks for the replies, both humorous and serious!
> While I've looked nationally, I've mostly applied to positions around the Midwest -- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin. I've found a fair amount of jobs that I qualify for, but I've yet to make it past a first-round interview.
> 
> Let me ask a blunt question: With my GPA and experience, -can- I get a job in this economy? My experience so far is that I can't. I've had to go up against folks applying for entry level positions who already have 10 years of experience and their PE. That's happened to me on two separate occasions, and in many others, the "the other guy had more experience" explanation has been given when asked why I didn't make the cut.
> ...


If you already have a bunch of student loans, law school is not the answer. One of my coworkers went part-time and graduated MSU Law around 2005, but he kept working here for another couple years afterward. Every local offer he got was too much of a pay cut.

Not many lawyers get into law for the money any more.

I've noticed a better return on investment (time and money) with the MBA.

Not to mention, civil is generally considered to be the worst of the engineering disciplines for law. One main reason is that other disciplines have MUCH more patent work.


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## ALBin517 (Aug 3, 2010)

ragincajuns said:


> Thanks for the replies, both humorous and serious!
> While I've looked nationally, I've mostly applied to positions around the Midwest -- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin. I've found a fair amount of jobs that I qualify for, but I've yet to make it past a first-round interview.
> 
> Let me ask a blunt question: With my GPA and experience, -can- I get a job in this economy? My experience so far is that I can't. I've had to go up against folks applying for entry level positions who already have 10 years of experience and their PE. That's happened to me on two separate occasions, and in many others, the "the other guy had more experience" explanation has been given when asked why I didn't make the cut.
> ...


You might want to consider going for a job where YOU are the one who is overqualified. We had a new MSU civil grad take our full-time inspector position a few years ago. He paid some bills, increased his knowledge and built experience for the PE exam. After about a year here, an engineer position opened up in northwest Michigan, where he was from. He also would have probably fallen into a full-time engineer position here if he'd stayed another 18 months.


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## MGX (Aug 3, 2010)

Some here would argue against it but have you considered a job as a technician / inspector?

I've seen a few openings for bridge inspectors in the Midwest and the pay seems to be about the same as an entry level engineer.


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## Chucktown PE (Aug 3, 2010)

I wouldn't go to law school. There are way too many lawyers graduating from law school right now and their salaries indicate that. My cousin's husband is graduating next year at the top of his class and is having a tough time finding a job.


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## snickerd3 (Aug 3, 2010)

MGX said:


> Some here would argue against it but have you considered a job as a technician / inspector?
> I've seen a few openings for bridge inspectors in the Midwest and the pay seems to be about the same as an entry level engineer.


I ditto the idea to find something at least related or willingness to relocate. I still have a college friend with an engineering degree who works at the neighborhood big box store because he was not willing to relocate...8 yrs later.


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## Chucktown PE (Aug 3, 2010)

You could always try medical school. That's what I'm probably going to end up doing.......8 years after I graduated.


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## ALBin517 (Aug 3, 2010)

MGX said:


> Some here would argue against it but have you considered a job as a technician / inspector?
> I've seen a few openings for bridge inspectors in the Midwest and the pay seems to be about the same as an entry level engineer.


Some engineering firms essentially require field experience for entry-level engineers. One place that I worked - if they hired an engineer who graduated in May without field experience, the guy had to work as an inspector for the duration of the construction season before they could come inside and design anything.


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## ALBin517 (Aug 3, 2010)

MGX said:


> Some here would argue against it but have you considered a job as a technician / inspector?
> I've seen a few openings for bridge inspectors in the Midwest and the pay seems to be about the same as an entry level engineer.



Not to mention, a lot of those Midwest inspector jobs are 60-80 hours per week during the summer. With those kinds of checks and no time to spend them, you can quickly pay off some loans.


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## EnvEngineer (Aug 3, 2010)

One issue I see with new engineers is having a resume that tells the company what they can do and what they want to do. Too often there is a list of classes and/or a line or two about what they did and not enough detail to set them apart from other applicants.

I am not saying this is the magic bullet but in this economy you need all you can get. Your experience seems very detailed for just starting out just make sure you blow that horn loud on your resume. I would also suggest attaching some examples of your cadd or other work.


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## pavell (Aug 17, 2010)

hey guys. i am also contemplating an MS.

what are your guy's opinion on the general MS in civil engineering (no specialty).

im scared about pigeon hole'ing myself in one area.


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## jeb6294 (Aug 17, 2010)

I posted one entry level job in the jobs section that showed up on USAJobs in Columbus, OH. I also just saw this one.


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## EM_PS (Aug 17, 2010)

have you tried Aerotek? they were hassling me couple weeks ago about needing bodies down in Cleveland for some structural opportunity (requires relocation). There is work out there, you _really_ have to be willing to accept what's out there in terms of role &amp; relocation.


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