# BSMET.... What To Do Now, BSCE or MSCE



## dh13 (Apr 30, 2013)

Hello Everyone:

So here is a little background on myself.

I recently graduated with an ABET accredited BSMET (Mech. Eng. Tech) degree and I passed the FE Exam. I have been working as a manufacturing engineering for almost a year now. Prior to graduating, I was working in the civil/transportation/pavement management fields as an intern for a municipality. Overall, I managed to accumulate about four and one half years of experience from this internship.

I know it seems weird that I would pursue a mechanical degree when I was working in the civil field. In hindsight (which we all know is 20/20), I should have switched majors and gone civil… The past is the past... So that brings me here - posting on this forum…

After a year in industry, I am realizing that I enjoyed what I did during my internship, more so than I do working in the manufacturing industry. Also, add in the fact that I have a technology degree, which from what I have noticed (at least in my area) does not hold much value, or though it seems.

I am considering going back to school, problem is, I do not know which path to take. Basically, I have thought of two different options, as far as returning to school is concerned.

*Option 1* – Go back to school and get another BS. I would be going back for a BS in Civil.

*Option 2* – Go back to school and get a MS. I would be going back for a MS in Civil.

I know another BS seems redundant, but I am afraid that my technology degree will still haunt me and hinder my ability to pursue employment with some agencies, even with a MS.

So I guess my first question is, does anyone have a technology BS and a MS?

Does the MS completely replace the BS in terms of seeking employment?

I would assume that a BS will provide a more overall look at civil engineering topics, where a MS will focus specifically on a certain aspect of civil, is that correct?

From what I have been told, a PE is more important in civil than a MS, can anyone confirm or deny this statement?

In my state, those with technology degree are eligible to take the FE and PE Exams. Those with technology degrees need an additional 2 years of experience for a total of 6 years in order to sit for the PE Exam. That being said, I know that I can sit for the PE either way.

I want to see if anyone else has done what I am thinking about doing and I want to hear about the experience. I am also looking for information/opinions on what to do in this situation.

Thanks


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## MA_PE (Apr 30, 2013)

dh13 said:


> *Option 1* – Go back to school and get another BS. I would be going back for a BS in Civil.
> 
> IMHO, even if you do not complete a civil BS degree you will need some undergrad civil courses such as soil mechanics, etc. that are typically not part of the ME program. Fundamental courses will depend on which aspect of civil that you want to focus on.
> 
> ...





dh13 said:


> Does the MS completely replace the BS in terms of seeking employment?
> 
> as stated above I think it will minimize any impact.
> 
> ...





dh13 said:


> From what I have been told, a PE is more important in civil than a MS, can anyone confirm or deny this statement?
> 
> For civil often a PE is needed if you want to advance in your career. If you have an MS the PE should be that much easier to obtain.
> 
> ...


I hope that helps.


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## dh13 (Apr 30, 2013)

MA_PE:

I have been talking with a few schools about applying for a civil MS. Some schools provide a list of classes that need to be completed prior to applying for the program, if you do not have a BSCE. However, some schools will not even take the time to tell me what classes I might need before applying. And one school told me that I could apply and complete the classes after I was accepted into the program, while taking masters level classes, as well.

I have no problem taking undergraduate civil classes to prepare for a MSCE. Honestly, I feel some undergraduate classes would give me a better foundation.

So it sounds like the MS might be the way to go…. Anyone else have anything to add?


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## MA_PE (Apr 30, 2013)

dh13 said:


> I have no problem taking undergraduate civil classes to prepare for a MSCE. Honestly, I feel some undergraduate classes would give me a better foundation.


sounds like you don't really have a choice and without that foundation, the MS classes would be pretty difficult as you'd need to learn the pre-requiste material on your own.

I hope it works out well for you. and don't just dismiss that BSMET credential, it'll give you insight that civils don't have becasue they've never been exposed to that material.

Good luck with the endeavor.


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## Lomarandil (Apr 30, 2013)

Presuming you can find an MSCE program that will admit you without having to take an unreasonable number of BSCE courses (some are fine, but I wouldn't want to complete the entire program), definitely go for the MSCE.

More than half of a BS in Engineering or Engineering Tech is learning how to think. You've got that part down.

Lo


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## Krakosky (Apr 30, 2013)

For what it's worth, I have a BS in mechanical and got my MS in civil with a concentration in structural. I didn't have to take any additional civil undergrad courses and I didn't feel behind or underprepared. My work experience is all mechanical too.


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## solomonb (Apr 30, 2013)

My BS is in EET-- I never felt inferior with engineers. Now, I went on and got graduate degrees in engineering (SYstems and Industrial), however, the EET degree never was a hinderance.

In order to be successful and make decent grades in another degree program, you will probably need some foundational classes. You need the foundational classes to be sure that you understand the principles of the graduate classes. The best bet is go and talk with a professor at the school where you might consider doing your work. This might be more of a challenge, however, there are professors who will be happy to help you-- you will have to try harder.

When I was in graduate school the second time-- we had a grad student who was a Phi Beta Kappa in English, Phd from Ivy League school who busted tenure at the institution I was attending. He came to industrial engineering, took the bare minimum of IE classes to get into graduate school and ultimately earned a Phd in Industrial Engineering. Sadly, he busted tenure as an engineering professor as well. I don't know what ever happened to him-- however, suspect that if taught, he did not teach at an R1 institution. He busted tenure twice in two completely different disciplines.

My point is that you can do this-- just carefully plan the trip before you begin to save you some unnecessary detours.


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## Dleg (May 2, 2013)

The MS options sounds best, but be very careful - not all schools offer and ABET-accredited MS Engineering program. In fact, many "big" schools do not. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there is some big obstacle to getting ABET certification of BOTH a BS and MS program, so most schools opt for the BS program only. (someone please correct me if I am wrong).

At any rate, an ABET accredited MS will get you anywhere you want to go in your career. I am guessing that will require several of the civil BS courses as prerequisites. If the program you are interested in does not, look carefully and get confirmation from the school that the MS is actually ABET accredited.

Good luck!

EDIT: Yep - I just checked on ABET's website - a search for accredited MS programs in Enviro Eng. (my field) yielded only 4 programs across the entire U.S. - and none of them even Top 10!!!

Civil Engineering has only ONE ABET-accredited Masters program! And that's at University of Louisville, Kentucky, if you're interested.

Hmmmm...... in light of that, finishing an ABET-accredited BS might be more important for you. ABET accreditation comes up a lot for certain purposes, such as licensing, federal jobs, etc.


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## dh13 (May 2, 2013)

Lomarandil said:


> Presuming you can find an MSCE program that will admit you without having to take an unreasonable number of BSCE courses (some are fine, but I wouldn't want to complete the entire program), definitely go for the MSCE.
> 
> More than half of a BS in Engineering or Engineering Tech is learning how to think. You've got that part down.
> 
> Lo




I am in contact with the director of the CE department at the school I received my BS from. From the conversation that I had with him yesterday, the number of BSCE classes that I have to take will be dependent on my concentration.

What is the tipping point as far as the number of BSCE classes?



Krakosky said:


> For what it's worth, I have a BS in mechanical and got my MS in civil with a concentration in structural. I didn't have to take any additional civil undergrad courses and I didn't feel behind or underprepared. My work experience is all mechanical too.




I think this is where my concern is, the difference between my situation and your situation is, you most likely have a BSME, correct? I feel that the “T” on the end of my BS will still be viewed in a different light…



solomonb said:


> My BS is in EET-- I never felt inferior with engineers. Now, I went on and got graduate degrees in engineering (SYstems and Industrial), however, the EET degree never was a hinderance.
> 
> In order to be successful and make decent grades in another degree program, you will probably need some foundational classes. You need the foundational classes to be sure that you understand the principles of the graduate classes. The best bet is go and talk with a professor at the school where you might consider doing your work. This might be more of a challenge, however, there are professors who will be happy to help you-- you will have to try harder.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the advice. My ears are open and I am trying to figure this out before I lose my head! I have not slept for the past few night because of this. 



Dleg said:


> The MS options sounds best, but be very careful - not all schools offer and ABET-accredited MS Engineering program. In fact, many "big" schools do not. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there is some big obstacle to getting ABET certification of BOTH a BS and MS program, so most schools opt for the BS program only. (someone please correct me if I am wrong).
> 
> At any rate, an ABET accredited MS will get you anywhere you want to go in your career. I am guessing that will require several of the civil BS courses as prerequisites. If the program you are interested in does not, look carefully and get confirmation from the school that the MS is actually ABET accredited.
> 
> ...




I know that accreditation at the BS level is mandatory, but does that actually hold true for the MS level? From what I have heard, this is not a huge issue.

On a side note, I have been researching a few schools. From what I have found, there are a few schools that provide a list of classes that one needs to take in order to be prepared for a MSCE if they do not already have a BSCE. The University of Utah requires:

Ordinary Differential Equations (Complete)

A Statistics Class (Complete)

Physics w/Calculus (Complete)

Statics (Complete)

Strengths (Complete)

Hydraulics (Need)

General Chemistry 1 (I have chem., but on the quarter system which is probably different)

Plus a few (from one to six classes) depending on focus.

I am sure I will have to take Fluid Mechanics again. I have this feeling because I took the MET section of Fluid Mechanics and Technology sections are not accepted by other schools. I did however take the straight ENGR sections of Statics, Dynamics, and Strengths, so I am good there.


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## solomonb (May 2, 2013)

OK, let's go slow. This is not worth losing any sleep over. IT IS NOT! You have the BSMET-- it is what it is. Now, the follow-on is the same-- you will need some courses for the BSCE and the MSCE. The MSCE is going to require that you have all of the necessary foundational courses before they let you into graduate courses. If they don't do this, then you will struggle to the point where you will drop out with nothing.

Visit with the advisor at your school. He/She will have an idea of what you need. I would expect that UTAH is probably like 99% of the other schools-- that being said, you at least have an initial starting solution on what you are going to need. There is no reason to lose sleep over this-- if you need what they say, ok, let's go. Besides, you don't want to not do what is needed, you will struggle and not understand the fundamentals well. That is the worst possible scenario.

Don't be tricked into believing that you may skip some foundational courses. Yes, you may be able to do so, however, if you are weak in that area or need some additional stem work, then take the class. It is better to have what you need and do well, then flounder and struggle because you don't have some foundational courses.

This may appear impossible now, however, break it down into bite sized pieces, it will be very doable.

Good Luck.


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## Dleg (May 2, 2013)

dh13 said:


> Dleg said:
> 
> 
> > The MS options sounds best, but be very careful - not all schools offer and ABET-accredited MS Engineering program. In fact, many "big" schools do not. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there is some big obstacle to getting ABET certification of BOTH a BS and MS program, so most schools opt for the BS program only. (someone please correct me if I am wrong).
> ...


Apparently it is not a big deal for the MS. But it may be a big deal for the BS, depending on the state you want to be licensed in. I know a few people with BS degrees in other fields than engineering (e.g. math, physics) who went on get an MS (non-ABET of course) and who are now PEs. So it can be done. They did tell me that they had to take a lot of undergrad engineering pre-requisites though. Most schools that value their reputations will ensure that you have the basics covered before they grant you an MS. So it's probably a good path to take - just check the rules for your state for licensing requirements.


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## MWC PE (May 7, 2013)

I would say the BSCE would be a better option. Jumping from Mechanical ET to graduate level Civil Engineering classes would be extremely hard IMO. I have both a BSCE and MSCE, I think you would be lost if you tried to jump right in and any school that was willing to let you is probably just after your cash.

IMO the BSCE has a higher chance of success (lower risk) and about the same benefits for your resume (equal reward). I wouldn't say having a MSCE has substantial helped me, it did shave off 6 mos for the PE which was why I did it part time at work. Depending on which state you applying in the BSMET + MSCE might not qualify you for the PE exam as most require a ABET BSE in the field you are taking the exam in.


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## dh13 (May 10, 2013)

MWC PE said:


> I would say the BSCE would be a better option. Jumping from Mechanical ET to graduate level Civil Engineering classes would be extremely hard IMO. I have both a BSCE and MSCE, I think you would be lost if you tried to jump right in and any school that was willing to let you is probably just after your cash.
> 
> IMO the BSCE has a higher chance of success (lower risk) and about the same benefits for your resume (equal reward). I wouldn't say having a MSCE has substantial helped me, it did shave off 6 mos for the PE which was why I did it part time at work. Depending on which state you applying in the BSMET + MSCE might not qualify you for the PE exam as most require a ABET BSE in the field you are taking the exam in.




I think you hit the nail on the head here. This have been my dilemma since I started thinking about going back to school. Everything I read when applying for jobs and or examinations say that you need an EAC of ABET degree to qualify unconditionally. Which makes it seem like, even if a person was to have a MS, but had a TAC of ABET degree (like my MET degree) that would not be enough in some cases. Just something I have to think of more, I guess.

The point you make about the PE is what has always scared me (in terms of only being able to get my PE in certain states). In my current state, I can sit for the PE exam with 6 years of experience. From what I can tell from reading the requirements for the PE exam, I could get my PE in CE even with a MET degree, as it is based on the experience more so than the degree. The requirement is having an engineering degree, not necessarily the field that it is in (this is what I gather from reading my states' requirements).

On the other hand, I did talk to the director of the CE program at my school. He was interested in my work experience from the municipality that I worked for and wanted a good overview of what work I performed. He said that I would need to take few UG level classes and that he would work up a list for me in the next couple weeks. There is also a possibility for a TA or RA through the department.

I definitely have some thinking to do!


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