# Which Pen to use for Signatures on Mylars



## What!!

I was wondering which pen to use to sign on Mylars. Our projects contain 100+ sheets where we sign. So we need to have a pen which is permanent and dries out instantly. I have been using Staedtler Pigment liner and has 4 varieties of thickness (0.1, 0.3, 0.5 &amp; 0.7 mm). But it takes about 1 minute to dry out completely. Will Sharpie work?

What do you guys think.


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## maryannette

Try Sharpie Ultra Fine Point. I think that works.


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## roadwreck

After you stamp and sign the sheet put a post it not over the stamp (not the sticky part) then move onto the next sheet in the stack. This helps to prevent the stamp and signature from smearing on the back of the page before it.


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## kevo_55

I've never signed on mylar but as a general rule I always sign in blue pen.

I don't want clients to photcopy calculations that I have sealed and try to pass it off on other projects!!


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## Dleg

^^Very good point! I have caught several people doing that on permit applciations around here, and I always give a courtesy call to the original engineer to let them know. 9 times out of 10, their client (or another engineer) was trying to re-use another set of plans for a new project.


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## SSmith

kevo_55 said:


> I've never signed on mylar but as a general rule I always sign in blue pen.
> I don't want clients to photcopy calculations that I have sealed and try to pass it off on other projects!!


How does this work exactly?


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## kevo_55

^^ It's as simple as completing one job and then your soon to be ex-client photocopying the sealed drawings and calculations to use for another similar project.

It has never happened to me but one client actually tried to preform their own engineering calculations on something by using our submitted calculations as a guide.

Rule #1 is to protect your seal!!


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## Guest

kevo_55 said:


> Rule #1 is to protect your seal!!


Very good point!! 

JR


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## Desert Engineer

kevo_55 said:


> ^^ It's as simple as completing one job and then your soon to be ex-client photocopying the sealed drawings and calculations to use for another similar project.
> It has never happened to me but one client actually tried to preform their own engineering calculations on something by using our submitted calculations as a guide.
> 
> Rule #1 is to protect your seal!!


I think he meant, how does blue ink protect you?


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## Guest

Desert Water said:


> I think he meant, how does blue ink protect you?


blue ink = original and not photocopied. 

JR


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## RIP - VTEnviro




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## MA_PE

Seeing as how mylars are meant to be reproduced I'd think that the extra time letting the ink dry is worth the effort to maintain a good clear image espacially as I con't think of anything that will dry any faster. Take a stack of ~10+ sheets and shuffle them to expose only the block where you're going to sign and then just start signing at the top. then move on to the next set. PITA but relatively trivial in the global scheme of things.


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## SSmith

jregieng said:


> blue ink = original and not photocopied.
> JR


So do you have a statement that you sig is in blue somewhere in the sig block?


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## kevo_55

^^ No, but it is implied when you sign in color.


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## Capt Worley PE

Yeah, but unless you somehow let people know you signed in color, how would they know?


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## kevo_55

From my exp, everyone signs in color. If it is signed in black, then it might be a copy.


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## Guest

^^^ Yep, that is true.

When I used to work with FEMA, all of the 'original' grants would be signed in blue ink that way it was understood which form contained the original signatures since multiple reproductions of the same grant were typical.

I guess it depends what circles you work in as to whether you 'know' about the blue ink.

JR


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## Capt Worley PE

I'd say 90% of the people sign in black here. I'd go with color, though.


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## SSmith

Captain Worley PE said:


> Yeah, but unless you somehow let people know you signed in color, how would they know?


I was wondering the same thing myself.


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## kevo_55

It really does depend on what branch of engineering you are working in.

For my circle, you will sign in blue and never allow anything you seal be photocopied or scanned.


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## IlPadrino

What about color photocopiers?

I don't know... a signature seems a ridiculous way to prove authenticity. How about an electronic signature which includes a date stamp? Or maybe a database from the State that lets you query on every time your license number was tied to a submission.


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## kevo_55

^^ Everything can be forged. The most dangerous situation is when you seal many (say, 25) items a week. How can you prove you have design control over every single thing you seal when you're putting jobs out like that?

I personally don't like electronic seals. So, I never have used them.

I was just giving tips to protect your seal.


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## MA_PE

black/blue/red the ink color doesn't matter. IMHO, It can be easily determined if your looking at an original or a copy. We always send the original signature out to the client.

Using blue ink makes the difference more readily apparent, but given today's color copiers, really doesn't protect against much.

my :2cents:


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## SSmith

MA_PE said:


> black/blue/red the ink color doesn't matter. IMHO, It can be easily determined if your looking at an original or a copy. We always send the original signature out to the client.
> Using blue ink makes the difference more readily apparent, but given today's color copiers, really doesn't protect against much.
> 
> my :2cents:


I was thinking the same thing. Seems you could accomplish the same thing with using a pressed stamp instead of rubberstamp, right?


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## benbo

I think signing in blue ink must be a government thing. I had never heard about it until I started working for the state. But what we do is sign the original in blue ink, then copy it and give the copy to anyone else who wants it. That way we have control over something with a blue ink signature on it. I'm not convinced it makes any difference, because if somebody really wanted to forge something, they could. I suppose they could white out the photocopied signature, then forge over it, or something. I can tell the difference between blue ink and a blue copy much easier than black ink and a black copy, but maybe that's just me.


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## Dleg

I think it's relatively easy to tell if a stamp/signature is the original, or some sort of attempt at forgery. First, it's pretty rare that a set of drawigns or calcs can be used in exactly the same manner for a new project. At a minimum, there's got to be some cutting and pasting involved.

In the several dozen times that I have caught a forgery (), I could either see the the lines on the photocopy where the detail or stamp had been physically cut &amp; pasted into a new sheet, or I could just tell by the quality. As a recent example, I saw a color photocopy of an engineer's seal (with blue ink sig!) that had been digitally pasted onto the new drawing. However, there was obvious pixellation of the seal and sig, so I phoned the engineer to confirm. Sure enough, he had no knowledge that his stamp was being used again by his client on another set of drawings.


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## Casey

I always sign in blue ink and stamp in red...

At my current company electronic stamps are not allowed.

One of my supervisors here used to work for a rebar company as one of the head engineers there. Well, it turned out some of the staff there didn't like waiting for his approval so they would go and grab his stamp and forge his signature... When he found out he blew a gasket (I think they should have been fired, but probably weren't) and he now locks up his stamp...

Of course that didn't stop them from taking his business cards and attaching them to documents to make it look like he had approved it... He blew another gasket over that one as well...

He's the one that advised me to use a blue signature with a red stamp...

Some people just don't understand the responsibility and liability inolved, or just don't care.


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## RIP - VTEnviro

^ I too use a red stamp. I just like the way it stands out.


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