# Did you pursue your PE even if it's not "needed" in your industry?



## mjco04 (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm working as a reliability and safety engineer in the aerospace industry and being a PE is not really a necessity as a credential.

Has anyone had this situation? Did you make a case as to whether you deserve a raise for passing the PE? Did you get something from your employer even though being a PE doesn't raise your value as an engineer?


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 10, 2013)

You'd be surprised how many glass ceilings there are out there for non-PE's in industries that don't really need it. My theory is that it's better to have it and not need it.


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## Jonhnny123 (Apr 10, 2013)

It was mostly a personal goal for me, I didn't need it. But besides personal satisfaction, it has been worth it in other areas too.

- It is a confidence booster. Getting a license is a long process that requires a lot of effort and knowledge. Finding out you passed is a great feeling and it confirms that you really are a capable engineer.

- It also commands respect. I'm a hard worker and my co-workers could see that, but I definitely noticed more respect from others after they saw those two letters after my name.

- It opens more doors. When it came time to start looking for other jobs, I got way more interviews and offers than my peers.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't need it, more of a personal satisfaction thing here too. I figured it would easier the sooner I could take the test rather than like 15-20 yrs after school.

it definitely increased the respect factor too. I get listened to now a like more than before.


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## tim1981 (Apr 10, 2013)

It isn't "needed" anywhere. You get it because you don't want to be the bottom rung. My boss would be perfectly happy with me if I didn't get it, and he would be perfectly happy to pay me a reasonable but relatively low wage to produce CAD drawings under the direction of a PE. I'm taking it because I like my job to be more exciting than that.


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## envirotex (Apr 10, 2013)

Yes. No. Yes.

I haven't regretted it even though I didn't really need it.


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## Lumber Jim (Apr 11, 2013)

The P.E.s in my current industry and my last industry command much more respect and are viewed as leaders even though there are no requirements to be a P.E. Don't get me wrong, you can be respected and a great leader without the P.E. but as soon as someone sees the letters you have less explaining to do in regard to "why" you answered the way you did and get into the "what" of the solution much more quickly.

Didn't know this until after I had the letters after my name although some very wise mentors urged me to take the test. It was always just a personal goal for me but I am glad that I did it. I think the fact that I was elgible to take the test also helped me to land my current position (30% bump from last position)

so to answer your questions directly... Yes, more of a joking hint that will lead to more $$ (bonuses, raises hopefully), and grey area because the P.E. wasn't required for my current position but I think it made me stand out among the other canidates.


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## Dark Knight (Apr 11, 2013)

Did not and do not need it.

It was just a personal goal for me. In my field of work the PE is a completely worthless piece of crap. I do not even use it in my intra office e-mail signature because most of the people here think that PE stands for Physical Education.

There was a time when I thought the PE gave me an advantage in terms of a promotion but have come to know that was not true. Is a long story that will bore everybody to death and you probably do not care. So take it at face value.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Apr 11, 2013)

tim1981 said:


> It isn't "needed" anywhere. You get it because you don't want to be the bottom rung. My boss would be perfectly happy with me if I didn't get it, and he would be perfectly happy to pay me a reasonable but relatively low wage to produce CAD drawings under the direction of a PE. I'm taking it because I like my job to be more exciting than that.




"It isn't 'needed' anywhere"? Open up your own consulting business and start submitting plans for permits on your own and see how you do.......


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## Dark Knight (Apr 11, 2013)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> tim1981 said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't "needed" anywhere. You get it because you don't want to be the bottom rung. My boss would be perfectly happy with me if I didn't get it, and he would be perfectly happy to pay me a reasonable but relatively low wage to produce CAD drawings under the direction of a PE. I'm taking it because I like my job to be more exciting than that.
> ...




He is telling the truth. Is not needed anywhere. You can work as an engineer without the PE. More than that, you can make a career without the FE and PE. Depends on where you work. Now, if he is going to submit plans, etc. he needs it, and that is also true. But, is it needed? NO and that is a fact.

Now, the powers that be may have an objection admitting that because is bad for their business, which is...Guess how many candidates take the tests (FE and PE) each year and crunch the numbers to see how much worth that industry has.


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## YMZ PE (Apr 11, 2013)

I passed the PE over a year ago and I still haven't ordered a stamp. My certificate is in a frame currently being used as a coaster. It got me nothing at my old job after I passed - not even a reimbursement for the fee, since only managers were required to have it.

But since I switched jobs unexpectedly, I'm now going to be making 35 percent more than when I took the exam, thanks to having the credential. You never know what life is going to throw at you and the nature of your career could change dramatically from what you expected. Like Dexy said, it's better to have it and not need it.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 11, 2013)

My first employer out of college was a heavy highway contractor that very strongly discouraged the pursuit of a PE. It was for 3 reasons, first being that a PE license tends to command a higher salary which obviously cuts into their bottom line since they really can't raise their rates, the second being they would need to expand their liability insurance to cover you in the case you needed to use it (they kept a VERY limited staff with PE's for the necessary times), and the third reason was tied to the first two in that those who went for the PE's knew the company wouldn't pay them for what they're worth so they would leave. So to them a PE meant you would cost them more money (either in salary or more money spent training the guy they hired to replace you once you left).

But getting my PE did end up opening up more doors down the road (including my current position) that would not have been otherwise available had I not had my license. Plus as others have said, it's A LOT easier to get it only a few years out of college when you're not "under the gun" and need it right away for a potential job...


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## Dark Knight (Apr 11, 2013)

YMZ PE said:


> I passed the PE over a year ago and I still haven't ordered a stamp. My certificate is in a frame currently being used as a coaster. It got me nothing at my old job after I passed - not even a reimbursement for the fee, since only managers were required to have it.
> 
> But since I switched jobs unexpectedly, I'm now going to be making 35 percent more than when I took the exam, thanks to having the credential. You never know what life is going to throw at you and the nature of your career could change dramatically from what you expected. Like Dexy said, it's better to have it and not need it.


That is also true. It is better to have it and not need it. I personally do not give a hoot if a fellow engineer has it or not as long as he/she is competent. One of the most knowledgeable guys I have worked for, heck of a mentor and teacher, did not have the FE. But he knew his stuff and was competent. On the other hand, have worked with three or four PEs that cannot differentiate a microwave oven from a relay. A wise man once said and I quote: "You can be a PE and still be an idiot".


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## knight1fox3 (Apr 11, 2013)

YMZ PE said:


> But since I switched jobs unexpectedly, I'm now going to be making 35 percent more than when I took the exam, thanks to having the credential. You never know what life is going to throw at you and the nature of your career could change dramatically from what you expected. Like Dexy said, it's better to have it and not need it.




QFT! I'm in a similar situation where I am soon leaving my current employer to go work for a smaller power engineering firm. My current employer does not require a PE nor would it utilize it (electrical) very much. After talking with the new firm, it was more or less a requirement to have a P.E. And an added bonus to have a record with NCEES. So, like YMZ said, you never know what will come your way. Having a PE presented me with this new opportunity that may not otherwise have been there.



Dexman PE said:


> But getting my PE did end up opening up more doors down the road (including my current position) that would not have been otherwise available had I not had my license. Plus as others have said, it's A LOT easier to get it only a few years out of college when you're not "under the gun" and need it right away for a potential job...




As an electrical eng. (at least for the faculty at my undergrad univ.), they really never educated us on the benefits to having a PE. So it really wasn't talked about much. A few of us did some research on our own and decided to try and challenge ourselves by taking the FE. Never anticipating that we might one day want to try and get a PE license. I'm glad we took the FE while still in school and then the PE followed shortly thereafter. Once I had my license and updated my LinkedIn profile accordingly, the frequency with which recruiters contacted me increased dramatically.


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## YMZ PE (Apr 11, 2013)

knight1fox3 said:


> As an electrical eng. (at least for the faculty at my undergrad univ.), they really never educated us on the benefits to having a PE. So it really wasn't talked about much.


Same here. One of my grad school professors explained it like this: "I don't need my PE and neither will you if you become a GDA like me. GDA meaning 'G-ddamned Academic'."


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## Peele1 (Apr 11, 2013)

I didn't _need _the PE, I did it as a matter of self-confidence and potential respect. I work with a lot of Engineers and Architects, and IT folks, and being able to say I'm a "state-licensed Professional Engineer", gives a quick boost in how they perceive me.

I think that it annoys the IT department's "_engineers_" who aren't even degreed engineers when I mention my Professional *Engineering* credentials.

I haven't stamped anything, and don't plan on it.

I received no raise at work, however, my title should improve, as well as the projects. I feel that having certain credentials makes me more marketable to everyone, making me more valuable where I'm at.


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## Mike in Gastonia (Apr 11, 2013)

Dark Knight said:


> Mike in Gastonia said:
> 
> 
> > tim1981 said:
> ...




If you are saying it isn't needed everywhere, I agree. But he said it isn't needed anywhere and that's not true.


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## Jonhnny123 (Apr 11, 2013)

knight1fox3 said:


> As an electrical eng. (at least for the faculty at my undergrad univ.), they really never educated us on the benefits to having a PE. So it really wasn't talked about much. A few of us did some research on our own and decided to try and challenge ourselves by taking the FE. Never anticipating that we might one day want to try and get a PE license. I'm glad we took the FE while still in school and then the PE followed shortly thereafter. Once I had my license and updated my LinkedIn profile accordingly, the frequency with which recruiters contacted me increased dramatically.



Oddly, the PE license wasn't emphasized at all in my school either. I'm sure it was for the civil engineers, but the first time I heard about the FE exam was when I got a flyer advertising an FE review course.


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## Dark Knight (Apr 11, 2013)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> If you are saying it isn't needed everywhere, I agree. But he said it isn't needed anywhere and that's not true.




Do appreciate the semantics lesson.

Fact is that from where I come from you cannot even think about working with an engineer tittle attached to your name unless you have the FE as minimum. As a matter of fact, is a law and is enforced by the local chapter of engineers. The reason though, is less than noble. They have a very tight group, more like a social club, and in top of that are a bunch of elitists. If you do not have a PE they will look at you as trash. It may be the only state or territory where you have to pay two fees to be an engineer; one to them (they called themselves the College of Engineers) and then to the state (or territory). They are just an expensive country club and if you want to get drunk and spent a ton of money in the process just go to their local Friday night. And I am not going to mention the pitcher and catcher combination they have with the CEUs. Hopefully someone will investigate them one day and bring them down. I am going to laugh my rear end off that day.

That being said, that was part of the motivation for me to get the PE. Did not want to be on the receiving end of their "You are less than me" look.

My experience here has taught me that not every place is like that and I am glad it is like this. That kind of attitude should not be allowed anywhere.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 11, 2013)

In school we only had a couple professors who cared about or discussed the PE. Luckily they were both senior advisors and lead the group who put on the FE review courses. They are the ones who drilled the "it's better to have it and not need it" mantra into our heads. I'm glad they did.


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## snickerd3 (Apr 11, 2013)

in the april ncees newsletter they have an article about thinking of making it a requirement for academia to have PE too. The whole practice what you preach stuff. They are the folks supposed tobe teaching the future PE what they need to know why aren't they held to the same standards.


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## YMZ PE (Apr 11, 2013)

snickerd3 said:


> in the april ncees newsletter they have an article about thinking of making it a requirement for academia to have PE too. The whole practice what you preach stuff. They are the folks supposed tobe teaching the future PE what they need to know why aren't they held to the same standards.


Because they're M-F'ing PhDs! That's like requiring an MD to get their PA license too.
This just supports DK's point about how much of a racket this accreditation is.


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## Krakosky (Apr 11, 2013)

I don't need it but did it as a personal goal. I got a small lump sum of money after I passed in recognition for the accomplishment. I don't regret it even if I never actually have to stamp anything. It was an amazing goal to accomplish and I feel that it will help me land jobs and opportunities in the future.


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## tim1981 (Apr 15, 2013)

Mike in Gastonia said:


> tim1981 said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't "needed" anywhere. You get it because you don't want to be the bottom rung. My boss would be perfectly happy with me if I didn't get it, and he would be perfectly happy to pay me a reasonable but relatively low wage to produce CAD drawings under the direction of a PE. I'm taking it because I like my job to be more exciting than that.
> ...




My comment was meant more literally. No one "needs" to open their own consulting business, and no one "needs" to go after a promotion where the PE is expected. We choose to, for a variety of reasons.


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## iwire (Apr 16, 2013)

Don't believe those who say you don't need it. I listened to those advice...and i wasted a couple years of my life....10+ years after graduation, I decided to take my FE exam.....and I just recently approved to take Oct 13 exam..

Take it as early as possible


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## eXtra_sauce (Dec 31, 2013)

I don't "need" the PE, but I did need the FE in order to get my P. Eng. (I have a B. Tech. (EE) and gaining licensure is contingent on passing the FE first). When I finally got around to writing the FE in October 2012, it just felt like I had started something and was leaving it unfinished. Therefore, obtaining my PE license became a focus in order to fully close out that chapter....okay, maybe a little OCD in there somewhere :wacko: . At the end of the day, I'm glad I followed through though, nothing wrong with having licenses in Canada and the US!


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## Lumber Jim (Jan 29, 2014)

YMZ PE said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > in the april ncees newsletter they have an article about thinking of making it a requirement for academia to have PE too. The whole practice what you preach stuff. They are the folks supposed tobe teaching the future PE what they need to know why aren't they held to the same standards.
> ...


I don't think I agree with this. I had some professors that had their PhDs and I'm not so sure they could pass the PE test. Book smart but not at all good at functioning under pressure.

The really good professors had the PhD, P.E. on their business cards, operated in the private sector and could speak to how theory related to the real world... these are the guys that motivated students to stick with it because they could make a class interesting.


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## JoeyPinoy (Jan 29, 2014)

> It was mostly a personal goal for me, I didn't need it. But besides personal satisfaction, it has been worth it in other areas too.
> 
> - It is a confidence booster. Getting a license is a long process that requires a lot of effort and knowledge. Finding out you passed is a great feeling and it confirms that you really are a capable engineer.
> 
> ...




I did it for the same reasons you stated here. It's not a professional requirement in my industry (defense / aerospace).

Regarding the last point for opening more doors... did you find this occured naturally or did you actively target positions desiring/requiring a PE?


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## JoeyPinoy (Jan 29, 2014)

I think we can all find anecdotes to support our view. There are competent non-licensed engineers and vice versa.

However, the historical reason for licensure, which is to protect the public from harm due to shoddy engineering, is still a social need that exists today.


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## Jonhnny123 (Feb 27, 2014)

JoeyPinoy said:


> Regarding the last point for opening more doors... did you find this occured naturally or did you actively target positions desiring/requiring a PE?




I didn't apply to any positions that required a PE (several said "PE preferred" though).

So at the minimum, it gives me an advantage over similar candidates who don't have a PE. And of course it's one less thing to worry about if I wasnt a job that does require it.


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