# well, what did you think (GENERALLY)?



## shellbell500 (Oct 29, 2007)

So how does everyone feel?

I am glad it's over (at least for now, pending the results!) and I am really glad I found these boards.


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## ee_4_pe (Oct 29, 2007)

shellbell500 said:


> So how does everyone feel?
> I am glad it's over (at least for now, pending the results!) and I am really glad I found these boards.


I'm with you. This board was extremely helpful.

I do hope, however, that I do not have to go through that again. I wish I was more sure that I passed. I am not positive that I failed, but not positive the other way either.

How did you find the questions (without giving specifics that would get us in trouble). Did you find that you were prepared sufficiently for the afternoon parts? Which module did you take? I took the power module.


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## jtucker (Oct 29, 2007)

ee_4_pe said:


> I'm with you. This board was extremely helpful.
> I do hope, however, that I do not have to go through that again. I wish I was more sure that I passed. I am not positive that I failed, but not positive the other way either.
> 
> How did you find the questions (without giving specifics that would get us in trouble). Did you find that you were prepared sufficiently for the afternoon parts? Which module did you take? I took the power module.


I took the power as well. Thought the morning session was pretty fair and the afternoon was reasonable. However, there wer several problems on the afternoon session that I had no clue on. I felt pretty good about passing when I left but the more I think about individual problems, the more I am not sure whether I passed or not. Right now I would say I am 60/40 leaning toward passing. ONe thing that stood out when I was answering questions was the answer choices. Often there would be three answers that were pretty close to one another and a fourth answer that was substantially bigger or smaller. I found myself choosing the oddball answer much of the time. Hope I wasn't falling into a trap. Did anyone else find this to be the case?


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## ee_4_pe (Oct 29, 2007)

jtucker said:


> I took the power as well. Thought the morning session was pretty fair and the afternoon was reasonable. However, there wer several problems on the afternoon session that I had no clue on. I felt pretty good about passing when I left but the more I think about individual problems, the more I am not sure whether I passed or not. Right now I would say I am 60/40 leaning toward passing. ONe thing that stood out when I was answering questions was the answer choices. Often there would be three answers that were pretty close to one another and a fourth answer that was substantially bigger or smaller. I found myself choosing the oddball answer much of the time. Hope I wasn't falling into a trap. Did anyone else find this to be the case?


I felt the same way, that the morning questions were fair but the afternoon was a little more tricky. How did you prepare for the exam? What study materials/books did you bring and find most helpful?

In the afternoon I had a few questions that I really had no clue as to what they were referring to.

I found the EERM more helpful for the afternoon than I thought it would be. My other afternoon references were a little weaker than I had hoped. There were some questions that I am STILL not sure of where to look them up to understand what they are talking about.


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## busbeepbeep (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't feel so good after that test. I felt the test was harder than representative sample questions from NCEES. I found the morning session harder than the afternoon (power), even though there were definitely some doozies in there too.

Repeat test-takers, did this test seem harder or easier than before?

My references were:

EERM 6th edition

EERM 5th edition

Practice Problems for EERM

NCEES Sample Test

IES Lighting Handbook

Power System Analysis (Grainger/Stevenson)

Ugly's Electrical References (this little book was a great quick reference)

NEC 2005 Handbook

Schaum's Electric Power Systems

Schaum's Electric Machines and Electromechanics



> There were some questions that I am STILL not sure of where to look them up to understand what they are talking about.


thats kinda the same feeling i have...that I could study another 3 months and I still wouldn't know some of the questions


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## shellbell500 (Oct 29, 2007)

ee_4_pe said:


> I'm with you. This board was extremely helpful.
> I do hope, however, that I do not have to go through that again. I wish I was more sure that I passed. I am not positive that I failed, but not positive the other way either.
> 
> How did you find the questions (without giving specifics that would get us in trouble). Did you find that you were prepared sufficiently for the afternoon parts? Which module did you take? I took the power module.


I took the Power module. I felt better about the PM than the AM.

I have to say, I thought my references for power were really good. I recommend the following: the PE reference guide (obviously); Schaum's Basic Circuit Analysis (this was particularly good to study - most of the solved problems were quite relevant I thought - especially transformers and the delta/wye sections); and two books by Theodore Bosela - one called "Introduction to Electrical Power System Technology" and the other "Electrical Systems Design." I wasn't COMPLETELY surprised by any of the PM questions.

Now I'm just parnoid I missed a sqrt 3 here or there or made other stupid mistakes!!! Waaah!


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## rcurras (Oct 29, 2007)

I took the test last April (and I failed). I found the morning section (General) easier than the afternoon section (Power). Everything depends on the experience that you have earned while working after your graduation. The more experience you have, more easily you will find the afternoon module, which in my opinion is merely pure application (and vice versa). I am planning to retake the test next April. Good luck to you all.

RC


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## busbeepbeep (Oct 29, 2007)

RC, so you did you take this October exam also? or are just sitting out till April?


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## rcurras (Oct 29, 2007)

busbeepbeep said:


> RC, so you did you take this October exam also? or are just sitting out till April?


I did not sit this time for personal reasons, but I will next April 11th.

RC


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## grownupsara (Oct 29, 2007)

First of all, I want to thank everyone on these boards. I definitely got some questions right thanks to the help I received on here. Overall, I also feel about 60/40 in terms of my chance at passing. I felt really good after the AM session...I was confident about 80% of the questions. I had much more trouble in the afternoon power session - my confidence on those questions was closer to 50-60%. So, I'm guessing that puts me right around the pass/fail line. Hopefully some of my guesses turn out to be right!

I felt that the NCEES sample exam and the sample exam by Dr. Kaiser were very helpful for the AM. I had trouble with the more theory-based questions on the PM exam. There were also a few questions that I would have sworn I was working correctly but couldn't get an answer that matched. So, rather than wait for my score in January, I think I'm going to start just doing some reading on power distribution design and theory. It's stuff I should really know anyways. I'd be happy to get some recommendations from the engr board people if you have any advice. I'll check out the books by Theodore Bosela that were mentioned. My old boss recommended the IEEE Red Book, but that's really expensive and they don't have it at my library.

For me, I learned alot of the critical test info in the past few weeks when I started to do sample exams. That really highlighted some weak points for me that I was able to work on before the exam. There are still some weak points that I know will need some attention if I have to take the exam again.

Overall, it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be. I knew I would have some trouble with amplifiers, diodes, transistors, etc., so no surprises there. The only "surprise" problems I had were the more theory-based problems. That's the kind of the thing that you learn through experience and can't just look up an easy answer/equation in the book. I'm a fairly recent college grad, so I know my experience is much less than most other people. So, I'm hoping that doing some more reading will help in this area.

Thanks again to everyone here for their help!


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## jtucker (Oct 29, 2007)

ee_4_pe said:


> I felt the same way, that the morning questions were fair but the afternoon was a little more tricky. How did you prepare for the exam? What study materials/books did you bring and find most helpful?
> In the afternoon I had a few questions that I really had no clue as to what they were referring to.
> 
> I found the EERM more helpful for the afternoon than I thought it would be. My other afternoon references were a little weaker than I had hoped. There were some questions that I am STILL not sure of where to look them up to understand what they are talking about.


I used the EERM more than I thought as well. I also used several Schaums outlines and some textbooks from college. I had studied Power System Analysis by Stevenson but forgot it at home. I think it would have helped me on at least two problems but maybe that want be the difference. Like you , I can think of several afternoon questions that I still don't know what they were talking about. I even googled one topic when I got home and couldn't find any info on it. Going in I felt like I hadn't studied near enough. Now I feel like more studying would not have helped me. I felt like I know how to work most of the problems. However, I was so rushed that I fear stupid mistakes. As for the problems I had no clue on, I think I could have studied another 200 hours and not run across any info on them.


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## rcurras (Oct 29, 2007)

In my opinion, it does not matter how much you study (afternoon Power module), you will always find problems that you would not see in text books, but as a previous experience as an engineer. I have a friend who was able to successfully resolve 3 – 4 questions based on projects that he was involved a couple of weeks before taking the test.

RC


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## Ilan (Oct 29, 2007)

I took EE with Power Depth module. I felt that the difficulty of the exam was similar to the NCEES sample exam. (I hope I will get the same 82/100) 

:bowdown: to EB, I found a lot of good references and info here that made a difference at the exam.

I took the following reference books:

Books that were most useful:

NCEES sample exam (Just take it with you and be surprised at the exam)

EERM 7th Edition (Good reference for both AM and PM)

NEC 2005 Hand book

Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers by Mc Graw Hill (Hit those odd ball questions with it)

Power System Analysis by Grainger

Schaum's Basic EE

Books that helped me answer at least one question:

UGLY's reference

MGI PE readiness

The notes I took from EB (PF correction, Electronics...)

Electric Machinery Fundamentals by Chapman

Books I didn't open at the exam

Schaum's Machines

Schaum's Power Systems

EERM Sample problems

Six minute solutions

Kaplan's sample exam

EERM sample exam

Kaiser sample exam

BEWARE of the Calculators!!! I was annoyed when they reminded everyone about the caculator policy at least five times before the exam began. I realized the seriousness later. The guy next to me was actually KICKED OUT in the middle of exam for using an old version of CASIO calculator. :true:

IMHO, the calucator policy would have made sense for the old version of the exams that mainly had essay questions. Having an advanced calculator would have made a huge difference. It really doesn't matter whether you have a super calculator for the new version of the exam (unless it has internet connection and I can connect to EB and its members via PM  ), if you don't understand the concepts, you are screwed. The bottomline is Get the exact calculators from the list provided by NCEES. They mean Business!!!

:2cents:

Ilan.


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## shellbell500 (Oct 29, 2007)

rcurras said:


> In my opinion, it does not matter how much you study (afternoon Power module), you will always find problems that you would not see in text books, but as a previous experience as an engineer. I have a friend who was able to successfully resolve 3 – 4 questions based on projects that he was involved a couple of weeks before taking the test.
> RC


If anyone else feels this way - again, I have to recommend the Bosela books. They have so much practical information in them. I'm a recent graduate (in this field for 5 years) and have moved on to MEP project management mostly - and I learned a lot of little electrical tidbits/experience-type knowledge from Bosela that I wouldn't have otherwise known from my job experience. And, the Schaum's book I mentioned has really good transformer and delta-wye practice problems too - again, stuff you don't have to do daily at your job (at least I don't!) but need to understand for the exam.


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## ee_4_pe (Oct 29, 2007)

shellbell500 said:


> If anyone else feels this way - again, I have to recommend the Bosela books. They have so much practical information in them. I'm a recent graduate (in this field for 5 years) and have moved on to MEP project management mostly - and I learned a lot of little electrical tidbits/experience-type knowledge from Bosela that I wouldn't have otherwise known from my job experience. And, the Schaum's book I mentioned has really good transformer and delta-wye practice problems too - again, stuff you don't have to do daily at your job (at least I don't!) but need to understand for the exam.


Thanks for the recommendation. I started looking into those books after your earlier post. I had never heard about them before but would definitely like to find out more. The biggest problem I found was trying to "look up" experience type of information.


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## grownupsara (Oct 29, 2007)

Hey, Shellbell,

Out of the two Bosela books, which would you recommend to help me with my power distribution theory? From the title, it sounds like the "Electrical System Design" is the one I want. My library doesn't have either of these, and I'd rather not buy both books if I don't have to.

Here's my booklist:

1. Schaum's Outlines, Electrical Power Systems (good per unit section, some fault analysis info, nothing too in-depth)

2. Schaum's Outlines, Electric Machines and Electromechanics (good info on xfmrs, more info on EERM for machines but I didn't use it too much)

3. NEC 2005 Handbook (great reference)

4. EERM (used alot in AM, a fair amount in PM)

5. Electrical Systems in Buildings by David Hughes (a fairly old smaller-size book from college, but has good basic info on lighting, branch ckt design, power dist., etc)

6. Eaton Consulting Application Guide (really big design guide, but I got it for free from their website, and used it for one or two prob's in PM; next time around I would review this more in advance b/c it seemed to have useful power system info)

7. "the other board" 6 minute solutions (good for studying, but didn't use too much in exam)

8. "the other board" Practice Problems (ditto)

9. "the other board" Sample Exam (didn't really use this much for studying or during the exam)

10. NCEES Sample Exam (really helped me prepare, but since I knew the info so well from studying, I didn't use it much in exam)

11. Kaplan Sample Exam (got this as a last-minute panic purchase, but didn't end up using)

In binders I had:

1. Dr. Kaiser's sample exam (used it a few times)

2. MIT course notes for amplifiers from their free online database (tried using it a few times when EERM didn't have info, but they didn't really end up helping either)

3. All of my photocopied practice prob's that I didn't use at all

4. My own solutions to NCEES exam. On both this exam and Kaiser's, I would note the EERM equation/page# as a reference which was very helpful during the exam.


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## shellbell500 (Oct 29, 2007)

grownupsara said:


> Hey, Shellbell,Out of the two Bosela books, which would you recommend to help me with my power distribution theory? From the title, it sounds like the "Electrical System Design" is the one I want. My library doesn't have either of these, and I'd rather not buy both books if I don't have to.
> 
> Here's my booklist:
> 
> ...


Hi Grownupsara - what do you mean, exactly, by "power distribution theory?"

"Electrical Systems Design" includes topics like system voltages, phasors, demand factors, wiring devices (includes GFCI info, for example), fuse and circuit breaker information, conductor and circuit breaker sizing per the NEC, branch circuit and feeder design per the NEC, grounding information/requirements per the NEC, panelboard info, lighting calculations, motor circuit information, transformer taps, capacitor PF correction and voltage drop calculations, short circuit calculations, coordination and harmonics. "Electrical Systems Design" is more "lite" on engineering theory and math than "Electrical Power System Technology." The latter includes topics like AC circuit review, wye and delta connections, review of generator, induction motor and synchronous motor circuit models, demand factors, per unit, transformer sizing, line and cable (transmission lines) stuff, voltage drop calculatiosn, capacitor applications, symmetrical components stuff, short circuit calculations (detailed), overcurrent protection and harmonics. Some overlap, but this book is "beefier." Truth betold, I'm not sure which one I used more for the test. The first one is GREAT for the NEC. The second is great for delta-wye and per unit I thought.

BTW, didn't you take the exam this past Friday? Maybe you won't need any more books!!! I hope so.


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## Dark Knight (Oct 29, 2007)

Power distribution is referred to the cicuits that "distributes" the electric power from the Substations to the residential and commercial costumers.

The distribution voltages vary from 4.16kV, really old systems, to 23kV in new systems. Other distribution voltages are 8.32kV and 13.2 kV. That depends on the utility and the transformers they buy.

Sorry to stick my nose on somebody else's business.


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## adr (Oct 29, 2007)

I found both the AM and the PM (Computers module) harder than expected. I'm still trying to find info on one of the PM questions 

Here's my reference list:

EERM7

NCEES sample problems

Digital design by Wakerly

The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz

NEC 2005 Handbook

Computer Communications by Stallings

Software Engineering by Schach

Data Structures by Ellis Horowitz

Schaum's Computer Architecture

Schaum's Computer Networking

If I have to take it again, I'll add a few more books to my ref. list:

Operating Systems by Silberschatz, Galvin

Latest editon of the Stallings book. My textbook (circa 1991) is a bit dated!

I also used digital design books by Mano (for Hamming codes) and Uyemura (for precharge/evaluate) during the prep.

I have the Computer Architecture book by Hennessy &amp; Patterson. This book has a wealth of info but doesn't have the basics needed for the exam.

I also downloaded and used SPICE (electronic circuit simulation) software (there are many free simulators out there) to simulate electronic circuits in the NCEES sample problems book. It helped me understand transistor (BJT) operation. You can pick components from a palette, connect them together to form a circuit, apply input voltage, and monitor response voltages and currents.

I'm glad I found this board too. BTW, how long has this board been in existence?


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## SteveR (Oct 29, 2007)

Ilan said:


> BEWARE of the Calculators!!! I was annoyed when they reminded everyone about the caculator policy at least five times before the exam began. I realized the seriousness later. The guy next to me was actually KICKED OUT in the middle of exam for using an old version of CASIO calculator. :true:


Where did you take the exam? There was a guy in my exam that got kicked out for having the wrong calculator too. He actually argued with the proctor, then threw a serious fit when leaving, slamming his books around and yelling a little before leaving.


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## chaosiscash (Oct 30, 2007)

BringItOn said:


> The distribution voltages vary from 4.16kV, really old systems, to 23kV in new systems. Other distribution voltages are 8.32kV and 13.2 kV. That depends on the utility and the transformers they buy.


Or, for those of us at WWII sites, 13.8 kV, which makes transformers more expensive.


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## shellbell500 (Oct 30, 2007)

BringItOn said:


> Power distribution is referred to the cicuits that "distributes" the electric power from the Substations to the residential and commercial costumers.
> The distribution voltages vary from 4.16kV, really old systems, to 23kV in new systems. Other distribution voltages are 8.32kV and 13.2 kV. That depends on the utility and the transformers they buy.
> 
> Sorry to stick my nose on somebody else's business.


Thanks for the definition.  I meant - I am not sure what grownupsara was referring to specifically, in order to tell her which book was more applicable to what she was looking for. I sure as h&amp;ll hope I know what power distribution is by now, post power-module PE exam!!!


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## grownupsara (Oct 30, 2007)

shellbell500 said:


> Thanks for the definition.  I meant - I am not sure what grownupsara was referring to specifically, in order to tell her which book was more applicable to what she was looking for. I sure as h&amp;ll hope I know what power distribution is by now, post power-module PE exam!!!


I guess what I meant was info on things like faults and short circuits calculations and ratings for equipment/panelboards/cb's, relay controls for larger systems, things like that. Sorry if that's still not specific enough. I have good references on p.u., motors, etc....I guess I'd like to gain a better overall understanding of power distribution in commercial applications.

And, yes, I did take the exam on Friday, and HOPEFULLY I won't have to take it again, but just taking the exam made me realize that I need a better overall understanding of how power distribution systems work. So, even if I do pass (fingers crossed), this is stuff I should know anyways.

Thanks again for your help, shellbell. Maybe if I can find used versions of both books, I'll spring for both of them.


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## Ilan (Oct 30, 2007)

I took the exam at UNT in FortWorth. He tried to convince the proctors but didn't succeed. He walked out silenlty.



SteveR said:


> Where did you take the exam? There was a guy in my exam that got kicked out for having the wrong calculator too. He actually argued with the proctor, then threw a serious fit when leaving, slamming his books around and yelling a little before leaving.


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## Wolverine (Oct 30, 2007)

Great job fellow EE'ers. You survived. Now comes The Wait :17:

Sit back, relax, don't sweat it. I absolutely knew there is no way I could have passed that exam but ASSED2: .

What's really cool is that now, if you studied hard, your brain is on fire, you've generated some great new ideas, you've learned new things you never knew and re-learned things you thought you had forgotten. No one can take that away and it will shine through in your professional life, regardless of what your score is. Great job! :beerchug:


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## rcurras (Oct 30, 2007)

grownupsara said:


> Hey, Shellbell,Out of the two Bosela books, which would you recommend to help me with my power distribution theory? From the title, it sounds like the "Electrical System Design" is the one I want. My library doesn't have either of these, and I'd rather not buy both books if I don't have to.
> 
> Here's my booklist:
> 
> ...


grownupsara

Where did you find “Eaton Consulting Application Guide”?

Thanks.

RC


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## grownupsara (Oct 30, 2007)

rcurras said:


> grownupsara
> Where did you find “Eaton Consulting Application Guide”?
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


It takes a bit of searching around on Eaton's website, but go to this link: http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Elec...Guide/index.htm

Then, they have a link on the page that says "Click here to request your copy". You have to fill in your info, but I got it in the mail in about a week. I was really surprised at how quickly it ships, especially since it's all free.

It contains alot of tools for specifying their products, but they also have technical application info for each section (panelboards, switchgear, xfmrs, etc.).

Hope it's helpful!


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## jdd18vm (Nov 3, 2007)

Well I haven't chimed in on this one, mainly spent the week licking my proverbial wounds. Not a lot I can add that would be of any value that hadn't already been said. Excellent thread!

I general I thought it was tougher than the NCEES Sample exam, but as often stated representative.

I feel I could have written most of Grownups comments with the exception I am exactly opposite. Less confident on the morning, more so on the afternoon. Not confident that overall it was enough. I'll be starting some prep work for April, if by chance the Gods felt I deserve it after 20 plus years, and get good news, well thats likely what it will be, a miracle ...LOL

In any event, I too would like to extend my gratitude to those here that have never hesitated to offer help.

John


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