# 2019 Novel Coronavirus



## Dleg




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## Supe




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## Supe




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## Supe




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## Supe




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## Supe




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## kevo_55




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## csb

Has anyone ever played the game Plague?


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## Supe

csb said:


> Has anyone ever played the game Plague?


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## Dleg




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## Dleg

I played Plague, Inc. for the first time this weekend. My first disease "fingeritis" was so effective I actually felt bad and removed its drug resistance abilities so mankind could find a cure. It wiped out 85% of the world's population before that happened, though. Disturbing!


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## csb

Dleg said:


> I played Plague, Inc. for the first time this weekend. My first disease "fingeritis" was so effective I actually felt bad and removed its drug resistance abilities so mankind could find a cure. It wiped out 85% of the world's population before that happened, though. Disturbing!


Greenland and Australia are always the tricky ones.


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## Dleg

Just make it cold and heat resistant! I invested in those abilities and all of the infectiousness abilities before I even attempted to make it more lethal. I had infected something like 60% of the earth before the first death was reported.



csb said:


> Greenland and Australia are always the tricky ones.


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## Supe

Dleg said:


> Just make it cold and heat resistant! I invested in those abilities and all of the infectiousness abilities before I even attempted to make it more lethal. I had infected something like 60% of the earth before the first death was reported.


Dleg 2020


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## Road Guy




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## Orchid PE

Dang. That was a bold joke.


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## csb

Dleg said:


> Just make it cold and heat resistant! I invested in those abilities and all of the infectiousness abilities before I even attempted to make it more lethal. I had infected something like 60% of the earth before the first death was reported.


I also like to make sure it survives on ships. That's where this virus is really missing out.


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## Supe

csb said:


> I also like to make sure it survives on ships. That's where this virus is really missing out.


Speak of the devil:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/possible-coronavirus-case-cruise-ship-6-000-passengers-docked-italy-n1126471


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## Road Guy

I saw that this morning and I literally texted the wife and 86’d our cruise for next summer!


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## csb

Cruises are so gross.


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## Supe

csb said:


> Cruises are so gross.


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## Dleg




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## Road Guy

Note: RG is NOT going cruising!


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## JayKay PE

Mmmm, hospital I work at has been on Tier 1 flu restrictions since around November/December.  No visitors with flu-like symptoms.  No visitors under 18.  No visitors beyong immediate family/partner/SO/or spiritual counselor.  All employees were required to have flu shot by October 1st and I think even if you had the shot, but have flu-like symptoms, you need to wear a mask in patient areas.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

My company released a internal statement on the virus. We have an office/facility in China. It's closed for now.


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg

So wrong.


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## Road Guy




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## Dleg




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## ulua808

This thing is now a concern in Hawaii due to the Japanese couple from Nagoya allegedly getting infected here. What would you put in your preparedness kit (besides food, water, masks, gloves, wipes, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, clorox)? Sambucus? Colloidal silver with nebulizer? Olive leaf extract? Vitamin C/D? Ideas appreciated!


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## Road Guy

i have found that wearing one of those paper masks as you walk into the grocery store keeps the girl scouts from asking you to buy their diabetes discs. And it also is effective for door to door salespeople...  #winning!


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## Dleg

You don't need any of those things. Read the CDC guidance. Summary:

- wash your hands frequently and avoid touching your face. Coronaviruses (and many others) are transmitted from droplets expelled from the airways of sick people. These droplets can get on surfaces like doorknobs, money, etc. You touch these and then get infected when you touch your eyes, mouth, or nose. The good neews is the virus does not appear to live very long on surfaces.  CDC says that almost all infections they are aware of are from direct person-to-person transmittal, with very few suspected cases of anyone necoming infected from surface contacts.

- if you see anyone who is coughing, sneezing, etc. stay 6 feet away to avoid the droplet contact. That is considered a safe distance. As an alternative, give that person a mask.

- If you or a family member are sick, stay home. This is always needed to avoid spreading infections with ordinary Coronaviruses, anyway.


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## ulua808

Dleg said:


> This is always needed to avoid spreading infections with ordinary Coronaviruses, anyway.


I agree with what you say but I don't think this is an ordinary coronavirus. People I know are uneasy since we recently found out that the reason we have zero cases in Hawaii is because no one has been tested yet. Our state's initial test kits were flawed and the new test kits are expected to arrive here mid-March. Also, wasn't too thrilled yesterday that Japan and Hong Kong were listed as travel advisory level 1; S. Korea must not be that far behind. China hit level 4 relatively quickly. Since Hawaii is a tourist destination, there are thousands of travelers still coming to Hawaii daily from Japan and Korea (not sure about Hong Kong).

About the only good thing here (re: coronavirus) is that the UV index here is through the roof and it is warm so any moisture dries up quickly (not that humid at present). Hopefully, this advantage is keeping the possibility of catching the virus lower.


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## Dleg

I'm sure Hawaii and other US states will eventually get cases, but just because no one is being tested, that doesn't automatically mean it's spreading in the community. The US has a very robust public health surveillance program.  If coronavirus was already spreading in Hawaii,  there would be an uptick in severe respiratory and pneumonia cases. From what I understand,  that's not happening yet. 

And if and when it does, the basic precautions CDC recommends will be the most effective means of prevention.


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## ulua808

Dleg said:


> If coronavirus was already spreading in Hawaii,  there would be an uptick in severe respiratory and pneumonia cases. From what I understand,  that's not happening yet.


Was reading up on the timeline in China. If we should ever reach this uptick, it would probably be too late to take any measures for the general population. Hawaii would (possibly) become Wuhan.

Another interesting thing I have learned recently is that healthy people in China are being arrested for not wearing a face mask. Still trying to find out the reasoning for the need of healthy Chinese people to wear a face mask in public.


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## ulua808

Today, Japan, Hong Kong, and now South Korea are travel advisory levels 2, 2, and 2 on both the U.S. State and CDC websites. They were 1, 1, and none yesterday on the U.S. State website, respectively.


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## JayKay PE

So Italy has five confirmed deaths linked to the coronavirus and Afghanistan has some confirmed (I believe).


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?from=groupmessage&amp;isappinstalled=0#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


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## Road Guy

So the _regular flu_ has a morality rate of 0.5% and this has a mortality rate of 2% -  The wife said they are not in freak out mode in the hospitals here just yet, just more in the be very much more on the lookout stage - I am glad she doesn't work in the ER, which is just a cesspool of everything..


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I read this from a reliable source, but it didn't provide a reference. It's interesting.



> The total number of confirmed cases stands at around 75K globally, maintaining a 2-3% fatality rate overall.  Roughly 80% of the cases are in Hubei province.  It is important to note that the high fatality rate is focused in Hubei.  Outside of Hubei province, the fatality rate is much lower and has started to trend in line with the seasonal flu (about 0.07%).


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## Road Guy

my bad,I meant 0.05% for the regular flu - I just got my data from my wife's most recent staff meeting, which I had to unfortunately hear every detail about due to picking her up from work that day...


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## Dleg

Korea place on level 3 travel warning now.


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## Dleg




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## JayKay PE

So.  I forgot that my parents are traveling to Italy in April.

I know things will probably be okay, but I'm really concerned and wish they would change this trip since they are seniors and my dad has to use a CPAP/ neither of them are the healthiest.  Is it stupid for me to try and talk them out of this (my mom is actually a little scared/doesn't want to be potentially quarantined in another country and she was the one who was trying to get me to convince my father to change the trip to a National Park or something)?


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## ulua808

Iran's death rate is in the teens (was 18% yesterday and 15% today). One interesting point of note is that, although very few cases, they all recovered relatively quickly: India, Sri Lanka and Nepal. I occasionally listen to people like the health ranger and Dr. Mercola and they like to talk about how different foods can help with your health. I will be eating Indian curry today for lunch, and buying some of the curry sauces from the neighborhood store; btw I like Indian curry with naan.


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## Dleg

JayKay PE said:


> So.  I forgot that my parents are traveling to Italy in April.
> 
> I know things will probably be okay, but I'm really concerned and wish they would change this trip since they are seniors and my dad has to use a CPAP/ neither of them are the healthiest.  Is it stupid for me to try and talk them out of this (my mom is actually a little scared/doesn't want to be potentially quarantined in another country and she was the one who was trying to get me to convince my father to change the trip to a National Park or something)?


I think the CDC put Italy on the Level 2 travel advisory, which recommends against travel for older adults and people with underlying health conditions.  If it were my parents,  I'd be sharing that with them and asking them not to go.


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## Dleg

ulua808 said:


> Iran's death rate is in the teens (was 18% yesterday and 15% today). One interesting point of note is that, although very few cases, they all recovered relatively quickly: India, Sri Lanka and Nepal. I occasionally listen to people like the health ranger and Dr. Mercola and they like to talk about how different foods can help with your health. I will be eating Indian curry today for lunch, and buying some of the curry sauces from the neighborhood store; btw I like Indian curry with naan.


I wouldn't put any faith in the numbers reported by Iran. There are probably far more cases, which would bring the mortality rate down. As for the effectiveness of curry, I guess we can all watch to see what happens in India?


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## Road Guy

I just realized my in laws are somewhere in Antarctica on one of those national geographic trips - not sure where they fly back from from there? 

They were supposed to bring me back a penguin but I am sure they will forget


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## ulua808

San Francisco has apparently just declared a State of Emergency over the coronavirus, despite no cases. It seems like they are getting everyone *mentally* prepped for the inevitable.


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## RBHeadge PE

Road Guy said:


> They were supposed to bring me back a penguin but I am sure they will forget


I can tell you from experience that they don't like being in the overhead compartment. 

But maybe your inlaws can try to claim that it's an emotional support bird. Airlines might believe it!


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## ulua808

Concerning San Francisco, seems like the city just wants to get more money from the federal government. Perhaps they just don’t want a good crisis to go to waste.


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## JayKay PE

Dleg said:


> I think the CDC put Italy on the Level 2 travel advisory, which recommends against travel for older adults and people with underlying health conditions.  If it were my parents,  I'd be sharing that with them and asking them not to go.


Yeah, my sister and I are trying to convince them.  My sister worked in NYC DEP Haz response/CDC team and she was like, "Italy's public health sector is really weak.  They're not going to be able to contain this" and that her confidence about it not spreading in Europe went down the crapper once she saw it landed in Italy.  And now Italy has 12 confirmed deaths linked to the virus.  Uhhhhhhhhhhh.  Elderly parents please don't travel into a shit show.  This is just like when they landed in Vegas like 3-hours after the rooftop shooting in 2017.


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## Supe

My company has added South Korea, Italy, and Japan to the no-fly list, and is mandating 14 day quarantines if traveling there for personal reasons.


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## Road Guy

Also this is a good time to stock up on ammo to be honest..


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Also this is a good time to stock up on ammo to be honest..


Not disagreeing; just pointing out... I've never heard anyone say, "This is a bad time to stock up on ammo." #imjustsaying


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## ulua808

Road Guy said:


> Also this is a good time to stock up on ammo to be honest..


And also non-lead pellets in case gotta get some mountain doves for food.


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## P-E

I have plenty of beer.


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## Road Guy

Can you describe the beer?


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## P-E




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## Dleg

That might last the weekend, then what?


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## RBHeadge PE

Hey I wonder how my 401k is doing


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## Orchid PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> Hey I wonder how my 401k is doing


Why you do this. Just when I started to stop looking.

401k , IRA , Indiv. Brokerage Acc. .


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## Road Guy

Maintain your rate of investment and you are buying a little lower price today than yesterday. it always goes up in the long run..

But we should have nuked China when we had the chance it seems...


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## RBHeadge PE

I'm not worried, nor changing any strategy. I expect drops like this over the next 30 years.

My comment above was just commentary on how things are taking a nose dise this week.


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## Orchid PE

What sucks is I had dropped some of my tax refund in some funds on feb 13th. Wish I would've waited just one more week.


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## ulua808

US may be in trouble. There is a patient at the UC Davis hospital that went from one hospital to another to get tested for the coronavirus. Due to the CDC guidelines, no hospital would test him. Eventually one did and he was diagnosed as infected; first community transmission case. Perhaps that’s the reason for state of emergency?


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## P-E

Dleg said:


> That might last the weekend, then what?


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## ChebyshevII PE PMP

RBHeadge PE said:


> Hey I wonder how my 401k is doing


Me looking at my accounts:


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## roadwreck

Dleg said:


>


I'm using this picture for a Health &amp; Safety moment this afternoon.


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## txjennah PE

Oh god I'm scared to look at my 401K lol.

I am honestly not concerned about coronavirus. Obviously precautions need to be taken, especially given the deaths that the virus has caused and the fact that it's spreading, but at this point, I still think you're more likely to get sick from the flu than you are coronavirus, at least in the US. I'm just going to continue doing what I normally do (i.e. employ good hygiene) and should it become a bigger threat down the road, I'll reevaluate my stance.


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## Orchid PE

There are talks of making employees around here work from home if possible.  We'll see if it works out.

There was a scare down in Ft. Walton earlier this week, but results came back negative. I may have had to cancel our trip to FL this weekend had it been a real case.


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## csb

My in-laws have purchased N-95 masks because of their concerns. They live in very rural USA. Thanks for taking masks from people that need them, a-holes!


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## Road Guy

Huge benefit to living in South Dakota right now...

More if you own camping spots for Sturgis!

But in 2018 we had triple the amount of deaths to the regular flu (34,000 people) - I dont recall that making the news.. still no cure for the flu either...


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## blybrook PE

I was in one of the local larger hardware stores (non-chain) getting a few drill bits and overheard the following:

Customer - Have any dust masks?

Counter monkey - Had ten boxes 15 minutes ago, they're all sold out now. We've got a few half face respirators though.

Customer - I don't want a respirator, I just want the mask. I just came from Grainger and they're sold out as well. Next shipment is expected in 4 weeks.

Counter monkey - Try amazon, might get 'em faster. Folks seem to be stocking up on them.

Customer - Hell no, the price gouging has already begun. I was a 5 pack for $200 this morning!

_About that time, I had wandered far enough away that I couldn't hear the rest of the conversation._


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## Road Guy

A bandanna is more effective - &amp; looks cooler!

I'll also be wearing one (a bandanna)  when I go take my (unarmed dutch neighbors) masks that I know they stocked up on cause I saw it on facebook! if it gets to that


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## Omgpickles

I know someone who is a hospital infection preventionist. The CDC is the best place to get information according to them. It's getting bad. People are taking all of the facemasks available at the front desk for sick people. The issue with the Coronavirus vs the flu is that we don't know the coronavirus. There are a lot of variables unaccounted for. We also haven't been through a pandemic in this new age.

 If you are thinking about prepping, they are told to prep like you're about to go through a bad blizzard. You don't need to act like Alex Jones, but be prepared for a couple of days without services if worse comes to worse.


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## Road Guy

The wife works in an ICU and the ER from time to time, so likely she will get it from someone and then bring it home since it doesn't show symptoms until its too late.. - One of the things the hospital staff recommended (to "management") was to limit family members in the hospital, but no one likes to be the bad guy anymore so they didnt want to even do that yet...  She has been wearing a mask at work and one of the family members complained that it made them feel uncomfortable that the staff was wearing masks, gasp - stupid fuckers...


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## Roarbark

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

FWIW, I like that taper on China's #s. If the #s are accurate, it spread to a point (fairly limited point, given how huge their population is), and has significantly slowed down in the last month or so.


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## Dleg

^yeah but with massive disruptions to everyone's daily lives and business. 

That's what I'm envisioning. Just a long, drawn out version of a storm or whatever, where you are stuck at home and can't get most of the usual stuff. That and a heightened possibility that every one of us will lose at least one or more elderly relative or friend, close or distant.  

Then there's the uncomfortable thoughts of "am I an older adult now?" and what it would be like to be one of the 15 to 20 percent who get the severe sickness and need to be hospitalized or intubated. And then what happens if your hospital bed turns out to be in a stadium, and there are no ventilators left by the time you get infected. 

Purposely not re-watching Contagion any time soon.


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## NikR_PE

Roarbark said:


> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
> 
> FWIW, I like that taper on China's #s. If the #s are accurate, it spread to a point (fairly limited point, given how huge their population is), and has significantly slowed down in the last month or so.


I hope thats the truth. But the reported numbers from China should always be assumed as the lower limit. 

https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov-model/


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## Road Guy

Yes I am sure China is being very forthcoming! 


The dude my wife had at work just ended up having the regular flu, 78, died this am before the negative test came back from the cdc- they were impressed they got the results back pretty quick.


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## Road Guy




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## ulua808

Looks like vitamin C helps!


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## JayKay PE

Uhhhhhhh.  My dad is still saying that him and my mom are going to Italy.  My mom is freaking out, not due to the virus itself, but because of the reaction of the countries potentially closing borders/keeping them there instead of allowing them to travel home (even though I think JFK is one of the 'approved' airports for China travel, so I assume it wouldn't close for any reason?).  They're going to Rome right after Easter, when a ton of people will be making pilgrimages, and cross-contamination is going to be a thing.  I def need to talk to my dad again.


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## Road Guy

yeah I would feel the same, but old dudes (myself included) can be stubborn.. maybe they should push Easter back till June this year?


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## JayKay PE

My dad is def an old dude who seems to tick every single box of people who should be aware/be ultra concerned and wash their hands: older (65+), diabetic, with heart problems.

I'm hoping he's just saying that they're still going to be a 'dad' about it, and that he's secretly changed the trip to something different so my mom doesn't freak out and go into hiding (aka: go upstate).


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## txjennah PE

JayKay PE said:


> My dad is def an old dude who seems to tick every single box of people who should be aware/be ultra concerned and wash their hands: older (65+), diabetic, with heart problems.
> 
> I'm hoping he's just saying that they're still going to be a 'dad' about it, and that he's secretly changed the trip to something different so my mom doesn't freak out and go into hiding (aka: go upstate).


My Italian teacher lives in northern Italy, and she was saying it's ridiculous right now - EVERYTHING is closed.  She told me that she's discouraging people from traveling to Italy right now, not so much for the outbreak concerns (though it does sound like your dad is part of the more vulnerable population), but simply because nothing is open.  Even grocery stores are being completely emptied out.  So maybe you want to approach it with him from that angle -  not worth going if you can't do anything!


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## jeb6294

People are stupid...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I was planning on asking my boss to send me to CAASE20 conference in June. I'm a little concerned that that might end up being peak US coronavirus time.


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## JayKay PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I was planning on asking my boss to send me to CAASE20 conference in June. I'm a little concerned that that might end up being peak US coronavirus time.


Whaaaaaaat?! You'd be in Indy!  I CAN CRASH YOUR PARTY (j/k, no, I'd be too busy being an adult and working during normal hours).

I'm not sure if it's going to hit here too bad?  Seems to be on the coasts right now...I think one or two cases have been found in Illinois?


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## ulua808

jeb6294 said:


> People are stupid...
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html


Are there still masks available? Hawaii has been sold out since early February. We’re definitely not getting any more in our stores. My dentist is limited to two boxes of N95 per month. And China has placed a ban on sending face masks to the states (Chinese news in mid February).


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## Dleg




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## ulua808

This pic does not instill confidence in the US response.


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## ulua808

Have an acquaintance in Hawaii whose sister had the coronavirus twice, in Wuhan (and is still there). The Chinese are getting a handle on this virus and have been achieving good results with a non-drug, non-Chinese herbs protocol. Was able to pick up most of the things that they have been using at a local health food store. Of course, I don’t know the dosages they are using so I am only taking the recommended dosages, in the hopes that it will help with prevention in case the shtf here.


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## mudpuppy

So my work just announced our COVID19 policy.  No business related international travel.  (We're a domestic company so this isn't really a big deal.)  If you or anyone in your household travels to any of the countries on the CDC list, you can't come to work for 14 days.  If you can't work remote, you get a paid vacation.

The countries on the list as of right now are China, Iran, South Korea, Japan, Italy and Hong Kong.


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## jeb6294

mudpuppy said:


> So my work just announced our COVID19 policy.  No business related international travel.  (We're a domestic company so this isn't really a big deal.)  If you or anyone in your household travels to any of the countries on the CDC list, you can't come to work for 14 days.  If you can't work remote, *you get a paid vacation*.
> 
> The countries on the list as of right now are China, Iran, South Korea, Japan, Italy and Hong Kong.


I guessing a lot of people are suddenly going to have family members just getting back from China....


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## txjennah PE

mudpuppy said:


> So my work just announced our COVID19 policy.  No business related international travel.  (We're a domestic company so this isn't really a big deal.)  If you or anyone in your household travels to any of the countries on the CDC list, you can't come to work for 14 days.  If you can't work remote, you get a paid vacation.
> 
> The countries on the list as of right now are China, Iran, South Korea, Japan, Italy and Hong Kong.


My company banned all non-essential travel...since we are global, it is for domestic travel too.


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## RBHeadge PE

ulua808 said:


> The Chinese are getting a handle on this virus and have been achieving good results with a non-drug, non-Chinese herbs protocol.


Not sure about that, but extracorporeal membrane oxygenation is doing a great job.



mudpuppy said:


> So my work just announced our COVID19 policy.  No business related international travel.


Pretty similar here. International travel is restricted and there are controls on why happens after returning. I'm half expecting limits on domestic travel to come in few weeks.


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## Road Guy

I have a feeling we all got a similar memo that was _blessed _by the CDC, did everyone's come out around 4 PM yesterday?

Our is travel only in US and Canada, we have a lot of people that go to Vancouver from my office (one of them used to be me) which sees a ton of travel to Asia - hopefully Canada is limiting travel to China and other places in Asia.


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## ulua808

RBHeadge PE said:


> Not sure about that, but extracorporeal membrane oxygenation is doing a great job.


Looks promising, but would probably not be available for a low totem pole nobody like me.


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## RBHeadge PE

Road Guy said:


> I have a feeling we all got a similar memo that was _blessed _by the CDC, did everyone's come out around 4 PM yesterday?


_checks email_

yep, 4PM exact.



ulua808 said:


> Looks promising, but would probably not be available for a low totem pole nobody like me.


Yeah, unfortunately it's not widely available in the US, and its not clear that we can scale up quickly either.


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## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> I have a feeling we all got a similar memo that was _blessed _by the CDC, did everyone's come out around 4 PM yesterday?
> 
> Our is travel only in US and Canada, we have a lot of people that go to Vancouver from my office (one of them used to be me) which sees a ton of travel to Asia - hopefully Canada is limiting travel to China and other places in Asia.


Did not get a CDC blessed memo, but I work in a medical facility, so we've been getting a ton of VA-specific stuff for the VAMCs.

We don't travel as much, I guess?


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

We're an international company with 3 facilities in China, so we've been getting emails for months now. Honestly the communication has been really good.. better than most media outlets.

The necessity of all travel needs to be evaluated and blessed by your manager. We're limiting non-essential travel, but we're allowed to travel as necessary. We have hundreds of account managers and application engineers who do nothing but visit customer sites. I'm pretty sure they are traveling as needed, but restricted/limited in specific countries.


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## txjennah PE

Travel is completely restricted for us if non-essential, even conferences (unless conferences are local).


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## Road Guy

maybe we should just treat this like the chicken pox and get it over with.. I dont like a long engagement!


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## Dleg

I've seen some good projections / forecasts, if you will, that show the value of stretching this thing out as much as possible. The purpose would be to prevent a sudden surge of cases that would overwhelm hospital capacity. That's what is turning out to be the main factor behind the mortality rate in Wuhan - the stadnard of care dropped because there wasn't enough hospital space or health care workers to deal with the influx. Outside Wuhan, the rate has been around 0.7%, according to a story I heard this morning.  So staying home, not traveling, etc. would assist with stretching out the peak of the outbreak, which would potentially save tens (hundreds?) of thousands of lives.

The other thing we can hope for is the effectiveness of the ebola drug remdesivir (sp?). It's being tested now, including a mission underway now with US personnel treating patients in Japan.


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## csb

"My internet-friend said I should go home."


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## Road Guy

For anyone who ever went to spring break at Panama City


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## Dleg

I've got to wonder if this COVID-19 pandemic will be the end of the whole "paid time off" scam.  I hope it is.  I always thought that the whole PTO thing was a stupid idea, at least from a public health perspective. I'm sure it seemed like the greatest invention ever to the HR people who thought it up, though. "Hey, I've got a great idea to end the abuse of sick leave: let's not give them any, and require them to use their vacation time!"

My first experience with PTO was at my last workplace, which was a Native Health Care organization. These were employees who should absolutely have never come in to work while sick, but they did all the time because they didn't want to "waste" their PTO, or they had vacation plans, etc. etc.  

Need to just go back to sick leave and annual leave as two separate things.


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## JayKay PE

Dleg said:


> I've got to wonder if this COVID-19 pandemic will be the end of the whole "paid time off" scam.  I hope it is.  I always thought that the whole PTO thing was a stupid idea, at least from a public health perspective. I'm sure it seemed like the greatest invention ever to the HR people who thought it up, though. "Hey, I've got a great idea to end the abuse of sick leave: let's not give them any, and require them to use their vacation time!"
> 
> My first experience with PTO was at my last workplace, which was a Native Health Care organization. These were employees who should absolutely have never come in to work while sick, but they did all the time because they didn't want to "waste" their PTO, or they had vacation plans, etc. etc.
> 
> Need to just go back to sick leave and annual leave as two separate things.


As someone who recently went from private (where PTO was a single bucket) to public (where sick and vacation are split), there are still people who will do exactly what you said.  I've seen people come in who are like, dying, but have no sick time because they kept using it for 'hangover Mondays', so they technically have to come in.  Idk.  I really think something like unlimited sick time should be a standard, or some kinda of ridiculous amount per year (like 3 or 4 weeks), that DOESN'T roll over.  When it rolls over I've found people tend to..hoard hours?  Unless there is a financial reason to have the hours, they shouldn't be allowed to roll over.


----------



## Orchid PE

At my last company, people could save up to 1040 hours of sick leave. Yes, 6 months of sick leave. We only got 2 weeks a year, but if you didn't use it you could save it. Most people didn't use sick leave until they built this up, which took 13 years.

Here at my current company, I only have PTO (combined vacation and sick). I'm trying to save as much as possible since I'll have to use this when the baby comes in July. It's not like my old company that gave 2 weeks of parental leave to new fathers (that's in addition to the normal vacation and sick leave given).

Previous company was private, current company is public.


----------



## jeb6294

JayKay PE said:


> As someone who recently went from private (where PTO was a single bucket) to public (where sick and vacation are split), there are still people who will do exactly what you said.  I've seen people come in who are like, dying, but have no sick time because they kept using it for 'hangover Mondays', so they technically have to come in.  Idk.  I really think something like unlimited sick time should be a standard, or some kinda of ridiculous amount per year (like 3 or 4 weeks), that DOESN'T roll over.  When it rolls over I've found people tend to..hoard hours?  Unless there is a financial reason to have the hours, they shouldn't be allowed to roll over.


I'll have to check and see if it's still the case, but I know hoarding sick time was the norm for Gov't people once upon a time because it could be used towards your retirement while regular time off could not.  Ironically, we just got the email today about procedures for donating use-or-lose time and the list of people in our department who are eligible.


----------



## jeb6294

Article by Chelsea Clinton: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/opinions/trump-us-coronavirus-prepared-clinton-sridhar/index.html

In the meantime, more people in America have died trying to testify against her mom than the Coronavirus has killed.


----------



## csb

We get separate sick and vacation. There's a limit to how many vacation you can roll over each year, but no limit to sick leave. I'll hit 600 hours of sick leave next month if I stay healthy this month. I have more than a few guys with 1000+ hours. I view it as "If/When I get cancer, I'll need a lot of time." We also can get paid for half that amount when we retire, though I think that max is viewed as 1000 hours (so you get paid for 500). We accrue sick at one day a month. Vacation is a sliding scale based on years of experience; I earn two days a month.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Dleg said:


> I've got to wonder if this COVID-19 pandemic will be the end of the whole "paid time off" scam.  I hope it is.  I always thought that the whole PTO thing was a stupid idea, at least from a public health perspective.


If it gets bad enough, one would think that it would spur change. Maybe even requiring sick leave for all employees. The reality is that the workers usually deprived of sick leave are usually the ones who can't afford to miss work, and tend to work in service sector positions (ie food) where you specifically do NOT want them coming to work sick. 

But there are so many instances in the world lately where one would expect corrective action to occur only for the status quo to remain. Evidentally, as a society, we rather pay for a pound of cure over a penny of prevention.



jeb6294 said:


> I'll have to check and see if it's still the case, but I know hoarding sick time was the norm for Gov't people once upon a time because it could be used towards your retirement while regular time off could not.


Thats still the case. But the ratio of time that SL can counts toward retirement changes every so often. Used to be 2:1., I think it changing to 1:1 soon.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

My last company gave us separate sick and vacation time. They technically called sick time "AIPT" (accident, illness,  and personal time). But management was so strict about how it was used that it was a HUGE pain in the butt. Vacation time was considered your time; you "earned" it like pay. So in theory you could use it however and whenever you wanted. Whereas AIPT time was considered a "benefit". It was the companies time, not yours; you didn't earn it, rather it was given to you. So the company was allowed to dictate how you used it. Managers regularly told people that they weren't allowed to use it in certain situations, and they had to take vacation instead. But the real rub was that vacation requests also had to be approved by your manager. So management could also reject your vacation request if they couldn't afford for you to be out for "business reasons". The whole thing was BS.

My current company combines sick and vacation into Paid Time Off. But they are completely cool about however you want to use it. I've never seen a vacation rejected. (It's just a much better company overall.) So I much rather the current setup than the previous. They also have a really cool policy where if you have to be out for less than 2 hours, then you don't have to use your PTO.

So yeah, management practices and company culture matter much more to me than how the time is named and whether it's combined.


----------



## ulua808

Video showing situation in Iran. Eerily similar to Wuhan. Even shows a collapsed person in NYC; people should be running away fast. Warning: in Chinese.


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> I'll have to check and see if it's still the case, but I know hoarding sick time was the norm for Gov't people once upon a time because it could be used towards your retirement while regular time off could not.  Ironically, we just got the email today about procedures for donating use-or-lose time and the list of people in our department who are eligible.


Yeah, but that's a solid financial reason to hoard sick time.  At other companies, I think I was able to roll over sick time but the accrual was really low, so it was easier to just use it.  But then it sucked because I also didn't have that much vacation time, so I ended up using sick time while on vacation (but since it was consulting, I really ended up billing at least half the vacation because I wasn't allowed to have my phone off/stop doing work because there were deadlines).


----------



## kevo_55

This thread is pretty funny.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

My plan to stave this SARS virus off is to simply maintain a high BAC such that any virus that enters the blood stream either dies or has such a party I die before spreading it.


----------



## Orchid PE

Audi driver said:


> My plan to stave this SARS virus off is to simply maintain a high BAC such that any virus that enters the blood stream either dies or has such a party I die before spreading it.


I might have to follow your example.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I just watched an episode of X-Men cartoon where they intentionally infected Wolverine with a virus so his mutant healing would produce antibodies that could then be used to save everyone. Have we considered that?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

jean15paul_PE said:


> I just watched an episode of X-Men cartoon where they intentionally infected Wolverine with a virus so his mutant healing would produce antibodies that could then be used to save everyone. Have we considered that?


The number of available Wolverine individuals is vanishingly small. I may be the only one.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Audi driver said:


> The number of available Wolverine individuals is vanishingly small. I may be the only one.


*Kidnaps @Audi driver, P.E. and ships him to Hubei province.*


----------



## roadwreck

Audi driver said:


> The number of available Wolverine individuals is vanishingly small. I may be the only one.


Paging @Wolverine


----------



## Road Guy

I think whats overlooked with PTO is that most employers fund a short term and long term disability for longer periods of being sick, out of work, etc.  Which would kick in for times like this.

Ive been in both systems and in Government I saw more abuse of Sick Leave than I have sick people coming to work in the private world. - We had several people (in government world) who would use it as personal days and not really when sick so we had to implement a lot of time and attendance policies where if you used up a certain % of your sick leave you had to start bringing in doctors notes - and for those people that usually ended the never ending sick leave (but our county government actually had a spine).

People in Denver are thinking the vital need is Toilet Paper, everywhere is out!


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> People in Denver are thinking the vital need is Toilet Paper, everywhere is out!


Well, I can't blame them.

I'd hate to be sitting there only to realize I'm out of tp and can't go out of the house because of the zombie apocalypse.

Like being up shit creek without a paddle.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

On a related note...

Not touching your face is hard!


----------



## NikR_PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> On a related note...
> 
> Not touching your face is hard!


Stop touching their face. Or at least get their consent.


----------



## NikR_PE

csb said:


> We get separate sick and vacation. There's a limit to how many vacation you can roll over each year, but no limit to sick leave. I'll hit 600 hours of sick leave next month if I stay healthy this month. I have more than a few guys with 1000+ hours. I view it as "If/When I get cancer, I'll need a lot of time." We also can get paid for half that amount when we retire, though I think that max is viewed as 1000 hours (so you get paid for 500). We accrue sick at one day a month. Vacation is a sliding scale based on years of experience; I earn two days a month.


Do we work for the same company? JK, I do understand this would be a common practice. 

I am at 505 sick hrs as of this month. Need to use my vacay balance as I will stop accumulating that after march 15th. But nowhere to travel with this thing going on.


----------



## Violator

I am washing my hands so damn much I had to go out and buy some lotion to keep them from cracking up!


----------



## Dleg

It's taken me a few weeks, but I feel like I have a pretty good awareness now of touching my face.

That's not to say that I have been able to stop it, but at least I am aware when I am doing it.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

I quit popping bubble wrap because the air is from China.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/4/21163322/coronavirus-face-touching-virus-contagious-health-hygiene-timeline


----------



## Orchid PE

I touch my face all the time. Not gonna stop now.


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> We had several people (in government world) who would use it as personal days and not really when sick


I've only been at the DOE for about a month now so I don't know any of the people on the list here, but at previous Gov't jobs, that used to be one of the pastimes towards the end of the year when the requests for donated leave would come out...seeing who 'needed' leave and deciding if they deserved it or not.  The vast majority of the time, the ones requesting donated leave were the people who blew through their sick leave rather than use annual leave and then ended up shit creek when they actually got sick.


----------



## ulua808

To say it doesn't affect little ones is so wrong. China really needs to tell the truth about this virus.


----------



## ulua808

Vitamin C


----------



## Road Guy

This is probably also why the numbers are decreasing in China(&amp; other socialist countries ) too...


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Man, this not picking your nose thing is harder than I thought it would be.


----------



## Dleg

ulua808 said:


> To say it doesn't affect little ones is so wrong. China really needs to tell the truth about this virus.


I have seen absolutely no indication that children are at an elevated risk. ALL of the public health agencies in affected countries (which currently sits at 76) are reporting the same thing: the people most at risk of severe illness are older adults and people with underlying health conditions. Severe cases and even infection in general among children has not been reported. It would be pretty tough to coordinate a lie that big, among 76 countries.

This is certainly a public health crisis, but there is way too much unconfirmed, wrong information being shared on the internet. All this does is create panic, and at this time there is no need to panic, especially about things that are not known to be happening.


----------



## ulua808

Dleg said:


> I have seen absolutely no indication that children are at an elevated risk.


I don’t believe they are at elevated risk, but I do believe they have a way better chance at surviving the virus. But reports I hear in the western media is that they are at almost no risk of dying, downplaying the risk of getting infected.

Most of the media I have been watching are from Taiwan, Japan and some from leaked videos from mainland China. This virus is serious stuff over there, and the “fear” over there is magnitudes more than here. Not trying to induce panic though.

Also don’t believe that we’re ever going to get the full truth this side of eternity.


----------



## Dleg

Back to laughing at the apocalypse.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

Is it okay to be annoyed that the people bringing this shit to the US are all fucking assholes coming back from their expensive Italy trips or pacific cruises.

The guy who just tested positive in CO knew he had just been to Italy, then northern California, and well shit lets just go to breck for a ski weekend - yeah fuck you asshole I really do hope you die..


----------



## Road Guy

sorry that was harsh, mr chow get angry sometimes..


----------



## ulua808

People in the US complain about the CDC no longer providing accurate CV data. Well, guess who is keeping detailed info about the situation in the States? Yup the Chinese.

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en

Oh the irony!


----------



## Road Guy

well China started this shit, they should have to pay some restitution.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-spreads-one-study-predicts-101552222.html


----------



## Orchid PE

Well damn. I was down in Santa Rosa County, FL this past weekend.

I know viruses usually respect state lines, and I'm hoping county lines, but do you think they are picky down to the neighborhood level???


----------



## txjennah PE

Road Guy said:


> Is it okay to be annoyed that the people bringing this shit to the US are all fucking assholes coming back from their expensive Italy trips or pacific cruises.
> 
> The guy who just tested positive in CO knew he had just been to Italy, then northern California, and well shit lets just go to breck for a ski weekend - yeah fuck you asshole I really do hope you die..


Yikes


----------



## JayKay PE

Welp.  Confirmed case identified in Indiana.  So we're on lock-down from 6pm indefinitely.  Daily testing/questionnaire to get a 'you're okay' sticker combined with only three entrances open.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> Welp.  Confirmed case identified in Indiana.  So we're on lock-down from 6pm indefinitely.  Daily testing/questionnaire to get a 'you're okay' sticker combined with only three entrances open.


Your work is on lockdown? You work at a hospital or something, right?


----------



## ulua808

There is hope! Vitamin C! An encouraging story.


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Is it okay to be annoyed that the people bringing this shit to the US are all fucking assholes coming back from their expensive Italy trips or pacific cruises.
> 
> The guy who just tested positive in CO knew he had just been to Italy, then northern California, and well shit lets just go to breck for a ski weekend - yeah fuck you asshole I really do hope you die..


Just like the guy in NH that tested positive and went to a party anyhow.   Some people are just jerks.  Now those people are all in quarantine. 
 

I guess that the spread is inevitable.  I’m figuring out what to do to pass the time during a possible widespread quarantine. I just learned how to fold a fitted sheet: https://www.hgtv.com/videos/so-thats-how-you-fold-a-fitted-sheet-0257622 
never thought it possible.


----------



## ulua808

P-E said:


> Just like the guy in NH that tested positive and went to a party anyhow.   Some people are just jerks.  Now those people are all in quarantine.


And at a party with doctors and medical students to boot! Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center.


----------



## ulua808

Looks like the US is mostly testing only after the patient is admitted to ICU. The death rate is unusually high.


----------



## JayKay PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Your work is on lockdown? You work at a hospital or something, right?


Yup! I work at a VA medical center, so a majority of our patients are elderly and/or immuno-compromised. I’m happy I can go home at night and I think I’m going to wait to see if any of my work actually takes me into patient-care areas (usually, it doesn’t, but I have a pneumatic tube job coming up that is literally in the midst of patient and pharmacy and the laboratories. So we’ll see).


----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## Dleg

JayKay PE said:


> Uhhhhhhh.  My dad is still saying that him and my mom are going to Italy.  My mom is freaking out, not due to the virus itself, but because of the reaction of the countries potentially closing borders/keeping them there instead of allowing them to travel home (even though I think JFK is one of the 'approved' airports for China travel, so I assume it wouldn't close for any reason?).  They're going to Rome right after Easter, when a ton of people will be making pilgrimages, and cross-contamination is going to be a thing.  I def need to talk to my dad again.


“If you’re a person with an underlying condition and you are particularly an elderly person with an underlying condition you need to think twice about getting on a plane, on a long trip, and not only think twice, just don’t get on a cruise ship,” Fauci said on “Meet the Press.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/coronavirus-may-force-americans-to-avoid-crowds-and-cancel-cruises-health-official-warns-idUSKBN20V0MK


----------



## Dleg

Honestly they should just stop all cruises. Think about the numbers here. From the same Reuters story I quoted from above: 

The cruise ship Grand Princess, barred from returning to San Francisco last week due to a coronavirus outbreak on board, will send its 2,400 passengers to at least four quarantine centers. The crew of 1,100 will be quarantined and treated on board the ship.

I can only assume that the taxpayers will be funding the quarantine for those 3,600 people. And not only that, imagine how many federal (and state and local) emergency response assets will be used up in that process. And then factor in the number of federal/state/local health care responders who will then need to be quarantined. All at a time when those assets are needed in dozens if not hundreds of other locations in the US. To go on a cruise now, or the continue operating the cruise ships, is the epitome of selfishness at this point.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E

Well, there are two cases in neighboring towns closing two schools.  One school is less than 1-1/2 miles from home.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

Now THIS just might work.


----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## mudpuppy

Dleg said:


> Honestly they should just stop all cruises. Think about the numbers here. From the same Reuters story I quoted from above:
> 
> The cruise ship Grand Princess, barred from returning to San Francisco last week due to a coronavirus outbreak on board, will send its 2,400 passengers to at least four quarantine centers. The crew of 1,100 will be quarantined and treated on board the ship.
> 
> I can only assume that the taxpayers will be funding the quarantine for those 3,600 people. And not only that, imagine how many federal (and state and local) emergency response assets will be used up in that process. And then factor in the number of federal/state/local health care responders who will then need to be quarantined. All at a time when those assets are needed in dozens if not hundreds of other locations in the US. To go on a cruise now, or the continue operating the cruise ships, is the epitome of selfishness at this point.




I just booked a cruise last week.....

It's not until December.  I'm hoping the epidemic is over by then.  I'm going to hold off buying the plane tickets to get to Miami until some of this settles out.


----------



## mudpuppy

@Road Guy How much do you think I can get for this in Denver?  I wonder if it's worth renting a U-haul and driving it over.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

I've got a cruise coming up the first week of April - simple Caribbean itinerary. Yesterday  the State Department recommending citizens against cruising. I'm not worried about getting sick on the cruise. I am mildly worried that TPTB temporarily ceasing all cruises.


----------



## txjennah PE

My coworker is staying home since his kids had to take an e-learning day - a kid at another school in their district tested positive for the virus.  So far I haven't seen the panic translate to the grocery stores yet, but I could definitely tell the rice/canned vegetable aisles had been hit hard.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> Hey I wonder how my 401k is doing


re-upping


----------



## Road Guy

@mudpuppy - Are other places going crazy over TP or just Denver?  

Over the weekend I heard costco was out, but saw a normal amount at Kroger and Wal Mart - 

Since no one is shaking hands, its best to just go Saudi Arabia style anyways..


----------



## jeb6294

Meh...cruise ships have always been nothing more than giant floating petri dishes.


----------



## Road Guy

we have a place rented in the Keys mid june for 10 days - Ive paid half the fee and its non refundable - I think the other half is due upon arrival but I guess if the shit is hitting the fan we just eat what I have already paid, the flights are SW, and assuming they dont go out of business I can re use them.

My niece is a flight attendant with Delta and she is being pushed to go on furlough


----------



## jeb6294

We must be running behind because we got our travel guidance email Friday at 6:30pm.

Not only did I get screwed out of a New Mexico trip, now we have to see if we're even going to Portsmouth.  Domestic travel is not restricted, but OPM is recommending that travel be reduced "as appropriate", whatever than means.  It's the middle-of-nowhere, Ohio...I strongly suspect that my chances of getting stuck by a used needle are greater than getting Corona.


----------



## mudpuppy

Road Guy said:


> we have a place rented in the Keys mid june for 10 days - Ive paid half the fee and its non refundable - I think the other half is due upon arrival but I guess if the shit is hitting the fan we just eat what I have already paid, the flights are SW, and assuming they dont go out of business I can re use them.
> 
> My niece is a flight attendant with Delta and she is being pushed to go on furlough


Just keep in mind with SW, if you cancel your flights, you have to reuse the credit within 12 months of when you first bought the original ticket.  I got burned by this when I booked a flight with a credit, and the flight was cancelled and I HAD to use the credit within a couple months.


----------



## txjennah PE




----------



## Orchid PE

Surprisingly, nobody is really acting any differently here, even with confirmed cases a few counties away.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

We have zero cases of coronavirus in louisiana. But yeah, stores have been selling out of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, and bottled water. It's not like a panicked run on stuff, but people seems to be stocking up.

Also, hurricane season is only a few months away, so I feel like people are just starting their yearly hurricane prep early


----------



## Road Guy

I guess if this is still an issue 12 months from June I have bigger problems than $1500 bucks in airline tickets -

How did Italy get so blown up? Did they have a shit load of people go to China?


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Road Guy said:


> How did Italy get so blown up? Did they have a shit load of people go to China?


Normal flow of tourists to/from Asia. But Italy has a notoriously poor public health system - at least with respect to communicable disease. They simply don't have the infrastructure or governmental controls to deal with an epidemic appropriately.


----------



## JayKay PE

JayKay PE said:


> Yeah, my sister and I are trying to convince them.  My sister worked in NYC DEP Haz response/CDC team and she was like, "Italy's public health sector is really weak.  They're not going to be able to contain this" and that her confidence about it not spreading in Europe went down the crapper once she saw it landed in Italy.  And now Italy has 12 confirmed deaths linked to the virus.  Uhhhhhhhhhhh.  Elderly parents please don't travel into a shit show.  This is just like when they landed in Vegas like 3-hours after the rooftop shooting in 2017.


@RBHeadge PE, that's pretty much exactly what my sister said at the beginning of this.

Also, didn't know what everyone was talking about with S&amp;P...and then I saw the shit-show with Russia and Saudi Arabia and...yeah.


----------



## Orchid PE

JayKay PE said:


> Also, didn't know what everyone was talking about with S&amp;P


Well from Feb 19 - Feb 28 it dropped 12.76%. Essentially all the gains since Oct 2019 were gone in just a few days.


----------



## JayKay PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Well from Feb 19 - Feb 28 it dropped 12.76%. Essentially all the gains since Oct 2019 were gone in just a few days.


I just keep shoveling money into it from my paycheck.  I've got at least 25+ years until retirement.  I'll start worrying about that number when I get closer.  Until then-shovel money in, buy more shares.


----------



## Supe

The organization that hosts my Miami trip in April just pulled the plug.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> *We have zero cases of coronavirus in louisiana.* But yeah, stores have been selling out of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, and bottled water. It's not like a panicked run on stuff, but people seems to be stocking up.
> 
> Also, hurricane season is only a few months away, so I feel like people are just starting their yearly hurricane prep early


I spoke too soon...

https://www.wdsu.com/article/louisiana-governor-confirms-first-presumptive-case-of-coronavirus/


----------



## mudpuppy

Road Guy said:


> I guess if this is still an issue 12 months from June I have bigger problems than $1500 bucks in airline tickets -




It's 12 months from when you first bought the ticket.  So if you bought the tickets in December for a flight in June, you have until December to use it, even if you don't cancel the flight until May.


----------



## Road Guy

fuckers!  - I am cancelling that SW card today!  But same sort of sentiment about bigger problems.. - We were supposed to fly to Tampa then visit some family in Gainesville before going to the Keys.  

Where we go is not near Key West (Cruise Ship central) so Id like to think it would be okay but just getting there and back through Tampa and Fort Lauderdale might be risky - and I dont want to risk being infected or infecting other people if its not essential travel (unlike how most boomers are acting right now)


----------



## Road Guy

So we just got a weird email "ordering" us to take our laptops home every day in the event the decision was made that we needed to work from home full time....


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> So we just got a weird email "ordering" us to take our laptops home every day in the event the decision was made that we needed to work from home full time....


But don't you have to go through the security training about NOT taking your laptop home because everything gets stolen and blah blah blah. 

We just got the message that three members of our legislature, which is currently here in town still in session, were at the same Ted Cruz party. They aren't being quarantined, though.


----------



## Roarbark

@Dleg Another good option.


----------



## User1

mudpuppy said:


> It's 12 months from when you first bought the ticket.  So if you bought the tickets in December for a flight in June, you have until December to use it, even if you don't cancel the flight until May.


i bet with this shit going on you could sweet talk them into extending the deadline. i've seen datapoints of success with this.


----------



## User1

csb said:


> But don't you have to go through the security training about NOT taking your laptop home because everything gets stolen and blah blah blah.
> 
> We just got the message that three members of our legislature, which is currently here in town still in session, were at the same Ted Cruz party. They aren't being quarantined, though.


makes total sense.


----------



## Roarbark

csb said:


> But don't you have to go through the security training about NOT taking your laptop home because everything gets stolen and blah blah blah.
> 
> We just got the message that three members of our legislature, which is currently here in town still in session, were at the same Ted Cruz party. They aren't being quarantined, though.


Ain't no party like a Ted Cruz party. Oh boy.


----------



## Dleg

Yeah I am dreading the whole travel issue. We recently booked a trip to my daughter's graduation in Alaska for the very end of April, with a stop in Denver to see the family. No foreign stops, but long overseas flight nonetheless. Now I am worried that all air travel will shut down and won't be back up by then, and my biggest problem is my son. That trip is basically the only thing he is looking forward to in life right now. 16 years old, autistic, and fighting off major depression / emotional problems right now, with meds, psychiatrists, etc. A cancellation would be hell for him.


----------



## P-E

Dleg said:


> Yeah I am dreading the whole travel issue. We recently booked a trip to my daughter's graduation in Alaska for the very end of April, with a stop in Denver to see the family. No foreign stops, but long overseas flight nonetheless. Now I am worried that all air travel will shut down and won't be back up by then, and my biggest problem is my son. That trip is basically the only thing he is looking forward to in life right now. 16 years old, autistic, and fighting off major depression / emotional problems right now, with meds, psychiatrists, etc. A cancellation would be hell for him.


That’s a real bummer.  We’re supposed to go to universal next month.  I’m not seeing that happening.


----------



## P-E

this really is the apocalypse      CNN reports:

A Komodo dragon with no male partner gave birth to three hatchlings


----------



## Dleg

Nope. Just the birth of lizard Jesus. He has come to save us all.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## Road Guy

Someone showed me the us air traffic website today- pretty much leads me to believe there is no real way to contain this and sooner or later we’re all either going to catch it and we’ll have various levels of being sick - 

Seems like unless you have this shit or sat next to someone who did we should just go on about life and see what the fuck happens yo?

At the gym with my (Trauma) Doc buddy after work and he was like . Don’t worry about right now, worry about when it comes back in late fall and everyone is not washing their hands / hoarding TP/ etc....


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Someone showed me the us air traffic website today- pretty much leads me to believe there is no real way to contain this and sooner or later we’re all either going to catch it and we’ll have various levels of being sick -
> 
> Seems like unless you have this shit or sat next to someone who did we should just go on about life and see what the fuck happens yo?
> 
> At the gym with my (Trauma) Doc buddy after work and he was like . Don’t worry about right now, worry about when it comes back in late fall and everyone is not washing their hands / hoarding TP/ etc....


Pandemics often come in waves.  Usually the second is worse than the first.   Eventually enough get it so it makes it harder for those who didn’t get it to run into someone  that has it.   Almost want to get it over with.  If you run out of TP there’s always the Washington Post.


----------



## Road Guy

I’d almost rather get it now before the good nurses are either burned out or have it themselves in a few months...


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

We recently booked a May vacation to Hawaii.    :blink:          :brickwall:            :dunno:


----------



## Roarbark

jean15paul_PE said:


> We recently booked a May vacation to Hawaii.    :blink:          :brickwall:            :dunno:


Hawaiian airlines just put out an email that they're waiving change fees for a while in light of the COVID uncertainties. Depending on who you booked with, you may be able to get something similar. They also gave info on their air purification/disinfecting methodologies put in place for the pandemic, which was mildly interesting.

We've got a state of emergency here as well, but only 2 confirmed cases so far. Governor actually declared a State of Emergency before we had ANY confirmed cases, but after a ship with a later confirmed case cruised through 4 islands... (Thanks dudette/dude).


----------



## Dleg

Well now - take this with a huge grain of salt - I did some extra reading yesterday from REPUTABLE sources (Johns Hopkins, CDC, etc.) and one hope I came away with is that warm, humid climates like Hawaii's are not conducive to the spread of influenza and other coronaviruses. There have even been lab studies with guinea pigs where, beyond a certain temperature and humidity (but still within common tropical ranges), influenza infections between the animals drop to zero.  So maybe - just maybe - places like Hawaii, Guam, etc. are more safe than colder places like Seattle, etc. But again - huge grain of salt. Nobody knows for sure yet how this virus behaves, but it is essentially the same little package of proteins, so it seems reasonable to assume it is equally as vulnerable as those other viruses.

The other thing I found was that all that talk about children getting the virus and dying is BS. A pretty sound study was just concluded between a Chinese and US university that found that children do in fact get infected at nearly the same rate as adults (only 7% or so for those living with a confirmed COVID-19 case - really not terrible odds), BUT they have mild or no symptoms. Which makes them potentially great spreaders (and hence the value of school closures?) but NOTat risk of serious disease or death.

Edit - here's the article, summarizing the results of a study by Johns Hopkins and a Chinese university:  https://www.wired.com/story/kids-can-get-covid-19-they-just-dont-get-that-sick/


----------



## ulua808

P-E said:


> Almost want to get it over with.


No you shouldn’t. On the Chinese news, the decline towards death - if you get this twice - is faster than the first time. The first time, the virus goes straight for your lungs and damages it in many people. Some people in the first time fall dead in the the streets when the virus attacks their heart. The best is to not get this by following the dynamic (changing) recommendations. I’m pretty sure masks may eventually be required wearing when the country gets enough. They are already considered very useful, even for unaffected people, in Asia. Already had some of my family members in China offer to send masks to us.


----------



## Dleg

^I like how you present all of that as fact. Not even an attempt at a caveat.


----------



## ulua808

Dleg said:


> one hope I came away with is that warm, humid climates like Hawaii's are not conducive to the spread of influenza and other coronaviruses.


Many people get the flu every year in Hawaii, and it is pretty widespread still. And many people still have colds even though temperatures are comfortable enough to wear t-shirts and shorts.


----------



## Dleg

I get the feeling that you lean more toward panic.


----------



## ulua808

Dleg said:


> I get the feeling that you lean more toward panic.


No. I am super excited about this. In the fall of 2017 (Rosh Hashana to be exact), I was honestly expecting the rapture to happen. Since then, after the election of Trump, things have gotten really good and I sort of dozed off at the wheel, so to speak. This coronavirus has all the makings of putting us back on track to the Bible prophecies given in the books of Ezekiel, Psalms, Daniel and Revelation. Perhaps this will crash the world economy and mr. 666 will come on the scene with all the answers. In any case, the dynamics this has caused appears irreversible at this point. We are moving toward a one world system where TPTB will probably scare everyone into a cashless system (maybe by saying that cash can carry deadly viruses) and provide all with the false hopes of peace and security  (per the Bible, not my words).

Currently, I think the rapture will happen when the fullness of the gentiles is reached, that is, a last person accepting Christ as his/her Savior. It could happen at any time, and with the current environment of fear, more are turning to the Lord every hour.


----------



## ulua808

Dleg said:


> ^I like how you present all of that as fact. Not even an attempt at a caveat.
> 
> View attachment 16683


Oh, sorry. Just saw the small arrow pointing up. Just sharing what I see on the news coming mostly out of Taiwan. A lot of similar “scary” info can also be found by following Dr. Eric Ding on Twitter (Harvard guy). His predictions are pretty dire for the US, which he says may be greater than 10k infected right now.


----------



## Orchid PE

Lol This is funnier than the memes!


----------



## Orchid PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Well from Feb 19 - Feb 28 it dropped 12.76%. Essentially all the gains since Oct 2019 were gone in just a few days.


And now all the gains since May 2019 are gone.


----------



## Master slacker

Chattaneer PE said:


> And now all the gains since May 2019 are gone.


It's not the corona causing the stocks to drop.  It's the oil fight going with Saudi Arabia tanking the prices.


----------



## txjennah PE

ulua808 said:


> No. I am super excited about this. In the fall of 2017 (Rosh Hashana to be exact), I was honestly expecting the rapture to happen. Since then, after the election of Trump, things have gotten really good and I sort of dozed off at the wheel, so to speak. This coronavirus has all the makings of putting us back on track to the Bible prophecies given in the books of Ezekiel, Psalms, Daniel and Revelation. Perhaps this will crash the world economy and mr. 666 will come on the scene with all the answers. In any case, the dynamics this has caused appears irreversible at this point. We are moving toward a one world system where TPTB will probably scare everyone into a cashless system (maybe by saying that cash can carry deadly viruses) and provide all with the false hopes of peace and security  (per the Bible, not my words).
> 
> Currently, I think the rapture will happen when the fullness of the gentiles is reached, that is, a last person accepting Christ as his/her Savior. It could happen at any time, and with the current environment of fear, more are turning to the Lord every hour.


What the shit


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## RBHeadge PE

Master slacker said:


> It's not the corona causing the stocks to drop.  It's the oil fight going with Saudi Arabia tanking the prices.


Which was precipitated by the lower demand for oil caused as a result of Covid-19. But beyond that, it's not like the global response to the underlying issue was instilling much confidence in the market anyway.

It's going to be a turbulent and rough for the markets for a while.


----------



## JayKay PE

*hears about oil fighting and immediately thinks of Turkish oil fighting*

Why can't the Russians and Saudis take a leaf from this book?  Much more exciting and less stock market drama?


----------



## Orchid PE

JayKay PE said:


> *hears about oil fighting and immediately thinks of Turkish oil fighting*
> 
> Why can't the Russians and Saudis take a leaf from this book?  Much more exciting and less stock market drama?


Put some spoiler tags or something! Even a NSFW note. Geez.


----------



## JayKay PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Put some spoiler tags or something! Even a NSFW note. Geez.


NSFW-my ass!  Turkish oil fighting is a national sport and should not be shammed for doing things differently!  I have to see a bunch of gross basketball gifs, you can see a gif of a sport that celebrates the heritage of Turkey!


----------



## Orchid PE

JayKay PE said:


> NSFW-my ass!  Turkish oil fighting is a national sport and should not be shammed for doing things differently!  I have to see a bunch of gross basketball gifs, you can see a gif of a sport that celebrates the heritage of Turkey!


Just because it's SFW in Turkey doesn't mean it's SFW here in the USA! It's almost like you're trying to get me fired! Stop exclaiming at me I didn't do anything wrong!


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Chattaneer PE said:


> Just because it's SFW in Turkey doesn't mean it's SFW here in the USA! It's almost like you're trying to get me fired! Stop exclaiming at me I didn't do anything wrong!


----------



## JayKay PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Just because it's SFW in Turkey doesn't mean it's SFW here in the USA! It's almost like you're trying to get me fired! Stop exclaiming at me I didn't do anything wrong!


IT'S CULTURE.  YOU CAN'T GET FIRED FOR CULTURE IN THE USA.

YOU DID EVERYTHING WRONG.  YOU LOST THE TURKEY GAME.


----------



## Orchid PE

JayKay PE said:


> IT'S CULTURE.  YOU CAN'T GET FIRED FOR CULTURE IN THE USA.
> 
> YOU DID EVERYTHING WRONG.  YOU LOST THE TURKEY GAME.


I BEG TO DIFFER! TENNESSEE IS AN AT-WILL STATE! NOW YOU'RE YELLING!

P.S. WE STOPPED USING DOUBLE SPACES AFTER PERIODS WHEN WE STOPPED USING TYPEWRITERS!


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

> 1 minute ago, Chattaneer PE said:P.S. WE STOPPED USING DOUBLE SPACES AFTER PERIODS WHEN WE STOPPED USING TYPEWRITERS!


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Chattaneer PE said:


> P.S. WE STOPPED USING DOUBLE SPACES AFTER PERIODS WHEN WE STOPPED USING TYPEWRITERS!


(This is what I was saying thank you to)


----------



## mudpuppy

tj_PE said:


> i bet with this shit going on you could sweet talk them into extending the deadline. i've seen datapoints of success with this.




With Southwest I wouldn't count on it.  I booked a flight on a voucher from a flight I had previously changed.  The new flight I booked was cancelled due to the 737-MAX issues and rebooked the next day.  Then the rebooked flight was cancelled due to maintenance issues, and they didn't have any way to get us to our destination until 12 hours before we had to return home.  Southwest wasn't sympathetic to this situation and would do nothing for us, even though it was completely their fault.  They also wouldn't refund the ticket because it was booked on a voucher.

Contrast that to Delta's stellar service... when we flew to Denver and found out that my father-in-law had a stroke and we had to immediately fly to Atlanta, they bent over backwards to change our tickets with no cost to us.

It's unlikely I'll fly with Southwest again unless I have no other choice.  Their fares are generally the same as the other airlines (at least from around here), their service when something goes wrong is sub-par, and since they don't interline with any other airlines, if their flight is cancelled, they can't put you on another airline to get you to your destination like almost all other airlines do.  Luckily in the case above we were able to get on a flight from Delta at our own cost and get to my wife's granny's birthday after all, despite Southwest.



Road Guy said:


> Someone showed me the us air traffic website today- pretty much leads me to believe there is no real way to contain this and sooner or later we’re all either going to catch it and we’ll have various levels of being sick -
> 
> Seems like unless you have this shit or sat next to someone who did we should just go on about life and see what the fuck happens yo?




That's pretty much where I'm at.  I think we're all going to get it eventually so let's get it over with before Christmas.



Chattaneer PE said:


> P.S. WE STOPPED USING DOUBLE SPACES AFTER PERIODS WHEN WE STOPPED USING TYPEWRITERS!




BS!  Yes I did learn on a typewriter, but we still used two spaces after a sentence for decades after word processing software came out.  It's just the lazy millennials who can't put the second space in.   ld-025:


----------



## User1

Dleg said:


> So maybe - just maybe - places like Hawaii, Guam, etc. are more safe than colder places like Seattle, etc.


y u calling me out yo


----------



## Orchid PE

mudpuppy said:


> BS!  Yes I did learn on a typewriter, but we still used two spaces after a sentence for decades after word processing software came out.  It's just the lazy millennials who can't put the second space in.


False. Regardless of how long people continued to do it, it is not proper, and has not been since we moved to word processing.

https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/two-spaces-after-period/


----------



## User1

mudpuppy said:


> With Southwest I wouldn't count on it.  I booked a flight on a voucher from a flight I had previously changed.  The new flight I booked was cancelled due to the 737-MAX issues and rebooked the next day.  Then the rebooked flight was cancelled due to maintenance issues, and they didn't have any way to get us to our destination until 12 hours before we had to return home.  Southwest wasn't sympathetic to this situation and would do nothing for us, even though it was completely their fault.  They also wouldn't refund the ticket because it was booked on a voucher.


that's weird. i've always had good success with southwest. and gotten what i needed to make things work. but i do really love delta. especially once my southwest points are used up.


----------



## User1

mudpuppy said:


> BS!  Yes I did learn on a typewriter, but we still used two spaces after a sentence for decades after word processing software came out.  It's just the lazy millennials who can't put the second space in.   ld-025:


It's a LITERAL waste of space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think it stemmed from people trying to fill out their required 5 pages of essay. MORE CONTENT LESS WASTE I SAY

or something.


----------



## mudpuppy

Chattaneer PE said:


> False. Regardless of how long people continued to do it, it is not proper, and has not been since we moved to word processing.




Language and punctuation are social constructs and as such, there is no one authority on what is proper.  We'd probably be better off arguing politics than this.  I will continue using two spaces because my brain has been hardwired for it for 26 years.


----------



## Orchid PE

mudpuppy said:


> Language and punctuation are social constructs and as such, there is no one authority on what is proper.


Wrong.


----------



## JayKay PE

I am sorry for double space discourse.  I will not change my horrible Turkish oil wrestling, double-spacing, ways.  This is the way I learned to type while in forums and writing horrible fanfiction of my youth!  I AM OKAY WITH MY TYPING APPEARING TO BE BOOMER-ESQUE.

*cries in Oxford comma*


----------



## jeb6294

State of Ohio confirmed 3 cases and the governor immediately declared a state of emergency....


----------



## Road Guy

gotta secure them federal dollars!


----------



## mudpuppy

Chattaneer PE said:


> Wrong.




So are you claiming there is there a physical law governing punctuation that can be discovered by the scientific method?  Or it's dictated by God?  Or you just like to be annoying?


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Has this thread made the HoF yet?


----------



## txjennah PE

jeb6294 said:


> State of Ohio confirmed 3 cases and the governor immediately declared a state of emergency....


I have a coworker in Ohio who is self-quarantining after a family member came back from Italy...hopefully they are not one of the confirmed cases.


----------



## jeb6294

Two of them, surprisingly enough, just got back from a cruise on the Nile and the third from some conference in D.C.  There are 5 more people being checked, but I think they all involved people coming back from China recently.


----------



## JayKay PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> Has this thread made the HoF yet?


Oh dear, I hope not.


----------



## jeb6294

When I got in to work this morning, I had 4 emails about how to telework and invites to meetings about teleworking.(1)(2)Fortunately, even though I'm too new to start teleworking, my supervisor had me set up for it already in case a situation came up that I needed to.  All we need is a card reader and we can log in to the system with our badge on our personal PC.


----------



## mudpuppy

jeb6294 said:


> State of Ohio confirmed 3 cases and the governor immediately declared a state of emergency....




I saw that and thought the same... but I was supposed to be going to Cleveland area for a work meeting in three weeks, which was just cancelled due to this.


----------



## txjennah PE

This is comforting.

https://www.wthr.com/article/she-thinks-she-might-have-coronavirus-state-wont-respond-her-email

Woooo Indiana.


----------



## jeb6294

txjennah PE said:


> This is comforting.
> 
> https://www.wthr.com/article/she-thinks-she-might-have-coronavirus-state-wont-respond-her-email
> 
> Woooo Indiana.


Despite what the talking heads in Indiana are saying, I'm sure they are completely swamped because people are stupid and overreact to everything and still insist on getting their news/medical advice from Facebook.  I'm guessing 99.5% of the calls they get are:
  "Have you been to China/Italy/on a cruise/etc. recently?"
  "uhhhh, no"
  "Have you been around anyone who's been to China/Italy/on a cruise/etc. recently?"
  "ummmmm, no"
  "Yeah, you've got a cold."

Followed by 15 minutes of trying to convince someone that what they read on Facebook isn't true.


----------



## txjennah PE

jeb6294 said:


> Despite what the talking heads in Indiana are saying, I'm sure they are completely swamped because people are stupid and overreact to everything and still insist on getting their news/medical advice from Facebook.  I'm guessing 99.5% of the calls they get are:
> "Have you been to China/Italy/on a cruise/etc. recently?"
> "uhhhh, no"
> "Have you been around anyone who's been to China/Italy/on a cruise/etc. recently?"
> "ummmmm, no"
> "Yeah, you've got a cold."
> 
> Followed by 15 minutes of trying to convince someone that what they read on Facebook isn't true.


This just shows how ill-equipped our country is to deal with a pandemic.  And unfortunately, sounds like the person in question did travel to a conference and has legitimate reason to suspect she has Coronavirus.


----------



## Road Guy

Not sure what they can tell her via email anyways?

If she has the energy to call the news she should probably self care at home like those blokes at the CDC recommend.


----------



## txjennah PE

Road Guy said:


> Not sure what they can tell her via email anyways?
> 
> If she has the energy to call the news she should probably self care at home like those blokes at the CDC recommend.


Yeah but sounds like her elderly mom has it too, I can understand why she's trying to push for someone to talk with her. Plus, who knows how many people she may have potentially exposed before realizing she may have the virus.


----------



## Road Guy

Then she should drive to the hospital - they can’t tell you anything over the phone or email.


----------



## txjennah PE

Right. But it is still something that the Public Health Department should respond to ASAP so they can determine if/when she potentially exposed other people to the virus.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont disagree but........."Government Employees"   - I think most people that work for a local public health agency are the ones who couldn't get jobs at a nursing home (basically the lowest level of care possible)  - mainly I am just saying I am  not shocked that staff from a local county or city health department would suck at their jobs..


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Roarbark

jeb6294 said:


> State of Ohio confirmed 3 cases and the governor immediately declared a state of emergency....





txjennah PE said:


> This is comforting.
> 
> https://www.wthr.com/article/she-thinks-she-might-have-coronavirus-state-wont-respond-her-email
> 
> Woooo Indiana.


HI still on the leaderboard with 0 confirmed at time of declaration... Some info in our main paper this morning about a person with COVID symptoms (after travelling back from Singapore) being refused tests however... Which, like @txjennah PE said is... very comforting... HI stands to lose a lot in Tourism $$$, so there is actually an industry interest in minimizing our numbers.


----------



## txjennah PE

Roarbark said:


> HI still on the leaderboard with 0 confirmed at time of declaration... Some info in our main paper this morning about a person with COVID symptoms (after travelling back from Singapore) being refused tests however... Which, like @txjennah PE said is... very comforting... HI stands to lose a lot in Tourism $$$, so there is actually an industry interest in minimizing our numbers.


Oh no ::face palm:: why wouldn't that person want to go get tested?


----------



## Road Guy

I think the main places out of TP are costco / Sams / etc - seems to be plenty of the white stuff at grocery stores &amp; even weird places like home depot and office depot.

I cant find any hand sanitize though - my youngest kid is a gerrm freak so I feel bad I dont have any - I am going to look through my camping supplies tonight and see if there is any there - 

I hate to admit that I agree with the CDC on something, but I read through their website - Our work actually made it a mandatory training today, lol, but I felt better honestly - I wish someone would just read the "how to self care at home page" to the US, maybe have Shakira or someone read it out in her half time dress so people will pay attention.


----------



## Roarbark

txjennah PE said:


> Oh no ::face palm:: why wouldn't that person want to go get tested?


Apologies, I wasn't clear. The person was trying to get tested, and got refused by Dept. of Health, or whatever org. made the decision. Forget what the reasoning was. Not high risk/pre-existing conditions or something? Either way, seems... imprudent.


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> maybe have Shakira or someone read it out in her half time dress so people will pay attention.


You may be on to something.


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> I think the main places out of TP are costco / Sams / etc - seems to be plenty of the white stuff at grocery stores &amp; even weird places like home depot and office depot.
> 
> I cant find any hand sanitize though - my youngest kid is a gerrm freak so I feel bad I dont have any - I am going to look through my camping supplies tonight and see if there is any there -
> 
> I hate to admit that I agree with the CDC on something, but I read through their website - Our work actually made it a mandatory training today, lol, but I felt better honestly - I wish someone would just read the "how to self care at home page" to the US, maybe have Shakira or someone read it out in her half time dress so people will pay attention.


I've used a lot of stuff accessible from this page to provide training at my office. Going to a nursing home this afternoon to calm fears about "what do we do with the waste??!!!" (you treat it just like any other medical waste).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/index.html


----------



## wilheldp_PE

jeb6294 said:


> State of Ohio confirmed 3 cases and the governor immediately declared a state of emergency....


Then Kentucky swoops in and says "hold my beer."  They declared a state of emergency after the 1st confirmed case.  And Berea College just announced that they are cancelling the rest of the semester and sending all students home from the dorms.


----------



## justanotherguy808

Covid-19 shutting down PE exam April 2020.  See NCEES spokesperson discuss it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ


----------



## Dleg

I just had a meeting with a couple of engineers from Korea, and did a pretty thorough deep cleaning after they left the office!  We discussed the coronavirus on their way out of our office, and they had been outside Korea for a month now, so probably pretty low to no risk. So I let them drive out of sight before I started cleaning the doorknob.


----------



## txjennah PE

Roarbark said:


> Apologies, I wasn't clear. The person was trying to get tested, and got refused by Dept. of Health, or whatever org. made the decision. Forget what the reasoning was. Not high risk/pre-existing conditions or something? Either way, seems... imprudent.


Oh no!   I hope that person is in self-quarantine.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E

My town just reported 2 cases.  It seems to be in every town in the county now.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

I am coming down with some cold/flu symptoms.  I just told my boss I'm bugging out of here early today and not coming back in the rest of the week (skipping a company meeting tomorrow).  He was fine with that and told me that what I was proposing is what would be presented at the meeting (i.e., you start getting sick, don't come in).


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Ble_PE

We have several confirmed cases now in NC and a state of emergency has been declared as well. A co-worker has a friend that works for a company that had 5 people test positive for the virus and now they have all been told to work from home for 2 weeks.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

P-E said:


> My town just reported 2 cases.  It seems to be in every town in the county now.


It's all about flattening the curve now.


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I cant find any hand sanitize though - my youngest kid is a gerrm freak so I feel bad I dont have any - I am going to look through my camping supplies tonight and see if there is any there -


Just make your own...all it is is 2/3 cup of alcohol mixed with 1/3 cup aloe and a few drops of essential oils if you want it to smell pretty.


----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I hate to admit that I agree with the CDC on something, but I read through their website - Our work actually made it a mandatory training today, lol, but I felt better honestly - I wish someone would just read the "how to self care at home page" to the US, maybe have Shakira or someone read it out in her half time dress so people will pay attention.


This

If people would actually bother to do some actual research rather than immediately flip out over something they read on FB, they would see that it is not the world ending plague that the news is trying to make it out to be.  News flash...news agencies are solely concerned with making $$$.  Their MO is to blow issues completely out of proportion to increase viewers.


----------



## P-E

I was assuming this would be like the 1968 pandemic.   I asked my dad about it and he didn’t remember it.  I guess it didn’t make much of an impression on him.


----------



## jeb6294




----------



## RBHeadge PE

jeb6294 said:


> Just make your own...all it is is 2/3 cup of alcohol mixed with 1/3 cup aloe and a few drops of essential oils if you want it to smell pretty.


The final alcohol content of the product needs to be &gt;=60% to be effective.

Corona viruses get their name from the lipid layer surrounding it's RNA particle package. It's the "crown". Dispersants (i.e. soap and other household detergents) break down the lipid layer, effectively killing the virus. It's more effective than alcohol based cleaners, and I haven't heard of anyone making a run on dishwasher detergents.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2020/03/09/masturbation-can-help-people-fight-the-coronavirus/


----------



## Road Guy

So one of the less desirable hospital systems to work in the Denver area came out with a good policy change for their staff, if anyone gets infected &amp; its really "when staff gets infected" they will be covered by the employer and not have to use PTO / Vacation / Sick time to recover - which I recognize is because they will need their staff back at work ASAP - the place my wife works and the larger teaching university hospitals haven't enacted something similar (as of yet)

I told some of my wife's work friends last night that now is they time they should just all call in sick until they get a 200% raise minimum - but they are better people than I am..


----------



## Road Guy

Dean Agnostic said:


> View attachment 16702
> View attachment 16703
> 
> 
> View attachment 16704
> 
> 
> View attachment 16705


If China is being truthful with their numbers I guess that is encouraging?


----------



## wilheldp_PE

All the Minute Clinics around here have a 2+ hour wait for walk-ins.  The first appointment I could get was for 2:30 (3 hours after I made the appointment).  I wonder if that is related to COVID or if I just live amongst a bunch of sick mfers.


----------



## Road Guy

sorry but ..     https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/12/13/health-rankings  Kentucky 45 out of 50 least healthy states... 

But it seems like those clinics are always at least an hour?


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> If China is being truthful with their numbers I guess that is encouraging?


I've been ignoring these.  United States is up to 30 deaths so who knows how wrong the rest of the numbers are.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I was planning on asking my boss to send me to CAASE20 conference in June. I'm a little concerned that that might end up being peak US coronavirus time.


I am now assuming that this will get canceled.

... also my son's summer camp


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

V. suspish.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

https://imgur.com/gallery/pYzyd4r


----------



## Master slacker

Road Guy said:


> sorry but ..     https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/12/13/health-rankings  Kentucky 45 out of 50 least healthy states...
> 
> But it seems like those clinics are always at least an hour?


And here I am thinking, "Oh snap!  With only five states lower, I'm sure I can gloat over Kentucky with this state statistic!  roflcopter!"

Nope


----------



## Road Guy

lol

Everyone here in CO thinks they have nothing to worry about because of their fitness level! -  yeah good luck with using the downward dog pose to chase off an old man who coughs on you at the weed store!!!!


----------



## Orchid PE

The TP bandit has struck here.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

I don't have coronavirus...or the flu.  Doc says its probably just a run-of-the-mill virus.  Still not going to work the rest of the week.

In other news, the NCAA tournament will be played without fans in the stands.  I think that is going to affect the players used to having lots of background noise, but I'm not sure which teams, if any, it will benefit.


----------



## Road Guy

Man so me and the wife can go to Hawaii for like $1100 bucks airfare and hotel next week? They only have 2 cases? Feeling like

Being a millennial and saying what the fuck?

If we’re all going to end up cooped up in our houses for a month anyways....


----------



## cement

Road Guy said:


> Man so me and the wife can go to Hawaii for like $1100 bucks airfare and hotel next week? They only have 2 cases? Feeling like
> 
> Being a millennial and saying what the fuck?
> 
> If we’re all going to end up cooped up in our houses for a month anyways....


leave the kids a pallet of toilet paper and go for it!


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> Man so me and the wife can go to Hawaii for like $1100 bucks airfare and hotel next week? They only have 2 cases? Feeling like
> 
> Being a millennial and saying what the fuck?
> 
> If we’re all going to end up cooped up in our houses for a month anyways....


FYI, my best guess is we in reality have more than 2 cases. They only recently (paper this morning) started expanding testing, I believe it's been fairly limited until now. That said, I think there's a certain amount of fearmongering going on here, and personally (as a young foolish healthy male) I wouldn't cancel my own travel plans.

If I had any vacation at all, I might take a trip. $250 round trip to Seattle? $400 to East coast? Whooo!


----------



## csb

I'm sick and I feel like such a hipster trying to explain it's not the new trendy sick.


----------



## kevo_55

Chattaneer PE said:


> The TP bandit has struck here.
> 
> View attachment 16720


Hey, the left the ecco TP!

I suppose that the bandit has his/her limits.


----------



## Dleg

Yeah but just give it time. Eventually you won't even be able to find sand paper at Home Depot.


----------



## csb

@JayKay PE Does the new travel ban encompass your parents' travel dates?


----------



## Road Guy

I guess we’ll pass on Hawaii - tough to leave even grown kids who live in your house if society is going to break down...

I don’t get cancelling college - your just moving people from one place to another -maybe lock down the colleges but just closing them will end up with those kids going other places...


----------



## Road Guy

Supposed to go to a local conference tomorrow - Defin gonna try and keep my distance from folks / leave early and go get some chicky nuggets.....


----------



## NikR_PE

Road Guy said:


> don’t get cancelling colleg


They dont want to lose all the old faculty in one swoop.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> sorry but ..     https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/12/13/health-rankings  Kentucky 45 out of 50 least healthy states...
> 
> But it seems like those clinics are always at least an hour?


With the COV scare, why is WA still in single digits?


----------



## Dleg

I don't get canceling the entire NBA season. I can see leaving the fans out. But the players don't exactly fall into the most at-risk category here.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> @JayKay PE Does the new travel ban encompass your parents' travel dates?


I think we're at the point that I'm going to send my brother-in-law to the house to steal the car or something because my dad is like, "We're traveling April 20th, that's after the 30-day ban!" WHY IS HE DOING THESE THINGS.  NOBODY WANTS HIM TO GO.  MY MOM WHO IS TRAVELING WITH HIM NO LONGER WANTS TO GO.  THIS IS MADNESS.  WHY IS HIS DADNESS TAKING OVER HIS COMMON SENSE?


----------



## aog

^That's what dads do.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Family intervention time?


----------



## mudpuppy

Dleg said:


> I don't get canceling the entire NBA season. I can see leaving the fans out. But the players don't exactly fall into the most at-risk category here.




Except they say one of the players tested positive.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

mudpuppy said:


> Except they say one of the players tested positive.


Multiple players now.


----------



## User1

Roarbark said:


> FYI, my best guess is we in reality have more than 2 cases. They only recently (paper this morning) started expanding testing, I believe it's been fairly limited until now. That said, I think there's a certain amount of fearmongering going on here, and personally (as a young foolish healthy male) I wouldn't cancel my own travel plans.
> 
> If I had any vacation at all, I might take a trip. $250 round trip to Seattle? $400 to East coast? Whooo!


COME TO SEATTLE! I HAVE WHISKEY


----------



## JayKay PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Family intervention time?


Nah, I called him and confirmed they weren't going.  Huuuuuge load off my back/I can breathe a lot more freely now.  But it was a very "dad" conversation:

"Please tell me you're not still going to Rome?"

"Why would I be going to Rome?"

"...does this mean you're not going to Rome?"

Ad nauseam until he finally said they're not going.

I guess since it was booked with points, which he really doesn't want refunded because he has so many that they actually expire each year, he's seeing if they can rebook six months or a year out without changing fees.  Dad hope springs eternal?


----------



## mudpuppy

JayKay PE said:


> I guess since it was booked with points, which he really doesn't want refunded because he has so many that they actually expire each year, he's seeing if they can rebook six months or a year out without changing fees.  Dad hope springs eternal?




What?  Letting points expire is blasphemy!  He can spend those points on me if he really doesn't want them!


----------



## JayKay PE

mudpuppy said:


> What?  Letting points expire is blasphemy!  He can spend those points on me if he really doesn't want them!


EXACTLY HIS THOUGHTS.  ...Which is why he bought three plane tickets for me to/from Indiana to/from NY for $3 for me.  Maybe I'll see if he can grab some other flights for me.


----------



## jeb6294

tj_PE said:


> COME TO SEATTLE! I HAVE WHISKEY


You'd better save that so you can use it to make DIY hand sanitizer.


----------



## txjennah PE

Dang. School my husband teaches at is moving to distance learning.


----------



## Roarbark

JayKay PE said:


> "Please tell me you're not still going to Rome?"
> 
> "Why would I be going to Rome?"


 gimme a break, JKdad. 



tj_PE said:


> COME TO SEATTLE! I HAVE WHISKEY


It has been a while since I've been back up to northleft town, but I just read THIS scathing criticism of "business as usual".
Give my portion of whiskey to Tom Hanks for now, he apparently needs it .


----------



## Orchid PE

txjennah PE said:


> Dang. School my husband teaches at is moving to distance learning.


So the university I went to in FL has transitioned _all_ of their classes to online for the rest of the semester.


----------



## User1

Our schools are closed for the next 6 weeks mostly


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## csb




----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

School is closed for 2 weeks 

I get to telework with a 5 year old running around. Should be a blast.


----------



## User1

6 weeks out here


----------



## WickedYetCivil

Yeah Universities are kicking college students from the dorms and teaching online for the rest of the semester here. Waiting for the rest of the schools to follow if e-learning is available. Husband’s office is asking to see who could work from home as well.
 

Missouri’s big cities also have canceled all events of 1,000 people or more. 

The PE in Missouri is one location at a huge conference hall at a hotel so I’m waiting to hear what NCEES is going to do with the test being 37 days away...I saw the website but know that can change daily.


----------



## RBHeadge PE




----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

so guess what I get to do? I get to be that person that everyone hates. I just sent out a "we are open for business tomorrow so you better show up" email. lol

btw, I won't be there all day so i'm sure that will go over well.


----------



## Dleg

I warned a good friend of mine against a weekend trip to Manila (Philippines) with his family. Idiot went anyway. Got off the plane to learn that Manila has been locked down. He can still leave, but is planning to stay until Monday night because  Dad reasons: "I paid for this, so we're just going to avoid people but still do everything we had planned."

F____er better not ask to stay at my house for his layover on the way back.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

civilrobot said:


> so guess what I get to do? I get to be that person that everyone hates. I just sent out a "we are open for business tomorrow so you better show up" email. lol
> 
> btw, I won't be there all day so i'm sure that will go over well.


I thought you worked at the airport? I would think that would be open... well at least until TPTB finally cease commercial air traffic.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## txjennah PE

Downtown was really empty this morning!  Work hasn't mandated WFH policies yet but I expect it will happen within the next week.


----------



## NikR_PE

Yup. We received our WFH email last night.


----------



## txjennah PE

NikR_PE said:


> Yup. We received our WFH email last night.


I like the new avatar!  Seems even more diabolical 

We were told to bring our laptops home every night just in case we move in that direction.  I fully expect it to happen by next week.


----------



## NikR_PE

txjennah PE said:


> I like the new avatar!  Seems even more diabolical
> 
> We were told to bring our laptops home every night just in case we move in that direction.  I fully expect it to happen by next week.


haha Thanks. Just messing around in the mafia thread. 

I started working from home and realized my VPN is not working. spent the whole day with IT yesterday with no result. Looking forward to the same today.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

I plan to take my computer, and possibly my two additional monitors, home with me today. Just in case...


----------



## Road Guy

Kids are now on 2 week spring breaks and assuming the ones in college won’t go back to finish spring semester... therefore everyone needs food for extra people at home that wasn’t planned for and the grocery stores look like it’s the day before thanksgiving at 6am on a Friday.... 

I thought I would get a jump on a few staples like potatoes/ rice/ beans this morning before work but that shit was gone....

I know where the elk hang out up at Rocky Mountain national park - looks like I may not need to get a tag from the government this year after all...

Can you skin a buck? Run a trout line?


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> Kids are now on 2 week spring breaks and assuming the ones in college won’t go back to finish spring semester... therefore everyone needs food for extra people at home that wasn’t planned for and the grocery stores look like it’s the day before thanksgiving at 6am on a Friday....
> 
> I thought I would get a jump on a few staples like potatoes/ rice/ beans this morning before work but that shit was gone....
> 
> I know where the elk hang out up at Rocky Mountain national park - looks like I may not need to get a tag from the government this year after all...
> 
> Can you skin a buck? Run a trout line?


Are those interview questions for sister wives?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

We've been giving the option to work from home *if* it doesn't impact your work, but it's not mandatory. They are trying to limit the number of people on the facility. So if you're just doing "computer work" you can do that from home. People doing manufacturing are working here at full capacity. In engineering, people running tests or building test articles are required to be here, but you could do CAD and calcs from home. Our customer service and tech support will be allowed to work from home, but first IT needs to setup some additional remote capabilities to our customer service systems. Etc Etc


----------



## NikR_PE

NikR_PE said:


> I started working from home and realized my VPN is not working. spent the whole day with IT yesterday with no result. Looking forward to the same today.


So yesterday I told the IT guys that this has happened 2-3 years back. Can you please look into that ticket to see what the resolution was. They said it was some other issue.  Two guys tried with no results. Was contacted today by the next level up guy. Told him about the past issue. He looked up the solution and It worked. So I wasted all of yesterday for no reason.


----------



## jeb6294

We've been getting a buttload of emails here at work repeating the same stuff we've already been hearing 24/7 for the last week.  No word on teleworking yet.  I heard somebody say something about business as usual until someone in the building and then the Federal building shuts down.  I'm guessing it's only a matter of time that they officially declare that the sky is falling because they just had 4 cases confirmed in Greatef Cincy.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

April 2020 pen &amp; paper exams have been canceled. 

https://ncees.org/covid-19/

My company still hasn't issued a formal plan here. And we've got offices around the country.... Our internal page does get updated but in the comments section, someone from Communication just keeps replying "The Crisis team is coming up with a plan and will update shortly". But it's been 2 days of that.


----------



## leggo PE

TeamViewer for the win!


----------



## jeb6294

Our all hands meeting on Tuesday just got changed to a call-in meeting.  It was scheduled fairly last minute for an all hands meeting anyway, I think it was Tues. or Wed. when the original invite was sent out.  Makes me wonder if it is going to be our official work from home announcement.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

jeb6294 said:


> We've been getting a buttload of emails here at work repeating the same stuff we've already been hearing 24/7 for the last week.  No word on teleworking yet.  I heard somebody say something about business as usual until someone in the building and then the Federal building shuts down.  I'm guessing it's only a matter of time that they officially declare that the sky is falling because they just had 4 cases confirmed in Greatef Cincy.


Generally speaking it seems like decisions are being made the very local level, like supervisor/branch chief, or building location. I got official guidance from today suggesting that those with certain conditions, or living with those with certain conditions should telework.

If you read the tea leaves, it feels like a major announcement at the S-1 level at many agencies, or from OPM maybe coming soon.


----------



## MA_PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> April 2020 pen &amp; paper exams have been canceled.
> 
> https://ncees.org/covid-19/
> 
> My company still hasn't issued a formal plan here. And we've got offices around the country.... Our internal page does get updated but in the comments section, someone from Communication just keeps replying "The Crisis team is coming up with a plan and will update shortly". But it's been 2 days of that.


@Road Guy might be worth putting a banner up that April “paper and pencil” exams are cancelled.


----------



## blybrook PE

Just remember to buy the essentials when you go to the store (took this shot of someone's cart last night):


----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

RBHeadge PE said:


> I thought you worked at the airport? I would think that would be open... well at least until TPTB finally cease commercial air traffic.


yes but I'm not in ops. the terminal is fully operational. 

I manage the civil stuff, water stuff, engineers and architects.


----------



## txjennah PE

blybrook PE said:


> Just remember to buy the essentials when you go to the store (took this shot of someone's cart last night):
> 
> View attachment 16770


That's....a lot of condoms


----------



## blybrook PE

txjennah PE said:


> That's....a lot of condoms


Well the toilet paper aisle was empty, so I reckon the guy went for what he considered the second most important item to stockpile.  I should have stuck around to see what else he threw in the cart.


----------



## Road Guy

If anyone needs TP and can’t find it I was at a camping / ranching / gun store and where they sell camping / even related ports potty’s they have some there that people seem to be overlooking - it’s $6/ roll but I think it was like 10K sheets...


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Schools just closed in my area for *at least* 6 weeks.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

yep, louisiana schools until April 13th

Apparently Louisiana is the first state to postpone elections!!!.............. from March/April to June/July


----------



## ruggercsc

All our offices just got sent to work from home until 06 APR 2020, then it will be re-evaluated. 

Our open office sit where ever you want does not work the Pandemic age.  We were told to claim a spot and that it is now your spot.

I have to layoff two long time employees, one of them I hired 15 years ago and another who was hired before me.  Since we can't travel, even to the our office, I have to conduct them via Microsoft TEAMS.

My wife is pissed I will be at home for the next three weeks.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

@ruggercsc that sucks about #3.

And I'm not too thrilled to be working from home while my boyfriend is too. We have a small house. But my company put the WFH decision on us.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

I feel very fortunate I have older kids - had this happened when mine were in elementary school it would have been a royal pain. One of us would probably have to quit or take a leave of absence.

Hopefully families and neighbors can lean on each other for those of you all that now have to figure out how to manage your kids and work.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

The funniest meme I've seen though this whole mess is, "Due to panic buying, Wal-Mart will be opening a 2nd register."


----------



## Dleg

^Post it! That was the whole I point of this thread.


----------



## Road Guy

^- that will be the day!

These made me chuckle:


----------



## P-E

Just got back from Maine.  Got a project at a small college up there.   Was on campus when it was announced that everyone had to get out by Sunday and facilities had to work all weekend to get them out.   Unhappy students, parents and workers worried about their jobs.


----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

I sent out the WFH guidance today after some strong debating over who was considered essential vs non essential. 
 

I'm just glad I didn’t get a bunch of questions after I hit send. Either it was very clear or no one cared because they already left for the day lol


----------



## Dleg

^ I got spanked for my building procedure for handling sick customers here to drop off documents. Got ordered to take down my sign (biohazard symbol was offensive, I was told) and instructed to accept documents from anyone,  no matter how sick. More than half my staff are in the highly vulnerable category.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E

civilrobot said:


> I sent out the WFH guidance today after some strong debating over who was considered essential vs non essential.


----------



## Orchid PE

Ha! Red shirts.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

P-E said:


> Just got back from Maine.  Got a project at a small college up there.   Was on campus when it was announced that everyone had to get out by Sunday and facilities had to work all weekend to get them out.   Unhappy students, parents and workers worried about their jobs.


Yeah Maine is slowly reacting to it now. We've got 3 confirmed cases as of yesterday afternoon. One a city employee in the public health building...


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

These Colorado figures were interesting to me - makes me think that the elderly are taking head and not going out while the rest of us are fucking it up....of course it’s easy to stay put when you don’t have a job to go to I suppose


----------



## Dleg




----------



## txjennah PE

Well, decided to check on my 401K.


----------



## ruggercsc

txjennah PE said:


> Well, decided to check on my 401K.


Do you mean your  4.01K.  Kidding aside, Four things I remember from my MBA Finance days are:


There is no such thing as a free lunch (If it sounds to good to be true, it is too good to be true).

Dump Losers early (If a fund or stock is consistently underperforming others in it sector, it may be time to find another alternative in its same sector).

Let it Ride (No one can accurately predict timing in the market, but over the *long *term, the stock market has consistently risen). 

Avoid the Panic.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

txjennah PE said:


> Well, decided to check on my 401K.


Yeah same. Oof


----------



## Road Guy

I look at it this way- if I didn’t max out my 401k I would pay almost that amount in taxes so at least I know I have a better than average change of getting the money back down the road-versus a 100% chance of it going to waste...


All ski resorts closed in Colorado - makes sense because so many people come here for spring break and that will reduce travel - it does suck in a way-

I’d like one more ski day so gonna take off a day from work and do some easy uphill
Hike access backcountry with my daughter (isolated) one day where we won’t be around people...just to mentally close out the season


----------



## Flyer_PE

I haven't lost a dime in the market because I haven't sold anything.  My only gripe is that I didn't have more cash on the sidelines to take advantage of the buying opportunity.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

Road Guy said:


> If China is being truthful with their numbers I guess that is encouraging?


The numbers according to World Health Organization seems to indicate that it's coming down right now. My friend from Zhejiang Province told me that they dramatically practiced Social Distancing and avoided crowded public places where close contact occur.


----------



## Dean Agnostic




----------



## frazil

Dean Agnostic said:


> The numbers according to World Health Organization seems to indicate that it's coming down right now. My friend from Zhejiang Province told me that they dramatically practiced Social Distancing and avoided crowded public places where close contact occur.


One thing I don't understand is why the number of potential infections in the US is expected to be so high, when in China the peak seems to have already occurred and the total is around 80,000.  There's an article on NY times, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-trump-response.html, that lets you adjust a chart to see the impact of early interventions and aggressive tactics to reduce the number of cases.  The lowest I can get the peak number is around 500,000, with 50,000 deaths.  (If you don't do anything this tool estimates about 100,000,000 people will get infected and 1,000,000 will die.)

Why would we expect to get so many more cases here than China did at the peak, when they have a lot more people and were caught off guard by this, while we've had time to get prepared?  What am I missing?

Obviously this tool makes some assumptions, and I know China has taken some drastic measures, but these numbers seem way off.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Welp, I've joined the WFH group for the time being. Collected all my equipment and set up shop in my office. We'll see if this week ends up being more or less productive because of it...


----------



## Road Guy

It seems like China pretty much circled the wagons and eliminated any movement in or out of those cities - and we seem to be hesitant to take that sort of drastic measure - I’m assuming they have people running numbers that are smarter than me but I was expecting all domestics flights to stop for 2 weeks to sort things out -


----------



## Dleg

Frankly I am very disappointed in the American response to this crisis so far. There were a few good memes right at the beginning, but then they just tapered off. Meme production seems to be picking up now, but I worry it is too late?


----------



## frazil

Or too soon?


----------



## csb

Schools are closed until April 7.

Governor sent us a memo thanking us for our service and that he'd see us tomorrow.


----------



## jeb6294

Just as I was getting ready to go to bed the phone rang. It was an automated call telling us to stay home tomorrow. Not sure if it’s the entire Federal building or just the DOE.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## NJmike PE




----------



## Supe

If y'all can't figure out what to eat, GrubHub has temporarily waived their commissioning fees for independent restaurants, and I believe you also have the option of door/porch dropoff.  So if you have any good local places you want to keep in business until this dies down, now's the time to order!


----------



## JayKay PE

Welp, VA is still open for business.  I went out on Friday, when I think Indianapolis announced schools would be closed, and grocery stores were packed.  I saw many people buying things that...are not appropriate for long-term meal planning (think boxes of rice-a-roni and such instead of buying staples).  Went out again on Saturday, because I wanted a rotisserie chicken for stock, and then was waaaaaaay less people out.  I think social distancing is becoming a thing.

Ohio and Illinois have both closed restaurants/casinos/etc. for a solid two weeks.  Indiana is nestled in-between these states, so I think it's only a matter of time before that happens here.


----------



## Orchid PE

A lot of companies are going to come out of this a little leaner. There are a lot of companies that don't regularly look for excess staffing. Companies that have never done so before will now have to identify essential and non-essential employees, and they're going to have to ask the question of whether the non-essential employee work could be handled by the essentials.

I just came from a company that performed a yearly assessment of everyone to see where they could trim fat. But now at this company, it doesn't look like they do that. At least I'm an essential here.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

frazil said:


> One thing I don't understand is why the number of potential infections in the US is expected to be so high, when in China the peak seems to have already occurred and the total is around 80,000.  There's an article on NY times, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-trump-response.html, that lets you adjust a chart to see the impact of early interventions and aggressive tactics to reduce the number of cases.  The lowest I can get the peak number is around 500,000, with 50,000 deaths.  (If you don't do anything this tool estimates about 100,000,000 people will get infected and 1,000,000 will die.)
> 
> Why would we expect to get so many more cases here than China did at the peak, when they have a lot more people and were caught off guard by this, while we've had time to get prepared?  What am I missing?
> 
> Obviously this tool makes some assumptions, and I know China has taken some drastic measures, but these numbers seem way off.


China essentially ordered house arrest for an entire province. And while it put a serious dent in the growth of the infected it still hasn't fully terminated the spread. It's not clear that the US could legally execute such a strategy even if it had the willpower to do so. Additionally we've had community spread of the virus in varied localities for over a month, so it's not like we could isolate and entire region and shut down our borders to prevent the spread and influx of infected.


----------



## Orchid PE

Just got the go-ahead to work from home.


----------



## BebeshKing PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Just got the go-ahead to work from home.


----------



## Ramnares P.E.

Work is enforcing 2 week work from home and schools are closed till end of March with possibility of more.  Supermarket shelves continue to be woefully bare...


----------



## jeb6294

RBHeadge PE said:


> It's not clear that the US could legally execute such a strategy even if it had the willpower to do so.


 I think all the news outlets are doing this for us. Whatever they can do to keep everyone at home glued to their TV’s....

As someone married to someone in the medical field, I am still firmly of the opinion that this is all being vastly overblown. By all means be cautious, especially if you are in a high-risk group, but thinking the world needs to come to a grinding halt is too much.


----------



## Orchid PE

I'm a little bummed the Nashville guitar show got cancelled. Me and my business partner were going to show off a few of our guitars.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I'm a little bummed the Nashville guitar show got cancelled. Me and my business partner were going to show off a few of our guitars.


I hear you.  I'm sad that my anniversary trip has to be postponed, also some great concerts that I was looking forward to. But it's all good.  I totally support all these changes.  Is your show postponed until next year?


----------



## Orchid PE

I guess so. All they said was that the Nashville and Chicago shows were cancelled. Didn't say anything able new dates.


----------



## mudpuppy

Supe said:


> If y'all can't figure out what to eat, GrubHub has temporarily waived their commissioning fees for independent restaurants, and I believe you also have the option of door/porch dropoff.  So if you have any good local places you want to keep in business until this dies down, now's the time to order!




Grub hub and Uber Eats, etc. don't deliver out here in the middle of nowhere, but the plus side is we killed a possibly rabid raccoon in our yard yesterday so we have something fresh to eat!


----------



## Road Guy

and dont you have deer that stumble across your property?

2000-2019 - _I want a mocha mocha non fat extra soy latte please, extra hot, no foam..._

2020 &amp; beyond - _Bitch we have black coffee take it or leave it!_


----------



## txjennah PE

Well, Indiana is the next state to implement carry out or delivery only for bars and restaurants.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

txjennah PE said:


> Well, Indiana is the next state to implement carry out or delivery only for bars and restaurants.


WA did that yesterday too. Not sure yet what that's gonna look like.


----------



## txjennah PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> WA did that yesterday too. Not sure yet what that's gonna look like.


IA.  We've been wary of eating out the past week or so.  Just hoping the grocery stores can keep up with the consumer demands...bizarre to see so many aisles empty.  Definitely aware of my privilege right now.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Maryland announced it this morning. All restaurants closed by 1700 today. Take out/delivery is still okay.


----------



## JayKay PE

txjennah PE said:


> IA.  We've been wary of eating out the past week or so.  Just hoping the grocery stores can keep up with the consumer demands...bizarre to see so many aisles empty.  Definitely aware of my privilege right now.


I think the Indiana grocery stores were hit really hard Friday/Saturday due to a bunch of school closings announced on Friday.  I, unfortunately, went shopping all three days (Friday through Sunday).  Friday early morning was a mad house/shelves empty/general hysteria.  Saturday, things were calming down, still some empty shelves, but workers were working hard to restock where they could.  Sunday, more shelves were stocked (lots of perishables veggies were out, but no potatoes at all), and some canned goods were out.  People seem to not like kidney beans in Indiana (a shame, but good for me).  I think the next couple days the supply chain will continue for food goods pretty normal, and you can only stock your fridge to the wall limits, but there will be a lack of some dry goods.


----------



## mudpuppy

Well damn, the DNR wants the raccoon for testing.  Says it's likely canine distemper.  So much for dinner.



Road Guy said:


> and dont you have deer that stumble across your property?




Yes, lots.  Thirteen of them Saturday morning.  I'm not a poacher, but if this turns into the apocalypse at least we have an option before resorting to cannibalism.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

JayKay PE said:


> Friday early morning was a mad house/shelves empty/general hysteria.  Saturday, things were calming down, still some empty shelves, but workers were working hard to restock where they could.


Same here in northern CA. LITERALLY ALL the pasta and canned beans 'n chili were gone, as well as the entire ramen aisle (&lt;-- not a high end store). I mostly needed fresh veggies and those were fully stocked. The apocalypse future will be high in sodium.


----------



## Road Guy

if there isnt anything to buy you got to do what you go to do to eat (&amp; its not like there is a shortage of deer on the planet)   

But I cant decide if in the future world I want to be Negan, Rick, or Daryl?


----------



## txjennah PE

JayKay PE said:


> I think the Indiana grocery stores were hit really hard Friday/Saturday due to a bunch of school closings announced on Friday.  I, unfortunately, went shopping all three days (Friday through Sunday).  Friday early morning was a mad house/shelves empty/general hysteria.  Saturday, things were calming down, still some empty shelves, but workers were working hard to restock where they could.  Sunday, more shelves were stocked (lots of perishables veggies were out, but no potatoes at all), and some canned goods were out.  People seem to not like kidney beans in Indiana (a shame, but good for me).  I think the next couple days the supply chain will continue for food goods pretty normal, and you can only stock your fridge to the wall limits, but there will be a lack of some dry goods.


We keep a pretty well-stocked pantry and had anticipated Thursday night that things would get bad.  We grabbed provisions (within reason) from our tiny grocery store from down the street, then did a grocery pickup at Meijer Saturday AM.  They were out of some items, but we still managed to get some pasta, meats, and canned goods.  We stocked up last night again from the little grocery store after hearing the CDC would expand their guidelines - all bread, meat, and eggs were wiped out, but we were still able to get canned/frozen goods.  We also were able to get some potatoes though supplies were dwindling.  Since we keep a pretty well-stocked pantry already, it was more about shoring up our resources in case it gets worse (again, within reason. I don't understand the toilet paper or bottled water hysteria buying, and I'm certainly not going to take too many resources from others in need).


----------



## chart94 PE

Just got the email. WFH next month at least..


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

New Orleans: as of today...


Restaurants must operate at 50% capacity and maintain 6' between guests (basically every other table). Dine-in must end by 9pm. Takeout/delivery may continue until close.

Fast food restaurants are drive thru only.

Bars and night clubs must operate at 50% of fire dept rated capacity and must close by midnight. Last call by 11:15.

(There was previously no time that resturants, bars, or nightclubs had to close or have a last call.)

Edit: New Orleans was overuled by more strict rules from the state. Posted below.


----------



## JayKay PE

I was talking about the stock market and the virus stuff today with a co-worker.  He mentioned that he might buy another gun.  I just...is that really the correct reaction?


----------



## Orchid PE

JayKay PE said:


> I was talking about the stock market and the virus stuff today with a co-worker.  He mentioned that he might buy another gun.  I just...is that really the correct reaction?


Buying another gun is never an incorrect response.

When my daughter was born, it was time to buy another gun.

I'm about to have a son, time to buy anther gun.

Global pandemic? Time to buy another gun.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

JayKay PE said:


> I was talking about the stock market and the virus stuff today with a co-worker.  He mentioned that he might buy another gun.  I just...is that really the correct reaction?


Boyfriend noted yesterday that stocks in gun companies were doing well. Slightly surprised he didn't buy one. Maybe if he didnt just get a roof rack and a kayak...


----------



## Road Guy

Is there a hedge fund for Kroger, Costco, Sams and Cabela's?

I was told there were lots of "Subaru types" at the Cabela's this past weekend in line to buy a firearm    Long Lines - I did go out a month ago and bought enough boxes for my family to hold our own in the event the blue bellies try and get us out of our houses, but nothing too crazy...


----------



## JayKay PE

Welp.  Guess I don't have to worry about finding a new gym anytime soon:

"Marion County restaurants, bars, gyms and other venues are set to close by Tuesday morning, according to Mayor Joe Hogsett.  Hogsett issued an executive order declaring a local disaster emergency in Marion County. He also activated a watch-level travel advisory, which means only essential travel—such as to and from work, emergencies, or  travel to purchase groceries and pick-up prescriptions or food—is recommended.

In addition, Hogsett prohibited gatherings of 50 people or more and closed bars, nightclubs, movie theaters, gyms and entertainment venues effective at 8 a.m. Tuesday.  Bars and restaurants that do serve food will be prohibited from serving dine-in customers but can offer food via carryout, delivery and drive-thru."

I might go to my current gym one last time tonight, to say good bye/good luck, but then I might start jogging after work instead of gyming it.


----------



## ruggercsc

JayKay PE said:


> I was talking about the stock market and the virus stuff today with a co-worker.  He mentioned that he might buy another gun.  I just...is that really the correct reaction?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-lining-buy-guns-because-153245983.html


----------



## Orchid PE

I wish I had some extra money to invest right now.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I've never heard a "gun person" say that it's not a good time to buy a gun or ammo. Can't speak for other regions, but in the south that's pretty much the standard response to any &amp; every event.


----------



## frazil

JayKay PE said:


> Welp.  Guess I don't have to worry about finding a new gym anytime soon:
> 
> "Marion County restaurants, bars, gyms and other venues are set to close by Tuesday morning, according to Mayor Joe Hogsett.  Hogsett issued an executive order declaring a local disaster emergency in Marion County. He also activated a watch-level travel advisory, which means only essential travel—such as to and from work, emergencies, or  travel to purchase groceries and pick-up prescriptions or food—is recommended.
> 
> In addition, Hogsett prohibited gatherings of 50 people or more and closed bars, nightclubs, movie theaters, gyms and entertainment venues effective at 8 a.m. Tuesday.  Bars and restaurants that do serve food will be prohibited from serving dine-in customers but can offer food via carryout, delivery and drive-thru."
> 
> I might go to my current gym one last time tonight, to say good bye/good luck, but then I might start jogging after work instead of gyming it.


My gym just sent an email saying they're closed for the next 2 weeks.  I doubt I'll want to go after that.  Maybe I should just cancel it for the summer and save some money!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> New Orleans: as of today...
> 
> 
> Restaurants must operate at 50% capacity and maintain 6' between guests (basically every other table). Dine-in must end by 9pm. Takeout/delivery may continue until close.
> 
> Fast food restaurants are drive thru only.
> 
> Bars and night clubs must operate at 50% of fire dept rated capacity and must close by midnight. Last call by 11:15.
> 
> (There was previously no time that resturants, bars, or nightclubs had to close or have a last call.)


New Orleans mayor announce the above over the weekend.

Louisiana governor just went further. Statewide closure of bars, casinos, and movie theaters. Restaurants limited to take-out, delivery, &amp; drive-thru.


----------



## JayKay PE

frazil said:


> My gym just sent an email saying they're closed for the next 2 weeks.  I doubt I'll want to go after that.  Maybe I should just cancel it for the summer and save some money!


Yeah, since my gym is officially 'closing', maybe I'll try running and horseback riding as my main version of working out.  I just feel weird because I am so bad at keeping myself motivated.  UGGGHGHGHHHGHH.  I NEED AN EB MOTIVATION WORKOUT THREAD WHERE WE ALL FORCE JAYKAY TO MOVE SLIGHTLY.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

JayKay PE said:


> I NEED AN EB MOTIVATION WORKOUT THREAD WHERE WE ALL FORCE JAYKAY TO MOVE SLIGHTLY.


FitBit challenge?? Am I nothing to you???


----------



## JayKay PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> FitBit challenge?? Am I nothing to you???


The fitbit challenge makes me sad.  I do not move a lot during the day.  T_T


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I don't know if there are many crossfitters on EB, but I'd be down to have a crossfit thread where we post workout and results.


----------



## Road Guy

^- just posted what I am going to try and do in the fitness thread.. modified murph every other day - I think that will be a good one to hit just about every thing?

I told my gym owner I would pay for 2 months even if he has to close - (assuming I dont get laid off or something) - we are small outfit and the dude has pretty much changed my life (I know that sounds dumb)


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I've never heard a "gun person" say that it's not a good time to buy a gun or ammo. Can't speak for other regions, but in the south that's pretty much the standard response to any &amp; every event.


Also northern Mainers


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

JayKay PE said:


> Yeah, since my gym is officially 'closing', maybe I'll try running and horseback riding as my main version of working out.  I just feel weird because I am so bad at keeping myself motivated.  UGGGHGHGHHHGHH.  I NEED AN EB MOTIVATION WORKOUT THREAD WHERE WE ALL FORCE JAYKAY TO MOVE SLIGHTLY.


We can be text emoji buddies! No one has taken me up on that when I post it on IG


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Triple!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> ^- just posted what I am going to try and do in the fitness thread.. modified murph every other day - I think that will be a good one to hit just about every thing?
> 
> I told my gym owner I would pay for 2 months even if he has to close - (assuming I dont get laid off or something) - we are small outfit and the dude has pretty much changed my life (I know that sounds dumb)


That's really nice; doesn't sound dumb.

For the Murph, you have somewhere to do pull ups at home? Or are you subbing something else?


----------



## ruggercsc

"TOP - Might as well start spamming."

How low will DJIA go.  Any guesses?


----------



## Road Guy

jean15paul_PE said:


> That's really nice; doesn't sound dumb.
> 
> For the Murph, you have somewhere to do pull ups at home? Or are you subbing something else?


Ive got a pull up bar in the garage - https://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-p-5v-garage-pullup-system?prod_id=9879&amp;gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9Oozv6f6AIVAdvACh0Npg6-EAQYASABEgIi__D_BwE   its pretty cool - can do a lot with it - I F'd up my eblow a while back but I am slowly getting to use it - after the first 5-6 they will be banded


----------



## Roarbark

JayKay PE said:


> The fitbit challenge makes me sad.  I do not move a lot during the day.  T_T


Time to change that .... now that it's looking like we'll all be locked our abodes for an indeterminate amount of time.


----------



## Road Guy

I feel like I am flip flopping, but I think we just need to quarantine off all the old people &amp; those with other medical  issues and let the rest of us catch it and deal with it - if they say *most wont even have to go to doctor - seems like there is a better way than just shut down the country till august?

Maybe after this 2 weeks of crazy, there has got to be a way people can self quarantine and we bring them food and what meds they need every day than just lock up 250 million motherfuckers? (luckily for me I am already *fixed)   

Has to be a better way? 

Apparently SARS and H1N1 just killed you quickly so you didnt have time to spread it but this just lags on and on... Its almost like god is pissed off at our ability to keep people alive medically beyond her original plan to kill them off, and is like ha ha fuck your science bitch!


----------



## Roarbark

Aside: Note the Y axis scale. Visual flattening of curve doesn't necessarily mean rate is slowing. Seek out other graphics if you'd a better visual representation of the e^x nature.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Ive got a pull up bar in the garage - https://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-p-5v-garage-pullup-system?prod_id=9879&amp;gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9Oozv6f6AIVAdvACh0Npg6-EAQYASABEgIi__D_BwE   its pretty cool - can do a lot with it - I F'd up my eblow a while back but I am slowly getting to use it - after the first 5-6 they will be banded


Nice!

I'd love one of these. I just need money and space.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Roarbark said:


> View attachment 16812
> 
> 
> Aside: Note the Y axis scale. Visual flattening of curve doesn't necessarily mean rate is slowing. Seek out other graphics if you'd a better visual representation of the e^x nature.


Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design...

#6. (Mar's Law) Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker.


----------



## frazil

Roarbark said:


> Visual flattening of curve doesn't necessarily mean rate is slowing.


Wait...isn’t that exactly what it means?


----------



## Dleg

Also the shape of the curve for the US may be indicative only of the increase in rate of testing, not new infections.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E




----------



## Roarbark

frazil said:


> Wait...isn’t that exactly what it means?


The Y axis scale is changing as it increases, so the curve is flattening, but the rate is actually increasing. Here's another view, with a non-log y axis, easier to see infelction. 



Which is from "Buzzfeed News" , not my favorite source.... but feel free to do some of your own digging!
Edit: I said "not necessarily" in above post because some with negative inflection in first graph (South Korea) are actually slowing down, while others (All others) are still accelerating.


----------



## frazil

Roarbark said:


> The Y axis scale is changing as it increases, so the curve is flattening, but the rate is actually increasing. Here's another view, with a non-log y axis, easier to see infelction.


By "flattening" do you mean becoming straight?  On a log chart I agree that a straight line or even curving would not mean the rate is decreasing.  I thought you meant becoming horizontal (like S. Korea) which would mean the rate is decreasing.  I agree with dleg too that these data are also a function of the rate of testing.  It's tough to get a handle on what's going on, but it definitely helps seeing these charts and maps and data.  Buzzfeed grabbed it from Johns Hopkins which is doing a really amazing job tracking all this.

Edit: Ah, I understand what you mean! Your edit note above helped.

I wonder why they don't plot China on here.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

So now WA has limited gatherings to 50 people max and has pretty much shut everything else (restaurants, gyms, hair salons, etc.) down.
 

Honestly this doesn’t feel much different for me, since I’m naturally an introvert...but this still kinda sucks. Seems to me that there’s some borderline unconstitutional stuff going on here.


----------



## roadwreck

mudpuppy said:


> Well damn, the DNR wants the raccoon for testing.


Did they want it for taste testing?


----------



## roadwreck

Chattaneer PE said:


> I wish I had some extra money to invest right now.


Sounds like you might have guns to sell and the market is hot right now.


----------



## Road Guy

I made a post on next door about how to clean and eat squirrel that got removed //content.invisioncic.com/r86644/emoticons/default_sad.png

People are not prepared for hard times - but these squirrels are fat as hell and would go well with all this rice we have.(had for years we never eat)


----------



## Roarbark

frazil said:


> By "flattening" do you mean becoming straight?  On a log chart I agree that a straight line or even curving would not mean the rate is decreasing.  I thought you meant becoming horizontal (like S. Korea) which would mean the rate is decreasing.  I agree with dleg too that these data are also a function of the rate of testing.  It's tough to get a handle on what's going on, but it definitely helps seeing these charts and maps and data.  Buzzfeed grabbed it from Johns Hopkins which is doing a really amazing job tracking all this.
> 
> Edit: Ah, I understand what you mean! Your edit note above helped.
> 
> I wonder why they don't plot China on here.


By "flattening" I meant the downward concavity. For example just looking at US data: it's concave down on first chart. This is a little deceptive, since it appears it's slowing down. It's concave up on second chart, which shows that rate is increasing. (Oops just noticed your edit. Glad I cleared myself up )

Re second part: China is ~4 times higher then the others atm, so maybe that's why. Would be harder to see this data if that was plotted.


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> I made a post on next door about how to clean and eat squirrel that got removed //content.invisioncic.com/r86644/emoticons/default_sad.png
> 
> People are not prepared for hard times - but these squirrels are fat as hell and would go well with all this rice we have.(had for years we never eat)


give um a few weeks, and they'll ask you to post it again.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

It's hard to tell, but are we looking at a three day doubling period outside of ROK?


----------



## JayKay PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> It's hard to tell, but are we looking at a three day doubling period outside of ROK?


This is something I’ve heard getting tossed around for the US outbreak, but the lack of testing is making it fairly difficult to confirm.


----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE

Day 1 of working from home. Now I can do work in my underwear.

Though, I'm not sure what stopped me from wearing underwear to work in the first place.


----------



## Supe

Tom Brady is done in New England, maybe this Coronavirus ain't all bad!


----------



## Bot-Man




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## JayKay PE

@blybrook PE


----------



## txjennah PE

Gonna start working from home tomorrow. Can't justify working at the office anymore simply for the sake of routine.  I think there are six people here lol, so social distancing is at least in effect.


----------



## ruggercsc

Road Guy said:


> I made a post on next door about how to clean and eat squirrel that got removed //content.invisioncic.com/r86644/emoticons/default_sad.png


We had squirrel when I was I was in the boy scouts many years ago.  Tasted like chicken with shotgun pellets added as seasoning.


----------



## txjennah PE

Ok, having a talk with the parents because my dad needs to keep his ass at home. He's over 60 and he doesn't need to be running around everywhere.


----------



## frazil

Just asked my son (16 yo) if he was interested in signing up for a new AP Laundry class that's available. 

Response: Wait, is that a thing?

Later response: I did some research and 0% of colleges accept that credit. So no.


----------



## txjennah PE

frazil said:


> Just asked my son (16 yo) if he was interested in signing up for a new AP Laundry class that's available.
> 
> Response: Wait, is that a thing?
> 
> Later response: I did some research and 0% of colleges accept that credit. So no.


I've met quite a few people over the years who could have afforded an AP Laundry class, or AP Basic Cleaning and Essentials class pppp


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

My company has sent out an email telling us that all open paper plates/cups &amp; plastic utensils need to be tossed out.

Still haven't mandated WFH. So if you are in certain offices, you'll now be SOL for a fork for lunch.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

ruggercsc said:


> We had squirrel when I was I was in the boy scouts many years ago.  Tasted like chicken with shotgun pellets added as seasoning.


Thats why I always use a .22 - more sporting also!

Its sort of like a greasy leg quarter - defin needs gravy though!


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> My company has sent out an email telling us that all open paper plates/cups &amp; plastic utensils need to be tossed out.
> 
> Still haven't mandated WFH. So if you are in certain offices, you'll now be SOL for a fork for lunch.


Why not just wash the plastic forks before use?

I get the actual paper products, but plastic can be washed.


----------



## frazil

West Virginia is the only remaining state with no confirmed cases.


----------



## csb

frazil said:


> West Virginia is the only remaining state with no confirmed cases.


Well, it's almost Heaven.


----------



## Road Guy

Maybe there is a benefit of not having an airport?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

vhab49_PE said:


> Why not just wash the plastic forks before use?
> 
> I get the actual paper products, but plastic can be washed.


*shrugs* i know one of our offices hasn't historically kept sponges &amp; dish soap at the breakroom sinks


----------



## Road Guy

Why did Pennsylvania close the liquor stores?  No one hangs out there very long?


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> View attachment 16835


that was Maine until Thursday


----------



## frazil

@Chattaneer PE  FTW!  Way to come through with the WV memes


----------



## jeb6294

Initially we got an email telling us that we were teleworking for the next 2 weeks.  We've since gotten a correction that the 2 weeks is only for people who have recently returned from travel.  The rest of us are back to the office on Thurs...for now.  We're all calling in to the all employee meeting in about 10 minutes so we'll see what happens.


----------



## Road Guy

Where is @DVINNY to let us know whats going on in WV?  We actually used to have a big WV contingent here..


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> *shrugs* i know one of our offices hasn't historically kept sponges &amp; dish soap at the breakroom sinks


We actually have real stuff and a dishwasher, so I probably just have lenses on.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

vhab49_PE said:


> We actually have real stuff and a dishwasher, so I probably just have lenses on.


My office has a combo. Most of us use the real silverware. I'd love for the paperplates to go away anyway. Our office is small enough that we could do it.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> My office has a combo. Most of us use the real silverware. I'd love for the paperplates to go away anyway. Our office is small enough that we could do it.


We do too, unless for some reason we aer feeding everyone (50+ people), then there isn't enough real stuff nor dishwasher space for that quantitiy of real stuff.


----------



## Orchid PE

Did anyone watch this when it came out? I remember it wasn't really a big hit, but it's probably going to gain some traction now.

Gonna have to watch it with the wife tonight.


----------



## Orchid PE

Also, don't read news headlines while listening to this.


----------



## goodal

If you want to feel real good about how bad this WILL NEVER BE, watch (re-watch) World War Z.  Makes a cough and old, sick people dying seem not so bad.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

welp, doing better than my coworker's wife. her company is not shutting down (it's an area magazine). one of her coworkers asked to wfh. and they said "if you leave, we will take this as your resignation"


----------



## txjennah PE

My mom is sending me Coronavirus memes...she never sends memes...I don't know what is happening here...


----------



## JayKay PE

txjennah PE said:


> My mom is sending me Coronavirus memes...she never sends memes...I don't know what is happening here...


Whereas my mom is telling me to keep my rosary on me at all times and becoming very doomsday.  As in, the cats are very sleepy/not doing anything, they obviously know something is wrong.

I think she's feeling weird since Easter is cancelled.


----------



## txjennah PE

JayKay PE said:


> Whereas my mom is telling me to keep my rosary on me at all times and becoming very doomsday.  As in, the cats are very sleepy/not doing anything, they obviously know something is wrong.
> 
> I think she's feeling weird since Easter is cancelled.


It's the opposite with me.  I have to tell them to stop going out. My dad is over 60 and Mom is getting there. After we had our talk, she sends me a picture of her sitting in the car in the Hobby Lobby parking lot.  IS HOBBY LOBBY ESSENTIAL, DAD?  JESUS CHRIST. STAY HOME.


----------



## frazil

txjennah PE said:


> My mom is sending me Coronavirus memes...she never sends memes...I don't know what is happening here...


Why aren’t you posting them??!


----------



## txjennah PE

frazil said:


> Why aren’t you posting them??!


Haha I will post the one that wasn't a screenshot of her IG page.


----------



## JayKay PE

txjennah PE said:


> It's the opposite with me.  I have to tell them to stop going out. My dad is over 60 and Mom is getting there. After we had our talk, she sends me a picture of her sitting in the car in the Hobby Lobby parking lot.  IS HOBBY LOBBY ESSENTIAL, DAD?  JESUS CHRIST. STAY HOME.


Oh no, my parents are still wandering around.  My dad still has gigs going on (I have no idea how musicals are still occurring), but my mom is mostly sleeping and watching the birds.  Sometimes she complains about the suet-stealing raccoons and the blue jays getting in fights with the ravens.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

jeb6294 said:


> Initially we got an email telling us that we were teleworking for the next 2 weeks.  We've since gotten a correction that the 2 weeks is only for people who have recently returned from travel.  The rest of us are back to the office on Thurs...for now.  We're all calling in to the all employee meeting in about 10 minutes so we'll see what happens.


That will change soon. Expect to hear back in the next day or so that you're 100% TW until further notice.



Chattaneer PE said:


> Did anyone watch this when it came out? I remember it wasn't really a big hit, but it's probably going to gain some traction now.


I watched it on a plane, when I was coming back from Austria. And I was pretty sick at the time. I kept to myself at the back of a partially empty 767. Watching that movie, while sick on a transatlantic flight, was a mistake. I was pretty convinced I was a RL patient zero about 45 minutes into the movie.

With that aside, it's an excellent movie.



goodal said:


> If you want to feel real good about how bad this WILL NEVER BE, watch (re-watch) World War Z.


fify

It was such a poor "adaptation" of the book - to the point that it kinda used half-a-chapter from the source material. So much wasted potential....  



Road Guy said:


> Why did Pennsylvania close the liquor stores?  No one hangs out there very long?


The Commonwealth owns and operates all of the liquor stores. It doesn't surprise me that was closed along with everything else.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

CEO came out and said "all employees who can wfh, wfh". And changed our pto/sick leave if we do contract covid. So that's something


----------



## LyceeFruit PE




----------



## LyceeFruit PE




----------



## Dleg

> 5 hours ago, Chattaneer PE said:
> 
> Did anyone watch this when it came out? I remember it wasn't really a big hit, but it's probably going to gain some traction now.
> 
> Gonna have to watch it with the wife tonight.



Yep. Excellent movie. The main character was supposedly based on Rear Admiral Ann Schuchat (sp?), one of the head CDC disease investigators. She hasn't been on TV much lately, but I did see her at one of the earlier White House press conferences in February. During the SARS and swine flu situations, she was on the news all the time in her service dress blue uniform. Contagion is still the only modern movie to feature Public Health Service officers in uniform, but even then it never identified them as such. And the actress playing the Schuchat character reportedly decided that she didn't want her character to be in a uniform, so they altered it based on her theater major feelings.


----------



## Orchid PE

I think we're already going stir crazy.

We just introduced our 1.5yr old to Thrift Shop.


----------



## Road Guy

Made the mistake of talking to my parents again- they were meeting friends for dinner - but it’s okay because the restaurant leaves an empty table in between everyone!

And they live in a Florida retirement town. Like they are the youngest at 75 I think in the entire town...

These are the (god damn) people we’re all going bankrupt for!

Que up the band....


----------



## Road Guy

And their friends drove in from Miami!


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE

Navy Federal Credit Union got a case down in FL. That's their HQ, and I've been inside their building, and those 10k people don't sit more than a few feet apart.


----------



## Road Guy

Are the beach pics making the rounds on the news accurate? Looks like a regular spring break crowd? 


I saw the navy is activating its comfort ships - those things will be a huge help....


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Made the mistake of talking to my parents again- they were meeting friends for dinner - but it’s okay because the restaurant leaves an empty table in between everyone!
> 
> And they live in a Florida retirement town. Like they are the youngest at 75 I think in the entire town...
> 
> These are the (god damn) people we’re all going bankrupt for!
> 
> Que up the band....


My parents are taking it very seriously, i was surprised.  They said one of the supermarkets is having elderly hours.


----------



## blybrook PE

Alaska now has 6 confirmed cases, all travelers who arrived from outside. The governor has mandated a 14 day quarantine for all travelers and their families upon arrival. All dine-in restaurants, bars and other food establishments are not permitted to serve meals or drinks unless it is "to go" as of 1700 tomorrow (3/18/2020). Grocery stores are exempt from the self service buffet line restrictions. Drive thru's remain open for business.

Store shelves are getting emptied by the hour. TP cannot be found anywhere. A resupply barge arrived today, should expect some stores to restock some supplies within the next 36 hours. Some local stores are having senior hours (first thing in the morning) with an ID check. Others have to wait.

My office has permitted work from home for anyone who can do so, it is not mandatory yet. All travel for work is cancelled until May 11th at the earliest, it will be reviewed again as the situation develops.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## LyceeFruit PE

P-E said:


> My parents are taking it very seriously, i was surprised.  They said one of the supermarkets is having elderly hours.


Stop &amp; Shop is.

I wish Market Basket or Hannafords would as well.

I may need to go a grocery drop for my gram in NH this weekend. She's stayed home for over a week to stay healthy but none of my other local family has


----------



## Orchid PE

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/health/west-virginia-no-confirmed-coronavirus/index.html

Well it happened, WV finally got a case.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE

Hence why dogs are better than cats.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Master slacker

Welp... mandatory work from home now instituted for all non-essential personnel.  Unless, of course, you need to come in for any reason.  Then you can come onsite, take care of bidness, and go back home.  Just do what you want, but you must work from home...


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Same. My company just gave me the WFH where possible order this morning. I was already doing it, but now it’s mandated.


----------



## JayKay PE

*still coming into work, at a hospital, where I am not a nurse/doctor/someone who can actually do anything to help*


----------



## txjennah PE

First day of WFH and VPN doesn't work. Cool cool cool


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Chattaneer PE said:


> View attachment 16841


You could replace that with Plague Inc., as well.


----------



## goodal

We are supposed to go to Florida in a couple weeks with my 60 something parents.  Right or wrong, I am not scared of this thing one bit, but am hedging my bets that the beaches and restaurant are open (not to mention the flight).  They, however, are totally stoked and not really interested in canceling regardless of whether the beaches are closed or we eat take every meal.  I'm betting we have to cancel, but I'm not looking forward to tell them that.


----------



## jeb6294

JayKay PE said:


> *still coming into work, at a hospital, where I am not a nurse/doctor/someone who can actually do anything to help*


That kind of stuff always really annoyed us when I was at the VA.  We asked about doing flex schedules or 4 - 10hr days and we were always told we couldn't because the Drs/nurses couldn't do it.  Hell, it took 6 years to finally get one telework day per 2 week pay period.


----------



## Road Guy

This reads like mother nature / god / spaghetti lord / etc  is coming to square up the marvels of modern medicine that we have invented to keep the elderly and sick alive..

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-united-states-deaths/index.html

For those not in healthcare when they say "underlying health conditions" that typically means - already gravely ill  / heavy smoker / drinker / heavy drug use / etc


----------



## Orchid PE

goodal said:


> We are supposed to go to Florida in a couple weeks with my 60 something parents.  Right or wrong, I am not scared of this thing one bit, but am hedging my bets that the beaches and restaurant are open (not to mention the flight).  They, however, are totally stoked and not really interested in canceling regardless of whether the beaches are closed or we eat take every meal.  I'm betting we have to cancel, but I'm not looking forward to tell them that.


Which part of FL?


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Here's one that my boss forwarded on to us this morning...I assume others here have seen it already.

[SIZE=11pt]https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I haven't verified the statistics, but the message is clear.[/SIZE]


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> That kind of stuff always really annoyed us when I was at the VA.  We asked about doing flex schedules or 4 - 10hr days and we were always told we couldn't because the Drs/nurses couldn't do it.  Hell, it took 6 years to finally get one telework day per 2 week pay period.


Yeah...the VA is more or less the same.  I do have a compressed schedule, so I do get every other Friday off, but it feels silly for me to be here when I could easily do a majority of my work from home (none of my projects are running right now and it's mostly paperwork on my end).  Telework would probably be easier for me, because then I wouldn't get pulled into random projects/conversations with my office neighbor...Who has decided I need to know everything about them.


----------



## goodal

ft myers


----------



## frazil

I’m attending a 2-day virtual conference today and tomorrow.  At first I was kind of annoyed that they didn’t just cancel it since it would be better for this meeting to get together in person and discuss.  But now that I’m sitting here in my pjs, able to wander upstairs for coffee or surf the internet, I think they should all be online!


----------



## Orchid PE

goodal said:


> ft myers


I think most beaches are still open, but they are enforcing a 10 people group max, and 6ft spacing on the beach. My parents said the governor shut down all bars, night clubs, and tattoo parlors. A lot of places on the beach are considered "bars" instead of restaurants, so a lot of places will probably be closed. And the restaurants that are open can only operate at 50% capacity.


----------



## goodal

Chattaneer PE said:


> I think most beaches are still open, but they are enforcing a 10 people group max, and 6ft spacing on the beach. My parents said the governor shut down all bars, night clubs, and tattoo parlors. A lot of places on the beach are considered "bars" instead of restaurants, so a lot of places will probably be closed. And the restaurants that are open can only *operate at 50% capacity.*


Thats ok since we will be the only ones around


----------



## Master slacker

Chattaneer PE said:


> I think most beaches are still open, but they are enforcing a 10 people group max, and 6ft spacing on the beach. My parents said the governor shut down all bars, night clubs, and tattoo parlors. A lot of places on the beach are considered "bars" instead of restaurants, so a lot of places will probably be closed. And the restaurants that are open can only operate at 50% capacity.


Topsail state park canceled our camping reservation next week.  FYI, that's a few miles east of Destin.


----------



## Orchid PE

Found this: "Out of an abundance of caution, all events, activities, special event reservations, pavilion rentals and camping/cabin reservations at Florida State Parks have been canceled for the next 60 days. *Florida State Parks remain open for day use*; however, hours of operation have been reduced to 8 a.m. to 5 p.m."


----------



## Road Guy

anyone here from SF?  How is the lockdown? @leggo PE  Are you in the 7 million contained?


----------



## Supe

Chattaneer PE said:


> I think most beaches are still open, but they are enforcing a 10 people group max, and 6ft spacing on the beach. My parents said the governor shut down all bars, night clubs, and tattoo parlors. A lot of places on the beach are considered "bars" instead of restaurants, so a lot of places will probably be closed. And the restaurants that are open can only operate at 50% capacity.


The shots of the spring break crowd I saw sure didn't look heavily enforced!


----------



## Road Guy

I would think most all of Florida is a High Risk State - When I go visit my parents (they live in Dunedin) every aisle of the Publix has at least 4 of those little cart things on them - probably not a good outlook for them -  I think they tracked down 3 lawyers at a convention in NY that gave it to 75 people last week or something...

we gave a big eye roll to our dutch neighbors (who work from home, never drive anywhere) walking to the mailbox wearing some masks - I almost had to restrain the wife since they are talking "mask sharing" at her job - we have agreed that if the run out of masks and gloves she doesnt go in - and i hope all of healthcare does that - I know the military is sitting on a metric shit ton of them..


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 16846


Exactly.  My cat is so confused.  He also thinks we are home, thus it must be food time.


----------



## goodal

PREPARE FOR SOME 3RD HAND DOCTORING/POSSIBLE FAKE NEWS HERE:

I was in an unrelated meeting this morning with a state official with a title that used most letters of the alphabet.  He shared that he had just come from a conference about the virus.  He was told the following in an official capacity:

1) The virus doesn't live on your skin more than 4-6 min.  

2) If you are sneezed/coughed/vomited on, your not guaranteed to get it or pass it on to anyone if your RNA isn't right.  You won't get it even then unless you move said bodily fluid to an orifice (ie with your hand to your mouth).

3) The virus cant live at temps above 78F.  If you get it, don't take meds to reduce fever and do take long hot showers because the virus lives in the coldest part of your lungs and the hotter you can get that, the quicker it dies.

4) Once outside temps hit 80F, this is over due to number 3 above.

Take or leave it, but thats what he said and hes the closest I've been to someone in person that claims to know something.


----------



## blybrook PE

Just got this tidbit from a local nurse who was briefed after her location was used to quarantine 2 of the cases in Alaska:

IF in self quarantine / monitoring status, take your temperature every morning as soon as you get up. If you are below 100*, go about your day while maintaining 6' minimum distance from others and avoid crowds greater than 10 people. If you are above 100*, start isolation procedures and test again in 2 hours; if still above 100*, fully isolate yourself from others, monitor for other symptoms and call your doctor.


----------



## mudpuppy

goodal said:


> PREPARE FOR SOME 3RD HAND DOCTORING/POSSIBLE FAKE NEWS HERE:
> 
> I was in an unrelated meeting this morning with a state official with a title that used most letters of the alphabet.  He shared that he had just come from a conference about the virus.  He was told the following in an official capacity:
> 
> 1) The virus doesn't live on your skin more than 4-6 min.
> 
> 2) If you are sneezed/coughed/vomited on, your not guaranteed to get it or pass it on to anyone if your RNA isn't right.  You won't get it even then unless you move said bodily fluid to an orifice (ie with your hand to your mouth).
> 
> 3) The virus cant live at temps above 78F.  If you get it, don't take meds to reduce fever and do take long hot showers because the virus lives in the coldest part of your lungs and the hotter you can get that, the quicker it dies.
> 
> 4) Once outside temps hit 80F, this is over due to number 3 above.
> 
> Take or leave it, but thats what he said and hes the closest I've been to someone in person that claims to know something.




For #4... it's late summer in Australia with temps in the mid- to high-80s and it seems to be spreading there.


----------



## goodal

Maybe they all work in the frozen food section of Wally world.


----------



## enrique_nola

mudpuppy said:


> For #4... it's late summer in Australia with temps in the mid- to high-80s and it seems to be spreading there.


It’s 83 degrees outchea (New Orleans) and was spreading like a wildfire before the shut ins.


----------



## ruggercsc

We were just told to work from home until 20 APR 2020 for our office staff.


----------



## txjennah PE

I like how IT is all, "Oh, there are lots of things you can do without VPN." Yeah, except, you know...access your work files on the network...which is KIND OF THE WHOLE POINT.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

txjennah PE said:


> I like how IT is all, "Oh, there are lots of things you can do without VPN." Yeah, except, you know...access your work files on the network...which is KIND OF THE WHOLE POINT.


'Murican's don't really get the whole WFH thing, it seems. It's just one of those things that we haven't really adopted a whole lot yet.

On a related note...my area just had its first COVID-19-related death. $h1t just got real...


----------



## Road Guy

i will not be able to work from home with all these people in the house. fuck this shit...


----------



## csb

goodal said:


> I'M POSTING RIDICULOUS INFORMATION:
> 
> REDACTED
> 
> Take or leave it, but thats what he said and hes the closest I've been to someone in person that claims to know something.  Leave it.


Fixed this for you.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

goodal said:


> PREPARE FOR SOME 3RD HAND DOCTORING/POSSIBLE FAKE NEWS HERE:


All of that falls under the category of dangerous bullshit.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Market Basket just released the Elderly Hours.

530-7am.

My Gram started laughing hysterically at that


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I really thought working from home would give me more free time. Participate on EB more, maybe get in some day gaming, relax, etc. WRONG!!! With the same amount of work, plus more distractions, and struggles with my setup (transferring files, VPN issues, etc), I've had WAY less time to do anything good. I missed a whole day of EBing yesterday.

And of course my wife and I had an argument involving work from home expectations after I told her "no I'm working" when she asked for something. (My fault; I didn't answer with the appropriate tone.)


----------



## Orchid PE

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/488302-florida-governor-refuses-to-close-beaches-amid-covid-19-outbreak


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Market Basket just released the Elderly Hours.
> 
> 530-7am.
> 
> My Gram started laughing hysterically at that


Wait, they assume that all elderly folks wake up at that time? Profiling!!! 



jean15paul_PE said:


> I really thought working from home would give me more free time. Participate on EB more, maybe get in some day gaming, relax, etc. WRONG!!! With the same amount of work, plus more distractions, and struggles with my setup (transferring files, VPN issues, etc), I've had WAY less time to do anything good. I missed a whole day of EBing yesterday.
> 
> And of course my wife and I had an argument involving work from home expectations after I told her "no I"m working" when she asked for something. (My fault; I didn't answer with the appropriate tone.)


Unfortunately I've been having the same problem with my family. I think the whole ordeal is stressing us out more than we realize.


----------



## Orchid PE

Looks like your vacation is still a go


----------



## Orchid PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I really thought working from home would give me more free time. Participate on EB more, maybe get in some day gaming, relax, etc. WRONG!!! With the same amount of work, plus more distractions, and struggles with my setup (transferring files, VPN issues, etc), I've had WAY less time to do anything good. I missed a whole day of EBing yesterday.
> 
> And of course my wife and I had an argument involving work from home expectations after I told her "no I"m working" when she asked for something. (My fault; I didn't answer with the appropriate tone.)


Did you just have a literal double post? Mafia thread wasn't enough exposure? Lol


----------



## Road Guy

I haven't gotten shit done today..  second monitor work gave me gives me this message and I cant seem to make it work (i dont have that resolution option available in system settings?)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Did you just have a literal double post? Mafia thread wasn't enough exposure? Lol


I posted in the mafia thread first because I feel like that is my "friends" thread.lol  But then I was like... It's more on topic here.

#dontjudgeme


----------



## Orchid PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I feel like that is my "friends" thread.


Oh I see.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Wait, they assume that all elderly folks wake up at that time? Profiling!!!
> 
> Unfortunately I've been having the same problem with my family. I think the whole ordeal is stressing us out more than we realize.


Most of the stores here are doing it as the hour before their official opening time.  The local CoOp has made it the 1st hour of their new modified hours. And is the only store I've seen include disabled &amp; immunocompromised folks in the early shop


----------



## Road Guy

Well were all going to be eating our dog and cats for them soon, might as well give them first shot at the TP!

Yes I am a dick, sorry, not sorry..... i said the same to my mom who is only 70 and feels like she needs this... not...


----------



## txjennah PE

Husband sends me a meme on IG.
I start typing a response.
From the other room: "...that's a lot of typing.  I'm right here. You can just talk to me."


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Some might find this interesting and useful. To me, it sounds like there is some valid supplementation that can be done. I don't see it as hurting to try anyway. YMMV.

Noted article highlight:
" The most potent lectin against the SARS-CoV-induced cytopathicity is the mannose-specific plant lectin isolated from leek (APA) with an EC50 of 0.45 μg/ml and a selectivity index of &gt;222. In addition, the N-acetyl glucosamine-specific lectins isolated from the stinging nettle (UDA) and from the tobacco plant (Nictaba) are also markedly active against the SARS-CoV with a selectivity index of &gt;77 and &gt;59,"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354207002380


----------



## frazil

^ translation please


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

frazil said:


> ^ translation please


Eat leeks? Idk


----------



## Dleg

Smoke tobacco?  or eat it?


----------



## Orchid PE

I picked a bad time to quit smoking.


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Well were all going to be eating our dog and cats for them soon, might as well give them first shot at the TP!
> 
> Yes I am a dick, sorry, not sorry..... i said the same to my mom who is only 70 and feels like she needs this... not...


Damn, all we have are a couple guppies.  I knew we should have gotten a cat.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I posted in the mafia thread first because I feel like that is my "friends" thread.lol  But then I was like... It's more on topic here.
> 
> #dontjudgeme


judging hard.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## Orchid PE

Well, my buddy who is a higher-up at a resort down at the beach said they're having a meeting about lay-offs today. To many cancellations for this time of the year. That hit quickly.


----------



## Master slacker

jean15paul_PE said:


> And of course my wife and I had an argument involving work from home expectations after I told her "no I'm working" when she asked for something. (My fault; I didn't answer with the appropriate tone.)


Hence why I'm still going to the office (I'm here right now).  Wife was expecting that, by working from home, I could work on screening in the deck and occasionally check emails or answer the phone.  Doesn't quite work like that.  She got miffed.


----------



## chart94 PE

Day 4: Officially out of grocery store monopoly game pieces. Doggo going crazy, staying at my parents to help out. Think i might have to go "check on my place" later this weekend...


----------



## goodal

RBHeadge PE said:


> All of that falls under the category of dangerous bullshit.


Thats fine you dont have to believe it, but I was told that by an actual state official.  So unless you have a better source than the interwebz or CNN you have no right to cast doubt on it.  Other than the fact than im just some poster on the other end of the internet.


----------



## Orchid PE

Top?


----------



## txjennah PE

goodal said:


> Thats fine you dont have to believe it, but I was told that by an actual state official.  So unless you have a better source than the interwebz or CNN you have no right to cast doubt on it.  Other than the fact than im just some poster on the other end of the internet.


But does the state official have any medical expertise? (I'm guessing the answer is no.)  You can hold a title and still spread a lot of dangerous bullshit.  Look at Dr. Oz. Expert cardiologist? Yes.  But also someone who disguises a lot of bullshit as ~~medical advice~~


----------



## JayKay PE

goodal said:


> Thats fine you dont have to believe it, but I was told that by an actual state official.  So unless you have a better source than the interwebz or CNN you have no right to cast doubt on it.  Other than the fact than im just some poster on the other end of the internet.


Multiple medical professionals have said that because this is an animal-to-human transmission (thus making it a 'novel' virus) it's difficult to predict what it is, especially since it mutated quickly from simple animal-to-human (which is easily controlled) to  human-to-human transmission.  That's what is making this virus so hard to contain and potentially treat.  Unlike the previous iterations of the flu, the coronovirus already, I believe, has 2 or more different strains.  It is mutating and I don't think enough people are taking this seriously enough/are listening to people who are not medical professionals.  

State officials are potentially the last people I'd talk to about the nature of the virus.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

JayKay PE said:


> State officials are potentially the last people I'd talk to about the nature of the virus.


Yeah, especially because many of these "officials" have biases and agendas of their own.

The other problem is that, if they are not part of the medical community, then it looks like a game of telephone, rather than a statement based on actual research..."she said that he said that she said that..."


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah ask them what grade they got in inorganic chemistry.


----------



## NikR_PE

Our company had postponed annual raises till they can asses the damage from this pandemic.


----------



## JayKay PE

Jesus Christ, and my boomer co-workers are ordering Jimmy John's.  For delivery.

I just...I get that restaurants and fast food places are open.  But maybe you shouldn't be ordering/eating food that is prepped outside you home when a viral health pandemic is going on?  Maybe that's be being overly cautious, but the mouth is one of the main gateways for this thing and health workers are usually the first to get sick/be unable to take sick leave from work so they keep working.


----------



## txjennah PE

JayKay PE said:


> Jesus Christ, and my boomer co-workers are ordering Jimmy John's.  For delivery.
> 
> I just...I get that restaurants and fast food places are open.  But maybe you shouldn't be ordering/eating food that is prepped outside you home when a viral health pandemic is going on?  Maybe that's be being overly cautious, but the mouth is one of the main gateways for this thing and health workers are usually the first to get sick/be unable to take sick leave from work so they keep working.


You're not being overly cautious at all. We haven't been eating out and we have no plans to until this dies down.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> Jesus Christ, and my boomer co-workers are ordering Jimmy John's.  For delivery.
> 
> I just...I get that restaurants and fast food places are open.  But maybe you shouldn't be ordering/eating food that is prepped outside you home when a viral health pandemic is going on?  Maybe that's be being overly cautious, but the mouth is one of the main gateways for this thing and health workers are usually the first to get sick/be unable to take sick leave from work so they keep working.


You are technically correct. But the reality is that many people don't / can't / don't know how to make their own food. That also requires you to be able to go to the grocery store (equally risky?), and find food to buy (not guaranteed).


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> You are technically correct. But the reality is that many people don't / can't / don't know how to make their own food. That also requires you to be able to go to the grocery store (equally risky?), and find food to buy (not guaranteed).


Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence about this one as well. Seems like there's a risk no matter what you do; even the food you get at the grocery store *could* be contaminated.

We also don't want our favorite restaurants to go out of business, seeing as how pandemics aren't exactly friendly to the livelihoods of food service employees (although that will probably be offset a little by whatever gov't stimulus package is currently in the works).

@JayKay PE does have a point about health workers, though. But I guess they gotta get their sustenance somewhere...


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence about this one as well. Seems like there's a risk no matter what you do; even the food you get at the grocery store *could* be contaminated.
> 
> We also don't want our favorite restaurants to go out of business, seeing as how pandemics aren't exactly friendly to the livelihoods of food service employees (although that will probably be offset a little by whatever gov't stimulus package is currently in the works).


Yeah same


----------



## Road Guy

I think you have to assumed we’re all going to be exposed to it - so I wouldn’t really fret the food part - we are not wiping boxes of cereal we buy at the store.

Under 60 and don’t smoke or have other medical issues you will likely self care at home for a week.... 

Kind of weird the media isn’t telling people that if you are a smoker and get this you are fucked!


----------



## ruggercsc

Road Guy said:


> I think you have to assumed we’re all going to be exposed to it - so I wouldn’t really fret the food part - we are not wiping boxes of cereal we buy at the store.
> 
> Under 60 and don’t smoke or have other medical issues you will likely self care at home for a week....
> 
> Kind of weird the media isn’t telling people that if you are a smoker and get this you are fucked!


I am so glad I only vape gummy bear flavored ejuice.


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> I think you have to assumed we’re all going to be exposed to it - so I wouldn’t really fret the food part - we are not wiping boxes of cereal we buy at the store.
> 
> Under 60 and don’t smoke or have other medical issues you will likely self care at home for a week....
> 
> Kind of weird the media isn’t telling people that if you are a smoker and get this you are fucked!


*has seen multiple articles saying that if you're a smoker you're fucked*

I mean, it's an infection of the lungs, right?  Specifically targeting something that is fairly vulnerable for more of our population than we realize?  Asthma = lungs.  Immuno-compromised = usually lungs and/or other delicate organs.  Smoking/vaping = damages lungs.

I'm not worried about the food prep, per se, it's more the delivery in-between.  I don't know what temperature that technically needs to be reached to denature the virus, but I'm assuming it would be reached with cooked foods.

People just need to learn to cook.  Call up mom and ask for a walk-through to make pierogies.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 16857


I did not see the sink the first time.


----------



## JayKay PE

vhab49_PE said:


> I did not see the sink the first time.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

JayKay PE said:


>


Pretty much so. Be nice, I'm stuck in a house with two preteens.  This shit is not good for anyone.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

vhab49_PE said:


> Pretty much so. Be nice, I'm stuck in a house with two preteens.  This shit is not good for anyone.


If you need a distraction, Mafia is always there..


----------



## txjennah PE

I've had some pretty funny teleconferences with little toddlers rambling in the background and their parents having to mute the line so they could yell at their kids.


----------



## JayKay PE

Ugh.  Boomer coworker is like, "I've had a little something in my throat, but it's not bad/I don't think it's serious." and then she got a little snotty when I was like, "If you're sick, you should stay at home.  What if there was someone immuno-compromised in the office?"

Jesus Christ.  I can't.


----------



## txjennah PE

JayKay PE said:


> Ugh.  Boomer coworker is like, "I've had a little something in my throat, but it's not bad/I don't think it's serious." and then she got a little snotty when I was like, "If you're sick, you should stay at home.  What if there was someone immuno-compromised in the office?"
> 
> Jesus Christ.  I can't.


Why is she getting snotty? She doesn't do any legit work anyway right?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

txjennah PE said:


> I've had some pretty funny teleconferences with little toddlers rambling in the background and their parents having to mute the line so they could yell at their kids.


We have to keep a log of what we're doing at home. So I'm writing it like a diary entry. And Moo is my intern. 

My coworker was concerned about Moo drooling on my drawings that are for him. And I'm just like "1. she doesn't drool. 2. you're not getting the physical copies anytime soon so..."

I expect when my PM finally starts working from home, we'll have the screaming kids on the teleconferences since he doesn't have a great space to work at home.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Thank you NY EZ Pass for the update on your COVID19 plan... &gt;_&lt;


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

triple!?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

frazil said:


> ^ translation please


Eating leeks and consuming stinging nettle supplements (root not extract) may have some benefit for warding off covid-19. You would have to consume raw, uncooked plant matter because lectins are destroyed via cooking (I guess the lectins in stinging nettle are heat resistant so maybe you could make tea with the leaves ?)... which also means smoking tobacco would have no benefit.  I suppose raw tobacco leaf would work too, but there are some other side effects there. Well, there are some notable side effects of nettle for that matter (see here: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-664/stinging-nettle). There are a number of stinging nettle root supplements.  I would probably stick to leeks, personally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin


----------



## Road Guy

So I have to eat raw leafs and wash my hands?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Road Guy said:


> So I have to eat raw leafs and wash my hands?


Eat raw _leeks,_ supplement with nettle root, wash your hands, gargle with bleach, and inhale lysol aerosol fumes every five minutes and you should be golden.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

I've had stinging nettle before. it came in my CSA.

I will also stick to leeks.


----------



## NikR_PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> If you need a distraction, Mafia is always there..


Maybe @vhab49_PE does not want to owe a debt to the mafia.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Nettle root has long been used for prostrate health, and if you scroll down here https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/urtica-dioica 

you will see that addressed and that the lectins in question are found in nettle root.


----------



## txjennah PE

Are you all starting a new Mafia game? If so, I'll join.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

txjennah PE said:


> Are you all starting a new Mafia game? If so, I'll join.


Well, we gotta finish the one that's going on first. Mafia's killing it (read: them) this round.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

NikR_PE said:


> Maybe @vhab49_PE does not want to owe a debt to the mafia.


I just don't want to vote for @NikR_PE again, because you know that is my go-to.


----------



## Road Guy

https://apple.news/A7q4EoD-STVejaPVkNt2L-w


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> https://apple.news/A7q4EoD-STVejaPVkNt2L-w


Jesus Christ. Maybe the military can just drop a MOAB on these party areas and sterlize them for the rest of us?


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> https://apple.news/A7q4EoD-STVejaPVkNt2L-w








In other news...my horseback riding class it happening tomorrow.  There is no social distancing like horseback riding.  Can't get within 6-feet easily with anyone once your on a horse's back.


----------



## jeb6294

JayKay PE said:


> Jesus Christ, and my boomer co-workers are ordering Jimmy John's.  For delivery.
> 
> I just...I get that restaurants and fast food places are open.  But maybe you shouldn't be ordering/eating food that is prepped outside you home when a viral health pandemic is going on?  Maybe that's be being overly cautious, but the mouth is one of the main gateways for this thing and health workers are usually the first to get sick/be unable to take sick leave from work so they keep working.


I just think it's funny that they think carryout/delivery only are going to do anything because you're not really eliminating any hands in the pot...at most, you might avoid the server if you're picking it up, but all you're doing is substituting the delivery person if you get it delivered.  I suppose you wouldn't be sitting around other people, but bars/restaurants around here had already been spreading tables apart when the first cases showed up in Ohio.


----------



## Orchid PE

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/us-coronavirus-case-updates-thursday/index.html


----------



## Road Guy

gotta love those articles that sneak the word *possibility in there hoping most wont read it....


----------



## Orchid PE

_*resisting the urge to say "it's about time we had a good cleansing" since my ancestry is German*_

#toosoon


----------



## Road Guy

I really think that what this 2 week work shut down is for, to prepare for the inevitable loss of some people who are very sick already.  That is just me reading between the lines of what is happening at the hospital the wife works at..  They &amp; most others hospitals have stopped all elective surgery &amp;  non life or limb threatening patients and they are converting normal rooms to ones that can handle respiratory issues.  And yes converting a floor to a very large hospice type unit.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> I just think it's funny that they think carryout/delivery only are going to do anything because you're not really eliminating any hands in the pot...at most, you might avoid the server if you're picking it up, but all you're doing is substituting the delivery person if you get it delivered.  I suppose you wouldn't be sitting around other people, but bars/restaurants around here had already been spreading tables apart when the first cases showed up in Ohio.


Yeah, it's about the people in the restaurants together. Not about let people providing you food.


----------



## Orchid PE

Dang, we were having groceries delivered today and they're out of everything! The dude sent us a picture of the meat section and there is zero meat of anything (not even breakfast sausage). Also no bread, no frozen meats, no yogurt, no cereal, heck even the spicy cheez its!


----------



## Road Guy

Coach Sean Payton has tested positive for the Virus - at least thing thing doesnt appear to be very picky (rich, poor, famous, regular joe etc)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Yeah, It's hitting New Orleans HARD right now. I'm pretty sure that our numbers are growing faster than any other US city (if not #1, we're close to the top). I suspect that I lot of transmission happened during Mardi Gras celebrations (which was ~2 weeks before the outbreak became obvious here in the US), and gave us a major head start. No proof of that theory though, but the timeline lines up.


----------



## Orchid PE

Maybe this is just nature's way of combating our overpopulation and maintaining balance.

We thought we could extend our lifespans and save people from dying with modern medicine, but now we see how overpopulation can lead to a virus spreading like wildfire.

Our own advancements will be our downfall.


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> This reads like mother nature / god / spaghetti lord / etc  is coming to square up the marvels of modern medicine that we have invented to keep the elderly and sick alive..
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-united-states-deaths/index.html
> 
> For those not in healthcare when they say "underlying health conditions" that typically means - already gravely ill  / heavy smoker / drinker / heavy drug use / etc


I definitely had this thought. Disease "ignores" the strong. (Although it remains to be seen that there won't be health effects to those who are asymptomatic/not don't get seriously ill). For example, loss of lung function in those who fully recover (though this may be those who got seriously ill, and recovered)



txjennah PE said:


> I like how IT is all, "Oh, there are lots of things you can do without VPN." Yeah, except, you know...access your work files on the network...which is KIND OF THE WHOLE POINT.


You CAN do lots of things without VPN, like watch Netflix, sleep, read books . 



Chattaneer PE said:


> I picked a bad time to quit smoking.











JayKay PE said:


> Ugh.  Boomer coworker is like, "I've had a little something in my throat, but it's not bad/I don't think it's serious." and then she got a little snotty when I was like, "If you're sick, you should stay at home.  What if there was someone immuno-compromised in the office?"
> 
> Jesus Christ.  I can't.


If she's snotty, she should def stay home.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Yeah, It's hitting New Orleans HARD right now. I'm pretty sure that our numbers are growing faster than any other US city (if not #1, we're close to the top). I suspect that I lot of transmission happened during Mardi Gras celebrations (which was ~2 weeks before the outbreak became obvious here in the US), and gave us a major head start. No proof of that theory though, but the timeline lines up.


see: Philadelphia Liberty Loan Parade.



Roarbark said:


> I definitely had this thought. Disease "ignores" the strong. (Although it remains to be seen that there won't be health effects to those who are asymptomatic/not don't get seriously ill). For example, loss of lung function in those who fully recover (though this may be those who got seriously ill, and recovered)


One of the devious things about this virus, is that man people look at the fatality rate and age distribution and assume that they'll be fine. What isn't being reported well is that a significant portion of population (10-20%), regardless of age, are incurring serious permanent damage to their lungs.



Roarbark said:


> If she's snotty, she should def stay home.


Runny nose, itchy eyes, sneezing are NOT symptoms of covid-19. While they might be symptomatic of a cold, they may also be mundane seasonal allergies. Those of us with seasonal allergies know the difference and can still go to work without fear of harming others during simpler times. Right now though, those who can telework, should telework.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Roarbark said:


> I definitely had this thought. Disease "ignores" the strong. (Although it remains to be seen that there won't be health effects to those who are asymptomatic/not don't get seriously ill). For example, loss of lung function in those who fully recover (though this may be those who got seriously ill, and recovered)
> 
> You CAN do lots of things without VPN, like watch Netflix, sleep, read books .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she's snotty, she should def stay home.


I took "snottty" to mean "uppity" "rude" not a nose full of snot


----------



## Roarbark

RBHeadge PE said:


> One of the devious things about this virus, is that man people look at the fatality rate and age distribution and assume that they'll be fine. What isn't being reported well is that a significant portion of population (10-20%), regardless of age, are incurring serious permanent damage to their lungs.


Exactly. This is the part that scares me.



RBHeadge PE said:


> Runny nose, itchy eyes, sneezing are NOT symptoms of covid-19. While they might be symptomatic of a cold, they may also be mundane seasonal allergies. Those of us with seasonal allergies know the difference and can still go to work without fear of harming others during simpler times. Right now though, those who can telework, should telework.


Fair enough. It was half joking, playing on the double meaning of "snotty", Good job keeping unhelpful bullshit off the shelves though.


----------



## JayKay PE

Roarbark said:


> If she's snotty, she should def stay home.


She is ultra snotty and is ultra disrespectful (barges into my office to tell me about her flights to Italy being cancelled, leaving, and not closing the door behind her, which happened multiple times in one day with me closing the door after her every time). 
 

it’s hell but I shall prevail!!!


----------



## Roarbark

JayKay PE said:


> She is ultra snotty and is ultra disrespectful (barges into my office to tell me about her flights to Italy being cancelled, leaving, and not closing the door behind her, which happened multiple times in one day with me closing the door after her every time).
> 
> 
> it’s hell but I shall prevail!!!


Which level of Dante's Hell is that?


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Roarbark said:


> Fair enough. It was half joking, playing on the double meaning of "snotty", Good job keeping unhelpful bullshit off the shelves though.


That was partially on me, im distracted and i read through it all quickly. I might be off the clock, but I'm still doing workstuff


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Roarbark said:


> Which level of Dante's Hell is that?


Sounds like the fourth?


----------



## Road Guy

No clue what this means, but keep this in mind when people try and give you advice....


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## JayKay PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> Roarbark said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which level of Dante's Hell is that?
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the fourth?
Click to expand...

One foot in the fourth and one in the fifth?  Miserly mixed with being sullen about it.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## jeb6294

RBHeadge PE said:


> One of the devious things about this virus, is that man people look at the fatality rate and age distribution and assume that they'll be fine. What isn't being reported well is that a significant portion of population (10-20%), regardless of age, are incurring serious permanent damage to their lungs.


Unless you can provide some kind of credible evidence otherwise, I’m calling this BS. The info I’m seeing say that 17-29% (depending on which study you want to use) of the people with severe illness developed lung damage. Only 6% develop the severe illness. So, only 6% will develop serious issues and of that 6%, 17% will have lasting (not permanent) lung damage that could take months or years to heal.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

So you acknowledge that lasting lung damage associated with this virus is real?


----------



## JayKay PE

*watches rising discussion on statistics combined with medical discourse*


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Roarbark said:


> For example, loss of lung function in those who fully recover (though this may be those who got seriously ill, and recovered)


This is the thing that scares me the most.


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> No clue what this means, but keep this in mind when people try and give you advice....


I know this has something to with with respiratory health and that the regular ratio of PaO2/FiO2 should be like 500?  Which means &lt;100 is ulllltra bad.  Other then that...


----------



## Road Guy

The wife had 2 Covid patients yesterday - One was very old who already had lung cancer, the other was only 53 with no real previous "bad" medical history - as someone who thinks I am healthy at 46,  53 doesn't seem that old as it used to be - but who knows how truthful people are about previous medial history.

I am trying to get my parents to take this seriously, it sounds like this is a very slow and miserable death, if you have to go to ICU and and eventually get incubated you are looking at a less than 40% survival rate-  If you have elderly relatives who think this is not a big deal tell them if they catch this they will most likely spend there last few days prontated (sp?) on a ventilator and there are no visitors allowed in. You will die alone.  

Once you get to the hospital and test positive they wont let you leave either - at risk of spreading the infection.


----------



## chart94 PE

Roarbark said:


> Exactly. This is the part that scares me.
> 
> Fair enough. It was half joking, playing on the double meaning of "snotty", Good job keeping unhelpful bullshit off the shelves though.


----------



## Ble_PE

I'm not sure how many are still at work or not, but this is NSFW:



Spoiler







[\spoiler]


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I took "snottty" to mean "uppity" "rude" not a nose full of snot


Either way... should stay home.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Ble_PE said:


> I'm not sure how many are still at work or not, but this is NSFW:


Working yes... at work no.


----------



## jeb6294

RBHeadge PE said:


> So you acknowledge that lasting lung damage associated with this virus is real?


In a minuscule portion of the population who have pre-existing medical issues? Sure, whatever.  Just like the flu does and has been doing for eons. People passing around misinformation are the reason morons are out buying toilet paper by the pallet.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Road Guy

Chattaneer PE said:


>


I went in yesterday to grab a few things and that’s totally my office....


----------



## Orchid PE

Wait, so I guess animals _can_ get the virus? News articles says the first dog to test positive has died, and a second dog tests positive.

Looks like I'll have to tell our dogs to stay home from work.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know, but I hope were not wasting a lot of time and research on pets?  Are there test kits at the Vet office?

Yougner kid got an email that all AP Exams will be online - Is it wrong that since my odler son is home from college and got a 5 on his AP Calculus exam to let him take it for him? I mean that does save some money if you dont have to take it in college?


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Wait, so I guess animals _can_ get the virus? News articles says the first dog to test positive has died, and a second dog tests positive.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to tell our dogs to stay home from work.






Road Guy said:


> I dont know, but I hope were not wasting a lot of time and research on pets?  Are there test kits at the Vet office?
> 
> Yougner kid got an email that all AP Exams will be online - Is it wrong that since my odler son is home from college and got a 5 on his AP Calculus exam to let him take it for him? I mean that does save some money if you dont have to take it in college?


https://www.idexx.com/en/about-idexx/news/no-covid-19-cases-pets/


----------



## Orchid PE

As long as we're posting links...

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/second-dog-in-hong-kong-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/asia/pets-coronavirus-spread-intl-hnk/index.html

It looks like they can get it, but can't transmit it to humans. And aren't showing any symptoms yet. But it's only a matter of time.


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> Yougner kid got an email that all AP Exams will be online - Is it wrong that since my odler son is home from college and got a 5 on his AP Calculus exam to let him take it for him? I mean that does save some money if you dont have to take it in college?


Does the younger one need to take cal 2+? If not, I suppose it wouldn't be any different from my sister writing some of my English papers lol


----------



## Orchid PE

Well I just got back from the weirdest grocery shopping trip I've been on before. The store was still out of most things, like they have been all week. I ended up just getting a bunch of random food while I still could. I'll be heading there tomorrow morning because talking with one of the clerks they said they'll be getting a shipment of meat in. But he also said to make sure you get here as soon as the doors open, because there's already lines forming.


----------



## Roarbark

Me, when I hear my housemate (who I haven't seen for a good 4-5 days) coughing in his room:


----------



## Road Guy

I’d kill Him just to be safe....


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Road Guy

If we make it to Christmas this will be the go to gift


----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## P-E

For those in the Denver area.   Business owned by a friend of a friend of mine.


----------



## Orchid PE

What sort of long term impacts do you guys foresee from this pandemic? Whether it be in business, technically, personal lives, etc. We can see how events like 9/11 and the recession caused lasting impacts, and I'm interested in knowing what could come of this.


----------



## frazil

I think we’re going to move into a Ready Player One world.  All the schools, colleges, and a lot of companies are getting setup to run online. We’re going to see that there are benefits. A lot of stores and restaurants are working out the kinks for online ordering and delivery. We had that before but not at this level. We’re all going to start living in a virtual world much faster than we would have.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I went in yesterday to grab a few things and that’s totally my office....


We aren’t even allowed to go to the office. If there’s something you need, you have to send in a request so they can schedule it to make sure 1)there aren’t more than 10 people there at a time and, 2)so there’s not more than one person from any department there at the same time. Keep in mind, we are the entire 7th floor of the building so it’s a little bit ridiculous.


----------



## frazil

sorry millennials


----------



## ruggercsc

Chattaneer PE said:


> What sort of long term impacts do you guys foresee from this pandemic? Whether it be in business, technically, personal lives, etc. We can see how events like 9/11 and the recession caused lasting impacts, and I'm interested in knowing what could come of this.


Industries and Concepts that could grow after this crisis


Online Learning

Logistic Specialists

Amazon

Healthcare Professionals and Healthcare Industry in General

Big Pharma

Food Delivery

Manufacturing and Industrial Engineering - Ability to change out production to different products (distillers/hand sanitizers and Auto Industry/Ventilators) 

Dogs - More interaction with their human companions in more work from home/online learning scenarios (Assumes your dog likes you)

Border Wall Supporters - Ability to secure your border in crisis

The Robotic Industry - Develop robots that can keep working in crisis/pandemic

Conspiracy Theorists

Prayer

Industries and concepts that could be affected negatively


Cruise Ship Industry - Further Nail in the coffin

Cinaplex Type Movie Theaters - It will be interesting see how the release straight to VOD at $20 works.  IMAX and the old boutique/retro movie theaters should survive.

Open Office Concepts - does not work with Social Distancing and no assigned desks.

Small Liberal Arts Colleges and Universities 

LEED aspect of lots of people in small spaces

Open Markets where you can buy anything that moves as food

Traditional Churches/Religion 

Just my $0.02 and I am not try to offend anyone.


----------



## ruggercsc

TOP

Sorry for the double post, but does anyone think the US Senators that dumped stock will be prosecuted for trading on insider training?


----------



## Road Guy

Or at the very least hang them


----------



## Orchid PE

frazil said:


> View attachment 16910
> 
> 
> 
> sorry millennials


Multiple news sources fact checked this and confirmed it was Fake News.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

frazil said:


> One thing I don't understand is why the number of potential infections in the US is expected to be so high, when in China the peak seems to have already occurred and the total is around 80,000.  There's an article on NY times, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-trump-response.html, that lets you adjust a chart to see the impact of early interventions and aggressive tactics to reduce the number of cases.  The lowest I can get the peak number is around 500,000, with 50,000 deaths.  (If you don't do anything this tool estimates about 100,000,000 people will get infected and 1,000,000 will die.)
> 
> Why would we expect to get so many more cases here than China did at the peak, when they have a lot more people and were caught off guard by this, while we've had time to get prepared?  What am I missing?
> 
> Obviously this tool makes some assumptions, and I know China has taken some drastic measures, but these numbers seem way off.


Great article @frazil! I hover around the intervention bar chart and adjusted the severity to aggressive intervention measure and the graph indicates infections roughly 466,000 between June and July. We are seeing this number right now globally roughly speaking.

First of all, don't listen to guys like me  .

On China, my point of view is that China has controlled information on the outbreak, including information going in and out of the country. We'll see in the coming months  when our Chinese brothers and sisters return to normal business operation if there is a second wave increase of infected cases. As of the moment, there is no evidence to suggest  beyond reasonable doubt that covid-19 virus was from wild animals and not from the laboratory. 

The World Health Organization seem to indicate the infected cases are slowing down in china, while in Italy, it is increasing exponentially. Perhaps Papa Pope Francis should heed the warnings and guidelines of scientists and medical experts. Imagine a saint with a PhD in Virology or a PhD in Engineering. 

We'll see in the coming months........Stay healthy!

Peace and Blessings


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; sometimes I wonder if the WHO just says whatever China tells them to


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Supe

To add on to Ruggersc and Frazil's lists:

1) Gun industry is going to see a boom in sales and ammo for an extended period.  Any politician spouting the "we'll take your guns away" line will be signing off on their own political suicide.  

2) For a while, people are going to take "prepping" seriously.  Be it medical supplies, TP, MRE's, etc., especially if shelter in place becomes more widespread.  I think more people are going to start gardening/canning who have the option.

3) The anti-vaxx movement is going to take a huge hit, and I can honestly see a violent response towards anti-vaxxers in lieu of the "you're loopy" responses and memes.  I wouldn't be surprised if vaccinations against infectious disease becomes a federal mandate, not just a "you can't attend school if you're not vaccinated" policy.

4) We will see a multinational pandemic response team to streamline research efforts and medical supply chains if/when the shit were to hit the fan again.

5) Local restaurants and businesses will see a temporary boom when we see new cases rapidly decline, as everyone who has gone stir crazy in isolation looks to get out and stretch.


----------



## Master slacker

Well, our governor just ORDERED everyone to stay locked in... except that it's not being enforced.  And this has lots of exceptions, too.  Ugh


----------



## blybrook PE

I have to laugh at the Anchorage hunker down order that's now in effect until the end of the month. Marijuana and liquor stores are considered essential businesses and will remain open.


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah but just think how many more patients would end up in the hospital if you took peoples booze and weed away! - aint no one got time for that.. 

So apparently we can now get pitchers of margarits to go (like from your local Mexican place ) - going to have to give that a try today..

Also I didn't check my ammo stash close enough, I mistook 4 boxes of 357 for 9MM and so now I have all 9mm ammo and barely any 357 - currently tying to orchestrate a trade on nextdoor.


----------



## jeb6294

Ohio has joined the states issuing shelter in place orders, well, starting tonight at midnight anyway.  It's basically the same as what we were already being told to do, i.e. maintain separation, only critical businesses stay open, only go out for necessities, etc., except that it is now an 'order' so it is enforceable.

In today's latest everybody is freaking out and being stupid moment, we just got an email that one of the two people in the Federal building who got tested came back negative.  In the meantime, GSA is going to scrub down the building.  Uhhh, we've been teleworking since last Monday.  Even if go by the more conservative estimates on how long the virus lives outside a host, why is there any reason to clean a building that has been sitting empty for a week now?


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Road Guy said:


> If we make it to Christmas this will be the go to gift


I'd buy it.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Interesting to me how WA has NOT declared a S-I-P order yet. Seems like with how hard this virus is hitting our state, it would have been the first to make it happen.

Inslee is noticeably irked by Seattlites enjoying the sunny weather this weekend...Having lived in Seattle, I sorta don't blame them for wanting to enjoy the few sunny days they have...but still am baffled by people's lack of care.

Like many, I wouldn't be surprised if the state issued the order sometime today.


----------



## Road Guy

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/keeping-the-coronavirus-from-infecting-health-care-workers

The wife read this and said it made her feel a little better - sounds like policies emerging are having a good track record of healthcare workers not getting sick - 

Her gripe is like all jobs, no communication - last week there were told to use surgical masks except for around presumptive positive - but they didnt tell them the why - 

They seem to think once these testing kits are available the lock downs will lesson up, except for in the very high density areas (NY, LA, SF,etc)  

_Those of us who must go out into the world and have contact with people don’t have to panic if we find out that someone with the coronavirus has been in the same room or stood closer than we wanted for a moment. Transmission seems to occur primarily through sustained exposure in the absence of basic protection or through the lack of hand hygiene after contact with secretions._


----------



## JayKay PE

Well, Indiana Governor just issued a stay at home order for residents.  But I'm an essential employee.  Got to print out my memos just in case I get stopped by the cops on Wednesday morning.

*sigh*


----------



## snickerd3

JayKay PE said:


> Well, Indiana Governor just issued a stay at home order for residents.  But I'm an essential employee.  Got to print out my memos just in case I get stopped by the cops on Wednesday morning.
> 
> *sigh*


mr snick is essential too, live in a state with with stay at home order, work in state that does not.  He printed that essential letter out right quick.


----------



## frazil

I got my official "Non Essential Notification" email last week.  I'd rather be home, but...ouch.


----------



## Roarbark

Master slacker said:


> Well, our governor just ORDERED everyone to stay locked in... except that it's not being enforced.  And this has lots of exceptions, too.  Ugh


Same. Thou shalt not jog in parks. But sidewalks are okay. You are also allowed to go out for necessary health and safety reasons, e.g. to *"take care of family members of pets"* as the news source I was reading put it.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Louisiana also issued a "stay at home" order, but it's really not super strict. It just says, don't go to work and don't hang out with other people. You can do basically anything else. Is this consistent with other places' orders?


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> Louisiana also issued a "stay at home" order, but it's really not super strict. It just says, don't go to work and don't hang out with other people. You can do basically anything else. Is this consistent with other places' orders?
> 
> View attachment 16918


Looks similar to what WA has right now. But that could change very quickly here; Inslee (our govn'r) is scheduled to address the public this evening.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## frazil

In Maryland today they announced that all non-essential businesses have to close, effective at 5pm.  I ordered some books for my daughter from Barnes &amp; Noble to pick up at the store, but I didn't hear about the executive order until 4:57pm.  I called the store and my order was ready but they wouldn't let me go get them.     Minor problem to have really.  But now I'm wondering, does delivery of non-essential things count?  If they shut all these businesses online ordering is going to increase, but it seems like we would be putting the delivery people at greater risk.


----------



## Road Guy

it does seem very lose in terms of whats staying open - I think all companies can do online deliveries?  Like its ok to drive to Wendy's but not Khols?  Target can stay open because they sell food?

Now I know why Kroger started also selling some clothes and toys and jewelry, they saw this shit coming a mile away!

I think another long term consequence is people will realize maybe living in a gigantic city isn't as great as they think it is &amp; no I have already called dibs on Rapid City!

You might be able to control other countries populations but I really don't think the US will take much more than a month of this and you will see some parts of society start to break down - 

Denver is also closing liquor stores - just kind of dumb - let people at least be home and day drink, especially since you put them out of work to begin with..


----------



## P-E

Maybe I should order a still.  Not bad for $126


----------



## frazil

Im confused by the lettuce, tomato and olive oil in the background.


----------



## Orchid PE

P-E said:


> Maybe I should order a still.  Not bad for $126


Not sure if joking, but definitely a bad idea.

A friend of mine ordered one online. He used it to make a lot of shine, and it was getting pretty popular in the area. He would stop by grocery stores and get all the fruits and veggies that were getting thrown out and would make stuff out of those.

One day, when he was at work, the ATF showed up to his house. His wife was home, and luckily she read the search warrant closely and the address was for his rental house. Apparently, he shipped the still to his old house before he moved. His wife told them it wasn't for this address so they didn't have permission to search. She called my buddy, he drove home and quickly disposed of his equipment. The ATF showed back up again, but could not find anything. He got lucky.

Apparently the company he purchased the still from was required to hand over all the information of people who purchased stills. I believe distilling equipment is illegal in all states but Missouri? (Without a distillery license, which is a pain in the butt to get. I've tried.) Heck, in Florida you weren't even legally allowed to own anything that could be used to make _mash._ Like corn.


----------



## P-E

Chattaneer PE said:


> Not sure if joking, but definitely a bad idea.
> 
> A friend of mine ordered one online. He used it to make a lot of shine, and it was getting pretty popular in the area. He would stop by grocery stores and get all the fruits and veggies that were getting thrown out and would make stuff out of those.
> 
> One day, when he was at work, the ATF showed up to his house. His wife was home, and luckily she read the search warrant closely and the address was for his rental house. Apparently, he shipped the still to his old house before he moved. His wife told them it wasn't for this address so they didn't have permission to search. She called my buddy, he drove home and quickly disposed of his equipment. The ATF showed back up again, but could not find anything. He got lucky.
> 
> Apparently the company he purchased the still from was required to hand over all the information of people who purchased stills. I believe distilling equipment is illegal in all states but Missouri? (Without a distillery license, which is a pain in the butt to get. I've tried.) Heck, in Florida you weren't even legally allowed to own anything that could be used to make _mash._ Like corn.


Nope. The equipment is legal, distilling is legal*

*Distilling alcohol is not legal unless you have a permit.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Master slacker

My wife went to Target yesterday and picked up a Pyrex bowl and one of those framed prints.  She said other than those stocking the shelves, there were only two other customers there, both wearing masks, and everyone gave her "the look".  I guess "the look" is what you get when you're out running errands and not being paranoid.


----------



## Supe

Working from home got me like


----------



## jeb6294

Apparently Ohio's shelter-in-place translates to business as usual.  Had to run up to the bank to get $$$ for the plumber and there were enough people out and about that it looked like any other day.  The plumber is here to fix our sewer lateral so it stops going into the front yard so I'd call that essential.  The guys up the street who are replacing someone's concrete driveway, not so much, but there they are.


----------



## Road Guy

Supe said:


> Working from home got me like


lol seriously - anyone know of a program that will keep my skype looking like my mouse is moving?


----------



## Road Guy

But does it make sense to you to on one hand close down restaurants and then on the other allow them to sell mixed drinks to go?

We have been trying to hit up some of the local places that still offer takeout and at this taco shop last night we noticed people getting margaritas to go, obviously I had to see what this was about - But I was the only on from my family  in the store since they limit the occupants to 5 customers, but I got our food and then 3 margaritas to go - 

I mean I dont really know if that is the best idea in the world?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> But does it make sense to you to on one hand close down restaurants and then on the other allow them to sell mixed drinks to go?
> 
> We have been trying to hit up some of the local places that still offer takeout and at this taco shop last night we noticed people getting margaritas to go, obviously I had to see what this was about - But I was the only on from my family  in the store since they limit the occupants to 5 customers, but I got our food and then 3 margaritas to go -
> 
> I mean I dont really know if that is the best idea in the world?


I mean, here restaurants and bars could always sell alcohol to go. We have drive-thru daiquiri shops in New Orleans. It sounds like the rest of the world is finally catching up.


----------



## Road Guy

but isnt that just in the downtown area?  like the strip in Vegas?

You can also buy mixed drinks to go in Wyoming, but I didn't think that was something you wanted with cars involved.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> but isnt that just in the downtown area?  like the strip in Vegas?
> 
> You can also buy mixed drinks to go in Wyoming, but I didn't think that was something you wanted with cars involved.


nope. anywhere in New Orleans. also there is no open container law here.

edit: well, that's not true. you're not allowed to have an open glass container in public, but that isn't enforced. And you're not allowed to have an open alcohol container in a car, but that's minimally enforce. Also legally, the daiquiri isn't open until the straw passed through the lid.

edit2: huh? googling. apparently the go-cup thing is only legal in the french quarter. who knew. that's definitely isn't the way it's applied.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

A WA distillery just announced it would be diverting all of its operations to producing hand sanitizer indefinitely. Very cool!


----------



## leggo PE

Road Guy said:


> anyone here from SF?  How is the lockdown? @leggo PE  Are you in the 7 million contained?


Hello! Yep, sure am. But now many more places around the country are too, so I don't feel so alone. I'm sure others feel the same, but it's hard for me to remember what day of the week it is now. But hey, I'm enjoying not having my commute and getting to eat much nicer lunches and more involved dinners (at an earlier time, too).

For what it's worth, we use TeamViewer to remote access our desktop. If we took one of our desktop monitors home, we wouldn't be able to access our two-screen desktop. So I had to leave both of my monitors at the office. I've been using my 13" macbook with a mouse, and just switching screens within TeamViewer. I'm in contact with IT to see if they will order me another monitor, but no confirmation of that yet.

Anyway, we're taking the social distancing thing pretty seriously! We haven't seen friends in two weeks, besides the couple of people we've talked through out the window of our apartment. Only leaving the house to go on runs, bike rides, and for groceries.


----------



## JayKay PE

@leggo PE’s state seems to be taking things seriously. Whereas I’m getting this from Indiana (helpful, but worrying. I think I can hear banjo music on the horizon):


----------



## frazil

frazil said:


> In Maryland today they announced that all non-essential businesses have to close, effective at 5pm.  I ordered some books for my daughter from Barnes &amp; Noble to pick up at the store, but I didn't hear about the executive order until 4:57pm.  I called the store and my order was ready but they wouldn't let me go get them.     Minor problem to have really.  But now I'm wondering, does delivery of non-essential things count?  If they shut all these businesses online ordering is going to increase, but it seems like we would be putting the delivery people at greater risk.


Ok, so I called the bookstore this morning and they said they're open today until 5pm.  My understanding of the executive order was that all non-essential business had to close from that point forward starting at 5pm yesterday...not that they could only stay open until 5pm each day.  I didn't ask questions, I just went and picked up the books.


----------



## Road Guy

I haven't been to a Barnes n Nobles in so long I had to look up and see if any were still in business out here (there are a few)


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> A WA distillery just announced it would be diverting all of its operations to producing hand sanitizer indefinitely. Very cool!


One of distilleries is making hand sanitizer too (I think our only distillery?)

They're selling a 750mL bottle at cost: 3$. 

So the cost of the bottle


----------



## JayKay PE

Lolololol, governor put a stay-at-home executive order in place starting at midnight.  I get a text message from my barn asking if I can do an earlier lesson on Friday.  Since all the barns closed in NYS, and I'm assuming horseback riding doesn't count as a 'essential' business, I had to text back to let them know I am only traveling to/from work during the order.  Plus I have a feeling I might be technically 'on call' during the weekend to help out.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Michael Scott PE

Road Guy said:


> lol seriously - anyone know of a program that will keep my skype looking like my mouse is moving?


A cat and a laser pointer will do the trick.


----------



## Road Guy

Well Prince Charles has testes Positive - 

News story said he was "continuing to work from home"?  The Prince works?  thats a bummer...


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> testes Positive


----------



## Road Guy

this small laptop keyboard is PIA


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> this small laptop keyboard is PIA


Lol, I was more trying to point out the unfortunate part of the autocorrect.

I could make a balls joke right now about Prince Charles, but I feel like that would be in bad taste.


----------



## JayKay PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Lol, I was more trying to point out the unfortunate part of the autocorrect.
> 
> I could make a* balls* joke right now about Prince Charles, but I feel like that would be in *bad taste*.


chebs spittin' the tru facts


----------



## Road Guy

would it be wrong if he dies before he get to be King?  Dude has been waiting a long fucking time...  Queen Elizabeth the Betty White of the UK


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Road Guy said:


> this small laptop keyboard is PIA


You don't have a second keyboard?


----------



## JayKay PE

Audi driver said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> this small laptop keyboard is PIA
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have a second keyboard?
Click to expand...

You don't have a third keyboard?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

JayKay PE said:


> You don't have a third keyboard?


I have 5.


----------



## Road Guy

I am going to the office after hours tonight to grab it - I also need my docking station because for whatever reason my "wired" keyboard for my home PC doesn't work in the regular USB port.


----------



## jeb6294

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Lol, I was more trying to point out the unfortunate part of the autocorrect.
> 
> I could make a balls joke right now about Prince Charles, but I feel like that would be in bad taste.


Not sure if anyone else has seen any of he conspiracy theories, but some are claiming this whole corona thing is intentionally being blown out of proportion to distract everyone's attention.  Supposedly, Epstein and Weinstein both started naming names in order to get easier sentences. If you believe the stories they're coming up with, these high profile cases don't really have it, they were named and using the virus as an excuse to get them out of the public eye.  Prince Andrew got into a world of shit being associated with Epstein so in this case it wouldn't be a stretch to say the Charleswas mixed up in it too...just sayin'.

Of course, to make this work, you would also have to believe that Tom Hanks was also named which is a lot harder to buy into.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know but I think if Corona killed every career politician in this country we would all be better off - &amp; if that happens then there is in fact a God and I will have my ass back in the pew on short notice!


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I dont know but I think if Corona killed every career politician in this country we would all be better off - &amp; if that happens then there is in fact a God and I will have my ass back in the pew on short notice!


Absolutely


----------



## Supe

jeb6294 said:


> Of course, to make this work, you would also have to believe that Tom Hanks was also named which is a lot harder to buy into.


Once Cosby went down, nobody is sacred!


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> One of distilleries is making hand sanitizer too (I think our only distillery?)
> 
> They're selling a 750mL bottle at cost: 3$.
> 
> So the cost of the bottle


Our local one is too, but they are selling it, and the smallest bottle they sell is 1 gallon. People (not businesses) were complaining that they were trying to take advantage of the situation, and they responded with, "We are just trying to stay in business and make it through this thing."

I don't think they are price gauging (?).  They are maybe doing a bit of markup on the cost they are sustaining to produce it.  I can't fault them for that.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> We have drive-thru daiquiri shops in New Orleans.


I have never wanted to visit LA more!!!


----------



## Michael Scott PE

Audi driver said:


> I have 5.


I have seventy, each one better than the last.


----------



## NikR_PE

Michael Scott said:


> I have seventy, each one better than the last.


Then just get rid of the last one and enjoy 69


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


>


I don't remember Bill Gates in Forrest Gump?  Man, I got to re-watch that.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

vhab49_PE said:


> Our local one is too, but they are selling it, and the smallest bottle they sell is 1 gallon. People (not businesses) were complaining that they were trying to take advantage of the situation, and they responded with, "We are just trying to stay in business and make it through this thing."
> 
> I don't think they are price gauging (?).  They are maybe doing a bit of markup on the cost they are sustaining to produce it.  I can't fault them for that.


I don't see that as taking advantage of the situation at all.

But who tf needs a gallon of hand sanitizer outside of businesses?! 

Flowfold is repurposing their manufacturing facility to make face shields for hospitals. I don't know if the face shields will leave Maine or not. But they have the ability to produce things that are needed so I don't see how that's taking advantage at all (Flowfold is still selling their regular products - I think just what's in stock tho).


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I don't see that as taking advantage of the situation at all.
> 
> But who tf needs a gallon of hand sanitizer outside of businesses?!
> 
> Flowfold is repurposing their manufacturing facility to make face shields for hospitals. I don't know if the face shields will leave Maine or not. But they have the ability to produce things that are needed so I don't see how that's taking advantage at all (Flowfold is still selling their regular products - I think just what's in stock tho).


They are mainly supplying first responders and hospitals.  The Army Corps bought 4 gallons (for now) for when the river starts to flood here in the next week or two. &lt;-- when that happens it is going to be a real shit show around here.


----------



## ulua808

jeb6294 said:


> Not sure if anyone else has seen any of he conspiracy theories, but some are claiming this whole corona thing is intentionally being blown out of proportion to distract everyone's attention.  Supposedly, Epstein and Weinstein both started naming names in order to get easier sentences. If you believe the stories they're coming up with, these high profile cases don't really have it, they were named and using the virus as an excuse to get them out of the public eye.  Prince Andrew got into a world of shit being associated with Epstein so in this case it wouldn't be a stretch to say the Charleswas mixed up in it too...just sayin'.
> 
> Of course, to make this work, you would also have to believe that Tom Hanks was also named which is a lot harder to buy into.


Not interested in conspiracy theories but saw some things that seemed interesting.

First I like to follow the health ranger for health advice so I read one of his non-health articles with interest.

https://thedailycoin.org/2019/02/25/signed-executive-orders-reveal-trump-is-planning-mass-arrests-military-tribunals-for-deep-state-traitors-like-comey-clinton-and-obama-update/

It seems PDJT may be using the current coronavirus scare as a distraction to keep people safe and indoors. He might have learned about this in 2017 from none other than Dr. Fauci himself, who said “there is no doubt DJT will be confronted with a surprise infectious disease outbreak during his presidency”.

https://www.healio.com/infectious-disease/emerging-diseases/news/online/%7B85a3f9c0-ed0a-4be8-9ca2-8854b2be7d13%7D/fauci-no-doubt-trump-will-face-surprise-infectious-disease-outbreak

We just learned that the good doctor loves Hilliarity.

https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1241468836882284544

There may be a shutdown of the internet in the very near future. Interesting that today the government is launching “a critical new national asset into orbit for secure communications.”

https://twitter.com/US_SpaceCom/status/1242855983338016768

Another interesting thing is that something may be up during April 1st through 10th.

https://twitter.com/txphotonski/status/1242824304259145728

Trump yesterday mentioned that there may be large Easter gatherings this year. Only way that would be possible is that the first article has to be legit.

https://twitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1242539013677989890

And some celebrities with questionable links are going absolute nuts.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1240868438115078154

https://twitter.com/i/status/1241035131554615298

Disclaimer: All of the above can be considered pure bull but it makes a nice story (at least for me).


----------



## ulua808

Forgot to mention that he would be keeping another of his campaign promises.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

This on top of everything else could be a concern.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

vhab49_PE said:


> They are mainly supplying first responders and hospitals.  The Army Corps bought 4 gallons (for now) for when the river starts to flood here in the next week or two. &lt;-- when that happens it is going to be a real shit show around here.


Im still not seeing how that's taking advantage of the situation... that's filling a gap in the supply chain...


----------



## Road Guy

My friend had a brilliant idea for more TP!


----------



## ruggercsc

How about this one (Aliens are leaving because of the Coronavirus).

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/247516/20200223/coronavirus-covid-19-is-making-aliens-leave-planet-earth-says-ufo-hunter.htm


----------



## ulua808

It would be ludicrous to think that there may have been a larger number of deaths than what the Chinese reported. Some article mentioned that since 21 million cell phone accounts were recently closed in China, the actual number of deaths may be higher. Well, I got news for them. Most of the older generation in China do not use cell phones so I would say 21 million people just no longer thought a phone was necessary. \sarc

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-closing-of-21-million-cell-phone-accounts-in-china-may-suggest-a-high-ccp-virus-death-toll_3281291.html


----------



## Road Guy

Since most of us are data junkies - thought this breakdown was interesting - For the State of Colorado - Id like to see this for the whole US but its hard to find (post it if you find it)- but Its interesting how even as the # of positive cases decline for older people, the hospitalization rate and death rates are much higher, this also looks like it the 30-50 year olds who are spreading it..

&amp; CO has a lot of very fit 50 year olds, I dont think this data is going to be the same from my home state of GA, where smoking and obesity are pretty rampant...


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Maine isn't really testing folks unless you're in an at-risk group. My best friend has "suspicious symptoms" and was told to self-isolate as they won't test her since she's an otherwise healthy 37yo.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## Road Guy

I dug out an old AM/FM radio thinking that hearing some normal radio music with some talking mixed in would help add some normalcy to working in the basement - but all they talk about on break is corona!  and most all the commercials are corona related


----------



## aog

Data for Indiana pulled from the numbers reported on IN.gov.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Master slacker

jean15paul_PE said:


> This on top of everything else could be a concern.
> 
> View attachment 16947


They’ve been saying that since Katrina!  Oh noes!  Let’s panic!!11!!1!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

Agree no hurricanes -
April is going to be flying spiders
May - zombie elephants
June - the moon disappears
July - Rocky Mountains begin to withdraw back into the earth 
August - aliens


----------



## NikR_PE

Road Guy said:


> August - aliens


This wont happen because of this



ruggercsc said:


> How about this one (Aliens are leaving because of the Coronavirus).
> 
> https://www.techtimes.com/articles/247516/20200223/coronavirus-covid-19-is-making-aliens-leave-planet-earth-says-ufo-hunter.htm


----------



## Road Guy

Seen in Hotlanta


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Seen in Hotlanta


----------



## Dleg

Worth the watch! Lol.


----------



## Road Guy

walking around the hood last night, some lady literally started screaming out her window that my wife and I should be "6 FT APART" " 6 FT APART" - jesus I think people are already going loco - cant you tell that people live together and there is no need to walk 6 ft apart?

glad I ordered them extra magazines, its almost go time!


----------



## Road Guy

You know all around the country we have some of the best and brightest students  back at their parents house- trying to do online college, playing XBOX, screwing off, watching 2 hours of Tik-Tok  videos, when maybe we could get some of them together and do shit like this:

https://www.sdsmt.edu/News/South-Dakota-Mines-3D-Prints-Masks/?fbclid=IwAR3dUggH_LbUEBfz2gRVgmZP65PcmO0fpUE_DXjAjgwez9nDJlQb-_loqKU#.Xn4UV2hKiUl


----------



## snickerd3

ugh...looks like they are going to be switch mr snick to shift work for next couple months to reduce the number of people in the lab at any given time.  Blah....that means my sleep schedule is going to be messed up too.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

A minor league hockey team is selling shirts that say "Puck the Virus" to help its employees
 

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/03/17/ahls-utica-comets-hope-puck-the-virus-shirts-raise-money-for-staff/


----------



## aog

blybrook PE said:


> Just remember to buy the essentials when you go to the store (took this shot of someone's cart last night):
> 
> View attachment 16770


This person was ahead of the curve with hoarding.  The company that makes 1 out of every 5 hasn't produced any in the last week due to lockdowns in Malaysia.

Here's the article headline and link if you're interested:

"Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer"

https://news.trust.org/item/20200327110340-jfjpz


----------



## Road Guy

laughs in vasectomy........


----------



## blybrook PE

Exactly. Best way to stay safe. Shoot blanks.


----------



## Master slacker

... or be married for more than five years...


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## frazil

NYC Health Dept: "You are your safest partner"


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

frazil said:


> NYC Health Dept: "You are your safest partner"


----------



## NikR_PE

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/glenview/ct-gla-life-church-glenview-coronavirus-tl-0402-20200327-wllyodu72vdularsjenqgyqxva-story.html%3foutputType=amp

I guess I am not leaving my home now.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## ulua808

Be careful out there. First infant casualty; investigation ongoing.

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/coronavirus-illinois-cornoavirus-cases-update-chicago-hot-spot/6057864/


----------



## txjennah PE

My parents went to visit a friend of theirs today, and my mom posted a photo of them walking far apart with the caption "social distancing!" Um, Mom, I think we need to reevaluate what social distancing is......


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

NikR_PE said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/glenview/ct-gla-life-church-glenview-coronavirus-tl-0402-20200327-wllyodu72vdularsjenqgyqxva-story.html%3foutputType=amp
> 
> I guess I am not leaving my home now.


A grocery store in PA had to throw out $ 35,000 of food because a woman coughed and sneezed on it as a joke. Claimed to have virus, did not. She was arrested.

Man in MD arrested for refusing to break up a party of 60 people.

Today's examples of Darwin was wrong.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## txjennah PE




----------



## JayKay PE

There appears to be a new testing method/apparatus by Abbot that is FDA-approved.  Gives a positive result in 5-minutes or a negative in 13-minutes.  I'm hoping this will allow a better understanding of who has it/where it is spreading/etc.

Worried about my sister in NYC.  She's the head of a call center/command center for COVID response and she's been def burning the candle at both ends.  12+ hour shifts.  At least they're letting her use her car instead of the subway since there is a nearby parking garage.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> There appears to be a new testing method/apparatus by Abbot that is FDA-approved.  Gives a positive result in 5-minutes or a negative in 13-minutes.  I'm hoping this will allow a better understanding of who has it/where it is spreading/etc.
> 
> Worried about my sister in NYC.  She's the head of a call center/command center for COVID response and she's been def burning the candle at both ends.  12+ hour shifts.  At least they're letting her use her car instead of the subway since there is a nearby parking garage.


Hope she is OK. Understand your concern. Got one brother a firefighter, another police, cousin that is a nurse (doesn't work in emergency).


----------



## frazil

I went grocery shopping over the weekend to last another 2 or so weeks.  It wasn't awful.  Not crowded like I expected, but there was also no tp or any cleaning products on the shelves.  This might be over the top but I followed this guy's procedure for washing stuff before it came in the house:

Safe Grocery shopping PSA


----------



## JayKay PE

Welp, more bad news, there is really strong evidence that covid can be spread at the aerosol level (&lt;5 ug).  Supposedly a bunch of choirs are getting sick in the LA area, no symptoms going in, but singing...does involve aerosol spread, not coughing/spitting, per se.  

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

I just wish we all understood more about what exactly this is.  Hospital next door has a confirmed 50% positive infected rate of all the healthcare workers.

@Platypus Engineer thanks.  I hope things work out for your family.  It's the support staff that are now beginning to suffer (not taking anything away from the healthcare workers).  There is so little they can do to really help without being in the trenches and so they push too much to help.  I'm just ultra worried because this is the first time I've been really separated from my immediate family (over 13 hours away), and this is not helping.


----------



## jeb6294

Still don’t think the media isn’t blowing things out of proportion?


----------



## Road Guy

I think one of the things about the churches, even if you have it and are not "looking sick yet" you can still spread it - Fauci said the risk is anytime you are with anyone who has it for more than 15 minutes - So walking down the grocery store aisle next to someone with it you are likely fine unless they cough in your face - but if you are in the same room with someone for an hour, they are going to wipe their nose, touch doorknobs, etc

My parents were still going to choir right up to last weekend (weekend before last) I had to give them the gloomy dying alone speech from my wifes work to scare them into not going  &amp; guess what, there choir director tested positive late last week


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; I know that "artist" think they have some role to offer people, but did anyone else watch these shows with Garth Brooks and Elton John? Holy crap were those disappointing!


----------



## FLBuff PE

frazil said:


> I went grocery shopping over the weekend to last another 2 or so weeks.  It wasn't awful.  Not crowded like I expected, but there was also no tp or any cleaning products on the shelves.  This might be over the top but I followed this guy's procedure for washing stuff before it came in the house:
> 
> Safe Grocery shopping PSA


I went yesterday. The kids wanted to go with me, but the wife and I put our foot down on that. It was a lot calmer yesterday than last Saturday, but there were no cleaning products or tp at our store either. We also did the wipe down of groceries before putting them away. It was my wife's suggestion, and she said "This might be extreme", but I cut her off and said "What's the worst that will happen as a result of doing this? We don't get sick? It takes us a little longer to put away groceries?" The benefits of it far outweigh the costs.

I scored a three pack of disinfecting wipes at Walmart last week! There were two three-packs, but I only took one, cuz I'm not a hoarder.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

FLBuff PE said:


> We also did the wipe down of groceries before putting them away. It was my wife's suggestion, and she said "This might be extreme", but I cut her off and said "What's the worst that will happen as a result of doing this? We don't get sick? It takes us a little longer to put away groceries?" The benefits of it far outweigh the costs.






frazil said:


> I went grocery shopping over the weekend to last another 2 or so weeks.  It wasn't awful.  Not crowded like I expected, but there was also no tp or any cleaning products on the shelves.  This might be over the top but I followed this guy's procedure for washing stuff before it came in the house:
> 
> Safe Grocery shopping PSA


Interestingly, it looks like the FDA and WA DOH don't feel like it's necessary to wipe down groceries.

https://mynorthwest.com/1795551/wa-department-of-health-disinfecting-groceries/

As for me...I think I'll continue to do so (following the advice of @frazil's link), since to me it seems like not taking any chances is the smarter move.


----------



## ulua808

Chinese face mask quality control.

View attachment E14EC56B-821B-453E-912F-84F85C7A40BA.MP4


----------



## Ble_PE

Well, I hope he got his wish. RIP Joe Diffie.


----------



## MA_PE

Road Guy said:


> &amp; I know that "artist" think they have some role to offer people, but did anyone else watch these shows with Garth Brooks and Elton John? Holy crap were those disappointing!


It’s was just ok.   Got a chuckle about Elton’s comparison with the aids epidemic.  It was pretty clear what activities spread hiv/aids (it took recognizing it was in the bodily fluids to stop the spread through medical procedures). But all typical people needed to do was stop swapping bodily fluids with strangers.  This thing you really need a space suit to avoid some contamination method.  I just watched fraz’s link above.   I went shopping last Friday and did not decontaminate anything before I put it away in the frig, freezer, cabinets, etc.  I told my wife we’re gonna die.  At least I bought some nice steaks for the last meal.


----------



## JayKay PE

@Ble_PE I'm hoping they fulfill his wish...


----------



## FLBuff PE

MA_PE said:


> It’s was just ok.   Got a chuckle about Elton’s comparison with the aids epidemic.  It was pretty clear what activities spread hiv/aids (it took recognizing it was in the bodily fluids to stop the spread through medical procedures). But all typical people needed to do was stop swapping bodily fluids with strangers.  This thing you really need a space suit to avoid some contamination method.  I just watched fraz’s link above.   I went shopping last Friday and did not decontaminate anything before I put it away in the frig, freezer, cabinets, etc.  I told my wife we’re gonna die.  At least I bought some nice steaks for the last meal.


----------



## JayKay PE

Well...things just got worse/interesting.  Someone my age (mid-30s) who I went to high school with is a confirmed case in Suffolk County, NY.  She doesn't have any symptoms yet, but she was tested on 3/28 and the results came out today as positive.


----------



## thekzieg

How did she get tested if she isn't showing symptoms??


----------



## Road Guy

Not sure about the states nationwide, but in Colorado more people in their 30's are testing positive than people in their 40's.  +1 for Gen X

Also it appears the Karens from nextdoor have been deputized! https://www.outtherecolorado.com/increase-of-colorado-police-impersonators-connected-to-virus/?utm_source=Master&amp;utm_campaign=147e947e89-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_08_08_02_49_COPY_01&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_term=0_b88b5f678d-147e947e89-163568445


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

thekzieg said:


> How did she get tested if she isn't showing symptoms??


Willingness to test people outside of the original criteria seems to vary by individual location based on how many test are available and how many people are trying to get tested. At first New Orleans hosiptials would only test people with symptoms + fever. Then the drive through testing center opened here and they would test anyone with symptoms + fever OR anyone with a note from their doctor saying then should be tested. Now they are testing anyone who wants a test, no symptoms or note required.


----------



## JayKay PE

thekzieg said:


> How did she get tested if she isn't showing symptoms??


Being located in the NY/Long Island area, and being a police officer (I think) might have helped her get tested.  I think the hot spot area in NY is allowing people to be tested if there is probable cause of them being in contact with a positive covid case?


----------



## Dleg

jean15paul_PE said:


> Willingness to test people outside of the original criteria seems to vary by individual location based on how many test are available and how many people are trying to get tested. At first New Orleans hosiptials would only test people with symptoms + fever. Then the drive through testing center opened here and they would test anyone with symptoms + fever OR anyone with a note from their doctor saying then should be tested. Now they are testing anyone who wants a test, no symptoms or note required.


We need a new Archer meme: "You want COVID-19? Because that's how you get COVID-19"


----------



## Road Guy

Made a end of day grocery store run- stores seems to be back to normal for everything except TP and eggs...


----------



## Supe

Dleg said:


> We need a new Archer meme: "You want COVID-19? Because that's how you get COVID-19"


Here you go!


----------



## mudpuppy

jean15paul_PE said:


> Willingness to test people outside of the original criteria seems to vary by individual location based on how many test are available and how many people are trying to get tested. At first New Orleans hosiptials would only test people with symptoms + fever. Then the drive through testing center opened here and they would test anyone with symptoms + fever OR anyone with a note from their doctor saying then should be tested. Now they are testing anyone who wants a test, no symptoms or note required.




And it's just the opposite around here--even though Michigan has 50% more cases than Louisiana, doctor's prescription or not, we can only get a test in my county if (1) showing symptoms, *AND *(2) have had exposure to someone who tested positive and/or traveled out of the country, *AND* (3) are high-risk (over 60, diabetic, lung disease, etc.)  We only have 24 confirmed cases in my county, but who knows how many cases we actually have since they are hardly testing anyone.


----------



## snickerd3

mudpuppy said:


> And it's just the opposite around here--even though Michigan has 50% more cases than Louisiana, doctor's prescription or not, we can only get a test in my county if (1) showing symptoms, *AND *(2) have had exposure to someone who tested positive and/or traveled out of the country, *AND* (3) are high-risk (over 60, diabetic, lung disease, etc.)  We only have 24 confirmed cases in my county, but who knows how many cases we actually have since they are hardly testing anyone.


this is how our county is operating too.


----------



## snickerd3

OMG these 2 extra hours a day from not commuting are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!   I am able to get so much more stuff done in the house...actually make nice dinners...get to relax before bedtime...

I don't think I could handle it 100% of the time forever, but a couple days a week working from home during normal times would be AMAZING.   I think I might tackle shampooing the carpets this evening.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> OMG these 2 extra hours a day from not commuting are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!   I am able to get so much more stuff done in the house...actually make nice dinners...get to relax before bedtime...
> 
> I don't think I could handle it 100% of the time forever, but a couple days a week working from home during normal times would be AMAZING.   I think I might tackle shampooing the carpets this evening.


Not missing commute either. Before this there times I told my boss I would be working from home if there was something I really needed to concentrate on. Fortress of Solitude is needed sometimes.


----------



## frazil

snickerd3 said:


> OMG these 2 extra hours a day from not commuting are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!   I am able to get so much more stuff done in the house...actually make nice dinners...get to relax before bedtime...
> 
> I don't think I could handle it 100% of the time forever, but a couple days a week working from home during normal times would be AMAZING.   I think I might tackle shampooing the carpets this evening.


I want to keep doing this forever!  I love not commuting.  Of course I should probably start being productive if I want a chance at that.


----------



## Master slacker

I'm just about over working from home.  Can't stay focused and I feel limited when I can't readily see and talk with my group.  I need to go in to work a few times each week.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

snickerd3 said:


> OMG these 2 extra hours a day from not commuting are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!   I am able to get so much more stuff done in the house...actually make nice dinners...get to relax before bedtime...
> 
> I don't think I could handle it 100% of the time forever, but a couple days a week working from home during normal times would be AMAZING.   I think I might tackle shampooing the carpets this evening.


The removal of my 8 minute commute does not offset the time spent breaking up fights between the kids.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Master slacker said:


> I'm just about over working from home.  Can't stay focused and I feel limited when I can't readily see and talk with my group.  I need to go in to work a few times each week.


Same. I just need something new to look at. Doesn't help that my home office is where I have been studying also, so I am DONE with this room right now.


----------



## Master slacker

vhab49_PE said:


> The removal of my 8 minute commute does not offset the time spent breaking up fights between the kids.






vhab49_PE said:


> Same. I just need something new to look at.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!  Are you me?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

I just got my "get out of jail" letter saying I can travel for work if needed since I work for a utility.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

vhab49_PE said:


> The removal of my 8 minute commute does not offset the time spent breaking up fights between the kids.


This but dog.



vhab49_PE said:


> Same. I just need something new to look at. Doesn't help that my home office is where I have been studying also, so I am DONE with this room right now.


This too. Thankfully we replaced the desk after the test. Because I fucking hated that desk so At least the desk is better. And I changed the curtains.



Platypus Engineer said:


> I just got my "get out of jail" letter saying I can travel for work if needed since I work for a utility.


Boyfriend has one of those. He left it at home today and is on site at a start up in another state...


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Master slacker said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!  Are you me?


MAYBE?!?


----------



## Road Guy

I heard someone talking about this on the radio - but I guess if you have a "smart thermometer" it send your data to these people so they can make this map?  They said they are seeing a trend downward in the number of fevers (but also said they still expect cases to keep going up)

https://healthweather.us/


----------



## ulua808

Don’t think some Chinese will ever starve. Eew...

View attachment DE907E5F-972B-4E1E-ADA1-5C7773D9A8C6.MP4


----------



## leggo PE

Let's be sensitive of the cuisines of cultures other than our own, everyone! Thank you!


----------



## mudpuppy

leggo PE said:


> Let's be sensitive of the cuisines of cultures other than our own, everyone! Thank you!




Which reminds me of this:  The Deerfield, MI Testicle Festival has been delayed due to Coronavirus.

https://wcrz.com/did-you-know-that-theres-a-testicle-festival-in-michigan-and-yes-its-canceled/

Its not too far from here, but I've never been.  Might have to check it out next year.


----------



## MA_PE

ulua808 said:


> Don’t think some Chinese will ever starve. Eew...
> 
> View attachment 17049


That is just nasty.


----------



## Road Guy

Ive got an old army friend who spent a ton of time in the whole South China Sea area and they just eat some F'd up shit over there, based on the pics he sends from the "markets" over there I  am really surprised we haven't had this happen a few hundred times already..


----------



## Road Guy

but....


----------



## ulua808

Chinese PPE. All for a flu-like illness. 

View attachment 07A9925E-C075-4D60-843D-8F64C4CD62CE.MP4


----------



## P-E

MA_PE said:


> That is just nasty.


Why did I click on that?


----------



## Dean Agnostic

ulua808 said:


> Don’t think some Chinese will ever starve. Eew...
> 
> View attachment 17049


I see no blood splatter when he took the first bite, he probably boiled and baked it.


----------



## MA_PE

ulua808 said:


> Chinese PPE. All for a flu-like illness.
> 
> 07A9925E-C075-4D60-843D-8F64C4CD62CE.MP4 2.15 MB · 0 downloads


And once all of it is on, it’s disposed of. Wonder why we can’t keep up with ppe


----------



## MA_PE

Dean Agnostic said:


> I see no blood splatter when he took the first bite, he probably boiled and baked it.


And your point would be??


----------



## mudpuppy

MA_PE said:


> And your point would be??




Boiled &amp; baked rat head is tastier than raw rat head!  This should be in the Cooking thread.


----------



## JayKay PE

MA_PE said:


> And your point would be??


I mean...people eat a lot of different things throughout the world?  As long as it's dead and/or cooked, I really see nothing wrong with this.

It's when things are eaten still alive that I get...*shudders*  That's just masochistic and cruel to the animal.


----------



## mudpuppy

JayKay PE said:


> I mean...people eat a lot of different things throughout the world?  As long as it's dead and/or cooked, I really see nothing wrong with this.
> 
> It's when things are eaten still alive that I get...*shudders*  That's just masochistic and cruel to the animal.


The video ends prematurely, which leaves so much to the imagination.  Does he swallow the rat head?  What happened to the skull--does that just add crunch?  Is it safe to swallow a rat skull?  It seems like that would tear up your insides.  And what about the fur?

I really find it hard to believe there is anywhere in the world where eating whole rat heads for nutrition is a thing.  I suspect this a dare or a shock video or a rite of passage or something.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

mudpuppy said:


> I really find it hard to believe there is anywhere in the world where eating whole rat heads for nutrition is a thing.  I suspect this a dare or a shock video or a rite of passage or something.


Like eating tide pods?


----------



## Road Guy

new rule - no more rat eating videos...


----------



## JayKay PE

mudpuppy said:


> The video ends prematurely, which leaves so much to the imagination.  Does he swallow the rat head?  What happened to the skull--does that just add crunch?  Is it safe to swallow a rat skull?  It seems like that would tear up your insides.  And what about the fur?
> 
> I really find it hard to believe there is anywhere in the world where eating whole rat heads for nutrition is a thing.  I suspect this a dare or a shock video or a rite of passage or something.


Tbh, the way he's eating it def seems more sensationalized/like something a kid would do that normal eating.  I mean, I remember chasing my cousin's around the table with the fish head and eyeballs when I was little, but my uncles and everyone else just ate it like it was normal food/didn't make a big deal of it (FYI: fish eyeball + the cheek are delicious together).

As for eating a skull and fur...I mean, I think our body could survive it?  We're omnivores, so maybe?  Idk, I feel like I've swallowed chicken bones before when my mom made chicken soup?  The bones get kinda brittle after boiling and when you separate the meat from bone, sometimes the snap and you end up with bone in your soup by mistake?


----------



## JayKay PE

But back on the the rona:

Older co-worker, who said this was all a hoax/made up by the Dems is suddenly taking this very seriously and wanting gloves/masks, is concerned because the hospital won't give us masks (because, you know, the health care workers need it more), and got kinda pissy when I said in response to him, "But, didn't you say two weeks ago that this was all going to blow over?"


----------



## JayKay PE

...trrrrrrriple post


----------



## Road Guy

We are not normally much of conspiracy theorist but we now turn our phones off when we leave the house, even for "essential" travel and shopping - I think everyone in "shut down" areas is being tracked to see how much everyone is staying put or not..


----------



## Supe

Road Guy said:


> We are not normally much of conspiracy theorist but we now turn our phones off when we leave the house, even for "essential" travel and shopping - I think everyone in "shut down" areas is being tracked to see how much everyone is staying put or not..


That makes me want to take a wagon full of phones, like that guy who f'd up traffic with one, and start bringing it to all the places I want them to shut down.


----------



## csb

Dleg said:


> View attachment 16997


Oh man. I don't want to go to Reno.


----------



## Road Guy

but they have craps tables in Reno?


----------



## Master slacker

Yep.  No TP


----------



## Road Guy

https://matadornetwork.com/read/cell-phone-data-reveals-americans-staying-home-ones-arent/?fbclid=IwAR0ilAk-wq53uq1xxccGRgbctvsnK48mswgtlruMwZgW4RD34gi3a4TxoOM

@csb 



> On the other end of the spectrum, Wyoming is doing the worst in the nation at staying home.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> new rule - no more rat eating videos...


I second that nomination


----------



## csb

We've got some hypotheses about that one:

1. Some people live in towns without things like grocery stores, so they are driving 15-40 miles to go shop and get back home. 

2. A lot of people also commute from those small towns into bigger towns to work. Douglas to Casper and Douglas to Gillette come to mind. 

3. We have no stay-at-home mandate. It's a conservative state, so a good portion of the population is still operating under the "this is a liberal hoax" mindset.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Wimbledon canceled. First non war time cancellation ever


----------



## Road Guy

Reading further down the article it does state that larger, less populated states have to generally drive further than other places so I pulled  a "Fake News" and just posted the "headline"

I dont know how CO is green - I went into the office yesterday morning and I-25 was fairly full.

&amp; just in a general political sense I think its sort of funny how the 60's era "liberals" were very much into *F* the government man! And today's counterparts are like "We must do everything the government tells us to do"!  (not getting political just an observation I find sort of funny)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

C_oo_l article. 

I've love to see it broken down by county.


----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## blybrook PE

And the triple


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

blybrook PE said:


> View attachment 17060


The neighbor kid and my daughter have walkie talkies. I'm sure they will sit "together" and read books? Probably not really talk except the occasional, hey, I finished a chapter.


----------



## BamaStrucPESE

csb said:


> We've got some hypotheses about that one:
> 
> 1. Some people live in towns without things like grocery stores, so they are driving 15-40 miles to go shop and get back home.
> 
> 2. A lot of people also commute from those small towns into bigger towns to work. Douglas to Casper and Douglas to Gillette come to mind.
> 
> 3. We have no stay-at-home mandate. It's a conservative state, so a good portion of the population is still operating under the "this is a liberal hoax" mindset.


Wyoming also has a population density of 6/sq mi. They can get out of the house and practice social distancing.


----------



## jeb6294

Platypus Engineer said:


> Wimbledon canceled. First non war time cancellation ever


Tucker Barnhart (Cincinnati Reds catcher) has been on the news talking about getting the season started in empty stadiums so people could at least have something to watch on TV.  I'd be all for it, although they'd have to be super-vigilant because any illness would go through a clubhouse in a hurry.  Wonder if that means my security side gig at the ballpark would start up too?


----------



## Master slacker




----------



## Road Guy

he prolly sends multiple people out to get his food, weed, and other "essentials" though..


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Why doe this feel like in school when the whole class got punished because nobody would violate the Code of the Schoolyard to rat out the offender ?


----------



## frazil

Picture just taken out my front window:




The wildlife is taking over!!


----------



## blybrook PE

I see breakfast, second breakfast, lunch, mid afternoon snack and dinner there for the next few weeks!

Travel restrictions be damn'd I'm gonna fill the freezer!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## JayKay PE

Found out last night someone from my graduating class died from covid.  There is at least 5 other people from high school, that I know of, that are sick from this (positive test result) who are either quarantining in-place or at the hospital.  Getting ultra worried about all my friends and family over in NYC/LI area...


----------



## MA_PE

JayKay PE said:


> Found out last night someone from my graduating class died from covid.  There is at least 5 other people from high school, that I know of, that are sick from this (positive test result) who are either quarantining in-place or at the hospital.  Getting ultra worried about all my friends and family over in NYC/LI area...


Wow.  So sorry to hear this.  Did they all still see each other or just a lot of covid activity in the area?  I hope this thing gets under control soon.  It’s got to be tough for you to be so far away from family, however under the rules you couldn’t go see them in-person anyway.  Thank god for the video chat service options. Stay strong.


----------



## Supe

frazil said:


> The wildlife is taking over!!


We hadn't mowed our grass in two weeks, so between the empty streets and overgrowth, I told my wife it was starting to look like Pripyat already.


----------



## JayKay PE

MA_PE said:


> Wow.  So sorry to hear this.  Did they all still see each other or just a lot of covid activity in the area?  I hope this thing gets under control soon.  It’s got to be tough for you to be so far away from family, however under the rules you couldn’t go see them in-person anyway.  Thank god for the video chat service options. Stay strong.


These are all separate cases.  Long Island is just really hit hard due to its proximity to NYC, the higher than usual % of the population being elderly, and the fact that...it's an island, so you can only social distance so much on an island where over 3 million people live...This obviously isn't using Queens or Brooklyn in that number.

True, I couldn't see them in-person but, idk, I just feel like my hear would be easier knowing they were at least closer physically?  It's a weird feeling.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

My mother's work is considered essential by Gov. Baker so she gets to keep driving from NH to MA every day. 

My 84yo Gram lives with my mother. 

They are doing ok, Mother is apparently stripping down &amp; showering when she gets home - likely not in the basement but upstairs in her bedroom (but my mothers room is such a mess that my gram doesn't go in there) but I'm hoping Gram doesn't handle Mother's clothes.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

VT is trying to restrict what Big Box Stores can sell right now. Stating that they can only sell "essentials" (food &amp; pharmacy) and all other aisles need to be blocked off or items removed from shelves. non-essentials being clothes, sporting goods, crafts, etc. 

I went to college in central VT. Our only option for school supplies (besides on campus) was Walmart. Kids are at home so blocking off crafts &amp; office supplies is fecking stupid.


----------



## JayKay PE

More updates from my sister: NYC/LI guidance is now saying patients in cardiac arrest should not be transported to the hospital if they cannot be saved in the field, and paramedics must withhold CPR due to it forcing vapors into the air during the process.

Fuck.


----------



## snickerd3

that's some draconian measures right there


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> VT is trying to restrict what Big Box Stores can sell right now. Stating that they can only sell "essentials" (food &amp; pharmacy) and all other aisles need to be blocked off or items removed from shelves. non-essentials being clothes, sporting goods, crafts, etc.
> 
> I went to college in central VT. Our only option for school supplies (besides on campus) was Walmart. Kids are at home so blocking off crafts &amp; office supplies is fecking stupid.


Plus they talk about mental health, so no craft supplies means lack of diversions. My brother's kids are bored out of their mind right now.

plus the closest store to me with office supplies is a walmart, part of MD stay home allows travel to pick up materials for work from home.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> More updates from my sister: NYC/LI guidance is now saying patients in cardiac arrest should not be transported to the hospital if they cannot be saved in the field, and paramedics must withhold CPR due to it forcing vapors into the air during the process.
> 
> Fuck.


WOW


----------



## Master slacker

JayKay PE said:


> More updates from my sister: NYC/LI guidance is now saying patients in cardiac arrest should not be transported to the hospital if they cannot be saved in the field, and paramedics must withhold CPR due to it forcing vapors into the air during the process.
> 
> Fuck.


That's some straight up bullshit right there.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Sunrise in Myrtle Beach SC (from a conference a few years ago):


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

frazil said:


> Picture just taken out my front window:
> 
> View attachment 17066
> 
> 
> The wildlife is taking over!!


Looks like my 'hood.


----------



## ruggercsc

JayKay PE said:


> More updates from my sister: NYC/LI guidance is now saying patients in cardiac arrest should not be transported to the hospital if they cannot be saved in the field, and paramedics must withhold CPR due to it forcing vapors into the air during the process.
> 
> Fuck. Golly


Fixt.  Reminds me of June Cleaver translating "Jive" on Airplane.


----------



## csb

BamaStrucPESE said:


> Wyoming also has a population density of 6/sq mi. They can get out of the house and practice social distancing.


----------



## Road Guy

Sounds cruel but most patients who have to continue to receive CPR once they are in the hospital may live - but most dont really have a great QOL afterwards, part of the problem in all this is that our medical professionals in the US are actually too good at keeping people alive.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Sounds cruel but most patients who have to continue to receive CPR once they are in the hospital may live - but most dont really have a great QOL afterwards, part of the problem in all this is that our medical professionals in the US are actually too good at keeping people alive.


that is likely true. heard that was one of the issues with treating Iraq/Afghanistan veterans, injuries that were previously fatal now not. Literally didnt know what to do.


----------



## csb

Just got an ad on here for my own pulse-ox meter from a company called Banggood. 

1. Bro, I'm so asthmatic I already own one. 

2. Heh.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dean Agnostic

MA_PE said:


> And your point would be??


Just an observation my friend.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

leggo PE said:


> Let's be sensitive of the cuisines of cultures other than our own, everyone! Thank you!


Good Call mod!


----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> Just got an ad on here for my own pulse-ox meter from a company called Banggoodwell.
> 
> 1. Bro, I'm so asthmatic I already own one.
> 
> 2. Heh.


fix'd.  Can't abide bad grammar in my ads.


----------



## Master slacker

I called around to two authorized vendors of a handgun I want to buy and both said they're out and don't know when they'll get more in stock.


----------



## Road Guy

Try the pawn shops?


----------



## Master slacker

Nah.  I highly doubt they'd have the particular one i'd want.  Besides, I wanted to take the boys with me.  And if we went to a pawn shop, we wouldn't be able to leave until they walk out with a couple of janky weedeaters or lawn mowers.


----------



## Road Guy

my daughter, 18, has some money burning a hole in her pocket and has been trying to find a semi automatic rifle but they are also sold out (except for the very expensive models)

I feel good about my stockpile of buckshot ammo to be honest.


----------



## Road Guy

Email from my kids school - “Good news we won’t be raising tuition next year”

My reply- “you can raise the tuition if you let me send him back to school”


----------



## Exengineer

Alice Cooper said it best: "School's out forever!".  Fantastic.


----------



## Road Guy

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

If you go by each of the larger countries on the list on the left and then look at the confirmed cases graph on the right, there really isn't any country that is "flattening" the curve, except China - Does anyone think they are really not shamming the numbers?

Italy's looks like it might be a little  "less steep"


----------



## wilheldp_PE

Master slacker said:


> I called around to two authorized vendors of a handgun I want to buy and both said they're out and don't know when they'll get more in stock.






Road Guy said:


> my daughter, 18, has some money burning a hole in her pocket and has been trying to find a semi automatic rifle but they are also sold out (except for the very expensive models)
> 
> I feel good about my stockpile of buckshot ammo to be honest.


I was at my local gun store the other day (not shopping...inquiring about an NFA transfer), but that is, by far, the emptiest I have ever seen the shelves and walls of that store.  The cases and gun racks on the walls were, at best, 25% full where normally they are completely packed and replenished as soon as anybody buys something.  And all the employees looked very tired.  Apparently guns and ammo are being bought at the same rate as toilet paper and eggs.


----------



## P-E




----------



## Road Guy

So apparently China opened the wet markets up again? Gee what could go wrong? I mean I know they’ve been doing this forever but let’s at least bury the dead....


----------



## MA_PE

Big news in Boston is that the Kraft family wa able to send the Patriots plane to China and bring back 1million+ n95 masks.  I guess the organization was able to break through the political carp and arrange the shipment.  Kraft then sent 300k of the masks to NY to help the jets and giants fans........


----------



## Road Guy

If you get your hands on some send em west- they are asking the wife to re use her n95 for up to 5 days - “cleaning” through some BS IV light at night...

Fucking CDC keeps lowering the standards to keep osha I guess from shutting the hospitals down...

- sorry, drinking


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## ruggercsc

MA_PE said:


> Kraft then sent 300k of the masks to NY to help the jets and giants fans........


The Krafts are trying to place nice and make friends with NY Jets fans so they don't run up the score against them.


----------



## Supe

Road Guy said:


> I feel good about my stockpile of buckshot ammo to be honest.


I can't find buckshot ANYWHERE.  Only some overpriced slugs.  All I have is a single box of hot waterfowl loads (heh).  Granted, I only keep it for home defense, so that's good enough.

I went to Cabela's right before things really went south looking for ammo.  The place was wiped out.  What I did learn is that you need a large caliber hunting rifle (like a 6.5 Creedmoor) and a large caliber handgun (.357/.44 mag) to survive the apocalypse, since nobody buys those.

When all the craziness calms down, I think I will start rounding out the collection with the last four guns I want:

1) Either a Walther PPQ or CZ P10 9mm for personal carry

2) A .357 mag revolver, preferably a Ruger Redhawk, but will see what deals I come across at some point.  I'd kill for a nickel finish Colt Python with a 6" barrel because my dad had one, but they are going for nearly FOUR GRAND.

3) An AR carbine - I have a full size DCM match rifle, but really want a shorty with a red dot for plinking fun. 

4) Savage Model 10 GRS - I'm really torn between .308 and 6.5 Creedmor here, but I don't think I would shoot enough to justify sacrificing all the good of the 6.5 Creedmor for the fact that the .308 is cheaper to shoot.  That's probably one where I'd consider reloading ammo for accuracy anyways.  Really good optics would be a must here (I still remember the first time looking through Swarovski glass, but good lord is that stuff expensive.)


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Morning.

View attachment 17147


Sunset Blue Marsh Lake just north of Reading PA.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Supe

I'll eat half the neighborhood before I lay a finger on a dog!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 17148


LOL @ "VERY short loin"


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Supe said:


> I'll eat half the neighborhood before I lay a finger on a dog!


But which half?


----------



## Supe

jean15paul_PE said:


> But which half?


The ones I can catch.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

Supe said:


> 1) Either a Walther PPQ or CZ P10 9mm for personal carry


I would recommend a Sig P365 as a carry gun.  Very compact with a high magazine capacity.


----------



## Ble_PE

Supe said:


> The ones I can catch.


Yea, but wouldn't those be too fatty?


----------



## Road Guy

In mid January I went out and loaded up on 9mm, and grabbed several  boxes of buckshot that happened to be available - we have a local store called https://www.jaxgoods.com/  its sort of like an REI / Gun Store / Army Navy Store / Hardware Store, Ranching / etc -  I have been going there in lui of Home Depot since I can get stuff like Cat Food and ammo in one trip..

But I think people "stock up " the closer you get to the "state shutdown order" cause that when our stores cleaned out of stuff like guns and ammo - glad I made some rounds in January-  I looked at getting something "fun" that shoots a 5.56 mm but decided against it


----------



## JayKay PE

Ble_PE said:


> Yea, but wouldn't those be too fatty?


Perfect for crockpot cooking?  Fat on top so it melts through while cooking.

Is this not a thing?  It's def a thing.

Also, covid-19 related: got my mask today (sewn one).  I'm just trying not to go into the hospital if I don't have to.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

My friend's mom made her a bunch of masks from a dusty rose velour party dress. My friend mailed me some.. At some point they'll be here.

I wore a buff when we went to Home Depot on Saturday but with hair &amp; glasses, it doesn't work well for me.


----------



## Supe

wilheldp_PE said:


> I would recommend a Sig P365 as a carry gun.  Very compact with a high magazine capacity.


There was something about the ergonomics of the Sig I wasn't a huge fan of.  I guess after so many years of match shooting with olympic-style rifles, I'm just super picky about grips.  I actually preferred the feel of the 320X better than the 365.  I like the more upright 1911-ish grips, and I'm really picky about where the pad of the thumb sits since I have short, wide hands.  I like the CZ a lot, and the Walther trigger is top notch, and has interchangeable backstraps, which I REALLY like.


----------



## Supe

Ble_PE said:


> Yea, but wouldn't those be too fatty?


Would you throw out pork belly in favor of bacon?


----------



## jeb6294

Supe said:


> I'll eat half the neighborhood before I lay a finger on a dog!





jean15paul_PE said:


> But which half?


Our little neighborhood is about a 50-50 mix of old people that originally lived here and whose kids are grown and out of the house and younger families who moved in as other old people moved into condos.  I think we'll be fine here....


----------



## JayKay PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> My friend's mom made her a bunch of masks from a dusty rose velour party dress. My friend mailed me some.. At some point they'll be here.
> 
> I wore a buff when we went to Home Depot on Saturday but with hair &amp; glasses, it doesn't work well for me.


Mine is black with white feather print.  Blue strings to tie.  I haven't tried it on/attempted to tie it, since I'm avoiding going into the hospital, but if I go out to a store or something I'll be wearing it.  Don't think I'll be wearing it while I attempt to go running this afternoon.



jeb6294 said:


> Our little neighborhood is about a 50-50 mix of old people that originally lived here and whose kids are grown and out of the house and younger families who moved in as other old people moved into condos.  I think we'll be fine here....


A nice variety.  Younger for a leaner cut, but older that you can just throw in the crockpot for the whole day and grab after.


----------



## Supe

I'm just glad we're all in agreement, that the dogs are to be saved, and neighbors to be eaten.


----------



## Road Guy

Yes we are Americans!  We dont eat the dogs..

&lt;&lt;Not being racist to the fucktards that do eat dogs, but fuck them just the same&gt;&gt;

Our stores are mostly back to normal, eggs are full again, meat was about half full,  people here are still too good to eat chicken leq quarters apparently, cause those are full.

Main aisle that is empty other than TP is the pasta aisle - &amp; here I thought Denver was too good for gluten?


----------



## Ble_PE

I went to Costco late last week and it was well stocked save for toilet paper and cleaning products, e.g. lysol wipes, hand soap, etc. They were also restricting the number of people they let in the store at one time as well, so that was nice.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

I went Friday afternoon. Beef, bacon and butter areas were fairly. empty. Guess dont have to worry about heart disease if world is ending. 

Paper aisle empty.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Ble_PE said:


> I went to Costco late last week and it was well stocked save for toilet paper and cleaning products, e.g. lysol wipes, hand soap, etc. They were also restricting the number of people they let in the store at one time as well, so that was nice.


Limiting number of people is good, but walmart near me it is groups of 3 or 4 people shopping together. Block aisles, walk so you cant get around them. I think it should be one person per family and no kids.


----------



## ulua808

When Hawaii has problems, we find that there are “the usual suspects”. Depending on the type of issue, we can break it down by race, religion, living condition (specifically homeless), etc.

I was just surprised by what I was viewing and reading yesterday; things are different in Hawaii so we don’t have the same issues as on the mainland.

I came across a video on twitter where African Americans still appear to defy social distancing rules. So I started reading some news articles:

NBC10 Philly: “ Data on who is getting affected with the novel coronavirus and their racial demographics  is limited right now. Early results in Philadelphia however indicate a higher rate of contraction and death among African-Americans.”

Propublica: “Early data shows African Americans have contracted and died of coronavirus at an alarming rate ... Black people are being infected and dying at alarming rates. Here’s what Milwaukee is doing about it - and why governments need to start releasing data on the race of Covid-19 patients.”

Propublica: ”In Michigan where the state’s population is 14% black, African Americans made up 35% of cases and 40% of deaths as of Friday morning. Detroit, where a majority of residents are black, has emerged as a hotspot with a high death toll. As has New Orleans. Louisiana has not published case breakdowns by race, but 40% of the state’s death have happened in Orleans Parish, where the majority of residents are black.”

Propublica: “Illinois and North Carolina are two of the few areas publishing statistics on Covid-19 cases by race, and their data shows a disproportionate number of African-Americans were affected.”

NYT: “Days after a funeral in a Georgia town, coronavirus hit like a bomb ... Ninety percent of the people who died were African-American.”

wbez.org: “ In Chicago, 70% of COVID-19 deaths are black.”

It seems a lot of deaths can be prevented - by outreach.


----------



## JayKay PE

Ble_PE said:


> I went to Costco late last week and it was well stocked save for toilet paper and cleaning products, e.g. lysol wipes, hand soap, etc. They were also restricting the number of people they let in the store at one time as well, so that was nice.


Costcos near me are fairly well-stocked.  It was weird looking up to see all the upper shelves empty of literally everything, but the floor was pretty full.  It was weird the things that people were buying in bulk, but we still have restrictions on how much you can buy of one thing.  I did buy produce/fruit from there...I think produce is suffering at Costco because people aren't buying.  I did see crates of rotting fruit and the bag of mandarins I purchased did have a couple rotten in the middle (but I assumed that risk when buying fruit/produce during this weird time).  I try to go shopping in the middle of the week, like Wednesday, to avoid people.  Went shopping last week and grabbed a thing of toilet paper for a co-worker.  Going to see if I can get through another week with what I've got in my fridge/cabinets.  

I'm just being lazy and not cooking anything.  I'm so drained coming back due to the higher level of stress at the facility.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

JayKay PE said:


> Mine is black with white feather print.  Blue strings to tie.  I haven't tried it on/attempted to tie it, since I'm avoiding going into the hospital, but if I go out to a store or something I'll be wearing it.  Don't think I'll be wearing it while I attempt to go running this afternoon.


We've seen a few people walking with masks on - usually older folks (50s-mid 60s).  And an older man "cycling" with a washcloth as a mask...

I have a friend in Raleigh who regularly runs with a buff around her neck, rarely pulled up unless it's actual winter. And she got so much side eye on her run this weekend for *not* having it up. And so she starting pulling it up when she approached people. 

I get running with a buff up. I don't do it even when it's -10F. But she said there were folks with masks and to me, that just seems silly to wear the mask when you're working out. Since I've seen an article about the likelihood of getting it when running/walking by someone while exercise is low. Plus a lot of people don't know how to put on a mask without contaminating it (same with gloves) so idk


----------



## Road Guy

The nextdoor Karen's have already started Mask Shaming those not wearing masks - If I go for a run or bike ride I am not wearing a masks - I just believe that's dumb -

But I am seriously just not going to any stores on the weekends as I saw some weird shit this weekend on my one trip to Safeway (cause there Spinach Dip is +1)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

ulua808 said:


> When Hawaii has problems, we find that there are “the usual suspects”. Depending on the type of issue, we can break it down by race, religion, living condition (specifically homeless), etc.
> 
> I was just surprised by what I was viewing and reading yesterday; things are different in Hawaii so we don’t have the same issues as on the mainland.
> 
> I came across a video on twitter where African Americans still appear to defy social distancing rules. So I started reading some news articles:
> 
> NBC10 Philly: “ Data on who is getting affected with the novel coronavirus and their racial demographics  is limited right now. Early results in Philadelphia however indicate a higher rate of contraction and death among African-Americans.”
> 
> Propublica: “Early data shows African Americans have contracted and died of coronavirus at an alarming rate ... Black people are being infected and dying at alarming rates. Here’s what Milwaukee is doing about it - and why governments need to start releasing data on the race of Covid-19 patients.”
> 
> Propublica: ”In Michigan where the state’s population is 14% black, African Americans made up 35% of cases and 40% of deaths as of Friday morning. Detroit, where a majority of residents are black, has emerged as a hotspot with a high death toll. As has New Orleans. Louisiana has not published case breakdowns by race, but 40% of the state’s death have happened in Orleans Parish, where the majority of residents are black.”
> 
> Propublica: “Illinois and North Carolina are two of the few areas publishing statistics on Covid-19 cases by race, and their data shows a disproportionate number of African-Americans were affected.”
> 
> NYT: “Days after a funeral in a Georgia town, coronavirus hit like a bomb ... Ninety percent of the people who died were African-American.”
> 
> wbez.org: “ In Chicago, 70% of COVID-19 deaths are black.”
> 
> It seems a lot of deaths can be prevented - by outreach.


There seems to be some bias in the conclusions being drawn by your post. Or a least a severe lack of awareness.

First this...
(sorry, I seem to have lost the source of this quote)



> So while everyone can get COVID, this is having different impacts on poorer people who live in high population dense areas.
> Some families live 5 people in 3 rooms and can not distance at home. They must move through small public hallways to get from their unit to the street to shop for food in smalls corner stores.
> Inner cities have great challenges to stop the spread.


And second this...
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/825730141/the-coronavirus-doesnt-discriminate-but-u-s-health-care-showing-familiar-biases
 



> In one analysis, it appears doctors may be less likely to refer African Americans for testing when they show up for care with signs of infection.
> 
> Delays in diagnosis and treatment can be harmful, especially for racial or ethnic minority groups that have higher rates of certain diseases, such as diabetes, high blood pressure and kidney disease. Those chronic illnesses can lead to more severe cases of COVID-19.
> 
> In Memphis, a heat map shows where coronavirus testing is taking place. It reveals that most screening is happening in the predominantly white and well-off suburbs, not the majority black, lower-income neighborhoods.


----------



## Road Guy

In the end its really about this statement "_Those chronic illnesse__s can lead to more severe cases of COVID-19_."

Most Chronic diseases are curable / preventable by not eating a bunch of shit and a strong exercise program - and frankly "my people" /  southerners (White / Black) are terrible at both of those.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> In the end its really about this statement "_Those chronic illnesse__s can lead to more severe cases of COVID-19_."
> 
> Most Chronic diseases are curable / preventable by not eating a bunch of shit and a strong exercise program - and frankly "my people" /  southerners (White / Black) are terrible at both of those.


I 100% agree, but that is significantly harder to do for poor people. "Shit" is cheap and easily accessible. Quality food is expensive and difficult to find in poor areas. It's amazing the percentage of poor black people who live in food deserts



> A food desert is an area that has limited access to affordable and nutritious food, in contrast with an area with higher access to supermarkets or vegetable shops with fresh foods, which is called a food oasis. The designation considers the type and quality of food available to the population, in addition to the accessibility of the food through the size and proximity of the food stores.
> 
> In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5 million Americans live in "food deserts", meaning that they live more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.
> 
> Food deserts tend to be inhabited by low-income residents with reduced mobility, this makes them a less attractive market for large supermarket chains. Food deserts lack suppliers of fresh foods, such as meats, fruits, and vegetables. Instead, the available foods are often processed and high in sugar and fats, which are known contributors to the United States' obesity epidemic.


----------



## ulua808

jean15paul_PE said:


> There seems to be some bias in the conclusions being drawn by your post. Or a least a severe lack of awareness.


True. As I said, I don’t know the situation on the mainland but it seems if you can get people to be aware of social distancing, you can reduce the severity of the problem. I just based it off of one video where some people were brushing off police asking them to disperse and they were arguing and trying to get in the face of the police.

In Hawaii, there are some homes (actually many) with 5 or 6 *families* under one roof, or two or three generations. Many of them (at least the ones I know) are using masks (like bandanas) when in the house and trying to practice distancing as best they can. They are also practicing disinfecting. So far, we haven’t heard of any of these homes getting affected in the news.

There is just one case where the son passed it on to his mother.


----------



## Road Guy

Poor is Poor, I've got plenty of relatives in South Georgia whose diet isn't any better because they live in the white version of the projects - And its not because they dont live near a whole foods, its because fried foods are f'n delicious! and most bad diets are soda based, you dont get to be 100 lbs overweight without drinking calories - Sugar will kill more people than corona, cars and guns combined this year but that shit will keep getting inhaled - 

I think the data when this is all said and done will be high casualties in areas where smoking is very prevalent and chronic diseases due lack of exercise and drinking calories exist.

I saw an old dude in the grocery store parking lot take off his homemade mask to smoke a cigarette and i was like dude, why are you even trying? But thanks for at least trying to not breathe on the rest of us.

and full disclosure I smoked while in the military, its been a long as time since I have enjoyed the delicious taste of a camel cigarette, but I am hoping that 10 years separating allows for some lung healing, if not. I just hope they wifey can keep my home morphine drip high


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jean15paul_PE said:


> I 100% agree, but that is significantly harder to do for poor people. "Shit" is cheap and easily accessible. Quality food is expensive and difficult to find in poor areas. It's amazing the percentage of poor black people who live in food deserts






Road Guy said:


> In the end its really about this statement "_Those chronic illnesse__s can lead to more severe cases of COVID-19_."
> 
> Most Chronic diseases are curable / preventable by not eating a bunch of shit and a strong exercise program - and frankly "my people" /  southerners (White / Black) are terrible at both of those.


There is truth in what both of you have said. I used to travel for work a lot, been in parts of major cities that are not on any tourist map. Nothing but convenience stores and fast food.  If yuo are low income or on public assistance will buy food that lasts predominantly frozen but those are high in sodium.

And Walmart pulled out of building two stores in DC because of red tape and community activism. Some of the people who  claim to be advocates for disadvantaged are often  the biggest problems. Plus the two biggest grocery stores in DC area are unionized, while Walmart isn't. You can get fresh food at Walmart. Not everyone can afford Whole Foods or Trader Joes.


----------



## Road Guy

true - I did a project through I-20 - West side of Atlanta and at the Project Information Meeting everyone came just to bitch about no grocery stores in the area, I was like Sir I am just adding an "HOV" Lane to the Interstate?


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Poor is Poor, I've got plenty of relatives in South Georgia whose diet isn't any better because they live in the white version of the projects - And its not because they dont live near a whole foods, its because fried foods are f'n delicious! and most bad diets are soda based, you dont get to be 100 lbs overweight without drinking calories - Sugar will kill more people than corona, cars and guns combined this year but that shit will keep getting inhaled -
> 
> I think the data when this is all said and done will be high casualties in areas where smoking is very prevalent and chronic diseases due lack of exercise and drinking calories exist.
> 
> I saw an old dude in the grocery store parking lot take off his homemade mask to smoke a cigarette and i was like dude, why are you even trying? But thanks for at least trying to not breathe on the rest of us.
> 
> and full disclosure I smoked while in the military, its been a long as time since I have enjoyed the delicious taste of a camel cigarette, but I am hoping that 10 years separating allows for some lung healing, if not. I just hope they wifey can keep my home morphine drip high


Oh I agree 100%. Nothing that I said is limited to African Americans. I only mention race because the original post I responded to did.

It's very common for the majorities in society to put disenfranchised people (racial minorities, poor people , women, immigrants, LGBTQ, etc) in fucked up situations, and them blame them for experiencing bad outcomes. Just trying to combat that tendency.

But I digress


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

kevo_55 said:


>


It is funny, but in all honesty, I've seen nothing but civility on this forum during the course of the discussion.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Something lighter...


----------



## Road Guy

southpaw too!


----------



## Road Guy

jean15paul_PE said:


> Oh I agree 100%. Nothing that I said is limited to African Americans. I only mention race because the original post I responded to did.
> 
> It's very common for the majorities in society to put disenfranchised people (racial minorities, poor people , women, immigrants, LGBTQ, etc) in fucked up situations, and them blame them for experiencing bad outcomes. Just trying to combat that tendency.
> 
> But I digress


yeah I agree - I didnt care for the original post that brought it up - but I just know that most Americans consider themselves healthy if they dont have diabetes *yet.     And that is all races.  Maybe the news narrative will shift that this is killing people with chronic disease, and that can be "cured" for the most part.

As a case study, I also think its interesting that the wifes grandparents lived in very rural south GA, farmed 1000 acres, no access to anything other than what they grew for the most part - and the lived to be a very healthy 90 (each of them) whereas their relatives ( sisters, cousins, etc) growing up in the same town but not "farming" lived very unhealthy lives, worked shit jobs at the Blue Bird Bus Factory (that 90% of us rode to school on) and died in their 60's and a few made it to their 70's for the most part.  And the 90 year olds ate a shit ton of "gluten", carbs, etc - but didn't drink or smoke and probably didn't eat as much sugar as today's people.  But they did eat sugar, just didnt inhale it if that makes sense..

So dumb question Rauci said today that he thinks half of us have it and are asymptomatic - Do you think he means that half us us already have it, and do not show symptoms and never will or just haven't shown symptoms "yet" ?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> southpaw too!


The follow-thru was textbook. LOL


----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> yeah I agree - I didnt care for the original post that brought it up - but I just know that most Americans consider themselves healthy if they dont have diabetes *yet.     And that is all races.  Maybe the news narrative will shift that this is killing people with chronic disease, and that can be "cured" for the most part.
> 
> As a case study, I also think its interesting that the wifes grandparents lived in very rural south GA, farmed 1000 acres, no access to anything other than what they grew for the most part - and the lived to be a very healthy 90 (each of them) whereas their relatives ( sisters, cousins, etc) growing up in the same town but not "farming" lived very unhealthy lives, worked shit jobs at the Blue Bird Bus Factory (that 90% of us rode to school on) and died in their 60's and a few made it to their 70's for the most part.  And the 90 year olds ate a shit ton of "gluten", carbs, etc - but didn't drink or smoke and probably didn't eat as much sugar as today's people.  But they did eat sugar, just didnt inhale it if that makes sense..
> 
> So dumb question Rauci said today that he thinks half of us have it and are asymptomatic - Do you think he means that half us us already have it, and do not show symptoms and never will or just haven't shown symptoms "yet" ?


Honestly I do not know. I stopped watching the daily briefings because it seemed like sometimes they were just throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick.


----------



## jeb6294

I've seen teasers pop up on FB/news websites/etc. implying that it's actually been in the US since last year...usually along the lines of "Were the Sniffles You Had in December Really Corona?"

Never clicked on any of the links though so no idea what the rationale is.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> I've seen teasers pop up on FB/news websites/etc. implying that it's actually been in the US since last year...usually along the lines of "Were the Sniffles You Had in December Really Corona?"
> 
> Never clicked on any of the links though so no idea what the rationale is.


I saw a article recently where someone from the NFL or Florida State government ( I don't remember) claimedit was circulating at Super Bowl in Miami in February.


----------



## Road Guy

So I think they are going to small towns, like Telluride, Co and testing everyone to come up with this % of who has it and is not showing symptoms - best I can tell thats what caused this late weekend decision to encourage wearing cloth masks - 

maybe its like the Walking Dead where we all already have it?

I was on a call with a guy from the office who was pretty sick early march, it wasnt the flu, they thought he just had pneumonia, but the called and asked him to come get tested - not sure if it "shows up" in your system if you have already have it or what, but he was kind of freaked out about it since he has felt "great" the last 3 weeks..


----------



## Master slacker

Day 2 of furlough.  Not too bad.  Just the whole not-getting-paid thing sucks


----------



## Platypus Engineer

@roadguy That is my concern, there seems to no real idea how it spreads. Not even talking about stopping it.

I am trying to do my part but frankly some it seems luck of draw. I buy 10-14 days of food now just to minimize my trips out not to hoard. I only buy what I normally do.

Other people not helping. I went to a park Sunday morning for a walk which is allowed, I went early to avoid people. Three people walking side by side, blocking entire trail, one had no interest in controlling the dog he was walking. Then were the bicyclists riding single file so close their tires were practically touching, then stopped on bridge and spread out.


----------



## JayKay PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> @roadguy That is my concern, there seems to no real idea how it spreads. Not even talking about stopping it.
> 
> I am trying to do my part but frankly some it seems luck of draw. I buy 10-14 days of food now just to minimize my trips out not to hoard. I only buy what I normally do.
> 
> Other people not helping. I went to a park Sunday morning for a walk which is allowed, I went early to avoid people. Three people walking side by side, blocking entire trail, one had no interest in controlling the dog he was walking. Then were the bicyclists riding single file so close their tires were practically touching, then stopped on bridge and spread out.


Ditto on the food.  I've been trying to buy two weeks worth of food and then going from there, but it's hard with produce (I eat a lot of veggies and they go quickly).  Obviously more frozen veg are needed in my diet.

As for going to the park...it's the same here, with people flocking to parks.  I've actually had better luck social distancing while walking in my neighborhood.  I'm able to cross the street, or make a wide 'half circle' into the actual street itself to avoid people, and I have seen others doing it as well.  That's my plan to do for the rest of the time since I can't do gym and I feel awkward working out in my apartment, since I'm the top floor.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

JayKay PE said:


> Ditto on the food.  I've been trying to buy two weeks worth of food and then going from there, but it's hard with produce (I eat a lot of veggies and they go quickly).  Obviously more frozen veg are needed in my diet.


Frozen veggies when you get the mixed varieties did not favors to my grocery budget the end of March. I'm also a volume eater and my salads are in a 9c pyrex bowl... 

If/when boyfriend restarts the hydrophonics (again), we'll have a boatload of lettuce. he's got a timeline to clean it up tho since I need one of the shelves for my starter seeds.

I think I'm gonna skip the grocery store this weekend as a challenge to use some pantry things. like the lentils. i wish i had grabbed curry paste when I was out last weekend...


----------



## Violator




----------



## csb




----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

csb said:


> View attachment 17185


“Cheby Shev.”

...I don’t get it.


----------



## Roarbark

ChebyshevII PE said:


> “Cheby Shev.”
> 
> ...I don’t get it.


dammit, so close.


----------



## Road Guy

Mikey Mikey?


----------



## Ble_PE

Road Guy said:


> Mikey Mikey?


and the drunky bunch!


----------



## JayKay PE

Roarbark said:


> ChebyshevII PE said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Cheby Shev.”
> 
> ...I don’t get it.
> 
> 
> 
> dammit, so close.
Click to expand...

You don't know @ChebyshevII PE's real name?  He told everyone but you?  I thought everyone knew their name was: Chebs Luxingburg Shev the Second.


----------



## Road Guy

How would this make you feel if you were working 14 hour days dealing with this horse shit virus and to read this from the CDC?  

Spoiler alert - If you (CDC, every hospital manager out there, etc) dont give a shit about them they are not really going to be breaking their backs to come back to work... At least I know several who are going to be like, yeah fever still high....


----------



## blybrook PE

That’s some serious BS right there. 
 

As a former firefighter, I really respect all of the first responders. I know the kind of crap they’re putting up with. 
 

If nothing else, in keeping with the wfh situation &amp; limiting public excursions, I’m attempting to reduce their workload.


----------



## Road Guy

Its a roller coaster for all of them, but there own management made a comment regarding two techs who tested positive" that "well, they could have gotten it anywhere." No Karen, they work 14 hour days at this shit-hole that is full of infected people..

We are also staying home more than a few weeks ago - I just want to punch people when I go out


----------



## Road Guy

well I was going to spend my lunch hour calling in some OSHA violations are the hospitals but apparently they and the CDC is in cahoots with this..

https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/nurses-reuse-decontamination-masks-endangers-health-care-workers?fbclid=IwAR2EH0o4QXPZA81SVzY9jYK3tjkAkgT2T5B0oimZt6X41xJarjsb2ZI3eLc


----------



## thekzieg

Of course they’re in cahoots. The only thing anyone cares about in this f’ing country is making sure the stock market is happy so the obscenely wealthy stay that way.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

thekzieg said:


> Of course they’re in cahoots. The only thing anyone cares about in this f’ing country is making sure the stock market is happy so the obscenely wealthy stay that way.


i like you


----------



## Road Guy

I think masks and other gear are being hoarded because the CDC's modeler fucked up the first model predicting a million deaths and came up with this strategy to re use gear


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> well I was going to spend my lunch hour calling in some OSHA violations are the hospitals but apparently they and the CDC is in cahoots with this..
> 
> https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/nurses-reuse-decontamination-masks-endangers-health-care-workers?fbclid=IwAR2EH0o4QXPZA81SVzY9jYK3tjkAkgT2T5B0oimZt6X41xJarjsb2ZI3eLc


Disclaimer... I didn't read the article 

But I don't think anyone (CDC, OSHA, nurses, hospital administration) wants to be reusing masks, but if there aren't enough, then I guess you're forced to choose between bad options. This whole situation sucks.


----------



## Road Guy

I bet if the hospitals stopped taking patients until they got what they needed someone would shit some up real quick...

Its not like you would be allowed to keep excavating a deep trench just because there wasn't any more trench boxes available, you would stop work.  OSHA should be about protecting the workers and not the patients.

&amp; I do care about the 20+ years of foregone overpriced vacations that I have put in my 401K and I am not obscenely wealthy (not even poorly wealthy), I care more about my wife's health than I do money, but I value my wife's life more than I do anyone in her hospital bed.


----------



## thekzieg

Road Guy said:


> I bet if the hospitals stopped taking patients until they got what they needed someone would shit some up real quick...
> 
> Its not like you would be allowed to keep excavating a deep trench just because there wasn't any more trench boxes available, you would stop work.  OSHA should be about protecting the workers and not the patients.
> 
> &amp; I do care about the 20+ years of foregone overpriced vacations that I have put in my 401K and I am not obscenely wealthy (not even poorly wealthy), I care more about my wife's health than I do money, but I value my wife's life more than I do anyone in her hospital bed.


I should have said all anyone in office cares about...there are lots of good, decent people in this country. It just seems like very few of them are ever in charge of making decisions for the rest of us.


----------



## Road Guy

I am a little edgy, when the wife doesn't sleep for 24 hours for some reason that makes me not sleep for 24 hours   - 

I dont know how we can let 10's of millions go on unemployment (if not more) at some point that will generate its own set of health issues and deaths. Our Governor was on TV just saying he would keep stuff closed as long as he felt he needed to, I mean "come on man"  

I am hoping that maybe they (whoever the F that is) has some data to more accurately predict staffing of hospitals, beds, equipment needed, etc - I mean I heard there are only like 20 people on that Navy Ship that is in NY and 3 in  NO? (just what I heard on the local rock radio station).

Lots of my wifes work friends are the primary bread winner, and many would like to quit but they cant because there spouses are either slow on work or not working - its F'd up.


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> I am hoping that maybe they (whoever the F that is) has some data to more accurately predict staffing of hospitals, beds, equipment needed, etc - I mean I heard there are only like 20 people on that Navy Ship that is in NY and 3 in  NO? (just what I heard on the local rock radio station).


The whole ship thing is jacked. They set up that giant convention center and had the ship brought in and then kept changing their minds about which one should be for regular sick people and which one should be for COVID-19 sick people.


----------



## Road Guy

It had to be confusing, I cant imagine how many different hospital networks are in NY? - Some Hospital Manager gets a phone call, your boat is here, where do you want it?  ugh put it out back?

I did like the set up I saw they rapidly converted a hospital parking garage to beds - I wonder if that was a planned for thing built into the original parking deck design?  Be cool if it was!


----------



## Violator




----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

I'm seeing banners around town and on the news that say "We got this!" and I'm not exactly sure what they mean.  It seems grammatically suspect at best.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Audi driver said:


> I'm seeing banners around town and on the news that say "We got this!" and I'm not exactly sure what they mean.


They're probably trying to announce they have the virus, and warning people to stay away.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

ChebyshevII PE said:


> They're probably trying to announce they have the virus, and warning people to stay away.


It's quite the rallying cry.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

My college friend lost his mom last night to Covid. The hospital let him suit up and be with her in her final moments.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Just like Hurricane Katrina, response to this is a complete and utter failure at all levels of government.


----------



## ruggercsc

Platypus Engineer said:


> Just like Hurricane Katrina, response to this is a complete and utter failure at all levels of government.


Depends on which source you get your news: 


Democratic Hoax

greatest response by a President in History to a crisis

Nancy Pelosi's fault

Obama's fault

like ordering Chinese Food

Left wing conspiracy to take out this presidential administration

Complete failure by current administration

*The* greatest failure by a leader in history to take action to protect their citizens

Caused by 5G networks

Virus escaped Chinese Lab

US Military released virus

UN Conspiracy to reduce the population

Bilderberg Group conspiracy

Tri-Lateral Committee Conspiracy

Virus escaped from the basement of Comet Ping Pong Pizza

Virus released by Vince Foster and Seth Rich murderers

Attempt by some potential engineers to get more study time by canceling the April 2020 Exams


----------



## Road Guy

The main thing they have in common is a great exaggeration by the media of the number of deaths..

But if you look at the John Hopkins Global Tracking Map, there really isn't anyone flattening the curve, except for China (nothing suspect there!)  https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Also its probably buried way down on page 23 of google but there is some great footage of the mayor of New York telling everyone not to worry and to take the subway, come to Broadway, etc. Same for the Mayor of New Orleans telling everyone to come to Mardi Gras....

Ill offer a prediction when this is done that the US will have the highest number of Recovered patients per capita, and not for anything the government has or hasnt done ,but because of the individuals who work in "real healthcare" who are used to dealing with this type of BS on a regular basis...


----------



## P-E




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

I really put this here for my own reference later, but this site has a nifty link to see where each state is in terms of reaching the "peak"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/07/825479416/new-yorks-coronavirus-deaths-may-level-off-soon-when-might-your-state-s-peak#allstates

For example me living in CO the peak was last week, but the peak for Florida isnt till almost May.. have a feeling I wont be making that late June Florida trip to see the family..

I know its creepy but the data of all this intrigues the hell out of me.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> The main thing they have in common is a great exaggeration by the media of the number of deaths..
> 
> But if you look at the John Hopkins Global Tracking Map, there really isn't anyone flattening the curve, except for China (nothing suspect there!)  https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
> 
> Also its probably buried way down on page 23 of google but there is some great footage of the mayor of New York telling everyone not to worry and to take the subway, come to Broadway, etc. Same for the Mayor of New Orleans telling everyone to come to Mardi Gras....
> 
> Ill offer a prediction when this is done that the US will have the highest number of Recovered patients per capita, and not for anything the government has or hasnt done ,but because of the individuals who work in "real healthcare" who are used to dealing with this type of BS on a regular basis...


To be fair (no idea of the New York stuff), but New Orleans and Mardi Gras was well before there was any sense of an outbreak in the US. And she was following the advice that the CDC was giving at that time.

The virus was almost certainly here but no one knew at the time.


----------



## Master slacker

I'm so tired of hearing about this stupid virus.  I don't watch the news, but I'm still inundated with it.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Master slacker said:


> I'm so tired of hearing about this stupid virus.  I don't watch the news, but I'm still inundated with it.


It's basically the only thing going on in the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Orchid PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> It's basically the only thing going on in the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Or so our government would have us think.

It's probably just a huge cover up for something else that is going on.


----------



## JayKay PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Or so our government would have us think.
> 
> It's probably just a huge cover up for something else that is going on.


Pffffft, we all know about the new "The Bachelor" singing competition.  What else is there?


----------



## Road Guy

something about the government having to replace the batteries in the pigeons?


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> something about the government having to replace the batteries in the pigeons?


Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, not everyone knows about that.

My best guess is that the US is sending a small shuttle of colonists to colonize the moon station (located on dark side). They probably don't want too many people knowing about it, and with everyone staying inside at home nobody will see the shuttle launch. Again, my best guess as to the purpose of the colony is to create a sort of "seed vault," but for humans. These individuals will be used either to repopulate the earth after an apocalypse, or to populate a separate planet in the event earth is no more.

I said "best guess" a few times, however I may have come across transcripts of a correspondence taking place among a few powerful leaders describing the plans in detail. I cannot discuss how I came across the correspondence.


----------



## Exengineer

I don't know why someone like Bill Gates is given so much credibility on this pandemic.  He became rich from developing software and should stick to that.  Being rich does not make a person an automatic expert on the environment, pandemics and vaccines, etc.  I suspect he is just a talking head for those who have an agenda, most notably the World Health Organization which he has poured money into.  Gates is also known to be in favor of eugenics and population control (reduction) so his beliefs should be opposed by the vast majority.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> located on dark side


Dark side of the moon is not dark at all.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Exengineer said:


> I don't know why someone like Bill Gates is given so much credibility on this pandemic.  He became rich from developing software and should stick to that.  Being rich does not make a person an automatic expert on the environment, pandemics and vaccines, etc.  I suspect he is just a talking head for those who have an agenda, most notably the World Health Organization which he has poured money into.  Gates is also known to be in favor of eugenics and population control (reduction) so his beliefs should be opposed by the vast majority.
> 
> View attachment 17242


The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does some amazing charity work. Infectious disease is their biggest area of work. And Bill Gates has dedicated his life to the work of this charity, leaving Microsoft's board to work with the charity full time. He's super intelligent and a problem solver. He serves as the visionary strategist for the organization, and has a huge staff of experts doing the work. So yeah, I think he has something to contribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah,  but he can take his digital body implant and shove it! 

-----

A question for you engineers - The Wife is trying to figure out how to keep her glasses on, but not on her ears all day - I was thinking of using a sunglasses holder that we could rig to be tighter than normal?  Apparently wearing a mask, face shield, scrub cap, puts a lot of pressure on the ears after 12+ hours - anyone got any ideas?   There whole unit is having "ear fatigue"

I think they want to be able to wear glasses but just have them not sit on the ears if that makes sense?


----------



## JayKay PE

@Road Guy, I know they're been using the piece of plastic thingy to hold the ties on the masks here?  I can't remember what it's called, but it literally looks like a piece of zip tie plastic/thicker with ridges, that you loop your ties around.  Maybe use that in combination with the sunglasses/reading glasses holder?


----------



## Supe

I don't know about not having them sit on your ears, but they make vertical silicon tips that slide on that help distribute the load so it's not in the same pressure point/contact spot.  They are shaped sort of like a gun trigger and follow the contour of your ear.

For the mask, consider sewing a button on each side of a headband/hairband.  You can then hook the elastic to to the button instead of behind the ears.  This can be as simple as a strap of fabric with a button on each side that is held in place by the mask elastic.  That one can also fit under a scrub cap.


----------



## Road Guy

so she is sewing buttons on the skull cap for the masks - but maybe there is a way to use them to also hold the glasses on to that button (or sew something else onto the skull cap that she could use a twist tie or similar for the glasses?

They are getting some of the old "federal supply" n95 masks but apparently they have a little visor on them so it might change that set up a bit - she is supposed to be bringing one home today (non contaminated   ) - but I like the idea of hanging something on the skull cap (as I call it) that the glasses can rest on


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Yeah,  but he can take his digital body implant and shove it!
> 
> -----
> 
> A question for you engineers - The Wife is trying to figure out how to keep her glasses on, but not on her ears all day - I was thinking of using a sunglasses holder that we could rig to be tighter than normal?  Apparently wearing a mask, face shield, scrub cap, puts a lot of pressure on the ears after 12+ hours - anyone got any ideas?   There whole unit is having "ear fatigue"
> 
> I think they want to be able to wear glasses but just have them not sit on the ears if that makes sense?


This is popular with some nurses I know... Using buttons on a headband instead of your ears
Edit: oh, just saw your last message. Looks like you've seen this one.


----------



## Supe

Does she have pretty straight frames?  You can probably cut up one of those slip on eyeglass holders with the silicone ends and use some elastic to hold it to a button.  If its not straight, it will probably tilt the glasses forward though.


----------



## snickerd3

@Road Guy How about this...it is one of the hair bands I cut and pinned as quick thing...the pink would sit on top the head.  it held up my glasses from behind my ears


----------



## thekzieg

Maybe something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Eyeglasses-Sunglasses-Anti-Slip-Silicone-Headband/dp/B00VFSXTF4?th=1


----------



## snickerd3

^ i've tried those...they are more for keeping the glasses on the nose.  It actually hurt my ears more because it pulled down on the backs of the glasses.  but depending on how big the openings are, if flipped the other way and slid up to the straight part to sit higher on the head it might work.


----------



## jeb6294

Just have her call Oakley and see if they’ll hook her up with some prescription lenses.


----------



## P-E

How about a monocle?


----------



## csb

Take the stems off, run wire through the screw holes to make loops, then use elastic to bungee it to her head. It's going to look like those small child sunglasses. 

https://www.amazon.com/Baby-Banz-Ultimate-Polarized-Sunglasses/dp/B002SW3EUG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550841482&amp;sr=8-7&amp;keywords=baby+banz+sunglasses&amp;linkCode=ll1&amp;tag=familyvacationcritic-20&amp;linkId=9b0035c1c34f0265f780308836ba2ae5&amp;language=en_US


----------



## csb

In case you are missing the office noises: https://imisstheoffice.eu/

You can click the various items to turn them on. It seems to be missing a close talker, but it does the trick.


----------



## FLBuff PE

csb said:


> In case you are missing the office noises: https://imisstheoffice.eu/
> 
> You can click the various items to turn them on. It seems to be missing a close talker, but it does the trick.


Does it include clipping finger nails guy/girl?


----------



## csb

FLBuff PE said:


> Does it include clipping finger nails guy/girl?


I could hear my husband clipping his nails yesterday and I thought, "Is it less gross because we're not in the office?"


----------



## Road Guy

csb said:


> Take the stems off, run wire through the screw holes to make loops, then use elastic to bungee it to her head. It's going to look like those small child sunglasses.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Baby-Banz-Ultimate-Polarized-Sunglasses/dp/B002SW3EUG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550841482&amp;sr=8-7&amp;keywords=baby+banz+sunglasses&amp;linkCode=ll1&amp;tag=familyvacationcritic-20&amp;linkId=9b0035c1c34f0265f780308836ba2ae5&amp;language=en_US


I'll have to get her to look at these, I dont recall how her glasses are set up - she said she already has too much stuff "on top of her head" to strap it from the top.  She did order some prescription safety glasses and she is probably going to ditch the face shield once those come and were hoping those will be one less thing "on her head"


----------



## ruggercsc

csb said:


> In case you are missing the office noises: https://imisstheoffice.eu/
> 
> You can click the various items to turn them on. It seems to be missing a close talker, but it does the trick.


At home I can rip one out without trying to be quiet and not caring about the stench (I work in an open office and am at least semi-considerate when it comes to the smell, so I go to another "neighborhood" and let it loose).  The dogs could care less about the sound and the smell, but one dog will tilt his head while he looks at me if it is really loud, but he can't complain about the smell because his are a lot worse.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

FLBuff PE said:


> Does it include clipping finger nails guy/girl?


one of my coworkers does this weekly. clips multiple nails at their desk... WHY


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

FLBuff PE said:


> Does it include clipping finger nails guy/girl?






LyceeFruit PE said:


> one of my coworkers does this weekly. clips multiple nails at their desk... WHY


Is clipping nails while sitting on the toilet at work any better? asking for a friend


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> Is clipping nails while sitting on the toilet at work any better? asking for a friend


Like, miles better.


----------



## NikR_PE

LyceeFruit PE said:


> one of my coworkers does this weekly. clips multiple nails at their desk... WHY


i used to hear my boss do that in his office every Monday afternoon.


----------



## Road Guy

I kind of miss going over and smacking that dude upside the head when he would clank his metal spoon against the glass bowl during his early lunch...


----------



## ruggercsc

I wonder what the refrigerators will be like when we get back.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Is clipping nails while sitting on the toilet at work any better? asking for a friend


I'd rather that since even tho we have stalls in our bathroom, it's usually only 1 person at a time.



NikR_PE said:


> i used to hear my boss do that in his office every Monday afternoon.


In his office is a little better than our open floor plan. And she does it at least once a week, just a couple of nails.


----------



## ruggercsc

I just ran out of staples and now I can't swipe from the office supplies at work, so I will have to swipe them from my wife's stapler.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

I think ive put staples in my work stapler twice in 9 years. Yes, ive had the same stapler the whole time.


----------



## youngmotivatedengineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I think ive put staples in my work stapler twice in 9 years. Yes, ive had the same stapler the whole time.


A few weeks ago I ran out of the package of staples for the first time ever. I thought they were auto refill because they never seem to run out


----------



## ruggercsc

I have a classic Gray (sorry Milton) Steel Swingline 747 that weighs a ton.  I have had it since 1993 and it is stamped _Made in the USA _.  I also have a black swingline 711 in the drawer, which is a compact stapler.  My wife has a gray Swingline model 545 that is a plastic piece of crap.  I am sure I acquired the latter two when I switched jobs as a *Going Away present *and gave her the crappiest one I had.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

youngmotivatedengineer said:


> A few weeks ago I ran out of the package of staples for the first time ever. I thought they were auto refill because they never seem to run out


They dont. We have like 18 boxes of 5000 staples and its just "why are you ordering staples when they come wi the stapler?!"


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

ruggercsc said:


> I have a classic Gray (sorry Milton) Steel Swingline 747 that weighs a ton.  I have had it since 1993 and it is stamped _Made in the USA _.  I also have a black swingline 711 in the drawer, which is a compact stapler.  My wife has a gray Swingline model 545 that is a plastic piece of crap.  I am sure I acquired the latter two when I switched jobs as a *Going Away present *and gave her the crappiest one I had.


I have a white swingline, only one. And when I relocated within my company, you betcha I took my stapler with me


----------



## ruggercsc

We have "shared" supplies like staplers now.  They had to lock up our supply room because stuff started disappearing.  You have to put in order and one the Administrative Assistants willd bring it to you.  I am sure there is master list somewhere.  I wonder if the cases of hand sanitizer, Toilet Paper, and Lysol wipes are still there.

As far as staples go, I remember seeing a box about ten years ago in one of our drawers next to a Windows 98 CD and charger for Motorola cell phone.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

I miss Vista


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> (sorry Milton)


People weren't meant to sit in cubicles.

Some of Office Space never made sense to me until my current job.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> People weren't meant to sit in cubicles.
> 
> Some of Office Space never made sense to me until my current job.


Idk how you changed the quote but @ruggercsc apologized to Milton, not me lol

I miss being in the field more. Thankfully, I'm back on a client that lets me do site visits. I just gotta fly or drive to rural PA or OH lol


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Idk how you changed the quote but @ruggercsc apologized to Milton, not me lol
> 
> I miss being in the field more. Thankfully, I'm back on a client that lets me do site visits. I just gotta fly or drive to rural PA or OH lol


My bad I don't either.

i miss field (75 % at least) too, but I got to point where the physical drain was too much. I could do still mental part.  Almost 10 years and still not used to primarily office.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> My bad I don't either.
> 
> i miss field (75 % at least) too, but I got to point where the physical drain was too much. I could do still mental part.  Almost 10 years and still not used to primarily office.


I've got a guy on my team who won't go on a site visits. And I'm just like "welp, i'll go then!"  I typically have dibs anyway as the most senior and the one who jumpstarts every project we have


----------



## Road Guy

You know who else missed there senior year in 1984?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> You know who else missed there senior year in 1984?
> 
> View attachment 17280


Nice, Not even the most ridiculous 80s movie starring Patrick Swayze. I would go with Youngblood


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> You know who else missed there senior year in 1984?
> 
> View attachment 17280


Never seen it. A little before my time.


----------



## Road Guy

My generation grew up dreaming of killing Russians, even the targets we had in the Army were called "Little Ivans"

But everyone should see this movie (dont waste time with the Chaing Tatum remake) nor the Footloose Remake (or really any remake)


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

ruggercsc said:


> I wonder what the refrigerators will be like when we get back.


hopefully multiplied.


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Road Guy said:


> My generation grew up dreaming of killing Russians, even the targets we had in the Army were called "Little Ivans"
> 
> But everyone should see this movie (dont waste time with the Chaing Tatum remake) nor the Footloose Remake (or really any remake)


I don't even know what movie this is.


----------



## Road Guy

Because we live here!



This will also be me if they try and make this quarantine go into the summer... I even saw a step side truck like that the other day...


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I don't even know what movie this is.


It is Red Dawn. Soviets invade US, Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen play brothers who wage a guerilla war against invaders


----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> It is Red Dawn. Soviets invade US, Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen play brothers who wage a guerilla war against invaders


Ah, thanks


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I've got a guy on my team who won't go on a site visits. And I'm just like "welp, i'll go then!"  I typically have dibs anyway as the most senior and the one who jumpstarts every project we have


Field visit for tomorrow confirmed.


----------



## Master slacker




----------



## MA_PE

I’ve never seen Red Dawn.  Might have to see if it’s on Netflix


----------



## Road Guy

unreal, so this means nothing to you?


----------



## MA_PE

Road Guy said:


> unreal, so this means nothing to you?


Correct.  It does not.


----------



## Exengineer

Apparently this current pandemic has been in the planning stages for years.  Listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci talk about it here.  It's not such a surprise now.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Definitely some shennanigans going on with this.


----------



## jeb6294

MA_PE said:


> I’ve never seen Red Dawn.  Might have to see if it’s on Netflix


:banhim:



LyceeFruit PE said:


> I don't even know what movie this is.


Ditto.... :banhim:


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

> 57 minutes ago, Exengineer said:
> 
> Apparently this current pandemic has been in the planning stages for years.  Listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci talk about it here.  It's not such a surprise now.



This is what _all_ infectious disease experts always say... _every year_.

*And they are always right.* There have been so many infectious disease outbreaks! This happens regularly. COVID-19 is just particularly bad. Here's a list from the past 20 years just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are tons I don't know about.


SARS

Swine flu

Ebola

Covid-19

Mad cow disease

H1N1

Nothing said here is surprising or unexpected.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> This is what _all_ infectious disease experts always say... _every year_.
> 
> *And they are always right.* There have been so many infectious disease outbreaks! This happens regularly. COVID-19 is just particularly bad. Here's a list from the past 20 years just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are tons I don't know about.
> 
> 
> SARS
> 
> Swine flu
> 
> Ebola
> 
> Covid-19
> 
> Mad cow disease
> 
> H1N1
> 
> Nothing said here is surprising or unexpected.


To add to this...we should be acting, thinking, and talking as if something like this could hit us by surprise at any moment. If we aren't, then we tend to grow complacent, and have an even worse problem than we otherwise would, simply because we weren't prepared.

Talking preparedness is not the same as indicating knowledge that this *specific* virus was going to appear.


----------



## Road Guy

^- I wrote a too long reply and deleted it but in general - Our household has dealt with each of those events listed above and the only one that actually freaked out the hospital staff was Ebola - not sure why so much but that was the one that I recall the most. I think &amp; rightly so, up until the US govt admitted we had a "cure" for ebola when that poor nurse got it, it freaked the fuck out of us much like this one

But this Covid has caused a massive change to the way the wife works,  she has been at this ICU in Denver for 7 years and they have never been full (24 bed ICU - so kind of small) I think a 200 total bed hospital.  Every previous Flu season wouldn't be much to write home about - and usually they would get "called off" i.e sent home more during flu season for lack of work than other times - Right now they have 29 covids in the ICU

For whatever reason the other 180 beds are pretty much empty, not sure if people are somehow magically not having strokes / heart attacks / falls / etc - 

But at this rate pretty much the entire hospital will be out of work in 2-3 weeks


----------



## ruggercsc

Our work from Home Order has been extended now to May 15th.


----------



## Road Guy

When is TN supposed to "peak"?

I was expecting FL to be much like NY but my BIL is a doc down there and said due to the age of the population they have one of the higher than normal population to hospital bed system than most states and they have pretty large / strong regional hospital presence. Or maybe they all just got scared and stayed put?


----------



## frazil

We haven't gone grocery shopping in 3 weeks so we’re down to condiments, some random blocks of cheese and a lots of canned beans. But!...while organizing the basement I found a stash of Christmas hershey kisses (from not this past Christmas) which I am now totally hoarding.


----------



## P-E

frazil said:


> We haven't gone grocery shopping in 3 weeks so we’re down to condiments, some random blocks of cheese and a lots of canned beans. But!...while organizing the basement I found a stash of Christmas hershey kisses (from not this past Christmas) which I am now totally hoarding.


Pretty much the same here.  I found a bag of jelly beans from 2019 Easter.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## ruggercsc

Road Guy said:


> When is TN supposed to "peak"?


I should have been more clear that our office work from home order is through May 15th.  When the peak is depends on which model you look at.  I have seen anywhere from April 16th to the week of May 18th.  It seems to have peaked in the big cities (Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga) but is seems to be spreading in the rural counties.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Exengineer

It is also a good thing to be prepared for a nuclear accident such as Three Mile Island or the Chernobyl event but you don't hear the experts saying "There's going to be a surprise nuclear meltdown during this Administration....."  because it would alarm people and if it really does occur then you could be rightfully accused of planning it in advance.  Of course if you announce such a thing every year the warning becomes another cry-wolf statement.  A significant nuclear event would cause far more deaths and longer term damage than any virus ever could.


----------



## Road Guy

I really believe the experts over shot their wad with this. For 20+million people out of work this is the lamest pandemic I’ve ever seen.

Hospitals are not really even prepping for a 2nd wave they are laying nurses off, cutting docs salaries, etc... and hoping they can get back to “work” like the rest of us....

The wife was seriously looking to go to NY to pick up some work - but the recruiters have told her if she can’t be there this Monday then they won’t need any extra ICU nurses if she gives a proper 2 week notice..(and no one more happy about that than me)


But there are a few fun things happening:

https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2020/04/09/colorado-brewery-drives-around-selling-beer-like-the-ice-cream-truck/


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> But there are a few fun things happening:
> 
> https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2020/04/09/colorado-brewery-drives-around-selling-beer-like-the-ice-cream-truck/


Beer truck.   Awesome!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

Think this is week 5? But same....


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> ^- I wrote a too long reply and deleted it but in general - Our household has dealt with each of those events listed above and the only one that actually freaked out the hospital staff was Ebola - not sure why so much but that was the one that I recall the most. I think &amp; rightly so, up until the US govt admitted we had a "cure" for ebola when that poor nurse got it, it freaked the fuck out of us much like this one
> 
> But this Covid has caused a massive change to the way the wife works,  she has been at this ICU in Denver for 7 years and they have never been full (24 bed ICU - so kind of small) I think a 200 total bed hospital.  Every previous Flu season wouldn't be much to write home about - and usually they would get "called off" i.e sent home more during flu season for lack of work than other times - Right now they have 29 covids in the ICU
> 
> For whatever reason the other 180 beds are pretty much empty, not sure if people are somehow magically not having strokes / heart attacks / falls / etc -
> 
> But at this rate pretty much the entire hospital will be out of work in 2-3 weeks


My cousin is a oncology nurse, and her unit has been taking COVID patients because the ICU is full, were even using cardiac care beds.


----------



## snickerd3

The private Remote oncology practice we have in town...the type that is only open a day or two per week because the Drs go to different offices in different small towns over the course of the week...the entire office and their two current local patients all tested positive 7 people total.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## LyceeFruit PE

Folks, including a state rep, from The County (Aroostook County) are heading to Augusta to protest today. That the restrictions for northern Maine should be laxed since northern Maine isn't a populated as southern Maine (where most of the cases are). But this is a fantastic way for them to bring more cases north...


----------



## Road Guy

Maine is a fairly tiny state but for some larger states I think it makes sense to take a regional approach - 

I always heard asthma is a much bigger problem in the NE? I wonder if that is part of why they are being hit so hard? Its still strange to me that Florida has one of the lowest death rates in the Country &amp; they have the highest elderly population?

But I think this "Go outside if you want to Die" routine is getting a little old though - They should at least be intellectually honest and say "Go outside if you want to die, if you are 70+, already have a life threatening illness, very overweight,  smoke, vape, do heavy drugs, etc"

&amp; I also dont think we need to be playing baseball tomorrow either.....

I sleep (well when she lets me) right next to someone who has been dealing with 4-6 covid+ patients a day for the last month (industry standard is 2 patients max) and she / we both agree that the emphasis should be on isolating / quarantining the high risk- but this nonsense of everyone is going to die is a little far fetched (even for today's media).  She only sees the ones who are very close to dying - I think 66% of those in the ICU end up dying, but many who just go to the hospital for 02 never make it to the ICU and are released quickly.

However, If she brings this home to me I have already decided I will handcuff myself to the house before I go to the hospital (except for when its time to workout and do my 100 burpees)


----------



## Platypus Engineer

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Folks, including a state rep, from The County (Aroostook County) are heading to Augusta to protest today. That the restrictions for northern Maine should be laxed since northern Maine isn't a populated as southern Maine (where most of the cases are). But this is a fantastic way for them to bring more cases north...


Well if you keep non essential travel restrictions in place it could work. I live in Maryland and roughly half the cases are in the two counties that border DC, and the vast majority are along the I-95 Corridor. The westernmost county  in MD has 4 cases, and it hasn't changed since last week. The media is only reporting the total number of cases, so it keeps going up, only recently began reporting number of negative tests.

The guidelines from last week are so vague that is almost impossible to meet. How much is enough testing, amount of PPE, what robust contact tracing ?

Even when restrictions are lifted, there is no way to guarantee no else gets infected or dies, until a vaccine. But with the regulatory spiderweb, who knows when that will happen.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Maine is a fairly tiny state but for some larger states I think it makes sense to take a regional approach -
> 
> I always heard asthma is a much bigger problem in the NE? I wonder if that is part of why they are being hit so hard? Its still strange to me that Florida has one of the lowest death rates in the Country &amp; they have the highest elderly population?
> 
> But I think this "Go outside if you want to Die" routine is getting a little old though - They should at least be intellectually honest and say "Go outside if you want to die, if you are 70+, already have a life threatening illness, very overweight,  smoke, vape, do heavy drugs, etc"
> 
> &amp; I also dont think we need to be playing baseball tomorrow either.....
> 
> I sleep (well when she lets me) right next to someone who has been dealing with 4-6 covid+ patients a day for the last month (industry standard is 2 patients max) and she / we both agree that the emphasis should be on isolating / quarantining the high risk- but this nonsense of everyone is going to die is a little far fetched (even for today's media).  She only sees the ones who are very close to dying - I think 66% of those in the ICU end up dying, but many who just go to the hospital for 02 never make it to the ICU and are released quickly.
> 
> However, If she brings this home to me I have already decided I will handcuff myself to the house before I go to the hospital (except for when its time to workout and do my 100 burpees)


But it's not just about you. It's about you. You getting infected puts everyone around you, and everyone around them, at risk.


----------



## Road Guy

right, that's why we should quarantine / isolate the high risk.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> right, that's why we should quarantine / isolate the high risk.


True, but it is too easy to punish everyone. Because isolating high risk will lead to claims of discrimination.


----------



## aog

Platypus Engineer said:


> True, but it is too easy to punish everyone. Because isolating high risk will lead to claims of discrimination.


So these three options?

1. Isolate everyone = no discrimination.

2. Isolate sick and high risk = discrimination

3. Let each decide for themselves to self-isolate = no discrimination.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont think there going to put a cop on a segway outside your home if you are high risk or anything, but we have a decent amount of data to know who is getting hospitalized, who is going to the ICU, who is dying. Its just common sense. 

Maybe that is a new race of citizen, high risk of dying from a SARS type disease?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Honestly from what I am hearing from some of these governors and mayors, it is going to take lawsuits to get these stay at home orders lifted.


----------



## Road Guy

Colorado announced some easing will happen in a week - but they didn't really give a ton of details - but it sounds like haircuts, tattoo shops (?), a little more retail, day care, regular medical offices / dentists / etc  - Still no bars / restaurants - Denver has somewhat  tighter restrictions and a longer stay at home "request" - glad my home and office is outside Denver City Limits -  But I think they want a staggered approach to work trying to keep 50% home and rotate for a little while longer, which honestly makes sense..  Sounds like no concerts or sports this summer in Denver City Limits - But Denver opened up there own pay to use parks such as golf courses -

I think were waiting to see some type of memo since there were not much details..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

golf courses you can spread out on.  There is push in NC to let NASCAR run Memorial Day race without fans.  if there any sports, it will be without fans.

Really missing Stanley Cup playoffs right now.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I'm glad I'm in New Orleans were there is no intention of lifting the orders anytime soon. There's no way these stay at home orders should be lifted before June. So many mayors and governors are making political decisions instead of science-driven decisions. We're about to create a 2nd wave of infection.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Well I may have been exposed to it back In late February/ early March. A nephew was really sick with fever of 104, it was called the flu by doctor. My brother thinks it may have been corona. I never developed symptoms, but I have chronic sinus issues hard to tell.


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> &amp; I also dont think we need to be playing baseball tomorrow either.....


In a related note, the Cincinnati Bengals have announced that their home games will go on as scheduled because they can meet the social distancing guidelines.


----------



## JayKay PE

So, I hate having allergies now because I have constant drippy nose/keep sneezing, and people think I'm a leper.

NO KAREN.  I DON'T HAVE THE RONA.  AND EVEN IF I DID, I'M WEARING A MASK.  GET AWAY FROM ME WITH YOUR GROSS ASS GLOVES.


----------



## jeb6294

JayKay PE said:


>


I know this has been popping up a lot lately...hahaha let the stupid people go outside and get infected...but by Darwins theory, shouldn't everybody be going about their business as usual and letting nature keep the ones with the strongest immune system?


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jeb6294 said:


> I know this has been popping up a lot lately...hahaha let the stupid people go outside and get infected...but by Darwins theory, shouldn't everybody be going about their business as usual and letting nature keep the ones with the strongest immune system?


Yes, but that's "cruel and unloving and unacceptable and etc."


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> I know this has been popping up a lot lately...hahaha let the stupid people go outside and get infected...but by Darwins theory, shouldn't everybody be going about their business as usual and letting nature keep the ones with the strongest immune system?


Technically, Darin's theory is that species arise and are developed by natural selection of specific traits that increase the organisms ability to survive/reproduce.  So it is Darwinism if you, as part of a species, decided to stay inside and decrease opportunities for the virus to impact you and your potential offspring.  By not contracting covid that increases your potential chance of mating and reproducing and passing on that trait of 'not being an asshole' to your kids.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE

I felt that was appropriate.  I feel uncomfortable.  You feel uncomfortable.  And we can't even enjoy the sandwich without biting our fingers.


----------



## Dean Agnostic

LyceeFruit PE said:


> My college friend lost his mom last night to Covid. The hospital let him suit up and be with her in her final moments.


----------



## thekzieg

Cases in WI had been slowing, but we're seeing a spike now thanks to them requiring the primary election to go forward on the 7th.


----------



## P-E




----------



## JayKay PE

P-E said:


> View attachment 17318


@Roarbark takes things very seriously.  They don't want to get sick in the future when they're pulled over for aggressive minivan driving.


----------



## csb




----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> View attachment 17328


That is the problem with people today. No work ethic


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

Ive been going out to get coffee in the mornings every day this week, it defin changes my brain to a normal work setting versus this prison on the planet BS I live in!


----------



## snickerd3

Road Guy said:


> Ive been going out to get coffee in the mornings every day this week, it defin changes my brain to a normal work setting versus this prison on the planet BS I live in!


I had been making the caffeine run to mc donalds when the daycare was still open.  Sort of glad I stopped...two of the employees tested positive last week.  The closed as soon as they got contacted about the test results, sent all employees home for 2 week quarantine.  Hired sanitizer company to come in to douse the entire bldg and opened the following day with staff from their other stores an hr away.


----------



## Road Guy

I think the capitalistic pigs at starbucks do a good job of being clean - Been going nearly every day so far, and I sleep with the devil contagion


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Ive been going out to get coffee in the mornings every day this week, it defin changes my brain to a normal work setting versus this prison on the planet BS I live in!


I went for about a 30 minute drive at the end of day earlier this week to try to restore normalcy to work routine. 

And the models say MD wont reach peak to end of May. But these were the same models that said 2 million people were gonna die.

Sweden had almost no lockdowns, kept schools open now say about 60 % of population there has been exposed and immune. Sweden tried to isolate nursing homes.


----------



## Road Guy

This model says MD has already Peaked:  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/07/825479416/new-yorks-coronavirus-deaths-may-level-off-soon-when-might-your-state-s-peak#allstates  ?? But who really knows..

I think if I didn't see my dead ass tired wife at the end of the day and hear the stories from her I would think this is mostly BS, because you just dont really see it.

But I do think they cried wolf with the models ( as "experts" usually do) and now we have nearly 30 Million people out of work. Logically we should try and do something to get that corrected before it gets out of hand. 

There are now lots of ventilators but no one to really run them if there is a large second wave - no one likes to hear this but many people that go on these ventilators are not going to make it, currently the US is running around 66% fatality rate for those on vents, Doctors need to be honest with families about survival rates

I dont know anything about Sweden wonder if Sweden has the attitude that your healthy is your responsibility and deal with it?  Id be curious to know what went into that - Maybe they went with the chicken pox plan and give it toeveryone and get over it?  But they do have a failry small population.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Yes sweden did chicken pox method. Did distancing. But the numbers in MD keep going up, and governor plan is vague how are standards met.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## jeb6294

They’re still talking about phasing people back to work in the office, but there are still a few of us reminding them that some of us have kids and schools aren’t opening. Latest is talk of coming back but keeping a liberal telework in place for those with kids and people who are high risk.


----------



## Road Guy

yeah that is going to be a problem for lots of people once the larger business workforce decides to come back to the office -  (especially if there are no camps or _camp grandma_ this summer)

     My in laws normally keep my BIL's kid literally the entire summer (which we know they dont like doing for 2 months) be curious if that happens this year, but assuming the kids have been quarantined at home like the rest of them there probably isnt much risk.

I noticed on my bike ride yesterday that the urgent care place near our house as well as Kroger are now offering covid testing with no doctors note required - 

I'm assuming this is a good thing where people can get tested and auto isolate if positive and stay home for 2 weeks if they dont need to go to hospital


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Hahahahahaha


----------



## Platypus Engineer

" I love the ingenuity of Americans" - Something that has quite literally changed the world.


----------



## Road Guy

that phone # is also a recording..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> that phone # is also a recording..


Your call is important to us. Please leave a message.  Message may be returned before next millenium


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> that phone # is also a recording..


I'm guessing it went to a live person until that post started to pick up steam.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know, it just reminds me of the "nurses" who protested in Denver but the local news couldn't track any of them down for ID, Scrubs were not typical of the area,  and the general consensus is that they were fake - cause let me tell you if there is one thing I have learned about an ER / ICU / Nurse  walking out in traffic is not something they are going to go..  But the pictures looked nice... They ran out in the crosswalks when the lights turned red, a photo was taken, and they ran back to the sidewalk..

I just am sick of the manipulation of this -

Georgia is getting heckled in the news ( I have made fun of my home state as well), but they have access to some great healthcare systems -including Emory and Wellstar (far better than what I have in "progressive" Colorado) - I assume the Governors folks talked to the people who run the hospital networks and had a conversation that went something like, well we were one of last largely populated states to close, and our ICU's are about half full so I think if we do X, then this will happen and we can or cant cover it...

I think the same conversation occurred in Colorado ( Dem Gov) and pieces of state are opening - just a little slower, but its very similar rollout -


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I was only posting because funny


----------



## Road Guy

I found the post misogynist because it assumed a "lady" would be answering the phone


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> I think the same conversation occurred in Colorado ( Dem Gov) and pieces of state are opening - just a little slower, but its very similar rollout -


And if I'm not mistaken, CO is now part of the "western coalition" for reopening...which also includes WA, OR, CA, NV. All Dem states, of course. I wonder if ID got an invite.


----------



## Road Guy

I haven't heard that yet, technically today several "things" are open statewide (with restrictions) but the Denver metro areas added a week to the Gov's plan - So I could drive 10 min to the next County to the north and get a haircut and do some "controlled" retail shopping, but I cant in my hometown - Where as I think California is going to stay locked down until ICE is abolished (j/k - dont stone me)  But I hope we dont pair with California for anything -

I think most office type jobs can resume with a 50-50 capacity (home / office) May 8th.  I think most business will keep people at home and have a trickle in plan.


----------



## Road Guy

but this was a question the wife asked me and makes sense:

When they pull the breathing tube out of a patient they force the patient to cough - _they force covid patients to cough_, _on you_, she says she can feel them coughing on her - she is wearing an N95 masks and a face shield but it seems to me that if she can spend 12 hours  day basically locked in a room full of covid patients and not get sick (yet, knock on wood) then maybe we can all manage wearing lower grade N95 masks through the summer?  Like someone print the "easy" button and start making some F'n masks???


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> Like someone print the "easy" button and start making some F'n masks???


My guess is politicians prefer to play the game the hard way. Sort of like minecraft on survival mode.


----------



## Violator




----------



## Violator

Anyone in Illinois here?  When the numbers don't go down in Chicago and your stuck at home remember these fine folks:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/28/another-packed-chicago-house-party-features-stripper-coronavirus-pandemic/

SFW but still a tad gross.


----------



## jeb6294

Ohio governor Mike “Chicken Little” DeWine came out yesterday and said May is going to be the start of returning to normal and people promptly went apeshit. 1) Restrictions on businesses will start easing up, but oddly enough, only the big businesses, i.e. Walmart, Kroger, etc. so small businesses are getting screwed again. 2) He decreed that anyone out in public has to be wearing a mask.

As a bearded fellow, I'm going to go with PFB like the Maryland popo: https://www.wlox.com/2020/04/28/bearded-md-police-officers-paid-leave-due-cdc-guidelines/


----------



## Road Guy

These Blue state Governors are fucking the small business folks hard and I dont think they are giving them a reach around either..

I guess the big box stores own all the politicians - Ive been trying to avoid them - I dont care to wait in line to spend money.  The ranching stores have a decent hardware section and Ive been able to get most of stuff I need from them -  but just the idea that you corral everyone in these large stores when you could have specialty stores open to "flatten the curve" in the wal marts would be a better situation &amp; you can control the people in and out much easier..


----------



## Master slacker

Road Guy said:


> These Blue state Governors are fucking the small business folks hard and I dont think they are giving them a reach around either..


Werd.  We got two more weeks in the klink, but restaurants with outdoor sitting can open up at 25% capacity.  Yee-fucking-haw!

Yeah, we can keep Wally World, the Big Orange Box, the Big Blue Box, Target, and other large group centers open with no limitations, but fuck you, Mr. Want-to-go-to-dinner-and-grab-a-beer-or-three-with-the-family.  You'll stay home and you'll like it.


----------



## Master slacker

Oh, so I'm on the review panel for senior design projects again, and doing it on Zoom is super weird.  No cookie trays, breakfast platters, or anything.


----------



## ruggercsc

I went into the office to clear out my shit after I got canned yesterday for being "redundant".  There is a real bloodbath at our office with essentially everyone taking a pay cut, being cut to 3 or 4 day workweeks, furloughed, or canned. I am honestly relieved because with me being there so long, I am grandfathered into an old severance package.


2 weeks for every year of service (I have been there for 17 years)  - 34 weeks total

Accrued but unused vacation - 7.5 weeks

I only pay my current company rate for Medical, Dental, and Vision for 9 months

On payroll until June 4th.

Also, TN is "severance is payment for past services" instead of payment is for future services state (Means with the former  you are eligible for UI after your last work day and the latter is you are only eligible after your benefit period is over).

So they will be cutting me a nice check and I don't have to put up with their BS.  I have had three different bosses in the past 18 Months (Construction Guy, Real Estate Developer Guy, and Commercial Risk Management Guy that laid me off).  He never really understood what I did so this morning I forwarded him about 60 emails of issues I was dealing with instructions to the individual that I was leaving and to contact my boss to get them resolved.  He got overwhelmed and asked that I forward to someone else.   I told him I hadn't slept and was on my 10th cup of coffee due to stress so I might forget and he should just forward it to them.  I was asked for spreadsheet for a budget and I sent them about 20 folders with 30 documents each with the message that it is in there somewhere and they will need everything at some point.  They had a TEAMS meeting after that with my boss telling others he had no idea I had that much on my plate (Go figure, he never took the time to understand what I was did).  Anyway, I think they will leave me alone until June 4th and just call me or email with questions. 

Meanwhile, the job search is on and I have already talked to two recruiters and had one interview with position with one of our consultants that looks extremely promising.  Pay is comparable and they told me they had me in mind when they started recruiting for this position.  Although I have only had my PE License for four years, I find it is definitely opening doors I would not have had if I had not received it.   No matter how old you are, it is never too late to get it and it will pay off for you at sometime.


----------



## P-E

We got an extra two weeks here in MA.  No surprise there.


----------



## ruggercsc

Got canned from my job but on the payroll until June 4th so I guess have 5+ weeks.


----------



## Road Guy

Ah so sorry man! Glad to hear you are getting some leads working in your favor.


----------



## Ble_PE

Sorry to hear it @ruggercsc, but at least you've got a few prospects. Also sounds like you received a good severance package, so you'll be able to weather some time unemployed if it comes to that.


----------



## snickerd3

ruggercsc said:


> I went into the office to clear out my shit after I got canned yesterday for being "redundant".  There is a real bloodbath at our office with essentially everyone taking a pay cut, being cut to 3 or 4 day workweeks, furloughed, or canned. I am honestly relieved because with me being there so long, I am grandfathered into an old severance package.
> 
> 
> 2 weeks for every year of service (I have been there for 17 years)  - 34 weeks total
> 
> Accrued but unused vacation - 7.5 weeks
> 
> I only pay my current company rate for Medical, Dental, and Vision for 9 months
> 
> On payroll until June 4th.
> 
> Also, TN is "severance is payment for past services" instead of payment is for future services state (Means with the former  you are eligible for UI after your last work day and the latter is you are only eligible after your benefit period is over).
> 
> So they will be cutting me a nice check and I don't have to put up with their BS.  I have had three different bosses in the past 18 Months (Construction Guy, Real Estate Developer Guy, and Commercial Risk Management Guy that laid me off).  He never really understood what I did so this morning I forwarded him about 60 emails of issues I was dealing with instructions to the individual that I was leaving and to contact my boss to get them resolved.  He got overwhelmed and asked that I forward to someone else.   I told him I hadn't slept and was on my 10th cup of coffee due to stress so I might forget and he should just forward it to them.  I was asked for spreadsheet for a budget and I sent them about 20 folders with 30 documents each with the message that it is in there somewhere and they will need everything at some point.  They had a TEAMS meeting after that with my boss saying telling others he had no idea I had that much on my plate (Go figure, he never took the time to understand what I was did).  Anyway, I think they will leave me alone until June 4th and just call me or email with questions.
> 
> Meanwhile, the job search is on and I have already talked to two recruiters and had one interview with position with one of our consultants that looks extremely promising.  Pay is comparable and they told me they had me in mind when they started recruiting for this position.  Although I have only had my PE License for four years, I find it is definitely opening doors I would not have had if I had not received it.   No matter how old you are, it is never too late to get it and it will pay off for you at sometime.


sucky situation, but you are handling it quite well.  I wanted to use the heart and the sad face, but can only picj one.  and you managed to plug the get your PE!!!  You are awesome and will get through this, probably better than before.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

ruggercsc said:


> Got canned from my job but on the payroll until June 4th so I guess have 5+ weeks.


Sorry to hear that


----------



## Road Guy

Someone help me understand why do the Feds have to do small business loans when it was the States Governors who shut them down?

Why dont the state and locals bare some skin in the game for covering these loans?  They are the ones who directly told people to close down (in most states)...

&amp; not looking for a political argument but from my vantage point I dont see much compassion to get these folks back up and running (which would end the need for a good portion of the loans)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

ruggercsc said:


> I went into the office to clear out my shit after I got canned yesterday for being "redundant".  There is a real bloodbath at our office with essentially everyone taking a pay cut, being cut to 3 or 4 day workweeks, furloughed, or canned. I am honestly relieved because with me being there so long, I am grandfathered into an old severance package.
> 
> 
> 2 weeks for every year of service (I have been there for 17 years)  - 34 weeks total
> 
> Accrued but unused vacation - 7.5 weeks
> 
> I only pay my current company rate for Medical, Dental, and Vision for 9 months
> 
> On payroll until June 4th.
> 
> Also, TN is "severance is payment for past services" instead of payment is for future services state (Means with the former  you are eligible for UI after your last work day and the latter is you are only eligible after your benefit period is over).
> 
> So they will be cutting me a nice check and I don't have to put up with their BS.  I have had three different bosses in the past 18 Months (Construction Guy, Real Estate Developer Guy, and Commercial Risk Management Guy that laid me off).  He never really understood what I did so this morning I forwarded him about 60 emails of issues I was dealing with instructions to the individual that I was leaving and to contact my boss to get them resolved.  He got overwhelmed and asked that I forward to someone else.   I told him I hadn't slept and was on my 10th cup of coffee due to stress so I might forget and he should just forward it to them.  I was asked for spreadsheet for a budget and I sent them about 20 folders with 30 documents each with the message that it is in there somewhere and they will need everything at some point.  They had a TEAMS meeting after that with my boss saying telling others he had no idea I had that much on my plate (Go figure, he never took the time to understand what I was did).  Anyway, I think they will leave me alone until June 4th and just call me or email with questions.
> 
> Meanwhile, the job search is on and I have already talked to two recruiters and had one interview with position with one of our consultants that looks extremely promising.  Pay is comparable and they told me they had me in mind when they started recruiting for this position.  Although I have only had my PE License for four years, I find it is definitely opening doors I would not have had if I had not received it.   No matter how old you are, it is never too late to get it and it will pay off for you at sometime.


Sorry to hear you got let go. I'm glad that you have a good severance package, and already have some prospects.


----------



## csb

@ruggercsc Sorry to hear you laid off, but I'm hoping it ends with a much better situation!


----------



## ruggercsc

Thanks all.  I am getting hits on my resume and notifications from the job search engines to start conversations.  When I cleared my stuff out of the office I did get another stapler for my collection (a piece of crap plastic one though).


----------



## P-E




----------



## Violator




----------



## jeb6294

Mike “Chicken Little” DeWine, governor of Ohio and proven buffoon, has decided that as Ohio phases back into normalcy, church services will be phased in before barbers/salons. Please tell me how it is okay for people to pile into churches and sit in pews together but not have one person sitting in a chair getting a haircut.


----------



## Road Guy

Because barbers can’t have an impact on voting?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Mike “Chicken Little” DeWine, governor of Ohio and proven buffoon, has decided that as Ohio phases back into normalcy, church services will be phased in before barbers/salons. Please tell me how it is okay for people to pile into churches and sit in pews together but not have one person sitting in a chair getting a haircut.


Using logic to try to figure out a decision made by a politician. That is not allowed


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

In other news, those of us in WA state are probably all going to die. If not by COVID-19, then by these little buggers:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/02/us/asian-giant-hornet-washington.html


----------



## snickerd3

yeah please keep those not so little shits over there.  Build a force field or something...


----------



## Road Guy

The news loves to be dramatic dont they!

I think a few years ago there were also some killer bees from Mexico they made a big fuss about that never materialized?


----------



## P-E

another malady from Asia


----------



## Road Guy

I tell you if you ever wanted to go see a doctor and not get treated like shit now is the time - its weird I think every Doc I have seen in the last 10 years has reached out like "so how is that random illness I treated you for 7 years ago doing?"  Need to come in for anything were open, lol -


----------



## snickerd3

Our drs office and the prompt care places are still crazy busy.  The hospital however furloughed a bunch of drs and nurses.  Our neighbor is a surgeon at our local hospital and he has been furloughed since late march.  The ER just furloughed a bunch of nurses this past Friday.  Covid or covid like cases are transfered to larger city hospital before they even can enter the building.  We have the only maternity ward in the tri-county area, so they are being super vigilant to keep the little ones safe.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> I tell you if you ever wanted to go see a doctor and not get treated like shit now is the time - its weird I think every Doc I have seen in the last 10 years has reached out like "so how is that random illness I treated you for 7 years ago doing?"  Need to come in for anything were open, lol -


I had a family member that was schedule to have a pacemaker put in late March. It got delayed because it was considered "elective." Only when heart rate was at 35 and taken to hospital in ambulance was it done. And done as outpatient in hospital 50 miles away because that is where surgeon was.

This whole pandemic has been a clusterfudge.


----------



## Road Guy

The hospital the wife works at just started elective surgeries today - she said over the past month she felt bad that she has been working and she has seen other RN's having to take tech jobs / custodial stuff / stocking /etc - to be able to get hours (but she was called off 2 days last week so things are even slowing in the ICU)

its hard to ramp up and down a hospital - now people are leery to go back and the places are empty - the regional hospitals are going to need more of a bailout than the airlines..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

I have a cousin that is an oncology nurse. Her ward and the cardiac ward at the hospital were taking COVID patients due to volume. Her hospital is one of the two hardest hit counties in MD. Roughly half the cases are in the two counties that border DC. The westermost county in MD which is geographically and culturally about as close to Pittsburgh as it is DC or Baltimore has had 4 cases for over two weeks with no  change.

I just called it a work day. Tired of dealing with endless email strings related to invoicing and getting options terms approved. Been wearing my accountant hat for most of today. And approaching two months of work from home.


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah I am glad to not be anywhere near DC area up to the NE right now - 

I think at their fullest they overflowed into PACU - they had a real problem getting other nurses to get temp trained to run vents and whatever else is needed - so I think the hospital got a bunch of travelers on 6 week contracts to staff the ICU because apparently everyone always wants to come to Colorado (but not when everything closed lol) so when the other floors ran out of work the "managers" just told them to stay home - guess I cant blame them - but sucks all around..

Yeah if I had know I would be doing this through June likely I would have gotten a better home office set up..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Yeah if I had know I would be doing this through June likely I would have gotten a better home office set up..


My IT let people in my department bring monitors home. Trouble was had to bring docking station home to get to connect to laptop. Since I had to bring docking station, I brought keyboard and mouse home.  And docking station means spiderweb of cables.

Bought a cheap 32 inch TV ($ 100) from walmart for working from home, for electronic plan review an large spreadsheets.

Fortunately, my job switched remote access from a not user friendly system (citrix) 3 logins could not use multiple screens, to a simpler system. New system is basically like connecting to a wifi network.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

A semblance of normalcy, at least they get a graduation ceremony

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2020/05/04/erik-jones-cole-custer-eddie-gossage-chip-wile-texas-motor-speedway-daytona-international-speedway-high-school-graduation-covid-19/


----------



## Master slacker

Furlough week #2.  THis sh*t better not happen any more.


----------



## jeb6294

Just got back from a long weekend in Penn. (wife has been there for about a month doing testing at some giant Walmart distribution center and is probably going to be there until the end of June) where they have a mandatory mask order when you're anyplace that's not your house. Was sitting around BS-ing with a bunch of the nurses/EMT's/NP's/etc. the last night and they all agreed that the whole mask thing is useless. The virus can get through a mask and at this point all your doing is creating an incubator on your face.

BTW, Bethlehem, PA was pretty neat. They've turned part of the old steel plant into a recreation area. Would have been nice to see some of it up close but most of it was shut down due to the current nonsense.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Master slacker said:


> Furlough week #2.  THis sh*t better not happen any more.


Maybe next time our "leaders" will close the borders sooner and keep infected people out of country.



jeb6294 said:


> Just got back from a long weekend in Penn. (wife has been there for about a month doing testing at some giant Walmart distribution center and is probably going to be there until the end of June) where they have a mandatory mask order when you're anyplace that's not your house. Was sitting around BS-ing with a bunch of the nurses/EMT's/NP's/etc. the last night and they all agreed that the whole mask thing is useless. The virus can get through a mask and at this point all your doing is creating an incubator on your face.
> 
> BTW, Bethlehem, PA was pretty neat. They've turned part of the old steel plant into a recreation area. Would have been nice to see some of it up close but most of it was shut down due to the current nonsense.


Yea northeast PA is pretty nice. Kind of out of way but still close to major cities.  Next time you are near there, in Easton PA is Crayola crayon factory, they offer tours. Never had chance to take it. Old steel into recreation area, better than what Pittsburgh did turned old mill into strip mall and casino.


----------



## Road Guy

You know with NYC having almost half the deaths in the Country, Id like to see their reaction in some alternate universe if say Atlanta has 30K deaths and NYC had 1200 - I doubt it would be the same - They would likely be, stupid fat southerners, serves you right!

I could be wrong but I dont think so..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> You know with NYC having almost half the deaths in the Country, Id like to see their reaction in some alternate universe if say Atlanta has 30K deaths and NYC had 1200 - I doubt it would be the same - They would likely be, stupid fat southerners, serves you right!
> 
> I could be wrong but I dont think so..


No you are pretty much right. Plenty of fat people in NYC from what I've seen


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## JayKay PE

@Road Guy...so you're saying if we stay inside, the number of murder hornet deaths will increase in a short period...isn't that good?


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

Damn....


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Damn....


----------



## Supe




----------



## snickerd3




----------



## Road Guy

We stopped at this combination gas store / grocery store / liquor store while we were in South Dakota and they had this hand sanitizer for sale at the counter, not home made, but not Johnson and Johnson, I think it actually removes a layer of skin, and the label says not to be used by pregnant women? yikes!

Also South Dakota might get a bad rap for being "open" in the huffington post, but Rapid City was locked down pretty tight when we were there and about half the people wearing masks - wasn't too different from Denver Burbs..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

P-E said:


>


One of the most ridiculousy stupid (and funny) movies ever


----------



## Master slacker

Road Guy said:


> We stopped at this combination gas store / grocery store / liquor store while we were in South Dakota...


The ONLY thing I could think of when I read this (I don't know why)...


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> We stopped at this combination gas store / grocery store / liquor store while we were in South Dakota and they had this hand sanitizer for sale at the counter, not home made, but not Johnson and Johnson, I think it actually removes a layer of skin, and the label says not to be used by pregnant women? yikes!
> 
> Also South Dakota might get a bad rap for being "open" in the huffington post, but Rapid City was locked down pretty tight when we were there and about half the people wearing masks - wasn't too different from Denver Burbs..


Ohio has started letting some stuff open up again and the "Karens" are out in full force mask shaming people on the Township FB group.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Ohio has started letting some stuff open up again and the "Karens" are out in full force mask shaming people on the Township FB group.


MD reopened their state parks last week. Went to one to get outside and get some sunlight. Wore a mask just in case I have been exposed, people looked at me like I was nuts.

But when your family has police, firefighter and a nurse, no reason to take precautions.


----------



## Road Guy

glad my lady friend gave me a haircut last week!


----------



## csb

Supe said:


> View attachment 17497


DId you see they did a Facebook Live event last week? 



Road Guy said:


> glad my lady friend gave me a haircut last week!


I bet zero of those places with a wait have stylists that are drunk. 

Well, at least I'm guessing the percentage is lower.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> glad my lady friend gave me a haircut last week!
> 
> View attachment 17508


I bought a set of clippers from walmart ($ 20) did it myself. Just kinda did the going into military mow. My hair grows slow, I can go over 2 months between cuts, get away with shaving every other day.


----------



## Supe

csb said:


> DId you see they did a Facebook Live event last week?


I didn't know


----------



## Master slacker

GWS Kalifornia


----------



## JayKay PE

My parents traveled up to the upstate house and my mom was miffed the whole time driving.

Her reason: my dad didn't want to cross state lines, since it's now a pain in NY, so they had to take 17.  And my mom has an unwarranted hatred for that route.


----------



## Supe

Avoiding NY in its entirety, even when its not the Corona Times, would likely be the better option.


----------



## JayKay PE

Supe said:


> Avoiding NY in its entirety, even when its not the Corona Times, would likely be the better option.


Hahahahahahaha, since a majority of my family is located there, it's a little difficult.

I have a flight to go home in July.  That...might get cancelled and I will prob drive, depending on what happens in the next month with airlines (they...are not handling social distancing well).


----------



## Supe

JayKay PE said:


> since a majority of my family is located there, it's a little difficult.


You're only helping sell my point, here.


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; this virus is really handing NY its ass on a plate, its safer in Florida to be honest (which is strange)


----------



## JayKay PE

Supe said:


> You're only helping sell my point, here.


*is trapped in awkward moment of realizing I may love my family*


----------



## Supe

JayKay PE said:


> *is trapped in awkward moment of realizing I may love my family*


----------



## JayKay PE

Supe said:


>


----------



## Road Guy

I feel bad I havent been back east to see my parents and then when I do get in the same house as them after day 2 I am like "Why am I doing this to myself?"


----------



## Road Guy

anyone see the news stories about the cruise ship workers being trapped on the ship and basically stuck in their cabins because there cruise companies are too cheap to fly to send them all home?  jesus, if there ever was an industry that needs to die its probably them


----------



## snickerd3

Road Guy said:


> anyone see the news stories about the cruise ship workers being trapped on the ship and basically stuck in their cabins because there cruise companies are too cheap to fly to send them all home?  jesus, if there ever was an industry that needs to die its probably them


I saw that one.  Although the rules are a little crazy.   They can only leave if by private transportation to chartered plane no commercial flights for them and have to leave the city by days end, no hotel layovers.  THe cruise company is held responsible if workers break the rules.  

it sounded like some companies were going to try to sort the staff by geographic regions and cruise them back the areas so they can get on a shorter flight.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> Avoiding NY in its entirety, even when its not the Corona Times, would likely be the better option.


Should try driving in NYC with a manual transmission vehicle while UN general assembly is in session.

Definition of circle of hell


----------



## Supe

Platypus Engineer said:


> Should try driving in NYC with a manual transmission vehicle while UN general assembly is in session.
> 
> Definition of circle of hell


I thought I was nuts still driving stick in regular NC traffic.  You have to be a masochist to do the same in NYC on a regular day, never mind unusual circumstances.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> &amp; this virus is really handing NY its ass on a plate, its safer in Florida to be honest (which is strange)


Florida is generally warmer and brighter than NY, so that might be it since virus doesnt survive in warmer weather and sunlight. ,


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> I thought I was nuts still driving stick in regular NC traffic.  You have to be a masochist to do the same in NYC on a regular day, never mind unusual circumstances.


it was work assignment, not by choice.

I frankly do not know why most people who live in NYC even own cars. The one city in this country where you probably go without car.

And what was probably the most useless car dealership I ever saw, a Maserati dealer in the middle of midtown Manhattan


----------



## JayKay PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> it was work assignment, not by choice.
> 
> I frankly do not know why most people who live in NYC even own cars. The one city in this country where you probably go without car.
> 
> And what was probably the most useless car dealership I ever saw, a Maserati dealer in the middle of midtown Manhattan


Uh, they buy the Maserati so they can drive out to the Hamptons during the summer.  Duh.

As for driving stick - my mom still does.  She actually prefers it.  Though I feel bad when we're in stop and go on the LIE or going through the Bronx.  I wonder if her arm gets tired shifting back and forth from 1st to 2nd then down again.


----------



## Supe

The arm isn't what gets tired.  It's your clutch leg.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I drive a manual transmission.

I definitely prefer it on a sports car. But I drive a manual SUV. It's just the best car I could afford at the time that I bought it.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I drive a manual transmission


Bleh, 15 years of driving manual is enough. There's really no good reason to anymore, unless you just plain enjoy it. In which case, cool!

At this point in life, I'm all about convenience and automatic easily wins the day. I R lazy.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

JayKay PE said:


> to the upstate house


You have to leave NY state to go upstate? Where to?


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Triple?

*don't ban me*


----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> Uh, they buy the Maserati so they can drive out to the Hamptons during the summer.  Duh.
> 
> As for driving stick - my mom still does.  She actually prefers it.  Though I feel bad when we're in stop and go on the LIE or going through the Bronx.  I wonder if her arm gets tired shifting back and forth from 1st to 2nd then down again.


LIE (Long Island Expressway) one of the most misnamed roads. There is saying about it but I dont remember.

Stop and go up there was bad because it was so flat, you couldn't just take foot off brake and coast a little bit like other places

 And the vehicle I was driving first was supposed to be 0-10, but in reality it was 0-5, so usually wound up just going straight into 2nd.

NYC only place I have ever been honked at for letting an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens on pass.



Supe said:


> The arm isn't what gets tired.  It's your clutch leg.


I developed a conditioned response where I would bring my left leg forward to push clutch in, even when driving personal vehicle which was automatic


----------



## Road Guy

Platypus Engineer said:


> Florida is generally warmer and brighter than NY, so that might be it since virus doesnt survive in warmer weather and sunlight. ,


Not by the shear magnitude the difference is though, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Not really certain why everyone is in love with Cuomo to be honest - Florida has literally the highest # of elderly &amp; obviously a better regional hospital system, but you are literally way more likely to die in NY than FL


----------



## blybrook PE

I drive a manual transmission Ram 3500. Prefer the stick for winter conditions as I don't have to worry about the transmission shifting on me when things start to slip. Much better control in winter conditions. I grew up driving a manual and had to special order the truck to get it. They are harder and harder to find.

Added bonus of theft deterrent and the wife can't drive it.


----------



## JayKay PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> You have to leave NY state to go upstate? Where to?


You can.  If you're taking I think 80 or 380?  You pass through Jersey and some of Pennsylvania.  Not for long, but enough that you can get that cheap-cheap gas.



Platypus Engineer said:


> NYC only place I have ever been honked at for letting an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens on pass.


To be honest, that is one of the things I am still having a problem with after moving from NY.  People...who are traveling in the other direction...will stop for emergency vehicles.  As in.  Stop in the middle of the lane they're traveling.  Maybe something is wrong with me, but I feel like that would cause more problems and accidents than help the emergency vehicle.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> You can.  If you're taking I think 80 or 380?  You pass through Jersey and some of Pennsylvania.  Not for long, but enough that you can get that cheap-cheap gas.
> 
> To be honest, that is one of the things I am still having a problem with after moving from NY.  People...who are traveling in the other direction...will stop for emergency vehicles.  As in.  Stop in the middle of the lane they're traveling.  Maybe something is wrong with me, but I feel like that would cause more problems and accidents than help the emergency vehicle.


I will stop if approaching intersection and vehicle is coming from other direction, in case it is turning.

I had to go to a town in PA once along NY border, had to go into NY to get to it, since mountains blocked access from PA side


----------



## Platypus Engineer

blybrook PE said:


> I drive a manual transmission Ram 3500. Prefer the stick for winter conditions as I don't have to worry about the transmission shifting on me when things start to slip. Much better control in winter conditions. I grew up driving a manual and had to special order the truck to get it. They are harder and harder to find.
> 
> Added bonus of theft deterrent and the wife can't drive it.


That work vehicle I never worried about it being stolen. Manual transmission, diesel engine, company name on sides and back.

Full four door cab, eight foot bed, even when I parked it well, it would take up two spaces. Rear wheels on line between spaces, rest of bed hanging over into next space.


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> Not by the shear magnitude the difference is though, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
> 
> Not really certain why everyone is in love with Cuomo to be honest - Florida has literally the highest # of elderly &amp; obviously a better regional hospital system, but you are literally way more likely to die in NY than FL


I've seen a headline or two talking about Vitamin D deficiency factoring in to COVID prognosis. That might stack the deck in favor of states like Florida and HI. Although you'd think CO would be in that category as well?

I've been surprised and pleased by how much HI has tapered our curve. We're in single digit growth for many weeks. Considering our main city areas are more dense than Denver, I expected trouble. Thank you, Sunny D?

*Edit: I feel like NYC's biggest problem is just plain population density. Manhattan has 66,940 people per square mile, according to a quick google search? Didn't know you could stack people that high.*


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Roarbark said:


> *Edit: I feel like NYC's biggest problem is just plain population density. Manhattan has 66,940 people per square mile, according to a quick google search? Didn't know you could stack people that high.*


Yea you can put a lot of people into the concrete canyons. And a three story townhouse in other parts of country would be made into a 3 or 6 apartment unit up there.

And the public housing is basically people warehousing. Tall brick buildings that take up multiple city blocks


----------



## Master slacker

Roarbark said:


> *I feel like NYC's biggest problem is just plain population density. Manhattan has 66,940 people per square mile, according to a quick google search? Didn't know you could stack people that high.*


Evidently, nursing homes can be stacked pretty high with infected people, too...


----------



## mudpuppy

JayKay PE said:


> To be honest, that is one of the things I am still having a problem with after moving from NY.  People...who are traveling in the other direction...will stop for emergency vehicles.  As in.  Stop in the middle of the lane they're traveling.  Maybe something is wrong with me, but I feel like that would cause more problems and accidents than help the emergency vehicle.


Generally it's the law to stop if you're approached by an emergency vehicle in either direction.  Perhaps NY is different, but Michigan's law is:



> The driver of another vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to and as close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, clear of an intersection, and shall stop and remain in that position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.


----------



## Road Guy

(not related to the nursing homes, but NYC in general)


----------



## Road Guy

heard this on the radio this morning, had to do a double take to see if there was already a song out called "Six Feet Apart"...


----------



## Ble_PE

> 24 minutes ago, Road Guy said:
> 
> heard this on the radio this morning, had to do a double take to see if there was already a song out called "Six Feet Apart"...



Luke Combs is one of the best country singers to come out in a long time!


----------



## Road Guy

I’m a sucker I already bought it.......


----------



## jeb6294

Ohio has just started doing antibody testing and has already traced cases back to January (Ohio's first reported case was March 9th and shut down started March 23rd). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they find it's been around even longer than that.

The school was sending out the usual "flu emails" in Nov/Dec warning about the number of students absent due to the flu and keeping your kid home if they're sick. Makes me wonder if COVID was already making the rounds.

Of course, there wasn't worldwide panic in the media yet so I guess none of this could possibly be true.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/antibody-testing-reveals-covid-19-has-been-in-ohio-since-january-health-officials-say/32438290#


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Ohio has just started doing antibody testing and has already traced cases back to January (Ohio's first reported case was March 9th and shut down started March 23rd). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they find it's been around even longer than that.
> 
> The school was sending out the usual "flu emails" in Nov/Dec warning about the number of students absent due to the flu and keeping your kid home if they're sick. Makes me wonder if COVID was already making the rounds.
> 
> Of course, there wasn't worldwide panic in the media yet so I guess none of this could possibly be true.
> 
> https://www.wlwt.com/article/antibody-testing-reveals-covid-19-has-been-in-ohio-since-january-health-officials-say/32438290#


Yes. I think it will be found that this was here well before any one realized. Especially with how long it took to impose international travel restrictions. Just heard a quote from President where he said Fauci originally did not want to restrict travel to an from China


----------



## Road Guy

So the wife and I have both tested negative for antibody's. 

Almost everyone  at our gym was sick in January so we all assumed it may have been around then too (which it has) but 2 other people from our gym ( 5 am time slot regulars) also got tested and were negative for antibody's - so I think we were all just hoping we had already had it.  I have heard it doesn't stay in your body longer than 8 weeks - but also heard Faucci say otherwise.   Even though we had the flu shot I think we just had some version of the flu because I recall being too sick to ski several days, and usually anytime there is fresh snow and I take a pass I must feel bad..

I think the world will go nuts with online school in the fall.

My youngest will be a senior next year and he has already asked if he can move to Tampa with my parents and finish his school year if school here is online next year - I told him just to get a full time job and half ass your schooling like you have been doing already and getting A's and make some $$$$ - but I think its going to be depressing as fuck to continue the online schooling into next year.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> So the wife and I have both tested negative for antibody's.
> 
> Almost everyone  at our gym was sick in January so we all assumed it may have been around then too (which it has) but 2 other people from our gym ( 5 am time slot regulars) also got tested and were negative for antibody's - so I think we were all just hoping we had already had it.  I have heard it doesn't stay in your body longer than 8 weeks - but also heard Faucci say otherwise.   Even though we had the flu shot I think we just had some version of the flu because I recall being too sick to ski several days, and usually anytime there is fresh snow and I take a pass I must feel bad..
> 
> I think the world will go nuts with online school in the fall.
> 
> My youngest will be a senior next year and he has already asked if he can move to Tampa with my parents and finish his school year if school here is online next year - I told him just to get a full time job and half ass your schooling like you have been doing already and getting A's and make some $$$$ - but I think its going to be depressing as fuck to continue the online schooling into next year.


This has frankly gone beyond public health and trying to control people's lives.

I was listening to some political talk radio earlier. Host was saying keeping schools closed helps depress economy because people need to be home to watch kids. Have to watch kids, then you can't work, then you become dependent on government.  Can't say I completely disagree with this thought.


----------



## Dleg

Jesus F Christ people. The virus is real and this is not a massive conspiracy to impose socialism on the US. If this virus was going around last October and November, it would have been obvious from the number of people in the ICU and on ventilators. Which was not the case. How do I know that?  Because the US and the rest of the world have robust public health surveillance systems that have been in place for decades (a century??) designed to detect waves of unexplained flu-like illnesses. 

A lack of information is not indicative of a conspiracy. It is simply because this is all new, and even the smart people don't know everything about this virus yet. 

But hey if you don't believe it, go out there and start licking doorknobs to prove that the experts are wrong.


----------



## Road Guy

California is probably 6 months away from eating dog food //content.invisioncic.com/r86644/emoticons/default_wink.png

They will probably still be on stay at home orders this time next year....


----------



## Master slacker

Dleg said:


> The virus is real and this is not a massive conspiracy to impose socialism on the US.


I don't think anyone is saying the virus isn't real.  However, the response, in hindsight, was completely overblown (and still is IMHO).  First it was "flatten the curve" and now it's "we must wait for the vaccine".  With that said, consider this.  Even with a flu vaccine, flu deaths are estimated to range between 10,000 - 61,000 each year.  And not all flu cases are reported:



> _CDC officials do not have exact counts of how many people die from flu each year. Flu is so common that not all flu cases are reported, and flu is *not always listed on death certificates*. So the CDC uses statistical models, which are periodically revised, to make estimates._


As of yesterday, there have been 84,000 deaths directly attributed to COVID.  However, Dr. Birx has stated that the actual death count is inflated:



> _“I think in this country, we are taking a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks,” she said, adding, “If someone dies with COVID-19, *we are counting that*.”_


I'm not looking to change anyone's mind, but if it were possible to just compare seasonal flu to COVID on a level playing field, these hospitalization and death numbers would be different (and closer).


----------



## Dleg

Arrgh. If someone dies of AIDS, it's not the HIV that kills them. It's the pneumonia, etc., but everyone agrees that they died of AIDS because they wouldn't have died otherwise. This virus attacks the respiratory system.  Without oxygen, all the other organs start failing. Heart,  etc. Cause of death may be heart failure.  But it was brought on by the massive viral infection.  Not sure why that makes you think hundreds of thousands of medical and public health workers are all in on some massive scheme. 

Fauci and others have all said that if we're effective at flattening the curve, we'll be accused of going too far. It's foolish and ignorant and take the results and conclude that the response was overblown.  I hate to say this  but in six more months I doubt you'll be able to so gleefully compare the death toll to the flu. We're only 2 months into this virus.


----------



## jeb6294

Dleg said:


> We're only 2 months into this virus.


False...more and more reports have been coming out that show the virus has been in the United States a lot earlier than originally thought. The only difference is that the media didn't create a panic until two months ago.

The problem with COVID is that they are so eager to pin that as cause of death that the numbers will never be accurate. Using your example, yes he died of heart failure and had COVID, but he was also 70 years old, overweight and had high blood pressure. So did the COVID get him or was it his poor overall health? What's to say the exact same thing would have happened if he'd gotten the flu? The only difference is that, if it had been the flu that pushed him over the egde, they would have thrown him in the ground and chalked it up to a heart attack.


----------



## mudpuppy

Dleg said:


> But hey if you don't believe it, go out there and start licking doorknobs to prove that the experts are wrong.


The problem is some people are doing just this and 99% of them will be fine in the end which they think proves they were right.  They have a hard time comprehending anything abstract like statistics.


----------



## Master slacker

Everyone creates their own opinions based on data they have.  

United States deaths in 2017,



> Heart disease - 647,000 deaths (23% of *all* deaths)
> 
> Cancer - 599,000 (21.3%)
> 
> Lower respiratory diseases - 160,000 deaths (5.7%)
> 
> Flu and pneumonia - 55,000 (2%)


Now, if anyone in the total list shown at CDC even *has* COVID and dies --&gt; COVID death.  Essentially, deaths attributed to the "underlying condition" categories from prior years *are being taken away* and applied to COVID numbers this year. 

Can anyone say, with certainty, that someone carrying COVID who dies after falling off a ladder will *NOT* have their cause of death attributed to COVID?  I'm skeptical.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Dleg said:


> Jesus F Christ people. The virus is real and this is not a massive conspiracy to impose socialism on the US. If this virus was going around last October and November, it would have been obvious from the number of people in the ICU and on ventilators. Which was not the case. How do I know that?  Because the US and the rest of the world have robust public health surveillance systems that have been in place for decades (a century??) designed to detect waves of unexplained flu-like illnesses.
> 
> A lack of information is not indicative of a conspiracy. It is simply because this is all new, and even the smart people don't know everything about this virus yet.
> 
> But hey if you don't believe it, go out there and start licking doorknobs to prove that the experts are wrong.


I agree that there is no conspiracy, and that the virus is real.

BUT: I'm getting sick of our leaders (left/right wing alike) taking advantage of the situation for their own personal gains. Where that leads is scarier to me than this stupid virus.


----------



## Road Guy

I think for most of the country the nationwide shutdown and forcing 30+Million into unemployment wasnt really worth it. 

I think we could have implemented some other rules other than the "lockdowns" that would have produced similar results - except for places like NYC where people enjoy living stacked up on top of each other.

These are the #'s to date from my wifes hospital:

850 covid admits

87 died

560 discharged &lt; 24 hours

So far the hospital says they have lost $57M since March (loss of regular work,elective surgeries etc) and this is after getting $50M from the feds and another $5M loan to "pay doctors" cause you know you can send techs and nurses home without pay, but gotta pay them fucking doctors...


----------



## Dleg

Hey I understand denial. I was sick in January and hope it was COVID,  too. I had a flu like illness in October,  and would also like to think that was COVID,  but it's highly unlikely. But even if we can take the serum antibodies test results at face value, only 20% of New Yorkers had been infected, and less than 5% of the residents of Santa Clara county in California. The virus has a shitload more fuel to burn through before this is all over.

We're engineers so we may not be experts or even amateurs when it comes to interpreting epidemiological data. But we're not bad at numbers in general.  Take a look at these graphs and think about two things,  purely mathematically: if this kicked off in October, without any flattening measures at all  why didn't the curves take off and peak in January ? And for those eager to relieve their fears by comparing the numbers to other annual causes of deaths,  do some mental curve completion (and estimation of the area under the curve) and see if what you come up with gives you  the warm and fuzzies. 

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-TRENDS/dgkvlgkrkpb/index.html

Edit: don't forget this is confirmed cases, so it's valid to use the case fatality rate to estimate deaths.  Currently that's at 6.2% for the USA.


----------



## Dleg

But clearly there is no convincing some of you.

I will make one final observation before returning to memes and dark humor, which has helped me get through the past two months with some semblance of sanity. And that is that the State and Local governments were largely left to decide how to deal with this situation on their own.  Despite the advice and statistics provided by the federal government, decisions on what to close down were left up to your local and state elected officials.  The feds for the most part limited themselves to providing technical support and resources. 

It's super easy to sit at home in quarantine and armchair quarterback this whole thing. But it's interesting that the vast majority of state and local governments, conservative and liberal, took similar mitigation measures. My takeaway is that when a person or body of people is placed in a position where they are forced to make decisions that will affect how many people will live or die, whether they are conservative or liberal, they tend to lean toward the more protective side. I would guess from that, that the majority of you would, too, if it was your signature on the orders.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Platypus Engineer

I never said virus was not real. I think there are civil liberties issues that need to be addressed. For example, what if a lockdown for safety reasons had been imposed after Sept 11 attacks. That could still be in effect now because of threat of terrorism.

You cant completely eliminate risk. Even after vaccine, people still will get sick and die from virus.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

I was expecting that as other retail stores open the chaos at Lowes and Home Depot would die down, but I think its even worse!

I went around 7 last night (Sunday) to grab a few things I needed and the line at both was literally wrapped around the side of the building to the back?

Also I needed some new gym shoes (Metcons baby) so I was waiting until our normal place opened up to spend some money with them, only to find out they sold most of there supply on curb sales and wont have my size for 2 weeks so I ended up ordering online anyways /)


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> I was expecting that as other retail stores open the chaos at Lowes and Home Depot would die down, but I think its even worse!
> 
> I went around 7 last night (Sunday) to grab a few things I needed and the line at both was literally wrapped around the side of the building to the back?
> 
> Also I needed some new gym shoes (Metcons baby) so I was waiting until our normal place opened up to spend some money with them, only to find out they sold most of there supply on curb sales and wont have my size for 2 weeks so I ended up ordering online anyways /)


As stuff re-opens more people feel that it is safe to go out and shop.   Looks like MA is going to start to open things.  I may wait a couple weeks and see what happens locally with new cases.  I'm in one of the top 20 counties in the country for confirmed cases and we have as many as Japan.


----------



## Master slacker

I stood in line at Cabela's for 20 minutes yesterday.


----------



## Road Guy

see I can wait for a "fun" store like Cabela's or Northern Hardware, but not to buy toilet guts for something I dont really want to do anyways  

We made our every other Sunday at 5:30 PM trip to Costco (when no one was there) we have tons of chicken and cow products but needed eggs and milk and bread - was nice to shop with the store to ourselves for the most part


----------



## Supe

BJ's was the most crowded I have seen it since all of this started, when I went yesterday around noon-ish.  Crowded still means I waited about 30 seconds for a register.  The line for them to check the receipt was longer than the register wait.


----------



## Supe

For some reason, all the beef had vanished, including the huge slabs/cuts that had been available from day 1.  Some chicken made a return, but it looks like the factories are skimping on packaging right now.  Limited selections - boneless skinless breasts, and whole bone-in thighs only, but everything is in a big plastic bag now with a simplified Purdue logo in lieu of the individually packaged portions and foam containers.

Produce was still bad though.  I am dreaming of the day they get those Tropicana oranges back in stock.


----------



## Road Guy

its weird here (other than the first 2 weeks) the produce section here has been like normal - 

I did notice that Costco doesnt have as much of their normal summer stuff out ( paddle boards, pool noodles, camping junk) seems like 25% of what they would have normally this time of year, they expanded there clothes section - 

I guess they are adjusting to the closed pools and such..


----------



## snickerd3

Even while home on maternity leave with both kiddos, I've never NOT left town like this.  Haven't gone farther than the shopping center near the interstate.  Gonna need some retail therapy and deep tissue massage when this is all said and done.


----------



## Baconator

Supe said:


> For some reason, all the beef had vanished, including the huge slabs/cuts that had been available from day 1.  Some chicken made a return, but it looks like the factories are skimping on packaging right now.  Limited selections - boneless skinless breasts, and whole bone-in thighs only, but everything is in a big plastic bag now with a simplified Purdue logo in lieu of the individually packaged portions and foam containers.
> 
> Produce was still bad though.  I am dreaming of the day they get those Tropicana oranges back in stock.


----------



## Dleg

I haven't been able to get into our Home Depot for a few weeks now. Like RG said, it has gotten worse now that the lockdown is lifted. This weekend the line wrapped around to the back of the store, AND it was raining. F that. I went by yesterday during a work day and it was just about the same. 

The crazy lines here are at the banks and the post offices. Everyone is waiting for / cashing their stimulus checks, I guess. I saw a line of cars almost a mile long yesterday at lunch for one bank.


----------



## ruggercsc

Dleg said:


> I haven't been able to get into our Home Depot for a few weeks now. Like RG said, it has gotten worse now that the lockdown is lifted. This weekend the line wrapped around to the back of the store, AND it was raining. F that. I went by yesterday during a work day and it was just about the same.
> 
> The crazy lines here are at the banks and the post offices. Everyone is waiting for / cashing their stimulus checks, I guess. I saw a line of cars almost a mile long yesterday at lunch for one bank.


They have closed almost all of the bank drive thru's around here and make you go inside.  Guess they need to rethink that strategy now.


----------



## Dleg

I don't know why more people haven't moved to online banking. I've been doing that for years now with USAA, and the only times I have physically entered a bank has been to get a mortgage.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

I think the last time I was inside a bank was about a year ago for a cashiers check.  Paycheck is direct deposit, pay bills online, use ATM for cash.

I went to Lowe's by my house at about 1230 pm Saturday, it was packed. Plus there were three people tying up an entire aisle waiting for help, and they had a non service dog in the store. Line in garden center was all the way to back.  Only had one of two self checkouts open, and were cleaning after every transaction.

Even before this, I generally  try to avoid any retail location between noon and 6 pm on weekends.


----------



## Supe

I haven't been into a bank in over 10 years.  With stuff like Zelle payments (bank to bank) and check deposits via app, there's just no need to.


----------



## jeb6294

Dleg said:


> The crazy lines here are at the banks and the post offices. Everyone is waiting for / cashing their stimulus checks, I guess. I saw a line of cars almost a mile long yesterday at lunch for one bank.


Yeah, I was getting a "we can't do that right now" error when I checked the IRS site about whether or not I was getting a stimulus check. Forgot that I had to pay a bit in 2018 so they didn't have my direct deposit info. Put that in and immediately told me I was getting a check, how much it would be for and when it would be there. Had money in my account about a week later.

On the rare occasion that I do get a paper check, I just use the bank's app to take a picture and *BAM* money in the bank without getting off the couch.


----------



## thekzieg

FYI - I and at least three of my coworkers have had our SSN used to fraudulently file an unemployment claim in WA. Even though I'm working and not collecting unemployment right now I tried to create an account on the unemployment website (because my one coworker had alerted everyone about her SSN being used) and sure enough my SSN was linked to some random email address that wasn't mine.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

thekzieg said:


> FYI - I and at least three of my coworkers have had our SSN used to fraudulently file an unemployment claim in WA. Even though I'm working and not collecting unemployment right now I tried to create an account on the unemployment website (because my one coworker had alerted everyone about her SSN being used) and sure enough my SSN was linked to some random email address that wasn't mine.


Yeah, not good. I created an account just last week to prevent that from occurring.


----------



## Road Guy

how do you find out if its being used?


----------



## blybrook PE

Now that’s pretty scary.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> how do you find out if its being used?


WA’s sign up website informs you if the SSN you entered is associated with another email when you create your account.


----------



## snickerd3

still on track to enter phase 3 next week.  then another 28 days before schools and daycares can reopen with acceptable guidelines in place.  so I should be back at the office by July!


----------



## Dleg

blybrook PE said:


> Now that’s pretty scary.


I am hoping that those identity protection services will flag it if it happens. I have a free protection service provided to me after my work info was hacked/ stolen a few years ago, and I get regular report by email letting me know that no one has stolen my identity. Yet.


----------



## blybrook PE

I’ve probably have the same service thru work. No alerts yet.


----------



## thekzieg

Yeah, I had someone use my info to open a bank account in February so I had already alerted the FTC and set up monitoring all that, but apparently it doesn’t flag unemployment?


----------



## Dleg

Well that's not good.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

thekzieg said:


> FYI - I and at least three of my coworkers have had our SSN used to fraudulently file an unemployment claim in WA. Even though I'm working and not collecting unemployment right now I tried to create an account on the unemployment website (because my one coworker had alerted everyone about her SSN being used) and sure enough my SSN was linked to some random email address that wasn't mine.


At the risk of being Capt Obvious, it sounds like your job's personnel files have been hacked


----------



## snickerd3

mr snick's info was stolen a couple years ago with that major big box store security breach.  It got really bad, the only way some of the companies would talk to him was through lifelock..thankfully he didn't cancel after the free 2 yrs the bigboxs gave because that is when the major hacking started with the stolen info.  He  put the permanent freeze on the 3 major creditscore companies last year and he still gets notes from att/tmoblie/verizon about phones in his name or credit card denials because they couldn't verify.  They don't always use the major 3.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> mr snick's info was stolen a couple years ago with that major big box store security breach.  It got really bad, the only way some of the companies would talk to him was through lifelock..thankfully he didn't cancel after the free 2 yrs the bigboxs gave because that is when the major hacking started with the stolen info.  He  put the permanent freeze on the 3 major creditscore companies last year and he still gets notes from att/tmoblie/verizon about phones in his name or credit card denials because they couldn't verify.  They don't always use the major 3.


After the big box hack, I went to primarily cash transactions for retail purchases. Nobody ever had identity stolen paying cash.

For online purchases, I use a traditional credit card since the fraud protections are better than with bank card.

One question I always had about big box hack, was why was all that information being stored.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

last summer I was dicing up a bunch of jalapeno peppers we had grown and my MIL ( who was unfortunately both there, and helping) looked at me funny when I was wearing those blue latex gloves to cut them in. later on not so much.........


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


>


Nice to see strippers are doing their part to help out in a time of crisis


----------



## jeb6294

thekzieg said:


> Yeah, I had someone use my info to open a bank account in February so I had already alerted the FTC and set up monitoring all that, but apparently it doesn’t flag unemployment?


Went to visit the wife when they had her working doing COVID testing in Bethlehem, PA. Don’t do a lot of interstate driving so I’m not in the habit of checking for skimmers at gas pumps. Apparently I was gotten on the way home because a $53 charge showed up from Amazon that wasn’t mine. Fortunately it was a prepaid debit card so they didn’t have my actual bank info, but I wasn’t very optimistic about getting my $$$ back. Called Amazon and the card and I got refunded though. Amazon looked it up and there were actually 3, but I had already turned off the card on the app.

Fast forward to a few days after I got home and the Amazon guy drops off a set of wireless earbuds. Looked it up and, sure enough, they are right around $50. Guess they forgot to tell them that, if you’re going to steal someone’s info, you don’t have the stuff shipped to their address. And BTW, the earbuds are really nice.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## wilheldp_PE

Road Guy said:


> last summer I was dicing up a bunch of jalapeno peppers we had grown and my MIL ( who was unfortunately both there, and helping) looked at me funny when I was wearing those blue latex gloves to cut them in. later on not so much.........


My buddy grows tomatoes and all sorts of crazy peppers (Carolina Reapers, Scorpions, etc.).  He usually gives me a couple of "salsa kits" ever year with a bunch of tomatoes and peppers.  I cut up a bunch of peppers for salsa without gloves on.  Washed my hands at least twice during the salsa making process.  Took a piss about an hour later and burned for about 2 days.


----------



## Road Guy

^- that is exactly why I started wearing the gloves 

We end up growing a ton of peppers and we freeze them and use them throughout the winter - fairly handy to have around, but yeah they can burn..


----------



## ruggercsc

wilheldp_PE said:


> My buddy grows tomatoes and all sorts of crazy peppers (Carolina Reapers, Scorpions, etc.).  He usually gives me a couple of "salsa kits" ever year with a bunch of tomatoes and peppers.  I cut up a bunch of peppers for salsa without gloves on.  Washed my hands at least twice during the salsa making process.  Took a piss about an hour later and burned for about 2 days.


I made that mistake after picking and cutting up habanero peppers from our garden.  I still wince thinking about it while my Significant Other still laughs about it.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Platypus Engineer

wilheldp_PE said:


> My buddy grows tomatoes and all sorts of crazy peppers (Carolina Reapers, Scorpions, etc.).  He usually gives me a couple of "salsa kits" ever year with a bunch of tomatoes and peppers.  I cut up a bunch of peppers for salsa without gloves on.  Washed my hands at least twice during the salsa making process.  Took a piss about an hour later and burned for about 2 days.






ruggercsc said:


> I made that mistake after picking and cutting up habanero peppers from our garden.  I still wince thinking about it while my Significant Other still laughs about it.


First time he ate crabs, my nephew almost made the mistake of not washing his hands before taking a piss. Old Bay stings too,

Were gonna teach him a life lesson, but my brother chickened out.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Master slacker

wilheldp_PE said:


> Washed my hands at least twice during the salsa making process.  Took a piss about an hour later and burned for about 2 days.


Don't put your d**k in that


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

Dleg said:


>


They also never got off the island.....


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> They also never got off the island.....


Yes they did! More than once, too. It happened in the sequel films in the 70s:


----------



## jeb6294

Dleg said:


> Yes they did! More than once, too. It happened in the sequel films in the 70s:


...and promptly got shipwrecked, again, on the exact same island they had just gotten off of.


----------



## Master slacker

11 years after the beloved series ended (stranded on the island), it took a movie to get them off the island... only to return...


----------



## wilheldp_PE

jeb6294 said:


> ...and promptly got shipwrecked, again, on the exact same island they had just gotten off of.


That's the "second wave."


----------



## jeb6294

jeb6294 said:


> Went to visit the wife when they had her working doing COVID testing in Bethlehem, PA.


And just an FYI, Bethlehem, PA is a pretty neat little town. The old steel mill is still there but has been turned into a recreational area. If they’re still doing it, there’s a big music festival being staged there in August - Rob Zombie, Poison, Shinedown, Darius Rucker, etc.Even with all the current nonsense, it was still a nice place to walk around.


----------



## Road Guy

^- that looks straight up out of a Lou Reed song!


----------



## jeb6294

Some of the old buildings they still have around would make ridiculously cool venues for outdoor events if they would do a little rehab. If I ever find out they do tours of the place, I may go back even though the wife has moved on to a new location.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E

I hate this dampenic


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> View attachment 17723


So wrong.  Is that bud light?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## jeb6294

So the wife *was* in Colorado. She was there long enough to get the mobile medical unit set up and running and they let her come home...for about 4 days. Originally, they were going to let her hang out at home for a week or two before shipping her off to a Tyson processing plant in BFE Illinois but a call from her manager on Sunday changed that. Wednesday she'll be headed to a different Tyson plant in BFE Texas.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> And just an FYI, Bethlehem, PA is a pretty neat little town. The old steel mill is still there but has been turned into a recreational area. If they’re still doing it, there’s a big music festival being staged there in August - Rob Zombie, Poison, Shinedown, Darius Rucker, etc.Even with all the current nonsense, it was still a nice place to walk around.
> 
> View attachment 17687
> 
> 
> View attachment 17690


Closed in 1995, and probably completely tanked local economy.

At my current job, went to pipe foundry a few years ago to see ductile iron pipe manufactured. One of the few industrial facilities I had never been to. Watching the pipe get made was an amazing process.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## akwooly

Dleg said:


> View attachment 17682


I have two sets.


----------



## Supe

akwooly said:


> I have two sets.


Balls and butt?


----------



## JayKay PE

Supe said:


> akwooly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have two sets.
> 
> 
> 
> Balls and butt-hole?
Click to expand...

fix'd


----------



## csb

Where am I supposed to Buy America if hippies like jeb are turning steel plants into music festivals?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

I think they got her hair wrong...


----------



## JayKay PE

They def got the hair wrong.  It's supposed to be more like a duck-butt.


----------



## Master slacker

I've always likened it to a donkey kicked head


----------



## jeb6294

csb said:


> Where am I supposed to Buy America if hippies like jeb are turning steel plants into music festivals?


----------



## snickerd3




----------



## Dleg

Well it was nice knowing you all.


Monkeys steal coronavirus blood samples in India


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-monkey-idUSKBN2351KV?utm_source=Facebook&amp;utm_medium=Social


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Dleg said:


> Well it was nice knowing you all.
> 
> 
> Monkeys steal coronavirus blood samples in India
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-monkey-idUSKBN2351KV?utm_source=Facebook&amp;utm_medium=Social


Lockdown #2, 1 month from today. Calling it now.


----------



## Road Guy

That story is dated March 22...

But still...


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> That story is dated March 22...


I think the photo is dated 3/22...


----------



## Road Guy

My bad... I still ain’t going back on the inside...


----------



## Dleg




----------



## P-E




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

So based on some of the posts in this thread, now have to worry about murder monkeys and murder cats.

Instead of fireworks, have a plague of locusts on July 4.


----------



## snickerd3

they already cancelled july 4th activities here.  No fireworks


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> they already cancelled july 4th activities here.  No fireworks


I usually watch the ones from DC on PBS. Half hour a year I watch PBS. Those will probably still happen


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> So based on some of the posts in this thread, now have to worry about murder monkeys and murder cats.
> 
> Instead of fireworks, have a plague of locusts on July 4.


Oh, the plague of locusts is coming...
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/23/861582233/theyre-back-millions-of-cicadas-expected-to-emerge-this-year


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

Just for @Road Guy


----------



## Dleg

Our local beaches reopened this weekend.


----------



## Road Guy

Is the line “you maniacs” or “you bastards”?


----------



## Dleg

""You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! Goddamn you all to hell!""


----------



## Roarbark

Dleg said:


> View attachment 17651


Heyyy, this is an adapted version of the web-comic my profile pic is from


----------



## jeb6294

Got an email from the boss asking for input about returning to the office sometime after the 4th of July holiday. Says they're looking into starting the return to work unless you're high risk,  but no medical backup required. Basically, throw an excuse at them and you don't have to go back. To be honest, I wouldn't mind getting back into the office because I just started in January so I was there for about two months before all this started and it's really hard learning all this new stuff via telework.

The biggest issue I'm going to have is transportation/parking. I take the bus to work because it's paid for and it's really convenient. At last check, the bus I take to/from work is not running...it's an express route from the park-and-ride a couple miles from our house to downtown. Gov't will pay for public transportation, but not parking.


----------



## Road Guy

back in the office and its a royal pain in the ass to be honest.. maybe there is an adjustment period, but defin more productive at home - but maybe I just miss my executive bathroom


----------



## snickerd3

I made the trip into the office last friday to get hard copies of the more recent submittals for review.  It was eerie.


----------



## Violator

So did the murder hornets decide this wasn't their year?


----------



## Dleg

They're being re-engineered to spread the Rona.


----------



## Road Guy

Does anyone really miss baseball?  Since I am making the commute to work I end up back on sports talk radio some (for some reason I cant listen to it outside the car so I havent been paying attention) but I guess they want to try and do a 90 day season or something?  I suppose its good for the team and tv to make some money but if you cant go to the games whats the point?

One would think they could let maybe 1/4 of the stadium attend and keep everyone spaced out 10 seats or something??


----------



## Supe

Not in the least.  Anything between the BCS Championship and the start of football in the fall is just dead space to me.


----------



## Road Guy

I may feel different when football season rolls around - that will certainly be strange without, since its also engraved into Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years..


----------



## csb

I miss baseball, but I'm also into a lot of other boring things like engineering and bicycle touring.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

csb said:


> bicycle touring


NOT BORING. EPIC!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> Not in the least.  Anything between the BCS Championship and the start of football in the fall is just dead space to me.


I am that way once hockey playoffs end until football starts. about 6 to 8 week period in summer is my sports dead zone


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> I made the trip into the office last friday to get hard copies of the more recent submittals for review.  It was eerie.


I went to my office yesterday to pick up some tools I need for an inspection tomorrow, First time in about three months. 

Very quiet, but on plus side, getting elevator was fast.


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> Does anyone really miss baseball?


Definitely. The local Fox Sports network has been airing some of the games from last season. Not sure about other people, but I've really liked it because I was there working for almost every game last season so I didn't get to see a lot of the games unless I was in a spot where they had a TV.

Even when they were playing last year, it was funny, you could tell people were ready for something different towards the end of the season because the TV's that we could control would be turned to NFL games instead of the Reds game. If I was at one of the clubhouses, the players would even come out to get updates on the game.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Definitely. The local Fox Sports network has been airing some of the games from last season. Not sure about other people, but I've really liked it because I was there working for almost every game last season so I didn't get to see a lot of the games unless I was in a spot where they had a TV.
> 
> Even when they were playing last year, it was funny, you could tell people were ready for something different towards the end of the season because the TV's that we could control would be turned to NFL games instead of the Reds game. If I was at one of the clubhouses, the players would even come out to get updates on the game.


Nearly every other sport has sharp ratings decline once football season starts. Very noticeable in NASCAR.  I never understood why NBA and NHL dont wait until December to start seasons. College football isn;t as prominent then.


----------



## jeb6294

Was watching some "reality show" the other day and it was the end of the season wrap up and all the people from the season were on there yelling at each other via Zoom. The host said something to the one lady that she was glad she was okay. Lady says that right after the end of taping for the season, she got the flu and ended up in a coma on a vent for like a month. Host asks if she was tested for COVID and she hadn't because it was December 2nd so COVID wasn't a thing yet, but now her doctor is pretty sure that's what it was. Lady lives in Las Vegas.

Certainly not scientific at all, but still...


----------



## Road Guy

Id love to make a fall vegas trip, but i think I will have to put that out of my mind for a while too... the pics of people playing blackjack with the dealer behind plexi glass, everone wearing masks, just didnt look all that fun...


----------



## leggo PE

Road Guy said:


> Does anyone really miss baseball?


*YES.*


----------



## leggo PE

I'm a baseball and NBA girl. I will watch football during its season, but by far and large, I will take a baseball or a basketball game over a football game any day.

That being said, GO NINERS.


----------



## snickerd3

miss watching my kid play baseball and soccer...watching the prof versions not so much


----------



## mudpuppy

Road Guy said:


> Id love to make a fall vegas trip, but i think I will have to put that out of my mind for a while too... the pics of people playing blackjack with the dealer behind plexi glass, everone wearing masks, just didnt look all that fun...




I've been following the Vegas stuff like a hawk, and many reports are only 5% to 20% of people are wearing masks.  Either way it doesn't sound like fun to me (despite my avatar, I'm not willing to risk infection for BJ.)


----------



## Dleg

mudpuppy said:


> I'm not willing to risk infection for BJ.


:eyebrows:  

Good for you, it's always hard to think objectively about the risk of infection when BJ is at stake.


----------



## Road Guy

I’m tempted to look up the budget to see how much we have paid these fools the last 30 years but I am afraid what I’ll find.....


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Most of this has been basically throwing bull excrement at wall to see what sticks.


----------



## Dleg

Science has progressed tremendously since the 1918 influenza pandemic.  The microorganism that caused it was unknown at the time. That influenza is caused by a virus wasn't discovered until the 1930s, and a vaccine wasn't available until the 1940s.  The actual strain of H1N1 that caused the 1918 pandemic was not fully identified until 1997.

The SARS-2 coronavirus that causes COVID-19 was identified and fully sequenced within 2 months of its first known emergence, and vaccine candidates were developed within days of that. Even Anthony Fauci believes that more than one of them will work and be available around the end of the year.

But knowing how the virus affects the human body and spreads can still only be determined by observation, and statistical analysis of those observations. Unfortunately good statistics requires a lot of observations, and even more unfortunately these observations are often in the form of deaths, and especially rare outlier deaths that indicate some of the more unusual ways the virus kills, which take even more time to accumulate.

And until a vaccine is available, the only way to reduce the spread of infection and deaths is through the age old practices of isolation, quarantine, and social distancing.  The effectiveness of certain specific measures such as masks, surface disinfection, eating in restaurants etc. can also be measured only after the accumulation of even more data, often much more subtle and difficult to obtain than deaths.

But hey, yeah, let's just throw away our public health infrastructure because their experts haven't been 100 percent correct on a brand new disease and in an instantaneous fashion, or have had to go back and revised recommendations after more data has been collected. Things worked just fine back before science, right?


----------



## P-E

With you @dleq A lot we don’t fully know yet and we are a long way from being done with this.  If we get a vaccine by the end of the year, it will be like the modern day accomplishment of landing on the moon.


----------



## Road Guy

Sounds like excuses to me..

//content.invisioncic.com/r86644/emoticons/default_wink.png

But Imagine if engineers were allowed the same mistake tolerances as scientists.....

Oh damn..... guess that bridge design model didn’t work... oh well let’s build it again a little stronger this time...

30M people were put out of work. I think they deserve some heat for that.

They didn’t really develop a vaccine for the last round of SARS they (scientists) just got lucky cause it killed people so quick there wasn’t a chance for it to spread... but I am sure the scientist think they did something..

And if there is a cure or vaccine it won’t be developed by the cdc but some private company. The CDC will be like the worthless politician or government manager that shows up to the ribbon cutting ceremony for a project they didn’t do any work on and gets to hold a shovel..


----------



## Dleg

The role of the CDC and your state and local public health departments is mostly in providing the science-based measures that can be taken to control the spread of disease and reduce illness and death. Vaccine and other medical countermeasures are mostly developed by the private sector, often with huge investments in tax dollars, or promises of government mandates such as vaccinations.  Despite the many unknowns and having to base decisions on assumptions and other similar diseases, there is no doubt that these measures saved and can still save hundreds of thousands of lives: the mathematics of unchecked disease spread is pretty straightforward.  It's the job of our elected leaders, not the public health agencies, to balance these measures with job losses and essentially decide how many deaths they are willing to stomach in order to preserve the economy (that decision is incompatible with the Hippocratic oath and the ethics of most public health professions, even engineers).  That's a shit sandwich no matter how you approach it.

And I think we can both agree that the behavior of engineering materials is a lot simpler to predict, with great accuracy.  But the engineering analogy to what you are accusing the public health professionals of is spending too much to make the bridge safe, when it would be possible to save a lot of money if we are willing to let that bridge collapse and take a certain amount of unlucky people with it.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

I am mainly just being a dick Dleg..

But... (&amp; I was right I shouldn't have looked it up) The last 10 years the CDC has spent $100 Billion dollars of our money.. &amp; I mean seriously the Flu shot isn't even a sure thing.....And I still have to pay for it!!

I still feel like we need to send in the Bobs


----------



## Supe

The whole quarantine effort was destined to fail in the US.  One of the largest countries in the world with the most personal freedoms and least oppressive regimes - there is no part of that which even remotely hints at successful isolation efforts.  Even the public safety argument wasn't clear cut - are you really saving lives when layoffs/unemployment costs millions of citizens their employer-provided healthcare benefits?  Create homelessness?  Create enough unrest that everyone is on a hair trigger?

I can't really fault the outrage it's caused, because the elected officials continue to pander instead of picking a side and sticking to it.  No groups!  Except we'll just threaten you with a fine and won't enforce it.  No public gatherings!  Except we'll allow certain protests and won't even require the government employees working at the protest to follow our own COVID protocols.  No public events!  Except we'll allow NASCAR or other big moneymakers, but then prohibit political rivals to do the same.  How will we fix it?  We'll threaten to go back to the same quarantine conditions that statistically weren't working in the first place...


----------



## txjennah PE

Dleg said:


> Science has progressed tremendously since the 1918 influenza pandemic.  The microorganism that caused it was unknown at the time. That influenza is caused by a virus wasn't discovered until the 1930s, and a vaccine wasn't available until the 1940s.  The actual strain of H1N1 that caused the 1918 pandemic was not fully identified until 1997.
> 
> The SARS-2 coronavirus that causes COVID-19 was identified and fully sequenced within 2 months of its first known emergence, and vaccine candidates were developed within days of that. Even Anthony Fauci believes that more than one of them will work and be available around the end of the year.
> 
> But knowing how the virus affects the human body and spreads can still only be determined by observation, and statistical analysis of those observations. Unfortunately good statistics requires a lot of observations, and even more unfortunately these observations are often in the form of deaths, and especially rare outlier deaths that indicate some of the more unusual ways the virus kills, which take even more time to accumulate.
> 
> And until a vaccine is available, the only way to reduce the spread of infection and deaths is through the age old practices of isolation, quarantine, and social distancing.  The effectiveness of certain specific measures such as masks, surface disinfection, eating in restaurants etc. can also be measured only after the accumulation of even more data, often much more subtle and difficult to obtain than deaths.
> 
> But hey, yeah, let's just throw away our public health infrastructure because their experts haven't been 100 percent correct on a brand new disease and in an instantaneous fashion, or have had to go back and revised recommendations after more data has been collected. Things worked just fine back before science, right?


----------



## Road Guy

^ for $100 Billion they dont get a clap from me.. (maybe the CDC didnt run the original model that said millions were going to die) 

 I wouldn't say the "lockdown"  failed, but I think it was obvious pretty quick it wasn't going to kill millions and as soon as the curve began to be flattened more states could have gone the route of Georgia and let people "work", feed their families, pay bills, etc..

I really think you keep the mass gatherings like sports / movies / concerts on the no go list for a while - but it seems like most everything else will be able to function with different rules.  It sucks for the regular joes working in the "entertainment" industry but who really gives a shit in the long run if all of Hollywood and these over hyped athletes never work again?


----------



## Violator




----------



## Road Guy

I think it should be pointed out that I made this meme while leading a myteams meeting with my video on


----------



## Dleg

I don't think anyone at CDC is doing victory laps. If anything, I suspect that most of them are pretty embarrassed about how the US has handled this pandemic. And no, what they're primarily embarrassed about is not their agency's performance.


----------



## Dleg

If you want to see how the models work, play around with this:

http://gabgoh.github.io/COVID/index.html?CFR=0.02&amp;D_hospital_lag=5&amp;D_incbation=5.2&amp;D_infectious=2.9&amp;D_recovery_mild=11.1&amp;D_recovery_severe=7.75&amp;I0=1&amp;InterventionAmt=0.8&amp;InterventionTime=25.333333333333336&amp;P_SEVERE=0.2&amp;R0=2.6&amp;Time_to_death=32&amp;logN=12.12

I can't seem to save the adjusted population for the whole country, so you will have to do that yourself.  The rest of the parameters were based on the state of knowledge back at the beginning of April, by a local doctor on a government advisory board here. Not the CDC. 

The main parameter to play with for simulating social distancing is the basic reproduction rate Ro. Starting point is 2.6, averaged across the population.  It can go as high as 14 (Princess Diamond  cruise ship, USS Theodore Roosevelt seems to have pushed that to around 20), or less than 1 for effective social distancing measures. 

The case fatality rate is set at 2.0, although it is currently running at 5.5 in the US. You can play with that, too. 

See what you can get.


----------



## Dleg

https://local.theonion.com/city-enters-phase-4-of-pretending-coronavirus-over-1844037065


----------



## snickerd3

just an afternoon funny


----------



## Dleg

So true:


----------



## Road Guy

I think the worst part of this so far is my kids now only speak in "Tik Tok" language - if you know what that is then you know what I mean, if you dont then be thankful!!


----------



## leggo PE

Road Guy said:


> I think the worst part of this so far is my kids now only speak in "Tik Tok" language - if you know what that is then you know what I mean, if you dont then be thankful!!


Have they gotten you to do any of the dances yet?


----------



## Dleg

Anthony Fauci in an excellent interview covering all of the topics and concerns above, in particular America's lack of trust in science, plus more including life as an elderly sex symbol:

https://www.hhs.gov/podcasts/learning-curve/learning-curve-05-dr-anthony-fauci-science-is-truth.html?c


----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Minneapolis police built a wall around their building.  As an engineer...I just...please don't.


----------



## Supe

I've never seen anyone grout using plywood and expanding foam before!


----------



## JayKay PE

I personally enjoy the lack of support on the corner, where it's just hanging over the edge.  I mean, these have grooves specifically so the blocks lock, and they somehow, _somehow_, installed them so they don't.  It's actually amazing, tbh.


----------



## csb

It reminds me of this:


----------



## JayKay PE

@csb, except that is structurally sound.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

They should expect a visit from code enforcement. That looks like it could hurt someone.


----------



## kevo_55

Code enforcement in MN is a joke.

Just saying.....


----------



## Supe

How is that razor wire even attached?


----------



## JayKay PE

Very precariously perched on top.


----------



## csb

By more spray foam? 

I've had to tell police officers to their faces that I don't think that they can run a traffic signal better than a controller and some detection. I didn't realize that I should have just listed all the civil engineering things they should do. "Don't go cleaning your own waste water!"


----------



## Dleg

Holy crap, is the the next thing for 2020?


At least 83 people killed during lightning strikes across Indian state


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/india/lightning-strikes-india-bihar-intl/index.html

(CNN)At least 83 people were killed during lightning strikes in the north-eastern Indian state of Bihar on Thursday, according to the state government.

....

In comparison, there were 20 deaths blamed on lightning in the US in 2019, according to the National Weather Service.


----------



## Dleg

Whew! Dodged that bullet...


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Ble_PE

Dleg said:


> Whew! Dodged that bullet...
> 
> View attachment 18021


"Large Penis - Positive'  :Locolaugh:


----------



## jeb6294

Looks like MLB is about a done deal. Got an email the other day talking about required training before spring training/games start. Not sure what kind of season it’s going to be because they said for now it’s only going to be security and grounds crew, i.e. games played in an empty stadium.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> It reminds me of this:


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> View attachment 18034


OH CRAP


----------



## jeb6294

Had our “resuming operations” training at GABP this evening. The short version is, the second any ball player steps foot in the stadium, the whole place is locked down to keep contact to a minimum. No fans at all, heard it may just be non-playing players. After hearing some of the shit they give each other in the dugouts, I think that may actually end up being hilarious. Very limited media...only 35 passes each game...and they’re cordoned off in their own area. Ownership is allowed in but they’re also staying in their suites.

While I still think it’s a bit much, I can see why they’re doing it. Resuming baseball is a big step. If Joe Security Guy catches something, meh, not a big news event, but if someone like Joey Votto comes down with it, it’ll be national news and it’ll probably put an end to the season.


----------



## Dleg

If they can run professional sports safely, that's a huge boost to morale for everyone. So I am good with whatever it takes!


----------



## Road Guy

I am more worried about Joe Security Guard getting it than Joe Millionaire asshole professional sports player to be honest..


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I am more worried about Joe Security Guard getting it than Joe Millionaire asshole professional sports player to be honest..


As said Joe Security Guard, i agree, but I don't think I would get much news coverage.


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> As said Joe Security Guard, i agree, but I don't think I would get much news coverage.


...you will if you cough on a professional sports player.  Live in infamy.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

And in a first, I have to get a permit application notarized. Really hard when almost your entire organization is working from home.


----------



## snickerd3

Platypus Engineer said:


> And in a first, I have to get a permit application notarized. Really hard when almost your entire organization is working from home.


a local bank?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> a local bank?


No it is for doing work along a right of way for a toll road. Toll roads are run by a completely different agency than the non toll roads, and of course different rules


----------



## Road Guy

I think she meant can you get a notary from a bank (Kroger will have a notary also a lot of times) to sign it if you cant get someone from your work?

I actually used nextdoor to find a notary to get something done for work a few years ago..


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> I think she meant can you get a notary from a bank (Kroger will have a notary also a lot of times) to sign it if you cant get someone from your work?
> 
> I actually used nextdoor to find a notary to get something done for work a few years ago..


my bad I misunderstood. Somebody from my general counsels will be at office tomorrow, am meeting them there to take care of it.

I am fried between end of fiscal year nonsense and waiting for announcement on how long work from home will continue. Was supposed to announce yesterday, but didnt. My guess is they will wait until Thursday afternoon, since Friday is holiday (observed July 4).

Rumor is work from home will continue until Tuesday after Labor Day, that will be almost six months.


----------



## aog

Would you rather:

a.) work from home? 

b.) work at the office while wearing a mask?


----------



## Supe

Work from home 100%.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

aog said:


> Would you rather:
> 
> a.) work from home?
> 
> b.) work at the office while wearing a mask?


If I had to wear a mask 100% of the time, I would pick WFH hands down.


----------



## Ble_PE

Supe said:


> Work from home 100%.


x1000!


----------



## Road Guy

work from office and cherry pic some days to WFH (is what I have been doing)

We are only wearing masks when up from your desk - not bad now but currently we dont have even 25% of the office back yet.


----------



## blybrook PE

Work from home - saves nearly 2 hours travel time that I can use to get projects around the house finished. Not to mention fuel cost savings.

While I still have to travel for work, or work in an environment where a respirator is required, I'm used to wearing it. BUT if I don't have to, I'm not going to.


----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## Road Guy

I still wish I could find where I saw the mask that just said Population Control 2020...


----------



## Supe

NC reporting today as highest number of confirmed cases.  Coincidentally enough, this comes two weeks after all the NC protests peaked...


----------



## Road Guy

no, no, it must be people getting haircuts and going out to eat...

A few months ago people were talking about the 1918 Flu and what dragged that out was the Victory Parades for WWI - I think the demonstrations were basically a version of the parade.

But for $10 Billion bucks the CDC has said you are most likely to get it from someone when you are within 6 FT of someone who has it for 15 minutes or more, and worse if people are talking, singing, yelling, etc - so not a good environment- (Probably not a good environment for movies, bars, sporting events, either)


----------



## Road Guy

Weird - I guess Denver is doing a big program that they want to try and test everyone? Just got an email from them making a push to test everyone - seems like thats trying to hit a rolling target that may always be changing?


----------



## envirotex

Road Guy said:


> no, no, it must be people getting haircuts and going out to eat...


Obviously, we need Vanilla Ice to the rescue...

If there was a problem
Yo, I'll solve it!
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2020-07-01/in-austin-where-nearly-all-concerts-are-canceled-vanilla-ice-set-to-perform-friday/


----------



## leggo PE

Supe said:


> NC reporting today as highest number of confirmed cases.  Coincidentally enough, this comes two weeks after all the NC protests peaked...


Huh, I wonder why that isn't what happened in the SF Bay Area, which did NOT see spikes in cases two weeks after the protests peaked. It couldn't possibly be anything else, now could it?

I would also like to point out from an anecdotal standpoint, that as someone who has gone to protests where it was impossible to socially distance, but everyone wore masks (myself included), I got tested two weeks later and was COVID negative. Note, we had low numbers to begin with in our area, due to being the first place (let's call it, metropolitan area) in the country to impose Stay At Home orders. Now we are seeing spikes here and elsewhere in the state, as things are getting reopened. But again, my city and county (SF) was on a slower timeline to reopen than the rest the state in many cases. Now the state of CA is rolling back the reopenings for about 70% of the state population.


----------



## Road Guy

envirotex said:


> Obviously, we need Vanilla Ice to the rescue...
> 
> If there was a problem
> Yo, I'll solve it!
> Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it
> 
> https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2020-07-01/in-austin-where-nearly-all-concerts-are-canceled-vanilla-ice-set-to-perform-friday/


I thought he was in the home repair business or something these days?


----------



## envirotex

Road Guy said:


> I thought he was in the home repair business or something these days?


He is. 

Also, apparently he stopped, collaborated, and listened...The concert is cancelled.  TBH, as of Wednesday night there were only 84 tickets sold.  So probably not a problem with the social distancing...


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> I thought he was in the home repair business or something these days?


Kind of disappointed. One of the Friday night concerts they were going to do after one of the Red’s games this season was an ‘80s night...Vanila Ice, Rob Base, Tone Loc, etc. pretty good chance I would have been working security when for the Motley Crue/Def Leopard/Joan Jett and Billy Joel concerts too. At least they’ve already rescheduled those two for next year.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

I think the Karens are geographic specific - our Karens are more in line of chasing you down outside if you dont have a mask on..

So they only have 1 potential covid where the wife works currently, I post this just as a reminder to wear seat belt PSA for those of you with kids about to be that age, but apparently if you and your buddies get in a bad car wreck on the interstate and end up ejected from a vehicle  (&amp; you survive) they have to take your skull off so your brain can heal from the swelling and they have a special little fridge to keep it in (assuming you dont die in that process) - it still amazes me to this day people dont wear seatbelts - Id guess they are nearly half of our yearly auto fatalities...


----------



## Road Guy

This guys a trip if anyone has seen his stuff...


----------



## MA_PE

aog said:


> Would you rather:
> 
> a.) work from home?
> 
> b.) work at the office while wearing a mask?


That is our options at present.   I remain WFH.


----------



## mudpuppy

It's pretty much official that barring a miracle of Covid disappearing, we will be working from home at least until the end of this year.

By the tone of the survey our CEO sent out yesterday they're considering at least some of us never returning to the office.


----------



## Road Guy

I wonder if eventually people will either get offered say a little more or a little less to work from home? Wonder which it should be, company pays less for office overhead, you get the benefit of not having to pay for transportation expenses to go to work?

I am actually going to the field for the rest of the week to a project site.  Will be a little weird to be honest..


----------



## csb

I've been back in the office since April. I'm admittedly a little concerned about what happens with school in the fall and what that looks like for my work situation.


----------



## Road Guy

^ Ive been back since last week in May. But we have a skeleton crew here - It will be difficult with a full house..

After a few weeks of relentless bitching our hood pool is opening today (every other pool in the state is open) we must have the most worrisome people on our HOA board, they agreed to open it but no chairs allowed?  I guess thats maybe a thing to make you not want to go? So dumb - I think if you got Corona from chairs there would already be 300 Million infected..


----------



## Road Guy

also, be prepared to hear the teachers whining for hazard duty pay if they have to do their jobs in person......


----------



## aog

Road Guy said:


> I wonder if eventually people will either get offered say a little more or a little less to work from home? Wonder which it should be, company pays less for office overhead, you get the benefit of not having to pay for transportation expenses to go to work?


I heard that my employer offered those working from home a cut to stay working from home permanently.  I laughed when I heard it because I think the company should give them a raise instead of a cut--less overhead for the company.  Nobody took the offer apparently. Disclosure: I have not worked from home yet, so no firsthand knowledge--this is all hearsay.


----------



## Road Guy

I could see a slight trade off - Currently I lose 2 hours a day getting to and from work ( economic opportunity cost to me of a few thousand a year I would be able to spend that time doing what I want to do)- but there is also savings to me when I work from home -  my commute is 25 miles so  50 miles a day at .50 / mile mileage @ 260 working days is a cost of around $6500-  But depending on if the company actually reduced office size there likely would be more of a savings on there end - 

I feel I worked more when I was working from home - it was easy to slide into meetings online from 7 am to 6 pm &amp; I think many in our company think productivity actually increased.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> also, be prepared to hear the teachers whining for hazard duty pay if they have to do their jobs in person......


I think LOTS of people should be getting hazard pay right now. I know I wouldn't be risking my life for certain jobs without it. Unfortunately the little guy continues to get ******


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

aog said:


> I heard that my employer offered those working from home a cut to stay working from home permanently.  I laughed when I heard it because I think the company should give them a raise instead of a cut--less overhead for the company.  Nobody took the offer apparently. Disclosure: I have not worked from home yet, so no firsthand knowledge--this is all hearsay.


That

Is

Bullsh!t


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know, teachers just have a much higher tendency to whine about anything..

But Until they give it to the people who were trapped in hospital rooms treating 100% known infected then I think others can wait in line..


----------



## csb

Our agency is doing hazard pay. It varies based on who you had to interact with and it was not for everyone. Mostly it was for people who had to keep interacting with the public, like the DMV and troopers.


----------



## Dleg

I know one thing for sure, WFH is making the deadwood stand out like a sore thumb. I have a couple of people who I now know for a fact aren't doing shit, and it isn't affecting my Division's productivity at all, so I know it wasn't just WFH.


----------



## jeb6294

So phase 2 (people returning to the office who are not considered high risk) was supposed to start this week, but it was called off before it even started. I guess one of the caveats is a decreasing number of cases in the area which has not happened.

In my "media is trying to drag this out as long as possible" soapbox, SW Ohio *is *showing an increase in the number of cases, but I have not seen/heard anything about a spike in the number of deaths. I tried to find something, and I found a couple graphs that showed the number of people in the ICU and dying is still going down. To me, this seems to support some of the stories I've heard that the number of cases is going up because they are testing more people. For a while in Ohio, you had to have a not from your doctor, the president and the pope to get tested. Now they have drive thru testing.

The news and our idiot Governor are going on and on about how the numbers are increasing in Ohio, but I would think that if ICU numbers and deaths were going up we would be hearing about that too, but we are not.


----------



## txjennah PE

jeb6294 said:


> So phase 2 (people returning to the office who are not considered high risk) was supposed to start this week, but it was called off before it even started. I guess one of the caveats is a decreasing number of cases in the area which has not happened.
> 
> In my "media is trying to drag this out as long as possible" soapbox, SW Ohio *is *showing an increase in the number of cases, but I have not seen/heard anything about a spike in the number of deaths. I tried to find something, and I found a couple graphs that showed the number of people in the ICU and dying is still going down. To me, this seems to support some of the stories I've heard that the number of cases is going up because they are testing more people. For a while in Ohio, you had to have a not from your doctor, the president and the pope to get tested. Now they have drive thru testing.
> 
> The news and our idiot Governor are going on and on about how the numbers are increasing in Ohio, but I would think that if ICU numbers and deaths were going up we would be hearing about that too, but we are not.


Yeah, our Phase 2 date is getting pushed back too. We were never given an official date, just a general timeframe (late June), which clearly hasn't happened. Now it's just crickets.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> So phase 2 (people returning to the office who are not considered high risk) was supposed to start this week, but it was called off before it even started. I guess one of the caveats is a decreasing number of cases in the area which has not happened.
> 
> In my "media is trying to drag this out as long as possible" soapbox, SW Ohio *is *showing an increase in the number of cases, but I have not seen/heard anything about a spike in the number of deaths. I tried to find something, and I found a couple graphs that showed the number of people in the ICU and dying is still going down. To me, this seems to support some of the stories I've heard that the number of cases is going up because they are testing more people. For a while in Ohio, you had to have a not from your doctor, the president and the pope to get tested. Now they have drive thru testing.
> 
> The news and our idiot Governor are going on and on about how the numbers are increasing in Ohio, but I would think that if ICU numbers and deaths were going up we would be hearing about that too, but we are not.


I'm definitely hearing about an increase in deaths. Don't know if that is true other places.


----------



## Road Guy

i got tested at starbucks this am


----------



## roadwreck

Road Guy said:


> i got tested at starbucks this am


----------



## FLBuff PE

Road Guy said:


> i got tested at starbucks this am


Did you use your earned stars to pay for it?


----------



## Road Guy

I keep the stars for the wifes $12 drinks..

but in all seriousness there is a drive thru testing place right next to Starbucks set up - but the one here has actually been pretty slow as compared to a few weeks ago ( just based on my windshield survey)


----------



## csb

roadwreck said:


>


Whoa! Hey there, stranger.


----------



## Supe

leggo PE said:


> I would also like to point out from an anecdotal standpoint, that as someone who has gone to protests where it was impossible to socially distance, but everyone wore masks (myself included), I got tested two weeks later and was COVID negative.


The overwhelming majority of protestors in NC were not wearing masks nor social distancing.  In fact, neither were any law enforcement unless they were the ones shooting pepper balls.


----------



## Dleg

Credit to @Dexman PE PMP. Lol.


----------



## roadwreck

csb said:


> Whoa! Hey there, stranger.


Howdy, my spidey senses were tingling. I knew there was a post that needed a classic movie quote response.


----------



## Road Guy

one reason why so many people are not always fully taking whatever "scientist" say seriously is because there is usually at least one of these a day in the news..


----------



## Dleg

Every day in 2020 I feel a little more like Not Sure in Idiocracy.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## txjennah PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18094


EB needs an emoji that shows simultaneous laughter and hysterical sobbing.


----------



## envirotex

^^^Truth. 

Especially while waiting for results...There's always this guy until then.

:Locolaugh:


----------



## txjennah PE

envirotex said:


> ^^^Truth.
> 
> Especially while waiting for results...There's always this guy until then.
> 
> :Locolaugh:


Sending you good thoughts @envirotex, I hope you don't get it


----------



## Road Guy

Me: I bet this cornavirus wont be around forever...

coronavirus:


----------



## envirotex

txjennah PE said:


> Sending you good thoughts @envirotex, I hope you don't get it


Not COVID test results...PE test results.  ASSED2:


----------



## Dleg

So confusing.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> View attachment 18114


Ol' Murder Eyes in the back.


----------



## Road Guy

It did remind me of this:


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## blybrook PE

Now Black Death is in Colorado! What's next?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/a-squirrel-has-tested-positive-for-the-bubonic-plague-in-colorado.html


----------



## Supe




----------



## Road Guy

I thought i heard a lot of  prairie dogs had it here, there was a high school kid died from it a few years ago....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-rare-case-colorado-teen-dies-of-plague/


----------



## Dleg

It's always present in the prairie dogs there.


----------



## blybrook PE

That doesn't surprise me all that much. Thankfully, the prairie dogs aren't all that friendly and avoid humans. Squirrels can get pretty tame though.


----------



## Road Guy

I was glad to see this story end up this way - &amp; Sadly this would be a good thing to be all over the news instead of the normal grabage..

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_x


----------



## Supe

That's one of the only articles that has helped Mrs. Supe calm down somewhat at work.


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah I think that is almost a miracle to be honest - even people wearing the masks you have a certain percentage that are going to mess them up (touching them, etc)

I had to go to Lowes this morning to replace some bulbs in my basement (where I am working since our work AC went out) today and they had a _huge _section of the KN95 masks -I grabbed a box and if I have to start flying again, I would feel pretty good using those with a surgical mask over it to hold it in place..


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. It's impressive that no one got themselves sick by not following mask protocols (touching, not being on right, etc)


----------



## Supe

Road Guy said:


> Yeah I think that is almost a miracle to be honest - even people wearing the masks you have a certain percentage that are going to mess them up (touching them, etc)
> 
> I had to go to Lowes this morning to replace some bulbs in my basement (where I am working since our work AC went out) today and they had a _huge _section of the KN95 masks -I grabbed a box and if I have to start flying again, I would feel pretty good using those with a surgical mask over it to hold it in place..


I need to make a Lowes run for deck supplies, I'm going to BOLO!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Supe said:


> I need to make a Lowes run for deck supplies, I'm going to BOLO!


had to google BOLO


----------



## csb

Me too. I didn't understand his jive talk.


----------



## Supe

It's like you guys have never even been part of a police manhunt before.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

Guilty


----------



## Dleg




----------



## aog

Now that everyone is wearing masks in the office, is it okay to crop dust?


----------



## Supe

Only if everyone is wearing an N95 or better.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

aog said:


> Now that everyone is wearing masks in the office, is it okay to crop dust?


It was never not OK to crop dust the office.


----------



## Supe

wilheldp_PE said:


> It was never not OK to crop dust the office.


You'd think differently if you had the opportunity to experience our building's cafeteria.


----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

I now personally know three people with COVID. I was invited to a kid's birthday party where one of the people would be present. I wasn't planning to go anyway because wtf-there's-a-pandemic-going-on. The other two people are older and have little to no symptoms. That is so chilling.


----------



## jeb6294

aog said:


> Now that everyone is wearing masks in the office, is it okay to crop dust?


I think that would require some kind of charcoal filter.


----------



## aog

jeb6294 said:


> I think that would require some kind of charcoal filter.


What is the size of the funk particle?


----------



## Dleg

civilrobot said:


> I now personally know three people with COVID. I was invited to a kid's birthday party where one of the people would be present. I wasn't planning to go anyway because wtf-there's-a-pandemic-going-on. The other two people are older and have little to no symptoms. That is so chilling.


Wait, people who know they are currently infected with COVID are going to a kid's birthday party?  That's f'd up. And even more f'd up that other people apparently know about it and are okay with it.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dothracki PE

Road Guy said:


>


Is their name Jenny?


----------



## aog

ryankon518 said:


> Is their name Jenny?


She changing her name from Jenny to Karen


----------



## csb

aog said:


> She changing her name from Jenny to Karen


Does she also drive a Chrysler LeBaron?


----------



## Dothracki PE

csb said:


> Does she also drive a Chrysler LeBaron?


She's a girl with a short skirt and a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong jacket


----------



## civilrobot PE etc etc

Dleg said:


> Wait, people who know they are currently infected with COVID are going to a kid's birthday party?  That's f'd up. And even more f'd up that other people apparently know about it and are okay with it.


People are making poor choices these days.


----------



## Road Guy

I was talking with a guy I used to work with from my former office and they had a guy who felt sick and went and got a covid test, on the way back from the test he swung by the office to pick up a few things from his desk, ended up shooting the breeze with people at work, he got the call that he was positive the next day, I guess there were around a dozen people there and .............. now they all have to quarantine for 2 weeks...

And these are people with engineering degrees!


----------



## JayKay PE

So.  Went home to NY.  Learned about 'covid parties', where college-aged kids and younger are having huge parties when they find out a friend has covid, and everyone who attends chips in money (like $20/person), and who ever tests positive next who attended the party gets the money pool.

I...worry for our country.


----------



## Supe

And just think, some want to lower the voting age to 16...


----------



## Dothracki PE

JayKay PE said:


> So.  Went home to NY.  Learned about 'covid parties', where college-aged kids and younger are having huge parties when they find out a friend has covid, and everyone who attends chips in money (like $20/person), and who ever tests positive next who attended the party gets the money pool.
> 
> I...worry for our country.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

LOL, I like this @ryankon518 guy.

#NewGuyDoesn'tSuck


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

I love Mike Rowe and his perspective.

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/3445993122077473?__tn__=K-R


----------



## Road Guy

were all in this together!


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; what is in his hand? is this some type of "hoverboard" / surf board? that runs off electricity / propeller?

Dude is so vanilla he cant even be a billionaire and surf?


----------



## JayKay PE

Can't tell if he has mime makeup on or his mom is super concerned about sun cancer and covered him with sunscreen...


----------



## snickerd3

it looks like one of those quick release suction cup handles.  100% Zinc oxide for the win!!!


----------



## Road Guy

But ive never seen a surf board with a handle on the top?


----------



## Supe

Definitely looks motorized based on the wake and overall length.


----------



## Dothracki PE

That water is too calm. No way that's not motorized.


----------



## Road Guy

Think I found it...





What a douchebag...


----------



## kevo_55

The 1% have it rough.


----------



## Dothracki PE

kevo_55 said:


> The 1% have it rough.


Looks like it takes a lot of effort to master


----------



## Road Guy

like where is a great white when you need one!


----------



## csb

HE'S STILL WEARING A HOODIE.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

FoxSports will be adding digital fans to their sports broadcasts. They clap, boo, do the wave, etc.


----------



## csb

I guess the graphic designers needed a gig?


----------



## Road Guy

that's one way to wrap this shit up..


----------



## jeb6294

https://www.facebook.com/jeb.bower/videos/10220964804097376/

Was there for a bit of “opening day” working. Had the game going on the Fox Sports app on my phone while I was in the tunnel...not sure why it was picking up that audio. Only people in the stands are a few camera people, the grounds crew and some of the non-starting pitchers. Funny, they’re still announcing the game like there’s a crowd there and they’re piping in some crown noice.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> FoxSports will be adding digital fans to their sports broadcasts. They clap, boo, do the wave, etc.


Baseball was on in the bar where I had dinner tonight.  I'm not a fan, but I was casually watching between drinks.  One game had cardboard "fans" in the stands behind home plate.  My friends and I mocked it mercilessly.  Then, the next game that came on had nothing in the stands behind home plate.  The cardboard cutouts looked a lot better than empty seats.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Exengineer

Mask wearing has now made the DHS concerned that their facial recognition surveillance technology is being thwarted.  Gee, isn't that considered a totalitarian practice not suited to a constitutional republic?  Why hasn't that been protested against by Antifa and BLM?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Exengineer said:


> Mask wearing has now made the DHS concerned that their facial recognition surveillance technology is being thwarted.  Gee, isn't that considered a totalitarian practice not suited to a constitutional republic?  Why hasn't that been protested against by Antifa and BLM?


I guess not being murdered in the street is a higher priority than not having your privacy violated. Surprising


----------



## Dleg

I was doing this before COVID so it must be early onset dementia...


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Exengineer said:


> Mask wearing has now made the DHS concerned that their facial recognition surveillance technology is being thwarted.  Gee, isn't that considered a totalitarian practice not suited to a constitutional republic?  Why hasn't that been protested against by Antifa and BLM?


Well as I understand it, if everyone is screened it does not violate rights. It only gets murky when you target certain groups

But I will also never forget the first time I went to NYC after Sept 11, 2001


----------



## snickerd3

Dleg said:


> I was doing this before COVID so it must be early onset dementia...
> 
> View attachment 18216


same here.


----------



## Road Guy

So far the only places that have taken my temps has been at the swimming pool in my subdivision


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> So far the only places that have taken my temps has been at the swimming pool in my subdivision


I have had it done at a couple restaraunys


----------



## snickerd3

daycare takes the kids temps everyday, but other than that and medical office (dr, dentist etc), when we went to 6 flags in June was the only other place taking temps


----------



## Road Guy

And I forgot at the Doc office when I went to get my knee looked at they took my temp before they let me inside..

But the wife says most of her covid patients dont have a temperature (they are about to die, but no temp) not sure where they came up with that concept though..


----------



## snickerd3

I really don't mind them taking temps at daycare.  This way it catches the strep throat and other illnesses that people would send their kids to daycare with.  Although, our daycare has been okay in that regards.  The other daycare in town however, our neighbor who sent their kid there was sick all the time.  They stopped sending him and he doesn't sick all the time now


----------



## aog

Road Guy said:


> not sure where they came up with that concept though..


knee-jerk reactions?

I wonder how many fevers have actually been found with this type of screening.  My guess would be a few more at a Dr.'s office than at the local pool.


----------



## Road Guy

Yeah Day cares should do that as the norm, but they typically use any excuse to not take your kid (or at least they did when our went there)!

I wonder if there is any correlation to the amount of kids that spent many years in day care (which is probably the largest immunity building system there is due to all the sick babies and toddlers in there) to them either being more or less susceptible to something like covid?

I just remember after about a year, what would give my kid a runny nose would give me near death diarrhea for a week


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Given their tendency to touch everything or put everything in their mouth, young kids may be the biggest source of bioweapons around


----------



## Road Guy

Has anyone found a link to a website that has the US Covid cases and deaths by date?  Seems like an easy enough thing but I cant seem to find it.  Looking for either a spreadsheet / download or a "list"

Ive been doing my own nerd tracking from what the CDC publishes daily but I am missing some dates in June Id like to have filled in.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

I was doing that but for Iowa, but I kinda gave up since I don't think they even have an accurate number anymore.  I mean, I'm sure they do, right, its just the reporting that is goofy?


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20

Seems pretty convinced.


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.




----------



## Road Guy

ask if any of them actually went into the Covid rooms...


----------



## Audi Driver P.E.

Road Guy said:


> ask if any of them actually went into the Covid rooms...


sounds like it


----------



## Dleg

The Johns Hopkins site has cases and deaths by day for every state (not in Excel format but you can pull the numbers off the graph by hovering your mouse over each day) 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

You have to play with the settings and select the state by drop-down menus near the top, look at daily cases on the graphs.


----------



## Dleg

> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science-idUSKCN24S2FC?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&amp;utm_medium=trueAnthem&amp;utm_source=facebook





> Among 100 patients ages 45 to 53, "a considerable majority" - 78 - had inflammation in the heart muscle and lining. Sixty-seven had recovered at home while 33 had required hospitalization. Half of the former patients were more than two months out since their diagnosis at the time of the MRI. Thirty-six patients reported ongoing shortness of breath and general exhaustion, and 71 had blood markers of heart muscle damage. Compared with similar people who had not had COVID-19, the recently recovered patients' hearts pumped more weakly and displayed other risk factors for heart failure. Puntmann suspects the abnormalities are signs of permanent problems. "While we do not have direct evidence for late consequences yet, such as the development of heart failure ... it is quite possible that in a few years, this burden will be enormous based on what we have learned from other viral conditions that similarly affect the heart," she said.


----------



## Roarbark

A little late into this, but thought I'd post a little infographic about proper handwashing technique for everyone's reference:


----------



## Road Guy

This is fucking brilliant


----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Ignore this.  EB went crazy on me!


----------



## JayKay PE

I just bought a couple more fabric masks.  My favorite ones are from a suit shop in Michigan.  I feel like they're using material that is either suit liner or used for pocket handkerchiefs, either way, they're super soft, mold to my face better, and the patterns are cute.  (suitsbysal on etsy, if anyone is interested).


----------



## csb

Roarbark said:


> A little late into this, but thought I'd post a little infographic about proper handwashing technique for everyone's reference:


Damn near every Friday we have Alexa play this song for us.


----------



## Roarbark

csb said:


> Damn near every Friday we have Alexa play this song for us.


And you're still sane?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

They're already starting school here in Indiana.  A co-worker was talking about it and since the school district is so small they're pretty much doing nothing in response due to not having money.  His 5-year old is going into kindergarten and I'm just like...I get it, but also...you're just saying your kid shouldn't wear a mask because they're 5.


----------



## Road Guy

> On 7/27/2020 at 2:59 PM, Audi driver, P.E. said:



lol, i guess the comrades at Youtube are not a fan of "all scientist"


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Was reviewing a report last week. Had to point out that an acronym should be all capitals. So an elementary school grammar mistake made its way into a "professional" engineering report


----------



## CIVILSDOITINTHEDIRT




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18243


Not China. Nintendo. Expect spitting fire any day now...


----------



## Orchid PE

Both my parents ended up getting COVID. My mom had only minor symptoms, but my dad ended up going to the hospital. The day after my wife and I got home from the hospital with our new baby, my mom called and told me my dad has had covid for a week now and was running fever of 104. It took a lot to convince my dad to go to the hospital, but he eventually went. IDK why he didn't go as soon as he found out, especially since he has heart problems (had his first heart attack was when he was 50, he's 61 now). He was there for 3 days then was went home. He's almost over it now, however it's almost like it's aged him 10 years. He doesn't look very good and sounds horrible. The wife and I are debating about moving back down to FL just to help them out, let them see the new baby, and be there for my mom just in case the worst happens. Apparently 75% of people that have had covid tend to have heart issues a few months later.


----------



## Road Guy

Hey man good to see you!

Sorry about your parents, I am glad you dad went to hospital and got to leave, did he end up having to go to ICU?

Hope he can get better over the next couple of months.

My parents live in Dunedin, Fl &amp; I had to really scare the shit out of them to get them to stop hanging out with their church friends and such - I think they are behaving now but all those retired people with nothing to do tend to congregate together.


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> Hey man good to see you!
> 
> Sorry about your parents, I am glad you dad went to hospital and got to leave, did he end up having to go to ICU?
> 
> Hope he can get better over the next couple of months.
> 
> My parents live in Dunedin, Fl &amp; I had to really scare the shit out of them to get them to stop hanging out with their church friends and such - I think they are behaving now but all those retired people with nothing to do tend to congregate together.


I believe he was. I forget exactly what they had to do to him, but I do remember he wasn't allowed to eat while he was there. So they just pumped him full of fluids and whatnot.

I thinks it's kind of funny how he got it. He got it from the County Health Department (he works there part-time). The county is still having the engineers go out on inspections, and they always go with a partner. Well, my dad's partner just got back from visiting her son in Jacksonville, FL. She got covid while she was there, and gave it to my dad (and who knows who else) before she started showing symptoms. Then dad gave it to mom.

Both my parents were taking it very seriously and were hardly leaving the house. I believe my dad only left to go to work at the health department, and my mom only left to go take care of my grandmother (93 yo). Some of my other aunts and uncles had to step up and help take care of my grandmother while my mom is getting over it. They normally don't help out.


----------



## snickerd3

when I went to Hobby Lobby last month there was a group of retired ladies that all brought lawn chairs and we having their daily ladies group in the shade of the treed medians of the parking lot to follow the social distancing rules.


----------



## JayKay PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> The wife and I are debating about moving back down to FL just to help them out, let them see the new baby, and be there for my mom just in case the worst happens. Apparently 75% of people that have had covid tend to have heart issues a few months later.


Oh fuck, sorry @Chattaneer PE!  I'm happy both of your parents are recovering/feeling slightly better.  My opinion on the moving thing is...if you can do it and it wouldn't mess up careers/money flow, I would do it.  Once people get older the support system becomes more important and I'm sure your mom would love to have you there, helping, letting them see the baby, and if the worst case happens you won't need to uproot yourself and the family to help your mom figure out what needs to be done/what her new stage might be.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> when I went to Hobby Lobby last month there was a group of retired ladies that all brought lawn chairs and we having their daily ladies group in the shade of the treed medians of the parking lot to follow the social distancing rules.


There were people in my neighborhood who put chairs in each corner of the driveway to socialize.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Both my parents ended up getting COVID. My mom had only minor symptoms, but my dad ended up going to the hospital. The day after my wife and I got home from the hospital with our new baby, my mom called and told me my dad has had covid for a week now and was running fever of 104. It took a lot to convince my dad to go to the hospital, but he eventually went. IDK why he didn't go as soon as he found out, especially since he has heart problems (had his first heart attack was when he was 50, he's 61 now). He was there for 3 days then was went home. He's almost over it now, however it's almost like it's aged him 10 years. He doesn't look very good and sounds horrible. The wife and I are debating about moving back down to FL just to help them out, let them see the new baby, and be there for my mom just in case the worst happens. Apparently 75% of people that have had covid tend to have heart issues a few months later.


Sorry to hear that Chatt... glad things are working out now. I hope that continues; definitely lot of unknowns.

I've know a few people that have gotten COVID, so far no major impact. I hope that continues.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## mudpuppy

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18248




This.  And we're moving into hayfever season.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Every time I go on a job site I have to answer all the questions, and I"m like ...Ok vhab, don't sniffle, don't cough, don't sneeze...as they ask if i have had any of the symptoms.  I really wanna yell YES I DO! and run away.  But the truth is, I have sniffled coughed and sneezed my way through life, and particularly bad during the summer months, so am 99.99% sure it is not COVID.


----------



## csb

That's me right now. "Is it a sore throat from allergies or the end?"


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

csb said:


> That's me right now. "Is it a sore throat from allergies or the end?"


whenever I have to speak for more than a few minutes my throat gets dry and I have to cough a little,  so basically every zoom meeting I'm having to explain all if that....


----------



## wilheldp_PE

vhab49_PE said:


> Every time I go on a job site I have to answer all the questions, and I"m like ...Ok vhab, don't sniffle, don't cough, don't sneeze...as they ask if i have had any of the symptoms.  I really wanna yell YES I DO! and run away.  But the truth is, I have sniffled coughed and sneezed my way through life, and particularly bad during the summer months, so am 99.99% sure it is not COVID.


My co-workers and I go to a local mexican joint for lunch every Tuesday.  I always load up my meal with a shitload of hot sauce, then end up choking on it.  The past few weeks, I've been trying to stifle my coughs so we don't get kicked out.  This same chain (but another location) had a worker test positive towards the beginning of the pandemic, so I'm trying not to get them shut down.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18264


Speaking of this, I can't tell y'all how many people from up here in TN have vacationed down in FL this summer. My family and my wife's family and both in FL, yet we haven't visited them COVID came around. Who in their right mind takes a vacation to a state with new daily cases hovering around 10k?


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Speaking of this, I can't tell y'all how many people from up here in TN have vacationed down in FL this summer. My family and my wife's family and both in FL, yet we haven't visited them COVID came around. Who in their right mind takes a vacation to a state with new daily cases hovering around 10k?


I know. It's infuriating.  My hometown in South Texas is a hotspot right now since everyone decided to escape to the beach there during the pandemic.


----------



## Road Guy

Never forget these assholes too...


----------



## P-E

Chattaneer PE said:


> Both my parents ended up getting COVID. My mom had only minor symptoms, but my dad ended up going to the hospital. The day after my wife and I got home from the hospital with our new baby, my mom called and told me my dad has had covid for a week now and was running fever of 104. It took a lot to convince my dad to go to the hospital, but he eventually went. IDK why he didn't go as soon as he found out, especially since he has heart problems (had his first heart attack was when he was 50, he's 61 now). He was there for 3 days then was went home. He's almost over it now, however it's almost like it's aged him 10 years. He doesn't look very good and sounds horrible. The wife and I are debating about moving back down to FL just to help them out, let them see the new baby, and be there for my mom just in case the worst happens. Apparently 75% of people that have had covid tend to have heart issues a few months later.


Yikes.  Glad to hear they are recovering.  Very similar story as a coworker.  Back in April his whole family got it and his father in law was in the same situation and also survived barely.  Some people are taking a very long time to recover.  Hope the rate stays low here but seeing all of the packed beaches in Boston and on the Cape, increased infections seem inevitable.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE

It's good to see most everyone here it taking it seriously. One of my sisters isn't (the one that lives in FL). Her and her husband have just been living life like normal since this all started. And yet, neither of them nor their two boys have gotten sick. Just last week her and all of her in-laws took a vacation to Gatlinburg for the week. All 20 of them. I would've thought after my parents got it that she would've had second thoughts about going. Must be nice going out and doing stuff and not worrying about perpetuating covid.


----------



## Dleg

This is a pretty grim visualization if you haven't scrolled through it yet:

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/DEATHS/xlbvgblezpq/index.html


----------



## Road Guy

At last we’re being spared from All those annoying back to school pics this year!!!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Road Guy said:


> At last we’re being spared from All those annoying back to school pics this year!!!


Right.  Thus far, we are still going back to school on the 24th.  We don't know what it looks like, but WE ARE DOING IT! Also, just got a notice that school picture day is coming up August 27th/28th! WTF.


----------



## snickerd3

today is last day to decide how you want to go back.  Hybrid or 100% remote.  The school board is having a special meeting wednesday to go over results of how parents deided and all the individual school plans.  They haven't said if they are FB living this special meeting, like the last one.


----------



## Supe

Charlotte schools have abandoned the hybrid method and are going 100% virtual.  Consequently, the YMCA is opening "camps" to basically babysit, and is even trying to convince the governor to let them open the camps _in school buildings_ to facilitate the numbers they're expecting.  So, you will go to school in a room full of kids, that's not really school, to learn from home, except you're not really home, and your school teacher isn't at school.  

We're still homeschooling despite the move.  Every charter school and private school in the area now has wait lists that are thousands of students long, and they're also losing a ton of students to private homeschool options.  "Tutors" are also flooding the local FB groups offering services to effectively babysit/proctor the virtual academies.  

What a crazy world we're living in.


----------



## Road Guy

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18269


----------



## csb

It just occurred to me this morning that I've been all "Ha, ha- Florida sucks" but it's hurricane season, so they will be actively traveling out of Florida with their germs and I'm pretty sure I don't want to see this Jerry Bruckheimer film.


----------



## Road Guy

hopefully most will just go back to NY where they came from


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> hopefully most will just go back to NY where they came from


Exactly. The _true_ Floridians don't run from hurricanes.


----------



## Road Guy

So I was able to slowly back in the number of cases / deaths from the CDC through June 5 so far.  Put them on the same scale. You can see a little bump in deaths as cases go up but it basically goes up and down- holding steady at around 850 / day this time period. 

I found the weekly death numbers buried on the CDC web site from before when I wasn't taking notes.

Not trying to make any ascertains that things are fine, just found it interesting.  I have the same data for Colorado but with # hospitalized # in ICU, etc and it looks very similar to this (Cases go up and up, hospitalized, ICU, deaths, stay fairly flat)

My conclusion is that we need a curfew on the young......... 




These are my gaps from when the CDC tracks data ( early February), that I am trying to fill in when I have time..


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> So I was able to slowly back in the number of cases / deaths from the CDC through June 5 so far.  Put them on the same scale. You can see a little bump in deaths as cases go up but it basically goes up and down- holding steady at around 850 / day this time period.
> 
> I found the weekly death numbers buried on the CDC web site from before when I wasn't taking notes.
> 
> Not trying to make any ascertains that things are fine, just found it interesting.  I have the same data for Colorado but with # hospitalized # in ICU, etc and it looks very similar to this (Cases go up and up, hospitalized, ICU, deaths, stay fairly flat)
> 
> My conclusion is that we need a curfew on the young.........
> 
> View attachment 18280
> 
> 
> These are my gaps from when the CDC tracks data ( early February), that I am trying to fill in when I have time..
> 
> View attachment 18281


Interesting. I always like data.

I'd be curious to see the y-axis plotted with a log scale. I might be wrong about this, but an uncontrolled infections would be expected to have exponential growth. So plotting it logarithmically would allow us to see if it's growing as expected, slowing down (implying that mitigations are having an positive effect), or speeding up (no idea why it would be speeding up).

Confession, I am really sleepy right now, and my brain is probably at 70ish percent, so I might have that all wrong.


----------



## Dleg

All of that is possible on the Johns Hopkins website. The logarithmic scale, daily vs. cumulative. 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

And for U.S.A. (gives deaths too)
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map


----------



## Dleg

Chattaneer PE said:


> Exactly. The _true_ Floridians don't run from hurricanes.


Right. They don't even evacuate when told to!


----------



## Road Guy

^- I think anything less than a Cat 2 they probably don’t even buy milk?

My dad said to me “I spent 10K on hurricane shutters I want to see if they work!”


----------



## Road Guy

I can’t find on Hopkins where it plots deaths versus cases(on the same graph) - I am mainly just curious to see what the trend was in the spring versus now, I think August will be interesting - my thoughts is that in the spring the actual number of cases had to be at least 25-30% more than what was reported to make the deaths match the rate that is happening today. So I want to work backwards to fill the holes in to see what it looked like in real time and not skewed.

My non scientist self thinks we didn’t really see a big wave in June so much as we were really still in the middle of the first wave.

While CO isn’t Florida there is a large influx of people here in the summer - the hospitalization rates have been pretty level here since May &amp; pretty much the only thing you can’t do is go to a ball game / concert / movie / etc - but folks are out and about restaurants are as full as they can be.

Maybe they are all taking it back to Texas with them and the locals are not picking it up- but it just doesn’t make sense to me..I really figured we wouldn’t get through the summer here without a lot of the mountain towns shut down (happy to be wrong) maybe I’ll buy ski passes after all...


----------



## Dleg

I see the types of graphs you suggest, and here's my takeaway:

- the surge in the spring was much more severe because it hit us before we were testing, and social distancing measures (and masks) were not being used yet. So it spread like wildfire. Cases went up very rapidly, and so did deaths. Cases were very much undercounted because at the time, only the sickest were being tested. 

- The initial surge was limited  mostly to parts of the east and west coasts, where the virus first landed in the greatest numbers. Everywhere else saw smaller surges but just as sharp, only because fewer people were traveling there from the international hotspots at the time.

- Spread of the virus dropped starting April because everyone was staying home and freaking out.

- People started going out and about when states reopened around Memorial day, and when the internet propaganda started about freedoms and masks etc. The virus started spreading from the cities to the rest of the country.

- The rise we are seeing now is not as steep but the magnitude is much larger, and it is steepening. To me this reflects the virus spreading in more places, but slower because of mitigation measures. But mathematics is mathematics, and the slope is steepening because growth is still exponential.

- Deaths are increasing but the curve is rising less steeply than the first surge. I have a couple ideas why this is: 

     - testing is more widespread, so the total case count is getting closer to reality and is finally including a lot of well people/asymptomatics

     - The most vulnerable people are being better protected now than when this whole thing kicked off, which started before we were even aware of it in NY, NJ, WA etc.

- The death curve is steepening. How steep will it get?  That will totally depend on people's behaviors and state and local government actions. It seems like people in power are finaly getting more scared of being responsible for deaths than being responsible for inconveniences, so maybe this death spike will level off before hitting the numbers we saw in April. But we have something very bad this time that we did not have in April: much, much wider spread. So even though the steepness of the death curve may not be as high this time, the magnitude might be higher. So we might actually see more deaths this time around, even if we don't see people turned away from ICUs. Because instead of happening only in NY and NJ, it will be in every large, medium, and small city in the country. 

- And then we have the fall. There was hope, with good reason, that the virus would not spread as easily in the summer. This is not turning out to be the case. Does this mean it will spread even more efficiently in the fall and winter, when people are crowded together indoors?  When kids are back in school?  These are not political questions. Simply epidemiologic questions that depend on only a couple of variables: how contagious the virus is, and how much opportunity we give it to spread.

     -


----------



## Dleg

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18262


----------



## Dleg

9


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> ^- I think anything less than a Cat 2 they probably don’t even buy milk?
> 
> My dad said to me “I spent 10K on hurricane shutters I want to see if they work!”


So far I've been through Erin, Opal, Ivan, Denis, Katrina, and Michael? I'm sure I've forgotten one.

I think now that I have kids, if I ever live in FL again I'll send them away if a hurricane is coming. Michael hit when my daughter was two weeks old, and it spun up too quickly for us to get a game plan together.


----------



## Road Guy

I think the debate is if you dont fly out early where do you go? Just sit on I-75 waiting to run out of gas and get gorged at the Hotels?  - That was my parents feelings for the one that Hit Tampa a few years ago (although my Dad still hasnt bought a generator yet) - there main problem was no power for about 10 days.

I lived in Savannah for Hurricane David in 79 - although I was pretty young I can remember the house shaking and feeling like it was coming to come apart any second. several of our neighbors houses got crushed by some huge trees - I guess my dad has forgotten that!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I've ridden out more than my share of hurricanes in Louisiana. We never used to evacuate. People didn't really evacuate en masse until Hurricane Ivan in 2004 which was predicted to be an end-of-the world type storm but turned out to be nothing in LA. (I think it had more impact in other places, but I don't really remember.) But honestly that was kind of a blessing because that prompted more people to evacuate next year when Katrina hit.


----------



## Road Guy

I had to work hurricane Andrew that hit South Florida in the early 90's when I was still in the Army NG - people were hijacking supply trucks on the Florida Turnpik - but we just escorted (armed) the relief trucks and supplies, after making that run from Ga to South Florida  few times in a humve with no AC it got very old vey quick (well actually it was old after the first trip!) 

Here is what I guess I was trying to find - would like to see something similar for the US, but here are two graphs I stole from Colorado's Covid Corona Site.   

Maybe the very high risk are taking precautions - these trends in both cumulative cases and the 3 day average dont really line up

At the April 12 point my wife said they had 35 Covid patients in her ICU (which only holds 24 so she said it was a shit show) yesterday they had 3?


----------



## Orchid PE

I'm glad we didn't live in the Andrew path; that one was terrible. Ivan hit our area pretty hard. We were without power for about 30 days, but ran the fridge off of one generator and the water well and TV off another. Lived off of MREs for a few months, and I actually didn't mind them. Most of the pastas were good and the grilled chicken breast was a treat. I never did try the grape smoothie, though. We had tons of tiny tabasco sauce bottles for years after that. After Ivan, the area I lived in realized they needed better hurricane evacuation routes. They then spent the next 10 or so years making routes. The south FL hurricane traffic is unbelievable. I don't think they'll ever be able to prepare for the traffic that comes out of south FL!

FL's covid numbers dropped last week and its probably because people were staying home to prepare for the storm. This hurricane season has been pretty active, and with my luck if I do move back down to FL I'll have to work multiple storms. At least I'll get overtime.

I wonder how fantasy football is going to go this year.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I wonder how fantasy football is going to go this year.


THIS


----------



## Violator




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Supe

Most people can swim anyways, geez.


----------



## Orchid PE

Just like the Titanic, covid has killed more men than women, as well as killed more elderly than young.  I think the universe hates old men.


----------



## Road Guy

and there was room for Jack on that piece of debris!

Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


----------



## User1

Road Guy said:


> and there was room for Jack on that piece of debris!
> 
> Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


i am overdue for my 6mo but i am NOT going in . they're in peoples mouths all day. My teeth are fine. i'll just floss some extra.


----------



## Supe

I have a chip in my tooth that's driving me insane because I keep catching my tongue on it (they missed a spot when I had it bonded a while back), but I refuse to go in and have it corrected because of COVID.


----------



## leggo PE

I went to see my dentist back in June. I was supposed to go like the week we went into SIP.

It was fine. They only let one person getting service in at once (the patient before would have already left), used an infrared thermometer to take my temperature upon arrival, didn't allow anyone to sit anywhere in the waiting area, and both the dentist and hygienist had face coverings under face shields. They were very efficient and I was out of there pretty darn quickly.

They also said you had to have a negative COVID test within 7 days of your appointment... Mine at the time was like 10 days old, but they let it slide.


----------



## snickerd3

Road Guy said:


> and there was room for Jack on that piece of debris!
> 
> Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


I went and both my kids went in June while we were experiencing a multi-week period of no new cases.  Been to the eye Dr and regular dr Too.   They reduced the number of people in the office.  deep cleaning in between each appt.  temp checks outside before entering buildings.  The dental people wore gowns, masks, face shield, goggles, hair coverings, gloves.


----------



## txjennah PE

Safety moment from today:

"The ticks are not social distancing!"

HUR HUR


----------



## snickerd3

txjennah PE said:


> Safety moment from today:
> 
> "The ticks are not social distancing!"
> 
> HUR HUR


That's for sure.  Mr snick just told me his mom has lyme disease....it got really ugly there for awhile.


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> and there was room for Jack on that piece of debris!
> 
> Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


I went two weeks ago for a cleaning. Wasn't bad. One positive was that there was no wait.


----------



## Road Guy

snickerd3 said:


> That's for sure.  Mr snick just told me his mom has lyme disease....it got really ugly there for awhile.


Please do not call it Lyme Disease, as that might be offensive to the people in Lyme, Connecticut


----------



## Dothracki PE

Road Guy said:


> Please do not call it Lyme Disease, as that might be offensive to the people in Lyme, Connecticut


We must call it borrelia burgdorferi


----------



## Dleg

I went to the dentist here right when COVID was peaking. Dentist assured me everything was safe. I regretted it the instant the saliva started aerosolizing and I recognized the fear in the face of the hygienist.  But I didn't get sick. And my teeth are clean.


----------



## DoctorWho-PE

Road Guy said:


> Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


I went Tuesday. It was fine.


----------



## txjennah PE

snickerd3 said:


> That's for sure.  Mr snick just told me his mom has lyme disease....it got really ugly there for awhile.


Eeee sorry to hear that!


----------



## snickerd3

txjennah PE said:


> Eeee sorry to hear that!


Diseased Bugs seem to like her.  When Mr snick was 3, a mosquito gave her encephalitis damaging her short term memory forever and gave her epilepsy.    

BUGS suck!  literally and metaphorically speaking


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> Has anyone done the Dentist yet? Supposed to go tomorrow but thinking about cancelling?


Went a few weeks ago. Sit in your car until they come to get you. Mask on your way in. Make you gargle with peroxide. Whole thing is silly...even before the ‘Rona, hygienists wore masks.

Hygienist asked me if the peroxide was bad. Told it burned and tasted like shit. She acts all surprised and says nobody there had tried it.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

I’ve been to both a dentist and periodontist since this whole thing took off. They wear face shields and all the protective gear and screen everyone that comes in.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Me and my family are all overdue, but we've been postponing our appointment since this started.


----------



## blybrook PE

I've had my initial dentist appointment cancelled due to the local municipality lock down order. When the dentist was able to reopen, they called and gave me the run down of what was expected to have the appointment, so I scheduled my overdue cleaning in early June.

Arrived 15 minutes early, called the front desk to let them know I was there and waited in the truck until they were ready for me. They called when it was time to enter and I was told to come up the stairs (NOT to use the elevator). Everyone was required to wear a face covering; dental hygienists had 7mil gloves (which were changed prior to starting the cleaning), surgical style mask AND face shield. Front desk was off limits, you had to stay 10' away from the desk at all times. Upon entry, they took my temperature, had me review their questions and answer yes/no to if I was showing ANY symptoms related to COVID or other illness, used a finger tip style oxygen sensor and took my blood pressure before I entered the lobby. Prior to climbing into the chair, had to take off my mask, wash my hands, complete a peroxide rinse (had to spit back into the cup, then pour it into the sink), then wash hands again. I brought my own dark sunglasses, which they appreciated. Sonic cleaning or any activities that produced aerosol were avoided, so it was back to the old school scrapers &amp; picks.

The dentist had similar PPE to the hygienists and washed his hands before getting a new set of gloves before the exam and washed his hands again before leaving the room.

Upon completion, put on my mask, wash my hands again, then leave via the elevator as the stairwell to come up was not large enough to have two people to pass by while maintaining proper "social" distancing.

If your local dentist is taking the necessary precautions, it's easy enough to complete your exam / cleaning and still keep everyone relatively safe.


----------



## Road Guy

yeah it was pretty squared away, similar to you all's procedure -  hygienist and docs had on N95's and Face Shields, so I felt like if there wasnt much chance of stuff escaping that  I hadn't been in a year so tons of scraping... i guess they cant do the polishing for whatever reason, just making money on them xrays!

And for whatever reason she asked me if anyone ever told me I look like Bill Bob Thornton? I was like WTF?   I am trying to think of any movie he did where he didnt look old as fuck?


----------



## blybrook PE

Road Guy said:


> And for whatever reason she asked me if anyone ever told me I look like Bill Bob Thornton? I was like WTF?   I am trying to think of any movie he did where he didnt look old as fuck?


Maybe she meant the teeth?


----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> And for whatever reason she asked me if anyone ever told me I look like Bill Bob Thornton? I was like WTF?   I am trying to think of any movie he did where he didnt look old as fuck?


 Maybe....


----------



## Road Guy

That is my resting dentist face!

Still sort of puzzled over that comment - I am cancelling my gym membership and getting chubby again!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## snickerd3




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

make it a double...


----------



## Dothracki PE

We are all going to be saved by llama blood!

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/aeronabs-nasal-spray-could-help-slow-spread-of-covid-19-ucsf-researchers-say/2343575/


----------



## Violator




----------



## Orchid PE

_A new poll reveals Americans have a wildly overstated view of COVID-19's impact with respect to total infections and total deaths as percentage of the population.
Poll Question: How many people in your country have had COVID-19?Americans Answered: 20% (66M)Reality: 1% (3.3M)

Poll Question: How many people in your country have died from COVID-19?
Americans Answered: 9% (29.5M)
Reality: 0.04% (131K)_
 

These are some older numbers, but still interesting. I blame it on common core math.


----------



## Orchid PE

Just found out one of my uncles has covid, one of my cousins has it, and that cousin was around my 94yo grandmother that is now running 102 temp, and an aunt is running a fever.


----------



## Road Guy

Hope they are okay - damn.

We are starting to know more and more people that have it or have had it.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Just found out one of my uncles has covid, one of my cousins has it, and that cousin was around my 94yo grandmother that is now running 102 temp, and an aunt is running a fever.


Man, I'm sorry.


----------



## txjennah PE

Road Guy said:


> Hope they are okay - damn.
> 
> We are starting to know more and more people that have it or have had it.


Someone very close to me got it in May and three months later is still dealing with secondary infections and bronchitis.  I wish people took it more seriously.


----------



## Road Guy

Has anyone seen the recent (2) videos of people getting nearly gored by trying to take a selfie with a F'n Buffalo up in Wyoming yesterday?

I mean honestly I sort of feel bad for these Governors because there is like 20% of the country that is really just too stupid to help themselves..And we expect anyone to take things seriously?

We should stop putting guardrail up on roads too, just too many F'n people here..


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> Has anyone seen the recent (2) videos of people getting nearly gored by trying to take a selfie with a F'n Buffalo up in Wyoming yesterday?
> 
> I mean honestly I sort of feel bad for these Governors because there is like 20% of the country that is really just too stupid to help themselves..And we expect anyone to take things seriously?
> 
> We should stop putting guardrail up on roads too, just too many F'n people here..


But we don't put guardrail in a lot of places we normally would when it's located in USFS because of viewshed, so I think the forest service is implementing your plan.


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## BirdGrave

Road Guy said:


> Has anyone seen the recent (2) videos of people getting nearly gored by trying to take a selfie with a F'n Buffalo up in Wyoming yesterday?
> 
> I mean honestly I sort of feel bad for these Governors because there is like 20% of the country that is really just too stupid to help themselves..And we expect anyone to take things seriously?
> 
> We should stop putting guardrail up on roads too, just too many F'n people here..


There's just a large percentage of the population which feels wearing a mask is an inconvenience that is incongruent with the standard of living they're supposed to have as Americans.  From a public health standpoint I agree it's wrong, but it's not surprising.


----------



## Road Guy

I’m really starting to think you need a mask less when at the store and more when you visit family and have a cookout, most of the people we know that have had it got it at a small family or friends gathering.


----------



## Dleg

I agree. Same thing here. Our most recent outbreak was traced back to a handful of funerals. Now everything is shut down again for 2 weeks.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

Forbes article on changing the built environment to improve ventilation and filtration for COVID-19 and all future viruses. I don't think the analogy to sewage and water treatment is really correct.  And it seems expensive as hell. But maybe I could see this phasing in over time... thoughts?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2020/08/11/engineering-solutions-may-be-better-for-coronavirus-than-social-ones/


----------



## Supe

I think you'd develop some sort of herd immunity before you could design and implement a system that could be retrofitted anywhere, even if you offered it for free.


----------



## Supe

It's really amazing just how much history repeats itself.  See these snippets on the Karen Movement of 1918/1919 for people vehemently opposed to the mask ordinance issued to fight a huge surge in deaths due to the Spanish Flu.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Supe said:


> It's really amazing just how much history repeats itself.  See these snippets on the Karen Movement of 1918/1919 for people vehemently opposed to the mask ordinance issued to fight a huge surge in deaths due to the Spanish Flu.


@JayKay PE just brought this up in the count to 100,000 thread since we hit 1918 and counting.



JayKay PE said:


>


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; that one killed like 50 million?

The Spanish flu also killed both my grandfathers parents (They had just immigrated here from Italy) and his brother and sister. He never talked about anything from his childhood- only from when he got drafted for WW2 and later, its pretty bad if WWII was a brighter memory spot than your childhood..


----------



## Supe

Dothracki said:


> @JayKay PE just brought this up in the count to 100,000 thread since we hit 1918 and counting.


I actually came across the anti-maskers when searching for the 1919 image.


----------



## Orchid PE

I wish we could go back to the times when _health_ inspectors carried guns to enforce ordinances that protect lives....


----------



## Road Guy

Some, such as the ones who investigate Criminal Wrongdoing through FDA carry weapons, but I dont know if I want the local dude / dudette who graduated with a C in Biology from Community College parading as the local expert on health ( in between meals at McDonald's) going around with a firearm...


----------



## Orchid PE

/s


----------



## Road Guy

lol roger...


----------



## Road Guy

Do you all think the density of an area make it much worse or better in terms of spreading the Covid???

We went under a "mask order" here in CO on July 12th I think - It seems to be working. But we dont have the same density as other places on East Coast or California -

Since the CO masks "mandate" - Which I think was geared more towards vacationers here who were not wearing masks (is what was mentioned by the Gov) - Before this order you might see 1-2 people in the grocery store with no mask in the general Denver area.




California went under a statewide mask order (I think) around June 12th (red arrow), is it either not working or taking much longer due to the higher density of their large cities?




Ill look up Texas later for comparison, trying to think of a similar sized state with a mask "order" -


----------



## Dleg

I think there are a bunch of different things that influence cases. You would think masks would help, and that greater densities of people would make the virus spread faster. But honestly Lis Angeles isn't any more dense than Denver, just bigger. Maybe there are more cultural differences at play? I actually haven't heard much about why California is spiking, which is surprising because I think they're still "number one". I hear from my work contacts in San Francisco that there really isn't much of a problem in that city, it's all location dependent. In their case, they say Oakland is where the biggest numbers are, IIRC.  Which again makes me think there are some cultural issues at play, and that could include larger numbers and densities of "essential workers" in those areas, compared to the elites in San Francisco.  And Denver


----------



## Road Guy

I don’t know when I go to LA it is way more crowded than Denver - Denver is still fairly small comparatively to other big cities.

I see the cultural argument being made however I think it’s really “the number of people who share the same roof” = More potential for exposure. 

I also think it’s similar for areas with lots of high rises, condos, townhomes, high density development where you have to use elevators and are generally a lot closer to other people also contributes. There were many developments built in Denver that provided no parking - was meant to be right on the transit line.


I was glad my eldest went back to SD. His girlfriend was living in her house where her grandparents live plus her 3 brothers, mom and dad, just too many people. And they were entertaining other family a lot.

But I am just intrigued by the data mainly. I think in general California is probably too big of a state to control- similar to the US. Too many people to really be able to control.

I still can’t find the Texas data- come on people 3 click rule!


----------



## Orchid PE

So my grandmother ended up testing negative for covid. Though, if she did get it she'd probably be fine and beat it. Her and the grim reaper are on a first name basis, and he's getting tired of just visiting.

We ended up driving down Friday afternoon to visit just in case. She hadn't seen the new baby and hadn't seen my daughter since a year ago. Took baby girl to the beach for the first time and she loved it, yet I was reminded of how much I hate the beach. FYI, it's not fun cleaning sand off a toddler.

There was no social distancing at the main beaches. Literally strangers were just all tanning and swimming all up next to each other, and when there were jellyfish everyone was huddled together on the shore because they all wanted to see them.

Charlotte (mind you only 20 months old) just put on her swimsuit by herself and got her bucket because she wanted to go collect more seashells (we're back in TN).

Was REALLY nice having the grandparents baby sit. Might need to reconsider this whole living on our own thing lol


----------



## Road Guy

Glad your grandma is negative! 

When we went (mid June) to visit my parents and then to the Keys we went to Honeymoon Island, it was like you describe.

I dont really care for the beach but I am a fan of the ocean.

Its tough to not have grandparents around when kids are little - mine were not great at being grandparents but they would at least take them for a day here and there.


----------



## Road Guy

ok, I know this is hard America, but if everyone could just keep doing whatever you have been doing since around July 25th, maybe we can push out of this... I know its a lot to ask... lol


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

This is very concerning for ever achieving "herd immunity."




https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/hong-kong-man-was-reinfected-coronavirus-researchers-say-n1237840


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> This is very concerning for ever achieving "herd immunity."
> 
> View attachment 18463
> 
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/hong-kong-man-was-reinfected-coronavirus-researchers-say-n1237840


I'm no immunologist, but this seems to make sense if there are multiple strings floating around. Makes herd immunity difficult, and explains why we don't have herd immunity from influenza.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong)


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> I'm no immunologist, but this seems to make sense if there are multiple strings floating around. Makes herd immunity difficult, and explains why we don't have herd immunity from influenza.
> 
> (Please correct me if I'm wrong)


Also not an expert, but this is my understanding... 

Once you get any virus you can't get that same virus again.But there can be different strains of the same virus which means you can get it again if you catch a different strain. And many viruses mutate over time.That's why there's a "flu season" every year. The influenza virus has a regular mutation schedule of ~1 year. With the flu vaccine, they try to identify the 3 or 4 most common strains that year and create a vaccine to immunize you for specifically those strains. Which is why it's possible to get the flu shot and still get the flu, because you caught a different strain.Contrast that to chicken pox for example which is basically one and done. No various strains, no mutation, so you get it once and your immune forever.


----------



## Road Guy

article was pretty interesting, it said the second infection was asymptomatic? 

also the guy had been to Hong Kong, UK, and Spain in the recent weeks, and here I am feeling bad going to the mountains to get away from the kids for a weekend..


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> Also not an expert, but this is my understanding...
> 
> Once you get any virus you can't get that same virus again.But there can be different strains of the same virus which means you can get it again if you catch a different strain. And many viruses mutate over time.That's why there's a "flu season" every year. The influenza virus has a regular mutation schedule of ~1 year. With the flu vaccine, they try to identify the 3 or 4 most common strains that year and create a vaccine to immunize you for specifically those strains. Which is why it's possible to get the flu shot and still get the flu, because you caught a different strain.Contrast that to chicken pox for example which is basically one and done. No various strains, no mutation, so you get it once and your immune forever.


Looks like our understanding is the same. Thanks!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

From a vaccine standpoint, having multiple stable strains of the coronavirus would be much better than having a virus that mutates quickly.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

jean15paul_PE said:


> From a vaccine standpoint, having multiple stable strains of the coronavirus would be much better than having a virus that mutates quickly.


Agreed. Unfortunately, early indicators made it seem like COVID was fast-mutating. Which would be a problem.


----------



## Orchid PE

My parents were told they only have "immunity" for about 3 months after they recovered. After that they're open to getting sick again, because the virus mutates.


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Chattaneer PE said:


> My parents were told they only have "immunity" for about 3 months after they recovered. After that they're open to getting sick again, because the virus mutates.


I'm really curious about how that works. Is that the mutation rate of the virus?


----------



## Orchid PE

ChebyshevII PE said:


> I'm really curious about how that works. Is that the mutation rate of the virus?


 Idk. I'm just a lowly engineer. I wish I knew more about the chemistries.


----------



## RBHeadge PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> My parents were told they only have "immunity" for about 3 months after they recovered. After that they're open to getting sick again, because the virus mutates.


The headline literature on this is a bit misleading. The recent study(s) have shown that immunity last at *least* three months; which is not the same as saying that immunity expires *at* three months. The reasons for the three month timetable is because that's how long the researchers have only been able to reliably study those who were infected. It is possible, and likely, that the immunity will last longer but that can't be proven until people have been monitored for the same period of time. FWIW studies of SARS and MERS patients have shown that the antibodies stick around for many years.

*All this assumes that no major mutations occur. But of course the same can be said for most viruses.


----------



## Orchid PE

RBHeadge PE said:


> The headline literature on this is a bit misleading. The recent study(s) have shown that immunity last at *least* three months; which is not the same as saying that immunity expires *at* three months. The reasons for the three month timetable is because that's how long the researchers have only been able to reliably study those who were infected. It is possible, and likely, that the immunity will last longer but that can't be proven until people have been monitored for the same period of time. FWIW studies of SARS and MERS patients have shown that the antibodies stick around for many years.
> 
> *All this assumes that no major mutations occur. But of course the same can be said for most viruses.


I'm just reiterating what their doctors told them. I'm going with what the doctors say.


----------



## kevo_55

Enough of this serious stuff. Let's get this thread back on track.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Dleg

I heard some discussion of the Hong Kong guy with the 2nd infection this morning. One talking point is that this is just one person - not exactly a robust case study in biostatistics. The other talking point was that he was asymptomatic with his second infection, so that might be an indicator that he does have some immunity that has resulted in a much milder case than his first.

Here is a great, positive read here from last week in the New York Times, summarizing some recent (peer reviewed) studies that suggest immunity may last far beyond the current 2-3 months that antibodies show up in blood samples:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/health/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.html


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Road Guy

2 soon?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18499


good advice


----------



## Road Guy

I cant stand golf, but one of my few pleasures this summer is on 5 occasions as I drove through the back of the neighborhood (Due to road construction) one of the tee boxes is right by the road, and well there is nothing like a well placed horn blast right as some boomer or frat boy home for the summer is about to tee off...


----------



## Supe

Even better is going golfing, and slicing so hard off the tee that you can hear the hole you just put in some guy's hardiplank siding echoing back from 100 yards away.


----------



## Violator

Walgreens


----------



## snickerd3

Saw a lot of these at Six Flags last weekend  


My chin is breaking out just looking at it


----------



## Violator

that's defin different!


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Came up with this one myself, think Mary Poppins.

Chim-chiminy, chim-chiminy 

Chim, chim, cheroo,

COVID will rub off when I shakes hands with you!

Or blow me a kiss...

...and that’s COVID too!


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> Even better is going golfing, and slicing so hard off the tee that you can hear the hole you just put in some guy's hardiplank siding echoing back from 100 yards away.


Most times i prove Mark Twain right about golf, " a good walk spoiled"

Funny though the best round I ever had was on a course designed by a pro golfer, not the "easy" public courses


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE

Today is the first day back in the office. Just going to be here for a few days to install some new RTACs, then working from the house again.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> View attachment 18555


Count the OSHA violations


----------



## Violator

View attachment 18562


----------



## jeb6294

Chattaneer PE said:


> View attachment 18554


Took me a second, but....


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Supe

I'll sooner kill and eat a person before I touch the doggos.  The doggos need to eat too.


----------



## Road Guy

Id kill and eat my neighbors dog to be honest..


----------



## Supe

Well, if its less than 50 pounds, it's not really a dog according to Ron Swanson anyways.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Id kill and eat my neighbors dog to be honest..


Both of my neighbors dogs are so small I don't know how useful it would be. But the one that barks at any and everything would definitely go first.


----------



## csb

Dleg said:


> I think there are a bunch of different things that influence cases. You would think masks would help, and that greater densities of people would make the virus spread faster. But honestly Lis Angeles isn't any more dense than Denver, just bigger. Maybe there are more cultural differences at play? I actually haven't heard much about why California is spiking, which is surprising because I think they're still "number one". I hear from my work contacts in San Francisco that there really isn't much of a problem in that city, it's all location dependent. In their case, they say Oakland is where the biggest numbers are, IIRC.  Which again makes me think there are some cultural issues at play, and that could include larger numbers and densities of "essential workers" in those areas, compared to the elites in San Francisco.  And Denver


Orange County, home of rich housewives and Disneyland, has had a ton of anti-mask rallies. I also would like to see the ratio of service-industry jobs compared to Denver. 



kevo_55 said:


> Enough of this serious stuff. Let's get this thread back on track.


So the local distillery made the sanitizer for our kid's school and the whole place smells like cheap vodka.


----------



## Road Guy

even if you take out all of OC's cases (48K) Cali is still leading all States in Cases at just under 700K?  I dont think a few "rallies" of angry Pumpkin Spice Girls is causing them to stay up there..

I stil feel Denver metro area is still fairly blue collar (compared to my only other experince in Atlanta) But i dont know if by service industry you mean like restaurants or say tradiitonal blue collar jobs like O&amp;G, Construction, etc.

I have  to say Cali has the coolest data chart I have seen of any state yet:

https://public.tableau.com/views/COVID-19CasesDashboard_15931020425010/Cases?%3Aembed=y&amp;%3AshowVizHome=no


----------



## Orchid PE

Our local distilleries did the same. It's not the best quality stuff. One of them we're using at work leaves a weird residue on your hands. Definitely not the quality of germ-x.


----------



## Orchid PE

HR Just sent out and email stating we will begin disconnects for non-pays beginning Oct 1st. Originally all cuts had been suspended because of corona, with people losing their jobs and wanting to keep our employees away from other people. Plus it was summer and we didn't want too many people without power during the hot days. It will be interesting to see how the cuts will affect the community. We'll probably get some negative news stories come out. We still have a good amount of people without jobs and not paying their power bills. And that's just a little more revenue we've lost of the past few months.

Unemployment rate in the area:

Feb 2020: 3.6%
Mar 2020: 3.3%
Apr 2020: 13.2%
May 2020: 9.1%
Jun 2020: 8.1%
Jul 2020: 7.9%


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> HR Just sent out and email stating we will begin disconnects for non-pays beginning Oct 1st. Originally all cuts had been suspended because of corona, with people losing their jobs and wanting to keep our employees away from other people. Plus it was summer and we didn't want too many people without power during the hot days. It will be interesting to see how the cuts will affect the community. We'll probably get some negative news stories come out. We still have a good amount of people without jobs and not paying their power bills. And that's just a little more revenue we've lost of the past few months.
> 
> Unemployment rate in the area:
> 
> Feb 2020: 3.6%
> Mar 2020: 3.3%
> Apr 2020: 13.2%
> May 2020: 9.1%
> Jun 2020: 8.1%
> Jul 2020: 7.9%


What the odds the local government intervenes?


----------



## Orchid PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> What the odds the local government intervenes?


Not sure. I know we are legally required to cut customers that don't pay, and being a municipality we're owned by the city.


----------



## Dothracki PE

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> even if you take out all of OC's cases (48K) Cali is still leading all States in Cases at just under 700K?  I dont think a few "rallies" of angry Pumpkin Spice Girls is causing them to stay up there..
> 
> I stil feel Denver metro area is still fairly blue collar (compared to my only other experince in Atlanta) But i dont know if by service industry you mean like restaurants or say tradiitonal blue collar jobs like O&amp;G, Construction, etc.
> 
> I have  to say Cali has the coolest data chart I have seen of any state yet:
> 
> https://public.tableau.com/views/COVID-19CasesDashboard_15931020425010/Cases?%3Aembed=y&amp;%3AshowVizHome=no


I mean restaurants and hotels and whatnot. I feel like the exposure in a restaurant is definitely different than a construction site. 



Dothracki said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
> 
> View attachment 18634


Gosh. It's like there was a large event in South Dakota...


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know if restaurants have been as big a spreader as people originally thought to be honest?

But as long as we wear our mask for 20 seconds walking in to our table and take it off eat, then put it back on when you go to the latrine its okay? (I hope we can all agree that logic is pretty dumb, thats what our state is doing, dont know about others)

*We are still only eating outside personally* -


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> I dont know if restaurants have been as big a spreader as people originally thought to be honest?
> 
> But as long as we wear our mask for 20 seconds walking in to our table and take it off eat, then put it back on when you go to the latrine its okay? (I hope we can all agree that logic is pretty dumb, thats what our state is doing, dont know about others)
> 
> *We are still only eating outside personally* -


I think it makes a lot of sense to keep your mask on as your passing by other people


----------



## Violator




----------



## Supe

Well, it's good to know that we should be seeing an uptick in OnlyFans accounts from the great state of Montana.  

I'm also glad Wyoming is sticking to the real issues.


----------



## csb

I'm kinda proud of Michigan. They took baking in a new direction.


----------



## Road Guy

Violator said:


> View attachment 18640


@knight1fox3would be proud...

but at the same time thats also kind of vanilla...


----------



## Road Guy

quarantine at the ADP house?


----------



## Supe

csb said:


> I'm kinda proud of Michigan. They took baking in a new direction.


I'm also impressed by South Carolina - most sophisticated they've come across in a long time.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> @knight1fox3would be proud...
> 
> but at the same time thats also kind of vanilla...


Disappointed in Wisconsin Home of Miller Beer and the top search  is a mixed drink


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> quarantine at the ADP house?
> 
> View attachment 18642


Yes. Booking flight to Athens GA now


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Curious where this search data came from #skeptical


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> HR Just sent out and email stating we will begin disconnects for non-pays beginning Oct 1st. Originally all cuts had been suspended because of corona, with people losing their jobs and wanting to keep our employees away from other people. Plus it was summer and we didn't want too many people without power during the hot days. It will be interesting to see how the cuts will affect the community. We'll probably get some negative news stories come out. We still have a good amount of people without jobs and not paying their power bills. And that's just a little more revenue we've lost of the past few months.
> 
> Unemployment rate in the area:
> 
> Feb 2020: 3.6%
> Mar 2020: 3.3%
> Apr 2020: 13.2%
> May 2020: 9.1%
> Jun 2020: 8.1%
> Jul 2020: 7.9%


I work for a water/sewer utility. Shutoffs suspended until at least end of calendar year

My most recent electric bill said electric shutoffs would begin again where allowed. Parent company owns utilities in multiple states.


----------



## csb

Platypus Engineer said:


> Disappointed in Wisconsin Home of Miller Beer and the top search  is a mixed drink


I'd like to point out that in Wisconsin Bloody Mary's come with a beer chaser. You get your drink and then a little beer. It's everywhere.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> I'd like to point out that in Wisconsin Bloody Mary's come with a beer chaser. You get your drink and then a little beer. It's everywhere.


Thanks for update


----------



## Violator

We may be able to enjoy Halloween for once this year


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> I dont know if restaurants have been as big a spreader as people originally thought to be honest?
> 
> But as long as we wear our mask for 20 seconds walking in to our table and take it off eat, then put it back on when you go to the latrine its okay? (I hope we can all agree that logic is pretty dumb, thats what our state is doing, dont know about others)
> 
> *We are still only eating outside personally* -


What we saw here is that there were some cases traced back to restaurants, but mostly restaurants that "weren't following the rules". Contact tracing from our current outbreak shows that the top three contributors were (in order) funerals, family gatherings, and church gatherings.

I'm wondering if the limited restaurant spread maybe shows that COVID is not quite as "airborne" as some fear, and that the 6 feet social distancing is actually pretty effective?  We probably won't know until this is all over, but would be good to know what current contact tracing results from around the whole country are pointing at.


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> View attachment 18668


not enough barbs on wire


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Orchid PE

he underestimated how much the internet has desensitized humans.

Doesn't even deserve a capital h.


----------



## Dleg

Well this could be the end. Not just Snake Jesus, but seven of them.


----------



## Road Guy

This is the most Karen thing I have seen all year...


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> This is the most Karen thing I have seen all year...
> 
> View attachment 18678


----------



## Road Guy

A Karen in one state can likely be different than a Karen in another state (when it comes to the rona)


----------



## Dleg

I might pick up a few of these as gifts.


----------



## Road Guy

A dude can also be a Karen...


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Pretty fair assesment


----------



## Platypus Engineer

First link links to other two. A rather damning assesment of approach. The open letter to Fauci is harsh, deservedly so in my opinion.

FYI two of the three sites have a conservative lean.

https://townhall.com/columnists/gilgutknecht/2020/09/13/why-more-americans-distrusts-the-experts-n2576111

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

https://spectator.org/questions-for-dr-fauci/


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> This is the most Karen thing I have seen all year...
> 
> View attachment 18678


Just good old American capitalism at work. See a business opportunity, take advantage of it.


----------



## Road Guy

^- its in a very high end mall in "Progressive Denver"


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> ^- its in a very high end mall in "Progressive Denver"


Oh, maybe government owned ?

On  a side note, University of MD has 133 positive tests out of 19,000, a 0.7 % rate. But only 15 % percent of classes will be in person. And I saw last week that one of thethings that caused spread was colleges sending students home.


----------



## Road Guy

Thats about the same for my kids college, around 0.8% positive - It is really dumb IMO to send a bunch of young kids home from college (at that rate of infection) if they get infected because it does spread the spread - They havent forced anyone to go home but some have chose to go home to quarantine, probably at the request of their moms to be honest  - about half of there classes are "remote"

what they are seeing at my sons college is that (most) of the younger people are getting over it much sooner than the standard 14 days as compared to the folks in there 50's


----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Thats about the same for my kids college, around 0.8% positive - It is really dumb IMO to send a bunch of young kids home from college (at that rate of infection) if they get infected because it does spread the spread - They havent forced anyone to go home but some have chose to go home to quarantine, probably at the requestr of their mom to be honest  - about half of there classes are "remote"
> 
> what they are seeing at my sons college is that (most) of the younger people are getting over it much sooner than the standard 14 days as compared to the folks in there 50's


Honestly I dont see how remote learning works for science / engineering classes, especially if there is a lab involved. And based on what my brother's high school age kids told me about how labs were done, not really learning anything.


----------



## Road Guy

So I have one kid away at college and one living at home and going to college at the moment

The older one is at an engineering school and they have mostly left it up to the prof to decide if its in person or on line, (most of the profs arent the most healthy group of people on the planet if we are being honest) but they are doing the labs in person - and usually using a TA or someone to "teach" the lab portions.

For the one I have living at home they are 100% online except for labs, so she has a chemistry lab and some other class she goes in to once a week -


----------



## Violator




----------



## Orchid PE

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/chinese-virologist-posts-report-claiming-covid-19-was-made-in-wuhan-lab/

So we got ourselves a real life umbrella corp.


----------



## Road Guy

Hope Dr Yan doesnt have any family left in China...


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

Whats sort of funny is now there are cases of the surgical masks everyhwere you go and it appears they are not really big sellers (too much supply)- but I have been doing a bunch of staining for a little woodworking project and I cant find those blue latex painting gloves anywhere - I also like to wear them when I change the oil and perform other maintenance BS on my families fleet of vehicles.  I had a decent supply a few years ago....


----------



## Dothracki PE

Gloves are going to be in short supply now with schools reopening for in-person learning.


----------



## Road Guy

really hope they are not wearing gloves in schools (not that my staining project is more important) but I dont see much of a point to it. If we were getting it by touch Id say we would all been goners long ago..


----------



## blybrook PE

I'm about out of my supply of those 5mil nitrile gloves as well, down to my last box. Couldn't find them my last trip outside either. 

I did find some one size fits all nitrile gloves at Home Depot a few weeks back. I was able to grab two boxes at the time (16.99/100). They're a hair looser than I'd like, but slightly better quality than the Hardy 5mil from Harbor Freight in the right size.


----------



## Road Guy

There is a "secret hallway" at the wifes work between the ICU and the OR's / ED (Why they stopped calling it the ER i'll never know) but she said out of curiosity she took a clorex wipe and ran it down the handrail on the wall and said it looked like it hadnt been cleaned since before all this shit started...


----------



## leggo PE

I have some of those non-powdered ones that I picked up when I started my on-demand sourdough pastry course... They were recommended for use when handling super sticky enriched doughs, like brioche. I plan to reserve them for that! I still have to learn how to make sourdough danishes and, the holy grail, sourdough croissants!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> ...(Why they stopped calling it the ER i'll never know)...



Because it's not really a "room" in most hospitals like back in the day.
and

Because they want it to be on equal stature of the cardiac department, and the ob department, etc


----------



## Road Guy

So now everyone will think that is where you go to get your Erectile Dysfunction taken care of!

I dont know anyone who ever thought "less" of the ER- but I have met more  Neuro and Cardiac Surgeons than I care to honestly and they will tell you that in fact their shit doesnt stink and they are better than anyone else in the hospital. No matter what they change the signs to say...


----------



## Orchid PE

Well, after my wife forced us to watch grey's anatomy, I'd have to agree with them. Dr. Shepherd was bad motherfucker with a scalpel.


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> So now everyone will think that is where you go to get your Erectile Dysfunction taken care of!


It's not an emergency, until it is!!!

I'm hearing that there is a supply chain issue with gloves now. So don't expect to find any, any time soon. And I honestly don't know why people would be using them so much, outside of health care. I don't see any real protective advantage to wearing them to ward off COVID-19. You don't catch it through your skin, and you will catch it just as easily from touching your face with a contaminated glove as you will an ungloved hand. So just wash your damn hands, people, and leave the gloves for the health care workers and DIY-ers.


----------



## Road Guy

Ohh the things we used to take for granted.....


----------



## wilheldp_PE

Dleg said:


> It's not an emergency, until it is!!!
> 
> I'm hearing that there is a supply chain issue with gloves now. So don't expect to find any, any time soon. And I honestly don't know why people would be using them so much, outside of health care. I don't see any real protective advantage to wearing them to ward off COVID-19. You don't catch it through your skin, and you will catch it just as easily from touching your face with a contaminated glove as you will an ungloved hand. So just wash your damn hands, people, and leave the gloves for the health care workers and DIY-ers.


We're talking about the same people that hoarded toilet paper for a respiratory virus.  Not the sharpest tools in the shed.


----------



## jeb6294

blybrook PE said:


> slightly better quality than the Hardy 5mil from Harbor Freight in the right size.


I've still got most of one of the big boxes of the Harbor Freight gloves. I forget which ones I got, but I think they were one step below the thick black ones. They also came in sizes which was nice because the, supposed, one size fits all are not for people with big hands. Got mine when I got the smoker so I can handle my meat without making a mess of my hands....


----------



## Road Guy

too soon?


----------



## txjennah PE

Dleg said:


> It's not an emergency, until it is!!!
> 
> I'm hearing that there is a supply chain issue with gloves now. So don't expect to find any, any time soon. And I honestly don't know why people would be using them so much, outside of health care. I don't see any real protective advantage to wearing them to ward off COVID-19. You don't catch it through your skin, and you will catch it just as easily from touching your face with a contaminated glove as you will an ungloved hand. So just wash your damn hands, people, and leave the gloves for the health care workers and DIY-ers.


Yeah I mean.....if they paid even a little attention, then they would know that there is low risk of fomite transmission. We've known this for........months now.


----------



## Road Guy

you still see quite a few of the older folks wearing them around here - the purple ones too

When I see wait staff wearing gloves it sort of makes it obvvious they are not washing hands and just transmitting stuff from table to table - I suppose that protects them as long as they can refrain from touching themselves, which we all know is pretty much impossible...

I indulged in a "Slurpee" on the car ride home yesterday, there was an old guy in there who grabbed a napkin and then was trying to get a coke and an ice cream out of the freezer without touching anything, it was a comical site and I just wanted to say dude if you are really that worried then you really should not be in a 7-Elevan cause these places are dirty shit holes...


----------



## kevo_55

I know who I'm going as this Halloween.


----------



## Violator

Like the Karens are going to allow any trick or treating this year!


----------



## Orchid PE

The Karens are straight up trick or treating this year, but without masks.


----------



## Road Guy

If 2020 was a foot


----------



## Road Guy

Look at all these Eurpoean Countries trying to be like Merica! :holyness:

Gonna be a weird cycle, right now we cant go there, soon they wont be able to come here, see saw see saw..

But what made me look at these is my niece is a Delta Flight Attendant who has been flying overseas since air traffic here is still pretty dissmal  but she said most European countries they arent even requiring masks on the plane?  Not sure if it was just the booze talking but anyone been overseas lately by chance?

Stole these from the google but left row, Spain, The French, UK, Right side,  USA , Germany, meant to grab Canada's it looks a little on the uptick too


----------



## Dleg

Yeah I didn't know that was happening, either, until I saw a headline today. Looks like they're on their way to a second wave that looks to be bigger than the first....


----------



## JayKay PE

Dleg said:


> Yeah I didn't know that was happening, either, until I saw a headline today. Looks like they're on their way to a second wave that looks to be bigger than the first....


But isn't that was predicted/expected?  A triple wave, with the middle wave more intense due to it also being flu season?  That's one of the things I was told when the facility first started going into lock-down/what a bunch of the nurses were saying.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont believe anyone really knows, it just sort of has to burn out like the other ones


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> If 2020 was a foot
> 
> View attachment 18737


Did you find that at peopleofwalmart.com


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> too soon?
> 
> View attachment 18732


As long as it is poking fun at gender reveals it is ok.


----------



## Dleg

I'd be interested in seeing how the flu season impacts the COVID pandemic. I saw headlines for a couple of articles over the past couple of weeks that indicated some southern hemisphere countries essentially had no flu season this "winter", probably because of social distancing/lockdowns. But where I am, we have already begun to see lab-confirmed cases of influenza showing up at the hospitals.


----------



## Supe

Dleg said:


> I'd be interested in seeing how the flu season impacts the COVID pandemic. I saw headlines for a couple of articles over the past couple of weeks that indicated some southern hemisphere countries essentially had no flu season this "winter", probably because of social distancing/lockdowns. But where I am, we have already begun to see lab-confirmed cases of influenza showing up at the hospitals.


I think we'll see a small spike in the numbers.  People who would not normally go for COVID testing due and otherwise be mild/asymptomatic will get tested when they have the regular flu and increase the number of positives.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Louisiana is allowing bar exam to be done by email with no monitoring:

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=15659

try that with PE


----------



## Dleg

Because everyone knows lawyers can be trusted not to cheat.


----------



## Supe

Couple thousand new juniors are about to join Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## csb

Dleg said:


> View attachment 18769


This made me laugh so hard!


----------



## Dothracki PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> Louisiana is allowing bar exam to be done by email with no monitoring:
> 
> https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=15659
> 
> try that with PE


Wow...


----------



## Exengineer

It will be interesting to see how compliance with health directives goes in 2021 with many growing weary of the masking, social distancing, waiting in long lines, etc.  There have been many protests against this in countries like Australia, New Zealand, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Great Britain.  Probably more that are not being covered by the media.  Locking down entire populations was a mistake that will be paid for one way or another in the future.  Quarantine is for the sick and those at serious risk, NOT for every citizen!  If national leaders cannot think of a better way to handle a viral outbreak in the future, they are not smart enough to hold office and should be removed, bodily if necessary.  This has become enforced socialism with government money in virtually every business and almost everyone has become a government employee in the process.  Either paid not to work or subsidized by government due to reduction in working hours.  Very poor worldwide response to something that was never as dangerous as had been predicted.


----------



## snickerd3

next years vacation was going to be international (new zealand most likely), but since this years vacation got cancelled we need to do this year's trip next year.  hopefully things will be better by then


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dleg

I wonder if they cut the tongue holes into their masks, or if they just let the juices dissolve them?


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Orchid PE

Don't threaten me with a good time.


----------



## NikR_PE

Road Guy said:


> View attachment 18845


https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/09/15/are-there-covid-19-cases-in-your-community-the-answer-is-in-your-sewers/


----------



## csb

NikR_PE said:


> https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/09/15/are-there-covid-19-cases-in-your-community-the-answer-is-in-your-sewers/


Once again it's on civil engineers to save everyone from the plague.


----------



## Violator

But we all know some politician will take the credit  :BS:


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dothracki PE

Interesting article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/22/africa-has-defied-covid-19-nightmare-scenarios-we-shouldnt-be-surprised/?utm_source=pocket-newtab


----------



## Dleg

That is interesting, but I have two thoughts:

1. Africa shouldn't be congratulating themselves yet. This isn't over (look at India - they were slow to take off but now their numbers are crazy).

2. The age structure / demographics in Africa may explain most of the difference in death toll. Regardless of political correctness, Africa still remains a place where people just don't live that long. See the population pyramid:




Compare this to the US: 







There are simply more old people in the US than there are in Africa. From that alone, we should expect a higher death rate in the US compared to Africa. The so-far lower death rates in India may also be attributed to this, to a great extent:


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Morning


----------



## Violator

Its for the best


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Preach on. Current society is not allowing Darwinism to work


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Platypus Engineer said:


> Louisiana is allowing bar exam to be done by email with no monitoring:
> 
> https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=15659
> 
> try that with PE






Dothracki said:


> Wow...


Yea, I have a couple of certifications through a professional society, and they dont even provide course manuals in advance anymore. Exams are closed book now also.


----------



## Road Guy

I didnt do a CTRL -F on the Constitution to see if this is in there but I am assuming its not?

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/enforcement-challenges-associated-with-banning-young-adults-from-gathering-in-boulder/


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> I didnt do a CTRL -F on the Constitution to see if this is in there but I am assuming its not?
> 
> https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/enforcement-challenges-associated-with-banning-young-adults-from-gathering-in-boulder/


I am not sure either. what if state orders conflict with federal law, federal law is supposed to take precedence.

But as I have said before, I think there are some civil liberties issues that need to be addressed regarding this.


----------



## Road Guy

A City even - (like the lowest form of Government available) IMO a City is like one notch above a HOA....

I mean I get it, but this just doesnt sounds very enforceable to say a certain age group of people cant do something that other people can?  

Just leave all their asses together on campus for a few weeks and they should push through it  - All those God Damned Bible Thumpers in Boulder not listening to science!


----------



## Road Guy

Dleg said:


> That is interesting, but I have two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Africa shouldn't be congratulating themselves yet. This isn't over (look at India - they were slow to take off but now their numbers are crazy).
> 
> 2. The age structure / demographics in Africa may explain most of the difference in death toll. Regardless of political correctness, Africa still remains a place where people just don't live that long. See the population pyramid:
> 
> View attachment 18865
> 
> 
> Compare this to the US:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are simply more old people in the US than there are in Africa. From that alone, we should expect a higher death rate in the US compared to Africa. The so-far lower death rates in India may also be attributed to this, to a great extent:


Is it odd that the US Pyramid is shaped like the averager person in the US? 

Is there one of these for China?  I had heard the men significantly outnumber the ladies there?


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> A City even - (like the lowest form of Government available) IMO a City is like one notch above a HOA....
> 
> I mean I get it, but this just doesnt sounds very enforceable to say a certain age group of people cant do something that other people can?
> 
> Just leave all their asses together on campus for a few weeks and they should push through it  - All those God Damned Bible Thumpers in Boulder not listening to science!


When I think of bible thumping towns, Boulder doesnt exactly come to mind


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Platypus Engineer said:


> Road Guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those God Damned Bible Thumpers in Boulder not listening to science!
> 
> 
> 
> When I think of bible thumping towns, Boulder doesnt exactly come to mind
Click to expand...

Maybe he's thinking Colorado Springs?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

ChebyshevII PE said:


> Maybe he's thinking Colorado Springs?


In that part of world, I would probably put Provo or Salt Lake City first


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Platypus Engineer said:


> In that part of world, I would probably put Provo or Salt Lake City first


Obviously. I was thinking specifically within CO state.


----------



## Road Guy

Sorry I was being sarcastic   (just though it would come through)


----------



## ChebyshevII PE PMP

Road Guy said:


> Sorry I was being sarcastic   (just though it would come through)


We're engineers. We're illiterate of sarcasm not originating from ourselves.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Sorry I was being sarcastic   (just though it would come through)






ChebyshevII PE said:


> We're engineers. We're illiterate of sarcasm not originating from ourselves.


No problem. But the contrast in schools that are in Boulder and Colorado Springs are pretty extreme.


----------



## Road Guy

Even though they are the Chair Force, Ill take the Chair Force Academy over CU.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Something to think about (FYI, site leans conservative)

https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/09/28/what-if-the-media-politicians-and-our-medical-overlords-reacted-to-a-common-cold-like-they-have-to-coronavirus-n2577028


----------



## Dleg

Sure. I think we should start to overthrow building codes, seatbelt laws, speed limits. I didn't find any of those in the constitution either.


----------



## Orchid PE

So if we put restrictions on a specific age range of adults, how is that different from restricting different races or genders from gathering?


----------



## Road Guy

this is telling folks they can’t get together in their own home..

but I don’t need a license, insurance, emissions, or seat belts if I drive my car on my own property- only need that stuff on someone else’s land.

Its funny this is how people in the peoples republic of boulder choose to live.

i think they would have banned fire in the caveman days.


----------



## Dleg

Is it legal to give a 12 year old girl whiskey get her shitfaced, as long as it is in your own home? And if that's illegal, isn't that discriminatory against people under the age of 21? Or females?

Sometimes society has to pull together to control situations that are deemed inappropriate or, in this case, dangerous for everyone else until a vaccine is available or the disease stops spreading. It confuses me why so many people have gotten themselves wrapped around the axle on this, and seemingly forgotten the myriad of everyday things that have been controlled by local and state governments, even since before the Revolutionary War. Which, by the way, was not fought in the name of anarchy.


----------



## Orchid PE

Dleg said:


> And if that's illegal, isn't that discriminatory against people under the age of 21?


It is. And that's why the drinking age should be 18.


----------



## Orchid PE

I can't believe our own admin brought up such a polarizing topic!


----------



## txjennah PE

The common cold didn't kill as many people in the past six months like coronavirus has. I couldn't even make it past the headline. Next.


----------



## Orchid PE

Well, the author states



> COVID-19 is more dangerous overall than a common rhinovirus


I like reading about covid from different perspectives. I don't think it benefits me to only read stuff I agree with.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Well, the author states
> 
> I like reading about covid from different perspectives. I don't think it benefits me to only read stuff I agree with.


The headline is incredibly inflammatory and anything that refers to MEDICAL OVERLORDS!!! is not going to be worth my time.


----------



## Orchid PE

txjennah PE said:


> The headline is incredibly inflammatory and anything that refers to MEDICAL OVERLORDS!!! is not going to be worth my time.


I took it to be satire.


----------



## aog

txjennah PE said:


> The common cold didn't kill as many people in the past six months like coronavirus has. I couldn't even make it past the headline. Next.


And do we really know that?  I'm thinking of the folks who die from pneumonia which started from a common cold.  It happens so commonly that I assume it is not listed as the cause of death on the death certificate.

(clarifications: I didn't read the article.  I make no claims to be an expert, I just like the logic.)


----------



## Orchid PE

I never fully trust anyone else's data.

Reminds me of this:


----------



## txjennah PE

aog said:


> And do we really know that?  I'm thinking of the folks who die from pneumonia which started from a common cold.  It happens so commonly that I assume it is not listed as the cause of death on the death certificate.
> 
> (clarifications: I didn't read the article.  I make no claims to be an expert, I just like the logic.)


Like anything, the case counts are estimates, but if you research cold/flu deaths vs. COVID, COVID clearly has killed more people.


----------



## Road Guy

Dleg said:


> Is it legal to give a 12 year old girl whiskey get her shitfaced, as long as it is in your own home? And if that's illegal, isn't that discriminatory against people under the age of 21? Or females?
> 
> Sometimes society has to pull together to control situations that are deemed inappropriate or, in this case, dangerous for everyone else until a vaccine is available or the disease stops spreading. It confuses me why so many people have gotten themselves wrapped around the axle on this, and seemingly forgotten the myriad of everyday things that have been controlled by local and state governments, even since before the Revolutionary War. Which, by the way, was not fought in the name of anarchy.


totally off the mark comparison - but ok boomer..


----------



## Orchid PE

Road Guy said:


> ok boomer


----------



## Violator

mask for thee but not for me


----------



## jeb6294

txjennah PE said:


> Like anything, the case counts are estimates, but if you research cold/flu deaths vs. COVID, COVID clearly has killed more people.


I think it's been pretty widely established by now that flu deaths have regularly been under-reported over the years and that COVID deaths have been grossly over-reported.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> I think it's been pretty widely established by now that flu deaths have regularly been under-reported over the years ...


This is true.



jeb6294 said:


> ... and that COVID deaths have been grossly over-reported.


This is complete speculation. We won't know this answer for a couple years. Don't trust anyone who pretends to know right now.


----------



## Road Guy

The flu / covid doesnt really kill you, they cause pneumonia, which actually kills you...


----------



## jeb6294

jean15paul_PE said:


> This is complete speculation. We won't know this answer for a couple years. Don't trust anyone who pretends to know right now.


When I am getting first hand accounts from people who work in hospitals are reporting cause of death after dying in a car accident or from a massive heart attack, it's not speculation. When there is monetary incentive for hospitals to report deaths as COVID related, the numbers being reported are completely useless.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> When I am getting first hand accounts from people who work in hospitals are reporting cause of death after dying in a car accident or from a massive heart attack, it's not speculation. When there is monetary incentive for hospitals to report deaths as COVID related, the numbers being reported are completely useless.


Anecdotal information, even if factual, is not data.


----------



## jeb6294

jean15paul_PE said:


> Anecdotal information, even if factual, is not data.


Neither is the fudged information that is being reported by hospitals for monetary gain, but you are content to take it as 100% factual.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont think that hopsitals make the #'s up for profit, but my wife has said if they have anyone who dies and it seems slightly "strange" (i.e not 100% known why they died) then they will have them tested for the rona before giving the body over to the coroner / family.

I think they use the data for their own self serving purposes so they can say, yeah we had 900 people die in our hospital this past year, but 400 of them had covid - I do believe that type of data recording happens at some internal level, which isnt politicaly motivated, but keeps their own internal insurance, joint commission, ratings, etc, where they want them.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> Neither is the fudged information that is being reported by hospitals for monetary gain, but you are content to take it as 100% factual.


LOL, I just said, we won't have reliable data for a couple years. It takes time an energy to study this stuff.


----------



## Orchid PE

Florida is now fully open. Bars, restaurants, businesses, etc.


----------



## Road Guy

Was it just bars closed before?

I admit, living here in Denver where people are more likely to chase you down if you are on your bicylce and NOT wearing a mask, its a little weird when I see friends of mine from Atlanta down on "Fall Break" at PCB out to eat and not a mask in sight..

My older son is at  a relatively small school (3000 students) they had a big spike the first week and then it has really dropped since then, I have been watching the numbers - one would think that this same graph would apply at most colleges, big increase in the beginning, then a drop?  He said kids wear masks where they are supposed to (chow hall, student  center, libraries and classroooms), but no where else


----------



## Orchid PE

There were restrictions at restaurants to only operate at &lt;50%, but now local authorities _cannot_ limit restaurants to &lt;50% and have to have justification to limit &lt;100%. Local authorities can no longer fine people for not wearing masks.


----------



## Dleg

Ok doubters, here is real data on total deaths in the US, by all causes. Look at this graph, explore the data on this site, If it's not COVID, tell me is it the common cold that has killed all these extra people this year? Car accidents? (and if so, why do I keep getting rebates from my insurance company supposedly due to fewer accidents this year?). A sudden surge in heart attacks caused by internet stress? Curious what your explanations might be.

 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


----------



## Orchid PE

Clearly it comes from people killing their spouses after being quarantined with them for 6 months! I guess that counts as covid related deaths.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Road Guy

I had a woman yell at me cause I was walking the wrong way down the aisle at Safeway tonight on the way home from work...

I mean it’s Safeway, even on the weekend they don’t have enough customers to justify directional aisles.


----------



## txjennah PE

I recommend that if you are on Instagram, to follow Jessica Malaty Rivera and Laurel Bristow. They are two infectious diseases researchers who do a lot of Q&amp;As, for free, on their own time and not #sponsored, to explain a lot of what has been brought up in this thread already, including excess deaths. I know there is a lot of misinformation being spread, but I take comfort in knowing that I can get the right information from trained experts.  I think that is an important distinction here - trained experts in this field of study. Would you want to get your engineering information from some hack with a youtube channel? Why is this any different?  There are so many videos being spread over Facebook rife with misinformation and I am grateful that these scientists are putting out free resources to help combat the misinformation campaign.

That's all I have to say on the subject.


----------



## Road Guy

yesterday the woman I_ cohabitate_ with treated her 100th Covid Patient - I get most of my opinions on the matter from her in all honesty - most of the people who are in "infectious disease" roles dont work with patients and are not seeing this up close - I dont know anything about those two ladies above but the ICU / Trauma Nurses and Docs  (including the one that lives with me) refer to the Infectious Disease people they have been invovled with so far as "bigger idiots than the politicians" again nothing against those two listed above, and this is just the snapshot I see from the people actually getting there hands dirty with this - Our house is a common drinking spot for bitter ICU nurses and the Trauma Doc that lives down the street that also works in the same circles..So i just get to listen to them vent &amp; hear really shitty stories..


----------



## txjennah PE

Ok. That's a lot to unpack, but to be clear, Laurel Bristow (one of the infectious diseases researchers I posted about) works directly with COVID patients as part of her research...hence the expert opinion. I'm clearly not going to change anyone's inherent biases on here, but something important to consider when calling infectious researchers "bigger idiots than the politicians," especially when we have a president who thought that COVID would just happily disappear by Easter.

I can't.


----------



## Road Guy

Those were not my words, these are people that are in these rooms 12 hours a day (unlike the research people, who probably come in for a sneak peak and then go back and do "research" . tv interviews, etc) - if you havent spent a lot of time aroud real nurses, there isnt much of a filter. 

And again I dont know the people you referenced, not saying they are not great people, dont know, but I know the head of ID for the State here walked through the ICU where she works at the beginning of this and said "I dont see why you need an N-95 mask if the patient is on a ventilator" - which is where that comment came from - Which is a nice statement when you hide out in your office all day.

But all I am saying Is I view this through  the window that I have on this disease through someone I know (live with, married to, etc ) that has scene how the sauce is made..


----------



## Orchid PE

I looked up the two people on LinkedIn, and I personally wouldn't consider them "experts." It takes much more than a master's degree and some research assistant jobs to be considered an "expert" in my book.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Those were not my words, these are people that are in these rooms 12 hours a day (unlike the research people, who probably come in for a sneak peak and then go back and do "research" . tv interviews, etc) - if you havent spent a lot of time aroud real nurses, there isnt much of a filter.
> 
> And again I dont know the people you referenced, not saying they are not great people, dont know, but I know the head of ID for the State here walked through the ICU where she works at the beginning of this and said "I dont see why you need an N-95 mask if the patient is on a ventilator" - which is where that comment came from - Which is a nice statement when you hide out in your office all day.
> 
> But all I am saying Is I view this through  the window that I have on this disease through someone I know (live with, married to, etc ) that has scene how the sauce is made..


I have a fair idea of how the sauce is made also. Have cousin that is nurse, a brother that is firefighter. Some of the stories they have told are from first hand experience. MY brother is officer and made any repsonding to call fully suit up even before department required it.

With regard to the experts, there have open contradictions on what to do. DR Mask/No Mask (fauci) was sitting at a baseball game in an empty stadium with people on either side of him. One of the other experts seems to have an endless supply of scarves. And an outdoor motorcycle rally would spread the virus, but protesting shoulder to shoulder in the streets would not.

Decisions are made about opening businesses but some of the limits placed on them mean they cant be profitable. Kings Dominion a theme park outside Richmond VA was allowed to have 1000 people inside it. They didnt open because said they could not make money with number of people. Same happened at an outdoor concert venue between DC and Baltimore, could only have 250 at it. they didnt open. Hell it might take 250 just to put on show.

Honestly, a lot of times, it seems stuff is being thrown at a wall to see what sticks.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> I looked up the two people on LinkedIn, and I personally wouldn't consider them "experts." It takes much more than a master's degree and some research assistant jobs to be considered an "expert" in my book.


Agreed. Or like my job where having an alphabet soup of certifications after your name makes you an expert. And some of these people could not engineer their way out a paper bag.


----------



## Orchid PE

Then there are people that like to have everything shutdown because it hurts the economy. When the economy doesn't look so great before an election, it's easier to sway undetermined voters.


----------



## Road Guy

What struck a nerve with my wife and her coworkers was when (local and state) politicians put down very strict measures for everyone else,  meanwhile they are all expected to be at work early, dont be late!, dont get sick either lol!  - for example there was a thing to close office breakrooms here, yet they all are expected to cram some food down in a tiny room shoulder to shoulder and then back to the Rona Room! - Certainly the same for Emerg Personnel, Grocery Store Employees and others.

They gave the ID person at her hospital a big award, literally this person rarely left their offic. In fact they all (the ones who havent quit yet) got chastised for being too negative and not picking up extra shifts, blaming them for a lack of retention -  I would hope most people know the primary reason for poor retention is poor / non existent leadership.

but its hard to explain, been a long 7 months at my house, be glad when this shit goes back to where it came from.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

A lot of this comes down to perspective. I don't know any of the specific people yall are taking about, but more generally so many people lack the ability to see things from any perspective but their own.

I would say that the nurses and doctors on the front lines are the experts understanding the progression of the illness and treating the sick people.

Epidemiologists and infectious disease experts are the experts when it comes to understanding how the disease is spread and what measures are needed to stop the spread.

Those are two very different perspectives that can easily arrive at two very different conclusions. That doesn't mean that either is right or wrong. They are both probably right about their specific areas of expertise, but it takes all of those experts working together to figure out the best path forward.

That's supposed to be the leaders' job. To take in the information from the various experts (front lines, scientists, economists, sociologist, etc) and find the solution that does the most good (or the least bad). It doesn't seem like much leadership is happening right now.


----------



## txjennah PE

I am so glad that everyone here with professional engineering licenses can determine whether someone is an infectious diseases expert just by looking them up on LinkedIn, rather than making any effort to hear the data and studies they present!!!  That is so encouraging!!!  Please continue posting more articles about medical overlords!!!!!!!!  Clearly I'm with the right experts!!!!!!


----------



## Road Guy

jeanpaul-

I dont disagree with your post, one thing missing is that the docs / nurses see the types of people struggling to make it out of the ICU, and by _type_ I mean:


An existing medical issue

Overweight

Lack of exercise (Does your body push O2 through the blood with ease or struggle?)

Smoker / ex smoker

History of Drug Use

Booze Abuse

There are outlyers but not many, when I hear that "we dont see many people who look like you" it does make me personally worry less about this- does it make me careless and go stage diving at an underground bar? also no..

txjenna - Im not saying those people are not experts, Emory people are usually pretty solid and 100X better than any hospital here in Denever.  I am just relaying a true story of an "expert" who walked through an ICU and told Licensed Professionals that it wasnt necessary to wear an N95 if they were in a sealed covid room for 12 hours"  - Background is the Licensed Professionals were bitching because the hospital wanted them to wear surgical masks even though they had and have a basement full of N95's - I would question this persons judgement. This person is also not a licensed professional.


----------



## Road Guy

also I really like and appreciate the discussion here- 

and I also like to argue so sorry in advance. I try and think of something to irritate Dleg when he wakes up accross the pond..


----------



## Orchid PE

txjennah PE said:


> I am so glad that everyone here with professional engineering licenses can determine whether someone is an infectious diseases expert just by looking them up on LinkedIn, rather than making any effort to hear the data and studies they present!!!  That is so encouraging!!!  Please continue posting more articles about medical overlords!!!!!!!!  Clearly I'm with the right experts!!!!!!


Coming from a person that gets their information from Instagram... 

If you want to trust someone in the field that as very little experience when compared to _actual_ experts in the field, that's on you.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> Coming from a person that gets their information from Instagram from *experts who share data, publications/citations, and resources with their followers*


FTFY


----------



## Orchid PE

You say we shouldn't just trust any hack off youtube,  but instagram is ok? When someone actually looks into the credentials of the people you mentioned, you get sarcastic?

How can you possibly defend not researching someone before accepting they're an expert in their field? It would be completely foolish for someone to immediately assume these two ladies, that have relatively no experience when compared to prominent infectious disease experts, are experts based solely on the information they provide on instagram. How do you just assume everything they say is correct?

Credentials are what back up an experts arguments. Would you trust an infectious disease "expert" that has only been doing research for a few years over someone that has been doing the research for 30+ years?

It's just foolish. 

Nobody was under any assumptions that the author of an article online was an infectious disease expert, yet that's what you implied with your sarcasm. Nobody even said that everything this author said is factual, but what it did provide was alternative ideas and ways of thinking to the topic at hand. Yet you immediately wrote if off by only reading the headline. 

It sounds like you've already made up your mind about who and what you want to believe, and got aggravated when people called you out on these so called "experts."

I'm just saying, it doesn't appear to me like these people are experts. And they can put whatever sort of information they want on their social media accounts without it being verified. If I want factual information, I can get it from the CDC or from accepted research papers. Not from an instagram story.

If I want to hear what the common people think about the virus, that's when I'll get it from articles and social media. But I'm under no assumption these people are experts.


----------



## Orchid PE

How in the world did I get roped into this conversation when all I did was spend a little time researching someone and deciding they didn't have enough experience for me to trust??? I at least gave them my time.


----------



## Orchid PE

The real truth is, I just don't trust people that use double spaces after a period.


----------



## txjennah PE

You know what @Chattaneer PE, if you want to base your assumptions without following these women, the work they do, and the information they present (which is all based on studies either directly from the CDC and/or peer-reviewed papers), then that's cool. I'm clearly not going to convince you otherwise.    

And I didn't just randomly found these women this morning when I posted about them on this thread.  I have been following them for months. I trust their credentials, I trust the data they present because it's done in a very clear, logical way, and their data aligns with the general scientific consensus regarding COVID. Those are the metrics I choose for my information.


----------



## JayKay PE

A random jk weigh-in:

This is interesting for me because though I'm not working directly with covid patients, or "_cohabitating_" with someone who works with them, I do work in a medical facility where a majority of the patients tick all the boxes of covid impacting them at a higher and more serious rate.  Since I'm in the engineering department, we have had to implement government mandates coming down from up above as well as listening to our infection control staff on what we can do to potentially limit the spread.  Our infection control staff are RNs who have worked in the VA for an extended period of time, they're usually internal hires.  The major issue for our facility was the lack of PPE, be it N95 or SCBA or face shields, as well as maintaining the safety of non-patient care personnel.

The VA has not been teleworking, so I have been talking to the shops, making sure that things are running as smoothly as possible as we work to put PPE measures in as well as we can while also improving the facility for patient care (an ongoing issue before covid).  We've had really good leadership at the facility-level.  Since the beginning our director has been explaining what is going on, what can be done for our patients, and how things may go back to the norm.  When there is a contradiction, or things have changed, our Director has been fairly upfront and has explained things as well as she could, creating a panel of experts at our facility and discussing the things that were heard at the national level.

There have been contradictions, but I also believe that when something of this scale appears, affecting the whole world, not just our country, there will always be contradictions.  It's like a giant game of pandemic telephone.

Countries that normally mask when ill have been masking/are more used to a mask and did not have to really change their social patterns, and yet their cases are potentially rising (I believe I read that somewhere, please feel free to correct me).  There has been a lack of information from other countries or information coming out that seems to skew wildly against what other countries are stating.  Others are claiming victory when this isn't really understood and though the death toll might be attributed to underlying conditions, one has to wonder if covid is helping along natural selection. 

My main concern during this 9-month period of time is that there has been a lack of leadership at out country "director" level, CDC puts out guidance and literally two days later they pull it.  Is this because an expert weighed in?  Is this because someone told them to pull it because they were more of an expert?  I would just like more clarity without it seeming so cloak and dagger with lives on the line.

Maybe I'm an idiot, since this is my first job in healthcare and I'm not even dealing directly with patients and prob never will, but I do think that the fact that nurses are still wearing higher than normal PPE (which is still limited) at my facility makes me think this is slightly more dangerous than the common cold.  I do believe that closing down was the right thing, but it should have been handled better.  The government as a whole should have been more supportive of the people who needed to close down, instead of shoring up airline companies, and there should have been in-place a more robust panel to evaluate how to help the American people. 

Right now?  I'm just worried.


----------



## Violator

When does the South Park Special air?


----------



## Orchid PE

I wasn't trying to be mean or talk bad about them when I said:



Chattaneer PE said:


> I looked up the two people on LinkedIn, and I personally wouldn't consider them "experts." It takes much more than a master's degree and some research assistant jobs to be considered an "expert" in my book.


I was just merely pointing out I personally wouldn't be following them. That shouldn't have upset anyone.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> I wasn't trying to be mean or talk bad about them when I said:
> 
> I was just merely pointing out I personally wouldn't be following them.


That's cool!  Whatever you want to do. I like facts and peer-reviewed research, so I'll continue to follow them. I don't expect everyone to take my recommendation.


----------



## Orchid PE

txjennah PE said:


> I am so glad that everyone here with professional engineering licenses can determine whether someone is an infectious diseases expert just by looking them up on LinkedIn, rather than making any effort to hear the data and studies they present!!!  That is so encouraging!!!  Please continue posting more articles about medical overlords!!!!!!!!  Clearly I'm with the right experts!!!!!!






txjennah PE said:


> That's cool!  Whatever you want to do. I like facts and peer-reviewed research, so I'll continue to follow them. I don't expect everyone to take my recommendation.


If it's cool, why the harsh sarcastic dig? Nobody initiated anything offensive after your original post, just other people stating their opinions. Yet after the opinions were stated, it appeared like lashing out with sarcasm. I did not take it to be a friendly tone. But if it was, then that's my mistake.


----------



## txjennah PE

Chattaneer PE said:


> If it's cool, why the harsh sarcastic dig? Nobody initiated anything offensive after your original post, just other people stating their opinions. Yet after the opinions were stated, it appeared like lashing out with sarcasm. I did not take it to be a friendly tone. But if it was, then that's my mistake.


I'm not stopping anyone from expressing their opinions or resorting to personal attacks. I don't perceive my comments to be harsh, but we can agree to disagree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Road Guy

This is *mostly a joke- but those two ladies instagram pages they look way more relaxed and refreshed than my wifes and her friends grams


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Violator said:


> When does the South Park Special air?


I think that is tonight ar 8 eastern


----------



## Dleg

I don't want to give away too much of what I do. Obviously I am an engineer and not a doctor or a nurse. But I have been working directly in the COVID response, and as an in-between among all of the associated professions. I see the front line people and hear their side. I hang out with the epidemiologists and modelers and talk projections. I talk with hospital administrators and help them put together their requests for medical supplies and equipment. I then talk to the suppliers and find out what is and isn't actually available (supply chains have been totally f'd up this whole time and don't seem to be getting much better). I have worked to get lab equipment and supplies in at a time when that stuff was sooo hard to get, and the public just blamed the low testing numbers on our "incompetence". I have sat through meetings with elected leaders and heard the counter attacks between the epidemiolgists and business people. I listen to military medical folks criticize civilian doctors because they don't have endless supplies available like the military. And on and on and on.

All I can say from all of that is that there is no single profession that knows everything that is going on right now, or who has the right idea what to do. The fight between the ICU staff and the infectious disease people is sort of akin, in my view, to the engineer vs. driver dynamics in the movie Ford v. Ferrari. They each have their points, and each is an expert, but each has a different view of the situation and a different role in it.

And then you also have to factor in the on-going learning process. I posted months ago that it is amazing we know what we do about this virus already. We have developed an understanding of modes of transmission and vaccines in record time, compared to previous diseases. But most of what we know has only been learnable through statistics, which means months, millions of infections and hundreds of thousands of deaths to learn what we know now, and we still don't know enough. So yes, as an example, at the beginning of this thing the face mask and respirator advice was different, because we have learned more since then, and because of the supply chain problems.

There are so many facets to every aspect of this thing. It's awfully easy to sit back and pick at one thing at a time and think that you have it all figured out. Or that you have discovered the bad guy who was responsible for it all. But that's just not the case. It's a huge and hugely complex situation, that honestly is probably beyond the comprehension of any single person.


----------



## kevo_55

Enough talk. Back to business.


----------



## Road Guy

Yes back to the memes!


----------



## Platypus Engineer

And a work related post:

If anybody needs PDHs, AISC is holding some online courses at end of month:

https://www.aisc.org/the-flash-steel-conference/?_zs=TvWhd1&amp;_zl=Cmf87


----------



## JayKay PE

@RG, super weird about your meme, because at the VA we're like "Always wear your PPE.  Mask on, over the nose.  It makes the veterans feel safer and prevents the spread of covid and the flu"


----------



## Road Guy

Just stuff I am stealing that my wife laughs about on her instagram 

Like this one...


----------



## Road Guy

This one also probably doesn’t mean what y’all think it does....


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Remember food choices are important


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> This one also probably doesn’t mean what y’all think it does....
> 
> View attachment 18913


That lesbian health-kink porn is super hot and should be applauded?


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## txjennah PE

2020 is a rich tapestry.


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## csb

But why social distance in a family group that lives together?


----------



## Orchid PE

Because not all families are like the Waltons. Some are more... Malcom in the Middle.


----------



## Dleg

I'm starting to get COVID meme anxiety. As in, I've been wanting to get this thread back on the right track, but I haven't found any recent COVID memes that meet my high standards!


----------



## kevo_55

Not every meme needs to be a masterpiece. It just needs to bring a chuckle.


----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## Orchid PE

What I imagine is going on at the hospital...

"I have the china virus. My doctor, he's a really great guy, said this the worst case he's ever seen. I'm doing great, though. Recovering very, very quickly. Probably the fastest recovery they've ever seen. Much quicker than other patients. Believe me, we're going to take care of it. The incredible men and women here, they actually said they may have to take samples of my blood to figure out why I'm recovering so fast. Who knows. I don't know. You never know. Chinas going to pay. It's going to be a lot of money. A lot. Billions and billions."


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> The real truth is, I just don't trust people that use double spaces after a period.


Well with me, double space is just my poor typing skills, not intentional


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chattaneer PE said:


> Because not all families are like the Waltons. Some are more... Malcom in the Middle.


And need more dads to be like Red Forman


----------



## jeb6294




----------



## Road Guy

[No message]


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## Dleg

Finally.


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## Dleg

I think I would crash trying to read that and then trying to work it out in my head.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/10/11/who-reverses-position-on-lockdowns-weeks-before-the-election-n2577866


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Dothracki said:


> View attachment 18978


I do not know how many people will get that is computer programming lines


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy

Over? Did you say Over?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/10/11/who-reverses-position-on-lockdowns-weeks-before-the-election-n2577866


WOW...



> Luckily Trump has prioritized the development of a vaccine. But will he get any credit for that? Of course not.
> 
> The scientists' "focused approach" includes a focus on protecting the most vulnerable while allowing most Americans who are not at risk of severe illness to go about their daily lives and develop herd immunity. In other words, the exact opposite approach taken by Gov. Cuomo (D-NY).
> 
> And will Trump or conservatives get any credit for being ahead of the scientists on the lockdowns? Of course not.


How about this instead...



> The message from the article is that health measures which involve strict personal hygiene, effective contact tracing and isolating when ill are the essential measures to be taken.
> 
> "Public health services are organised to offer locally-integrated support for interrupting transmission and suppressing clusters," he wrote.
> 
> "This means test-trace-isolate-protect services everywhere, with clearly justified performance metrics.
> 
> "It is important there is enough testing capacity to pick up where the virus is, to detect spikes and manage surges.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688


----------



## Road Guy

Was talking to my doc neighbor over the weekend and he was telling me this:



_To date, the *World* Health Organization (WHO) *has* declared *only 2* diseases officially *eradicated*: smallpox caused by variola *virus* (VARV) and rinderpest caused by the rinderpest *virus* (RPV)._


----------



## Orchid PE

If we all try hard enough, we could bring small pox back


----------



## Road Guy

I think Oregon is already on top of it to be honest


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jean15paul_PE said:


> WOW...
> 
> How about this instead...
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688


I would be good with isolating and most vulnerable. Not punishing everyone.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> Over? Did you say Over?


Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dothracki PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor


----------



## jeb6294

Dothracki said:


>


Forget it, he's rolling.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Quite possibly the most 2020 story yet:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stop-disinfecting-mail-in-ballots-election-officals-say


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> View attachment 18996


Never understood why she was supposed to be the "big thing" for a while...I never thought she was funny at all.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Never understood why she was supposed to be the "big thing" for a while...I never thought she was funny at all.


What little I have seen of her work, I agree. But she appears to be media darling probably what drives it.


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Platypus Engineer

kevo_55 said:


>


I will see your murder hornets.

And raise you venomous caterpillars, exotic ticks, freakishly large snakes, turtles and alligators, and an apparent obesity epidemic among bears:

https://www.foxnews.com/science/hairy-caterpillar-virginia-puss-caterpillar-venomous-insect-hair

https://www.foxnews.com/science/rhode-island-exotic-tick-asian-longhorned-tick-disease-carrying

https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/florida-hunters-break-record-with-18-foot-python

https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/hunters-arkansas-longest-alligator-state-history

https://www.foxnews.com/science/massive-alligator-snapping-turtle-shell-shocks-dc-suburb

https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/fat-bear-week-winner-alaska-national-park

And the pictures of how the alligator was transported, dont show the Humane Scoiety


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## Orchid PE

That Friends one was great!


----------



## Dothracki PE

What is going on in the North/Northwest? 20% of Montana's total cases have been reported in the last week and Wisconsin reported over 20,000 cases in the last week.


----------



## Road Guy

Scores of wealthy people from California who do "summer" in Montana and then it leaps around?

 I dont know - sometimes you just gotta think it sort of moves around in tighter clusters from place to place.  My son is currently living in South Dakota and the spike looks big on a graph, but like everywhere else he said you cant really tell going around town because everything is pretty wide open (spaces) / "The Plains" -  Other than it is the end of harvest season I think in that area - people moving around..


----------



## Dleg

Surging all over right now, more than half of the states. I know I have seen CDC saying that small, in-home gatherings are one thing causing the current spread but I don't know. Where I am, we are seeing a big surge and it's being driven by some work clusters (probably people eating together on break), a lot of small and large in-home gatherings, and multi-generational homes. And this last one is unfortunately driving hospitalizations and deaths because of the old people living in these homes. 

I've had to crack down on my own staff to prevent workplace spread. I don't get the disconnect. They think they are doing the right thing because they wear their masks and socially distance at their work stations etc., but then when it's lunch time I catch them all together in one small room, masks off, talking up a storm. I really just don't get the disconnect there.  But I am guessing it must be pretty common.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Dleg said:


> Surging all over right now, more than half of the states. I know I have seen CDC saying that small, in-home gatherings are one thing causing the current spread but I don't know. Where I am, we are seeing a big surge and it's being driven by some work clusters (probably people eating together on break), a lot of small and large in-home gatherings, and multi-generational homes. And this last one is unfortunately driving hospitalizations and deaths because of the old people living in these homes.
> 
> I've had to crack down on my own staff to prevent workplace spread. I don't get the disconnect. They think they are doing the right thing because they wear their masks and socially distance at their work stations etc., but then when it's lunch time I catch them all together in one small room, masks off, talking up a storm. I really just don't get the disconnect there.  But I am guessing it must be pretty common.


My coworkers do the same at lunch. I don't understand why. I'm perfectly fine eating by myself at my desk for now.


----------



## Orchid PE

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/13/science.abe5960


----------



## JayKay PE

I'm hitting a conundrum right now.  I am currently scheduled to travel home from Indiana to New York for Thanksgiving and Christmas.  My flight for Thanksgiving is a non-direct Southwest flight going from the IND airport (which is surprisingly one of the top airports in the US/was super clean and airy when I traveled in July), transfer in Baltimore (which is super clean, though fairly busy when I went through it), and then land in ISP airport (local airport that services Long Island, is super uncrowded even during normal travel).  Right now, my Christmas flight is a direct Delta flight from IND to JFK, but if that changes, which is super likely, I might just rebook a Southwest flight with the same flight path above and go into the local airport with less people vs. JFK.

Usually I'd be fine skipping Thanksgiving/travelling home to see family during the holidays, but I'm worried about my grandparents.  They're both getting up in years and this might be the last family gathering they're there for (grandma has had a few falls/surgeries to fix things and grandpa just had his 90th birthday).  I did travel home in July, and it wasn't too bad, but with cases surging up I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this.  I would drive, but it's a 13 hour drive that I'd have to do by myself...which might not be too safe combined with holiday traffic.  My grandpa and I are really close/he often asks about me to my parents when they visit almost every other day to help them, and I've promised him and my grandma that I was coming home.  I feel like if I don't come home it'll super hurt them emotionally (my grandpa has been waiting for me to come home/it's what he asks me every time we talk on the phone), and I feel like hurting them emotionally is just as bad as physically at their age.

I just...it would fucking kill me if I was the one who brought covid into their home, after they got through the first covid wave in NY.


----------



## JayKay PE

Ignore double post


----------



## Road Guy

You can get lower grade N95’s at Lowe’s and amazon, etc.

should make the airport and plane rides about as safe as you can get. (Relatively)


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> You can get lower grade N95’s at Lowe’s and amazon, etc.
> 
> should make the airport and plane rides about as safe as you can get. (Relatively)


Could you maybe link me the Amazon/Lowe's listings, if you have them off-hand?  I don't want to accidentally order N-95s that should be getting used by healthcare workers.  I want to see if I can maybe get a covid test at work before I travel, but I'm unsure of their lead time/don't want to take a test that would be better used for a veteran.

I'm just kinda freaking out.  I was totally fine with traveling a couple days ago, but with things getting...worse in Indiana (aka: I wear my mask while walking outside and people act like I'm crazy), I'm getting concerned with the holiday travel.


----------



## Road Guy

I bought some of the shelf at Lowe’s, I still see them here available.

all I see now on Amazon are the KN95’s - but they are listed as an alternate even for healthcare when n95’s are not available (I had to fly for work a bunch a few weeks ago) ended up using the ones from Lowe’s - 

the hospitals seem to have enough they are just being there useful cheapo self with their supply. But I don’t think is common folk can buy the hospital stuff - unless you buy a truck load from Honeywell


----------



## blybrook PE

@JayKay PE, as someone who has traveled for work and previously a safety coordinator for those that traveled, the KN95's from Lowe's or Amazon are generally your best bet if you don't want to go through the hassle of getting a half face respirator and proper filters.

Lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dasheng-5-Pack-Disposable-Sanding-and-Fiberglass-Disposable-Respirator/1002826938 

There are several from Amazon available, just make sure that they have a minimum of 5 layers. 

Also, the issue with getting a test before you go only confirms that you did not have it before you traveled. That is why some states have required a test upon arrival (or 72 hours prior to arrival) and another 7-10 days after arrival; just to clear you from not contracting anything during travel.

The Mrs. has to take a test 3 days before each rotation and another the day of flight to the site. Once on site, they have to wear masks at all times and eat in their rooms (essentially a loose quarantine as they do go to work and have meetings with social distancing daily). The last notice I saw from the jobsite was that masks were required at all times, except when in your own room eating or in the field without anyone within 30' of you,  from the time you leave on the plane to get there to after you get off the plane after your rotation while traveling home.

Safe travels.


----------



## envirotex

I would really be more worried about the choice of airline more than anything else with travel.  Southwest seems like they are going above and beyond compared to others for air travel during the pandemic...I haven't flown any where, yet, but Southwest will probably be my only choice.


----------



## Road Guy

^ those are the ones I bought - I think as long as you feel dry and thirsty after wearing them an hour plus then that means they are working    (well working better than most of the masks I saw on the plane)  I wear a procedural mask over them also - 

Southwest has been good in my experience (but thats the only airline I have flown recetnly) - its probably for good reason but no booze allowed on their planes.   They claim to bring in fresh air every 5-7 minutes but I dont know how you really prove that?

But the only thing they or your really cant control is if there is an asympotiomatic person sitting right in front of you or very close.

Id be more concerned about just being in the airport during busy times, Id maybe try and adjust the dates away from the busier days if possible?

The wifes neice, who was the flower girl in our wedding 26 years ago, has been trying to get married since just before this all went down, so they finally just went o Savannah and didnt tell anyone and got married last weekend, I think they just couldnt see a scenario where any kind of wedding would leave them guilt free and might cause some unintended consequences.


----------



## Supe

Charlotte airport was stupid.  They put like 8 foot tall sneeze guards throughout the security line.  Somehow sticking everyone in a plastic box together is better than having any ventilation?  Flight on American was dumb too.  Flights were full, and they can't bring drinks around, but somehow it's still safe for stewardess to walk around and try to get you to sign up for credit cards?  Everyone was drinking anyways, just stuck paying airport price for food and drinks they brought onboard.


----------



## bwin12

JayKay PE said:


> I'm hitting a conundrum right now.


I say for that distance, with those circumstances- drive.

In early July we went to my in-laws, we drove 19 hours with a 7, 3.5 and 1 year old. The in-laws are older and more in the danger zone, like you we wanted to lower our risk of giving them the gift of covid, but still see them. The only exposure to the public was gas stations, and that was manageable. Also, think about it this way- from the time you leave your house to the time you get to your destination when flying is probably 8 hours with a layover. Add 3 and you've driven there. 

In late July we flew to my parents- Southwest DEN to Baltimore to Portland, ME. It was fine. My parents are younger, healthy and really don't give a shit about covid. It was odd how empty the airport was. I never felt in danger/at risk.


----------



## JayKay PE

@blybrook PE Thanks for the info!  My plan if things are really bad is to semi-quarantine at my parents and try to get a test in NYS.  I've been using cloth masks/I wash them every week after one day of use, but I wanted something a little more robust while traveling/when I potentially see my grandparents.  Last time when I travelled in July I wore my fabric mask for the majority of the time except when I was eating (and putting my mask back on immediately afterwards) or when I was in my old bedroom.  

@bwin12, the flight itself even with the layover is a little under 5 hours and since I have TSA pre-check, I can shave the time before I enter the first airport.  Layover seems to be around an hour and a half, and Baltimore airport  I know how to social distance.  Driving would be 13 hours, minimum without traffic, with just myself.  Adding the time from driving into/out of the NYC area during Thanksgiving, I can easily see another 2 hours of traffic just trying to get off of Long Island.  I'd like to drive/prefer to drive, but I usually hit around 9.5 hours as my max and I don't feel 'safe' pulling off to a rest area to take a quick nap/stretch for an hour as someone traveling by themselves?


----------



## csb

I bought our N95s from here: https://honestppe.supply/

I found the link via Rolling Stone, of all places.


----------



## Road Guy

^ - I was about to order some of the  "real ones: (for the wife) but I see they are sold out!

I personally (large head) like the ones that have the straps that go all the way around your head as compared to the KN95's that drape around the ears ( interms of just regular comfort) - glad I bought I box as Ive got to go to phoneix next week.. 

Ive seen these at Lowes, home depot and target (denver area) not medical grade but I figure better than my webelos bandana / neckerchief


----------



## envirotex

Road Guy said:


> The wifes neice, who was the flower girl in our wedding 26 years ago, has been trying to get married since just before this all went down, so they finally just went o Savannah and didnt tell anyone and got married last weekend, I think they just couldnt see a scenario where any kind of wedding would leave them guilt free and might cause some unintended consequences.


I now have three sets of friends whose kids have "eloped" because of COVID.  Just the immediate family.


----------



## Road Guy

they just took her parents and his parents - there are some really old and out of shape folks on the wifes side of the family  so they just didnt want to be the ones that made someone travel and get it.

I dont think you really remember your wedding anyways (we dont) they plan to have a big party this summer - which would be cool.


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> ^ - I was about to order some of the  "real ones: (for the wife) but I see they are sold out!
> 
> I personally (large head) like the ones that have the straps that go all the way around your head as compared to the KN95's that drape around the ears ( interms of just regular comfort) - glad I bought I box as Ive got to go to phoneix next week..
> 
> Ive seen these at Lowes, home depot and target (denver area) not medical grade but I figure better than my webelos bandana / neckerchief


The ones we bought have the around the head and I tried changing the straps to be behind the ears because we were headed to a wedding and there's no way to wear it like that without my ears ripping off. I was pretty happy to have them when the smoke was really bad here a few weeks ago. They are not something I would want to have to wear all the time because they are pretty restrictive, so I'm extra thankful for nurses that have to wear them all the time.


----------



## Dleg

I "borrowed" an N-95 from a doctor colleague a couple weeks ago when I had to go on a hospital inspection. He had one of the type that I am fit tested for. It turned out to be really old, and the foam nosepiece guard disintegrated during the inspection, got in my eye, and gave me an eye infection!


----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> I bought our N95s from here: https://honestppe.supply/
> 
> I found the link via Rolling Stone, of all places.


Thank you my dear!  I was able to buy 5; I didn't want to buy more since I don't really need/want to buy a lot of the medical grade ones.  I'm going to use 2 of them when I'm traveling (to and from) and then probably another when I'm at the bigger family gathering (if I can't get a covid test completed in time beforehand in NYS).  As for ear straps...I def prefer the around the head ones vs. the ear strap ones for 'offical' real masks.  For fabric masks I prefer around the ear, since my hair is super fine and fabric tie straps around the back just slide down.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## csb

But, like, Thanksgiving is cancelled this year, right?


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

^- because its what heros do... generate the memes...

in a non meme post, found this little tidbit of data for my state (which seems to be in conflict with the CDC RIsk Factors) but looks like staying away from any type of in home healthcare / prison / ambulatory care facility is the way to go..  &amp; maybe they are mixed in with other, but "gyms" isnt on the chart.. as always I find the data really interesting..




https://covid19.colorado.gov/data


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> ^- because its what heros do... generate the memes...
> 
> in a non meme post, found this little tidbit of data for my state (which seems to be in conflict with the CDC RIsk Factors) but looks like staying away from any type of in home healthcare / prison / ambulatory care facility is the way to go..  &amp; maybe they are mixed in with other, but "gyms" isnt on the chart.. as always I find the data really interesting..
> 
> View attachment 19053
> 
> 
> https://covid19.colorado.gov/data


You can see the excel data and zero places with gym, fitness, continuously varied anything show up in either active or resolved. I like that they also include things like "Bunco Night" and "Pitkin Wedding" to indicate that it was a social gathering.


----------



## Roarbark

Road Guy said:


> ^- because its what heros do... generate the memes...
> 
> in a non meme post, found this little tidbit of data for my state (which seems to be in conflict with the CDC RIsk Factors) but looks like staying away from any type of in home healthcare / prison / ambulatory care facility is the way to go..  &amp; maybe they are mixed in with other, but "gyms" isnt on the chart.. as always I find the data really interesting..
> 
> View attachment 19053
> 
> 
> https://covid19.colorado.gov/data


Ooh, this is a really cool breakdown, thanks for sharing @Road Guy. For those trying to find it on the site:
1. Go to link above.
2. Click the gray "Outbreaks" box. 
3. Click "Setting Type" for the breakdown shown above. 

Looks like stay out of prison, avoid inpatient health care, and no "Camp/Educ/Childcare", which I'd assume is mostly Schools driven? Would be interested to see further breakdown on that category. 

@csbI will also be avoiding all "Bunco Nights" in the near future. For reasons not related to COVID.


----------



## Road Guy

Crap sorry I didn’t realize the link doesn’t go through (tried to copy it again but it just does the main link)

but I do think it’s pretty neat- it does show the schools have caused the recent rise - unsure if it’s college or Regular school


----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> But, like, Thanksgiving is cancelled this year, right?


I have no idea.  I'm travelling to see family, but I'm not sure if we're actually doing a big meal?  I have to work it out with my parents.  I might just stay at their house and haunt the halls while they go and see everyone, and maybe I'll do a one-on-one with my grandparents after the 'non-holiday that totes isn't occurring'.


----------



## csb

JayKay PE said:


> I have no idea.  I'm travelling to see family, but I'm not sure if we're actually doing a big meal?  I have to work it out with my parents.  I might just stay at their house and haunt the halls while they go and see everyone, and maybe I'll do a one-on-one with my grandparents after the 'non-holiday that totes isn't occurring'.


Thanksgiving is my mother being stressed and making her disappointed face all day. Thanksgiving with the in-laws happens the weekend after and is the same except sub in my mother-in-law for my mother and the food sucks.


----------



## Road Guy

I think you can tell family you dont want to see that its been cancelled.

If there is snow I plan to do my typical ski and eat turkey with the dependents


----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> Thanksgiving is my mother being stressed and making her disappointed face all day. Thanksgiving with the in-laws happens the weekend after and is the same except sub in my mother-in-law for my mother and the food sucks.


Thanksgiving with my family is way too much food, all amazing in taste, too many desserts, and 'why did I eat all the appetizers?'.  Usually with much drinking, many Irish coffees, and hot tubbing.

Then the next day is many many leftovers and joy was heard throughout the land!


----------



## Dothracki PE

csb said:


> Thanksgiving is my mother being stressed and making her disappointed face all day. Thanksgiving with the in-laws happens the weekend after and is the same except sub in my mother-in-law for my mother and the food sucks.


That sounds so depressing...


----------



## csb

Dothracki said:


> That sounds so depressing...


Yeah, well, this is why my Grinch heart exists.


----------



## blybrook PE

Getting this thread back on track:


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Road Guy

https://dailysnark.com/2020/10/21/odell-beckham-says-he-cant-get-infected-with-covid-19-because-hes-built-different/

OBJ aint no sissy like that Von Miller who allowed the Rona to infect him!


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> Yeah, well, this is why my Grinch heart exists.


Since there aren't enough reactions on this site:


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Orchid PE

It's funny how moving to a different state and city, covid just kind of feels non-existent. After having been here for 3 weeks, it's like nothing ever happened.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE

I fell victim to one of these memes the other day. While standing in line to vote, all of a sudden I felt the urge to cough. Normally I would've, but there were too many people in line with me so I just did my best to hold it in. The mask was covering my funny faces at least.


----------



## bwin12

I sneezed at a 3-5 year old soccer game a few weekends ago. You would have thought I dropped my pants, onto the field and started beating children by the parents reactions within a 50' radius of me...


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Orchid PE




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

nurse humor memes....


----------



## Road Guy

He may have a point? seems to work on the planes?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

^That's me, believing your meme.


----------



## Road Guy

no getting butt hurt in the meme thread please   :holyness:


----------



## Road Guy

well shit... i hope we still have some napalm around..

https://www.kptv.com/news/first-ever-murder-hornet-nest-in-u-s-discovered-in-washington-state/article_091f0a6e-1553-11eb-b90a-abdbd89615dd.html?fbclid=IwAR02YZMkoOvIq7LG1VSGt5KYVjH_x-QS_8onc1J_zVChvv3_wTtMu8Pcgq8


----------



## Road Guy

Lol- there were two of these guys and I just got the pic of one. But going through airport security in tyvek suits / gloves / make / face shields...

If I see them on the plane....


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Road Guy said:


> Lol- there were two of these guys and I just got the pic of one. But going through airport security in tyvek suits / gloves / make / face shields...
> 
> If I see them on the plane....
> 
> View attachment 19144


Plot twist: it's not even for the Rona, but for the seasonal flu. :rotflmao:


----------



## akwooly

what if they know something you don't know...


----------



## Road Guy

I know right!

i actually saw them on our concourse but not my flight - thank yah Jesuz!

hope they don’t have to go to the bathroom!


----------



## Dleg




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Welp.  I think I am going to pass on Thanksgiving back to NY this year.  With the way Indiana numbers are trending, and Thanksgiving being a fairly large gathering, I just don't feel comfortable with that many people being present.  I'm instead going to drive down and see my aunt and uncle in AR.  Yes, not a great alternative for lower covid numbers, but my aunt has been working remotely for the past 7+ months and my uncle is a city employee who has been following their strict guidelines, so I feel like they won't have it/won't give it to me.  Their celebration was only going to be them and my aunt's mother, since their kids won't be traveling (one had a baby, one just bought a house, and the other is teaching at a university and can't travel due to their policy).

I will be traveling home in December, unless a state of emergency is enacted.  Christmas is more laid back with my family, not as big of a gathering, so I feel like I could see my grandparents in more of a controlled atmosphere of just me/them/my immediate family where I can maintain some space and remain fully masked since I won't be eating as much.  My dad understood...my mom was a little upset about me not coming, but I should be able to stretch that December vacation to almost 2 weeks if I don't come out for Thanksgiving.


----------



## Road Guy

For most of the Country its safter to go to Florida for Turkey right now - not safer for them though...


----------



## Dleg

Corona's made someone rich:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/10/29/zoom-is-now-worth-more-than-exxonmobil-and-founder-eric-yuans-net-worth-has-nearly-doubled-in-three-months/?utm_campaign=forbes&amp;utm_source=facebook&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_term=Valerie/#76616c657269


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## envirotex

Road Guy said:


> well shit... i hope we still have some napalm around..
> 
> https://www.kptv.com/news/first-ever-murder-hornet-nest-in-u-s-discovered-in-washington-state/article_091f0a6e-1553-11eb-b90a-abdbd89615dd.html?fbclid=IwAR02YZMkoOvIq7LG1VSGt5KYVjH_x-QS_8onc1J_zVChvv3_wTtMu8Pcgq8


I knew we skipped over that too fast!


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> For most of the Country its safter to go to Florida for Turkey right now - not safer for them though...


It appears that it is safer for Turkey to go to Florida too.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## jeb6294

Good lord...please tell me this isn’t happening somewhere


----------



## Road Guy

John Elway has tested positive for the Rona - but it looks like he will be well enough to screw up the Broncos draft this spring.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

So.  Election is over.

This means covid is cured/done, right?


----------



## Supe

JayKay PE said:


> So.  Election is over.
> 
> This means covid is cured/done, right?


----------



## jeb6294

Well, near as I can tell, Biden's plan to end COVID is to double testing sites and throw money at people.

  1. I'm not exactly sure how doubling the number of testing sites does anything to help. Last I heard there isn't teh huge lines of people at testing sites anymore.

  2. He claims he's not going to raise taxes on the middle class (which has already been shown to be a lie) so I'd be interested to see where all this magical free money is supposed to come from.


----------



## Supe

Even if Biden is elected, the Senate is going to remain Republican, so any potential tax reform goes out the window regardless.


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> 2. He claims he's not going to raise taxes on the middle class (which has already been shown to be a lie) so I'd be interested to see where all this magical free money is supposed to come from.


Social security.  We don't need that for the future.  Might as well use it now for instant gratification.


----------



## bwin12

JayKay PE said:


> Social security.  We don't need that for the future.  Might as well use it now for instant gratification.


I am in my mid 30's. I just ran some quick calcs and realized I have probably paid $80 to $85k into SS since I started working a real job at 15 years old. I would walk away from it if given the option to never have to pay into it again and never get anything from it. Am I the only one?


----------



## JayKay PE

bwin12 said:


> I am in my mid 30's. I just ran some quick calcs and realized I have probably paid $80 to $85k into SS since I started working a real job at 15 years old. I would walk away from it if given the option to never have to pay into it again and never get anything from it. Am I the only one?


My thought process: Social Security is required to maintain the basic well-being and protection (through benefits) for older Americans, people who become disabled, or a family where an income supplying spouse or parent dies.  I hope to god that I never have to rely on it as my main source of income, but I believe it is a function of society to provide for those who are unable to work (but who did work/provide some sort of contribution to society during their lifetime).  Yes. 

Adding up what I have paid into Social Security, and knowing I most likely will not get a return, does make me a little mad but that is because of the way this funding is being managed.  I believe social security is a benefit for a functioning society, especially since pensions and other long-term benefits go away once you stop working.  Yes, some people depend on their 401ks, but you cannot predict the market and with some people struggling to survive in their old years...somehow living longer than expected...I do not begrudge a program the provides a small amount of comfort in a monthly stipend.


----------



## Dleg

Let's get this thread back on track. Arguments about taxation and social security left this board with the politics room.


----------



## Violator

You spelled Pop wrong.


----------



## Dleg

I might try this.

View attachment 19303


----------



## Dleg

And I did try this.

View attachment 19304


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Supe

Dleg said:


> And I did try this.
> 
> View attachment 19304


I'd heard it makes your ears bigger, so I've been trying something new.


----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## txjennah PE

Pfizer news this AM is fantastic.  Hoping they can keep the 90% target as they finalize this portion of the study.


----------



## TrickShotG

txjennah PE said:


> Pfizer news this AM is fantastic.  Hoping they can keep the 90% target as they finalize this portion of the study.


Agreed, great news. Can they please put it out before the impending wave cancels my CA Seismic test?


----------



## snickerd3

Dleg said:


> View attachment 19260


I still hate people, but I miss people.  the kids get to go to school, mr snick still gets to go to work...I'm stuck at home by myself all day.


----------



## snickerd3

txjennah PE said:


> Pfizer news this AM is fantastic.  Hoping they can keep the 90% target as they finalize this portion of the study.


The early data looks promising.  they still need about 70 positive cases before they can move to the next step.


----------



## JayKay PE

snickerd3 said:


> The early data looks promising.  they still need about 70 positive cases before they can move to the next step.


I think they were super close, like 64 or something like that.  They actually weren't part of Operation Warp Speed, so...for some reason that makes me trust their results more?  Is that bad?


----------



## Road Guy

they got like $2 Billion from "Warp Speed"

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/07/22/us-government-engages-pfizer-produce-millions-doses-covid-19-vaccine.html


----------



## JayKay PE

Road Guy said:


> they got like $2 Billion from "Warp Speed"
> 
> https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/07/22/us-government-engages-pfizer-produce-millions-doses-covid-19-vaccine.html


I've read the money they're receiving from the government is $1.95 billion, not from warp speed, and it's only after they begin production/distribution.  Pfizer used its own $2 billion for the research and have actually distanced themselves from Warp Speed as part of their clinical trials?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/09/no-pfizers-apparent-vaccine-success-is-not-function-trumps-operation-warp-speed/


----------



## Road Guy

please refrain from posting washington post links here... lol

The government and warp speed are still "the government" - Any vaccine that comes out in the next few months will have been created by the private sector and ultimately funded by the _government_. If Pfizer did finance their own research they are bankrolling it with the $2B payout from the feds.

So if Johnson and Johnson (or whomever the others ones are) create a vaccine that goes through FDA youre not going to consider it susepct?   I think you have tons of good people working on the vaccine, but all are the umbrella of getting a pay day from the taxpayer ( &amp; rightfully so)


----------



## JayKay PE

Is a non-us source slightly better?  I'm too lazy to copy+paste/find a website that would be 'acceptable' for your review.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-covid-vaacine-pfizer-b1719698.html



Road Guy said:


> If Pfizer did finance their own research they are bankrolling it with the $2B payout from the feds.


Pfizer is bankrolling their own research.  They are only accepting government funds _after_ they've completed clinical trials and are in production, versus other companies who took government funds beforehand whether or not they generate a viable vaccine.  In my head that just makes me feel like they're making sure things are actually working before rolling it out.  So, yes, they're technically a part of Warp Speed, but they're not receiving any funding for development like other companies.

I never said anything about not accepting a vaccine that goes though FDA, but I think the speed that some of these vaccines are being pushed through is a little concerning.  Especially since there are clauses that allow vaccines to go through FDA review quicker if it's an 'emergency' case.


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

^ - That would be hillarious!

I just typically assume that the bulk of the people who are actually doing the work associated with the vaccine are doing so under their own scientific / medical process / FDA SOP / etc and whomever is involved politically is not _really_ involved. 

I watched the CBS special on warp speed last night and I thought it was pretty cool, especially the 4 star general guy. But the main fuel behind it is cash.


----------



## Dleg

Other great news today was the FDA releasing the EUA for Ely Lilly's monoclonal antibody therapeutic (similar to what Trump was given). This will start rolling out to the states in large quantities very soon. Basically a 1 hour infusion, 1 hour of observation, and then you go home. Clinical trials showed that patients receiving the treatment had 2/3 fewer trips to the ER and hospitalizations.  That's huge. We're setting up where I am to start administering this stuff to eligible patients,  which is pretty much every symptomatic person with virtually any comorbidity or other vulnerability.


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## JayKay PE

JayKay PE said:


> Is a non-us source slightly better?  I'm too lazy to copy+paste/find a website that would be 'acceptable' for your review.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-covid-vaacine-pfizer-b1719698.html
> 
> Pfizer is bankrolling their own research.  They are only accepting government funds _after_ they've completed clinical trials and are in production, versus other companies who took government funds beforehand whether or not they generate a viable vaccine.  In my head that just makes me feel like they're making sure things are actually working before rolling it out.  So, yes, they're technically a part of Warp Speed, but they're not receiving any funding for development like other companies.
> 
> I never said anything about not accepting a vaccine that goes though FDA, but I think the speed that some of these vaccines are being pushed through is a little concerning.  Especially since there are clauses that allow vaccines to go through FDA review quicker if it's an 'emergency' case.


Someone put it more succinctly:


----------



## Road Guy

I am just glad we have a strong private sector that is working on it. 

Ill accept a vaccine from anyone that makes it through FDA..


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

the best thing for the planet is for about 1 billion of us to die


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

kevo_55 said:


>


You sound like Agent Smith!!!!


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> the best thing for the planet is for about 1 billion of us to die


Disagree. We need to go full Thanos and more. 1 billion doesn't even get us back to the 1990s


----------



## Violator




----------



## Dleg

"We're the virus!"


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dleg

https://www.theonion.com/pfizer-announces-first-batch-of-coronavirus-vaccine-wil-1845644705?utm_campaign=The+Onion&amp;utm_content=1605128561&amp;utm_medium=SocialMarketing&amp;utm_source=facebook


----------



## jeb6294

I would think gold would be too soft to use for the needle.


----------



## Road Guy

i heard they are also making a vaccine "fast pass" sort of like how the Karens act at Disney World..


----------



## Violator




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Violator

2020


----------



## Dleg

https://www.facebook.com/20950654496/posts/10159258773414497/


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Violator said:


> 2020
> 
> View attachment 19423


Good thing gladiator had the ending it did. No way he could play that role now


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## Supe

Stop shitting on my mobile charging station retirement plan.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> Stop shitting on my mobile charging station retirement plan.


Sorry. Might not have to worry if more states like CA ban the sale of new gas powered cars (2035).


----------



## Supe

Platypus Engineer said:


> Sorry. Might not have to worry if more states like CA ban the sale of new gas powered cars (2035).


I'm not worried about the CA market anyways.  They've already got rolling blackouts with their fossil plants running full tilt and the nuke sites not decommissioned yet.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Supe said:


> I'm not worried about the CA market anyways.  They've already got rolling blackouts with their fossil plants running full tilt and the nuke sites not decommissioned yet.


I though part of problem in CA was that they were too dependent on wind / solar for power generation. Other places require wind /solar to have backup generating capacity.


----------



## Supe

CA doesn't even have enough baseload, never mind worrying about backup capacity.  Diablo Canyon (shutting down) is nearly a tenth of CA's total power.  Remove DC, and more than half of their power comes from natural gas.  That's not counting the huge amount of power they import from Palo Verde and a bevy of out of state coal plants that California either owns outright or its utilities have shares in.


----------



## txjennah PE

More great prelim data from Moderna.  Maybe I can actually see my family next year!


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## User1

Over Nov 4th tho guys


----------



## Supe

tj_PE said:


> Over Nov 4th tho guys


Nov 4th got extended though.


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

Was Nov 4th supposed to be just for the US or for Eurotrash as well?



 You will find more infographics at Statista


----------



## Platypus Engineer

What is the population of EU for comparison


----------



## Road Guy

I think they are around 440 Million to our 350 Million?  So all things being equal would put us around 130K?

Its funny ( to me anyways) if you, today, search for US VS europe Covid Graphs, all but one shows the old data from the summer.. but again this is a marathon, not a sprint..


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Supe

In his defense, he was obviously giving someone the business.


----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

jean15paul_PE said:


> View attachment 19430


The answer is infinity. Because glitter gets everywhere


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Violator




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Road Guy




----------



## Dleg

1 in every 1000 residents in North Dakota has been killed by COVID-19, currently the highest death rate in the world... this is going to be a rough stretch. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/11/18/1-in-every-1000-north-dakota-residents-has-been-killed-by-covid/


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## blybrook PE




----------



## Road Guy

^ Pull over sir, we know you have a Turkey and a Honey Baked Ham! Cant no family of 4 eat all that in one sitting..

You know whats a little funny is that this was going to be the year we crashed my wife's family's big thanksgiving dinner they do every year (in the grand old town of Fort Valley, GA).

For the (going on) 8 years here being 1600 miles away from home and getting invited and lots and lots of grief over never coming - but we were gonna leave our kids here and make a suprise trip - oh well maybe next year..


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Violator




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Road Guy

Lol


----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Saw an ad for the Clapper this morning. Add in all the way over the top perfume/cologne ads, it is officially Christmas season.

Just need to hear "Father Christmas"  by the Kinks and I'm good


----------



## jeb6294

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJCxJBFP/


----------



## Violator

Monday’s


----------



## kevo_55




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Ugh.  So.  Plans for Christmas.  Originally was going to fly, but when I saw the airports for Thanksgiving...yeah, no, I'd much rather drive.  I mentioned it to my parents, and they were actually going to suggest that as well, so I'm now driving from Indiana to Long Island, NY.  I expressed my concerns with both my parents and grandparents about covid, and transmission, but they all said it was a risk they were willing to take.

Due to NY testing requirements, I'm going to test three days before I leave (hopefully I can schedule both a rapid test and a 3-day test, just in case the rapid is a false positive).  I'll leave Thursday after work, have a hotel around 6 hours away.  Sleep for 8 hours and then travel the rest of the way Friday.  Once I arrive, I need to get tested again three days later, so Monday.  Testing is much easier to schedule in NY than Indiana.  I told my parents I'm going to wear my mask while I'm indoors/eat when they aren't, until I get the test results.  Also, even if both my tests come back negative, I'm going to wear my mask with my grandparents/not take it off.  If I need to eat/drink, I'll do so outside.  They all seem fine with believing my test results, if they come back negative, but I don't want to take chances.

Tbh.  The only reason I am still going, instead of just driving down to Arkansas for Christmas, is because my grandparents were continuously asking for me to come on the FaceTime chat we had on Sunday and the 'guilt' card I got from grandma about me not coming for Thanksgiving.


----------



## mudpuppy

Understand your predicament @JayKay PE.  We drove to Georgia (about 12 hour drive) for Thanksgiving.  After a lot of discussion between us and my family and my wife's family, we've decided to skip Christmas altogether.  Pretty much everyone in both families is high-risk (age, diabetes, immune deficiencies, etc.) and we don't want to go around visiting all of them and risk spreading the virus around.  It was bad enough going for Thanksgiving (we wore masks inside and ate outside) but it only seems like things are getting worse.  And if we don't go see one part of the family we can't really in good conscience go see another part.

Fortunately pretty much everyone understood and was on board (both of our families are divorced, so there's four families in total) except my mother-in-law.  But she came around in time.

There really are no good answers these days.


----------



## Road Guy

hopefully you can get some decent weather and have some good time together outside with your grandparents - 

I wont tell you any ICU stories but my wifes cousin skipped her wedding and eloped a few months ago to keep from having the guilt of someone becoming infected at the wedding or due to the wedding ( you wont keep old people away from a wedding) - then she got covid overseas (she is a flight attendant) her new hubs got it, then her mom got it who had come over to help paint a room in their house, then her dad got it ( he just got over colon cancer last year) now they have spread it to another cousin and hs wife and son in south georgia who stopped by to borrow something from her dad, who then have spread it to another family member...

Luckily that happened before thanksgiving because I think it helped keep the rest of the family from getting together at turkey day - also lucky the neice who got it first is now over it because she is now pregnant, and covid + pregnant is a bad mix.

I guess the road to hell is paved with good intentions because her main concern for not having the wedding was her dad, who ended up getting it anyways he still has it but appears to be getting better - about 10 days in currently.

But none of them got it at a restaurant


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> hopefully you can get some decent weather and have some good time together outside with your grandparents -
> 
> I wont tell you any ICU stories but my wifes cousin skipped her wedding and eloped a few months ago to keep from having the guilt of someone becoming infected at the wedding or due to the wedding ( you wont keep old people away from a wedding) - then she got covid overseas (she is a flight attendant) her new hubs got it, then her mom got it who had come over to help paint a room in their house, then her dad got it ( he just got over colon cancer last year) now they have spread it to another cousin and hs wife and son in south georgia who stopped by to borrow something from her dad, who then have spread it to another family member...
> 
> Luckily that happened before thanksgiving because I think it helped keep the rest of the family from getting together at turkey day - also lucky the neice who got it first is now over it because she is now pregnant, and covid + pregnant is a bad mix.
> 
> I guess the road to hell is paved with good intentions because her main concern for not having the wedding was her dad, who ended up getting it anyways he still has it but appears to be getting better - about 10 days in currently.
> 
> But none of them got it at a restaurant


Thanks for that super depressing story...


----------



## Road Guy

sorry ~

but no shit this is probably the least depressing story I have heard in the last week (since all the other storiess involved a death)


----------



## JayKay PE

Yeaaaaaaah.  That's why I'm trying to schedule my testing beforehand and I won't leave until I get a negative.  I'm just super worried about hotels, since I don't think I can do 13 hours straight (especially with night travel).

I just...we'll see.  I might get to the 15th and call it all off/let my parents and grandparents know I don't want to chance it, and just go back to Arkansas for a week or something.  My aunt and uncle have already said that if I want to do a little mini-Christmas with them again that I'm welcome to it (since they've both been quarantining/working from home/work at a city utility company that is pretty strict on their covid guidance).  I mean, that's the only reason I went down to Arkansas for Thanksgiving in the first place.


----------



## mudpuppy

JayKay PE said:


> Yeaaaaaaah.  That's why I'm trying to schedule my testing beforehand and I won't leave until I get a negative.  I'm just super worried about hotels, since I don't think I can do 13 hours straight (especially with night travel).




We've stayed in several hotels during the pandemic.  We take a bunch of Clorox wipes and Lysol and wipe/spray everything upon entering the room.  Some hotels (most Hiltons/Hamptons) have digital keys, so you can check in with the app on your phone, pick your own room near the side door and slip in the side using your phone as a key and never have to interact with anyone.


----------



## Supe

Big chain hotels are pretty good about cleaning right now.  Some of them also have a 48 hour room policy, e.g. after cleaning they won't rent that room back out for an additional 48 hours.


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; dont let my stories scare you because most of them involve people who were really bad at self care prior to the rona..

part of me thinks you are safer travelling (for work) than at home, airplane, hotel, eat takeout in your room etc, you remove a lot of daily contact with people-  (assuming you wear a good mask on the plane)

cause it elminates seeing friends / family / etc


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dang COVID

https://www.nola.com/news/article_59c7a560-33db-11eb-8639-dffaf4948c1c.html


----------



## TrickShotG

jean15paul_PE said:


> Dang COVID
> 
> https://www.nola.com/news/article_59c7a560-33db-11eb-8639-dffaf4948c1c.html


At least they had fun in the process


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## Dleg

JayKay PE said:


>


This is happening here, but in the form of tents that now have tent walls. Those are probably worse than just being indoors with a proper HVAC system.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Dleg said:


> This is happening here, but in the form of tents that now have tent walls. Those are probably worse than just being indoors with a proper HVAC system.






JayKay PE said:


>


Plus the likely inevitable carbon monoxide poisoning from the portable heating used


----------



## JayKay PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> Plus the likely inevitable carbon monoxide poisoning from the portable heating used


One of the dining places near here is actually doing something kinda cool and I want to check it out, but I've told myself no eating out/only take out until I get to NY for Christmas.  They have grabbed a ton of those pods and installed space heaters, but they have it open to the air and each pod is for a dining group of 4.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> One of the dining places near here is actually doing something kinda cool and I want to check it out, but I've told myself no eating out/only take out until I get to NY for Christmas.  They have grabbed a ton of those pods and installed space heaters, but they have it open to the air and each pod is for a dining group of 4.


A restaruant near has tables similar to the top picture


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Chia pet ad. Definitely Christmas season now.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> One of the dining places near here is actually doing something kinda cool and I want to check it out, but I've told myself no eating out/only take out until I get to NY for Christmas.  They have grabbed a ton of those pods and installed space heaters, but they have it open to the air and each pod is for a dining group of 4.


That looks pretty cool


----------



## Road Guy

One of our local favorite places just said to hell with it and closed until January    - He said the City (who shut them down) basically called them dumb for not renting tents and such and doing outdoor dining - he said the cost to rent / buy all that shit was tripple what his lease is so he is just closing down and hopes they will be able to open January - the City probably only cares because of the lost tax revenue - 

I do think almost any type of airflow has to help negate transmission - if it works on an airplane it should work if you have some doors / windows open (similar to the post about that gym)


----------



## snickerd3

our fav sushi place has been take out only since like may. They were closed completely for about 2 months in the march/april timeframe.  It's awesome, it doesn't take as long anymore since they aren't waiting on tables.    

  a couple places did the tent thing, but with the colder weather creeping in those are disappearing.


----------



## JayKay PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> Chia pet ad. Definitely Christmas season now.


Are you telling me you saw a Covid19 molecule Chia pet?  BECAUSE IF YOU DID.  I JUST MIGHT----


----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> Are you telling me you saw a Covid19 molecule Chia pet?  BECAUSE IF YOU DID.  I JUST MIGHT----


No unfortunately but  i am surprised there isnt. It was unicorn and llama. And the "Child" from the Mandalorian series.

Seriously, Lucas and Spielberg,  dont u have enough money


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> One of our local favorite places just said to hell with it and closed until January    - He said the City (who shut them down) basically called them dumb for not renting tents and such and doing outdoor dining - he said the cost to rent / buy all that shit was tripple what his lease is so he is just closing down and hopes they will be able to open January - the City probably only cares because of the lost tax revenue -
> 
> I do think almost any type of airflow has to help negate transmission - if it works on an airplane it should work if you have some doors / windows open (similar to the post about that gym)


I saw an interview last night with someone from a brewhouse in CO. It is in an old warehouse building, co owner said they opened warehouse doors to improve airflow. Local inspector said no.


----------



## Road Guy

Because sadly most places around here have elected bored stay at home parents to City Council / County Commissioner posts.

Everyone wants to listen to science until someone tries some science


----------



## Platypus Engineer

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trust-the-science-until-the-science-doesnt-support-the-nanny-state

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/newsom-slammed-for-tweet-on-small-businesses-as-state-faces-stricter-lockdowns

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nearly-one-third-of-new-jersey-and-new-york-businesses-have-closed-in-2020-due-to-virus-lockdowns


----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Sign at my gym. But yea they need to close


----------



## Road Guy

And I know Ive preached this before but the vast majority of my wifes patients who died from covid were not old folks, they were 55 year old dudes with 50 lbs of extra weight on them.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> And I know Ive preached this before but the vast majority of my wifes patients who died from covid were not old folks, they were 55 year old dudes with 50 lbs of extra weight on them.


I saw a story this morning 104 year old WWII vet recovered from COVID.

i have lost a significant amount of weight over the past few years, because of what some of my family has gone through with health issues, glad I did it especially now.

And I heard that every 10 lbs of fat creates 7 miles of blood vessels, so heart has to pump even harder.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## wilheldp_PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> I saw a story this morning 104 year old WWII vet recovered from COVID.


My 94-year-old grandfather with pulmonary fibrosis caught Covid, nearly died from it, and recovered.  Turned 95 last month.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

This links to a twitter video from restaraunt owner makes some good points (mild Profanity in video)

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2020/12/04/video-restaurant-owners-fume-at-capricious-ruinous-covid-restrictions-n2581057

N Korea executed someone for violating lockdown:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/12/04/north-korea-has-strict-punishments-for-those-breaking-coronavirus-lockdowns-n2581083


----------



## Violator




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## jeb6294

Says the generation who had to be told not to eat Tide Pods....



Dleg said:


> View attachment 19786


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Interesting piece from the RAND corporation about insurers possibility considering surviving COVID as a pre-existing condition.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/11/covid-19-could-become-a-widespread-pre-existing-condition.html



> Given the chronic problems [which can include organ damage, fatigue and confusion] associated with some COVID-19 cases, it is possible that some insurers would place restrictions on anyone who had a confirmed case of COVID-19.


----------



## leggo PE

jeb6294 said:


> Says the generation who had to be told not to eat Tide Pods....


But the tide pod challenge was them as kids, not adults haha!

What about the adults who poured bleach down their guts when a certain person said it might help fight COVID? The same Covid which, by the way, is a hoax...


----------



## Road Guy

If anyone actually listened to that and went home and drink bleach then we are better off without them

But don’t forget all these mayors....







I think there are one or two in California too


----------



## csb

I'd like to know more about his ear pods.


----------



## leggo PE

Road Guy said:


> I think there are one or two in California too


Yep, well, sort of. Our governor went and ate a meal indoors in a restaurant, like a week after he said don't do that. Or something like that?


----------



## csb

Our governor told us to stop being knuckleheads and then he got COVID.


----------



## Road Guy

ours too!


----------



## Supe

leggo PE said:


> Yep, well, sort of. Our governor went and ate a meal indoors in a restaurant, like a week after he said don't do that. Or something like that?


IIRC, he threw a fairly large birthday party in a private room at a restaurant with no masks.  He also tweeted to "shop local" after putting countless locals out of business...


----------



## Road Guy




----------



## jeb6294

Road Guy said:


> If anyone actually listened to that and went home and drink bleach then we are better off without them
> 
> But don’t forget all these mayors....


And let’s not forget their queen....


----------



## Road Guy

you know there are no do overs in life and I think most all elected officials of all political affiliation wish they could get a decision or two back, but the one thing Id really like to see the world come together on is how the F is this happening?




Maybe  china is cooking the books, but pretty much every country of any size (not counting small islands like NZ) are trying everything to "contain" something that you cant contain and losing, yet the most populated country isnt having any issues? maybe they are wearing 2 maks and staying 8 feet apart? 

Did they shoot everyone in Wuhan? Are they just not providing numbers? Did they already develop a vaccine / magic pill?


----------



## Dleg

I certainly have my suspicions, but then again they are an incredibly tightly controlled country. But I am also sure they are hiding what is actually happening.

But if you are effective at stopping people at the border and quarantining them, you can keep it under control. Like you said, NZ and even Australia (entire continent) are now Covid-free, or largely Covid-free because of this. All of the US affiliated Pacific islands (except Guam) are Covid-free, because they have maintained strict quarantine rules (Guam eliminated quarantine in June for certain US points of origin and then lost control of Covid in August).  I think the US was right to restrict travel from China and the EU when it did, but it was too late.


----------



## Violator




----------



## Violator




----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> Says the generation who had to be told not to eat Tide Pods....


And the generation that made Taylor Swift a star


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> If anyone actually listened to that and went home and drink bleach then we are better off without them
> 
> But don’t forget all these mayors....
> 
> View attachment 19791
> 
> 
> View attachment 19790
> 
> 
> I think there are one or two in California too


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/heres-a-list-of-all-the-democratic-officials-who-have-defied-their-own-coronavirus-restrictions


----------



## jeb6294

Platypus Engineer said:


> And the generation that made Taylor Swift a star


And deemed “Baby its Cold Outside” offensive, but “WAP” is okay.


----------



## leggo PE

Oh man, everyone loves to hate on the generations younger than them!

For the record, I love Taylor Swift.


----------



## snickerd3

Platypus Engineer said:


> View attachment 19814


THIS!!!!!!


----------



## csb

(     )


----------



## snickerd3

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-diagnostics-how-do-saliva-tests-compare-to-swabs--68035


----------



## csb

When we got nasal swabbed, my kid was really nervous. I kept telling him, "Look over there at that person getting tested. See how fast it was?" Well then I told him to watch the car he could see easily and there was a younger girl in there and she SCREAMED when the nasal swab went in. My kid's eyes get huge and he looks over at me and I was like, "Ha ha ha, you'll be fine." The guy who swabbed our noses shoved the thing up there and then LEFT IT FOR A BIT and shoved it in further and then extracted it. It was rough.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> Ugh. People who are against date-rape are SO annoying. I also hate it when women take control of their bodies. UGH.


I always thought " Baby Its Cold Outside" was a stupid song, so I didn't really pay any  attention  to lyrics.
 

I think the point that was trying to be made was what people object to now. Not really up on pop culture, but some songs are nothing but strings of profanities, calling all women prostitutes (other word used) things like that. 

The Rudolph special from the 1960s was on the other night. Had a text exchange with my brother and cousin about all the ways that would be considered offensive now, you know mocking people because they're different, bullying, sending people away because they're different.

I know standards change have come a long way sine Rolling Stones were asked to change lyrics of one their songs from "Lets spend the night together" to "lets spend some time together" so it could be played on TV


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> you know there are no do overs in life and I think most all elected officials of all political affiliation wish they could get a decision or two back, but the one thing Id really like to see the world come together on is how the F is this happening?
> 
> View attachment 19802
> 
> 
> Maybe  china is cooking the books, but pretty much every country of any size (not counting small islands like NZ) are trying everything to "contain" something that you cant contain and losing, yet the most populated country isnt having any issues? maybe they are wearing 2 maks and staying 8 feet apart?
> 
> Did they shoot everyone in Wuhan? Are they just not providing numbers? Did they already develop a vaccine / magic pill?


It is accepted in a lot of place that China is grossly under reporting numbers.

N Korea is apparently shooting people:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/12/04/north-korea-has-strict-punishments-for-those-breaking-coronavirus-lockdowns-n2581083


----------



## Supe

NC just added a 10PM-5AM curfew with a 9PM alcohol serving curfew.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

What a joke:

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/cuomo-accepts-emmy-as-pandemic-surges/


----------



## csb

Supe said:


> NC just added a 10PM-5AM curfew with a 9PM alcohol serving curfew.


We now have a 10PM bar closure and my cheap ass is like, "Man, remember drinking at bars 16 years ago?" Then I laugh as I count my money.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

csb said:


> We now have a 10PM bar closure and my cheap ass is like, "Man, remember drinking at bars 16 years ago?" Then I laugh as I count my money.


I'm like, "man, remember drinking anything besides (literally) free water???" *making it rain gesture*


----------



## bwin12

csb said:


> The guy who swabbed our noses shoved the thing up there and then LEFT IT FOR A BIT and shoved it in further and then extracted it. It was rough.


I have never sneezed so hard/satisfyingly in my life. But the test I got was just barely in my nose, not the brain tickler I have heard descriptions of.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

I can't post memes and laugh all the time. This isn't the most pleasant read, but it's reality for hundreds of thousands of hospitalized Americans and the health care workers struggling to care for them right now. 

*What seven ICU nurses want you to know about the battle against covid-19*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/icu-nurses-covid-19/


----------



## Dleg

https://www.theonion.com/i-am-immortal-screams-90-year-old-british-woman-emba-1845834963?utm_campaign=The+Onion&amp;utm_content=1607466301&amp;utm_medium=SocialMarketing&amp;utm_source=facebook


----------



## Supe

csb said:


> We now have a 10PM bar closure and my cheap ass is like, "Man, remember drinking at bars 16 years ago?" Then I laugh as I count my money.


The last time I drank at a bar that wasn't a hotel bar was when I met Mrs. Supe!  (We arranged to meet there, she wasn't a bar hag, LOL).


----------



## Platypus Engineer

The link below is from a webinar I attended a few weeks ago. It discusses the explosion at the Port of Beirut from this summer. The before and after scenes are kind of stunning. The grain silos were a row of three, one left were the outermost set, are now permanently titled.  Forensic / structural not really my area of expertise, but attended mainly out of curiosity / expand knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTxhEkKQBes


----------



## Road Guy

reminder, please do not post washington post links here, I swear to god I will give the keys to the site to someone in Orlando!


----------



## csb

Holy crap. At the risk of YKW taking over EB, that article was a gut punch and seems to go right along with the medical folks I've talked to through all of this.


----------



## Road Guy

It leaves out some other observations ive heard around my house..

Nurses,staff continue to get treated like shit by hopsital management (inlcuding nurse supervisors and people who call themselves nurse educators) - they will hang out a '" heros work here sign" and then bitch  at them for asking for a new face shield (for example), or for not putting a smiley sticker on the white board. They will offer incentives to come to work for extra money and then do everything possible to cheat you out of it when you come in ( guess thats any job though) - Dont let this image being presented that the office schmucks who run these hospitals are really doing anything to make life better for the peasants that do the actual work at the hopsital. 

The one good thing about covid patients is they dont have to deal with what most consider the worst part of their job ( the patients asshole family members) -  just yesterday the lady I cohabitate with said she was scolded on the ipad /phonecall because it didnt look like her moms hair had been washed and she was concerned with the level of care she was receiving (if you have seen the pics of what these covid icu rooms look like this isnt  really priority #1) -

So maybe they could add in a "dont be a dick" when your family member is in the hospital to part of the article?  Maybe they could mention all the other BS that is part of their job that doesnt have to be instead of making it sound like the only bad part of their job is covid. 

They have hard jobs, ive been trying everything possible prior to all of this to get my lady out of this career because its a mental beat down every day, covid, non covid, its a shitty job that truly doesnt pay enough under any cicumstances.


----------



## ruggercsc

Road Guy said:


> reminder, please do not post washington post links here, I swear to god I will give the keys to the site to someone in Orlando!


Are Infowars and OAN links okay?  BTW, I get a big laugh out of OAN calling Fox News the left wing media.


----------



## Road Guy

probably in the same boat but i dont think they parade as a legitmate news source like the washington post


----------



## Road Guy

one funny story about some over reaction on the staff (nurse) part and a combined dumb idea from "mgmt' is her hospital started spiking mid to late October, towards the end of the month the Director of Nursing and the _idiot _Epidemiologist came around handing out candy, on a covid floor.. apparently all the RN's were all GFY.. later when I was told this story I was like you know it may have just been a Halloween thing?  - but thats sort of the mood..


----------



## Violator

Am I the only one that thinks its a little strange to give the vaccines to 94 year olds?


----------



## P-E

Violator said:


> Am I the only one that thinks its a little strange to give the vaccines to 94 year olds?


They should get the vaccine.  They are more apt to require a hospital bed and ventilator.  The idea is to reduce the number needed to go to the hospital, unless you are suggesting that they die at home.


----------



## Violator

Oh sure say it like that and it makes me out to be a horrible person 

I live in the land of old people and part of me thinks that if you have made it to 90 and not living in a home you are probably going to be okay.


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> reminder, please do not post washington post links here, I swear to god I will give the keys to the site to someone in Orlando!


In my defense it was only the direct nurses' stories. No editorial content from WaPo.


----------



## P-E

Violator said:


> Oh sure say it like that and it makes me out to be a horrible person
> 
> I live in the land of old people and part of me thinks that if you have made it to 90 and not living in a home you are probably going to be okay.


I have a 97 yr old grandma in Sarasota I'd like to see at least one more time before she goes.  My trip in April got cancelled.   Been a couple years since I've been to Florida.  Hope to get there in 2021.


----------



## Road Guy

Mr chow get angry sometimes....


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> reminder, please do not post washington post links here, I swear to god I will give the keys to the site to someone in Orlando!


I would like to request the full list of banned links please.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Violator said:


> Am I the only one that thinks its a little strange to give the vaccines to 94 year olds?


Most of the deaths are in people 80+, so makes sense for them to go first, Especially if they are in a nursing home. Plus if theyre vaccinated can have visit from family


----------



## snickerd3

Violator said:


> Am I the only one that thinks its a little strange to give the vaccines to 94 year olds?


Why not??  90 is the new 80...at least around here.  The  nonagenarians I've met are still mostly spry and youthful acting.  But I would never have guessed they were in their 90s.  It is a stupid accident like a trip/slip that does them in.  It starts a whole cascade failure situation.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

snickerd3 said:


> It is a stupid accident like a trip/slip that does them in.  It starts a whole cascade failure situation.


Agree. Had an uncle that was WWII vet, on Beach in Normandy on D-Day. Worked as linemen for electric utility. What nearly killed him after retirement was two small blood vessels in his neck burst, caused stroke.


----------



## Violator

I am actually torn between thinking it should be offered to the most likely to get sick and die from it first and targeting the people who are most likely to transmit it to the people who will most likely die from it.

However no matter if you start at the top of the age bracket and work your way down or if you start in the middle, its going to seem like a drop in the bucket for several months still.


----------



## bwin12

Violator said:


> However no matter if you start at the top of the age bracket and work your way down or if you start in the middle, its going to seem like a drop in the bucket for several months still.


I've wondered about this, is there any info out there about how fast they can distribute a vaccine?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

bwin12 said:


> I've wondered about this, is there any info out there about how fast they can distribute a vaccine?


Nothing official, but I've heard a couple experts say March at the earliest ... Summer at the latest... before the vaccine is widely available.


----------



## Road Guy

&amp; Id assume the 15 Million people that already have had it dont need the vaccine?  Thats only 4-5% but I guess every little bit helps..

I dont know if there is a plan to do all 320 Million of us? + the rest of the world?

The Spanish Flu jsut sort of died out after 18 months but it was infecting and killing quickly not like this one. This virus is like watching one of those 4 on 3 youth soccer games with no score that never ends...


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> &amp; Id assume the 15 Million people that already have had it dont need the vaccine?


I saw a news story that the vaccine appears to provide better immunity than actually recovering from the virus. Supposedly cases of people getting re-infected, but the vaccine immunity seems more effective. I can't explain it because I don't know enough. (Shit the scientists are still figuring it out.) But I wouldn't assume that people who have had the virus don't need the vaccine.



Road Guy said:


> I dont know if there is a plan to do all 320 Million of us? + the rest of the world?


I believe the drug companies are selling vaccines to various country governments. I have no idea how they will prioritize different countries.


----------



## Road Guy

Just so long as Canada is last...


----------



## jeb6294

Between the Bell’s Palsy, allergic reactions and “shaking so hard he cracked a tooth”, you guys go on ahead without me.


----------



## Violator




----------



## csb

Knowing what I know now, I'd definitely get the vaccine. I still can't breathe as well as before and my brain is still shit and that is making me more nervous than anything.


----------



## Road Guy

The idea of getting the vaccine seams weird after youve already had it seems strange to me.  But I guess they have a flu shot each year -

note I am not a scientist, just an engineer, although we have to stamp shit and have accountability for life..


----------



## bwin12

Road Guy said:


> The idea of getting the vaccine seams weird after youve already had it seems strange to me.  But I guess they have a flu shot each year -


My wife's niece had covid. Her doctor told her she can't catch covid again for 3 months. That's it. 

I also remember reading about one of the NFL teams that got hit hard (Ravens I think). They had 3 or 4 strains in their locker room. Can you get one strain of covid and then inside or outside of three months get covid again, but a different strain?


----------



## Dleg

What I've been told is if you've had Covid, and been fully symptomatic, you really don't need the vaccine.  But they won't stop you from getting one if you want it. If you tested positive but never had symptoms, or only very mild ones, I've been told you should consider getting the vaccine. 

But yes, the plan is to provide enough vaccines for every American to have one. However there's so much anti vax stuff out there now... I don't get it. Everyone bitching the loudest about shut downs and masks are the same ones refusing to do the one thing that will end it. You guys are like super Boomers.


----------



## envirotex

Dleg said:


> However there's so much anti vax stuff out there now... I don't get it.


I'm not anti-vax, at all...If you want to get the vaccine you should get it.  I may get it...I'm just worried that like the regular flu vaccine it won't be effective against all of the strains.  I've heard numbers like 90%+ effective.  Well, OK.  Is that against one strain that they have in the lab for reproducibility or what's out in the wild that's mutating?  But...we just won't know until enough people have been vaccinated, just like with the regular flu vaccine in any given flu season.


----------



## Dleg

Everything I have seen and been personally told says it is effective.  It works against the spike proteins and so far those haven't changed enough with any of the mutations to make a difference to the immune response. Not entirely sure about the mink strain, though.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

envirotex said:


> I'm not anti-vax, at all...If you want to get the vaccine you should get it.  I may get it...I'm just worried that like the *regular* flu vaccine it won't be effective against all of the strains.  I've heard numbers like 90%+ effective.  Well, OK.  Is that against one strain that they have in the lab for reproducibility or what's out in the wild that's mutating?  But...we just won't know until enough people have been vaccinated, just like with the regular flu vaccine in any given flu season.


----------



## Road Guy

We have to remember that medical mistakes are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US so dont beleive "everything" someone tells you just because they are a "Doctor" - I (personally) think the 90 days thing is just a conservative guess. Sort of like adding a factor of safety of 5000 to a retaining wall design.

The Mrs is supposed to get hers Tuesday - they are making them get it on their "off day" because apparantly you feel bad the day you get it and they dont want the factory to suffer   

But I guess they are freaked out and wont disclose the locatoin where they are getting the shots at. Maybe Antifa is going to hijack them for themselves and Chad.  I may have to drive her and provide security.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> We have to remember that medical mistakes are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US so dont beleive "everything" someone tells you just because they are a "Doctor" - I (personally) think the 90 days thing is just a conservative guess. Sort of like adding a factor of safety of 5000 to a retaining wall design.
> 
> The Mrs is supposed to get hers Tuesday - they are making them get it on their "off day" because apparantly you feel bad the day you get it and they dont want the factory to suffer
> 
> But I guess they are freaked out and wont disclose the locatoin where they are getting the shots at. Maybe Antifa is going to hijack them for themselves and Chad.  I may have to drive her and provide security.


You think it's going to be faster than that?

I would have guessed significantly longer. Like _hopefully_ everyone is vaccinated by Aug/Sept 2021 when schools reopen, but I wouldn't bet on it.


----------



## Road Guy

sorry, no i meant the doctors saying if you get covid you are only immune for 90 days...


----------



## bwin12

Road Guy said:


> I (personally) think the 90 days thing is just a conservative guess. Sort of like adding a factor of safety of 5000 to a retaining wall design.


I said the same thing to my wife.

I'm not antivax, but I always feel like crap the day(s) after getting any shot, especially the flu shot. All I can say with certainty is I will not be first in line for the shot... even if they let me.


----------



## P-E

Road Guy said:


> Maybe Antifa is going to hijack them for themselves and Chad.  I may have to drive her and provide security.


They would never give them to Chad.  He’s too white.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## jeb6294

Something to consider before getting poked. I don’t know this doctor and have not verified any info - I’ll leave that up to you...just passing it along as I found it interesting.
Copied and pasted from a friend.
From a Dr. regarding the upcoming vaccines:
Last week I must have been asked 20 times about the new COVID vaccines. Here are my thoughts. Please pass this informatiion onto many as you can. People need to have fully informed consent when it comes to injecting foreign genetic material into their bodies.
1.    The COVID vaccines are mRNA vaccines. mRNA vaccines are a completely new type of vaccine. No mRNA vaccine has ever been licensed for human use before. In essence, we have absolutely no idea what to expect from this vaccine. We have no idea if it will be effective or safe.
2.    Traditional vaccine simply introduce pieces of a virus to stimulate an immune reaction. The new mRNA vaccine is completely different. It actually injects (transfects) molecules of synthetic genetic material from non-humans sources into our cells. Once in the cells, the genetic material interacts with our transfer RNA (tRNA) to make a foreign protein that supposedly teaches the body to destroy the virus being coded for. Note that these newly created proteins are not regulated by our own DNA, and are thus completely foreign to our cells. What they are fully capable of doing is unknown.
3.    The mRNA molecule is vulnerable to destruction. So, in order to protect the fragile mRNA strands while they are being inserted into our DNA they are coated with PEGylated lipid nanoparticles.  This coating hides the mRNA from our immune system which ordinarily would kill any foreign material injected into the body. PEGylated lipid nanoparticles have been used in several different drugs for years. Because of their effect on immune system balance, several studies have shown them to induce allergies and autoimmune diseases.  Additionally, PEGylated lipid nanoparticles have been shown to trigger their own immune reactions, and to cause damage to the liver.
4.    These new vaccines are additionally contaminated with aluminum, mercury, and possibly formaldehyde. The manufacturers have not yet disclosed what other toxins they contain.
5.    Since viruses mutate frequently, the chance of any vaccine working for more than a year is unlikely. That is why the flu vaccine changes every year. Last year’s vaccine is no more valuable than last year’s newspaper.
6.    Absolutely no long term safety studies will have been done to ensure that any of these vaccines don’t cause the cancer, seizures, heart disease, allergies, and autoimmune diseases seen with other vaccines. If you ever wanted to be guinea pig for Big Pharma, now is your golden opportunity.
7.    Many experts question whether the mRNA technology is ready for prime time. In November 2020, Dr. Peter Jay Hotez said of the new mRNA vaccines, "I worry about innovation at the expense of practicality because they [the mRNA vaccines] are weighted toward technology platforms that have never made it to licensure before.” Dr. Hotez is Professor of Pediatrics and Molecular Virology &amp; Microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine, where he is also Director of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.
8.    Michal Linial, PhD is a Professor of Biochemistry. Because of her research and forecasts on COVID-19, Dr. Linial has been widely quoted in the media. She recently stated, "I won't be taking it [the mRNA vaccine] immediately – probably not for at least the coming year. We have to wait and see whether it really works. We will have a safety profile for only a certain number of months, so if there is a long-term effect after two years, we cannot know."
9.    In November 2020, The Washington Post reported on hesitancy among healthcare professionals in the United States to the mRNA vaccines, citing surveys which reported that: "some did not want to be in the first round, so they could wait and see if there are potential side effects", and that "doctors and nurses want more data before championing vaccines to end the pandemic".
10. Since the death rate from COVID resumed to the normal flu death rate way back in early September, the pandemic has been over since then. Therefore, at this point in time no vaccine is needed. The current scare tactics regarding “escalating cases” is based on a PCR test that because it exceeds 34 amplifications has a 100% false positive rate unless it is performed between the 3rd and 5th day after the first day of symptoms. It is therefor 100% inaccurate in people with no symptoms. This is well established in the scientific literature. See the attachment (False Positive PCR testing is up to 100%!) for more information on this. If you go to the CDC site (file:///C:/Users/docto/AppData/Local/Temp/cdc_97230_DS1.pdf ), you can see that the weekly death rates in the US are now lower than they normally are during an average flu season.
11. The other reason you don’t need a vaccine for COVID-19 is that substantial herd immunity has already taken place in the United States. This is the primary reason for the end of the pandemic.
12. Unfortunately, you cannot completely trust what you hear from the media. They have consistently got it wrong for the past year.  Since they are all supported by Big Pharma and the other entities selling the COVID vaccines, they are not going to be fully forthcoming when it comes to mRNA vaccines. Every statement I have made here is fully backed by published scientific references.
13. I would be very interested to see verification that Bill and Melinda Gates with their entire family including grandchildren, Joe Biden and President Trump and their entire families, and Anthony Fauci and his entire family all get the vaccine.
14. Anyone who after reading all this still wants to get injected with the mRNA vaccine, should at the very least have their blood checked for COVID-19 antibodies. There is no need for a vaccine in persons already naturally immunized.
Here's my bottom line: I would much rather get a COVID infection than get a COVID vaccine. That would be safer and more effective. I have had a number of COVID positive flu cases this year. Some were old and had health concerns. Every single one has done really well with natural therapies including ozone therapy and IV vitamin C. Just because modern medicine has no effective treatment for viral infections, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.
Yours Always,
Frank Shallenberger, MD, HMD


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> Something to consider before getting poked. I don’t know this doctor and have not verified any info - I’ll leave that up to you...just passing it along as I found it interesting.
> Copied and pasted from a friend.
> From a Dr. regarding the upcoming vaccines:
> Last week I must have been asked 20 times about the new COVID vaccines. Here are my thoughts. Please pass this informatiion onto many as you can. People need to have fully informed consent when it comes to injecting foreign genetic material into their bodies.
> 1.    The COVID vaccines are mRNA vaccines. mRNA vaccines are a completely new type of vaccine. No mRNA vaccine has ever been licensed for human use before. In essence, we have absolutely no idea what to expect from this vaccine. We have no idea if it will be effective or safe.
> 2.    Traditional vaccine simply introduce pieces of a virus to stimulate an immune reaction. The new mRNA vaccine is completely different. It actually injects (transfects) molecules of synthetic genetic material from non-humans sources into our cells. Once in the cells, the genetic material interacts with our transfer RNA (tRNA) to make a foreign protein that supposedly teaches the body to destroy the virus being coded for. Note that these newly created proteins are not regulated by our own DNA, and are thus completely foreign to our cells. What they are fully capable of doing is unknown.
> 3.    The mRNA molecule is vulnerable to destruction. So, in order to protect the fragile mRNA strands while they are being inserted into our DNA they are coated with PEGylated lipid nanoparticles.  This coating hides the mRNA from our immune system which ordinarily would kill any foreign material injected into the body. PEGylated lipid nanoparticles have been used in several different drugs for years. Because of their effect on immune system balance, several studies have shown them to induce allergies and autoimmune diseases.  Additionally, PEGylated lipid nanoparticles have been shown to trigger their own immune reactions, and to cause damage to the liver.
> 4.    These new vaccines are additionally contaminated with aluminum, mercury, and possibly formaldehyde. The manufacturers have not yet disclosed what other toxins they contain.
> 5.    Since viruses mutate frequently, the chance of any vaccine working for more than a year is unlikely. That is why the flu vaccine changes every year. Last year’s vaccine is no more valuable than last year’s newspaper.
> 6.    Absolutely no long term safety studies will have been done to ensure that any of these vaccines don’t cause the cancer, seizures, heart disease, allergies, and autoimmune diseases seen with other vaccines. If you ever wanted to be guinea pig for Big Pharma, now is your golden opportunity.
> 7.    Many experts question whether the mRNA technology is ready for prime time. In November 2020, Dr. Peter Jay Hotez said of the new mRNA vaccines, "I worry about innovation at the expense of practicality because they [the mRNA vaccines] are weighted toward technology platforms that have never made it to licensure before.” Dr. Hotez is Professor of Pediatrics and Molecular Virology &amp; Microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine, where he is also Director of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.
> 8.    Michal Linial, PhD is a Professor of Biochemistry. Because of her research and forecasts on COVID-19, Dr. Linial has been widely quoted in the media. She recently stated, "I won't be taking it [the mRNA vaccine] immediately – probably not for at least the coming year. We have to wait and see whether it really works. We will have a safety profile for only a certain number of months, so if there is a long-term effect after two years, we cannot know."
> 9.    In November 2020, The Washington Post reported on hesitancy among healthcare professionals in the United States to the mRNA vaccines, citing surveys which reported that: "some did not want to be in the first round, so they could wait and see if there are potential side effects", and that "doctors and nurses want more data before championing vaccines to end the pandemic".
> 10. Since the death rate from COVID resumed to the normal flu death rate way back in early September, the pandemic has been over since then. Therefore, at this point in time no vaccine is needed. The current scare tactics regarding “escalating cases” is based on a PCR test that because it exceeds 34 amplifications has a 100% false positive rate unless it is performed between the 3rd and 5th day after the first day of symptoms. It is therefor 100% inaccurate in people with no symptoms. This is well established in the scientific literature. See the attachment (False Positive PCR testing is up to 100%!) for more information on this. If you go to the CDC site (file:///C:/Users/docto/AppData/Local/Temp/cdc_97230_DS1.pdf ), you can see that the weekly death rates in the US are now lower than they normally are during an average flu season.
> 11. The other reason you don’t need a vaccine for COVID-19 is that substantial herd immunity has already taken place in the United States. This is the primary reason for the end of the pandemic.
> 12. Unfortunately, you cannot completely trust what you hear from the media. They have consistently got it wrong for the past year.  Since they are all supported by Big Pharma and the other entities selling the COVID vaccines, they are not going to be fully forthcoming when it comes to mRNA vaccines. Every statement I have made here is fully backed by published scientific references.
> 13. I would be very interested to see verification that Bill and Melinda Gates with their entire family including grandchildren, Joe Biden and President Trump and their entire families, and Anthony Fauci and his entire family all get the vaccine.
> 14. Anyone who after reading all this still wants to get injected with the mRNA vaccine, should at the very least have their blood checked for COVID-19 antibodies. There is no need for a vaccine in persons already naturally immunized.
> Here's my bottom line: I would much rather get a COVID infection than get a COVID vaccine. That would be safer and more effective. I have had a number of COVID positive flu cases this year. Some were old and had health concerns. Every single one has done really well with natural therapies including ozone therapy and IV vitamin C. Just because modern medicine has no effective treatment for viral infections, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.
> Yours Always,
> Frank Shallenberger, MD, HMD


Something to consider if you read the post above. I'm not an expert, so I'll just share this info. I'll leave any conclusions up to you. I just found it interesting.


This was originally published on Principia Scientific. Here's a link to the original article. https://principia-scientific.com/about-informed-vaccine-consent-frank-shallenberger-md-hmd/

Principia Scientific is widely considered a conspiracy and pseudoscience website. For example, they are anti-vaccine. They believe that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas, and that the polar icecaps are growing. Here's some links to articles about Principia Scientific

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/principia-scientific-international/

https://www.desmogblog.com/principia-scientific-international

https://sciencefeedback.co/outlet/principia-scientific/

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120892-principia-scientific-international/


----------



## Dleg

There's so much misinformation in that article, I don't even know where to start. So let's just start with the obvious: the pandemic is NOT over, and it is entering its biggest wave yet. "Herd immunity" isn't even close to happening, and never will without a vaccine (did we ever get herd immunity to chicken pox? measles? polio?). Second, the "side effects" of COVID include death and dozens of other serious conditions (great example: documented heart damage from viral infections in up to 40-50% of all survivors; see Florida Gators' Keyontae Johnson in-game collapse yesterday).  The side effects of the vaccine so far include feeling sick for a day (totally expected since it is so effective at triggering the immune system) and serious allergic reactions in people who have experienced serious allergic reactions. I'll take my chances with the vaccine over the virus, any day. The vaccine went through all phases of the FDA vaccine approval process - many of the so-called long term side effects he cites for other vaccines are made-up, anti-vax propaganda. Finally, other people's reluctance to take a vaccine is not evidence of anything other than uninformed opinions.


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## Violator

But has anyone checked the vaccine if you also get wet and eat after midnight the day you get the vaccine?


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## jeb6294

He didn't say that COVID was gone, he said that the death rate had dropped to what the flu usually is every year. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find anything right off hand and I've got better things to do besides obsess over COVID numbers all day. Besides that, any number you might come up with is going to be tainted since they've been fudging numbers since day 1.

There are plenty of other side affects but they're so busy trying to get this out there that nobody bothered to talk about them. There are people in the trials who ended up with Bell's Palsy vs 0 in the placebo group. One person in the trial talked about getting the chills/shakes so bad he cracked a tooth.

Finally, other peoples reluctance to getting a vaccine is from actually getting information from someplace besides Facebook and have doubts about a vaccine that was developed in a few months rather than years like they usually do.

I said before, you go right ahead and cut to the front of the line, but I'm not injecting anything until they've had time to really sort out what this "cure" is really doing to people.


----------



## csb

FUCK EVERYONE WHO USES DEATH RATE AS THE ONLY THING TO JUDGE A VIRUS. 

FUCK, "BuT dId YoU DiE?!"

FUCK NOT BEING ABLE TO REMEMBER SHIT BECAUSE PEOPLE BROUGHT COVID TO WORK BECAUSE "IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT BAD."

FUCK EVERYONE WHO IS USING PROPAGANDA WEBSITES. 

FUCK EVERYONE COMPARING A FUCKING NOVEL CORONAVIRUS TO THE FLU.


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## Road Guy

But wouldlnt it be sort of funny to see Clinton, W, and Obama all keal over and die when they get the shot on live TV?


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## csb

No.


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## Road Guy

not even a little?


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## Road Guy

tough room....

oking:

Mrs RG is supposed to get hers Wednesay. She is 100X smarter than me &amp; Id offer a lot of people.  She had a slow day at work since all her covid patients died ( true story) so she and one of the nuero sergeons she works with did a ton of self research on it.  They convinced themselves to take it.

So scientific question, once she has the vaccine in her body, how many times do her and I have to have relations, in order for me to get the vaccine also?  :dunno:


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> tough room....
> 
> oking:
> 
> Mrs RG is supposed to get hers Wednesay. She is 100X smarter than me &amp; Id offer a lot of people.  She had a slow day at work since all her covid patients died ( true story) so she and one of the nuero sergeons she works with did a ton of self research on it.  They convinced themselves to take it.
> 
> So scientific question, once she has the vaccine in her body, how many times do her and I have to have relations, in order for me to get the vaccine also?  :dunno:


You get the vaccine instantly from relations, but your immunity only last 1 day. So plan for that.


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## csb

How are you having relations that you're getting injected  with something?


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## Road Guy




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## csb

Just saying...I'm usually the one getting injected.  :eyebrows:


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## Road Guy

I figure if i can get a disease from relations then I could get a little bit of the vaccine as well?


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## csb

You're going to need a lot of drive-thru margaritas to gain immunity.


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## Dleg

jeb6294 said:


> He didn't say that COVID was gone, he said that the death rate had dropped to what the flu usually is every year. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find anything right off hand and I've got better things to do besides obsess over COVID numbers all day. Besides that, any number you might come up with is going to be tainted since they've been fudging numbers since day 1.
> 
> There are plenty of other side affects but they're so busy trying to get this out there that nobody bothered to talk about them. There are people in the trials who ended up with Bell's Palsy vs 0 in the placebo group. One person in the trial talked about getting the chills/shakes so bad he cracked a tooth.
> 
> *Finally, other peoples reluctance to getting a vaccine is from actually getting information from someplace besides Facebook *and have doubts about a vaccine that was developed in a few months rather than years like they usually do.
> 
> I said before, you go right ahead and cut to the front of the line, but I'm not injecting anything until they've had time to really sort out what this "cure" is really doing to people.


So you didn't get your "cut and pasted from a friend" post from Facebook?  LOL. 

I get my information from the FDA, CDC, etc. "Strange people lying on Facebook and distributing medical advice is no basis for a system of medicine"






Oh and yes he did say the pandemic has ended. Check his item 11.


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## Road Guy

I cant disagree with this part thoughmainly the bold portion)



> 12. *Unfortunately, you cannot completely trust what you hear from the media.* They have consistently got it wrong for the past year.



But this part lets me know this guy is basically a Chiroporacter?
 



> Here's my bottom line: I would much rather get a COVID infection than get a COVID vaccine. That would be safer and more effective. I have had a number of COVID positive flu cases this year. _Some _were old and had health concerns. Every single one has done really well with natural therapies including *ozone therapy and IV vitamin C*. Just because modern medicine has no effective treatment for viral infections, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.


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## Violator




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## JayKay PE

So I might be getting the vaccine sooner rather than later, since I work in a hospital.  I am going away for vacation, so it'll prob be in January when I can be present for the second dose in two weeks.  Have to listen to the town hall first, that is happening later today.  Tbh, I don't think I'll have a bad reaction to it, except maybe the injection area will hurt more than a regular flu shot?  I've been trying to be safe, but even if/when I get the vaccine, I'm going to wear a face mask for a long time.

Indiana...is not doing very well.


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## Supe




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## Road Guy

Are they doing the entire hospital?  Some of the people where the wife work are a little peaved(sp?) that the first round they are only offering to ICU / ER / PACU Staff and the other floors that dont directly 100% know they deal with covid on a daily basis are being bumped to the 2nd round.  (For example GI Lab or something)

But they dont really care that the staff get the vaccine for their personal safety, they just dont want them to miss work - :true:


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## JayKay PE

I think the email from our director says that our vaccine allotment is arriving before the end of December.  They anticipate adequate supply to vaccinate all employees who want to receive it (they did do a survey a week or two ago asking if you wanted to receive it or not).  I'm not sure if it's because we're a federal facility with Veterans (who tick every box of people who are super susceptible to covid), with non-remote work, or if it's a triage situation where they're trying to control some of a hot zone (Indiana...is not handling this well, and our VAMC is one of the bigger ones that services people in the smaller towns).  For us, I think we're getting the opportunity to get the vaccine more of a 'protect the veterans' than protecting us.


----------



## Road Guy

I think that’s it - your protecting the Vets (customers) which is cool.

I did sort of think they should just do all full time staff at hospitals (who want it) because it’s really the same principle.

I just hope this is the beginning of the end.


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> I just hope this is the beginning of the end.


It should be. That's why it's so important to push back against vaccine misinformation now. We need to get enough people vaccinated that the virus stops circulating, so we can protect those who can't get the vaccination, for whatever reason. That's what true "herd immunity" means. We all have to do our part.


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## Road Guy

[SIZE= 12px]Grandpa Joe didn’t trust the streamlined process a few months ago... but us Americans are a fickle bunch....[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12.00px]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html[/SIZE]


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> Grandpa Joe didn’t trust the streamlined process a few months ago... but us Americans are a fickle bunch....
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html


I didn't read that like that. He said he didn't trust Trump or a politicized development program. But he trusts scientists. 

Seems like a pretty reasonable position.


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## Dothracki PE

Also why "Grandpa Joe"? Donald Trump is also a grandfather with at least 10 grandchildren and is only a few years younger. Nobody goes around calling him Grandpa Donald.


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## Road Guy

[SIZE= 12px]He was responding to the (truthful) claim that a vaccine would be available by end of year.[/SIZE]

[SIZE= 12px]You have to push the scientist - I think it was Alan Shepard that said if you had let the scientists make all the decisions NASA would have never gotten the first rocket off the ground.[/SIZE]

[SIZE= 12px]I think the vaccine was the only real play available and that  “norms”  were pushed was a good thing- lots and lots of people were involved (just not Joe)- [/SIZE]


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## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> He was responding to the (truthful) claim that a vaccine would be available by end of year.
> 
> You have to push the scientist - I think it was Alan Shepard that said if you had let the scientists make all the decisions NASA would have never gotten the first rocket off the ground.
> 
> I think the vaccine was the only real play available and that  “norms”  were pushed was a good thing- lots and lots of people were involved (just not Joe)-


There were also scientists in medieval times who thought the sun revolved around the earth, Galileo (might have been Da Vinci)  was mocked for saying the earth went around sun,  but he proved it was true.


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## Road Guy

I deal with very conservative geotech and structural engineers all the time and have to push them a litlte out of their comfort zone to try and find the limits of what can really be done -

I dont see it much different than dealing with a "scientist" in this situation.  Surely there has to be a way we can speed this up given the circumstances?  Glad someone pushed is all.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Road Guy said:


> I deal with very conservative geotech and structural engineers all the time and have to push them a litlte out of their comfort zone to try and find the limits of what can really be done -
> 
> I dont see it much different than dealing with a "scientist" in this situation.  Surely there has to be a way we can speed this up given the circumstances?  Glad someone pushed is all.


I am glad it got pushed too. Whatever it takes to not have wear a mask anymore.

A primary focus of my job is corrosion control, so I get a lot of grief because I usually point worst case scenario. People unwilling to try new approaches.


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## Violator




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## Platypus Engineer

Apparently poster is well known chef. And on the right side person seated in red shirt appears to be talking to person standing in blue shirt. Not 6 ft apart, without masks.


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## bwin12

Platypus Engineer said:


> There were also scientists in medieval times who thought the sun revolved around the earth, Galileo (might have been Da Vinci)  was mocked for saying the earth went around sun,  but he proved it was true.


Wasn't the theory that the sun revolved around the earth more based on religion? And Galileo/Da Vinci were the scientists that proved the Gods incorrect, hence the mocking?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

bwin12 said:


> Wasn't the theory that the sun revolved around the earth more based on religion? And Galileo/Da Vinci were the scientists that proved the Gods incorrect, hence the mocking?


I believe so and yes. But I dont have a Sheldon Cooper level memory of physics.

Plus one of my high school physics classes was spent discussing why Wayne Gretzky was a wuss


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> I deal with very conservative geotech and structural engineers all the time and have to push them a litlte out of their comfort zone to try and find the limits of what can really be done -
> 
> I dont see it much different than dealing with a "scientist" in this situation.  Surely there has to be a way we can speed this up given the circumstances?  Glad someone pushed is all.


Agreed. But it's not just scientists. Everyone is like that. There has to be a push. That's mostly what I have been doing for the past 9 months, just pushing people from all disciplines to stop planning and start acting, on all manner of response related tasks even at the smallest scale. Often the best way to push people is to start doing it themselves, and then they seem to jump in and take over from you.


----------



## bwin12

Platypus Engineer said:


> Apparently poster is well known chef. And on the right side person seated in red shirt appears to be talking to person standing in blue shirt. Not 6 ft apart, without masks.


There's a coffee shop but my house that opened the "Erie Business Center". The way I understand it is you buy a membership for $5/month, you get access to comfy chairs, a bathroom and free wifi. Basically, because it is the EBC is no longer a "coffee shop" they have efficiently become "not a restaurant". Its quite a story around town (Facebook). Also, the place is usually really busy...


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## Dleg




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## Dothracki PE

https://kstp.com/news/city-gets-public-backlash-for-spending-federal-covid-relief-money-on-golf-course-clubhouse-december-9-2020/5947264/?cat=5


----------



## Platypus Engineer

https://www.newsmax.com/us/pfizer-vaccinations-manufacturing-negotiations/2020/12/16/id/1001932/

According to link, extra vaccine doses were not ordered because they were unsure how it would work.

*It is called a contingency clause, people. *


----------



## csb

Dothracki said:


> https://kstp.com/news/city-gets-public-backlash-for-spending-federal-covid-relief-money-on-golf-course-clubhouse-december-9-2020/5947264/?cat=5


The amount of money the federal government flung out there for stuff like this was huge. The timelines were tight. It was like a much less well executed version of TIGR funds and those weren't great either.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> The amount of money the federal government flung out there for stuff like this was huge. The timelines were tight. It was like a much less well executed version of TIGR funds and those weren't great either.


Nearly every day there is story of fraud, people buying luxury cars/jewelry. But people sent FEMA money after Hurricane Katrina in casinos and strip clubs.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Platypus Engineer said:


> Nearly every day there is story of fraud, people buying luxury cars/jewelry. But people sent FEMA money after Hurricane Katrina in casinos and strip clubs.


While that's true, I do feel like there's a big difference between individuals using federal aid for frivolous purposes vs governments and public servants using federal money for frivolous purposes.


----------



## bwin12

bwin12 said:


> There's a coffee shop but my house that opened the "Erie Business Center". The way I understand it is you buy a membership for $5/month, you get access to comfy chairs, a bathroom and free wifi. Basically, because it is the EBC is no longer a "coffee shop" they have efficiently become "not a restaurant". Its quite a story around town (Facebook). Also, the place is usually really busy...


Update: EBC has been shutdown. Coffee is still being served, but the seating area has been roped off/wrapped up with caution tape. 

I really thought it was an ingenious idea. Apparently, someone else didn't.


----------



## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## jeb6294

Dleg said:


> View attachment 20234


But we know what’s in the McRib...it’s minced snouts and hooves pressed into a vaguely rib shaped patty that’s slathered in really bad BBQ sauce so people can’t see how gross it looks.


----------



## Road Guy

great now I am hungry...


----------



## Dothracki PE




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## Dleg




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## Violator




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## kevo_55

LOL! Asshole protein!


----------



## Road Guy

another version..


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## Platypus Engineer

Violator said:


> View attachment 20273


Given their recent work, I will take microchip.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/coronavirus-goal-posts-must-not-be-allowed-to-shift-again

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/government-officials-have-no-one-but-themselves-to-blame-for-recent-covid-19-spike

Heard a new song by Van Morrison called "As i walked Out" the other day. About pandemic, it is good.


----------



## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Road Guy

I still like this one


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## Platypus Engineer




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## Dleg




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## Violator




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Violator




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## Dleg




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## Platypus Engineer

Image is linked in article below comparing 17 counties in eastern Tennessee, 8 with mask mandate, 9 without. Infection rate different by a tenth of a percent.

https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/12/28/this-data-for-masked-vs-unmasked-counties-would-be-on-every-front-page-if-it-sho-n2582176


----------



## csb

1. Did the mask mandate come after widespread infection? 

2. Is the mask mandate enforced? 

3. Is the population density different between the various counties?


----------



## bwin12

csb said:


> 1. Did the mask mandate come after widespread infection?
> 
> 2. Is the mask mandate enforced?
> 
> 3. Is the population density different between the various counties?


4. Does the non-mandated counties wear masks even without the mandate?


----------



## Platypus Engineer

csb said:


> 1. Did the mask mandate come after widespread infection?
> 
> 2. Is the mask mandate enforced?
> 
> 3. Is the population density different between the various counties?


Well I assume Knox includes Knoxville which is a college town, so a lot of people living close together. One may include Bristol which is on VA border and has the intersection of two interstates so a lot of commercial traffic in it.


----------



## Road Guy

5. If people wear a mask out at the store but then continue to visit friends and family.


----------



## csb

Road Guy said:


> 5. If people wear a mask out at the store but then continue to visit friends and family.


Oh, lots of this as well.


----------



## Dleg

I honestly don't understand people. 

1. The basic principle behind wearing a mask is simple: to catch droplets/microdroplets/aerosols from your mouth and nose, and thereby protect others (not yourself). It makes intuitive sense. About as much intuitive sense as anything. 

2. Wearing a mask is easy.

I really don't get the resistance to stepping up and doing something yourself to prevent infection in others. I know a lot of it is driven by politics and social media, which has convinced a lot of people that wearing a mask is an infringement on their liberties, or the first step of the government taking over your lives, or that a mask doesn't protect you from anything (no one ever said it does.) 

I'm just continually amazed at the general stupidity of people.


----------



## envirotex

I think someone has posted this here before but the third panel is really the closest to reality.  Plus it's on the level that most of the anti-mask people can understand. 







It's just rude not to wear a mask right now.  The same as it is not to sneeze or cough into your sleeve when we're not in a pandemic.


----------



## Dleg

The level of selfishness that is developing in this country recently puts the 1970s "Me Generation" / Baby Boomers to shame.


----------



## Road Guy

So what’s worse

- people who refuse to wear a mask at all.

- people (Looking at you LA) who wear their masks while driving their Tesla to Whole Foods but then have grandma and aunt Bessie over for dinner 3X a week?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Road Guy said:


> So what’s worse
> 
> - people who refuse to wear a mask at all.
> 
> - people (Looking at you LA) who wear their masks while driving their Tesla to Whole Foods but then have grandma and aunt Bessie over for dinner 3X a week?


----------



## Dleg

Road Guy said:


> So what’s worse
> 
> - people who refuse to wear a mask at all.
> 
> - people (Looking at you LA) who wear their masks while driving their Tesla to Whole Foods but then have grandma and aunt Bessie over for dinner 3X a week?


----------



## Dleg




----------



## csb

Dleg said:


> View attachment 20412


Oh my gosh. This is every person over 60 at Albertsons.


----------



## Dleg

COVID took Mary Anne! 

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/gilligans-islands-star-dawn-wells-dies-of-covid-19-at-82/


----------



## P-E

Dleg said:


> COVID took Mary Anne!
> 
> https://ktla.com/news/local-news/gilligans-islands-star-dawn-wells-dies-of-covid-19-at-82/


At least Ginger is still alive.


----------



## Dleg

Best quote I saw today, "she should have listened to the Professor, not the Millionaire"


----------



## Dleg

P-E said:


> At least Ginger is still alive.


----------



## P-E

Dleg said:


>


I doubt I’ll look any better at 86.


----------



## Dleg

I just want to look like I'm still alive.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

Dleg said:


>


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Signed up for the vaccine.  Going in tomorrow morning.

Here's hoping I grow a tail or something.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> Signed up for the vaccine.  Going in tomorrow morning.
> 
> Here's hoping I grow a tail or something.


A tail would mean a new place for ink. #ijs


----------



## JayKay PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> A tail would mean a new place for ink. #ijs


This...is very true.  I didn't get anything done last year, but if I grow a tail, I could potentially get some new art.  I really do want to try and get another piece sometime in 2021, but I want to aggressively pay down some debt to try and be totally debt-free before the end of 2021.  It's...doable, I think.


----------



## jeb6294

I wondered what was going to happen when all those people who were just happy to have bigger paychecks the last couple months of 2020 were going to do when their first few months on 2021 were suddenly a lot lower.

Everyone was sooo happy because they quit taking SS tax from paychecks, but nobody looked at the fine print saying it was only *deferred* and that they would be doubling down to recoup starting the first of the year.

Just got an email saying that they're going to spread it out over the whole year rather than Jan. thru Apr.


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> I wondered what was going to happen when all those people who were just happy to have bigger paychecks the last couple months of 2020 were going to do when their first few months on 2021 were suddenly a lot lower.
> 
> Everyone was sooo happy because they quit taking SS tax from paychecks, but nobody looked at the fine print saying it was only *deferred* and that they would be doubling down to recoup starting the first of the year.
> 
> Just got an email saying that they're going to spread it out over the whole year rather than Jan. thru Apr.


Yeah, I saw that.  I've been socking away what my previous OASDI was per paycheck, pretty much just keeping the same paycheck I had previously.  I do like that it has been spread over the whole year, and that they're going to have a collection amount remaining on each paycheck, but I wish there was just a way to pay it back directly if you have the funds.  I just don't want to deal with a corrected W-2 (I have no idea what I need to do with that).

My first paycheck is gonna be super wonky because I got different insurance, I upped some 401k stuff, changed my HSA amount, and now the OASDI is getting put back in.  Can't wait until Wednesday to see the damage before it hits my account.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> I wondered what was going to happen when all those people who were just happy to have bigger paychecks the last couple months of 2020 were going to do when their first few months on 2021 were suddenly a lot lower.
> 
> Everyone was sooo happy because they quit taking SS tax from paychecks, but nobody looked at the fine print saying it was only *deferred* and that they would be doubling down to recoup starting the first of the year.
> 
> Just got an email saying that they're going to spread it out over the whole year rather than Jan. thru Apr.


Really? I thought the fact that the tax was deferred was pretty well publicized. I'm curious was percentage of companies chose to participate? The cons of deferring the tax seemed to pretty clearly outweigh the pros in my opinion. (My company did not participate; I'm glad.)


----------



## jeb6294

TBH, my guess is that they figured everybody would be happy to have a bigger paycheck and then when the doo doo hot the fan at the first of the year people would be getting their stimulus checks to offset the difference.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

jean15paul_PE said:


> Really? I thought the fact that the tax was deferred was pretty well publicized. I'm curious was percentage of companies chose to participate? The cons of deferring the tax seemed to pretty clearly outweigh the pros in my opinion. (My company did not participate; I'm glad.)


If my memory serves me right, I think my company gave us the option to participate if we so please.  I did not personally, as I agree the cons outweighed the pros.

It was well publicized but you're also banking on the knowledge of the masses.  Who actual read what the deal was (deferred tax) vs. who heard NO TAXES SHUTTUP AND (DON'T) TAKE MY MONEY. Probably the same people who simply read the clickbait media article headlines and look at the pretty pictures without actually taking the time to read the article itself...


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Oh. I did not realize that it could be an individual decision. I thought it had to be company wide. I trust company HR departments to be better informed than the average Joe. I absolutely see how an individual could be uninformed and/or make a bad decision.


----------



## jeb6294

Maybe it's just because I work for the Gub-mint. I'd imagine they sent out an email about it, but it probably got lost in all the other nonsense emails that show up on a daily basis and go straight to the trash bin. Regardless of any email I may have gotten, I'd already heard about it but didn't much thought into it until my first check showed up that was a few hundred bigger.


----------



## csb

My company didn't participate AND doubled down with furlough days so my check was smaller.


----------



## JayKay PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Really? I thought the fact that the tax was deferred was pretty well publicized. I'm curious was percentage of companies chose to participate? The cons of deferring the tax seemed to pretty clearly outweigh the pros in my opinion. (My company did not participate; I'm glad.)


From what I've heard, a majority of companies did NOT participate.  Since there was the potential loss of funds if the employee left (which means the company might be on the hook to repay the taxes if the employee doesn't pay them), a lot of companies left well enough alone and didn't change anything.  

Unfortunately, the entirety of the federal employment were deferred unless you made over $4k a pay period (I think?).  So.  I think something like 60% of all federal employees were forced into this.  And we weren't allowed to opt out.  Because Trump didn't want us to/ordered OPM to do it.


----------



## jeb6294

I'll admit, it was nice getting a little extra $$$ right there around Christmas time.

Another nice thing will be getting all of my local taxes back. Since I work downtown they take out Cincinnati city taxes but you can file for a refund for days that you weren't actually working downtown. Our house isn't within city limits so that's usually just days off and travel days. With us working from home pretty much the whole year, I should be able to get all of it back. The Mayor has already been bitching about how bad COVID has been for the city, but between people working from home or not working at all, I can't imagine what kind of shit fit he'll have when their income taxes go down the toilet.


----------



## JayKay PE

Okay.  Got my first vaccination earlier today. 

...

Still have not grown a tail. 

Disappointing.


----------



## csb

JayKay PE said:


> Okay.  Got my first vaccination earlier today.
> 
> ...
> 
> Still have not grown a tail.
> 
> Disappointing.


(flips over desk) THIS IS BULLSHIT.

But how's your cell phone signal?


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

JayKay PE said:


> Still have not grown a tail.


A flagellum would have been useful.


----------



## JayKay PE

csb said:


> (flips over desk) THIS IS BULLSHIT.
> 
> But how's your cell phone signal?


STRONGER THAN EVER. I mean, it’s amazing. My phone runs so fast now. Almost like something is boosting it somehow. If only I could figure out why it’s suddenly working so well after this shot.


----------



## Dothracki PE

JayKay PE said:


> STRONGER THAN EVER. I mean, it’s amazing. My phone runs so fast now. Almost like something is boosting it somehow. If only I could figure out why it’s suddenly working so well after this shot.


The proteins created by the mRNA message must boost cell phone signals.


----------



## kevo_55

Or maybe JK just got one of those chips in the shot.


----------



## Violator

We live in an older part of Tampa and most of my neighbors are 70. They all claim to be on the “list”?

As in they claim to be listed by name on a vaccine list. Is there an actual list or have they just gone crazy?


----------



## Dleg

Totally depends on your state and local government. CDC provided guidelines for vaccination priorities, but those can and have been modified locally everywhere.

Where I am, they started with people 75 and over after they finished HCWs and first responders/front line public health people. For the first several days the 75 year olds were supposed to register ahead of time and get on a "list", but then they opened it up for more of a free for all because they weren't giving the vaccines out fast enough.  I predict that everywhere in the US will see the published priority lists and plans change a LOT over the next couple of months as the backlog builds.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dothracki PE

Man threatened Maplewood gym manager with gun over members not wearing masks, charges say


Michael Marland Florhaug went to the fitness center to personally monitor if members were following the state’s mask mandate, the criminal complaint said. Florhaug is not a member of the gym. Under Gov. Tim Walz’s executive order, fitness centers were able to reopen on Dec. 19 at 25 percent capacity and members were required to wear masks.
 
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/crime-and-courts/6827219-Man-threatened-Maplewood-gym-manager-with-gun-over-members-not-wearing-masks-charges-say


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dleg

Moderna is saying their vaccine (and by extension, Pfizer's) should provide immunity for at least 2 years, and is effective against both the UK and South African variants.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-vaccine-idUSKBN29C0YK?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&amp;utm_medium=trueAnthem&amp;utm_source=facebook


----------



## Dleg

IN more good news, at least one study has confirmed that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work against the UK and South African variants:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-pfizer-vaccine/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-appears-effective-against-mutation-in-new-coronavirus-variants-study-idUSKBN29D0DX


----------



## JayKay PE

Day 3 Post-Vaccine Shot #1

Still have not grown a tail.  Did take off from work yesterday, but not sure if due to crappy sleep schedule I maintained while on leave, working out super hard on Monday and Tuesday (when I got my vaccine shot), or due to actual vaccine.

Will keep monitoring.  Cell phone signal has been amazing.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

JayKay PE said:


> Day 3 Post-Vaccine Shot #1
> 
> Still have not grown a tail.  Did take off from work yesterday, but not sure if due to crappy sleep schedule I maintained while on leave, working out super hard on Monday and Tuesday (when I got my vaccine shot), or due to actual vaccine.
> 
> Will keep monitoring.  Cell phone signal has been amazing.


Any signs of glowing in the dark? Perhaps superhuman strength especially when angry?


----------



## JayKay PE

NJHHEngineer said:


> Any signs of glowing in the dark? Perhaps superhuman strength especially when angry?


I mean, I've been really thirsty recently?  But that might just be leftover dehydration from heavy holiday drinking...


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.




----------



## Dleg

I get my 2nd dose in 3 days. Several of my colleagues who gave already gotten the 2nd dose had much more pronounced symptoms that with the first. Fevers, headaches, chills, body aches, nausea. Supposed to be a good sign that the vaccine is very effective, but I'm not really looking forward to that now... and clearing my schedule the following day in case it wipes me out.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## JayKay PE

Dleg said:


> I get my 2nd dose in 3 days. Several of my colleagues who gave already gotten the 2nd dose had much more pronounced symptoms that with the first. Fevers, headaches, chills, body aches, nausea. Supposed to be a good sign that the vaccine is very effective, but I'm not really looking forward to that now... and clearing my schedule the following day in case it wipes me out.


This is what I've heard as well.  We received guidance that the second dose will most likely have more pronounced affects and that we're allowed to have two days off following the second dose, if we don't feel well/go home the day of the shot.  I super hope I don't have pronounced symptoms since I actually have a ton of shit to get done and being out for a day destroys everything.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

JayKay PE said:


> Okay. Got my first vaccination earlier today.
> 
> ...
> 
> Still have not grown a tail.
> 
> Disappointing.


My brother that is firefighter received his first dose other day. Had fever arm soreness very tired. He said those side effects are indication of being previous;y exposed to virus


----------



## snickerd3

Platypus Engineer said:


> My brother that is firefighter received his first dose other day. Had fever arm soreness very tired. He said those side effects are indication of being previous;y exposed to virus


makes sense.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont know, everyone I know that has had the vaccine have had those feelings.
The 2nd dose kicked the wifes ass for sure!


----------



## Dleg

Yeah I don't think that's true, at least not according to the knowledgeable folks I have been working with lately.

I got my second dose yesterday. I actually feel better than I did after the first dose, with only a little arm pain. First dose had more pronounced arm pain and a little fatigue, for me. Data from the phase 3 trials shows that only about 25% of people have side effects like fever, body aches. Arm soreness for almost everyone. But I did a straw poll among people I know who got their second doses and it was right around the 25% number for fever. I thought it was higher based on my Facebook feed, but that's because the only people posting were the ones who had side effects (aka selection bias!)


----------



## JayKay PE

Dleg said:


> Yeah I don't think that's true, at least not according to the knowledgeable folks I have been working with lately.
> 
> I got my second dose yesterday. I actually feel better than I did after the first dose, with only a little arm pain. First dose had more pronounced arm pain and a little fatigue, for me. Data from the phase 3 trials shows that only about 25% of people have side effects like fever, body aches. Arm soreness for almost everyone. But I did a straw poll among people I know who got their second doses and it was right around the 25% number for fever. I thought it was higher based on my Facebook feed, but that's because the only people posting were the ones who had side effects (aka selection bias!)


Can I ask which dose you got, Pfizer or Moderna? A lot of the stuff I'm hearing about Moderna (the one I'm taking/will get the second dose) say that the first dose isn't that bad, and it really wasn't for me. Like, my arms were sore, I had bench pressed heavily the day before my dose like an idiot, but I didn't really feel any pronounced soreness in that area.


----------



## Dleg

I got the Pfizer vaccine. And I spoke too soon. I developed (mild) body aches last night, over 24 hours after the shot. A couple other people I know also developed side effects yesterday evening. One person I know claimed she felt fine, but as I watched she checked her temperature and it was 101, she just didn't feel it. But now I feel fine again, aside from lingering pain at the injection site.

And the two should really be the same - Pfizer and Moderna - because they use the same mechanism.


----------



## Road Guy

yeah my cohabitant got hers at the end of a 13 hour work day, then got up at 6:30 am and went to crossfit (which was probably a mistake) and then spent from lunch that day until the next on the sofa under electirc blankets regretting all 3 decisions and felt bad for a good 2 days

she is reciving offers to go to LA for *crazy* money but I told her likely no one from California would ever offer to help her so take a hard pass


----------



## Dothracki PE

Really? This makes me mad. I'm traveling to work everyday, exposing myself to thousands of people, and we are going to prioritize smokers to get the vaccine? Smoking is not a medical defect, it's their own choice that they smoke.









‘Cheap shot’ criticism of COVID vaccines for 2M smokers before other groups is ‘false narrative,’ Murphy says


“I get it. I understand the optics here and that attacking folks who took up the habit of smoking and who are now addicted may be politically expedient,” Murphy said.




www.nj.com


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dothracki PE said:


> Really? This makes me mad. I'm traveling to work everyday, exposing myself to thousands of people, and we are going to prioritize smokers to get the vaccine? Smoking is not a medical defect, it's their own choice that they smoke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Cheap shot’ criticism of COVID vaccines for 2M smokers before other groups is ‘false narrative,’ Murphy says
> 
> 
> “I get it. I understand the optics here and that attacking folks who took up the habit of smoking and who are now addicted may be politically expedient,” Murphy said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nj.com


Yes and no. I've heard of research has shown that there's often a physiological component to addiction. Basically some people are more prone to addiction because they are born with differences in their brains. 

Now I don't say that to remove any component of personal accountability and that's definitely not true in all cases. Just pointing out that it's more complicated than it appears.

Also if we want "herd immunity" than we need as many people vaccinated as possible.


----------



## Dleg

And don't forget that this early in the process, one of the major goals is to reduce the number of people taking up hospital beds (and I don't actually know if smokers are more likely to be hospitalized, but that's probably the case at least for long time smokers).

Every smoker vaccinated means one potential hospital bed freed up for heart attacks, accidents, strokes etc.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Dleg said:


> And don't forget that this early in the process, one of the major goals is to reduce the number of people taking up hospital beds (and I don't actually know if smokers are more likely to be hospitalized, but that's probably the case at least for long time smokers).
> 
> Every smoker vaccinated means one potential hospital bed freed up for heart attacks, accidents, strokes etc.


That makes sense if you think of it that way that the priority is really still healthcare in that we want to protect healthcare workers and reduce the amount of people in the hospital.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

Dothracki PE said:


> That makes sense if you think of it that way that the priority is really still healthcare in that we want to protect healthcare workers and reduce the amount of people in the hospital.


I'm surprised teachers aren't on the list, with all the dissent toward Virtual Learning and the "Kids need to be back in school" talk. I know some schools are still doing in-person learning. To me, the teachers should be a priority...they spend all day in a classroom of say 15 students (adjusted for social distancing) a few days a week, yet other gatherings are limited to X number of people. I'd think the classroom would be considered a risk? I can't keep up with the "COVID logic" any more. It seems so made up and contradictory....


----------



## Dleg

There is actually logic behind the vaccination priorities, at least at the federal level and most states that I am familiar with. The goals as I mentioned at this early point is to take the pressure off the health care workers, first by vaccinating them and then by vaccinating the people most likely to end up taking up hospital beds.

The illogic comes into play with teaching, restaurants, and other activities that public and political pressure comes to bear on. From a pure public health perspective, school shouldn't be in session during a time of high transmission of disease. Restaurants and bars are about the highest risks for transmission (indoors, poor ventilation, people laughing and talking). But state and local politicians are under intense pressure to open them up so they push the public health people to do so and you end up with contradictions and situations that don't make much sense.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

From what I've read the data shows that some things that were expected to be places of high transmission turned out to be very low. Gyms and school between 4th and 12th grade have much lower transmission rates than were expected.

Epidemiologists and infectious disease experts will be studying this outbreak for decades!


----------



## snickerd3

We are in person learning 5 days a week. The majority of the school cases reports are at the middle and high schools. There have only been a handful in 3rd-5th grades. No students in the pre-k to 2nd, just a couple staff early on. quarantines however are happening like crazy. The kids has a fever and all the kids in the family are sent home to quarantine for 14 days unless you get a dr to sign off that it is not covid related.


----------



## JayKay PE

So. Random side affect today: Exactly two weeks after getting my first round shot, that area got super super itchy and welted up for a solid half hour and then went away. Office co-worker said the same thing happened to him (8 days later). Sus.


----------



## wilheldp_PE

JayKay PE said:


> So. Random side affect today: Exactly two weeks after getting my first round shot, that area got super super itchy and welted up for a solid half hour and then went away. Office co-worker said the same thing happened to him (8 days later). Sus.


That's what happens when Bill Gates activates your microchip.


----------



## Dleg

I didn't have that side effect. I am now at +8 days from my second vaccination, so in theory I am now 95% immune (that's probably not correct - the epidemiological way to state it is likely "I now have a 95% chance of not developing symptomatic COVID-19 if I get exposed")

However, for the last week I have felt pretty wiped out. I've crapped out early on runs and walking. Felt generally tired. I feel like that is going away now, though. I suppose that this new technology makes the immune response much stronger, so that is expected? And that because of the strong immune response, maybe this is why the mRNA vaccines are 95% effective vs. 50% for the traditional method used by China in their Sinovac?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

JayKay PE said:


> So. Random side affect today: Exactly two weeks after getting my first round shot, that area got super super itchy and welted up for a solid half hour and then went away. Office co-worker said the same thing happened to him (8 days later). Sus.


Probably a lot of people around you were using 5G


----------



## kevo_55

Maybe the tail will grow from the shot area.


----------



## JayKay PE

kevo_55 said:


> Maybe the tail will grow from the shot area.


*eyes tail growing out of upper arm that is gently stroking my hair*


----------



## Dleg

Haha


----------



## snickerd3

^That's my biggest concern about going into the office. There is a group of people working at the office daily that are like that while in the office and apparently non-maskers out and about town.


----------



## Dothracki PE

snickerd3 said:


> ^That's my biggest concern about going into the office. There is a group of people working at the office daily that are like that while in the office and apparently non-maskers out and about town.


Yea I watched a train conductor exit a train at the station yesterday and lower his mask to shout where the train was going. There were several people standing right in front of him trying to get on the train.


----------



## Dleg

Well look at it this way: those people are the most likely to have been infected already. So once we get past this 3rd wave, maybe they aren't as much of a threat anymore?

(I kid, but there is some truth to that. The problem is you can't count on it and those people are also the most likely to infect YOU)


----------



## snickerd3

we technically only have to wear a mask when we leave our cube, but when I do go in for a couple hours, I leave my mask on the whole time. if they start making us go back, I will likely invest in the better masks.


----------



## Supe

snickerd3 said:


> we technically only have to wear a mask when we leave our cube, but when I do go in for a couple hours, I leave my mask on the whole time. if they start making us go back, I will likely invest in the better masks.


Pretty much everyone in our company requested they raise the cube walls from the bullshit shoulder height ones to the normal height ones, since they were doing renovations anyways. They didn't. So, anyone who goes in will effectively be face to face with a coworker for 8-10 hours.


----------



## snickerd3

Supe said:


> Pretty much everyone in our company requested they raise the cube walls from the bullshit shoulder height ones to the normal height ones, since they were doing renovations anyways. They didn't. So, anyone who goes in will effectively be face to face with a coworker for 8-10 hours.


we have the short 5ft walls. The tall walls are for supervisors only. When at the office one side is to a busy hallway...I would LOVE to have a tall wall for just that one side to block out the people walking past. It was very distracting.


----------



## Supe

Our office had normal walls, but the building we're consolidating in is all short. They're not even 5 feet, they're shoulder height when seated. With only 1/3 of the office populated, the place sounded like a call center. It was awful.


----------



## snickerd3

Supe said:


> Our office had normal walls, but the building we're consolidating in is all short. They're not even 5 feet, they're shoulder height when seated. With only 1/3 of the office populated, the place sounded like a call center. It was awful.


what's the point then? defined personal space?


----------



## Dothracki PE

snickerd3 said:


> what's the point then? defined personal space?


Ours are also pretty much shoulder height when sitting. The owner said it was to "promote collaboration". My money is on the money. I am sure you pay for every inch of partition height so to take off two feet from the standard gets some savings.


----------



## pbrme

Back in 2016, my company decided to buy a building and renovate for our new offices (ESOP, looks better to own than rent). Doing so we went from all single story to ground level w/ basement. The mechanical, civil and electrical groups are all in the basement with offices, conference, break, RR's and storage/mech space around the perimeter, w/ 20 cubes in the middle. They chose to go with an "open" cube feel and settled on 4' tall cube walls since our basement floor to ceiling is only 8'. I fortunately have one of the 7 offices. My guess for why anyone would want cube walls shorter than 4' is so that management can see if you're playing tetris?

They sent roughly half the office home to work remotely last March and around Sept. most of us have migrated back as WA started moving into subsequent phase re-openings. They ended up installing 2' tall plexiglass extensions to all of the cubes and dividers to the people who share double cubes. We wear masks when away from our offices/cube and use hand sanitizer after everything we touch. The only restricted access is the water fountains.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

pbrme said:


> .... My guess for why anyone would want cube walls shorter than 4' is so that management can see if you're playing tetris?
> 
> ...


You should tell management that Tetris promotes engineering skills development. How else will you learn to fit everything into that electrical panel, or into that gearbox, or that building layout?

To be honest, I'm skeptical of any engineer who doesn't play Tetris.


----------



## Supe

snickerd3 said:


> what's the point then? defined personal space?


Dothraki got it. It's all nonsense to cover the fact that your screen is visible to everybody, making it easier for management to see what you're doing.


----------



## Dothracki PE

South Carolina detects first US cases of coronavirus strain first seen in South Africa | CNN


South Carolina officials have announced the United States' first two confirmed cases of a more contagious coronavirus strain first spotted in South Africa.




www.cnn.com


----------



## Dleg

^Not only more contagious, but also less affected by antibodies. Apparently convalescent plasma doesn't work against this variant, but the antibodies produced by vaccine response seem to respond, but not to the same degree as for the previous variants. From what I have heard, the experts seem to think the vaccine will still be effective, just maybe less so (like, you might get sick but hopefully not severely). It takes time to get a definitive handle on all of that, though, so I'm not getting worked up about it yet.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Dothracki PE

Covid travel restrictions: Canada suspends flights to Caribbean and Mexico


Canada will also mandate new testing and three-day hotel quarantine periods for travellers.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Got on vaccine wait list


----------



## JayKay PE

Second shot knocked me on my ass. Super bad chills and nausea and the injection site is way more tender/larger radius. I’m currently in my bed under blankets with the heat up and curtains drawn.


----------



## JayKay PE

Just had a bowl of soup to try and eat something. Body immediately reacted and I’m now sweating/boiling. Guess oyster crackers and water from now on.


----------



## snickerd3

I guess it is a good and bad thing. Snickette is obviously washing her hands a lot (a good thing), but she has developed a rash on her hands from the overwashing. Need to find a mini lotion bottle to send with her to school to use after washing her hands so it doesn't get really bad. Or the school changed soaps.


----------



## snickerd3

JayKay PE said:


> Just had a bowl of soup to try and eat something. Body immediately reacted and I’m now sweating/boiling. Guess oyster crackers and water from now on.


hope you feel better soon!


----------



## leggo PE

snickerd3 said:


> I guess it is a good and bad thing. Snickette is obviously washing her hands a lot (a good thing), but she has developed a rash on her hands from the overwashing. Need to find a mini lotion bottle to send with her to school to use after washing her hands so it doesn't get really bad. Or the school changed soaps.


The soap at my old company’s office did this to my hands. It was awful pink liquid soap. I know it was the soap, because the soap they had when I first started working there was not pink and did not do that. I used the Neutrogina Norwegian lotion to help.


----------



## snickerd3

We have that and tried it, but she hates the smell.


----------



## JayKay PE

@snickerd3, I hate neutrogena products. They actually cause me to break out now. The lotion I've found that works the best for me is lubriderm or aveeno (lubriderm I like a bit more since it doesn't leave a residue/I can use it on my whole body). If she has a rash, I'd do an old-fashioned vaseline smear overnight with gloves for a few days to reduce redness.

2-days post covid vaccine = I feel much better. I have a kinda sore throat on one side (maybe I slept weird) and the injection point itches a little, but it's not longer a huge red splotch that is hard and red and covers half of my upper arm.


----------



## leggo PE

So interesting! My nurse friend who got the second dose (Pfizer, I believe) just had a bit of a headache after getting it. For the record, she had a headache before getting the second dose, and got it in the middle of her shift, so had to work several hours afterwards. She had barely any reaction to either the first or the second dose! I guess there’s a huge spectrum of side effects.


----------



## engineergurl

leggo PE said:


> So interesting! My nurse friend who got the second dose (Pfizer, I believe) just had a bit of a headache after getting it. For the record, she had a headache before getting the second dose, and got it in the middle of her shift, so had to work several hours afterwards. She had barely any reaction to either the first or the second dose! I guess there’s a huge spectrum of side effects.



I believe if you've had the virus already you have a bigger reaction based on what I've heard. Pfizer also causes less reaction is the rumor as well.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Violator

Like wearing 2 masks?


----------



## Exengineer

Bill Gates is a software guru, he has no medical training or experience but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That makes him an expert on viruses, pandemics and vaccines.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Exengineer said:


> Bill Gates is a software guru, he has no medical training or experience but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That makes him an expert on viruses, pandemics and vaccines.


I know you're making a joke, but I do get really tired of this very bad argument.

Bill Gates has been the leader of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for much longer than he was a working software developer. He has more experience fighting infectious disease, from an administration and operation perspective, than almost anyone else on the planet. This is directly within his area of expertise.


----------



## aog

jean15paul_PE said:


> he was a working software developer





Exengineer said:


> That makes him an expert on viruses


shazam!


----------



## Dothracki PE

Thoughts?
Brooklyn Woman Fired From Job After Not Getting Vaccine Because She Wanted to Wait


----------



## Supe

I think the way they went about it was shitty, but I don't see how it's any different than places like hospitals where the staff are required to receive COVID/flu vaccines, etc.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

Supe said:


> I think the way they went about it was shitty, but I don't see how it's any different than places like hospitals where the staff are required to receive COVID/flu vaccines, etc.


Agreed. I wonder if she has their initial statement "Vaccine not mandatory" in writing. Wonder if she can throw that at them as a counter argument. Although, it said it right in the article - she wasn't against receiving it. She just was not sure whether it was safe/recommended due to her plan to try and get pregnant. If I'm her, screw those guys. Run the other way and find somewhere else (which, obviously in this time is a lot easier said than done).


----------



## jeb6294

Sounds to me like this issue could be opening a whole can of worms. Just some of the stuff that initially comes to mind:
-Not sure about other hospitals, but when I was at the VA, they *were not* allowed to make employees get the flu vaccine. Your choice was, get the flu shot or wear a mask during flu season.
-If wearing a mask works then why isn't that an alternative? If we "have" to get a vaccine, are they now telling us that masks don't work?
-It'll be interesting to see how the current "my body, my choice" Gov't goes about this. Are they going to say vaccines are mandatory?


----------



## snickerd3

Not any time soon, since everything is still in emergency use approval, Kids can't get them right now, effects on preg/nursing group is unknown, etc... until they are approved for full non-emergency use I don't see how they can "require" it. It will probably become part of the regular vaccination schedule for kids, and a shot required for travel like to certain countries now.


----------



## Road Guy

I dont think any (or many) hospitals are requiring the covid vaccine

only 60% of the people at the mrs hospital took the vaccine (all were offered)

But they do require the flu shot as a condition of employment


----------



## bwin12

There was a good article in the daily ENR email this morning. It was from the Monterey County Herald and referenced California law throughout. The article stated the biggest difference between C19 vaccine and all the others available/required for schools is the FDA has not explicitly approved it yet. They opined that there would be very few issues within industries like engineering. Healthcare, senior care and other public facing that can't work from home occupations were a whole another bag of works though. 

Definitely a shit way to do it on the restaurants part.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Lots of good info here. It answered many questions that I had.









Coronavirus Vaccines are Coming in the US: What Should US Employers Do Next?


In the somewhat-near future, US employers actually may be able to replace face coverings, social distancing markers, plexiglass barriers and Zoom…




www.lexology.com


----------



## Supe

I'm just glad Mrs. Supe is self employed, since she is not eligible to receive the vaccine.


----------



## jeb6294

bwin12 said:


> There was a good article in the daily ENR email this morning. It was from the Monterey County Herald and referenced California law throughout. The article stated the biggest difference between C19 vaccine and all the others available/required for schools is the FDA has not explicitly approved it yet. They opined that there would be very few issues within industries like engineering. Healthcare, senior care and other public facing that can't work from home occupations were a whole another bag of works though.
> 
> Definitely a shit way to do it on the restaurants part.


Yeah, you lost me at "...California law..."


----------



## Exengineer

Bill Gates - What you were not told


Bill Gates - What you were not told




ceflix.org





Bill Gates "unsealed"


----------



## Dleg

I don't think an employer can require the COVID-19 vaccines at this time, since they are under an emergency use authorization (EUA) which is not FDA "approval". That's what I have been told through my channels. However I have also been told that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are likely 100% to be fully approved at some point in the near future, after which any entity including employers, school districts and even governments can mandate vaccination, should they want to. The Supreme Court has already upheld the power of States to do this, see Jacobsen vs. Massachusetts. 

The hospitals where I am working are at about the 70-80% vaccination level now, all fully voluntary. It's over 90% at my place of employment.


----------



## Supe

I wonder if that's true of right to work states, though.


----------



## mudpuppy

Supe said:


> I wonder if that's true of right to work states, though.



Seems like states that discourage unions would be even more likely to let employers force whatever they want (like vaccines) on employees?


----------



## Supe

mudpuppy said:


> Seems like states that discourage unions would be even more likely to let employers force whatever they want (like vaccines) on employees?


That's what I was getting at, or is there some law/FDA crossover that would prevent them from doing that.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I'm not an expert, but from everything that I found online, it's completely legal to be fired for refusing the vaccine, unless you can prove that you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking it, or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs. The fact that's it's only approved under an EUA has no relevance.


----------



## pbrme

jean15paul_PE said:


> ...or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs.


So people that follow this guy ->

Can just go "Nope"??
Que the "have you or a loved one been the victim of job loss due to the vaccine mandate..." lawyer commercials.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

pbrme said:


> So people that follow this guy ->View attachment 21306
> 
> Can just go "Nope"??
> Que the "have you or a loved one been the victim of job loss due to the vaccine mandate..." lawyer commercials.


Surprised those havent started yet


----------



## Dleg

jean15paul_PE said:


> I'm not an expert, but from everything that I found online, it's completely legal to be fired for refusing the vaccine, unless you can prove that you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking it, or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs. The fact that's it's only approved under an EUA has no relevance.


I'm not an expert either. But I have heard through reliable channels that the EUA is the reason the military is not requiring it, and that they will require it once it receives full approval. If the military doesn't believe they can require it, I wonder how any other employer could.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dleg said:


> I'm not an expert either. But I have heard through reliable channels that the EUA is the reason the military is not requiring it, and that they will require it once it receives full approval. If the military doesn't believe they can require it, I wonder how any other employer could.


Is it that they can't require it? Or is it that they are choosing not to?
(Genuine question)


----------



## Dleg

Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth:


----------



## bwin12

Is the flu vaccine mandatory for occupations other than the military? Seems as though once the vaccine is approved by the FDA and not in EUA status, it will be of the same standard as the flu vaccine and therefore could be mandatory?


----------



## snickerd3

medical field in some places. Staff mandatory, volunteers flu shot or wear a mask.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Did some more digging. Lots of grey area and conflicting info. To my best interpretation:

Generally a vaccine released under an EUA can't be required.
But the Secretary of Health and Human Services has a lot of leeway in this area.
Also there's a concept call "direct threat"
If it can be proven that an unvaccinated employee poses a direct threat to others AND the threat can't be eliminated through other means, then that employee could legally be let go.
Each of the above bullets is linked to a different legal article where I found the info.


----------



## jeb6294

Not gonna lie, I'm not going to read all the articles, but based on your interpretations, seems to me a company could be in some trouble if they try to fire people for not getting the vaccine...then again, maybe not. Kind of goes back to the "does it" or "doesn't argument". If masks work so well like they've been preaching then how could you require someone to get the vaccine in order to keep from being fired if wearing a mask is a viable alternative? I'm guessing it's going to be a big mess that gets dragged out through the court system once the vaccine starts getting more widely distributed and people start getting fired for refusing and then suing their employers.

For the record, I'm sure I'm pretty far down on the list, but once I am eligible, I doubt it'll be terribly high on my to-do list. It's kind of like the flu shot when I was at the VA...if they tell me I have to get it then I will just because I don't care enough about it one way or the other.

On the other end of the spectrum, my wife is actively trying to figure out how she can get vaccinated. She left her travelling job and went back to the medical center in the Hamilton County Justice Center where she'd worked before, which not surprisingly, is way up there in risk of exposure. I guess in Ohio right now, they're basing it primarily on age and people who work in an actual hospital, because you know, only people who work in a hospital are really "health care workers".


----------



## bwin12

My inlaws are in Fairfield Township, and were able to get it just because they are old. My MIL works in the front part of a pediatricians office- I can't remember the details but it was a complete cluster f trying to get vaccines a month or so ago. I think my FIL got one at Walgreens, Or UDF. Not sure. 


jeb6294 said:


> On the other end of the spectrum, my wife is actively trying to figure out how she can get vaccinated. She left her travelling job and went back to the medical center in the Hamilton County Justice Center where she'd worked before, which not surprisingly, is way up there in risk of exposure. I guess in Ohio right now, they're basing it primarily on age and people who work in an actual hospital, because you know, only people who work in a hospital are really "health care workers


----------



## bwin12

jean15paul_PE said:


> If it can be proven that an unvaccinated employee poses a direct threat to others AND the threat can't be eliminated through other means, then that employee could legally be let go.



Really stupid question- if "others" is vaccinated, is the unvaccinated employee a threat?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

bwin12 said:


> Really stupid question- if "others" is vaccinated, is the unvaccinated employee a threat?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No idea. I'm guessing it comes down to what you can prove in court.

If everyone in your office is vaccinated except for you, it seems like you could argue that you're not a direct threat. On the other hand if you're a waitress serving customers, that's probably a harder argument to make since you can't know everyone's vaccine status.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jean15paul_PE said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> No idea. I'm guessing it comes down to what you can prove in court.
> 
> If everyone in your office is vaccinated except for you, it seems like you could argue that you're not a direct threat. On the other hand if you're a waitress serving customers, that's probably a harder argument to make since you can't know everyone's vaccine status.


My job (water/wastewater utility) isnt requiring vaccines, which I personally dont get, I figured people in field on regular basis would be required but doesn't appear to be case, Filled out a vaccine survey, I said anybody refusing vaccine should have to permanently telework, There are probably two people in my immediate work group who would refuse to get vaccinated, 

i plan on getting vaccine ASAP because I have an elderly parent and another family meber in poor health that I take to doctor and go to store for,


----------



## jeb6294

My theory is that they tell people to keep wearing the mask even after you get the vaccine is so people can't go around without masks and claim it's okay because they've already been vaccinated. I hope that's what it is anyway, because the alternative is that they don't really know if the vaccine actually works.


----------



## Dleg

Vaccination is about a lot more than just yourself. There are people everywhere who legitimately cannot be vaccinated, for various health reasons. The entire concept of herd immunity (the actual, defined concept not the news media and Facebook concept) is that if you get a large enough percentage of the population vaccinated, then the folks who can't get vaccinated are protected. So a school district, hospital, or any other general employer who requires vaccination is basically doing that so that they are creating an environment that is safe for everyone, including the handful of students, patients, or employees who are genuinely unable to get the vaccine.

Just a hypothetical, but let's say two people file a lawsuit against the same employer. One files a lawsuit saying that they should not be required to be vaccinated because the employer cannot control what happens to their body. Another files a lawsuit saying that because the employer does not require vaccination, the workplace has become hazardous because that employee cannot be vaccinated. I wonder which would win.

And no, masks do not provide nearly the same protection as a vaccination. I challenge you to show me where any actual public health authority (e.g., CDC) has ever published that. Masks are meant to slow transmission, but to nowhere near the same degree as mass vaccination.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## bwin12

jeb6294 said:


> My theory is that they tell people to keep wearing the mask even after you get the vaccine is so people can't go around without masks and claim it's okay because they've already been vaccinated. I hope that's what it is anyway, because the alternative is that they don't really know if the vaccine actually works.


My understanding is the vaccine has only been proven to keep the vaccinated person from being infected with C19. There is no proof that the vaccinated person does not carry and distribute the virus. 

The point of a mask is not to keep you from getting infected with C19, its to keep your potentially infectious droplets/vapor/breath to yourself.


----------



## txjennah PE

bwin12 said:


> My understanding is the vaccine has only been proven to keep the vaccinated person from being infected with C19. There is no proof that the vaccinated person does not carry and distribute the virus.
> 
> The point of a mask is not to keep you from getting infected with C19, its to keep your potentially infectious droplets/vapor/breath to yourself.


I believe there is preliminary data for the Pfizer and J&J vaccines indicating reduced transmission from vaccinated individuals; my understanding is that while it's promising data, we just need more of it to make a definitive link.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## Violator

Smart move


----------



## jeb6294

Per the 'safety pause' Zoom meeting that I'm currently sitting in. No federal gov't agency is going to require employees to get the vaccine....it is strongly recommended, but not mandatory.


----------



## jeb6294

Welp, it got us....maybe. Took Ezra to Childrens this morning for some same day touch up work done. We tried to get him tested 2 days before per the instructions they sent but couldn’t because they didn’t put an order in the system. When they checked with the Dr. he said we didn’t need one since he wasn’t showing any symptoms and could get a rapid test day of. So we were there answering the 843 questions and the phone rings.... Nobody in the house is showing any symptoms, and it was the rapid test that has more frequent false positives, so I’m trying to decide if I’m going to get tested or just wait a couple weeks and do the antibody test. Wife is thinking of doing a rapid test tomorrow at the Dr’s office she works for so maybe I’ll go with her.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Good luck


----------



## Supe

The antibody test is probably the least accurate of them all, so I'd probably just go get the normal test.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

One of my brothers tested positive on anitbody test after receiving vaccine


----------



## Dleg

As they should. That's how vaccines work.


----------



## ruggercsc

Has anyone taken the J&J vaccine yet. I am planning on taking the first available when I get the chance, but I am still a few groups away in the queue.


----------



## txjennah PE

ruggercsc said:


> Has anyone taken the J&J vaccine yet. I am planning on taking the first available when I get the chance, but I am still a few groups away in the queue.


No, but I'm hoping that when it's my turn, that's the one I receive. One and done? Sign me up.


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## bwin12

Dleg said:


> As they should. That's how vaccines work.


Yes generally, but not this vaccine. Your body thinks it had measles because you were injected with a weakened measles virus and your body killed it, and created an antibody. 

From Mayo Clinic:

“Both the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna COVID-19 vaccines use messenger RNA (mRNA). Coronaviruses have a spike-like structure on their surface called an S protein. COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give cells instructions for how to make a harmless piece of an S protein. After vaccination, your cells begin making the protein pieces and displaying them on cell surfaces. Your immune system will recognize that the protein doesn't belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies.”

If you got this vaccine your body builds an “immunity” to having that S protein, not C19. This is the first time mRNA has been used, and I think thats part of why so many people are reluctant to get it if they don’t have to. 

The J&J vaccine is different. 

Full disclosure, I’m a Civil engineer, not a doctor.


----------



## NJHHEngineer P.E.

bwin12 said:


> Full disclosure, I’m a Civil engineer, not a doctor.



But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


----------



## Dleg

And your body reacts to the spike proteins by creating antibodies... the same antibodies that would be created if it was a spike protein on a real virus. Hence the antibody test comes up positive. The J&J vaccine does the same thing, it just uses a (harmless) virus to deliver the instructions for making the spike protein, instead of messenger RNA. But either way, both vaccines are fooling your immune system into responding and building immunity without ever having a live coronavirus in your body.


----------



## bwin12

I snipped this from the CDC: 



In particular the second paragraph. "There is a possibility you may test positive on some antibody tests". If the answer was "you will test positive for Covid antibodies after getting the vaccine" we wouldn't be discussing this. 

Everything we previously knew about vaccines is inaccurate now that they can do this mRNA method.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

bwin12 said:


> I snipped this from the CDC:
> View attachment 21407
> 
> 
> In particular the second paragraph. "There is a possibility you may test positive on some antibody tests". If the answer was "you will test positive for Covid antibodies after getting the vaccine" we wouldn't be discussing this.
> 
> Everything we previously knew about vaccines is inaccurate now that they can do this mRNA method.


I'm pretty sure it just depends on the antibody test, which specific antibodies are being searched for. If the antibody test is testing for antibodies against the spike protein then you will test positive. If the antibody test is searching for some other antibody then you won't.


----------



## ruggercsc

To help me understand it better:

Vaccine = Oprah interview with Meghan and Harry
Virus = Piers Morgan
Immune System = Other Hosts and Guests
Body = Set of Good Morning Britain
Antibodies = Piers Morgan empty chair from the set of Good Morning Britain

I think I got it now.


----------



## bwin12

ruggercsc said:


> To help me understand it better:
> 
> Vaccine = Oprah interview with Meghan and Harry
> Virus = Piers Morgan
> Immune System = Other Hosts and Guests
> Body = Set of Good Morning Britain
> Antibodies = Piers Morgan empty chair from the set of Good Morning Britain
> 
> I think I got it now


100%


----------



## Dleg

Your immune system reacts to any vaccine by producing antibodies, and a number of other defenses (B cells etc.) which can get pretty complicated. I am certainly no expert but I do have some public health education and I work in public health. The reason CDC says "may" and not "will" is because it's not a research question that has been answered, and everyone's immune system is a little different. So you get the safe answer of "may". But everyone I work with who actually knows this stuff says that you are likely to test positive on an antibody test after being vaccinated. 

And no, humanity does not have to throw out everything it knows about vaccines now. These are amazing new technologies that will revolutionize vaccination, but the basic principle is still the same: you introduce an antigen into the body (an antigen is simply a molecular component of a foreign body that the immune system will recognize and respond to), and the immune system hopefully responds and builds defenses against it. The mRNA vaccines just tell your cells to manufacture a piece of the virus that works as a good antigen, instead of injecting you with dead or attenuated whole viruses like with previous vaccines.


----------



## Dleg

ruggercsc said:


> To help me understand it better:
> 
> Vaccine = Oprah interview with Meghan and Harry
> Virus = Piers Morgan
> Immune System = Other Hosts and Guests
> Body = Set of Good Morning Britain
> Antibodies = Piers Morgan empty chair from the set of Good Morning Britain
> 
> I think I got it now.


No, the uncomfortable questions and being faced with his own words are the antibodies that made Piers Morgan get up and leave!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Yesterday Louisiana opened up vaccines to everyone 16 and older with one preexisting condition. Preexisting conditions include being overweight (i.e. BMI greater than 25), which is also knows as "Louisiana normal size."  LOL 








Who is Eligible? | La Dept. of Health


The Louisiana Department of Health protects and promotes health and ensures access to medical, preventive and rehabilitative services for all citizens of the State of Louisiana.




ldh.la.gov





My wife and I are scheduled for our first dose on Friday.

The speculation is that it will be open to everyone 16 and older by the end of April.


----------



## snickerd3

mr snick gets 1st dose today. we are still in the essential worker and 65+ phase.


----------



## txjennah PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> Yesterday Louisiana opened up vaccines to everyone 16 and older with one preexisting condition. Preexisting conditions include being overweight (i.e. BMI greater than 25), which is also knows as "Louisiana normal size."  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is Eligible? | La Dept. of Health
> 
> 
> The Louisiana Department of Health protects and promotes health and ensures access to medical, preventive and rehabilitative services for all citizens of the State of Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ldh.la.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife and I are scheduled for our first dose on Friday.
> 
> The speculation is that it will be open to everyone 16 and older by the end of April.


I'm so happy to hear that you and your wife are about to get it!


----------



## Dleg

My wife gets her 2nd dose tomorrow as a critical worker. Almost didn't happen though. One of her coworkers tested positive two days ago and it was assumed she was a close contact, so my wife went into self quarantine and we were informed she would have to wait until she was released to get vaccinated. But then the contact tracers determined she was not a close contact, so the second dose is back on. Kind of nerve wracking. But my medical colleagues think that her risk would have been very low anyway because she was almost 4 weeks post first dose (Moderna), which should give pretty decent protection on its own.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dleg said:


> My wife gets her 2nd dose tomorrow as a critical worker. Almost didn't happen though. One of her coworkers tested positive two days ago and it was assumed she was a close contact, so my wife went into self quarantine and we were informed she would have to wait until she was released to get vaccinated. But then the contact tracers determined she was not a close contact, so the second dose is back on. Kind of nerve wracking. But my medical colleagues think that her risk would have been very low anyway because she was almost 4 weeks post first dose (Moderna), which should give pretty decent protection on its own.


Glad that worked out


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Very interesting data...









See How Vaccinations Are Going in Your County and State


See where doses have gone, and who is eligible for a shot in each state.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## ruggercsc

I got my first Moderna shot today and I am utterly disappointed. I thought it changed my DNA into a superhero and was looking forward to joining the Justice League or the Avengers. My only power was slowing down to 72 MPH just as I topped a small hill and saw a State Trooper sitting there. I was sure he could GPS on my recently implanted microchip and calculate how fast I was going.


----------



## snickerd3

availability really just depends where you are urban/rural. Chicago is still having issues finding appts, but central IL it is actually rather easy to find appts somewhere whether county health department, hospital, pharmacy. But this is a recent development. Up until about 2 weeks ago only the health department was getting doses.


----------



## NikR_PE

snickerd3 said:


> availability really just depends where you are urban/rural. Chicago is still having issues finding appts, but central IL it is actually rather easy to find appts somewhere whether county health department, hospital, pharmacy. But this is a recent development. Up until about 2 weeks ago only the health department was getting doses.


I agree. Folks who are willing to drive about an hour are able to get appointments. people have had success with the mass vaccination drives in Chicago.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

I friend of my who is originally from California said that protestors have shut down the mass vaccination events at Dodgers stadium.









Protesters Disrupt L.A.’s Dodger Stadium Vaccination Site


Los Angeles’ Dodger Stadium, which was turned into one of the biggest Covid-19 vaccination sites in the U.S. this month, was closed for almost an hour Saturday afternoon because of a protest, a city official said.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Dleg

"The demonstrators included members of anti-vaccine and far-right groups, the newspaper said."

What does that mean? Nazis? Q-anons? Ya'all-Qaeda?


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Got my first of two arm doots. Still haven't received any messages from Q, but I'll keep waiting patiently.


----------



## Roarbark

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Got my first of two arm doots. Still haven't received any messages from Q, but I'll keep waiting patiently.


Congrats on the doot.


----------



## Dothracki PE




----------



## txjennah PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> Got my first of two arm doots. Still haven't received any messages from Q, but I'll keep waiting patiently.


I received my first dose yesterday and I still can't telepathically communicate with Bill Gates. I WANT A REFUND ON MY FREE VACCINE


----------



## txjennah PE

Dothracki PE said:


> View attachment 21526


If vaccinespotter isn't working, try this: TurboVax (I'm sure you already know about it, but just in case!!)


----------



## DLD PE

I have my first doot scheduled for Tues.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Interesting. After my first dose the 5G signal on my phone improved.


----------



## Dothracki PE

txjennah PE said:


> If vaccinespotter isn't working, try this: TurboVax (I'm sure you already know about it, but just in case!!)


Thanks, issue is I am not actually eligible until Monday so there is a network of official vaccine centers I can't see until then but I have seen two open appointent through RiteAid from the vaccinespotter site. The appointments just move so fast that by the time these sites report an opening, it's gone.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

Vax appointment this afternoon. Was registered on four different wait lists.

Hoping for ability to fly, maybe adamantium claws


----------



## jeb6294

Platypus Engineer said:


> Vax appointment this afternoon. Was registered on four different wait lists.
> 
> Hoping for ability to fly, maybe adamantium claws


To be fair, adamantium claws/skeleton aren’t really a mutant ability. Your best bet is healing powers and then hope some secret Gov’t organization can hook you up with claws.

I get the J&J shot on Sunday. Hopefully the superpower potential is still there with the single shot.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

jeb6294 said:


> To be fair, adamantium claws/skeleton aren’t really a mutant ability. Your best bet is healing powers and then hope some secret Gov’t organization can hook you up with claws.
> 
> I get the J&J shot on Sunday. Hopefully the superpower potential is still there with the single shot.


I know the claws just seem really cool. 

Given the amount of pipe locating I have done in my career, the most useful superpower for work related reasons would be x-ray vision.


----------



## Platypus Engineer




----------



## Orchid PE

Dang. Covid is still a thing? Haven't really heard or dealt with it much after moving down to FL.


----------



## bwin12

Chattaneer PE said:


> Dang. Covid is still a thing? Haven't really heard or dealt with it much after moving down to FL.


I was there 3.21 to 3.28. 100% true. 

There was a stark difference between Boulder CO and anywhere we went in FL.


----------



## jeb6294

Wife got her second shot yesterday. She said she didn’t feel any worse than usual, but something seemed a little off with her this morning. I just can’t put my finger on what....


----------



## Dothracki PE

Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Paused After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge (Published 2021)


Federal health officials called for a halt in the use of the company’s coronavirus vaccine while they study serious illnesses that developed in six American women.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## jeb6294

Dothracki PE said:


> Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Paused After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge (Published 2021)
> 
> 
> Federal health officials called for a halt in the use of the company’s coronavirus vaccine while they study serious illnesses that developed in six American women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Don't even get me started. Every time the CDC/Fauci opens their mouth, it makes me think they're only concerned with spreading panic and staying in the spotlight.

According to Johns Hopkins, CVST (the blood clots they're talking about) is rare but affects 5 out of 1,000,000 every year. There have been 6.8 million doses of the J&J vaccine given out meaning there's a very real potential for 34 people in that group to develop blood clots. They're "pausing" the vaccine because six people developed blood clots....*6*.









Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST)


Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis occurs when a blood clot forms in the brain’s venous sinuses. This prevents blood from draining out of the brain. As a result, blood cells may break and leak blood into the brain tissues, forming a hemorrhage.




www.hopkinsmedicine.org


----------



## txjennah PE

*CBS News: People who just got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are worried. What should they look out for? *

Dr. Anthony Fauci: Well, it depends on when they got it. It appears that this adverse event occurs between six days and 13 days. So if you've had it a month or two ago, I think you really don't need to worry about anything. If you are in the time frame of within a week or two of having gotten vaccinated, remember one thing: *This is a very rare event. It's less than one in a million.*

Source: Dr. Anthony Fauci on what the Johnson & Johnson vaccine reactions could mean for women

*CDC Statement:*

CDC will convene a meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) on Wednesday to further review these cases and assess their potential significance. FDA will review that analysis as it also investigates these cases. Until that process is complete, we are recommending a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution. This is important, in part, to ensure that the health care provider community is aware of the potential for these adverse events and can plan for proper recognition and management due to the unique treatment required with this type of blood clot.

*Right now, these adverse events appear to be extremely rare.* COVID-19 vaccine safety is a top priority for the federal government, and we take all reports of health problems following COVID-19 vaccination very seriously. 

Source: Coronavirus Disease 2019


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

jeb6294 said:


> Don't even get me started. Every time the CDC/Fauci opens their mouth, it makes me think they're only concerned with spreading panic and staying in the spotlight.
> 
> According to Johns Hopkins, CVST (the blood clots they're talking about) is rare but affects 5 out of 1,000,000 every year. There have been 6.8 million doses of the J&J vaccine given out meaning there's a very real potential for 34 people in that group to develop blood clots. They're "pausing" the vaccine because six people developed blood clots....*6*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST)
> 
> 
> Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis occurs when a blood clot forms in the brain’s venous sinuses. This prevents blood from draining out of the brain. As a result, blood cells may break and leak blood into the brain tissues, forming a hemorrhage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hopkinsmedicine.org


You're not wrong, but it is a little more complex than that. 

All medicines are required to disclose all possible adverse side effects, which required extensive research and testing. This side effect was not disclosed by J&J. Protocol dictates that they have to pause use to (1) determine if this was missed or was it intentionally hidden, (2) assess if anything else was missed or intentionally hidden, (3) update all paperwork, procedures, risks assessments etc so doctors have all necessary info when deciding how to treat their patients. 

The J&J vaccine has proved to be effective and this side effect is exceeding rare. It's expected that they can get through this process and un-pause the use very soon. But due diligence is required.


----------



## Supe

For reporting of side effects, is there any threshold for statistical significance?


----------



## snickerd3

Got my 2nd shot yesterday. Woohoo!!! The arm hurts worse than after the first but otherwise no other issues here. I tired today, but we ate dinner really late so I stayed up later than usual. so I can't attribute it to the shot.


----------



## Supe

snickerd3 said:


> Got my 2nd shot yesterday. Woohoo!!! The arm hurts worse than after the first but otherwise no other issues here. I tired today, but we ate dinner really late so I stayed up later than usual. so I can't attribute it to the shot.


About 6 hours into shot #2 here, and so far, just a bit tired, mild headache, and a sore arm. Cautiously optimistic!


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Supe said:


> For reporting of side effects, is there any threshold for statistical significance?


That's a good question. I don't know. (But I know someone I could ask.)

From what I understand, anything that happens to any trial participants during the trial has to be reported. So even if there's no stated statistical cutoff, there would be a de-facto cutoff just because trials only have so many people in them. If the trial was thousands or 10's of thousand of people, but not millions, everything could have been done correctly and this could have still been missed.

It's also interesting to me that all of the people who experience blood clots are women.

Historically sex as a biological variable (SABV) has been ignored in research studies. Interestingly, most of the drug recalls in the last couple of decades have been because of women-specific side effects that weren't discovered during trials. Human trials are pretty even between men and women today, but animal trials (which is the first step for almost all research) typically uses male animals, simply because boy mice are cheaper to purchase than girl mice. Also most of the cell lines that scientist use for research are male cells. Awareness has been growing over this as a major oversight in science. 

In the past few years the US National Institute of Health, the European Commission, and the Canadian Institute of Health Research have all instituted SABV policies. Some scientific journals have stopped publishing research where SABV isn't considered. So things are improving, but I'm curious if this is related to this specific J&J blood clotting issue.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent, but if you want to learn more.








NIH Policy on Sex as a Biological Variable | Office of Research on Women's Health


Women now account for roughly half of all participants in NIH-supported clinical research, which is subject to NIH's Policy on the Inclusion of Women in Clinical Research. However, more often than not, basic and preclinical biomedical research has focused on male animals and cells. An...




orwh.od.nih.gov










Sex as a biological variable - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jeb6294

txjennah PE said:


> *This is a very rare event. It's less than one in a million.*



Your chances of developing that type of blood clot while just walking down the street is 5 is 1,000,000. Since Fauci’s saying you chances are 1 in 1,000,000 with the shot, by his logic, the J&J vaccine actually prevents blood clots.


----------



## jeb6294

jean15paul_PE said:


> You're not wrong, but it is a little more complex than that.



How is it any more complicated than that? Pretty good chance that, out of 7 million people, there are going to be a few that end up getting cancer. Are we now supposed to jump to the conclusion that the vaccine also causes cancer?


----------



## JayKay PE

jeb6294 said:


> How is it any more complicated than that? Pretty good chance that, out of 7 million people, there are going to be a few that end up getting cancer. Are we now supposed to jump to the conclusion that the vaccine also causes cancer?


I mean, we jumped to the conclusion that McDonalds french fries cause cancer, so why not?


----------



## DLD PE

I got my first dose last week. I literallly felt like I had the flu the next day. It was worse than when I had Covid. The second day, I felt fine. 

I uploaded a gif and it produced a still image because I forgot to save it on my desktop first and THEN upload it. Can I conclude the vaccine causes forgetfulness? Or was I already forgetful? I don't remember.


----------



## txjennah PE

jeb6294 said:


> Your chances of developing that type of blood clot while just walking down the street is 5 is 1,000,000. Since Fauci’s saying you chances are 1 in 1,000,000 with the shot, by his logic, the J&J vaccine actually prevents blood clots.


----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE




----------



## JayKay PE

I hope these PSAs helped those who have already completed their vaccination schedule.


----------



## kevo_55

Oh, that felt better. I've been away for too long.


----------



## kevo_55

One more for good measure.


----------



## Dleg

I think the issue with the J&J blood clot statistics is not the rate (6 out of over 6 million) but the timing. Yes, the rate is less than the statistical background, but the fact that they occurred so soon after the vaccination is reason to be concerned and why CDC and FDA are taking the steps now to pause and investigate.


----------



## Dothracki PE

JayKay PE said:


> I hope these PSAs helped those who have already completed their vaccination schedule.


So being vaccinated does NOT mean I can pack up my family on a road trip to Wally World?


----------



## JayKay PE

Dothracki PE said:


> So being vaccinated does NOT mean I can pack up my family on a road trip to Wally World?


Tru


----------



## Dleg

Dleg said:


> That is interesting, but I have two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Africa shouldn't be congratulating themselves yet. This isn't over (look at India - they were slow to take off but now their numbers are crazy).
> 
> 2. The age structure / demographics in Africa may explain most of the difference in death toll. Regardless of political correctness, Africa still remains a place where people just don't live that long. See the population pyramid:
> 
> View attachment 18865
> 
> 
> Compare this to the US:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are simply more old people in the US than there are in Africa. From that alone, we should expect a higher death rate in the US compared to Africa. The so-far lower death rates in India may also be attributed to this, to a great extent:


Wow, India is really losing control: 273,802 new cases yesterday:


----------



## Supe

That's a pretty crazy spike. I wonder if there is an increase in testing for some reason that correlates?


----------



## NikR_PE

Supe said:


> That's a pretty crazy spike. I wonder if there is an increase in testing for some reason that correlates?


New mutation it seems. We had to ask our team there to not show up at the office until further notice.


----------



## mudpuppy

Dleg said:


> I think the issue with the J&J blood clot statistics is not the rate (6 out of over 6 million) but the timing. Yes, the rate is less than the statistical background, but the fact that they occurred so soon after the vaccination is reason to be concerned and why CDC and FDA are taking the steps now to pause and investigate.



I also read that the treatment for these types of blood clots (with low platelet count) is opposite of how most blood clots are treated (with heparin) and they wanted to make sure doctors were aware to not just automatically use the normal treatment.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

mudpuppy said:


> I also read that the treatment for these types of blood clots (with low platelet count) is opposite of how most blood clots are treated (with heparin) and they wanted to make sure doctors were aware to not just automatically use the normal treatment.


Yes, I heard the same thing a day or 2 ago. Normally you would treat blood clots with Heparin, but in this case Heparin actually makes it worse.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Supercomputer Shows Coronavirus Spread While Drinking Outdoors


Japanese supercomputer Fugaku showed how coronavirus droplets can be spread by people drinking and socializing outdoors at bars and restaurants




www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## Dleg

Dothracki PE said:


> Supercomputer Shows Coronavirus Spread While Drinking Outdoors
> 
> 
> Japanese supercomputer Fugaku showed how coronavirus droplets can be spread by people drinking and socializing outdoors at bars and restaurants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


Get vaccinated, people.


----------



## snickerd3

I'm too much of chicken to open because I think I would rather not know.


----------



## kevo_55

^^Just a computer simulation with people drinking way to close to others.

Sad thing is that this isn't what goes on in Tokyo. People value their space when they get toasted!


----------



## Supe

kevo_55 said:


> ^^Just a computer simulation with people drinking way to close to others.
> 
> Sad thing is that this isn't what goes on in Tokyo. People value their space when they get toasted!


Doesn't Japan have a ton of teeny tiny bars with just a handful of seats though?


----------



## kevo_55

Yeah, but strangers aren't around a table. In those places are in a single line or maybe an L. The largest one I saw had seating for 8. Most are like 4 or 5.

Plus, if you get rowdy or talk too loud you get shown the door pretty quick in those places.

Granted, this is Tokyo. They may very well what is shown in the model in Osaka.


----------



## Supe

The L shape is what I remember from watching Anthony Bourdain.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

Ooo, got my second arm doot! George Soros and Bill Gates 5G signal acquired...

*reticulating splines*


----------



## Dothracki PE

MIT Researchers Say Time Spent Indoors Increases Risk of Covid at 6 Feet Or 60 Feet in New Study Challenging Social Distancing Policies


The CDC and WHO guidelines fail to factor in the amount of time spent indoors, which increases the chance of transmission the longer people are inside.




www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## Dleg

Back to the memes


----------



## Dleg

.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

This email from the official city account is some seriously only in New Orleans stuff


----------



## Supe

Last night, a local brewery and food truck hosted a walk-in, no appointment vaccine event in Charlotte...


----------



## wilheldp_PE

That's pretty smart thinking on the bars/restaurants. They won't ever get close to normal if we don't reach herd immunity, and we won't reach herd immunity unless most people get vaccinated. Giving away a free drink or menu item is a small price to pay to entice people to get jabbed.


----------



## Dleg

Yeah the incentives need to be centered around bars, sports and NASCAR to get to that remaining 40% who think the vaccine will turn them into 5G cellphone towers.


----------



## bwin12

Serious (probably hypothetical) question- what is the demographic that's not getting vaccinated?


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

bwin12 said:


> Serious (probably hypothetical) question- what is the demographic that's not getting vaccinated?


I've seen statistics showing that a high percentage of Republicans/conservatives have more "vaccine hesitancy" than Democrats/liberals. (Don't remember the specific numbers.)

Also the vaccine is much more available and easier to get in cities than in rural areas. On average there are fewer appointments per capita, and people are required to travel further to get vaccinated in rural areas.


----------



## DLD PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> I've seen statistics showing that a high percentage of Republicans/conservatives have more "vaccine hesitancy" than Democrats/liberals. (Don't remember the specific numbers.)
> 
> Also the vaccine is much more available and easier to get in cities than in rural areas. On average there are fewer appointments per capita, and people are required to travel further to get vaccinated in rural areas.


True. Just look at Mississippi.


----------



## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

The CDC just released new mask guidelines for vaccinated people. The short version, if you're fully vaccinated then you don't need a mask when outdoors unless it's a large gathering (e.g. a concert).









COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE


This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## kevo_55

Thank god fully vaccinated people don't need to wash their hands anymore.


----------



## squaretaper LIT AF PE

kevo_55 said:


> Thank god fully vaccinated people don't need to wash their hands anymore.


You guys wash your hands??


----------



## wilheldp_PE

We don't have to wash our hands, and we can get up in peoples' business. I'll have none of that social distancing any more.

Except I will because I'm not particularly fond of people. Social distancing was never really an issue for me.


----------



## Dleg

Some basic vaccination demographics from CDC (race, age) but nothing about politics:








COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov





and trend graphs by age:








COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov





Here is some published survey data on potential other factors associated with COVID vaccination hesitancy: 




> Vaccine hesitancy and reasons for refusing the COVID-19 vaccination among the U.S. public: A cross-sectional survey
> Ali S. Raja, Joshua D. Niforatos, Nancy Anaya, Joseph Graterol, Robert M. Rodriguez
> medRxiv 2021.02.28.21252610; doi: Vaccine hesitancy and reasons for refusing the COVID-19 vaccination among the U.S. public: A cross-sectional survey
> 
> *Results* A total 663 respondents (37.8%) were COVID-19 vaccine hesitant (374 [21.3%] non-acceptors and 289 [16.5%] unsure about accepting). Vaccine hesitancy was associated with not receiving influenza vaccination in the past 5 years (odds ratio [OR] 4.07, 95% confidence interval [CI] 3.26-5.07, p<0.01), female gender (OR 2.12, 95%CI 1.70-2.65, p<0.01), Black race (OR 1.54, 95%CI 1.05-2.26, p=0.03), having a high school education or less (OR 1.46, 95%CI 1.03-2.07, p=0.03), and Republican party affiliation (OR 2.41, 95%CI 1.88-3.10, p<0.01). Primary reasons for hesitancy were concerns about side effects, need for more information, and doubts about vaccine efficacy. Preferred sites for vaccination for acceptors were primary doctors’ offices/clinics, pharmacies, and dedicated vaccination locations.



Interpretation: people who were hesitant to receive the COVID vaccine were 2.41 times more likely to be Republican, 1.46 times more likely to have a high school education or less, 1.54 times more likely to be black, 2.12 times more likely to be female, and 4.07 times more likely to have not received an influenza vaccination in the past 5 years. 

Here's some more data from December:


----------



## Dleg

Oh and here's the up-to-date version of the KFF graph above. This is an excellent web page if you want to explore vaccination attitudes and how they are changing in real time:









KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard


Using a combination of surveys and focus groups, the KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor will track the dynamic nature of public reactions as vaccine development unfolds, including vaccine confidence and …




www.kff.org





And here's a screen grab for the "definitely not" category:


----------



## Supe

I find it a bit interesting that a very outspoken and predominantly democratic/educated (at least some college, compared to previous generations statistically) Gen Z/young millennials lead the way in the "wait and see" and "only if required" categories. Has that been skewed by the timeline of things reopening/restrictions being relaxed prior to immunization? They're also second to last on the "already got it" category, but that can likely be explained by the fact that they would fall dead last in most states for eligibility.


----------



## txjennah PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> The CDC just released new mask guidelines for vaccinated people. The short version, if you're fully vaccinated then you don't need a mask when outdoors unless it's a large gathering (e.g. a concert).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE
> 
> 
> This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 21652


I was very excited to go on a walk yesterday and leave my mask at home


----------



## DLD PE

I received my second dose yesterday.

My take (on vaccine hesitancy): I try to look at the big picture and listen to the experts (Doctors, CDC, etc.) If they think it's a good idea to get the vaccine, I'm going to get it. I get the flu vaccine every year. Think in terms of masses. What would happen if every eligible person got the Covid vaccine? The benefits would far outweigh the harm/risks. That's how I see it anyway.

What if there was a flu vaccine available in 1917? Or put it another way, what if only 1/4 or 1/2 the population chose to get the polio vaccine in 1950 (or whenever it came out)? I just don't understand the mass hesitancy of getting a vaccine.


----------



## bwin12

Supe said:


> Gen Z/young millennials lead the way in the "wait and see" and "only if required" categories


Think about it this way: for the duration of Covid it has been told to us that healthy people handle it fine (minor symptoms, but distance because you may have it without knowing and spread it) and that was reiterated to millennials when the vaccine was rolled out and they couldn't get it for 4 months. You (CDC/govt) can't talk out of both sides of their mouth- you don't need this, we won't give it to you but oh wait you are supposed to come out in droves to get a shot now. 

Also, I noted that the hesitancy info above that I looked at never included a option for "healthy" or "believes they are healthy enough to handle Covid". I believe that plays a big part in hesitancy.


----------



## Supe

I guess I just can't wrap my brain around being such outspoken proponents of masking up/distancing, but then be "meh" when it comes to vaccination. (FWIW, I'm an older millennial/xennial who masked/distanced diligently and got vaccinated ASAP, but am strongly against how local governments handled/still are handling it.)


----------



## snickerd3

I think the emergency use only label scares a lot of people away too. When they slap the officially approved label on it I think there will be another surge of willing takers. People want to wait and see the longer term effects if any, especially with a "new" delivery method.


----------



## JayKay PE

DuranDuran said:


> What if there was a flu vaccine available in 1917? Or put it another way, what if only 1/4 or 1/2 the population chose to get the polio vaccine in 1950 (or whenever it came out)? I just don't understand the mass hesitancy of getting a vaccine.


My grandfather had polio. He was super angry about people not getting vaccinated and got a vaccine shot as soon as able. My grandmother wasn't able to get a shot, due to being immuno-compromised. He was like "If people didn't get the polio vaccine, how many more people would have been killed? It's a travesty!"


----------



## snickerd3

Mr snick's grandfather got polio. I just learned my grandfather had it too. He died when my dad was a teenager so it never really came up. 

wouldn't wish it on anyone from the way Mr Snick's GF talked about it.


----------



## Dleg

bwin12 said:


> Think about it this way: for the duration of Covid it has been told to us that healthy people handle it fine (minor symptoms, but distance because you may have it without knowing and spread it) and that was reiterated to millennials when the vaccine was rolled out and they couldn't get it for 4 months. You (CDC/govt) can't talk out of both sides of their mouth- you don't need this, we won't give it to you but oh wait you are supposed to come out in droves to get a shot now.
> 
> Also, I noted that the hesitancy info above that I looked at never included a option for "healthy" or "believes they are healthy enough to handle Covid". I believe that plays a big part in hesitancy.


I guess the messaging about vaccination being mostly about protecting others is lost on these folks. Even with polio, 70% of cases are asymptomatic, and less than 1% resulted in flaccid paralysis, yet the Greatest Generation made damn sure everyone did their civic duty to protect those who were more vulnerable, by getting vaccinated to build herd immunity. The selfishness and "me first" attitudes of the current generations puts the Boomers to shame.


----------



## Dothracki PE

New York and New Jersey are fast tracking reopening all businesses May 19th even though we are only 30-40% with vaccination progress. I guess it's still more restrictive than some other states who think the virus doesn't exist.









Cuomo: Most NY, NJ Capacity Restrictions to End Starting May 19; Social Distancing (Mostly) Stays


By the end of May, the only core COVID restrictions that will be left in New York are social distancing, masking and capacity limits at stadiums.




www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## Supe

He's sure pushing hard to avoid a recall, isn't he?


----------



## Dothracki PE

Pandemic-led decline of U.S. cities may be reversing | amNewYork


Fears that U.S. cities would be emptied by the coronavirus pandemic are giving way to potential signs of revival, according to a series of analyses that




www.amny.com


----------



## Dleg

Dothracki PE said:


> New York and New Jersey are fast tracking reopening all businesses May 19th even though we are only 30-40% with vaccination progress. I guess it's still more restrictive than some other states who think the virus doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuomo: Most NY, NJ Capacity Restrictions to End Starting May 19; Social Distancing (Mostly) Stays
> 
> 
> By the end of May, the only core COVID restrictions that will be left in New York are social distancing, masking and capacity limits at stadiums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


I saw a modeling study a few months ago that said when you reach about 40% vaccinated, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths drop by around 80%. So it's not a bad target, given all the "vaccine hesitant" people (= A holes).


----------



## jeb6294

Supe said:


> He's sure pushing hard to avoid a recall, isn't he?


Probably hoping that people will forget that he’s a perv.


----------



## Dleg




----------



## blybrook PE

I've had both doses. The second dose wiped my energy for about 24 hours; but all is good now. I'm having to travel again a bit more for work to keep contracts in order, so I'm glad I was vaccinated before traveling again.


----------



## Dothracki PE

CDC now stressing the importance of mask wearing and ventilation systems as studies show transmission is possible at distances more than 6 feet. 









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## Dleg

^I think this has been apparent to anyone who has been paying attention and especially to those of us with some education in the air transport of pollutants. You cough and speak and expell little droplets containing the virus and other particles. Some of those droplets fall out of the air within 3-6 ft as was the basis for the old social distancing standards, but anyone with any knowledge of air pollutants should have been able to predict that the smallest of droplets would stay airborne longer, and potentially evaporate away to the bare virus/snot particle nuclei, that would then stay afloat for even longer.

After that, it's just a matter of dose. Which means an equation of time, ventilation, number of people, volume of talking (shouting, singing etc.), and whether or not people are blocking the creation of airborne particles by wearing masks. Building a mental model of all that points pretty strongly to what the higher risk locations are - bars, churches, indoor sporting events, etc.


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## squaretaper LIT AF PE

^This is why I advocate continuing to wear a mask, just, in general. Regardless of the Rona, humans are just plain disgusting, walking bags o' bio sludge!


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## Exengineer

I wonder if anyone still considers Bill Gates the pure holy philanthropist doing good out of the abundance of his heart in the face of revelations coming out about his whoremongering and being a pussy-hound at Microsoft and The Gates Foundation while married. He got a reputation as someone whose behavior in business settings was inappropriate and yet the media covered for him to keep his squeaky clean image intact. I can only imagine the things he got up to while visiting Jeffrey Epstein.


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## wilheldp_PE

Exengineer said:


> I wonder if anyone still considers Bill Gates the pure holy philanthropist doing good out of the abundance of his heart in the face of revelations coming out about his whoremongering and being a pussy-hound at Microsoft and The Gates Foundation while married. He got a reputation as someone whose behavior in business settings was inappropriate and yet the media covered for him to keep his squeaky clean image intact. I can only imagine the things he got up to while visiting Jeffrey Epstein.


His sex life, while also being none of our business, has nothing to do with his philanthropic efforts. He has donated billions of dollars to a wide variety of humanitarian causes across the globe. Covid-19 is the biggest humanitarian crises the world has seen during our lifetimes. If you want to have wild conspiracy theories that he is trying to take over the world through the Covid vaccine, you'd be better served not stating that publicly. "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

wilheldp_PE said:


> His sex life, while also being none of our business, has nothing to do with his philanthropic efforts. He has donated billions of dollars to a wide variety of humanitarian causes across the globe. Covid-19 is the biggest humanitarian crises the world has seen during our lifetimes. If you want to have wild conspiracy theories that he is trying to take over the world through the Covid vaccine, you'd be better served not stating that publicly. "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."


I agree that his personal life does not invalidate his philanthropic efforts. (In general society doesn't like to view public figures as complete and complex people with both good and bad aspects, but I won't get on that soapbox now.)
But if Bill Gates is doing anything illegal (sexual harassment or worse), it is in the public's interest to know about it.


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## DLD PE

squaretaper LIT AF PE said:


> ^This is why I advocate continuing to wear a mask, just, in general. Regardless of the Rona, humans are just plain disgusting, walking bags o' bio sludge!


I got my Covid infection from a church so I've proven how disgusting church is.


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## jeb6294

wilheldp_PE said:


> His sex life, while also being none of our business, has nothing to do with his philanthropic efforts. He has donated billions of dollars to a wide variety of humanitarian causes across the globe. Covid-19 is the biggest humanitarian crises the world has seen during our lifetimes. If you want to have wild conspiracy theories that he is trying to take over the world through the Covid vaccine, you'd be better served not stating that publicly. "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."


Except that it is coming from his (ex-)wife and implies that all his philanthropy was done to show the world what a great guy he is while hiding the fact that he's a dirtbag/pedophile.


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## Platypus Engineer

People wearing giant rubber heads of various world leaders. Some sort of protest at G7 summit over vaccine distribution


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## Dothracki PE

My office building just lifted almost all restrictions for those who are fully vaccinated. They are still maintaining that masks must be worn for unvaccinated people and they are still asking the usual 5 COVID questions when tenants and visitors first arrive.


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## snickerd3

love it


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## ruggercsc

snickerd3 said:


> love it


Sad, avoidable, but true.

Also, I remember when Electric Ave. was on MTV's rotation back in the day. It was shortly after we got Cable TV and went from getting 6 channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, an Independent Station and a religious broadcasting station) to getting 40+/-. That was progress. Also, there was no remote. If you wanted to change channels you had to get up and adjust the CATV box.


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## Dleg

ruggercsc said:


> Sad, avoidable, but true.
> 
> Also, I remember when Electric Ave. was on MTV's rotation back in the day. It was shortly after we got Cable TV and went from getting 6 channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, an Independent Station and a religious broadcasting station) to getting 40+/-. That was progress. Also, there was not remote. If you wanted to change channels you had to get up and adjust the CATV box.


No dude, look how long that cord is. I would lay my ass down on the floor with a pillow and use that as a "remote" all day!

This is what ours looked like. I still think of the lower channels in terms of which of the three "tiers" they were on:


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## Supe

Dleg said:


> No dude, look how long that cord is. I would lay my ass down on the floor with a pillow and use that as a "remote" all day!
> 
> This is what ours looked like. I still think of the lower channels in terms of which of the three "tiers" they were on:
> 
> View attachment 23202


We had one of those bad boys, and a TV with wooden side panels that matched for good measure. When we finally upgraded, I still played with that thing as a toy.


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## snickerd3

Supe said:


> We had one of those bad boys, and a TV with wooden side panels that matched for good measure. When we finally upgraded, I still played with that thing as a toy.


retro fidget "spinner"


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## bwin12

Does anyone have any data on why people are not getting vaccinated? I see there is a push to get the full FDA approval, but I think that's going to have minimal affect.


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## Dleg




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## Dleg

bwin12 said:


> Does anyone have any data on why people are not getting vaccinated? I see there is a push to get the full FDA approval, but I think that's going to have minimal affect.


I've posted the link to the KFF page before which tracks public attitudes toward COVID-19 vaccination. Here's the latest summary:

"The July KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor finds the key demographic differences between the “wait and see” and the “definitely not” groups still center on racial and ethnic identity and political partisanship. Four in ten of those in the “wait and see” group are people of color, while the most vaccine resistant group, those who say they will “definitely not” get a COVID-19 vaccine, is overwhelmingly made up of White adults (65% of the group compared to 50% of the “wait and see” group). Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group identifying as Republican or Republican-leaning. In addition, religious identity also plays a role as White Evangelical Christians make up nearly twice the share of the “definitely not” group (32%) as the “wait and see” group."









KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard


Using a combination of surveys and focus groups, the KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor will track the dynamic nature of public reactions as vaccine development unfolds, including vaccine confidence and …




www.kff.org


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## wilheldp_PE

Dleg said:


> Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group identifying as Republican or Republican-leaning.


I thought that number looked a little low, then I checked the numbers. Only 15% of that group are Democrat or leaning. I'd wager that most of the remaining 27% are Libertarian (or similar) that mistrust government in general.


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## Dleg




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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

BLACKpreneur®️ on Instagram: "Lmaoooo did y’all see this ?? by @bmotheprince Johnson & Johnson out here getting it all wrong 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️ #vaccine #johnsonandjohnson"


BLACKpreneur®️ shared a post on Instagram: "Lmaoooo did y’all see this ?? by @bmotheprince Johnson & Johnson out here getting it all wrong 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️ #vaccine #johnsonandjohnson". Follow their account to see 10586 posts.




www.instagram.com


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## Dothracki PE

This article is scary. Data in NJ is showing that nearly 20% of new cases and 3% of hospitalizations occur with fully vaccinated people. Also that the Delta varient is responsible for 90% of new cases in NJ. I imagine These figures are similar across the country. 









Mayo Clinic: COVID Breakthrough Risk May Be Much Lower With Moderna Than Pfizer


The risk of suffering a breakthrough COVID-19 infection with the delta variant after being fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine may be much lower than the risk for those who received the Pfizer vaccine, according to a new Mayo Clinic study that is awaiting a full review. The study found...




www.nbcnewyork.com


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Dothracki PE said:


> This article is scary. Data in NJ is showing that nearly 20% of new cases and 3% of hospitalizations occur with fully vaccinated people. Also that the Delta varient is responsible for 90% of new cases in NJ. I imagine These figures are similar across the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mayo Clinic: COVID Breakthrough Risk May Be Much Lower With Moderna Than Pfizer
> 
> 
> The risk of suffering a breakthrough COVID-19 infection with the delta variant after being fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine may be much lower than the risk for those who received the Pfizer vaccine, according to a new Mayo Clinic study that is awaiting a full review. The study found...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


That's not that scary. So 97% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated people. Probably a similar order of magnitude for deaths.

So the vaccine keeps you out of the hospital and alive and mostly prevents COVID.


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## Dothracki PE

jean15paul_PE said:


> That's not that scary. So 97% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated people. Probably a similar order of magnitude for deaths.
> 
> So the vaccine keeps you out of the hospital and alive and mostly prevents COVID.


That is a more positive way to look at it


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## snickerd3

Dleg said:


> I've posted the link to the KFF page before which tracks public attitudes toward COVID-19 vaccination. Here's the latest summary:
> 
> "The July KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor finds the key demographic differences between the “wait and see” and the “definitely not” groups still center on racial and ethnic identity and political partisanship. Four in ten of those in the “wait and see” group are people of color, while the most vaccine resistant group, those who say they will “definitely not” get a COVID-19 vaccine, is overwhelmingly made up of White adults (65% of the group compared to 50% of the “wait and see” group). Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group identifying as Republican or Republican-leaning. In addition, religious identity also plays a role as White Evangelical Christians make up nearly twice the share of the “definitely not” group (32%) as the “wait and see” group."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard
> 
> 
> Using a combination of surveys and focus groups, the KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor will track the dynamic nature of public reactions as vaccine development unfolds, including vaccine confidence and …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kff.org


my BIL's wife falls into that republican white evangelical christian "Definitely not" group, so my BIL isn't allowed to get one either.


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## txjennah PE

Dothracki PE said:


> That is a more positive way to look at it


The vaccines have been so good that we forget that their main purpose was preventing severe illness and death in the first place. Breakthrough cases were always expected. The fact that the vaccines seemed to be lowering chances of transmission (at least with the other variants, not so much Delta) was just icing on the cake.


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## Ijoinedbecausecovid

bwin12 said:


> Does anyone have any data on why people are not getting vaccinated? I see there is a push to get the full FDA approval, but I think that's going to have minimal affect.


Of people I know some are worried about the side effects (eyeroll since they aren't worried about the worse effects of the virus), can't be bothered or they are suffering some form of delusion that the vaccine is evil/gives them cancer/turn them into a liberal. It reminds me of this quote from Cyborg:

"First there was the collapse of civilization: anarchy, genocide, starvation. Then when it seemed things couldn't get any worse, we got the plague. The Living Death, quickly closing its fist over the entire planet. Then we heard the rumors: that the last scientists were working on a cure that would end the plague and restore the world. Restore it? Why? I like the death! I like the misery! I like this world!"


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Ijoinedbecausecovid said:


> ... or they are suffering some form of delusion that the vaccine ...turns them into a liberal.


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## Dleg

txjennah PE said:


> The vaccines have been so good that we forget that their main purpose was preventing severe illness and death in the first place. Breakthrough cases were always expected. The fact that the vaccines seemed to be lowering chances of transmission (at least with the other variants, not so much Delta) was just icing on the cake.


Exactly! So few people understand what vaccines do. Any vaccine.


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## Dothracki PE

@beccabun PE I was just saying we need some vaccine propaganda to educate the people and Baltimore, of all places, is on it! https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/08/13/baltimore-health-department-memes-covid/


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## Supe

Don't look at me that way, pet horse. See you when I get back from Vegas.


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## txjennah PE

I need the half laugh/half cry emoji for these memes.


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## Dleg




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## matt267 PE

Dleg said:


> View attachment 23460


This seems to sum things up. I think I've lost all hope in most people. I don't have a good long term outlook for society.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

txjennah PE said:


> I need the half laugh/half cry emoji for these memes.


I present to you, the lolsob...
(From LOLsob | Know Your Meme )


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## Dothracki PE

Biden announces new vaccine mandates that could cover 100 million Americans


President Joe Biden on Thursday imposed stringent new vaccine rules on federal workers, large employers and health care staff in a sweeping attempt to contain the latest surge of Covid-19.




www.cnn.com


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## Dleg




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## snickerd3

Been back at the office ft for about 2.5 weeks. My face is not agreeing with the daily mask wearing. I already use sensitive skin laundry soap and change masks every day...but my cheeks are rashing out.


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## Supe

One thing I saw at the anime con with my daughter was several costumers wearing clear plastic masks so that it wouldn't hide their makeup. They look like only three points of contact, since they're worn like a pair of glass and rest on the ears/bridge of the nose. Maybe something like that is worth a shot since it gives a bit of a gap and isn't abrasive like the fabric masks are.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

Supe said:


> One thing I saw at the anime con with my daughter was several costumers wearing clear plastic masks so that it wouldn't hide their makeup. They look like only three points of contact, since they're worn like a pair of glass and rest on the ears/bridge of the nose. Maybe something like that is worth a shot since it gives a bit of a gap and isn't abrasive like the fabric masks are.


Do you mean a face shield? I know some places that require masks say that face shields don't count.


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## Supe

jean15paul_PE said:


> Do you mean a face shield? I know some places that require masks say that face shields don't count.


These things, which probably offer about as much coverage as the average surgical mask.



https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Transparent-Plastic-Durable-Contact/dp/B08ND1FQGG


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## blybrook PE

Supe said:


> These things, which probably offer about as much coverage as the average surgical mask.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Transparent-Plastic-Durable-Contact/dp/B08ND1FQGG


I've seen folks wearing this type being told to change their mask or fail to fly. It isn't a mask. It's a modified shield.


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## wilheldp_PE

blybrook PE said:


> I've seen folks wearing this type being told to change their mask or fail to fly. It isn't a mask. It's a modified shield.


Neck gaiters, bandanas, and a few other types of masks aren't approved for air travel either. I just flew, and saw the gate agent make a guy that looked to be wearing a standard cloth mask change to a surgical mask. I didn't hear the explanation of what was wrong with the one he was wearing, though.


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## txjennah PE

My husband has to wear a clear face mask for one of his classes, since he has a hearing-impaired student.


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE

wilheldp_PE said:


> Neck gaiters, bandanas, and a few other types of masks aren't approved for air travel either. I just flew, and saw the gate agent make a guy that looked to be wearing a standard cloth mask change to a surgical mask. I didn't hear the explanation of what was wrong with the one he was wearing, though.


Pretty sure masks with valves are also not approved. Could have been a cloth mask with a valve?


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## Supe

I'm sure extensive research was performed in establishing acceptable mask criteria, especially by the TSA...


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## blybrook PE

Yeah, I get hell for wearing a half face respirator through TSA because of the exhaust valve. NO issues at ticketing, check-in, or boarding gate. Get stopped at TSA and typically once on board by a curious attendant. IF you double mask (or put a KN95 inside the respirator to block free flow of air out the valve like I do), you can wear any mask that has an exhaust valve; just be prepared to explain it to the attendants.

On my recent flight to Guam, wore the respirator on Delta from LAX to HNL without question; an hour into the Delta flight from HNL to GUM; had to get the captain involved over my mask. Captain was satisfied, I was written up by the attendant but I wore my respirator and there were no further issues. Same flight and nearly all of the return flights, at least a dozen people immediately around me wearing chin straps, bandannas, neck gators or other cheap masks with valves and weren't questioned or told to wear the mask properly once. All personnel on the flight had to be either vaccinated or have a recent negative test to fly (or both).

The rules are not properly enforced by anyone, nor have the mask types been adequately tested by the powers that be.


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## Dleg

The logic is fairly straightforward to understand as engineers: the purpose of the mask is to catch droplets / aerosols from your breath. So basically a filter. That's why face shields really don't do jack, and exhaust valves defeat the entire purpose. Exhaust valves are on respirators designed for YOUR protection, ie. to protect you against poison gases you only need filtration on the inhale, not the exhale. But with an infectious disease, you need it on both inhale and exhale. 

The restrictions on bandanas and neck gaiters are probably a result of some published studies last year that showed they hardly did anything at all for capturing aerosols, while the standard 3-layer disposal surgical masks performed better than anything (which shouldn't be a surprise because that's what they are designed for - to prevent the health care worker from infecting patients).


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## Dothracki PE

That's quite an overreaction...









Carmine's Hostess Attacked After Asking Tourists for Vaccination Proof to Dine Inside


A hostess at a well-known New York City restaurant was attacked just for asking to see a group’s proof of COVID vaccination, a requirement to dine inside in the city.




www.nbcnewyork.com


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## txjennah PE

Dothracki PE said:


> That's quite an overreaction...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carmine's Hostess Attacked After Asking Tourists for Vaccination Proof to Dine Inside
> 
> 
> A hostess at a well-known New York City restaurant was attacked just for asking to see a group’s proof of COVID vaccination, a requirement to dine inside in the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


Texas continues to embarrass the shit out of me


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## Dleg




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## Dleg




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## DLD PE

My dad had emergency gall bladder surgery couple of months ago. He ended up doing quite well, but it was scary at first because the hospital was way understaffed and my dad had to wait 8 hours to get seen. Can't imagine living in a small town with no doctor available.


----------



## Dothracki PE

Hospital officials: Long Beach Emergency Care Facility to close due to vaccine-related staff shortages


Officials say more than 99% of Mount Sinai South Nassau's staff are fully vaccinated, not counting those who sought religious or medical exemptions.



bronx.news12.com


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## Dothracki PE

Interesting to hear that there is a significant side effect found in some male teenagers after the second dose of the mRNA vaccines. CDC is still stating for children to get vaccinated. It seems the side effects are treatable. 









COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov


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## Supe

The scary thing about myocarditis is that it's got a 10-15% recurrence rate, and can lead to dilated cardiomyopathy, which becomes life threatening.


----------



## txjennah PE

Heart-inflammation risk from Pfizer COVID vaccine is very low


Two studies from Israel quantify the risk of myocarditis following the Pfizer–BioNTech shot, with one suggesting the chance of developing the condition is about one in 50,000.




www.nature.com


----------



## DLD PE

txjennah PE said:


> Heart-inflammation risk from Pfizer COVID vaccine is very low
> 
> 
> Two studies from Israel quantify the risk of myocarditis following the Pfizer–BioNTech shot, with one suggesting the chance of developing the condition is about one in 50,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com


They obviously never tested people waiting on their exam results.


----------



## snickerd3

I wonder if there is a family history of heart disease in those that do develop the myocarditis side effect.


----------



## Platypus Engineer

DuranDuran PE said:


> They obviously never tested people waiting on their exam results.


Unless u knew u failed when test was over then results release doesnt matter.


----------



## Dothracki PE

NYC mayor looking to implement mandatory full vaccination of all private-sector workers in addition to the current mandates on city workers, healthcare workers, and school employees and students.









NYC Expands Vaccine Mandate to Whole Private Sector, Ups Dose Proof to 2 and Adds Kids 5-11


Mayor Bill de Blasio announced the expansion Monday amid yet another COVID surge driving case rates up across the five boroughs.




www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## dannypeng

Hey 


Road Guy said:


> ^ - I was about to order some of the "real ones: (for the wife) but I see they are sold out!
> 
> I personally (large head) like the ones that have the straps that go all the way around your head as compared to the KN95's that drape around the ears ( interms of just regular comfort) - glad I bought I box as Ive got to go to phoneix next week..
> 
> Ive seen these at Lowes, home depot and target (denver area) not medical grade but I figure better than my webelos bandana / neckerchief
> 
> View attachment 19023


I think your N95 masks are not individually packaged, which is easy to cause pollution. Recently, I was doing business in China , and there has just been a covid outbreak here. So I found this brand and bought a few boxes of kn95 masks. The most important thing is: each piece of the mask has its own Packaging, check this photo: or you can order some from them: Protective Face Mask


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