# Government or Privae Industry?



## cocoloco (Apr 22, 2008)

So we are all taking this PE exam, etc. For most people at least in the Facilities (MEP) scene, a PE is important. Now having said that, for the Government, unless you are going to apply for a supervisory position or a GS13 (not a technical GS13) it dont matter squat whether or not you have the PE. I know from 1st hand experience. The Government does indeed offer a much better benefits package than does private industry it seems (the pay may be a little lower but benefits are better- from health insurance, to life insurance to 401K contribution. I took a private industry job recently and left a 83,000 position expecting this job to be more financially rewarding. It's not. I think my cocoloco head will consider going back to under Uncle Sam's wing- that BIG wing. What do you think?


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## SSmith (Apr 22, 2008)

I think that if the recession hits as hard as some are predicting, then the stability your good uncle offers would be worth a lot methinks.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 22, 2008)

Coco, it may be hard getting back under the wing of Uncle Sugar. You may have lept before you looked.


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## SSmith (Apr 22, 2008)

Here is a good thread that talks about the Pros/Cons between the 2. Well worth reading IMHO.

Government job v.s. Private sector job

Hope that helps!


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## maryannette (Apr 22, 2008)

cocoloco said:


> ... for the Government, unless you are going to apply for a supervisory position or a GS13 (not a technical GS13) it dont matter squat whether or not you have the PE.


I disagree. My position is not supervisory, but PE is viewed as a beneficial credential. Engineers who are not currently licensed are planning to take PE.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 22, 2008)

Personally, I'd go with the Pirate industry.

YARRRRRRR!


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## jproctor6 (Apr 22, 2008)

cocoloco said:


> So we are all taking this PE exam, etc. For most people at least in the Facilities (MEP) scene, a PE is important. Now having said that, for the Government, unless you are going to apply for a supervisory position or a GS13 (not a technical GS13) it dont matter squat whether or not you have the PE. I know from 1st hand experience. The Government does indeed offer a much better benefits package than does private industry it seems (the pay may be a little lower but benefits are better- from health insurance, to life insurance to 401K contribution. I took a private industry job recently and left a 83,000 position expecting this job to be more financially rewarding. It's not. I think my cocoloco head will consider going back to under Uncle Sam's wing- that BIG wing. What do you think?


I've worked in both federal service and private industry and will give you my 2 cents. My intent is not to paint either with a broad brush. This is just my individual impression which may be totally uncharacteristic so take it for what it's worth.

I spent the first 5 years of my professional career with the federal government and then made the switch to private industry for purely financial reasons. The initial pay hike was substantial and for many years whenever someone asked me if I missed my old job I'd reply, "Every day except pay day."

However, as I've matured (wife, kids, mortgage, etc...) and as my industry evolved (off shoring, downsizing, etc...) I've come to a few realizations:

#1. My old job was important, fulfilling and steady.

#2. The starting salary was low but the raises were predictable and cost of living increases came each and every year, so even though I was climbing slowly at least I never fell down a rung in terms of relative annual salary.

#3. There was far less competition since "years of service" trumped everything. This did impact productivity but certainly cut down on the office politics and backstabbing.

#4. The stress was far less. (This is a relative assessment. There was stress but it was productive not superficial and destructive.)

#5. I was actually encouraged to use all of my vacation time. Imagine that!

#6. Retirement and health benefits were roughly analogous to what is offered in private industry assuming you manage to hold your private job long enough to retire, which is a huge assumption.

#7. When I compare my present salary to my counterparts in similar federal service with roughly the same number of total years of experience that I have now then the salary gap is trivial.

#8. In short, I was a bit impatient. Had I stuck around the monetary compensation would have eventually come but I wouldn't have enjoyed the same years of savings I've managed to accumulate in private industry. Though one does learn to live on what one earns so that may not be an entirely fair statement.

#9. Chasing profit for a private company (unless it's your own) is often not as fulfilling as the government work I was doing.

#10. Once you resign from federal service it can be difficult to get back in.

If I could go back in time and advise my younger self I'd probably say "There’s much more to life than money. Engineers don't get rich anyway. Just seek out stable, meaningful work. Oh, and quit using those darn credit cards!" ;-)


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## DrivingSideways (Apr 22, 2008)

I worked in private industry for 5 yrs before making the switch to local government 4 years ago. For all of the drawbacks of public service work (work ethic of some individuals can be frustrating, little to no accountabililty - basically, you can skate by if that's your thing), I love it. I find myself very fulfilled and never bored. The pay is reliable and very good as well.

As far as the PE goes, I work for the Engineering division of a Public Works Dept, and if you don't pursue your PE, I think people look down upon you. You just won't get promotions and you will remain stagnant. And that is fine for some people.


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## IlPadrino (Apr 22, 2008)

mary said:


> I disagree. My position is not supervisory, but PE is viewed as a beneficial credential. Engineers who are not currently licensed are planning to take PE.


Mary,

What do you mean by "viewed as a beneficial credential"? My take is either it's a requirement for the job or it isn't. If it isn't, there's not much incentive to getting the PE unless you're looking down the road to a different job or promotion that requires it. Most of the jobs that require the PE (at least in the Navy from my perspective) seem to be supervisory. Still, I guess there's no telling how much a PE influences the selection process especially as all other things are hardly ever equal.

But you've got me curious - I'm going to an informal...


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 22, 2008)

When I was with the DoD, the PE didn't get you anything, except for snickers behind your back for putting effort into something that got you nothing (at least in the gov).


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## maryannette (Apr 22, 2008)

IlPadrino said:


> What do you mean by "viewed as a beneficial credential"?


I'm pretty sure that it helped me negotiate a higher salary. Also, as mentioned, if you want any supervisory responsibility, you need the PE.


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## ccollet (Apr 22, 2008)

its a pretty easy choice money-wise in NY, as the private sector pays at least 25%-30% more than the government.

i


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## cocoloco (Apr 22, 2008)

jproctor6 said:


> #10. Once you resign from federal service it can be difficult to get back in.



Interesting, thanks for the reply- I have known a few guys that tried the private sector and went back to Government. Judging by the demand for Engineers these days I would think that would not be too much of an issue, but thats just me, I havent applied yet.

Capt Worley- I had to leap, it was for family reasons. 

SSmith- that is exactly what has got me thinking about going back to government (DoD).

wilheldp- Good one.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 22, 2008)

cocoloco said:


> Capt Worley- I had to leap, it was for family reasons.


Came out a lot harsher than I meant it. Sorry.


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## cocoloco (Apr 22, 2008)

Not problem at all.


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## Dleg (Apr 22, 2008)

Excellent points by jproctor6.

I worked in the private sector for many years before going to work for state government. In my state, our salaries have been frozen for several years now, and our benefits are eroding. After I got my PE and was not compensated for it monetarily (I have been given more responsibility and respect, though), I was sorely tempted to leave for private sector work. For various reasons, I didn't.

I am now starting to think more along the lines of jproctor.

I can give you guys a sneak preview of life in a major recession. Where I live, we've been in a recession since about 1998. It has gotten so bad int he past two years that it's almost what I would call a depression. There simply is no reliable private-sector work out there. I consider myself lucky as hell to have a decent-paying job with good benefits. Sure there are occasional opportunities, and there are a few private firms eeking by, but they have to constantly lay people off to make it through the lulls between work. And, most of their work is federally-funded construction projects, anyway. Private sector money is spent far more sparingly, and if they have the option of using cheaper labor, including engineers, they do it. We have a guest worker program that GW supposedly wants to emulate for the US. Private sector relies on that now to fill engineering positions with foreign workers at $3.55 an hour. I am not exaggerating.

So, I'm pretty happy considering that I want to stay here. Plus, there's all the benefits of working in a fulfilling job, sleeping well at night, good working hours, and low stress. If I could get a federal job, which would pay far better and have much better benefits, I would jump on it.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2008)

This is a good discussion. As a former DOD employee and current state employee I can say I have been looking from the inside out for quite some time. While I am not disgusted with my job, I am also not satisfied for many different reasons - not just pay. Most days I feel like a glorified fact checker where my company (agency) RATIONALIZES underemployment/little-to-no reward due to the fact that I have CHOSEN to work under less-than-desirable conditions.

There are pros/cons to any job. You really need to make a detailed list - as detailed as possible and weigh the pros and cons. For me, the pros are weighing out to a private industry job but then again I am (will be soon) single, license in hand, completely mobile, looking to expand my horizon! My chosen area of expertise (environmental remediation) is a rapidly dying field. The slow bleed in the field will continue as more resources will need to be dedicated towards CRITICAL items - public infrastructure, energy, etc.

I am not only looking for a new job but a slightly different focus within my profession. I still WANT to be an engineer - I just need to be doing something different.



cocoloco said:


> I took a private industry job recently and left a 83,000 position expecting this job to be more financially rewarding. It's not. I think my cocoloco head will consider going back to under Uncle Sam's wing- that BIG wing. What do you think?


I think it is a big question mark - I think there are many variables to consider. Perhaps your singular point - more financial reward - should be extended towards other factors like job security, job satisfaction, balance between personal life and work, etc. When you look at it again with a broader approach, how does it look?



SSmith said:


> I think that if the recession hits as hard as some are predicting, then the stability your good uncle offers would be worth a lot methinks.


There is some validity to that statement but I can say that I know of local, state, and federal jobs that are being cut as a response to reductions in budgets. In the famous words of our president, "There is a breakdown at ALL levels of government" - I am at least seeing that within my little piece of the pie.

Do I believe that any of the gubmint folks are MORE susceptible to job loss than private industry? Absolutely not - but you cannot take it as a foregone conclusion that you will not be cut loose. Not to mention you could always be relegated to a very unfavorable position in favor of keeping you on board.

Excellent blog about pros and cons of Private vs. Public sector work!



jproctor6 said:


> I've worked in both federal service and private industry and will give you my 2 cents.


Those are excellent observations! :thumbs: I would only add that for some agencies (e.g. federal govt) there is some truth to what you are saying. I can say unequivocally that folks in my agency have been saying for the past seven years that things HAVE to get better in terms of pay/promotions. I don't see relief on the horizon because the bottom line is that there seems to always be someone who is willing to work/settle for less pay if the conditions are right. Not to mention that my state's legislature is using the premise of 'extraordinary financial crises' as justification to deny pay raises or substantially improve the pay for what was already a disproportionately unfair system of pay.



Capt Worley PE said:


> When I was with the DoD, the PE didn't get you anything, except for snickers behind your back for putting effort into something that got you nothing (at least in the gov).


Did you end up taking anything else from behind while with the DOD?? :Locolaugh: :Locolaugh:



Dleg said:


> So, I'm pretty happy considering that I want to stay here. Plus, there's all the benefits of working in a fulfilling job, sleeping well at night, good working hours, and low stress. If I could get a federal job, which would pay far better and have much better benefits, I would jump on it.


Definitely you have CONSIDERABLE balancing considerations based on location and family. You are probably in the 'best you can do' situation based on your market. I wish you could pick up a fed job though - they would easily give you an extra 30% bump in pay! Especially considering that you are doing the work of at LEAST three people.

:2cents:

JR


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## maryannette (Apr 23, 2008)

This reminds me of threads in the past about balancing finances, family, self, etc. Everybody has different priorities. Everybody has to make a desicion based on THEIR life.


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 23, 2008)

jregieng said:


> Did you end up taking anything else from behind while with the DOD?? :Locolaugh: :Locolaugh:


On some days it felt like that.

I have to admit that when I left the DoD, I hated the area I lived in, and hated the job, which was going to get much worse. Plus, it was 1995, and it was quite clear what Clinton was doing to the DoD (talk about getting it from behind), so I bailed. The branch where I started in 1989 had 24 engineers. Two years after I left, it was down to four, including the supervisor.


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## rudy (Apr 23, 2008)

SSmith said:


> Here is a good thread that talks about the Pros/Cons between the 2. Well worth reading IMHO.
> Government job v.s. Private sector job
> 
> Hope that helps!


Thank you for sharing. I'm in the private sector. But if I ever wanted to move, it sounds like a federal job is the way to go. I've been looking (just to compare) at city and state jobs and sad to say, but the pay is somewhat low. That's just comparing pay. I agree with others that several other factors will contribute to a decision to move... unless I'm kicked out.


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## rudy (Apr 23, 2008)

jregieng said:


> but then again I am (will be soon) single


nooooo jregieng, say it isn't so. i'm so sorry about that.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2008)

^^^ Thanks for the thought hun!! 

In actuality, my impending divorce turns out to be a positive move - I can move on to a better life. 

JR


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## PEPG (May 1, 2008)

ccollet said:


> its a pretty easy choice money-wise in NY, as the private sector pays at least 25%-30% more than the government.
> i


I am in a "government job" - and started low salary wise . I worked many years in the private sector before starting with the MTA (New York) in 1999. If you can manage to jump around within the organization, you can do OK. I am not rich, and I don't see "rich" in my future, but the benefits you can't put dollars on are as follows

1. I eat dinner with my wife and children EVERY evening, and my weekends are MINE

2. I have 5 weeks vacation that I am ENCOURAGED to take every year.

3. I have awesome health, dental, vision benefits.

4. Great pension in addition to 401k.

5. Nearly recession proof

The above is way, way more valuable than 25 -30% more salary.


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## cocoloco (May 6, 2008)

Thanks for the post.


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## IndyIllini (Jun 10, 2008)

Private


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## awdturboiv (Jun 11, 2008)

PEPG said:


> 1. I eat dinner with my wife and children EVERY evening, and my weekends are MINE2. I have 5 weeks vacation that I am ENCOURAGED to take every year.
> 
> 3. I have awesome health, dental, vision benefits.
> 
> ...


I completely agree, and could not be happier. It is a different mindset working for the public well being, instead of making someone else rich!


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## Road Guy (Jun 11, 2008)

I was in consuling for 10 years, wanted a change, took a job overseeing construction for an aggressive large local government that puts out a lot of work for a county government.

Part of my decision was that it has accelerated my carreer in terms of contacts, and experience, and the thought is that even taking 10% less money wise, I would be much further ahead if I go back into consulting in say 5-7 years, from where if I stayed in consulting for the same period of time.

I wouldnt want to be in any lower position than what I am in now, its a daily fire drill, which I kind of like. My wife actually thought I would have more time off leaving the consulting world, but its been the other way around, I have actually been busier the past year than I have in any of my previous consulting gigs, plus folks call you at 2 AM when "stuff happens" Yuo can tell my posting has gone WAY down the last year or so 

I took a hit on vacation, I had 4 weeks, went down to 2, guess the government doesnt negotiate, only 1 more holiday than I did in private life, their isnt any 401K match, no bonus, etc. But all in all I am pretty happy. Its a lot more "problem solving" than I did grunting out plans and actually a lot more closer to what i thought civil engineering would be when I was in college.

If you are at about 5-10 years experience and can find the right local goverment (ours pay well) its really been a suprising challenge. There are not many that I would have considered working for though to be honest.


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