# Just got an NCEES email saying October PE exams are canceled.



## akyip

Looks like all that effort into my Bible binder just went down the drain!!!

Anyone else got this email? Thoughts? Opinions?

As the topic title mentioned, I just received an email from NCEES stating that:

"NCEES has accelerated the PE Electrical and Computer Power exam transition to computer-based testing (CBT). All examinees who are currently registered to take this exam in October will be canceled and automatically provided a full refund of their exam registration fee so they can immediately register for the computer-based exam."


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## EE-Engineer

Just the same email. it sucks, now we gotta change how to approach the exam when it comes to studying.


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## MildlyMotivated

I just got the email too.  Just as disappointing to me is that the CBT can't be taken until December 1st.   I was ready to be done with it in 10 weeks after studying so long.

But I guess it's better than the test being cancelled a week or two before the exam and then being left in limbo.


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## akyip

Now we really need to print out the CBT reference handbook and get used to it.

Zach Stone had a video review about it (which he shared on this board) and some glaring things are a lack of coverage about certain topics such as protection and codes/standards. That really concerns me.


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## Dothracki PE

On one hand, I am glad that I have a little more time. On the other hand, I now have to worry about having a sub-par reference sheet and my wife and I were planning on moving at the beginning of the year.


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## Sparky Bill PE

As someone that has over 400 hours b/w April exam and this exam already, I want to say you're not alone. If you need to private message me and have a cry fest or a vent fest I"m here. No one that has had this done to them can understand what we are going through. If you were a first time test taker like me and April and had this happened to you twice then I understand. 

Love you guys, lets keep our heads up and lets dominate this exam on computer. 

We won't ever give up. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP.


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## DilutedAr18_PE

Been studying for this damn test for over a year and now they change the format of the test with the last two exams I have been registered for being cancelled. What a load of garbage. Their reference manual is significantly lacking in formulas and information on typical problem types based on their own exam specifications and sample exam! NCEES gets to toy with and hinder people's career advancement opportunities with no oversight or repercussions. It's ridiculous.


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## Rajan

CBT is not going to be easy. I think we should all send email to NCEES to let us use at least our own formula book. I spend over a year just to make a formula book.


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## ME->EE

I just sent an email to NCEES and I suggest everyone else do the same:
 

"Hi,

I recently learned that the October PE test for Electrical Power was cancelled and that it will be immediately transitioned to CBT.  Can this please be reconsidered?  Myself and many others have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars preparing to meet a standard that has now changed.  We have copious amounts of reference material that we've meticulously been creating with the expectation that we would be able to use it on the PE test. 

The transition to the CBT test will still put us in enclosed rooms at a desk with other people taking a test so there isn't any increased safety from not allowing a paper and pencil exam in an enclosed room at a desk with other people.

If large gatherings of people are not allowed could you instead allow the paper and pencil test in smaller testing environments?  

This PE test is a huge point in many people's careers and with now the last two tests being cancelled and people wasting thousands of dollars on buying material that can now no longer be used it seems that there should be an extraordinary effort made to allow a pencil and paper exam.

If CBT is the only way forward then can we bring in a USB with our references that we've spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours compiling?  The current setup of only allowing the provided codes and handbook does not mirror how engineering occurs in the real world.  All of my colleagues and I have personal notes that we reference extensively with hyperlinks and highlights and diagrams that we've put together to further explain things.  We never rely on memorizing formulas.

The current sub 100 page handbook is missing a huge chunk of information - Protection (the largest part of the exam) has no mention at all.  There are also a huge amount of missing formulas and concepts from the other material being tested.

I know this is a difficult time for your organization trying to juggle different restrictions nationally and internationally and it is a complex and difficult task - thank you for working through it.  The people who take the test are even further affected by the costs (financial, time, stress, professional) of having the exam be cancelled twice and switched to an entirely new format.

Please reach out if there is anything I can clarify or help explain - I absolutely want to help to make this easier on everyone.

Thank you,"


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## DarkLegion PE

What a buzzkill. I'm in NY and tried to register for the CBT exam after my pen and paper exam was cancelled. Apparently I have to go through the board again before I can schedule a date!


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## Rajan

ME-&gt;EE said:


> I just sent an email to NCEES and I suggest everyone else do the same:
> 
> 
> "Hi,
> 
> I recently learned that the October PE test for Electrical Power was cancelled and that it will be immediately transitioned to CBT.  Can this please be reconsidered?  Myself and many others have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars preparing to meet a standard that has now changed.  We have copious amounts of reference material that we've meticulously been creating with the expectation that we would be able to use it on the PE test.
> 
> The transition to the CBT test will still put us in enclosed rooms at a desk with other people taking a test so there isn't any increased safety from not allowing a paper and pencil exam in an enclosed room at a desk with other people.
> 
> If large gatherings of people are not allowed could you instead allow the paper and pencil test in smaller testing environments?
> 
> This PE test is a huge point in many people's careers and with now the last two tests being cancelled and people wasting thousands of dollars on buying material that can now no longer be used it seems that there should be an extraordinary effort made to allow a pencil and paper exam.
> 
> If CBT is the only way forward then can we bring in a USB with our references that we've spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours compiling?  The current setup of only allowing the provided codes and handbook does not mirror how engineering occurs in the real world.  All of my colleagues and I have personal notes that we reference extensively with hyperlinks and highlights and diagrams that we've put together to further explain things.  We never rely on memorizing formulas.
> 
> The current sub 100 page handbook is missing a huge chunk of information - Protection (the largest part of the exam) has no mention at all.  There are also a huge amount of missing formulas and concepts from the other material being tested.
> 
> I know this is a difficult time for your organization trying to juggle different restrictions nationally and internationally and it is a complex and difficult task - thank you for working through it.  The people who take the test are even further affected by the costs (financial, time, stress, professional) of having the exam be cancelled twice and switched to an entirely new format.
> 
> Please reach out if there is anything I can clarify or help explain - I absolutely want to help to make this easier on everyone.
> 
> Thank you,"


How do I send email to NCEES?  Is there an email address? Do I need to login?


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## Orchid PE

That sucks and I'm sorry that happened. Just remember that none of your studying was useless! You still learned important information that you'll use on the exam!


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## ME->EE

Rajan said:


> How do I send email to NCEES?  Is there an email address? Do I need to login?


Yeah if you log into your account and click on the question mark in the top right corner of your screen you'll find a way to send them a message.


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## Tokoyoshi

Rajan said:


> How do I send email to NCEES?  Is there an email address? Do I need to login?


Go to your NCEES account--&gt;click on your name on the upper right corner--&gt;support--&gt;This will open a small chat window--&gt;click "ASK"--&gt;select Exam--&gt;past your message. Vola!


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## Rajan

I got laid off last week and today I got this email. I told my kids that I will spend more time with them after my examination. Today I couldn't even look at their eyes.


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## pigking8190

Are they just cancelled the exam for Power only ? Because i just tried to register for CBT and noticed Electronics and Civil pencil exam still exist for this October.


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## Rajan

pigking8190 said:


> Are they just cancelled the exam for Power only ? Because i just tried to register for CBT and noticed Electronics and Civil pencil exam still exist for this October.


Yes!


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## Dothracki PE

pigking8190 said:


> Are they just cancelled the exam for Power only ? Because i just tried to register for CBT and noticed Electronics and Civil pencil exam still exist for this October.


Yes, it likely they sacrificed the power exam to try to salvage the other October exams because the power exam is ready for CBT testing.


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## MildlyMotivated

Rajan said:


> I got laid off last week and today I got this email. I told my kids that I will spend more time with them after my examination. Today I couldn't even look at their eyes.


Hello Rajan,

This might not help but there are often job listings for electrical engineers on the NRECA (rural electric cooperatives) website. I've called a few of these utilities and they struggle to get anyone to apply even though they pay well and have great benefits in my experience.  The downside is that these jobs are usually in the middle of nowhere but listings just outside large cities occasionally show up.  You can add an alert with the keyword "engineer" so it will email you anytime something new shows up.  

You can find the site at www.cooperative.com &gt; menu &gt; Co-op jobs

Good luck with the exam and I hope you find an even better job than you had before.


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## Rajan

MildlyMotivated said:


> Hello Rajan,
> 
> This might not help but there are often job listings for electrical engineers on the NRECA (rural electric cooperatives) website. I've called a few of these utilities and they struggle to get anyone to apply even though they pay well and have great benefits in my experience.  The downside is that these jobs are usually in the middle of nowhere but listings just outside large cities occasionally show up.  You can add an alert with the keyword "engineer" so it will email you anytime something new shows up.
> 
> You can find the site at www.cooperative.com &gt; menu &gt; Co-op jobs
> 
> Good luck with the exam and I hope you find an even better job than you had before.


Thank You!


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## Dude99

Are results available quicker with the CBT format?


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## Dothracki PE

Dude99 said:


> Are results available quicker with the CBT format?


Yes, the results are usually sent within 7-10 business days.


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## Novanian

Yeah not sure if I will sign up to take it December right away.

While knowledge of the concepts is the same, in a way, its a completely different exam. I will need to practice using the *PDF* document and that alone to solve practice problems now and pretend as if nothing else exists. Formulas that I may have written down because they are in a more "specialized / modified / derived" state are no longer a page tab away as well as conceptual data that has been increasing in depth and breadth from what I gather by comments here.

It will be even more important to read as much about the conceptual topics as before since now there are "Select ALL that Apply" which can lead to trickier outcomes.

Yes, I understand that if you truly know the content through and through, your references shouldn't have to carry you, but its a completely different game with a PDF document and not your own notes.. Basically memorization and learning is even more critical now because you can't just skim through your battery section and say, "Oh I kinda understand what this page says but I at least know where to find it if this question comes up". Now you must KNOW it.

I find it difficult to believe they are just going to leave the non-Code question's conceptual answers sitting in a PDF form when it comes to say, Machine Theory or System Stability but who knows.

I am not against an computerized exam, after all I took the FE on the computer and I had no issues with it given that it was general electrical engineering concepts that I spent years learning in college and practicing.

It is what it is though, if this is the only avenue to get it, then its all we got.


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## Rajan

Rajan said:


> How do I send email to NCEES?  Is there an email address? Do I need to login?


[SIZE=12pt]I got the one-line response. “CBT is open with appointments available starting December 1st.  You will not be allowed to bring in any type of reference material into a CBT exam”.[/SIZE]


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## speakeelsy PE

wonder if we should contact our state boards to put more pressure on NCEES?


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## BirdGrave

As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil &amp; paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.


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## Dothracki PE

BirdGrave said:


> As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil &amp; paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.


Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.


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## BirdGrave

Dothracki said:


> Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.


And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.

Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare. 

Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.


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## Rajan

speakeelsy said:


> wonder if we should contact our state boards to put more pressure on NCEES?


I am ready for that.


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## DilutedAr18_PE

BirdGrave said:


> And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.
> 
> Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare.
> 
> Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.


Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?


The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?

There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.


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## BirdGrave

DilutedAr18 said:


> Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?
> 
> 
> The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
> 
> There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.
> 
> If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.


Yes, I have.  No one knows if that is the final version that is going to pop up on your monitor in a testing center 5ish months from now.  Like all the other reference documents, it's going to be consistently evolving and amended.  And questions on the exams are thrown out if the review committee determines there was insufficient information to reasonably come to a correct answer.


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## Orchid PE

NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference.


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## Tim - formerly @ NCEES

Chattaneer PE said:


> NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference.


A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388

The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.


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## Orchid PE

Tim @ NCEES said:


> A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388
> 
> The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.


Awesome.


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## Orchid PE

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

*Question:*




*Answer given in the book:*




*Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:*




I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have *no displacement*. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and *are in phase*." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by *0°*" It would also be true if it said "The three *positive*-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.


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## Orchid PE

DilutedAr18 said:


> Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?
> 
> 
> The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
> 
> There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.
> 
> If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.


Not all questions they ask on the exam should be able to be answered using the reference book or code books. Some of it will need to just come from knowledge gained through experience.

But I do agree with you, there should be _at least_ one section dedicated to protection information. Even if it's just _general_ info on protection devices.


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## Rajan

WOW! CBT is expensive $375 + tax.


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## akyip

Chattaneer PE said:


> @Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> View attachment 18349
> 
> 
> *Answer given in the book:*
> 
> View attachment 18350
> 
> 
> *Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:*
> 
> View attachment 18351
> 
> 
> I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have *no displacement*. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and *are in phase*." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by *0°*" It would also be true if it said "The three *positive*-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."
> 
> However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.


I agree that Option A is wrong. As I have always known it, the zero-sequence components all have the same magnitude and *same angle.* The zero-sequence components do not have any displacements between each other.


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## Zach Stone P.E.

Chattaneer PE said:


> @Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> View attachment 18349
> 
> 
> *Answer given in the book:*
> 
> View attachment 18350
> 
> 
> *Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:*
> 
> View attachment 18351
> 
> 
> I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have *no displacement*. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and *are in phase*." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by *0°*" It would also be true if it said "The three *positive*-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."
> 
> However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.


Good catch.


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## speakeelsy PE

Rajan said:


> WOW! CBT is expensive $375 + tax.


yeah pencil and paper was only $350... though we're supposed to get a $25 refund if we sign up before January...not sure that's a great consolation prize for getting jerked around for a year, but whatever!



Chattaneer PE said:


> @Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> View attachment 18349
> 
> 
> *Answer given in the book:*
> 
> View attachment 18350
> 
> 
> *Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:*
> 
> View attachment 18351
> 
> 
> I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have *no displacement*. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and *are in phase*." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by *0°*" It would also be true if it said "The three *positive*-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."
> 
> However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.


A is definitely incorrect. zero sequence currents and voltages are equal in magnitude and angles. If C is incorrect, then A is incorrect. it shouldn't matter if they are currents or voltages.

Frustrating!!!


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## Tim - formerly @ NCEES

I passed along the comments and heard the following back from our exam development engineer and publications manager:

_This item was updated from the 2017 PE Power practice exam into an alternative item type (AIT).  Option A has now been revised to eliminate any confusion. You can see the revised version in the free preview on ncees.org._


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## Orchid PE

Just checked and it now says positive-sequence for Option A. That was a quick update!


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## TwistedLeague

akyip said:


> Looks like all that effort into my Bible binder just went down the drain!!!
> 
> Anyone else got this email? Thoughts? Opinions?
> 
> As the topic title mentioned, I just received an email from NCEES stating that:
> 
> "NCEES has accelerated the PE Electrical and Computer Power exam transition to computer-based testing (CBT). All examinees who are currently registered to take this exam in October will be canceled and automatically provided a full refund of their exam registration fee so they can immediately register for the computer-based exam."


Next time please mark this as PE Electrical. Here i am studying for the Civil Transpo exam and had a big ole heart attack and dirty pants because i read this header 

Edit: Apparently I'm blind and cant read that this was under the power forum. Carry on


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## Sparky Bill PE

TwistedLeague said:


> Next time please mark this as PE Electrical. Here i am studying for the Civil Transpo exam and had a big ole heart attack and dirty pants because i read this header
> 
> Edit: Apparently I'm blind and cant read that this was under the power forum. Carry on


Exactly. Imagine how we feel? I have a solid 8 months studying for this stupid test that I'll never get to use these 30+ books on.


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## Zach Stone P.E.

Tim @ NCEES said:


> I passed along the comments and heard the following back from our exam development engineer and publications manager:
> 
> _This item was updated from the 2017 PE Power practice exam into an alternative item type (AIT).  Option A has now been revised to eliminate any confusion. You can see the revised version in the free preview on ncees.org._


Hi @Tim @ NCEES, I've found a few mistakes in the new NCEES® Power PE Reference Manual for the CBT exam. One of them is a formula mistake with the variable in the wrong place that will result in a wrong answer for anyone that uses it.

Who can I can notify at NCEES to help bring this to the right persons attention?


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## Tim - formerly @ NCEES

Zach Stone said:


> Hi @Tim @ NCEES, I've found a few mistakes in the new NCEES® Power PE Reference Manual for the CBT exam. One of them is a formula mistake with the variable in the wrong place that will result in a wrong answer for anyone that uses it.
> 
> Who can I can notify at NCEES to help bring this to the right persons attention?


The best way to submit a comment is to use your MyNCEES account. Click the ? by your name in the upper right hand corner and then choose the "ask" option to submit a help ticket detailing your concerns.


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## Zach Stone P.E.

Tim @ NCEES said:


> The best way to submit a comment is to use your MyNCEES account. Click the ? by your name in the upper right hand corner and then choose the "ask" option to submit a help ticket detailing your concerns.


Thanks Tim, will do.


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## Mohammed Ahmed

Hi, 

I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES. 

The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)

but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get: 

Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C

then 

C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)

So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.

Is my analysis above correct?


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## speakeelsy PE

Mohammed Ahmed said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES.
> 
> The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)
> 
> but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get:
> 
> Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C
> 
> then
> 
> C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)
> 
> So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.
> 
> Is my analysis above correct?


Not totally sure on your question @Mohammed Ahmed but on page 63 they have a formula with the 2 in it under "the relationship between capacitive and reactive power".

No idea why they change notation and have Preactive in one spot and q in another spot and the MVAR in another spot? 

It's like they gave an intern a stack of books and said "copy paste formulas and diagrams for these topics into a file" 

I attempted to solve some problems with the handbook today, and it's just missing so many little things, or it uses really complex formulas for easy stuff - like the above situation.

I did send a feedback letter to NCEES and got a very concise response to my concerns, and that they are aware of the rumors that protection will be hard because it is not in the reference book.


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## Orchid PE

Mohammed Ahmed said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES.
> 
> The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)
> 
> but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get:
> 
> Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C
> 
> then
> 
> C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)
> 
> So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.
> 
> Is my analysis above correct?


Yes your math is correct, but you need to pay closer attention to what is specified in the reference book. Notice on page 65 it says "V_line is the *maximum *value of the sinusoid." For the other formula you were using V is assumed to be RMS. 

Remember




And




Substituting




That's my best guess as to how they arrived at their formula.


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## Mohammed Ahmed

Chattaneer PE said:


> Yes your math is correct, but you need to pay closer attention to what is specified in the reference book. Notice on page 65 it says "V_line is the *maximum *value of the sinusoid." For the other formula you were using V is assumed to be RMS.
> 
> Remember
> 
> View attachment 18416
> 
> 
> And
> 
> View attachment 18417
> 
> 
> Substituting
> 
> View attachment 18418
> 
> 
> That's my best guess as to how they arrived at their formula.


Thanks for clarification.. to avoid confusion I would recommend to mention in the equation Vmax instead of Vline.


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## MLbS

Hi everyone,

Should we print the NCEES Reference book out and using it for the exam? How about NFP70? I got two types of email, one of them said I should print it and bring it to the exam (Texas board) and another said I don't need to bring anything (NCEES). I really confuse? What we should to do? Thank you


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## Dothracki PE

Mbsamani said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Should we print the NCEES Reference book out and using it for the exam? How about NFP70? I got two types of email, one of them said I should print it and bring it to the exam (Texas board) and another said I don't need to bring anything (NCEES). I really confuse? What we should to do? Thank you


If I were you I would email NCEES stating that Texas is informing their applicants to print out material and bring it to the exam to confirm if that is an accurate statement or not. You should be given access to the reference book as well as NEC, NESC, and NFPA 70E in PDF format on the exam according to NCEES.


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## MLbS

Dothracki said:


> If I were you I would email NCEES stating that Texas is informing their applicants to print out material and bring it to the exam to confirm if that is an accurate statement or not. You should be given access to the reference book as well as NEC, NESC, and NFPA 70E in PDF format on the exam according to NCEES.


I got this email from NCEES about my concern.

Hello,Thank you for your email. This exam is computer based and a closed book exam. https://ncees.org/pe-electrical-and-computer-power-exam/The reference handbook will be provided to you at the testing center as a searchable document on the computer. Here is a copy of our Examinee Guide. Please review it before your exam.https://ncees.org/exams/examinee-guide/


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## Dothracki PE

Mbsamani said:


> I got this email from NCEES about my concern.
> 
> Hello,Thank you for your email. This exam is computer based and a closed book exam. https://ncees.org/pe-electrical-and-computer-power-exam/The reference handbook will be provided to you at the testing center as a searchable document on the computer. Here is a copy of our Examinee Guide. Please review it before your exam.https://ncees.org/exams/examinee-guide/


Correct, this is what the exam specifications state. https://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/Power-Dec-2020_CBT.pdf

Maybe Texas didn't get the memo about the change to closed book CBT?


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## Owism

Mbsamani said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Should we print the NCEES Reference book out and using it for the exam? How about NFP70? I got two types of email, one of them said I should print it and bring it to the exam (Texas board) and another said I don't need to bring anything (NCEES). I really confuse? What we should to do? Thank you


I printed both and put in a binder. you never know. Ive done practice questions where ive needed nfpa70


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## Owism

Dothracki said:


> Correct, this is what the exam specifications state. https://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/Power-Dec-2020_CBT.pdf
> 
> Maybe Texas didn't get the memo about the change to closed book CBT?


oh wow


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## Dilutedar18

Zach Stone said:


> Thanks Tim, will do.


Zach, did you ever hear back on these issues?


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## Zach Stone P.E.

Guest Dilutedar18 said:


> Zach, did you ever hear back on these issues?


Yes, I contacted NCEES per @Tim @ NCEES's instructions. They said they are working on revising issues.


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## Andres

This is a great community. I have a question about the NEC version to use during the exam.

If the 2020 NEC was released this year, we were able to still use the 2017 NEC for the exams administered in 2020.

If I schedule the exam on *December 2020* can I still use the 2017 NEC?

If I schedule the exam for *January 2021* does that mean that I have to get the 2020 NEC?


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## Dothracki PE

Guest Andres said:


> This is a great community. I have a question about the NEC version to use during the exam.
> 
> If the 2020 NEC was released this year, we were able to still use the 2017 NEC for the exams administered in 2020.
> 
> If I schedule the exam on *December 2020* can I still use the 2017 NEC?
> 
> If I schedule the exam for *January 2021* does that mean that I have to get the 2020 NEC?


Welcome to the EB. The NCEES specifications for the Electrical and Computer exams state "Codes and Standards Valid through September 2023" so the NEC 2017 will be used on the exam reference until that date. Unless the specifications are revised before then.


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## Dothracki PE

Check out the tutorials and demo on the website below, it demonstrates what the CBT exam will look like on the screen including references

https://ncees.org/exams/cbt/


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## User1

hi @vhab49_PE


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## nishan

So, CBT exam will be closed book exam in Texas? Confirmed already? That mean cant bring study reference materials? But can we search pdf on computer?

If yes, we need to practice by using pdf instead of hard copy book to easily find the location?

Anyone, want to see all study materials for PE electrical power and I am gathering study materials. Thanks.


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## LyceeFruit PE

nishan said:


> So, CBT exam will be closed book exam in Texas? Confirmed already? That mean cant bring study reference materials? But can we search pdf on computer?
> 
> If yes, we need to practice by using pdf instead of hard copy book to easily find the location?
> 
> Anyone, want to see all study materials for PE electrical power and I am gathering study materials. Thanks.


ALL CBT exams are closed book.

You cannot bring any books with you. This is all explained in the NCEES Examinee Guide on their website.


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