# Bad Conduct Discharge



## engneer20 (Jun 25, 2010)

I received a Bad Conduct Discharge from the Marine Corps for being AWOL. Since, I have worked towards an undergraduate degree in civil engineering. I am about to graduate and am wondering if this will affect me in any way? Knowledge is greatly appreciated.


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## maryannette (Jun 25, 2010)

I don't know for sure, and I'm not an expert in HR or hiring policies, but I would think that it will not have a significant negative effect on your career. Just my opinion.


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## Freon (Jun 25, 2010)

I have to agree with Sapper, you have what amounts to a federal felony conviction on your record. It may be a good time to write a letter to the Conveining Authority and Board of Naval Corrections. Show them how you turned your life around and request that your discharge be upgraded. But a punitive discharge is tough to upgrade, but I know of cases where it was done.

Freon

0302/0303/9624


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## IlPadrino (Jun 25, 2010)

SapperPE said:


> [My advice is to be open about it. Don't try to hide it, but then again don't flaunt it. Just be humble about it and frank, if it even comes up.


I suggest there's no reason to volunteer you were ever in the military... unless specifically asked, of course! If asked, you should always be truthful and Sapper's advice is spot on: be humble and frank. I wouldn't suggest a "I was railroaded" approach.


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## engneer20 (Jun 25, 2010)

Freon said:


> I have to agree with Sapper, you have what amounts to a federal felony conviction on your record. It may be a good time to write a letter to the Conveining Authority and Board of Naval Corrections. Show them how you turned your life around and request that your discharge be upgraded. But a punitive discharge is tough to upgrade, but I know of cases where it was done.
> Freon
> 
> 0302/0303/9624


I joined the marines out of a desire to accomplish something big, something I could be proud of, and gain discipline. Gaining discipline was the major reason that I joined the marines. I thought that it would instill in me a type of work ethic, It would make me a stronger, more determined person,man. Early on in bootcamp, as we were being taught, instructed on the proper way to kill a person, we were instructed to chant: kill!, kill!, kill! at the end of slides we were being shown. They showed dead enemy soldiers with kill wounds on their bodies, sometimes on their face. And at the end of each slide: kill, kill, kill. Being in that room was a surreal experience for me. I wasnt comfortable. It wasnt for me. I started having compassion. What if that person was innocent? What If? And that started to send me over the edge. I started thinking, what If i kill someone or participate in any way, well, I will be responsible to God for that death. I started thinking and thinking like that and well I guess, I kinda freaked out. So, on the last day of bootcamp, I had already decided, I had already made up my mind that I wasnt going to come back. So on the last day, I left BC and I had instructions or orders to return after ten days for more training. But I didnt return for an entire year. At the end of one year, I turned myself in at the Camp pendleton gates. I was court martialed and spent 38 days in jail.

My current view is this: My actions were short-sighted and I should have acted in a better way. But, I did not leaving my fellow marines behind during combat. I had not been assigned to combat yet and was not in a war zone. I did not desert my fellow marines.

I admire those who bravely fight for what they believe is right. We as men, have a responsibility to defend our families in time of conflict. I am not one, to pass on that responsibility to another while I do nothing. But to involve myself in a conflict that is not directly and overtly tied to the defense of my family is not an option for me and something I will not do.

What do you think about me and what I did? How would you feel about having me as a co-worker or fellow employee at an engineering company?


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## engneer20 (Jun 25, 2010)

IlPadrino said:


> SapperPE said:
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> > [My advice is to be open about it. Don't try to hide it, but then again don't flaunt it. Just be humble about it and frank, if it even comes up.
> ...


On job applications that I have seen, there is typically this question: "have you ever served in the military?" I plan to answer: No. Because my idea of service is an exchange where the other party receives a benefit. My time in the military benefited no one, probably except me. So as far as that question is worded, I cant say that I served. I did train though. I realize that I am getting technical and at the same time misleading someone to believe that I didnt go through marine corps bootcamp.

What do you think? Do you think that I would be wrong for this?


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## engneer20 (Jun 25, 2010)

SapperPE said:


> engneer20 said:
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> > I received a Bad Conduct Discharge from the Marine Corps for being AWOL. Since, I have worked towards an undergraduate degree in civil engineering. I am about to graduate and am wondering if this will affect me in any way? Knowledge is greatly appreciated.
> ...


How could I surmount it?


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## Freon (Jun 25, 2010)

engneer20,

You can't hide this thing. It is a felony conviction, pure and simple. Government work is out; almost every corporation does a back ground check these days also. Get a hold of a counsoler at the Board of Naval Corrections and try to get the discharged upgraded, otherwise you'll be working the night shift at a 7-11.


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## IlPadrino (Jun 25, 2010)

engneer20 said:


> On job applications that I have seen, there is typically this question: "have you ever served in the military?" I plan to answer: No.


No one here can tell you what to answer... but you're only fooling yourself if you think the honest answer to that question is "no". Don't try to "sea lawyer" your way out of this. If asked and you answer untruthfully, I'd think your chance for employment is about 0% if they find out.

Does a standard background check reveal a BCD?


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## FLBuff PE (Jun 25, 2010)

Just so that you know, engneer20, those three either served, are serving in the military, or work for the gubmint. Good and accurate advice is being offered.


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## engneer20 (Jun 26, 2010)

FLBuff PE said:


> Just so that you know, engneer20, those three either served, are serving in the military, or work for the gubmint. Good and accurate advice is being offered.


I agree, they are giving the best advice. Being truthful will take a load off my back, since I wont worry about if and when theyll find out the truth. I have nothing to hide.


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## engneer20 (Jun 26, 2010)

IlPadrino said:


> engneer20 said:
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> > On job applications that I have seen, there is typically this question: "have you ever served in the military?" I plan to answer: No.
> ...


I dont think it does, I dont know. Youre right, Ill be honest, Ill face this problem.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 28, 2010)

I would try to avoid applying for large corporations and don't lie. If they ask be truthful.

It isn't that hard to find out you were briefly in the Army/Marines and the disposition of your release. In fact the Military wants the public to know to discourage people from going AWOL.

You should have talked to a lawyer before you went AWOL and figured out some better options. I know when I was in guys would go AWOL for 30 days but come back right after and report for duty. The Army would basically slap their wrist discharge with a "Less Than Honorable Discharge" that after a certain number of years would change to Honorable, I don't know if they still do this or not.

Another idea might be to stay in school get a PHD/Masters and begin a teaching/instructor career. Many schools might hire you BECAUSE you went AWOL from the Marines.


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## Paul S (Jun 28, 2010)

Kephart, thanks for that response. I have been wondering what actually happens to people when this type of thing happens (people join and can't do the job for some reason)

I thank all of the great men and women that serve our country.

The question that I need to ask is, and I am not judging anyone, but how could you not know that soldier could equal killing?


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## Road Guy (Jun 29, 2010)

It could effect your ability to take the EIT / PE in several states, most ask if you have been in the military and what your discharge status was.


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## Kephart P.E. (Jun 29, 2010)

Paul,

I really don't know how someone doesn't believe joining the Army/Marines isn't going to include shooting people.

I will say this that the Marine Corp has 1 Basic Training and every Marine goes to it whether you are going to be a mechanic or a infantry soldier unlike the Army. I was infantry so I went to Basic Training at Ft Benning but if you are going into a non-Combat Arms job like Cook or Mechanic you go to a different basic training which is shorter.

As far as the chanting kill, kill etc. What they are trying to do is remove your hesitation to kill another human, even trained soldiers will hesitate even when the enemy is shooting at you it is human nature most of us have been raised our entire lives not to kill people.

Of course the way the Army/Marines do this is pretty intense and high stress so guys struggle with the sleep deprivation and physical exertion.


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## CPT PE (Jun 29, 2010)

engneer20 said:


> SapperPE said:
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engneer20,

My advice is

1. Try to get the discharge upgraded.

2. If the application asks about the military or any felony conviction state the truth. If you dont, and they find out, you will be terminated immediately.

3. If you get an interview, tell them out right. Be honest and contrite. No excuses, but let them know what you learned and how that will apply to the job you are interviewing for. If they like you, this will go a long way.

4. I would not apply for a government job or a job that contracts with the DOD (as they may require a security clearance that you cannot get).

When I worked in the private sector for small firms, that was not even asked in any interviews, but I think you should come right out with it.


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## engneer20 (Jun 29, 2010)

Paul S said:


> Kephart, thanks for that response. I have been wondering what actually happens to people when this type of thing happens (people join and can't do the job for some reason)
> I thank all of the great men and women that serve our country.
> 
> The question that I need to ask is, and I am not judging anyone, but how could you not know that soldier could equal killing?


Thats a good question. Boot camp forces you to come face to face with the prospect of killing a human being. Before that, I hadn't fully come face to face with it. I had a hollywood-movie type view of it in my mind from watching movies. Believe it or not, the reality that these are real people and the enormous responsibility that comes with it had not hit me until during bootcamp. I made the decision that I would be willing to kill only as a very last resort and only in self defense and in the defense of my family.


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## engneer20 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lt PE said:


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Thank you


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## engneer20 (Jun 29, 2010)

engneer20 said:


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You mean, let them know even if they dont ask?


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## CPT PE (Jun 30, 2010)

engneer20 said:


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I would....but that is a decision you'll have to make on your own.


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## engneer20 (Jun 30, 2010)

Lt PE said:


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I hear you. Maybe that is what I should do. And maybe that is the ONLY way that Ill ever find peace as far as in the workplace.

I really, really appreciate your input. Thank you for your kindness.


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## thebettersmith (Jul 21, 2010)

Marine - hopefully you will find peace in your heart - the merciful will receive mercy. You need to forgive yourself, Chief. All of us have much to repent for in this life. I wish you well.



engneer20 said:


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