# PE License? MS?



## Vepr (May 21, 2015)

Hello All,

New member here, I'm a Process Engineer (ChemE background) in the food/alcohol industry. I'm considering grabbing an MS in ChemE while I work, and/or pursuing a PE License.

How do these things compare/stack up? How valuable are they to someone under industrial exemption (ie me, as a process guy)?

Thanks very much!

Vepr


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## adamn185 PE (May 22, 2015)

I'm a ChemE in the same type of work (process but not not food/alcohol). I just did the PE. Wondering about masters programs too. Message me if you want and we can talk more, but the way I look at it is that these things can only help.


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## catinthehat (May 22, 2015)

Speaking from direct experience:

Many will tell you an MS and PE don't necessarily increase your pay or promote you to a higher title. I would agree completely. The benefits they do provide however are invaluable, and I attribute much of my very successful career to these two items, even 10 years out of school.

Regarding an MS – the program is all about what you put into it. Take your schooling seriously, take good notes, file everything away into hard bound binders you can refer back to years later. You will develop an engineering foundation that is going to put you ahead of 90% of your peers from the get go. Aside from the letters next to your name that help you stand out amongst a sea of engineers on job applications, an MS degree puts you in the drivers seat regarding career flexibility and job security. Industries come and go, the recession in 2008 was a great demonstrator. What’s hot and high paying in one sector of civil engineering may be on a serious downturn 5-10 years later. An MS keeps your options flexible, and an MS puts you on the path to diversify your skillset which always translates to job security, and in some cases salary increases if everything lines up right.

A PE, even under industrial exemption, is valuable in my opinion for similar reasons I stated above for an MS. Job security and flexibility is so critical in my mind when shaping your career path. I don’t know one engineer who started down one career path, and didn’t end up somewhere else 20 years later, oftentimes sooner. How many times in our life can we change how a stranger perceives us without even seeing our work when they hear we passed some standardized test that is loosely related to our profession? Perception is a powerful thing, and whether people like to admit it or not, a PE and MS make for a pretty darn good first impression. How good of an engineer you are tells the rest of the story. If an MS and/or PE helps you get a foot in the door and a chance to showcase what you’re made of, I’d say the effort has already paid for itself.

Good luck!


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## Vepr (May 22, 2015)

Awesome response Cat. Thanks!


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## Porter_ (May 23, 2015)

Great post catinthehat


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## KatyLied P.E. (May 24, 2015)

I would agree with catinthehat. I work in the utility industry. My workgroup's main focus is helping industrial customers be more efficient and productive (lab test for industrial processes, energy/air audits, keeping them informed of the latest technologies, etc.). I feel that the PE gives me more credibility when I work with these customers.


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## catinthehat (May 27, 2015)

Not a problem, it's always a pleasure when there's a chance I can give back to the community. These forums have been extremely helpful over the years.


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## adamn185 PE (Jun 7, 2015)

I've been going back and forth on this for 1.5 years, telling myself I would move forward once I got the PE out of the way. So, it's now out of the way and I still am struggling with this:

MS in engineering (or ME)

or

MBA

Ultimately I'd like to lead a group of engineers whether in my current organization, a different one, or perhaps my own consulting group.

One factor is that I can do an MBA locally and hence interact with and network with other students in person. For graduate school in engineering I would have to do an online program unless I want to quit my job and move (not really the best option right now, although the thought of going back to school full time and earning a PhD is pretty appealing at times). Online programs, are, well... Online. I know the quality is excellent but you don't get the person to person interaction that you do in a classroom.

I'd still need to do the GRE/GMAT or both :/

Thoughts on what would be ultimately more valuable?


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## cupojoe PE PMP (Jun 8, 2015)

adamn185 said:


> I've been going back and forth on this for 1.5 years, telling myself I would move forward once I got the PE out of the way. So, it's now out of the way and I still am struggling with this:
> 
> MS in engineering (or ME)
> 
> ...


After doing the PE I'm doing the MBA route, will hopefully graduate next December. I don't think an MS in Electrical will get me much. I am also going for the PMP cert. I figure that will give me advanced credentials on the technical path (PE), project management path (PMP), and big picture path (MBA). At least around here, the project management programs (and engineering management) are very similar to the MBA programs with project management classes that revolve around the PMBOK and PMP. If I can learn the PMBOK &amp; PMP on my own, I don't see the point in paying 700 $/credit hour for a class on the same subject. Also, if you go the MBA route, be realistic about your expectations of the program. It is not for everyone. I think anyone can come out of an MBA program with good grades and degree (especially from a non-top 10 uni), but the benefits are going to be in how well you sell it.

As for the GRE/GMAT, don't fret about it. Especially if you are going to a local unviersity in a working professional part time program, they are looking to make sure you will be successful more so than they are looking to be super exclusive (or at least that is how universities around here are). One Friday, a couple months after the PE, I decided I was finally going to take the GMAT. Looked online, they happened to have a time slot on Saturday, so I went to the library after work that day, picked up a book on the GMAT, read a little bit about each section of the test friday evening for a couple hours. Then woke up and took the test at 10am. It was more than enough to get into almost any program. Point being, if you are going to a local school, look to see what their admissions requirements are (and maybe talk to an advisor), so you can determine how much time/effort to put into studying for these exams. Much like the PE, you'll get a lot out of a couple hours and a lot out of 100+ hours, but probably not much benefit in between. YMMV.


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 8, 2015)

In my opinion, MBA's seem to be much more prevalent and don't tend to set you aside from the masses. That's not to say an MBA isn't valuable. It all depends on what you plan to do with it. Just getting it to "get it" really doesn't mean much IMO if it won't be used for anything. An MS on the other hand, will tend to set you aside from the technical crowd vs. going the mgmt/business route. Again, this is my opinion and I mean no disrespect to those with an MBA. I'm presently trying to finish out my MSEE degree with Michigan Tech (online) and it's literally one of the HARDEST things I've ever done. Will it get me an instant promotion at work? Certainly not. But for me, it's about wanting to build my portfolio and gain greater visibility in a competitive market should any other opportunities arise. The courses have been very applicable to both my previous job and my current job. So it has been interesting to be able to relate the material between work and school.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 8, 2015)

Why not get both an MS and an MBA 

More seriously, as a guy with an MSME and an MSEM, if I had to choose between them I would certainly choose to do only the MSME. Knight's logic pretty much covers why I would choose the technical degree over the management.


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## adamn185 PE (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess a year or so ago I decided on the MBA route for three reasons:

1. That the technical path would be covered by the PE like you suggested cupojoe. After all, it doesn't get much more "official" than PE, right?

2. That the MBA would differentiate me "big picture" wise more than an MS, similar again to your comment cupojoe.

3. That the MBA, at least if I do it locally, would be in person. I could make connections with other mostly young, up and coming professionals in the area. My area isn't exactly filled with easy opportunities to network like that. I'd prefer engineers, but meeting some others would be cool too.

The thing is that I don't feel a passion for business, while I am passionate about engineering. Maybe that's playing into what you were saying, knight, regarding seeing how the classes are applied. That's why a MS seems so much more appealing to me on a fundamental level. But, my end goal being to lead a group of engineers and the MS programs being all online... Perhaps the live MBA is better. They actually offer a focus in project management so was thinking that would be the way to go with that program.

To your comment Ramnares, I actually really like the combined MBA/MS programs, but there's nothing local. If I lived in the same area that I went to college in I'd jump on that option in a minute, it would be perfect, but I don't. Even if I did do that remotely, and/or travel, the out of state tuition is hefty and I think it would be a hard sell to human resources to foot 75% of the bill. At this stage in the game financial payback is a big consideration as opposed to undergrad.

For the GMAT, I saw that it's offered on an upcoming Friday... I was considering winging it. After the PE it seems less intimidating. I guess the GRE would be more intense, but I haven't really read up on it that much.


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 8, 2015)

It seems you've given this quite a bit of thought. I'll add some additional things to think about. When I was first starting out as a grad student, I too thought it would be more favorable to be on-campus. But attending class while working full-time with a family, proved to be more challenging than I anticipated with trying to find the time to make professor's office hours, meet w/ study groups, and the actual lectures themselves. I found the online experience to be much more accommodating for a working professional. I could watch the lectures at my leisure (or better yet, review them again as needed to reinforce concepts), didn't have to rush to a class lecture, and was still able to interface w/ the class/professor. It took a little more effort on my part initially, but I was quickly able to network with other students (more of the online variety) via social networking and such. Even now, I have quite a few acquaintances online where we can collaborate on homework and projects. Just another facet to consider.


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## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 9, 2015)

My MSME was on-campus. It was pretty torturous. Even with taking evening classes, working full-time made it extremely difficult. I would get in to work at 6:30 because I needed to be out by 3:30 to get to class by 5 (at least a 1 hour train ride from my job). This was before I was married and had my kid so I didn't have any of those pressures. Throughout the degree program I worked mainly on my own. Group work tended to drag on and a project that would take me 6 hours became a week-long activity. By the middle of the program I found a couple guys who were married and were serious about the program and we started a study group. That in itself was another major difficulty. I spent hours on campus, sometimes leaving 1AM (now with a 2-hour commute to get back home). We coordinated and would meet in the library or sometimes each other's apartment on the weekends.

My MSEM was online. Yes it was much easier being a non-technical degree but everything Fox said holds true. It was very accommodating. I could work at my own pace. Group work was easy to coordinate. Either we used Google chat as a group or Skyped as a group. If you needed to edit documents live we used Google docs. It's very akin to attending a telephone conference at work.

So why am I boring you with all this? The on-campus facet of the degree isn't nearly as important as some folks make it out to be. If you're a fairly independent individual, self-starter and all that then you don't need to be on-campus. If you need constant interaction with classmates and the Professor/Adviser then by all means go for it.


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## Road Guy (Jun 9, 2015)

I have a grad degree but I offer these thoughts:

Most of the best Project Managers I have met don't have any weird initials after their name.(PMP, LEED, etc). They have spent time working. They are usually found at work after hours.

Spend time doing real networking, becoming political (especially if your in civil), joining a chamber of commerce, getting active in their events and meeting the people who make decisions in your area. Be more active than just attending professional meetings. Be a speaker, committee member, work up to chair, etc..

In our profession the people that "win" the work will always make more than people that do the work..

Just food for thought that there are other ways to spend your free time and money that will have a much more lasting impact on your career than any goofy non state required initials after your name and not giving thousands to some overeducated institute of higher learning..

just a thought...


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## caley89 (Jun 11, 2015)

Road Guy said:


> I have a grad degree but I offer these thoughts:
> 
> Most of the best Project Managers I have met don't have any weird initials after their name.(PMP, LEED, etc). They have spent time working. They are usually found at work after hours.
> 
> ...




networking is a skill too often overlooked...doesn't hurt to keep your LinkedIn profile up to speed as well.


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## adamn185 PE (Jun 17, 2015)

Just an update. I decided the MBA is the best choice for me at this time. Nothing to say I won't delve into more engineering in the future. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for all the helpful advice.


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## Vepr (Jun 17, 2015)

Awesome. Good for you Adam.


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## DummyCivilEng (Jul 28, 2015)

Good for you, don't look back. When you are done with MBA, shift your focus on marketing, revenue generation, and bringing in the money. Forget about engineering.



adamn185 said:


> Just an update. I decided the MBA is the best choice for me at this time. Nothing to say I won't delve into more engineering in the future. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for all the helpful advice.


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