# Failed the first time around, (Help?)



## Spark-E (Aug 29, 2013)

I took the EE Power PE exam in April 2014 for NYS. I ended up not passing (51/80, see attached).

I don't know where to go or study from here. For example, what kind of problems would fall under "General Power Engineering: Special Topics"? That seems like my worst area of performance. I was particularly caught off guard on the Economics, I didn't think it was going to be on the exam for some reason. I felt really good about the morning session but in the afternoon I just felt like I was hit with a ton of bricks. Maybe I ate too much for lunch?

Before the latest test, I did the following:


FE/PE Review Class

3 Practice Exams (NCEES &amp; PPI provided)

Thorough NEC 2011 flagging and use during problem solving

PPI Power Reference Manual Review


Would it be worth it to buy the NESC? I've already spent a bit of money on the test, materials, and vacation time...this particular code is pretty expensive compared to other materials I've bought for such a small portion of the exam.

Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

http://imgur.com/ebCsEvH (results)


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## solomonb (Aug 29, 2013)

OK-- here is what I would do. Go to NCEES and review the test protocol for the test that you took. All of the subject areas and weights are indicated there. Take a good hard look at each area, each sub area and make sure that you know how to solve all of the problems.

I cannot comment on your preparation or how you studied-- I don't know. However, the diagnostic suggests that you need to do a lot more studying in most of the areas. Now, review the protocol to see what is contained in each area. Make damn sure that you know how to do each problem type-- really know how and understand each subject area. I would do this for about 3 weeks at a time and then plan on taking the exam in April. You need more preparation than you have time for now in order to sit for the October 13 examination.

Yes, the training material is expensive. This is an investment in your career future-- make it and don't think twice. Unfortunately, you have to take the exam again, however, let's get prepared and only have to take it one more time. Do NOT worry about what the passing score is. Your goal should be to get 100% correct-- if you do that, you will not have to worry about one or two problems that may stump you.

You can do this--this is not insurmountable. Review the test protocol, make damn sure that you know, really know all of the problems and what they are asking for. Remember, this is test to determine minimal competency-- the C- student. You can do this-- you graduated from college. I have great faith in your skills and abilities-- you will ace it the next time.


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## saberger_vt (Aug 29, 2013)

I have posted a set of bookmarks of stuff I found on the web. If you see some of my other posts, everyone studies differently. I know people who have spent oodles of money on test prep material or courses and did not make the cut the first time. Consider asking yourself the following question "how badly do I want this?".

There is a ton of useful information on the this board, use it! I spent two years gathering information from this board and from other websites. I specifically used the outline of subjects from the NCEES practice exam.

As solomonb stated, you can do this!


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## maryannette (Aug 29, 2013)

I agree with what they ^ said. You can do it!


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## knight1fox3 (Aug 30, 2013)

+1. As mentioned, a lot of good threads (some by me) in this sub-forum that list recommended reference material. If you think you might have trouble studying on your own, a review course might be another option. I took the online PE Power Review course offered by GA Tech based on feedback from others on this board. I was very happy with the course and would also highly recommend it to anyone looking to supplement their studying. Good luck!


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## apoollo13 (Sep 25, 2013)

The GA tech course was great but the real prize there is the instructor. He is able to answer questions with a relatively short turnaround (I tried not to bug him too much, saving it for when I was really stuck) and he really wants you to do well if you apply yourself.

As far as references go, I used:

graingers power systems analysis (some of it can get a bit too in depth, especially with the matrices)

electric machinery fundamentals by chapman is excellent for motors (i picked up a used copy of the 4th edition from amazon for like 45 bucks)

chelpati- i only bought volume 1, the examples at times were a bit in depth but were helpful

ieee buff book: relays and coordination- i actually discovered my office had this AFTER the exam. i really wish i had known about it because it is by far the best resource on relays relative to the exam.

mike holts instructional videos are priceless for the code. for some of the VD calcs they didn't include the reactance, but that was my only gripe (if you know you're supposed to do that anyway it's not a big deal... follow the examples in the nec handbook, then watch the videos)

camaras power reference manual- this is good just to have for the exam. it made for a good reference during the exam as a last resort option

i also highly recommend having a copy of the NEC handbook *AND* safety code with you when you sit for the exam

i should note that the one topic i couldn't find enough information on was electronics. that was a crapshoot. there are references out there for it, but it's hard to get one that narrows down what the exam is looking for. be able to answer the sample exam q's

i had the NCEES sample exam, full complex imaginary, spinup and camara exams and i did all of them. make sure you know how to answer the NCEES ones in your sleep. i wouldn't recommend sitting through and doing each one in 8 hour testing blocks like i did (that was ROUGH) but it is good to simulate the test as much as possible. keep track of your mistakes you made in each and if necessary work them into your binder.

my biggest recommendation to you would be to get a 4" binder and cram as much useful information you can with general formulas leading off each section. the key is being able to USE your binder during testing conditions. you want to be able to get to the information in there quick, so practice using it in testing conditions and add sheets into it as you study. i had each section tabbed along the right edge, and for each subtopic at the top and bottom i tabbed with these:

http://www.amazon.com/2-Inch-Assorted-Primary-Colors-24-Tabs/dp/B004I7HHSO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1380144149&amp;sr=8-5&amp;keywords=file+tabs

my practice exam scores fluctuated between 60-80%, with some being harder than others. when you sit for the exam you're going to run into something you haven't seen, but i feel like being prepared for that is half the battle.

hope that helps!


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## marwan (Sep 25, 2013)

apoollo13,

What is the title of the book you used for relays ?

thanks,


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## iahim (Sep 25, 2013)

apoollo13 said:


> i also highly recommend having a copy of the NEC handbook *AND* safety code with you when you sit for the exam


Apollo13,

Did you have a lot of questions on the exam that required the NESC? Weren't the notes from Ga Tech binder enough? I wasn't planning on buying it, based on what Mr. Lambert said in the Tech class. If I do buy it, should I get the Code or the Handbook. The Handbook seems to be much cheaper than the Code, but I couldn't tell if it includes the Code content, like the NEC Handbook.

Thanks for your help!


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## EEpowerOK (Sep 26, 2013)

iahim said:


> apoollo13 said:
> 
> 
> > i also highly recommend having a copy of the NEC handbook *AND* safety code with you when you sit for the exam
> ...


I took the test last Spring and there were no NESC questions


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## iahim (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks EEpowerOK! If there will be any questions on NESC, those will be easy points. I would hate to miss them because I don't have the code. But I also hate wasting $200 on a book I will never use again.


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## knight1fox3 (Sep 26, 2013)

I did not take a copy of NESC when I took the exam.


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## apoollo13 (Sep 26, 2013)

NCEES can take any topic from the list they provide. I know what you're talking about and I never understood why Lambert would say that in the video, especially when it's on the list. I've seen people state here that there have been some exams that have had engineering econ or ethics or lighting problems and others where it hasn't. The point is it's all fair game. For the NESC, I had a licensed PDF copy which I sent to the printers to get bound that we use at the office (before anybody asks, no, you absolutely cannot have mine). Think of it this way... if you have a presentation or a meeting, do you want to go in feeling prepared to explain anything or do you want to be nervous about your weaknesses?

marwan... I said in my original post what the name is.

I know that these books are expensive, but like someone said earlier you have to ask yourself how bad do you want it? I spent nearly $1,500 on books alone, but part of that was because my undergrad background was systems engineering and I had no formal training in electrical (I took the afternoon EIT session in industrial).

Also, use this forum. Chances are people have already asked a question you're asking.

One last piece of advice... you can find *ANYTHING* on google if you know how to use it properly. Think of it like a friend that you ask questions to, or someone that can find something you need. For example, "low voltage power factor correction capacitors," "rectifiers pdf," or "relays pdf." A sizable chunk of my studying was dedicated to googling topics for hours on end until I found some material that made a topic click. Some universities have slides or solutions for homework problems, for example. If I stumbled on a pdf I liked I'd immediately save it to my dropbox folder and if it made the cut I'd put it in my binder.

*I forgot to mention, I studied for 3-4 months. The last month I spent doing practice exams. Bear in mind my background... some people didn't have to take this long to prepare, whereas I was teaching myself things for the first time. Everyone studies differently, but at this point you really should be doing practice problems and incorporating your binder to them. Oh, and I came to the exam with a roller suitcase, 2 casios and a 1'x3' crate which I used as a makeshit bookshelf to put it next to my chair.

As a general note, people on this forum are trying to help you, but we will not jeopardize our license to do so. I got a lot of helpful advice from them, and now I'm trying to provide the same. There isn't much out there in the way of articulate test prep material for this exam, that's for sure.


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## iahim (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks Apollo13!


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## Spark-E (Dec 6, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I passed this time around!


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## AggieELEN (Dec 11, 2013)

Congrats Spark! Anything you did different this time around?


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## Redskinsdb21 (Dec 11, 2013)

iahim said:


> Thanks Apollo13!


They were 2 questions straight from NESC when I took it in April this year....it may cost to get it but if you dont you may regret it


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## daw4888 (Dec 11, 2013)

Redskinsdb21 said:


> iahim said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Apollo13!
> ...




You really dont need the NESC, I would just take the table of contents form the NESC. If you have the GTech binder, you will be fine.


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## Ship Wreck PE (Dec 11, 2013)

Redskinsdb21 said:


> iahim said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Apollo13!
> ...


The NESC was even more helpful in OCT 2013 exam.. There were also a bunch (more than 12) of NEC questions on the exam.I have been using the NEC for many years and some of them were still kind of tricky. If you are weak on the NEC question, I think a Mike Holt class might be the difference between you Passing and failing??? Just being able to lookup and find the answer does not mean it is the right answer in the NEC.


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## daw4888 (Dec 11, 2013)

Ship Wreck said:


> Redskinsdb21 said:
> 
> 
> > iahim said:
> ...


If you are going to study a code, put all of your time into studying the NEC. I would not put more then maybe a hour into looking over the NESC. If you understand what is covered, and what isn't (Mines for instance are NOT covered), then you should be ok. The table of contents is really all you need.


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## upchuckjunk PE (Dec 11, 2013)

I failed this fall, I agree with the folks about the code questions. There were a ton. I have been using the NEC for about 12 years now and missed a good half of them because they were on sections I don't ever touch.

I will take in the Spring again, but am going to invest in an NEC code study guide like this one from Complex Imaginary: http://www.compleximaginary.com/books/electrical-code-drill-book/

I was humbled by the information I didn't know.


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## shsweet28 (Dec 12, 2013)

I passed the Power exam in October, but the NEC questions in the afternoon section threw me off and had me worried. In fact I was only able to go back over the first fifteen problems after finishing the test in the afternoon before time expired because I had spent so much time looking up answers for NEC problems. I never use the NEC at my job and spent a very small amount of time looking at the NEC thinking I could just find the answers during the test.

Advice to future examinees, study and know the NEC so you can spend more time on the rest of the test.

I used the following references:

Electric Machinery and Power System Fundamentals by Chapman

Complex Imaginary practice test I &amp; II

NCEES Practice test

NEC 2011

Westinghouse Redbook (I didn't use this)

Spin Up free problems of the week

And a Binder Organized by sections from the NCEES outline with Equations, PDF's from the web, pages scanned from text books etc.. (This was my GO TO reference that I used for 99% of the test)


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## Spark-E (Jan 10, 2014)

AggieELEN said:


> Congrats Spark! Anything you did different this time around?




Yea, here's a copy/paste from another message:

I honestly didn't study as much as I did the previous time. I almost didn't even bother taking the test and only started really studying an hour or 2 every weekday, and between 10-16 hours on weekends. It was really tough to buckle down since it was summer and I kind of lost motivation to be honest. I remember looking out the window at beautiful days and hoping it was going to be worth it!

Maybe that helped me not get so stressed out about the test or something but I focused my efforts on the NCEES sample test. I barely cracked open the PPI sample exams. I purchased the NESC and figured that may have helped because I feel like I missed some questions on the NESC the first time around. My materials were the NEC 2011, PPI exam pack (reference book, sample exams, some other PPI book that I don't even recall using), the NESC, FE reference guide, MVA method paper, phase sequence explaination paper, ANSI device number listing. The 2 papers I mentioned you can find on this forum somewhere. I also had a bunch of reference material from a PE course I took a few years ago in preparation for the FE/PE exams. I felt that helped a bit too, by offering a different perspective on the material I was supposed to know.

I made absolutely sure I knew how to answer every single exam question in the NCEES sample exam, both using PU analysis and MVA method. I didn't know of the MVA method going into the exam the first time - it definitely saved time and helped me get points on questions I may have missed previously. If I couldn't solve a problem during review, I'd come to this website and try to someone with a solution. If it still wasn't clear, I'd post about it and ask about that particular question again for clarification. Once I had an answer, I'd revisit the question again at a later time, after a few days maybe, and make sure I still understood the question.

I also tried to remember the style of questions I didn't do well on the first time around. There were definitely some areas that I wasn't prepared for, and I was kind of caught off guard when I saw them the first time around. I focused on beefing up on those topics.

I also tried a technique on the afternoon session that may have helped. For whatever reason, when I first started I was having a lot of difficulty getting going. I wasn't able to pick up any steam and "get in the zone" if that makes any sense, I was having trouble focusing or finding the right answer. To help fix this, I skipped to the end of the exam and started working my way backward. I seemed to build up momentum and eventually, when I got back to the beginning of the exam where I was having issues with, I was able to answer those questions pretty easily. Maybe I just had to get some under my belt to build confidence or something, I don't know.

Someone also gave the advice that this test is only supposed to test the C/D grade student. If something doesn't click and doesn't jump out at you and you're stuck doing a bunch of number crunching, you're probably not doing the problem correctly.

I guess that's all I have for now. Try not to get caught up in too many different reference materials, that may add to the confusion. Anyway, good luck.


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## dayhunt85 (Mar 26, 2014)

Does anyone have the "phase sequence explaination paper" mentioned in the last post?


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