# Taking PE Exam in IL Before 4 years Experience



## dfmabn1 (Oct 25, 2010)

Hello All,

I graduated in May 2007. I would like to take the PE in IL in April 2011. I heard from several people that I can take the PE and pass it before the required 4 years experience. Then you get your license after 4 years experience. I also have a few friends who are also interested but have even less experience. Everywhere I look, it references the 4 years experience.

This is what I found from here:

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/apply/pe.asp

Examination for Licensure As a Professional Engineer

An application and application fee is valid for 3 years. If you are applying to retake

an examination, DO NOT submit a new application to the Department unless

your application has expired; contact Continental Testing Services, Inc. at

708-354-9911 for procedures to follow. If your application expired, you are

required to submit all documents listed below and satisfy the requirements in force

at the time of reapplication.

To qualify for the examination, you must satisfy education and experience

requirements prior to review by the Board. In addition, you must submit the

following documentation:

1. Supporting Document(s) for Education -- You must comply with one of the

following to substantiate your professional engineering education

qualifications:

a. You are a graduate with a baccalaureate degree from an ABET (EAC)

approved engineering curriculum and have acquired a *minimum of 4*

years of engineering experience after conferral of your bachelor of

science degree in engineering. An official transcript (abbreviated or

full) indicating baccalaureate degree awarded and conferral date

with school seal affixed, must be submitted; OR

The OR is for going to a non credited school or for foreign students.

Thanks for any help,

Nick


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## HerrKaLeun (Oct 25, 2010)

I think it is clear you need 4 years BEFORE applying. You may ask the department if you need clarification.

If I would do what "several people" have told me I could do, I'd be in prison by now 

The people you talked to may refer to a different state. Or to the time when they wrote the test. Some people at my work told me how the test rules were when they wrote the test. That was some years ago. Back then you could write the test right after school and if you passed you got your license 4 years later. Not anymore. Now In WI you need to have the 4 years before even applying to write the test.

*To my knowledge* you really need to have the 4 years experience on the day you apply. Realistically (if you don't get laid off in between) the day of the test you have at least 4.25 years of experience.

So you look at applying after spring 2011 and writing in fall 2011. But ask your state licensing board. Even someone replying here might give you the wrong information (including myself).


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## snickerd3 (Oct 25, 2010)

I've heard someone mention that before, but I have not found anything to proof it. It is still the 4yr requirement. Call/email the board to verify.


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## willsee (Oct 25, 2010)

In Illinois you can take it before the 4 years, you just aren't licensed until you meet the experience requirements.

I was asking if Kentucky would recognize the PE examination if I took it early in Illinois. Both the Kentucky/Illinois boards said it is fine.

Illinois just changed the requirements last year.

I suggest that you inquire with the Kentucky Board to determine if they have any problems.

Note: Until last year, if you had taken the exam early, Illinois would have required you to retake the exam after you met the requirements.

M. David Brim

Board Liaison

Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Division of Professional Regulation

3rd Floor/Design Unit

320 West Washington St.

Springfield, IL 62786


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## dfmabn1 (Oct 25, 2010)

w0cyru01 said:


> In Illinois you can take it before the 4 years, you just aren't licensed until you meet the experience requirements.
> I was asking if Kentucky would recognize the PE examination if I took it early in Illinois. Both the Kentucky/Illinois boards said it is fine.
> 
> Illinois just changed the requirements last year.
> ...


Thanks David. Is this anywhere in writing? I might just wait until next Fall to take it to make sure that I don't have any problems if I need to get the PE in any other states.


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## willsee (Oct 25, 2010)

dfmabn1 said:


> w0cyru01 said:
> 
> 
> > In Illinois you can take it before the 4 years, you just aren't licensed until you meet the experience requirements.
> ...


I'm not David Brim.

I emailed him asking about the experience requirements and taking the exam prior to having 3 years of experience in my case. My concern was whether or not Kentucky would honor me taking the PE exam in Illinois when applying for my license. The Kentucky board said it was fine.

Apparantly in Illinois until last year they would make you retake the PE exam if you took it (and passed) prior to having the experience. Now you just have to pass it once.


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## dfmabn1 (Oct 25, 2010)

[No message]


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## snickerd3 (Oct 25, 2010)

w0cyru01 said:


> dfmabn1 said:
> 
> 
> > w0cyru01 said:
> ...


I would still call the board to make certain, as the whole retaking the exam if you took it prior most likely refers to those people who took it in a state that allows you to sit for the exam early and then you want an IL license. You were not even allowed to sit for the exam in IL if you didn't have the 4 yrs experience. I know this from personal experience. At time of application deadlines I had 3 yrs 11.5 months of experience. They denied the request until my boss resubmitted the form two weeks later that then showed I had 4 yrs experience.


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## dfmabn1 (Oct 28, 2010)

For anyone interested. I emailed David and this was his response:

Pursuant to a change to the PE Act last year, Illinois will now allow applicants to sit for the exam prior to completion of the required courses.

If you have an ABET accredited EAC BS degree, you can sign up directly with CTS and NCEES (you must sign up with BOTH) to take the exam, and once passing the exam, submit a written application with the 4 years of experience to this Department in order to be licensed.

If you do not have an ABET EAC accredited degree, you must submit a written application to the Department for approval to sit for the exam and after the exam you must provide the 8 years of experience.

You can review the Act (the Rules and the application forms have not yet been updated) Sections 8, 10, 11.

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/WHO/pe.asp

M. David Brim

Board Liaison

Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Division of Professional Regulation

3rd Floor/Design Unit

320 West Washington St.

Springfield, IL 62786

________________________________________

From: Nick

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 11:36 AM

To: Brim, David

Subject: PE Illinois Exam Requirements

Hi David,

I’m interested in taking the Professional Engineers Exam for Illinois. I heard from several people that one could take the test before the minimum 4 years of experience after a Bachelor’s Degree was achieved. Is this true? I graduated in May of 2007 and would like to take the test in April 2011. I also work with a couple of people who are interested in taking the test even earlier than myself. If this is true, can you provide the written documentation?

Thanks for any help,

Nick


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## snickerd3 (Oct 28, 2010)

dfmabn1 said:


> For anyone interested. I emailed David and this was his response:
> 
> Pursuant to a change to the PE Act last year, Illinois will now allow applicants to sit for the exam prior to completion of the required courses.
> 
> ...


wow that will really add to the time it takes to get a license # from the state. Once you pass then they determine if you meet the qualifications. They used to do that all before so you basically got you license the same time as the results.

seems like a ploy to get more money...people who may not ever be worthy in the states eyes are spending hundreds of Dollars on a test. At least before you were guaranteed a license upon passing.


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## HerrKaLeun (Oct 28, 2010)

snickerd3 said:


> wow that will really add to the time it takes to get a license # from the state. Once you pass then they determine if you meet the qualifications. They used to do that all before so you basically got you license the same time as the results.
> seems like a ploy to get more money...people who may not ever be worthy in the states eyes are spending hundreds of Dollars on a test. At least before you were guaranteed a license upon passing.


I guess you never can make everyone happy and no matter what the licensing baord does, people will complain:

- it is NOT required to write the test before 4 years are over. So whoever isn't sure about meeting the requirements can jsut wait like in the old day.

- for everyone else it means less stress writing the test since that means I can write the test 2-3 times and it doesn't affect the time when I actually get my license a lot. I would have loved to write the test some years ago and then just wait my time to get the license.


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## snickerd3 (Oct 28, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > wow that will really add to the time it takes to get a license # from the state. Once you pass then they determine if you meet the qualifications. They used to do that all before so you basically got you license the same time as the results.
> ...


I'm not complaining it is just a little backwards from the regular train of thought for IL government agency.

But to play devil's advocate, the PE exam is the Principles and *PRACTICE* of engineering. If the test is allowed to be taken right out school, then wait four yrs for the license # you are defeating the point of the test.


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## HerrKaLeun (Oct 28, 2010)

snickerd3 said:


> I'm not complaining it is just a little backwards from the regular train of thought for IL government agency.
> But to play devil's advocate, the PE exam is the Principles and *PRACTICE* of engineering. If the test is allowed to be taken right out school, then wait four yrs for the license # you are defeating the point of the test.


Well, sure more practice helps you pass the test. but if you feel up to it, you can write it sooner - your own risk. nothing wrong with that.

In WI it used to be that you could write the PE at the same weekend as the FE, so any time after you graduated. some years ago they changed that to only write after ALL other requirements are met incl. 4 years experience.

If an engineer is smarter, why not let him write sooner? If my child is gifted it is allowed to skip grades too and some wunderkinder get their PhD at the age of 16. We shouldn't discourage that.


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## Kendis (Nov 24, 2010)

I didn't bother to read much of anyone else's reply, so your question might already have been answered, BUT:

I have first hand experience with this issue. I did not meet the required minimum four (4) years experience that the IDFPR application says you must have BEFORE applying to take the exam. I conversed with David Brim by email (who I saw mentioned in some posts below), who flat out told me I WOULD NOT be able to take the exam or even apply to take the exam until AFTER I had met the four years experience requirement.

HOWEVER, I sent in my application and it was approved by the Board. I took (and passed!) the exam in April 2010. I met the four year requirement in late May 2010 and received my PE license in August (no Board meetings over the summer until August).

So in summary, you DO NOT need four years (or eight years combined total) experience before taking (or applying to take) the exam. If you want some more proof, go and read the meeting minutes posted on the IDFPR website for the Board meetings. You will see there was some discussion between the Board and some IDFPR employees about this very issue and it was clarified to say that you can take the exam as soon as you graduate from your undergraduate institution.

GOOD LUCK!


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## Charlrgs (Dec 21, 2010)

Kendis said:


> I didn't bother to read much of anyone else's reply, so your question might already have been answered, BUT:
> I have first hand experience with this issue. I did not meet the required minimum four (4) years experience that the IDFPR application says you must have BEFORE applying to take the exam. I conversed with David Brim by email (who I saw mentioned in some posts below), who flat out told me I WOULD NOT be able to take the exam or even apply to take the exam until AFTER I had met the four years experience requirement.
> 
> HOWEVER, I sent in my application and it was approved by the Board. I took (and passed!) the exam in April 2010. I met the four year requirement in late May 2010 and received my PE license in August (no Board meetings over the summer until August).
> ...


I completely agree here. Same thing happened to me for the Oct. 2010 exam. I won't have my 4 years experience until next month, but I took the exam anyways without any problems from NCEES, CTS, or IDFPR. Still waiting for results, but IF I passed then I will have to apply for a license with the documentation of the experience.

Hope this helps!!


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## mk3381 (Jan 5, 2011)

So based on this and my own research it appears we can take the exam before having the 4 years experience. BUT, the question is will other states honor my Illinois PE when I try and get licensed there? I've heard that people in states that do it that way have a harder time gaining licensure in other states that are more strict.


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## willsee (Jan 6, 2011)

mk3381 said:


> So based on this and my own research it appears we can take the exam before having the 4 years experience. BUT, the question is will other states honor my Illinois PE when I try and get licensed there? I've heard that people in states that do it that way have a harder time gaining licensure in other states that are more strict.


I emailed the Kentucky board (since my firm is in Kentucky, I went to school/live in Kentucky) and they said it would be no problem applying for licensure after I had my 3 years of experience.


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## snickerd3 (Jan 6, 2011)

mk3381 said:


> So based on this and my own research it appears we can take the exam before having the 4 years experience. BUT, the question is will other states honor my Illinois PE when I try and get licensed there? I've heard that people in states that do it that way have a harder time gaining licensure in other states that are more strict.


Why would they have problems...even if you take the test early to will not get an IL license until the experience requirements are met. The date on the license is not the date you passed the test so how would others states even know you took the test early? unless you tell them that is


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## mk3381 (Jan 6, 2011)

snickerd3 said:


> mk3381 said:
> 
> 
> > So based on this and my own research it appears we can take the exam before having the 4 years experience. BUT, the question is will other states honor my Illinois PE when I try and get licensed there? I've heard that people in states that do it that way have a harder time gaining licensure in other states that are more strict.
> ...



I guess that depends on how the application looks. My boss has a friend from state that has the same policy as Illinois and he was unable to get licensed in Alabama because he took the PE exam before his 4 years of experience. On a seperate issue just to explain how different states can be, my coworker recently tried to get his PE license for Pennsylvania. He had worked for 8 years for a utility in Illinois that didn't require him to get his PE. When he came to our office (a consulting firm) he was required to get it so he took the FE in October and the PE in April (about a year ago) in Illinois. When he applied for is PE in Pennsylvania they wouldn't accept it because he didn't have 4 years between is FE and his PE.


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## snickerd3 (Jan 6, 2011)

mk3381 said:


> snickerd3 said:
> 
> 
> > mk3381 said:
> ...


wow manditory 4 yrs btwn the 2 tests. In IL you can take them on the same weekend...nuts if you ask me, but when I took my FE there were a whole group of guys doing just that.


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## jrem (Aug 17, 2012)

I found this thread after searching online for a while, thought I would add my email from David as well in case anyone else is looking for information on this topic.

Here is what he told me (I added the bold):



> Illinois allows sitting for the examinations based solely upon education. You may sign up with both NCEES and CTS to sit for the P&amp;P examination, but I must caution you: *If you take the examination early in Illinois, you may have problems being licensed in any other jurisdiction.* Until 2009, Illinois routinely denied licensure for anyone who took the examination early. With the change in the Act in 2009, now other states are not accepting the licensure of Illinois.
> 
> I highly suggest that you review any other jurisdiction that you might want to be licensed in, in the future, to find out if they have experience requirements before taking the examination.


If you think its worth it to take the Principles and Practice Exam (PE exam) right after school in order to have that info fresh in your mind then you should take it ASAP, but if you end up moving out of state you may have difficulties getting a new license. However, if you end up moving out of IL down the road I guess you can always retake the exam and pay the fees again.

Or, just wait until 4 years and then take it. Eliminates any future issues that could come up. Depends on how much confidence you have in your memory (or how much time you have to study).

Terms to help people find this thread (I had to try like 5 different phrases and 30 mins before finding this thread):

PE exam before 4 years of experience, PE exam right after college, PE exam right after FE exam, PE exam without 4 years of experience


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