# Qualifying Experience Criteria in Virginia



## tim1981 (Sep 29, 2012)

I am applying to take the PE in Virginia. I have my BS degree in Math, which is a related science and therefore requires 6 years of "qualifying experience" for licensure in Virginia. I spent 1.5 years working as a CAD designer at one firm, where I was given responsibilities similar to other recent grads who had majored in Engineering. I then switched companies and took another job as a designer 4.5 years ago, and have since gotten my EIT and taken some engineering classes working towards a master's.

I'm unsure how to document my 6 years of experience. Virginia's law specifically says that "drafting" is not considered qualifying experience, and the application asks for you to make a distinction between "Sub-Professional (non-qualifying)" and "Professional" experience, within the same company. At both jobs, I was hired to do "drafting and design." Early in my career, it was more drafting and less design, and now, like most PEs I know, I still do some drafting, but I'm more focused on the design.

The first job pushed me to learn engineering, but didn't have enough clients to give me any real opportunity to any real design. I definitely learned a lot in the support role I played there, though. My second job, where I work now, was more hesitant to give me opportunities to design since I was not, in their minds at the time, "PE track." I would say that the first year there I was basically the CAD bitch. Years 2-3 I spent bitching and complaining that I should have more responsibility, while working under the one guy at the company that agreed with me. Somewhere along the line they realized I was right and that I shouldn't be the CAD bitch, and for the past 1.5 years I've been firmly in the Engineering category.

My dilemma comes over how to quantify this. Virginia's application specifically asks for the number of months the experience should be considered "Sub-Professional (non-qualifying)" vs "Professional." Given that the law specifically says drafting is not qualifying experience, and I spent a portion of my career having my boss think that my job was to push buttons on the computer and make "drafting" happen, I feel like I need to claim some of it as non-qualifying. I know that some states make a distinction within the required number of years experience between "original design" and what is typical for entry level work. However, reading Virginia's law it looks like they are looking for all of the 6 years to be "qualifying experience." However, since I'm sure they expect most kids straight out of school are working under a senior engineer training them, they don't need it all to be "original design experience."

The distinction between drafting and design has never been clear to me. In both cases, you're working in some CAD software to create a set of documents that describes how something should be built. In the case of both the full time CAD designer and the recent engineering grad, you're working under a senior engineer who has the final say in decisions. I would say that I have always been focused primarily on the project, as opposed to the process, but my boss hasn't always realized this. My career might be summarized like this:

T-6 years: I have a Math degree, and I decided I don't want to teach. I guess I'll get a job doing CAD.

T-5 years: This is actually pretty interesting. Maybe I'll do this instead.

T-4.5 years: My company has no work. I need a new job.

T-4 years: WTF these guys don't even realize I have a college degree

T-3 years: HEY GUYS! FUCK YOU! I HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE! (meanwhile one guy is teaching me cool stuff). Starting around this time I start making calls on my own about how things should be designed, and the guy I'm working for is cool with it. However, our boss doesn't realize this, and assumes I am just inserting things into the computer like an idiot.

T-2 years: Still working under the one guy at the company who doesn't suck, I take some engineering classes at night

T-1.5 years: I take the FE exam

T-1 year: Title officially changed from "Designer" to "EIT", given some jobs not directly under another engineer

TL;DR My question is basically do I need to put all my experience as "qualifying" for Virginia or should I attempt to draw a line between working as someone's bitch and having real responsibilities.


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## Jaylaw_PE (Oct 1, 2012)

ask the guy you work for if he will sign off on the full amount of years you worked there. even if you were mostly 'just drafting' you must have occasionally glanced at and interpreted drawings, or done something 'engineery.' im not sure how the different states are but for me in illinois i dont think they were THAT picky about exactly what my experience was, then again i had 7 years when i only needed 4 so maybe they just figured it was enough


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## tim1981 (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for your reply. I looked closer at the VA law and found another section where it describes the qualifying experience as being progressive, with responsibilities growing over time. So I think it's a safe bet that they expect the first couple of years to be assisting senior engineers with drafting or whatever else, and they expect you to include that learning period in your qualifying experience. I'm just going to be honest about what I've done and see what they say.


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## deafodupe (Nov 10, 2012)

Try going to www.dpor.virginia.gov and contact someone to see if the experience counts. I'm not too sure about the Math degree. I think it requires an engineering degree from ABET certified schools. If it's a masters in engineering, it counts.


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## grj (Nov 20, 2012)

Most states are pretty clear on what qualifies as experience and what does not. If your work history consists of both qualifying and non-qualifying experience, you should indicate that using percentages. I know that you are eager to get you PE, but it is best not to lie or stretch the truth. Wait until the sum of you experience adds up to the required amount. Regardless if someone is willing to sign off or not, if you falsify information on your PE application, it could cost you your liscense many years down the road. Getting you liscense a couple years early is just not worth the risk of pernamently loosing it later on.

Example:

Engatement: 1

Time Worked: 1 year

Qualifying Experience 4.8 months

Notes: Work consisted of 40% engineering and 60% drafting at this engagement.


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## Lumber Jim (Nov 21, 2012)

When you say "design", were you doing engineering calculation and analysis, cad work, and then the boss signed off? If this is the case then I would consider this to be "engineering experience". "Progressive" experience, in my mind, means you start out as a being told what calculations to perform for the design and then, as time passes, you decide how to aproach the problem and what to "calculate". The Engineer that you work for checks your work from day one. For example, I started out being told what simple calculations to reference for making something new. Simple switched to more complex very quickly and as time passed and I gained experience I was allowed the liberty to modify and expand on how I analyzed the problem based on agreement from my boss (a PE). Based on what you have written, I would interpret your experience clock starting 1.5 years ago but this is my $.02 based on the limited information that you have provided so do some checking by making some phone calls.


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## ptatohed (Nov 21, 2012)

On my (CA) application, I called it "Design Drafting".


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