# I'd like to suggest to NCEES...



## BORICUAZO (Apr 14, 2008)

Knowing that NCEES agents monitor this website, I'd like to suggest the following:

1. At this time in the 21st century, NCEES must find a way to post our results in advance on their web site: "PASS" or "Failed".

2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 14, 2008)

> 2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


I don't know if I agree with that one. Design work doesn't start with the easiest task and work up to the hardest task. There are easy, challenging, and real difficult aspects to things all along the way. What you're proposing sounds like a round of Jeopardy!.


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## Casey (Apr 14, 2008)

VTEnviro said:


> I don't know if I agree with that one. Design work doesn't start with the easiest task and work up to the hardest task. There are easy, challenging, and real difficult aspects to things all along the way. *What you're proposing sounds like a round of Jeopardy!.*



Can I buy a vowel?


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## benbo (Apr 14, 2008)

Casey said:


> Can I buy a vowel?


I'm assuming either

A. That was a joke.

or

B. Your knowledge of engineering is better than your knowledge of Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune.


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## Vishal (Apr 14, 2008)

I had volunteered for grading/preparing the test (with NCEES). I couldn't make it this time, however from the email I got, the volunteers (for Civil PE) are meeting sometime May 15-16 for a workshop to set the passing score. I wonder why does it take that long (4 weeks) for them to meet, well logistical issues I guess.. I would personally like for them to meet earlier, since the meet is planned starting January so there is ample time for people to accomodate the dates in their schedule..

oh well, who cares what i think...


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## cement (Apr 14, 2008)

BORICUAZO said:


> 2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


I always thought that part of the evaluation was time management and judgement.


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## Casey (Apr 14, 2008)

benbo said:


> I'm assuming either A. That was a joke.
> 
> or
> 
> B. Your knowledge of engineering is better than your knowledge of Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune.


I don't think it is appropriate for you to be discussing exam answers in this forum.

You have been reported!


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 14, 2008)

Cement's right. Having the easy problems sprinkled throughout and how you respond to addressing the problems is a part of the test.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 14, 2008)

I worked both sections from 1 through 40. I think it is a waste of time to go all the way through the exam, flagging more difficult questions for working at the end. I work them all, then mark those that I either had to guess, or just didn't really understand. But I put an answer on my sheet regardless. If I had extra time, I go back to the marked problems and try to work through my issues on it. I feel that this way, there is no way I could be guessing on problems at the end of the exam. Then again, I had 45 extra minutes at the end of the first half, and 1h15m at the end of the 2nd...after I went back and reviewed difficult questions.


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## Tido (Apr 14, 2008)

I think time managment is very important. I did Q40 to Q1 in the morning (starting with the water resources) and Q1 to Q40 in the afternoon. If I see that I am spending more time in the question than I wanted, I jumped. During practice I stuck in some questions with this "macho" how can I miss this easy question mentality and never finished a single practice exam on time, including the NCEES ones. But during the real exam my strategy paid off by starting on Q40 becaused I breathed through the 8 question of WR/ENV and this builds your confidence. But if I followed my pratice habit I could spend a ton of time on one geotech question still I don't know how to solve it now forget about then.. I gladly accepted to put my spare time which was over an hour on making sure I answered others than stuck on this one. It was not a matter of time. I could have spend my whole hour on that question. In stead I decided not to do and left that question alone.


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## Brentum (Apr 14, 2008)

The time management part really hurt me. I completely ran out of time both sessions and had to guess a fair amount at the end so I at least had an answer for each before they called time.

I went in thinking I'd go through and do all the easy problems first and go back, but then I'd hit a problem that I -thought- I knew, but didn't really. And dickered away 15 or 20 minutes on a few of those. And would get mad at myself for not figuring it out, and not able to let it go and move on.

Maybe that's part of the point. If so, kudo because it bit me!

If I had enough time, there were probabaly around 5-6 I really didn't have a clue on in the morning, and maybe 7-8 I didn't have a clue on in the afternoon. I would have felt much better with 6 guesses in the morning and 8 guesses in the afternoon than 10-12 guesses in the morning and 15 guess in the afternoon because I ran out of time. I'd even look at the problem and think, "I'm pretty sure I know how to do that, but I want to get an answer for everything so I don't get caught with unanswered problems when they call time!" and didn't get back to it with enough time to work it. Frustrating!

I kept telling myself to skip it and move on, but couldn't make myself actually do that....

:brickwall:


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## Tido (Apr 14, 2008)

Brentum said:


> I kept telling myself to skip it and move on, but couldn't make myself actually do that....:brickwall:


That's the hard part! You are not alone all of us do it and I found out in my practice with NCCES sample exam. I finished only 17 out of the 20 on time and of those remaining three I could do 2 of them in just a minutes (that's a 10min saving and some moral booster), one even you don't need a minute if you know the concept, I mean you can calculate it in your head, it was that easy (this is not exaguration). But didn't get there. This has a huge repercussion at least for me. the more question you answer quickly and correctly, the more your mind relax and "think" it can solve anything. Also accept defeat. That was my problem, saying OK I can't solve this now or within this time (it may or may not be true but it rests your mind). I took a page from professional boxers: no matter how good you look unbeatable, there is somebody, somewhere, in some corner of the world that can beat you. That's how I learned. My biggest ago was my education..but I think I deflate that..

Good luck to you.


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## civil-nj (Apr 15, 2008)

I made my way through the exam in order, but circled anything I couldn't get quickly and kept going. I probably had about 10 circled in the AM and 8 circled in the PM. After getting through the entire exam, I had a lot of time left and used it to figure out as many of the tougher questions as possible. A few times, that meant I sat there and read short passages in a textbook or found sample problems to mimic in a topic I hadn't studied much. I picked up a few points that way, but I was only comfortable spending that time reading and looking for sample problems because I knew I had already gotten all of the "low hanging fruit."

I don't think I'd like having the questions presented in "easy to hard" order. I'd get really psyched out if I couldn't solve the "easy" problems, and it might affect my performance on the "harder" problems! Plus, my "easy" might be someone else's "hard," or vice versa, depending on what we studied and what our backgrounds are.


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## csb (Apr 15, 2008)

Vish said:


> I had volunteered for grading/preparing the test (with NCEES). I couldn't make it this time, however from the email I got, the volunteers (for Civil PE) are meeting sometime May 15-16 for a workshop to set the passing score. I wonder why does it take that long (4 weeks) for them to meet, well logistical issues I guess.. I would personally like for them to meet earlier, since the meet is planned starting January so there is ample time for people to accomodate the dates in their schedule..
> oh well, who cares what i think...



MAY 15th?!?! Here's my suggestion to NCESS:

MEET FREAKING SOONER!


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## MA_PE (Apr 15, 2008)

> 2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


Since the individual knowledge base of the test takers is variable, how could possibly so this? What might be "easy" for some people is "difficult" for others and vice-versa.

(also, for some people (who only tote along the CERM for casual reference) they're all easy so where would you start?)


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Apr 15, 2008)

> I worked both sections from 1 through 40. I think it is a waste of time to go all the way through the exam, flagging more difficult questions for working at the end.


I agree totally. There's no magic order to them. Do one, focus on it, move onto the next one. Come back if you have time. Better than wasting time jumping around randomly or assigned a rank to it.



> (also, for some people (who only tote along the CERM for casual reference) they're all easy so where would you start?)


With the stormwater modeling questions, obviously. If you can tackle the hardest topic in CE first, the rest is in the bag!


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## Capt Worley PE (Apr 15, 2008)

^^Yeah, but the first poster wanted the easiest first, so the stormwater modeling, which is the hardest thing in CE, would have to be the last questions on the test.


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## C-Dog (Apr 15, 2008)

BORICUAZO said:


> Knowing that NCEES agents monitor this website, I'd like to suggest the following:
> 2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


What is easy to you may be difficult for others and visa versa.


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## wilheldp_PE (Apr 15, 2008)

I think that if the NCEES is going to use this forum to track down cases of cheating and/or collusion, they should also contribute to the forum by answering questions about the exam. For instance, they could explain the thought process behind not holding a meeting to set the pass score until the middle of May. Or perhaps shed some more light on their determination of the passing score.

I really don't understand all of the secrecy surrounding the passing score. We are engineers, so we are naturally curious about the numbers behind something. It almost seems like they are trying to piss us off by withholding raw scores, curves, and now they won't even give us any type of score on the exam. I know that my letter from the Indiana board when I passed the FE had 78% written in pencil on the top of it. What harm would it do to officially include raw score, curved score, passing score, and pass rate on the letters?


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## DVINNY (Apr 15, 2008)

Capt Worley PE said:


> ^^Yeah, but the first poster wanted the easiest first, so the stormwater modeling, which is the hardest thing in CE, would have to be the last questions on the test.


:Locolaugh:


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## csb (Apr 15, 2008)

wilheldp said:


> I really don't understand all of the secrecy surrounding the passing score. We are engineers, so we are naturally curious about the numbers behind something. It almost seems like they are trying to piss us off by withholding raw scores, curves, and now they won't even give us any type of score on the exam. I know that my letter from the Indiana board when I passed the FE had 78% written in pencil on the top of it. What harm would it do to officially include raw score, curved score, passing score, and pass rate on the letters?



Hmm...that's funny, my board wrote "failed" on my letter....


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## MA_PE (Apr 15, 2008)

C-Dog said:


> What is easy to you may be difficult for others and visa versa.


Gosh. I wish I had said that.



> Since the individual knowledge base of the test takers is variable, how could possibly so this? What might be "easy" for some people is "difficult" for others and vice-versa.


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## EM_PS (Apr 15, 2008)

BORICUAZO said:


> Knowing that NCEES agents monitor this website, I'd like to suggest the following:
> 1. At this time in the 21st century, NCEES must find a way to post our results in advance on their web site: "PASS" or "Failed".
> 
> 2. Problems on the exam should be placed beginning with the easy ones, in order of difficulty from 1 to 40 (AM &amp; PM).


Agree on point 1, have problem w/ point 2. I do like problems sprinkled around - gives you a bit of a breather between complex 'set it up / draw a picture' type of probs, and the 5 - 10 second type of probs (I'm not talking PE exam). Plus, my gray matter kicks ass in the a.m., but by the p.m., its draggin' ass. If I knew as the test grinds on that my probs are only gonna get tuffer. . . I might as well sneak a half-pint of Beam in &amp; dull the pain!


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## IlPadrino (Apr 15, 2008)

wilheldp said:


> I think that if the NCEES is going to use this forum to track down cases of cheating and/or collusion, they should also contribute to the forum by answering questions about the exam. For instance, they could explain the thought process behind not holding a meeting to set the pass score until the middle of May. Or perhaps shed some more light on their determination of the passing score.


Well, if you really want to know, volunteer with NCEES. The link is on their website...


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## T_McK_PE (Apr 15, 2008)

Makes no difference to me - I look forward to the challenge!


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## PEPG (Apr 15, 2008)

VTEnviro said:


> I agree totally. There's no magic order to them. Do one, focus on it, move onto the next one. Come back if you have time. Better than wasting time jumping around randomly or assigned a rank to it.
> 
> 
> With the stormwater modeling questions, obviously. If you can tackle the hardest topic in CE first, the rest is in the bag!


I also agree. Acutally, I skipped an easy question which was one page away from a hard question. I did not remember I had skipped it until the 5 minute warning. Although it was easy, I was not able to finish it in less than 5 minutes, so I guessed.

Next time it will be 1 through 40 - no detours. (if there is a next time)


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## Techie_Junkie_PE_LEED_AP (May 2, 2008)

1. I agree.

2. Comon. You're supposed to be an Engineer. Figure it out!


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## C-Dog (May 2, 2008)

MA_PE said:


> Gosh. I wish I had said that.


I guess I should read all the post :screwloose:


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## MA_PE (May 2, 2008)

C-Dog said:


> I guess I should read all the post :screwloose:


Maybe you did and you were just plagiarizing on a subconcious level. :dunno:


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## DIZZEE (May 7, 2008)

I used the system that I read about (I am pretty sure on this forum). I took 6 or 7 minutes to read thru all the questions and rated them 1-3 and that worked great for me. For those preparing for the exam in October, hopfully I won't be joining you!, I think it is a personal preference. If you work the practice exams and feel that doing so could have helped, as I did, then do it. If not, don't.


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## Vishal (May 12, 2008)

I received my passing result on PTOE test recently and what I liked about it was that it included the questions that I responded correctly (in %'s) subject-wise. It also included what is the low %, High % and mean 5 on each subject. Then it gave the %'s for the scaled score. This is so transparent, why can't NCEES do this? It is not like breaching any security or anything. We pay some $200 for the test. I know it is for administering and scoring the test, but they don't have to generate the data, they already have it. Theu just don't publish it.

By having the %'s I could see where I stood compared to the high score and compared to the average score...

I know this will result in to nothing, but just wanted to put up the point.


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## al***vj (Jun 10, 2008)

Received letter. No score. Just "you passed".


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## IndyIllini (Jun 10, 2008)

Vish said:


> I received my passing result on PTOE test recently and what I liked about it was that it included the questions that I responded correctly (in %'s) subject-wise. It also included what is the low %, High % and mean 5 on each subject. Then it gave the %'s for the scaled score. This is so transparent, why can't NCEES do this? It is not like breaching any security or anything. We pay some $200 for the test. I know it is for administering and scoring the test, but they don't have to generate the data, they already have it. Theu just don't publish it.
> By having the %'s I could see where I stood compared to the high score and compared to the average score...
> 
> I know this will result in to nothing, but just wanted to put up the point.


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