# Just Submitted My Experience to NCEES



## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Which circle(s) of Hell should I be ready for?


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

I submitted mine on Dec 19th, and my boss got an email yesterday that it was ready for his review.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 2, 2020)

I kind of started the NCEES Record. But my direct supervisor was out. And it involved dealing with my college so I gave up and will start again in the next week or two


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Which circle(s) of Hell should I be ready for?


Are you applying for multi-state licensure?


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Are you applying for multi-state licensure?


Not just yet, but I (and my supervisors) want me to be ready to, if needed.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Not just yet, but I (and my supervisors) want me to be ready to, if needed.


Oh ok. Yeah I just submitted all my stuff today. Trying to get TN.


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Oh ok. Yeah I just submitted all my stuff today. Trying to get TN.


That would make sense, given your current location.


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Are you applying for multi-state licensure?


There's a handful of us who have to do it for initial licensure. *cries*


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> That would make sense, given your current location.


I got all the references, but now waiting on the work experience. I copied the project work I originally put on my FL application, but NCEES said I needed more detail. Funny how it passed the FBPE review, but not the NCEES review. So I expanded upon it today and resubmitted.


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> I got all the references, but now waiting on the work experience. I copied the project work I originally put on my FL application, but NCEES said I needed more detail. Funny how it passed the FBPE review, but not the NCEES review. So I expanded upon it today and resubmitted.


I tried to provide stupid amounts of detail, but who knows if that'll be sufficient, or if there will be some other, different details that they want to see.

:dunno:


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

MadamPirate said:


> There's a handful of us who have to do it for initial licensure. *cries*


Did you have to apply to anyone to take the exam?

I think I'd rather apply to a state board afterwards. I had to apply in FL beforehand, and I didn't get approved for the exam until Aug 21st. I had purchased all my materials and started studying before I even knew if I was approved for the exam.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> I tried to provide stupid amounts of detail, but who knows if that'll be sufficient, or if there will be some other, different details that they want to see.
> 
> :dunno:


In case anyone is reading this in the future, this is what NCEES told me to provide:

a. Include specific project details such as name, location, structure type, structure size, regulation compliance, project dates, and size of project.
b. Discuss your specific role in project design, implementation, and/or operation for each project. It is helpful to use phrases such as “I designed …”, “I calculated …”, “I developed …”, etc.


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## MechanicalGamecock (Jan 2, 2020)

I submitted all my transcripts/references/experience on 12/16. They must have sent out the review to my supervisors around Christmas time. My last supervisor confirmed on 12/30 and I sent my application to the state board (NC) the same day. Called the board this morning to confirm they received everything. The receptionist mentioned I should hear back (hopefully) by the 17th.


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Did you have to apply to anyone to take the exam?
> 
> I think I'd rather apply to a state board afterwards. I had to apply in FL beforehand, and I didn't get approved for the exam until Aug 21st. I had purchased all my materials and started studying before I even knew if I was approved for the exam.


Just pay NCEES. Colorado makes you read a thing that says you swear you have your 4 years of experience before you sit for the exam.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

MadamPirate said:


> Just pay NCEES. Colorado makes you read a thing that says you swear you have your 4 years of experience before you sit for the exam.


Did/do you have to do an ethics quiz/exam?


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> In case anyone is reading this in the future, this is what NCEES told me to provide:
> 
> a. Include specific project details such as name, location, structure type, structure size, regulation compliance, project dates, and size of project.
> b. Discuss your specific role in project design, implementation, and/or operation for each project. It is helpful to use phrases such as “I designed …”, “I calculated …”, “I developed …”, etc.


Yeah, mine's probably coming back... But for point a., not point b.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Yeah, mine's probably coming back... But for point a., not point b.


lol I pretty much only had point a when I first submitted, because that was all FBPE required.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 2, 2020)

I wish there was a "save as draft" option. So I don't have to keep retyping things.

I'm saving it to my desktop with the prompts now but still annoyed.

My hope is to just have my VT license but I wanna have NCEES records ready for when The Company says I must have others


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Did/do you have to do an ethics quiz/exam?


Nope. Colorado is easy AF to get licensed in.


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Yeah, mine's probably coming back... But for point a., not point b.


I have mine written out in a word doc - I can PM you the text if you'd like


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 2, 2020)

MadamPirate said:


> I have mine written out in a word doc - I can PM you the text if you'd like


I might take you up on that, but I'll see what NCEES has to say, first. I say it'll probably come back because I didn't specifically mention the size of things I worked on, nor did I include specific dates. The reviewers might not be too anal about it, but I doubt it.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 2, 2020)

i'm now worried i'm not detailed enough


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 2, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> i'm now worried i'm not detailed enough


I am happy to pimp out my descriptions


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 2, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> In case anyone is reading this in the future, this is what NCEES told me to provide:
> 
> a. Include specific project details such as name, location, structure type, structure size, regulation compliance, project dates, and size of project.
> b. Discuss your specific role in project design, implementation, and/or operation for each project. It is helpful to use phrases such as “I designed …”, “I calculated …”, “I developed …”, etc.


Very helpful.  Thank you!!


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## Michael Scott PE (Jan 3, 2020)

I started mine on 12/16 and the only thing left is for Indiana to verify my license.  Everything moved pretty quickly surprisingly.  All of my references were quick to sign off.  My supervisor verified my work experience yesterday afternoon and this morning NCEES marked that portion as approved.

My work experience wasn't super detailed.  It was a general overview of some projects I've been involved with, my roles, the year(s) the projects took place, project size (I'm primarily in renewable energy so I just shared MW), and end-results of the projects.  About 4-6 sentences for each project did the trick.


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 3, 2020)

Ok I have submitted my references.  I am almost done typing my experience.  I would say I started getting serious about working on my application Jan 3.  Let’s see how long it takes.  I’m guessing it will take until March before I have my stamp.


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 6, 2020)

My experience was approved by NCEES. It's a New Year's miracle!


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 6, 2020)

I’ve been waiting on them to approve my transcript since dec 20.  I think they are behind?  I’m sure a lot of people take off between Christmas and today.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 6, 2020)

My transcript got approved in like 2 days. I noticed this morning that it was approved.


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 7, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> My transcript got approved in like 2 days. I noticed this morning that it was approved.


Ok if it’s not approved by Friday I’m going to call


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## Orchid PE (Jan 7, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> Ok if it’s not approved by Friday I’m going to call


Did you do electronic or paper copies?


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 7, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Did you do electronic or paper copies?


Electronic


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 7, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> Ok if it’s not approved by Friday I’m going to call


Send them a note using the ? next to your name, like the transcript page says.
They got back to me the next morning.


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## Louisianeer (Jan 8, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> I’ve been waiting on them to approve my transcript since dec 20.  I think they are behind?  I’m sure a lot of people take off between Christmas and today.




I had the same issue, send them a message. Mine was verified a few hours after I bumped them about it


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 8, 2020)

Louisianeer said:


> I had the same issue, send them a message. Mine was verified a few hours after I bumped them about it


Ok I feel bad bothering them but I did send a polite inquiry today.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 8, 2020)

MadamPirate PE said:


> I am happy to pimp out my descriptions


I think I'm gonna take you up on that. I officially have to get my shit together. I need to apply to 3 other states for my client team


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 8, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I think I'm gonna take you up on that. I officially have to get my shit together. I need to apply to 3 other states for my client team


Sent in PM!


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 8, 2020)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Sent in PM!


this will probs get me ded'd in Mafia


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 8, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> this will probs get me ded'd in Mafia


sorrynotsorry?


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 8, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I think I'm gonna take you up on that. I officially have to get my shit together. I need to apply to 3 other states for my client team


Wow. That's a lot of licenses... Good luck.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 9, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> Wow. That's a lot of licenses... Good luck.


yeah... my hope for only 1 license didn't even last a month.

BUT it's good. I'm on a client team based out of HQ and HQ is letting some of the regional office teams take over some of the reviews &amp; sealing. And my regional office group is one of the teams that gets to do that. So it's good for my career. 

Edit: also my direct manager has 5 licenses, our civil team manager has 6-7?. I work in consulting - so if I left and went to a utility, I'd only keep one of those lol


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 9, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> Edit: also my direct manager has 5 licenses, our civil team manager has 6-7?. I work in consulting - so if I left and went to a utility, I'd only keep one of those lol


Yeah, my PM is licensed in at least 4 or 5 states, and could easily be licensed in 3-4 more if there weren't a bunch of people in other offices who could stamp things.

I know I'll eventually have a bunch of licenses, but it'll be at least a little while... And probably several years before I accumulate that many.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 9, 2020)

I had interviewed a few years back at an engineering firm, and one of the engineers I was interviewing with claimed he was licensed in all 50 states. It was an international engineering firm, so maybe he was telling the truth. I don't see why he would lie.

Can you imagine the amount of continuing education that guys does? Plus all the renewal fees? I'm sure the company pays for everything, but still. And for Florida, I know a certain number of hours have to in the Florida Building Code if someone is signing building plans. So some of his continuing education hours overlap, but some won't.

Maybe that's his sole purpose at the company lol Maybe he just does continuing education to maintain 50 licenses so the company can work in all states.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 9, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> I had interviewed a few years back at an engineering firm, and one of the engineers I was interviewing with claimed he was licensed in all 50 states. It was an international engineering firm, so maybe he was telling the truth. I don't see why he would lie.
> 
> Can you imagine the amount of continuing education that guys does? Plus all the renewal fees? I'm sure the company pays for everything, but still. And for Florida, I know a certain number of hours have to in the Florida Building Code if someone is signing building plans. So some of his continuing education hours overlap, but some won't.
> 
> Maybe that's his sole purpose at the company lol Maybe he just does continuing education to maintain 50 licenses so the company can work in all states.


I met someone last year who is licensed in 43 of the states. Plus I think a province or two.

His company is large enough that it's really unnecessary and I'm fairly certain that their office group doesn't do work in 43 states.

That's just way too much to keep track of and I'm a very organized person. No thank you. Particuarly with how picky some states are about PDHs (hi NYS), double no thank you


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Jan 9, 2020)

Crap, as of Jan 1, I officially have to start tracking my CPD hours.


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 9, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> yeah... my hope for only 1 license didn't even last a month.
> 
> BUT it's good. I'm on a client team based out of HQ and HQ is letting some of the regional office teams take over some of the reviews &amp; sealing. And my regional office group is one of the teams that gets to do that. So it's good for my career.
> 
> Edit: also my direct manager has 5 licenses, our civil team manager has 6-7?. I work in consulting - so if I left and went to a utility, I'd only keep one of those lol


My boss has 9. 

I think I'm going to be up for getting additional licenses here soon. The next least licensed person here has 4.


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 9, 2020)

Well my school says they sent my transcript and ncees keeps saying they don’t have it.  Does anyone else’s school use the third party National Student Clearing House?  It sends them a notification with a tracking number and ncees has to retrieve it.   I went to NC State.


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 9, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> Well my school says they sent my transcript and ncees keeps saying they don’t have it.  Does anyone else’s school use the third party National Student Clearing House?  It sends them a notification with a tracking number and ncees has to retrieve it.   I went to NC State.


Most every other service I've used sends you an email once NCEES has received it. Did you get an email like that?


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 9, 2020)

MadamPirate PE said:


> Most every other service I've used sends you an email once NCEES has received it. Did you get an email like that?


Yes, I did.  I called ncees and talked to a really nice lady today.  She called the school and an hour later it was approved


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 10, 2020)

My NCEES Record is ready to transmit! I have nowhere to transmit it... But it's ready!


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## Orchid PE (Jan 13, 2020)

Got everything approved. Surprisingly, the experience was approved by ncees last night. I guess they work Sunday nights lol

Just transmitted my records for a TN license. #2!

There goes another $370.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 13, 2020)

welp i feel like a slacker


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 13, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> There goes another $370.


That's a lot of coin.

That's $55 for the application fee, $75 for the Record transmittal, $140 for the registration fee, and... A crisp $100 bill with the application to get it moved to the front of the line? (I just looked into it a couple days ago.)


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## Orchid PE (Jan 13, 2020)

Will.I.Am PE said:


> That's a lot of coin.
> 
> That's $55 for the application fee, $75 for the Record transmittal, $140 for the registration fee, and... A crisp $100 bill with the application to get it moved to the front of the line? (I just looked into it a couple days ago.)


It was $175 for NCEES to transmit the record


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 13, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> It was $175 for NCEES to transmit the record


Oh yeah, it's an extra $100 the first time...


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## MadamPirate PE (Jan 13, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> It was $175 for NCEES to transmit the record


Hah, I found out it's only $100 for the first transmittal if it's for initial licensure, but they don't tell you that on the website.


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## JayKay PE (Jan 15, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> welp i feel like a slacker


Ditto.  I need to get this done (just for me to have the record), but I'm...very lazy.  And I don't need to stamp anything in government.  So, yeah?


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## Edgy Cheesy Graphite PE (Jan 15, 2020)

JayKay PE said:


> Ditto.  I need to get this done (just for me to have the record), but I'm...very lazy.  And I don't need to stamp anything in government.  So, yeah?


Doesn't it make sense to wait for you to "need" it? I thought work verifications and references expired after a year or something like that. ???


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## Will.I.Am PE (Jan 15, 2020)

jean15paul_PE said:


> Doesn't it make sense to wait for you to "need" it? I thought work verifications and references expired after a year or something like that. ???


It does. I did it because my employer brought it up and also, I wanted to go through it all once, so that I know how each element works.


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 22, 2020)

Got my experience approved.  Took 15 days.  Not bad but not as fast as some reported here.


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## Orchid PE (Jan 23, 2020)

Apparently the NCEES record wasn't enough for TN. They're now requiring me to submit more information on work experience and have my manager complete a reference form.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 23, 2020)

I'm still muddling through my work experience. But it's ok since I'm waiting on VT to return my email about my FE/EIT. Because I took it so long ago, it doesn't show up in my NCEES portal and I can't request verification of it through my VT portal...


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 23, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I'm still muddling through my work experience. But it's ok since I'm waiting on VT to return my email about my FE/EIT. Because I took it so long ago, it doesn't show up in my NCEES portal and I can't request verification of it through my VT portal...


Dang.  Hope they call you back soon.  I worked on my experience description in short spurts.  It was pretty tough because I’ve changed companies and a lot of my experience is based on what I can remember.  Probably took a week to write it


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## LyceeFruit PE (Jan 23, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> Dang.  Hope they call you back soon.  I worked on my experience description in short spurts.  It was pretty tough because I’ve changed companies and a lot of my experience is based on what I can remember.  Probably took a week to write it


I emailed since my experience calling VT previously wasn't great either. 

My work experience isn't terribly difficult - I've been at one company. I just hate writing and staring at computer screens for long periods of time so I'm doing it in bits &amp; pieces as well.


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## Wow_PE! (Jan 24, 2020)

should your contact information with ncees be your home address or work address?


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## Orchid PE (Jan 24, 2020)

Wow_PE! said:


> should your contact information with ncees be your home address or work address?


Depends on how many hours a week you work lol


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## LyceeFruit PE (Feb 4, 2020)

So I submitted my experience last week. I had two editors: a coworker and my best friend who does editing. 

I came in 6 words under the limit. And I got an email from NCEES with comments:

"Please revise PROJECTS section to include duration of involvement with each project. If the projects included do not span the entire duration of this record, please add addition projects along with your engineering tasks completed for each."

So do they want years? Like "I did project 1 for 5 years" or do they want "I did Project 1 from 2011-2016"? 

Because if I add in "2011-2016",  I'll have a "gap" on my record of  2 years. I still did work in that time but it was smaller projects that included the same tasks as the big projects I listed.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 4, 2020)

I used wording such as:


I worked on this project my entire time in this position

I worked on this project from Jan 2017 - Jan 2018

You could list the projects you worked on during the "gap" and say: I worked on these projects from MM/YYYY to MM/YYYY


I worked on Project 1 from Jan 2011 - Aug 2016

I worked on Projects 2, 3, 4, and 5 from Aug 2016 to Jul 2018

I worked on Project 6 from Jul 2018 - Present

You don't have to list _all_ your projects either. Just have to show that during your entire time you were gaining experience.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Feb 4, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> You don't have to list _all_ your projects either. Just have to show that during your entire time you were gaining experience.


I didn't list all of mine - there would be 100  projects (my internal resume is 6 pages).

I went with 4 big ones that showed knowledge, responsibility, and experience gains. 

But I somehow need to trim even more words to get additional projects in there to cover the last 8.5 years.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 4, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> I didn't list all of mine - there would be 100  projects (my internal resume is 6 pages).
> 
> I went with 4 big ones that showed knowledge, responsibility, and experience gains.
> 
> But I somehow need to trim even more words to get additional projects in there to cover the last 8.5 years.


Yeah. They're not interested in seeing just a few big projects. They want to see that you were actively engaged in engineering during your entire time in the role. 

So 5 smaller projects that span the entire time, trump 1 big project that lasted only a year.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Feb 4, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Yeah. They're not interest in seeing just a few big projects. They want to see that you were actively engaged in engineering during your entire time in the role.
> 
> So 5 smaller projects that span the entire time, trump 1 big project that lasted only a year.


One of the projects was a 5 year program I was involved in - so I lead with that as my experience grew there.

this is the downside of consulting, so many projects lol


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## Orchid PE (Feb 4, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> One of the projects was a 5 year program I was involved in - so I lead with that as my experience grew there.
> 
> this is the downside of consulting, so many projects lol


Since it's engineers that are reviewing this, I kept it very factual. Like, "[Project Name], [Location], [Project bullet points], [Project time-frame]"

Ex:

"Commercial Building Design for Stark Industries. Malibu, CA. This design was for a new 102-story commercial building, with 2.7 million sqft of office space. The design included lighting design and power distribution. The power distribution design included sizing overcurrent protection, conductors, and conduit, calculating voltage drop, and developing panel schedules and riser diagrams. The lighting design was performed used the spatial cavity method. Each floor had their own 480/208V panel feed from a 15KVA 3-phase transformer. The panels included lighting, appliances, and motors. I worked on this project from March 1930 - May 1931."

I would do the larger projects like that, then in the Tasks area cover the smaller, routine, and day-to-day tasks.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 4, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> So I submitted my experience last week. I had two editors: a coworker and my best friend who does editing.
> 
> I came in 6 words under the limit. And I got an email from NCEES with comments:
> 
> ...


I guess I could've asked this first. Did you include _any_ dates on the projects?


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## LyceeFruit PE (Feb 4, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> I guess I could've asked this first. Did you include _any_ dates on the projects?


nope which was clearly wrong lol


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## Orchid PE (Feb 4, 2020)

LyceeFruit PE said:


> nope which was clearly wrong lol


OOOOOOOOOHhhhhhhh. My bad. I was assuming you had some dates but they were looking for more projects. I think if you add the dates you will be good even with the "gaps." The tasks &amp; responsibilities section helps give them an understanding of what you do on a daily basis.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 11, 2020)

Well I have a TN license number, but the state license records show up as "application in process."

So idk. Either the license number is tied to the application, or I've been approved by the state and it's in the final stages of processing.


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## biffnater (Feb 11, 2020)

when you submit references for NCESS... do they require the referencees to send something in?  I just used 3 reference for my Texas state board application and they were required to send some stuff in and sign and envelope and tape over their signature. I would hate to bother these same referencees again and annoy the crap out of them all over again.


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## Reverse Polish (Feb 11, 2020)

biffnater said:


> when you submit references for NCESS... do they require the referencees to send something in?  I just used 3 reference for my Texas state board application and they were required to send some stuff in and sign and envelope and tape over their signature. I would hate to bother these same referencees again and annoy the crap out of them all over again.


When you submit your references and your work experience to NCEES, your references and supervisor(s) will receive an email with a link directing them to the information on which they need to sign-off.  It typically takes only a few minutes to review and complete the requested information (in case you need to nudge someone).


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## Orchid PE (Feb 11, 2020)

biffnater said:


> when you submit references for NCESS... do they require the referencees to send something in?  I just used 3 reference for my Texas state board application and they were required to send some stuff in and sign and envelope and tape over their signature. I would hate to bother these same referencees again and annoy the crap out of them all over again.


The references just complete an online form. I've been a reference for someone and it was really simple.


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## LyceeFruit PE (Feb 11, 2020)

had to resubmit my experience again. needed to add another project. somehow found words to delete to add the new project. and came in under the word limit with 8 words to spare. really hope this gets approved this time.


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## Bruh! PE (Feb 19, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Well I have a TN license number, but the state license records show up as "application in process."
> 
> So idk. Either the license number is tied to the application, or I've been approved by the state and it's in the final stages of processing.


 I got the license in the mail and have an active license number on the Louisiana LAPELS website. However, NCEES still wanted me to take the quizzes, enter references and job experience and pay $175 to transmit the records over. I just finished this and it says they sent my information to Louisiana. But I thought my license was already active? Did I miss something?


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## losviktsgodis (Feb 24, 2020)

My application has been done for a while but I've been dreading the Reference forms. I'm electrical who work mostly under my supervisor (also electrical) but most of our projects are supporting the mechanical crew (chiller replacements, engine generators, pumps etc). Therefore, most of the PE's I've worked with at our firm are mechanical and I'm struggling to find electrical PE references - and if I do, they'll know less about me than the mechanical folks I've been working with. 

Been dreading this part for 2 months now and don't really know what the solution is... any suggestions? 

California - EE Power.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 24, 2020)

losviktsgodis said:


> My application has been done for a while but I've been dreading the Reference forms. I'm electrical who work mostly under my supervisor (also electrical) but most of our projects are supporting the mechanical crew (chiller replacements, engine generators, pumps etc). Therefore, most of the PE's I've worked with at our firm are mechanical and I'm struggling to find electrical PE references - and if I do, they'll know less about me than the mechanical folks I've been working with.
> 
> Been dreading this part for 2 months now and don't really know what the solution is... any suggestions?
> 
> California - EE Power.


Do your references have to be EE's?

For my initial FL application, and my NCEES record, my references were different engineering disciplines (had mechanical, civil, and electrical references). They just had to verify my increasing responsibility and professionalism.


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## losviktsgodis (Feb 24, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> Do your references have to be EE's?
> 
> For my initial FL application, and my NCEES record, my references were different engineering disciplines (had mechanical, civil, and electrical references). They just had to verify my increasing responsibility and professionalism.


In California (As I understand it), I can either have EE or CE references.

I work mainly under the owner who is an EE and don't really work with other EE's, and our firm doesn't employ any CE's. I've worked with many ME's in central plants, co-generation, pumping stations, medium voltage, etc. with really interesting experiences, but I cannot use that as I understand it. All of those projects were reviewed and stamped by the owner, which is my main reference. 

I work in a mid-size company and can be considered "lucky". I really wonder how people in small firms achieve to get 4 references in their own field or from a civil engineer. You don't want to bother client's either... This is kind of creating an issue for me and is dragging my promotion.


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## Orchid PE (Feb 25, 2020)

losviktsgodis said:


> In California (As I understand it), I can either have EE or CE references.
> 
> I work mainly under the owner who is an EE and don't really work with other EE's, and our firm doesn't employ any CE's. I've worked with many ME's in central plants, co-generation, pumping stations, medium voltage, etc. with really interesting experiences, but I cannot use that as I understand it. All of those projects were reviewed and stamped by the owner, which is my main reference.
> 
> I work in a mid-size company and can be considered "lucky". I really wonder how people in small firms achieve to get 4 references in their own field or from a civil engineer. You don't want to bother client's either... This is kind of creating an issue for me and is dragging my promotion.


According to this document:

"[...]* if the applicant does not know* or has not worked with *sufficient licensed engineers in his or her field* to be able to procure the minimum number of appropriately licensed references,* the applicant can solicit any appropriately licensed engineer to review her/his work samples* (drawings, calculations, reports, etc.). Based on that review and a discussion with the applicant, such an engineer can then serve as a reference. The foregoing procedure is only permissible for supplementary references, and it is based on the assumption that the applicant's primary reference for an engagement is an licensed engineer in responsible charge of the applicant’s work. *If all else fails, the applicant should contact the Board for instructions on how to obtain licensed references*."

At the moment, if you don't personally know enough EE's to be references, you are allowed to reach out to licensed engineers to review your work and have a "get to know you" meeting. The owner of your company is an EE, so they will act as the primary reference.

You may have a shot with reaching out to licensed EE's here on the board by starting a new topic. Make sure to specify you need licensed EE's in California.


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## losviktsgodis (Feb 25, 2020)

Chattaneer PE said:


> According to this document:
> 
> "[...]* if the applicant does not know* or has not worked with *sufficient licensed engineers in his or her field* to be able to procure the minimum number of appropriately licensed references,* the applicant can solicit any appropriately licensed engineer to review her/his work samples* (drawings, calculations, reports, etc.). Based on that review and a discussion with the applicant, such an engineer can then serve as a reference. The foregoing procedure is only permissible for supplementary references, and it is based on the assumption that the applicant's primary reference for an engagement is an licensed engineer in responsible charge of the applicant’s work. *If all else fails, the applicant should contact the Board for instructions on how to obtain licensed references*."
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify things for me.

What does "any *appropriately* licensed engineer" constitute. Does that mean any EE/CE that can review my previous work, or does that include Mechanical Engineer's. I have worked with a lot of them, but they didn't exactly review my work on the electrical side. I was part of the design team who attended kick-off meetings, coordinated with the mechanical team and designed my electrical system in accordance to their mechanical spec's (Generators, chillers, pumps etc.) Obviously, my main PE reference who I worked under can attest to all of this experience, and I can then list under each ME reference which projects' I worked with them.

Would that work, or would I have to show my electrical design to other EE/CE's to review my EE portion of the work. 

Thank you for assisting me on finishing this last dreadful portion of the application


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## Orchid PE (Feb 25, 2020)

losviktsgodis said:


> Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify things for me.
> 
> What does "any *appropriately* licensed engineer" constitute. Does that mean any EE/CE that can review my previous work, or does that include Mechanical Engineer's. I have worked with a lot of them, but they didn't exactly review my work on the electrical side. I was part of the design team who attended kick-off meetings, coordinated with the mechanical team and designed my electrical system in accordance to their mechanical spec's (Generators, chillers, pumps etc.) Obviously, my main PE reference who I worked under can attest to all of this experience, and I can then list under each ME reference which projects' I worked with them.
> 
> ...


From reading further in that document, it states:

"*In no case, however, will* references from unlicensed persons or *references not licensed in the applicant's branch of engineering be accepted* in lieu of references from appropriately licensed engineers, when the requirement for having licensed references applies (i.e., when the applicant has been working in a non-exempt area)."

It looks like appropriately licensed means they still have to be licensed in your branch of engineering (electrical).


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## losviktsgodis (Feb 25, 2020)

That's the line that confuses me too.

@CAPLS Could please advise on how to proceed? I've noticed you have all the answer's on this board


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## CAPLS (Feb 25, 2020)

losviktsgodis said:


> That's the line that confuses me too.
> 
> @CAPLS Could please advise on how to proceed? I've noticed you have all the answer's on this board


Ha!  I don't think I have all the answers, but I'm always willing to help out with the information I do know.  The document that ChattaneerPE directed you to is a good reference and accurate.  Given that your primary reference is your supervisor in responsible charge and licensed in the branch of engineering which matches your experience is a big benefit for you.  If that reference can certify to being in responsible charge for a sufficient amount of months to satisfy the requirements, then the remaining three references need only be familiar enough with your work to be able to certify to your abilities to practice professionally.

Since California is one of approximately 10-12 jurisdictions that license by engineering discipline, I do believe that the *other three references must be able to demonstrate that they are authorized to practice the branch of engineering for which you are applying*.  Many other jurisdictions license generically as PE and only requires those references to practice within their area(s) of expertise.

Your best bet for confirming this would be to contact Mike Donelson at [email protected] at the California Board. He is the one who performs the technical review of ME and EE (any non-civil) applications and he could advise you appropriately.


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## losviktsgodis (Feb 25, 2020)

CAPLS said:


> Ha!  I don't think I have all the answers, but I'm always willing to help out with the information I do know.  The document that ChattaneerPE directed you to is a good reference and accurate.  Given that your primary reference is your supervisor in responsible charge and licensed in the branch of engineering which matches your experience is a big benefit for you.  If that reference can certify to being in responsible charge for a sufficient amount of months to satisfy the requirements, then the remaining three references need only be familiar enough with your work to be able to certify to your abilities to practice professionally.
> 
> Since California is one of approximately 10-12 jurisdictions that license by engineering discipline, I do believe that the *other three references must be able to demonstrate that they are authorized to practice the branch of engineering for which you are applying*.  Many other jurisdictions license generically as PE and only requires those references to practice within their area(s) of expertise.
> 
> Your best bet for confirming this would be to contact Mike Donelson at [email protected] at the California Board. He is the one who performs the technical review of ME and EE (any non-civil) applications and he could advise you appropriately.


Great information from the both of you. Thank you both very much! I'll see what I can do this finish this dreadful process ha!


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