# Should AutoCAD be a required college course?



## guitarjamman (Mar 25, 2013)

I have a gripe with current college curriculums and what is required to earn a degree. It seems no school requires a class in AutoCAD drafting specific to the major, they only offer a basic elective that shows how to draw a line inside of a circle. When my company tries to hire a new employee, none of the recent graduates know how to draft; they put down some autocad experience on the resume but have no idea where to even begin when it comes to using the major features we use day after day. I harldy call "knowing how to make a rectangle and hatching it" experience.

Now I know that we are looking for an entry level civil engineer and not a draftsman, but with technology these days, I honestly feel like using pencil and paper to design something does not cut it anymore. I would rather play with lines in AutoCAD to get my grading to work than to try and draw pencil lines and erase, try again, crumple paper and print new sheet, erase, etc....Am I being absurd in asking schools to train engineers how to use the tools of the trade? With all the money that we pay to "educate" ourselves, the least the overpaid teachers could do is offer a degree specific course in how to hit the ground running when hired.

/RANT


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## bradlelf (Mar 25, 2013)

Funny you should mention this; i just interviewed a soon to be grad this morning ... I also have another on Thursday.

I have interviewed many grads from a host of schools and they all have had a CAD class. Some are basic ACAD while others have ACAD C3D; some are merely "widget" drafting while other have done plan and profile.

I guy today has limited ACAD experience but a solid background. To get him up to production level will take 3 months of training though.

I typically look for grads who have had at least one year of co-op at an engineering firm prior to graduation. I think the bigger problem is that not all engineering colleges require co-op. I wish ABET would make it a graduation/curriculum requirement.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 25, 2013)

&lt;===Taught drafting on paper, AutoCad, DOGS, and Inventor.



guitarjamman said:


> I have a gripe with current college curriculums and what is required to earn a degree. It seems no school requires a class in AutoCAD drafting specific to the major, they only offer a basic elective that shows how to draw a line inside of a circle. When my company tries to hire a new employee, none of the recent graduates know how to draft; they put down some autocad experience on the resume but have no idea where to even begin when it comes to using the major features we use day after day. I harldy call "knowing how to make a rectangle and hatching it" experience.
> 
> Now I know that we are looking for an entry level civil engineer and not a draftsman, but with technology these days, I honestly feel like using pencil and paper to design something does not cut it anymore. I would rather play with lines in AutoCAD to get my grading to work than to try and draw pencil lines and erase, try again, crumple paper and print new sheet, erase, etc....Am I being absurd in asking schools to train engineers how to use the tools of the trade? With all the money that we pay to "educate" ourselves, the least the overpaid teachers could do is offer a degree specific course in how to hit the ground running when hired.
> 
> /RANT


There's a lot of different programs out there. Best thing is to give students a decent overview of the most common and let industry invest in more training on their system if they so desire.


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## blybrook PE (Mar 25, 2013)

When I was in school, we had a required drafting course as part of our "beginning to engineering", AKA Engineering 100 &amp; 101. The only problem was that this class did not use AutoCAD, but taught i-Deas; now known as Siemens NX series. I had a good background in blueprints from previous experience, so the class was easy enough.

I do agree that there should be some sort of CAD class as part of the regular course work. The main problem is that it will only be an overview course as there are several platforms out there and not all companies utilize the same one as Capt has also pointed out.

It is best to introduce the students to each one in an introductory level class and then the employer provide the additional training as to their standards &amp; requirements once they are on the job (provided they are being hired as an entry level). Mid level and higher applicants should be more than familiar with the particular software necessary when applying for the job.


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## Capt Worley PE (Mar 25, 2013)

blybrook PE said:


> It is best to* introduce the students to each one* in an introductory level class and then the employer provide the additional training as to their standards &amp; requirements once they are on the job (provided they are being hired as an entry level). Mid level and higher applicants should be more than familiar with the particular software necessary when applying for the job.




The problem becomes attaining all the necessary software licensing and texts. It is a money issue. Because of this, schools usually will opt for one platform.


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## blybrook PE (Mar 25, 2013)

That is true Capt! Licensing to universities for introductory classes should have a steep discount so that students get a chance to see what is out there!


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## ptatohed (Mar 25, 2013)

I would have much prefered a required class is CAD (either AutoCAD and/or Microstation) than that lame Fortran class I had to take.


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## wilheldp_PE (Mar 25, 2013)

I had a general engineering drawing class. About half the year was spent drawing by hand in 2D and Isometric views, and the second half of the year was spent learning 2D and 3D AutoCad. That introduction has allowed me to quickly pick up any new CAD program that I've needed to use. Most of the commands are the same, you just have to learn some new syntax or button layouts.


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## guitarjamman (Mar 29, 2013)

ngnrd - PE said:


> ^^^^ My experience is similar. The Engineering Graphics class required by my civil degree program started by drawing a cube with a pencil and ended with designing a complete house around a particularly steep/confined topo in 3D AutoCAD. That was about a decade ago. Since then, I've only seriously used CAD for about 3 months total in 2007 (obviously I don't typically do design...). This week, I took a three-day _intro to Civil3D_ class, and I had no problem learning how to create surfaces, alignments, assemblies, and corridors, perform grading functions, and create pipe systems - none of which I did in school. The basic "language" of the program is similar to what I learned with AutoCAD in school, even though C3D has vastly greater capabilities.
> 
> What schools are you looking at that don't require some type of CAD? And why would you expect an entry level employee to be a master of the particular software package used in your office?
> 
> Your criticism is like a practicing urologist criticizing med schools because current graduates haven't performed dozens of vasectomies. Heck, not even all urologists perform vasectomies.




All the local universities/colleges in my area do not require a CAD class, the University of Massachusetts where I went only offered one elective in CAD design, but that only consisted of drafting in isometric views - the final assignment was to take a floor plan printout and copy it into AutoCAD. Maybe I was a little harsh in my initial assessment but I certainly do not expect an entry level engineer to be a master in CAD, but the majority of candidates who walk through the door never even took one class in CAD. That is a huge downfall in my eyes - I do not have the time to train them and no one else in the office has the time or understanding of the program to assist. I will show them how to perform the more complex tasks like 3D modeling or volume calculations, but when someone has no understanding of the difference between model and paper space, I feel like the school let them down. Maybe they should not HAVE to take a class in AutoCAD, but when they know where they would like to go with their career (hopefully by their senior year), the university should offer a class to better prepare them in the technical aspects instead of forcing them to take a general elective in world basket weaving.

In my line of work, land development, I consider AutoCAD to be a necessary tool - it is the language that we must speak. Comparing it to urologists and med school grads is a little like apples to oranges in my mind. All med school graduates should know how to use proper tools of their trade, whether it is a scalpel, forcepts, etc. The doctor shows them how to use those tools for their specific application, not how to hold them and what they are called.


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## tim1981 (Apr 11, 2013)

Just learn it on your own. It really doesn't require an instructor. Depending on what branch of engineering you want to get into, you may want to learn AutoCAD, Revit, Solidworks, Microstation, or something else. It doesn't make sense for a school to require everyone to learn them all, nor would it make sense to pick one. Just get the student version of the software used in the industry you want to work and go through the tutorials.


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## mrt406 (Apr 11, 2013)

ptatohed said:


> I would have much prefered a required class is CAD (either AutoCAD and/or Microstation) than that lame Fortran class I had to take.




That's funny, I took a Fortran class also. Needless to say, I don't use it very often in my line of work...


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## envirotex (Apr 11, 2013)

I don't that it should be AutoCAD specifically, but I do think that there still should be some sort of CAD drafting class required, and that it should be STRONGLY GIS focused.

I think that the engineering schools just figure that you will pick up drafting along the way in your regular coursework. Kind of like elementary schools and middle schools just assume that you will pick up cursive writing and typing without any formal instruction.


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## butch81385 (Apr 16, 2013)

I went to PSU for Architectural Engineering. I had to take a generic engineering drafting class. I also had to take a class specific to my major which covered how to draw and how to read engineering plans related to buildings (multiple disciplines). AutoCad was also required for many architecture projects as part of required architectural classes There was also an optional class (counted as a departmental elective) that did more detailed cad work, and also taught revit and viz. I was surprised to know that other schools/other majors didn't do as much.


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## Lumber Jim (Apr 17, 2013)

Hand sketching, Autocad, and a 3D modeling software should be required.

I only had a 3D software class and after getting a real job I found that I had difficulty explaining ideas with a napkin sketch when the napkin sketch looked like crap... Learned autoCad on the job but this was a struggle to learn how to draw thing backward from how you draw them in 3d Cad...

None of this will matter when someone finally comes up with a way for me to convert my thoughts to digital models using only my mind...


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## mudpuppy (Apr 20, 2013)

I've never once used a CAD program, and I probably never will have to, so I'd be pretty annoyed if I was forced to take a CAD class in college.

If I were to want to learn CAD, I'm sure there's plenty of classes out there that would be a lot cheaper and more efficient than taking a university class in it. The purpose of a BS in Engineering isn't to leave with a working knowledge of specific software/hardware/language--that's a vocational program. You should leave school with the ability to understand and practice engineering concepts. As long as a student is proficient in the basics, picking up ancillary skill sets like a software program or a programming language should be a fairly simple matter.


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## andyrich (Apr 30, 2013)

College? You should have learned it in high school like I did  I took a drafting class in high school for two years, and that opened my eyes to the world of design and ultimately engineering.

I think it probably is important to learn drafting and design in the college curriculum just as much as it is to learn english 101 or literature. I think some level of understanding of the tool will make you a better engineer, even if you never personally do your own drawings.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Apr 30, 2013)

mudpuppy said:


> I've never once used a CAD program, and I probably never will have to, so I'd be pretty annoyed if I was forced to take a CAD class in college.
> 
> If I were to want to learn CAD, I'm sure there's plenty of classes out there that would be a lot cheaper and more efficient than taking a university class in it. The purpose of a BS in Engineering isn't to leave with a working knowledge of specific software/hardware/language--that's a vocational program. You should leave school with the ability to understand and practice engineering concepts. As long as a student is proficient in the basics, picking up ancillary skill sets like a software program or a programming language should be a fairly simple matter.


Agreed. Plus many engineering positions do not utilize CAD at all. In the 10 years I've been out of college, only one of my 3 jobs required me to use CAD. Many design-based consultation firms use CAD technicians to handle the "busy work" of entering the lines, dimensions, etc, in order to all the engineers to focus on the technical side of things. Now that I'm back in the construction field, I only use CAD to review the design submitted by the design/build contractor.


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## Dleg (May 1, 2013)

"CAD" was required back when I was in college, but this was ~25 years ago and it was such an incipient thing that there was no dominant program to learn from. My university had a CAD lab that ran off some mainframe system that created vector graphics. The course was pretty much all about vector manipulation - i.e. creating a 3-D object out of points and vectors, and then learning how to translate/rotate/scale etc. Basic stuff, but there's no better way to get a feel for vector mathematics than doing it yourself. I learned "drafting" by hand in high school. Do high schools even offer that, or have a "tech arts" department any more?

I wish to hell I had been able to learn AutoCAD in school. I think that's a very valuable skill, even if you never use it. But yeah, it can be learned on the job, too. And others are right - other programs and even GIS are more important for some professions.


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## guitarjamman (May 1, 2013)

Junior and Senior year of school when students begin to hone in on what they want to become is when cirriculums should begin to incorporate these programs into the higher electives. I completely understand the financial burden carried by schools to obtain and keep up their licenses, but when students are paying $30-40K per year to attend a school as an engineer and with the student license discounts these programs give, the licensing fees should be covered by tuition - not sent along to the sports coaches or tenured english 101 professors making $150K per year (but that is a whole different topic in general).

Give homework assignments that require the use of these programs. Let the students see how beneficial these programs CAN be to the engineering fields and you will begin to turn out more competent graduates.


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## Supe (May 1, 2013)

I've used CAD once in the last 5 years, and that was only because Sketch-Up wasn't out yet...


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## iwire (May 3, 2013)

That's funny about Fortran. I also took it and never use again since.

I learned Microstation, Autocad, mapinfo, arcgis while on the job


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## solomonb (May 5, 2013)

A solution to this problem is to identify it to the advisory board to the Dean of College of Engineering. Most engineering colleges have business/engineernig advisory boards whose role, among others, is to tell the Dean and faculty what they need in the field and how the school is either preparing/not preparing the candidates for the work in the field. A good Dean will listen carefully to his/her employer stakeholders, the last thing he/she wants is to NOT PREPARE his/her degree candidates with tools that are needed in the field.

Go to any engineering school that ABET accredited; there is a Dean's advisory council. Call one of the members and tell he/she how you feel about this. They will listen. I suspect that they will bring it up at the next advisory board meeting. The challenge then becomes where is the funding going to come from for the college to get the software and what courses are going to be deleted so that this can be added. Of course, this may be able to be introduced into some existing class-- each school is different.

When I was a Dean, I listened very, very carefully to what the business advisory board told me. WE made "field adjustments" to the curriculum when necessary to be sure our candidates were prepared for the world of work.


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## hjg7715 (May 7, 2013)

Had you asked this question 7 years ago, I probably would have said that all CE students should not only be required to take a basic AutoCAD course, but advanced AutoCAD courses as well to learn how to use the more advanced features of AutoCAD Civil 3D.

However, since that time, my opinion has evolved. I think it's a lot more important that CE students learn the engineering principles that AutoCAD has automated and let industry train him/her on how to use the features of AutoCAD if their employer has elected to purchase AutoCAD licensing. There are a lot of different software suites and applications that can accomplish the same things. And it would be impractical for engineering schools to invest heavily with resources and curriculum into a single software suite.

Prior to completing my college degree, I learned how to use many of the advanced features of AutoCAD such as pipe creation tools, grading, etc...and knew how to use AutoCAD extensively. But I can't say I had mastered the principles behind the civil tools in AutoCAd and on occasions found it challenging when migrating from AutoCAD to other software suites or even with manual engineering calculations. However, after developing solid foundations in the principles behind the civil tools in AutoCAD, I found it rather easy to learn how to use most of the features in AutoCAD, as well as other software suites. The principles don't change, but the inputs or controls that software use does, but IMO that's relatively easy to learn if you understand the inputs.


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