# Electronic PE Stamp



## dkent (Jul 16, 2007)

Gang,

I received my package from Missouri today with my certificate, rules, etc. In there it said I had to get a stamp and submit it for approval. It also went on to say that the acceptable forms could be embossed, rubber stamp, and electronic image. So...since graphical art is kinda a hobby of mine, I created a "stamp". See the picture below.

The stamp follows the design rules outlined by the board. Let me know what you think.

Also, if anyone is interested, I might be willing to do a custom stamp for you for a small donation. I can supply it in several image formats including the original unmerged file. Let me know if you are interested.

D


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2007)

^^^ I think as long as you are complying with Missouri Rule, 20 CSR 2030-3.060 *Licensee’s Seal* then you are good to go. It seems like the main provision is:



> Each person licensed as an architect, professional engineer, professional land surveyor or landscape architect (not including interns or individuals “in-training”) shall, at his/her own expense, secure a seal one and threequarters inches (1 3/4”) in diameter of the following design: the seal shall consist of two concentric circles between which shall appear in roman capital letters, the words, “State of Missouri” on the upper part of the seal and either “Architect,” or “Professional Engineer,” or “Professional Land Surveyor” or “Landscape Architect,” as the case may be, on the lower part, and within the inner circle shall appear the name of the licensee, together with his/her license number preceded by the roman capital letter(s) A for Architect, PE for Professional Engineer, PLS for Professional Land Surveyor or LA for Landscape Architect.


It seems like you have followed the requirements, so you should be good to go.

Regarding eletronic seals and electronic submittals - there are many places requiring special 'security' measures to be in place prior to transmittal in order for the electronic seal to be used on a document. You may want to check if your licensing agency or any agencies accepting work from engineers, like State DOT, requires such security measures to be in place prior to transmitting electronically sealed documents. Florida has such a requirement - I just haven't bothered to read up on it.

JR


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## dkent (Jul 17, 2007)

Yep, I followed these design rules and also looked at their example when designing it. The test will be when I send it in for approval. Their letter said if it was not accepted, they would mail me another submittal form.

You have to wonder how many stamps actually don't get approved. I wouldn't think many. However, doing the electronic image before making the stamp might save a few headaches.

D



> Each person licensed as an architect, professional engineer, professional land surveyor or landscape architect (not including interns or individuals “in-training”) shall, at his/her own expense, secure a seal one and three quarters inches (1 3/4”) in diameter of the following design: the seal shall consist of two concentric circles between which shall appear in roman capital letters, the words, “State of Missouri” on the upper part of the seal and either “Architect,” or “Professional Engineer,” or “Professional Land Surveyor” or “Landscape Architect,” as the case may be, on the lower part, and within the inner circle shall appear the name of the licensee, together with his/her license number preceded by the roman capital letter(s) A for Architect, PE for Professional Engineer, PLS for Professional Land Surveyor or LA for Landscape Architect.


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## Old as Dirt Geo (Jul 17, 2007)

NJ only allows embossed seals. No electronic of rubber seals. Interesting thing about electronic seals if you aren't careful you can e-mail your seal with a set of drawings. Our survey department I had work for an engineering firm in NJ and our survey department had asked for and electronic version of site plans so they could use them for construction stake out. The engineering firm that created the design was from VA and when they e-mailed the drawings, there was an electronic version of the engineer's VA seal and signature in a seperated file attachment. It was unprotected!!! Anyone could use it that had access to the drawing. You could even save it out of the drawings. What was even more interesting was when we called the engineer to tell him about it and he was unconcerned. He said the reason he sent it was if we needed a sealed copy of the drawings.


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## jeb6294 (Jul 17, 2007)

As informal as they are about ordering stamps and seals, I'm not surprised that this wasn't considered a "big deal". Especially if the e-stamp is just the stamp...if it had the guys signature scanned in with the stamp to make it look like he's signed it then I could see a problem. I know in Ohio, an e-stamp is just like a rubber stamp in that you have to sign and date the plans to make it "official".

If you think about it, I think the only thing they cared about when I ordered my stamp and seal was my credit card number. I'm willing to bet they don't bother to check with the state to verify your name vs. PE number info and you can pull that info from any state's website so theoretically you could get a very official looking embossed seal in anybody's name without much trouble.



Old as Dirt Geo said:


> Interesting thing about electronic seals if you aren't careful you can e-mail your seal with a set of drawings....What was even more interesting was when we called the engineer to tell him about it and he was unconcerned.


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## NCcarguy (Jul 17, 2007)

We use electronic seals here at times....I have the actual seal in a folder named "Seal" but have a note that reads "This drawing originally sealed by........" as a cell that stays in the drawings folder. So whenever we plot sheets in this office, the seal plots, but if we send the files out electronically, the note gets sent with it, and the note plots. I think it actually works quite well.


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## IlPadrino (Jul 17, 2007)

I'm surprised we don't hear more talk about "digital signatures" rather than electronic signatures. As many drawings are transmitted electronically, the "stamp" (which can be easily counterfeit) could be replaced by a digital signature signed with a certificate that is *guaranteed* to be authentic.

Does anyone know of a state that accepts digital signatures?


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## DVINNY (Jul 17, 2007)

IlPadrino said:


> Does anyone know of a state that accepts digital signatures?


Florida is leading the way on digital submittals. They've outlined the process and what is acceptable.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2007)

^^^ Yep, yep the man is correct.

Florida Rule 61G15-23.003 states,



> (1) Engineering work which must be sealed under the provisions of Chapter 471, F.S., stored or transmitted in an electronic format, shall be signed, dated and sealed by the professional engineer in responsible charge.(2) A license holder may use a computer generated representation of his or her seal on electronically conveyed work; however, the final hard copy documents of such engineering work must contain an original signature of the license holder and date or the documents must be accompanied by an electronic signature as described in this section. A scanned image of an original signature shall not be used in lieu of an original signature or electronic signature. Engineering work that contains a computer generated seal shall be accompanied by the following text or similar wording: “The seal appearing on this document was authorized by [Example: Leslie H. Doe, P.E. 0112 on (date)]” unless accompanied by an electronic signature as described in this section.
> 
> (3) An electronic signature is a digital authentication process attached to or logically associated with an electronic document and shall carry the same weight, authority, and effect as an original signature. The electronic signature, which can be generated by using either public key infrastructure or signature dynamics technology, must be as follows:
> 
> ...


The agency leading the way is the Florida DOT - they have a system in place called *Professionals' Electronic Data Delivery System (PEDDS)* that goes into details about how to SECURELY transmit sealed documents and the secure 'signature' software that is used.

JR


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2007)

^^^ The Federal Govt has done a very nice job with leading the way with using digital signatures. US EPA has a process called CROMERR (40 CFR 3) that provides protocols for 'electronic portals' for delivering documents necessary to procure permits under Title 40 of the Federal Code. Since permitting is designated as an engineering function, it includes the 'secure' transmission of P.E. certifications (also owner/operator certs, but that is a tad different).

Once states get on board with whatever standard is selected for 'secure' digital signatures, this will be very commonplace. I am still waiting for my states' IMS to approve the digital standards from 40 CFR 3. I am already sending correspondence with electronic signature (sans P.E. cert) but once that standard is in place everything will be in place.

I started a thread on this topic under the tech section - I will update once I receive more news.

JR


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## DVINNY (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks JR, the PEDDS system is what I was talking about but couldn't remember the name.

We have three offices in FL and our company was giving 'classes' about that system. I had no need for it.


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## RIP - VTEnviro (Jul 24, 2007)

The Vermont DEC is getting into the e-submittals as well. It's a great idea, but a little tough to execute sometimes.

Plans are easy to churn out a set of pdfs for. Same for strictly Word or Excel stuff.

The problem is when you have a mixed report. Text, spreadsheets, model/cad printouts, hand calcs, etc. It's hard to organize that into one concise e-document. And I don't feel comfrtable sending them all the files and hoping they put it together right.


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## jeb6294 (Jul 24, 2007)

VTEnviro said:


> The Vermont DEC is getting into the e-submittals as well. It's a great idea, but a little tough to execute sometimes.
> Plans are easy to churn out a set of pdfs for. Same for strictly Word or Excel stuff.
> 
> The problem is when you have a mixed report. Text, spreadsheets, model/cad printouts, hand calcs, etc. It's hard to organize that into one concise e-document. And I don't feel comfrtable sending them all the files and hoping they put it together right.



Two words for you...pdf995 and pdfedit995

They're both free programs you can download at Software995 (to keep the versions free you have to deal with a little pop-up advertisement window when you use them but they are easy enough to close).

When you install pdf995 it just shows up as a printer. Print your document just the way you would with any other printer except pdf995 brings up a window asking what you want to save your file as and just like that you have a .pdf file.

If you're preparing a report you can create all your .pdf's (typically I'll have a few Excel pages of calculations, some Word pages with summaries, and a few Autacad pages with drainage maps) and then use pdfedit995 to merge them all into one .pdf file....it's got several other features, but for the most part I just use it for the merge feature.


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## grover (Jul 25, 2007)

winzip is also pretty adept at packaging a number of files into 1 so they don't get lost. AND they stay editible, which is always good, unless you're one of those greedy bastards who doesn't want anyone to be able to wash off their drawings...


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## dkent (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, my do-it-yourself stamp was accepted:








dkent said:


> Gang,
> I received my package from Missouri today with my certificate, rules, etc. In there it said I had to get a stamp and submit it for approval. It also went on to say that the acceptable forms could be embossed, rubber stamp, and electronic image. So...since graphical art is kinda a hobby of mine, I created a "stamp". See the picture below.
> 
> The stamp follows the design rules outlined by the board. Let me know what you think.
> ...


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2007)

^^^ Wow .. you license# is 1234567890 ??

The combination to your luggage wouldn't happen to be 1-2-3-4 would it ?? :laugh:

JR


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## dkent (Jul 27, 2007)

Nope, and my name isn't John B Doe either. 



jregieng said:


> ^^^ Wow .. you license# is 1234567890 ??
> The combination to your luggage wouldn't happen to be 1-2-3-4 would it ?? :laugh:
> 
> JR


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