# Finance anyone?



## MetsFan (Jul 29, 2014)

I've been trying to get my family's finances in order for a couple of years now. Now with a second child on the way, I think it's definitely time to get it all straightened out - college savings!

Do you guys handle it all yourselves or do you have an adviser help you out with that sort of stuff. I've been doing a lot of reading on investing options and such, but I don't know if this is something I should consult a professional about.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

Our finances got a good deal more complicated with me adding a small business and consulting on the side. Plus with both of us working engineers, we simply didn't have time to devote to researching all the best options. So we went with a financial adviser through Northwestern Mutual who also handles our life insurance policies among other things like monitoring our 401k investment options (quarterly). Huge weight of our shoulders by having him spend time on those things. We also consolidated a few of our 401k plans from previous employers into IRA accounts (also where he controls the investment options). We also have pretty solid retirement goals set in that we know when and by how much we need to change our contributions.


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## matt267 PE (Jul 29, 2014)

Before my wife and I had our daughter, we went to a financial adviser. All he did was sell us product, ie: Roth IRA, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

^ same here. We searched, read reviews, and interviewed multiple advisers before we finally found one we liked. Took close to a year before we made a final decision. But in that time, most of the ones we saw were basically just sales people trying to get you to buy some type of policy. It got to be quite frustrating.


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## matt267 PE (Jul 29, 2014)

I wonder if a financial adviser from a local community group or church would provide sound and unbiased advise. It is good to talk with someone who knows what they are talking about. But I don't trust a salesman.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

Basically we had a "list" of things we wanted to accomplish. If the adviser we were meeting with strayed from that list to talk about a different "product", we didn't even give it a 2nd thought and it was on to the next candidate.


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## MetsFan (Jul 29, 2014)

matt267 said:


> Before my wife and I had our daughter, we went to a financial adviser. All he did was sell us product, ie: Roth IRA, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.




That's what I'm afraid of. I met with one before, but he was always calling and very, very eager. He made his money from what he sold, so I stayed away. I haven't met with anybody else since though.

My wife works at a school and the people that handle her retirement account offer services too, so I'll check in with them too.



knight1fox3 said:


> Basically we had a "list" of things we wanted to accomplish. If the adviser we were meeting with strayed from that list to talk about a different "product", we didn't even give it a 2nd thought and it was on to the next candidate.




That's a good idea. I have a pretty good idea of how I want to invest, but it's just a matter of having the time to monitor them like you said.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

With my previous employer (small power engineering consulting firm), this particular adviser had worked with the owner and also had a few other fellow employees as clients. So I figured I would give him the chance to see what he had to offer. Plus he was local and didn't bring up anything about life insurance until WE asked him. None of the other candidates we met with did that so we opted to go with his services. He also didn't hound us either while we were making our final decision. Another plus IMO.


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## mudpuppy (Jul 29, 2014)

Finance/Investing is one of my hobbies so I spend a good amount of time reading about it, and I'm also president of a small stock buying club.

Most financial advisers have no legal fiduciary duty to their clients, so they are free to advise you to buy the investments that give them the best kickbacks rather than the best investments for you. The best ones make you feel like you're getting a good deal, when behind the scenes they are making a fortune off you. I prefer to do things myself, but If I did ever seek advice from an adviser--and there certainly are times when this makes sense--it would be someone who charges a set hourly fee rather than directly managing what I'm investing in. I just could never turn over my entire future to someone else.

Engineers are pretty intelligent and math-oriented so finance is often a natural fit for us. Picking up some reading material on investing here and there certainly can't hurt. For instance, the cover story of the latest Money magazine talks about why so many financial advisers push for their clients to roll over their 401ks into IRAs (more fees for them), and what the pitfalls of doing this could be.


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2014)

[SIZE=medium]We do ours ourselves, I will echo what mp said, most of it is simple math and the research can be fun..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I have an MBA (Finance), coolest class I ever took was a stock valuation class, basically it teaches you that most all of those hip ratios people use on TV commercials are bullshit. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]ROI, Debt to Income are good ones, but there really is no magic formula that will predict a future stock price.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]There are lots of free tools you can get to look at what % to put in stocks, bonds, and such. We have a healthy make up of blue chip stocks, and things built more for long term. I feel we have done pretty well.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The main thing is just to put as much as you can into your 401K that you can afford to live without. It adds up quick when you do it that way..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I don’t recall what our exact breakdowns are for each account though..We started out more aggressive 20 years ago than we are today.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I have been slowly rolling up some old 401K’s into my current work 401K and it’s a pain.. these people don’t want to let go of “my” money…. My current employer has Vanguard, whom we were using for personal investment accounts so I am happy to put them all in vanguard.[/SIZE]


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## MetsFan (Jul 29, 2014)

mudpuppy, good advice, thanks!

RG, I had my 401K for my past 3 employers in the same accounts up until last year. My wife and I then met with an adviser at Citzens Bank and I rolled it all over to one of their IRA's. I'm pretty happy with the return I'm getting, but I feel I could be doing better with less fees. I started a Roth for me and my wife at Vanguard and love their funds so I'm thinking of taking everything out of Citizens and moving it to Vanguard as well.

I still have a lot to learn though. I've read about those four fund lazy portfolios on bogleheads so I might do that to start with. I've also been itching to buy some stocks so I ended up buying AAPL before the split and it's been doing pretty well for me. On the down side, I bought ZGNX and that has been a dog. Luckily, I only invested a tiny bit into that one.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> Finance/Investing is one of my hobbies so I spend a good amount of time reading about it, and I'm also president of a small stock buying club.
> 
> Most financial advisers have no legal fiduciary duty to their clients, so they are free to advise you to buy the investments that give them the best kickbacks rather than the best investments for you. The best ones make you feel like you're getting a good deal, when behind the scenes they are making a fortune off you. I prefer to do things myself, but If I did ever seek advice from an adviser--and there certainly are times when this makes sense--it would be someone who charges a set hourly fee rather than directly managing what I'm investing in. I just could never turn over my entire future to someone else.
> 
> Engineers are pretty intelligent and math-oriented so finance is often a natural fit for us. Picking up some reading material on investing here and there certainly can't hurt. For instance, the cover story of the latest Money magazine talks about why so many financial advisers push for their clients to roll over their 401ks into IRAs (more fees for them), and what the pitfalls of doing this could be.


I was waiting for your response on this.  As the comment was seemingly directed at me based on previous conversations, we certainly haven't turned off our future to someone else. Merely relegated some of the trivial tasks to someone more qualified. My time is worth more spent elsewhere.

Our adviser charges us for his time. The only kick-back he received was from the life insurance policy we bought (albeit a small percentage). But show me a policy where this isn't the case. NW Mutual was very good at being up front with their policy and any non-hidden fees. And they have one of the best customer satisfaction ratings in the financial investment sector. Hopefully we'll never have to encounter a situation where we need to collect. 

I've read a few articles before in Money magazine and I often find myself disagreeing with the points they try to make. And the advising against 401k to IRA roll-overs would be one of them. None of us are to the point in our lives yet where we can be taking out of our 401k retirement funds without penalty. But I can tell you getting your money out of an IRA when YOU want it is infinitely easier than if it were sitting in a 401k. It's not a good idea to have multiple 401k plans just sitting there from the research I've done. Especially if you don't continually monitor where the funds are invested and how they are trending.

I will also say (as others have pointed out) there is no one fool-proof recipe for the most optimal retirement plan. All one can do is their due diligence in putting forth some effort up front into researching the best course of action for their specific financial situation.


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2014)

if everyone would shop at Home Depot and buy insane amounts of Coca Cola I would really appreciate it


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

Fiber optic and solid state technology is what's trending and will continue to.


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2014)

www.etoys.com was trending in the 90's also...


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2014)

and my "real retirement" accoutns are pretty diverse, those are just the only stocks I physically own outside of my long term investments

Home Depot- got free stock when I worked there, its done well, and the Coke stock is something I have had forever and it is still a staple..both have been using DRP's and its amazing what a decade will do for you.. one of those may very well pay a few years of early retirement...

My only real investment advice is do not buy any stocks or any short term investments until you have 100% taken advantage of your tax free opportunities via 401K, i.e. put back the max uncle sam will let you each year before you buy seperate stocks..


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## mudpuppy (Jul 29, 2014)

KF, I wasn't trying to pick on you, just want to make sure people go into this with eyes wide open, the main point being financial advisers have very little legal obligation to you, so it's always a good idea to do your own homework. Which it sounds like you have done.

I will argue with your response a little bit though. "More qualified" is pretty subjective because it doesn't take all that much education to be a financial planner--obviously some planners have a lot of education and decades of experience, but some do not. I'd also argue in some cases against the idea the it's not worth your time. The answer to this really depends on how your adviser is paid. A lot of advisers (not all--and I'm not saying this is true in your case) are paid as a percentage of assets, such as 1% per year. 1% doesn't sound like much, but if you're starting with $100k, over 30 years that 1% could cost you $200k (the difference between 7% and 8% return). In that case spending a couple hours a month keeping tabs on your investments works out to $275/hour (fatty money!).

As for Money magazine, I agree it isn't the greatest publication out there. SmartMoney was a lot better, but it got sh!tcanned when Rupert Murdoch bought out the Wall Street Journal. However, again, the point of the article I mentioned was more about being cognizant of the risks than saying it's never a good idea to roll over a 401k. Heck, I wish I could roll my 401k into an IRA because IRAs offer a lot more investing options. And as you said, having multiple 401ks lying around can be a PITA. But the article was warning about advisers pushing people into rolling into an IRA with advising services that cost as much as 1.2% per year.

So what I was trying to say boils down to be wary and do your homework. In the end, everyone should do what they are happy with as long as they aren't getting gouged by their advisers. It sounds like you put a lot of work into finding an adviser you trust and the relationship works for you I think that's great! Other people like to take an active role in this stuff and I think that's great too--personally I'm passionate about investing (can you tell?) and I'm always pushing people around me to learn more. Kind of like doing taxes, I used to be intimidated by investing but in the end it doesn't have to be very difficult and can be rewarding--if that's where your interests lie.


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## Road Guy (Jul 29, 2014)

If you roll Pre-Tax money into an IRA its still going to penalize you when you take it out early.

If you roll or place post tax money into an IRA then you can take it out minus the 10% penalty

I am getting down to one 401K &amp; one 457 Plan (once T. Rowe Mother Fucking! Price) sends me my damn check! Had 4 accounts (4 jobs since college) and just recently merged them all together (did I mention I really like Vanguard?)

But since I have a healthy amount in a 457-B Plan and I can take that money out without the 10% penalty at any age so I am leaving that there as my rainy day fund- hope to never use.. I am not sure why government plans allow the money to be take out without the penalty (its specific to local governments) but I wont argue...

I am thankful my wife was a pain in my ass and made me put close to the max in our 401K for most of our life, (and doing that raising 3 kids has not been easy at all), barring any setbacks in 10 years I am quitting my job, moving to Breck, Frisco, etc and getting a part time job driving a snow plow on I-70 with Co DOT and skiing until my knees cant take it anymore.. wife can still make fatty RN money up in the mountains I imagine..


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## mudpuppy (Jul 29, 2014)

MetsFan said:


> mudpuppy, good advice, thanks!
> 
> RG, I had my 401K for my past 3 employers in the same accounts up until last year. My wife and I then met with an adviser at Citzens Bank and I rolled it all over to one of their IRA's. I'm pretty happy with the return I'm getting, but I feel I could be doing better with less fees. I started a Roth for me and my wife at Vanguard and love their funds so I'm thinking of taking everything out of Citizens and moving it to Vanguard as well.
> 
> I still have a lot to learn though. I've read about those four fund lazy portfolios on bogleheads so I might do that to start with. I've also been itching to buy some stocks so I ended up buying AAPL before the split and it's been doing pretty well for me. On the down side, I bought ZGNX and that has been a dog. Luckily, I only invested a tiny bit into that one.




I'm a big fan of Bogle--that guy is a legend. It's hard to go wrong with his ideas about indexing and keeping costs low.

If you're interested in selecting individual stocks, I'd recommend reading Stocks for the Long Run by Ben Graham--it's pretty much the Bible of value investing. Also this may sound like a funny recommendation, but "Starting and Running a Profitable Investment Club" has some really good information about how to analyze stock fundamentals using publicly available data (it also has several chapters on how to set up an investment club which you could ignore). If you can get access to it, the Value Line Investment survey has all the data you need to do fundamental analysis, and they also provide their own analysis and ratings. Subscriptions to Value Line are expensive, but most libraries carry it (and some offer access online).

I only keep about 10% of my money (fun money) in individual stocks. My biggest winners have been GOOG and UA (Under Armour) which have doubled to tripled. My worst pick was YRCW (Yellow, Roadway, Conway trucking company) which went bankrupt, and GE, which I bought soon before the financial crash and goes to show that no matter how safe a stock looks it can still drop in half.

In the near term I plan to take a look at HD (like RG) and Lowe's and I'm thinking of buying more Qualcomm. I'm also thinking about selling MCD. Remember that deciding when to sell is just as important (or more) than when to buy.


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## mudpuppy (Jul 29, 2014)

Road Guy said:


> (did I mention I really like Vanguard?)


+1 Yeah Bogle!



Road Guy said:


> But since I have a healthy amount in a 457-B Plan and I can take that money out without the 10% penalty at any age so I am leaving that there as my rainy day fund- hope to never use.. I am not sure why government plans allow the money to be take out without the penalty (its specific to local governments) but I wont argue...


I don't know anything about 457-b plans, have to go do some reading. Does the money go in pre-tax or after tax?

I fully fund a Roth IRA partially because you can always withdraw your contributions without penalty, however you don't get a tax break for them. But it's nice to have that peace of mind that if anything ever goes really bad that money is there. Plus you never have to pay tax on the earnings (to be fully honest this is why my tax rate is so high--I get no deductions for my Roth IRA or Roth 401k contributions. But I'll be paying almost no tax once I retire.)


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## iwire (Jul 29, 2014)

i buy solid gold and buried in my backyard. Also I m invested heavily in ammos and ar-15

But seriously, I found it 529 college fund or stock that has dividends is the best. I am been real lucky in stock..have a healthy ROI


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## Ivory (Jul 29, 2014)

Careful when choosing a financial adviser. They make their money pushing products that are not always the best choice. Many advisers charge upto ~3%. They use the S&amp;P500 performance as a gauge to determine if they gave sound advisement or not. If they beat the performance of the S&amp;P500 they say they did well. My advise for the long run is to do it your self. Invest in a mutual fund like the S&amp;P500 index and save the 3% commission per year. Since the S&amp;P500 is well diversified and used as a bench mark for performance, I think it is a no brainer just dump all your investment money into this index.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 29, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> KF, I wasn't trying to pick on you, just want to make sure people go into this with eyes wide open, the main point being financial advisers have very little legal obligation to you, so it's always a good idea to do your own homework. Which it sounds like you have done.
> 
> I will argue with your response a little bit though. "More qualified" is pretty subjective because it doesn't take all that much education to be a financial planner--obviously some planners have a lot of education and decades of experience, but some do not. I'd also argue in some cases against the idea the it's not worth your time. The answer to this really depends on how your adviser is paid. A lot of advisers (not all--and I'm not saying this is true in your case) are paid as a percentage of assets, such as 1% per year. 1% doesn't sound like much, but if you're starting with $100k, over 30 years that 1% could cost you $200k (the difference between 7% and 8% return). In that case spending a couple hours a month keeping tabs on your investments works out to $275/hour (fatty money!).
> 
> ...


It was difficult to determine if the comments were general or specifically directed. Understandable now. I do appreciate the insight and suggestions you have to offer on this topic. But obviously this was something that both LadyFox and I spent quite a bit of time researching. And most of what I read on my own basically referenced what you indicated that it's hard to find an adviser who doesn't work for themselves. I also agree that perhaps they aren't necessarily more qualified, but they do spend a good deal more with certain things than I would have time for. But it certainly sounds like this is something you know very well. Perhaps I should send you our portfolio to see how we measure up. What's your going rate these days? 

Retirement/investing is worth my time, unfortunately I'm plain out of it. It also doesn't help that finance doesn't necessarily interest me as much as say technology (or engineering for that matter). So my "spare" time is spent researching components and configurations so I can provide the best parts and options for my clients. Perhaps I'll have more spare time for another "hobby" once grad school is done with.


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## Krakosky (Jul 30, 2014)

At my new job, I can select to have my retirement contribution either before tax, into a Roth 401k, after tax or a combination of these three. At my last 2 jobs I was having it taken out before taxes.

Thoughts?

The company will match 50% up to 8%. Previously I was putting in 10%. Is it worth it to put in greater than the 8% even tho it won't be matched?


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## mudpuppy (Jul 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> Retirement/investing is worth my time, unfortunately I'm plain out of it. It also doesn't help that finance doesn't necessarily interest me as much as say technology (or engineering for that matter). So my "spare" time is spent researching components and configurations so I can provide the best parts and options for my clients. Perhaps I'll have more spare time for another "hobby" once grad school is done with.


Dude, not to mention a kid and a business, oh and a day job lol.



knight1fox3 said:


> Perhaps I should send you our portfolio to see how we measure up. What's your going rate these days?


LOL, I don't charge. But on the other hand figuring out what investments are suitable for someone else takes some time to get to know them as far as their goals and risk tolerance. Without that, any advice I'd have would be biased toward my own tendencies.



Krakosky said:


> At my new job, I can select to have my retirement contribution either before tax, into a Roth 401k, after tax or a combination of these three. At my last 2 jobs I was having it taken out before taxes.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> The company will match 50% up to 8%. Previously I was putting in 10%. Is it worth it to put in greater than the 8% even tho it won't be matched?


I wouldn't recommend after tax contributions to your 401k. This could be an option if you've already maxed out your regular or Roth contributions, but it may be better to open a brokerage account because you have many more options that way. In both these cases you're not getting any tax advantages and your tax filing gets a lot more complicated.

As for traditional versus Roth 401k contributions, that's a more difficult decision. With traditional accounts you get a tax deduction for your contributions, but you have to pay tax when you withdraw the money when you retire. With a Roth, you don't get the tax deduction now, but you never pay tax on that money again. So it partially depends on your tax situation now versus what you think it will be after you retire. So if you're in a high tax bracket now but will not be when you retire, then the traditional is better, or if you plan to spend lots of money in retirement the Roth may be better. The Roth has an advantage if you plan to max out your contributions because it effectively lets you save more than the traditional and for this reason I put all my contributions in the Roth. Another advantage of the Roth is you can withdraw your contributions with no taxes or penalty after the account has been open 5 years, which can be handy as an ultimate emergency backup plan.

In the end, it might be a good idea to split your contributions between the Roth and traditional, as that will give you the greatest flexibility to control your taxes when you're retired. Just make sure you're not bumping yourself into a higher tax bracket.

As for your last question, I agree with RG that you should always put away enough to get your company match. Otherwise you're throwing away free money. But beyond that it's never a bad idea to save more!* Personally, after hitting the company match I like to put money into a Roth IRA because it gives you the ability to invest in anything you want instead of the few options available in the 401k--stocks, bonds, mutual funds, commodities, real estate, pretty much anything you can own, you can invest in an IRA. However, if you don't have the investing bug like I do and you don't want to spend the time to figure out where to invest an IRA then contributing more to the 401k is certainly a good idea.

*I will add, though, there are times when it doesn't make sense to invest more in retirement. Mainly if you have high-rate debt such as credit cards. It's better to pay that off before saving more. Or if you don't have enough emergency cash saved to get by if you lose your job.


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## ALBin517 (Jul 30, 2014)

I have only been putting 4.5% into my 401 but my employer (gubment) matches with 9.5% so it's a no-lose. Most of that cash goes into a Milestone 2035 fund which is on pace to earn about 20% this year.

I feel like I should improve my Long Term Disability though. Our union contract includes LTD but the amount has not increased in decades so it has to be insufficient. The main problem with LTD seems to be that most insurance agents don't sell it.


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## Supe (Jul 30, 2014)

X2 on Mudpuppy's comments. My only concern with the Roths are talks of whether the gubment will change the taxation rules and eventually hit you again upon withdrawal, but that is just hearsay.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 30, 2014)

we do it ourselfs. We have looked into advisors but locally our options are basically our old neighbor. Granted he has done *very* well for himself but the fees ameriprise charges are sort outragous in our opinion....and then there is the separation of business and friends.


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## kevo_55 (Jul 30, 2014)

We use Vanguard for our non-work financial stuff.

I am not too savvy financial-wise but Mrs Kevo is. I will admit, we do get some good returns with the funds we use at Vanguard.


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## YMZ PE (Jul 30, 2014)

Supe said:


> X2 on Mudpuppy's comments. My only concern with the Roths are talks of whether the gubment will change the taxation rules and eventually hit you again upon withdrawal, but that is just hearsay.




This sounds just a little paranoid.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 30, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> As for your last question, I agree with RG that you should always put away enough to get your company match. Otherwise you're throwing away free money. But beyond that it's never a bad idea to save more!* Personally, after hitting the company match I like to put money into a Roth IRA because it gives you the ability to invest in anything you want instead of the few options available in the 401k--stocks, bonds, mutual funds, commodities, real estate, pretty much anything you can own, you can invest in an IRA. However, if you don't have the investing bug like I do and you don't want to spend the time to figure out where to invest an IRA then contributing more to the 401k is certainly a good idea.


I believe the goal for your 401k is to maximize your annual contribution of $17500, correct? After that you look to other investment options, yes?


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## Road Guy (Jul 30, 2014)

^- thats our goal, take advantage of the pre tax and then do other investments..


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## ktulu (Jul 30, 2014)

+1 for Vanguard.


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## mudpuppy (Jul 30, 2014)

knight1fox3 said:


> mudpuppy said:
> 
> 
> > As for your last question, I agree with RG that you should always put away enough to get your company match. Otherwise you're throwing away free money. But beyond that it's never a bad idea to save more!* Personally, after hitting the company match I like to put money into a Roth IRA because it gives you the ability to invest in anything you want instead of the few options available in the 401k--stocks, bonds, mutual funds, commodities, real estate, pretty much anything you can own, you can invest in an IRA. However, if you don't have the investing bug like I do and you don't want to spend the time to figure out where to invest an IRA then contributing more to the 401k is certainly a good idea.
> ...




Yes and no. Maximizing your 401k contributions isn't a bad idea, but a Roth IRA gives you the same benefits as a Roth 401k with the added benefit of being able to invest in anything you want instead of the handful of options your employer chooses for you in the 401k. So if you're a do-it-yourselfer the IRA option gives you a lot more flexibility without giving up anything (unless you're a couple with a taxable income over $181k/year, then you can't contribute to a Roth IRA).

So for those who want to do the work to open an IRA I recommend:

Put enough in your 401k to get the company match

Then maximize your Roth IRA ($5500/year per person)

Then maximize your 401k contribution ($17500)

Then look into taxable accounts

If you don't want to bother with selecting funds, though, there's nothing wrong with maximizing your 401k first before going into the IRA--you don't lose anything either way, it's just the IRA is more flexible.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 30, 2014)

Ok thanks. For now (as mentioned above...LOL) we're going for the max 401k contribution. I believe I'm currently at 12% and LF is 8 or 10%.


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## Road Guy (Jul 30, 2014)

I have always had really good options in the 401K's that I have had, basically the same depth of choices provided by my vanguard IRA's. Not sure if they were just tied to bigger companies, but we noticed most of them offer (not the exact funds) but very similar to what they offer in their IRA's


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## mudpuppy (Jul 30, 2014)

Some 401ks are better than others. If you're happy with your 401k then that's great. But IRAs still offer more options--if you open an IRA with a brokerage (say E-trade or Scottrade) you can buy individual stocks or individual bonds. You can buy gold bars or pork bellies or even buy a house in an IRA as an investment. Not saying that's a great idea, but it's possible. Of course, not all IRAs offer these options, but the tax law allows IRAs to offer these options.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 30, 2014)

^ my inlaws are looking to buy farmland with their IRAs, but they haven't quite grasped the fact that the GOOD farmland isn't going to be on the market long enough for them to plan a visit to it before they pull the trigger.


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## Road Guy (Jul 30, 2014)

they were giving away free land in Kansas last time I drove through there...sign said it had water and util. access..


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## MetsFan (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm glad this thread has sparked some good discussions. I hope it becomes an outlet where we can share our ideas all the way into retirement 



mudpuppy said:


> I'm a big fan of Bogle--that guy is a legend. It's hard to go wrong with his ideas about indexing and keeping costs low.
> 
> If you're interested in selecting individual stocks, I'd recommend reading Stocks for the Long Run by Ben Graham--it's pretty much the Bible of value investing. Also this may sound like a funny recommendation, but "Starting and Running a Profitable Investment Club" has some really good information about how to analyze stock fundamentals using publicly available data (it also has several chapters on how to set up an investment club which you could ignore). If you can get access to it, the Value Line Investment survey has all the data you need to do fundamental analysis, and they also provide their own analysis and ratings. Subscriptions to Value Line are expensive, but most libraries carry it (and some offer access online).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations. Some others I have on the list are A Random Walk Down Wall Street, The Richest Man in Babylon, and The Millionaire Next Door. I'm waiting for them to be returned to the library since I won't get rich slowly by spending money on something I'm probably only going to read once. 

I've only just started investing in stocks and so only have about 5% into it. I figure that's enough for now until I learn the ins and outs of trading.



mudpuppy said:


> So for those who want to do the work to open an IRA I recommend:
> 
> Put enough in your 401k to get the company match
> 
> ...


Is there a way to contribute to a 401K that's not by your company? Ideally, I would contribute to the match, then maximize my Roth IRA, then contribute up to the $17,500 using Vanguard.


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## mudpuppy (Jul 30, 2014)

MetsFan said:


> I'm glad this thread has sparked some good discussions. I hope it becomes an outlet where we can share our ideas all the way into retirement
> 
> Thanks for the recommendations. Some others I have on the list are A Random Walk Down Wall Street, The Richest Man in Babylon, and The Millionaire Next Door. I'm waiting for them to be returned to the library since I won't get rich slowly by spending money on something I'm probably only going to read once.
> 
> I've only just started investing in stocks and so only have about 5% into it. I figure that's enough for now until I learn the ins and outs of trading.




Millionaire Next Door is a great book. It isn't really about investing, but more about the philosophies and life outlooks that self-made millionaires tend to have. There is a sequel to it as well--I don't remember the name but it mentions that engineers are one of the most adept professions at becoming millionaires.

I'll have to look into your other suggestions.



MetsFan said:


> Is there a way to contribute to a 401K that's not by your company? Ideally, I would contribute to the match, then maximize my Roth IRA, then contribute up to the $17,500 using Vanguard.




In most cases no, unfortunately. A few 401k's give the option of a "window" that lets you pass money into a brokerage account that you can then use to buy whatever you want. I wish mine did this but I don't think it's very common.


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## engineergurl (Jul 30, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> Millionaire Next Door is a great book. It isn't really about investing, but more about the philosophies and life outlooks that self-made millionaires tend to have. There is a sequel to it as well--I don't remember the name but it mentions that engineers are one of the most adept professions at becoming millionaires.






I know The Compound Effect and The Slight Edge both touch on the concepts of Millionaire Next Door, but think they are by different people...


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## Ivory (Jul 30, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> MetsFan said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad this thread has sparked some good discussions. I hope it becomes an outlet where we can share our ideas all the way into retirement
> ...


Some employer 401K plans have an option for you to set up self-directed brokerage account where you can move upto 75% of what you have into it. This allows you to invest in what ever you want. It also allows moving it back into your primary 401K plan at anytime. This is becoming more common every day. If your employer 401K plan does not have this capability, why not just ask your benefits department if they are planning on adding this to their 401K plan. They will either be clueless and look at you like you have 2 heads or they may look into providing it. I do not think it adds anymore cost to the employer.


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## mevans154 (Jul 30, 2014)

I have my 401k and IRA maxed out, and have been investing any extra money I accumulate with LendingClub.com. It's a peer-2-peer lending site which matches borrowers with investers.

I have been actively investing for 15 months now and have averaged a 15.5% return!

I like Lending Club because it's a income investment, where most of my 401k and IRA investments tend to be geared more towards growth.

Anyone else investing with Lending Club??


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## Supe (Jul 30, 2014)

I haven't, but have heard only good things about it. Another automotive forum I'm on had an entire thread dedicated to it, and I was surprised to see the number of users who had success with it.


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## MetsFan (Jul 30, 2014)

Ivory said:


> Some employer 401K plans have an option for you to set up self-directed brokerage account where you can move upto 75% of what you have into it. This allows you to invest in what ever you want. It also allows moving it back into your primary 401K plan at anytime. This is becoming more common every day. If your employer 401K plan does not have this capability, why not just ask your benefits department if they are planning on adding this to their 401K plan. They will either be clueless and look at you like you have 2 heads or they may look into providing it. I do not think it adds anymore cost to the employer.




Thanks, I'm going to ask and see what they say. The Merrill Lynch guy (plan administrator) told me they're having a meeting in August to go over changing the plan to a different platform, so there's some hope.


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## snickerd3 (Jul 30, 2014)

t rowe price handles our states deffered comp stuff...the state just recently decided they were no longer going to provide the service free of charge. So without making an annoucment they are now charging a $7.50 fee each quarter.


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## mevans154 (Jul 31, 2014)

I have some "ocean front property in Kansas" I'm selling if anyone wants to invest their hard earned money!!!

:rtft:


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## Ship Wreck PE (Jul 31, 2014)

What about Arizona??


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## matt267 PE (Jul 31, 2014)

mevans154 said:


> I have some "ocean front property in Kansas" I'm selling if anyone wants to invest their hard earned money!!!
> 
> :rtft:


Make the investment now. After global warming completely melts the the polar ices, Kansas will have ocean front.


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## Lumber Jim (Jul 31, 2014)

matt267 said:


> mevans154 said:
> 
> 
> > I have some "ocean front property in Kansas" I'm selling if anyone wants to invest their hard earned money!!!
> ...


where in Kansas could there ever be ocean front? The elevation change across the state is what, 4 feet, from the bottom of the ditches to the crown of the road?


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## engineergurl (Jul 31, 2014)

Lumber Jim said:


> matt267 said:
> 
> 
> > mevans154 said:
> ...




http://www.kansasfreeland.com/home

why bother invest money when you can get it for free....


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## matt267 PE (Jul 31, 2014)

Lumber Jim said:


> matt267 said:
> 
> 
> > mevans154 said:
> ...


A PLS would have to figure that out.


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## matt267 PE (Jul 31, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> http://www.kansasfreeland.com/home
> 
> why bother invest money when you can get it for free....


Does it come with free bacon, beer, and pie?


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## engineergurl (Jul 31, 2014)

matt267 said:


> engineergurl said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.kansasfreeland.com/home
> ...




I think that only is for the single guys looking for a mail order bride...


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## matt267 PE (Jul 31, 2014)

hmm, damn, I'm out.


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## ALBin517 (Jul 31, 2014)

Why do we need to invest for retirement when the government is running social security for us?


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## engineergurl (Jul 31, 2014)

There is going to be an economic collapse due to the grid going out after a solar flare caused by Putin anyway so all that fictional money will be gone and you'll only get by if you have guns, booze and gold


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## Lumber Jim (Jul 31, 2014)

engineergurl said:


> There is going to be an economic collapse due to the grid going out after a solar flare caused by Putin anyway so all that fictional money will be gone and you'll only get by if you have guns, booze and gold






does this have anything to do with Sharknados?


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## engineergurl (Jul 31, 2014)

Lumber Jim said:


> engineergurl said:
> 
> 
> > There is going to be an economic collapse due to the grid going out after a solar flare caused by Putin anyway so all that fictional money will be gone and you'll only get by if you have guns, booze and gold
> ...




that is a phenomenon that is a suspected related side effect but only in theory as there has been no proven link


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## Dean Agnostic (Feb 18, 2018)

When we enter into an agreement with someone, I enclose the provisions below to remind the parties that life is hard, painful, long, and beautiful; and that one super great broker can make you colorblind. 

*[SIZE=11pt]WHEREAS, [/SIZE]*Partner/Investor One and Partner/Investor Two hereby state that we are investors who are seeking to accumulate wealth, and to pursue financial happiness. The parties *affirm to refuse strangers, financial experts, or experts to make my financial decisions for the parties. *


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## diegoshevchuk (Aug 21, 2020)

A very interesting topic, (although no one wrote anything here for a long time) I found a lot of new things for myself


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