# Took the PE early but still waiting on experience, can I jump states?



## ModestMussorgsky (Oct 3, 2016)

About me: Illinois Civil EIT for 28 months, passed the PE at the 10 month mark.  I'm considering leaving my state, but am wondering what difficulty I may run into if I choose to do so.

Do I need to move to another "early" state to have credit for passing the PE?

Could I move to any state and get credit for already taking the test, and pull a license in that state at the 4 year mark? (I'm assuming that this one is the most obvious 'no')

Could I work in another state, use that left over experience to get a license in Illinois, and then apply for license in that state?

Could any other non early state deny me a license (and require me to retake the exam) solely because I took the test early?

Thanks for the help all.


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## smahurin (Oct 4, 2016)

You shouldn't run into problems, you'll be fine.  You'll still have to accrue the required experience, but it doesn't matter than you took it early.  You'll apply for comity in your future state, list the passed exam date, list your experience and other req's, doesn't really matter that you took the exam early and don't have your license yet.  All states have differrent regulations, and in general just care that you meet their requires (exam passed, experience, other specific requirements) while a state may impose a specific required order for people to TAKE the exam in their state, for those who take the exam out of state, they accept that information for what it is.

For example, I live in MT (a non-SE state) I took the SE exam in MT and recently got my SE license in alaska through comity, even tho I never had an SE license to begin with, again because state regulations vary.  There are states such as utah where you're required to wait 3 years after receiving your PE in order to take the SE and subsequently receive your license, doesn't matter that I took my SE 3yrs early by that states standards, but I still just have to wait to meet their specific experience requirements.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 4, 2016)

I was at a conference and the issue of "Decoupling" (Separate the test and experience requirement) was discussed at length.  Tennessee is evaluating the feasibility of allowing decoupling because of complaints that engineers have given to their elected state representatives.  At the present time in TN, an applicant has to have 4 years progressive experience before being allowed to sit for the P&amp;P exam.  To get around that, engineers are going to Kentucky (A Decoupled state) to take the P&amp;P test early.   After obtaining 4 years experience, they are getting initially licensed in Kentucky, then applying for licensure in TN by comity (TN requires 4 years experience before taking the test and will not allow you to get your initial license if you have not waited the 4 years before the exam, while Kentucky does not have that requirement).

Worst case is that you would have to get licensed in "Decoupled state" (KY, NV, etc.) and then immediately apply for a license in the state you desire by comity.


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## Maji (Oct 4, 2016)

This is the reason why I believe that there should be ONE national license. For people who work in multiple states, it will save them money and more importantly, there will be uniformity.


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## smahurin (Oct 4, 2016)

Rugger, do they actually need to get the KY license in order to apply in Tennessee?  While most people take comity to mean "reciprocity" that's not really the case. I would imagine that you could take the exam in KY, then apply for comity in TN without ever receiving the KY license, you'd just fill out the passed PE information, etc.  To my knowledge there is no requirement in any specific state that a person actually obtain a license in the original state in which they took the PE (or any other exam, see my SE experience) in order to qualify for comity in another state.  Although someone could certainly prove me wrong there.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 4, 2016)

Tennessee will not let you take the If you do not have 4 years’ experience, but if you and take the P&amp;P test in another state prior to getting 4 years’ experience you cannot get your *"initial"* license in Tennessee.  You would have to get it in Kentucky or another decoupled state and apply for comity in Tennessee.  I was at the ASCE/NSPE/ACEC state convention and this was discussed in detail.  The state head of NSPE/ACEC, who lobbies the legislation on behalf of the engineering community, stated she had been approached by some legislators asking for clarification.  She stated at the convention that some constituents were complaining to their elected legislator that they could not get their initial licensed in Tennessee if they have took the test early in another state, but  they could get their license if the applied by comity immediately after obtaining their initial license in another state.  The issue was being brought up because she felt if the membership of NSPE/ASCE/ACEC did nothing, the state legislation might "legislate this requirement out" if they kept getting complaints.


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## gpoli111 (Oct 5, 2016)

I can see the draw in taking it before you've reached your 4 years of experience. This way even if you fail once or twice before passing you still ensure you can have your PE at the moment you reach 4 years of experience.


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## smahurin (Oct 5, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> Tennessee will not let you take the If you do not have 4 years’ experience, but if you and take the P&amp;P test in another state prior to getting 4 years’ experience you cannot get your *"initial"* license in Tennessee.  You would have to get it in Kentucky or another decoupled state and apply for comity in Tennessee.  I was at the ASCE/NSPE/ACEC state convention and this was discussed in detail.  The state head of NSPE/ACEC, who lobbies the legislation on behalf of the engineering community, stated she had been approached by some legislators asking for clarification.  She stated at the convention that some constituents were complaining to their elected legislator that they could not get their initial licensed in Tennessee if they have took the test early in another state, but  they could get their license if the applied by comity immediately after obtaining their initial license in another state.  The issue was being brought up because she felt if the membership of NSPE/ASCE/ACEC did nothing, the state legislation might "legislate this requirement out" if they kept getting complaints.


Interesting, thanks for the insight.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 5, 2016)

The trend is going towards decoupling the test from the 4 years experience requirement.  My opinion, for what it is worth,  is that more states will start allowing you to take the P&amp;P test prior to having 4 years progressive experience.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 5, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> The trend is going towards decoupling the test from the 4 years experience requirement.  My opinion, for what it is worth,  is that more states will start allowing you to take the P&amp;P test prior to having 4 years progressive experience.


I don't see that being the trend at all. At least not from the information that has been presented at various recent NSPE meetings. One of the main premises around the PE exam is exactly as it is described, principles &amp; practice. If they decide to remove the work experience requirement, it ultimately then becomes just principles and is seemingly a continuation of the FE.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 5, 2016)

Decoupling:



Recently approved in Texas

Currently done in Nevada, New Mexico, Kentucky, Louisiana, Illinois, South Carolina,
and Wyoming

California (allows PE exam and licensure at 2 years now)

Oklahoma, Oregon and North Carolina (pending legislative changes)

Tennessee and Maine considering

This may or may not meet one's definition of a "trend",  but it is becoming more common.


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## dalkey (Oct 5, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> Tennessee will not let you take the If you do not have 4 years’ experience, but if you and take the P&amp;P test in another state prior to getting 4 years’ experience you cannot get your *"initial"* license in Tennessee.  You would have to get it in Kentucky or another decoupled state and apply for comity in Tennessee.  I was at the ASCE/NSPE/ACEC state convention and this was discussed in detail.  The state head of NSPE/ACEC, who lobbies the legislation on behalf of the engineering community, stated she had been approached by some legislators asking for clarification.  She stated at the convention that some constituents were complaining to their elected legislator that they could not get their initial licensed in Tennessee if they have took the test early in another state, but  they could get their license if the applied by comity immediately after obtaining their initial license in another state.  The issue was being brought up because she felt if the membership of NSPE/ASCE/ACEC did nothing, the state legislation might "legislate this requirement out" if they kept getting complaints.


Hmm, that's good to know. I was told less than a year ago by someone from the licensing board in Tennessee that I would not need to become licensed in Kentucky before becoming licensed in Tennessee if I took the test early in Kentucky. Do you think I was misinformed?


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 5, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> Decoupling:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I don't consider 16% to be a trend necessarily. But there are a few states you listed that I didn't know waived the (4) year requirement so thanks for the info. Also, when it comes to changing state legislatures, I don't hold much hope for those in a "consideration" phase. :thumbs:


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## ruggercsc (Oct 5, 2016)

From what I understand, you cannot get your "_*initial"*_ license in Tennessee if you took the P&amp;P test before you had 4 years progressive experience.  The board members presented this at a presentation and went into detail at the NSPE/ASCE/ACEC conference last month.  The reason Tennessee is considering this  is because constituents like your self have complained to their legislators and their legislators went to the board and asked what for their opinion.  They were presenting it because they felt if they took no action, there was a chance that it might just be introduced into legislation without their input.


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## dalkey (Oct 5, 2016)

Well I can see why they complained because when I asked in January of this year, my specific question was will I need to become licensed in Kentucky and then apply by comity to Tennessee, or can I just use my test results from Kentucky (and I was clear that I would not have my years of experience in when I took the test). The answer I got was that I could use just my test results. Really wishing I had saved that email because my work email deletes everything over three months old, but I thought that would be the end of the issue. I guess I'll have to get back with them and see what's up because there seems to be some misinformation floating around. I mean, it wouldn't be terrible for me to become licensed in Kentucky since I live 5 miles from the state line and my current project even straddles both states and has some Kentucky specs on it, but it still would've been nice to have a one step process.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 5, 2016)

I would complain to my state representative and senator.  That is where the pressure to change is coming from.

I got licensed in both because one of our projects is in both states also.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 5, 2016)

On the subject of emails:

At the same conference I attended a session on "email" presented by an attorney.  He was going over how email has changed how he defends clients and one has to be extremely careful what to put in email.  He did say that most IT experts have no idea when all traces of an email actually disappear, but it is a long time.  After the Apocalypse, Armageddon, Rapture, Planet of the Apes, etc. chances are your emails will still be there.


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## ModestMussorgsky (Oct 6, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> Decoupling:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh wow, California requires only 2 years?  Does that experience have to be in California?  If not, then I will move there right away!  Its actually one the states I've been considering leaving IL for.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 6, 2016)

I am not licensed in California but believe they have additional requirements (i.e. other exams) you may have to pass before becoming licensed. Someone from California may chime in with their experience.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 10, 2016)

@ptatohed


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## Lomarandil (Oct 10, 2016)

Correct, CA only requires 2 years post-graduate experience (6 years total including undergrad). That experience does not need to be earned in California. In exchange, Civil Engineers take two additional exams, a Seismic exam, and a Survey exam, 2.5h or 3h long each. Those are actually Computer-Based Tests and can be taken at any approved testing site (Prometrics, I think) across the country.

I don't know the specifics of how they address taking the test prior to the experience requirement being fulfilled.


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## ptatohed (Oct 10, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> I am not licensed in California but believe they have additional requirements (i.e. other exams) you may have to pass before becoming licensed. Someone from California may chime in with their experience.




I am assuming you are Civil.  If this is the case, and you are licensed in any other state and want to obtain a CA license, CA will accept your passed NCEES 8-hr test but you'll need to take two separate 2.5 hour, 55 multiple choice CBT exams.  CA-Survey and CA-Seismic.  You can read more about these tests on BPELSG's site or in the CA Surv/Seis subforum.  Good luck.


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## kevo_55 (Oct 10, 2016)

opcorn:

I'm just waiting for the  :whipping:

Say, anyone see that dead horse anywhere?


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## Ken PE 3.1 (Oct 10, 2016)

Food for thought, from Louisiana's site...


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## ruggercsc (Oct 10, 2016)

That would suck.

Does anyone know if that has actually happened to anyone (having to retake the P&amp;P test because they took it early in a decoupled state and are trying to get licensed in another state)?


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## glockjacket P.E. (Oct 10, 2016)

ruggercsc said:


> That would suck.
> 
> Does anyone know if that has actually happened to anyone (having to retake the P&amp;P test because they took it early in a decoupled state and are trying to get licensed in another state)?


I've asked before, no one jumped with actual personal experience.  Always referred to a few states that I didn't want to live in anyways.

but again, no actual personal experience

I took it early and passed, i'm not worried about it.  I still have 4 months of waiting left...missed the fun so much i decided to take a second PE exam...mildly regretting signing up for a second one now but oh well.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 11, 2016)

I guess it's unclear to me why anyone would NOT want to wait to get the typical (4) years experience. The whole premise behind it (which ultimately can only aid testing efforts), is to gain practical application experience.


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## smahurin (Oct 11, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> I guess it's unclear to me why anyone would NOT want to wait to get the typical (4) years experience. The whole premise behind it (which ultimately can only aid testing efforts), is to gain practical application experience.


But all experience is not created equal, and while it sounds great the PE is simply a continuation of the FE.  In terms of test prep it's probably easier for people to roll through their FE senior year of college and then take their PE soon after.  As a civil/structural engineer I hadn't looked at a transportation/hydraulics/hydrology problem since my junior year of college (6 years before I took my PE: senior yr+2yr grad program+3yr experience).  While I got more proficient in structural engineering, almost half of my exam was over items I hadn't looked at in 6 years.


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## knight1fox3 (Oct 11, 2016)

smahurin said:


> But all experience is not created equal, and while it sounds great the PE is simply a continuation of the FE.  In terms of test prep it's probably easier for people to roll through their FE senior year of college and then take their PE soon after.  As a civil/structural engineer I hadn't looked at a transportation/hydraulics/hydrology problem since my junior year of college (6 years before I took my PE: senior yr+2yr grad program+3yr experience).  While I got more proficient in structural engineering, almost half of my exam was over items I hadn't looked at in 6 years.


I respectfully disagree. And in that case, I would add that the particular field of engineering chosen didn't quite relate to the specific degree of study (obviously this isn't a blanket statement). The comment that the PE is simply a continuation of the FE is arguable. Yes portions of it are. But other test material is (or should be) geared toward practical application. And why NCEES also invests a lot of time and resources into it's continual development. There's a reason that the majority of state licensing boards have this (4) year requirement. But perhaps it's something that should be reviewed periodically.


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## willsee (Oct 11, 2016)

I took mine early due to wanting to start a family and I didn't want to study with a newborn. 

I was originally licensed in Illinois (taking exam early) and now I'm licensed in Kentucky, Indiana, and Tennessee and no issues so far.  Of course I now have nine years of experience (Five after my original license) so I don't know if that has anything to do with anything.


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## ruggercsc (Oct 11, 2016)

At the Conference Session I attended where decoupling was discussed and under consideration, family commitments was one of the main reasons the board stated as a reason for considering allowing for taking the exam early.


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## smahurin (Oct 11, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> I respectfully disagree. And in that case, I would add that the particular field of engineering chosen didn't quite relate to the specific degree of study (obviously this isn't a blanket statement). The comment that the PE is simply a continuation of the FE is arguable. Yes portions of it are. But other test material is (or should be) geared toward practical application. And why NCEES also invests a lot of time and resources into it's continual development. There's a reason that the majority of state licensing boards have this (4) year requirement. But perhaps it's something that should be reviewed periodically.


Not to dive too far down the "field vs degree" discussion, but people taking one of the 5 "CIVIL" specification PE exams comprise roughly half of all PE test takers each cycle (last cycle 57% of test takers took a CIVIL exam). While some civil's handle several of the 5-fields, IE WRE and construction or some other combo, many of us specialize in one of those specific areas and don't touch any of the others.  I can't speak to other discipline's exams, and I don't want to overgeneralize too much, but we're roughly looking at 50% of PE test takers sitting for an exam in which half of the exam has nothing to do with their 4-years experience.


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