# &*[email protected]##** Garage Doors



## Road Guy (Jun 21, 2012)

Well when it rains it poors...

Wife went to open garage door yesterday.. the metal bracket that holds the opener to the garage door decided to remove itself from where it was attached..

close inspection reveals that they use fairly small sheet metal screws to hold this bracket..

as not wanting to spend a grand on a new door.. anyone had this issue, I was thinking about getting some carriage bolts and trying to re attach, and at least get bye for a year or so..


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## roadwreck (Jun 21, 2012)

Is this the bracket that is attached to the door itself? Labeled as the "door bracket" in the diagram below?


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## MA_PE (Jun 21, 2012)

Assuming you have a conventional chain-drive opener, are you talking about the bracket at the top of the door that connects to the trolley on the opener?

There is no reason you cannot through drill and connect with some carriage bolts.


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## roadwreck (Jun 21, 2012)

^^

what MA said


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## snickerd3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Our garage door looks like it has been fixed as described.


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## Road Guy (Jun 21, 2012)

meant to attach this photo, but I think yes


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## roadwreck (Jun 21, 2012)

Is the door panel bent? If you do opt to replace the bracket you may want to try to find a way to disperse the load across a wider area or stronger portion of the door. From that picture it looks like the existing bracket was deforming the door.


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## MA_PE (Jun 21, 2012)

^ what RW said.


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## Road Guy (Jun 21, 2012)

its hard to tell from my crappy picture, but there is a T shaped piece of metal that runs the entire length of the door that I think is "supposed" to disperse the load...

This is a 15 year old metal door, I think the new ones are much lighter, I am gonna take a stab at this tonight but if it doesnt look right Im just gonna doa Home Depot 6 months same as cash and let them install a new door..

Its the 16' garage door.. we never park in the garage, part of me really wants to frame it in and do one 10' garage door and ad a regular door off to the side, but I think not haveing the "double " garage in the future would hurt my house resale..


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## roadwreck (Jun 21, 2012)

Does the tension on the garage door need to be adjusted? The door shouldn't be that hard to open/close if the tension in the springs is adjusted properly. This may be the real cause of the problem. I'd hate to replace a whole garage door just for a broken bracket.


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## mudpuppy (Jun 21, 2012)

How much is a replacement door? Replacing it yourself really isn't that big a deal. . . I did both of mine (9' doors), reusing the exsiting track and everything. Wasn't much of a hassle. Two doors for about $500 total.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2012)

I would also look at the rails/wheels. The motor may be struggling to lift the door iIf one of the rails is slightly off or the wheels need to be re-lubricated. I know there are several garage-door repair men out there who would be able to do a complete "tune-up" to get it back up to snuff (address everything discussed so far plus more) for much cheaper than buying a new door.


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## MA_PE (Jun 21, 2012)

The first step in diagnosing any opener problem is to confirm the door operates properly. A properly balanced door should be able to stay open midway without any support and require only marginal assitance to open or close from there.

Do you have two springs at the soides or a single torsion spring over the top of the door?

With extension springs, new springs, pulleys and cable can work wonders. On another note, grease is not recommended for the rollers, etc. Brush on some motor oil (used is ok). GRease will build up and get thick with time and the oil will not.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> On another note, grease is not recommended for the rollers, etc. Brush on some motor oil (used is ok). GRease will build up and get thick with time and the oil will not.


Agreed. I edited my earlier post to say lubricate instead of grease...


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## engineergurl (Jun 21, 2012)

my garage door was not functioning properly... it would open, and close, but the little sensor things weren't working, so you had to stand in the garage and hold the button down to override the sensors... after 3 years, I finally called someone... $130... they tightened the screw that connected the sensors to the operator by like a quarter of a turn... lesson learned for me...


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## Capt Worley PE (Jun 21, 2012)

Makes me glad we don't have garage doors.


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## snickerd3 (Jun 21, 2012)

RoadWreck...I just noticed your avatar...hilarious. Both of my friends babies are chunkers like that. One is 2 months old and wearing 6 month clothes already...if they did a picture with a little wagon that would be it exactly...


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## MA_PE (Jun 21, 2012)

FWIW, on many doors you know the sensors are an issue if the door won't close and the light blinks 10 times. The first thing to check is alignment. They have LEDs on each sensors. One (sender) is always lit indicating power, the other (receiver) lights when it get a goo signal from the sender. The receiver LED should be on steady without any flickering. A small adjustment can make the diference.

EG: Too bad you didn't post here first. We could have gotten it figured out.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2012)

^^^ My sensors are setup so one is a sender/receiver and the other is a reflector. The reflector is a concave mirror similar to the ones used by survey teams that work no matter which way the mirror is pointed (as long as it's at least facing close to the right direction). This way we only have one wire.


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## engineergurl (Jun 21, 2012)

yes, I'm sure when I said, none of the lights on them would come on at all, y'all would have told me that there was no connection/power/magic running to them...


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## roadwreck (Jun 21, 2012)

snickerd3 said:


> RoadWreck...I just noticed your avatar...hilarious. Both of my friends babies are chunkers like that. One is 2 months old and wearing 6 month clothes already...if they did a picture with a little wagon that would be it exactly...


I just thought the expression on his face (which doesn't really come across in the avatar) was fantastic!







(uh oh I assumed it was a boy even though he isn't wearing blue hmy: )


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 21, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> FWIW, on many doors you know the sensors are an issue if the door won't close and the light blinks 10 times. The first thing to check is alignment. They have LEDs on each sensors. One (sender) is always lit indicating power, the other (receiver) lights when it get a goo signal from the sender. The receiver LED should be on steady without any flickering. A small adjustment can make the diference.
> 
> EG: Too bad you didn't post here first. We could have gotten it figured out.


Those damn sensors provide more trouble than they do safety. I know ours are aligned properly but my house faces north. So in the morning when the sun comes up, the sunlight shines directly at one of the sensors which distorts the beam enough to not allow the door to close. In the evening when the sun is setting, again the same problem. I need to dig into it to see if I can just disable them. I've seen people mount the sensors out of the way so they point directly at each other but I am wondering if I can just connect the signal wires.


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## FLBuff PE (Jun 21, 2012)

Can you mount them farther inside the garage, so that the sun doesn't hit them directly? I often have the same problem with mine.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jun 21, 2012)

You may be able to replace them with a different style. I have a west-facing garage and never had a problem so far [knock on wood].


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## knight1fox3 (Jun 21, 2012)

FLBuff PE said:


> Can you mount them farther inside the garage, so that the sun doesn't hit them directly? I often have the same problem with mine.


I will look at doing that but was hoping to not mess with the mounting/re-alignment. I did put some short cardboard tubes around the sensor head to try and shield them from the light but the angle of the sun still gets in there.


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## pbrme (Jun 21, 2012)

I would be looking at the spring tension also. Be very carefull with this, if you don't know what your doing you could get mamed. Using carriage bolts or other thru bolt would also be fine on the bracket. Again, if your not comfortable with knowing the spring troubleshooting, call for the tuneup guy as mentioned above. Youtube videos are good as well.


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## Road Guy (Jun 21, 2012)

It is the kind that has the spring over the top of the door, its the 16' door so I think most of them are that way...

The door worked fairly well until the wife tried to open it and it pulled the bracket off..

I'm not gonna mess with that type of spring though, I may just drill new holes in the bracket and if that doesnt work call the Overhead Door People (or whatever they are called)


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## MA_PE (Jun 21, 2012)

Good plan. I wouldn't screw around with a torsion spring. Did you check and see if it's broken?


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## engineergurl (Jun 21, 2012)

Road Guy said:


> It is the kind that has the spring over the top of the door, its the 16' door so I think most of them are that way...
> 
> The door worked fairly well until the wife tried to open it and it pulled the bracket off..
> 
> I'm not gonna mess with that type of spring though, I may just drill new holes in the bracket and if that doesnt work call the Overhead Door People (or whatever they are called)


Careful, they charged me $130 to tighten a screw remember?


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## Road Guy (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm not a blonde....


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## engineergurl (Jun 21, 2012)

umm... neither am I....


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## pbrme (Jun 21, 2012)

Road Guy said:


> It is the kind that has the spring over the top of the door, its the 16' door so I think most of them are that way...
> 
> The door worked fairly well until the wife tried to open it and it pulled the bracket off..
> 
> I'm not gonna mess with that type of spring though, I may just drill new holes in the bracket and if that doesnt work call the Overhead Door People (or whatever they are called)






be sure to hire a licensed ODP. Who's payed thier registration fees. And get a signed contract.


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## Rockettt (Jun 22, 2012)

ive overtightened them coil springs and when I let that baby go, took my buddy right off the ladder! That is why you put the bolts in the ends of the tracks. i bet all 4 panels woulda came flying out the end and on top of him if werent for them bolts.

But he's quite athletic i must say. held onto it and rode it out until it hit the end bolts and away he went into a bunch of clutter in the back of the garage. I could BARELY get down from my ladder as i was laughing so freeking hard my eyes were watering!

hahaha im cracking up just thinkin about it.


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## MA_PE (Jun 22, 2012)

Rockettt said:


> ive overtightened them coil springs and when I let that baby go, took my buddy right off the ladder!	That is why you put the bolts in the ends of the tracks. i bet all 4 panels woulda came flying out the end and on top of him if werent for them bolts.
> 
> But he's quite athletic i must say. held onto it and rode it out until it hit the end bolts and away he went into a bunch of clutter in the back of the garage. I could BARELY get down from my ladder as i was laughing so freeking hard my eyes were watering!
> 
> hahaha im cracking up just thinkin about it.


yeah, it would have been even funnier if he got seriously hurt or killed.

I believe that you're talking about the extension springs, two total, one at the end each track. the correct way to work on those is to put the door up, put some c-clamps in the track, at the opneing to prevent the door from closing, then set the springs in the "relaxed" position with only light tension on them. When set, operate the door and see if they are tensioned correctly. If further adjustment is needed, repeat the process until it's correct.

RG has a single torsion spring at the door head. It is tensioned by winding the torsion spring and then locking the tension in. If I recall correctly, there are marking on the spring and depending on the weight of the door, the spring is tension a specific number of turns. This has to be done while exposed to the full kinetic energy of the spring. I don't recommend this for a DIYer, call a professional.


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## Rockettt (Jun 22, 2012)

haha. yea they are at the top of the opening. torsion spring setup at the top. clamp and turn. I let that clamp off and baby he went sailing! he wasnt gonna get hurt haha. We did what the instructions said and wasnt hardly doing anything. so we improvised. Didnt want to clamp again so we went a little extra for insurance haha.

I do everything myself. need a roof? i put it on. about the only thing i wont do is my own dentistry. I like my teeth!


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## jeb6294 (Jun 23, 2012)

MA_PE said:


> FWIW, on many doors you know the sensors are an issue if the door won't close and the light blinks 10 times. The first thing to check is alignment. They have LEDs on each sensors. One (sender) is always lit indicating power, the other (receiver) lights when it get a goo signal from the sender. The receiver LED should be on steady without any flickering. A small adjustment can make the diference.
> 
> EG: Too bad you didn't post here first. We could have gotten it figured out.


Our sensors are conveniently mounted on the ceiling just above the opener so we never have a problem with them. It's got the automatic reverse if it hits something so it's not like it's going to crush one of the kids or anything...much.


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## Rockettt (Jun 25, 2012)

ya them sensors are a pain. just set the reverse light enough it'll reject to a fly.


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## jeb6294 (Jun 25, 2012)

When I was a kid we had forgotten something at home so dad and I ran home to get it real quick. This was when we had our old school 16' wood door with the old Genie opener. As I was jumping out of the car to run in the house dad hit the button to open the door. What he didn't tell me, as I turned around to say something to him, is that to save a little time he pushed the button again so the door stopped about halfway up (lord knows that extra 2 seconds would have made all the difference as we were backing out the driveway). I turned around just in time to run face first into the door while running full tilt.


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## Road Guy (Jun 25, 2012)

Well I spent about 2 hours bolting the plate back onto the door.. If I kept all my tools in one place it wouldn't have taken so long.. But I think something is still wrong and I can't tell if it's the door track, spring or the opener..

Door closes with no problems

When I go to open it, it will only open if I hold the button down continuously. If I just hit the button it only opens about a foot. If I hold the button down the opener bends a little as the arm moves the door fully to the open position. There's also was more bounce in th door than there was before.

I assume something must be wrong with the track, spring, etc? Visually I can't see any damage to the tracks or wheels. I hate to call a "professional". But just don't know what to do, I bought some garage door lube from the home depot but that didn't really seem to do anything.....

And to re summarize, it's a 16' door with the single spring above the door...


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## cdcengineer (Jun 25, 2012)

Hold the button down for now and run it into the ground. When it no longer works at all, than have it replaced


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## engineergurl (Jun 25, 2012)

wait... kinda sounds like what I did... minus the two hours you spent....


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## engineergurl (Jun 25, 2012)

please don't ban me.... but you DID call me blond....


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## Road Guy (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm just out 5 bucks and a lot of sweat from being in the garage.. The top bar had to be removed from the door and reinstalled, so there was work involved....  .


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## MA_PE (Jun 26, 2012)

Sounds like somethings binding on the track. If I recall correctly, although there is only one spring at the top of the door it is pinned in the middle and at each end. Therefore i think it's possible to break one side with the other still tensioned. This would cause the door to rack bercause it's pulling unevenly. Whe the spring is initially installed they paint a white line along one side. As the door guy winds the center, he can count the number of turns based on the markings.

You might check and see if the soring is broken. There is a tension setting on the opener that cuts out if it's working too hard. Holding the button down would overrride this.

If you can't see something obvious I say call a door guy to take a look.


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 2, 2012)

knight1fox3 said:


> Those damn sensors provide more trouble than they do safety. I know ours are aligned properly but my house faces north. So in the morning when the sun comes up, the sunlight shines directly at one of the sensors which distorts the beam enough to not allow the door to close. In the evening when the sun is setting, again the same problem. I need to dig into it to see if I can just disable them. I've seen people mount the sensors out of the way so they point directly at each other but I am wondering if I can just connect the signal wires.





knight1fox3 said:


> FLBuff PE said:
> 
> 
> > Can you mount them farther inside the garage, so that the sun doesn't hit them directly? I often have the same problem with mine.
> ...


Well this has now become my new summer project. To try and come up with a solution for these damn sensors. Becoming quite annoyed. Here are the sensors I currently have:

http://www.amazon.co...er+Safety+Beams

And here is a set I was looking to possibly get:

http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top

The replacement sensor reviews talk about how sunlight didn't affect them. But that may be just because they are new. I tried looking around to see if I could find a sensor setup that used a laser and/or retro-reflective setup but everything seems to be infrared. I looked at remounting the sensors further inside the garage, and this really isn't a good option. I might try adding some additional cardboard tube shielding to see if that makes a difference. If nothing works and I do end up having to re-mount, I'm putting them on the ceiling pointed toward each other a couple inches away. Basically disabling the safety beam altogether.


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## engineergurl (Jul 2, 2012)

at that point in time, I would try to use a hammer to fix it first


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## knight1fox3 (Jul 2, 2012)

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


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