# Gator at Disney



## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2016)

The other horrible news in Orlando covered this story up but anyone see this about the gator grabbing a two year old at a Disney Park /Resort?

unreal and so sad for the child, not sure why parents cant keep a hand on their kids lately...


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 15, 2016)

I didn't see this!  Very tragic indeed.


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 15, 2016)

There was no covering up of this story.  It was all over the Boston news this morning.  Three awful tragedies in Orlando two senseless shootings and a horrible death for a 2-year old.

just awful, awful happenings.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2016)

Not an actual "cover up" just edged out the story is what I meant....


----------



## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 15, 2016)

Parents weren't to blame for this one RG.  From the news that I've seen the parents both tried to fight the gator to get the kid back but were unsuccessful.  Apparently there are signs saying no swimming/playing in the water etc. but no signs or warning from Disney that the water was inhabited by gators (it wasn't one rogue gator, they found at least five (5) while searching for the child). 

The problem seems to lay with Disney on this one.

Tragic incident, especially considering where it occurred.


----------



## mudpuppy (Jun 15, 2016)

The problem definitely is NOT on Disney.  All water in Florida has alligators.  People get them in their backyard pools.  No different than a swimmer getting bit by a shark, it's on the swimmer.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 15, 2016)

Disney will pay up in court...

There is a big difference in "no swimming" and "keep out Alligators present"!

Especially since we all know how smart the average Disney guest is...

Still just terrible can't even imagine..


----------



## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 16, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> Disney will pay up in court...
> 
> There is a big difference in "no swimming" and "keep out Alligators present"!
> 
> ...


This is exactly my point.  Disney caters specifically to families with small children.  If the boy had drowned, it would still be tragic, but I would say it's not on Disney since they had signs posted.  Getting grabbed by a gator in an area where Disney presumes is safe for families is definitely Disney's fault.


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

Disney was built on a swamp, and is surrounded by swamp. It truly is terrible what these parents must be feeling, but in a state where more than 90% of fresh and brackish water bodies have gators, it should be known to stay out of the water. I don't see the difference in no swimming and keep out, alligators in water. Both say to stay out of the water regardless if there is an immediate threat. I live about 10 minutes outside of orlando, and grew up 40 minutes from it. It has been a crazy few days to say the least. It is pretty amazing to see how the city has come together during everything.


----------



## Ramnares P.E. (Jun 16, 2016)

There is a clear difference in the dangers inherent to "No swimming" vs "Dont get in the water, gators present" 

I may be wrong, but the news article didn't mention what state the family was from. We should not just assume that everyone who goes to Florida knows the waterways are gator infested.


----------



## kevo_55 (Jun 16, 2016)

^^ The parents were from Nebraska.

It's very tragic. Of course this could have been prevented. I'm sure that Disney will need to pay up in the end.


----------



## SNAPE/SMOTT PE (Jun 16, 2016)

mudpuppy said:


> The problem definitely is NOT on Disney.  All water in Florida has alligators.  People get them in their backyard pools.  No different than a swimmer getting bit by a shark, it's on the swimmer.


This gator attack happened the same day a 5 year old was attacked by a shark at a local beach. News covered both.

Can't say who is at fault in the gator attack (Disney or parents). Very sad situation, but the family can bury the boy and get closure now that the body has been found.

I have personally seen people bait the water with blood to attract sharks (fishing for them) at our local beach. So is it really the swimmers fault if they are unaware the water is being baited, and end up being attacked?


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

Ramnares P.E. said:


> There is a clear difference in the dangers inherent to "No swimming" vs "Dont get in the water, gators present"
> I may be wrong, but the news article didn't mention what state the family was from. We should not just assume that everyone who goes to Florida knows the waterways are gator infested.


That's similar to saying our state water management districts should be responsible to post "alligators in water" at every public access point to state managed waters. I can assure you, they do not. If the lake is totally private, then Disney will probably have to pay. I just don't think they should. Especially if they had a sign stating to not be in the water.


----------



## mudpuppy (Jun 16, 2016)

If someone gets eaten by a bear at Yellowstone, is it the park's fault?  What if they get eaten by a bear on a private ranch?  The ranch is liable because they didn't warn people there might be bears?  How about someone gets stung by a bee in my back yard and dies because they're allergic... am I liable because I didn't warn them there might be bees?  At some point common sense has to take over.  The natural world is naturally dangerous.

If Disney had deliberately stocked the lake with alligators and then didn't warn people about them, they yeah they'd be liable.  But this was a naturally occurring alligator in the wild, which is common in Florida.  No warning should be necessary

But I do agree that Disney is going to pay, and it will be long before this goes to court.  They're already getting plenty of bad PR on this, and the last thing they'd want is more PR from going to court.


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 16, 2016)

How sad is it that in this country, everytime anything horrible happens the first questions are "who is responsible?" and "who's going to get sued/have to pay?"

Truly a tragic event but I can't really say that disney is to blame.

The toddler was just a complete tragedy.  The local news had a story of a NH guy who was attacked by an alligator at Disney 30 years ago. He fortunately survived but he's still got some nasty scars.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/15/nh-man-recalls-alligator-attack-disney-world/ 

"Not an actual "cover up" just edged out the story is what I meant...."

RG:  I knew what you meant but the media coverage of the story of this little boy at least equaled the shooting news around here.  The senseless killing of the Voice singer kind of got lost in the fray, though.  Awful stuff...all of it.


----------



## jeb6294 (Jun 16, 2016)

[SIZE= 16px]The rule in Florida is, if it's fresh water, it's gonna have gators in it.[/SIZE]

I've heard reports that there were signs saying "No Swimming" and that there were "No Swimming" signs and signs about alligators.  Either way, it could come down to who has the best lawyer(s).  It's been 30 years, but I've stayed at the Grand Floridian where this happened and THERE'S A BEACH AT THE RESORT!!!  Signs or not, if you don't want people going in the water, then why is there a beach?


----------



## mudpuppy (Jun 16, 2016)

They used to allow swimming, prior to about 1990.  I haven't found a definitive reason why they no longer allow it, wikipedia says due to the ferry traffic, others speculate due to issues with brain eating amoebas.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

Yellowstone is a great example. There are literally thousands of signs saying "yes there are grizzly bears here and they will kill you" -they even have Signs inside the bathrooms.

You also can't camp east of Yellowstone without being in an RV. There are signs...

And I do agree that it's crap that lawyers will get paid, but that's the world the baby boomers

Made for us 

Ironically there are no signs in the Colorado wilderness that say you can fall to your death climbing mountains...


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

mudpuppy said:


> They used to allow swimming, prior to about 1990.  I haven't found a definitive reason why they no longer allow it, wikipedia says due to the ferry traffic, others speculate due to issues with brain eating amoebas.


Usually the amoebas are in very shallow stagnant water bodies. I would think that lake is a little deeper, but there are a lot of places along the St. John's river that are nasty in the summer time.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

I grew up spending a month or more in Florida every summer , my grandparents lived in vero beach. We used to sit on back deck and watch the gators travel from one canal to the other..

Was just at disney in March (unfortunately) never honestly crossed my mind that there would be gators on Disney property. Considering the great lengths they go to make the park what it is..


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

They are everywhere. I have seen them in salt marshes, pools, porches, and the beach. It would be very difficult to completely remove them from that size of a lake.


----------



## snickerd3 (Jun 16, 2016)

when we were planning our disney vacation 2 summer ago, I considered the alligator factor in selecting hotels.   That place has prime gator habitat so it was crossed off the list.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

I put good money on Disney putting together some type of plan to get the majority of them removed from their lakes from now on though...

Couple rednecks in an airboat with a 30-30 every day should do it


----------



## snickerd3 (Jun 16, 2016)

the gator patrol.


----------



## kevo_55 (Jun 16, 2016)

Swamp People.


----------



## willsee (Jun 16, 2016)

Wife was born/raised in Miami and she said the same thing "if it's water, it has gators".  We started looking at some houses thinking of moving to Florida and if it was anywhere near a manmade lake or water it was a no-go. 

Truly tragic event either way.


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

I'm a 6th generation Floridian and grew up in a house built on an old gator farm. Sure you can get rid of the Gators you see, but they move around a lot. I watched one walk across an on ramp to state road 417 to get to a tennis court sized pond on my way back from the PE exam. He was about 8'. Florida is strict with how gators can be killed. We don't have the rules like Louisiana where you can run around and shoot them. Has to be done with a bow or hook. They have to be finished with a bang stick.


----------



## snickerd3 (Jun 16, 2016)

bang stick...like a stick of TNT?


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

snickerd3 said:


> bang stick...like a stick of TNT?


Like a rod with a .357 mag at the end. You get the gator close and hit the sweet spot behind the skull. No trigger, the head has to be pushed down, like a stapler.


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 16, 2016)

DuckFlats said:


> Like a rod with a .357 mag at the end. You get the gator close and hit the sweet spot behind the skull. No trigger, the head has to be pushed down,* like a stapler.*


that made me LOL.

Some news reports I've seen said that Disney closed the lake due to water quality issues.  They had a massive search for the little boy and ended up killing ~5 gators.  Given the number of gators in/around the area that doesn't sound like too many.  I've been to the Orlando FLA amusement a few tiems in my life and truthfully I've never considered the liklihood of encountering a gator in or around the parks and especially Disney.  Being a new englander we just never gave it a second thought....I will now.


----------



## jeb6294 (Jun 16, 2016)

To have a truly gator free area Disney would have to put a (pretty significant) fence around the entire property, including through any water from the surface down to the bottom.  Ain't gonna happen.  The funny thing is, they've always done all kinds of stuff on that lake that have people in the water, i.e. jet skis, water skiing, parasailing, etc.

If you want another blast from the past, one of my favorite water parks ever was River Country at Disney.  You can still see the ruins of it on Google Maps down by Fort Wilderness.  It had kind of a Tom Sawyer theme and used filtered water from the lake.  Some kid died from some brain eating amoeba that they tried to say came from the water park.  I'm sure that didn't help, but I've heard the reason it closed is because it became too popular but was too small to support that many people.


----------



## jeb6294 (Jun 16, 2016)

BTW, even though it was filtered, it was still fresh water so there's nothing to say a gator wouldn't wander over and make himself at home in the park.


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

Best way I could describe it haha.


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

Very big fence, non chain link. They can climb chain link fences.


----------



## mudpuppy (Jun 16, 2016)

"We'll build a wall.  It'll be Huuuuuuuuuuuuge!  We'll make the gators pay for it."


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)

and on that note, A gator killed a child?! Ban all gators.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 16, 2016)

DuckFlats said:


> Disney was built on a swamp, and is surrounded by swamp. It truly is terrible what these parents must be feeling, but in a state where more than 90% of fresh and brackish water bodies have gators, it should be known to stay out of the water. I don't see the difference in no swimming and keep out, alligators in water. Both say to stay out of the water regardless if there is an immediate threat. I live about 10 minutes outside of orlando, and grew up 40 minutes from it. It has been a crazy few days to say the least. It is pretty amazing to see how the city has come together during everything.


lusone:


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

Overall I agree with the sentiment that animals do animal things and this isn't anyone faults  (except the parents), I am just a problem solver at heart.  I do think if Disney employed a "ranger' with a special use permit from the state they could eradicate most of the gators, but it would be a full time job.  Since Disney pretty much owns the state  I don't think they would have a problem getting a permit. sort of how the states will giver farmers special permits to kill deer at night in pecan fields, etc..

Maybe Florida has done too good of a job with the wildlife management of gators that they need to increase the hunting in the surrounding counties a bit.  

A few years before we moved here a mountain lion snatched a young girl off a trail who had run ahead of her parents outside of boulder (they never found the child).  Here in elementary school they teach the kids what to do if they see a mtn lion or a bear, but I would imagine if a mountain lion snatched a 3 year old kid off the edge of the ski slopes at one the family friendly resorts like Keystone, there would be some " reaction" on the part of the resort.


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

Hey @DuckFlats, whereabouts did you grow up?  I'm a product of the Polk County School System myself.  Grew up in Davenport, graduated from Haines City High School.

Now, about the gators.  Yes, it is a well established fact that Florida's water bodies are generally inhabited by gators.  However, people visiting Disney are not going to be aware of the threat species of the area.  They are going to Disney to have a fun-filled family vacation and assume that Disney does what Disney does, make things tourist proof.  Nobody expects anybody to bone up on their Florida wildlife survival skills before going to Disney, I mean, let's be honest here.  These parents made no mistake.  They did nothing that any other parent wouldn't have done, and the kid wasn't "swimming" in the water, just wading.  Regardless of the signs, kids will splash in water when it's hot out.  Don't kid yourself and think that you or your kids would have behaved differently.  If there doesn't appear to be a threat and you are in a cultivated place with a beach and lifeguards (LIFEGUARDS people, LIFEGUARDS, so tell me that swimming is truly discouraged) and it's a hot day and you're spending hundreds of dollars a night to enjoy a world famous vacation spot, you're gonna let junior splash around a little bit, tell me you won't... I dare you.

Now that said, I don't really think Disney is at "fault" on this per se, either.  They did have signs saying no swimming.  Gators are indigenous to Florida, just like sharks are indiginous to the ocean.  You can't go around putting signs out in front of every body of water saying that there is a chance (a very low probability) that you might become a reptilian stool sample if you wander into the water.  I mean come on people, this was just simply a very terrible tragedy that devastated the family and no doubt devastated the other guests and the cast members who worked there and the sherrif's deputies who responded.  It's a horrific event, but nobody really did anything wrong.  It just sucks, that's all.

Of course, you all are 100% right though about the fact that Disney will end up paying this family to settle.  I guarantee they've already comped the family the entire trip, probably comped all guests at the Grand Floridian their hotel stays because this kind of thing tarnishes everybody's experience.  I'd also be willing to bet that Disney won't even try to fight it.  They recognize it was a horrible tragedy that happened on their watch and at their property and will just pay.  They have the money, they will own it, and they will implement some sort of control to keep it from ever happening again.


----------



## P-E (Jun 16, 2016)

^yes


----------



## mudpuppy (Jun 16, 2016)

I agree with Sapper's sentiment, just want to mention this happened at 9 PM, and the lifeguards were likely stationed at the adjacent swimming pools.  There's a kiddie pool right next to the lake.


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)

mudpuppy said:


> I agree with Sapper's sentiment, just want to mention this happened at 9 PM, and the lifeguards were likely stationed at the adjacent swimming pools.  There's a kiddie pool right next to the lake.


and on that note&lt; who keeps their 2 YO up at 9 pm? Mine is asleep 730-8

:dunno:


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

Its Disney, they run till midnight some nights, gotta get them dollars!


----------



## kevo_55 (Jun 16, 2016)

8 pm Central time is 9 PM Eastern.

I could see this kid being out that late. Besides, it was a family vacation.


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)

kevo_55 said:


> 8 pm Central time is 9 PM Eastern.
> 
> I could see this kid being out that late.


this is a valid point. you guys all have broken clocks, the further west you travel. I keep forgetting this


----------



## snickerd3 (Jun 16, 2016)

people too cheap to pay for a sitter service while they go out and party...9 pm Fl time is 8pm central time...so it isn't that late


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 16, 2016)

Sapper, I'm from northern Brevard and currently live in Seminole.

How do you tag someone on Tapatalk?


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

Plus it's still pretty bright this time of year at 9 PM in Florida.  Kid probably couldn't have slept even if his parents tried to put him down.  Most likely, they were winding down after a day in the parks, dad was probably sitting there letting the kid get the last of his energy out before heading to the room.


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 16, 2016)

9:00PM is dark and if tyou're on the East coast then 9:00PM is 9:00PM.  Not that it matters but when w took the kids to Disney and they were 3 and 5yo our daily routine for the week was wake up and get out the door by ~8:30AM and head to one of the theme parks.  Stay until ~5:00PM and then head back to the hotel.  We stayed at the Club Lake Villas.  Eat dinner at one of the quick family oriented and not-too-expensive places ~6:00.  go back to the room, unwind get the kids ready for bed.  Kids in bed by 8-8:30 and then lights out.  I used to grab the newspaper and sit outside with a beer until maybe 9:30 while wife stayed with the kids in the room.  Start it again at ~8 the next morning.  Not crazy but I can't say I'd have my kid at teh beach and in the water (even wading) at 9:00+PM.


----------



## roadwreck (Jun 16, 2016)

My 16 month old typically stays up until 8:30-9pm.  On a holiday (where we would presumably be sleeping in) I could totally see being up a little later then that.  Add in the time change and I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a 2 year old to be up at that hour.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

This is one of the benefits that I could never afford to stay at an "on Disney Resort" I guess..

Gators are extremely fast and could even snatch someone off the beach even if they were not in the water.  But its our job as parents to keep the kids alive until 16 or whenever they start leaving the house on their own.. My wife is overly cautious as hell and if there was a sign that said no swimming she would have made sure there was none of our kids in the water.  Cant say that I would have lost too much thought myself to be honest.  My wife was almost in panic attack mode in Yellowstone, not for just bears but on most all the hikes there were random boiling water coming out in little pools everywhere. Close to the road they have them marked as "stay out" but out an about they are everywhere (Indians used to cook their fish in them)


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

Actually, MA, you're not correct.  Florida is quite a bit further west than Massachussets.  9 PM in Florida has a different amount of light than 9 PM in Boston.  That said, I'm not saying it's full blown daylight, I'm saying it's still quite bright.  There is enough light left to play on the beach at the end of a long day, and even if it isn't really bright, there are lights and making a judgement about parenting and letting a kid be up at that time is based on your perception, not what all parents do.  You and your family may be in bed early, but not everybody is, my family certainly did not get to bed early in April when we were in Florida on vacation.  My wife and I left the kids with my parents one night and went out for the evening and got back at midnight to the sight of my dad, mom, and all three kiddos watching a movie in the living room at midnight.  It happens, kids stay up late on vacations.  Hell, in the past month, I've let my kids swing outside at dusk in their PJs, why?  Because it was nice weather and why not.  Am I such a bad parent that I deserve to let a bear come pick them off?


----------



## MetsFan (Jun 16, 2016)

9pm isn't that late.  On non-school nights, my kids will stay up till around that time.  They'll stay up later if they're on vacation.  Last time we were in Disney, we were out till the park closed.

It's a terrible tragedy.  My co-worker told me he saw an alligator not 10 feet from one of the picnic tables at Fort Wilderness.  At the same time, his 5 year old daughter was running toward it not realizing it was there.  He ran after her and luckily managed to scoop her up before she got too close.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

I find it interesting people reactions to this story versus the Gorilla story from a few weeks ago..


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

I just looked it up, in Orland (today, but close enough to two nights ago) sunset is at 8:25 PM, civil twilight from 8:25 to 8:52, nautical twilight until about 9:25 PM and astronomical Twilight begins after that.  Civil twilight and nautical twilight there is still visibility.  http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/usa/orlando


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

I feel the same about the gorilla story.  The parent didn't do anything wrong there either.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

the moral of the story is people should take their kids to The Grand Canyon, Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, etc and not these miserable theme parks!  There is way more to do there than one would think..


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)

don't get me wrong. I don't think that the parent is wrong, in either case. I do think that it is a horrible incident. my point about the time, was based soley on my experiences with my own kids. but between the time differences, as well as the overall excitement of the vacation, I could def see how/why the child could still be up


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

DuckFlats said:


> Sapper, I'm from northern Brevard and currently live in Seminole.
> 
> How do you tag someone on Tapatalk?


I'm not sure how to tag with Tapatalk.  I stopped using Tapatalk a long time ago.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

@Sapper PE

Test


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

I just get defensive I guess because I hate to think about these parents who really are doing nothing worse than anybody else and suffer a terrible tragedy but also have the ridiculous burden of having to deal with judgement and hurtful comments from the court of public opinion.  I could not imagine the anguish these parents are going through.  To think there are folks out there who are saying they are bad parents because they are the victims of a tragic sequence of events just doesn't sit well with me.  If something horrific happens and the parent is not hovering over the child, then it's the parents fault.  But if the parent hovers 100% of the time then the parent is a helicopter parent who needs to let the kids make their own decisions.  I mean, people can't win these days.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

Fail


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 16, 2016)

Where's @Ken PE 3.0?  He hates Tapatalk.

Agree with most of the sentiments here. Now that I have the full story, I don't feel it's any fault of the parents (or the park really, but still on their "corporate" watch).  The whole thing just sucks all around and I hope they can eventually get past this traumatic event.  Having said that, being a mid-westerner (or as RG often says, "Yankee"), as kids on hot days we'd wander into any body of water with public access to cool off.  However, my first trip to FL as a senior in HS, having known what kind of area of the US we'd be in, I was terrified to go near ANY body of water or swamp type area (posted or not).  We even steered clear of road culverts, LOL.  But that is a distinct difference in perception I guess.


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)

knight1fox3 said:


> Agree with most of the sentiments here. Now that I have the full story, I don't feel it's any fault of the parents (or the park really, but still on their "corporate" watch).  The whole thing just sucks all around and I hope they can eventually get past this traumatic event.  Having said that, being a mid-westerner (or as RG often says, "Yankee"), as kids on hot days we'd wander into any body of water with public access to cool off.  However, my first trip to FL as a senior in HS, having known what kind of area of the US we'd be in, I was terrified to go near ANY body of water or swamp type area (posted or not).  We even steered clear of road culverts, LOL.  But that is a distinct difference in perception I guess.


fixt


----------



## Sapper PE LS (Jun 16, 2016)

I grew up swimming in lakes in central Florida.  Hell, I even would see gators on the far banks of some of the lakes I swam in.  I was never really concerned because I knew that gators don't typically attack humans (especially not teenager sized humans), to stay out of the murky water, only swim where it was clear, and don't get near any nesting areas.  People are in the water in Florida all the time, millions of people in the water probably a day in Florida in the summer time.  Rarely do you hear of a gator attack.  So, there is no reason why the parents or anybody would have been on alert for gators.  Anyway, I'm done thinking about this.  Yesterday, after I heard this news, I picked up my 2 year old boy and just held him for like 10 minutes.  I felt sad just thinking about it.  So horrible.


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 16, 2016)

I hear ya.  My 2.5 year old runs to me with a smile every day I pick him up from daycare.  Not sure what I would do if I couldn't do that anymore.


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 16, 2016)

I only speak to my experiences.  I know lots of people who let their kids stay up quite late.  To each his own. 

News stories on this incident have reported it was dark when the boy got attacked and that would've contributed to both the stalking of the gator to start with as well as making it more difficult to notice the animal approaching.

And I don't fault anyone in this incident, just a tragic and awful thing.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 16, 2016)

You can absolutely blame the parents in both scenarios, if I take my kid somewhere and he dies it's my fault because I took him.

When your kid is 2 it's your job to helicopter parent, not when they're 13


----------



## MetsFan (Jun 16, 2016)

^^


----------



## NJmike PE (Jun 16, 2016)




----------



## envirotex (Jun 16, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> Disney will pay up in court...


This will never see a court room.  Disney will make this go away.


----------



## SE_FL (Jun 16, 2016)

My buddy just got his permits for this years gator hunt (in September). But he wouldn't waste a permit on anything less than a twelve footer. The most common ones you see in these properties are babies (under 7') that get chased out of their home by larger guys during mating season, which just ended. The hunting permits are very limited and only good for a particular lake/swamp area, so only trappers will be allowed on Disney property and only with a nuisance permit from the state. With how many we see on a daily basis I don't really see why the alligator hunts are so restrictive.


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 17, 2016)

SE_FL said:


> My buddy just got his permits for this years gator hunt (in September). But he wouldn't waste a permit on anything less than a twelve footer. The most common ones you see in these properties are babies (under 7') that get chased out of their home by larger guys during mating season, which just ended. The hunting permits are very limited and only good for a particular lake/swamp area, so only trappers will be allowed on Disney property and only with a nuisance permit from the state. With how many we see on a daily basis I don't really see why the alligator hunts are so restrictive.


Nice! I'm in the middle of a boat rebuild to put my new longtail motor on and didn't apply. The motor was a gift from my wife for passing the PE!


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 17, 2016)

_I don't really see why the alligator hunts are so restrictive. _

especially after that odd bear hunt last year? What was the local story on that?  Someone at F&amp;W suddenly say there were too many bears?


----------



## DuckFlats (Jun 17, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> _I don't really see why the alligator hunts are so restrictive. _
> especially after that odd bear hunt last year? What was the local story on that?  Someone at F&amp;W suddenly say there were too many bears?


They aren't that restrictive. It's based on counts. But it's a pretty expensive process between tags and equipment.

The bear hunt got attention because people are dumb and think their teddy bear was getting hunted. It was based on years of research and population counts. Once they determine roughly how many bears are in a given area. They determine how much space is needed and available. The management efforts brought the bears from around ~300 I think to well over 4000. They were very conservative in the initial estimates. There is a bear management plan on FWCs website that had last year +\- a few years as the date when population control would be needed again.


----------



## hjg7715 (Jun 17, 2016)

Road Guy said:


> I find it interesting people reactions to this story versus the Gorilla story from a few weeks ago..


Yeah, there seemed to be very different narratives, and naturally part of the reason is because one of the incidents ended a lot more tragically. However, the blame and reaction to the parents seemed quite different. And I think it's perfectly okay to discuss the parents' roles in both incidents and still be compassionate and sympathetic towards them because my heart truly hurts for the parents in this latest incident. Hopefully something comes from both incidents so that these types of incidents are minimized.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 18, 2016)

Maybe I'll get to go mtn lion hunting while I am here... Animals be tying to eat everyone!

5-year-old boy attacked by mountain lion

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/mom-fights-off-mountain-lion-that-attacked-5-year-old-boy-in-pitkin-county

Yet almost every trail has signs that say mtn lions in he area, so many that you tend to not see them anymore....


----------



## MA_PE (Jun 19, 2016)

I tawt I saw a puddy tat!


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Speaking of attacks of this nature, saw this on the news last night:  http://www.9news.com/news/local/child-attacked-by-mountain-lion-in-pitkin-county/248018831



> PITKIN COUNTY, COLO. - A 5-year-old boy was attacked by a mountain lion at around 8 p.m. Friday.
> 
> The attack happened in the family's yard at their home near Lower River Road in the community of Lower Woody Creek about 10 miles northwest of Aspen.
> 
> The boy suffered injuries to his head, neck and face, according to the Pitkin County Sheriff's Office.


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 20, 2016)

youre 3 days late....


----------



## knight1fox3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Ya it seems like it took that long to make it to our news station. Or they were low on material. :dunno:

Or I just don't watch the news enough because it usually pisses me off.  LOL


----------



## Road Guy (Jun 20, 2016)

they say the most dangerous animal in CO is the moose.

Was walking though a shallow pond yesterday in the middle of no where (fishing with my kids) and one (female) came out of the woods and ran full speed through the pond (other side was maybe 300 feet away) but still scared the living shit out of me, those things can haul ass.  I could barely walk through the pond without getting my feet stuck not sure how they can run through them, guess they have them grand daddy long legs that go all the way up..

Just glad she was on the other side from us..... was one of those things that happens in about 5 seconds and was cool to see but hopefully not any closer than that


----------

