# Flu season - who's catching?



## cement (Jan 18, 2019)

Let's talk symptoms so we can spread paranoia as well as the virus (virui?).

I've been exposed to so much junk over the years  ld-025:  I should start an antibody bank.  It hit me last Thursday afternoon like a brick wall, headache in the right forehead, mild fever, non-productive cough, no energy.  But I drank a few gallons of water and various homeopathic remedies, dove into bed early and was back on my feet the next day.

My wife on the other hand, refuses to sit still and has a lingering cough that is messing with my sleep.  The homeopathic stuff tastes yucky so no thanks.  It hit her sinuses over the weekend, then she felt well enough for a business trip and I think the pressure change on the airplane injected the bugs into her ears.  She got Z-pack (antibiotic) from the doc for her ears and is feeling better now, but the cough goes on.  1 AM, 3 AM, 4:30...The guest bedroom is looking pretty good right now.

A co-worker had pretty much the same variant I had, felt good enough to come in for a meeting yesterday then was just about passed out on the conference table an hour and half a box of tissues later.


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## Road Guy (Jan 18, 2019)

Did you get a Flu Shot?


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## MA_PE (Jan 18, 2019)

I felt like carp pretty much all last week.  nagging cough clogged sinus, labored breathing with lots of phlegmy stuff, headaches, some light-headedness, generally weak and fatigued.  It started on Saturday and I stayed home from work on Monday and skipped the gym for another week (didn't go for the two weeks over the holidays).  Lots of sleep and based on the amount of light outside I either took NyQuil or DayQuil.  I felt better this week and actually went to the gym a couple of days but the runny nose/slight congestion lingers.

I did get a flu shot at the beginning of the season.

If either my wife or I are tossing/turning/generally disruptive to the other we have no hesitation in moving to the couch or another bedroom.  In fact, I spent a few nights there last week.


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## Road Guy (Jan 18, 2019)

I used to never get a flu shot until 3 years ago - I was at one of our field offices and right after lunch felt like shit so I drove home, this was on a Wednesday, I remember barely making it home and getting into bed, then I woke up sometime around Friday morning... after that I have listened to the wife and just gotten the flu shot -


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## envirotex (Jan 18, 2019)

I think it must be some new nasty stuff that's just mutated enough from whatever everyone had when they were kids to make you sick again, because same thing happened to me.  Never sick, then last year around Easter got so sick I couldn't get out of bed for four days.


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## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Jan 18, 2019)

I’ve been sick for about a week, finally showing signs of being on the mend. It seemed like the flu at first, because I was dizzy, achy, and felt like I had a slight fever. Then my sinuses started hurting like all heck, and I realized it was probably sinusitis. Now just getting over lost voice and congestion. It’s funny, I almost never get sick, but it seems like I get sick all the time now that I have kids.

Not really a flu shot guy...I’m not convinced of it’s effectiveness. Can anyone provide solid evidence for or against it sans any propoganda on either side?


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 19, 2019)

I hope logical people actually know the flu shot does next to nothing as far as it goes for preventing actual influenza. :dunno:


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## P-E (Jan 20, 2019)

KF it all depends on the year.

 I feel that the more shots you get, the more different antibodys you develop and anthing similar will be less severe.   I’ve been getting a shot since mini was born.  He was a premie so anything to prevent the flu was important.


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## jeb6294 (Jan 20, 2019)

Flu shots are mandatory at work...keeping my fingers crossed that they got it right this year.

I guess it isn’t technically mandatory, but if you don’t get it then you have to wear a mask anytime you’re in the hospital for the duration of flu season.


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## cement (Jan 20, 2019)

I got stomped on by the flu years ago, could barely get out of bed, felt like I had a 40 lb bag of cement on my chest.  I've gotten the t ever since and have had much milder versions since.


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## Dexman PE PMP (Jan 20, 2019)

Never had a flu shot. Don't think I've had the flu (If I don't remember having it, good chance is I haven't had it because you tend to remember that). Had several head colds and been knocked on my ass by allergies/sinus issues, but mostly back on my feet the next day.  I haven't had as many sinus issues after my surgery and allergy treatments a few years ago.  Found a nasal spray here that works really well called Dymista. A quick google search says its available in the US, must have been released recently because I hadn't heard of it before moving here.  Absolutely fantastic at opening things up. Only issue with it is that some genius had the brilliant idea to make it rose scented. For someone with allergy issues, the last thing you want to be smelling is grandma's perfume...


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## JayKay PE (Jan 21, 2019)

I got a flu shot, and I think it helped me miss the first strain/mutation that came through, but this second wave is taking people out left and right.  Not even sure it is the flu?  It seems to be a persistent cough that just slowly wears you down until exhaustion/crappy lifestyle takes you out.  A lot of people at my gym are getting z-packs due to it becoming viral are requiring antibiotics?  Either way, I'm trying to drink a ton of soup/avoid contact with people in general.  Might go on my 'liquid only'-diet of lipton soup to get a jump on it (because lipton noodle soup, though it has no nutritional value, has gotten me through many illnesses).


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## Road Guy (Jan 21, 2019)

The wife's job requires them to get  a flu shot - well they don't require it, you just cant work at the hospital without it..

I was always skeptical of them and never got them except for when I was in the army and they also forced them on you (&amp; tons of other shit) but after my weeklong ordeal I am going to get one from now on.


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## User1 (Jan 21, 2019)

I have gotten the flu once in college and was dead to the world for days, had a friend pickup my prescription meds bc i couldn't fathom getting off the couch to drive and pick them up myself. never had the flu shot until about 2011 when one of my best friends went in thinking he was just dehydrated and ended up hospitalized from the flu and they induced a coma because he was ripping everything out of him etc. we weren't sure he would wake up. he was out for 3 months. now, he wasn't the picture of health and I think they determined it wasn't the standard flu strain (swine or whatev else) but ever since then I've gotten the flu shot. so i am less likely to pass it on to my friends' babies too. 

I have felt fine all weekend, but when I got off the bus and was walking to work this morning i got a sudden onset of nausea and felt like I was going to puke. I breathed my way thru it and the cold air helped me relax, but I have no clue what that was - hopefully it does not come back, because I'm not about that life and I don't have time to get sick!! bleh


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## Dleg (Jan 22, 2019)

I am required to get a flu vaccination every year. 

If you are a skeptic, I suggest you read "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry . Not only will you understand how the flu virus and vaccinations work, but it is also a really fascinating tale of how modern medicine got started, how America led the way, and how truly awful an influenza pandemic can really be.  Very good read for a non-fiction, scientific/historical account.

It's either that, or sound like a Flat Earther when you ask for anyone on an engineering form to provide you with "solid evidence" that the flu vaccine works....


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## akwooly (Jan 22, 2019)

I get a flu shot every year and i have gotten the flu twice, once last year and another about eight years ago.  both times they were very "late"in the flu season, May and April.


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 23, 2019)

Dleg said:


> If you are a skeptic, I suggest you read "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry . Not only will you understand how the flu virus and vaccinations work, but it is also a really fascinating tale of how modern medicine got started, how America led the way, and how truly awful an influenza pandemic can really be.  Very good read for a non-fiction, scientific/historical account.


I'm allowed to be a skeptic because I have friends who have doctorates in not only medicine, but biology as well who have been able to refute a good portion of the information contained within said reference. That's not to say I'm against other vaccinations. But the flu shot is truly an exercise in futility. :thumbs:


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## Dleg (Jan 23, 2019)

Why do you say it's an exercise in futility? It provides you with antibodies against the epidemiologist's best guess as to what the prevalent flu strains will be. Sure, that's a bit of a crap shoot, but so is anything that attempts to predict what might happen in the future. Is your local weather forecast accurate out to 365 days?  And if they get it right, you're protected. You may still get infected, but since your immune system already has the antibodies, it can fight it off faster and hopefully prevent the severe reactions that lead to complications and death. Plus, now you've got the antibodies for that particular strain of flu, for when it starts circulating again.

50 million people died of the flu in 1917 - 1918. I certainly choose to protect myself and my family, even knowing they can't possibly get it right every year.


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 23, 2019)

Dleg said:


> Why do you say it's an exercise in futility? It provides you with antibodies against the epidemiologist's best guess as to what the prevalent flu strains will be. Sure, that's a bit of a crap shoot, but so is anything that attempts to predict what might happen in the future. Is your local weather forecast accurate out to 365 days?  And if they get it right, you're protected. You may still get infected, but since your immune system already has the antibodies, it can fight it off faster and hopefully prevent the severe reactions that lead to complications and death. Plus, now you've got the antibodies for that particular strain of flu, for when it starts circulating again.
> 
> 50 million people died of the flu in 1917 - 1918. I certainly choose to protect myself and my family, even knowing they can't possibly get it right every year.


No real point in debating it as you're no longer comparing things that are alike (i.e. the weather vs. something you virtually have more chance at winning the lottery than gaining actual protection from a flu shot). You have your mis-guided reasons, and I have mine. :thumbs:



Dleg said:


> 50 million people died of the flu in 1917 - 1918.﻿


LOL. Yes because modern medicine then was the same as it is today.


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## Dleg (Jan 23, 2019)

Please refer me to the lottery that has a 40 to 60% chance of winning.  



> CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well the influenza (flu) vaccine protects against flu illness. While vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine.


Source: CDC (and if you say we can't trust the CDC because &lt;conspiracy theory&gt;, then I guess we are done here.


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## kevo_55 (Jan 24, 2019)

I always get a flu shot.

Then again, I'm also a hypochondriac.


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## Master slacker (Jan 24, 2019)

knight1fox3 said:


> ... i.e. the weather vs. *something you virtually have more chance at winning the lottery than gaining actual protection from a flu shot*)...


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## csb (Jan 24, 2019)

Our office had two guys fall to strep throat last month, but so far we've been pretty healthy. I also am in a separate building on complex that has 16 people total, so we tend to be pretty isolated. I also have a very firm "TAKE YOUR SICK ASS HOME" policy.


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 24, 2019)

Dleg said:


> CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well the influenza (flu) vaccine protects against flu illness. While vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine.
> 
> Source: CDC (and if you say we can't trust the CDC because &lt;conspiracy theory&gt;, then I guess we are done here.


"Recent studies show....."

Please advise when more definite and accurate information is available such that the phrase above can be revised to, "Recent studies *CONFIRM*..."  And I'll also expect the corresponding technical report with supporting data to review accordingly. Thank you in advance. :thumbs:


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## JayKay PE (Jan 24, 2019)

Man, everyone getting really intense over if the shot works, whereas I'm still marveling over how tiny the single-serve shots are and how quickly I got my shot at CVS.


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## Ble_PE (Jan 24, 2019)

knight1fox3 said:


> "Recent studies show....."
> 
> Please advise when more definite and accurate information is available such that the phrase above can be revised to, "Recent studies *CONFIRM*..."  And I'll also expect the corresponding technical report with supporting data to review accordingly. Thank you in advance. :thumbs:


The real question is whether flu shots are Tony Horton approved.


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## Master slacker (Jan 24, 2019)

Well, immunization manufacturing relies heavily on an egg-based process.  Eggs have lots of protein.  Therefore, I would assume Tony would approve.


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## Dleg (Jan 24, 2019)

knight1fox3 said:


> "Recent studies show....."
> 
> Please advise when more definite and accurate information is available such that the phrase above can be revised to, "Recent studies *CONFIRM*..."  And I'll also expect the corresponding technical report with supporting data to review accordingly. Thank you in advance. :thumbs:


It's all right there in the link, doctor. Including links to each of the several studies they used that back up those numbers. So please go ahead and review and get back to us with what the researchers did wrong. Better yet, talk to your expert friends - it looks like most of the studies were performed in your neck of the woods.


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 24, 2019)

Dleg said:


> It's all right there in the link, doctor. Including links to each of the several studies they used that back up those numbers. So please go ahead and review and get back to us with what the researchers did wrong. Better yet, talk to your expert friends - it looks like most of the studies were performed in your neck of the woods.


I'll be sure to do that. But as mentioned previously, you have your data and I have mine. This is akin to arguing politics in hopes one of the participants is going to change the other's mind. That's not going to happen on this end for the record. Though I wonder how/if the flu strains differ some between regions (i.e. yours for instance) of the world.


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## Dleg (Jan 24, 2019)

knight1fox3 said:


> I'll be sure to do that. But as mentioned previously, you have your data and I have mine. This is akin to arguing politics in hopes one of the participants is going to change the other's mind. That's not going to happen on this end for the record. Though I wonder how/if the flu strains differ some between regions (i.e. yours for instance) of the world.


Well see that's the beauty of science. You can prove things. You can't prove things in politics.  Now, the science of epidemiology might seem foreign to an engineer, but it is indeed a science, but one that comes with confidence intervals, because biology is a lot less predictable than gravity and electrons.

Again, if you read up on the process from the actual people who develop the vaccines (hint, hint, read the CDC web page I originally linked to) you will see that - as I stated in my first response - the flu vaccine can only provide protection against three or four strains of flu at a time. The CDC, working with other health organizations world-wide, uses surveillance data to make their best professional guess as to which three or four strains will be the most prevalent the next year. So yes it is indeed a factor of where you live and which strains are circulating, and no they don't always match up. And for certain types of flu viruses, the vaccine is less effective because mutations occur so rapidly in nature that the actual strain that circulates may not be affected by the vaccine. All of this equals "sometimes the flu vaccine will not prevent a person from getting the flu" but none of it equals "the flu vaccine is not effective".


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## wilheldp_PE (Jan 24, 2019)

Dleg said:


> the flu vaccine can only provide protection against three or four strains of flu at a time.


That always confused me.  Why is it only possible to protect against a few strains?  Why couldn't you get multiple doses, with each protecting against a different set of 3 or 4 strains?  

Another thing that concerns me is that there seems to be an ever-expanding list of influenza strains.  Are we causing influenza to mutate by developing vaccines?  Is it possible for influenza to mutate to be resistant to all forms of vaccine (kinda like antibiotic-resistant bacteria)?

For the record, I'm not taking a side in this debate.  These are just questions I've always had about the flu vaccine.


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 24, 2019)

Indeed. As a point of clarity, to quote D's previous post, "and no they don't always match up.", should be changed "and rarely if ever do they match up." :thumbs:


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## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Jan 24, 2019)

@Dleg your comment about continually developing antibodies was something I hadn’t thought about before. However, also according to the CDC, immunity to the string you are vaccinated for wanes over time (sounds like after about 6 months in most cases), which is why it’s necessary to continue to receive the vaccination every year. So, if a specific string comes around years after being vaccinated for it, it would logically follow that the body might not be able to fight that specific string any longer. Am I missing something?


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## Dleg (Jan 25, 2019)

I think it's not a matter of losing immunity over time, but to the virus mutating over time. If I understand it correctly. But those mutations are natural, not caused by the vaccine. I believe some types of flu mutate less and your vaccinations stay "good" for those types, but that i stretching the limits of my engineer's understanding and I may be wrong on that aspect. The CDC page I linked to had an explanation of all of this.

But since we're talking anecdotally, I have not had a severe cold or flu since I began getting the yearly vaccinations as a requirement for my job. Seriously - even when literally everyone else in the office has been sick, including this year both in Alaska where I was before and overseas where I moved to. I don't know if it's just me or the vaccine, but I feel like I got sick more often before I began getting these every year.


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## P-E (Jan 25, 2019)

I’ve had a couple bad colds since getting vaccinated every year since 2009.   Haven’t got the flu though.


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## Master slacker (Jan 25, 2019)

In the amber corner, weighing in at 20,213 posts, wearing blue shorts, the Jedi of Juke, the Crew of Brew, YOLO with Solo, it's KNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHTFOOOOOX!!!

And in the green corner, weighing in at 15,575 posts, wearing brown and green shorts, the Master of Monsoon, the Saipan Tsunami, the one and only Tropic Thunder, it's D(eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)LEEEEEEEEEEEEG!!!


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## JayKay PE (Jan 25, 2019)




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## knight1fox3 (Jan 25, 2019)

LOL! That's awesome.


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## csb (Jan 25, 2019)

And the crowd goes wild!


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## knight1fox3 (Jan 25, 2019)

csb said:


> And the crowd goes wild!


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## ChebyshevII PE PMP (Jan 25, 2019)

knight1fox3 said:


>


Better get that flu shot quickly, then...


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## JayKay PE (Jan 25, 2019)




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