# Protection Problems



## ellen3720 (Oct 19, 2018)

Can anyone recommend some good last minute protection practice problems?

I've worked through the related problems in Power Systems Analysis (Glover), Power System Relaying (Horowitz), as well as the EngPro and Graffeo guides and the NCEES exam. 

I found the EngPro exam and NCEES exam fault/protection problems challenging but I've done them a couple times now so it's really not beneficial anymore.

I've read through Art/Sci of Protective Relaying and didn't gain much from it. Not many problems in there either. I've tried with Blackburn, too, but I got lost with that one.


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## BirdGrave (Oct 19, 2018)

You've gone through more resources than I have on the subject and I passed the exam.  I would caution against diversifying your material so much that you don't retain anything.

Honestly Graffeo probably strikes the best balance you're going to find between containing enough information to be helpful while not overburdening you so much that you miss the forest for the trees.  It's what I ended up referencing first every time.


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## Drewism (Oct 19, 2018)

I would try to lighten up a bit on the resources. Just know the basic concepts. Protection can have a broad range:


Relay pick up calculations.

Reading fuse, circuit breaker curves.

Types of relays and configurations.

Fuse and circuit breaker properties.

Theory problems based on NEC.

I read through EngProGuides, Graffeo and another book called Fundamentals of Power System Protection by Y.G. Paithankar and S.R. Bhide. It's a great book, better than Blackburn's in my opinion. Easy to follow, worked out examples and calculations. It's also broken out into coherent sections. I regret buying the Blackburn book. I read it for a day, got lost and put it down.


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## BirdGrave (Oct 20, 2018)

Yea I found Blackburn to be so dense as to not be worth the money, and the one time I tried to use it during the exam I knew immediately I was just going to be chasing my tail so I put it down.  The best resources for the PE exam aren't the ones that try to throw everything in one place, because then you end up looking forever for some small detail you are ultimately unlikely to find after much scouring and then don't have time to finish all your problems. 

Rather the best resources are the ones that provide intergral conceptual statements about the subject matter that you can then extrapolate outwards to fit the particulars of the problem you're working on.


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## rmsg (Oct 20, 2018)

BirdGrave said:


> Yea I found Blackburn to be so dense as to not be worth the money, and the one time I tried to use it during the exam I knew immediately I was just going to be chasing my tail so I put it down.  The best resources for the PE exam aren't the ones that try to throw everything in one place, because then you end up looking forever for some small detail you are ultimately unlikely to find after much scouring and then don't have time to finish all your problems.
> 
> Rather the best resources are the ones that provide intergral conceptual statements about the subject matter that you can then extrapolate outwards to fit the particulars of the problem you're working on.


I had compiled one binder of GE Protective Relays and Blackburn (all printed from PDF). I have not once looked at it nor do I intend to see before the exam. In your opinion, do you think it would be ok if I skipped this binder and did not take it with me to exam. I am now trying to see how I can cut down on the ref. material for the exam.


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## BirdGrave (Oct 20, 2018)

rmsg said:


> I had compiled one binder of GE Protective Relays and Blackburn (all printed from PDF). I have not once looked at it nor do I intend to see before the exam. In your opinion, do you think it would be ok if I skipped this binder and did not take it with me to exam. I am now trying to see how I can cut down on the ref. material for the exam.


Everyone is different, but I can tell you I didn't use either resource once and I passed.  The materials I did rely upon to a large degree were my School of PE notes, EngProGuide material, and especially Graffeo.


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## Drewism (Oct 20, 2018)

BirdGrave said:


> Everyone is different, but I can tell you I didn't us either resource once and I passed.  The materials I did rely upon to a large degree were my School of PE notes, EngProGuide material, and especially Graffeo.


Sounds great. I have the School of PE notes, EngProGuides and Graffeo.  I was definitely intending using these 3 for my primaries. Then if I'm getting too badly shot up I'll get backup from the others.

I know EngProGuides and Graffeo and where to find stuff since I read through them. I gotta finish tabbing the School of PE notes. Sounds like a good plan.


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## DLD PE (Oct 20, 2018)

Second this and above.  I've tabbed the Graffeo and grouped related practice problems on the subject I've worked out and I know exactly where to go when I need it.  First time test taker here so we'll see how it goes.  I would also recommend making sure you're comfortable  with distance relays (MHO diagrams).  I did not get much out of the Blackburn book but I'm bringing it anyway just in case.


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## ellen3720 (Oct 20, 2018)

I think I'm going to leave both Art &amp; Science of Protective Relaying (GE) and Blackburn at home. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one finding them to be dead weight.


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## BirdGrave (Oct 20, 2018)

MEtoEE said:


> Second this and above.  I've tabbed the Graffeo and grouped related practice problems on the subject I've worked out and I know exactly where to go when I need it.  First time test taker here so we'll see how it goes.  I would also recommend making sure you're comfortable  with distance relays (MHO diagrams).  I did not get much out of the Blackburn book but I'm bringing it anyway just in case.


Graffeo also has the benefit of a very well put together index in the back of the book, which can't be overvalued when in the middle of a test.


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## BirdGrave (Oct 20, 2018)

ellen3720 said:


> I think I'm going to leave both Art &amp; Science of Protective Relaying (GE) and Blackburn at home.
> 
> I'm glad I'm not the only one finding them to be dead weight.


It's your call if you want to bring them along.  I'm not saying you won't get anything worthwhile out of them, and it's very possible I missed some questions because I didn't tab Blackburn properly.  I'm just saying with the amount of looking I'd have to do in the Blackburn book in order to find the answer to a question I would have eaten up my time for 5 other questions.


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## Surf and Snow (Oct 20, 2018)

I will say, just as the syllabus says, protection was the heaviest topic on the exam I took in April. I passed, thankfully, but if I had to do it again I wish I would’ve studied protection more, and been more familiar with those references. I know I missed at least 2-3 questions on the exam frantically searching my protection resources to what would have been a gimme point for a conceptual question or any easy 1 step calculation if I knew the right equation.


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## rmsg (Oct 20, 2018)

Surf and Snow said:


> I will say, just as the syllabus says, protection was the heaviest topic on the exam I took in April. I passed, thankfully, but if I had to do it again I wish I would’ve studied protection more, and been more familiar with those references. I know I missed at least 2-3 questions on the exam frantically searching my protection resources to what would have been a gimme point for a conceptual question or any easy 1 step calculation if I knew the right equation.


I have one question from guys who gave exam in April and passed. : Were your struggling in time management. Were the questions very lengthy and time consuming to solve and also what percentage were numerical based questions and what percentage were theoretical type (conceptual). Just a rough ball park estimate.


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## Szar (Oct 22, 2018)

Morning Session I did not struggle.  Afternoon Session I would have liked another 30 minutes.  

Questions were typical of the NCEES exam. Generally. 

But there were a few questions that if you told me I could call anybody during the test to ask them for the answer, I wouldn't even know who to call to get an answer.  Hell, if NCEES gave me the Author of the question I'm not sure I could have phrased a coherent question about their question!  _(Edit... Other then "WTF is this garbage!")_

As for the Theory vs Numerical... cant answer that.  Part because I don't remember, part because I'm not sure we can?


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## Drewism (Oct 22, 2018)

Szar said:


> Morning Session I did not struggle.  Afternoon Session I would have liked another 30 minutes.
> 
> Questions were typical of the NCEES exam. Generally.
> 
> ...


I can just picture it like Who Wants To Be a Millionaire's "phone a friend".

*Me: *Is it A) Class RK5 Type Fuses, B) Thermal Magnetic Circuit Breaker, C) Ground Fault Relay or D) Nontime Delay Fuse... 20 seconds!

*Author:* Um, you know I really don't know. Could you repeat the choices again?

*Me:* (even louder) A) Class RK5 Type Fuses, B) Thermal Magnetic Circuit Breaker, C) Ground Fault Relay or D) Nontime Delay Fuse... 10 seconds!

*(beeping from countdown timer)*

*Author: *You know, I'm thinking it's B but I'm not sure...

*Me:* How sure are you?!

*Author: *About 20 per... (phone cuts off).

*(Audience gasping while I hold my head)*


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## rmsg (Oct 22, 2018)

Szar said:


> Morning Session I did not struggle.  Afternoon Session I would have liked another 30 minutes.
> 
> Questions were typical of the NCEES exam. Generally.
> 
> ...


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## rmsg (Oct 22, 2018)

Drewism said:


> I can just picture it like Who Wants To Be a Millionaire's "phone a friend".
> 
> *Me: *Is it A) Class RK5 Type Fuses, B) Thermal Magnetic Circuit Breaker, C) Ground Fault Relay or D) Nontime Delay Fuse... 20 seconds!
> 
> ...


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