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Just got an NCEES email saying October PE exams are canceled.


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As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil & paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.

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hi @vhab49_PE

I just sent an email to NCEES and I suggest everyone else do the same:   "Hi, I recently learned that the October PE test for Electrical Power was cancelled and that it will be immediately

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”? The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?

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34 minutes ago, BirdGrave said:

As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil & paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.

Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.

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37 minutes ago, Dothracki said:

Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.

And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.

Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare. 

Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.    

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3 hours ago, BirdGrave said:

And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.

Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare. 

Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.    

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

  • The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  • There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

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37 minutes ago, DilutedAr18 said:

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

  • The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  • There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

Yes, I have.  No one knows if that is the final version that is going to pop up on your monitor in a testing center 5ish months from now.  Like all the other reference documents, it's going to be consistently evolving and amended.  And questions on the exams are thrown out if the review committee determines there was insufficient information to reasonably come to a correct answer.  

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NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference. 

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6 minutes ago, Chattaneer PE said:

NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference. 

A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388

The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.

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19 minutes ago, Tim @ NCEES said:

A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388

The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.

Awesome.

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@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

image.png.049374c9ebb7e77574f364150ecc6153.png

Answer given in the book:

image.png.c8fa4cbbb896b4080d6fc1e4933d957f.png

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

image.thumb.png.abed05409ab5dc0ec1cc6ab178223c08.png

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

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9 hours ago, DilutedAr18 said:

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

  • The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  • There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

Not all questions they ask on the exam should be able to be answered using the reference book or code books. Some of it will need to just come from knowledge gained through experience.

But I do agree with you, there should be at least one section dedicated to protection information. Even if it's just general info on protection devices. 

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5 hours ago, Chattaneer PE said:

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

image.png.049374c9ebb7e77574f364150ecc6153.png

Answer given in the book:

image.png.c8fa4cbbb896b4080d6fc1e4933d957f.png

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

image.thumb.png.abed05409ab5dc0ec1cc6ab178223c08.png

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

I agree that Option A is wrong. As I have always known it, the zero-sequence components all have the same magnitude and same angle. The zero-sequence components do not have any displacements between each other.

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12 hours ago, Chattaneer PE said:

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

image.png.049374c9ebb7e77574f364150ecc6153.png

Answer given in the book:

image.png.c8fa4cbbb896b4080d6fc1e4933d957f.png

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

image.thumb.png.abed05409ab5dc0ec1cc6ab178223c08.png

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

Good catch.

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20 hours ago, Rajan said:

WOW! CBT is expensive $375 + tax.

yeah pencil and paper was only $350... though we're supposed to get a $25 refund if we sign up before January...not sure that's a great consolation prize for getting jerked around for a year, but whatever!

On 8/13/2020 at 7:08 AM, Chattaneer PE said:

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

image.png.049374c9ebb7e77574f364150ecc6153.png

Answer given in the book:

image.png.c8fa4cbbb896b4080d6fc1e4933d957f.png

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

image.thumb.png.abed05409ab5dc0ec1cc6ab178223c08.png

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

A is definitely incorrect. zero sequence currents and voltages are equal in magnitude and angles. If C is incorrect, then A is incorrect. it shouldn't matter if they are currents or voltages.

Frustrating!!!🙄😡

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I passed along the comments and heard the following back from our exam development engineer and publications manager:

This item was updated from the 2017 PE Power practice exam into an alternative item type (AIT).  Option A has now been revised to eliminate any confusion. You can see the revised version in the free preview on ncees.org.

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On 8/11/2020 at 4:00 PM, akyip said:

Looks like all that effort into my Bible binder just went down the drain!!!

Anyone else got this email? Thoughts? Opinions?

As the topic title mentioned, I just received an email from NCEES stating that:

"NCEES has accelerated the PE Electrical and Computer Power exam transition to computer-based testing (CBT). All examinees who are currently registered to take this exam in October will be canceled and automatically provided a full refund of their exam registration fee so they can immediately register for the computer-based exam."

 

Next time please mark this as PE Electrical. Here i am studying for the Civil Transpo exam and had a big ole heart attack and dirty pants because i read this header 😭

Edit: Apparently I'm blind and cant read that this was under the power forum. Carry on

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18 hours ago, TwistedLeague said:

Next time please mark this as PE Electrical. Here i am studying for the Civil Transpo exam and had a big ole heart attack and dirty pants because i read this header 😭

Edit: Apparently I'm blind and cant read that this was under the power forum. Carry on

Exactly. Imagine how we feel? I have a solid 8 months studying for this stupid test that I'll never get to use these 30+ books on. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 11:11 AM, Tim @ NCEES said:

I passed along the comments and heard the following back from our exam development engineer and publications manager:

This item was updated from the 2017 PE Power practice exam into an alternative item type (AIT).  Option A has now been revised to eliminate any confusion. You can see the revised version in the free preview on ncees.org.

Hi @Tim @ NCEES, I've found a few mistakes in the new NCEES® Power PE Reference Manual for the CBT exam. One of them is a formula mistake with the variable in the wrong place that will result in a wrong answer for anyone that uses it.

Who can I can notify at NCEES to help bring this to the right persons attention?

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8 hours ago, Zach Stone, P.E. said:

Hi @Tim @ NCEES, I've found a few mistakes in the new NCEES® Power PE Reference Manual for the CBT exam. One of them is a formula mistake with the variable in the wrong place that will result in a wrong answer for anyone that uses it.

Who can I can notify at NCEES to help bring this to the right persons attention?

The best way to submit a comment is to use your MyNCEES account. Click the ? by your name in the upper right hand corner and then choose the "ask" option to submit a help ticket detailing your concerns. 

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4 hours ago, Tim @ NCEES said:

The best way to submit a comment is to use your MyNCEES account. Click the ? by your name in the upper right hand corner and then choose the "ask" option to submit a help ticket detailing your concerns. 

Thanks Tim, will do.

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Hi, 

I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES. 

The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)

but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get: 

Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C

then 

C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)

So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.

Is my analysis above correct? 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mohammed Ahmed said:

Hi, 

I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES. 

The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)

but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get: 

Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C

then 

C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)

So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.

Is my analysis above correct? 

Not totally sure on your question @Mohammed Ahmed but on page 63 they have a formula with the 2 in it under "the relationship between capacitive and reactive power".

No idea why they change notation and have Preactive in one spot and q in another spot and the MVAR in another spot? 

It's like they gave an intern a stack of books and said "copy paste formulas and diagrams for these topics into a file" 🙄

I attempted to solve some problems with the handbook today, and it's just missing so many little things, or it uses really complex formulas for easy stuff - like the above situation.

I did send a feedback letter to NCEES and got a very concise response to my concerns, and that they are aware of the rumors that protection will be hard because it is not in the reference book. 

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2 hours ago, Mohammed Ahmed said:

Hi, 

I have noticed one comment in the reference book page# 65, I would like to share it with you before we escalate it to NCEES. 

The equation to find the capacitance is C=Q/pi*f*(Square V)

but if you start analysing the equation from reactive power you will get: 

Q= (Square V)/Xc  where Xc=1/2*pi*f*C

then 

C=Q/2*pi*f*(Square V)

So, as shown number 2 is missing in the denominator of the equation which mentioned in the handbook.

Is my analysis above correct? 

Yes your math is correct, but you need to pay closer attention to what is specified in the reference book. Notice on page 65 it says "V_line is the maximum value of the sinusoid." For the other formula you were using V is assumed to be RMS. 

Remember

image.png.553de5762e95a13273ff19fedb58006f.png

And

image.png.fd1485535e4b031e6606894636a910a1.png

Substituting

image.png.474635f801d2dcce97acd407377b4ecf.png

That's my best guess as to how they arrived at their formula.

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