The switch to CBT PE has really begun

[CU07]

That sounds like a bad idea to me. Either the test has to be written as open book or centered around one reference manual. Why would they re-write the paper Civil test for one exam date around the reference manual OR write a reference manual around the paper test? 

You misunderstand me.  It's going to be available in advance as an additional reference, not forcing people to take the paper test with only the reference manual.  Like @snickerd3 suggests for ChemEs since theirs is available.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

THe swtich to CBT is actually more expensive to implement, the only one making more profit is the pearson testing company.  The only gain to NCEES was a theoretically more secure test by switching to CBT.  

I was talking more about getting more people to pursue licensure, than I was talking about making more money off of each examinee.

 

[smahurin]

To me it just seems that it's making it more of a standardized test vs. that of an exam where one must gain experience in their respective field. But perhaps they aim to capture that in the ref. manuals (not going to be easy).

This is already essentially how the Civil exam is structured (other PE exams may be different).  Not to undersell the difficulty or make people bad... but I felt like I got an at least an 85% on the AM portion of the civil simply by bringing the CERM into the exam.  Its structured in a way that makes experience irrelevant, and simply encourages someone to mindlessly thumb through a reference manual for the correct section.  I guess I see CBT from the civil side as no different, it's just that you'd have a searchable PDF reference manual instead of a hard copy manual.  I'm sure other disciplines offer different experiences.

 

[knight1fox3]

This is already essentially how the Civil exam is structured (other PE exams may be different).  Not to undersell the difficulty or make people bad... but I felt like I got an at least an 85% on the AM portion of the civil simply by bringing the CERM into the exam.  Its structured in a way that makes experience irrelevant, and simply encourages someone to mindlessly thumb through a reference manual for the correct section.  I guess I see CBT from the civil side as no different, it's just that you'd have a searchable PDF reference manual instead of a hard copy manual.  I'm sure other disciplines offer different experiences.

I see your point, but let me ask you this. Would you / do you use the CERM for work? Because on the electrical side (as an example), I use NFPA 70 for work. And my experience with specifying designs that were NFPA 70 compliant helped me to be better prepared for the PE exam. Could someone who didn't have the same industry experience study NFPA 70 to prepare for the exam. Yes, but having that code and working with it in industry is a big help.

 

[P-E]

I'm wondering how the CBT format will affect the spam thread.  

 

[Ken PE 3.1]

4 hours ago, smahurin said: This is already essentially how the Civil exam is structured (other PE exams may be different).  Not to undersell the difficulty or make people bad... but I felt like I got an at least an 85% on the AM portion of the civil simply by bringing the CERM into the exam.  Its structured in a way that makes experience irrelevant, and simply encourages someone to mindlessly thumb through a reference manual for the correct section.  I guess I see CBT from the civil side as no different, it's just that you'd have a searchable PDF reference manual instead of a hard copy manual.  I'm sure other disciplines offer different experiences.

I see your point, but let me ask you this. Would you / do you use the CERM for work? Because on the electrical side (as an example), I use NFPA 70 for work. And my experience with specifying designs that were NFPA 70 compliant helped me to be better prepared for the PE exam. Could someone who didn't have the same industry experience study NFPA 70 to prepare for the exam. Yes, but having that code and working with it in industry is a big help.

Agreed. There are many sections in the power section that are not covered very well in a single book. If it is the same test and they use a searchable pdf, it would need to be over 2000 pages of crap.

 

[matt267 PE]

Agreed. There are many sections in the power section that are not covered very well in a single book. If it is the same test and they use a searchable pdf, it would need to be over 2000 pages of crap.

Exactly why I think the test will end up being slightly easier. Plus it'll be shorter. 

 

[Ken PE 3.1]

6 minutes ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: Agreed. There are many sections in the power section that are not covered very well in a single book. If it is the same test and they use a searchable pdf, it would need to be over 2000 pages of crap.

Exactly why I think the test will end up being slightly easier. Plus it'll be shorter. 

Anything to coddle the next generation?

 

[matt267 PE]

Anything to coddle the next generation?

I wonder what the old timers think about our multiple choice exam when they were graded on their work on the exam. Given a blank sheet of paper, they had to answer like 4 questions in the am and 4 in the pm. 

 

[Ken PE 3.1]

2 minutes ago, Ken PE 3.0 said: Anything to coddle the next generation?

[emoji3]I wonder what the old timers think about our multiple choice exam when they were graded on their work on the exam. Given a blank sheet of paper, they had to answer like 4 questions in the am and 4 in the pm. 

Sounds like my electronics final in college.

 

[smahurin]

I see your point, but let me ask you this. Would you / do you use the CERM for work? Because on the electrical side (as an example), I use NFPA 70 for work. And my experience with specifying designs that were NFPA 70 compliant helped me to be better prepared for the PE exam. Could someone who didn't have the same industry experience study NFPA 70 to prepare for the exam. Yes, but having that code and working with it in industry is a big help.

Nope, I haven't used the CERM for work in the 2+ years since I took the exam.  I used it for the PE, I used it for I think 1 problem on the SE, but otherwise it has set on the shelf collecting dust.  As a structural engineer I use my codes for day to day work.  The CERM is extremely useful precisely because I don't do hydraulics, hydrology, transportation, etc and it combines all the information needed for the exam that I won't use in real life.  Again, it was extremely useful, so I'm not knocking the manual, it's just that it's a $300 manual whose only utility is for the PE exam. So if NCEES is going to provide a necessary but otherwise useless reference manual free of charge to test takers, I'd say that sounds like a great idea personally.

 

[smahurin]

But this sort of goes back to my very subjective opinion that the way the civil exams are structured is stupid.  I've said it before and probably sound like a broken record, but the intent of the civil PE exams is to test material in which they (the test makers) know that you know nothing about.  There are really only 2 plausible outcomes for such an exam.  Option 1, the exam appropriately tests your knowledge... and since it's understood the test taker knows nothing about almost 50% of the exam actually testing your knowledge would be unreasonably hard.  Or option 2 is that the test difficulty can be skewed such that a test taker can take and "pass" an exam in which half of the exam covers material they know nothing about.  

NCEES seems to have decided to pursue option #2, as it seems the more reasonable of the two stupid options.  Others may have differing opinions on the Civil exams, and that's fine, that's just mine.  And I'm sure other discipline PE exams (ME/EE/etc.) are different. But I just don't see a searchable PDF as really changing anything significantly on the civil (except saving the test taker money).

 

[John QPE]

Coooool.....free reference materials.

Why have I never downloaded the FS Reference Guide before?

 

[iwire]

kinda glad I took mine when it's still pencil and paper for EIT and PE...Our pencils will worth a lot now  

Suck to go between tab for reference! 

They cheapen the PE exam..it suppose to be the holy grail!