The famous cut score

[Dexman PE PMP]

 

[thebettersmith]

What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?

@Sapper. My quote was "hurts your chances of passing" in regards to throwing out a problem you got correct.

If NCEES throws our a problem (that nobody is eligible for credit) that you had answered correctly, your correct # of answered problems goes down as does your % of correct answers (55/79 = 69.6% is less than 56/80 = 70.0%) relative to the situation where NCEES throws out a problem you had answered incorrectly, your correct # of answered problems remains the same but ... your % of correct answers actually increases (56/79 = 70.9% is greater than 56/80 = 70.0%.) You are actually penalized in regards to % of correct answers if a problem you marked correct is thrown out from the final tally.

To all those that claim this doesn't seem fair or right, this is exactly what happens when grades are determine via statistics and scored w/o subjectivity. Blame the math/method chosen.

Thanks, Harry.

 

[ptatohed]

I think my point has gotten lost b/c I did not do a good job explaining.

Let say 5 questions (out of 80) are thrown out before scoring the exam and an arbitrary (I am making this up) score of 53 correct (after problems removed) is chosen as the passing # for this exam.

If you had 54 questions correct (before the 5 problems were removed) but 2 of the 54 originally correct were thrown out, your correct score # is 52 = fail.

If you had 54 questions correct (before the 5 problems were removed) and 0 of the 54 originally correct were thrown out, your correct score # is 54 = pass.

That's what I meant by "if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing."

Bottom line as previously said, get as many correct as possible!

If you throw problems out, the problems that are left in must have their point value 'increased' if you are going to assume that 80 was the basline for scoring each question - if 70% is the ratio that must be met than your chances of passing become slimmer due to the impact of scoring each individual question at the 'increased' point value.. so in a way, the NCEES punishes the test takers by screwing up the exam in such a way that they have to come back and gleefully fix THEIR errors but woefully punish the TEST TAKERS for their mistakes.. not fair at all in my summation.

Relax. There is no significant detriment to an examinee if NCEES removes a bum question.

What part of correct answers are not penalized are you missing here?

@Sapper. My quote was "hurts your chances of passing" in regards to throwing out a problem you got correct.

If NCEES throws our a problem (that nobody is eligible for credit) that you had answered correctly, your correct # of answered problems goes down as does your % of correct answers (55/79 = 69.6% is less than 56/80 = 70.0%) relative to the situation where NCEES throws out a problem you had answered incorrectly, your correct # of answered problems remains the same but ... your % of correct answers actually increases (56/79 = 70.9% is greater than 56/80 = 70.0%.) You are actually penalized in regards to % of correct answers if a problem you marked correct is thrown out from the final tally.

To all those that claim this doesn't seem fair or right, this is exactly what happens when grades are determine via statistics and scored w/o subjectivity. Blame the math/method chosen.

I see what you are saying WR, but this assumes the "problem you got correct" is, well, a problem you got correct. If the problem was, say, a problem that had no correct answer after post exam evaluation, then it's not possible that anyone got it correct.

 

[EB NCEES REP]

Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?

Yes, it is stated in the video.

Not sure where they get their information, but this university claims that if NCEES determines a question is flawed that they give credit to multiple or all answers to that question, which should not work against the test takers. http://ef.engr.utk.edu/ef402-2010-08/feexam/grading.php

I swear I remember reading this elsewhere years ago but I can't find it on NCEES' website any more. It seems like NCEES is trying to become even more opaque about the scoring process.

Why do you think this?

 

[Dark Knight]

This would be a non issue if the engineering Gods, NCEES, were crystal clear about the methodology of test scoring. It is ridiculous that we are still guessing what do they do inside their building regarding to the test and cut score determinations.

Someone should tell them we are a decade and a half into the 21st century.

 

[csb]

Isn't the thing graded on a bell curve anyway? I think they shift the curve so a certain percent fail.

Boussinesq Curve, I think.

Has NCEES ever said that they "throw out" questions? Or is this one of those urban myths like the infamous "70" is a percentage and not just scale score?

Yes, it is stated in the video.

Not sure where they get their information, but this university claims that if NCEES determines a question is flawed that they give credit to multiple or all answers to that question, which should not work against the test takers. http://ef.engr.utk.edu/ef402-2010-08/feexam/grading.php

I swear I remember reading this elsewhere years ago but I can't find it on NCEES' website any more. It seems like NCEES is trying to become even more opaque about the scoring process.

Why do you think this?

When the NCEES rep calls you out, it's time to run.

 

[Porter_]

:laugh:

 

[STEEL MAN]

Dr. Harry,

I'm convinced.

 

[ptatohed]

Dr. Harry,

Interesting, but to me it makes sense, for sure NCEES don't want the flawed questions be credited towards the examinees to maintain consistency and tough to pass for the examinees.

I read this 5 times slowly and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. I give up.

 

[STEEL MAN]

^Im convinced on Dr. Harry's point.

 

[NJmike PE]

Dr. Harry,

Interesting, but to me it makes sense, for sure NCEES don't want the flawed questions be credited towards the examinees to maintain consistency and tough to pass for the examinees.

 

[Dark Knight]

 

[EB NCEES REP]

I am thinking of a number between 51 and 57

 

[NJmike PE]

5?

 

[Dark Knight]

It is a trick question NJ. The answer is 15.

 

[NJmike PE]

Wait. I want to change my guess. 85?

 

[NJmike PE]

You're just trying to throw me off DK so you can win

 

[Dark Knight]

You're just trying to throw me off DK so you can win

No. But you have future. I like the way you think.

 

[matt267 PE]

This thread is still open?

 

[Dark Knight]

What do you think?