Flint Water -- PE License

[mudpuppy]

I found this interesting.  One of the university researchers who blew the lid off the Flint water coverup is trying to get the PE license revoked of another university researcher  here in Michigan.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2018/03/one_flint_water_researcher_fil.html

 

[Dleg]

Interesting. I;ve always heard Academia can be very cut-throat, but reading this, I can't tell if it's more about one guy "stealing" another one's ideas, or actual incompetence.  Either way, it's not helpful to the overall picture of what happened / is happening in Flint.  Finding out what actually happened and what the real health threats are shouldn't be this controversial. 

 

[Road Guy]

how accurate is this synopsis of the Flint Water problems?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

Seems it was an epic failure across all parts of government, starting with the collapse of the local government. Its just generally not a good idea when you go belly up and depend on the state to provide basic needs that should be fulfilled at the local level. case in point here they (the state) fucked it up pretty hard..

 

[mudpuppy]

I didn't read the whole thing, but in general the wikipedia account sounds pretty accurate.  There's plenty of finger-pointing going around, but like you said there was a failure of the government at all levels, including the local, state and fed.  By the time the emergency manager was in place, though, the local government had no choice in the water issues.

The governor is a former accountant and businessman and is proud of running the state like a business "by spreadsheet," not realizing that failure in business means at worst going bankrupt, but in government it means people's lives.

I think a lot of the criminal cases are ongoing, but the attorney has been angling for Governor for years, and is using this as an opportunity.  Thing is he seems to be placing most of the blame on the emergency manager, when I'm sure the emergency manager was taking orders directly from the governor.  But the attorney general and governor as buddies, so. . .  the attorney general never should have been put in charge of this investigation.  There should have been a special prosecutor involved.

 

[Road Guy]

Who made the decision to switch the water supply point and who was supposed to treat the water before it got to Flint? Normally there is an agency that provides water "transmission" and then the locals provide "distribution" services?

I cant tell if those were things decided before Flint went bankrupt or when the emergency manager was appointed- It looks like the guy that was appointed the emergency manager had been the City Administrator / Manager at Flint so he should have had some clue about city government operations?? But it also looks like he worked for United Way and that's basically a criminal Ponzi scheme organization

 

[mudpuppy]

Originally, the emergency manager and the city council together decided to switcher water suppliers.  The reasoning is very complicated, but it involved not wanting to pay the City of Detroit to provide water from Lake Huron.  Flint was going to pay a different supplier to build a new pipeline to Lake Huron to get their own water.  Until the new pipeline could be built, the city (emergency manager) decided to take water directly out of the Flint River.  Flint had a water treatment facility they hadn't used in decades and decided to fire it up to treat the Flint River water, but they didn't really know what they were doing.  The details are hazy, but it appears the city council did not want to switch to the Flint River source, but the emergency manager overruled them.

 

[knight1fox3]

Flint had a water treatment facility they hadn't used in decades and decided to fire it up to treat the Flint River water, but they didn't really know what they were doing. 

@matt267 PE, @Dleg, isn't it just a matter of using "HAND-OFF-AUTO"? :dunno:

@MA_PE, probably also runs on 220 so shouldn't be a big deal.

In all seriousness though, what a fiasco. Which then directly affected the corresponding community in a very negative way. Not good.

 

[matt267 PE]

@matt267 PE, @Dleg, isn't it just a matter of using "HAND-OFF-AUTO"? :dunno:

@MA_PE, probably also runs on 220 so shouldn't be a big deal.

In all seriousness though, what a fiasco. Which then directly affected the corresponding community in a very negative way. Not good.

I would say "no". If the treatment plant had been down for years, I can't imagine all the equipment working without some repair. They likely used sand filters that would need repair or replacement of the sand. They would also need to test the influent water to know what set points to use. I'm also betting that epa's drinking water standards have been updated over the decades. That means treatment upgrades. The treatment facility would also need to be run by licensed operators. They should have had some idea.

 

[Dleg]

That's the type of assumption that caused this disaster, that a treatment plant is a treatment plant is a treatment plant.  A lot of professionals,  even,  prior to Flint, would have thought along the same lines - just fire it up, adjust the coagulant dose,  make sure the microbiological samples come back clean, and you're good to go. There's also a long history among environmental agency drinking water staff of dragging out lead and copper violations. Oh, it's probably just old fixtures,  change them out and let's wait 6 months and then sample again.  Of course,  the local drinking water professionals - both utility and regulator - should have known of the risks posed by the lead service lines still in service.  But regulators in the state office might not have,  and frankly were probably less experienced overall with actual,  real-world water systems.  I can tell you one thing,  a failure to consider water chemistry is a lot less likely now, and everyone in the industry now is a hell of a lot more aware of this issue now.