April 2019 SE Results Thread

[Maya_206]

Cal 91 I would be curious to know how much effort was spent studying for the exam. There is always a different approach to solve a problem. 

No tabs has a steep cost to the time spent. Not sure if it is reasonable. Finding the right balance is what I was suggesting. Right now, there is too much expectation of this triggered primarily by the am questions. Pm questions, not so much. 

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Believe it or not, I actually did no do any tabbing. I never have. My thoughts were I should study each book I bring into the test, to the point that I know it front and back and don't need tabs. Time spent tabbing for me is better spent doing practice problems. 

This has typically been my approach as well. There's an interesting feeling of know a book well enough to just go to the correct place. I did end up tabbing some basic items though, more to save time page turning!

 

[Nathan55]

Cal 91 I would be curious to know how much effort was spent studying for the exam. There is always a different approach to solve a problem. 

No tabs has a steep cost to the time spent. Not sure if it is reasonable. Finding the right balance is what I was suggesting. Right now, there is too much expectation of this triggered primarily by the am questions. Pm questions, not so much. 

I use tabs to an extent, especially on AASHTO. What I find even more useful than tabbing is actually annotating my codes themselves. Especially ACI, which has a sacrilegious level of circular references. Also, why don't they include more formulas?

Also, you have a lot of useful ideas on how to improve the test. I agree about making the test more about knowledge and less about speed. The test requires a preternatural ability to solve problems quickly. In the real world, knowledge will generally win because you have more time to design things. Also, almost nothing we do is a one-off design without a QA/QC procedure. I think that is a large part of consulting. It would be nice to see more problems about checking people's work...as in "determine if this calculation is adequate" sorts of exercises. Also, 100% accurate on the having "skipped an LRFS" and passed issue. Per the NCEES test spec, they can only test you on so many things. So you could feasibly gamble and say "I will not learn anything about system XYZ" and have a favorable mix of problems and do fine. 

And don't get me started on the practice exams. Anyone who asks me about the exam, I begin by explaining they should (almost) ignore the NCEES practice exam when they prepare. The practice exam hasn't really changed in the past decade. NCEES  relies on people assuming, erroneously, that the real exam will be like the practice exam and thus being unprepared. 

 

[cal91]

Cal 91 I would be curious to know how much effort was spent studying for the exam. There is always a different approach to solve a problem. 

No tabs has a steep cost to the time spent. Not sure if it is reasonable. Finding the right balance is what I was suggesting. Right now, there is too much expectation of this triggered primarily by the am questions. Pm questions, not so much. 

I think that everyone needs to study differently. For example... in college, I had several classes where class attendance was not required, and the class was only a lecture. I skipped 80-90% of those classes. (3 classes a week * 14 weeks = 42 classes,  I'd have only gone maybe 5 to 10 times.) This is because I am a hands on learner. Not a sit down and watch/listen learner. Instead of going to class, I studied the texts example problems and studied the material on my own while I did the homework. My wife is opposite, she gains the most out of having someone explain to her rather than working it out on her own.  

I've also never tabbed my books. I always have thought that if books needed tabs to be easily navigable, then they would come with tabs. Instead they come with a table of contents and an index. For me I've always felt time tabbing books is not time well spent. I have all the navigation I need through the TOC and index, and my time is better spent learning the material. Obviously that is different for everyone.   I also don't like the chaotic, messy look of tabbed books. The tabs get crumpled, and a book with a bunch of tabs kind of stresses me out. It does something for me mentally to work with tidy looking books.

I did not take a class to study for the SE exam. All I did was learn the standards, and do example problems. I spent roughly 80 hours studying for the exam. But I do seismic structural engineering for a living, so take that into account as well. I'm in ASCE7 and the steel manual every day at work.

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

I think that everyone needs to study differently. For example... in college, I had several classes where class attendance was not required, and the class was only a lecture. I skipped 80-90% of those classes. (3 classes a week * 14 weeks = 42 classes,  I'd have only gone maybe 5 to 10 times.) This is because I am a hands on learner. Not a sit down and watch/listen learner. Instead of going to class, I studied the texts example problems and studied the material on my own while I did the homework. My wife is opposite, she gains the most out of having someone explain to her rather than working it out on her own.  

I've also never tabbed my books. I always have thought that if books needed tabs to be easily navigable, then they would come with tabs. Instead they come with a table of contents and an index. For me I've always felt time tabbing books is not time well spent. I have all the navigation I need through the TOC and index, and my time is better spent learning the material. Obviously that is different for everyone.   I also don't like the chaotic, messy look of tabbed books. The tabs get crumpled, and a book with a bunch of tabs kind of stresses me out. It does something for me mentally to work with tidy looking books.

I did not take a class to study for the SE exam. All I did was learn the standards, and do example problems. I spent roughly 80 hours studying for the exam. But I do seismic structural engineering for a living, so take that into account as well. I'm in ASCE7 and the steel manual every day at work.

Well, when I started this journey, I'd been out of college for about a dozen years. While I was at the top of my class in college, I never bothered to learn special seismic detailing and it wasn't even offered at alma mater. I sat down to the lateral exam after studying the NCEES practice exam and trying to master the concepts on it and I was severely under-prepared for what I saw. I've never seen an seismic design category over C though. I would estimate I've had well over 400 hours of study for the lateral exam and probably another 100 or so hours in the gravity. A large part of the intensive study came after I failed lateral the first time. I felt fairly well prepared for gravity and I am good at solving problems testing my logical capabilities as far as analysis and mathematics are concerned, but I have the memory of a goldfish and generally can't remember which codes state what. The vertical SE really falls along those lines, too. If you know analysis fairly well, all you really need are a few code provisions and material properties. On the other hand, I felt like the lateral exam dug into portions of the code the sun doesn't shine on. I can honestly say that I had never opened the AISC seismic design manual or seismic chapter of the  ACI 318 before the lateral exam.  The only good thing I can say from all of the study, is that I have been through every one of the major codes at least once and can generally call out provisions on the spot (even if I don't know where they came from). All that to say, for me at least, tabs are an essential part of the process and there is no way I would have possibly remembered where everything was without them. My mind just won't function well enough with that level of recall. Prime example as I'm speaking. The AISC 14th ed. has a section that shows the cold formed steel screw equations for fastening into thin walled HSS. I don't know whether this is under connections, bolts, or the shear sections though. My mind associates all three with likely places, but the section is only under one. I should probably tab that. Now I'm thinking about the song "Tap That," but with "Tab that," instead. I feel like someone with musical talent should write a parody song to the same beat about the SE exams and post to YouTube. I'd subscribe.

 

[cal91]

Prime example as I'm speaking. The AISC 14th ed. has a section that shows the cold formed steel screw equations for fastening into thin walled HSS. I don't know whether this is under connections, bolts, or the shear sections though. My mind associates all three with likely places, but the section is only under one. I should probably tab that. Now I'm thinking about the song "Tap That," but with "Tab that," instead. I feel like someone with musical talent should write a parody song to the same beat about the SE exams and post to YouTube. I'd subscribe.

Wow, I've actually never seen this. I wouldn't have thought the steel manual would have cold formed steel screw equations, since those are covered in AISI. I'm looking for it but can't find it. It's in the AISC 14th ed. steel construction manual? Or in the specification? 

 

[YAZRABADI]

Wow, I've actually never seen this. I wouldn't have thought the steel manual would have cold formed steel screw equations, since those are covered in AISI. I'm looking for it but can't find it. It's in the AISC 14th ed. steel construction manual? Or in the specification? 

I believe he is referring to chapter 7 of the AISC 360, equations 7-16,7-17, and 7-18 (page 7-15). 

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Wow, I've actually never seen this. I wouldn't have thought the steel manual would have cold formed steel screw equations, since those are covered in AISI. I'm looking for it but can't find it. It's in the AISC 14th ed. steel construction manual? Or in the specification? 

I believe he is referring to chapter 7 of the AISC 360, equations 7-16,7-17, and 7-18 (page 7-15). 

@cal91, YAZRABADI is correct. It's listed under bolts. I'll forget it again and the bolts section will be the last place I check.

 

[cal91]

@cal91, YAZRABADI is correct. It's listed under bolts. I'll forget it again and the bolts section will be the last place I check.

Oh, cool. One less reason to pull out my AISI.

 

[tj_PE]

Now I'm thinking about the song "Tap That," but with "Tab that," instead. I feel like someone with musical talent should write a parody song to the same beat about the SE exams and post to YouTube. I'd subscribe.

I hope they start playing it when we walk out the exam and errbody gets turnt

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Ok everyone. First, you probably didn't even know you needed this. Second, you're welcome...

@tj_PE @cal91 this one is for you guys. Adderall is a helluva drug.

I see that beam, does it make L over one-eighty?
I see it creepin', oh yeah it’s deflecting real slow
We could probly’ fix it with some cabling and a King pos’ (post)
Yeah, I bet that would make it meet design co’ (code)
Oh no, here comes the proctor
Walking back to watch me

Tab that, NDS chapter four
Tab that, ACI and more
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Tab that, live loads on the floor
Tab that, diaphragm chord
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh

Up real early, ready to go test now
Pull up in the parking lot shoving my biscuit down
Examinees got their suitcases packed now
Steel beam bearing on a grout pack now!
It’s temperature loaded and oh god I don’t know how!?! (ooh)
I see it expand and contract now
I can’t find tha’ chapter, I’ll just have to put my best guess down
Next one’s NDS, at least I’ve read that now!

I see beams creepin', oh they’re deflecting real slow
We could probly’ fix em with some cabling and a King pos’
Yeah, I bet that would make em meet design co’
Oh no, here comes the proctor
Walking back to watch me

Tab that, Lateral Force
Tab that, Omega and more
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Tab that, Construction type 4
Tab that, Masonry anchor (long o)
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oooh

Ooh, another OCB frame there
They better hang on when I throw this seismic on
Superscript code exception and then increase it
Past its SDC limit

Euler, Bernoulli, and Newton’s laws
The way they interact determines bearing walls
Better check both orthogonals
Tryin' to hold my pee back through my drawers
Hands up, hope the proctor saw
Creeps up behind me, she's like "YOU'RE -"
I'm like, "Yeah, I know, let's cut to the chase"
I gotta hit the head then get back to my place
Plus from the restroom to the test room, it's like a mile away
Testing center’s like a palace, shall I say
Now I'm in the index trying to think of that equation’s name
Flipping through the words, but they all look the same!

I see beams creepin', oh they’re deflecting real slow
We could probly’ fix em with some cabling and a King pos’
Yeah, I bet that would make em meet design co’
Oh no, here comes the proctor
I hope my watch don't beep

Tab that, interaction, of course
Tab that, buckling and more
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Tab that, point load over a door
Tab that, connections to supports
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oooh

A big truck is rollin' right across the midspan
Bridge is checked for fatigue combinations
Girders just a bowin’, big truck a rollin'
Soon I'll be through after finishing this problem on masonry
Oh lord, I need a minimum of three!
NCEES please pass me
C’mon now, I wanna be an SE!

I see beams creepin', oh they’re deflecting real slow
We could probly’ fix em with some cabling and a King pos’
Yeah, I bet that would make em meet design co’
Oh no, here comes the proctor
Walking back to watch me

Tab that, confined concrete core
Tab that, Risk Category 4
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oooh
Tab that, even when you’re bored
Tab that, then tab some more
Tab that, 'till you get sore
Tab that, oh-oooh

 

[tj_PE]

Oh

 

[tj_PE]

My

 

[tj_PE]

God

 

[tj_PE]

I just proposed

 

[Stardust]

I just proposed

to WHOM?

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Future SE is it safe to say that you're not spending your time studying for the fall exam? IE confident with the results of this round! 

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Future SE is it safe to say that you're not spending your time studying for the fall exam? IE confident with the results of this round! 

If I didn't pass, which I wholeheartedly believe I did after taking EET Lateral, I am taking a break anyway. I've got a few years before my vertical pass runs out. I just wanted to have some fun and iterations of that song stuck in my head throughout the day due to a previous comment.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

If I didn't pass, which I wholeheartedly believe I did after taking EET Lateral, I am taking a break anyway. I've got a few years before my vertical pass runs out. I just wanted to have some fun and iterations of that song stuck in my head throughout the day due to a previous comment.

The effort was well appreciated  Makes waiting a little less painful.

 

[cal91]

Haha wow. Impressive in a way only engineers would appreciate. Haha love the part about the bathroom. Literally the most stressful part of the exam. Now I can relate to my 3 year old son that Dad gets stressed out about going on the potty too.